AI transcript
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Episode 314 through and for Zurich are covering St. Louis, Missouri in 1914
World War one began and the world’s first red and green traffic lights were installed in Cleveland
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I don’t know, but I wish you hurry up. It’s getting painful
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Welcome to the 314th episode of the prop 2 pod daddy’s vacation continues so in place of our regular scheduled programming
We’re sharing an episode of fixable a podcast from the Ted audio collective that features a live
Conversation between yours truly and host and Morris and Francis Frye from the Ted 2024 conference back in April
And is a CEO and best-selling author and Francis Fray is a Harvard business professor on the fixable podcast
They give you weekly episodes solving listeners toughest work problems with meaningful and actual insight in 30 minutes or less
The episode we’re sharing today explores a lot of today’s most pressing issues including the loneliness epidemic inclusion in the workplace and personal success
So with that here’s fixable live a conversation with yours truly
Scott Galloway. I’m self-conscious saying my name
Hey everyone, welcome back to another week of fixable
We have something really special for you today a few weeks ago
Francis and I traveled to Vancouver to attend the Ted conference and while we were there
We taped a live episode of the show our very first live episode our first but not the last
Oh, it’s far from our last. It was too much fun
We had a really good time and we had a special guest with us who we will introduce in just a minute
But we got to talk about some really interesting aspects of life and leadership and the world right now
Yes, I think we’ve covered DEI masculinity
Gen Z in the workplace the big three, baby
Yes in a shocking turn of events. We also covered the power of emotions something our listeners know I care a lot about
So today we’re sharing part of that conversation with you and hopefully we’ll get to do another live show sooner rather than later
So stay tuned
Well Scott Galloway welcome to fixable. Thanks for having me and congratulations on your fabulous talk go on
So desperate and addicted to your affirmation so daddy can I have some more?
For our listeners and for anyone who missed it you you really just killed it up there
Well, so how this is gonna work. This is actually our first live show. So thank you all for thank you for coming
Being part of the experiment. Yeah, anything can happen up here
And we’re gonna talk for a while then we’re gonna do some direct live Q&A with the audience
So we want to start by saying nice things about you Scott if you’ll indulge us
We are very big fans of yours like most lesbians. Thanks for saying that. Yeah
Ladies who love ladies also love Scott Galloway. Oh, it’s all right. Thank you for that
And I want to come back to that with a serious
Okay point before this conversation is over, but let’s start with who you are for the record. You’re
Professor at NYU Stern. You’re a best-selling author. You have a new book dropping
Momentarily the algebra of wealth a simple formula for financial security
Your founder advisor to countless organizations
You’ve been on the board of some of our most iconic companies including New York Times
You are a beloved podcaster
best known for prof G and for co-hosting pivot with celebrity lesbian Kara Swisher, and your
Husband father of two growing boys. Is there anything you want to add to that list any plot points?
We miss before we dive into no, I just want to say I’m really enjoying this podcast so far
Scott as you play all of these various roles in the world, it seems like you are
Driven by a higher mission a purpose something bigger than yourself right now
Is that how you think about your work? And how would you articulate your mission? It’s not as noble
As you’re saying my first obligation is to me and my family
I’ve been very driven by economic success, and I’m not proud of that. I didn’t grow up with a lot of money
So from day one I had two goals. I wanted to be rich and awesome
literally that’s what I wanted and
then I got one of those things and
You I got blessed at an early fairly early point in my life with like okay
I have some reasonable semblance of economic security. What do I want to do?
And I decided I wanted to teach the thing that’s been really super rewarding is
Kind of falling into this topic of struggling young men
It’s like, you know, you find something and it just resonates and you see the data and you think people aren’t talking about it
And it was like putting on something that felt so comfortable for me because I was one of those men right right growing up
I didn’t have a great deal of economic success
I didn’t have a lot of romantic success and I thought if I faced the same
Incredibly well resourced technology companies trying to convince me to have a reasonable facsimile of life
Behind a screen with algorithms that I didn’t need a job
I could trade crypto on Coinbase or trade stocks on Robin hood that I didn’t need to go out and take the risk of finding friends
I could find them on Reddit or discord that I didn’t need to endure the rejection and start working out and have a plan such
That I could be attractive to women and endure the rejection that is inevitably part of mating
I just could have been one of these guys, right? I relate to these young men
It’s like there by the grace of God goes I so I can speak to it
I think with some relevance and I just saw a tremendous opportunity
There’s so many advocates for so many groups and because
People who look like me have had so much advantage for so long
There’s a lack of empathy despite the data
For how just how much young men are struggling that they’re paying for the sins of the advantage that I had and my dad had
But if you look at the stats three times as likely to kill themselves twelve times as likely to be incarcerated in the US
We’re gonna have two to one male to female to male college grads
It’s also really bad in my view for women because women if we’re gonna have an honest conversation around mating
At least in the hetero world women made socioeconomically horizontally and up men horizontally and down and the pool of men
Who are horizontal and up is shrinking and some of that is a huge victory because women are doing really well
And we should do nothing to get in the way of that
The thing I saw was that there was this unproductive conversation
Because of this void filled by what I call the manasphere where was this thinly veiled misogyny?
It starts offline
They highlight the problems and then they talk about being fit and taking control
And then it just comes off the rails and they start talking about women as if they’re property and that they need to you need to show
Off your masculinity by yeah, it’s a slippery slide
And and then I wouldn’t take my crypto university course
So I thought there was a an opportunity for okay. How do we start talking about an aspirational vision for masculinity?
That says empathy is not a zero-sum game gay marriage did not hurt heteronormative marriage civil rights did not hurt white people
So being an advocate for young men who are facing real issues is in no way
Anti-women this is when a man has failed is when he starts blaming women or he starts blaming immigrants
Then you know we’ve lost him
And that he has given up on a truly modern form of masculinity
So I just I saw an opportunity it felt good in a resonated with a marketplace and it just kind of come
organically
Let’s talk about DEI for a second sure just to get the crowd warmed up
We’ll go to the easy stuff first. Yeah. Yeah, it seems like DEI it’s at its best and we get pulled into a lot of these conversations
it seems like this work at its best really is about making workplaces fair and inclusive for everyone on the payroll and
One of the things that I think we get stuck on in person
I want to get you in here is that there should be
Just tremendous room for common ground here
Not only because the goals are shared, but when you actually do get it, right?
