646: The 9 Buyers: The Key to Stronger Connections and Easier Sales

0:00:01 (upbeat music)
0:00:02 If you create content online,
0:00:05 if you sell anything online in person over the phone,
0:00:07 and you want to make stronger connections,
0:00:07 you want to reach more people
0:00:10 and ultimately make some more money,
0:00:12 stick around in this one to learn how to do it
0:00:15 by speaking directly to the nine buyers.
0:00:18 These are nine specific customer personas,
0:00:20 each with unique needs,
0:00:23 but there are some quick and simple ways to resonate with them
0:00:25 to get better results in your business.
0:00:28 To help me out with this one is a professional copywriter.
0:00:31 She’s the author of the nine buyers system
0:00:33 from ninebuyersystem.com.
0:00:35 Melanie Warren, welcome to The Side Hustle Show.
0:00:37 – Hi, I’m super excited to be here.
0:00:38 – Me as well.
0:00:40 Melanie, her work has helped sell millions of dollars
0:00:42 worth of products and services,
0:00:44 and she has graciously agreed to stop by
0:00:46 and give us the goods for free today.
0:00:47 We’re going three rounds with Melanie.
0:00:49 First up is that nine buyer system,
0:00:51 how we can better tailor our content
0:00:54 and messaging to meet our customers where they’re at.
0:00:56 After that, we’re playing donate a business idea
0:00:58 and wrapping up with the triple threat
0:01:00 that is a marketing tactic that’s working right now.
0:01:02 I’m curious to get your take on the state
0:01:05 of the copywriting industry as it relates to AI,
0:01:07 a new or new to you tool that you’re loving right now.
0:01:10 And finally, your favorite book from the last 12 months.
0:01:12 So as you’re listening in, you got to think,
0:01:14 well, which buyer am I?
0:01:16 And you got to think, well, what buyer type
0:01:17 is my target audience?
0:01:21 And we like to think of ourselves as logical beings,
0:01:24 logical creatures, but I think when it comes down to it,
0:01:28 a lot of buying decisions need to check that emotion box first
0:01:29 and then we’re going to justify it
0:01:31 with the logic box second.
0:01:35 So the first buyer on the list here
0:01:37 is this respect me buyer.
0:01:40 Can you talk me through what this buyer is like
0:01:42 and what they need or want to hear?
0:01:45 – Yes, so there are nine types.
0:01:49 And what’s important about that is we are holistic beings.
0:01:52 So like everything else in life, we’re whole people.
0:01:54 And then of course, everything is on a spectrum.
0:01:58 So anything that I say that sounds absolute,
0:02:02 go ahead and pepper that in with your own lived experience
0:02:04 because we grow and change.
0:02:07 But specifically, the respect me buyer
0:02:10 cares very much about other people
0:02:12 recognizing their importance.
0:02:14 So if you’ve ever got into a disagreement
0:02:16 with your significant other
0:02:18 and that person felt disrespected,
0:02:20 what they are saying is in this moment,
0:02:23 I don’t feel important to you or important in this scenario.
0:02:26 Could you please help me feel like I matter?
0:02:27 – Yeah.
0:02:30 – If you can get that idea across in your copy,
0:02:32 the way this usually gets talked about in copy
0:02:35 is don’t talk down to people,
0:02:36 but that depends on where you are.
0:02:38 And you’re like, well, but I’m an expert
0:02:40 at whatever my thing is
0:02:43 and that person doesn’t know about that.
0:02:45 So I might accidentally be talking down to them,
0:02:47 am I doing this wrong?
0:02:50 And the answer is as long as you have the overriding idea
0:02:54 that my customer is important, I agree.
0:02:55 They know that they’re important
0:02:57 and I agree with that belief, you should be okay.
0:03:00 – Any specific language frameworks
0:03:03 that you’ve seen work well in that
0:03:05 to not talk down to someone
0:03:07 and make them feel important and respected?
0:03:11 – Yes, I use ideas like you can pace their reality.
0:03:13 The experience you’re having right now is,
0:03:16 so maybe you just did a sales call with them last week
0:03:19 and you’re reaching out one more time, mention it.
0:03:21 Because if you mention somebody else’s reality,
0:03:23 that’s a way to demonstrate
0:03:26 that you believe that their experience is important.
0:03:29 So everything I’m gonna tell you is very simple like that.
0:03:32 And we just often overlook it.
0:03:35 How can I acknowledge the experience you’re having
0:03:36 and the fact that I acknowledged it
0:03:38 demonstrates that I respect it.
0:03:40 – I feel like there’s gonna be a lot of parenting parallels
0:03:42 here, have these conversations with the kids like,
0:03:46 hey, I feel, I understand you’re feeling very disappointed
0:03:49 right now, this isn’t what you wanted to have happen.
0:03:52 You see them as equals and not trying to talk down to kids.
0:03:53 – It’s a big deal.
0:03:55 I raised five children and when it was happening,
0:03:57 it took a real long time because the oldest one
0:03:59 and the youngest one, there’s 12 years between them.
0:04:02 So when you sign on for parenting at that duration,
0:04:04 you learn a few things.
0:04:05 – Sure, sure.
0:04:07 I’m trying to think of this in the framework of,
0:04:11 if I’m a video creator or a podcaster,
0:04:15 how to make the audience feel important and respected
0:04:18 and meeting people where they’re at.
0:04:20 I don’t know if you have any examples of language
0:04:21 that people would use there.
0:04:23 – We’re doing some stuff right now
0:04:25 that is gonna be video ads.
0:04:29 And that means that I am making the copy right now
0:04:31 and some number of months in the future,
0:04:34 sure the audience is gonna hear it, see it, feel it.
0:04:36 So I have to make sure to be timely
0:04:38 ’cause if I record it right now
0:04:40 and they see it at the end of January
0:04:42 and Christmas has come and gone,
0:04:44 I am not pacing their reality there
0:04:46 for not demonstrating that I respect.
0:04:49 But one thing I would try to minimize
0:04:53 is overtly saying I respect X.
0:04:55 Just in case you don’t have positional authority
0:04:58 in their lives just yet, they might not want to hear that.
0:04:59 Here’s a good example.
0:05:04 I just got an email from the guy who sold me my car years ago
0:05:07 and it’s paid for because that’s how I roll.
0:05:10 And he, in this email says, just wanted to reach out
0:05:12 to let you know that I’m interested
0:05:14 in buying your car from you.
0:05:16 That’s not pacing my reality.
0:05:19 It doesn’t respect the fact that I am the sort of person
0:05:23 who drives a car until it lays down on its last gas.
0:05:27 My last three cars, I drove over 200,000 miles each
0:05:29 and I told him that when I bought the car
0:05:32 that that’s why I was buying this particular car.
0:05:34 I will not be replying to that email.
0:05:37 I do not feel like he’s respecting my decision around that.
0:05:37 – All right, that’s fair.
0:05:38 So trying to, I like that.
0:05:41 Framing their reality or here’s where I see you
0:05:42 and sometimes you’re gonna miss.
0:05:43 But if you can’t hit it,
0:05:45 then all of a sudden you get people nodding along
0:05:48 and being like, “Oh yeah, that is where I’m at today.”
0:05:50 All right, buyer number two is the love me buyer
0:05:53 who is looking for love and appreciation.
0:05:54 Talk to me about this persona.
0:05:56 – That one I would say straight up.
0:05:58 It makes a big difference.
0:06:01 If you genuinely love and care for that person, say it.
0:06:02 Now, if you don’t know them,
0:06:05 then find something else that they care about
0:06:07 to say that you love and appreciate.
0:06:08 So it’s authentic.
0:06:11 So it would be weird if you said, “I love your dog.”
0:06:14 That’s a little weird if there’s no way that’s genuine,
0:06:17 but if you said we had a mutual passion,
0:06:18 like right now we’re doing a podcast.
0:06:20 And so we have a mutual care
0:06:23 for getting important messages out to into the world.
0:06:27 And so I can say, I really love that we’re doing this
0:06:29 and that resonates with you because it’s true for you
0:06:32 and therefore is true because what’s true for your audience
0:06:35 or whoever you’re speaking to is the truth in that moment.
