Learn. Share. Evolve…

0:00:01 I want to try something different.
0:00:01 Okay.
0:00:02 It’s the Hormozy Hotline.
0:00:04 Take five listeners out of the crowd.
0:00:05 Have them call in.
0:00:06 Tell us about their business.
0:00:07 Tell us a business problem.
0:00:07 Cool.
0:00:09 So this is the Hormozy Hotline.
0:00:09 Okay.
0:00:09 Are you down?
0:00:10 Let’s do it.
0:00:12 I feel like I can rule the world.
0:00:14 I know I could be what I want to.
0:00:17 I put my all in it like no days off.
0:00:19 On the road, let’s travel, never looking back.
0:00:19 Okay.
0:00:20 We got Flo here.
0:00:24 Flo, I want you to give us the, what’s the name of your business?
0:00:27 And give us the one minute description of what you do.
0:00:29 Give us a sense of where you’re at revenue wise.
0:00:32 And then we’re going to get to what’s your biggest business problem.
0:00:34 And we’re going to try to help you out here in a couple of minutes.
0:00:36 So like I said, I’m Flo.
0:00:37 I live in London.
0:00:39 I own a company called Wentworth Protection.
0:00:44 And so what we do is we install security bollards on people’s driveways.
0:00:48 And if you don’t know what that is, basically like a metal pole that you put on your driveways
0:00:50 to stop your car from getting stolen.
0:00:54 I started this business as a side hustle in January, 2024.
0:00:56 So we’re now like a year and a half in.
0:00:58 It’s just me and my best mate.
0:01:01 We both still do this as a side hustle.
0:01:03 We’ve got a couple of insulation guys.
0:01:07 First year, we did just 250k rev.
0:01:09 This year, we’re probably going to do 500.
0:01:14 And kind of the biggest issue we’re having right now is content.
0:01:18 The problem you solve is people in the UK are getting their car stolen.
0:01:22 And there’s some, you put a pole in the driveway that prevents that.
0:01:22 That’s correct.
0:01:23 Yeah.
0:01:26 Car theft is just through the roof in the UK, especially around London.
0:01:29 So this pole comes up through your driveway.
0:01:33 And it means even if someone gets into your car, they just actually can’t drive it away.
0:01:34 Okay, got it.
0:01:38 So you get 2 to 50k, you’re on pace for 500k this year.
0:01:42 And give us the quick and dirty on how are you getting those customers today?
0:01:43 Because you said it’s a side hustle.
0:01:44 So where are you getting business?
0:01:45 Yeah, yeah.
0:01:48 So the first three months is basically purely door-to-door.
0:01:50 Saturdays and Sundays, just knocking on boards.
0:01:52 Which, by the way, in the UK, people find that really, really strange.
0:01:53 Yeah.
0:02:00 But now, it’s about kind of a 50-50 mix between Google Ads, just like Search, and mainly SEO.
0:02:02 So we get loads of organic leads coming in as well.
0:02:03 And then a little bit of referral in there.
0:02:03 Okay.
0:02:04 All right.
0:02:05 How much do the poles cost?
0:02:08 And the average ticket is about $1,000.
0:02:09 Okay.
0:02:12 So what’s cost you to install?
0:02:15 So we go on roughly 50% margin.
0:02:21 So like paying the installation guys and buying the units, it’s about 50% of tickets.
0:02:22 Okay.
0:02:23 Got it.
0:02:24 So you make 500 bucks in gross profit per.
0:02:25 Does that sound right?
0:02:26 Correct.
0:02:27 Okay, got it.
0:02:29 So what do you want to have happen?
0:02:31 I want more leads.
0:02:32 Okay.
0:02:32 Got it.
0:02:35 So what stopped you from doing more door-to-door?
0:02:37 Honestly, it’s a time constraint currently.
0:02:42 It seems like the conversion rate on door-to-door, the amount of time that it takes, it just doesn’t
0:02:48 equate to extra effort put into content or writing more blog posts or trying to reach
0:02:49 out to commercial partners, that kind of stuff.
0:02:50 Okay.
0:02:55 So one of the big things is like, I think you have to get a little bit narrower in terms
0:02:56 of how you want to get leads.
0:02:59 Because you’re super resource constrained right now.
0:03:03 Like you don’t have a ton of capital that you can like put to work or anything like that.
0:03:07 And so it’s like, you’ve got, you’ve got search, you’ve got SEO, you just mentioned commercial
0:03:09 partners, which I’m guessing you’re doing through outbound.
0:03:10 Is that how you’re getting it?
0:03:11 And you’re also said content.
0:03:12 Yeah, correct.
0:03:14 Content is basically the nut that I’m trying to crack.
0:03:20 I inherently know that content can be really big for this business, but it’s just like we
0:03:21 did a viral TikTok two days ago.
0:03:26 I did a million views and it’s just not translating to any increase in kind of lead flow.
0:03:26 Yeah.
0:03:27 So, okay.
0:03:29 I want to, I want to rewind for a second.
0:03:33 I think that, so fundamentally, because you have these, you have these three ways that
0:03:36 you can reliably get customers and then you have this other way that you would like to
0:03:37 get customers, but aren’t really getting customers from yet.
0:03:38 Does that sound right?
0:03:38 Yeah.
0:03:39 Okay.
0:03:43 So why not, like, what are you spending on, on, on search right now?
0:03:46 About 3K a month.
0:03:47 Okay.
0:03:48 What do you make back on the 3K?
0:03:51 LTV tax about 3 to 1.
0:03:52 3 to 1.
0:03:52 Okay.
0:03:53 So what stops you?
0:03:55 So you’re making nine grand a month roughly off Google.
0:03:56 Yeah.
0:03:57 Okay.
0:03:59 And then SEO is bringing in how much?
0:04:01 Uh, about, about the 10.
0:04:02 Okay.
0:04:03 And what do you spend on SEO?
0:04:07 Uh, honestly, I’m just doing it all myself.
0:04:11 I buy backlinks every now and again, but I’m just doing all the writing and all the technical
0:04:11 SEO myself.
0:04:12 Okay.
0:04:12 Got it.
0:04:15 And that’s bringing like 9,000 a month as well.
0:04:17 Pretty much.
0:04:17 Yeah.
0:04:18 It’s about 50, 50 new days.
0:04:20 And you stopped doing door to door, right?
0:04:21 Now you’re not doing it anymore.
0:04:23 You stopped doing it because you got tired of it or because it stopped working?
0:04:28 No, it’s just, we, it was such a grind in the early days.
0:04:31 It was like, that was the way for us to get the business off the ground.
0:04:32 So we had no money in.
0:04:33 We just have to hustle, speak to people.
0:04:36 But at the moment it’s like, I still have a job.
0:04:36 I have a kid.
0:04:37 My partner has a job.
0:04:38 He has a kid.
0:04:39 Yeah.
0:04:41 And for us to find any time.
0:04:41 Yeah.
0:04:42 To go door to door.
0:04:43 No, heard.
0:04:44 Heard.
0:04:44 Okay.
0:04:47 So, and then the rest is referrals.
0:04:49 Uh, yeah, it’s referrals.
0:04:54 There’s a few little platforms like next door, checker trade, bark, like we get a dribble
0:04:55 in through those.
0:04:56 But, but those must be small.
0:04:59 Cause you basically said about 10 K from each of these, that’s 20 K a month.
0:05:01 That’s 480 K a year.
0:05:03 That’s basically what you said you’re on track to do.
0:05:06 What was those 20, right?
0:05:07 So that’s, so that would get us to 50.
0:05:08 You said your, your run rate’s 500.
0:05:10 Yeah, correct.
0:05:11 So a lot of this is, is pound.
0:05:12 So the numbers I gave you.
0:05:13 Oh, all right, whatever.
0:05:17 Big picture, um, more better new, right?
0:05:24 So if you’ve got, if you’ve got search and you’ve got SEO, you do, I will, I will, like,
0:05:25 I am staring at the door to door thing.
0:05:28 I’m not going to, I will come back to it, but what do you have to make in order to quit
0:05:29 the job?
0:05:31 Uh, we could quit right now.
