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0:00:38 Will the VP debate move the needle
0:00:40 in what’s shaping up to be a neck and neck election?
0:00:42 You never know in advance what will be the thing
0:00:44 that matters and the thing that doesn’t matter,
0:00:48 but Donald Trump will be almost 80,
0:00:52 and J.D. Vance will be one cheeseburger away
0:00:54 from the presidency should they win.
0:00:57 I’m Preet Bharara, and this week,
0:00:58 the Atlantic magazine’s David Frum
0:01:01 joins me on my podcast, Stay Tuned with Preet,
0:01:04 to break down what happened at the debate.
0:01:05 The episode is out now.
0:01:07 Search and follow Stay Tuned with Preet
0:01:09 wherever you get your podcasts.
0:01:14 – Hi everyone, I’m Brene Brown,
0:01:16 and I’d love to tell you about a new series
0:01:18 that’s launching on Unlocking Us.
0:01:21 I’m calling it the On My Heart and Mind podcast series.
0:01:23 It’s gonna include conversations
0:01:24 with some of my favorite writers
0:01:26 on topics ranging from revolutionary love
0:01:30 and gun ownership to menopause and finding joy and grief.
0:01:31 The first episode is available now,
0:01:33 and I can’t wait for you to hear it.
0:01:35 All new episodes will drop on Wednesdays,
0:01:36 and you can get them as soon as they’re out
0:01:38 by following Unlocking Us on Apple
0:01:40 or wherever you listen to your podcasts.
0:01:45 – Welcome to Raging Moderates, I’m Scott Galloway.
0:01:47 – And I’m Jessica Tarlove.
0:01:48 – Jessica, how was your weekend?
0:01:50 – It was glorious.
0:01:52 Weather was amazing in New York.
0:01:53 – Really? – So, you know how,
0:01:55 like in London, like the city comes alive,
0:01:57 especially when you’re not supposed to get good weather
0:02:00 at this point, it was like 70 and sunny.
0:02:03 And how was your, you’re not home?
0:02:05 – No, I’m in– – Clearly looks like.
0:02:08 – Yeah, I’m in Los Angeles at my favorite hotel,
0:02:09 the Bear Leaves Hotel.
0:02:11 I just took off my pink robe for you.
0:02:13 – Oh. – And, yeah,
0:02:15 I had a really nice, I have a nice weekend.
0:02:18 I went to two of my closest friends,
0:02:21 my roommates, my sophomore year in the room of the ’80s,
0:02:23 which we branded one of the rooms,
0:02:25 and our fraternity had their 60th
0:02:29 and like tons of kids and grown kids.
0:02:31 It was really, really nice.
0:02:33 And then I went and saw my dad,
0:02:34 which is my dad’s at that point where that’s,
0:02:37 that’s kind of rough, but I did that.
0:02:42 And now I’m back and I’m gonna do this at Oh Dark 100 Hours.
0:02:43 And then at one o’clock, I’m gonna go down
0:02:46 and I’m gonna order a club sandwich,
0:02:48 put on big, big dark sunglasses,
0:02:50 put an unlit cigarette in my mouth,
0:02:51 and every woman that walks by me,
0:02:53 I’m gonna scream, “Jackie, marry me.
0:02:54 “I make you very happy woman.”
0:02:59 That’s a jacket, that’s a Aristotle Onassis reference.
0:03:01 Jessica, it’s one of my go-to lines.
0:03:03 – Oh, I hadn’t heard it before,
0:03:05 so the spark is still alive here.
0:03:06 – Very much. – Since we’re new
0:03:07 to each other, yeah.
0:03:09 – Very much, and it’s kind of sad they recognize me.
0:03:12 I’m turning into a much less wealthy version
0:03:13 of Howard Hughes here.
0:03:15 They’re like, “Hello, Mr. Galloway, and how are you?”
0:03:18 And they talk to me like I’m a very old man.
0:03:23 Anyways, today we are talking about the final stretch
0:03:25 of the campaign, Liz Cheney campaigns for Harris
0:03:27 and Elon Musk rallies for Trump.
0:03:32 Melania’s book tour, that’s a snoozer.
0:03:34 And finally, we reflect on the year it’s been
0:03:37 since the October 7th Hamas attack.
0:03:39 All right, we’re less than a month out from election day,
0:03:41 and the October surprises are rolling in.
0:03:44 Last week, special counsel, Jack Smith,
0:03:47 dropped a 165-page filing detailing Trump’s
0:03:51 alleged desperate efforts to overturn the 2020 election.
0:03:54 According to the document, Trump told a family member
0:03:57 just days before January 6th that it doesn’t matter
0:04:01 if you win or lost, you still have to fight like hell.
0:04:03 The filing also claims Trump knew his core claims
0:04:05 wouldn’t hold up, but pressed on anyways.
0:04:07 Jess, what do you make of this?
0:04:09 Could this really, could this have an impact,
0:04:13 or is it just, I don’t know, is it a lot of jazz hands here?
0:04:16 – Well, I think that there’s something more important
0:04:19 afoot than whether it has an impact or not.
0:04:22 And that’s that there’s 165 pages
0:04:25 of available information now about how Donald Trump
0:04:27 as a private citizen, so that’s what Jack Smith
0:04:32 had to do with this post-Supreme Court immunity decision.
0:04:35 He had to show that this was a criminal plot
0:04:39 to overturn the election by a private citizen
0:04:42 acting as such, using private lawyers,
0:04:45 using private money, et cetera.
0:04:50 And that’s meaningful for the American public,
0:04:53 even if it just goes in a time capsule for all of this
0:04:57 to really understand the breadth and depth
0:05:01 of the effort to overturn the election.
0:05:04 We’re all political animals, some of us more than others.
0:05:07 So yes, could it have an electoral effect?
0:05:10 I think that that is linked to, you know,
0:05:12 when we start talking about Liz Cheney being out there
0:05:14 and campaigning in the Adam Kinzinger’s of the world.
0:05:18 And this undecided voter or potential swing voter
0:05:22 where protecting democracy is their number one priority.
0:05:25 You know, these primarily women, suburban women
0:05:27 that are being interviewed saying, you know,
0:05:30 I don’t agree with Kamala Harris’s policy positions,
0:05:35 but I want to be on the side of protecting the constitution.
0:05:36 So I think it matters in that sense.
0:05:39 But this is, it feels so much larger than what happens
0:05:41 on November 5th to me.
0:05:44 And when you look at this filing
0:05:47 and some of my colleagues said, you know,
0:05:48 well, we already knew all of this.
0:05:52 And then I started rattling off all of this new information
0:05:53 that was in this filing.
0:05:55 And they said, oh, well, it’s connected
0:05:57 to the spirit of what I knew.
0:05:59 Well, that’s really different, right?
0:06:01 People don’t remember the spirit of things.
0:06:03 They remember the anecdotes,
0:06:07 like the Michigan GOP official who Rhonda McDaniel called
0:06:10 for Trump to try to get him to do the fake election scheme.
0:06:13 And he said, that’s fucking nuts.
0:06:15 People are gonna remember that.
0:06:17 Or that Donald Trump said about, you know,
0:06:19 that they wanted to hang Mike Pence.
0:06:22 That he said, so what?
0:06:25 And I feel like that is going to stick
0:06:29 in the national consciousness for a lot longer
0:06:31 than the outcome of this election.
0:06:33 What’d you make of it?
0:06:35 – I’m of two minds on it because I agree with you
0:06:39 that reminding, just saying, just FYI folks,
0:06:43 just remember as you head into the voting booth,
0:06:45 this is the guy who tried to obstruct
0:06:47 the peaceful transfer of power,
0:06:48 which is kind of job one.
0:06:50 If you’re trying to hold up our democracy,
0:06:52 every other president, even when it’s been close
0:06:56 with Gore or Clinton, they did concede
0:06:58 and they showed up at the inaugurations
0:06:59 and they facilitated.
0:07:01 This was like, there were certain things we thought
0:07:05 were just always gonna happen that we took for granted.
