693: Renting Out Websites? How to Build Recurring Revenue with Simple, Local Sites

0:00:03 Getting paid to rent out websites.
0:00:05 You know I love a good rental side hustle,
0:00:07 recurring revenue, strong ROI,
0:00:10 but in this example, there’s no equipment to buy,
0:00:12 there’s no delivery logistics to deal with,
0:00:14 there’s no tenants trashing your place,
0:00:17 which leads to some really strong margins.
0:00:19 My guest is a longtime Side Hustle Show listener
0:00:22 who recently started building and renting out
0:00:24 simple local websites.
0:00:25 Now it makes sense, right?
0:00:27 Websites are digital real estate,
0:00:29 and if the location is right,
0:00:32 namely, if it shows up at the top of Google,
0:00:34 that could be worth quite a bit to the right tenant.
0:00:38 So from countrankseo.com, John Michael,
0:00:39 welcome to the Side Hustle Show.
0:00:41 Thanks for having me, Nick.
0:00:42 I absolutely love your show.
0:00:43 I think it’s fantastic.
0:00:45 Yeah, I’m always excited to see your name
0:00:46 pop across the inbox,
0:00:49 and you’ve been in the game for quite a while.
0:00:51 But stick around in this one.
0:00:52 We’re going soup to nuts
0:00:54 on how to come up with profitable niches here,
0:00:56 how to build and rank those sites,
0:00:59 and how to find those well-qualified tenants
0:01:02 along with the surprising new Side Hustle
0:01:03 that this project has unlocked.
0:01:05 But John, my understanding is
0:01:07 this started relatively recently,
0:01:08 just this year in February,
0:01:09 and I’m curious,
0:01:12 how long does it take to start seeing
0:01:13 your first revenue here?
0:01:16 It took me about two and a half months
0:01:18 before I saw anything coming in,
0:01:18 and you know,
0:01:20 that was real exciting.
0:01:21 You know, we got a lead,
0:01:22 and we got paid on it.
0:01:23 Somebody actually, you know,
0:01:24 writing a check.
0:01:26 What was the lead for,
0:01:27 if you’re comfortable sharing?
0:01:27 Yeah, no,
0:01:29 it was for gravel driveways
0:01:31 in a city in California.
0:01:33 We did a lot of research on it,
0:01:34 came up with a plan,
0:01:35 created a website,
0:01:37 and we were able to get some money coming in.
0:01:38 How fascinating.
0:01:39 So,
0:01:41 you build up this website
0:01:42 in the gravel and driveway niche
0:01:43 for, I’m assuming,
0:01:44 a local city in California,
0:01:46 and then customers
0:01:47 or potential customers
0:01:48 start coming to the website
0:01:48 and say,
0:01:49 I need this job done,
0:01:51 and then are you answering the phone?
0:01:53 Are you taking intake
0:01:54 over an email form
0:01:55 and then trying to find
0:01:56 a contractor
0:01:58 or a qualified service provider
0:01:59 to go out and do that work?
0:01:59 Yeah,
0:02:01 so that’s a big part of it.
0:02:01 I want to say
0:02:02 on the front of this,
0:02:04 I told you I’ve been listening
0:02:05 to your show for a long time.
0:02:07 I heard Luke Vanderveer,
0:02:08 website rental coach,
0:02:09 Coaching,
0:02:10 I think is what it is.
0:02:11 He did an episode with you
0:02:13 probably about four years ago or so,
0:02:14 and I heard that one.
0:02:16 And then I also heard you
0:02:17 talking to one of his students
0:02:18 at one point.
0:02:19 Her name is Meow.
0:02:20 And,
0:02:20 you know,
0:02:22 I love both of those episodes,
0:02:23 and that’s what kind of
0:02:24 attracted me,
0:02:26 prompted my action,
0:02:26 if you will,
0:02:27 to go ahead
0:02:28 and create these sites.
0:02:29 And so,
0:02:30 but your question is,
0:02:30 you know,
0:02:31 what do you do?
0:02:31 So,
0:02:32 here’s the,
0:02:32 in fact,
0:02:33 I just got a lead
0:02:34 from that one yesterday,
0:02:37 and it was a 700-foot
0:02:38 gravel driveway,
0:02:40 and I have to kind of
0:02:41 call some contractors
0:02:42 in the area,
0:02:43 and a big piece of this
0:02:44 is trying to figure out,
0:02:46 who do you want to work with?
0:02:46 You know,
0:02:48 what’s the relationship like?
0:02:49 Do you vibe with them,
0:02:49 right?
0:02:50 And,
0:02:52 and you have to have a conversation
0:02:53 and a business relationship
0:02:54 with them
0:02:54 and make sure,
0:02:55 first of all,
0:02:56 that they’re okay
0:02:57 with accepting leads.
0:02:58 And then you kind of start
0:03:00 to test drive,
0:03:01 if you will,
0:03:02 that particular relationship.
0:03:04 You see where it goes,
0:03:04 and then,
0:03:05 hopefully,
0:03:06 you want to rent them
0:03:07 out the site,
0:03:08 just kind of get out
0:03:09 of the middle
0:03:10 and direct all those calls
0:03:11 to them.
0:03:12 We use an app
0:03:13 called CallRail,
0:03:16 and within CallRail,
0:03:17 you put a number
0:03:18 on the site,
0:03:19 they call it,
0:03:21 you get the leads in,
0:03:22 but what I’ve done
0:03:23 with a couple of my sites
0:03:25 is I just have those leads
0:03:26 or those calls
0:03:27 or those messages,
0:03:28 you can also use now,
0:03:29 the text messages,
0:03:31 go right to the business owner
0:03:32 and I kind of get out
0:03:33 of the middle.
0:03:33 Now,
0:03:35 I can hear what’s going on
0:03:36 from the recording
0:03:37 and kind of see
0:03:37 if those people
0:03:38 are qualified
0:03:39 and if they’re,
0:03:40 you know,
0:03:41 I get a good idea
0:03:41 that they’re going
0:03:42 to move forward
0:03:43 with the business,
0:03:44 but that’s how
0:03:44 it works,
0:03:44 basically.
0:03:45 Okay,
0:03:45 and that’s,
0:03:46 maybe that’s a little bit
0:03:47 down the road,
0:03:48 that’s like a great scenario
0:03:49 where you’re no longer,
0:03:50 if I’m there,
0:03:51 you just have a tenant
0:03:52 where say for 500 bucks
0:03:52 a month,
0:03:53 1,000 bucks a month,
0:03:54 whatever it is,
0:03:54 you just,
0:03:55 all of the leads
0:03:56 from the site
0:03:57 are going straight to you,
0:03:57 right?
0:03:58 I don’t even need to be
0:03:59 in this picture anymore.
0:04:00 It sounds like early on,
0:04:01 you may not,
0:04:02 you may not have
0:04:04 the critical mass
0:04:04 of traction and stuff
0:04:06 to justify somebody,
0:04:06 you know,
0:04:07 who’s signing up
0:04:08 for that recurring service,
0:04:09 but it’s like,
0:04:09 hey,
0:04:10 as these leads come in,
0:04:11 onesie twosies,
0:04:12 would you,
0:04:12 do you want to play ball?
0:04:13 Like,
0:04:13 would you be interested
0:04:15 in buying these from me?
0:04:15 That’s right.
0:04:16 And there’s two different
0:04:17 ways to do it.
0:04:18 Either you can get
0:04:19 the business owner
0:04:20 beforehand,
0:04:20 you can say,
0:04:21 hey,
0:04:21 listen,
0:04:22 I’m thinking about
0:04:23 building out a
0:04:25 plumbing in Rochester
0:04:27 lead generation site.
0:04:28 I noticed that
0:04:29 you’re doing very well
0:04:30 with your reviews
0:04:32 on Google and such,
0:04:33 and it doesn’t look like
0:04:34 you really have
0:04:35 much of a website presence.
0:04:37 Would you want to
0:04:38 partner with me on this?
0:04:40 And so you go into it
0:04:41 with the partnership
0:04:42 and you can build out
0:04:43 the lead generation site
0:04:45 or you can actually
0:04:46 build the site,
0:04:46 you know,
0:04:47 build it and they will come.
0:04:49 So you build out the site,
0:04:50 you wait till the leads
0:04:50 start coming in
0:04:51 and then you reach out
0:04:52 to people in the area
0:04:54 either through Facebook
0:04:55 or Craigslist
0:04:55 or Google
0:04:57 or wherever you find them
0:04:58 and you say,
0:04:58 hey,
0:04:59 I’ve got these leads
0:05:00 coming in.
0:05:01 I’m looking for one person
0:05:03 to work with in the area.
