AI transcript
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0:01:15 behold my name is Maximus entertain us and I come to you with big stars in big
0:01:22 dramas like gladiator to Dexter original sin and 1923 stream paramount plus for
0:01:28 699 a month welcome to raging moderates I’m Jessica Tarlow I’m Tim Miller Tim
0:01:34 this is the banter section how are you hey banter I’m just happy to be in here
0:01:39 for Scott you know I think that I’m gonna be a downgrade in certain manners and
0:01:44 upgrade in hair you know we’ll see what the what the people think we will see
0:01:46 what the people think I think they’ll be excited to see if they were super
0:01:49 excited when you joined us but we were together all three of us it was fun it’s
0:01:54 good I mean I’d rather be raging with you guys than I don’t maybe you have a
0:01:58 view on this I think not raging with the dams on the hill I don’t I’m not
0:02:03 feeling a raging yes no democratic snoozing yeah I’d rather be raging with
0:02:09 the moderates than snoozing with the progs heavy for the banter section no
0:02:13 no I’m good with it you want to talk about Marty ground times no I don’t want
0:02:16 to talk about I mean if you want to talk about Marty ground hiding in your
0:02:23 house we could do that but do you really think that they’re snoozing or we’re not
0:02:28 paying attention it’s a good question I think that they are doing a lot of stuff
0:02:35 that people who are who read hill newsletters and who like care and who
0:02:39 know a lot about what’s happening in the federal government I think they are
0:02:46 seeing Democrats I think that anyone who’s a casual observer of politics is
0:02:51 seeing only Donald Trump and Yvonne Musk and Travis and Taylor I think that’s
0:02:54 like the material that they’re giving and so I don’t know if they’re
0:02:59 snoozing so much as they’re not yelling you know and I feel like they could
0:03:04 probably benefit from some yelling that resonates outside of yelling is the
0:03:12 trick for that one because I have seen some yelling and I have hated it in the
0:03:18 right kind of context you know I’m open to singing and chance but you know maybe
0:03:23 maybe we could work on the language of the chance a little bit yeah we’re
0:03:27 getting lapsed by the YMCA so you got to think about that we’ve given I the gays
0:03:30 gave away YMCA well you don’t even want it back I know I made it official it was
0:03:34 a long it was not a you know it was it was not a battle in the culture where
0:03:39 we expected but it was a battle that was thrust upon us and I think for a
0:03:44 moment during the Biden era we had felt like we’d taken YMCA back from the
0:03:49 magas and unfortunately I think that is one L we just have to take it’s over now
0:03:54 and the village people in YMCA despite the fact that that is a song about
0:03:58 cruising in gay gyms the magas have taken it from us and I don’t think we’re
0:04:01 ever gonna get it back it’s unfortunate I don’t think you’re gonna hear a lot of
0:04:07 YMCA at gay pride this year no probably not abracadabra by Lady Gaga instead I
0:04:09 think you’ll be hearing a lot of abracadabra it’s a pretty good upgrade I
0:04:14 think so did you watch any of the SNL 50 stuff I was in and out I was watching
0:04:19 White Lotus and I was you know podcast prepping so I caught a little bit of it
0:04:24 I really liked a couple of the Eddie Murphy segments Eddie Murphy being
0:04:30 Tracy Morgan was hilarious Eddie Murphy doing some borderline inappropriate
0:04:34 prison rape jokes with Will Ferrell and like one of the very last segments I
0:04:38 also really liked those are my big takeaways prison rape is always a
0:04:43 highlight I said multiple times to my husband that I can’t believe this show
0:04:47 is happening like if it weren’t the SNL 50 there’s no way these jokes would have
0:04:50 made it in but I’m pretty sure everybody showed up and they were like we are not
0:04:55 playing by 2025 standards we’re playing by whatever year we were actually on the
0:05:01 show and it was a lot of it was hilarious but I was overwhelmed by
0:05:05 Cher I don’t know if you saw these shots of like Kevin Costner losing his mind
0:05:10 and Billy Crystal watching this 78-year-old woman look like a 30-year-old
0:05:14 woman belting out if I could turn back time which I think the gaze still we
0:05:24 still have and now to the show and I’m keeping us on time which is not Scott
0:05:29 strong suit so how’d I do in the banters I think you did great I don’t know we’ll
0:05:33 see okay so in today’s episode of raging moderates we are discussing Trump’s plan
0:05:37 to end the war in Ukraine Trump’s lifeline to Eric Adams and the state of
0:05:42 anti-Trump Republicans your specialty all right let’s get into it big moves on
0:05:46 the world stage last week Trump says he had a highly productive call with
0:05:50 Vladimir Putin claiming that they’re now working closely on a Ukraine peace deal
0:05:55 he even floated the idea of a future sit-down with Putin this all came after
0:05:58 Russia released American teacher Mark Fogle which Trump called a quote sign of
0:06:04 good faith meanwhile Kiev is on edge after a drone strike hit Chernobyl just
0:06:07 days after Zelensky asked the US for more aid and in Europe leaders are
0:06:11 scrambling an emergency summit is set for Monday so that’s today so by tomorrow
0:06:15 you may have an update a man fears that Trump’s outreach to Russia is leaving
0:06:19 them isolated UK Prime Minister Kier Starmer called it a once in a
0:06:23 generation security moment vice president JD Vance warned that Russia could face
0:06:27 economic and military pressure if it doesn’t negotiate in good faith but in
0:06:31 Munich he took aim at European leaders instead claiming their real threat isn’t
0:06:35 Russia or China it’s their own policies on free speech and refusal to work with
0:06:40 the hard-right parties in government back at home not much better the White
0:06:43 House is clashing with the press again this time banning an AP reporter from
0:06:48 the Oval Office for refusing to call the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of America the
0:06:53 AP is now accusing the administration of violating the first amendment let’s talk
0:06:59 Ukraine first what do you think the game here is I mean you can start with Pete
0:07:04 Hague Seth’s maiden voyage which did not go well and he’s walking things back
0:07:11 within 24 hours but what do you think Rubio and Trump and Vance want for
0:07:15 Ukraine well as a I guess cradle neocon I don’t know if the neocons exist anymore
0:07:20 I have a ton of thoughts about this I first just really quick because this I
0:07:23 think it’s got lost and I’m obsessed with the crypto element of everything that’s
0:07:27 happening the hostage trade or we’re gonna call it mark Fogel very happy
0:07:33 Fogel’s back that’s great news but what got missed was the person that got let out
0:07:39 on our side was like one of the original crypto scammers who was running a
0:07:46 massive crypto scam that allowed Russia to you know avert sanctions you know by
0:07:50 by paying for things you know using using crypto rather than you know cash and
0:07:54 going through the regular banking system I only say that just because I just
0:07:59 everybody should just like make a mental note of that because I think that the
0:08:04 crypto corruption that is coming over the next four years might end up being one
0:08:08 of the biggest stories that happen bigger than the Trump coin it’s
0:08:11 interesting well it’s related the Trump quite it’s all related right like I
0:08:17 mean I think that that’s how people can manage it well they just say okay we
0:08:21 know he’s a grifter who does things like this but it’s so much bigger than that
0:08:25 and the trade wasn’t publicized at all it took days for anyone to know if we
0:08:30 got if we had to trade anything for Mark Fogel yeah for sure and so obviously
0:08:33 they’re bad people getting traded and all these things like Victor boot got
0:08:36 traded during the Biden administration so I and I’m happy Mark Fogel is home so
0:08:40 it’s like less a commentary on like the particular trade than just like it’s
0:08:43 interesting where the priorities work like that the first Russian person out
0:08:49 is this crypto scammer person doing the deal Steve Whitcoff his son is business
0:08:55 partners with the Trump kids on their crypto scam right so like that’s not a
0:08:59 coincidence all right I’m not I’m not the always sunny guy putting yarn against
0:09:03 the wall here like it’s a pretty direct connection directly to Trump’s pocket so
0:09:10 anyway the broader deal I mean like the sad part about this is that just like we
0:09:13 appear to be on the side of the bad guys I mean I think that JD did some tough
0:09:18 talk but what is happening is we have this meeting in Saudi that you referenced
0:09:23 the Ukrainians aren’t even invited like we’re having a bilateral with the
0:09:29 Russians who invaded Ukraine and who we are sanctioning currently to try to cut
0:09:34 a deal that Ukraine isn’t even at the table for and Europe is having a separate
0:09:37 you know that the Europeans are having a separate meeting at the same time as you
0:09:41 mentioned Kirsten we’re like the UK is out there saying we’re gonna put boots on
0:09:46 the ground if necessary peacekeeping troops to support Ukraine and so like in
0:09:50 this moment like we’re giving some mixed signals from the White House but
0:09:56 directionally most of the signals are that we are sympathetic to the invaders
0:10:01 to the autocrats to the people that are we’re attacking a free democratic
0:10:05 country like this you know whatever you thought bad about American foreign
0:10:11 policy in the past like this is like a massive shift like this is not just a
0:10:15 bad judgment call it’s like it’s the fact that it seems like that we’re
0:10:20 supporting you know the countries that are in conflict with what the American
0:10:25 values have been in the post-World War II era so like at the top level like that
0:10:28 is the thing to me that’s the most striking and when you looked at these
0:10:33 press conferences both Hegseth and Trump can’t remember if answers asked this but
0:10:36 definitely Hegseth and Trump were asked you know as part of these
0:10:40 negotiations what are you asking Russia to give up and neither of them could
0:10:44 answer I get Hegseth gives like a two minutes of gobbledygook because you
0:10:48 know that he couldn’t come up with anything and Trump starts attacking
0:10:52 Europe during the answer to that question and so I think that kind of
0:10:55 tells you all you need to know yeah I think there was something about shooting
0:11:00 values and that you can’t do that and Pete’s answer I can’t really get to
0:11:04 calling him Secretary Hegseth yet I’m still in in Pete mode you and Pete
0:11:13 pals did you guys not drinking buddies we we have socialized but no comment no I
0:11:17 totally agree with you and one thing that’s been sticking out to me is how
0:11:24 quickly everybody has folded from who they were beforehand because at least I
0:11:28 was holding on to the idea I know I know Mike Waltz really well the National
0:11:32 Security Advisor were in a foreign policy group together Marco Rubio has been
0:11:38 very clear about his foreign policy views for a long time and I don’t think
0:11:43 any of either of those two would have ever thought that they would be part of
0:11:48 the deal that was going to essentially tell Ukraine you have no future in NATO
0:11:51 and you’re never getting back your territory I mean even for getting the
0:11:57 pre-2014 lines even from just a few years ago and maybe that speaks to the
0:12:01 awesome power of Trump maybe that speaks to the new realignment within the
0:12:07 Republican Party but I don’t see anyone in positions of power now that are going
0:12:13 to be holding on to traditional American views of foreign policy in our role in
0:12:17 the world no I mean Rubio has been basically a full-throated defender of
0:12:23 the Trump push on this and and that pivot for him has been you know kind of
0:12:28 happening gradually over time since 2016 when he was you know kind of the
0:12:33 candidate that was running you know the most maybe even more than chev like the
0:12:38 most W with like the most Bush compassionate conservatism like type
0:12:43 platform of any of the candidates and so you know no who knows what how things
0:12:49 actually go I guess it’s better that Rubio is there in Saudi Arabia than some
0:12:53 of the other potential people who could be there from the Trump orbit maybe
0:12:57 there are things happening on the margins that matter and like you said
0:13:06 Waltz was a very traditional you know type of you know type of Republican it
0:13:10 is in the house as far as foreign policy is concerned and I interviewed Tom
0:13:14 Malinowski the Democrat from New Jersey last week who’s he’s a pretty kind of
0:13:18 hawkish Democrat and so he was like when I got to Congress I was looking to
0:13:21 Republicans that I could work with like where we might have some overlap on
0:13:26 foreign policy and and he was like Waltz and Stefanik were the two people that I
0:13:30 turned to and and he’s like they’ve you know he’s like it’s just Stefanik is
0:13:35 totally you know gone native with the MAGA and he’s like it appears like Waltz
0:13:40 is doing the same so and we’ll see how things shake out this week but the
0:13:44 signs are not positive and it’s really a sign of kind of submission to the
0:13:48 Trump worldview from all these folks. What do you think is the likelihood that
0:13:52 Zelensky gets his way so he was speaking at the Munich Security Council and he
0:13:56 said we need an armed forces of Europe this is after JD Vance essentially took
0:14:01 a flamethrower to our relationship with Europe in his speech clearly Zelensky
0:14:08 does not see us as the top partner opportunity for him going forward do
0:14:13 you think Europe is really going to unify without us? Yeah I mean I wouldn’t see us
0:14:17 as the top partner opportunity either if I was saying yeah I think Europe will I
0:14:25 think it could be a positive outgrowth of like the Trump worldview the Europe
0:14:32 ends up you know stepping up their game on defense and you know takes more
0:14:35 responsibility and it’s not like I don’t want to say they’re not taking any
0:14:39 responsibility for their own defense but but actually you know you know sort of
0:14:43 takes seriously the act that they might have to go it alone at some point and
0:14:45 you’ve seen this from people and from Europeans at the Munich Security
0:14:50 Conference leader NATO said something to this effect which was pretty Secretary
0:14:54 General rather which is pretty alarming so I think that that’s possibly
0:15:01 positive but like okay that has potential massive negative ramifications
0:15:07 for us you know I mean I was going for this out there was a woman who is a
0:15:13 journalist in Ukraine who whose quote just really kind of dropped me in my
0:15:18 feet over the weekend she wrote she said this her name is Anna Merlekina she’s
0:15:21 from Moria Paul and like had to flee to Kiev she said when you live in a world
0:15:24 that is crumbling under your feet the only thing that helps you survive is to
0:15:27 believe in guidelines and civilized democratic countries that uphold values
0:15:31 when countries like the United States cease to be pillars there’s nothing to
0:15:37 hope for I mean that is like that is a jaw-dropping quote from from somebody
0:15:41 over in Ukraine and I just think that’s reflective of how people in Europe are
0:15:46 gonna see us and I just believe that there’ll be negative ramifications for
0:15:50 that down the line we don’t exactly know how or when but you know I think that
0:15:54 Europe will kind of decide that they should be prepared to go it without us
0:15:58 going back to I guess we we got into ineffective Democrats very early on in
0:16:04 the podcast but I do maybe just because I work in communication I guess that I
0:16:08 always think that there was an opportunity to do better if we had
0:16:14 messaged properly about this and it doesn’t feel like we have made the case
0:16:17 this is Democrats and Republicans like obviously you know Mitch McConnell and
0:16:21 the kind of more traditional sad have been you know screaming from the rooftops
0:16:26 at a low pitch he doesn’t scream so loud anymore at 83 but have been trying to
0:16:30 talk about the importance of keeping together the democratic world order and
0:16:36 that you need to swear countries that share our values and it feels like that
0:16:41 has just fallen on completely deaf ears and that people have moved to this world
0:16:48 where it’s what about me first and can’t see the second order effects if we end up
0:16:52 abandoning Ukraine and so do you think there’s anything we could have done or
0:16:56 this storm which is taking over the world right was there any way to stop this
0:17:00 on this one I’ll let you make fun of the Democrats communications and I’ll take
0:17:04 responsibility for my people because I you do you I think possibly no because of
0:17:12 Iraq honestly like I do think that it was just such a debacle that they’re you
0:17:17 know within the country like there has just become an increased skepticism
0:17:23 from another word like hostility to the idea that we should be involved overseas
0:17:28 in foreign conflicts and I think it’s very complicated to then say okay well
0:17:32 this is not a rock right like Ukraine is different like we don’t have troops on
0:17:36 the ground we’re not trying to do regime change we’re trying to defend an ally and
0:17:41 that helps us because you know if Russia successfully overtakes Ukraine that’s
0:17:46 going to demonstrate weakness you know to the you know rules-based order and
0:17:49 that could cause threats to us down the line right like it’s just it’s a
0:17:55 complicated point to make right especially in in the face of you know
0:18:01 really like pretty bipartisan increasingly like opposition to us
0:18:07 playing this role in the world and so to me the obligation is then like this is
0:18:12 what Trump has unraveled is that there were a number of things that are not
0:18:19 really popular among the whole country that leaders in both parties continued
0:18:23 to do such as USAID because it was the right thing to do and because they were
0:18:29 responsible leaders right and sometimes that is you know required this is not
0:18:34 ancient Greece we don’t we don’t have a direct direct democracy on purpose not
0:18:40 everything should be decided based on 50% plus one vote you know if that is true
0:18:44 I would have never gotten married right like that was a fell as an opposite
0:18:48 opposed vote until the Supreme Court did it right like eventually sometimes
0:18:50 leaders have to do things that are unpopular because they’re the right
0:18:54 thing to do maybe sometimes they get held accountable for that Trump because he
0:18:59 doesn’t care about any of that doesn’t like have really core values or empathy
0:19:04 or care about you know the American idea doesn’t believe that doesn’t believe
0:19:09 that exists only believes their American interests has wiped away all of that and
0:19:15 so I don’t know that the Democrats could have you know just by making their
0:19:22 messaging better you know changed people’s view of this or you know broadly
0:19:25 America’s role when it comes to aid so I mean I think that you could probably
0:19:29 give a few of them some lessons on how to make those arguments better having
0:19:34 watched you on the five and having watched some of them but I don’t know
0:19:37 that it would have actually made the difference in this case it’s just such a
0:19:42 big failure when you think about how core Biden made it to his reason for being
0:19:46 right I mean part of it was I have to get you all through COVID and I can be
0:19:50 America’s grandpa and I’m the most empathetic man you ever met but it was
0:19:55 also like this return to normalcy and you know people’s lived experience was
0:20:00 just so not commensurate with the world that he was talking about that they
0:20:06 were just like a few right I’m out it was a failure and and I don’t and I mean
0:20:12 obviously Biden’s inability to deliver a message I had ramifications like what
0:20:15 you know in this case was it you know was that the key difference I don’t know
0:20:18 but I mean I think it was a problem across multiple verticals and it
0:20:22 relates to the democratic stuff now it just he was not he was absent right and
0:20:25 there was a moment in 2020 where I think people were so fucking sick of the
0:20:29 news and Trump and COVID like the idea that Biden wouldn’t be in their lives
0:20:32 every day was kind of people are like that’s a good thing there really some
0:20:37 people out there that that that was an attractive but like over time as crises
0:20:42 unfolded as inflation happened as the invasion of Ukraine happened as 10
0:20:48 7 happened you know people need somebody that can talk to them right and to
0:20:53 deliver a compelling message and that can you know I demonstrate leadership
0:20:58 traits or demonstrate strength at least and I think that that was like kind of
0:21:01 missing from the last couple years a lot of the last administration I would even
0:21:05 say that the quality of the messaging wouldn’t have mattered as much if it was
0:21:09 happening as more frequently that people actually just want to physically see you
0:21:12 and then their minds run wild and obviously there are people who are
0:21:15 feeding this that are like oh he’s not here because he’s dead but he’ll be
0:21:20 awake at 2 o’clock and then he’s gonna die again I tell you I never
0:21:25 compliment Trump so just so you want but like guy has been ever like there was
0:21:28 this thing on on the left in like resistance world like and during the
0:21:33 campaign that was like Trump is just as old as Biden and Trump’s you know brain
0:21:37 is putting to and like the media it’s so unfair that the media is making the
0:21:41 Biden age thing like the only thing that’s like I can say I don’t think that
0:21:46 is true like Trump gives off crazy energy not old energy like he just does and
0:21:49 since he’s been in there I thought I didn’t know I thought it was an unknown
0:21:54 like could my Trump win and just be so happy that he’s not in jail that he’s
0:21:59 just gonna golf and like go on the NASCAR track which he did and like do fun
0:22:02 stuff do the fun stuff and the accoutrements of the presidency and not
0:22:05 do everything else and that’s been the opposite like he’s given more press
0:22:09 conferences than anybody like dude is like I lose track of all the press
0:22:12 conferences he’s done like I missed one on Friday you know but like he’s
0:22:20 talking to media all the time and I’m like that is how to do it in the modern
0:22:24 media age like and I think that that is something that those of us who oppose
0:22:27 them could could learn from. Yes be everywhere all the time even if they
0:22:31 don’t like you and their feed I have this conversation constantly with people
0:22:35 I’m like oh but the engagement is so mean and they’re like but it’s engagement
0:22:41 like that’s what Trump understands like all the hate comments they’re still
0:22:44 thinking about you you’re still living what did they say like rent-free in your
0:22:49 head I want to talk to you about the AP but just really quickly did you I
0:22:52 shouldn’t say did you make anything because it obviously is a big deal about
0:22:56 the State Department taking down the statement that they that we do not
0:23:02 support Taiwanese independence and like that feels like it’s flying in the face
0:23:05 of the way that we’re moving with Russia because obviously that’s China’s red line
0:23:10 that feels like signature Rubio to me who’s such a big China hawk do you think
0:23:14 anything’s gonna come of this or maybe I’m wrong about this but I kind of just
0:23:18 see Taiwan and going the same path as Ukraine right where there is some
0:23:22 resistance inside the administration that like once you know wants us to be
0:23:25 stronger in that case and that there’s some resistance among the Republicans on
0:23:29 the Hill resistance or but some views among Republicans on the Hill and in
0:23:33 the administration there are more hawkish on Taiwan than Trump’s itself but
0:23:36 Trump was asked about Taiwan at one of his hundred press conferences we were
0:23:40 just talking about recently and he goes on a rant about how they’ve been
0:23:45 stealing our jobs and how you know jobs for the micro the chips need to be
0:23:51 coming back to America and I just if you just looked at the tone of his comments
0:23:55 it didn’t sound like the tone of somebody that’s ready to put American
0:24:01 defense power on the line to protect Taiwan and I just don’t see how a Trump
0:24:06 Vance administration you know who has just laid the groundwork with their
0:24:10 followers that they only care about us first they only care about American
0:24:13 interests first we shouldn’t care about what’s happening on the other side of
0:24:19 the globe I if I if a conflagration happened with China and Taiwan I just
0:24:22 don’t know how they can go to their supporters and be like oh yeah that
0:24:25 actually we need to put in a couple hundred billion here or God forbid
0:24:30 troops or ships or whatever I like I don’t see it Marco might be trying to fool
0:24:33 himself into thinking that Trump sees China differently because it’s a bigger
0:24:39 threat but I I think that if push came to shove we’d see pretty much the same
0:24:42 thing we see from him on Ukraine all right so we’ve got a rogue Rubio moment
0:24:46 that’s that’s how I see it and I think Trump likes that actually too by the way
0:24:50 I will say this I think Trump doesn’t mind if people are confused you know like
0:24:55 his his he is he benefits from us being right and so I think it’s I don’t think
0:24:58 that like he’s like mad at Marco over this I think that he’s like well you know
0:25:03 we’ll keep them on their toes like that’s part of Trump’s mindset and so I my
0:25:08 point is just like if push comes to shove I don’t if I’m she I’m like these
0:25:12 guys aren’t gonna go to battle for Taiwan that would be the bad I’d be making
0:25:16 yeah like let them put whatever they want on their silly website about
0:25:21 cooperation with Taiwan okay moving on to something else sad I I want to talk
0:25:25 about the AP getting banned so they were kicked out of the press briefings and
0:25:30 then they weren’t allowed a photographer and a reporter weren’t allowed on the
0:25:36 presidential plane and there was a big I shouldn’t it feels so lame to say there
0:25:40 was a big explainer because it wasn’t even like a real piece of journalism but
0:25:45 I got a nifty newsletter from Axios talking about the kind of history of
0:25:49 this administration’s objections to the AP and basically they’re mad that the
0:25:57 AP style book has used terms that they hate to liberally like gender DEI
0:26:04 inclusivity etc I’m old enough to remember when the other news stations
0:26:09 stood with Fox News when the Obama administration wasn’t going to let them
0:26:13 in to do a pool briefing with the representative from the administration
0:26:17 and basically ABC NBC CBS they all said if Fox can’t do it then we’re not doing
0:26:20 it and then they let them in begrudgingly but it doesn’t feel like that moment is
0:26:24 happening at all like everyone is bemoaning the fact that the AP is
0:26:29 being excluded but no one is doing anything about it and I mean this feels
0:26:35 like a pretty obvious we a don’t know what the First Amendment means and be we
0:26:38 don’t care and we’re running this like the Wild West
0:26:43 I mean the asymmetry is just so obvious it’s almost like you know it’s like dog
0:26:47 bites man to even mention it like yeah I mean look so in part I actually would
0:26:53 be defensive of the other mainstream outlets like because I think that if ABC
0:26:58 and NBC and CBS said we’re gonna boycott in solidarity with AP I think I feel like
0:27:07 the Trump administration would be like okay peace you know yeah so I don’t you
0:27:10 know I mean that’s like the situation I think everybody should just be aware of
0:27:14 like what time it is and what’s what’s happening out there as far as like the
0:27:17 more interesting part of this I know obviously there’s the First Amendment
0:27:25 threat here but to me is how all in these guys are going on like you know
0:27:29 Patriot what I call patriotic correctness like you know it it’s not
0:27:37 just enough to stop doing you know pro DEI activities they they need to snuff
0:27:44 out anybody that is using words or language that they don’t like right and
0:27:50 to a preposterous extent right like the idea that like everybody has to use the
0:27:55 new name of the Gulf that they just changed one minute ago like it you know
0:28:00 or else they’re gonna be banned is ridiculous right like and in some ways
0:28:03 it’s ridiculous as some of the most extreme things that you see like on the
0:28:09 far left on PC like demanding that people you know use you know use Latinx
0:28:12 or whatever right and so I do wonder if it’s going to backfire on them
0:28:19 eventually I don’t are people really for this like it feels it feels very
0:28:26 mockable so obviously it’s serious but I do think they are like very much being
0:28:31 responsive to something that only like a tiny group of far-right trolls who are
0:28:36 super online actually care about and I don’t know if that’s like a path to
0:28:41 long-term success for the right now I they definitely just want to get in as
0:28:45 many kind of gloating laps early on I think that they know that it just gets
0:28:50 more and more complicated and certainly as we head into special elections and
0:28:53 the midterms and things like that which hopefully Democrats will perform better
0:28:58 than we did so you do think that’s conscious like they’re like hey you
0:29:02 know this isn’t gonna last forever this like gloating honeymoon and so we want
0:29:06 to like rub their face and shit as for as long as possible like and like there’s
0:29:09 like a little bit of that I think they can look to past administrations and say
0:29:13 okay you know your first two years are when you can actually get things done
0:29:17 right they have control of everything they’re definitely trying it on right
0:29:21 to the largest extent possible you know let’s ram through four and a half
0:29:26 trillion in tax cuts like let’s try to cut all of these entitlement programs
0:29:30 now they realize that they’re not going to get their wish list of all of it but
0:29:33 they are at a moment where they’re owning the culture and so I feel like
0:29:37 they’re just taking advantage and saying okay well if we haven’t
0:29:41 grated ourselves to a segment of the American population that wouldn’t have
0:29:46 given us their time at all for eight years ago let’s really go for it and you
0:29:50 can tell that also in the attitude that Caroline Levitt the press secretary has
0:29:56 about everything I mean she’s so haughty and arrogant in the way that she
0:30:00 delivers everything which I listen I wish that I had more of that in me I
0:30:05 wish I didn’t have such a terrible case of imposter symptoms but like to be 27
0:30:11 years old and to walk up there with that you know it’s a fact this is a fact
0:30:16 right or like every man in Gaza is wearing a condom that we paid for well
0:30:23 actually no no that’s not true in Mozambique there are some condoms the
0:30:28 godsend you know and it’s it’s the Trump bravado that if you say it a certain
0:30:34 way there’s at least a good amount of people that are gonna believe you and I
0:30:38 think that they’re living for the moment right it’s like a Yolo administration
0:30:43 at this point and until there are real consequences I think they’re gonna go
0:30:47 for it with everything when the AP is calling Mount Denali, Mount McKinley
0:30:52 right now I mean they’re doing half of the crazy thing I wonder is yours is that
0:30:56 true like your comment about how they’re owning the culture now I can’t figure
0:31:02 this out like is that actually true or does it just kind of feel like it’s true
0:31:06 and or and maybe that’s a distinction without it would I be able to have a
0:31:10 distinction without a difference right but I don’t I’m kind of like is it just
0:31:15 political obsessives who feel this way I mean did people’s lives really just
0:31:18 change like did they change like their mindset on this sort of stuff like
0:31:25 overnight I don’t know well they’re owning infrequent voters that’s true that
0:31:32 are 18 to 40 right that and those are real culture vultures those are people
0:31:35 that are listening to podcasts those are people who are concerned about all of
0:31:41 the dies in our food those are people who are picking schools for their kids to
