0:00:02 This is the piggyback principle
0:00:04 why it’s easier to fill demand
0:00:06 than to create it from scratch.
0:00:07 What’s up, what’s up, Nick Loper here.
0:00:09 Welcome to “The Scientist” show.
0:00:11 We’re part of the entrepreneur podcast network
0:00:13 because you’re already an entrepreneur,
0:00:14 even if right now your day job
0:00:16 just happens to be your only job.
0:00:18 We got an awesome case study for you today,
0:00:21 one that combines a couple common strategies on the show
0:00:23 to build a really strong business.
0:00:25 Those strategies are number one,
0:00:28 what we call SWAS, software with service.
0:00:31 This is offering help or consulting or guidance
0:00:34 or templates that support a popular software product.
0:00:36 See lots of examples of that over the years.
0:00:38 And number two is what we call the piggyback principle.
0:00:40 My kids will tell you it’s a lot easier
0:00:43 to get a piggyback ride if you do all the walking yourself.
0:00:46 The same is true in business and this strategy allows you
0:00:50 to draft on the popularity of that software product
0:00:53 to catch that rising tide to get better, faster results
0:00:55 with less effort.
0:00:58 And in this episode, we learn exactly how to do that
0:00:59 in our niche.
0:01:01 To help illustrate this is Kristy De Silva
0:01:04 from De SilvaLife.com.
0:01:07 De SilvaLife helps small businesses set up
0:01:10 and integrate two popular software tools,
0:01:14 HoneyBook and ClickUp into their workflow and operations,
0:01:17 earning thousands of dollars per project along the way.
0:01:19 Kristy, welcome to “The Side Hustle Show.”
0:01:20 – Thank you so much for having me, Nick.
0:01:21 I’m super excited to be here.
0:01:22 – Me as well.
0:01:24 Stick around, we’ll learn how Kristy-
0:01:27 is those customers from never having heard of her
0:01:29 all the way down to paying customers
0:01:30 and what that journey looks like.
0:01:33 But this business has started in a unique way.
0:01:35 So it’s 2020.
0:01:39 Kristy is a nanny and personal assistant in New York City.
0:01:41 And as you know, all of a sudden all that in-person work
0:01:45 suddenly gets grinding to a halt.
0:01:47 And she’s saying, well, I gotta make some changes here.
0:01:49 Take me back to that time period.
0:01:51 – My husband and I were both living and working
0:01:54 in New York City in a teeny tiny apartment.
0:01:56 So he was working from home remote.
0:02:00 And I, my job was kind of on pause because it was in-person.
0:02:02 I was just keeping myself busy.
0:02:07 And my sister-in-law introduced me to a program
0:02:09 called the Virtual Savvy.
0:02:12 And I know Abby Ashley has been on this show before.
0:02:14 Thank you, Abby, for all your expertise.
0:02:16 I would not be here without you today.
0:02:20 So basically my sister-in-law, Tais, was friends,
0:02:21 personal friends with Abby.
0:02:23 And she told me, she’s like, listen,
0:02:25 I don’t even know what Abby totally does,
0:02:28 but it’s something with virtual assisting.
0:02:30 And I know you’re a personal assistant.
0:02:33 So I bet there’s some correlation there.
0:02:34 You should check it out.
0:02:37 And what really got me was the testimonials
0:02:38 for the Virtual Savvy.
0:02:40 I was like, if all these people can do it
0:02:42 and they can replace their nine to five,
0:02:45 they can work from home, I could do this too.
0:02:46 Why couldn’t I do it?
0:02:48 So it was a huge leap of faith.
0:02:50 I will say it was the biggest investment
0:02:52 I had ever made on myself,
0:02:54 kind of feeling like it was a gamble.
0:02:55 Whenever you’re investing,
0:02:58 especially in the beginning of your business,
0:03:01 you’re like, totally, is this thing gonna work?
0:03:04 And so I ended up diving in head first.
0:03:05 I’m like, you know what?
0:03:06 No better time than the present.
0:03:08 I’m literally not working.
0:03:11 I can dedicate all my time to doing this course,
0:03:12 giving it a shot.
0:03:16 I totally felt nervous and embarrassed to tell people,
0:03:18 like, hey, I’m trying out this thing
0:03:20 and I have no idea if it’s gonna work,
0:03:21 but I’m gonna go for it.
0:03:22 Then the first 90 days,
0:03:26 I ended up replacing my New York City salary
0:03:28 with virtual assisting work.
0:03:30 – Well, that’s a really funny connection
0:03:32 that I didn’t know existed
0:03:35 because we met through the 2X coaching program.
0:03:37 And I didn’t know that it went back to Abby.
0:03:40 She’s been doing the Virtual Savvy for years and years.
0:03:44 We can link up her previous episodes on the show.
0:03:46 I think that’s really exciting.
0:03:47 So now, starting out,
0:03:51 are you niche down to these project management tools early on?
0:03:54 Or early on, I’ll just take whatever clients I can get.
0:03:56 I can help you with virtual admin type of tasks.
0:03:58 – Yeah, so I started in June of 2020
0:04:00 and I started everyone,
0:04:02 as you get into the online business world,
0:04:05 as you guys know, there are so many voices and opinions
0:04:07 out there of like, you need to do this
0:04:08 and you shouldn’t do this.
0:04:11 And so as I started diving deeper,
0:04:14 everyone was saying niche down, niche down, niche down.
0:04:17 And I was like, but I don’t even know what I like to do yet.
0:04:19 So I took some time
0:04:21 and I did a little bit of everything.
0:04:22 So I was just a virtual assistant.
0:04:27 I did like admin, content creation, systems, all the things.
0:04:30 And after about six months, I would say,
0:04:33 before the end of the year was over, I decided,
0:04:37 you know what, I don’t wanna do everything for everyone.
0:04:39 And that’s when I decided
0:04:42 to invest in my first business coach
0:04:44 where our first session together,
0:04:47 basically she had me just like word vomit,
0:04:51 all the things that I loved about my job
0:04:53 and did not love about my job.
0:04:57 And we very quickly realized at the end of that session
0:04:59 that what I was really passionate about
0:05:01 was getting people organized.
0:05:05 And the pathway to do that was through systems.
0:05:07 So at this point for my clients,
0:05:09 I had already set up my two favorite tools,
0:05:10 ClickUp and HoneyBook.
0:05:12 I’ve also set up different CRMs
0:05:14 and project management tools for people,
0:05:17 but I felt very strongly that these were the tools
0:05:19 that I wanted to master.
0:05:22 And at the time, I’ll be honest with you, Nick,
0:05:27 I actually didn’t see many people in the online space
0:05:32 like just niching down into specific tools
0:05:34 and being like pros.
0:05:36 They had ClickUp Consulting at the time
0:05:38 was a very small group of people.
0:05:40 HoneyBook Pros wasn’t even a thing.
0:05:44 I was one of the first like 12 HoneyBook Pros.
0:05:48 And so it felt like again, this like leap of faith,
0:05:51 like starting as leap of faith, continuing,
0:05:53 you’re constantly having to believe in yourself,
0:05:56 but then niching and taking such a drastic turn
0:06:00 was definitely like a mindset thing of like,
0:06:02 I feel like this is the right thing,
0:06:04 but I hope that it pays off.
0:06:05 – And it feels risky.
0:06:07 ‘Cause you’re like, well, am I gonna cut off
0:06:10 all this other business that I’m perfectly qualified to do?
0:06:11 I know I can get it done,
0:06:13 I can deliver good results for clients,
0:06:16 but I think there’s some greater pastors over here
0:06:18 and it is challenging.
0:06:21 And I like a couple of things that you almost have to go
0:06:25 broad in a service like this early on to identify,
0:06:26 well, what really lights you up
0:06:29 or where do you kind of have your special secret sauce
0:06:32 that you can apply and then follow that path
0:06:34 or keep pursuing that.
0:06:37 And then the other thing is being on the earlier side.
0:06:38 You don’t need to be bleeding edge,
0:06:42 but if you can be one of the first 12 people to offer this,
0:06:45 obviously these are up and come tools now,
0:06:47 but maybe this was earlier days.
0:06:49 And we saw the same example with Paul Miners
0:06:52 doing this with Asana and Pipe Drive,
0:06:55 in the world of software a generation ago,
0:06:57 different iterations of these types of tools.
0:07:00 But if you can be on the earlier side of that,
0:07:01 start to create content around it,
0:07:05 you can really carve out an interesting space for yourself.
0:07:06 Before we do that though,
0:07:07 I think people will be curious ’cause we kind of glossed over,
0:07:09 hey, I replaced my income in 90 days.
0:07:11 I’d be remiss if I didn’t ask,
0:07:13 how’d you get those first customers?
0:07:16 – There were two main ways that I got my first customers.
0:07:19 The first, which feels even more intimidating and scary
0:07:22 is reaching out to your personal connections.
0:07:24 And what also feels scary about this
0:07:27 is because there are so many like MLMs
0:07:30 and pyramid teams out there that you’re like,
0:07:32 okay, are people gonna think I’m a scam?
0:07:35 But number one, if you’re not a scammy person
0:07:37 and you have, I’m reaching out to people
0:07:41 that I actually have legitimate connections with.
0:07:42 And so just reaching out to them being like,
0:07:44 hey, I’m starting this new thing.
0:07:46 It’s basically just like a personal assistant,
0:07:47 but I’m virtual.
0:07:50 If you’re interested or you know anyone else that is,
0:07:52 feel free to reach out.
0:07:54 And so I actually, my first client ever
0:07:59 was a personal connection that had a garage door business.
0:08:02 And he was my first client.
0:08:05 Then a lot of the majority of my other clients
0:08:08 getting started came from Facebook groups,
0:08:12 which is really ironic because I’m now going back
0:08:14 to that strategy for top of funnel,
0:08:16 like starting to engage more in Facebook groups
0:08:19 in terms of like answering questions.
0:08:23 So I would go into Facebook groups, Abbey has one.
0:08:24 That’s the virtual Savvies.
0:08:25 And it’s a free public Facebook group
0:08:27 where like people are literally like,
0:08:29 I’m searching for a virtual assistant.
0:08:31 So, yes, that’s awesome
0:08:33 because people are literally searching for it,
0:08:34 but then you also have to figure out
0:08:36 how to make yourself stand out.
0:08:38 So there’s a lot of competition in there.
0:08:41 And then the third way is really just starting
0:08:44 having a marketing, a solid marketing strategy
0:08:46 and plan from the beginning.
0:08:49 And so I would say those were the three main ways.
0:08:53 Obviously the marketing strategy because I was brand new.
0:08:55 I’ll never forget the day I started to sell the life
0:08:57 on my Instagram with zero followers.
0:09:00 And, you know, it was just something
0:09:02 that I had to flex that muscle in practice.
0:09:05 And eventually I started, you know,
0:09:07 becoming a name in the industry and virtual assisting.
0:09:11 And then eventually in systems and Honey Book and ClickUp.
0:09:14 – Okay, yeah, trying to put yourself out there.
0:09:15 And it’s kind of intimidating.
0:09:18 ‘Cause at that stage, I feel like I personally committed
0:09:20 to doing this thing, but it’s still intimidating
0:09:23 to start to spread the word, tell other people about it.
0:09:24 And even if it’s not a direct connection,
0:09:28 you’re trying to plant the seed in your network’s mind
0:09:30 that this is what you do now.
0:09:33 Like your previous identity about what I did for work,
0:09:35 you set that aside and say, well, now I need,
0:09:37 if I need virtual assistant support,
0:09:38 you know, Christy is my person.
0:09:39 And it may be, I don’t need it,
0:09:41 but maybe my network’s network needs it.
0:09:43 Like, oh, somebody else I’m talking to.
0:09:44 Oh, I know somebody.
0:09:45 I ought to connect you with Christy.
0:09:49 And as we’ve seen that play out where it’s like, you know,
0:09:51 ’cause it’s kind of like to your MLM point.
0:09:52 Like, yeah, it kind of feels a little skeezy
0:09:55 trying to sell directly to your immediate network,
0:09:58 but it’s more just occupying a little bit of mindshare.
0:10:01 It’s like, oh, if I need somebody for web design,
0:10:04 or if I need somebody to, you know, wash windows,
0:10:05 it’s like, well, who do you know?
0:10:06 Right? It’s kind of like this,
0:10:08 how the word of mouth can start to spread.
0:10:09 So now we’re niching down.
0:10:12 We’re doing the software with the service.
0:10:15 Hey, we’re going to be your ClickUp specialist.
0:10:17 We’re going to be your Honey Book specialist.
0:10:18 What happens there?
0:10:21 We’re like, how do you kind of make that transition
0:10:24 or start to get customers in that space?
0:10:27 ‘Cause the other benefit to this too is,
0:10:29 well, now instead of just being general admin,
0:10:32 I don’t know, maybe you’re at 25, 30 bucks an hour,
0:10:35 all of a sudden, by being really specialized,
0:10:38 you can command a lot better rates too.
0:10:39 – Yeah, 100%.
0:10:41 And I won’t sugarcoat it, Nick.
0:10:45 That transition, although I knew it was the right one,
0:10:48 it felt like so difficult in the time.
0:10:50 Because like you mentioned before,
0:10:51 like I had really good relationships
0:10:53 with my current clients.
0:10:56 So it honestly felt like it was a breakup
0:10:57 when I was telling them
0:10:59 that I was moving in a different direction.
0:11:01 Now, every single client,
0:11:04 because they’re amazing people, were so supportive of me
0:11:07 and have sent so much business my way as well,
0:11:10 since that, you know, transition.
0:11:13 But there definitely was a dip in income
0:11:15 as I was making that transition.
0:11:19 Obviously, I look back now and the ROI is so much greater.
0:11:22 And you’re right, you can really expand your services
0:11:23 and your offerings.
0:11:25 And I know we’ll get into that in a little bit
0:11:26 about like where we are now
0:11:29 and our different income streams.
0:11:32 But aside from it being a mindset block of like,
0:11:34 you know, are people gonna resonate with me now
0:11:37 because they loved following my VA journey,
0:11:40 but also then having that,
0:11:44 a lot of people don’t talk about the internal battle
0:11:47 of when you transition and people still know you
0:11:51 as an awesome VA and they’re in your DMs being like,
0:11:54 “Hey, I know you used to do this.
0:11:55 I have a client who really needs it.
0:11:56 Will you still do it?”
0:11:59 And when you’re in that moment of being like,
0:12:01 I don’t want to say no,
0:12:03 but also I’m trying to go in this new direction.
0:12:07 Like it’s hard as a people pleaser especially.
0:12:08 It’s really hard.
0:12:10 And so I had to stand my ground and be like,
0:12:13 no, this is the direction I’m going in.
0:12:15 And so basically how I started
0:12:18 was really just becoming a pro at these tools.
0:12:21 And I started my rates a lot lower
0:12:23 than other people may have been charging
0:12:28 because I’m like, I’m not like a top tier expert yet,
0:12:32 but I know that I know a lot more about these products
0:12:34 than the people that I’m serving
0:12:36 and these softwares than the people that I’m serving.
0:12:41 And so I was still able to charge more technically hourly,
0:12:44 except a lot of our stuff is flat right now.
0:12:48 For example, yeah, I’m making about 30 to 40 bucks an hour
0:12:51 as a VA where now I charge $300 an hour
0:12:52 for a strategy session.
0:12:55 Like so crazy that jump,
0:12:59 but now being an expert in this for four years,
0:13:02 it’s really cool to see where we’ve been able to go.
0:13:03 – That’s worth pausing on.
0:13:05 That’s the power of niching down
0:13:07 and becoming an expert on the thing.
0:13:09 – More with Christie in just a moment,
0:13:10 including the free marketing channel
0:13:14 that drives the majority of quality leads today.
0:13:15 Right after this.
0:13:16 You know, the “Science Hustle” show
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0:13:20 And one of the fastest ways to improve your bottom line
0:13:22 is to play the substitution game.
0:13:25 How it works is you find lower cost alternatives
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0:13:29 And if you can do it for a recurring expense,
0:13:32 you just scored yourself some reverse passive income.
0:13:35 That’s the cash you’re no longer spending every month.
0:13:38 One of those areas is your wireless provider.
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0:14:40 on your online Shopify store.
0:14:43 But did you know Shopify powers in person selling too?
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0:15:46 – So yeah, so I basically just started,
0:15:48 you know, with the power of social media,
0:15:53 it’s really cool how I also, my background is in math
0:15:54 and I was gonna be a math teacher.
0:15:56 And so I love educating.
0:15:58 I’m very passionate about education.
0:15:59 So basically on my marketing channels,
0:16:02 I just started educating about these tools.
0:16:04 I didn’t have to go on and be like,
0:16:07 buy my consulting services, let me do a clickup build for you.
0:16:09 All I had to do was start proving
0:16:12 that I knew a lot about these softwares
0:16:14 and then people would trust me and be like,
0:16:17 okay, I just learned five things from you
0:16:19 by scrolling on your Instagram.
0:16:21 Now can you just do this thing for me?
0:16:24 And so I started out with a lot of like solopreneurs
0:16:27 and smaller businesses, setting up their clickups,
0:16:29 getting a lot of experience.
0:16:31 And then eventually it just started getting
0:16:35 to bigger and bigger and bigger agencies and companies.
0:16:36 – There’s almost a built-in demand.
0:16:38 ‘Cause you open up Notion, you open up Asana,
0:16:40 you open up ClickUp, and it’s like,
0:16:41 I know this is gonna be super powerful,
0:16:43 but it’s kind of like blank.
0:16:45 And I don’t know what to do with this.
0:16:48 And so then you naturally go to YouTube
0:16:51 or like, you know, how to set this up for a content business,
0:16:53 how to set this up for an agency business.
0:16:56 And you might find educational content like Christie’s.
0:17:01 So it sounds like that was the initial play there
0:17:05 where we’re just kind of do tutorial demo type of content.
0:17:08 Do you have an example of something that hit early on?
0:17:12 – Yeah, so actually we decided to launch a YouTube channel
0:17:15 and that was a huge turning point for DL
0:17:19 because YouTube is obviously long form video content
0:17:21 and people are extremely problem aware.
0:17:23 Like they’re like, how do I do this with ClickUp?
0:17:24 How do I do this with HoneyBook?
0:17:28 And so our first YouTube video that ever took off,
0:17:30 that’s still one of our highest ranking,
0:17:34 is five ClickUp dashboards that will change your business.
0:17:37 It was cool to see like, ’cause the first few videos were like,
0:17:39 here’s how we can help you.
0:17:41 What’s the difference between a CRM
0:17:43 and a project management tool?
0:17:45 You know, beginner’s guide to HoneyBook and ClickUp,
0:17:48 which those still do well as well.
0:17:50 But then the more specific we started to get with it,
0:17:52 like, okay, these five ClickUp dashboards
0:17:54 that will change your business.
0:17:57 Even ones like specific ClickUp automations
0:18:00 or how to create a content calendar in ClickUp
0:18:02 or things like that.
0:18:05 How to run your agency in HoneyBook.
0:18:07 Those are things that perform really well
0:18:10 because people are searching for that exact thing.
0:18:12 – Yeah, and once they find you,
0:18:16 this person is, you know, the answer to my exact search query.
0:18:17 They’re the answer to my prayers.
0:18:20 And so they watch your thing, you build trust
0:18:24 and eventually they come and hire you.
0:18:27 So you’re kind of giving them the do-it-yourself version,
0:18:29 but then maybe it’s still complicated enough
0:18:32 where like, maybe it’s worthwhile
0:18:34 to just hire a Christian or team.
0:18:37 – Yup, 100% and it’s so funny.
0:18:39 We get the majority of our leads from YouTube
0:18:42 and I will say like probably 80% of the time
0:18:43 people come on, they’re like,
0:18:44 oh my gosh, it’s so nice to meet you.
0:18:46 I’ve been subscribed to your channels
0:18:48 for like two or three years
0:18:50 and they feel like they already know me,
0:18:52 even though I have no idea who they are.
0:18:57 Yet, it’s funny because it’s a huge thing in sales
0:18:59 is that like, no like in trust factor
0:19:01 and we already solved that piece
0:19:03 before we even ever get on a sales call.
0:19:07 – Yeah, as you know, you’re showing your face, your voice.
0:19:09 Yeah, you build a lot of trust that way.