0:05:04 Would you be open
0:05:05 to doing something like that?
0:05:06 And then you just see
0:05:07 where the conversation
0:05:07 goes from there.
0:05:09 This is maybe
0:05:11 one of my question marks
0:05:12 around this
0:05:13 because it seems like
0:05:15 in these blue collar
0:05:16 type of service provider
0:05:17 industries,
0:05:18 right?
0:05:19 Anybody who’s good
0:05:20 at what they do,
0:05:21 they have that reputation
0:05:23 is like they’re booked solid
0:05:24 for sometimes months
0:05:25 and they’re like,
0:05:25 no,
0:05:26 we don’t need any more leads.
0:05:27 We’re drowning in the leads
0:05:27 that we’ve got.
0:05:28 And so it’s like
0:05:29 trying to find that person
0:05:31 who has a good reputation,
0:05:32 is good at what they do
0:05:34 and yet is still hungry
0:05:35 to continue
0:05:35 to grow the business.
0:05:36 Can you speak
0:05:37 to that at all?
0:05:38 That’s it.
0:05:38 Exactly.
0:05:39 I’ve talked to both
0:05:41 multiple times.
0:05:42 Some people are going,
0:05:42 oh, man,
0:05:44 I just can’t handle
0:05:44 any more leads.
0:05:45 And I’m like,
0:05:45 well, great.
0:05:46 I’m glad,
0:05:47 you know,
0:05:48 keep up the good work.
0:05:49 But there are other people
0:05:51 who, like you said,
0:05:52 they do very good work,
0:05:52 right?
0:05:53 They’re very talented.
0:05:53 In fact,
0:05:55 the guy who came by one day
0:05:57 worked on my garage.
0:05:58 He was really talented.
0:05:59 I started asking him
0:06:00 some questions
0:06:01 about what kind
0:06:02 of site he has.
0:06:02 he says,
0:06:03 well,
0:06:04 we don’t have a site.
0:06:04 And I said,
0:06:05 what happened
0:06:05 with your Google
0:06:06 My Business profile?
0:06:07 He,
0:06:07 well,
0:06:08 it got denied.
0:06:09 And so we had
0:06:09 a whole conversation
0:06:10 about,
0:06:10 you know,
0:06:12 what we could
0:06:13 or couldn’t do for him
0:06:14 because he did great work.
0:06:15 He had a little bit
0:06:16 of broken English,
0:06:18 but he did great work.
0:06:19 And we loved him,
0:06:20 me and my wife.
0:06:22 And so there are
0:06:23 those kind of people
0:06:24 out there all the time
0:06:25 that do great work,
0:06:26 but they just don’t know
0:06:28 how anything about SEO
0:06:29 or how to set up
0:06:29 a website
0:06:31 or anything like that.
0:06:31 If they don’t have
0:06:33 a great online presence,
0:06:35 how are you finding them
0:06:36 initially to connect
0:06:37 and do that initial outreach?
0:06:37 Hey,
0:06:38 I got leads to sell.
0:06:41 I find a lot of my people
0:06:42 that I’m going to work with
0:06:43 in Facebook groups.
0:06:44 I’ll go to Facebook groups
0:06:46 in that particular city
0:06:47 and I’ll just sort of
0:06:48 looking at people
0:06:48 that are kind of
0:06:50 advertising their services
0:06:51 and I’ll look at their website,
0:06:52 see what it’s like,
0:06:53 and then I’ll look at
0:06:55 their Google My Business profile.
0:06:56 And I can see that
0:06:57 they’re doing a lot of work,
0:06:59 but I’ll have a conversation
0:07:00 with them and say,
0:07:01 I see you’re doing
0:07:02 a lot of work.
0:07:03 Would you be interested
0:07:05 in actually setting up
0:07:05 a website?
0:07:06 Would you be interested
0:07:07 in working with me
0:07:07 on these leads?
0:07:08 And he can also post
0:07:10 inside of a Craigslist
0:07:11 or something like that
0:07:12 and try to find some people.
0:07:13 You say,
0:07:14 I’m working in this industry.
0:07:16 I’m looking for one person
0:07:16 to work with.
0:07:18 Would you be that individual?
0:07:18 Okay.
0:07:20 I like this Facebook group angle
0:07:21 because this is how we found
0:07:23 several different contractors.
0:07:24 It’s like,
0:07:25 in a lot of these threads,
0:07:27 they might be a couple years old,
0:07:27 but it’s like,
0:07:28 I’m looking for a painter.
0:07:29 I’m looking for a plumber.
0:07:30 I’m looking for
0:07:31 the garage repair person.
0:07:32 And sure enough,
0:07:33 there’s some recommendations
0:07:33 in there.
0:07:34 That’s right.
0:07:36 And people respond to that.
0:07:37 The business owners
0:07:37 respond to that
0:07:38 and they say,
0:07:39 hey, I can do that work.
0:07:40 Sometimes they’ll put up
0:07:41 pictures of what they do
0:07:42 and that’s the kind of people
0:07:42 you go,
0:07:44 okay, they’re responding to it.
0:07:45 They want work.
0:07:46 And that’s the other conversation
0:07:47 you have with them
0:07:48 when you talk to them.
0:07:49 How are you getting leads now?
0:07:50 Right?
0:07:51 Are you paying for leads?
0:07:52 Are you doing Google ads?
0:07:54 Or are they on Thumbtack?
0:07:56 Are they on Angie’s list?
0:07:57 And what we can do,
0:07:58 we see that they’re actually
0:07:59 paying for leads already
0:08:01 and we can replace that
0:08:03 as opposed to
0:08:04 being an additional cost.
0:08:05 Got it.
0:08:05 Got it.
0:08:07 In these early stages
0:08:08 when you’re just selling
0:08:10 them one-off
0:08:10 before you have,
0:08:11 you know,
0:08:13 that ideal long-term tenant,
0:08:14 quote-unquote,
0:08:15 in place for the site,
0:08:16 is there a rule of thumb
0:08:16 for like,
0:08:18 what’s a lead worth to you?
0:08:19 Or what’s a qualified
0:08:20 prospect worth to you?
0:08:21 Imagine this gravel driveway
0:08:22 is a pretty sizable project.
0:08:23 Right.
0:08:24 So, for example,
0:08:25 what did I say?
0:08:26 It was like 700 feet
0:08:26 was going to be
0:08:28 the gravel driveway, right?
0:08:28 It was going to be about,
0:08:29 it’s going to be about
0:08:31 a $20,000 deal.
0:08:31 And so,
0:08:33 when you’re doing that,
0:08:33 you kind of think,
0:08:34 okay,
0:08:35 well, number one,
0:08:36 you got to think about
0:08:37 how much profit
0:08:38 are they actually making
0:08:38 on this, right?
0:08:39 Yeah.
0:08:40 How much is built into it?
0:08:41 And every industry
0:08:43 is a little bit different.
0:08:43 And you got to think
0:08:44 about the percentages,
0:08:46 how much they’re paying,
0:08:47 what the profit is,
0:08:48 what is acceptable
0:08:49 in the industry.
0:08:51 And you do a little research online,
0:08:52 you get to figure out,
0:08:52 you know,
0:08:52 okay,
0:08:54 this is what an average price is.
0:08:56 This is what the average profit is.
0:08:57 And then you go in,
0:08:57 I don’t know,
0:08:58 5%,
0:08:59 10%,
0:09:00 and you just have
0:09:01 a conversation with them.
0:09:02 I like to start at 10%
0:09:04 and then maybe back it up
0:09:04 to 5%.
0:09:06 But I don’t want it
0:09:08 to be so overwhelming
0:09:08 to them
0:09:09 that they don’t want
0:09:10 to work with me anymore,
0:09:11 right?
0:09:12 So there’s a real sweet spot.
0:09:15 And when you’re renting out a site,
0:09:16 it’s the same thing,
0:09:16 right?
0:09:18 You want them to see
0:09:19 that they are getting
0:09:21 a fair shake
0:09:22 because you want to be
0:09:23 partners with them
0:09:25 for a very long time
0:09:26 once it gets started.
0:09:26 Yeah.
0:09:27 And if this is a company
0:09:28 that’s been used to paying
0:09:30 for leads on Thumbtack
0:09:31 or Angie’s List,
0:09:32 they kind of have a sense
0:09:34 of what their customer
0:09:35 acquisition cost already is.
0:09:37 And so if you can come in
0:09:38 and kind of match that number
0:09:39 or beat it,
0:09:40 then that’s okay.
0:09:41 Your margins are going to be
0:09:42 roughly the same
0:09:42 as what they were
0:09:43 or maybe even
0:09:44 a little bit better.
