Moment 202: Former Mafia Boss EXPOSES How The Real MAFIA KILLS People…

0:00:03 My dad was involved in 30-35 murders.
0:00:07 No, he never admitted that to me, about anyone in particular.
0:00:09 He was indicted for one murder,
0:00:12 and he was acquitted in that case, found not guilty.
0:00:16 But my dad was, he was a tough guy, there was no question.
0:00:17 So…
0:00:22 If he was involved in 35 murders, as the FBI suggests,
0:00:25 do you think he was better off behind bars?
0:00:28 What I’m getting at here, really, is if they framed him,
0:00:33 was it a net benefit to society that they framed him?
0:00:35 Well, you know, Steve, let me…
0:00:36 I know there’s going to be a tough one,
0:00:41 but let me tell you how I think.
0:00:46 The right and just side of me, the legally just side of me,
0:00:51 says that the government is never allowed to break the law,
0:00:53 to uphold the law, because if you allow that to happen,
0:00:57 then it falls into monarchy, and people are not protected.
0:00:59 Because if they do it against sunny frenzies,
0:01:01 they can do it against anybody.
0:01:04 So I believe strictly, the government has enough tools
0:01:07 and weapons to get people the right way,
0:01:10 and they do 96, 97% of the time.
0:01:12 They shouldn’t be allowed to violate the law,
0:01:13 to go after a criminal.
0:01:15 That’s my feeling on it.
0:01:19 Now, another thing is this.
0:01:22 People think when we take an oath, the oath of Omerita,
0:01:23 it’s an oath to stay silent.
0:01:27 It’s not an oath to lie, steal, cheat, and kill.
0:01:28 Does that happen as part of that light?
0:01:31 Yes, but we’re told straight out.
0:01:34 Now, try to understand the thinking here.
0:01:36 You come into that life, you’re told straight out.
0:01:37 We have rules.
0:01:40 You don’t ever violate another man’s wife,
0:01:42 daughter, sister, girl, never.
0:01:44 That’ll cause you to die.
0:01:47 During my era, we weren’t allowed to deal with drugs.
0:01:50 You deal with drugs, you get caught, you die.
0:01:51 You maybe do some other things.
0:01:53 You’re not honest with people.
0:01:54 You disrespect somebody.
0:01:58 You hit another made guy, you die.
0:02:01 Now, we understand that, and they tell you.
0:02:03 Your best friend may be the one that pulls the trigger,
0:02:06 because the life comes before anything.
0:02:07 That’s it.
0:02:08 You don’t violate the rules.
0:02:10 That’s how we maintain control in this life.
0:02:12 That’s how we existed for 100 years,
0:02:14 and that’s how it’s going to stay.
0:02:18 So now you’re saying, OK, we all agreed to this.
0:02:19 We all admitted it.
0:02:24 If one of us decides to violate the policy of the law,
0:02:28 and we get caught, well, we understand the consequences.
0:02:32 So that’s how I looked at it, and that’s how I justified it.
0:02:34 Now, does that say you can go out and start
0:02:35 to do random killings?
0:02:37 No.
0:02:39 If the boss tells you to go kill somebody
0:02:43 because he doesn’t like them and you do it, that’s not right.
0:02:45 But if we kill our own, and you know,
0:02:48 you hear a lot of times, well, we only kill our own.
0:02:50 Well, we don’t only kill our own.
0:02:54 But if we only kill our own, knowing that we made that choice,
0:02:58 well, then, OK, I kind of get it anyway.
0:02:59 Even though murder is murdering, it’s a crime,
0:03:02 and it’s sinful, and I understand that.
0:03:04 But that’s how you justified it.
0:03:07 But it wasn’t the case that you only killed your own.
0:03:09 Well, for some of us, it was.
0:03:11 And for others, it was not.
0:03:13 And I’ve seen both sides of that.
0:03:18 You’ve never talked about having to kill someone, have you?
0:03:19 No.