0:05:34 Um, I, I’m just a little bit of a pussy to be honest.
0:05:35 Okay, fair.
0:05:40 Um, well then how many hours are you dedicating to doing this versus the job?
0:05:42 Uh, it’s like 40 hours.
0:05:44 I was on my job and 50 hours on this.
0:05:44 Heard.
0:05:46 It’s a pretty wake the moment I’m working on this business.
0:05:47 I got it.
0:05:48 So let me ask you a quick question.
0:05:51 If you actually just went door to door for 40 hours a week, I’m not saying you do this,
0:05:53 but I just like to ask the hypothetical.
0:05:56 If you went door to door, basically replaced your job with spending 100% on door to door.
0:05:59 I’m not going to say you do that, but just hypothetically, uh, would you be able to replace
0:06:00 your income if you did that?
0:06:03 I think probably not.
0:06:05 I mean, it’s just, just like running really quick numbers.
0:06:09 Let’s say I get, let’s say I do make two sales a week or three sales a week from door
0:06:12 to door, which would be really impressive for us at this point.
0:06:16 That would bring in 1500 gross to six a month.
0:06:18 That wouldn’t cover it.
0:06:19 Okay, great.
0:06:24 So then what stops you from spending, uh, like 10 grand a month on Google ads?
0:06:25 Yeah.
0:06:26 Great question.
0:06:29 So we just scaled our Google ads from 1500 up to 3k.
0:06:29 Okay.
0:06:33 It takes us about two or three months to get that to scale.
0:06:33 Okay.
0:06:38 Flo, one of the things I love about business is that every problem has already been solved.
0:06:42 And so one of the things I would ask is, can you work backwards from a business that already
0:06:43 is doing what you’re doing?
0:06:45 So are you the only guy doing this?
0:06:47 Are you the only company that offers this service?
0:06:51 Um, and if not, who’s that company and how do they get customers?
0:06:52 Yeah.
0:06:52 Yeah.
0:06:55 There’s a couple of much, much bigger players in this space.
0:06:59 And I think what they’ve cracked is they’re just really, really, really good at organic.
0:07:03 They just get like maybe five to eight X the amount of traffic that we get.
0:07:07 When you say organic, I don’t think you’re saying that the incumbents are amazing at TikTok.
0:07:09 What do you actually mean when you say they get organic?
0:07:13 Sorry, I literally mean like Google search.
0:07:14 Okay.
0:07:14 So they rank high.
0:07:15 SEO.
0:07:15 Okay.
0:07:16 Heard.
0:07:18 Well, let me ask you this question.
0:07:24 Like, so if I bought your business tomorrow, my first ads would probably be meta ads.
0:07:27 Because like making meta ads work.
0:07:27 Yeah.
0:07:29 Making meta ads work.
0:07:32 And the thing that you have is one, you have a clear fear.
0:07:35 Like people are afraid of cars, their car getting stolen.
0:07:39 And I’m sure you can put some stats up on the board that shows like big arrow to the right.
0:07:41 Oh my God, cars are leaving.
0:07:41 Right.
0:07:45 And you also have a service that is tangible and visible.
0:07:47 Like you can demonstrate it.
0:07:50 Much harder to say, hey, like in an ad, I’m really good at SEO.
0:07:53 It’s way better to be like, look, car got stolen.
0:07:57 Like literally, you just like, like you could just do a before and after of like, look,
0:07:59 guy with a mask on gets in the car, walks out.
0:08:01 And then right afterwards, guy with a mask gets in.
0:08:03 And then he’s like, oh no, this one.
0:08:06 It’s literally the, the ads that I would mirror are the car jack ads.
0:08:08 If you, so Google that.
0:08:09 It’s the little, like the.
0:08:11 The bar you used to put on your steering wheel.
0:08:12 Yeah, you put on the steering wheel.
0:08:13 Those ads.
0:08:17 And then you just go local targeting, do a, you know, 10 mile radius or whatever that is
0:08:17 in kilometers.
0:08:23 That I would bet you right now would get you the, like that would scale like really high.
0:08:26 Like you could probably get to 10, 20,000 a month.
0:08:32 We did, we did meta ads in the early days and I told myself that didn’t work, but it was
0:08:33 just the craze, which is terrible.
0:08:35 Yeah, I’m sure it was.
0:08:36 I mean, advertising works.
0:08:38 It’s not like meta ads don’t work, right?
0:08:40 It’s like you just needed to get the process down.
0:08:44 But if you just do a very simple narrative ad with your iPhone, demonstrating the product
0:08:48 and the problem that it solves and keep it under 60 seconds, I guarantee that you’ll be
0:08:49 able to get leads.
0:08:52 And then all you have to do is just call them, get a deposit on the phone for you to
0:08:57 show up and then, and then roll the deposit towards the, the thousand bucks, which is like,
0:08:59 Hey, it’s a hundred bucks for an assessment.
0:09:00 It’s just to make sure that you show up.
0:09:03 And if you suck at sales and say, Hey, just put a card down.
0:09:05 And then I’ll only bill you if you don’t show it’s just to make sure.
0:09:07 Cause I’m going to send a truck and a guy out there.
0:09:08 It’s just, we don’t want to get no showed.
0:09:10 Most people will be fine with that.
0:09:14 And then you just roll it right into the thousand bucks if they just decide today.
0:09:16 And that gives you a little bit of urgency in the sale when you show up.
0:09:17 Even better.
0:09:18 We don’t even have to show up.
0:09:21 We, we can just, we can just do the whole thing.
0:09:22 We don’t, we don’t really do site visits.
0:09:23 Can I answer your question, Alex?
0:09:26 Wait, you just install it on first go.
0:09:26 There’s no scouting.
0:09:27 Explain that.
0:09:30 So you just go out and install it first shot, right?
0:09:30 Is that what you’re saying?
0:09:31 Yeah.
0:09:32 They just send us a picture.
0:09:33 We say, let’s go for it.
0:09:34 They send us a 50% deposit.
0:09:35 Yeah.
0:09:35 Okay.
0:09:36 Great.
0:09:38 So that’s, I mean, literally it’s a phone sale.
0:09:42 So if I’m looking at all this stuff, the first thing I would do is say like, let’s
0:09:43 see if I could triple, you know, triple Google ads.
0:09:45 You already went to three, three K.
0:09:46 I’d be like, can we get to nine?
0:09:49 And then it’s like, cool, that buys you your job back, right?
0:09:52 If it, if you got it, if you tripled and you kept row ads the same, would that allow you
0:09:52 to quit?
0:09:54 Yeah.
0:09:55 Right.
0:09:59 And I would, I would, before doing meta, I would keep hitting Google ads until I can’t
0:10:00 do it anymore.
0:10:01 I would buy all the traffic.
0:10:05 And then once I’d maxed out Google locally, I would a hundred percent put all my stuff
0:10:06 in meta ads.
0:10:12 What’s the rationale on keeping going on Google rather than just running with like doing now
0:10:14 every, every extra penny into meta?
0:10:16 Because you haven’t done it yet.
0:10:17 Got it.
0:10:20 If you’re making money somewhere, make as much as you can first.
0:10:23 And then once you can’t make any more, more, better, new.
0:10:31 So Flo, one last thing that I think is important is you basically said something that I think
0:10:34 is emotional, but not logical.
0:10:38 And I think you could counter either emotion with emotion or logic with logic, but don’t
0:10:39 try to counter emotion with logic.
0:10:42 So you have, you basically were like, I haven’t quit my job.
0:10:43 Why?
0:10:44 Because I’m being a bit of a pussy about it.
0:10:48 So I think you got to have a conversation with yourself about how you feel about that.
0:10:50 Do you want this to be a forever side hustle?
0:10:52 Or would you actually like this to be your main business?
0:10:55 And if so, where would you get the courage and the conviction to do this?
0:10:56 Because you have some evidence.
0:10:58 Do you have currently enough evidence?
0:10:59 Would you like some more evidence?
0:11:00 What would that take?
0:11:04 Because, you know, you’re going to be limited by your own bandwidth in this business.
