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0:01:43 >> Episode 337, 337 is Erica covering Southwestern Louisiana in 1937.
0:01:47 J. R. R. Tolkien published The Hobbit, true story.
0:01:49 My porn name was inspired by The Hobbit.
0:01:51 Call me Dildo Baggins.
0:02:01 [MUSIC]
0:02:05 >> Okay, what’s going on?
0:02:07 I am on vacation for the week.
0:02:09 I am in Zermatt.
0:02:10 Why am I in Zermatt?
0:02:11 Because I can be.
0:02:16 And that light at the end of the tunnel where my kids are no longer gonna be.
0:02:20 I’m so freaked out about all this data around 90% of the time you’re gonna spend
0:02:23 with your kids is before they’re 18 and my kids are barreling towards 18.
0:02:30 So I’m spending most of my disposable time and money on spending time with them.
0:02:32 Anyways, in place of our regular scheduled programming,
0:02:34 we’re sharing a conversation with Jay Shetty,
0:02:39 the host of the world’s number one mental health podcast on purpose.
0:02:44 I found Jay to be really nice and soulful in what you would expect from someone who
0:02:46 has the number one podcast on mental health.
0:02:49 We discussed with Jay his journey from monk to media mogul.
0:02:53 The business of podcasting and the key to personal growth and success.
0:02:57 So with that, here’s our conversation with Jay Shetty.
0:02:59 [MUSIC]
0:03:01 Jay, where does this podcast find you?
0:03:04 >> I’m at my home studio in LA.
0:03:06 >> That’s right, I have been there.
0:03:09 It’s like a little bird’s nest overlooking all of LA.
0:03:14 Something that people consistently ask me in an age of AI and digital is,
0:03:19 what is the key competence should young people be studying to find success in
0:03:20 economic security?
0:03:24 In my view, the only enduring skill is storytelling.
0:03:27 And I think of you as someone who has mastered storytelling.
0:03:31 I’d love to hear a little bit of the origin story around how you
0:03:33 developed your skills as a storyteller.
0:03:38 >> Wow, I don’t think I’ve ever been asked that before, I love that.
0:03:39 So I don’t disagree with you.
0:03:45 I think storytelling is such a powerful skill and such a powerful tool.
0:03:51 My origins of storytelling, I’d have to go back to,
0:03:54 wow, I’m really having to look for that.
0:03:57 >> I’ll help, you were a consultant, right?
0:03:59 >> Yeah, but it was long before that.
0:04:02 I think, yeah, I found it, I found it, I found it.
0:04:04 Thank you for that prompt, I found it.
0:04:09 I was fascinated by autobiographies growing up.
0:04:14 So I spent my teens in the pages of Martin Luther King,
0:04:19 Malcolm X all the way through to David Beckham and Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson.
0:04:24 And I found myself just completely captivated by the real life stories,
0:04:29 not just the medals, the awards, the successes, but the depression,
0:04:33 the doubts, the fears, the pain that people had gone through.
0:04:36 And to me, those stories moved me, they stayed with me.
0:04:41 I, even till this day, if someone tells me something’s based on a true story,
0:04:42 I want to watch it immediately.
0:04:46 And so to me, my love for storytelling and my love for stories
0:04:50 came from studying real life stories, true stories.
0:04:54 I was never attracted to fiction as I was to non-fiction.
0:04:59 I don’t, haven’t read much fiction in my life up until this point,
0:05:00 unless someone really recommends something.
0:05:05 And so my love for storytelling comes from hearing about the pains and
0:05:06 challenges people went through.
0:05:09 And there’s a famous quote that says,
0:05:13 I’ve never seen a strong person with an easy past.
0:05:19 And I really, truly believe that when we study the difficult, tumultuous,
0:05:23 challenging pasts of people we admire,
0:05:27 we in turn get the ability to build the strength, the resilience,
0:05:31 and the confidence through their journey.
0:05:34 You actually get to ask yourself, what would it look like?
0:05:38 What does life look like for someone who’s aspiring towards great things?
0:05:41 And going back to your point on what people are challenged by today,
0:05:44 I think we don’t study the stories of the greats anymore.
0:05:49 I don’t believe we dive into the pages of people who’ve come before us.
0:05:55 We’re looking at what everyone is doing today right now in the moment on social media.
0:06:01 We’re not looking at what they did 10, 20 years ago in their childhood bedroom,
0:06:06 or in an interaction with a family member or whatever it may have been
0:06:08 that is their defining moment.
0:06:12 So I think we get lost, enamored by where they are today,
0:06:14 where they live, what they drive, what they do.
0:06:18 But you don’t see the foundations of how they got there.
0:06:22 Was there a moment, an aha moment when you realized that you were good at it
0:06:25 and that you might be able to make a living at it?
0:06:31 I enjoyed it when I started speaking at colleges
0:06:35 and speaking to small groups in London.
0:06:37 I realized that I really enjoyed it.
0:06:40 I really was fulfilled by it.
0:06:43 But to me, it felt like something I would have to do on the weekends and evenings
0:06:50 because I didn’t know anyone in the world who could make a living off of it personally.
0:06:53 So I really believed that I would have to work a real day job,
0:06:55 being a consultant at the time.
0:06:58 And on top of that, I would do this on the evenings and weekends
0:07:00 because it’s what fulfilled me,
0:07:03 especially because what I would talk about was eastern wisdom,
0:07:07 which at the time especially was extremely niche, very small.
0:07:11 Even till this day, I think it’s still making its waves into the mainstream.
0:07:16 But eastern wisdom was something that was not high demand.
0:07:20 And so I was very much ready and set for the life
0:07:24 that I would work my day job that paid the bills.
0:07:27 And on the evenings and weekends, I would do something that was meaningful to me.
0:07:32 It was only when I made my first set of videos.
0:07:38 And my hope was I was doing events where maybe 5, 10, 20 people would show up.
0:07:43 And I was thinking, “Wow, if I did this video and maybe 100 people would be affected by it,
0:07:45 how amazing would that be?”
0:07:49 And it was only when my first four videos, when shared by The Huffington Post,
0:07:54 did something like 250 million views across platforms,
0:07:57 did I really believe that there was some momentum behind the message?
0:08:01 But at one point in my life, I had roughly 250 million views
0:08:03 and I was four months away from being broke.
0:08:07 So it took me a long time to realize that there was something real here.
0:08:10 And I think a big part of that is because I just never knew anyone
0:08:17 who had built a career out of sharing wisdom, telling stories and sharing insights.
0:08:20 I didn’t know anyone in my personal life.
0:08:22 And what was the first medium where you monetized it?
0:08:24 Was it books, videos, podcasts?
0:08:27 Like, give us the universe of Shetty.
0:08:32 Like, how have you figured out how you built a small, what feels like a small media empire?
0:08:34 Like, where, what is the flywheel here?
0:08:36 What do you do for awareness?
0:08:42 What do you do for, you know, academic heft or intellectual heft?
0:08:43 And how do you monetize it all?
0:08:48 Yeah, so I made videos for two years before I could actually monetize them online
0:08:52 because I started primarily on Facebook.
0:08:56 My videos were posted to YouTube at the time, but we didn’t have ads turned on.
0:08:58 And then I was working for the Huffington Post.
0:09:02 So I was a salary employee while making content for their platforms.
0:09:06 And then when I left and I was making content for my own platforms,
0:09:09 Facebook didn’t allow you to monetize until 2018.
0:09:12 And I started making videos in 2016 or something like that.
0:09:18 And so those first two years, I was just making videos because it was what I loved doing.
0:09:21 It’s what I enjoyed. It’s what was so meaningful.
0:09:26 And 2018, that shifted when Facebook was able to build their monetization.
0:09:31 And so that became a very early form of monetization, of storytelling.
0:09:34 And that was videos I was creating anyway.
0:09:38 It was amazing. We were making videos that were getting hundreds of millions of views at the time.
0:09:42 It’s really, really a special time in connecting with so many people.
0:09:47 At the same time, I was learning from my audience what they wanted from me.
0:09:52 And what I found was that a lot of people wanted coaching and meditations and insights.
0:09:56 And they wanted to learn these practices.
0:09:57 And so two things came from that.
0:10:01 One was we launched my Genius app and my Genius community,
0:10:05 which was a membership platform, a membership platform that exists today,
0:10:08 seven years on since we launched it,
0:10:15 where every single week I’m live wherever I am in the world for 40 minutes teaching a workshop.
0:10:18 So I was just in Mexico for a friend’s weekend this weekend.
0:10:20 And I’m live on the channel.
0:10:24 And this week I’ll be in LA and I’m live on the channel, wherever I’m in the world.
0:10:27 I’ll be live 52 weeks a year.
0:10:31 And we found that to just build an amazing connection with my community.
0:10:35 And it was built on the three practices that I believe are needed for transformation.
0:10:39 So there’s coaching, consistency and community.
0:10:43 I believe that if you want to change an area of your life, you need all three.
0:10:46 And most of us are trying to change our life with just one.
0:10:49 So if you have coaching, it means you know what to do.
0:10:52 But if you don’t have consistency, you don’t know how to repeat it.
0:10:57 And if you don’t have community, you won’t be inspired and motivated to keep going.
0:11:01 If you only have community, you have lots of people around you that want to get there.
0:11:04 But you don’t have coaching, you don’t know where you’re going.
0:11:07 And if you don’t have consistency, you don’t have the habit building.
0:11:12 And so Genius, my app was built around coaching, consistency and community.
0:11:16 And we’ve had thousands of members from over 140 countries in the world
0:11:19 that are members of that platform.
0:11:20 And then I saw the value in meditation.
0:11:25 And I was getting a lot of mentions from a lot of friends of mine
0:11:29 that at the same time, 2016, 2018, around those times,
0:11:31 there was this app that was having this massive impact.
0:11:33 It was called Calm.
0:11:35 Of course, everyone knows it now.
0:11:38 And a lot of my friends were telling me about Calm.
0:11:42 And a lot of other people were telling the founders of Calm about me and my work.
0:11:44 And everyone kept telling us we should meet.
0:11:46 So I met with the founders of Calm.
0:11:50 I think probably the first time in 2018, somewhere like that,
0:11:54 with Michael and Alex, who went on to become very good friends.
0:12:00 And I love their vision of making meditation and mindfulness
0:12:03 available in the most accessible, relevant, practical ways.
0:12:06 So they have meditation stories read by Matthew McConaughey
0:12:10 or meditation series by LeBron James.
0:12:14 And so we built together something that they wanted to call the Daily J,
0:12:20 which is where people can listen to me for seven minutes every single day,
0:12:22 five days a week for the last three years.
0:12:27 And that program was around, you know, $42 a year for the subscription.
0:12:30 So that became an amazing, amazing investment in my time and energy,
0:12:35 where we scripted a unique meditation that last seven minutes was seven minutes
0:12:39 because we wanted to create something that you could do while washing the dishes,
0:12:42 doing the laundry, drying your clothes.
0:12:46 You could do it while packing your breakfast in the morning, whatever it was.
0:12:50 We wanted to create a meditation that you could practice on top of your already busy life.
0:12:54 And that’s had tens of millions of downloads now, that meditation series.
0:12:59 So I found myself partnering with amazing brands that I was proud to be a part of.
0:13:02 I found myself creating ventures like Genius.
0:13:07 And then, of course, as we went and built the podcast, which we launched in 2019,
0:13:09 that’s an interesting story in and of itself,
0:13:14 because I invested everything I had in 2018 to launch the podcast in 2019,
0:13:21 put all the money I had into production, you know, editing, all of that kind of stuff.
0:13:24 And for anyone who’s launched a podcast, you know,
0:13:27 you can’t monetize for the first six to 12 months
0:13:32 because you have to have a consistent record of downloads and data.
0:13:37 And so we didn’t start monetizing the podcast probably until late 2019, early 2020.
0:13:40 But that turned out to be one of the best investments in my life
0:13:42 because of the success of the podcast that we’ve had now.
0:13:48 So I looked at everything from partnerships, platforms, and all of it came from a place of passion.
0:13:54 I did the podcast because I had people in my life that I was coaching clients or friends
0:13:57 that I was having these amazing offline conversations with.
0:14:00 And I thought, how amazing would it be to have them online?
0:14:03 The CarMap was because I loved what they were building.
0:14:06 And I’m so grateful to be the Chief Purpose Officer of CarM.
0:14:08 And then Genius was a need.
0:14:10 Our audience was saying, Jay, I want you to coach me.
0:14:12 I want your insight in my life.
0:14:14 And so all of it was built around passions.
0:14:19 We got so many other offers for me to build everything from apps
0:14:23 that I didn’t want to build through to this field and that industry.
0:14:26 We said no to so many things because they weren’t things we were passionate about.
0:14:29 I think there were plenty more opportunities that we’ve said no to
0:14:31 than the ones we said yes to.
0:14:35 So you’re both in subscription and ad supported.
0:14:37 Do you have any advice?
0:14:41 I mean, we are constantly, it feels like every three or six months,
0:14:45 we toy with the idea of putting some, some or all of our content behind a paywall.
0:14:48 Because sometimes you read an ad and you think, I mean,
0:14:51 for example, we no longer do crypto ads because I read this ad.
0:14:54 And I think I don’t have the time to do diligence on this.
0:14:56 And I just don’t, it just doesn’t feel right.
0:15:01 And I actually enjoy some of the ad reads, but we always toy with the idea.
0:15:04 Wouldn’t it be nice to kind of go more artisanal?
0:15:06 I have a lot of respect for Sam Harris.
0:15:08 I know you’ve built a big subscription business.
0:15:13 Break down the pluses and the minuses in your view of kind of the ad supported model
0:15:14 and the subscription model.
0:15:16 And do you have a preference for one or the other?
0:15:22 I’d say that to me, when I look at anything, I have a three step checking system.
0:15:25 So whether we’re choosing an ad partner to come on our platform,
0:15:27 whether we’re looking at a partnership.
0:15:31 And it’s always been called ESM and the E stands for energy.
0:15:35 The first thing I look at is, do I think we’re energetically matched?
0:15:38 So when I met Michael Acton Smith and Alex, who founded calm,
0:15:40 I really liked those guys.
0:15:40 They’re great people.
0:15:43 And so if I can, I’m always trying to sense energy.
0:15:45 I loved it when you came into the studio.
0:15:46 I thought we hit it off.
0:15:48 I hope we can do lots more together.
0:15:51 I’m someone who likes to live in an energetic space.
0:15:53 The second is strategy.
0:15:57 Do I really believe now that we’ve passed through the gate of energy,
0:16:04 do I really believe that strategically this partner, this brand, this idea
0:16:06 whether it be a venture, is it strategically accurate?
0:16:08 Do we actually believe this has a plan?
0:16:10 Does it strategically make sense?
0:16:13 Does it have, do we understand the market?
0:16:14 Do we understand demand?
0:16:16 And I always do that second.
0:16:19 And that’s an important second gate for it to pass through.
0:16:21 And the M stands for money.
0:16:25 Finally, financially, does this stack up in terms of my investment in time,
0:16:29 in terms of what I believe our value is, that person’s value is,
0:16:31 are we aligned financially?
0:16:33 And so to me, ESM has always been my model.
0:16:37 And because I think in initial times, the energy would be great
0:16:39 and you just rush into a relationship.
0:16:42 And it’s almost like bad dating where like,
0:16:43 you’re like, oh, we energetically get along.
0:16:45 We should build something together.
0:16:47 And then, you know, three months down the line,
0:16:48 you realize it wasn’t a good fit.
0:16:53 And so ESM has protected me and helped me make better decisions,
0:16:54 not that I’ve made perfect decisions,
0:16:56 but it’s definitely been a supportive technique.
0:17:00 When I look at both of the methods you’ve talked about,
0:17:05 I love the fact that 99% of what I create is free.
0:17:07 So the podcast is free.
0:17:11 We post to Instagram every day for free.
0:17:14 We post to YouTube every week for free.
0:17:20 We, 99% of what we create on a yearly basis is absolutely free.
0:17:22 Now, like you said, there’s an ads space there.
0:17:24 Like we have ads on our podcast, of course,
0:17:28 but they’re brands that we choose very intentionally
0:17:31 and carefully through our research and the best we can.
0:17:35 And that to me, I love because my goal
0:17:37 was always making wisdom go viral.
0:17:42 How can we make wisdom accessible, relevant,
0:17:43 and practical to everyone?
0:17:44 That’s where my true heart is.
0:17:50 That’s what my joy is in knowing that someone in the middle
0:17:54 of a country that I’ve never visited can watch my video
0:17:55 and it can help them.
0:17:56 That makes my day.
0:17:57 Like that really fuels me.
0:18:00 At the same time, what I found is that there were people
0:18:04 who wanted to go deeper, who wanted to learn more,
0:18:05 who wanted more commitment,
0:18:08 the Genius app being a great membership platform.
0:18:12 We found that those were people who wanted to commit
0:18:15 an hour, two hours, three hours a week to do the work.
0:18:18 Now, in order to give them something that’s of value,
0:18:22 I also needed to put in more effort.
0:18:24 I also needed to be able to build a platform.
0:18:26 We have teams that are running all the behind the scenes.
0:18:29 So if you ask me which one I prefer,
0:18:31 the truth is I like both models.
0:18:35 I think entrepreneurs should be open to both models
0:18:38 because I think free is a great way to scale
0:18:41 and membership is a great way for depth.
0:18:43 And I value both scale and depth
0:18:45 because scale allows me to reach someone
0:18:47 who may never have a thought about wellness
0:18:52 and depth allows me to reach people as deeply as I want to take them.
0:18:55 And so to me, as someone who’s fascinated by both scale and depth,
0:18:59 I’m not excited about the fact that someone listens to one episode
0:19:00 and then never changes their life
0:19:04 because I don’t believe that you’re going to transform your whole life
0:19:06 without habits and community.
0:19:09 At the same time, I’m not someone who’s just inspired
0:19:11 by taking people on a long journey
0:19:14 and not reaching people in the corners of the world.
0:19:16 So my values are both scale and depth.
0:19:19 And I believe there was a TED talk a few years ago
0:19:21 that called it, I can’t remember who it was by,
0:19:23 but it was called mass intimacy.
0:19:26 So this idea of how do you scale an idea
0:19:29 but then have really intimate experiences with people?
0:19:31 So membership to me is intimacy
0:19:33 and social media and podcasting is scale.
0:19:36 And when you break that down further,
0:19:41 what we realized after running genius for what was it at that time,
0:19:45 probably like we were running genius for two to three years
0:19:49 and we found that people needed to become leaders.
0:19:52 So we launched my certification school
0:19:56 because we found that now people who’d been through the program,
0:19:57 they were saying, Jay, I want to be a part of this mission.
0:19:59 I want to help others.
0:20:00 I want to serve. I want to give back.
0:20:01 I want to be involved.
0:20:03 I don’t just want to be a student.
0:20:05 I want to be a teacher and a leader.
0:20:07 And so we built our certification platform
0:20:09 to help people actually develop the skills.
0:20:11 It’s a full 100 hour program.
0:20:14 So a lot of our development of products and services
0:20:17 has been based on listening to our community.
0:20:19 And I think that’s what I would be doing
0:20:21 when you’re making your decision
0:20:24 is if you’re hearing people say, Scott,
0:20:25 I really want a membership.
0:20:26 Like I want to learn more from you.
0:20:28 I want to have more access to you.
0:20:30 I don’t just want you talking to all of us.
0:20:33 I want you talking to a small group of us.
0:20:36 I think it’s listening to your audience and community
0:20:38 that makes us make amazing shifts.
0:20:40 So for us, everything we’ve developed
0:20:43 has been constantly, consciously listening intently
0:20:46 to what our audience wants, what they need,
0:20:47 how we can make it better.
0:20:50 And I think that’s the fun of being a creator there.
0:20:51 You’re not just building your vision.
0:20:53 You’re building the vision that your audience wants.
0:20:56 You’re also, I mean, you’re definitely,
0:20:57 you’re going, in my sense, or what I’ve read
0:20:58 is you’re going multi-channel.
0:21:00 That you’re actually taking your podcast on tour.
0:21:01 Is that correct?
0:21:03 That’s right. Yeah. I’m so excited.
0:21:06 It’s the first time we’ve ever taken the podcast on tour.
0:21:12 So two years ago, I went on a nearly 40 city world tour,
0:21:14 which was a one-man show led by myself.
0:21:17 But this time, I’m actually going to interview guests on stage.
0:21:21 And I just felt that the podcast is now, what, six years old?
0:21:25 And it felt like the right time to go out there.
0:21:26 And I was thinking, all these people are trusting us
0:21:28 with their ears every day.
0:21:30 And I was like, I want to meet the people
0:21:31 who make on purpose what it is.
0:21:33 I always say on my podcast,
0:21:35 “Hey, if you see me on the streets, come and say hi.
0:21:36 If you listen on purpose,
0:21:38 tell me that you listen to the podcast.”
0:21:39 And I get lots of people coming.
0:21:40 It’s nice, isn’t it?
0:21:41 Yeah, I get lots of people coming up to me.
0:21:43 So I thought, how awesome would it be
0:21:45 to actually travel, bring out guests
0:21:48 that people also are excited to see in the flesh?
0:21:50 I hope maybe you’ll come out to one of them
0:21:51 and be a guest for us.
0:21:52 That would be amazing.
0:21:55 And I think also giving people the opportunity
0:21:57 to ask me questions, ask the guest questions,
0:22:00 I think it’s a dynamic experience
0:22:02 that you don’t get to do on a podcast.
0:22:03 So I’m excited to take it on tour.
0:22:05 So we’re starting with North America,
0:22:07 and then hopefully we’ll take it across
0:22:08 different parts of the world as well.
0:22:11 It feels to me like podcasts saying,
0:22:12 I mean, the original guys,
0:22:14 the Mark Marins, the Alec Baldwin’s,
0:22:18 there were some kind of initial people in podcasting,
0:22:19 and Joe Rogan is endured,
0:22:22 but there’s a constant reshuffling.
0:22:23 I have noticed, for example,
0:22:26 I think Joe Rogan is about to be displaced,
0:22:30 either by Mel Robbins or a kid here named Stephen Bartlett.
0:22:32 There’s just a constant disruption
0:22:33 in the podcasting space.
0:22:36 And because I’m obsessed with affirmation of other people,
0:22:38 and I’m always feeling economically insecure,
0:22:40 I check the rankings every day,
0:22:43 and I can’t get over just how dynamic
0:22:44 the rankings are right now,
0:22:48 meaning that I would bet in the top 100 podcasts,
0:22:49 30 of them, and it feels like 50,
0:22:51 weren’t there six months ago,
0:22:53 which means 30 or 50 that were in the top 100
0:22:54 and are no longer there.
0:22:55 What are your observations?
0:22:57 I mean, I think people think of you
0:22:59 as a very spiritual guy on a podcast,
0:23:00 but you’re also a business person.
0:23:02 When you sit down with your team
0:23:03 and you think about the dynamics
0:23:04 of the business right now,
0:23:06 what do you see out there?
0:23:07 What do you think is shaking up the industry?
0:23:11 So, yeah, it’s a really interesting question,
0:23:12 and I love talking about these things,
0:23:17 and I really believe that talking just suddenly
0:23:18 to the point that you mentioned
0:23:20 about spirituality and business,
0:23:23 one of my favorite thoughts from Martin Luther King is,
0:23:27 those who love peace need to learn to organize themselves
0:23:28 as well as those who love war.
0:23:31 And so when I look at my strategic mind
0:23:32 and when I look at my business mind,
0:23:36 I’ve become extremely organized about spreading wisdom
0:23:38 because I believe that if I’m not,
0:23:40 this wouldn’t even exist.
0:23:41 I wouldn’t even be around today.
0:23:44 I started creating content nine years ago,
0:23:46 and the fact that we still exist
0:23:49 is only because we’ve had to be thoughtful
0:23:50 and mindful about how we build,
0:23:53 and I think mindfulness and strategy
0:23:55 are more aligned than people may think.
0:23:59 So, anyway, to answer your question more directly,
0:24:01 there’s a couple of things.
0:24:05 The first thing is when a lot of us started out,
0:24:06 I mean, I can’t speak to Joe Rogan
0:24:08 because there’s so many more years before me,
0:24:11 but when you look at my content journey on social media,
0:24:14 whether it’s Facebook where we have 30 million followers,
0:24:16 Instagram where we have 16 million followers,
0:24:18 TikTok where we have four and a half million followers,
0:24:22 the podcast where we do 100 million downloads,
0:24:25 hundreds of millions of downloads every year,
0:24:30 the differences is that it was all organic.
0:24:34 And what I mean by that is we never did any paid advertising.
0:24:37 And what I’ve noticed in the last six to 12 months
0:24:40 is a lot of the rise has come from paid models,
0:24:42 more strategic models,
0:24:45 the industry getting smarter and sharper,
0:24:47 giving people the ability to pay to play.
0:24:51 And so I’m noticing that a lot of the charts,
0:24:53 and for those of us that understand that well,
0:24:55 a lot of the charts aren’t necessarily accurate,
0:24:57 a lot of it’s become paid to play.
0:25:00 And so the charts are accurate and inaccurate
0:25:02 in that they’re incomplete
0:25:04 because there’s so much more to it behind the scenes.
0:25:08 So there are platforms now where you can pay money
0:25:11 based on however many episodes that you want to launch
0:25:12 that will boost your subscribers,
0:25:14 not artificially, they’re real people,
0:25:16 but it will boost you in the charts
0:25:18 because you just got more subscribers that week.
0:25:21 That doesn’t mean you actually got more listens than Joe Rogan,
0:25:22 just to give an example.
0:25:24 And so I think we have to be very careful
0:25:28 as creators when we’re watching those things.
0:25:31 And to me, the pay to play has changed the industry of podcasting.
0:25:35 I think the exclusive deals that now have gone
0:25:37 non-exclusive have changed the deal.
0:25:40 So none of the big platforms right now, Spotify, et cetera,
0:25:42 want to do exclusive deals again.
0:25:44 So they don’t want to do that either.
0:25:45 So that’s changed the market.
0:25:48 And the third thing that’s changed the market
0:25:52 is the incorporation of YouTube and video views.
0:25:56 So audio as an industry has only ever valued.
0:25:58 So when I came into podcasting,
0:26:00 we worked really hard on downloads
0:26:02 because that’s where the value was financially
0:26:04 from a business point of view.
0:26:06 But today, the shift is happening slowly.
0:26:08 It’s not happened yet.
