All The Hacks: Life, Finance and Health (#49)

0:00:02 – We’re gonna talk about life hacks, finance hacks,
0:00:04 health hacks, you’re kind of this Swiss army knife
0:00:06 of optimization of all things.
0:00:07 – Oh, this is the thing.
0:00:09 I like having better outcomes
0:00:10 and I don’t like spending money on it.
0:00:14 And that’s led to a life of research and…
0:00:18 – You put me on a Singapore Airlines flight.
0:00:19 – That was first class.
0:00:19 – First class.
0:00:21 It was crazy because you paid for it all on points.
0:00:24 – If you want to make your points go really far,
0:00:25 something like what you did in Singapore Suite,
0:00:26 ooh, here’s what you should do.
0:00:28 – That’s your superpower basically.
0:00:29 Let’s talk about some of the other hacks
0:00:30 that you’ve been up to.
0:00:32 Biohacks, this is kind of new for you.
0:00:35 I don’t know that you’ve been a massive biohacker.
0:00:37 – Having kids really jumpstarted this,
0:00:38 like I need to be healthy.
0:00:40 And so that’s pushed me to say, what do I need to do?
0:00:42 What do I need to dial in?
0:00:43 What kind of exercise do I need to do?
0:00:46 – November of last year, my blood pressure was high.
0:00:47 I have a small brain aneurysm.
0:00:50 And you were like, oh dude, I got this crazy hack.
0:00:51 This is some crazy shit.
0:00:52 Yeah, so.
0:00:55 – Hey everyone, Kevin Rose here.
0:00:57 Welcome to another episode of The Kevin Rose Show.
0:00:59 Today I’m talking to my dear friend, Chris Hutchins.
0:01:02 We are talking about all the hacks.
0:01:04 We’re talking about life hacks, finance hacks,
0:01:06 personal health and longevity hacks.
0:01:09 He, of course, is the host of the podcast, All the Hacks.
0:01:11 Let’s get into it right after this.
0:01:16 So I recently used a scanner that goes out there and looks
0:01:18 and sees what information is available.
0:01:20 And no surprise, my phone number,
0:01:24 my email, multiple email addresses, my physical address,
0:01:26 all the information was out there because of data breaches.
0:01:30 You hear about these data breaches like every single week.
0:01:31 Now it’s crazy.
0:01:33 And I’m sure you’ve heard about the importance
0:01:35 of freezing your credit reports.
0:01:36 Like that’s a no-brainer.
0:01:38 Of course you have to do that.
0:01:40 But that’s not gonna stop your personal data
0:01:44 from being resold through something called data brokers.
0:01:47 Now these are absolutely evil corporations
0:01:50 that resell everyone’s data.
0:01:52 And when your data is out there and a hacker can just tap
0:01:54 into it or someone that’s fishing,
0:01:56 you can just tap into it and grab it.
0:01:56 They can use this.
0:01:59 They can use it to call, say, your cell phone provider,
0:02:00 try and do a SIM swap.
0:02:03 They can use that information to try and reset passwords
0:02:06 or to facilitate phishing scams.
0:02:08 Not to mention they can even use your home address
0:02:10 and find photos of your house,
0:02:14 sometimes even the interiors on the MLS website.
0:02:15 So what do you need to do?
0:02:17 You have to remove that data.
0:02:19 And I found the best service out there to do this,
0:02:20 it’s called Delete Me.
0:02:24 So they use a power of attorney to work on your behalf
0:02:26 to find and methodically remove your data
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0:02:31 And then they also continuously monitor these sites
0:02:33 and keep removing data as it shows up,
0:02:36 which unfortunately with all these data breaches
0:02:37 it constantly does.
0:02:40 So I gave it a try and it’s a fantastic service
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0:02:54 Use the code kevinrose, all one word.
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0:02:59 Protect yourself, protect your family
0:03:01 and a huge thank you to Delete Me
0:03:02 for sponsoring the show.
0:03:07 This episode is brought to you by Manscaped.
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0:04:58 Chris, great to have you, man.
0:05:00 – Dude, I’m excited to be in this new studio.
0:05:03 – This is the first time I’ve actually broken
0:05:04 in the studio in this way.
0:05:05 This is the real setup.
0:05:07 We got the lights, got all the multiple cameras.
0:05:09 Like you’re the first real guest.
0:05:10 – This is a real thing.
0:05:11 – The real thing.
0:05:12 Thanks for flying down.
0:05:13 – Yeah, I’m excited to be here.
0:05:15 – So for people that don’t know,
0:05:17 I mean, you and I go way back.
0:05:19 We have like started a company together.
0:05:20 We sold it to Google.
0:05:22 We ended up working at Google together.
0:05:24 – A lot of commutes.
0:05:26 – Yeah, a lot of commutes.
0:05:29 – We talked about faking our own injuries
0:05:31 so we wouldn’t have to commute
0:05:33 and we could work from home before that was a thing.
0:05:34 – They called it vest in peace.
0:05:37 Remember where like you would just like vest your stock
0:05:41 and like try not to have to do the commute down to Google.
0:05:42 ‘Cause it was an hour and a half
0:05:44 to get down there from San Francisco.
0:05:45 If we were lucky, it was brutal.
0:05:46 – Traffic was bad.
0:05:47 – Yeah.
0:05:49 But I will say since then,
0:05:51 obviously you’ve gone to do your own thing.
0:05:52 You have your podcast now,
0:05:54 all the hacks with Chris Hutchins.
0:05:56 – Yep.
0:05:58 – You, that made complete sense to me.
0:06:00 I remember when you were first talking to me
0:06:04 about doing a podcast and you know,
0:06:09 you have always been someone where every friend of yours
0:06:12 hits you up, it must be all the time,
0:06:15 about like little tiny things,
0:06:19 little tiny hacks that are both life optimization,
0:06:22 travel optimization, like you name it,
0:06:24 you’re kind of this Swiss Army knife
0:06:27 of optimization of all things.
0:06:29 Is that accurate or how do you frame it?
0:06:31 – I like having better outcomes
0:06:32 and I don’t like spending money on it.
0:06:36 And that’s led to a life of research
0:06:38 and optimization and relationship building
0:06:40 to try to get to the bottom of it.
0:06:43 – Was the first time that you actually had a breakout moment,
0:06:45 was that when you wrote that credit card piece?
0:06:47 What was the first time where,
0:06:48 ’cause I remember some news outlets
0:06:50 started to pick up something that you had written
0:06:53 or what was the first time you realized
0:06:54 this was gonna be like broadly applicable
0:06:56 to a lot of people?
0:06:59 – I think I knew that it was broadly applicable early on.
0:07:01 So I remember just having dinners
0:07:03 and people are like leaning in and asking questions.
0:07:04 I was like, oh, this is the thing.
0:07:06 And I encourage everyone listening.
0:07:08 What I do isn’t your thing,
0:07:08 but whatever that thing,
0:07:10 when you’re having dinner with friends
0:07:12 and they all lean in and they ask you questions,
0:07:13 think about that thing more.
0:07:16 ‘Cause for me, I probably now, like you said,
0:07:18 oh, it makes total sense.
0:07:20 It took me like 20 years to figure it out.
0:07:23 And all my friends knew it, but I never asked them.
0:07:25 So everybody listening, ask your friends,
0:07:27 what’s that thing that I’m known for?
0:07:29 Maybe there’s a business you could start there.
0:07:30 – That’s your superpower basically.
0:07:32 It’s like when people lean in,
0:07:34 you’re like, okay, I’m good at this one thing.
0:07:35 Maybe I should expand that.
0:07:39 – Yes, and so for me, I remember writing a blog post.
0:07:42 I actually looked, I’ve started a blog three or four times
0:07:44 and I wrote a post on credit card points
0:07:47 and it just wasn’t the medium.
0:07:50 So I knew it was a thing that I liked to talk about,
0:07:51 but I had never found the medium
0:07:54 until I’d been on a bunch of podcasts
0:07:56 and I was like, oh, I like this medium.
0:07:59 Let’s try it from the other side and it worked.
0:08:01 But before I thought I tried posting tweets
0:08:05 about life optimization, credit card points and miles,
0:08:06 personal finance, I tried writing a blog post.
0:08:08 It just never clicked.
0:08:10 So even though I thought I knew the thing,
0:08:12 I didn’t know how to kind of turn it into
0:08:14 what I guess now is like a career.
0:08:16 – Yeah, it’s your full-time gig now.
0:08:17 – It’s my full-time gig.
0:08:20 It’s my wife joined full-time and we’re doing it together.
0:08:22 And it’s like our family business kind of.
0:08:23 – That’s amazing.
0:08:27 The one time I will say the first big aha moment for me
0:08:30 that you helped me out with was when I was going
0:08:32 to Tokyo with my wife.
0:08:36 And I remember I did a home renovation and NSF
0:08:37 and I had a bunch of points.
0:08:39 Just like, you know, as you do with credit cards
0:08:40 and buying stuff and just sitting there.
0:08:43 And everybody at this point in your career,
0:08:45 I mean, this was years ago, but at this point,
0:08:47 people knew you as like, oh, I’ve got points.
0:08:48 What do I do with them?
0:08:52 How can I help traverse all of the like multi-point jumps
0:08:53 that you can do to get like the best,
0:08:56 like upgraded, you know, business class, first class,
0:08:57 things like that.
0:09:01 You put me on a Singapore Airlines flight,
0:09:03 which was, is that first class?
0:09:04 – That was first class.
0:09:05 – First class.
0:09:09 And it was crazy because you paid for it all in points.
0:09:10 I think I may be paid like a, well, taxes.
0:09:13 – Yeah, usually maybe 100, 200 bucks a person in taxes,
0:09:14 but not a lot.
0:09:16 – Right, so it was a couple hundred bucks in taxes.
0:09:19 This flight, just so you, and we’ll show a picture
0:09:22 of this in the video, this flight comes with,
0:09:24 if you get two seats next to each other,
0:09:26 you can fold down the center column,
0:09:29 you can join the beds together,
0:09:32 and then they have closing doors.
0:09:35 So you essentially have your own, like, was it like,
0:09:37 I would say it’s like a queen bed?
0:09:40 – Yeah, maybe it’s a full double, I don’t know.
0:09:41 – But it’s a decent size bed.
0:09:45 They put like rose petals on the bed,
0:09:48 and like, it’s as close as you’re gonna get
0:09:52 to like free range, like mile high club,
0:09:56 like go for it kind of like situation in the air.
0:09:58 – Yeah, I think the downside is,
0:09:59 for everyone’s imagining this right now,
0:10:01 if you’re listening on audio, you’re like, wow, of course.
0:10:03 The only downside is, I think it’s like six or seven feet
0:10:05 tall, or maybe like six feet tall.
0:10:06 – I think it’s like six feet, right.
0:10:09 So if someone really wanted to peek over, they could.
0:10:11 – Yeah, so it’s not fully enclosed.
0:10:14 If you were to fly on the Etihad residences,
0:10:17 though Etihad has the apartments and then the residences,
0:10:19 you have a fully enclosed room with a bed.
0:10:23 – So I had never heard of Etihad before, what is Etihad?
0:10:25 – So Etihad’s an airline based in Abu Dhabi.
0:10:28 There’s kind of three or four big airlines that all compete,
0:10:32 Emirates, Etihad, Qatar based in Qatar.
0:10:34 And like those airlines are all competing
0:10:36 for the best cabins.
0:10:37 Qatar has Q Suites.
0:10:40 I don’t think Emirates has anything,
0:10:42 just call it first class, but it’s very nice.
0:10:43 We’ve flown it together.
0:10:45 – Yeah, we went and we talked to the conference together
0:10:47 and you got us upgraded free first class
0:10:49 from the conference providers in Emirates,
0:10:52 which was nuts because they had a shower on the plane.
0:10:56 Like you could literally go and shower on the plane.
0:10:57 By the way.
0:10:58 But this is a shared shower.
0:11:01 In the Etihad residences, you have your own shower.
0:11:03 – Wait, so you mean, wait,
0:11:04 how many showers are there on their plane?
0:11:07 – I think on Emirates, there’s one or two
0:11:08 for all the first class people.
0:11:11 You go in, you have like 10 or 20 minutes and all that.
0:11:14 In the residences, you walk in and you’ve got a bench
0:11:15 and it’s your chair.
0:11:17 You’ve got a TV, you’ve got a private bathroom
0:11:18 and then you have a bedroom.
0:11:20 This is all yours.
0:11:23 – What does it cost to fly something like that?
0:11:26 – So if you were to say, I want to fly this
0:11:28 for the sole purpose of flying it and you’re like,
0:11:32 I’m just going to fly from Abu Dhabi to Mumbai.
0:11:35 – Do they have any stateside travel or is it just?
0:11:37 – So there was a window of time where they took it off
0:11:38 and then they put it back on.
0:11:40 So I can’t say exactly what’s running.
0:11:42 For a while it was JFK to Abu Dhabi.
0:11:43 – Okay.
0:11:45 – The cheapest way to fly it would be
0:11:46 to fly these short routes.
0:11:48 So if you just want to tick the box,
0:11:51 you could fly a few hours from Abu Dhabi to Bombay
0:11:54 or Colombo and Sri Lanka or something like that.
0:11:57 But if you want to fly from JFK,
0:12:00 we’re talking $20,000, $30,000 each way.
0:12:01 – Per seat.
0:12:02 – Per seat.
0:12:03 That’s insane.
0:12:04 – It’s insane.
0:12:08 And it’s one of the kind of elusive white whales
0:12:10 of these things because you can book it with points.
0:12:12 And I just looked at it before this,
0:12:15 but it’s going to take you like 3 million points,
0:12:19 which not to say 3 million points is the worst deal
0:12:21 for something that might cost 30 or $40,000,
0:12:22 but there’s a lot better way to redeem your points.
0:12:24 – So as much as I would say,
0:12:25 if someone listening is like,
0:12:27 I want the absolute best way
0:12:29 to join the Mile High Club in privacy.
0:12:30 – Right.
0:12:31 – I mean, you might as well fly private also.
0:12:32 – Yeah.
0:12:34 – Anti-odd residences would be it.
0:12:37 However, if you want to make your points go really far,
0:12:38 something like what you did in Singapore Suite,
0:12:40 I think it was like 120,000 points.
0:12:43 So you could do that 30 times.
0:12:43 – Right.
0:12:44 – So.
0:12:45 – Yeah, the Singapore area was great.
0:12:47 And they had fantastic food and all of that.
0:12:48 And it was just like,
0:12:51 I never knew you could have your own little private dwelling
0:12:53 where they closed the doors and everything,
0:12:55 which was awesome.
0:12:57 And just to get that purely on points
0:13:00 and spend a couple hundred dollars, it’s fantastic.
0:13:00 – Yes.
0:13:02 – So just out of curiosity,
0:13:05 like can you get kicked off an airline?
0:13:07 Or like, because they’re kind of,
0:13:10 when they put rose petals on the bed,
0:13:12 they’re kind of saying like it’s a, you know,
0:13:15 not to like have a romantic time, blah, blah.
0:13:17 So can you get kicked off an airline for that?
0:13:20 – I mean, people can get kicked off airlines.
0:13:21 They’re not gonna, you know,
0:13:23 Alaska style just opened the door and let you go.
0:13:24 – Right.
0:13:27 – But, I mean, I imagine they would ask you to stop
0:13:31 before they, you know, aborted the flight and landed.
0:13:34 So I’d say, if you want to experiment and they get upset,
0:13:36 I wouldn’t keep going.
0:13:37 But I don’t know.
0:13:40 I mean, I’ve heard definitely people who are, you know,
0:13:42 try to sneak two people in the bathroom and get in trouble,
0:13:43 but they’re not going to land the plane over it.
0:13:46 They’re just going to be like, stop.
0:13:48 Fun hack, all of the bathrooms on airplanes
0:13:50 can be opened from the outside.
0:13:52 So there’s this little metal thing that says laboratory.
0:13:54 If you flip it up, you can see the latch.
0:13:56 So it’s not as much privacy as you want.
0:13:58 – Yeah, it’s funny because if I saw somebody actually do
0:14:00 that word that we’re knocking on the door,
0:14:01 the person wouldn’t answer.
0:14:03 And I was like, oh, how’s this flight attendant
0:14:05 gonna get in?
0:14:08 And that little sign, it looks like a little placard.