0:11:06 And so we could give you five strategies that would work.
0:11:10 But if you only have 10 hours when you’re fatigued to go execute them, you’re going to walk
0:11:13 away saying, ah, it didn’t really work because you didn’t really try it.
0:11:16 And so I think for your long-term success, you got to be able to go all in on this.
0:11:19 And maybe, maybe now’s the time, maybe it’s not only you know that,
0:11:26 but it sounds like that’s something to address today and try to figure out how do I want to
0:11:26 think about that?
0:11:30 I know how I have been thinking about it, but how do I want to think about that going forward?
0:11:30 Right?
0:11:31 What’s the narrative?
0:11:33 What’s the narrative to myself about that?
0:11:35 So don’t answer that now, but I think that’s something worth doing.
0:11:37 That’s a, that’s between you and your therapist.
0:11:39 So, but, but, but I think it’s important to answer that.
0:11:44 I know a lot of entrepreneurs who have gotten success started on the side.
0:11:48 I don’t know a lot of entrepreneurs who finished with it as on the side, right?
0:11:52 So unlikely that that’s your end outcome with this is that this stays a side hustle.
0:11:54 And so the question is, how do you get there from where you are today?
0:11:55 Yeah.
0:11:55 Yeah.
0:11:58 I love nothing more than, than being in the game.
0:12:00 So I think that’s where I’m headed.
0:12:03 All right, Flo, we’ve been charging $1.99 a minute.
0:12:05 So you’re, you owe us some money now.
0:12:06 Thank you for calling the Hormozy Hotline.
0:12:07 We will see you later.
0:12:07 Thanks, dude.
0:12:08 Appreciate you.
0:12:09 Let us know what happens.
0:12:10 Thank you.
0:12:10 Thank you.
0:12:10 Thank you.
0:12:11 See you at the book launch.
0:12:17 Hey, let’s take a quick break for a message from our sponsor, HubSpot, who’s making this
0:12:18 episode possible.
0:12:22 Listen, if you’re trying to build something big and I’m talking about a hundred million dollar
0:12:25 or a billion dollar company, one of the most important things is to focus on the market.
0:12:26 Where is the opportunity?
0:12:30 You are like a surfer on a surfboard and you were trying to find the biggest, best wave
0:12:32 possible for you to go on.
0:12:36 Well, HubSpot has put together a cheat sheet that is studying and sort of reverse engineering
0:12:37 what’s working today.
0:12:41 So they’re looking at the top performing industries that you could be looking at, the funding routes
0:12:44 that work the best and the growth strategies that the fastest growing companies are using.
0:12:50 So if you want a one pager, that is a cheat sheet on the, uh, the big company playbook.
0:12:51 You can get it right now.
0:12:55 Just either scan this QR code that you see on the screen or click the link in the description
0:12:55 below.
0:12:56 All right, back to the show.
0:12:58 All right.
0:12:59 All right.
0:13:01 What’s up?
0:13:02 Who am I speaking to?
0:13:05 Speaking to Carson.
0:13:06 Thanks for meeting you.
0:13:06 Carson.
0:13:07 Pleasure, man.
0:13:08 Tell us about the business.
0:13:10 So, yeah, my name is Carson.
0:13:11 I have a recruiting business.
0:13:14 I tell my clients, hiring should make you money.
0:13:15 Not come two times.
0:13:17 That’s why it builds Diamond Connect.
0:13:19 I’m a customer.
0:13:20 I use this business.
0:13:25 work with a lot of companies like True Classic, X-Cloud, and Hardware.
0:13:25 Okay.
0:13:26 Full cycle recruiting.
0:13:28 Got it.
0:13:31 So, do you do support or what roles do you recruit for?
0:13:33 Yeah, really all roles.
0:13:36 Junior to C-level roles.
0:13:38 Did a TMO for Sean.
0:13:43 Did performance, creative, retention, social media, head of ops.
0:13:45 So, a lot more on the marketing and RevGen side.
0:13:47 Carson, here’s your ad, Carson.
0:13:48 Yeah.
0:13:51 Carson found me my CMO for my e-com business, who’s now the CEO of the e-com business.
0:13:53 That’s as good as you can do when you play someone.
0:13:54 There’s your plug.
0:13:54 All right.
0:13:55 What’s revenue right now?
0:14:00 Right now, for last year, did 1.6.
0:14:01 Okay.
0:14:03 This year, tracking it hit around 2.
0:14:03 Okay.
0:14:04 Got it.
0:14:06 So, what’s the issue?
0:14:06 What’s holding it back?
0:14:10 A few things.
0:14:17 Being a contingency-focused recruiting ACP ultimately allowed us to, you know, get a lot of clients
0:14:17 in the door.
0:14:18 Yeah.
0:14:24 It does come with flaws of pausing roles, slow communication, how to let skin in the game.
0:14:31 And so, I think really, like, we’ve learned once we unlock the first hire, they see the value
0:14:36 and stick with us, really just trying to focus on kind of building that first role with them
0:14:38 to show them what we’re doing.
0:14:39 Okay.
0:14:41 And what’s the issue with your current way of doing it?
0:14:44 We have, like, a really good process.
0:14:47 It’s just we have a lot of clients that sort of, like, pause roles.
0:14:51 There’s a lot of potential on the table for candidates that we have that are interviewing.
0:14:57 And I think there’s a lot more potential of kind of getting more of a streamlined process,
0:14:58 me getting less in the lead.
0:15:00 Carson, let me ask you a question.
0:15:02 Because I think, ask a better question, you’ll get a better answer.
0:15:05 Is your question, how do I streamline operations?
0:15:06 Is this an operational question?
0:15:12 Or is this a scaling question of, okay, I did 1.6, I did 2, I want to get to 5 or 4 a year.
0:15:16 And right now, I don’t feel like I’m able to do that because of either A, my business model,
0:15:17 or B, my operation.
0:15:21 So, is your question on the business model and the growth side of things?
0:15:22 Or is it on the operation?
0:15:23 Yes.
0:15:26 I would say more on the business side, like the first you said.
0:15:28 I guess I kind of said it in two questions.
0:15:30 But mainly, I want to scale, right?
0:15:31 We’re about to hit 2 million this year.
0:15:33 I see a lot of potential.
0:15:39 I want to figure out how do I take this contingency recruiting business to 5 to 7 million being so elite.
0:15:39 Yeah.
0:15:41 So, how do you get customers right now?
0:15:43 Really, like 98% of referrals.
0:15:48 You know, I have a really good, really good pile of bait, really good customer bait.
0:15:54 And a lot of people in the e-com space, just as such a niche bait, you know, we get a lot of referrals that way.
0:15:55 Got it.
0:16:00 So, I mean, fundamentally, I’ll ask a different question.
0:16:06 If you doubled the amount of people who are asking for, you know, roles right now, would you be able to handle it?
0:16:07 I would say yes.
0:16:12 I think I would need to bring on maybe a few extra recruiters in scale.
0:16:17 But ultimately, like, these clients used me because of me and the relationships we have.
0:16:17 Sure.
0:16:23 I’m trying to figure out how do I stay in the weeds, but also kind of still ramp up in scale, right?
0:16:24 Yeah.
0:16:26 So, I’ll cut you off for a second just to, yeah.
0:16:33 So, basically, the question that I’m asking, I’ll tell you the intention by the question, which is, are you demand-constrained or are you supply-constrained?
0:16:34 Right?
0:16:37 And so, right now, if I were to say, I can go send you more business, could you handle it?
0:16:40 If the answer is yes, then we don’t focus on the supply side.
0:16:41 We focus on the demand side.
0:16:47 If it’s, I could handle more, but I’ve got more people than I can handle right now and I need to go get more recruiters.
0:16:48 So, which side is it?
0:16:50 Yeah, I think we could handle more.
0:16:50 Okay, great.
0:16:51 So, you’re demand-constrained.
0:16:57 All right, so, from the demand perspective, if you only have referrals, then you need to have an input-output in the business to get more leads.
0:16:59 Correct.
0:17:05 Okay, so, it’s actually going to be, so, best way versus the best way for you will be two different things.