0:06:36 And you just have to always be aware of that.
0:06:39 – To finding some common ground of something
0:06:41 that may not be, “I love your dog.”
0:06:42 But like, “Hey, we both love dogs.”
0:06:43 – Exactly.
0:06:45 – Okay, all right, anything else there?
0:06:47 – Certain niches do better than others.
0:06:49 Like if you’re in the personal development niche,
0:06:52 you are gonna find a lot of people that tend
0:06:55 towards this bias and hopefully you have a big heart anyway.
0:06:56 And so talk about it.
0:06:58 Other niches, not so much.
0:07:02 Like my son buys, he likes to build his own computers.
0:07:03 So he buys his own parts.
0:07:05 Imagine how weird an email would be that said,
0:07:07 “I just really love the X342
0:07:09 “and I think you’re gonna love it too.”
0:07:10 One 35-year-old man to another.
0:07:12 Like, “Why are we doing that?”
0:07:16 – Do I need to speak to every single one of these
0:07:20 or depending on the niche, depending on what I’m offering,
0:07:23 I imagine there’s gonna be more heavily weighted
0:07:25 in certain categories than others.
0:07:27 – Oh yeah, absolutely.
0:07:29 So there’s two answers to this.
0:07:33 The one answer is, no, pick the one that you think
0:07:36 is most representative of the niche that you’re in
0:07:36 and write to them.
0:07:38 The other answer is yes.
0:07:39 And here’s why.
0:07:43 I talked before about how we are holistic beings.
0:07:45 So here’s what happens.
0:07:48 You need all of these different kinds of emotional inputs
0:07:51 in order for it to feel right to you.
0:07:54 So I don’t mean it to be something like,
0:07:56 “Oh my gosh, I’m just sending out a hundred word email.
0:07:59 “There’s absolutely no way I can hit all nine
0:08:00 “of these types.
0:08:02 “What am I even doing?”
0:08:05 Yeah, how am I gonna check all these boxes at once?
0:08:07 – Right, but in that case,
0:08:10 I know of at least one person who did this thing
0:08:11 with a really great success.
0:08:14 So imagine this, you sold them the item
0:08:17 and now you really need them to use the item
0:08:20 because they can’t buy more unless they use it.
0:08:21 You sold them a supplement.
0:08:23 You sold them toothpaste, something.
0:08:26 All right, so now you need a consumption sequence.
0:08:28 So the first email, it’s a subtle move.
0:08:32 The first email says, “This is such an important decision
0:08:33 “that you have made to respect.
0:08:37 “And I am so glad that you did this.”
0:08:39 And so maybe read chapter one
0:08:42 or maybe take the vitamin for three days or something, right?
0:08:46 The next email says, “People are loving this thing
0:08:47 “that you just bought.
0:08:49 “Here’s some testimonials from people that loved it.
0:08:53 “If you love it too, feel free to hashtag us
0:08:55 “on social media and post your testimonial, whatever.”
0:09:00 And you can do a nine email consumption sequence
0:09:03 to keep people engaged because the first one
0:09:04 might not grab their attention,
0:09:06 but maybe the third one will.
0:09:08 So that’s a strategy I would use.
0:09:10 If you have some sort of a longer sequence,
0:09:13 focus on one of the buyer types in each sequence.
0:09:14 – Okay, I like this.
0:09:15 I like this.
0:09:18 I try to get people to experience the benefit
0:09:19 that they originally bought it for, right?
0:09:22 Like how do you take action, get that quick win
0:09:24 and feel some positive emotion
0:09:26 and some positive momentum towards the thing
0:09:29 and then hopefully gather testimonials
0:09:33 and leveraging other people’s testimonials to get the hate.
0:09:34 There’s safety in numbers here.
0:09:35 You’re not alone here.
0:09:37 It’s normal to post a testimonial
0:09:39 and help spread the word here.
0:09:43 That is the second buyer persona that loved me buyer.
0:09:46 Number three is the celebrate me buyer.
0:09:51 This is somebody who sees themself as self-confident
0:09:54 as competitive as a winner who wants to be celebrated.
0:09:57 What am I including in my marketing
0:10:00 to reach this person or to speak to them?
0:10:02 – This one is about status
0:10:03 and that’s not always a negative thing.
0:10:06 People wanna feel like they’re somebody.
0:10:10 And so anything in the copy that shows them
0:10:14 how they might look to themselves in the mirror
0:10:16 or to other people.
0:10:17 ‘Cause there’s all the whole,
0:10:19 we all wanna feel like we’re somebody.
0:10:23 So why not say millions of people have bought this thing?
0:10:25 It’ll work for you too.
0:10:27 And I just wanna really congratulate you
0:10:28 on making the right choice.
0:10:31 When was the last time you bought something
0:10:33 and on the confirmation page,
0:10:37 it didn’t say congratulations, you made the right choice.
0:10:38 That’s status language right there.
0:10:41 – Yeah, this was a shift that I made.
0:10:42 You know, a lot of the confirmation page
0:10:45 or like the thank you page, it would say thank you.
0:10:46 Like, hey, you’re doing me a favor.
0:10:49 So we shifted that language to congratulations.
0:10:51 Like it’s, now it’s you focused to say,
0:10:53 hey, you made the right call, there’s gonna be great.
0:10:56 Here’s the next step versus like, hey, thanks.
0:10:57 You know, you did me a solid.
0:10:59 It’s like, I mean, I do appreciate that,
0:11:01 but turning it back to the customer reader subscriber.
0:11:03 – Yeah, that’s a funny thing too.
0:11:04 It’s so tempting.
0:11:06 Welcome to our thing
0:11:09 because you worked so hard on your thing
0:11:10 and of course it’s good.
0:11:12 And of course you want people to have it
0:11:13 and to know that you appreciate them
0:11:15 for having bought the thing.
0:11:16 That is all normal.
0:11:19 But it comes off a little strange to the buyer
0:11:21 who is so wrapped up in their personal experience
0:11:22 as they should be.
0:11:24 We’re all marching through our own
0:11:25 little private journeys here.
0:11:28 And anything that cracks that dream
0:11:29 is a little bit confusing.
0:11:30 So it’s smart.
0:11:33 I’m congratulating you for having done this thing.
0:11:35 Even though you’ll see it on every page,
0:11:37 it’s not surprising language.
0:11:39 They’re looking forward to that familiarity.
0:11:41 – Somebody who I think does a good job of this
0:11:43 is Chandler Bolt at self publishing
0:11:46 where he would send out this nicely packaged,
0:11:50 welcome box to new students, new customers.
0:11:51 And the first thing you open it up,
0:11:53 there’s like a certificate that says,
0:11:54 congratulations, future author or something.
0:11:57 You just took the first step toward publishing your book
0:12:00 and it’s like, oh, it kind of reaffirms that buying decision.
0:12:01 Like, oh yeah, I made the right call.
0:12:03 Rebuild some of that self confidence
0:12:07 that may have waned a little bit in the two or three days
0:12:09 after hitting purchase until this box shows up.
0:12:11 – Yeah, it makes a huge difference,
0:12:13 especially if you sell a product
0:12:15 where people have to work to get the benefit.
0:12:16 – Yeah, it’s gonna take some effort.
0:12:18 Like, okay, I gotta keep and keep reaffirming that.
0:12:21 – Oh, you have to, if I buy a new shirt and it’s my color,
0:12:23 I put the shirt on, I’m a new woman.
0:12:25 But if I decide I’m gonna write a book,
0:12:27 I have to convince myself it’s a good idea.
0:12:28 I have to convince my partner it’s a good idea.
0:12:30 I have to convince the kids not to bother me
0:12:31 ’cause mommy’s writing a book
0:12:33 and the doubt that you go through
0:12:36 anytime you’re bringing something into the world
0:12:37 is a normal part of the experience.
0:12:39 So they’re gonna have to feel that
0:12:41 but they don’t have to feel it alone.
0:12:45 And to have that ignored is just also scary too
0:12:46 ’cause then it makes it seem,
0:12:48 oh, maybe there’s something wrong with me as a person
0:12:50 and there’s not, you’re just doing the work
0:12:52 of bringing something into reality.
