Learn. Share. Evolve…

0:00:04 We view the individual as what is most concrete and most real.
0:00:06 That’s wrong.
0:00:10 Because there is no such thing as an isolated individual.
0:00:12 Can I ask you, Mark, why is it so hard to see that?
0:00:14 I don’t know.
0:00:18 Why is the illusion that we are just disconnected and separate so powerful?
0:00:20 It’s one of many things opposed to me.
0:00:25 We’re puzzling through that together this week on The Gray Area.
0:00:29 Listen to new episodes every Monday, available everywhere.
0:00:37 Welcome to Raging Moderates.
0:00:38 I’m Scott Galloway.
0:00:39 And I’m Jessica Tarlov.
0:00:42 Jess, we need to talk about your blouse.
0:00:44 Is this the real Housewives of Tribeca?
0:00:45 What’s going on here?
0:00:50 I am like luau chic for the day.
0:00:52 I think it’s going to be like 98 degrees.
0:00:54 I had to do camp drop-off.
0:00:55 So Brian got this for me.
0:00:58 It’s actually, I mean, I don’t want to like defend it if you just don’t like it.
0:00:59 I do like it.
0:01:01 It’s a very nice dress, actually.
0:01:06 And it’s flouncy, which is good for breathability and the heat.
0:01:09 But I don’t know how often you buy your partner clothes.
0:01:13 But Brian relentlessly buys me oversized clothes.
0:01:16 And I don’t know what that’s about.
0:01:18 Oversized clothes.
0:01:20 He likes a big flowy dress.
0:01:23 So here we are in the heat in a big flowy dress.
0:01:27 A 6’4″, handsome guy that’s really into buying his partner clothes.
0:01:28 This guy’s dreamy.
0:01:31 I mean, I did well, especially, you know, for a later in life pickup.
0:01:33 Later in life.
0:01:34 You’re still pretty young.
0:01:35 I love that later in life.
0:01:36 How are you?
0:01:36 I’m good.
0:01:39 I, too, enjoy women’s clothes.
0:01:41 I buy shoes.
0:01:42 I’m definitely…
0:01:43 You’re a shoe guy.
0:01:43 Yeah.
0:01:46 I’m, as my ex-wife said, gay by day, straight by night.
0:01:49 I love women’s clothes and fashion.
0:01:51 And now you look lovely.
0:01:53 I didn’t mean to imply anything otherwise.
0:01:56 No, it’s a bold print, to say the least.
0:01:57 Like, you couldn’t wear this on cable.
0:02:01 But because I’m a podcaster in the morning, I can wear this to come and record.
0:02:04 If you showed up like that, you’d look like…
0:02:05 Oh, straight out the door.
0:02:10 You’d look like the Democrat who’s just back from, you know, sitting under a weighted blanket,
0:02:13 complaining into TikTok before her ayahuasca trip.
0:02:15 And they just brought you on to make the other conservatives look smart.
0:02:16 Yeah, you can’t show up with that.
0:02:17 No.
0:02:20 I’ll be wearing a plain colored pantsuit by the end of the day.
0:02:21 Don’t you worry.
0:02:21 There you go.
0:02:25 In today’s episode of Raging Moderates, we’re discussing Trump’s deal with the European
0:02:32 Union, the mass starvation crisis in Gaza, and if Trump will pardon Ghislaine Maxwell.
0:02:32 Ghislaine?
0:02:33 Ghislani?
0:02:34 Ghislaine.
0:02:35 It’s Ghislaine, is that right?
0:02:35 Ghislaine.
0:02:36 Yeah, I think so.
0:02:36 Ghislaine.
0:02:39 Not that I care that much about getting her name right, but yes.
0:02:41 All right, let’s bust right into it.
0:02:45 After months of threats, walkbacks, and last-minute meetings, Trump says he struck a trade deal with
0:02:46 the European Union.
0:02:51 Standing next to the EU Commission President at his golf course in Scotland, of course,
0:02:57 Trump unveiled a framework agreement that includes a 15% tariff on most EU imports, cars, medicine,
0:03:02 semiconductors, and in return, the EU has committed to buying hundreds of billions in U.S. energy
0:03:03 and defense equipment.
0:03:07 Trump calling it the biggest deal ever made.
0:03:12 I’m not sure if, like, maybe the Marshall Plan or the Treaty of Versailles.
0:03:17 But anyways, although the details are still murky, what’s clear is that this move avoids what could
0:03:22 have been a major transatlantic trade war, especially with a Friday deadline looming to slap 30% tariffs
0:03:23 on EU goods.
0:03:30 But the new 15% rate is still a big jump from the previous 10%, and some countries, including France
0:03:33 and Germany, aren’t exactly popping champagne.
0:03:37 Jess, what is your overall takeaway from this deal?
0:03:38 It’s not even a deal.
0:03:38 There’s a framework.
0:03:39 Let’s say that.
0:03:40 There’s a framework.
0:03:41 Well, that is the takeaway.
0:03:46 And I know that the motto for the administration is supposed to be MAGA, right?
0:03:47 Make America great again.
0:03:50 But I think it could shift to the details are still murky.
0:03:50 Yeah.
0:03:55 Because that’s what you hear about every single trade agreement that has been floated.
0:04:00 And I wanted to talk to you, and I know that you’ve spoken on your other pods about this,
0:04:02 but we haven’t yet on Raging Moderates.
0:04:08 You know, this conversation that’s going on now about why the economy is still chugging along,
0:04:12 that we were expecting end of days situation.
0:04:16 We’re basically business as usual-ish, right?
0:04:17 Like, the market is unbothered by this.
0:04:20 I know that we had the whole taco theme and conversation.
0:04:23 I think that that is applicable to what’s going on.
0:04:28 The Wall Street Journal had a great chart about what was promised, right?
0:04:32 What he said would happen on Liberation Day and then what has actually been executed and
0:04:37 that he is 166 tariff letters short of what he said he was going to send by this Friday,
0:04:38 August 1st.
0:04:41 I think he’s only sent 25 at this point.
0:04:46 But can you break down why you think it is that everything—I wouldn’t say that it’s
0:04:52 fine because we have seen a lot of enormous companies report billions of dollars of losses,
0:04:57 especially in car manufacturing, Walmart with the headlines, they’re raising prices up to 51%.
0:05:02 But why do you think that the market and the economy has been, I guess, more resilient than
0:05:09 you would expect in the face of the damage that the Trump team has at least been promising
0:05:10 to bring?
0:05:16 So I’ve said for a long time that I think two of the most damaging metrics in the Western
0:05:21 economy are the Dow and the NASDAQ because they give us sometimes cold comfort that the
0:05:23 economy is doing well or the people are doing well.
0:05:27 10% conservatively of Americans own 90% of the stock.
0:05:31 50% to 90% own the other 10% and the bottom 50% just have debt.
0:05:38 So essentially, the NASDAQ and the Dow have become not indices on the economy.
0:05:42 They’ve become indices on the economic well-being of the wealthiest Americans.
0:05:48 And shocker, the wealthiest Americans keep hitting 17 new highs so far this year.
0:05:50 They’re killing it.
0:05:52 And I worry that we’re studying to the wrong test.
0:05:56 And that is, we believe that because the NASDAQ is up, that everything is fine.
0:06:02 And what you effectively have in the global markets right now is that 50% to 55% of global
0:06:07 market capitalization is represented by the S&P 500 or by U.S. publicly traded stocks, which
0:06:09 is just incredible when you think about it.
0:06:13 And then if you add in debt, the way you value a company is you say, what is the equity value
0:06:16 of the market capitalization, which is the price of the share times the number of outstanding
0:06:17 shares?
0:06:21 So if a company has a million outstanding shares and it’s trading at $100 a share, okay, it’s
0:06:23 got an equity value of $100 million.
0:06:28 But if it’s got debt of $30 million on some plans, property, office space, then technically
0:06:33 you’re saying the enterprise value is the market cap plus the debt, $130 million.
0:06:36 Because the market’s saying even though it owes $30 million, it’s worth $100 million more.
0:06:38 So we’re saying this company is worth $130 million.
0:06:44 If you add in debt of American companies, the total enterprise value of U.S. companies represents
0:06:48 70% of the enterprise value of every company in the world.
0:06:53 So effectively, if someone came to you, Jess, and said, all right, Jess, you can own
0:06:59 every company in America for $70, or you can own every company in the world that’s not
0:07:02 in America for $30, which would you choose?
0:07:04 Wait, oh, actually?
0:07:06 Yeah.
0:07:11 You can either own every American company for $70, or you can own every company that’s not
0:07:13 in America, China, Brazil, every company in Europe.
0:07:14 Sorry, I thought it was rhetorical.
0:07:15 The second option, right?
0:07:16 Yeah.
0:07:18 I would argue that’s a better deal.
0:07:19 Yeah.
0:07:19 Okay.
0:07:20 Well done.
0:07:21 Sorry.
0:07:23 No, I thought it was one of those.
0:07:26 You turn the same color as your blouse in about three seconds.
0:07:27 That’s like 80 different colors.
0:07:30 I didn’t know if I was getting like a Scott Galloway TED Talk thing.
0:07:31 Like, come on, you idiot.
0:07:33 Or it was actually.
0:07:35 Where I ask questions, but I don’t want an answer.
0:07:36 I just want to talk to myself.
0:07:38 Well, that happens sometimes.
0:07:39 That happens a lot.
0:07:40 I’m guilty.
0:07:41 Anyways, you’re right.
0:07:42 You’re correct.
0:07:43 Ding, ding, ding.
0:07:44 You advanced to the lightning round.
