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0:00:31 Megan Rapinoe here.
0:00:35 This episode, we are riding the vibes of W All-Star.
0:00:38 We talk about our favorite moments on and off the court,
0:00:40 and we catch up with the breakout stars of The Weeknd,
0:00:45 Courtney Williams and Natisha Heidemann, a.k.a. the Stud Buds.
0:00:47 Plus, we get into all the drama at the Euros.
0:00:49 Check out our latest episode of A Touch More
0:00:51 wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTube.
0:00:57 I’m Scott Galloway, and this is No Mercy, No Malice.
0:01:01 It’s getting late, early for late-night television.
0:01:05 But don’t worry, they’re just being reconstituted as podcasts.
0:01:10 Same irreverence, same talent, just 90% less production costs.
0:01:14 Last Laugh, as read by George Hahn.
0:01:26 It’s getting awfully late, early, for late-night TV.
0:01:31 Stephen Colbert shocked his audience on July 17th
0:01:35 with the news that CBS had canceled The Late Show.
0:01:41 I interpreted it as the latest sign of America’s descent into fascism.
0:01:44 Another media company bending the knee.
0:01:50 The headlines came just three days after Colbert slammed Paramount’s decision
0:01:55 to pay Trump $16 million to settle a nuisance lawsuit
0:01:57 over the editing of a 60 Minutes interview,
0:02:00 calling it a big, fat bribe.
0:02:03 CBS is part of Paramount,
0:02:07 which needed the Trump administration to bless the transfer of billions
0:02:11 from one billionaire nepo baby, David Ellison,
0:02:15 to another billionaire nepo baby, Sherry Redstone.
0:02:20 At some point, people will notice the only ones willing to buy media companies
0:02:23 are rich kids who didn’t have to actually make any money.
0:02:24 But I digress.
0:02:27 I was wrong about Colbert.
0:02:31 Economics are driving him out, not politics.
0:02:34 Granted, two things can be true at once,
0:02:37 and Colbert’s constant ribbing of the president
0:02:40 probably made his walk on the green mile shorter.
0:02:42 But let’s be clear.
0:02:44 Winter was coming.
0:02:49 This is an overdue reshaping of the supply chain in TV.
0:02:52 Colbert isn’t going anywhere.
0:02:56 It’s 185 of the 200 people working for him
0:02:58 who are going to be getting their real estate licenses.
0:03:02 The media reaction was outrage.
0:03:05 Nothing is more precious than a 60-something comedian
0:03:08 who earns 100 times what his staff makes,
0:03:09 getting furious at the suits.
0:03:13 But the opportunistic infection that took a weakened,
0:03:15 late-night show down
0:03:19 was the WGA’s decision to go on strike in 2023.
0:03:24 Netflix, and, to a lesser extent, scripted TV,
0:03:26 had enough shows in the bank
0:03:28 to hang on to all or most of their audience,
0:03:31 respectively, for about five months.
0:03:35 But nobody was going to tune in to Jimmy Kimmel
0:03:37 to see Michael Avenatti again.
0:03:40 When late-night went dark,
0:03:41 millions of Americans realized
0:03:43 they didn’t miss it,
0:03:44 and they never returned.
0:03:48 Jon Stewart should tell the WGA board,
0:03:49 not Paramount’s management,
0:03:51 to go fuck themselves.
0:03:56 From New York,
0:03:57 The Tonight Show,
0:03:59 starring Johnny Carson.
0:04:01 Johnny Carson,
0:04:03 the king of late-night
0:04:05 during his three-decade run
0:04:07 as host of The Tonight Show,
0:04:09 attracted a nightly audience
0:04:11 of 10 million to 15 million
0:04:12 at his peak.
0:04:15 Adjusted for population growth,
0:04:16 that would be like
0:04:18 25 million people
0:04:19 tuning in tonight.
0:04:21 By the late 70s,
0:04:24 tonight accounted for 17%
0:04:26 of NBC’s revenue.
0:04:29 Live from the NBC studios
0:04:30 in Burbank, California,
0:04:31 The Tonight Show,
0:04:32 with Jay Leno.
0:04:34 In 1988,
0:04:36 a few years before Carson
0:04:37 handed the reins to Jay Leno,
0:04:40 advertising dollars spent
0:04:41 on late-night TV
0:04:43 surged to more than
0:04:45 $1.2 billion
0:04:47 as carmakers,
0:04:48 beverage companies,
0:04:50 and movie studios
0:04:52 rushed to win over
0:04:53 younger, more affluent consumers.
0:04:56 In 2002,
0:04:59 Leno’s show routinely attracted
0:05:00 more than 5 million viewers
0:05:01 a night.
0:05:02 Still strong.
0:05:04 And late-night shows
0:05:05 continued to deliver
0:05:06 into the next decade.