Everybody wins. Yep
how do we talk about it or
Do this work in a way that really does bring more people into it
professor and
We wrote an op-ed for the New York Times with our colleague
Carrie Elkins that said, you know the mistake that be the critics of BEI get is it works
Like all of the progress you were talking about it all happened because people understood the demographic tendencies associated with success
They didn’t want to have outcome based success. I’ve never met a DEI program that wants her to be outcome based
It’s all equal access. We’ve been having unequal access to me
I think there is all of this common ground, but I don’t think that that’s what’s behind the desire to tear it down
I think the desire to tear it down has much more to do with misogyny and much more to do with racism
We always want to step over race always want to step over race and get to someone else and
It’s the stain on this country. We have never stopped
and
Confronted what our issues are with race. So I find there to be simmering
Misogyny and racism and I don’t find it any more complicated than that and I adore people who want to go towards the socio-economic
I grew up poor as well
But please stop stepping over race to get there. It’s the wrong thing to do
I mean one of the things that I get stuck on is when we actually get into the trenches of doing this and
Roll up your sleeves and do the work of trying to make organizations better
Mm-hmm. There is real progress you can make within the constraints of changing organizations. I mean there’s a famous
Statistic that seventy percent of change efforts fail. So great
So DEI is tracking roughly to that seventy percent
But you don’t throw out the goals of the work you you learn from the thirty percent that is working and it feels like there’s an
just an absence of grace and an absence of
Charity and compassion around this conversation right now that feels like it’s
It’s there’s something else going on that there’s something else going on and the
Just back to where we started that the to me
it’s the opportunity cost that is so painful because you speak to young men in crisis and
When this work is done well
They are brought into the fold and give an opportunity that they didn’t have before and so I think the frustration that we
are both feeling right now is that
We’re getting so distracted by the conversation about DEI that we’re stop putting energy into actually making progress on it
I think there’s so much nuance here. I think it’s such an interesting. I love the word use grace
That we shouldn’t be afraid to talk about this and you say something not elegant
Or I say something not elegant and that person is cancelled or that we shame them and we get virtue points for shaming them
Because first off, I’m the beneficiary of affirmative action. I got Pell grants
I had unfair advantage
Raised by a single immigrant mother lived and died a secretary our household income was never over forty thousand dollars
And so I feel passionate about that and also if you’re born and this is wonderful in
America, I believe now you have more advantage or less disadvantage if you’re born gay
Or if you’re born non-white than if you’re born poor and it didn’t used to be that way the academic gap
achievement gap in 1960 was double
between black and white then between rich and poor and now it has flipped and
There’s this wonderful progress that it’s not as tightly correlated any longer about race or sexual orientation
so my view is all right, do we need to recalibrate what it means the criteria for who we advantage or disadvantage and
Where I think we can come together is that about 70% of
Those criteria overlap
But if you’re from a non-white family where there’s two parents and mom is a bollared or law firm and making a shit ton of
money that kid
Has a greater likelihood of attending college than some white kid from Appalachia
so I
Think we can come together and say look the key is to recognize some people have
Disadvantage through no fault of their own but also recognize that things have changed I
I don’t know how much time you spend with professional DEI professionals or in DEI
Parts of organizations they’re amongst the most compassionate people big-tent people they care about
socioeconomic they care about veterans they care about race they care about gender so this straw man of DEI
Cares only about this and they will somehow advantage and by the way, I’ve never seen these groups advantaged
I’ve just seen the disadvantages closed or attempting to do it
But DEI is big-tent and what you’re arguing for is big-tent
That’s the part that I genuinely don’t understand is we seem to agree and
Yet we want to tear down the very thing that in its absence. It’s gonna be hard to
Take care of people that are disadvantaged. They say it’s for big-tent reasons
But literally they’ve not spent any time with any of the DEI professionals
I’ve spent time with which is at almost every large company in the world
So I don’t understand the vitriol behind it, which is why I think there’s something cruel behind it
I don’t think it’s a it doesn’t feel logical to me
Well, I think you have to discern between so for example where I think some people have made the mistake is they like the attention
They get accolades from people and then they decide that they’re going to go after all DEI without understanding nuance
I think DEI still has relevance and corporations. I don’t think corporations have come as far as campuses
You know when there’s what is it? There’s more CEOs named John and female
I think I think women just caught up to John just caught up to John
So what that says is all right
But if you look at people under the age of 30 women have made huge progress on almost every level
Sometimes they’re actually superseding them because they’re getting more educational attainment
But something happens and then what I think the data reflects is once you decide to leverage your ovaries
Wham the corporate world doesn’t like you once a woman has decides that kids she goes to 77 cents on the dollar
That means there is neither a quality of opportunity or a quality of outcomes
So I think DEI still has a place in corporations. I would argue professor that at most universities
We have done a pretty good job
And again, I go back to you see that I think it’s going to be a more productive conversation where we can all agree on
Getting to a similar place where there’s more support universal around alumni alumni and faculty
Where it’s based on income as opposed to based on visible characteristics. I also think it does harm to people of color
When their classmates sometimes often question if and why they’re there. I think that they pay the price for that
So I think it requires a lot of nuance
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Let’s talk about those young people graduating going into the workforce
There’s a lot of chatter about
Gen Z at work and we got a lot of great questions about what do I do with my Gen Z employees?
Do you find that this is truly a different generation?