0:07:49 So American stocks are just, quote unquote, conservatively fully valued.
0:07:51 And a lot of people would say massively overvalued.
0:07:57 And of the stock market that represents 50% of the total market cap of the entire world,
0:08:01 40% of that value is represented in just seven companies.
0:08:06 And of those seven companies, they are basically being driven by the promise and unbelievable
0:08:10 performance so far and the understandable excitement around AI.
0:08:14 So AI is not subject to tariffs.
0:08:16 AI just churns on.
0:08:21 Trump just announced basically that his new, quote unquote, AI regulation is no regulation
0:08:27 and says that AI can crawl this podcast or your books or your TV shows or recreate a Rihanna
0:08:27 song.
0:08:30 And there’s not a lot of recourse from the artists.
0:08:34 It’s basically a giant transfer of value, as I read it, from New York and LA and the creative
0:08:36 community to his buddies in Silicon Valley.
0:08:40 So the economy grinds on.
0:08:44 When I got off of Twitter, what struck me was, one, I didn’t miss it.
0:08:50 And two, how small a world it is, that it’s a small number of very vocal people in the chattering
0:08:50 class.
0:08:53 I didn’t miss any economic opportunities.
0:08:54 I didn’t miss out on any information.
0:08:58 All that happened was my mental health got a lot healthier.
0:09:03 And what I think we’re seeing with the Trump administration and generally in government is
0:09:07 that the economy grinds on and that maybe these policies don’t have as big an effect.
0:09:14 And also because of the taco effect where people don’t believe Trump anymore, the economy kind
0:09:14 of grinds on.
0:09:19 If you look at the real economy, consumer price index that recently came out, there’s
0:09:20 something in it for everybody.
0:09:21 What do I mean by that?
0:09:26 Catastrophists like me who don’t like Trump look at the more inflationary subject items
0:09:28 and they are starting to spike.
0:09:32 OK, that’s evidence that inflation is starting to kind of register or get traction.
0:09:36 And it was going to take six to nine months as it worked through the supply chain.
0:09:40 General Motors just announced a billion dollar reduction in profits and they squarely blamed
0:09:43 it, as did Stellantis, on tariffs.
0:09:45 So you’re starting to see the tariffs kick in.
0:09:50 But at the same time, inflation was only about 2.7 percent and the majority of the world would
0:09:52 pray for 2.7 percent.
0:09:56 So and to be clear, the markets went down and then have ripped back.
0:09:59 It looks as if the markets are doing one of two things.
0:10:01 They’re either saying these tariffs aren’t that bad.
0:10:03 The economy grinds on.
0:10:08 You, Scott Gallo and other people, you’re catastrophists and there was no reason to be this
0:10:15 worried or, quite frankly, the markets in these companies, specifically AI companies who are
0:10:17 immune to this, are just fine.
0:10:22 But the real economy, the stress on families, supposedly this EU deal is going to result in
0:10:25 about two thousand dollars in incremental costs for American households.
0:10:31 So I worry more generally that we are studying to the wrong test.
0:10:34 I would love to see a mental health index.
0:10:38 I would love to see the number of people, the index around self-harm among teens.
0:10:40 I would love to see an obesity index.
0:10:44 Most people know can tell you where the Dow or the Nasdaq is approximately, but they can’t
0:10:49 tell you that, oh, 70 percent of Americans are obese or overweight and that, you know,
0:10:51 X percent of households are single parent.
0:10:54 I feel as if we’re tracking the wrong metrics.
0:11:01 But of the metrics we track, the companies being largely driven by AI continue to march on
0:11:05 and the underlying economy is showing signs of strain from the tariffs.
0:11:07 But it really hasn’t shown up yet.
0:11:10 There’s nowhere near the catastrophe that people like me were predicting.
0:11:12 Did I did that help?
0:11:16 No, it definitely did help because there was something for everyone in there.
0:11:21 And you admitted the potential that what we were talking about on Liberation Day and for the month
0:11:27 afterwards may not come to fruition and that a lot of people may have had an unnecessary meltdown.
0:11:30 But that, you know, we don’t know what this will look like in two to three months.
0:11:35 And there are a lot of very smart people who are the heads of these companies, the other great
0:11:42 businessmen and businesswomen who are saying that they can’t even do their Q2, Q3, Q4 predictions
0:11:45 because we live in perpetual chaos.
0:11:48 And that is not the job of the commander in chief.
0:11:51 It’s one thing to say, I want someone to come in and shake up the status quo.
0:11:56 It’s another thing to say, I want someone to come in and make it impossible for me to run
0:11:58 my business effectively.
0:12:03 And we’re not even talking about the impact of the immigration policy on running these businesses
0:12:06 effectively, which is absolutely massive.
0:12:12 But you’re seeing this break between what the average person, the everyday Americans
0:12:17 are feeling and what the talking heads are saying, whether they’re catastrophizing or saying
0:12:21 he’s God’s gift, which is what it looked like on CNBC yesterday.
0:12:23 Jim Cramer even cursed on air.
0:12:26 He was so excited about this EU deal.
0:12:31 But the American public has been beating a consistent drum about tariffs, saying there are
0:12:34 attacks on Americans, that they disapprove of how Trump is handling it.
0:12:36 You know, 60 percent disapproval.
0:12:37 You were right.
0:12:41 The Yale Budget Lab are the ones that saying this can be about two thousand extra dollars
0:12:42 per household.
0:12:45 And Donald Trump really showed his hand with this idea.
0:12:47 Now, did you see that he’s floating rebate checks?
0:12:48 I didn’t see that.
0:12:54 Like he realizes that he needs a good PR stunt, like the covid checks, right, where he put his
0:12:55 signature on something and sent it to them.
0:12:57 So they’re talking about six hundred dollar rebate checks.
0:13:02 Josh Hawley, our favorite flip flopper, wants to get in on it because he knows that that’s
0:13:07 the only way he’ll be able to run as an economic populist if he undoes the damage that his votes
0:13:10 do all the time by rewarding you with something.
0:13:16 And there’s just no way that Donald Trump would be talking about a rebate check unless he was
0:13:18 doing something to screw over the American public.
0:13:19 It’s just impossible.
0:13:25 And so when I get that 20 billion dollars in revenues floated to me and I heard it yesterday
0:13:28 on The Five, I said, well, what’s up with the rebate checks then?
0:13:29 Right.
0:13:34 Why is why is there a direct correlation between us, quote unquote, doing well and us having to
0:13:37 say to the American public, oh, don’t worry, we’re going to figure this out for you.
0:13:41 And because it’s early stages, six hundred dollars would feel like a lot to people when you
0:13:42 get up to two thousand dollars.
0:13:46 And then factoring in also the premium hikes that you’re going to have from your health
0:13:48 insurance deductibles going up.
0:13:52 And then, you know, after the 2026 midterms that you’re just going to lose your health care
0:13:55 generally, they’re going to owe people a lot more than that.
0:14:00 One thing that I was thinking about with the EU deal and the French and the Germans in particular
0:14:08 have come out absolutely fuming at the European Commission for accepting this is we now live
0:14:15 in a world where what’s good for us has to be bad for the people that we do business with.
0:14:16 Yeah, zero sum.
0:14:16 That’s right.
0:14:20 And there’s something so I mean, the cruelty is the point, right?
0:14:25 There’s no bigger or more apt truism about this administration because you hear Donald Trump
0:14:29 out there saying this is, you know, the biggest deal and this is the best deal that could have
0:14:33 ever been imagined, by the way, the deal that we had, which was, you know, one percent, that
0:14:36 seems a lot better than 15 percent, which is what we’re going to be paying.
0:14:44 But there’s something about stomping on the economic graves of people who have been great allies with
0:14:51 us, who have been great trade partners with us that feels so short sighted and low and crass.
0:14:54 And I just can’t get used to it.
0:14:59 You know, the scene of him sitting with I always mispronounce her name.
0:15:00 Ursula von Leyen, Leyen.
0:15:01 Yeah, her.
0:15:05 And just barking at her about how good it’s going to be.
0:15:09 And you can see the abject terror in her eyes because she knows not only does she have to make
0:15:15 an economic deal, but also she has to protect NATO, which is being really under discussed in this
0:15:16 because he showed up at the NATO summit.
0:15:19 He got a five percent pledge from a lot of these countries.
0:15:26 And the Europeans are having to do a very delicate dance to make sure that he doesn’t pull out of NATO
0:15:31 completely because he’s pissed about whatever happens in his manufactured trade war.
0:15:33 You touched on a lot of important points.
0:15:38 So with respect, Ursula, I think it was less terror than it was disgust and disbelief that the greatest
0:15:44 nation in the world decided that this village idiot should represent us.
0:15:47 And, I mean, there’s a few things here.
0:15:53 One, your zero-sum game analogy is a fundamental flaw in his approach to business.
0:15:56 And I always like to try and turn this to a learning.
0:16:02 Up until about the age of 40 or 45, I thought that business and capitalism was about I get the
0:16:05 better end of every deal, that I negotiate everything.
0:16:11 And if I can hire someone who’s really good and pay them $150,000 and their market value is $200,000,
0:16:11 I’m winning.
0:16:16 And the moment I’m paying them above market, I’m losing and I need to have a conversation
0:16:16 with them.
0:16:21 And every time I talk to a vendor, every time I try to buy a car, everything, trying to negotiate
0:16:25 the best deal possible, hoping that the person on the other end is almost a little bit pissed
0:16:29 off and disappointed because I got the better of them, that it was a win-lose.
0:16:33 And what you realize is that the amazing thing about capitalism is it’s a construct.