0:12:54 – That’s number three, the celebrate me buyer.
0:12:56 Number four is the support me buyer.
0:12:59 And that’s coming up right after this.
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0:15:15 – Buyer number four is the support me buyer worried about,
0:15:17 what does that mean, support me?
0:15:19 Just like am I, is somebody gonna hold my hand
0:15:20 through this, am I gonna be able to do this?
0:15:21 What are they thinking?
0:15:24 – Yeah, you want the person to feel fully empowered
0:15:27 if you have any questions, reach out.
0:15:29 This is why their guarantee is so important.
0:15:33 Needs to be as generous as it reasonably can be
0:15:35 so that the person feels like there’s a chance
0:15:37 they’re gonna be successful at this thing
0:15:38 because otherwise they’re not gonna go with it.
0:15:41 Especially if it’s a significant purchase,
0:15:44 if it’s a spur of the moment, small dollar item,
0:15:45 they’re not expecting a ton of support
0:15:47 but if you sold a high ticket item,
0:15:49 they have to feel like you’re gonna be there,
0:15:51 you’re not gonna smother them,
0:15:54 you trust them to be independent and have their own journey
0:15:56 but if they need you at all, you’re right there.
0:15:58 Here’s our email, here’s our website,
0:16:01 here’s our phone number, here’s more resources,
0:16:05 here’s the textbook, our FAQ is on point, all of it.
0:16:08 – Okay, okay, yeah, I’m thinking about,
0:16:11 I mean, I’m the person who checks that return policy,
0:16:13 exchange policy, what’s the guarantee?
0:16:15 Like what, it’s like the risk reversal type of thing.
0:16:17 Like what if this doesn’t work out for me?
0:16:19 So I guess I could raise my hand,
0:16:23 like not necessarily the fully support me type of person.
0:16:25 Like, yeah, I can figure it out on my own.
0:16:27 Just in case, I wanna make sure
0:16:30 that I’m gonna be able to get out of this
0:16:31 if it doesn’t end up working.
0:16:32 – Absolutely.
0:16:34 – And even booking hotels now, which is super annoying
0:16:35 ’cause now it’s like, here’s the price,
0:16:37 book now, pay now, no cancellation.
0:16:39 And then it’s like, well, here’s the higher price
0:16:40 if you wanna be able to cancel later.
0:16:42 You’re like, ah, I don’t know,
0:16:44 you could never make plans anymore, I’m not really sure.
0:16:46 It’s like, you see this all the time
0:16:49 and it’s like, okay, which one appeals to which buyer?
0:16:51 – Absolutely, I saw this thing recently.
0:16:53 I like to go to the Highland Games in my state.
0:16:56 – Oh, this is like a telephone pole flipping,
0:16:57 like Scottish games type of stuff?
0:17:00 – Yes, men in kilts throwing boulders.
0:17:00 – Yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:17:03 – It’s a whole thing, it’s a whole weekend event.
0:17:05 I absolutely love to go, I go every year.
0:17:07 And this time around, when I bought the ticket,
0:17:09 not only had they doubled the price,
0:17:12 but below each ticket was small print in a box,
0:17:15 you normally click yes, just out of reflex.
0:17:18 And it says, do you wanna ensure this ticket?
0:17:20 It’ll be $3.
0:17:21 I start to notice something’s going wrong
0:17:25 when I realized that checkbox is below every single ticket
0:17:27 and I had bought a bunch of them.
0:17:30 And the fine print says, this is not insurance
0:17:33 in case you decide you don’t wanna come.
0:17:36 This is insurance in a situation where we,
0:17:38 as the organizers of the event,
0:17:40 decide to cancel the event.
0:17:41 – Wow, okay.
0:17:43 – Right, and I did not feel
0:17:45 that that was supportive behavior.
0:17:47 It kind of seemed like a money grab.
0:17:49 So I didn’t check the box.
0:17:51 – Yeah, I gotta roll the dice, gotta take that risk.
0:17:52 – Yeah, yeah.
0:17:56 – What we see commonly in like the online course community,
0:18:00 the support me component is, well, you have,
0:18:02 there’s office hours.
0:18:05 You can ask, sometimes you have live texting,
0:18:08 access 24/7, shoot me a question.
0:18:11 You see, here’s our free Facebook group community.
0:18:13 So you kind of see these different elements
0:18:17 that people layer on for that additional support.
0:18:19 Maybe it’s live chat, maybe it’s over the phone,
0:18:23 maybe it’s email, but some level of ongoing support.
0:18:25 If you need us, we’re gonna be here for you.
0:18:26 – Absolutely.
0:18:29 Number five is the teach me buyer.
0:18:31 And I mean, sometimes I’m in this camp,
0:18:32 but a lot of times lately it’s like,
0:18:34 I just want it done for me.
0:18:36 I don’t know, I don’t necessarily care how you do it,
0:18:37 but just, can you just do it for me?
0:18:39 – I love a magic pill as much as anybody.
0:18:41 I’m not really a potion buyer,
0:18:43 but I’m very much a magic pill buyer.
0:18:45 But this person don’t necessarily think
0:18:47 about long copy for this,
0:18:52 but think about the features and the unique mechanisms.
0:18:54 So there is a group of people
0:18:57 that very much wants to know how it works,
0:19:00 and then that is why it’s gonna work for them.
0:19:02 And so that’s the unique mechanism part.
0:19:05 But there’s also a group of people that will tell you
0:19:07 they only want to know what’s in the box.
0:19:10 It’s got this many bolts, they’re this size,
0:19:15 it’s got a lever that goes up down, it’s red.
0:19:18 Those kinds of things really matter.
0:19:20 And I am not the spy.
0:19:22 So this one’s harder for me,
0:19:26 but I always try to match up my unique mechanism
0:19:30 and my features with some sort of emotional driven benefit.
0:19:32 And that’s how I make this one work.
0:19:35 So the fact that the bolts that there are three of them
0:19:36 and that they are a certain size
0:19:40 means that you can grip them easily.
0:19:44 It means that if you lose one, you will always have a spare.
0:19:47 Always saying what it means to the other person
0:19:49 as you are teaching them.
0:19:53 So it’s not just sometimes you can sell a done with you
0:19:54 or a DIY kind of stuff.
0:19:56 So that naturally fits into this.
0:19:58 But no matter what you’re selling,
0:20:00 they’re gonna wanna know a little bit about it
0:20:01 for their own curiosity.
0:20:04 But also if they ever have to explain this to anybody else,
0:20:06 in case someone sees that credit card bill
0:20:08 and they’re like, what did you buy?
0:20:09 Why did you buy it?
0:20:10 Do we need this, whatever it is,
0:20:13 more than we need groceries and rent?
0:20:14 So they need to be able to back it up.
0:20:18 – Okay, so this is the person who wants to see
0:20:21 like that full list of features or what’s included
0:20:23 and is like a detail oriented person.
0:20:26 Well, there’s 12 hours of video content.
0:20:29 There’s this community based support group.
0:20:30 So you can get all your questions answered.
0:20:33 We’re trying to match that to some emotional benefit
0:20:37 where you can, so you can see this result that you want.
0:20:38 So you can achieve the desired outcome.
0:20:40 Like we’re gonna tell you what the thing is,
0:20:42 but we’re also gonna tell you why it’s in there,
0:20:43 like why it’s important.
0:20:45 – Exactly, this is where you would also put,
0:20:47 these are all categories of proof ultimately,
0:20:50 but this is heavily on the demonstration proof.
0:20:53 98% saw success with it.
0:20:56 We did independent studies with it
0:20:59 and the magic ingredient worked 100% of the time.
0:21:01 Like whatever you’ve got, put it in there.
0:21:04 – Oh, okay, some sort of evidence based.
0:21:05 – Yeah.
0:21:06 – Now that appeals to me more,
0:21:09 like, you know, that level of scientific rigor
0:21:11 to the extent that that exists.
0:21:14 To say, so this has been proven time and time again,
0:21:16 like it’s a foolproof system.