0:09:45 So I think that makes sense.
0:09:46 You mentioned the episode
0:09:47 with Luke.
0:09:48 That was episode 448
0:09:50 in the archives.
0:09:52 Website rentalcoaching.com
0:09:53 slash SHN
0:09:54 was the referral link
0:09:55 that he gave me
0:09:56 for his program.
0:09:56 I think it’s kind of
0:09:58 a little intro video there.
0:09:59 And then meow,
0:10:01 that episode was 597.
0:10:03 One of the most popular episodes,
0:10:04 I think it was last year
0:10:04 or the year before
0:10:05 where we aired that one.
0:10:06 But really cool episode
0:10:07 where she was focusing
0:10:10 on some international markets.
0:10:11 Like she was from New Zealand.
0:10:12 So it’s like Auckland,
0:10:12 New Zealand,
0:10:14 driveway,
0:10:15 maybe,
0:10:15 you know,
0:10:15 some,
0:10:16 you know,
0:10:17 very specific types
0:10:17 of keywords.
0:10:18 So does it make sense
0:10:19 to start there
0:10:21 on the city level
0:10:22 and then go into the industry
0:10:23 or their particular industries
0:10:24 that you like,
0:10:25 kind of a lot of moving
0:10:26 chess pieces here
0:10:27 to kind of align up
0:10:28 and put all together?
0:10:29 Yeah,
0:10:30 so it just takes
0:10:30 some research
0:10:31 on the front end.
0:10:33 There are about 14
0:10:35 or 15 sort of criteria
0:10:36 that you want to look at
0:10:37 when you’re searching.
0:10:37 Number one,
0:10:39 you want to select the niche
0:10:40 and then you’re looking
0:10:41 at the population,
0:10:41 right?
0:10:42 When Luke,
0:10:43 what Luke says
0:10:44 is he recommends
0:10:45 anywhere from 40,000 people
0:10:47 to 400,000 people,
0:10:47 right?
0:10:48 You don’t want to get too big
0:10:49 and you don’t want
0:10:50 to get too small.
0:10:50 You want to make sure
0:10:51 that there are businesses
0:10:52 in the area
0:10:54 that you can work with
0:10:54 if you start
0:10:55 to get some leads.
0:10:56 and I’m not going
0:10:57 to go through
0:10:58 all 15 points
0:10:59 but basically
0:11:01 what I am looking for
0:11:02 at a real high level
0:11:03 before I get down
0:11:04 into the granular level
0:11:07 is how many reviews
0:11:08 do the top three businesses
0:11:10 in the maps have?
0:11:10 In fact,
0:11:11 if people don’t have
0:11:12 a Google My Business
0:11:13 profile set up,
0:11:14 that’s something
0:11:15 they want to look at
0:11:17 and so if I look
0:11:18 at the top three businesses
0:11:19 in the maps
0:11:20 and the first one
0:11:22 has 130 reviews
0:11:24 and they’re all 5.0
0:11:24 or 4.9
0:11:26 and then the second one
0:11:28 has 49 reviews
0:11:29 and then the third one
0:11:31 has 68 reviews
0:11:31 and they’re all
0:11:32 really high.
0:11:33 Well,
0:11:34 that’s a pretty
0:11:36 competitive niche
0:11:36 that you’re looking
0:11:37 at right there,
0:11:38 right?
0:11:38 For like
0:11:40 travel driveways
0:11:41 in Boston
0:11:42 or something like that
0:11:43 would probably be
0:11:45 really highly ranked
0:11:46 and then the other thing
0:11:47 that I’m looking for
0:11:48 are there businesses
0:11:50 in those top three
0:11:50 there
0:11:51 that don’t have
0:11:52 a website
0:11:53 and if they don’t
0:11:54 have a website,
0:11:54 that means
0:11:55 there’s not a lot
0:11:55 of competition,
0:11:56 right?
0:11:56 There’s people there
0:11:58 that are in the maps
0:11:59 but they don’t know
0:12:00 how to set up a website
0:12:01 or they don’t want
0:12:02 to set up a website
0:12:04 and you can take over
0:12:05 those positions
0:12:06 and you also want
0:12:07 to look for things
0:12:08 like are there
0:12:10 small businesses
0:12:11 in the area
0:12:12 that you can work with?
0:12:13 Are you seeing
0:12:14 things there
0:12:15 that would allow
0:12:15 you to have
0:12:16 a partnership
0:12:17 with another business
0:12:18 and you always want
0:12:19 to look at
0:12:19 the websites
0:12:20 that they have
0:12:21 but also you want
0:12:21 to look for
0:12:24 the organic searches
0:12:26 like how many companies
0:12:27 are coming up
0:12:28 in the organic searches
0:12:31 for gravel driveways
0:12:31 in Boston
0:12:32 and are they good?
0:12:33 Are they something
0:12:35 that is not a directory
0:12:35 like Yelp
0:12:37 or any of the other
0:12:38 citation blogs,
0:12:38 right?
0:12:39 Are they not a directory?
0:12:41 And so you could just see
0:12:42 you could tell
0:12:43 at a real quick glance
0:12:44 from doing a search
0:12:45 whether a niche
0:12:46 is competitive
0:12:46 or not.
0:12:47 Yeah.
0:12:48 Is there a rule
0:12:48 for,
0:12:49 like imagine
0:12:50 if the town
0:12:51 is too small
0:12:52 well there may only be
0:12:54 one or two players
0:12:54 there.
0:12:55 Is that kind of
0:12:56 a red flag?
0:12:58 Like well there’s
0:12:59 I need a broader
0:13:01 pool to try
0:13:02 and do business with.
0:13:03 It is.
0:13:04 Yeah because you may
0:13:05 be able to rank
0:13:05 number one there
0:13:06 but if you don’t
0:13:08 have any business
0:13:09 owner to partner with
0:13:10 it’s really not
0:13:10 going to matter
0:13:12 or if there is
0:13:13 not really a demand
0:13:14 in that area
0:13:15 you’re not going to
0:13:16 it’s not going
0:13:17 to be fruitful.
0:13:18 Are you looking
0:13:18 at the search
0:13:19 volume around
0:13:21 certain keywords
0:13:21 as well?
0:13:22 Yeah so usually
0:13:23 what we’re looking
0:13:23 for with the
0:13:24 search volume
0:13:26 is not so much
0:13:28 like a local
0:13:28 search.
0:13:29 What you want
0:13:29 to look for
0:13:30 is like gravel
0:13:31 driveways,
0:13:31 right?
0:13:32 You go into
0:13:33 SEMrush or you
0:13:34 go into any
0:13:35 of the tools
0:13:35 that are out
0:13:36 there and you
0:13:37 think okay
0:13:38 gravel driveways
0:13:39 how many people
0:13:39 are actually
0:13:40 searching gravel
0:13:41 driveways within
0:13:42 the nation?
0:13:42 And if you
0:13:43 could see that
0:13:44 they’re searching
0:13:45 there’s a lot
0:13:46 of search
0:13:47 there where
0:13:47 you’re going
0:13:47 to know
0:13:48 it’s something
0:13:48 that people
0:13:49 are searching
0:13:50 now you can’t
0:13:50 tell exactly
0:13:51 what people
0:13:51 are searching
0:13:52 in that
0:13:53 particular city
0:13:54 especially if
0:13:54 it’s a real
0:13:55 small city
0:13:55 but you just
0:13:56 kind of extract
0:13:57 the information
0:13:58 from that
0:13:58 and figure
0:13:59 okay a lot
0:13:59 of people
0:14:00 are searching
0:14:01 this particular
0:14:01 term.
0:14:02 Okay are we
0:14:03 talking like
0:14:04 100,000 searches
0:14:04 a month?
0:14:04 What’s good
0:14:05 here?
0:14:05 Well here’s
0:14:06 what you have
0:14:06 to do
0:14:07 you have to
0:14:07 use a combination
0:14:08 of what you
0:14:09 see in SEM
0:14:10 rush which
0:14:11 doesn’t know
0:14:11 everything
0:14:12 and then you
0:14:13 have to use
0:14:13 your brain
0:14:14 at the same
0:14:14 time right?
0:14:15 Usually what
0:14:16 I’m looking
0:14:17 for is at
0:14:18 least a thousand
0:14:19 or so searches
0:14:20 per month
0:14:20 but in that
0:14:22 particular area
0:14:23 that particular
0:14:24 niche whatever
0:14:25 it is building
0:14:26 gravel driveways
0:14:26 building concrete
0:14:27 driveways doing
0:14:28 concrete work
0:14:29 whatever it is
0:14:30 even though it
0:14:31 may not show
0:14:32 up in the
0:14:33 big search
0:14:34 you can kind
0:14:35 of think to
0:14:35 yourself okay
0:14:36 you know you
0:14:36 just do a little
0:14:38 research and think
0:14:39 about what
0:14:39 the population
0:14:41 is there and
0:14:41 you think to
0:14:42 yourself well
0:14:43 wait a sec this
0:14:44 is a city of
0:14:46 150,000 right?