0:14:10 You just take your fingernail underneath it and pull it up.
0:14:14 And there’s a slider right there to unlock any lavatory,
0:14:16 like restroom, like instantly.
0:14:18 – Yeah. And I think it’s actually a good tip for parents
0:14:20 because I imagine there’s an age where your kid’s like,
0:14:21 well, I want you to walk me to the bathroom,
0:14:23 but I don’t want you to come in with me.
0:14:25 And if they lock themselves in there, you’re safe.
0:14:29 – Yeah. So you used to be a big kind of points person
0:14:32 in terms of like that was, you wrote about it.
0:14:34 People are probably wondering, you know,
0:14:36 when you think about, gosh, 100,000 points
0:14:39 is still spending $100,000 to get those points, right?
0:14:42 Like, well, I guess you can get three for one or four for one.
0:14:44 Like, do you still play that game anymore?
0:14:46 Or like, if you get the ultimate credit card,
0:14:49 you get more points and they can transfer them to travel?
0:14:50 Or is that, are you kind of done with that?
0:14:51 – I’m still playing the game.
0:14:53 I just did an episode a couple of weeks ago,
0:14:55 what’s in my wallet for 2024, where I’m like,
0:14:58 here’s all the categories, here’s the cards I’m using.
0:14:59 Here’s where I’m personally focused.
0:15:02 I’ve got probably 15 million points right now.
0:15:04 So I probably need to work more on the spending
0:15:05 than the earning.
0:15:08 – But you didn’t, you didn’t like spend $15 million
0:15:09 to get 15 million points.
0:15:10 – I have 15 million points.
0:15:11 – Right.
0:15:11 – That would be a very big problem.
0:15:13 – So how did you get 15 million points?
0:15:16 – So I think something interesting,
0:15:18 and I want people to not get too caught up in,
0:15:20 you know, seeing the forest for the trees.
0:15:22 So you could get the perfect credit card
0:15:24 that gives you the most points on gas.
0:15:26 There’s when the Wyndham business earner card
0:15:28 is like eight X points on gas.
0:15:31 However, like, if you don’t spend a lot on gas,
0:15:34 are you really over-optimizing for the wrong thing?
0:15:36 Right now, there’s,
0:15:39 I think Amex Platinum has a referral offer right now
0:15:41 that’s 150,000 points.
0:15:43 If you spend, I’m gonna probably miss it.
0:15:45 There’s like $8,000 over six months,
0:15:47 which I think the average person is probably able
0:15:49 to spend $8,000 over credit cards this month.
0:15:50 – Right, well, that’s gonna get you
0:15:52 that Singapore Air private room right there.
0:15:53 – Right there.
0:15:53 – That’s amazing.
0:15:55 – And so when I think about points,
0:15:57 and I think about people getting into the game,
0:15:59 I think there’s, look, if you spend a lot of money
0:16:01 on certain categories,
0:16:04 why not make sure you have the right card to earn the most?
0:16:07 But I built this big tool.
0:16:09 I called it like my card optimization tool,
0:16:10 and you could download it for $1
0:16:13 at allthehacks.com/cardtool, I think.
0:16:15 And I put all these cards in,
0:16:17 and then I went to the go get,
0:16:19 there’s Bureau of Labor Statistics data, I think,
0:16:21 on how the average American household
0:16:25 that earns over $100,000 spends their money.
0:16:27 And I went down the list of how everyone spends their money.
0:16:28 I calculated the cards,
0:16:31 and I was like, what is the perfect combination of cards,
0:16:33 and where do you start to see real diminishing returns?
0:16:37 And like really optimal two cards,
0:16:39 every third, fourth, fifth card you add
0:16:41 really starts to diminish the return.
0:16:43 – Is that because you’re paying a annual fee
0:16:45 for some of these cards, or like what’s the–
0:16:46 – It’s a little bit the annual fee,
0:16:49 and it’s a little bit like, okay,
0:16:51 if I’m gonna earn two X on everything,
0:16:53 and there’s a card that’s gonna give me three X
0:16:55 when I rent cars,
0:16:56 like you’re not really spending enough
0:16:59 on the rental cars to make it worth it.
0:17:01 So the killer combo was the AmEx Gold,
0:17:04 which is four X on dining and groceries,
0:17:06 and the Capital One Venture or Venture X,
0:17:07 which is two X on everything.
0:17:10 And that earned on average for the American household,
0:17:12 I think around 2.65 points per dollar,
0:17:13 based on how you spend.
0:17:17 You could add AmEx Platinum earns five X on flights.
0:17:19 You spend 50 grand a year on business flights,
0:17:21 it’s worth it to get a card that’s gonna
0:17:24 take your flights from three X to five X,
0:17:26 but if you buy a couple flights a year,
0:17:28 it’s not really there.
0:17:30 However, let’s take this example,
0:17:33 let’s say you spend $10,000 a year on flights,
0:17:35 and the card you have today earns three X points,
0:17:37 and there is a card that earns five.
0:17:40 So you’re gonna get extra two points on $10,000.
0:17:42 So you’re gonna get 20,000 extra points on flights.
0:17:45 If you just open the AmEx Platinum right now
0:17:47 with a referral link, you’re gonna get 150,000 points.
0:17:50 – Right, which is years worth of extra, yeah.
0:17:52 – You take you seven years of all those spending on flights
0:17:54 to earn that same number of points.
0:17:59 So the most accelerated way to open an account
0:18:00 and amass a lot of points,
0:18:03 is to focus on really high signup bonuses.
0:18:08 And I would say in general, 75 to 100,000 point plus bonuses.
0:18:12 And I’ve done one for 250,000, which is probably the highest,
0:18:16 then one for 190,000, and I’ve done lots for 100,000 plus.
0:18:20 And so that’s the easiest way to start racking up points.
0:18:22 I won’t go as far down the rabbit hole as we could
0:18:24 on the impact on your credit score and all that,
0:18:26 but it’s surprisingly not that bad.
0:18:28 There are people who’ve opened up between them
0:18:32 and their partner, like 25 cards in the course of 18 months,
0:18:34 and their credit scores went up over time.
0:18:36 I’ll send you a link to this graphic, it’s crazy.
0:18:37 Like they opened up all these cards
0:18:38 and their credit score went up.
0:18:39 – Yeah, are they closing them though, afterwards?
0:18:40 Like are you redeeming it?
0:18:44 Say there’s a signing bonus of 100,000 points, you do it.
0:18:46 They say you have to stay with them what, six months a year?
0:18:48 – So here’s my rule of thumb.
0:18:50 Never close a card in the first year.
0:18:52 Because they have these rules that, you know,
0:18:53 they’re basically like, if we catch you closing them
0:18:57 in a year, we’re gonna maybe put a red mark on your name.
0:18:57 So always close it.
0:19:00 If you don’t want it, close it in the 13th month.
0:19:02 Annual fee posts the second year.
0:19:03 If you cancel it within 30 days,
0:19:05 you can usually get it back, almost always.
0:19:07 So close it in the 13 month if you don’t need it.
0:19:09 But there’s a lot of cards out there,
0:19:11 like Chase Sapphire Preferred and Reserve.
0:19:13 You can downgrade to the Chase Freedom Unlimited
0:19:14 or the Chase Freedom Flex,
0:19:16 and those cards have no annual fee.
0:19:17 So there are a lot of cards
0:19:19 where you get a really expensive United card
0:19:20 that gives you a lot of access.
0:19:21 – And then you just downgrade.
0:19:21 – Downgrade it to the free United card.
0:19:23 – So you call in and you’re like,
0:19:24 rather than canceling, getting a ding,
0:19:25 something like that, you call in like,
0:19:26 ah, this card’s not for me anymore.
0:19:27 – Can you just mention to the seller?
0:19:28 – Gotcha.
0:19:30 – Or you say, this happened to me
0:19:31 with the Mx Platinum one year.
0:19:32 I called in and I was like,
0:19:33 I’m just not getting the value.
0:19:34 And they’re like, well,
0:19:35 we’ve been a customer for so many years.
0:19:36 We really want to keep you.
0:19:38 What if we just waived the annual fee this year?
0:19:41 I’m like, okay, like we’ll punt this decision here.
0:19:42 So you can call and say,
0:19:43 I’m thinking of canceling this card.
0:19:44 Is there anything you could do for me?
0:19:45 And you can live chat that
0:19:47 if you don’t want to get on the phone.
0:19:48 And a lot of times they’ll be like,
0:19:49 well, if you can spend two grand,
0:19:50 we’ll give you 20,000 points or something.
0:19:51 And maybe it makes it worth it.
0:19:54 So cancel the card is like the last resort.
0:19:57 Because if you can get a free card,
0:20:00 or if you can end up getting the annual fee comped, great.
0:20:04 But in general, I’m opening cards to get points.
0:20:06 I’m opening cards because they have perks.
0:20:07 I might not never spend on them,
0:20:08 but it might be worth it for the perks.
0:20:09 Or I’m opening cards
0:20:12 ’cause it really impacts my spending bonuses.
0:20:14 Not if it just kind of is my spending bonus.
0:20:17 – The one thing I had said to you before is like,
0:20:20 I’m not thinking in every situation,
0:20:21 like I’m at dinner,
0:20:23 I’m like, okay, I probably should.
0:20:26 But I’m not like, okay, Mx Platinum, 4x Dinner.
0:20:30 It does take a little bit of a mental load to remember,
0:20:32 oh, I’m in this situation.
0:20:34 I should pull out this card, right?
0:20:34 It’s not worth it.
0:20:36 – That’s why I like the two card solution.
0:20:37 It’s like, you have two cards,
0:20:39 dining, groceries, and everything else.
0:20:40 – Yeah, but what about somebody
0:20:43 that just wants like the ultimate cash back?
0:20:45 They’re like, I don’t wanna worry about anything.
0:20:47 I just want like the highest percent
0:20:49 of just straight cash back.
0:20:50 – So I don’t know when this will come out.
0:20:53 I’m gonna try to make the case for cash back.
0:20:54 Because one of the things that’s interesting,
0:20:56 you bring up, we brought up Singapore.
0:20:57 What a great deal.
0:20:59 Because that flight probably would have been $20,000.
0:21:02 And you ended up getting it for like 120,000 points.
0:21:06 So you’re getting almost 20 cents a point as unreal.
0:21:08 Maybe it was $10,000, maybe it’s 10 cents a point.
0:21:10 But that’s a lot of cents per point, right?
0:21:12 If you have a card that’s getting you two points
0:21:13 and you’re getting 10 cents,
0:21:15 that’s like 20% cash back on everything.
0:21:18 Now, if you wouldn’t otherwise pay for first class,
0:21:20 then you’re not really getting that value, right?
0:21:21 It’s not saving.
0:21:23 If I would spend a thousand on economy,
0:21:25 now I can get a free first class upgrade.
0:21:27 But you didn’t really save 20 grand.
0:21:31 But a lot of airlines sell their miles and points
0:21:33 and they go on sale all the time.
0:21:37 So you have access to buy 100,000 points on some airlines
0:21:38 for $1,000.
0:21:40 So I’m starting to think,
0:21:42 what if you just maxed your cash back
0:21:44 and then you could buy tickets with cash
0:21:47 or you could buy tickets by buying the points
0:21:50 on the airline and booking the flights.
0:21:51 Haven’t recorded this episode.
0:21:53 So I’m not ready to definitively say
0:21:55 how the steelman argument comes out.
0:21:58 But I will say there are a couple cards
0:22:00 that I’m really intrigued by this year.
0:22:04 So the US Bank Altitude Reserve card
0:22:06 because you can get three X,
0:22:07 they call them points, but it’s just cash back.
0:22:11 You get three X points on mobile wallet payments.
0:22:13 So anytime you can use Apple Pay,
0:22:15 which if you’re using Safari on a Mac,
0:22:16 there are a lot of websites
0:22:19 where you can use Apple Pay online.
0:22:20 And the way they allow,
0:22:22 there’s a way that they let you redeem those points
0:22:24 for one and a half cents each,
0:22:26 which means four and a half percent cash back
0:22:27 anytime you use Apple Pay.
0:22:29 – Wait, how do you get to four and a half percent?
0:22:30 ‘Cause you have three percent.
0:22:31 – So you get three X points
0:22:33 and they let you redeem them for one and a half cents.
0:22:34 – Okay, gotcha.
0:22:36 – And it’s this weird thing called real-time rewards
0:22:39 where it’s like anytime you purchase something in travel,
0:22:40 there’s a way to get kicking back.
0:22:41 So I don’t wanna go–
0:22:42 – So four and a half percent?
0:22:43 – On everything.
0:22:44 – That’s better than so when you–
0:22:45 – On Apple Pay.
0:22:46 – On Apple Pay.
0:22:48 But still, you use Apple Pay for most things.
0:22:49 – Yeah, Costco.
0:22:53 – Yeah, Amazon Prime, that card gives you 5%
0:22:54 with a prime membership.
0:22:57 So that’s like the best online that I know of.
0:23:02 – There’s no way I know of to get more than 5% cash back
0:23:04 except for in a few very edge case scenarios.
0:23:10 But the tried and true cash back card for a lot of people
0:23:14 is in the Bank of America Premium Rewards card.
0:23:16 And so they have this whole status thing
0:23:19 where if you have over $100,000
0:23:22 parked in Bank of America or Merrill Lynch.
0:23:23 – Can that be equities?
0:23:24 – To give you equity, you can buy stocks
0:23:26 in a Merrill brokerage.
0:23:29 It doesn’t have to be anything that you’re losing money on
0:23:30 by keeping it there.
0:23:31 – So you can transfer some of your Nvidia stock
0:23:32 or whatever and then you just hold it there.
0:23:35 – Yeah, you got an old Roth IRA, put it there.
0:23:40 And so they have this card earns one and a half points
0:23:43 on everything or cash back, but one and a half.
0:23:46 And then I think it earns two on travel and dining.
0:23:51 But you boost that by 75% if you have 100 grand
0:23:54 in these accounts, which makes it effectively,
0:23:58 you’re getting 3.5% cash back on travel and dining
0:24:02 and 2.625% cash back on everything else.
0:24:06 That is like the one card solution, everything,
0:24:07 it’s pretty good.
0:24:08 Now, if you’re using a lot of Apple Pay,
0:24:09 maybe the altitude reserves better,
0:24:14 but those two cards have me thinking,
0:24:16 if I can make the cash back worth more than the points,
0:24:19 which I’ll provide the argument against,
0:24:22 then there are cards that can basically make sure
0:24:25 you’re probably averaging around 3% cash back
0:24:27 on everything, throw in the Amazon card,
0:24:31 you’re getting five there, you get the Target debit card,
0:24:32 which you don’t even have to impact your credit score,
0:24:34 you get 5% off at Target.
0:24:37 You could probably get an average a little above 3%,
0:24:40 but I took this example that I wrote down
0:24:41 ’cause I wanted to get it right,
0:24:42 of booking a flight to Bora Bora,
0:24:45 which I’ve done twice on points.
0:24:47 The flight’s almost always in business class
0:24:50 at around $5, $5,500, $6,000.
0:24:52 And so if you wanna just book it,
0:24:55 any of these airlines lets you use your points
0:24:57 to book in their travel portal for one cent a point.
0:24:59 So the general rule of thumb is,
0:25:01 one cent a point is the floor.
0:25:02 There are some ways that you could use gift cards,
0:25:03 and it’s like even less,
0:25:06 but one cent per point is the floor.
0:25:07 So it’s gonna be half a million points.
0:25:10 So then Chase, if you have the Chase reserve card,
0:25:11 they’ll give you one and a half cents,
0:25:14 so you can get it down to 365,000 points.
0:25:17 But if you transfer that point to United
0:25:20 and book on United’s website for a United flight,
0:25:23 I’ve booked it for about 140,000 points,
0:25:25 which means 3.8 cents per point.
0:25:27 But if you transfer it to Air Canada,
0:25:28 and you book it for 110,000,
0:25:31 you get about five cents per point.
0:25:33 So I’ve pretty consistently been able to get
0:25:36 more than two cents per point.
0:25:37 So from my perspective,
0:25:40 if I’m using a card like the MX Gold,
0:25:42 4X on dining, 4X on groceries,
0:25:44 and I’m getting two cents per point or more,
0:25:46 and in this example, I got five,
0:25:50 then I’m getting eight plus percent cash back.