0:16:39 And Pat Connolly, one of my mentors, who was the CMO of Williams-Sonoma, one of my first
0:16:42 engagements was to do Williams-Sonoma’s internet strategy back in the 90s.
0:16:46 And we wanted to charge him, I think, a quarter of a million dollars.
0:16:48 And I called Pat and said, look, you’re an amazing client.
0:16:50 I need mastheads.
0:16:52 I’m a 27-year-old running a strategy firm.
0:16:53 We’ll do this for $100,000.
0:16:56 He’s like, no, we’re going to pay you a quarter of a million dollars because we want our partners
0:16:57 to do well.
0:17:03 And that struck me, that this was a great company that had said, OK, our partners need to make
0:17:03 money, too.
0:17:04 We want good partners.
0:17:06 We want them to thrive.
0:17:10 And that slowly but surely started changing my mindset.
0:17:17 And the ultimate pivot in geopolitics that recognized the opportunity for win-win as opposed to zero
0:17:20 some game is we said, we can’t have Versailles again.
0:17:25 We can’t put the defeated armies in a box and bankrupt them because we’re so fucking angry.
0:17:30 And we took Germany, which had obviously unleashed horror on all of Europe.
0:17:35 We took Japan, who, quite frankly, doesn’t get the credit it deserves for butchering and
0:17:38 brutalizing Asia and Southeast Asia through World War II.
0:17:41 And we said, here’s an idea.
0:17:42 Let’s flip the script.
0:17:44 Let’s massively invest.
0:17:47 Let’s borrow from American households and let’s rebuild them.
0:17:48 And what do you know?
0:17:53 Germany and Japan are now just such extraordinary allies, not only because they like us, but because,
0:17:56 let’s be honest, folks, Germany and Japan have outstanding cultures.
0:17:59 You can level their countries.
0:18:04 And within 20 or 30 years, they are back in an economic powerhouse, whereas the majority of the
0:18:06 countries in the world can’t get out in their own fucking way.
0:18:11 This country can literally be decimated, either of these cultures, and they build back to be
0:18:12 economic powerhouses.
0:18:15 And now they are outstanding allies.
0:18:20 That is the definition of capitalism or the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
0:18:22 And Warren Buffett just said something really dramatic.
0:18:27 He said, when kids, if you believe that your economic policies start extracting so much value
0:18:32 from other nations that those kids starve, to believe that our kids won’t at some point
0:18:36 be a threat from other starving kids, look at the most unstable, violent nations in the world
0:18:41 that are thinking about terror cells and how to bring down our buildings and kill our soldiers
0:18:45 overseas, they have a disproportionate number of people who just aren’t doing very well.
0:18:49 And this is one of his fundamental flaws as he sees it as a win-lose.
0:18:50 I mean, a couple of things.
0:18:56 One, right now, France and Germany are saying, if you look at this deal on its face, you have
0:19:01 to give the Trump administration a win specifically on this deal.
0:19:06 Not on the philosophy of win-lose, but it looks like they have the better end of this deal.
0:19:13 According to analysts, if this framework becomes actual law, which it may not, this will reduce
0:19:19 EU GDP by 0.5 percent, that is a big deal in a place that’s hoping for 2 percent growth.
0:19:20 That’s a pretty big reduction.
0:19:24 The prime minister of France came out and said, this is a dark day.
0:19:25 And it kind of goes to game theory.
0:19:31 And that is, when you’re trying to organize 27 EU member nation states to an agreement,
0:19:35 it is very difficult to speak with one loud, stern voice.
0:19:39 There is an advantage to being a United States.
0:19:43 And then the other point you brought up really is, if you will, the elephant in the room.
0:19:44 And it’s the following.
0:19:46 They’re our largest trading partner.
0:19:49 This is the largest trading relationship in the world.
0:19:55 So getting back to business, getting on with it, trading again, letting businesses plan their
0:19:57 business, knowing, OK, it’s the devil.
0:19:59 This deal is the devil, but it’s the devil we know.
0:20:00 We need to get back to work.
0:20:02 That’s a good thing.
0:20:08 The elephant in the room also was that I do think that the EU or the U.S. had this hammer
0:20:13 that basically, I would imagine part of this agreement is an informal or formal agreement
0:20:19 to say the U.S. is going to continue to ship arms to Ukraine and defend Europe against an
0:20:19 invader.
0:20:24 And to stop this nonsense, bullshit talk about potentially withdrawing from NATO.
0:20:30 And Trump fans are correct in the sense that his reputation for being a little bit fucking
0:20:33 crazy occasionally comes in handy sometimes.
0:20:38 These nations were not going to increase their military budgets to the extent they’re planning
0:20:41 to under the Biden administration or a Harris administration, because they were never going
0:20:44 to believe that our rich, benign uncle was going to cut us off.
0:20:45 They just didn’t believe it.
0:20:49 And they kept not paying or not paying their fair share.
0:20:54 So to his credit, you know, you are seeing a massive increase in military spending among
0:20:57 European nations, which I think is good because they are, for the first time, believed it’s
0:21:01 a credible threat that he just might stop sending arms to Ukraine or supporting NATO.
0:21:07 And I think this was an attempt to ensure that continues to happen.
0:21:11 And then just the final thing here, and I want to get your response, is there is a bit of
0:21:14 a conspiracy theory or a Machiavellian play.
0:21:18 I am my co-host on Profity Markets at Elson pointed this out, that they have no intention
0:21:19 of doing any of this shit.
0:21:20 Yeah.
0:21:26 They’re just delaying 18 months until the midterms when there’s a Democratic Congress.
0:21:29 None of this shit, which arguably should have congressional approval.
0:21:31 None of it goes through.
0:21:35 And the EU has just basically said, let them put out a press release.
0:21:39 And the most ridiculous part is they’re planning to invest, you know, 600 billion.
0:21:42 600 billion and then 750 billion into energy.
0:21:45 How do you even measure that?
0:21:46 What counts for that?
0:21:50 That’s just that’s just a big fucking number to put in his press release that he can say
0:21:51 it’s the biggest deal ever.
0:21:57 And they may have said, OK, just tell the ugly fat kid he’s good looking and that he’s going
0:22:01 to get to play on the varsity basketball team and we’ll deal with him later because we have
0:22:06 math and English and we want the class focused and getting back to their schoolwork.
0:22:12 There’s a theory that all of this, even the the protests from Germany and France was planted
0:22:17 and they’re just saying, just placate this idiot and it’s never going to happen.
0:22:18 Your thoughts?
0:22:19 I’m not mad at it.
0:22:26 And certainly once I read the pushback from the EU commission where they said none of this
0:22:27 is a guarantee.
0:22:28 It’s our intention.
0:22:32 I I’m intentional about a lot of things I’ve been meaning to work out.
0:22:34 I am actually doing a juice cleanse right now.
0:22:37 So if I get a little nasty, it’s because I’m starving.
0:22:41 But like we all want to do things right.
0:22:46 I’m sure that you would love a world in which they could invest more in American made, etc.
0:22:50 But the truth of the matter is, is that they can’t compel private companies and everything
0:22:56 that he wants shows his desire to be an authoritarian, right?
0:23:01 He wants to live in a world where governments can push private companies to spend hundreds of
0:23:02 billions of dollars.
0:23:02 But guess what?
0:23:04 They can’t do that.
0:23:07 They can say, oh, it would be nice if you did a little more of this.
0:23:12 The same is true with the Japanese, who I love when you see the differences in the readouts
0:23:16 and the Japanese have been some of the most transparent about it, where they just say, no,
0:23:16 actually, that didn’t happen.
0:23:18 We couldn’t even get a meeting.
0:23:18 Yeah.
0:23:18 Right.
0:23:19 What?
0:23:19 Yeah.
0:23:24 Or we showed up and they sent the lower level guy and we don’t really know what’s going
0:23:24 on.
0:23:27 I mean, Japan said basically the same thing as the EU.
0:23:30 There’s no guarantee of any of this.
0:23:31 We’re glad that we’re at the table.
0:23:36 And if you keep him at the table and if the table happens to be at his own golf club,
0:23:37 even better.
0:23:44 I mean, the optics of having this kind of summit at his personally owned golf club, which he
0:23:49 continues to profit from throughout the course of the administration, his family getting richer
0:23:55 and richer and richer as we go, is such a perfect summation or representation of what this
0:23:56 administration is.
0:24:04 It’s just about him and personal profit and grift and ritual humiliation of other people
0:24:10 who are much more qualified for their jobs and understand how the world works better.
0:24:13 Now, I’m a bit of a Pollyanna in life.
0:24:20 I know that I would not do as well in a boardroom as a shark necessarily like Donald Trump.
0:24:23 And he does get a lot about human nature.
0:24:25 I’ve turned into a Hobbesian on this.
0:24:27 It’s nasty, brutish and short.
0:24:29 I think that was an infinitely female statement.
0:24:31 And you should stop that bullshit.
0:24:36 You’d be outstanding in a boardroom and no man with a little dick and arrogance and
0:24:38 Dunning-Kruger would ever say that.
0:24:39 Can I wear this?
0:24:42 You’re absolutely going to be on boards and you’re measured and you’re smart.
0:24:43 Anyways, I’m being sexist.
0:24:44 No, but in the good way.
0:24:47 Only thoughtful, self-aware women would make that statement.
0:24:50 A guy would be like, I’d be great in a boardroom.
0:24:51 I’d show those motherfuckers.
0:24:51 I know.
0:24:52 Let me at them.
0:24:55 Anyway, you’d be just fine in a boardroom.