0:26:10 But in the next 12 months, you’re going to see video views
0:26:13 being married to audio downloads
0:26:16 as part of valuing the strength of a podcast.
0:26:18 Hence, when you look at the success of Stephen,
0:26:21 who’s a friend and coming over for dinner tonight,
0:26:23 or Mel, who’s also a friend who’s been on the show,
0:26:27 like when you look at the success Stephen’s had on YouTube,
0:26:30 that value hasn’t even been accounted for yet.
0:26:33 And in the next 12 months, you’re going to see that
0:26:36 be accounted for in a really valuable way
0:26:38 from a financial business point of view.
0:26:39 So I think those are the three things,
0:26:42 pay to play, non-exclusivity,
0:26:46 which is really helpful for people to be on every platform
0:26:49 and gain the distribution that platforms weren’t allowing.
0:26:52 And then the third thing is the valuing of YouTube
0:26:55 as a big, big, big player.
0:26:57 And if I’m not mistaken,
0:27:00 the biggest consumption of podcasting happens on YouTube.
0:27:04 And so I think those three things have really shifted
0:27:06 up the industry where back in the day,
0:27:06 you didn’t have pay to play.
0:27:08 It was purely organic.
0:27:09 Platforms were exclusive.
0:27:13 So you had podcasts that weren’t competing for their rankings.
0:27:16 And thirdly, YouTube wasn’t included.
0:27:19 Not that it’s included in Apple or Spotify rankings,
0:27:21 but it wasn’t included from a business point of view.
0:27:22 We’ll be right back.
0:27:30 Support for the show comes from the FunRise Innovation Fund.
0:27:32 Think of the five biggest names in AI today.
0:27:34 How many of these companies do you own shares of?
0:27:35 Probably not many.
0:27:38 Maybe one, maybe two.
0:27:38 Why is that?
0:27:40 Because the open AI’s and anthropics of the world
0:27:41 are still private.
0:27:45 That means unless you’re an employee or a VC, you’re out of luck.
0:27:47 So it isn’t hard to see why venture capital
0:27:49 has been one of the most prized asset classes in the world.
0:27:51 But unless you’re worth eight or nine figures,
0:27:53 you likely don’t have access to these funds.
0:27:55 The FunRise Innovation Fund is different.
0:27:57 It’s already raised more than $150 million.
0:28:00 It holds a portfolio of pre-IPO tech companies
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0:28:21 Support for the show comes from Skims.
0:28:23 This is for the men listening right now.
0:28:25 There are endless products promising self-improvement,
0:28:28 but when was the last time you updated your underwear drawer?
0:28:30 Though the first thing you put on in the morning,
0:28:34 so you might as well get it right with Skims.
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0:29:25 Support for PropG comes from the NPR podcast Up First.
0:29:27 Compulsively reading, depressing, upsetting
0:29:30 and enraging news all day long does not feel good.
0:29:32 You don’t need to tell me that.
0:29:35 Oh my God, help me, Cal God take me away,
0:29:37 but it can be hard to find the right balance.
0:29:41 Between protecting your mental health and staying informed,
0:29:44 that’s where NPR’s podcast Up First comes in.
0:29:46 Up First covers the three most important stories
0:29:48 of the day in just 15 minutes so you can learn
0:29:50 what you need to know and then move on with your day.
0:29:53 From the current administration to business and the economy,
0:29:54 all the way to immigration policies.
0:29:57 Up First is the go-to daily habit for the news consumer
0:30:01 who wants to stay informed but is forever strapped for a time.
0:30:03 And every episode gives you what you need to be informed
0:30:05 without compromising your sanity.
0:30:08 I listened to a recent episode and I found it really crisp
0:30:10 and kind of gave me sort of an overview
0:30:12 or the cliff notes of the day.
0:30:15 And by the way, NPR, they just do a fantastic job
0:30:16 at almost everything they do.
0:30:19 The production quality is really top notch.
0:30:21 If you’re looking for more news and less noise,
0:30:25 you can listen to the Up First podcast from NPR today.
0:30:36 I want to kind of move more towards your domain expertise
0:30:37 and I’m going to start out,
0:30:38 I want to talk about a couple things.
0:30:40 I want to talk about anxiety and I want to talk about finding love.
0:30:43 And I’m going to, so just so you know,
0:30:44 my guests are nothing but a vehicle for me
0:30:46 to talk about myself.
0:30:47 So this is that part of the program.
0:30:51 I struggle with anger and depression.
0:30:53 I’ve been able to manage it without pharmaceuticals.
0:30:57 I do it through exercise, time with my boys, trying to eat clean.
0:31:01 I have a bunch of tricks to try and, you know,
0:31:04 or practices to keep me sort of even killed
0:31:06 and hating my life less and less every day.
0:31:09 But things will trigger me and I’ll go down a rabbit hole.
0:31:11 And that’s happened to me recently
0:31:13 since the election or since the inauguration.
0:31:16 And whether that those feelings are justified
0:31:18 or there’s something deeper,
0:31:22 I’ve really struggled with trying to disassociate or separate
0:31:23 or maintain some perspective
0:31:27 around what’s happened recently in the US.
0:31:29 And this isn’t a political statement.
0:31:31 I’m not saying that my anxiety is warranted
0:31:36 or in any way justifies or indicts what’s happening.
0:31:42 But I would, what advice would you give to me to say, okay, Scott?
0:31:44 And for me, meditation is like flossing.
0:31:45 I lie about it.
0:31:48 And that is when my hygienist says, do you floss?
0:31:50 I lie and I say yes.
0:31:51 I very rarely floss.
0:31:54 And when people ask me if I meditate, I lie and I say yes.
0:31:55 And the reality is I don’t.
0:31:57 I really don’t do a lot of meditation.
0:31:59 So given that I’m a newbie,
0:32:02 given that I’m struggling a little bit with anxiety,
0:32:05 given the state of the world, give me your best shot.
0:32:08 Like give me your download on, all right, Scott,
0:32:11 these are some best practices, some initial steps.
0:32:15 You should be taking to manage your anxiety.
0:32:21 First of all, Scott, I want to validate your anxiety by saying that
0:32:28 I’m not surprised that you feel the anxiety that you feel.
0:32:30 I think we’re living at a time.
0:32:32 I was reading an article that said,
0:32:40 we digest or consume more tragedy in 24 hours
0:32:43 than we used to do in our whole lifetime 25 years ago.
0:32:46 And if you think about that for a second,
0:32:51 the amount of news, information, negativity, noise,
0:32:54 notifications that a human consumes today
0:32:57 is not something we’ve upgraded to yet.
0:33:00 It’s not something that we’ve figured out yet.
0:33:02 And so anyone who’s listening right now,
0:33:04 which I think will be all of your audience
0:33:07 that feels anxiety about something in their life,
0:33:09 it’s because we’re so overexposed.
0:33:12 Me, you, and everyone, we’re all overexposed.
0:33:15 You know what’s happening halfway across the world
0:33:18 before maybe even someone who’s in that area,
0:33:21 in that vicinity, if you’re logged in and tuned in.
0:33:24 And so I think the challenge we’re having is
0:33:26 we are exposed to more negativity,
0:33:31 noise, news, notifications than we ever have in our lifetime.
0:33:33 Now, accepting that, and we have to accept that,
0:33:35 because I think if we don’t accept that,
0:33:36 we can get very judgmental.
0:33:39 We can get very harsh with ourselves.
0:33:40 We can get very critical with ourselves.
0:33:43 If we just think I’m weak, I’m not strong enough.
0:33:45 I’m not, you know, maybe there’s something wrong with me.
0:33:48 It’s like, no, no, no, some things have changed.
0:33:50 Things have shifted and they’ve shifted fast.
0:33:51 And you might even have missed it.
0:33:53 So what do we do with that?
0:33:54 I think it’s really important.
0:33:58 The first thing I’d say is before we even get into meditation
0:34:02 is we’ve got to be really careful with our digital diet.
0:34:07 If your digital diet means in every gap of your day,
0:34:11 you take out your phone and you scroll on TikTok or Instagram
0:34:13 and you allow yourself to discover
0:34:17 the latest piece of news around the world,
0:34:20 it’s literally like going to your refrigerator
0:34:23 or your snack cupboard and picking out a bag of chips
0:34:26 every single part of the day where you have a break.
0:34:28 Now, if you did that, if every single break you had,
0:34:31 you went and grabbed a fizzy soda, a Coke,
0:34:34 you went and grabbed a bag of chips.
0:34:37 If you went and grabbed an unhealthy snack, no wonder.
0:34:39 Your diet would be terrible.
0:34:42 You’d be highly inflamed and you’d have massive health issues.
0:34:44 But that’s what we’re doing to our mind.
0:34:48 And so the first step for me is being really clear about
0:34:51 where you get your news, how you get your news
0:34:53 and how often you get it.
0:34:55 That to me will solve half of our issues.
0:34:58 I don’t think people are curating
0:35:02 how they consume difficult information.
0:35:04 If you think about it, like if you were diagnosed,
0:35:09 one of my friends recently sadly had diagnosis of cancer,
0:35:12 when his doctor was telling him he had cancer,
0:35:15 the doctor would say to you, “Take a seat.
0:35:16 “I’ve got something to share with you.
0:35:17 “Do you mind coming in?”
0:35:20 They might even call you and say, “Hey, do you mind coming in?
0:35:21 “Take a seat.
0:35:23 “Hey, this is what’s going on.”
0:35:27 That would be the environment in which you consume
0:35:29 difficult information.
0:35:31 Now, not that all the information we consume
0:35:33 on a daily basis is about us.
0:35:35 But if you’re going, “Oh my gosh, I just heard
0:35:36 “that someone got shot down the road.”
0:35:40 And, “Oh my god, I just opened up the ring app
0:35:41 “and I know that someone got burgled
0:35:42 “like a mile away from me.”
0:35:45 And then, “Oh my gosh, there’s fires happening over here.”
0:35:47 And it’s, all of a sudden, you’re not informed.
0:35:48 You’re overwhelmed.
0:35:52 And so I would really ask people to differentiate
0:35:56 between what is your definition of being informed
0:35:58 and what are the newsletters you follow,
0:35:59 what are the news accounts you follow,
0:36:01 how often do you look at it,
0:36:04 and that digital diet has to become everything.
0:36:06 Because otherwise, your anxiety is going to be
0:36:07 constantly triggered because, by the way,
0:36:10 these platforms are told to do that.
0:36:12 They know that they’ve got to have breaking news
0:36:13 every moment.
0:36:16 And I know so many people who just have a news channel on
0:36:18 in the background of living their day.
0:36:21 No wonder you’ve got all of this anxiety
0:36:23 just seeping in moment to moment.
0:36:27 Studies show we have 60 to 80,000 thoughts per day.
0:36:32 And 80% of those are negative
0:36:34 and 80% of those are repetitive.
0:36:38 So you’re not just having lots of different negative thoughts.
0:36:41 You’re having the same negative thought again
0:36:43 and again and again,
0:36:45 which means you can disrupt that pattern,
0:36:47 which means you can change it.
0:36:48 So how do we do it?
0:36:51 You were saying you struggle with meditation,
0:36:54 and I could give you loads of great meditation advice,
0:36:55 and here’s the thing, Scott,
0:36:57 until I lived with you for seven days,
0:36:58 maybe 30,
0:37:00 and sat next to you every single day
0:37:02 and meditated with you,
0:37:04 chances are it would be hard
0:37:06 for you to truly internalize it.
0:37:07 Because that’s the kind of pattern shift
0:37:09 that your life would require.
0:37:12 So, or anyone’s life would require.
0:37:14 So what I’m going to say is this,
0:37:17 you can’t control 60 to 80,000 thoughts per day.
0:37:18 You might not even be able to meditate
0:37:19 for 10 minutes a day,
0:37:21 but here’s what I want you to do.
0:37:24 I want you to master the first thought
0:37:28 and the last thought of every day,
0:37:30 because usually what happens
0:37:32 is our first thought is repetitive
0:37:33 and our last thought is repetitive.
0:37:34 Think about it.
0:37:36 You go to sleep and you say to yourself,
0:37:38 “I’m so tired.”
0:37:39 You wake up in the morning
0:37:40 and the first thing you say to yourself is,
0:37:42 “I’m so tired.”
0:37:44 You somehow make it through to 9 a.m.
0:37:45 to get your morning coffee
0:37:47 and you’re thinking, “I’m exhausted.”
0:37:48 Then you get to 12 noon
0:37:49 and you’re thinking,
0:37:50 “Well, lunch is going to be a bit late.
0:37:51 I’ve got a couple of meetings.
0:37:53 I’m exhausted.”
0:37:55 And now it makes it at 6 p.m.
0:37:56 You’re like, “I’m so tired,
0:37:57 but I’ve got to work a bit.”
0:38:00 And somehow at 10.37 p.m.,
0:38:02 you get the courage to click next episode
0:38:03 and watch another three hours
0:38:04 of your favorite show
0:38:05 and the cycle goes again.
0:38:08 So we’re used to repeating the thought,
0:38:10 “I’m so tired.”
0:38:11 And that thought’s useless.
0:38:14 It doesn’t help because we’re not making it useful.
0:38:17 So how do we master the first and last thought of the day?
0:38:19 You set an alarm at night
0:38:21 to wake up in the morning.
0:38:23 You don’t set an alarm in the morning.
0:38:24 Right? You don’t say,
0:38:25 “I’m going to wake up at 7.30.”
0:38:27 And when I wake up at 7.30 in the morning,
0:38:28 I have it on my alarm.
0:38:29 You go the night before,
0:38:31 “I want to wake up at 6 a.m. tomorrow.
0:38:32 Let me set my alarm.”
0:38:35 Let me set the mindset
0:38:37 I want to wake up with tonight.
0:38:39 What is the coding
0:38:41 that I’m going to put into my brain,
0:38:42 into my mind?
0:38:44 I am going to wake up
0:38:47 rejuvenated, rested, and fueled.
0:38:51 I am waking up feeling rested,
0:38:52 feeling calm,
0:38:56 and not being distracted from my phone.
0:38:59 What is it that you want to program yourself to do?
0:39:01 You’ll find that if you do that intentionally,
0:39:04 of course, if you ideally sleep at a decent time,
0:39:05 you’ll wake up in the morning,
0:39:08 and you’ll find that if you plan to that thought deep enough,
0:39:09 it will be the first thought of the day.
0:39:10 And all of a sudden,
0:39:12 you won’t retrieve your phone
0:39:13 and allow the news, negativity,
0:39:15 and notifications, and the noise to come in.
0:39:16 And you’ll say, “You know what?
0:39:17 I’m going to go on a little walk,
0:39:19 get some sunlight,
0:39:21 go and take my morning coffee,
0:39:23 what morning tea, whatever it is for you.
0:39:25 And yeah, in 30 minutes, I’ll look at my phone.
0:39:26 And by the way, I won’t just look at my phone.
0:39:29 I know the newsletter I’m going to look at
0:39:30 or the page I’m going to look at.
0:39:33 So I would encourage you
0:39:35 to master your first and last thought of the day
0:39:38 as a preliminary practice to meditation,
0:39:40 because to me,
0:39:43 those thoughts are the ones that are repeated
0:39:46 and meditation ultimately is a repeated thought.
0:39:47 And so that’s where I would start.
0:39:50 And I would have never gotten there on my own.
0:39:51 This is virtue signaling,
0:39:52 but I’ll do it anyways.
0:39:54 I’m finally, I’m older than you.
0:39:54 I’m at a point in my life
0:39:57 where I want to catch up from all that I’ve taken
0:39:59 and I’m starting to give away my money.
0:40:01 And it’s something I find really rewarding,
0:40:04 but I want to be intentional and purposeful about it.
0:40:06 And I met with someone who was so insightful around giving,
0:40:08 and they said, “What are you passionate about?”
0:40:11 And my passion is helping struggling young men.
0:40:13 Like, well, what would you do for them if you could do,
0:40:15 if you had a group of young men
0:40:17 and you wanted to do something for them,
0:40:18 what would you do?
0:40:18 What would you do?
0:40:20 And I said, “Well, number three in reverse order,
0:40:23 I’d want more male involvement in their life.”
0:40:25 And that’s, you know, you can solve that.
0:40:28 Big brothers, there’s some stuff that’s more complicated,
0:40:32 ranging from family court or different types of legislation.
0:40:35 Number two, more economic opportunities.
0:40:36 So you can think of things.
0:40:38 You can think of legislation or vocational programming.
0:40:41 But the thing I would want to do for young men,
0:40:42 and my question to you,
0:40:46 is if I could give anything to a lot of young men,
0:40:50 it’s that one in three young men are in a relationship,
0:40:53 and two in three women under the age of 30 in a relationship.
0:40:55 And you think, “Well, that’s mathematically impossible.”
0:40:57 It’s because women are dating older,
0:41:02 because they want more economically and emotionally viable men.
0:41:05 And when I look back at the most important things in my life
0:41:08 as a young man, it was having the joy,
0:41:10 the love, the camaraderie, and quite frankly,
0:41:13 the guardrails of a romantic relationship.
0:41:16 It was just so important, you know,
0:41:18 to have someone who was crazy about me
0:41:21 and then not crazy about me to get my heart broken,
0:41:23 to learn resilience.
0:41:26 It’s just that partnership, saving for a house.
0:41:30 It was just so, more I think than money,
0:41:33 more than anything, it just shaped me as a man.
0:41:38 And so few men are finding this.
0:41:38 At a young age.
0:41:41 And you’ve written a lot about this,
0:41:47 but how could you advise a young man to be more successful
0:41:50 with respect to romantic relationships and finding love?
0:41:52 And I know that’s a really big,
0:41:54 I know we’re gonna need a bigger boat,
0:41:58 but are there any practices for a young man who thinks,
0:42:01 “I remember thinking, I didn’t have a girlfriend
0:42:03 ’til I was well into college.
0:42:05 I remember thinking I’d be the best boyfriend
0:42:07 if someone would just give me a shot.”
0:42:07 Right?
0:42:10 And I think there are literally millions of men out there
0:42:12 who are thinking the same thing.
0:42:13 Anyways, your thoughts.
0:42:16 That’s, yeah, it’s a huge question.
0:42:19 And I’m so glad that you’ve focused your life on this.
0:42:22 I was very fortunate enough in my younger years
0:42:26 to mentor a group of 20 young men in my spiritual community
0:42:28 who I’ve seen grow up,
0:42:33 probably mentor them for around 15 years now at this point.
0:42:36 And it’s been an incredible journey watching them,
0:42:40 become phenomenal young men, find love, settle down.
0:42:43 Some of them have started to have children now.
0:42:46 It’s been one of the most meaningful investments in my life
0:42:49 that I probably didn’t realize how deep it was gonna be then.
0:42:52 And these men are my younger brothers.
0:42:54 They’ve become very, very close friends.
0:42:56 So it’s something very close to my heart.
0:43:00 The first thing I’ll say when it comes to love and for young men,
0:43:03 which is probably counterintuitive
0:43:05 and probably one of the hardest things to train,
0:43:09 but I do believe it’s so valuable, is sense control.
0:43:11 Because sense control,
0:43:14 and this is what I was fortunate enough to learn in the monastery,
0:43:21 sense control is the greatest confidence booster and builder
0:43:24 that you’ll ever, ever have.
0:43:30 You can’t be a master of your senses and not be confident.
0:43:34 It’s just not possible because you’ve conquered the hardest thing.
0:43:38 You’ve built a relationship with the part of you
0:43:41 that pushes you and pulls you whenever it feels like it.
0:43:44 So how does a young man do that in today’s world
0:43:50 that’s bombarded by porn, bombarded by exposure to too many things,
0:43:54 too many sensory images, sounds, everything else?
0:43:55 How do you do that?
0:44:02 I think it’s really powerful when men can build up a healthy relationship
0:44:06 with spending time alone by themselves.
0:44:08 And I think that comes through doing something hard.
0:44:10 It’s not sitting alone with your thoughts.
0:44:12 It’s not sitting around where you are.
0:44:17 It’s picking up a sport, a habit, a practice, a workout regime,
0:44:19 whatever it is that you’re passionate about,
0:44:25 reading, going there and building a strength and commitment
0:44:27 by focusing on doing something hard.
0:44:28 When I say sense control,
0:44:31 I don’t mean every single sense of yours is mastered
0:44:32 and you never feel any urge.
0:44:35 I mean, how can you do something that’s truly hard?
0:44:38 How can you do something that’s truly challenging?
0:44:40 And how can you do something that’s measured?
0:44:42 How can you do something where it’s like,
0:44:43 “Okay, I’m black belt now.
0:44:44 I’m blue belt now.
0:44:45 I’m yellow belt now.”
0:44:46 How can you do something where it’s like,
0:44:49 “Okay, I’m able to play this pace of tennis.
0:44:52 I’m an amateur, I’m semi-pro, whatever it may be.”
0:44:57 I think taking on a challenge that can be measured is critical.
0:45:00 And I think taking on something younger is ideal.
0:45:02 I was very fortunate.
0:45:05 My parents were so scared that I was going to be so shy
0:45:07 and insecure growing up,
0:45:09 they forced me to go to public speaking school.
0:45:12 And so from the ages of 11 to 18 for seven years,
0:45:15 I took exams in public speaking.
0:45:17 I went to nine hours a week in public speaking training.
0:45:18 I went to drama school.
0:45:21 I did a ton of training at that time and it was hard.
0:45:22 I was terrible.
0:45:23 My friends would laugh at me.
0:45:24 It wasn’t cool to go to that.
0:45:26 And when I look at any success I have today,
0:45:29 it’s because of those seven years of working,
0:45:31 working really, really hard on a skill set
0:45:33 that I didn’t even know how I was going to use.
0:45:35 I didn’t know podcasting didn’t exist,
0:45:36 social media didn’t exist.
0:45:38 It wasn’t like it was a strategic investment.
0:45:40 It was just the idea that there was something
0:45:41 that I could do that was hard.
0:45:42 I didn’t enjoy going.
0:45:43 I was forced to go.
0:45:44 But there’s power in that.
0:45:46 So don’t resist something that’s forced.
0:45:47 That would be step one.
0:45:51 The second thing men can do for romantic love is
0:45:57 be really aware whether you like someone
0:46:00 because you just want to be liked.
0:46:02 I think a lot of young men, like you say,
0:46:03 they say they’re going to be a great boyfriend.
0:46:06 But it’s because they want to be a great boyfriend.
0:46:10 They want to be known as being a great boyfriend,
0:46:11 not being a great partner.
0:46:13 And I think that’s a big, big, big challenge
0:46:16 as to why young love is so hard.
0:46:20 Because we’re doing the right thing not to be a good person,
0:46:21 but because we want to be as seen
0:46:22 as the person who’s doing the right thing.
0:46:25 We want to be seen as the guy who does all the right stuff.
0:46:27 And you may realize three months from now,
0:46:29 you don’t even like that person that much.
0:46:31 And so I’d be really, really clear on,
0:46:35 am I doing this to be liked or do I actually like this person?
0:46:37 If I like this person, let me really invest in this.
0:46:39 Let me really be building something powerful here.
0:46:44 But let me not do this because I’m building my self-worth
0:46:47 off of someone else’s praise of me doing the gimmicky thing
0:46:49 because I think it’s going to make them like me.
0:46:52 That’s going to end up messing their life up
0:46:53 and messing my life up.
0:46:56 And the third thing I’d say in love is
0:47:10 be really conscious of how your past pain creates present problems.
0:47:15 And so reflect on where you’re hoping your partner,
0:47:17 I call it the gifts and gaps.
0:47:22 We’re often wanting our partner to fill the gaps our parent left.
0:47:26 Or to repeat the gifts that our parents gave.
0:47:28 Be really aware of those.
0:47:32 I’m not saying either is right or wrong or they can go either way.
0:47:36 But to be really, really conscious and aware of where they’re coming from
0:47:40 because what often ends up happening is we’ve ruined something great
0:47:42 because of something terrible in the past.
0:47:46 And it’s because we’re so unaware of what triggers we’re taking forward with us.
0:47:49 I mean, I could talk about this for hours, but those are three things I think about.
0:47:57 We’ll be right back.
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0:50:50 We’re back with more from Jay Shetty.
0:50:53 I love the way you think.
0:50:56 You kind of, you think in threes very much like a consultant
0:51:02 and give us your top-line thoughts on what you’ve learned with your partner
0:51:06 and the relationship advice you would provide or give to more men
0:51:12 who are in a relationship, a monogamous relationship.
0:51:16 One of the things that was really hard for me to get over, Scott, was
0:51:22 as someone who’s a, you know, someone who’s on stage, a public personality,
0:51:27 and I think men have this regardless of whether you have a public profile or not.
0:51:32 I think men, we want to be admired.
0:51:33 We want to be appreciated.
0:51:36 We want to be respected, especially by our partners.
0:51:40 And some men I know want to be celebrated, want to be adored,
0:51:43 want to be fanned over to some degree.
0:51:47 And I was really fortunate because
0:51:54 my wife, by her own admission, I would say isn’t my,
0:52:00 isn’t the number one fan of my success, but she is the number one fan of me.
0:52:02 And I think this is a really important point.
0:52:09 I had to learn through my wife to value myself based on who I was
0:52:14 and how I behaved, not what I achieved and what I killed and what I created.
0:52:18 And I think if it wasn’t for the way she loved me for that,
0:52:21 I think I would have been someone who measured my value
0:52:28 based on simply my success, my wins, and my accolades.
0:52:33 And so I would encourage people to say, is your partner here for you?
0:52:39 Because chances are they are, but we’re so wrapped up in wanting them to love us
0:52:40 for what we achieve and what we do.
0:52:42 I’ve had so many friends who are like, oh my God,
0:52:46 like I just don’t feel valued for what I’m building and what I’m creating.
0:52:50 I’m like, that may be the case, but what if you lost it all?
0:52:52 Would that mean you wouldn’t be valued now?
0:52:54 Is that how you want to be loved?
0:52:56 Do you want to be loved for that and unloved for not having that?
0:52:59 Or do you want to be valued for the qualities you have,
0:53:02 the characteristics you have, the values you live by?
0:53:06 So that was a big, big, big lesson for me that I learned through my wife,
0:53:09 not that she doesn’t love the podcast and the books and whatever.
0:53:15 She appreciates all of it, but it pales into insignificance and irrelevance
0:53:20 compared to the love and appreciation she has for me as the man I show up as.
0:53:24 And I think that’s made me value myself more highly and better than I would have before.