0:25:51 – That’s insane. – So that’s why
0:25:52 I love points, right?
0:25:55 There’s an extreme example of booking the perfect flight
0:25:57 for 10 or 15 or 20 cents per point,
0:25:59 where, I mean, this sounds so crazy,
0:26:03 but Amix Platinum, 5X points, 10 cents per point,
0:26:05 50% cash back.
0:26:06 That’s nuts.
0:26:08 So I still love playing the points game,
0:26:12 but, and I just get to do things I wouldn’t do.
0:26:12 – So if I had cash back,
0:26:15 would I really spend it to fly in first class in Japan?
0:26:18 Could I pull the trigger on a $6,000 flight?
0:26:19 No, I mean, you know me.
0:26:21 There’s no way I could pull the trigger on that.
0:26:24 – Yeah, so, but when they’re just sitting there as points,
0:26:26 and it makes it seem like it’s funny money,
0:26:28 you just, you’re willing to spend it.
0:26:30 Let’s talk about some of the other hacks
0:26:32 that you’ve been up to.
0:26:35 The Biohacks, this is kind of new for you.
0:26:37 I don’t know that you’ve been a massive Biohacker
0:26:39 in the past.
0:26:43 – No, because I think there’s two really compelling reasons
0:26:44 to go down this path.
0:26:46 One is to be healthy, that’s fine.
0:26:47 And then you have kids and you’re like,
0:26:49 now I just wanna live longer to see my kid.
0:26:53 I don’t wanna, you know, see myself fall apart
0:26:54 and my body fall apart.
0:26:56 And so having kids really jumpstarted this like,
0:26:58 I need to be healthy.
0:27:00 I wanna be able to, you know,
0:27:02 we had kids in our mid 30s, late 30s even.
0:27:05 So like, I wanna be able to, you know, run with them.
0:27:07 And, you know, we all probably see people
0:27:10 and whether they’re our parents or our parents’ generation,
0:27:12 some of them are like running around the track,
0:27:14 playing tennis, and some of them are very sedentary.
0:27:15 – Right, totally.
0:27:16 – I wanna be that former group.
0:27:19 And so that’s pushed me to say, what do I need to do?
0:27:20 What do I need to dial in?
0:27:23 What kind of exercise do I need to do?
0:27:27 And it’s taken me on a path that previously,
0:27:29 it’s not like Biohacking’s new, you know,
0:27:30 but I was like, eh, who cares?
0:27:31 Now I have a purpose.
0:27:35 – So if you know me, I’m always trying out
0:27:36 the latest and greatest stuff,
0:27:39 always bouncing around, trying out different apps.
0:27:44 But I will say there is one app in particular
0:27:46 that I absolutely love and just keeps getting better
0:27:48 and better with time.
0:27:51 And I’m proud to say that they’re a sponsor of the show
0:27:52 and that is Notion.
0:27:54 I use Notion as my life dashboard.
0:27:56 It tracks all my angel investments.
0:28:00 It has travel documents for my family, vaccination records.
0:28:03 We use it for vacation planning,
0:28:06 storing family recipes, pretty much everything.
0:28:08 I even have a separate workspace
0:28:10 for my entire podcast workflow.
0:28:13 So that’s like guest outreach and booking, editing notes.
0:28:15 It’s all in there.
0:28:17 It’s really my Swiss Army knife tool
0:28:19 for all important data.
0:28:23 Notion combines your notes, your documents and projects
0:28:25 into one space that’s simple.
0:28:28 And for me, this is key that’s just beautifully designed.
0:28:30 It’s really clean and the mobile app’s awesome too.
0:28:33 It’s nice that it’s just all in one tool.
0:28:37 And of course, we know it is the season of AI
0:28:39 and AI is built right inside of Notion.
0:28:42 So you don’t have to bounce out to another tool
0:28:43 and then come back to Notion.
0:28:45 It’s built into it.
0:28:49 And I personally believe that having an AI-powered tool
0:28:51 to summarize and leverage all of your data
0:28:52 is definitely the future.
0:28:55 And Notion is right at the forefront of that.
0:29:00 So try Notion for free when you go to Notion.com/KevinRose.
0:29:01 That’s all lowercase letters.
0:29:06 Notion.com/KevinRose to try the powerful, easy-to-use
0:29:07 Notion AI today.
0:29:09 And when you use our link, now I know
0:29:10 you could just go to Notion.com.
0:29:13 But if you go to Notion.com/KevinRose,
0:29:14 you’re actually supporting the show.
0:29:16 I’d really appreciate it.
0:29:19 Notion.com/KevinRose.
0:29:21 So you’ve probably heard me mention on the podcast in the past
0:29:22 or other podcasts.
0:29:25 There are two activities that I love.
0:29:27 One is rucking, which is where you are hiking
0:29:29 with a weighted backpack.
0:29:31 Peter and Tia got me into that one.
0:29:33 And then also the sauna.
0:29:34 The sauna is huge.
0:29:38 I did it at 175 degrees Fahrenheit, 20 to 25 minutes.
0:29:41 And there’s great data around reduction in dementia,
0:29:45 cardiovascular improvements, lower all-cause mortality.
0:29:46 It’s just awesome.
0:29:47 Tons of benefits.
0:29:49 And I do this six times a week.
0:29:52 So I mentioned these because they both really
0:29:54 make you sweat, like a ton.
0:29:56 And after that, you definitely need
0:29:58 to replenish your electrolytes.
0:30:01 Sadly, a lot of the electrolyte powders out there
0:30:02 are packed with sugar.
0:30:03 And that’s just a no-go for me.
0:30:05 It goes straight to the gut.
0:30:07 I don’t like to spike my glucose.
0:30:10 And for that reason, I use a product called Element.
0:30:12 There’s no sugar.
0:30:14 And it has the science-backed ratio
0:30:18 of 1,000 milligrams of sodium, 200 milligrams of potassium,
0:30:21 and 60 milligrams of magnesium.
0:30:23 This is a super clean product.
0:30:25 No coloring, no artificial ingredients, no gluten,
0:30:29 no fillers, no sugar, just absolutely no BS.
0:30:31 Element is used by everyone from podcast hosts
0:30:35 to NBA, NFL, and NHL players, Olympic athletes,
0:30:38 even everyday moms and dads, and exercise enthusiasts
0:30:40 like myself.
0:30:44 And right now, Element is offering a free sample pack
0:30:44 with any purchase.
0:30:47 So that gives you eight single-serving packets
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0:30:53 Now, this is a great way to try out all eight flavors
0:30:55 so you know which one you love, or you
0:30:57 get to share your Element with a friend.
0:30:59 And lastly– and this is the best part–
0:31:00 it’s totally risk-free.
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0:31:21 And huge thanks to Element for sponsoring today’s show.
0:31:24 Yeah, so you and I both did the same thing,
0:31:25 which we should talk about.
0:31:26 Yep.
0:31:28 It’s a little embarrassing.
0:31:31 It’s not necessarily the thing you want to admit to everyone.
0:31:36 But I’ll tell you what happens on my side.
0:31:39 So about– let’s call it 2 and 1/2 years ago,
0:31:41 maybe three years ago–
0:31:44 my kind of longevity doctor, Peter Atia,
0:31:48 was investigating these new class of drugs,
0:31:53 these GLP-1 inhibitors that essentially are glucose-controlled
0:31:55 drugs, but they also– one of the big side effects
0:31:58 is that people are losing a lot of weight on them.
0:32:02 So Ozympic probably being the biggest one in the category.
0:32:07 He– for me at that time–
0:32:08 so my issues has never been–
0:32:10 I haven’t been super obese.
0:32:14 But as you know, visceral fat is a bad type of fat.
0:32:19 And I’ve always had– call it 10 pounds just to get rid of.
0:32:21 And my blood pressure, for me personally,
0:32:25 is severely impacted by plus or minus 10 to 15 pounds.
0:32:28 Like, it’s higher if I’m heavier, right?
0:32:33 And so I said, I’ll try it.
0:32:34 So a couple of years ago, I went on Ozympic
0:32:37 just to see what would happen for just a thing
0:32:39 I did for about a month.
0:32:41 I got super nauseous.
0:32:43 And you had bad reactions.
0:32:45 Yeah, I just got really nauseous.
0:32:49 And I did drop that 10 pounds, which is great.
0:32:50 But I didn’t really enjoy it.
0:32:52 I mean, it just didn’t sit right with me.
0:32:54 I just didn’t like the fact that there
0:32:56 was this nausea that came along with it.
0:32:58 And I was like, us grew it.
0:33:01 And then later, Atea’s team had done the research and said,
0:33:04 hey, we’re also noticing via DEXA scans, which
0:33:06 are these low radiation scans that you can get done
0:33:08 on your entire body, which shows bone density.
0:33:10 It shows visceral fat, which is muscle mass.
0:33:15 It’s an insanely accurate body scan that you can get done.
0:33:16 He was showing muscle loss.
0:33:18 And I think the majority of that–
0:33:20 I’d have to talk to Atea about it.
0:33:22 But the majority of that is, you’re literally not
0:33:23 eating any protein.
0:33:25 Like, you’re kind of not hungry at all.
0:33:26 Right, you’re not eating anything.
0:33:28 So it’s not really surprising that you would
0:33:30 lose some muscle mass as well.
0:33:34 But muscle mass, if you’ve read Atea’s latest book, Outlive,
0:33:38 it is very important to maintain over your lifespan.
0:33:41 Like, it’s a very important piece of longevity.
0:33:45 So there has been new drugs that have come out since.
0:33:48 One of them is called Manjaro.
0:33:52 And Manjaro is a slightly more elegant drug.
0:33:54 It works a little bit better.
0:33:57 It’s still a GLP1 inhibitor, but it’s also a dual GIP inhibitor.
0:34:00 And by the way, to anyone listening, we’re not doctors.
0:34:01 We’re not giving medical advice.
0:34:03 No, none of this is medical advice.
0:34:07 But we’ll just tell you our kind of path through this.
0:34:12 So November of last year, I was in the same predicament,
0:34:15 where I was like, OK, I’m probably 15 pounds overweight.
0:34:18 I broke 200 for the first time, which I was not proud of.
0:34:19 This is my exact scenario.
0:34:22 If I break a 200, it’s like, there’s something for me.
0:34:23 We got to make a change.
0:34:24 Yeah, exactly.
0:34:25 So I’m normally at like 185.
0:34:27 And so I broke 200.
0:34:28 And I’m like, OK, this sucks.
0:34:30 And of course, my blood pressure was high.
0:34:34 I have a small brain aneurysm that they keep an eye on.
0:34:37 And the thing that causes a brain aneurysm to grow.
0:34:39 And while you hear they’re so dangerous is what they grow.
0:34:40 They burst.
0:34:42 And if they burst, you have a 50% chance of survival.
0:34:43 And it’s not good.
0:34:46 So you got to keep your blood pressure tight, tight, tight.
0:34:50 So anyway, I talked to Nadia about my primary care physician.
0:34:54 I was like, hey, like, can you hook me up a little bit?
0:34:59 Like I just need a little juice just to get me on the right path.
0:34:59 Right?
0:35:02 Like if I can get like a little few shots on the side and drop
0:35:04 a tenor, then I’m like, good to go into the new year.
0:35:05 Right?
0:35:08 And so he’s like, OK, I got you.
0:35:12 So I went in and since then, it’s been approved for weight loss.
0:35:15 It’s now coming out under a new brand name as well.
0:35:16 But you know, with the sole purpose
0:35:21 to get my blood pressure down and, you know, I got it off label.
0:35:24 So obviously it was not off label, but I’m off prescription.
0:35:26 So obviously it was not paid for.
0:35:30 I used a coupon that I found online so you can get for 500 bucks a month.
0:35:33 And it’s expensive, but I did it.
0:35:36 And of course, you know, I lost that like, you know, call it 10, 12 pounds.
0:35:40 And then followed up with cardio, protein, all the bright things.
0:35:42 And then now, you know, working back into getting into good shape again.
0:35:44 So that was great.
0:35:47 I talked to you and you were like,
0:35:51 oh, dude, I got this crazy hack like this is some crazy shit.
0:35:53 Oh, tell me what you did.
0:35:56 Yeah. So a similar experience, except instead of having a doctor
0:36:00 that I could talk to about it, there’s probably 20 startups now
0:36:01 that you go online, you fill out a profile.
0:36:04 And if you meet a certain number of requirements,
0:36:07 they will cook you up with a doctor that helps prescribe things for weight loss.
0:36:11 So like Teladoc Teladoc, but they’re specifically designed.
0:36:15 I won’t say, I mean, they are buying a Zempik and Manjaro keywords on Google.
0:36:18 They’re not out there saying like, click this button and we’re going to prescribe
0:36:21 this drug, because what they’re going to do is click this button, talk to a doctor
0:36:23 and the doctor is going to find the right solution for you.
0:36:27 Right solution is often GOP one inhibitors, but like it’s very clear
0:36:30 what keywords they’re buying on Google in their advertising.
0:36:34 So I went to one and I was like, hey, I’m in a similar box, cross 200.
0:36:37 One of this, I didn’t have the blood pressure.
0:36:38 I had the cholesterol.
0:36:43 And so it’s usually helpful to be like from a diagnosing these things.
0:36:46 It’s like they want like maybe one other thing to improve.
0:36:49 So whether it’s cholesterol or prediabetes or blood pressure.
0:36:53 And so prescribed Manjaro and there was a coupon.
0:36:55 What was the name of the site that you used?
0:36:56 I think I used one called Alfie.
0:36:59 OK, there’s there’s a lot of them now.
0:37:02 You know, I haven’t used them all so I can, you know, I had a fine experience.
0:37:06 But there was a coupon a year, maybe last year or sometime
0:37:08 where it would bring the cost down to almost nothing.
0:37:12 And but that coupon no longer works.
0:37:13 Now it brings it down to like five hundred dollars.
0:37:17 I haven’t tried this out since then, but went on for three months.
0:37:21 I had a very different experience to you, which was did you get nausea?
0:37:23 I didn’t get any nausea with majority at all.
0:37:30 None. Yeah. And I went from like 207 to like 175 or something.
0:37:32 That’s a lot of draw 90 days.
0:37:35 And I didn’t put a lot of thought into it.
0:37:37 I wasn’t doing all the like protein research.
0:37:38 So that was it.
0:37:43 And I but I ended up stopping it a little early and then I had in the fridge.
0:37:47 I still had like a month or a month or two months of supply left.
0:37:48 And I was like, well, I’m not going to use this now.
0:37:49 Like I hit this target.
0:37:53 One thing that’s really important to realize is because you’re consuming so few calories,
0:37:56 your metabolic rate goes down significantly.
0:37:59 So a lot of people get off these drugs and they gain the pounds right back
0:38:03 because if you’re used to consuming eight hundred calories a day for 90 days
0:38:05 and then you get off and you’re like, well, now I’m hungry
0:38:07 and you’re eating 2,000, you’re going to gain it right back.
0:38:08 Could you see abs at that point?
0:38:11 Were you like getting shredded? No, no, I was not shredded.
0:38:14 OK. And so I realized you weren’t working out
0:38:15 though either. No, I don’t know.
0:38:18 See, you just like basically just lost a bunch of muscle.
0:38:20 And you were just like flabby, like just like.
0:38:21 No, I mean, I wasn’t.
0:38:24 You were doughy, though. You weren’t like buff.
0:38:26 I know I wasn’t working out. Yeah.
0:38:29 And I probably went back up to 185 at the end and stayed there for a while.
0:38:31 OK. And I was like, that was great.
0:38:34 It like I wasn’t one that was consistently gaining weight.
0:38:36 So it was like, I just needed to do a little reset.
0:38:40 And then we had another kid and just the end of like all this stuff
0:38:42 started happening. I was like, it’s happening again.
0:38:44 And I wasn’t serious about exercise this year.
0:38:48 I have been like pretty diligent about stuff.
0:38:50 And then I was like, you know, at this time, I mean,
0:38:52 I want to get the last little use out of the stuff that’s in the fridge.
0:38:54 Let’s do another one.
0:38:56 But I want to go through the hassle of another prescription.
0:38:58 And I started looking online.
0:39:02 And the crazy thing is, Majaro, you can get it in 2.5 to 15 milligram dosages.