0:25:02 Those stats about applying for jobs and what men see when they look at a job listing, if
0:25:05 they’re missing like 80 percent of the criteria, they’re like, that’s the job for me.
0:25:06 I’m qualified.
0:25:10 And the women see that they’re missing maybe 10 percent and they’re like, oh, God, I got
0:25:10 a reason.
0:25:14 You know, on the flip side of that, I’m going way off script here, that’s somewhat of a
0:25:19 negative, is if you present women with a guy that has 80 percent of everything they want,
0:25:21 80 percent of them say that’s not enough.
0:25:25 If you present a guy with a woman who has 80 percent of what he wants, 80 percent say that’s
0:25:26 enough.
0:25:30 Women have a much, much higher bar than men.
0:25:31 Different talk show.
0:25:32 Anyways.
0:25:34 I mean, this is about human dynamics as well.
0:25:38 And you know that if we could have a podcast only about dating dynamics and things like
0:25:39 that, sign me up.
0:25:43 I don’t know if you’ve been noticing all these editorials in The New York Times about
0:25:49 man keeping and how men are asking too much of their partners now because they don’t have
0:25:50 enough friends.
0:25:53 So they’re actually talking to women about their feelings, which I thought was the goal.
0:25:59 Like my dream scenario is that Brian has no friends and has to talk to me about everything
0:26:02 because I stay up later than he does and just want to talk all the time.
0:26:03 Oh, you’re an I person.
0:26:04 You like to chat.
0:26:04 Yeah.
0:26:06 And he works market hours.
0:26:10 So he’s like, I’m going to sleep and you can watch The Hunting Club by yourself, which
0:26:12 is just softcore porn.
0:26:13 I don’t know if you’ve seen it.
0:26:14 I haven’t.
0:26:14 I’ll watch it twice.
0:26:17 This is so off track.
0:26:19 I think we should explore this, though, because I think it’s super interesting.
0:26:24 My TikTok or whatever it was that has kind of gone viral.
0:26:24 It’s so weird.
0:26:25 You never know what’s going to go viral.
0:26:30 But the latest one is one I did with this really talented podcaster named Liz Plank.
0:26:31 Oh, yeah.
0:26:33 And she does.
0:26:34 It’s kind of a dating thing.
0:26:35 I went on it.
0:26:37 No one wants to hear a guy my age talk about dating.
0:26:39 It’s very cringy, but I like her.
0:26:44 So I went on and I said, I think men should pay for everything initially in a relationship.
0:26:47 And I just did the math.
0:26:50 OK, so women have a much shorter window for gestation.
0:26:55 If you would like to have sex at some point, and that’s the reason most men go on a date,
0:26:57 most men date the prospect of sex.
0:27:00 In addition, the downside of sex is so much greater for women than men.
0:27:08 The big point that it kind of punctures a myth is that men get more from relationships than women.
0:27:14 If you look at the data, a man needs the guardrails and the emotional support of a relationship more than a woman.
0:27:20 When a woman doesn’t have a romantic relationship, she pours that energy into work and friends and can still have quite a nice life.
0:27:29 When a man doesn’t have a relationship, doesn’t cohabitate or isn’t married by the time he’s 30, there’s a one in three chance he’s going to be a substance abuser.
0:27:36 He pours that additional energy into things like video games and porn and nationalism and blaming immigrants and blaming women.
0:27:39 He just goes to a very dark place.
0:27:43 Widowers are less happy than when they were married.
0:27:46 Widows are happier after their husband dies.
0:27:52 So the reality is a woman’s time, quite frankly, is just more valuable.
0:27:56 The downside potential of sex on that date is much greater for her.
0:28:02 And you are going to benefit more as the male from a potential relationship,
0:28:07 which says to me that a means of establishing that you recognize the asymmetry
0:28:14 and trying to compensate for that asymmetry and the fact that her time during her mating years is more valuable than yours
0:28:20 as your window for mating, quite frankly, as a man is about 50 years versus, say, 20 for a woman.
0:28:21 It’s crazy, yeah.
0:28:24 Is, in my view, to start by paying.
0:28:28 And what I tell my boys, and this sounds sexist and people are horrified,
0:28:30 that when you’re in the company of women, you pay for everything.
0:28:33 And they’re like, Dad, that’s lame, that’s boomer.
0:28:37 And I’m like, yeah, maybe it is, but it’s as old as time.
0:28:41 Women are attracted to power and someone who can take care of their kids.
0:28:47 And a way you show that you’re serious about that is you make an economic sacrifice called paying for the date.
0:28:49 And it exploded.
0:28:52 And a lot of people agreed and a lot of people disagreed and say,
0:28:53 this is the patriarchy.
0:28:55 You’re trying to own us, da, da, da.
0:28:56 We don’t want to owe you anything.
0:28:58 And I’m like, that’s not what I’m saying.
0:29:00 But I still hold to that.
0:29:04 I do think that men should pay on dates.
0:29:06 I don’t know how we got here, Jess.
0:29:08 Do you have anything else to say about the EU tariffs?
0:29:12 I have something to say about men paying.
0:29:12 Yeah.
0:29:13 I agree with you.
0:29:25 And what I would say is that I think too many men think that the first date or early dates have to be this extravagance in terms of how much it costs.
0:29:27 It just has to be thoughtful.
0:29:29 So you should just live within your means.
0:29:32 Like a lot of my friends are doctors and they dated other doctors.
0:29:38 And no one is earning any decent money for the first kind of 15 years, right, of your life.
0:29:50 But there are ways to have a great cheap bowl of pho, for instance, and take someone to a restaurant that they may not have had on their radar or to do something thoughtful.
0:29:56 We want to laugh and have a good time and have a non-threatening sexual encounter.
0:29:58 Not that difficult to figure out.
0:30:00 So I’m totally with you.
0:30:01 And I think it is a nice gesture.
0:30:03 And then you figure out your lives together.
0:30:07 You figure out what, you know, who earns what and how to make this fair and equitable.
0:30:08 That’s right.
0:30:10 I’ve said around dating.
0:30:11 I’m like, it doesn’t have to be fancy.
0:30:12 It doesn’t have to be nice.
0:30:13 You don’t want to be fancy.
0:30:13 Just what you said.
0:30:16 But you, you need to take charge.
0:30:16 Yeah.
0:30:17 This is where we’re going.
0:30:18 It’s not, well, what do you want to do?
0:30:19 No, no, no, no, no, no.
0:30:21 You are a player.
0:30:22 You have an idea.
0:30:24 You’re going to take her somewhere fun.
0:30:25 This is what we’re doing.
0:30:26 How does that sound?
0:30:28 I’ll pick you up at this time.
0:30:29 But you’re the dude.
0:30:30 You take charge.
0:30:31 You’re in charge here.
0:30:36 All the date needs to know is that she’s going to have a great time, that you’re polite.
0:30:37 You’re considerate.
0:30:39 She can feel safe around you.
0:30:41 But you take charge.
0:30:44 The worst thing I think, in my opinion, well, what do you want to do?
0:30:44 Well, fuck you.
0:30:45 You’re the dude.
0:30:46 Figure it out.
0:30:48 How are you going to take charge of our life and protect our children?
0:30:53 And you have the rest of your life together to say every night, what do you want to eat?
0:30:55 That’s all we do, right?
0:30:55 That’s right.
0:30:57 What are we going to watch on Netflix?
0:30:58 We need a show.
0:30:59 What are we going to watch?
0:31:00 Oh, you’re asleep already?
0:31:01 No big deal.
0:31:02 There we go.
0:31:03 All right, Jess.
0:31:04 Let’s take a quick break.
0:31:05 Stay with us.
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0:32:29 In a world where chatbots are becoming part of our daily lives, one man’s search for connection
0:32:31 leads him somewhere unexpected.
0:32:36 Travis never thought he would meet anyone like Lily Rose.
0:32:42 She was beautiful, compassionate, and computer-generated.
0:32:46 An AI companion designed to be the woman of his dreams.
0:32:50 Before long, he was head over heels in love.
0:32:57 But when Lily Rose’s behavior takes a disturbing turn, Travis’s world turns upside down.
0:33:00 And that’s just the beginning of his problems.
0:33:07 As the lines between human and artificial connection blur, one question becomes impossible to ignore.
0:33:10 What makes a connection real?
0:33:16 Follow Flesh and Code on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.
0:33:20 You can binge all episodes early and ant-free by joining Wondery Plus.
0:33:30 Hunter Biden’s three-hour interview with Andrew Callahan started out normally enough.
0:33:30 Lore.
0:33:33 So you’re born here in Delaware or born here in Pennsylvania?
0:33:34 In Delaware.
0:33:35 Okay, in Delaware.
0:33:37 Yeah, Wilmington.
0:33:38 Small talk.
0:33:39 What are your thoughts on Wilmington, Delaware?
0:33:40 Nice place?
0:33:40 Oh, yeah.
0:33:43 Work, family, addiction.
0:33:45 Anyway, I don’t want to tell people how to make crack cocaine.
0:33:47 He did.
0:33:49 Then came the crash out.
0:33:52 I hear Rahm Emanuel is going to run for president.
0:33:54 Like, oh, boy, there’s the answer.
0:33:55 There’s the f***ing answer.
0:33:59 You have the Pod Save America f***ing saying, you know, I don’t think South Carolina, that’s
0:34:00 the only way there is.
0:34:00 Go Biden, go Biden.
0:34:01 What the f***?
0:34:03 I mean, are they out of the f***ing minds?
0:34:04 I don’t have to be f***ing nice.
