Summary and Insights
ls, lad germs. Happy New Year. Happy New Year.
. Welco nother episode of The Tim Ferriss Show. To kick things off
re-rele y most recent conversation with Greg McKeown. I’ll explain who
recorde at the end of 2024. I’ve had it super helpful. I’ve revisited
. And i ant to get grounded, centered for the new year, focused,
ractica . How to get centered when life feels destabilizing, using
from co to clarity, personal quarterly off-sites, pre-mortem systems
g one-t es into repeatable rules, defining done so your work doesn’t expand
ne-two- ethod for having a successful day, and it goes on and on. There’s
who is reg McKeown, M-C-K-E-O-W-N. You can find him on X, at Gregory
hor of York Times bestsellers, Essentialism, The Disciplined Pursuit
hlighte book in hundreds of places, and that is what led me to ultimately
nd his book, Effortless, Make It Easier to Do What Matters Most. And these
togethe we certainly dip in and out of a lot of the key concepts
. He’s speaker, host of the Greg McKeown podcast, founder of the Essentialism
nts fro to 100 countries. And 200,000 people receive his weekly One Minute
r, and lso the creator of the Essentialism Planner. So he’s done a lot. This
you ple chew on and take away and apply. So happy new year, everyone. I hope
yours easant surprises. And now let’s get to the episode. Enjoy.
can ru out for a half mile before my hands start shaking.
, it co a calamity, it could just be something destabilizing, could
you ce urself so that you don’t just end up feeling like you’re in
? Becau very good at getting things done, even when I’m
g a lot moil. But the last handful of days have been very, very
‘t have into specifics, but this is a close loved one. And a lot of the
e going l on me to figure things out. It’s also the holidays, right? So the
t a hol cannot get a hold of. And I recognize that fretting over it does not
t makes makes my day less peaceful and enjoyable. And I’ll make a reference
er conv ns, which may have been on the record, may have been behind the
, I’m p ure that you mentioned a piece of artwork called The Listener,
h is th of centered, calm person. And I have it up on my wall at home with
g commo d chaos around him. And in the center, he’s just perfectly centered
ose my n is, how do you help get yourself closer to that depiction of the
ealize, here may be a lot of chaos around me, there may be a lot of chaos in
I’m med , like meditating like twice a day. It’s helpful. It doesn’t seem to
d maybe swer is, look, you sit with it. This is just something you’re going
So don a problem out of a problem in a sense. But I’m curious what you
in thos mstances. I think I can respond that I don’t think it’s just
d I’m p tation and I’m certainly pro prayer. But the thing I want to say
ishing se outside of us and the noise inside of us, because they are two
nd I wa ort of share a story and then illustrate the action that comes
his las r, I was back in England. I’m doing this doctorate at the University
o part requirement of that is to have residency every year there.
felt re stabilized while I was there. And it wasn’t the doctorate that I don’t
larly m rt of why. It’s because my best friend of 35 years, Sam Bridgestock,
And th en a long time coming. We’ve known that that would happen. But facing it
rson. B asn’t even just that, because it wasn’t like I didn’t know before. It wasn’t
new und ing of the truth or the reality. It was, I actually, for a while, I couldn’t
s. But realized, oh, he has so much mindshare about the reality of my whole life.
hen I w ears old. And those years, those developmental years, I mean,
riendsh it was so stabilizing to me at the time to have a relationship
onest. I’m completely frank, at a little bit of a risk in a way, but
that d rioritize that for a whole series of complex reasons.
minent tain loss of him, it’s like, my goodness, my whole sense of reality is
‘s not en though this is a loss of such a friendship and so on, it tapped
s whole of what is true and who do you go to to validate that? And do I have
se of t be able to navigate this? Because he was the one I would go
this i s happening. This is the reality. This is the situation in those most
ps. And ea of like, oh, I won’t be able to go to him. It destabilized
erent l nd all human systems have these levels, right? From the surface,
fe, sha nd then you go further closer and closer, like to say that the
ems at e are things that are so meaningful that they are inherently
able. B to mess with them, to tweak them even, I mean, the opportunity is
hat’s w ssive transformational change happens. But if it gets shaken by something,
it’s th quake because the tectonic plate of truth inside of you is getting
er you’ ing a clearer sense of what is true. And that’s all contextual
m your cription, if you’re using language of destabilization,
er is h g externally isn’t just reverberating at the surface or the middle,
ing rea p. And so of course, then that changes everything.
ame way . Everything has been injected with some sort of degree of
want t back to this idea of just meditating, the idea of just sitting with
are mo ly meditative than I am may say, well, no, no, that practice
to do. ound this summer, and I find in general, I need to write it out
e of th s I try to teach our children about. There’s all kinds of prayer.
f writi eam it out. Cry it out. Whatever it is, it’s like it doesn’t have to
ersion . A little example of this was given to me, somebody that I had on my
arted a siness. And that destabilized it, not all the way to the core, but
she’s w p. She doesn’t have a set income as before. And she wakes up at like
, just at. Just what have I done? Just super stressed.
ing thi ng.
it.
but vis .
But the c is similar. And what she did, she did it all spontaneously,
etty am But what she did, she grabbed a sheet of paper.
have be berate that she grabbed a sheet of paper rather than a book,
planne use she wanted to scream onto the page. She wanted to do it with
t, with areness, conscious awareness. I’m going to throw this thing away.
see th o one else has to see it.
had mo n impermanent implication than a journal where you can’t tear
ely to out and toss it. This is like, all right, I’m going to scribble
nd then the act.
was int g because without her intent, what she experienced in just a few
e went, this is my restate of what she experienced, but she went from confusion
natura o creation without meaning to do that. And I thought that that was
hat was eresting in her case study is that she didn’t wake up going,
ate a p what to do in these circumstances. She just went,
d and i overwhelming. The emotions are so much, I have to give it somewhere.
scream o the page, of letting it all out, separating ourselves from that
ternal I think is extremely powerful because I think it helps us to go from
r. And om observer, I think once we start observing, we’re better able to become
nk that shift.
nder th e best practices are like brushing your teeth. And I know this,
my use thing that sounds very similar, which would be morning pages.
le sinc done it. I picked up a new habit, this meditation, and there are only
the mor ight? So it’s tough to do a 27-step boot up, especially if you have
ities. meditation came in, other things went out. One of them was the morning
e, but orgotten that was in my toolkit. And this is a very good reminder
hen in kind of go back to the fundamentals. Maybe it’s something that you’ve
esn’t n ily have to be a brand new shiny thing. And in this case,
ight. W monkey mind is just running in circles, trying to think my way
oing to pful. It is just a fruitless labor.
I reme is summer, because I happened to be doing the research,
he page y for like, I don’t know, a couple of hours. And I don’t know
was us r the research or for a future book or so on. It was too raw for any
initely to get it all out. And I thought when I looked at it all afterwards,
u know, Allen says, yeah, your mind is a bad office. It’s good at all sorts
that so omplex organization on its own. And when I looked at the page of all
ught, y at’s way, way too much for the ram of my mind to be able to
ike lay layers of complexity and intensity that needs to step over
at it than trying to live in it. One additional little thing I learned
n in th that I was mentioning is a term I had never heard before,
e elabo And what that is, is when you ask a question, we’ve all had this
asks yo stion, it is impossible not to think about it. And that’s a
ng to l out somehow our cognitive inheritance, because it means if you give
nd then bout it, it’s like your mind can’t help but go there.
I used stinctive elaboration when I felt overwhelmed, not in the
bilizat t a very intense last 30 days, you know, with family wedding,
ls, the en the holidays, Christmas, two birthdays, and that’s just the normal
the st t’s been going on. So it’s been this really intense period.
time I ting down, my journal is finished, it’s over the holidays,
going as like, I can’t just go and grab another one. I thought I had
have i I really felt strangely stuck. Of course, there’s so many
but wh feel frozen or stuck with things, you’re not thinking in that
litera d like an AI tool and I sort of raged into that. Like, okay,
his que What is going on? Just download the what is happening in your life.
re of w what? Now what? What is happening? Let’s just get it out. And then
okay, n ? What’s the news? What does this mean? Because we’re all meaning
izing e ces. What they’re really doing is they’re messing with our sense of
tion. A hen now what is, well, what do I do about it? And I just download,
corded then sent the recording. It was like, okay, what do you make of
really that much from it, but the restate it gave me back was so helpful.
fe in p ive and helped me go, oh, of course, that’s why you’re feeling all
d it ev me some quite, I would say, reasonably advanced suggestions of what
audio
se?
a good ent because that’s something you can do kind of in between,
ng arou .
rip an ‘s no downside to it.
le of t ere’s a good little prompt to give to that is, I didn’t do it
I’ve a before to respond as Carl Rogers would. Carl Rogers was the
really than anyone else, introduced into therapeutic processes, the idea of
athic l g. There’s been two studies that were done about Rogerian
I thin ke 1980-something, and then again in like 2000-something, I can find
tionnai sent both times, a huge number of psychologists, who’s the most
ogist i otherapy? And both times they identified Carl Rogers as the most
r view their practice. I think that’s pretty amazing because, you know,
s a lot ttention, but in practice, what works is what Carl Rogers did.
he’s s s similar to what we’ve been talking about. He says,
ally li me, he says, whenever someone really listens to me,
process fe starts to make more sense. You know, the dots start to connect for
at they ing to do that for me. It’s just the nature of the process of being
And so the one that sort of really invented the language of empathic restating
to prac nd the whole idea, I think, is that you are de-layering the stuff that
e. Wher what normally happens in conversation, even everyday conversation,
mething ople just immediately give advice. I mean, within just instantly,
hat’s g inside of you. You don’t even know what’s going on inside of you.
eady gi vice and suggestions and adding confusion. And I think
ss and of judgment and all of those things. Whereas in what he found was
isten d nough, and he said, it takes a lot of courage to do this.
d, most cannot do it. We just don’t have the courage to listen
e are, ate back to them and we just keep doing it, we’ll go deeper and deeper
es. And sense of like people in the end kind of almost heal themselves
to unde what’s happening inside of them. Well, I’ve played around with using
at back nd forwards relationship communication. And actually, I found
anced a able to do it. So I think it can be a very helpful tool.
. Well, for that detour off of our planned programming. I appreciate that.
to our rs and we’ll be right back to the show.
ld dog, the early 2000s, back in the day when I was running my
ness, t s were atrocious. They tried hard, but man, was it bad. You had to
stuff r. I could only dream of a platform like Shopify. Shopify is the
ehind m of businesses around the world. And now 10% of all e-commerce in the
Now ba he early 2000s, then nobody even thought of AI. Who could have
he last ths, the magic that is now possible with AI? Shopify has been ahead of
are pac h helpful AI tools that will accelerate everything, write product
headlin n enhance your product photography. Best of all, Shopify expertly
from ma inventory to international shipping to processing returns and
eady to you’re ready for Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and
at sho m slash Tim. One more time, that’s shopify.com slash Tim. In 2026,
art sel th Shopify. Creatine isn’t just for muscle. It’s essential
brain, ody, and long-term performance. For me, I have Alzheimer’s and
family ognitive benefits are the reason I take creatine every single day.
sponso ntus, is the gold standard in creatine. There’s a lot of BS floating
e them. ecause they source Crea Pure Creatine, the purest, most effective
e avail o if you’ve been curious about creatine, this is your moment to get
y it fo irst time. Momentus is also now introducing the Momentus
h chew s one gram of pure Crea Pure Creatine monohydrate. I was skeptical of
like, I r going to use these. It turns out that I use them all the time.
nient. y are NSF certified for sports. So you get the gold
hout al ess. Head to livemomentus.com and use code TIM for up to 35%
rder. W t we then begin at the beginning? We are just about to head into
w year. lot of people are thinking ahead with aspirations, goals, hopes,
ion. An e we get into the bucket of tricks, strategies and tactics and so on,
eople w t have much context on your background. Could you briefly explain
s and a ortless, the titles of two of your books respectively? And I’ve thought
, one i to do, the other is how to do it, but that’s not going to give people
etting. ld you mind just taking a moment to explain what the sort of main
re conc these two?
word w focus. Effortless in one word would be simplification. Another way of
essent is figuring out what the right thing is to do and effortless is
ht way. e of the reasons that I wrote both books was because I’d covered some
n essen . But as I’ve traveled around and taught this now, you know,
plus or ions around the world over the last decade, almost nobody got the
n thoug in there, some of it’s in there. Yeah. I know the feeling.
ake res lity for this, but it’s like people heard the first mindset shift
And I hey’re both just as important, just as powerful.
in esse m is, so essentialism has three elements to it. Explore,
Explor s essential as opposed to non-essential, as opposed to the trivial
at are al few things that make all the difference? Exploring that and
hen eli is to actually delete the non-essentials, to remove them. It’s not
what m what’s essential in your life, in your year, in your day. You actually
the stu ‘s getting in the way of those essentials. And then execute is literally
tless a ble to do what matters most. So in there, there’s these two shifts.
al and te the non-essentials. And then once you’ve arrived at that state or in an
ally, y hen saying, okay, well, how do I set up systems? How do I organize
y that ential things happen?
y or yo t day?
hardes
and I’ mmend both books to everybody. Essentialism is one of my most
books t ave. Effortless is similar. And it’s the discipline pursuit of less.
mind, at to do. That is effectiveness would be essentialism. And then
would ciency, is effortless. And I think for myself, if I’m
past y think I’ve been very good at identifying the essential. And
. I hav over-exerting. I have been efforting my way
se esse hings by subconsciously over-complicating them or
sary co ion and obstacles because there is that mantra that was ingrained
, which it’s important and it’s not hard, you are not trying hard enough.
oise, i im to be surgical, there’s nothing wrong with
So let into new year, new you type of discussion. A lot of folks listening
like a challenge, a 60-day reboot, whatever it might be. But you have a
ugh whi look at pegging dates and thinking about these types of landmarks.
on tha se?
n the l re is temporal landmarks. So what almost everybody is familiar
the new new you, we all experienced that. Oh, it’s a new chance.
n this inguishing is it’s like any moment that allows you to distinguish
f. And is is a really helpful cognitive malleability that you have
e an ex become a new version of me, to upgrade myself. So the new year,
y a cha people to do that. It gets a bad name in some sense because people say,
ys, oh, who here has set new year’s resolutions? And then by the 7th of
doing ymore. And I actually think people are really wrong to say
frame that. What we just need is more temporal landmarks so that we say,
ght thi d if it was seven days, well, that was great because that was seven
ave don wise. How else can you select meaningful sort of tagging fresh start
se your ay is a chance to do that, but so could the anniversary. And so could
day or d your child’s birthdays. You can have the first day of the
an addi four. And so identifying meaningful dates, and this is more
ea. And k people would themselves know if they’ve experienced this in
this is You want to increase the number of these you have in 2025 so
of what ed the fresh start effect. You want lots of fresh start effects
etting new you. So I think, yeah, celebrate. If it’s seven days,
weeks i uary, you’re doing that new thing, fantastic. Build in the next one.
ningful f the year? And that’s your next chance to be able to have an
pon som I think all of us are prisoners to the way our mind currently works.
until me observers to it. So I think these temporal landmarks are a chance
oursel it. And the moment we get into that observer role,
ast is ell, it might feel a little esoteric to say this, but
serving That’s the real you. And that observer is not so full of pain,
usion. erver is actually really clear. And so anytime you can use different
that, we can break down projects and anchor them to meaningful dates,
ines, b ingful dates, I think is a good accelerating, encouraging way of
ear.
t I’ve addition to pegging things to dates, I’ve done this somewhat,
ly, the al landmarks is creating landmarks that are effectively tests
trying ove. So I will have, and I already have two or three of these
, which et’s just say, three to 10 day events, which could be a meditation
e somet ry physical at altitude that’s going to require types of fitness
cultiv ause I find them boring. But if I go on this trip with close friends
snuff, y will I suffer, I will be ridiculed and have my balls busted
ends wh d exactly do that. And by having these, I don’t want to say final exams,
t are i to be enjoyable, but they’re only going to be enjoyable if I do the
It bui a lot of incentive and insurance that I will behave myself on some
know I do. Let’s hop into, doesn’t have to be rapid fire, but I want to give
differe epts and tools that they can hopefully contemplate using. And I’ll let
order t to tackle these. Personal quarterly offsite, which is something that
inated ur toolkit. I’ve been fascinated by that for a while. So the personal
the pow hour or half an hour, and then the one, two, three method. Where would
t? That I think is good, actually. The personal quarterly offsite,
nceptua a second, it’s speed over direction. Because we live in a time
to have would describe as counterfeit agility. So you’re moving fast,
fe is f d you’re taking messages, you’re sending messages, you’re doing
y they dd up to a lot of progress towards what matters.
meter i usand directions.
irectio at you don’t want.