0:07:08 And he still has yet to concede the election.
0:07:11 And I think that it’s important to remind people
0:07:14 that remember this, this should not be normalized.
0:07:17 This was outrageous, unprecedented behavior.
0:07:19 And some of the stuff is really shocking.
0:07:22 At the same time, I was pissed off.
0:07:27 I mean, physically angry at Comey when he decided,
0:07:31 hey, look at me a few weeks before the election
0:07:32 and said that he was, you know,
0:07:35 going after Hillary’s emails or indicting her.
0:07:38 To me, that just said, I need to be in the news
0:07:40 and I have some weird perverted version
0:07:41 of what it means to be a leader
0:07:45 and it means doing stuff without any care for the political.
0:07:47 I mean, there’s just no way around it.
0:07:50 If you do something right now, it’s political.
0:07:54 The political calculation has to come into the calculation.
0:07:57 So I think the criticism from Republicans
0:07:59 that this seems very politically motivated
0:08:00 given the timing, I think that’s fair,
0:08:03 which also leads to another level of anger.
0:08:05 There’s a lot of floors on the elevator stop
0:08:06 of the anger for Scott.
0:08:09 – Is that an LA feature or you always have them in the floor?
0:08:10 – No, that follows me everywhere.
0:08:13 That’s carry-on luggage that’s somewhere in my brain
0:08:15 that comes with me everywhere.
0:08:16 I think I inherited that from my father.
0:08:19 Anyways, I have a tough one with this.
0:08:21 I think that, you know, people say it was different
0:08:23 with Comey, there was nothing there,
0:08:25 there’s a there there here.
0:08:26 The other thing I’m fucking angry about, Jess,
0:08:29 is how on earth did they wait three years
0:08:31 to do all this shit?
0:08:33 He was able to delay all the cases.
0:08:36 He was able to claim political, you know,
0:08:40 prosecution that no one else has been subject to
0:08:42 because, you know, our guys, if you will,
0:08:45 if you think of the people that are trying to highlight
0:08:47 some of Trump’s shortcomings,
0:08:49 they didn’t bring these cases to three years.
0:08:52 It strikes me as just incredibly democratic
0:08:54 in the sense that the Democrats have a habit
0:08:57 of being right and ineffective.
0:08:58 What do you think about the timing of all of this?
0:08:59 And do you think that Trump,
0:09:01 do you think Trump’s people are just gonna say
0:09:03 another example of how they are trying
0:09:04 to steal the election again?
0:09:09 – Well, definitely, ’cause they only have one thing to say,
0:09:12 and it’s, this is lawfare, and I’m a victim.
0:09:15 And that works for a lot of people.
0:09:17 But I do think that this is different.
0:09:21 So I wanna be in like 50% agreement with you
0:09:23 about Merrick Garland,
0:09:26 and that this should have been all gas, no breaks.
0:09:30 The second that Joe Biden was in the White House,
0:09:34 everyone was confirmed, this process should have begun.
0:09:37 And it started a couple of years too late.
0:09:39 So, and, you know, it has taken a while
0:09:41 and there are a lot of cases involved.
0:09:43 And it looks like the Clarice Cud case,
0:09:46 the Mar-a-Lago case, who knows when that moves forward
0:09:49 because, you know, Trump got his bestie
0:09:53 when they drew straws on that one in Eileen Cannon
0:09:54 down in Florida.
0:09:59 But I see this as amazingly distinct
0:10:02 from what happened with Jim Comey
0:10:05 and coming out 11 days before the election
0:10:08 with nothing to say,
0:10:12 besides we considered something and decided against it.
0:10:15 And Jim Comey has revealed himself,
0:10:19 and I think a lot of these now-never Trump Republicans
0:10:21 suffer from the self-absorption
0:10:24 that goes so beyond what they purport to be about, right?
0:10:28 They say, “I value country over party,
0:10:30 but really I just want to hear myself talk
0:10:32 or I’ve got a bunch of books coming.”
0:10:35 And Liz Cheney doesn’t do it like that.
0:10:39 She actually seems like the one who is completely dedicated
0:10:41 to making sure that we preserve our democracy.
0:10:45 And who knows if Kamala wins in 2024,
0:10:47 I don’t know where Liz Cheney will be in 2028
0:10:50 if there’s a normie Republican on the other side.
0:10:52 She’ll probably go back to her roots
0:10:54 because she actually believes in things
0:10:56 that the Republican party used to be about,
0:10:59 like small government and fiscal responsibility,
0:11:02 which is not a feature of the Trump agenda.
0:11:06 So Jim Comey did that for himself
0:11:07 and he had nothing to say,
0:11:11 but to just publicly crap on Hillary,
0:11:14 who was already running a deeply flawed campaign,
0:11:18 which we all know and have accepted at this point.
0:11:22 What’s different about the Jack Smith filing is, A,
0:11:24 it’s the continuation of something
0:11:27 that has been in the ether for over a year.
0:11:30 So it doesn’t violate the 60 day rule.
0:11:31 Not these are formal rules,
0:11:34 but the kind of code of conduct.
0:11:39 And Jack Smith has taken the hit from the Supreme Court,
0:11:41 waited out through this.
0:11:42 They slow rolled out that the Supreme Court
0:11:44 did everything that they could to make sure
0:11:46 that Trump would not have to deal with this
0:11:47 before the election.
0:11:50 Jack Smith, abided by all of that,
0:11:53 had to judge Chutkin to make sure
0:11:55 that she was still going on schedule,
0:11:56 no matter what,
0:11:59 that she wasn’t going to fall by the wayside
0:12:01 for some stupid reason.
0:12:02 Because the truth is,
0:12:04 this obviously isn’t going to trial in advance of this,
0:12:06 but there’s no reason that the wheels of justice
0:12:08 should stop turning
0:12:11 because people are going to vote on November 5th
0:12:14 for a case that was already open.
0:12:17 That has now been through two grand juries to boot.
0:12:22 So I think that people who are actually receptive
0:12:26 to hearing the facts about Donald Trump
0:12:27 and his legal cases,
0:12:29 and there is a whole subsection of people
0:12:30 who are not receptive to it.
0:12:32 So this doesn’t even matter.
0:12:36 But those who still have that little light on
0:12:37 where they can hear things,
0:12:41 deserve to know who it is
0:12:44 that is standing for election on November 5th,
0:12:47 the totality of that person.
0:12:51 And I don’t think that that counts as election interference.
0:12:53 I think that that counts again,
0:12:55 as justice doing its thing
0:12:58 and giving people the fullest picture
0:13:01 of an incredibly important decision.
0:13:04 And I don’t know if that satisfies your anger about it,
0:13:07 but I’ve given it a lot of thought
0:13:11 and tried to be as non-partisan as I can.
0:13:14 And I also, to your point about Democrats being losers
0:13:17 or ineffective, as you put it more nicely,
0:13:21 like this is actually us not being those kinds of losers.
0:13:25 This is not letting Merrick Garland get a hearing
0:13:27 before the election, like Mitch McConnell did,
0:13:31 just saying, no, we’re not gonna stand by
0:13:33 and not talk about this because of a norm
0:13:35 that you first of all invented
0:13:36 and is not being violated
0:13:39 because this was already an indictment that was out there.
0:13:40 – I think that’s well said.
0:13:43 The Harris campaign has already released an ad
0:13:44 using the story to their advantage.
0:13:45 Let’s have a listen.
0:13:47 – We fight like hell.
0:13:49 And if you don’t fight like hell,
0:13:51 you’re not gonna have a country anymore.
0:13:52 – New evidence about Donald Trump’s efforts
0:13:54 to overturn the 2020 election.
0:13:58 – This is bombshell after bombshell after bombshell.
0:14:01 – Trump was pressuring Pence to take action.
0:14:03 – Merrick Pence has betrayed
0:14:06 the United States of America.
0:14:08 – Trump looked at him and said only, so what?
0:14:13 Wow, that’s pretty dark, what do you think?