0:39:06 OK. So when you when you mention that, so what people should know is that
0:39:10 the way that you take Manjaro is that it is a subcutaneous shot.
0:39:12 It’s a single use pen.
0:39:15 And so it looks like, you know, I mean, it could be like whatever,
0:39:17 a bulb or pen or whatever you push down on it.
0:39:19 When you push down on the end of it,
0:39:22 it shoots a needle that is a super fine little tiny needle
0:39:24 about a quarter inch into your fat.
0:39:26 So you kind of pinch your fat, push it down.
0:39:28 You hold it there for what about five seconds.
0:39:30 Yeah, it pops back out, pops back out.
0:39:32 It’s done. You throw away the whole cartridge
0:39:34 and you’re done onto the next one.
0:39:35 And you do that once per week.
0:39:38 So that’s just a little primer of how it’s used.
0:39:39 And they make pens like that.
0:39:41 I think it might be a more you can ratchet the pen.
0:39:43 That’s right. You can adjust the dosage.
0:39:46 Yeah. What’s crazy about Manjaro is you can’t adjust the dosage, right?
0:39:49 But the cost for 15 milligrams is the same as the cost.
0:39:51 And maybe I’m off by a couple of dollars,
0:39:53 but like relatively the same as the cost for two and a half.
0:39:56 But they never want to start you with that crazy high.
0:39:59 They want to start you with two and a half and scale your way up, right?
0:40:01 And because I’d done this for 90 days,
0:40:03 they’d scaled me up to 10. OK.
0:40:06 And, you know, I don’t know if I need to be on 10.
0:40:08 I felt like I was fine at five. Yeah.
0:40:10 So when I was like, let’s go back, I was like, I have these pens at 10.
0:40:12 It seems like a total waste.
0:40:14 I don’t need 10, but usually one way to do this.
0:40:15 And I just search online.
0:40:18 And there are people that are showing you how simple it is
0:40:22 to basically take a little wrench, open the pen up
0:40:26 and put into, you know, what it was, sterile vials,
0:40:30 add bacteriostatic water to help with the longevity of the medicine
0:40:35 and to kind of increase the number of CCs of liquid or milliliters of liquid
0:40:40 and then use the same needle, but as a diabetes syringe kind of thing
0:40:42 to basically split doses.
0:40:45 So a lot of people out there who either by dosing up
0:40:48 or by just being honest with their doctor and saying,
0:40:50 this is a super expensive medicine, I would like to use it.
0:40:54 Can you help me get to a 50 milligram prescription and I’m going to dose it out?
0:40:58 There are other crazy people who are buying peptides from China
0:41:02 and like trying to batch themselves, Manjaro equivalent.
0:41:03 Yes, screw that. That seems crazy.
0:41:06 Well, even the it seems crazy to like.
0:41:10 So what you’re saying, essentially, is that like you can buy the 15 mil,
0:41:11 the actual, you know, pins.
0:41:14 Yeah. If you crack them open, you can extract two and a half.
0:41:17 And by crack open, just to be clear, you’re like, you’re taking.
0:41:18 There’s nothing breaking.
0:41:20 You’re not like pouring liquid out of a glass.
0:41:22 Yeah, you’re taking that same needle.
0:41:24 And the way the pen actually works, if you take it apart,
0:41:27 is there’s a plunger just like any normal syringe.
0:41:32 That pushes down and it pushes the liquid inside the medicine
0:41:36 out the tip of the syringe, but it pushes down so fast and it’s spring loaded.
0:41:37 It’s crazy when you take it apart.
0:41:42 If you release the spring, the little plunger will shoot 40 feet across the room.
0:41:45 Like it is a serious amount of force from that spring.
0:41:47 So when you take it apart, you remove the spring.
0:41:52 Why can’t you just put it right into an empty vial and shoot it all right.
0:41:53 So there are people that do that.
0:41:56 And if you go read all these red threads, people are doing that.
0:41:59 There are two reasons that you don’t want to do it is one.
0:42:02 These vials have a very small area to hit through.
0:42:06 So if you don’t line it up perfectly, right, you might damage the needle.
0:42:09 You might miss the top and lose the medicine.
0:42:11 And then two peptides are very sensitive.
0:42:14 So people are like, well, when I did that, it starts foaming a lot.
0:42:18 And it’s like the medicine was still worked, but like they’re very sensitive medication.
0:42:23 So I thought it would be safer to not shoot it in and have it have some
0:42:25 sort of reaction that creates foam.
0:42:26 I don’t like I’m not a doctor.
0:42:29 I don’t know what, but it seemed safer to do it a little slower.
0:42:35 And so we just I just split the tens and added 50 each pen is about 50 milliliters.
0:42:37 Or is that right 50 milliliters?
0:42:38 Yeah, I think so, or 50 ccs.
0:42:40 And so I had to take a pet.
0:42:41 Yeah, probably 50 ccs.
0:42:45 And then you take 50 ccs plus 50 ccs of water and then you’re doing the same.
0:42:49 Then you’re mixing it up and you’re just taking 50 out, which now has half the medication.
0:42:54 Gotcha. And so now you got to be, I mean, again, we said it before,
0:42:56 but this is you’re not saying to try this at home.
0:42:58 I’m this I’m not endorsing this.
0:43:01 Yeah, this is probably, you know, no one would probably recommend this.
0:43:05 No, not at all, because there is a world where you can contaminate this stuff.
0:43:09 Yeah. So I’m like, I have like my little table and I’m like wiping it down
0:43:10 with alcohol wipes while washing my hands.
0:43:12 I’m wiping down the top of the vial.
0:43:16 I’m wiping like I’m, you know, I’m taking a lot of precautions.
0:43:20 What made me comfortable with this was when my wife was going through IVF,
0:43:22 we had to do all the same stuff.
0:43:23 So we had a vial.
0:43:26 So if you had told me this pre IVF, I’d be like, this is insane.
0:43:30 Right. I’m drawing, you know, medicine out of a syringe and injecting my,
0:43:32 that seems crazy. Right.
0:43:35 But we went through this whole thing at UCSF when we were doing IVF and they’re
0:43:37 like, all right, here’s this medicine and I need you to take it out.
0:43:40 And I need you to put it in this other vial and mix it with this other thing
0:43:43 and mix it up so that the medicine and then take it out and then inject it.
0:43:46 And this was some of those were subcutaneous and some of them,
0:43:51 I think it was progesterone, was like a massive needle in the butt, like massive.
0:43:52 Intramuscular. Yeah.
0:43:56 And speaking of back to our old privacy on airplanes thing,
0:43:58 I remember you’re supposed to take it at the same time every day.
0:44:01 So we weren’t in the middle of trying to join the mile high club,
0:44:06 but I needed to stick a needle in my wife’s ass, like to inject his medicine.
0:44:08 And the time was in the middle of a flight to Tokyo.
0:44:10 And so we’re like, I remember we didn’t have sweets.
0:44:14 So I like made a tent out of a blanket and had like a little flashlight for my
0:44:17 phone because I was trying to give her the shot because like, you know,
0:44:19 in her seat or did you go to the bathroom in her seat?
0:44:22 Because the bathroom on a regular it’s too small, like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:44:24 So, uh, yeah.
0:44:26 So that made me comfortable with the process
0:44:29 because I was like, if doctors are going to approve this process,
0:44:32 which is almost identical in this other way, and we had success.
0:44:36 We now have two children, so it worked. Yeah, it made me comfortable with it.
0:44:38 I’m saying everyone should be comfortable.
0:44:42 But, you know, if you’re if you’re getting the medication for the same price
0:44:46 with more medicine and you split it out, it ends up being cheaper per month.
0:44:48 Yeah, this is not a drug that I want to take for years.
0:44:51 Right. Yeah, it’s not a drug I plan to take again.
0:44:53 But it’s been an interesting experiment.
0:44:55 I started tracking my macros, though,
0:44:58 and like how much how many calories am I consuming?
0:45:00 And the first week back on it, I was like, oh, my God,
0:45:03 I consume 500 calories in a day.
0:45:05 That’s insane. That’s insane.
0:45:06 I mean, that’s why you’re losing the weight.
0:45:08 And I’m sure there’s water weight there as well.
0:45:10 And yeah, but but I was still working out.
0:45:13 So then I got really aggressive about protein and I was like, OK,
0:45:15 I’m going to be consuming a lot of protein.
0:45:17 I’m not going to just consume 500 calories.
0:45:19 Like the calories can be low, but the protein has to be high
0:45:20 because I don’t want to do the muscle loss.
0:45:25 So I started trying all these protein cereals that we could put a link to a video
0:45:28 we were talking last night about making protein ice cream with the Ninja Colony.
0:45:29 Yes, yes.
0:45:34 Which I have yet to buy and use, but there are some great recipes
0:45:38 using like protein powder, sugar-free pudding mix and whole milk.
0:45:42 And you can make these like a couple of my friends do this
0:45:46 like delicious ice cream that is like 100 calories and super packed with protein.
0:45:48 And using the Ninja Creamy.
0:45:51 I got to get a Ninja cream, which is like an at home ice cream maker.
0:45:53 Me with the Ninja folks.
0:45:56 Yeah, the blender blenders. Yeah.
0:45:59 So now I’m aggressively focused on protein because I don’t want to have muscle loss.
0:46:00 I’m working out a lot.
0:46:05 Yeah, I’m doing a pre and post dexa scan to see how the effects of that are.
0:46:07 That’s good. Yeah.
0:46:09 And I started getting into these diagnostics.
0:46:13 I read a lot of Atea stuff and there are some things you could just change.
0:46:17 For me, cholesterol, I mean, anyone who has high cholesterol,
0:46:20 the craziest thing about cholesterol, which I just don’t understand it,
0:46:26 is the way our medicine system works is until you have like a 10 year likelihood
0:46:30 above X of getting a cardiovascular event, they do nothing.
0:46:33 And when you cross that camp, they treat it like it’s a huge problem.
0:46:34 Right. It’s too late.
0:46:36 When in reality, you could start a lot earlier.
0:46:41 And so I went and did a calcium score test, which I think if you do it,
0:46:45 depending on the place, but Stanford has a pretty inexpensive one, like hundreds of dollars,
0:46:48 you can find out, do I already have calcium in my arteries?
0:46:52 Yeah. And for people that don’t know, calcium in the arteries is just a sign
0:46:53 that damage has occurred.
0:46:59 And so there’s calcification deposits inside the artery walls.
0:47:04 And if anything comes back, meaning like you get the scan done and it’s not zero,
0:47:07 that means like all hands on deck, you need to pay attention.
0:47:12 Like a bad thing, having high cholesterol increases the propensity for plaque in the arteries.
0:47:14 And this means that not only is there plaque, but it’s calcified.
0:47:16 You can’t really remove it. It’s there.
0:47:19 But if you catch it early enough, you can really start to be aggressive.
0:47:22 So I did this. I had one of four arteries had a score of two.
0:47:25 And it goes from like zero to it could be over a thousand.
0:47:29 So I had the best worst outcome.
0:47:30 The best outcome is a zero everywhere.
0:47:33 The best worst outcome, I guess, would be a one in one artery and I had a two.
0:47:35 And did you do that with contrast or no?
0:47:38 So then I was like, OK, I want to know how much soft plaque there is.
0:47:40 So I met with a cardiologist at UCSF and he’s like, well,
0:47:46 if there’s a lot of soft plaque and it’s about to be calcified, that’s even worse.
0:47:52 And I went and got a CT angiogram, which is a more expensive thing, which I have no idea why,
0:47:53 but was covered by insurance.
0:47:56 And I don’t think it was supposed to be, but you know, I’m not I’m not questioning that.
0:48:00 And it came back with a zero on all four arteries.
0:48:00 That’s so crazy.
0:48:03 And then I asked if they could review.
0:48:04 Like I said, could you have the person?
0:48:05 I did the same facility.
0:48:09 I was like, could you have the person that did the first one and the second one talk?
0:48:11 Because it doesn’t make sense that I got mixed results.
0:48:14 And they were like, the results are within the margin of error.
0:48:15 So there’s no point in doing this.
0:48:17 So I don’t know if I have a two or a zero.
0:48:21 But having a zero on the CT angiogram makes me feel pretty good.
0:48:26 But my primary care physician, which is not a fancy price of one medical doctor,
0:48:28 was like, we’re going to put you on statins.
0:48:29 And we’re going to lower your APOB.
0:48:30 We’re going to lower your LDL.
0:48:31 APOB is a huge one.
0:48:34 We’ll put a link in the show notes to a lot of Ateas.
0:48:35 Yeah, he’s done a bunch of stuff.
0:48:35 Stuff like that.
0:48:38 I’m not an expert on cardiovascular disease and all this stuff.
0:48:40 But that set me on this aggressive path.
0:48:43 So I was like, OK, I think everybody should be doing their diagnostics.
0:48:43 Yeah.
0:48:44 Where’s my blood work?
0:48:49 You can change your APOB by taking statins, which is what I’ve done.
0:48:51 And you can change your LDL and all this stuff.
0:48:54 There are a few things that I’m now pretty interested in because they take longer.
0:48:58 So testing your VO2 max, testing your bone density, your visceral fats, those things.
0:49:00 You can’t change those overnight with a drug.
0:49:01 That takes time.
0:49:04 Yeah, but you got DEXA to give you the accurate results on that.
0:49:06 Those DEXA scans are where to go.
0:49:06 Yeah.
0:49:10 And so there’s a company called DEXAFIT, which I’m working with right now.
0:49:14 I’m actually meeting the founder this week because they have facilities all over the country.
0:49:19 And my goal, by the way, with the podcast, and I think I’m going to help push you to this goal,
0:49:23 is there are a lot of podcasts out there that have sponsors from whoever wants to pay them.
0:49:26 My approach to sponsorship, which I think if you have sponsors on the show,
0:49:29 will be the same, is I’m just going to find all the companies I love.
0:49:29 Yeah.
0:49:30 I’m going to reach out to all of them.
0:49:30 Yeah.
0:49:31 And I’m going to work with them.
0:49:32 That’s the only way to do it.
0:49:35 I’ve done hundreds of podcasts.
0:49:37 I mean, the Kevin Rose shows now.
0:49:42 Obviously, I took a little hiatus there, but it’s like 50 episodes plus deep.
0:49:44 Never took a sponsor.
0:49:47 And it was because if I ever take a sponsor,
0:49:52 I always wanted to be something I can truly back and get behind and believe in.
0:49:54 Because otherwise, you’re just killing your own reputation.
0:49:55 It’s horrible.
0:50:00 One of the things I want to ask you about real quick, though, is in spirit of all this
0:50:05 cardiovascular health, one of the things that many people point to, Peter,
0:50:09 especially Rhonda Patrick, the scientist who’s done a lot of research on this front,
0:50:12 is the benefits of hot sauna usage.
0:50:15 And I know that you just built a sauna.
0:50:18 I have a sauna here that’s a piece of crap.
0:50:19 We looked at it last night.
0:50:21 It came with the house.
0:50:21 It looks beautiful.
0:50:26 Looks beautiful, but it was built for beauty, not for comfort.
0:50:26 Wait, how does it work?
0:50:27 Built for…
0:50:29 It was built for someone to buy a house.
0:50:30 Built for comfort, not for…
0:50:32 Yeah, yeah, it was built for someone to buy a house.
0:50:34 So it’s got a lot of glass and it looks fancy,
0:50:36 but it’s actually a pretty shitty sauna.
0:50:37 It doesn’t get hot enough.
0:50:41 I will say you went really deep.
0:50:43 We were talking about this last night on how to build a sauna.
0:50:44 You built one.
0:50:46 You were swimming pictures along the way.
0:50:49 You were doing it near outside, right near my yard.
0:50:52 Yeah, I’ve got my studio, a sauna and a cold plunge.
0:50:53 And we’ll get the cold plunge later.
0:50:58 Yeah, so let’s just talk real quick about the data is out there.
0:51:00 Rhonda Patrick, if you look at our show notes,
0:51:02 it’ll be linked to Rhonda Patrick’s sauna.
0:51:06 She has a multi-page PDF that she talks about,
0:51:09 the benefits of it, the reduction in all cause mortality,
0:51:10 the reduction in dementia risk,
0:51:12 the reduction in cardiovascular disease.
0:51:14 It’s really meaningful.
0:51:15 A lot of these studies are in Finland
0:51:17 and they look at people that go four days a week
0:51:18 and no days a week.