0:17:08 So, you’ve got your, you’ve got the core four.
0:17:09 Have you read the book?
0:17:11 Correct.
0:17:20 Right, so, you’ve got, you’ve got warm outreach, you’ve got cold outreach, you’ve got content, and then you’ve got ads, and then on the other side, you’ve got affiliates, right?
0:17:22 Yes.
0:17:28 Okay, so, based on your background, you get recruits via outbound?
0:17:34 Yeah, like, outbound or really all referrals directly from clients.
0:17:38 Yeah, when you recruited my CMO, it’s because you’re blasting people on LinkedIn.
0:17:39 Hey, would you be interested?
0:17:39 Hey, I got something.
0:17:44 You’re doing outbound to get candidates, which means you have the skill and muscle of outbound already.
0:17:45 You’re just only using it for your supply.
0:17:48 What if you used it for your demand?
0:17:50 Ah, that makes sense.
0:17:52 Light bulb moment.
0:17:52 Let’s go.
0:17:52 There we go.
0:18:02 So, fundamentally, you already know your, your metrics for your outbound funnel, which is like, you know, we do 100 connects, and then 100 connects get us, whatever, five meetings, and then five meetings turn into one fix, or whatever it is, right?
0:18:05 All you have to do is just turn that external, same exact funnel.
0:18:08 Yeah, clearly just focus more on the outbound.
0:18:09 Yeah, because it’s your main game.
0:18:10 It’s your main game.
0:18:12 I wasn’t going to be like, hey, man, learn ads.
0:18:17 It’s just like, if you were like, you know what, we’re really, because the secondary thing, I’ll just be transparent with you.
0:18:20 Because of the nature of recruiting, you probably have access to very good marketers.
0:18:26 And so, if you could go recruit a CMO who could run the ads for you to go get those customers, that would also be a play.
0:18:35 But in terms of, if I’m going to give like, the absolute, I had to bet my baby on the fact that you’d be successful, I would say do more of the thing that you’re already doing, just change the, change the target.
0:18:35 That’s it.
0:18:42 And since you’ve recruited for a whole bunch of different roles, recruiting for customers, if you think of it like that, is I think the natural step.
0:18:43 And you can for sure scale that to the moon.
0:18:44 For sure.
0:18:48 Question on the, like, being a contingency focus, right?
0:18:49 Like, a lot of scheme of the game.
0:18:52 Obviously, it’s low risk for them, high reward for us.
0:18:59 How do I really kind of like, demand sort of more communication, making sure clients are pausing roles?
0:19:01 There’s a lot of things out of our control to scale.
0:19:02 I’m trying to figure out how I…
0:19:03 Two things.
0:19:04 Two things.
0:19:06 So, or three things.
0:19:08 So, one is going to be the customer vetting, right?
0:19:09 You have to have certain types of customers.
0:19:10 If you have shitty customers, they’re going to treat you shitty.
0:19:12 If you have good customers, they tend to be more professional.
0:19:13 So, part of that’s going to be, what is our ideal customer?
0:19:14 Number one.
0:19:17 Number two, the contingency thing.
0:19:20 The question is whether it’s a feature or a bug, right?
0:19:21 Like, this may just be a…
0:19:22 And, like, this happens all the time.
0:19:23 We’ll have these conversations.
0:19:26 We’ll be like, what if we decide this isn’t a problem anymore and all of our metrics of the business are fine?
0:19:28 Hey, let’s take a quick break.
0:19:31 You know, HubSpot helped Tumblr solve a big problem.
0:19:32 Tumblr needed to move fast.
0:19:34 They were trying to produce trending content.
0:19:38 But their marketing department was stuck waiting on engineers to code every single email campaign.
0:19:45 But now, they use HubSpot’s customer platform to email real-time trending content to millions of users in just seconds.
0:19:47 And the result was huge.
0:19:49 Three times more engagement and double the content creation.
0:19:53 If you want to move faster like Tumblr, visit HubSpot.com.
0:19:53 All right.
0:19:54 Back to the show.
0:19:56 So, what are your margins right now?
0:19:59 Probably about 50%.
0:20:00 Right.
0:20:00 Okay.
0:20:01 So, your margins are fine.
0:20:06 And the issue that you have right now is just like, it’s like, sometimes customers don’t do what I want them to.
0:20:07 And I get it.
0:20:09 And your preference is not for that.
0:20:18 So, the only tiny tweak you could consider when you have more demand, but you don’t have that, which is why you have no leverage, is that you can say, listen, our way of doing this is that you put a card down.
0:20:19 It is success-based.
0:20:23 But if you don’t follow our process, we bill you a penalty because you’re wasting our time.
0:20:24 So, you can do that.
0:20:30 It’s an easy, easy fix on the front end and say, listen, the roll is 15 grand for the, you know, the price range you’re looking at.
0:20:31 We get 30%, whatever the hell it is.
0:20:32 Right.
0:20:33 But we charge five if you waste our time.
0:20:35 Now, we don’t want to charge you anything.
0:20:36 Right.
0:20:37 We don’t want to charge you anything.
0:20:41 Now, if you get a little bit more, again, this is where supply and demand becomes important.
0:20:45 If you continue to get more and more demand, then you start to have more and more of the leverage shift to you.
0:20:48 And you say, listen, I do half now and half when we complete the roll.
0:20:50 Because I’ve got, and if you don’t want it, that’s fine.
0:20:51 I’ve got 10 other guys behind you.
0:20:53 Yeah, that makes sense.
0:20:54 So, you have no leverage right now.
0:20:55 And it makes sense.
0:21:01 So, number one, I don’t think you have a steaming fire because you’ve got 50% margins and things seem to be going okay.
0:21:03 You’ve got 98% referrals, which means you’re good at what you do.
0:21:11 So, I think we just need to put some more on the front end, which is going to be take the Outbound engine, point it towards customers, and then be hyper-targeted about the customers that are going to be the best types.
0:21:13 And ideally, you probably know what they look like.
0:21:19 Like, if you take the top 20% of your customers now that are worth the most, the beauty of Outbound is you get to snipe who you want.
0:21:23 And so, you can just say, I’m only going after people who I know are going to do five rolls a year.
0:21:26 That’s a good way to put it that way.
0:21:30 Yeah, Carson, I think what Alex just said is huge for you.
0:21:33 I would not have used you had you been like, give me a 20K retainer for this roll.
0:21:34 Why?
0:21:35 Because you were a college kid.
0:21:36 You’re like 22 years old.
0:21:37 You haven’t even mentioned that part.
0:21:37 It’s not broken.
0:21:39 You were doing this while you were in college.
0:21:42 And so, I think you used that to your advantage.
0:21:50 So, I think that reframing it in your own mind as a feature instead of a bug, I think will do you a lot of good, again, psychologically, because it’s your own mind as a founder that drives you nuts.
0:21:55 And once you just literally just relabel the same experience you’re having, you will have a new experience.
0:21:58 And so, try that out along with the Outbound.
0:21:59 Was that helpful, Carson?
0:22:02 So, super helpful, both of you.
0:22:03 Thank you so much.
0:22:03 Rock and roll, baby.
0:22:04 Later.
0:22:04 Crush it.
0:22:05 All right.
0:22:07 Let’s take maybe one or two more.
0:22:07 What do you think?
0:22:08 How much is it hot?
0:22:08 Let’s do it.
0:22:10 The weather is cold, but the deals are hot.
0:22:13 What’s up?
0:22:14 You’re on the line.
0:22:15 How are you doing, Jordan?
0:22:17 How are you guys?
0:22:18 Oh, we got a group call.
0:22:19 We got the co-founder in here.
0:22:19 Is that right?
0:22:21 The co-founder is here.
0:22:21 All right.
0:22:23 You got Sean and this is Alex.
0:22:26 Can you give us your names and your business name?
0:22:28 And then give us a one-minute description.
0:22:29 What do you guys do?
0:22:31 And how is it going revenue-wise?
0:22:33 I’m Jordan Egbert, Justin Frober.
0:22:35 My co-founder is also on the call.