That’s The metaphor to go with it, right? You could say, well,
k 90% o ime. It only gets to where it’s supposed to get to at the right
djustin antly. So it’s, what is the forcing function in our lives to make
o far o k and then find, oh my goodness, it’s been five years that I’ve gone
really ldn’t have even been on this journey.
was goi rizona. I’m in North Korea. What happened?
. That e a moment, wouldn’t it? And so personal quarterly offsite,
e it al ay literally. I mean, Anna and I have done this where we’ll travel
ke a we r take a few days possibly and really talk big picture.
ee main ons that I think need to be addressed in a personal quarterly offsite,
re than three, but this is the core of it is one, what are the essential
nderinv in? The second question is what are the non-essential things
in? An perhaps not surprisingly, how can we make it as effortless as possible
that sh hin this next 90 days? Now there’s more sub-questions to it than
hat’s t ion that is so important to identify clearly. And so it doesn’t
as thi h. I mean, I think you could still make meaningful progress in an hour
or with e else. I like doing it with an accountability partner, but even there,
actice fill out this process, you answer these questions yourself,
n you b em together and start talking and get into not negotiation exactly,
workin gh things. And I think that’s one of the primary benefits of a
offsite lly facing the reality that all of us are lost. All of us are
directi l we pause, think about it, get clear again. I do not feel like I’m
st or b t applying these ideas in one sense than anybody else, certainly not
hink I o it faster than maybe the average person. And I think that’s the key.
xample ally a real example, but it doesn’t have to be, but particularly number
he, wha essential that you’re under-investing in? I’m sure I could sit
hat. Wh n-essential that you’re over-investing in? I think I could also come
How can ke it as effortless or make it effortless to make the trade-off? That is
ts the o I would love to hear an example perhaps of how you’ve navigated that
gated. d do it with me or with you right now. I’m game to try it. We’ll see
operate I’m happy to give it a shot. Okay. So let’s just ask these questions
Let’s a little essentialist intervention. Maybe I shouldn’t
et’s tr ure. Well, let’s do it for the whole year. What are candidates for
ential u feel like you’ve been under-investing in? I think what I’ve been
last m hich is something that I need to invest in in almost the most literal
somethi we’ll have a payoff in the long term as it compounds, is physical
g for t and glutes and lower back. Because I’ve had this chronic pain for,
two yea s probably longer, with these brief windows of respite. And
of time I was doing this training very consistently and having intermittent
about, ust call it a month ago, I had a injection in a very particular
the ba tremendously. And I could give a litany of excuses, family,
nd vari ngs. I have been neglecting that, in part because I’m having this
om the ack pain. So it’s not an immediate pressing issue, but I know it will
ay that t’s something essential that I’m under-investing in, even though I
g this lar training as soon as we finish this recording. So it hasn’t
arena. ‘s something that I’ve been inconsistent with that I know is
ell-bei t’d be one. Well, first of all, it’s a great example because
hat’s e l that you’re under-investing in, there are some really predictable
them i inly will be health-related, fitness-related. It’s something
bout, t ir conscience is already tapping them about. But what I have learned
of inv ioritization, which is, I literally believe now that the most important
at any ime is the least likely thing to get done.
with wh e and what I’ve experienced at points. Why do you think that is?
reasons ause it’s so important, the risk of failing at it is much
g else life. So it adds to this procrastination feeling.
.
ce anxi und that important thing because doing something about it shows that
ht show yeah.
d now w back to the beginning on this thing that’s so high stakes.
mportan hing is, the more vulnerable it is. So then you want to avoid,
ld, tha ge is a virtue, but courage always feels terrible. I mean,
ing. It like you imagine when you see other people being courageous.
‘t exis ut the prerequisite of fear. It’s you feel fear and you do the thing
t the f courage as a word and concept doesn’t apply.
re’s lo ayers of reasons that add onto that. One is sort of
sm that procrastination. Well, unless I’m going to do this perfectly,
m reall to do this, unless I’m in the perfect situation,
do it full amount of time. So all of these additional rules.
set up, lly set myself up to fail with the number of checkboxes,
ngth. A e’re talking about this, just in terms of, I’m skipping to the end,
er two, I’m sure I’ve got plenty, but in terms of making it effortless,
I’ve d s in other areas too. It’s just scale it down, right? Don’t
on. If minutes, it’s 10 minutes instead of an hour,
of zer he calendar in terms of missed training sessions. It’s like,
ive min t’s got to be five minutes, but like 60 can be the ideal,
wed is
um and . Like it’s a lower bar, but also the higher bar,
h. And hear you say, oh, well, an hour would be perfect. Or I think
d. I fe whelmed for you. Literally. I’m like an hour that is,
I can’ n hour of physical therapy, even though I’m sure there
be doi And so I like the term microburst for this. That’s an environmental
e these that are just these 10 minute storms are microburst,
g a tim 10 minutes. And the key is that you end at the end of the 10
t you’r the discipline for. And you say, okay, I’m going to do that 10
inutes. en it hits 10 minutes, I’m done. So that the next day, you know,
I real end when it says so. And therefore I’ll carry it on. There’s just
e appli of that. I was just reflecting on this as I was finishing this
get the ne. You know, this is like in January, that will be 14 years
urnal. on’t think I’ve missed a day. I might’ve done, you know,
t all, on’t think I have. But the reason is because my upper bound,
d was f tences and my lower bound was one sentence. And what normally
ls is t t opposite. First day, people write three pages. And by day two,
o, beca day two, they’re like, I don’t have an hour for this.
, I’ll omorrow. And then day three, now they got to do two hours in
it’s ov re they’ve begun. So I think that’s one key thing for you is the 10
it 10 m until I have done 10 days in a row. I’m doing 10 minutes. It’s way,
at litt , than to not do any because you want to do it perfectly.
dvice.
nk ther many things that you could do to make this
t is a book, could be a podcast, but it could be a book or some other
that yo going to get to listen to or a movie, you know, fun show.
me I ge tch that is the 10 minutes that I’m going to do this. And so you
‘ve gon gh so many classics this year because while I’m running,
rcise, ‘m traveling, I’m listening to some of the greatest literature
t almos like I’m, it is like cheat code. I’m cheating the system.
sdom an edge and entertainment poured into me while I’m doing
eally a ng two for the price of one. And so that’s another way to do it.
d have ng function where if you don’t do it, we’ve heard these things before,
it, th have to pay a certain amount to a charity or to a political
choosin ou can create these forcing function bets. I had somebody who
ly impo rade-off they were trying to make and their penalty for not making
be the rite wine was $300 bottle is some, I don’t know wine, but, and
ur down ass of it if he didn’t complete it on this day. And that was his
nd that painful for him that it really gave him an excuse. I mean,
but an to be on track and to be consistent. So I mean, there’s all sorts of
do. Eve ublicly is talking about it here. Okay. Well now everybody knows. I
things try to stack the decks in your favor and to try to remove those
harder t needs to be. Yeah. I mean, I’m, I’m already thinking about a few
s very but for instance, you know, I’m staying due to the circumstances
ff. I’m home. I’m staying in hotels and I need to travel to a location and sign
and so t to do any of this. And so it’s like, all right, look, I’ve
budget uld just go out later today, get a reasonably thick yoga mat and
tel roo n’t actually need anything else. And currently because it’s a
an’t do would intend to do because it’ll be brutally unpleasant on the
ike tha olvable problem, right?
rying t of stack effortless ideas. One does not have to do any of these things.
key. H ou make it effortless? I mean, okay. In a hotel, somebody
o do th you. Like you could find somebody to pay to do it. And that all
h, cham ype of solution, but it’s like, well, that also makes it effortless.
ng to a question and giving your brain enough time to do a Google search
lutions think there’s such a insecure overachiever, there’s such a pushback
ind. We t’s the easy solution? Oh no, no, that can’t be it. That we
e searc ke place. Yeah. Well also as the insecure achiever, which is a label
nd of w ‘ve been talking, that probably characterized me pretty well.
‘re bot is. Yeah. These achiever types often have a
in any of ways because they are good at solving problems. So the inclination
I do X? at’s not how the sentence needs to start, right? The sentence
do thi es me? Or who knows? Maybe Instacart could go get me a yoga mat,
ecessar e to be, you know, Claude the Butler. I’m not suggesting that it’s like,
e my se ry hovercraft down to Scrooge McDuck’s office and we’ll take some gold
imming ut reframing and rephrasing the questions that you habitually ask
omethin try to pay attention to. But my go-to is typically like,
‘s goin ke me too long to get somebody up to speed on all this bullshit.
o it my ow can I do this as easily as possible? But that still presents a
lly in rrent day of automation, getting someone else or someone else
a reta s-a-vis an app to do something like this is available to almost anyone
this p practically speaking.
arren B described it this way. He said, to be alive today in the developed
e oppor more means, more chances for learning and for travel and so on
d. And s such a good reframe for me because you’re talking about
e so ma to make things happen now. And almost all of us do have access to
‘m not to minimize this. It’s the way of thinking that’s outdated.
utter i execution ability in our societies are really pretty unbelievable right
e more worth considering here. One of the principles in effortless is the
sh and t in a shorter period of time. And that’s one of the things you
at’s th sh version, but you’re saying the yoga mat. And I think, well,
that w ut you could also use something else. It doesn’t have to be a yoga
me toda . I’m being, if we wanted to scale that down to dirty prototype,
ll, let t grab some of the towels or something else. And it’s going to
n the a it’s better than nothing, right? It’s better than doing a zero.
to our rs and we’ll be right back to the show.
, for t few years, I’ve been sleeping on a midnight Luxe mattress from
lix Sle lso have one in the guest bedroom downstairs and feedback from friends
tastic. omething they comment on without any prompting from me whatsoever.
a chan est the Helix Sunset Elite. The Sunset Elite delivers exceptional
ng the upport in the right spots. It is made with five tailored foam layers,
yer wit perimeter zoned lumbar support right where I need it,
ith pre am and micro coils that create a soft contouring feel.
night s ial, fast, free shipping, and a 15-year warranty. So check it all
n get 2 anything on their website, so site-wide. So just go to helixsleep.com
time, eep.com slash Tim. With Helix, better sleep starts now.
e. My b ling card game, Coyote, which I made with the amazing team at
just wo op Insider Best Geeky Game of 2025 and also Best Stocking Filler
s Toy A 025. It is on sale everywhere. It’s cheap. It’s fast to learn. It has 4.8
ple are it. CoyoteGame.com will take you to all the retailers, but you can find it
game o ing fast and laughing faster. Thinks charades, meets hot potato, meets a
It’s g your head. It’s perfect for families with kids age 10 plus or adults
rt or d ke themselves too seriously. A lot of adults love this game.
availa rywhere. Amazon, Walmart, Target, 8,000 plus retail locations,
ase che ut. I loved making it. People are really enjoying it. It has 300 or 400
views play online. And try it. Enjoy it this holiday season. Check it out.
more t at’s CoyoteGame.com or anywhere you buy your games. Now, back to the episode.
your t on doing a pre-mortem because I have found that this seems to be something
a bit o ht to. And the reason I bring it up is I think a lot of people
t befor ouchdown, so to speak. And that’s because they don’t think about
. And t e lots of questions maybe they’ve answered, right? And I just came from
We were ng earlier today before recording where we talked about where have we
now? Wh we want to be? We covered a lot of that ground. But one of the
idn’t r hink about as much, we did maybe in some nominal way ask, like,
ers? Bu dn’t explicitly ask, you know, what are the most likely things to
g there ng where we want to go? And that’s something I really want to
ich I’v intermittently, but maybe you could just lay out what that looks like
asping mple that I’m giving. But what is this pre-mortem?
to mak al progress on what’s essential, then using a strategic narrative
way to ut this. I just did a session like this with the leadership of the
s wasn’ nly thing that we did, but this was part of it, was to not to write
here ha been? Where are you now? Where do you want to be? And then this fourth
e focus what is going to keep us from doing it? What’s stopping us? What’s
you hav f these commanders and above drawing, and then we’re looking at all
awing’s st, it’s not just to be fun or gimmick. It’s another forcing function
It’s ea ide behind numbers and too many words and too many bullet points.
te an i t forces a certain part of your brain to light up. And so they did
it ena to do to look at, in this case, an image of what’s going to keep you
outcom at, first of all, it becomes tangible so that you can actually
that m t really be the issue. That is a thought that you have, but that
outdat ght. That’s not really what it is based on an assumption.
ecute i e you try to solve that obstacle. You need to say, well,
tacle? just the way we’ve been doing it in the past? How have we
Every ation, every single organization follows a predictable pattern
ng. Eve ety does the same thing. There’s a brilliant book written about this
alled t apse of complex societies in which he says, look, all societies
use the problems that add too much complexity. And then there’s no mechanism
omplexi r than failure. The most fragile state for society in his analysis
all of sources you have available to maintain the current level of complexity.
n’t mat t the next massive problem is. He studied all these dozens of
that h lapsed and one’s for famine and one’s because of war and one’s because
mean, e use looks different, but he’s like, they’re the same thing.
assive and you don’t have any resources to handle it.
to do o ‘ve asked the question, what’s getting in the way is to just
I thin s getting the way? Is that really the problem? And it’s back to this
h the p not the solution and high performance people and high performance
this ca t high performing commanders and major commanders, I mean,
xecute. e the elite of the elite at being able to make something happen.
how do allenge that strength so that you first go, have we identified
Is this the issue? Why do we think this is the thing? Why do we think this
ay? Tha lly non-trivial part of the thought process. If you really think
nd unlo real issue, which as I say, most people with the curse of competence
not pr ng it. Then of course, now you’re saying, okay, well, we really
e obsta do think this is the problem. Then it’s really creating a lot of buffer
the une , to know that things will come up. I mean, your example that we’ve
sation ight? Like, let’s say, I assume two months ago, you didn’t know this
. And h is, and it’s having all this effect. And it’s like, we don’t know what
, but I anybody, almost any amount of money that they will have such things
t they’ yet prepared for. If you think about the future as only perfect best
are set urself up for really frustrating, stressful, poor execution.