0:19:13 Deciding what type of content to make
0:19:16 any sort of like keyword research tools
0:19:18 or search volume that goes into it.
0:19:20 I’m just looking at like broad Google searches,
0:19:23 400,000 monthly searches for ClickUp
0:19:25 and then 60,000 for HoneyBook.
0:19:28 And so there’s some decent like top level search volume
0:19:31 but then I imagine it kind of goes into that long tail
0:19:33 for like how to run your agency in HoneyBook,
0:19:35 like more specific type of searches.
0:19:38 – We actually really love vidIQ.
0:19:40 We were using TubeBuddy for a while
0:19:43 and then we started getting into vidIQ.
0:19:45 They have some really cool things with like AI
0:19:48 and their platform is a bit more robust, I feel.
0:19:53 And so we look at our channel
0:19:55 and we do quarterly content planning.
0:19:57 We do yearly at a high level and then we do quarterly
0:20:01 and we try to do like themed content like themed months
0:20:04 and now we’re starting to get into like different series
0:20:08 and we’ll look at what performed best on our channels
0:20:09 or like what’s ranking highest.
0:20:12 Like for example, our ClickUp dashboards video
0:20:14 was ranking highest for like a long time
0:20:18 are how to use HoneyBook and ClickUp like yearly videos
0:20:21 like in 2024, those always do really well as well.
0:20:22 So we’re like, okay,
0:20:24 we’ll always do those in the beginning of the year
0:20:26 but we’ll look back at our previous content,
0:20:29 what’s highly ranking knowing people want more of that.
0:20:33 And then we’ll really just start doing long tail keyword
0:20:38 research in vidIQ, kind of going down a rabbit hole
0:20:40 of like, okay, how are these ranking
0:20:45 in terms of search volume and things like that.
0:20:47 – Is there a minimum search volume
0:20:49 that is interesting to you
0:20:51 or worthwhile to make the video about?
0:20:53 – It’s more like how it scores in vidIQ.
0:20:57 I think we’re looking over like a 60 or 70 ranking.
0:21:01 – Which is a combination of volume and competitiveness.
0:21:03 – Yeah, yeah, exactly.
0:21:06 And so we also, speaking of competitiveness,
0:21:09 we’ll definitely do competitor research as well
0:21:12 because we have like a few competitors.
0:21:15 We’re very niche, but we absolutely have competitors.
0:21:18 And so we’ll look at their channels,
0:21:20 what’s ranking high on their channels.
0:21:24 And by no means do we ever just copy their video
0:21:25 but we’ll be like, okay, cool,
0:21:28 they did something on this specific topic.
0:21:33 How can we do something similar but have our own spin?
0:21:35 And so we’ll do that research as well.
0:21:36 – Oh, that makes sense.
0:21:37 – Yeah.
0:21:38 – And then this is, you know,
0:21:39 I probably have talked about this before,
0:21:41 but I would come up with this content idea
0:21:43 and it would be something super broad,
0:21:45 like ways to make money on the internet or something.
0:21:47 And then of course, Google that.
0:21:50 And shoot, there’s already a dozen people
0:21:51 have already written this article.
0:21:53 I guess I better go back to the drawing board
0:21:54 and come up with another topic.
0:21:56 No, no, no, no, that’s still viable.
0:21:58 You can still get traffic and eyeballs
0:21:59 and visitors and customers from this.
0:22:01 You just have to put your own unique spin on.
0:22:03 You got to make something that’s different and better
0:22:04 than what’s already out there.
0:22:06 And that was a little bit of a shift here.
0:22:07 And it sounds like the same thing.
0:22:11 Okay, we can look at the competitor channels.
0:22:14 We can see what’s working for them and say, okay.
0:22:16 And just trying to reverse engineer that.
0:22:17 And you know, I’ve followed, you know,
0:22:21 the same people doing like a software review
0:22:25 or your tutorial type of videos, like for fill in the blanks.
0:22:26 I was like, well, I don’t use that tool
0:22:27 so I can’t make that one.
0:22:30 But I could do the same thing for this app or this software.
0:22:32 It’s like, here’s a template that clearly worked
0:22:34 and kind of fill in the blanks.
0:22:35 – Exactly.
0:22:37 We also will absolutely use AI.
0:22:40 So like chat GPT, when we’re content planning,
0:22:41 we’ll be like, we’re working on a series
0:22:44 for click up for agencies.
0:22:49 Help us grab some like highly SEO ranking topics
0:22:50 for these videos.
0:22:51 And then it’ll spit out a bunch of things.
0:22:54 Then we know our ideal client more than anyone.
0:22:56 So we can guide it in the right direction,
0:22:59 but we’ll also just like use it to ideate
0:23:03 and get inspiration from as well is super helpful.
0:23:05 – Do you feel the need to publish consistently?
0:23:07 Or is like, look, we got this stuff out there.
0:23:08 It’s evergreen.
0:23:09 We got a consistent lead flow.
0:23:12 Or do you have to keep kind of feeding the machine?
0:23:14 – Right now we feel like it’s pertinent
0:23:15 to keep feeding the machine.
0:23:17 Just so we’re like constantly ranking.
0:23:20 I mean, we have some videos that are like upwards
0:23:22 of like 40, 50,000 views.
0:23:25 So those are still bringing us like warm leads
0:23:27 and like hot traffic.
0:23:32 But what we’re seeing now is that we niched into systems
0:23:34 and HoneyBook and click up,
0:23:37 but we’re actually niching a little bit further
0:23:41 in the recent months into seven to eight figure agencies.
0:23:44 So we have a lot of really good content out there
0:23:47 that’s serving the broad audience of people
0:23:49 looking for a click up in HoneyBook,
0:23:50 how to get started, things like that.
0:23:53 But now we really wanna start focusing our content
0:23:56 on seven to eight figure agencies
0:23:59 and where they’re having their specific troubles
0:24:02 and hurdles in their business.
0:24:06 And then relating it to, okay, you’re having this issue.
0:24:09 Then how do we solve that with HoneyBook, with click up?
0:24:13 And so I think that’s where we could still be getting leads
0:24:17 from YouTube, even if we stopped our content right now,
0:24:20 our content machine, but I think we wanna start tailoring it
0:24:23 more to the ideal client that we wanna bring in.
0:24:26 And so we wanna start feeding that machine.
0:24:27 – Yeah, it would be a different,
0:24:29 the existing content was to get your business,
0:24:32 but it’s not necessarily the client base
0:24:34 or the target customer that you wanna be going after
0:24:35 or going forward, if I’m hearing that right.
0:24:38 – Exactly, and that’s something we’ve even been working with
0:24:40 our marketing agency that we’ve been partnered with
0:24:42 for like over three years, is she’s like, okay,
0:24:46 now that we’re serving this new market
0:24:49 and this new ideal client, we have to go deeper.
0:24:52 Like we have a lot of really good,
0:24:54 like broad topics on our YouTube,
0:24:57 but now it’s time to dive deeper into it,
0:25:00 start using more strategies and more verbiage
0:25:04 that those agencies will know exactly and what they want.
0:25:05 Like even in terms of marketing,
0:25:08 instead of being like elevate your client experience
0:25:12 with HoneyBook, it’ll be like increase your sales conversion
0:25:17 from 30 to 55% by optimizing your client flow in HoneyBook.
0:25:22 A lot more specific, which I feel like agencies
0:25:24 will relate to that content more.
0:25:26 – Yeah, well, I know you’ve got the case studies
0:25:28 and testimonials to prove it too.
0:25:29 – Exactly, yeah.
0:25:31 – Here’s what we’re able to do.
0:25:33 Couple things that I wanted to highlight there.
0:25:37 Hey, the best performing videos, 40 to 50,000 views,
0:25:41 we did an episode on like YouTube automation and AI.
0:25:44 It’s like you really had to hit the viral lottery
0:25:46 where like hundreds of thousands or millions of views
0:25:48 to make this pay for itself.
0:25:49 And the whole model was like,
0:25:52 I recognize that a lot of these aren’t gonna hit,
0:25:53 but the one or two that does,
0:25:55 it’s gonna pay for all the production costs
0:25:58 on everything else and it’s still gonna turn a profit.
0:26:00 You don’t need to go viral in this case
0:26:01 because the traffic is so well qualified,
0:26:04 nobody’s gonna watch how to run your agency in HoneyBook
0:26:06 if they’re not trying to figure out
0:26:07 how to run their agency in HoneyBook.
0:26:10 It’s like it’s a completely different YouTube ballgame
0:26:15 where very, very well qualified viewership.
0:26:17 The second thing that stood out was, okay,
0:26:19 well, now we wanna niche down to these seven,
0:26:21 eight figure agencies.
0:26:23 Obviously they’re bringing in tons of revenue,
0:26:26 so they have more hopefully disposable income
0:26:28 to spend on a service like the Silver Life.
0:26:32 And also as you get better at serving those,
0:26:35 like the same issues and problems probably crop up
0:26:36 over and over again.
0:26:38 So it almost, I imagine it becomes faster
0:26:42 to deliver the service than it would if you’re serving,
0:26:44 every type of different business customer
0:26:46 or small business, solo,preneur type of person.
0:26:49 So it’s like not only command better rates,
0:26:52 but you can deliver it faster so the margins improve.
0:26:55 But I wanna talk about this transition
0:26:59 or any specific scripting or language
0:27:01 that you found effective to transition
0:27:03 from viewer to customer.
0:27:05 Like, hey, we just helped you learn how to do this.
0:27:08 If you wanna set up a free consulting call,
0:27:13 like what’s the progression from a viewer to a lead
0:27:15 to a prospect to a customer?
0:27:18 – We have a lot of different offers in our offer suite.
0:27:21 We have our one-on-one consulting services,
0:27:24 which is obviously like the highest top tier.
0:27:27 All the way down to courses,
0:27:29 then we have products and templates,
0:27:32 and then we have freebies on-demand webinars,
0:27:33 things like that.
0:27:36 So what we have been doing in the past,
0:27:39 and I’ll be honest about what we’re kinda testing
0:27:44 and trialing now, is we were told that we should always
0:27:49 have this YouTube North Star of a call to action.
0:27:51 Like every video, you’re sending them
0:27:53 towards a specific call to action.
0:27:57 So for a while, we were always just promoting
0:28:00 our on-demand webinar, ’cause then through that,
0:28:01 the evergreen funnel,
0:28:04 then we could be funneling them down to our courses.
0:28:08 But now with this new ITA,
0:28:12 we’re really just focusing more on that call to action
0:28:16 being like, okay, so I hope that video was helpful,
0:28:18 and you learned a little bit about how to manage
0:28:21 your employees and freelancers and click up.
0:28:24 We’ve helped hundreds of agencies do this
0:28:26 and optimize their agency operations,
0:28:29 so if you’re ready to do that,
0:28:32 let’s grab a call and talk about how we can help you.
0:28:34 And so it’s more so like opening the door,
0:28:36 and then in our description,
0:28:40 we have like, contact us here to work one-on-one,
0:28:42 and then we also have like free resources and things
0:28:45 to get them on our email list as well.
0:28:47 So we’re pointing them to the description,
0:28:49 so that if they’re ready to like,
0:28:51 book a call with us, they can.
0:28:54 But we definitely want to get them opted
0:28:58 into our free resources as well to get them on our list
0:29:00 and continue to nurture them.
0:29:02 – Okay, so one quick definition,
0:29:04 ITA is Ideal Target Audience.
0:29:05 – Yep.
0:29:06 – Okay, initially it was like,
0:29:08 hey, let’s go check out this evergreen webinar
0:29:12 and follow whatever,
0:29:14 choose your own webinar structure
0:29:16 that leads to clients and sales.
0:29:20 But now there’s a shift to maybe our Ideal Target Audience
0:29:22 don’t want to watch an hour-long webinar,
0:29:24 they just want to get cut to the chase.
0:29:26 Like, can you help me or not?
0:29:28 And so now you can book a call directly,
0:29:32 or you download the lead magnet opt-in,
0:29:35 what are the effective lead magnets for you today?
0:29:38 – We’re going through currently like a revamp
0:29:40 of our website and everything like that.
0:29:43 And so we’ll probably be shifting those down a little bit,
0:29:46 but we have our free webinars,
0:29:47 both for ClickUp and HoneyBook.
0:29:52 And then we have a CRM toolkit for HoneyBook.
0:29:55 And then we have the ClickUp 101 guide
0:29:57 and our simple ClickUp system,
0:30:00 which is a free ClickUp template.
0:30:03 So over time, since we’ve had these rubies out for a while,
0:30:07 I think our ClickUp 101 guide is still the highest ranking,
0:30:09 but our simple ClickUp system,
0:30:11 because it’s a free template,
0:30:14 is definitely probably getting the most traction
0:30:15 on a monthly basis.
0:30:17 – Okay, but it sounds like,
0:30:22 if they’re a million or $10 million agency,
0:30:25 the simple system may not be applicable, it may–
0:30:27 – Had to present, yeah.
0:30:30 So that’s where this new niche
0:30:33 and target audience we’re going towards,
0:30:36 we really have to evaluate everything and be like,
0:30:37 okay, maybe they don’t need that.
0:30:41 Maybe they need like a team handbook or something different
0:30:44 that’s like pointing them in the direction of ClickUp.
0:30:48 And the whole thing is with this,
0:30:49 it gets very strategic
0:30:52 because we don’t wanna overwhelm them,
0:30:53 but there are systems,
0:30:57 what we’ve figured is simple systems are great
0:31:01 for smaller businesses, solarpreneurs, et cetera,
0:31:05 but agencies, these like seven to eight figure agencies,
0:31:09 they need something that’s robust, but easy to use.
0:31:14 And so that’s a very fine line that we’re walking
0:31:17 of like, how do we not overwhelm them
0:31:19 with you could do this and you could do this
0:31:20 and you can do this and be like,
0:31:22 but we’ll guide you in the direction,
0:31:26 it shouldn’t feel hard, it should not be to adopt.
0:31:28 – Do you find that customers are coming in
0:31:30 with a project management system or a CRM
0:31:31 like already in place?
0:31:33 Like are they already using these tools?
0:31:36 And they’re like, there’s gotta be a better way.
0:31:39 Or they like, help us, help us get organized.
0:31:40 You know, the business has grown so fast,
0:31:43 we gotta figure out a better systemized way
0:31:44 to manage everything.
0:31:47 – I would say about 75% of our clients
0:31:48 are already on the system.
0:31:51 So they’re on HoneyBook, on ClickUp, they come to us
0:31:53 and they say, my systems are now the bottleneck.
0:31:56 I know that I wanna grow and scale this company,
0:31:58 but the systems are gonna break.
0:32:00 A lot of people too are like, they haven’t broken yet,
0:32:03 but they’re going too soon as we continue to expand.
0:32:05 So can you help us make them scalable?
0:32:08 And then about 25% of people come in and they say,
0:32:10 you know, we’re doing everything on Google Sheets
0:32:13 or email or Slack or whatever it is.
0:32:18 And we’re ready to commit to ClickUp or HoneyBook.
0:32:20 And we wanna pro to help us set it up in the right way.
0:32:23 So we’re not fumbling our way through it.
0:32:24 – Got it.
0:32:26 In the case of the lead magnet freebies,
0:32:30 the ClickUp 101 guide, the simple templates,
0:32:32 what does the email sequence look like
0:32:34 after somebody opts in for that?
0:32:36 – Yeah, so then we’ll put them through
0:32:37 our welcome email sequence,
0:32:41 which basically introduces them to our offers
0:32:43 and our stack of services.
0:32:45 So I think it’s about six or seven emails.
0:32:48 It goes through, you know, who we are as to sell the life.
0:32:50 Then it goes through, you know,
0:32:52 if you’re interested in ClickUp, here are resources.
0:32:54 If you’re interested in HoneyBook, here are resources.
0:32:57 And then at the very end, it goes through, okay,
0:33:02 how does it look like for us to support you?
0:33:03 Is it through our free content
0:33:05 and subscribing to our YouTube channel?
0:33:07 Is it through joining our system school
0:33:09 and going through the DIY course?
0:33:11 Or are you ready to invest
0:33:13 and have us just do everything for you?
0:33:17 And so that’s kind of the journey that they go through now.
0:33:21 I think in the future, as we’re kind of fine tuning
0:33:24 all of these freebies and sales funnels,
0:33:29 we’ll probably have certain freebies go towards like,
0:33:32 promoting the course and templates
0:33:34 and certain freebies potentially,
0:33:37 then promoting like let’s get on a sales call type of thing.
0:33:40 – And do you ever lose sleep over,
0:33:43 well, what happens when ClickUp goes away
0:33:44 and you’ve built this whole reputation
0:33:48 and this content library around this
0:33:52 and then for whatever reason, the company gets bought,
0:33:54 the tool gets shut down.
0:33:55 Like, I don’t know.
0:33:58 Like I could see that being the counterpoint to being like,
0:34:00 well, I don’t want to marry myself to this one tool
0:34:03 ’cause what happens if it doesn’t exist anymore?
0:34:04 – I actually love this question, Nick,
0:34:07 because we get it all the time.
0:34:09 And even my husband has asked me this question in the past,
0:34:11 like, are we making the right decision
0:34:14 by just like niching into one specific thing?
0:34:19 And it’s actually not about the tool itself and the software.
0:34:23 It’s about the system and the framework
0:34:27 that we’ve created to set up the workflows
0:34:29 in this specific tool.
0:34:31 So we actually have a framework
0:34:34 that we’ve developed over the last four years
0:34:36 that if ClickUp shut down today,
0:34:40 we could take all of that and implement a brand new tool.
0:34:42 Now, would it take a lot of time and energy
0:34:44 and probably tears?
0:34:48 Yes, but my job wouldn’t be obsolete.
0:34:51 Like I have all of that information
0:34:54 that we can just easily implement in a new tool.
0:34:56 – Okay, that makes sense.
0:34:57 Well, I guess the solution is the same,
0:34:59 but the tool that you use to implement it
0:35:02 may be different and you can apply
0:35:05 that the same work flows to something else.
0:35:07 Yes, a painful transition period,
0:35:08 but it doesn’t have to be like,
0:35:10 well, I guess that’s it, it’s game over.
0:35:11 – Exactly.
0:35:13 – Anything else on the YouTube front here
0:35:15 from driving traffic and views
0:35:17 to generating leads and customers?
0:35:19 Anything else that we missed?
0:35:22 – Something that is super important about these
0:35:26 is you wanna know where you’re leading these people
0:35:31 and you want to have that idea of where they’re going
0:35:32 and how to capture them.
0:35:35 So this is where systems come into play
0:35:37 of having yourself organized in the backend
0:35:40 because if you start taking off on YouTube,
0:35:42 even if you have like a small following,
0:35:46 which we still have, I think only about like 6,000 subscribers,
0:35:49 but it’s a very strong community of people
0:35:52 that are very interested in just what we have,
0:35:55 you wanna make sure that you have a place to capture
0:35:57 those leads and nurture them
0:35:59 and direct them in a specific direction.
0:36:03 So I would say just making sure, for example,
0:36:06 we use Active Campaign to store all of our leads
0:36:09 in terms of freebies and welcome email sequence
0:36:12 and nurturing and then we use Honey Book as our CRM
0:36:13 for people that are like,
0:36:15 I’m ready to hop on a sales call with you.
0:36:16 I know that you’re the person
0:36:19 that can help me implement this tool
0:36:22 and so then we have a place for them to go,
0:36:24 book a call, submit their information.
0:36:26 So I think that’s a huge key piece
0:36:27 is like a lot of people
0:36:28 when you’re just getting started
0:36:30 with a new marketing channel,
0:36:33 you’re so focused on what does that process look like
0:36:35 and how am I gonna make that content
0:36:37 go viral and do all these things,
0:36:40 but you wanna make sure that your backend
0:36:43 is actually set up to gather those contacts,
0:36:47 nurture them and then handle that growth when it comes.
0:36:48 – Right, ’cause you don’t need to go viral.
0:36:51 If you get 100 well qualified people watching this thing,
0:36:53 certain percentage of people are gonna reach out
0:36:56 by having that consistent call to action
0:36:57 and having something in place
0:37:01 to guide those prospects into being customers
0:37:03 is gotta be thought through like from,
0:37:05 this is a weak point, am I like,
0:37:07 I like making YouTube videos,
0:37:08 I like making that content,
0:37:10 but at the end of the video it’s like,
0:37:13 subscribe for more money-making ideas.
