Author: The Gray Area with Sean Illing

June 27, 2022

The Philosophers: Stoic revival
The Philosophers: Stoic revival

Sean Illing talks with author Ryan Holiday about Stoicism — a philosophy with roots in ancient Greece and which flourished in early imperial Rome — and how it can help us live fulfilling lives today. In addition to explaining what Stoicism is and how we can practice it, Holiday addresses the critical idea that Stoicism is a philosophy for elites, unpacks some of the parallels between Stoicism and Buddhism, and explains how being in touch with our mortality can relieve some of our modern anxieties.

This is the fourth episode of The Philosophers, a monthly series from Vox Conversations. Each episode will focus on a philosophical figure or school of thought from the past, and discuss how their ideas can help us make sense of our modern world and lives today. Check out the other episodes in this series, on Albert Camus, Hannah Arendt, and pragmatism with Cornel West.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews writer, Vox

Guest: Ryan Holiday (@RyanHoliday), author; creator of Daily Stoic

References to works by Stoics:
- Zeno of Citium (c. 334 – c. 262 BC) (about whom much is known from Diogenes Laërtius, c. 3rd c. AD, in Lives and Opinions of Eminent Philosophers, VII)
- Epictetus (c. 50 – c. 125 AD): The Encheiridion (or Handbook) of Epictetus; The Discourses of Epictetus
- Seneca (c. 4 BC – 65 AD): Dialogues and letters
- Marcus Aurelius (121 – 180 AD): Meditations (Penguin Classics ; MIT Internet Classics Archive)
Other references:
- The Daily Stoic podcast with Ryan Holiday
- Lives of the Stoics: The Art of Living from Zeno to Marcus Aurelius by Ryan Holiday and Stephen Hanselman (Portfolio; 2020)
- Courage Is Calling by Ryan Holiday (Portfolio; 2021)
- Courage Under Fire: Testing Epictetus’s Doctrines in a Laboratory of Human Behavior by James B. Stockdale (Hoover Institution Press; 1993)
- “Self-pity” by D.H. Lawrence
- The Stoic Life: Emotions, Duties, and Fate by Tad Brennan (Oxford; 2005)
- How to Be a Stoic by Massimo Pigliucci (Basic; 2017)
- Stoic Wisdom: Ancient Lessons for Modern Resilience by Nancy Sherman (Oxford; 2021)
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This episode was made by:
- Producer: Erikk Geannikis
- Editor: Amy Drozdowska
- Engineer: Patrick Boyd
- Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
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June 23, 2022

Station Eleven’s creator on the end of the world
Station Eleven’s creator on the end of the world

Vox’s Alex Abad-Santos sits down with Patrick Somerville, the creator and showrunner of HBO’s critically-acclaimed series Station Eleven, adapted from the novel by Emily St. John Mandel. They talk about the weirdness of making a show about a pandemic during a pandemic, what it was like to craft the show’s intricate web of storylines, and why Patrick’s body of work — which also includes Maniac, Made for Love, and co-writing The Leftovers — tends toward the dystopian. There’s also a reflective discussion about . . . hugs.

Host: Alex Abad-Santos (@alex_abads), Senior Culture Reporter, Vox

Guest: Patrick Somerville (@patrickerville), creator and showrunner, Station Eleven

References:
- Station Eleven, created for television by Patrick Somerville (HBO Max; 2021)
- Station Eleven, novel by Emily St. John Mandel (Knopf; 2014)
- “A syllabus for a new world” by Alissa Wilkinson (Vox; Jan. 13)
- “In Station Eleven, the end of the world is a vibrant, lush green” by Emily St. James (Vox; Jan. 10)
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This episode was made by:
- Producer: Erikk Geannikis
- Editor: Amy Drozdowska
- Engineer: Patrick Boyd
- Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
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June 16, 2022

The racist origins of fat phobia
The racist origins of fat phobia

Vox’s Anna North talks with Da’Shaun Harrison, the activist, author, and 2022 Lambda Literary Award recipient for their book Belly of the Beast: The Politics of Anti-Fatness as Anti-Blackness. Da’Shaun explains the ways in which society’s anti-fatness is structural, and connected —historically and politically — to the structures of anti-Blackness that took root alongside slavery in America. Anna and Da’Shaun discuss common misunderstandings and myths about fatness, how these pathologies insidiously infiltrate the criminal justice system, and why Da’Shaun envisions a liberatory future in the idea of destruction.