0:53:25 So that’s been huge.
0:53:34 Another thing that comes to mind as you ask that is if your partner is trying to change you,
0:53:40 help them understand how unlikely that is.
0:53:43 I find that a lot of men deal with this problem the most,
0:53:45 where their partner’s trying to change them.
0:53:49 And I’ll often get women in my audience that will say to me,
0:53:52 “I really want my husband to get into self-development and personal growth.
0:53:54 And I just don’t get out and get him into it.
0:53:55 And he won’t listen to me.
0:53:57 And I’m giving him all the books.
0:53:58 And J.I. sent him your podcast.
0:53:59 I’m like, “Oh, please don’t.
0:54:00 Please don’t send him my stuff.
0:54:02 I don’t want him to hate me for the rest of my life.”
0:54:05 And I get a lot of those questions of how do I do it?
0:54:09 And when I’m speaking to the women, I’ll always say to them, “Don’t do it.
0:54:11 Like, let him find its way to it.
0:54:13 Let him find something that’s natural to it.
0:54:16 Don’t send him my interview with the person you’re inspired by.
0:54:18 Send him my interview with the person he’s inspired by.
0:54:19 Maybe he loves athletes.
0:54:21 Maybe he loves musicians.
0:54:22 Maybe he loves Scott.
0:54:26 Like, that’s the conversation he needs to listen to, not X, Y, and Z that you love.
0:54:28 Stop trying to make him the version of you.
0:54:34 And I think for a lot of men, either we pretend to change or we promise to change.
0:54:37 Or we say, “Yeah, yeah, yeah, we go along with it.”
0:54:39 Rather than saying, “You know what? This is who I am.
0:54:42 I’m really going to struggle to be that version that you want me to be.”
0:54:45 The amount of times when I met my wife, I was so clear.
0:54:46 I was like, “This is who I am.
0:54:47 This is who I’m going to be.
0:54:48 This is what I value.
0:54:50 This is my purpose.
0:54:51 This is the guy I am.
0:54:54 I’m not the guy who wants to go to the movie theater every week.
0:54:56 I’m not the guy who wants to do X, Y, Z.
0:54:57 Like, this is who I am.”
0:55:00 And communicating that.
0:55:02 And then also hearing from her, who is she?
0:55:03 What does she want?
0:55:08 And then we learn this art where we’ve overused the word respect,
0:55:10 but we’ve actually undervalued what it means.
0:55:16 Respect means I don’t need you to value what I value,
0:55:18 but you respect what I value.
0:55:22 You allow me to live life the way I want to live it.
0:55:25 And I allow you to live life the way you want to live it,
0:55:28 because I respect your value.
0:55:30 But I don’t need you to change to be who I am.
0:55:33 So I think being really careful about being open about,
0:55:33 “This is who I am.
0:55:36 This is what I can realistically do.”
0:55:40 I’m not going to pretend and promise and overshare on this potential of,
0:55:41 “I’ll be there someday.”
0:55:42 “Oh, I’m getting there.”
0:55:43 “Oh, yeah, yeah, I’m reading it.”
0:55:45 It’s kind of like what you said about meditation.
0:55:47 Like, what’s the point of lying?
0:55:48 What’s the point of pretending?
0:55:50 And as you said, I like threes,
0:55:53 and so I’ll give you one more, because why not?
0:56:05 My favorite one probably is letting my wife change.
0:56:09 I married, my wife and I met in our early 20s.
0:56:10 I was in my mid-20s.
0:56:12 You know, we’ve been married.
0:56:14 We’ve been together for 12 years, married for nine.
0:56:20 And I’ve been pretty much the same human through most of it.
0:56:21 I don’t think I’ve changed that much.
0:56:24 The scale of my life has changed and things like that.
0:56:28 But my priorities and the way I work, I’m pretty much very, very similar.
0:56:32 My wife has changed and lived so many different lives in the last 12 years.
0:56:39 And I feel like that’s the mistake a lot of us make
0:56:41 where we go, “Well, you didn’t care about this three years ago.
0:56:42 Why do you care about it now?
0:56:45 You didn’t want this seven years ago.
0:56:46 Why do you want it now?
0:56:48 You weren’t this person nine years ago.
0:56:50 How are you that person now?”
0:56:55 And I think the realization that, “Hey, the person you marry on your wedding day
0:56:59 is not the person that’s there at your 50th birthday.
0:57:02 And it’s not the person who’s there when you’re sick in hospital.
0:57:03 That person changes.”
0:57:04 And you probably will too.
0:57:09 So recognizing that they’re going to change, I’m going to change,
0:57:11 and I’m going to allow space for that.
0:57:12 Because guess what?
0:57:15 That’s what makes the relationship joyful.
0:57:16 That’s exciting.
0:57:18 And by the way, if I don’t find that exciting,
0:57:20 and I want to find someone that’s going to be the same,
0:57:23 I’m going to find someone who can probably be the same for seven years.
0:57:24 Right?
0:57:26 Divorce happens between the first five to seven years of marriage
0:57:28 and cycles every seven years.
0:57:31 Maybe someone can stay the same for five to seven years.
0:57:34 But even the cells in our body are changing during that time.
0:57:37 So maybe someone’s going to be a new person every seven years.
0:57:39 So maybe you’re going to leave that person, find another person.
0:57:42 Maybe you’ll find someone who stays the same for five to seven years.
0:57:44 But that person’s also going to become a new person.
0:57:46 So start getting real about the fact that
0:57:52 there is no consistency and stagnancy and remaining the same.
0:57:56 What remains the same is that you’ve lived that much life together.
0:57:59 My wife’s a different person today, but she’s the only person in the world
0:58:02 who’s experienced my trajectory with me as intimately.
0:58:06 That’s what I value so deeply about that consistency.
0:58:11 Kind of invokes that old adage that women want men to change
0:58:13 and men want women to stay the same.
0:58:21 Anyways, I have found that with a partner that they are forced to go through
0:58:24 to change their complexion and approach to life
0:58:28 because they take sometimes a disproportionate
0:58:31 unfair amount of responsibility around the kids.
0:58:32 But you’ve been very dense with your time.
0:58:34 I just have one more question.
0:58:35 You have a very public profile.
0:58:39 It’s impossible to have your profile and put yourself out there
0:58:44 is openly and is provocatively on issues this important
0:58:48 and without getting a lot of criticism.
0:58:50 How do you deal with criticism?
0:58:54 And what advice would you be in terms of a practice for how to handle?
0:58:56 Be thoughtful, right?
0:59:00 Anyone who is immune to criticism, I wouldn’t trust.
0:59:03 I’d be like, okay, I think that makes you a sociopath.
0:59:06 So how do you deal with criticism?
0:59:11 One thing I’ve learned just by observing and having the fortune
0:59:16 of coaching people who are far more successful, famous, and accomplished than I am
0:59:20 is that the closer you get to the top 1%,
0:59:23 the more likely you are to have 50% of people disagree with you.
0:59:27 So if you look at the most prominent positions in society,
0:59:33 you take the president, chances are close to 50% of the country disagrees with you, right?
0:59:36 So you look at the more someone gets into the top 1% athletes,
0:59:39 you look at athletes.
0:59:42 It’s like you look at Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi.
0:59:44 You get 50% on either side.
0:59:46 You get Kendrick Lamar and Drake.
0:59:48 You get 50% on either side.
0:59:52 Like it’s very hard to be the 1% of your industry
0:59:56 or the world in case of these people that I’m talking about
0:59:58 and not have 50% of people disagree with you.
1:00:03 So I think the first step is recognizing that the closer you get to the 1%,
1:00:06 the more chance it is that 50% of people are going to have an issue with you.
1:00:10 So I think everyone remembers as an early stage creator
1:00:12 when you kind of had 100,000 followers
1:00:15 and your comment section was La La Land, right?
1:00:18 You lived in this little bubble where everyone loved you.
1:00:19 Everyone said wonderful things.
1:00:22 Things were beautiful and then you got to a million followers
1:00:24 and then that changed proportionately
1:00:27 and then you got to 10 million and it changed and whatever else it may be.
1:00:28 So that’s the first thing.
1:00:31 We have to look at it realistically, statistically
1:00:35 and realize it’s not personal, it’s math.
1:00:36 That’s the first step.
1:00:42 The second thing is how can I take feedback without the sting?
1:00:49 And this is an art that I was really grateful to learn in the monastery
1:00:51 which was this, the quality of humility.
1:00:52 What does humility really mean?
1:00:57 Humility doesn’t mean I’m weak and I’m not good enough
1:00:58 and that’s low self-esteem.
1:01:06 Humility means I have the ability to extract that which is beneficial for me
1:01:10 and leave that which is hurtful and poisonous.
1:01:14 Can I actually have the ability to listen to something,
1:01:18 to consume something that may be really hurtful
1:01:24 but extract the minimal truth in it that may inspire me, that may make me better
1:01:29 and leave behind the part that was venomous or poisonous.
1:01:34 And I try and do that as much as I can when I see anything.
1:01:37 I’m always like where is the truth in that?
1:01:39 What can I take from that?
1:01:42 What is there about that that can actually improve my character from?
1:01:48 And let me leave behind the negativity, the venom, the envy.
1:01:52 Sure, I’m sure it’s covered in envy, ego, competition.
1:01:55 I’m sure it’s covered in all these things but the skill of humility
1:02:00 is the ability to leave all that stuff behind and extract and see if I can work on myself.
1:02:04 And the third thing is to
1:02:15 be really careful about having a group of people who truly know you,
1:02:19 who deeply know you, who intimately know you,
1:02:21 making sure that you’re not lonely at the top.
1:02:28 I’ve seen that for so many people, the cliche is true, people are lonely at the top
1:02:32 because they don’t make friends with people that go through similar things.
1:02:37 Most people who are at the top will make friends only with their childhood friends,
1:02:38 which is great, I love my childhood friends.
1:02:44 But my childhood friends can’t relate to what I go through at this stage in my life.
1:02:48 So I have to have friends in the similar industry in a similar space
1:02:52 to actually be able to share what we’re going through.
1:02:54 And if those people know me intimately,
1:02:59 those are also the people who can remind me of who I truly am, why I started, why I’m here.
1:03:03 And to me, that is the most powerful investment you can make.
1:03:06 The biggest mistake you can make is to think because you’re number one,
1:03:09 you don’t need anyone else around you.
1:03:13 And by the way, back in the day, 25 years ago,
1:03:14 people were pit against each other.
1:03:18 They were told, you can be the only successful black man in Hollywood.
1:03:21 You can be the only successful woman in this field.
1:03:22 People were told things like that.
1:03:30 And I think that naturally made people disconnect and not build friendships in their zone of genius.
1:03:35 So I would encourage people to make friends in their zone of genius and deep intimate friends
1:03:39 because chances are that’s the only person who knows what it feels like.
1:03:44 And so that’s how I think about it in those three areas again.
1:03:48 And by the way, my biggest takeaway on all of that is,
1:03:56 it’s so wonderful to be detached through criticism,
1:03:59 to praise and ego and your own height.
1:04:02 If it doesn’t offer any other value,
1:04:08 it offers the value to remind you that you do this only for the reason you do it for.
1:04:10 You get joy from the fact that you’re doing it because you believe in it.
1:04:14 And that from a very spiritual perspective,
1:04:17 you don’t get to take your fame with you.
1:04:18 You don’t get to take the money with you.
1:04:22 You don’t get to take the accolades with you.
1:04:24 And no one’s even going to remember any of that.
1:04:27 So the universe is just preparing you to be detached from things
1:04:29 that are going to be taken from you anyway.
1:04:32 So why not learn to be detached while they’re still here?
1:04:35 Rather than wait till the moment they’re all snatched away
1:04:40 and then try and grab a hold of them and scrap with them.
1:04:42 Why not embrace your own insignificance
1:04:45 before you truly become insignificant and irrelevant?
1:04:46 And so it gives you a glimpse of that.
1:04:50 It gives you a really beautiful spiritual ego death and glimpse of that,
1:04:53 which materially is the worst thing to go through
1:04:56 and spiritually is the most beautiful, fulfilling thing to go through.
1:04:58 Yeah, I like that.
1:05:00 Embrace your insignificance in a healthy way.
1:05:03 Jay Shetty is a global best-selling author, entrepreneur,
1:05:06 and the host of the world’s number one mental health podcast on purpose.
1:05:09 Born in London, Jay embarked on a transformative journey
1:05:12 as a Hindu monk before merging ancient wisdom with the digital world.
1:05:15 His podcast on purpose with Jay Shetty chops the charts
1:05:17 as one of the world’s leading podcasts
1:05:19 with over 35 million monthly downloads and features.
1:05:24 Influential gas, basically, you name it.
1:05:25 I won’t even go through all of these.
1:05:29 And he also has several best-selling books.
1:05:32 He joins us from his home in Los Angeles.
1:05:33 Jay, I really enjoyed this.
1:05:38 You’re sort of like entering into this dream-like state
1:05:39 when I listen to you.
1:05:42 I’m listening, but I just find a sense of calm
1:05:45 about the rhythm and the cadence.
1:05:47 You’re really a joy to listen to.
1:05:51 I appreciate your time and am really happy for all your success
1:05:53 and thank you, I think you deserve it.
1:05:56 This episode was produced by Jennifer Sanchez.
1:05:58 Our intern is Dan Shalon.
1:06:00 Drew Burroughs is our technical director.
1:06:02 Thank you for listening to the PropG Pod
1:06:04 from the Vox Media Podcast Network.
1:06:07 We will catch you on Saturday for No Mercenome Mouse,
1:06:08 as read by George Hahn.
1:06:10 And please follow our PropG Markets Pod
1:06:12 wherever you get your pods
1:06:14 for new episodes every Monday and Thursday.
1:06:17 (upbeat music)
1:06:26 [BLANK_AUDIO]

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0:00:25 Get the CFO’s guide to AI and machine learning
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0:00:38 and I come to you with big stars in big dramas
0:00:42 like Gladiator 2, Dexter, Original Sin, and 1923.
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0:00:51 Prize.
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0:00:55 and you could win one of millions of prize
0:00:58 like a cash prize, gift card prize, rewards prize,
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0:01:13 Chances of winning based on code entry time.
0:01:14 Rules and app.
0:01:18 – Welcome to Office Hours of PropG.
0:01:20 This is the part of the show where we answer questions
0:01:21 about business, vector, entrepreneurship,
0:01:22 and whatever else is on your mind.
0:01:25 If you’d like to submit a question,
0:01:26 please email a voice recording
0:01:28 to officehours@propgmedia.com.
0:01:31 Again, that’s officehours@propgmedia.com.
0:01:32 So with that, first question,
0:01:35 and also I have not heard or seen these questions.
0:01:40 – Hi, Professor Galloway.
0:01:42 Thank you for your time.
0:01:43 My name is Mike.
0:01:44 I’m 35 years old.
0:01:47 I live on Long Island in Nassau County.
0:01:51 I have a modest job and my wife’s a teacher in Brooklyn.
0:01:53 My question is, what will happen to the value
0:01:56 of my limited wealth and that of other Americans
0:01:59 that don’t have Bitcoin when the US buys a strategic reserve
0:02:01 and there’s more widespread adoption?
0:02:04 Will the value of my retirement portfolio collapse?
0:02:05 I’m worried about losing everything
0:02:07 in my family falling behind.
0:02:09 I feel like I’m gambling on which currency
0:02:13 will be more prevalent or even exist in 20 to 30 years.
0:02:15 What should we do?
0:02:15 Thanks.
0:02:18 – Hi, Mike from Long Island.
0:02:22 So you’re 35, sounds like you’re in a good relationship.
0:02:23 You both are working.
0:02:26 Your wife’s doing something important as a teacher.
0:02:29 So the first thing is to recognize you’re young.
0:02:30 Sounds like you’re in love.
0:02:31 You’re both employed.
0:02:33 Things are pretty good for you.
0:02:36 So okay, so the honest answer to your question
0:02:37 is nobody knows.
0:02:40 I talked to Michael Saylor and when I leave his,
0:02:41 I had lunch with him.
0:02:42 When I leave the lunch,
0:02:43 I think I should put everything into Bitcoin.
0:02:44 And then an hour later, I’m like,
0:02:45 “Wait, what is Bitcoin again?”
0:02:49 Anyway, so the bottom is nobody knows.
0:02:51 Trump recently announced that his administration
0:02:52 will be considering the creation
0:02:55 of a national digital asset stockpile.
0:02:58 Well, this really isn’t quite a strategic reserve.
0:02:59 It could still have a massive impact
0:03:01 on America’s involvement with cryptocurrencies,
0:03:03 specifically if the US government weighs in
0:03:05 and buys a shit ton, the price would go up.
0:03:07 Currently, America holds more Bitcoin
0:03:08 than any other government
0:03:10 as a result of large scale asset seizures,
0:03:12 about 5 billion as of 2023.
0:03:14 Even so, they’ve sold none of it.
0:03:16 Countries including Germany, Hong Kong,
0:03:18 Russia, Brazil and Poland are all taking steps
0:03:21 to review Bitcoin as a reserve asset.
0:03:23 In the past 10 years, Bitcoin is up over,
0:03:26 Jesus Christ, 48,000%.
0:03:29 In the past year, it’s up 140% since the election,
0:03:30 it’s up 50%.
0:03:32 So, okay, what do you do?
0:03:34 The genius of Bitcoin in my mind
0:03:37 is they’ve come up with this incredible means
0:03:41 of creating a somewhat credible sense of scarcity.
0:03:42 What do I mean by that?
0:03:45 We keep printing more dollars that we’ve had inflation,
0:03:48 so you could argue that the value of the dollar
0:03:50 goes down every year.
0:03:52 You know, I bought a house,
0:03:56 every house I bought 30 years ago is worth,
0:03:57 I wish I’d never sold it,
0:03:59 is worth six to 10 times what I bought it for,
0:04:00 more than inflation.
0:04:03 Is that because the asset’s got them in value
0:04:04 and it’s producing more rent?
0:04:07 No, it’s because there are more dollars chasing
0:04:10 fewer assets, that’s the definition of inflation.
0:04:12 Or simply put, the dollars you throw into your mattress
0:04:14 get worth less and less every year,
0:04:16 because we keep producing more of them.
0:04:19 Bitcoin has created this credible feeling
0:04:22 that because of the algorithm or the structure
0:04:26 where it requires more and more numbers to be thrown
0:04:29 at an algorithm or at a math problem,
0:04:31 that it takes more energy, it limits the supply,
0:04:33 and they say they’re gonna stop mining Bitcoin
0:04:35 at 21 million coins.
0:04:37 And the market believes it, so the market says,
0:04:40 all right, this is a credible store of value
0:04:43 and a place to hedge inflation.
0:04:45 It’s also a place to hedge currency risk
0:04:47 if you’re in Argentina and your pesos
0:04:49 are worth 30% less every month.
0:04:51 You immediately get them and there’s currency controls,
0:04:53 meaning you can’t trade it for dollars,
0:04:55 you immediately go into Bitcoin.
0:04:58 So there is real use cases here, right?
0:04:59 It’s not a payment system.
0:05:02 I’ve never been paid or paid anyone in Bitcoin.
0:05:03 I don’t see this having a lot of utility.
0:05:08 I just don’t use the blockchain, call me old fashioned.
0:05:10 So the question is, what do you do?
0:05:13 I think it’s highly unlikely and I wouldn’t bring your hands
0:05:15 too much or spend too much time worrying
0:05:17 that your assets are gonna go to zero
0:05:21 because of Bitcoin and the America’s decision
0:05:24 or not decision to create a strategic reserve of Bitcoin.
0:05:28 Well, you might wanna do is maybe put two, three,
0:05:31 4% of your net worth into Bitcoin.
0:05:32 That way you’re a little bit hedged
0:05:34 and if it does go up two, three, 10 fold,
0:05:37 you feel as if you’ve participated in the upside.
0:05:41 I would not go all in on this much less really anyone asset.
0:05:43 If you’re making some money,
0:05:45 my guess is your wife has good benefits.
0:05:47 You max out your 401k,
0:05:48 anything that’s matched or tax deferred,
0:05:49 try and match that out,
0:05:52 try and get money taken out of your paycheck
0:05:54 so it’s never in your hands
0:05:55 and make sure you’re diversified
0:05:57 and in low cost index fund.
0:06:00 So if you’re worried about crypto
0:06:01 or you think that in fact,
0:06:04 it’s going to be something that might take off,
0:06:05 put a little bit of money in,
0:06:08 don’t put all three or 4% or 5% in at one time,
0:06:11 dollar cost in because it’s a highly volatile asset.
0:06:13 But if you want to hedge a little bit
0:06:15 against the upside or the downside
0:06:17 of your current portfolio, then yeah,
0:06:19 put a little bit of your money into,
0:06:21 I would just probably do Bitcoin.
0:06:23 I think some of the other shit coins are just too volatile
0:06:25 and you end up staring your phone all day.
0:06:27 But sure, dip your toe if you think,
0:06:29 if that’s going to make you feel a little bit better,
0:06:31 but I wouldn’t lose sleep thinking
0:06:33 that all other assets are going to crash.
0:06:35 Thanks for your question.
0:06:37 Question number two.
0:06:39 – Hi, Prof. G. I’m Peter from Boston.
0:06:41 I got my first job out of school
0:06:43 nearly four years ago at a small firm
0:06:45 and for the first time I’m looking to change positions
0:06:48 to a larger company with a deeper talent pool
0:06:50 for mentorship and better growth opportunities.
0:06:51 In my current role,
0:06:54 I was able to take on a lot of responsibility early on
0:06:56 due to the fact that we were a small team
0:06:58 and grew rapidly since I started.
0:06:59 As someone who has been
0:07:01 on the other end of the hiring process,
0:07:02 do you have any advice on how to stand out
0:07:05 when my experience and abilities are greater
0:07:08 than what the number of years on my resume might suggest?
0:07:09 To phrase another way,
0:07:11 how do I know if I’m just a big fish
0:07:13 in a small pond aiming too high?
0:07:14 Thanks for your time.
0:07:16 – Everyone thinks they’re,
0:07:17 well, thanks for the question.
0:07:18 Everyone thinks they’re aiming too high
0:07:19 until they hit the target.
0:07:22 I’ve never been qualified to do anything I’ve ever done.
0:07:23 I wasn’t qualified to get a job at Morgan Stanley.
0:07:25 I definitely wasn’t qualified to get into business school.
0:07:26 I wasn’t qualified to start a strategy.
0:07:29 I’ve never been qualified to do anything I’ve ever done.
0:07:32 So just put that away thinking that you’re aiming too high.
0:07:33 You may not hit the target.
0:07:35 You may apply to be a VP somewhere
0:07:37 and they say, “Sorry, you really aren’t qualified.”
0:07:40 But the way you do this is you start interviewing.
0:07:44 And the easiest questions are the hardest to answer.
0:07:47 And that is, you know what they’re going to ask you.
0:07:48 Why should we hire you?
0:07:50 What’s different about you, right?
0:07:53 What do you bring to this company that’s unique?
0:07:55 Yeah, why do you want to work here?
0:07:58 And what do you do to try and improve
0:08:00 your, you know, your sustainable advantage
0:08:03 or these assets that are differentiated, right?
0:08:05 In sum, what differentiates you?
0:08:07 Why is it relevant to us?
0:08:08 And how do you, what practices
0:08:10 or what do you do that makes it sustainable?
0:08:12 So you literally want to show up
0:08:15 and kind of act like they’d be crazy not to hire you, right?
0:08:18 I also find it kind of a hack in interviewing
0:08:19 to get the person to like you
0:08:21 because a lot of this is based on relationships
0:08:23 and how they feel about you after the interview
0:08:25 is start asking them questions.
0:08:28 People are narcissists or they’re self-involved
0:08:30 and they love talking about myself.
0:08:33 So Lisa, how did you get involved at Salesforce?
0:08:36 Or, you know, what do you like about working here?
0:08:39 Or when you look at my skills, what do you think?
0:08:41 Do you think I’d be a good fit here?
0:08:44 So, you know, what you want to figure out
0:08:46 and you want to be confident is to say, okay,
0:08:47 I think I’d be great at this,
0:08:50 but is this the right fit for me?
0:08:51 You know, start asking them questions.
0:08:53 Who does really well at Salesforce?
0:08:56 Or I’m just using that as an example.
0:08:58 But the key here is you, you know,
0:08:59 you miss all the shots you don’t take,
0:09:02 just start interviewing and find out
0:09:05 if in fact you’re in that weight class.
0:09:09 But circling back, you know, everyone’s an imposter.
0:09:11 Everybody thinks they’ve fooled people, not everybody.
0:09:12 Most people think they’ve fooled people
0:09:15 when they get the job or get into graduate school
0:09:17 or get a high character boyfriend or girlfriend.
0:09:19 So, yeah, aim high.
0:09:22 If you miss, don’t take it too seriously, keep aiming.
0:09:24 And if you really want to see what your currency
0:09:26 is in the marketplace, then go into the marketplace
0:09:27 and try and start interviewing.
0:09:29 Thanks for the question.
0:09:31 We have one quick break before our final question.
0:09:32 Stay with us.
0:09:40 Support for Prop G comes from Domo.
0:09:42 A lot of people think that data is just cold hard facts
0:09:44 about as impersonal as you can get.
0:09:46 But wouldn’t it be great if you could ask your data
0:09:49 anything at any time, like how are sales this quarter?
0:09:51 Or how’s the new marketing campaign performing?
0:09:54 Or what does the overall health of the company look like?
0:09:57 And what if that data could get you those answers right away,
0:10:00 complete with charts and graphics and actionable information?
0:10:03 Well, with Domo’s AI and data products platform,
0:10:04 you can get just that.
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0:11:17 – We’re taking Box Media Podcast on the road
0:11:18 and heading back to Austin
0:11:20 for the South by Southwest Festival,
0:11:21 March 8th to the 10th.
0:11:23 What is real?
0:11:26 We’ll be doing special live episodes of hit shows,
0:11:27 including Pivot, that’s right.
0:11:30 That dog’s going to the great state of Texas.
0:11:31 Where should we begin?
0:11:34 With Esther Perel, a Touch More with Sue Bird
0:11:38 and Megan Rapinoe, not just football with Cam Hayward
0:11:41 and more, presented by Smartsheet.
0:11:43 The Box Media Podcast stage at South by Southwest
0:11:46 is open to all South by Southwest badge holders.
0:11:49 We hope to see you at the Austin Convention Center soon.