0:14:16 – I mean, it’s like a movie trailer, right?
0:14:17 Like when we used to go to movies
0:14:20 and you’d be like, oh, I wanna see that.
0:14:24 Which is the best that you could do for a filing, right?
0:14:27 To make something as exciting as that sounds.
0:14:29 I think that’s exactly the right thing.
0:14:30 And I mean, two things that play with this.
0:14:33 One, the Harris campaign has so much money
0:14:37 that they can make an ad about toilet paper if they want.
0:14:39 And it’s not gonna put a dent in the bank.
0:14:41 So why wouldn’t you cut ads on this?
0:14:45 And then add to that, the ad that they did
0:14:48 right after the debate when Walls asked J.D. Vance
0:14:51 if Donald Trump lost the 2020 election,
0:14:52 and he couldn’t answer.
0:14:55 So all of this is part of that bubble,
0:14:58 and I think it’s totally worth the dollars.
0:14:59 And I wanna put something to you
0:15:01 that I have been workshopping,
0:15:04 and this is my first public go of it.
0:15:08 The Trump campaign is not seemingly
0:15:11 making a real effort to win the election
0:15:13 when it comes to the mechanics of it,
0:15:16 like the get out the vote operation.
0:15:18 And people have been publicly decrying this.
0:15:20 Ronald McDaniels talked about it.
0:15:22 Other Republican officials,
0:15:23 Republicans have said in swing districts,
0:15:25 no one has canvassed.
0:15:27 I haven’t seen anyone knock on my doors.
0:15:29 They have Charlie Kirk in charge of it,
0:15:32 who’s a grifter of the highest order.
0:15:37 And marrying that up with what we know from this filing,
0:15:41 part of me feels like they don’t even really intend
0:15:44 to win in the genuine way.
0:15:47 That he’s going to say again, I won,
0:15:49 knowing full well that the recounts are gonna have to happen,
0:15:52 George is gonna have to hand count, et cetera.
0:15:54 And that was just kind of like this red flag
0:15:56 that went off to me this weekend
0:15:58 after looking at the Jack Smith filing,
0:16:01 and thinking, are these people actually playing to win,
0:16:03 or they’re playing to say they won?
0:16:07 – Wow, ’cause I actually think he is very,
0:16:09 well, he personally, there’s him,
0:16:11 there’s the campaign and how they’re going about it.
0:16:14 I would imagine that he desperately wants to win,
0:16:17 ’cause in my view, there’s a very decent chance
0:16:18 that one of these courts,
0:16:20 I mean, he has, I think, four juries
0:16:22 at some point coming for him.
0:16:23 And those, I looked at those jurisdictions
0:16:26 they have between, depending on the jurisdiction,
0:16:30 between a 70 and 90% conviction rate.
0:16:31 And the majority of the crimes,
0:16:32 except for the one in New York,
0:16:35 probably typically the sentencing guidelines
0:16:38 would probably offer up some sort of jail term.
0:16:39 Now, a guy that age, the president,
0:16:41 they might say, just stay out of politics,
0:16:42 we’re gonna put an ankle in on you,
0:16:45 hang out at your golf course,
0:16:47 have Melania and porn star swing by,
0:16:49 he still could, he still will probably,
0:16:50 could probably figure out a way
0:16:52 to come to some sort of accommodation M and I’s life,
0:16:53 but that’s not gonna be pleasant.
0:16:58 And if a 78-year-old man, obese man is sentenced to prison,
0:17:01 any time at all, is probably a death sentence.
0:17:02 He’s not gonna come out,
0:17:04 he may never leave, he may leave feet first.
0:17:05 And when he comes out,
0:17:08 I think he’d be a dramatically changed person.
0:17:10 So I would think he’s exceptionally,
0:17:13 genuinely all in on winning.
0:17:14 I wonder if the campaign,
0:17:16 what you’re describing to me,
0:17:18 quite frankly, is a little bit of incompetence.
0:17:19 They don’t have the ground game
0:17:21 that previous campaigns have had.
0:17:22 The other question, or the question I would have for you
0:17:24 is I think you brought up something that’s kind of interesting
0:17:25 and that is money.
0:17:28 Vice President Harris has raised so much money.
0:17:30 Where does that come in?
0:17:32 Is it just ads, or is it a get out?
0:17:33 Is it get out the vote?
0:17:35 Is it turnout?
0:17:36 Other than just more ads,
0:17:38 I would have thought that basically every news station
0:17:41 that has people who are 95 watching it
0:17:43 has already sold out all their ads.
0:17:44 Where else does the money help?
0:17:46 – Yeah, it’s definitely the ground game.
0:17:50 And she is supporting down ballot races
0:17:52 at unprecedented levels,
0:17:55 transferring things like $25 million to the DNC
0:17:58 to make sure that we can retake the house.
0:17:59 Everyone is even sharing.
0:18:01 You have Gavin Newsom writing to you.
0:18:05 Like, can you chip in for Bob Casey?
0:18:08 So it’s going to all sorts of down ballot races.
0:18:09 Get out the vote.
0:18:13 Legal teams that are going to have to deal with recounts,
0:18:17 making sure everything is free and fair in the aftermath,
0:18:19 you know, paying people.
0:18:21 And they have a huge apparatus.
0:18:25 I mean, this is massive what they have going.
0:18:28 And I think you’re probably right
0:18:31 that it is more incompetence than anything.
0:18:34 But they do have smart people like a Suzy Wiles,
0:18:39 who’s one of his, I guess, co-chair of the campaign,
0:18:40 who knows how to win elections.
0:18:42 – It’s supposed to be very smart.
0:18:43 – Very smart.
0:18:46 And she’s not screaming about this.
0:18:50 But I think in a deadlocked election
0:18:53 where no one reasonable is saying
0:18:55 it’s going to be a landslide in either direction,
0:18:58 odds are we’re going to go back down to the margins
0:19:01 that we had in 2020 or less.
0:19:06 Why wouldn’t you be preparing at the highest levels for that?
0:19:11 Which we know includes canvassing, door knocking,
0:19:14 texting, calling, all the things.
0:19:16 – We’ll be right back.
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0:21:40 Vice President Harris also made
0:21:42 some major media appearances this week,
0:21:44 including Caller Daddy, 60 Minutes to View,
0:21:47 Howard Stern, Stephen Colbert.
0:21:49 She’s clearly kind of got the message about getting out.
0:21:52 These aren’t exactly hard charging interviews.
0:21:54 60 Minutes asked some pretty good questions.
0:21:56 I thought she handled it pretty well.
0:21:59 What did you make of this media tour?
0:22:00 – Well, it’s not done yet.
0:22:04 So I’m interested in seeing all of it.
0:22:06 It’s weird, being a liberal that works
0:22:10 in conservative media, I’m wired a little bit differently.
0:22:14 So I want things or have an expectation for Democrats
0:22:15 that I think is a little bit unfair
0:22:17 because I work with people
0:22:20 who are like Fox interviewer bust.
0:22:23 And we should say Tim Walls went on Fox News Sunday
0:22:25 with Shannon Bream on Sunday and he did a pretty good job.
0:22:26 I thought Shannon did a great job too.
0:22:29 It was one of those where everybody got something,
0:22:33 which I feel like is the best case scenario for an interview.
0:22:38 But I feel like what the Harris campaign is doing
0:22:43 is rewriting how presidential campaigns are fought
0:22:45 and hopefully won with the media.
0:22:47 And they’re trying to set a precedent
0:22:48 for the future of this.
0:22:50 And I think that they’re doing it, A,
0:22:52 because this is the way that media is shifting
0:22:55 and B, because they have a candidate
0:22:58 that can’t do as well in the normal formats
0:23:01 that presidential candidates usually do.
0:23:04 I think that if she was like Biden was in 2020
0:23:07 or certainly in Obama or a Hillary
0:23:11 and snappy and concise and very sure of herself
0:23:15 in interviews, they’d be doing all the normal stuff,
0:23:18 plus as many of these podcasts as possible.
0:23:21 But they are making lemonade with the lemons
0:23:23 that they have and lemon is too harsh,
0:23:26 but you know, that’s how the phrase works
0:23:27 and doing something different.
0:23:30 And I listened to the Caller Daddy interview
0:23:31 with great interest.
0:23:34 I thought that the host, Alex Cooper, did a fantastic job.
0:23:38 And if you haven’t listened to it yet, at the beginning,
0:23:40 she gives a very thoughtful introduction
0:23:43 where she talks about how she has never wanted politics
0:23:45 to be part of Caller Daddy,
0:23:48 that the daddy gang is not interested in it.
0:23:52 She has five million downloads for each episode.
0:23:55 She’s the number one podcast for women 18 to 34,
0:23:58 the number two podcast in the world behind Joe Rogan.
0:24:01 So this is a massive audience that she doesn’t wanna tick off.
0:24:04 And she had actually turned down the presidential candidates
0:24:07 when it was Biden and Harris wanted to come on
0:24:09 in January, I think she said no.
0:24:12 And then as we got closer to the election,
0:24:14 and she realized also how many of the issues
0:24:16 that they talk about a lot, like mental health,
0:24:18 like women’s reproductive rights,
0:24:23 like sex and dating, abuse were themes of the election
0:24:27 that she should open her proverbial doors to the candidates.
0:24:29 And she also invited Donald Trump to join her
0:24:34 and he has not replied at this point.
0:24:37 Scott, what do you think about this new media tour?
0:24:39 – Well, it bodes well for Jessica Tarluff
0:24:42 and Scott Galloway and that podcasting is-
0:24:44 – You think we’re gonna be the next stop for Kamala?
0:24:45 – It won’t be this time
0:24:48 ’cause we didn’t get our shit together until like October
0:24:49 and launch this thing.
0:24:54 But I think we’re gonna be huge in the midterm, Jess.
0:24:56 Look, it really speaks to the medium.
0:25:00 And that is when you go on, when you look at 60 minutes,
0:25:01 you know, it’s highly produced.
0:25:03 You don’t really get a sense for them.
0:25:06 And podcasts, there’s just more nuance.
0:25:08 And they run longer
0:25:11 and it feels like you’re actually in the room
0:25:12 with them a bit.
0:25:14 And I think people really like the medium
0:25:16 for a long form interview.
0:25:18 Also, the medium has had a chance to kind of settle
0:25:22 and mature and you have a podcast like “Colored Daddy”
0:25:24 which just wouldn’t work in any other medium
0:25:27 where it begins from a place of kind of feminism
0:25:29 and female strength talking about issues
0:25:31 that women weren’t supposed to talk about
0:25:34 and has aggregated an enormous audience.
0:25:36 I mean, Alex Cooper, I think she just signed
0:25:38 a hundred or 125 million dollar contract
0:25:40 and she deserves every dollar.
0:25:42 And at the end of the day, what it really says
0:25:44 is this medium podcasting.
0:25:47 It’s growing faster than any other medium.
0:25:49 I think Joe Rogan reaches more people
0:25:52 than literally any TV show exponentially.
0:25:56 And the other thing about podcasting, I’ve noticed,
0:25:58 it really moves book sales.
0:26:02 So if we have an author come on ProveG or Markets,
0:26:03 it tangibly moves book sales.
0:26:05 And I would imagine people who buy books
0:26:08 also over index in terms of people who vote.
0:26:10 And some, this is, I think you’re just gonna see
0:26:12 more and more candidates on podcasts.
0:26:13 What do you think, Jess?
0:26:16 – Absolutely, I think that they are
0:26:19 for the sheer reach numbers also for the ability
0:26:21 to be able to frame their answers
0:26:26 in a way that they think is positive to their campaign.
0:26:30 I mean, the problem with quote, mainstream interviews
0:26:33 is you’re gonna have to deal with the framing of a question
0:26:34 in the way that you might not like.
0:26:37 And then you have one minute to respond
0:26:39 and you have to spend 30 seconds talking your way back
0:26:43 into the approach that you wanted to take.
0:26:46 And I think that’s why you see people
0:26:47 moving to other spaces.
0:26:48 And it’s not just Kamala doing it.
0:26:51 Obviously, Trump has been doing this,
0:26:53 Theo Vaughn, Lex Friedman.
0:26:55 I’m sure if Rogan said, come on here,
0:26:56 he would be there in a second.
0:26:58 I think Kamala should do Rogan.
0:27:01 He was gushing about how great her debate performance was.
0:27:03 Tell Rogan, I’ll give you half an hour.
0:27:05 Don’t try anything funny.
0:27:07 And I bet he would play by the rules,
0:27:10 understanding how important that moment is.
0:27:12 I mean, the Howard Stern interview,
0:27:16 his audience might not be as big as it used to be.
0:27:18 It’s still pretty large,
0:27:21 but there was the Hillary Clinton regretted
0:27:24 not going on before the election in 2016.
0:27:26 He gave her, it was the best interview
0:27:29 that anyone had ever heard Hillary do.
0:27:32 And she was able to do that because it was long form like that.
0:27:36 And I think one thing that they can do with these podcasts
0:27:38 is it doesn’t lend itself to clip culture in the same way,
0:27:40 which I think is so damaging.
0:27:42 And I realized that a lot of people consume me
0:27:44 from the five through clip culture.
0:27:47 And I am thankful for everyone who has found me that way.
0:27:49 – The clip culture has made Jessica Tarleff just so you know.
0:27:51 – I am just a clip. – You literally fill up there.
0:27:53 Yeah, but you’re all, that’s how I know.
0:27:55 You’re all over TikTok.
0:27:57 You are literally, you’re the clipster.
0:28:02 I mean, you are everywhere on social.
0:28:05 So back to the TV thing in terms of how mediums are changing.
0:28:06 I’m a narcissist.
0:28:10 I love seeing myself on the big screen.
0:28:13 And this week I was asked to go on Anderson Cooper 360.
0:28:15 And I love Anderson.
0:28:17 I think he’s a huge talent.
0:28:18 And I’m out here on the West coast.
0:28:21 They wanted me to come on and talk about Musk and Trump.
0:28:23 And that’s kind of in my wheelhouse a little bit.
0:28:25 And I thought, you know what?
0:28:29 I’m not gonna do it because I find TV so difficult.
0:28:33 It’s basically make a point that has a twist of phrase
0:28:36 or some sort of insight on something everyone else
0:28:38 has been covering for the last 48 hours.
0:28:40 Make it emphatically, make it crisply
0:28:42 and then shut the fuck up
0:28:44 ’cause we gotta go somewhere opioid-induced
0:28:46 constipation medication.
0:28:48 There’s just nothing thoughtful about it.
0:28:50 It’s so constricted by time.
0:28:54 And then if you look at the numbers, the reality is
0:28:56 very few people are watching television.
0:28:59 I mean, I used to jump at every attempt 10 or 15 years ago
0:29:02 when I was asked to do TV no matter where I was.
0:29:04 I’ve been like scrambling to figure out a way.
0:29:07 Now I’m, you know, I’d rather just hang by the pool.
0:29:09 I’d rather hang by the pool, Jess.
0:29:12 – Okay, well, counterpoints to that.
0:29:15 – Says a TV star. – 60 Minutes of 10 Million Viewers.
0:29:17 Says a TV Clipster.
0:29:21 But I would be willing to bet, I don’t know how much,
0:29:24 that you have a devout fan base
0:29:27 that came for your Morning Joe interview.
0:29:28 – Go on.
0:29:31 – Your Morning Joe interview about October 7th
0:29:33 and the Israeli response.
0:29:35 And you gave all the numbers
0:29:38 of how many fewer casualties there were
0:29:41 with the way that Netanyahu was executing this
0:29:44 versus what happened during World War II.
0:29:47 And I know, I had friends who were in Scott Galloway
0:29:49 people before that who saw it and said,
0:29:51 oh, I really like this guy.
0:29:54 So you have benefited from the television greatly
0:29:55 in the last year.
0:29:58 – So, first off, thank you for being generous.
0:30:02 The, there are a few shows.
0:30:03 It’s, everything comes down
0:30:05 to some form of genie coefficient or income inequality.
0:30:07 I don’t care if it’s actual income inequality
0:30:10 or mating on Tinder.
0:30:13 Everything’s becoming kind of a win or take most atmosphere.
0:30:14 There’s a small number of podcasts
0:30:16 making all of the money.
0:30:18 And it’s absolutely happening everywhere.
0:30:20 It’s also happening in TV.
0:30:25 Morning Joe, The View, Your Show, The Five.
0:30:30 There’s like a handful of numbers or a handful of shows
0:30:33 that are just kind of mopping up the entire audience
0:30:36 and everything else is in the long tail.
0:30:38 And it’s true in podcasting too.
0:30:40 Anyways, Jess, I hate to move on
0:30:44 ’cause I love talking about my favorite subject, me.
0:30:45 But let’s move on.
0:30:48 You had referenced earlier that Liz Cheney
0:30:50 is out there campaigning for.
0:30:51 Let’s, we have a clip for that.
0:30:52 Let’s take a listen.
0:30:56 – I tell you, I have never voted for a Democrat.
0:31:01 But this year, I am proudly casting my vote
0:31:03 for Vice President Kamala Harris.
0:31:08 – I just can’t figure out if, I mean, I get the theme.
0:31:10 I just can’t figure out if Representative Cheney
0:31:11 and Representative Kitzinger,
0:31:13 everyone already knows how they feel.
0:31:15 And if it has no impact.
0:31:18 I do think if I were the Harris campaign though,
0:31:19 and I think it’s coming,
0:31:21 I would have this ground invasion
0:31:24 leading up to the election.
0:31:27 And I guess we’re there the 30 days out
0:31:31 of literally the world’s best team of surrogates in history.
0:31:34 I think people from all walks of life
0:31:37 are really interested, famous athletes
0:31:40 you wouldn’t expect, former Republicans.
0:31:43 I think they could just, they’re just gonna roll out.
0:31:46 Oh, by the way, this person’s also
0:31:49 a very much supporting Vice President Harris.
0:31:50 I don’t know if celebrity endorsements work.
0:31:52 Celebrities, Democrats have always gotten more celebrities
0:31:53 than the Republican.
0:31:56 And I’m not sure it’s ever been shown to be that effective.
0:31:59 But I think they’re gonna just literally overwhelm
0:32:02 the airwaves with famous high Q,
0:32:06 whether it’s Taylor Swift or Bruce Springsteen.
0:32:08 And they’re gonna have Musk and Ted Nugent.
0:32:11 I don’t know if there’s that many kind of people
0:32:14 willing to go out there and talk about Trump right now.
0:32:15 Do you think the surrogates,
0:32:16 have you heard anything about the quote-unquote
0:32:18 the surrogate strategy?
0:32:20 Yeah, and I spoke with the campaign about it
0:32:25 and they, it’s very specialized and it’s very targeted.
0:32:28 And this group of disaffected Republicans,
0:32:31 like the Nikki Haley voters from the primary,
0:32:34 I don’t wanna say it’s the number one target
0:32:36 but among swing voters that they think
0:32:38 they have a shot with, it definitely is.
0:32:42 She is doing, I wanna make sure that I get this right.
0:32:47 She’s up 18 with white voters with a college degree.
0:32:52 Biden was plus nine, it’s a huge shift.
0:32:54 So Hillary won that by five or six,
0:32:58 then up to nine with Biden and now plus 18, if this holds,
0:33:03 which makes it the biggest swing voting block in the country.
0:33:08 And those voters are Liz Cheney voters,
0:33:11 or a lot of them are, they’re white suburban women
0:33:16 who can’t believe that their daddy’s Republican party
0:33:17 looks like this.
0:33:20 They care about abortion and the right to choose,
0:33:24 but they do care about this protecting democracy argument,
0:33:26 perhaps more than anything.
0:33:30 And I think it could be one of the biggest realignments
0:33:32 in our politics that we’ve seen.
0:33:35 So yes, the effort is big, there’s a ton of money behind it.
0:33:36 It’s very targeted.
0:33:38 I agree with you about the celebrities.
0:33:41 I think that will matter a lot less.
0:33:42 It probably galvanizes young people.
0:33:46 If you see, oh, Taylor Swift or Billie Eilish,
0:33:47 what will Beyonce do?
0:33:49 I assume at some point the endorsement is coming
0:33:53 since she’s leased freedom, the song, to them.
0:33:58 But people are most affected by a personal olive branch.
0:34:00 So someone’s showing up at your door,
0:34:03 explaining why it is that they support ex-candidate.
0:34:05 They know where these voters are.
0:34:07 And all of Nikki Haley’s infrastructure,
0:34:10 I found this fascinating from her primary campaign,
0:34:12 are now for Harris.
0:34:13 – So Trump isn’t sitting still.
0:34:16 He’s been making headlines on the campaign trail as well.
0:34:19 Over the weekend, he returned to Butler, Pennsylvania,
0:34:20 the place where he narrowly escaped
0:34:22 the first assassination attempt.
0:34:25 This time he campaigned alongside Elon Musk.
0:34:28 Let’s hear what Musk had to say, oh shit, let’s not.
0:34:31 Okay, let’s go ahead, Caroline, play the clip.
0:34:35 – President Trump must win to preserve the Constitution.
0:34:38 He must win to preserve democracy in America.
0:34:41 – Yeah, there’s something like a billionaire
0:34:42 with a South African accent to lecture me
0:34:43 on the Constitution.
0:34:45 What did you think of this?
0:34:47 – I found it frightening.
0:34:50 Well, first of all, the good side of it was,
0:34:54 I do think it’s cool that he went back to Butler.
0:34:56 – It was a great move, great move.
0:34:59 – And I think that he was also giving a lot of people
0:35:02 who had come to that rally the experience
0:35:06 that they were expecting to have that day,
0:35:11 and obviously were robbed of, and a man lost his life,
0:35:14 and there was a celebration of that as well.
0:35:16 I thought Trump was funny when he started.
0:35:21 He said, as I was saying, which is a pretty good opener,
0:35:23 considering what had happened.
0:35:26 So I think that’s important in the plus column.
0:35:31 The Musk aspect of this, and you know, way better than I do,
0:35:36 he seems completely off his rocker at this point.
0:35:39 I mean, this is a guy who said he had to buy Twitter
0:35:42 to make sure that there were no politics in it,
0:35:45 because Jack Dorsey was too left leaning.
0:35:49 Someone who, I assume his politics are Democrat leading,
0:35:50 but as far as I know,
0:35:53 was just sitting around on a beach in Bali,
0:35:55 not really doing anything.
0:35:59 And now Musk is censoring accounts,
0:36:03 putting $45 million a month into a Trump PAC,
0:36:04 out there advocating for him,
0:36:07 and saying that the country will cease to exist
0:36:08 if Trump doesn’t win.
0:36:11 What is that, what happened here?
0:36:14 – What strikes me in Musk is part of it.
0:36:16 I think a larger issue in America,
0:36:19 and that is everyone always talked about character
0:36:20 as it relates to the president,
0:36:24 and I think most recently we’ve come to realize
0:36:27 that Americans really don’t give a flying fuck about character.
0:36:29 At least that’s my takeaway here.
0:36:34 Trump is just the guy you would shudder
0:36:37 if you found out your daughter was dating.
0:36:42 He doesn’t appear to, I mean, world’s worst boss, right?
0:36:48 Vice President Pence was a loyal lapdog, really obsequious.
0:36:50 I think actually Vice President Pence,
0:36:51 given the mission he was given,
0:36:54 the assignment was actually a very good vice president
0:36:59 for the president, and sent people hunting for him
0:37:02 who had nooses, but it doesn’t seem like people,
0:37:05 people don’t seem to care.
0:37:09 And then Musk, what I see on the other side is,
0:37:11 I interview all the time these people in tech,
0:37:13 in venture capitalist, and any venture capitalist
0:37:15 or banker or other person in tech,
0:37:17 they begin, they sort of do the caveat,
0:37:19 like yeah, some of his tweets aren’t like
0:37:21 when they’re talking about Musk.
0:37:24 Sometimes I think he gets a little,
0:37:26 he lets his fingers do the walking.
0:37:29 They’re constantly making excuses for a man
0:37:32 who has 12 kids by three women
0:37:33 and doesn’t live with any of them.
0:37:35 In my opinion, that’s like job one.
0:37:37 That just kind of disqualifies you as a man
0:37:39 when you’re not living in the same household
0:37:41 as your children, and you could be.
0:37:42 It’s not because of resources,
0:37:43 it’s not because of family court,
0:37:44 it’s not because he had to make a living
0:37:45 and go somewhere else.
0:37:49 He chooses not to be around for his children.
0:37:52 He accuses his employees of being sex criminals
0:37:54 when they’re not such that they actually have to move home.
0:37:56 So he refuses to pay severance,
0:38:00 legally obligated severance to employees that he fires.
0:38:02 And the absolute, the worst thing I have seen
0:38:05 across any public figure recently
0:38:08 is other than maybe what’s going on with Diddy,
0:38:12 is a father going publicly on Jordan Peterson
0:38:15 and saying that his daughter who went through transition
0:38:17 is now dead to him.
0:38:20 I mean, and then these VCs go on to talk about
0:38:22 the great things he’s doing and his genius.
0:38:24 And it’s like, do you realize what money
0:38:25 has fucking done to us?
0:38:27 Because this guy is rich,
0:38:31 we have decided that regardless of how depraved
0:38:35 his behavior acquits him with respect to being a dad,
0:38:38 being a citizen, being a boss,
0:38:39 being a friend of people,
0:38:42 that he is an awful human being,
0:38:45 but he makes a great fucking car.
0:38:47 So let’s just shove all of that to the side.
0:38:48 And there’s a chance I’ll get to invest
0:38:51 in the D round of SpaceX.
0:38:52 So I’m gonna ignore all of that.
0:38:55 And that same turning a blind eye
0:38:59 to anything resembling what we would expect of men,
0:39:02 we just decide, no, I kind of like,
0:39:04 I just kind of like the cut of his jib
0:39:06 and the policies and his brashness.
0:39:08 And he’s gonna burn everything down
0:39:09 and my life isn’t going great.
0:39:10 And Instagram is reminding me every day
0:39:13 that my life isn’t going nearly as great as everyone else.
0:39:16 So I just like this guy ’cause he’s so,
0:39:18 he’s such a fucking pyromaniac
0:39:20 and it’s gonna burn the place down.
0:39:23 There’s this element of if you’re brash,
0:39:25 you’re angry in your course,
0:39:29 that masks for, that’s a bad imitation,
0:39:31 a rich little imitation of what it means
0:39:33 to be masculine and a man and a leader.
0:39:34 And the country just appears
0:39:37 to have embraced all of this shit.
0:39:41 – I wanna ask you then about,
0:39:43 ’cause this is current events and it’s Musk
0:39:49 and how you apply your prism to the Starlink
0:39:53 and what Musk has been able to do
0:39:56 for the victims of Hurricane Helene,
0:39:58 which has been devastating.
0:40:02 And we know about Trump proliferating these lies
0:40:05 that Biden wiped out the FEMA funds
0:40:07 to give them to undocumented people
0:40:11 and all these Republicans elected officials
0:40:13 have been saying like cut it out.
0:40:15 People are not getting the services that they need
0:40:16 because you’re lying about this.
0:40:20 But one thing Musk has done is delivered satellites
0:40:25 to people in Ukraine and Estonia in North Carolina.
0:40:29 I can’t just see you through this negative prism.
0:40:34 – Well, this is the issue and that is on a net basis.
0:40:37 I actually think there’s a very decent argument
0:40:40 that Elon Musk has been a net positive for society.
0:40:43 He has inspired the race around EVs.
0:40:46 The satellite technology is really inspiring.
0:40:49 He puts things into space for less money than anyone else.
0:40:54 That will have a hugely positive impact on our society.
0:40:57 The problem is with the word net
0:41:01 and that is I don’t forgive people for being a net good
0:41:03 when they have that sort of blessing
0:41:06 and it wouldn’t be hard not to accuse your employees
0:41:07 of being a sex criminal.
0:41:10 It wouldn’t be difficult to have a baseline level
0:41:12 of fatherhood running through your veins
0:41:16 and not say that your daughter is dead to you.
0:41:18 I think pesticides are a net good
0:41:21 but we still have an FDA.
0:41:24 I think fossil fuels are actually a net good
0:41:25 but we still have emission standards
0:41:28 and are trying to deal with climate change.
0:41:31 And what I hate about kind of our societies,
0:41:34 the rubric as you put it is that we look at technology
0:41:37 and if you have innovated around technology,
0:41:40 you get 10 times the affinity, the goodwill,
0:41:42 the forgiveness to get out of jail cards
0:41:45 than if you innovate around agriculture
0:41:47 or you innovate around public policy.
0:41:50 That’s like who he or she is a smart person
0:41:52 but if you can figure out a way to put satellites
0:41:54 into space or have a really cool electric car
0:41:58 or even a photo sharing app, you’re Jesus Christ
0:42:00 and should be forgiven for all of your sins.
0:42:04 So yes, is Musk a net good for society?
0:42:04 I think he is.
0:42:06 The problem is with the word net
0:42:09 and he should absolutely be held accountable
0:42:12 for these really vile things he does.
0:42:15 I find the whole thing very unsettling.
0:42:17 I think there are a few people
0:42:19 that could be worse role models for young men
0:42:21 than Donald Trump or Elon Musk.
0:42:23 And I keep hoping that young men
0:42:24 and I’m curious at what you think here,
0:42:27 I’m keep hoping that young men
0:42:29 who are kind of leaving the Democratic party
0:42:32 because they don’t feel seen towards the end
0:42:35 will break for, you know, gender equality
0:42:37 which they, in a bodily autonomy,
0:42:39 which actually young men support at some
0:42:41 of the same levels as young women.
0:42:43 And then someone just kind of reminds me to say,
0:42:44 Scott, they’re not going to vote.
0:42:46 They’re not going to be important here either way.
0:42:47 They’re not going to vote.
0:42:49 What are your thoughts?
0:42:50 I don’t think they’re going to vote
0:42:52 in the same kind of numbers obviously,
0:42:56 but I think there’s a strong chance that they will vote.
0:43:00 And if the referendums post jobs have been any indication,
0:43:03 young men are showing up for that as well.
0:43:08 And that’s a hyper excited segment of the population.
0:43:12 But I wouldn’t completely write them off for it.
0:43:14 I think there’s a reason Trump is doing a lot
0:43:17 of this low propensity voter media,
0:43:20 like the theovons of the world.
0:43:23 But it will be interesting to see
0:43:26 because I imagine, you know,
0:43:30 people have found a way to consensus usually.
0:43:32 I’m not saying that it’s even,
0:43:36 but we’ve found a way to some degree of agreement.
0:43:41 And if it continues like this or what it is projected to be,
0:43:43 this feels like it’ll be the first time
0:43:45 where that won’t be happening.
0:43:48 And maybe I just believe too much in human nature
0:43:51 or in the good of people that we will come back
0:43:55 to a little bit less of such a stark gender gap.
0:43:57 And I think to push that forward
0:43:59 or to get us closer to that result,
0:44:01 obviously there’s a lot of work
0:44:04 that Democrats need to do around messaging,
0:44:08 around policy, around opportunities for men.
0:44:10 But I am hopeful that we’re not gonna have
0:44:13 like a 20 point gender gap.
0:44:15 Frankly, it shouldn’t be in either direction.
