0:00:06 300 bucks an hour as a content creator with no audience required. Today’s guest went from
0:00:11 zero to over a hundred grand a year on the side from her day job with a unique online business
0:00:19 centered on UGC. That’s user generated content. This is getting paid by brands to help them fill
0:00:24 their social feeds with organic looking content. Even if you’re not an influencer, even if you’re
0:00:31 not a niche expert, and even if you don’t have any following right now, from MeganCollierUGC.com.
0:00:35 Megan Collier, welcome to the Side Hustle Show. Thanks for having me, Nick. I’m excited to be here
0:00:40 and chat about UGC. This is a new, I’m like an elder millennial, so you’re gonna have to break it down
0:00:46 for me. But I’m excited to learn alongside the audience in this one. We’re covering step-by-step
0:00:51 how you can tap into the UGC gold rush, and it absolutely is a gold rush that I see going on
0:00:56 right now. How to approach brands and land your first deals, figuring out pricing and production
0:01:02 side, and how to potentially scale to hundreds of dollars an hour, maybe even a full-time income
0:01:07 stream, just like Megan did. So I want to go back. So my understanding is you’ve got a young kid at home,
0:01:12 you’re working full-time, and you kind of see this opportunity, and the goal is like, if I can just make
0:01:17 a thousand bucks a month, that would be fantastic. And then you land your very first deal, $750.
0:01:23 You’re like, okay, there’s something to this. Walk me through this first deal and how you got started.
0:01:28 Yeah, that’s basically it. You know, I was scrolling on TikTok one day randomly, like a lot of us do these
0:01:34 days. Saw somebody talking about UGC. They explained it fairly clearly. It made sense to me. And I already
0:01:40 knew that brands were, you know, they needed content because most brands are on social media. So it made
0:01:46 sense to me. And so I was like, this kind of sounds too good to be true, but I’m willing to try it out.
0:01:54 And so I did. I just kind of jumped right in. And I, yeah, I had a goal of a thousand bucks a month. I
0:02:01 thought maybe, yeah, we could pay our car payments, maybe some groceries. And yeah, I started basically,
0:02:08 I created a portfolio using products around my house that I already had created video examples. So brands
0:02:14 could kind of get to know me, my style of content. Okay. So this was stuff just, I had this lying
0:02:18 around. I need, I need a portfolio that I’m not getting paid to do this, but I need, I need something
0:02:24 to show somebody on a media kit type of deal. Exactly. Media kit portfolio. You can use them
0:02:28 simultaneously, just really one central place. And that’s what I just saw. I kind of pieced together
0:02:33 information from people I was following on TikTok that I saw doing UGC. Okay. So I’m like, okay,
0:02:39 I clearly need a portfolio. So that’s what I did. I literally, um, had two videos that I did about
0:02:45 the cat treats that we give our two cats, a toy, a toy kit that we gave our, you know,
0:02:50 that we got our son off of Amazon or something. Okay. And then, um, a travel fidget spinner. I had
0:02:56 four videos total, uh, when I hit publish on my portfolio and I just did it on Canva. It wasn’t like
0:03:01 I coded a website or built this crazy website. It was really, really simple. Yeah. Four videos
0:03:06 hit publish and I started reaching out to brands. Okay. Were those posted to your own social channels
0:03:11 or those are just like hosted on Canva at this point as a, as a placeholder or as like a place
0:03:16 to showcase those videos? Yeah. Just mainly Canva. I think I probably, I decided to start a new TikTok,
0:03:20 like taking everyone through my journey. I saw other people doing that. I’m like, okay, this would
0:03:25 probably keep me accountable to continue doing it and sharing my process, my journey starting UGC.
0:03:30 So I started a brand new TikTok and I think I posted those video examples there just because I thought
0:03:36 that’s what you should do. And so, yeah, the, yeah, the portfolio was the main thing that I sent to brands
0:03:42 though, when I was reaching out and I was reaching out to brands two ways. One is Instagram DM. I would
0:03:50 like literally just scroll Instagram, look at the ads that I was seeing on Instagram and then go and follow
0:03:57 the brand if I wasn’t already following them. And then I would DM them and say, Hey, I’m Megan. I’m a UGC
0:04:03 creator. I’ve been seeing your ads. Your product looks like something I could totally use myself. And I’d love
0:04:09 to be connected with the person in charge of handling partnerships. And I got several responses from that. That’s
0:04:15 how I landed my second UGC deal. The first one though, that you mentioned the $750 deal, uh, was
0:04:21 like 10 days into my UGC journey. And that was with an app company that I just ended up emailing cold
0:04:28 pitching via email. And, uh, yeah, they ended up hiring me for three videos initially. And then I
0:04:32 wanted to make more money and prove that I could actually do this and make a, you know, good chunk of
0:04:38 money for my first UGC deal. And so I ended up, I didn’t tell them, but I made five total videos for
0:04:44 them. And I was like, Hey, I ended up having a ton of like ideas for you guys. And I have five videos.
0:04:48 If you want to buy the other two. And they were like, Oh my gosh, yes, a hundred percent. We need
0:04:54 all the videos that we can get. Oh, okay. Okay. So then it ended up being about $750 for those five
0:05:00 videos. Okay. So step one, create the portfolio. Step two, start doing the brand outreach. And it sounds
0:05:05 like I’m just going to scroll my feed and show who showed up in the ads. Like I know they’re
0:05:10 investing in user acquisition and growth marketing. So they’re, they might be more receptive to this
0:05:14 because my, my approach would have been like, well, what are the top 25, 50 brands that I already
0:05:19 know, like, and trust and I use, and I’m going to start there. It sounds like, uh, you know,
0:05:24 maybe that, maybe that comes down the road. Honestly, I think that what works is the only
0:05:30 way to land the deal is literally by connecting with brands. So it doesn’t matter if you’re going
0:05:34 to DM, if you’re going to email, if you’re just going to start with the brands that you already
0:05:39 like, because that also is super powerful because you’re coming to the brand saying, Hey, I’ve been
0:05:44 using this product for X amount of months or X amount of years. They’ve already got that. Like
0:05:49 it’s, it’s a bonus for them because they have a real customer that’s going to be willing to make
0:05:54 some really authentic, genuine content. So yeah, a hundred percent, you can start with brands you
0:05:58 already know, you already like, you can quite literally, this is what I tell people if they’re
0:06:04 kind of having a block on who to reach out to is take a pen and piece of paper or take your notes app
0:06:09 on your phone, go walk around your house and look at all the products that you have that you’ve purchased
0:06:17 that you use on a consistent basis. I can almost guarantee most of those brands are posting
0:06:22 consistently on, on social media. And probably a lot of them are also working already with UGC
0:06:27 creators. Yeah. And it’s not just, you know, I’m thinking of like the closet and shoes and clothes,
0:06:34 but also food and snacks and toys and games, like all sorts of stuff. So much. And even,
0:06:38 and even software, like you said, the first deal was a, was an app company. Yeah. I’ve worked with
0:06:45 so many apps, software companies that I’ve used for years and just, you know, they just hired me to do UGC.
0:06:51 So whenever people ask me like what kind of brands are using UGC creators, it’s truly a mix. It’s,
0:06:56 it’s across the board. I’ve worked with fashion, like clothing companies, software tech companies,
0:07:02 like you as a, you doing podcasts, like I’m looking at your, your headphones, right? Your mic, like you,
0:07:08 what, whatever you’re using as a podcaster, so many brands are, are using, you know, user generated
0:07:13 content in their marketing strategies. Okay. That’s what they’re getting out of the deal is we’re going to hire
0:07:20 Megan or a hundred people like Megan to fill out our own content feed. Like that’s, it’s,
0:07:24 there’s always another day coming around. There’s always going to be need, needing more stuff to post.
0:07:29 And so this is a way to kind of crowdsource that in an authentic looking way or, or, you know,
0:07:34 from actual users of the thing. And so that’s their benefit benefit to you is obviously you’re getting
0:07:39 paid to do it. And so it sounds like from your Instagram DMS, it’s like, could you connect me with
0:07:47 the, you said the person handling content partnerships or is like some, is that an official job title that
0:07:51 I want to like be on the lookout for? Yeah, it’s, it’s going to be different for every brand,
0:07:56 right? So what I like to tell people is, you know, typically when you’re reaching out to medium,
0:08:02 you know, from medium to large sized brands, the person that’s looking at the DMS of the brand,
0:08:08 like on the brand’s Instagram account is not typically a decision maker, right? It’s going to be
0:08:13 a customer service person that just wants to answer questions quickly. So that’s why I say,
0:08:19 always ask to be connected with the brand partnerships, or it could be an influencer
0:08:24 manager, manager, it could be a partnerships director, it could be a creative director. So you
0:08:31 could ask it in a specific way more like, can I be connected with the person in charge of handling
0:08:36 partnerships? So you don’t have to say a specific title, but just whoever’s in charge of, you know,
0:08:41 working with content creators. Okay. And same thing over email, like is this through the generic
0:08:46 contact form on the, on the page? It seems like half the time that’s just going into a black box
0:08:51 where, you know, maybe it’s customer service that checks that, or maybe it just is into a black hole,
0:08:55 but it’s the same kind of language. Like, could you put me in touch? Could you connect me with the
0:09:00 influencer marketing department or something? Typically it’s going to be the same. You’re
0:09:06 going to like with Instagram DM, you know, it’s going to be a little quicker, shorter text. It’s not
0:09:10 going to be like, Hey, I’m Megan. This is who I am. This is what I love about your products.
0:09:16 Like when you email somebody, it could be the generic email. If you literally cannot find
0:09:25 the email of whoever is in charge or a marketing person’s, you know, email contact info. So it could
0:09:32 be, and I, I do find that when the generic email is the only one that you can find and you do send
0:09:38 cold outreach emails to those, they typically do get forwarded to the right person, but you know,
0:09:44 of course it could go unread or could get lost in the mix. And that’s where follow-up can come
0:09:49 through too. Yeah. And I suppose you could look on LinkedIn for somebody who has like a, you know,
0:09:53 marketing director, partner marketing, you know, something like that in their job role and try and
0:10:00 reverse engineer, you know, their email, like Jay Smith at brand name.com, you know, try and figure out
0:10:04 what are the common email structures to try and get, or it’s just a LinkedIn message too.
0:10:10 Yes, totally. Yeah. It’s, that’s totally an option. And also, I mean, now because I’m making money with
0:10:18 UGC, I’m, I’ve reinvested. So I use a software called hunter.io if you’ve heard of it. Yeah. So that makes it
0:10:23 way easier. You’ll have less of a headache. You’ll have, you know, a way higher chance of actually
0:10:29 finding the person that is in charge or in the marketing department at least. So that’s like 60
0:10:35 something bucks a month. I think it can be worth it. I mean, if you get one brand deal from one email a
0:10:39 month, it’s going to pay for it. So hunter.io is a great software.
0:10:45 What is a typical response once you reach that decision maker? They’re like an immediate yes. And
0:10:51 the rate is $500. Like, do they have a template response or something that they’re used to paying
0:10:54 people? Like how, what, what typically happens next? It’s kind of a mixed bag, but depends on
0:11:01 the brand. A lot of brands have an entire process for how they work with UGC creators. And you can
0:11:06 even go, you know, if you’re stalking brands, trying to figure out who to reach out to, you know, you can
0:11:11 go to the Instagram account of a brand. And if you see a bunch of random faces in all their videos,
0:11:16 they’re likely UGC creators. And that’s kind of a green light. That’s a good sign. Sure. Yeah. It’s a
0:11:19 good sign because they’re already doing, you don’t have to convince them to hire you as a UGC
0:11:25 creator, right? So if they’re already doing it, that’s a green light. When you get a response from
0:11:30 a brand, it’s going to be either, Hey, thanks so much for reaching out. We had to look at your
0:11:35 portfolio. You look like you’d be a great fit to make content for us. This is what we currently
0:11:41 need. Other times they could be, you know, it can just be wrong timing, right? So for example,
0:11:47 I reached out to a supplement company that I have used for years and you don’t have to be a customer
0:11:53 of the companies you’re reaching out to obviously, but it’s a good start. So I really wanted to make
0:11:58 UGC for this supplement company because I’m obsessed with them and I just am a loyal customer. I’ve spent
0:12:02 thousands of dollars on their products. And so I reached out to them back in August, sent them an
0:12:08 email and they said, no, like we’re, we have an agency that handles this. Like we’re not, we’re not
0:12:12 interested in working with you right now. And I was a little annoyed because I really wanted to
0:12:19 make content for them. So I sent them a video pitch. So this is another thing that you can do
0:12:25 is you, I use Loom, L-O-O-M, Loom software. It’s a screen recording software. I basically screen record
0:12:32 my screen, my computer screen and have my little face up there as well record and just kind of
0:12:36 introduce myself. So for them, I kind of took it a step further because I really did want to work with
0:12:41 them. I sent them a Loom video. It’s probably like six minutes long. I even created a Google doc with
0:12:47 all like the three concepts that I had for them for a UG, for UGC videos, told them why they should
0:12:53 hire me to create UGC and sent it to them was super confident. And again, they’re like, sorry, like,
0:12:58 no, we just, we’re not going to work with you right now. So I was like, okay, okay, that’s fine. So then
0:13:03 come a month ago, they emailed me and they were like, Hey Megan, we’re ready to work with you. Just send us
0:13:07 your rates and we’ll, you know, we’ll, we’ll, we’ll get you set up. And I love the video concepts that
0:13:11 you shared with us six months ago. Let’s do those. I told them what I would charge and
0:13:13 they hired me and paid me and it was great.
0:13:19 There again, well, that’s a great lead in on one, like staying in touch, going above and beyond,
0:13:24 doing the follow-up and just the timing might not be right. Like, yes, we like you. We like your work,
0:13:28 but, and then, you know, I see this all the time with, you know, guest pitches where it’s like,
0:13:32 well, we just, we just did an episode about that. But if you come back in six months, like, okay,
0:13:37 now it’s, now it’s perfect. But it makes sense on the brand side too. So they ask, well,
0:13:41 how much are you going to charge? What’s your rates? And now the deer in the headlights kind of go,
0:13:44 well, what should I charge? And so what, how do you respond back to that?
0:13:49 Yeah, for sure. So at this point, well, I’ll just kind of, I think most people that are listening,
0:13:56 maybe don’t have any experience with this. So I always recommend, uh, if you’re brand new to UGC
0:14:03 and you’re just starting out, the typical beginner rates are going to be like 150 to $200 per UGC video.
0:14:09 Most brands want multiple UGC videos when they’re hiring you. So 150 to 200, that’s what I charged at the
0:14:14 beginning. Now, because obviously like anything else, you get better, you get clients, you get,
0:14:21 you know, you get results for brands. Now I charge, you know, I can charge well over a thousand dollars
0:14:27 per UGC video. And you can also charge usage rights if a brand like that supplement brand.
0:14:29 And these are super short.
0:14:29 Yeah.
0:14:33 I want to highlight there’s some editing required and there’s some creative thought. We’ll get into that.
0:14:33 Yeah.
0:14:38 But like we’re talking about a 45 second video, a thousand bucks, you know, do the hourly rate
0:14:39 on that.
0:14:44 Exactly. Yeah. So for this brand, you know, they, I, yeah, I charged them a little over a thousand
0:14:50 dollars per video and they hired me for three videos. So those three videos, again, I’ve been
0:14:55 doing this two and a half years. It’s, you know, it’s easier to me than just starting out. Right.
0:15:01 Yeah. But those videos took me less than two hours. One of them I did with my mom. So I had her come
0:15:07 over to my house. We recorded at my house. I edited it right after she left. It was very quick,
0:15:11 very simple. But yeah, that’s, that’s kind of the great thing about UGC. Like you’re going to get
0:15:15 better and better. You’re going to be able to charge more. So your hourly rate technically is just
0:15:19 truly going to increase kind of to a crazy amount.
0:15:24 Yeah. Each video that you do, it adds to the portfolio, makes it easy to sell the next job.
0:15:30 Plus you get better at the creative process and doing the work and you improve the processes and
0:15:36 all this stuff. So I definitely see there’s some economies of scale and one yes is likely two,
0:15:40 three, four, five yeses because they want multiple videos. And it’s like, it’s not really worth,
0:15:46 you know, sending you 150 bucks for the one, but if you can do five of them, then okay, now we got,
0:15:51 now we’re talking more with Megan in just a moment, including the platforms and agencies that
0:15:56 could potentially eliminate this cold outreach from your marketing plans and why you might not need
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0:18:35 What happens when somebody says, well, we, we do our influencer partnerships or UDC partnerships
0:18:40 through an agency. And now it’s like, well, now there’s another middleman to deal with here.
0:18:46 You could do, I mean, two things, obviously you could just move on to the next brand, or if they give
0:18:52 you the name of the agency, which you could ask for it, you could probably do some research Googling it.
0:18:58 But if you find the agency that that’s another way to connect with brands is so many brands do hire
0:19:05 agencies to outsource their UGC creator. So if you were to go on Google and type in UGC agency, there are
0:19:11 so many agencies because most brands are working with UGC creators. So you could do that. You could
0:19:18 go find the brand or find the agency and reach out via email and just tell them who you are and include
0:19:22 your portfolio, almost like you are pitching directly to the brand and then just ask to be
0:19:28 added to their creator roster. If they do have a client coming up and you kind of fit who they’re
0:19:29 looking for as a UGC creator.
0:19:36 Yeah, that seems like a place to potentially get matched with a lot of brands for a little effort
0:19:41 without, you know, having to send out hundreds and hundreds of cold DMs where it’s just, can I get on
0:19:48 your preferred vendor list, your roster of creators? And whenever a gig comes up, maybe they send it your
0:19:51 way or say, this is something, ask if you’d be interested in it.
0:19:58 Yeah. And it’s also important to note that now because UGC is such a popular way for brands to
0:20:03 keep up with their marketing and their marketing efforts, there’s been so many, like not only
0:20:12 agencies, but apps, platforms to just hop on and you could download an app called Billow or there’s
0:20:19 B-roll, Incense app. There’s so many apps that you can download on your phone and create profiles.
0:20:25 And then you’ll be able to connect with brands on those apps. Each app is a little bit different,
0:20:32 how it works, the logistics of it, but there’s also platforms like BrandsMeetCreators, Vidzy,
0:20:41 Koli, Breakfast.io, which is B-R-K-F-S-T.io. There’s just an insane amount that it could be overwhelming to
0:20:47 new people. But what I always recommend is, you know, dip your toes into a couple of them. I personally
0:20:53 don’t use a ton of those platforms or apps because I’ve been doing it for so long that I have contacts
0:20:57 already. I have repeat customers. I have retainer clients, right? So, but when you’re just starting
0:21:03 out, you know, join a couple apps, join, join a couple platforms, create profiles and connect with
0:21:05 brands that way. It’s a really good way to get started.
0:21:11 That makes sense to go where they’re already used to shopping for this type of service.
0:21:11 Yeah.
0:21:16 stick your flag out and say, I’m open for business. Come, come hire me. Oh, this is super
0:21:21 interesting stuff. Does it make sense to transition a little bit to the creative process? Cause my,
0:21:25 you know, we’ve joked about this on the, on the show in the past, like my bread and butter is
0:21:30 45 minute podcast episode. Like short form is, is a foreign language to me. And there’s,
0:21:36 there’s a skill that goes into making something snappy, but still tells a story. And ultimately,
0:21:41 you know, hopefully convince us people that they want to buy this product that the brand is paying
0:21:47 you to promote. You know, what do you be like is keep a rolling dock of different ideas or what,
0:21:48 what’s working on that side?
0:21:55 Yeah. So the good thing about working with brands as a UGC creator, even if you’re new and you’re
0:22:02 highly intimidated by the entire creative process. And I get so many people reach out to me and say,
0:22:05 I think I’m going to draw a blank. Like I’m going to freeze when the brand, you know,
0:22:10 wants me to make a video. Well, what am I even going to do? But the great news is that it’s not
0:22:17 typically an issue because when a brand is hiring you for UGC, nine times out of 10,
0:22:23 they’re going to have a plan for you. So that could look different depending on the brand.
0:22:28 Most brands are going to send you a creative brief. So they’re going to have, you know,
0:22:33 that they could even send you a script, like a full on script. I had a student of mine get,
0:22:40 um, get a UGC deal, just literally reading an eight minute script that they sent her and she
0:22:45 got paid $600 for that. So it, it really just depends on what the brand is looking for. I’ve
0:22:51 had brands that say, Hey, we love your style. We, we trust you as a UGC creator and your creative
0:22:56 process that we’d love for you to just like roll with it and come up with your own ideas and your
0:23:01 own script and just have total creative freedom. On the other side though, there’s so many more
0:23:07 brands that send you some type of outline, whether it’s like a bullet point list, a full on script,
0:23:13 Hey, here, here are the shots that we want you to get. For example, like my mom got a UGC, you know,
0:23:21 she’s in communication with a brand and they sent her a whole notion doc that has, Hey, here’s the script
0:23:26 that you need to read. And then the visual input, like, you know, brush your hair with the,
0:23:30 with the hairbrush that we’re sending you while you’re saying this script. So it can be as detailed
0:23:35 as that. It can be like, Hey, here’s the videos that have performed super well for us in the past.
0:23:41 When we’ve hired other UGC creators, maybe you can replicate those in your own way and then send those
0:23:48 to us. Okay. It’s similar to the world of podcasts, advertising, where some brands are like, Hey,
0:23:53 you’re a user, say it in your own words. We trust you. And others are like, this needs to be read
0:23:59 verbatim. Uh, this is, you know, the talking points like, and, and a spectrum and everything in between
0:24:03 that makes sense. And that’s actually less, makes it less intimidating because it’s like, Oh, if,
0:24:07 if you give me the outline or give me some guardrails, some structure around it as, you know,
0:24:12 to the extent of brushing your hair, not that that would be applicable to me, but, um, that’s,
0:24:15 that’s helpful in trying to come up with something that would be compelling.
0:24:20 Yeah. Yeah. And I think that it also, I mean, obviously you’ve got to learn, it’s not like
0:24:24 you’re going to read a script every time and it’s going to be a breeze every single time, you know?
0:24:29 So like I always tell people, you know, script writing is a skill that you should have editing
0:24:33 as well, right? You should have it. You shouldn’t always rely on the brand is going to have an in-house
0:24:39 video editor for you to do, right? So with script writing, it’s a skill like anything else. You’ll
0:24:45 get better and better at it, but it’s also helpful to know that we now have chat, GPT or other AI
0:24:49 writing tools that can kind of get those creative juices flowing. So that’s what I tell people, you
0:24:55 know, if you, if you are totally drawing a blank on what to do, feed in some information using AI and
0:25:00 kind of utilize that tool that we have now to kind of get, get those ideas flowing. Cause those,
0:25:03 that can be a really, really great resource, especially for people who are just starting
0:25:06 out and who are super intimidated by the whole process.
0:25:11 Yeah. And if you’re the person who’s super intimidated, maybe not the side hustle for you,
0:25:14 but we’ve got lots of other options for you. But if you’re like, I like making videos,
0:25:18 I like watching videos. I like brand, you know, I’m a consumer. I could go to town with this.
0:25:23 So you get the first deal and you make this effort to go, well, I made you, I made you a couple extra.
0:25:27 Would you like to buy those too? And they say, yes. What happens next? Like you’re like,
0:25:31 okay, I got, I got a bite. I’m 10 days into this. I got a, I got a deal. There’s obviously
0:25:38 something to this and talk about this scaling up and doing it as a, on the side from the day job.
0:25:45 Yeah. So I was elated when I got that deal and I was on cloud nine, which I think most UGC creators
0:25:49 can feel that way, whether it’s a hundred bucks, whether it’s 800 bucks, it’s just a really good
0:25:54 feeling. Cause that kind of instilled this confidence in me that, okay, I reached out to this brand,
0:25:59 even though I sent a ton of emails, uh, one said yes to me, they paid me, they liked what I did.
0:26:05 It kind of was like, okay, I can do this again and again and again. So that’s what I did. I just
0:26:12 continued doing that. I continued studying other content. Every time I saw an ad for a product that
0:26:18 was probably UGC creator, I was studying those ads, seeing what I liked, what, what drew me in,
0:26:24 what made me possibly even buy a product. And that helped a lot in knowing what kind of content brands
0:26:30 wanted and needed for their own purposes. So it was just a continual process reaching out to brands.
0:26:35 I started landing, you know, more UGC deals and other different industries, you know, working with
0:26:40 agencies. I got better at communicating with companies. I would raise my rates every now and
0:26:45 then when I was feeling a little confident. So it kind of just snowballed and it was great. You know,
0:26:51 I was obviously working a full-time job and I got a new job a few months into my UGC journey
0:26:57 and it was a more demanding job. And so I had to find pockets of time to do UGC.
0:27:04 Does that ever come up where a coworker or a boss was like, Hey, I saw you on my feed for some
0:27:06 random company. Like, does that ever happen?
0:27:12 I’m sure it has happened to other people. I haven’t had that happen where, while I was working a full-time
0:27:17 job, I had anybody like say, what, what the heck are you doing besides random people? Like I,
0:27:23 I, the first video I did for that app company, I remember I got like two different people that I
0:27:28 went to college with like a decade ago that I haven’t spoken to in years, DM me on Instagram and be like,
0:27:33 Hey, just saw your ad for that app. I don’t, I don’t really know what you’re doing. Are you an
0:27:37 influencer now? And as I had explained, it was kind of, it’s kind of funny. And that’s kind of what
0:27:40 happens when people, when you start doing UGC and start landing deals is you’re going to have like
0:27:46 random people reach out and be like, what the heck are you doing? So, um, yeah, I mean, it was,
0:27:52 you know, I, I didn’t, and that, that is a thing that people do because some people don’t want their
0:27:57 coworkers to know what they’re doing, right? They kind of want to be anonymous. I mean, it kind of
0:28:03 depends on the person, but you can also do faceless UGC. I have done a lot of UGC where I literally
0:28:11 don’t show my face. So home products like brands or nail care companies where you literally only
0:28:15 just show your hands. That is an option for people, which I think is important to know because a lot
0:28:19 of people do want to remain anonymous online, especially if they’re working a job where they
0:28:25 don’t feel comfortable. Um, so yeah, faceless UGC is for sure an option too. Okay. We had, I mean,
0:28:30 that’s similar, like all my, or most of my Amazon influencer videos are just me pointing the camera
0:28:35 at the thing and talking about it. And maybe you see my hands. It’s like, it’s not necessarily face
0:28:41 on camera, but I mean, it could be, but it didn’t have to be. And then we had another, this guy has
0:28:46 been in the side hustle nation community forever. His side hustle was maybe similar or like, or at
0:28:51 least, at least related, maybe a cousin of this, where he was like, uh, on Fiverr, I will be your
0:28:55 video spokesperson. He kind of had like a, you know, corporate looking, I’ll put on the suit and tie and
0:29:01 talk about your thing. And that was kind of the, the interesting part is like, well, it’s got to be
0:29:05 a brand that I’m comfortable representing because it’s going to be my name and my face, you know,
0:29:11 pitching this thing. And it’s, it’s similar here. It’s like, uh, you’re, you’re kind of in control.
0:29:15 You’re doing the manual outreach in this case to say, uh, this is a brand I already like,
0:29:21 or could see myself partnering with versus some random inbound where it’s like, uh, do I really want
0:29:25 to be showing this thing? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And that’s the great thing about UGC is like,
0:29:31 obviously you are a freelancer, you’re a contractor. So it’s, it is up to you who you work with and the
0:29:36 longer you do it, the more pickier you can be. Obviously the thing about Fiverr is yes, that’s
0:29:43 exactly UGC. So many UGC creators are on Fiverr landing UGC deals. And the great thing about that,
0:29:50 which you probably now, after talking to that person is it, they come to you, right? So you’re not
0:29:55 doing all this outreach and spending all this like time and energy, you know, sending emails,
0:30:01 sending DMS. It’s great, even though it’s not like a really quick thing on Fiverr. It usually takes a
0:30:06 little while. Um, but that is, that is one of the benefits of going on freelance platforms like Fiverr
0:30:11 as a UGC creator, because then brands are actively looking, they can find your gig and hire you.
