The high schooler making $20M a year

0:00:02 By the way, it’s noon on a Monday.
0:00:04 Where are you right now?
0:00:07 I actually skipped class to do this podcast.
0:00:09 Let’s go.
0:00:12 Sorry, Miss Bickerstaff.
0:00:13 The boys are calling.
0:00:29 Okay, this kid right here on the screen is making $20 million as a high schooler.
0:00:32 The high schooler that is making $20 million a year in revenue.
0:00:34 That is absurd.
0:00:35 Zach, welcome to the show, man.
0:00:39 I think this is actually the make everybody else feel bad.
0:00:43 When you find out that like a 17, 18-year-old kid is making $20 million in high school,
0:00:45 I think a lot of people’s initial reaction is wow.
0:00:47 And another group is like, oh, man.
0:00:50 How much of that per year is profit, Zach?
0:00:53 It’s more than 30%.
0:00:54 All right.
0:00:55 Impressive.
0:00:56 Very good.
0:00:57 Ballin’.
0:00:58 We’re going to tell the story.
0:01:01 If I figure out how it’s going, Sam, do we need to address your Letterman jacket?
0:01:02 Are you just in the high school mood?
0:01:03 What’s going on?
0:01:08 Look, I found out that Zach was coming on and I wanted to look the part, you know?
0:01:09 Like, what’s that movie, Sean?
0:01:12 It’s like Never Been Kissed where they pretended that they’re in high school.
0:01:15 Or 21 Jump Street.
0:01:16 Yeah.
0:01:16 That’s us.
0:01:20 Like, this is actually the second group of high schoolers that we spoke with over the
0:01:21 last two weeks.
0:01:22 I’m Jonah Hill.
0:01:27 All right, Zach, dude, welcome to the show.
0:01:29 You’ve listened to the podcast before, I understand?
0:01:30 Yeah.
0:01:31 Last two years.
0:01:36 Would you say we maybe inspired you slash were the sole cause of your success?
0:01:39 Yeah, I’d say this is the sole reason for any of it.
0:01:41 All right, so let’s explain.
0:01:46 Start with what your app does, because it’s like, what app is making $20 million for a high
0:01:47 schooler?
0:01:48 So let’s explain, what is your app?
0:01:49 Yes.
0:01:50 And when did you start it?
0:01:51 Let’s start with that.
0:02:00 So Cal AI is the app, and it lets you take a picture of any meal and get back the calories,
0:02:02 proteins, fats, and carbs to track it.
0:02:07 So think any other calorie tracking app, but then heavy AI features involved.
0:02:09 Does it work really well?
0:02:10 That sounds like a really hard thing.
0:02:16 Like, you know, you were literally 12 years old, or maybe eight years old when Silicon Valley
0:02:21 the TV show came out, and that was like, the joke was like, is this a hot dog or not?
0:02:24 Now the app says a lot more.
0:02:28 You know, does that work really well, or is it like mostly right?
0:02:35 So the scanning is about 90% accurate on average, which is really good when you look at the data
0:02:37 for FDA nutrition labels.
0:02:40 They can be up to 20% inaccurate.
0:02:42 So it’s actually really good there.
0:02:45 But we only recommend that you use it.
0:02:49 Well, if you’re training for Mr. Olympia, let’s say, we don’t recommend you use our AI
0:02:50 calorie tracker.
0:02:53 You could use the food database, weigh your food on the scale.
0:02:56 Well, and the scale stuff, like I, you know, I’m a weirdo.
0:03:00 I’ve actually used MyFitnessPal for probably five years, almost every day now.
0:03:01 Yeah.
0:03:05 And what a lot of people don’t realize is when they eyeball their calories, they’re probably
0:03:07 always off by like 30 or 40%.
0:03:08 Have you tried tracking your food, Sean?
0:03:09 Yeah.
0:03:13 Actually, I think I came on this podcast a while back and I said this exact problem.
0:03:18 I was like, MyFitnessPal, it’s so slow and annoying to type in every single thing and estimate the
0:03:19 weight of it.
0:03:21 So, okay, I’m eating this.
0:03:21 How many grams of it?
0:03:22 I don’t really know.
0:03:23 I didn’t weigh it out.
0:03:28 And then you get this calorie thing, but also they have like five entries for whatever,
0:03:30 for chicken breast.
0:03:32 You don’t know which one to pick.
0:03:37 And I remember even saying, I think on this podcast, like, I wish somebody just had it where
0:03:40 you could just take a picture and computer vision would just know.
0:03:42 And I can’t wait for that to happen.
0:03:44 And it sounds like it’s kind of happened.
0:03:47 So you started this how long ago?
0:03:48 10 months ago.
0:03:51 10 months.
0:03:51 Okay.
0:03:53 So 10 months ago, you started this as a 17 year old.
0:03:56 And can you just give us a sense of the growth?
0:03:59 So in 10 months, you started obviously with zero.
0:04:02 First month, roughly, where were you at?
0:04:05 So the first month, it was a little bit slow to pick up.
0:04:11 We probably ended having done $30,000 in revenue the second month.
0:04:13 And that’s when we were testing the waters.
0:04:16 Do people actually want a calorie tracking app?
0:04:19 The hypothesis was that, yeah, it would make people’s lives easier.
0:04:27 But we are almost hitting this interesting intersection between people are very hardcore with tracking
0:04:32 their calories, weighing their food on a scale, needing the precision decimal point accuracy.
0:04:36 And then on the other end of people that don’t track their calories at all.
0:04:39 So our hypothesis was that there was a middle ground.
0:04:43 And that’s where we threw the capital to test.
0:04:44 And it worked.
0:04:50 So then the next month, which was June, we did our first six figures in a month.
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0:05:27 So, okay, amazing.
0:05:28 Yeah, I mean, you’re saying we.
0:05:30 Does he talk like every 16 year old?
0:05:32 You’ve sounded like this, right, Sean?
0:05:34 He sounds more mature than us.
0:05:36 So you’re saying we.
0:05:38 Is there a we?
0:05:40 Who’s the, is it a royal we?
0:05:41 Like, it’s just kind of me.
0:05:43 And then did you start this with somebody?
0:05:45 Yes, I have three co-founders.
0:05:47 So to give you a breakdown,
0:05:49 one is also in high school.
0:05:53 He’s our CTO, Henry Langmack, a killer engineer.
0:05:55 Child technology officer.
0:05:56 Yes, go.
0:06:01 Blake Anderson, who I think you guys actually did an episode
0:06:03 about one of his apps, UMax.
0:06:06 So he had found previously two other apps
0:06:07 that had gotten a few million downloads.
0:06:09 So we partnered up.
0:06:10 How’d you guys meet each other?
0:06:12 Because you’re not in the same high school.
0:06:13 How’d you find these other young builders?
0:06:17 Yeah, so Henry and I met at a coding camp
0:06:18 when we were both 10 years old.
0:06:21 He lived in Long Island initially,
0:06:22 but then he moved to New Jersey.
0:06:23 So we stayed in touch.
0:06:26 Blake, I actually found on Twitter.
0:06:28 Gotcha.
0:06:29 So you guys get together.
0:06:30 And who has the idea for the app?
0:06:35 So it was a mix of Blake and myself.
0:06:39 I was tracking my calories two years before starting Cal AI
0:06:42 on MyFitnessPal, or at least trying to.
0:06:44 I was really skinny growing up.
0:06:47 And I wanted to put on weight, put on muscle,
0:06:49 honestly, to impress girls in my high school.
0:06:52 And it was super tedious.
0:06:53 So I just gave up.
0:06:55 But I knew there had to be a better solution.
0:06:57 The coder in me, the engineer in me,
0:06:59 knew that there must be an easier way.
0:07:01 And the following two years,
0:07:03 all of these AI models started being released.
0:07:06 And so after jumping into the app space
0:07:08 and talking to Blake,
0:07:11 who had a very similar path of these AI apps,
0:07:12 we came to this idea.
0:07:15 And having a $20 million a year business
0:07:16 is a lot cooler, I bet,
0:07:19 than having muscles when it comes to impressing girls.
0:07:20 Yeah, which one works better?
0:07:24 Honestly, I thought that once,
0:07:25 I always had this vision as a kid
0:07:27 that I just need to be successful
0:07:29 and all the girls will be on top of me all the time,
0:07:31 but nothing really changed.
0:07:33 It’s just dudes like us?
0:07:34 Yeah, exactly.
0:07:37 You know, honestly, dude, having big muscles,
0:07:39 it’s also just only dudes admiring you.
0:07:42 We’re actually still not sure
0:07:44 what gets the women to like you.
0:07:46 We’re still trying to figure that out.
0:07:49 Can we pull up, you posted a video,
0:07:51 back when you were,
0:07:52 how old was he in this video?
0:07:53 That was three years ago, I think.
0:07:55 Three years ago.
0:07:57 So you’re like, what, 14, 15 years old.
0:07:59 The video is titled,
0:08:02 How I’m Gonna Make $1 Million in High School.
0:08:03 Pull this up,
0:08:05 because I want to get your reaction to this.
0:08:06 It starts, by the way,
0:08:07 it just starts with like-
0:08:07 It’s a great video.
0:08:09 It’s an amazing video.
0:08:10 How many views does this video have?
0:08:11 I can’t see from the-
0:08:11 Like 8,000.
0:08:13 Okay, 7,000 views.
0:08:14 Three years ago, you posted this.
0:08:16 You only have 1,000 subscribers on YouTube.
0:08:18 I say only.
0:08:19 I mean, I just mean like,
0:08:21 this video is criminally underrated.
0:08:22 At the time,
0:08:24 that’s 20 subscribers when I posted this.
0:08:26 So you could play this.
0:08:27 I don’t know if the audio will come through.
0:08:32 I’m going to make $1 million
0:08:34 before graduating high school,
0:08:35 and this YouTube channel
0:08:37 is going to document the whole process.
0:08:38 Here comes the best part.
0:08:38 The mic-
0:08:42 The alignment of the text,
0:08:43 and then watch the microwave.
0:08:45 What is $1 million?
0:08:48 It’s enough cash to give you a luxury lifestyle.
0:08:51 It makes life more enjoyable and stress-free.
0:08:52 It’s every kid’s dream.
0:08:53 Wow.
0:08:54 Director’s cut.
0:08:58 Making $1 million can be broken down.
0:08:59 For example,
0:09:01 if you’re trying to make it in a year,
0:09:03 it’s just $80,000 a month,
0:09:06 or $20,000 a week,
0:09:08 or $3,000 a day.
0:09:10 All I would need to do
0:09:12 is sell $30,000 $100 items
0:09:13 every single day.
0:09:14 All right, you can pause it, Ari.
0:09:16 I’m really making it more simple than it seems.
0:09:17 I love this video.
0:09:18 I love this video.
0:09:20 On so many levels, it’s insane.
0:09:21 I love that you’re shooting your shot.
0:09:23 You’re calling your shot, I should say.
0:09:23 Right?
0:09:25 This is Babe Ruth pointing at center field.
0:09:26 So I love that you called your shot.
0:09:29 I love that you were just having fun with it.
0:09:31 You obviously weren’t super polished
0:09:33 or going back and editing this
0:09:34 to try to make it fancy.
0:09:36 And I love that your mindset,
0:09:37 you were like,
0:09:38 I want to do this,
0:09:40 and then you sort of broke it down
0:09:41 into smaller, more digestible chunks, right?
0:09:42 Because you can’t just make
0:09:43 the million dollars in a second.
0:09:44 You’re like,
0:09:46 I need to make $20,000 a week.
0:09:48 I need to make $3,000 in a day.
0:09:50 To do that, I got to sell $30,000 items.
0:09:52 That seems achievable.
0:09:53 What was,
0:09:55 can you just tell us,
0:09:56 why did you decide to make that video?
0:09:59 Well, from such a young age,
0:10:02 and I’m not entirely sure
0:10:04 where I could pinpoint this,
0:10:05 but I’ve always wanted to
0:10:08 make massive impact on the world.
0:10:12 And usually that is parallel
0:10:14 with having a lot of monetary success.
0:10:16 And so my goal was always
0:10:18 make a million dollars while in high school.
0:10:20 Part of that was because
0:10:23 I was really stressed out about school.
0:10:25 My parents were super strict about my grades,
0:10:28 and social studies was the one class I hated.
0:10:32 I hated that I had to memorize flashcards.
0:10:35 And I vividly remember one night
0:10:36 where I was sitting there
0:10:38 trying to memorize these flashcards
0:10:40 about explorers that came to the Americas.
0:10:43 And I was so frustrated.
0:10:45 I broke down the problem and realized that
0:10:47 I’m studying to get a good grade,
0:10:48 but why?
0:10:49 Why do I want a good grade?
0:10:51 It’s to get into a good college
0:10:52 so that I could get a good job
0:10:53 and make money,
0:10:55 and then live a happy life.
0:10:58 So if I could skip all of those steps,
0:11:00 it would remove the stress
0:11:01 that I’m feeling right now.
0:11:02 If I can make money right now
0:11:04 so I wouldn’t need to worry about a job,
0:11:05 I wouldn’t need to be stressed.
0:11:07 And then I set out the goal to do so.
0:11:09 You’re not wrong.
0:11:11 It’s the intelligent man’s procrastination.
0:11:11 It’s like,
0:11:13 yeah, should I study these 15 flashcards
0:11:15 or make a million dollars?
0:11:16 I think I’ll make a million dollars instead.
0:11:18 Are your parents entrepreneurs
0:11:20 or are they just normal?
0:11:21 The house was nice.
0:11:22 That’s a nice house.
0:11:25 So my parents have both been lawyers
0:11:27 for their career.
0:11:28 But then recently,
0:11:29 two years ago,
0:11:32 my dad left his job at a company
0:11:35 to start a financial consulting firm.
0:11:38 And I always worry people are going to think,
0:11:40 oh, because he started a business,
0:11:41 that’s where all of this came from.
0:11:43 But I was entrepreneurial and doing things
0:11:46 long before he actually left his company
0:11:47 to start his…
0:11:49 Do you like give him tips sometimes?
0:11:52 I don’t.
0:11:54 I should offer to angel invest in his company
0:11:56 and be his mentor.
0:11:58 All right.
0:12:00 So you, Sam,
0:12:01 any thoughts on that video
0:12:02 before we move on from the video?
0:12:03 It’s the best.
0:12:04 You know, Sean,
0:12:05 we brought this up
0:12:08 maybe six months ago
0:12:09 on a podcast.
0:12:10 I don’t know if you remember that.