0:51:19 And they are living longer.
0:51:24 But one of the key things in her document
0:51:25 is that you need to…
0:51:28 It looks like the sweet spot for this is about…
0:51:34 In Fahrenheit is 175 degrees Fahrenheit at the chest level,
0:51:37 20 to 25 minutes per session.
0:51:38 And that’s pretty hot.
0:51:40 Like most American saunas,
0:51:42 in fact, there’s these governors on some of the saunas
0:51:44 that won’t let them even go that hot.
0:51:49 You did the research, you went and studied the papers.
0:51:52 Tell us about that document that you found from the Finns.
0:51:53 Like what did you figure out?
0:51:54 What’s so funny?
0:51:57 So Finland is probably the D place to go.
0:51:59 If you’re like, I want to feel this word
0:52:01 and I’m going to mispronounce it called loily,
0:52:04 L-O-Y-L-Y, is like the finished word
0:52:07 for that experience and the feeling of being in a good sauna.
0:52:09 And it doesn’t translate perfectly.
0:52:11 Just like it’s like the umami of sauna.
0:52:12 It’s like there’s no perfect translation.
0:52:13 You just know it when you feel it.
0:52:14 Right.
0:52:17 And what the Finns say is that 90% of saunas
0:52:18 in North America are bad.
0:52:20 And then 10% are even worse.
0:52:20 Right.
0:52:24 And I experienced this when I was talking to people
0:52:25 about how to build saunas.
0:52:27 People love these barrel saunas.
0:52:30 And then you look at the actual way the sauna’s structured
0:52:31 and you’re like, what’s going on?
0:52:33 And so there’s this guide that we can link to in the show notes
0:52:36 called Trumpkin’s Guide to Sauna Building.
0:52:38 And then within that doc, there’s other pages
0:52:39 that are, you know, the guide to ventilation.
0:52:43 And each one of these guides is probably 50, 60 pages.
0:52:45 And I’ve gone through all of them, read all these details.
0:52:47 And I was like, this is the sauna I want to build.
0:52:49 And there are a lot of rules to building a good sauna.
0:52:52 But the kind of most important things,
0:52:53 if you want to just visually be like,
0:52:54 what’s the most important?
0:52:55 Feed above the stones.
0:52:58 Because how it generally works is there’s a heater
0:52:59 and the heater off puts heat.
0:53:00 And I think everyone probably knows that heat rises.
0:53:04 And so if you’re sitting on the same level as the heater,
0:53:07 the heat’s going up and you’re not in that cavity of warm air.
0:53:07 Right.
0:53:09 So you need to have your feet above the salt.
0:53:10 You need to have your feet above the stones
0:53:13 and not in that cold zone.
0:53:14 And then you want proper ventilation.
0:53:17 And you want ventilation in a way that’s kind of funny
0:53:18 because we were looking at your sauna.
0:53:20 And your sauna is like the exact opposite way
0:53:21 that you should ventilate a sauna.
0:53:24 You want this intake coming from above the heater.
0:53:26 And you want an exhaust coming from like the other side
0:53:28 of the room on the floor.
0:53:30 And what that does is it’s pulling the air
0:53:31 that’s right above the heater, the hottest,
0:53:33 and circulating around the sauna.
0:53:36 So you have a nice, even feeling of warmth.
0:53:37 Well, one question there.
0:53:42 Because in my head, if the intake is above the heater
0:53:44 and heat rises, why wouldn’t that just be
0:53:46 turn into the outtake and the heat would just go out that way?
0:53:49 So there’s a fan in, we have a fan in each.
0:53:52 So the fan on the intake is blowing in.
0:53:54 And the fan on the exhaust is blowing out.
0:53:55 So it creates this cycle.
0:53:57 And there’s some cool ways to visualize it.
0:53:59 You see, it kind of circulates a little.
0:54:00 It creates this.
0:54:02 And the fans all have vents on them.
0:54:03 So you can kind of, it’s not like you,
0:54:07 you know, if someone’s hooked up on an exterior, you know.
0:54:09 Or there’s like lawn blower things, blowing air.
0:54:10 And it’s not that extreme.
0:54:14 And that, that’s, that’s the basics.
0:54:16 Obviously there’s like 70 pages that will do it.
0:54:18 You can go deep.
0:54:20 But if you look at a lot of these saunas,
0:54:22 yours is a great example.
0:54:24 A lot of the barrel saunas out there,
0:54:26 your feet are on the ground.
0:54:28 And the heater, so like you’re, you’re,
0:54:29 you want your feet above the stones.
0:54:30 But in a lot of these saunas,
0:54:32 you don’t even have your chest above the stones.
0:54:34 And so that was always really important.
0:54:37 So you need a sauna that’s like probably ideally seven,
0:54:39 eight feet tall so that you can put a heater on the ground
0:54:41 and then be above it.
0:54:43 And so I was, I was trying to figure out what to do.
0:54:46 And I found this company that made a barrel sauna that,
0:54:49 usually barrel saunas, you sit on the sides
0:54:52 and they did one that was narrow and you sit on the back wall.
0:54:53 And I was like, okay, this kind of works.
0:54:54 It’s not ideal, but it’s okay.
0:54:57 And then I was in this signal group
0:55:00 with a bunch of people who’ve sold companies
0:55:02 and two guys just happened the day
0:55:03 before I was going to check out on the sauna company,
0:55:05 we were like, we’re launching the sauna company.
0:55:08 It’s called Haven sauna.
0:55:10 And they haven’t, they haven’t launched yet.
0:55:13 So there’s a landing page, but, and I was like,
0:55:14 oh, let’s talk to him.
0:55:16 Like I’ve just gone so deep on the sauna.
0:55:18 – The sauna company to do what, like installation saunas?
0:55:21 – Build saunas, like, like the prefab saunas
0:55:23 that you can customize a bit and put outdoors.
0:55:26 So think, if you remember that,
0:55:28 one of the Airbnb founders launched this ADU company
0:55:31 where you can customize an ADU in your backyard.
0:55:33 You know, you choose like five or six different things.
0:55:35 But it’s not a full custom build.
0:55:36 – Right, right, right.
0:55:37 – And so I talked to them.
0:55:38 – It’s prefab essentially, like, yeah.
0:55:39 – With a little bit of change.
0:55:41 It’s not, it’s not like a tough shed
0:55:42 where you just buy the model.
0:55:43 – But done the right way.
0:55:44 Like they get it.
0:55:46 – And I talked to them and they were like,
0:55:46 talking about Trumpkin.
0:55:49 And I was like, oh, you guys know your stuff.
0:55:52 And they’re like, yeah, we want to build the best saunas,
0:55:54 but we want those saunas to be very high quality
0:55:56 and actually a good experience.
0:55:59 Because the longevity studies of saunas in Finland,
0:56:03 you know, if you create a sauna and you think it’s 175,
0:56:04 but it turns out like, if you didn’t have a thermometer
0:56:08 in yours at chest height, you can set it to 175.
0:56:09 But at chest height, it might only be 100 degrees.
0:56:11 – Oh yeah, I mean, I brought, I have these,
0:56:17 I went on Amazon and bought literal like remote meat probes
0:56:18 that you can stick into steaks and like,
0:56:20 you know, they’re Bluetooth.
0:56:22 And so I, and I brought it in the sauna
0:56:24 and I just set it at my chest height.
0:56:25 So I wasn’t touching it.
0:56:27 So I wasn’t heating it up myself.
0:56:28 And it was like 110.
0:56:29 And I’m just like, this is, this is not.
0:56:31 – Your sauna was probably set to like 200.
0:56:34 – Well, at the ceiling, it was like 230 or whatever.
0:56:36 That’s the other thing too, we should talk about
0:56:40 because most saunas that you buy in the States,
0:56:42 they have a maximum heat of what, 190?
0:56:45 – Yeah, so there’s, there’s this like universal code,
0:56:47 UL thing, and there’s, and there’s all these rules
0:56:50 about how hot things can go and shutoffs.
0:56:52 And so a lot of American saunas, if you import heaters,
0:56:55 or if you buy a saun, heaters built to sell in the US,
0:56:57 you also want to vent under the heater
0:57:00 to keep the heater elements at the bottom of the heater cool.
0:57:03 Because that’ll prevent them from tripping
0:57:04 and shutting off for 10, 15 minutes.
0:57:07 And you could read a lot about that in this guide also.
0:57:09 There’s a company called Hume, H-U-U-M,
0:57:10 which sells sauna heaters.
0:57:13 But I think technically they’re classified
0:57:14 as baseboard heaters.
0:57:17 And so they don’t follow that regulation.
0:57:19 TBD, whether that’s on a burned your house down,
0:57:22 how that might affect your insurance, I’m not sure.
0:57:25 But in general, you know,
0:57:26 there’s a lot you can do to make a good sauna.
0:57:30 I’ll back up and say, if you buy a sauna from Costco,
0:57:33 which by the way, Costco is one of the best deals for saunas,
0:57:36 you can get a nice four-person non-barrel sauna
0:57:41 for $4,000 on Costco, that I would say is pretty good.
0:57:42 Even a barrel sauna is not going to be
0:57:43 the worst sauna in the world.
0:57:45 I know lots of people that have them and love them.
0:57:47 So I’m saying you could go as far as you want,
0:57:48 you could buy really nice headphones,
0:57:50 or you can buy $2 earbuds.
0:57:51 There’s a spectrum.
0:57:53 And I think you’re probably going to get a decent amount
0:57:55 of the value from a longevity
0:57:58 and especially relaxation standpoint in any sauna.
0:58:02 But, you know, I like, my focus is on better outcomes.
0:58:04 So like, how do I get the best sauna?
0:58:06 – And so you went with that Hume baseboard heater?
0:58:09 – Hume heater, it’s called a Hive Mini.
0:58:12 And it’s great, it’s got, I think it’s beautiful also,
0:58:14 but it’s very functional, it gets the room hot.
0:58:18 And yeah, so I worked with these two guys,
0:58:20 Zach and Ross, who started the sauna company.
0:58:23 And you know, we were kind of like a demo of experimenting.
0:58:26 And so we built the sauna, it’s up and running,
0:58:27 it’s fantastic.
0:58:28 – What all in price?
0:58:31 Like, so you could have done that or you could have gone Costco.
0:58:32 What’s the all in price?
0:58:35 – I would say the range in saunas is probably somewhere
0:58:38 between $2,500 would be like, I mean,
0:58:40 they have these weird saunas you can buy on Amazon
0:58:43 that are like, basically like a heater
0:58:46 and a bunch of material that you can wrap around your body
0:58:48 and stick your head out the hole.
0:58:51 Like, you could probably get a sauna for $300.
0:58:53 – Yeah, and those work too.
0:58:54 I have a friend that does that,
0:58:55 that actually has one of those body ones
0:58:58 that they just lay in a sleeping bag type situation.
0:59:00 They sweat their ass off and it goes up to their neck.
0:59:03 And but, you know, like she can’t afford
0:59:04 to have a $4,000 sauna.
0:59:05 – And that’s fine, yeah.
0:59:06 For the health benefits.
0:59:07 – Is there any one of those that you liked?
0:59:08 You know, having this?
0:59:10 – I haven’t tried one, I haven’t used one.
0:59:13 – I’ll put a show note to the one that my friend uses.
0:59:17 She swears by hers and she sweats her ass off in it.
0:59:19 – But part of the reason we love the sauna is,
0:59:22 Amy, my wife and I, we go in the sauna
0:59:25 after we put the kids down for like 20, 30 minutes at night
0:59:28 and we have this uninterrupted, no devices,
0:59:32 time for us to talk, to catch up, to relax.
0:59:33 Like, you know, all kinds of stuff.
0:59:35 So like that, you’re not gonna get that
0:59:37 in like a sleeping bag with a heating unit.
0:59:40 So that’s part of the reason we want it.
0:59:42 But I’d say the low end, you could find,
0:59:43 so Costco has these great,
0:59:44 I don’t know how they get away with this.
0:59:46 There’s this company, Almost Heaven.
0:59:47 You could buy an Almost Heaven sauna on the internet
0:59:48 or you could buy it at Costco.
0:59:50 And you’re gonna save way more
0:59:52 than the $65 Costco membership.
0:59:54 Just by buying it through Costco.
0:59:55 Though, if you’re thinking to buy an Almost Heaven sauna.
0:59:56 – Does it get hot enough?
0:59:59 – Yeah, it has good heaters, like all this stuff.
1:00:00 It’s a great sauna.
1:00:04 Our problem was we had a very specific place
1:00:07 we wanted to put it and the dimensions weren’t correct.
1:00:08 And, you know, the design element,
1:00:11 like I wouldn’t say it’s a beautiful, modern design.
1:00:13 If you go to havensana.com
1:00:14 and see kind of what they’re building,
1:00:16 it looks different.
1:00:19 And those could probably be in the range of $20, $25,000.
1:00:22 And so it’s a spectrum, you know,
1:00:23 if you’re focused just on the health benefits,
1:00:25 you don’t need to go all the way up.
1:00:26 If you want to focus on aesthetics
1:00:28 and you could spend a lot more.
1:00:31 But I think if you’re spending more than $30,000 on a sauna,
1:00:32 like there’s probably a lot.
1:00:35 – Yeah, let’s talk about cold plunge.
1:00:37 One of the things that I started doing,
1:00:39 you saw me this morning, I jumped in my pool,
1:00:42 which was freezing and then I did the contrast
1:00:45 with the jacuzzi went back and forth.
1:00:48 You did not join me this morning.
1:00:49 – I didn’t know it was happening.
1:00:50 I had already showered.
1:00:51 – I know.
1:00:52 But it was great.
1:00:54 It’s funny ’cause I done the Wim Hof Method,
1:00:56 you know, 10 years ago.
1:00:58 And the Wim Hof Method is, you know, the ice man,
1:01:02 he trains you on how to endure kind of cold exposure.
1:01:05 I had so much energy and just felt amazing
1:01:07 after doing that.
1:01:08 By the end of the Wim Hof Method,
1:01:12 I was 15 minutes up to my neck in ice water in a bathtub.
1:01:16 So like I bought 10 bags of ice, I put it in the bathtub.
1:01:21 And I think in terms of like probably like the best comparable
1:01:23 I can give you would be like a couple cups of coffee.
1:01:26 Like it just like gives you that energy in the morning
1:01:28 and that clarity that is beautiful.
1:01:29 You feel amazing.
1:01:32 I know there’s not as much longevity data
1:01:34 on the science side to support the cold plunge,
1:01:37 but I will tell you just for me personally
1:01:40 and people that I know that do it, they love it.
1:01:42 And so, you know, I know Tony Robbins,
1:01:43 I’ve talked to him about it.
1:01:46 He’s done it. He talked about that on my podcast.
1:01:49 You know, Joe Rogan’s done it.
1:01:51 He continues to do it.
1:01:54 He, I just saw a post about his, you know,
1:01:55 obviously Tim’s done it.
1:01:57 A bunch of our friends have done this.
1:01:58 I’m really enjoying it.
1:02:00 It’s kind of like my thing that I’m getting into.
1:02:03 You told me last night, ’cause I was telling you,
1:02:05 I’m using my pool for this right now.
1:02:07 But the pool, you know, summer months,
1:02:09 it’s gonna be warm to where I’m not really
1:02:10 gonna get the benefits, right?
1:02:11 Like that I really want the really cold, cold.
1:02:12 – Yeah, you want that.
1:02:13 – Excitement, you want that.
1:02:14 – Exactly.
1:02:15 – Kicking the gut in the morning.
1:02:16 – Yeah, exactly.
1:02:18 So, I’m wondering, you know,
1:02:20 you said that you had done a little bit of research
1:02:22 or you know of a company or two that does,
1:02:23 you mentioned two companies last night
1:02:25 when we were chatting.
1:02:27 What have you heard on the cold plunge front?
1:02:28 What are people liking?
1:02:29 What are some of the brands that you think
1:02:30 are doing a good job?
1:02:32 – Yeah, there’s a, again, a wide spectrum here, right?
1:02:34 Like, cheapest, take a cold shower.
1:02:37 Like, clock in your shower at the coldest temperature.
1:02:38 – I mean, that’s what they have you do
1:02:40 with the Wim Hof Method when you start.
1:02:41 – Yeah.
1:02:43 – Like, hey, turn the shower on the coldest possible setting
1:02:46 for 30 seconds, and then that’s like day one.