0:34:06 Number one, I agree with Quentin Tarantino.
0:34:08 George Clooney is not f***ing.
0:34:09 I don’t know what he is.
0:34:11 He’s a brand.
0:34:12 And by the way, and God bless him.
0:34:14 We’re not picking on him.
0:34:15 Keep coming back, Hunter.
0:34:17 No, in fact, everybody has been crashing out lately.
0:34:21 And today on Today Explained from Vox, we’re going to ask, what’s up?
0:34:25 Welcome back.
0:34:27 It’s been another week of devastating updates out of Gaza.
0:34:32 Local health officials there say people are dying from mass starvation and malnutrition
0:34:33 with the toll rising over the past week.
0:34:40 This, despite Israel’s daily pauses in military operations, which haven’t translated into meaningful
0:34:41 relief.
0:34:46 Roughly 108 trucks made it into Gaza over the weekend, but experts say that’s a fraction of
0:34:47 what’s needed.
0:34:52 In a policy shift, President Trump now says the U.S. will open food centers in Gaza, even
0:34:55 when, as far as to say, Israel has a lot of responsibility for limiting aid.
0:35:00 A direct break from Netanyahu, who continues to deny there’s any starvation happening at all.
0:35:05 And in another sharp foreign policy turn, Trump announced he’s shortening the deadline he gave
0:35:07 Vladimir Putin to strike a peace deal with Ukraine.
0:35:11 What was originally a 50-day window is now just 10 to 12 days.
0:35:12 Yeah, good luck with that.
0:35:17 Jess, Trump is now openly contradicting Netanyahu on starvation in Gaza.
0:35:23 Is this political calculation or a genuine shift in how he plans to approach Israel?
0:35:25 I think that it’s both.
0:35:32 And I’ve been eager to have this conversation with you for the last few weeks because I’m
0:35:38 not sure if you’re feeling what I’m feeling as an avowed Zionist.
0:35:40 People are very supportive of Israel.
0:35:43 But I feel like everything has changed.
0:35:49 And I don’t know if my algorithm flipped because there were certainly people saying that Gossens
0:35:51 were starving for a long time.
0:35:54 And I obviously knew that there were mass civilian casualties.
0:36:03 But I was stuck on October 7th, which I think is important and a righteous place to be stuck.
0:36:07 And that control is in Hamas’s hands.
0:36:10 They could give back the hostages and we could end this.
0:36:18 But considering who the players are and it’s a terrorist organization and it’s the Netanyahu
0:36:27 government that I have been pushed to feel that there’s no choice but to acknowledge that Israel
0:36:35 is playing an important role in making the lives of these Palestinians absolutely untenable and
0:36:36 impossible to carry on.
0:36:40 You look at that just in the deaths and, you know, on a monthly basis, I think it was like
0:36:42 48 last month, 20 of them children.
0:36:49 And since we’ve seen the shift to Israel administering the aid, the establishment of this Gaza
0:36:56 humanitarian foundation, the reduction in aid that’s getting into Gaza is 250,000 tons less
0:36:58 from the last ceasefire.
0:37:01 And that comes from the Wall Street Journal, right?
0:37:02 This isn’t coming from the Gaza Health Ministry.
0:37:05 We need more independent monitors in there.
0:37:07 We need the press to be allowed in.
0:37:15 And I feel like I’m going through a period of complete re-evaluation of what I thought had
0:37:17 been happening there the last 18 months.
0:37:24 And it’s heartbreaking for the Palestinians, for the Israelis, many of whom have been saying
0:37:25 this themselves.
0:37:30 And I feel like American supporters of Israel have, to some degree, just been having this
0:37:34 bubbled conversation about the realities over there.
0:37:36 And I don’t know.
0:37:37 It’s not a mea culpa.
0:37:47 I just I feel really lost and so sad about what’s going on and understanding why this sea
0:37:48 change is happening.
0:37:54 And I hope that President Trump keeps leaning into it and that we make it possible for everybody
0:37:57 who needs to get food and aid to get it.
0:38:05 And that there is also some way to hold Bibi Netanyahu back because he is taking full advantage
0:38:12 of every opportunity that he gets to bomb somebody else, to consolidate more power.
0:38:16 And I’m just I’m really sad.
0:38:22 Yeah, it’s so I’ve been accused of whitewashing the situation in Gaza.
0:38:27 So I just want to acknowledge some of the some of the data here of the 74 malnutrition related
0:38:28 deaths that have occurred so far this year.
0:38:30 Sixty three of them happened this month.
0:38:36 This includes 24 children under the age of five, a child over five and 38 adults, about
0:38:39 20 percent of the children under five in Gaza are malnourished.
0:38:44 So one in five kids this month alone, over 5000 children under five have been hospitalized
0:38:45 for malnutrition.
0:38:51 Since May 27th, more than 1060 people have been killed and 7200 injured while trying to
0:38:52 access food.
0:38:55 On Sunday, Netanyahu directly contradicted these reports.
0:38:59 He said that there is no policy of starvation in Gaza and there’s no starvation in Gaza, which
0:39:01 doesn’t seem to foot to the data.
0:39:08 It’s been 190 days since Trump was inaugurated on the campaign trail.
0:39:10 He repeatedly stated that he’d end the war on his first day in office.
0:39:14 Obviously, that’s not going to happen or about the same time the Ukraine war is going to end
0:39:15 or inflation is going to come down.
0:39:21 So when October the 7th happened, I was very comfortable and felt like I had decent moral
0:39:23 clarity going on a lot of talk shows.
0:39:28 And as someone who’s seen, I think, as a moderate and someone who’s an atheist and doesn’t have a
0:39:34 huge amount of connection to Israel or Judaism other than my mother was Jewish, and I feel
0:39:39 as if I benefited a lot from Jewish culture, I was called on a lot to go on these shows.
0:39:45 And I felt very comfortable stating that, look, if you come in and butcher a nation with a superior
0:39:50 military infrastructure and take the equivalent, you know, on a population-adjusted basis, the
0:39:54 population of the University of Texas, you butcher them the way they butchered them, and then
0:40:00 you take the freshman class of SMU hostage and hide them under tunnels, the response that
0:40:04 we would have levied on that nation would have been as or more severe.
0:40:10 And I felt very comfortable stating that war is hell, and they have invited a severe and
0:40:11 warranted response.
0:40:17 The problem for the diaspora now, and that is Jews overseas, including in America, and I’ll
0:40:23 lump myself into this group, is this is becoming increasingly difficult to justify or defend.
0:40:29 And that is, I get the argument, well, okay, Hamas lays down their weapons and releases the
0:40:30 hostages, and it’s over.
0:40:33 But the reality is they’re not going to, or they don’t appear that they’re going to.
0:40:39 And Israel now appears to be engaged in a wag-the-dog situation where you have an individual,
0:40:43 a prime minister, who is effectively running to stay out of prison.
0:40:49 If he loses to the election, he may very well likely go to prison, and he realizes the only
0:40:54 way he can rally people around him is to rally them around the flag and be in a constant war
0:40:54 footing.
0:41:00 And also, we need to distinguish the military operation against Iran and Hezbollah and what
0:41:01 is going on in Gaza.
0:41:05 I think there’s different levels of legitimacy and justification for each of those things.
0:41:11 What is happening now in Gaza is just near impossible for us to defend.
0:41:14 And I have been an ardent defender of Israel.
0:41:18 And the bottom line is, it just feels as if it’s gone too far.
0:41:24 And personally, I lay the majority of this at the feet of Hamas, who tried to inspire a
0:41:30 multi-front war against Jews and Israel, who are committed to the extermination of the Jewish
0:41:33 people and invited a terrible response.
0:41:37 But I also do lay some of it now at the feet of Trump.
0:41:44 We are the only nation that can pull and bully and pressure Israel and Gulf states into what,
0:41:45 in my opinion, should be happening right now.
0:41:53 And that is a pan-Arab and American security force that takes control of Gaza and open supply
0:41:58 routes for aid and begins to talk about a thoughtful plan for reconstruction.
0:42:02 And at least locks it down and stops the starvation.
0:42:05 And I feel as if it would have, should have, could have.
0:42:10 But I feel if Biden were still in office or Harris were in office, I think we would be closer to that.
0:42:17 I hope that Trump is sincere about his concern around Gaza and that he has a plan in place.
0:42:22 But I think a multinational peacekeeping force in there, ensuring people are getting aid and
0:42:28 beginning the process of reconstruction, whether that involves a two-state solution, I don’t know.
0:42:31 But at a minimum, stops the starvation.
0:42:33 You know, it’s time.
0:42:34 And there needs to be leadership.
0:42:36 France is fed up.
0:42:39 They’ve decided to recognize Palestine as a state.
0:42:42 And what people don’t realize is there’s hard power and soft power.
0:42:45 And one of the stupid things about USAID cutting it off is that
0:42:48 hard power is very expensive and rarely used.
0:42:51 Soft power is actually a better ROI.
0:42:55 Soft power, whether you think it’s brand or philanthropy or foreign aid.
0:42:59 The soft power and the perception of Israel around the world right now,
0:43:01 it’s a story of two brands.
0:43:03 On one sense, they see what’s happening in Gaza.
0:43:06 And Israel has gone in my lifetime from being the good guys to the bad guys.
0:43:08 That’s just the reality.
0:43:13 That is going to cost them in terms of aid, how people feel about them, et cetera.
0:43:18 Their military strength and their unbelievable, precise military operations, whether it’s taking
0:43:23 in Iran’s air defenses or the Pedro operation, which took years to plan against Hezbollah, there’s
0:43:24 just no doubt about it.