0:11:53 Visit voxmedia.com/sxsw to learn more.
0:11:57 That’s voxmedia.com/sxsw.
0:12:00 (upbeat music)
0:12:07 – Welcome back, question number three.
0:12:10 – Hey, ProfG, I’m Josh, a 27-year-old from Mexico
0:12:13 working in marketing for a large multinational company.
0:12:15 Thank you for everything you do.
0:12:17 Your content really inspires and helps my day-to-day,
0:12:19 so I really appreciate it.
0:12:21 Sadly, my father passed away last year
0:12:25 in getting with an inheritance that I will just receive.
0:12:27 This has left me with a financial question.
0:12:30 My first thought was to buy two apartments,
0:12:32 since it’s money that I didn’t really work for
0:12:35 and see it as securing something my dad left me.
0:12:38 However, I know today, renting and investing the money
0:12:40 in the market make more sense.
0:12:42 This would also leave me the opportunity
0:12:45 to use the money for a grad school if I needed it,
0:12:47 since I know it’s something that could boost my career.
0:12:50 I’ve been lucky enough to land a job that makes good money
0:12:52 and have advanced quickly in the corporate world.
0:12:55 So my question is, what’s your stance
0:12:57 on renting versus buying, and what would you do
0:12:59 if you were a 27-year-old male
0:13:02 that suddenly received a lump sum like this?
0:13:05 Again, thank you for your thoughts and all the content.
0:13:06 Cheers.
0:13:08 – So the first thing you wanna do
0:13:13 is you wanna put it in a bond fund or a treasury fund
0:13:15 that’s getting four and a half or 5% right now.
0:13:18 If it’s $100,000, that’s 5,000 a year,
0:13:21 low risk or no risk, so you’re getting $400 a month,
0:13:22 but don’t just let it sit there.
0:13:26 Put it into some sort of, you know, T-bill fund
0:13:27 or what do they call it, certificate of deposit,
0:13:28 whatever you wanna call it.
0:13:31 Basically, if you put money in at Interactive Brokers
0:13:34 or Schwab, I think you get between four and 5%
0:13:36 while you’re trying to figure this out.
0:13:38 Okay, so in terms of where to put it,
0:13:41 you wanna lean into your advantage.
0:13:44 If you understand the local real estate market
0:13:48 and you or someone in your life could manage those apartments
0:13:49 and you’re scrappy and maybe know
0:13:51 how to fix up an apartment,
0:13:53 buying real estate, fixing it up
0:13:55 and turning it into rental properties
0:13:58 is a fantastic way to build wealth slowly.
0:14:03 I own almost 30 rental units in Delray Beach, Florida
0:14:05 and they’ve been one of my best investments.
0:14:09 It’s obviously a lot about when you buy, where you buy,
0:14:11 and I bought in Florida when no one else wanted to buy,
0:14:13 which is the time you wanna buy
0:14:15 ’cause prices were really, really low.
0:14:17 I bought these things for about an average of 100,
0:14:19 sometimes 120,000.
0:14:22 They produce really good rental income
0:14:25 and my guess is they’ve tripled in value since then,
0:14:26 but I don’t wanna sell them.
0:14:28 I wanna have cash flow as I get older.
0:14:32 So I think rental units, if you have some advantage,
0:14:34 do you understand the local market so you don’t overpay?
0:14:36 Do you have the ability to manage them?
0:14:40 Do you have some skills to improve them, to upgrade them?
0:14:43 Otherwise, you’d be better off just buying REITs
0:14:44 than managing your own real estate
0:14:45 ’cause there really is some headache
0:14:48 around managing these things.
0:14:51 I would suggest, and if you don’t have those advantages
0:14:52 or market knowledge around real estate,
0:14:53 that you just take the money
0:14:56 and you put it in low-cost ETFs.
0:14:59 Not only SBY or QQQ the NASDAQ,
0:15:02 but start thinking about maybe putting half of it even
0:15:06 in some sort of diversified, low-cost world index
0:15:08 sans the U.S.
0:15:09 Why do I say that?
0:15:11 The U.S. has become very expensive
0:15:13 and while, I mean, what do you know?
0:15:15 You want low-cost, you want diversification,
0:15:17 you want an index fund or an ETF,
0:15:19 but you’re still, to a certain extent,
0:15:22 trying to find alpha and pick stuff.
0:15:26 So even though you’re picking all of the S&P with SPY,
0:15:28 I think the S&P, I would argue,
0:15:31 is historically expensive, maybe even overvalued.
0:15:32 I was with a buddy of mine
0:15:36 who runs Private Wealth for JPMorgan
0:15:37 and he was saying, I said,
0:15:39 the market cap of the U.S. right now
0:15:43 is equivalent to half of the total market cap of the globe.
0:15:45 And he said, actually, it’s worse than that
0:15:46 ’cause if you counter in debt,
0:15:48 70% of the capital markets are in the U.S.
0:15:52 So if you add up the money corporations have borrowed
0:15:55 and U.S. borrowing, or consumer borrowing,
0:15:57 plus the value of our stock market,
0:16:00 70% of the value is supposedly registered in the U.S.
0:16:04 So if someone said to you, you can buy the U.S. for $70
0:16:07 or you can buy the rest of the world for $30,
0:16:08 I would argue there’s more upside
0:16:11 to buying the rest of the world for $30.
0:16:14 So I would use a robot advisor to spend some time on AI
0:16:18 and say I want low cost index funds.
0:16:22 And I also wanna make sure that I’m not only diversified
0:16:26 within the U.S. but I’m diversified to a certain extent
0:16:28 around my investments from the U.S.
0:16:31 But low cost ETFs or index funds.
0:16:34 Also, it sounds if you’re doing well,
0:16:39 I’d be reticent or careful to blow that money
0:16:41 or invest that money in grad school
0:16:43 unless you really think it’s gonna pay off
0:16:46 because you’ve been given a gift from your father,
0:16:48 his hard work, his time.
0:16:51 And at your young age at 27,
0:16:55 I don’t know, say it’s $50,000.
0:16:56 By the time you’re 67,
0:16:59 which will happen much faster than you think
0:17:01 with a low cost ETF,
0:17:05 you’re probably gonna have a really nice nest egg
0:17:07 or something to fall back on.
0:17:09 So, and I would imagine that’s what your father wanted.
0:17:10 So I’m not saying don’t invest in yourself,
0:17:11 don’t go to grad school,
0:17:15 but maybe be very selective if you’re doing well
0:17:18 at your job and make sure you can get some financial aid.
0:17:20 Just because I hate to see kids
0:17:23 borrow a lot of money or spend a ton of money on grad school
0:17:26 when it may not provide the pop that they’re anticipating.
0:17:27 Then that never used to be an issue.
0:17:28 It always used to be worth it.
0:17:31 Now you actually have to do the math.
0:17:32 Let me back up.
0:17:35 This is a really good problem.
0:17:37 Congratulations to you, but again, low cost ETFs.
0:17:42 And I would do say 50, 60% US, 40% international.
0:17:43 If you wanna lean into real estate,
0:17:44 make sure you know what you’re doing
0:17:47 and you have some advantages there.
0:17:48 But again, this is a good problem.
0:17:50 And I’m sorry about your father’s passing.
0:17:52 It’s something we all deal with,
0:17:54 but it’s something I don’t think any of us are prepared for.
0:17:56 It’s heartbreaking when it happens.
0:17:58 So I’m sorry about your dad.
0:18:01 That’s all for this episode.
0:18:03 If you’d like to submit a question,
0:18:04 please email a voice recording
0:18:06 to OfficeHouras@PropertyMedia.com.
0:18:09 Again, that’s OfficeHouras@PropertyMedia.com.
0:18:21 This episode was produced by Jennifer Sanchez.
0:18:23 Our intern is Dan Shalon.
0:18:25 Drew Burroughs is our technical director.
0:18:27 Thank you for listening to the “Property Pod”
0:18:29 from the Vox Media Podcast Network.
0:18:30 We will catch you on Saturday
0:18:33 for “No Mercer No Mouse” as read by George Hahn.
0:18:35 And please follow our “Property Markets” pod
0:18:38 wherever you get your pods for new episodes
0:18:39 every Monday and Thursday.
0:18:42 (upbeat music)

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0:01:15 behold my name is Maximus entertain us and I come to you with big stars in big
0:01:22 dramas like gladiator to Dexter original sin and 1923 stream paramount plus for
0:01:28 699 a month welcome to raging moderates I’m Jessica Tarlow I’m Tim Miller Tim
0:01:34 this is the banter section how are you hey banter I’m just happy to be in here
0:01:39 for Scott you know I think that I’m gonna be a downgrade in certain manners and
0:01:44 upgrade in hair you know we’ll see what the what the people think we will see
0:01:46 what the people think I think they’ll be excited to see if they were super
0:01:49 excited when you joined us but we were together all three of us it was fun it’s
0:01:54 good I mean I’d rather be raging with you guys than I don’t maybe you have a
0:01:58 view on this I think not raging with the dams on the hill I don’t I’m not
0:02:03 feeling a raging yes no democratic snoozing yeah I’d rather be raging with
0:02:09 the moderates than snoozing with the progs heavy for the banter section no
0:02:13 no I’m good with it you want to talk about Marty ground times no I don’t want
0:02:16 to talk about I mean if you want to talk about Marty ground hiding in your
0:02:23 house we could do that but do you really think that they’re snoozing or we’re not
0:02:28 paying attention it’s a good question I think that they are doing a lot of stuff
0:02:35 that people who are who read hill newsletters and who like care and who
0:02:39 know a lot about what’s happening in the federal government I think they are
0:02:46 seeing Democrats I think that anyone who’s a casual observer of politics is
0:02:51 seeing only Donald Trump and Yvonne Musk and Travis and Taylor I think that’s
0:02:54 like the material that they’re giving and so I don’t know if they’re
0:02:59 snoozing so much as they’re not yelling you know and I feel like they could
0:03:04 probably benefit from some yelling that resonates outside of yelling is the
0:03:12 trick for that one because I have seen some yelling and I have hated it in the
0:03:18 right kind of context you know I’m open to singing and chance but you know maybe
0:03:23 maybe we could work on the language of the chance a little bit yeah we’re
0:03:27 getting lapsed by the YMCA so you got to think about that we’ve given I the gays
0:03:30 gave away YMCA well you don’t even want it back I know I made it official it was
0:03:34 a long it was not a you know it was it was not a battle in the culture where
0:03:39 we expected but it was a battle that was thrust upon us and I think for a
0:03:44 moment during the Biden era we had felt like we’d taken YMCA back from the
0:03:49 magas and unfortunately I think that is one L we just have to take it’s over now
0:03:54 and the village people in YMCA despite the fact that that is a song about
0:03:58 cruising in gay gyms the magas have taken it from us and I don’t think we’re
0:04:01 ever gonna get it back it’s unfortunate I don’t think you’re gonna hear a lot of
0:04:07 YMCA at gay pride this year no probably not abracadabra by Lady Gaga instead I
0:04:09 think you’ll be hearing a lot of abracadabra it’s a pretty good upgrade I
0:04:14 think so did you watch any of the SNL 50 stuff I was in and out I was watching
0:04:19 White Lotus and I was you know podcast prepping so I caught a little bit of it
0:04:24 I really liked a couple of the Eddie Murphy segments Eddie Murphy being
0:04:30 Tracy Morgan was hilarious Eddie Murphy doing some borderline inappropriate
0:04:34 prison rape jokes with Will Ferrell and like one of the very last segments I
0:04:38 also really liked those are my big takeaways prison rape is always a
0:04:43 highlight I said multiple times to my husband that I can’t believe this show
0:04:47 is happening like if it weren’t the SNL 50 there’s no way these jokes would have
0:04:50 made it in but I’m pretty sure everybody showed up and they were like we are not
0:04:55 playing by 2025 standards we’re playing by whatever year we were actually on the
0:05:01 show and it was a lot of it was hilarious but I was overwhelmed by
0:05:05 Cher I don’t know if you saw these shots of like Kevin Costner losing his mind
0:05:10 and Billy Crystal watching this 78-year-old woman look like a 30-year-old
0:05:14 woman belting out if I could turn back time which I think the gaze still we
0:05:24 still have and now to the show and I’m keeping us on time which is not Scott
0:05:29 strong suit so how’d I do in the banters I think you did great I don’t know we’ll
0:05:33 see okay so in today’s episode of raging moderates we are discussing Trump’s plan
0:05:37 to end the war in Ukraine Trump’s lifeline to Eric Adams and the state of
0:05:42 anti-Trump Republicans your specialty all right let’s get into it big moves on
0:05:46 the world stage last week Trump says he had a highly productive call with
0:05:50 Vladimir Putin claiming that they’re now working closely on a Ukraine peace deal
0:05:55 he even floated the idea of a future sit-down with Putin this all came after
0:05:58 Russia released American teacher Mark Fogle which Trump called a quote sign of
0:06:04 good faith meanwhile Kiev is on edge after a drone strike hit Chernobyl just
0:06:07 days after Zelensky asked the US for more aid and in Europe leaders are
0:06:11 scrambling an emergency summit is set for Monday so that’s today so by tomorrow
0:06:15 you may have an update a man fears that Trump’s outreach to Russia is leaving
0:06:19 them isolated UK Prime Minister Kier Starmer called it a once in a
0:06:23 generation security moment vice president JD Vance warned that Russia could face
0:06:27 economic and military pressure if it doesn’t negotiate in good faith but in
0:06:31 Munich he took aim at European leaders instead claiming their real threat isn’t
0:06:35 Russia or China it’s their own policies on free speech and refusal to work with
0:06:40 the hard-right parties in government back at home not much better the White
0:06:43 House is clashing with the press again this time banning an AP reporter from
0:06:48 the Oval Office for refusing to call the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of America the
0:06:53 AP is now accusing the administration of violating the first amendment let’s talk
0:06:59 Ukraine first what do you think the game here is I mean you can start with Pete
0:07:04 Hague Seth’s maiden voyage which did not go well and he’s walking things back
0:07:11 within 24 hours but what do you think Rubio and Trump and Vance want for
0:07:15 Ukraine well as a I guess cradle neocon I don’t know if the neocons exist anymore
0:07:20 I have a ton of thoughts about this I first just really quick because this I
0:07:23 think it’s got lost and I’m obsessed with the crypto element of everything that’s
0:07:27 happening the hostage trade or we’re gonna call it mark Fogel very happy
0:07:33 Fogel’s back that’s great news but what got missed was the person that got let out
0:07:39 on our side was like one of the original crypto scammers who was running a
0:07:46 massive crypto scam that allowed Russia to you know avert sanctions you know by
0:07:50 by paying for things you know using using crypto rather than you know cash and
0:07:54 going through the regular banking system I only say that just because I just
0:07:59 everybody should just like make a mental note of that because I think that the
0:08:04 crypto corruption that is coming over the next four years might end up being one
0:08:08 of the biggest stories that happen bigger than the Trump coin it’s
0:08:11 interesting well it’s related the Trump quite it’s all related right like I
0:08:17 mean I think that that’s how people can manage it well they just say okay we
0:08:21 know he’s a grifter who does things like this but it’s so much bigger than that
0:08:25 and the trade wasn’t publicized at all it took days for anyone to know if we
0:08:30 got if we had to trade anything for Mark Fogel yeah for sure and so obviously
0:08:33 they’re bad people getting traded and all these things like Victor boot got
0:08:36 traded during the Biden administration so I and I’m happy Mark Fogel is home so
0:08:40 it’s like less a commentary on like the particular trade than just like it’s
0:08:43 interesting where the priorities work like that the first Russian person out
0:08:49 is this crypto scammer person doing the deal Steve Whitcoff his son is business
0:08:55 partners with the Trump kids on their crypto scam right so like that’s not a
0:08:59 coincidence all right I’m not I’m not the always sunny guy putting yarn against
0:09:03 the wall here like it’s a pretty direct connection directly to Trump’s pocket so
0:09:10 anyway the broader deal I mean like the sad part about this is that just like we
0:09:13 appear to be on the side of the bad guys I mean I think that JD did some tough
0:09:18 talk but what is happening is we have this meeting in Saudi that you referenced
0:09:23 the Ukrainians aren’t even invited like we’re having a bilateral with the
0:09:29 Russians who invaded Ukraine and who we are sanctioning currently to try to cut
0:09:34 a deal that Ukraine isn’t even at the table for and Europe is having a separate
0:09:37 you know that the Europeans are having a separate meeting at the same time as you
0:09:41 mentioned Kirsten we’re like the UK is out there saying we’re gonna put boots on
0:09:46 the ground if necessary peacekeeping troops to support Ukraine and so like in
0:09:50 this moment like we’re giving some mixed signals from the White House but
0:09:56 directionally most of the signals are that we are sympathetic to the invaders
0:10:01 to the autocrats to the people that are we’re attacking a free democratic
0:10:05 country like this you know whatever you thought bad about American foreign
0:10:11 policy in the past like this is like a massive shift like this is not just a
0:10:15 bad judgment call it’s like it’s the fact that it seems like that we’re
0:10:20 supporting you know the countries that are in conflict with what the American
0:10:25 values have been in the post-World War II era so like at the top level like that
0:10:28 is the thing to me that’s the most striking and when you looked at these
0:10:33 press conferences both Hegseth and Trump can’t remember if answers asked this but
0:10:36 definitely Hegseth and Trump were asked you know as part of these
0:10:40 negotiations what are you asking Russia to give up and neither of them could
0:10:44 answer I get Hegseth gives like a two minutes of gobbledygook because you
0:10:48 know that he couldn’t come up with anything and Trump starts attacking
0:10:52 Europe during the answer to that question and so I think that kind of
0:10:55 tells you all you need to know yeah I think there was something about shooting
0:11:00 values and that you can’t do that and Pete’s answer I can’t really get to
0:11:04 calling him Secretary Hegseth yet I’m still in in Pete mode you and Pete
0:11:13 pals did you guys not drinking buddies we we have socialized but no comment no I
0:11:17 totally agree with you and one thing that’s been sticking out to me is how
0:11:24 quickly everybody has folded from who they were beforehand because at least I
0:11:28 was holding on to the idea I know I know Mike Waltz really well the National
0:11:32 Security Advisor were in a foreign policy group together Marco Rubio has been
0:11:38 very clear about his foreign policy views for a long time and I don’t think
0:11:43 any of either of those two would have ever thought that they would be part of
0:11:48 the deal that was going to essentially tell Ukraine you have no future in NATO
0:11:51 and you’re never getting back your territory I mean even for getting the
0:11:57 pre-2014 lines even from just a few years ago and maybe that speaks to the
0:12:01 awesome power of Trump maybe that speaks to the new realignment within the
0:12:07 Republican Party but I don’t see anyone in positions of power now that are going
0:12:13 to be holding on to traditional American views of foreign policy in our role in
0:12:17 the world no I mean Rubio has been basically a full-throated defender of
0:12:23 the Trump push on this and and that pivot for him has been you know kind of
0:12:28 happening gradually over time since 2016 when he was you know kind of the
0:12:33 candidate that was running you know the most maybe even more than chev like the
0:12:38 most W with like the most Bush compassionate conservatism like type
0:12:43 platform of any of the candidates and so you know no who knows what how things
0:12:49 actually go I guess it’s better that Rubio is there in Saudi Arabia than some
0:12:53 of the other potential people who could be there from the Trump orbit maybe
0:12:57 there are things happening on the margins that matter and like you said
0:13:06 Waltz was a very traditional you know type of you know type of Republican it
0:13:10 is in the house as far as foreign policy is concerned and I interviewed Tom
0:13:14 Malinowski the Democrat from New Jersey last week who’s he’s a pretty kind of
0:13:18 hawkish Democrat and so he was like when I got to Congress I was looking to
0:13:21 Republicans that I could work with like where we might have some overlap on
0:13:26 foreign policy and and he was like Waltz and Stefanik were the two people that I
0:13:30 turned to and and he’s like they’ve you know he’s like it’s just Stefanik is
0:13:35 totally you know gone native with the MAGA and he’s like it appears like Waltz
0:13:40 is doing the same so and we’ll see how things shake out this week but the
0:13:44 signs are not positive and it’s really a sign of kind of submission to the
0:13:48 Trump worldview from all these folks. What do you think is the likelihood that
0:13:52 Zelensky gets his way so he was speaking at the Munich Security Council and he
0:13:56 said we need an armed forces of Europe this is after JD Vance essentially took
0:14:01 a flamethrower to our relationship with Europe in his speech clearly Zelensky
0:14:08 does not see us as the top partner opportunity for him going forward do
0:14:13 you think Europe is really going to unify without us? Yeah I mean I wouldn’t see us
0:14:17 as the top partner opportunity either if I was saying yeah I think Europe will I
0:14:25 think it could be a positive outgrowth of like the Trump worldview the Europe
0:14:32 ends up you know stepping up their game on defense and you know takes more
0:14:35 responsibility and it’s not like I don’t want to say they’re not taking any
0:14:39 responsibility for their own defense but but actually you know you know sort of
0:14:43 takes seriously the act that they might have to go it alone at some point and
0:14:45 you’ve seen this from people and from Europeans at the Munich Security
0:14:50 Conference leader NATO said something to this effect which was pretty Secretary
0:14:54 General rather which is pretty alarming so I think that that’s possibly
0:15:01 positive but like okay that has potential massive negative ramifications
0:15:07 for us you know I mean I was going for this out there was a woman who is a
0:15:13 journalist in Ukraine who whose quote just really kind of dropped me in my
0:15:18 feet over the weekend she wrote she said this her name is Anna Merlekina she’s
0:15:21 from Moria Paul and like had to flee to Kiev she said when you live in a world
0:15:24 that is crumbling under your feet the only thing that helps you survive is to
0:15:27 believe in guidelines and civilized democratic countries that uphold values
0:15:31 when countries like the United States cease to be pillars there’s nothing to
0:15:37 hope for I mean that is like that is a jaw-dropping quote from from somebody
0:15:41 over in Ukraine and I just think that’s reflective of how people in Europe are
0:15:46 gonna see us and I just believe that there’ll be negative ramifications for
0:15:50 that down the line we don’t exactly know how or when but you know I think that
0:15:54 Europe will kind of decide that they should be prepared to go it without us
0:15:58 going back to I guess we we got into ineffective Democrats very early on in
0:16:04 the podcast but I do maybe just because I work in communication I guess that I
0:16:08 always think that there was an opportunity to do better if we had
0:16:14 messaged properly about this and it doesn’t feel like we have made the case
0:16:17 this is Democrats and Republicans like obviously you know Mitch McConnell and
0:16:21 the kind of more traditional sad have been you know screaming from the rooftops
0:16:26 at a low pitch he doesn’t scream so loud anymore at 83 but have been trying to
0:16:30 talk about the importance of keeping together the democratic world order and
0:16:36 that you need to swear countries that share our values and it feels like that
0:16:41 has just fallen on completely deaf ears and that people have moved to this world
0:16:48 where it’s what about me first and can’t see the second order effects if we end up
0:16:52 abandoning Ukraine and so do you think there’s anything we could have done or
0:16:56 this storm which is taking over the world right was there any way to stop this
0:17:00 on this one I’ll let you make fun of the Democrats communications and I’ll take
0:17:04 responsibility for my people because I you do you I think possibly no because of
0:17:12 Iraq honestly like I do think that it was just such a debacle that they’re you
0:17:17 know within the country like there has just become an increased skepticism
0:17:23 from another word like hostility to the idea that we should be involved overseas
0:17:28 in foreign conflicts and I think it’s very complicated to then say okay well
0:17:32 this is not a rock right like Ukraine is different like we don’t have troops on
0:17:36 the ground we’re not trying to do regime change we’re trying to defend an ally and
0:17:41 that helps us because you know if Russia successfully overtakes Ukraine that’s
0:17:46 going to demonstrate weakness you know to the you know rules-based order and
0:17:49 that could cause threats to us down the line right like it’s just it’s a
0:17:55 complicated point to make right especially in in the face of you know
0:18:01 really like pretty bipartisan increasingly like opposition to us
0:18:07 playing this role in the world and so to me the obligation is then like this is
0:18:12 what Trump has unraveled is that there were a number of things that are not
0:18:19 really popular among the whole country that leaders in both parties continued
0:18:23 to do such as USAID because it was the right thing to do and because they were
0:18:29 responsible leaders right and sometimes that is you know required this is not
0:18:34 ancient Greece we don’t we don’t have a direct direct democracy on purpose not
0:18:40 everything should be decided based on 50% plus one vote you know if that is true
0:18:44 I would have never gotten married right like that was a fell as an opposite
0:18:48 opposed vote until the Supreme Court did it right like eventually sometimes
0:18:50 leaders have to do things that are unpopular because they’re the right
0:18:54 thing to do maybe sometimes they get held accountable for that Trump because he
0:18:59 doesn’t care about any of that doesn’t like have really core values or empathy
0:19:04 or care about you know the American idea doesn’t believe that doesn’t believe
0:19:09 that exists only believes their American interests has wiped away all of that and
0:19:15 so I don’t know that the Democrats could have you know just by making their
0:19:22 messaging better you know changed people’s view of this or you know broadly
0:19:25 America’s role when it comes to aid so I mean I think that you could probably
0:19:29 give a few of them some lessons on how to make those arguments better having
0:19:34 watched you on the five and having watched some of them but I don’t know
0:19:37 that it would have actually made the difference in this case it’s just such a
0:19:42 big failure when you think about how core Biden made it to his reason for being
0:19:46 right I mean part of it was I have to get you all through COVID and I can be
0:19:50 America’s grandpa and I’m the most empathetic man you ever met but it was
0:19:55 also like this return to normalcy and you know people’s lived experience was
0:20:00 just so not commensurate with the world that he was talking about that they
0:20:06 were just like a few right I’m out it was a failure and and I don’t and I mean
0:20:12 obviously Biden’s inability to deliver a message I had ramifications like what
0:20:15 you know in this case was it you know was that the key difference I don’t know
0:20:18 but I mean I think it was a problem across multiple verticals and it
0:20:22 relates to the democratic stuff now it just he was not he was absent right and
0:20:25 there was a moment in 2020 where I think people were so fucking sick of the
0:20:29 news and Trump and COVID like the idea that Biden wouldn’t be in their lives
0:20:32 every day was kind of people are like that’s a good thing there really some
0:20:37 people out there that that that was an attractive but like over time as crises
0:20:42 unfolded as inflation happened as the invasion of Ukraine happened as 10
0:20:48 7 happened you know people need somebody that can talk to them right and to
0:20:53 deliver a compelling message and that can you know I demonstrate leadership
0:20:58 traits or demonstrate strength at least and I think that that was like kind of
0:21:01 missing from the last couple years a lot of the last administration I would even