Host: Anna North (@annanorthtweets), Senior Reporter, Vox

Guest: Da’Shaun Harrison (@DaShaunLH), author; editor-at-large, Scalawag

References:
- Belly of the Beast: The Politics of Anti-Fatness as Anti-Blackness by Da’Shaun Harrison (North Atlantic; 2021)
- “The past, present, and future of body image in America” by Anna North (Vox; Oct. 18, 2021)
- “The paradox of online ‘body positivity’” by Rebecca Jennings (Vox; Jan. 13, 2021)
- Fearing the Black Body by Sabrina Strings (NYU; 2019)
- “CDC Study Overstated Obesity as a Cause of Death” by Betsy McKay (Wall Street Journal; Nov. 23, 2004)
- “Correction: Actual Causes of Death in the United States, 2000” (JAMA; Jan. 19, 2005)
- Killer Fat: Media, Medicine, and Morals in the American “Obesity Epidemic” by Natalie Boero (Rutgers; 2012)
- “The Bizarre and Racist History of the BMI” by Aubrey Gordon (Oct. 15, 2019)
- “Mama’s Baby, Papa’s Maybe: An American Grammar Book” by Hortense J. Spillers (Diacritics, 17 (2); 1987)
- Joy James: Captive Maternals
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This episode was made by:
- Producer: Erikk Geannikis
- Editor: Amy Drozdowska
- Engineer: Patrick Boyd
- Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
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June 13, 2022

The fight for Ukraine — and democracy
The fight for Ukraine — and democracy

Sean Illing talks with historian and author Timothy Snyder about the war in Ukraine, the stakes for Europe and the rest of the world, and the battle between Putin’s autocracy and democracy being waged. They also discuss the enduring importance of history — and of ideas — in shaping events in our world.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Timothy Snyder (@TimothyDSnyder), author; Levin professor of history, Yale University

References:
- “The War in Ukraine Has Unleashed a New Word” by Timothy Snyder (New York Times Magazine; Apr. 22)
- On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century by Timothy Snyder (Crown; 2017)
- The Road to Unfreedom: Russia, Europe, America by Timothy Snyder (Tim Duggan; 2018)
- Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin by Timothy Snyder (Basic; 2010)
- “Vladimir Putin’s politics of eternity” by Timothy Snyder (The Guardian; Mar. 16, 2018)
- Black Rights/White Wrongs: The Critique of Racial Liberalism by Charles W. Mills (Oxford; 2017)
- “Who is Putin really fighting? Maxim Trudolyubov on the Russian president’s ruthless war of generations” (Meduza; June 6)
Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

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This episode was made by:
- Producer: Erikk Geannikis
- Editor: Amy Drozdowska
- Engineer: Patrick Boyd
- Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
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June 9, 2022

The war on trans people
The war on trans people

Vox’s Emily St. James talks with Chase Strangio of the ACLU about the assault on the rights of trans Americans taking place in many states across the country. They explain why laws that recently passed through state houses in Florida, Texas, and Alabama imperil trans people — or, in some cases, even criminalize their very existence. Chase and Emily discuss the ongoing legal battles to challenge these laws, the political and social obstacles facing the trans community, and how all Americans can help protect trans people through challenging some fundamental assumptions in our culture.