, you t re, like, I think of Phelps, think about Phelps process.
ating t h, Bob Bowman and Phelps, effectively their strategic narrative,
they d terally do it, but drawing out where they’ve been, where they want
et in t The list is a long list, longer than I realized, because of course,
any tim lite level. Well, what really can get in the way at the Olympics
r compe No, they’ve got a long and complex identification of possible
e thing they said, which was interesting to me when I talked to Bob about
, the c ns in China or in any Olympics is that they will be worse than the
d to tr in. That never occurred to me before, because I just sort of
aordina know, you just assume that the athletes are having great experiences,
a. And ke, that’s never how it is. It’s always much more chaotic. There’s
oblems, , the conditions aren’t ideal. So his goal was, how can I make
s norma ssible in really abnormal circumstances?
gs that o, okay, they have a set routine so that he’s there two hours
That’s f buffer, especially for me, who can be quite time blind. You know,
ust sho ght at the time or a couple of minutes late, two hours ahead of time.
ter wha ns, you have buffer now. They’re in the pool following a normal routine
normal though everything’s abnormal. So they’re doing the same thing until 45
s on th ge table, never lies down because it’s routine. You routinize
routini n he comes to the call time, he sits down, puts a towel next to him on
es on t r so that no one can sit next to him. You just don’t need another
other t u can control in the routine. He’s listening to the same music
the boa ump off. He’s getting on always from the left-hand side,
ore he there. All of this is as a result of having identified previously
come u if you do it in this sequence, then you’ve mitigated all those
When h s to jump into the pool, he flaps his arms in a very particular
time. just the physical preparation in advance. He also had mental
es that ed, for example, for 10 years before the Beijing Olympics, he is
ry morn d to put in the videotape. You can see how long it’s been going on
eotape. means to imagine the perfect race from end to end in slow motion.
s exerc ke, what will you do if your goggles fill with water?
y strok ect race, even though your goggles are filled with water,
s of di mental preparation cycles. And in fact, that is what happened in one
goggle ill with water. Which you could just imagine how, if you have never
ever th hrough it psychologically, mentally, that’s it, that’s
, forge lympics. I would hate to try and do that for even a couple of lengths
enjoya d he still is able to win because he’s literally prepared for these
came do hose Olympics, Bob Bowman said to me, he said, I knew it was feasible
uldn’t that it happened as effortlessly as it did. It just, everything clicked
er anot says at the end, he stood, like in the movie, The Miracle,
lway an on his own, just had this moment of sort of exquisite meltdown of like,
een spe ith confidence, but the thing actually executed so beautifully,
ever d before. You know, like somebody described him, if he wins seven gold
ke the an on the moon. If he wins eight, he’ll be like the first man on Mars.
ht. Whe t to the cube in China, I was reflecting on this. How did he make
so effo It’s like, that’s why, you know, that’s why I went and ended up
out thi se I was like, oh, you got to explain it. What went on? What’s behind
t just ent that looks like the moment of execution. It’s what are all
are all tigating things we can do? We’ll build that into the routine.
though h I think is interesting. He said, if you ask Phelps about
even te there is a routine. It’s so normal now. And it was built so
s just nd yet all of it was built in place as anticipation for challenges
at then ole thing feels effortless, fluid, but really it’s because of all
n plann ah. And it’s also, it strikes me not what is holding this back. It
nse, bu now, what could prevent this? I know one very, very successful,
ybe the uccessful consumer packaged goods investors. He’s also a serial
sts in, go to Whole Foods, everything there is CPG. All right. He
s, he s ree years from now, you guys have had a huge dispute and one of you
t are t likely reasons? That’s his question. Like what are the most likely
, there t that can uncork, obviously, if there’s a, if there are already
pointin ay, then he’ll get to see it, but it often will unearth other things
ematic, Maybe there’s an equity split that one person feels is unfair.
er dyna re they’re both trying to split CEO duties 50-50, which I’ve never
and so Right. But having those come up early allows him as an investor to
nd I’m aying here, but he might say, I want to invest. Here are the terms
e to, b ndition of that will be that we fix A, B, and C that you guys brought
right? ‘s a way of sussing out a pre-mortem. And in my case, to focus on
, it’s mple. It’s like, okay, well, if I’m traveling, what happens? Because
e and I ll of my toys and tools and my routine is already established,
t of he nd hawing or figuring out how to order food from room service
great. u need to develop systems and plans and contingencies so that you do
d to do r worst days. The best days will hopefully kind of take care of
world always serve you up perfect days. So in the case of the low back
kay, we hould have yoga mat. I’m just using the yoga mat example pre-ship to
aybe we hotels based on which ones have gyms or yoga mats already in the
e for s ces. But basically put that into a template, right? Maybe that’s a
r for s else where it’s like, okay, I have to book a hotel for location X.
ules? W he template? And then that’s it. It’s just done. Hopefully it’s a
t type ation where it’s like, okay, identify a possible problem,
o possi blem, build that into every time X is done, right? Whatever that X might
ou use n’t a new word to any of us, but brings to mind an extreme and
s is th systems. And I don’t know if you know Rob Dyrdek.
e’s an r. Have you seen the show Ridiculousness?
e. Mayb e. Yeah. I’ll have to look it up.
ican ho os, you know, crazy crashes and terrible things and hilarious.
hows th most famous for now, a big MTV show. Before that, he was famous
g show in Big. And then before that, he was famous as a skateboarder.
ening t know already who Rob Dyrdek is. But in persona, he’s this skateboarder.
and he’ tain kind of version of him. But as I’ve got to know Rob,
my min e intentionality of the system he’s building. I think he’s the second
der in , among many other things. I want to try and capture this because
ument. lled The Rhythm of Experience. I’ve had a lot of people send me kind
and doc and versions of things, right? Like his vision statements and
and goa roles and all sorts of things you might expect to have in there.
ocument s like seeing the future. Every single thing he learns about himself,
ut a pr they just build it into the same single document. Everything. So when
has the think he does it either every week or every two weeks from the time
e’s lik like a Ferrari. We’re just updating the Ferrari. It’s not because
It’s ju cipation. Of course there’ll be problems. So we just build it
o anyth t comes up in those conversations, he doesn’t just go,
d. I’m trying to work on that, going to improve on that. He goes, okay,
unicati about what my schedule is. Okay. So he builds it into the
le morn email of my routine will be sent every day forever going
So she has to have that specific problem again. Everything he learns,
system he isn’t learning the same lesson, you know, like living 20 years,
just l he same year, 20 times. He’s actually gaining 20 years of experience.
questi t his document, the rhythm of experience,
ike the two things, at least just to confirm that I’m understanding this.
hat con earnings and various things. He also has very rapid action
ay, wif the feedback. I don’t know what your schedule is. I want you to
ve for communicate better about that. He’s like, great. From this point forward,
regard edule. But it sounds like that goes into action. How that’s
t know. at does the document do, right? Because if the document
howeve it is, presumably there would have to be some scheduled time for
sing it keaway is that he basically creates a rule and systematizes things
e a hun e-off bandaid solutions, right? There’s like some sort of recurring
ermanen y that he puts in place to address various things.
ment ac used?
m has a o the same document. So it’s not just for him to remember.
brain. what you’re going to first. Like you’re not coming to him,
handle d that? Unless it’s not in that document. It really is. I mean,
the id he difference between working in your business and on your
just ap that to his life in a more sophisticated, developed way than anyone I
I have urprisingly, spent a lot of time thinking about systems. I come up with
and thi , and this. That I have found to be the easy part. I create a document
ates a t. There’s a Google doc. It’s shared with everyone on the team.
the pro doing business week to week, month to month, year to year, there are
documen aside from for specific documents saying, if they’re short enough,
e’s a s hich there is, I have a sort of 12 commandments of Tim’s calendar
t’s lik , like every Wednesday morning review this or something. Okay.
dy put curring calendar item to do that. But otherwise I’m most interested
s the d because there’s a search and discovery challenge sort of inherent
d so on if it’s a single doc, that’s interesting, but that presents its own
ecomes unwieldy, it’s like, Hey, my wife didn’t get the reminder on the
ike, wh nder on the calendar? Well, whatever. And they’re like, Oh,
ied und ellaneous. Why didn’t you find it? And it’s because no human would
that qu here. So I don’t know if there’s any light you can shed on that.
thinki t that, I’m just remembering of other precision things that
ght? So s his haircut once a week at exactly the same time because he likes his
ver hav ink about that. Never have to schedule it. And every time I schedule
et my h every time I think you’re doing this wrong, Greg, because there’s a
that. A ow someone who’s done it and I haven’t done it yet. I mean, what we’re
e diffe etween linear results and residual results, right? So if a linear
ou say, it only happens today if you take action to do it today, right?
ight? Y paid per hour per day. And so you get paid when you work today,
income be, okay, income that rolls to you through all sorts of investments
en you’ ping. So it just is happening automatically. It’s such a game changer
set bet e two. Let’s talk about if you’re open to it and feel free to defer
n a dif thread if you like, but defining done, this is also something that has
on. I’l ou open that in any way that makes sense. But why is it important to
oks lik use insecure overachievers can endlessly complicate any task
e. So j ing the question, what does done look like? And then sticking to it,
hing ha ned, when we’ve reached that point, that is what done will be on
goal. I urse is an accelerating thing to do. And then maybe just
nt way. lmost like a natural law. If you don’t know what done looks
done. fining a done for the day list, I think is really helpful.
l that lly never thought I would do it, I was under contract to create an
anner 1 ago. And after I worked on it for a few months with a team,
eah, I would just be creating something just totally non-essential,
ironic. just, it’s just not helpful enough to anyone. This is just like
like t journal. And I uncommitted, got out of the contract. And then
go, aft carried on trial and error in my own life, applying these ideas,
no, ac I think I have something now that’s special and it works. And
me. I t m ready to actually get into contract and do it. So we did that,
more i ns, removed loads of stuff you would normally have in a planner so that
f just rt of it has a personal quarterly offsite in it as a weekly process.
then a rocess. And the output of the daily process is a done for the
t mean u’ve done these six items and it’s the particular, it’s called the
hods. S ‘s six items total. When you’ve done those six things, you can feel
day an you don’t do anything else, but you know, you have done important
gs, key for tomorrow. And there’s a method to get to that, but a done for the
k, help chologically for removing unnecessary cognitive strain on our minds
petuall . There’s no doing and then not doing times. There’s just
endless g semi-tasks or semi-distractions in a digital world.
method entioned that, that is the one most essential thing, two essential and
three m nce items equals done for the day?
give a le of what that might look like in your own life? What that one,
ed like ht look like?
p just t a second, just to say, okay, this is part of the daily process.
ence be ructure and this protocol. And nobody needs to know that,
that re is, but it’s helpful just to know that that’s the case.
ucture call it the power half an hour, because I basically think,
le, may yone, including me, it’s unrealistic to say,
r whole But if you could take control of half an hour of your life
very ot ute of the other 23 and a half hours, okay,
h retur fort. And if there’s a micro version, you can do it,
sugges ink you can do this well, still have a valuable experience,
es, and sort of a backup, lower bound. But you’re answering three
tioned eviously, but you do it on a daily basis. What, so what,
e struc o that every day you take that noise. So instead of it building up
time, like, you’re just spending that immediately, just getting the
oing on oad. So what? What’s the news in your life? Try to find the
Why doe matter? What does this mean? And then the third thing, the now what
ree met at does it look like for me? Okay. You know, so the priority for
nking a turday, priority for the day on Saturday, my niece is getting married,
hout ou em. And so that’s the priority. And that’s an obvious one, I suppose,
e, you ertain things it’s already structurally built in. I still find it
it bec helps me go, okay, that’s the mission. That’s the priority,
do one today, if I only need to give my attention to one thing today,
to giv tion to. And underneath that, you have, okay, two things that
rgent. I sort of described this as like the taxes of our life. And that was kind
n Satur ght? We’d come into the very end of the year, any final financial
ve sort retirement, taxes, anything, this would be the last day to check.
k those he items that were on there. Maintenance items I describe as like
life, w n be literally the laundry, but I have a car that has one of the tires
on it. ly it’s not normal, simple thing, but if I don’t take care of that,
I have ute it, the task is schedule this or have this organized so that you
three ance items per day are the things that make tomorrow a lot harder
e them Your future self is always grateful that you took care of the
And of this is all just a rule of thumb, this one, two, three,
it so . And I don’t do it every day. I still wish I did.
s that don’t do it, my day is more frenetic, more frantic. I don’t have
he day. ot nearly as satisfying because even though I can still be
d of mo ed way, you don’t know if you’re doing the most important thing.
, I hav ted these things. You don’t have something to come back to going back
y of, o ll, all these things happened that I didn’t expect to happen.
That’s But you don’t have a chance to go, okay, coming back to the most
t’s wor is again. And so that’s an example from just literally this weekend
k about d it just allows you on the days that I’ve done it to enjoy the
o, and se maybe this is the most important benefit is that you actually know
t impor ing, which as previously stated is actually the least likely
at’s of , a very satisfying way to live. So you go through 2025
very da if you and I, if everyone listening to this does the most important
they d ing else different in 2025, there’s no question that would change both
ntum. Y , the whole velocity of the year would be different
ency no the most important thing. And of course, the other things add to that
ore eff approach to doing the things that matter most.
add to hat working on the most important thing gives you a sense of
that s things do not. So it’s not purely the clinical moving of the needle
, becau ly there’s nothing outside of your psychological experience of reality,
g moore ointed in the right direction with the bigger thing psychologically is
lly val It’s not just about whatever the points might be. Sure, the points
y psych lly and psycho-emotionally knowing that you’re working on
ers, ho ou’ve defined that, is I have just found, you know, this past year,
very g of that. And it’s remarkable what that does for your mental health.
that a more in detail. So you’re describing the impact of meaning,
cally k each day, each week and so on, I’m pursuing something that means
has it or you psychologically?
say th e’s a bit more to it just in terms of maybe characteristics when
tant th for instance, for me, there has to be a making or mastery component,
o eithe ing something or I am trying to master something, not just,
side, nage or mitigate. So for instance, even though doing the PT for the low
ncredib rtant. If I decide that is the most important thing per se,
there.
g not t
ar asso with it. It is not an inspiring headspace to inhabit. Now,
be doin know, back PT in the gulag by candlelight. I mean, it doesn’t
e, but n’t have the requisite payoff that I would want in a most important
ds to g , which means that it’s maybe the two essential and urgent things
enance right? But it’s a non-negotiable maintenance.
to have or instance, been working on my first book in seven years,
tastic s. Shocker. It’s become absurdly long.
a short It’s going to be a hell of an accomplishment.
was ju ng to me last night about Tools of Titans. This is the
married
rmally o read. He said 20 minutes a day, but I sat down and
like t s working through it. There’s so much in it. That was
. They t the blue said that. So carry on anyway.
makes m good. That was a fun book to write, which isn’t always
s one a op, which feels very good to get back into as I feel like much
It’s ju you could put out the best thing imaginable in most formats that are
d it wi vanished from the minds of the people that passed in front of
oks sti an interesting place. They have a certain durability. It might not
here’s in durability that I think is really important.
et abou eep. Not just, oh, that’s impressive. It holds a certain place in
l. And d reason. I mean, books have lasted longer than almost anything else.