0:21:17 Like if they could do it, you could do it,
0:21:19 like that definitely does appeal for me.
0:21:21 – Exactly, and isn’t that funny?
0:21:23 So this one’s really interesting
0:21:26 because it sounds so straightforward and logical,
0:21:28 but for someone who cares about that,
0:21:31 there is like a bodily sensation.
0:21:34 There’s almost like a relief that comes with it.
0:21:36 I’m like, oh, there’s science.
0:21:38 Somebody took the time to think about it.
0:21:40 That feels right to me.
0:21:43 So some of the sales strategies
0:21:47 and the copywriting strategies are about fear and greed
0:21:50 and about how maybe like building the gap,
0:21:51 which I also think is a good idea.
0:21:54 Like you should be able to show people where they are
0:21:55 and where they wanna be and help them bridge the gap.
0:22:00 But this sensation of something being right uniquely for me
0:22:02 is a very specific thing
0:22:04 that I think doesn’t get talked about enough.
0:22:07 And the nine buyer system specifically addresses that.
0:22:09 – Yeah, I like how we’re not talking anything yet
0:22:13 about scarcity and fear tactics or anything like this.
0:22:15 Like, no, no, no, how do we convince you on the positive side
0:22:16 that this is the right decision for you
0:22:18 or this is the place where you belong?
0:22:19 That’s number five, that teach me buyer,
0:22:22 the logical proof evidence, you know,
0:22:25 combat their feeling of being overwhelmed
0:22:28 with what’s inside, here’s why that helps you.
0:22:32 Number six, we have is the reassure me buyer.
0:22:33 This seems like warm and fuzzy,
0:22:36 like I’m looking for making sure I made the safe choice
0:22:37 or the right choice.
0:22:40 – This one’s very warm and fuzzy and lay it on thick.
0:22:41 Don’t be shy about this one at all,
0:22:44 especially if you’re more of a logic-based person,
0:22:46 you’re like, oh my gosh, I just laid out all my proof.
0:22:47 I have a unique mechanism.
0:22:50 This is undeniably the right choice.
0:22:52 What do you mean you want me to straight up
0:22:54 tell people it’s gonna be fine,
0:22:56 but you need to mention it at least once.
0:22:59 They need to know that you have thought about it
0:23:00 and that it’s fine and that you care.
0:23:02 – Is there a specific phrase or language
0:23:03 that you would use here?
0:23:06 – I go as straight forward with all of this
0:23:11 as I possibly can, but sometimes I will put in,
0:23:13 you know that frame that goes,
0:23:17 I felt that way at first myself, but then I discovered.
0:23:18 – Yeah, feel felt found.
0:23:21 – Yes, use it, ’cause it works really great.
0:23:24 And I find that people will even repeat back
0:23:26 some of this stuff to me later
0:23:28 and not realize that’s what they’re doing.
0:23:31 But because it’s so relatable,
0:23:35 it’s normal for you to have a fear, a worry,
0:23:36 some shred of doubt,
0:23:39 and then to have an experience that changed your mind.
0:23:43 So that is a relatable story, it’s a very human story,
0:23:46 and you can’t really overuse that framework.
0:23:48 – Okay, this has got to be for a certain brand.
0:23:52 I’m thinking of like a real tough, masculine,
0:23:53 Spartan race type of brand.
0:23:55 It’s like probably not gonna need to include
0:23:58 something like this, like people are not looking
0:24:00 for belonging and safety aside from they go,
0:24:01 okay, there’s a big group of people
0:24:03 that are gonna go through this pain and suffering with me.
0:24:05 But this feel felt found framework.
0:24:07 This was taught in like sales training,
0:24:08 overcoming objections.
0:24:13 They say, I understand you’re feeling this certain objection
0:24:15 or you have this fear over hitting by,
0:24:17 in fact, when I was starting out, I felt the same way.
0:24:19 And here’s ultimately what we found
0:24:20 or what we found from dealing
0:24:21 with hundreds of customers at this point.
0:24:23 It’s kind of like walking through,
0:24:25 here’s why your concern is valid.
0:24:27 And here’s what we’ve done to address that concern
0:24:30 and still get people the positive result reassuring.
0:24:35 – There is also this concept of a safety and excitement scale
0:24:37 because everything’s on a spectrum.
0:24:40 And so if you have a really tough brand like that,
0:24:41 you’re gonna do a race,
0:24:43 everybody’s gonna go together
0:24:47 and you are gonna test yourself to the absolute limits.
0:24:50 Well, if I believe that I am some tough guy
0:24:52 and I’ve done all these things before,
0:24:54 how do I know that this is gonna be worth it?
0:24:56 Is it gonna be as extreme as you promised?
0:24:59 Am I gonna get as muddy as you promised?
0:25:01 Am I gonna test my ultimate, ultimate limits?
0:25:05 Even someone like me who’s bad to the bone, are you sure?
0:25:08 So you can reassure them by showing pictures
0:25:10 and video clips of other people who did the event
0:25:12 and came out just absolutely plastered
0:25:14 and mud and grinning from ear to ear
0:25:16 ’cause that’s the outcome they’re looking for.
0:25:18 So how can you show them that they’re gonna get the outcome
0:25:19 that they’re imagining?
0:25:20 It’s not just your words,
0:25:23 it’s everything else that you’re doing in your marketing
0:25:25 to show they’ll get the outcome that you promised.
0:25:26 – Okay, and if you can include
0:25:30 some sort of visual cues here, I think that may be helpful.
0:25:32 – Yeah, oh, so that’s another really important thing
0:25:34 is I’m a writer, I like words.
0:25:37 And often, as hard as this is for me,
0:25:40 words are not the best way to get across the ideas.
0:25:42 So what I do is I write a lot of words
0:25:44 and then I give them to other people
0:25:46 who are in other departments
0:25:49 and they turn the words into visuals.
0:25:51 And maybe there’s a color theme
0:25:52 and maybe there’s a video
0:25:54 and maybe there’s some sort of sound.
0:25:56 And then I can go back to the copy
0:25:58 and cut half or even more of it
0:26:01 because the ideas have made it in
0:26:03 without the use of words.
0:26:06 – Is there an element here of safety in numbers
0:26:09 where if you have been doing a thing for a while,
0:26:11 you’d be like, “Hey, hundreds of happy customers,
0:26:13 “can’t be wrong or we’ve already got a community
0:26:16 “of 1,000 people, come on in, the water’s warm.”
0:26:18 Like this feeling of belonging and safety
0:26:21 rather than somebody kind of sticking their neck out
0:26:23 for the first time and it feels like really vulnerable.
0:26:26 – There are people who like to be first timers.
0:26:29 I like to be in the first wave of a thing.
0:26:30 So if I take a course,
0:26:33 I want it to be someone who’s doing it
0:26:35 for the first or second time.
0:26:37 – And you want to be that beta tester crowd.
0:26:39 – But that’s just me.
0:26:42 And other people want it when all the kinks are smoothed out,
0:26:44 when the worksheets are beautiful,
0:26:46 when the community’s active and flowing
0:26:48 and they want all of that.
0:26:51 And so what you need to do is pick the person
0:26:54 that you like working with the most.
0:26:57 If you want somebody who is going to come
0:26:58 into an existing community
0:27:00 and help it continue to grow and be stable,
0:27:02 that’s the person you talk to.
0:27:04 If you want somebody who’s going to be
0:27:06 in the rough and tumble with you
0:27:07 and they don’t care about a worksheet
0:27:10 and you’re just trying to beta test this thing,
0:27:12 then you speak to that person.
0:27:14 So that one is a choice that you get to make.
0:27:16 – Okay, and you can tell it either way,
0:27:17 like, “Hey, it’s early. I need feedback.
0:27:19 You’re going to work directly with me.”
0:27:21 Like there’s different ways that you could spend that.
0:27:22 So that’s your number six,
0:27:25 the reassure me persona by a persona.
0:27:27 Number seven is the entertain me person.
0:27:29 This is like, I’m picturing like orange
0:27:31 on some of these personality tests,
0:27:35 like optimistic, happy, fun-loving, adventurous type of person.
0:27:38 What is the effective in speaking to these people?
