0:00:03 So this is actually a company that I’ve, I’ve wanted to invest in for so long.
0:00:05 If you’re doing this, like, please just email me.
0:00:18 All right. So I wanted to have you on because you are one of my healthiest buddies.
0:00:24 Last time you were on, I think you’ve been on three times already. You didn’t get into a lot
0:00:28 of the ideas because we were just like peppering you with so many questions and I wanted to be more
0:00:34 focused. I think I asked you what are five or six like interesting health companies or health trends
0:00:40 that you’re interested in investing in. And you hit me back with a very detailed list in a very
0:00:45 short amount of time. So clearly, you are like already thinking and acting on a lot of these
0:00:49 things. Can we go through each of them? And you just tell me what they are because I’m crazy
0:00:57 fascinated. Because like, for the listener, you told me in 2014 or 15, that you were quitting
0:01:02 tech, like you had a software company, and you were going to launch a bone broth company.
0:01:09 And I was like, Oh, man, like you’re like, you’re decided to throw your life away. That sucks. Like
0:01:14 you were you were going to be one of the greats. And then it just came out in Forbes, I think.
0:01:21 Or was it Forbes? You had this amazing feature about your company, Kettle and Fire and how you
0:01:26 surpassed 100 million in annual revenue. And it was amazing. And I’m like, you definitely won. And I
0:01:30 read the article, by the way, and I texted like five friends. And I’m like, Justin does everything the
0:01:37 right way. By the way, did I get that right? You guys, you’re at 100 million run rate or revenue?
0:01:41 Yeah, north north of that. Yeah. And you said something amazing. I think you said we’re going
0:01:47 to what did you say we’re gonna be the best operating e commerce company in America? Is that right?
0:01:54 Yeah, I mean, basically, like, there are most of the big public big food companies were started pre 1900.
0:01:59 And so a lot of these companies are very, very bloated. They’re large, you know, they’ve been around.
0:02:04 Frankly, I think many of them are poisoning people. And then paying lobbyists and other sort of opposition
0:02:09 research groups to make sure that like soda doesn’t get removed from food stamps and all these sorts of
0:02:14 things. And so I think these are just generally bad actors. And I think that there’s a huge opportunity
0:02:19 to both out innovate these big CPG companies and also just run a better business. Like I guarantee no one
0:02:26 in, you know, Battle Creek, Michigan, working at Kellogg’s is looking at like, how do we use AI to automate a
0:02:30 lot of our workflows and process and things like that? Whereas like, that’s something we have live work
0:02:36 extremes going in kettle and fire to figure out like, how do we apply the craziest technology,
0:02:41 you know, move like leap forward of, you know, certainly my life, certainly my lifetime, to just
0:02:46 running the best possible company that we can. And I think it’s working so far, we have like 34 people
0:02:50 for, you know, for our size of business, which is quite good scale.
0:02:52 You have only 34 employees?
0:02:52 Yeah.
0:02:57 Wow. Is it wildly profitable? Or is it working its way to be wildly profitable?
0:03:01 No, we’re profitable. I mean, one of the things that I’m very proud of is like, we’ve raised
0:03:07 only $10 million in primary capital since starting the company. And so it’s been pretty capital
0:03:11 efficient. And, you know, we’ve been focused on building the trend, but also building a good
0:03:13 business since we started it like nine years ago.
0:03:18 Damn. That’s awesome that you have proven me and I’m sure many other people wrong. And you’ve,
0:03:22 you’ve been early on a bunch of stuff. All right, so let’s dive deep. What’s the first one you want
0:03:22 to talk about?
0:03:28 Yeah. So first one I want to talk about is, I think that, you know, there are, there’s this
0:03:32 huge, huge macro trend where all people are talking about Maha, they’re talking about seed oils,
0:03:33 talking about all these things.
0:03:35 What’s Maha? Make America healthy?
0:03:36 Make America healthy again.
0:03:36 Okay.
0:03:40 We’re talking about all these things about fixing the chronic disease crisis in the U.S.
0:03:47 And I think that health trends specifically for dogs and other pets, like tend to lag a couple
0:03:52 years behind humans. Like basically a couple of years ago, you know, you saw Blue Apron,
0:03:57 HelloFresh, a bunch of these companies launch. And then a couple of years beyond that, Farmer’s
0:04:02 Dog, a like fresh dog food delivery kind of company launches. And I think there are well over a hundred
0:04:08 or 200 million in revenue at this point. It’s crazy. And I basically think that you can look at the
0:04:12 U.S. chronic disease crisis, obesity rates, inflammation, cancer, autoimmune, all these
0:04:18 things. The same thing is happening in dogs. Like something like one in four dogs are going to get
0:04:24 cancer at this point. This is like unique. It’s new. Cancer rates among dogs are rising. And again,
0:04:29 this is because dogs, like humans, exist in an environment that is actively poisoning them. Like
0:04:35 kibble is total trash and it is literally making dogs sick. And so I think that there are a lot of these
0:04:40 health trends that like people are getting into, uh, that you’re going to see become popular now
0:04:46 and in two to three, four years are going to be popular for, for pets, especially because now it’s
0:04:51 something like, I think that millennials or Gen Z, like literally have more dogs than babies or something
0:04:57 like that. The market is growing incredibly quickly. Although I don’t have a dog, but, uh, I think there’s
0:05:04 like a lot, a lot of gold in that sort of like take human health thing and apply it to a dog,
0:05:09 like health product. Is this true? You say here that, uh, in some cities there’s more dogs and babies.
0:05:14 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s certainly true. Like the younger, the younger you go.
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0:05:50 for free. Uh, the kibble thing is interesting. I, um, I had a dog for 15 years. He was my best friend
0:05:56 and his last five years of life, it hit me where I was giving him. So when I first got him, I was poor.
0:06:02 So I would like buy the cheapest dog food and then I got, you know, I could afford like whatever they
0:06:06 tell you, you know, like the shtick they tell you is like only buy something where it says like
0:06:10 chicken on the first ingredient, who knows if that’s true or not, but that’s the more expensive
0:06:15 thing. And then I was like eating kibble, like dry dog food. That’d be, it would be sort of like
0:06:20 feeding me potato chips every day. Do you know what I mean? Like, and like people’s dogs are,
0:06:24 you know, what do you do when you have a dog and you eat dinner? They all come in obsessed over you
0:06:29 and you like yell at them. And I’m like, if you gave me refried beans for every single meal,
0:06:34 of course, I’m going to want, like be desperate for any new food. It’s kind of insane,
0:06:40 right. That we would feed them the same thing. And it’s like a process dried thing that doesn’t
0:06:46 expire. Totally. It’s insane, right? It’s totally insane. And you look at the ingredient, it’s like
0:06:50 full of trash, full of artificial ingredient, you know, like all of the stuff that people are trying
0:06:55 to remove from their diets. We basically put in kibble and feed the dogs for every single meal.
0:06:59 For every meal. I remember like my in-laws have a dog and he comes over and they’re like, oh,
0:07:02 don’t give them table food. I don’t want him to be unhealthy. I’m like, I don’t know,
0:07:06 man. I feel like this asparagus and chicken might be all right.
0:07:14 100%. And we had Kevin Rose on the podcast and he had funded a company called dogagingproject.org.