0:37:16 Like there’s not a really concerted effort,
0:37:18 like go check out the Evergreen webinar
0:37:21 on how to 10X your side hustle or something,
0:37:23 but being upfront and introducing yourself,
0:37:27 hey, we are consultant specialists on this topic
0:37:29 and today we’re gonna cover X, Y, Z
0:37:31 and then at the end you can also say,
0:37:33 hey, if you wanna learn more,
0:37:34 go download the template, if you wanna learn more,
0:37:36 hey, let’s book a call.
0:37:38 Like just being consistent, whatever the stat is,
0:37:40 people need to be hitting the head with the same message
0:37:42 five, six, seven times before they’re like,
0:37:43 I should really take a bump on that
0:37:45 and go one step deeper.
0:37:47 – You always wanna have a call to action
0:37:50 on top of being like, like and subscribe,
0:37:52 put on your alerts like a hundred percent.
0:37:55 We say that like two to three times a video,
0:37:56 but on top of that at the very end,
0:37:58 it’s like, what are their next steps?
0:38:01 People need to be guided in the right direction.
0:38:05 And so even if that is a, you know,
0:38:07 if you want help implementing this in a custom way
0:38:11 and you’re ready to X, Y, Z,
0:38:13 the link to book a call with us is in the description.
0:38:14 – Gotcha.
0:38:17 And that goes through Honey Book to schedule that stuff.
0:38:18 – Yep.
0:38:20 – More with Christie in just a moment,
0:38:22 including the other marketing channels
0:38:24 that are driving sales and the different pieces
0:38:27 of the De Silva Life revenue pie right after this.
0:38:32 You mentioned going back to the Facebook well
0:38:34 for potential clients.
0:38:36 This is like groups of business owners.
0:38:39 This is groups specific to these software tools.
0:38:40 What’s going on there?
0:38:43 – Yeah, so right now it’s specific to the software tools.
0:38:46 So what we just started implementing again
0:38:49 is going back into the Click Uppers Facebook group
0:38:52 and going and just answering people’s questions.
0:38:55 No call to action, like, hey, book a call with me.
0:38:57 It’s literally just me going in there.
0:38:59 I’m looking at their question.
0:39:01 I’m creating a 60 second loom video
0:39:04 that solves their problem and they’re getting to know me
0:39:06 as that person solving their problem.
0:39:09 And so, you know, we literally just started
0:39:12 this last week again and we’ve already had two people reach
0:39:15 out and be like, hey, can I grab a one-on-one call with you?
0:39:18 Do you do this in a custom way?
0:39:22 And it’s crazy to see how it works where if you go in
0:39:25 with the mindset of like, I’m just gonna go help people
0:39:27 and build that connection with them,
0:39:30 you see that return right away.
0:39:31 – And it’s interesting ’cause it’s like, yes,
0:39:34 I’m answering this one person’s question
0:39:36 and it feels like it’s really worthwhile
0:39:38 to take the time to do that.
0:39:40 But everybody else in the group has the same access
0:39:42 of the ability to see that answer.
0:39:45 And it’s like, it seems like it’s one-to-one,
0:39:46 but it’s really one-to-many.
0:39:48 And even if it’s not the original poster
0:39:50 that ends up reaching out, it’s like, hey, I saw your answer,
0:39:53 you know, so I think that one potentially more scalable
0:39:54 than it initially seems.
0:39:57 – And that is actually what happened with one
0:39:59 of the two people that reached out.
0:40:01 Someone messaged me, I had a message request
0:40:03 and they were like, hey, I saw your loom video
0:40:05 in the Click Uppers group.
0:40:06 Do you do this in a custom way?
0:40:08 We’re looking for someone to optimize our Click Up.
0:40:12 This person was not the person that asked that question
0:40:14 and they just watched my loom video.
0:40:18 And the thing is too, is what I found
0:40:21 in the Click Uppers group, giving away my little secret here,
0:40:25 I went in there and realized that everyone,
0:40:28 you can absolutely see people promoting their services,
0:40:29 which people should be.
0:40:33 But in the responses to someone’s question,
0:40:36 everyone is giving written or screenshot feedback.
0:40:39 I’m like, how can I be different and go the extra mile?
0:40:41 I’m gonna record a 60-second loom video.
0:40:43 And I’ve already seen that pay off
0:40:45 because I’m a visual learner,
0:40:47 especially with things like softwares,
0:40:50 like I need to see someone do it for some reason.
0:40:54 Like the text doesn’t translate to my brain as quickly.
0:40:56 And so I’m like, let’s see if this works.
0:40:58 And so far, it’s been working.
0:40:59 – So far, so good.
0:41:01 All right, so we’ve got YouTube, we’ve got the Facebook.
0:41:05 And then you mentioned Instagram as well.
0:41:10 It looks like we’re a little over 5,000 followers on Instagram.
0:41:14 So this is interesting where I think of Instagram
0:41:18 as like pretty pictures or like a day in the life type of stuff.
0:41:22 But it’s like similar educational content over here.
0:41:23 What’s going, what’s working over there?
0:41:27 – We have been doing Instagram since day one
0:41:30 all the way back from the VA days.
0:41:32 And it still really works for us.
0:41:35 So Instagram, I feel like is one of the tools
0:41:40 that, to be honest, is the hardest to scale
0:41:42 ’cause I feel like they’re always changing the algorithm
0:41:45 and like, oh, you need to post reels
0:41:46 then everyone starts posting reels.
0:41:48 And they’re like, actually, we’re doing carousels again,
0:41:49 like post carousels.
0:41:52 And so you have to kind of be in with the trends,
0:41:54 but also at the same time,
0:41:57 like if you do something that you’re known for,
0:42:00 you can keep doing that and just like it’s gonna work.
0:42:03 And so with Instagram,
0:42:06 what we’ve been doing is just obviously educating
0:42:08 and doing reels and carousels on different features
0:42:11 of ClickUp and HoneyBook and as I mentioned,
0:42:14 going more into the agency route as well.
0:42:16 But then we also have, you know, fun things
0:42:19 that that shows my personality or team’s personality
0:42:22 and goes through our personal journey
0:42:24 of scaling our agency as well.
0:42:26 So I think that will also really resonate
0:42:28 with our ideal client of like,
0:42:30 we’ve been able to scale our agency
0:42:33 and here’s how we run our agency with these systems
0:42:35 and here’s how you can do it too.
0:42:38 – Okay, got it.
0:42:39 We got an example.
0:42:40 It’s like four things to automate in ClickUp
0:42:44 is the carousel post and there’s no call to action
0:42:45 in the graphics themselves.
0:42:48 The call to action is in the captions,
0:42:48 it’s in the description.
0:42:51 You can drop a comment below or shoot me a DM
0:42:53 if you’re ready to take your efficiency to the next level.
0:42:57 Let’s chat about how we can make ClickUp work harder for you.
0:43:00 And so for anybody who comments,
0:43:02 is there like a manual outreach,
0:43:04 somebody on your team is trying to engage
0:43:06 with these people, what does that look like?
0:43:09 – Yeah, so most of our call to actions for Instagram
0:43:12 are using many chat, which is like amazing.
0:43:15 I love this tool where you can comment a keyword
0:43:16 and then it can reply back.
0:43:21 So that definitely boosts the engagement on our Instagram.
0:43:25 So at least once a week we’ll have the carousel or caption
0:43:29 or whatever say, comment teamwork
0:43:31 and we’ll send you this week’s YouTube video.
0:43:33 So then many chat we’ll go ahead and be like,
0:43:34 thanks for commenting teamwork.
0:43:37 If you wanna dive deeper into this topic,
0:43:38 here’s this week’s YouTube video
0:43:41 and it’ll send them to them via DM.
0:43:41 – Got it.
0:43:42 – So that’s your many chat,
0:43:44 but definitely when there are ones that are like,
0:43:47 if you’re ready to take it to the next level,
0:43:51 those will then they’ll comment and then I’ll reach out
0:43:54 and then be like, hey, what are you struggling with?
0:43:55 Let’s chat about it.
0:43:57 How can we help you tell me a little bit more
0:43:58 about your company?
0:44:01 So I would say probably 90% of the call to actions
0:44:04 are responded through many chat automatically.
0:44:05 – Okay.
0:44:09 – And then after that, the other 10% would be me manually.
0:44:12 And then another thing I’m considering with many chat too
0:44:16 is having kind of like a follow-up sequence,
0:44:17 maybe like a couple of days later,
0:44:19 like, hey, did you check out the resource?
0:44:20 Do you have any questions?
0:44:24 And then kind of opening up that conversation again.
0:44:28 – Yeah, that’s a cool way to do it without having to go in
0:44:30 and reply to everybody manually.
0:44:33 One thing that I think is interesting about Instagram
0:44:37 today is you, and it could be good or bad,
0:44:38 depending on your perspective,
0:44:43 but they seem to, if your target audience
0:44:48 is people who are interested in productivity and systems,
0:44:50 they don’t need to be following you
0:44:52 to get served up your content anymore.
0:44:55 If it has been proven to be engaging to you,
0:44:57 maybe a small subset of your followers,
0:45:00 Instagram can push it out into the feed of other people
0:45:02 it thinks are gonna engage with it.
0:45:05 And I think that’s interesting for a small account
0:45:08 to be able to grow your reach in that way.
0:45:10 And it’s in half, probably two thirds of my feed,
0:45:12 it’s like stuff with people I don’t follow,
0:45:14 but it’s like, oh, shoot, they gotta be pegged.
0:45:15 This is interesting.
0:45:16 – Yep.
0:45:19 – And it’s like, oh, stop, stop, stop, get out of here.
0:45:21 – I did not subscribe to this.
0:45:22 – Right, right.
0:45:25 I guess it gives hope to people with small followings in that.
0:45:27 You don’t necessarily need that early on.
0:45:31 If you can create engaging content on a specific topic,
0:45:33 people, you know, the algorithm will tend to push that out.
0:45:34 – 100%.
0:45:36 And even like talking about small following,
0:45:39 like that is all vanity metrics.
0:45:43 You could have $100,000 and be making like no money per month
0:45:46 if it’s all just vanity metrics
0:45:48 and you’re not pointing people in the right direction.
0:45:53 Like you want to know how your content is converting
0:45:56 where these people are coming from
0:45:58 and like where it’s worth your time and effort,
0:45:59 even in my case, my money,
0:46:01 because we’re actually paying people
0:46:05 to keep these systems and these marketing channels running.
0:46:07 Don’t get caught up in the small following thing
0:46:09 because you could consider me having a small following
0:46:11 of 5,000 on Instagram,
0:46:13 about like 6,000 subscribers on YouTube.
0:46:15 Do I wish I had 100,000?
0:46:16 Yeah, totally.
0:46:18 But if I was still making the same amount of money
0:46:20 and I’m not nurturing them,
0:46:22 it doesn’t matter at the end of the day.
0:46:24 – At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter.
0:46:29 On the revenue side, obviously you’ve got the done for you
0:46:31 consulting the high ticket,
0:46:34 just hand over the keys, we’ll build this all for you.
0:46:36 And the prices are public on thesilvalife.com
0:46:38 which I think is interesting just because you know,
0:46:40 always there’s a common to be like,
0:46:41 well, book a book a consultation.
0:46:43 And you know, I was like, well, shoot, if I have to ask,
0:46:44 I probably can’t afford it.
0:46:46 So I like that it’s upfront
0:46:48 and it’s going to pre-qualify as people in a way.
0:46:50 Or it’s like, okay, I’m not even going to get on the call
0:46:52 if I can’t afford that.
0:46:53 But if you look at that and say,
0:46:55 yeah, that’s worth it to not have to do it myself.
0:46:57 Sure, I think that’s interesting.
0:47:01 You’ve got some like digital product template stuff
0:47:02 that’s for sale.
0:47:05 And then there’s like an online course.
0:47:07 Can you give me a sense of the revenue pie,
0:47:10 like the breakdown between these different offerings?
0:47:11 – It gets a little like crazy
0:47:14 because we have different services and offers
0:47:17 and then we have two totally separate softwares.
0:47:19 And so we have our ClickUp services
0:47:21 and we have our Honeywok services.
0:47:24 Then it breaks down for each of these.
0:47:27 We have consulting one-on-one services
0:47:28 which are the highest ticket.
0:47:32 Then we have our courses and our templates.
0:47:36 So our ClickUp consulting is about,
0:47:40 I would say like 30%.
0:47:42 Our Honeywok consulting revenue,
0:47:45 like one-on-one is about 30%.
0:47:50 Our courses and templates are about 30%.
0:47:53 And then that other 10% is things
0:47:57 like affiliate revenue, guest-speakings, partnerships,
0:47:58 things like that.
0:48:00 So it’s a pretty even split
0:48:03 between Honeywok and ClickUp consultings.
0:48:06 That’s being the biggest driver and revenue generation.
0:48:09 Then our courses and templates.
0:48:12 And then we have those kind of like other categories.
0:48:15 – Okay, are you able to get your reseller rights
0:48:18 or affiliate partnerships with the software themselves
0:48:19 or there’s other tools that you’re recommending
0:48:20 to customers?
0:48:24 – Yeah, so we have our highest affiliate driver
0:48:25 right now is Honeywok.
0:48:27 They have an amazing referral program.
0:48:30 We can get up to like a $300 payout
0:48:32 for different people that sign up.
0:48:35 And then we have a affiliate partnership
0:48:37 with ClickUp as well.
0:48:39 And then other tools we recommend too,
0:48:43 but that’s like a much lower revenue generator obviously
0:48:46 because a lot of our affiliate revenue
0:48:47 also comes from YouTube,
0:48:50 which is completely passive, which is awesome.
0:48:52 – Yeah, and I guess that if the majority of your clients
0:48:53 are already using these tools,
0:48:55 this is a little bit higher in the funnel, so to speak,
0:48:59 where maybe it’s broad level Honeywok tutorial,
0:49:02 it’s Honeywok versus competitor A,
0:49:03 Honeywok versus competitor B,
0:49:05 like people who are trying to figure out,
0:49:06 is this even right for me?
0:49:08 And if it is, I sign up through our referral link.
0:49:09 – Exactly.
0:49:11 – What’s a day in the life?
0:49:14 Like, it sounds like a lot of one-on-one consulting,
0:49:16 a lot of client relationships.
0:49:17 I mentioned having a team,
0:49:19 like how much is it you doing this stuff?
0:49:21 – I’m obviously a very organized person.
0:49:23 I’m an avid time blocker.
0:49:25 So every day kind of has a life of its own,
0:49:28 but my week is themed into time blocks.
0:49:32 So Tuesday, Thursday are primarily call days,
0:49:33 like client call days.
0:49:35 And so on those client call days,
0:49:39 I could have upwards of like seven, eight calls in one day,
0:49:41 just like the whole day stacked.
0:49:45 And those could be a mix of sales calls, you know,
0:49:49 kickoff calls, training calls, checking calls,
0:49:52 one-on-one consultations and strategy sessions.
0:49:53 So those are about the mix.
0:49:55 And it could be for ClickUp or Honeybook.
0:49:57 I don’t really theme those days in terms of like,
0:49:59 okay, Tuesdays is just ClickUp calls.
0:50:00 – You got it, you got it.
0:50:01 – It’s just Honeybook.
0:50:04 But I do section chunks of like, okay,
0:50:07 from 10 to 12 will be just sales calls.
0:50:11 And then from one to five will be just client calls,
0:50:13 whether it’s a check-in or a kickoff
0:50:15 or something like that.
0:50:16 – Okay.
0:50:19 – Other days, like Wednesdays are my days
0:50:22 where I do like deep work for clients.
0:50:25 And then Monday, Fridays are really dedicated to team.
0:50:28 So we have team calls, we’re working on team initiatives,
0:50:31 our quarterly initiatives for marketing
0:50:34 and building our business, launching a new product,
0:50:34 things like that.
0:50:37 So does that answer your question?
0:50:40 – That’s helpful to hear that some of it is passive,
0:50:43 you know, client flow is relatively automated,
0:50:45 relatively hands-off, but there’s a lot of hours
0:50:47 that go into making this machine run.
0:50:49 – Yeah, 100%, especially right now.
0:50:51 And so we are an agency,
0:50:55 but I’m still heavily involved in certain aspects
0:50:56 of certain projects.
0:50:59 Like some services are really agency-fied
0:51:03 and I need to spend maybe like one or two hours total.
0:51:06 And then other ones I’m still more directly involved
0:51:10 as we continue to grow those offerings
0:51:12 and get me out of the driver’s seat.
0:51:16 – Do you find the expert trap
0:51:19 where customers see your face on the YouTube videos,
0:51:24 they see you on Instagram, they expect it to be you.
0:51:26 And you say, well, I’m the CEO here, I’m the boss.
0:51:30 I got, I trained my people to handle this for you.
0:51:32 Do you get any pushback on that?
0:51:33 – Oh, all the time.
0:51:36 So not really from current clients because,
0:51:39 and now let me say this too, for the Honey Book side,
0:51:44 it was really easy to agency-fy and streamline that service
0:51:48 because I’m not an expert copywriter,
0:51:49 I’m not an expert designer.
0:51:51 And those are two huge things
0:51:54 that come into these Honey Book and client flow builds.
0:51:57 So immediately when I brought in the team on that
0:52:01 and we kind of made that agency streamlined,
0:52:02 it was really easy to sell that.
0:52:03 Because I’m like, listen,
0:52:05 I’m gonna do the strategy and map out your client flow.
0:52:07 Then we have an amazing team behind us
0:52:10 that’s going to do the rest and make it all come to life.
0:52:11 And they’re like, awesome, cool.
0:52:14 So I was immediately able to actually deliver
0:52:19 a better product after making that service agency-fied.
0:52:23 Now the ClickUp one is a little bit harder
0:52:24 because it’s so technical.
0:52:27 It’s like my brainchild in a way.
0:52:31 But again, that really comes down to our clients.
0:52:34 They think they want me, but they want my brain.
0:52:36 They want my framework.
0:52:39 And so that’s what we translate to our clients.
0:52:43 And as long as you translate that from the beginning
0:52:47 of like, I’m still involved in this project right now anyway,
0:52:49 I’m still involved in this project.
0:52:50 And we’re gonna take care of you,
0:52:54 but here are the other two key players in this.
0:52:57 And then you start having them answering questions
0:52:58 and serving the clients.
0:52:59 They all of a sudden are like,
0:53:01 okay, everyone can help me here.
0:53:02 It doesn’t matter who’s helping me.
0:53:04 I know I’m gonna get helped.
0:53:05 – Yeah, that makes sense.
0:53:07 I mean, from the business owner standpoint,
0:53:08 of course it makes sense,
0:53:09 but from the client perspective, it’s like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
0:53:11 You know, I thought I was working with Christie,
0:53:13 and so it’s trying to make- – Oh, 100%.
0:53:17 – Try and get yourself out of certain roles
0:53:18 to create more content,
0:53:22 to think higher level strategy to do all this other stuff.
0:53:24 – We get asked that on sales calls all the time.
0:53:27 We’re like, okay, so who am I gonna be working with?
0:53:28 Is it you?
0:53:31 And I’m like, I will be lead in the project,
0:53:33 but you’ll also be working with our amazing team.
0:53:35 And I’ll name them and talk about their roles.
0:53:38 So right now, yes, I’ll give them that comfort
0:53:39 of I’m still involved.
0:53:41 Eventually I won’t be,
0:53:43 but again, it shouldn’t be an issue
0:53:44 because it’s gonna be like,
0:53:46 we’ve created this framework
0:53:48 that works for hundreds of agencies.
0:53:50 Now we’re just giving you the key.
0:53:52 – And especially if you’re serving agency clients,
0:53:53 they gotta understand,
0:53:55 hey, this isn’t a solo operation either.
0:53:56 – Yup.
0:53:58 – Well, it’s tosilvallife.com.
0:54:01 We’ll link up the YouTube channel as well.
0:54:03 We’ll link up Instagram as well.
0:54:04 What’s next for you?
0:54:05 Where do you wanna take this thing?
0:54:07 – Next for us is,
0:54:09 I talked a lot about, you know,
0:54:13 like our own agency is really day by day
0:54:16 getting me more and more out of the driver’s seat.
