Rethinking the “end of history”

Sean Illing talks with political scientist and author Francis Fukuyama, whose ideas about the “end of history” and the ideological supremacy of liberal democracy became well-known through his 1989 essay “The End of History?”. They discuss Fukuyama’s new book, Liberalism and Its Discontents, as well as some of the modern challenges facing liberalism today, what Fukuyama thinks of the radically redistributive politics of the Bernie Sanders campaign, and whether he thinks it’s still the case that liberal democracy stands victorious in the war of ideas.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Francis Fukuyama (@FukuyamaFrancis), author; professor, Stanford University

References: 

• Liberalism and Its Discontents by Francis Fukuyama (FSG; 2022)
• “The End of History?” by Francis Fukuyama (The National Interest, v. 16; Summer 1989)
• The End of History and the Last Man by Francis Fukuyama (Free Press; 1992)
• “Francis Fukuyama Predicted the End of History. It’s Back (Again),” by Jennifer Schuessler (New York Times; May 10)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Anita Hill finally gets even

Vox’s Fabiola Cineas talks with Anita Hill, whose testimony during the 1991 confirmation hearings for now-Justice Clarence Thomas highlighted the prominence of sexual harassment and unwanted sexual advances in the workplace. Hill discusses how those hearings changed her, whether or not she has respect for the Supreme Court as an institution, and how her fight to stop gender violence continues today.

Host: Fabiola Cineas (@FabiolaCineas), Reporter, Vox

Guest: Anita Hill (@AnitaHill), professor, Brandeis University

References: 

• Getting Even with Anita Hill (Pushkin)
• Believing: Our Thirty-Year Journey to End Gender Violence by Anita Hill (Viking; 2021)
• Strange Justice: The Selling of Clarence Thomas by Jane Mayer and Jill Abramson (1994)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Elites have captured identity politics

Sean Illing talks with Olúfẹ́mi Táíwò, whose new book Elite Capture is about how the wealthy and powerful co-opt political movements, and use the language of progressive activism to further their ends. They discuss the history and meaning of “identity politics,” the notion of “woke capitalism,” and how to arrive at a more constructive politics — one that actually engages directly in redistributing social resources and power, rather than achieving merely symbolic gains.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Olúfẹ́mi Táíwò (@OlufemiOTaiwo), author; professor of philosophy, Georgetown University

References: 

• Elite Capture: How the Powerful Took Over Identity Politics (And Everything Else) by Olúfẹ́mi O. Táíwò (Haymarket; 2022)
• “Identity Politics and Elite Capture” by Olúfẹ́mi O. Táíwò (Boston Review; May 7, 2020)
• “Niani S. Phillips is an Environmentalist with a serious commitment to sustainability.” (McDonald’s YouTube; Mar. 31)
• The Combahee River Collective Statement (1977)
• “Until Black Women Are Free, None of Us Will Be Free” by Keeanga-Yamahtta Taylor (New Yorker; July 20, 2020)
• “Black Lives Matter Secretly Bought a $6 Million House” by Sean Campbell (Intelligencer; Apr. 4)
• Why I Am Not A Feminist: A Feminist Manifesto by Jessa Crispin (Melville House; 2017)
• “What’s New About Woke Racial Capitalism (And What Isn’t)” by Enzo Rossi and Olúfẹ́mi O. Táíwò (Spectre; Dec. 18, 2020)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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The moral dangers of dirty work

Vox’s Jamil Smith talks with journalist and author Eyal Press about “dirty work” — the jobs Americans do that, as Press explains, can lead workers to perform morally compromising activities unwittingly. They discuss examples of this kind of work (drone pilots, meat packers, prison aides), talk about its relation to the term “essential workers” that gained prominence during the pandemic, and explain how certain jobs highlight the disparities of class, race, and gender in American society.

Host: Jamil Smith (@JamilSmith), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Eyal Press (@EyalPress), author; journalist

References: 

• Dirty Work: Essential Jobs and the Hidden Toll of Inequality in America by Eyal Press (FSG; 2021)
• “What does it mean to take America’s ‘jobs of last resort’?” by Jamil Smith (Vox; Apr. 22)
• Empire of Pain: The Secret History of the Sackler Dynasty by Patrick Radden Keefe (Doubleday; 2021)
• The Social Network, dir. David Fincher (2010)
• The Jungle by Upton Sinclair (1906)
• The Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison (1952)
• The Civilizing Process by Norbert Elias (1939)
• “Good People and Dirty Work” by Everett C. Hughes (Social Problems, vol. 10 (1); 1962)
• The Line Becomes a River by Francisco Cantú (Riverhead; 2019)
• “Inside the Massive Jail that Doubles as Chicago’s Largest Mental Health Facility” by Lili Holzer-Glier (Vera Institute of Justice; 2016)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Did the sexual revolution go wrong?