I’m, a her things, trying to impact lives, I feel like that feels like time
and tha
n the m ide, right? Then I also have been spending a lot of time on
y, whic ery bit as frustrating as golf in a lot of respects. I don’t
talked ot of golfers, and that’s the closest comparison. When it’s going
autiful hen you can’t figure out what you’ve changed to make things go
frustr But it’s become this constant that I can work on, in some cases,
in some big gains. I don’t want to imply that I’m going to master archery,
as if my goal. And there’s an article, let me just pull it up. I want
e credi e, that I’m reading right now on mastery. And it is on
G dot c the name of the piece, which I recommend to folks, it’s actually
s, and ng.com is a reference to Trung Fan, who is the writer.
iro Suz d the pursuit of mastery. Notes from the 1987 Esquire magazine
Jerry d to, quote, pursue mastery because that will fulfill your life,
put th he show notes. But it basically makes the point that if you
or som to approach through the lens of deliberate practice and mastery,
r ends, This may be something you do for an incredibly long period
o highl ifferent archetypes and why they fail to pursue mastery, which I found
that ar sport, that fill in the blank could be your most constant companion
nd ther ething very reassuring about that. So to have that as a through
ity div ation, so that if something goes sideways with the podcast or
ways in life, that you have diversified your psychological health on some
not tot vested in one basket. So I would say that speaks a bit to how
things. aking your mastery versus mitigating risk or managing. That’s how I’ve
it for . And I feel for myself, I need something that is inspiring as the
g. Now, not always going to be the case, right? If you have a family member
emerge ‘s like, okay, that may be the most important thing. But if you have
you ha ability to choose, I want something that’s inspiring because that
reathin nerates energy, it generates the excitement and the life force,
r term, hen trickles down to everything else. But if the thing I choose
ng or i iding something bad, it’s running away from something as opposed
g, then sn’t work for me. It really doesn’t.
erent t here, but one thing that stands out to me is just this idea that
e to ha was described this way to me once, and I liked this, that because life
eed to meaning that justifies that level of suffering.
nking a out this as well.
st famo on in the world about meaning would be Viktor Frankl in his creation
of the rmany concentration camps. He’s a psychologist and a Jew, and he’s going
iences, crafts his story in Man’s Search for Meaning. But just building on
sometim d try to, if he was in therapy with somebody, he would say,
say, oh t want to die. You know, I’m like, I’ve got no reason to live.
now pre the words he would use, but he’s effectively saying, okay, well,
hy have done that? Like, what is it that actually keeps you here then?
ld be a I don’t mean as trivial, but it might sound trivial. It could be,
and I n feed the cat. Those answers were not nothing to him at all.
s sort teway to being able to reconstruct a life of meaning because there’s
ning th be built upon. And so I really think this is an under taught and
ea. And k it distinguishes itself considerably from productivity because you
at all of things like that you shouldn’t even be doing or don’t really
‘t driv You could be doing task execution all day long and feel really
life. something meaningful, something beautiful, something creative as you’re
suming, ng the ratio of consumption to creation, I think is one really
t shift think a lot of people would benefit in. Consuming does not fill
reating ng, even if it’s not very good at first, it’s just being in the act of
s close aning. So I struggle a little bit. People will describe what I’m into.
oductiv ng. I never self-identify that way because like essentialism,
ut, it’ bout doing more things. It’s about doing more of the right things.
word, s very important. It’s trying to craft your life around the highest
u can c y conjure. I think it’s about as good an antidote to the psychological
n of ou that exists. Maybe it’s the only one really. This idea of radical
gratitu xpressing thanks for things you’re not thankful for because that’s
ally is n, if you look at the definition of gratitude, I did not know this
ars ago ught gratitude was a life changer, game changer, and it meant be grateful
in you That is, remember them, express them, focus on them. That’s not the
tude. I ook at the definition of gratitude in the dictionary, what you find is
th a sp thankfulness. And that’s not the same thing because that’s not just
te good . That’s for everything. And as I was thinking about this,
hat was changer for me when my daughter Eve was very ill with an undiagnosed
ion, wh a free falling in her executive function. I found that radical gratitude
rt of t ess of not being able to control the situation and watching some of the
uddenly mentally and physically hugely incapacitated on the way to
I lear there. But as I was talking about it yesterday, when I was sharing
I thoug l, it’s so easy to point back to that because it all worked out in
know, o by and okay, it’s resolved. So I can point back to radical gratitude
it now thought, can I express this idea out loud? Because it sticks in my
I go t about it now. Can I say out loud? I am thankful that my best friend of 35 years
cancer e I want to rage against that, that phrase, that idea. It feels so, I won’t
hat’s n e right, but it is something so violating about that expression. But it’s in the
at you urself. It’s like an act of faith that opens meaning that’s invisible
he firs of the equation. Because opening oneself to the idea that there could
sufferi there’s such a gift in that. So it’s sort of hidden behind this
t to ta expression of it, but I’m grateful for this challenge because
ughts t e to me just yesterday about this was because now I need to live,
uilt wa I need to live double now. Like I cannot just go through life.
e in a living it doubly because he can’t do that now. So the 40 to 50
ybe tha uld have had together, that’s just not happening now. That’s
story. still find that unimaginable is almost impossible for me to get my
ut if t he reality, what’s the possible meaning in it? This I think is like
actual life is to open oneself to the possibility that there is meaning in
fering ecause God is a vivisectionist. That’s C.S. Lewis’s language for it.
cide, h a vivisectionist? Does he take pleasure in suffering or is there
ering? t’s only one answer to this question, but to take responsibility
fferent value the remaining years and hopefully decades differently. It’s like
lity bu to me like a scar, like a scar. I don’t think I could have it taken
‘t thin ut I certainly don’t want it to be. It’s like, no, that scar stays.
nd I wa ive out of that understanding and just try to make good on the
doesn’ And there’s something about that. I mean, I’m obviously still
of all s, but I think that’s one way to detect meaning that can save us,
nk you ring that. I know that can’t be easy to think about and feel,
the op neself to the possibility that you can be grateful, not just
pliftin ositive things, but to tag on that. I am grateful for X difficult
dot, do e the mind to hopefully produce something that engenders meaning
ed with ing. Yeah. Plenty for me to chew on there too.
experi th it, but it’s also, you can go back and follow the trail of
, you k e whole post-traumatic growth literature. That is those
ugh tra don’t just, first of all, there’s sort of three options, right? You can
. There me people that return to level as before. That would be kind of the
And th e’s this other phenomenon happens less often, but it does happen
fied, c rized, codified, and studied is people that move to a higher level
trauma. , you know, we’ve all been very familiar with PTSD. Post-traumatic growth
which too bad because I think that’s really the thing you want to
ere is hat we can, in tangible ways, have beauty for ashes. That it’s not
It’s n nice to have. It’s like, if there’s so much suffering and those
ls thro ch we can actually build a life of meaning, it’s like, oh, okay. So
ce it d tly, not spend my whole life just trying to avoid it or to,
of pos oxicity.
d it.
.
right, to drive for the rest of my life without hitting any red lights.
going . So you might as well figure out how to handle red lights.
or for a will say to me, you know, from time to time,
hout a experience. And there’s a term for this, it’s called sonder.
that, erience of sort of remembering and knowing that other people’s
and emo y challenging and so on as our own. And it’s not obvious all the
asy to with shallow stories about other people.
it from . Oh, well, that person’s all right, you know, because they,
as mone cause that person’s famous or because that person’s,
o be ab fray. And it’s like, I actually think it’s a sort of a limit of
nly lim mpathy, but to realize like, no, not one of those people is
experi suffering that all of us are. Yes. Maybe they have different set of
hey hav ble solutions that you wish you had access to. I mean,
e in di positions in life, but man, I have never met a person that could
o escap It’s like, you can’t, it’s hardwired into, I don’t want to call
but lik ou say it is for a moment, it’s like, yeah, it’s hardwired into this.
t. This I think so many people try to actually pursue distraction of any
ause of empt to avoid the pain and suffering. And I think most addictions
the cor oid the experience of being alive. And that’s because it’s so painful
Can be.
ve to t to open yourself to the meaning. Well, this isn’t happening for me,
know a way to get there than radical gratitude.
that, nd just to reiterate something you said earlier about,
n turn ries of others into these NPC, like extras and video games where
now, si plained in one sentence, whereas we have this raging torrent of
experi nd a few things come to mind. One, and I wish I had the attribution on
aid, yo everyone is fighting a battle you know nothing about. Number one.
viewed osch, very well-known basketball player on the podcast. And I’m pretty sure
, and s else had said this to him, you know, if you’re sitting at a table
ut thei ems on the table, you did the same. He’s like, you would pick your
up. He , once you saw actually what everyone was contending with.
rscore cause I think that’s such a strange phenomenon. At Stanford University,
al Chur you go into that, it’s a non-denominational church from the very
carve e all of these key ideas. And one of them is basically what you just
peat it hat is a strange phenomenon. There is something that that gives me a
w, a so litch in the matrix in that illustration that even for the discomfort
leness pain and the frustration of our problems, something about them
yond ju ‘re familiar to us. I think they are connected to us. If I were
osophic ould say something like, maybe we knew we’d have these, like we actually
o choos or not, like pre here. And it certainly has that kind of vibe to
hare it m sort of just having it hit me again. It’s like, yeah, we actually
ems. Oh There is something in them that there’s something like stepping stones
unique to become next, to become more and more of who we really are and
o we re en’t, which is, you know, that’s the real essence of essentialism.
to do’s en goals. It’s like a becoming process. And these are the raw
it. It toxic positivity because it’s not pretending there aren’t problems
there a hallenges. It’s to open oneself to the possibility that there’s no
s is th o becoming who we’re supposed to become. I’m not saying every single
ke that ot saying the flat tire is the thing. I’m not saying it like that.
life ar lly, some of them in my life have felt signature, that they really are
ense, p arly excruciatingly hard for me. But even in that,
the oth of it, like, no, but that means it was done with a high degree of care,
‘s a re fferent way to live. And I’m still obviously just learning in that
cipline it of meaning.
ext boo e’ve covered a lot of ground. I think this will give folks a lot of
things w on for the next year, where they want to point themselves,
ink abo ing, suffering, mastery, choosing the most important thing. We’ve
here an else we are going to talk about where people can find
anner a perhaps get started learning more about principles that we’ve
re? But re anything else that you’d like to cover, whether concepts or
hing at at you’d like to add before we wind to a close?
resting sation with Eric Newton, who took to social media. I didn’t know him
he’d l from the biggest suffering in his life, which was, well,
his wif escribed their relationship prior to this as having lots of
he des it as a sort of fantastic love affair, but then also he describes
d chall hat I had him on my podcast once I’d read this because someone sent
this i ar to the kinds of things you’re wrestling with. And what’s,
sting a e story is that it wasn’t just when she got this diagnosis that
was pos where she got into what turned out to be the last six weeks of her
regret he regret was not having been deeply connected enough with the people
. And I t that was such a distinct kind of insight. He said, she suddenly
vulner and intimacy that he literally didn’t know existed. Not just in their
st didn it existed in life. To have someone be so honest, so open,
hose la the onion that, you know, to go back to that metaphor.
s, he w , okay, this actually is love. They’ve been married for years
s and d verything. He’s like, this is what it actually means. And
mething his. He’s like, if there’s a purpose in any of it,
deepeni ection with the people who matter most to you.
ouched . I was touched by a story. I was fascinated by that story.
walked th was, how do you live like that normally? Is there a skill set
t one o things that you would have to have that extremity to be able to
links some of this research I’ve been doing on Carl Rogers,
that th way that we can at least get a lot closer to that ideal in normal
kind o bly better form of listening than almost anybody experiences in life.
s learn t’s there. It’s available, but almost nobody’s trained in it.
t are r rained in Rogerian listening is like psychotherapists,
And if ven’t been, the risk is enormous that they will make problems worse
make t ter, because they simply won’t be addressing anything like the right
ttackin eaves of the problem, not the roots of the problem. And they
hey’ll n their own mental models of solutions instead of getting to what the
that’s ple that are trained in it, or to some extent trained in it.
the do hat aren’t trained in it. That’s what happened with Eve. It’s just
ory for erent day. But there were doctors with all this training that
hey kne was wrong with her. If we had done what they had said,
And it’ bout their expertise. In a sense, their expertise was the
t have ility to be listening properly. And so I think that’s the thing I want to
ink tha is a form of listening that we can provide for each other that
t’s so e. And I do sometimes think it’s the primary thing missing
son jus it to me recently. I mean, there’s so many things I’ve got wrong
erson. just said that if there was ever a problem, I knew I could come,
d liste ven if it was something you were doing that was frustrating,
sten. T ot passive listening. It’s a very particular kind. And
h that. really, really want to help people learn how to do this with each
people stay informed of your now pending class related to
Yeah, y want to do this. I’m not kidding about it. It’s not just a
I wasn’ ing on talking about it. So it is spontaneous, but I really think
I mean nk people could just, the easiest single thing, go to
page. T get right now, what we do have right now is a less but better course.
free. T sign up in 10 seconds. And then we will send information about
or for f a better term courses on there and we’ll do them live. And like,
r how t is because it’s everything. Thank you, Greg. Really appreciate
the fl ty with scheduling. It’s always a pleasure to have a conversation with
ody lis as always, we’ll have everything that we’ve discussed linked to in
.blog.c ast. And if you search Greg, so McEwen, certainly you can also try
W-N. An will be the most recent episode as of right now. And until next time,
you fo g in, everybody. And be just a bit kinder than is necessary,
but al ourself as you’re looking forward to the next year.
up ove year. Just see if you can plan for not just a better,
year. you not just do the important things, but do the joyous things?
t do th things, but find ways to make those important things a little
ortless These are all questions worth considering. Thanks, everybody.
im agai one more thing before you take off. And that is Five Bullet Friday.
ting a mail from me every Friday that provides a little fun
Betwee nd a half and two million people subscribe to my free newsletter,
letter Five Bullet Friday. Easy to sign up, easy to cancel. It is
ge that out every Friday to share the coolest things I’ve found or discovered
loring at week. It’s kind of like my diary of cool things. It often includes
g, book eading, albums, perhaps gadgets, gizmos, all sorts of tech tricks
sent to my friends, including a lot of podcast guests. And these strange,
up in d and then I test them and then I share them with you.
un, aga s very short, a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off
mething nk about. If you’d like to try it out, just go to tim.blog
that in browser, tim.blog slash Friday. Drop in your email and you’ll get the
ks for ng. Creatine isn’t just for muscle. It’s essential daily fuel for your
d long- rformance. For me, I have Alzheimer’s and dementia risk in my family,
its are ason I take creatine every single day. And today’s episode
is the andard in creatine. There’s a lot of BS floating around,
Why? Be hey source CreaPure creatine, the purest, most effective
e avail o if you’ve been curious about creatine, this is your moment to get
y it fo irst time. Momentus is also now introducing the Momentus
h chew s one gram of pure CreaPure creatine monohydrate. I was skeptical of
like, I r going to use these. It turns out that I use them all the time.
nient a are NSF certified for sports. So you get the gold standard purity
s. Head emomentus.com and use code TIM for up to 35% off of your first order.
ld dog, the early 2000s, back in the day when I was running my own e-commerce
were a s. They tried hard. But man, was it bad. You had to cobble all sorts of
ould on m of a platform like Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind
ses aro world. And now 10% of all e-commerce in the US is on Shopify. Now back to
en nobo thought of AI. Who could have predicted, even in the last 24 months, the magic
e with pify has been ahead of the curve and they are packed with helpful AI tools
e every Write product descriptions, page headlines, even enhance your
. Best Shopify expertly handles everything from managing inventory to
ing, pr g returns and beyond. If you’re ready to sell, you’re ready for Shopify.
per mo al and start selling today at shopify.com slash TIM. One more time,
slash T 2026, stop waiting and start selling with Shopify.
. Welco nother episode of The Tim Ferriss Show. To kick things off
re-rele y most recent conversation with Greg McKeown. I’ll explain who
recorde at the end of 2024. I’ve had it super helpful. I’ve revisited
. And i ant to get grounded, centered for the new year, focused,
ractica . How to get centered when life feels destabilizing, using
from co to clarity, personal quarterly off-sites, pre-mortem systems
g one-t es into repeatable rules, defining done so your work doesn’t expand
ne-two- ethod for having a successful day, and it goes on and on. There’s
who is reg McKeown, M-C-K-E-O-W-N. You can find him on X, at Gregory
hor of York Times bestsellers, Essentialism, The Disciplined Pursuit
hlighte book in hundreds of places, and that is what led me to ultimately
nd his book, Effortless, Make It Easier to Do What Matters Most. And these
togethe we certainly dip in and out of a lot of the key concepts
. He’s speaker, host of the Greg McKeown podcast, founder of the Essentialism
nts fro to 100 countries. And 200,000 people receive his weekly One Minute
r, and lso the creator of the Essentialism Planner. So he’s done a lot. This
you ple chew on and take away and apply. So happy new year, everyone. I hope
yours easant surprises. And now let’s get to the episode. Enjoy.
can ru out for a half mile before my hands start shaking.