0:54:21 And we’re really working on building our offer suite.
0:54:23 We have some solid offers now,
0:54:24 but we’re actually launching a new offer
0:54:26 that we’re super excited about
0:54:28 called the ClickUp Agency Accelerator.
0:54:31 So that’s going into beta in the next month or so.
0:54:35 And the more and more we get our agency growing,
0:54:38 then I’m gonna be able to have more time
0:54:40 to dedicate to marketing
0:54:43 and creating more educational content and stuff like that.
0:54:44 So I’m excited for that.
0:54:46 – All right, so building out the office suite
0:54:49 and getting out of kind of the client fulfillment stuff
0:54:51 to focus on the higher level stuff.
0:54:53 – Exactly, yup.
0:54:54 – That’s the goal, cool.
0:54:55 Christy, this has been awesome.
0:54:56 I’m taking a ton of notes.
0:54:58 Lots of resources mentioned
0:55:00 that we can link up in the show notes as well.
0:55:03 Let’s wrap this thing up with your number one tip
0:55:04 for side hustle nation.
0:55:06 – I wanna kind of share my mantra
0:55:10 that I have stuck with for these past four years.
0:55:13 It was in the beginning of taking that initial leap.
0:55:17 And then I carry this through with me on the hard days,
0:55:21 on the good days, in these pivotal moments of feeling like,
0:55:23 oh my gosh, how am I gonna get through
0:55:25 this exact barrier in front of me?
0:55:27 You always think like, well, what if it doesn’t work?
0:55:29 Well, you know, I got into this point,
0:55:31 but what if I can’t go any farther?
0:55:33 But I’ve been able to reframe that.
0:55:36 And every time I think, what if it doesn’t work?
0:55:38 I then think, but what if it does?
0:55:40 What is on the other side of that?
0:55:42 What does that dream life look like?
0:55:43 What does it look?
0:55:45 Growing this business, being able to serve more people
0:55:48 and support these amazing team members.
0:55:51 And so if you’re having one of those moments like we all do,
0:55:53 just think what if it does work?
0:55:55 And that’s what really keeps me going.
0:55:56 – The important addition to that,
0:55:59 ’cause I love that we tend to focus a lot on the failure side.
0:55:59 Well, what if it doesn’t work?
0:56:02 Like, am I gonna have to, you know,
0:56:04 you know, go sleep on a friend’s couch?
0:56:06 Am I gonna have to go get another job?
0:56:07 What if it doesn’t work?
0:56:10 Like, it’s natural to focus on like the downside, right?
0:56:12 If you minimize that downside risk, you’re like,
0:56:15 okay, worst case scenario is not gonna be life threatening.
0:56:16 What if it does work?
0:56:18 And is that gonna be a win?
0:56:22 Like if I project out three, five years down the road,
0:56:24 am I gonna be materially better off?
0:56:27 Am I gonna be in a better place personally, financially?
0:56:28 What if it does work?
0:56:29 I think it’s really important to ask.
0:56:32 And we tend to focus on the negative side a little too much.
0:56:34 So look at the upside as well.
0:56:36 And make sure that you’re setting yourself up
0:56:38 for those wins.
0:56:39 We had Noah Kagan on the show.
0:56:41 One of his criteria was like,
0:56:43 could this be a million dollar business?
0:56:44 If not, why am I even looking at it?
0:56:47 Why is it even on the option list here?
0:56:48 So that’s the number one tip.
0:56:50 What if it does work?
0:56:51 Takeaways from me.
0:56:53 Obviously we’re talking about following the demand,
0:56:56 lots of search volume around these particular software tools.
0:56:59 Could you find something that you’re a relative expert in?
0:57:01 Could you become an expert in the thing
0:57:04 and build that library of educational content,
0:57:06 help people out on that
0:57:08 and have that consistent call to action?
0:57:10 It doesn’t take a huge following.
0:57:13 I think that’s probably the inspirational part.
0:57:14 Because anybody who’s watching this
0:57:17 is gonna get pretty well qualified lead.
0:57:19 You knit yourself down and become that expert.
0:57:22 You take inspiration from what’s working
0:57:23 in terms of the competitor’s content,
0:57:27 put your own unique spin on it, lots of inspiring stuff.
0:57:28 If you’re new to the show,
0:57:30 you’re wondering what to listen to next,
0:57:32 I wanna invite you to build a personalized playlist
0:57:34 of the Side Hustle Show episodes,
0:57:39 most relevant to you and your specific situation and goals.
0:57:41 All you gotta do is go to hustle.show,
0:57:43 answer a few short multiple choice questions,
0:57:44 you do it on your phone.
0:57:47 The little quiz will spit back out this cool curated playlist
0:57:50 based on your answers that you can add to your device,
0:57:50 you can learn what works,
0:57:52 you can go out and make some more money.
0:57:55 That’s hustle.show, we mentioned Abby Ashley
0:57:58 on the podcast previously, we’ll link up her episodes.
0:58:01 And Paul Miners, another example doing this
0:58:04 with Asana and Pipe Drive, very similar type of businesses.
0:58:05 Hey, I’m an Asana consultant,
0:58:07 and today we’re gonna learn how to do blah, blah, blah.
0:58:10 Fantastic model, feel free to blatantly rip this off
0:58:12 and apply this to whatever tool, right?
0:58:14 Like it is, the template is here.
0:58:16 It is for you to run with.
0:58:18 So big thanks to Christie for sharing her insight.
0:58:20 Big thanks to our sponsors
0:58:22 for helping make this content free for everyone.
0:58:25 You can hit up sidehustlenation.com/deals
0:58:28 for all the latest offers from our sponsors in one place.
0:58:30 Thank you for supporting the advertisers
0:58:31 that support the show.
0:58:32 That is it for me.
0:58:34 Thank you so much for tuning in.
0:58:35 If you’re finding value in the show,
0:58:38 the greatest compliment is to share it with a friend,
0:58:39 so fire off that text message.
0:58:41 Hey, you should totally do this
0:58:43 for filling the blank software tool.
0:58:45 Until next time, let’s go out there and make something happen
0:58:46 and I’ll catch you in the next edition
0:58:48 of the Side Hustle Show.
0:58:48 Hustle on.

0:00:03 13 ways to get paid for your opinion.
0:00:06 Yes, your opinion is worth something,
0:00:07 and actually, you get paid pretty well for it,
0:00:10 up to $50,000 a month in some cases,
0:00:13 but the most lucrative ways to get paid for your opinion
0:00:16 take more time and effort than simply entering our surveys.
0:00:17 What’s up, what’s up, Nick Loper here.
0:00:19 Welcome to The Science Hustle Show.
0:00:21 It’s the business podcast you can actually apply,
0:00:23 and today, I’m breaking down how to profit
0:00:26 from something we all have, opinions.
0:00:27 Now, we’re going roughly in order
0:00:29 from lowest paying to highest paying,
0:00:31 which is why you want to stick around to the end
0:00:34 to see how some people are making a great full-time living
0:00:35 from sharing theirs.
0:00:37 Number one is the one I just alluded to,
0:00:38 and that’s to take online surveys.
0:00:41 This is probably the easiest and fastest way
0:00:42 to get paid for your opinion.
0:00:45 It is what shows up on everybody’s lists
0:00:46 of ways to make extra money.
0:00:49 These are companies like Swagbucks, SurveyJunkie,
0:00:51 InboxDollars, they’re not going to make you rich,
0:00:52 but they are legit.
0:00:54 They’re an easy way to make extra money.
0:00:56 Plus, you can do them in your downtime,
0:00:58 like when you’re waiting in line or watching TV.
0:00:59 I’ll put direct referral links
0:01:01 to some of Side Hustle Nation’s favorites
0:01:03 in the show notes for this episode.
0:01:04 If you’re consistent with these,
0:01:07 hey, maybe it’s $30 to $100 a month.
0:01:10 Number two is to participate in market research
0:01:12 and paid focus groups.
0:01:15 These ones are always a fun side hustle for me,
0:01:16 and they pay significantly better
0:01:18 than typical online surveys.
0:01:20 In fact, the average compensation for the ones
0:01:22 that I’ve done is between $50 and $150 an hour.
0:01:24 $200, I think, was one of them.
0:01:26 Now, why would your opinion be worth so much?
0:01:29 And the reason for this is that companies
0:01:32 are using your feedback and guidance
0:01:35 to come up with new product ideas
0:01:37 or dictate the direction that they want to go
0:01:38 before they launch,
0:01:40 because it’s so much less expensive
0:01:42 to pay a few people a little bit of money
0:01:44 to get the product right upfront
0:01:46 than launching the wrong product
0:01:48 or with the wrong messaging
0:01:49 or with the wrong design or layout.
0:01:52 The downside to these is it’s hard
0:01:55 to get selected for the studies very often,
0:01:57 and that’s why you can’t really rely on it
0:01:58 as a source of side hustle income,
0:02:01 but it’s like fun extra money when it comes in.
0:02:04 I’ve got a full post on side hustle nation
0:02:06 where I break down the most popular companies
0:02:07 in this space,
0:02:08 but a couple favorites of mine
0:02:11 are user interviews and respondent.
0:02:13 So I’ll link up my full reviews
0:02:14 and direct referral links for those
0:02:16 in the show notes for this episode.
0:02:18 Number three is product testing,
0:02:18 and there’s a lot of companies
0:02:21 that will facilitate different product testing gigs.
0:02:24 One pretty well-established one is product report card.
0:02:26 They’ve been around since 2012.
0:02:28 They do product testing gigs.
0:02:29 They do paid surveys.
0:02:31 They do online focus groups.
0:02:34 The best paying tests that I found
0:02:37 are for these in-home product tests,
0:02:39 and then also the remote interviews and focus groups.
0:02:43 Sometimes in the 75 to $150 an hour range,
0:02:44 great little side gig.
0:02:45 Again, probably can’t count on it
0:02:47 to be a reliable source of income,
0:02:48 but when those gigs come through,
0:02:50 and if you like testing out new products,
0:02:52 could be a fun one to play around with.
0:02:54 Number four is to test websites,
0:02:57 and this is through services like user testing
0:02:58 and Intellizum.
0:03:01 They’ll pay it to give your feedback on websites,
0:03:03 and similar to the market research and focus groups,
0:03:06 in that it’s easier, faster, and cheaper
0:03:10 to gather some screen-recorded, voice-recorded feedback
0:03:13 of somebody trying to navigate your new redesign
0:03:15 than it would be to launch,
0:03:16 especially if you’re a big company
0:03:18 and you’re getting a ton of traffic,
0:03:20 than to have a redesign that’s confusing.
0:03:22 People can’t find the button that they want to,
0:03:25 you would click on, and it’s so much more efficient to do that.
0:03:28 And for that reason, these companies will pay,
0:03:30 well, they’ll pay user testing and Intellizum,
0:03:31 they’ll pay them, and then they’ll share
0:03:35 a portion of the proceeds with testers like you and me,
0:03:38 typically like $10 for every 20-minute test or so,
0:03:41 so what’s that, $30 an hour?
0:03:43 But the downside is they do fill up really fast,
0:03:45 and so you kind of build up a reputation
0:03:48 on these platforms, somebody who provides good feedback,
0:03:49 and you’re gonna be quick on the trigger
0:03:51 when those tests do pop up.
0:03:55 Number five is mystery shopping,
0:03:58 and this is where you get to try new things,
0:03:59 maybe it’s a restaurant,
0:04:01 maybe it’s a hotel, even in some cases,
0:04:03 it’ll stay for free, get some extra money
0:04:04 for writing up a little report
0:04:06 about your experience and opinion.
0:04:08 I’ve done a little bit of this,
0:04:11 mostly through an app called Field Agent
0:04:14 where you would go to your local store,
0:04:15 the app makes it really easy to open up,
0:04:18 they show you the map where the nearby gigs are,
0:04:21 and sometimes you find three or four of them at one store,
0:04:26 typically it is a $3 to $10 gig on checking product displays,
0:04:29 verifying inventory levels,
0:04:31 taking pictures of that product in the store,
0:04:34 occasionally it’s trying out a new product
0:04:36 where they’ll reimburse you and give it a taste test
0:04:39 and write about your opinion for that.
0:04:40 Another one that’s hard to piece together
0:04:43 a consistent income on an app like Field Agent,
0:04:45 but it’s a fun way to make some money on shopping trips
0:04:47 you’re already making, it would be hard to justify
0:04:49 making a dedicated trip just to do that,
0:04:53 and one thing that is frustrating and challenging
0:04:56 is that sometimes the products that they want you to look for
0:04:58 simply aren’t in the store,
0:05:01 or for whatever reason they use this really hard
0:05:05 to decipher acronym about what the product actually is,
0:05:08 just they’re limited to two letter abbreviations,
0:05:09 I don’t know, it’s hard to describe,
0:05:11 but if you use the app, you know what I’m talking about,
0:05:12 so it’s frustrating to think you’re gonna make
0:05:15 an easy $15, $20, $25,
0:05:17 because you saw that several of these quick gigs
0:05:21 were listed at one store only to spend 15 minutes
0:05:23 wandering the aisles, trying to find the things
0:05:25 that they wanted you to take pictures of,
0:05:28 but I’ll link up my full Field Agent app review for more.
0:05:31 Now, for better paying mystery shopping gigs,
0:05:33 Jen Trinidad recommended starting
0:05:35 with the Industry Association.
0:05:39 – Hi, I’m Jen Trinidad of Budget Divas,
0:05:42 and I made about $2,000 a month
0:05:44 on average mystery shopping.
0:05:45 If you’re interested in mystery shopping,
0:05:50 the first place I would go to mspa-americas.org,
0:05:53 they are like the government agency
0:05:55 of mystery shopping, if you will,
0:06:00 so MSPA stands for the Mystery Shopping Providers Association,
0:06:02 and when you go onto that site,
0:06:07 you’ll have access to a list of mystery shopping providers
0:06:11 that have gone through this process
0:06:15 to become a legitimate mystery shopping company.
0:06:17 – Okay, so it’s primarily done
0:06:19 through these kind of directories
0:06:22 versus calling up Target or Walmart
0:06:25 and offering to go check on their employees.
0:06:27 – Yeah, so for someone who’s new at the bottom
0:06:29 of your screen on the right-hand side,
0:06:30 where it says congratulations,
0:06:33 it says Elite Member 2022,
0:06:36 and so those are the companies
0:06:40 that have been vetted through the MSPA,
0:06:45 and are the companies that people would wanna work with.
0:06:47 If you’re on this list,
0:06:50 that means that they’re a great company to work for
0:06:53 and mystery shoppers recommend them.
0:06:55 – All right, so that’s number five, mystery shopping.
0:06:58 Number six is one that not a lot of people know about.
0:06:59 I always felt like this was pretty cool
0:07:00 when I discovered this,
0:07:03 and that’s to write software reviews
0:07:06 through sites like G2 and Capterra.
0:07:08 They will occasionally pay you,
0:07:10 usually through Amazon gift cards
0:07:12 for honest software product reviews,
0:07:16 and I’ve received several of these worth over $100
0:07:18 in total for all the different tools
0:07:20 that I use to run my business,
0:07:22 and what is kind of the secret here
0:07:24 is you gotta leave your first review for free
0:07:27 because during that process,
0:07:29 they’ll ask you what other tools that you use.
0:07:31 What do you integrate active campaign with?
0:07:33 What do you integrate ConvertKit with?
0:07:36 And you could say, well, I’ll use it with lead pages
0:07:38 or I use it with this other tool
0:07:41 or I take payments with Stripe or something,
0:07:44 and then the secret is to not review those right away,
0:07:46 is wait for an email to come through
0:07:48 that offers a little gift card incentive.
0:07:51 Sometimes it’s $5, sometimes it’s 10, 15, 20,
0:07:53 depending on what they really wanna build up
0:07:55 a critical mass of reviews,
0:07:57 ’cause their game, you always peel back,
0:07:58 well, if somebody’s giving me money,
0:07:59 what’s in it for them, right?
0:08:00 Their game is to rank in Google
0:08:02 if somebody searches ConvertKit review,
0:08:04 active campaign review,
0:08:06 and they’ve crowdsourced hundreds and hundreds
0:08:07 of these things and they can say,
0:08:10 hey, on average, it’s worth a 4.2 star rating,
0:08:12 and hopefully somebody clicks our affiliate link
0:08:13 when they go and sign up.
0:08:15 And it’s a pretty smart business
0:08:17 ’cause then they’re gonna get recurring revenue
0:08:19 in the cases of a lot of these software companies
0:08:20 for the life of that customer.
0:08:23 And okay, so it was worthwhile to pay out a little bit
0:08:26 to start to collect those honest reviews.
0:08:28 So anyways, that’s kind of a fun one.
0:08:31 It’s not a ton of money, but it’s a kind of a fun one for me.
0:08:33 So that’s the first half of our list.
0:08:35 Number one, take online surveys.
0:08:37 Number two, market research and focus groups.
0:08:39 Number three is product testing.
0:08:41 Number four is to test websites.
0:08:43 Number five was mystery shopping.
0:08:46 And number six was to write software reviews.
0:08:49 We got lots more ways to monetize your opinion,
0:08:51 including some that could be worth thousands of dollars
0:08:54 a month or more right after this.
0:08:55 You know, the “Science Hustle” show
0:08:56 is here to help you make more money.
0:08:59 And one of the fastest ways to improve your bottom line
0:09:01 is to play the substitution game.
0:09:04 How it works is you find lower cost alternatives
0:09:05 to what you’re already spending money on.
0:09:08 And if you can do it for a recurring expense,
0:09:11 you just scored yourself some reverse passive income.
0:09:14 That’s the cash you’re no longer spending every month.
0:09:16 One of those areas is your wireless provider.
0:09:17 And that’s why I’m excited to partner
0:09:20 with Mint Mobile for this episode.
0:09:22 I made the switch to Mint Mobile back in 2019
0:09:24 and haven’t looked back.
0:09:27 Mint Mobile offers premium wireless for $15 a month
0:09:29 when you purchase a three month plan.
0:09:30 All plans come with high speed data
0:09:32 and unlimited talk and text delivered
0:09:35 on the nation’s largest 5G network.
0:09:36 You can use your own phone
0:09:39 with any Mint Mobile plan and keep your current phone number
0:09:41 and all your existing contacts.
0:09:42 To get this new customer offer
0:09:45 in your new three month premium wireless plan
0:09:46 for just 15 bucks a month,
0:09:50 go to mintmobile.com/sidehustle.
0:09:53 That’s mintmobile.com/sidehustle.
0:09:55 Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month
0:09:58 at mintmobile.com/sidehustle.
0:10:02 $45 upfront payment required equivalent to $15 per month.
0:10:05 New customers on first three month plan only
0:10:08 speeds slower above 40 gigabytes on unlimited plan.
0:10:11 Additional taxes, fees and restrictions apply.
0:10:13 See Mint Mobile for details.
0:10:16 It was Friday evening after work.
0:10:19 I was about 100 yards away from my condo in Atlanta.
0:10:22 I was almost home when this Pontiac Aztec
0:10:25 comes flying out of nowhere in the second lane.
0:10:26 I lay on the horn.
0:10:30 I brace for impact as it slams into my driver’s side door.
0:10:32 The airbag explodes, I go spinning
0:10:34 and a lot of things go through your mind
0:10:35 in that split second.
0:10:37 But in that moment, I don’t want,
0:10:39 is my family gonna be taken care of
0:10:41 to be one of those things that goes through yours?
0:10:43 Thankfully, I was okay after that crash,
0:10:45 but you never know when your time is up.
0:10:47 And that’s why I wanna invite side hustle show listeners
0:10:49 to set up your term coverage life insurance
0:10:51 with our sponsor Ladder today.
0:10:52 It takes just a few minutes.
0:10:53 You can even do it on your phone.
0:10:55 All you need to do is answer a few questions
0:10:58 about your health and then Ladder’s smart algorithms
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0:11:05 No doctors, no needles, no paperwork
0:11:08 when you’re applying for $3 million in coverage or less.
0:11:11 Ladder policies are issued by top rated insurers
0:11:14 with long proven histories of paying claims.
0:11:16 On top of that, there’s no hidden fees.
0:11:18 You can cancel at any time and you can get a full refund
0:11:21 if you change your mind in the first 30 days.
0:11:23 It’s no secret life insurance costs more
0:11:24 the longer you wait.