0:31:46 go to and are disenchanted with the public school system and wanting to get
0:31:50 away from feeling like they have to use gender pronouns on their email
0:31:55 signatures I mean these are real things that folks are thinking about and so I
0:31:58 don’t know if owning the culture is the right way to put it because I still
0:32:04 don’t think that Kid Rock is cooler than Jay-Z that will just never happen but you
0:32:12 can tell I can’t I can’t fight the 40 and I’m 41 in a couple of weeks no but
0:32:15 Kid Rock was on Bill Maher on Friday night and I found the interview really
0:32:19 interesting I mean he was first of all I had forgotten I guess that he played
0:32:24 Obama’s inauguration in 08 and he was like it’s not as if I liked Obama then
0:32:32 you just show up and you do this but he was essentially mocking us for like
0:32:37 liberal leaning people and you knew new to the side of the fence but for freaking
0:32:41 out about everything all the time and I do think that they are owning the
0:32:46 culture by making it clear that majority of people feel like it’s just not that
0:32:52 serious and part of that is a mistake on Democrats part by not making it feel
0:32:57 like it’s that serious in practical ways not like this guy is actually gonna fall
0:33:00 but like this is the way that your checkbook is going to be affected this
0:33:03 is where your kid is going to be affected but like people are walking
0:33:07 around just saying I don’t think politics is that serious and the
0:33:11 Republican side seems like that right now yeah it’s interesting I mean that
0:33:16 goes against you know my entire like like everything in my body wants to
0:33:19 reject that like you know some like things are singers things matter
0:33:25 actually but I do I’m it makes me curious about the Federman kind of model
0:33:30 because he that like that’s kind of what he’s doing basically which is like
0:33:36 mocking like progressive who are like hyperventilating while like just
0:33:40 basically voting with the Democrats all the time and I don’t think that every
0:33:45 Democrat should act like that but I do wonder if there is some potential
0:33:50 efficacy to having a couple of Democrats out there who have more of a
0:33:55 slack or energy to try to break through all right let’s take a quick break stay
0:33:57 with us
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0:36:33 get covered at pac dot blue cross dot ca welcome back mayor Eric Adams just got
0:36:36 a legal lifeline but it came from the most controversial figure in New York
0:36:40 politics Donald Trump the Trump administration’s justice department
0:36:43 dropped Adams’s corruption case but in a city where Trump remains deeply
0:36:48 unpopular that reprieve could be more of a political liability than a win now
0:36:52 Adams is facing accusations of being in Trump’s pocket especially after appearing
0:36:55 alongside Trump’s borders are Tom Homan and making moves that align with the
0:36:59 president’s immigration policies meanwhile the case is dismissal has
0:37:03 sparked a crisis inside Trump’s DOJ a mass resignation of prosecutors
0:37:08 including one who accused DOJ leaders of looking for a quote fool to take the
0:37:15 fall have you been following that’s probably not as closely as me here’s
0:37:18 why I’m into it Hagen Scott and who you know he’s the guy you mentioned who said
0:37:21 that I expect you’ll eventually find someone who’s enough of a fool or a
0:37:28 coward to file your file your motion this guy is like special forces dude who
0:37:34 brown stars whatever I’ll give him a third for this if he only has two but
0:37:40 who clerked for so I believe he was Kavanaugh and Roberts and then Danny
0:37:45 also soon who’s the original person who read the letter to Emil Bove she was
0:37:51 Scalia a Scalia clerk both I mean both like Scott and his letter kind of
0:37:55 subtly implies that he likes Trump I never get exactly how he put up but he
0:37:58 was like I could kind of see the perspective he’s like some people might
0:38:01 be quitting because they’re really upset with this administration like that’s
0:38:04 not me and I kind of see how a businessman could think this was a good
0:38:08 deal it’s just not legal like was that’s like that’s TLDR summary of his
0:38:15 letter and so the fact that it’s these two people who are fed sock folks who are
0:38:20 stepping out that’s Federalist Society for maybe raging moderates audiences are
0:38:31 like conservative legal folks who are just saying no who are like standing up
0:38:35 and saying I’m not gonna go along with this and I think that’s pretty powerful
0:38:38 and it comes at a time when I don’t know at least maybe just maybe just me or
0:38:42 maybe just a bulwark people are like thirsting for people to be showing a
0:38:46 little bit more backbone right now and so I’ve that’s kind of why I’ve been
0:38:50 following it less on like the legal nerd side but just more on this is kind of
0:38:56 how you do it as far as standing up to a liberal actions yeah I mean I was into
0:39:02 it I had been feeling starved I guess for some old-school intellectual
0:39:07 resistance I guess not people out there with a sign you know like hands off my
0:39:14 whatever but I like them but they’re not getting us really anywhere at this
0:39:22 point but it feels like what they’re doing is because it’s a harbinger of bad
0:39:25 things to come so the Adams case itself or at least what we know about it you
0:39:29 would expect more I guess in the indictment he definitely broke the law
0:39:33 and I thought that’s a student’s letter was you know very specific about that
0:39:37 and that does matter to people that are career prosecutors who take the law very
0:39:44 seriously but to me I felt a little bit of a if you think that we’re just gonna
0:39:49 roll over for all of this from like the lighter fare of this which obviously has
0:39:54 very real implications for New York City politics and national politics even but
0:39:57 that they’re scared of what this administration is going to be asking
0:40:03 them to do like Pam Bondi will see us all as folks that are ready to just line
0:40:08 up and rubber stamp whatever is to come and they can’t help the fact even though
0:40:13 Bondi was one of the lesser controversial nominees which just speaks to how
0:40:18 crazy the set of nominees were but you know Pam Bondi was all in on the 2020
0:40:23 election was rigged out there front and center on that and to me it felt like a
0:40:30 little bit of a cry for help or at least a signal of like we can’t be there for
0:40:34 whatever they are going to try because they’ve spent so much time bemoaning
0:40:39 quote-unquote lawfare and it is very clear that they are looking to weaponize
0:40:44 everything back for their own benefit yeah and we also had a US trainee down
0:40:48 here and and Louisiana who quit I think that there are a lot of those warning
0:40:51 sense happening in this guy the character that I’ve been watching closely in
0:40:55 this thing is this I kind of hate saying his name and Neil Bove kind of when
0:40:58 it come like Amel Bove I don’t know it’s kind of a pretentious
0:41:05 for name for one for a maga but anyway Bove was the person who in this
0:41:09 assumed letter I think the most powerful thing was like in the first footnote
0:41:13 where she was like someone was taking notes in the meeting where they told us
0:41:17 that they’re gonna you know about the deal on the prosecution and he collected
0:41:22 the notes at the end of the meeting which is like no note taking which you
0:41:26 know feels very fascistic the oh also kind of dumb sort of and I guess a lot
0:41:30 of times fascism is dumb like dumb bad it’s like okay well the notes are gone
0:41:33 but I prefer it when it’s dumb because at least we can talk about it he took
0:41:39 away the notes yeah and so but he’s the same guy who is at the center of the
0:41:42 FBI firings right and there’s a whistleblower and if you saw that over the
0:41:46 weekend where you know they were saying that Cash Patel lied during his
0:41:51 confirmation hearing because you know the note taking in that meeting the FBI
0:41:56 meeting said that Bove had said that Cash Patel had and Stephen Miller were
0:42:01 the ones that were asking for this so they have this like kind of henchmen in at
0:42:08 the DOJ and so I think that it is pretty it is good that you know because
0:42:11 there’s always this debate right like should people like this stay would we
0:42:16 rather have Hagin Scott and in there than whoever replaces them and and I
0:42:22 think that in my view it’s actually better for these folks to you know kick
0:42:26 up a cloud of dust here and like draw attention to this person so people can
0:42:30 watch it so it’s not like happening you know behind the scenes and cloak and
0:42:34 dagger yeah though you do need good people to stay I said a couple weeks ago
0:42:39 that we’re it’s going to require thousands of Mike Pence’s to make it
0:42:43 through whatever is to come over the course of the next four years so I
0:42:47 agree with you and I think it’s also matters that this is happening so early
0:42:52 on I can’t believe we’re only in the beginning of the fourth week of this but
0:42:58 we are going to need people who are interested in the rule of law in a
0:43:02 traditional sense not in the rule of law just because I said so and Napoleonic
0:43:07 slash Trump terms to reference his weekend tweeting which did not feel like
0:43:11 him at all I don’t know that felt more must here’s the thing that made it me
0:43:15 think it might be him I was reading an article and that quote is actually from
0:43:21 a movie called Waterloo that’s not from Napoleon and then it’s like it’s
0:43:29 accredited yeah like the direct quote is from Waterloo the movie the movie is in
0:43:34 1970 and that to me like feels like it could be a Trump cultural reference like
0:43:38 he might have watched a 1970s movie about Napoleon like that feels like the
0:43:41 thing he might have watched but maybe not I don’t know that was the only because I
0:43:47 agreed with you initially it did feel musky but or somebody or Stephen Miller
0:43:54 like someone got control of the of the phone for a second I don’t want to
0:44:00 belabor that Adam stuff that much but part of the deal that I guess he’s made
0:44:03 but she claims he hasn’t made a deal with the administration but it’s quite
0:44:07 obvious since he had to sit on the Fox and Friends couch and be humiliated by
0:44:14 Tom Homan a couple days ago but is that they’ll be easing or he’s going to try
0:44:19 to use sanctuary city laws as it applies to Rikers and the way that sanctuary
0:44:25 city policy works in New York is that ice can’t be near the prisons and the
0:44:30 reason that that’s the case is not necessarily that we don’t want criminals
0:44:35 to be deported but it’s because they could pick up people who haven’t actually
0:44:39 been convicted yet people who have just been charged and not gone through their
0:44:44 due process which they’re entitled to and you have any views kind of thinking
0:44:50 about the macro issue that I think liberals are finding themselves in is
0:44:56 having been way too lax about illegal migration and even too lax on people who
0:45:01 are here illegally and then committing violent crimes on how we should be
0:45:07 approaching sanctuary policy so my viewpoint which is I think different
0:45:10 from some of from like kind of the conventional wisdom among Democratic
0:45:18 strategists is that like maybe like in February of 2025 like the right thing to
0:45:23 do is to fight these guys tooth and nail and to figure out what happened and
0:45:28 figure out with how things shake out and in 2026 summer you can decide to be
0:45:31 strategic and like figure out which issues are the right ones for the for
0:45:34 the electorate like we don’t fucking know what’s gonna happen over the next
0:45:40 year so just fight him and try to make him fail my exception to that is like on
0:45:43 some of these like there are a couple of policies for these two Democrats like
0:45:48 obviously got out way too far to the left away from public opinion and I just I
0:45:54 do think sanctuary cities is one of them I’m so like I was like the
0:45:57 compassionate conservative Bush Republican I was I’m like about as liberal
0:46:02 on immigration as you can get to like I was part of the group of Republicans that
0:46:06 the Republican voters wanted to overthrow and like the kind of McCain view of
0:46:12 the world immigration so like I am extremely sympathetic to immigrants
0:46:18 and the plight of immigrants who are fleeing you know oppression or fleeing
0:46:22 whatever and want to come to America that’s what America is about like that
0:46:26 said like some of the sanctuary you know like some of the sanctuary city stuff
0:46:30 it just got overboard it was just kind of crazy like and I understand there might
0:46:34 be like a specific reason why it makes sense to not have ice in the prisons
0:46:42 but I just think that like fighting over whether prisoner illegal migrants who
0:46:48 committed crimes in this country should be deported is like maybe one of the
0:46:52 fights out say I think you can take a pass on this one I should that if you’re
0:46:59 with Democrats so that would be that that’s my view on that yeah it’s
0:47:01 definitely the way that a lot of Democrats feel you and you already
0:47:05 reference John Federman or you’d be like why are you wasting my time with this
0:47:09 right this is you’re in a privileged position that you got to be here
0:47:17 illegally in the first place and you can just see the next iteration of the
0:47:22 Charlemagne ad about giving transgender surgeries for undocumented people in
0:47:26 prison being written about something like this it doesn’t change the fact that
0:47:31 the city council has to be the ones to revise sanctuary city laws but I tend
0:47:35 to agree with you that kicking up a massive fuss about it probably just
0:47:40 allows Trump and co to continue to say that we’re so out of step with where
0:47:44 culture is here’s the other thing they are gonna overstep on immigration so
0:47:47 here’s the area where I would say Democrats do not like don’t need to be
0:47:53 over cautious right like people do not want dreamers to be deported right like
0:47:57 people don’t want that people don’t want like people who are in this country you
0:48:01 know whose parents brought them to this country when their kids you know to be
0:48:04 deported or to be separated from their families and there are already a couple
0:48:09 of examples of like very sympathetic individuals who are being either
0:48:14 detained by ICE like one like there’s like a guy in Newark who is a veteran who
0:48:22 is like detained by ICE and so I think that there are going to be ways to fight
0:48:27 immigration you know immigration from a humanitarian standpoint that are
0:48:31 beneficial for Democrats and they should choose those fights rather than
0:48:35 fighting over whether prison deportations happen or not under the
0:48:38 administration. Yeah that leads me to something I’ve been thinking about in
0:48:44 general about like where Democrats show up and stand up and amplifying stories
0:48:50 like that on a local level versus in DC I mean DC unless you know unless you
0:48:54 represent Virginia or Maryland like I don’t think any of this should be going
0:48:58 on in DC I think you need to be back with your people and talking about stories
0:49:01 like that there was another one in Milwaukee which I talked about on the
0:49:06 five and rarely do my colleagues just shut up but they were like oh my god
0:49:12 that happened where they took in a toddler a mom and a grandmother for
0:49:16 speaking Spanish and someone had to come with birth certificates they were
0:49:21 Puerto Rican to get them out of the detention center and the idea of a
0:49:26 two-year-old in a detention center for allegedly you know where we’re going to
0:49:31 be holding people that have committed violent crimes and were here illegally
0:49:36 when they’re Americans and did nothing but speak another language seemed to hit
0:49:41 the audience hard and so yeah and this is to me and this is what I would say
0:49:46 local is fine but what you’re doing is I think probably the most useful like on
0:49:51 Fox and on conservative media platforms and on culturally conservative
0:49:56 platforms again like people have this totally wrong view of what like the
0:50:02 manasphere podcasters think about all this stuff yeah like you give specific
0:50:06 examples like the ones you’re giving like they’re 80% issues like people do