1:02:47 – Yeah.
1:02:48 – So, it’s like, and I think that’s a good way
1:02:51 before you drop the cash on an actual big ass plunge
1:02:53 and spend a lot of money,
1:02:55 see if you can get through the first couple of weeks
1:02:56 of the Wim Hof Method and know if you like it.
1:02:59 – I will say there’s something that, I don’t know why,
1:03:02 but feels easier about just like jumping into the water
1:03:04 as opposed to like, I don’t know, walking in a cold shower.
1:03:07 It’s just, it’s like cheaper, but mentally,
1:03:07 I think it’s pretty hard.
1:03:09 – Yeah.
1:03:10 – And so, that’s one end.
1:03:12 You can buy, you know, freezers,
1:03:15 like chest freezers and like retrofit them.
1:03:18 The way most cold plunges work is there’s a chiller,
1:03:19 and it’s a thing you plug into the wall,
1:03:21 use electricity, cycles water through,
1:03:22 and keeps the water cold.
1:03:26 And so, you hook up a chiller to a bath,
1:03:28 either by buying a chiller and, you know,
1:03:30 connecting hoses and a Home Depot setup
1:03:32 to a freezer or other method.
1:03:34 – Yeah, just so people know that,
1:03:36 that chest freezer hack, you can find them online.
1:03:38 They’re those little mini freezers
1:03:40 that you can get to like store meat in your garage
1:03:41 or whatever, you know.
1:03:42 They’re like the sideways freezers,
1:03:44 not like the vertical freezers.
1:03:47 And I’ve seen people retrofit those,
1:03:50 ’cause in theory, they’re waterproof, they’re sealed.
1:03:51 I don’t know that they can,
1:03:54 I’ve seen people like do all kinds of like,
1:03:55 additional waterproofing to them,
1:03:57 and then turn them into these freezers
1:03:59 where they plug them into the wall,
1:04:00 they let the water get to temperature,
1:04:01 and then they climb it.
1:04:04 The important thing to note,
1:04:07 unplug the freezer before you get into it.
1:04:09 You do not wanna use a device like that,
1:04:11 like that’s plugged into the wall.
1:04:13 Oh, it’s on, you gotta do it.
1:04:14 ‘Cause like, they’re not meant to be.
1:04:15 – No, no, no, I just,
1:04:16 I’ve seen some people that just use it
1:04:19 as an insulated thing with an external chiller.
1:04:20 – Right, right, right.
1:04:21 – But that’s the way to do it.
1:04:22 – Using the freezer as the chiller.
1:04:23 – Yeah, oh, I’ve seen people do it as a freezer.
1:04:24 I’m like, you’re gonna get electrocuted
1:04:26 ’cause ultimately there’s gonna be a leak
1:04:28 and it’s gonna hit that freaking 110
1:04:30 and you’re gonna be fried, so not good.
1:04:32 – And then there’s a company called Ice Barrel,
1:04:34 which sells just, it’s literally like,
1:04:35 you know those blue drums?
1:04:36 It’s just like a drum.
1:04:38 But then you gotta, it’s B-Y-O-Ice.
1:04:39 – You need ice.
1:04:40 – Yeah.
1:04:42 – And so, I mean, you can use your bathtub and ice.
1:04:43 – Yeah.
1:04:44 – But you gotta buy an ice maker
1:04:46 or you gotta go, you know, drive to the store
1:04:47 and buy ice all the time.
1:04:50 And so, then there’s some really high-end ones,
1:04:52 but the company that’s probably the most well known
1:04:55 for this is called the Cold Plunge or Plunge.
1:04:56 I think they used to be the Cold Plunge,
1:04:58 now the brand is Plunge.
1:05:00 And they make a beautiful white tub,
1:05:02 kinda looks like a fancy bathtub,
1:05:05 and they have a chiller either external
1:05:06 or integrated into the unit.
1:05:08 You can keep it down to 39.
1:05:10 You can keep it at 55, whatever you want.
1:05:11 It has a filtration system, like a hot tub.
1:05:12 Like you put–
1:05:13 – Can you have one of these?
1:05:15 – I have a Cold Plunge from Plunge.
1:05:16 – Okay.
1:05:17 Do you have the integrated one or the external one?
1:05:18 – The external one.
1:05:21 The integrated one hadn’t been built when we did that.
1:05:23 And it’s great.
1:05:25 The water’s always at the right temperature.
1:05:26 You treat it like a hot tub,
1:05:27 like you put the little strip in,
1:05:28 you see what the chemical levels are,
1:05:30 you add it. – Is that a pain in the ass though?
1:05:31 – So here’s what’s funny.
1:05:33 We have a hot tub and we have a Cold Plunge.
1:05:35 And the hot tub, I feel like I’m always adding
1:05:36 chemicals to it.
1:05:38 And the Cold Plunge, I feel like I’m always testing it
1:05:39 with a strip.
1:05:42 And very rarely is it out of balance.
1:05:45 pH is good, alkalinity is good.
1:05:49 So I add like a tablespoon of sanitizer once a week
1:05:51 or twice a week or once every two weeks.
1:05:53 Just kind of depending on the level of,
1:05:55 I think it’s bromine is what they recommend.
1:05:56 It’s not that much.
1:05:58 Like they also have a, I forgot what it’s called,
1:06:00 but it keeps the water clear,
1:06:00 but the water’s already clear.
1:06:01 So I don’t even–
1:06:03 – Are you checking about the UV light stuff?
1:06:04 ‘Cause they–
1:06:04 – No, no, no.
1:06:06 I can’t remember what the name of it is,
1:06:07 but there’s a thing that makes water clear
1:06:09 and the thing that makes water clean.
1:06:10 – Oh, I didn’t check that, yeah.
1:06:12 – And so it’s really not that much.
1:06:15 Like hot tub maintenance to me feels 10 times more.
1:06:16 – And it has a cover for it.
1:06:17 You keep it outside.
1:06:20 – They even send like a thing to attach a phone
1:06:23 to hang over the edge, which we actually use in the sauna.
1:06:25 We suction cup it to the wall so we can look at the baby
1:06:27 monitor while we’re in the sauna.
1:06:29 And it’s great, it’s at the right temperature.
1:06:31 We’re using it more at night.
1:06:34 Sauna, hop in the Cold Plunge for five minutes,
1:06:36 hop back in the sauna.
1:06:37 – That contrast therapy is amazing.
1:06:38 – It’s great.
1:06:39 And we love it.
1:06:41 I don’t use it that much in the morning,
1:06:43 like you do to kickstart my day.
1:06:44 But at night, it’s great.
1:06:45 I feel like–
1:06:46 – Are you using it like five times a day?
1:06:47 Like, or a week?
1:06:48 Or what are you–
1:06:49 – Well, we probably three, four times a week.
1:06:50 – Okay.
1:06:52 – I probably should get to four
1:06:53 from all the data on the studies,
1:06:55 but we’re using it.
1:06:59 And man, you just sauna in Cold Plunge and go to bed.
1:06:59 You sleep so well.
1:07:00 – Yeah, it’s amazing.
1:07:01 – It’s amazing.
1:07:03 The impact on sleep is great.
1:07:05 And so, yeah, Cold Plunge.
1:07:06 And like I said earlier,
1:07:10 we gotta get you set up with deals for your listeners also.
1:07:12 But I think we got a deal for Cold Plunge.
1:07:14 Hopefully we got one for Dex-a-Fit.
1:07:16 I’m just gonna plug all the hacks.com/deals.
1:07:17 I’m not gonna plug all these URLs.
1:07:20 But if you go there, any company that I love,
1:07:22 I have tried to source a deal for.
1:07:22 – Sweet.
1:07:27 You mentioned, we’ve talked about using chat GBT
1:07:29 for all kinds of stuff in our life,
1:07:31 especially over the last, it feels like,
1:07:33 six months to a year.
1:07:37 You mentioned uploading your blood work to chat GBT.
1:07:38 – Yeah, I mean, it’s just so funny.
1:07:42 I got my blood work done for cholesterol three years ago.
1:07:45 And I went to my doctor, real doctor, like, has an MD.
1:07:47 And I was like, what do you think I should do?
1:07:50 And the doctor’s advice was like, you know,
1:07:52 eat healthy and exercise.
1:07:55 And I was like, okay, but it’s been this way for a long time.
1:07:56 And finally, there were other doctors
1:07:58 that were telling me other things.
1:08:01 And so I found that chat GBT for almost anything
1:08:04 is great as a sounding board and it doesn’t cost anything.
1:08:07 So I’m like, I took a screenshot of my biomarkers,
1:08:09 took the screenshot, uploaded to chat GBT.
1:08:10 – As a PDF.
1:08:11 – As an image.
1:08:12 – Image, okay.
1:08:13 – And then I was just like, what can you tell me
1:08:14 about my biomarker?
1:08:15 – Did you say act like you’re Peter Atia and give me?
1:08:17 – That would have been even better, I was like, thank you.
1:08:20 Go read Peter Atia’s website and now give me advice.
1:08:21 I probably could have done that.
1:08:23 And I was just like, tell me what you see.
1:08:26 And then I was like, tell me if looking at it
1:08:28 comprehensively instead of individually,
1:08:29 are there any things you notice
1:08:32 because multiple things are out of whack?
1:08:35 What other diagnostics could I take
1:08:38 if I wanted to drill into this thing?
1:08:40 I’m not using it to replace the doctor,
1:08:42 but I’m using it to come up with a series of ideas
1:08:44 and questions and things that I can come to the doctor
1:08:47 and be like, hey, these three things are high.
1:08:50 These are three diagnostics that might help.
1:08:51 Which one would you prioritize?
1:08:55 And the question I loved asking my doctor was,
1:08:57 ’cause I think doctors so often are focused
1:08:58 on what’s gonna be covered by insurance.
1:09:00 And a lot of these things aren’t, right?
1:09:01 You want a whole body MRI, not covered.
1:09:04 You wanna do a grail test for, which is a blood test
1:09:06 for different types of cancer, not covered by insurance.
1:09:08 So I went to the doctor and I was like,
1:09:12 if I’m gonna spend $1,000 this year on my health
1:09:14 that’s not covered by insurance,
1:09:15 where can I have the most impact
1:09:18 either treating or testing something?
1:09:22 Because so often the advice they’re trained to give
1:09:26 is the advice on what they know is gonna be covered
1:09:27 because the doctor doesn’t wanna be like,
1:09:30 oh, here’s what you should do, this thing not covered.
1:09:32 Now also, by the way, many of these things,
1:09:35 biomarker tests are all FSA and HSA eligible.
1:09:38 So if you work in a company that lets you contribute
1:09:41 to an FSA, you can throw money in there, tax deductible.
1:09:42 If you have a high deductible health plan
1:09:45 that’s HSA eligible, you can put money there, use it there.
1:09:47 So there are ways to get a lot of these costs down
1:09:49 from a tax standpoint.
1:09:54 And so he recommended the calcium test.
1:09:57 He was like, that seems like if there’s a dollar for dollar
1:09:59 given your history, spending $500 here
1:10:02 would be probably the most valuable thing you can do.
1:10:03 But I did, and sure enough,
1:10:06 it was an incredibly great suggestion.
1:10:09 And so I like that question.
1:10:09 – Yeah.
1:10:13 – I also think, by the way, this is just a side note,
1:10:15 but when it comes to medical bills,
1:10:17 I don’t know if everyone knows they’re negotiable.
1:10:20 Like, if you go to the doctor and it’s a certain price,
1:10:22 you can say, hey, I’m paying out of cash.
1:10:23 Is there a better price?
1:10:26 If you get a bill from a hospital, you can negotiate it.
1:10:28 I did an episode with this guy, Marshall Allen,
1:10:29 who is a journalist.
1:10:32 He wrote this book called Never Pay the First Bill.
1:10:34 And I can link to it, we won’t go through it,
1:10:34 but basically it’s like,
1:10:36 you can almost negotiate all these medical bills.
1:10:38 And people have saved tens of thousands of dollars
1:10:40 negotiating their medical bills.
1:10:41 – What do you say?
1:10:43 Do you just say like, hey, I can’t afford this?
1:10:45 – He has scripts for this.
1:10:47 Both if you have a bill that has happened
1:10:48 and you’ve already had service,
1:10:51 there are some rules in many states that like,
1:10:55 facilities can’t charge more than what the average price is.
1:10:56 It doesn’t mean they can’t.
1:10:57 It just means that when you fight them,
1:10:58 they’re gonna have to lower.
1:11:02 So I went to, I thought I had something go wrong.
1:11:03 I didn’t know what it was.
1:11:04 It turns out it was shingles, but I didn’t know.
1:11:05 – Oh, I remember that.
1:11:07 – And I drove down to-
1:11:08 – You were in so much pain.
1:11:08 – I was in so much pain.
1:11:11 It felt like battery acid was leaking in my body.
1:11:13 So I drove to the emergency room
1:11:15 and the bill was like $11,000
1:11:16 to do a couple of diagnostics,
1:11:18 see a doctor and get some ibuprofen.
1:11:21 And fortunately, my insurance covered that.
1:11:23 But if my insurance didn’t cover that,
1:11:26 I’m fairly certain I could have negotiated that price.
1:11:28 In fact, one of the things that showed up,
1:11:31 and this is what’s crazy about our medical system,
1:11:34 I made sure that I went to an ER that was in network, right?
1:11:36 ‘Cause I have an EPO, only covers in network.
1:11:39 And I go to the ER and the ER was in network,
1:11:42 but the doctor that worked at the ER was out of network
1:11:43 and they tried to charge me for it.
1:11:46 And I fought that and I didn’t pay for it.
1:11:49 And so I would say if you have a medical bill,
1:11:50 go negotiate it.
1:11:52 If you have a really high deductible on your health plan
1:11:54 and you’re paying out of pocket,
1:11:57 most facilities have a cash rate that’s better
1:11:58 than the insurance rate
1:11:59 ’cause they have to go through a lot of hassle
1:12:00 to accept insurance.
1:12:02 So ask for that cash rate.
1:12:04 – Speaking of spending $1,000
1:12:06 and getting the most bang for the buck,
1:12:09 health-wise, the thing that I have been doing
1:12:12 that caught my brain aneurysm
1:12:14 was a company called Prinovo.
1:12:17 And so Prinovo does full-body MRIs.
1:12:18 You don’t need a prescription for it.
1:12:19 You don’t need to talk to a doctor.
1:12:21 You can go and sign up directly on the website.
1:12:23 They’ve got a handful locations here
1:12:24 in the United States now.
1:12:26 They’re opening up new offices all the time.
1:12:27 – It’s like a couple thousand dollars.
1:12:30 – Yeah, it’s basically $9.99 just to get the torso done.
1:12:34 Head and torso is $17.99 and then whole body is $24.99.
1:12:38 But it’s one of those things where they can catch
1:12:40 as early as stage one solid tumors.
1:12:42 Like they can get stuff really early.
1:12:45 And I was chatting with one of the doctors over there,
1:12:47 one of the radiologists and they said like,
1:12:50 he goes, you wouldn’t believe the number
1:12:53 of unopened bottles of wine I have sitting on my shelf
1:12:55 from people that send him thank you saying,
1:12:57 hey, you caught this at stage one.
1:13:00 And because of that, it was curable.
1:13:02 – We have a mutual friend who we worked with
1:13:04 that would not be alive today.
1:13:06 Had he not caught a cancerous tumor.
1:13:07 – Brain tumor, yeah.
1:13:10 – From a pernevo scan though like.
1:13:11 – I didn’t know it was cancerous.
1:13:13 – Oh, maybe it wasn’t, it was a brain tumor.
1:13:15 I don’t remember, maybe it wasn’t cancerous,
1:13:18 but caught a brain tumor that would have killed him.
1:13:20 Had he not caught it when he did.
1:13:23 – Yeah, it was insane what it shows.
1:13:25 Now there can be some false positives there as well.
1:13:29 – And it can send, yeah, there’s a lot of controversy
1:13:31 over this because you might find something
1:13:33 that left untreated would be fine.
1:13:36 But like force it, you can’t stop thinking about,
1:13:37 you don’t have a friend who has a tumor
1:13:40 that’s actually not something that is worth operating on.
1:13:43 But if you found out you had a tumor in your brain,
1:13:44 like it could drive you nuts.