0:12:12 And it was still like,
0:12:14 is this kid like,
0:12:15 is this a joke?
0:12:16 Like, does he actually have it?
0:12:18 And, you know,
0:12:19 how like real is this?
0:12:21 And we brought that up saying,
0:12:22 this is amazing
0:12:23 if it turns out to be true.
0:12:26 And it is true times 20.
0:12:28 It’s like absolutely amazing
0:12:28 that you’ve been able to hold this on.
0:12:29 Well, it’s grown a lot.
0:12:30 I think at that time,
0:12:33 it was like a million dollar ARR app.
0:12:34 Yeah.
0:12:36 So I think you were probably at
0:12:38 something like $80,000 a month.
0:12:38 Yeah.
0:12:40 Now, how much revenue are you doing?
0:12:42 Well, last month,
0:12:44 we just did our first $2 million.
0:12:47 So, wow.
0:12:48 Okay.
0:12:50 You’re in a $24 million pace.
0:12:51 And what will the,
0:12:54 your first 12 months of full business,
0:12:55 what will the revenue be?
0:12:57 Full business,
0:12:59 the revenue would have exceeded $10 million
0:13:01 from launching in May
0:13:02 to coming this month.
0:13:05 And is it entirely bootstrapped?
0:13:07 Have you had any outside financing?
0:13:08 All bootstrapped.
0:13:09 Wow.
0:13:10 And how many employees?
0:13:10 I’m just going to,
0:13:11 like, I’m going to,
0:13:12 I need to ask a bunch of questions
0:13:13 so I understand all the info.
0:13:15 How many employees?
0:13:16 Totally.
0:13:17 Right now,
0:13:19 we have 15 employees full time.
0:13:19 Wow.
0:13:20 Okay.
0:13:21 That’s amazing.
0:13:21 Wow.
0:13:21 That’s a lot.
0:13:24 So how did you get it to work?
0:13:24 Okay.
0:13:25 So you make an app,
0:13:26 you’re a coder,
0:13:27 you started coding
0:13:28 when you were seven years old
0:13:29 or something like that.
0:13:30 so I believe that you could make an app.
0:13:31 Yeah.
0:13:32 It seems like,
0:13:33 let’s just do a quick summary
0:13:34 on making the app.
0:13:35 So how did you actually build this,
0:13:35 like,
0:13:36 thing?
0:13:37 Are you basically taking
0:13:39 a bunch of AI tools
0:13:40 and then sort of,
0:13:42 I’m not saying like
0:13:43 you’re just like a wrapper,
0:13:44 but like custom,
0:13:46 custom building them
0:13:47 for this use case
0:13:49 of tracking calories in an app.
0:13:50 Can you just quickly describe
0:13:51 making the app
0:13:52 and how long that took you?
0:13:52 Totally.
0:13:54 So a lot of people
0:13:55 do look down
0:13:56 on apps like Cal AI.
0:13:58 They’ll summarize them
0:13:59 as just an AI wrapper
0:14:01 and think that we
0:14:03 aren’t providing any value.
0:14:04 And it’s true
0:14:05 that we started
0:14:06 as an AI wrapper.
0:14:07 And I think that
0:14:09 that’s something
0:14:09 all apps
0:14:10 should do.
0:14:11 Just like
0:14:12 in e-com,
0:14:13 it’s very common
0:14:14 to start as a dropshipper
0:14:16 and dropship a product.
0:14:18 and then once you find success,
0:14:20 actually manufacture yourself,
0:14:21 store it yourself,
0:14:23 create your own brand
0:14:23 out of that.
0:14:24 So it’s just
0:14:25 the proof of concept
0:14:26 is the dropshipping.
0:14:27 For us,
0:14:28 the proof of concept
0:14:30 was using
0:14:31 ChatGPT
0:14:32 and other AI tools
0:14:34 kind of as a wrapper app,
0:14:34 frankly.
0:14:36 But then after finding
0:14:37 initial success,
0:14:38 which,
0:14:39 so the first app,
0:14:40 the first version,
0:14:41 very,
0:14:42 very bare bones,
0:14:43 very,
0:14:44 very basic,
0:14:45 you were able
0:14:46 to take a picture
0:14:46 of your food,
0:14:47 it would tell you
0:14:48 the calories,
0:14:48 it would have
0:14:49 the daily breakdown.
0:14:50 That was it.
0:14:51 One feature.
0:14:52 And then,
0:14:53 after we saw
0:14:54 that people liked it,
0:14:56 we started adding
0:14:57 more features.
0:14:58 How many people
0:14:59 did you have
0:15:00 using it
0:15:00 to determine
0:15:01 that they like it?
0:15:03 We had,
0:15:04 so,
0:15:05 this is important to note,
0:15:06 we’ve grown
0:15:07 all through
0:15:07 influencer marketing,
0:15:08 which is how
0:15:09 we’ve achieved
0:15:10 our rapid growth.
0:15:11 And so,
0:15:12 after working
0:15:13 with two
0:15:13 influencers,
0:15:14 having them
0:15:15 post on their
0:15:15 stories,
0:15:16 talking about
0:15:16 the app,
0:15:17 that’s when
0:15:17 we had the
0:15:18 initial feedback
0:15:19 and saw that
0:15:20 people actually liked it.
0:15:20 So,
0:15:21 let’s go step-by-step.
0:15:22 You make the app,
0:15:23 app exists,
0:15:24 who are the first
0:15:25 10 people that see it?
0:15:26 Family and friends?
0:15:26 Is that where
0:15:27 you started with?
0:15:28 Family and friends,
0:15:29 although we just
0:15:30 disregarded anything
0:15:32 from them because
0:15:32 I always think
0:15:33 it’s biased.
0:15:33 Okay,
0:15:34 so you send it to them,
0:15:35 they’re kind of,
0:15:35 they say,
0:15:35 oh,
0:15:36 it’s great,
0:15:36 you’re like,
0:15:36 all right,
0:15:37 cool,
0:15:37 but we don’t really know.
0:15:38 Next,
0:15:40 what’d you do next?
0:15:41 So,
0:15:41 next,
0:15:43 we started contacting
0:15:44 influencers,
0:15:45 fitness influencers
0:15:46 on Instagram
0:15:47 and TikTok.
0:15:48 Did my DM get lost
0:15:48 in the mail?
0:15:51 Why did I,
0:15:53 is this in my other
0:15:54 inbox?
0:15:54 What’s going on?
0:15:57 Yeah,
0:15:57 we’ll need to get you
0:15:58 on it.
0:15:58 But,
0:16:00 we reached out
0:16:00 and
0:16:02 most people just
0:16:03 don’t respond.
0:16:04 It took me
0:16:06 over two weeks
0:16:06 to get my first
0:16:07 response from an
0:16:08 influencer.
0:16:09 Give us a sense
0:16:09 of the pitch.
0:16:10 What’s the DM say?
0:16:11 So,
0:16:11 basically,
0:16:12 you always want to start
0:16:13 at least from
0:16:14 what we’ve tested.
0:16:15 we’ve ran a lot
0:16:16 of A-B tests
0:16:16 on this.
0:16:18 Paid promo,
0:16:19 putting that first,
0:16:20 the question mark,
0:16:21 and then jumping
0:16:23 into our app,
0:16:24 lets you track calories
0:16:24 just by taking
0:16:25 a picture of your food.
0:16:27 We think it would
0:16:27 fit your audience
0:16:28 and would love
0:16:29 to work for you,
0:16:29 with you.
0:16:31 If you’re interested,
0:16:32 let us know
0:16:32 and we can hop
0:16:33 on a quick call.
0:16:34 And so,
0:16:35 this works really well
0:16:36 because it optimizes
0:16:38 for that preview message
0:16:39 the influencer will see
0:16:39 in their inbox.
0:16:40 they only see
0:16:41 the first line
0:16:41 or two.
0:16:42 The paid promo
0:16:43 is what sticks out.
0:16:45 And which influencer
0:16:46 took,
0:16:47 what was your,
0:16:47 who was it?
0:16:49 And where’d you,
0:16:49 where’d you get the money,
0:16:49 right?
0:16:50 So,
0:16:50 you’re saying paid promo,
0:16:51 but your kids,
0:16:52 are you like,
0:16:53 hey dad,
0:16:53 can we get five grand
0:16:54 to like seed money
0:16:55 to try this?
0:16:56 Where’d the money
0:16:57 come from to start?
0:16:58 Sure.
0:16:58 So,
0:17:00 before building Cal AI,
0:17:01 I actually built
0:17:03 an unblocked gaming website
0:17:04 my freshman year
0:17:04 of high school.
0:17:06 This website lets students
0:17:07 play games in class
0:17:08 while their teacher
0:17:09 was teaching.
0:17:11 bypassing the website
0:17:12 blocking protocols.
0:17:14 And I grew that
0:17:16 to 5 million users
0:17:16 through TikTok.
0:17:18 It was generating money
0:17:19 by putting ads
0:17:20 on the site.
0:17:21 And then I sold it.
0:17:21 So,
0:17:22 that’s where most
0:17:22 of the money came
0:17:23 in that we put into this.
0:17:24 By the way,
0:17:24 Sam,
0:17:26 that’s now the third
0:17:26 or fourth person
0:17:27 that’s come on this podcast
0:17:29 who has that same
0:17:30 origin story of,
0:17:32 I was in school,
0:17:33 they blocked games
0:17:34 on our school.
0:17:35 I’m guessing you guys
0:17:36 had like Chromebooks
0:17:36 or something like
0:17:37 some school computers.
0:17:37 you know,
0:17:38 very oddly,
0:17:39 Sean,
0:17:40 it was Val,
0:17:40 my friend Val,
0:17:41 who came on
0:17:42 and said his son
0:17:42 did it.
0:17:43 His son was doing that now?
0:17:44 Well,
0:17:44 they went to the same
0:17:44 high school.
0:17:45 Oh,
0:17:46 really?
0:17:46 Yeah.
0:17:47 Saeed Balki
0:17:48 said that that was
0:17:49 his origin story too
0:17:51 was he wanted to find
0:17:51 a way to play games
0:17:52 while at school
0:17:54 and then because of that
0:17:55 learned all these
0:17:56 different parts of coding
0:17:57 and technology
0:17:58 in order to make that happen
0:17:58 and that was their
0:17:59 first taste of money.
0:18:01 But Jess Ma,
0:18:02 same thing with gaming
0:18:03 servers at school.
0:18:04 So you had this,
0:18:06 you figured out,
0:18:06 all right,
0:18:07 we have these school laptops,
0:18:08 people want to play games,
0:18:08 they’re blocked.
0:18:09 How’d you get around
0:18:10 the block
0:18:11 and what was this thing
0:18:12 called?
0:18:14 The website was called
0:18:16 totallyscience.co
0:18:18 and that’s how it got
0:18:19 categorized as educational.
0:18:21 That was the main thing.
0:18:22 But we also had all
0:18:23 of these features
0:18:23 on the website.
0:18:24 For example,
0:18:26 if you press the tilde
0:18:27 key on the keyboard,
0:18:28 it would redirect
0:18:29 to Google Classroom.
0:18:30 so if the teacher
0:18:30 was coming,
0:18:31 you could quickly
0:18:31 hide it.
0:18:32 Oh, nice.
0:18:33 Nice.
0:18:35 That’s crazy.
0:18:36 Hey,
0:18:37 how can you complain?
0:18:38 This is science.
0:18:38 Not only science.
0:18:39 This is totally science.
0:18:41 This is only science.
0:18:42 All right,
0:18:43 so you do that.
0:18:44 That company,
0:18:46 you were making how much
0:18:46 and you sold that
0:18:47 for how much?
0:18:49 It made $60,000
0:18:50 for two years
0:18:52 and then I sold it
0:18:54 for $100,000
0:18:55 when I was 16.
0:18:57 So this is like
0:18:58 the first sign
0:18:59 to have a kid,
0:19:00 to have your son
0:19:01 from your parents’ perspective
0:19:03 do $60,000 in revenue
0:19:04 and profit
0:19:05 or something like that
0:19:06 when they’re 14.
0:19:08 That’s like asking,
0:19:08 you know,
0:19:09 are you a drug dealer?
0:19:10 What’s going on?
0:19:11 How are you doing this?
0:19:12 Did that take convincing
0:19:13 on your end
0:19:14 to let them know
0:19:15 what you were doing
0:19:16 was totally legal?
0:19:17 At any point,
0:19:18 your parents are lawyers
0:19:18 where they’re like,
0:19:20 are you breaking any laws, man?
0:19:21 Are you sure
0:19:22 you’re on top of all this?
0:19:24 I definitely got questioned
0:19:25 about breaking laws
0:19:26 by my dad
0:19:27 a bunch of times.
0:19:28 He actually made me
0:19:30 put up a terms of service
0:19:31 that said in all caps,
0:19:33 you cannot use this
0:19:34 while in school.
0:19:35 This is only for breaks
0:19:36 or at home.
0:19:39 And my mom was always shocked
0:19:40 every time I actually
0:19:41 got a payout from Google.
0:19:43 I think maybe it was that
0:19:45 it didn’t sound like
0:19:45 a real business.
0:19:47 Unblocked Games website,
0:19:48 how could that make money?
0:19:49 But I actually had money
0:19:50 coming into my bank account
0:19:51 that was under her name
0:19:52 because I was too young
0:19:53 to open one
0:19:53 and she was shocked
0:19:54 Did you do anything cool
0:19:56 with it, the money?
0:19:58 Well, not really.
0:20:00 Honestly, I put all of it
0:20:01 into Cal AI
0:20:03 when we launched it.
0:20:04 It’s a pretty cool thing.
0:20:06 The only thing actually
0:20:07 that I’ve spent
0:20:08 the money I’ve made on,
0:20:09 and this was recent,
0:20:10 was my 18th birthday party.
0:20:12 I flew my friends out
0:20:13 to Miami
0:20:14 for a weekend trip
0:20:15 from Heinz School.
0:20:17 That’s awesome.
0:20:18 All right, sweet.
0:20:20 So you put the money
0:20:20 into Cal AI.
0:20:21 You got the money,
0:20:22 you reach out
0:20:22 to the influencers.
0:20:23 You said two influencers
0:20:24 start posting
0:20:26 and what are they posting?
0:20:28 Is there some science to it?
0:20:29 We just had, you know,
0:20:29 Rob the Bank on
0:20:30 talking about TikTok
0:20:32 as a distribution strategy
0:20:33 about what makes
0:20:34 great TikTok hooks
0:20:34 and videos
0:20:35 and how that game
0:20:36 is being played.