0:27:41 – Okay, so I like to try to make things fun,
0:27:44 but I am not the most fun.
0:27:46 My friends are very fun.
0:27:49 You give them an opportunity at a stage
0:27:51 and they are making it happen.
0:27:54 So I like to dance and I’ve been on dance teams for years
0:27:58 that I am far from the best performer on the team.
0:28:00 That’s all of my other teammates.
0:28:01 They’re in the front row.
0:28:03 If they forget the choreo, it doesn’t matter.
0:28:05 It’s all personality.
0:28:09 And there’s so many people that want to have that experience.
0:28:13 Even if they’re not the entertainer on the stage,
0:28:15 they either want to think of themselves like that
0:28:18 or they’re just stomping through life, a dreary, boring.
0:28:20 A lot of us are sleepwalking through life.
0:28:22 And if you see a cat video,
0:28:25 sometimes that’s enough to make your day.
0:28:28 And so if you have that in your personality
0:28:29 as the business owner
0:28:31 and you’re willing to infuse a little bit of that
0:28:32 in your copy,
0:28:34 of course not every brand lends itself to that.
0:28:38 But for example, my son writes for SAS.
0:28:40 Software is a service you don’t think of
0:28:42 as an entertaining thing.
0:28:44 But he does posts for them on LinkedIn
0:28:46 that have a little bit of wit.
0:28:50 Not all the way up to humor, not slap your knee funny,
0:28:53 but just a little bit of lightness to them.
0:28:55 And that’s enough to set that company apart
0:28:57 because nobody else in the industry is doing that.
0:28:59 So you don’t have to go super extreme with it,
0:29:02 but just a touch of showing that you’re human
0:29:05 and that it would be worth it to stop the scroll
0:29:07 and to read that little bit of what you have to say.
0:29:08 – Got it, got it.
0:29:09 And you see this on YouTube all the time
0:29:11 with like a pattern interrupt
0:29:14 where it’s just kind of like, it breaks you out of that.
0:29:16 You know, whatever the thing is, it’s like, oh, you know,
0:29:18 kind of re-engages your attention.
0:29:20 You see it in emails,
0:29:23 people putting in gifts or meme breaks in their emails,
0:29:27 just to break it up and show a little bit of your personality.
0:29:28 And I don’t know, I think that’s a lot of fun
0:29:33 and kind of helps people relate to the creator as a person.
0:29:34 – Yep, another interesting thing
0:29:38 about this entire concept is all nine types.
0:29:40 We know all the regular sales techniques.
0:29:42 There’ve been many books written on them
0:29:43 and whether you prefer one or the other,
0:29:45 we know a lot of that stuff works.
0:29:48 And part of that is what we talked about for,
0:29:52 painting a picture, a gap, a little bit of the pain.
0:29:56 And the question becomes, you painted a dream,
0:30:01 you widened the gap, but why or why not, why did they buy?
0:30:05 It’s really such an interesting question.
0:30:07 And so these kinds of things
0:30:10 could be the thing that tips them over.
0:30:13 So if I show up and I do a little song and dance for you,
0:30:16 does that mean you’re gonna buy my vitamins?
0:30:17 No, that’s ridiculous.
0:30:20 But if you set up everything else,
0:30:22 you showed me the proof,
0:30:25 you demonstrated that it will give me the outcome I want.
0:30:27 It’s reasonably priced, it’s guaranteed,
0:30:29 the support is there if you need it.
0:30:32 And by the way, we are the humorous brand
0:30:34 that stopped your scroll.
0:30:36 That for this kind of buyer, that might be just enough.
0:30:38 – Yeah, I’m trying to think of some examples,
0:30:41 like probably like me undies is like a playful example,
0:30:43 like all their branding is cutesy
0:30:45 and double entendre and stuff.
0:30:47 There’s probably other examples of other brands
0:30:50 that kind of, where there’s a clear personality
0:30:51 around it behind it.
0:30:53 Even like look at it with like Wendy’s on Twitter,
0:30:54 where they’re just like constantly trolling
0:30:55 other fast food chains.
0:30:57 And it’s just makes people more feel
0:30:58 a greater affinity towards that brand.
0:31:00 – Yeah, ’cause what are they really selling?
0:31:03 Fast food hamburgers, like what’s interesting about that?
0:31:07 But they went out of their way to make it more engaging.
0:31:08 – Very good, all right, that’s the entertain me buyer.
0:31:09 I really like that one.
0:31:11 And I think people can have some fun with that.
0:31:14 Number eight is the empower person persona.
0:31:15 What’s up with them?
0:31:16 – This person wants control.
0:31:20 And so maybe I don’t wanna have to email customer service
0:31:21 to get the thing refunded.
0:31:23 Maybe I just wanna go to the website myself,
0:31:26 click the button and have it magically happen.
0:31:27 You were talking about hotels.
0:31:29 Okay, well, maybe I don’t wanna have to call
0:31:32 the reservation center again and be on hold
0:31:33 for who knows how many hours.
0:31:35 Maybe I just wanna be able to go
0:31:37 and take care of that myself.
0:31:40 – Yeah, I was canceling a service recently
0:31:41 and it was like, you need to, you know,
0:31:43 here’s the Calendly link to set up a cancellation call.
0:31:44 Like, are you kidding me?
0:31:45 Are you kidding me?
0:31:46 Like, I just wanna click the button.
0:31:49 And I was like, you’re just totally reaffirmed
0:31:50 by position.
0:31:51 It’s like, I do not wanna do business with you anymore.
0:31:53 It’s like, yeah, I wanna be in control.
0:31:55 And so the language could be around,
0:31:57 hey, this is a self-driven kind of thing.
0:31:59 You can have access 24/7.
0:32:01 Is that how you would kind of frame it?
0:32:03 – So the ability to change your own flights
0:32:05 without having to wait on hold, to cancel a hotel,
0:32:08 to get a refund, all of that is really important.
0:32:09 And to just communicate to people
0:32:12 that they have that ability, that they are not helpless,
0:32:15 that they are not alone, that they,
0:32:18 it is in some ways the opposite of support.
0:32:20 And in some ways it’s very much like support
0:32:22 because the ability to do things on your own
0:32:25 does feel supportive in that specific way.
0:32:29 So sometimes people just want to be able to do it themselves.
0:32:30 – Got it, okay.
0:32:31 And so I’m speaking to that person.
0:32:33 Hey, you can do it.
0:32:34 We’re here to help if you need something,
0:32:36 but you’re in the driver’s seat here.
0:32:37 – Yeah, that’s really interesting too.
0:32:39 ‘Cause we were talking earlier about things,
0:32:41 that products where you have to do the work
0:32:42 to get the outcome.
0:32:45 And so you say, we’re here for you,
0:32:47 we’ve got a community, everything you need,
0:32:48 and oh, by the way, here’s every tool,
0:32:50 here’s every worksheet, you are in the driver’s seat.
0:32:53 So now you’ve got both sides.
0:32:55 So you are talking to either two different people
0:32:57 or you are talking to both sides
0:32:59 of that person’s deep seated worry.
0:33:00 And they might never tell you
0:33:01 that’s what they’re worried about.
0:33:03 So it’s good to just casually mention it.
0:33:07 – I find a lot of people almost in the permission seeking
0:33:08 persona, if I don’t know which category
0:33:10 that would fall under.
0:33:13 – That’s probably closest to this one, yeah.
0:33:16 – They want some level of somebody else to say,
0:33:18 it’s okay to go do that thing,
0:33:21 to start that business, to begin this workout program,
0:33:24 to do whatever, it’s to buy this product.
0:33:26 Am I allowed to do that?
0:33:27 Am I gonna fail?
0:33:28 Like, there’s this fear of failure,
0:33:30 there’s this fear of like, well, I’ve never done it before.
0:33:34 So who, am I gonna be okay to do that?
0:33:37 And I kind of felt that same way, like quitting my job,
0:33:40 my one lowly corporate job, like, is this allowed?
0:33:42 Like, this is what I went to school to do,
0:33:42 this is what you’re supposed to do.
0:33:44 I followed the path and like,
0:33:47 there was still this moment of fear and anxiety over,
0:33:49 like, can I really cut my own paycheck?
0:33:51 Like, sure, it’s been working,
0:33:52 but is it gonna continue to work?
0:33:55 And like, you know, nobody was really there
0:33:57 to push that empowerment button and say,
0:34:00 okay, now you’re in charge here.
0:34:04 – Yeah, people wonder, can I empower other people
0:34:05 in that way?
0:34:07 Am I disrespecting the fact that they’re adults
0:34:08 by doing that?
0:34:10 And the answer is, just go ahead and say it,
0:34:13 because there are times in our lives
0:34:16 when we just need someone to say, it’s okay, you’ve got this,
0:34:19 I trust you, I believe in you, you can do this.
0:34:22 And it might seem a little weird
0:34:23 ’cause you don’t know that person.
0:34:24 I’m gonna write in an email,
0:34:27 you have full power to do this thing,
0:34:28 but yes, just go ahead and put it in there.
0:34:30 Someone is gonna need to hear that.
0:34:32 – Yeah, that’s what we’re trying to do
0:34:34 with the show, empower people to go out and make extra money.
0:34:35 So this is a really important one
0:34:39 if you’re trying to instill some kind of behavioral change,
0:34:41 some kind of lifestyle change.
0:34:45 Number nine is this invite me buyer who is, you know,
0:34:47 maybe I relate to this person as well.
0:34:49 They’re kind of like more methodical
0:34:50 in their decision making, perhaps like,
0:34:51 ah, I’m gonna think of this,
0:34:52 like the, I wanna think about it person.
0:34:54 – This one I struggled with quite a bit
0:34:56 because it is so on the nose.
0:34:59 If you thought the other ones were clear and simple,
0:35:03 this one’s crazy, you have to let people know
0:35:05 that you’re throwing a party on Thursday night
0:35:08 and it would mean a lot to you if they would come.
0:35:10 Please come, you have to say it
0:35:12 because people won’t figure that out on their own.
0:35:15 Everybody thinks they were imposing, even if it’s money.
0:35:18 Like, I’m going to sell you this cheesecake.
0:35:20 I own a bakery, I’m gonna sell you this cheesecake.
0:35:23 Like, I don’t know, maybe it was a special order.
0:35:26 Maybe it’s not for me, maybe it’s the display model.
0:35:29 You have to tell people, please come, please buy.
0:35:31 And you have to say it in multiple places too.
0:35:34 You might say it at the top of your sales
0:35:35 that if you have one of those leads
0:35:38 that’s like horse for sale,
0:35:39 which happens sometimes you just have
0:35:41 to straight up sell things.
0:35:42 And then you’ll say it in your conclusion,
0:35:44 you’re like, hey, and there’s no risk
0:35:47 and you get two for one and goodbye now.
0:35:49 And then you’re gonna need to say it on the button copy.
0:35:50 You’re probably gonna have to say it
0:35:51 on your confirmation page.
0:35:55 You just bought to make sure people are very clear
0:35:58 that they are invited to do whatever it is.
0:36:00 – Interesting, yeah, it may seem obvious to you
0:36:02 but it might not be obvious to the buyer.
0:36:06 And this is where you may have some heat map testing
0:36:08 or even like recorded, there’s some services
0:36:09 where you can get a screen recording
0:36:11 of different users on the page.
0:36:14 Like to see where the confusion may set in.
0:36:16 But I think this is really interesting.
0:36:18 I’ll get comments on blog posts.
0:36:19 Like, we’ll do a product review.
0:36:20 Well, how do I sign up?
0:36:21 And you’re like, really?
0:36:23 There was like 17 links in the article.
0:36:25 Like you could click any of the sign up.
0:36:26 It’s like, did you try?
0:36:29 It’s really, really interesting to see.
0:36:31 – Okay, maybe we didn’t make it obvious enough.
0:36:33 If we needed a bigger button or something.
0:36:35 – Yeah, a lot of times I think,
0:36:37 ’cause I’m in my own stuff so much.
0:36:38 And so I think I’ve been clear.
0:36:40 And sometimes I even wonder,
0:36:43 some of my links say, click here to do X.
0:36:45 I’m like, do I really need to tell people
0:36:46 to click here to do X?
0:36:48 And the answer is, yeah, at least once.
0:36:50 So I’m thinking of a certain set of emails
0:36:53 that I have go out and the pattern is always two links.
0:36:58 And the one hot links, some sort of phrase or a benefit
0:37:00 or something that I think has some sort of emotional appeal
0:37:01 or fits one of these types.
0:37:05 And the second link is always click here to get X outcome
0:37:07 because they won’t know otherwise.
0:37:09 – Yeah, one of the really interesting things
0:37:11 that we did a few years ago was
0:37:13 for years, none of the links were underlined on the site
0:37:16 ’cause I thought it just, for aesthetics.
0:37:19 – It’s passe, underlining, it’s come and gone.
0:37:22 – Yeah, to have like a, it’s a different color.
0:37:23 Like people will know that’s a link, right?
0:37:24 It’s like, well, when we swapped out,
0:37:26 why don’t we just test it, right?
0:37:27 And we tested underlining them.
0:37:28 And like all of a sudden, you know,
0:37:30 the clicks went up 20% or something.
0:37:32 Like affiliate earnings went up some percent
0:37:34 and they’re like, I, really, dang.
0:37:37 You know, this costs thousands of dollars.
0:37:39 I should have done this years and years ago,
0:37:41 but making it, making it obvious.
0:37:44 Now, what can you do for that person
0:37:47 who is on the fence that’s slow to decide,
0:37:50 I need to think about it, like that,
0:37:51 they really want to be invited.
0:37:54 Like, is there some sort of followup or reassurance?
0:37:55 Or, you know, how do you get them over the fence?
0:37:58 – That’s where a card abandonment works really great.
0:38:00 And again, you could do an early long sequence.
0:38:03 You could do nine emails and use this for a card abandonment.
0:38:06 But I would flip it and do the ninth one first.
0:38:08 And it would be, I saw that you left that sweater
0:38:11 in your cart, here’s a 20% off coupon if you want it.
0:38:13 And then you could do like a testimonial
0:38:15 where someone says, oh, I just love X brand
0:38:18 of family apparel, they’re the best one.
0:38:22 You can do all of this in demonstration in the bottom.
0:38:24 And then you can send a couple more followups
0:38:26 because usually card abandonment sequences
0:38:27 are, they’re not that great.
0:38:29 If they have one at all, they’re not that special.
0:38:32 And so this would be a good way to boost those a little bit.
0:38:33 – Oh, okay.
0:38:37 I’m thinking, I guess if you are promoting a course
0:38:39 through an email sequence and somebody hit the landing page
0:38:43 but they didn’t buy, maybe you’re able to re-target them
0:38:45 through email at a certain point, you could tag them.
0:38:46 Like, hey, they hit the thing,
0:38:48 but they didn’t get the, you know, buyer tag,
0:38:52 ultimately come back with them with a specific question.
0:38:54 Hey, we noticed you didn’t buy.
0:38:55 It’s still available if you want it.
0:38:57 Hey, maybe here’s a limited time discount.
0:39:01 I think all that is some interesting things that you can do.
0:39:03 And you see it on social where it’s just like trying
0:39:06 to breathe life, especially if it’s an evergreen offer,
0:39:09 like trying to breathe new life into this thing.
0:39:11 Like, hey, maybe you’re new here.
0:39:12 This is what I do.
0:39:13 You’re welcome on the inside.
0:39:16 You’re invited, making it really obvious
0:39:17 how people can do business with you.
0:39:18 – Exactly.
0:39:19 That’s another good point that you make
0:39:22 is that if you have a really big campaign
0:39:25 and you’ve sent a whole bunch of promotional emails
0:39:27 that said, the headline was,
0:39:31 our USP is, and oh, by the way, we’re the best,
0:39:33 and you will get this outcome.
0:39:34 And that’s your headline and your promise.
0:39:36 You sent it over and over and over again.
0:39:38 Well, by the time you get to the end of the funnel,
0:39:41 what are you gonna say that’s new for the tire kickers?
0:39:44 And then in comes these nine ideas.
0:39:46 Like, a new idea is we love our customers
0:39:48 more than anybody else.
0:39:50 We make sure to invite you multiple times.
0:39:51 We have fantastic guarantee.
0:39:55 All of these things are ways to refresh that big idea
0:39:57 that you’ve been trying to get across all this time.
0:39:58 – Okay.
0:40:00 All right, those were the nine buyer personas.
0:40:02 Of course, we’ll have details on all of those
0:40:04 at the show notes for this episode.
0:40:07 And we’ll be right back with Melanie in just a moment,
0:40:09 including Donate a Business Idea.
0:40:11 Coming up right after this.
0:40:13 All right, we’re back with Melanie
0:40:15 from ninebuyersystem.com.
0:40:18 For round two, this is the Donate a Business Idea round.
0:40:20 This could be something that you would start yourself.
0:40:21 If you had more hours,
0:40:24 this is something that you see listeners could run with.
0:40:26 This is something that auto exists in the world.
0:40:28 We’ll tee it up like that and let you go.
0:40:31 – If I had more hours in the day,
0:40:32 I would do a knitting site.
0:40:33 I loved a knit.
0:40:36 I don’t think there’s a lot of free videos
0:40:37 that are out there on YouTube,
0:40:39 which is something I go back and forth.
0:40:41 I’m like, is there really a marketplace for this?
0:40:43 But I think there is.
0:40:45 If you tied it to community,
0:40:49 and if you did some sort of an of the month club around it,
0:40:52 and if you tied it to something else,
0:40:54 ’cause think about knitting
0:40:57 when you are a family member’s having a baby.
0:40:59 That’s a specific kind of club.
0:41:01 Maybe you do bibs or booties or something.
0:41:03 Or if you do a knitting swap,
0:41:05 you could do your little piece of it.
0:41:06 I used to do this with quilting.
0:41:08 You would do your square,
0:41:10 and then you would send your square
0:41:11 plus some scraps of the fabric
0:41:13 to the next person in your chain.
0:41:15 And then by the end you got back 12 squares,
0:41:17 and you had a finished item.
0:41:18 – Oh, okay, so it would like rotate.
0:41:20 Everybody would do, okay, got it, got it, got it.
0:41:23 – Yes, so it took one month to do it,
0:41:24 but everybody did one piece,
0:41:27 and then sent it to everybody else.
0:41:30 Such a fun way to learn from other people
0:41:31 and see how they go about this craft form
0:41:33 that you all care about so much.
0:41:34 And if it was tied with,
0:41:36 we bring in like coffee clubs do this.
0:41:39 We pair with special growers in Peru,
0:41:42 and we have a special roaster in wherever.
0:41:44 And it’s women only, and it’s part of a co-op.
0:41:46 And so there’s a lot of fun things
0:41:47 I think you could do around that.
0:41:49 – Yeah, this is an interesting one.
0:41:51 So less on the knitting education side,
0:41:53 we’re gonna assume you already know how to knit,
0:41:55 but we’re gonna build a community element of other people.
0:41:58 There might not be enough knitters in your hometown,
0:42:00 but you might want to interact with them
0:42:03 on a national or international level.
0:42:06 Maybe it was Shane Sams who had somebody in his community
0:42:09 who was doing like a murder mystery quilting membership
0:42:13 or something where every month, that’s so cool.
0:42:14 You would build, you do the pattern
0:42:17 and slowly the plot would evolve.
0:42:18 It sounds really familiar.
0:42:21 It sounds like maybe this could be something similar here.
0:42:23 – I love that for people.
0:42:24 There is a certain audience.
0:42:26 I research obscure things,
0:42:30 but for fiction, there is a breakpoint
0:42:34 where women stop reading so heavily on the romance side
0:42:37 and they start reading on the mystery side.
0:42:39 It might have a little bit of an element of romance to it,
0:42:42 but the mystery is the primary driver.
0:42:44 And if you think about stage of life
0:42:46 when you tend to have disposable income
0:42:48 and you tend to have a little more time on your hands
0:42:50 that you could take up a hobby like knitting,
0:42:52 which is not an inexpensive hobby.
0:42:54 And then you tie that to what you know
0:42:56 that they tend to buy for books.
0:42:58 It makes a lot of sense that there would be a handicraft
0:43:00 in your case you were mentioning quilting,
0:43:02 which is also not an inexpensive hobby,
0:43:06 tied to mystery novels, not tied to history,
0:43:09 not tied to biographies, not tied to coming of age romance,
0:43:12 but specifically tied to mysteries.
0:43:15 That makes a lot of sense for that demographic.
0:43:17 – Yeah, this concentric circles of mystery lovers
0:43:20 plus knitters and that little overlap in the middle
0:43:23 where it’s like, dang, this is a no brainer.
0:43:24 This must be the thing for me
0:43:26 because it checks both of those boxes.
0:43:27 – It’s so specific.
0:43:30 And if you run a solo apprenticeship or have a small team,
0:43:32 you don’t need to invent the next big thing
0:43:34 that’s going to be huge.
0:43:35 You need a big enough community
0:43:38 that you can run a stable business that grows over time.
0:43:40 So it doesn’t have to be an outrageous idea
0:43:41 and the more niche the better.
0:43:42 – All right, how much are you charging for this thing?
0:43:45 – Right, we just invented a thing.
0:43:46 – 10 years ago, ’cause I’m gonna start a knitting site,
0:43:50 I’m thinking advertising yarn affiliate sales.
0:43:54 But this one is like, well, maybe we’re gonna sell you
0:43:57 monthly templates on a membership basis or something.
0:43:58 So it sounds like you kind of have
0:44:00 a recurring revenue model here.
0:44:02 – Right, and we know that people tend to stay
0:44:04 in any membership about 90 days.
0:44:08 So if you are pricing it out such that you can recoup
0:44:10 in that amount of time, you could be okay.
0:44:12 And then you would have affiliate links
0:44:15 because why not have a relationship with your vendors?
0:44:17 You can create your own patterns.
0:44:18 They don’t have to be hard.
0:44:21 And then they can start to develop a collection
0:44:23 ’cause we all know that things like,
0:44:24 they used to send out plates
0:44:28 and the first plate came free with a special holder
0:44:30 to put on your wall and people would stay in
0:44:32 until they had collected all the plates.
0:44:35 So you could do a little something like that.
0:44:37 I think there’s a lot of potential with that.
0:44:39 – I was in this really interesting session
0:44:42 on these recurring services and pricing models.
0:44:44 And it was like, if you look at Disney Plus
0:44:49 and Netflix and Hulu and Spotify and YouTube Premium,
0:44:52 like, you know, they’re all between whatever,
0:44:54 10 and $25 a month.
0:44:56 And it’s like, this is intentionally designed
0:45:00 to be 1% or less of your monthly income.
0:45:03 And it’s like, the reason they’re priced that way
0:45:05 is that it becomes a utility.
0:45:06 It just becomes like, you know,
0:45:07 I’m not gonna cancel my water bill.
0:45:08 I’m not gonna cancel electricity.
0:45:10 It’s just like, this is just something that I pay for.
0:45:12 It’s like, whatever, it’s 1%.
0:45:13 Like, I’m gonna be, it’s gonna be fine.
0:45:15 And so they, you know, have really, really sticky
0:45:18 customer bases and hopefully much longer than 90 days.
0:45:21 That’s kind of how I might be thinking about pricing
0:45:24 in this type of recurring knitting pattern service,
0:45:27 you know, mystery novel type of business.
0:45:30 And then going out to find customers for that.
0:45:33 I guess there’s probably already some knitting communities
0:45:35 where you could start to build a reputation
0:45:38 and build a little bit of a following there.
0:45:39 – Exactly.
0:45:42 And this sort of thing, when you put your hands
0:45:44 into something, it puts your heart into the thing.
0:45:47 And so that automatically makes the community stickier.
0:45:50 If you turned to the woman next to you and said,
0:45:52 I’ve tangled up these yarns, I just don’t know.
0:45:54 And she takes it out of your hand with permission, of course,
0:45:56 and then unstitches that little section
0:45:59 and then gets you going again, you feel a bond with her.