0:14:47 They must be
0:14:48 having some
0:14:49 concrete work
0:14:50 done here they
0:14:51 must be having
0:14:51 some sort of
0:14:52 plumbers are
0:14:54 needed here and
0:14:54 so you kind of
0:14:55 you have to use
0:14:55 kind of a
0:14:56 combination of
0:14:57 common sense and
0:14:58 what you see in
0:14:59 the search results.
0:15:00 Yeah do you
0:15:02 like those industries
0:15:03 where it’s a
0:15:04 $20,000 gravel
0:15:05 driveway versus
0:15:06 like a mobile
0:15:08 car detailing
0:15:08 service where
0:15:09 maybe it’s a
0:15:09 $300 job?
0:15:10 That’s the ones
0:15:11 that everybody
0:15:12 wants because
0:15:13 it’s much easier
0:15:14 to make your
0:15:15 money back and
0:15:15 you get paid
0:15:16 more for the
0:15:17 leads however
0:15:18 if you find
0:15:19 something like
0:15:20 I mean sometimes
0:15:21 painting is a
0:15:22 real good both
0:15:23 interior painting
0:15:24 and exterior
0:15:25 painting sometimes
0:15:26 it’s not the
0:15:26 highest profit
0:15:27 type of jobs but
0:15:28 you can get a
0:15:29 lot of those
0:15:30 leads so you
0:15:30 have to kind of
0:15:31 balance that with
0:15:32 how many leads
0:15:33 per week am I
0:15:34 going to get
0:15:36 with the price
0:15:36 of the job?
0:15:37 to give you a
0:15:37 starting point
0:15:38 for your niche
0:15:39 research I put
0:15:40 together a free
0:15:41 list of 50
0:15:42 potential rank and
0:15:43 rent niches for
0:15:44 you all you have to
0:15:44 do is hit up the
0:15:45 show notes for this
0:15:46 episode enter your
0:15:47 email and I’ll send
0:15:48 it right over I’ve
0:15:49 got more with John
0:15:50 coming up in just a
0:15:51 moment including the
0:15:52 size of his portfolio
0:15:54 so far and how he
0:15:54 gets these sites
0:15:56 ranking and earning
0:15:57 so quickly coming up
0:15:58 right after this
0:16:00 summer is the season
0:16:01 of backyard barbecues
0:16:02 hanging out at the
0:16:03 lake epic family
0:16:04 road trips but when
0:16:05 the temperature rises
0:16:05 you don’t want to
0:16:06 be sweating over
0:16:07 your wireless bill
0:16:08 that’s why I made
0:16:08 the switch to our
0:16:09 partner mint mobile
0:16:11 in 2019 and have
0:16:12 it look back here’s
0:16:13 what’s great about
0:16:14 mint simple affordable
0:16:15 premium wireless
0:16:16 service without
0:16:17 surprises and
0:16:18 unexpected overages
0:16:20 all mint plans come
0:16:20 with high-speed data
0:16:22 and unlimited talk
0:16:22 and text on the
0:16:24 nation’s largest 5g
0:16:25 network the switch
0:16:26 was easy I was
0:16:26 able to bring my
0:16:28 own phone and keep
0:16:29 my old phone number
0:16:29 and all my existing
0:16:31 contacts so join me in
0:16:32 ditching overpriced
0:16:33 wireless and get
0:16:34 three months of
0:16:35 unlimited service for
0:16:37 just 15 bucks a
0:16:38 month this year skip
0:16:39 breaking a sweat and
0:16:40 breaking the bank get
0:16:41 this new customer offer
0:16:42 in your three-month
0:16:44 unlimited wireless plan
0:16:45 for just 15 bucks a
0:16:46 month at mint
0:16:48 mobile.com slash side
0:16:49 hustle that’s mint
0:16:52 mobile.com slash side
0:16:53 hustle upfront payment
0:16:54 of $45 required
0:16:56 equivalent to $15 per
0:16:57 month limited time new
0:16:58 customer offer for
0:16:59 first three months only
0:17:01 speeds may slow above
0:17:02 35 gigabytes on
0:17:04 unlimited plan taxes
0:17:05 and fees extra see
0:17:06 mint mobile for
0:17:07 details here’s a little
0:17:08 bit of side hustle
0:17:10 trivia for you did you
0:17:10 know that our partner
0:17:12 Shopify powers 10% of
0:17:14 all e-commerce in the
0:17:15 U.S. everything from
0:17:16 household names like
0:17:18 Mattel and Gymshark to
0:17:18 dozens of side hustle
0:17:19 show guests you’ve heard
0:17:21 from right on this show
0:17:23 and there’s strength in
0:17:24 those numbers ever
0:17:25 notice that purple shop
0:17:26 pay button when you’re
0:17:27 shopping online that’s a
0:17:28 telltale sign that a
0:17:29 store is powered by
0:17:31 Shopify and just one of
0:17:32 the reasons Shopify has
0:17:33 the best converting
0:17:33 checkout on the
0:17:35 planet Shopify makes it
0:17:36 easy to sell online with
0:17:37 hundreds of beautiful
0:17:38 ready-to-go templates
0:17:40 inventory management
0:17:41 tools payment processing
0:17:43 analytics and powerful
0:17:44 marketing and email
0:17:46 tools built right in so
0:17:47 you can find and keep
0:17:48 more customers if you
0:17:49 want to see less carts
0:17:50 being abandoned it’s
0:17:51 time to head over to
0:17:53 Shopify sign up for
0:17:54 your one dollar per
0:17:55 month trial and start
0:17:56 selling today at
0:17:59 shopify.com slash side
0:18:00 hustle go to
0:18:02 shopify.com slash side
0:18:03 hustle one more time
0:18:05 it’s shopify.com slash
0:18:09 side hustle how many of
0:18:09 these sites have you
0:18:11 built out at this point
0:18:12 yeah we’ve got 10 of
0:18:14 them built out okay in
0:18:16 all all over the place
0:18:17 or you find like one
0:18:19 industry and then lather
0:18:20 rinse repeat across a
0:18:21 bunch of different
0:18:22 cities or do you like
0:18:23 say I’m gonna focus on
0:18:24 this one city and build
0:18:25 relationships with the
0:18:26 business owners there
0:18:28 no they’re all over
0:18:29 the place I have
0:18:31 retaining walls I have
0:18:32 kitchen remodeling
0:18:33 believe it or not we
0:18:34 have a hit on a niche
0:18:35 here that we think is
0:18:37 is doing very well it’s
0:18:39 a sober living niches
0:18:40 right oh like like a
0:18:41 rehab center type of
0:18:43 deal exactly so when
0:18:44 people are getting out of
0:18:46 rehab they need a place
0:18:48 to go live and we’re
0:18:49 able to build website
0:18:51 and you know the the
0:18:52 rent can run anywhere
0:18:53 from I don’t know
0:18:55 eight hundred dollars a
0:18:56 month up to two or
0:18:57 three thousand dollars a
0:18:58 month depending on how
0:19:00 much luxury so to speak
0:19:01 you want this is for the
0:19:02 person not the sober
0:19:04 living place paying you
0:19:05 for the website but for
0:19:06 the the tenant checking
0:19:07 into the sober living
0:19:08 place just wanted to
0:19:09 clarify yes correct that’s
0:19:10 how much the tenant would
0:19:13 pay and so we do seo on
0:19:14 those sites and we’re
0:19:15 able to feed those leads
0:19:16 to sober living
0:19:17 facilities and they’re
0:19:18 very grateful for that
0:19:20 got it got it okay so
0:19:21 we’ve got 10 of these
0:19:22 built out but how
0:19:23 many of them are rented
0:19:24 out or making money at
0:19:26 this point three and
0:19:28 four if I close one
0:19:32 tomorrow so yeah yeah
0:19:33 so it takes a little
0:19:34 while you know to kind
0:19:35 of get going we’ve been
0:19:36 at this five six months
0:19:37 but it’s nice to have
0:19:38 them run it out and
0:19:40 then also you know I
0:19:41 have others in the pipe
0:19:42 that you just never know
0:19:43 when they’re going to
0:19:44 take off right and
0:19:45 that’s why I like to
0:19:47 kind of diversify like
0:19:49 do different niches in
0:19:50 different cities and
0:19:51 then work with
0:19:52 different kind of
0:19:53 business owners all
0:19:54 right well fingers
0:19:55 crossed for you yeah
0:19:57 well the beauty of it
0:19:58 is it cost you next to
0:19:59 nothing to build it’s
0:20:00 like this upfront
0:20:02 research phase and
0:20:03 business development
0:20:03 phase of trying to
0:20:05 find the right tenant
0:20:06 so to speak the right
0:20:07 client for it but then
0:20:08 once it’s up it’s like
0:20:09 relatively hands-off
0:20:10 doesn’t cost a ton of
0:20:10 money to build a
0:20:11 website let’s get into
0:20:13 that process here talk
0:20:14 me through kind of the
0:20:16 domain selection all
0:20:17 the way through building
0:20:18 out the content and
0:20:18 then we’ll get into
0:20:19 the marketing stuff
0:20:20 the domain selection
0:20:22 is usually it depends
0:20:23 right some of these we
0:20:26 cover large areas right
0:20:28 large areas of a state
0:20:31 and so we’ll pick
0:20:31 something that is
0:20:33 coincides with that
0:20:34 large area in that
0:20:36 state but most of the
0:20:38 time you’re selecting a
0:20:39 whatever the city name
0:20:41 is and then whatever the
0:20:43 niche is let’s just say
0:20:47 it’s boston gravel driveways
0:20:49 dot com right so you
0:20:50 want to select something
0:20:51 that’s very specific or
0:20:52 that’s what works for us
0:20:53 at least selecting