, it co a calamity, it could just be something destabilizing, could
you ce urself so that you don’t just end up feeling like you’re in
? Becau very good at getting things done, even when I’m
g a lot moil. But the last handful of days have been very, very
‘t have into specifics, but this is a close loved one. And a lot of the
e going l on me to figure things out. It’s also the holidays, right? So the
t a hol cannot get a hold of. And I recognize that fretting over it does not
t makes makes my day less peaceful and enjoyable. And I’ll make a reference
er conv ns, which may have been on the record, may have been behind the
, I’m p ure that you mentioned a piece of artwork called The Listener,
h is th of centered, calm person. And I have it up on my wall at home with
g commo d chaos around him. And in the center, he’s just perfectly centered
ose my n is, how do you help get yourself closer to that depiction of the
ealize, here may be a lot of chaos around me, there may be a lot of chaos in
I’m med , like meditating like twice a day. It’s helpful. It doesn’t seem to
d maybe swer is, look, you sit with it. This is just something you’re going
So don a problem out of a problem in a sense. But I’m curious what you
in thos mstances. I think I can respond that I don’t think it’s just
d I’m p tation and I’m certainly pro prayer. But the thing I want to say
ishing se outside of us and the noise inside of us, because they are two
nd I wa ort of share a story and then illustrate the action that comes
his las r, I was back in England. I’m doing this doctorate at the University
o part requirement of that is to have residency every year there.
felt re stabilized while I was there. And it wasn’t the doctorate that I don’t
larly m rt of why. It’s because my best friend of 35 years, Sam Bridgestock,
And th en a long time coming. We’ve known that that would happen. But facing it
rson. B asn’t even just that, because it wasn’t like I didn’t know before. It wasn’t
new und ing of the truth or the reality. It was, I actually, for a while, I couldn’t
s. But realized, oh, he has so much mindshare about the reality of my whole life.
hen I w ears old. And those years, those developmental years, I mean,
riendsh it was so stabilizing to me at the time to have a relationship
onest. I’m completely frank, at a little bit of a risk in a way, but
that d rioritize that for a whole series of complex reasons.
minent tain loss of him, it’s like, my goodness, my whole sense of reality is
‘s not en though this is a loss of such a friendship and so on, it tapped
s whole of what is true and who do you go to to validate that? And do I have
se of t be able to navigate this? Because he was the one I would go
this i s happening. This is the reality. This is the situation in those most
ps. And ea of like, oh, I won’t be able to go to him. It destabilized
erent l nd all human systems have these levels, right? From the surface,
fe, sha nd then you go further closer and closer, like to say that the
ems at e are things that are so meaningful that they are inherently
able. B to mess with them, to tweak them even, I mean, the opportunity is
hat’s w ssive transformational change happens. But if it gets shaken by something,
it’s th quake because the tectonic plate of truth inside of you is getting
er you’ ing a clearer sense of what is true. And that’s all contextual
m your cription, if you’re using language of destabilization,
er is h g externally isn’t just reverberating at the surface or the middle,
ing rea p. And so of course, then that changes everything.
ame way . Everything has been injected with some sort of degree of
want t back to this idea of just meditating, the idea of just sitting with
are mo ly meditative than I am may say, well, no, no, that practice
to do. ound this summer, and I find in general, I need to write it out
e of th s I try to teach our children about. There’s all kinds of prayer.
f writi eam it out. Cry it out. Whatever it is, it’s like it doesn’t have to
ersion . A little example of this was given to me, somebody that I had on my
arted a siness. And that destabilized it, not all the way to the core, but
she’s w p. She doesn’t have a set income as before. And she wakes up at like
, just at. Just what have I done? Just super stressed.
ing thi ng.
it.
but vis .
But the c is similar. And what she did, she did it all spontaneously,
etty am But what she did, she grabbed a sheet of paper.
have be berate that she grabbed a sheet of paper rather than a book,
planne use she wanted to scream onto the page. She wanted to do it with
t, with areness, conscious awareness. I’m going to throw this thing away.
see th o one else has to see it.
had mo n impermanent implication than a journal where you can’t tear
ely to out and toss it. This is like, all right, I’m going to scribble
nd then the act.
was int g because without her intent, what she experienced in just a few
e went, this is my restate of what she experienced, but she went from confusion
natura o creation without meaning to do that. And I thought that that was
hat was eresting in her case study is that she didn’t wake up going,
ate a p what to do in these circumstances. She just went,
d and i overwhelming. The emotions are so much, I have to give it somewhere.
scream o the page, of letting it all out, separating ourselves from that
ternal I think is extremely powerful because I think it helps us to go from
r. And om observer, I think once we start observing, we’re better able to become
nk that shift.
nder th e best practices are like brushing your teeth. And I know this,
my use thing that sounds very similar, which would be morning pages.
le sinc done it. I picked up a new habit, this meditation, and there are only
the mor ight? So it’s tough to do a 27-step boot up, especially if you have
ities. meditation came in, other things went out. One of them was the morning
e, but orgotten that was in my toolkit. And this is a very good reminder
hen in kind of go back to the fundamentals. Maybe it’s something that you’ve
esn’t n ily have to be a brand new shiny thing. And in this case,
ight. W monkey mind is just running in circles, trying to think my way
oing to pful. It is just a fruitless labor.
I reme is summer, because I happened to be doing the research,
he page y for like, I don’t know, a couple of hours. And I don’t know
was us r the research or for a future book or so on. It was too raw for any
initely to get it all out. And I thought when I looked at it all afterwards,
u know, Allen says, yeah, your mind is a bad office. It’s good at all sorts
that so omplex organization on its own. And when I looked at the page of all
ught, y at’s way, way too much for the ram of my mind to be able to
ike lay layers of complexity and intensity that needs to step over
at it than trying to live in it. One additional little thing I learned
n in th that I was mentioning is a term I had never heard before,
e elabo And what that is, is when you ask a question, we’ve all had this
asks yo stion, it is impossible not to think about it. And that’s a
ng to l out somehow our cognitive inheritance, because it means if you give
nd then bout it, it’s like your mind can’t help but go there.
I used stinctive elaboration when I felt overwhelmed, not in the
bilizat t a very intense last 30 days, you know, with family wedding,
ls, the en the holidays, Christmas, two birthdays, and that’s just the normal
the st t’s been going on. So it’s been this really intense period.
time I ting down, my journal is finished, it’s over the holidays,
going as like, I can’t just go and grab another one. I thought I had
have i I really felt strangely stuck. Of course, there’s so many
but wh feel frozen or stuck with things, you’re not thinking in that
litera d like an AI tool and I sort of raged into that. Like, okay,
his que What is going on? Just download the what is happening in your life.
re of w what? Now what? What is happening? Let’s just get it out. And then
okay, n ? What’s the news? What does this mean? Because we’re all meaning
izing e ces. What they’re really doing is they’re messing with our sense of
tion. A hen now what is, well, what do I do about it? And I just download,
corded then sent the recording. It was like, okay, what do you make of
really that much from it, but the restate it gave me back was so helpful.
fe in p ive and helped me go, oh, of course, that’s why you’re feeling all
d it ev me some quite, I would say, reasonably advanced suggestions of what
audio
se?
a good ent because that’s something you can do kind of in between,
ng arou .
rip an ‘s no downside to it.
le of t ere’s a good little prompt to give to that is, I didn’t do it
I’ve a before to respond as Carl Rogers would. Carl Rogers was the
really than anyone else, introduced into therapeutic processes, the idea of
athic l g. There’s been two studies that were done about Rogerian
I thin ke 1980-something, and then again in like 2000-something, I can find
tionnai sent both times, a huge number of psychologists, who’s the most
ogist i otherapy? And both times they identified Carl Rogers as the most
r view their practice. I think that’s pretty amazing because, you know,
s a lot ttention, but in practice, what works is what Carl Rogers did.
he’s s s similar to what we’ve been talking about. He says,
ally li me, he says, whenever someone really listens to me,
process fe starts to make more sense. You know, the dots start to connect for
at they ing to do that for me. It’s just the nature of the process of being
And so the one that sort of really invented the language of empathic restating
to prac nd the whole idea, I think, is that you are de-layering the stuff that
e. Wher what normally happens in conversation, even everyday conversation,
mething ople just immediately give advice. I mean, within just instantly,
hat’s g inside of you. You don’t even know what’s going on inside of you.
eady gi vice and suggestions and adding confusion. And I think
ss and of judgment and all of those things. Whereas in what he found was
isten d nough, and he said, it takes a lot of courage to do this.
d, most cannot do it. We just don’t have the courage to listen
e are, ate back to them and we just keep doing it, we’ll go deeper and deeper
es. And sense of like people in the end kind of almost heal themselves
to unde what’s happening inside of them. Well, I’ve played around with using
at back nd forwards relationship communication. And actually, I found
anced a able to do it. So I think it can be a very helpful tool.
. Well, for that detour off of our planned programming. I appreciate that.
to our rs and we’ll be right back to the show.
ld dog, the early 2000s, back in the day when I was running my
ness, t s were atrocious. They tried hard, but man, was it bad. You had to
stuff r. I could only dream of a platform like Shopify. Shopify is the
ehind m of businesses around the world. And now 10% of all e-commerce in the
Now ba he early 2000s, then nobody even thought of AI. Who could have
he last ths, the magic that is now possible with AI? Shopify has been ahead of
are pac h helpful AI tools that will accelerate everything, write product
headlin n enhance your product photography. Best of all, Shopify expertly
from ma inventory to international shipping to processing returns and
eady to you’re ready for Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and
at sho m slash Tim. One more time, that’s shopify.com slash Tim. In 2026,
art sel th Shopify. Creatine isn’t just for muscle. It’s essential
brain, ody, and long-term performance. For me, I have Alzheimer’s and
family ognitive benefits are the reason I take creatine every single day.
sponso ntus, is the gold standard in creatine. There’s a lot of BS floating
e them. ecause they source Crea Pure Creatine, the purest, most effective
e avail o if you’ve been curious about creatine, this is your moment to get
y it fo irst time. Momentus is also now introducing the Momentus
h chew s one gram of pure Crea Pure Creatine monohydrate. I was skeptical of
like, I r going to use these. It turns out that I use them all the time.
nient. y are NSF certified for sports. So you get the gold
hout al ess. Head to livemomentus.com and use code TIM for up to 35%
rder. W t we then begin at the beginning? We are just about to head into
w year. lot of people are thinking ahead with aspirations, goals, hopes,
ion. An e we get into the bucket of tricks, strategies and tactics and so on,
eople w t have much context on your background. Could you briefly explain
s and a ortless, the titles of two of your books respectively? And I’ve thought
, one i to do, the other is how to do it, but that’s not going to give people
etting. ld you mind just taking a moment to explain what the sort of main
re conc these two?
word w focus. Effortless in one word would be simplification. Another way of
essent is figuring out what the right thing is to do and effortless is
ht way. e of the reasons that I wrote both books was because I’d covered some
n essen . But as I’ve traveled around and taught this now, you know,
plus or ions around the world over the last decade, almost nobody got the
n thoug in there, some of it’s in there. Yeah. I know the feeling.
ake res lity for this, but it’s like people heard the first mindset shift
And I hey’re both just as important, just as powerful.
in esse m is, so essentialism has three elements to it. Explore,
Explor s essential as opposed to non-essential, as opposed to the trivial
at are al few things that make all the difference? Exploring that and
hen eli is to actually delete the non-essentials, to remove them. It’s not
what m what’s essential in your life, in your year, in your day. You actually
the stu ‘s getting in the way of those essentials. And then execute is literally
tless a ble to do what matters most. So in there, there’s these two shifts.
al and te the non-essentials. And then once you’ve arrived at that state or in an
ally, y hen saying, okay, well, how do I set up systems? How do I organize
y that ential things happen?
y or yo t day?
hardes
and I’ mmend both books to everybody. Essentialism is one of my most
books t ave. Effortless is similar. And it’s the discipline pursuit of less.
mind, at to do. That is effectiveness would be essentialism. And then
would ciency, is effortless. And I think for myself, if I’m
past y think I’ve been very good at identifying the essential. And
. I hav over-exerting. I have been efforting my way
se esse hings by subconsciously over-complicating them or
sary co ion and obstacles because there is that mantra that was ingrained
, which it’s important and it’s not hard, you are not trying hard enough.
oise, i im to be surgical, there’s nothing wrong with
So let into new year, new you type of discussion. A lot of folks listening
like a challenge, a 60-day reboot, whatever it might be. But you have a
ugh whi look at pegging dates and thinking about these types of landmarks.
on tha se?
n the l re is temporal landmarks. So what almost everybody is familiar
the new new you, we all experienced that. Oh, it’s a new chance.
n this inguishing is it’s like any moment that allows you to distinguish
f. And is is a really helpful cognitive malleability that you have
e an ex become a new version of me, to upgrade myself. So the new year,
y a cha people to do that. It gets a bad name in some sense because people say,
ys, oh, who here has set new year’s resolutions? And then by the 7th of
doing ymore. And I actually think people are really wrong to say
frame that. What we just need is more temporal landmarks so that we say,
ght thi d if it was seven days, well, that was great because that was seven
ave don wise. How else can you select meaningful sort of tagging fresh start
se your ay is a chance to do that, but so could the anniversary. And so could
day or d your child’s birthdays. You can have the first day of the
an addi four. And so identifying meaningful dates, and this is more
ea. And k people would themselves know if they’ve experienced this in
this is You want to increase the number of these you have in 2025 so
of what ed the fresh start effect. You want lots of fresh start effects
etting new you. So I think, yeah, celebrate. If it’s seven days,
weeks i uary, you’re doing that new thing, fantastic. Build in the next one.
ningful f the year? And that’s your next chance to be able to have an
pon som I think all of us are prisoners to the way our mind currently works.
until me observers to it. So I think these temporal landmarks are a chance
oursel it. And the moment we get into that observer role,
ast is ell, it might feel a little esoteric to say this, but
serving That’s the real you. And that observer is not so full of pain,
usion. erver is actually really clear. And so anytime you can use different
that, we can break down projects and anchor them to meaningful dates,
ines, b ingful dates, I think is a good accelerating, encouraging way of
ear.
t I’ve addition to pegging things to dates, I’ve done this somewhat,
ly, the al landmarks is creating landmarks that are effectively tests
trying ove. So I will have, and I already have two or three of these
, which et’s just say, three to 10 day events, which could be a meditation
e somet ry physical at altitude that’s going to require types of fitness
cultiv ause I find them boring. But if I go on this trip with close friends
snuff, y will I suffer, I will be ridiculed and have my balls busted
ends wh d exactly do that. And by having these, I don’t want to say final exams,
t are i to be enjoyable, but they’re only going to be enjoyable if I do the
It bui a lot of incentive and insurance that I will behave myself on some
know I do. Let’s hop into, doesn’t have to be rapid fire, but I want to give
differe epts and tools that they can hopefully contemplate using. And I’ll let
order t to tackle these. Personal quarterly offsite, which is something that
inated ur toolkit. I’ve been fascinated by that for a while. So the personal
the pow hour or half an hour, and then the one, two, three method. Where would
t? That I think is good, actually. The personal quarterly offsite,
nceptua a second, it’s speed over direction. Because we live in a time
to have would describe as counterfeit agility. So you’re moving fast,
fe is f d you’re taking messages, you’re sending messages, you’re doing
y they dd up to a lot of progress towards what matters.
meter i usand directions.
irectio at you don’t want.
That’s The metaphor to go with it, right? You could say, well,
k 90% o ime. It only gets to where it’s supposed to get to at the right
djustin antly. So it’s, what is the forcing function in our lives to make
o far o k and then find, oh my goodness, it’s been five years that I’ve gone
really ldn’t have even been on this journey.
was goi rizona. I’m in North Korea. What happened?