0:30:16 And it’s, it’s super interesting because it’s not going on your feeds. It’s like, I, you know,
0:30:21 my friends might see it if it happens upon the algorithm sprinkles it down into them,
0:30:25 but it’s like, it’s not, you know, something necessarily posting. I don’t need to have a ton
0:30:29 of followers to even get these gigs. Cause it’s like, it’s for this, you know, freelance content
0:30:35 creation. It’s going on somebody else’s feed, going on somebody else’s site. So do you have a sense of
0:30:42 the take rate for this cold outreach? It’s like, okay, I know I’m going to have to send 10 pitches
0:30:45 before I get a yes. I know I’m gonna have to send 50 pitches before I get it. What kind of numbers
0:30:52 game should people expect? Oh gosh. I think I probably sent like 30 ish emails before one said
0:30:57 yes to me, possibly a little bit more between 30 to 50. And you know, I’ve, I’ve had like people that
0:31:02 I’ve taught that, you know, they send out their first Instagram DM and it just had, oh my gosh,
0:31:07 it’s like amazing timing and it works. And they are landing their first UGC deal like day two into
0:31:12 their journey, which happens more often than you think. But, um, yeah, you know, it’s, it’s going
0:31:17 to be, it’s going to be a game. That’s why I always tell people, you know, do cold outreach for sure.
0:31:23 I’m a big proponent of that, but also don’t put all your eggs in one basket, especially people who
0:31:28 are, who are busy, right? Like there’s a lot of, you know, full-time working professionals that are
0:31:35 doing UGC on the side. They don’t have two extra hours to just send emails or, you know,
0:31:40 their stay at home moms who are just like chasing kids around that just can’t do that. So going on
0:31:45 these platforms like brands meet creators, for example, is just a really good start just because
0:31:51 you’re already able to see who’s looking for UGC creators actively and connect with them with like
0:31:55 almost a click of a button. That’s helpful to hear it. The name of the game in any sales
0:31:59 relationship. It’s going to take a lot of no’s before you get to a yes, or a lot of
0:32:03 not even getting any responses. In my case, I had to knock on a lot of doors before I ever sold a paint
0:32:08 job. Exactly. There’s some filtering that has to happen. More with Megan in just a moment, including
0:32:13 when she felt comfortable calling it quits at the day job to take her UGC side hustle full-time,
0:32:19 negotiation, best practices, and the surprising age group that’s most in demand for brands.
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0:34:35 Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. At what point do you feel comfortable saying,
0:34:39 I could do this full-time? Like, was there a specific revenue target you were trying to hit? Like,
0:34:43 what’s going through your head to be like, and maybe there’s some recurring contracts as part of this,
0:34:48 but it’s kind of like, every month I got to book another five to ten deals so I could pay the bills.
0:34:54 Yeah, for sure. It was a slower process, I would say. And I think that when I started landing more
0:34:59 UGC deals, it was kind of like, oh my gosh, could I actually do this full-time? Like, is this
0:35:07 tangible? And you know what? The real turning point in my UGC business was getting monthly retainer
0:35:11 clients. I mean, that changed everything for me. So I was obviously, you know, working full-time.
0:35:18 Our son was like, probably one and a half, two at this point. And I was super afraid of taking on
0:35:23 monthly retainer clients, even though I had a couple opportunities come my way. I just thought
0:35:28 it was going to be way too much work on top of a full-time job. And then I had a company offer me
0:35:36 like $3,000 to do some Instagram reels for them every month. And I thought, $3,000 extra every month
0:35:42 sounds pretty good. So I’m just going to make it work. So I said yes to them. And they were like
0:35:47 almost a year-long contract. And so every month I was making $3,000 and it got easier and easier.
0:35:53 That’s the great thing about monthly retainer clients. You’re not having to relearn about a new brand every
0:36:00 single month. And so it did get easier. I was able to batch content in between working or mornings or
0:36:05 whenever. And I already worked from home, which was obviously a bonus because I could do some things
0:36:13 in between work. And so that really kind of made this switch. Like, okay, so I’m like making three
0:36:20 grand from this, a couple extra grand from random UGC deals that would come in. And then I got my next
0:36:27 like bigger monthly retainer client that was paying me $4,000 a month. And with that client, I was also
0:36:34 offering some social media management, which a lot of UGC creators do. And so that’s an option for people
0:36:38 if they want to. You don’t have to do that. But I was like, okay, that’s kind of what they’re looking
0:36:44 for. I’m willing to do it. And so I took on another pretty big contract. And so I had this consistent
0:36:54 money coming in. And eventually about a year into it, a year into my whole UGC journey, and I had these
0:37:00 two clients, plus I was doing other UGC deals, plus I was working full-time. I kind of, I was like,
0:37:03 whoa, this is a lot. I’m basically working two full-time jobs.
0:37:05 Yeah, basically two full-time jobs.
0:37:10 Yeah, exactly. So I kind of had to let one thing go. And I knew I was going to keep these clients.
0:37:16 And then that second client was now paying me $5,500 a month because I was doing a little more
0:37:22 stuff for them. So it was good chunks of money coming in that I could not 100% rely on, but basically
0:37:28 rely on every month. So I was able to quit my job, you know, when I was making consistent,
0:37:37 reliable, $10,000 to $13,000 months with UGC deals. And it would just, it would almost be impossible to
0:37:43 continue working full-time and doing that much UGC. So something had to be, something had to be gone.
0:37:44 And that was my full-time job.
0:37:51 But that’s incredible to build it to the point, you know, 120 plus grand a year, 10 grand a month plus
0:37:56 on the side and then say, well, it’s not sustainable to keep doing it on the side. So
0:38:01 something’s got to give. So the first one, three grand a month, make us some Instagram reels. Like,
0:38:05 can you give a sense of like the volume of work that was?
0:38:12 So the great thing about that contract is I had total creative freedom, which helps with the whole
0:38:17 process. Like it would probably be a whole different beast if I had to make the videos,
0:38:22 send the videos to the company, they approve them and go back and forth. So that was a really good
0:38:27 thing where I had creative freedom. They sent me all the products. It was like a luxury home products,
0:38:33 like, you know, $300 candles, $200 blankets, that kind of stuff. So I didn’t have to show my face in
0:38:39 any of it, which was nice. So it was all just product focused. And the thing about Instagram reels is
0:38:44 they’re not as involved as like, say, the supplement company that hired me, you know,
0:38:49 I have to create a script, I have to show several different shots of the product. It’s not as
0:38:56 involved. It’s a little more quick. It’s a little more like, hey, I could make my bed and show the
0:39:01 blanket on my bed. And that’s an Instagram reel. And I’m done for the day for that one. So it was like
0:39:08 between 15 to 20 videos per month, but I could batch most of them, like on the weekends, or maybe
0:39:12 over the span of a couple weekends. Do you run out of like, idea, like different ways to show a blanket?
0:39:13 It’s like,
0:39:19 I thought I would. And what helps with that is obviously just stalking what other companies are
0:39:24 doing, right? Getting inspired, like what’s working for people? Like what do people actually respond to
0:39:30 on Instagram when it comes to home products? There’s so I mean, that that’s the great thing about being in
0:39:35 the content creation field is not obviously stealing people’s ideas, but having so much content that
0:39:40 you’re literally just exposed to every day that can really get those creative juices flowing. And yeah,
0:39:45 and some, some reels flopped, like they didn’t, like you got a couple hundred views, some like
0:39:49 went viral and sold a bunch of their products organically, which made the brand really happy.
0:39:54 But you know, that’s, that’s just part of the game. They need to be posting Instagram reels. And if I’m
0:39:57 the one that can fulfill that need, they’re going to pay me money for it.
0:40:02 Is that kind of where the ROI is for the brands where it’s like, you know, the video that gets a couple
0:40:07 hundred views, is it going to do anything? Maybe it sells a couple, who knows? But it’s, it’s almost like
0:40:12 we’re going to, we’re going to sprinkle our budget around in the hopes that one or two of these take off,
0:40:16 pay for all of the losses, and then hopefully still make us a profit from our social feed.
0:40:24 I think that it’s, I don’t think it’s a question. So the way I look at it, and what it likely is, is that
0:40:32 brands really have no choice. So like when I create, you know, I had another client paying me $1,500 a month
0:40:38 for five Instagram reels that were like 10 seconds long. I don’t think really those videos that I made
0:40:44 for them were bringing in a bunch of sales, right? But they have no other option. If they’re, if they’re
0:40:48 a clothing brand, which they were, and they’re competing into all these other clothing brands,
0:40:55 they’re, they have no option than to be consistent on social media and build a following, build an
0:41:00 engaged community of people that’s interested in following them, right? So for them, I think that
0:41:05 it’s the overall picture with every brand is like, okay, we have to post organically on social media,
0:41:12 but we’re also going to hire people that can create content that’s going to sell directly
0:41:19 our, our products via ads. So I think it’s a mix. I think it’s totally a mix of like brands need both
0:41:24 organic and they need paid media. That’s interesting. It’s like, it’s a, it’s a cost
0:41:29 to play in the game at this point. And to be on the receiving end of that, that’s good. Good for the
0:41:34 creators. You’ve mentioned a lot of different tools and apps, which I think is awesome. We’ll link those
0:41:39 up. Loom, Canva, Incense, Billow, like some of these are totally new to me. We’ll, we’ll dig those up,
0:41:44 link those up in the show notes. Anything else on the tools tech side that you’re using to help run
0:41:50 your business? So I, I’ll kind of go through the process of exactly what I use and what I think
0:41:56 bare minimum should be for every UGC creator. So I use my iPhone to film. That’s another great thing
0:42:02 about UGC. You don’t need a fancy DSLR camera. You’re not a massive production studio, right? That’s
0:42:09 kind of the point. So you can use your phone to film if it’s a decent camera. And then I use CapCut
0:42:15 to edit. And that’s what most people use. I think there’s a couple of different editing apps out there,
0:42:21 but CapCut seems to be the most straightforward. And I pay for CapCut Pro, but you do not have to.
0:42:28 And then yeah, Canva for your portfolio, you know, if you want to create a new Gmail account to stay
0:42:33 very organized, which is very easy to get in very disorganized when it comes to UGC, because you’re
0:42:38 going to be reaching out to so many brands, you know, create a new Gmail account. It doesn’t have to be a
0:42:44 business account where it’s at URL.com. It can, it can just be a Gmail account if that’s all you can do
0:42:50 right now. And then in terms of like payment, that’s another question that gets brought up a lot. Like,
0:42:57 how am I going to get paid? You will, it’s across the board. So I’ve had brands pay me via PayPal. So
0:43:03 setting up a PayPal account, if you don’t have one already would be a good option or good, probably just
0:43:11 a good idea. And then I’ve also had brands pay through Stripe or bill.com is a kind of a popular one for brands to
0:43:19 use third party payment software. Also direct deposit. At one point I was on a company’s payroll. So it kind of just
0:43:26 depends on the brand, but it’s, it’s typically not something that’s the payment part tends to be a big question,
0:43:31 but I don’t think it’s something that you actually have to figure out before you start because the brand’s going to tell you
0:43:36 exactly what their preferred payment method is. But yeah, that those are kind of the main things. And
0:43:43 then in terms of like filming what you need, like gadgets, tools, and everything really basic, in my
0:43:51 opinion, is going to be a tripod. I got a $25 tripod off of Amazon. I got a selfie light, which is like
0:43:58 $12, $15. You’re going to want to use as much natural light as possible for every video you do. But I
0:44:07 started my UGC journey in a very, very dark dated apartment. And it was just not super pretty. The lighting was
0:44:15 horrible. So I really utilized artificial light, which selfie light, whatever ring light, whatever you want. And I
0:44:21 actually don’t even use a microphone for my UGC videos because my iPhone does a pretty good job. So depending on if your
0:44:26 audio is terrible or not, get a microphone off of Amazon or just see how it goes.
0:44:30 Yeah, I can picture like, you know, some people holding up like a little baby lab mic or something
0:44:31 like that. Yeah.
0:44:35 So that’s helpful. Like low tech, don’t stress about the payment.
0:44:35 Exactly.
0:44:39 That’s a good problem to have. You’ll figure that out if somebody is like, how do I give you money? Like,
0:44:44 I could solve that. Anything you would do differently if you had to start over to either accelerate the
0:44:48 journey or land bigger deals faster or anything that comes to mind there?
0:44:55 Yeah, I think I would not be so afraid of taking on monthly retainer clients. And I wish somebody had
0:45:01 kind of told me that or I kind of had figured that out sooner just because it really it just makes such a
0:45:08 big difference. So yeah, number one, like focus on building relationships with brands and being a good
0:45:15 person to work with, like don’t be difficult to work with, you know, be responsive, be polite, like just
0:45:20 be a good person to work with and brands will want to continue working with you. And then that will lead
0:45:26 probably to monthly retainer clients, which can significantly increase your income as a UGC creator.
0:45:32 So for sure the monthly retainer clients and I think just not being afraid to reach out to bigger
0:45:40 brands as well. Like brands of all sizes need content and it’s not always going to be, you know,
0:45:45 it’s always going to be a yes, but that’s something that I realized in the beginning just from different
0:45:50 side hustles I’ve done in the past. Like it’s, it’s going to be a little slow, but eventually you’ll get
0:45:52 yeses and increase your confidence.
0:45:59 Is there pricing tiers? Like if I’m racing out to Aloe, like on your hat or Nike and I come back with
0:46:03 $200 and they’re like, uh, that’s, that’s a red flag. That’s too cheap. We’re used to paying
0:46:09 billions of dollars to LeBron James or somebody that’s, you know, what is this? Is there anything
0:46:14 like that? When you said, when you mentioned going after bigger brands, I don’t think that brands are
0:46:20 super turned off by that. It’s best if the brand can kind of give you a budget or even like a range.
0:46:26 So I’ve had brands reach out to me and UGC creators will tell you different things like, don’t do this,
0:46:34 do this. Like it’s a, it’s a mix. But my opinion is if, if you can get the brand to tell you what
0:46:37 their budget is before you ever state any number.
0:46:40 Yeah. Don’t, don’t be the first to throw out a number.
0:46:45 Yeah. Yeah. You, you’re putting the ball in their court. So it’s kind of best. So I’ve had brands
0:46:51 reach out to me and I’m like, so what, what is your budget for three videos? What can you give me a range
0:46:55 of what your budget is? And sometimes, you know, it’ll be like a hundred dollars per video. And I’m like,
0:46:59 okay, great. So I know I’m not going to continue this conversation, right? Come back to me if you
0:47:04 do have an increased budget in the future. But then other times it’s more than what I would have just
0:47:10 thrown out. Right. So you can make more money that way. And this is a little tip too, that this is
0:47:16 related, but on your portfolio, like on my portfolio, anytime I tell people like, Hey, create a portfolio.
0:47:24 I don’t ever tell them to put their rates in their portfolio just because you are going to miss out on that.
0:47:31 Like if a brand is searching for a UGC creator and they’ve got a thousand dollars for two UGC videos budget
0:47:37 in your portfolio states that you only charge 250 for one, for one video, they’re going to save money.
0:47:42 You’re going to lose money. So you don’t have to put your rates on your portfolio. You can create a
0:47:46 rate card if that makes you feel better. And you’re able to send that because every now and then brands
0:47:51 do ask for rate cards. You know, you can do that, but at the end of the day, you know, it’s really just
0:47:56 about communicating with the brand. Like, is it going to work? Is it going to make sense for you? Are you
0:48:02 going to feel good about spending an hour or two creating a video for a hundred dollars? Maybe you
0:48:08 do, maybe, maybe you, you won’t feel good about that, but knowing what you feel good about and like
0:48:15 what’s worth your personal time right now, based on your financial situation and your goals, it’s,
0:48:19 it’s so important to know that otherwise, you know, I’ve seen UGC creator after UGC creator,
0:48:27 start UGC and only be okay and feel worthy of getting these 50 or a hundred dollar UGC deals
0:48:33 where they just start spending so much time, barely making any money and they end up quitting because
0:48:39 it gets frustrating. But knowing what your worth is and like focusing your energy and efforts on brands
0:48:43 that are willing to pay you, at least your bare minimum rate is, is going to be a game changer.
0:48:49 Yeah. Okay. I was just, I was just helpful because it’s like, you know, yeah, you can go out and buy,
0:48:54 you know, web design. Like we talked about Fiverr for next to nothing, or you could, you know,
0:48:59 hire some professional design agency, millions of dollars, if you’re Nike or somebody with the budget
0:49:05 for that, or it’s like, there’s, in some case prices could be a signal of the potential quality
0:49:08 or reach it’s going to have, who knows? But that was just something that, that popped into my head.
0:49:14 I was going to ask any big surprises from your own journey or from your students or what’s,
0:49:17 you know, what’s going out there in the UGC universe these days?
0:49:23 Yeah. I mean, the biggest thing that comes to my mind is I have, I’ve actually helped and taught,
0:49:31 most of my students happen to be Gen Xers and baby boomers. So the way that got started was about a
0:49:37 little over a year ago. I was on a brand call where I sent a video pitch to a brand that I really wanted
0:49:43 to work with. They loved it. And they had me hop on a zoom call with like four of their marketing team.
0:49:49 So I was on a call with them trying to convince them to hire me as a UGC creator. It was going
0:49:55 pretty well. And I had mentioned that my mom who is 63, I mentioned that she is actually like,
0:49:59 she told me about their products. It was a footwear company. And so I was like, yeah,
0:50:05 my mom loves you guys. It’s like loyal customer as am I. And so they were like, their ears kind
0:50:10 of perked up and they’re like, Oh my gosh, that, that would be amazing. If your mom could be in
0:50:14 one of the three UGC videos that you could do for us, they’re like, time out, time out. We don’t
0:50:21 watch you, but we watch your mom. I know. And so I was like, like, of course, my mom’s going to be
0:50:25 down for it. She loves me. She’s going to support me. She’s going to be down to do this. And so they
0:50:32 said, that’s perfect because your mom as a baby boomer, like 60 something year old, I can’t remember
0:50:36 exactly what they said. They said that she is more part of our target demographic. Like we sell
0:50:41 most of our shoes to people more toward her age, even opposed to like me as a, you know,
0:50:47 33 year old at the time. So I was like, okay, like fantastic. That’s great. I heard that. I didn’t
0:50:51 really think much of it besides just kind of coordinating with my mom. We did the video
0:50:58 together and it was great, super fun. And then I realized that if they were looking for older creators,
0:51:05 there’s probably a ton of brands that are looking for older creators. And I never like rarely ever
0:51:12 saw anybody over the age of 50, like nobody in their sixties doing UGC. And so I started posting
0:51:17 about it, telling people like, Hey, if you’re a Gen X or if you’re a boomer, I bet you anything,
0:51:21 there are brands looking for you and you could get paid to create content for them. And it kind of took
0:51:28 off, it blew up. And so there was, I’ve had dozens of brands reach out to me personally and be like,
0:51:35 Hey, thank you so much for posting this because we’ve been looking for people that are Gen X or or baby
0:51:40 boomers to be like in our, in our videos to, to do UGC for us. And we just can’t find that many of
0:51:43 them. Well, there was some data that was like, this was probably a couple of years old, but like that’s
0:51:48 the fastest growing demographic on TikTok is like these older generations. It’s like, we need people
0:51:53 to come and speak to them. A hundred percent. So is that the next, now we can stack side us. I was
0:51:58 like, so are you going to build the Gen X boomer, uh, UGC creator agency? And now I know you can like
0:52:04 play matchmaker and start leveling up here. You know, I could, I’ve been asked that several times.
0:52:10 I’m, I’m not about the agency life. I don’t think, but it’s been, it has truly like been,
0:52:18 it’s just been so amazing. Like it’s been so incredible to see so many people who are in that,
0:52:25 in those two generations, the Gen Xers, the boomers, like find out about UGC because I blab about it all
0:52:30 day on TikTok. And they’re like, what in the world? They literally had no idea. And they start UGC
0:52:36 and they’re like, Oh my gosh, I’m, I’m actually like getting UGC deals. Brands want to work with
0:52:41 me. They’re sending me free products. I’m making money with this. Whereas like a few months ago,
0:52:44 they had no clue. This was even a thing. And it’s just been a really, really cool to see.
0:52:51 That’s super fun. So you’ve got Megan at call your UGC.com. She is at Megan underscore UGC on
0:52:58 Instagram, Tik TOK and Stan dot store. You find some of the portfolio links and other content
0:53:04 creation over there geared towards the people trying to do what she’s doing and build up your own UGC
0:53:08 side hustle. What’s next for you? What’s, what’s on the horizon for this year?
0:53:15 My goal is to do more UGC deals with my mom. We’ve done three so far and she’s doing her own
0:53:21 UGC deals, which has been really fun. Yeah. My, my goal is just to continue creating good content for
0:53:27 companies that they keep coming back for more and just keep spreading the word about UGC to all people
0:53:33 of all backgrounds, all ages to just, you know, get started and just dive into it. Cause you never know
0:53:39 what could happen. Very good. What a, what a fun, creative side hustle. We’ll link up all of the
0:53:44 resources mentioned in the show notes for this episode. This was like when Megan, when you reached
0:53:50 out, it was like, obviously this has been on my radar for a couple of years, but never really had
0:53:55 connected with somebody making a serious run at it. And it’s super interesting, especially from the
0:54:00 standpoint of, I don’t need to be a super influencer. I don’t need to have a built-in following here.
0:54:03 So it checks that box of something fun, creative, if you like,
0:54:08 filming, if you are a consumer of goods anyways, as I bet you are. And you know, here’s you, maybe
0:54:14 you can learn some new video editing tips and tricks along the way. I like the call to build
0:54:20 recurring contracts, build long-term relationships, makes life easier for the brand. They don’t have
0:54:24 to hire somebody new every month. You don’t have to learn a new brand, a new brand language every
0:54:29 month. Plus it adds some stability, kind of like baseline revenue. You’re still free to go out
0:54:34 and pitch other deals, but like, at least you’re stable. And maybe that’s, you get to the goal of
0:54:38 like, I could pay my rent. I could pay my mortgage with like this recurring contract. Like my day job
0:54:42 is called the gravy time. Like, you know, I don’t need it anymore. It’s just like, it’s bonus,
0:54:47 especially with those recurring contracts, but otherwise too, like the workflow, the process
0:54:51 improvements, as you just get a few more reps under your belt, the hourly rate really starts to
0:54:58 improve. So super inspiring episode. If you’re new to the show, welcome. We’ve got hundreds of
0:55:04 actionable episodes in the archives to help you make more money. If, uh, if UGC isn’t your thing,
0:55:07 we’d love to have you binge on any of those. It’s kind of a choose your own adventure type of deal.
0:55:13 If you’re not sure where to start, I want to invite you to build your own personalized side hustle show
0:55:17 playlist. Uh, how it works is you go to hustle.show, you answer a few short, multiple choice
0:55:23 questions takes probably 60 seconds. You can do it on your phone. Questions are about your side hustle
0:55:28 interests, your side hustle goals, and it’ll recommend you eight to 10, uh, side hustle show
0:55:33 episodes to start with as a potential jumping off point. What to listen to next. That’s at hustle.show.
0:55:38 Big thanks to Megan for sharing her insight. Big thanks to our sponsors for helping make this content
0:55:43 free for everyone. You can hit up side hustle nation.com slash deals for all the latest offers from
0:55:47 our advertisers in one place. Thank you for supporting the sponsors that support the show.
0:55:51 That’s it for me. Thank you so much for tuning in. If you’re finding value in the show,
0:55:55 the greatest compliment is to share it with a friend. So fire off that text message. Maybe,
0:56:01 you know, that Gen X or boomer person in your life who can make a little extra money with UGC and, uh,
0:56:05 and help spread the word that way. But until next time, let’s go out there and make something happen.
0:56:09 And I’ll catch you in the next edition of the side hustle show. Hustle on.

0:00:05 Here’s an oldie but a goodie from the archives from the Side Hustle Show Greatest Hits Collection.
0:00:11 How a couple college students built a $6,000 a month business out of a Honda Accord.
0:00:17 What’s up, what’s up, Nick Loper here. Welcome to the Side Hustle Show because yes,
0:00:22 you can cut your own paycheck. I got a note from a listener the other day and he explained
0:00:28 he was a full-time college student working full-time in web design and in his spare time
0:00:34 had started a $6,000 a month side hustle with his younger brother cleaning and detailing cars.
0:00:40 Josh Belk from BelkMobileDetailing.com said the inspiration came from two things.
0:00:42 Thing number one was his brother’s obsession.
0:00:48 He drove his car about 12,000 miles in the first three months of owning it.
0:00:53 It was a Honda Accord and was driving it just all the time. It’s just what he liked to do for fun,
0:00:56 was drive it around. And while he was driving it all the time,
0:01:00 he had to make sure to keep it clean. So I’d always see him out in the driveway,
0:01:04 detailing it, vacuuming out his car.
0:01:08 And thing number two was an email from Ty Lopez.
0:01:13 I was just kind of browsing through this email that he had sent out. And one of the ideas was to
0:01:18 start a mobile car washing business. And I just kind of put the two and two together
0:01:25 and told my brother one day, hey, why don’t we try to monetize this thing and make some money on it.
0:01:30 And make some money is what they did. Stick around in this one to hear how Josh and his brother
0:01:35 landed their first customers, how they price their service, and how they stand out from the
0:01:40 competition. Notes and links for this episode, plus the full text summary of our call are at
0:01:46 sidehustlenation.com slash detailing. And one important thing to note here is to use this as a
0:01:51 lens for any number of local service-based businesses, which broadly speaking is one of
0:01:57 the side hustle models I’m most excited about right now. It’s about mobile detailing, but it’s
0:02:02 not just about mobile detailing, if that makes sense. I’ll be back with my top takeaways from this chat with
0:02:07 Josh after the interview. We start this one off with where those crucial first customers came from.
0:02:09 Ready? Let’s do it.
0:02:17 Friends and family is key. I think that that was the most important starting point for us.
0:02:21 Just being our mom was very helpful with everything that we’ve ever done.
0:02:27 She’s always supportive. So one of the first things that she did was send out a text message and post on
0:02:33 Facebook just to like a few of her friends and other family members around town, just letting them know
0:02:38 like, hey, my sons have started up a mobile detailing business. And 99% of the people that she sent
0:02:46 that too didn’t reply and didn’t call us, but that’s expected. And the 1% that did, we had a few
0:02:52 people. Those are your starting customers. And you really use those people for getting great marketing
0:02:57 material through before and after pictures, helping to establish some good first reviews and reviews are
0:03:03 everything in this business. Because if you can have a great five-star review on Google and Facebook,
0:03:07 then you will stand out amongst your competitors.
0:03:12 Okay. Did you already have all of the equipment necessary?
0:03:17 Like maybe we should back up and ask what equipment is necessary for this stuff?
0:03:21 Yeah, that’s a great question because we didn’t have everything necessary.
0:03:27 But really to start, there’s a few things that are really important to have.
0:03:31 For one, you obviously need some kind of bucket.
0:03:46 We actually started out with using a bucket and a wash mitt, which the bucket is like about $30. I think the one that we bought in the wash mitt was like $5 or $10. You can go buy it. One at your local O’Reilly or one on Amazon pretty easy.
0:03:48 That’s a very fancy bucket. What does it do?
0:04:06 So essentially, it has a grit on the bottom that you can use to scrape your wash mitt. And it’ll kind of help to separate the dirt from the rest of the water in the shampoo. So that way, it just helps to kind of cleanse out all the dirt that you’re using whenever you’re washing the car.