0:03:21 Why is that?
0:03:26 It’s just not a subject I can get into, you know?
0:03:33 I– listen, I like to be as honest as I possibly can,
0:03:37 because I am a Christian, and you don’t want to lie to people.
0:03:41 But it’s not something I want to talk about.
0:03:43 I was wondering, because when I read that,
0:03:45 I thought maybe it’s because, you know,
0:03:47 there’s something that might be legal retribution.
0:03:51 Maybe it’s because, you know, it’s not nice for people to hear about.
0:03:54 Maybe it’s because there’s still some kind of, like, rule
0:03:56 where you can’t say anything.
0:03:58 But I wondered why.
0:03:59 Maybe it’s all of the above, I don’t know.
0:04:01 Well, you know, Steve, look, there’s guys–
0:04:03 there’s a lot of guys on the street now.
0:04:05 And if you go on YouTube, you’ll see a number of them.
0:04:08 And they’ve admitted to murders that they were involved in.
0:04:10 These are made guys, and they’ve admitted to it.
0:04:13 And many of them had struck a deal with the government.
0:04:16 They had immunity for the crimes they committed, even murder.
0:04:18 I mean, the government give you immunity for murder
0:04:23 if they want you to cooperate and help them out.
0:04:25 It’s amazing, but they’ll do it.
0:04:26 And so they have immunity.
0:04:28 They could talk about their crimes.
0:04:30 I didn’t cooperate to that level at all.
0:04:33 I don’t have immunity for anything that I’ve done in the past.
0:04:33 You know?
0:04:36 And listen, you know, our laws here in the United States,
0:04:38 if you were standing next to somebody
0:04:41 when they murdered somebody else, you could be charged for murder
0:04:43 the same way that them.
0:04:46 So, you know, I’m just saying I was in that position.
0:04:48 I’m just saying that’s the law.
0:04:49 So, you know, why talk about it?
0:04:53 Number one, and number two, murder is ugly.
0:04:55 You know, it’s ugly.
0:04:57 And you don’t ever want to talk about it.
0:04:58 I mean, I don’t–
0:05:00 if I were to do something like that,
0:05:02 I wouldn’t be proud of it.
0:05:05 I’m not trying to throw my chest out and say, hey, look,
0:05:05 what I could do.
0:05:06 Guys go to war.
0:05:08 They kill people all the time, you know,
0:05:09 in defense of our country or defensive.
0:05:15 So, I mean, it’s not like, oh, God, you know, nobody–
0:05:17 I mean, murder happens every single day.
0:05:19 Who wants to talk about it?
0:05:20 Some people do.
0:05:20 I know.
0:05:23 Not me.
0:05:27 You got closer to the mafia when your father was sent down.
0:05:30 And this was the point where you decided not to go to school.
0:05:33 The boss of the Colombo family brings you close,
0:05:36 brings you under his wing.
0:05:38 Do you have to do some kind of training or something
0:05:39 to join the mafia, is there any?
0:05:40 Oh, you do.
0:05:40 Oh, yeah.
0:05:43 Well, when you come into it, here’s what happened.
0:05:44 I leave there.
0:05:45 A captain in a family picked me up
0:05:47 and took me to see the boss.
0:05:50 Now, unfortunately, Joe Colombo was assassinated.
0:05:52 He was shot, seriously wounded.
0:05:53 He lingered for about seven years,
0:05:56 and then he died as a result of these wounds.
0:05:59 So a new boss took over, and he’s passed away now.
0:06:00 And I sat with him.
0:06:03 This was about two weeks after my father sent word downtown
0:06:06 that he was proposing me to be part of that life.
0:06:08 If you can’t just go up to somebody, say, I’d like to join.
0:06:10 Somebody has to propose you, vouch for you,
0:06:12 say you have what it takes.
0:06:14 There’s a lot of nepotism in that life.
0:06:17 A lot of fathers brought their sons in, their nephews,
0:06:18 whatever.