0:50:13 not want most people besides racist and like extreme you know far-right freaks
0:50:18 do not want people detained for speaking Spanish in this country like that is not
0:50:23 something that is popular actually and so if you can focus on a couple of those
0:50:28 examples and bring them in to the lion’s den I think that is like a use a much
0:50:33 more useful way to spend time than having a press conference on the hill and
0:50:37 at Jared Moskowitz I saw was on Fox over the weekend I just think that like more
0:50:43 is more on this I obviously agree with you and that’s always great when I see
0:50:49 others showing up not even necessarily to get the clickbait that worked in 2016
0:50:52 you know how everything was just about owning the other side and there were
0:50:57 those huge fights now it’s like showing up and being reasonable makes even more
0:51:01 of a difference because people’s partisan lines have been completely
0:51:05 scrambled right you can’t predict it anymore in the same way and so if you
0:51:10 show up like Jared Moskowitz did and you sound reasonable about immigration you
0:51:13 know he was one of the first ones to say let me in the doge caucus for instance
0:51:17 but then you hold the line about stuff that really matters and it gets
0:51:21 amplified like that because he was on you know on primetime they love it
0:51:25 they’re gonna get the clip out into their ether we’ll get their clip out
0:51:28 into our ether and suddenly you know Jared Moskowitz is president yeah
0:51:32 well that’s ups to God’s ears but yeah the prime example of this that I saw
0:51:36 recently was Zelensky did the Lex Friedman interview Lex Friedman and like
0:51:40 if you just look at the comments on Lex Friedman’s YouTube which is like he is
0:51:44 he’s like Magan the Muskway right like he is like contrarian or whatever he’s
0:51:47 not like a far-right he’s not like a social conservative you know what I mean
0:51:53 like he’s like a contrarian so he’s in that sort of ecosystem and so it’s like
0:51:56 that is a mostly anti-ukrain ecosystem Zelensky does the interview and like
0:51:59 there were a lot of people in the comments so we’re just kind of like huh
0:52:05 like oh I was expecting to hate him a lot more or he made a couple you know like
0:52:09 so anyway it’s worth doing that or even people with that in interview in
0:52:14 particular who are big Lex Friedman people but thought like he went too far
0:52:18 in pushing him to say that Russia should get to keep territory that they
0:52:22 obviously illegally took I thought that was even if it was just for that sound
0:52:27 bite that it was worth the three hours of Zelensky’s time to do it I want to get
0:52:33 to kind of the future of the anti-trump Republican faction but quickly are you
0:52:39 pro Cuomo anti Cuomo because he did you see the ad he released the Valentine’s
0:52:45 Day ad where he’s with all of these older women mostly women of color talking
0:52:49 about how tough it is right now for New Yorkers and that but we can always find
0:52:54 a way forward and that the opposite of hate the four letter word that matters
0:53:00 most is love I think it was the phraseology I am I’m anti Cuomo I think
0:53:05 that he he handled COVID atrociously in addition to just all of his personal
0:53:10 misdeeds I maybe have some personal bias I’ve got some friends who are in who
0:53:17 were in conflict with Andrew Cuomo let’s just say and so I think he’s kind of a
0:53:25 creep I will say though like Democrats need more people that like quote that
0:53:31 who are like Cuomo who talk normal and he talks Italian but like you can tell
0:53:35 he’s being authentically himself he doesn’t talk like a fucking valedictorian
0:53:42 kid that’s trying to appease the bosses in a PowerPoint presentation and I
0:53:47 think that Democrats could learn from that and I don’t you know I don’t I’m
0:53:52 no fan of his in particular but I think the data is people want it and I won’t
0:53:56 I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s successful in the mayor’s race yeah it’s
0:54:00 pretty crazy to think about but the amount of normie Democrats that I know
0:54:05 who don’t like Cuomo for a whole host of reasons whether it’s you know the
0:54:12 sexual harassment charges or even the management of COVID and lost people in
0:54:17 nursing homes and just really wanted an apology for him that he couldn’t get out
0:54:21 there just couldn’t muster the strength to say I would have done things a little
0:54:25 bit differently which I think would have gone a tremendously long way they’re
0:54:31 like I could use a competent gangster right now like the city is in shitty
0:54:36 trouble at this point I hate being on the subway and he feels like when you
0:54:40 look at Adams on the other side of this and you think I’m not gonna go for
0:54:45 someone as progressive as like Scott Stringer that he might be the answer
0:54:56 woof all right one more but one more quick break stay with us
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0:57:15 welcome back before we wrap and we’ve already been touching this a little bit
0:57:19 but I want to get into it more deeply with you and there aren’t that many
0:57:23 Republicans openly pushing back and Trump’s agenda these days Mitch McConnell
0:57:26 for instance was the lone Republican to vote against confirming Tulsi Gabbard
0:57:30 an RFK junior and Tim you pointed out on the bullet work that even the Wall
0:57:34 Street Journal’s editorial board usually a pretty Trump-friendly finally took a
0:57:39 shot at his economic policies what do you think is the future for the anti-Trump
0:57:45 Republicans in a party that seems like they’ve given up a bit besides an
0:57:50 editorial or two yeah there’s no future yeah there’s no future there’s no
0:57:56 present I I felt like I felt this way for a while it’s I’ll give you a little
0:57:59 scoop I don’t know if this is a scoop anybody cares about me would would
0:58:02 care about that’s nobody else would but like I was planning on writing a book
0:58:07 that was about you know that was the shorthand pitch for it was Trump is
0:58:11 forever that I just like I felt like that that the MAGA that the Republican
0:58:16 voters want Trump or something like it right like whatever comes after Trump if
0:58:22 he ever goes away you know will obviously not be a carbon copy of him
0:58:27 because he has like a lot of unique traits and he’s an eccentricities and
0:58:30 like it’s you know you’ve seen how hard it is to copy him at the local level and
0:58:36 how that has failed in other ways with you know Kerry Lake and others but but
0:58:42 directionally like the idea that of America first of fighting these culture
0:58:49 war battles of not caring about norms and institutions and you know not caring
0:58:53 about like the traditional you know free markets and free people ethos of the
0:58:58 80s and 90s two thousand Republicans like all of that is gone right and it was
0:59:03 already going to be gone even if Kamala Harris had won because that’s just what
0:59:08 that parties are just parties are not actually permanent coherent ideological
0:59:14 groups they are a reflection of a group of people and that group of people can
0:59:17 change over time and I might change them up might change then the nature of the
0:59:23 party and Trump has massively changed the makeup of the Republican Party and as
0:59:29 a result it will be in his image for at least you know until the next realignment
0:59:32 for probably a quarter century or something so I just think that is what’s
0:59:36 happening I think that there will be individual fights on the on the on the
0:59:39 outskirts right like you mentioned this Wall Street Journal article which was an
0:59:43 attack on him over tariffs and and pushing for lower interest rates given
0:59:48 threats for inflation you know if we get into a more normal future in 2028 where
0:59:51 Trump doesn’t try to run again and like you know there’s a primary there will be
0:59:55 some people who are like Trumpy or pro-tariff and there’ll be some people
0:59:58 who are more traditional free market conservative on trade and and on some of
1:00:04 those issues you know it won’t always fall on the Trump side of the line I
1:00:07 think that there will still be skirmish little skirmishes in the ideological
1:00:13 coalition but directionally things are to Trump and I and people nobody is gonna
1:00:17 stand up to him except for people like Mitch McConnell who are already one foot
1:00:22 out the door and that’s basically seen for like a decade now do you have any
1:00:29 idea about what happened during these confirmations to people like Lisa
1:00:34 Murkowski Susan Collins Todd Young in Indiana or I should say from Indiana who
1:00:41 was really anti-tulsi for instance I mean is it straight like doxxing
1:00:45 threatening you with a primary like Bill Cassidy already voted to convict him so
1:00:52 I don’t this idea that he promised Cassidy to essentially RFK Jr. to not be
1:00:56 who he is right and to say you can be my dad and you can check in on me every day
1:01:00 and make sure that I’m not gonna do these things when even the CDC site
1:01:04 already has information about the flu down so obviously that’s not gonna hold
1:01:14 up like what level of threatening or trolling was going on to make people
1:01:18 like this lay down and vote for every single one of these nominees yeah and
1:01:23 the Joni Ernst thing with eggs that was the was really you know I think the test
1:01:27 case yeah what are the tip for this I mean I was in I so I worked in Iowa in a
1:01:33 couple campaigns I was in Iowa like during when all this was happening it was
1:01:38 like about and I was like at an event with a lot of Republicans and and you
1:01:42 know it was like in between when she had spoken out and when she had kind of
1:01:46 fooled it right and there to us to a person I could not find a person at
1:01:49 this event that thought she was gonna hold the line eventually and there were
1:01:52 some very pro Joni people there right and and to people who like her and wish
1:01:55 she would have held the line I got across the board Maga to people who are
1:02:03 like me who are who are lapsed everybody thought no because the voters wanted you
1:02:08 know want Trump to get what he wants like that’s what they want and so she
1:02:12 was just getting totally bullied online phone calls and I think the other
1:02:16 senators really saw that I think in addition to that I do think these
1:02:19 private meetings Trump and then basically said to the nominees just tell
1:02:22 these people whatever they want to hear who cares we’ll figure it out on the
1:02:26 back end right again because these are not rigid ideologues like it’s it’s does
1:02:33 not what Trump is so I think that helped you know give a rationale to some of
1:02:38 these senators to do the easy thing and I also just I just fundamentally don’t
1:02:42 think anybody was gonna actually stand up besides McConnell who’s one step out
1:02:45 the door and Rikowski and Collins will choose their spots because they have
1:02:50 kind of a different sort of brand everybody else I was with Gates at a
1:02:55 TPS I go to the TPS a annual gathering every year to just kind of well you live
1:02:59 in Fox world I don’t I want to make sure I’m not in my little bubble my little
1:03:05 resistance you know form feels like a very place to test it out no it’s fine
1:03:09 the types of people go to those sorts of things are the people you got to worry
1:03:11 about are the people who are alone in their basement getting radicalized
1:03:15 honestly like people that show up to a gathering I’ve at least I found them to
1:03:19 be relatively sociable I had a few people shit talk me but but I never felt
1:03:23 unsafe they’re not bad to your face I’ve always found everyone is like I feel so
1:03:27 terrible that I’ve been calling you the c-word online for three years and I’m
1:03:31 like well stop doing that and I’m so nice do you want a picture that’s
1:03:35 hilarious so anyway I was with Gates and I was like why did you drop like I was
1:03:40 like because I think that you are gonna get through and Gates was like well John
1:03:47 Curtis the guy from Utah who replaced Mitt told me and I wasn’t it wasn’t an
1:03:50 interview so I wasn’t taping outside forget the exact line but it was little
1:03:54 it was something like I would sacrifice my children before I would confirm you
1:03:58 it was some like very ostentatious comment about and so Gates was like I
1:04:02 didn’t think you know it was clear I was gonna get through and I said to him I
1:04:06 was like Curtis would have folded and I like really think I’m right about that
1:04:10 like I do I do think that there is a lot of behind-the-scenes people you know
1:04:13 trying to use a little influence they can without creating and get any
1:04:18 backlash like when push comes to shove like the voters are where their voters
1:04:24 are and so like that is why you’re not saying anybody like the top young so the
1:04:30 world actually stand up yeah I’m popular opinion but I don’t think that you have
1:04:34 to do everything that the voters want like they picked a person who can also
1:04:38 think for themselves who broadly represents their interests right and
1:04:42 understands their constituency but can’t think for themselves so if you pick you
1:04:48 know one of 15 people that you don’t think is unqualified for to kind of lay
1:04:53 down your marker in the sand and say your children will be vaccinated or we
1:04:57 will not have someone who thinks Assad wasn’t really that bad that that might
1:05:03 be good for you long-term but I’m also not running for public opinion me I say
1:05:06 that to the Republicans I talked to all the time and fewer and fewer of them
1:05:10 actually want to talk to me so you know maybe that’s part of my why my
1:05:14 influence isn’t working but I’m like you don’t have to be me I’m not asking
1:05:20 Republican senators or congressmen to troll Trump online you know to try to
1:05:26 own him you know to like fight everything like there’s a huge space between me and
1:05:31 like total submission and it’s just like they’ve kind of decided to abandon that
1:05:36 whole space like there’s just nobody that has decided to try to occupy that and
1:05:39 succeed and I think that’s wrong I do I think people could I mean Collins I
1:05:44 guess as the as the example as the example like I don’t really love Susan
1:05:47 Collins everything that she’s done but she did manage to occupy that space in
1:05:51 between total never-trumper and total Trump’s sycophant and it worked for her
1:05:55 she was like the only senator well this cycle a couple happened but before you
1:05:59 know during the first Trump she was the only senator that won and went the
1:06:05 opposite way as the state you know in 2016 and 2020 yeah you’re saying that I
1:06:14 wasted my dollars on Sarah Gideon no I don’t know if you gave any money to
1:06:23 Jamie Harrison no I have a friend who is a doctor and loves politics but isn’t in
1:06:26 the day-to-day insanity she’ll send me like a New York Times article the day
1:06:30 after and she’ll be like can you believe this and I’m like I need to talk to you
1:06:33 about how fast the news cycle goes but she’ll regularly send me a link to
1:06:37 various Democrats and she goes worth my money I’m like well how much money like
1:06:42 if you want it if you want to be spreading $10 all over the place go
1:06:48 ahead for it but Amy McGrath is never gonna be the senator that takes a Mitch
1:06:52 McConnell seat okay thank you so much for being here that’s it for this
1:06:57 episode thank you for joining us Tim and the raging moderates crew our
1:07:01 producers are David Toledo and Chinane Onike our technical director is Drew
1:07:05 Burroughs you can now find Raging Moderates on its own feed every Tuesday
1:07:09 that’s right it’s own feed there you’ll get exclusive interviews with smart
1:07:13 voices and politics like our latest guest congressman Pat Ryan follow us
1:07:18 wherever you get your podcasts also follow Tim in all of Bulwark world and
1:07:21 thank you for being with us well just me Scott’s not here but he loves you from
1:07:28 afar I loved it good to be here we’ll do that again soon peace bye
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0:01:15 behold my name is Maximus entertain us and I come to you with big stars in big
0:01:22 dramas like gladiator to Dexter original sin and 1923 stream paramount plus for