0:11:26 So now’s the time to cross this off your list.
0:11:29 Go to ladderlife.com/hustle today
0:11:31 to see if you’re instantly approved.
0:11:36 That’s L-A-D-D-E-R-LIFE.com/hustle.
0:11:39 Ladderlife.com/hustle and big thanks
0:11:41 to Ladder for sponsoring the show.
0:11:45 Number seven is one of the most buzzworthy side hustles
0:11:46 of the moment or of the year.
0:11:49 And that’s to review products on Amazon
0:11:51 through the Amazon influencer program.
0:11:53 Now, the reason for this is in most cases,
0:11:55 Amazon isn’t gonna pay you to leave written reviews
0:11:57 of the products you buy.
0:12:00 But if you’re accepted into the Amazon influencer program,
0:12:04 you can get paid to create short video product reviews.
0:12:06 And by that, I mean, they’re not gonna pay you up front,
0:12:08 but they are gonna pay you a little commission
0:12:13 if someone buys the product after watching your video.
0:12:15 It says, “Hey, thanks for helping us close that sale.
0:12:17 “We’ll sprinkle a couple percentage points your way.”
0:12:20 And the cool thing is you don’t have to drive any traffic.
0:12:22 Unlike traditional affiliate marketing
0:12:24 where you gotta have the SEO dialed in
0:12:27 or the email list dialed in or the big social following,
0:12:29 this is entirely driven on Amazon.
0:12:32 They post these videos on the product pages
0:12:34 as a way to help close more sales
0:12:36 or as a way to help educate customers
0:12:39 and kind of give the shopper an honest look
0:12:40 at what is this product like
0:12:43 in the hands of actual customers.
0:12:44 And it’s super easy.
0:12:46 Like for me, low production quality,
0:12:50 just shot with my phone, quick voiceover.
0:12:51 I’m usually not even on the camera.
0:12:53 It’s to me kind of pointing the,
0:12:54 sometimes my hands are in the picture,
0:12:57 demonstrating what the product is or how it works,
0:12:58 but super easy.
0:13:01 I made my first $9 after just a few days of uploading.
0:13:05 It’s like, this is probably the easiest $9 I’ve ever made.
0:13:07 You know, maybe around a hundred bucks a month on average
0:13:09 and probably more during Q4.
0:13:11 Very little effort, very passive
0:13:12 once these videos are uploaded.
0:13:14 Connected with other side hustlers
0:13:16 earning $2,000 a month or more,
0:13:18 sharing their opinions on Amazon products
0:13:19 through this program.
0:13:22 It’s become a really popular side hustle.
0:13:26 And when anything like that kind of takes off or blows up
0:13:29 or it’s perceived easy money to be had,
0:13:32 you get a lot of these early adopter gurus
0:13:33 pitching their course on the topic.
0:13:36 And maybe there is some secret sauce,
0:13:39 best practice strategy going on behind the scenes.
0:13:42 But the people I see having the most success with this
0:13:44 are simply the ones who upload the most videos,
0:13:46 who cast the widest net.
0:13:48 I remember meeting this woman
0:13:51 at a podcaster meetup in Seattle last summer
0:13:53 and sharing just how genuinely excited I was
0:13:55 about this new semi passive income stream of mine.
0:13:58 And it turned out she was doing it too.
0:13:58 And she was kind of like,
0:14:01 “Oh, you’re making $100. That’s cute.”
0:14:05 But she probably had 50 to 100 times more videos than I had.
0:14:08 And so she was making way more money per month.
0:14:08 And so I asked,
0:14:12 “Well, how did you get all those products to review?”
0:14:13 I feel like we’re just about tapped out
0:14:15 with the stuff that we have in the house
0:14:16 that’s from Amazon.
0:14:18 And she said, “Oh, that’s easy.”
0:14:19 When I ran out of stuff,
0:14:22 I just started reviewing the stuff at all my friends’ houses.
0:14:23 So that’s one way to solve the problem.
0:14:25 And I’ve heard from other Amazon influencers
0:14:27 that after a while,
0:14:30 brands will actually start sending you free products
0:14:31 to review,
0:14:33 which is another way to keep adding fuel to this fire.
0:14:36 Now, long-term, there’s lots of speculation over
0:14:39 is that low production quality iPhone video gonna cut it
0:14:42 if somebody else is creating a more YouTube style,
0:14:43 more professional appearance?
0:14:45 Like after all, which one is gonna get clicked on
0:14:48 on that product listing page on Amazon?
0:14:49 That’s hard to say,
0:14:51 but for the time being it’s still a pretty low barrier
0:14:52 to entry.
0:14:54 It is a program that you have to apply for.
0:14:58 They do want you to include your YouTube, Instagram,
0:14:59 TikTok.
0:15:00 They want some level of social following,
0:15:02 but they don’t say how much of a social following
0:15:04 that you need to have.
0:15:05 And importantly,
0:15:07 while I’m sure they would love for you to post your product
0:15:09 reviews onto your social media accounts,
0:15:11 that isn’t a requirement once you are accepted.
0:15:12 So that’s number seven,
0:15:14 the Amazon influencer program.
0:15:17 Number eight is another one that you might not have heard of.
0:15:21 And that’s to solve interesting problems.
0:15:24 There are sites like mindsumo.com
0:15:27 where these corporate companies come on
0:15:30 and ask kind of deeper questions.
0:15:33 They try to crowdsource some creativity,
0:15:35 some innovation, some answers.
0:15:36 And in exchange for that,
0:15:39 they’re offering rewards that sometimes will go
0:15:42 from 800 to 2,500 bucks.
0:15:43 So when I was browsing,
0:15:47 I saw questions like what’s the next big food trend
0:15:51 or propose a new way to learn about different cultures?
0:15:53 And so it kind of gets your creative juices flowing.
0:15:56 And if you have opinions about the things
0:15:57 that are being asked,
0:15:59 you can kind of throw your hat in the ring, so to speak,
0:16:01 or throw your ideas out there
0:16:03 and you have a shot at winning
0:16:05 some of these decent prizes there.
0:16:07 So that’s mindsumo.com.
0:16:09 There’s a few other ones that are similar,
0:16:11 but it’s kind of where these companies
0:16:14 are trying to crowdsource some ideas and innovation.
0:16:17 Number nine is freelance writing.
0:16:20 And even in the age of chat TPD,
0:16:21 there’s still a strong demand,
0:16:24 maybe even more so because of chat TPD,
0:16:26 there’s a strong demand for real human writers
0:16:28 who’ve got experience, who’ve got a voice,
0:16:31 they’ve got an opinion on what they’re writing about.
0:16:33 And these companies are hiring freelancers
0:16:35 for website content, for articles,
0:16:38 for email newsletters, for sales copy,
0:16:41 for brochures and training materials.
0:16:44 And freelance writers can command anywhere from 50
0:16:47 to $500 or more per article.
0:16:50 And you can connect with clients through your network,
0:16:53 you can connect with clients through Upwork or Fiverr
0:16:56 like Georgia Austin did in episode 479.
0:16:58 Here’s how she described getting her start.
0:17:00 – I wasn’t necessarily thinking anything
0:17:03 would come of this Fiverr account, but I made it
0:17:05 and I uploaded my first,
0:17:07 I think it was just one gig at the time.
0:17:09 It was a website content gig.
0:17:13 And to my surprise, I got my first order within two days.
0:17:16 So that was an amazing thing to happen.
0:17:17 I wasn’t expecting it.
0:17:20 I kind of expected it to take,
0:17:21 it’s a week to get my first order
0:17:24 or I wasn’t even expecting to get one at all.
0:17:26 And then I just kept getting orders
0:17:27 and kept getting orders.
0:17:30 I did that for about one or two months.
0:17:33 And then I got offered a full-time position
0:17:35 as a marketing manager in New York,
0:17:40 funnily enough, the same day as I got accepted to Fiverr Pro.
0:17:41 And obviously me being me at the time,
0:17:45 I was thinking, it’s gonna be more secure
0:17:48 and maybe I’ll have better career opportunities
0:17:49 if I take this full-time position.
0:17:50 So that’s what I did.
0:17:54 And then I did that for another eight, nine months.
0:17:57 And then the company sadly broke down a bit
0:17:58 because of the pandemic
0:18:01 or had a bit of a rough ride at the time.
0:18:02 I think they’re okay now, which is good.
0:18:05 But then I decided to turn my Fiverr Pro back on again.
0:18:07 And it literally just blew up.
0:18:10 I was not expecting it at all.
0:18:11 When March came around,
0:18:14 my revenue was tripling and tripling every month.
0:18:16 And with that, wizard of content was born.
0:18:18 So quite the journey.
0:18:19 – Sounds like it.
0:18:22 I wanna pause and go back to this initial Fiverr gig,
0:18:24 a website content gig.
0:18:27 There are hundreds, probably thousands
0:18:30 of other freelance writers on this platform.
0:18:33 How did you set up this gig to get eyeballs,
0:18:37 to get exposure, to get anybody paying attention to you,
0:18:39 to get an order within just a couple of days?
0:18:41 – So one thing I did do,
0:18:44 which I actually took this tip from Alex Pazulo.
0:18:46 I’m sure anyone who knows Fiverr knows Alex.
0:18:48 I know you know Alex as well.
0:18:52 So she gave a piece of advice for you
0:18:54 to get your friends and family to purchase your gig.
0:18:57 So obviously other prospective buyers
0:18:59 are really gonna put trust in people
0:19:01 who have a few five-star reviews.
0:19:04 So something that I knew would be really important
0:19:06 to gain that immediate trust.
0:19:09 So what I did is I did some example work
0:19:12 or practice pieces for my friends and family.
0:19:15 And on my two gigs that I had at the time,
0:19:18 I made sure I got five reviews on each gig.
0:19:22 So that really was, I think, the stepping stone
0:19:26 for me to be able to get more orders from real buyers.
0:19:28 So if anyone’s gonna create a Fiverr account,
0:19:32 I highly recommend that you do this strategy.
0:19:33 And it doesn’t have to be a fake order.
0:19:36 And I know that Fiverr, the internal team there,
0:19:38 they’re actually getting quite hot on this.
0:19:39 They know that people are doing this.
0:19:41 So they obviously want every transaction
0:19:43 to be as legitimate as possible
0:19:45 or only be legitimate transactions.
0:19:48 So I would definitely recommend that you do real work
0:19:49 for your friends and family.
0:19:52 Maybe your dad has a medical company
0:19:56 or your mom needs some blog written for her company,
0:19:58 anything, any friend or family member.
0:20:02 Get them to buy your gig, do the job,
0:20:03 and they can leave you a nice five-star review.
0:20:05 And then I can almost guarantee
0:20:08 that you’ll at least get one order come through pretty soon.
0:20:12 – Again, that’s Georgia Austin from episode 479.
0:20:13 At the time we recorded,
0:20:16 she was posting some huge sales numbers,
0:20:18 like up to $90,000 a month.
0:20:21 And she’d hired a team of writers to help deliver that work.
0:20:22 Now, as a freelance writer,
0:20:26 you’re typically following a content brief or outline.
0:20:27 But in most cases,
0:20:29 you’ll still be allowed to sprinkle in bits of your opinion
0:20:31 if the employer is open to it.
0:20:33 And they’ll give you some guidance on to,
0:20:35 as to what kind of tone that they’d like
0:20:36 the finished piece to have.
0:20:38 But that’s number nine, freelance writing.
0:20:40 Number 10 is to write a book.
0:20:42 This is one of my all-time favorite
0:20:44 and most passive side hustles.
0:20:46 And passive, I mean,
0:20:48 after the whole writing the book part, that is.
0:20:52 But my books share my opinion on topics like,
0:20:54 what are the most important items every website should have?
0:20:58 That’s like the small business website checklist from 2014,
0:20:59 I wanna say that was published.
0:21:01 I did how to work with virtual assistants,
0:21:03 starting way back in 2012,
0:21:05 opinion on how to start a side hustle,
0:21:07 like lots of books on this topic.
0:21:10 And over the last decade, that collection of titles
0:21:14 has earned over $80,000 in author royalties.
0:21:15 I can’t call myself a full-time author,
0:21:17 but it’s a fun way to get paid
0:21:21 to put your ideas and opinions out into the world.
0:21:22 That is number 10,
0:21:24 write a book or the self-publishing side hustle.
0:21:26 Number 11 is to start a newsletter.
0:21:28 So email newsletters,
0:21:30 another hot side hustle of the moment.
0:21:33 Low cost, you can eventually monetize with ads,
0:21:34 with paid subscriptions,
0:21:35 with your own products and services.
0:21:39 One fun newsletter and a very opinionated example
0:21:42 that I get is Cody Sanchez’s Contrarian Thinking,
0:21:46 which maybe has rebranded to business buyers.
0:21:47 I don’t know what it is now,
0:21:48 but it used to be Contrarian Thinking.
0:21:51 And in it, she breaks down topics like entrepreneurship,
0:21:54 buying businesses, alternative investments,
0:21:58 all through her quote unquote, Contrarian lens.
0:21:59 And here’s Cody explaining how you might come up
0:22:01 with your newsletter topic
0:22:04 and how she got her first few thousand subscribers.
0:22:06 I typically say to start with,
0:22:09 look for where do people ask you your opinion
0:22:11 on things consistently?
0:22:13 What would you do even if you weren’t getting paid for it?
0:22:16 What are the hobbies that you’d like to get into
0:22:17 and learn more about
0:22:19 and you’re okay sharing your journey on that?
0:22:21 What are you actually really, really good at
0:22:24 that you don’t have to think too much about doing?
0:22:25 And when you answer those four questions,
0:22:28 you’ll find a little short list of things
0:22:32 that you can create a newsletter or a products business
0:22:34 around based on your ideas or your experience.
0:22:35 And there’s plenty of people,
0:22:39 like my newsletters are basically all about building wealth
0:22:42 or building businesses in unconventional ways.
0:22:44 And I’m not saying that I have it all figured out.
0:22:46 My newsletters are usually me experimenting with it
0:22:47 as a former journalist.
0:22:50 I’m like, man, I think you could probably build a business
0:22:53 that makes 100K pretty quickly from an e-product.
0:22:56 Let’s try it, document how we did it
0:22:57 and then tell people how it turned out.
0:22:59 And so anybody could do that with anything
0:23:03 from cooking to incense sales to creating an app.
0:23:05 – Yeah, there’s lots of different ways to go here.
0:23:09 And as long as it’s welcomed in somebody’s inbox,
0:23:11 then people are likely to stick around.
0:23:13 People are likely to read it, to share it.
0:23:15 And tell me about getting this thing off the ground
0:23:18 ’cause everybody’s starting with day one, zero subscribers.
0:23:20 – We actually did a kind of a fun post,
0:23:23 which was zero to 10,000 subscribers.
0:23:24 And how did we get there?
0:23:26 And we did it within 30 days.
0:23:28 Like sort of what would those first 30 days be like
0:23:30 if you were to go from zero to 10?
0:23:33 And so there’s like a couple overarching themes.
0:23:37 Essentially, where you start is
0:23:38 with the people that you already know.
0:23:41 And so I think the most important thing
0:23:44 for anyone who’s starting a newsletter is for some reason,
0:23:46 I don’t know if you felt this when you first create something,
0:23:48 but it’s scary to share.
0:23:50 And so we post it on social media
0:23:51 because it’s sort of out there
0:23:54 and it’s not exactly in somebody’s face.
0:23:56 But what we did that I think will accelerate you
0:23:57 the quickest, your first,
0:23:59 let’s call it a couple hundred subscribers
0:24:02 is we pinged it to all of the people
0:24:05 that we actually know personally via email.
0:24:07 So, did a mail merge to my contacts,
0:24:09 which everybody in their Gmail,
0:24:10 whether you realize it or not,
0:24:11 you have a couple of thousand people
0:24:13 that you’ve been communicating with.
0:24:15 And we just allow them to opt in or not.
0:24:17 Hey, we built a business baby.
0:24:18 Do you wanna celebrate it?
0:24:20 Do you wanna come along for the ride?
0:24:21 Yes, no, maybe so.
0:24:24 Not pushy, no opt-ins,
0:24:26 but allow them to join the journey if they want to.
0:24:29 Because so few people actually follow through
0:24:30 and create things, you’ll be surprised.
0:24:32 I think we had maybe like a,
0:24:35 I don’t know, 30 or 40% of the people we sent that to
0:24:37 actually followed up.
0:24:38 And it’s funny, now I say we
0:24:41 ’cause there is another person that helps me on this,
0:24:42 but we in the beginning, it was me.
0:24:44 So I would start with that.
0:24:45 And then the second thing
0:24:49 that I think is really important to start doing is,
0:24:52 everybody has a couple of people in their lives
0:24:54 that are, I hate to use the word influencers,
0:24:56 but we could use the word centers of influence.
0:24:58 Maybe you don’t know a ton of Joe Rogan’s,
0:25:00 but maybe you know a couple of Joe Schmoes
0:25:03 who have a couple hundred people that listen to them
0:25:07 and who think that their ideas are worth sharing.
0:25:09 And so we kinda combed through myself
0:25:11 and actually made my husband do this too,
0:25:14 the people that we know who have some sort of following.
0:25:16 We just scrolled through our iPhone
0:25:17 and we looked through LinkedIn
0:25:20 and we pinged maybe 20, 25 different people
0:25:22 that were sort of friends of ours.
0:25:23 And then told them about this
0:25:25 and asked if they’d be willing to share it.
0:25:26 And could we share something
0:25:27 or do something to help in return?
0:25:31 And those two things really led to the biggest first,
0:25:34 let’s call it, a couple hundred thousand subscribers.
0:25:37 And then you layer on all the normal things, like–
0:25:40 – Couple hundred to a thousand, not a couple hundred thousand.
0:25:42 – Yes, no, no, no, not yet, one day.
0:25:44 – Now, Cody has obviously blown up
0:25:46 on social media since then,
0:25:49 but back in episode 419, four years ago,
0:25:51 she was in the early stages of her journey
0:25:53 as a center of the influence herself.
0:25:55 So, check it out if you wanna learn more
0:25:57 about how she grew and monetized the newsletter.
0:25:59 That is number 11 on this list,
0:26:01 the email newsletter side hustle, great way
0:26:03 to monetize your opinion.
0:26:05 Number 12 is to start a YouTube channel.
0:26:08 And the example that I wanna point you to here
0:26:10 is my buddy, Marcos Lattak,
0:26:13 runs the channel Whiteboard Finance at press time.
0:26:15 He’s closing in on a million subscribers,
0:26:16 but he’s been at it for several years,
0:26:19 so it’s not like an overnight type of success,
0:26:22 although there are some viral wins along the way.
0:26:24 But Marcos breaks down these complex
0:26:25 personal finance topics,
0:26:27 he gives his opinion on current money events,
0:26:30 and earns a healthy six figure income from home doing it.
0:26:34 And, well, you can definitely spend a lot of time and energy
0:26:37 to create a highly produced video.
0:26:40 Marcos’ videos are more about the content and information
0:26:42 than they are about dazzling visuals.
0:26:44 – If you wanna do something crazy cinematography-wise,
0:26:46 obviously it’s gonna take more time to edit
0:26:48 and it’s gonna take more effort.
0:26:50 Me, I stand in front of a Whiteboard,
0:26:52 and it’s almost like a lesson to a classroom.
0:26:53 A lot of people call me,
0:26:55 they say, “Oh, I wish you were my teacher in high school,
0:26:57 I wish you were my professor in college.”
0:26:59 You explain stuff better than they do.
0:27:01 My format is easy to edit
0:27:03 just because of the way I deliver my content.
0:27:04 So if you look at it,
0:27:07 it’s almost like a blog post or a blog article
0:27:08 turned into a video.
0:27:11 I have an intro, I have a body, I have a conclusion,
0:27:12 and that’s pretty much it.
0:27:14 I don’t move away from the Whiteboard.
0:27:15 Maybe I’ll do some stuff in the field,
0:27:17 but that’s very rare.
0:27:20 So my video editing process over the years
0:27:22 has become very streamlined
0:27:25 and it’s allowed me to basically hit record,
0:27:27 knock out the video, edit it.
0:27:30 I know exactly what I need to do, same subtitle,
0:27:33 same everything, same filters, same settings,
0:27:36 and I can knock out a video from literally outlining
0:27:39 to pushing it to YouTube live
0:27:42 in about, I’d say, three to four hours total.