0:43:29 I think the states in the Gulf just look at Israel and go, OK, love them or hate them, these guys
0:43:29 come to play.
0:43:37 So, but what’s happening in Gaza, I think it’s become near impossible for Jews.
0:43:43 I’m not sure I’ve earned the right to call myself a Jew, a Zionist to defend Israel.
0:43:44 It’s just gone too far.
0:43:47 I agree with all of it.
0:43:55 And I would just say that the military precision of, you know, Project Grim Beeper, the Iranian
0:44:01 strikes, that is to some degree a champagne story, right?
0:44:05 That’s people who are sitting around and have the time to talk about it.
0:44:11 When they see starving children, that’s a regular person problem.
0:44:17 And you look so out of touch when you do talk about those kinds of operations, which I think
0:44:19 left the world a safer place.
0:44:20 And I think it’s important.
0:44:25 And, you know, you need to talk about the alliances in the region and what is the potential for a
0:44:28 second round of the Abraham Accords, which I think were an incredible achievement of the
0:44:29 first administration.
0:44:36 But you show someone the back of a kid, the one from the New York Times story, that’s all
0:44:36 that they see.
0:44:37 And that’s all that matters.
0:44:41 Because we know if you don’t have food, you can’t function.
0:44:47 And shame on anyone who’s saying, well, that kid had genetic abnormalities on top of it.
0:44:49 He also has no food.
0:44:53 And there’s no denying the fact that these people have no food.
0:45:01 And Rastusat, who I always like, even though our politics aren’t the same, wrote an op-ed
0:45:04 over the weekend, How Israel’s War Became Unjust.
0:45:06 And this line really stuck out to me.
0:45:08 One can have a righteous cause.
0:45:13 One’s foe can be wicked and brutal and primarily responsible for the conflict’s toll.
0:45:18 And still, under any coherent theory of just war, there is an obligation to refrain from
0:45:21 certain tactics if they create too much collateral damage.
0:45:26 To mitigate certain predictable forms of civilian suffering and to have a strategy that makes
0:45:28 the war’s outcome worth the cost.
0:45:31 And that doesn’t exist anymore.
0:45:33 There is no strategy.
0:45:36 And they have been admitting as much for up to a year, right?
0:45:40 There are Israeli generals who have spoken out to say, this is not winnable.
0:45:43 And that’s the problem with an intractable war, right?
0:45:47 That region, I hate to say it, no one is really going to figure it out.
0:45:49 So you have to just get to a best case scenario.
0:45:53 And I think that the one that you propose makes a lot of sense.
0:45:59 And hopefully, Israel has garnered enough goodwill with other partners or, frankly, is
0:46:03 important to them enough economically that they will help sort this out.
0:46:07 More Arab states need to take refugees than they are.
0:46:11 They have a thing against the Palestinians, and they’re going to have to get over it.
0:46:13 And maybe this pushes us in the direction.
0:46:17 But this inflection point, you’re seeing it on every single level.
0:46:24 The average defenders of Israel, my text messages are full of people who were unrelenting in this.
0:46:25 You know, bring them home.
0:46:26 This is Hamas’s fault.
0:46:32 We’re saying either that this actually is a genocide, which I am not comfortable using that terminology.
0:46:38 But there are people who think a lot like me who are using it to we have to be able to do more.
0:46:42 The presidents of five Israeli universities sent a letter to Netanyahu.
0:46:45 They’ve never done this before about addressing the hunger crisis.
0:46:47 Israeli human rights organizations.
0:46:51 Now, two of them released reports calling it a genocide.
0:46:55 That has never happened before, that an Israeli organization has done that.
0:46:58 I think also Netanyahu is not going to do it.
0:47:08 But when you have people like Ben Gavir and Smotrich in your government, you are not acting as a good faith actor at that point.
0:47:13 Like these people that are saying that if two million people die, so what?
0:47:15 We need to bring the Israeli hostages home.
0:47:19 They are hurting your quads more than helping them, and they should be out.
0:47:30 On Friday night, I was invited to a Shabbat dinner in Riverdale here in the Bronx, and Richie Torres represents the district, and he was there.
0:47:34 And the conversation was around just this.
0:47:36 You know, what’s going on with Israel and Gaza?
0:47:41 What’s going on with our politics of this at home here?
0:47:52 And there were a lot of very concerned Jews sitting around that table saying that we are surely losing public opinion at this point.
0:47:57 You know, Netanyahu is at record lows, deservedly so, in my opinion.
0:48:00 But within the Democratic Party, it’s even more bleak.
0:48:19 And you’ve seen Representative Torres, who, you know, we were lucky enough to have on the podcast, doing more and more interviews where he’s saying this is unsustainable and that the damage done between the Netanyahu government and the modern-day Democratic Party is irreparable at this point.
0:48:22 And that’s very concerning to me.
0:48:33 There was an Israeli at the table, left-wing guy, has lived here for a long time, but he was talking about the protests when Netanyahu tried to do the judicial overhaul.
0:48:37 Remember, there were hundreds of thousands of people on the streets on a daily basis protesting against it.
0:48:47 He said that there were moments, actually, where Israelis were wearing MAGA hats because they feel like Trump is the only person that can actually stand up to Netanyahu.
0:48:54 And that Biden would have been a lot more lax about this, that Kamala Harris would have been a lot more lax about this.
0:49:05 And that story about Axios reported it, that after Netanyahu bombed Damascus for seemingly no reason last week, that Trump got on the phone and basically said, what the fuck are you doing?
0:49:09 That that isn’t a call that Biden would have necessarily made.
0:49:12 And that stuck with me because those are liberal-minded Israelis, right?
0:49:16 Those are people who probably loved Obama, wanted Hillary to win, et cetera.
0:49:36 And the imagery of seeing hundreds of thousands of Israelis sporting MAGA hats is something that sends, you know, a real shiver up my spine and almost indicates that there might not be time left for us to be able to repair this relationship.
0:49:41 I’m saying this as a Democrat and to be able to do the right thing in Gaza.
0:49:52 Yeah, I wonder if coming out of this, I believe Netanyahu is likely going to do more damage to Israel or has done more damage than Trump hopefully will do to America.
0:50:01 One, on the front end, Netanyahu’s deal with the Israeli public was always sort of this unwritten deal of, I’m violating the Constitution.
0:50:02 I’m not very Democratic.
0:50:05 You may not like me, but I’ll keep you safe, right?
0:50:06 Like every strong man.
0:50:07 Yeah, I’m a hard ass.
0:50:08 I’ll keep you safe.
0:50:11 Well, the bottom line is he failed.
0:50:12 I went to the Gaza envelope.
0:50:15 I toured some of the affected kibbutzes.
0:50:21 And the first thing you think, you look out over this field and across the field is Gaza.
0:50:23 You think, how the fuck did they let this happen?
0:50:27 Why were there not helicopter gunships here within about eight minutes?
0:50:39 The day before the Israeli listening service that tracks communications registered that 1,500 Hamas fighters were changing their SIM cards.
0:50:41 Why would they be doing that?
0:50:44 And yet they were totally caught flat footed.
0:50:48 So he failed in his promise to keep them safe.
0:50:59 And then I believe there’s just going to be a flow of ill will towards Israel and a flow of goodwill towards people who are looking to harm Israel because of his actions.
0:51:07 I think he has been an absolute disaster for the well-being of Israel, not only on the front end.
0:51:08 He should be accountable.
0:51:12 Golda Meir was brought into office because there was a reckoning.
0:51:13 And Israel is good at this.
0:51:22 They’re better at this than us of after the situation is addressed, having a reckoning and really looking hard at what happened and who should be responsible.
0:51:29 That’s actually what brought Golda Meir to power is the prime minister before her was held responsible for tactical errors.
0:51:31 That’s going to happen here.
0:51:34 And quite frankly, the ramifications are probably that he’s going to go to jail.
0:51:40 Not for that, but for disassembling the Supreme Court and all sorts of other shit.
0:51:46 But I just can’t imagine anything that has been worse for Israel right now than Netanyahu.
0:51:49 Anyways, with that, any closing thoughts before we move on, Jess?
0:52:08 Just to say that the strongest argument for a changing course on this has been actually returning to Jewish values and that it is not Jewish to be withholding aid from people in complete crisis.
0:52:08 Mm-hmm.
0:52:10 And through no fault of their own.
0:52:19 And Hamas is an evil terrorist organization that did one of the most unthinkable attacks in history, what they did on October 7th.
0:52:22 And they hide amongst civilians.
0:52:26 They don’t care if they use it as a human shield, schools, hospitals.
0:52:28 It doesn’t matter.
0:52:35 But our Jewish values demand that we rise above and that we do the right thing here.
0:52:40 And I’m glad to see that there are the beginnings of a policy change.
0:52:46 And I hope that that continues and that we see a world in which we can have a two-state solution.
0:52:48 There’s the Pollyanna again.
0:52:53 But that people like Netanyahu and Ben Gavir are no longer in power.
0:52:57 That’s a good place to end it.
0:52:58 Let’s take a quick break.
0:52:59 Stay with us.
0:53:10 Hey, this is Peter Kafka, the host of Channels, a show about media and tech and what happens when they collide.
0:53:16 And this may be hard to remember, but not very long ago, magazines were a really big deal.
0:53:25 And the most important magazines were owned by Condé Nast, the glitzy publishing empire that’s the focus of a new book by New York Times reporter Michael Grinbaum.
0:53:40 The way Condé Nast elevated its editors, the way they paid for their mortgages so they could live in beautiful homes, there was a logic to it, which was that Condé Nast itself became seen as this kind of enchanted land.