I mean to me it feels like they just have the courage to ask for things that we should have asked for
Should have asked for
It’s a double-edged sword for the most part. They’re a superior generation evolution works
They’re more facile with technology. They understand the world better. They’re more civic-minded. They’re most social-minded
they’re also I find more emotionally fragile and
That because of over parenting helicopter parenting, which I’m capable of because of social media
Because we clear out the obstacles for them by the time they get to college
They have a bit of a princess in the peace syndrome and that is the first time they get their heart broken
The first time they get a C the first time they face some sort of injustice
They have real issues. I think they’re too emotionally fragile
I love what the the Dean or the Chancellor of Michigan State put up the banner on freshman orientation
She put up a banner that said if words offend you call your parents and tell them you’re not ready for college
You know, I get some I used to get so many emails from department heads about
Microaggressions and I thought isn’t the point that we’re supposed to turn them into warriors
That they’re supposed to really and by the way that they let me just in represent
So how does how do organizations do that because they’re all these?
companies and teams absorbing
This generation. Mm-hmm. How do leaders build resilience in a very practical?
Show called fixable. So in a very practical way, how do leaders of teams with Gen Z?
team members build resilience in in this
newest generation the workforce
well, I
Think I think you’re gonna forget more about this and I’m gonna know I
Am somewhat cynical about a corporation’s role what I have found is generally speaking
For-profit companies are so good in America at making money. They should be trusted to do nothing else. I
Don’t think social media is gonna protect our children. I don’t think they give a flying fuck about your kids
Or let me put it this way. I think they’re amoral. I don’t think they’re bad people. I think they’re amoral
I think their job is to make money and they will make a series of incremental decisions on the path to hell
Such that they can become rich and America to be rich is to be loved
It’s to be respected admired have a broader selection set of mates to give your kids health care
So you will make incremental decisions that end up hurting other people that maybe aren’t in your neighborhood
We need laws
We need laws that said we’re gonna see your company if you discriminate
We’re gonna see your company if you send a 14 year old girl who’s having suicidal ideation and email saying here’s some images on
Suicide we thought you might like and the in the email includes images of nooses pills and razors that happened in the UK
So there’s notion that we’re gonna call on CEO’s better angels and that they’re gonna become social engineers
You want to be a good company? You want to be a good in the community?
But I think we need less virtue signaling from companies and less expectations from them and we need more laws
I just don’t trust companies to figure this shit out. I trust them to to put out Instagram saying black lives matter
Okay
What does that mean or to stand up and say I recognize we’re on hallow grounds of native America
You’re gonna give it back if not shut the fuck up
So I think we need more laws, but I’m a bit cynical about
Companies as this whole Bono red agents of change
I think their job is to provide people with economic security
And I think it’s our job to have laws to ensure that if you are making less money because of your gender
Or your sexual orientation that we hit that company really hard in court
I mean really hard and create an algebra of deterrence that says accidentally unwittingly if you’re paying this group less
We’re gonna really hit you so hard such that you put in place the practices to ensure it does not happen again
But I think we
fetishize these corporations and their leaders so much that we expect their better angels to show up and every new
Sam Altman the hush tones. I’m worried about AI. Yeah, we should think about that
I’ve seen what this can do. I’m really concerned. We’ve had 40 congressional hearings on child safety online. We’ve had zero laws
But we think Sam Altman’s gonna be different. We can’t trust these people. We can trust them to do what they’re good at
Which is make money so I find a lot of these initiatives quite frankly our virtue signaling and aren’t that effective and then we need laws
All right, so I’m gonna go to the audience for questions. Yeah, we’re gonna go for and so this is our last question
And then we’re gonna bring in our fabulous Ted audience. This is my serious question about your lesbian fan club
And this is my theory of the case. All right, one of the gifts of being queer and
There are many there are many for the record
but you have more freedom to stand in front of the list of human attributes that the world has labeled masculine and feminine and
decide
What’s gonna work for you? Yeah
You are
Fiercely competitive. You have lots of protector energy. You’re also very willing to cry in public for example
You seem to have given yourself this same freedom
Which in my experience is quite rare
You’re being generous as lesbians. We applaud you game recognizes game
But what?
What made that possible for you? Yeah, I never thought that crying would be such an attribute
I didn’t cry from age of 29 to 44. I didn’t cry my mother died. I didn’t cry when my I got divorced
I didn’t cry when my company went chapter 11 for 15 years. I didn’t cry. I forgot how and
My biggest fear I think about death a lot. It’s actually quite empowering my biggest fear is I’m at the end and
I struggle with anger and depression, which means I’m in the past too much
I have trouble forgiving myself. I did made a couple mistakes on stage today. I’m gonna beat myself up all fucking night tonight
I won’t be able to forgive myself. I’ll feel good. I’ll go online
And I know I can tell by the vibe that I’ll get a bunch of nice compliments. I’m too addicted to other people’s affirmation
It’s really pathetic. Oh, you’re human Scott. No, anyways for God’s sakes. I’m 59 at some point. I’ll just need me
But my fear is I’m so stuck in the past and I’m so in the future all the time because I’m successful and to be successful
You have to be constantly thinking about the future that I’m never actually here and you get to the end of your life
And you think okay
Unbelievable prosperity people that love me that I loved immensely was never there
Never there and one of the ways I have discovered I can slow down and be in the moment is to really lean into my emotions
When I find something funny, I force myself to laugh out loud. I have a weird unattractive laugh
But it informs what I find interesting when I’m inspired by something I
Stop and I think why does this move me?
I’m much more a
Motive if I see a guy who looks cool. I’ll go up to my seat. I just think you look so fucking cool boss and
It puts me in the moment and it makes me it’s like okay. I’m finally living my life
because I can register those emotions so my advice to
People especially men is if you aren’t leaning into your emotions
If you aren’t inspired if you’re not laughing if you’re not just loving this shit out of sex and communicating how much you’re enjoying it
If you’re not crying
You’re not really here. I can guarantee you at the end of your life
You’re not gonna go. Geez. I wish I cried less. I wish I’d laugh less. I wish I’d told people how cool I
Thought they were less. So for me, it’s like cathartic. It’s like fucking finally. I’m living my life
Did you make a decision? What happened at 44 to start crying again?
It wasn’t any one thing and I don’t know if you feel this way. I’m gonna start crying you just brought out the man in me
I’m gonna say
I’m unleashed
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Well, we got a bunch of great submitted question, but I want to reward people who showed up here
So if you have a question raise your hand, we have some
Lovely mic runners and please introduce yourself. My name is Chadburn. I’m long time to turn and just so thrilled that you’re here
Thank you for organizing this. Thank you. There’s a statement in our culture at least in America that I grew up with which is no pain
No gain. Mm-hmm. How do you feel about suffering? Do you think you have to suffer to be successful?
well, okay, so I
Do a survey of my kids when I say my kids and me my students every year
how much money do you expect to make by the time you’re 30 and
They expect to be in the top 2% of income earners by the time they’re 30 and
Then they use the word balance
No, okay
Do you have rich parents?
No
Give up on the balance part. I’m not suggesting you can’t stay fit. I’m not suggesting you can’t find a maid
I’m not suggesting you can’t have a good time
But unless you’re smart enough to be born rich if you want to be wealthy in a competitive economy
Plan to do pretty much nothing but work for 20 years
That’s what I found
I’ve had periods in my life where I’ve had balance been in great shape good relationships. That’s usually when I’m losing money
And from the age of 25 to 45, I’m not proud of this. I did nothing but work. I
Mean almost nothing. I tried to work out
I still found time to drink and try and have the occasional mating opportunity
but for the most part I just worked because I wanted economic security and
what I tell young people is they can have it all they just can’t have it all at once and
So I have a sober conversation with yourself. And by the way, I’m not saying that’s the right way. It was my way
It cost me my hair
It cost me my first marriage
It cost me a lot of stress and it was worth it
Because now I have a great deal of balance in my life
And so I just suggest all young people have a an honest conversation around the trade-off
So you can have it all you can’t have it all at once
You know Jay-Z followed his passion and got rich assume you are not Jay-Z
That’s a great question
I’ve got two kids that are 10 and 12 and
It dawned on me. I’m 52. It dawned on me about a year ago. I was sitting in a
case study class with Harvard Business School folks and they were teaching us about authentic leadership and
Ethics and diversity and all these great things about how to run great companies and I was like man
I’ve been pretty successful in my life. I’m just learning some of this stuff now. What if I learned this when I was my kid’s age
What if I learned this when I was 10 when I was 12?
So I started sharing some of those concepts with my 10 and 12 year old and found they could grok it
And I’m just curious, you know, two things one what’s something you wish you knew when you were 10 or 12?
That would have helped you have been a better leader and
How would you have taught it to your kid or to yourself or to the kids that you were surrounded with if there’s one skill?
Someone asked me. I was kind of go to business if there’s one skill I could give my kids
It would be not computer programming or STEM or biology or Mandarin or anything
I try and teach them and I’m trying to do this my kids to be storytellers. I
Think that is the the skill that stands up to the test of time. You want to be an entrepreneur. You got to be a great storyteller
You want to score above your weight class?
Romanically you got to have a good rap
And your ability to communicate your ideas in a compelling way to either raise money
To handle difficult situations with people to attract
someone of high character
To be friends it comes down to storytelling
So that is the one skill I’d want to give the kids
but
You know, I mean I have teenagers all the time calling me and asking me for advice
My 16 year old has never asked me for advice on almost anything
And it’s kind of heartbreaking. It’s like, do you know how important I am among young men?
So I don’t know I would just I would just want to tell myself
You know figure out storytelling and everything’s gonna be fine
You guys have any thoughts you have sons the conversation. We’ve been having recently around the dinner table is
about comfort with discomfort being the ultimate superpower and
That all of their hopes and dreams are in the zone of discomfort. And so if they can get even a little bit more comfortable
With even this the physicality of being uncomfortable. That’s great. Then then it life opens up
I love that dramatic ways. I love that. So just along the lines the thing I love about
I don’t know if you’re encouraging your boys to do sports or kind of competitive academic whatever it is
the thing I took away from crew
was at some point it was such a gift to me and I was easily the worst athlete at UCLA is that
At one point the air coming down your esophagus is literally on fire. You can’t feel your legs
You are about to pass out. I’m not exaggerating. You’re about to pass out
that’s at 800 meters and you go to 2000 and
What it gave me was it when I’m really like so depressed. I see no way out. I’m at my limit
I cannot work any harder. I cannot take this emotional disappointment anymore. I’m so upset at myself
I just can’t handle anymore what crew and sports gave me as a young man as I realized when you’re at that point
You’re actually about at a third of your limit. Yes, our older boy
Decided to wrestle this year to great sport. It’s a great sport as a mom to watch
Very hard to watch because he would just go and get the ship beat out of him
He’s never been happier. He’s never had more confidence
It’s amazing. I mean now he does pull-ups every night until exhaustion
Yeah, it’s been the most amazing thing. Love that
People will often say what’s the key to your success on my rejection?
I ran for sophomore class president junior class president senior class president lost all three times based on my track record
I ran for student body president where I went on to wait for it lose
Applied to nine schools got into one way listen. I mean rejection. Oh my god
I can’t tell you how many women have rejected me and
That’s the key
Never losing your sense of enthusiasm
And so your son the fact that he’s losing wrestling matches and is still enthusiastic about it
That is a gift. That is a gift. That’s what we tell him every morning at breakfast
Send them back out there. Yeah
Bring home an L bring home another L. Don’t get it big guy. Don’t get it. Yeah, that’s great
All right. Well, I think we have to wrap there. It’s a great way to end
Thank you Scott you’re you’re a total star and it was our privilege to host you on the stage
Thank you
Thanks everybody
Thanks for listening if you want to figure out your workplace problem together, please send us a message
We would love to have you on the show email fixable at Ted comm or called two three four fixable
That’s two three four three four nine two two five three
And if you’re under the age of 35, you can also text us
Honestly any way you want to communicate with us. We are delighted to hear from you
We are so grateful for everyone who’s written called texted. We couldn’t make the show without you quite literally
Fixable is brought to you by the Ted audio collective and Pushkin Industries. It’s hosted by me and Morris and me Francis Frye
Our team includes Izzy Carter, Constanza Gallardo, Ban Ban Chang, Michelle Quint, Corey Hagem, Alejandra Salazar and Roxanne Highlash
This episode was mixed by Louie at Story Yard
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Episode 314 through and for Zurich are covering St. Louis, Missouri in 1914
World War one began and the world’s first red and green traffic lights were installed in Cleveland
How do you get a dual-ed toaster out of your rectum?
I don’t know, but I wish you hurry up. It’s getting painful
What does that have to do with anything nothing I just love asplay jokes
Welcome to the 314th episode of the prop 2 pod daddy’s vacation continues so in place of our regular scheduled programming
We’re sharing an episode of fixable a podcast from the Ted audio collective that features a live
Conversation between yours truly and host and Morris and Francis Frye from the Ted 2024 conference back in April
And is a CEO and best-selling author and Francis Fray is a Harvard business professor on the fixable podcast
They give you weekly episodes solving listeners toughest work problems with meaningful and actual insight in 30 minutes or less
The episode we’re sharing today explores a lot of today’s most pressing issues including the loneliness epidemic inclusion in the workplace and personal success
So with that here’s fixable live a conversation with yours truly
Scott Galloway. I’m self-conscious saying my name
Hey everyone, welcome back to another week of fixable
We have something really special for you today a few weeks ago
Francis and I traveled to Vancouver to attend the Ted conference and while we were there
We taped a live episode of the show our very first live episode our first but not the last
Oh, it’s far from our last. It was too much fun
We had a really good time and we had a special guest with us who we will introduce in just a minute
But we got to talk about some really interesting aspects of life and leadership and the world right now
Yes, I think we’ve covered DEI masculinity
Gen Z in the workplace the big three, baby
Yes in a shocking turn of events. We also covered the power of emotions something our listeners know I care a lot about
So today we’re sharing part of that conversation with you and hopefully we’ll get to do another live show sooner rather than later
So stay tuned
Well Scott Galloway welcome to fixable. Thanks for having me and congratulations on your fabulous talk go on
So desperate and addicted to your affirmation so daddy can I have some more?
For our listeners and for anyone who missed it you you really just killed it up there
Well, so how this is gonna work. This is actually our first live show. So thank you all for thank you for coming
Being part of the experiment. Yeah, anything can happen up here
And we’re gonna talk for a while then we’re gonna do some direct live Q&A with the audience
So we want to start by saying nice things about you Scott if you’ll indulge us
We are very big fans of yours like most lesbians. Thanks for saying that. Yeah
Ladies who love ladies also love Scott Galloway. Oh, it’s all right. Thank you for that
And I want to come back to that with a serious
Okay point before this conversation is over, but let’s start with who you are for the record. You’re
Professor at NYU Stern. You’re a best-selling author. You have a new book dropping
Momentarily the algebra of wealth a simple formula for financial security
Your founder advisor to countless organizations
You’ve been on the board of some of our most iconic companies including New York Times
You are a beloved podcaster
best known for prof G and for co-hosting pivot with celebrity lesbian Kara Swisher, and your
Husband father of two growing boys. Is there anything you want to add to that list any plot points?
We miss before we dive into no, I just want to say I’m really enjoying this podcast so far
Scott as you play all of these various roles in the world, it seems like you are
Driven by a higher mission a purpose something bigger than yourself right now
Is that how you think about your work? And how would you articulate your mission? It’s not as noble
As you’re saying my first obligation is to me and my family
I’ve been very driven by economic success, and I’m not proud of that. I didn’t grow up with a lot of money
So from day one I had two goals. I wanted to be rich and awesome
literally that’s what I wanted and
then I got one of those things and
You I got blessed at an early fairly early point in my life with like okay
I have some reasonable semblance of economic security. What do I want to do?
And I decided I wanted to teach the thing that’s been really super rewarding is
Kind of falling into this topic of struggling young men
It’s like, you know, you find something and it just resonates and you see the data and you think people aren’t talking about it
And it was like putting on something that felt so comfortable for me because I was one of those men right right growing up
I didn’t have a great deal of economic success
I didn’t have a lot of romantic success and I thought if I faced the same
Incredibly well resourced technology companies trying to convince me to have a reasonable facsimile of life
Behind a screen with algorithms that I didn’t need a job
I could trade crypto on Coinbase or trade stocks on Robin hood that I didn’t need to go out and take the risk of finding friends
I could find them on Reddit or discord that I didn’t need to endure the rejection and start working out and have a plan such
That I could be attractive to women and endure the rejection that is inevitably part of mating
I just could have been one of these guys, right? I relate to these young men
It’s like there by the grace of God goes I so I can speak to it
I think with some relevance and I just saw a tremendous opportunity
There’s so many advocates for so many groups and because
People who look like me have had so much advantage for so long
There’s a lack of empathy despite the data
For how just how much young men are struggling that they’re paying for the sins of the advantage that I had and my dad had
But if you look at the stats three times as likely to kill themselves twelve times as likely to be incarcerated in the US
We’re gonna have two to one male to female to male college grads
It’s also really bad in my view for women because women if we’re gonna have an honest conversation around mating
At least in the hetero world women made socioeconomically horizontally and up men horizontally and down and the pool of men
Who are horizontal and up is shrinking and some of that is a huge victory because women are doing really well
And we should do nothing to get in the way of that
The thing I saw was that there was this unproductive conversation
Because of this void filled by what I call the manasphere where was this thinly veiled misogyny?
It starts offline
They highlight the problems and then they talk about being fit and taking control
And then it just comes off the rails and they start talking about women as if they’re property and that they need to you need to show
Off your masculinity by yeah, it’s a slippery slide
And and then I wouldn’t take my crypto university course
So I thought there was a an opportunity for okay. How do we start talking about an aspirational vision for masculinity?
That says empathy is not a zero-sum game gay marriage did not hurt heteronormative marriage civil rights did not hurt white people
So being an advocate for young men who are facing real issues is in no way
Anti-women this is when a man has failed is when he starts blaming women or he starts blaming immigrants
Then you know we’ve lost him
And that he has given up on a truly modern form of masculinity
So I just I saw an opportunity it felt good in a resonated with a marketplace and it just kind of come
organically
Let’s talk about DEI for a second sure just to get the crowd warmed up
We’ll go to the easy stuff first. Yeah. Yeah, it seems like DEI it’s at its best and we get pulled into a lot of these conversations
it seems like this work at its best really is about making workplaces fair and inclusive for everyone on the payroll and
One of the things that I think we get stuck on in person
I want to get you in here is that there should be
Just tremendous room for common ground here
Not only because the goals are shared, but when you actually do get it, right?
Everybody wins. Yep
how do we talk about it or
Do this work in a way that really does bring more people into it
professor and
We wrote an op-ed for the New York Times with our colleague
Carrie Elkins that said, you know the mistake that be the critics of BEI get is it works
Like all of the progress you were talking about it all happened because people understood the demographic tendencies associated with success
They didn’t want to have outcome based success. I’ve never met a DEI program that wants her to be outcome based
It’s all equal access. We’ve been having unequal access to me
I think there is all of this common ground, but I don’t think that that’s what’s behind the desire to tear it down
I think the desire to tear it down has much more to do with misogyny and much more to do with racism
We always want to step over race always want to step over race and get to someone else and
It’s the stain on this country. We have never stopped
and
Confronted what our issues are with race. So I find there to be simmering
Misogyny and racism and I don’t find it any more complicated than that and I adore people who want to go towards the socio-economic
I grew up poor as well
But please stop stepping over race to get there. It’s the wrong thing to do
I mean one of the things that I get stuck on is when we actually get into the trenches of doing this and
Roll up your sleeves and do the work of trying to make organizations better
Mm-hmm. There is real progress you can make within the constraints of changing organizations. I mean there’s a famous
Statistic that seventy percent of change efforts fail. So great
So DEI is tracking roughly to that seventy percent
But you don’t throw out the goals of the work you you learn from the thirty percent that is working and it feels like there’s an
just an absence of grace and an absence of
Charity and compassion around this conversation right now that feels like it’s
It’s there’s something else going on that there’s something else going on and the
Just back to where we started that the to me
it’s the opportunity cost that is so painful because you speak to young men in crisis and
When this work is done well
They are brought into the fold and give an opportunity that they didn’t have before and so I think the frustration that we
are both feeling right now is that
We’re getting so distracted by the conversation about DEI that we’re stop putting energy into actually making progress on it
I think there’s so much nuance here. I think it’s such an interesting. I love the word use grace
That we shouldn’t be afraid to talk about this and you say something not elegant
Or I say something not elegant and that person is cancelled or that we shame them and we get virtue points for shaming them
Because first off, I’m the beneficiary of affirmative action. I got Pell grants
I had unfair advantage
Raised by a single immigrant mother lived and died a secretary our household income was never over forty thousand dollars
And so I feel passionate about that and also if you’re born and this is wonderful in
America, I believe now you have more advantage or less disadvantage if you’re born gay
Or if you’re born non-white than if you’re born poor and it didn’t used to be that way the academic gap
achievement gap in 1960 was double
between black and white then between rich and poor and now it has flipped and
There’s this wonderful progress that it’s not as tightly correlated any longer about race or sexual orientation
so my view is all right, do we need to recalibrate what it means the criteria for who we advantage or disadvantage and
Where I think we can come together is that about 70% of
Those criteria overlap
But if you’re from a non-white family where there’s two parents and mom is a bollared or law firm and making a shit ton of
money that kid
Has a greater likelihood of attending college than some white kid from Appalachia
so I
Think we can come together and say look the key is to recognize some people have
Disadvantage through no fault of their own but also recognize that things have changed I
I don’t know how much time you spend with professional DEI professionals or in DEI
Parts of organizations they’re amongst the most compassionate people big-tent people they care about
socioeconomic they care about veterans they care about race they care about gender so this straw man of DEI
Cares only about this and they will somehow advantage and by the way, I’ve never seen these groups advantaged
I’ve just seen the disadvantages closed or attempting to do it
But DEI is big-tent and what you’re arguing for is big-tent
That’s the part that I genuinely don’t understand is we seem to agree and
Yet we want to tear down the very thing that in its absence. It’s gonna be hard to
Take care of people that are disadvantaged. They say it’s for big-tent reasons
But literally they’ve not spent any time with any of the DEI professionals
I’ve spent time with which is at almost every large company in the world
So I don’t understand the vitriol behind it, which is why I think there’s something cruel behind it
I don’t think it’s a it doesn’t feel logical to me
Well, I think you have to discern between so for example where I think some people have made the mistake is they like the attention
They get accolades from people and then they decide that they’re going to go after all DEI without understanding nuance
I think DEI still has relevance and corporations. I don’t think corporations have come as far as campuses
You know when there’s what is it? There’s more CEOs named John and female
I think I think women just caught up to John just caught up to John
So what that says is all right
But if you look at people under the age of 30 women have made huge progress on almost every level
Sometimes they’re actually superseding them because they’re getting more educational attainment
But something happens and then what I think the data reflects is once you decide to leverage your ovaries
Wham the corporate world doesn’t like you once a woman has decides that kids she goes to 77 cents on the dollar
That means there is neither a quality of opportunity or a quality of outcomes
So I think DEI still has a place in corporations. I would argue professor that at most universities
We have done a pretty good job
And again, I go back to you see that I think it’s going to be a more productive conversation where we can all agree on
Getting to a similar place where there’s more support universal around alumni alumni and faculty
Where it’s based on income as opposed to based on visible characteristics. I also think it does harm to people of color
When their classmates sometimes often question if and why they’re there. I think that they pay the price for that
So I think it requires a lot of nuance
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Let’s talk about those young people graduating going into the workforce
There’s a lot of chatter about
Gen Z at work and we got a lot of great questions about what do I do with my Gen Z employees?
Do you find that this is truly a different generation?
I mean to me it feels like they just have the courage to ask for things that we should have asked for
Should have asked for
It’s a double-edged sword for the most part. They’re a superior generation evolution works
They’re more facile with technology. They understand the world better. They’re more civic-minded. They’re most social-minded
they’re also I find more emotionally fragile and
That because of over parenting helicopter parenting, which I’m capable of because of social media
Because we clear out the obstacles for them by the time they get to college
They have a bit of a princess in the peace syndrome and that is the first time they get their heart broken
The first time they get a C the first time they face some sort of injustice
They have real issues. I think they’re too emotionally fragile
I love what the the Dean or the Chancellor of Michigan State put up the banner on freshman orientation
She put up a banner that said if words offend you call your parents and tell them you’re not ready for college
You know, I get some I used to get so many emails from department heads about
Microaggressions and I thought isn’t the point that we’re supposed to turn them into warriors
That they’re supposed to really and by the way that they let me just in represent
So how does how do organizations do that because they’re all these?
companies and teams absorbing
This generation. Mm-hmm. How do leaders build resilience in a very practical?
Show called fixable. So in a very practical way, how do leaders of teams with Gen Z?
team members build resilience in in this
newest generation the workforce
well, I
Think I think you’re gonna forget more about this and I’m gonna know I
Am somewhat cynical about a corporation’s role what I have found is generally speaking
For-profit companies are so good in America at making money. They should be trusted to do nothing else. I
Don’t think social media is gonna protect our children. I don’t think they give a flying fuck about your kids
Or let me put it this way. I think they’re amoral. I don’t think they’re bad people. I think they’re amoral
I think their job is to make money and they will make a series of incremental decisions on the path to hell
Such that they can become rich and America to be rich is to be loved
It’s to be respected admired have a broader selection set of mates to give your kids health care
So you will make incremental decisions that end up hurting other people that maybe aren’t in your neighborhood
We need laws
We need laws that said we’re gonna see your company if you discriminate
We’re gonna see your company if you send a 14 year old girl who’s having suicidal ideation and email saying here’s some images on
Suicide we thought you might like and the in the email includes images of nooses pills and razors that happened in the UK
So there’s notion that we’re gonna call on CEO’s better angels and that they’re gonna become social engineers
You want to be a good company? You want to be a good in the community?
But I think we need less virtue signaling from companies and less expectations from them and we need more laws
I just don’t trust companies to figure this shit out. I trust them to to put out Instagram saying black lives matter
Okay
What does that mean or to stand up and say I recognize we’re on hallow grounds of native America
You’re gonna give it back if not shut the fuck up
So I think we need more laws, but I’m a bit cynical about
Companies as this whole Bono red agents of change
I think their job is to provide people with economic security
And I think it’s our job to have laws to ensure that if you are making less money because of your gender
Or your sexual orientation that we hit that company really hard in court
I mean really hard and create an algebra of deterrence that says accidentally unwittingly if you’re paying this group less
We’re gonna really hit you so hard such that you put in place the practices to ensure it does not happen again
But I think we
fetishize these corporations and their leaders so much that we expect their better angels to show up and every new
Sam Altman the hush tones. I’m worried about AI. Yeah, we should think about that
I’ve seen what this can do. I’m really concerned. We’ve had 40 congressional hearings on child safety online. We’ve had zero laws
But we think Sam Altman’s gonna be different. We can’t trust these people. We can trust them to do what they’re good at
Which is make money so I find a lot of these initiatives quite frankly our virtue signaling and aren’t that effective and then we need laws
All right, so I’m gonna go to the audience for questions. Yeah, we’re gonna go for and so this is our last question
And then we’re gonna bring in our fabulous Ted audience. This is my serious question about your lesbian fan club
And this is my theory of the case. All right, one of the gifts of being queer and
There are many there are many for the record
but you have more freedom to stand in front of the list of human attributes that the world has labeled masculine and feminine and
decide
What’s gonna work for you? Yeah
You are
Fiercely competitive. You have lots of protector energy. You’re also very willing to cry in public for example
You seem to have given yourself this same freedom
Which in my experience is quite rare
You’re being generous as lesbians. We applaud you game recognizes game
But what?
What made that possible for you? Yeah, I never thought that crying would be such an attribute
I didn’t cry from age of 29 to 44. I didn’t cry my mother died. I didn’t cry when my I got divorced
I didn’t cry when my company went chapter 11 for 15 years. I didn’t cry. I forgot how and
My biggest fear I think about death a lot. It’s actually quite empowering my biggest fear is I’m at the end and
I struggle with anger and depression, which means I’m in the past too much
I have trouble forgiving myself. I did made a couple mistakes on stage today. I’m gonna beat myself up all fucking night tonight
I won’t be able to forgive myself. I’ll feel good. I’ll go online
And I know I can tell by the vibe that I’ll get a bunch of nice compliments. I’m too addicted to other people’s affirmation
It’s really pathetic. Oh, you’re human Scott. No, anyways for God’s sakes. I’m 59 at some point. I’ll just need me
But my fear is I’m so stuck in the past and I’m so in the future all the time because I’m successful and to be successful
You have to be constantly thinking about the future that I’m never actually here and you get to the end of your life
And you think okay
Unbelievable prosperity people that love me that I loved immensely was never there
Never there and one of the ways I have discovered I can slow down and be in the moment is to really lean into my emotions
When I find something funny, I force myself to laugh out loud. I have a weird unattractive laugh
But it informs what I find interesting when I’m inspired by something I
Stop and I think why does this move me?
I’m much more a
Motive if I see a guy who looks cool. I’ll go up to my seat. I just think you look so fucking cool boss and
It puts me in the moment and it makes me it’s like okay. I’m finally living my life
because I can register those emotions so my advice to
People especially men is if you aren’t leaning into your emotions
If you aren’t inspired if you’re not laughing if you’re not just loving this shit out of sex and communicating how much you’re enjoying it
If you’re not crying
You’re not really here. I can guarantee you at the end of your life
You’re not gonna go. Geez. I wish I cried less. I wish I’d laugh less. I wish I’d told people how cool I
Thought they were less. So for me, it’s like cathartic. It’s like fucking finally. I’m living my life
Did you make a decision? What happened at 44 to start crying again?
It wasn’t any one thing and I don’t know if you feel this way. I’m gonna start crying you just brought out the man in me
I’m gonna say
I’m unleashed
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Well, we got a bunch of great submitted question, but I want to reward people who showed up here
So if you have a question raise your hand, we have some
Lovely mic runners and please introduce yourself. My name is Chadburn. I’m long time to turn and just so thrilled that you’re here
Thank you for organizing this. Thank you. There’s a statement in our culture at least in America that I grew up with which is no pain
No gain. Mm-hmm. How do you feel about suffering? Do you think you have to suffer to be successful?
well, okay, so I
Do a survey of my kids when I say my kids and me my students every year
how much money do you expect to make by the time you’re 30 and
They expect to be in the top 2% of income earners by the time they’re 30 and
Then they use the word balance
No, okay
Do you have rich parents?
No
Give up on the balance part. I’m not suggesting you can’t stay fit. I’m not suggesting you can’t find a maid
I’m not suggesting you can’t have a good time
But unless you’re smart enough to be born rich if you want to be wealthy in a competitive economy
Plan to do pretty much nothing but work for 20 years
That’s what I found
I’ve had periods in my life where I’ve had balance been in great shape good relationships. That’s usually when I’m losing money
And from the age of 25 to 45, I’m not proud of this. I did nothing but work. I
Mean almost nothing. I tried to work out
I still found time to drink and try and have the occasional mating opportunity
but for the most part I just worked because I wanted economic security and
what I tell young people is they can have it all they just can’t have it all at once and
So I have a sober conversation with yourself. And by the way, I’m not saying that’s the right way. It was my way
It cost me my hair
It cost me my first marriage
It cost me a lot of stress and it was worth it
Because now I have a great deal of balance in my life
And so I just suggest all young people have a an honest conversation around the trade-off
So you can have it all you can’t have it all at once
You know Jay-Z followed his passion and got rich assume you are not Jay-Z
That’s a great question
I’ve got two kids that are 10 and 12 and
It dawned on me. I’m 52. It dawned on me about a year ago. I was sitting in a
case study class with Harvard Business School folks and they were teaching us about authentic leadership and
Ethics and diversity and all these great things about how to run great companies and I was like man
I’ve been pretty successful in my life. I’m just learning some of this stuff now. What if I learned this when I was my kid’s age
What if I learned this when I was 10 when I was 12?
So I started sharing some of those concepts with my 10 and 12 year old and found they could grok it
And I’m just curious, you know, two things one what’s something you wish you knew when you were 10 or 12?
That would have helped you have been a better leader and
How would you have taught it to your kid or to yourself or to the kids that you were surrounded with if there’s one skill?
Someone asked me. I was kind of go to business if there’s one skill I could give my kids
It would be not computer programming or STEM or biology or Mandarin or anything
I try and teach them and I’m trying to do this my kids to be storytellers. I
Think that is the the skill that stands up to the test of time. You want to be an entrepreneur. You got to be a great storyteller
You want to score above your weight class?
Romanically you got to have a good rap
And your ability to communicate your ideas in a compelling way to either raise money
To handle difficult situations with people to attract
someone of high character
To be friends it comes down to storytelling
So that is the one skill I’d want to give the kids
but
You know, I mean I have teenagers all the time calling me and asking me for advice
My 16 year old has never asked me for advice on almost anything
And it’s kind of heartbreaking. It’s like, do you know how important I am among young men?
So I don’t know I would just I would just want to tell myself
You know figure out storytelling and everything’s gonna be fine
You guys have any thoughts you have sons the conversation. We’ve been having recently around the dinner table is
about comfort with discomfort being the ultimate superpower and
That all of their hopes and dreams are in the zone of discomfort. And so if they can get even a little bit more comfortable
With even this the physicality of being uncomfortable. That’s great. Then then it life opens up
I love that dramatic ways. I love that. So just along the lines the thing I love about
I don’t know if you’re encouraging your boys to do sports or kind of competitive academic whatever it is
the thing I took away from crew
was at some point it was such a gift to me and I was easily the worst athlete at UCLA is that
At one point the air coming down your esophagus is literally on fire. You can’t feel your legs
You are about to pass out. I’m not exaggerating. You’re about to pass out
that’s at 800 meters and you go to 2000 and
What it gave me was it when I’m really like so depressed. I see no way out. I’m at my limit
I cannot work any harder. I cannot take this emotional disappointment anymore. I’m so upset at myself
I just can’t handle anymore what crew and sports gave me as a young man as I realized when you’re at that point
You’re actually about at a third of your limit. Yes, our older boy
Decided to wrestle this year to great sport. It’s a great sport as a mom to watch
Very hard to watch because he would just go and get the ship beat out of him
He’s never been happier. He’s never had more confidence
It’s amazing. I mean now he does pull-ups every night until exhaustion
Yeah, it’s been the most amazing thing. Love that
People will often say what’s the key to your success on my rejection?
I ran for sophomore class president junior class president senior class president lost all three times based on my track record
I ran for student body president where I went on to wait for it lose
Applied to nine schools got into one way listen. I mean rejection. Oh my god
I can’t tell you how many women have rejected me and
That’s the key
Never losing your sense of enthusiasm
And so your son the fact that he’s losing wrestling matches and is still enthusiastic about it
That is a gift. That is a gift. That’s what we tell him every morning at breakfast
Send them back out there. Yeah
Bring home an L bring home another L. Don’t get it big guy. Don’t get it. Yeah, that’s great
All right. Well, I think we have to wrap there. It’s a great way to end
Thank you Scott you’re you’re a total star and it was our privilege to host you on the stage
Thank you
Thanks everybody
Thanks for listening if you want to figure out your workplace problem together, please send us a message
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Fixable is brought to you by the Ted audio collective and Pushkin Industries. It’s hosted by me and Morris and me Francis Frye
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This is an episode we think you’d enjoy of Fixable, a podcast from the TED Audio Collective.
Hosts Anne and Frances sat down with the Dawg for a conversation on loneliness, resilience, inclusion in the workplace, raising healthy boys, and what it takes to be personally and financially successful. They wrap up with an unexpected emotional audience Q+A.
Fixable is a podcast hosted by two of the top leadership coaches in the world: CEO and best-selling author Anne Morriss and her wife, Harvard Business Professor Frances Frei. Together, talk to guest callers about their workplace issues and solve their problems – in 30 minutes or less. You’ll always be left with meaningful and actionable advice that can apply to you no matter your position on the company ladder.
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