#442 – Donald Trump Interview

0:00:05 the following is a conversation with Donald Trump on this, the Lex Friedman podcast.
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0:04:43 data at Encore.com/Lex. That’s Encore.com/Lex. This episode is also brought to you by 8Sleep,
0:04:49 and it’s pod for Ultra. The night before I had a conversation with Donald Trump,
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0:05:01 through all the possible trajectories that conversation could go. But primarily there was
0:05:07 a temperature issue because the bed wasn’t cold, like it would be with 8Sleep. I just can’t
0:05:13 understate how amazing it is to have a cold bed with a warm blanket. It’s an escape from the
0:05:21 turmoil of the world, this temporary respite from the chaos, from the suffering that is life.
0:05:30 And I wonder why it is that the world I saw on ayahuasca is not the world I’ve ever seen in my
0:05:39 dreams. Where was it that I was able to go with the help of this rocket ship that I couldn’t go
0:05:46 while taking a nap? What is the human mind capable of? That’s what psychedelics make me think.
0:05:52 What are the limits of my mind? The limits of my visualization capability,
0:06:00 the limits of my cognition capability, the limits of my consciousness. I wonder.
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0:08:56 This is a Lex’s treatment podcast. To support it,
0:09:15 please check out our sponsors in the description. And now, dear friends, here’s Donald Trump.
0:09:22 They’re getting smaller and smaller. They’re getting smaller. Right? I mean,
0:09:25 people do respect you more when you have a big camera for some of this. No,
0:09:30 it’s cool. And about 20 guys that you pay a fortune to, right? All right. Okay.
0:09:39 You said that you love winning and you have won a lot in life in real estate, in business,
0:09:45 in TV, in politics. So let me start with a mindset, a psychology question.
0:09:50 What drives you more? The love of winning or the hate of losing?
0:09:58 Maybe equally. Maybe both. I don’t like losing and I do like winning. I’ve never thought of it
0:10:04 as to which is more of a driving force. You’ve been close with a lot of the greats in sport.
0:10:10 You think about Tiger Woods, Muhammad Ali. You have people like Michael Jordan,
0:10:16 who I think hate losing more than anybody. So what do you learn from those guys?
0:10:21 Well, they do have something different. The great champions have something very different,
0:10:27 like the sports champions. And you have champions in other fields, but you see it more readily in
0:10:33 sports. You see it over a weekend or you see it during a game. And you see that certain people
0:10:40 stand out and they keep, they keep standing out. But it’s there for you. It doesn’t take a lifetime
0:10:46 to find out that somebody was a winner or a loser. And so the sports thing is very interesting. But
0:10:52 you know, I play golf with different people and you have, there’s a different mindset
0:10:57 among champions. There’s really a very different mindset. There’s a different,
0:11:03 there’s a different thought process. You know, talent wise, sometimes you can’t tell the difference
0:11:11 in talent, but at the end of a weekend, they seem to win. And it’s very interesting. Like as an
0:11:17 example, a Tiger or Jack Nicholas, he was a phenomenal winner. And he does have a different
0:11:23 way about him. And Tiger has a different way about him. And Michael Jordan, and there’s never one,
0:11:27 you would think that there’d be one way Arnold Palmer was the nicest guy you’d ever meet.
0:11:34 And then you have some champions that aren’t really nice. They’re just focused on doing their
0:11:43 job. So you have, you know, there’s not one type of person. But the one thing I would say that
0:11:49 everybody seems to have in common is they’re very driven. They’re driven like beyond.
0:11:53 They don’t seem to give up easily. They don’t give up. They don’t give up,
0:11:59 but they do seem to be, you know, they have a passion that’s maybe more than people that don’t
0:12:07 do as well. You’ve said that politics is a dirty game. Yeah. It is a dirty game. That’s certainly
0:12:14 true. So if it is a game, how do you win at that game? Well, you win at that game by getting the
0:12:22 word out. And by using sense, you have to have a feeling where it’s going. You also have to have
0:12:26 a feeling of what’s right. You can’t necessarily just go what’s popular. You have to do what’s good
0:12:31 for a country if you’re talking about countries or, but you, you have to get the word out and you
0:12:35 have to just continuously, like for instance, you have a great show. You have a great podcast.
0:12:41 It’s very well watched and I’m sitting here and I do this. A lot of people see it and I do other
0:12:47 things and a lot of people see that. And I go traditional also, you know, you have traditional
0:12:53 television, which is getting a little bit older and maybe less significant, could be less significant,
0:13:03 I don’t know. But it’s changing a lot. The whole plane of platform is changing a lot. It’s changed
0:13:09 a lot in the last two, three years. But from a political standpoint, you have to find out what
0:13:14 people are doing, what they’re watching and you have to get it, you have to get on. I just see
0:13:22 that these platforms are starting to dominate. They’re getting very big numbers. I did Spaces
0:13:27 with Elon and they got numbers like nobody’s ever heard before. So, you know, this is,
0:13:34 you wouldn’t do that on like radio. You wouldn’t do that. Those numbers, no matter how good a show,
0:13:37 you wouldn’t do those numbers on radio. You wouldn’t do them on television.
0:13:41 You’ve been successful in business. You’ve been successful in politics. What do you think is the
0:13:47 difference between gaining success between the two, the two different, disparate worlds?
0:13:52 Yeah, and they’re different, very different. I have a lot of people that are in business
0:13:58 that are successful and they’d like to go over to politics and then you realize they can’t speak.
0:14:06 They choke. You know, it’s hard to make a speech in front of that. Let’s say you’re talking about a
0:14:12 big audience, but I get very big audiences and, you know, for many people, it’s virtually impossible
0:14:21 to get up and speak for an hour and a half and have nobody leave. You know, it’s not an easy thing
0:14:28 to do and it’s an ability, but I have many people that are very, very successful in business would
0:14:37 love to do what I did and yet they can’t pull the trigger. And in many cases, I don’t think it would
0:14:43 work almost for everybody. It’s not going to work. It’s a very tough thing to do. It’s a big
0:14:50 transition. And now, if you talked about people in the business and politics going into business,
0:14:56 likewise, that wouldn’t generally work out so well either. It’s different talents,
0:14:59 it’s different skills. I have somebody who wants to go into politics so bad, but
0:15:06 he’s got a little problem. He’s got stage fright. Now, he’s a total killer, but if he gets up into
0:15:12 a stage in front of people, he doesn’t do well. To put it mildly, actually. I mean, he does badly.
0:15:18 So you have to be able to make hard decisions like you do in business, but also be able to
0:15:22 captivate an audience. Look, if you’re a politician, you have to be able to speak in front of large
0:15:28 crowds. There are a lot of people who can’t do that. I’ve seen it. They can’t even think about
0:15:34 doing it. And they don’t. There are many people in business right now. I could name them, but I
0:15:39 don’t want to embarrass anybody. They’ve been talking about running for president for 15 years.
0:15:45 And they’re very big in business, very well known, actually. But it takes guts to run.
0:15:51 Like for president, I can tell you it takes guts to run. It’s also a very dangerous profession,
0:15:58 if you want to know the truth, but dangerous in a different sense too. But it takes a lot of courage
0:16:03 to run for president. It’s not easy, but you have, and you know, the same people as I do,
0:16:09 there are a lot of people that would like to run for president that are very, very successful in
0:16:13 business, but they don’t have the guts to do it. And they have to give up a lot.
0:16:19 One of the great things about people from the business world is they’re often great
0:16:26 deal makers. And you’re a great deal maker. And you’ve talked about the war in Ukraine,
0:16:31 and that you would be able to find a deal that both Putin and Zelensky would accept.
0:16:37 What do you think that deal looks like? I think the deal, and I wouldn’t talk about it too much,
0:16:44 because I think I can make a deal. If I win as president-elect, I’ll have a deal made, guaranteed.
0:16:50 That’s a war that shouldn’t have happened. It’s terrible. Look, Biden is the worst president,
0:16:55 and the history of our country, and she’s probably worse than him. That’s something that
0:17:01 should have never happened, but it did happen. And now it’s a much tougher deal to make than it
0:17:06 would have been before it started. Millions of people, I think the number is going to be a
0:17:11 lot higher when you see this all at some point iron out. I think the numbers are going to be,
0:17:15 the death numbers are going to be a lot higher than people think. When you take a look at the
0:17:21 destruction and the buildings coming down all over the place in Ukraine, I think those numbers
0:17:26 are going to be a lot higher. They lie about the numbers. They try and keep them low. They knock
0:17:31 down a building that’s two blocks long. These are big buildings, and they say one person was
0:17:39 mildly injured. No, no. A lot of people were killed, and there are people in those buildings,
0:17:46 and they have no chance. Once they start coming down, there’s no chance. So that’s a war that
0:17:50 absolutely has to get done, and then you have Israel, and then you have a lot of other places
0:17:57 that are talking war. The world is a rough place right now, and a lot of it’s because of the fact
0:18:03 that America has no leadership, and I believe that she’ll be probably worse than Biden. I watched
0:18:10 the interview the other night. I mean, it was just a softball interview. So you would like to
0:18:15 see her do more interviews, challenge more? I don’t know. I can’t believe the whole thing is
0:18:20 happening. We had a man in there that should have never been in there. They kept them in a
0:18:24 basement. They used COVID. They cheated, but they used COVID to cheat, and they cheated without COVID
0:18:31 too. But you had somebody in there, and now we have a woman that is not, I mean, she couldn’t
0:18:37 do an interview. This was a really soft interview. This is an interview where they given a multiple
0:18:45 choice questions, multiple guess. I got multiple guess, and I don’t think she did well. I think
0:18:49 she did very poorly. How do you think you’ll do in the debate coming up? It’s in a few days.
0:18:55 So I’ve done a lot of debating, only as a politician. I never debated. My first debate was the
0:19:01 Rosie O’Donnell debate, right? The famous Rosie O’Donnell debate, the answer. But I’ve done well
0:19:06 with debates. I mean, I became president. Then the second time, I got millions more votes than I
0:19:12 got the first time. So I was told, if I got 63 million, which is what I got the first time,
0:19:19 you would win. You can’t not win. And I got millions of more votes than that and
0:19:27 lost by a whisker. And look what happened to the world with all of the wars and all of the problems.
0:19:33 And look what happened with inflation, because inflation is just eating up our country,
0:19:40 eating it up. So it’s too bad. But there are a lot of things that could happen. We have to get
0:19:45 those wars settled. I’ll tell you, you have to get Ukraine done. That could end up in a third
0:19:51 world war. So could the Middle East. So could the Middle East. So maybe let’s talk about what it
0:19:57 takes to negotiate with somebody like Putin or Zelensky. Do you think Putin would be willing to
0:20:02 give up any of the regions that are already captured? I don’t know. I can tell you that
0:20:07 all of this would have never happened. And it would have been very easy,
0:20:11 because you don’t have like that question wouldn’t be asked. You know, that’s a tougher question.
0:20:16 Once that starts happening, because he has taken over a lot of territory. Now I guess they’re
0:20:24 insurgents now too, right? So it’s a little bit interesting that that’s happening and that it
0:20:32 can happen. And it’s interesting that Putin has allowed that to happen. Look, that’s one that
0:20:39 should have never started. We have to get it stopped. Ukraine is being demolished. They’re
0:20:44 destroying a great culture that’s largely destroyed. What do you think works better in those kinds
0:20:52 of negotiations, leverage of let’s say friendship, the carrot or the stick, friendship or sort of the
0:20:58 threat of using the economic and military power? So it depends on who the person is. You know,
0:21:04 everyone’s different. Negotiations interesting because it depends on who the person is.
0:21:10 And then you have to guess or know through certain knowledge, which is, you know, more
0:21:16 important, the carrot or the stick. And with some people, it’s the stick and with some people,
0:21:22 it’s the carrot. I think the stick probably is generally more successful in that, you know,
0:21:30 we’re talking about war. But the kind of destruction that we’re witnessing now that
0:21:35 nobody’s ever seen. I mean, it’s a terrible thing. And we’re witnessing it all over. We’re
0:21:41 witnessing it in all parts of the world. And a lot of things are going to get started.
0:21:46 Look what’s going on with China. Look at Japan. They’re starting to rearm now. They’re starting
0:21:52 to rearm because China is getting, you know, taking over certain islands. And there’s a lot
0:21:58 of danger in the war right now in the world. There’s a lot of, and there’s a great possibility
0:22:05 of World War Three. And we better get this thing done fast because five months with people like
0:22:12 her and him, he’s checked out. He just goes to the beach and thinks he looks good in a bathing suit,
0:22:17 which he doesn’t. He sort of checked out. Hey, look, you know, you can’t blame him.
0:22:26 That was a coup. They took it over. They took over the presidential deal. The whole presidential
0:22:30 thing was taken over in a coup. He had 14 million votes. She had no votes, not one.
0:22:38 And nobody thought it was going to be her. Nobody wanted it to be her. She was a joke until six
0:22:43 weeks ago when they said, we’re going to have to, politically, they felt they had to pick her.
0:22:49 And if they didn’t pick her, they thought they’d be a problem. I don’t know if that’s right or
0:22:53 not. I actually don’t think it’s right, but, you know, they, they thought it was right.
0:22:59 And now immediately the press comes to their aid. If we can go back to China
0:23:06 on negotiation, how do we avoid war with China in the 21st century?
0:23:12 Well, there are ways now. Here’s the problem. If I tell you how, and I’d love to do it,
0:23:19 but if I, if I give you a plan, like I have a very exacting plan how to stop Ukraine and Russia,
0:23:26 and I have a certain idea, maybe not a plan, but an idea for China, because we do, you know,
0:23:32 we’re going to, we’re in a lot of trouble. They’ll be in a lot of trouble too, but we’re in a lot of
0:23:37 trouble. But I can’t give you those plans because if I give you those plans, I’m not going to be
0:23:41 able to use them. They’ll be very unsuccessful. You know, part of it’s surprise, right?
0:23:47 But they won’t be able to help us much. So you have a plan of what to say to Putin?
0:23:51 Yeah, I know. You take office. No, I had a very good relationship with him,
0:23:56 and I had a good relationship with Zelensky too, but I had a very good relationship with Putin.
0:24:04 Tough topic, but important. You said lost by a whisker. I’m an independent. I have a lot of
0:24:11 friends who are independent, many of whom like your policies, like the fact that you’re a dealmaker,
0:24:22 like the fact that you can end wars, but they are troubled by what happened in the 2020 election
0:24:28 and statements about widespread fraud and this kind of stuff, fake electroscheme.
0:24:34 What can you say to those independent voters to help them decide who to vote for?
0:24:38 Right. I think the fraud was on the other side. I think the election was a fraud,
0:24:47 and many people felt it was that, and they wanted answers. And when you can’t challenge an election,
0:24:51 you have to be able to challenge it. Otherwise, it’s going to get worse, not better.
0:24:58 And there are lots of ways to solve this problem. Go to paper ballots and do it the easy way. I mean,
0:25:05 the paper ballots, and you have voter ID, and you have same-day voting, and you have proof of
0:25:10 citizenship, which is very important, because we have people voting that are not citizens. They
0:25:16 just came in, and they’re loading up the payrolls. They’re loading up everything. They’re putting
0:25:21 students in schools. They don’t speak a word of English, and they’re taking the seats of people
0:25:31 that are citizens of our country. So, look, we have the worst border in the history of the world.
0:25:36 We have coming into our country right now millions and millions of people
0:25:40 at levels that nobody’s ever seen. I don’t believe any country’s ever seen it.
0:25:46 And they would use sticks and stones not to make it happen, not to let it happen. We don’t do
0:25:51 anything. And we have a person who is the border czar, who now said she wasn’t really the border
0:25:58 czar, but she was the border czar, but she was in charge of the border. And we have her, and she’s
0:26:05 saying very strongly, “Oh, I did such a good job. She was horrible, horrible. The harm she’s done.”
0:26:11 But we have people coming in from other countries all over the world, not just South America,
0:26:16 and they’re coming in from prisons and jails. They’re coming in from mental institutions
0:26:23 and insane asylums. And they’re street criminals, right off the street, they take them. And they’re
0:26:30 being given to our country, drug dealers, human traffickers. We’re destroying our country.
0:26:35 This is a sin what’s been allowed to take place over the last four years. We’re destroying our
0:26:43 country. And we’ll see how that all works out. But it’s not even believable. And now you see,
0:26:53 you saw in Aurora, Colorado, a group of very tough young thugs from Venezuela taking over
0:26:59 big areas, including buildings. They’re taking over buildings. They have their big rifles,
0:27:05 but they’re taking over buildings. We’re not going to let this happen. We’re not going to let
0:27:10 them destroy our country. And you know, in those countries, crime is way down. They’re taking
0:27:15 them out of their prisons, which is good because good for them. I do the same thing. By the way,
0:27:19 if I ran one of those countries, any country in the world, I would make sure that America has
0:27:24 every one of our prisoners. Every one of our criminals would be here. I can’t believe they’re
0:27:31 going so slowly, but some aren’t. But they all are doing it. And we can’t let that happen. They’re
0:27:38 emptying out their prisons and their mental institutions into the United States of America.
0:27:42 We can’t let that happen. So a lot of people believe that there was some shady stuff
0:27:48 that went on with the election, whether it’s media bias or big tech. But still,
0:27:55 the claim of widespread fraud is the thing that bothers people. Well, I don’t focus on the past.
0:27:59 I focus on the future. I mean, I talk about how bad the economy is, how bad inflation is,
0:28:07 how bad things like, which is important, Afghanistan was, in my opinion, the most
0:28:12 embarrassing thing that’s ever happened to our country. And because of that, I think Putin went
0:28:20 in. When he saw how stupid we were, Putin went in. But it was the most embarrassing moment in
0:28:29 the history of our country. I really believe that. But we left 13 dead soldiers. Think of it,
0:28:35 13 dead soldiers. Many soldiers horrifically hurt with arms and legs and everything else gone.
0:28:44 We left hostages behind. We left Americans behind. We left military equipment, the likes
0:28:50 of which nobody’s ever left behind before. Billions and billions of dollars of equipment.
0:28:54 They’re now selling the equipment. They’re one of the largest arm stillers in the world.
0:29:04 And very sad, very sad. And, you know, we were there for a long time. I was going to get out,
0:29:09 we were getting ready to get out. Then we got interrupted by the election. But we would have
0:29:14 been out with dignity and strength. We were having very little problem with the Taliban
0:29:20 when I was there because they knew it was going to be tough. I dealt with Abdul. Abdul was the
0:29:26 leader. And we got along fine. He understood. But, you know, they were shooting. They were
0:29:32 killing a lot of our people before I came down. And when I got there, I said, I spoke to them.
0:29:38 I said, you can’t do it. Don’t do it anymore. We went 18 months before this happened. This
0:29:43 horrible day happened. We went 18 months and nobody was shot at or killed.
0:29:47 What do you think that was, the character of the stick in that case in Afghanistan?
0:29:50 The stick, definitely. The threat of military force.
0:29:54 That was the stick. Yeah. It doesn’t have to be, but that was the stick.
0:29:58 Well, let me just linger on the election a little, a little bit more. For this
0:30:05 selection, it might be a close one. What can we do to avoid the insanity and division of the
0:30:10 previous election, whether you win or lose? Well, I hope it’s not a close one. I mean,
0:30:15 I don’t know how people can vote for somebody that has destroyed our country. The inflation,
0:30:22 the bad economy. But to me, in a way, the worst is what they’ve allowed to happen at our border,
0:30:27 where they’ve allowed millions of people to come and hear from places that you don’t want to know
0:30:32 about. And I can’t believe that there’s going to be a close election. We’re leading in the polls,
0:30:38 and it looks close, but I think in the end, it’s not going to be a close election.
0:30:44 What do you think is the right way to solve the immigration crisis? Is mass deportation
0:30:47 one of the solutions you would think about? Well, you’ve got to get the criminals out of
0:30:53 here fast. The people from mental institutions, you got to get them back into their mental
0:30:58 institution. No country can afford this. It’s just too much money. You look at what’s happening in
0:31:05 New York and Chicago and LA and lots of places, and you take a look at what’s happening. There’s
0:31:11 no country can afford this. We can’t afford it. And we’ve got to get the bad ones out immediately,
0:31:16 and the rest have to be worked on. It’s happened before. Dwight Eisenhower was
0:31:22 sort of a moderate president, moderate type person, but he hated when he saw people pouring
0:31:29 into the country, and they were nothing like now. I probably got elected in 2016 because of the border,
0:31:35 and I told people what was happening, and they understood it, and I won the election,
0:31:42 and I won the election, I think because of the border. Our border is 25 times worse right now
0:31:52 than it was in 2016. I had it fixed. The last week of the famous chart that I put up was exactly
0:31:59 that, you know the chart. When I looked to the right, I said there’s the chart. That was not a
0:32:04 pleasant experience, but the chart that I put up said that was done by Border Patrol. That was the
0:32:11 lowest number that we’ve ever had come into a country in recorded history, and we have to get
0:32:17 it back to that. Again, we will. Let me ask you about Project 2025. So you’ve publicly said that
0:32:21 you don’t have any direct connection to Project 2025? Nothing. I know nothing about it, and they
0:32:27 know that too. Democrats know that, and I purposely haven’t read it because I want to say to you,
0:32:34 I have no idea what it’s all about. It’s easier than saying I read it and all of the things. No,
0:32:41 I purposely haven’t read it, and I’ve heard about it. I’ve heard about things that are in there that
0:32:44 I don’t like, and there are some things in there that everybody would like,
0:32:54 but there are things that I don’t like at all, and I think it’s unfortunate that they put it out,
0:33:00 but it doesn’t mean anything because it has nothing to do with me. Project 25 has absolutely
0:33:10 nothing to do with me. You posted recently about marijuana and that you’re okay with it being
0:33:13 legalized, but it has to be done safely. Can you explain your policy there?
0:33:21 Well, I just put out a paper, and first of all, medical marijuana has been amazing. I’ve had
0:33:28 friends and I’ve had others and doctors telling me that it’s been absolutely amazing, the medical
0:33:38 marijuana, and we put out a statement that we can live with the marijuana. It’s got to be a
0:33:44 certain age. It’s got to be a certain age to buy it. It’s got to be done in a very concerted,
0:33:51 lawful way, and the way they’re doing it in Florida I think is going to be actually good. It’s going
0:33:56 to be very good, but it’s got to be done in a good way. It’s got to be done in a clean way.
0:34:00 You go into some of these places, like in New York, it smells all marijuana.
0:34:07 You’ve got to have a system with this control, and I think the way they’ve done it in Florida
0:34:14 is very good. Do you know anything about psychedelics? I’m not a drug guy, but I recently did Ayahuasca,
0:34:23 and there’s a lot of people that speak to the health benefits and the spiritual benefits
0:34:29 of these different psychedelics. I think we’d probably have a better world if everybody in
0:34:35 Congress took some mushrooms, perhaps. Now, I know you stay away from all of that stuff.
0:34:43 I know also veterans use it for dealing with PTSD and all that kind of stuff. It’s great,
0:34:50 and it’s interesting that you’re thinking about being more accepting of some of these drugs, which
0:34:55 don’t just have a recreational purpose, but a medical purpose, a treatment purpose.
0:34:58 We put out a statement today. We’re going to put out another one probably next week,
0:35:05 be more specific, although I think it’s pretty specific. We’ll see how that all goes. That’s
0:35:11 a referendum coming up in some states, but it’s coming up, and we’ll see how it does.
0:35:19 I will say it’s been very hard to beat it. You take a look at the numbers. It’s been very hard
0:35:23 to beat it. I think it’ll generally pass, but you want to do it in a safe way.
0:35:29 Speaking of marijuana, let me ask you about my good friend Joe Rogan. He had a bit of tension
0:35:35 with him. When he said nice things about RFK Junior, I think, you’ve said some not-so-nice
0:35:43 things about Joe. I think that was a bit unfair. As a fan of Joe, I would love to see you do his
0:35:51 podcast because he is the greatest conversationalist in the world. What’s the story behind the tension?
0:35:58 Well, I don’t think there was any tension. I’ve always liked him, but I don’t know him.
0:36:06 I’ve only seen him when I walk into the arena with Dana and I shake his hand. I see him there,
0:36:11 and I think he’s good at what he does, but I don’t know about doing his podcast. I mean,
0:36:19 I guess I do it, but I haven’t been asked, and I’m not asking them. I’m not asking anybody.
0:36:21 It sounds like a challenging negotiation situation.
0:36:28 No, it’s not really a negotiation. He’s sort of a liberal guy, I guess, from what I understand,
0:36:34 but he likes Kennedy. This was before I found this out before Kennedy came in with us. He’s
0:36:39 going to be great. He’s doing, Bobby’s going to be great, but I like that he likes Kennedy. I do
0:36:47 too. He’s a different kind of a guy, but he’s got some great things going. I think he’s going to be
0:36:53 beyond politics. I think he could be quite influential in taking care of some situations that you
0:36:58 probably would agree should be taken care of. The Joe Rogan post is an example. I’d love to
0:37:05 get your psychology about behind the tweets and the posts on truth. Are you sometimes being
0:37:11 intentionally provocative? Are you just speaking your mind? Are there times where you regret
0:37:16 some of the truths you’ve posted? Yeah, I do, but not that often. Honestly,
0:37:23 I do a lot of reposting. The ones you get in trouble with are the repost because you find down
0:37:29 deep they’re into some group that you’re not supposed to be reposting. You don’t even know
0:37:33 if those groups are good, bad, or indifferent, but the reposts are the ones that really
0:37:39 get you in trouble. When you do your own words, it’s sort of easier, but the reposts go very
0:37:48 quickly. If you’re going to check every single little symbol, and I don’t know, it’s worked out
0:37:57 pretty well for me. I tell you, truth is very powerful. Truth. It’s my platform, and it’s been
0:38:03 very powerful, very, very powerful. It goes everywhere. I call it my typewriter. That’s
0:38:08 actually my typewriter. What are you doing usually when you’re composing a truth? Are you chilling
0:38:17 back on a couch? Couches, beds, a lot of different things. Late at night. I’d like to do some later.
0:38:27 I’m not a huge sleeper, but whenever I do them past 3 o’clock, they criticize you the next day.
0:38:34 Trump was a true thing. Trump was a true thing at 3 o’clock in the morning, and there should be
0:38:39 no problem with that. Then when you think about time zones, how do they know that you’re in a
0:38:47 time zone, like an Eastern zone? Every time I do it after two or three o’clock, it’s like,
0:39:01 “Why is he doing that?” Truth has become a very successful platform, and I like doing it, and
0:39:06 it goes everywhere. As soon as I do it, it goes everywhere. The country seems more divided than
0:39:10 ever. What can you do to help alleviate some of that division? Well, you can get rid of these
0:39:15 two people. They’re terrible. They’re terrible. You don’t want to have them running this country.
0:39:25 They’re not equipped to run a Joe. Joe is a disaster. Kamala, I think she’ll end up being
0:39:32 worse than him. We’ll see. I think a lot now, the convention’s over with, and I see I’m leading in
0:39:37 just about all the polls now. They had their little honeymoon period, as they call it,
0:39:44 and we’ll see how that all goes. Who knows? For my personal opinion, I think you are at your best
0:39:50 when you’re talking about a positive vision of the future versus criticizing the other side.
0:40:00 I think you have to criticize, though. I think they’re nasty. They came up with a story that I
0:40:08 looked down and I called soldiers that died in World War I, suckers and losers. Who would say
0:40:12 that? Number two, who would say it’s a military people? Nobody. It was a made-up story. It’s just
0:40:21 a made-up story, and they like to repeat it over again. They know it was made up. I have 26 witnesses
0:40:28 that nothing was said. They don’t want to hear about that. Like she lied on McDonald’s. She said
0:40:36 that she worked at McDonald’s. It’s not a big lie, but it’s a big lie. They just went and they
0:40:41 checked. Unless she can show something, they don’t talk about it. The presses are going to follow
0:40:47 up with it, but I’ll keep cameraing it. She never worked at McDonald’s. It was just a cool thing to
0:40:56 say, “Hey, I worked at McDonald’s.” One of the worst was two days ago, I went to Arlington at the
0:41:02 request of people that lost their children. There will always be children to those people. You
0:41:08 understand that. That’s not politically incorrect, this thing to say. The mother comes up, “I lost
0:41:16 my child, but the child is the soldier.” Lost the child because of Biden and because of Kamala.
0:41:24 Just as though they had the gun in their hand, because it was so badly handled, it should have
0:41:28 been done at Bagram, which is the big airbase. It shouldn’t have been done at a small little airport
0:41:36 right in the middle of town where people stormed it. It was a true disaster,
0:41:45 and they asked me if I’d come and celebrate with them three years, three years. They died three
0:41:54 years ago. I got to know them because I brought them here, actually. One night, they almost all
0:41:59 came here, and they said, “I wonder if Trump will actually come and see us.” I heard that we were
0:42:05 here. I came and saw them. We stayed for four hours listening to music up on a deck right upstairs.
0:42:11 Beautiful. They were great people. They called me over the last couple of weeks, and they said,
0:42:15 “We’re going to have a reunion, our three-year reunion. Would you be able to come?”
0:42:21 It was very hard for me to do it logistically, but I said, “I’ll get it done.” I got there,
0:42:27 and we had a beautiful time. I didn’t run away. I didn’t just walk in, shake hands, and walk out
0:42:35 like people do. I wasn’t looking at my watch like Joe Biden does, and it was amazing.
0:42:41 I did it for them. I didn’t do it for me. I don’t need the publicity. I get more
0:42:46 publicity probably than anybody. You would know that better than me, but I think maybe more than
0:42:51 anybody. Maybe more than anybody that’s ever lived. I don’t know, but I don’t think anyone
0:42:55 could have it anymore. Every time you turn on television, there’s like nine different stories,
0:43:01 all on different topics in the world. As an example, you interview a lot of people,
0:43:06 good people, successful people. Let’s see how you do with this interview versus them.
0:43:10 I can tell you right now, you’re going to get the highest numbers you’ve ever had
0:43:24 by sometimes a factor of 10, but when a gold star family asks me to come in and
0:43:31 spend time with them, and then they said, “Sir, we did a ceremony,” and then we went down to the
0:43:39 graves, which was quite a distance away. They said, “Sir, would you come to the grave?” And then
0:43:44 they said, “When we were there.” It’s very sad, actually, because these people shouldn’t have
0:43:50 died. They shouldn’t have died. They died because of Biden and because of Kamala. They died because,
0:43:55 just like if they pulled the trigger. Now, I don’t know if that’s controversial to say,
0:44:00 but I don’t think it is. Afghanistan was the most incompetently run operation I think I’ve
0:44:07 ever seen. Military or otherwise, they’re incompetent, but the families asked me if I’d go.
0:44:13 I did go. Then the family said, “Could we have a picture at the tombstone of my son?”
0:44:20 And we did. Son or daughter, there was a daughter, too. And I took numerous pictures with the families.
0:44:24 I don’t know if anybody else was in the pictures, but they were mostly families, I guess.
0:44:31 That was it. And then I left. I spent a lot of time with them. Then I left, and I get home that
0:44:41 night, and I get a call that the Biden administration with Kamala is accusing me of using Arlington
0:44:47 for publicity. I was in use, just the opposite, just the opposite. And actually, did you see that
0:44:52 it just came out? The families actually put out a very strong statement defending me. They said,
0:44:58 “We asked them to be there.” Well, politicians and the media can play those games, and you’re right.
0:45:03 Your name gets a lot of views. You’re probably legit the most famous person in the world.
0:45:10 But on the previous thing, in the spirit of unity, you used to be a Democrat.
0:45:17 Setting the politicians aside, what do you respect most about people who lean left,
0:45:23 who are Democrats themselves or of that persuasion, progressives, liberals, and so on?
0:45:33 Well, look, I respect the fact that everybody’s in there. And to a certain extent, life is what
0:45:40 you do while you’re waiting to die. So you might as well do a good job. I think in terms of what’s
0:45:46 happening now, I think we have a chance to save the country. This country is going down. And I
0:45:51 called it with Venezuela. I called it with a lot of different countries. And this country is going
0:46:00 down. If we don’t win this election, the election coming up on November 5th is the most important
0:46:04 election this country has ever had. Because if we don’t win it, I don’t know that there’ll be
0:46:12 another election, and it’s going to be a communist country or close. And there’s a lot of people
0:46:18 listening to this, myself included, that doesn’t think that Kamala is a communist.
0:46:27 Well, she’s a Marxist. Her father is a Marxist, and she’s advocating for some policies that are
0:46:33 towards the direction of Democratic socialism, let’s say. But there’s a lot of people that kind
0:46:37 of know the way government works, and they say, well, none of those policies are going to actually
0:46:45 come to reality. It’s just being used during the campaign to, you know, groceries are too expensive.
0:46:49 We need them cheaper. So let’s talk about price controls, and that’s never going to come to reality.
0:46:53 It could come to reality. Look, I mean, she came out with price control.
0:46:57 It’s been tried like 121 different times at different places over the years,
0:47:05 and it’s never worked once. It leads to communism. It leads to socialism. It leads to having no food
0:47:13 on the shelves, and it leads to tremendous inflation. It’s just a bad idea. Whenever we use
0:47:18 terms like communism for her, and I don’t know if you know this, but some people call you a fascist.
0:47:23 Yeah, they do. So I figure it’s all right to call them a communist. Yeah, they call me a lot worse
0:47:27 than I call them. They do indeed. It’s just sometimes. It’s interesting, though. They’ll call
0:47:32 me something that’s cerebral, and then I’ll hit them back, and they’ll say, isn’t it terrible what
0:47:37 Trump said? I said, oh, wait a minute. They just called me. So I believe you have to fight fire
0:47:43 with fire. I believe they’re very evil people. These are evil people. You know, we have an enemy
0:47:49 from the outside, and we have an enemy from within, and in my opinion, the enemy from within
0:47:56 are radical left lunatics, and I think you have to fight back. Whenever there’s a lot of fighting
0:48:04 fire with fire, it’s too easy to forget that there is a middle of America that is
0:48:11 moderate and kind of sees the good in both sides and just likes one side more than the other in
0:48:14 terms of policies. Like I said, there’s a lot of people that like your policies,
0:48:23 like your skill in being able to negotiate and end wars, and they don’t see the impending destruction
0:48:30 of America. You know, we had no wars when I was president. That’s a big thing, not since 78 years,
0:48:35 as that happened, but we had no wars when I was president. We defeated ISIS, but that was a war
0:48:40 that was started that we weren’t anywhere near defeating. But think of it, I had no wars,
0:48:47 and Viktor Orban, the prime minister of Hungary, said the world has to have Trump back because
0:48:51 everybody was afraid of Trump. Now, that’s what he said, so I’m not using that term, but I think
0:48:57 they respected me, but he said China was afraid, Russia was afraid, everybody was afraid, and
0:49:05 I don’t care what word they use. Probably that’s even a better word if you want to know the truth,
0:49:08 but let’s use the word respect. They had respect for me, they had respect for the country.
0:49:15 I mean, I ended the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, the Russian pipeline. Nobody else could have done
0:49:22 that. I ended it, it was done, then Biden comes in and he gave it, he approved it. So we’re defending
0:49:28 Germany and these other countries for peanuts compared to what it’s worth, and they’re paying
0:49:34 the person we’re defending them against, billions and billions of dollars for energy. I said,
0:49:40 how does that work? And we headed out with them and it worked out good and they paid hundreds of
0:49:44 billions of dollars, or you wouldn’t even have a NATO right now. You wouldn’t have NATO if it wasn’t
0:49:51 for me. As the leader of the United States, you were the most powerful man in the world. As you
0:49:56 mentioned, not only the most famous, but the most powerful. And if you become leader again,
0:50:02 you will have unprecedented power. Just on your own personal psychology, what does that power do
0:50:07 to you? Is there any threat of it corrupting how you see the world? No, I don’t think so. Look,
0:50:13 I’ve been there for four years. I could have done a big number in Hillary Clinton. I thought it looked
0:50:21 terrible to take the president’s wife and put her in prison. She’s so lucky. I didn’t do anything.
0:50:28 She’s so lucky. Hillary is a lucky woman because I had a lot of people pushing me too. They wanted
0:50:35 to, they wanted to see something, but I had, I could have done something very, but I thought it
0:50:38 looked so bad to think of it. You have the president of the United States and you also had
0:50:43 secretary of state, right? She was, but you’re going to put the president’s wife in prison.
0:50:48 And yet when I got out there, you know, they have all these hoaxes, they’re all hoaxes,
0:50:54 but they have all these dishonest hoaxes, just like they did in the past with Russia, Russia,
0:51:02 Russia. That was a hoax. The 51 different, you know, agencies or agents, that was a hoax.
0:51:08 The whole thing was a hoax. The whole, there was so many hoaxes and scams,
0:51:15 and, but I didn’t want to put her in jail. And I didn’t, and I explained it to people, you know,
0:51:22 they say, lock her up, lock her up. It doesn’t, we won. I said, we don’t want to put her in jail.
0:51:25 We want to bring the country together. I want to bring the country together.
0:51:31 You don’t bring the country together by putting her in jail. But then when I got out,
0:51:37 you know, they went to work on me. It’s amazing. And they suffer from massive
0:51:46 Trump derangement syndrome, TDS. And I don’t know if it’s curable from their standpoint.
0:51:53 A lot of people are very interested in footage of UFOs. The Pentagon has released a few
0:52:00 videos. And there’s been anecdotal reports from fighter pilots. So a lot of people want to know,
0:52:07 will you help push the Pentagon to release more footage, which a lot of people claim is available?
0:52:12 Oh, yes, I’ll do that. I would do that. I’d love to do that. I have to do that.
0:52:19 But they also pushing me on Kennedy. And I did release a lot, but people come to me and beg
0:52:25 me not to do it. But I’ll be doing that very early on. Yeah, no, but I would do that.
0:52:31 There’s a moment where you had some hesitation about Epstein releasing some of the documents on
0:52:37 Epstein. Why the hesitation? I don’t think I had, I mean, I’m not involved. I never went to his island,
0:52:43 fortunately. But a lot of people did.
0:52:48 Why do you think so many smart, powerful people allowed him to get so close?
0:52:59 He was a good salesman. He was a hailing, hearty type of guy. He had some nice assets
0:53:05 that he’d throw around like islands. But a lot of big people went to that island.
0:53:12 But fortunately, I was not one of them. It’s just very strange for a lot of people that
0:53:16 the list of clients that went to the island has not been made public.
0:53:23 Yeah, it’s very interesting, isn’t it? Probably will be, by the way.
0:53:25 So if you were able to, you’ll be?
0:53:29 Yeah, certainly take a look at it. Now, Kennedy’s interesting because it’s so many years ago.
0:53:36 They do that for danger too, because it endangers certain people, et cetera, et cetera.
0:53:44 So Kennedy is very different from the Epstein thing. But yeah, I’d be inclined to do the Epstein.
0:53:46 I’d have no problem with it.
0:53:49 That’s great to hear. What gives you strength when you’re getting attacked?
0:53:53 You’re one of the most attacked people in the world.
0:53:59 I think you can’t care that much. I know people, they care so much about everything,
0:54:04 like what people are saying. You can’t care too much because you end up choking.
0:54:11 One of the tragic things about life is that it ends. How often do you think about your death?
0:54:11 Are you afraid of it?
0:54:19 I have a friend who’s very, very successful, and he’s in his 80s, mid-80s,
0:54:26 and he asked me that exact same question. I said, I turned it around. I said, “Well, what about you?”
0:54:29 He said, “I think about it every minute of every day.”
0:54:35 And then a week later, he called me to tell me something, and he starts off the conversation
0:54:46 by going, “Tick, tuck, tick, tuck.” This is a dark person, in a sense, but it is what it is.
0:54:53 If you’re religious, you have, I think, a better feeling toward it. You’re supposed to go to heaven,
0:54:59 ideally, not hell, which is supposed to go to heaven, if you’re good. I think our country’s
0:55:05 missing a lot of religion. I think it really was a much better place with religion. It was
0:55:11 almost a guide to a certain extent. It was a guide. You want to be good to people. Without religion,
0:55:18 there are no guardrails. I’d love to see us get back to religion, more religion in this country.
0:55:22 Well, Mr. President, thank you for putting yourself out there, and thank you for talking to
0:55:28 me today. Look, I love the country. I want to see the country be great, and we have a real chance
0:55:33 of doing it, but it’s our last chance. And I appreciate it very much. Thank you. Thank you.
0:55:39 Thanks for listening to this conversation with Donald Trump. To support this podcast,
0:55:44 please check out our sponsors in the description. And now, as I’ve started doing here at the end
0:55:50 of some episodes, let me make a few comments and answer a few questions. If you would like to submit
0:55:57 questions, including in audio and video form, go to lexfreedman.com/ama or get in touch with me
0:56:04 for whatever other reason at lexfreedman.com/contact. I usually do this in a t-shirt, but I figured
0:56:11 for this episode, I’ll keep my suit and tie on. So first, this might be a good moment to look back
0:56:18 a bit. I’ve been doing this podcast for over six years, and I first and foremost have to say thank
0:56:25 you. I’m truly grateful for the support and the love I’ve gotten along the way. It’s been, I would
0:56:30 say, the most unlikely journey. And on most days, I barely feel like I know what I’m doing. But I
0:56:36 wanted to talk a bit about how I approach these conversations. Now, each conversation is its own
0:56:41 unique puzzle, so I can’t speak generally to how I approach these. But here, it may be useful to
0:56:47 describe how I approach conversations with world leaders, of which I hope to have many more and
0:56:54 do a better job every time. I read a lot of history, and I admire the historian perspective.
0:57:00 As an example, I admire William Shire, the author of many books on Hitler, including The Rise and
0:57:08 Fall of the Third Reich. He was there and lived through it and covered it objectively to the
0:57:15 degree that one could. Academic historians, by the way, criticize him for being a poor historian,
0:57:23 because he editorialized a little too much. I think those same folks criticize Dan Carlin
0:57:29 and his Hardcore History podcast. I respect their criticism, but I fundamentally disagree.
0:57:35 So, in these conversations with world leaders, I try to put on my historian hat. I think in the
0:57:42 realm of truth and public discourse, there’s a spectrum between the ephemeral and the eternal.
0:57:48 The outraged mob and clickbait journalists are often focused on the ephemeral, the current thing,
0:57:54 the current viral shitstormer of Macarean derision. But when the battle of the day is done,
0:58:01 most of it will be forgotten. A few true ideas will remain, and those, the historian hopes to
0:58:09 capture. Now, this is much easier said than done. It’s not just about having the right ideals and
0:58:14 the integrity to stick by them. It’s not even just about having the actual skill of talking,
0:58:23 which I still think I suck at. But let’s say it’s a work in progress. You also have to make the
0:58:28 scheduling work and set up the entirety of the environment in a way that is conducive to such
0:58:35 a conversation. This is hard, really hard, with political and business leaders. They are usually
0:58:41 super busy. And in some cases, super nervous, because, well, they’ve been screwed over so many
0:58:46 times with clickbait, got your journalism. So to convince them and their team to talk for two,
0:58:52 three, four, five hours is hard. And I do think a good conversation requires that kind of duration.
0:58:58 And I’ve been thinking a lot about why. I don’t think it’s just about needing the actual time
0:59:06 of three hours to cover all the content. I think the longer form with a hypothetical skilled
0:59:12 conversationalist, relaxes things and allows people to go on tangents and to banter about the
0:59:18 details. Because I think it’s in the details that the beautiful complexity of the person is brought
0:59:24 to light. Anyway, I look forward to talking to more world leaders and doing a better job every
0:59:30 time, as I said. I would love to do interviews with Kamala Harris and some other political
0:59:35 figures on the left and right, including Tim Walls, AOC, Bernie, Barack Obama,
0:59:42 Bill and Hillary, and on the right, JD Vance, Vivek, George W, and so on. And on the topic of
0:59:48 politics, let me say as an immigrant, I love this country, the United States of America.
0:59:53 I do believe it is the greatest nation on earth. And I’m grateful for the people on the left and
1:00:00 the right who step into the arena of politics to fight for this country that I do believe they
1:00:06 all love as well. I have reached out to Kamala Harris, but not many of the others. I probably
1:00:11 should do a better job with that. But I’ve been doing most of this myself, all the reach out,
1:00:16 scheduling, research, prep, recording, and so on. And on top of that, I very much have been suffering
1:00:21 from imposter syndrome, with the voice in my head constantly pointing out when I’m doing a shitty
1:00:29 job. Plus, a few folks graciously remind me on the internet, the very same sentiment of this
1:00:34 aforementioned voice. All of this, while I have the option of just hiding away to MIT,
1:00:39 programming robots, and doing some cool AI research with a few grad students, or maybe joining an AI
1:00:46 company, or maybe starting my own, all these options make me truly happy. But like I said,
1:00:50 on most days, I barely know what I’m doing. So who knows what the future holds?
1:00:56 Most importantly, I’m forever grateful for all of you, for your patience and your support
1:01:00 throughout this roller coaster of the life I’ve been on. I love you all.
1:01:08 Okay, now let me go on to some of the questions that people had. I was asked by a few people to
1:01:15 comment on Pavel Durov arrest and on X being banned in Brazil. Let me first briefly comment on the
1:01:22 Durov arrest. So, basic facts. Pavel Durov is CEO of Telegram, which is a messenger app
1:01:28 that has end-to-end encryption mode. It’s not on by default. And most people don’t use the
1:01:35 end-to-end encryption, but some do. Pavel was arrested in France on a long list of charges
1:01:44 related to “criminal activity” carried out on the Telegram platform and for “providing unlicensed
1:01:50 cryptology services.” I think Telegram is indeed used for criminal activity by a small minority of
1:01:56 its users. For example, by terrorist groups to communicate. And I think we all agree that terrorism
1:02:02 is bad. But here’s the problem. As the old saying goes, one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom
1:02:09 fighter. And there are many cases in which the world unilaterally agrees who the terrorists are.
1:02:15 But there are other cases when governments, especially authoritarian and inclined governments,
1:02:21 tend to propagandize and just call whoever’s in the opposition, whoever opposes them, terrorists.
1:02:28 There is some room for nuance here. But to me, at this time, it seems to obviously be a power grab
1:02:34 by government wanting to have backdoor access into every platform so they can have censorship
1:02:40 power against the opposition. I think, generally, governments should stay out of censoring or even
1:02:46 pressuring social media platforms. And I think arresting a CEO of a tech company for the things
1:02:53 said on the platform he built is just nuts. It has a chilling effect on him, on people working at
1:02:58 Telegram, and on people working at every social media company, and also people thinking of launching
1:03:05 a new social media company. Same as the case of X being banned in Brazil. It’s, I think, a power
1:03:12 grab by Alexandre de Marias, a Supreme Court justice in Brazil. He ordered X to block certain
1:03:18 accounts that are spreading, quote unquote, misinformation. Elon and X denied the request.
1:03:24 Then de Marias threatened to arrest X representatives in Brazil. And in response to that,
1:03:31 X pulled the representatives out of Brazil, obviously, to protect them. And now X having no
1:03:38 representatives in Brazil apparently violates the law. Based on this, de Marias banned X in Brazil.
1:03:43 Once again, it’s an authoritarian figure seeking censorship power over the channels of communication.
1:03:49 I understand that this is complicated, because there are evil people in the world.
1:03:55 And part of the role of government is to protect us from those evil people. But as Benjamin Franklin
1:04:00 said, those who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither
1:04:08 liberty nor safety. So it’s a trade off. But I think in many places in the world, many governments
1:04:15 have leaned too far away at this time from liberty. Okay, next up, I got a question on AI,
1:04:24 which I emotionally connected with. I’ll condense it as follows. Hello, Lex. I’m a programmer. And I
1:04:30 have a deep fear of slipping into irrelevance because I am worried that AI will soon exceed my
1:04:36 programming skills. Let me first say that I relate to your fear. It’s scary to have a thing that
1:04:42 gives you a career and gives you meaning to be taken away. For me, programming is a passion.
1:04:48 And if not for this podcast, it would probably, at least in part, be my profession. So
1:04:55 I get an uncomfortable feeling every time Claude, the LMI use for coding at this time,
1:05:01 just writes a lot of excellent, approximately correct code. I think you can make a good case
1:05:06 that it already exceeds the skill of many programmers, at least in the same way that the
1:05:11 collective intelligence of stack overflow exceeds the skill of many programmers, many
1:05:17 individual programmers. But in many ways, it still does not. But I think eventually, more and more,
1:05:25 the task, the professional programming will be one of writing natural language prompts.
1:05:32 I think the right thing to do and what I’m at least doing is to ride the wave of the ever-improving
1:05:38 code generating LLMs and keep transforming myself into a big picture designer versus low-level
1:05:45 tinkerer. What I’m doing and what I recommend you do is continually switch to whatever state of
1:05:50 the art tool is for generating code. So for me currently, I recently switched from VS Code to
1:05:57 Cursor. And before that, it was Emacs to VS Code switch. So Cursor is this editor that’s based
1:06:05 on VS Code that leans heavily on LLMs and integrates the code generation really nicely into the
1:06:12 editing process. So it makes it super easy to continually use the LLMs. So what I would advise
1:06:17 and what I’m trying to do myself is to learn how to use it and to master its code generation
1:06:23 capabilities. I personally try to now allocate a significant amount of time to designing with
1:06:31 natural language first versus writing code from scratch. So using my understanding of programming
1:06:37 to edit the code that’s generated by the LLM versus sort of writing it from scratch
1:06:42 and then using the LLM to generate small parts of the code. I see it as a skill that I should
1:06:46 develop in parallel to my programming skill. I think this applies to many other careers too.
1:06:55 Don’t compete with AI for your job. Learn to use the AI to do that job better. But yes, it is scary
1:07:04 and some deep sort of human level, the threat of being replaced. But at least I think we’ll be okay.
1:07:12 All right, next up I got a very nice audio message and question from a gentleman who is 27
1:07:17 and feeling a lot of anxiety about the future. Just recently he graduated with a bachelor’s
1:07:22 degree and he’s thinking about going to grad school for biomedical engineering. But there is a lot
1:07:27 of anxiety. He mentioned anxiety many times in the message. It took him an extra while to get
1:07:33 his degree. So he mentioned he would be 32 by the time he’s done with his PhD. So it’s a big
1:07:39 investment. But he said in his heart he feels like he’s a scientist. I think that’s the most
1:07:45 important part of his message, of your message. By the way, I’ll figure out how to best include
1:07:51 audio and video messages in future episodes. Now on to the question. So thank you for telling me
1:07:56 your story and for submitting the question. My own life story is similar to yours. I went to
1:08:04 Drexel University for my bachelor’s, master’s and doctorate degrees. And I took a while just as
1:08:11 you are doing. I did a lot of nonstandard things that weren’t any good for some hypothetical career
1:08:18 I’m supposed to have. I trained and competed in Judo and Jiu Jitsu for my entire 20s, got a
1:08:25 black belt from it. I wrote a lot, including a lot of really crappy poetry. I read a large amount
1:08:31 of non-technical books, history, philosophy and literature. I took courses on literature and
1:08:35 philosophy that weren’t at all required for my computer science and electrical engineering
1:08:43 degrees, like a course on James Joyce. I played guitar in bars around town. I took a lot of
1:08:49 technical classes, many, for example, on theoretical computer science, that were way more than were
1:08:54 needed for the degree. I did a lot of research and I coded up a bunch of projects that didn’t
1:09:03 directly contribute to my dissertation. It was pure curiosity and the joy of exploring. So
1:09:11 like you, I took the long way home, as they say, and I regret none of it. Throughout that,
1:09:15 people around me and even people who love me wanted me to hurry up and to focus,
1:09:24 especially because I had very little money. So I had a sense like time was running out for me to
1:09:31 take the needed steps towards a reasonable career. Just like you, I was filled with anxiety and I
1:09:37 still am filled with anxiety to this day. But I think the right thing to do is not to run away
1:09:43 from the anxiety, but to lean into it and channel it into pursuing with everything you got, the
1:09:49 things you’re passionate about. As you said, very importantly, in your heart, you know you’re a
1:09:55 scientist. So that’s it. You know exactly what to do. Pursue the desire to be a scientist with
1:10:02 everything you got. Get to a good grad school, find a good advisor, and do epic shit with them.
1:10:07 And it may turn out in the end that your life will have unexpected chapters,
1:10:12 but as long as you’re chasing dreams and goals with absolute unwavering dedication,
1:10:19 good stuff will come of it. And also, try your best to be a good person. This might be a good place
1:10:27 to read the words if by Roger Kipling that I often return to when I feel lost and I’m looking for
1:10:34 guidance on how to be a better man. If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs
1:10:39 and blame it on you, if you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, but make allowance for
1:10:45 their doubting too. If you can wait and not be tired by waiting or being lied about, don’t deal
1:10:52 in lies or being hated, don’t give way to hating and yet don’t look too good, no talk too wise.
1:10:58 If you can dream and not make dreams your master, if you can think and not make thoughts your aim,
1:11:03 if you can meet with triumph and disaster and treat those two imposters just the same,
1:11:10 if you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken twisted by naves to make a trap for fools,
1:11:17 or watch the things you gave your life to broken and stoop and build them up with worn out tools.
1:11:24 If you can make one heap of all your winnings and risk it on one turn of pitch and toss
1:11:31 and lose and start again at your beginnings and never breathe a word about your loss.
1:11:38 If you can force your heart and nerve and sin you to serve your turn long after they’re gone
1:11:45 and so hold on when there’s nothing in you except the will which says to them, hold on.
1:11:52 If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue or walk with kings or lose the common touch,
1:11:59 if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you, if all men count with you but none too much.
1:12:06 If you can fill the unforgiving minute with 60 seconds worth of distance run,
1:12:13 yours is the earth and everything that’s in it and which is more you’ll be a man, my son.
1:12:26 Thank you for listening and see you next time.
1:12:27 you
1:12:28 you
1:12:29 you
1:12:30 you
1:12:30 you
1:12:33 (gentle music)
1:12:35 you