0:04:22 We actually started without a pressure washer. We were just using these little tanks, pumping them up, spraying them on the vehicles. It worked out okay, but it doesn’t allow you to get the underbodies of the car and really the stuff that kind of soaks in a lot.
0:04:37 So we were going through a lot of towels with using just those little pump buckets. So we eventually decided to go ahead and buy a pressure washer. It’s actually called the Worx. And it is a completely mobile pressure washer. It’s about $170 is how much it cost us.
0:04:53 And the great thing about that one was it was battery powered. So we could charge with the batteries before we would go to the site. And the batteries would usually hold for about an hour. We do ask, including now, most of our customers to use their water and electricity, and they are completely fine with it.
0:05:08 We’ve only had a few that have apartments. And sometimes we can usually work around by having them travel to their friends or families. And a lot of the times they’re very flexible and they’re completely okay with that. But besides the pressure washer and the bucket, obviously some great towels help, some brushes.
0:05:20 Chemicals wise, we like to use a degreaser for most of the stuff we do. We have a spray wax and a tire shine. Those three chemicals are really great. I think the extract we bought was about $120.
0:05:28 I would say that’s a pretty critical part of the interior part of your business because we made the most of the money to start out with interior detailing.
0:05:37 And that extractor is something that it adds a huge value to the service whenever you can get out stains and stuff like that.
0:05:49 So that extractor, which could just be bought on Amazon for around $120, was huge, as well as a steamer. A steamer helps with doing the leather seats or the side panels on doors
0:05:57 or center console areas that have coffee or some kind of drinks that have been spilled and sticky stuff in there. That steamer was also very helpful.
0:06:04 And then obviously a vacuum is definitely needed. A shop vac, about $40, I think is how much we paid for ours.
0:06:10 By the end of it, I think we had spent about $500 to $600 total on equipment.
0:06:14 But a lot of that stuff had been added on, like after we started making money up first.
0:06:21 But all in all, pretty low startup cost business. And I’m glad you clarified what you were extracting.
0:06:27 It’s like, well, what does an extractor do here? It is very clear my car has never been cleaned to this level of detail.
0:06:32 So maybe I am due for a detailing. But maybe that goes to the next section is like, well,
0:06:38 you probably don’t have many late model Ford Escapes as customers. Like, what kind of cars are you working on here?
0:06:42 Most of the time, our customers, it is their first time having the detail done.
0:06:47 We always luck out every now and then by having the customer that they do clean their car a lot.
0:06:52 And a lot of the times they call us up for a full detail, expecting to pay the full price.
0:06:54 And their car is not bad at all.
0:06:58 And those are usually the customers that say to us like, oh, my car is so bad.
0:07:01 I’m so sorry. Those are the best case scenarios for us.
0:07:03 You’re like, believe me, believe me, we’ve seen worse.
0:07:05 Exactly. That’s what we like to tell people.
0:07:11 So right now, a lot of the time we are doing customers that it’s the first time they’re ever
0:07:17 having their vehicle detailed. They probably saw one of our advertisements on Facebook,
0:07:23 or they heard about us through a friend and they realized like, wow, my car needs to be detailed.
0:07:25 I would love to have it just spotless.
0:07:30 Some people even can search on Google if they search for like mobile car washing or mobile
0:07:33 detailing in my area or even detailing in my area.
0:07:35 We do show up in some of the Google results, too.
0:07:40 So definitely those first time customers are, I would say, our prime target market.
0:07:42 We also have a dealership.
0:07:47 It’s a small dealership that calls us about three or four times a week for different cars.
0:07:55 And that’s the best case scenario because they are reoccurring and they’re always bringing new cars in from auction.
0:08:02 That is someone that we can rely on without having to spend any new marketing dollars towards every single week.
0:08:03 Yeah, that’s awesome.
0:08:05 How did you start that relationship?
0:08:10 They called us and I’m not sure how they found us out.
0:08:19 It’s a question that I should probably figure out because the dealership owner called us and he either found us through one of two ways.
0:08:23 He either found us through a Facebook ad or through Google at the time.
0:08:31 And he reached out and just asked about coming to their dealership and doing detailings for them on a weekly basis.
0:08:37 We said absolutely, came out, agreed on a price that we would start at, and we just went from there.
0:08:38 Okay.
0:08:48 For these first customers, either the dealership or the friends and family, mom’s text and Facebook post, how did you figure out how much to charge these folks?
0:08:51 So that one was kind of random.
0:08:52 We started low.
0:08:59 I think that we initially started with $30 for a full detail, both inside and out.
0:09:01 I believe that took us around two hours.
0:09:06 We didn’t have all the add-on services at the time, so we were just doing like vacuuming, wiping things down.
0:09:10 We were putting a shine on like all the upholstery, kind of like an armor roll.
0:09:12 And it was around $30.
0:09:16 I think we actually had listed it at $50, and we were running a special for $30.
0:09:22 So I remember my brother telling me actually the first day that we did like a stranger’s car.
0:09:25 It was someone that had seen a Facebook ad that we had done.
0:09:29 I remember him telling me whenever we went to go grab lunch, I don’t think this is worth it.
0:09:33 Doing car detailing for this cheap, it’s just not worth my time.
0:09:35 It’s hard work.
0:09:41 And I told him that our prices are only this cheap temporarily, and we would raise them soon.
0:09:52 And really, this was to get initial startup customers to build reviews and to build some kind of marketing materials, as well as experience under our belt.
0:09:54 So it sounds like he’s the one doing the labor.
0:10:01 You’re the one behind the scenes doing the marketing, the Facebook stuff, providing the seed money, and all this.
0:10:04 He’s the one who’s putting the elbow grease into these vehicles.
0:10:05 Absolutely.
0:10:07 It wouldn’t be able to work without him.
0:10:10 But at the beginning, I definitely was helping him out.
0:10:13 And then now he does primarily all of the detailing.
0:10:21 More with Josh in just a moment, including collecting positive customer reviews, quoting jobs, and some more creative marketing ideas.
0:10:23 Coming up right after this.
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0:12:47 Okay, so starting very, very inexpensively to the point where the labor is questioning whether or not it’s even worth it.
0:12:50 But hey, we’re building up before and after pictures.
0:12:53 We’re building up hopefully happy customer testimonials.
0:12:58 Did you do anything specific to request those reviews on Google or Yelp or Facebook?
0:13:08 Yeah, so I had been – I had done some Amazon FBA selling before I got into the mobile detailing business, and it had failed massively.
0:13:19 I lost around $3,000 in the span of about six months, and I think I put in about six months to a year of total prep work, learning how to do this whole business model.
0:13:24 And while I lost out on a lot of money, I learned a ton of stuff.
0:13:32 And one of the things that I learned from this coach actually that I had bought a course from was the importance of reaching out and asking for a review.
0:13:40 And making that as easy as possible by sending them a link where they can click on the link, and it’ll immediately take them to either a Facebook or a Google review.
0:13:45 So before we even went in with our first customer, we had that review link set up.
0:13:52 And as soon as we were finished with the service, we would just ask them, hey, we’d greatly appreciate it if you could leave us a positive review.
0:13:55 And at first, we were just doing Facebook.
0:13:56 We eventually switched over to doing Google.
0:14:04 We try not to overwhelm them by doing both of them at the same time, although if there’s someone that really wants to leave a review, we often will send them both review links.
0:14:10 But we kind of switched off by doing one or the other just to try to build up positive feedback on both those sites.
0:14:17 Facebook seems like an interesting option to try and solicit reviews for where Google makes sense to me.
0:14:20 I can show up in Google search results.
0:14:25 If somebody searches for mobile detailing service near me, you’re likely to show up there.
0:14:27 Has that started to happen?
0:14:46 Yes, and that’s a great point because you want to build your business to where over time it will start to rank organically and you’ve established your presence and you’ve built up your reviews on Google because there will be a ton of people that will be searching for mobile detailing near me, car washes near me.
0:14:56 And if you can build up those positive reviews and you can have a good rank on Google, that’ll help with reaching people organically without having to spend advertising dollars.
0:14:59 Have you seen any of that start to take effect?
0:15:04 I would say we get probably five to seven calls a week from organic Google traffic.
0:15:06 Two months ago, that was zero.
0:15:08 So it can pick up pretty quickly there.
0:15:11 I was going to say 30 bucks is a steal.
0:15:15 You can come over to my house anytime, but it sounds like pricing has evolved a little bit since then.
0:15:20 What’s it look like today and maybe how much time does that take you?
0:15:23 So it was a couple hours, you know, maybe to do this full detail.
0:15:29 Have you or has your brother improved his speed and process or really depends on the car?
0:15:30 Yeah, definitely.
0:15:33 We’ve improved the speed and process for sure.
0:15:37 And that just comes with experience and learning like what method to use, what to do first.
0:15:41 We started out with, like I said, about $50 for a full detail.
0:15:52 Soon after, once we started to get a little bit more, a little bit more traffic in, we raised it about $20 up to $70, eventually raise it up to $100 within like a few months after that, eventually up to like $120.
0:16:02 And now, as of a few months ago, we’ve established $90 for starting cost or starting price for doing an interior detail.
0:16:08 We start at $50 for exterior detail and then $140 starting price for a full detail.
0:16:17 And notice I said starting cost because I tell every single person that calls me and wants a quote that we must inspect the vehicle beforehand.
0:16:23 And that’s because some vehicles take way longer and are way dirtier than others.
0:16:28 And the customer, a lot of the times, will like tell you, oh, my vehicle really isn’t that bad.
0:16:35 And then once you take a look at it, you realize that it’s going to take you five hours of work and the initial $100 you quoted them is not worth it anymore.
0:16:41 So it’s very important that you tell the customer that we will need to inspect it to give you an exact quote.
0:16:54 A lot of the times, I will offer to give a quote to them for free and we can set up a time to come out directly to their work or to their home at their convenience and give them a quick five to ten minute quote.
0:17:01 Either myself or my brother will go out and we’ll take a look at it, kind of talk to them about what things they were liking to have done.
0:17:14 If they were liking to have their carpet shampooed or if they were liking to have their leather seats conditioned or if they were wanting to have a special kind of coating put on the exterior, all those things will communicate with them and then come out of quotes.
0:17:24 So the starting price for the interior, the $90, it does not include things like carpet shampooing or seat shampooing or leather conditioning or if there is excess dog hair.
0:17:37 Those are things that we do add on extra for and then if they have like a truck or an SUV, we’ll charge a little bit extra for that or if they were wanting something like a cream wax or ceramic coating, we’ll charge them extra for that as well.
0:17:40 Is there an hourly rate you’re shooting for on those quotes?
0:17:41 Yeah.
0:17:43 So we go for $40 to $50 an hour.
0:17:47 That is a fantastic college gig.
0:17:49 I mean, that’s a fantastic gig for anybody.
0:17:50 That’s pretty cool.
0:18:01 When you guys were starting out, I’m curious if there were any, if there was any competitive analysis, competitive research, like, oh, there’s already half a dozen detailers in town.
0:18:03 I don’t think there’s a market for this.
0:18:06 Like, did any of that go through your head or was that part of the process?
0:18:19 We definitely did think of that because there are a ton of other detailers and a lot of the, a lot of the detailers that were online, they were charging, charging quite a bit for their services.
0:18:21 And well, they were also, they weren’t mobile.
0:18:23 So you had to go directly to them.
0:18:28 And a huge part of our business is the fact that we can come directly to your home and do it.
0:18:32 So you could be sitting on the couch, watching TV on Saturday morning and we can be cleaning your car.
0:18:35 So that is a huge selling point.
0:18:39 And there was no one that was really doing that business model in our town.
0:18:43 But even if there is, there’s still so many holes in the market that people leave.
0:18:46 And there’s so much opportunity that it definitely isn’t an end all be all.
0:18:56 I will also say that a lot of the dealerships, especially on Google, when you go to look at their reviews, their reviews aren’t the best.
0:19:02 And they treat their customers, I think that they pump in customers a lot and they don’t treat their customers as well.
0:19:06 So we really go for 100% satisfaction guaranteed.
0:19:16 We’ve had several customers who will call me after my brother has taken care of the car and say, hey, this wasn’t up to my standards.
0:19:18 I thought that it would be different.
0:19:22 Would you come out and, and take care of this again?
0:19:25 And sometimes they won’t even offer that, but I will always tell them.
0:19:31 That we will absolutely find a time to come out and to make this right with no extra charge.
0:19:35 And we have never had a bad review because of that.
0:19:36 We always make it right.
0:19:41 And I always make sure to tell my brother that communication is key.
0:19:50 So he’s learned over time to have the customer take a look at the vehicle and walk around through it once they’re finished up to make sure that everything is up to their standards.
0:19:56 And we didn’t miss any spots is sometimes the customer may know the vehicle a little bit better than we do.
0:19:59 There might be some nicks and crannies that we weren’t aware of.
0:20:02 So it is communication is key.
0:20:16 Well, I think that’s a big advantage you guys have as, as a, as a smaller company is the customer feels comfortable calling you up and telling you rather than blasting an anonymous review online, like they might with a, with a larger company.
0:20:24 It’s like, I know, like I have a little bit more of a personal relationship with these guys and, you know, I don’t want to, I don’t want to hurt their business, but I want to give them a chance to make it right.
0:20:28 I think that’s an advantage for smaller operators in this space.
0:20:36 One thing I’m curious about now, you mentioned like, Hey, you’re sitting here inside, you’re watching football while you guys are out working on the car in the driveway.
0:20:41 I imagine that can lend itself to neighbors walking by.
0:20:49 I don’t know if you’re allowed to like put up a little sign as you’re vacuuming out the car or something that says like, Hey, bulk mobile detailing is here or working on this.
0:20:55 But like, can you give me a sense of the just natural marketing that happens during the work?
0:20:56 It’s great.
0:21:07 Whenever that happens, whenever a customer can just come by that it’s either a neighbor or they’re maybe driving by and they, they see our car outside and they see the pressure washer all hooked up.
0:21:10 They stop and ask us, Hey, how much do you guys charge?
0:21:11 Or what are you guys doing?
0:21:15 And you can start a lot of business just by that.
0:21:17 And the best part about that is it’s all free.
0:21:20 You don’t have to do anything to, to market to those kinds of people.
0:21:30 I mean, a lot of the times just by them seeing their neighbor or someone that they know getting their car detailed, it immediately builds up that, that trust.
0:21:32 They are much more likely to sign up for a detailing.
0:21:45 You ever go to like an office park or an office building where if you could somehow get in with the office manager, I don’t know, like the property management company and just set these up on a lunch break or you guys could do it all day long.
0:21:48 Like, you know, have people bring down their keys or something.
0:21:48 I don’t know.
0:21:50 Just spitballing here.
0:21:52 Yeah, I think that’s a great idea.
0:21:54 And that’s something that’s untapped.
0:21:56 So that goes back to what I was saying.
0:22:05 I don’t think that no matter how many mobile detailers are in anybody’s area, there is so much room to grow and there’s so many untapped markets still.
0:22:11 And that is something that we haven’t explored much yet, but I think it’s got great potential.
0:22:22 And I think that it could be a great reoccurring customer to come down like every Friday to this office building and you might be able to knock out five cars in a day at $100 each.
0:22:25 I think that that is a great business model.
0:22:31 And what’s best about it is it can be reoccurring and it could happen every single week or every month if you set it up that way.
0:22:39 Man, I can even see some employers like offering it as a perk of working here, of coming to this office.
0:22:44 Like, hey, you know, they’re the ones maybe they foot the bill and like, hey, we’ve got capacity to do five of these every week.
0:22:45 Put your name on the wait list.
0:22:48 I think that could be an interesting way to go.
0:22:50 But you mentioned Facebook ads a couple of times.
0:23:01 And so curious how this works, because it’s something that, you know, scrolling through my Facebook feed, maybe I wasn’t necessarily in the market for it.
0:23:03 But then I see an ad and all of a sudden I’m ready to click buy.
0:23:05 How’s Facebook working for you in that way?
0:23:06 So it’s interesting.
0:23:15 We spent $100 on an initial giveaway, and that’s how I thought that we were going to gain the bulk of our starting customers.
0:23:18 That was in New Year’s of last year.
0:23:19 It was like a New Year’s special.
0:23:28 Starting with the new year, we actually decided to give away one month or each month of the whole year, you would get a free car wash.
0:23:36 And all you had to do was sign up, was enter your email, and then at the end of this week that we would contact them, and we’d let them know the winner.
0:23:40 We spent about $100, and I think I got about 50 leads from it.
0:23:47 Out of those people, we picked one person, and that person actually told us, I don’t want your giveaway.
0:23:50 So why did they sign up for it if they didn’t want it?
0:23:56 So I think that maybe she thought that it was a scam, or she just decided she didn’t want it.
0:23:57 Might have been an impulse click.
0:24:08 So nonetheless, we targeted those people that we had captured their emails, and we decided to give every single person 50% off if they would sign up in the next two weeks.
0:24:20 Out of those, we got one person, and that was our starting customer that we started with, and we used that person to get marketing pictures for.
0:24:24 Their sister was actually there at the house and decided to book her detailing with us, too.
0:24:31 So that was a great start, but that was an unsuccessful Facebook ad campaign.
0:24:44 However, about a month later, we decided to run a Valentine’s Day special, and we had a gift card that we were selling for $59.99, and it included an interior detail and an exterior wash.
0:24:49 I spent about $80 on Facebook ads over about a week period.
0:24:58 We got 290 landing page views, and we were just driving people directly to the gift card purchase page on our website.
0:25:01 As a direct result, we got about $600 in gift card sales.
0:25:07 So I just used Canva to create just kind of like an appealing Valentine’s Day gift card.
0:25:10 It just said like, Happy Valentine’s Day.
0:25:14 Here is a free car detailing, interior detail, and a wash.
0:25:25 We would send this email and this Canva template of a gift card to them whenever they would purchase it, so that way they could print it off and put it in a card and send it to their loved ones.
0:25:26 So that did really well.
0:25:27 That’s pretty creative.
0:25:28 I like it, yeah.
0:25:30 Yeah, we got a lot of indirect sales off of that, too.
0:25:33 So it wasn’t just people all who bought the gift card.
0:25:39 Some would just reach out and then want to book a detailing for the full price because that was a special price at the time.
0:25:44 We eventually went on to do a Mother’s Day special in the month of May.
0:25:47 That was our most successful campaign that we had run.
0:25:53 Between the 3rd of May and the 9th of May, we spent $67 on Facebook ads.
0:26:03 We got 216 landing page views and $2,200 in sales as a direct result, and that was just gift card sales.
0:26:14 So we had probably an additional $1,000 to $2,000 in sales that resulted from people just deciding to send us an email because, hey, I saw your ad.
0:26:20 They weren’t necessarily wanting to buy the gift card, but they still wanted to book a detail, or maybe they decided to reach out later on.
0:26:29 So we spent $67 and made $2,200 in gift card sales plus the other benefits that came with the exposure of running these ads.
0:26:37 Yep. We reached about 6,500 people total, and it was a $0.31 cost per landing page views.
0:26:44 You mentioned doing FBA before this, but did you study Facebook ads as a part of that experiment as well?
0:26:48 It seems like awesome results relatively pretty quick out of the gate.
0:26:55 Yeah, so I had a big part of that FBA launch, and launching the product was doing a Facebook ad campaign.
0:26:59 And Facebook is very simple to use their ad account manager.
0:27:13 I mean, it’s as simple as choosing who you think your target audience would be, whether it would be 40 to 50-year-old women who enjoy arts and crafts
0:27:18 and also have kids between the ages of 10 and 16.
0:27:23 You can target that specifically on Facebook, and that’s exactly what we did.
0:27:28 And then you can just set whether you want to spend $5 or $10 a day and how long you want to run your ad.
0:27:32 So Facebook really is not challenging.
0:27:35 I think that it’s very easy to use, but I did have a little bit of experience coming in.
0:27:38 Well, those are pretty impressive results.
0:27:44 Anything else, either on the Facebook ad side or other marketing efforts that have paid off for you?
0:27:51 We’ve done a few Google ads where if someone searches automotive detailing in my area, we would be the one to show up.
0:27:54 That one hasn’t been as successful.
0:27:55 It was all right.
0:27:57 We’re still exploring that avenue.
0:28:08 Google SEO is obviously huge, just ranking organically, making sure your website is optimized so that over time you will show up on Google organic searches.
0:28:10 We tried Nextdoor app.
0:28:12 Are you familiar with the Nextdoor app?
0:28:13 Yes.
0:28:14 We tried that.
0:28:18 I ran a $50 campaign on there, and we didn’t have anyone reach out.
0:28:28 But that one is interesting because I see people posting all the time for things like yard work or roof repair or pest control in there, asking if their friends and family know people.
0:28:35 So I think that there’s definitely still room to grow on the Nextdoor app, but so far, that paid campaign hadn’t been the best for us.
0:28:37 Obviously, word of mouth is huge, too.
0:28:40 Whenever we first started, we actually did go door to door.
0:28:48 I think that I really just wanted to get the experience with my brother and just to kind of show him like, hey, this is what some people have to do on a day-by-day basis to gain business.
0:28:50 So we tried that out.
0:28:51 We printed out some flyers.
0:28:57 Didn’t have anyone that called us after putting flyers and knocking on about 50 people’s door.
0:28:58 It was freezing outside.
0:29:00 We decided to call it quits early.
0:29:03 I think everybody should have the experience of going door to door at some point.
0:29:04 Absolutely.
0:29:08 Did you guys have custom-built detailing polo shirts made up or something?
0:29:11 I’m curious, like, well, you said it was freezing, so you probably got jackets on.
0:29:13 We didn’t at the time.
0:29:15 That would have been a great addition, though.
0:29:16 Now we do.
0:29:20 We recently bought several shirts and polos to use.
0:29:27 We try to use the polos whenever we’re giving people quotes, and then we try to use the t-shirts, obviously, whenever we’re doing the work.
0:29:35 More with Josh in just a moment, including hiring additional help, the tools and tech he uses to help run the business, and where he wants to go from here.
0:29:36 Coming up right after this.
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0:31:53 Has it expanded beyond you and your brother doing the marketing, doing the work these days?
0:31:57 We had one of the guys that I actually went to high school with.
0:31:58 He was a few years older than me.
0:32:02 I had noticed that he was doing mobile detailing, and I had reached out to him.
0:32:13 We had had him helping us out here and there, but he was maintaining a full-time job as well and just wasn’t able to make as much time as we had really liked him to.
0:32:24 My brother did have a few friends of his that would come and help out here and there with things, but eventually all those people ended up getting full-time jobs somewhere else.
0:32:25 We were just kind of spotty with it.
0:32:27 It wasn’t necessarily consistent.
0:32:33 They might make a lot of money in a day, but we might not always need them every day of the week.
0:32:39 It might be just two days or one day, so eventually they all decided to go elsewhere.
0:32:46 Are there any tools or technology that you’re using to help manage the customer database or manage the bookings that come in?
0:32:48 Yeah, that’s a great question.
0:32:53 Square Appointments is what we use, and Square Appointments has just been awesome.
0:32:58 They do so much of the tax side of things.
0:33:01 They can track all of your progress and your reports.
0:33:05 They can track exactly which services you’re selling the most of.
0:33:09 Is this Square the same as the credit card reader?
0:33:16 Yep, exactly, and they will actually send you a free credit card reader, which is like a $50 value whenever you set up your account.
0:33:20 So we use that currently whenever we’re taking credit cards from people.
0:33:26 If we don’t do that, a lot of the times that we will prefer cash or check, obviously, we can also send someone an invoice.
0:33:33 If they weren’t there at the time, whenever we finished up, we could send them an invoice to their email, and they can pay like that, and that is also set up through Square.
0:33:34 Cool.
0:33:35 Well, Josh, what’s next for you?
0:33:37 Where do you want to take this thing?
0:33:43 I tell my brother all the time that you can evolve this detailing business to be anything, anything automotive-related.
0:33:50 You can evolve it to be auto repairs, oil changes, tire changes, car washes.
0:33:53 There’s so much room for growth.
0:33:58 People don’t want to have five different businesses or people to take care of their car.
0:34:04 In fact, they would love if they could just have one person that they reach out to for everything automotive-related.
0:34:12 So utilizing that book of business that we’ve built up for the detailing customers to eventually expand into other things is definitely a possibility.
0:34:15 I started this business with my brother in mind.
0:34:29 I wanted to help him out to help him make some money while he’s starting college and while he was finishing up high school so where he doesn’t have to be strapped down to some job and some boss that’s telling him what to do all the time.
0:34:33 And he can also kind of get that practical business experience, too.
0:34:38 So my plan is actually to pass it off to him eventually.
0:34:49 I would like to stay involved just kind of as a mentor and a mediator of the business in some way, but I would like him to eventually to take it on full-time.
0:34:57 As far as me, I will be graduating in May of this year, and I’m planning as of now to start a full-time career as a financial advisor.
0:35:06 I think that helping people with money and managing their money and creating financial freedom for themselves is a calling that I have.
0:35:12 It’s something that I’ve always been interested in and enjoyed, so I think that’s something that I’m shooting for.
0:35:26 But at the same time, I’m also passionate about helping student entrepreneurs just to reach their full potential because I think that there’s so many student entrepreneurs that rely on college and are forced to go to college through their parents or through their peers.
0:35:35 I think that there’s so many other ways in which student entrepreneurs can explore and so many other paths.
0:35:42 I just don’t think that it’s shown on the mainstream, and a lot of the times friends and family don’t support that.
0:35:52 So I’m also exploring trying to create some kind of community for those student entrepreneurs just to connect with each other, to make friends, and to kind of explore avenues outside of college.
0:35:55 Do you have a home base or landing page for that yet?
0:35:57 I’m currently working on it.
0:36:03 The name of the site is Student Hustles, but I don’t have it finished up yet.
0:36:05 Looking for a lot of help on it.
0:36:12 Obviously, I’m very busy with a full-time job as a web designer, helping out with the detailing business and going to school full-time.
0:36:15 So it’s difficult to find time for that.
0:36:21 Eventually, I’d like to pass off this detailing business to my brother full-time and be able to focus a little bit more on that, especially after college.
0:36:22 All right.
0:36:28 Well, when it is ready, we will be sure to link everybody up to Student Hustles.
0:36:29 Josh, I appreciate you joining me.
0:36:31 I know you’ve got a lot going on.
0:36:37 I appreciate you taking the time and sharing the inside workings of the mobile detailing operation.
0:36:40 Like Josh said, $40, $50 an hour on your own schedule.
0:36:42 This is a pretty interesting one.
0:36:47 Let’s wrap this thing up with your number one tip for Side Hustle Nation.
0:36:52 My number one tip for Side Hustle Nation would be consistency always wins.
0:37:01 And even if you’re starting out and you’re not really sure where to go or what to do, day by day, moment by moment, stay consistent with what you do.
0:37:08 Whether it’s with working out or building up a business or studying for school, consistency always wins.
0:37:10 It is so true.
0:37:12 Josh, thanks so much.
0:37:13 And we’ll catch up with you soon.
0:37:23 In Josh’s initial email to me, he called himself a, quote, obsessed entrepreneur.
0:37:28 And he wrote that, I see my family and peers stuck in the rat race, living paycheck to paycheck.
0:37:31 And I do not want that to happen to me after college.
0:37:33 And so Josh took action.
0:37:36 He committed to learning along the way, but he took action.
0:37:41 And since you’re listening to this, I think you probably have at least a little bit of that same attitude, too.
0:37:45 Even if your college days are, like mine, ancient history or maybe never even happened.
0:37:50 But regardless, the good news here is that everything is learnable.
0:37:50 All right.
0:37:53 My top three takeaways from this call with Josh.
0:37:56 Number one is to think first time customers.
0:38:03 Josh mentioned that many, if not most of his clients have never had a car detailed before.