Host: Emily St. James (@emilyvdw), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Chase Strangio (@chasestrangio), Deputy Director for Transgender Justice, ACLU

References:
- “The time to panic about anti-trans legislation is now” by Emily St. James (Vox; March 24)
- “Florida’s law limiting LGBTQ discussion in schools, explained” by Amber Phillips (Washington Post; April 22)
- “Alabama law criminalizing care for transgender youth faces federal test” by Kimberly Chandler (AP; May 5)
- “Explaining the Latest Texas Anti-Transgender Directive” by Alene Bouranova (BU Today; March 3)
- Obergefell v. Hodges (U.S. Supreme Court; 2015)
- Bostock v. Clayton County (U.S. Supreme Court; 2020)
- “The Courts Won’t Free Us — Only We Can” by Chase Strangio (Them; June 1)
- “Rising Model Hunter Schafer Is Fighting for the Future of Trans Individuals On and Off the Runway” by Katherine Cusumano (W Magazine; March 21, 2018)
- “HB 500 — Barring Transgender Girls in Sports” (ACLU Idaho; 2020)
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This episode was made by:
- Producer: Erikk Geannikis
- Editor: Amy Drozdowska
- Engineer: Patrick Boyd
- Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
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June 6, 2022

Michael Ian Black on being a better man
Michael Ian Black on being a better man

Sean Illing talks with comedian and author Michael Ian Black about his book A Better Man, in which Black writes a letter to his son about masculinity, vulnerability, and the importance of empathy, among other things. They open the conversation discussing the tragic mass murder that took place at an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas. Black was inspired to write this book in the wake of the 2018 school shooting in Parkland, Florida, and America’s mass shootings are a subject throughout his book. Sean and Michael talk about how to confront these events as fathers of boys, the myth of what it means to be a “real man,” and the elusive importance of deep, male friendship.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Michael Ian Black (@michaelianblack), comedian; author

References:
- A Better Man: A (Mostly Serious) Letter to My Son by Michael Ian Black (Workman; 2020 – paperback, 2022)
- “America’s troubled relationship with paid time off for dads” by Aimee Picchi (CBS News; Oct. 19, 2021)
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This episode was made by:
- Producer: Erikk Geannikis
- Editor: Amy Drozdowska
- Engineer: Patrick Boyd
- Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
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June 2, 2022

Carmen Maria Machado’s haunted feminine
Carmen Maria Machado’s haunted feminine

Vox’s Constance Grady talks with writer Carmen Maria Machado, whose 2017 short story collection Her Body and Other Parties was a National Book Award finalist. In this episode, which is a recording of a live Vox Book Club event, they discuss how this haunting genre-straddling collection conveys the underlying horrors of being an embodied woman, how the nation’s shifting cultural mores around sexual violence are reflected in Law & Order: SVU, and how Machado’s writing expresses what she just might start calling the “femme uncanny.”

Host: Constance Grady (@constancegrady), staff writer, Vox

Guests: Carmen Maria Machado, author

References:
- Her Body and Other Parties by Carmen Maria Machado (Graywolf; 2017)
- Stories of Your Life and Others by Ted Chiang (2002)
- Kelly Link
- “The Green Ribbon” by Alvin Schwartz, from In a Dark, Dark Room and Other Scary Stories (1984)
- “‘Law & Order’ is lost without Stabler and Benson. Here’s why their pairing works,” by Carmen Maria Machado (LA Times; Apr. 8, 2021)
- “The Trash Heap Has Spoken” by Carmen Maria Machado (Guernica; Feb. 13, 2017)
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This episode was made by:
- Producer: Erikk Geannikis
- Editor: Amy Drozdowska
- Engineer: Patrick Boyd
- Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
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May 26, 2022

The rise and fall of America’s monuments
The rise and fall of America’s monuments

Jamil Smith talks with Erin Thompson, professor of art crime and author of Smashing Statues: The Rise and Fall of America’s Public Monuments. They discuss why we honor horrible people from the past in metal and stone, what effects these objects have on our present, and what’s keeping so many of these monuments in place throughout America.