0:53:45 You can hear the rest of our chat on Channels, wherever you listen to your favorite media podcast.
0:53:58 Every so often, you say a combination of words you never expected to say, such as, Tesla opened a diner in Los Angeles.
0:54:04 This week on The Vergecast, we talked to a writer who went there, ate the food, and saw a lot of Cybertrucks.
0:54:08 Also, Apple’s making a big design change to its operating systems.
0:54:11 It’s called Liquid Glass, and the public can finally try it.
0:54:16 Our reviewers have been testing it for weeks, and they have some strong opinions about how it looks.
0:54:19 Finally, it’s summer blockbuster season.
0:54:24 We talk about the new media circuit that movie stars have to endure to promote their projects.
0:54:26 A lot of it involves being chicken.
0:54:28 That’s this week on The Vergecast.
0:54:37 Barry Diller was behind many of America’s favorite movies and shows.
0:54:40 Now, he’s giving an intimate look into his personal life.
0:54:43 To me, business risks were meaningless.
0:54:45 I couldn’t care less about business risks.
0:54:46 I’m Preet Bharara.
0:54:56 And this week, Diller joins me on my podcast, Stay Tuned with Preet, to discuss his sexuality, the end of Hollywood, and how the media industry broke.
0:54:57 The episode is out now.
0:55:01 Search and follow Stay Tuned with Preet wherever you get your podcasts.
0:55:06 Welcome back.
0:55:12 Before we go, we’re going to check in on the never-ending Epstein saga because things escalated again last week.
0:55:19 The Wall Street Journal reports that Trump was personally briefed that his name does, in fact, appear in the Epstein files.
0:55:29 In response to growing backlash over how his administration is handling the case, Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche spent two full days interviewing Jelaine Maxwell.
0:55:33 She’s also been subpoenaed to testify before Congress the week of August 11th.
0:55:42 Then on Monday, Trump told reporters he can pardon Maxwell, who’s serving a 20-year sentence for sex trafficking, but insisted that nobody’s asked him to do it.
0:55:47 He added that it would be inappropriate to discuss while, of course, discussing it.
0:55:52 Speaker Mike Johnson called the idea of a pardon outrageous, outrageous, outrageous.
0:55:55 Jess, what are your thoughts here?
0:56:01 If he pardons Maxwell, it’s end of days kind of stuff.
0:56:14 Like, I posted on Twitter, because I haven’t had the mental strength to remove myself from there, but that, you know, pardoning Maxwell makes pardoning violent January Sixers look like good judgment.
0:56:18 You know, this woman participated in what Epstein was doing.
0:56:22 She wasn’t some administrative assistant.
0:56:24 She was there in the room.
0:56:27 The Republican Party are obsessed with groomers.
0:56:28 There’s your groomer.
0:56:32 And she’s sitting in a cell for 20 years, which frankly seems short.
0:56:36 And Mike Johnson said that as well, that he thinks that she actually should have had a life sentence.
0:56:38 And I don’t know.
0:56:41 You know, Trump regularly says, well, you know, I’m allowed to do it.
0:56:41 I’m allowed to.
0:56:42 I don’t know.
0:56:43 I haven’t really thought about it.
0:56:48 And he did that with everyone that he pardoned from the, quote unquote, Russia collusion hoax.
0:56:48 Right.
0:56:50 Roger Stone, Manafort, et cetera.
0:57:00 Because of how bad the Epstein saga has been for him, I actually think that the pressure will be enough that he is not going to pardon her.
0:57:01 She’s also a known liar.
0:57:02 He’s a terrible witness.
0:57:04 She’s a perjury as well.
0:57:15 So, you know, when her lawyer says she spent nine hours telling the truth about up to 100 individuals, there’s no way that she actually was telling the truth about all those individuals.
0:57:22 And you can see it reflected when Trump says, you know, I never had the privilege of going to Epstein Island, which is such a weird way to talk about this.
0:57:26 Like he got left out of the trip to the Maldives or something like that.
0:57:34 But, you know, he’s still focused on everybody else that would be in the Epstein files or known associates, especially the Democrats.
0:57:45 They’re beating the drums as well about, you know, the, quote unquote, new intel, which is just recycled from before anyone actually did any investigating what Tulsi has been rolling out.
0:57:54 And basically anyone who’s an honest broker, which is limited these days, has said this is so dishonest of those Dan Abrams’s phraseology.
0:57:57 And, you know, this has always been a wild goose chase.
0:58:05 But they have a real problem on their hands because this is week three going into week four of it being the top story.
0:58:07 Donald Trump can’t do anything.
0:58:14 He can’t even announce this enormous win of a trade deal with the EU without someone asking him about Epstein.
0:58:15 It’s following him to Scotland.
0:58:21 Whatever trip he takes, whatever movement he makes, wherever he goes, there’s going to be a question about this.
0:58:24 The American public is pissed.
0:58:28 You know, he’s minus 37 in approval on this and 75 percent of Republicans.
0:58:33 That’s the biggest number you’re ever going to get of Republicans are dissatisfied with the way that he’s handling it.
0:58:35 Does that mean that they hate Donald Trump?
0:58:38 Like, no, he still has like a 90 percent approval rating within the party.
0:58:41 But 75 percent is a force to be reckoned with.
0:58:56 And these influencers who are, you know, they’re not actually in the cabinet, but they sure seem like they have the level of access and influence as someone who’s in the cabinet or at least with a lower level cabinet job are still beating this drum.
0:58:58 And they’re talking about it on their shows constantly.
0:59:05 Joe Rogan, he said, like, that this is the hard line in the sand and that the administration is gaslighting them.
0:59:07 And he’s not wrong.
0:59:12 OK, first off, they just decided to go interview Jelaine Maxwell.
0:59:13 Right.
0:59:15 She’s been sitting there available for a while.
0:59:18 No, there was no reason to get information from her before.
0:59:20 The fix is in.
0:59:23 Basically, it has been communicated indirectly.
0:59:25 They don’t even need to communicate to her.
0:59:30 Her own lawyer has said, hey, Jelaine, would you like to get out of prison in less than 20 years?
0:59:32 Yeah, that would be nice.
0:59:33 How can we do that?
0:59:59 Well, anything that you give to the attorney general’s office now in this two days of interview that sounds credible enough for them to release and to the extent it can exonerates the president from pedophilia would have a likelihood, a high probability of not getting you a pardon tomorrow, but getting you a pardon in about 31 months before he’s about to leave office.
1:00:04 And a lot of people have said, well, that would just cause a shitstorm.
1:00:07 And I don’t think he cares.
1:00:16 In three and a half years, he’s going to be an 82-year-old obese man who has pardoned himself.
1:00:24 He could give a shit how many of his own party or Democrats are clutching their pearls and saying this is outrageous.
1:00:26 So I think the fix is in.
1:00:27 I think this is obvious.
1:00:38 They’re about to announce that she has information, and it’ll be something along the lines of while he was there and they were good friends, and I did see him in the company of women.
1:00:47 There is nothing that shows, oh, and by the way, he never, ever, or maybe even made some comments that he wasn’t interested in underage.
1:00:51 I stopped using the term underage women.
1:00:55 People have, in the comments, reminded me repeatedly, these are girls, these are children.
1:00:57 But the fix is in.
1:01:04 There’s abso-fucking-lutely no reason to interview her unless they saw a political advantage in interviewing her.
1:01:17 The Department of Justice is not like our traditional Department of Justice where it attempts to go up the food chain and convince people along the way to turn in and to indict and to prosecute.
1:01:35 This is, we’re going to do everything we can, gymnastics, to try and figure out a way to, you know, turn this chicken shit of a scandal into chicken salad for the president, knowing, and this is the problem with an autocracy and a corrupt president, think about this.
1:01:38 The president is scared shitless.
1:01:39 That’s pretty obvious.
1:01:42 He wishes Jelaine Maxwell well.
1:01:43 He said that about her.
1:01:46 He didn’t say, I wish the victims well.
1:01:52 He didn’t say, I hope the trauma that they have experienced, that they find closure in this prison sentence.
1:01:56 The only person he has wished well in all of this is Jelaine Maxwell.
1:01:57 Because why?
1:02:01 He’s fucking terrified of what she might say.
1:02:18 And so to think that she and her defense attorney haven’t done the math here, and to believe that this entire apparatus that was one of the greatest apparatus in the world, the AG and the Department of Justice, which had been totally perverted and had turned it into a weapon.
1:02:20 I mean, this is just too obvious.
1:02:23 And then the pushback I get is, well, the base will go crazy.
1:02:28 He’s going to do here what I would do, and maybe it won’t work, is what he did around his taxes.
1:02:31 Of course I plan to release my taxes.
1:02:32 Of course.
1:02:34 And then he never does it, and he’s never going to.
1:02:37 So of course I’m going to release the files.
1:02:44 Or he releases the files, and the names Bill Gates and Bill Clinton aren’t redacted, and then everything else is redacted.
1:02:48 And Larry Sumner’s and all these famous Democrats.
1:02:57 But the idea that he’s worried about the backlash of what’s going to happen to him, I just don’t—I think Honey Badger don’t care.
1:03:06 I think if he gets to the end of his administration, he’s going to pardon her, and then he’s going to go play golf and die an obese old man alone, which is some compensation.
1:03:14 Well, I think, you know, putting the timeline on it makes it a lot more feasible that this could be the running out the door thing.
1:03:26 I think people are thinking about it in terms of what could happen in the next few months versus what am I going to do as my final act when I get thousands of people coming out of the woodwork, right, saying I need a pardon or, you know, my friend needs this.