0:27:44 – And once you have that video live,
0:27:47 it can have a really long lifespan.
0:27:50 Like, those videos can earn views and revenue for years
0:27:53 if it’s on an evergreen topic, which is really cool,
0:27:54 and that’s in sharp contrast
0:27:56 to almost all other social media.
0:27:59 Now lately, I’ve been playing around with Pictori.ai
0:28:03 to pull in hundreds of stock video clips for my videos.
0:28:06 This is a task that would have taken me days, probably,
0:28:08 or a human editor who knew what they were doing,
0:28:09 hours and hours to do,
0:28:11 and it does it in just a few minutes.
0:28:13 So that’s something that I’ve been enjoying
0:28:16 using this year, Pictori.ai.
0:28:18 I think I’ve got a special promo code
0:28:19 for Side Hustle Show listeners.
0:28:21 I can put in the show notes
0:28:23 if you wanna play around with that one as well.
0:28:24 But that’s number 12.
0:28:26 The 12th way to get paid for your opinion
0:28:29 is to share that opinion on YouTube bonus points
0:28:33 if you can do that in a channel around a dedicated topic,
0:28:34 like Side Hustles in my case
0:28:37 or personal finance in Marco’s case.
0:28:40 Number 13 is to build a website.
0:28:43 And this is my favorite way to get paid.
0:28:45 I’ve been doing it for 10, 15 plus years,
0:28:46 is to create this helpful website,
0:28:48 this library of helpful content.
0:28:50 This is like your online home base.
0:28:52 This could be SideHustleNation.com.
0:28:54 This could be the virtual assistant site
0:28:55 that I used to have,
0:28:57 less so with the original shoe business,
0:28:59 not a lot of opinionated content on there.
0:29:00 But it was like, hey,
0:29:01 you wanna find the best price?
0:29:02 In our opinion,
0:29:03 here’s where you can find the best price
0:29:05 on your next pair of shoes, right?
0:29:08 So every month, this is earning thousands of dollars,
0:29:09 like for example, my opinion
0:29:12 on the best Side Hustles of the year and other topics
0:29:14 or the best Side Hustles for this type of persona.
0:29:17 Now, as with most businesses, to be fair,
0:29:19 there’s lots to learn about creating
0:29:20 and marketing your site,
0:29:23 but it can be really, really lucrative.
0:29:24 I mean, for example,
0:29:26 we heard from Shelly Marmer on the show.
0:29:28 She was earning 50 grand a month,
0:29:30 sharing Mexico travel tips.
0:29:31 She lived there full time.
0:29:33 She gave her opinion on the best places to stay,
0:29:34 the best spots to eat,
0:29:36 the best activities to do when you’re visiting.
0:29:38 Now, it looks like, to be fair,
0:29:41 that traffic has dropped as it has for a lot of creators
0:29:43 since the time of that recording.
0:29:44 But that’s not to say it didn’t happen.
0:29:48 There’s still other ways to drive traffic beyond just Google.
0:29:51 And so it’s another way to monetize your opinion,
0:29:53 build that library of content,
0:29:55 build out that website as your online home base.
0:29:57 If you wanna start a site of your own,
0:29:59 you can check out my free six-part video series
0:30:04 on how to do just that at side hustle website.com.
0:30:06 But your opinions do have value.
0:30:09 And whether you wanna monetize them
0:30:10 by taking a few surveys
0:30:13 or by building out a full-fledged online business,
0:30:14 that’s up to you.
0:30:16 Depends on your goals and the time
0:30:18 you have to dedicate to it.
0:30:19 So that is our full list.
0:30:21 I wanna recap it here.
0:30:23 It was number one, online surveys.
0:30:25 Number two, focus groups and paid market research.
0:30:27 Three was product testing.
0:30:30 And I’ve got links to all of the resources mentioned
0:30:31 in the show notes.
0:30:33 So just follow the link in the episode description.
0:30:35 Number four was to test websites.
0:30:37 Can give your feedback on different web design stuff.
0:30:39 Number five was mystery shopping,
0:30:42 either through apps or through the MSPA.
0:30:45 You can find other mystery shopping companies
0:30:46 through there to sign up for
0:30:48 and see if you can get emailed about gigs near you.
0:30:50 Number six is to write software reviews.
0:30:52 Again, probably not a huge money maker,
0:30:53 but could be worthwhile.
0:30:55 Could be a little way to offset Amazon costs,
0:30:57 basically in our house.
0:30:59 Number seven is the Amazon influencer program,
0:31:02 create this little video product reviews for Amazon.
0:31:04 Number eight is to take a look
0:31:07 at creative problem solving sites like Mindsumo.
0:31:10 Number nine was freelance writing.
0:31:11 Number 10 was to write your book,
0:31:14 join the self publishing revolution there.
0:31:16 And 11 is your email newsletter.
0:31:20 And we looked at the example of Cody Sanchez on that front.
0:31:22 12 was the YouTube channel route,
0:31:25 creating hopefully evergreen video content
0:31:27 that can pay you over and over again.
0:31:31 And finally, 13 was to build that helpful website.
0:31:33 Now my preference is I’m looking for side hustles
0:31:35 with either a strong hourly rate.
0:31:37 Like, hey, if I’m gonna trade time for money,
0:31:40 I wanna trade it for a healthy amount of money,
0:31:43 or side hustles that have the ability to scale down the road,
0:31:45 where it’s almost this speculative work upfront,
0:31:47 hey, I’m not getting paid at all for creating this.
0:31:50 But my hope is it can reach a lot of people,
0:31:51 it can serve a lot of people,
0:31:55 and it can make money for months or years down the road.
0:31:58 In any case, thank you so much for tuning in.
0:31:59 That is it for me.
0:32:01 If you’re finding value in the show,
0:32:03 the greatest compliment is to share it with a friend.
0:32:06 So fire off your text message to your opinionated friend
0:32:08 and say, hey, if you ever wanted to get paid
0:32:11 for your opinion, here are some ideas on how to do that.
0:32:14 Until next time, let’s go out there and make something happen
0:32:15 and I’ll catch you in the next edition
0:32:17 of the Side Hustle Show.
0:32:18 Hustle on.

0:00:03 Getting paid to rent out other people’s stuff.
0:00:05 It’s true. What’s up?
0:00:05 What’s up, Nick Loper here.
0:00:08 Welcome to the Science Hustle Show, part of the entrepreneur
0:00:13 podcast network, because your earning power doesn’t have to stop when your day job does.
0:00:16 Now, you know, I love a rental business model.
0:00:19 It’s one of the four types of passive income.
0:00:20 You can quiz your friends what the other three are.
0:00:22 I’ll fill those in at the end of the show.
0:00:26 But today’s guest scaled his rental business in a unique way
0:00:30 by renting out other people’s RVs with their permission, of course.
0:00:32 Could you do the same thing?
0:00:34 Could you apply the same idea in a different niche?
0:00:41 Let’s stick around to find out from fireside RV rental.com Gar Russell.
0:00:42 Welcome to the Science Hustle Show.
0:00:44 Hey, Nick, thanks for having me.
0:00:45 Excited to be here with you.
0:00:46 Well, I’m excited for this one.
0:00:50 We’re covering how Gar convinced other owners to trust him with their RVs.
0:00:50 That’s a big step.
0:00:55 The logistics of running this thing and the bumps in the road along the way.
0:00:59 I want to start off with you have this idea like it’s going to be a fantastic
0:01:03 birthday present for your lovely bride or an anniversary present, rather.
0:01:05 And hey, honey, we got this RV.
0:01:07 Let’s go. We’re going to have all these fun times in the woods.
0:01:11 Imagining the years of outdoor fun and adventure ahead of you.
0:01:15 And her reaction is not quite what you’re hoping it will be.
0:01:18 Yeah, we got to the campground and we got set up.
0:01:23 I thought all was going well the first morning when she’s chasing our toddler
0:01:26 around and seven months pregnant with number four.
0:01:28 And she said, I’m going home, baby.
0:01:31 And I thought, oh, what did I forget?
0:01:34 And I didn’t forget anything.
0:01:36 She was just miserable and she was done camping.
0:01:39 And we were supposed to be there six more days.
0:01:43 Yeah, so that’s not how anybody wanted it to go down.
0:01:45 No, no, not at all.
0:01:50 And I went right into panic mode of, oh my gosh, I just bought this RV
0:01:53 for a lot of money and my wife doesn’t want to be here
0:01:56 and jumped onto Craigslist and threw it up for rent.
0:02:01 OK, so you’ve got this big expensive asset slash liability at the moment.
0:02:04 But hopefully it turns into an asset sitting in the driveway and said,
0:02:06 well, shoot, what am I going to do with this thing?
0:02:09 So you turn around and put up for rent on Craigslist.
0:02:12 What kind of reaction does that get?
0:02:14 Any takers? Yeah, you know, it blew my mind.
0:02:18 I literally had inquiries coming in within a couple of hours.
0:02:21 So the light bulb like immediately went off.
0:02:23 People are, hey, I need it for this weekend
0:02:26 because that was in July when I purchased it for.
0:02:29 So it’s like in the middle of summer and people are, oh, hey,
0:02:31 we’re going camping this weekend or that weekend.
0:02:33 You know, sure. So it was it was wild.
0:02:37 Any sort of like driver vetting?
0:02:38 Do you need like a commercial license to drive on these things?
0:02:41 I’d be intimidated driving around something in that size.
0:02:43 No, you go right to what people typically ask
0:02:47 when I ask them for their RV is, OK, who’s going to be driving this?
0:02:48 What’s that going to look like?
0:02:51 And so, yeah, there’s just like Airbnb and Toro.
0:02:53 There’s peer-to-peer platforms for this industry.
0:02:56 So they have the insurance and the driver
0:02:59 verifications and security deposits and, you know, all the things.
0:03:02 All right. So that is in place now.
0:03:05 What was your process early on of starting out?
0:03:10 Well, no. So when I started, there was who is still the main platform,
0:03:12 RVshare.com. They were up and running.
0:03:16 They started in 2013. I started in 2016.
0:03:19 I just sort of running rentals like right through RVshare
0:03:21 to use their insurance and all that stuff.
0:03:25 Oh, OK, OK, so we got some initial traction on Craigslist.
0:03:28 But hey, go check out my listing or go check out my profile book
0:03:32 through RVshare, one of the leading platforms outdoorsy being the other one
0:03:34 where it’s the peer-to-peer marketplace.
0:03:37 It’s the Toro. It’s the Airbnb for renting RVs.
0:03:40 So there was an existing demand here.
0:03:43 And I think that’s probably an important place to start is saying, well,
0:03:45 wasn’t necessarily reinventing the wheel.
0:03:48 It was like, hey, I’m going to go put my buy button up for sale on some place
0:03:52 where people are already looking for this thing to go rent this thing.
0:03:55 And so there was a precedent for doing that rather than
0:03:58 trying to create demand out of nowhere.
0:04:00 Exactly. Yeah.
0:04:02 What did you charge for those first weekend rentals?
0:04:06 Maybe like 100, 125 dollars a night or something like that.
0:04:09 OK, gosh, I imagine I remember these things were
0:04:12 completely blown up during the pandemic.
0:04:14 Like, well, I can’t do anything. I want to go camping, go rent an RV.
0:04:16 Or I rent a spinner van.
0:04:19 And sometimes it’d be like two fifty, three hundred bucks a night
0:04:21 for some of these like nicer decked out vans.
0:04:23 Oh, yeah, yeah, you can pay a premium.
0:04:27 We’ve got some nice like Super C diesels and some nice class B’s
0:04:33 and some big class A’s that, yeah, rent for four hundred dollars or more a night.
0:04:36 We just had a guy that paid six thousand dollars
0:04:40 to have an RV delivered from Alabama to Michigan
0:04:43 for a festival because he liked that unit so much that
0:04:45 it just was an incidental.
0:04:47 The money was just OK, what’s the cost?
0:04:50 And wow, he had had it for teledague races
0:04:52 and he wanted it for another event he was going to.
0:04:57 Was there a target occupancy or target monthly income
0:05:01 that you’re trying to hit to offset the payment, the depreciation?
0:05:04 Like something that would make it less of like, ah, you know,
0:05:06 this big money pit sitting in the driveway.
0:05:09 In the heat of the moment, no, it was literally just getting away
0:05:13 from the pain of feeling like a weirdo for buying a camper that my wife hated.
0:05:15 Then as things scaled and escalated,
0:05:19 yeah, then you start getting a little more granular and like, OK,
0:05:22 for the wear and tear on this and ours was a total, I always say,
0:05:26 towable travel trailer or drivable RV to help people differentiate.
0:05:29 Ours was a towable travel trailer.
0:05:32 So there wasn’t as much wear and tear like engine, you know, mileage,
0:05:34 generator, stuff like that.
0:05:37 OK, I’m picturing like an airstream or something
0:05:39 that would like attach to a hitch or like a fifth wheel.
0:05:40 Yeah, exactly.
0:05:43 That was our first that started this business.
0:05:44 Yeah, it was a towable.
0:05:45 Interesting.
0:05:50 And then for somebody starting out on RV share,
0:05:56 what kind of best practices did you find to get listing to your attention?
0:06:00 He’s like, OK, Craig’s list kind of I guess people will be seeking it out.
0:06:02 But now, all of a sudden, if you’re on these platforms,
0:06:06 you’re competing with dozens of other listings in your areas.
0:06:09 Like, well, how do I make mine the one that they click on and want to book?
0:06:12 Just like anything else, honestly, real estate,
0:06:13 throwing something up on marketplace.
0:06:17 Pitchers is obviously a huge one painting a picture for somebody
0:06:21 like them seeing themselves inside of that travel trailer,
0:06:24 seeing their family inside of that is the layout going to work.
0:06:26 Is it going to have the right amenities that it needs?
0:06:30 So that’s something that I realized was important right off the bat
0:06:33 is really helping people understand because these people that were renting
0:06:35 my camper, they weren’t campers.
0:06:37 They just wanted to go camping.
0:06:41 So I was really painting a really clear picture for them fast forward down the road
0:06:44 to we’ve got 45 locations across the country now.
0:06:47 Franchise is doing this competing with others.
0:06:51 It’s all about creating value, showing the value where so many people
0:06:55 that jump on these platforms are just lowering their prices, lowering their prices.
0:06:58 You know, like, hey, $40 a night rent my camper.
0:07:00 So our whole thing is showing value.
0:07:03 It is interesting as you walk down that road and you scale
0:07:07 and you start to really think about your market and the best way to serve them.
0:07:11 Right at a certain price per night, it doesn’t pay for the hassle
0:07:15 of dealing with the logistics and the wear and tear on the thing.
0:07:18 And just I don’t know if that’s worthwhile.
0:07:19 It’s going to make sure it is worthwhile.
0:07:24 Exactly, yeah, especially on the drivable RVs, where you’re putting miles
0:07:29 on an engine and wear and tear as you’ve got to be very mindful of depreciation.
0:07:33 Depreciation is a great side of this because just like real estate, you can depreciate it.
0:07:39 But also, like you mentioned at the beginning there, this is a liability to start.
0:07:42 It’s not like a piece of real estate where it’s going to appreciate.
0:07:45 It’s depreciating the moment you buy it.
0:07:47 So it’s very mindful of that.
0:07:47 All right.
0:07:52 So you start to see some traction on RV share a little bit through the Craigslist ad.
0:07:54 You say, OK, there might be something here.
0:07:59 I’m no longer losing money on this thing or I’m no longer losing as much money on this thing.
0:08:03 You’re like, well, the way to scale is more inventory here.
0:08:05 There’s only so many weekends in the month.
0:08:07 There’s only so many days in the month somebody could rent this thing.
0:08:10 So if I want more inventory, I got to go out and find more RVs.
0:08:12 So what is this conversation like?
0:08:15 How do you find the first people to say, like, have I got it?
0:08:16 A business proposition for you.
0:08:20 I’m going to rent some strangers or let some strangers into your vacation vehicle here.
0:08:22 And I’ll give you a cut of the proceeds.
0:08:24 Like, what are these conversations start?
0:08:28 So it didn’t start with that model, what I call the OPRV model.
0:08:32 It really started with I need more RVs.
0:08:35 So literally, fast forward to the end of August.
0:08:39 We’re having number four that my wife was miserable with in July pregnant.
0:08:42 All of our kids were born on C sections, VSC sections.
0:08:44 So literally, it’s like scheduled, you know what you’re going to do?
0:08:47 You check into the room. It’s like, OK, maybe it’s here.
0:08:48 You’re in the room.
0:08:52 So I get my wife and baby checked into the room.
0:08:55 And then literally, I’m like, all right, honey, I’ll be right back.
0:08:57 And where was I going?
0:08:59 I was headed to the dealership to buy four more RVs.
0:09:01 Oh, my gosh. OK.
0:09:05 And she’s like, oh, OK, she’s been an entrepreneurial spouse for long enough to know.
0:09:07 Like, we just do weird things like that as entrepreneurs.
0:09:14 But literally, as I’m doing that, the Lord was like, OPRV.
0:09:17 That’s when I got the OPRV method was God telling me that.
0:09:20 I still went and bought the RVs because I’m already driving there.
0:09:22 I’m a little dense. It takes me a little bit to catch on.
0:09:27 But a couple of weeks later, that’s when it clicked like, no, it’s other people’s assets.
0:09:30 So that’s when I started reaching out to other people like, hey,
0:09:31 I want to take your RV and rent it.
0:09:33 And it was literally one or two things.
0:09:37 First person I asked was my sister-in-law, and she’s like, that’s gross.
0:09:38 Like, someone’s not sleeping in my bed.
0:09:40 That’s a very bad idea.
0:09:44 That’s what I imagined the reaction was going to be like, I know, thanks.
0:09:46 We bought it for our own family.
0:09:47 Like, yeah, that’s weird.
0:09:49 And then I reached out to my best friend, Jeremy.
0:09:51 And Jeremy was like, dude, that’s sweet for sure.
0:09:53 Sign me up, man.
0:09:56 And so there was unit number two and it went on from there.
0:09:57 What was the proposal?
0:09:58 What was like the rev share?
0:10:00 What kind of pitch did you come to it with?
0:10:01 It was very simple.
0:10:05 It’s, hey, I’ll do all the work and we’ll split the revenue 50/50.
0:10:07 So he had a nine to five.
0:10:11 I didn’t, I owned some businesses in real estate and I had freedom in my
0:10:13 schedule to do different things.
0:10:17 That was the presentation was I’m going to do all the work.
0:10:19 We split the revenue 50/50.
0:10:22 How did you deal with getting the RVs to the customers?
0:10:26 I guess it’s all local or they come to your place and pick it up.
0:10:30 Or, you know, just, I think of like moving vehicles all around, like with rental
0:10:33 cars, like I pick it up at the airport and then I fly away and drop it off.
0:10:35 Like it’s somewhat easier.
0:10:38 But in this case, it’s like, well, where do I store the thing?
0:10:41 Now, if you got five of them, where do I store these things?
0:10:44 Plus, you know, trying to meet people where they’re at.
0:10:49 Yeah, it was me and my truck and moving units around.
0:10:50 And I lived on some acreage.
0:10:54 So I decided, OK, I should probably start grouping these things together
0:10:56 logistically to make a little bit easier myself.
0:11:01 And then I got a violation from the city that I wasn’t zone to do that.
0:11:05 So then it moved into, all right, well, I want to keep doing this.
0:11:07 So we got a parking lot that we run it out.
0:11:11 OK, OK, one from there to we got our own facility.
0:11:15 We’re like, well, we can collect storage on these when they’re not being used.
0:11:19 So we’ll get a facility that’ll cover overhead for the facility, the storage fees.
0:11:22 And it just, yeah, one thing to the next.
0:11:26 Next thing you know, I have RV tax working for me and I and I have storage
0:11:30 and I sell propane and we have a dump station and all these different things.
0:11:32 Oh, sorry, explain the storage fees.
0:11:34 Sorry, I’m confused on that part.
0:11:38 Most people pay to store their RV a storage facility.
0:11:41 So OK, yeah, we just ended up grouping them together.
0:11:44 And that’s how a lot of our franchises run today is they just partner
0:11:48 with a storage facility near them and they group the RVs there.