0:20:54 something that’s very
0:20:55 specific that way when
0:20:56 people are looking for
0:20:58 that particular term it’ll
0:20:59 come up in the search
0:21:00 engine so that’s the
0:21:02 domain selection can i
0:21:02 pause and say like if
0:21:04 there are fewer service
0:21:05 providers or a more
0:21:07 sparse population is
0:21:08 that when you have to go
0:21:10 a little bit broader
0:21:11 like the example would
0:21:12 be well you could do
0:21:13 seattle gravel driveways
0:21:15 or you do like pnw like
0:21:16 pacific northwest concord
0:21:17 you know something that
0:21:18 would encompass the whole
0:21:20 region versus just like
0:21:21 seattle metro well
0:21:22 there’s upside and
0:21:23 downside of that right if
0:21:24 you have something that
0:21:26 is very very small niche
0:21:27 and you want to hit
0:21:28 seattle whatever the
0:21:30 niches dot com that’ll
0:21:32 work however most of
0:21:34 these niches right if
0:21:34 you’re going into a
0:21:36 suburb for example where
0:21:37 i live in the dallas
0:21:39 area like if you go a
0:21:40 little bit north people
0:21:41 are going to be searching
0:21:43 for gravel driveways in
0:21:45 prosper as opposed to
0:21:47 gravel driveways in
0:21:48 dallas or they’re going
0:21:49 to be searching for
0:21:50 gravel driveways in
0:21:52 salina versus gravel
0:21:54 driveways in dallas and
0:21:56 so that’s where it helps
0:21:57 to be a little bit more
0:21:58 specific now here’s what
0:22:00 you can do right let’s
0:22:00 just say you go to
0:22:02 gravel driveways in
0:22:04 prosper a small suburb
0:22:05 well then you can build
0:22:06 out pages though that
0:22:07 are associated with
0:22:09 that let’s say we
0:22:10 serve these areas but
0:22:11 it’s not like you can
0:22:13 just put service areas
0:22:15 and write down the
0:22:16 name of the city what
0:22:17 you got to do is you
0:22:18 got to be really
0:22:20 intentional about that
0:22:21 page that you’re
0:22:22 building out for let’s
0:22:23 just say dallas if you
0:22:24 say we serve these
0:22:26 areas we got to build
0:22:28 out a page that has
0:22:30 landmarks in dallas and
0:22:31 just got to be real
0:22:31 intentional about what
0:22:33 that page looks like
0:22:34 and then link it back to
0:22:35 the home page and
0:22:36 then you will start to
0:22:37 come up in the rankings
0:22:39 okay sending all sorts
0:22:41 of signals and probably
0:22:41 it makes sense to target
0:22:42 the broader population
0:22:43 area i don’t know that
0:22:44 would be my hunch and
0:22:45 then and then kind of
0:22:46 you know have little
0:22:48 sub pages for the
0:22:49 suburbs or you know
0:22:50 these other surroundings
0:22:51 areas that’s it exactly
0:22:53 all right so let’s go to
0:22:54 this boston gravel
0:22:56 driveways example what we
0:22:57 got this we got this
0:22:57 killer exact match
0:22:59 domain what comes next
0:23:00 so now you’re going to
0:23:01 build out the site and
0:23:02 basically google’s
0:23:03 looking for four things
0:23:04 when they’re ranking
0:23:06 you right number one is
0:23:07 the design of the site
0:23:08 when i say the design of
0:23:09 the site does it load
0:23:10 fast is it technically
0:23:12 sound does it adjust
0:23:13 well on mobile and
0:23:14 desktop and all those
0:23:16 things then the second
0:23:17 thing that you’re going
0:23:17 to look for is the
0:23:19 content and when i say
0:23:20 content what they’re
0:23:21 looking for is something
0:23:23 that stacks up against
0:23:25 the competition it can’t
0:23:27 just be one ai page or
0:23:28 anything like that it’s
0:23:29 got to answer questions
0:23:30 like how much does it
0:23:31 cost how long does it
0:23:33 take what comes next
0:23:34 after this where can i
0:23:35 find just all the who
0:23:37 what where why sort of
0:23:40 questions and the faqs on
0:23:41 that particular site
0:23:44 okay and at this stage do
0:23:47 you have a partner in
0:23:48 mind where you can kind
0:23:49 of almost interview the
0:23:50 founder and ask those
0:23:51 types of questions for
0:23:52 how much does it cost or
0:23:53 how long does it take
0:23:54 because it’s like if i’m
0:23:55 coming in i don’t know
0:23:56 the first thing about
0:23:57 gravel driveways like i
0:23:57 don’t know how to answer
0:24:01 these questions well
0:24:02 sometimes we do sometimes
0:24:03 we don’t but it just
0:24:05 takes research right you
0:24:06 can find out all that
0:24:07 stuff by just getting on
0:24:09 either chat gbt or just
0:24:11 doing a search on google
0:24:12 you can figure out what
0:24:13 all the faqs are and the
0:24:14 other thing that we like
0:24:16 to do is go to a
0:24:17 competitor that’s in that
0:24:19 area and see what’s on
0:24:21 their site and see what
0:24:22 those questions are like
0:24:23 and see how they are
0:24:24 answering those sorts of
0:24:26 questions got it okay so
0:24:28 design content what’s
0:24:30 next citations right you
0:24:31 got to have citations
0:24:33 citations are things like
0:24:35 yelp white pages yellow
0:24:38 pages angie’s list thumbtack
0:24:39 etc right you have to be
0:24:41 listed out and you have to
0:24:41 list out the what they
0:24:43 call the the nap i know
0:24:44 i’ve heard you talk about
0:24:46 that before the name
0:24:47 address and phone number
0:24:49 and all that stuff has to
0:24:51 match exactly with your
0:24:53 google my business profile
0:24:54 and so you want to have
0:24:55 those now i use a service
0:24:58 called babe citations babe
0:25:00 is what it’s called b-a-b-e
0:25:02 yeah b-a-b-e citations
0:25:03 babe and the reason i use
0:25:05 them is because they will
0:25:06 write and this is what’s
0:25:07 important you have to have
0:25:10 a unique description of
0:25:11 each of these citations
0:25:12 you just can’t copy paste
0:25:13 the same thing into every
0:25:15 description because that’ll
0:25:17 hurt your rankings so i
0:25:19 use citations babe gosh i
0:25:20 mean that’s the easy button
0:25:20 it’s like hey the
0:25:21 description is the
0:25:22 description our business is
0:25:23 you know we were founded
0:25:25 in in 1997 by you know
0:25:26 the third generation i
0:25:27 remember luke saying this
0:25:29 he’s like don’t just copy
0:25:30 and paste like it hurts you
0:25:32 in the long run yeah and
0:25:33 it will make you over 200
0:25:35 different citations a lot of
0:25:36 people say okay i can do
0:25:37 citations and then they do
0:25:39 four or five and there’s
0:25:40 nothing wrong with that four
0:25:41 or five is better than
0:25:42 nothing but the more
0:25:44 citations that you have the
0:25:45 better and then the last
0:25:47 part yes is the backlinks
0:25:48 okay there’s so many
0:25:49 different ways to do
0:25:51 backlinks right you can buy
0:25:53 you can do blog comments
0:25:55 i like to do what is
0:25:56 called a and luke taught
0:25:57 me this is a competitive
0:26:00 link acquisition basically
0:26:01 you go out to all the
0:26:03 competitors you see who
0:26:04 they are getting for links
0:26:06 and then backlinks and
0:26:07 then you go out and you
0:26:08 reach out to all those
0:26:10 organizations to get it so
0:26:12 backlinks is a challenging
0:26:14 task everyone deals with it
0:26:15 we all want the good
0:26:16 backlinks but it just takes a
0:26:18 little bit of a side hustle
0:26:19 it takes some elbow
0:26:20 creases what it comes down
0:26:22 to are you able to create
0:26:24 your own google my business
0:26:27 listing for gravel driveways
0:26:29 boston when you’re not in
0:26:30 boston i’ve had heard that
0:26:31 it’s like we’re going to
0:26:32 send you a physical postcard
0:26:33 and you gotta you know do a
0:26:34 video walkthrough of your
0:26:35 facility like it’s become
0:26:37 more and more challenging to
0:26:39 get verified it is
0:26:40 challenging but there are
0:26:42 ways around it just got to
0:26:43 kind of know how to work the
0:26:45 system so to speak sometimes
0:26:47 we’ve gotten denied on the
0:26:48 first try but then we’ll
0:26:50 get accepted and then we’ll
0:26:51 appeal it and get us
0:26:52 accepted on the third try
0:26:54 and sometimes they actually
0:26:55 want video verification and
0:26:57 that’s where you do have to
0:26:58 work with a partner in the
0:27:00 area say hey listen you know
0:27:01 can you go out to the
0:27:02 facility you know they’re
0:27:03 going to want to film you
0:27:04 or you know they’re going
0:27:06 to want you on a video so
0:27:08 they can confirm this is a
0:27:09 real business in the area