0:22:40 Our business is Elite Travel Hackers, and we help business owners take their families
0:22:45 on $30,000 to $50,000 luxury vacations for little to no money out-of-pocket using credit
0:22:48 card points, and we do that in two ways.
0:22:53 The first thing is we help them optimize and maximize the number of points they’re earning
0:22:57 per year, so most people will earn one point per dollar on their credit card spend.
0:23:02 We’re typically able to get at least a 3, 4x on those points earned.
0:23:05 You help them get more points, and then you help them spend it well, yeah?
0:23:08 And then we help you spend it well.
0:23:13 First-class flights, five-star hotels, luxury travel, all for little to no money out-of-pocket.
0:23:16 So, Jordan, is the business working right now, or is it broken right now?
0:23:17 What are we working with?
0:23:17 Yeah, what’s revenue?
0:23:18 What’s, yeah.
0:23:19 Yep.
0:23:20 Business is working.
0:23:22 You’re doing about $40,000 a month right now.
0:23:28 We do have some hurdles that we’ve come into, and I’ll let Justin kind of go through those.
0:23:30 Oh, he’s the guy who deals with the problems?
0:23:31 Okay.
0:23:33 I’m going to guess that you’re demand-constrained.
0:23:34 That’s going to be my guess.
0:23:35 I could be wrong, but go for it.
0:23:37 Yeah.
0:23:39 So, last month, we actually had a really big month.
0:23:41 We scaled the $85,000.
0:23:42 Awesome.
0:23:53 And spent a lot of time refining systems, processes, automations, getting the next round of staff hired so that we can make the next big push on leads.
0:23:56 Right now, the majority of our business comes from referrals, actually.
0:24:00 And then 20% of our business comes from, like, organic traffic.
0:24:03 And then we only have a 23% close rate there.
0:24:08 So, there’s a massive gap between the referral and organic close rates.
0:24:12 Are you saying 80% of the business is referral, or you said that was the close rate?
0:24:13 No, sorry.
0:24:15 69% of the business is referrals.
0:24:16 Okay.
0:24:19 98% close rate on referrals.
0:24:19 Okay.
0:24:20 Okay.
0:24:20 Everybody closes.
0:24:23 And then the rest of the business is through organic?
0:24:28 Do you just mean web traffic from Google search, or do you mean content-based or, you know, a mix of everything?
0:24:29 Content-based.
0:24:30 Okay.
0:24:33 And then is your question, like, try to state the question as crisply as you can.
0:24:34 So, what’s the question you guys have?
0:24:39 How do we build trust faster and increase close rates from cold traffic?
0:24:41 Is there a tweak in our offer?
0:24:41 Yeah.
0:24:41 Messaging?
0:24:42 All right.
0:24:44 I’m going to rock your shit in a couple seconds.
0:24:45 So, just tell me.
0:24:46 So, what’s the price point right now?
0:24:48 3K to 15K.
0:24:48 Okay.
0:24:51 So, it scales depending on their whatever.
0:24:54 Number of trips they’re taking.
0:24:54 Yeah.
0:24:56 And how much they’re spending out of pocket.
0:24:56 Okay.
0:24:57 Got it.
0:24:57 Heard.
0:25:02 And so, right now, I’m assuming that you have the same sales process for referrals as you do for people from content?
0:25:04 Yeah.
0:25:05 That’s the issue.
0:25:16 So, every traffic source has to get treated differently because they have a, basically, if you think about a customer on a continuum, there’s a certain amount of information that has to get consumed in order to make a decision.
0:25:17 And so, what you need is a microwave.
0:25:19 You need something that’s going to heat them up really quickly.
0:25:22 And so, right now, walk me through the click to close.
0:25:28 So, if someone sees some post or some reel, they then, what, DM you or they go to your link or they comment, they get a mini chat.
0:25:29 Like, what do they do?
0:25:30 Click?
0:25:30 DM.
0:25:31 DM.
0:25:31 Okay.
0:25:32 So, they DM you.
0:25:33 Got it.
0:25:36 So, after they DM, there’s a setter in the DMs, right?
0:25:38 Correct.
0:25:38 Okay.
0:25:40 So, DM setter.
0:25:41 And then what happens after that?
0:25:44 Into sales calendar.
0:25:45 Okay.
0:25:45 Okay.
0:25:45 Okay.
0:25:48 Got it.
0:25:49 And that’s it.
0:25:49 That’s what happens.
0:25:52 Is there anything else that, like, they consume between set and close?
0:26:00 There’s a 60-second warm-up video saying, hey, come with this, you know, these data points so that we can maximize what you’re doing.
0:26:01 Yeah.
0:26:02 So, you’re missing a VSL.
0:26:03 That’s all.
0:26:04 All right.
0:26:06 Instead of a commercial break, I’m going to tell you a quick little story.
0:26:09 So, a few years ago, I got really into crypto.
0:26:11 Bitcoin, Ethereum, I was all about it.
0:26:13 And I wanted to be at the center of the action.
0:26:14 I didn’t just want to buy the coins.
0:26:16 I actually wanted to be, you know, on the edge.
0:26:19 I wanted to be a part of the community that was actually building this thing.
0:26:20 And, look, I’m not a genius.
0:26:22 I don’t know how to build a blockchain.
0:26:27 But I did realize that I could create a newsletter that would keep people up to date on what was going on in the world of crypto.
0:26:29 That’s what I had wanted.
0:26:32 I wanted to know what’s new, what’s interesting, what should I pay attention to.
0:26:35 And I had friends that had sold their newsletter companies.
0:26:37 Like, Sam had built The Hustle.
0:26:38 Austin had built Morning Brew.
0:26:40 And they had sold their newsletters for tens of millions of dollars.
0:26:41 So, I thought, how hard could it be?
0:26:44 I launched a newsletter called The Milk Road.
0:26:45 It was a daily crypto newsletter.
0:26:46 And it grew like wildfire.
0:26:49 We grew it from zero to over a quarter million subscribers in a year.
0:26:53 Partly because the content was good, but partly because people were crazy about crypto.
0:26:55 And that was a good time to be doing this.
0:27:04 But the reality is that we wouldn’t have been able to do that and build that business that we ended up selling a year later for millions of dollars had we not had Beehive.
0:27:14 Beehive was the reason we could do it in a year because if we didn’t have that, we would have had to build all sorts of custom stuff or pay expensive consultants to do things or use five different tools and try to stitch them together.
0:27:16 Beehive just did it all for us.
0:27:19 It is the best way to start and grow a newsletter.
0:27:26 An email newsletter is this little secret of the business world because they’re free to send, they’re free to grow, and you can build this incredible relationship between you and the readers.
0:27:27 So, check it out.
0:27:30 Beehive is actually offering 30% off your first three months if you use the code MFM30.
0:27:35 So, go to beehive.com and then use the code MFM30 to get the deal today.
0:27:36 There’s a link in the description.
0:27:38 So, two things.
0:27:40 So, here’s what you’re going to do.
0:27:41 You’re going to write a seven-minute BSL.
0:27:42 All right.
0:27:44 And very simple.
0:27:49 You’ll probably – it follows the same concept as a YouTube video.
0:27:50 So, you’ll have a promise.
0:27:54 You’ll have a pain that they’re going to help them avoid.
0:27:57 You’re going to give them a plan of how it’s all going to work.
0:28:01 And then you’re going to have proof that you can help them do that.
0:28:03 And that’s going to be in the first 60 seconds.
0:28:08 And then you’re going to have basically belief one, belief number two, and belief number three.
0:28:16 So, basically, the three biggest objections that people bring up typically on sales calls, you’re going to break those down as FAQs during the thing.
0:28:20 And then you’ll put your 60-second, this is how you prep for the call.
0:28:21 All right.
0:28:24 That’s what you do.
0:28:25 Now, you’re going to script that whole thing out.
0:28:28 And then I also want you to take that and put it into a PDF.
0:28:33 And then you can send it because some people, especially the more ballers, are bigger readers than they are watchers.
0:28:35 And so, you can say, hey, here’s two ways to consume it.
0:28:37 Just watch it before the call.
0:28:41 And then when you do that closed call, the first question you ask after you say, hey, how’s it going today?