0:20:37 Do you know, Rob,
0:20:37 and I guess,
0:20:38 how have you guys
0:20:39 played that game
0:20:40 of short-form content
0:20:41 to grow your apps?
0:20:44 So Totally Science
0:20:45 and Cal AI
0:20:47 were a little different.
0:20:48 For Totally Science,
0:20:49 I was the one
0:20:50 making the videos myself.
0:20:51 I was recording
0:20:52 my screening class
0:20:52 saying,
0:20:53 hey, if you want to play
0:20:54 Unblocked Games,
0:20:55 go to this website,
0:20:56 and then I would put
0:20:58 a little thing,
0:20:59 a caption that says,
0:21:00 comment what game
0:21:00 to add next.
0:21:01 And that would
0:21:03 gather a ton of comments
0:21:04 making the video
0:21:04 go viral.
0:21:06 For Cal AI,
0:21:07 I’m not the one
0:21:08 making videos.
0:21:10 No one on the team is.
0:21:11 It’s all influencers.
0:21:13 So we still use
0:21:15 the knowledge from,
0:21:16 well,
0:21:16 what I learned
0:21:17 from Totally Science
0:21:19 to help these influencers
0:21:20 make videos
0:21:22 and make them go viral
0:21:23 to give ideas.
0:21:24 But for the most part,
0:21:26 we just pay the influencer
0:21:28 that fits our niche.
0:21:29 And then there are
0:21:30 the professionals.
0:21:31 They know what goes viral.
0:21:32 As long as we can
0:21:34 predict the ROI,
0:21:36 which we have a ton of
0:21:37 factors and variables
0:21:38 we look at,
0:21:40 then we let them
0:21:41 run with it.
0:21:42 You pay them on CPM
0:21:43 or how do you pay them?
0:21:46 So CPM would be a blessing.
0:21:48 And that’s the dream
0:21:48 for everyone
0:21:49 if you could do that
0:21:50 because then you guarantee
0:21:51 profitability.
0:21:52 But these influencers,
0:21:54 they need to be paid
0:21:55 usually in advance.
0:21:56 Otherwise,
0:21:57 they won’t do it.
0:21:57 They’ll have another brand
0:21:58 that’s willing to work
0:21:59 with them.
0:22:00 So you have to predict
0:22:03 before they make any video
0:22:03 how many views
0:22:04 they’re going to get.
0:22:05 You’ll have to look
0:22:06 at their previous videos.
0:22:07 But then you also
0:22:08 have to keep in mind
0:22:09 not all views
0:22:09 are worth the same.
0:22:10 You have to analyze
0:22:11 the comment section
0:22:12 and see how strong
0:22:13 their community is.
0:22:14 And based on that,
0:22:16 weigh how much
0:22:16 you’re actually going
0:22:17 to pay them.
0:22:18 That’s wild.
0:22:18 So you,
0:22:21 is this thing pretty sticky
0:22:22 and where do you
0:22:23 want to take this?
0:22:23 So,
0:22:24 great,
0:22:25 you go viral,
0:22:26 you get people to download.
0:22:27 I’m assuming they hit
0:22:28 some paywall in the app
0:22:29 that says,
0:22:30 keep track of all
0:22:30 your calories,
0:22:31 blah, blah, blah.
0:22:33 Is it kind of one of
0:22:34 these churn and burn games
0:22:35 where it’s pretty profitable
0:22:35 for the first couple months
0:22:36 and then you lose people
0:22:38 or is it a sticky product?
0:22:40 So it’s sticky
0:22:42 for the power users.
0:22:44 They definitely stay around.
0:22:44 And,
0:22:46 I mean,
0:22:47 apps like MyFitnessPal,
0:22:48 they’re doing over
0:22:50 $100 million a year.
0:22:51 So I know
0:22:52 we could get there.
0:22:53 You look at
0:22:54 the reviews, Sean.
0:22:56 So he has 65,000 reviews
0:22:58 and it’s a 4.8
0:22:59 out of 5.
0:23:01 So this isn’t
0:23:02 like an arbitrage
0:23:03 or like a
0:23:04 get rich quick thing.
0:23:04 like people really
0:23:05 love the product.
0:23:06 Yeah,
0:23:07 what’s the churn
0:23:08 on these subscriptions?
0:23:10 We actually don’t know
0:23:11 because it hasn’t
0:23:12 been a year
0:23:14 and more than 95%
0:23:14 of our subscriptions
0:23:15 are annual.
0:23:16 Gotcha.
0:23:17 Okay,
0:23:17 but they’re still
0:23:18 using it presumably
0:23:19 so that,
0:23:20 you know,
0:23:20 if they’re using it,
0:23:21 they’ll stick with it.
0:23:21 Wow,
0:23:22 this is amazing.
0:23:23 And so you want
0:23:24 to take this
0:23:25 to be kind of
0:23:26 MyFitnessPal
0:23:27 or you’re like,
0:23:27 hey,
0:23:29 if somebody offered us,
0:23:29 you know,
0:23:30 a buttload of cash,
0:23:30 like I guess,
0:23:31 what’s your mindset?
0:23:32 Because I’m so curious
0:23:33 because if I was 18 years old,
0:23:34 I don’t know
0:23:35 what the hell
0:23:35 I’d be thinking.
0:23:36 Like I have no,
0:23:37 even now,
0:23:38 36 years old,
0:23:39 I still don’t really know
0:23:39 what the hell
0:23:40 I’d be thinking
0:23:41 in this position.
0:23:42 What’s the mindset
0:23:43 of an 18-year-old?
0:23:44 Because you got
0:23:45 many hits in you.
0:23:45 You know,
0:23:46 this may not be
0:23:47 the only one.
0:23:48 The same way
0:23:49 that you kind of
0:23:50 did a similar thing
0:23:51 in Totally Science
0:23:51 versus this,
0:23:52 but this just had
0:23:53 a much bigger market,
0:23:54 much more market potential.
0:23:56 You know,
0:23:56 you might be able
0:23:57 to do even more things
0:23:58 or is this something
0:23:58 you want to do
0:23:59 for a decade?
0:23:59 Yeah,
0:24:00 and does it feel like
0:24:02 you’re still breaking the law?
0:24:03 Like if you,
0:24:03 if anyone,
0:24:04 like if,
0:24:06 I don’t mean that.
0:24:06 He’s not breaking the law.
0:24:07 What are you talking about?
0:24:07 No,
0:24:08 what I mean is like
0:24:09 when you go zero
0:24:09 to $20 million
0:24:10 in revenue in eight months,
0:24:11 there’s some type
0:24:12 of like giddiness
0:24:13 of like,
0:24:13 I can’t believe
0:24:15 like this is my life.
0:24:15 I can’t believe
0:24:17 that this is allowed.
0:24:18 I don’t know.
0:24:18 There’s something,
0:24:19 there’s some type
0:24:21 of like matrix breaking idea
0:24:22 where you’re like questioning.
0:24:22 You’re like,
0:24:23 how is this possible?
0:24:25 Do you still have
0:24:25 that mentality
0:24:26 or are you like,
0:24:28 of course this is possible
0:24:29 and this is just step one?
0:24:31 I definitely have
0:24:33 the mentality of
0:24:34 it feels surreal.
0:24:35 I mean,
0:24:36 it feels nuts.
0:24:38 I’m 18 years old
0:24:38 and I’m making,
0:24:39 the company is going
0:24:40 to generate
0:24:41 over $24 million
0:24:42 this year.
0:24:43 That’s crazy.
0:24:44 The fact that I’m
0:24:45 on your podcast,
0:24:46 my first million
0:24:46 saying that,
0:24:47 it’s nuts.
0:24:48 And a year ago,
0:24:49 I wouldn’t believe it.
0:24:51 So I view this
0:24:52 as a stepping stone.
0:24:54 I want to build
0:24:54 a company
0:24:55 that touches
0:24:56 the lives
0:24:57 of billions
0:24:58 of people.
0:24:59 Something as ubiquitous
0:25:00 as the iPhone.
0:25:03 And I think Cal AI,
0:25:05 if we shifted
0:25:05 the idea
0:25:06 where maybe it’s
0:25:07 nutrition tracking
0:25:08 in general
0:25:09 and we could link
0:25:10 the photos
0:25:11 of what you’re eating
0:25:12 to your health,
0:25:13 that could be something
0:25:14 that touches the lives
0:25:14 of the billions
0:25:15 and that could be something
0:25:16 I could spend a decade on.
0:25:17 But I probably
0:25:18 don’t want to.
0:25:19 Instead,
0:25:20 I would want
0:25:21 this to be something
0:25:22 that sets me
0:25:23 financially free
0:25:24 where I don’t
0:25:25 need to think
0:25:25 about money,
0:25:26 where I’m not
0:25:27 incentivized
0:25:28 by generating
0:25:29 revenue,
0:25:30 and so I can
0:25:31 start another
0:25:31 company that
0:25:32 is purely
0:25:33 motivated by
0:25:34 impact
0:25:35 and scale
0:25:35 of impact,
0:25:36 something that
0:25:37 I’m passionate
0:25:38 about and can
0:25:38 spend a couple
0:25:39 decades on.
0:25:39 Sam,
0:25:40 I saw a post
0:25:41 today from
0:25:42 his partner,
0:25:42 Blake.
0:25:43 He posted
0:25:43 something on
0:25:45 Twitter today
0:25:45 and he said,
0:25:46 I guess he’s
0:25:47 working on
0:25:47 something called
0:25:48 10x and it
0:25:49 sounds like it’s
0:25:50 an app for
0:25:50 learning,
0:25:51 like, oh,
0:25:51 you can learn
0:25:51 anything.
0:25:52 You can learn
0:25:52 AI skills,
0:25:53 you can learn
0:25:54 language,
0:25:54 you can learn
0:25:55 whatever.
0:25:55 Sounds like
0:25:56 it’s a learning
0:25:56 tool,
0:25:58 which is more
0:25:59 in the direction
0:26:00 of kind of
0:26:00 good for the
0:26:01 world,
0:26:01 good for humanity,
0:26:02 impact style
0:26:03 thing that he’s
0:26:03 building.
0:26:04 And so it
0:26:05 sounds like he’s
0:26:06 kind of looking,
0:26:07 he started with
0:26:08 like you max,
0:26:08 which was
0:26:09 literally like
0:26:10 probably the
0:26:10 most superficial
0:26:11 thing.
0:26:11 It’s like,
0:26:11 how does my
0:26:12 face look and
0:26:13 what can I do
0:26:13 to make my
0:26:14 face look better
0:26:15 than his
0:26:16 Kali eye and
0:26:16 now he’s going
0:26:17 into like,
0:26:17 you know,
0:26:18 a learning tool.
0:26:19 It sounds like
0:26:19 you might want
0:26:20 to do the
0:26:20 same.
0:26:20 Was there
0:26:21 something that
0:26:22 triggered that
0:26:22 in you?
0:26:23 Like,
0:26:23 did you watch
0:26:24 like a movie
0:26:24 or do you
0:26:24 have like a
0:26:25 conversation
0:26:25 with a mentor
0:26:26 when you were
0:26:26 12 years old?
0:26:27 Like,
0:26:28 what made you
0:26:29 want to even,
0:26:29 what made you
0:26:30 think differently
0:26:31 than the average
0:26:32 high schooler
0:26:33 who’s hyper
0:26:34 focused on just
0:26:34 their grades
0:26:34 and,
0:26:35 you know,
0:26:36 just making
0:26:37 friends or
0:26:37 whatever’s just
0:26:38 in their little
0:26:38 pond?
0:26:39 It’s funny you
0:26:40 say movie.
0:26:41 The social network
0:26:43 totally had a
0:26:43 big impact on
0:26:43 me.
0:26:44 However,
0:26:45 I did also feel
0:26:46 this way before
0:26:46 that.
0:26:47 So that amplified
0:26:47 it.
0:26:48 That showed me
0:26:48 it’s possible
0:26:49 through specifically
0:26:50 software,
0:26:51 which made me
0:26:52 super motivated
0:26:52 to learn coding
0:26:53 even faster.
0:26:55 But I have,
0:26:56 I’m not sure
0:26:57 the initial
0:26:58 seed where it
0:26:59 was planted.
0:27:03 All right,
0:27:04 my friends,
0:27:05 I have exciting
0:27:05 news for that
0:27:06 business idea
0:27:06 that’s been
0:27:07 sitting in your
0:27:07 notes app.
0:27:08 The Hustle,
0:27:09 which is my
0:27:09 old company,
0:27:10 has partnered
0:27:11 with Indie
0:27:11 Hackers,
0:27:12 one of my
0:27:12 favorite websites,
0:27:13 to launch a
0:27:14 pitch competition.
0:27:15 It’s called
0:27:16 The Hustle’s
0:27:16 Big Break,
0:27:17 and it’s a
0:27:18 pitch competition
0:27:19 with a simple
0:27:19 premise.
0:27:20 You tell us
0:27:20 your business
0:27:21 idea in 60
0:27:22 seconds or less,
0:27:23 and the winner
0:27:24 gets $5,000
0:27:24 to turn it
0:27:25 into a reality.
0:27:26 Here’s how it
0:27:26 works.
0:27:27 Record a 60
0:27:28 second video
0:27:28 pitch of your
0:27:29 business idea.
0:27:30 Include your
0:27:30 business name,
0:27:31 description,
0:27:32 revenue model,
0:27:32 and tagline.
0:27:33 And finally,
0:27:34 submit it at
0:27:35 thehustle.co
0:27:37 slash big break,
0:27:37 and it all has
0:27:38 to be done by
0:27:39 April 4th.
0:27:40 The winner gets
0:27:41 $5,000 in cash
0:27:42 to kickstart
0:27:42 their business
0:27:43 journey.
0:27:44 Plus, we’re going
0:27:44 to feature them
0:27:45 in The Hustle’s
0:27:46 daily newsletter,
0:27:47 which is read by
0:27:47 around a million
0:27:48 and a half people,
0:27:49 and these are the
0:27:50 smartest business
0:27:51 and tech folks
0:27:51 out there.
0:27:52 The winner will
0:27:52 be announced
0:27:54 on April 11th.
0:27:54 So again,
0:27:55 if you have a
0:27:55 business idea,
0:27:57 go to thehustle.co
0:27:59 slash big break.
0:28:00 All right,
0:28:01 back to the pot.
0:28:03 What do you think
0:28:04 the app is worth
0:28:05 right now?