0:21:05 say that the quality of the messaging wouldn’t have mattered as much if it was
0:21:09 happening as more frequently that people actually just want to physically see you
0:21:12 and then their minds run wild and obviously there are people who are
0:21:15 feeding this that are like oh he’s not here because he’s dead but he’ll be
0:21:20 awake at 2 o’clock and then he’s gonna die again I tell you I never
0:21:25 compliment Trump so just so you want but like guy has been ever like there was
0:21:28 this thing on on the left in like resistance world like and during the
0:21:33 campaign that was like Trump is just as old as Biden and Trump’s you know brain
0:21:37 is putting to and like the media it’s so unfair that the media is making the
0:21:41 Biden age thing like the only thing that’s like I can say I don’t think that
0:21:46 is true like Trump gives off crazy energy not old energy like he just does and
0:21:49 since he’s been in there I thought I didn’t know I thought it was an unknown
0:21:54 like could my Trump win and just be so happy that he’s not in jail that he’s
0:21:59 just gonna golf and like go on the NASCAR track which he did and like do fun
0:22:02 stuff do the fun stuff and the accoutrements of the presidency and not
0:22:05 do everything else and that’s been the opposite like he’s given more press
0:22:09 conferences than anybody like dude is like I lose track of all the press
0:22:12 conferences he’s done like I missed one on Friday you know but like he’s
0:22:20 talking to media all the time and I’m like that is how to do it in the modern
0:22:24 media age like and I think that that is something that those of us who oppose
0:22:27 them could could learn from. Yes be everywhere all the time even if they
0:22:31 don’t like you and their feed I have this conversation constantly with people
0:22:35 I’m like oh but the engagement is so mean and they’re like but it’s engagement
0:22:41 like that’s what Trump understands like all the hate comments they’re still
0:22:44 thinking about you you’re still living what did they say like rent-free in your
0:22:49 head I want to talk to you about the AP but just really quickly did you I
0:22:52 shouldn’t say did you make anything because it obviously is a big deal about
0:22:56 the State Department taking down the statement that they that we do not
0:23:02 support Taiwanese independence and like that feels like it’s flying in the face
0:23:05 of the way that we’re moving with Russia because obviously that’s China’s red line
0:23:10 that feels like signature Rubio to me who’s such a big China hawk do you think
0:23:14 anything’s gonna come of this or maybe I’m wrong about this but I kind of just
0:23:18 see Taiwan and going the same path as Ukraine right where there is some
0:23:22 resistance inside the administration that like once you know wants us to be
0:23:25 stronger in that case and that there’s some resistance among the Republicans on
0:23:29 the Hill resistance or but some views among Republicans on the Hill and in
0:23:33 the administration there are more hawkish on Taiwan than Trump’s itself but
0:23:36 Trump was asked about Taiwan at one of his hundred press conferences we were
0:23:40 just talking about recently and he goes on a rant about how they’ve been
0:23:45 stealing our jobs and how you know jobs for the micro the chips need to be
0:23:51 coming back to America and I just if you just looked at the tone of his comments
0:23:55 it didn’t sound like the tone of somebody that’s ready to put American
0:24:01 defense power on the line to protect Taiwan and I just don’t see how a Trump
0:24:06 Vance administration you know who has just laid the groundwork with their
0:24:10 followers that they only care about us first they only care about American
0:24:13 interests first we shouldn’t care about what’s happening on the other side of
0:24:19 the globe I if I if a conflagration happened with China and Taiwan I just
0:24:22 don’t know how they can go to their supporters and be like oh yeah that
0:24:25 actually we need to put in a couple hundred billion here or God forbid
0:24:30 troops or ships or whatever I like I don’t see it Marco might be trying to fool
0:24:33 himself into thinking that Trump sees China differently because it’s a bigger
0:24:39 threat but I I think that if push came to shove we’d see pretty much the same
0:24:42 thing we see from him on Ukraine all right so we’ve got a rogue Rubio moment
0:24:46 that’s that’s how I see it and I think Trump likes that actually too by the way
0:24:50 I will say this I think Trump doesn’t mind if people are confused you know like
0:24:55 his his he is he benefits from us being right and so I think it’s I don’t think
0:24:58 that like he’s like mad at Marco over this I think that he’s like well you know
0:25:03 we’ll keep them on their toes like that’s part of Trump’s mindset and so I my
0:25:08 point is just like if push comes to shove I don’t if I’m she I’m like these
0:25:12 guys aren’t gonna go to battle for Taiwan that would be the bad I’d be making
0:25:16 yeah like let them put whatever they want on their silly website about
0:25:21 cooperation with Taiwan okay moving on to something else sad I I want to talk
0:25:25 about the AP getting banned so they were kicked out of the press briefings and
0:25:30 then they weren’t allowed a photographer and a reporter weren’t allowed on the
0:25:36 presidential plane and there was a big I shouldn’t it feels so lame to say there
0:25:40 was a big explainer because it wasn’t even like a real piece of journalism but
0:25:45 I got a nifty newsletter from Axios talking about the kind of history of
0:25:49 this administration’s objections to the AP and basically they’re mad that the
0:25:57 AP style book has used terms that they hate to liberally like gender DEI
0:26:04 inclusivity etc I’m old enough to remember when the other news stations
0:26:09 stood with Fox News when the Obama administration wasn’t going to let them
0:26:13 in to do a pool briefing with the representative from the administration
0:26:17 and basically ABC NBC CBS they all said if Fox can’t do it then we’re not doing
0:26:20 it and then they let them in begrudgingly but it doesn’t feel like that moment is
0:26:24 happening at all like everyone is bemoaning the fact that the AP is
0:26:29 being excluded but no one is doing anything about it and I mean this feels
0:26:35 like a pretty obvious we a don’t know what the First Amendment means and be we
0:26:38 don’t care and we’re running this like the Wild West
0:26:43 I mean the asymmetry is just so obvious it’s almost like you know it’s like dog
0:26:47 bites man to even mention it like yeah I mean look so in part I actually would
0:26:53 be defensive of the other mainstream outlets like because I think that if ABC
0:26:58 and NBC and CBS said we’re gonna boycott in solidarity with AP I think I feel like
0:27:07 the Trump administration would be like okay peace you know yeah so I don’t you
0:27:10 know I mean that’s like the situation I think everybody should just be aware of
0:27:14 like what time it is and what’s what’s happening out there as far as like the
0:27:17 more interesting part of this I know obviously there’s the First Amendment
0:27:25 threat here but to me is how all in these guys are going on like you know
0:27:29 Patriot what I call patriotic correctness like you know it it’s not
0:27:37 just enough to stop doing you know pro DEI activities they they need to snuff
0:27:44 out anybody that is using words or language that they don’t like right and
0:27:50 to a preposterous extent right like the idea that like everybody has to use the
0:27:55 new name of the Gulf that they just changed one minute ago like it you know
0:28:00 or else they’re gonna be banned is ridiculous right like and in some ways
0:28:03 it’s ridiculous as some of the most extreme things that you see like on the
0:28:09 far left on PC like demanding that people you know use you know use Latinx
0:28:12 or whatever right and so I do wonder if it’s going to backfire on them
0:28:19 eventually I don’t are people really for this like it feels it feels very
0:28:26 mockable so obviously it’s serious but I do think they are like very much being
0:28:31 responsive to something that only like a tiny group of far-right trolls who are
0:28:36 super online actually care about and I don’t know if that’s like a path to
0:28:41 long-term success for the right now I they definitely just want to get in as
0:28:45 many kind of gloating laps early on I think that they know that it just gets
0:28:50 more and more complicated and certainly as we head into special elections and
0:28:53 the midterms and things like that which hopefully Democrats will perform better
0:28:58 than we did so you do think that’s conscious like they’re like hey you
0:29:02 know this isn’t gonna last forever this like gloating honeymoon and so we want
0:29:06 to like rub their face and shit as for as long as possible like and like there’s
0:29:09 like a little bit of that I think they can look to past administrations and say
0:29:13 okay you know your first two years are when you can actually get things done
0:29:17 right they have control of everything they’re definitely trying it on right
0:29:21 to the largest extent possible you know let’s ram through four and a half
0:29:26 trillion in tax cuts like let’s try to cut all of these entitlement programs
0:29:30 now they realize that they’re not going to get their wish list of all of it but
0:29:33 they are at a moment where they’re owning the culture and so I feel like
0:29:37 they’re just taking advantage and saying okay well if we haven’t
0:29:41 grated ourselves to a segment of the American population that wouldn’t have
0:29:46 given us their time at all for eight years ago let’s really go for it and you
0:29:50 can tell that also in the attitude that Caroline Levitt the press secretary has
0:29:56 about everything I mean she’s so haughty and arrogant in the way that she
0:30:00 delivers everything which I listen I wish that I had more of that in me I
0:30:05 wish I didn’t have such a terrible case of imposter symptoms but like to be 27
0:30:11 years old and to walk up there with that you know it’s a fact this is a fact
0:30:16 right or like every man in Gaza is wearing a condom that we paid for well
0:30:23 actually no no that’s not true in Mozambique there are some condoms the
0:30:28 godsend you know and it’s it’s the Trump bravado that if you say it a certain
0:30:34 way there’s at least a good amount of people that are gonna believe you and I
0:30:38 think that they’re living for the moment right it’s like a Yolo administration
0:30:43 at this point and until there are real consequences I think they’re gonna go
0:30:47 for it with everything when the AP is calling Mount Denali, Mount McKinley
0:30:52 right now I mean they’re doing half of the crazy thing I wonder is yours is that
0:30:56 true like your comment about how they’re owning the culture now I can’t figure
0:31:02 this out like is that actually true or does it just kind of feel like it’s true
0:31:06 and or and maybe that’s a distinction without it would I be able to have a
0:31:10 distinction without a difference right but I don’t I’m kind of like is it just
0:31:15 political obsessives who feel this way I mean did people’s lives really just
0:31:18 change like did they change like their mindset on this sort of stuff like
0:31:25 overnight I don’t know well they’re owning infrequent voters that’s true that
0:31:32 are 18 to 40 right that and those are real culture vultures those are people
0:31:35 that are listening to podcasts those are people who are concerned about all of
0:31:41 the dies in our food those are people who are picking schools for their kids to
0:31:46 go to and are disenchanted with the public school system and wanting to get
0:31:50 away from feeling like they have to use gender pronouns on their email
0:31:55 signatures I mean these are real things that folks are thinking about and so I
0:31:58 don’t know if owning the culture is the right way to put it because I still
0:32:04 don’t think that Kid Rock is cooler than Jay-Z that will just never happen but you
0:32:12 can tell I can’t I can’t fight the 40 and I’m 41 in a couple of weeks no but
0:32:15 Kid Rock was on Bill Maher on Friday night and I found the interview really
0:32:19 interesting I mean he was first of all I had forgotten I guess that he played
0:32:24 Obama’s inauguration in 08 and he was like it’s not as if I liked Obama then
0:32:32 you just show up and you do this but he was essentially mocking us for like
0:32:37 liberal leaning people and you knew new to the side of the fence but for freaking
0:32:41 out about everything all the time and I do think that they are owning the
0:32:46 culture by making it clear that majority of people feel like it’s just not that
0:32:52 serious and part of that is a mistake on Democrats part by not making it feel
0:32:57 like it’s that serious in practical ways not like this guy is actually gonna fall
0:33:00 but like this is the way that your checkbook is going to be affected this
0:33:03 is where your kid is going to be affected but like people are walking
0:33:07 around just saying I don’t think politics is that serious and the
0:33:11 Republican side seems like that right now yeah it’s interesting I mean that
0:33:16 goes against you know my entire like like everything in my body wants to
0:33:19 reject that like you know some like things are singers things matter
0:33:25 actually but I do I’m it makes me curious about the Federman kind of model
0:33:30 because he that like that’s kind of what he’s doing basically which is like
0:33:36 mocking like progressive who are like hyperventilating while like just
0:33:40 basically voting with the Democrats all the time and I don’t think that every
0:33:45 Democrat should act like that but I do wonder if there is some potential
0:33:50 efficacy to having a couple of Democrats out there who have more of a
0:33:55 slack or energy to try to break through all right let’s take a quick break stay
0:33:57 with us
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0:36:33 get covered at pac dot blue cross dot ca welcome back mayor Eric Adams just got
0:36:36 a legal lifeline but it came from the most controversial figure in New York
0:36:40 politics Donald Trump the Trump administration’s justice department
0:36:43 dropped Adams’s corruption case but in a city where Trump remains deeply
0:36:48 unpopular that reprieve could be more of a political liability than a win now
0:36:52 Adams is facing accusations of being in Trump’s pocket especially after appearing
0:36:55 alongside Trump’s borders are Tom Homan and making moves that align with the
0:36:59 president’s immigration policies meanwhile the case is dismissal has
0:37:03 sparked a crisis inside Trump’s DOJ a mass resignation of prosecutors
0:37:08 including one who accused DOJ leaders of looking for a quote fool to take the
0:37:15 fall have you been following that’s probably not as closely as me here’s
0:37:18 why I’m into it Hagen Scott and who you know he’s the guy you mentioned who said
0:37:21 that I expect you’ll eventually find someone who’s enough of a fool or a
0:37:28 coward to file your file your motion this guy is like special forces dude who
0:37:34 brown stars whatever I’ll give him a third for this if he only has two but
0:37:40 who clerked for so I believe he was Kavanaugh and Roberts and then Danny
0:37:45 also soon who’s the original person who read the letter to Emil Bove she was
0:37:51 Scalia a Scalia clerk both I mean both like Scott and his letter kind of
0:37:55 subtly implies that he likes Trump I never get exactly how he put up but he
0:37:58 was like I could kind of see the perspective he’s like some people might
0:38:01 be quitting because they’re really upset with this administration like that’s
0:38:04 not me and I kind of see how a businessman could think this was a good
0:38:08 deal it’s just not legal like was that’s like that’s TLDR summary of his
0:38:15 letter and so the fact that it’s these two people who are fed sock folks who are
0:38:20 stepping out that’s Federalist Society for maybe raging moderates audiences are
0:38:31 like conservative legal folks who are just saying no who are like standing up
0:38:35 and saying I’m not gonna go along with this and I think that’s pretty powerful
0:38:38 and it comes at a time when I don’t know at least maybe just maybe just me or
0:38:42 maybe just a bulwark people are like thirsting for people to be showing a
0:38:46 little bit more backbone right now and so I’ve that’s kind of why I’ve been
0:38:50 following it less on like the legal nerd side but just more on this is kind of
0:38:56 how you do it as far as standing up to a liberal actions yeah I mean I was into
0:39:02 it I had been feeling starved I guess for some old-school intellectual
0:39:07 resistance I guess not people out there with a sign you know like hands off my
0:39:14 whatever but I like them but they’re not getting us really anywhere at this
0:39:22 point but it feels like what they’re doing is because it’s a harbinger of bad
0:39:25 things to come so the Adams case itself or at least what we know about it you
0:39:29 would expect more I guess in the indictment he definitely broke the law
0:39:33 and I thought that’s a student’s letter was you know very specific about that
0:39:37 and that does matter to people that are career prosecutors who take the law very
0:39:44 seriously but to me I felt a little bit of a if you think that we’re just gonna
0:39:49 roll over for all of this from like the lighter fare of this which obviously has
0:39:54 very real implications for New York City politics and national politics even but
0:39:57 that they’re scared of what this administration is going to be asking
0:40:03 them to do like Pam Bondi will see us all as folks that are ready to just line
0:40:08 up and rubber stamp whatever is to come and they can’t help the fact even though
0:40:13 Bondi was one of the lesser controversial nominees which just speaks to how
0:40:18 crazy the set of nominees were but you know Pam Bondi was all in on the 2020
0:40:23 election was rigged out there front and center on that and to me it felt like a
0:40:30 little bit of a cry for help or at least a signal of like we can’t be there for
0:40:34 whatever they are going to try because they’ve spent so much time bemoaning
0:40:39 quote-unquote lawfare and it is very clear that they are looking to weaponize
0:40:44 everything back for their own benefit yeah and we also had a US trainee down
0:40:48 here and and Louisiana who quit I think that there are a lot of those warning
0:40:51 sense happening in this guy the character that I’ve been watching closely in
0:40:55 this thing is this I kind of hate saying his name and Neil Bove kind of when
0:40:58 it come like Amel Bove I don’t know it’s kind of a pretentious
0:41:05 for name for one for a maga but anyway Bove was the person who in this
0:41:09 assumed letter I think the most powerful thing was like in the first footnote
0:41:13 where she was like someone was taking notes in the meeting where they told us
0:41:17 that they’re gonna you know about the deal on the prosecution and he collected
0:41:22 the notes at the end of the meeting which is like no note taking which you
0:41:26 know feels very fascistic the oh also kind of dumb sort of and I guess a lot
0:41:30 of times fascism is dumb like dumb bad it’s like okay well the notes are gone
0:41:33 but I prefer it when it’s dumb because at least we can talk about it he took
0:41:39 away the notes yeah and so but he’s the same guy who is at the center of the
0:41:42 FBI firings right and there’s a whistleblower and if you saw that over the
0:41:46 weekend where you know they were saying that Cash Patel lied during his
0:41:51 confirmation hearing because you know the note taking in that meeting the FBI
0:41:56 meeting said that Bove had said that Cash Patel had and Stephen Miller were
0:42:01 the ones that were asking for this so they have this like kind of henchmen in at
0:42:08 the DOJ and so I think that it is pretty it is good that you know because
0:42:11 there’s always this debate right like should people like this stay would we
0:42:16 rather have Hagin Scott and in there than whoever replaces them and and I
0:42:22 think that in my view it’s actually better for these folks to you know kick
0:42:26 up a cloud of dust here and like draw attention to this person so people can
0:42:30 watch it so it’s not like happening you know behind the scenes and cloak and
0:42:34 dagger yeah though you do need good people to stay I said a couple weeks ago
0:42:39 that we’re it’s going to require thousands of Mike Pence’s to make it
0:42:43 through whatever is to come over the course of the next four years so I
0:42:47 agree with you and I think it’s also matters that this is happening so early
0:42:52 on I can’t believe we’re only in the beginning of the fourth week of this but
0:42:58 we are going to need people who are interested in the rule of law in a
0:43:02 traditional sense not in the rule of law just because I said so and Napoleonic
0:43:07 slash Trump terms to reference his weekend tweeting which did not feel like
0:43:11 him at all I don’t know that felt more must here’s the thing that made it me
0:43:15 think it might be him I was reading an article and that quote is actually from
0:43:21 a movie called Waterloo that’s not from Napoleon and then it’s like it’s
0:43:29 accredited yeah like the direct quote is from Waterloo the movie the movie is in
0:43:34 1970 and that to me like feels like it could be a Trump cultural reference like
0:43:38 he might have watched a 1970s movie about Napoleon like that feels like the
0:43:41 thing he might have watched but maybe not I don’t know that was the only because I
0:43:47 agreed with you initially it did feel musky but or somebody or Stephen Miller
0:43:54 like someone got control of the of the phone for a second I don’t want to
0:44:00 belabor that Adam stuff that much but part of the deal that I guess he’s made
0:44:03 but she claims he hasn’t made a deal with the administration but it’s quite
0:44:07 obvious since he had to sit on the Fox and Friends couch and be humiliated by
0:44:14 Tom Homan a couple days ago but is that they’ll be easing or he’s going to try
0:44:19 to use sanctuary city laws as it applies to Rikers and the way that sanctuary
0:44:25 city policy works in New York is that ice can’t be near the prisons and the
0:44:30 reason that that’s the case is not necessarily that we don’t want criminals
0:44:35 to be deported but it’s because they could pick up people who haven’t actually
0:44:39 been convicted yet people who have just been charged and not gone through their
0:44:44 due process which they’re entitled to and you have any views kind of thinking
0:44:50 about the macro issue that I think liberals are finding themselves in is
0:44:56 having been way too lax about illegal migration and even too lax on people who
0:45:01 are here illegally and then committing violent crimes on how we should be
0:45:07 approaching sanctuary policy so my viewpoint which is I think different
0:45:10 from some of from like kind of the conventional wisdom among Democratic
0:45:18 strategists is that like maybe like in February of 2025 like the right thing to
0:45:23 do is to fight these guys tooth and nail and to figure out what happened and
0:45:28 figure out with how things shake out and in 2026 summer you can decide to be
0:45:31 strategic and like figure out which issues are the right ones for the for
0:45:34 the electorate like we don’t fucking know what’s gonna happen over the next
0:45:40 year so just fight him and try to make him fail my exception to that is like on
0:45:43 some of these like there are a couple of policies for these two Democrats like
0:45:48 obviously got out way too far to the left away from public opinion and I just I
0:45:54 do think sanctuary cities is one of them I’m so like I was like the
0:45:57 compassionate conservative Bush Republican I was I’m like about as liberal
0:46:02 on immigration as you can get to like I was part of the group of Republicans that
0:46:06 the Republican voters wanted to overthrow and like the kind of McCain view of
0:46:12 the world immigration so like I am extremely sympathetic to immigrants
0:46:18 and the plight of immigrants who are fleeing you know oppression or fleeing
0:46:22 whatever and want to come to America that’s what America is about like that
0:46:26 said like some of the sanctuary you know like some of the sanctuary city stuff
0:46:30 it just got overboard it was just kind of crazy like and I understand there might
0:46:34 be like a specific reason why it makes sense to not have ice in the prisons
0:46:42 but I just think that like fighting over whether prisoner illegal migrants who
0:46:48 committed crimes in this country should be deported is like maybe one of the
0:46:52 fights out say I think you can take a pass on this one I should that if you’re
0:46:59 with Democrats so that would be that that’s my view on that yeah it’s
0:47:01 definitely the way that a lot of Democrats feel you and you already
0:47:05 reference John Federman or you’d be like why are you wasting my time with this
0:47:09 right this is you’re in a privileged position that you got to be here
0:47:17 illegally in the first place and you can just see the next iteration of the
0:47:22 Charlemagne ad about giving transgender surgeries for undocumented people in
0:47:26 prison being written about something like this it doesn’t change the fact that
0:47:31 the city council has to be the ones to revise sanctuary city laws but I tend
0:47:35 to agree with you that kicking up a massive fuss about it probably just
0:47:40 allows Trump and co to continue to say that we’re so out of step with where
0:47:44 culture is here’s the other thing they are gonna overstep on immigration so
0:47:47 here’s the area where I would say Democrats do not like don’t need to be
0:47:53 over cautious right like people do not want dreamers to be deported right like
0:47:57 people don’t want that people don’t want like people who are in this country you
0:48:01 know whose parents brought them to this country when their kids you know to be
0:48:04 deported or to be separated from their families and there are already a couple
0:48:09 of examples of like very sympathetic individuals who are being either
0:48:14 detained by ICE like one like there’s like a guy in Newark who is a veteran who
0:48:22 is like detained by ICE and so I think that there are going to be ways to fight
0:48:27 immigration you know immigration from a humanitarian standpoint that are
0:48:31 beneficial for Democrats and they should choose those fights rather than
0:48:35 fighting over whether prison deportations happen or not under the
0:48:38 administration. Yeah that leads me to something I’ve been thinking about in
0:48:44 general about like where Democrats show up and stand up and amplifying stories
0:48:50 like that on a local level versus in DC I mean DC unless you know unless you
0:48:54 represent Virginia or Maryland like I don’t think any of this should be going
0:48:58 on in DC I think you need to be back with your people and talking about stories
0:49:01 like that there was another one in Milwaukee which I talked about on the
0:49:06 five and rarely do my colleagues just shut up but they were like oh my god
0:49:12 that happened where they took in a toddler a mom and a grandmother for
0:49:16 speaking Spanish and someone had to come with birth certificates they were
0:49:21 Puerto Rican to get them out of the detention center and the idea of a
0:49:26 two-year-old in a detention center for allegedly you know where we’re going to
0:49:31 be holding people that have committed violent crimes and were here illegally
0:49:36 when they’re Americans and did nothing but speak another language seemed to hit
0:49:41 the audience hard and so yeah and this is to me and this is what I would say
0:49:46 local is fine but what you’re doing is I think probably the most useful like on
0:49:51 Fox and on conservative media platforms and on culturally conservative
0:49:56 platforms again like people have this totally wrong view of what like the
0:50:02 manasphere podcasters think about all this stuff yeah like you give specific
0:50:06 examples like the ones you’re giving like they’re 80% issues like people do
0:50:13 not want most people besides racist and like extreme you know far-right freaks
0:50:18 do not want people detained for speaking Spanish in this country like that is not
0:50:23 something that is popular actually and so if you can focus on a couple of those
0:50:28 examples and bring them in to the lion’s den I think that is like a use a much
0:50:33 more useful way to spend time than having a press conference on the hill and
0:50:37 at Jared Moskowitz I saw was on Fox over the weekend I just think that like more
0:50:43 is more on this I obviously agree with you and that’s always great when I see
0:50:49 others showing up not even necessarily to get the clickbait that worked in 2016
0:50:52 you know how everything was just about owning the other side and there were