1:13:46 – I mean, this is what happened with me.
1:13:48 I had the brain aneurysm and they’re like,
1:13:50 it’s not big enough to operate on.
1:13:52 And plus if you operate on an aneurysm,
1:13:54 it is, you know, it’s a scary procedure.
1:13:56 And there’s things they can do.
1:13:58 It’s almost like, it’s not a stint,
1:14:00 but it’s kind of like a stint where you can put these things
1:14:02 in there that prevent them from like, you know,
1:14:05 blowing up, which was what you don’t want.
1:14:07 And now you’re sitting there being like, you know,
1:14:09 either worrying about it or thinking about it.
1:14:10 And so, you know, you go back and get scans.
1:14:13 And if it doesn’t grow, you’re all good.
1:14:15 If it grows and you’re like, oh, shit,
1:14:16 now I have a taking time bomb, you know?
1:14:18 So there is some downsides to that.
1:14:20 But that said, you know, I’m glad I know
1:14:22 because now when it hits, I think it’s around
1:14:26 five to seven centimeters when it gets to that size,
1:14:28 then they can go and operate on it and take care of it
1:14:30 versus you just waiting for it to blow up
1:14:33 and not ever having known about it, right?
1:14:35 I don’t know if this is still possible,
1:14:39 but I reached out to Pranuvva when I wanted to do a scan
1:14:41 and I was like, is there a way to get a better price?
1:14:42 I mean, I do this for everything, right?
1:14:45 First of all, there’s this awesome thing I learned.
1:14:47 I interviewed this doctor, his name’s Aziz Ghazi Pura,
1:14:49 and he talks about rejection therapy
1:14:51 and like, as a way to build confidence.
1:14:52 And a great rejection therapy tactic
1:14:54 is just always ask for a discount
1:14:56 because you never know what happens.
1:14:58 And, you know, I don’t ask it in an aggressive way.
1:15:00 I’m just like, is there a way to get a better deal?
1:15:03 Pranuvva owns these machines to do MRIs.
1:15:06 And the only cost to run them is the electricity
1:15:09 and the administrator, which is not $2,500.
1:15:11 But, you know, it’s kind of a market price.
1:15:13 – Right.
1:15:14 – They came back to me and they were like,
1:15:18 if you are flexible enough to book it within 12 hours,
1:15:20 then there’s a–
1:15:21 – So they get a cancellation.
1:15:23 They’re paying for a tech to be there anyway.
1:15:24 – So I just sat on standby.
1:15:26 It’s about 20 minutes from my house.
1:15:28 And they were like, hey, we have some spots tomorrow
1:15:29 if you want to go.
1:15:31 And I got it for, I think, about half price.
1:15:32 – It’s amazing. – Which is a great deal
1:15:35 for them, right, like, otherwise it would go empty.
1:15:37 There are a lot of people who don’t have flexibility
1:15:38 in their day to just drop everything
1:15:41 on a few hours notice and go to a scan.
1:15:43 So I’m not saying that’s possible.
1:15:45 I’m talking to them right now about setting up a deal
1:15:47 for all the hacks members and listeners
1:15:49 that maybe by the time this airs, I’ll put on the page.
1:15:53 But I would say if you have a lot of flexibility,
1:15:54 it could be worth asking them
1:15:55 if they still do something like that.
1:15:58 They might have stopped doing it, but it’s worth an ask.
1:16:00 – Yeah, I should talk to, I met the founder.
1:16:01 He’s a super nice guy.
1:16:04 This was maybe two years ago.
1:16:06 He came in to say hi when I was getting my first scan
1:16:07 maybe three years ago.
1:16:09 And yeah, he was just expanding
1:16:11 and they’re doing great, great work.
1:16:15 I mean, the cool thing about this is like,
1:16:16 you may be listening to this episode and say like,
1:16:18 well, that’s nice guys.
1:16:21 You got 2,500 bucks to blow or whatever, even half that.
1:16:22 I don’t have that.
1:16:23 And that’s not the point.
1:16:26 The point is that if they can get to scale here,
1:16:28 and especially with AI coming to do
1:16:30 not a lot of the analysis as well,
1:16:32 it’s like there is a world where these get down to $500
1:16:36 or $700 and like, you know, a price point where hopefully
1:16:39 it can be something that’s just part of your annual physical
1:16:41 and it’s not that big a deal and insurance covers it, you know?
1:16:44 – Yeah, but we live in this reactive healthcare,
1:16:45 you know, health insurance system,
1:16:47 which is a little frustrating because it’s like,
1:16:49 you know, if we could prevent a lot of these things,
1:16:52 then the cost of care would go way down in the future.
1:16:53 I, we’re not gonna have an episode
1:16:55 about changing health insurance.
1:16:58 I did a whole episode on picking a plan
1:17:01 and what’s crazy about policies is actually,
1:17:04 they know that people are so scared to take care of themselves
1:17:05 that I was looking at two plans.
1:17:07 The best plan for me, cheapest plan,
1:17:10 if I wanted to spend all the money in that you’d think,
1:17:12 if I wanted to spend a lot on health care
1:17:13 would be the platinum plan.
1:17:15 The cheapest plan was the bronze plan.
1:17:18 The cheapest plan was actually like all in,
1:17:20 even if I met all the deductibles cheaper,
1:17:22 because they know that people on that plan
1:17:23 aren’t actually gonna pay out of pocket
1:17:24 to get those services.
1:17:26 So if you know that going to see a doctor
1:17:27 is gonna cost you $500,
1:17:28 most people aren’t gonna do it.
1:17:30 The challenge is I might not do it.
1:17:33 Like I like being able to see a doctor for $35
1:17:34 because I’ll do it.
1:17:36 If I knew I had to pay $500 to see a doctor,
1:17:37 I don’t know if I would.
1:17:40 And so I literally pay a premium
1:17:43 to fight a psychological problem that I have.
1:17:45 But one day, hopefully they’ll start covering
1:17:47 these preventative things
1:17:49 and the preventative things will get cheaper.
1:17:52 – I wanna chat a bit about a couple other life hacks
1:17:53 before we let you go.
1:17:55 One of the things that,
1:17:56 it may not be applicable to everyone,
1:17:59 but we can touch on it quickly is the,
1:18:03 you’re going through a property tax hack right now.
1:18:04 Can you tell people about that,
1:18:07 especially right now with interest rates being so high,
1:18:10 it’s a shitty time to obviously buy a house
1:18:12 and people are spending a lot of money
1:18:15 or they’re locked into an existing house.
1:18:17 And property taxes are this constant,
1:18:21 like just like suck of cash and capital every year.
1:18:24 What did you discover on this front
1:18:25 that I thought was really interesting?
1:18:28 – Yeah, so, I love figuring out ways to save money.
1:18:29 It’s great.
1:18:31 Downside of high interest rates,
1:18:34 if you get a house right now, your mortgage is expensive.
1:18:36 Because that mortgage is expensive,
1:18:39 we both looked to buy the same house we own now
1:18:42 at a higher interest rate could cost,
1:18:43 depending on how low the interest rate,
1:18:45 when you got it, could be almost double.
1:18:49 So like, if you were thinking I wanna buy a $800,000 house,
1:18:51 now the interest rates might be two, three, four times
1:18:52 what they were when you looked,
1:18:56 maybe you can only afford a $450,000 house.
1:18:59 That reduces demand, brings down prices,
1:19:01 which I guess is good if you can afford it.
1:19:04 But when interest rates change,
1:19:05 the nice thing about a mortgage is you can refinance.
1:19:07 So I would say it’s not,
1:19:11 it might in the long run be a better time to buy now.
1:19:13 I also don’t think we should expect interest rates
1:19:15 to go to 2.5% for mortgages for a really long time.
1:19:17 So we’re gonna, eventually you’ll have to accept
1:19:21 a new normal, but your property tax
1:19:23 in certain states is determined in different ways.
1:19:26 In California, the amount you pay for your house.
1:19:30 In some states, it’s based on what an assessor thinks.
1:19:31 And in some states, it changes every year.
1:19:34 And in some states, it’s locked in and just adjusts
1:19:37 for kind of some growth rate or inflation rate.
1:19:39 You could appeal that.
1:19:40 And most people don’t know this.
1:19:43 So right now, I was looking at houses
1:19:45 selling on our neighborhood and I was like,
1:19:47 if you look at the price per square foot of houses
1:19:49 that are like the house we bought three years ago,
1:19:50 it’s lower.
1:19:53 And if you convert the average price per square foot
1:19:54 of houses built around the same year,
1:19:57 our house was built about the same size,
1:19:59 you adjust for square footage,
1:20:03 our house should probably be like 25% less today.
1:20:07 Now, there are probably a few comps that I could pick
1:20:09 that wouldn’t be as great examples
1:20:11 of a drop in property value.
1:20:12 So…
1:20:13 – You left those out.
1:20:14 – Yeah, I left those out.
1:20:17 I picked, well, I tried to pick three fair,
1:20:22 but good examples and I think the assessed value
1:20:24 of my home should be about 20% less than today.
1:20:25 – What does that save you like net net?
1:20:26 Like what?
1:20:28 – Well, if you just take a house,
1:20:30 let’s say a house cost is worth a million dollars
1:20:32 on the property tax registrar.
1:20:33 Property tax, I don’t know.
1:20:35 It’s very dependent on where you live,
1:20:37 but let’s say like 1.2%,
1:20:39 you’ll pay 12 grand in property tax.
1:20:42 You reduce that by 25%.
1:20:44 You’re gonna save somewhere on the order
1:20:46 of $3,000 a year.
1:20:47 That’s not nothing.
1:20:48 – It’s not nothing.
1:20:49 – You have a $5 million house.
1:20:51 It’s even, you know, you’re gonna save $15,000 a year.
1:20:52 – Yeah.
1:20:55 – So, and I think it scales with the price of your house,
1:20:57 which probably scales with the impact
1:20:59 of $1,000 on your life.
1:21:02 So, I was looking into this and it all started
1:21:04 ’cause I got this letter from a company called Protax,
1:21:05 which I’d never even heard of.
1:21:06 It was like, hey, we wanna file this thing
1:21:08 to say your house is worth less.
1:21:09 And I was like, who are you?
1:21:10 How does this work?
1:21:11 And they were like, well, we’re gonna file this.
1:21:13 We’re gonna take 35% of what we save you.
1:21:15 And I was like, okay, but you gave me the form I can send.
1:21:16 And can I just do this myself?
1:21:18 Like, why do I need you to do it?
1:21:21 It turns out you file a form and then in California,
1:21:24 they schedule a hearing and between the hearing date,
1:21:28 you can negotiate with the assessment appeals person,
1:21:30 the assessor, and if you can come to an agreement,
1:21:32 great, if not, you go to a hearing.
1:21:33 I’m hoping I can come to an agreement
1:21:34 ’cause I don’t really wanna go to a hearing
1:21:35 and prepare all this.
1:21:36 But these companies will go to–
1:21:38 – I wanna see you go to an hearing.
1:21:40 – I kinda, like, I kind of want to–
1:21:42 – ‘Cause they give you the recordings of those too,
1:21:43 right?
1:21:43 – They might even be live streamed.
1:21:46 You know, like it’s like a local cease ban is like,
1:21:48 here’s Chris at his hearing.
1:21:49 But I was searching around
1:21:51 and I found this company called Onwell.
1:21:53 And they’re basically like a better modern version
1:21:56 of ProTax, and you type in your address on their website,
1:21:59 onwell.com, and you just search and they’ll say,
1:22:00 here’s what we think your house is worth,
1:22:01 what did you pay for it?
1:22:03 They can actually see in the property tax register,
1:22:04 what it costs, and they’ll be like,
1:22:06 we think we can save you money.
1:22:07 We’ll just do it all for you,
1:22:10 and we’ll take 25% of what we save you this year.
1:22:12 – And so they don’t get in perpetuity.
1:22:13 – They don’t get in perpetuity.
1:22:16 So if they do that, let’s just say it does go to court,
1:22:17 are they sending someone?
1:22:18 – They’re gonna go to the hearing.
1:22:19 – You don’t have to go?
1:22:20 – No.
1:22:20 – Oh, that’s amazing.
1:22:22 – And so if they were gonna save you $3,000,
1:22:24 they would take $750.
1:22:26 In California, where your property tax kind of,
1:22:29 because of Prop 13, just adjust not every year
1:22:31 at a market rate, but at inflation,
1:22:32 you’re gonna lock that in for a long time.
1:22:35 In Texas, they adjust it every single year.
1:22:36 So you might have to go through this process
1:22:39 every single year, and it could be frustrating.
1:22:40 – Yeah, but it’s gonna be a fixed amount
1:22:41 in Texas upgrade, right?
1:22:42 Like they’re not gonna like readjust it back
1:22:45 at its old amount, or do they just do a percentage?
1:22:46 – Texas is really interesting,
1:22:48 ’cause a lot of the comps aren’t public,
1:22:50 so you actually, as the owner, might have more,
1:22:52 and you have an information advantage,
1:22:54 whereas in California, everyone has the information,
1:22:56 and they have to prove that your information is wrong,
1:22:58 and they don’t have access to necessarily
1:22:58 all the information.
1:23:01 So there’s a world where Texas has some advantages,
1:23:03 the downside being you have to do this every year.
1:23:05 But there are a lot of states where you can fight this.
1:23:06 I reached out to the founder, and I was like,
1:23:08 hey, one, tell me about this industry,
1:23:09 ’cause I’m curious.
1:23:12 Two, like, help me understand this process.
1:23:16 And three, let’s get a deal for everyone that’s a listener.
1:23:18 And so, he was like, why don’t we do this?
1:23:21 Why don’t you go through this process so you can feel it?
1:23:22 And–
1:23:23 – You mean go through it on your own.
1:23:23 – On your own.
1:23:25 Do the comps, fill out the paperwork,
1:23:28 negotiate with the assessor, go to the hearing,
1:23:29 but we’ll be a resource.
1:23:31 If you have some questions, I’m happy to help you.
1:23:32 I go through this process,
1:23:34 I’m like, everyone should just hire a company to do this.
1:23:36 Like, do you really, it’s fun,
1:23:38 but it’s also fun to just look at the process
1:23:39 they went through.
1:23:40 – Yeah.
1:23:41 – The models, build the regression analysis.
1:23:42 – It’s just how much is your time worth, right?
1:23:43 – Yes.
1:23:44 – Because you’re gonna be spending,
1:23:46 you get them 25% and it’s like–
1:23:47 – For one year.
1:23:48 – For one year.
1:23:48 – You get it forever.
1:23:49 – Right.
1:23:51 – So, I’m glad because I like to be able to talk
1:23:53 about how this stuff works, that I went through it.
1:23:55 But keep in mind, that’s my job.
1:23:56 Like, my job is to create content
1:23:58 about optimizing your life.
1:24:00 So, in a way, going through the process was work.
1:24:02 For almost every person listening,
1:24:03 going through that process will not be their job.
1:24:04 – Yeah.
1:24:07 – And so, I would highly recommend,
1:24:08 I haven’t used the service,
1:24:10 but I would highly recommend looking at outsourcing this
1:24:12 instead of doing it yourself.
1:24:14 And so, we’ll see, we’re not gonna get
1:24:16 through all the agenda topics we have today.
1:24:17 If I come back, I’ll tell you how it goes
1:24:20 after I get through these negotiations.
1:24:22 But I’ve just found that there are a handful
1:24:25 of services out there where trying to do it yourself
1:24:26 isn’t worth the time.
1:24:27 – Yeah.
1:24:28 – And there are these companies
1:24:29 that will just do this thing.
1:24:31 And when they’re companies, it’ll do it.
1:24:34 As a frugal person, it’s hard for me to pay someone
1:24:36 to do a thing I can do.
1:24:38 But I think as I’ve learned what I call the skill
1:24:42 of spending, it’s like, don’t not optimize.
1:24:43 Optimize on something bigger.
1:24:46 So, instead of optimizing on saving 25%
1:24:48 of one year’s property tax savings,
1:24:51 why don’t I optimize on building my business 20%
1:24:52 revenue growth? – Right.
1:24:54 – Why don’t I optimize on, you know,
1:24:55 having a better family life?
1:24:58 Like there are millions in my health, like this year.
1:25:00 So, I’ve tried to stop optimizing
1:25:03 for the best delivery grocery site
1:25:06 for each individual shopping order that I have.