0:28:07 Right now,
0:28:09 I think the app
0:28:11 calculating its,
0:28:12 or taking its growth
0:28:13 into account
0:28:15 is close to
0:28:16 $100 million
0:28:18 in valuation.
0:28:19 Which means you are
0:28:20 presumably worth
0:28:21 in the ballpark
0:28:22 of $30 million.
0:28:25 I think liquid
0:28:26 and on paper
0:28:27 is really different.
0:28:28 Oh, I know,
0:28:30 but you’re totally
0:28:30 right.
0:28:32 But like 17,
0:28:33 18 years old
0:28:34 worth tens of
0:28:35 millions of dollars,
0:28:35 I think,
0:28:36 is like a fair
0:28:37 ballpark.
0:28:37 Would you agree?
0:28:39 I would agree.
0:28:41 Yeah, that’s amazing,
0:28:41 man.
0:28:41 Congratulations.
0:28:43 I’m really,
0:28:44 I’m really inspired
0:28:46 by you.
0:28:47 And I would say
0:28:48 there’s like a handful
0:28:48 of people I’ve discovered
0:28:49 that are kind of like you
0:28:51 who are super young
0:28:52 that are basically
0:28:53 AI first.
0:28:54 So all the tools
0:28:55 you’re building,
0:28:56 you build with AI
0:28:56 because why would you not?
0:28:58 You like code them
0:28:58 with AI,
0:29:00 the app uses AI,
0:29:01 the users get
0:29:03 an AI type of experience
0:29:05 and you figured out
0:29:07 a growth channel
0:29:07 that I think
0:29:09 a bunch of old guys
0:29:09 like us
0:29:11 kind of suck at
0:29:12 because you have
0:29:13 what I call
0:29:14 the bear on a bicycle
0:29:15 phenomenon.
0:29:16 So my friend Chris Williamson
0:29:17 said this to me.
0:29:17 He goes,
0:29:19 you basically want
0:29:20 to stack two skills
0:29:22 that usually don’t go together
0:29:22 and it creates
0:29:23 something remarkable.
0:29:23 So, you know,
0:29:24 you see a bear.
0:29:25 Wow, that’s a bear.
0:29:26 Okay, but I’ve seen bears.
0:29:27 You see your,
0:29:28 you see a bicycle.
0:29:29 Okay, that’s a bicycle,
0:29:29 but you see a bear
0:29:30 on a bicycle.
0:29:31 Holy shit.
0:29:32 Never seen that before.
0:29:32 That’s amazing.
0:29:33 And for you,
0:29:34 that’s basically like,
0:29:35 you know how to code,
0:29:36 but a lot of kids
0:29:36 know how to code.
0:29:38 And it’s this other piece
0:29:39 that you also had,
0:29:41 which was the knowledge of,
0:29:42 and you even said it
0:29:43 in your video,
0:29:43 video editing
0:29:45 and just making fun videos.
0:29:47 This kind of
0:29:48 the TikTok knowledge
0:29:49 and you combined
0:29:50 how to make TikToks
0:29:51 that will get views
0:29:52 with how to make
0:29:53 apps that work
0:29:54 and that is your
0:29:56 bear on a bicycle thing.
0:29:57 And so I’m pretty inspired
0:29:57 because there’s actually
0:29:58 like a group of people
0:29:59 who are just like you
0:30:00 and I would say
0:30:01 right now is like
0:30:03 a very golden window
0:30:04 for that group of people
0:30:05 to go build things.
0:30:06 Like, and, you know,
0:30:07 hopefully people listening
0:30:07 to this,
0:30:07 hopefully there’s,
0:30:08 you know,
0:30:09 we trigger another
0:30:11 20 to 100 people
0:30:12 just like you
0:30:13 who hear this story
0:30:13 and are like,
0:30:15 you’re their social network,
0:30:15 right?
0:30:16 They’re going to hear this
0:30:16 and they’re going to start
0:30:17 doing it.
0:30:18 that set of skills
0:30:19 I think is very,
0:30:20 very valuable
0:30:21 for this moment in time.
0:30:23 I totally agree.
0:30:24 And that’s honestly
0:30:25 why I’m super motivated
0:30:26 to go on podcasts
0:30:27 like these.
0:30:29 I was super motivated
0:30:30 by others before me
0:30:31 that I’ve watched
0:30:32 on podcasts
0:30:33 and so this is almost
0:30:34 a full circle moment
0:30:36 for me to come on here.
0:30:38 Yeah, that’s interesting.
0:30:39 Sam, would you be
0:30:39 going on podcasts?
0:30:40 Because like, you know,
0:30:41 while you’re here,
0:30:42 I’m like,
0:30:43 oh, this is great content.
0:30:43 I’m excited.
0:30:44 But then there’s like
0:30:45 the fatherly part of me
0:30:46 that’s like, shut up,
0:30:47 dude, just shut up.
0:30:48 Why are you on the podcast?
0:30:49 You shouldn’t be saying
0:30:50 any of this stuff
0:30:51 because you have
0:30:52 such a good thing going
0:30:54 and you can always
0:30:54 tell the story
0:30:55 a little later.
0:30:56 You don’t need to invite,
0:30:57 you know,
0:30:59 the other Zach Yadigaris
0:31:00 of the world
0:31:01 who are, you know,
0:31:02 they can code,
0:31:03 they can make TikToks,
0:31:04 they got cool haircuts
0:31:05 like you,
0:31:05 and they’re just going
0:31:06 to do the same thing,
0:31:06 right?
0:31:07 So like,
0:31:08 why go on
0:31:09 and spill your secrets?
0:31:11 You know,
0:31:11 why do that?
0:31:15 So I’ve heard this before
0:31:18 that usually you know
0:31:19 what it takes
0:31:20 or people usually know
0:31:21 what it takes
0:31:22 to be successful,
0:31:24 but then they are looking
0:31:26 for an easier way.
0:31:27 They’re looking for something
0:31:31 that is not as burdensome,
0:31:32 not as hard,
0:31:33 doesn’t require as much sacrifice.
0:31:35 And I’ve been coding
0:31:36 since I was seven.
0:31:37 I’m 18 now.
0:31:40 That’s 11 years of coding.
0:31:41 I’ve started
0:31:42 totally science
0:31:43 and before that
0:31:44 I was tutoring kids
0:31:45 and coding lessons
0:31:47 for almost a decade
0:31:48 of my life.
0:31:50 I was in the entrepreneur game.
0:31:52 And so I think that,
0:31:52 yes,
0:31:53 I can share
0:31:54 all of this information
0:31:54 publicly,
0:31:56 but it’s only
0:31:57 a select few
0:31:59 who will actually
0:32:00 work towards it
0:32:02 and put in
0:32:03 the amount of hours
0:32:04 required
0:32:05 to achieve the result
0:32:07 where I want
0:32:08 to help those people.
0:32:10 I think helping
0:32:11 those people
0:32:12 achieve the same success,
0:32:13 especially if they were
0:32:14 in a situation like mine
0:32:15 where they maybe
0:32:16 weren’t entirely sure
0:32:16 where to go,
0:32:17 but they knew
0:32:18 there was a world
0:32:18 out there
0:32:19 where they could have
0:32:20 massive impact
0:32:21 at such a young age,
0:32:23 even balancing school
0:32:24 on the side.
0:32:26 And so I completely
0:32:27 support those people.
0:32:29 you have a trait
0:32:31 that Sean and I’s
0:32:32 good buddy Jack Smith
0:32:33 is the perfect
0:32:34 embodiment of this trait.
0:32:36 But a lot of entrepreneurs
0:32:37 are,
0:32:37 which is
0:32:39 you’re logical,
0:32:41 which a lot of times
0:32:42 will be awkward
0:32:44 on a day-to-day level.
0:32:44 For example,
0:32:45 my friend Jack,
0:32:48 he does things
0:32:48 so differently
0:32:49 from everyone
0:32:51 because his way
0:32:52 is actually better,
0:32:52 but we’ve all done it
0:32:53 in such a way
0:32:54 for 100 plus years
0:32:55 that we’re like,
0:32:55 well, I don’t know,
0:32:56 we just do it this way.
0:32:57 And so, for example,
0:32:59 he didn’t name his daughter
0:33:00 the first year
0:33:01 because he was like,
0:33:02 I have to get to know her
0:33:03 before I can name her.
0:33:03 And I was like,
0:33:04 yeah, that makes total sense.
0:33:05 It’s just strange to think about.
0:33:07 You have that type of energy.
0:33:08 You said,
0:33:10 well, I’m worrying about grades
0:33:11 so I can get a good job
0:33:12 or get into a good college
0:33:12 and get a good job
0:33:13 and make good money.
0:33:14 What if I just make money now?
0:33:16 That way of thinking
0:33:17 is amazing.
0:33:19 And it’s really fun
0:33:20 to be around people like you.
0:33:20 And so,
0:33:22 I want to hear your perspective
0:33:23 on a few things,
0:33:24 this fresh thinking
0:33:24 on a few things.
0:33:25 The first is,
0:33:26 you have 15 employees.
0:33:28 do you have any employees
0:33:29 who are in their 30s
0:33:30 or 40s?
0:33:32 And what’s it like
0:33:33 having to go
0:33:34 from being just
0:33:35 you and your buddies
0:33:35 in a room
0:33:36 messing around
0:33:37 to at 15 people,
0:33:38 you’re actually running
0:33:39 a real company?
0:33:41 So, yes,
0:33:43 we do have employees
0:33:44 that are in their 40s.
0:33:46 And it’s difficult
0:33:50 to be honest with you.
0:33:52 It’s hard at times.
0:33:54 To make them call you sir.
0:33:57 I do not make them call me sir.
0:33:59 But it is difficult,
0:34:01 especially when I have to fire someone
0:34:02 that has kids.
0:34:07 And I do have imposter syndrome
0:34:08 at times,
0:34:09 which is something
0:34:11 I try to not let
0:34:12 hold me back ever.
0:34:12 So,
0:34:13 even if I think a certain way,
0:34:15 I still act
0:34:16 how I know I should.
0:34:18 I’m reading this great book
0:34:18 right now
0:34:19 called The Great CEO Within.
0:34:21 I also keep it on my desk
0:34:22 as a reminder.
0:34:24 And it helps me lead.
0:34:26 I try to be an inspiring leader
0:34:29 that helps people,
0:34:31 that doesn’t lead
0:34:31 by telling people
0:34:32 what to do
0:34:34 and just do it now.
0:34:35 I try to inspire them
0:34:37 to want to do the work.
0:34:39 Does your staff,
0:34:41 are you guys
0:34:42 a well-organized company,
0:34:42 you think?
0:34:43 Or is it a shit show?
0:34:46 I think that
0:34:47 we are pretty well-organized
0:34:49 and that’s mainly credited
0:34:50 to our COO
0:34:52 and the third co-founder
0:34:52 I didn’t mention,
0:34:53 Jake Castillo.
0:34:55 He’s really good
0:34:55 at organization.
0:34:57 So,
0:34:57 one of the things
0:34:58 we talked about was like,
0:34:59 you know,
0:35:01 why come and talk about this?
0:35:02 And part of you was like,
0:35:02 well,
0:35:03 I want to inspire other people,
0:35:04 but we don’t want to inspire
0:35:06 just a bunch of copycats.
0:35:07 And so we asked you,
0:35:07 we were like,
0:35:07 hey,
0:35:08 what are some other ideas
0:35:10 that if you weren’t doing this,
0:35:10 you think somebody
0:35:11 could go do right now?
0:35:12 So,
0:35:13 how can the next you,
0:35:15 how can the next high schooler
0:35:16 get to where you’re at?
0:35:17 $20 million a year
0:35:18 in revenue
0:35:19 as a 17,
0:35:19 18-year-old.
0:35:19 So,
0:35:20 what ideas do you have for us?
0:35:21 Sure.
0:35:22 So,
0:35:22 obviously,
0:35:23 you know,
0:35:24 you could teach a man to fish
0:35:25 or you could give a man a fish.
0:35:26 Teaching is better.
0:35:26 So,
0:35:27 I have a few frameworks,
0:35:29 which I think will help even more,
0:35:31 but I also will give some ideas.
0:35:32 Okay,
0:35:32 go for it.
0:35:35 how I usually look at these AI problems
0:35:36 or not AI problems,
0:35:38 but creating something new in general
0:35:41 is that AI has enabled people
0:35:44 to basically build on top of
0:35:46 and innovate on any tool
0:35:50 or company that exists right now.
0:35:50 So,
0:35:53 the calendar was innovated on
0:35:55 and now there are AI calendar tools
0:35:56 like Motion,
0:35:58 which help you organize
0:35:59 and structure your day
0:36:00 a lot easier,
0:36:01 your assistant.
0:36:03 there are note-taking tools
0:36:04 where people have always
0:36:06 taken notes by hand.
0:36:08 People have also recorded lectures,
0:36:10 but now there are AI platforms
0:36:12 like TurboLearn AI
0:36:14 where you can record your lecture
0:36:16 and then the AI
0:36:17 will generate notes for you.
0:36:20 Calorie tracking.
0:36:22 There have always been calorie trackers,
0:36:23 but now with AI,
0:36:25 you can just take a picture of your food
0:36:26 and it will tell you the calories.
0:36:27 So,
0:36:29 I try to look at everything
0:36:32 that doesn’t already use AI
0:36:33 and think,
0:36:35 can AI make this more efficient,
0:36:37 make this a better process?
0:36:39 And
0:36:41 my perspective
0:36:43 on coming up with new ideas
0:36:46 is generally that
0:36:48 I want to find something
0:36:50 looking at it
0:36:52 from marketing-first principles
0:36:54 is how I always think.
0:36:55 So,
0:36:57 almost going backwards
0:36:58 and
0:36:59 I look for
0:37:00 an aha moment
0:37:01 that I could capture
0:37:03 within some sort of experience
0:37:04 and then
0:37:06 wrap a whole
0:37:07 app
0:37:08 around that.
0:37:08 So,
0:37:09 for Cal AI,
0:37:10 the aha moment
0:37:11 is take a picture of your food,
0:37:12 get the calories.
0:37:13 And that’s great
0:37:14 for marketing material.
0:37:15 They come on,
0:37:16 they do that,
0:37:17 but then there’s a whole app
0:37:18 around that
0:37:19 that gets them to stay.
0:37:20 There’s
0:37:22 another app
0:37:23 on the app store right now
0:37:24 called Fitness AI
0:37:25 and
0:37:26 their ads
0:37:27 recently have
0:37:28 been around
0:37:30 their AI body scanner
0:37:31 where you just take a picture
0:37:32 of your body
0:37:33 and then it will tell you
0:37:34 your body fat percentage
0:37:35 and
0:37:37 a ton of other useful information
0:37:38 on your composition.