0:11:51 So for them, they don’t have a lot of that overhead
0:11:53 as far as having to have like a brick and mortar and all that overhead.
0:11:58 Got it. OK, here’s the centralized parking lots to come and pick everything
0:12:01 and go on your way for your trip. OK, exactly. Yeah. Got it.
0:12:04 All right, Gar’s got his first OPRV on board.
0:12:06 He’s proven out the concept.
0:12:11 And now he’s on the hunt for more owners who will let him run out their RVs.
0:12:14 That process and more coming up right after this.
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0:14:55 All right. So you get the first OPRV on board and say,
0:14:59 “Hey, all the other work, we’ll split the revenue, sounds good, deal, sign me up.”
0:15:00 What happens after that?
0:15:04 It’s like trying to find, you know, RV campsites nearby
0:15:06 and like canvassing people, although those might be renters themselves.
0:15:10 Or you go into RV owner Facebook groups and saying,
0:15:16 “Hey, have you ever thought about this, but trying to approach it in a non-skizzy way
0:15:18 and get kicked out of the group? How does the scale?”
0:15:22 It’s scaled on the finding the renter side.
0:15:25 I would create ads on Craigslist for rent.
0:15:28 And then really, I just leaned on the peer-to-peer platforms.
0:15:30 So RV, Share, Outdoorsy and there’s a couple others.
0:15:34 They were basically handling my lead generation as far as finding me renters.
0:15:39 Sure. And then defining owner side, that’s really easy.
0:15:42 I mean, there’s RVs, there’s over 12 million RVs sitting around doing nothing.
0:15:46 So what I did was someone had an RV in their driveway and knocked on their door,
0:15:51 went to storage facilities, tried to strike up deals like mom and pop facilities
0:15:52 to talk to their owners.
0:15:56 And then just like, you know, if you’re renting your house on Airbnb,
0:15:59 they have Airbnb Facebook groups.
0:16:03 I started joining those groups for people that were renting their RV
0:16:06 and just kind of sharing, hey, if you find like this is too much work for you
0:16:10 with your nine to five, I’m happy to do the work for you.
0:16:14 And then just kind of sharing my entrepreneurial history and real estate.
0:16:19 OK, like an Airbnb property manager or like a co-hosted Airbnb thing,
0:16:21 like where you still own the asset.
0:16:22 Hey, we’re not going to buy it from you.
0:16:24 We are going to take a percentage.
0:16:25 We’re going to handle the booking requests.
0:16:28 We’re going to handle the customer interaction, the cleaning, all that stuff.
0:16:30 And you can still make money from it.
0:16:34 Yeah, exactly. If you like renting your RV, but you don’t like the work so much,
0:16:36 we’ll do the work for you.
0:16:40 OK, so targeting, it sounds like people starting out who were used to that idea
0:16:46 rather than trying to force yourself upon the market of just those 12 million
0:16:49 RV owners who maybe hadn’t considered that as an income stream.
0:16:51 They just have it for personal use and they don’t really care.
0:16:54 I imagine you could probably convert some of those, but going after the people
0:16:58 who are open to renting it or have proven to be open to it already.
0:17:01 That’s a warmer market to tackle.
0:17:04 Yeah, and especially now post COVID, like you talked about everybody
0:17:07 RVing and everybody buying an RV during COVID.
0:17:08 Yeah.
0:17:12 Now, a lot of our pool that we draw from is just Facebook Marketplace.
0:17:15 Just going on there and just sharing the concept with people.
0:17:16 Hey, I see your RVs for sale.
0:17:18 It’s beautiful.
0:17:21 If you find that you’re getting lowball offers and maybe you need to pay
0:17:25 your principal down some, we’ve got a program that we’ve created to help with that.
0:17:27 If you want more information, we’d love to tell you.
0:17:28 Interesting.
0:17:33 Yeah, it’s a really interesting product class because of that super,
0:17:37 super low utilization rate where it’s like, it probably sits around 50
0:17:38 weeks out of the year.
0:17:43 I mean, some of the stats on cars sit idle 22 hours a day or something.
0:17:46 It’s like, for this, it’s got to be even more average it out on a daily basis.
0:17:50 And so that makes it a really interesting asset to try and try and improve
0:17:51 that a little bit.
0:17:53 Hey, sitting around, let’s let some other families enjoy it.
0:17:56 We’ll put some money in your pocket and go from there.
0:18:00 So you start to get some traction doing that and trying to manage primarily local
0:18:03 or is it kind of branching out geographically at this point?
0:18:06 I imagine with different Facebook groups, it’s a nationwide or international audience.
0:18:09 Yeah, when we started, it was primarily local.
0:18:11 We kind of found our niche.
0:18:15 A lot of people going to specific state parks for family camping trips.
0:18:20 And so we would kind of figure out where we would want to serve as far as how
0:18:22 far we’d want to deliver and stuff like that.
0:18:23 Yeah, it’s just amazing.
0:18:24 There’s campgrounds everywhere.
0:18:26 There’s storage facilities everywhere.
0:18:27 There’s RV dealerships everywhere.
0:18:30 It’s kind of like you buy a red car, then all of a sudden you realize somebody
0:18:32 red cars are out there on the roads.
0:18:33 RVing is everywhere.
0:18:35 It’s what a lot of Americans do.
0:18:40 What’s the one I used to always see in RV America?
0:18:43 Or it’s like one big, it seems to be a nationwide rental outfit.
0:18:44 Yeah, Cruise America.
0:18:46 Yes, yes, yes, yes.
0:18:48 Yeah, so Cruise America is still around.
0:18:50 They’re the billboard on wheels, basically.
0:18:55 It’s really interesting because learning the RV industry now over the years, a
0:18:57 lot of dealerships used to rent RVs out.
0:19:00 And that was a lead generation tool for them.
0:19:03 That was a way to take new inventory, make some money off it, appreciate it a
0:19:05 little bit and then turn around and sell it used.
0:19:09 And then there was like this mass Exodus and basically who’d you have left?
0:19:10 Cruise America.
0:19:12 There’s a couple other guys out West.
0:19:16 And then in 2013, this industry just came up out of nowhere.
0:19:20 It was literally the founder of RV share took his family on a camping trip.
0:19:24 When he got back, he’s like, all right, well, I traveled across the country
0:19:25 like I wanted to do.
0:19:27 Now I have this RV.
0:19:28 What do I do with that?
0:19:29 I’m going to rent it out.
0:19:31 And he went online to look for a platform and there wasn’t one.
0:19:32 Yeah.
0:19:35 And that’s how RV share was birthed.
0:19:39 Is the Cruise America model more like a rental car business where they own the
0:19:40 units or is it similar?
0:19:44 Whereas like, well, the ones that I remember seeing were all pretty uniform.
0:19:46 It seemed to be like the same model.
0:19:46 Yeah.
0:19:50 Cruise America, they have them built in batches and it’s similar models.
0:19:55 And they kind of operate a little bit like U-Haul, like they’ll partner with
0:19:57 businesses that have a little bit of real estate where they can park some
0:20:00 RVs and they give them a percentage of the revenue.
0:20:00 Yeah.
0:20:03 No, I love the rental business model.
0:20:06 If I’m pausing, it’s because my gears are turning and like, well, what other?
0:20:08 Maybe it’s industrial equipment or something.
0:20:11 I’m thinking about the stuff that I would go and rent for my painting business.
0:20:14 Like, well, this big 40 foot ladder.
0:20:17 Or I wouldn’t make sense to own that because you only needed it maybe once
0:20:22 or twice per season, but you go to the United rentals, I think was the place.
0:20:25 And you rent this for the day or rent this for the week.
0:20:28 If you needed it on the job site, it’s like, what are the other things with
0:20:33 like super low utilization, maybe kind of a high upfront cost?
0:20:35 Where do I really want to buy that?
0:20:38 Especially from the point of view of the RV vacationer.
0:20:40 Do I really want to buy this?
0:20:41 I would love to just rent it for the week.
0:20:44 Like that seems lower risk, lower overhead.
0:20:47 We’ll see if we like it, a trial run type of thing.
0:20:50 So if I pause, that’s where I’m like, what else could you rent out?
0:20:51 So yeah, I like that.
0:20:53 It is amazing with RVs.
0:20:55 It’s almost like a time share.
0:20:58 When you buy it, it’s like, it seems like the best idea ever.
0:21:01 You know, my gosh, we’re going to go there all the time and memories and all
0:21:05 these things and you realize Johnny’s got practice and you got X amount of
0:21:10 weeks of vacation a year and I don’t know, do we load the RV up just to go away
0:21:12 for the weekend and you know, is it worth it?
0:21:14 And you get your avid RVers.
0:21:18 I mean, heck, we literally full time RV for almost five years while we were
0:21:22 building this business, we had a blast and we loved the lifestyle.
0:21:27 But most Americans, it’s like, yeah, it’s our most of the year.
0:21:32 You think that full time RV experience was an asset in having conversations
0:21:34 with RV owners.
0:21:37 I guess if people are doing it full time, they don’t have the capacity to go
0:21:38 and rent it out for extra income.
0:21:40 But like you were in the space.
0:21:43 Like you knew you could speak the lingo, you know, it was funny.
0:21:49 I didn’t really spend a lot of time sales and marketing like on the road.
0:21:53 We would work hard during the summer with our business, make a really good
0:21:55 amount of money and then we would just travel around all winter.
0:22:00 And so it’s kind of like the brain was turned off a little bit and hindsight
0:22:02 what I’ve learned about marketing the last couple of years.
0:22:05 I’m like, oh my gosh, I could have created so much content and done so
0:22:09 much blogging and this and that, but I wish I could do that all over again.
0:22:11 But yeah, it was really it was the business model.
0:22:14 When I started to duplicate it, that’s how I presented it was.
0:22:17 I called it the six figure summer.
0:22:19 You work your tail off for about five, six months.
0:22:22 You have about 20, 25 RVs in your fleet.
0:22:24 Do you crush it during the summer and then you travel during the winter?
0:22:28 That’s the business model I built because we, we homeschool our four kids.
0:22:30 We love to travel and do life together.
0:22:34 That was the thought when we created it, when we turn it into a biz opportunity
0:22:35 that we sold to others as well.
0:22:36 Yeah.
0:22:38 I admire the ability to turn it off.
0:22:41 And say, hey, six figure summer, had a great season.
0:22:44 We’ll do it again next year versus, well, what about the fall season?
0:22:47 What about if we did six figure, maybe we could do multi.
0:22:52 You have this kind of concept that I call gravy time.
0:22:55 How long into the year do you need to work to cover your annual expenses?
0:22:59 The average, I want to say, based on a five percent savings rate is like
0:23:02 people are working to the second week of December before they’re like,
0:23:04 okay, I’ve covered my expenses, right?
0:23:07 And I have this really thin margin at the end of the year.
0:23:09 We’ve met other people who are like, I’m good.
0:23:10 By March, I’m good.
0:23:11 I booked enough work.
0:23:12 I’m happy.
0:23:15 It’s like, ah, you know, the ability to kind of turn it off, dial it back.
0:23:16 I really like that.
0:23:19 I really like this concept of the six figure summer.
0:23:25 I wanted to ask for, as you’re signing on other RV owners to kind of be
0:23:30 their rental agent, their property manager, so to speak, handle these rental bookings.
0:23:33 Is there a typical target?
0:23:37 And it’s going to vary based on market and seasonality and all that.
0:23:44 But in terms of the monthly occupancy rate or the monthly income, any metrics
0:23:47 that you could share on that front for like, what is this thing sitting in the
0:23:49 driveway realistically worth?
0:23:50 Even ballpark ranges would be fine.
0:23:55 Yeah, I can tell you our average is based on our historical data.
0:24:00 Like this year, the average booking is six days this year.
0:24:05 The average net to the travel trailer owner is right around three to five
0:24:06 hundred dollars per booking.
0:24:11 If it’s a drivable RV, it’s about five to seven hundred dollars per booking.
0:24:15 And then based on the location, if it’s a seasonal location or if it’s
0:24:19 Florida, Arizona, California, somewhere like that, if it’s a seasonal location,
0:24:22 they’re going to do about seven to 10 bookings per summer.
0:24:25 And then a year round location could do double that.
0:24:30 So that’s kind of a starting point that we give people as far as the owner, as
0:24:32 far as how much they can earn.
0:24:36 And then also there’s the right offside of it, too.
0:24:38 They get to depreciate the RV, which is great.
0:24:41 They get to write off, you know, the insurance and repairs and maintenance
0:24:42 and stuff like that.
0:24:46 If you’re not renting it out, then there’s no depreciation you can claim
0:24:49 because it’s not seen as like a business asset.
0:24:50 Exactly.
0:24:51 Yeah.
0:24:57 I’ve had investors that have literally purchased Class C drivable RVs just
0:24:58 to offset taxes.
0:25:02 Yeah, I imagine that depending on the vehicle, that might be worth more than
0:25:04 the 500 bucks per booking.
0:25:04 Yeah.
0:25:05 Interesting.
0:25:07 Okay, that’s helpful.
0:25:11 And are you still doing 50/50 rev share split or has that adjusted over time
0:25:13 during this kind of like pre-franchise phase?
0:25:16 Yeah, so we still do a 50/50 revenue split.
0:25:19 We just now we have a platform fee that comes off the top.
0:25:24 So like RV share, they get 25% commission.
0:25:25 Okay.
0:25:25 All their owners.
0:25:29 We have a corporate agreement with them because we’re their largest customer.
0:25:32 And then outdoors, you know, so all the platforms have their fees.
0:25:37 So just across the board, we take a 15% off the top and then we split the revenue
0:25:38 after that.
0:25:39 Okay.
0:25:43 And the reason I ask is, well, if I’m going to take the OPRV model to another
0:25:46 niche, to another product class, like, okay, what’s typical?
0:25:50 So yeah, there’s going to be the platform fee and then the kind of like agency fee
0:25:53 that will do it all for you fee of handling the stuff.
0:25:58 And then after they come back, is it like Airbnb, you know, attack on a cleaning
0:26:01 fee or is that kind of taken out of the booking?
0:26:04 And you got to coordinate cleaners to come through and make sure it’s ready
0:26:05 for the next guest.
0:26:09 Add-ons are a great extra revenue source for the franchisees.
0:26:11 We have some bookings that you’d be amazed.
0:26:13 It’s like a weekend booking.
0:26:15 It’s cost them like maybe $600, $700.
0:26:17 They have $800 in add-ons.
0:26:19 Like they got the linen’s package.
0:26:21 They got the kitchen package.
0:26:22 They got the s’mores kit.
0:26:24 They got the chairs.
0:26:25 They rented the kayaks.
0:26:29 So the list goes on and on and on, especially when people are like flying in.
0:26:34 If they’re coming in, like we work with Talladega, Bonnaroo Music Festival,
0:26:38 Burning Man, the different events like that, equestrian events.
0:26:38 Okay.
0:26:43 People will pay a premium like to fly in, have it loaded with groceries.
0:26:47 That’s at the airport ready for them or it’s delivered right to the infield of
0:26:48 the raceway.
0:26:52 Yeah, we have bookings where somebody will literally come in for a weekend and
0:26:55 they’re dropping $3,000 to $5,000 for a weekend rental.
0:26:56 Wow.
0:27:00 Okay, catering to a different level of affluence in certain cases.
0:27:03 Like, hey, we’re going to make it easy for you.
0:27:06 That’s the cool thing about it is it’s wheel estate, right?
0:27:07 It’s a house on wheels.
0:27:09 So it’s so multifaceted.
0:27:11 Like we work with insurance companies.
0:27:16 We’ve had several RVs in the last couple months go just to be parked
0:27:17 alongside someone’s house.
0:27:19 There was fire damage, water damage.
0:27:24 The insurance company is paying us $4,000 to $6,000 a month to set up an RV on
0:27:26 the side of the house or hurricanes.
0:27:32 During COVID, I get a power plant in Michigan that orders 72 travel trailers
0:27:35 as quarantine units for their electrical engineers.
0:27:38 Okay.
0:27:42 Yeah, maybe not the intended use case, but a use case nonetheless.
0:27:43 Yeah.
0:27:45 So I facilitate that order.
0:27:47 I go and I buy three rental properties from that.
0:27:48 That was phenomenal.
0:27:49 That’s interesting.
0:27:53 And then to go back to the cleaning and turnover thing, is that just have a team
0:27:59 of house cleaners that could also clean RVs on location near these kind of
0:28:03 parking center storage center type of places that can handle the turnover.
0:28:04 Yeah.
0:28:08 So you find people that clean air B and B is, you know, it’s such an interesting
0:28:10 concept to people that a lot of times if you, Hey, I’m looking for someone to
0:28:13 clean campers, like they don’t even respond to the ad.
0:28:17 But if you go into a Facebook group and you’re Aaron, you say, Hey, I’m looking
0:28:19 for somebody who cleans short term rentals.
0:28:22 Now all of a sudden you got 35 people messaging you saying, Oh yeah, I can do
0:28:23 that for you.
0:28:24 And then he’s, okay, great.
0:28:27 It’s the same thing with like delivering the campers.
0:28:31 My famous ad was always, Hey, I’m looking for old retired guys with
0:28:35 trucks that are bored, you know, and then you get a bunch of people that laugh
0:28:36 and comment and this and that.
0:28:37 And then they message you, Hey, what do you got?
0:28:39 I’m an old retired guy with a truck.
0:28:42 Like, well, actually I need someone to deliver campers for me to the campgrounds.
0:28:46 I have guys that literally they’re like, God, just give me gas money.
0:28:49 They’re like, I’m having so much fun doing this.
0:28:51 I just like it’s camping growing up.
0:28:52 This is a blast.
0:28:56 Husband and wife teams are cleaning the campers, delivering them, having a blast
0:28:57 together.
0:29:00 It’s amazing how quick you can pull together a team when it comes to this.
0:29:01 Okay.
0:29:02 Fascinating.
0:29:03 I love that ad.
0:29:04 Hey, we’ll do it for free.
0:29:08 Just cover the gas more with Gar in just a moment, including some of the things
0:29:11 that can happen on the open road and how to protect yourself from those.
0:29:15 And why he chose the franchise model to scale operations even further.
0:29:18 All that and more coming up right after this.
0:29:20 Obviously you have the bad side to it too.
0:29:21 Just like anything else.
0:29:26 We had people show up to pick up RVs that had no business being in an RV that
0:29:28 we’re just mad because they couldn’t go to Max score or whatever.
0:29:30 This thing is horrible.
0:29:32 It’s, I’m not taking this thing.
0:29:33 And there’s nothing wrong with it.
0:29:34 They’re just miserable.
0:29:39 Anything else on that horror story list or the mistakes or.
0:29:40 Oh yeah.
0:29:41 We’ve got horror stories for sure.
0:29:41 Yeah.
0:29:42 Yeah.
0:29:46 The biggest one we have that we get a hoot out of is there was a couple of
0:29:47 ladies in Pennsylvania.
0:29:49 They were renting an RV for a couple of months.
0:29:55 They were going all the way to California and back brand new RV day.
0:29:56 Number two, they wake up.
0:30:01 They have bed bug bites like head to toe bed bug bites.
0:30:03 We’re getting treatments.
0:30:05 We’re getting them hotels.
0:30:06 We’re getting them rental cars.
0:30:09 We’re like, ladies, do your, you’re like, my saying was always like, no rental
0:30:13 canceled, like we’ll get them through because if you’re an RV or you get it,
0:30:15 like things go wrong, things break.
0:30:17 That’s like part of the RV experience.
0:30:19 Like things are going to happen, right?
0:30:23 It’s a house going down the road shaking and things are, it just, things happen.
0:30:28 We got these ladies all the way to California and back and come to find out.
0:30:30 We’re just, you know, we’re like, what in the world happened?
0:30:34 We’re talking to the owner of this RV and trying to just figure this out.
0:30:36 She’s like, well, it’s not me.
0:30:37 I work at a women’s shelter.
0:30:38 I deal with bed bugs all the day.
0:30:40 I know it’s nothing to do with me.
0:30:41 Nothing to do with you.
0:30:43 The light bulb goes off.
0:30:44 Well, you work at a women’s shelter.
0:30:48 You deal with bed bugs all day long and your brand new RV has bed bugs in it.
0:30:50 You don’t think there’s any connection there?