0:38:09 That’s one reason I’m excited about these types of local service businesses, that the pie just keeps getting bigger.
0:38:14 A generation ago, people would either do it themselves or not do it at all.
0:38:18 And today, people are happily paying someone else to go do it for them.
0:38:20 Now, how does the saying go?
0:38:23 A luxury once experienced becomes a necessity.
0:38:27 But that’s great news for providers of local services like mobile detailing.
0:38:35 I thought Josh’s gift card campaigns on social media were a really cool idea because it is kind of a luxury service.
0:38:38 It makes for a great treat yourself kind of gift, right?
0:38:42 Now, could you apply a similar strategy in your business around the upcoming holidays?
0:38:44 That’s takeaway number one for me.
0:38:46 Focus on these first time customers.
0:38:50 Maybe they’ve never bought a service like yours before, but there’s a first time for everything.
0:38:53 Takeaway number two is to collect reviews.
0:39:00 For any new business, social proof and building trust with those first time customers is so crucial.
0:39:07 And I like how Josh mentioned that they had the review links for Facebook and Google ready to go before they even had a customer.
0:39:15 The cool thing is here for most local services in most cities is not going to take that many reviews to stand out.
0:39:17 Maybe five, maybe ten, and you’re off to the races.
0:39:23 And this is especially important if you’re following their strategy of pricing low early on.
0:39:30 Working for less than you normally would makes sense if you can turn that client into several more clients,
0:39:34 either through their glowing testimonial or through word of mouth.
0:39:39 That was takeaway number two for me to collect reviews and be really diligent about that.
0:39:43 Takeaway number three was to target business to business, target business customers.
0:39:50 It sounded like the most consistent source of jobs were from their relationship with that local car dealership,
0:39:59 which makes sense because they’re constantly turning over inventory where an individual car owner might get his car done or her car done maybe a few times a year at most.
0:40:09 If I had the capacity, if I were in Josh’s shoes and had the capacity, I would be building relationships with other similar businesses, other similar dealerships.
0:40:18 And you might find through conversations there’s a sweet spot where the super small used car lots do it themselves and the mega dealers,
0:40:22 maybe they already have somebody in-house, but you never know until you strike up that conversation.
0:40:29 Now, that said, Josh did say it can be tough to find other detailers, subcontractor detailers,
0:40:34 to fulfill that work because it can be a little inconsistent in terms of timing and demand.
0:40:41 And I think that’s a struggle for a lot of freelancers, a lot of service providers who need or want to graduate from doing the work themselves.
0:40:45 But maybe they don’t have the volume to hire it out yet.
0:40:47 Maybe they don’t have the margins to hire it out yet.
0:40:53 In our cleaning conversations with Chris Schwab, he called it the trough of despair or the valley of despair.
0:41:00 But if you can find great workers to build out your team, like Josh said, there’s a ton of opportunity for growth here.
0:41:06 But going back to the thing on targeting a business customer, it could be as simple as asking the question,
0:41:08 how do you guys handle detailing around here?
0:41:09 Start that conversation, right?
0:41:15 And if you today have a primarily consumer-facing business, a consumer-facing operation,
0:41:23 is there a slight pivot or refocusing that would make that offer of yours applicable to a business customer?
0:41:24 Something to think about.
0:41:32 And cool side note here is that in niches like this, where there is no dominant regional or national player,
0:41:34 there’s an opportunity to go really big.
0:41:38 Think beyond the side hustle to go really big and become that player.
0:41:45 Maybe in this case, it looks like a booking or matchmaking app that connects you with a reliable,
0:41:50 reputable local service provider and just takes a percentage of each job.
0:41:53 Like firsthand, I use a similar service for house cleaning called Handy.
0:41:55 It’s very easy to do business with.
0:41:57 I came across GreenPal.
0:41:59 You’ll find it at yourgreenpal.com.
0:42:03 They’re building something similar in the lawn mowing and yard care space.
0:42:08 In the virtual space, we’ve heard from folks like Design Pickle for graphic design.
0:42:12 There’s Belay Solutions in the virtual assistant arena.
0:42:15 It’s an exciting place to explore, for sure.
0:42:21 But once again, make sure to hit up SideHustleNation.com slash detailing for the full text summary of our call
0:42:23 and links to all the resources that Josh mentioned.
0:42:25 Hey, one last thing.
0:42:26 Can I send you some free stuff?
0:42:32 If you head on over to SideHustleNation.com slash join, I’ll send you my free report,
0:42:37 The Five Fastest Ways to Make More Money, plus my weekly newsletter packed with money-making ideas.
0:42:42 On top of that, you’ll also get access to hundreds of members-only goodies and bonus files,
0:42:46 including tons of tactical tips from top podcast guests,
0:42:52 plus an invite to the world’s largest, most active, and most supportive SideHustle community.
0:42:56 That’s all free for you at SideHustleNation.com slash join,
0:43:00 or text the code HUSTLEON to 33444.
0:43:02 That is it for me.
0:43:03 Thank you so much for tuning in.
0:43:06 Until next time, let’s go out there and make something happen,
0:43:09 and I’ll catch you in the next edition of The Side Hustle Show.
0:43:10 Hustle on.

0:00:04 The path to $1,000 a month with digital products.
0:00:06 You know money doesn’t grow on trees,
0:00:09 but you do know that you can plant your own money seeds.
0:00:11 And by the end of the episode today,
0:00:13 you’re gonna have a path forward on how to do just that
0:00:16 on one of the biggest marketplaces in the world.
0:00:18 This is the Side Hustle Show.
0:00:20 It’s the business podcast you can actually apply.
0:00:22 Today’s guest is a long-time listener.
0:00:25 He’s a serial side hustler, real estate investor,
0:00:27 digital product seller, online course entrepreneur
0:00:29 from Gold City Ventures.
0:00:31 And The Fi Show, Cody Berman.
0:00:33 Welcome to the Side Hustle Show.
0:00:35 I am very excited to be here, Nick,
0:00:36 and talking with you today
0:00:39 and hopefully drop some knowledge bombs on the listeners.
0:00:39 Yeah, you bet.
0:00:41 It has been a long time coming.
0:00:43 We’ve got three rounds with Cody today,
0:00:45 including donate a business idea.
0:00:48 But we’re gonna start with his latest side hustle,
0:00:51 a brand new Etsy store that started last summer
0:00:55 and a few months in was earning $1,000 a month.
0:00:57 And now, Cody, you’re known online
0:00:59 as like the printable seller’s guy.
0:01:01 And my understanding is you get an email
0:01:02 and you get a comment that says something
0:01:05 to the effect of, well, sure, it must be nice,
0:01:06 you know, having started in 2018.
0:01:08 But what about us?
0:01:09 What about today when the marketplace
0:01:11 is so much more crowded,
0:01:13 all the good niches are already taken,
0:01:16 and you’re like, okay, challenge accepted.
0:01:16 Let’s do this.
0:01:17 Let’s start a brand new store
0:01:19 and see what we can do with this.
0:01:21 Yeah, so as a online content creator,
0:01:24 I’m sure you’re no stranger to this, Nick.
0:01:25 There are haters out there.
0:01:27 And so you get hateful comments on all your videos,
0:01:29 all your podcasts, there’s always one.
0:01:32 And someone on, I think it was on a YouTube video,
0:01:33 or maybe it was a short,
0:01:35 they said something to the effect of,
0:01:36 well, of course you were successful.
0:01:37 You did this in 2018.
0:01:39 The Etsy market’s so different now.
0:01:41 You could never repeat your success.
0:01:43 And I’m like, okay, buddy, like I can do this.
0:01:44 I’m gonna repeat my success.
0:01:46 So I started a brand new shop,
0:01:48 didn’t tell anybody about it,
0:01:49 didn’t post it on social,
0:01:51 didn’t market it to my email list,
0:01:52 didn’t mention it on the website,
0:01:55 like completely in a silo, blank, from scratch,
0:01:56 and was able to get that shop
0:02:00 up to $1,000 per month in revenue in 116 days.
0:02:02 Love it, love it.
0:02:04 So we’re gonna break down how that works,
0:02:07 starting with maybe the high level of,
0:02:07 well, what am I gonna sell?
0:02:10 How do I figure out what the demand is,
0:02:11 the keyword research behind that,
0:02:13 or the product creation strategies behind that?
0:02:14 But where do you start?
0:02:15 What do you say, like, okay,
0:02:16 I’m looking at this blank slate.
0:02:19 What kind of product could I sell?
0:02:21 The best thing with your audience,
0:02:23 and I am catering these answers
0:02:24 specifically to some people
0:02:26 who are already entrepreneurs or side hustlers.
0:02:28 If you’re already a side hustler,
0:02:29 look at what you already have
0:02:30 and what you’re already using.
0:02:32 So some easy examples.
0:02:34 If you’re someone who’s in the personal finance niche,
0:02:37 and you already have this amazing debt pay down tracker,
0:02:39 or you already have this amazing net worth tracker,
0:02:42 or maybe you have a tracker for your side hustles,
0:02:45 you can very easily just kind of white label it,
0:02:47 templatize it, and flip that.
0:02:48 And now instead of just a product
0:02:50 that you’re using for yourself,
0:02:51 like a random Google sheet,
0:02:53 now you can actually go and sell this thing
0:02:55 on marketplaces like Etsy.
0:02:57 And I’ve seen this work so many times over.
0:02:58 We’re both podcasters, Nick.
0:03:00 I’m sure you have a media kit
0:03:02 or something that you can send to potential sponsors.
0:03:03 Like, hey, here’s my downloads.
0:03:04 Here’s my stats.
0:03:06 So a couple of years ago
0:03:07 for the Financial Independence Show,
0:03:08 my podcast,
0:03:10 we put together like this really extensive media kit.
0:03:11 And I’m like,
0:03:13 well, I just spent all this time on Canva
0:03:14 making this like awesome media kit.
0:03:16 What if I just white label it
0:03:18 and resell it as an editable media kit?
0:03:20 And it sold a bunch of times.
0:03:22 So there’s so many examples
0:03:23 that side hustlers like us,
0:03:26 people who are already doing something entrepreneurial,
0:03:28 you might have resources in your own life
0:03:29 that you’re using
0:03:31 that you can just easily repurpose,
0:03:32 turn into a template,
0:03:33 and then sell to other people.
0:03:35 I mean, there’s been six
0:03:37 and seven figure businesses built off this stuff.
0:03:39 I was actually on a real estate show
0:03:39 a couple of weeks ago
0:03:41 talking about digital products and printables.
0:03:44 And you look at a company like BiggerPockets
0:03:46 and they’re selling all these different calculators
0:03:47 and spreadsheets and things like that.
0:03:49 I mean, that’s probably adding six
0:03:50 or seven figures to their bottom line,
0:03:53 just basically taking one template
0:03:54 for a thing that they’re already doing
0:03:56 and then white labeling it
0:03:58 and then reselling it to, you know,
0:03:59 hundreds of thousands of people in their case.
0:04:00 Yeah, it’s an interesting
0:04:03 selling your sawdust type of example
0:04:03 where it’s like,
0:04:05 I already created this thing
0:04:07 and the ideas I’ve kicked around
0:04:08 and like a habit tracker
0:04:12 or a podcast production checklist planner
0:04:13 or sponsorship tracker.
0:04:15 There’s all sorts of these different tools
0:04:16 that you may already be using.
0:04:18 It may be an incremental revenue stream
0:04:20 to the business that you already have,
0:04:21 the side hustle that you already have,
0:04:24 or it could be a completely new thing
0:04:26 that is kind of a standalone entity.
0:04:29 So it sounds like the new shop
0:04:31 was more of that standalone type of variety.
0:04:33 Yeah, the new shop was more of a standalone.
0:04:35 I just wanted to mention the use what you already have
0:04:37 because that’s often the easiest place to start.
0:04:38 Now, if you’re someone who’s listening,
0:04:40 you’re like, well, I don’t already have a side hustle.
0:04:42 I don’t have any awesome spreadsheets
0:04:43 or any cool tools that I’m using myself.
0:04:46 For this new shop, here was my basic strategy.
0:04:49 So I would just brainstorm a giant list
0:04:50 of potential ideas.
0:04:51 This would be for my own head.
0:04:54 I would also use chat GPT to come up with ideas,
0:04:55 although it’s hit or miss.
0:04:58 And then once I would have like a massive list
0:04:59 of product ideas,
0:05:00 and these could be anything from,
0:05:02 I should probably define what printables are,
0:05:02 digital downloads,
0:05:05 just so people aren’t just thinking abstractly about this.
0:05:07 So printables and digital downloads
0:05:09 is basically a digital file that you create
0:05:10 in a program like Canva.
0:05:12 You would then upload that digital file
0:05:13 into your Etsy shop.
0:05:15 And when someone buys it,
0:05:17 the digital file would automatically be delivered to the buyer.
0:05:18 So I already mentioned some of them,
0:05:20 like a media kit template, for example,
0:05:24 but other ones like checklists, planners, calendars, games, invitations.
0:05:26 There’s thousands of different types of printables.
0:05:29 So just wanted to set the stage, what printables are.
0:05:30 So I create this massive list,
0:05:33 like literally 250 different printable ideas.
0:05:35 Again, these are just things that I think
0:05:36 maybe could make good printables
0:05:39 or things that chat GPT thinks could make good printables.
0:05:39 Okay.
0:05:41 And then once I have that monster list,
0:05:42 that’s when I start to plug them
0:05:44 into like a keyword research tool.
0:05:46 So for Etsy specifically,
0:05:49 ones I use, E-Rank and Everbee.
0:05:51 If you aren’t as familiar with Etsy,
0:05:52 or even if you want to sell outside,
0:05:55 like let’s say you want to open up a Shopify store
0:05:56 or WooCommerce,
0:05:58 you can use other keyword research tools.
0:06:00 Maybe you already have Ahrefs,
0:06:01 or maybe you already use Ubersuggest,
0:06:03 or maybe you’re using some of these other tools.
0:06:05 Like you can use any keyword research tools,
0:06:06 is what I’m trying to say.
0:06:09 I will plug those 250 different ideas
0:06:10 into the keyword research tools
0:06:12 to see one, if there’s search demand,
0:06:14 are people actually searching for this thing
0:06:15 that I want to create?
0:06:17 And two, is there a ton of competition?
0:06:18 Because the last thing I want to do
0:06:20 is compete with everyone and their mother
0:06:22 on some generic digital product
0:06:24 that I’m probably not going to stand out with
0:06:26 because again, everybody is selling it.
0:06:28 So that was kind of my general strategy,
0:06:30 my 10,000 foot view of my strategy
0:06:31 for this new Etsy shop.
0:06:32 Okay, no, that’s helpful.
0:06:35 And even I remember talking with Debbie Gartner,
0:06:37 who was selling all these different games,
0:06:39 like holiday related trivia games.
0:06:41 And there’s like, once I’ve got this template,
0:06:43 well, just lather, rinse and repeat
0:06:44 toward the next holiday that’s coming out.
0:06:46 It was like, oh, I was able to create dozens
0:06:47 of these different things,
0:06:48 which I thought was really creative.
0:06:51 And then we talked to Becky Beach as well,
0:06:53 who really leaned into this chat GPT
0:06:55 for product creation.
0:06:56 And I remember prompting it
0:06:57 like while we were live on the call,
0:06:59 like, what are some, you know,
0:07:01 side hustle related digital printables,
0:07:02 digital products?
0:07:03 And it actually came back
0:07:04 with some decent suggestions,
0:07:06 you know, business planning template,
0:07:08 you know, side hustle budget template.
0:07:09 Like, oh, this is not bad.
0:07:11 One thing I wanted to get your take on
0:07:14 was the idea of static printables
0:07:17 versus a customizable spreadsheet file.
0:07:19 My gut is, and correct me if I’m wrong,
0:07:21 is like the customizable spreadsheet
0:07:22 that may be able to command
0:07:24 a little bit of a higher price,
0:07:26 like higher perceived value for the end user.
0:07:27 You could definitely charge more
0:07:28 with editable printables,
0:07:30 and especially just the bigger
0:07:31 the printable in general,
0:07:32 the more you can charge.
0:07:34 If you have a bundle of a bunch of resources,
0:07:36 you’re going to be able to charge more
0:07:38 than just for one of those standalone resources.
0:07:39 So to answer your question, yes.
0:07:41 But with that being said,
0:07:43 if you do have just like a simple one pager
0:07:46 that you’re selling for $4, $3.99, $4.99,
0:07:49 you can probably make a ton of different variations
0:07:50 very, very quickly.
0:07:52 Whereas a Google sheet,
0:07:53 a very complicated, say,
0:07:56 personal finance tracker with a bunch of tabs,
0:07:57 it’s going to take you a whole lot longer
0:08:00 to create like different variations of that.
0:08:02 So for me, I actually tend to lean
0:08:04 on the side of simpler printables
0:08:05 just because I can pump out
0:08:06 so many different variations.
0:08:09 And for me, and we can get into this new shop,
0:08:10 it was a numbers game.
0:08:12 I was just like throwing spaghetti at the wall
0:08:13 and seeing what would sell.
0:08:16 In E-Rank, and it looks like they have a free version,
0:08:19 which is somewhat limited to five keyword lookups per day,
0:08:20 but pretty affordable plans
0:08:24 if you want up to 200 keyword lookups a day.
0:08:26 So just to get an idea there
0:08:28 of filling demand versus creating demand.
0:08:31 Obviously, I want to go where there is some search volume
0:08:34 versus like trying to create demand from scratch.
0:08:35 If nobody knows you exist
0:08:37 and you create some random product
0:08:38 that nobody’s looking for,
0:08:39 it’s a recipe for disappointment.
0:08:41 Nobody’s ever going to find you on Etsy.
0:08:43 So in these tools,
0:08:45 are there certain metrics?
0:08:46 I don’t know if they,
0:08:47 do they spit out like a,
0:08:49 like TubeBuddy will give you a metric.
0:08:51 Oh, this keyword variation on YouTube
0:08:52 gave you like a 95.
0:08:54 Like, okay, it’s got a good mix
0:08:56 of search volume and competitiveness.
0:08:57 Is there a metric where you’re like,
0:08:59 yes, this is worth going for?
0:09:00 It’s not a numerical score,
0:09:02 but they do make it very easy and color-coded.
0:09:03 So on eRank,
0:09:04 I don’t know if you’re,
0:09:05 it sounds like you’re on the website,
0:09:06 for example,
0:09:07 if you type in a keyword,
0:09:09 you’ll see the search volume and competition.
0:09:11 The search volume and competition
0:09:13 both range with like a color-coded scale.
0:09:14 So for search volume,
0:09:16 green means a lot of people are searching for it.
0:09:18 Yellow is like a couple,
0:09:20 like a medium amount of people are searching for it.
0:09:22 And red means not that many people are searching for it.
0:09:24 Conversely, for competition,
0:09:24 if it’s red,
0:09:26 it means a ton of people are competing on that product.
0:09:28 If it’s yellow, not as many.
0:09:30 If it’s green,
0:09:32 that means there’s like no competition for that product.
0:09:34 Like you might be one of the few players
0:09:35 selling that thing.
0:09:37 So I typically liked,
0:09:38 I mean, in an ideal world,
0:09:39 I love to be green, green.
0:09:42 And we call those unicorns at Gold City Ventures,
0:09:44 where you have like a ton of search volume
0:09:45 and no competition.
0:09:47 Those are very difficult to find
0:09:48 and few and far between.
0:09:49 I usually,
0:09:50 and especially for this new shop,
0:09:52 would create something that has
0:09:53 usually yellow search demand
0:09:54 and then green competition.
0:09:56 So not many people are competing on it.
0:09:58 And like a medium amount of people
0:09:59 are searching for it.
0:10:00 So that’s kind of the two metrics
0:10:02 that I pay the closest attention to
0:10:03 in these keyword research tools.
0:10:04 Okay.
0:10:05 All else being equal,
0:10:06 go where there’s less competition.
0:10:09 You’re going to be easier to find some eyeballs
0:10:10 and some buyers that way.
0:10:10 Yes.
0:10:12 And I love the phrase,
0:10:13 the riches are in the niches
0:10:14 for this side hustle specifically,
0:10:16 because one of the biggest mistakes
0:10:17 I see people make
0:10:18 is they’ll go on
0:10:19 and they’ll just try to sell
0:10:21 a very generic printable
0:10:21 or digital product.
0:10:23 I always use a thank you card,
0:10:24 for example.
0:10:25 If you type in thank you card
0:10:26 to E-Rank,
0:10:27 you’ll see the competition
0:10:28 is through the roof.
0:10:28 Like it’s,
0:10:30 it’s so bright red.
0:10:32 Every single person on Etsy
0:10:33 tries to sell like a thank you card.
0:10:35 But if you niche down a couple layers
0:10:36 and instead of just
0:10:37 a generic thank you card,
0:10:39 you have maybe a teacher,
0:10:41 like first grade teacher thank you card.
0:10:43 You have a soccer coach thank you card.
0:10:44 You have a ballerina instructor
0:10:45 thank you card.
0:10:46 Like these now
0:10:47 that you’re niching down
0:10:47 a couple layers,
0:10:50 you’re competing with far fewer people.
0:10:50 And so,
0:10:52 and even from the buyer’s perspective,
0:10:55 like getting closer aligned
0:10:56 to what the person is searching for,
0:10:56 they’re going to have
0:10:58 a higher likelihood to buy.
0:10:59 Like just imagine somebody
0:11:00 who’s buying a thank you card
0:11:01 for their ballerina teacher
0:11:03 and they type in
0:11:04 ballerina thank you card.
0:11:04 Yeah.
0:11:05 They’re going to choose
0:11:06 your ballerina thank you card
0:11:07 over just,
0:11:07 you know,
0:11:10 Joe Schmoe’s generic thank you card.
0:11:11 So it’s much more aligned
0:11:12 with the buyer.
0:11:13 And again,
0:11:14 you’re competing with less people
0:11:14 because the riches
0:11:15 are in the niches.
0:11:18 If Canva gets better and better,
0:11:20 do you find that like
0:11:21 people would just go
0:11:23 and make it themselves?
0:11:24 It’s always,
0:11:26 and I asked the same question
0:11:27 to the spreadsheet sellers.
0:11:27 It’s like,
0:11:28 who doesn’t know
0:11:28 how to make a spreadsheet?
0:11:29 Who’s buying this stuff?
0:11:31 But what’s your take on that?
0:11:32 It’s convenience
0:11:33 at the end of the day.
0:11:33 I mean,
0:11:35 a lot of it is a skill gap as well.
0:11:36 The average person
0:11:37 does not know how to use Canva.
0:11:38 If we took a poll
0:11:39 of a random people,
0:11:40 a hundred people in the street,
0:11:41 I don’t know what percentage
0:11:42 are actually going to be able
0:11:43 to know how to create
0:11:45 like a nice looking invitation in Canva,
0:11:46 but probably not a huge percentage
0:11:47 of them.
0:11:48 But the ones that do
0:11:49 are often willing to trade
0:11:50 five,
0:11:50 10,
0:11:52 20 bucks just for convenience
0:11:53 and not having to spend
0:11:53 their time on it.
0:11:54 Okay.
0:11:55 Like I can easily go out
0:11:56 and mow my lawn.
0:11:57 I pay a guy to do it
0:11:58 because it’s convenient.
0:11:59 I have the time.
0:12:00 I have the skills.
0:12:00 It’s just like,
0:12:02 I’d rather pay him to do it
0:12:03 than do it myself.
0:12:04 Okay.
0:12:05 And so first grade teacher,
0:12:06 thank you card,
0:12:08 ballet teacher,
0:12:09 school bus driver.
0:12:09 Okay.
0:12:11 So now my thinking is,
0:12:12 well,
0:12:13 once you have this template,
0:12:13 okay,
0:12:16 I’m going to swap out the clip art
0:12:17 or swap out the graphic
0:12:18 and the rest of it
0:12:19 is kind of the same.
0:12:20 So it makes this product
0:12:21 creation process.
0:12:22 Once you have that base template
0:12:23 really,
0:12:24 really fast,
0:12:25 where the,
0:12:26 maybe where the next challenge
0:12:27 comes in
0:12:29 is in the shotgun approach
0:12:30 or this listing approach
0:12:31 to put all this stuff
0:12:33 up on Etsy
0:12:34 because they’re going to charge you
0:12:35 their 20 cent fee.
0:12:35 not a ton,
0:12:36 but it does add up
0:12:37 if you’re really trying
0:12:39 to upload a hundred products,
0:12:40 a thousand products.
0:12:40 Like what was the,
0:12:42 the volume of products
0:12:43 that you had to put up there
0:12:44 to start seeing sales?
0:12:45 I was putting up
0:12:47 about 20 to 30 products per week.
0:12:48 I actually got my first sale
0:12:49 on day three.
0:12:51 And so for those who don’t know,
0:12:52 I actually documented
0:12:52 this whole process
0:12:54 like day one to 116.
0:12:55 I took a video
0:12:56 almost every single day,
0:12:57 kind of just sharing live updates.
0:12:59 I was sharing screenshots
0:12:59 of my shop.
0:13:00 And on day three,
0:13:01 I had my first sale,
0:13:02 which was great.
0:13:02 Wow.
0:13:03 I think I probably only had
0:13:04 five or six,
0:13:06 products up at that point,
0:13:08 but I was adding like 20 to 30 a week
0:13:09 during this whole process.
0:13:10 Yeah.
0:13:11 And that’s cool
0:13:11 because,
0:13:12 because there’s not a lot
0:13:13 of social proof on the channel.
0:13:13 Yeah.
0:13:14 Where it’s like,
0:13:16 it shows zero sales,
0:13:16 zero reviews.
0:13:17 You’re like,
0:13:18 I’m taking a chance
0:13:18 on this guy.
0:13:19 Yeah.
0:13:19 That’s the beauty
0:13:20 of the side hustle though,
0:13:22 is you don’t need an audience.
0:13:23 You don’t need an email list.
0:13:25 You don’t need really anything.
0:13:26 Like if you understand
0:13:27 keyword research and SEO,
0:13:29 that is the most important skill.
0:13:30 You can be a five
0:13:31 out of 10 graphic designer.
0:13:32 A lot of people think
0:13:33 they have to be like this
0:13:34 graphic design wizard
0:13:35 in order to sell this stuff.
0:13:36 You can be a five
0:13:37 out of 10 graphic designer.
0:13:38 As long as you understand
0:13:39 keyword research and SEO
0:13:41 and you go after those,
0:13:42 the riches in the niches
0:13:43 and you go after those
0:13:44 kind of longer tail,
0:13:45 less targeted keywords,
0:13:46 people are going to buy your stuff.
0:13:47 Like I’m,
0:13:49 I’m still not a great graphic designer.
0:13:49 Maybe,
0:13:50 maybe a six or seven,
0:13:51 seven on a great day,
0:13:53 but I’m not the best graphic designer.
0:13:54 I’m just really good
0:13:55 at keyword research and SEO.
0:13:56 So if there’s someone looking
0:13:58 for a dinosaur themed
0:14:00 thank you card for like boys,
0:14:02 like a boy themed,
0:14:03 dinosaur themed thank you card,
0:14:04 like,
0:14:05 and I see that I might not
0:14:06 be the best designer,
0:14:07 but if I’m one of the only
0:14:09 few people selling that thing,
0:14:10 the people who are typing
0:14:11 that into the search bar
0:14:12 are going to come find me.
0:14:13 And the cool thing
0:14:14 about these keyword research tools,
0:14:16 let’s go back to E-Rank,
0:14:16 for example.
0:14:18 If I type in thank you card,
0:14:19 E-Rank is going to spit out
0:14:21 all of the things
0:14:21 that people are typing in,
0:14:23 all of the different variations.
0:14:24 So it’s not just me guessing
0:14:25 using your examples from earlier.