0:50:57 those huge fights now it’s like showing up and being reasonable makes even more
0:51:01 of a difference because people’s partisan lines have been completely
0:51:05 scrambled right you can’t predict it anymore in the same way and so if you
0:51:10 show up like Jared Moskowitz did and you sound reasonable about immigration you
0:51:13 know he was one of the first ones to say let me in the doge caucus for instance
0:51:17 but then you hold the line about stuff that really matters and it gets
0:51:21 amplified like that because he was on you know on primetime they love it
0:51:25 they’re gonna get the clip out into their ether we’ll get their clip out
0:51:28 into our ether and suddenly you know Jared Moskowitz is president yeah
0:51:32 well that’s ups to God’s ears but yeah the prime example of this that I saw
0:51:36 recently was Zelensky did the Lex Friedman interview Lex Friedman and like
0:51:40 if you just look at the comments on Lex Friedman’s YouTube which is like he is
0:51:44 he’s like Magan the Muskway right like he is like contrarian or whatever he’s
0:51:47 not like a far-right he’s not like a social conservative you know what I mean
0:51:53 like he’s like a contrarian so he’s in that sort of ecosystem and so it’s like
0:51:56 that is a mostly anti-ukrain ecosystem Zelensky does the interview and like
0:51:59 there were a lot of people in the comments so we’re just kind of like huh
0:52:05 like oh I was expecting to hate him a lot more or he made a couple you know like
0:52:09 so anyway it’s worth doing that or even people with that in interview in
0:52:14 particular who are big Lex Friedman people but thought like he went too far
0:52:18 in pushing him to say that Russia should get to keep territory that they
0:52:22 obviously illegally took I thought that was even if it was just for that sound
0:52:27 bite that it was worth the three hours of Zelensky’s time to do it I want to get
0:52:33 to kind of the future of the anti-trump Republican faction but quickly are you
0:52:39 pro Cuomo anti Cuomo because he did you see the ad he released the Valentine’s
0:52:45 Day ad where he’s with all of these older women mostly women of color talking
0:52:49 about how tough it is right now for New Yorkers and that but we can always find
0:52:54 a way forward and that the opposite of hate the four letter word that matters
0:53:00 most is love I think it was the phraseology I am I’m anti Cuomo I think
0:53:05 that he he handled COVID atrociously in addition to just all of his personal
0:53:10 misdeeds I maybe have some personal bias I’ve got some friends who are in who
0:53:17 were in conflict with Andrew Cuomo let’s just say and so I think he’s kind of a
0:53:25 creep I will say though like Democrats need more people that like quote that
0:53:31 who are like Cuomo who talk normal and he talks Italian but like you can tell
0:53:35 he’s being authentically himself he doesn’t talk like a fucking valedictorian
0:53:42 kid that’s trying to appease the bosses in a PowerPoint presentation and I
0:53:47 think that Democrats could learn from that and I don’t you know I don’t I’m
0:53:52 no fan of his in particular but I think the data is people want it and I won’t
0:53:56 I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s successful in the mayor’s race yeah it’s
0:54:00 pretty crazy to think about but the amount of normie Democrats that I know
0:54:05 who don’t like Cuomo for a whole host of reasons whether it’s you know the
0:54:12 sexual harassment charges or even the management of COVID and lost people in
0:54:17 nursing homes and just really wanted an apology for him that he couldn’t get out
0:54:21 there just couldn’t muster the strength to say I would have done things a little
0:54:25 bit differently which I think would have gone a tremendously long way they’re
0:54:31 like I could use a competent gangster right now like the city is in shitty
0:54:36 trouble at this point I hate being on the subway and he feels like when you
0:54:40 look at Adams on the other side of this and you think I’m not gonna go for
0:54:45 someone as progressive as like Scott Stringer that he might be the answer
0:54:56 woof all right one more but one more quick break stay with us
0:55:04 want prize with that no not for eyes just peel and play in the McDonald’s app
0:55:08 and you could win one of millions of prize like a cash prize gift card prize
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0:55:20 what prize with that and get ready for your chance to win no purchase required
0:55:23 codes available until March 3rd intercodes by March 24th chances of winning
0:55:29 based on code entry time rules and app we’re taking box media podcasts on the
0:55:33 road and heading back to Austin for the South by Southwest Festival March 8th to
0:55:38 the 10th what is real we’ll be doing special live episodes of hit shows
0:55:42 including pivot that’s right that dogs go into the great state of Texas where
0:55:47 should we begin with Esther Perrell a touch more with Sue Bird and Megan
0:55:52 Rapinoe not just football with Cam Hayward and more presented by smart
0:55:57 sheet the box media podcast stage at South by Southwest is open to all South by
0:56:01 Southwest badge holders we hope to see you at the Austin Convention Center soon
0:56:16 visit boxmedia.com/SXSW to learn more that’s boxmedia.com/SXSW we’re taking
0:56:19 box media podcast on the road and heading back to Austin for the South by
0:56:24 Southwest Festival March 8th through the 10th what a thrill chicken fajitas queso
0:56:28 strawberry margarita extra shot of tequila there you’ll be able to see
0:56:33 special live episodes of hit shows including our show pivot where should
0:56:37 we begin with Esther Perrell a touch more with Sue Bird and Megan Rapinoe not
0:56:43 just football with Cam Hayward and more presented by smart sheet the box media
0:56:48 podcast stage at South by Southwest is open to all South by Southwest badge
0:56:52 holders we hope to see you at the Austin Convention Center soon I’m not joking I
0:56:57 love South by Southwest the people are a ton of fun it’s a great time if you do
0:57:03 come come up and say hi visit boxmedia.com/SXSW to learn more that’s
0:57:08 boxmedia.com/SXSW
0:57:15 welcome back before we wrap and we’ve already been touching this a little bit
0:57:19 but I want to get into it more deeply with you and there aren’t that many
0:57:23 Republicans openly pushing back and Trump’s agenda these days Mitch McConnell
0:57:26 for instance was the lone Republican to vote against confirming Tulsi Gabbard
0:57:30 an RFK junior and Tim you pointed out on the bullet work that even the Wall
0:57:34 Street Journal’s editorial board usually a pretty Trump-friendly finally took a
0:57:39 shot at his economic policies what do you think is the future for the anti-Trump
0:57:45 Republicans in a party that seems like they’ve given up a bit besides an
0:57:50 editorial or two yeah there’s no future yeah there’s no future there’s no
0:57:56 present I I felt like I felt this way for a while it’s I’ll give you a little
0:57:59 scoop I don’t know if this is a scoop anybody cares about me would would
0:58:02 care about that’s nobody else would but like I was planning on writing a book
0:58:07 that was about you know that was the shorthand pitch for it was Trump is
0:58:11 forever that I just like I felt like that that the MAGA that the Republican
0:58:16 voters want Trump or something like it right like whatever comes after Trump if
0:58:22 he ever goes away you know will obviously not be a carbon copy of him
0:58:27 because he has like a lot of unique traits and he’s an eccentricities and
0:58:30 like it’s you know you’ve seen how hard it is to copy him at the local level and
0:58:36 how that has failed in other ways with you know Kerry Lake and others but but
0:58:42 directionally like the idea that of America first of fighting these culture
0:58:49 war battles of not caring about norms and institutions and you know not caring
0:58:53 about like the traditional you know free markets and free people ethos of the
0:58:58 80s and 90s two thousand Republicans like all of that is gone right and it was
0:59:03 already going to be gone even if Kamala Harris had won because that’s just what
0:59:08 that parties are just parties are not actually permanent coherent ideological
0:59:14 groups they are a reflection of a group of people and that group of people can
0:59:17 change over time and I might change them up might change then the nature of the
0:59:23 party and Trump has massively changed the makeup of the Republican Party and as
0:59:29 a result it will be in his image for at least you know until the next realignment
0:59:32 for probably a quarter century or something so I just think that is what’s
0:59:36 happening I think that there will be individual fights on the on the on the
0:59:39 outskirts right like you mentioned this Wall Street Journal article which was an
0:59:43 attack on him over tariffs and and pushing for lower interest rates given
0:59:48 threats for inflation you know if we get into a more normal future in 2028 where
0:59:51 Trump doesn’t try to run again and like you know there’s a primary there will be
0:59:55 some people who are like Trumpy or pro-tariff and there’ll be some people
0:59:58 who are more traditional free market conservative on trade and and on some of
1:00:04 those issues you know it won’t always fall on the Trump side of the line I
1:00:07 think that there will still be skirmish little skirmishes in the ideological
1:00:13 coalition but directionally things are to Trump and I and people nobody is gonna
1:00:17 stand up to him except for people like Mitch McConnell who are already one foot
1:00:22 out the door and that’s basically seen for like a decade now do you have any
1:00:29 idea about what happened during these confirmations to people like Lisa
1:00:34 Murkowski Susan Collins Todd Young in Indiana or I should say from Indiana who
1:00:41 was really anti-tulsi for instance I mean is it straight like doxxing
1:00:45 threatening you with a primary like Bill Cassidy already voted to convict him so
1:00:52 I don’t this idea that he promised Cassidy to essentially RFK Jr. to not be
1:00:56 who he is right and to say you can be my dad and you can check in on me every day
1:01:00 and make sure that I’m not gonna do these things when even the CDC site
1:01:04 already has information about the flu down so obviously that’s not gonna hold
1:01:14 up like what level of threatening or trolling was going on to make people
1:01:18 like this lay down and vote for every single one of these nominees yeah and
1:01:23 the Joni Ernst thing with eggs that was the was really you know I think the test
1:01:27 case yeah what are the tip for this I mean I was in I so I worked in Iowa in a
1:01:33 couple campaigns I was in Iowa like during when all this was happening it was
1:01:38 like about and I was like at an event with a lot of Republicans and and you
1:01:42 know it was like in between when she had spoken out and when she had kind of
1:01:46 fooled it right and there to us to a person I could not find a person at
1:01:49 this event that thought she was gonna hold the line eventually and there were
1:01:52 some very pro Joni people there right and and to people who like her and wish
1:01:55 she would have held the line I got across the board Maga to people who are
1:02:03 like me who are who are lapsed everybody thought no because the voters wanted you
1:02:08 know want Trump to get what he wants like that’s what they want and so she
1:02:12 was just getting totally bullied online phone calls and I think the other
1:02:16 senators really saw that I think in addition to that I do think these
1:02:19 private meetings Trump and then basically said to the nominees just tell
1:02:22 these people whatever they want to hear who cares we’ll figure it out on the
1:02:26 back end right again because these are not rigid ideologues like it’s it’s does
1:02:33 not what Trump is so I think that helped you know give a rationale to some of
1:02:38 these senators to do the easy thing and I also just I just fundamentally don’t
1:02:42 think anybody was gonna actually stand up besides McConnell who’s one step out
1:02:45 the door and Rikowski and Collins will choose their spots because they have
1:02:50 kind of a different sort of brand everybody else I was with Gates at a
1:02:55 TPS I go to the TPS a annual gathering every year to just kind of well you live
1:02:59 in Fox world I don’t I want to make sure I’m not in my little bubble my little
1:03:05 resistance you know form feels like a very place to test it out no it’s fine
1:03:09 the types of people go to those sorts of things are the people you got to worry
1:03:11 about are the people who are alone in their basement getting radicalized
1:03:15 honestly like people that show up to a gathering I’ve at least I found them to
1:03:19 be relatively sociable I had a few people shit talk me but but I never felt
1:03:23 unsafe they’re not bad to your face I’ve always found everyone is like I feel so
1:03:27 terrible that I’ve been calling you the c-word online for three years and I’m
1:03:31 like well stop doing that and I’m so nice do you want a picture that’s
1:03:35 hilarious so anyway I was with Gates and I was like why did you drop like I was
1:03:40 like because I think that you are gonna get through and Gates was like well John
1:03:47 Curtis the guy from Utah who replaced Mitt told me and I wasn’t it wasn’t an
1:03:50 interview so I wasn’t taping outside forget the exact line but it was little
1:03:54 it was something like I would sacrifice my children before I would confirm you
1:03:58 it was some like very ostentatious comment about and so Gates was like I
1:04:02 didn’t think you know it was clear I was gonna get through and I said to him I
1:04:06 was like Curtis would have folded and I like really think I’m right about that
1:04:10 like I do I do think that there is a lot of behind-the-scenes people you know
1:04:13 trying to use a little influence they can without creating and get any
1:04:18 backlash like when push comes to shove like the voters are where their voters
1:04:24 are and so like that is why you’re not saying anybody like the top young so the
1:04:30 world actually stand up yeah I’m popular opinion but I don’t think that you have
1:04:34 to do everything that the voters want like they picked a person who can also
1:04:38 think for themselves who broadly represents their interests right and
1:04:42 understands their constituency but can’t think for themselves so if you pick you
1:04:48 know one of 15 people that you don’t think is unqualified for to kind of lay
1:04:53 down your marker in the sand and say your children will be vaccinated or we
1:04:57 will not have someone who thinks Assad wasn’t really that bad that that might
1:05:03 be good for you long-term but I’m also not running for public opinion me I say
1:05:06 that to the Republicans I talked to all the time and fewer and fewer of them
1:05:10 actually want to talk to me so you know maybe that’s part of my why my
1:05:14 influence isn’t working but I’m like you don’t have to be me I’m not asking
1:05:20 Republican senators or congressmen to troll Trump online you know to try to
1:05:26 own him you know to like fight everything like there’s a huge space between me and
1:05:31 like total submission and it’s just like they’ve kind of decided to abandon that
1:05:36 whole space like there’s just nobody that has decided to try to occupy that and
1:05:39 succeed and I think that’s wrong I do I think people could I mean Collins I
1:05:44 guess as the as the example as the example like I don’t really love Susan
1:05:47 Collins everything that she’s done but she did manage to occupy that space in
1:05:51 between total never-trumper and total Trump’s sycophant and it worked for her
1:05:55 she was like the only senator well this cycle a couple happened but before you
1:05:59 know during the first Trump she was the only senator that won and went the
1:06:05 opposite way as the state you know in 2016 and 2020 yeah you’re saying that I
1:06:14 wasted my dollars on Sarah Gideon no I don’t know if you gave any money to
1:06:23 Jamie Harrison no I have a friend who is a doctor and loves politics but isn’t in
1:06:26 the day-to-day insanity she’ll send me like a New York Times article the day
1:06:30 after and she’ll be like can you believe this and I’m like I need to talk to you
1:06:33 about how fast the news cycle goes but she’ll regularly send me a link to
1:06:37 various Democrats and she goes worth my money I’m like well how much money like
1:06:42 if you want it if you want to be spreading $10 all over the place go
1:06:48 ahead for it but Amy McGrath is never gonna be the senator that takes a Mitch
1:06:52 McConnell seat okay thank you so much for being here that’s it for this
1:06:57 episode thank you for joining us Tim and the raging moderates crew our
1:07:01 producers are David Toledo and Chinane Onike our technical director is Drew
1:07:05 Burroughs you can now find Raging Moderates on its own feed every Tuesday
1:07:09 that’s right it’s own feed there you’ll get exclusive interviews with smart
1:07:13 voices and politics like our latest guest congressman Pat Ryan follow us
1:07:18 wherever you get your podcasts also follow Tim in all of Bulwark world and
1:07:21 thank you for being with us well just me Scott’s not here but he loves you from
1:07:28 afar I loved it good to be here we’ll do that again soon peace bye

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0:01:50 at netsuite.com/vox, netsuite.com/vox.
0:01:53 – Today’s number, 0.004%.
0:01:55 That’s the chance of being born with a genetic mutation
0:01:58 that allows you to sleep less than six and a half hours
0:02:00 each night without any ill effects.
0:02:05 True story, last night I had six hours of straight sleep.
0:02:07 The other two were gay, but I woke up fulfilled.
0:02:20 That’s wrong.
0:02:22 Let’s enjoy it while it lasts.
0:02:26 Today’s discussion on profit markets.
0:02:27 I’m out of breath, by the way,
0:02:29 ’cause I did about seven minutes of working out.
0:02:32 – Yeah, I can tell, I can hear it.
0:02:34 – Oh my gosh.
0:02:35 – What was that, some push-ups?
0:02:37 I saw you doing something off night.
0:02:41 – Secretary Hexhats said that he did five rounds
0:02:44 of 47 push-ups, so I’m committed to doing five rounds
0:02:46 of 48, ’cause I’m already very excited
0:02:48 about whoever’s gonna be 48.
0:02:51 And I did two sets of 48, so I’m trying to figure out,
0:02:54 I’m on TikTok and YouTube, trying to figure out
0:02:59 how to increase your push-up strength.
0:03:02 But anyways, Ed, what’s going on with you?
0:03:03 What’s going on with you?
0:03:07 As I try to out-push up the DUI hire,
0:03:09 Secretary Hexhats, what’s going on with you?
0:03:11 – Yeah, I’m doing pretty well.
0:03:15 I’m in Mexico City, heading to Puerto Escondido tomorrow.
0:03:19 – Oh, Eduardo, don’t install a biblioteca.
0:03:20 Where are you staying though?
0:03:20 It’s like a nice hotel.
0:03:22 – Yes, a miroval, it’s not that nice.
0:03:25 It’s okay, it’ll do.
0:03:26 Yeah, I’m heading out tomorrow.
0:03:27 We’re going to Puerto Escondido.
0:03:28 It’s gonna be great.
0:03:33 I had tacos for breakfast, lunch, and dinner yesterday.
0:03:35 – That’s the five food groups.
0:03:36 What’s Mexico City like?
0:03:38 It’s a hot city right now.
0:03:39 – It’s great.
0:03:41 I haven’t seen that much of it yet.
0:03:43 One thing I did notice that was kind of interesting
0:03:47 is there are BYD stores and BYD ads everywhere.
0:03:49 I haven’t seen a BYD vehicle yet,
0:03:51 but it is interesting.
0:03:54 I mean, I’ve seen it at least five times.
0:03:56 You never see that in America.
0:04:00 So clearly, China’s trying to push that in Mexico.
0:04:01 It’s kind of interesting.
0:04:03 But yeah, it’s a beautiful city.
0:04:04 It’s a good time.
0:04:06 Going to Contra More later tonight.
0:04:08 Apparently, that’s the great restaurant.
0:04:09 Maybe we’ll check out the sojo house, it’ll be good.
0:04:12 – Ask me where my favorite place to vacation in the world
0:04:14 is, there’s someone who’s been literally everywhere.
0:04:17 – What is your favorite place to vacation in the world?
0:04:21 – Mexico, if I could only vacation one place.
0:04:22 What’d it be, Mexico?
0:04:23 I think it might be Mexico.
0:04:24 Maybe Italy, Mexico, yeah.
0:04:25 – Really?
0:04:26 – Yeah, it’s fantastic.
0:04:30 – Over France, over Italy, over Greece, Mexicans.
0:04:32 – Oh yeah, you have it all in Mexico.
0:04:34 You have culture, you have amazing food.
0:04:35 – The pricing is crazy.
0:04:38 I mean, everything’s been crazy cheap.
0:04:41 I had like great meals and it’s been, you know,
0:04:43 it’s like getting sweet green practically.
0:04:44 – It’s got sort of that
0:04:47 making us amazing beach beautiful water vibe
0:04:49 for about 40% of the price.
0:04:51 And the people are friendlier.
0:04:56 Also, it’s got extraordinary architecture, incredible food.
0:04:59 I just absolutely adore Mexico.
0:05:00 Anyways, I’m glad you’re there.
0:05:01 – Glad you’re glad.
0:05:02 And before we get into the show,
0:05:04 I just want to promote the market’s newsletter.
0:05:08 So we’ve expanded this show into a new weekly newsletter.
0:05:10 We’re breaking down key market moves
0:05:14 with data-driven analysis and crisp visuals every Monday.
0:05:18 So please subscribe now at profgmarkets.com.
0:05:19 I think the newsletter is pretty great.
0:05:22 It’s kind of everything in the podcast
0:05:23 and you get to read it in about two minutes,
0:05:25 sort of exactly what you need on a Monday.
0:05:27 – I wasn’t a big fan of it at first.
0:05:29 And then I saw the first one and–
0:05:30 – You weren’t?
0:05:31 I thought you, I thought this was your idea, no?
0:05:32 – It was my idea.
0:05:36 And then, and then I thought, okay,
0:05:40 we spend so much time on our No Mercy, No Malice newsletter.
0:05:41 I mean, it’s taken us 10 years
0:05:43 to get to half a million subscribers.
0:05:45 We really haven’t figured out a way to monetize it,
0:05:47 quite frankly, that’s not why we started it.
0:05:50 But it’s just this monkey on my back,
0:05:52 mostly come Thursday night when I’m like,
0:05:54 okay, what am I going to write about
0:05:55 that people would actually want to read
0:05:56 and doesn’t embarrass everybody?
0:05:59 And then I thought, okay, the notion of another newsletter.
0:06:02 And then when I saw the work that Mia and team had done
0:06:05 on the design and we have already sent out a test batch
0:06:07 and people seem to really like it,
0:06:11 I think we’re going to be close to 200 or 250,000 subscribers
0:06:12 right out of the gate.
0:06:15 So now, now I like it and yes, it was my idea.
0:06:17 – Yeah, I think it’s a great newsletter,
0:06:19 I’m excited about it.
0:06:21 Let’s start with our weekly review of market vitals.
0:06:23 (upbeat music)
0:06:30 The S&P 500 was volatile, the dollar declined,
0:06:34 Bitcoin dropped, the yield on tenure treasuries jumped.
0:06:35 Shifting to the headlines.
0:06:38 Inflation came in hotter than expected
0:06:40 with the consumer price index rising 3% in January
0:06:44 from a year earlier, prices jumped 0.5% from December,
0:06:47 which was the biggest monthly increase since the summer.
0:06:50 All three major indices fell on that news.
0:06:52 Average tuition at US private schools
0:06:55 surged to nearly $50,000 this year,
0:06:58 marking the biggest increase in at least a decade.
0:07:01 Schools kept tuition steady during the pandemic,
0:07:03 but rising teacher salaries and material costs
0:07:06 are now pushing prices higher.
0:07:08 And finally, the European Union has committed
0:07:11 to mobilizing 200 billion euros for AI investments.
0:07:14 50 billion euro will come directly from the EU,
0:07:18 while more than 20 investors, including Blackstone and KKR,
0:07:20 have pledged the remaining amount.
0:07:22 20 billion euros will be set aside
0:07:24 to fund four AI gigafactories dedicated
0:07:28 to training large language models.
0:07:31 So let’s just start with this inflation read.
0:07:33 Let’s just go over the important numbers really quick.
0:07:36 So the CPI rose 3% euro a year, core CPI,
0:07:39 which strips out food and energy.
0:07:43 And as we’ve discussed, the reason you want to use core CPI
0:07:45 as opposed to CPI is because food and energy prices
0:07:46 are very volatile.
0:07:49 So it can sometimes sort of distort what’s really happening.
0:07:51 And that rose 3.3%.
0:07:55 So even higher, this was not a very good report.
0:07:59 The big drivers were shelter, transportation, medical care.
0:08:02 But the item that’s getting the most attention here
0:08:06 is the price of eggs, which has risen 15%
0:08:11 in the past month alone and 53% in the past year.
0:08:16 So a carton of 12 eggs now costs more than $8 on average.
0:08:18 A year ago, it was less than $5.
0:08:22 And the reason this is happening is kind of interesting.
0:08:24 It’s because of this outbreak of bird flu,
0:08:27 which is a common problem in the industry.
0:08:30 But apparently right now, the outbreak we’re seeing
0:08:32 is one of the worst we’ve ever seen.
0:08:34 And this is a huge problem for farmers
0:08:37 because if you find one single case of bird flu,
0:08:39 it means you have to kill your entire flock.
0:08:41 So in the past four months,
0:08:44 American farmers have killed 15%
0:08:46 of all of the chickens in America.
0:08:51 So supply is really low, which is why prices are really high.
0:08:55 Your reaction, Scott, to this inflation data
0:08:57 and perhaps eggs specifically.
0:09:00 – I would say probably the biggest impact it’s gonna have
0:09:02 with the exception of consumers who really feel it,
0:09:06 especially those who energy, housing and food
0:09:07 takes up the disproportionate amount of their income,
0:09:10 which is 80 or 90% of the American consumer.
0:09:13 It’s that the market is gonna have to absorb the fact
0:09:16 that the expected interest rates probably aren’t coming
0:09:20 as quickly as they thought or in the foreseeable future.
0:09:22 The number that pops out to me,
0:09:26 and I had someone who basically ran Obama’s campaign call me
0:09:27 ’cause I was just on CNN,
0:09:29 where by the way, I dropped an F bomb, no joke, on CNN.
0:09:30 – That’s not good.
0:09:33 – And Dana Bash, who I think should be president,
0:09:35 if we’re gonna start picking cable news hosts
0:09:38 to be presidents and secretaries,
0:09:39 asked me what the Democratic Party needs to do,
0:09:42 and I listed all these things and some we need
0:09:44 to be the party of tomorrow and not fucking around.
0:09:47 And then I said that I’m like, “Oh no, I’m not on a podcast.”
0:09:50 And literally, Dana and the other hosts looked at me
0:09:51 like they just got me masturbating.
0:09:54 They did not know what to do.
0:09:55 – They’ve never had that before?
0:09:56 – Oh, it’s happened several times.
0:09:58 I was raised by a single mother and I was like,
0:10:01 oh, wait, you mean dropping an F bomb?
0:10:03 I’m sorry.
0:10:04 – That was good.
0:10:05 – That’s why you come here,
0:10:08 subscribe to our markets newsletter now.
0:10:12 – I don’t think you’re gonna be on CNN again after this.
0:10:13 – Well, if I don’t get another show on CNN Plus,
0:10:17 as far as I’m concerned, my life is over, that’s it.
0:10:19 Anyway, but I was talking,
0:10:22 one of the Obama people called me and said,
0:10:23 “I liked what you had to say,”
0:10:26 and he specifically zeroed in on, I think,
0:10:28 the big idea that the Democrats need.
0:10:31 We need to move from being the party of complaints
0:10:36 and whining and the seniors who changed jello night outrage
0:10:38 to the party of the future.
0:10:40 And I think one of the really interesting ideas
0:10:43 that one or both political parties should forward
0:10:46 is just a massive program that provides subsidies
0:10:49 to the private sector and decreases the ability
0:10:53 to reject housing permits such that we have a massive influx
0:10:57 and creation of millions of units in new housing stock.
0:11:01 And I think this would help level up young people
0:11:04 and it’s just psychologically so important,
0:11:07 employ a ton of people, especially a lot of young people,
0:11:10 especially a lot of young men who over index
0:11:12 around construction and vocational jobs.
0:11:14 But what you’re seeing every month
0:11:16 is an increase in housing costs.
0:11:18 I mean, do you know what’s about to happen?
0:11:21 I have a buddy in LA who had his house on the market,
0:11:24 like a nice little bungalow for $1.1 million,
0:11:27 which is basically means it was a shack
0:11:28 if it was in Santa Monica,
0:11:30 and he just got an offer for 1.8
0:11:33 ’cause something like 13 or 15,000 dwellings
0:11:35 have been taken immediately out of the market in LA
0:11:37 because of the wildfires.
0:11:42 So I zero in on the housing, but this isn’t a surprise.
0:11:45 The question is whether it sticks to Trump or not,
0:11:46 as most things don’t.
0:11:49 But when you combined an incredibly aggressive
0:11:52 anti-immigration policy, tariffs,
0:11:55 and then massive deficit or a fiscal plan
0:11:59 that probably indicates an explosion or deficits,
0:12:01 this all adds up to inflation.