0:27:11 okay so the four elements that
0:27:12 google is looking for were
0:27:14 design content citations
0:27:16 and backlinks that’s
0:27:17 correct anything specific on
0:27:19 the backlinks I like this
0:27:20 competitor trying to snipe
0:27:22 competitors links and get
0:27:23 them pointing back to you
0:27:24 anything else that you found
0:27:25 effective on that front
0:27:28 yeah so I have actually so
0:27:30 I’m looking at some of our
0:27:32 spreadsheets right now and
0:27:34 when we’re doing backlinking
0:27:37 it’s not as straightforward as
0:27:38 you would think it is in
0:27:40 other words when you’re
0:27:42 back linking you don’t want
0:27:44 to just go have everything
0:27:46 go to the home page every
0:27:47 time right and you want to
0:27:49 use a sometimes it goes to
0:27:50 the service pages sometimes
0:27:53 it goes to the home page and
0:27:54 you want to spread it out to
0:27:56 make it look as natural as
0:27:57 you possibly can right when
0:27:58 you’re working with these
0:28:00 different companies and so
0:28:01 that’s what you do on the
0:28:02 back and you want to make
0:28:05 sure that the anchors are
0:28:07 varied okay in other words
0:28:09 what I mean by that is you
0:28:10 want to make sure that
0:28:12 sometimes you’re using the
0:28:16 URL to the to your page to
0:28:18 where it’s a naked URL what I
0:28:20 mean by that is there’s no
0:28:22 www dot on the front of it
0:28:24 sometimes you’re using the
0:28:27 https in there and you leave
0:28:29 the s in or you take it out
0:28:30 sometimes you want to just use
0:28:32 a keyword or an anchor word and
0:28:34 so there’s different ways to do
0:28:35 it but that’s really what you
0:28:37 want to do you want to have a
0:28:38 combination of blog comments
0:28:41 forms you want to have a guest
0:28:43 post if you can sometimes work
0:28:45 work with Harrow people do that
0:28:47 I’ve not had a lot of luck with
0:28:48 it okay and then there’s
0:28:50 different ways to work it in
0:28:51 terms of getting trust circles
0:28:52 with people that you know so
0:28:54 that’s a little bit about
0:28:58 backlinks okay and the speaking
0:28:59 to anchor text really quick this
0:29:01 is like the underlined text on
0:29:02 the other website that is
0:29:03 linking back to you and it looks
0:29:04 starts to look real suspicious
0:29:05 if a hundred percent of your
0:29:07 backlinks all say Boston gravel
0:29:09 driveways and it’s like wait a
0:29:10 minute this this looks like you’re
0:29:11 trying to manipulate the the
0:29:12 search rankings and Google says
0:29:14 no no no no not allowed that’s
0:29:16 right yeah so you want to vary it
0:29:17 up okay very good okay so we’ve
0:29:21 got the website built out the you
0:29:22 know starting to climb in the ranks
0:29:25 and now the the calls are coming in
0:29:28 if we don’t have a tenant in place
0:29:29 now we got to go find that
0:29:30 provider what does that
0:29:33 conversation look like because I
0:29:35 have to imagine they get calls
0:29:36 promoting local marketing service
0:29:38 all the time but you’re coming at
0:29:40 it with kind of a unique angle of
0:29:42 we have this asset we have this
0:29:43 digital real estate would you like
0:29:45 to rent it out from us and maybe
0:29:46 that helps cut through the clutter
0:29:47 it was a different pitch
0:29:49 John’s response plus how much he’s
0:29:51 charging companies to rent out
0:29:53 these sites in the unexpected new
0:29:54 side hustle conversations with
0:29:57 prospects led to coming up right
0:30:05 after this hey you’ve reached Nick
0:30:07 at side hustle nation sorry I’m
0:30:08 unable to take your call right now
0:30:10 but if you leave a message if that’s
0:30:11 what your customers are hearing
0:30:12 you’re leaving money on the table
0:30:14 you fought hard for those leads
0:30:15 you need a phone system that keeps
0:30:17 up and helps you stay connected 24
0:30:19 seven that’s why I’m excited to
0:30:21 partner with open phone for this
0:30:22 episode open phone is the number
0:30:24 one business phone system that
0:30:26 streamlines and scales your customer
0:30:27 communications it works through an
0:30:29 app on your phone or computer so no
0:30:31 need for a second phone or a
0:30:32 landline and here’s what’s really
0:30:34 cool with open phone your team can
0:30:36 share one number and collaborate on
0:30:38 customer calls and texts just like a
0:30:40 shared inbox that way any teammate can
0:30:42 pick up right where the last person
0:30:44 left off keeping response times
0:30:46 faster than ever see for yourself
0:30:48 why over 60,000 businesses trust
0:30:50 open phone and right now open phone
0:30:51 is offering side hustle show
0:30:54 listeners 20% off for your first six
0:30:57 months at open phone dot com slash
0:31:01 side hustle that’s o-p-e-n-p-h-o-n-e dot
0:31:04 com slash side hustle and if you have
0:31:06 existing numbers with another service
0:31:08 open phone will port them over at no
0:31:10 extra charge open phone no missed
0:31:13 calls no missed customers yeah and you
0:31:16 know there’s no way to really script if
0:31:19 you will the conversation but what I
0:31:21 will do is I’ll say hey listen I’m you
0:31:23 know my name is John let me be real
0:31:25 upfront with you I’ve got this lead
0:31:28 here right somebody just called me they
0:31:31 want a 700 foot gravel driveway and I’m
0:31:33 looking for a person to work with in the
0:31:36 area first of all have you ever gotten
0:31:39 leads from other companies before and
0:31:41 they’ll say yeah you know I work with a
0:31:43 lead gen site and you know you have to
0:31:45 have a little bit of finesse you know
0:31:46 fortunately I’ve got a background in
0:31:49 sales but it’s just about exploring that
0:31:51 conversation ask them questions you
0:31:53 know you ask things like I talked about
0:31:56 it earlier are you advertising right
0:31:58 now how do you get your leads are you
0:31:59 satisfied with that are you getting
0:32:01 enough work and then you say things
0:32:02 like if I should have given you these
0:32:06 leads could you even handle the influx of
0:32:08 leads that are going to come in I mean
0:32:10 are you prepared to scale or should I go
0:32:12 work with somebody else you know you
0:32:14 just have that conversation you see
0:32:17 where it goes and it really is it’s a
0:32:18 trust and you got to build that
0:32:20 relationship with them what’s a typical
0:32:23 price per month or how do you structure
0:32:26 the the rent so to speak for the
0:32:28 websites yeah so what you’re going to do
0:32:30 is you I mean you basically kind of
0:32:31 figure out how much they’re making per
0:32:33 lead on there right and it’s going to be
0:32:35 different for a gravel driveway than it
0:32:38 is for an interior painting site because
0:32:40 most of the interior paintings they’re not
0:32:42 going to have as much margin and it’s
0:32:44 going to cost less for them to actually
0:32:47 sign up a lead okay so or I mean what
0:32:49 they’re going to make off of it is less
0:32:51 than you would for a gravel driveway so
0:32:52 you have to go in you got to do a little
0:32:55 bit of math kind of figure it out you
0:32:56 have to talk to them you have to ask
0:32:58 me what’s your margin on this how much
0:33:00 you make it and just use your gut on
0:33:01 whether they’re telling you the truth
0:33:03 and you can always go to Google and just
0:33:05 say how much is a gravel driveway usually
0:33:07 worth and what’s the margin that you
0:33:09 know companies make on it how much is an
0:33:11 interior painting job usually costs and
0:33:13 then you kind of go backwards from that
0:33:15 and figure out what is a lead going to be
0:33:18 worth to them you don’t want to gouge
0:33:20 them you want them to have this forever
0:33:22 and I want them to have like a you know a
0:33:25 10 times return on exact on what they’re
0:33:27 earning from paying me so they’ll keep
0:33:30 paying me throughout the years yeah are you
0:33:32 comfortable sharing like oh the first one
0:33:34 was 500 bucks so the first one was a
0:33:36 thousand bucks something like that the
0:33:38 first one believe it or not was actually
0:33:39 three hundred dollars I just wanted to
0:33:41 get something on the books then we went
0:33:43 from 500 and then we went to a thousand
0:33:46 nice that’s great that’s like really
0:33:48 exciting and so far I mean it’s early but
0:33:50 so far no churn in terms of sorry we’re