0:37:39 So,
0:37:40 that’s what draws people in
0:37:41 to that AI tool
0:37:42 which is the aha moment
0:37:44 and then there’s a whole
0:37:45 fitness app around
0:37:46 that you stay
0:37:46 to
0:37:48 track your workouts
0:37:48 on that app.
0:37:50 So,
0:37:50 that’s the framework
0:37:52 I generally like to use.
0:37:52 And so,
0:37:53 what do you think is,
0:37:54 so you’re saying
0:37:55 work backwards
0:37:56 from the magic moment
0:37:57 where AI does a magic trick
0:37:58 and you’re like,
0:37:58 holy shit,
0:37:59 that’s cool
0:38:00 and then build a sticky,
0:38:01 you know,
0:38:01 for you guys,
0:38:02 let’s take a picture,
0:38:03 get the calories
0:38:03 and then you have
0:38:04 the tracking
0:38:05 and the charts
0:38:06 and the other stuff
0:38:07 that’s going to keep them,
0:38:08 maybe the coaching tips
0:38:09 or whatever
0:38:10 that’s going to
0:38:10 keep them around
0:38:11 in the long term.
0:38:11 Cool,
0:38:12 got it.
0:38:13 And the other thing
0:38:14 you’re saying is
0:38:15 take any app
0:38:15 that’s popular
0:38:16 that we’ve already
0:38:17 been doing
0:38:18 and just say,
0:38:19 what’s the AI version
0:38:19 of this?
0:38:21 Is that the brainstorming
0:38:22 session you would do
0:38:22 is basically like,
0:38:23 all right,
0:38:23 Evernote,
0:38:25 what’s the AI version
0:38:25 of Evernote?
0:38:26 Or,
0:38:27 you know,
0:38:28 our buddy
0:38:30 in San Francisco,
0:38:30 I mean,
0:38:31 Sam’s buddy,
0:38:31 Siava,
0:38:32 he had this company
0:38:32 called StudySoup
0:38:34 and StudySoup
0:38:34 was literally
0:38:35 for college kids,
0:38:36 they would have
0:38:37 paid note takers
0:38:38 who would take
0:38:39 great notes
0:38:39 in a lecture
0:38:40 and then you had,
0:38:40 you basically had
0:38:41 the slackers
0:38:42 and you had the kids
0:38:43 that were on top
0:38:43 of things.
0:38:44 kids on top
0:38:44 of things
0:38:45 where the supply
0:38:46 side of the marketplace,
0:38:46 they would give
0:38:47 their notes
0:38:48 and the slackers
0:38:49 would buy their notes
0:38:49 and say,
0:38:49 oh,
0:38:49 cool,
0:38:50 I don’t have
0:38:51 to take notes
0:38:51 in this class
0:38:52 because I’m getting
0:38:52 them done for me
0:38:53 and you’re saying,
0:38:54 you’re basically saying
0:38:55 that Turbolone
0:38:55 has become
0:38:56 an AI version
0:38:57 of StudySoup,
0:38:57 right,
0:38:58 where it’s like
0:38:59 someone records it
0:38:59 and now you have,
0:39:01 you have,
0:39:02 you have well,
0:39:03 well taken AI notes
0:39:03 for your,
0:39:04 for that class.
0:39:04 Yeah,
0:39:05 exactly.
0:39:06 so what are
0:39:06 some examples?
0:39:07 Yeah,
0:39:08 so here’s an idea.
0:39:10 I’ve actually seen
0:39:11 something like this
0:39:13 or recently on Twitter,
0:39:14 I saw something blow up,
0:39:15 maybe it was a couple
0:39:16 months ago,
0:39:16 not so recent,
0:39:17 where someone put
0:39:18 a bunch of their
0:39:19 journal entries
0:39:20 into ChatGPT
0:39:21 and then asked,
0:39:22 what are some insights
0:39:23 you could give me
0:39:24 to make my life better?
0:39:25 You got it.
0:39:26 And I both do that.
0:39:27 Yeah,
0:39:28 well that’s great.
0:39:29 So I think
0:39:30 there is
0:39:31 the possibility
0:39:31 and I think
0:39:32 this would be
0:39:32 a great idea
0:39:34 to build a journal app
0:39:35 and these journal apps
0:39:36 already exist.
0:39:37 So take an existing one,
0:39:38 put your,
0:39:39 and this is the spin.
0:39:41 So you could make it
0:39:42 voice notes,
0:39:43 you can make it typing,
0:39:44 whatever,
0:39:44 doesn’t matter.
0:39:46 But the key feature,
0:39:47 the aha moment
0:39:48 AI feature you implement
0:39:50 is that periodically
0:39:51 you will have
0:39:52 these insights
0:39:53 generated
0:39:54 from the AI
0:39:55 on how you can
0:39:55 improve your life.
0:39:56 Like,
0:39:56 hey,
0:39:57 on Monday and Tuesday
0:39:58 you hung out with Sally
0:39:59 and you had a bad day.
0:40:00 Maybe Sally is the cause
0:40:01 of your bad days.
0:40:03 Gotcha.
0:40:03 Okay,
0:40:04 I like that.
0:40:05 so AI journal.
0:40:07 I feel like
0:40:08 with the kind
0:40:09 of younger generation,
0:40:10 I feel like therapy
0:40:12 is a lot more normalized.
0:40:13 Therapy is cool,
0:40:14 basically,
0:40:15 whereas in my generation
0:40:16 and my parents,
0:40:17 my parents’ generation
0:40:17 was like,
0:40:18 therapy equals
0:40:19 you’re broken,
0:40:20 you have a problem.
0:40:22 And it was like,
0:40:22 you know,
0:40:23 more taboo.
0:40:24 The whole idea
0:40:25 of Sopranos
0:40:25 was a guy
0:40:27 who goes to therapy
0:40:28 and now his friends
0:40:28 are going to murder him
0:40:29 because he’s so soft.
0:40:30 Yeah,
0:40:31 exactly.
0:40:32 And now I feel like
0:40:33 with the younger generation,
0:40:34 it’s almost like
0:40:36 a cool thing to do.
0:40:37 I don’t know,
0:40:37 maybe I’m speaking out my ass here.
0:40:38 You tell me if I’m wrong.
0:40:41 But it’s way more normalized.
0:40:43 It’s not a taboo thing.
0:40:43 And in fact,
0:40:46 probably being anti-therapy
0:40:46 would be a little bit
0:40:48 low status now
0:40:48 at this point.
0:40:50 And I feel like
0:40:51 what the problem
0:40:51 with therapy,
0:40:51 of course,
0:40:53 is that it’s
0:40:53 A,
0:40:54 a little bit of a loaded word
0:40:55 and B,
0:40:55 you know,
0:40:56 who’s paying $100 a session
0:40:57 for this type of stuff
0:40:58 when you could have
0:40:59 the AI therapist
0:41:00 in your pocket,
0:41:01 whether they’re
0:41:02 using your journal entries
0:41:03 as the starting point,
0:41:03 the magic moment,
0:41:05 or not.
0:41:05 What do you think
0:41:06 of that space?
0:41:06 Do you think
0:41:06 there’s something
0:41:07 interesting there?
0:41:10 I think AI therapists
0:41:12 are something that
0:41:12 a lot of people
0:41:13 have spoken about
0:41:15 and I haven’t seen
0:41:17 anyone do it great.
0:41:18 There are definitely
0:41:19 apps already.
0:41:19 where you could
0:41:20 talk to people,
0:41:21 chatbots,
0:41:22 but I think
0:41:23 they’re all missing
0:41:25 the feeling
0:41:26 that you are
0:41:27 actually being heard
0:41:29 that the feeling
0:41:30 you would get
0:41:32 talking to a real therapist.
0:41:34 So maybe it’s
0:41:35 the verbal aspect
0:41:36 that’s missing
0:41:37 and something like
0:41:38 ChatGPT’s voice mode
0:41:39 integrating that
0:41:40 can now actually
0:41:41 make it a better session
0:41:42 than just typing.
0:41:44 But that is a good idea
0:41:45 that uses the AI spin
0:41:46 for sure.
0:41:47 Gotcha.
0:41:49 And what are some
0:41:49 other ideas you have?
0:41:50 You have two more
0:41:51 it looks like you
0:41:52 wrote on here, yeah?
0:41:54 So the first one
0:41:56 is some kind of system
0:41:57 or pipeline
0:41:58 to convert
0:41:59 an Android app
0:42:00 or an iOS app
0:42:01 to the other.
0:42:03 And this is
0:42:03 something that would
0:42:05 greatly help startups.
0:42:06 When we started
0:42:06 CalAI,
0:42:07 we built it
0:42:08 on Swift.
0:42:10 And that’s because
0:42:11 Swift,
0:42:12 usually you can make
0:42:13 a much smoother
0:42:14 user experience
0:42:15 on iPhones
0:42:16 using something
0:42:17 like React Native
0:42:18 which can build
0:42:19 to both iOS
0:42:20 and Android.
0:42:21 It’s more difficult
0:42:22 because it’s not
0:42:22 actually using
0:42:23 the native components
0:42:24 to make something
0:42:25 that feels
0:42:26 super polished
0:42:27 on an iPhone.
0:42:29 after building it,
0:42:30 we had all
0:42:31 of this demand
0:42:32 for an Android
0:42:32 app.
0:42:34 And it was
0:42:35 problematic.
0:42:36 We had to
0:42:37 take away from
0:42:37 development time
0:42:38 on the iOS app
0:42:39 to build out
0:42:40 the Android app
0:42:41 and we had to
0:42:41 release it
0:42:42 a few months
0:42:42 after.
0:42:44 It was,
0:42:45 it costed us
0:42:46 thousands of dollars,
0:42:47 tens of thousands
0:42:48 of dollars.
0:42:48 And every time
0:42:49 you build a feature
0:42:49 you have to build it
0:42:50 twice.
0:42:50 You have to build it
0:42:51 on one
0:42:52 and then on the other.
0:42:52 Yes,
0:42:53 every single time.
0:42:54 So,
0:42:55 it’s annoying.
0:42:57 I think with all
0:42:58 these AI tools,
0:43:00 there is definitely
0:43:01 the possibility
0:43:02 to build something
0:43:04 that lets you
0:43:05 upload the code base
0:43:07 to one native project
0:43:08 and then it will
0:43:09 convert it
0:43:10 to the other.
0:43:10 Now,
0:43:11 right now,
0:43:12 I think
0:43:14 AI can probably
0:43:15 do 90%
0:43:16 of the work
0:43:17 but there will need
0:43:18 to be a tiny bit
0:43:19 of human intervention
0:43:20 so maybe this would be
0:43:21 best done
0:43:22 as an agency.
0:43:23 that’s very AI-powered
0:43:24 at the moment
0:43:25 but very soon
0:43:26 it’s going to be
0:43:26 something where
0:43:27 an AI agent
0:43:29 can do it all
0:43:29 for you.
0:43:30 Yeah,
0:43:30 that’s a really
0:43:31 good idea.
0:43:32 We used to use
0:43:32 something,
0:43:34 I had an app
0:43:34 like years ago,
0:43:35 a roommate’s app,
0:43:37 a roommate finding app
0:43:38 and what was it called
0:43:38 where we used something
0:43:40 that turned a web app
0:43:41 into an iPhone app?
0:43:41 I mean,
0:43:42 there’s been a lot
0:43:42 of tools like that.
0:43:43 And they were horrible.
0:43:44 Like,
0:43:44 it was like,
0:43:46 it was really bad
0:43:47 but they were huge companies.
0:43:48 Yeah,
0:43:49 yeah,
0:43:49 yeah,
0:43:50 because this is a problem,
0:43:50 right?
0:43:50 Like,
0:43:52 you have to maintain
0:43:54 every feature
0:43:55 you have to build
0:43:55 twice.
0:43:57 Every platform
0:43:58 has its own bugs
0:43:59 and you basically
0:43:59 have to hire
0:44:00 double the number
0:44:00 of people
0:44:01 because the Android
0:44:01 guy focused on Android
0:44:02 and the iOS guy
0:44:03 focused on iOS
0:44:03 and so now you have
0:44:04 more head count.
0:44:05 And so you always
0:44:06 want this thing
0:44:07 that’s like,
0:44:08 but you need,
0:44:09 but still,
0:44:09 you’re right,
0:44:11 like having it be native
0:44:12 actually results
0:44:13 in a better user experience,
0:44:14 more stickiness,
0:44:15 more revenue,
0:44:15 et cetera.
0:44:16 so if you try
0:44:17 to do the web app
0:44:18 thing and you just
0:44:18 put a web app
0:44:19 and you try to wrap it,
0:44:20 it doesn’t work
0:44:21 as well as doing
0:44:22 a native app.
0:44:24 And so you’re right
0:44:24 that basically AI
0:44:25 coding is getting
0:44:26 so good
0:44:27 that you could do
0:44:28 70,
0:44:28 80,
0:44:30 90% of the code
0:44:30 transfer
0:44:32 just through AI
0:44:33 and then maybe
0:44:35 you do it
0:44:35 as an agency
0:44:35 or you have
0:44:36 one person
0:44:37 who’s doing
0:44:37 that last,
0:44:38 kind of the last
0:44:38 mile to get it
0:44:39 to work well.
0:44:41 That’s cool.
0:44:41 What about this
0:44:42 remotely configurable
0:44:43 onboarding flows?
0:44:44 this sounds like
0:44:45 to use a framework,
0:44:45 you know,
0:44:46 it’s a paper cut
0:44:47 you have,
0:44:47 right?
0:44:48 So some of the best
0:44:49 places to find
0:44:50 startup ideas
0:44:51 is you’re trying
0:44:51 to do a startup
0:44:53 and in the process
0:44:54 of trying to do it,
0:44:55 you run into something
0:44:55 that’s like,
0:44:55 God,
0:44:56 I wish somebody
0:44:57 had just built this
0:44:58 and maybe you build it
0:44:59 in-house
0:45:00 or you just keep
0:45:01 dealing with the pain
0:45:02 and that’s a very good
0:45:03 source for startup ideas.
0:45:05 Yes,
0:45:06 I have heard that
0:45:07 piece of advice
0:45:08 to work at a startup
0:45:10 to come up with new ideas
0:45:11 and it’s 100% true.