Host: Jamil Smith (@JamilSmith), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Erin Thompson (@artcrimeprof), author; associate professor of art crime, John Jay College of Criminal Justice

References:
- Smashing Statues: The Rise and Fall of America’s Public Monuments by Erin Thompson (Norton; 2022)
- A viral tweet (June 10, 2020)
- “What’s the point of beheading a statue?” by Erin Thompson (Art News; June 22, 2020)
- “The Historian Scrutinizing Our Idea of Monuments” by Alexandra Schwartz (New Yorker; March 3)
Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

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This episode was made by:
- Producer: Erikk Geannikis
- Editor: Amy Drozdowska
- Engineer: Patrick Boyd
- Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
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May 23, 2022

The Philosophers: America’s philosophy, with Cornel West
The Philosophers: America’s philosophy, with Cornel West

Sean Illing talks with Cornel West about the American philosophical tradition known as pragmatism. They talk about what makes pragmatism so distinctly American, how pragmatists understand the connection between knowledge and action, and how the pragmatist mindset can invigorate our understanding of democratic life and communal action today. Cornel West also talks about the ways in which pragmatism has influenced his work and life, alongside the blues, Chekhov, and his Christian faith.

This is the third episode of The Philosophers, a new monthly series from Vox Conversations. Each episode will focus on a philosophical figure or school of thought from the past, and discuss how their ideas can help us make sense of our modern world and lives today.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews writer, Vox

Guest: Cornel West (@CornelWest), author; Dietrich Bonhoeffer professor of philosophy & Christian practice, Union Theological Seminary

References to works by American pragmatists:
- Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803–1882): “Self-Reliance” (1841)
- William James (1842–1910): Pragmatism: A New Name for Some Old Ways of Thinking (1907); The Varieties of Religious Experience (1902); “Is Life Worth Living?” (1895)
- Charles Sanders Peirce (1839–1914): “The Fixation of Belief” (1877)
- John Dewey (1859–1952): The Quest for Certainty (1929); “Emerson—The Philosopher of Democracy” (1903); The Public and Its Problems (1927)
- Richard Rorty (1931–2007): “Pragmatism, Relativism, and Irrationalism” (1979); “Solidarity or Objectivity?” (1989)
Other references:
- Cornel West Teaches Philosophy (MasterClass)
- The American Evasion of Philosophy: A Genealogy of Pragmatism by Cornel West (Univ. of Wisconsin Press; 1989)
- The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald (1925)
- Plato, Republic (refs. in particular to Book 1 and Book 8)
- The Phantom Public by Walter Lippmann (1925)
- Leopardi: Selected Poems of Giacomo Leopardi (1798–1837), tr. by Eamon Grennan (Princeton; 1997)
- “The Myth of Sisyphus” by Albert Camus (1942; tr. 1955)
- Democracy & Tradition by Jeffrey Stout (Princeton; 2003)
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This episode was made by:
- Producer: Erikk Geannikis
- Editor: Amy Drozdowska
- Engineer: Patrick Boyd
- Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
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May 19, 2022

Why accidents aren’t accidental
Why accidents aren’t accidental

Vox’s Marin Cogan talks with author and journalist Jessie Singer, whose book There Are No Accidents asks us to completely rethink our understanding of accidents as seemingly random, blameless, harm-inducing events. Marin and Jessie discuss what drug overdoses, car crashes, and apartment building fires have in common, the systemic structural vulnerabilities that lead to accidents, and how we can press for greater accountability.

Host: Marin Cogan (@marincogan), Senior Features Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Jessie Singer (@JessieSingerNYC), author; journalist

References:
- There Are No Accidents: The Deadly Rise of Injury and Disaster—Who Profits and Who Pays the Price by Jessie Singer (Simon & Schuster; 2022)
- “Stop calling them ‘accidents’” by Marin Cogan (Vox; Apr. 12)
- “Nearly 43,000 people died on US roads last year, agency says” by Tom Krisher and Hope Yen (AP News; May 17)
- “NYC building space heater malfunction sparks fire that kills 19, including 9 children” by Maria Caspani (Reuters; Jan. 10)
- “Remembering Eric Ng” by Maura Roosevelt (The Nation; Feb. 7, 2014)
Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

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This episode was made by:
- Producer: Erikk Geannikis
- Editor: Amy Drozdowska
- Engineer: Patrick Boyd
- Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
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