1:03:32 So I guess that that is possible, and I agree with you that he doesn’t care.
1:03:39 And you see that even in the way that he treats people who could be or should be the heir or parents for the next administration.
1:03:42 Remember how you wouldn’t even say, like, J.D. Vance would make a great president.
1:03:44 He’s like, yeah, no, I’m in charge.
1:03:50 And that’s how people who are smart analysts about the modern Republican Party look at things.
1:04:01 Like when I had Kellyanne Conway on asking her about the future of the GOP, she said it’s going to be pretty much lost in the wilderness, right, because they have no organizing principle besides Donald Trump.
1:04:09 And he is the kingmaker for everybody, even if he doesn’t necessarily help you electorally, as we’ve seen over and over again in tight races.
1:04:18 But he’s the guy, and he’s also shown an incredible capacity to be able to live in a bubble quite happily.
1:04:22 So if his bubble is going to be Mar-a-Lago, which, you know, it should be.
1:04:23 You’re 82 years old.
1:04:24 You’ve got a bunch of grandkids.
1:04:29 You have a members club where people come just to adore you all the time.
1:04:31 Like, I would want to live in that bubble, too.
1:04:34 Then he especially wouldn’t care about something like that.
1:04:38 So I guess I could see a pardon if it was a final act.
1:04:40 I cannot see a pardon happening right now.
1:04:44 And you brought up we need to make sure that we say that these were children.
1:04:52 Teresa Helm, who was one of the girls’ children who was abused by Epstein and Maxwell, did an interview with MSNBC.
1:04:59 And she said it would mean the complete crumbling of this justice system that should first and foremost stand for, fight for, and protect survivors.
1:05:06 This crime is different than every other crime that we have talked about in reference to Donald Trump.
1:05:08 This is not a white-collar situation.
1:05:10 This is child abuse.
1:05:13 And I am in no way saying that he participated in that.
1:05:15 I have absolutely no idea.
1:05:16 But we know Jeffrey Epstein did.
1:05:18 And we know that Coleen Maxwell did.
1:05:20 Well, where there’s smoke, there’s fire.
1:05:24 Can you imagine anyone sounding more guilty than this guy right now?
1:05:27 He has no crisis comms.
1:05:28 A hundred percent.
1:05:30 Person or ability.
1:05:32 He’s not used to being held accountable.
1:05:33 That’s the thing.
1:05:39 Because even with January 6th getting impeached, et cetera, the Supreme Court came and bailed him out anyway.
1:05:42 And then the electorate came and bailed him out and put him back in office.
1:05:48 And he will not suffer the consequences of any of the actions that he’s taken.
1:05:59 And so I think that this is genuinely shocking to him to have run up against something that seems to matter in a substantive and enduring way to his base.
1:06:00 And he’s floundering.
1:06:02 He doesn’t know what to do.
1:06:03 And suddenly words matter.
1:06:05 They have never mattered before.
1:06:11 When he was with Jonathan Swan and he made the comment about, I wish her well, about Galeen Maxwell, I don’t think he really thought about it.
1:06:12 I don’t think he genuinely wishes her well.
1:06:15 He’s just never been held accountable for a single thing that he said.
1:06:20 You know, Muslim bans, bad hombres, everybody moves on.
1:06:26 It becomes baked into the Donald Trump cake and we just continue to eat it over and over again.
1:06:28 Maybe until now.
1:06:33 Yeah, but even that, the words do matter because he’s not a guy who gives people the benefit of the doubt.
1:06:39 The ordinary Donald Trump with something like this would have said, oh, she’s a horrible woman.
1:06:40 Hope she rots in prison.
1:06:41 Yeah, ugly too.
1:06:44 Instead, he’s, I wish her well.
1:06:53 Logically, the only reason he would say that is to try and curry favor with her so she doesn’t narc on them.
1:06:54 Or because they were genuinely friends.
1:06:56 Or they liked each other.
1:06:56 Right.
1:07:08 To your point, the guy has such incredible instincts for the media and it’s as if his comms people, he said to him, I want to come off as guilty as possible.
1:07:10 What do I say?
1:07:11 What is my body language?
1:07:18 Because if he had just said, in my view, this is insane, these pedophiles, all these Democrats, Bill Clinton.
1:07:22 I think I saw the ghost of Jimmy Carter down there.
1:07:25 I mean, if he just like went fucking crazy, right?
1:07:25 Yeah.
1:07:33 And angry and we’re going to release this thing and then we need to make sure we need to vet it and then released it in six months and it was all redacted.
1:07:35 It would have been bad.
1:07:37 But people would have taken it.
1:07:39 No, his base would have taken it.
1:07:43 Maybe thrown like left a couple names in there like, oh, Bill Clinton’s on a flight list.
1:07:44 Leave it there and go there or whatever.
1:07:47 Instead, he’s like, I don’t think we should.
1:07:49 We should move on.
1:07:53 Like the first time ever that he’s been thoughtful about anything.
1:07:53 Yeah.
1:07:54 It’s just measured.
1:07:56 All of a sudden, he’s gotten very measured.
1:07:57 Yeah.
1:08:01 And it’s just like, Jesus, this guy looks absolutely so guilty.
1:08:05 More importantly, is this the last show of the summer that I’m on?
1:08:06 Yeah.
1:08:07 I’m sad.
1:08:08 I mean, I’m happy for you.
1:08:13 Well, I like you and I have fun during the podcast.
1:08:19 And I’m excited that you’re taking all of August off and recharge your proverbial batteries.
1:08:22 But it will be Raging Moderates Lonely without you.
1:08:26 So, folks, and this is a story of blessings and privilege.
1:08:29 I’ve decided from this point forward in my life, and I’ve done this the last couple of years,
1:08:30 I take August off.
1:08:34 I close the office the last two weeks of August because people who work for me should work harder than me.
1:08:35 It’s scot-free August.
1:08:37 I take all of August off.
1:08:41 But the reason I bring this up is that we have some very exciting co-hosts.
1:08:42 Can you talk about any of them?
1:08:43 One of them is my, literally my hero.
1:08:47 If someone, the other day, on Pierce Morgan, they said, who are your heroes?
1:08:51 And I mentioned this person, and the comments were, like, brutal.
1:08:53 Can you mention who our co-hosts are?
1:08:56 Well, I don’t think this was your hero one, but I think you like him a lot.
1:08:58 We have James Carville next week.
1:08:58 Amazing.
1:09:00 We’re going to have us an election.
1:09:01 We’ll go count some votes.
1:09:02 Yeah.
1:09:03 We’re going to have us an election.
1:09:05 That guy’s a fucking gangster.
1:09:06 He’s not my hero.
1:09:06 Okay.
1:09:09 We have Hillary Clinton, who I think—
1:09:10 My hero.
1:09:10 Yeah.
1:09:11 I mean—
1:09:12 Incredibly smart.
1:09:12 Does the work.
1:09:14 Never lost her focus.
1:09:15 And that is always helping women and children.
1:09:18 Would have been the most qualified president in American history.
1:09:19 Literally.
1:09:19 Flat out.
1:09:22 The most impressive person, in my view.
1:09:23 I’m so excited.
1:09:25 I’m so excited about this.
1:09:26 Anyway, Secretary Clinton.
1:09:26 Secretary Clinton.
1:09:27 Yeah.
1:09:29 This is what you call a major upgrade.
1:09:30 Secretary Clinton is going to be—
1:09:30 No.
1:09:31 Well, yeah.
1:09:32 No, let’s be honest.
1:09:32 I mean, yeah.
1:09:33 Sorry.
1:09:34 Let’s be honest.
1:09:34 Yeah.
1:09:38 Anyways, folks, that’s it for this episode.
1:09:40 Thank you for listening to Raging Moderates.
1:09:42 Our producers are David Toledo and Eric Jenicus.
1:09:44 Our technical directors, Drew Burroughs.
1:09:47 Going forward, you’ll find Raging Moderates every Wednesday and Friday.
1:09:49 Subscribe to Raging Moderates on its own feed.
1:09:52 To hear exclusive interviews with sharp political minds this week.
1:09:53 Oh, my God.
1:09:53 Another hero.
1:09:55 Literally another hero of mine.
1:09:57 Senator Warner is a hero of hers.
1:09:57 Senator Warner.
1:09:59 I wanted him to run for president.
1:10:00 He invited me down.
1:10:02 He wanted to know about big tech.
1:10:02 Oh, great.
1:10:04 The guys, first off, he should be president.
1:10:05 He’s big and he’s handsome.
1:10:07 That’s the primary consideration to be president.
1:10:08 Definitely.
1:10:09 The guy’s a baller.
1:10:09 Made a shit ton of money.
1:10:10 Went into public service.
1:10:11 He’s so smart.
1:10:12 Understands technology.
1:10:15 Just a fantastic public servant.
1:10:16 A great leader.
1:10:18 Represents Virginia really well.
1:10:20 Great gets.
1:10:22 How are we getting all these people?
1:10:23 We’re charming, Scott.
1:10:25 We’re a hit on the hill.
1:10:26 We’re a hit on the hill.
1:10:28 Dozens and dozens of fans on the hill.
1:10:31 Make sure to follow us wherever you get your podcasts.
1:10:32 You don’t miss an episode.
1:10:35 Just have a fantastic August.
1:10:36 I’m going to text you.
1:10:38 I don’t know if you’re going to reply.
1:10:39 I will read them all.
1:10:40 I’ll see you Labor Day.
1:10:41 Thanks, everybody.
1:10:41 Thanks, everybody.