0:45:13 So while working
0:45:14 on Cal.ai
0:45:15 and then a few other apps
0:45:16 before Cal.ai
0:45:18 while I was learning
0:45:19 how the whole
0:45:20 consumer app space works,
0:45:22 every app
0:45:23 you have to build out
0:45:24 the onboarding flow.
0:45:25 Every popular app
0:45:26 on the app store
0:45:26 has one.
0:45:28 It generally will ask
0:45:29 the questions
0:45:30 that are either required
0:45:31 to set up your account
0:45:34 or simply to prime you
0:45:35 for what’s coming
0:45:37 to explain something
0:45:38 that’s going on
0:45:39 in the app
0:45:40 or to ask you questions
0:45:42 that set your mind
0:45:43 in the right direction
0:45:45 to maybe help you convert
0:45:46 when they actually
0:45:47 hit you with a paywall.
0:45:49 And
0:45:52 there is no good solution
0:45:52 right now
0:45:53 to build these.
0:45:55 Everyone has to do it
0:45:55 custom
0:45:57 in their own code base.
0:45:58 But someone could
0:46:00 really easily
0:46:01 make a system
0:46:01 where
0:46:03 anyone can
0:46:04 swap out
0:46:04 the questions
0:46:06 remotely
0:46:07 do A-B tests
0:46:08 on these
0:46:09 which
0:46:10 another problem here
0:46:11 is that
0:46:12 anytime you want to
0:46:13 test out something new
0:46:14 within your
0:46:15 onboarding flow
0:46:16 or within your app
0:46:16 in general
0:46:18 you have to submit
0:46:19 an update to the app store
0:46:20 which could take a few days.
0:46:22 So building out a system
0:46:22 where you can
0:46:23 build out
0:46:24 the whole onboarding
0:46:24 survey questions
0:46:26 and then also
0:46:27 change
0:46:28 what the screens are
0:46:29 see how that affects
0:46:30 conversion rates
0:46:31 see how that affects
0:46:32 completion rate
0:46:33 drop-off rate
0:46:34 remotely
0:46:35 would be huge.
0:46:36 Are you
0:46:38 the type of person
0:46:38 that
0:46:39 even though you have
0:46:40 a full-time gig
0:46:42 you are experimenting
0:46:42 on new ideas
0:46:43 that are unrelated
0:46:44 to Cal AI?
0:46:45 So
0:46:48 for the last few months
0:46:49 I kind of was.
0:46:50 We
0:46:52 were
0:46:53 orienting ourselves
0:46:54 as an app studio
0:46:55 very briefly
0:46:57 and the idea
0:46:57 behind that
0:46:58 was that
0:46:59 our real sauce
0:47:00 was in our marketing
0:47:01 not in our
0:47:02 app development
0:47:03 and so we could
0:47:04 build a bunch
0:47:05 of these other
0:47:06 AI apps
0:47:07 spin them up
0:47:07 apply the same
0:47:08 marketing
0:47:09 and blow them up
0:47:10 really fast
0:47:11 but
0:47:12 at the scale
0:47:13 Cal AI
0:47:13 is
0:47:14 and the rate
0:47:15 it’s growing
0:47:16 we realized
0:47:17 pretty quickly
0:47:17 that
0:47:18 it made more sense
0:47:20 to stay full-time
0:47:20 on Cal AI
0:47:21 because
0:47:22 the same time
0:47:22 it would take
0:47:23 to build another app
0:47:24 and scale it
0:47:25 to six figures revenue
0:47:26 we could have
0:47:27 added an additional
0:47:28 seven figures
0:47:29 in revenue
0:47:30 to Cal AI
0:47:31 just because
0:47:32 everything boosts
0:47:32 each other
0:47:33 increasing retention
0:47:35 will increase
0:47:35 LTV
0:47:36 and as we
0:47:37 increase retention
0:47:38 we could increase
0:47:39 a funnel
0:47:40 so one plus one
0:47:41 can equal three
0:47:42 instead of two
0:47:43 I think that is
0:47:44 totally the right move
0:47:45 is there anything
0:47:46 Zach
0:47:46 you know
0:47:47 Sean and I are parents
0:47:48 and there’s a lot of people
0:47:48 who listen to this
0:47:49 who are parents
0:47:50 is there anything
0:47:51 that you
0:47:52 you seem
0:47:52 traditionally
0:47:53 obviously you’re
0:47:54 traditionally successful
0:47:55 but you also seem
0:47:56 like
0:47:58 you’re very thoughtful
0:47:59 I think
0:48:00 well spoken
0:48:00 thoughtful
0:48:01 like you seem
0:48:02 like you’d be
0:48:02 a good son
0:48:03 regardless
0:48:03 thank you
0:48:05 regardless of
0:48:05 if you
0:48:06 who cares
0:48:07 about this app
0:48:07 you know
0:48:07 like you
0:48:08 you
0:48:10 have your shit
0:48:10 together
0:48:11 at a very young age
0:48:12 emotionally
0:48:13 what do you think
0:48:14 that your parents
0:48:14 did
0:48:15 that set you up
0:48:17 to have this
0:48:18 success
0:48:20 or do you think
0:48:20 that
0:48:21 and this sounds
0:48:21 like a douchey
0:48:22 thing to say
0:48:23 were you just born
0:48:23 you know
0:48:24 interested
0:48:25 into this stuff
0:48:25 at a young age
0:48:26 you know
0:48:26 like there’s a lot
0:48:27 of like self-directed
0:48:27 people
0:48:30 I have four siblings
0:48:31 I am the second
0:48:32 oldest
0:48:33 and
0:48:35 from a young age
0:48:36 I was
0:48:38 very wired
0:48:39 to
0:48:40 want freedom
0:48:42 and I think
0:48:42 it becomes
0:48:43 I think it comes
0:48:44 from my siblings
0:48:45 if I wanted to
0:48:46 buy something
0:48:47 my parents would
0:48:48 have to buy
0:48:48 something for all
0:48:49 my siblings
0:48:50 so they wouldn’t
0:48:50 do it
0:48:51 I would have to
0:48:52 find the way
0:48:53 to pay for it
0:48:53 myself
0:48:54 that’s
0:48:54 what made
0:48:55 me start
0:48:55 teaching coding
0:48:56 lessons
0:48:57 at such a young
0:48:57 age
0:48:58 to earn money
0:48:59 and
0:49:02 related to that
0:49:03 I actually have a story
0:49:05 that when I was
0:49:05 10 years old
0:49:08 I wanted to
0:49:09 cook scrambled eggs
0:49:10 by myself
0:49:12 I don’t know
0:49:13 what it was
0:49:14 but I really wanted
0:49:14 independence
0:49:15 and freedom
0:49:16 so the independence
0:49:17 to just cook
0:49:17 myself breakfast
0:49:19 at 10
0:49:19 could have
0:49:20 burned the house
0:49:20 down
0:49:21 so my mom
0:49:22 didn’t let
0:49:22 me
0:49:24 and I got
0:49:25 so mad
0:49:26 about this
0:49:27 that she didn’t
0:49:27 trust me
0:49:29 to cook eggs
0:49:30 on my own
0:49:31 because she was
0:49:31 taking care of
0:49:32 my other siblings
0:49:33 getting them
0:49:33 ready for school
0:49:35 that I actually
0:49:35 ran away
0:49:37 from my house
0:49:38 and I ran
0:49:40 probably 15 minutes
0:49:41 from my house
0:49:43 to a local
0:49:44 soccer field
0:49:45 and the police
0:49:46 were called
0:49:46 I actually
0:49:47 got picked up
0:49:48 by them
0:49:48 and brought
0:49:49 back home
0:49:50 I was going
0:49:50 to come home
0:49:51 eventually
0:49:52 but you know
0:49:52 I did run
0:49:53 away
0:49:54 and
0:49:57 it’s really
0:49:58 been the freedom
0:49:58 that has been
0:49:59 the driving force
0:50:00 behind everything
0:50:02 the yearning
0:50:03 for freedom
0:50:04 well but you
0:50:05 have that now
0:50:07 somewhat
0:50:09 I still feel
0:50:10 confined
0:50:10 honestly
0:50:11 by being in
0:50:11 high school
0:50:12 I haven’t
0:50:13 dropped out
0:50:14 and I
0:50:15 want to
0:50:16 go to
0:50:17 college
0:50:19 just for the
0:50:19 social life
0:50:20 not obviously
0:50:21 to get a job
0:50:22 so
0:50:24 I feel
0:50:25 I always feel
0:50:26 almost trapped
0:50:27 in situations
0:50:27 where
0:50:28 the outcome
0:50:30 is determinant
0:50:31 on what someone
0:50:32 else decides
0:50:32 for me
0:50:33 not something
0:50:34 that I can
0:50:34 control for myself
0:50:35 and someone
0:50:36 has to accept
0:50:37 me into the
0:50:37 college
0:50:38 if I let my
0:50:39 grades drop
0:50:39 in high school
0:50:40 then they could
0:50:41 rescind me
0:50:42 even if I get
0:50:43 into the school
0:50:44 and I hate
0:50:44 that
0:50:45 but right
0:50:45 now
0:50:46 for the next
0:50:47 year at least
0:50:48 I think I have
0:50:48 to make that
0:50:49 sacrifice
0:50:50 and then when
0:50:50 I’m in college
0:50:51 I want to make
0:50:51 a good group
0:50:52 of friends
0:50:52 then drop out
0:50:52 so you’re
0:50:54 going to go
0:50:55 what’s your
0:50:56 GPA right now
0:50:57 my GPA
0:50:58 is a 4.0
0:50:59 and I do
0:50:59 want to go
0:51:01 what did you
0:51:02 get the SATs
0:51:02 yeah
0:51:04 so I took
0:51:05 the ACT
0:51:06 and I got
0:51:07 a 34
0:51:08 okay
0:51:09 so that’s
0:51:09 very good
0:51:09 I think
0:51:10 right
0:51:10 yeah
0:51:10 it’s like
0:51:11 two points
0:51:11 away from
0:51:12 it’s like
0:51:12 a 90
0:51:13 it’s a
0:51:14 99 percentile
0:51:14 98 percentile
0:51:15 okay
0:51:16 so you’re
0:51:16 you’re
0:51:16 you haven’t
0:51:17 like neglected
0:51:17 school
0:51:18 you got a
0:51:18 4.0
0:51:19 and you
0:51:19 did
0:51:20 doing this
0:51:21 with school
0:51:21 I’m working
0:51:22 hard in school
0:51:23 I’m not
0:51:24 by the way
0:51:24 it’s
0:51:25 it’s
0:51:25 it’s
0:51:25 noon
0:51:26 on a Monday
0:51:26 where
0:51:27 where
0:51:28 where are you
0:51:29 right now
0:51:30 I actually
0:51:30 I actually
0:51:30 skipped
0:51:31 class
0:51:31 to do
0:51:31 this
0:51:32 podcast
0:51:32 let’s
0:51:33 go
0:51:35 sorry
0:51:35 miss
0:51:36 bigger
0:51:36 staff
0:51:37 the boys
0:51:38 are calling
0:51:39 are you
0:51:40 at school
0:51:40 right now
0:51:40 are you
0:51:40 home
0:51:41 no I
0:51:41 left
0:51:42 school
0:51:42 I’m home
0:51:43 right now
0:51:44 and you
0:51:45 told your
0:51:45 parents
0:51:45 it’s because
0:51:46 there’s
0:51:46 this podcast
0:51:46 I want
0:51:47 to go on
0:51:47 and it’s
0:51:47 gonna be
0:51:47 good for
0:51:48 business
0:51:48 yeah
0:51:49 how many
0:51:50 other people
0:51:50 do you know
0:51:50 that are
0:51:51 like you
0:51:51 like is
0:51:51 there a
0:51:51 community
0:51:52 of like
0:51:52 a hundred
0:51:52 of you
0:51:53 guys
0:51:53 who are
0:51:53 like
0:51:53 high
0:51:54 schoolers
0:51:54 who
0:51:54 actually
0:51:54 build
0:51:54 shit
0:51:55 and want
0:51:55 to do
0:51:55 cool
0:51:55 things
0:51:57 there’s
0:51:57 not that
0:51:57 many
0:51:57 high
0:51:58 schoolers
0:51:58 but there
0:51:59 are people
0:51:59 who are
0:52:00 slightly
0:52:00 older
0:52:01 19 20
0:52:02 I probably
0:52:03 how he’s
0:52:03 already got
0:52:04 the mastermind
0:52:04 hand pose
0:52:05 he already
0:52:06 has the
0:52:06 visionary
0:52:07 hand
0:52:08 hand position
0:52:08 naturally
0:52:09 dude
0:52:09 straight out
0:52:10 the box
0:52:12 I have a
0:52:13 handful of
0:52:13 people that
0:52:13 I’m friends
0:52:14 with but
0:52:14 not many
0:52:15 definitely
0:52:15 you guys
0:52:15 have a
0:52:16 club
0:52:16 you have
0:52:17 a name
0:52:17 yeah
0:52:17 like the
0:52:18 grubs
0:52:18 yeah
0:52:18 yeah
0:52:19 it’s the
0:52:19 cool kids
0:52:19 club
0:52:22 it’s
0:52:22 you guys
0:52:23 are pretty
0:52:23 cool
0:52:24 so that’s
0:52:24 a good
0:52:24 name
0:52:26 yeah
0:52:27 I’ve always
0:52:27 wanted to be
0:52:29 part of
0:52:29 that
0:52:30 if you
0:52:30 need
0:52:30 another
0:52:31 member
0:52:32 let me
0:52:33 know
0:52:34 have you
0:52:35 considered
0:52:35 just like
0:52:36 moving to
0:52:37 Palo Alto
0:52:37 and like
0:52:38 hanging out
0:52:38 like you
0:52:39 know in
0:52:39 the movie
0:52:40 the social
0:52:40 network
0:52:41 Sean Parker
0:52:42 gets to
0:52:42 act like a
0:52:43 college kid
0:52:43 without going
0:52:44 to college
0:52:45 or are you
0:52:45 dead set
0:52:46 on going
0:52:47 that route
0:52:48 well over
0:52:49 the summer
0:52:50 when things
0:52:50 started taking
0:52:51 off in June
0:52:52 for Cal
0:52:53 LAI
0:52:53 Henry
0:52:53 and I
0:52:54 decided
0:52:55 let’s go
0:52:56 all in
0:52:56 we moved
0:52:57 to San
0:52:57 Francisco
0:52:58 for the
0:52:58 whole month
0:52:59 of July
0:53:00 we lived
0:53:00 in a
0:53:01 hacker house
0:53:02 we worked
0:53:02 out of a
0:53:03 co-working
0:53:03 office
0:53:04 with people
0:53:06 years older
0:53:06 than us
0:53:07 so we
0:53:08 lived the
0:53:08 San Francisco
0:53:09 startup
0:53:10 life
0:53:13 it was
0:53:15 very productive
0:53:16 but at the
0:53:17 same time
0:53:19 pretty lonely
0:53:19 although
0:53:20 we could
0:53:21 talk to
0:53:21 some
0:53:22 people
0:53:22 yeah
0:53:23 we made
0:53:23 friends
0:53:24 we would
0:53:24 get lunch
0:53:25 with people
0:53:26 first of all
0:53:27 San Francisco
0:53:28 is not the
0:53:28 most fun
0:53:29 city
0:53:30 but also
0:53:31 just the fact
0:53:31 that people
0:53:32 were years
0:53:32 older than
0:53:33 us
0:53:34 always made
0:53:34 it difficult
0:53:35 to relate
0:53:35 to them
0:53:36 yeah that
0:53:37 makes sense
0:53:37 we had a
0:53:38 I have a
0:53:38 friend
0:53:40 that like
0:53:40 he got
0:53:41 accepted
0:53:41 into some
0:53:41 program
0:53:43 where he
0:53:43 went to
0:53:43 college
0:53:44 at the
0:53:44 age
0:53:45 of
0:53:46 14
0:53:46 or 15
0:53:47 and he
0:53:48 was telling
0:53:48 me
0:53:48 he was like
0:53:49 man like
0:53:50 I wanted
0:53:50 to like
0:53:51 date girls
0:53:52 and like
0:53:52 you know
0:53:53 do that
0:53:54 normal shit
0:53:55 and it
0:53:56 was weird
0:53:57 I started
0:53:57 fooling around
0:53:57 with one
0:53:58 girl
0:53:58 and I
0:53:58 eventually
0:53:58 had to
0:53:59 break it
0:53:59 with her
0:54:00 that I
0:54:00 was
0:54:00 fill her
0:54:01 in
0:54:01 that I’m
0:54:01 like
0:54:02 I’m 16
0:54:04 and so
0:54:05 like I
0:54:05 imagine
0:54:06 like it’s
0:54:06 weird being
0:54:07 in these
0:54:07 situations