0:07:20 And I believe what they are doing, the whole premise is that for some reason, I believe it was because
0:07:24 a lot of times you don’t want to see your, you’re willing to suffer or you’re willing to let your
0:07:28 family suffer oftentimes more than you’re willing to let your dog suffer. And the premise,
0:07:34 but at the same time, you’re willing to experiment more. And so the premise was that they had there,
0:07:38 what’s the drug that is a longevity drug that starts with an R?
0:07:39 Rapamycin.
0:07:46 Yes. I believe they were doing, they were selling this to dog owners. And what they found was like,
0:07:50 I guess there’s a huge correlation between what we can do with dogs and what will eventually do with
0:07:53 humans, like you’re suggesting. And they have noticed that they have gotten dogs to live longer.
0:07:58 And their premise is we are going to start here and then eventually go there to humans. And so,
0:08:00 yeah, the people agree with you.
0:08:06 Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that they’re looking at it as like, you know, drug, uh, and then we’ll
0:08:10 expand dog longevity and then we’ll move into humans. I think what, I think that like the business
0:08:15 opportunities exist looking backwards. Like everyone is talking about water cleanliness and water
0:08:19 filtration and stuff like this. And yet when they go to feed their dog, they like put their bowl under
0:08:25 the sink and the dog gets a load of like whatever toxins, alcohol, not alcohols, uh, chlorine, like,
0:08:30 you know, all of these sorts of things. And like, that’s its daily water source. Um, and I think
0:08:35 that there’s all of these things where like, why is there not a reasonably sized company just doing
0:08:41 like Aurora, like a really, you know, R O R R A, like a really high end water filter, uh, but geared
0:08:45 towards dogs or something like that. I don’t know. I think like dog saunas and dog, dog cold plunges
0:08:50 is probably a little too far, but certainly I think that, uh, there’s like a bunch of peptides
0:08:55 supplements, you know, water filtration, things like that, that even like doing dog kennels and
0:09:00 things like this with more natural materials that probably would do quite well for people who already
0:09:05 think and view the world through the health lens and have not yet begun the process of applying that
0:09:11 lens to their health or to their pets. Can you tell me what light labs is? That’s amazing.
0:09:15 I looked at the website. It seems like this might, this is your brother’s thing. It might
0:09:20 be bigger than everything you guys have done. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I hope so. I mean, so my brother
0:09:26 and I, we started kettle and fire together and we grew it. And after some period of time, he stepped
0:09:30 back from the business. And so his new business, which he started last year is called light labs.
0:09:37 And what they’re doing is basically there are so many toxins and other sorts of like crap in our food
0:09:42 supply chain and a kettle and fire. We spend almost half a million dollars a year testing all of the
0:09:47 batches that we’re making, uh, of bone broth to make sure that like, there’s no glyphosate, there’s
0:09:53 no PFAS, there’s no phthalates, like all these sorts of things. And so we, as a company spend a lot of
0:09:57 money and a lot of energy, making sure that our supply chain is clean, but we’re making sure that it’s
0:10:02 clean of stuff that you can’t see as a consumer yet. You probably care about. And so what light labs is
0:10:08 doing is they’re basically building a lab testing, toxin testing company, like a modern one for consumer
0:10:14 brands, like kettle and fire, where they do two things. Like they will test for nutrition, nutrition
0:10:20 fact panel, uh, run the normal, like heavy metals testing, things like that. But they also do a longer
0:10:27 tail of rarer tests like phthalates, PFAS, glyphosates, pesticides, things like that. And then once they run these
0:10:34 tests, they actually expose it and push the most recent versions of a brand’s lab tests to both their
0:10:39 website, or if you’re sold mostly in retail, the goal is to get like a QR code that a consumer can scan
0:10:45 and see like, what is kettle and fire’s most recent lab tests show around like PFAS and other sorts of
0:10:50 exposures. So I think this is like one of the most interesting things happening in the health world
0:10:56 right now is this broad push towards transparency and like getting a bunch of these things, microplastics,
0:11:02 satellites, whatever that people know are bad, but don’t have visibility into like bringing
0:11:07 transparency, transparency to that food system, which then creates the incentive and energy to make change.
0:11:09 So that’s kind of what he’s doing.
0:11:13 I have a ton of questions on this. Okay, so you and I lived in Austin together. And then before that,
0:11:19 we lived in San Francisco together, both very much like bubble cities where Austin’s like, you know,
0:11:24 very health conscious and particularly our friend group is very health conscious. And then San Francisco
0:11:31 was like, you know, the on the forefront of a lot of tech. Do people where I’m from in Missouri,
0:11:35 where you’re from and PA, do they care about any of this stuff?
0:11:42 Not right now. But but I think that that’s not like not 100% of people have to care for this to
0:11:48 make sense. Like what is undoubtedly true is people are spending more time and energy focusing on sourcing
0:11:53 toxin reduction, they’re spending more money at, you know, companies like Whole Foods on brands like
0:11:58 kettle and fire on their health in general. And I think that this is one of the things that people
0:12:03 are going to start caring about when they shop. And like the minute that, yes, it may not be like people,
0:12:08 you know, where my family’s from, where your family’s from, they may not be asking about phthalate
0:12:13 load in, you know, their hot dogs that they’re eating or something like that. But some percentage of people
0:12:18 will, and you only need a small increase in order for there to be demand from the brand and consumer
0:12:25 side to, you know, to basically have supply chains and agricultural resources, ranching, like all these
0:12:31 practices that incorporate and think about toxin exposure, pesticide load, and the like. And so I
0:12:36 think Light Labs is the type of company that I’m super bullish on bringing transparency to the food
0:12:41 system. Because I think it’s just going to, like, once you bring transparency, then there’s energy to try and
0:12:43 clean up and improve the food system behind that.
0:12:49 And so this company from, I don’t know anything about this space. It’s basically like putting an
0:12:54 organic label on your food. So a food company would pay them and they would say Light Labs is a reputable
0:13:01 brand. We have proof that they’ve tested everything. We paid them money to do it. And we have a dashboard
0:13:06 as well where we can like, see where we are in the process of the testing. Is that right?
0:13:13 Yeah, exactly. So consumer brands, like we Kettle on Fire, we already have to spend money on, you know,
0:13:15 on these different sorts of tests and things like that.
0:13:16 Why do you have to?
0:13:22 Because you’re legally required to by the USDA or FDA to do nutrition facts panels, you have to do like
0:13:27 heavy metals testing, you just, there’s just a slew of tests that you have to run.
0:13:34 Yeah, by law before you can actually just sell a product. And so that that’s like a thing that you
0:13:40 already have to do. Then what Light Labs is doing is they are bringing a bunch more transparency to the
0:13:46 supply chain and making it so that you can look at, you know, momentous supplements or like any number of
0:13:52 these things and basically see, okay, beyond just metals testing and things like this, what are the
0:13:57 the other things that they’ve tested for? Oh, wow. I can see, you know, like no detectable phthalates.
0:14:02 I can see no detectable glyphosate, no detectable atrazine, like some of these other pesticides
0:14:08 that people care about. And so I think it’s bringing that, what has been like hidden in the
0:14:13 depths of these like horrible lab tests run by companies that are like 60 years old to the forefront
0:14:17 and making it influence consumers buying behavior. That makes me so bullish.
0:14:22 How big is the biggest lab business now or the couple biggest ones? And when your
0:14:25 brother was raising money or when he was just brainstorming with you on describing how big
0:14:29 this could be, or like what his dreams were in 20 years, what was he saying?
