Seeing ourselves through the darkness

When we find ourselves in a dark place, what if we didn’t “lighten things up”? Sean Illing talks with philosopher Mariana Alessandri, whose new book Night Vision offers a new way of understanding our dark moods and experiences like depression, pain, and grief. Alessandri describes the deep influence of what she calls the “light metaphor” — the belief that light is good and darkness is bad — and the destructive emotional cycles it has produced. They discuss the influence of Stoic philosophy, Aristotelian ethics, and contemporary self-help — and explore what new paradigms for emotional intelligence might entail. This episode was originally published on June 29th.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Mariana Alessandri (@mariana.alessandri), professor of philosophy, University of Texas Rio Grande Valley; author

References: 

• Night Vision: Seeing Ourselves through Dark Moods by Mariana Alessandri (Princeton; 2023)
• Plato’s “allegory of the cave” from the Republic, VI (514a–520a)
• The Power of Positive Thinking by Norman Vincent Peale (1952)
• The Encheiridion (or “Handbook”) of Epictetus (c. 50 – c. 125 AD)
• The Dialogues and letters of Seneca (c. 4 BC – 65 AD)
• The Meditations of Marcus Aurelius (121 – 180 AD)
• The Tusculan Disputations of Cicero (106 – 43 BC)
• Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics
• It’s OK That You’re Not OK by Megan Devine (Sounds True; 2017)
• Our Lord Don Quixote by Miguel de Unamuno (1914; tr. 1968)
• Borderlands/La Frontera: The New Mestiza by Gloria Anzaldúa (Aunt Lute; 1987)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Erikk Geannikis
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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Living Mindfully

Jon Kabat-Zinn helped kick off the American mindfulness movement with his bestselling book Wherever You Go, There You Are. On its 30th anniversary, he joins Sean for a wide-ranging conversation about what it means to be mindful in the attention economy, why mindfulness has skyrocketed in popularity, and how to think about the commercialization of an ancient practice.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Jon Kabat-Zinn, mindfulness pioneer and author of Wherever You Go, There You Are. Learn more about his work at https://jonkabat-zinn.com and follow him at https://twitter.com/jonkabatzinn and https://www.facebook.com/kabatzinn

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Jon Ehrens 
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd

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Taking anarchism seriously

Most people think anarchists want to live in a lawless society devoid of any structure or order. But anarchism is actually a serious political philosophy that’s more focused on egalitarianism than it is on chaos. Philosopher Sophie Scott-Brown is an anarchist in this tradition, and she makes the convincing case that anarchism is the only political philosophy poised to deal with the uncertainty of the modern world.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Sophie Scott-Brown research fellow at the University of St. Andrews and the Director of Gresham College in London, and the author of the book Colin Ward and the Art of Everyday Anarchy.

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Jon Ehrens 
• Engineer: Brandon McFarland

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3,000 years of The Iliad

Constance Grady, a culture writer at Vox, is joined by Emily Wilson to discuss her bestselling translations of The Iliad and The Odyssey. They unpack the buzz surrounding them and the significance of The Iliad today. 

Host: Constance Grady, (@constancegrady), culture writer, Vox

Guest: Emily Wilson, classics professor and translator of The Iliad and The Odyssey

References: 

The Iliad by Homer, translated by Emily Wilson (W.W. Norton, 2023)

The Odyssey by Homer, translated by Emily Wilson (W.W. Norton, 2018) 

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This episode was made by: 

• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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Late-stage liberalism

Sean Illing is joined by John Gray, political philosopher and author of the new book, The New Leviathans: Thoughts After Liberalism. They discuss Thomas Hobbes and the origins of liberalism, the current state of democracy, and the very uncertain future of the global liberal order.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: John Gray, author and political philosopher

References: 

The New Leviathans: Thoughts After Liberalism by John Gray (Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2023)

Leviathan by Thomas Hobbes (1651)

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This episode was made by: 

• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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The case against free will

Sean Illing speaks with Robert Sapolsky, a professor of biology and neurology at Stanford University and the author of a new book called Determined: A Science of Life Without Free Will. They discuss the concept of free will, whether it actually exists in the way we think it does, and what it means for society if free will is indeed an illusion.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Robert Sapolsky, author, Determined: A Science of Life Without Free Will

References: 

Determined: A Science of Life Without Free Will by Robert M. Sapolsky (Penguin Random House, 2023)