0:01:28 699 a month welcome to raging moderates I’m Jessica Tarlow I’m Tim Miller Tim
0:01:34 this is the banter section how are you hey banter I’m just happy to be in here
0:01:39 for Scott you know I think that I’m gonna be a downgrade in certain manners and
0:01:44 upgrade in hair you know we’ll see what the what the people think we will see
0:01:46 what the people think I think they’ll be excited to see if they were super
0:01:49 excited when you joined us but we were together all three of us it was fun it’s
0:01:54 good I mean I’d rather be raging with you guys than I don’t maybe you have a
0:01:58 view on this I think not raging with the dams on the hill I don’t I’m not
0:02:03 feeling a raging yes no democratic snoozing yeah I’d rather be raging with
0:02:09 the moderates than snoozing with the progs heavy for the banter section no
0:02:13 no I’m good with it you want to talk about Marty ground times no I don’t want
0:02:16 to talk about I mean if you want to talk about Marty ground hiding in your
0:02:23 house we could do that but do you really think that they’re snoozing or we’re not
0:02:28 paying attention it’s a good question I think that they are doing a lot of stuff
0:02:35 that people who are who read hill newsletters and who like care and who
0:02:39 know a lot about what’s happening in the federal government I think they are
0:02:46 seeing Democrats I think that anyone who’s a casual observer of politics is
0:02:51 seeing only Donald Trump and Yvonne Musk and Travis and Taylor I think that’s
0:02:54 like the material that they’re giving and so I don’t know if they’re
0:02:59 snoozing so much as they’re not yelling you know and I feel like they could
0:03:04 probably benefit from some yelling that resonates outside of yelling is the
0:03:12 trick for that one because I have seen some yelling and I have hated it in the
0:03:18 right kind of context you know I’m open to singing and chance but you know maybe
0:03:23 maybe we could work on the language of the chance a little bit yeah we’re
0:03:27 getting lapsed by the YMCA so you got to think about that we’ve given I the gays
0:03:30 gave away YMCA well you don’t even want it back I know I made it official it was
0:03:34 a long it was not a you know it was it was not a battle in the culture where
0:03:39 we expected but it was a battle that was thrust upon us and I think for a
0:03:44 moment during the Biden era we had felt like we’d taken YMCA back from the
0:03:49 magas and unfortunately I think that is one L we just have to take it’s over now
0:03:54 and the village people in YMCA despite the fact that that is a song about
0:03:58 cruising in gay gyms the magas have taken it from us and I don’t think we’re
0:04:01 ever gonna get it back it’s unfortunate I don’t think you’re gonna hear a lot of
0:04:07 YMCA at gay pride this year no probably not abracadabra by Lady Gaga instead I
0:04:09 think you’ll be hearing a lot of abracadabra it’s a pretty good upgrade I
0:04:14 think so did you watch any of the SNL 50 stuff I was in and out I was watching
0:04:19 White Lotus and I was you know podcast prepping so I caught a little bit of it
0:04:24 I really liked a couple of the Eddie Murphy segments Eddie Murphy being
0:04:30 Tracy Morgan was hilarious Eddie Murphy doing some borderline inappropriate
0:04:34 prison rape jokes with Will Ferrell and like one of the very last segments I
0:04:38 also really liked those are my big takeaways prison rape is always a
0:04:43 highlight I said multiple times to my husband that I can’t believe this show
0:04:47 is happening like if it weren’t the SNL 50 there’s no way these jokes would have
0:04:50 made it in but I’m pretty sure everybody showed up and they were like we are not
0:04:55 playing by 2025 standards we’re playing by whatever year we were actually on the
0:05:01 show and it was a lot of it was hilarious but I was overwhelmed by
0:05:05 Cher I don’t know if you saw these shots of like Kevin Costner losing his mind
0:05:10 and Billy Crystal watching this 78-year-old woman look like a 30-year-old
0:05:14 woman belting out if I could turn back time which I think the gaze still we
0:05:24 still have and now to the show and I’m keeping us on time which is not Scott
0:05:29 strong suit so how’d I do in the banters I think you did great I don’t know we’ll
0:05:33 see okay so in today’s episode of raging moderates we are discussing Trump’s plan
0:05:37 to end the war in Ukraine Trump’s lifeline to Eric Adams and the state of
0:05:42 anti-Trump Republicans your specialty all right let’s get into it big moves on
0:05:46 the world stage last week Trump says he had a highly productive call with
0:05:50 Vladimir Putin claiming that they’re now working closely on a Ukraine peace deal
0:05:55 he even floated the idea of a future sit-down with Putin this all came after
0:05:58 Russia released American teacher Mark Fogle which Trump called a quote sign of
0:06:04 good faith meanwhile Kiev is on edge after a drone strike hit Chernobyl just
0:06:07 days after Zelensky asked the US for more aid and in Europe leaders are
0:06:11 scrambling an emergency summit is set for Monday so that’s today so by tomorrow
0:06:15 you may have an update a man fears that Trump’s outreach to Russia is leaving
0:06:19 them isolated UK Prime Minister Kier Starmer called it a once in a
0:06:23 generation security moment vice president JD Vance warned that Russia could face
0:06:27 economic and military pressure if it doesn’t negotiate in good faith but in
0:06:31 Munich he took aim at European leaders instead claiming their real threat isn’t
0:06:35 Russia or China it’s their own policies on free speech and refusal to work with
0:06:40 the hard-right parties in government back at home not much better the White
0:06:43 House is clashing with the press again this time banning an AP reporter from
0:06:48 the Oval Office for refusing to call the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of America the
0:06:53 AP is now accusing the administration of violating the first amendment let’s talk
0:06:59 Ukraine first what do you think the game here is I mean you can start with Pete
0:07:04 Hague Seth’s maiden voyage which did not go well and he’s walking things back
0:07:11 within 24 hours but what do you think Rubio and Trump and Vance want for
0:07:15 Ukraine well as a I guess cradle neocon I don’t know if the neocons exist anymore
0:07:20 I have a ton of thoughts about this I first just really quick because this I
0:07:23 think it’s got lost and I’m obsessed with the crypto element of everything that’s
0:07:27 happening the hostage trade or we’re gonna call it mark Fogel very happy
0:07:33 Fogel’s back that’s great news but what got missed was the person that got let out
0:07:39 on our side was like one of the original crypto scammers who was running a
0:07:46 massive crypto scam that allowed Russia to you know avert sanctions you know by
0:07:50 by paying for things you know using using crypto rather than you know cash and
0:07:54 going through the regular banking system I only say that just because I just
0:07:59 everybody should just like make a mental note of that because I think that the
0:08:04 crypto corruption that is coming over the next four years might end up being one
0:08:08 of the biggest stories that happen bigger than the Trump coin it’s
0:08:11 interesting well it’s related the Trump quite it’s all related right like I
0:08:17 mean I think that that’s how people can manage it well they just say okay we
0:08:21 know he’s a grifter who does things like this but it’s so much bigger than that
0:08:25 and the trade wasn’t publicized at all it took days for anyone to know if we
0:08:30 got if we had to trade anything for Mark Fogel yeah for sure and so obviously
0:08:33 they’re bad people getting traded and all these things like Victor boot got
0:08:36 traded during the Biden administration so I and I’m happy Mark Fogel is home so
0:08:40 it’s like less a commentary on like the particular trade than just like it’s
0:08:43 interesting where the priorities work like that the first Russian person out
0:08:49 is this crypto scammer person doing the deal Steve Whitcoff his son is business
0:08:55 partners with the Trump kids on their crypto scam right so like that’s not a
0:08:59 coincidence all right I’m not I’m not the always sunny guy putting yarn against
0:09:03 the wall here like it’s a pretty direct connection directly to Trump’s pocket so
0:09:10 anyway the broader deal I mean like the sad part about this is that just like we
0:09:13 appear to be on the side of the bad guys I mean I think that JD did some tough
0:09:18 talk but what is happening is we have this meeting in Saudi that you referenced
0:09:23 the Ukrainians aren’t even invited like we’re having a bilateral with the
0:09:29 Russians who invaded Ukraine and who we are sanctioning currently to try to cut
0:09:34 a deal that Ukraine isn’t even at the table for and Europe is having a separate
0:09:37 you know that the Europeans are having a separate meeting at the same time as you
0:09:41 mentioned Kirsten we’re like the UK is out there saying we’re gonna put boots on
0:09:46 the ground if necessary peacekeeping troops to support Ukraine and so like in
0:09:50 this moment like we’re giving some mixed signals from the White House but
0:09:56 directionally most of the signals are that we are sympathetic to the invaders
0:10:01 to the autocrats to the people that are we’re attacking a free democratic
0:10:05 country like this you know whatever you thought bad about American foreign
0:10:11 policy in the past like this is like a massive shift like this is not just a
0:10:15 bad judgment call it’s like it’s the fact that it seems like that we’re
0:10:20 supporting you know the countries that are in conflict with what the American
0:10:25 values have been in the post-World War II era so like at the top level like that
0:10:28 is the thing to me that’s the most striking and when you looked at these
0:10:33 press conferences both Hegseth and Trump can’t remember if answers asked this but
0:10:36 definitely Hegseth and Trump were asked you know as part of these
0:10:40 negotiations what are you asking Russia to give up and neither of them could
0:10:44 answer I get Hegseth gives like a two minutes of gobbledygook because you
0:10:48 know that he couldn’t come up with anything and Trump starts attacking
0:10:52 Europe during the answer to that question and so I think that kind of
0:10:55 tells you all you need to know yeah I think there was something about shooting
0:11:00 values and that you can’t do that and Pete’s answer I can’t really get to
0:11:04 calling him Secretary Hegseth yet I’m still in in Pete mode you and Pete
0:11:13 pals did you guys not drinking buddies we we have socialized but no comment no I
0:11:17 totally agree with you and one thing that’s been sticking out to me is how
0:11:24 quickly everybody has folded from who they were beforehand because at least I
0:11:28 was holding on to the idea I know I know Mike Waltz really well the National
0:11:32 Security Advisor were in a foreign policy group together Marco Rubio has been
0:11:38 very clear about his foreign policy views for a long time and I don’t think
0:11:43 any of either of those two would have ever thought that they would be part of
0:11:48 the deal that was going to essentially tell Ukraine you have no future in NATO
0:11:51 and you’re never getting back your territory I mean even for getting the
0:11:57 pre-2014 lines even from just a few years ago and maybe that speaks to the
0:12:01 awesome power of Trump maybe that speaks to the new realignment within the
0:12:07 Republican Party but I don’t see anyone in positions of power now that are going
0:12:13 to be holding on to traditional American views of foreign policy in our role in
0:12:17 the world no I mean Rubio has been basically a full-throated defender of
0:12:23 the Trump push on this and and that pivot for him has been you know kind of
0:12:28 happening gradually over time since 2016 when he was you know kind of the
0:12:33 candidate that was running you know the most maybe even more than chev like the
0:12:38 most W with like the most Bush compassionate conservatism like type
0:12:43 platform of any of the candidates and so you know no who knows what how things
0:12:49 actually go I guess it’s better that Rubio is there in Saudi Arabia than some
0:12:53 of the other potential people who could be there from the Trump orbit maybe
0:12:57 there are things happening on the margins that matter and like you said
0:13:06 Waltz was a very traditional you know type of you know type of Republican it
0:13:10 is in the house as far as foreign policy is concerned and I interviewed Tom
0:13:14 Malinowski the Democrat from New Jersey last week who’s he’s a pretty kind of
0:13:18 hawkish Democrat and so he was like when I got to Congress I was looking to
0:13:21 Republicans that I could work with like where we might have some overlap on
0:13:26 foreign policy and and he was like Waltz and Stefanik were the two people that I
0:13:30 turned to and and he’s like they’ve you know he’s like it’s just Stefanik is
0:13:35 totally you know gone native with the MAGA and he’s like it appears like Waltz
0:13:40 is doing the same so and we’ll see how things shake out this week but the
0:13:44 signs are not positive and it’s really a sign of kind of submission to the
0:13:48 Trump worldview from all these folks. What do you think is the likelihood that
0:13:52 Zelensky gets his way so he was speaking at the Munich Security Council and he
0:13:56 said we need an armed forces of Europe this is after JD Vance essentially took
0:14:01 a flamethrower to our relationship with Europe in his speech clearly Zelensky
0:14:08 does not see us as the top partner opportunity for him going forward do
0:14:13 you think Europe is really going to unify without us? Yeah I mean I wouldn’t see us
0:14:17 as the top partner opportunity either if I was saying yeah I think Europe will I
0:14:25 think it could be a positive outgrowth of like the Trump worldview the Europe
0:14:32 ends up you know stepping up their game on defense and you know takes more
0:14:35 responsibility and it’s not like I don’t want to say they’re not taking any
0:14:39 responsibility for their own defense but but actually you know you know sort of
0:14:43 takes seriously the act that they might have to go it alone at some point and
0:14:45 you’ve seen this from people and from Europeans at the Munich Security
0:14:50 Conference leader NATO said something to this effect which was pretty Secretary
0:14:54 General rather which is pretty alarming so I think that that’s possibly
0:15:01 positive but like okay that has potential massive negative ramifications
0:15:07 for us you know I mean I was going for this out there was a woman who is a
0:15:13 journalist in Ukraine who whose quote just really kind of dropped me in my
0:15:18 feet over the weekend she wrote she said this her name is Anna Merlekina she’s
0:15:21 from Moria Paul and like had to flee to Kiev she said when you live in a world
0:15:24 that is crumbling under your feet the only thing that helps you survive is to
0:15:27 believe in guidelines and civilized democratic countries that uphold values
0:15:31 when countries like the United States cease to be pillars there’s nothing to
0:15:37 hope for I mean that is like that is a jaw-dropping quote from from somebody
0:15:41 over in Ukraine and I just think that’s reflective of how people in Europe are
0:15:46 gonna see us and I just believe that there’ll be negative ramifications for
0:15:50 that down the line we don’t exactly know how or when but you know I think that
0:15:54 Europe will kind of decide that they should be prepared to go it without us
0:15:58 going back to I guess we we got into ineffective Democrats very early on in
0:16:04 the podcast but I do maybe just because I work in communication I guess that I
0:16:08 always think that there was an opportunity to do better if we had
0:16:14 messaged properly about this and it doesn’t feel like we have made the case
0:16:17 this is Democrats and Republicans like obviously you know Mitch McConnell and
0:16:21 the kind of more traditional sad have been you know screaming from the rooftops
0:16:26 at a low pitch he doesn’t scream so loud anymore at 83 but have been trying to
0:16:30 talk about the importance of keeping together the democratic world order and
0:16:36 that you need to swear countries that share our values and it feels like that
0:16:41 has just fallen on completely deaf ears and that people have moved to this world
0:16:48 where it’s what about me first and can’t see the second order effects if we end up