0:28:44 Then, which you don’t open a call that way, but, you know, whatever.
0:28:48 Then you say, hey, did you get a chance to watch the video?
0:28:49 Which you should have already done.
0:28:51 Like, the closer should double-check that prior to the call.
0:28:54 And if, for some reason, they have not done it, you say, hey, no worries.
0:28:55 I’m going to go grab a cup of coffee.
0:28:58 You can go play it, and I’ll come back in seven minutes, and then we can talk about it.
0:29:02 That way, I’m not just blabbing a whole bunch of stuff because that way you can see the visuals,
0:29:03 and you can see everything as tight as humanly possible.
0:29:04 It’s the best use of your time.
0:29:05 Got it.
0:29:06 That’s literally it.
0:29:10 Now, the second thing that I want to do, though, is I want to kind of shift your belief a little bit
0:29:12 because you said we’re only closing 23%.
0:29:13 23% isn’t dog shit.
0:29:17 Like, I would say that you’re going to probably, like, if you just do this, you’ll probably bump
0:29:18 to, like, mid-30s.
0:29:21 But that’s just not, it’s not weird.
0:29:23 That’s just, like, a normal close rate.
0:29:24 And referrals are amazing.
0:29:26 That’s why everybody would love to have referrals.
0:29:31 But, like, if you really want to get your mind blown, start running ads.
0:29:32 It’s going to be way worse than the content leads.
0:29:39 So you want to treat warm like cold, and you treat cold like cold by giving them more information
0:29:40 prior to the close.
0:29:42 Got it.
0:29:45 That’s, like, if you only need to do one thing, that’s all you got to do.
0:29:46 And you’ll have an increase in close rate.
0:29:49 That being said, that’s not going to take you to 5 million a year.
0:29:53 That’s just going to give you a, maybe a 50% lift on whatever you’re currently doing.
0:29:58 And so once you do that, you still have demand issues, which means that you still need to
0:30:01 have a reliable, like, basically, like, how can we make more and better content?
0:30:04 Which is the larger and more important question.
0:30:07 But do that first.
0:30:10 Yeah, solve that one problem at a time.
0:30:12 And at the end of the day, you want to have your growth equation.
0:30:15 I think that’s what he’s talking about, which is today, I forgot what you said, you’re converting
0:30:17 29% or something like that.
0:30:19 It’s, like, actually a pretty decent number.
0:30:22 If that number was 40, what happens to our business?
0:30:23 Right?
0:30:26 Because you don’t want to put a transformational amount of effort into something that doesn’t
0:30:28 have a transformational result on the other side of it.
0:30:32 And you can just napkin math and save yourself a lot of pain if that’s what the situation
0:30:33 would be.
0:30:37 It might be that you can actually just double the number of referrals you’re getting by doing
0:30:37 something simple.
0:30:40 Maybe today you’re just getting them and you’re not actually asking for them intelligently
0:30:43 and ramping that up where you already have a 98% close rate.
0:30:47 So just make sure you do some napkin math on, like, what does the top of funnel look like
0:30:51 before I go try to beat my head against the wall increasing this conversion?
0:30:55 You can increase your conversion, and you should, but it is worth doing some napkin
0:30:57 math to see, if I did this, would this get me where I want to go?
0:31:01 Or is this just one block and I’m going to have to figure out two more things after that?
0:31:03 But it’s at least good to know that going in.
0:31:06 Hey, Jordan, would you have a referral script you use right now?
0:31:07 I’ll take that one.
0:31:08 Yeah.
0:31:15 So at the end of every onboarding call, we’re asking them who else they know.
0:31:17 How do you ask them?
0:31:21 Just, hey, do you think anybody else could use our services?
0:31:24 You’ve seen what it’s like to do our, critic our strategies.
0:31:27 Can you connect me via text or email?
0:31:28 Yeah.
0:31:30 So I would tweak that.
0:31:32 This is just a, this is just a little golden BB for you.
0:31:35 Compliment them first so you can reframe it.
0:31:37 So you’re like, dude, you’re an absolute pleasure to deal with.
0:31:39 My God, I talked to a bunch of different business owners every day.
0:31:41 If I could talk to only people like you, I would.
0:31:44 So what other successful business owners like you do you know?
0:31:47 So that compliments them twice before making an ask.
0:31:50 And most people are way happier to give you a referral.
0:31:53 Also, when you say, I want other people who are successful like you,
0:31:55 you’ll also get better referrals overall.
0:31:57 Got it.
0:31:58 Makes perfect sense.
0:31:58 Yeah.
0:31:58 A little tweak.
0:32:00 One other one that might help there.
0:32:03 I think you said this really well with the gym business.
0:32:06 You’re like, people are in the maximum amount of pain when they show up the first time into the gym.
0:32:12 Because for them to have shown up, that means they acknowledge the problem and have walked into your hands.
0:32:13 How hard could it be to sell?
0:32:17 In your case, you actually have a different situation, which is when somebody’s on their way, you know,
0:32:20 back from their vacation that you just booked for them for free.
0:32:22 And they just had an incredible life-changing experience.
0:32:25 It’s probably a good moment to go ask them, how was the trip?
0:32:31 And then see if they, you know, what are they thinking for more trips as well as do they know anyone else that’s looking at this?
0:32:38 Because you’re going to have, you’re going to be riding a momentum, a huge wave of goodwill in that moment because you just, they’re going to be on the high of their vacation.
0:32:40 Planning a vacation is work.
0:32:44 Experiencing and enjoying the vacation, that’s when they’re in the sort of peak state to be able to ask as well.
0:32:49 And on the off-boarding call that Sean’s referencing, if I were getting really tactical with you,
0:32:52 what I would do is when I call them up and say, hey, how was the vacation?
0:32:53 I would ask, do you have any pictures?
0:32:56 Now, they’re going to be like, oh, how do you want to see, right?
0:32:59 And you say, hey, so what friends would you normally send these pictures to?
0:33:07 If you want, if you three-way me, then you can say, hey, I got this whole vacation for free and send it to your friend, just three-way me in, and then you’re rocking and rolling.
0:33:07 Yeah.
0:33:09 Helpful, guys?
0:33:10 Yeah, for sure.
0:33:11 Really.
0:33:14 As I asked my first girlfriend, was that the best eight minutes of your life?
0:33:18 All right, fellas, we’ll see you later.
0:33:19 See you guys.
0:33:20 All right.
0:33:22 Hermozzi Hotline.
0:33:22 Yeah.
0:33:23 All right.
0:33:23 Here we go.
0:33:25 All right.
0:33:28 Caller number nine, you are on air.
0:33:29 What’s your name?
0:33:30 Hello.
0:33:30 Hello.
0:33:31 I’m Davi.
0:33:32 Alex, Sean.
0:33:33 Great to be talking with you.
0:33:33 Davi.
0:33:35 Where are you calling in from, Davi?
0:33:38 From Brooklyn, New York.
0:33:39 All right.
0:33:39 Davi.
0:33:40 Single, married.
0:33:41 Oh, wait.
0:33:41 No, wrong show.
0:33:41 Here we go.
0:33:43 Davi, tell us about what’s going on.
0:33:44 What’s your business?
0:33:58 So, I am a content creator and a little bit different than probably a lot of the businesses that call in because I have a big audience and I have all the traffic and I have absolutely no idea what to sell them.
0:33:59 You need a money model.
0:34:02 You have distribution and no product.
0:34:02 Is that what you’re saying?
0:34:04 I got distribution, no product.
0:34:05 Ah, okay.
0:34:09 And I won the school games last year.
0:34:09 Oh, sick.
0:34:15 And Alex, I met you in May and I was about to ask you the question I was about to ask.
0:34:19 And your assistant came in and said, Alex, you have a wedding.
0:34:19 You need to walk.
0:34:21 That checks out.
0:34:25 It was the last year and then I saw Sean’s tweet yesterday and I was like, you know what?
0:34:29 Dude, if your life was a movie, this is the moment where it comes full circle.
0:34:32 So, what is the question you’ve been waiting a year to ask?
0:34:34 Are you an entertainer or educator?
0:34:34 Real quick.
0:34:37 It leans towards education.
0:34:45 I mean, I make content for college guys and young guys about how to get internships, how to get jobs, how to date, how to manage negative thoughts, how to make money.
0:34:48 Like, it’s really just virtual Big Brother stuff.
0:34:48 Okay.
0:34:55 I have 200 million views, 350,000 followers.
0:34:57 So, a big army of young dudes.
0:34:58 I want to make a big swing of the-
0:34:59 Per what?
0:35:00 Per month, per year, per what?
0:35:03 200 million views over the last two years.
0:35:05 Oh, what are you getting monthly?
0:35:07 Five to 10.
0:35:08 Okay.
0:35:10 And this is TikTok we’re talking about?
0:35:12 TikTok and Instagram.
0:35:12 Yeah.
0:35:13 Okay.
0:35:13 About 500.
0:35:14 Okay.
0:35:15 Okay, go on.
0:35:21 And so, I have this big army of young dudes that I could do a paying community.
0:35:22 I could do a mentorship.
0:35:30 But I think that there’s a bigger play either with maybe employing a lot of them or building an app and launching it across college campuses.
0:35:36 And I just, I’ve been building this audience and I’m not sure what’s the big swing that I should be making here.
0:35:40 Before we start being know-it-alls and telling you what to do, what do you, have you already tried anything?
0:35:45 I mean, I’ve just, I committed to making two or three short form videos a day.
0:35:49 For the last couple of years outside of my day-to-day other pursuit.
0:35:51 So, I haven’t tried much.
0:35:54 What’s your day-to-day other pursuit?
0:36:03 My mom is a physician coach and she was doing 20 or 30K a month and now we’re doing 230 last month.
0:36:09 So, basically, just building high-ticket sales, marketing, fulfillment for burned-out doctors.
0:36:10 Got it.
0:36:12 Well, I’ll tell you a secret.
0:36:17 Burned-out doctors have more pain and more money than broke college guys.
0:36:19 By an order of magnitude.
0:36:20 I know.
0:36:22 I don’t want to keep freaking with my mom.
0:36:22 Okay.
0:36:23 I’m sort of dead.
0:36:24 Yeah.
0:36:31 I mean, if you think there’s not a big, there’s not a big cries here, then maybe I’m barking
0:36:31 up the wrong tree.
0:36:33 The question is, what do you, like, what do you want to have happen?
0:36:37 If you’re like, oh, I think I’ve, so I’ll tell you, I’ll cut, I want to give a little,
0:36:41 a tiny reality check, which is like five to 10 million views a month is not bad.
0:36:43 It’s also not crazy.
0:36:45 So, like, you have enough to do a business for sure.
0:36:47 This isn’t like, I’m sitting on a hundred million dollars.
0:36:49 Like, you’re not getting a dollar review.
0:36:52 I just want to, like, put that, put some perspective there.
0:36:57 Also, your TikTok views are not worth nearly close to what your Instagram views are.
0:37:01 It’s probably a factor of 10 to 20x difference in terms of the value per view.
0:37:02 Okay.
0:37:06 Especially if it’s a little bit more meme, a little bit more humor, anything like that.
0:37:09 It’s just like, you can just, you can just drop it to, through the floor.
0:37:15 Like, education versus entertainment, the, the revenue per, per, per thousand views is
0:37:16 like, it’s huge difference.
0:37:16 Okay.
0:37:18 I just want to just level set there.
0:37:23 So fundamentally, if you’ve got these guys and they want what careers, they want jobs.
0:37:27 Well, it, it’s not like I’m like Mr. Internship.
0:37:32 I’m not saying that I’m the best condo career ever, but they look to me for input on all this
0:37:33 life stuff.
0:37:39 Like whether it’s how to land their first date, how to get an internship, how to whatever.
0:37:42 And I get a bunch of DMS that are like, dude, you spoke the thoughts that were in my brain.
0:37:44 You like, you know me so well.
0:37:48 And I think I’ve built up enough trust with them that if I wanted them to like quit a job
0:37:50 or come work for me or do something.
0:37:51 So that’s why I’m thinking maybe I could build something.
0:37:52 Yeah.
0:37:59 So I’ll, I’ll, um, I’ll give you just a little bit of a continuum that exists for you.
0:37:59 Right.
0:38:04 And this is super common for people who are content creators and it all, the, the, the continuum
0:38:06 exists on, on a risk continuum.
0:38:10 And so on one side, all the way to the end, you have start a business that you’re going
0:38:11 to do everything for.
0:38:11 All right.
0:38:13 That’s like, that’s all the way on the other side.
0:38:15 It takes the most skill, but you have the most risk.
0:38:15 All right.
0:38:19 On the opposite end, you have, I’m going to be affiliate of something, which is, I’m just
0:38:22 going to promote someone else’s stuff and I’m going to get a percentage, right?
0:38:24 That’s the, that’s the other extreme.
0:38:27 Now, next to that, you’ve got sponsorships.
0:38:30 So if I’m really good at that, people start paying me ahead of time and that’s a hundred percent
0:38:31 gross margin.
0:38:34 And it scales as I scale my, my content, which is not necessarily a bad thing.
0:38:38 In the middle, you’ve got partnerships, which is like, okay, I’m going to be the exclusive
0:38:40 guy who promotes this specific thing.
0:38:44 And I’m going to get some shares or get some royalties or whatever it is that I can negotiate
0:38:45 in that deal.
0:38:49 And I’ll just let somebody else run the business while I just continue to promote next to that.
0:38:50 You’ve got white labels.
0:38:51 All right.
0:38:54 So it’s like, okay, I don’t want to, I don’t want to actually run the business, but I do want
0:38:56 to have my own brand and I want to have all the equity.
0:39:00 And then the very last one, which is what I started with, which is like, you own it all,
0:39:01 right?
0:39:04 It’s you, you, you source everything you manufacture if you want to do products.
0:39:07 And so those are kind of like, those are kind of your options right now.
0:39:13 If you wanted to get in the business, now you can de-risk your current thing by a lot by trying
0:39:15 some stuff on the left and seeing how it performs.
0:39:19 So you can basically, you have the luxury of being able to test product market fit before
0:39:20 we’re doing anything.
0:39:26 So you can easily affiliate someone else’s thing, see what the demand looks like.
0:39:28 And if it crushes, then you’re like, oh, I got something here.
0:39:31 And if it doesn’t crush, then you didn’t have to like do all the other shit associated with
0:39:31 that.
0:39:32 Build a business.
0:39:33 Right.
0:39:33 Exactly.
0:39:35 So you have this really nice position that you’re in.
0:39:40 So number one, I would probably work my way from least risky to most risky as I basically
0:39:42 validated whatever thing I want to sell.
0:39:45 And then secondarily for TikTok, I’ll just give you a little hack.
0:39:48 The people who, the people I’ve seen who monetize best off TikTok.
0:39:52 Their, their CTA on TikTok is DM me on Instagram.
0:39:58 And then they work the DMs on Instagram for, for whatever reason, IG just converts way better
0:39:59 to monetize than TikTok does.
0:40:03 So they just drive, they just use TikTok as a traffic platform to send to convert on Instagram.
0:40:05 Got it.
0:40:09 Can you give me an example of some of the things that you would try affiliating for?
0:40:13 Well, so you, you, you said a lot of stuff.
0:40:17 You’re like, you have like dating stuff you have like, you know, which probably gets into
0:40:19 like looks maxing and all that stuff.
0:40:19 I don’t even know.
0:40:22 Then you’ve got like, I want to get a job stuff.
0:40:26 Then you’ve got like biz op stuff, which I’m not like the biggest fan of, but like you could,
0:40:26 you know, whatever.
0:40:31 So like you have a lot of different pieces there.
0:40:35 And then obviously there’s just like services that you can charge for them.
0:40:38 But the thing that I really hate about this particular customer is that they’re broke.
0:40:43 And so the easiest, I mean, I don’t think the idea that you had on starting a school community
0:40:46 is a terrible idea because you can, you can have a very large community.