0:14:35 Yeah. So the biggest one is called Eurofins. I think it’s like an 11 or 12 billion dollar company.
0:14:35 Like in revenue?
0:14:41 No market cap. So, but I mean, it pretty closely maps to revenue because it’s like
0:14:46 a service business, you know, it’s, it’s like not a great doesn’t trade very well. So what he was
0:14:51 saying is basically step one, I think that we can build a competitor and be better than Eurofins. Like
0:14:56 you submit to a Eurofins lab, you submit an email inquiry and you get, you get a response maybe in
0:15:00 like three or four days. Uh, and then when they run your tests, they don’t communicate anything and
0:15:05 they dump like 30 PDFs on you that you have to hire someone that understands food scientists to like,
0:15:09 you know, translate this stuff. It’s really like insane.
0:15:12 And you go to their website, Eurofins.com. It looks like you’re like,
0:15:20 you know, making a vaccine or you’re doing like, you’re doing like, uh, like, like some type of
0:15:28 embryo work. Like it’s like a very intimidating website. It looks like an academic site from like
0:15:30 95, you know, like it’s very intimidating.
0:15:35 Exactly. And so they’re not the type of company that is going to build an incredible product for
0:15:39 consumer brands. Uh, and they’re not the type of company that’s going to build a consumer facing
0:15:45 product. And so what he was like, my brother was thinking is he was like, wow, this is going to be
0:15:50 incredibly interesting. We can build a Eurofins competitor. We can do a better job servicing
0:15:54 CPG brands. We already know how to do that from his experience at Kettle and Fire. And then we have
0:16:01 the opportunity to build out this entire other business where we can build like consumer awareness
0:16:07 of these different toxic compounds, uh, and turn, you know, Kettle and Fire’s 500,000 a year of lab
0:16:13 testing expense into an actual revenue generating function and almost like a marketing line item.
0:16:16 Dude, this is so awesome. Does he have any revenue now, your brother?
0:16:20 Yeah. They, uh, they’ve launched a couple months ago and they’ve started to get revenue.
0:16:22 Yeah. Did he raise funding or did he bootstrap it?
0:16:25 He did. No, no, no. This is definitely the type of company you have to raise money.
0:16:28 It looks expensive to start.
0:16:33 Yes, definitely. It’s, it’s honestly, it’s the type of company that I think
0:16:40 is, it’s, it’s the perfect, like act to company. Like Nick has experienced domain expertise can raise
0:16:44 money. And when your first thing is like, Hey, we have to raise, you know, millions of dollars
0:16:49 and we’re going to write a check for like, you know, multiple millions to like buy a laboratory
0:16:53 and buy lab equipment, all this stuff. It’s tough to make that bet on like a 22 year old,
0:16:56 but on a 29 year old with some experience, like it makes more sense.
0:16:57 Is this in Texas?
0:16:59 Yeah. In Austin.
0:17:01 Wow. This is amazing. All right.
0:17:08 Wow. First of all, this is crazy. How much does, oh, and the, uh, the labels. So like,
0:17:12 if you go to McDonald’s or fast food, they put the nutritional there, which is like way more
0:17:16 challenging, I think than like an M and M or a candy bar, which is more controlled, but I’m pretty
0:17:21 sure I’ve always like believed that nutritional labels are bullshit. Like in my head, I’ve always
0:17:27 been like, it’s give or take maybe even 30% of what is presented. The calories, right.
0:17:33 Is it like, I would just, cause I weigh my food. I I’ve tracked, I’ve tracked almost everything that
0:17:38 I’ve eaten for like four years now in my fitness pal. Wow. And like, and you weigh it and I weigh it.
0:17:42 And now I eyeball it sometimes, but like, first of all, I’ve noticed a few things. One,
0:17:47 when people eyeball their food to track, they almost always overestimate or sorry,
0:17:54 underestimate by around 30%. And then if you go and buy like a, let’s just say a big Mac,
0:18:00 the degree in which they are different is huge. And there’s no way that news, those nutritional labels
0:18:04 are accurate with just the calories, let alone like whatever else, like the macros,
0:18:09 plus whatever else is supposed to be in it. Yeah, exactly. I mean, the FDA first,
0:18:14 depending on the, uh, the compound, um, or the nutrient, like they’ll have a limit that is often
0:18:20 it’s 10 plus, plus or minus 10% for sure. Oftentimes it’s upwards of like 30, 40, even 50%,
0:18:24 depending on the compound. Um, cause as you can imagine, some of these things are, are fairly
0:18:30 sensitive, uh, like potassium or iodine or things like this that are present in minuscule amounts.
0:18:36 Like it’s really hard to say exactly for every single cookie or piece of bread that you’re
0:18:41 getting or whatever, that there’s X amount of iodine in it. And so the FDA allows for, um, you know,
0:18:48 reasonably high tolerance, um, on, on some of these errors, which makes a lot of this nutrition
0:18:49 stuff even harder to figure out.
0:18:56 All right, my friends, I have exciting news for that business idea. That’s been sitting in your
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0:19:50 go to the hustle.co/bigbreak. All right, back to the pop.
0:19:56 Who, who owns the like is the certified organic? Is that a company?
0:20:03 It is a, I believe it’s a nonprofit. I think it’s Oregon Tilth is one of them. But yeah, it’s like a
0:20:10 certifying body. And I’ve always contested that that’s bullshit. Because like, I just think that
0:20:15 when you, I’ve like, I’ve seen farms where they have like an organic section and a non-organic section.
0:20:21 And like, it just seems like when you put medicine on one of them, it inevitably will get in the other
0:20:27 one. That is certainly true. The thing that is good for like, I think organic is better than nothing,
0:20:32 but it’s certainly not perfect. And I think that there is a lot of, you know, there’s a fair bit of
0:20:38 research that organic vegetables, for example, have far fewer pesticides than their conventional
0:20:42 kind of counterparts, but they still have some. But it’s not because they’re directly being sprayed.
0:20:45 It’s because of like, you know, wind, water, like all these sorts of things,
0:20:50 moving these compounds everywhere. What’s another good one? You want to do function health or skin
0:20:56 gut health? I’m fascinated by all these. Yeah. Let’s do, let’s do function. So, you know,
0:21:00 function health, superpower, like… Explain what those are. Yeah. So function,
0:21:04 function health and superpower, they’re basically companies where you can go to their website,
0:21:10 sign up, pay an annual membership fee, and they’ll facilitate a telemedicine thing where they’ll be
0:21:16 like, hey, you can go get your blood drawn at, you know, a lab or have someone come to you and you can
0:21:22 test your own blood for like, I think it’s over 190 markers. So you can get things like PFAS exposure,
0:21:28 heavy metals, testosterone, you know, insulin markers, all these sorts of things that to just
0:21:34 know, are you healthy or do you have things that you need to work on? And so I think that like,
0:21:40 I believe that function is one of the fastest growing companies in the entire Andreessen portfolio.
0:21:45 like they’re growing super, super fast. And yeah, I think they announced another fundraising,
0:21:50 but I think they announced that it got to like nine figures in revenue in like two or three years,
0:21:56 like something insane. It’s crazy. So it’s crazy. And like, there’s so much demand for people wanting
0:22:00 to understand their biomarkers, their lipids, like all these sorts of things. I think that rolling four
0:22:05 or five years, are we going to know more or less about the health of our bodies and what’s like going on
0:22:10 in our systems? It’s definitely more. And what I think function, superpower and the like are doing
0:22:15 is they’re lowering the friction for people like you and I to understand what’s going on
0:22:21 in our bodies and our blood and all that. And that information creates a ton of potential for action.