0:14:26 It’s not me guessing
0:14:27 ballet teacher,
0:14:27 school bus driver,
0:14:28 gym coach,
0:14:30 like E-Rank will actually tell me
0:14:32 there’s 116 people every month
0:14:33 searching for gym coach.
0:14:34 Thank you card.
0:14:36 There’s like 187 people
0:14:37 searching for a ballet.
0:14:38 There’s 450 people
0:14:39 searching for nurse.
0:14:40 Thank you card.
0:14:42 Like it’ll actually give me the data
0:14:43 and I’m a very data
0:14:44 driven decision maker.
0:14:46 I don’t like to just make things
0:14:46 willy nilly,
0:14:47 which was a mistake I made
0:14:48 when I first started
0:14:49 the side hustle back in 2018.
0:14:51 More with Cody in just a moment,
0:14:52 including the minimum
0:14:53 search volume
0:14:54 that he might target
0:14:55 a product for,
0:14:56 the power of templates
0:14:57 for both products
0:14:58 and Etsy listings,
0:15:00 and the conversion rate
0:15:00 you need to hit
0:15:01 before you ever spend
0:15:03 a dollar on Etsy ads.
0:15:04 All that and more
0:15:05 coming up right after this.
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0:17:20 Hiring
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0:17:22 is all you need.
0:17:24 Is there a minimum
0:17:24 search volume
0:17:26 that’s too low
0:17:27 to bother with?
0:17:28 I usually don’t touch
0:17:29 anything under 50
0:17:30 and some people
0:17:31 think that’s crazy.
0:17:32 Some people,
0:17:33 some other Etsy
0:17:34 quote-unquote gurus
0:17:35 don’t touch things
0:17:36 that are under like 200.
0:17:37 But for me,
0:17:37 I’m like,
0:17:38 there’s 50 people
0:17:39 searching for this a month
0:17:40 and there’s zero competition.
0:17:41 Yeah.
0:17:42 And I can scoop up
0:17:43 say even 20% of them,
0:17:45 10 people buy my $5 thing.
0:17:45 Yeah.
0:17:46 I like to think of these
0:17:47 each as like a little
0:17:48 mini passive income machine.
0:17:50 Like that’s 50 extra dollars
0:17:50 per month
0:17:51 and that 50 adds up.
0:17:52 Like if you can
0:17:53 get an army
0:17:54 of these $50
0:17:56 per month products,
0:17:56 even if they don’t have
0:17:57 a lot of search volume,
0:17:58 you get 20 of those going,
0:18:00 that’s $1,000 per month
0:18:01 and mostly passive income.
0:18:01 Yeah.
0:18:03 It goes back to the beginning
0:18:03 of, you know,
0:18:04 planting these little
0:18:05 digital money seeds.
0:18:06 It costs you
0:18:08 a little bit of time
0:18:08 and 20 cents
0:18:09 to create this thing.
0:18:11 And now it’s out there
0:18:12 in the world
0:18:13 and can earn
0:18:14 passive income for you.
0:18:15 I think that’s,
0:18:16 I think that’s really exciting.
0:18:18 Now the deliverable file
0:18:18 itself,
0:18:19 this is a PDF.
0:18:20 This is like
0:18:22 a link to a Canva
0:18:23 template.
0:18:24 I know I don’t want to get
0:18:24 too into weeds,
0:18:25 but like mechanically,
0:18:26 what does that look like?
0:18:26 Yeah.
0:18:27 So it’ll be a PDF
0:18:29 and for a,
0:18:30 I’ll call it done for you
0:18:30 printable,
0:18:31 one that’s not editable.
0:18:33 It would just be a PDF file.
0:18:34 So if you were buying
0:18:35 say a checklist
0:18:35 or a planner from me,
0:18:36 you just might get
0:18:37 the checklist or planner
0:18:39 delivered to your
0:18:40 Etsy inbox
0:18:41 and then you download it
0:18:42 and then you use it
0:18:43 for an editable file.
0:18:44 You’ll have a PDF
0:18:45 and then you’ll have
0:18:47 a hyperlink on that PDF.
0:18:47 Like it could be
0:18:48 to Dropbox
0:18:49 or Google Drive
0:18:50 or to Canva itself.
0:18:52 if it’s an editable thing,
0:18:52 like there’s,
0:18:53 you know,
0:18:54 editable files via Canva.
0:18:55 There’s another program
0:18:56 called Cordial
0:18:57 and Template.
0:18:57 There’s a bunch of these
0:18:59 like editable design softwares
0:19:01 and then on the deliverable PDF,
0:19:03 you just have like a URL.
0:19:03 So they click,
0:19:04 you know,
0:19:04 edit my template
0:19:05 and then they can go
0:19:06 and edit it.
0:19:07 Got it.
0:19:07 That helps.
0:19:07 But,
0:19:08 and then this is all automated
0:19:10 when somebody hits
0:19:11 the buy button,
0:19:13 then Etsy sends them
0:19:14 this thing that you have
0:19:14 set up on the backend.
0:19:16 Everything is automated.
0:19:16 I like to say
0:19:19 it’s a 95% passive income
0:19:19 side hustle
0:19:22 because about 1 in 20 people
0:19:22 will message me
0:19:24 asking for clarification
0:19:25 with a purchase.
0:19:25 They’re like,
0:19:25 oh,
0:19:26 I can’t access my template
0:19:28 or this or that.
0:19:29 So about,
0:19:29 again,
0:19:30 1 in 20.
0:19:31 So 5% of the time
0:19:32 I’ll have someone message me
0:19:34 and ask for some specific advice,
0:19:35 which I’ve built
0:19:36 like a bunch of
0:19:36 what they’re called
0:19:38 quick replies in Etsy.
0:19:40 So I can just basically like click,
0:19:41 here’s how to download
0:19:42 your editable file
0:19:43 and then I don’t have to go
0:19:44 type it out every single time.
0:19:44 Yeah,
0:19:46 frequently asked questions.
0:19:47 A text expander
0:19:47 or a keyboard short.
0:19:48 Yeah,
0:19:49 same exact thing.
0:19:49 Yeah.
0:19:50 I was going to ask
0:19:51 if you’re leveraging AI
0:19:53 on the product creation side
0:19:54 at all.
0:19:54 Yes,
0:19:56 there’s some element here
0:19:57 on the ideation,
0:20:00 but then to make the thing itself,
0:20:01 is there any sort of like,
0:20:02 you know,
0:20:03 prompting chat GPT
0:20:04 or even Canva
0:20:05 to be like,
0:20:06 I’m looking for
0:20:07 a printable file
0:20:08 that does this,
0:20:09 this and this.
0:20:10 I have done some experimenting,
0:20:11 but honestly,
0:20:12 for the printables
0:20:12 that I’m creating,
0:20:13 again,
0:20:13 most of these are
0:20:15 simple type printables
0:20:16 that I can then pump out
0:20:17 a million different variations
0:20:19 based on different niches
0:20:20 and holidays
0:20:20 and trends
0:20:21 and things like that.
0:20:22 I do not use AI
0:20:23 to create printables.
0:20:24 Okay.
0:20:25 Another reason I do this
0:20:26 is because you do have
0:20:27 to disclose
0:20:28 in your Etsy listing,
0:20:29 like this is AI generated.
0:20:31 There’s no hard data on this,
0:20:33 but my gut just tells me
0:20:34 like they’re probably
0:20:36 slightly lowering
0:20:38 the like SEO juice,
0:20:38 the algorithm
0:20:40 for these types of printables.
0:20:41 If someone’s just putting up
0:20:42 like a thousand printables
0:20:42 in a day
0:20:43 and all of them
0:20:44 you have checked off,
0:20:45 like this was made by AI,
0:20:47 just something tells me
0:20:47 that Etsy’s probably
0:20:49 weighting that a little bit
0:20:49 less than the algorithm.
0:20:49 Again,
0:20:50 I don’t have hard data
0:20:51 on this.
0:20:51 It’s just,
0:20:53 that’s just my gut feeling.
0:20:53 Yeah.
0:20:54 There’s something about
0:20:56 the Etsy community too,
0:20:57 where it started
0:20:59 as a handmade marketplace,
0:21:00 people doing business
0:21:00 with people.
0:21:01 So I wouldn’t be surprised
0:21:02 if you were correct
0:21:03 on that.
0:21:04 We’re going to diminish
0:21:05 those in the listings
0:21:06 just a little bit.
0:21:07 Just a little bit.
0:21:07 Okay.
0:21:08 So we talked about
0:21:09 product creation.
0:21:09 We talked about
0:21:11 the power of templates
0:21:12 once the listing
0:21:13 is live
0:21:14 or maybe any
0:21:15 listing best practices.
0:21:16 Obviously we want to put
0:21:17 the primary keyword
0:21:18 in the title of the listing,
0:21:19 the description of the listing.
0:21:20 Anything else that you found
0:21:22 to speed up
0:21:23 that process
0:21:24 or product images
0:21:24 that you found
0:21:25 to work well?
0:21:26 Pricing points
0:21:27 that help?
0:21:28 Do you have to price low
0:21:29 when your shop
0:21:30 doesn’t have any reviews?
0:21:31 Like what have you found here?
0:21:32 So I’ll start with templates
0:21:33 because we did talk
0:21:34 about product templates.
0:21:35 Like you just take
0:21:35 the base template,
0:21:37 let’s use a thank you card
0:21:37 for example,
0:21:39 and then you can go create
0:21:40 a million different variations
0:21:41 of thank you card.
0:21:42 We mentioned that before.
0:21:43 What I didn’t mention though
0:21:44 is that you can actually
0:21:46 have the entire Etsy listing
0:21:47 as a quote unquote template.
0:21:49 So if I’m going to create,
0:21:50 let’s say I already have
0:21:52 a Father’s Day card
0:21:53 in my Etsy shop
0:21:54 and I want to create
0:21:55 a Mother’s Day card.
0:21:56 I can literally
0:21:57 duplicate the listing
0:21:58 and then I just go
0:21:59 back into Canva.
0:22:00 I just like change
0:22:01 the listing images.
0:22:02 I change the actual
0:22:02 product itself.
0:22:04 I change some of the tags.
0:22:05 I slightly altered
0:22:06 the description,
0:22:07 but I can actually use
0:22:09 a lot of the same features
0:22:10 from that initial listing.
0:22:11 So for me now,
0:22:13 if I were to actually do that
0:22:14 using this real example,
0:22:15 like if I were to have
0:22:16 a Father’s Day card
0:22:16 that I want to make
0:22:17 into a Mother’s Day card,
0:22:18 it would probably take me
0:22:20 like 15 to 20 minutes total.
0:22:21 I might on the actual design
0:22:22 change the colors
0:22:23 from blue to pink
0:22:24 and I’m obviously
0:22:24 going to change
0:22:26 the word father to mother
0:22:27 and some other changes
0:22:28 like the tags.
0:22:29 You can use 13 tags
0:22:30 per Etsy listing.
0:22:31 I would change some of those
0:22:32 to be specific
0:22:33 to the holiday,
0:22:35 but using the entirety
0:22:36 of your Etsy listing
0:22:37 as a template
0:22:38 is something not many people do.
0:22:39 Like even the listing images
0:22:40 you were just asking about,
0:22:41 Nick.
0:22:41 Yeah.
0:22:43 I have eight listing images
0:22:44 that I’m using
0:22:44 for all my products
0:22:46 and it’s just drag and drop.
0:22:47 Like I’m using Canva templates
0:22:48 using like the frames feature.
0:22:49 And so when I create
0:22:51 the new product,
0:22:52 I’m just like dragging
0:22:52 and dropping back
0:22:53 into those same templates.
0:22:54 So I’m not having to
0:22:55 recreate the wheel
0:22:56 every single time
0:22:57 with my listing images.
0:22:59 In terms of what works,
0:23:01 clarity is key.
0:23:03 So something I see
0:23:05 new sellers do so often
0:23:06 is it’s either their title
0:23:07 or their description
0:23:08 or their listing images,
0:23:10 especially that main listing image.
0:23:11 I like to think of that
0:23:12 as the gatekeeper to sales
0:23:14 because like if someone’s
0:23:15 scrolling through Etsy,
0:23:16 let’s say they type in
0:23:17 Mother’s Day card
0:23:19 and your listing image
0:23:20 doesn’t attract them
0:23:21 at the start.
0:23:22 Even if you have
0:23:23 the best product in the world
0:23:24 with the best title
0:23:25 and the best description
0:23:26 and you have an ugly
0:23:27 main listing image,
0:23:28 you’re not going to make the sale.
0:23:29 It’s the gatekeeper.
0:23:29 It’s kind of like
0:23:30 a thumbnail on YouTube.
0:23:31 Like you need a good thumbnail
0:23:33 to get people attracted
0:23:35 in clicking into your video.
0:23:35 Now once they get in,
0:23:36 there’s a whole bunch
0:23:37 of other different things
0:23:38 that you can do
0:23:39 to make them convert.
0:23:40 But if they don’t get in
0:23:41 in the first place,
0:23:42 then you’re screwed.
0:23:43 So I like to say
0:23:44 that clarity is key.
0:23:46 Like you want your title
0:23:47 to be exactly,
0:23:48 exactly what the person
0:23:49 is going to get.
0:23:50 You want that main listing image
0:23:51 to be very clear
0:23:52 on what that person
0:23:53 is going to get.
0:23:54 A concrete example
0:23:55 from our community,
0:23:56 someone posted
0:23:56 a couple weeks ago,
0:23:56 they’re like,
0:23:58 hey, this is my first listing
0:23:59 and they were making
0:24:00 holiday gift tags.
0:24:01 I think it was gift tags
0:24:02 for Valentine’s Day.
0:24:03 Okay.
0:24:04 And for their main listing image,
0:24:06 it was like an 8 by 5,
0:24:07 8 by 5.
0:24:09 It was an 8.5 by 11,
0:24:10 just like a letter size
0:24:11 sheet of paper
0:24:12 with all of the gift tags on it.
0:24:14 Like it was very unclear
0:24:15 what the actual product
0:24:16 that the end user
0:24:17 would be getting.
0:24:19 So we in the community
0:24:20 were like,
0:24:20 oh, actually,
0:24:21 it would probably make
0:24:22 a lot more sense
0:24:23 if you were to mock this up
0:24:24 and like show this gift tag
0:24:26 on an actual Valentine’s gift
0:24:26 and someone is,
0:24:27 it’s a lot more clear
0:24:29 what the end user is buying.
0:24:31 So clarity is key
0:24:32 and far too many people
0:24:33 make the mistake
0:24:33 of just like having
0:24:34 this like abstract,
0:24:35 maybe they’re trying
0:24:36 to like keyword stuff
0:24:36 in the title
0:24:37 or the description
0:24:39 or their main listing image
0:24:39 just looks weird.
0:24:41 There’s too much information on it
0:24:42 and it’s kind of difficult
0:24:43 to tell what the person
0:24:43 is getting.
0:24:44 The less confusion
0:24:45 that your buyers
0:24:46 are going to have
0:24:47 when they see your product
0:24:48 show up in search,
0:24:50 the more likely
0:24:51 they’re going to buy.
0:24:52 And because people
0:24:54 are still buying convenience,
0:24:55 you’re not worried about,
0:24:56 well, just,
0:24:56 you know,
0:24:57 if it’s a simple printable
0:24:58 and I’m just,
0:24:59 I just literally gave it away,
0:25:00 like there’s an image
0:25:00 of the thing,
0:25:02 not really worried about that
0:25:03 because it’s a different
0:25:04 buyer mindset
0:25:05 than the do-it-yourselfer.
0:25:06 So to be clear,
0:25:08 it’s not just a PNG
0:25:08 or a JPEG
0:25:10 of the finished product.
0:25:10 Like that’s not
0:25:11 the main listing image.
0:25:12 It’s usually mocked up.
0:25:13 Maybe there’s like a nice
0:25:14 like wood background
0:25:14 or something like that
0:25:15 with shadows.
0:25:16 You’re still showing
0:25:17 exactly what the printable is
0:25:19 or what the digital product is.
0:25:19 You’re not,
0:25:20 but you’re not just
0:25:21 giving it away.
0:25:21 You’re not just like
0:25:23 having the PDF
0:25:25 as the front runner,
0:25:25 the showcase
0:25:27 of what the product is
0:25:27 because to your point,
0:25:28 you don’t want people
0:25:29 just going in,
0:25:30 screenshotting it
0:25:31 and then printing it out
0:25:31 and using it.
0:25:32 That’s not what
0:25:33 I’m recommending at all.
0:25:33 Okay.
0:25:35 What do you recommend?
0:25:36 I mean,
0:25:36 how do you show it
0:25:37 without showing it?
0:25:37 Okay.
0:25:38 Let me try to think
0:25:39 of a good example.
0:25:40 So let’s just use,
0:25:41 I’m using thank you cards
0:25:42 a lot in Mother’s Day
0:25:42 and Father’s Day cards.
0:25:44 Let’s use a Mother’s Day card.
0:25:45 So a Mother’s Day card,
0:25:46 I might have the
0:25:47 five by seven card
0:25:48 like at an angle
0:25:50 kind of with like
0:25:50 a shadow effect on it
0:25:51 to make it pop
0:25:53 on like a wooden background
0:25:54 or maybe on a table
0:25:55 with flowers in the corner.
0:25:57 And so it’s not just,
0:25:59 it’s not just the piece of paper.
0:26:00 Like it’s a whole mock-up.
0:26:00 Sure, sure.
0:26:02 So like if someone were to go in
0:26:03 and try to like screenshot
0:26:04 at it like and,
0:26:04 you know,
0:26:05 try to crop it,
0:26:06 it’s not going to look great.
0:26:08 It’s not going to look great.
0:26:09 They’re just going to pay
0:26:10 the four or five bucks
0:26:11 for the finished product.
0:26:12 So that’s what I mean.
0:26:12 Like you are showing
0:26:13 the entire printable
0:26:15 or the entire digital product,
0:26:16 but it’s not in a way
0:26:17 where someone can just
0:26:18 like screenshot it
0:26:19 or download it
0:26:19 and use it immediately.
0:26:22 Do you use Etsy ads at all?
0:26:23 Are you relying 100%
0:26:25 on just the SEO
0:26:26 of these listings
0:26:27 or the search volume
0:26:27 that’s there?
0:26:29 For this Etsy challenge,
0:26:31 I tried not to use ads
0:26:33 for the beginning part
0:26:33 when I made it
0:26:35 to $1,000 per month.
0:26:36 But after that,
0:26:36 I was like,
0:26:37 okay, no holds barred.
0:26:38 Let’s see how much
0:26:39 I can pump up
0:26:40 this revenue with ads.
0:26:41 And it was actually
0:26:42 like the week before Christmas
0:26:44 and I started pumping out
0:26:44 my ad spend
0:26:46 like $100 a day
0:26:47 just to see what I could do
0:26:48 because Christmas is huge.
0:26:49 Holidays are huge on Etsy.
0:26:51 And so with this new shop,
0:26:53 I spent just over $900
0:26:56 in 10 days on ads.
0:26:59 And that ended up
0:27:00 bringing in an extra
0:27:01 $2,200 in revenue.
0:27:03 So like $1,300 in profit
0:27:04 if I can do live math
0:27:05 on a podcast.
0:27:07 So yeah, I do use ads.
0:27:09 I use ads in my main shop.
0:27:10 I was trying to use ads
0:27:11 very sparingly
0:27:12 in this new shop
0:27:12 until I hit that goal
0:27:14 because I didn’t want people
0:27:15 to be like,
0:27:15 well, the only reason
0:27:15 you got there
0:27:16 was because of ads.
0:27:17 I was like, no,
0:27:18 I’m getting here
0:27:19 because of keyword research
0:27:19 and SEO.
0:27:20 But then I turned
0:27:22 the ads dial up to 10.
0:27:23 If ads work,
0:27:24 I’ll trade $900
0:27:25 for $2,200 all day.
0:27:26 Yes, ads do work
0:27:27 if done correctly.
0:27:28 But I also didn’t want
0:27:29 to teach people
0:27:29 the wrong lessons.
0:27:30 If people think
0:27:30 that they can just
0:27:32 solve problems with ads,
0:27:33 what I like to say
0:27:34 is ads buy you eyeballs.
0:27:35 So if you already
0:27:35 have a product
0:27:36 that’s converting,
0:27:37 like people are already
0:27:38 buying your product
0:27:38 here and there,
0:27:40 sure, you can throw
0:27:41 some ad money at it,
0:27:42 see if it works.
0:27:43 But if you just have
0:27:44 a shop full of stuff
0:27:45 that’s not selling
0:27:46 and you’re paying for ads,
0:27:47 all you’re doing
0:27:48 is buying more eyeballs
0:27:49 that are probably
0:27:50 not going to buy the thing
0:27:51 because it doesn’t have
0:27:52 any proof of conversion.
0:27:53 So like I don’t want
0:27:54 people to think
0:27:55 or get the idea
0:27:56 that just spending money
0:27:57 on ads is going
0:27:58 to solve their problems
0:27:59 and all of a sudden
0:27:59 this side hustle
0:28:00 that’s bringing in zero
0:28:01 for them is going
0:28:02 to be $1,000 per month
0:28:02 overnight.
0:28:03 Like you have to do
0:28:04 the hard work
0:28:05 of the keyword research
0:28:06 and the SEO
0:28:07 and figuring out
0:28:07 what buyers
0:28:08 are searching for.
0:28:09 Then once you figure
0:28:09 that out,
0:28:10 then you can start
0:28:11 experimenting with ads.
0:28:12 Etsy gives you data
0:28:13 on you had
0:28:15 a thousand views
0:28:16 on this product
0:28:18 and 50 people bought
0:28:19 so you had a 5% conversion.
0:28:20 Like what’s,
0:28:21 do you get any
0:28:21 of those metrics
0:28:22 or what’s good
0:28:22 or what’s a good benchmark?
0:28:23 Yeah, Etsy does
0:28:24 give you those metrics.
0:28:25 I like to be anywhere
0:28:27 between 3% and 5%
0:28:28 conversion rate
0:28:28 on visitors.
0:28:30 So I was actually,
0:28:31 when I was publicly
0:28:31 documenting this,
0:28:32 I was like,
0:28:32 okay, I’m getting
0:28:34 100 visits a day.
0:28:35 Hopefully that means
0:28:37 three to five sales.
0:28:37 Yeah.
0:28:38 And it actually did end up
0:28:39 being around that.
0:28:41 So basically to hit my goal
0:28:42 of $1,000 per month,
0:28:43 I needed to get
0:28:44 somewhere between
0:28:47 like 175 and 200 visits a day.
0:28:47 And so I’m like
0:28:48 publicly tracking
0:28:49 the first day
0:28:49 is like, you know,
0:28:50 12 visits.
0:28:52 The end of the second week
0:28:53 is like 25 visits.
0:28:53 But yeah,
0:28:54 that’s a good benchmark
0:28:55 to get back to your question.
0:28:57 Like 3% to 5%
0:28:57 conversion rate is awesome.
0:28:58 But even then,
0:28:59 to be able to put something out
0:29:00 onto the internet
0:29:02 and get views,
0:29:03 even if it’s just 10,
0:29:04 12, 20,
0:29:04 you know,
0:29:05 the first couple of days.
0:29:05 Yeah.
0:29:06 Compare that to starting
0:29:07 a brand new blog
0:29:08 and shouting it to the void
0:29:09 of the internet.
0:29:10 Google’s not going to rank
0:29:11 your brand new site
0:29:12 right out of the gate.
0:29:13 I think it’s an important
0:29:14 contrast to draw.
0:29:15 You know,
0:29:16 some of the other Etsy sellers
0:29:17 that we’ve talked to
0:29:19 have been trying to collect
0:29:20 emails from their shop.
0:29:21 Oh, get a free bonus template
0:29:22 when you enter your email here.
0:29:23 And they’re trying to like
0:29:25 wean themselves off
0:29:25 or maybe,
0:29:26 you know,
0:29:27 build up their own
0:29:27 traffic source
0:29:29 to their own self-hosted
0:29:30 storefront
0:29:31 or their own Shopify store
0:29:32 for digital products.
0:29:33 You doing any of that
0:29:34 or is it just like,
0:29:35 I just want to take
0:29:35 what this marketplace
0:29:36 is going to give me?
0:29:37 Did this new shop?
0:29:38 No.
0:29:40 I really wanted to just focus
0:29:42 on Etsy generated traffic.
0:29:42 So I didn’t do
0:29:43 the email list stuff.
0:29:45 I didn’t really lean into ads.
0:29:47 I didn’t do social media for it.
0:29:48 For my like main business,
0:29:49 Goal City Ventures,
0:29:49 absolutely.
0:29:51 Like we’re collecting
0:29:51 email addresses,
0:29:52 using printables
0:29:53 as lead magnets,
0:29:54 which is something
0:29:54 I was going to talk about
0:29:55 later today.
0:29:56 But yeah,
0:29:56 in my main business,
0:29:57 I’m all for it.
0:29:58 But the reason I started
0:29:59 this new shop was like,
0:30:00 I don’t want people
0:30:01 to think they need
0:30:01 all that stuff
0:30:02 because you don’t.
0:30:03 You really don’t.
0:30:04 You just need
0:30:04 the keyword research
0:30:05 and SEO.
0:30:06 But if you do want
0:30:07 to scale this
0:30:08 and build a bigger
0:30:08 business out of it,
0:30:10 definitely go for it.
0:30:12 Like there are tons of ways.
0:30:13 And I listened to those
0:30:14 other episodes you had
0:30:14 with Debbie and Becky.
0:30:16 There are great ways
0:30:16 to get people
0:30:17 on your email list,
0:30:18 whether that’s with a freebie
0:30:19 or like a bonus
0:30:19 or a bundle
0:30:20 or other ways.
0:30:21 And then you can,
0:30:22 obviously,
0:30:23 once they’re on your list,
0:30:24 you can then sell them
0:30:24 similar products
0:30:25 to what they’ve already bought.
0:30:27 But it’s not a necessity.
0:30:28 You don’t have to do that
0:30:29 to be successful on Etsy.
0:30:29 Yeah,
0:30:30 or work your way up
0:30:31 the value chain
0:30:32 while you bought this.
0:30:32 So the next thing
0:30:33 you might need.
0:30:33 Yeah,
0:30:34 exactly.
0:30:34 Lots of different
0:30:35 marketing things
0:30:36 you can play around
0:30:37 with once you get going.
0:30:39 There was a question
0:30:40 I wanted to ask.
0:30:40 To the extent
0:30:41 that it matters,
0:30:43 do you need to have
0:30:44 your shop niched down
0:30:44 like, you know,
0:30:45 the thank you card
0:30:45 Emporium
0:30:46 and that’s all we sell
0:30:47 or could it be
0:30:49 a little bit broader
0:30:50 or do you find
0:30:50 that that matters?
0:30:51 I find that it
0:30:52 doesn’t matter much.
0:30:53 Now, if you’re someone
0:30:54 who it doesn’t
0:30:55 make any sense,
0:30:55 like let’s say
0:30:56 you started a shop
0:30:57 for South Hustle Nation
0:30:58 and it was all
0:30:58 about South Hustles
0:30:59 but then all of a sudden
0:31:00 you started throwing
0:31:01 like wedding printables
0:31:01 in there.
0:31:03 That might just
0:31:03 make your audience
0:31:03 be like,
0:31:04 what the heck,
0:31:04 Nick,
0:31:05 what are you doing?
0:31:06 So if you already
0:31:07 have an established brand
0:31:08 and you want to be
0:31:08 like, you know,
0:31:09 the thank you card
0:31:10 guy or girl
0:31:11 or you want to be
0:31:11 like the personal
0:31:12 finance guy or girl,
0:31:13 then it might not
0:31:14 make sense to branch out
0:31:16 but for the average person
0:31:17 it’s totally fine
0:31:17 to have a whole
0:31:18 hodgepodge
0:31:19 different types
0:31:20 of printables in there
0:31:21 and Etsy actually has
0:31:21 what’s called
0:31:23 sections in your shop
0:31:24 so you can silo
0:31:25 different stuff.