0:40:49 You can continue to serve them and you can have a low ticket price point.
0:40:53 That’ll kind of like, you can, you can use that as an initial launch pad, build the community
0:40:57 and then be like, basically say like, tell me what you guys want and I’ll do that.
0:40:59 And then you can monetize in the meantime.
0:40:59 Does that make sense?
0:41:00 Yes.
0:41:01 Got it.
0:41:05 So that’s a, that’s an, that’s like the easy, super low risk.
0:41:08 Like doesn’t, doesn’t, if you’re like, Hey man, I want to make a hundred million dollars.
0:41:12 I don’t have a clear path for, from where you’re at right now to get there besides just like
0:41:14 starting as though you didn’t even have the brand you have.
0:41:21 Well, if you had a fleet of loyal guys that maybe you could turn into good salespeople or
0:41:25 turn into ambassadors, or if you had to launch something across college campuses, like if you
0:41:30 had this resource and it was your only foundation to get to a hundred million dollars or $10
0:41:31 million, what would you do?
0:41:34 If you can train a skill, which I didn’t hear, but that you just mentioned that sales
0:41:35 thing.
0:41:40 If you can train a skill exceptionally well, then you can absolutely source and place salespeople
0:41:44 for large door-to-door companies that, and a lot of college guys are willing to just like
0:41:48 relocate after college anyways, and, you know, make six figures a year or six figures in a
0:41:50 summer if they crush it for that.
0:41:54 And those companies are happy to pay, you know, referral fees upon success of those, of those
0:41:55 types of guys.
0:41:59 And if you can develop a long-term reputation as being very, very good at training them, like
0:42:01 you can very easily run cohorts where you say, Hey,
0:42:02 you’re going to fly out to this place.
0:42:03 We’re going to spend a week.
0:42:03 I’m going to train you.
0:42:04 And then after that, you’ll graduate.
0:42:07 And then you’ll go out into the world and be fruitful and multiply.
0:42:12 You could very well charge, you know, probably $5,000 or somewhere in there for people to
0:42:13 come out, learn how to sell.
0:42:16 And then basically you’ll have a bunch of connections from different people that you can
0:42:19 use your own content to go source those relationships with.
0:42:23 So just get like, get a Vivint, get a, you know, get some of the bit, get an alarm system
0:42:27 company, whatever, um, and get those ones to just say, Hey, will you take, take people from
0:42:27 me?
0:42:28 And then you can also make money on both sides there.
0:42:32 That like the best thing that you can do for those guys is use them as the product.
0:42:36 I got a question for you.
0:42:36 Soul searching question.
0:42:40 Are you trying to be a content creator who makes money or are you trying to be an entrepreneur
0:42:42 who uses content to make money?
0:42:42 Wow.
0:42:43 That’s a great question.
0:42:44 Gut instinct.
0:42:46 You can change your mind later, but just gut instinct.
0:42:48 When I said that, what, which one did your heart go towards?
0:42:49 You have to fully commit to this for life.
0:42:53 Um, I want to be an entrepreneur.
0:42:54 You want to be an entrepreneur.
0:42:55 Great.
0:43:00 So I think the constraints of what business can I start using this TikTok audience for
0:43:02 this customer is actually not serving you at all.
0:43:06 It’s just me thinking, what business do I want to be in where I see an opportunity and
0:43:08 I feel passionate about solving it.
0:43:12 And I’m going to flex my content muscles probably as one of my growth levers to do that.
0:43:16 And this, all this did was, this was the gym where I was working out and building
0:43:19 that muscle, but I didn’t build it to use it in the gym.
0:43:20 I built it to use it in the real world somewhere else.
0:43:23 And so I think that sometimes you have to pick the constraint properly.
0:43:28 The constraint of using it in this business, using it, using your current TikTok audience
0:43:28 is not the right one.
0:43:30 The other thing I would do is I would try to get real.
0:43:36 So not only is a certain number of views different per platform, but just as a simple
0:43:37 test, right?
0:43:42 If you went to a college campus, if you just put on TikTok and put on Instagram, Hey, I’m
0:43:43 going to be at Penn state.
0:43:46 If you want to come hang out, I’m going to be at this place from this hour to this hour.
0:43:48 How many people do you think would show up at Penn state?
0:43:50 Probably between 10 and a hundred.
0:43:51 10 and a hundred.
0:43:51 Okay.
0:43:52 That’s a pretty big spread.
0:43:54 I think you should go try it.
0:43:56 I would be surprised if the number was a hundred.
0:43:58 I’d be shocked if it was a hundred.
0:43:59 I’d be surprised if it was even 10.
0:44:03 And the reason I say that is because the way that the nature of TikTok and the nature of
0:44:05 short form content is that they’re not loyal to you.
0:44:07 They’re loyal to the feed and you might show up from time to time.
0:44:13 And so the reason to do that is to basically, um, wash away your tie and your connection,
0:44:17 your, your invisible sunk cost to, but I’ve already built this audience because actually
0:44:20 what you’re, what you built was the muscle of short form content.
0:44:24 You probably haven’t built an army of people who like, listen, and trust you.
0:44:26 Like you will get more views.
0:44:29 Let’s say on this, on your TikTok than I will get on my podcast.
0:44:32 But if I tweet something out that I’m going somewhere for my podcast, I’ll get people there
0:44:34 because I spend hundreds of hours in their ears.
0:44:35 It’s a different level of connection.
0:44:39 And so I say all this to just say, if you really want to be an entrepreneur, break out
0:44:42 of that, to that constraint of how do I sell these college dudes who I’ve been entertaining
0:44:44 with random TikToks about random shit.
0:44:48 Um, and what’s the best business I can build in that tiny, tiny box to be like, just get
0:44:50 out of the box and then build the best business you can.
0:44:51 And I bet you’d kick ass that way.
0:44:55 Cause you seem like you’re somebody who’s pretty high agency and pretty kick ass, but don’t
0:44:57 constrain your, don’t tie one hand behind your back.
0:45:00 Davey, I’ll, I’ll soften what, uh, Sean said, which is normally not my role.
0:45:05 Um, but I, what you can use the brand for, let’s say you don’t sell to this audience and
0:45:07 you don’t sell them as the product either.
0:45:10 Let’s say you just say like, I did this thing and I learned this skill.
0:45:13 You can still use it to recruit for whatever business you want.
0:45:15 And that is actually still a massive W.
0:45:16 So you can just skim up.
0:45:18 You say you’ve got these guys who are super low and want to work.
0:45:19 It’s like great work for me.
0:45:19 Yeah.
0:45:20 Cool.
0:45:21 Yeah.
0:45:22 I appreciate it.
0:45:23 All right.
0:45:23 Awesome, brother.
0:45:24 Appreciate you.
0:45:24 Thanks for calling in.
0:45:25 Appreciate you guys.
0:45:26 Thanks.
0:45:26 All right.
0:45:27 Awesome.
0:45:28 There we go.
0:45:29 All right.
0:45:31 That’s a wrap on the Hormozy Hotline.
0:45:35 I feel like I can rule the world.
0:45:37 I know I could be what I want to.
0:45:40 I put my all in it like my days off.
0:45:42 On the road, let’s travel.
0:45:42 Never looking back.
0:45:46 My friends, if you like MFM, then you’re going to like the following podcast.
0:45:48 It’s called Billion Dollar Moves.
0:45:53 And of course, it’s brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the number one audio destination
0:45:55 for business professionals.
0:45:56 Billion Dollar Moves.
0:45:58 It’s hosted by Sarah Chen Spelling.
0:46:01 Sarah is a venture capitalist and strategist.
0:46:05 And with Billion Dollar Moves, she wants to look at unicorn founders and funders.
0:46:08 And she looks for what she calls the unexpected leader.
0:46:13 Many of them were underestimated long before they became huge and successful and iconic.
0:46:17 She does it with unfiltered conversations about success, failure, fear, courage, and all
0:46:18 that great stuff.
0:46:22 So again, if you like My First Million, check out Billion Dollar Moves.
0:46:24 It’s brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network.
0:46:26 Again, Billion Dollar Moves.