Behave by Robert M. Sapolsky (Penguin Random House, 2018)

“Robert Sapolsky Doesn’t Believe in Free Will. (But Feel Free to Disagree.)” by Hope Reese (New York Times, October 2023)

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This episode was made by: 

• Engineer: Rob Byers
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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A Jew and a Muslim get honest about Israel and Gaza

Zack Beauchamp, a Vox senior correspondent who writes about democracy and Israel, speaks with Shadi Hamid, a columnist at The Washington Post, research professor of Islamic studies at Fuller Seminary, and author of The Problem of Democracy: America, the Middle East, and the Rise and Fall of an Idea. They discuss the October 7 attack, the subsequent war in Gaza, what it means for Israelis and Palestinians, and how Jews and Muslims in the United States can find common ground amidst their communities’ grief.

This conversation was recorded on November 2, 2023.

Host:  Zack Beauchamp (@zackbeauchamp), senior correspondent at Vox 

Guest: Shadi Hamid, (@shadihamid), columnist and Editorial Board member at The Washington Post, research professor of Islamic studies at Fuller Seminary, and author of The Problem of Democracy: America, the Middle East, and the Rise and Fall of an Idea. 

References: 

“Reducing Hamas’s terrorism to a problem of ‘evil’ is a mistake” by Shadi Hamid (The Washington Post, Oct. 2023)

The Problem of Democracy: America, the Middle East, and the Rise and Fall of an Idea by Shadi Hamid (Oxford University Press, 2022)

“Everything you need to know about Israel-Palestine: A comprehensive guide to the basics of the world’s most controversial conflict” by Zack Beauchamp (Vox)

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This episode was made by: 

Engineer: Rob Byers

Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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How to keep panic from attacking

Sean Illing is joined by Matt Gutman, the chief national correspondent for ABC News, to talk about his new book, No Time to Panic: How I Curbed My Anxiety and Conquered a Lifetime of Panic Attacks. They discuss their personal experiences with panic, the evolutionary roots of it, and how Matt has gained control over his feelings of panic and anxiety.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Matt Gutman (@mattgutmanABC), author, No Time to Panic: How I Curbed My Anxiety and Conquered a Lifetime of Panic Attacks.

References: 

No Time to Panic: How I Curbed My Anxiety and Conquered a Lifetime of Panic Attacks by Matt Gutman (Penguin Random House, 2023)

“The brutal mirror: What the psychedelic drug ayahuasca showed me about my life” by Sean Illing (Vox, February 2018)

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This episode was made by: 

• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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We Are What We Watch

Guest host Alissa Wilkinson speaks with Walt Hickey about his new book, You Are What You Watch: How Movies and TV Affect Everything. They discuss how entertainment affects the physical and mental states of viewers — from blood coagulation during horror movie screenings to an increase in Dalmatian adoptions after 101 Dalmatians was released in theaters — and why our responses to what we watch are worth celebrating.

Host: Alissa Wilkinson (@alissamarie), senior culture writer, Vox

Guest: Walt Hickey, (@walterhickey) author, You Are What You Watch: How Movies and TV Affect Everything

References: 

You Are What You Watch: How Movies and TV Affect Everything by Walt Hickey (Workman Publishing Company, 2023)

“How to Use Math to Crush Your Friends at Monopoly Like You’ve Never Done Before” by Walt Hickey (Business Insider, Jun. 2013)

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This episode was made by: 

• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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Werner Herzog’s ecstatic truth

Sean Illing speaks with one of his heroes: Werner Herzog. Herzog is a filmmaker, poet, and author of the new memoir Every Man for Himself and God Against All. They discuss “ecstatic truth,” a term invented by Herzog to capture what he’s really after in his work. Illing also asks him a range of big questions, such as why he is interested in Mars and whether he thinks humanity is destroying itself.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), host, The Gray Area

Guest: Werner Herzog, author, Every Man for Himself and God Against All

References: 

Every Man for Himself and God Against All by Werner Herzog (Penguin Random House, 2023) 

Of Walking in Ice by Werner Herzog

Last Whispers by Lena Herzog (2022)

“Werner Herzog Talks Virtual Reality” by Patrick House (The New Yorker, Jan. 2016)

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This episode was made by: 

• Producer: Katelyn Bogucki
• Engineer: Patrick Boyd
• Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: A.M. Hall

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