0:54:08 where you’re
0:54:08 like in
0:54:08 these
0:54:09 you’re just
0:54:10 as mature
0:54:11 you’re more
0:54:11 mature than
0:54:12 a lot of
0:54:12 21 year olds
0:54:13 or a lot
0:54:13 of like
0:54:13 grown adults
0:54:14 but you’re
0:54:14 in this
0:54:15 situation
0:54:16 where I
0:54:16 do understand
0:54:17 why you feel
0:54:17 trapped
0:54:18 you’re in
0:54:19 these weird
0:54:19 spots at
0:54:19 such a young
0:54:20 age that
0:54:20 like you
0:54:21 literally
0:54:21 couldn’t go
0:54:21 and do
0:54:22 some of
0:54:22 the stuff
0:54:22 in San
0:54:23 Francisco
0:54:23 that everyone
0:54:24 else is doing
0:54:24 because of
0:54:24 your age
0:54:25 but it’s
0:54:26 pretty amazing
0:54:27 like I hope
0:54:27 you enjoy
0:54:29 like the
0:54:29 time
0:54:30 like I mean
0:54:30 I think
0:54:31 being 18
0:54:32 and experiencing
0:54:32 what you’re
0:54:33 doing
0:54:34 it’s like
0:54:34 this is like
0:54:35 you know
0:54:35 one out of a
0:54:35 billion
0:54:36 this is like
0:54:36 a really
0:54:37 special thing
0:54:37 how much
0:54:37 are you paying
0:54:38 yourself
0:54:39 so we haven’t
0:54:40 paid ourselves
0:54:40 anything
0:54:42 we are reinvesting
0:54:42 it all
0:54:44 it’s not to say
0:54:45 that we
0:54:45 won’t
0:54:46 we are
0:54:47 we do have
0:54:48 profit every
0:54:48 month
0:54:49 it is a
0:54:50 difficult situation
0:54:51 with the
0:54:52 app store
0:54:53 because we
0:54:53 get paid out
0:54:54 two months
0:54:55 after we
0:54:56 earn the
0:54:56 money
0:54:57 so our
0:54:58 growth is so
0:54:58 quick that
0:54:59 the revenue
0:54:59 we generated
0:55:00 two months
0:55:00 ago we have
0:55:01 to put it
0:55:01 all in the
0:55:02 marketing to
0:55:03 keep growing
0:55:04 faster and
0:55:04 faster
0:55:05 I think in
0:55:05 a few months
0:55:06 we may start
0:55:07 having a
0:55:08 surplus where
0:55:09 we can’t
0:55:10 spend it on
0:55:10 growth even
0:55:11 if we wanted
0:55:11 to
0:55:13 yeah that’s
0:55:13 great
0:55:17 New York
0:55:17 City founders
0:55:18 if you’ve
0:55:18 listened to
0:55:19 my first
0:55:19 million before
0:55:19 you know I’ve
0:55:20 got this
0:55:20 company called
0:55:21 Hampton and
0:55:21 Hampton is a
0:55:22 community for
0:55:23 founders and
0:55:24 CEOs a lot of
0:55:25 the stories and
0:55:26 ideas that I get
0:55:26 for this podcast
0:55:28 I actually got it
0:55:28 from people who I
0:55:29 met in Hampton
0:55:30 we have this big
0:55:30 community of a
0:55:31 thousand plus
0:55:31 people and it’s
0:55:32 amazing but the
0:55:34 main part is this
0:55:35 eight person core
0:55:35 group that becomes
0:55:36 your board of
0:55:36 advisors for your
0:55:37 life and for your
0:55:38 business and it’s
0:55:39 life-changing
0:55:40 now to the
0:55:41 folks in New
0:55:42 York City I’m
0:55:43 building a in
0:55:44 real life core
0:55:45 group in New
0:55:46 York City and so
0:55:47 if you meet one
0:55:47 of the following
0:55:48 criteria your
0:55:49 business either
0:55:49 does three million
0:55:50 in revenue or
0:55:51 you’ve raised
0:55:52 three million in
0:55:53 funding or you’ve
0:55:53 started and sold
0:55:54 a company for at
0:55:55 least ten million
0:55:56 dollars then you
0:55:56 are eligible to
0:55:58 apply so go to
0:55:59 joinhampton.com and
0:56:00 apply I’m going to
0:56:01 be reviewing all of
0:56:02 the applications
0:56:03 myself so put that
0:56:04 you heard about this
0:56:05 on MFM so I know
0:56:06 to give you a little
0:56:07 extra love now back
0:56:08 to the show
0:56:11 dude this is
0:56:12 awesome man
0:56:13 congratulations and
0:56:15 I’m excited to see
0:56:16 what happens who
0:56:17 are like who do you
0:56:18 admire who are you
0:56:19 who are you learning
0:56:20 from and looking up
0:56:22 to like who’s who’s
0:56:22 inspiring you are you
0:56:24 just like oh Elon and
0:56:25 Jeff Bezos that’s what
0:56:26 I that’s what I care
0:56:27 about or are there
0:56:28 other people that
0:56:28 you’re more interested
0:56:30 in personally like you
0:56:31 said you listen to
0:56:32 podcasts as inspiration
0:56:33 who are some of those
0:56:34 people that you like to
0:56:36 listen to totally so I
0:56:37 love your guys’s
0:56:39 podcast it’s I’m more
0:56:40 inspired by people who
0:56:42 are dead than people
0:56:43 who are alive and
0:56:44 maybe that’s because I
0:56:46 feel like there’s they’re
0:56:47 not my competition
0:56:48 anymore or they are but
0:56:50 they’re not progressing
0:56:51 anymore so I see
0:56:52 exactly where they ended
0:56:55 up but I go love it
0:56:57 yeah I get it you sick
0:56:59 fuck yeah makes sense
0:57:01 they’re not my competition
0:57:02 anymore I’ve already
0:57:03 finished them yeah
0:57:08 people like I think he’s
0:57:09 gonna kill us Sam
0:57:11 yeah I think he just
0:57:12 threatened us Luke
0:57:15 yeah okay so you like
0:57:16 learning from dead people
0:57:16 what does that mean
0:57:17 books what do how you
0:57:18 learn from dead people
0:57:20 I like audio books but I
0:57:21 don’t actually like reading
0:57:22 physical books I also like
0:57:23 learning about them from
0:57:25 podcasts which dead people
0:57:26 also like founders you
0:57:28 like the David Senrose
0:57:28 podcast founders it’s one of
0:57:30 my favorites I do listen to
0:57:31 that there’s one I’ve
0:57:32 listened to recently how to
0:57:34 take over the world which
0:57:35 oh yeah my boy Ben let’s
0:57:37 go so let me ask you a
0:57:38 question what what’s a
0:57:40 thing that people your
0:57:41 age are doing that seems
0:57:43 weird to us but it’s
0:57:44 totally normal so like
0:57:45 what’s a phenomenon that
0:57:47 you’re like yeah kids love
0:57:48 doing this they spend all
0:57:49 this time doing this or
0:57:50 they spend their money on
0:57:51 this or this is a new
0:57:52 trend that seems to be
0:57:53 weird to others but we
0:57:54 get it it’s it’s normal
0:57:56 for us yeah it’s by the
0:57:58 way is wearing Ralph
0:57:59 Lauren Ralph Lauren
0:58:00 polo sweaters is that a
0:58:01 new trend that young
0:58:02 people are doing I
0:58:02 think you’ve influenced
0:58:05 Sam yeah great sweater
0:58:07 yeah sorry go ahead with
0:58:08 what cool young people are
0:58:10 doing so there’s something
0:58:12 really interesting a really
0:58:14 interesting phenomenon I’ve
0:58:18 seen recently and it’s not a
0:58:20 new software it’s not a new
0:58:22 social media platform what it
0:58:25 is is these little things you
0:58:27 put on the back of your phone
0:58:28 it’s called an octobuddy
0:58:31 it’s octobuddy and it has
0:58:33 suction cups on it so you
0:58:34 could stick your phone to a
0:58:37 wall you could prop it up on
0:58:40 your table and watch videos is
0:58:42 the purpose I don’t think
0:58:43 people actually I’ve never
0:58:44 seen someone actually use the
0:58:45 suction cups how they’re
0:58:47 designed to but it’s a trend
0:58:49 among all girls in my high
0:58:50 school I’ve over the last few
0:58:52 months I’ve just seen more and
0:58:53 more people have it now
0:58:56 everyone does and it’s it’s
0:58:57 fascinating something that’s
0:58:58 like a TV mount you mount your
0:58:59 you can mount your phone to
0:59:01 any any surface basically and
0:59:02 what do you mean it’s not used
0:59:03 how it’s supposed to be isn’t
0:59:04 that what it’s supposed to be
0:59:05 well I think it’s more of
0:59:08 something where now girls look
0:59:09 at it like the color of their
0:59:11 nails are having long nails on
0:59:12 where girls get different
0:59:14 colors and oh it became an
0:59:16 accessory realistic accessory
0:59:17 status thing that actually
0:59:20 function keep going tell me what
0:59:21 young people like like whenever
0:59:22 I meet a young guy I’m like
0:59:24 tell me everything well that’s
0:59:26 the main thing that you
0:59:28 wouldn’t typically notice are
0:59:31 your friends drinking yes
0:59:32 definitely it’s big like to
0:59:34 party do you guys like to
0:59:36 smoke weed I’m someone who
0:59:37 doesn’t do any drugs I’m pretty
0:59:39 against them and I don’t drink
0:59:41 either but it’s I mean everyone
0:59:43 around me is so drinking is
0:59:45 common very common very very
0:59:48 you also mentioned this this like
0:59:49 turbo learn thing that sounds
0:59:51 pretty awesome what else is like
0:59:54 what other who else is like you
0:59:55 out there who’s basically
0:59:56 scaling up to millions in
0:59:59 revenue just off of this kind of
1:00:00 like AI tick-tock type of model
1:00:04 so there are a bunch of consumer
1:00:06 apps that are coming out or have
1:00:09 come out and honestly I think a
1:00:12 lot of it is attributed to Blake
1:00:14 and I speaking publicly about this
1:00:16 showing that it’s really possible in
1:00:17 the app space so new apps like
1:00:20 quitter which is an app designed to
1:00:24 help men quit porn with all of
1:00:28 these little social or like by
1:00:29 having streaks essentially to
1:00:31 gamify the whole experience so
1:00:33 that’s a new one that just came
1:00:36 out you inspired these guys I’m
1:00:38 friends with the founder and he was
1:00:40 inspired to get into the app space
1:00:41 by seeing Cal AI really take off he
1:00:43 was with me in the early days that’s
1:00:45 cool it’s got five thousand five
1:00:47 thousand reviews on on iPhone it’s
1:00:50 pretty good yeah so they’re on track
1:00:51 to make over a million dollars this
1:00:54 year I think consumer apps right now
1:00:56 are like the new drop shipping you
1:00:59 know Sean has said this once where he
1:01:01 was like you know Sean was like I’m a
1:01:02 content creator you know he’s got
1:01:03 newsletters and Twitter and podcasts
1:01:07 but these tick-tock guys it’s as if you
1:01:09 know I am really good at riding horses
1:01:11 but along comes Henry Ford and it’s
1:01:13 just it’s just the cars are no
1:01:15 comparison you know I can’t there’s
1:01:16 no way my horse and I are going to
1:01:18 outrun even the the crappiest car
1:01:21 this is one of those moments that I’m
1:01:24 having right now talking to you so like
1:01:26 for a long time Sean and I our
1:01:28 friends will do drop shipping you know
1:01:30 when we were 25 that was the thing is
1:01:32 like create like a drop shipping site
1:01:34 and people still do things like that
1:01:38 seeing what you’re doing with tech and
1:01:41 influencers is so much better than like
1:01:44 you even look mr you even make mr
1:01:46 beast look old you know what I mean
1:01:48 like chocolate like what that’s crazy
1:01:50 makeup you know what I mean but dude
1:01:52 people used to look at me and Sam when
1:01:54 we were like so we met when we were I
1:01:55 was probably 24 25 we were the
1:01:58 prodigies and it was like probably
1:02:00 that’s very generous but what I mean is
1:02:01 like it’d be like if there was
1:02:03 something on the on the fringe or the
1:02:05 edge about either growth hacking or
1:02:07 a clever way to make money usually it
1:02:08 was us who knew it and people would
1:02:10 ask us about it like I remember having
1:02:12 like about it the Atlantic the
1:02:13 publisher come to my office and they’re
1:02:14 like newsletters and I’m like yeah
1:02:17 like it’s a thing that’s old news now
1:02:18 these guys are so much better and we
1:02:20 are that person now I’m going to go to
1:02:21 his office and be like just tell me
1:02:24 everything it’s something that always
1:02:26 happens it’s going to happen to me too
1:02:28 I know that every year I age I am
1:02:30 becoming exponentially less
1:02:32 impressive and there’s someone that’s
1:02:35 going to come and be the next big thing
1:02:39 the growth hacker that is in the front
1:02:42 of everything I think it’s just about
1:02:45 building momentum and I’m pretty
1:02:48 obsessed with this idea of making sure
1:02:51 that everything I work on will 10x the
1:02:53 previous thing so that I’m always
1:02:55 moving forward towards a bigger goal
1:02:57 you actually mentioned Mr. Beast he’s
1:02:59 actually someone who greatly inspires me
1:03:01 I love the podcast that you guys had with
1:03:03 by the way I’ve heard this now a couple
1:03:05 times from people who are like 18 and
1:03:06 they’re like fearful that when they’re
1:03:09 22 suddenly their accomplishments are no
1:03:12 longer cool and I just want to say I get
1:03:16 it makes total sense it’s also total
1:03:19 nonsense and what I mean by that is not
1:03:22 only is it still super impressive but the
1:03:23 real game is when you stop trying to
1:03:25 impress people and so what actually
1:03:28 happens is you graduate out of the I need
1:03:30 to impress people phase and the person
1:03:33 who’s 17 18 they’re still getting that
1:03:35 high of of being the impressive
1:03:37 person oh everybody’s kind of patting on
1:03:40 the back and actually the only way to win
1:03:42 the game is not to continuously be the
1:03:44 youngest best-looking richest person
1:03:45 because you’ll never win that game of