0:22:27 But why, why are, why is function growing so fast? Because I’ve used inside insight or inside tracker,
0:22:30 inside tracker, inside tracker for years. And then before that, there was,
0:22:36 I don’t know, like there, there’s, these have always been a thing. Why? Like, and now I’m hearing
0:22:42 so many people talk about function health or I’m like, I, these have been cool and awesome for
0:22:47 a decade now. Why is this one particularly awesome? I think that their marketing is great. I think that
0:22:52 the value prop is great. It’s like one price, one annual membership, get this slew of tests.
0:22:56 Uh, like if you had, if you went to your doctor and asked for the same test that function would give
0:23:00 you, it would be like, dude, they don’t let you. Well, well, so if you went to, right,
0:23:05 they either don’t let you or it would be like seven or $8,000. And so function is like 500 bucks
0:23:09 a year. I had my friend try to go get this testosterone checked and he went to the doctor
0:23:14 and the doctor was like, ah, you’re 32. You don’t, you’re fine. Like, you don’t need to do that.
0:23:19 It’s insane. The medical system is so patronizing. It’s like, they’re also, there’s people talking
0:23:23 about how you shouldn’t get an MRI or shouldn’t get your blood work done because like it’ll scare
0:23:28 you cause all these questions or scare you. And you’re like, fuck off. Like that’s such
0:23:33 an insanely patronizing thing. Yeah. It’s crazy. Like I, I, you know, I’ve, I’ve done this before
0:23:38 where I’m like, I want this tested and they’re like, but you seem perfectly healthy. And I’m like,
0:23:43 dude, just like write it on the paper. It means nothing to you. And it’s important to me. Just do
0:23:47 what I tell you to do, please. Like exactly. Like this, this literally requires nothing from you.
0:23:53 And I’m just going to learn. It’s exactly right. I think that like the medical profession writ large,
0:23:57 there’s certainly people that do good, but I think that many of them have this, like the patient’s an
0:24:02 idiot. I know everything kind of vibe. And that is, if you look at the trajectory of American health,
0:24:06 certainly, uh, I think that we need to change what we’re doing. And I think taking like health matters
0:24:11 into their own hands is a huge, huge thing. And so why this is an interesting trend to me,
0:24:16 function, superpower, and the like is for the first time, I think you were going to see
0:24:21 millions and millions of people being onboarded and understanding like what is going on in their
0:24:26 blood, uh, what’s going on in their bodies and then taking steps to optimize or improve that thing.
0:24:31 And so right now, if you take supplements, it’s like, you know, Sam, you probably take creatine or
0:24:35 something like that. You’re, you probably take it and you’re like, eh, maybe I’m a little more shredded.
0:24:39 Maybe I’m like, you know, feel better or whatever, but you probably don’t, you’re not seeing any
0:24:44 of your lab markers change. Same is true of like thyroid or cholesterol markers or lipids or other
0:24:49 things. I think as people get this information and start to retest over a, you know, six to 12 month
0:24:57 period that we are going to see way, way, way more products and services that sprout up where people,
0:25:02 where like there is demand for people who want to optimize their biomarkers. So sort of like today,
0:25:05 we have personal trainers who help you get shredded. Cause like, that’s kind of the only thing people can
0:25:10 see. I think in the future, we’ll have like apps, trainers, services, things like this
0:25:16 that are specific to Sam wants to lower his ApoB score, or Sam wants to improve his, um,
0:25:20 you know, LDL or, or something like that. Sam wants to improve his thyroid.
0:25:25 Like, I think all of these things are newly going to be marketing angles and things that people talk
0:25:27 about because they have this insight into their body.
0:25:33 This company also took off. By the way, I quit taking creatine. It, it turned me into a gorilla.
0:25:39 I got so big. Like I couldn’t, I could not like fit into clothing. Like, have you, have you taken it?
0:25:45 I have. And I stopped, um, I stopped because a friend freaked me out. He was like, everyone who
0:25:50 goes on creatine starts losing their hair, which I like didn’t experience, didn’t know about, but I was
0:25:52 like, huh, I’ll cycle off it for six months and see what happens.
0:25:54 I went on it. It didn’t happen to you, obviously.
0:26:01 No, not yet. But like, I like, like I ballooned. Like I just like got so, it just felt like I had
0:26:06 so much water. Like it was like 15 pounds in like three weeks. Uh, wow. I got huge. Like I went from
0:26:12 like 202 to like 215 or something. And then I was like, all right, I gotta go off it for like eight
0:26:19 days. And it just like all went away. Um, cause yeah, I don’t know what happened, but, um,
0:26:25 and this function health thing, these guys took off because, uh, I mean, what they did was smart.
0:26:30 They, I don’t know if Mark Hyman started it or if he’s like considered, is he like the, the Kim
0:26:34 Kardashian of skims where like, I don’t know if he had the idea or like someone else had the idea
0:26:38 and he was the face, but like partnering up with that dude, who’s got 2 million or something
0:26:45 followers. Like my father-in-law is like, whatever Mark says I do. Uh, and so like, uh, partnering up
0:26:51 with a guy like this is so much better than whatever else health influencers sell, like, uh, coaching PDFs
0:26:52 or you know what I mean?
0:26:57 Totally. Yeah. Like I, I generally think also as a side comment, this is how creators are
0:27:02 going to monetize more in the future is like owning chunks of very good businesses that rely on
0:27:07 distribution rather than just like I’m Mark Hyman and I get an affiliate fee every time I referred
0:27:10 someone to check out function health or something, you know?
0:27:15 Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. What’s this other one about, um, functional medicine doctor for your home.
0:27:21 That is, uh, amazing sounding. Explain that. Yeah. So there’s increasing awareness around how
0:27:26 your home can basically be a source of disease. Like lighting can be bad.
0:27:30 EMFs, you know, are controversial, but like, I think definitely have some health impact.
0:27:31 Wait, what’s that?
0:27:36 Uh, EMS electromagnetic frequencies, basically like your cell phone, your Wi-Fi router,
0:27:40 like all of these sort of things that, that are, that we’re surrounded by all the time.
0:27:45 Um, you know, water toxicity thing, like off gassing things called volatile organic
0:27:49 compounds, basically like the, the, you know, when you walk into a, a building that’s newly
0:27:51 painted or something like that, you can smell it.
0:27:53 Dude, do you have so much anxiety all day?
0:27:58 No, I’m pretty chill. I really believe in the like 80, 20 thing on this stuff.
0:28:03 Cause like everything you’re describing in my house is like, uh, you know, like a chainsaw.
0:28:10 And they’re just going to just rip me up. Like I saw a video, there’s this guy named carnivore
0:28:18 MD and, uh, he had a video on YouTube explaining like his house and carnivore MD is like the most
0:28:22 extreme of the most extreme when it comes to like these type of granola health influencers.
0:28:29 And like, he had like, uh, uh, a mattress that had only natural fibers, which I don’t,
0:28:34 I don’t know what a grounding thing is, but there was like this, like it’s grounding for electricity.
0:28:39 He had like a pole that went into the ground of his home and all the electricity had to like touch
0:28:43 that grounding pole. Do you, is that a thing you don’t talk about? That’s amazing. Yeah.