0:44:16 Looks like the female one
0:44:19 because of reproductive choice will probably be that way.
0:44:22 But that men will hue closer to it
0:44:26 because some things will be more important than Machismo
0:44:28 or how they’re being spoken to
0:44:29 or just a feeling of inclusivity.
0:44:33 Actually don’t wanna demean it down to be some macho thing.
0:44:35 You know, it doesn’t, you wanna go somewhere
0:44:38 where you feel included and spoken to.
0:44:42 And we haven’t been fostering that environment for a while.
0:44:47 – Okay, we’ll be right back after a quick break
0:44:49 to discuss Melania Trump’s press tour
0:44:51 for her new book, Stay With Us.
0:44:55 – Fox Creative.
0:44:59 This is “Apertizer Content” from Virgin Atlantic.
0:44:59 (beeping)
0:45:00 – Hey, Kara, it’s Scott.
0:45:03 Remember me, the guy, Tina Fade, your Alec Baldwin
0:45:05 sort of rejuvenated your career.
0:45:06 And he was, I’m at the lounge at Heathrow.
0:45:08 I’m at the Leathrow, the Virgin Lounge,
0:45:10 the Virgin Atlantic Clubhouse Lounge.
0:45:13 And I’m about to have the chicken tikka masala.
0:45:14 I love it here.
0:45:15 You should check it out.
0:45:17 It’s where the cool kids hang out.
0:45:18 Anyways, hope you’re all safe travels.
0:45:19 (beeping)
0:45:20 – Scott, frankly, it’s a miracle
0:45:22 that Virgin Atlantic let you into the clubhouse
0:45:24 and their incredible business class.
0:45:25 But I guess they did.
0:45:27 Tell me how it was.
0:45:29 – So, Kara, I’m an original gangster
0:45:31 when it comes to Virgin.
0:45:35 I’ve been flying Virgin for 20 plus years.
0:45:36 And I do the same thing.
0:45:38 And they get it right every time.
0:45:40 They always have the financial times for me.
0:45:42 And I order the chicken tikka masala.
0:45:43 – Oh.
0:45:46 – That is my Virgin experience.
0:45:48 If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
0:45:50 – And your drink was, what is your drink?
0:45:52 – Well, I used to drink a Bloody Mary
0:45:54 or a beer in the clubhouse.
0:45:57 I started, I don’t drink alcohol when I travel anymore.
0:45:58 So I just do mineral water,
0:46:00 but they have this kind of cool cocktail
0:46:02 that’s like a lemongrass
0:46:04 or some sort of cool margarita thing.
0:46:06 And I get it, I get a Virgin one.
0:46:07 – What is your pre-flight routine?
0:46:10 What is your actual, besides your chicken tikka masala,
0:46:11 the Virgin clubhouse?
0:46:14 – My pre-flight routine is,
0:46:15 well, I always do the same thing the morning when I travel.
0:46:16 I try and work out.
0:46:17 I take the dogs for a walk.
0:46:19 And I always make time for the clubhouse
0:46:22 ’cause I do enjoy the Virgin clubhouse at Heathrow.
0:46:24 So check out virginatlantic.com for your next trip
0:46:26 and see the world differently.
0:46:28 Certain amenities are only available
0:46:29 in selected cabins and aircraft.
0:46:35 – All right, Jess, Melania Trump is making headlines
0:46:36 while promoting her new memoir
0:46:39 and taking a stance on a key election issue,
0:46:41 one that actually puts her at odds with her husband.
0:46:42 Let’s take a listen.
0:46:46 – Individual freedom is a fundamental principle
0:46:47 that I safeguard.
0:46:51 Without a doubt, there is no room for compromise
0:46:54 when it comes to this essential right
0:46:57 that all women possess from birth.
0:46:59 Individual freedom.
0:47:03 What does my body, my choice, really mean?
0:47:08 – I’m sorry, it’s like an “SNL” sketch.
0:47:10 Whenever I hear this shit, I’m like, is this really real?
0:47:13 What do you think is going on here?
0:47:15 – Oh, I think it’s a completely cynical play
0:47:19 set up by her husband to make them seem less radical.
0:47:19 – Softer, yeah.
0:47:24 Yeah, like J.D. Vance got the ball rolling at the debate
0:47:29 with a very fact-free answer to put it politely
0:47:33 about being pro-family and steering away
0:47:36 from any talk of national abortion bans,
0:47:41 which he, it was on his website until it wasn’t.
0:47:44 But I don’t believe anything that comes out
0:47:45 of Melania’s mouth.
0:47:50 And it seems pretty nakedly fake.
0:47:54 – It really does seem, I mean, Melania’s been pretty absent
0:47:55 from the campaign until now.
0:47:57 And then here she is delivering a message
0:47:59 that undercuts Trump’s stance.
0:48:01 I’m curious if it has any impact,
0:48:05 but I do get some joy from the fact that she can’t,
0:48:07 my impression is she can’t stand him.
0:48:10 Like she just doesn’t want to spend time with him.
0:48:12 Is that, am I, as a woman–
0:48:14 – Well, they’re always separate.
0:48:16 – Yeah, they’re never together.
0:48:19 – So I grew up in New York City
0:48:21 and the Trump kids grew up here.
0:48:24 And I had friends who, I mean, Baron is much younger
0:48:27 than us, but went to the school that Baron went to
0:48:32 and said that she was an incredibly hands-on mom,
0:48:35 like doing pickup and drop off, had friends,
0:48:39 seemed remarkably normal for the circumstances.
0:48:42 And if the rumors are true about it,
0:48:45 that she got a new prenup when he ran,
0:48:47 then she got a new one when he ran again.
0:48:51 And again, I guess hats off to her as a businesswoman,
0:48:55 but this does not seem like what she bargained for.
0:48:58 I think she just wanted to marry an older rich guy
0:49:00 and have a nice life in New York City.
0:49:03 And she’s ended up with what this is.
0:49:06 And is Melania probably pro-choice?
0:49:08 Yeah, I would expect so.
0:49:11 I mean, most women are anyway,
0:49:14 especially most women who grew up in a European context,
0:49:16 who think it’s absolutely insane
0:49:18 that we would be regulating something like this
0:49:20 at least at the six-week level.
0:49:22 I know the European standard is usually 15 weeks,
0:49:26 but I can’t pity her anymore.
0:49:29 You know, one time, okay,
0:49:32 maybe you didn’t know that it was gonna be Muslim bands.
0:49:34 Second time, you did know.
0:49:37 And the third time, you really did know.
0:49:39 And covering for him like this,
0:49:41 I think is a pretty gross move.
0:49:42 And it doesn’t have any crossover appeal.
0:49:45 Like I don’t know anyone who doesn’t like Trump,
0:49:49 who thinks that Melania is a messenger of anything
0:49:52 besides her husband’s bidding.
0:49:54 – Before we wrap up, this year marks one year
0:49:57 since the October 7th attack on Israel.
0:49:58 And now there are growing concerns
0:50:01 about a broader conflict in the Middle East.
0:50:04 Just last week, Iran launched its largest missile attack
0:50:05 ever against Israel.
0:50:07 I wanna point out, this is the largest
0:50:10 or the biggest missile barrage in history.
0:50:13 And over the weekend, and by the way, it failed.
0:50:15 Both American and Israeli forces
0:50:18 were able to basically neuter this entire attack.
0:50:20 It was totally ineffectual.
0:50:22 Prime Minister Netanyahu warned that the country
0:50:24 is now fighting on seven different fronts,
0:50:27 referring to them as the enemies of civilization.
0:50:29 Heavy Israeli airstrikes hit Southern Beirut
0:50:31 overnight, targeting Hezbollah.
0:50:34 Meanwhile, the Biden administration has made it clear
0:50:38 that U.S. support for Israel remains unwavering.
0:50:43 Just any thoughts on, I wonder if one of these
0:50:46 three October surprises, the Longshoremen strike,
0:50:49 what’s happening in the Middle East,
0:50:51 or potentially something around the hurricane,
0:50:54 might in fact swing the election one way or the other.