Sean Illing talks with author and Washington Post columnist Christine Emba about whether or not we need to rethink sex. They discuss why, according to the research and reporting in Emba’s new book Rethinking Sex, many Americans are unhappy with the sex they’re having, and don’t fully understand what they want. They also talk about how her Catholic faith informs her views on sex, why it’s necessary to expand on the framework of “consent,” and what kind of sexual culture Emba hopes to see in the world.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Christine Emba (@ChristineEmba), author & reporter

References: 

• Rethinking Sex: A Provocation by Christine Emba (Sentinel; 2022)
• “Consent is not enough. We need a new sexual ethic,” by Christine Emba (Washington Post; Mar. 17)
• “People Have Been Having Less Sex—whether They’re Teenagers or 40-Somethings” by Emily Willingham (Scientific American; Jan. 3)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Who decides how to conserve nature?

Vox’s Benji Jones talks with Indigenous leader Kimaren ole Riamit about the role of Indigenous peoples in the conservation movement. Bringing the perspective of his upbringing in the Kenyan Maasai pastoral community as well as advanced degrees earned at Western institutions, Kimaren discusses with Benji the power and potential of Indigenous knowledge in combating the climate crisis, and the challenges in bridging that knowledge with the global conservation effort.

Host: Benji Jones (@BenjiSJones), Environmental reporter, Vox

Guest: Kimaren ole Riamit, Maasai leader

References: 

• “Growing up Maasai and the art of healing the Earth” by Benji Jones (Vox; Mar. 16)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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The War in Ukraine, Explained — Part 4: The future of Europe

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is one of the biggest and most confusing political events of our lifetimes. We aim to bring some clarity in this special four-part series from Vox Conversations and host Zack Beauchamp, The War in Ukraine, Explained.

In part four, Zack speaks with author, political scientist, and scholar of European politics Ivan Krastev. They discuss the reverberations of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine across Europe, from a sudden change of course in Germany and elections in France to the threatened intellectual foundations of the European Union nations’ shared postwar identity, and how the war in Ukraine will shape the EU’s future relations with the U.S. and China — and the future of Europe itself.

Host: Zack Beauchamp (@zackbeauchamp), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Ivan Krastev, political scientist; chairman, Centre for Liberal Strategies; permanent fellow, Institute for Human Sciences, IWM Vienna

References: 

• The Light That Failed: Why the West is Losing the Fight for Democracy by Stephen Holmes and Ivan Krastev (Pegasus; 2020)
• “We Are All Living in Vladimir Putin’s World Now” by Ivan Krastev (New York Times; Feb. 27)
• “How the Weak Win Wars: A Theory of Asymmetric Conflict” by Ivan Arreguín-Toft (International Security, vol. 26 (1); 2001)
• Postwar: A History of Europe Since 1945 by Tony Judt (Penguin; 2006)
• The Idea of India by Sunil Khilnani (FSG; 1997)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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Michael Lewis on why Americans distrust experts

Sean Illing talks with writer Michael Lewis about why it is that Americans are so good at producing knowledge, but so bad at identifying and utilizing that knowledge — the central issue of the new season of his podcast “Against the Rules.” They discuss who counts as an expert, some fundamental impediments to disseminating knowledge, and whether or not there is a possible future where Americans regain their trust in experts, institutions, and each other.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Michael Lewis, author

References: 

• Against the Rules with Michael Lewis podcast (Pushkin)
• The Premonition: A Pandemic Story by Michael Lewis (W.W. Norton; 2021 – paperback; 2022)
• The Fifth Risk by Michael Lewis (W.W. Norton; 2018)
• The Revolt of the Public and the Crisis of Authority in the New Millennium by Martin Gurri (Stripe; 2014)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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The War in Ukraine, Explained — Part 3: The nuclear threat

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is one of the biggest and most confusing political events of our lifetimes. We aim to bring some clarity in this special four-part series from Vox Conversations and host Zack Beauchamp, The War in Ukraine, Explained.

In part three, Zack speaks with professor, blogger, and nuclear arms expert Jeff Lewis about the looming nuclear threat of the conflict in Ukraine. They discuss the probability of escalation by both Russia and the U.S., what “tactical” nuclear weapons really are and how they’re misunderstood, the double-edged sword of deterrence, and some of the ethical, political, and psychological realities of managing large stockpiles of devastating nuclear weapons.

Host: Zack Beauchamp (@zackbeauchamp), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Jeff Lewis (@ArmsControlWonk), founder and contributor, Arms Control Wonk; director, East Asia Nonproliferation Program, Middlebury Institute of International Studies at Monterey

References: 

• “Is Russia committing genocide in Ukraine?” by Zack Beauchamp (Vox; Apr. 13)

Enjoyed this episode? Rate Vox Conversations ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Subscribe for free. Be the first to hear the next episode of Vox Conversations by subscribing in your favorite podcast app.

Support Vox Conversations by making a financial contribution to Vox! bit.ly/givepodcasts

This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Editor: Amy Drozdowska
• Engineer: Paul Robert Mounsey
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall

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