0:28:52 Like it was like, and then he had like, um, uh, no led light bulbs. He had no wifi. So there was no
0:28:57 wifi at his home and you had to plug in if you had to, if you wanted to use the internet on this one
0:29:02 particular area of his home, like it was crazy. Uh, and I was reading it or watching this video and
0:29:08 I’m like, that’s cool. And also this fucking exhausting. Yeah, definitely. It’s very exhausting.
0:29:12 Like when you just named all of these things, I’m like, I don’t know, man. Like I kind of would
0:29:18 just fucking kill me early. Like, you know what I mean? Like maybe I’ll just take that as a consequence.
0:29:23 Yes. So I agree. It’s exhausting. It’s a multifactorial problem. It’s like a thing that
0:29:28 people are aware of, want to fix, but don’t know where to get started. This is actually why I think that
0:29:33 a like functional medicine or like trainer that makes your, you know, your house healthy
0:29:39 is a very interesting idea. I actually invested in a company called light work. Um, it’s do light
0:29:44 work.com, but they’re, they’re basically doing this where they can send someone to your house
0:29:51 and do a test around, you know, what are the things that, what are the things that are potentially causing
0:29:56 disease or stress or other sorts of things in your home? Uh, and it’s, it’s like shocking what
0:30:04 they have found. Like they tested a, um, you know, a billionaire’s home recently and across like all
0:30:10 sorts of things like air quality, water quality, VOCs, EMF exposure, all of this, you know, it rated very,
0:30:17 very badly. Like people are not looking at the home through the lens of, of health and chronic disease.
0:30:21 And when you start to, there’s like a ton of changes that you want to make. Many of those are,
0:30:25 are, which are, you know, confusing or, uh, you know, people don’t really understand. So I think
0:30:31 that there is a huge opportunity for people to start thinking about, you know, home health, uh,
0:30:35 or housing through the lens of health. And I think that a company like light work or
0:30:41 others that brings this sort of home health test assessment, uh, almost like function, you know,
0:30:45 a function health for your house is like a really, really big opportunity.
0:30:50 So they have a list on their website. So water quality, I assume that includes putting some
0:30:56 type of filter. They have lighting, which I imagine that means like no led lights or a certain type of
0:31:03 bulbs. They have EMF, which I guess that is the grounding thing we talked about. Uh, like basically,
0:31:08 it’s somewhat, yeah, it’s, it’s more like, uh, it’s more like, are you sleeping over a wifi router?
0:31:13 Like, are you spending a lot of times in air? You know, a lot of time in areas that have a very high
0:31:17 power, uh, you know, electromagnetic frequency, dude, they’re going to get so pissed at me when
0:31:22 they found out that I sleep with the family guy playing in my ear for my cell phone when I sleep on
0:31:32 my phone. I’m going to fail this test. They have, uh, uh, air quality. So that means like,
0:31:37 do you have plants inside your house or what? More, more like our is, what is the quality of
0:31:42 your air? Mostly that’s contributed like things that are bad are some of the paints that are doing
0:31:47 off gassing, some furnishers off gas quite a lot. Uh, you know, microplastic fibers kind of like
0:31:51 floating around in the air, um, from your like carpet or something like that. So a lot of these things.
0:31:57 Do these guys make money? Uh, they just started. So the answer is sort of so far.
0:32:01 How much does it cost? Uh, it depends on the house size, but
0:32:08 anywhere it’s, it’s definitely a premium product like 5,000 or 10 grand. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s,
0:32:13 I would say that it is one of these companies that starting out is expensive concierge, like all that
0:32:19 kind of stuff over time. I think there’s a huge amount of potential, uh, especially using AI and whatnot
0:32:23 to have people kind of do a version of this assessment almost themselves, or you walk around
0:32:26 your house with a camera and all these sorts of things. And this company just tells you like,
0:32:31 change this, do this. This is probably bad. This is not, um, like there’s a, there’s a really cool
0:32:36 potential technology solve here, I think. And the guy who started this, does he have a background in this
0:32:43 stuff? Uh, yeah, he, so he got incredibly sick. He and his wife actually, um, moved into a house. Uh,
0:32:48 that house was on top of a power line. Uh, that house had like a bunch of mold issues that they didn’t
0:32:53 realize about when, when they moved in and over the course of a year, their health on like every marker,
0:32:59 energy, everything just like collapse. And so they went, you know, they went, they’re healthy. They’re
0:33:04 31. Um, they went to normal doctors, they went to all these people and only after a crazy amount of
0:33:09 experimentation and talking to doctors, they realize, wow, it’s our health that like our home is actually
0:33:15 making us sick. And that’s what kind of got them down this rabbit hole of trying to understand the
0:33:20 problem, which is that many people are getting sick, feeling low energy, feeling all these things,
0:33:24 uh, cause they’re being slowly poisoned by the house they live in. Dude. I feel whenever I hear
0:33:30 this story, I think I’m broken because like, you know, I described my family, like my, where I’m from
0:33:37 in Missouri, we’re basically, we’re, we’re just mules. Like we like, you know, you eat donuts in the
0:33:42 morning, you eat cheeseburgers and fries in the afternoon and you eat steak and pizza and french fries
0:33:46 at night with tons of beer. And you just do that every single day. And you just don’t complain.
0:33:51 And like, if you were to tell, like you tell me that these people, like if, if my house was full
0:33:56 of mold, I would just think I have allergies. It just, uh, whatever. Like, this is just how I feel.
0:34:01 Yeah. Uh, do you know what I mean? And so like, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t know, you know, to like do,
0:34:06 I’ve just thought, I would just think this is just life and I, and I wouldn’t ever complain about it
0:34:08 either. I would just be like, ah, fuck it. Like rub some dirt on it. It’s fine.
0:34:13 You’re not alone. I mean, this is like how most people respond to this. Right.
0:34:18 I just think that as people are becoming more aware of these things, were you not raised that
0:34:24 way? My mom was one of the early, like into organic people. Like we used to pour. Yeah.
0:34:28 She would buy milk in a glass drug that was like unpasteurized. So it held these nasty clumps
0:34:32 and you’d like pour it into your cereal in the morning and a clump would hit it and the whole
0:34:34 like roll would explode all over you. It was so gross.
0:34:35 Your mom’s a freak.
0:34:42 I know. At one point, I think I was like in fourth or fifth grade, the health food store where she was
0:34:46 buying all this stuff literally burned down and all the kids like threw a party. We were like,
0:34:48 yeah, no more, no more crappy milk.
0:34:54 That’s insane. And you know, it is funny as my wife, you know, as we’ve had kids started having
0:34:58 kids, it’s so funny. Once the baby comes out of you, you automatically become granola.
0:35:04 Uh, there’s a, there’s a subreddit. Have you seen the subreddit? It’s called like, uh, uh,
0:35:11 granola mom. Is it moderately granola moms? Yeah. Moderately granola moms. And, uh, yeah,
0:35:17 moderately granola moms, a place for almost hippies. And honestly, it’s like one of my favorite places
0:35:23 to get information because it’s people who are hippie, hippie, hippie, dippy, but they’re self-aware,
0:35:29 which is like why I like you. So like, I want like someone who’s like, you know, loves the extreme
0:35:34 stuff, but can also dumb it down to me. Who’s more, uh, like, you know, I don’t really want to learn
0:35:39 everything. I wish you would just tell me what to do and tell me like, what’s like experimental versus
0:35:44 what’s like actually proven. And like, you know, you like kind of can help me as a more normal consumer,
0:35:50 figure it out. And, uh, I’ve noticed that my wife, the second, you know, we were, we had a kid,
0:35:56 it was like no more Teflon, um, plastic bottles are no go, like things like that. And frankly,
0:36:02 I love it. I love it. We, we hung out with Joe Gebbia recently. Did you know, did you ever go to
0:36:11 Airbnb’s office? Yeah. So I don’t know if you remember this, but they were wild. So this was back in 2000.
0:36:17 I think they did this actually from the beginning, but they had 2000 people working out of that office,
0:36:24 something like that, maybe a thousand. And they made 100% of their own food and to, to an extreme.
0:36:31 So for example, they had air bowl, which was some type of like Airbnb Red Bull. They had, uh, so the,
0:36:37 the condiments, the ketchup, the mayonnaise was literally made on site by the staff. And so,
0:36:43 and their meats were all from butchers, uh, every single thing they had. So they had trail mix
0:36:50 where it was like nuts with like chocolate that they had made. Uh, it was crazy. And I distinctly
0:36:54 remember that. And I thought it was crazy. And then I started thinking about it. I’m like, that’s kind
0:36:58 of amazing. And we hung out with Joe Gebbia and I asked him about that. I go, why, why did you guys
0:37:03 do this? He goes, man, that’s how I was raised. Like my mom, I think, I think he grew up in Vermont or
0:37:09 somewhere, somewhere, uh, rural, New England. And he was like, my mom was basically into this stuff.
0:37:13 And I was raised doing all this. And I just thought it was good for the planet and it was good for our
0:37:19 bodies. And so we insisted at Airbnb that we did this. And so back then, you know, I don’t know how,
0:37:24 maybe Joe’s 40 something. So he was, uh, raised in the late eighties, early nineties. Back then,
0:37:30 if you did that, like your mom, you were a freak. Now, all the young, cool guys that like we follow
0:37:33 on Instagram, who we’re friends with all do this stuff. And I think it’s like pretty amazing.
0:37:40 That is so cool. You don’t remember that about Airbnb. Uh, I went there. I didn’t. Yeah. I went
0:37:44 there to like meet up with friends and then see a talk. Uh, so I only went two or three times and
0:37:49 didn’t actually get that, that level of detail. That’s so cool. It was wild. I don’t know if they still
0:37:52 have an office. I don’t know if they still do that, but during the pandemic, they had to lay
0:37:56 people off. And unfortunately the, the culinary staff was probably the first to go.
0:38:00 Yeah. That feels like the first thing that a public company, like activist investor kind of
0:38:05 yells at you. Yeah. But you know, I understand that it’s can be tough to justify when there’s like
0:38:09 no need for an office, but that was the story. It honestly, it was amazing. I tell the story all
0:38:13 the time. And I, when I saw that I was kind of on board with Airbnb even further. Cause I’m like,
0:38:16 if they sweat the details with this, they probably sweat the details with other stuff.
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0:39:08 FDIC. All right, back to the episode. All right, let’s do two or three more. You had one on about
0:39:13 skin gut health. What is that? And whenever someone says gut health, it freaks me out because the,
0:39:16 what’s it called? Leaky gut is the world’s greatest branding.
0:39:21 Yeah. So this is actually a cosmetics company that I’ve, I’ve wanted to invest in for so long.
0:39:26 I haven’t seen anyone do it. If you’re doing this, like, please just email me. My email is very easy
0:39:31 to find or ping me on Twitter. But the thing that I think should happen is like, there’s, I don’t know
0:39:38 how many hundreds of billions a year spent on the skincare kind of space. And if you look at research,
0:39:43 almost, there are certain things that work, like certainly there’s classes of peptides and things
0:39:50 like that, that I think maybe work decently well, um, from a skincare standpoint, but for most people,
0:39:55 if you’re buying any sort of skincare to look younger or whatever, it’s just like a waste of money or it’s
0:40:02 like marginally effective. Um, that way. So say that again. So your, your stance here is that skincare
0:40:08 is mostly a waste. Skincare is mostly a scam. Yeah. Yeah. Minus like a couple of things like certain
0:40:13 peptides, uh, it’s sunscreen moisturizer. Sure. If you want your skin to be like more moist,
0:40:17 but a lot of the anti-aging stuff, anti-wrinkle cream, all these sorts of things.
0:40:22 Is that a, is there one that starts with an R? Uh, well, retinol A is one of the few things that’s
0:40:27 actually, that’s actually relatively effective. It’s like all, but this is the thing. It’s like
0:40:34 basically only peptides are the things that work. That’s a peptide. Yeah. So it’s, it’s a peptide
0:40:38 things like, um, like one skin uses a peptide. Uh, there’s something called like copper it’s
0:40:43 copper GKU, I think, which is another peptide. These things seem to actually work, um, as well
0:40:50 as some compounds like methylene blue and whatnot, but other compound, like any sort of random $50 thing
0:40:54 that you’re going to buy on Amazon that is like anti-aging and uses, you know, jojoba oil or like
0:40:59 any of these things, like just frack, like just do not work. Um, or if they do, they’re so marginal,
0:41:04 it’s basically not worth doing in my opinion. Um, what does work is, and you don’t wear sunscreen
0:41:11 either, right? No, you, you, that’s one of your like bold stances, which is that I basically think
0:41:17 like most sunscreen is carcinogenic. Again, this is another thing in the, in the U S we allow things
0:41:22 like oxybenzones that are not allowed in the EU. It’s in almost every sunscreen in the U S uh,
0:41:27 is definitively carcinogenic. And so like why we encourage kids to put on, put this on and like
0:41:32 use eight hours a day. I have no idea. So do you use zinc? Um, so I use a non nano zinc oxide
0:41:36 sunscreen just for my face. If I’m going to be in the sun for like a very long period of time. Yeah.
0:41:43 Dude, just so controversial for a white guy. I know. I don’t know. Like I, I feel like I’m,
0:41:49 I’m happy with my skin. Um, so, so yeah. So the thing that I want to invest in is there is
0:41:54 a lot of research that shows the relationship and the link between gut health and skin health.
0:41:59 Uh, and so like if you have a healthy gut or if you work on probiotics or you work on like,
0:42:02 you know, drinking bone broth, doing things like this that are going to improve your gut health.
0:42:07 Generally, um, there’s research that shows that that is reflective in skin. There’s something called,
0:42:11 I think it’s called like bioluminescence basically, but there’s a way that you can measure
0:42:16 how much light someone’s like skin cells are emitting. And that improves as your gut health
0:42:21 improves, which is kind of a wild fact. How, how long is the, is the change? So like,
0:42:25 for example, I don’t have like the greatest, I, I have dry flaky skin. I just thought it was just
0:42:31 because I’m just like a super white dude. And like in the winter time, my skin gets destroyed
0:42:36 in the summertime. I’m great. But like, you know, uh, I always thought that it was just like the lack
0:42:43 of sun. Cause like, like my scalp, my scalp will get like so dry during the, during the winter time.
0:42:48 And I like need to get under the sun. Yeah. Yeah. So if I like red light chicken lamps, does that do
0:42:55 stuff? Yeah. It’s helpful. Like during winter time, I feel miserable. Like I, I like, I’m like,
0:43:02 I need like the sun to like burn off everything on my head and on my face. So if I started drinking,
0:43:06 what’s the routine, if I started doing that, how long would my skin it take for my skin to get
0:43:11 better? I bet it would take like six months, basically. It’s going to be summer by this,
0:43:17 by that time. Start now. You’ll be great in December. Yeah. Um, but I, I, I think that the
0:43:23 macro like business opportunity is people treat skincare as just a topical thing that you apply to
0:43:29 your skin, not like an expression of your gut health and skin health and all these sorts of things.
0:43:33 And so I think there is an opportunity to build an incredibly large cosmetics company,
0:43:39 um, you know, in skincare company, combining topical applied skincare. That’s actually effective
0:43:45 with gut based interventions that are going to like improve your skin from sort of the inside out.
0:43:49 And I’ve like wanted this company to exist for seven years now, but, but isn’t that bone broth? I mean,
0:43:54 what does this look like? Yeah. So I think it would be a, like a combination of specialized probiotics that,
0:43:58 um, that are geared towards, you know, improving skin health. Uh, I think it would be probably a
0:44:05 crash diet of like 30 to 60 days where you’re removing a bunch of like toxins and other inflammatory
0:44:10 foods from your diet, incorporating bone broth, and then some sort of like effective topical skincare.
0:44:15 And I think that regimen would outperform basically anything that exists in the skincare world today.
0:44:22 Do you eat any processed foods? I try not to, but like do on a weekly basis, how, how often?
0:44:30 Probably very, probably none zeroed. And yeah, one. So like that’s easy for, I understand that for
0:44:35 meals. So you probably, you do, you probably cook or do leftovers. What about for a snack? What’s a,
0:44:41 an example? Uh, I use these, actually, I just had one earlier. So it’s a Maui Nui venison stick.
0:44:46 Oh, I have one as well. I got, I got my, my, my, uh, kettle and fire, uh, collab with them.
0:44:51 There we go. Hell yeah. Yeah. Um, dude, they’re so, you guys, you guys sent me a bunch of them. I
0:44:56 think like each stick is like $3. Yeah. It’s like three or $4. Yeah. I have like a thousand dollars for
0:45:03 these at my house. Amazing. Um, so I, I do those like meat sticks. I’ll do fruit, um, couple of bone
0:45:07 broth. Like those are kind of the go-to snacks. I’ve kind of been addicted to dried mangoes recently,
0:45:11 which. But that’s a process. No, like, is that not considered, is it beef jerky is not considered
0:45:16 process? I wouldn’t consider it process. Like if you’re sourcing it, you know, sourcing it from a
0:45:20 good place, like it’s not going to have a bunch of additives. It’s basically just like meat that has
0:45:25 been dried and then some spices. Uh, yeah, I do dried mango. Where do you, I do it from whole food,
0:45:31 but the problem is, is that like, I’ll eat, I can do like a bag a day, which is like, it is a
0:45:37 problem. 800 calories. Uh, and like, it’s basically like four Cokes. Yeah. Yeah. Although I don’t know,
0:45:41 I’ve been eating like, I, there’s, there’s this interesting diet online that I’m, I’m currently
0:45:46 trying. It’s called a, the honey diet, but basically you just eat fruit and honey before noon each day
0:45:51 and then have like a high protein meal in the afternoon. Why are you doing this? Just to experiment,
0:45:58 frankly, and just see how I feel. But so far I feel pretty fucking good. And so the, the mangoes fit
0:46:04 within that diet I’ve been doing, um, my snack lately has been dates and butter. Have you ever
0:46:10 had that? No. Oh my God. It’s the great, I think I saw a carnivore MD do it. And I was like, let me
0:46:15 try this. Cause I got a sweet tooth. Like I have a very addictive personality. And when I quit drinking
0:46:19 alcohol, it totally went to sugar. So I’m always having to combat that, but I think everyone is.
0:46:27 And so, uh, uh, uh, half a tablespoon of butter in a date, it’s like the greatest thing on earth.
0:46:31 I’ll have to give it a go. Actually carnivore MD is very into this, like meat and fruits thing,
0:46:36 like honey, fruit, and meat is basically his diet. Uh, and he’s very into this. So I don’t know. I,
0:46:42 I actually think that we are, there’s a good chance that honey fruit, like we’re on the,
0:46:46 the very early stages of like people realizing that sugar is not that bad for you when it comes
0:46:51 in fruit or honey form. That’s an interesting take because I would have thought you would have
0:46:56 said the opposite, which is like glucose is glucose. No. Oh, that’s interesting. That’s
0:47:03 interesting. So you do high sugar fruit as well. Not just, this is something I’m just starting to
0:47:08 experiment with. And so like, I’m not even sure. So I literally, I got my labs done recently. Uh,
0:47:13 and then like last week started this honey diet thing. So I’m going to test again in like three months
0:47:17 and see how, see how things look. That’s pretty fascinating. I would not have thought that that’s
0:47:22 something you would do because I like, I’ve read about like bananas. Uh, Sam Korkos actually told
0:47:26 me, he said this in passing. So I don’t want to like attribute this to, cause I could have, I could
0:47:31 have be listening to him wrong, but I believe he said that a modern banana is candy. And the way it used
0:47:36 to be was like a carrot. He was like, they, they were not like this as delicious, but we’ve like
0:47:40 genetically, you know, it’s kind of like a honey Chris apple. Like, you know, like, uh, it’s basically
0:47:46 like genetically predisposed to be like, you know, way sweet. Yeah. Yeah. Like it’s, I think the new
0:47:53 apple that’s popular is called cotton candy apple. That’s funny. They have that at central market.
0:47:57 It was called the cotton candy apple. I’ll have to try it. I’ve not seen that. So like you would eat
0:48:04 that. Uh, I mean, I would experiment with it for 90 days for sure. Yeah. Like, I don’t think a lot
0:48:09 of this stuff, like, yes, if you’re optimizing for sweetness, I understand that, um, that you could
0:48:15 argue maybe it’s bad, but I think that nature tends to like keep trade-offs within a certain band. Um,
0:48:21 and so I don’t know if you’re having organic produce or whatever. Like I, I think that this
0:48:25 stuff is like, not, it’s not bad to experiment with it and just see how you feel. Do you eat,
0:48:32 uh, vegetables? Yeah. Yeah, I do. Well, Ari’s laughing at me and so, and so are you, but like a lot of,
0:48:40 some of these guys are like, I think carnivore MD in particular is, uh, on some parts, anti vet on
0:48:45 something anti-vegetable. He’s come off that a little bit. I mean, like to me, I think that you
0:48:50 just have to have a macro lens on this, which is like, what if humans been eating for hundreds of
0:48:55 thousands of years? It’s not like, you know, in, in the year 1900 year rolled around or 1970, when
0:48:59 like the chronic disease crisis really started ramping up that all of a sudden people are rampantly
0:49:04 eating vegetables and getting sick all the time. It’s like, obviously in my view, not like we are in the
0:49:09 midst of a vegetable eating epidemic that is making everyone sick. It’s like clearly like the ultra
0:49:13 processed foods that are new to our food system. And so does he have some good points? Like maybe our
0:49:19 vegetables less good than, than most people think, like I could believe that. Do I think it is a thing
0:49:24 that is like worth optimizing and to never eat vegetables? Like definitely not. Here’s one, um,
0:49:33 for some of these health trends. Um, I think that, um, polyester clothing is gonna, um, there’s gonna be,
0:49:39 I mean, there’s already a niche of people. I’m one of them where I, I don’t wear, if a clothing has
0:49:45 polyester, I, I tried always to avoid it unless it’s like, you know, like special or particularly
0:49:52 amazing where, but, but in general, it’s gotta be all natural fibers. Are you, are you on board with
0:49:57 that? Oh yeah. I mean, polyester clothing is like the number one contributor to microplastics. Basically
0:50:02 they like shed like crazy when you’re washing them. And there was, um, there’s some studies that have been
0:50:08 done around, uh, they basically took dogs and had them wear polyester underwear and their sperm count
0:50:13 went down like 60 or 70%. And then they switched them off of polyester underwear. And like, it came
0:50:20 right back up. No shit. No way. So what underwear do you wear? Do you wear underwear? Yeah. So there’s
0:50:25 a company called NADS that does like organic, um, organic stuff. There’s another company called PACT,
0:50:32 P-A-C-T. And I usually wear those. How interesting is women’s, I mean, I don’t know. Does this,
0:50:39 does this matter to women? So it’s unclear to me right now, I would say potentially, but it seems
0:50:46 like the thing that is causing the loss of sperm is like, there’s some sort of, um, electrical charge
0:50:52 thing that happens between polyester and the skin that seems to impact, um, impact like, you know,
0:50:57 sperm generation. And so it’s, it’s not clear to me yet. I haven’t like gone super deep on it.
0:51:03 How fascinating. So yeah. Pretty wild though. Right. That dog thing is crazy. So are you crazy?
0:51:08 There you go. That’s another great dog health idea, you know, dog, all or all natural dog underwear.
0:51:17 That’s insane to me. So I use, uh, ex aficionado and I loved it because it was, uh, it like would dry
0:51:23 quickly after you cleaned it and they never stretched out, but I think it is highly synthetic. Uh, almost
0:51:28 certainly. And so, but honestly, cotton underwear for the most part sucks, but there’s some companies
0:51:33 that are making like really good cotton workout gear and cotton underwear that I, I really appreciate.
0:51:39 So like, for example, what I like to do is a lot of my workout shorts, I just get sweatpants,
0:51:45 like all cotton sweatpants and I’ll cut them. Uh, but like, I’m a big fan of like all cotton workout
0:51:53 gear because Lululemon and, uh, like it has like underwear in the shorts. So your junk is just on
0:51:58 the polyester even harder. Do you know what I mean? Totally. Totally. There, there’s actually a company,
0:52:04 uh, there’s a company called Riker. I love Riker. I love their stuff. It’s so good.
0:52:11 Riker. Yeah. It’s so good. It is so good. It’s the only short company for men and they have shirts
0:52:15 and stuff too, but it’s the only, but the shorts are particularly, particularly are hard to do
0:52:20 because you like, if, uh, if a workout short doesn’t have the underwear, then you’re just kind
0:52:25 of like flopping all over. You know what I mean? So you like, but it’s hard to do with cotton.
0:52:30 Totally. Yeah. So their, their stuff is great. I really, really like what they’re doing. Um,
0:52:36 and I use their stuff for all my workout clothes. That’s great. Um, can you tell me really quick,
0:52:40 are there, I just want to know what Justin does. Are there any other, do you have any other stances
0:52:45 like this? So this is like, so fascinating to hear some of your stances that might be controversial or
0:52:51 uncommon. I feel pretty confident that like our current vaccine schedule is very much not good
0:52:56 from a chronic disease standpoint. I don’t like make any claims around autism or whatnot, but from a food
0:53:01 allergy standpoint, uh, certainly the U S is like the worst chronic disease issue and is the most
0:53:07 vaccinated, uh, and has like the, the, the most egregious vaccine schedule of any developed country.
0:53:10 So what are you suggesting spacing it out or not taking them?
0:53:15 Yeah. I basically think like fewer shots, more spaced out is like what I’m planning to give kids.
0:53:17 I wrote a very long post on this.
0:53:22 It is pretty incredible. Like for example, they give a kid a hep B shot, like literally five minutes
0:53:28 or less, like two minutes out of the womb. And I was like, well, I don’t, I don’t know if she’s
0:53:33 going to be around like someone with hep B anytime soon. So the only way you can get a hep B is through
0:53:39 sexual, you know, sexual activity and blood transfusions. And they test the mom for hep B before
0:53:43 birth. And so like, you’re just vaccinating a kid against something and the immunity wears off
0:53:47 after a decade. And also not that many people have, I don’t think hep B is like particularly
0:53:52 common. Uh, like it’s basically drug users, I believe. Totally. I, I, I mean, and the other
0:53:57 thing is like, my view is that our, our health organizations have been captured and, uh, you
0:54:03 know, by large companies. And I think like you look also the COVID MRNA vaccine was added to the infant
0:54:09 childhood immunization schedule this year. It’s like, that is not a scientific position. That is
0:54:14 purely something else is going on. Um, so I think that’s like a relatively controversial take that I
0:54:18 have, um, that I wrote a very long piece about that I think is defensible. Any other last ones?
0:54:26 Yeah. So against like the health tribe, um, I think that the, yeah, the, the fruit and sugar one is
0:54:30 probably like the biggest one that I’m, that I’m focused on right now. And then I also think that
0:54:36 this like demonization of, I think that the tribal stuff, tribalness of, of like food cultures is,
0:54:42 is something that I, I think is not, not good. Like I basically am much more into nutrient density.
0:54:46 And I think if you’re eating nutrient dense, like pizzas and carbs and all that stuff,
0:54:52 as opposed to like conventional, you know, vegetables, fruits, and meats all the time that are like
0:54:57 maximally sprayed and processed and all this stuff. Like I, I actually think that eating a bunch of carbs
0:55:01 that are from a very, very good source, uh, probably your health outcomes will be better.
0:55:06 That stuff’s like impossible to find. Like for example, in order to do that, you’d have to find
0:55:13 someone that mills their own grain or something like that. Like, like that’s like, it’s virtually
0:55:21 impossible or not virtually impossible, but it’s a job. Yeah. Yeah, it is. I very much agree. Um,
0:55:27 dude, you’re the man. Thank you. I just like, uh, you know, I text you these questions anyway. And so
0:55:32 it’s fun just to get now every time, just to pepper you with all types of questions that I have,
0:55:36 but I appreciate you. Yeah, no, this has been super fun, man. Uh, thanks for having me on as always.
0:55:42 And we didn’t even promote your company. Yeah. So my, my company, um, kettle and fire is a bone
0:55:46 broth company, which we talked about. Uh, my, my company now is called true med. We’re basically
0:55:52 making it so you can buy, um, exercise, healthy food supplements using tax-free HSA or FSA money.
0:55:56 So if you go to true med.com, you can see a bunch of the brands where you can spend tax-free dollars.
0:56:01 Um, and then if you are interested in like some of the health stuff I talk about, uh, I also have a
0:56:07 newsletter, which is Justin Maher’s sub stack. And a new podcast. True med has a podcast. It’s great. I
0:56:12 like it. Yeah. Yeah. We’re, we’re doing like a couple episodes on, you know, movement, exercise,
0:56:17 nutrient density, dude. I appreciate you. Thank you so much. God bless. Thanks for having me on.
0:56:37 That’s it. That’s the pop. Hey, Sean here. I want to take a minute to tell you a David Ogilvie story.
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