0:05:09 About 15 years ago,
0:05:11 a popular late-night program
0:05:11 could earn
0:05:13 about $100 million
0:05:13 a year.
0:05:15 Those days
0:05:17 are gone.
0:05:19 The entertainment sector
0:05:20 has experienced
0:05:22 a seismic shift,
0:05:23 with late-night TV
0:05:24 advertising revenue
0:05:27 collapsing 50%
0:05:28 to an estimated
0:05:30 $220 million
0:05:31 in 2024
0:05:34 from $439 million
0:05:36 in 2018,
0:05:37 according to
0:05:38 data firm guideline.
0:05:41 In the five years
0:05:41 leading up to its
0:05:43 Chapter 11 filing,
0:05:44 General Motors’
0:05:45 revenue declined
0:05:46 40%.
0:05:48 In sum,
0:05:50 if late-night television
0:05:52 were a stand-alone business,
0:05:53 it would have declared
0:05:55 bankruptcy last year.
0:05:58 During the last
0:05:58 two months,
0:06:00 for the first time
0:06:00 ever,
0:06:02 viewers spent
0:06:03 more time
0:06:04 watching streaming
0:06:05 services,
0:06:06 including YouTube
0:06:06 and Netflix,
0:06:08 than the broadcast
0:06:09 and cable networks
0:06:11 combined.
0:06:13 We’re still catching
0:06:14 the highlight clips
0:06:15 of late-night TV,
0:06:17 but as they do
0:06:18 with the rest of media,
0:06:20 technology platforms
0:06:21 rent the content
0:06:22 for two cents
0:06:23 on the dollar.
0:06:26 It isn’t the end
0:06:26 of Colbert.
0:06:28 It’s the end
0:06:29 of late-night TV.
0:06:32 Colbert’s late show
0:06:33 reportedly has been
0:06:34 losing more than
0:06:35 $40 million a year
0:06:36 for CBS,
0:06:37 with a budget
0:06:39 of $100 million
0:06:40 per season
0:06:41 and about
0:06:43 200 employees.
0:06:45 Colbert quipped,
0:06:45 quote,
0:06:47 I could see us
0:06:48 losing $24 million,
0:06:49 but where would
0:06:50 Paramount have
0:06:51 possibly spent
0:06:51 the other
0:06:52 $16 million?
0:06:54 Oh, yeah.
0:06:56 Unquote.
0:06:59 Assuming the show
0:07:00 is reeling in
0:07:00 $60 million
0:07:01 a year
0:07:02 in revenue,
0:07:03 that equates
0:07:05 to $300,000
0:07:07 per employee.
0:07:09 But less than
0:07:10 10%
0:07:11 of the late show’s
0:07:11 audience
0:07:12 is between
0:07:14 18 and 49
0:07:15 years old,
0:07:16 that coveted
0:07:16 demographic
0:07:17 still in their
0:07:18 mating years
0:07:19 and making
0:07:19 irrational
0:07:20 high-margin
0:07:21 purchases.
0:07:22 And one of
0:07:23 the key
0:07:23 insights from
0:07:24 the 2024
0:07:26 election is
0:07:26 that podcast
0:07:28 listeners swing
0:07:29 elections as
0:07:30 they are much
0:07:31 younger and
0:07:32 more likely to
0:07:33 be swayed.
0:07:35 Nine out of
0:07:36 ten people who
0:07:37 watch cable news
0:07:38 and late night
0:07:39 from an economic
0:07:41 lens don’t
0:07:42 matter.
0:07:44 Think about it.
0:07:45 As a percentage
0:07:46 of the population,
0:07:47 late night has
0:07:49 shed 90% of its
0:07:50 audience over
0:07:50 the past
0:07:51 several decades.
0:07:53 Contrast
0:07:54 Colbert with
0:07:55 our company,
0:07:56 Prof G Media.
0:07:57 I never miss
0:07:58 the opportunity
0:07:58 to boast.
0:08:00 We expect
0:08:01 to generate
0:08:02 $15 million
0:08:03 to $20 million
0:08:04 in annual
0:08:05 revenue next
0:08:05 year,
0:08:06 with about
0:08:07 15 full-time
0:08:07 people.
0:08:09 That figure,
0:08:10 which excludes
0:08:11 my podcast
0:08:11 Pivot with
0:08:12 Tara Swisher,
0:08:13 equates to
0:08:14 $1 million
0:08:16 to $1.3
0:08:17 million per
0:08:17 employee.
0:08:19 Unlike the
0:08:20 late night
0:08:20 category,
0:08:21 we’re growing
0:08:22 20% to
0:08:24 30% annually,
0:08:25 with half
0:08:26 of our
0:08:27 listeners in
0:08:27 the 18 to
0:08:28 49 age
0:08:29 bracket.