. That e a moment, wouldn’t it? And so personal quarterly offsite,
e it al ay literally. I mean, Anna and I have done this where we’ll travel
ke a we r take a few days possibly and really talk big picture.
ee main ons that I think need to be addressed in a personal quarterly offsite,
re than three, but this is the core of it is one, what are the essential
nderinv in? The second question is what are the non-essential things
in? An perhaps not surprisingly, how can we make it as effortless as possible
that sh hin this next 90 days? Now there’s more sub-questions to it than
hat’s t ion that is so important to identify clearly. And so it doesn’t
as thi h. I mean, I think you could still make meaningful progress in an hour
or with e else. I like doing it with an accountability partner, but even there,
actice fill out this process, you answer these questions yourself,
n you b em together and start talking and get into not negotiation exactly,
workin gh things. And I think that’s one of the primary benefits of a
offsite lly facing the reality that all of us are lost. All of us are
directi l we pause, think about it, get clear again. I do not feel like I’m
st or b t applying these ideas in one sense than anybody else, certainly not
hink I o it faster than maybe the average person. And I think that’s the key.
xample ally a real example, but it doesn’t have to be, but particularly number
he, wha essential that you’re under-investing in? I’m sure I could sit
hat. Wh n-essential that you’re over-investing in? I think I could also come
How can ke it as effortless or make it effortless to make the trade-off? That is
ts the o I would love to hear an example perhaps of how you’ve navigated that
gated. d do it with me or with you right now. I’m game to try it. We’ll see
operate I’m happy to give it a shot. Okay. So let’s just ask these questions
Let’s a little essentialist intervention. Maybe I shouldn’t
et’s tr ure. Well, let’s do it for the whole year. What are candidates for
ential u feel like you’ve been under-investing in? I think what I’ve been
last m hich is something that I need to invest in in almost the most literal
somethi we’ll have a payoff in the long term as it compounds, is physical
g for t and glutes and lower back. Because I’ve had this chronic pain for,
two yea s probably longer, with these brief windows of respite. And
of time I was doing this training very consistently and having intermittent
about, ust call it a month ago, I had a injection in a very particular
the ba tremendously. And I could give a litany of excuses, family,
nd vari ngs. I have been neglecting that, in part because I’m having this
om the ack pain. So it’s not an immediate pressing issue, but I know it will
ay that t’s something essential that I’m under-investing in, even though I
g this lar training as soon as we finish this recording. So it hasn’t
arena. ‘s something that I’ve been inconsistent with that I know is
ell-bei t’d be one. Well, first of all, it’s a great example because
hat’s e l that you’re under-investing in, there are some really predictable
them i inly will be health-related, fitness-related. It’s something
bout, t ir conscience is already tapping them about. But what I have learned
of inv ioritization, which is, I literally believe now that the most important
at any ime is the least likely thing to get done.
with wh e and what I’ve experienced at points. Why do you think that is?
reasons ause it’s so important, the risk of failing at it is much
g else life. So it adds to this procrastination feeling.
.
ce anxi und that important thing because doing something about it shows that
ht show yeah.
d now w back to the beginning on this thing that’s so high stakes.
mportan hing is, the more vulnerable it is. So then you want to avoid,
ld, tha ge is a virtue, but courage always feels terrible. I mean,
ing. It like you imagine when you see other people being courageous.
‘t exis ut the prerequisite of fear. It’s you feel fear and you do the thing
t the f courage as a word and concept doesn’t apply.
re’s lo ayers of reasons that add onto that. One is sort of
sm that procrastination. Well, unless I’m going to do this perfectly,
m reall to do this, unless I’m in the perfect situation,
do it full amount of time. So all of these additional rules.
set up, lly set myself up to fail with the number of checkboxes,
ngth. A e’re talking about this, just in terms of, I’m skipping to the end,
er two, I’m sure I’ve got plenty, but in terms of making it effortless,
I’ve d s in other areas too. It’s just scale it down, right? Don’t
on. If minutes, it’s 10 minutes instead of an hour,
of zer he calendar in terms of missed training sessions. It’s like,
ive min t’s got to be five minutes, but like 60 can be the ideal,
wed is
um and . Like it’s a lower bar, but also the higher bar,
h. And hear you say, oh, well, an hour would be perfect. Or I think
d. I fe whelmed for you. Literally. I’m like an hour that is,
I can’ n hour of physical therapy, even though I’m sure there
be doi And so I like the term microburst for this. That’s an environmental
e these that are just these 10 minute storms are microburst,
g a tim 10 minutes. And the key is that you end at the end of the 10
t you’r the discipline for. And you say, okay, I’m going to do that 10
inutes. en it hits 10 minutes, I’m done. So that the next day, you know,
I real end when it says so. And therefore I’ll carry it on. There’s just
e appli of that. I was just reflecting on this as I was finishing this
get the ne. You know, this is like in January, that will be 14 years
urnal. on’t think I’ve missed a day. I might’ve done, you know,
t all, on’t think I have. But the reason is because my upper bound,
d was f tences and my lower bound was one sentence. And what normally
ls is t t opposite. First day, people write three pages. And by day two,
o, beca day two, they’re like, I don’t have an hour for this.
, I’ll omorrow. And then day three, now they got to do two hours in
it’s ov re they’ve begun. So I think that’s one key thing for you is the 10
it 10 m until I have done 10 days in a row. I’m doing 10 minutes. It’s way,
at litt , than to not do any because you want to do it perfectly.
dvice.
nk ther many things that you could do to make this
t is a book, could be a podcast, but it could be a book or some other
that yo going to get to listen to or a movie, you know, fun show.
me I ge tch that is the 10 minutes that I’m going to do this. And so you
‘ve gon gh so many classics this year because while I’m running,
rcise, ‘m traveling, I’m listening to some of the greatest literature
t almos like I’m, it is like cheat code. I’m cheating the system.
sdom an edge and entertainment poured into me while I’m doing
eally a ng two for the price of one. And so that’s another way to do it.
d have ng function where if you don’t do it, we’ve heard these things before,
it, th have to pay a certain amount to a charity or to a political
choosin ou can create these forcing function bets. I had somebody who
ly impo rade-off they were trying to make and their penalty for not making
be the rite wine was $300 bottle is some, I don’t know wine, but, and
ur down ass of it if he didn’t complete it on this day. And that was his
nd that painful for him that it really gave him an excuse. I mean,
but an to be on track and to be consistent. So I mean, there’s all sorts of
do. Eve ublicly is talking about it here. Okay. Well now everybody knows. I
things try to stack the decks in your favor and to try to remove those
harder t needs to be. Yeah. I mean, I’m, I’m already thinking about a few
s very but for instance, you know, I’m staying due to the circumstances
ff. I’m home. I’m staying in hotels and I need to travel to a location and sign
and so t to do any of this. And so it’s like, all right, look, I’ve
budget uld just go out later today, get a reasonably thick yoga mat and
tel roo n’t actually need anything else. And currently because it’s a
an’t do would intend to do because it’ll be brutally unpleasant on the
ike tha olvable problem, right?
rying t of stack effortless ideas. One does not have to do any of these things.
key. H ou make it effortless? I mean, okay. In a hotel, somebody
o do th you. Like you could find somebody to pay to do it. And that all
h, cham ype of solution, but it’s like, well, that also makes it effortless.
ng to a question and giving your brain enough time to do a Google search
lutions think there’s such a insecure overachiever, there’s such a pushback
ind. We t’s the easy solution? Oh no, no, that can’t be it. That we
e searc ke place. Yeah. Well also as the insecure achiever, which is a label
nd of w ‘ve been talking, that probably characterized me pretty well.
‘re bot is. Yeah. These achiever types often have a
in any of ways because they are good at solving problems. So the inclination
I do X? at’s not how the sentence needs to start, right? The sentence
do thi es me? Or who knows? Maybe Instacart could go get me a yoga mat,
ecessar e to be, you know, Claude the Butler. I’m not suggesting that it’s like,
e my se ry hovercraft down to Scrooge McDuck’s office and we’ll take some gold
imming ut reframing and rephrasing the questions that you habitually ask
omethin try to pay attention to. But my go-to is typically like,
‘s goin ke me too long to get somebody up to speed on all this bullshit.
o it my ow can I do this as easily as possible? But that still presents a
lly in rrent day of automation, getting someone else or someone else
a reta s-a-vis an app to do something like this is available to almost anyone
this p practically speaking.
arren B described it this way. He said, to be alive today in the developed
e oppor more means, more chances for learning and for travel and so on
d. And s such a good reframe for me because you’re talking about
e so ma to make things happen now. And almost all of us do have access to
‘m not to minimize this. It’s the way of thinking that’s outdated.
utter i execution ability in our societies are really pretty unbelievable right
e more worth considering here. One of the principles in effortless is the
sh and t in a shorter period of time. And that’s one of the things you
at’s th sh version, but you’re saying the yoga mat. And I think, well,
that w ut you could also use something else. It doesn’t have to be a yoga
me toda . I’m being, if we wanted to scale that down to dirty prototype,
ll, let t grab some of the towels or something else. And it’s going to
n the a it’s better than nothing, right? It’s better than doing a zero.
to our rs and we’ll be right back to the show.
, for t few years, I’ve been sleeping on a midnight Luxe mattress from
lix Sle lso have one in the guest bedroom downstairs and feedback from friends
tastic. omething they comment on without any prompting from me whatsoever.
a chan est the Helix Sunset Elite. The Sunset Elite delivers exceptional
ng the upport in the right spots. It is made with five tailored foam layers,
yer wit perimeter zoned lumbar support right where I need it,
ith pre am and micro coils that create a soft contouring feel.
night s ial, fast, free shipping, and a 15-year warranty. So check it all
n get 2 anything on their website, so site-wide. So just go to helixsleep.com
time, eep.com slash Tim. With Helix, better sleep starts now.
e. My b ling card game, Coyote, which I made with the amazing team at
just wo op Insider Best Geeky Game of 2025 and also Best Stocking Filler
s Toy A 025. It is on sale everywhere. It’s cheap. It’s fast to learn. It has 4.8
ple are it. CoyoteGame.com will take you to all the retailers, but you can find it
game o ing fast and laughing faster. Thinks charades, meets hot potato, meets a
It’s g your head. It’s perfect for families with kids age 10 plus or adults
rt or d ke themselves too seriously. A lot of adults love this game.
availa rywhere. Amazon, Walmart, Target, 8,000 plus retail locations,
ase che ut. I loved making it. People are really enjoying it. It has 300 or 400
views play online. And try it. Enjoy it this holiday season. Check it out.
more t at’s CoyoteGame.com or anywhere you buy your games. Now, back to the episode.
your t on doing a pre-mortem because I have found that this seems to be something
a bit o ht to. And the reason I bring it up is I think a lot of people
t befor ouchdown, so to speak. And that’s because they don’t think about
. And t e lots of questions maybe they’ve answered, right? And I just came from
We were ng earlier today before recording where we talked about where have we
now? Wh we want to be? We covered a lot of that ground. But one of the
idn’t r hink about as much, we did maybe in some nominal way ask, like,
ers? Bu dn’t explicitly ask, you know, what are the most likely things to
g there ng where we want to go? And that’s something I really want to
ich I’v intermittently, but maybe you could just lay out what that looks like
asping mple that I’m giving. But what is this pre-mortem?
to mak al progress on what’s essential, then using a strategic narrative
way to ut this. I just did a session like this with the leadership of the
s wasn’ nly thing that we did, but this was part of it, was to not to write
here ha been? Where are you now? Where do you want to be? And then this fourth
e focus what is going to keep us from doing it? What’s stopping us? What’s
you hav f these commanders and above drawing, and then we’re looking at all
awing’s st, it’s not just to be fun or gimmick. It’s another forcing function
It’s ea ide behind numbers and too many words and too many bullet points.
te an i t forces a certain part of your brain to light up. And so they did
it ena to do to look at, in this case, an image of what’s going to keep you
outcom at, first of all, it becomes tangible so that you can actually
that m t really be the issue. That is a thought that you have, but that
outdat ght. That’s not really what it is based on an assumption.
ecute i e you try to solve that obstacle. You need to say, well,
tacle? just the way we’ve been doing it in the past? How have we
Every ation, every single organization follows a predictable pattern
ng. Eve ety does the same thing. There’s a brilliant book written about this
alled t apse of complex societies in which he says, look, all societies
use the problems that add too much complexity. And then there’s no mechanism
omplexi r than failure. The most fragile state for society in his analysis
all of sources you have available to maintain the current level of complexity.
n’t mat t the next massive problem is. He studied all these dozens of
that h lapsed and one’s for famine and one’s because of war and one’s because
mean, e use looks different, but he’s like, they’re the same thing.
assive and you don’t have any resources to handle it.
to do o ‘ve asked the question, what’s getting in the way is to just
I thin s getting the way? Is that really the problem? And it’s back to this
h the p not the solution and high performance people and high performance
this ca t high performing commanders and major commanders, I mean,
xecute. e the elite of the elite at being able to make something happen.
how do allenge that strength so that you first go, have we identified
Is this the issue? Why do we think this is the thing? Why do we think this
ay? Tha lly non-trivial part of the thought process. If you really think
nd unlo real issue, which as I say, most people with the curse of competence
not pr ng it. Then of course, now you’re saying, okay, well, we really
e obsta do think this is the problem. Then it’s really creating a lot of buffer
the une , to know that things will come up. I mean, your example that we’ve
sation ight? Like, let’s say, I assume two months ago, you didn’t know this
. And h is, and it’s having all this effect. And it’s like, we don’t know what
, but I anybody, almost any amount of money that they will have such things
t they’ yet prepared for. If you think about the future as only perfect best
are set urself up for really frustrating, stressful, poor execution.