0:33:52 booked up or sorry it’s not working or you
0:33:53 know whatever now we got to go find
0:33:55 somebody else that’s correct okay very
0:33:58 cool I imagine if it’s working the
0:34:00 customer lifetime value here it’s got to
0:34:02 be really high it’s like as long as we
0:34:03 keep doing the business as long as it
0:34:05 sticks at the top of Google and the
0:34:07 leads keep flowing in yeah absolutely
0:34:08 we’ll keep paying this and it just
0:34:11 becomes part of their marketing budget
0:34:13 where it’s like it’s we have outsourced
0:34:14 our marketing to John right and saying
0:34:17 this is not something we have to worry
0:34:19 about but all of a sudden we have a
0:34:21 local SEO expert in our camp who’s doing
0:34:24 this for us right my job on the back end
0:34:28 is to continue to add some backlinks and
0:34:31 continue to make sure that the content is
0:34:34 fresh maybe add some additional content
0:34:36 just to kind of keep up the website if
0:34:38 you will but after it’s all built out
0:34:41 though it’s a pretty easy upkeep yeah do
0:34:43 you have a rule for like well every month
0:34:45 I need to have a new article or new
0:34:46 website or something like just to keep
0:34:49 it I kind of tend to agree where Google
0:34:51 tends to award recency where it’s like it
0:34:53 just shows a signal hey this is still
0:34:55 active it’s being actively managed they’re
0:34:56 still running the business and so we
0:34:59 want to keep at the top overall we want
0:35:01 to add two to three articles on it per
0:35:02 month just to kind of keep it at the top
0:35:04 of Google’s radar all right are you sick
0:35:06 about writing about gravel driveways at
0:35:07 this point like how much is there to say
0:35:11 about this well okay so I got a little
0:35:13 secret for you here okay so me and my
0:35:15 wife work together right and basically
0:35:18 she is the one that’s doing all of this
0:35:20 work in the background I have a full-time
0:35:23 job that I do in the in the daytime and I
0:35:25 do some of this nighttime and weekend but
0:35:27 yeah we’ve learned about all sorts of
0:35:30 industries that we never thought we would
0:35:34 learn about yeah to what extent are you
0:35:39 relying on AI to rewrite these citation
0:35:42 descriptions to write these blog posts or
0:35:44 these articles like what’s what’s the
0:35:46 role of AI in this business yeah that’s a
0:35:47 good question so that’s come up a lot
0:35:51 lately I would say like even a year ago
0:35:53 before we started this we were writing
0:35:54 some blogs about other things my wife’s
0:35:58 always been creating websites AI was a
0:36:00 like a no-no right and Google’s gonna
0:36:02 check it they’re gonna find out if it’s
0:36:04 AI and all that sort of stuff so what we
0:36:07 do now is you have to use a particular
0:36:09 prompt right it’s it’s not as easy you
0:36:12 just can’t say write a article about
0:36:14 gravel driveways you got to be real
0:36:15 specific about what you want them to
0:36:18 write about and then you take that and
0:36:20 basically you finesse it right you make
0:36:23 sure you you humanize it you take the AI
0:36:27 out of it you add to it you subtract from
0:36:29 it you just got to kind of give it that
0:36:32 once over but we do use AI and as far as
0:36:34 the the citations though like I said I’m
0:36:37 outsourcing all that okay so we’ve got
0:36:39 citations babe we’ve got call rail for
0:36:42 call tracking and phone numbers stuff we’ve
0:36:45 got chat GPT we’ve got semrush or
0:36:47 hrefs you know for your initial keyword
0:36:50 research any other tools in tech that
0:36:52 you swear by in this business the other
0:36:54 tool that I use on a consistent basis
0:36:57 pretty much every day is majestic that’s
0:36:59 for the backlinks and to see what the
0:37:01 trust flow is of the sites you want your
0:37:04 site to rank higher and higher with
0:37:07 backlinking and getting good content on
0:37:09 the site we’re hoping that the trust
0:37:12 flow goes up in majestic okay interest I
0:37:13 haven’t heard majestic in a while so
0:37:15 cool to see that they’re still around
0:37:17 talk to me about the side hustles on
0:37:20 side hustles here the accidental local
0:37:22 SEO work that’s kind of spun out of
0:37:24 these contractor conversations right so
0:37:27 what we were really not expecting this
0:37:31 entire time was to to do any SEO work
0:37:33 right I just wanted to build these out
0:37:35 run them out but in the meantime people
0:37:37 kept coming to us as we were having
0:37:38 these conversations with them and they
0:37:40 were saying hey listen we’re not sure
0:37:42 we want a lead generation site but we
0:37:46 would love for you to do some work on our
0:37:48 website so we started doing some local
0:37:52 SEO and now we have like five or six
0:37:55 paying customers on a monthly basis for
0:37:58 local SEO work what we end up doing is
0:38:00 is writing a lot of good content because
0:38:04 we’ve learned I say we my wife God bless
0:38:06 her she has learned how to do it very
0:38:08 well we work with people on their Google
0:38:10 business profiles some people never even
0:38:13 have a Google profile Google business
0:38:14 profile they don’t know how to get it and
0:38:17 once they have it up we optimize it for
0:38:18 them right we’ll do some posts on it we
0:38:21 teach them how to get reviews we do to
0:38:24 call reputation management is the big word
0:38:26 nowadays but it’s basically just helping
0:38:27 people with their Google business profile
0:38:29 profile I mean the key though is writing
0:38:32 that good content to where Google is going
0:38:35 to rank you and you have some very detailed
0:38:38 content and they’re looking to you for the
0:38:41 answers when people put in a particular
0:38:43 search term if I look like for reputation
0:38:45 management Dallas or something this town
0:38:47 rank SEO show up or how is that how people
0:38:49 are finding you that may be one of the
0:38:50 keywords we’re ranking for I should have my
0:38:54 wife here explain them that’s okay or or is it
0:38:57 like does it stem from those proactive outbound
0:38:59 yeah it stems from all the conversations
0:39:02 yeah it’s all the cold calls right it’s
0:39:04 all the cold calls it’s people that have a
0:39:07 conversation with them and they say and
0:39:09 they say well no we need some SEO work like
0:39:12 one of our first clients on the SEO side are
0:39:16 movers right we actually is my my daughter
0:39:18 moved recently and I hired some movers and
0:39:20 started talking to him about how they were
0:39:22 doing SEO they said well we really aren’t and
0:39:25 I looked at their website and it was really
0:39:28 bad and they liked us and they trusted us
0:39:30 and he said hey would you be able to build
0:39:32 us a website which is sure you know so we
0:39:34 built them a website we got them on a
0:39:37 monthly subscription and now we’re working
0:39:39 for him in fact my wife was just showing me
0:39:41 right before I came down here their website
0:39:45 is like ranking really high for the keywords
0:39:47 now one of those sober houses that I told you
0:39:50 we were writing for we looked at that and
0:39:52 you know it’s it’s magical if you know what
0:39:54 you’re doing and once again I did not create
0:39:56 this method it’s Luke we’re just kind of
0:40:00 following his method if you create the right
0:40:03 content and you get the citations and you get
0:40:06 the right backlinks you can really do some
0:40:09 incredible things yeah we did an episode
0:40:12 recently where we kind of talked about local
0:40:16 SEO as one of the last frontiers where Google
0:40:18 still wants to show you local companies instead
0:40:22 of an AI answer it’s like this is you know still
0:40:24 really viable and still really valuable for
0:40:26 local businesses to get discovered and get
0:40:29 and get business from what are you charging
0:40:31 for the like the moving company for like the
0:40:33 subscription local or recurring retainer
0:40:35 yes so they were one of our first so we
0:40:39 charged $500 a month and we’re getting to
0:40:42 where we can definitely charge a little bit
0:40:44 more and we may begin to charge a little bit
0:40:48 more depending on the demand however we want
0:40:50 people living up for the long term right and
0:40:52 they know they’re talking to somebody you know
0:40:55 in the United States and we’re doing good work