0:12:03 I would predict it’s actually gonna get worse.
0:12:04 What are your thoughts?
0:12:07 – Certainly gonna get worse the way we’re headed so far.
0:12:10 I mean, you mentioned the shelter costs.
0:12:15 It’s up 4.5% or 4.4% year over year.
0:12:17 The housing accounts for nearly a third
0:12:20 of the overall CPI rise.
0:12:23 And we keep on seeing this with every single inflation print.
0:12:25 It’s like it’s very high.
0:12:26 What was the problem?
0:12:27 It was housing.
0:12:32 The way we’re headed in terms of immigration and tariffs,
0:12:34 this is all only gonna get worse.
0:12:35 I think the question is,
0:12:40 can Trump sort of vaccinate himself
0:12:43 from being associated from this whole inflation thing?
0:12:47 Because Biden, we know, I mean, after COVID,
0:12:49 you had all these supply chain issues around the world
0:12:51 which sent prices skyrocketing,
0:12:54 not just in America, but everywhere in the world.
0:12:56 Every single government was dealing with inflation.
0:13:00 Biden did a terrible job of making clear
0:13:02 to the American people that actually,
0:13:04 it doesn’t really have anything to do with him
0:13:05 or his policies.
0:13:07 This was a global problem.
0:13:10 But it’s very hard to convince the American public of that
0:13:13 when you go to the gas station and prices are up 10%.
0:13:16 And the same might be true here with eggs.
0:13:18 I mean, people could be showing up to the supermarket.
0:13:21 Eggs are up 53% in the past year.
0:13:23 And usually when something like that happens,
0:13:25 the first person you blame is the president.
0:13:27 Now the question for Trump is,
0:13:31 is he gonna do a better job of pushing the blame
0:13:32 somewhere else?
0:13:34 And I think the answer is probably yes.
0:13:36 I think he’s gonna be talking a lot about bird flu.
0:13:41 By the way, he’s blamed this inflation print on Biden already.
0:13:42 He said, this isn’t my fault.
0:13:45 And I honestly, I think that’s actually a fair assessment.
0:13:50 I think inflation is sort of a lagging indicator.
0:13:52 But if this continues,
0:13:54 it’s gonna be a big problem for him
0:13:58 because this was really the big issue
0:14:01 that was on the ballot in November.
0:14:02 Speaking of inflation,
0:14:05 let’s talk about the cost of private schools in America,
0:14:07 up to $50,000 up 7%.
0:14:08 I find this so interesting
0:14:11 because you talk a lot about this issue
0:14:14 in higher education specifically,
0:14:17 where you have colleges driving down supply
0:14:20 with lower and lower admissions rates,
0:14:22 at the same time, driving up prices.
0:14:25 And it’s all culminated in what we call
0:14:28 kind of the Hermesification of higher ed,
0:14:30 where they’re basically adopting the same
0:14:34 go-to-market strategy as an Hermes or a Louis Vuitton,
0:14:37 college degrees are becoming increasingly luxury items.
0:14:40 Well, now we’re seeing that same dynamic,
0:14:43 not just at colleges, but in high schools
0:14:46 and in middle schools and even elementary schools.
0:14:50 And I just wanna point out this crazy stat that I saw
0:14:54 in New York, and granted, New York is an exception,
0:14:55 but in New York,
0:14:58 the average tuition for a private elementary school,
0:15:01 so this is grades K through five.
0:15:03 These kids are like six years old.
0:15:07 The average tuition is $22,000 per year.
0:15:10 And then you look across America,
0:15:15 the fact that it’s now up to 50,000 for private schools
0:15:17 from elementary to high school.
0:15:19 For boarding schools, it’s $73,000.
0:15:23 And meanwhile, the admissions rates continue to go down,
0:15:26 i.e. there are still incredible amounts of demand.
0:15:28 People are still down to pay for this,
0:15:30 but it’s only a very specific cohort in America
0:15:31 who could actually do that.
0:15:34 So what does this say about America?
0:15:37 What does this say about our education system?
0:15:38 Where is this all headed?
0:15:42 I left Manhattan because
0:15:44 when my kids were applying to school,
0:15:45 I think it was pre-K,
0:15:49 I think my oldest was four years old or three years old.
0:15:51 And let me be clear, the story ends well.
0:15:54 He’s a star now and doing incredibly well,
0:15:56 but when he was three or four, he was speech delayed.
0:15:59 And they have something called a play date,
0:16:00 which is really just an interview
0:16:02 where they invite a bunch of the kids who are applicants
0:16:03 to play with each other.
0:16:08 And then there’s these three young Gestapo,
0:16:09 Shdazi people in the room,
0:16:12 pretending to like your kid, taking notes,
0:16:13 which is really comfortable.
0:16:16 And they did this game where they go around a circle
0:16:20 and they hit their hands on the floor and I like Daisy’s,
0:16:21 my name is Lisa, the next one.
0:16:26 My name, I like ice cream and my name is Bob.
0:16:28 And then they get to my son and he hits his hands on the floor
0:16:31 and he’s like, that’s it, he’s just looking around.
0:16:32 And I’m like, he’s not getting in.
0:16:35 And we applied to seven schools
0:16:37 and they all send out the letters
0:16:38 on the same day.
0:16:40 And I was told by a friend of ours
0:16:42 who was coaching us around this one school we wanna go to,
0:16:47 make sure you drop off muffins to the admissions director.
0:16:49 I drop off muffins and I’m like,
0:16:51 I’m not fucking dropping off muffins.
0:16:53 That’s where I draw the line at muffins.
0:16:54 And I was under the illusion,
0:16:56 oh, I’m a big time professor,
0:16:58 or a podcaster will get into three or four,
0:17:00 if not five or six of schools.
0:17:02 We got into zero of the seven.
0:17:06 And I was so upset that no one was gonna let me
0:17:09 pay $58,000 for my kid to play with blocks.
0:17:12 That I said to my partner, I said,
0:17:15 I’ve been single and an entrepreneur my whole life,
0:17:17 or most of my life, I’m used to rejection.
0:17:20 I am not used to it for my four year old.
0:17:22 And we left New York.
0:17:25 The issue with K through 12 is the following.
0:17:27 I have no problem with tuition going up.
0:17:29 And my proposal would be the following.
0:17:31 I would like tuition to go up another $10,000
0:17:34 in the form of a tax on every kid’s family
0:17:36 that is in private school,
0:17:39 such that they can pour more money back into public schools.
0:17:41 Because here’s the problem.
0:17:45 I went to a public school and it was in the ’70s in LA,
0:17:48 and it was the year they started integration or busing.
0:17:50 And this isn’t a hallmark story.
0:17:54 Overnight, 40% of our class was black kids
0:17:58 who were on a bus from Compton for an hour each day.
0:18:00 And the idea would be to all get along
0:18:01 and have great empathy for each other.
0:18:03 And we fucking hated each other.
0:18:06 And we used to have black-against-white softball games
0:18:07 and the faculty allowed it.
0:18:08 That’s the bad news.
0:18:11 The good news was about the time we got to high school,
0:18:12 we were getting along.
0:18:15 And I think, I genuinely believe that over the long term,
0:18:19 I’ve established a lot more empathy for people not born
0:18:21 with pale skin and outdoor plumbing
0:18:23 and got to grow up in Westwood.
0:18:26 But my two best friends, Adam and David,
0:18:28 immediately, their parents pulled them out of school
0:18:31 and sent them to this Tony private school called Winward,
0:18:35 where they go to Catalina Island and study marine biology.
0:18:36 And I went home and said to my mom,
0:18:37 I need to go to private school.
0:18:40 And she said, I had one of those, what I call talks,
0:18:42 where she sat me down and said, we’re different.
0:18:44 What we need to do in private schools,
0:18:46 quite frankly, is tax the shit out of them
0:18:49 and reinvest in public schools.
0:18:52 So the fact that private schools are going up in costs,
0:18:53 that doesn’t bother me at all.
0:18:56 I would like to see them go up more in costs
0:18:59 in the form of taxation and then reinvested in public schools
0:19:02 ’cause the key signal or the key metric of success
0:19:05 of K through 12 schools isn’t even resources,
0:19:07 it’s parental involvement.
0:19:11 And dual parent households typically have one or two parents
0:19:14 who can spend more time being involved in the school.
0:19:17 But when you pull out all of those wealthy parents,
0:19:21 all of those typically dual income dual parent households,
0:19:24 the amount of parental involvement in that school declines
0:19:27 and the quality of the education spirals down.
0:19:29 – Yeah, exactly.
0:19:32 Let’s talk about this new initiative from the EU,
0:19:34 Invest AI.
0:19:36 This is sort of their version of Stargate.
0:19:39 This is a 200 billion euro,
0:19:42 which is roughly around $200 billion at this point,
0:19:45 to invest in AI across Europe.
0:19:48 This seems like a pretty good idea, I would say.
0:19:50 I mean, I feel like Europe and the EU generally
0:19:54 gets shitposted for not being ahead of the curve on tech
0:19:57 or AI and just some pretty staggering numbers here
0:19:59 to reference.
0:20:04 The US raised $209 billion in VC funding last year,
0:20:06 Europe raised only $62 billion.
0:20:11 So the America’s share of global venture capital is 57%.
0:20:14 This is last year, Europe’s was only 16%.
0:20:17 If you look at AI VC funding specifically,
0:20:22 US makes up 74% of funding, Europe makes up 9%.
0:20:26 So Europe is way, way behind the puck
0:20:29 when it comes to AI and generally speaking,
0:20:31 technological progress.
0:20:33 So now it looks like they’re trying to rectify that
0:20:35 with this AI initiative.
0:20:38 Do you have any reactions to what the EU is doing?
0:20:39 – A lot of it comes down to this.
0:20:41 The number you skipped over that me have pulled together
0:20:44 for us was that AI specific VC funding,
0:20:47 you got it in percentages was 97 billion in the United States.
0:20:48 It was 9 billion in Europe.
0:20:50 And keep in mind, the US and Europe actually
0:20:53 have some similar size economies.
0:20:55 It really all comes down to a risk complexion.
0:20:57 And the way I summarize it when I’m speaking
0:21:02 to a European audience is that you’re the ones that stayed.
0:21:04 And that is think about who went to America,
0:21:06 they were risk takers.
0:21:08 And that DNA just carries through.
0:21:11 – You think that’s why Americans are more risk aggressive?
0:21:12 It’s genetic?
0:21:13 – Oh my God, are you kidding?
0:21:16 Look at what is the most innovative part of America?
0:21:17 – California?
0:21:19 – Yeah, and who went to California?
0:21:22 The people with a nice cozy life on the East Coast?
0:21:23 Who went to the West Coast?
0:21:25 – I’m with you, I’m with you, I don’t want to hear more.
0:21:28 – When you talk about success, this is true in life.
0:21:34 If you want to score above your weight class professionally
0:21:36 and romantically, it’s a function
0:21:37 of how much risk you’re willing to take.
0:21:38 – I agree with that.
0:21:40 I’m just surprised that you’re making the genetic argument.
0:21:42 I’m down to hear it out.
0:21:44 It’s the first time I’ve heard this from you.
0:21:49 That Americans are genetically predisposed to taking risks.
0:21:51 And perhaps that is the explanation
0:21:53 behind their false wealth.
0:21:57 My parents came to the U.S. on a steamship
0:22:01 with like three or $400, that was enormous risk.
0:22:04 And also that’s why immigrants are so incredibly powerful.
0:22:06 They not only work harder, they’re like,
0:22:09 I just fucking crawled under a fence and avoided dogs
0:22:14 and left my family and left my sick mother to come here.
0:22:20 That risk-taking DNA is everywhere in our gene pool.
0:22:22 And it’s not, it’s not in Europe.
0:22:23 So the fact they’re doing this.
0:22:26 – Yeah, culturally, I think Europe feels
0:22:29 and has felt for generations that they have more to lose.
0:22:31 They’ve basically just rested on their laurels.
0:22:33 And it’s interesting to see that this is happening
0:22:35 only after America did it.
0:22:38 It’s also happening only after China came out
0:22:39 with deep seek.
0:22:42 The fact that, I think everyone is surprised to see,
0:22:44 oh, wow, Europe is committing to AI,
0:22:46 but they’re only down to do it once America did it.
0:22:48 And then once China basically showed them,
0:22:51 you guys are behind the curve.
0:22:55 So, they’re taking the risk, but after everyone else did.
0:22:56 – Well, Europe has to do something
0:22:59 because Europe, if you look at the rise of China,
0:23:01 it actually, so China has grown its economy
0:23:04 much faster than the global economy.
0:23:07 And it has the second most billionaires behind the U.S.
0:23:09 And it hasn’t come at the cost of the U.S. though.
0:23:11 The U.S. has maintained its share of GDP,
0:23:13 its share of billionaires, its share of growth.
0:23:15 It’s come at the cost of Europe.
0:23:17 And so Europe needs to take a page
0:23:21 out of that hard-working playbook of China
0:23:24 and that risk-taking playbook of the United States.
0:23:26 And without government subsidies
0:23:27 and encouraged people to take these risks,
0:23:29 it’s just not gonna happen.
0:23:30 – We’ll be right back after the break
0:23:32 with a look at Reddit.
0:23:33 And if you’re enjoying the show so far,
0:23:35 be sure to give Proffview Markets a follow
0:23:37 wherever you get your podcasts.
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0:27:08 (upbeat music)
0:27:15 We’re back with ProfG Markets.
0:27:16 Reddit reported fourth-quarter earnings
0:27:19 that largely beat analyst expectations
0:27:22 with sales up 71% from a year earlier.
0:27:24 It also posted its second quarterly profit
0:27:25 since going public.
0:27:29 However, the stock dropped more than 13%
0:27:32 after user growth missed expectations.
0:27:33 CEO Steve Huffman explained
0:27:35 that a change in Google search algorithm
0:27:38 led to, quote, volatility in user growth,
0:27:42 but assured investors that traffic has since recovered.
0:27:47 Scott, you are a pretty significant Reddit shareholder.
0:27:50 What are your initial reactions here?
0:27:51 – Look, I’m just pissed off.
0:27:52 Now, after this drawdown today,
0:27:56 I’m only up 500%, not 600, so…
0:27:58 – Is that true? Is that the number?
0:28:01 – Well, it priced at $35.
0:28:02 – Let’s find out the number.
0:28:05 – It priced at $35, it’s at 200.
0:28:08 So what is that, up about 450%?
0:28:09 – Yeah, okay.
0:28:11 – And that’s in seven months?
0:28:12 – Yeah.
0:28:16 – Look, this was a fucking layup.
0:28:20 This was, if you believe we’re in an attention economy
0:28:24 and you can transition or arbitrage
0:28:27 or turn, convert attention into dollars,
0:28:30 this company still has a long way to go.
0:28:34 And that is, I mean, it was up 71% year on year.
0:28:36 Average revenue was up 28%,
0:28:38 net income quadrupled to 71 million.
0:28:40 I think that a lot of people just said,
0:28:42 okay, with this kind of valuation,
0:28:44 maybe it’s gotten out over its skis,
0:28:45 but I think it’s already recovered
0:28:47 some of those losses today.
0:28:48 It’s an asset-like company,
0:28:52 it’s got sort of meta-like margins of 93%.
0:28:54 Meta’s gross margins were 82%,
0:28:56 ’cause they keep making these ridiculous
0:28:59 capex investments and things like headsets.
0:29:01 Get this, because of Alphabet’s big investments
0:29:06 in cloud and AI, their gross margins are 58%.
0:29:09 Apple’s was 47%, which makes sense,
0:29:11 ’cause they’re on hardware,
0:29:14 but gross margins at the fourth or fifth
0:29:17 most traffic side in the world are 93%.
0:29:21 So I would argue, and see above, shareholder,
0:29:26 I mean, it’s still, I don’t wanna say it looks cheap.
0:29:27 It’s hard to think of something
0:29:29 up four and a half-folder looks cheap,
0:29:31 but its worth is between 50 and 60.
0:29:36 It’s 1/50th the value of sites above and behind it.
0:29:37 So now the problem is,
0:29:39 it hasn’t been able to monetize as well,
0:29:43 but with year-on-year revenue increases of 70 plus percent,
0:29:47 it appears that it’s doing pretty well.
0:29:51 The problem is, unless its monetization comes up,
0:29:55 its average revenue per user was $4.20,
0:29:57 but meta is about three and a half times higher.
0:30:00 So on a book level, it looks expensive.
0:30:01 Their key is very straightforward.
0:30:04 They got the traffic, that’s usually the hard part.
0:30:05 They have to show their ability
0:30:08 to continue to increase our poo,
0:30:12 but the takeaway also going second order of fact,
0:30:17 we’ve said that as it relates to podcasting,
0:30:20 that there’s going to be this incredible dynamism
0:30:22 in the podcasting space over the next 12 months,
0:30:24 where you’re gonna see at the top 100 podcasts,
0:30:25 you’re gonna see 50 new ones,
0:30:27 and you’re gonna see 50 dropout,
0:30:29 and the arbiter of that churn is gonna be YouTube,
0:30:32 which is now the largest distribution platform
0:30:33 for podcasts.
0:30:35 People spending more time listening to podcasts on YouTube
0:30:37 than on Apple or Spotify.
0:30:41 I think in 2026, the arbiter of podcasts
0:30:44 and the biggest growing distribution mechanism of podcasts
0:30:45 is gonna be Reddit.
0:30:48 I think Reddit is so perfect for podcasting.
0:30:52 Think about the discussions, the threads, and the audience.
0:30:54 I think if you could figure out a way to distribute
0:30:58 clips, full podcasts, live podcasts,
0:31:00 it to me, it’s just out of central casting
0:31:04 to become the Spotify or the YouTube of podcasting.
0:31:05 – That’s very interesting.
0:31:07 I didn’t expect you to say that.
0:31:11 I mean, you mentioned the valuation there,
0:31:12 that perhaps it’s undervalued.
0:31:13 I’m with you.
0:31:16 I think this is still undervalued.
0:31:20 And I think dropping 13% after that quarter,
0:31:21 I don’t think was warranted.
0:31:24 The thing that Wall Street was upset about clearly
0:31:26 was the user number.
0:31:31 So users grew 39% to 101.7 million.
0:31:34 Investors were expecting 103 million.
0:31:37 And I think what really freaked them out
0:31:40 was what Reddit said about this change
0:31:41 in the Google search algorithm.
0:31:44 So you might remember last year,
0:31:47 Reddit got this big boost because Google changed
0:31:49 how it ranks search results.
0:31:51 It was called the hidden gems update.
0:31:55 And the new Google algorithm basically prioritized
0:31:57 what they called authentic content.
0:32:00 So that is content that is user generated
0:32:01 that you find on forums,
0:32:05 that you find on chat rooms, i.e Reddit.
0:32:08 So this was a great thing for Reddit last year.
0:32:10 Now, according to the CEO,
0:32:13 this quarter or this last quarter,
0:32:15 Google changed the algorithm again.
0:32:17 And we don’t really know why or what exactly changed,
0:32:20 but that was why you saw this quote volatility
0:32:21 in the user growth.
0:32:24 And I think that’s what upset Wall Street here,
0:32:27 this idea that Reddit is too reliant on Google.
0:32:30 They’re not growing organically on their own.
0:32:33 And so when Google changes their algorithm,
0:32:35 suddenly that causes a problem for their growth.
0:32:37 I think that’s a fair criticism.
0:32:40 I think the bigger criticism of Reddit though,
0:32:42 and this is a bull case,
0:32:46 is they just punch below their weight on everything.
0:32:48 Ninth most visited website in the world
0:32:51 is higher than Netflix, it’s higher than Amazon.
0:32:54 You’ve got 100 million daily active users.
0:32:57 So these people are using it every single day.
0:32:58 They don’t release the monthly active users,
0:33:02 but it’s estimated to be around a billion,
0:33:05 a billion people using this once a month, at least.
0:33:09 And yet the company is worth only $35 billion.
0:33:13 It’s less than a tenth of the value of Netflix.
0:33:16 And so we’re talking about this as a team,
0:33:20 and Mia did this really interesting analysis.
0:33:22 So we were discussing like the cultural significance
0:33:27 of Reddit, the idea, how important is Reddit to society?
0:33:31 And we landed on this term, mind share.
0:33:33 And we wanted to figure out a way
0:33:35 to kind of quantify that for Reddit.
0:33:38 Is there a way to come up with a score
0:33:40 for the amount of mind share that Reddit has
0:33:43 in people’s minds and their conversations
0:33:44 in society at large?
0:33:47 So Mia did this analysis.
0:33:49 She looked at website visits.
0:33:53 She looked at mentions on TV, Wikipedia page views,
0:33:58 job search volume, how many analysts track the stock,
0:34:00 et cetera, et cetera, all these different metrics
0:34:02 to kind of get a gauge for this mind share.
0:34:04 And then she came out with a weighted average
0:34:06 and we called it the mind share score.
0:34:10 And what she found is that Reddit’s mind share rating
0:34:12 is only four times lower than Google’s.
0:34:14 But if you look at the market cap,
0:34:16 it’s more than 60 times lower.
0:34:18 So in other words, if you were to look at Reddit
0:34:20 as a multiple of mind share, and let’s be clear,
0:34:22 this is very non-gap.
0:34:25 We came up with these metrics on our own.
0:34:26 But if you looked at it as a multiple of mind share,
0:34:29 Reddit is severely undervalued.
0:34:31 And so this begs the question,
0:34:34 like what does Reddit need to start doing
0:34:36 to start punching above its weight?
0:34:39 Or at least to live up to the expectations
0:34:43 that come with the fact that you are a top 10 website
0:34:45 in the world that everyone knows who you are.
0:34:48 Everyone who uses the internet is using Reddit
0:34:50 in some sense, we use it all the time.
0:34:54 And we have our Reddit page, which I love
0:34:56 and we love engaging on that.
0:35:00 But the company is still very small relative to its peers.
0:35:01 So what do you think it would take?
0:35:03 I guess you mentioned the podcast there,
0:35:05 but what else do you think it would take
0:35:06 for Reddit to start punching
0:35:09 at least in line with or above its weight?
0:35:14 – My father peaked at the age of about 48 or 49 professionally.
0:35:19 And then he was the national sales manager for OM Scots,
0:35:20 a fertilizer company,
0:35:23 which I realized was a kind of a weak flex.
0:35:27 But he used to roam around to like the equivalent of Lowe’s
0:35:31 and Home Depot’s and Sears and become buddies
0:35:34 with the person in charge of lawn care,
0:35:36 the lawn care outdoor department there.
0:35:38 And my dad is super fucking charming.
0:35:42 I mean, ridiculously charming.
0:35:45 And then sell them basically bags of shit.
0:35:53 Anyways, but that was when he peaked and then he went on
0:35:56 and then he’d started a string of four or five divorces
0:36:00 and then left me, hold me, hold me.
0:36:01 Anyways, he used to say to me,
0:36:04 he had all these like tests to decide
0:36:06 if I’d be a good salesperson or not.
0:36:09 And I remember we used to sell subscriptions and whatever
0:36:12 and sorry to test if you would be a good sales person.
0:36:14 – Yeah, he thought sales is everything.
0:36:17 And he used to sign me up for stuff,
0:36:21 like selling magazine subscriptions.
0:36:23 And he used to give me a thing and he’d say,
0:36:27 this is your wrap and he’d practice with me at the door
0:36:30 and he’d send me out on a Saturday.
0:36:32 And then basically like mothers used to say
0:36:34 the Roman warriors come home with your shield or on it.
0:36:36 And he’s like, how many subscriptions
0:36:37 do you think you’re gonna get?
0:36:38 He’d give me a quota.
0:36:40 – I’m like eight fucking years old.
0:36:41 – I kind of love this.
0:36:42 – I was eight.
0:36:43 – I’m sure it was traumatizing.
0:36:44 I was eight. – I was eight.
0:36:47 – And I’d roam around the shores community
0:36:49 in Laguna Niguel and I’d knock on doors
0:36:50 and I’d say, hi, I’m Skye Callaway.
0:36:52 I met whatever it was, Emily to,
0:36:53 and we’re doing a magazine drive
0:36:55 to try and raise money for our school.
0:36:57 I live down the road.
0:36:59 And he’d say, throwing your interest.
0:37:00 And I’m like, I liked the big wheel
0:37:02 and I like I dream a genie.
0:37:06 And he’d be like, no, don’t say I dream a genie.
0:37:07 And I’m like, he’d say something else.
0:37:10 I’m like, Brady Bunch is like, better, more wholesome.
0:37:12 And I’d roam around the neighborhood.
0:37:14 – This explains so much.
0:37:16 – I’d roam around the neighborhood
0:37:17 and I’m not exaggerating it.
0:37:21 I sold more subscriptions to Life and Readers Digest
0:37:24 and any nine-year-old in Emily to elementary school history.
0:37:28 And he used to have all these tests for me
0:37:31 around whether I’d be a good sales person or not.
0:37:32 Who am I kidding?
0:37:35 Salesman, they didn’t have any women back there, so.
0:37:37 And one of his tests that I remember
0:37:39 is he used to, or this adage he used to have is that
0:37:42 a salesman, a shoe salesman goes to Africa.
0:37:45 Two salesmen go to Africa.
0:37:46 And one comes back and says,
0:37:48 yeah, it’s never gonna work here.
0:37:50 Nobody wears any shoes.
0:37:51 And then the second comes back and goes,
0:37:53 oh my God, this is amazing.
0:37:54 Nobody has any shoes.
0:37:57 And it reminds me a bit of what you’re saying
0:38:02 because the fact that their valuation in an art pool
0:38:05 are so low relative to the space they command,
0:38:08 that’s this is amazing, no one has any shoes.
0:38:10 And that is you kind of answer your own question.
0:38:12 There’s a lot of upside here.
0:38:16 And if they keep growing revenues 73% a year,
0:38:18 they’re gonna catch up pretty quick.
0:38:21 If there is this much room to run as you say,
0:38:23 and which by the way, I agree with,
0:38:25 I think there’s huge opportunity.
0:38:29 Shouldn’t they be burning money?
0:38:31 I mean, this is the other thing that stood out to me
0:38:34 is that they are now profitable.
0:38:37 They were profitable the quarter before this
0:38:39 and then they were profitable last quarter.
0:38:43 And it feels like they’ve now tatted themselves
0:38:45 to earning a profit.