, you t re, like, I think of Phelps, think about Phelps process.
ating t h, Bob Bowman and Phelps, effectively their strategic narrative,
they d terally do it, but drawing out where they’ve been, where they want
et in t The list is a long list, longer than I realized, because of course,
any tim lite level. Well, what really can get in the way at the Olympics
r compe No, they’ve got a long and complex identification of possible
e thing they said, which was interesting to me when I talked to Bob about
, the c ns in China or in any Olympics is that they will be worse than the
d to tr in. That never occurred to me before, because I just sort of
aordina know, you just assume that the athletes are having great experiences,
a. And ke, that’s never how it is. It’s always much more chaotic. There’s
oblems, , the conditions aren’t ideal. So his goal was, how can I make
s norma ssible in really abnormal circumstances?
gs that o, okay, they have a set routine so that he’s there two hours
That’s f buffer, especially for me, who can be quite time blind. You know,
ust sho ght at the time or a couple of minutes late, two hours ahead of time.
ter wha ns, you have buffer now. They’re in the pool following a normal routine
normal though everything’s abnormal. So they’re doing the same thing until 45
s on th ge table, never lies down because it’s routine. You routinize
routini n he comes to the call time, he sits down, puts a towel next to him on
es on t r so that no one can sit next to him. You just don’t need another
other t u can control in the routine. He’s listening to the same music
the boa ump off. He’s getting on always from the left-hand side,
ore he there. All of this is as a result of having identified previously
come u if you do it in this sequence, then you’ve mitigated all those
When h s to jump into the pool, he flaps his arms in a very particular
time. just the physical preparation in advance. He also had mental
es that ed, for example, for 10 years before the Beijing Olympics, he is
ry morn d to put in the videotape. You can see how long it’s been going on
eotape. means to imagine the perfect race from end to end in slow motion.
s exerc ke, what will you do if your goggles fill with water?
y strok ect race, even though your goggles are filled with water,
s of di mental preparation cycles. And in fact, that is what happened in one
goggle ill with water. Which you could just imagine how, if you have never
ever th hrough it psychologically, mentally, that’s it, that’s
, forge lympics. I would hate to try and do that for even a couple of lengths
enjoya d he still is able to win because he’s literally prepared for these
came do hose Olympics, Bob Bowman said to me, he said, I knew it was feasible
uldn’t that it happened as effortlessly as it did. It just, everything clicked
er anot says at the end, he stood, like in the movie, The Miracle,
lway an on his own, just had this moment of sort of exquisite meltdown of like,
een spe ith confidence, but the thing actually executed so beautifully,
ever d before. You know, like somebody described him, if he wins seven gold
ke the an on the moon. If he wins eight, he’ll be like the first man on Mars.
ht. Whe t to the cube in China, I was reflecting on this. How did he make
so effo It’s like, that’s why, you know, that’s why I went and ended up
out thi se I was like, oh, you got to explain it. What went on? What’s behind
t just ent that looks like the moment of execution. It’s what are all
are all tigating things we can do? We’ll build that into the routine.
though h I think is interesting. He said, if you ask Phelps about
even te there is a routine. It’s so normal now. And it was built so
s just nd yet all of it was built in place as anticipation for challenges
at then ole thing feels effortless, fluid, but really it’s because of all
n plann ah. And it’s also, it strikes me not what is holding this back. It
nse, bu now, what could prevent this? I know one very, very successful,
ybe the uccessful consumer packaged goods investors. He’s also a serial
sts in, go to Whole Foods, everything there is CPG. All right. He
s, he s ree years from now, you guys have had a huge dispute and one of you
t are t likely reasons? That’s his question. Like what are the most likely
, there t that can uncork, obviously, if there’s a, if there are already
pointin ay, then he’ll get to see it, but it often will unearth other things
ematic, Maybe there’s an equity split that one person feels is unfair.
er dyna re they’re both trying to split CEO duties 50-50, which I’ve never
and so Right. But having those come up early allows him as an investor to
nd I’m aying here, but he might say, I want to invest. Here are the terms
e to, b ndition of that will be that we fix A, B, and C that you guys brought
right? ‘s a way of sussing out a pre-mortem. And in my case, to focus on
, it’s mple. It’s like, okay, well, if I’m traveling, what happens? Because
e and I ll of my toys and tools and my routine is already established,
t of he nd hawing or figuring out how to order food from room service
great. u need to develop systems and plans and contingencies so that you do
d to do r worst days. The best days will hopefully kind of take care of
world always serve you up perfect days. So in the case of the low back
kay, we hould have yoga mat. I’m just using the yoga mat example pre-ship to
aybe we hotels based on which ones have gyms or yoga mats already in the
e for s ces. But basically put that into a template, right? Maybe that’s a
r for s else where it’s like, okay, I have to book a hotel for location X.
ules? W he template? And then that’s it. It’s just done. Hopefully it’s a
t type ation where it’s like, okay, identify a possible problem,
o possi blem, build that into every time X is done, right? Whatever that X might
ou use n’t a new word to any of us, but brings to mind an extreme and
s is th systems. And I don’t know if you know Rob Dyrdek.
e’s an r. Have you seen the show Ridiculousness?
e. Mayb e. Yeah. I’ll have to look it up.
ican ho os, you know, crazy crashes and terrible things and hilarious.
hows th most famous for now, a big MTV show. Before that, he was famous
g show in Big. And then before that, he was famous as a skateboarder.
ening t know already who Rob Dyrdek is. But in persona, he’s this skateboarder.
and he’ tain kind of version of him. But as I’ve got to know Rob,
my min e intentionality of the system he’s building. I think he’s the second
der in , among many other things. I want to try and capture this because
ument. lled The Rhythm of Experience. I’ve had a lot of people send me kind
and doc and versions of things, right? Like his vision statements and
and goa roles and all sorts of things you might expect to have in there.
ocument s like seeing the future. Every single thing he learns about himself,
ut a pr they just build it into the same single document. Everything. So when
has the think he does it either every week or every two weeks from the time
e’s lik like a Ferrari. We’re just updating the Ferrari. It’s not because
It’s ju cipation. Of course there’ll be problems. So we just build it
o anyth t comes up in those conversations, he doesn’t just go,
d. I’m trying to work on that, going to improve on that. He goes, okay,
unicati about what my schedule is. Okay. So he builds it into the
le morn email of my routine will be sent every day forever going
So she has to have that specific problem again. Everything he learns,
system he isn’t learning the same lesson, you know, like living 20 years,
just l he same year, 20 times. He’s actually gaining 20 years of experience.
questi t his document, the rhythm of experience,
ike the two things, at least just to confirm that I’m understanding this.
hat con earnings and various things. He also has very rapid action
ay, wif the feedback. I don’t know what your schedule is. I want you to
ve for communicate better about that. He’s like, great. From this point forward,
regard edule. But it sounds like that goes into action. How that’s
t know. at does the document do, right? Because if the document
howeve it is, presumably there would have to be some scheduled time for
sing it keaway is that he basically creates a rule and systematizes things
e a hun e-off bandaid solutions, right? There’s like some sort of recurring
ermanen y that he puts in place to address various things.
ment ac used?
m has a o the same document. So it’s not just for him to remember.
brain. what you’re going to first. Like you’re not coming to him,
handle d that? Unless it’s not in that document. It really is. I mean,
the id he difference between working in your business and on your
just ap that to his life in a more sophisticated, developed way than anyone I
I have urprisingly, spent a lot of time thinking about systems. I come up with
and thi , and this. That I have found to be the easy part. I create a document
ates a t. There’s a Google doc. It’s shared with everyone on the team.
the pro doing business week to week, month to month, year to year, there are
documen aside from for specific documents saying, if they’re short enough,
e’s a s hich there is, I have a sort of 12 commandments of Tim’s calendar
t’s lik , like every Wednesday morning review this or something. Okay.
dy put curring calendar item to do that. But otherwise I’m most interested
s the d because there’s a search and discovery challenge sort of inherent
d so on if it’s a single doc, that’s interesting, but that presents its own
ecomes unwieldy, it’s like, Hey, my wife didn’t get the reminder on the
ike, wh nder on the calendar? Well, whatever. And they’re like, Oh,
ied und ellaneous. Why didn’t you find it? And it’s because no human would
that qu here. So I don’t know if there’s any light you can shed on that.
thinki t that, I’m just remembering of other precision things that
ght? So s his haircut once a week at exactly the same time because he likes his
ver hav ink about that. Never have to schedule it. And every time I schedule
et my h every time I think you’re doing this wrong, Greg, because there’s a
that. A ow someone who’s done it and I haven’t done it yet. I mean, what we’re
e diffe etween linear results and residual results, right? So if a linear
ou say, it only happens today if you take action to do it today, right?
ight? Y paid per hour per day. And so you get paid when you work today,
income be, okay, income that rolls to you through all sorts of investments
en you’ ping. So it just is happening automatically. It’s such a game changer
set bet e two. Let’s talk about if you’re open to it and feel free to defer
n a dif thread if you like, but defining done, this is also something that has
on. I’l ou open that in any way that makes sense. But why is it important to
oks lik use insecure overachievers can endlessly complicate any task
e. So j ing the question, what does done look like? And then sticking to it,
hing ha ned, when we’ve reached that point, that is what done will be on
goal. I urse is an accelerating thing to do. And then maybe just
nt way. lmost like a natural law. If you don’t know what done looks
done. fining a done for the day list, I think is really helpful.
l that lly never thought I would do it, I was under contract to create an
anner 1 ago. And after I worked on it for a few months with a team,
eah, I would just be creating something just totally non-essential,
ironic. just, it’s just not helpful enough to anyone. This is just like
like t journal. And I uncommitted, got out of the contract. And then
go, aft carried on trial and error in my own life, applying these ideas,
no, ac I think I have something now that’s special and it works. And
me. I t m ready to actually get into contract and do it. So we did that,
more i ns, removed loads of stuff you would normally have in a planner so that
f just rt of it has a personal quarterly offsite in it as a weekly process.
then a rocess. And the output of the daily process is a done for the
t mean u’ve done these six items and it’s the particular, it’s called the
hods. S ‘s six items total. When you’ve done those six things, you can feel
day an you don’t do anything else, but you know, you have done important
gs, key for tomorrow. And there’s a method to get to that, but a done for the
k, help chologically for removing unnecessary cognitive strain on our minds
petuall . There’s no doing and then not doing times. There’s just
endless g semi-tasks or semi-distractions in a digital world.
method entioned that, that is the one most essential thing, two essential and
three m nce items equals done for the day?
give a le of what that might look like in your own life? What that one,
ed like ht look like?
p just t a second, just to say, okay, this is part of the daily process.
ence be ructure and this protocol. And nobody needs to know that,
that re is, but it’s helpful just to know that that’s the case.
ucture call it the power half an hour, because I basically think,
le, may yone, including me, it’s unrealistic to say,
r whole But if you could take control of half an hour of your life
very ot ute of the other 23 and a half hours, okay,
h retur fort. And if there’s a micro version, you can do it,
sugges ink you can do this well, still have a valuable experience,
es, and sort of a backup, lower bound. But you’re answering three
tioned eviously, but you do it on a daily basis. What, so what,
e struc o that every day you take that noise. So instead of it building up
time, like, you’re just spending that immediately, just getting the
oing on oad. So what? What’s the news in your life? Try to find the
Why doe matter? What does this mean? And then the third thing, the now what
ree met at does it look like for me? Okay. You know, so the priority for
nking a turday, priority for the day on Saturday, my niece is getting married,
hout ou em. And so that’s the priority. And that’s an obvious one, I suppose,
e, you ertain things it’s already structurally built in. I still find it
it bec helps me go, okay, that’s the mission. That’s the priority,
do one today, if I only need to give my attention to one thing today,
to giv tion to. And underneath that, you have, okay, two things that
rgent. I sort of described this as like the taxes of our life. And that was kind
n Satur ght? We’d come into the very end of the year, any final financial
ve sort retirement, taxes, anything, this would be the last day to check.
k those he items that were on there. Maintenance items I describe as like
life, w n be literally the laundry, but I have a car that has one of the tires
on it. ly it’s not normal, simple thing, but if I don’t take care of that,
I have ute it, the task is schedule this or have this organized so that you
three ance items per day are the things that make tomorrow a lot harder
e them Your future self is always grateful that you took care of the
And of this is all just a rule of thumb, this one, two, three,
it so . And I don’t do it every day. I still wish I did.
s that don’t do it, my day is more frenetic, more frantic. I don’t have
he day. ot nearly as satisfying because even though I can still be
d of mo ed way, you don’t know if you’re doing the most important thing.
, I hav ted these things. You don’t have something to come back to going back
y of, o ll, all these things happened that I didn’t expect to happen.
That’s But you don’t have a chance to go, okay, coming back to the most
t’s wor is again. And so that’s an example from just literally this weekend
k about d it just allows you on the days that I’ve done it to enjoy the
o, and se maybe this is the most important benefit is that you actually know
t impor ing, which as previously stated is actually the least likely
at’s of , a very satisfying way to live. So you go through 2025
very da if you and I, if everyone listening to this does the most important
they d ing else different in 2025, there’s no question that would change both
ntum. Y , the whole velocity of the year would be different
ency no the most important thing. And of course, the other things add to that
ore eff approach to doing the things that matter most.
add to hat working on the most important thing gives you a sense of
that s things do not. So it’s not purely the clinical moving of the needle
, becau ly there’s nothing outside of your psychological experience of reality,
g moore ointed in the right direction with the bigger thing psychologically is
lly val It’s not just about whatever the points might be. Sure, the points
y psych lly and psycho-emotionally knowing that you’re working on
ers, ho ou’ve defined that, is I have just found, you know, this past year,
very g of that. And it’s remarkable what that does for your mental health.
that a more in detail. So you’re describing the impact of meaning,
cally k each day, each week and so on, I’m pursuing something that means
has it or you psychologically?
say th e’s a bit more to it just in terms of maybe characteristics when
tant th for instance, for me, there has to be a making or mastery component,
o eithe ing something or I am trying to master something, not just,
side, nage or mitigate. So for instance, even though doing the PT for the low
ncredib rtant. If I decide that is the most important thing per se,
there.
g not t
ar asso with it. It is not an inspiring headspace to inhabit. Now,
be doin know, back PT in the gulag by candlelight. I mean, it doesn’t
e, but n’t have the requisite payoff that I would want in a most important
ds to g , which means that it’s maybe the two essential and urgent things
enance right? But it’s a non-negotiable maintenance.
to have or instance, been working on my first book in seven years,
tastic s. Shocker. It’s become absurdly long.
a short It’s going to be a hell of an accomplishment.
was ju ng to me last night about Tools of Titans. This is the
married
rmally o read. He said 20 minutes a day, but I sat down and
like t s working through it. There’s so much in it. That was
. They t the blue said that. So carry on anyway.
makes m good. That was a fun book to write, which isn’t always
s one a op, which feels very good to get back into as I feel like much
It’s ju you could put out the best thing imaginable in most formats that are
d it wi vanished from the minds of the people that passed in front of
oks sti an interesting place. They have a certain durability. It might not
here’s in durability that I think is really important.
et abou eep. Not just, oh, that’s impressive. It holds a certain place in
l. And d reason. I mean, books have lasted longer than almost anything else.
I’m, a her things, trying to impact lives, I feel like that feels like time
and tha
n the m ide, right? Then I also have been spending a lot of time on
y, whic ery bit as frustrating as golf in a lot of respects. I don’t
talked ot of golfers, and that’s the closest comparison. When it’s going
autiful hen you can’t figure out what you’ve changed to make things go
frustr But it’s become this constant that I can work on, in some cases,
in some big gains. I don’t want to imply that I’m going to master archery,
as if my goal. And there’s an article, let me just pull it up. I want
e credi e, that I’m reading right now on mastery. And it is on
G dot c the name of the piece, which I recommend to folks, it’s actually
s, and ng.com is a reference to Trung Fan, who is the writer.
iro Suz d the pursuit of mastery. Notes from the 1987 Esquire magazine
Jerry d to, quote, pursue mastery because that will fulfill your life,
put th he show notes. But it basically makes the point that if you
or som to approach through the lens of deliberate practice and mastery,
r ends, This may be something you do for an incredibly long period
o highl ifferent archetypes and why they fail to pursue mastery, which I found
that ar sport, that fill in the blank could be your most constant companion
nd ther ething very reassuring about that. So to have that as a through
ity div ation, so that if something goes sideways with the podcast or
ways in life, that you have diversified your psychological health on some
not tot vested in one basket. So I would say that speaks a bit to how
things. aking your mastery versus mitigating risk or managing. That’s how I’ve
it for . And I feel for myself, I need something that is inspiring as the
g. Now, not always going to be the case, right? If you have a family member
emerge ‘s like, okay, that may be the most important thing. But if you have
you ha ability to choose, I want something that’s inspiring because that
reathin nerates energy, it generates the excitement and the life force,
r term, hen trickles down to everything else. But if the thing I choose
ng or i iding something bad, it’s running away from something as opposed
g, then sn’t work for me. It really doesn’t.
erent t here, but one thing that stands out to me is just this idea that
e to ha was described this way to me once, and I liked this, that because life
eed to meaning that justifies that level of suffering.
nking a out this as well.
st famo on in the world about meaning would be Viktor Frankl in his creation
of the rmany concentration camps. He’s a psychologist and a Jew, and he’s going
iences, crafts his story in Man’s Search for Meaning. But just building on
sometim d try to, if he was in therapy with somebody, he would say,
say, oh t want to die. You know, I’m like, I’ve got no reason to live.
now pre the words he would use, but he’s effectively saying, okay, well,
hy have done that? Like, what is it that actually keeps you here then?
ld be a I don’t mean as trivial, but it might sound trivial. It could be,
and I n feed the cat. Those answers were not nothing to him at all.