0:16:52 abandoning Ukraine and so do you think there’s anything we could have done or
0:16:56 this storm which is taking over the world right was there any way to stop this
0:17:00 on this one I’ll let you make fun of the Democrats communications and I’ll take
0:17:04 responsibility for my people because I you do you I think possibly no because of
0:17:12 Iraq honestly like I do think that it was just such a debacle that they’re you
0:17:17 know within the country like there has just become an increased skepticism
0:17:23 from another word like hostility to the idea that we should be involved overseas
0:17:28 in foreign conflicts and I think it’s very complicated to then say okay well
0:17:32 this is not a rock right like Ukraine is different like we don’t have troops on
0:17:36 the ground we’re not trying to do regime change we’re trying to defend an ally and
0:17:41 that helps us because you know if Russia successfully overtakes Ukraine that’s
0:17:46 going to demonstrate weakness you know to the you know rules-based order and
0:17:49 that could cause threats to us down the line right like it’s just it’s a
0:17:55 complicated point to make right especially in in the face of you know
0:18:01 really like pretty bipartisan increasingly like opposition to us
0:18:07 playing this role in the world and so to me the obligation is then like this is
0:18:12 what Trump has unraveled is that there were a number of things that are not
0:18:19 really popular among the whole country that leaders in both parties continued
0:18:23 to do such as USAID because it was the right thing to do and because they were
0:18:29 responsible leaders right and sometimes that is you know required this is not
0:18:34 ancient Greece we don’t we don’t have a direct direct democracy on purpose not
0:18:40 everything should be decided based on 50% plus one vote you know if that is true
0:18:44 I would have never gotten married right like that was a fell as an opposite
0:18:48 opposed vote until the Supreme Court did it right like eventually sometimes
0:18:50 leaders have to do things that are unpopular because they’re the right
0:18:54 thing to do maybe sometimes they get held accountable for that Trump because he
0:18:59 doesn’t care about any of that doesn’t like have really core values or empathy
0:19:04 or care about you know the American idea doesn’t believe that doesn’t believe
0:19:09 that exists only believes their American interests has wiped away all of that and
0:19:15 so I don’t know that the Democrats could have you know just by making their
0:19:22 messaging better you know changed people’s view of this or you know broadly
0:19:25 America’s role when it comes to aid so I mean I think that you could probably
0:19:29 give a few of them some lessons on how to make those arguments better having
0:19:34 watched you on the five and having watched some of them but I don’t know
0:19:37 that it would have actually made the difference in this case it’s just such a
0:19:42 big failure when you think about how core Biden made it to his reason for being
0:19:46 right I mean part of it was I have to get you all through COVID and I can be
0:19:50 America’s grandpa and I’m the most empathetic man you ever met but it was
0:19:55 also like this return to normalcy and you know people’s lived experience was
0:20:00 just so not commensurate with the world that he was talking about that they
0:20:06 were just like a few right I’m out it was a failure and and I don’t and I mean
0:20:12 obviously Biden’s inability to deliver a message I had ramifications like what
0:20:15 you know in this case was it you know was that the key difference I don’t know
0:20:18 but I mean I think it was a problem across multiple verticals and it
0:20:22 relates to the democratic stuff now it just he was not he was absent right and
0:20:25 there was a moment in 2020 where I think people were so fucking sick of the
0:20:29 news and Trump and COVID like the idea that Biden wouldn’t be in their lives
0:20:32 every day was kind of people are like that’s a good thing there really some
0:20:37 people out there that that that was an attractive but like over time as crises
0:20:42 unfolded as inflation happened as the invasion of Ukraine happened as 10
0:20:48 7 happened you know people need somebody that can talk to them right and to
0:20:53 deliver a compelling message and that can you know I demonstrate leadership
0:20:58 traits or demonstrate strength at least and I think that that was like kind of
0:21:01 missing from the last couple years a lot of the last administration I would even
0:21:05 say that the quality of the messaging wouldn’t have mattered as much if it was
0:21:09 happening as more frequently that people actually just want to physically see you
0:21:12 and then their minds run wild and obviously there are people who are
0:21:15 feeding this that are like oh he’s not here because he’s dead but he’ll be
0:21:20 awake at 2 o’clock and then he’s gonna die again I tell you I never
0:21:25 compliment Trump so just so you want but like guy has been ever like there was
0:21:28 this thing on on the left in like resistance world like and during the
0:21:33 campaign that was like Trump is just as old as Biden and Trump’s you know brain
0:21:37 is putting to and like the media it’s so unfair that the media is making the
0:21:41 Biden age thing like the only thing that’s like I can say I don’t think that
0:21:46 is true like Trump gives off crazy energy not old energy like he just does and
0:21:49 since he’s been in there I thought I didn’t know I thought it was an unknown
0:21:54 like could my Trump win and just be so happy that he’s not in jail that he’s
0:21:59 just gonna golf and like go on the NASCAR track which he did and like do fun
0:22:02 stuff do the fun stuff and the accoutrements of the presidency and not
0:22:05 do everything else and that’s been the opposite like he’s given more press
0:22:09 conferences than anybody like dude is like I lose track of all the press
0:22:12 conferences he’s done like I missed one on Friday you know but like he’s
0:22:20 talking to media all the time and I’m like that is how to do it in the modern
0:22:24 media age like and I think that that is something that those of us who oppose
0:22:27 them could could learn from. Yes be everywhere all the time even if they
0:22:31 don’t like you and their feed I have this conversation constantly with people
0:22:35 I’m like oh but the engagement is so mean and they’re like but it’s engagement
0:22:41 like that’s what Trump understands like all the hate comments they’re still
0:22:44 thinking about you you’re still living what did they say like rent-free in your
0:22:49 head I want to talk to you about the AP but just really quickly did you I
0:22:52 shouldn’t say did you make anything because it obviously is a big deal about
0:22:56 the State Department taking down the statement that they that we do not
0:23:02 support Taiwanese independence and like that feels like it’s flying in the face
0:23:05 of the way that we’re moving with Russia because obviously that’s China’s red line
0:23:10 that feels like signature Rubio to me who’s such a big China hawk do you think
0:23:14 anything’s gonna come of this or maybe I’m wrong about this but I kind of just
0:23:18 see Taiwan and going the same path as Ukraine right where there is some
0:23:22 resistance inside the administration that like once you know wants us to be
0:23:25 stronger in that case and that there’s some resistance among the Republicans on
0:23:29 the Hill resistance or but some views among Republicans on the Hill and in
0:23:33 the administration there are more hawkish on Taiwan than Trump’s itself but
0:23:36 Trump was asked about Taiwan at one of his hundred press conferences we were
0:23:40 just talking about recently and he goes on a rant about how they’ve been
0:23:45 stealing our jobs and how you know jobs for the micro the chips need to be
0:23:51 coming back to America and I just if you just looked at the tone of his comments
0:23:55 it didn’t sound like the tone of somebody that’s ready to put American
0:24:01 defense power on the line to protect Taiwan and I just don’t see how a Trump
0:24:06 Vance administration you know who has just laid the groundwork with their
0:24:10 followers that they only care about us first they only care about American
0:24:13 interests first we shouldn’t care about what’s happening on the other side of
0:24:19 the globe I if I if a conflagration happened with China and Taiwan I just
0:24:22 don’t know how they can go to their supporters and be like oh yeah that
0:24:25 actually we need to put in a couple hundred billion here or God forbid
0:24:30 troops or ships or whatever I like I don’t see it Marco might be trying to fool
0:24:33 himself into thinking that Trump sees China differently because it’s a bigger
0:24:39 threat but I I think that if push came to shove we’d see pretty much the same
0:24:42 thing we see from him on Ukraine all right so we’ve got a rogue Rubio moment
0:24:46 that’s that’s how I see it and I think Trump likes that actually too by the way
0:24:50 I will say this I think Trump doesn’t mind if people are confused you know like
0:24:55 his his he is he benefits from us being right and so I think it’s I don’t think
0:24:58 that like he’s like mad at Marco over this I think that he’s like well you know
0:25:03 we’ll keep them on their toes like that’s part of Trump’s mindset and so I my
0:25:08 point is just like if push comes to shove I don’t if I’m she I’m like these
0:25:12 guys aren’t gonna go to battle for Taiwan that would be the bad I’d be making
0:25:16 yeah like let them put whatever they want on their silly website about
0:25:21 cooperation with Taiwan okay moving on to something else sad I I want to talk
0:25:25 about the AP getting banned so they were kicked out of the press briefings and
0:25:30 then they weren’t allowed a photographer and a reporter weren’t allowed on the
0:25:36 presidential plane and there was a big I shouldn’t it feels so lame to say there
0:25:40 was a big explainer because it wasn’t even like a real piece of journalism but
0:25:45 I got a nifty newsletter from Axios talking about the kind of history of
0:25:49 this administration’s objections to the AP and basically they’re mad that the
0:25:57 AP style book has used terms that they hate to liberally like gender DEI
0:26:04 inclusivity etc I’m old enough to remember when the other news stations
0:26:09 stood with Fox News when the Obama administration wasn’t going to let them
0:26:13 in to do a pool briefing with the representative from the administration
0:26:17 and basically ABC NBC CBS they all said if Fox can’t do it then we’re not doing
0:26:20 it and then they let them in begrudgingly but it doesn’t feel like that moment is
0:26:24 happening at all like everyone is bemoaning the fact that the AP is
0:26:29 being excluded but no one is doing anything about it and I mean this feels
0:26:35 like a pretty obvious we a don’t know what the First Amendment means and be we
0:26:38 don’t care and we’re running this like the Wild West
0:26:43 I mean the asymmetry is just so obvious it’s almost like you know it’s like dog
0:26:47 bites man to even mention it like yeah I mean look so in part I actually would
0:26:53 be defensive of the other mainstream outlets like because I think that if ABC
0:26:58 and NBC and CBS said we’re gonna boycott in solidarity with AP I think I feel like
0:27:07 the Trump administration would be like okay peace you know yeah so I don’t you
0:27:10 know I mean that’s like the situation I think everybody should just be aware of
0:27:14 like what time it is and what’s what’s happening out there as far as like the
0:27:17 more interesting part of this I know obviously there’s the First Amendment
0:27:25 threat here but to me is how all in these guys are going on like you know
0:27:29 Patriot what I call patriotic correctness like you know it it’s not
0:27:37 just enough to stop doing you know pro DEI activities they they need to snuff
0:27:44 out anybody that is using words or language that they don’t like right and
0:27:50 to a preposterous extent right like the idea that like everybody has to use the
0:27:55 new name of the Gulf that they just changed one minute ago like it you know
0:28:00 or else they’re gonna be banned is ridiculous right like and in some ways
0:28:03 it’s ridiculous as some of the most extreme things that you see like on the
0:28:09 far left on PC like demanding that people you know use you know use Latinx
0:28:12 or whatever right and so I do wonder if it’s going to backfire on them
0:28:19 eventually I don’t are people really for this like it feels it feels very
0:28:26 mockable so obviously it’s serious but I do think they are like very much being
0:28:31 responsive to something that only like a tiny group of far-right trolls who are
0:28:36 super online actually care about and I don’t know if that’s like a path to
0:28:41 long-term success for the right now I they definitely just want to get in as
0:28:45 many kind of gloating laps early on I think that they know that it just gets
0:28:50 more and more complicated and certainly as we head into special elections and
0:28:53 the midterms and things like that which hopefully Democrats will perform better
0:28:58 than we did so you do think that’s conscious like they’re like hey you
0:29:02 know this isn’t gonna last forever this like gloating honeymoon and so we want
0:29:06 to like rub their face and shit as for as long as possible like and like there’s
0:29:09 like a little bit of that I think they can look to past administrations and say
0:29:13 okay you know your first two years are when you can actually get things done
0:29:17 right they have control of everything they’re definitely trying it on right
0:29:21 to the largest extent possible you know let’s ram through four and a half
0:29:26 trillion in tax cuts like let’s try to cut all of these entitlement programs
0:29:30 now they realize that they’re not going to get their wish list of all of it but
0:29:33 they are at a moment where they’re owning the culture and so I feel like
0:29:37 they’re just taking advantage and saying okay well if we haven’t
0:29:41 grated ourselves to a segment of the American population that wouldn’t have
0:29:46 given us their time at all for eight years ago let’s really go for it and you
0:29:50 can tell that also in the attitude that Caroline Levitt the press secretary has
0:29:56 about everything I mean she’s so haughty and arrogant in the way that she
0:30:00 delivers everything which I listen I wish that I had more of that in me I
0:30:05 wish I didn’t have such a terrible case of imposter symptoms but like to be 27
0:30:11 years old and to walk up there with that you know it’s a fact this is a fact
0:30:16 right or like every man in Gaza is wearing a condom that we paid for well
0:30:23 actually no no that’s not true in Mozambique there are some condoms the
0:30:28 godsend you know and it’s it’s the Trump bravado that if you say it a certain
0:30:34 way there’s at least a good amount of people that are gonna believe you and I
0:30:38 think that they’re living for the moment right it’s like a Yolo administration
0:30:43 at this point and until there are real consequences I think they’re gonna go
0:30:47 for it with everything when the AP is calling Mount Denali, Mount McKinley
0:30:52 right now I mean they’re doing half of the crazy thing I wonder is yours is that
0:30:56 true like your comment about how they’re owning the culture now I can’t figure
0:31:02 this out like is that actually true or does it just kind of feel like it’s true
0:31:06 and or and maybe that’s a distinction without it would I be able to have a
0:31:10 distinction without a difference right but I don’t I’m kind of like is it just
0:31:15 political obsessives who feel this way I mean did people’s lives really just
0:31:18 change like did they change like their mindset on this sort of stuff like
0:31:25 overnight I don’t know well they’re owning infrequent voters that’s true that
0:31:32 are 18 to 40 right that and those are real culture vultures those are people
0:31:35 that are listening to podcasts those are people who are concerned about all of
0:31:41 the dies in our food those are people who are picking schools for their kids to
0:31:46 go to and are disenchanted with the public school system and wanting to get
0:31:50 away from feeling like they have to use gender pronouns on their email
0:31:55 signatures I mean these are real things that folks are thinking about and so I
0:31:58 don’t know if owning the culture is the right way to put it because I still
0:32:04 don’t think that Kid Rock is cooler than Jay-Z that will just never happen but you
0:32:12 can tell I can’t I can’t fight the 40 and I’m 41 in a couple of weeks no but
0:32:15 Kid Rock was on Bill Maher on Friday night and I found the interview really
0:32:19 interesting I mean he was first of all I had forgotten I guess that he played
0:32:24 Obama’s inauguration in 08 and he was like it’s not as if I liked Obama then
0:32:32 you just show up and you do this but he was essentially mocking us for like
0:32:37 liberal leaning people and you knew new to the side of the fence but for freaking
0:32:41 out about everything all the time and I do think that they are owning the
0:32:46 culture by making it clear that majority of people feel like it’s just not that
0:32:52 serious and part of that is a mistake on Democrats part by not making it feel
0:32:57 like it’s that serious in practical ways not like this guy is actually gonna fall
0:33:00 but like this is the way that your checkbook is going to be affected this
0:33:03 is where your kid is going to be affected but like people are walking
0:33:07 around just saying I don’t think politics is that serious and the
0:33:11 Republican side seems like that right now yeah it’s interesting I mean that
0:33:16 goes against you know my entire like like everything in my body wants to
0:33:19 reject that like you know some like things are singers things matter
0:33:25 actually but I do I’m it makes me curious about the Federman kind of model
0:33:30 because he that like that’s kind of what he’s doing basically which is like
0:33:36 mocking like progressive who are like hyperventilating while like just
0:33:40 basically voting with the Democrats all the time and I don’t think that every
0:33:45 Democrat should act like that but I do wonder if there is some potential
0:33:50 efficacy to having a couple of Democrats out there who have more of a
0:33:55 slack or energy to try to break through all right let’s take a quick break stay
0:33:57 with us
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0:36:33 get covered at pac dot blue cross dot ca welcome back mayor Eric Adams just got
0:36:36 a legal lifeline but it came from the most controversial figure in New York
0:36:40 politics Donald Trump the Trump administration’s justice department
0:36:43 dropped Adams’s corruption case but in a city where Trump remains deeply
0:36:48 unpopular that reprieve could be more of a political liability than a win now
0:36:52 Adams is facing accusations of being in Trump’s pocket especially after appearing
0:36:55 alongside Trump’s borders are Tom Homan and making moves that align with the
0:36:59 president’s immigration policies meanwhile the case is dismissal has
0:37:03 sparked a crisis inside Trump’s DOJ a mass resignation of prosecutors
0:37:08 including one who accused DOJ leaders of looking for a quote fool to take the
0:37:15 fall have you been following that’s probably not as closely as me here’s
0:37:18 why I’m into it Hagen Scott and who you know he’s the guy you mentioned who said
0:37:21 that I expect you’ll eventually find someone who’s enough of a fool or a
0:37:28 coward to file your file your motion this guy is like special forces dude who
0:37:34 brown stars whatever I’ll give him a third for this if he only has two but
0:37:40 who clerked for so I believe he was Kavanaugh and Roberts and then Danny
0:37:45 also soon who’s the original person who read the letter to Emil Bove she was
0:37:51 Scalia a Scalia clerk both I mean both like Scott and his letter kind of
0:37:55 subtly implies that he likes Trump I never get exactly how he put up but he
0:37:58 was like I could kind of see the perspective he’s like some people might
0:38:01 be quitting because they’re really upset with this administration like that’s
0:38:04 not me and I kind of see how a businessman could think this was a good
0:38:08 deal it’s just not legal like was that’s like that’s TLDR summary of his
0:38:15 letter and so the fact that it’s these two people who are fed sock folks who are
0:38:20 stepping out that’s Federalist Society for maybe raging moderates audiences are
0:38:31 like conservative legal folks who are just saying no who are like standing up
0:38:35 and saying I’m not gonna go along with this and I think that’s pretty powerful
0:38:38 and it comes at a time when I don’t know at least maybe just maybe just me or
0:38:42 maybe just a bulwark people are like thirsting for people to be showing a
0:38:46 little bit more backbone right now and so I’ve that’s kind of why I’ve been
0:38:50 following it less on like the legal nerd side but just more on this is kind of
0:38:56 how you do it as far as standing up to a liberal actions yeah I mean I was into
0:39:02 it I had been feeling starved I guess for some old-school intellectual
0:39:07 resistance I guess not people out there with a sign you know like hands off my
0:39:14 whatever but I like them but they’re not getting us really anywhere at this
0:39:22 point but it feels like what they’re doing is because it’s a harbinger of bad
0:39:25 things to come so the Adams case itself or at least what we know about it you
0:39:29 would expect more I guess in the indictment he definitely broke the law
0:39:33 and I thought that’s a student’s letter was you know very specific about that
0:39:37 and that does matter to people that are career prosecutors who take the law very
0:39:44 seriously but to me I felt a little bit of a if you think that we’re just gonna
0:39:49 roll over for all of this from like the lighter fare of this which obviously has
0:39:54 very real implications for New York City politics and national politics even but
0:39:57 that they’re scared of what this administration is going to be asking
0:40:03 them to do like Pam Bondi will see us all as folks that are ready to just line
0:40:08 up and rubber stamp whatever is to come and they can’t help the fact even though
0:40:13 Bondi was one of the lesser controversial nominees which just speaks to how
0:40:18 crazy the set of nominees were but you know Pam Bondi was all in on the 2020
0:40:23 election was rigged out there front and center on that and to me it felt like a
0:40:30 little bit of a cry for help or at least a signal of like we can’t be there for
0:40:34 whatever they are going to try because they’ve spent so much time bemoaning
0:40:39 quote-unquote lawfare and it is very clear that they are looking to weaponize
0:40:44 everything back for their own benefit yeah and we also had a US trainee down
0:40:48 here and and Louisiana who quit I think that there are a lot of those warning
0:40:51 sense happening in this guy the character that I’ve been watching closely in
0:40:55 this thing is this I kind of hate saying his name and Neil Bove kind of when
0:40:58 it come like Amel Bove I don’t know it’s kind of a pretentious
0:41:05 for name for one for a maga but anyway Bove was the person who in this
0:41:09 assumed letter I think the most powerful thing was like in the first footnote
0:41:13 where she was like someone was taking notes in the meeting where they told us
0:41:17 that they’re gonna you know about the deal on the prosecution and he collected
0:41:22 the notes at the end of the meeting which is like no note taking which you
0:41:26 know feels very fascistic the oh also kind of dumb sort of and I guess a lot
0:41:30 of times fascism is dumb like dumb bad it’s like okay well the notes are gone
0:41:33 but I prefer it when it’s dumb because at least we can talk about it he took
0:41:39 away the notes yeah and so but he’s the same guy who is at the center of the
0:41:42 FBI firings right and there’s a whistleblower and if you saw that over the
0:41:46 weekend where you know they were saying that Cash Patel lied during his
0:41:51 confirmation hearing because you know the note taking in that meeting the FBI
0:41:56 meeting said that Bove had said that Cash Patel had and Stephen Miller were
0:42:01 the ones that were asking for this so they have this like kind of henchmen in at
0:42:08 the DOJ and so I think that it is pretty it is good that you know because
0:42:11 there’s always this debate right like should people like this stay would we
0:42:16 rather have Hagin Scott and in there than whoever replaces them and and I
0:42:22 think that in my view it’s actually better for these folks to you know kick
0:42:26 up a cloud of dust here and like draw attention to this person so people can
0:42:30 watch it so it’s not like happening you know behind the scenes and cloak and
0:42:34 dagger yeah though you do need good people to stay I said a couple weeks ago
0:42:39 that we’re it’s going to require thousands of Mike Pence’s to make it
0:42:43 through whatever is to come over the course of the next four years so I
0:42:47 agree with you and I think it’s also matters that this is happening so early
0:42:52 on I can’t believe we’re only in the beginning of the fourth week of this but
0:42:58 we are going to need people who are interested in the rule of law in a
0:43:02 traditional sense not in the rule of law just because I said so and Napoleonic
0:43:07 slash Trump terms to reference his weekend tweeting which did not feel like
0:43:11 him at all I don’t know that felt more must here’s the thing that made it me
0:43:15 think it might be him I was reading an article and that quote is actually from
0:43:21 a movie called Waterloo that’s not from Napoleon and then it’s like it’s
0:43:29 accredited yeah like the direct quote is from Waterloo the movie the movie is in
0:43:34 1970 and that to me like feels like it could be a Trump cultural reference like
0:43:38 he might have watched a 1970s movie about Napoleon like that feels like the
0:43:41 thing he might have watched but maybe not I don’t know that was the only because I
0:43:47 agreed with you initially it did feel musky but or somebody or Stephen Miller
0:43:54 like someone got control of the of the phone for a second I don’t want to
0:44:00 belabor that Adam stuff that much but part of the deal that I guess he’s made
0:44:03 but she claims he hasn’t made a deal with the administration but it’s quite
0:44:07 obvious since he had to sit on the Fox and Friends couch and be humiliated by
0:44:14 Tom Homan a couple days ago but is that they’ll be easing or he’s going to try
0:44:19 to use sanctuary city laws as it applies to Rikers and the way that sanctuary
0:44:25 city policy works in New York is that ice can’t be near the prisons and the
0:44:30 reason that that’s the case is not necessarily that we don’t want criminals
0:44:35 to be deported but it’s because they could pick up people who haven’t actually
0:44:39 been convicted yet people who have just been charged and not gone through their
0:44:44 due process which they’re entitled to and you have any views kind of thinking
0:44:50 about the macro issue that I think liberals are finding themselves in is
0:44:56 having been way too lax about illegal migration and even too lax on people who
0:45:01 are here illegally and then committing violent crimes on how we should be
0:45:07 approaching sanctuary policy so my viewpoint which is I think different
0:45:10 from some of from like kind of the conventional wisdom among Democratic
0:45:18 strategists is that like maybe like in February of 2025 like the right thing to
0:45:23 do is to fight these guys tooth and nail and to figure out what happened and
0:45:28 figure out with how things shake out and in 2026 summer you can decide to be
0:45:31 strategic and like figure out which issues are the right ones for the for
0:45:34 the electorate like we don’t fucking know what’s gonna happen over the next
0:45:40 year so just fight him and try to make him fail my exception to that is like on
0:45:43 some of these like there are a couple of policies for these two Democrats like
0:45:48 obviously got out way too far to the left away from public opinion and I just I
0:45:54 do think sanctuary cities is one of them I’m so like I was like the
0:45:57 compassionate conservative Bush Republican I was I’m like about as liberal
0:46:02 on immigration as you can get to like I was part of the group of Republicans that
0:46:06 the Republican voters wanted to overthrow and like the kind of McCain view of
0:46:12 the world immigration so like I am extremely sympathetic to immigrants
0:46:18 and the plight of immigrants who are fleeing you know oppression or fleeing
0:46:22 whatever and want to come to America that’s what America is about like that
0:46:26 said like some of the sanctuary you know like some of the sanctuary city stuff
0:46:30 it just got overboard it was just kind of crazy like and I understand there might
0:46:34 be like a specific reason why it makes sense to not have ice in the prisons
0:46:42 but I just think that like fighting over whether prisoner illegal migrants who
0:46:48 committed crimes in this country should be deported is like maybe one of the
0:46:52 fights out say I think you can take a pass on this one I should that if you’re
0:46:59 with Democrats so that would be that that’s my view on that yeah it’s
0:47:01 definitely the way that a lot of Democrats feel you and you already
0:47:05 reference John Federman or you’d be like why are you wasting my time with this
0:47:09 right this is you’re in a privileged position that you got to be here
0:47:17 illegally in the first place and you can just see the next iteration of the
0:47:22 Charlemagne ad about giving transgender surgeries for undocumented people in
0:47:26 prison being written about something like this it doesn’t change the fact that
0:47:31 the city council has to be the ones to revise sanctuary city laws but I tend
0:47:35 to agree with you that kicking up a massive fuss about it probably just
0:47:40 allows Trump and co to continue to say that we’re so out of step with where
0:47:44 culture is here’s the other thing they are gonna overstep on immigration so
0:47:47 here’s the area where I would say Democrats do not like don’t need to be
0:47:53 over cautious right like people do not want dreamers to be deported right like
0:47:57 people don’t want that people don’t want like people who are in this country you
0:48:01 know whose parents brought them to this country when their kids you know to be
0:48:04 deported or to be separated from their families and there are already a couple
0:48:09 of examples of like very sympathetic individuals who are being either
0:48:14 detained by ICE like one like there’s like a guy in Newark who is a veteran who
0:48:22 is like detained by ICE and so I think that there are going to be ways to fight
0:48:27 immigration you know immigration from a humanitarian standpoint that are
0:48:31 beneficial for Democrats and they should choose those fights rather than
0:48:35 fighting over whether prison deportations happen or not under the
0:48:38 administration. Yeah that leads me to something I’ve been thinking about in
0:48:44 general about like where Democrats show up and stand up and amplifying stories
0:48:50 like that on a local level versus in DC I mean DC unless you know unless you
0:48:54 represent Virginia or Maryland like I don’t think any of this should be going
0:48:58 on in DC I think you need to be back with your people and talking about stories
0:49:01 like that there was another one in Milwaukee which I talked about on the
0:49:06 five and rarely do my colleagues just shut up but they were like oh my god
0:49:12 that happened where they took in a toddler a mom and a grandmother for
0:49:16 speaking Spanish and someone had to come with birth certificates they were
0:49:21 Puerto Rican to get them out of the detention center and the idea of a
0:49:26 two-year-old in a detention center for allegedly you know where we’re going to
0:49:31 be holding people that have committed violent crimes and were here illegally
0:49:36 when they’re Americans and did nothing but speak another language seemed to hit
0:49:41 the audience hard and so yeah and this is to me and this is what I would say
0:49:46 local is fine but what you’re doing is I think probably the most useful like on
0:49:51 Fox and on conservative media platforms and on culturally conservative
0:49:56 platforms again like people have this totally wrong view of what like the
0:50:02 manasphere podcasters think about all this stuff yeah like you give specific
0:50:06 examples like the ones you’re giving like they’re 80% issues like people do
0:50:13 not want most people besides racist and like extreme you know far-right freaks
0:50:18 do not want people detained for speaking Spanish in this country like that is not
0:50:23 something that is popular actually and so if you can focus on a couple of those