0:50:56 What are your thoughts about some of these
0:50:58 potential October surprises that are sort of
0:51:00 out of either campaign’s control?
0:51:06 – So far, Longshoremen strike handled.
0:51:08 I don’t think anyone will remember that that happened.
0:51:09 – And you don’t think the Biden administration
0:51:11 or Harris gets any credit for that?
0:51:12 – I think they get minimal credit,
0:51:16 but frankly, if you want the pro-union argument,
0:51:17 you’re going with the auto workers,
0:51:19 with them on the picket line,
0:51:23 which was revolutionary in American politics.
0:51:25 And also the Longshoremen union boss,
0:51:28 it seems like such a corrupt criminal.
0:51:31 I mean, the stories about the RICO charges
0:51:33 that got dropped because the guy,
0:51:35 the guy ended up in the back of a car,
0:51:36 the trunk of a car.
0:51:40 So I think that’s off the table.
0:51:42 I think the Middle East definitely could
0:51:43 matter in this.
0:51:48 And I was struck, I spent this morning,
0:51:51 we’re recording on October 7th,
0:51:56 reviewing old missives from the date of the attack.
0:52:01 And I was particularly upset by there was a,
0:52:04 someone had put together all of these text messages,
0:52:07 like the last texts that some of these Israelis
0:52:09 who were murdered were sending to their loved ones.
0:52:11 And it made me think of 9/11.
0:52:12 – Heartbreaking.
0:52:14 – Completely got wrenching.
0:52:18 And what kept coming up over and over again
0:52:21 was this feeling on behalf of the Israelis
0:52:25 that the army was coming and they didn’t come.
0:52:29 They were hours and hours and hours too late for this.
0:52:34 And the sense of let down that this people
0:52:37 that put so much stock in the IDF
0:52:39 and the importance of serving your country,
0:52:44 and they do it with such pride and such magic
0:52:47 were left alone.
0:52:51 And the feeling has, I feel like shifted so much,
0:52:55 so much more goodwill towards what Nanyahu is doing
0:52:57 to the point that Benny Gantz wrote an op-ed
0:52:59 in the New York Times over the weekend,
0:53:02 which basically signaled we’re all aligned at this point.
0:53:04 We have to finish the job with Iran.
0:53:07 And it feels like they are weakened at this moment
0:53:10 and that this is the time to do it,
0:53:12 which is such a scary thing to say
0:53:15 because that means a much broader conflict,
0:53:19 but that you almost can’t say no at this point.
0:53:20 I don’t know if you felt that as well,
0:53:22 but it was stark for me.
0:53:25 – Well, look, we’re both Jews.
0:53:30 So I think this impacts us, not more,
0:53:32 ’cause then there’s a lot of people that are concerned,
0:53:34 but in a different way.
0:53:37 This year for me politically more than anything
0:53:40 has rattled me because as of October 6th, 2023,
0:53:44 if someone had asked me what the state of anti-Semitism was,
0:53:49 I felt that America had sort of grown past anti-Semitism.
0:53:51 And some of my older Jewish friends would say,
0:53:54 “Scott, you don’t realize that this exists
0:53:54 and it’s always there.”
0:53:56 And I’d be like, “Oh, you’re being paranoid.
0:53:58 I understand your concern, what you saw,
0:54:00 what you experienced.”
0:54:01 And I could not have been more wrong.
0:54:03 I think that is the most surprising thing
0:54:05 that has happened to me over the last year
0:54:09 was that that adage that two thirds of an iceberg’s flow
0:54:11 is below the surface line.
0:54:15 And what I’ve come to believe is that 99.9% of anti-Semitism
0:54:18 was lying below the surface and it just erupted.
0:54:20 I think Biden has handled this terribly
0:54:24 in the sense that I think he’s actually been quite supportive
0:54:26 of Israel on the ground and there was no other leader
0:54:30 that immediately deployed to aircraft carrier strike forces.
0:54:34 So I think, and yet he comes across his milk toast,
0:54:35 says, “We’re handling this.
0:54:35 We’re putting pressure.
0:54:37 I’m disappointed.”
0:54:40 So he gets no credit for the immense support he’s provided
0:54:43 and yet gets blamed for looking weak in the face of Netanyahu
0:54:44 who’s like, “Oh, thanks.
0:54:46 Thanks very much for your advice.
0:54:47 Now hold my beer.”
0:54:52 So, and I’m shocked at how much support Netanyahu,
0:54:56 how his fortunes have changed over the last 30 days.
0:54:58 I guess it will wrap up here.
0:55:01 Do you think this will have any real tangible impact
0:55:02 on the election?
0:55:05 ‘Cause I have quite a few friends who were center left
0:55:06 who are now gonna vote for Trump
0:55:08 because they’ve become single issue voters.
0:55:13 And they just want a total resolute view on this.
0:55:15 And correctly or incorrectly,
0:55:18 they see Trump as being less wavering
0:55:19 than Vice President Harris.
0:55:23 Do you think this has any impact on actual voter
0:55:25 on any of these swing stats?
0:55:29 – Potentially in a Pennsylvania or a Michigan,
0:55:32 I guess Arizona, but really on the margins.
0:55:35 And we’re a small but mighty group,
0:55:38 but we are really small.
0:55:43 And it takes a lot for someone who is typically center left
0:55:47 to move over to voting for Donald Trump.
0:55:49 That doesn’t mean it isn’t happening,
0:55:54 but like I have a friend, a couple where the wife,
0:55:58 it sounds like is going to probably vote for Donald Trump,
0:56:02 even though she’s pro-choice, et cetera.
0:56:05 But the husband will stay home.
0:56:07 And I think it could be more stay home
0:56:11 than it would be voting for Trump.
0:56:15 And that a lot of these people also are in New York or California,
0:56:18 where that isn’t going to make a massive amount of difference.
0:56:21 But I think it’s something and it’s also emblematic
0:56:26 of a foreign policy that people could look to and say,
0:56:29 okay, well, we have a war in Ukraine,
0:56:32 which we didn’t have when Donald Trump was in office.
0:56:35 Now we have this war in the Middle East
0:56:37 that we didn’t have when Donald Trump was in office.
0:56:38 And we had the Abraham Accords
0:56:40 and we moved the embassy to Jerusalem.
0:56:43 Now, I don’t believe in that argument.
0:56:45 I think that you have a very strong counter-argument to that,
0:56:49 but that’s persuasive for a lot of people.
0:56:51 – Yeah, I think Harris and Biden
0:56:54 have handled it really poorly, not on the ground,
0:56:55 but because they haven’t been able to figure out a way
0:56:57 to take credit for it.
0:56:58 – Well, Harris’s answer on “60 Minutes”
0:57:00 I thought was very interesting.
0:57:01 When she was asked if Bebe was an ally
0:57:03 and she said the American people
0:57:05 and the Israeli people are allies.
0:57:06 – Yeah, she handled it well.
0:57:07 – And I think that that’s spot on.
0:57:10 But that’s a tough one as well at this moment.
0:57:12 I saw a lot of Jews outraged.
0:57:15 Like this is the moment to kick Bebe.
0:57:18 You know, he’s the one that’s actually going out there
0:57:20 and winning this for us.
0:57:24 But I think long-term that that is a very smart place
0:57:26 for the American government to be,
0:57:30 that we are a united people, Israelis and Americans.
0:57:32 – Yeah, 100% agree.
0:57:34 All right, that’s all for this episode, Jess.
0:57:36 Thank you for listening to “Raging Moderates.”
0:57:38 Our producers are Caroline Shagren and David Toledo.
0:57:40 Our technical director is Drew Burrows.
0:57:42 You can find “Raging Moderates”
0:57:43 on the project called Every Tuesday
0:57:46 and on YouTube every Wednesday.
0:57:48 Just have a great rest of the week.
0:57:49 – You too.
0:57:51 (upbeat music)
0:57:54 (upbeat music)
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