0:31:25 You can be like,
0:31:25 oh, here’s my
0:31:26 thank you card section.
0:31:28 here is my planner section.
0:31:29 Here is my
0:31:31 editable template section
0:31:31 and so you can
0:31:33 silo them off like that
0:31:34 but just in terms
0:31:35 of buyer behavior,
0:31:36 most people aren’t
0:31:37 like searching
0:31:37 for a shop
0:31:38 and then browsing
0:31:38 the shop
0:31:39 and seeing like
0:31:40 what’s good in there.
0:31:41 Most people are
0:31:42 typing a product
0:31:42 into the search bar
0:31:44 seeing what shows up
0:31:45 on search results
0:31:46 and then clicking
0:31:46 buying that product
0:31:47 and then they might
0:31:48 not ever see you again.
0:31:50 So it doesn’t really matter
0:31:50 if you have a whole
0:31:51 bunch of different
0:31:51 stuff in there.
0:31:52 that’s fair.
0:31:53 That’s probably
0:31:53 consistent with my
0:31:54 own Etsy buying
0:31:55 behavior.
0:31:56 It’s, you know,
0:31:57 search and discovery
0:31:59 and I don’t know
0:31:59 if I’ve ever reordered
0:32:00 from the same shop
0:32:01 again.
0:32:01 It’s like,
0:32:02 they solved my problem
0:32:03 and now I’m gone.
0:32:03 What are you buying
0:32:04 on Etsy, Nick?
0:32:06 We have a cool map
0:32:08 downstairs that says,
0:32:08 you know,
0:32:09 Adventure Awaits.
0:32:10 It’s like this cool
0:32:11 like watercolor map
0:32:12 about other gifts
0:32:14 on there over the years
0:32:15 like maybe birthstone
0:32:16 jewelry stuff.
0:32:17 A few purchases,
0:32:19 not a prolific Etsy shopper
0:32:20 but I’ve spent some
0:32:21 time on there.
0:32:23 But I’m kind of inspired
0:32:25 to throw up
0:32:25 some of these templates.
0:32:26 You don’t have to clean up
0:32:27 some of the templates
0:32:29 that I’ve been using
0:32:30 but, you know,
0:32:31 there is a Side Hustle Nation
0:32:33 shop with a handful
0:32:35 of t-shirt designs up there
0:32:36 but I’ve failed
0:32:37 to prioritize it very well.
0:32:38 So I’m excited to
0:32:39 maybe take a crack
0:32:40 at it this year.
0:32:41 Why not?
0:32:42 Extra revenue stream.
0:32:43 And for someone like you,
0:32:44 we can talk about this
0:32:44 later or now
0:32:46 but anyone who’s an entrepreneur
0:32:47 or Side Hustler
0:32:48 having an Etsy shop
0:32:50 is kind of a different way
0:32:51 of advertising, right?
0:32:52 Instead of spending money
0:32:53 on say Facebook ads
0:32:54 or Google ads
0:32:54 or YouTube ads
0:32:55 like this is a way
0:32:56 you can get people
0:32:57 into your ecosystem.
0:32:58 Like let’s say you had
0:32:58 the Side Hustle shop
0:33:00 and someone downloads
0:33:01 your Side Hustle tracker
0:33:02 or, you know,
0:33:03 your big list
0:33:04 of Side Hustle ideas
0:33:05 they might not
0:33:06 have ever known you before
0:33:08 and you’re getting these people
0:33:09 not only are you getting paid
0:33:11 to acquire them as customers
0:33:12 like you’re not paying
0:33:12 like a Facebook ad
0:33:13 or a Google ad
0:33:14 or a YouTube ad
0:33:14 but you’re building
0:33:15 goodwill with them.
0:33:16 Like if you deliver
0:33:17 something of value
0:33:17 if you have like
0:33:18 this rock star
0:33:20 Side Hustle income tracker
0:33:21 that’s like five bucks
0:33:22 you got them
0:33:23 into your ecosystem
0:33:24 you figured out a way
0:33:24 to get them
0:33:25 on your email list
0:33:26 now you’ve already built
0:33:27 a good rapport with them
0:33:28 so now when you launch
0:33:29 you know
0:33:30 some kind of a Side Hustle course
0:33:30 or a membership
0:33:31 or some other
0:33:33 bigger digital products
0:33:33 like they’re already
0:33:34 like oh you know
0:33:35 this guy already delivered
0:33:36 so much value for me
0:33:37 with this little $5 printable
0:33:38 that he sold me
0:33:39 and so yeah
0:33:39 it’s like it’s like
0:33:40 a great entry point
0:33:41 into your business
0:33:42 with these printables
0:33:43 and Etsy is a great
0:33:43 search engine
0:33:44 to get people
0:33:45 into your ecosystem
0:33:46 who might have not
0:33:47 gotten there before.
0:33:48 Yeah the Side Hustle
0:33:49 business planning template
0:33:50 we came across
0:33:50 some people
0:33:51 who are doing
0:33:52 who are like doing this
0:33:52 for like kids
0:33:53 summer businesses
0:33:54 like here’s the
0:33:54 you know
0:33:55 we want to teach
0:33:56 our kids entrepreneurship
0:33:57 here’s the lemonade stand
0:33:58 you know business plan
0:33:59 template that they would buy
0:34:00 and like make their kids
0:34:01 fill out
0:34:01 it’s like
0:34:01 I love it
0:34:03 there’s probably a ton of these
0:34:04 we’ll plug these into
0:34:04 e-rank
0:34:05 and see what we can get
0:34:06 now at the time
0:34:08 that this episode
0:34:09 is airing
0:34:09 Gold City Ventures
0:34:10 is in the middle
0:34:12 of their semi-annual
0:34:14 e-printables course launch
0:34:15 so we can link up
0:34:16 your reference
0:34:17 to that
0:34:18 in the show notes
0:34:19 for this episode
0:34:21 at SideHustleNation.com
0:34:22 slash Cody
0:34:23 C-O-D-Y
0:34:24 and we’ll be
0:34:25 right back
0:34:26 with more with Cody
0:34:27 in just a minute
0:34:27 including
0:34:29 his business idea
0:34:30 donation
0:34:30 for Side Hustle
0:34:31 show listeners
0:34:32 right after this.
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0:34:35 Side Hustlers
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0:34:41 in college
0:34:42 but at a certain point
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0:36:45 All right, we’re back
0:36:46 with Cody Berman
0:36:47 from The Five Show
0:36:48 and Gold City Ventures
0:36:50 for round two
0:36:52 in this episode
0:36:53 Round two is
0:36:54 your business idea donation
0:36:55 This is something
0:36:56 you think listeners
0:36:57 could run with
0:36:57 This is something
0:36:58 that you might start
0:36:59 yourself
0:37:01 if you had more hours
0:37:01 in the day
0:37:02 What have you got
0:37:03 for us here?
0:37:04 I even have a name
0:37:05 for this business
0:37:06 for your listeners
0:37:06 Nick
0:37:07 I’m hoping
0:37:08 I’m trying to
0:37:08 scratch my own edge
0:37:09 here
0:37:09 I’m hoping
0:37:10 that someone
0:37:10 creates this
0:37:11 I don’t have
0:37:11 the time
0:37:12 I don’t have
0:37:12 the resources
0:37:13 I don’t have
0:37:13 the connection
0:37:14 It’s called
0:37:15 The Hub
0:37:16 and it is an
0:37:17 all-in-one
0:37:18 business service
0:37:19 for entrepreneurs
0:37:20 so this is
0:37:20 legal
0:37:21 accounting
0:37:22 a development team
0:37:23 marketing
0:37:24 HR
0:37:24 everything you could
0:37:25 possibly want
0:37:26 as an entrepreneur
0:37:27 all packaged into one
0:37:28 and I’m sure
0:37:29 you have felt
0:37:29 these pains
0:37:29 Nick
0:37:30 where you’re
0:37:30 looking for
0:37:31 say a new
0:37:31 accountant
0:37:32 or you’re
0:37:32 looking for
0:37:33 a legal team
0:37:33 it’s like
0:37:34 pulling teeth
0:37:34 I’m asking
0:37:35 all my
0:37:35 mastermind groups
0:37:36 I’m posting
0:37:36 in Facebook
0:37:37 groups
0:37:37 everyone’s giving
0:37:37 you different
0:37:38 recommendations
0:37:38 you don’t
0:37:39 know who’s
0:37:39 good
0:37:40 it’s so much
0:37:41 and as we’ve
0:37:41 scaled up
0:37:42 Gold City Ventures
0:37:42 in our company
0:37:43 there’s just
0:37:43 all these
0:37:44 different pieces
0:37:45 and all these
0:37:45 different places
0:37:46 if someone
0:37:46 were to
0:37:47 develop
0:37:48 the hub
0:37:49 we’d pay
0:37:50 I’m not even
0:37:50 joking
0:37:50 we’d pay
0:37:51 like $5,000
0:37:51 a month
0:37:51 for that
0:37:52 to get rid
0:37:52 of all
0:37:53 the other
0:37:53 individual
0:37:54 people
0:37:55 that are
0:37:56 tangentially
0:37:57 attached to
0:37:57 our business
0:37:58 just to have
0:37:58 this one
0:37:59 awesome
0:37:59 rockstar
0:38:00 team
0:38:00 in place
0:38:01 and obviously
0:38:01 there’d be
0:38:02 different tiers
0:38:02 maybe a new
0:38:03 entrepreneur
0:38:03 is paying
0:38:04 $100 a month
0:38:04 the more
0:38:05 developed
0:38:05 businesses
0:38:06 are paying
0:38:06 $10,000
0:38:07 plus a month
0:38:08 I don’t know
0:38:08 but I would
0:38:09 love for someone
0:38:09 to do this
0:38:10 because it
0:38:10 has been
0:38:11 so difficult
0:38:12 and so much
0:38:13 work for us
0:38:13 to find
0:38:14 those key
0:38:15 players
0:38:15 that again
0:38:16 we don’t
0:38:16 have the
0:38:16 expertise
0:38:17 like we’re
0:38:17 not developers
0:38:17 we’re not
0:38:18 legal
0:38:18 we’re not
0:38:18 accounting
0:38:19 we’re not
0:38:19 HR
0:38:20 but they’re
0:38:20 important people
0:38:21 they’re important
0:38:21 people that you
0:38:22 need to make
0:38:23 your business
0:38:24 succeed and to
0:38:24 be compliant
0:38:25 so I would
0:38:26 love if someone
0:38:27 took this idea
0:38:27 and ran with it
0:38:28 okay talk me
0:38:28 through this
0:38:29 so are we
0:38:30 thinking like
0:38:30 a directory
0:38:31 of sorts
0:38:32 of like here
0:38:32 are the top
0:38:33 legal professionals
0:38:34 that deal with
0:38:35 online business
0:38:35 e-commerce
0:38:36 here’s the top
0:38:37 accounting
0:38:38 professionals that
0:38:38 know this type
0:38:39 of business
0:38:39 like you know
0:38:40 Sam Parr
0:38:40 from
0:38:41 Sam’s List
0:38:41 right
0:38:42 My First Million
0:38:43 and Hustle
0:38:43 yes
0:38:44 yeah yeah
0:38:44 so he was
0:38:45 he was doing
0:38:45 something like
0:38:45 this for
0:38:46 accountants
0:38:46 right
0:38:47 yes
0:38:48 so not that
0:38:48 not that
0:38:49 what I want
0:38:49 is and this
0:38:50 is why it’s so
0:38:50 difficult
0:38:51 you need some
0:38:52 kind of attractive
0:38:53 reason for these
0:38:54 people to want
0:38:54 to work directly
0:38:54 with you
0:38:55 like if I’m
0:38:56 paying the
0:38:57 hundred dollars
0:38:57 a month
0:38:57 five thousand
0:38:58 dollars a month
0:38:58 whatever it is
0:38:59 whatever your
0:39:00 scale of business
0:39:00 is I would
0:39:01 want them to
0:39:02 just assign me
0:39:03 like here’s you
0:39:03 know here’s your
0:39:04 lawyer here’s your
0:39:04 accountant here’s
0:39:05 your dev person
0:39:06 and they’re just
0:39:07 kind of at your
0:39:07 beck and call
0:39:08 like if you need
0:39:09 a funnel completed
0:39:10 or you need like a
0:39:11 website thing
0:39:11 done you just
0:39:12 hit up the dev
0:39:13 guy that’s already
0:39:13 part of your
0:39:14 package and he
0:39:14 does it for you
0:39:15 or if you need a
0:39:16 legal contract you
0:39:16 have like a new
0:39:17 joint venture that
0:39:18 you’re doing you
0:39:18 hit up the legal
0:39:19 team of the the
0:39:20 hub subscription that
0:39:21 you’re already a
0:39:21 part of and they
0:39:22 take care of it so
0:39:23 not a directory
0:39:24 because I think
0:39:25 directories still
0:39:26 kind of you have
0:39:26 to go through the
0:39:27 hard work you have
0:39:28 to interview a
0:39:28 bunch of people you
0:39:30 have to pick one
0:39:30 get recommendations
0:39:31 that’s not what I
0:39:32 want I’ve been
0:39:33 there done that I
0:39:34 want them to just
0:39:35 like have really
0:39:37 high quality vetted
0:39:38 people that I can
0:39:39 trust that I can
0:39:40 just give them
0:39:41 these tasks that I
0:39:42 don’t want to do or
0:39:43 don’t know how to
0:39:44 do okay so I’m now
0:39:45 understanding it better
0:39:47 as a have like a
0:39:49 on-demand fractional
0:39:51 agency fractional
0:39:52 support for basically
0:39:53 fractional everything
0:39:55 fractional everything
0:39:56 okay it’s like it’s
0:39:57 not worth having
0:39:59 somebody on staff
0:39:59 full-time or even
0:40:00 part-time but like
0:40:01 there are needs that
0:40:03 come up exactly for
0:40:05 legal for technical
0:40:06 stuff and say just I
0:40:07 will you know I want
0:40:08 a resource in my
0:40:09 back pocket to to
0:40:10 go to do that and
0:40:11 not have to somebody
0:40:12 else does all the
0:40:13 vetting and I don’t
0:40:14 have to go out and
0:40:14 and ask friends for
0:40:16 recommendations on here
0:40:16 I just like have a
0:40:17 membership to this
0:40:18 thing and people are
0:40:19 standing by ready to
0:40:20 help me out that’s it
0:40:21 if someone did this
0:40:23 well I would pay and
0:40:23 I’m sure a lot of
0:40:24 other people would
0:40:25 pay I talked to a lot
0:40:25 of other entrepreneurs
0:40:26 who have the same
0:40:27 pain points people
0:40:28 would pay a lot of
0:40:29 money for this if it
0:40:29 was done well yeah
0:40:30 when I had the the
0:40:31 virtual assistant site
0:40:32 there were especially
0:40:33 in the overseas
0:40:35 companies in in India
0:40:36 and the Philippines
0:40:36 they would kind of
0:40:37 promise this like oh
0:40:38 you need web
0:40:38 development done you
0:40:40 need a funnel building
0:40:40 done you need
0:40:41 copywriting done like
0:40:42 hey look we’ve got it
0:40:43 all in-house we got the
0:40:43 experts to do this
0:40:44 design whatever you
0:40:45 need the question mark
0:40:46 is always the quality
0:40:48 component and so that’s
0:40:49 kind of the where the
0:40:50 vetting comes in like
0:40:53 well how you know
0:40:54 and the level of trust
0:40:55 you have to build to get
0:40:55 somebody to sign up
0:40:56 how tight is this legal
0:40:57 contract again
0:41:01 all right that’s the
0:41:02 hub the all-in-one
0:41:03 business hub for
0:41:04 entrepreneurs now you’ve
0:41:05 got that business idea
0:41:06 that’s your next side
0:41:07 hustle you can run with
0:41:08 that let’s go to round
0:41:10 three the triple threat
0:41:12 the first component of
0:41:13 this is a marketing
0:41:15 tactic it’s working
0:41:15 right now it’s not
0:41:17 have to be Etsy
0:41:18 related this could be
0:41:18 related to any of your
0:41:20 other businesses we
0:41:20 kind of touched on it
0:41:21 before but one that’s
0:41:22 working and it’s worked
0:41:24 for years is printables
0:41:25 or digital downloads as
0:41:26 lead magnets or low
0:41:28 ticket offers and we
0:41:29 discussed a little bit
0:41:30 using the side hustle
0:41:31 Etsy shop as an example
0:41:33 but it’s just such a
0:41:34 great way to get people
0:41:35 into your ecosystem it’s
0:41:37 almost like a trip wire
0:41:37 products I don’t really
0:41:38 like that term too much
0:41:39 because it sounds like
0:41:39 you’re tricking people
0:41:40 into buying something but
0:41:42 it’s just a great way to
0:41:43 get people exposure to
0:41:44 what you’ve got like what
0:41:45 you’ve got to offer and
0:41:46 if you can wow people out
0:41:47 the gate with something
0:41:48 either free like a lead
0:41:49 magnet or cheap like a
0:41:50 low ticket offer maybe
0:41:51 it’s literally seven bucks
0:41:53 or 17 bucks they’re
0:41:54 going to be so much more
0:41:56 prone to purchase whatever
0:41:57 other things you have to
0:41:58 sell whether it’s a course
0:41:59 or membership or services
0:42:00 or whatever one-on-one
0:42:01 coaching they’re going to
0:42:03 be so much more prone to
0:42:04 sign up if they already
0:42:05 know that you’re someone
0:42:06 who delivers value and
0:42:07 you’re able to sell these
0:42:09 on Etsy is that the
0:42:10 primary strategy or is
0:42:11 it just through your
0:42:13 website like where were
0:42:14 you finding eyeballs and
0:42:15 buyers for gold city
0:42:16 ventures it’s a whole
0:42:17 bunch of things so not so
0:42:19 much Etsy anymore but
0:42:21 especially I shouldn’t
0:42:22 say that we do have a lot
0:42:22 of people who come from
0:42:24 Etsy but like most people
0:42:24 who join our email list
0:42:26 are not from Etsy but so
0:42:27 we have like you know
0:42:28 affiliates who promote our
0:42:30 stuff we use SEO like we
0:42:31 have a huge blog and
0:42:33 YouTube channel and we’re
0:42:34 doing paid ads so like
0:42:35 there’s a whole bunch of
0:42:36 different ways that we’re
0:42:37 getting people to download
0:42:38 these lead magnets or buy
0:42:39 these low ticket products
0:42:41 but again it’s it’s
0:42:42 building that trust now
0:42:44 we did a really fun
0:42:46 episode with Pete Boyle
0:42:48 who has his one dollar
0:42:50 product challenge and his
0:42:51 argument was like yeah you
0:42:52 could build your email
0:42:54 list with you know a
0:42:55 bunch of free lead
0:42:56 magnets but the question
0:42:57 is are you are you
0:42:58 building a list of
0:42:59 subscribers you build in a
0:43:00 list of buyers and he’s
0:43:02 like that one dollar
0:43:04 barrier was enough to
0:43:06 really accelerate sales
0:43:07 of everything else that he
0:43:08 had to offer it’s like
0:43:08 obviously I’m not going to
0:43:10 make a living off of this
0:43:11 one dollar product but it
0:43:12 led to you know in his
0:43:14 case led to hire ticket
0:43:15 consulting business and
0:43:16 how it to hire ticket
0:43:17 digital product sales too
0:43:19 but just that little hurdle
0:43:20 that little bit of
0:43:21 commitment and we talked
0:43:22 about people who pay
0:43:23 pay attention and if you
0:43:24 can wow people you
0:43:26 deliver you know 10x or
0:43:27 100x the value for that
0:43:29 one dollar thing then all
0:43:30 of a sudden that level of
0:43:31 trust really skyrockets
0:43:33 absolutely all right that
0:43:35 is our marketing tactic
0:43:36 digital downloads as lead
0:43:38 magnets low ticket offers
0:43:39 figure out what you might
0:43:41 be able to create and
0:43:41 probably what Pete
0:43:42 recommended was working
0:43:43 backwards from your core
0:43:45 offer or you know peeling
0:43:47 out a piece of that that
0:43:49 solves some initial pain
0:43:50 point and like okay
0:43:50 what’s the natural
0:43:52 progression of somebody
0:43:53 going through this if
0:43:54 they ultimately are going
0:43:56 to need your your full
0:43:57 service what’s a logical
0:43:58 first step there the
0:43:59 next question here of the
0:44:01 triple threat is a new or
0:44:03 new to you tool that
0:44:03 you’re loving right now
0:44:05 we mentioned e-rank we
0:44:06 mentioned ever be we
0:44:07 mentioned canva we’ve
0:44:08 had a few different tools
0:44:09 here but what else have
0:44:10 you got for us something
0:44:12 I started using way too
0:44:13 late so I’ve been using
0:44:14 chat GPT for a while but
0:44:15 I hadn’t really
0:44:16 experimented with custom
0:44:18 GPTs I think I actually
0:44:19 heard you talk about this
0:44:20 on a podcast correct me
0:44:22 if I’m wrong Nick but now
0:44:24 I have custom GPTs for a
0:44:25 couple different use cases
0:44:26 where like I have a
0:44:28 custom GPT that can write
0:44:29 something in my voice if I
0:44:30 need like a blog post or
0:44:32 an email that just kind of
0:44:33 will take an information
0:44:35 that I give it kind of
0:44:35 spit it out and honestly
0:44:36 like reason with itself a
0:44:38 little bit and then spit
0:44:40 out final products and it
0:44:41 honestly doesn’t need too
0:44:42 much tweaking sometimes I
0:44:44 have another custom GPT for
0:44:45 generating and researching
0:44:47 Etsy product ideas I have
0:44:49 another custom GPT for
0:44:50 basically researching a
0:44:52 guest for my podcast the
0:44:52 financial independence show
0:44:54 and like kind of unearthing
0:44:55 some interesting questions
0:44:56 or things that they’ve
0:44:58 mentioned before and for
0:44:59 those wondering a custom
0:45:00 GPT is like if you’re on
0:45:01 chat GPT you know you just
0:45:03 type in like hey I’m
0:45:03 interviewing Nick Loper
0:45:04 today tell me some
0:45:05 interesting things about
0:45:07 him a custom GPT is
0:45:08 basically just a string of
0:45:09 queries that you have
0:45:10 saved so it’s like hey
0:45:11 you know search up Nick
0:45:13 Loper what are his like top
0:45:14 episodes what are some
0:45:16 interesting things that he
0:45:16 doesn’t talk about too
0:45:17 often and it will you can
0:45:19 add as many queries as you
0:45:20 want as many kind of
0:45:21 actions onto this string of
0:45:22 instructions that’s
0:45:24 basically a custom GPT and I
0:45:25 was way too late to this
0:45:26 game and they’re awesome
0:45:28 okay this is something you
0:45:30 like would save in the in
0:45:31 the sidebar of chat GPT
0:45:33 rather than having to punch
0:45:34 in those kind of priming
0:45:36 prompts each time yes you do
0:45:37 need the paid version the
0:45:39 $20 per month pro version of
0:45:40 chat GPT and then like in
0:45:41 your profile at the top right
0:45:43 it’ll unlock and you’ll see
0:45:44 like there’s I mean there’s a
0:45:44 bunch of options that
0:45:46 unlock with that tier but
0:45:47 custom GPT is one that was
0:45:48 one of them I don’t think
0:45:50 there’s any maximum number I
0:45:51 think you can create an
0:45:52 unlimited number of custom
0:45:54 GPTs for all different use
0:45:55 cases interesting I haven’t
0:45:57 played around with that I’ve
0:45:58 just gone through the you
0:45:59 know one specific use case
0:46:00 maybe I heard a guest
0:46:02 mention it then yeah the one
0:46:04 that I would probably need to
0:46:05 create is like take this
0:46:08 article and turn it into a
0:46:09 compelling YouTube script
0:46:10 that’s like kind of the
0:46:11 bottleneck in creating more
0:46:12 video content like we’ve
0:46:13 got this huge body of
0:46:15 library of content on the
0:46:16 site but it’s like how do we
0:46:17 translate some of that over
0:46:18 to video and do it in a way
0:46:20 that is native and natural to
0:46:21 YouTube and not just reading
0:46:22 reading a blog post I don’t
0:46:23 think that would necessarily
0:46:25 play very well yeah and so
0:46:26 you know a series of prompts
0:46:28 like you are Nick Loper from
0:46:29 side hustle nation and this
0:46:30 is your task do you
0:46:32 understand yes yes and like
0:46:34 okay here’s here’s the copy can
0:46:36 you turn this in you know don’t
0:46:37 include blah blah blah you know
0:46:38 it’s okay to use some of the
0:46:39 same phrasing but it’d have
0:46:40 to be word for word you
0:46:42 understand yes okay and go
0:46:43 there but like to have that
0:46:44 saved I could see how that
0:46:45 would be a time saver oh
0:46:47 yeah huge time saver all
0:46:50 right and last but not least
0:46:51 your favorite book from the
0:46:53 last 12 months one that I
0:46:55 didn’t think was gonna have
0:46:56 such a profound impact on
0:46:56 me because it was really
0:46:57 dense when I started reading
0:46:58 I was like oh my gosh this
0:47:00 is so boring it’s called
0:47:01 thinking fast and slow by
0:47:03 Daniel Kahneman and it’s all
0:47:06 about human psychology and why
0:47:08 people tend to make certain
0:47:09 decisions it’s like really
0:47:10 interesting if you’re a
0:47:12 marketer and just like kind of
0:47:13 like the gambling lottery
0:47:15 mentality like loss aversion
0:47:16 there’s a whole bunch of
0:47:17 really really good stuff in
0:47:18 there and stuff that we as
0:47:19 marketers can use to our
0:47:21 advantage interesting I have
0:47:22 heard of this book for a long
0:47:23 time it’s been out for a while
0:47:24 but have never cracked it
0:47:26 open so thinking fast and
0:47:28 slow it is dense it is dense
0:47:30 it’s not like a fun read but
0:47:31 there’s just like a lot of
0:47:32 info in there it’s it’s there’s
0:47:34 a lot of really good stuff yeah
0:47:35 you would layer this on with a
0:47:37 an influence by Robert
0:47:38 Cialdini type of thing how do
0:47:39 how do we tap into these
0:47:42 psychological benefits or
0:47:43 psychological triggers to
0:47:44 improve our business exactly
0:47:47 okay well very cool we’ll link
0:47:48 that up in the show notes as
0:47:50 well side hustle nation dot com
0:47:52 slash Cody you’ve got a million
0:47:53 different side hustles like
0:47:54 what’s what’s next for you what
0:47:55 are you focused on what what
0:47:57 kind of projects you got going
0:47:58 on more real estate builds
0:47:59 what’s new real estate been
0:48:01 slowing down on honestly our
0:48:03 core focus has been gold city
0:48:04 ventures and building that
0:48:06 out we have some exciting
0:48:07 stuff that I can’t announce
0:48:08 yet but just know that we
0:48:10 have some exciting projects in
0:48:12 the works constantly improving
0:48:13 building our community making
0:48:15 the content better and easier
0:48:16 to follow so yeah most of the
0:48:17 most of the new stuff for me
0:48:18 Nick is gold city ventures
0:48:20 which honestly if you were to
0:48:21 ask me this question years ago
0:48:23 when we first became friends I
0:48:25 probably would have named 10
0:48:26 news hot hustles I was going
0:48:27 to try I was doing way too
0:48:29 much yeah and honestly I think I
0:48:31 spread myself too thin so now I’ve
0:48:33 kind of re-narrowed my focus
0:48:35 into a couple core things that
0:48:36 I’m really good at and just
0:48:37 focusing all my time energy into
0:48:38 those so yeah doing more on
0:48:40 gold city ventures continuing the
0:48:41 podcast the financial
0:48:43 independent show and that’s the
0:48:44 main focus is for me right now
0:48:47 very good well we’ll link up all
0:48:48 of those resources included the
0:48:50 e-printables course at
0:48:52 side hustle nation dot com slash
0:48:54 Cody thank you for sharing your
0:48:56 insight this is again very
0:48:58 inspiring maybe hopefully get off
0:48:59 the sidelines and into the Etsy
0:49:01 game up a little bit myself big
0:49:03 thanks to our sponsors for
0:49:04 helping make this content free
0:49:05 for everyone you can hit up
0:49:07 side hustle nation dot com slash
0:49:09 deals for all the latest offers
0:49:10 from our sponsors in one place
0:49:12 thank you for supporting the
0:49:13 advertisers that support the show
0:49:15 that’s it for me thank you so
0:49:17 much for tuning in if you’re
0:49:18 finding value in the show the
0:49:19 greatest compliment is to share
0:49:21 it with a friend so help spread
0:49:22 the word fire off that text
0:49:24 message to somebody excited about
0:49:25 planting those little digital
0:49:27 money seeds building extra
0:49:29 income streams until next time
0:49:30 let’s go out there and make
0:49:31 something happen and I’ll catch
0:49:33 you in the next edition of the
0:49:34 side hustle show hustle on

0:00:06 The $1 product challenge, how my guest earned $4,000 in just 10 days without paid ads.
0:00:07 What’s up?
0:00:07 What’s up?
0:00:08 Nick Oloper here.
0:00:12 Welcome to the Side Hustle Show, a light on the theory, heavy on the tactics.
0:00:14 It’s an entrepreneurship podcast.
0:00:16 You can actually apply.
0:00:19 And you’ve been around online business for any length of time.
0:00:23 I can almost guarantee you’ve heard the phrase, the money is in the list.
0:00:29 And all the experts, myself included, extol the virtues of building your email list, right?
0:00:32 It’s the platform that you own and control.
0:00:37 You’re not at the whim of algorithm updates, social media changes.
0:00:41 But the question is, are you building an email list of buyers?
0:00:45 Subscribers are great, but you’re not buying groceries on subscribers alone.
0:00:50 My guest today has a unique list building and business building strategy that throws free
0:00:57 lead magnets out the window in favor of low-priced products starting at just $1 and has seen some
0:01:01 exciting results, including that $4,000 in just 10 days.
0:01:05 From growthmodels.co, Pete Boyle, welcome to the Side Hustle Show.
0:01:06 Thank you for having me.
0:01:07 It’s great to be here.
0:01:07 You bet.
0:01:08 I’m excited for this one.
0:01:12 I got to know, what’s the $1 product that you came up with?
0:01:12 How did this work?
0:01:16 Basically, I found myself in a position where I tried a bunch of things in business that
0:01:16 didn’t quite work out.
0:01:19 As is always the case, you know, you try some new things, it doesn’t always work.
0:01:23 And I was like, right, I need to get some good positive cash flow coming back in.
0:01:28 Went back, tried the usual lead magnet, get people in, tried to nurture them towards buying
0:01:31 from me somewhere down the line, a day or week, a month, whatever.
0:01:32 It didn’t work.
0:01:36 And so I was like, right, I need to actually get some customers coming in.
0:01:42 And so at that time, you know, ChatGPT was doing huge numbers in terms of the actual, you
0:01:43 know, daily usage.
0:01:46 And custom GPTs had just come out.
0:01:49 But most people weren’t really using custom GPTs.
0:01:50 They didn’t know how to do them.
0:01:54 So I sat down over a weekend and I thought, I’m going to figure out how I can create some
0:01:55 custom GPTs.
0:02:00 And much like the philosophy that’s now in the $1 product challenge, one of the things
0:02:05 that I wanted to do was create something that was easy for the end user to use.
0:02:08 Not like a big load of information, but a quick and easy solution.
0:02:12 And I created some custom GPTs that were around content marketing.
0:02:15 Because I spent a lot of my career doing content marketing for different brands.
0:02:21 And I said, look, these are four custom GPTs that will help you identify a great topic,
0:02:25 create great headline, do the brief that you need to send to a writer, and even help you
0:02:26 with the first draft.
0:02:29 Four of them, you can get all four for a dollar.
0:02:30 Oh, okay.
0:02:34 And then, yeah, it kind of spiraled from there because they were so easy to use and people
0:02:38 could basically go in, answer a few questions, and get the results that they needed.
0:02:42 And I kind of daisy-changed them along so you could take the output from one into the
0:02:45 next to get the next stage, and so on, and so on.
0:02:45 Okay.
0:02:50 So this is rather than starting from, like, coming up with your own series of prompts to
0:02:52 get the outcome that you want.
0:02:55 And it’s kind of like a done-for-you type of pre-setup thing.
0:02:56 Yeah, exactly.
0:03:02 So one of the issues that I see now with a lot of the AI influencers, for lack of a better
0:03:08 term, the lead magnets they’re using is like, here’s a thousand AI prompts that you can use.
0:03:12 And I look at it and I think, well, that’s great, but I only need five that are really
0:03:13 going to be useful for me.
0:03:18 So you’ve given me more work that I’m going to have to go through all 1,000 to find the
0:03:19 five that are useful for me.
0:03:20 Yeah, I’m sure these are all great, right?
0:03:22 But what’s most relevant?
0:03:22 Exactly.
0:03:25 And so I was just like, what if I do that work for you?
0:03:28 And I say, right, answer these five questions about your audience, what you want to create
0:03:32 content about, a couple of other sort of clarifying questions.
0:03:33 And this will just create the end thing.
0:03:36 Like answers that everybody would have.
0:03:36 Okay.
0:03:39 And that they would have to do anyway with a prompt, but I’ll take the prompting out of
0:03:41 the equation and you can just take it from there.
0:03:45 And this was right when custom GPTs first came in.
0:03:49 So there was a lot of buzz around them and, uh, yeah, sold all four of those for a dollar.
0:03:50 Wow.
0:03:50 Okay.
0:03:57 So maybe some upfront work for a low, a low ticket price, but then you don’t have a, you
0:03:59 have an email list, you have an audience to speak of at this point.
0:04:01 Like, how are you, how do you find buyers for this?
0:04:06 So I did have an audience at that point and I had my email list and.
0:04:11 But I didn’t use them to sell this to, I didn’t sell this to them.
0:04:11 Oh, okay.
0:04:16 Um, they weren’t really that interested in content marketing because I has an audience
0:04:18 of freelancers who wanted to know how to attract clients.
0:04:19 Okay.
0:04:19 Okay.
0:04:23 So there’s a bit of an overlap there, but they weren’t the exact ideal market.
0:04:26 What I wanted was I wanted people who were running content for larger brands.
0:04:29 So I had to go out and try and find them to get him to buy it.
0:04:30 How’d you find them?
0:04:36 So I did something that I’ve now called in spear phishing was, um, I found free communities.
0:04:40 Of, you know, content marketers who, you know, they’re all in there helping each other.
0:04:45 You can’t usually go into these places and promote because as soon as you go into a good
0:04:47 free community, the moderators are going to be like, no promotion.
0:04:48 Yeah, exactly.
0:04:52 So I went in and I, I created just value-based posts.
0:04:54 Like I said, you know, I’ve been doing this for quite a while.
0:04:57 So creating these posts wasn’t too hard.
0:05:00 Eventually I created another custom GPT that helps me create the posts.
0:05:05 So I had to take some of the work out of it, but, um, essentially I go in and I’d say,
0:05:08 look, these are the big problems that I see with content marketing.
0:05:09 This is the solution.
0:05:12 I’ve actually created some custom GPTs to help me do this.
0:05:13 No promo.
0:05:15 It was like a value-based post.
0:05:15 Here’s the problem.
0:05:16 Here’s the solution.
0:05:18 I’ve been working on this thing.
0:05:20 Just a little tease of what the offer is.
0:05:26 Then anybody who liked commented, I’d follow up with in direct messages.
0:05:28 So it wasn’t a cold DM then.
0:05:31 It wasn’t like a complete stranger saying, Hey, how’s it going?
0:05:34 I could go in and I could say, you enjoyed the post.
0:05:35 Thanks so much for engaging.
0:05:35 Yeah.
0:05:37 There was some level of, uh, interaction.
0:05:38 Exactly.
0:05:39 Exactly.
0:05:41 So it was not cold DMs, warm DMs, I guess.
0:05:44 Um, and it was, thanks so much.
0:05:45 Really enjoyed it.
0:05:45 Any questions?
0:05:50 And then if they were receptive, I would then segue that into a, you know, I put some
0:05:51 of those custom GPTs together.
0:05:53 I can give you access for a dollar.
0:05:56 And that was how I started to get the initial sales coming through.
0:06:01 It’s not a very scalable system because it still requires you to go in and talk to, you
0:06:04 know, in these groups, but, um, it can still work quite well.
0:06:11 And as long as you focus on value, the moderators so far have most of the time, like 80% of the
0:06:13 time, not had an issue with it.
0:06:13 Yeah.
0:06:15 And if you’re listening in, you may…
0:06:20 already be a part of some of these communities or it’s not you coming in completely, completely
0:06:26 cold, you kind of know the, you know, the culture of these different forums and communities
0:06:30 where, you know, what kind of content is going to fly or what kind of posts are going to fly
0:06:30 in there.
0:06:34 And if you can lead with this value first, the spear phishing is kind of interesting.
0:06:38 Like, I don’t need everybody in here, but you know, a handful of people who are interested
0:06:41 in it’s going to help me validate whether or not there’s any legs to this idea.
0:06:45 And that was the whole thing is, you know, as you say, you’re looking for those people
0:06:48 basically giving you a digital hand raise of saying, yeah, that’s cool.
0:06:51 I like this, you know, comment or likes, and then you can follow it with those.
0:06:56 And then, you know, that just made it so much easier when following up with those people and
0:06:58 just getting some kind of a result.
0:06:58 Okay.
0:07:02 So now technically, are they sending you Venmo?
0:07:03 Are they sending you PayPal?
0:07:06 Is there like a Stripe landing page?
0:07:09 Or like, how are you, if you’re figuring out like, okay, I can give you access to these for
0:07:10 a dollar.
0:07:11 Okay.
0:07:14 Next, next step to collect and deliver.
0:07:14 Yeah.
0:07:15 So it’s, it’s one of those things.
0:07:20 I think a lot of people really overanalyze what they should be doing with this.
0:07:21 And it’s like, oh, how do I deliver this?
0:07:23 So it feels like a premium package and all of this sort of stuff.
0:07:26 For years now, I’ve had a ThriveCart subscription.
0:07:30 And if you, I don’t know if you’re familiar with ThriveCart, but it’s a checkout software.
0:07:31 Yep.
0:07:34 And so, you know, you pay once for lifetime and it’s, I think it’s like $500.
0:07:37 So no monthly fees, nothing like this.
0:07:42 And then it integrates with Stripe or PayPal, but you can set up a nice looking cart checkout.
0:07:43 Quite simple.
0:07:47 And so I set it up there and basically then I said, anybody who buys this, send them to this
0:07:51 thank you page, which then has the links to the, get them here.
0:07:51 Okay.
0:07:53 Very, very simple, very low tech.
0:07:56 You could do the same with a Stripe checkout, I think, or even a PayPal page.
0:08:00 Once you have payment, you just send them the links to the, to the custom GPTs.
0:08:00 Okay.
0:08:01 Got it.
0:08:02 Thanks for, thanks for sharing that.
0:08:04 How many people bought the, uh, the $1 thing?
0:08:06 I think it was 26.
0:08:07 Okay.
0:08:10 And so the manual in these different communities groups, right?
0:08:14 So it’s got the people who might be interested in this thing leads to the direct message
0:08:17 outreach to the digital hand raisers, the people who engaged with that content.
0:08:17 Yep.
0:08:21 And then a percentage of those people click through to buy the thing.
0:08:25 So now you’ve got a grand total of $26 minus processing fees.
0:08:25 Exactly.
0:08:26 Yeah.
0:08:29 So that’s the, you’re still not going to make a much of a business out of this.
0:08:30 You know, what happens next?
0:08:35 It’s kind of the, how do you lead people up the value chain to buying more from you or
0:08:36 doing more business with you?
0:08:38 This is where Thrivecart kind of helped out.
0:08:40 And there’s plenty of other tools that you can do this with as well.
0:08:44 A lot of them are termed as like funnel building tools, but also any of the good cart checkouts.
0:08:50 If you look to see if they allow you to create a bump offer and upsell offers, one click upsells,
0:08:52 because that massively reduces the friction.
0:08:56 And basically what this allows you to do is add other products onto the checkout.
0:08:57 Yeah.
0:09:00 So that somebody then has the option to go, Oh, you know, I also want this on that.
0:09:01 You know, yeah, I’ll take that as well.
0:09:07 And I basically built a couple of extra products that I added onto the $1 products on the front.
0:09:10 The way that I always view this is the $1 product or the front ends.
0:09:15 The first thing that they buy is there to help them achieve a quick solution.
0:09:19 Don’t give them this massive big thing of information that they’re going to have to
0:09:21 sort through and figure out how to use.
0:09:24 Give them something that they can take and just put into their business or take and use
0:09:28 and get a very quick result because that’s much easier to sell.
0:09:29 Use this.
0:09:30 It takes five minutes.
0:09:31 You get this result.
0:09:34 Very easy to sell compared to some of the other things out there.
0:09:38 The bump offer, when they go to the checkout, there’ll be a little checkbox that says,
0:09:39 do you also want this?
0:09:43 And that bump offer should be there to add extra value to the initial offer.
0:09:48 And I like to think that it’s going to help people achieve the result faster, easier,
0:09:50 cheaper, or more profitably.
0:09:55 So it’s going to make getting the result from what you’re just selling them for $1 faster,
0:09:58 easier, cheaper, or it’s going to help them get a bigger result.
0:09:59 Okay.
0:10:02 The extra value of the bump offer.
0:10:06 So the, you know, would you like fries with that kind of thing accepted in a business?
0:10:07 Similar to, yeah.
0:10:10 I like to think of it as like a catalyst to help them get better results.
0:10:15 And so in that case, I then recorded a couple of videos of myself building custom GPTs.
0:10:20 And I put a basic template of how I did the description into the custom GPT.
0:10:24 Cause you give it a custom description that it follows that process.
0:10:27 And so I gave them that template and a couple of videos around it.
0:10:31 And I said, you know, for an extra, I think $47 is what I usually go for for a bump.
0:10:36 You can also get the whole system that I’ve built on how to do these so that you can create
0:10:40 not just these for content marketing, but for any repetitive task in your business,
0:10:43 you can teach an AI agent how to handle it for you.
0:10:43 And you just follow this.
0:10:44 Okay.
0:10:49 So like the how to tutorials, the instruction manual, plus if you ever want to do this on your
0:10:51 own, here’s how I set this up.
0:10:51 Exactly.
0:10:52 Yeah.
0:10:56 That is like the first page that they’ll see when they go to buy, they’ll be filling
0:10:58 out their payment details for the $1 product.
0:11:01 And then just before they can click, go through, it’ll be like, do you also want this?
0:11:03 It’ll teach you how to do this.
0:11:04 And it’s like, oh, great.
0:11:10 And then essentially when you’ve sold them that initial product, you’ve solved a problem in
0:11:14 their life and you’ve given them this solution and you’ve moved them from where they are today
0:11:19 to that transformation of where they want to be after that product, that new area, that
0:11:22 new sort of reality that they have, they now have a new problem.
0:11:29 And so I then offer them an upsell, which helps them solve the new problem.
0:11:32 So it’s a solution to that new problem that they experience.
0:11:38 And so in this case, we’re talking that they have custom GPT that will help them create content.
0:11:42 And then we’ve got something that will help them create their own custom GPTs, but they have
0:11:44 a new problem now that they’re going to have this content.
0:11:46 Is it optimized?
0:11:47 How do they promote it?
0:11:49 You know, how do they actually get sales from that?
0:11:53 So then the upsell was more information on how they can turn one piece of content into like
0:11:58 a sales machine so that people who read that piece of content will actually buy rather than
0:12:02 just producing content and seeing no tangible results from it.
0:12:08 So that’s the no shortage of content or digital clutter on the internet, but how do you actually
0:12:10 get results from that?
0:12:11 So that’s the upsell offer.
0:12:13 Do you remember what that was priced at?
0:12:17 I want to say it was 97 or 197.
0:12:21 And I only had maybe, you know, a handful of people take that.
0:12:27 It wasn’t like a huge number of people, but I was 97 or 197 because that’s usually the numbers
0:12:31 that I’ll go for is the initial product will be anything from, you know, I always start these
0:12:34 at $1 because it’s a very low barrier to entry.
0:12:40 And just beginning thinking on a transactional relationship with the person changes the rest
0:12:41 of your relationship with them.
0:12:42 It’s buyers versus freebie seekers.
0:12:43 Yeah.
0:12:49 But it’s usually $1, then 47 for the bump, then 97 to 197 for the upsell is what I tend
0:12:50 to go for.
0:12:52 And that gives you potentially 250.
0:13:00 In all digital, you know, no, no direct time required on your part to deliver this good.
0:13:03 It’s not like people are signing up for coaching or consulting yet.
0:13:04 Not yet.
0:13:04 Nope.
0:13:08 So this was all just something that I’ve created and it was loom videos.
0:13:13 So pretty low tech in terms of, you know, there was no lots of editing and like flashy
0:13:13 things.
0:13:16 It was me sat in this very chair doing a screen share.
0:13:17 It’s like, go here.
0:13:17 This is how I do it.
0:13:18 These are the templates.
0:13:19 This is why it works.
0:13:21 Very, very low tech sort of approach.
0:13:26 It took me maybe an hour to create the bump and the upsell together.
0:13:31 And then once I created them, I could sell them dozens of times.
0:13:31 Okay.
0:13:32 Interesting.
0:13:34 This is like, I’m starting to piece together.
0:13:37 You almost have to start with what you know.
0:13:37 I don’t know.
0:13:42 What would you recommend people start to like start peeling out different segments of their
0:13:47 knowledge and expertise or like, you know, how to think about these different tiers as
0:13:47 different offers.
0:13:48 Like, it’s really interesting.
0:13:53 I would always start with the, the end customer, like who is it that you’re trying to sell to
0:13:56 and figure out what are their problems that you can solve.
0:13:59 So they, they have various, but everybody has problems in their life.
0:14:01 What are the problem for your ideal customer that you can solve?
0:14:02 That’s where I’d start.
0:14:08 And usually if we’re talking about sort of business offers, whether it’s services, coaching
0:14:12 courses, there’ll be one primary offer that will take somebody from where they are today
0:14:15 to that end transformation of where they want to be.
0:14:21 And that might be earning a set amount of money, having X percent freedom or whatever
0:14:21 it might be.
0:14:27 The $1 product needs to eventually lead into that big thing because if there’s no direct
0:14:32 line between the first purchase and the big purchase, you know, you’re not going to, I
0:14:38 see what a lot of people do with their, with their low ticket offers is they sell the equivalent
0:14:40 of like, Oh, look, here’s some stuff for blue shoes.
0:14:45 And then their primary offer is yellow t-shirts and it’s like the person who wants blue shoes
0:14:46 doesn’t care about yellow t-shirts.
0:14:48 So there has to be like a direct line.
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0:17:30 In my case, what I could help people with was content marketing.
0:17:32 And I had a course at the time, which was the content marketing model.
0:17:35 And that’s how I did, like, built whole content marketing systems.
0:17:38 And so that was going to be the end thing for this.
0:17:39 And so I had to go back.
0:17:43 What would be the very first thing that I could do that would be very small and help somebody
0:17:48 solve the initial problem that’s stopping them getting from where they are to that big
0:17:49 transformation of where they want to be?
0:17:51 I just want to help them take that first step.
0:17:52 Got it.
0:17:54 That’s what the initial $1 product should be.
0:17:59 Then the bump offer is the catalyst to help them achieve that faster, easier, cheaper.
0:18:02 The upsell is the next problem that they have.
0:18:05 And then that all qualifies them for whatever the bigger piece is that you’re going to sell
0:18:06 them down the line.
0:18:09 What was that in your case?
0:18:09 Because it doesn’t stop.
0:18:11 It didn’t even stop with the upsell.
0:18:13 It’s like there’s still more.
0:18:17 And it harkens back to the 80-20 sales and marketing.
0:18:23 Well, for everybody who buys this thing, a percentage would buy something 10 times more
0:18:23 expensive.
0:18:26 And then a percentage of those people would buy something 10 times more expensive.
0:18:28 So what was it in your case?
0:18:28 Yeah.
0:18:30 I email my email list every single day.
0:18:33 And I’m always keeping in touch with them.
0:18:38 And this was going to be, and the way that I built things now is there’d be an automated
0:18:42 thing on the back end where it then drip feeds them information for whatever the big offer
0:18:42 was.
0:18:46 And as I said, I was going to push them towards, it was a thousand dollar course, which was
0:18:47 the content marketing model.
0:18:51 At the time, I thought that things wouldn’t take off so quickly.
0:18:52 I didn’t think that I’d see sales.
0:18:54 Initially, I was just testing things.
0:18:56 So I didn’t have everything ready for that.
0:19:00 And so I started emailing people and I was like, if you’d like some help, let me know.
0:19:04 And essentially somebody reached out and they were like, it seems like you know what you’re
0:19:04 doing.
0:19:05 Can you help us?
0:19:07 And closed.
0:19:11 I think it was like a three grand short-term consulting gig with this brand.
0:19:13 They just reached out and said, when can you start?
0:19:14 And I said, yeah, I can come in.
0:19:19 And it was very low effort for me because it was more like a coaching rather than me
0:19:20 doing the work.
0:19:21 So I would come in, help their team.
0:19:24 But that was what it became in that short-term.
0:19:29 And that’s why in those 10 days, they went from buying a $1 product to hiring me for $3,000.
0:19:30 Isn’t that crazy?
0:19:37 That’s just like such an interesting sequence of events or of sales funnel, so to speak, from
0:19:42 strangers to building up trust and authority and credibility to get somebody to pay you three
0:19:42 grand.
0:19:43 Yeah.
0:19:48 I think it’s that difference between starting off on a transactional versus a non-transactional
0:19:49 relationship.
0:19:52 The way I look at it is if somebody is willing to pay even a dollar, they have a pain that
0:19:54 they’re actively trying to solve.
0:19:59 And I always term it as in, it’s the difference between people who think information and the
0:20:00 solution is nice to have.
0:20:01 And what they do is they collect it.
0:20:05 They put it in like a Google drive folder and they’re like, I’ll come back to that in
0:20:05 a week.
0:20:08 And people who think that the information and the solution that you have is something they
0:20:09 need to have.
0:20:13 If they’re willing to pay even a dollar, they need the solution, which means they’re going
0:20:17 to be more receptive to more help to help them get that solution and the transformation
0:20:18 faster.
0:20:21 Now, we’ve heard this phrase in a few different ways.
0:20:22 People who pay, pay attention.
0:20:27 And in a lot of ways, it’s easier to take somebody when this was the example of Fiverr, you know,
0:20:33 his line was it’s easier to take somebody from $5 to $10,000 than it is to take somebody from
0:20:33 zero to five.
0:20:36 It’s like that initial transaction hurdle.
0:20:38 Like, I got to bring in my credit card.
0:20:38 I got to pay for something.
0:20:46 It’s a much bigger burden of proof to get somebody to pay you even a dollar than it is to, you know,
0:20:48 sell them more stuff once you have built that trust.
0:20:54 The way that I view it is the $1 product is little more than a filter for those who are
0:20:58 serious because everybody’s collecting these big email lists.
0:21:01 And I’ve worked with people who have got tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people,
0:21:05 but they’re not making the revenue that they should from that audience because there are
0:21:09 those people, like you said, who want to go from $5 to $10,000 and spend.
0:21:14 But when you’ve got so many people who just want free stuff, it’s very hard to identify who
0:21:14 they are.
0:21:19 And, you know, that whole argument of signals versus noise, it’s very difficult to find when
0:21:20 you’ve just attracted the freebie seekers.
0:21:25 So I just view the $1 products as a filter for those who are serious, and then I can continue
0:21:28 to serve and help those people achieve their goals.
0:21:37 And in your mind, the days of the ebook or the, you know, the five day email course or challenge,
0:21:42 like that stuff is kind of, that’s just like more information versus, you know, if I’m charging
0:21:46 for a thing, it’s almost got to be like you said, this custom GPT, like something that people
0:21:48 can implement right away.
0:21:53 I’m curious, your, your structure or like what, what might make sense for that intro offer?
0:22:00 I think any format can work and it’s really depending on what, who it is that you’re working
0:22:03 or targeting to work with and how you’re trying to bring them in.
0:22:07 But I know guys who are using this with like eBooks and they’re charging for the eBooks.
0:22:09 So not the free eBooks, it still works.
0:22:14 I know people who are running little challenges and the difficulty that you have with both
0:22:19 eBooks and challenges and courses is consumption because it’s great having somebody pay a dollar,
0:22:23 but you need them to actually go and consume it and use the thing to then make the high ticket
0:22:28 stuff really viable when you’re talking about nurturing them post-purchase.
0:22:32 But I don’t think that there’s any one thing that is like, doesn’t work.
0:22:36 I think the difference is whether or not you’re giving it away for free or charging for it
0:22:40 because that payment is what filters the serious people.
0:22:46 Is there any thought to what competitors are doing or do you find that people are like
0:22:51 shopping around, so to speak, for this like a dollar thing where it’s like, well, other people
0:22:52 are offering this for free.
0:22:53 So why should I pay you?
0:23:00 So I’ve not had any sort of pushbacks with anything like this and yeah, I’ve not seen it.
0:23:04 I guess there is a thing where when you’re trying to sell something, you do probably have to put
0:23:07 a little bit more effort into the marketing to make it feel a bit more premium.
0:23:12 But one thing that I’m always very confident in is that anything that I sell, I know that
0:23:15 the quality of the information and the solution inside is good.
0:23:15 It works.
0:23:16 It’s always tested.
0:23:19 So I’m not worried about somebody not getting their money back.
0:23:25 What I always try and do is make sure that they get at least two times value of what they’ve
0:23:29 paid because then nobody can ever come back and be like, oh, that wasn’t worth the money.
0:23:29 Yeah.
0:23:34 With a $1 product, you’re looking more at like a hundred times the value because nobody wants
0:23:35 to put you.
0:23:35 Yeah.
0:23:35 Yeah.
0:23:38 It’s hard to imagine to be like, can I get a refund on this?
0:23:39 This was not worth it all.
0:23:39 Exactly.
0:23:40 Yeah.
0:23:44 One of the things that I realized when I did the custom GPTs is you needed a chat GPT
0:23:47 pro account to actually be able to use them.
0:23:49 And I put that on the sales page.
0:23:50 One person didn’t notice it.
0:23:52 They emailed me like, I can’t use these.
0:23:53 And I was like, I’m happy to give you a refund.
0:23:55 They were like, that’s fine.
0:24:01 So, but yeah, no one’s going to ask for a refund for a dollar, even if it’s terrible.
0:24:06 But last week or the week before I actually bought somebody who’s doing a similar thing
0:24:13 with $3 as a product and the quality of the information inside was really quite lackluster.
0:24:17 And as a result, when they then started to put me into their email sequences to pitch
0:24:19 me the higher ticket things, I had no trust in them.
0:24:25 So when I’m doing the $1 products, I like to offer at least like a hundred dollars worth
0:24:31 of value for the $1 because, you know, this is the first touch point of this relationship.
0:24:36 If I start off on a bad foot, if I charge them a dollar and it’s terrible, it’s
0:24:40 I’m not going to be able to charge them a hundred dollars, a thousand dollars down the
0:24:40 line.
0:24:42 It still has to be of a high quality.
0:24:43 Yeah, I’m with you.
0:24:44 It’s like the first, it’s like that free sample.
0:24:49 It’s got to be good where the $1 sample, like it’s got to be enticing enough to build that
0:24:52 trust and say, yeah, this guy is worth doing business with.
0:24:52 Exactly.
0:24:56 And my thought is if you can give me a dollar and I give you a hundred dollars worth of
0:24:56 value back.
0:25:00 When I turn around and I say, this thing’s like a hundred dollars, you’re going to say,
0:25:02 how good is this thing going to be?
0:25:02 It’s going to be amazing.
0:25:04 Right, right.
0:25:05 This is helpful.
0:25:08 If I’m pausing, it’s because I’m trying to map out like what, you know, what the sequence
0:25:09 might look like.
0:25:13 Are you still selling this sequence or are you still selling this product or are you kind
0:25:16 of migrated to something else?
0:25:20 Are you still going active in these communities or is there, at a certain point, we’ve heard
0:25:25 of people doing like a self-liquidating offer, like trying to drive ad advertising traffic
0:25:30 through Facebook or Instagram or whatever, like to the $1 thing.
0:25:32 And then, you know, at least pay for the ad costs.
0:25:33 You do anything like that?
0:25:33 A hundred percent.
0:25:34 Yeah.
0:25:39 So the, the initial offer I’m not running anymore because it’s, it’s, it’s obsolete.
0:25:45 Now AI has got a much better point than it was that you don’t really need the custom GPTs
0:25:47 for what I was doing it for.
0:25:52 And, you know, it’s gone through several iterations since I was selling this and really, I don’t
0:25:56 think there’s much value in the custom GPTs that I had built for those things.
0:26:01 I still use a lot of custom GPTs in my community with people based around templates that we know
0:26:04 that works, but yeah, not using that offer still using very low ticket offers.
0:26:11 And I still begin them all at $1 and I still go out and I start spear phishing in communities
0:26:15 where there are people who are interested in this just to try and get feel.
0:26:19 Because I think the problem that a lot of people have and the mistake that they make is they
0:26:21 think ads are a cure-all.
0:26:22 It’s like a silver bullet.
0:26:24 If you just run ads, you’ll make sales.
0:26:28 Ads, in my opinion and experience are a catalyst.
0:26:30 Again, like they’re fuel to the fire.
0:26:33 You need to be able to sell one of something, then you should be able to sell 10 of it.
0:26:38 If you can sell 10 to 100 of that thing, ads will then help you sell 100 to 1,000.
0:26:44 Most people don’t have the money to throw at ads to them to find out if something works to
0:26:45 lose thousands of dollars.
0:26:50 So I want to go out and I want to see if this will sell without having to put money behind
0:26:52 it and then I’ll put money behind it.
0:26:54 So yeah, still running $1 products.
0:26:57 And then what happens is once you start running ads, you’re going to have to play with the prices
0:27:02 a bit to try and get sure, to make sure that the average order value beats the cost per
0:27:03 acquisition on ads.
0:27:07 So I’m running my own ads now for the $1 product challenge.
0:27:07 Oh, okay.
0:27:08 It’s very meta.
0:27:09 Yeah.
0:27:10 Yeah, exactly.
0:27:14 It’s all very dependent upon making sure that when they come through that initial funnel,
0:27:17 they at least break even with the acquisition cost.
0:27:23 So yeah, you do have to play around with it, but it’s just the easiest way to scale because
0:27:27 doing the spear phishing is great, but it’s difficult to scale after a certain point.
0:27:33 Yeah, it’s manual outreach or it’s time consuming versus something that you just have sales come
0:27:33 in your way.
0:27:38 And I like this idea of validate it first, make sure somebody is going to order it, get
0:27:44 those first 10, 20 people to buy it from this manual effort before trying to automate the
0:27:47 thing and then making sure those ad costs are in line.
0:27:49 What do you see?
0:27:52 I guess it varies, the cart value.
0:27:57 The cool thing is, you know, right away, like because of the sequences, you know, it’s
0:28:02 like the order bump and the upsell, like you get a pretty good sense of, well, what’s
0:28:03 the conversion rate going to be?
0:28:05 Like what’s the average cart value going to be?
0:28:08 It’s not like this three month, you know, lead time to make a sale.
0:28:09 Yeah.
0:28:13 So you can generally find out quite quickly as long as you can drive the traffic to it
0:28:14 through spear phishing or ads or whatever.
0:28:18 You can find out quite quickly whether or not things are working.
0:28:22 And like I said, then it’s just playing around with whether the offers are right to get
0:28:27 the, you know, right conversion rates on the bump offers and the upsells and also the front
0:28:27 end products.
0:28:29 And then also playing around with the price to find this sweet spot.
0:28:35 Do you have a rule of thumb on average order value that you shoot for or conversion rate
0:28:37 or, or your cost to acquire a customer?
0:28:40 Like any of those metrics that people should keep in mind?
0:28:42 Very different depending on the industry.
0:28:47 So obviously me selling this, I’m in one of the more competitive industries for, you
0:28:49 know, biz op as it’s, you know, often called.
0:28:52 So like, you know, the sort of make money online type stuff.
0:28:56 It’s very competitive up there with finance, legal, all of these things.
0:29:02 So currently for me, my average order, sorry, my cost per acquisition is around $35 to $40.
0:29:04 It kind of fluctuates between those two.
0:29:08 So if I’m paying for ads, I’m going to be paying 35 to 40 bucks just to get a customer.
0:29:14 I worked with a guy who was a sports psychologist and we were getting customers for him at $5.
0:29:20 Like it was a much lesser fee because very, very specific to a specific industry of sports
0:29:21 psychology.
0:29:26 There’s somebody in my community and they’re running a pure $1 product funnel where it’s
0:29:30 just $1 products that they’re selling on the front end, uh, language learning.
0:29:36 And again, far cheaper, but they’re also targeting markets where it is cheaper ad spends.
0:29:40 So I’m targeting the US, UK, Australia, Canada, New Zealand.
0:29:40 Yeah.
0:29:40 Yeah.
0:29:40 Yeah.
0:29:41 They’re teaching English.
0:29:46 And so they’re targeting places that are cheaper for ad costs.
0:29:47 So their costs are low.
0:29:51 So it’s really difficult to say, this is what you should be aiming for.
0:29:54 The golden rule is just that you try and have to make the average order value better than
0:29:55 the CPA.
0:30:00 And that’s going to fluctuate so much depending on the industry, the offer, the audience,
0:30:02 all of these things.
0:30:03 Okay.
0:30:04 Got it.
0:30:10 So collect that data up front and, uh, you know, through this manual method or through
0:30:13 your own traffic channels before turning on the ads.
0:30:15 Cause it’s a good way to go backwards in a hurry.
0:30:17 If you can’t, uh, recoup those costs.
0:30:21 Now it is important to know this is kind of like upfront, like where I may need to break
0:30:24 even or make a small profit on this initial ad spend.
0:30:29 But then I’ve got this list of buyers that can hire me for consulting.
0:30:30 They can buy my higher ticket stuff.
0:30:34 Like it’s an engaged group who, who hopefully has some trust in what you’re doing and can
0:30:36 continue to do business with you down the road.
0:30:43 And we’ve found people who will spend even a dollar are up to around 12 times more likely
0:30:50 to buy other programs, offers, services from you again, than if they came through from free
0:30:51 leads.
0:30:55 So you’re going to get 12 times more sales by focusing on these people than you would on
0:30:57 people who just want information because it’s nice to have.
0:31:03 And, uh, that’s even if it’s just a single dollar rather than like a 27 or $47 front end.
0:31:03 Got it.
0:31:07 Anything that we missed on the $1 product challenge?
0:31:07 I like this stuff.
0:31:09 Yeah, I don’t, I don’t think so.
0:31:11 I think breakeven is good.
0:31:13 If you can make even a small profit, it’s better.
0:31:17 And it is, you know, figuring out it’s a lot of testing between the offers to really get
0:31:18 that right.
0:31:22 But as you mentioned, running straight into do ads is fine.
0:31:27 If you have the capital to burn, because I know guys who will just throw
0:31:31 $10,000, an ad campaign to see if they can make money back and they’ll find the messaging
0:31:32 because they’ll test heavily.
0:31:34 A lot of people don’t have that money.
0:31:37 So test manually first.
0:31:40 And then once it’s working, use ads to kind of scale that reach.
0:31:41 Right.
0:31:43 Now that makes, that makes a lot of sense.
0:31:47 So growthmodels.co slash dollar.
0:31:50 You can learn more about the $1 product challenge over there.
0:31:56 We’re going to be right back with Pete, including round two, donate a business idea right after
0:31:56 this.
0:31:58 All right.
0:32:00 We’re back with Pete Boyle from growthmodels.co.
0:32:03 Round one was the $1 product challenge.
0:32:06 Round two is donate a business idea.
0:32:08 This is something that you might start yourself.
0:32:11 If you had more time, this is something that you think listeners could run with something
0:32:12 that ought to exist in the world.
0:32:14 What have you got for us here?
0:32:16 I’m going to go through something that’s very self-serving.
0:32:21 Um, one of the things that, you know, I’m really working on with my business is how to
0:32:23 increase the reach and how to attract more buyers.
0:32:28 Obviously ads are great for this, but I do a lot of email marketing and there are lots
0:32:34 of tools out there that will allow you to do newsletter exchanges and there’s tools like,
0:32:38 you know, I could name a couple of them where it’s like, Hey, you’ve got an email newsletter.
0:32:40 There’s a similar size as I do.
0:32:42 Let’s exchange newsletters.
0:32:45 Let’s see, you know, if my subscribers want to become your subscribers.
0:32:47 There’s also ones out there that will allow you to find ones to sponsor.
0:32:54 What I’m really looking for is ways that I can find affiliate marketers who have engaged email
0:33:01 lists that could be validated in some way so that then I could approach those affiliate
0:33:02 marketers and say, look, I have this offer.
0:33:05 You know, affiliate marketing is a great way.
0:33:09 If you have the right overlap of audiences to reach a new audience, I’ll give you 50% of
0:33:10 all of the sales.
0:33:15 If you can promote this to your audience and all of this, because when I’m working with
0:33:17 affiliates in the past, you attract a lot of them.
0:33:20 5% of them will drive 95% of the sales.
0:33:25 Some of them will come through and they’ll turn out that they don’t have a good list in
0:33:28 terms of engagement or that it’s just the wrong audience.
0:33:35 So it’d be great if there was some kind of directory of good vetted affiliate marketers
0:33:39 who are promoting people’s offers and are willing to do co-promotions and all of this sort
0:33:43 of stuff and had a method that you could directly outreach to those people.
0:33:44 Okay.
0:33:50 So that’s the business idea directory of essentially affiliate marketing email lists.
0:33:51 Yeah.
0:33:54 And like there’s things where it’s similar to this, but not quite.
0:33:58 There’s, you know, places where you can find newsletters for sponsorships.
0:34:03 But of course, a sponsorship is just usually one email, a static piece of text or a static
0:34:04 image, which is fine.
0:34:05 Yeah.
0:34:08 When I’ve been an affiliate for people and when I’ve had affiliates who do the best for me,
0:34:13 what we tend to do is we build a full sequence and we run it on the same kind of process where
0:34:15 it’s, you know, same concept as spear phishing.
0:34:16 We do a digital hand raise.
0:34:17 Who’s interested in this?
0:34:21 People who say that they’re interested in this, they then get like a five or a 10 day promotion
0:34:23 of the other offer.
0:34:28 That way you don’t annoy your email list, but you tend to get much higher sales than just
0:34:30 a sponsorship in somebody’s newsletter.
0:34:32 Uh, no, that makes sense.
0:34:34 Do you know, uh, Matt McWilliams?
0:34:35 I do not.
0:34:40 Matt, I think it’s the affiliate guy.com or something like, anyways, Matt’s been on the
0:34:40 show before.
0:34:47 He’s been in the affiliate space for a decade plus and he kind of coordinates these types
0:34:54 of launches, you know, geared toward product, you know, big online business celebrity type
0:34:55 of product launches.
0:34:58 And, you know, on the affiliate recruiting side is a specialty.
0:35:03 So he may have something like this internal to his company, uh, this, this kind of database
0:35:09 where he could, uh, go work with the, on the directory side, we did an episode late last
0:35:12 year with John Rush episode six 47.
0:35:18 I want to say in, in the podcast archives, where he talks all about building these types
0:35:24 of directory websites where you’re pulling in the data and that’s the value add is the
0:35:24 data.
0:35:30 And in this case, it could be, um, number of subscribers, you know, industry that they reach,
0:35:34 um, you know, how long they’ve been in business, like different data points that you could have.
0:35:39 And I don’t know, maybe there’s some business where you take a percentage of a percentage
0:35:40 of an affiliate.
0:35:44 I don’t know how you would necessarily monetize it or maybe you charge for access to it.
0:35:47 Cause it’s like, you know, there’s obviously some money to be made on the other side, but
0:35:49 this would be, um, an interesting one to run with.
0:35:51 There’s things that are close to it.
0:35:54 And even like, you know, convert kit now, it’s my, I use convert kit from email service
0:35:57 where they have a thing where it’s like the creator network and you can go and find other
0:36:02 creators, but it doesn’t tell you the size of their list, how engaged their list are,
0:36:03 how often they email.
0:36:04 You kind of have to manually do all of that.
0:36:08 And then you have to manually go and find their email address to reach out to people.
0:36:11 And it’s like, oh, you know, it’s a lot of extra manual work.
0:36:14 And I’m like, there’s, there’s a simpler solution somewhere.
0:36:18 But it’s the manual work that leads to conversations like this.
0:36:20 Cause it was one of those, you sent me a cold email.
0:36:22 It was like, Hey, I’ve got this thing called the $1 product.
0:36:23 Do you want to promote it?
0:36:25 It was like, well, I’ll learn a little bit more about this.
0:36:27 It’s like, Hey, this is kind of interesting.
0:36:29 And now we got to do a whole episode about it.
0:36:32 So there’s, there’s pros and cons to it.
0:36:36 It sounds like you need a, um, a virtual assistant to do some of this initial research and outreach
0:36:37 for you.
0:36:38 That’s the thing.
0:36:38 Yeah.
0:36:42 And I’m, you know, there’s part of me, which is thinking if I get somebody in to help almost
0:36:46 as an affiliate partner, um, if we can just chronicle people that we find who are up for
0:36:51 it, get their approval, we could maybe create this because I know, um, certain tools as well.
0:36:56 They started off literally with this as similar thing, but for like newsletter promos, there’s
0:37:02 a guy that I know who did this started off as an air table and eventually sold the business.
0:37:08 So, and that was, it was just finding newsletters, pulling all the stats for co-promotions, uh,
0:37:10 doing intros between people.
0:37:13 And then it became a, an acquisition for somebody else.
0:37:15 Like somebody came along to acquire the business.
0:37:15 Yeah.
0:37:17 This would be, uh, no, no, no.
0:37:20 The more we talk about it, the more I think like, yeah, this is super valuable because there’s
0:37:23 going to be, there’s always going to be people with offers.
0:37:27 So there’s always going to be people with email lists who need those offers to monetize their
0:37:30 business and help their, uh, and help their audience.
0:37:31 So it makes, you know, it makes sense.
0:37:33 In fact, can we go back and come up with another idea?
0:37:35 Can we, can we just do this one ourselves?
0:37:36 Yeah.
0:37:36 Yeah.
0:37:37 Maybe so.
0:37:38 You got anything else?
0:37:40 You got another idea you want to toss out?
0:37:40 Yeah.
0:37:40 Yeah.
0:37:42 I’m going to have to come up with one quickly.
0:37:47 Um, but I think in like personally, I would find this as like quite a valuable idea.
0:37:52 If somebody would create that, it’s definitely something I would be interested in testing.
0:37:52 Yeah.
0:37:53 There’s definitely something here.
0:37:58 Cause there is, like you said, there’s the matchmakers for the email newsletter sponsorships.
0:38:01 Um, the exchange or like, do you have a, on this newsletter exchange?
0:38:03 Like promo swap type of database?
0:38:05 Do you have a resource that you like on that front?
0:38:06 That’s an interesting one.
0:38:08 Letter growth is one.
0:38:13 And I believe that, uh, I think beehive has one that’s kind of, uh, built in.
0:38:14 I’m not sure.
0:38:15 I don’t use beehive.
0:38:19 And like I said, convert kit also has one where you can recommend one another.
0:38:24 Um, and like basically when somebody subscribes your email list, it throws up a pop up and
0:38:26 it says, Hey, these are my friends.
0:38:28 You should also consider subscribing to these guys.
0:38:31 And then there’s, um, a paid version where it’s.
0:38:37 Uh, spark loop, which integrates with a lot of these tools and you can use them to basically
0:38:43 say anybody who sends me a subscriber, I’ll send them $1, $2, $5 per subscriber.
0:38:47 If you’re going to do that, it’s very important to know your payback periods and the average
0:38:51 customer lifetime value so that, you know, you’re not going to get into trouble by spending
0:38:53 $5 per subscriber.
0:38:55 And then actually they only pay you on average $3 back.
0:38:56 Yeah.
0:38:56 Yeah.
0:39:03 I’ll go backwards on that math, but there’s, there’s something to this matchmaker model and
0:39:06 we’ve seen it in sites like podcast guests.com.
0:39:11 Like how do we, um, match people who have podcasts with people who need guests or with people who
0:39:15 want to guest on podcasts and even like help a reporter, you know, journalists who need sources
0:39:17 and sources who want to get some press.
0:39:20 So there’s, there’s definitely some precedence for it.
0:39:20 So I like this one.
0:39:26 We’ll, we’ll call this the affiliate marketing email database, uh, business idea.
0:39:26 There we go.
0:39:27 All right.
0:39:28 That is round two.
0:39:30 Round three is what we call the triple threat.
0:39:36 And the first part of this is a marketing tactic that is working right now.
0:39:37 $1 products.
0:39:40 Yeah.
0:39:45 One thing, I mean, that’s working right now that I’m really trying to do more of is YouTube.
0:39:51 I think YouTube is one of the best tools that people aren’t using as much as they should.
0:39:56 Um, and the reason that I really like YouTube is there is a great balance between both paid
0:39:58 and organic on the same platform.
0:40:00 And so you could probably get compounding gains.
0:40:06 And that’s one thing that we’re trying to really look at is how you can use paid to accelerate
0:40:09 the organic growth or vice versa.
0:40:12 Um, with like retargeting audiences and all of this sort of thing.
0:40:18 But I don’t, I see a lot of people who are jumping into still things like Facebook ads and I’m
0:40:23 running Facebook ads, but I think YouTube really is a better long-term opportunity.
0:40:25 You see a lower cost of acquisition there?
0:40:29 Not so much yet because I’m still really getting to grips with the advertising.
0:40:34 And I think that’s probably my shortcoming that I’m not seeing as good as CPA.
0:40:38 I’m seeing much cheaper click-through rates and all of this sort of stuff.
0:40:47 But I think as well, as we move towards more AI content, having real people on camera is one
0:40:53 of the things that is at the minute harder for AI to sort of recreate.
0:40:58 And so as most selling is done based on trust and based, you know, people buy from people.
0:40:58 Yeah.
0:41:03 Having a face to the brand really seems to be working quite well, even with smaller audiences.
0:41:09 I know guys with like, you know, 2000 subscribers who are pulling good money because they’re not
0:41:15 relying on YouTube’s ad revenue, but they’re using it as a way to bring them, uh, course customers,
0:41:16 coaching clients, that kind of stuff.
0:41:22 What’s a typical call to action for you on a, on a YouTube video or an example of a video
0:41:23 that’s done well?
0:41:26 Again, this is one thing that I am currently figuring out.
0:41:30 I am about 17 days into a test I’m doing.
0:41:35 I run a lot of my own little experiments where I’m trying to publish one long form YouTube
0:41:37 video per day, about 10 minutes each.
0:41:41 So I’m about 17 days maybe into doing one video per day.
0:41:42 Okay.
0:41:47 And so I’m happy to check back in and say what worked and what didn’t, uh, what I’ve tried
0:41:56 as well is a method similar to the spear phishing approach where basically I pick some of my top
0:41:59 performing videos, put money behind them to reach the audience and then retarget those
0:42:05 people with a conversion focused ad because you can get reasonable reach for quite cheap on
0:42:06 YouTube.
0:42:10 And then basically if I know somebody watches the video, they engage with it, they click
0:42:10 on the thumbnail.
0:42:15 If I then hit them with a conversion focus, I’d like, Hey, this system will help you attract
0:42:16 buyers, not freebie seekers.
0:42:17 Check it out over here.
0:42:22 That’s one thing that I’m sort of working on really just nailing down at the minute.
0:42:22 No.
0:42:22 Okay.
0:42:26 This is, this is the kind of nitty gritty stuff that I, that I totally love geeking out
0:42:27 on.
0:42:33 So organic video, long form content, see which is naturally going to rise to the top, put some
0:42:35 money to boost that, you know, promote that video.
0:42:40 Go to a, you know, a broader audience, send it out to the world and then retargeting those
0:42:41 to be, Hey, you watch this thing.
0:42:46 And then if you’re serious about this, this is the call to action related video where it’s
0:42:48 like, and now go, go buy the $1 thing.
0:42:50 And now you’re into my, into my sequence.
0:42:50 Exactly.
0:42:51 Yeah.
0:42:55 And at the same time, what I’m doing is people who buy the $1 product challenge, obviously
0:42:59 I have other offers that are the primary profit drivers.
0:43:01 Now I want to get people into them.
0:43:02 Again, people buy from people.
0:43:06 If I can get them to consume and get a result from the $1 product challenge, they’re primed
0:43:07 to buy the next stuff.
0:43:09 But you know, people buy from people.
0:43:13 So I’ve recorded YouTube videos that help coach people through those next stages as well.
0:43:19 So that’s why I think YouTube is way more sort of flexible than a lot of other channels.
0:43:22 And at the same time, I could keep going for hours on this.
0:43:24 I’m sorry, this is going to be a long one.
0:43:28 But one thing that I’ve been doing as well is trying to figure out how you can be, you
0:43:31 know, there’s the whole concept of omnipresent marketing.
0:43:34 People log into Facebook, they see you, they’re on LinkedIn, they see you.
0:43:37 It’s very difficult to do that because it’s so much content to produce.
0:43:44 If I can produce one 10 minute video, I use a tool which then separates that into seven or
0:43:47 eight different short videos for YouTube shorts, TikTok, LinkedIn.
0:43:53 I can then have AI take the transcript and turn that into a couple of different social posts.
0:43:57 And so that’s another thing that I’ve been playing around with is as I’m recording one
0:44:02 of these long form videos every day, one long form video is becoming five to 10 shorts.
0:44:06 It’s becoming five social posts, text posts.
0:44:13 Those shorts and text posts can be used across Twitter, LinkedIn, TikTok, YouTube, Facebook,
0:44:14 Instagram.
0:44:16 Is there a specific tool that you’re using for that?
0:44:19 Because that’s the next question, a new or new to you tool that you’re loving right now.
0:44:19 Yeah.
0:44:24 So the tool that I’m really like relying on at the minute is, I don’t know whether it’s
0:44:25 Descript or Descript.
0:44:30 I don’t know how they want you to pronounce it, but Descript, D-E-S-C-R-I-P-T.
0:44:31 Yeah.
0:44:35 And it’s, um, you know, I, I picked it because I hate video editing.
0:44:35 I’m no good at it.
0:44:36 It takes up too much time.
0:44:39 And this, it transcribes the video.
0:44:43 And if there’s a piece of the video you don’t like, you just cut that, the words from the
0:44:46 transcription and it’ll edit it out of the video for you.
0:44:46 So much easier.
0:44:50 They have an AI tool built in where it’s like, Hey, create some clips.
0:44:52 You give it some prompts about what kind of clips you want.
0:44:54 You go away for three minutes.
0:44:56 You come back, your clips are ready.
0:44:57 Oh, I didn’t know they had that.
0:45:01 Cause we use, we use Descript or my, my video editor uses Descript for the video editing stuff
0:45:01 too.
0:45:05 And it’s like the first time you use it, it’s like just this amazing experience of like,
0:45:09 I could just edit the transcript versus like having to find that specific timestamp for the
0:45:11 video and drag the thing over here.
0:45:12 No, it’s really, really cool.
0:45:18 And then, yeah, it’s Underlord, you know, it’s at the top in the top right corner of
0:45:23 the, um, of the sidebar on the right hand side, Underlord, and then scroll down about two thirds
0:45:23 of the way.
0:45:27 There’s a bit which says create clips and it’ll do all of that for you.
0:45:30 You can pick a template so that it designs it well, and then it would just export them
0:45:31 all into that template.
0:45:38 You have to double check them because sometimes the clips are no good, but you know, it’s the
0:45:40 fastest way that I’ve found to do clips.
0:45:45 And then I’m using, um, socialb.com, I think basically what that allows me to do.
0:45:50 So yesterday I exported 15 shorts and I was like, this is going to take a long time for
0:45:53 me to schedule this social be allows you to set up queues.
0:45:59 So at 1 PM every day, share a short to these platforms.
0:46:04 And then I just upload 15 shorts, give them the title and it adds them to the queue.
0:46:06 And I don’t actually have to manually schedule anything out.
0:46:07 Okay.
0:46:08 Socialb.com.
0:46:10 That’s, uh, that’s a new one.
0:46:11 We’ll link both of those up.
0:46:16 Descript and Socialb, other tools that you mentioned in the call, Thrivecart, Loom, ConvertKit,
0:46:19 Beehive, lots of different tools at your disposal.
0:46:23 So we’ll link up, uh, all of those in, uh, in the show notes for this episode.
0:46:28 The last question of the triple threat is your favorite book from the last 12 months.
0:46:34 So it’s, it’s, it’s maybe not my favorite book from the last 12 months, but as I mentioned,
0:46:36 I’m really trying to get better at, uh, YouTube.
0:46:41 And what I found is headline thumbnail are really important for getting people to engage with the
0:46:41 video.
0:46:45 And the first 30 seconds are really important to get people invested.
0:46:50 And so I’ve been rereading a book called great leads, which is a direct response marketing book
0:46:53 about how to start sales messages.
0:46:57 Like I need, this is from guys who would write 10, 20,000 word sales letters.
0:47:01 Um, and this book is all about how to open them up in the different ways that you can do
0:47:06 it to hook engagement and hook like curiosity from people to get them to want to read the rest.
0:47:08 So, you know, you grab that attention early.
0:47:13 Um, so that’s one thing that I’ve been rereading in an attempt to see if I can port any of
0:47:15 that information over to video.
0:47:16 Okay.
0:47:19 Great leads, a direct response marketing book.
0:47:22 We will link that one up as well.
0:47:24 That’s, uh, that’s new to me again.
0:47:30 Uh, you can find Pete at growth models.co growth models.co slash dollar is, uh, the place
0:47:33 to start your $1 product challenge.
0:47:35 Big thanks to Pete for sharing his insight.
0:47:39 Big thanks to our sponsors for helping make this content free for everyone.
0:47:45 As always, you can hit up side hustle nation.com slash deals for all the latest offers from our
0:47:46 sponsors in one place.
0:47:49 Thank you for supporting the advertisers that support the show.
0:47:50 That is it for me.
0:47:51 Thank you so much for tuning in.
0:47:55 If you’re finding value in the show, the greatest compliment is to share it with a friend.
0:47:57 So fire off that text message.
0:48:02 You might benefit from adding the $1 product challenge to their business until next time.
0:48:04 Let’s go out there and make something happen.
0:48:06 and I’ll catch you in the next edition
0:48:07 of the Side Hustle Show.