0:38:47 But I feel like what we’re describing
0:38:52 is a nascent company that should arguably be losing money
0:38:54 trying to invest in growth,
0:38:56 trying to get more users,
0:38:57 trying to acquire customers,
0:39:00 trying to figure out a monetization strategy.
0:39:05 But instead, they’re churning out $71 million in net income
0:39:09 out of $35 billion market cap.
0:39:12 And I look at that and I see bigger things for this company.
0:39:15 Couldn’t they think bigger and just lose money
0:39:17 at least for a couple more years
0:39:19 until they really get some traction?
0:39:20 – I think you’re right.
0:39:25 My advice to Steven Huffman would be an is growth.
0:39:28 At this point, just growth.
0:39:29 And the problem is when you go profitable,
0:39:34 it’s hard to go back because everyone will say,
0:39:37 Reddit slips back into losing money.
0:39:40 And for them, it’s all about,
0:39:41 at this point, it’s all about growth
0:39:43 and closing that delta you’re talking about
0:39:48 where market cap and revenue is equivalent to attention.
0:39:51 I would have found ways to spend that money,
0:39:54 more partnerships, more salespeople,
0:39:57 more content, more original content.
0:39:59 That’s eventually where they will go.
0:40:03 This is, I mean, when you think about it,
0:40:05 Reddit was probably would have been
0:40:08 one of the better acquisitions before they’d gone public
0:40:10 for any one of a number of companies, right?
0:40:14 But they, I agree with you, I wouldn’t have gone,
0:40:17 I would have spent more aggressively to get growth
0:40:20 from 72% to 80 or 90% or extend it longer.
0:40:23 – I don’t think shareholders want dividends at this point.
0:40:27 I think they wanna see 100% user growth.
0:40:27 – Yeah, they want growth.
0:40:29 – And whatever, if you’re losing money.
0:40:30 – Yeah, I think that’s right.
0:40:31 – We’ll be right back.
0:40:34 And by the way, we’ll be taping this podcast live
0:40:37 at South by Southwest on March 10th.
0:40:42 Head to voxmedia.com/sxsw to learn how to join us.
0:40:44 Hope to see you there.
0:40:46 (upbeat music)
0:40:57 Thumbtack presents the ins and outs of caring for your home.
0:41:02 Out, uncertainty, self-doubt,
0:41:04 stressing about not knowing where to start.
0:41:08 In, plans and guides that make it easy
0:41:09 to get home projects done.
0:41:14 Out, word art, sorry, live laugh lovers.
0:41:19 In, knowing what to do, when to do it, and who to hire.
0:41:23 Start caring for your home with confidence.
0:41:25 Download Thumbtack today.
0:41:30 – Introducing the new McSpicy from McDonald’s.
0:41:32 It looks like a regular chicken sandwich,
0:41:35 but it’s actually a spicy chicken sandwich.
0:41:40 McSpicy, consider yourself warned, limited time only.
0:41:43 I participate in McDonald’s in Canada.
0:41:44 – We’re taking Vox Media podcast on the road
0:41:46 and heading back to Austin
0:41:49 for the South by Southwest Festival, March 8th to the 10th.
0:41:51 What a thrill.
0:41:53 We’ll be doing special live episodes
0:41:54 and pitch shows, including Pivot.
0:41:57 That’s right, that dog’s going to the great state of Texas.
0:41:59 Where should we begin?
0:42:02 With Esther Perrell, a touch more with Sue Bird
0:42:04 and Megan Rapinoe, not just football
0:42:08 with Cam Hayward and more, presented by Smartsheet.
0:42:11 The Vox Media podcast stage at South by Southwest
0:42:14 is open to all South by Southwest badge holders.
0:42:16 We hope to see you at the Austin Convention Center soon.
0:42:21 Visit voxmedia.com/sxsw to learn more.
0:42:25 And that’s voxmedia.com/sxsw.
0:42:36 – We’re back with Prof. G Markets.
0:42:38 Netflix is exploring the possibility
0:42:41 of expanding into video podcasts.
0:42:42 The streaming giant has reportedly reached out
0:42:44 to high-profile podcasters,
0:42:47 including Alex Cooper of Call Her Daddy,
0:42:49 to create talk-based video shows.
0:42:51 Though Cooper is currently under a three-year deal
0:42:54 with SiriusXM, while still in the early stages,
0:42:57 Netflix is reportedly considering two strategies,
0:43:00 securing exclusive content from top podcasters,
0:43:04 or providing access to existing shows without ads.
0:43:08 Scott, let’s get your take on this potential move.
0:43:09 But I think the real question is,
0:43:10 I mean, I’m just reading out this headline,
0:43:13 reportedly reached out to high-profile podcasters.
0:43:15 Have you gotten a phone call?
0:43:18 – So Amy Atkins was this woman in high school.
0:43:21 I had this enormous crush on.
0:43:22 I just want to point out,
0:43:25 I love that the answer, which I expect to be no,
0:43:26 it must be delivered as a parable.
0:43:32 – I was so in love with Amy Atkins,
0:43:35 and she kind of pretended to like me and da-da-da.
0:43:37 And then she shows up one day and says,
0:43:40 oh, this is my boyfriend, Sean.
0:43:43 And I’m like, oh, and I wanted to strangle him.
0:43:47 And I’m like, wait, you got a boyfriend and it’s not me.
0:43:50 And anyways, I’m not exaggerating.
0:43:53 I sent an email to Ted Zarandos last night.
0:43:56 And I’m like, fucking Alex Cooper?
0:43:59 Alex Cooper?
0:44:00 – What did you say?
0:44:03 What exactly did you say?
0:44:06 – I don’t know Ted well, but I know him.
0:44:10 And by the way, he’s like an incredibly decent,
0:44:12 nice, thoughtful man.
0:44:15 And obviously built this amazing company.
0:44:18 But I got to be honest, I felt a little like,
0:44:19 who’s this guy, Sean?
0:44:24 I find out in Business Insider, you’re interested in podcast.
0:44:25 I got nothing.
0:44:26 He didn’t call me.
0:44:28 He didn’t call me for advice.
0:44:30 He didn’t send me a message saying,
0:44:32 oh, you and Ed and Kara’s name came up,
0:44:34 but we decided that we don’t want to be in news
0:44:36 or you dropped too many F-bombs on CNN.
0:44:41 Nothing, just news that he’s dating Alex Cooper.
0:44:46 So no, we did not hear from Netflix.
0:44:49 And I read about it and it just kind of,
0:44:52 so back to the actual story here,
0:44:54 it makes all the sense in the world.
0:44:56 And people are constantly saying,
0:44:57 okay, will Netflix go into sports?
0:44:59 No, well, they didn’t know they go to sports.
0:45:03 Will Netflix go into, you know, live?
0:45:04 Will they go into gaming?
0:45:06 They’re going into,
0:45:09 if there’s a tension there and a chance to get subscriptions
0:45:10 and differentiate their offering,
0:45:12 you should assume they’re gonna go there.
0:45:14 And it makes all the sense in the world
0:45:17 because the primary arbiter of the next evolution
0:45:21 of the fastest growing out supported medium podcast is video.
0:45:23 And the guy who’s about to displace
0:45:24 or one of our predictions
0:45:26 is the guy who’s gonna displace Joe Rogan
0:45:27 as the biggest podcaster in the world,
0:45:29 is this guy, Steven Bartlett,
0:45:34 because he got very serious about video production quality,
0:45:39 optimizing Mr. Beasting, his thumbnails, different titles.
0:45:42 He called me, I was on with Constantine,
0:45:44 I forget his name, the thoughtful conservative kid.
0:45:45 Constantine Kissen.
0:45:47 And then this third guy, whose name I forgot,
0:45:48 he was also very thoughtful.
0:45:51 They, Steven Bartlett brought us on
0:45:53 to talk about the state of the world.
0:45:54 And I was supposed to represent America.
0:45:56 And every comment was that douchebag prof
0:45:58 does not represent America.
0:46:02 Anyways, he called me or no, he didn’t call me.
0:46:05 He texted me, he left me a voice memo the next day
0:46:07 and said, this is gonna be,
0:46:09 this will do four million views.
0:46:10 This is amazing, congratulations.
0:46:12 And I immediately went to YouTube
0:46:15 and it was like 63,000, I’m like, it’s at 63,000.
0:46:17 He’s like, oh no, our algorithms have already figured out
0:46:19 it’s gonna be around four million.
0:46:22 That’s how sophisticated he is around video,
0:46:26 is that within a half an hour of putting it on YouTube,
0:46:28 he knows how big the video is gonna be.
0:46:30 And they do all these A/B testing.
0:46:34 And what he does on his pod is he will go to New York
0:46:37 for a month, go to LA for a month, and he does,
0:46:39 he demands in-person interviews.
0:46:42 The thing I did with Constantine was the first time
0:46:44 they had ever done a podcast remotely.
0:46:47 He demands, again, for video production quality.
0:46:50 While everyone is trying to get rid of the studio,
0:46:51 he’s going the other way.
0:46:53 And Rich Roll does the same thing.
0:46:55 Rich Roll forces you to go out to Agura Hills,
0:46:56 which is not fun.
0:46:57 – Shout out Rich, love Rich.
0:46:58 – Oh, he’s fantastic.
0:47:00 He’s the kind of guy you want as a big brother.
0:47:02 He’s so thoughtful and soulful and handsome.
0:47:05 And you’re like, I’m coming back as Rich Roll.
0:47:07 But he makes you go out to Agura Hills
0:47:09 and he has all these, like Steven Barlett,
0:47:10 he has all these cameramen
0:47:12 and he must have spent a ton of money early on,
0:47:16 gave up all his profits, imported into video.
0:47:17 That is the new arbiter.
0:47:20 And when you think about the premiere video platform,
0:47:22 YouTube, number two is Netflix.
0:47:24 And I imagine Netflix will go high-end
0:47:27 and they’ll say to someone like fucking Caller Daddy
0:47:28 or some other bullshit.
0:47:32 He’ll say, we’ll make this really cool and interesting.
0:47:35 And by the way, if you’re looking to be
0:47:36 the number one podcast in the world,
0:47:39 we can do that with a simple tweak of the algorithm.
0:47:43 And in 36 hours, by putting you on the homepage of Netflix
0:47:47 for 36 hours, it’s one of those things I wish I thought of.
0:47:49 And that is Netflix will overnight
0:47:51 be able to take, they’ll own a bunch of podcasts.
0:47:54 They might start early by just being a distribution platform,
0:47:57 learning about it, making some ad revenue.
0:47:58 And then they will go vertical
0:48:00 and either launch their own or buy some.
0:48:05 And they will make, I would bet within 24 to 36 months,
0:48:07 three of the 10-pigas podcasts in the world
0:48:12 are owned by Netflix because they have the platform,
0:48:13 they can put it everywhere
0:48:16 and then they can maybe distribute it to YouTube,
0:48:18 put it on Apple and Spotify a week later,
0:48:21 members get it a week early, whatever it might be.
0:48:23 But this just makes, this is right as rain.
0:48:25 – Yeah, I think it’s right as rain.
0:48:28 I don’t think it’s gonna play out the way you’ve described.
0:48:30 I mean, I think the question is like,
0:48:32 what is this going to actually look like?
0:48:34 And I think the scenario you’re describing
0:48:38 is Netflix takes kind of the Spotify strategy
0:48:39 where you reach out to these podcasters
0:48:41 and you offer them these exclusive deals
0:48:44 to be the exclusive platform for that podcast.
0:48:48 I’d call that like the Spotify Joe Rogan strategy.
0:48:51 I personally don’t think it’s gonna look like that.
0:48:53 I think it’s gonna look a little bit more
0:48:57 like the MrBeast Amazon deal
0:49:01 where Amazon paid MrBeast $100 million
0:49:04 to create just one TV series with MrBeast,
0:49:07 which is now out and you can watch it right now.
0:49:09 Meanwhile, MrBeast is free
0:49:11 to keep posting his videos on YouTube.
0:49:14 So in other words, I think Netflix
0:49:18 isn’t necessarily going off to podcasting the medium.
0:49:21 I think they’re going off to podcasters the talent.
0:49:25 And that’s gonna be an incredible thing
0:49:28 for people like Alex Cooper and for Joe Rogan
0:49:30 and Theo Vaughn and all these people.
0:49:32 All of these people who’ve kind of become
0:49:35 like the new Hollywood superstars.
0:49:36 I mean, you think about how it’s changed.
0:49:39 These people are the Jennifer Aniston’s
0:49:41 and the Ben Stiller’s of our time.
0:49:44 And I think that’s what Netflix is really excited about
0:49:45 and they wanna capitalize on that.
0:49:49 Not necessarily to be the new podcast platform,
0:49:51 but certainly to be the platform that owns
0:49:54 or at least has some level of relationship
0:49:56 with the biggest stars in the world.
0:49:59 And it just so happens, the biggest stars in the world today,
0:50:00 they’re making podcasts.
0:50:02 That’s kind of what they do now.
0:50:04 – Yeah, the name, I love your take.
0:50:06 And the name that just jumps out,
0:50:07 it makes all kinds of sense is Theo Vaughn
0:50:09 ’cause he’s also a comedian.
0:50:11 I mean, they could say to Theo,
0:50:15 we’ll double or triple the size of your podcast audience.
0:50:16 And by the way, we’re gonna sign you up
0:50:20 for a four one hour comedy special on Netflix.
0:50:23 And we’re gonna pay you a crazy amount of money.
0:50:26 And basically, if you want access to Theo Vaughn,
0:50:27 which tens of millions of people do,
0:50:31 he’s got such a nice authentic vibe about him.
0:50:34 Where can you find Theo Vaughn on Netflix?
0:50:37 I think you wrote about this in a No Mercino Malice post.
0:50:39 We’ve got a little too much attention for my liking.
0:50:44 But you talked about, it’s no longer about brands,
0:50:45 it’s about people.
0:50:46 – People of the new brands.
0:50:48 – You know, people of the new brands.
0:50:49 I mean, I just think about the potential
0:50:50 of my mind spinning.
0:50:52 The guy’s from Smarlis.
0:50:53 By the way, I was on their podcast,
0:50:54 but I haven’t put it out yet.
0:50:56 I don’t know, I recorded like three weeks ago.
0:50:59 But anyways, those guys are just so good on TV
0:51:00 and they’re so funny.
0:51:01 – They’re interesting because they already
0:51:02 were Hollywood stars.
0:51:03 – That’s right.
0:51:04 – Then they switched.
0:51:05 They could come back again.
0:51:05 – That’s right.
0:51:08 But they’re all really appealing on camera.
0:51:09 – And let’s be clear.
0:51:11 I think you would be amazing too.
0:51:13 – I’m sorry, when did you say it?
0:51:14 – I’m sorry.
0:51:15 – Go ahead.
0:51:15 – I’m not gonna repeat it.
0:51:17 I said it once.
0:51:18 I think that would be an incredible idea.
0:51:21 I don’t think that it should be CNN Plus.
0:51:22 I don’t think it should be,
0:51:24 I mean, maybe let’s take this opportunity
0:51:25 to think about it.
0:51:26 I mean, if–
0:51:27 – You’re talking your own book here
0:51:29 ’cause when we go out, people come up to you.
0:51:30 They’re like, oh, hi, Scott.
0:51:32 And they literally run over me to,
0:51:34 and I have my, I’d like, are you taken?
0:51:37 I have a daughter at SMU.
0:51:38 – It’s always, I have a daughter.
0:51:42 – Well, yeah, is there anything wrong with that?
0:51:45 But they want to, yeah, yeah, you’re,
0:51:47 I’m like, we’re that movie, The Substance,
0:51:49 and I’m definitely Demi Moore.
0:51:51 And you’re like the hot young chick
0:51:53 I did emerge from my body.
0:51:56 – Anyways, have you seen The Substance?
0:51:58 – I haven’t seen it, but that makes sense.
0:52:01 But let’s just think about it for a second.
0:52:04 Like, what do you think a Scott Galloway Netflix show
0:52:06 should look like?
0:52:08 And I think that this is an opportunity to think,
0:52:12 like, imagine we are a Netflix producer.
0:52:14 Like, what kind of content do you think
0:52:16 people are looking from podcasters?
0:52:19 Because I will say, I don’t think it’s just a video podcast.
0:52:21 They can already get that on YouTube.
0:52:22 They can already get that on Spotify.
0:52:26 I also don’t think it’s whatever the fuck CNN+ was.
0:52:28 Something about that didn’t work.
0:52:29 It was maybe-
0:52:30 – Jake Tapper’s book club?
0:52:31 – Exactly.
0:52:32 – That wasn’t riveting content?
0:52:33 – It’s too, it’s too produced.
0:52:35 You lose all of the authentic feel
0:52:37 that you get with the podcast
0:52:39 and with that relationship with podcasters.
0:52:42 Like, what do you think a good Netflix show
0:52:45 for a podcaster would look like?
0:52:46 – Well, it’d be Scott and Ed.
0:52:51 So I think, I think eventually Netflix goes into news
0:52:52 and they do a loop where they,
0:52:55 so a daily business update
0:52:57 where it’s more highly produced,
0:52:59 more graphics, more visuals.
0:53:02 And also, if you were gonna do a regular podcast
0:53:03 every week, what I think you’d wanna do,
0:53:07 if you’re talking about your guests as Richard Reeves,
0:53:08 you take 15 or 20 minutes
0:53:10 and you go talk to parents and young men.
0:53:12 You just, quite frankly, you take podcasting
0:53:15 and you just massively increase the production value.
0:53:17 ‘Cause right now the means of production are,
0:53:19 and this is the thing I love about podcasting
0:53:23 and the thing that scares me about this
0:53:24 is the means of production
0:53:27 are basically what looks like a toiletry kit for me.
0:53:31 And that is Drew, who’s our tech wizard,
0:53:33 puts together this little Dopp kit for me
0:53:36 and it’s the size, it’s smaller than a lunch pail
0:53:38 or like literally like a toiletry kit.
0:53:41 And I can take it anywhere and pull out my mic,
0:53:44 probably get into my laptop and boom, I’m podcasting.
0:53:46 The game is gonna be upped
0:53:47 and you’re gonna see podcasts
0:53:49 where it’s an hour-long podcast,
0:53:50 but they’ll do breakouts.
0:53:52 And when we’re talking about Reddit,
0:53:54 it breaks to like a three-minute thing
0:53:56 where they’re interviewing the CEO
0:53:58 or they use amazing visuals to go online
0:54:01 and talk about Reddit and what’s interesting about it.
0:54:03 But the game, the bar is gonna be raised
0:54:07 and they have such incredible depth of talent
0:54:10 that they’ll be able to say, okay, Scott and Ed,
0:54:12 if you wanna do a daily market show,
0:54:15 we have an unbelievable production team
0:54:17 in not only in New Jersey, but in Madrid.
0:54:20 And when you’re done recording at 7 p.m.,
0:54:22 we have our folks in LA take it over,
0:54:24 then they throw it over the wall to the folks in Madrid
0:54:25 at three in the morning,
0:54:27 where it’s eight in the morning, their time,
0:54:32 and they produce just this really impressive podcast
0:54:34 meets Hollywood, if you will.
0:54:38 Let me what is it, the days of me just tapping in
0:54:41 from the Dolphin Hotel and Walt Disney World
0:54:44 and getting a quarter of a million people to listen that day
0:54:46 with the bad curtains in the background.
0:54:49 I’m not sure that shit’s gonna survive.
0:54:50 – Well, that is the big question.
0:54:51 Can you do that?
0:54:54 Can you invest that much, bring in that many people
0:54:56 and maintain the level of authenticity
0:54:58 that you get on podcasts?
0:55:00 I would argue, I don’t think-
0:55:01 – That’s a great point.
0:55:02 – It’s possible to do that.
0:55:04 I think the more highly produced you get,
0:55:07 the less real things start to feel.
0:55:08 And there’s something-
0:55:08 – It’s interesting.
0:55:12 – There’s something nice about you being in a hotel
0:55:13 and there’s a curtain behind you
0:55:16 and we can actually see what is happening in your life
0:55:19 because as I’ve said, I think the thing that people crave
0:55:21 most is connection with people.
0:55:22 This is what I wrote about in that blog post,
0:55:24 “People of the New Brands”.
0:55:27 They crave connection with real people
0:55:28 because of this issue with loneliness
0:55:30 that we keep on seeing.
0:55:34 And I don’t think that a highly produced Netflix series
0:55:37 is going to be the kind of thing that addresses
0:55:40 that level of connectivity and authenticity
0:55:42 that you get with podcasts.
0:55:44 – We should tease, we’re thinking,
0:55:46 oh, I’m not thinking, we’ve decided Propg Markets,
0:55:51 which is the fastest growing part of our podcast empire.
0:55:53 We’re going to go to daily.
0:55:55 And one of the things we’re talking about is,
0:55:57 all right, Scott’s traveling all the time.
0:55:59 Scott doesn’t want to work that hard.
0:56:02 And how do we incorporate Scott into a daily show?
0:56:04 And you guys came up with this notion of,
0:56:06 and it’s being doing authenticity,
0:56:08 that it’s like, where in the world is Scott?
0:56:11 And I would literally tap in on my phone wherever I am
0:56:13 and just provide a viewpoint in your view and Claire’s view.
0:56:15 And I thought it was really insightful,
0:56:19 was rather than trying to mimic 80% of the production value
0:56:21 when I’m in studio, just put it on your phone.
0:56:24 And it’s just wherever you are at that moment,
0:56:27 and Ed is asking questions or you’re giving your view,
0:56:31 but go the other way and make it very raw.
0:56:34 Like live from the bar at Maison Estelle
0:56:36 or wherever I’m getting drunk.
0:56:38 Scott, go into a bathroom stall
0:56:40 and tell us what you think about the Reddit earnings.
0:56:43 But I thought that was really interesting,
0:56:45 but whatever Netflix does,
0:56:47 everything is sort of colliding back
0:56:49 to where what’s old is new again, right?
0:56:51 We’re kind of reassembling the cable bundle.
0:56:54 It’s advertising, but it’s also subscription.
0:56:58 But I think that podcasts are gonna become more like TV
0:57:01 than TV is gonna become like podcasts.
0:57:02 Anyways, I think it’s gonna be fascinating to see,
0:57:06 but it’s just, you hear this and you just know
0:57:09 in 24 months, there’s a non-zero probability
0:57:14 that what everyone’s talking about YouTube and podcasts,
0:57:16 people are gonna start talking about Netflix and podcasts.
0:57:18 I also think Reddit, it’s about who controls,
0:57:20 who has custody of the consumer,
0:57:22 who has the trust and the direct vertical interface
0:57:23 with the consumer.
0:57:26 – Okay, let’s take a look at the week out.
0:57:29 We’ll see earnings from Walmart and Alibaba.
0:57:33 We’ll also see consumer sentiment data for February.
0:57:34 Do you have any predictions for us, Scott?
0:57:35 – I can’t help it.
0:57:37 I’m a broken clock here.
0:57:39 Tesla is imploding.
0:57:40 It’s absolutely imploding.
0:57:44 It’s sales are off between 10 and 60%
0:57:46 across European nations.
0:57:50 It was off, I believe they’re off 11% in China.
0:57:54 In a growing market, BYD is producing as good a car
0:57:56 for 40% of the price.
0:57:58 They haven’t had a new vehicle,
0:58:02 a new kind of mass vehicle introduction in over six years.
0:58:05 When I’m getting into Tesla’s and I’m biased,
0:58:08 but I think they just feel stale.
0:58:09 I think the competition has caught up
0:58:11 and even surpassed them.
0:58:14 And then I think about what he’s done with the brand,
0:58:16 just trashing it with Nazi salutes,
0:58:21 like the model Tesla SS and changing his pronouns
0:58:23 to he and Himmler.
0:58:25 I just think this is gonna catch up.
0:58:29 It already is and you’re seeing sales imploding.
0:58:32 Meanwhile, it has this just ridiculous fucking multiple.
0:58:35 And I’ve always said this, that stock prices
0:58:39 are like Michael Jordan jumping from the free throw line.
0:58:42 It feels like he’s never gonna come down and he always does.
0:58:44 And fundamentals, I don’t care if you’re game stop,
0:58:46 I don’t care if you’re too social.
0:58:50 At some point, Michael Jordan hits the hardwood again.
0:58:53 I think the stock is below 200 in the next six months.
0:58:55 – Good luck, we’ve said this before.
0:58:58 They always find a way to justify it.
0:59:01 I mean, I agree with everything you said
0:59:02 and yet I don’t think it’ll happen
0:59:05 because the market always somehow, this company,
0:59:09 they just love this company, they always figure out a way
0:59:11 to say, no, no, there’s still more room to run.
0:59:12 But we’ll see.
0:59:14 – Yeah, I’m sticking to my guns here.
0:59:16 It is time, it is time.
0:59:20 – This episode was produced by Claire Miller
0:59:21 and engineered by Benjamin Spencer,
0:59:23 our associate producer is Alison Weiss.
0:59:25 Mia Silverio is our research lead.
0:59:27 Isabella Kinsel is our research associate.
0:59:29 Drew Bars is our technical director.
0:59:32 And Catherine Dillon is our executive producer.
0:59:33 Thank you for listening to “ProfG Markets”
0:59:36 from the Vox Media Podcast Network.
0:59:38 Join us on Thursday for our conversation
0:59:41 with Kyla Scanlon, only on “ProfG Markets.”
0:59:47 ♪ Lifetimes ♪
0:59:55 ♪ You help me ♪
1:00:00 ♪ In kind reunion ♪
1:00:05 ♪ As the world turns ♪
1:00:12 ♪ And the ground flies ♪
1:00:14 ♪ And loves ♪
1:00:22 – Do you wanna hear my other movie impression?
1:00:23 – Yes, please.
1:00:25 – And I’ll ask you to guess who it is.
1:00:25 – Okay.
1:00:27 – Okay, ready?
1:00:28 – How about no?
1:00:29 (laughing)
1:00:30 – Who is that?
1:00:32 – Who is that?
1:00:33 – Mike Myers, what’s the guy’s name?
1:00:35 – That’s right, that’s right.
1:00:36 – What is that movie?
1:00:37 – “The Spy I Love Me.”
1:00:40 You’re getting warmer, you’re getting warmer.
1:00:41 Mike Meyer.
1:00:43 – “Austin Powers.”
1:00:44 – There you go, very good.
1:00:46 Anyways, inflation.
1:00:48 – Yeah, speaking of inflation,
1:00:51 let’s talk about the cost of private schools in America.