0:06:21 So in my case, it was my dad that proposed me.
0:06:24 And so I sat with the boss, and he said to me, here’s the deal.
0:06:26 You want to become a member of our life.
0:06:28 Your father sent the message, is that true?
0:06:29 And I said, yes.
0:06:31 He’s, well, here’s the deal.
0:06:33 From now on, 24 hours a day, seven days a week,
0:06:37 you’re on call to serve this family, the Colombo family.
0:06:40 That means if your mother is sick and she’s dying,
0:06:43 you’re at her bedside, we call you to service,
0:06:45 you leave your mother, you come and serve us.
0:06:46 From now on, we’re number one in your life
0:06:48 before anything and everything.
0:06:51 When and if we feel you’ve deserved this privilege,
0:06:53 this honor to become a member, we’ll let you know.
0:06:55 That’s it.
0:06:56 And do you accept that?
0:06:57 And I said, yes, I do.
0:06:59 And so over the next two and a half years,
0:07:02 I was in like a recruit pledge period
0:07:04 where I had to do anything and everything I was told to do,
0:07:06 prove myself worthy.
0:07:08 Could have been something very menial,
0:07:10 a lot of discipline in that life, a lot of authority,
0:07:12 a lot of alleged respect.
0:07:13 You had a meeting at eight o’clock,
0:07:15 you weren’t there at seven 30, you were late.
0:07:17 You could never be late in that life.
0:07:18 I don’t care what the situation is.
0:07:20 You had a meeting at eight o’clock,
0:07:22 if there was traffic and you were concerned,
0:07:24 come the night before and sleep in the car.
0:07:26 Can never be late, no excuses.
0:07:28 You know, drive the bus to a meeting,
0:07:30 sit in the car three, four, five hours.
0:07:32 God forbid you leave, you go to the restroom,
0:07:35 get a newspaper, he comes out and you’re not there.
0:07:37 Oh my gosh, we could have had trouble.
0:07:39 You were the getaway driver, you weren’t there.
0:07:42 I know I did that once and I paid the price for it.
0:07:44 That’s very serious stuff.
0:07:45 – You paid the price?
0:07:46 – Well, paid the price, in other words,
0:07:47 I got a real good tongue lashing.
0:07:51 I’ll tell you, you know, just stuff like that.
0:07:53 They kind of put you on the shelf for two weeks
0:07:56 to make you understand the seriousness of what you did.
0:07:57 So you never do it again.
0:08:00 You never repeat your mistakes in that life.
0:08:02 If you’re smart, if you’re number one,
0:08:04 wanna survive and number two, you wanna move up.
0:08:06 You never repeat your mistakes.
0:08:08 So, you know, things like that.
0:08:09 And then look, I’m gonna be honest with you.
0:08:12 You know, as honest as I possibly can.
0:08:14 It’s a violent life at times.
0:08:16 If you’re part of the life in some shape or form,
0:08:18 you’re part of the violence.
0:08:19 And if anybody tells you differently,
0:08:21 they’re either not being honest
0:08:22 or they weren’t a made member of that life.
0:08:24 And that’s just how it goes.
0:08:26 – Why’d you say that?
0:08:28 ‘Cause you said the menial and then you said,
0:08:29 it’s a violent life.
0:08:34 Are you saying that in that sort of probationary two years,
0:08:35 you had to do both of those things.
0:08:36 You had to be involved in the violence
0:08:38 and do the menial stuff.
0:08:39 – Let’s put it this way.
0:08:40 They gotta have enough faith in you
0:08:44 that you can be capable of doing
0:08:45 whatever it is they tell you to do.
0:08:49 They have to understand that and feel that
0:08:52 because if they don’t feel that, you’re not going anywhere.
0:08:53 That’s it.
0:08:56 So during that time, you’re gonna be tested.
0:08:59 – And you were tested?
0:09:00 – Yeah.