0:46:01 And now that person is your friend.
0:46:05 And so the community, I think, would be inherently sticky.
0:46:05 – Okay, all right.
0:46:08 We’ll keep us posted on the future Melanie Warren
0:46:09 knitting site.
0:46:12 Well, we’re happy to, we’ll add it to the show notes
0:46:13 once it’s live.
0:46:15 Round three is the triple threat.
0:46:17 First up here is a marketing tactic
0:46:19 that is working right now.
0:46:21 This could be for you and your agency.
0:46:24 This could be for other copywriters,
0:46:27 copywriting in the age of AI, what’s going on right now?
0:46:30 – Oh, AI and I are close.
0:46:31 – You’re not mortal enemies?
0:46:36 – Not mortal enemies because I love it as an idea assistant.
0:46:39 I will come up with, okay,
0:46:42 I think this maybe could be connected to this
0:46:44 or what if it was the opposite of that?
0:46:48 If I break apart this idea, how does that work?
0:46:49 Oh, this happened.
0:46:51 I needed to do a copy review
0:46:53 and I didn’t have time to do it manually.
0:46:54 And so I used to be,
0:46:56 you could only put in small chunks of text.
0:46:58 I put in, it must have been 20 pages
0:47:00 and I put it all in there and I’m like,
0:47:01 tell me what the sales argument is
0:47:03 and tell me where the holes are.
0:47:04 So I don’t have it right for me,
0:47:07 but I do use it for that kind of stuff.
0:47:08 So fantastic.
0:47:09 So highly recommended.
0:47:11 – Okay, I’ll put that down actually
0:47:13 as the second part here.
0:47:15 A tool that you’re loving.
0:47:18 You can say, well, chat GPT is an idea assistant.
0:47:21 So AI is an IA, an idea assistant.
0:47:24 And that’s how I tend to use it in a lot of cases as well.
0:47:29 Here’s what are some creative ways to do XYZ.
0:47:31 And like, here’s the idea that we are,
0:47:32 here’s the list we already came up with.
0:47:34 And then it’ll inevitably throw out two or three
0:47:35 that you hadn’t thought of.
0:47:37 It’s like, oh, okay, those are great.
0:47:38 We’ll make sure to include those.
0:47:40 – Okay, so that was number two.
0:47:41 I jumped ahead.
0:47:43 Number one, a tactic I’m enjoying right now.
0:47:45 We talked about how my sun writes for SAS,
0:47:47 which tends to be dry.
0:47:49 And so we thought, well, what is the opposite of that?
0:47:50 The opposite of that is humorous.
0:47:53 And so we are working on building their LinkedIn following.
0:47:56 And I noticed people who are in software
0:47:59 don’t necessarily comment or interact on social media.
0:48:01 I’m starting to see movement on that.
0:48:03 People are reposting, they’re commenting,
0:48:05 like this brightened my day.
0:48:07 So the idea of taking the opposite
0:48:10 of what would be expected in your niche or industry,
0:48:12 and just trying that to see
0:48:14 if you can maybe get a little movement there.
0:48:16 So recommended.
0:48:17 – Okay, okay.
0:48:19 I’m just trying to think of other examples where,
0:48:22 okay, yeah, this is traditionally a dry industry.
0:48:26 We’re talking about finance or accounting or law or software.
0:48:27 And we’re going to inject a little bit of humor.
0:48:30 That playbook may still work if you could find a way
0:48:31 to break through the clutter
0:48:34 and break people’s pattern of expectations.
0:48:37 – So like the knitting thing, that doesn’t make sense really,
0:48:39 because I’m going to be sending you yarn to the mail
0:48:41 and then hoping that you pick up the needles yourself.
0:48:44 But if I match it to some sort of a community thing,
0:48:46 maybe we all get on Zoom and do it together.
0:48:49 Now that is the opposite of the normal expectation.
0:48:51 That is a way to differentiate yourself.
0:48:53 So it would take a little doing, I think, to implement it,
0:48:56 but what is not normally done?
0:48:59 What am I not seeing here that could be here?
0:49:02 Gives you a way to have ideas so that you’re thinking up
0:49:05 and out rather than narrow and narrow
0:49:06 about what’s already been done.
0:49:10 – Okay, a good book to read on this subject would be Zag.
0:49:11 I forget the author,
0:49:14 but in a sea of plainness, how can you do the opposite?
0:49:15 – Yeah.
0:49:18 It talks about in a time when all the car companies
0:49:22 are racing to build bigger and heavier excursions
0:49:25 and expeditions and SUVs and Suburbans.
0:49:28 Mini Cooper comes out with a really small SUV.
0:49:30 It’s like, okay, we’re not going to compete in that space,
0:49:33 but we’re going to come out with something completely different
0:49:35 and opposite around the same time the Prius launches
0:49:39 and they’ve carved out a completely opposite space.
0:49:40 And maybe there’s something to think about
0:49:41 in what you’re doing.
0:49:44 What is the standard in your industry
0:49:45 and how can you differentiate?
0:49:47 How can you position yourself a little bit differently?
0:49:48 All right, so now speaking of books,
0:49:51 the last segment of the Triple Thread is your favorite book
0:49:53 from the last 12 months.
0:49:55 – I read a lot, a lot, a lot.
0:49:57 And one of the things that I’ve been doing
0:50:01 is studying fiction because that is a way
0:50:04 to introduce storytelling into the marketing
0:50:05 you’re already doing.
0:50:06 We do it with testimonials and stuff,
0:50:08 but in marketing, you’ve got very few words
0:50:10 and you have to get across big ideas
0:50:11 and they have to matter.
0:50:13 And to do that, you can take that from fiction.
0:50:15 But I love to cook and I really love to eat.
0:50:18 And so the book that I’ve been drawing right now
0:50:23 is called Sourdough and it’s Robin Sloan.
0:50:25 And it is exactly what it promises.
0:50:28 It is a book about a woman who is an engineer
0:50:32 and is gifted a sourdough starter
0:50:34 and her adventures of the sourdough
0:50:36 taking on a personality of its own
0:50:39 and how she starts her own business at a food market
0:50:42 around this idea of I’m gonna bake my own bread.
0:50:44 Talking about zagging, like a random,
0:50:47 she had a stable job as an engineer,
0:50:48 but now she’s gonna be a sourdough baker
0:50:50 and how and why that changes her life.
0:50:53 – Okay, sourdough, we’ll add it to the list.
0:50:54 Never heard of it.
0:50:56 And this is a work of fiction by Robin Sloan.
0:50:57 All right, well, very good.
0:50:59 Melanie, this has been awesome.
0:51:01 Thanks so much for joining me, taking the time
0:51:03 to walk us through the nine buyers
0:51:06 and brainstorm a little bit of new startup business ideas,
0:51:07 new side hustle ideas going on.
0:51:11 You can find Melanie at ninebuyersystem.com.
0:51:13 You can grab the book over there.
0:51:14 You can also find it on Amazon.
0:51:17 We will link Melanie’s profile up on LinkedIn
0:51:19 so you can connect with her over there as well.
0:51:20 Thanks to you so much for stopping by,
0:51:21 for sharing your insight.
0:51:23 Big thanks to our sponsors
0:51:25 for helping make this content free for everyone.
0:51:28 As always, you can hit up sidehustlenation.com/deals
0:51:31 for all the latest offers from our sponsors in one place.
0:51:32 Thank you for supporting the advertisers
0:51:33 that support the show.
0:51:35 That is it for me.
0:51:36 Thank you so much for tuning in.
0:51:37 If you find a value in the show,
0:51:40 the greatest compliment is to share it with a friend.
0:51:41 To fire off that text message,
0:51:43 maybe to a friend of yours who’s struggling
0:51:45 to sell their thing and will have your thought about,
0:51:48 your buyer persona is number three.
0:51:49 Maybe they need to hear that
0:51:51 and I appreciate you helping spread the word.
0:51:54 Until next time, let’s go out there and make something happen.
0:51:56 And I’ll catch you in the next edition
0:51:57 of the Side Hustle Show.
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