0:08:30 We’re
0:08:31 reaching nearly
0:08:32 as many of
0:08:32 the core
0:08:33 demographic as
0:08:34 late night,
0:08:36 with 8% of
0:08:37 the staff and
0:08:37 cost.
0:08:41 TV’s
0:08:42 biggest stars
0:08:42 are simply
0:08:43 arbitraging the
0:08:44 means of
0:08:44 production,
0:08:45 i.e.
0:08:46 losing 90%
0:08:47 of their
0:08:47 staff.
0:08:48 the talent
0:08:49 in front
0:08:49 of the
0:08:50 camera and
0:08:51 mic has
0:08:51 figured out
0:08:52 how to
0:08:52 hold on to
0:08:53 their income
0:08:54 and cultural
0:08:55 relevance by
0:08:56 reducing
0:08:57 production costs.
0:08:58 When Fox
0:08:59 News fired
0:09:00 Tucker Carlson
0:09:01 in 2023,
0:09:03 a week after
0:09:03 the network
0:09:04 settled a
0:09:05 defamation
0:09:05 lawsuit with
0:09:06 Dominion Voting
0:09:07 Systems for
0:09:08 almost $800
0:09:09 million,
0:09:11 he embraced
0:09:12 his newfound
0:09:12 independence.
0:09:14 The Tucker
0:09:15 Carlson
0:09:16 show averaged
0:09:17 1.06
0:09:18 million views
0:09:19 throughout most
0:09:20 of June and
0:09:21 sat at number
0:09:23 11 on YouTube’s
0:09:24 podcast rankings last
0:09:24 week.
0:09:27 Even if his
0:09:28 audience is smaller
0:09:28 than it was
0:09:30 previously, he’s
0:09:31 likely capturing
0:09:32 similar economic
0:09:33 value, i.e.
0:09:34 pay, with a
0:09:35 smaller team.
0:09:38 Podcasts are
0:09:40 TV, just
0:09:40 more
0:09:41 efficient.
0:09:43 Megyn Kelly,
0:09:44 ousted from
0:09:45 NBC in
0:09:46 2019, is
0:09:47 another example.
0:09:48 Semaphore
0:09:49 reported last
0:09:50 year that her
0:09:51 Megyn Kelly
0:09:51 show was
0:09:53 drawing audiences
0:09:53 comparable to
0:09:54 those of the
0:09:55 legacy media
0:09:56 outlets, with
0:09:58 only six
0:09:59 employees.
0:10:00 The show,
0:10:01 among the
0:10:02 most followed
0:10:02 political
0:10:03 podcasts in
0:10:04 the U.S.,
0:10:06 had 3.5
0:10:07 million subscribers
0:10:08 in March.
0:10:09 Finally,
0:10:10 consider
0:10:11 Conan O’Brien,
0:10:12 who hosted
0:10:13 Late Night and
0:10:14 The Tonight
0:10:15 Show, both on
0:10:16 NBC and then
0:10:16 Conan on
0:10:17 TBS.
0:10:19 I’d speculate
0:10:20 that O’Brien,
0:10:21 who launched
0:10:21 the weekly
0:10:22 podcast Conan
0:10:23 O’Brien Needs
0:10:24 a Friend in
0:10:25 2018, and
0:10:26 later sold his
0:10:26 podcast business
0:10:28 to SiriusXM
0:10:29 for $150
0:10:30 million, is
0:10:31 making more
0:10:32 money today than
0:10:33 he did in his
0:10:33 late-night
0:10:34 heyday.
0:10:36 The 150
0:10:37 people who
0:10:37 worked at
0:10:37 Late Night?
0:10:39 See above.
0:10:40 Real Estate
0:10:41 Agents
0:10:44 Even though his
0:10:44 audience has
0:10:45 dropped from a
0:10:46 peak of more
0:10:47 than 3.1
0:10:48 million viewers
0:10:49 in 2017 and
0:10:51 2018, Colbert
0:10:52 enjoys better
0:10:52 ratings than his
0:10:53 competitors, Jimmy
0:10:54 Kimmel and Jimmy
0:10:55 Fallon, registering
0:10:57 an average of 2.42
0:10:58 million viewers
0:11:00 during the three-month
0:11:01 period ending in
0:11:01 June.
0:11:03 That compared
0:11:03 compared with
0:11:04 1.77
0:11:05 million and
0:11:06 1.19
0:11:06 million for
0:11:07 Kimmel and
0:11:08 Fallon, respectively.
0:11:10 If Colbert
0:11:11 can’t hang
0:11:12 on, it
0:11:12 doesn’t bode
0:11:13 well for his
0:11:14 rivals or the
0:11:14 staff who
0:11:15 don’t make it
0:11:15 onto the
0:11:16 podcast arc
0:11:17 with their
0:11:17 boss.
0:11:20 Colbert,
0:11:21 Fallon, and
0:11:23 Kimmel shouldn’t
0:11:23 be worried.
0:11:25 They are caged
0:11:26 in a broken
0:11:27 business model,
0:11:27 and it’s only a
0:11:28 matter of time
0:11:28 before they break
0:11:29 free.
0:11:30 In his first
0:11:31 broadcast since
0:11:32 CBS pulled the
0:11:34 plug, Colbert
0:11:35 earlier this week
0:11:35 warned Trump
0:11:37 that the gloves
0:11:37 are off.
0:11:39 When his
0:11:40 contract ends
0:11:40 in 10 months,
0:11:42 the economic
0:11:42 shackles will
0:11:43 also come off.
0:11:45 Instead of
0:11:45 leading a $60
0:11:46 million business
0:11:47 with 200
0:11:48 staff, Colbert
0:11:49 will likely
0:11:50 helm a $20
0:11:51 million business
0:11:53 with 12
0:11:53 highly skilled
0:11:54 people.
0:11:55 These shows
0:11:56 might lack
0:11:57 the glitz and
0:11:57 glamour of
0:11:58 late night,
0:11:59 but that can
0:11:59 be an advantage.
0:12:00 as Colbert
0:12:01 demonstrated
0:12:01 during the
0:12:03 pandemic when
0:12:03 he delivered
0:12:04 monologues
0:12:04 at home
0:12:05 without a
0:12:05 live audience,
0:12:07 his wife,
0:12:08 Evie Colbert,
0:12:08 by his side.
0:12:10 More stars
0:12:11 will follow
0:12:12 Colbert into
0:12:12 the next
0:12:13 frontier after
0:12:14 he leaves
0:12:14 the late
0:12:15 night stage.
0:12:16 MSNBC’s
0:12:17 Rachel Maddow,
0:12:18 who’s already
0:12:19 reduced her
0:12:20 on-air
0:12:20 commitments to
0:12:22 pursue podcasts,
0:12:23 may not be
0:12:24 able to match
0:12:25 the $25 million
0:12:26 salary she
0:12:27 reportedly
0:12:28 negotiated at
0:12:28 the network,
0:12:30 but her
0:12:30 current
0:12:30 compensation
0:12:31 is
0:12:32 unsustainable,
0:12:33 and she
0:12:33 knows it.
0:12:36 When it
0:12:37 returned to
0:12:37 its traditional
0:12:38 format in
0:12:38 the Ed
0:12:38 Sullivan
0:12:39 Theater in
0:12:40 June 2021,
0:12:42 the late
0:12:42 show seemed
0:12:43 eager to
0:12:44 embrace the
0:12:44 old-school
0:12:45 model and
0:12:46 ditch everything
0:12:47 it learned
0:12:47 in lockdown.
0:12:49 But the
0:12:50 future looks
0:12:50 more like
0:12:51 Colbert at
0:12:52 his vacation
0:12:52 home in
0:12:53 South Carolina
0:12:53 than in front
0:12:54 of a live
0:12:55 audience with
0:12:55 a band,
0:12:56 Manhattan
0:12:57 Rent,
0:12:57 and union
0:12:58 workers.
0:13:00 It means
0:13:00 sharply lower
0:13:02 production costs
0:13:02 with a team
0:13:03 of 20,
0:13:04 not 200.
0:13:06 Call it the
0:13:07 old navy of
0:13:07 media,
0:13:09 80% of the
0:13:10 production quality
0:13:11 for a fifth
0:13:11 of the price.
0:13:13 The end is
0:13:14 nigh for
0:13:15 late-night TV,
0:13:17 but podcasts
0:13:18 delivering high-quality
0:13:19 and highly
0:13:20 profitable
0:13:21 entertainment
0:13:22 are just
0:13:23 warming up.
0:13:26 Colbert will
0:13:27 be just as
0:13:27 relevant,
0:13:28 and as much
0:13:29 a pain in
0:13:30 Trump’s ass,
0:13:30 he’ll just
0:13:31 do it via
0:13:32 a different
0:13:32 means of
0:13:33 production.
0:13:35 Podcasts
0:13:35 are TV,
0:13:37 but with an
0:13:37 audio-first
0:13:39 overlay and
0:13:39 better unit
0:13:40 economics.
0:13:42 Commending
0:13:43 the RAF
0:13:44 in 1940,
0:13:46 Winston
0:13:46 Churchill
0:13:47 said that
0:13:47 never,
0:13:48 quote,
0:13:49 was so
0:13:50 much owed
0:13:50 by so
0:13:51 many to
0:13:52 so few.
0:13:53 Unquote.
0:13:55 In cable
0:13:56 news and
0:13:57 late-night
0:13:57 television,
0:13:59 rarely have
0:14:00 so many
0:14:01 talented people
0:14:02 been less
0:14:03 relevant.
0:14:07 Life is so
0:14:07 rich.
0:14:19 in cable news and