1:25:09 Who has the cheaper oatmeal or blueberries or something
1:25:11 and start optimizing on bigger, better,
1:25:13 more impactful things on my life.
1:25:14 And this is one.
1:25:15 – That’s awesome.
1:25:18 Anything else you’d like to cover while we got you here?
1:25:21 – I mean, one other example where I went through
1:25:23 this completely long and ridiculous process.
1:25:25 I’m gonna pull two things that we talked about together.
1:25:26 One is AI.
1:25:29 And in what I think it might,
1:25:30 the impact it might have on us,
1:25:32 and maybe especially our parents,
1:25:35 when it comes to privacy and cybersecurity and fraud
1:25:38 and all that, and a manual process.
1:25:39 So, anytime you go online,
1:25:41 we’ve probably put our address on the internet
1:25:43 thousands of times.
1:25:44 And there are companies like Amazon,
1:25:46 who I’m pretty sure are gonna go sell my address.
1:25:47 And then there are a lot of companies
1:25:50 that I’m 100% sure have sold my address.
1:25:52 And there’s all these data broker websites
1:25:52 that put it out there.
1:25:55 And so, it’s pretty crazy if you search your name
1:25:58 or your parents’ name and then put your street address.
1:26:00 Like if you live 123 Main Street,
1:26:04 search last name, quote, 123 Main, and quote,
1:26:06 you’re like, wow, my address is out there.
1:26:07 You can go search for your phone number.
1:26:09 Oh, my phone number’s out there.
1:26:10 And then think, okay,
1:26:12 there’s all these data breaches from Equifax.
1:26:14 Somebody probably get my social security number.
1:26:17 Like, I think it’s almost impossible
1:26:19 to prevent your information from being found.
1:26:21 But it’s very possible to make yourselves
1:26:22 not an easy target.
1:26:23 I feel pretty good.
1:26:25 You know, when I get the phishing emails,
1:26:27 when I get the texts that are like,
1:26:29 oh, can you, someone’s sending a wire,
1:26:30 can you call to us to approve?
1:26:31 I’m pretty good about that.
1:26:33 I’m not sure that my parents,
1:26:34 especially as they age,
1:26:36 especially as AI could probably voice generate,
1:26:38 especially with a podcast,
1:26:40 probably listen to my episodes, voice generate my voice,
1:26:42 call them in my voice and ask them this stuff.
1:26:45 So I’ve really started to think what are all the ways
1:26:47 that people could get more aggressive
1:26:50 about protecting their and their family’s information?
1:26:52 So one of them is these data brokers.
1:26:54 And so, I was asking around,
1:26:55 who’s the best company to use
1:26:58 to get your information removed online?
1:27:00 And there are a lot of companies that do this.
1:27:02 I went with Delete Me.
1:27:05 They became a partner of the show after I used them.
1:27:06 They actually have a list.
1:27:07 Here’s how to do it.
1:27:08 They give you a DIY opt-out guide.
1:27:10 You want to do this yourself, you can.
1:27:11 So I started going through this process myself
1:27:13 and there’s like 100 data brokers.
1:27:15 And you go to the website, you find your listing,
1:27:17 you fill it out, you ask them to remove it,
1:27:18 you follow up if they don’t.
1:27:21 And I’m like 20 hours into this process,
1:27:22 maybe 10 hours in,
1:27:24 and I haven’t even made it through the list.
1:27:25 And I’m like, this is insane.
1:27:28 They charge a couple hundred bucks a year,
1:27:30 even less as you start adding your family.
1:27:31 This is crazy.
1:27:32 I signed up.
1:27:33 They got it all removed.
1:27:34 I reached out to them.
1:27:35 I was like, can we work together?
1:27:36 Like this product’s awesome.
1:27:37 – And then it’s called Delete Me?
1:27:39 – Delete Me. – Okay.
1:27:41 – We’ve got a deal on that same deals page
1:27:42 on the All the Hacks site.
1:27:44 And it’s been great.
1:27:46 Like I signed up for Christmas.
1:27:48 I was like, I got all four of our parents
1:27:49 are now on Delete Me.
1:27:50 All their information’s removed.
1:27:51 – Yeah.
1:27:54 – I just could imagine a world where one of my parents
1:27:55 or Amy’s parents gets a phone call that’s like,
1:27:59 hey, your daughter X is in the hospital.
1:28:01 She was injured.
1:28:02 She’s not coherent,
1:28:04 but we can’t run her insurance to be able to operate
1:28:07 until you can give us her driver’s license number
1:28:08 or her social security number.
1:28:10 And it’s like, of course they’re gonna fall for that.
1:28:12 But what if I could just make sure
1:28:13 that that information’s not there?
1:28:15 Your siblings, your address, your phone number,
1:28:17 your email, all that stuff, remove it.
1:28:20 And then I went through, what else did I do?
1:28:21 You know, we talked about homes.
1:28:24 When you go to buy homes, the MLS websites,
1:28:27 like Zillow and Redfin, they’ll have pictures of your homes.
1:28:29 And even if you’ve sold your home
1:28:30 or bought your home years ago,
1:28:31 a lot of them are still up there.
1:28:34 For some reason, realtor.com seems to keep the pictures up
1:28:35 the longest, some sites.
1:28:36 – Can you request to have those removed?
1:28:38 – So you can request to have them removed.
1:28:39 And in fact, I recommend everyone,
1:28:41 when you’re buying a house, put a contingency
1:28:43 just so you don’t have to fight about it later,
1:28:46 that everyone removes everything.
1:28:48 So like the website that your realtor,
1:28:50 whoever sold the house to you had,
1:28:53 they probably put up 123mainestreet.com
1:28:56 and there’s a website with the floor plans of your house,
1:28:59 with all the pictures inside your house,
1:29:01 with all of this information about the house.
1:29:03 Do I feel like I’m such a target
1:29:05 that someone’s sitting in their basement,
1:29:07 mapping out the floor plan inside my house
1:29:09 and planning which windows my kids,
1:29:13 no, I’m not building bunkers and being that paranoid?
1:29:14 But it just seems like,
1:29:15 why not remove all the pictures
1:29:17 of the inside of your house off the internet?
1:29:18 – Right, right, right.
1:29:19 – It doesn’t seem like there’s upside.
1:29:22 – So do you have to go directly to a Redfin or a realtor?
1:29:23 – Is there a place on the website?
1:29:24 – So I went to the realtor’s and said,
1:29:25 can you pull it from the MLS?
1:29:28 And that took care about 90% of it.
1:29:30 The last 10% I had to reach out to a couple of those.
1:29:32 But DeleteMe has these customer requests.
1:29:34 So if you find information of yours somewhere,
1:29:35 they’ll just do these.
1:29:36 So I went to DeleteMe, I was like,
1:29:39 can you just go rent.com or apartments.com?
1:29:42 Just have this, like I, it wasn’t getting removed.
1:29:43 I was like, can you just go get this removed?
1:29:44 – Do they do it?
1:29:46 – Yeah, yeah, and they’ll go do these customer requests
1:29:47 and submit them on your behalf.
1:29:49 Like when you sign up for any of these services,
1:29:51 you’re effectively giving them like a limited power
1:29:53 of attorney to act on your behalf
1:29:54 to go get this stuff removed.
1:29:56 And so that was one.
1:29:57 – The other thing I was gonna tell you,
1:29:58 you may not know about this,
1:30:01 but when you pay for Google One, do you know Google One?
1:30:03 It’s like where you pay for their extra hard drive space
1:30:04 and all that.
1:30:06 There is an option in the security settings
1:30:08 for dark web monitoring.
1:30:09 And you can put in your phone number,
1:30:11 your address and all of that.
1:30:13 And they will go out, they hash it
1:30:14 so they don’t actually keep it,
1:30:17 but then they compare it to all the other hashed stuff
1:30:18 in the database.
1:30:20 And they’ve shown me exactly which sites
1:30:22 were compromised and when they had my phone number,
1:30:24 my address and so on.
1:30:26 So you can see if anything is out there.
1:30:27 – Yeah.
1:30:29 – And you can see exactly what was compromised
1:30:30 to get your data out there.
1:30:32 So even though it’s deleted from some of these sites,
1:30:34 there’s still dark web databases out there
1:30:36 that have your information on them.
1:30:41 – You’re not, I mean, I know people who have a PO box
1:30:43 and they don’t send any mail to their house.
1:30:44 They send it all to a PO box
1:30:46 ’cause they just don’t want their address out there.
1:30:47 But I’m like, you know, that’s kind of a hassle.
1:30:49 You can send the Amazon packages.
1:30:51 They’re people who have, you know,
1:30:52 we probably know some of them
1:30:53 that buy another house in their neighborhood
1:30:55 to have their DoorDash delivered to
1:30:56 so that no one finds their address.
1:30:58 Or they just create their DoorDash account
1:30:59 with a different name.
1:31:02 There’s a degree to how much you want to inconvenience
1:31:03 your life for privacy and security.
1:31:06 But I think personally, there’s a degree to which
1:31:08 it’s not that hard.
1:31:10 You can remove a lot of search results on Google.
1:31:12 If you find a search result that’s revealing information
1:31:14 you don’t want, you can ask Google to unlist it
1:31:16 if it’s your personal information.
1:31:18 Google has like advanced security protection
1:31:20 or whatever that thing is where you can add more security.
1:31:21 – I’ve done that, yeah.
1:31:23 – I’ve talked to all the banks and services I use
1:31:25 and I’ve been like, can I change the way?
1:31:27 Like, can you upgrade my security?
1:31:29 Can you, can I replace my mother’s maiden name
1:31:31 with an arbitrary password so that,
1:31:32 because my mother’s maiden name
1:31:33 is probably pretty easily finding?
1:31:34 – Yeah, yeah.
1:31:34 – Like you could take these steps
1:31:37 to just prevent yourself from bringing it to life.
1:31:40 You can get a second SIM card for $5 a month
1:31:42 and have that be your two-factor code
1:31:43 instead of your primary code.
1:31:44 – That’s what I do, yeah.
1:31:46 – So I just think you could blur your house on Google Maps.
1:31:49 Like, you could request it, although you can’t undo it.
1:31:52 So, you know, that’s an option.
1:31:53 There’s a lot of stuff you could do.
1:31:55 The one that keeps getting missed,
1:31:56 and I’m not gonna out who this was,
1:31:58 but I was walking down the street in our neighborhood
1:32:00 and there was some security cars in front of a house.
1:32:01 And I was like, oh.
1:32:01 – Security cars are being like.
1:32:04 – Like a private security where there’s two people,
1:32:06 24/7 in the car, looking at this house.
1:32:07 And it’s a bit unusual,
1:32:10 like our neighborhood is not one where you would expect that.
1:32:12 – But you’re in Silicon Valley, so you never know.
1:32:14 – Yeah, but you know, I was like, who is this person?
1:32:16 And I was like, I wanna know.
1:32:18 And obviously, if they’re gonna spend money
1:32:20 to hire private security, they’re gonna do all the stuff.
1:32:22 They did the data broker stuff, they hired these things.
1:32:24 But the one place that a lot of people don’t look,
1:32:26 which has a dual benefit,
1:32:29 like you can both protect yourself and make money,
1:32:31 is the state unclaimed money database.
1:32:34 And what happens is, you know, anytime there’s money owed
1:32:36 to you, after a certain period of time,
1:32:38 that money gets passed over to the state to handle.
1:32:40 So, you know, for example,
1:32:43 once I had a Delta $50 gift card that we just didn’t use
1:32:44 in a long enough period of time
1:32:46 that they transferred over the state.
1:32:49 Well, Delta transferred over my name and address
1:32:51 to the state so that I could go look in this database.
1:32:55 So, anyone who knew my name and the city I lived in
1:32:58 didn’t even need my address, who’d just search.
1:33:00 Or anyone could search by address.
1:33:02 So, you could go search the address,
1:33:04 which I did, of this house in my neighborhood.
1:33:06 And there were five names.
1:33:09 And so, five people had lived at that address
1:33:10 who had unclaimed money.
1:33:11 I mean, this is great.
1:33:13 How many people haven’t gone through this process?
1:33:15 And it was like a $20 thing.
1:33:17 So, I totally get it.
1:33:18 I looked up the five names.
1:33:20 Four of them had very few results on the internet,
1:33:22 and then one of them was like a CEO of a tech company.
1:33:25 I was like, “Hmm, I wonder which one this person is.”
1:33:28 And I reached out through a mutual friend to this person
1:33:29 and was like, “Hey, just so you know,
1:33:32 “you’ve got a security hole, you should clear it up.”
1:33:33 And a lot of times people look at this and they’re like,
1:33:36 “Well, I’m owed $5 from PG&E for like a house
1:33:38 “I haven’t lived in in 10 years.”
1:33:39 They’d got forwarded to my new address.
1:33:41 Is it really worth the hassle of filling out this form
1:33:43 and then sometimes get it notarized
1:33:44 to get my $5 back?
1:33:45 No.
1:33:47 So if you claim it, does it get removed from the database?
1:33:48 Yeah, it gets removed from the database.
1:33:49 Oh, then you gotta do it.
1:33:50 But sometimes when you don’t think about it
1:33:52 from a privacy standpoint, you’re like,
1:33:54 “Is it worth my time to go get a notarized document
1:33:55 “for $5?”
1:33:59 No, I’ve had listeners $5, $2500 to $3,000.
1:34:00 So like one, you should just check
1:34:02 ’cause you might hit the jackpot.
1:34:03 What do people Google for?
1:34:03 ‘Cause every state’s different, right?
1:34:04 Unclaimed money.
1:34:05 Unclaimed money, Texas.
1:34:07 Unclaimed money, California.
1:34:07 Unclaimed money.
1:34:08 Okay, and that’ll take you to the government.
1:34:09 The state database.
1:34:10 So you don’t want to go to some third-party website.
1:34:11 It goes directly to the state.
1:34:14 All the state databases are easy to find.
1:34:15 My party trick is any time we’re going
1:34:17 to someone’s house for an event,
1:34:18 I’ll just search if they’re owed money.
1:34:19 And I’ll be like, “Come to dinner.”
1:34:21 I’ll be like, “I don’t really do this.”
1:34:22 But like, “I didn’t bring a bottle of wine,
1:34:25 “but I found that the state owes you $180.”
1:34:26 That’s not creepy at all.
1:34:27 No, no, no.
1:34:28 I love that.
1:34:29 But you can find, check your parents,
1:34:31 check your cousins, check your siblings.
1:34:33 And you’d be surprised that I bet
1:34:35 at least someone in your immediate family
1:34:39 has like $100 plus owed to them
1:34:40 that they forgot about, didn’t know about,
1:34:41 and can collect.
1:34:42 And so it was a pain in the ass
1:34:44 ’cause I was owed less than $5,
1:34:46 and so I had to get a document notarized
1:34:49 to be able to claim my less than $5.
1:34:53 But now there’s not an easy place to search my name
1:34:55 and the state of California and find out where I live.
1:34:56 Yeah, amazing.
1:34:58 So that’s one.
1:34:59 I made a list of like 20 other things.
1:35:00 We’re not going to get to it today.
1:35:01 All right.
1:35:03 Well, we’ll have you back on the show.
1:35:05 Chris, this has been awesome.
1:35:07 You’re always bringing at least two or three things
1:35:08 where I’m just like,
1:35:09 “I’m going to go do this immediately
1:35:10 “after chatting with you.”
1:35:12 So I have my list.
1:35:16 Renegotiating my mortgage would be definitely high up there.
1:35:18 Where can people find more about you in your podcast?
1:35:21 Yeah, so allthehacks.com is the website.
1:35:23 That’s where you can find deals,
1:35:25 links to all the cards if you want to support us.
1:35:26 That would be awesome.
1:35:27 And then wherever you’re listening,
1:35:29 you got a podcast, all the hacks.
1:35:31 Every week, I’m going deep on something,
1:35:34 whether that’s insurance, cell phone plans,
1:35:35 all the kinds of stuff we talked about,
1:35:38 but just like 10 miles deeper.
1:35:38 You know all that stuff.
1:35:41 So check it out, scroll till you find something
1:35:43 you want to learn about and let me know what you think.
1:35:44 It’s a great show.
1:35:45 We’ll have you back on soon.
1:35:46 Thanks.
1:35:46 Sounds good.