AI transcript
0:00:04 A listener reached out and said, you got to get this woman on the show. She’s got a really
0:00:08 creative resale business, actually getting inventory donated for free, and then applying
0:00:14 some really savvy branding and marketing to build what she calls a sustainable soft toy
0:00:21 adoption agency. She’s saving the planet one teddy at a time from lovedbefore.london,
0:00:23 Charlotte Liebling. Welcome to the Side Hustle Show.
0:00:27 Thank you very much, Nick. It’s lovely, lovely to be here.
0:00:31 I’m excited for this one. This is a big deal. Your kid outgrows their stuffies. There’s probably
0:00:36 50 or more in the next room over there. They’re still in okay condition, most of them,
0:00:41 and a lot of donation places won’t accept them. Parents, at a certain point, want them out of the
0:00:46 house, so they end up in the landfill. I got to get rid of them some way. I can’t donate them.
0:00:53 So you come in with loved before and say, there’s got to be a better way. With over 10,000 sales now,
0:00:58 adoptions now, beautiful branding, retail partnerships. We’ll get into all of that.
0:01:03 But it started as a side hustle. You’re working full-time. You say, there’s got to be another
0:01:04 alternative path here.
0:01:12 Yeah, that’s exactly it. I was actually volunteering in a charity shop at the time, and I started to
0:01:19 notice just how many donations people were bringing in of stuffed animals and often what a really big and
0:01:23 sentimental and emotional moment it was for them. But as you say, the process, as it was,
0:01:29 is these charity shops are really overwhelmed. Thrift stores, charity shops, op shops, same thing.
0:01:34 And they were going straight out the back and into the bin, unfortunately, or they were just
0:01:41 sold as dog toys. And the memories that they came with and the love and stories were just thrown away
0:01:45 in that moment. And that really struck me. I kind of went from there, really.
0:01:49 Yeah. So you say, well, what if we could re-home these? What if we could turn this,
0:01:55 what is now, unfortunately, going to be garbage into, give it a new life? And so what are some
0:01:56 of the first steps here?
0:02:01 Well, the actual first step in that moment was for me to go home and understand that that was a
0:02:07 wider problem than just one that I was seeing in this specific shop. So I jumped straight onto Google
0:02:13 that night and was kind of frantically searching, is this a widespread problem? And what does this look
0:02:18 like on a global level? And I remember the walls were kind of covered in scribbles and crazy post-it
0:02:24 notes and like mad scientist vibes. I kind of had this brainwave of, all right, well, if we can change
0:02:29 the perceptions of them becoming rubbish and losing their value once loved, then maybe we can make a
0:02:36 real difference in the industry. And that’s kind of where I went from there, really. And I think I
0:02:44 started with the most nothing, nothing you can have, apart from maybe a very supportive mum and dad and
0:02:50 boyfriend who were kind of cheering me on. But, you know, I had sort of the five pounds in my bank
0:02:56 account that I had at the time. And I was thinking, okay, well, how do I turn that into 10? And how do I
0:03:02 turn that 10 into 100? And, you know, piece by piece, build up something here. But I would say what we
0:03:10 actually started with was a community. And so before I sold anything, before I presented any kind of
0:03:17 product or service, I put something out into the world via social media to validate that other people
0:03:22 would connect with this and this would resonate with them. So yeah, I started with the community side.
0:03:26 Was there any social following? This is just on your personal accounts at this point?
0:03:31 I set up a whole new account for this. And fundamentally, what it was, was me and my little
0:03:39 one bedroom flat with a few teddy bears, just starting to talk about some of the things that
0:03:44 were going through my brain and sharing some of their adventures and that kind of thing. So it was
0:03:50 separate from my personal account because I wanted to. I think there’s a lot of value in building
0:03:57 something almost secretly from the people around you. You want to know that this is validated beyond
0:04:04 your circle of friends who will, you know, support everything you do. And it has to have legs and
0:04:06 those legs must be built in the real world.
0:04:10 Okay. So do you have an example of what those first few posts said or looked like?
0:04:17 Yeah, it was stuff like, because I guess there’s a few elements of the concept or the proposition that
0:04:24 needed testing. It was around, do people so feel as emotionally attached to stuffed animals and
0:04:30 would people or are people looking for other ways to give them up or donate them that don’t involve
0:04:36 them going in the bin? And so I guess I was introducing some toys as having character and
0:04:42 talking about their name and what they love and personifying them and bringing them to life in a way
0:04:48 to understand whether that was the kind of thing that, you know, would at all resonate and whether
0:04:55 I was just this crazy teddy bear lady on one corner of the planet. And that’s all it was.
0:04:57 But it turns out I wasn’t.
0:05:02 Yeah, other people did resonate with this story and have it a big way since then. This is at
0:05:07 lovebefore underscore London, almost 150,000 followers on Instagram at this point. But starting
0:05:12 out with a brand new account from scratch, anything that you did to boost the post or get more eyeballs
0:05:12 on it?
0:05:19 To be honest, we don’t put any spend into marketing. It’s about storytelling, finding different and
0:05:26 creative ways to emotionally not just tell people what you’re selling and what they can buy from you,
0:05:33 telling them stories, whether that’s the stories of the brand or the founding of the business and all
0:05:38 the background. When someone comes across your profile, they should feel like they have just
0:05:46 met their new best friend. You know, you have to go beyond selling into the kind of depths of
0:05:51 human connection. And I think that for us has been the key.
0:05:57 For your initial inventory, do you go back to that charity shop where you’re volunteering at? Or do
0:06:02 you kind of put the call out on these social channels to say, if you have a used teddy bear,
0:06:08 somebody that is ready for their next adventure, we’ll take it off your hands?
0:06:15 At the very, very start, I piloted this in a small way with the charity shop that I had been working in.
0:06:21 And they, you know, gave us some of the inventory and I found they’ve accompanied them to a couple of
0:06:26 market stalls and that kind of thing. And then I said to you, okay, well, this is, this has got legs and this
0:06:33 is something I really want to develop as a sole entity. And so kind of parted from them and then was left in this
0:06:40 strange position where I’ve had just nothing. I remember that very clearly as a time where I would spend my
0:06:47 evenings, putting leaflets through doors of my local neighbourhood, you know, telling people that they
0:06:54 could come and drop stuff off. I spent my days, you know, with friends walking around charity shops,
0:07:01 pitching to them and saying that if you’ve got anything you’re throwing in the bin, then redirect it to me,
0:07:07 I’ll come and connect on a Saturday, as well as the social media side too. But yes, it was very much a
0:07:14 case of knocking on doors. But there was a turning point with that, I’ll be honest. It was probably
0:07:21 during COVID, people were looking for feel good and connection and warm and fuzzy. And that led a lot
0:07:28 of people naturally to our doorstep. And I think that was also a time where we really started to see,
0:07:37 I’m going to use the word avalanche of donations. And instead of me knocking on doors, you know,
0:07:40 the post for knocking on my door several times a day.
0:07:47 Right. So word starts to spread through this local marketing, handing out leaflets and just knocking on
0:07:50 doors at the existing charities. Look, look, if you’re going to toss it, give it to me, it said,
0:07:55 or I’ll come by and pick it up. As you start to collect some initial inventory, what happens after that?
0:08:00 A big moment of validation was sometimes you could see the amount that people were paying
0:08:06 in terms of postage to send, you know, sometimes, or before we could accept donations internally,
0:08:14 for example, within the US, someone would readily send a box containing one or two stuffed animals
0:08:20 that cost them $150, $200 to send to us just because they cared so much about what happened
0:08:26 to it next. So I guess it really gave me a kind of strength of validation in that period. Quite quickly,
0:08:34 we started to work our way up Google. So if you type in, you know, donate soft toys or donate teddy
0:08:40 bears, for example, we are the first result on the first page, you know, of most of those search terms.
0:08:47 And we have been for a long time. And I think we worked hard on that. And it was our kind of first
0:08:53 introduction to SEO and starting to understand that. But yeah, you know, there was a particular
0:08:59 day where I remember opening the door and physically not being able to walk out of my front door because
0:09:05 of this wall of boxes. And that was really particularly difficult because we shared a hallway with our
0:09:12 neighbor, who I hope isn’t listening to this because I’m sure he absolutely hates me. But yeah,
0:09:17 he could also not get out of his door and it became a bit of a regular thing. And it was kind of funny,
0:09:20 but also not so funny.
0:09:25 So now you’ve got a wall of stuffed animals that have showed up on your doorstep. How do you even
0:09:31 begin the process of cleaning these up and crafting a story around each one of these? Like it seems,
0:09:35 I solved the first problem. I got some inventory for free. Great. Now I got to go and sell it.
0:09:40 Yes. The reality of this business is from day one, it’s been a big old journey of
0:09:46 trial and error. This isn’t a business where you order something from China and then you see if it
0:09:51 works and you order it a thousand more times. Each product needs to be very individually processed
0:09:57 and loved back to life in a lot of scenarios. And it’s been a case of working out how you do that to one
0:10:02 and then how you do that to 10 and then how sure that, you know, over the same duration,
0:10:07 you do it to a hundred and then a thousand. It was quite literally opening boxes,
0:10:13 understanding all the sizes and shapes and, you know, conditions that those toys came in
0:10:20 and practicing. Yeah. Loving them back to life and, you know, failing at that a hundred times
0:10:23 before making any success for that.
0:10:27 Is it as simple as throwing it in the laundry machine?
0:10:28 I wish.
0:10:33 I love the branding on love before where you call it like the spa day where you show the
0:10:37 little teddy bear getting like scrubbed and like a lovingly, you know, it’s got a little
0:10:40 bathrobe on, I think in one of the pictures. And it’s just like, that’s great.
0:10:47 Yeah. This is something that is a bit of a weird tension with a business like this where,
0:10:54 you know, they do go through the spa and we do like live a lot of that branding and value,
0:10:57 but you know, there is that business side of like, if you’re trying to scale,
0:11:01 you can’t give each of them a bubble bath with cucumber over their eyes.
0:11:10 So we’ve had to very much work out what that balance is and how it’s so far from just being
0:11:15 able to throw them in a machine. But at the same time, you have to find cleaning methods
0:11:19 that are robust enough that you don’t know where these toys have come from. And you have to assume
0:11:24 the worst with every single one that you pick up. This is one of the areas where I think I’m often
0:11:28 most guarded because it is a bit of a secret sauce and we’ve worked so hard on it.
0:11:32 You’ve got me curious on like, well, what other categories? Like if I roll up to the local
0:11:37 thrift shops and donation shops, like, well, is there a different category of goods where they’re
0:11:42 like, yeah, we just can’t take this or it’s more trouble than it’s worth for us. But if you want it,
0:11:45 sure, you know, take it off our hands. I’m wondering if there’s any other categories because
0:11:50 it’s so creative. I was going to ask, is there a first sale moment where you’re like, okay,
0:11:54 I managed to flip one of these or I managed to sell one of these. Was it through social?
0:11:59 Was it through the website? Like take me back to the, the first revenue here.
0:12:06 Yeah. I actually don’t remember the first online sale, but I do remember there was one particular
0:12:15 sale and I think it was just so powerful in, in how much it went for. It was a, an event. There’s
0:12:24 like a, this kind of festival and I set up a stool there and it was cash only. And a few of the toys I
0:12:28 had there were just normal ones. You had, you know, builder bears and stuff like that.
0:12:34 It were going for, you know, 10 to 20 pounds, that kind of thing. And there was a couple of really,
0:12:39 really special bears I’d had there. And this was at a point, I feel like now I have a built-in
0:12:43 valuation tool in my brain, but this is at a point where I certainly didn’t. And so I’d had some help
0:12:49 in valuing these toys. And there was one there that was valued for somewhere between 350 and 400
0:12:54 pounds. And I thought it was beautiful and really, really special, but I certainly didn’t,
0:13:00 you know, expect that anyone else would, especially for that price tag. And it was the first one to go.
0:13:05 Yeah. And just in context, to translate it to dollars, we’re talking like 450 to $500 for a
0:13:06 stuffed bear.
0:13:13 Yeah. So it would be over 500. And yeah, someone whipped out their purse or there was their wallet,
0:13:22 actually, and took out all of that cash and handed it over. And I think I was in such disbelief. You
0:13:26 know, this wasn’t a collector’s fair. This wasn’t that kind of audience, but this person had been so
0:13:33 deeply struck by the concept and was so in love with this object and the item and the story it came with,
0:13:40 that they were more than happy to part with that cash. And so, yeah, that was a really special moment
0:13:46 in just, again, making me realize, okay, this has legs and other people get it and other people believe
0:13:46 in it.
0:13:49 Yeah. There’s something to it where something, this was going to get tossed. This was going to get
0:13:54 thrown away. And now all of a sudden with the right branding and positioning and story behind it,
0:14:00 it’s worth 400 pounds. More with Charlotte in just a moment, including how she landed partnerships
0:14:06 with brick and mortar luxury retailers and the surprising operational challenges of scaling this
0:14:12 kind of one of a kind inventory business right after this. This summer, don’t get burned by your
0:14:17 wireless bill. You should be planning beach trips, barbecues, three day weekends, and your wireless
0:14:21 bill should be the last thing on your mind. That’s why I made the switch to our partner,
0:14:26 mint mobile in 2019 and haven’t looked back. Mint mobile is here to rescue you from overpriced
0:14:31 wireless’s jaw dropping monthly bills and unexpected overages. All mint mobile plans come with high
0:14:38 speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation’s largest 5g network. You can use your
0:14:43 own phone with any mint mobile plan, bring your existing phone number and all your existing contacts.
0:14:48 join me in ditching overpriced wireless and get three months of premium wireless service from mint
0:14:53 mobile for just 15 bucks a month. This year, skip breaking a sweat and breaking the bank. Get your
0:15:01 summer savings and shop premium wireless plans at mint mobile.com slash side hustle. That’s mint mobile.com
0:15:08 slash side hustle. Upfront payment of $45 for three month five gigabyte plan required equivalent to $15
0:15:14 per month. New customer offer for first three months only then full price plan options available taxes and
0:15:21 fees extra. See mint mobile for details. The common advice is to hire slow and fire fast, but there comes a
0:15:26 point when you need help in your business and you need it like yesterday. So how can you find amazing
0:15:31 candidates fast? It’s easy. Just use our sponsor indeed. Stop struggling to get your job posts seen
0:15:37 on other job sites. Indeed’s sponsored jobs help you stand out and hire fast. How fast are we talking?
0:15:43 By the time this ad is over 23 businesses will have found their next team member. Plus with indeed
0:15:48 sponsored jobs, there’s no monthly subscriptions, no long-term contracts, and you only pay for results.
0:15:54 It’s no wonder why three and a half million employers worldwide already use indeed to hire great
0:15:59 talent fast and it’ll be my first stop when I need to make my next hire. There’s no need to wait any
0:16:05 longer. Speed up your hiring right now with indeed side hustle show listeners will get a $75 sponsored
0:16:12 job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com slash side hustle show. Just go to
0:16:17 indeed.com slash side hustle show right now and support our show by saying you heard about indeed on this
0:16:25 podcast indeed.com slash side hustle show. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring indeed is all you need.
0:16:31 Did you continue doing like those types of almost like a pop-up event where you show up, you know,
0:16:35 at a festival at a something else where there’s going to be a crowd of people and kind of set up shop? Is
0:16:43 that the early days of the sales side? I would say so. I think putting together a website and working out how to
0:16:49 do that was one thing that I was trying to do from the start but involved a lot of kind of
0:16:53 complexity. Obviously, each product needs to be individually photographed and things like that.
0:17:00 So going to the odd event felt like an easy touch way to start making sales and start circulating the
0:17:06 brand. I have distinct memories, you know, of totally alone, carting around a little trolley containing,
0:17:13 you know, 20 bears in this packaging. Actually, I used to hand make, this sounds so strange,
0:17:20 I couldn’t afford to buy cardboard boxes to put them in or packaging to put them in. So I used to buy
0:17:27 pieces of card and I’d hand cut out the frame of a box and make the box myself. So I used to cart
0:17:37 that all around to little, yeah, little fairs, summer fairs or school fairs even and just stand and I think
0:17:48 that as an entrepreneur, when you’re starting out, you have to dig so deep, you know, when no one else believes in
0:17:53 you or what you’re doing, you see a box among both selfless people. But, you know, people are
0:17:58 walking past and you have to dig so deep in those moments to put yourself out there and start to
0:18:03 convince other people. There’s a reason to believe in what you’re standing out with, you know.
0:18:07 Yeah, and it’s super valuable. Get the one-on-one customer interactions, what they like, what they
0:18:10 don’t like, what resonates. What are the factors that make somebody pull out their wallet and say,
0:18:11 yeah, I’ll take one?
0:18:18 It’s funny because people connect with love before and with the products, you know, and the concept on
0:18:25 such different levels. Sometimes it will be that they walk past a toy and that the name or the story
0:18:31 is something that resonates with some aspect of their life. And that will pull someone in. It could be
0:18:38 that the storytelling itself is what’s bringing someone or the, the kind of initial tag that it’s
0:18:43 something sustainable. It’s something circular. And when they dig further, they really kind of
0:18:49 fall in love with that element. I learned very early on that the packaging was such a huge part of
0:18:55 that storytelling and in that like value signaling as well. The fact that these toys were sitting there
0:19:00 with a little handwritten bio and they had their own little box with a cushion in and, you know,
0:19:07 just bringing them to life in that way again really is, is what sets it apart from a toy that’s in a
0:19:09 a box at a charity shop.
0:19:13 Yeah. They’re super cute. And you’ve given them all individual names and written a quick
0:19:16 background bio on them.
0:19:19 Yeah. And often that’s supplied by the previous owner as well.
0:19:24 Oh, okay. That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Yeah. I was going to say, if you just plug it into AI
0:19:28 and have them come up with all these, like, you know, heartwarming stories, it’s like, no,
0:19:31 it’s got to be authentic, but it needs it because otherwise it’s like, okay, you’re selling a used teddy
0:19:36 bear. Like, okay, gross. You know, that’s probably the reaction. It’s like it needs to be
0:19:38 like elevated in, uh, in the way that you’re doing it.
0:19:45 Yeah. That’s exactly it. Like these toys that have been loved, there’s this big, you know,
0:19:50 misconception that they’re losing their value. Whereas actually, if you can physically signal,
0:19:55 you know, through the packaging and through the storytelling that, that they’re so much more
0:20:00 valuable through the stories they come with. And that totally changes the perceptions. Um, but yeah,
0:20:05 often they come, you know, with their story fully written with little anecdotes about them or memory
0:20:09 shared with them, et cetera, which is always lovely. Yeah. I’m going to give an example.
0:20:14 This is a little teddy bear called Tumbles. It says Tumbles isn’t sure how her feet got so big,
0:20:19 but she’s decided to make the most of them great for dancing, stopping in puddles, or simply being
0:20:25 noticed. She’s looking for a home where clumsy is just another word for adorable, right? 25 pounds.
0:20:31 And so I want to ask about like, how you think about pricing in margins here, where it’s like most
0:20:36 on the website, I’m seeing mostly like kind of in the 15 to 25, 30 pound range, uh, you know,
0:20:42 call it 20 to $40. Is that a typical, uh, typical price per, per item?
0:20:48 Our kind of most popular price points are between like 16 to 25 pounds. You know,
0:20:53 obviously that differs, for example, if they’re in Selfridges or, um, so, you know,
0:20:58 different retailers that we’re with now, it can be different, but I’d say online on our own
0:21:03 DTC platform. Yeah. 15 to 25 ish is, is, is kind of standard.
0:21:09 Okay. How about in the retail shops? I want to talk about how those retail partnerships came to be
0:21:14 to set up a, it looks like a semi-permanent display at Selfridges, at Bloomingdale’s,
0:21:16 get some of these, you know, higher end stores.
0:21:22 It’s funny really, because it’s still quite surreal that we’re actually in those places. Um,
0:21:28 when I started this business, I said, you know, the ultimate goal, I can’t remember what the
0:21:32 question was asked that made me say this, but you know, or something along the lines of how will you
0:21:41 know when you’ve made it? And I said, if we can get these toys from rubbish, like literal rubbish to
0:21:45 being sold in the world’s most luxury stores, then I’ve made it.
0:21:50 Yeah. It’s a big gap. And it’s, it’s like, well, it happened. That’s crazy.
0:21:59 It happened. So with Selfridges, what happened is, is I wrote them an email. I found an email on their
0:22:06 website and I followed that email, you know, being very insistent that they wanted to hear from me.
0:22:12 And I followed that and followed that until I found a contact and then they put me in touch with the
0:22:18 right place. And then I said, you know, I didn’t waste much time kind of going back and forth in terms
0:22:25 of like an email chain. I said, look, let’s have a call and let me tell you about me and love before
0:22:32 and why I think you’re going to want to hear this. And so they said, yeah, okay. And we jumped on a call
0:22:39 and I kind of pitched love before and I told the story and I’d done a lot of researching and understanding
0:22:45 their own goals, especially around sustainability and where they were going as a business. And I aligned
0:22:50 it quite specifically with all of that. We started with a pop-up and we did a pop-up in their London
0:22:58 store over Christmas to kind of prove ourselves, I guess. And when we did that, they offered us a
0:23:03 permanent space in their Trafford and their Birmingham stores. And then not long after that,
0:23:08 they offered us London. So Selfridges only have four stores in the UK and we’re permanent spots in
0:23:09 three of them now.
0:23:13 Yeah. So, so cold outreach, you’re like, if you don’t ask, the answer is always no,
0:23:18 but trying to find a decision maker on the, on the buyer side or the merchandising side,
0:23:23 especially with, with brick and mortar retails, like we only have a finite amount of floor space
0:23:28 and we got to think about how it’s going to turn and how it’s going to position our brand. It’s like,
0:23:32 well, we’re not known for selling used teddy bears. So how are we going to, how are we going to make
0:23:36 sure this is in alignment with what we want to do? But the research, Hey, we, you know,
0:23:40 we know you have these sustainability goals. We feel like this is in alignment and here,
0:23:44 we’re not asking for a permanent placement right out of the gate, but let us test it out with a
0:23:47 little pop-up over the holidays. We’ll see, we’ll see how the, the shoppers react.
0:23:52 Totally. Let us prove what we can do. And I think another big selling point was
0:23:58 the fact that we, I’ve done all the design from day one of anything of all the packaging,
0:24:03 the space design, anything kind of creative. We weren’t asking anything of them. We were saying,
0:24:08 we’ll do the storytelling. We’ll design the space. We know how to do this. We,
0:24:12 we know what your variables and how we can fit in with that. So I think coming with that full
0:24:19 package made a little difference. But from that point, I’ll be really honest as we do some outreach
0:24:26 and, you know, we track leads and stuff outside, but actually people were on our doors. You know,
0:24:31 bloomingdales came to us. Oh, that’s interesting. I was going to ask if it was similar,
0:24:34 like a cold outreach to bloomingdales, but they found you.
0:24:42 Yes. And I would be silly not to think that selfridges are an incredible sales opportunity
0:24:46 for us and the traffic and the footfall that they have is incredible. And the sales
0:24:54 are absolutely great. But more than anything else, they are marketing and, you know, many of the buyers
0:25:00 or the people that have the other stores we’re now stocked in found us because they walked through
0:25:06 selfridges just on a shopping trip or with their child and they were pulled into our space and they
0:25:12 started reading about it and they went from there. So I think we owe a lot to that kind of first win.
0:25:14 Yeah. It’s like leveraging some, uh, some social proof.
0:25:20 Very much. So we’ve had a friend of mine, Harry was running the vertical farming podcast. He’s
0:25:25 trying to get guests like CEOs of vertical farming companies. And it’s like in my first email, it’s
0:25:29 like, Hey, I’m reaching out to, you know, well-known name, number one, well-known name, number two,
0:25:32 and so on. And then as soon as he booked them, he’d replaced that language with, Hey,
0:25:36 I’ve already booked calls with well-known name, number one. It’s like, okay, how do we keep this
0:25:38 virtuous circle spinning?
0:25:43 That’s exactly it. You need one foot in somewhere and the rest will follow.
0:25:48 So very good. As a percentage of the pie chart, like these retail placements versus online sales,
0:25:53 versus social versus pop-ups, like how does the revenue part break down now?
0:25:58 It can vary massively. And I think we’re in a moment of real growth on the retail side where
0:26:05 we’re bringing in lots and lots of new retailers, but it generally tends to be quite 50, 50. And so from
0:26:13 our own kind of D to C side versus the through retailer. And I think that it, it kind of always
0:26:20 has been because as we’ve grown our capabilities to fulfill larger orders for retailers, so have we
0:26:26 scaled our capability to put more on our online drops. And therefore they’ve kind of grown quite
0:26:28 nicely in parallel together.
0:26:33 Is that how you structure where we’re going to batch, spa treatment, a bunch of new donations,
0:26:37 and then do a drop versus like, we’ll put them up Wednesday, Tuesday, as we photograph them,
0:26:39 as we get them available?
0:26:45 Yeah. So we have always done drops. It’s kind of always been the mechanism against which we’ve
0:26:53 worked at the start. Those drops were of, you know, 10 to 15 bears, and now it’s 150 plus weekly. In
0:27:01 terms of our processes, it makes sense, but also actually driving the, the exclusivity and the
0:27:05 limited availability is a really powerful tool. I think on e-commerce particularly.
0:27:09 Well, plus there’s built in scarcity. It was like, there’s only one tumbles. And it’s like,
0:27:11 if you want it, he’s going to be gone.
0:27:18 And it’s very competitive. Like we, we have some real, you know, like genuinely very upset people
0:27:23 sometimes at drop time, you know, people will sit on the website as it leads up to 8pm and they’ll be
0:27:27 waiting. And if they miss out on someone they’ve had their eye on, you know, through our previews or
0:27:33 whatever, that causes genuine upset. It sounds like I’m laughing. I’m not, I find it really upsetting,
0:27:37 but that’s a really powerful thing. And it’s to, to drive that traffic that,
0:27:42 you know, is going to be there each week and to be able to track that data and watch it grow and
0:27:46 change and fluctuate, you know, throughout the year and the seasons is also really powerful.
0:27:52 And then those, the, the anticipation is primarily built through the social channels or through email
0:27:55 or like, how are you getting people pumped up for the next drop?
0:28:01 Yeah. So it’s largely socials. And we do in the kind of 24 hours ish leading up to the drop,
0:28:07 we’ll start to preview them. We put things on our stories. We do posts, we introduce a couple of the
0:28:15 stories. We use the kind of Instagram little forecasting families to give teasers. We certainly
0:28:25 do have, I think, about 40,000 subscribers to our email. And we certainly remind them of the drop and
0:28:30 give them a bit of a teaser in that too. So I would say it’s predominantly socials.
0:28:34 Was there a specific revenue target or milestone and maybe it’s getting into these, you know,
0:28:39 retail shops where you felt comfortable saying this could be a full-time thing. Like I’m going
0:28:44 all in on love before. Well, people are actually quite shocked to find out, but I actually do still
0:28:46 have another job as well. Oh, I didn’t realize that.
0:28:55 Yeah. So in true side hustle form, I started love before on the Sunday and I started an internship
0:29:00 internship at what is now my other job on the Monday. And so they have grown in parallel
0:29:06 together and fed into each other from day one. Wow. So yeah. If you ever find yourself saying,
0:29:09 well, there’s not enough hours in the day. Well, look at what Charlotte’s doing over here.
0:29:14 Yeah. It’s, it’s been a wild ride when one job has ended, the other has started. I think people
0:29:21 find it quite strange, including my own team, which is of about 15 people now that I work somewhere
0:29:26 else. But when you’re starting from absolutely nothing, you have no freedom. You have to grow
0:29:32 that freedom and we’ve never taken on investment. So I kind of consider myself my own investor,
0:29:36 you know, my, my fiance, he works full-time for the business. He manages the team and
0:29:45 people find it quite strange for sure. But yeah, I think you have to make sacrifices of all kinds as
0:29:51 an entrepreneur and investments beyond financial. And for me, it’s just been one of them so far.
0:29:55 More with Charlotte in just a moment, including growing the team, how she actually has people
0:30:01 volunteering to come work for her and some of the tools and tech she uses to manage it all coming up
0:30:07 right after this. One strategy I didn’t fully embrace or maybe wasn’t fully aware of when I was
0:30:12 starting out was this idea of the piggyback principle. In the startup phase, that means you don’t have to
0:30:17 start completely from scratch. But instead, you can take advantage of existing tools, templates,
0:30:22 playbooks, best practices from the people who’ve gone before you. A perfect example of this is our
0:30:28 partner Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses from household names
0:30:33 to side hustlers on their way to becoming household names. With hundreds of ready to use templates,
0:30:39 Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store and start selling. Plus, Shopify is packed with helpful AI
0:30:44 tools to accelerate your workflow. We’re talking product descriptions, page headlines, and even
0:30:49 enhancing your product photography. You can even easily create email and social media campaigns to
0:30:53 reach your target customers wherever they’re scrolling or strolling. If you’re ready to sell,
0:31:00 you’re ready for Shopify. Turn your big business idea into with Shopify on your side. Sign up for your one
0:31:06 dollar per month trial and start selling today at Shopify dot com slash side hustle. Go to Shopify dot com
0:31:14 slash side hustle. Shopify dot com slash side hustle. For such an important channel like phone,
0:31:20 the software powering this important channel was super outdated and clunky. We wanted to make it
0:31:26 delightful and make it very easy for businesses to connect with their customers through voice and text.
0:31:32 That’s Darina Kulia, co-founder of our sponsor, OpenPhone. Trusted by more than 60,000 customers,
0:31:37 this is the number one business phone system that streamlines and scales your customer communications.
0:31:44 We bring your calls, your messages, your contacts in one simple place and we allow you to bring in your
0:31:50 team. So you as a business owner don’t end up being the bottleneck and we really make it easy for you to
0:31:56 deliver that incredible experience. It’s all about speed, streamlined communication, team access to one
0:32:01 centralized place. I think that makes a lot of sense. Something that all of our customers love is
0:32:07 ability to have a shared phone number, which really is great for calling and texting. So when someone
0:32:12 calls you or texts you, there’s multiple people that can team up on responding and everyone is in the loop
0:32:17 about that conversation. This visibility is so critical, especially as you scale.
0:32:24 And the ability to text a business is like a new and novel thing that as a customer, I really appreciate.
0:32:30 One thing that we’ve launched at OpenPhone, which is I think a game changer, is Sona, which is our voice
0:32:37 AI agent. It basically helps you never have a single missed call. It can handle responses to any common
0:32:43 questions, basically any questions that you train it on, and then you can capture that information
0:32:47 so you can quickly follow up. We are helping businesses never lose a customer because a missed
0:32:53 call is a lost opportunity. Now, OpenPhone has automatic AI call summaries, so you don’t have to worry about
0:32:58 taking notes while you’re on the call. But another cool feature is what Darina called AI call tagging,
0:33:04 basically allowing you to quickly filter for the calls that were sales objections or customer complaints
0:33:10 requests for a discount. So you can review those and see what worked, what didn’t, and train team
0:33:16 members on the most effective tactics and language in those cases. And it’s all in the name of building
0:33:22 a better, faster, and friendlier customer experience. I want all OpenPhone customers to have five stars only.
0:33:27 Right now, OpenPhone is offering SideHustle show listeners 20% off your first six months at
0:33:37 openphone.com/sidehustle. That’s o-p-e-n-p-h-o-n-e.com/sidehustle. And if you have existing numbers with
0:33:44 another service, OpenPhone will port them over at no extra charge. OpenPhone, no missed calls, no missed customers.
0:33:50 Who was the first team member or the first couple roles that you brought on help for?
0:33:56 One was my now fiancé. So my partner’s name is Alex. We’ve been together for coming up 14 years.
0:33:58 So since I was 15 and he was 16.
0:34:00 Similar story over here. No, that’s great.
0:34:01 Oh, really?
0:34:02 High school sweethearts.
0:34:07 Oh, I love that. Well, I mean, there was a point in our lives where, you know, he’d come home from
0:34:11 work, I’d come home from work, and then I’d spend the whole night sitting on the living room floor,
0:34:16 packing orders for this strange little business that was just like in my own head at the time. And I
0:34:22 think he kind of had the thought of, okay, well, if I ever want to spend any more time with her again,
0:34:24 I think I’m going to have to jump on this ship.
0:34:25 Yeah, I’m going to have to help out, yeah.
0:34:31 Yeah. And so he did so, and he did so wholeheartedly. And I can honestly say the business
0:34:36 would not be where it is without him. He’s the kind of the other half to my brain. And so we were kind
0:34:43 of CEO, COO, and he was the first, you know, additional person. It was a no-brainer to bring him
0:34:48 along and to introduce him in. And then I’d say we kind of went through a period of having
0:34:55 a couple of different friends jump in that we would pay for bits and bobs of time just to help us fulfill
0:34:57 online orders. So packing.
0:34:59 Okay, like the logistic side.
0:35:08 Yeah, pick and pack, operational, logistic kind of side. And I suppose that’s kind of the core of our
0:35:16 team now. We do really do everything in-house. Particularly myself and Alex have kind of
0:35:22 worked out how to do all of the things in all of the roles across time. So the bulk of our team
0:35:30 are people that do the sussillment of the orders. And so like, for example, I can focus on growing
0:35:36 the business and extending it into the different directions. Yeah, we call them now officially,
0:35:38 they are junior cuddle coordinators.
0:35:43 Well, one thing that’s interesting is there’s a little volunteer tab on the website.
0:35:43 Yeah.
0:35:48 And do you get people offering their help? They just love the brand. They love the story so
0:35:49 much. They want to work for you for free.
0:35:55 It’s wild. We get so many. So I had to build this section of the website because each and
0:36:00 every day we would get people saying, you know, I want to quit my whole life and move across the
0:36:02 world to join this business.
0:36:03 Wow. That’s incredible.
0:36:09 I could show you thousands of entries across this from around the world of people who want to
0:36:14 either join the team or help bring this to their corner of the world. Or, you know,
0:36:19 as you say, volunteer for us. We do have a few members of the team now who are
0:36:23 volunteering, particularly on the like customer services side. We’re fortunate enough to have
0:36:30 made it onto a platform called We Make Change. You have to prove that you’re a business that’s
0:36:35 genuinely doing something positive and, you know, making change to get on there.
0:36:39 Wow. Okay. Is it technically, I know there’s a charitable component with, you know,
0:36:42 donating profits, but it’s not technically a nonprofit business, is it?
0:36:50 Absolutely not. And that was a really strong strategic decision from my side. For me,
0:36:57 if we’re truly to change the way the industry is going, you have to take it away from this just
0:37:03 being like teddy bears in charity shops. This is a business. This is a business that, you know,
0:37:07 off its own back chooses to do good. And like you say, supports charity in a number of ways.
0:37:14 But this is a business that I want to be, and is competing with the world’s biggest stuffed animal
0:37:21 brands, like a household name. This isn’t just a charity. This is a business that’s doing good.
0:37:23 And yeah, a proper business.
0:37:30 Got it. Yeah. In coordinating the team and coordinating the retail effort and the accepting donations,
0:37:35 the cleanup process and the online sales effort, I was going to ask if there’s any tools or software
0:37:42 or tech that you swear by that you rely on to help keep tabs on this growing empire while
0:37:44 still working the other job too.
0:37:53 For me, as a kind of, I guess, creative, as well as a business owner, I work best in platforms like
0:37:59 Figma. And so Figma is like a cloud-based kind of design platform, which is a collaborative tool
0:38:06 that I use as a bit of a whiteboard and workshop space, but also somewhere where I create deliverables
0:38:07 and design proper things.
0:38:14 The reality is a lot of this business is built in spreadsheets. This is Alex’s specialist area,
0:38:23 but he has built some incredible, incredible spreadsheets that underlie that secret source space.
0:38:31 But the fact that we have each product individually photographed and has to be checked and all their
0:38:36 safety information inputted and all of that, and in one button that uploads to our website.
0:38:41 Yeah, that’s such a logistical, you don’t think about it, the managing inventory, hundreds of sales
0:38:46 a week. And it’s not like, well, there’s 25 of this one item. It’s like everything is individualized.
0:38:49 So now I got to go delete that row or market is sold. And it’s like, absolutely have to build
0:38:52 a process around that. Otherwise it’s just going to break immediately.
0:38:59 I hope that the magic of this business is that it comes across as this simple, beautiful concept.
0:39:08 The reality is that we’ve had to break and build every part of it. You know, we exist in a weird
0:39:15 gray space. We’re not a traditional toy brand, nor are we a traditional reseller. We fall in between
0:39:22 spaces. And so we’ve had to break and remake all the systems. And it is sometimes people will say,
0:39:29 well, I’m going to poppy you and do this myself. And honestly, I’m like, good luck, good luck for you.
0:39:36 The complexity that sits behind it. And I think that particularly sits behind going from selling
0:39:45 10 to, you know, sending us a thousand in a week is infrastructure, but we’d need like now scientists
0:39:45 in the background.
0:39:49 Well, you might call it a gray space. Others might call it a blue ocean where it’s like,
0:39:53 there’s nobody else competing in this specific sub niche. So I think that works. It looks like the
0:39:58 website itself is powered by Wix. Anything else on the tools and tech side?
0:40:06 I think recently, and this comes with increased cash flow is, is using tools like it sounds so
0:40:12 silly, but zero and accounting tools. There are so many spaces as an entrepreneur where you can
0:40:21 pour in your energy and so much energy. But if you can afford to, that energy can be so much better spent
0:40:27 in other directions if you can just plug something simple in. And I think that particularly, you know,
0:40:31 I know it sounds boring to just be like, get accounting software, but it’s, it’s not. And it’s,
0:40:37 you know, once you reach that point, it’s like a massive, massive weight lifted off your shoulders
0:40:44 on the actual operational side. So obviously each toy comes with a bio. And at the very start,
0:40:50 I would handwrite them all. I’ve actually got a lump on my finger, which is from writing,
0:40:54 you know, hundreds and hundreds per day. And it’s really painful and I can’t do it anymore.
0:41:01 But at that point, you know, we had to work out, okay, well, how do we mass write cards? And we
0:41:06 couldn’t afford the printer that would take the cardstock that would allow that. So we managed
0:41:12 to get our hands on a, on a robot and Alex programmed this robot to hold a pen.
0:41:13 What?
0:41:20 I’ve got footage of this. It’s quite incredible. And the robot would communicate with the computer
0:41:26 who would, you know, send the story to it. And we, in the end, we even programmed another robot.
0:41:28 So we had Isaac was our first handwriting robot.
0:41:30 A handwriting robot.
0:41:37 Yeah. Incredible. And then we had Margot Roby, who would pick up the card to give it to Isaac,
0:41:42 because obviously you’ve got, you know, it’s all well at writing the cards, but it’s not helpful if
0:41:44 you have to sit there all night handing it a card to write.
0:41:46 Babysitting the robot, sure.
0:41:52 Yeah. So Margot would use a suction arm to hand the card to Isaac, who would communicate with the
0:41:58 computer and write the story using an actual biro. And, you know, we went from there. And we did that
0:42:03 until we reached the point where we could afford the ridiculous printer. But then, even then, we didn’t
0:42:08 want to lose that handwritten touch. So it’s like built around my handwriting and all of this, you know,
0:42:15 that’s the side to the tech that I think you just have to go through the works of and the processes of
0:42:17 and the trial and error of.
0:42:21 Yeah. That’s kind of crazy. We go through this, you know, elimination, automation,
0:42:22 delegation type of framework.
0:42:23 Absolutely.
0:42:27 What gives you energy? Where’s your time best spent? Like, okay, is there a way to automate it?
0:42:32 It turns out we could automate handwriting pretty well with a robot. I never knew that that was a thing.
0:42:33 Yes.
0:42:38 Very cool. I was going to ask, going back to that point about where you’re spending your energy,
0:42:43 what’s a day in the life look like for you if there is such thing as a typical, you know,
0:42:45 typical Tuesday and in the day of Charlotte?
0:42:51 I would say that there definitely is no typical day in my life. A day in my life really has very
0:43:00 little pattern or routine. I spend, I’d say, a lot of my time on calls kind of growing the business,
0:43:06 whether that’s with new retailers or, you know, partnerships and talking to new people. I do a lot
0:43:12 of interviews, you know, a year or two ago. I was the one that was up through the night packing orders,
0:43:17 but I’ve moved since further away from that operational side into the kind of growing the
0:43:18 business. Yeah.
0:43:24 Yeah. So a lot of my day is, is telling our story in various different directions. It’s
0:43:29 working with different people to work out how to tell the story alongside them.
0:43:33 Yeah. Well, the press loves you. I don’t know how my listener came across you, but I mean,
0:43:39 we’ve got features in BBC and The Guardian and dozens of other outlets here. What’s surprised
0:43:42 you the most over the last four or five years of building this thing?
0:43:49 I could probably do a whole podcast episode on mistakes and surprises. No, I feel like there’s a
0:43:57 moment, a turning point where you realize that you actually appreciate the surprises and the failures
0:44:03 and the mistakes more than the successes, because they teach you so much more than anything else ever
0:44:08 could. So I feel like that’s the point where I’m at. And I can look back a lot of the moments that we have
0:44:17 had in a very different light. You grow in maturity as a business owner quite rapidly. And if I look at
0:44:24 some of the decisions I made earlier on, and frankly, some of the ways in which I was taken advantage of
0:44:31 by other businesses, for example, were quite shocking. And I think we’ve grown a lot since then. We’ve had
0:44:37 packaging that’s arrived totally wrong. And we’ve spent huge amounts of money on, you know,
0:44:45 moments where we’ve lost every penny that we had, even stuff like almost burning down our whole office
0:44:49 and workshop by accident. The learnings around that kind of thing.
0:44:55 Love Before has facilitated over 10,000 adoptions. What’s next? Where are you taking this thing? More
0:44:59 retail partnerships? What does the future hold? Fluffy world domination, for sure.
0:45:00 Nice.
0:45:06 I think that looks like many different things. The goal is absolute household name. You know,
0:45:12 when someone thinks about a stuffed animal, whether that’s buying, donating or getting rid of,
0:45:18 learning how to care for, I want them to think of us and for us to be the authority in that. We will be
0:45:26 soon expanding our services into, for example, the spa side more so people can send in their toys and
0:45:30 have them pampered and sparred and sent back to them. You know, so building out more services based
0:45:37 on the capabilities that we’ve built in-house. I think having our own stores one day, as well as
0:45:44 expanding into retailers across the world. Currently, and this is, well, I don’t know if I should say this,
0:45:46 writing a book in the background.
0:45:48 In your spare time, geez.
0:45:55 In my spare zero time. But yeah, you know, when I say world domination, I really mean it. I want to be
0:46:01 everywhere in every touch point that exists that a stuffed animal does. It’s not just about, you know,
0:46:06 selling them in the beautiful boxes. But when you go to a theme park, for example, and you see them all
0:46:12 stuffed in a machine with a grabbing, you know, a grab machine, you know, why do they have to be produced
0:46:18 new and shipped over from China? Why aren’t we using the ones we already have for those kind of
0:46:23 things? So I think developing the proposition from what it is now into, like I said, every touch point
0:46:25 that interacts with a stuffed animal.
0:46:30 Yeah, you got to work both sides, the supply side, we got to keep up the volume of donations to keep
0:46:36 up with the demand on the sales side. I love the idea of spinning off, starting a side hustle on the
0:46:39 side hustle, we can have a spa service, send them to us, we’ll send you back. I think that’s really cool
0:46:46 and excited to see where it all goes. And today, you’re supporting Make-A-Wish UK with half of all
0:46:53 profits donated to charitable causes. Loved before that London is where you can check out the sustainable
0:46:59 stuffed animal adoption agency. Charlotte is at the fluffy CEO, if you want to follow her personal
0:47:04 account. Let’s wrap this thing up with your number one tip for side hustle nation, particularly as a
0:47:10 founder, who is really trying to change the world. The top tip is about building something that makes
0:47:19 people feel something. I think connection is the most underrated currency in business. And it’s
0:47:26 something that’s massively under-recognized. Anyone can sell stuff, but you have to, behind that,
0:47:32 build a brand that people come back to, that they believe in, that they tell others about.
0:47:36 Yeah, that people threaten to quit their jobs and move across the world and try and volunteer for you.
0:47:40 Exactly that. People do, and some of my team have. They’ve given up their whole lives to come across
0:47:47 them because they believe in it so deeply. You have to stir something in people. Because I think
0:47:53 something I always say is that feeling leads to following. That following is where you build trust,
0:47:59 and that trust is where you see magic. I like that. Feeling leads to following.
0:48:06 Yeah. Feeling leads to following. And this is that community-first approach. Brand before business,
0:48:09 before product, before anything else. Make people feel.
0:48:14 Yeah, that’s great. That was one of the things that I wrote down was your line. When somebody comes
0:48:19 across your profile or your site, they should feel like they just met their new best friend. It’s like
0:48:24 that kind of gut, first response, reaction, almost love at first sight type of thing. “Hey, these people get
0:48:29 me. This person gets me, right?” And like, “Yes, I want to follow that.” Feeling leads to following.
0:48:33 That’s great. The other takeaway that I put down was find that gray space. You know,
0:48:39 find that blue ocean. John Lee Dumas calls it, “Be the best, be the worst, be the only.” And it’s like,
0:48:43 if you can niche down to the point where you could say, “We’re the best stuff toy adoption agency. We’re
0:48:47 the worst because we’re the only. We’re the only game in town.” If you want this type of thing,
0:48:53 find that gray space. Loved this conversation. Again, loved before that London. If you’re listening
0:48:57 to this, you want to make extra money, you’re not sure which path to take, I want to invite
0:49:01 you to take our free two minute quiz at hustle.show. You can do it right from your phone. And then based
0:49:07 on your answers, it’s going to point you hopefully in the right direction with a custom curated list of
0:49:13 eight to 10 side hustle show episodes from the greatest hits archives, what to listen to next. Again,
0:49:17 that’s hustle.show. A few short questions about your side hustle interests, your goals,
0:49:21 and then you can add that personalized playlist to your device. You can learn what works from
0:49:26 some of our top guests and then go out and make some more money. Again, big thanks to Charlotte for
0:49:31 sharing her insight. Big thanks to our sponsors for helping make this content free for everyone.
0:49:37 Sidehustlenation.com/deals is the spot to go to find all the latest offers from our sponsors in one
0:49:41 place. That is it for me. Thank you so much for tuning in. If you’re finding value in the show,
0:49:45 the greatest compliment is to share it with a friend. So fire off that text message. Hey,
0:49:50 you got to check this out. I know you’re going to love it until next time. Oh, let’s go out there
0:49:55 and make something happen. And I’ll catch you in the next edition of the side hustle show. Hustle on.
0:00:08 creative resale business, actually getting inventory donated for free, and then applying
0:00:14 some really savvy branding and marketing to build what she calls a sustainable soft toy
0:00:21 adoption agency. She’s saving the planet one teddy at a time from lovedbefore.london,
0:00:23 Charlotte Liebling. Welcome to the Side Hustle Show.
0:00:27 Thank you very much, Nick. It’s lovely, lovely to be here.
0:00:31 I’m excited for this one. This is a big deal. Your kid outgrows their stuffies. There’s probably
0:00:36 50 or more in the next room over there. They’re still in okay condition, most of them,
0:00:41 and a lot of donation places won’t accept them. Parents, at a certain point, want them out of the
0:00:46 house, so they end up in the landfill. I got to get rid of them some way. I can’t donate them.
0:00:53 So you come in with loved before and say, there’s got to be a better way. With over 10,000 sales now,
0:00:58 adoptions now, beautiful branding, retail partnerships. We’ll get into all of that.
0:01:03 But it started as a side hustle. You’re working full-time. You say, there’s got to be another
0:01:04 alternative path here.
0:01:12 Yeah, that’s exactly it. I was actually volunteering in a charity shop at the time, and I started to
0:01:19 notice just how many donations people were bringing in of stuffed animals and often what a really big and
0:01:23 sentimental and emotional moment it was for them. But as you say, the process, as it was,
0:01:29 is these charity shops are really overwhelmed. Thrift stores, charity shops, op shops, same thing.
0:01:34 And they were going straight out the back and into the bin, unfortunately, or they were just
0:01:41 sold as dog toys. And the memories that they came with and the love and stories were just thrown away
0:01:45 in that moment. And that really struck me. I kind of went from there, really.
0:01:49 Yeah. So you say, well, what if we could re-home these? What if we could turn this,
0:01:55 what is now, unfortunately, going to be garbage into, give it a new life? And so what are some
0:01:56 of the first steps here?
0:02:01 Well, the actual first step in that moment was for me to go home and understand that that was a
0:02:07 wider problem than just one that I was seeing in this specific shop. So I jumped straight onto Google
0:02:13 that night and was kind of frantically searching, is this a widespread problem? And what does this look
0:02:18 like on a global level? And I remember the walls were kind of covered in scribbles and crazy post-it
0:02:24 notes and like mad scientist vibes. I kind of had this brainwave of, all right, well, if we can change
0:02:29 the perceptions of them becoming rubbish and losing their value once loved, then maybe we can make a
0:02:36 real difference in the industry. And that’s kind of where I went from there, really. And I think I
0:02:44 started with the most nothing, nothing you can have, apart from maybe a very supportive mum and dad and
0:02:50 boyfriend who were kind of cheering me on. But, you know, I had sort of the five pounds in my bank
0:02:56 account that I had at the time. And I was thinking, okay, well, how do I turn that into 10? And how do I
0:03:02 turn that 10 into 100? And, you know, piece by piece, build up something here. But I would say what we
0:03:10 actually started with was a community. And so before I sold anything, before I presented any kind of
0:03:17 product or service, I put something out into the world via social media to validate that other people
0:03:22 would connect with this and this would resonate with them. So yeah, I started with the community side.
0:03:26 Was there any social following? This is just on your personal accounts at this point?
0:03:31 I set up a whole new account for this. And fundamentally, what it was, was me and my little
0:03:39 one bedroom flat with a few teddy bears, just starting to talk about some of the things that
0:03:44 were going through my brain and sharing some of their adventures and that kind of thing. So it was
0:03:50 separate from my personal account because I wanted to. I think there’s a lot of value in building
0:03:57 something almost secretly from the people around you. You want to know that this is validated beyond
0:04:04 your circle of friends who will, you know, support everything you do. And it has to have legs and
0:04:06 those legs must be built in the real world.
0:04:10 Okay. So do you have an example of what those first few posts said or looked like?
0:04:17 Yeah, it was stuff like, because I guess there’s a few elements of the concept or the proposition that
0:04:24 needed testing. It was around, do people so feel as emotionally attached to stuffed animals and
0:04:30 would people or are people looking for other ways to give them up or donate them that don’t involve
0:04:36 them going in the bin? And so I guess I was introducing some toys as having character and
0:04:42 talking about their name and what they love and personifying them and bringing them to life in a way
0:04:48 to understand whether that was the kind of thing that, you know, would at all resonate and whether
0:04:55 I was just this crazy teddy bear lady on one corner of the planet. And that’s all it was.
0:04:57 But it turns out I wasn’t.
0:05:02 Yeah, other people did resonate with this story and have it a big way since then. This is at
0:05:07 lovebefore underscore London, almost 150,000 followers on Instagram at this point. But starting
0:05:12 out with a brand new account from scratch, anything that you did to boost the post or get more eyeballs
0:05:12 on it?
0:05:19 To be honest, we don’t put any spend into marketing. It’s about storytelling, finding different and
0:05:26 creative ways to emotionally not just tell people what you’re selling and what they can buy from you,
0:05:33 telling them stories, whether that’s the stories of the brand or the founding of the business and all
0:05:38 the background. When someone comes across your profile, they should feel like they have just
0:05:46 met their new best friend. You know, you have to go beyond selling into the kind of depths of
0:05:51 human connection. And I think that for us has been the key.
0:05:57 For your initial inventory, do you go back to that charity shop where you’re volunteering at? Or do
0:06:02 you kind of put the call out on these social channels to say, if you have a used teddy bear,
0:06:08 somebody that is ready for their next adventure, we’ll take it off your hands?
0:06:15 At the very, very start, I piloted this in a small way with the charity shop that I had been working in.
0:06:21 And they, you know, gave us some of the inventory and I found they’ve accompanied them to a couple of
0:06:26 market stalls and that kind of thing. And then I said to you, okay, well, this is, this has got legs and this
0:06:33 is something I really want to develop as a sole entity. And so kind of parted from them and then was left in this
0:06:40 strange position where I’ve had just nothing. I remember that very clearly as a time where I would spend my
0:06:47 evenings, putting leaflets through doors of my local neighbourhood, you know, telling people that they
0:06:54 could come and drop stuff off. I spent my days, you know, with friends walking around charity shops,
0:07:01 pitching to them and saying that if you’ve got anything you’re throwing in the bin, then redirect it to me,
0:07:07 I’ll come and connect on a Saturday, as well as the social media side too. But yes, it was very much a
0:07:14 case of knocking on doors. But there was a turning point with that, I’ll be honest. It was probably
0:07:21 during COVID, people were looking for feel good and connection and warm and fuzzy. And that led a lot
0:07:28 of people naturally to our doorstep. And I think that was also a time where we really started to see,
0:07:37 I’m going to use the word avalanche of donations. And instead of me knocking on doors, you know,
0:07:40 the post for knocking on my door several times a day.
0:07:47 Right. So word starts to spread through this local marketing, handing out leaflets and just knocking on
0:07:50 doors at the existing charities. Look, look, if you’re going to toss it, give it to me, it said,
0:07:55 or I’ll come by and pick it up. As you start to collect some initial inventory, what happens after that?
0:08:00 A big moment of validation was sometimes you could see the amount that people were paying
0:08:06 in terms of postage to send, you know, sometimes, or before we could accept donations internally,
0:08:14 for example, within the US, someone would readily send a box containing one or two stuffed animals
0:08:20 that cost them $150, $200 to send to us just because they cared so much about what happened
0:08:26 to it next. So I guess it really gave me a kind of strength of validation in that period. Quite quickly,
0:08:34 we started to work our way up Google. So if you type in, you know, donate soft toys or donate teddy
0:08:40 bears, for example, we are the first result on the first page, you know, of most of those search terms.
0:08:47 And we have been for a long time. And I think we worked hard on that. And it was our kind of first
0:08:53 introduction to SEO and starting to understand that. But yeah, you know, there was a particular
0:08:59 day where I remember opening the door and physically not being able to walk out of my front door because
0:09:05 of this wall of boxes. And that was really particularly difficult because we shared a hallway with our
0:09:12 neighbor, who I hope isn’t listening to this because I’m sure he absolutely hates me. But yeah,
0:09:17 he could also not get out of his door and it became a bit of a regular thing. And it was kind of funny,
0:09:20 but also not so funny.
0:09:25 So now you’ve got a wall of stuffed animals that have showed up on your doorstep. How do you even
0:09:31 begin the process of cleaning these up and crafting a story around each one of these? Like it seems,
0:09:35 I solved the first problem. I got some inventory for free. Great. Now I got to go and sell it.
0:09:40 Yes. The reality of this business is from day one, it’s been a big old journey of
0:09:46 trial and error. This isn’t a business where you order something from China and then you see if it
0:09:51 works and you order it a thousand more times. Each product needs to be very individually processed
0:09:57 and loved back to life in a lot of scenarios. And it’s been a case of working out how you do that to one
0:10:02 and then how you do that to 10 and then how sure that, you know, over the same duration,
0:10:07 you do it to a hundred and then a thousand. It was quite literally opening boxes,
0:10:13 understanding all the sizes and shapes and, you know, conditions that those toys came in
0:10:20 and practicing. Yeah. Loving them back to life and, you know, failing at that a hundred times
0:10:23 before making any success for that.
0:10:27 Is it as simple as throwing it in the laundry machine?
0:10:28 I wish.
0:10:33 I love the branding on love before where you call it like the spa day where you show the
0:10:37 little teddy bear getting like scrubbed and like a lovingly, you know, it’s got a little
0:10:40 bathrobe on, I think in one of the pictures. And it’s just like, that’s great.
0:10:47 Yeah. This is something that is a bit of a weird tension with a business like this where,
0:10:54 you know, they do go through the spa and we do like live a lot of that branding and value,
0:10:57 but you know, there is that business side of like, if you’re trying to scale,
0:11:01 you can’t give each of them a bubble bath with cucumber over their eyes.
0:11:10 So we’ve had to very much work out what that balance is and how it’s so far from just being
0:11:15 able to throw them in a machine. But at the same time, you have to find cleaning methods
0:11:19 that are robust enough that you don’t know where these toys have come from. And you have to assume
0:11:24 the worst with every single one that you pick up. This is one of the areas where I think I’m often
0:11:28 most guarded because it is a bit of a secret sauce and we’ve worked so hard on it.
0:11:32 You’ve got me curious on like, well, what other categories? Like if I roll up to the local
0:11:37 thrift shops and donation shops, like, well, is there a different category of goods where they’re
0:11:42 like, yeah, we just can’t take this or it’s more trouble than it’s worth for us. But if you want it,
0:11:45 sure, you know, take it off our hands. I’m wondering if there’s any other categories because
0:11:50 it’s so creative. I was going to ask, is there a first sale moment where you’re like, okay,
0:11:54 I managed to flip one of these or I managed to sell one of these. Was it through social?
0:11:59 Was it through the website? Like take me back to the, the first revenue here.
0:12:06 Yeah. I actually don’t remember the first online sale, but I do remember there was one particular
0:12:15 sale and I think it was just so powerful in, in how much it went for. It was a, an event. There’s
0:12:24 like a, this kind of festival and I set up a stool there and it was cash only. And a few of the toys I
0:12:28 had there were just normal ones. You had, you know, builder bears and stuff like that.
0:12:34 It were going for, you know, 10 to 20 pounds, that kind of thing. And there was a couple of really,
0:12:39 really special bears I’d had there. And this was at a point, I feel like now I have a built-in
0:12:43 valuation tool in my brain, but this is at a point where I certainly didn’t. And so I’d had some help
0:12:49 in valuing these toys. And there was one there that was valued for somewhere between 350 and 400
0:12:54 pounds. And I thought it was beautiful and really, really special, but I certainly didn’t,
0:13:00 you know, expect that anyone else would, especially for that price tag. And it was the first one to go.
0:13:05 Yeah. And just in context, to translate it to dollars, we’re talking like 450 to $500 for a
0:13:06 stuffed bear.
0:13:13 Yeah. So it would be over 500. And yeah, someone whipped out their purse or there was their wallet,
0:13:22 actually, and took out all of that cash and handed it over. And I think I was in such disbelief. You
0:13:26 know, this wasn’t a collector’s fair. This wasn’t that kind of audience, but this person had been so
0:13:33 deeply struck by the concept and was so in love with this object and the item and the story it came with,
0:13:40 that they were more than happy to part with that cash. And so, yeah, that was a really special moment
0:13:46 in just, again, making me realize, okay, this has legs and other people get it and other people believe
0:13:46 in it.
0:13:49 Yeah. There’s something to it where something, this was going to get tossed. This was going to get
0:13:54 thrown away. And now all of a sudden with the right branding and positioning and story behind it,
0:14:00 it’s worth 400 pounds. More with Charlotte in just a moment, including how she landed partnerships
0:14:06 with brick and mortar luxury retailers and the surprising operational challenges of scaling this
0:14:12 kind of one of a kind inventory business right after this. This summer, don’t get burned by your
0:14:17 wireless bill. You should be planning beach trips, barbecues, three day weekends, and your wireless
0:14:21 bill should be the last thing on your mind. That’s why I made the switch to our partner,
0:14:26 mint mobile in 2019 and haven’t looked back. Mint mobile is here to rescue you from overpriced
0:14:31 wireless’s jaw dropping monthly bills and unexpected overages. All mint mobile plans come with high
0:14:38 speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation’s largest 5g network. You can use your
0:14:43 own phone with any mint mobile plan, bring your existing phone number and all your existing contacts.
0:14:48 join me in ditching overpriced wireless and get three months of premium wireless service from mint
0:14:53 mobile for just 15 bucks a month. This year, skip breaking a sweat and breaking the bank. Get your
0:15:01 summer savings and shop premium wireless plans at mint mobile.com slash side hustle. That’s mint mobile.com
0:15:08 slash side hustle. Upfront payment of $45 for three month five gigabyte plan required equivalent to $15
0:15:14 per month. New customer offer for first three months only then full price plan options available taxes and
0:15:21 fees extra. See mint mobile for details. The common advice is to hire slow and fire fast, but there comes a
0:15:26 point when you need help in your business and you need it like yesterday. So how can you find amazing
0:15:31 candidates fast? It’s easy. Just use our sponsor indeed. Stop struggling to get your job posts seen
0:15:37 on other job sites. Indeed’s sponsored jobs help you stand out and hire fast. How fast are we talking?
0:15:43 By the time this ad is over 23 businesses will have found their next team member. Plus with indeed
0:15:48 sponsored jobs, there’s no monthly subscriptions, no long-term contracts, and you only pay for results.
0:15:54 It’s no wonder why three and a half million employers worldwide already use indeed to hire great
0:15:59 talent fast and it’ll be my first stop when I need to make my next hire. There’s no need to wait any
0:16:05 longer. Speed up your hiring right now with indeed side hustle show listeners will get a $75 sponsored
0:16:12 job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com slash side hustle show. Just go to
0:16:17 indeed.com slash side hustle show right now and support our show by saying you heard about indeed on this
0:16:25 podcast indeed.com slash side hustle show. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring indeed is all you need.
0:16:31 Did you continue doing like those types of almost like a pop-up event where you show up, you know,
0:16:35 at a festival at a something else where there’s going to be a crowd of people and kind of set up shop? Is
0:16:43 that the early days of the sales side? I would say so. I think putting together a website and working out how to
0:16:49 do that was one thing that I was trying to do from the start but involved a lot of kind of
0:16:53 complexity. Obviously, each product needs to be individually photographed and things like that.
0:17:00 So going to the odd event felt like an easy touch way to start making sales and start circulating the
0:17:06 brand. I have distinct memories, you know, of totally alone, carting around a little trolley containing,
0:17:13 you know, 20 bears in this packaging. Actually, I used to hand make, this sounds so strange,
0:17:20 I couldn’t afford to buy cardboard boxes to put them in or packaging to put them in. So I used to buy
0:17:27 pieces of card and I’d hand cut out the frame of a box and make the box myself. So I used to cart
0:17:37 that all around to little, yeah, little fairs, summer fairs or school fairs even and just stand and I think
0:17:48 that as an entrepreneur, when you’re starting out, you have to dig so deep, you know, when no one else believes in
0:17:53 you or what you’re doing, you see a box among both selfless people. But, you know, people are
0:17:58 walking past and you have to dig so deep in those moments to put yourself out there and start to
0:18:03 convince other people. There’s a reason to believe in what you’re standing out with, you know.
0:18:07 Yeah, and it’s super valuable. Get the one-on-one customer interactions, what they like, what they
0:18:10 don’t like, what resonates. What are the factors that make somebody pull out their wallet and say,
0:18:11 yeah, I’ll take one?
0:18:18 It’s funny because people connect with love before and with the products, you know, and the concept on
0:18:25 such different levels. Sometimes it will be that they walk past a toy and that the name or the story
0:18:31 is something that resonates with some aspect of their life. And that will pull someone in. It could be
0:18:38 that the storytelling itself is what’s bringing someone or the, the kind of initial tag that it’s
0:18:43 something sustainable. It’s something circular. And when they dig further, they really kind of
0:18:49 fall in love with that element. I learned very early on that the packaging was such a huge part of
0:18:55 that storytelling and in that like value signaling as well. The fact that these toys were sitting there
0:19:00 with a little handwritten bio and they had their own little box with a cushion in and, you know,
0:19:07 just bringing them to life in that way again really is, is what sets it apart from a toy that’s in a
0:19:09 a box at a charity shop.
0:19:13 Yeah. They’re super cute. And you’ve given them all individual names and written a quick
0:19:16 background bio on them.
0:19:19 Yeah. And often that’s supplied by the previous owner as well.
0:19:24 Oh, okay. That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Yeah. I was going to say, if you just plug it into AI
0:19:28 and have them come up with all these, like, you know, heartwarming stories, it’s like, no,
0:19:31 it’s got to be authentic, but it needs it because otherwise it’s like, okay, you’re selling a used teddy
0:19:36 bear. Like, okay, gross. You know, that’s probably the reaction. It’s like it needs to be
0:19:38 like elevated in, uh, in the way that you’re doing it.
0:19:45 Yeah. That’s exactly it. Like these toys that have been loved, there’s this big, you know,
0:19:50 misconception that they’re losing their value. Whereas actually, if you can physically signal,
0:19:55 you know, through the packaging and through the storytelling that, that they’re so much more
0:20:00 valuable through the stories they come with. And that totally changes the perceptions. Um, but yeah,
0:20:05 often they come, you know, with their story fully written with little anecdotes about them or memory
0:20:09 shared with them, et cetera, which is always lovely. Yeah. I’m going to give an example.
0:20:14 This is a little teddy bear called Tumbles. It says Tumbles isn’t sure how her feet got so big,
0:20:19 but she’s decided to make the most of them great for dancing, stopping in puddles, or simply being
0:20:25 noticed. She’s looking for a home where clumsy is just another word for adorable, right? 25 pounds.
0:20:31 And so I want to ask about like, how you think about pricing in margins here, where it’s like most
0:20:36 on the website, I’m seeing mostly like kind of in the 15 to 25, 30 pound range, uh, you know,
0:20:42 call it 20 to $40. Is that a typical, uh, typical price per, per item?
0:20:48 Our kind of most popular price points are between like 16 to 25 pounds. You know,
0:20:53 obviously that differs, for example, if they’re in Selfridges or, um, so, you know,
0:20:58 different retailers that we’re with now, it can be different, but I’d say online on our own
0:21:03 DTC platform. Yeah. 15 to 25 ish is, is, is kind of standard.
0:21:09 Okay. How about in the retail shops? I want to talk about how those retail partnerships came to be
0:21:14 to set up a, it looks like a semi-permanent display at Selfridges, at Bloomingdale’s,
0:21:16 get some of these, you know, higher end stores.
0:21:22 It’s funny really, because it’s still quite surreal that we’re actually in those places. Um,
0:21:28 when I started this business, I said, you know, the ultimate goal, I can’t remember what the
0:21:32 question was asked that made me say this, but you know, or something along the lines of how will you
0:21:41 know when you’ve made it? And I said, if we can get these toys from rubbish, like literal rubbish to
0:21:45 being sold in the world’s most luxury stores, then I’ve made it.
0:21:50 Yeah. It’s a big gap. And it’s, it’s like, well, it happened. That’s crazy.
0:21:59 It happened. So with Selfridges, what happened is, is I wrote them an email. I found an email on their
0:22:06 website and I followed that email, you know, being very insistent that they wanted to hear from me.
0:22:12 And I followed that and followed that until I found a contact and then they put me in touch with the
0:22:18 right place. And then I said, you know, I didn’t waste much time kind of going back and forth in terms
0:22:25 of like an email chain. I said, look, let’s have a call and let me tell you about me and love before
0:22:32 and why I think you’re going to want to hear this. And so they said, yeah, okay. And we jumped on a call
0:22:39 and I kind of pitched love before and I told the story and I’d done a lot of researching and understanding
0:22:45 their own goals, especially around sustainability and where they were going as a business. And I aligned
0:22:50 it quite specifically with all of that. We started with a pop-up and we did a pop-up in their London
0:22:58 store over Christmas to kind of prove ourselves, I guess. And when we did that, they offered us a
0:23:03 permanent space in their Trafford and their Birmingham stores. And then not long after that,
0:23:08 they offered us London. So Selfridges only have four stores in the UK and we’re permanent spots in
0:23:09 three of them now.
0:23:13 Yeah. So, so cold outreach, you’re like, if you don’t ask, the answer is always no,
0:23:18 but trying to find a decision maker on the, on the buyer side or the merchandising side,
0:23:23 especially with, with brick and mortar retails, like we only have a finite amount of floor space
0:23:28 and we got to think about how it’s going to turn and how it’s going to position our brand. It’s like,
0:23:32 well, we’re not known for selling used teddy bears. So how are we going to, how are we going to make
0:23:36 sure this is in alignment with what we want to do? But the research, Hey, we, you know,
0:23:40 we know you have these sustainability goals. We feel like this is in alignment and here,
0:23:44 we’re not asking for a permanent placement right out of the gate, but let us test it out with a
0:23:47 little pop-up over the holidays. We’ll see, we’ll see how the, the shoppers react.
0:23:52 Totally. Let us prove what we can do. And I think another big selling point was
0:23:58 the fact that we, I’ve done all the design from day one of anything of all the packaging,
0:24:03 the space design, anything kind of creative. We weren’t asking anything of them. We were saying,
0:24:08 we’ll do the storytelling. We’ll design the space. We know how to do this. We,
0:24:12 we know what your variables and how we can fit in with that. So I think coming with that full
0:24:19 package made a little difference. But from that point, I’ll be really honest as we do some outreach
0:24:26 and, you know, we track leads and stuff outside, but actually people were on our doors. You know,
0:24:31 bloomingdales came to us. Oh, that’s interesting. I was going to ask if it was similar,
0:24:34 like a cold outreach to bloomingdales, but they found you.
0:24:42 Yes. And I would be silly not to think that selfridges are an incredible sales opportunity
0:24:46 for us and the traffic and the footfall that they have is incredible. And the sales
0:24:54 are absolutely great. But more than anything else, they are marketing and, you know, many of the buyers
0:25:00 or the people that have the other stores we’re now stocked in found us because they walked through
0:25:06 selfridges just on a shopping trip or with their child and they were pulled into our space and they
0:25:12 started reading about it and they went from there. So I think we owe a lot to that kind of first win.
0:25:14 Yeah. It’s like leveraging some, uh, some social proof.
0:25:20 Very much. So we’ve had a friend of mine, Harry was running the vertical farming podcast. He’s
0:25:25 trying to get guests like CEOs of vertical farming companies. And it’s like in my first email, it’s
0:25:29 like, Hey, I’m reaching out to, you know, well-known name, number one, well-known name, number two,
0:25:32 and so on. And then as soon as he booked them, he’d replaced that language with, Hey,
0:25:36 I’ve already booked calls with well-known name, number one. It’s like, okay, how do we keep this
0:25:38 virtuous circle spinning?
0:25:43 That’s exactly it. You need one foot in somewhere and the rest will follow.
0:25:48 So very good. As a percentage of the pie chart, like these retail placements versus online sales,
0:25:53 versus social versus pop-ups, like how does the revenue part break down now?
0:25:58 It can vary massively. And I think we’re in a moment of real growth on the retail side where
0:26:05 we’re bringing in lots and lots of new retailers, but it generally tends to be quite 50, 50. And so from
0:26:13 our own kind of D to C side versus the through retailer. And I think that it, it kind of always
0:26:20 has been because as we’ve grown our capabilities to fulfill larger orders for retailers, so have we
0:26:26 scaled our capability to put more on our online drops. And therefore they’ve kind of grown quite
0:26:28 nicely in parallel together.
0:26:33 Is that how you structure where we’re going to batch, spa treatment, a bunch of new donations,
0:26:37 and then do a drop versus like, we’ll put them up Wednesday, Tuesday, as we photograph them,
0:26:39 as we get them available?
0:26:45 Yeah. So we have always done drops. It’s kind of always been the mechanism against which we’ve
0:26:53 worked at the start. Those drops were of, you know, 10 to 15 bears, and now it’s 150 plus weekly. In
0:27:01 terms of our processes, it makes sense, but also actually driving the, the exclusivity and the
0:27:05 limited availability is a really powerful tool. I think on e-commerce particularly.
0:27:09 Well, plus there’s built in scarcity. It was like, there’s only one tumbles. And it’s like,
0:27:11 if you want it, he’s going to be gone.
0:27:18 And it’s very competitive. Like we, we have some real, you know, like genuinely very upset people
0:27:23 sometimes at drop time, you know, people will sit on the website as it leads up to 8pm and they’ll be
0:27:27 waiting. And if they miss out on someone they’ve had their eye on, you know, through our previews or
0:27:33 whatever, that causes genuine upset. It sounds like I’m laughing. I’m not, I find it really upsetting,
0:27:37 but that’s a really powerful thing. And it’s to, to drive that traffic that,
0:27:42 you know, is going to be there each week and to be able to track that data and watch it grow and
0:27:46 change and fluctuate, you know, throughout the year and the seasons is also really powerful.
0:27:52 And then those, the, the anticipation is primarily built through the social channels or through email
0:27:55 or like, how are you getting people pumped up for the next drop?
0:28:01 Yeah. So it’s largely socials. And we do in the kind of 24 hours ish leading up to the drop,
0:28:07 we’ll start to preview them. We put things on our stories. We do posts, we introduce a couple of the
0:28:15 stories. We use the kind of Instagram little forecasting families to give teasers. We certainly
0:28:25 do have, I think, about 40,000 subscribers to our email. And we certainly remind them of the drop and
0:28:30 give them a bit of a teaser in that too. So I would say it’s predominantly socials.
0:28:34 Was there a specific revenue target or milestone and maybe it’s getting into these, you know,
0:28:39 retail shops where you felt comfortable saying this could be a full-time thing. Like I’m going
0:28:44 all in on love before. Well, people are actually quite shocked to find out, but I actually do still
0:28:46 have another job as well. Oh, I didn’t realize that.
0:28:55 Yeah. So in true side hustle form, I started love before on the Sunday and I started an internship
0:29:00 internship at what is now my other job on the Monday. And so they have grown in parallel
0:29:06 together and fed into each other from day one. Wow. So yeah. If you ever find yourself saying,
0:29:09 well, there’s not enough hours in the day. Well, look at what Charlotte’s doing over here.
0:29:14 Yeah. It’s, it’s been a wild ride when one job has ended, the other has started. I think people
0:29:21 find it quite strange, including my own team, which is of about 15 people now that I work somewhere
0:29:26 else. But when you’re starting from absolutely nothing, you have no freedom. You have to grow
0:29:32 that freedom and we’ve never taken on investment. So I kind of consider myself my own investor,
0:29:36 you know, my, my fiance, he works full-time for the business. He manages the team and
0:29:45 people find it quite strange for sure. But yeah, I think you have to make sacrifices of all kinds as
0:29:51 an entrepreneur and investments beyond financial. And for me, it’s just been one of them so far.
0:29:55 More with Charlotte in just a moment, including growing the team, how she actually has people
0:30:01 volunteering to come work for her and some of the tools and tech she uses to manage it all coming up
0:30:07 right after this. One strategy I didn’t fully embrace or maybe wasn’t fully aware of when I was
0:30:12 starting out was this idea of the piggyback principle. In the startup phase, that means you don’t have to
0:30:17 start completely from scratch. But instead, you can take advantage of existing tools, templates,
0:30:22 playbooks, best practices from the people who’ve gone before you. A perfect example of this is our
0:30:28 partner Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses from household names
0:30:33 to side hustlers on their way to becoming household names. With hundreds of ready to use templates,
0:30:39 Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store and start selling. Plus, Shopify is packed with helpful AI
0:30:44 tools to accelerate your workflow. We’re talking product descriptions, page headlines, and even
0:30:49 enhancing your product photography. You can even easily create email and social media campaigns to
0:30:53 reach your target customers wherever they’re scrolling or strolling. If you’re ready to sell,
0:31:00 you’re ready for Shopify. Turn your big business idea into with Shopify on your side. Sign up for your one
0:31:06 dollar per month trial and start selling today at Shopify dot com slash side hustle. Go to Shopify dot com
0:31:14 slash side hustle. Shopify dot com slash side hustle. For such an important channel like phone,
0:31:20 the software powering this important channel was super outdated and clunky. We wanted to make it
0:31:26 delightful and make it very easy for businesses to connect with their customers through voice and text.
0:31:32 That’s Darina Kulia, co-founder of our sponsor, OpenPhone. Trusted by more than 60,000 customers,
0:31:37 this is the number one business phone system that streamlines and scales your customer communications.
0:31:44 We bring your calls, your messages, your contacts in one simple place and we allow you to bring in your
0:31:50 team. So you as a business owner don’t end up being the bottleneck and we really make it easy for you to
0:31:56 deliver that incredible experience. It’s all about speed, streamlined communication, team access to one
0:32:01 centralized place. I think that makes a lot of sense. Something that all of our customers love is
0:32:07 ability to have a shared phone number, which really is great for calling and texting. So when someone
0:32:12 calls you or texts you, there’s multiple people that can team up on responding and everyone is in the loop
0:32:17 about that conversation. This visibility is so critical, especially as you scale.
0:32:24 And the ability to text a business is like a new and novel thing that as a customer, I really appreciate.
0:32:30 One thing that we’ve launched at OpenPhone, which is I think a game changer, is Sona, which is our voice
0:32:37 AI agent. It basically helps you never have a single missed call. It can handle responses to any common
0:32:43 questions, basically any questions that you train it on, and then you can capture that information
0:32:47 so you can quickly follow up. We are helping businesses never lose a customer because a missed
0:32:53 call is a lost opportunity. Now, OpenPhone has automatic AI call summaries, so you don’t have to worry about
0:32:58 taking notes while you’re on the call. But another cool feature is what Darina called AI call tagging,
0:33:04 basically allowing you to quickly filter for the calls that were sales objections or customer complaints
0:33:10 requests for a discount. So you can review those and see what worked, what didn’t, and train team
0:33:16 members on the most effective tactics and language in those cases. And it’s all in the name of building
0:33:22 a better, faster, and friendlier customer experience. I want all OpenPhone customers to have five stars only.
0:33:27 Right now, OpenPhone is offering SideHustle show listeners 20% off your first six months at
0:33:37 openphone.com/sidehustle. That’s o-p-e-n-p-h-o-n-e.com/sidehustle. And if you have existing numbers with
0:33:44 another service, OpenPhone will port them over at no extra charge. OpenPhone, no missed calls, no missed customers.
0:33:50 Who was the first team member or the first couple roles that you brought on help for?
0:33:56 One was my now fiancé. So my partner’s name is Alex. We’ve been together for coming up 14 years.
0:33:58 So since I was 15 and he was 16.
0:34:00 Similar story over here. No, that’s great.
0:34:01 Oh, really?
0:34:02 High school sweethearts.
0:34:07 Oh, I love that. Well, I mean, there was a point in our lives where, you know, he’d come home from
0:34:11 work, I’d come home from work, and then I’d spend the whole night sitting on the living room floor,
0:34:16 packing orders for this strange little business that was just like in my own head at the time. And I
0:34:22 think he kind of had the thought of, okay, well, if I ever want to spend any more time with her again,
0:34:24 I think I’m going to have to jump on this ship.
0:34:25 Yeah, I’m going to have to help out, yeah.
0:34:31 Yeah. And so he did so, and he did so wholeheartedly. And I can honestly say the business
0:34:36 would not be where it is without him. He’s the kind of the other half to my brain. And so we were kind
0:34:43 of CEO, COO, and he was the first, you know, additional person. It was a no-brainer to bring him
0:34:48 along and to introduce him in. And then I’d say we kind of went through a period of having
0:34:55 a couple of different friends jump in that we would pay for bits and bobs of time just to help us fulfill
0:34:57 online orders. So packing.
0:34:59 Okay, like the logistic side.
0:35:08 Yeah, pick and pack, operational, logistic kind of side. And I suppose that’s kind of the core of our
0:35:16 team now. We do really do everything in-house. Particularly myself and Alex have kind of
0:35:22 worked out how to do all of the things in all of the roles across time. So the bulk of our team
0:35:30 are people that do the sussillment of the orders. And so like, for example, I can focus on growing
0:35:36 the business and extending it into the different directions. Yeah, we call them now officially,
0:35:38 they are junior cuddle coordinators.
0:35:43 Well, one thing that’s interesting is there’s a little volunteer tab on the website.
0:35:43 Yeah.
0:35:48 And do you get people offering their help? They just love the brand. They love the story so
0:35:49 much. They want to work for you for free.
0:35:55 It’s wild. We get so many. So I had to build this section of the website because each and
0:36:00 every day we would get people saying, you know, I want to quit my whole life and move across the
0:36:02 world to join this business.
0:36:03 Wow. That’s incredible.
0:36:09 I could show you thousands of entries across this from around the world of people who want to
0:36:14 either join the team or help bring this to their corner of the world. Or, you know,
0:36:19 as you say, volunteer for us. We do have a few members of the team now who are
0:36:23 volunteering, particularly on the like customer services side. We’re fortunate enough to have
0:36:30 made it onto a platform called We Make Change. You have to prove that you’re a business that’s
0:36:35 genuinely doing something positive and, you know, making change to get on there.
0:36:39 Wow. Okay. Is it technically, I know there’s a charitable component with, you know,
0:36:42 donating profits, but it’s not technically a nonprofit business, is it?
0:36:50 Absolutely not. And that was a really strong strategic decision from my side. For me,
0:36:57 if we’re truly to change the way the industry is going, you have to take it away from this just
0:37:03 being like teddy bears in charity shops. This is a business. This is a business that, you know,
0:37:07 off its own back chooses to do good. And like you say, supports charity in a number of ways.
0:37:14 But this is a business that I want to be, and is competing with the world’s biggest stuffed animal
0:37:21 brands, like a household name. This isn’t just a charity. This is a business that’s doing good.
0:37:23 And yeah, a proper business.
0:37:30 Got it. Yeah. In coordinating the team and coordinating the retail effort and the accepting donations,
0:37:35 the cleanup process and the online sales effort, I was going to ask if there’s any tools or software
0:37:42 or tech that you swear by that you rely on to help keep tabs on this growing empire while
0:37:44 still working the other job too.
0:37:53 For me, as a kind of, I guess, creative, as well as a business owner, I work best in platforms like
0:37:59 Figma. And so Figma is like a cloud-based kind of design platform, which is a collaborative tool
0:38:06 that I use as a bit of a whiteboard and workshop space, but also somewhere where I create deliverables
0:38:07 and design proper things.
0:38:14 The reality is a lot of this business is built in spreadsheets. This is Alex’s specialist area,
0:38:23 but he has built some incredible, incredible spreadsheets that underlie that secret source space.
0:38:31 But the fact that we have each product individually photographed and has to be checked and all their
0:38:36 safety information inputted and all of that, and in one button that uploads to our website.
0:38:41 Yeah, that’s such a logistical, you don’t think about it, the managing inventory, hundreds of sales
0:38:46 a week. And it’s not like, well, there’s 25 of this one item. It’s like everything is individualized.
0:38:49 So now I got to go delete that row or market is sold. And it’s like, absolutely have to build
0:38:52 a process around that. Otherwise it’s just going to break immediately.
0:38:59 I hope that the magic of this business is that it comes across as this simple, beautiful concept.
0:39:08 The reality is that we’ve had to break and build every part of it. You know, we exist in a weird
0:39:15 gray space. We’re not a traditional toy brand, nor are we a traditional reseller. We fall in between
0:39:22 spaces. And so we’ve had to break and remake all the systems. And it is sometimes people will say,
0:39:29 well, I’m going to poppy you and do this myself. And honestly, I’m like, good luck, good luck for you.
0:39:36 The complexity that sits behind it. And I think that particularly sits behind going from selling
0:39:45 10 to, you know, sending us a thousand in a week is infrastructure, but we’d need like now scientists
0:39:45 in the background.
0:39:49 Well, you might call it a gray space. Others might call it a blue ocean where it’s like,
0:39:53 there’s nobody else competing in this specific sub niche. So I think that works. It looks like the
0:39:58 website itself is powered by Wix. Anything else on the tools and tech side?
0:40:06 I think recently, and this comes with increased cash flow is, is using tools like it sounds so
0:40:12 silly, but zero and accounting tools. There are so many spaces as an entrepreneur where you can
0:40:21 pour in your energy and so much energy. But if you can afford to, that energy can be so much better spent
0:40:27 in other directions if you can just plug something simple in. And I think that particularly, you know,
0:40:31 I know it sounds boring to just be like, get accounting software, but it’s, it’s not. And it’s,
0:40:37 you know, once you reach that point, it’s like a massive, massive weight lifted off your shoulders
0:40:44 on the actual operational side. So obviously each toy comes with a bio. And at the very start,
0:40:50 I would handwrite them all. I’ve actually got a lump on my finger, which is from writing,
0:40:54 you know, hundreds and hundreds per day. And it’s really painful and I can’t do it anymore.
0:41:01 But at that point, you know, we had to work out, okay, well, how do we mass write cards? And we
0:41:06 couldn’t afford the printer that would take the cardstock that would allow that. So we managed
0:41:12 to get our hands on a, on a robot and Alex programmed this robot to hold a pen.
0:41:13 What?
0:41:20 I’ve got footage of this. It’s quite incredible. And the robot would communicate with the computer
0:41:26 who would, you know, send the story to it. And we, in the end, we even programmed another robot.
0:41:28 So we had Isaac was our first handwriting robot.
0:41:30 A handwriting robot.
0:41:37 Yeah. Incredible. And then we had Margot Roby, who would pick up the card to give it to Isaac,
0:41:42 because obviously you’ve got, you know, it’s all well at writing the cards, but it’s not helpful if
0:41:44 you have to sit there all night handing it a card to write.
0:41:46 Babysitting the robot, sure.
0:41:52 Yeah. So Margot would use a suction arm to hand the card to Isaac, who would communicate with the
0:41:58 computer and write the story using an actual biro. And, you know, we went from there. And we did that
0:42:03 until we reached the point where we could afford the ridiculous printer. But then, even then, we didn’t
0:42:08 want to lose that handwritten touch. So it’s like built around my handwriting and all of this, you know,
0:42:15 that’s the side to the tech that I think you just have to go through the works of and the processes of
0:42:17 and the trial and error of.
0:42:21 Yeah. That’s kind of crazy. We go through this, you know, elimination, automation,
0:42:22 delegation type of framework.
0:42:23 Absolutely.
0:42:27 What gives you energy? Where’s your time best spent? Like, okay, is there a way to automate it?
0:42:32 It turns out we could automate handwriting pretty well with a robot. I never knew that that was a thing.
0:42:33 Yes.
0:42:38 Very cool. I was going to ask, going back to that point about where you’re spending your energy,
0:42:43 what’s a day in the life look like for you if there is such thing as a typical, you know,
0:42:45 typical Tuesday and in the day of Charlotte?
0:42:51 I would say that there definitely is no typical day in my life. A day in my life really has very
0:43:00 little pattern or routine. I spend, I’d say, a lot of my time on calls kind of growing the business,
0:43:06 whether that’s with new retailers or, you know, partnerships and talking to new people. I do a lot
0:43:12 of interviews, you know, a year or two ago. I was the one that was up through the night packing orders,
0:43:17 but I’ve moved since further away from that operational side into the kind of growing the
0:43:18 business. Yeah.
0:43:24 Yeah. So a lot of my day is, is telling our story in various different directions. It’s
0:43:29 working with different people to work out how to tell the story alongside them.
0:43:33 Yeah. Well, the press loves you. I don’t know how my listener came across you, but I mean,
0:43:39 we’ve got features in BBC and The Guardian and dozens of other outlets here. What’s surprised
0:43:42 you the most over the last four or five years of building this thing?
0:43:49 I could probably do a whole podcast episode on mistakes and surprises. No, I feel like there’s a
0:43:57 moment, a turning point where you realize that you actually appreciate the surprises and the failures
0:44:03 and the mistakes more than the successes, because they teach you so much more than anything else ever
0:44:08 could. So I feel like that’s the point where I’m at. And I can look back a lot of the moments that we have
0:44:17 had in a very different light. You grow in maturity as a business owner quite rapidly. And if I look at
0:44:24 some of the decisions I made earlier on, and frankly, some of the ways in which I was taken advantage of
0:44:31 by other businesses, for example, were quite shocking. And I think we’ve grown a lot since then. We’ve had
0:44:37 packaging that’s arrived totally wrong. And we’ve spent huge amounts of money on, you know,
0:44:45 moments where we’ve lost every penny that we had, even stuff like almost burning down our whole office
0:44:49 and workshop by accident. The learnings around that kind of thing.
0:44:55 Love Before has facilitated over 10,000 adoptions. What’s next? Where are you taking this thing? More
0:44:59 retail partnerships? What does the future hold? Fluffy world domination, for sure.
0:45:00 Nice.
0:45:06 I think that looks like many different things. The goal is absolute household name. You know,
0:45:12 when someone thinks about a stuffed animal, whether that’s buying, donating or getting rid of,
0:45:18 learning how to care for, I want them to think of us and for us to be the authority in that. We will be
0:45:26 soon expanding our services into, for example, the spa side more so people can send in their toys and
0:45:30 have them pampered and sparred and sent back to them. You know, so building out more services based
0:45:37 on the capabilities that we’ve built in-house. I think having our own stores one day, as well as
0:45:44 expanding into retailers across the world. Currently, and this is, well, I don’t know if I should say this,
0:45:46 writing a book in the background.
0:45:48 In your spare time, geez.
0:45:55 In my spare zero time. But yeah, you know, when I say world domination, I really mean it. I want to be
0:46:01 everywhere in every touch point that exists that a stuffed animal does. It’s not just about, you know,
0:46:06 selling them in the beautiful boxes. But when you go to a theme park, for example, and you see them all
0:46:12 stuffed in a machine with a grabbing, you know, a grab machine, you know, why do they have to be produced
0:46:18 new and shipped over from China? Why aren’t we using the ones we already have for those kind of
0:46:23 things? So I think developing the proposition from what it is now into, like I said, every touch point
0:46:25 that interacts with a stuffed animal.
0:46:30 Yeah, you got to work both sides, the supply side, we got to keep up the volume of donations to keep
0:46:36 up with the demand on the sales side. I love the idea of spinning off, starting a side hustle on the
0:46:39 side hustle, we can have a spa service, send them to us, we’ll send you back. I think that’s really cool
0:46:46 and excited to see where it all goes. And today, you’re supporting Make-A-Wish UK with half of all
0:46:53 profits donated to charitable causes. Loved before that London is where you can check out the sustainable
0:46:59 stuffed animal adoption agency. Charlotte is at the fluffy CEO, if you want to follow her personal
0:47:04 account. Let’s wrap this thing up with your number one tip for side hustle nation, particularly as a
0:47:10 founder, who is really trying to change the world. The top tip is about building something that makes
0:47:19 people feel something. I think connection is the most underrated currency in business. And it’s
0:47:26 something that’s massively under-recognized. Anyone can sell stuff, but you have to, behind that,
0:47:32 build a brand that people come back to, that they believe in, that they tell others about.
0:47:36 Yeah, that people threaten to quit their jobs and move across the world and try and volunteer for you.
0:47:40 Exactly that. People do, and some of my team have. They’ve given up their whole lives to come across
0:47:47 them because they believe in it so deeply. You have to stir something in people. Because I think
0:47:53 something I always say is that feeling leads to following. That following is where you build trust,
0:47:59 and that trust is where you see magic. I like that. Feeling leads to following.
0:48:06 Yeah. Feeling leads to following. And this is that community-first approach. Brand before business,
0:48:09 before product, before anything else. Make people feel.
0:48:14 Yeah, that’s great. That was one of the things that I wrote down was your line. When somebody comes
0:48:19 across your profile or your site, they should feel like they just met their new best friend. It’s like
0:48:24 that kind of gut, first response, reaction, almost love at first sight type of thing. “Hey, these people get
0:48:29 me. This person gets me, right?” And like, “Yes, I want to follow that.” Feeling leads to following.
0:48:33 That’s great. The other takeaway that I put down was find that gray space. You know,
0:48:39 find that blue ocean. John Lee Dumas calls it, “Be the best, be the worst, be the only.” And it’s like,
0:48:43 if you can niche down to the point where you could say, “We’re the best stuff toy adoption agency. We’re
0:48:47 the worst because we’re the only. We’re the only game in town.” If you want this type of thing,
0:48:53 find that gray space. Loved this conversation. Again, loved before that London. If you’re listening
0:48:57 to this, you want to make extra money, you’re not sure which path to take, I want to invite
0:49:01 you to take our free two minute quiz at hustle.show. You can do it right from your phone. And then based
0:49:07 on your answers, it’s going to point you hopefully in the right direction with a custom curated list of
0:49:13 eight to 10 side hustle show episodes from the greatest hits archives, what to listen to next. Again,
0:49:17 that’s hustle.show. A few short questions about your side hustle interests, your goals,
0:49:21 and then you can add that personalized playlist to your device. You can learn what works from
0:49:26 some of our top guests and then go out and make some more money. Again, big thanks to Charlotte for
0:49:31 sharing her insight. Big thanks to our sponsors for helping make this content free for everyone.
0:49:37 Sidehustlenation.com/deals is the spot to go to find all the latest offers from our sponsors in one
0:49:41 place. That is it for me. Thank you so much for tuning in. If you’re finding value in the show,
0:49:45 the greatest compliment is to share it with a friend. So fire off that text message. Hey,
0:49:50 you got to check this out. I know you’re going to love it until next time. Oh, let’s go out there
0:49:55 and make something happen. And I’ll catch you in the next edition of the side hustle show. Hustle on.
What if you could turn something destined for the landfill into a thriving business that’s now sold in luxury stores like Selfridges and Bloomingdale’s?
Charlotte Liebling noticed a heartbreaking problem while volunteering at a charity shop: donated stuffed animals were going straight into the bin or being sold as dog toys, despite the love and memories attached to them.
Instead of accepting this waste, Charlotte saw an opportunity. She created Love Before, what she calls a “sustainable soft toy adoption agency” that’s now facilitated over 10,000 adoptions and built partnerships with some of the world’s most prestigious retailers.
Charlotte runs it while still working another full-time job, proving that with the right systems and passionate community, you can scale a side hustle to impressive heights.
Tune in to Episode 679of the Side Hustle Show to learn:
- How to find profitable opportunities in waste streams
- Creative marketing strategies that cost zero dollars
- Building retail partnerships with luxury brands
Full Show Notes: Free Inventory: The Sustainable Stuffed Animal Side Hustle
New to the Show? Get your personalized money-making playlist here!
Sponsors:
Mint Mobile — Cut your wireless bill to $15 a month!
Indeed – Start hiring NOW with a $75 sponsored job credit to upgrade your job post!
OpenPhone — Get 20% off of your first 6 months!
Shopify — Sign up for a $1 per month trial!
Leave a Reply