0:40:57 and we’re showing them what we’re doing and we
0:41:00 have quarterly meetings with them and you know
0:41:02 we’re not a large organization but we can
0:41:05 definitely help people rank and so that’s that’s
0:41:08 what’s going on with the the movers do you see
0:41:11 a path where this becomes a full-time thing for
0:41:14 you yeah so we do you know it’s definitely
0:41:16 full-time for my wife I mean it’s what she’s
0:41:19 doing on a day-to-day basis and we just like I
0:41:21 said we really just started trying here if you
0:41:25 will like back in February and we can already
0:41:28 see it picking up and so the long story short is
0:41:30 yeah I do see where this could be full-time
0:41:34 okay all right it’s really interesting and this
0:41:35 has come up over and over again where
0:41:38 opportunities become visible once you’re in
0:41:40 motion it’s like you’re sure long-term goal we’d
0:41:42 love to have this passive portfolio of rental
0:41:46 sites just right you know raking in the cash but
0:41:48 in the meantime if people want to hire us for
0:41:51 this more active agency type of consulting freelance
0:41:53 type of work hey I’m not gonna turn it down
0:41:56 because it’s like we almost got paid to build
0:41:58 these skills that’s it exactly like I told my
0:42:00 wife when we started this there’s very little
0:42:03 downside in terms of capital I mean you know if
0:42:05 you’re starting a brick-and-mortar building and
0:42:07 you got to hire employees and do all that
0:42:10 stuff you know you’re really rolling the dice
0:42:12 and it may work out it may not work out and
0:42:15 really all we did was take some training you
0:42:17 know figure out these skills yeah we’re
0:42:19 already in the black you know we’re we’re
0:42:21 made more money than what we spent to start
0:42:24 this with and so now it’s all kind of profit
0:42:26 from here we just got to figure out how to be
0:42:29 more efficient about things and serve our
0:42:31 customers better and it’s one where you can
0:42:35 keep stacking on sites the incremental time to
0:42:39 manage each one is is relatively low I think
0:42:40 that’s pretty exciting that’s it exactly
0:42:42 anything you would do differently I mean it’s
0:42:44 only been you know since February but anything
0:42:46 you would do differently starting over when I
0:42:49 first started here the biggest challenge and
0:42:54 what was both my wife and I felt overwhelmed
0:42:57 with what had to be done to get up to speed
0:43:01 right we could see it in the distance but we
0:43:05 got sometimes caught up in the weeds yeah if I
0:43:07 were to kind of go back and teach myself at
0:43:09 that time is like hey just take this one day
0:43:12 at a time do the next right thing learn this
0:43:16 piece by piece by piece and the results will
0:43:19 take care of themselves yeah I’m I’m with you
0:43:20 there was like break you down into this the
0:43:24 next logical step and it’s it can be really
0:43:25 hard because you’re like I know there’s a hundred
0:43:28 steps and I only right now I’m only knowing
0:43:29 with reasonable degree of confidence the first
0:43:32 three was helping my friends they were like
0:43:36 adding a garage to their house and I’m up
0:43:37 there helping them and we’re at the stage of
0:43:42 like there are tools strewn about their entire
0:43:45 property I’m like tying rebar there’s like half
0:43:48 of a stem wall built and the path to turn this
0:43:51 into a completed garage is so far in the distance
0:43:54 that I’m like stressed out for them but to their
0:43:56 credit they’re just like okay the next thing
0:43:58 we’re gonna do is frame this little section and
0:44:00 like okay we’re gonna keep chipping away at it
0:44:02 one step at a time it’s like that’s something that
0:44:05 always stood out to me yeah it’s true you’ve got
0:44:07 town rank SEO you’ve got this portfolio of
0:44:10 different local sites that are building and
0:44:12 slowly ranking and a handful of them are already
0:44:14 monetized what’s next for you where do you
0:44:17 want to go with this thing I want to have 10 to
0:44:21 20 of these sites rent it out keep it on autopilot if
0:44:24 you will and then be able to invest in other things
0:44:29 like real estate and possibly other businesses and so
0:44:31 that’s really where I would like to take this
0:44:34 eventually and I want to have something to pass on to
0:44:37 my kids at some point right just to be able to say hey
0:44:40 look if you build this from the ground up and take care of
0:44:43 it this is an asset and you can do the same thing yeah
0:44:46 absolutely it can become an asset once you get the
0:44:48 the cash flowing in and kind of the systems in place
0:44:51 absolutely yes sir well john this has been awesome
0:44:54 again townrankseo.com you can find them over there
0:44:57 let’s wrap this up with your number one tip for side
0:45:00 hustle nation be consistent and don’t be afraid to fail
0:45:04 right like what I did in the beginning is I wasn’t
0:45:08 consistent enough and I just had to not be afraid to
0:45:11 fail and you just had to be consistently putting in the
0:45:13 work and the other thing is that I would say if
0:45:16 you’re trying to rank locally you want to write
0:45:21 unique and engaging content to help google find you
0:45:25 very good that consistency comes up over and over again and
0:45:29 there’s something to that I’d find I am very like streak
0:45:34 motivated where if you know I do my like meditation or
0:45:36 journaling habit and this is like the whole james clear
0:45:38 thing you’re okay to skip once don’t skip twice that’s your
0:45:42 new habit now but like I’m very motivated by streaks and
0:45:44 you mentioned like the sobriety thing it’s like look it was
0:45:47 dry january then it was dry february right like if you keep
0:45:49 that streak going it becomes kind of motivating or like I’m
0:45:52 trying to do a bunch of pull-ups every day it’s like okay did I
0:45:54 do my 42 pull-ups today it’s like it’s motivating to keep that
0:45:58 streak going and even if it’s something really small but you know
0:46:00 Jerry Seinfeld talks about don’t break the chain you know do
0:46:04 that little thing every single day and really really can pay
0:46:08 start to compound in in a side hustle like this so the biggest
0:46:13 kind of note that I took was having these honest conversations with
0:46:16 business owners and saying how are you getting leads today you know do
0:46:20 you have the capacity to handle more what’s struggle with your business
0:46:22 right now it’s like here’s here’s the skill set that we can bring to the
0:46:25 table how do we make this a win for you right and just having those open
0:46:30 honest conversations and trying to build that trust to be there outsourced local
0:46:34 marketing department in a way so again really cool stuff townrankseo.com
0:46:41 we did mention Luke Vanderveer that was episode 448 and website rentalcoaching.com
0:46:46 slash shn was the referral link that he gave me I also put together a free
0:46:51 listener bonus for you it’s 50 rank and rent niches to kickstart your research we
0:46:56 talked about painting and gravel driveways and all sorts of other potential ones so
0:46:59 we got a whole list for you there you can find that in the show notes for this
0:47:03 episode just follow the link good I may have to download that myself there you
0:47:07 go get some more going head on over there that’ll be a free download for
0:47:11 anybody listening and the other episode that we mentioned was
0:47:16 meowrios that was 597 so if you like this business model get a couple other
0:47:19 perspectives and and go tune into those in your
0:47:22 archives big thanks to John for sharing his
0:47:26 insight thanks to our sponsors for helping make this content free for everyone
0:47:30 side hustle nation dot com slash deals is where to go to take advantage of all the
0:47:33 offers that our sponsors have put together for you thank you for supporting
0:47:38 the advertisers that support the show that is it for me thank you so much for
0:47:41 tuning in if you’re finding value in the show the greatest compliment is to share
0:47:46 it with a friend so fire off that text message fire off that Instagram DM hey I
0:47:49 think you got to check this out I think it’ll be right up your alley until next
0:47:52 time let’s go out there and make something happen and I’ll catch you in the
0:47:55 next edition of The Side Hustle Show. Hustle on.