0:09:03 – When they made you pledge that if your mother was dying
0:09:05 and you were at her bedside and they called you
0:09:07 and asked you to do something, you’d leave.
0:09:10 Would you have left if your mother was dying?
0:09:11 – Back then, I mean, I might have.
0:09:15 I mean, I was a played by the rule guy.
0:09:22 I was very fortunate that I had a great teacher in my dad.
0:09:24 He was a student and master of the life.
0:09:27 And so, and I was like a sponge.
0:09:30 I absorbed whatever my dad told me, I listened.
0:09:33 And some of the things that he told me were right.
0:09:36 So I might have at the time, I’m gonna be honest with you.
0:09:39 I mean, I don’t know, it would have to depend
0:09:41 on what’s happening at that moment.
0:09:44 But, you know, I was so indoctrinated into that life
0:09:47 at some point, it’s who I was.
0:09:51 – Sounds a bit like a cult, in a way.
0:09:54 – It’s cult-like, I guess, you know, in a way.
0:09:56 I mean, we didn’t do silly things, you know.
0:09:59 We went to have rituals and ceremonies
0:10:02 other than that one, yeah, other than that one.
0:10:03 Nothing after that, but.
0:10:08 – What did it teach you about people skills?
0:10:10 Because you’re around these bosses,
0:10:12 these very talented men.
0:10:14 You’re seeing how they conduct themselves,
0:10:17 do business, influence people, win friends.
0:10:20 What did that phase of your life teach you about
0:10:24 how to be a motivator/manipulator of people?
0:10:26 – Yeah, it taught me well.
0:10:27 I think I got it.
0:10:30 You know, there’s kind of two levels in that life.
0:10:35 You’re either a racketeer or you’re a gangster.
0:10:36 – What’s the difference?
0:10:38 – I’ll tell you the difference.
0:10:41 A gangster is a guy that really doesn’t know
0:10:44 how to use that life to benefit him in business.
0:10:48 So he’s more of a, I don’t want to say tough guy,
0:10:49 I don’t want to say the term,
0:10:51 but he’s more of a guy that, hey, we had something done,
0:10:53 this is the guy, send him out, let him do it.
0:10:56 ‘Cause you gotta earn your keep in that life.
0:11:00 We in the Colombo family had 115 made guys at that time.
0:11:04 Out of the 115, 20 of us were really earning money
0:11:06 and supporting the family in some way
0:11:09 and really elevating the family.
0:11:11 We were racketeers.
0:11:13 Now a gangster could never really be a racketeer,
0:11:15 he just doesn’t know how.
0:11:17 But a racketeer has to be a gangster also,
0:11:19 ’cause you’re gonna be called upon.
0:11:21 Not as much as this guy,
0:11:23 but when you’re called upon, you gotta do it.
0:11:27 So, you know, I was more of a racketeer.
0:11:30 And as a result of that, I was constantly
0:11:33 in business disputes and sitting down with other guys.
0:11:36 And you have to learn, you know, how to negotiate.
0:11:40 I mean, I learned the art of negotiation at these sit downs.
0:11:42 You know, learned how to try to, you know,
0:11:45 really before I walk into a meeting with somebody,
0:11:49 number one, try to know the personality of that person.
0:11:51 Know if there’s a fallback position,
0:11:53 if I’m not winning, what I’ll accept.
0:11:55 And so I had to prepare myself for these meetings.
0:11:58 ‘Cause unprepared, you know, they’ll chew you up.
0:12:02 ‘Cause a lot of these old time was very skillful.
0:12:04 And believe me, you could be 100% right and end up wrong.
0:12:06 And they’ll put you in a trap.
0:12:08 So you really had to know what you were doing.
0:12:10 And so my people skills in that regard,
0:12:15 as far as negotiating and identifying a true leader,
0:12:19 were really honed to a, you know, a high degree
0:12:23 because I came out on top many, many times.
0:12:26 (upbeat music)
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