1:03:47 comparison the only real way to win the
1:03:50 game is to realize like oh I just need to
1:03:51 be doing the things that are fun for me and
1:03:54 like the act of doing them is rewarding
1:03:56 and not look for the rewards of
1:03:57 impressing people which is obviously
1:03:59 easier said than done but that’s the real
1:04:02 thing to focus on and not like this
1:04:04 feeling of I’m running on quicksand you
1:04:07 know because it’s I’m getting older oh
1:04:10 no or like I have to 10x my growth even
1:04:12 though I’m already at you know 24 million
1:04:15 ARR it’s like sure that’s all fine I’m
1:04:19 not against growth but somebody said this
1:04:20 to us actually they said this while we
1:04:22 were hanging out with mr beast they go be
1:04:25 very careful because growth for growth
1:04:28 sake is the ideology of a cancer cell and
1:04:30 so you know growth for growth sake is
1:04:32 not not not where it’s at and there’s
1:04:34 there’s more to the game than that and
1:04:35 he’s like I’ll leave you with that to
1:04:37 kind of figure out what what what is the
1:04:38 answer I’m not going to sort of try to
1:04:40 tell you what I think is right but I’ll
1:04:42 point that out because I think for me
1:04:43 when I was young and I know for a lot of
1:04:45 ambitious people it just seems like grow
1:04:47 grow grow grow grow it’s the only thing
1:04:51 and it comes from a little bit of a I
1:04:52 don’t know like a little bit of a place
1:04:57 of anxiety I think right yes and I’ve had
1:05:00 this a similar thought to this where I’m
1:05:01 not sure if it’s a good thing or a bad
1:05:04 thing but I thought okay once I find my
1:05:06 success and let’s say I’m quote-unquote
1:05:09 financially free will I even want to start
1:05:13 something new or will I not care anymore
1:05:16 just want to find happiness elsewhere maybe
1:05:17 I have one of the tenets of happiness
1:05:20 which is I’m financially taken care of but
1:05:23 then I want to prioritize relationships and
1:05:27 happiness in other aspects so you’re always
1:05:30 going to be making stuff I’ll predict the
1:05:31 future maybe maybe you’ll take the foot
1:05:34 off the gas and one of relationships and
1:05:36 a family and all that stuff you are going
1:05:38 to be creating stuff for a very very long
1:05:40 time well that is why I’m going to
1:05:42 college it’s almost to take my foot off
1:05:44 the gas a little bit build relationships
1:05:46 and then I want to drop out after a
1:05:48 semester or two I mean I think that’s
1:05:49 really smart because you have your whole
1:05:51 life to make money but you really only
1:05:53 have this four years to make lifelong
1:05:56 friends from college so actually the
1:05:58 scarce thing is the is the friendships
1:06:00 in that college experience because there’s
1:06:03 a window of time that expires and so do
1:06:05 that because you still have 50 years to make
1:06:08 money after that what school do you want
1:06:13 to go to if I got in then Stanford is
1:06:16 likely the top surely we have listeners
1:06:17 this is going to reach a lot of people
1:06:19 surely there are some some people
1:06:22 Dean I know you’re listening Yadigari
1:06:27 Y-A-D-H yeah you can find him on Twitter
1:06:30 DM him actually that’s that’s what they
1:06:32 should do a real if I’m if I’m out of
1:06:34 college right now I’m DMing this kid an
1:06:36 acceptance letter that’s how a college
1:06:37 just needs to hustle I’m tired of these
1:06:39 colors you’re gonna get someone’s gonna be
1:06:41 like sup you’re just gonna get a DM from
1:06:45 who’s your favorite who are your most
1:06:48 inspirational follows on Twitter I want to
1:06:51 I want to basically I find you so
1:06:52 fascinated I want to be inspired by the
1:06:54 people you want your info diet yeah yeah
1:06:57 yeah I want your info diet who who do you
1:06:59 inspired by and try to make it people who
1:07:05 think I won’t know okay who do I follow I
1:07:07 actually don’t usually use Twitter for
1:07:10 people I’m inspired by that’s interesting
1:07:12 what’s your like main social network what
1:07:14 do you use when you’re bored what do you
1:07:17 open up it is Twitter it is Twitter that is
1:07:20 my main social network when I’m looking to
1:07:22 be inspired there are definitely a few
1:07:24 people David Goggins for example he just
1:07:27 pumps me up so I have people like him
1:07:30 that you know inspired by his mindset
1:07:34 completely I used to actually be in this
1:07:36 phase where I was addicted to motivational
1:07:39 content I curated my tiktok for you page I
1:07:42 only liked motivational videos and anytime I
1:07:44 lost motivation I would just scroll for five
1:07:46 minutes then get back into it so
1:07:49 definitely those kinds of people but it’s
1:07:53 mainly those like mr beast Elon Musk I
1:07:55 follow both of those on Twitter my own
1:07:58 co-founder Blake Anderson who’s a few
1:08:01 years ahead of me in life and knowledge
1:08:04 too so definitely learn a lot from him
1:08:08 Cliff Weitzman he’s a recent friend of
1:08:11 mine I think one of you know him yeah
1:08:13 yeah we know Cliff yeah so he’s super
1:08:17 inspiring to myself as well that’s dope
1:08:20 okay amazing Sam anything else
1:08:24 is there that’s don’t ask me Zach is
1:08:26 there anything else that you want to
1:08:28 inspire me by like you’re you’re you’re
1:08:31 amazing like anything else that you want
1:08:33 to tell us yeah did we miss anything I
1:08:37 appreciate that I mean it’s always hard
1:08:41 going on these podcasts like it’s it’s a
1:08:44 whole full circle moment and also it feels
1:08:47 almost bad speaking about all this I try
1:08:49 to stay humble but then at the same time
1:08:53 I know you have to speak your way into
1:08:54 the world if I wasn’t posting anything
1:08:56 publicly I’ve had a lot of debate over
1:08:59 the personal brand then I wouldn’t have
1:09:01 so many opportunities that I have had
1:09:05 I Sean my one of my best buddies Val I
1:09:07 think Zach asked him out to lunch or
1:09:10 something the other day like the other
1:09:11 day and like was just asking him for
1:09:13 advice on maybe coming on this podcast
1:09:15 but also business advice because Val’s a
1:09:18 great guy and really successful and yeah I
1:09:20 thought it was funny because actually you
1:09:22 remind me of Val a lot Zach but it was
1:09:24 funny apparently Val’s kids were like
1:09:27 were you hanging out with our friend Zach
1:09:29 like at lunch the other day and he was
1:09:33 like yeah but it was like a very you know
1:09:36 oddly a business context but anyway Val
1:09:38 called me and was like this guy Zach is
1:09:39 one of the most impressive people I’ve
1:09:42 ever met and Val is a very hard person to
1:09:45 impress he’s pretty low-key and so well
1:09:47 one of the funny things is like you have
1:09:50 this paradox because you you want to keep
1:09:53 your asset your asset is you’re young and
1:09:55 ignorance is bliss you don’t know how hard
1:09:57 some things are you don’t know what’s
1:09:58 possible you don’t have a ceiling on
1:09:59 anything because you don’t know any
1:10:02 better right and that ignorance is a is a
1:10:04 real tool the naivete the beginner’s mind
1:10:06 and so you want to keep that and the
1:10:09 other side you have this giant problem
1:10:10 which is that there’s always kind of like
1:10:12 this I forgot what they call it but
1:10:13 there’s this three three known thing
1:10:15 right it’s like there’s the things you
1:10:17 know you know there’s the things you
1:10:19 know you don’t know but then the the real
1:10:21 one that matters is the things you don’t
1:10:24 know that you don’t know and and so
1:10:26 talking to whatever smarter people people
1:10:28 who have played the game for 15 20 years
1:10:30 they will help you surface that last one
1:10:32 and that that last area of things you
1:10:33 don’t you don’t currently even know that
1:10:35 you don’t know that’s the thing you
1:10:36 should be worried about but how do you
1:10:37 worry about it you don’t even know you
1:10:39 don’t know where to look but it’s by
1:10:41 talking to other smart people that that
1:10:42 gets revealed to you and so you have this
1:10:44 paradox where you want to keep what you
1:10:47 got as your big asset your naivete your
1:10:49 beginner’s mind your your your your useful
1:10:53 ignorance but at the same time talk to
1:10:54 some well-meaning people who are a little
1:10:57 bit wiser to try to get figure out like
1:11:01 you know little little a little bit of a
1:11:03 push in one direction or the other they’ll
1:11:05 kind of nudge you and that little nudge
1:11:07 can totally change your trajectory right
1:11:09 because like I mean just imagine hitting a
1:11:12 golf ball and even just changing by two
1:11:13 millimeters the angle that you hit that
1:11:15 ball it ends up in a totally different
1:11:17 spot so you want to find those people who
1:11:18 are your your two millimeter people the
1:11:19 people that would just give you that
1:11:22 slight angle adjustment in order to make it
1:11:23 happen I don’t know how you do that
1:11:26 exactly the keep both of those but that’s
1:11:27 what I would do if I was you I try to find
1:11:30 a way to keep both I totally agree I have
1:11:33 heard that that it’s much easier to learn
1:11:35 from someone 10 steps ahead of you than 100
1:11:38 steps ahead of you 100 steps so much is
1:11:40 missing but 10 you can piece together they
1:11:43 can lift you up this the extra steps and
1:11:47 help you get from 0 to 10 yeah and one
1:11:48 other thing you’re gonna figure out is
1:11:51 that all successful people do not have
1:11:53 equally valuable advice so you will meet
1:11:55 a lot of people who are successful or
1:11:58 sound interesting but their advice is not
1:12:01 great and the hard part is figuring out how
1:12:05 to parse it and just like dissociate it
1:12:06 slightly from the result because their
1:12:08 result might be totally dependent on the
1:12:09 context look there’s a whole bunch of
1:12:12 different variables that will lead to that
1:12:13 or maybe just their understanding of your
1:12:15 situation and so trying to figure out how
1:12:17 to parse advice is like an underrated
1:12:19 skill and and make sure that the people
1:12:20 you take advice from that they’re actually
1:12:22 happy and they’re people and they’re
1:12:24 they’re people you admire or who’s like
1:12:26 themselves and they’re happy for you you
1:12:28 know yeah like you’d want their life it’s a
1:12:31 very good point all right well on that
1:12:33 point let’s call it a let’s call it a day I
1:12:34 think you got to go back to school now
1:12:39 yeah lunch is over hey thank you Zach you’re
1:12:41 the man anytime you want to come on please
1:12:44 let us know congrats dude thank you for
1:12:46 having me and I’m gonna I’m gonna use the
1:12:47 app so I mean I’m gonna download your
1:12:49 app right now start tracking thank you and
1:12:52 that’s it that’s the pod I feel like I can
1:12:55 rule the world I know I could be what I
1:12:58 want to I put my all in it like my days
1:13:00 off on the road let’s travel never looking
1:13:01 back
1:13:07 hey Sean here a quick break to tell you an
1:13:09 Ev Williams story he started Twitter and
1:13:11 before that he sold a company to Google
1:13:12 for a hundred million dollars and somebody
1:13:14 asked him they said Ev what’s the secret
1:13:16 man how do you create these huge
1:13:18 businesses billion-dollar businesses and he
1:13:19 says well I think the answer is that you
1:13:21 take a human desire preferably one that’s
1:13:24 been around for thousands of years and then
1:13:26 you just use modern technology to take out
1:13:29 steps just remove the friction that exists
1:13:31 between people getting what they want and
1:13:32 that is what my partner Mercury does they
1:13:34 took one of the most basic needs any
1:13:36 entrepreneur has managing your money and
1:13:37 being able to do your finance or
1:13:38 operations and they’ve removed all the
1:13:40 friction that has existed for decades no
1:13:43 more clunky interfaces no more 10 tabs to
1:13:45 get something done no more having to drive
1:13:47 to a bank get out of your car just to send a
1:13:49 wire transfer they made it fast they made
1:13:51 it easy you can actually just get back to
1:13:52 running your business you don’t have to
1:13:53 worry about the rest of it I use it for
1:13:55 not one not two but six of my companies
1:13:58 right now and it’s used by also 200,000
1:14:00 other ambitious founders so if you want to
1:14:02 be like me head to mercury.com open up an
1:14:05 account in minutes and remember Mercury is a
1:14:06 financial technology company not a bank
1:14:08 banking services provided by choice
1:14:10 financial group and evolve bank and trust
1:14:12 members FDIC all right back to the episode