s sort teway to being able to reconstruct a life of meaning because there’s
ning th be built upon. And so I really think this is an under taught and
ea. And k it distinguishes itself considerably from productivity because you
at all of things like that you shouldn’t even be doing or don’t really
‘t driv You could be doing task execution all day long and feel really
life. something meaningful, something beautiful, something creative as you’re
suming, ng the ratio of consumption to creation, I think is one really
t shift think a lot of people would benefit in. Consuming does not fill
reating ng, even if it’s not very good at first, it’s just being in the act of
s close aning. So I struggle a little bit. People will describe what I’m into.
oductiv ng. I never self-identify that way because like essentialism,
ut, it’ bout doing more things. It’s about doing more of the right things.
word, s very important. It’s trying to craft your life around the highest
u can c y conjure. I think it’s about as good an antidote to the psychological
n of ou that exists. Maybe it’s the only one really. This idea of radical
gratitu xpressing thanks for things you’re not thankful for because that’s
ally is n, if you look at the definition of gratitude, I did not know this
ars ago ught gratitude was a life changer, game changer, and it meant be grateful
in you That is, remember them, express them, focus on them. That’s not the
tude. I ook at the definition of gratitude in the dictionary, what you find is
th a sp thankfulness. And that’s not the same thing because that’s not just
te good . That’s for everything. And as I was thinking about this,
hat was changer for me when my daughter Eve was very ill with an undiagnosed
ion, wh a free falling in her executive function. I found that radical gratitude
rt of t ess of not being able to control the situation and watching some of the
uddenly mentally and physically hugely incapacitated on the way to
I lear there. But as I was talking about it yesterday, when I was sharing
I thoug l, it’s so easy to point back to that because it all worked out in
know, o by and okay, it’s resolved. So I can point back to radical gratitude
it now thought, can I express this idea out loud? Because it sticks in my
I go t about it now. Can I say out loud? I am thankful that my best friend of 35 years
cancer e I want to rage against that, that phrase, that idea. It feels so, I won’t
hat’s n e right, but it is something so violating about that expression. But it’s in the
at you urself. It’s like an act of faith that opens meaning that’s invisible
he firs of the equation. Because opening oneself to the idea that there could
sufferi there’s such a gift in that. So it’s sort of hidden behind this
t to ta expression of it, but I’m grateful for this challenge because
ughts t e to me just yesterday about this was because now I need to live,
uilt wa I need to live double now. Like I cannot just go through life.
e in a living it doubly because he can’t do that now. So the 40 to 50
ybe tha uld have had together, that’s just not happening now. That’s
story. still find that unimaginable is almost impossible for me to get my
ut if t he reality, what’s the possible meaning in it? This I think is like
actual life is to open oneself to the possibility that there is meaning in
fering ecause God is a vivisectionist. That’s C.S. Lewis’s language for it.
cide, h a vivisectionist? Does he take pleasure in suffering or is there
ering? t’s only one answer to this question, but to take responsibility
fferent value the remaining years and hopefully decades differently. It’s like
lity bu to me like a scar, like a scar. I don’t think I could have it taken
‘t thin ut I certainly don’t want it to be. It’s like, no, that scar stays.
nd I wa ive out of that understanding and just try to make good on the
doesn’ And there’s something about that. I mean, I’m obviously still
of all s, but I think that’s one way to detect meaning that can save us,
nk you ring that. I know that can’t be easy to think about and feel,
the op neself to the possibility that you can be grateful, not just
pliftin ositive things, but to tag on that. I am grateful for X difficult
dot, do e the mind to hopefully produce something that engenders meaning
ed with ing. Yeah. Plenty for me to chew on there too.
experi th it, but it’s also, you can go back and follow the trail of
, you k e whole post-traumatic growth literature. That is those
ugh tra don’t just, first of all, there’s sort of three options, right? You can
. There me people that return to level as before. That would be kind of the
And th e’s this other phenomenon happens less often, but it does happen
fied, c rized, codified, and studied is people that move to a higher level
trauma. , you know, we’ve all been very familiar with PTSD. Post-traumatic growth
which too bad because I think that’s really the thing you want to
ere is hat we can, in tangible ways, have beauty for ashes. That it’s not
It’s n nice to have. It’s like, if there’s so much suffering and those
ls thro ch we can actually build a life of meaning, it’s like, oh, okay. So
ce it d tly, not spend my whole life just trying to avoid it or to,
of pos oxicity.
d it.
.
right, to drive for the rest of my life without hitting any red lights.
going . So you might as well figure out how to handle red lights.
or for a will say to me, you know, from time to time,
hout a experience. And there’s a term for this, it’s called sonder.
that, erience of sort of remembering and knowing that other people’s
and emo y challenging and so on as our own. And it’s not obvious all the
asy to with shallow stories about other people.
it from . Oh, well, that person’s all right, you know, because they,
as mone cause that person’s famous or because that person’s,
o be ab fray. And it’s like, I actually think it’s a sort of a limit of
nly lim mpathy, but to realize like, no, not one of those people is
experi suffering that all of us are. Yes. Maybe they have different set of
hey hav ble solutions that you wish you had access to. I mean,
e in di positions in life, but man, I have never met a person that could
o escap It’s like, you can’t, it’s hardwired into, I don’t want to call
but lik ou say it is for a moment, it’s like, yeah, it’s hardwired into this.
t. This I think so many people try to actually pursue distraction of any
ause of empt to avoid the pain and suffering. And I think most addictions
the cor oid the experience of being alive. And that’s because it’s so painful
Can be.
ve to t to open yourself to the meaning. Well, this isn’t happening for me,
know a way to get there than radical gratitude.
that, nd just to reiterate something you said earlier about,
n turn ries of others into these NPC, like extras and video games where
now, si plained in one sentence, whereas we have this raging torrent of
experi nd a few things come to mind. One, and I wish I had the attribution on
aid, yo everyone is fighting a battle you know nothing about. Number one.
viewed osch, very well-known basketball player on the podcast. And I’m pretty sure
, and s else had said this to him, you know, if you’re sitting at a table
ut thei ems on the table, you did the same. He’s like, you would pick your
up. He , once you saw actually what everyone was contending with.
rscore cause I think that’s such a strange phenomenon. At Stanford University,
al Chur you go into that, it’s a non-denominational church from the very
carve e all of these key ideas. And one of them is basically what you just
peat it hat is a strange phenomenon. There is something that that gives me a
w, a so litch in the matrix in that illustration that even for the discomfort
leness pain and the frustration of our problems, something about them
yond ju ‘re familiar to us. I think they are connected to us. If I were
osophic ould say something like, maybe we knew we’d have these, like we actually
o choos or not, like pre here. And it certainly has that kind of vibe to
hare it m sort of just having it hit me again. It’s like, yeah, we actually
ems. Oh There is something in them that there’s something like stepping stones
unique to become next, to become more and more of who we really are and
o we re en’t, which is, you know, that’s the real essence of essentialism.
to do’s en goals. It’s like a becoming process. And these are the raw
it. It toxic positivity because it’s not pretending there aren’t problems
there a hallenges. It’s to open oneself to the possibility that there’s no
s is th o becoming who we’re supposed to become. I’m not saying every single
ke that ot saying the flat tire is the thing. I’m not saying it like that.
life ar lly, some of them in my life have felt signature, that they really are
ense, p arly excruciatingly hard for me. But even in that,
the oth of it, like, no, but that means it was done with a high degree of care,
‘s a re fferent way to live. And I’m still obviously just learning in that
cipline it of meaning.
ext boo e’ve covered a lot of ground. I think this will give folks a lot of
things w on for the next year, where they want to point themselves,
ink abo ing, suffering, mastery, choosing the most important thing. We’ve
here an else we are going to talk about where people can find
anner a perhaps get started learning more about principles that we’ve
re? But re anything else that you’d like to cover, whether concepts or
hing at at you’d like to add before we wind to a close?
resting sation with Eric Newton, who took to social media. I didn’t know him
he’d l from the biggest suffering in his life, which was, well,
his wif escribed their relationship prior to this as having lots of
he des it as a sort of fantastic love affair, but then also he describes
d chall hat I had him on my podcast once I’d read this because someone sent
this i ar to the kinds of things you’re wrestling with. And what’s,
sting a e story is that it wasn’t just when she got this diagnosis that
was pos where she got into what turned out to be the last six weeks of her
regret he regret was not having been deeply connected enough with the people
. And I t that was such a distinct kind of insight. He said, she suddenly
vulner and intimacy that he literally didn’t know existed. Not just in their
st didn it existed in life. To have someone be so honest, so open,
hose la the onion that, you know, to go back to that metaphor.
s, he w , okay, this actually is love. They’ve been married for years
s and d verything. He’s like, this is what it actually means. And
mething his. He’s like, if there’s a purpose in any of it,
deepeni ection with the people who matter most to you.
ouched . I was touched by a story. I was fascinated by that story.
walked th was, how do you live like that normally? Is there a skill set
t one o things that you would have to have that extremity to be able to
links some of this research I’ve been doing on Carl Rogers,
that th way that we can at least get a lot closer to that ideal in normal
kind o bly better form of listening than almost anybody experiences in life.
s learn t’s there. It’s available, but almost nobody’s trained in it.
t are r rained in Rogerian listening is like psychotherapists,
And if ven’t been, the risk is enormous that they will make problems worse
make t ter, because they simply won’t be addressing anything like the right
ttackin eaves of the problem, not the roots of the problem. And they
hey’ll n their own mental models of solutions instead of getting to what the
that’s ple that are trained in it, or to some extent trained in it.
the do hat aren’t trained in it. That’s what happened with Eve. It’s just
ory for erent day. But there were doctors with all this training that
hey kne was wrong with her. If we had done what they had said,
And it’ bout their expertise. In a sense, their expertise was the
t have ility to be listening properly. And so I think that’s the thing I want to
ink tha is a form of listening that we can provide for each other that
t’s so e. And I do sometimes think it’s the primary thing missing
son jus it to me recently. I mean, there’s so many things I’ve got wrong
erson. just said that if there was ever a problem, I knew I could come,
d liste ven if it was something you were doing that was frustrating,
sten. T ot passive listening. It’s a very particular kind. And
h that. really, really want to help people learn how to do this with each
people stay informed of your now pending class related to
Yeah, y want to do this. I’m not kidding about it. It’s not just a
I wasn’ ing on talking about it. So it is spontaneous, but I really think
I mean nk people could just, the easiest single thing, go to
page. T get right now, what we do have right now is a less but better course.
free. T sign up in 10 seconds. And then we will send information about
or for f a better term courses on there and we’ll do them live. And like,
r how t is because it’s everything. Thank you, Greg. Really appreciate
the fl ty with scheduling. It’s always a pleasure to have a conversation with
ody lis as always, we’ll have everything that we’ve discussed linked to in
.blog.c ast. And if you search Greg, so McEwen, certainly you can also try
W-N. An will be the most recent episode as of right now. And until next time,
you fo g in, everybody. And be just a bit kinder than is necessary,
but al ourself as you’re looking forward to the next year.
up ove year. Just see if you can plan for not just a better,
year. you not just do the important things, but do the joyous things?
t do th things, but find ways to make those important things a little
ortless These are all questions worth considering. Thanks, everybody.
im agai one more thing before you take off. And that is Five Bullet Friday.
ting a mail from me every Friday that provides a little fun
Betwee nd a half and two million people subscribe to my free newsletter,
letter Five Bullet Friday. Easy to sign up, easy to cancel. It is
ge that out every Friday to share the coolest things I’ve found or discovered
loring at week. It’s kind of like my diary of cool things. It often includes
g, book eading, albums, perhaps gadgets, gizmos, all sorts of tech tricks
sent to my friends, including a lot of podcast guests. And these strange,
up in d and then I test them and then I share them with you.
un, aga s very short, a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off
mething nk about. If you’d like to try it out, just go to tim.blog
that in browser, tim.blog slash Friday. Drop in your email and you’ll get the
ks for ng. Creatine isn’t just for muscle. It’s essential daily fuel for your
d long- rformance. For me, I have Alzheimer’s and dementia risk in my family,
its are ason I take creatine every single day. And today’s episode
is the andard in creatine. There’s a lot of BS floating around,
Why? Be hey source CreaPure creatine, the purest, most effective
e avail o if you’ve been curious about creatine, this is your moment to get
y it fo irst time. Momentus is also now introducing the Momentus
h chew s one gram of pure CreaPure creatine monohydrate. I was skeptical of
like, I r going to use these. It turns out that I use them all the time.
nient a are NSF certified for sports. So you get the gold standard purity
s. Head emomentus.com and use code TIM for up to 35% off of your first order.
ld dog, the early 2000s, back in the day when I was running my own e-commerce
were a s. They tried hard. But man, was it bad. You had to cobble all sorts of
ould on m of a platform like Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind
ses aro world. And now 10% of all e-commerce in the US is on Shopify. Now back to
en nobo thought of AI. Who could have predicted, even in the last 24 months, the magic
e with pify has been ahead of the curve and they are packed with helpful AI tools
e every Write product descriptions, page headlines, even enhance your
. Best Shopify expertly handles everything from managing inventory to
ing, pr g returns and beyond. If you’re ready to sell, you’re ready for Shopify.
per mo al and start selling today at shopify.com slash TIM. One more time,
slash T 2026, stop waiting and start selling with Shopify.
Greg McKeown is the author of two New York Times bestsellers, Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less and Effortless: Make It Easier to Do What Matters Most. 200,000 people receive his weekly 1-Minute Wednesday newsletter, and he recently released The Essentialism Planner: A 90-Day Guide to Accomplishing More by Doing Less.
Sponsors:
Momentous high-quality creatine for cognitive and muscular support: https://livemomentous.com/Tim (Code TIM for 35% off your first subscription.)
Shopify global commerce platform, providing tools to start, grow, market, and manage a retail business
Helix Sleep premium mattresses: https://helixsleep.com/tim
Coyote the card game, which I co-created with Exploding Kittens: https://coyotegame.com
*
Show notes: https://tim.blog/2025/01/09/personal-reboot-greg-mckeown/
*
For show notes and past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast.
For deals from sponsors of The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast-sponsors
Sign up for Tim’s email newsletter (5-Bullet Friday) at tim.blog/friday.
For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts.
Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books.
Follow Tim:
Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss
Instagram: instagram.com/timferriss
YouTube: youtube.com/timferriss
Facebook: facebook.com/timferriss
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/timferriss
Past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show include Jerry Seinfeld, Hugh Jackman, Dr. Jane Goodall, LeBron James, Kevin Hart, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Jamie Foxx, Matthew McConaughey, Esther Perel, Elizabeth Gilbert, Terry Crews, Sia, Yuval Noah Harari, Malcolm Gladwell, Madeleine Albright, Cheryl Strayed, Jim Collins, Mary Karr, Maria Popova, Sam Harris, Michael Phelps, Bob Iger, Edward Norton, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Neil Strauss, Ken Burns, Maria Sharapova, Marc Andreessen, Neil Gaiman, Neil de Grasse Tyson, Jocko Willink, Daniel Ek, Kelly Slater, Dr. Peter Attia, Seth Godin, Howard Marks, Dr. Brené Brown, Eric Schmidt, Michael Lewis, Joe Gebbia, Michael Pollan, Dr. Jordan Peterson, Vince Vaughn, Brian Koppelman, Ramit Sethi, Dax Shepard, Tony Robbins, Jim Dethmer, Dan Harris, Ray Dalio, Naval Ravikant, Vitalik Buterin, Elizabeth Lesser, Amanda Palmer, Katie Haun, Sir Richard Branson, Chuck Palahniuk, Arianna Huffington, Reid Hoffman, Bill Burr, Whitney Cummings, Rick Rubin, Dr. Vivek Murthy, Darren Aronofsky, Margaret Atwood, Mark Zuckerberg, Peter Thiel, Dr. Gabor Maté, Anne Lamott, Sarah Silverman, Dr. Andrew Huberman, and many more.
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Leave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment.