Kipp Bodnar: Inbound Marketing Strategies for Explosive Business Growth in 2025 | Marketing | E348

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0:01:50 I didn’t work at McKinsey.
0:01:51 I don’t have an MBA.
0:01:54 I’m an untraditional marketing leader.
0:01:56 Marketing is a game of arbitrage.
0:02:00 The best marketers in the world just figure out where their inefficiencies,
0:02:01 where things are underpriced.
0:02:06 They lean very aggressively into those things to get a really high return.
0:02:11 The best entrepreneurs in the world are people who just get really irritated that a problem exists
0:02:15 and just become maniacally focused and obsessed with solving it.
0:02:18 You could do that whether you’re a solopreneur, whether you’re an executive at a company.
0:02:19 It doesn’t matter.
0:02:22 It’s your job to understand what that unfair advantage is.
0:02:27 So I know that HubSpot actually coined the word inbound marketing.
0:02:31 So in 2025, what inbound strategies are working?
0:02:32 A few things.
0:02:34 The number one thing is.
0:02:50 Yeah, bam.
0:02:55 What if I told you that you don’t need a massive marketing budget to build a powerful brand?
0:02:59 Today, we’re sitting down with Kip Bodnar, Chief Marketing Officer of HubSpot,
0:03:03 to crack the code on digital marketing for entrepreneurs and small businesses.
0:03:07 Whether you’re just starting out or looking to level up your marketing game,
0:03:10 this episode is packed with practical tips, smart strategies,
0:03:14 and real-world advice straight from one of the biggest names in digital marketing.
0:03:17 Kip, welcome to Young and Profiting Podcast.
0:03:18 Hey, Hala.
0:03:19 Thanks so much for having me.
0:03:20 Excited to be here.
0:03:22 I am excited for this conversation.
0:03:24 I love to talk about marketing.
0:03:29 And I was so impressed with your journey when I was researching your story.
0:03:35 I found out that you rose to CMO at HubSpot in just five years,
0:03:37 which is absolutely incredible.
0:03:39 So my first question to you is,
0:03:43 what do you think set you apart from other employees at HubSpot
0:03:45 and accelerated your career growth at the company?
0:03:49 I think accelerating a business career growth, it’s all very similar.
0:03:54 I think it’s about how do you really focus on the small set of things
0:03:56 that are going to give you the high magnitude of return?
0:04:01 I think so often people get caught up in operational details
0:04:04 or let everybody else push their priorities on them,
0:04:07 where you have to be like, you have to look at the situation and say,
0:04:10 what are the three to five things that if I do,
0:04:13 I will be 10 times more successful than anybody else in the situation?
0:04:17 And that sounds simple, but it is the thing that I think matters the most.
0:04:21 Before you were joining HubSpot and you started there,
0:04:22 you were actually an entrepreneur.
0:04:27 So what were the advantages or disadvantages that you faced
0:04:31 joining corporate already having entrepreneurship experience?
0:04:35 I think the first entrepreneurship thing I had,
0:04:39 I would go to like Sam’s Club and Walmart and find like clearance items
0:04:41 and flip them on eBay when I was in high school.
0:04:45 And so I was always somebody who was obsessed with arbitrage.
0:04:47 How do you buy low and sell high?
0:04:49 And where are the inefficiencies of a market?
0:04:55 And one of the great things about marketing is that marketing is a game of arbitrage.
0:04:58 The best marketers in the world just figure out where their inefficiencies,
0:04:59 where things are underpriced.
0:05:04 They lean very aggressively into those things to get a really high return.
0:05:09 And so what happens when you go and then work at a startup at the time,
0:05:11 I think HubSpot was about 100 people when I joined,
0:05:16 you go from just running really fast by yourself to needing to run really fast with a bunch of other people.
0:05:18 And that’s the biggest change.
0:05:21 And you have to adopt a different mindset.
0:05:25 And I think the mindset there is I have limited scale just me.
0:05:28 I could accomplish much bigger things if I do it with other people,
0:05:31 but I got to bring them along for that journey.
0:05:36 If I just try to push my agenda on everybody else, nobody’s going to understand.
0:05:38 They’re not going to have the context and we’re not going to go anywhere.
0:05:47 And so I think the biggest shift from being somebody who is working solo or on a small team to being on a bigger team
0:05:52 is how do you actually clearly articulate the problem you’re going to solve
0:05:55 in a way that people are really excited to solve it with you?
0:05:57 Because when you’re a solopreneur, you don’t have to do that.
0:05:59 You can just do what’s in your head and go.
0:06:03 And I love what you said about marketing being arbitrage.
0:06:04 I think that’s so smart and it’s so true.
0:06:08 It’s like almost every marketing activity is some sort of arbitrage.
0:06:09 100%.
0:06:10 It’s exactly what it is.
0:06:13 Whether you’re trying to game an algorithm, whether you’re trying to make a great YouTube thumbnail,
0:06:19 whether you’re trying to buy ads on an obscure platform that maybe your industry doesn’t use,
0:06:20 but they’re way cheaper.
0:06:24 Those are all just different ways to find arbitrage and take advantage of it.
0:06:28 So in your career, like I said, you rose up the ranks very quickly.
0:06:33 Were there any pivotal moments that really shaped your trajectory or relationships?
0:06:39 What do you think it was that you were able to go from employee to CMO and in the C-suite?
0:06:43 I think there’s lots of moments that make that happen.
0:06:46 My very first job was I ran the HubSpot blog.
0:06:53 So basically the equivalent of what you do now and what a lot of creators and amazing media companies do now,
0:06:56 I did a long time ago because I’m old.
0:07:05 And I think the most pivotal moment was that first year when we had a blog that had about 200,000 readers a month.
0:07:09 And by the end of the year, we were at about 1.5 million monthlies.
0:07:12 And so we were able to really grow and scale that work.
0:07:16 And I was maniacally focused on that.
0:07:20 For better and for worse, there are challenges of being too overtly focused.
0:07:22 And you probably don’t collaborate as well with others and everything.
0:07:27 But I knew I needed to dramatically change the trajectory of the work we were doing.
0:07:34 And so I look at everything as like a sprint, whether it be a week, a year, two years.
0:07:38 It’s like, what do I need to really change and transform in that time?
0:07:42 And I knew that I needed to change the type of content we’re creating, the frequency, the process,
0:07:45 all of those things that creators now do on a daily basis.
0:07:50 But in 2010 was kind of new and people were trying to figure it out at the time.
0:07:53 And so I think that was one.
0:07:57 And then the other is when you go from being somebody who is contributing as an individual
0:07:59 to like leading a team.
0:08:04 So I went from running that blog to running all of our content and how we were, our blog,
0:08:07 our social, our SEO, how we were scaling up.
0:08:12 And that was a pretty pivotal transition because it’s like, can I get people to follow me?
0:08:14 Do I have a clear story?
0:08:15 Do I have a clear strategy?
0:08:22 And the simple thing I would tell everybody out there is the key step in that is people need
0:08:25 to feel like they’re going to learn something from you.
0:08:31 And so even though they may be specialists, like I would go and I would find the latest
0:08:36 article, the latest hack that somebody had done, even if it was for somebody else on my
0:08:36 team.
0:08:40 And I would send it to them and talk to them about it and talk about how we could use it.
0:08:42 And they were instantly like, oh, you understand my work.
0:08:45 You understand the craft that we’re working on together here.
0:08:50 And I trust you to help me make my craft much better than it is today.
0:08:53 Not that it’s bad today, but that I think I can get much better with your help.
0:08:57 So basically, you were a good colleague, right?
0:08:58 And you helped other people.
0:09:04 And that’s really important with politics in corporate and especially getting into the C-suite.
0:09:07 So what advice do you have for good relationships in corporate?
0:09:12 And being somebody who higher ups think about when promotions are coming up?
0:09:15 I think the best relationships are results.
0:09:19 I think results speak for themselves and results are the ultimate meritocracy.
0:09:26 I think the biggest thing that people get wrong is they look at what other people ask of them and
0:09:28 say, hey, here are the goals that I think you can achieve.
0:09:31 And they look at that as the ceiling of what they’re supposed to do.
0:09:36 So if you’re running a LinkedIn program, for example, it’s like, oh, I think you can get
0:09:40 a million views a month this year for our company content.
0:09:41 Great.
0:09:45 Well, you or I, if we were in that situation, we would say, cool, you think a million is good.
0:09:46 I think 10 million is good.
0:09:51 How would I go and use the same constraints, everything I have access to, to do way better
0:09:52 than you think?
0:09:56 Because that change in magnitude is impossible to ignore.
0:10:03 Because then you’re like, oh, wow, we have somebody who’s able to over exceed what we
0:10:06 think are fairly aggressive expectations that we would have of them.
0:10:10 Clearly, they are able to do more and we should put them in a situation to do more.
0:10:15 I teach a LinkedIn masterclass and it’s people that want to grow their personal brands.
0:10:21 And one of the most common objections I get from these folks is that I’m really scared to
0:10:24 start growing my personal brand while I’m working corporate.
0:10:25 I’m scared to do my own thing.
0:10:30 And I noticed that you launched a book while you were working at HubSpot, right?
0:10:31 Yeah, yeah.
0:10:32 So talk to us about that experience.
0:10:36 What’s your advice to people who want to become a thought leader in their space, but they do
0:10:37 work in corporate?
0:10:42 How should they approach it without stepping on toes or making sure that their company is
0:10:43 aligned with what they’re doing?
0:10:49 Yeah, I find that people’s own ambition or lack thereof is their biggest limiter to growth,
0:10:52 not their capability, not their aptitude, not anything else.
0:10:55 And I find those things to largely be an excuse.
0:11:01 You know, you’re scared largely of what other people think versus what’s actually true.
0:11:06 And what’s actually true, if you look at the market, what happens is that a company, no matter
0:11:10 whether you’re starting it or you’re working for it, they need experts and they need people
0:11:17 who their customers look to as trusted experts and advisors who have deep knowledge and deep
0:11:19 perspective and point of view on their market.
0:11:22 And you know how you get there?
0:11:23 You have a great presence on LinkedIn.
0:11:24 You start a podcast.
0:11:25 You write a book.
0:11:26 You have an email newsletter.
0:11:31 There’s tons of different ways, depending on your skills, your interests, to get there.
0:11:33 But you have to get there.
0:11:38 And the thing that nobody tells you, because I got a job at HubSpot because I had run a blog
0:11:40 and they liked my blog.
0:11:43 And then I ran the blog and I host the Marketing Against the Grain podcast.
0:11:48 Now, the thing that you know and a lot of people don’t know is that when you create, when you
0:11:53 make something every day and every week, you learn so much faster and you get so much better
0:11:55 at your craft.
0:12:00 If you have to teach a lot of other people the thing that you want them to know and the thing
0:12:02 you’re trying to be good at in your job.
0:12:06 And I have always found on my team that the people who are out there actively creating
0:12:12 are some of the best people in their current roles, in addition to what they may be doing
0:12:13 on LinkedIn or YouTube or wherever.
0:12:15 I totally agree with you.
0:12:17 A lot of the times it is an excuse.
0:12:20 People are saying, oh, I think my company is going to get mad.
0:12:21 My boss is going to get mad.
0:12:25 But in reality, what may happen, especially if you let them know you’re going to do this
0:12:30 and it’s not competitive to what you’re doing at work, you’ll get more respected at work.
0:12:34 I remember when I started growing my brand and podcast, I started getting promoted more
0:12:34 often at work.
0:12:40 I was being asked to teach the C-suite how to use LinkedIn and getting flown to conferences
0:12:42 and whatever it was when I was working at Hewlett Packard.
0:12:50 Right now, do you feel like you have an entrepreneurial itch or is being in C-suite enough for you to feel
0:12:51 like you’re building something?
0:12:55 Just because a lot of people think in order to be an entrepreneur, you have to start your own
0:12:56 company.
0:12:58 But I don’t think that’s necessarily true.
0:13:01 I think entrepreneurship is about solving problems.
0:13:06 Inherently, the best entrepreneurs in the world are people who just get really irritated that a
0:13:12 problem exists and just become maniacally focused and obsessed with solving it and normally do so in
0:13:15 a way that generates a lot of wealth for them and other people.
0:13:15 Right.
0:13:16 And that’s awesome.
0:13:21 You could do that whether you’re a solopreneur, whether you’re a startup founder, whether you
0:13:24 are a leader in a company, whether you’re an executive at a company.
0:13:24 It doesn’t matter.
0:13:29 I look at it as, am I in a situation to solve interesting problems?
0:13:32 And the reason I don’t go start a company right now is because I’m in a great position
0:13:35 to go start and solve really interesting problems.
0:13:41 And I have a lot of access to capital and smart people to go and do that and make much
0:13:45 faster progress than if I was just me trying to do something.
0:13:50 And I look at it as every situation, you have an unfair advantage.
0:13:53 It’s your job to understand what that unfair advantage is.
0:14:00 And I always tell people that when you work at a great company, you have the two things
0:14:01 that matter most.
0:14:05 You have agency and control, which is what most entrepreneurs have and they want.
0:14:10 But you also have resources to go and do what you want with that agency and control, which
0:14:11 a lot of entrepreneurs do not have.
0:14:15 And so when you have both of those at the same time, regardless of the situation you’re in,
0:14:17 you should take advantage of it.
0:14:18 Okay.
0:14:21 So let’s move on to some marketing best practices.
0:14:25 HubSpot has become a household name.
0:14:29 So what do you think has been some of the major factors in becoming a global brand?
0:14:33 I think it’s a little bit what we talked about earlier.
0:14:36 I’m an untraditional marketing leader, right?
0:14:38 I didn’t work at McKinsey.
0:14:39 I don’t have an MBA.
0:14:41 I’m not out of central casting.
0:14:48 I am from a small town in West Virginia where my goal was to do interesting stuff and see the
0:14:48 world.
0:14:52 And when you’re in that kind of situation,
0:14:54 you just think about solving problems differently.
0:14:56 And that comes back to the idea of arbitrage.
0:15:04 You have to understand if you’re a marketer, what are the unique ways to reach my audience?
0:15:07 And what are some of the ways that we have done that at HubSpot over the years?
0:15:09 I think would help maybe bring examples of that.
0:15:14 First, in the very early days, we created a free tool called Website Grader, where you
0:15:17 could just put your website in and it would give a full diagnostic.
0:15:23 So normally what you would hire a consultant for or you talk to a sales rep for, it’s just
0:15:28 going to give you a report on the webpage and email it to you, which in 2006, seven, eight
0:15:30 was transformational at the time.
0:15:32 That’s a long time ago, almost 20 years now.
0:15:35 And we had millions and millions of people use that.
0:15:37 Our co-founder, Dharmesh, built it himself, right?
0:15:43 Like it was not like anything fancy, but it was rooted in, he watched our other co-founder,
0:15:47 Brian, doing all these sales conversations and he was doing all this manual research.
0:15:49 And he’s like, I can make an app that does that for you.
0:15:50 And then they just gave it away.
0:15:51 And that worked really, really well.
0:15:56 Then the second thing that worked really well for us was blogging and content in the early
0:15:59 days of content and creating.
0:16:03 And what we figured out is that Google search was growing rapidly and there was an arbitrage
0:16:09 in a market inefficiency where you would search for so many things back in the day and there
0:16:10 were terrible search results, right?
0:16:13 Like you would go and like, nothing on this page is good.
0:16:17 And if we create something, we will by far be the best thing on that topic.
0:16:22 And we were able to grow from thousands to hundreds of thousands to tens of millions of
0:16:23 visits doing that.
0:16:24 We had that hypothesis.
0:16:28 We created a process to scale it and we spent a lot of time and money.
0:16:34 The other thing that people in marketing get wrong is they just, they do 10 different things
0:16:35 kind of shitty, right?
0:16:37 They’re like, I’m spread real thin.
0:16:39 I think I got to do everything.
0:16:42 You’re way better off to do one to three things better than anybody else.
0:16:47 And if you can do one to three things better than anybody else, you can build a billion
0:16:48 dollar company.
0:16:53 If you have one or two great marketing channels that you are world-class at, you cannot build
0:16:55 a $10 million company.
0:16:59 If you have 10 crappy marketing channels, I’ve seen it time and time again, it’s just how life
0:17:00 works.
0:17:03 Let’s hold that thought and take a quick break with our sponsors.
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0:21:56 So I know that HubSpot actually coined the word inbound marketing.
0:22:00 So can you help us understand for those who are new to marketing, what’s the difference
0:22:02 between inbound and outbound marketing?
0:22:06 And how was marketing different before HubSpot really came onto the scene?
0:22:09 The world of marketing changed a bunch with the internet.
0:22:16 Before the internet, people remember, it was largely TV ads, billboards, direct mail, all
0:22:16 those things.
0:22:18 And they were all really annoying, right?
0:22:19 Because you didn’t opt into any of those things.
0:22:24 The commercials interrupted your television when we didn’t have streaming services everywhere,
0:22:24 right?
0:22:29 You’d go home and your mailbox would be full of advertisements that you didn’t subscribe to
0:22:30 or didn’t want.
0:22:33 And that was very outboundy, very interruptive.
0:22:36 And we were basically like, well, now that the internet exists, there’s a whole different
0:22:36 way to do marketing.
0:22:41 You can do it in an inbound way where you create content and pull people in through search engines,
0:22:45 through social media, through email marketing, through things that people opt into and want
0:22:46 to participate in.
0:22:50 And that was now seems obvious because it’s how the internet works.
0:22:52 But 20 years ago was fairly revolutionary.
0:22:55 So we created a new category.
0:22:59 And sometimes if you’re in marketing or if you’re an entrepreneur and you’re starting
0:23:05 a company, the best thing you can do is, there’s a great quote out there, better is a debate,
0:23:06 different is a choice.
0:23:12 When you force somebody to make a choice and you do that by creating a new category where
0:23:15 it’s like, hey, do you want to do this new awesome inbound thing that works really great?
0:23:19 Or do you want to do that old stodgy outbound thing that everybody hates?
0:23:22 We tell that story and people are like, oh, I want to do the new cool thing that people
0:23:25 like, I don’t want to do the old bad thing that everybody hates.
0:23:29 But if we had just said, oh, like, hey, we can help you do your direct mail a little bit
0:23:31 better, who cares?
0:23:32 Well, maybe it’s good enough.
0:23:33 Do I really even need better?
0:23:35 I don’t know what you’re talking about, right?
0:23:42 And so painting a clear choice for your target audience is so powerful.
0:23:44 It takes a little bit longer, right?
0:23:45 Because people aren’t familiar with it.
0:23:48 There’s a level of education you have to do, but anybody can do it.
0:23:52 And if you’re in it for a long haul, if you think you have a big opportunity in your
0:23:57 business as a five, 10, 20 year thing, then it’s a really important thing to take advantage
0:24:00 of to actually be differentiated in the market.
0:24:04 I know that you’ve been talking a lot about arbitrage, unfair advantages.
0:24:08 So in 2025, what inbound strategies are working?
0:24:10 Like are blogs still working?
0:24:14 How do you think about SEO, podcasts and all that?
0:24:14 Oh, yeah.
0:24:15 It’s a great question.
0:24:17 What works in marketing in 2025?
0:24:18 A few things.
0:24:19 Creators.
0:24:25 Working, partnering, or being with creators and these modern media companies like you run,
0:24:25 Holla.
0:24:26 Huge opportunity.
0:24:28 Huge, huge opportunity there.
0:24:29 We work deeply with creators.
0:24:30 I’m a creator myself.
0:24:31 It works.
0:24:32 YouTube.
0:24:33 YouTube works.
0:24:37 YouTube is an exceptional channel to drive awareness and monetization.
0:24:42 It is much harder to disrupt through artificial intelligence, which is kind of the thing that’s
0:24:43 changing marketing the most.
0:24:44 Blogging still works.
0:24:45 It does.
0:24:51 But it works for the very focused universe of the industry you solve, where you have unique
0:24:54 data, unique insight, unique credibility.
0:24:55 You can get that.
0:24:59 You can’t go and talk about everything in the world and get search traffic, but you can focus
0:25:04 on your core niche and get a good baseline audience through blogging.
0:25:06 Those things are completely working.
0:25:11 Partnering with creators, even through advertising means hugely, hugely valuable.
0:25:16 The other thing that’s working, a lot of people are doing events and in person because we’ve
0:25:20 gotten so segmented, no shared experiences.
0:25:25 I think if you’re selling high, big ticket, expensive things, bringing people together in
0:25:30 person is becoming something that all the marketers I talk to are spending more money on
0:25:32 this year, not less money on.
0:25:33 So true.
0:25:39 And when I’m thinking about my marketing strategies and unfair advantages and untapped
0:25:45 opportunities, I’m thinking about SEO within platforms, podcast search, SEO.
0:25:50 How do I become more searchable on LinkedIn in particular, right?
0:25:52 How do I become more searchable on YouTube?
0:25:56 So when it comes to blogging, I’d love to like dig deep on this because I actually was
0:26:00 thinking I used to have a blog in my 20s that was really popular.
0:26:02 And then I was like blogging is over.
0:26:06 But sometimes these things come around and I was thinking, you know what?
0:26:09 I feel like blogs are kind of making a comeback.
0:26:11 I like with Substack becoming so popular.
0:26:17 And I was thinking, should I start a blog on my website where I create content around
0:26:22 entrepreneurship or should I leverage something like Substack and leverage that platform for
0:26:22 a blog?
0:26:25 Like what would be your advice to start from scratch or leverage a platform?
0:26:30 I have a rule that I don’t make anything without being clear on how I’m going to get it distributed
0:26:32 and what the distribution advantages are.
0:26:38 I think Substack, if you’re an entrepreneur, has a little bit of built-in audience, but it’s
0:26:42 not worth it because the bigger built-in audience is information discovery.
0:26:45 And I say that kind of broader than search.
0:26:48 And so if I were starting today, it was just me, you and I were starting a company.
0:26:49 We were going to go out and do something.
0:26:53 I would start a blog on my website for a couple of reasons.
0:26:58 One, a ton of people still use Google search and you still can get a lot of traffic from
0:26:59 Google search.
0:27:06 The second thing is people are using AI for discovery, chat GPT search, Google deep research,
0:27:09 Grok, all these things and perplexity.
0:27:16 And what we have seen is that text-based content and video-based content that’s cited in those
0:27:19 results still gets a real amount of traffic.
0:27:21 I host a podcast called Marketing Against the Grain.
0:27:27 We did a video on DeepSeek when DeepSeek first came out and it got recommended on everybody’s
0:27:33 chat GPT queries on DeepSeek and we got 50,000 views in like 24 hours because everybody was
0:27:35 searching for it and we had a really good, credible thing.
0:27:40 And so it’s almost like the distribution for text and video is getting better.
0:27:43 What’s changing is that it’s a little less attributable, right?
0:27:49 Because if somebody is getting it in like chat GPT or perplexity, they may be reading information
0:27:51 and see your link, but they might not directly click back to it.
0:27:56 A proportion are, but a much smaller portion than historically in Google, but you’re still
0:28:01 getting the awareness, the distribution, the brand recognition for being like a credible
0:28:02 resource in those things.
0:28:09 And that’s why I think you have to have a pretty healthy blog and YouTube strategy to surface in
0:28:10 all these new models.
0:28:11 Yeah.
0:28:14 And we were just talking about SEO in platforms and that’s such a great example.
0:28:17 Like how do I get better search on chat GPT?
0:28:18 That’s the future, right?
0:28:20 And by the way, there’s compounding benefits to all this, right?
0:28:25 Like if I get discovered in chat GPT and I get really good engagement on my video, then
0:28:26 YouTube’s going to be like, oh, this is clearly a good video.
0:28:29 So I’m going to prioritize it more in YouTube search.
0:28:32 And then you get more in the YouTube algorithm and the YouTube search engine.
0:28:35 And then you have a video that completely takes off because of it.
0:28:35 And that’s awesome.
0:28:41 What would you say is the secret to making content that stands out today, considering that there’s
0:28:42 so much more content?
0:28:43 There’s so much-
0:28:44 So competitive, right?
0:28:44 So competitive.
0:28:49 And it’s so easy now with AI to create videos, to create blogs.
0:28:51 You don’t really need to be a writer like you used to anymore.
0:28:53 So what’s your best advice?
0:28:56 Here’s my advice on content creation day.
0:29:00 First, people have never wanted more actionable content ever.
0:29:02 They don’t just want to learn something.
0:29:05 They want something that’s going to lead them to immediately take action.
0:29:09 And so anytime you’re creating content that can allow people to immediately take action,
0:29:14 that they can take, especially like in free tools or free platforms, that’s going to take
0:29:14 off.
0:29:15 It’s going to go great.
0:29:16 I see that all the time.
0:29:18 I imagine you see that all the time.
0:29:21 That is clearly a trend that is happening.
0:29:25 The second thing people want is unique data and perspective.
0:29:30 If you have a survey of 2,000 people in a given industry, people are going to check it
0:29:32 out because they want to know the benchmark.
0:29:33 They want to see how they’re doing.
0:29:34 They’re competitive.
0:29:35 They want to compare themselves.
0:29:37 All that stuff happens, right?
0:29:40 And so you are going to see that be a real standout thing.
0:29:46 And so that’s where proprietary research, customer data, things like that are a huge leverage.
0:29:50 And then the third is, can you be really contrarian and have a good argument?
0:29:56 Can you go against the status quo and change people’s thinking with a real deep and thoughtful
0:29:58 reasoned argument about something?
0:30:01 And if you can do that, you’re also going to get people’s attention.
0:30:01 What would you add?
0:30:02 You’re doing this all the time.
0:30:03 What’d I miss?
0:30:06 I think at the core of it is, how do you help people?
0:30:10 How do you actually bring value where people feel like, oh, wow, I learned something.
0:30:12 Oh, this is something unique and meaningful.
0:30:18 This is not just regurgitating what’s out there or just clickbait for me to just get on this
0:30:18 page.
0:30:22 And there’s actually no good information or no good tools like you were mentioning.
0:30:28 So you want to just figure out how to actually teach people something that they can’t really
0:30:29 find anywhere else.
0:30:31 So that’s what I feel like is really working.
0:30:35 The prompt I’ve always given myself is, is what I’m about to do going to be 10 times more
0:30:36 valuable for people?
0:30:40 Or would somebody pay $1,000, $2,000 to have access to this?
0:30:44 And if the answer to one of those two questions is yes, it’s going to be really successful.
0:30:48 And if the answer is no, it’s probably going to be middly and average.
0:30:48 Totally agree.
0:30:51 So how do you think about email?
0:30:55 So email is one of those channels that have been around forever, but it’s still really effective.
0:30:56 What are your thoughts about it?
0:30:59 How do you think we should best leverage it in 2025?
0:31:00 Email is super important.
0:31:03 And here’s why email is super important from like a principle base.
0:31:05 It’s one of the few channels you actually control.
0:31:06 There’s not an algorithm.
0:31:11 Somebody gives you permission to email them and you get to send them a message and you
0:31:12 actually own that email address.
0:31:16 Somebody can’t come along and change the Google algorithm, the YouTube algorithm, the LinkedIn
0:31:16 algorithm.
0:31:20 I know people are all up in arms about LinkedIn algorithm changes recently.
0:31:26 And so that’s the real value of email marketing is that you have way more ownership and control
0:31:29 of email marketing than most other channels out there.
0:31:34 And so once you kind of have that foundation, you’re like, okay, email marketing still matters.
0:31:36 What am I going to do?
0:31:43 And the number one thing you’re going to do is to have as highly personalized email as
0:31:44 possible, and that’s writing your emails with AI.
0:31:49 So one of the things we did at HubSpot is we have what’s called HubSpot Academy, which
0:31:53 teaches you how to do marketing, how to use our software, all of those things.
0:31:57 And there’s a bunch of different courses on HubSpot Academy.
0:32:04 And we basically, when people come into HubSpot and maybe consume an article or a free guide
0:32:08 or a webinar or what have you, we’ll then send a follow-up email that is custom, one-on-one,
0:32:14 written from them by AI, and that we recommend based on everything we know about them, the
0:32:17 content they’ve consumed, what the best course for them to take is.
0:32:19 Not only do we mention their business, but we have puns.
0:32:21 Like AI has gotten very good at that.
0:32:25 And it feels like a human researches company and wrote them an email.
0:32:30 And that email converts 80% to 100% better than our normal emails.
0:32:36 And so that is, number one, anything you can do to better personalize your email and make
0:32:41 it relevant to their problem and their experience with your company and your website, you’re going
0:32:42 to get much, much better results.
0:32:46 The other thing I would add when it comes to email is you were talking about giving
0:32:48 away free tools, free content.
0:32:53 Instead of having people pay for it, make their email the way that they pay for that content,
0:32:54 right?
0:32:57 You want to just collect as many emails as possible.
0:33:01 One of the biggest regrets that I have is that I only started collecting emails like three
0:33:01 years ago.
0:33:06 I wish I started seven years ago and really made it a point to collect emails.
0:33:10 So what are the best ways that people can grow their email list right now?
0:33:11 What do you suggest?
0:33:16 Look, you give them the great ways to do that, which is offer something really valuable that
0:33:18 you consider charging money for.
0:33:21 Remember that marketing is kind of a lesson in economics.
0:33:24 It’s what do you want to sell versus what do you want to give away to sell a bigger thing
0:33:25 down the road?
0:33:27 And how do you offset how you think about that?
0:33:32 And so for me, the things that are really good, if you have any free tools, great.
0:33:37 If you have any templates, like you do the work of building out a big Excel sheet with formulas
0:33:41 and everything that people could just drop their own data in, they will give you an email.
0:33:47 One of the things that worked really well at HubSpot back in the day, and you can do similar
0:33:53 versions of this now, is we would find our customers always needed stock photography and
0:33:56 imagery for their email newsletters, their landing page.
0:34:01 And I was like, well, what if we just hire a freelance photographer, buy the rights out
0:34:06 for like $10,000 to 500 different pictures, and we just give those away for free instead
0:34:08 of them having to pay Getty Images or all these people.
0:34:12 And I think over the years, we’ve had like 5 million downloads.
0:34:18 I can’t even tell you how popular that has been, but it’s looking at your market, thinking
0:34:22 about something that they do that they spend money on and say, hey, can I give that to them
0:34:23 for free?
0:34:29 And if you can, you will get whatever information you want in exchange for them saving that money.
0:34:32 And I think people need to realize that a lot of this marketing strategy is a long game.
0:34:37 Like sometimes you’re marketing to somebody who might start a company in four years and
0:34:39 might need your services four years down the line.
0:34:41 So you guys have free trials.
0:34:46 For me, I collect emails, I do webinars, and sometimes that leads to a course that’s pretty
0:34:47 expensive.
0:34:51 And people might attend three, four webinars before they actually purchase the course, but
0:34:54 I’m investing in them, building that trust.
0:34:59 And so talk to me about how you guys think about your free HubSpot service.
0:35:04 Why are you guys giving away your tools for free initially?
0:35:07 About 10 years ago, we were like, hey, you know what?
0:35:11 The world is changing and trust is becoming the most important thing.
0:35:16 And one of the ways you can build trust with people is to let them try before they buy, right?
0:35:18 And like your webinar is a great example of that.
0:35:23 It’s like, hey, if I’m on a 30, 60-minute webinar with you, I probably have a pretty good
0:35:27 idea about what your course is going to look like, what the quality is going to be, what
0:35:28 it’s going to feel like, the experience.
0:35:31 And so I’m much more likely to have trust and go buy that course.
0:35:37 So if you use our free version of HubSpot CRM, you’re much more likely to buy a paid version
0:35:38 because you’re like, hey, you know what?
0:35:39 I’m up and running on this.
0:35:41 I’ve closed a couple of deals with it.
0:35:45 I understand the features that if I pay for them that I would get.
0:35:46 And you know what?
0:35:49 I kind of need them because I think I would make even more money if I paid for those features.
0:35:51 And it’s a whole different game.
0:35:55 Right now, we all have access to infinite knowledge with AI.
0:35:57 Knowledge is a complete commodity.
0:36:00 So in that world, trust becomes everything.
0:36:03 People can know who you are, but they can still not trust you at all.
0:36:06 And giving that value away is how you build trust.
0:36:09 And so for us, the free version of our product is how we do it.
0:36:11 But you have webinars.
0:36:14 There is a version of that for any business, is I think what I would say.
0:36:20 And I think the main lesson is don’t be afraid to give away great things that people can actually
0:36:21 use for free.
0:36:27 Don’t be afraid for people to have to have enough for a couple months or whatever to do what they
0:36:29 need to do because it’s going to build that trust.
0:36:32 I have a maxim I live by, and it’s distribution is undefeated.
0:36:36 If you can get a big audience, you can always figure out how to make money on it.
0:36:37 The inverse is not true.
0:36:43 You can have an expensive product and sell it to a few people, or you can have a big audience
0:36:46 and sell it to a lot, lot more people, but it’s going to take a little bit of time.
0:36:48 It’s a different way of thinking.
0:36:52 But distribution is the biggest reason most businesses don’t grow because they just don’t
0:36:56 have a big enough audience, universe of people who actually care about them and the thing that
0:36:58 they’re offering in the world.
0:37:01 We’ll be right back after a quick break from our sponsors.
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0:40:52 So CRMs, I’ve got a lot of young entrepreneurs who are probably working at spreadsheets and
0:40:53 doing everything manually.
0:40:57 What is a CRM, and how do startups benefits from CRMs?
0:41:02 So if you think about CRM, there’s lots of views of what CRMs are.
0:41:06 But what they really are is a single source of truth for your customers and your prospects.
0:41:12 So instead of your support team working out of a project management system, sales reps working
0:41:16 out of spreadsheets, all of those things, everybody, your marketers,
0:41:22 your sellers, your customer service folks, all working, updating one record, all the context
0:41:25 in one place, and then being able to do really powerful things, whether it be advertising,
0:41:31 email marketing, marketing automation, sales call prep, sales follow-up, sales automation,
0:41:31 all of those things.
0:41:33 That’s what you’re talking about doing.
0:41:38 And you’re going to see CRM be way more important over the next couple of years, because what’s
0:41:42 going to happen with CRM over the next even year is that all the unstructured data,
0:41:47 your meeting recordings, the emails you exchange, all of those things, all that context are going
0:41:49 to make it way better.
0:41:52 Your CRM is just going to generate the email follow-up to your meeting for you.
0:41:53 And it’s like, oh, great.
0:41:57 I know I need to follow up for this meeting, but I’ve got to go run to this other meeting
0:41:57 right now.
0:41:58 Well, it’s great.
0:42:02 I can do it in 30 seconds versus having to do it 15 minutes tonight when I have forgotten
0:42:04 half the things and need to go look them up.
0:42:05 Right?
0:42:07 And that is why CRM is so important.
0:42:12 It also is when you have all your data in one place, you can do real reporting and actually
0:42:14 understand what’s working and what’s not working.
0:42:20 And as somebody who has helped grow a business from tens of millions of dollars to billions
0:42:26 of dollars, it’s done through basic iteration over a long period of time, finding problems,
0:42:28 solving them and building and iterating.
0:42:31 And you can’t do that without your data in place and some clear reporting.
0:42:36 Yeah, that’s what I’m most excited about, being able to track everything, having everything
0:42:37 in one place.
0:42:41 If I’m like, what’s happening with the sales deal, I can click in, see all the conversations
0:42:45 to your point, like AI summaries and things like that are coming out.
0:42:48 Have you guys been thinking about AI agents at all?
0:42:50 Tons, tons of AI agents.
0:42:53 So first of all, the most used AI features at HubSpot.
0:42:55 One is to prep for sales meetings.
0:42:59 So we have a co-pilot where it just will take everything from a conduct record and give you
0:43:00 the full prep summary.
0:43:01 That’s awesome.
0:43:03 We have an agent called Content Remix.
0:43:05 So like, let’s say you’re going to run a content campaign.
0:43:06 You’re going to do an email newsletter.
0:43:07 So you’re going to do a webinar.
0:43:08 You’re going to do a webinar.
0:43:15 It will spin up the landing page, the email, the ad assets, everything for you and does all
0:43:16 the manual work in the background.
0:43:22 And then we also have a product that our co-founder or mesh started called Agent.ai, which is a marketplace
0:43:26 of agents where you can go and anybody can build or use different agents.
0:43:32 It’s kind of like a modern automation marketplace where if you have a problem, you can either use
0:43:35 Agent.ai to build it or somebody’s already built it and you can just use their agent.
0:43:41 Like a really good example is there’s a company research agent that will give you like a McKinsey
0:43:44 analyst level kind of deep detail briefing.
0:43:48 Who’s the CEO, funding history, core products, competitors, the whole thing.
0:43:51 And it’ll do it in like two minutes, right?
0:43:52 Perfectly formatted for free.
0:43:55 That is just a game changer when it comes to agents.
0:44:02 If you are in marketing and in sales and you’re feeling overwhelmed with AI and leveraging AI,
0:44:03 how would you approach it?
0:44:07 I would pick one AI tool and get really good at it.
0:44:09 And for marketers, that’s probably Claude.
0:44:12 For sellers, that’s probably ChatGPT.
0:44:14 And you’re going to use those tools.
0:44:15 The reason I say Claude has the best taste.
0:44:16 It’s really good at writing.
0:44:22 You can upload to projects in Claude and have really great specific, highly repeatable writing
0:44:24 output that’s core to marketing.
0:44:31 For sellers, I think one of the best AI features that exists on the planet is ChatGPT’s deep
0:44:37 research feature where you can have it go and just build a incredibly complex research report.
0:44:42 And it might research a problem for 5, 10, 20 minutes with all these different agents in
0:44:44 the background going and doing that.
0:44:51 And you having the full map to an industry, the accounts within the industry, how your product
0:44:56 maps, core competitors in that industry, those things become super valuable.
0:44:59 So that’s where I would focus if I was just like feeling overwhelmed and not yet started.
0:45:02 I feel like we’ve learned so much so far about marketing.
0:45:08 I’d love to move into customer service because it’s not only important to bring in customers,
0:45:09 we’ve got to retain them.
0:45:13 So how does HubSpot help people in a CRM?
0:45:16 How does that actually help with your retention, with your customer service?
0:45:17 A few things.
0:45:22 So one of the other agents we have is called our customer agent, and it basically helps
0:45:23 resolve customer support.
0:45:28 Like the average HubSpot customer solves 30% of their support questions are answered by AI,
0:45:29 are answered by our agent.
0:45:35 And so that’s 30% less support people, support time, founder time, depending on the size and
0:45:36 scale of company that you have to spend.
0:45:41 And if you focus on it, we’ve seen customers get to like 50, 60% deflection, which is huge,
0:45:43 saves so much time and so much money.
0:45:51 And the biggest reason why that’s important is because in today’s internet, where everything
0:45:55 is highly competitive, as we’ve talked all show about, it’s never been easier for a customer
0:45:55 to switch.
0:45:58 So your core economics are going to be retaining that customer.
0:46:03 I’m sure you see that your best customers are people who take multiple courses, people who
0:46:05 do multiple purchases with you.
0:46:11 And if you don’t have good customer service, good onboarding, good customer support, man,
0:46:12 they’re going to be out really quick.
0:46:17 And I think it’s one of the things most entrepreneurs overlook early on.
0:46:21 They get so obsessed with sales and bringing those customers in, they’re like, oh gosh, why
0:46:23 did like 80% of my customers leave this year?
0:46:25 That’s because I haven’t been focused on it at all.
0:46:27 I don’t have any of the infrastructure to actually focus on it.
0:46:34 How can we better align marketing and sales so that we have the best customer service?
0:46:38 Customer service is largely about setting expectations, right?
0:46:40 Which is, do I know what I bought?
0:46:43 Do I know what I’m going to use the thing I bought for?
0:46:46 And do I know how I’m going to think that that’s valuable?
0:46:49 If the answer to those things are yes, that customer is normally pretty happy.
0:46:51 If it’s no, they’re going to be pretty unhappy.
0:46:55 And so marketing’s job is to set up the value proposition early on.
0:47:01 A sales job is to not oversell, to not make promises that the product can’t keep, and to
0:47:06 understand that customer’s business enough to understand that this is how you’re actually
0:47:08 going to use this thing once you buy it.
0:47:13 And then customer success and customer supporter, their job is to help you get onboarded and get
0:47:15 any blockers.
0:47:16 Because there’s always unique things.
0:47:20 Your business has this problem that isn’t relevant to our other customers that we need
0:47:20 to help you solve.
0:47:25 And once you fix those problems, the customer’s going to be very happy.
0:47:28 It’s normally in one of those stages where things go off the rails.
0:47:33 We just rolled out a new customer survey to try to see how our agency clients are feeling,
0:47:34 how our network clients are feeling.
0:47:36 It was really, really helpful.
0:47:40 Do you have any suggestions of the type of questions you should ask your customers to get
0:47:40 their feedback?
0:47:47 The most helpful thing that we have done and learned over the years is we always run a monthly
0:47:50 net promoter score survey with our customers.
0:47:53 Net promoter score is a question we all see.
0:47:55 How likely are you to rank the company from one to 10?
0:47:57 And please tell us why.
0:48:00 And the score, kind of important.
0:48:03 The tell us why is very important.
0:48:09 And the reason for that is you get a real sentiment as to what people value or like or dislike about
0:48:10 your product.
0:48:15 And now with AI, if you run a survey like that, you can take all of those text responses
0:48:17 and just get the core themes very quickly.
0:48:25 And what your job is with any customer surveying and why I think NPS is so good is to not have
0:48:27 problems be festering and systemic.
0:48:28 You always want new problems.
0:48:31 So it’s like, oh, our customer support’s back.
0:48:31 Great.
0:48:33 Let’s fix our customer support.
0:48:35 And then you won’t hear anything about customer support.
0:48:40 You’ll hear about a new thing like product speed or, oh, our client portal is tricky.
0:48:41 You hear all these things, right?
0:48:48 And so I think the net promoter score question is the best because it gives you where the big
0:48:49 root cause are.
0:48:52 When you ask specific questions, you often get the symptoms without the root cause.
0:48:56 I want to close out our interview with some scenarios that I think are going to be really
0:48:56 fun.
0:48:57 Okay.
0:49:00 So you are a brand new entrepreneur.
0:49:04 You have like a little bit of money, but mostly you have time.
0:49:05 So you have time to invest.
0:49:09 What would you do for your marketing strategy launching a new company?
0:49:09 All right.
0:49:12 If I’m time rich and money poor, what would I do?
0:49:19 The first thing I am doing is I am figuring out what type of creator I need to be, right?
0:49:21 Am I going to be YouTube, LinkedIn?
0:49:22 What’s my product?
0:49:22 What’s my market?
0:49:26 And I got to start creating and I got to create on the daily because I’m time rich.
0:49:30 I got the time to make every day and I got to make something every day.
0:49:33 And I’m going to use AI tools to help me keep up the pace of production.
0:49:36 And they’re free to very low cost.
0:49:38 So I can take advantage of that.
0:49:43 And then the second thing I’m going to do is I’m going to find one area where my target
0:49:49 audience spends a lot of time that I might be able to reach them in a very interesting
0:49:50 way.
0:49:54 Like an example of this is the early days of LinkedIn groups, right?
0:49:59 What you could do in the early days of LinkedIn groups is sponsor messages to that the group
0:50:00 owner could send to the entire group.
0:50:03 And we would go and we would spend money to do that.
0:50:05 And nobody else was doing that.
0:50:09 And we got hugely efficient lead generation by doing that.
0:50:12 And it’s just like, oh, a million marketers in this group.
0:50:14 Nobody is really going after them.
0:50:15 How do we get them?
0:50:18 I think the whole theme of this episode is unfair advantage.
0:50:21 I remember when I started my podcast, I started on LinkedIn.
0:50:25 I wanted to target young professionals and nobody was talking about podcasts.
0:50:27 Nobody was putting up anything about podcasts.
0:50:30 And then I became the number one podcaster on LinkedIn.
0:50:33 But it was already a channel where people were hanging out.
0:50:34 They just weren’t doing what I was doing.
0:50:39 So what is your way of cutting through the noise and getting in front of a lot of people
0:50:40 in a creative way?
0:50:45 OK, now, what if you exited a company, you’re slightly older, you’ve got more experience,
0:50:49 you’ve got some money, but you’ve got a family, you’ve got a lot going on, but you do want to
0:50:50 start a new company.
0:50:52 What would you do to market your company?
0:50:54 Money richer, time poor.
0:50:56 Yeah, exactly.
0:50:56 OK.
0:51:02 If I have some resources to do this, it’s not going to be that dissimilar.
0:51:07 I think the channels work, how I’m going to accomplish those channels.
0:51:13 I’d probably still be a creator, but I would hire an agency to help me do all the post-production,
0:51:16 to do the research, do all that.
0:51:17 And I would use AI to prep.
0:51:22 But I would need somebody if I was time poor to tell me, oh, these topics suck.
0:51:23 They’re not working.
0:51:24 These are the new topics we should do.
0:51:30 They kind of give you the cheat sheet of editorial and iteration for sure.
0:51:34 And then if you have some money, you can use programmatic ad platforms.
0:51:40 You can use Google, you can use Meta, that will give you enough baseline revenue to kind
0:51:41 of start reinvesting.
0:51:44 And so I would probably use YouTube ads, to be honest with you.
0:51:50 YouTube ad targeting is great, and the cost is so much lower than Google and Facebook and
0:51:52 Instagram that I would probably do that.
0:51:53 Yeah.
0:51:55 There’s plenty of agencies, like my agency, for example.
0:51:56 Yes.
0:51:57 I was sure to show up.
0:51:59 We do everything for you.
0:52:03 If you want a podcast, you show up to record, or we literally just write everything on your
0:52:03 behalf.
0:52:06 So if you’ve got money, you can invest, like you said, in an agency.
0:52:10 I know we only have a couple of minutes left, so I got to wrap up, even though I really want
0:52:12 to keep asking you more questions.
0:52:16 So the last questions that I have, I ask all of my guests.
0:52:19 And this doesn’t have to do with, you don’t have to even talk about marketing.
0:52:20 You can talk about whatever you want.
0:52:25 So what is one actionable thing our young and profiters can do today to become more profitable
0:52:26 tomorrow?
0:52:28 Start using AI.
0:52:34 Pick a foundational model, chat GPT, Claude, Google Gemini, and use it every day.
0:52:37 Once or twice a day, every day.
0:52:37 Build the habit.
0:52:39 It’s very important for the future.
0:52:42 And what is your secret to profiting in life?
0:52:44 And this can go beyond financial.
0:52:48 I just bought a piece of art that says, if you don’t know, find out, be endlessly curious.
0:52:53 Be endlessly curious and ask questions.
0:52:54 Never feel like you’re stupid.
0:52:57 Just go and ask all the questions.
0:53:00 And if you’re curious about something, just call somebody up.
0:53:00 You’ll be shocked.
0:53:01 People will give you time.
0:53:04 People will give you information if you care enough to know it.
0:53:09 And then once you have that knowledge, your life is just way better in every single way.
0:53:13 And where can everybody learn more about you and everything that you do?
0:53:16 You can check out HubSpot.com, product, everything there.
0:53:20 I host Marketing Against the Grain over on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.
0:53:21 You can check out Marketing Against the Grain.
0:53:22 Perfect.
0:53:25 And I’m really excited that I get to go on your show soon.
0:53:26 Yeah, you’re coming on Marketing Against the Grain soon.
0:53:26 So I can’t wait.
0:53:27 We get to talk again.
0:53:30 And maybe I’ll play that on this podcast so you guys can get more of Kip.
0:53:31 I love that.
0:53:32 I’m excited to have you on.
0:53:33 We’ll catch up again real soon.
0:53:34 Awesome.
0:53:34 Thank you, Kip.
0:53:35 Thanks, Hala.
0:53:42 Well, that about does it for this episode.
0:53:46 And I thought Kip Bodnar touched on so many of the key themes that I’ve been preaching
0:53:47 for a while now.
0:53:49 For example, I love his approach to entrepreneurship.
0:53:53 You don’t actually have to start your own company to be an entrepreneur.
0:53:58 You just need to think like an entrepreneur, even when you work at a large company.
0:54:03 Like Kip said, entrepreneurship is about solving problems and finding ways to do so that others
0:54:04 miss.
0:54:08 And one of the best ways to do that is to find out where you have an unfair advantage
0:54:10 over somebody else.
0:54:12 That is where your opportunity lies.
0:54:14 And that’s where true value can be created.
0:54:18 Marketing is likewise about locating opportunities.
0:54:20 What are the market inefficiencies?
0:54:23 Where can you take advantage of arbitrage?
0:54:24 What is undervalued?
0:54:28 Where can you buy at a low price and sell at a high price?
0:54:31 So where are all the opportunities in 2025?
0:54:33 Kip pointed to several good ones.
0:54:34 First, events.
0:54:39 Bringing people together for shared experiences and to demonstrate your own value.
0:54:40 Next, YouTube.
0:54:43 Still an incredible channel to drive awareness.
0:54:48 We also talked about blogging, including your own website, which can be an effective way to
0:54:54 reach people, especially as more advanced AI search tools drive users to relevant content.
0:54:57 And also, lastly, don’t sleep on email marketing.
0:55:02 It can be really useful, especially if you use AI tools to target and personalize your messaging.
0:55:07 Finally, whatever method, I really want you to think about what you can teach others.
0:55:12 What do you have to offer that is thoughtful, that is interesting, that is unique, that is
0:55:15 going to grab somebody’s collar and make them pay attention?
0:55:19 That, after all, is what the best marketing does.
0:55:21 Thank you for your attention.
0:55:25 And I know that there’s so many places you can direct it, and I’m so grateful that you’re
0:55:27 spending time with me and Young and Profiting Podcast.
0:55:32 And if you listened, learned, and profited from this conversation, please bring it to somebody
0:55:32 else’s attention.
0:55:36 Share this episode with somebody who you know could benefit from it.
0:55:41 And also, why not drop us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, CastBox, wherever
0:55:42 you listen to the show.
0:55:46 Nothing thanks us more than a good review from you.
0:55:50 And if you prefer to watch our podcasts as videos, you can find us on YouTube.
0:55:54 You can also find me on Instagram at Yap with Hala or LinkedIn by searching my name.
0:55:56 It’s Hala Taha.
0:55:59 And of course, I got to shout out my talented Yap production team.
0:56:00 You guys are amazing.
0:56:02 Thank you for all your hard work.
0:56:06 This is your host, Hala Taha, aka the Podcast Princess, signing off.
0:56:20 This is your host, Hala Taha.