0:50:28 examples and bring them in to the lion’s den I think that is like a use a much
0:50:33 more useful way to spend time than having a press conference on the hill and
0:50:37 at Jared Moskowitz I saw was on Fox over the weekend I just think that like more
0:50:43 is more on this I obviously agree with you and that’s always great when I see
0:50:49 others showing up not even necessarily to get the clickbait that worked in 2016
0:50:52 you know how everything was just about owning the other side and there were
0:50:57 those huge fights now it’s like showing up and being reasonable makes even more
0:51:01 of a difference because people’s partisan lines have been completely
0:51:05 scrambled right you can’t predict it anymore in the same way and so if you
0:51:10 show up like Jared Moskowitz did and you sound reasonable about immigration you
0:51:13 know he was one of the first ones to say let me in the doge caucus for instance
0:51:17 but then you hold the line about stuff that really matters and it gets
0:51:21 amplified like that because he was on you know on primetime they love it
0:51:25 they’re gonna get the clip out into their ether we’ll get their clip out
0:51:28 into our ether and suddenly you know Jared Moskowitz is president yeah
0:51:32 well that’s ups to God’s ears but yeah the prime example of this that I saw
0:51:36 recently was Zelensky did the Lex Friedman interview Lex Friedman and like
0:51:40 if you just look at the comments on Lex Friedman’s YouTube which is like he is
0:51:44 he’s like Magan the Muskway right like he is like contrarian or whatever he’s
0:51:47 not like a far-right he’s not like a social conservative you know what I mean
0:51:53 like he’s like a contrarian so he’s in that sort of ecosystem and so it’s like
0:51:56 that is a mostly anti-ukrain ecosystem Zelensky does the interview and like
0:51:59 there were a lot of people in the comments so we’re just kind of like huh
0:52:05 like oh I was expecting to hate him a lot more or he made a couple you know like
0:52:09 so anyway it’s worth doing that or even people with that in interview in
0:52:14 particular who are big Lex Friedman people but thought like he went too far
0:52:18 in pushing him to say that Russia should get to keep territory that they
0:52:22 obviously illegally took I thought that was even if it was just for that sound
0:52:27 bite that it was worth the three hours of Zelensky’s time to do it I want to get
0:52:33 to kind of the future of the anti-trump Republican faction but quickly are you
0:52:39 pro Cuomo anti Cuomo because he did you see the ad he released the Valentine’s
0:52:45 Day ad where he’s with all of these older women mostly women of color talking
0:52:49 about how tough it is right now for New Yorkers and that but we can always find
0:52:54 a way forward and that the opposite of hate the four letter word that matters
0:53:00 most is love I think it was the phraseology I am I’m anti Cuomo I think
0:53:05 that he he handled COVID atrociously in addition to just all of his personal
0:53:10 misdeeds I maybe have some personal bias I’ve got some friends who are in who
0:53:17 were in conflict with Andrew Cuomo let’s just say and so I think he’s kind of a
0:53:25 creep I will say though like Democrats need more people that like quote that
0:53:31 who are like Cuomo who talk normal and he talks Italian but like you can tell
0:53:35 he’s being authentically himself he doesn’t talk like a fucking valedictorian
0:53:42 kid that’s trying to appease the bosses in a PowerPoint presentation and I
0:53:47 think that Democrats could learn from that and I don’t you know I don’t I’m
0:53:52 no fan of his in particular but I think the data is people want it and I won’t
0:53:56 I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s successful in the mayor’s race yeah it’s
0:54:00 pretty crazy to think about but the amount of normie Democrats that I know
0:54:05 who don’t like Cuomo for a whole host of reasons whether it’s you know the
0:54:12 sexual harassment charges or even the management of COVID and lost people in
0:54:17 nursing homes and just really wanted an apology for him that he couldn’t get out
0:54:21 there just couldn’t muster the strength to say I would have done things a little
0:54:25 bit differently which I think would have gone a tremendously long way they’re
0:54:31 like I could use a competent gangster right now like the city is in shitty
0:54:36 trouble at this point I hate being on the subway and he feels like when you
0:54:40 look at Adams on the other side of this and you think I’m not gonna go for
0:54:45 someone as progressive as like Scott Stringer that he might be the answer
0:54:56 woof all right one more but one more quick break stay with us
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0:57:15 welcome back before we wrap and we’ve already been touching this a little bit
0:57:19 but I want to get into it more deeply with you and there aren’t that many
0:57:23 Republicans openly pushing back and Trump’s agenda these days Mitch McConnell
0:57:26 for instance was the lone Republican to vote against confirming Tulsi Gabbard
0:57:30 an RFK junior and Tim you pointed out on the bullet work that even the Wall
0:57:34 Street Journal’s editorial board usually a pretty Trump-friendly finally took a
0:57:39 shot at his economic policies what do you think is the future for the anti-Trump
0:57:45 Republicans in a party that seems like they’ve given up a bit besides an
0:57:50 editorial or two yeah there’s no future yeah there’s no future there’s no
0:57:56 present I I felt like I felt this way for a while it’s I’ll give you a little
0:57:59 scoop I don’t know if this is a scoop anybody cares about me would would
0:58:02 care about that’s nobody else would but like I was planning on writing a book
0:58:07 that was about you know that was the shorthand pitch for it was Trump is
0:58:11 forever that I just like I felt like that that the MAGA that the Republican
0:58:16 voters want Trump or something like it right like whatever comes after Trump if
0:58:22 he ever goes away you know will obviously not be a carbon copy of him
0:58:27 because he has like a lot of unique traits and he’s an eccentricities and
0:58:30 like it’s you know you’ve seen how hard it is to copy him at the local level and
0:58:36 how that has failed in other ways with you know Kerry Lake and others but but
0:58:42 directionally like the idea that of America first of fighting these culture
0:58:49 war battles of not caring about norms and institutions and you know not caring
0:58:53 about like the traditional you know free markets and free people ethos of the
0:58:58 80s and 90s two thousand Republicans like all of that is gone right and it was
0:59:03 already going to be gone even if Kamala Harris had won because that’s just what
0:59:08 that parties are just parties are not actually permanent coherent ideological
0:59:14 groups they are a reflection of a group of people and that group of people can
0:59:17 change over time and I might change them up might change then the nature of the
0:59:23 party and Trump has massively changed the makeup of the Republican Party and as
0:59:29 a result it will be in his image for at least you know until the next realignment
0:59:32 for probably a quarter century or something so I just think that is what’s
0:59:36 happening I think that there will be individual fights on the on the on the
0:59:39 outskirts right like you mentioned this Wall Street Journal article which was an
0:59:43 attack on him over tariffs and and pushing for lower interest rates given
0:59:48 threats for inflation you know if we get into a more normal future in 2028 where
0:59:51 Trump doesn’t try to run again and like you know there’s a primary there will be
0:59:55 some people who are like Trumpy or pro-tariff and there’ll be some people
0:59:58 who are more traditional free market conservative on trade and and on some of
1:00:04 those issues you know it won’t always fall on the Trump side of the line I
1:00:07 think that there will still be skirmish little skirmishes in the ideological
1:00:13 coalition but directionally things are to Trump and I and people nobody is gonna
1:00:17 stand up to him except for people like Mitch McConnell who are already one foot
1:00:22 out the door and that’s basically seen for like a decade now do you have any
1:00:29 idea about what happened during these confirmations to people like Lisa
1:00:34 Murkowski Susan Collins Todd Young in Indiana or I should say from Indiana who
1:00:41 was really anti-tulsi for instance I mean is it straight like doxxing
1:00:45 threatening you with a primary like Bill Cassidy already voted to convict him so
1:00:52 I don’t this idea that he promised Cassidy to essentially RFK Jr. to not be
1:00:56 who he is right and to say you can be my dad and you can check in on me every day
1:01:00 and make sure that I’m not gonna do these things when even the CDC site
1:01:04 already has information about the flu down so obviously that’s not gonna hold
1:01:14 up like what level of threatening or trolling was going on to make people
1:01:18 like this lay down and vote for every single one of these nominees yeah and
1:01:23 the Joni Ernst thing with eggs that was the was really you know I think the test
1:01:27 case yeah what are the tip for this I mean I was in I so I worked in Iowa in a
1:01:33 couple campaigns I was in Iowa like during when all this was happening it was
1:01:38 like about and I was like at an event with a lot of Republicans and and you
1:01:42 know it was like in between when she had spoken out and when she had kind of
1:01:46 fooled it right and there to us to a person I could not find a person at
1:01:49 this event that thought she was gonna hold the line eventually and there were
1:01:52 some very pro Joni people there right and and to people who like her and wish
1:01:55 she would have held the line I got across the board Maga to people who are
1:02:03 like me who are who are lapsed everybody thought no because the voters wanted you
1:02:08 know want Trump to get what he wants like that’s what they want and so she
1:02:12 was just getting totally bullied online phone calls and I think the other
1:02:16 senators really saw that I think in addition to that I do think these
1:02:19 private meetings Trump and then basically said to the nominees just tell
1:02:22 these people whatever they want to hear who cares we’ll figure it out on the
1:02:26 back end right again because these are not rigid ideologues like it’s it’s does
1:02:33 not what Trump is so I think that helped you know give a rationale to some of
1:02:38 these senators to do the easy thing and I also just I just fundamentally don’t
1:02:42 think anybody was gonna actually stand up besides McConnell who’s one step out
1:02:45 the door and Rikowski and Collins will choose their spots because they have
1:02:50 kind of a different sort of brand everybody else I was with Gates at a
1:02:55 TPS I go to the TPS a annual gathering every year to just kind of well you live
1:02:59 in Fox world I don’t I want to make sure I’m not in my little bubble my little
1:03:05 resistance you know form feels like a very place to test it out no it’s fine
1:03:09 the types of people go to those sorts of things are the people you got to worry
1:03:11 about are the people who are alone in their basement getting radicalized
1:03:15 honestly like people that show up to a gathering I’ve at least I found them to
1:03:19 be relatively sociable I had a few people shit talk me but but I never felt
1:03:23 unsafe they’re not bad to your face I’ve always found everyone is like I feel so
1:03:27 terrible that I’ve been calling you the c-word online for three years and I’m
1:03:31 like well stop doing that and I’m so nice do you want a picture that’s
1:03:35 hilarious so anyway I was with Gates and I was like why did you drop like I was
1:03:40 like because I think that you are gonna get through and Gates was like well John
1:03:47 Curtis the guy from Utah who replaced Mitt told me and I wasn’t it wasn’t an
1:03:50 interview so I wasn’t taping outside forget the exact line but it was little
1:03:54 it was something like I would sacrifice my children before I would confirm you
1:03:58 it was some like very ostentatious comment about and so Gates was like I
1:04:02 didn’t think you know it was clear I was gonna get through and I said to him I
1:04:06 was like Curtis would have folded and I like really think I’m right about that
1:04:10 like I do I do think that there is a lot of behind-the-scenes people you know
1:04:13 trying to use a little influence they can without creating and get any
1:04:18 backlash like when push comes to shove like the voters are where their voters
1:04:24 are and so like that is why you’re not saying anybody like the top young so the
1:04:30 world actually stand up yeah I’m popular opinion but I don’t think that you have
1:04:34 to do everything that the voters want like they picked a person who can also
1:04:38 think for themselves who broadly represents their interests right and
1:04:42 understands their constituency but can’t think for themselves so if you pick you
1:04:48 know one of 15 people that you don’t think is unqualified for to kind of lay
1:04:53 down your marker in the sand and say your children will be vaccinated or we
1:04:57 will not have someone who thinks Assad wasn’t really that bad that that might
1:05:03 be good for you long-term but I’m also not running for public opinion me I say
1:05:06 that to the Republicans I talked to all the time and fewer and fewer of them
1:05:10 actually want to talk to me so you know maybe that’s part of my why my
1:05:14 influence isn’t working but I’m like you don’t have to be me I’m not asking
1:05:20 Republican senators or congressmen to troll Trump online you know to try to
1:05:26 own him you know to like fight everything like there’s a huge space between me and
1:05:31 like total submission and it’s just like they’ve kind of decided to abandon that
1:05:36 whole space like there’s just nobody that has decided to try to occupy that and
1:05:39 succeed and I think that’s wrong I do I think people could I mean Collins I
1:05:44 guess as the as the example as the example like I don’t really love Susan
1:05:47 Collins everything that she’s done but she did manage to occupy that space in
1:05:51 between total never-trumper and total Trump’s sycophant and it worked for her
1:05:55 she was like the only senator well this cycle a couple happened but before you
1:05:59 know during the first Trump she was the only senator that won and went the
1:06:05 opposite way as the state you know in 2016 and 2020 yeah you’re saying that I
1:06:14 wasted my dollars on Sarah Gideon no I don’t know if you gave any money to
1:06:23 Jamie Harrison no I have a friend who is a doctor and loves politics but isn’t in
1:06:26 the day-to-day insanity she’ll send me like a New York Times article the day
1:06:30 after and she’ll be like can you believe this and I’m like I need to talk to you
1:06:33 about how fast the news cycle goes but she’ll regularly send me a link to
1:06:37 various Democrats and she goes worth my money I’m like well how much money like
1:06:42 if you want it if you want to be spreading $10 all over the place go
1:06:48 ahead for it but Amy McGrath is never gonna be the senator that takes a Mitch
1:06:52 McConnell seat okay thank you so much for being here that’s it for this
1:06:57 episode thank you for joining us Tim and the raging moderates crew our
1:07:01 producers are David Toledo and Chinane Onike our technical director is Drew
1:07:05 Burroughs you can now find Raging Moderates on its own feed every Tuesday
1:07:09 that’s right it’s own feed there you’ll get exclusive interviews with smart
1:07:13 voices and politics like our latest guest congressman Pat Ryan follow us
1:07:18 wherever you get your podcasts also follow Tim in all of Bulwark world and
1:07:21 thank you for being with us well just me Scott’s not here but he loves you from
1:07:28 afar I loved it good to be here we’ll do that again soon peace bye
Jessica and Tim Miller break down the biggest political moves of the week. Trump is making waves on the world stage, claiming a breakthrough in Ukraine talks with Putin—so what’s his real endgame? Back at home, he’s throwing a legal lifeline to NYC Mayor Eric Adams, but is that “help” actually a political liability? Plus, where do Anti-Trump Republicans stand in a party still dominated by him?
Follow Jessica Tarlov, @JessicaTarlov.
Follow Tim Miller, @Timodc.
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