0:30:52 Yikes.
0:30:53 Yeah.
0:30:54 That’s challenging.
0:30:58 Have you ever had the example of, I guess if you do enough volume, it’s
0:31:03 bound to happen, but somebody damaging the vehicle or trashing the vehicle or
0:31:06 like, how do you protect the owners from something like that?
0:31:10 Same as Airbnb and Toro, there’s insurance, there’s security deposits,
0:31:14 there’s driver verifications, there’s contracts, but it definitely happens.
0:31:17 That’s one of the things that I encouraged by franchisees on.
0:31:21 When you’re talking to RV owners, if they’re super hyper sensitive about
0:31:27 people being in their RV or damages is just let them know, hey, this
0:31:30 probably isn’t the program for you because obviously there’s, you know,
0:31:33 some emotional connection to that RV, which makes sense.
0:31:35 And damages are going to happen.
0:31:39 I mean, I just had issues with my Airbnb last weekend, whether it’s a
0:31:40 house and RV or whatever.
0:31:45 I mean, people are going to not show proper respect and certain scenarios.
0:31:47 And two, just things are going to happen.
0:31:48 Things are going to break.
0:31:49 So that definitely does happen for sure.
0:31:56 Yeah, you found the platform insurance is adequate or they’re reasonably
0:32:00 responsive to customer service requests when stuff like that does come through.
0:32:00 Yeah.
0:32:01 Yeah, they’re great.
0:32:02 RV share is phenomenal.
0:32:07 We just had a situation with RV share where there was some damages.
0:32:11 The security deposit did not process on their credit card.
0:32:12 The renter’s credit card.
0:32:14 We caught it too late.
0:32:16 RV share just sent us the money.
0:32:17 They’re phenomenal.
0:32:20 Do I need a commercial license to go drive a 30 footer?
0:32:22 Like, it seems huge.
0:32:23 Yeah, you would think so.
0:32:29 You really would because you can get a drivable RV up to 42 foot long.
0:32:31 Yeah, it’s the size of a school bus.
0:32:35 Yeah, people are literally buying these things at the dealership.
0:32:38 You got a 70 year old retired couple that are like, all right, thanks.
0:32:39 This is great.
0:32:41 We’re hitting the road and they’re just pulling out the road.
0:32:43 Like, there’s no licensing.
0:32:44 There’s no requirement.
0:32:49 They can be in these huge, monstrous diesel built on Freightliner chassis.
0:32:54 That’s a six figure class A’s and they’re just on the road.
0:32:55 Okay.
0:33:01 Yeah, that’s, I mean, I guess positive that it’s accessible to everybody.
0:33:05 Nerve racking, if that is your baby that some Rindo, no experienced person
0:33:07 has taken out onto the highway for the first time.
0:33:12 Yeah, the class A’s definitely, those are the number one damage RVs out of all of them
0:33:16 because they’re just huge the way that you’re sitting on it and you’re turning
0:33:18 radius and the swing in the back and stuff like that.
0:33:19 Yeah.
0:33:23 Is there a sweet spot that you like to play in in terms of the class or the
0:33:25 size of RV or trailer?
0:33:29 Bunkhouse, travel trailers and fifth wheels are very popular because the
0:33:34 audience that we’re seeking to serve is families typically.
0:33:35 So it’s typically the family.
0:33:38 They’re going on their summer family camping trip.
0:33:41 They’re going to be at a state park for a week or it’s the family.
0:33:42 They’re getting in a driveable RV.
0:33:43 They’re going to Disney.
0:33:46 They’re going to California and so on.
0:33:51 And then the big class A’s, those are typically rented more for like the high
0:33:53 end events where people are flying in.
0:33:56 They want everything top of the line.
0:33:57 They’re not even driving their RV.
0:34:00 It’s getting delivered there and they’re just showing up to use it.
0:34:00 Okay.
0:34:04 Talk to me about the next stage of this business because I think this is an
0:34:06 interesting fork in the road.
0:34:08 So you find something that works.
0:34:09 You’re signing up these other RV owners.
0:34:11 You’re collecting your fee.
0:34:12 They’re getting booked.
0:34:12 They’re making money.
0:34:13 Everybody is happy.
0:34:16 You’re dealing with the headaches as they come up like any entrepreneur does.
0:34:18 So we found something that works.
0:34:22 But to really scale this thing, we need to go really broad.
0:34:25 We need to be in more geographies and it’s just difficult to do.
0:34:26 So we need like boots on the ground.
0:34:29 We need franchisees in these different areas.
0:34:35 So you start to franchise fireside RVRental.com versus, you know, an alternative
0:34:38 path would have been like, I’ll create the online course on how to start an RV
0:34:42 business or just continue to hire local branch managers.
0:34:43 Like there’s different paths.
0:34:44 So what attracted you to the franchise model?
0:34:48 Because this is mired in red tape, regulatory standpoint.
0:34:51 Does it get a franchise approved if my understanding is correct?
0:34:52 Yeah, very much is.
0:34:55 I think it was my entrepreneurial that kind of led me up to this one.
0:34:57 My entrepreneurial journey.
0:35:01 I owned a credit counseling company and I created like a business in a box
0:35:03 opportunity to show other people how to do what I was doing.
0:35:05 And my whole niche was creating homeowners.
0:35:10 I’d build a real estate portfolio, multifamily unit rental properties.
0:35:16 And I’d done a good job of automating and systems and people running my rentals for me.
0:35:18 Like I didn’t use property management companies.
0:35:20 I had people that worked for me and then my credit.
0:35:25 So it was kind of all the combination of things that led up to this to where once
0:35:29 I decided, okay, to continue to scale this, what do I want to do?
0:35:34 And really what I wanted to do is I wanted to create passive continuity.
0:35:35 I wanted to create reoccurring income.
0:35:42 And what was a way for me to do that, it was to have the model where I’m showing
0:35:46 somebody, but I’m also offering them support and I’m getting a percentage of the revenue.
0:35:50 So it actually happened through one of the Facebook groups for this industry up here
0:35:51 to peer Facebook group.
0:35:53 I was just in there sharing.
0:35:55 You know, you’re all excited about the thing that you’re doing, you know,
0:35:57 something there and I’m teaching people and sharing and this and that.
0:36:01 Some guy says, Hey, why don’t you start one of those up here in the upper
0:36:02 peninsula of Michigan?
0:36:03 Yeah.
0:36:05 And I was down in the lower peninsula, West Michigan.
0:36:07 I said, Yeah, let’s do it, man.
0:36:10 I said, tell you what, you be my guinea pig and we’ll start it.
0:36:11 I won’t charge you anything.
0:36:13 And then we’ll prove the model and then go from there.
0:36:14 And so that’s what I did.
0:36:18 And he’s still with us today, Kim, Kim in the upper peninsula of Michigan.
0:36:19 Okay.
0:36:19 Okay.
0:36:20 Yep.
0:36:22 And then I turned it into like a biz in a box.
0:36:26 I charged $995 and then I got a percentage of their revenue.
0:36:29 And then I had my office girls who were like answering the inquiries and
0:36:33 offering ongoing support to get a percentage of the revenue.
0:36:34 Oh, okay.
0:36:34 Okay.
0:36:38 So it was kind of a hybrid model, like this education component, plus
0:36:41 ongoing support, plus we’ll still take a, you succeed.
0:36:43 We succeed type of thing.
0:36:44 We’re still going to take a fee.
0:36:44 Okay.
0:36:44 Yeah.
0:36:48 So it’s like, yeah, kind of a white glove service and we offer this and that.
0:36:51 And then it went to, okay, now it’s $5,000.
0:36:53 Now it’s $10,000.
0:36:55 And now we offer this and we offer that.
0:36:58 And now we’re going to manage your website and your social media.
0:37:01 Oh, we negotiated a special agreement with RV share.
0:37:03 You get part of that agreement.
0:37:06 And I had a handful of locations.
0:37:09 My location was running on autopilot.
0:37:11 I had sold my credit counseling business on owner finance.
0:37:14 I had built a decent real estate portfolio.
0:37:16 So I had a good amount of revenue coming in from all these sources.
0:37:20 And so I just, I really got kind of passive and was just hanging out.
0:37:22 And there was the Lord again.
0:37:24 He said, it’s time to franchise.
0:37:26 I said, no, thank you.
0:37:30 And a week or a month later, he’s like, it’s time to franchise.
0:37:31 And it was a couple of months conversation.
0:37:34 Finally, I did it just like you said, right?
0:37:35 Red tape.
0:37:37 I mean, this, it cost me six figures to do it.
0:37:39 It took over a year to do it.
0:37:43 It was, I mean, our franchise disclosure documents, like 200 pages, not wired that
0:37:43 way.
0:37:45 I want to run and hustle and grind.
0:37:50 I don’t want documents and red tape and FTC and all that kind of stuff.
0:37:51 But I did it.
0:37:55 We walked through the process and here we are today.
0:37:55 Well, very good.
0:38:00 You’re signing up people all over the place to start their own fireside RV
0:38:03 rental chapter franchise in their local area.
0:38:05 You said 45 locations around the country at this point.
0:38:06 Yeah.
0:38:10 I think we got about 45 locations and hundreds and hundreds of RVs under management.
0:38:11 Yeah.
0:38:12 It’s just world domination.
0:38:14 One RV at a time.
0:38:15 Fascinating.
0:38:20 Is there a target that you say, we want to be in the top
0:38:21 hundred RV market?
0:38:22 Like, how do you even measure?
0:38:23 Like, where does this thing go?
0:38:25 We want a hundred franchisees.
0:38:27 We want some level of bookings every season or something.
0:38:31 You know, it’s interesting as you grow as an entrepreneur, your goals are
0:38:32 constantly changing, right?
0:38:39 The goal was, okay, I want a eight figure valuation by the end of 2024.
0:38:42 That was the goal, the beginning of last year.
0:38:47 And then the goal, I just went to a conference mastermind junkie.
0:38:49 I just, I love going to conferences and learning and all that.
0:38:52 And then after I just went to this recent conference, I’m like, okay, the
0:38:56 goal is 250 locations by the end of 2024.
0:38:59 One of the speakers there was Dr. Benjamin Hardy.
0:39:03 And he spoke on his book, 10X is easier than 2X.
0:39:07 He just talked about just set goals that like completely blow out the floor.
0:39:08 You have to rethink everything.
0:39:09 Like you’re starting from scratch.
0:39:12 So I talked to my business partner like 250 locations.
0:39:13 That’s the goal.
0:39:17 So we hired a marketing firm and we got leads just flooding every day.
0:39:22 And then it was really, it was like, none of those are my goals anymore.
0:39:27 It’s really just serving the people that join our community and just living a
0:39:29 balanced life is the goal now.
0:39:30 So we do that, right?
0:39:32 We’re generating 40, 50 franchise leads a day.
0:39:36 I’m on 30, 40 calls a week, I hire a sales rep.
0:39:37 He’s on 30, 40 calls.
0:39:39 And I’m in this extreme imbalance.
0:39:40 I’m like, I don’t want that.
0:39:41 You know, I want the balance.
0:39:44 I want, you’re constantly reevaluating, you know, as an entrepreneur.
0:39:48 It’s amazing how quickly the goals turn and shift.
0:39:49 Yeah.
0:39:52 You get used to a certain level of success and comfort.
0:39:54 And then the goalpost moves again.
0:39:59 It’s some level of hedonic adaptation, but it’s some level of going back to
0:40:02 your six figure summer and saying, well, how much is enough?
0:40:03 What are we doing this for?
0:40:06 Are we, we’re good, you know, it’s going back to the time with the family,
0:40:10 supporting the people in the community, being a part of that community.
0:40:12 I think it’s definitely an interesting one.
0:40:14 I appreciate you sharing all of that.
0:40:20 Mywheelestatestory.com, that’s Wheel Estate, like wheels on your RV.
0:40:22 You can check out Gar’s book over there.
0:40:25 Mywheelestatestory.com, love it.
0:40:29 And FiresideRVRental.com, you can check them out over there.
0:40:33 Let’s wrap this thing up with your number one tip for side hustle nation.
0:40:35 All work works.
0:40:39 I’ve really been digging that saying the last year is as entrepreneurs, we do
0:40:43 something and it doesn’t work out the way that we think it does, that it should.
0:40:49 And we think it was a failure, but really all work, all action that we take works.
0:40:52 And it’s either working on us, it’s changing us.
0:40:56 It’s helping us to grow as a person, overcome insecurities, fears, doubts
0:40:59 worries, or it’s doing the thing we want to do.
0:41:01 It’s working for us, like there’s results, right?
0:41:04 We’re generating, we’re adding customers, the business is growing.
0:41:07 But I just, I want to encourage people in that all work works.
0:41:10 So it works on you, it works for you.
0:41:14 But the biggest thing is don’t stop doing the things, don’t stop doing the work.
0:41:19 And do you have an example of some work that didn’t work out the way you wanted it to?
0:41:21 You’re like, I reached a dead end and now I got to go back.
0:41:25 You know, just with the recent marketing that we started doing, we hired a marketing firm
0:41:31 that just for their monthly services, it was $10,000 a month plus our ad spend.
0:41:33 And that was a huge step of faith for us.
0:41:39 And what we realized was after these two and a half months that we were with them is
0:41:42 all we really needed to do was increase our ad spend.
0:41:46 But it was when I had that all in, like we’re going to 250 locations.
0:41:47 Yeah.
0:41:49 Kind of dropping the floor out from under me.
0:41:51 It was, OK, we’re all in.
0:41:53 So we hired this marketing firm.
0:41:55 Yeah, we learned a bunch of amazing stuff from them.
0:42:00 But the biggest thing we learned is really if we would have simply just increased
0:42:01 because that’s part of what they had us do.
0:42:03 We increased our ad spend by five fold.
0:42:08 If we would have just done that to begin with, we would have been very similar results.
0:42:09 Save the $10,000 fee.
0:42:11 Yeah, but you think, right?
0:42:13 OK, we’re going big leagues now.
0:42:14 We need to do all these things.
0:42:18 And we did learn some amazing things and we’re still using them on a lower scale.
0:42:20 But it was funny in hindsight.
0:42:23 We learned like really, we just could have increased our ad spend.
0:42:27 But we learned a lot about our metrics and how much it costs us to book a call
0:42:29 and our average customer value.
0:42:31 We learned a lot of important things.
0:42:35 So the work definitely worked inside of us and taught us a bunch of stuff.
0:42:39 But really what worked for us was just increasing our ad spend by five times.
0:42:41 All right, fair enough.
0:42:44 But it’s one of those things where, like you said, all work works.
0:42:47 You don’t know until you test it out and see what happens.
0:42:49 So I appreciate you sharing that.
0:42:53 And I think that is definitely relevant for side hustle show listeners.
0:42:56 Like you might be feeling like you’re grinding away at something.
0:43:01 But even if it’s not getting you the results you want, it is still hopefully
0:43:06 resulting in some level of education or improving your skills and processes
0:43:10 in some area that you can pivot and apply to something else if need be.
0:43:14 Or, you know, to keep on going and breaking through all work works.
0:43:17 That may be a new one from six hundred and something episodes.
0:43:18 I may not have heard that one before.
0:43:22 So I like that one couple of takeaways for me before we wrap.
0:43:26 And number one is thinking of these expensive underutilized assets.
0:43:29 That’s the sweet spot to make a rental business work where especially
0:43:33 and maybe a bulky item that somebody may not want to travel with.
0:43:35 Like we had a mobility scooter rental episode.
0:43:37 That was really interesting.
0:43:39 We’ve seen people do this with photo booths
0:43:43 with what’s called like a champagne wall or like a donut peg board
0:43:45 that we rent out for like weddings or something.
0:43:49 It’s like it’ll cost you one afternoon and a hundred bucks worth of materials
0:43:50 to build this thing.
0:43:52 You rent it out for a hundred bucks per wedding.
0:43:53 I love businesses like that.
0:43:58 So I think that’s fascinating stuff and then just tapping into existing
0:44:00 marketplaces, the RV shares of the world.
0:44:04 Like if something like that exists in whatever niche that you are considering,
0:44:06 that’s probably a good sign.
0:44:10 And if you can go and recruit other people to say, hey, have you ever thought
0:44:13 about putting your thing up for rent there or even if you are.
0:44:16 But maybe it’s a pain like you mentioned with the other RV owner.
0:44:18 Like is it really worth the time effort?
0:44:20 Oh, hey, we’ll do all the work for you.
0:44:22 Just pay us half the fee and we’ll take care of it for you.
0:44:24 Make it easy, make it easy.
0:44:28 Now, we’ve been chatting RVs in this episode, but like we’ve kind of tossed
0:44:32 in here or there, certainly not the only things that you can rent out for a profit.
0:44:35 Get your creative juices flow and I want to invite you to download
0:44:38 your exclusive listener only bonus for this episode.
0:44:43 That’s my list of 25 other unconventional rental ideas.
0:44:45 Just hit the link in the episode description.
0:44:47 You’ll be able to grab that for free.
0:44:50 Now, as promised at the top of the show, we talked about four types of passive income.
0:44:54 One is Gar’s model, renting out other people’s stuff or renting.
0:44:57 You don’t have to be other people’s stuff, but just renting something out.
0:44:59 Get paid over and over again from something that you buy once.
0:45:01 Love it. And maybe maybe you don’t even have to buy it.
0:45:03 I think it’s a creative example.
0:45:04 So that’s number one.
0:45:07 Number two is to buy cash flowing assets.
0:45:09 This is the old takes money to make money option.
0:45:11 This could be dividend investing.
0:45:12 This could be real estate.
0:45:14 This could be business lending, stuff like that.
0:45:15 Great model.
0:45:18 If the important part, if you already have money to invest.
0:45:19 That’s the bottleneck for most people.
0:45:21 Third one is to build assets.
0:45:23 This is the sweat equity option.
0:45:25 This is building something of value.
0:45:27 It could be a digital product.
0:45:28 It could be a website.
0:45:32 It could be a collection of YouTube videos on a video channel.
0:45:34 Could earn advertising revenue.
0:45:37 This is the space that I have typically played in the sweat equity option,
0:45:40 trying to build passive income assets.
0:45:43 Obviously takes a lot of time, takes a lot of creative energy to do that,
0:45:47 but can run relatively passive or relatively time leveraged.
0:45:48 Sometimes for years, if set up right.
0:45:51 And the fourth one is probably the most overlooked one.
0:45:55 And this is what I call reverse passive income is what you earn when you cut
0:45:57 your ongoing monthly expenses.
0:46:00 You switch your cell phone providers, you cut out the gym membership.
0:46:01 You start working out from home.
0:46:04 It’s the saving money is go straight to your bottom line.
0:46:06 Reverse passive income model.
0:46:09 Those are the four that I teased at the top of the show.
0:46:12 But Gar, thanks so much for sharing your insight.
0:46:15 Big thanks to our sponsors for helping make this content free for everyone.
0:46:20 You can hit up side hustle nation dot com slash deals for all the latest offers
0:46:22 from our sponsors in one place.
0:46:24 Thank you for supporting the advertisers that support the show.
0:46:25 That’s it for me.
0:46:28 Thank you so much for tuning in until next time.
0:46:30 Let’s go out there and make something happen.
0:46:33 And I’ll catch you in the next edition of the side hustle show.
0:46:34 Hustle on.
0:46:42 [BLANK_AUDIO]

0:00:03 The ten most profitable side hustles.
0:00:05 What’s up? What’s up, Nick Loper here.
0:00:07 Welcome to the side hustle show.
0:00:09 We’re part of the entrepreneur podcast network.
0:00:12 And this is the business podcast you can actually apply.
0:00:17 One question I get quite a bit is what are the most profitable side hustles?
0:00:18 Let’s get to the chase, right?
0:00:21 And there’s a couple of ways to think about profitability.
0:00:26 The first is in terms of profit margin of every dollar that your side hustle
0:00:29 or business brings in how much actually flows through to the bottom line.
0:00:33 After all your cost of goods, after all your expenses in running the business.
0:00:35 And that’s the inspiration for this episode.
0:00:39 Actually, this spring, we did an episode on Amazon Wholesale where my
0:00:43 guest explained that if you were to win 10% margins as a wholesaler,
0:00:45 you were crushing it.
0:00:49 And I was kind of taken aback by that coming from the online content world
0:00:52 where it’s not uncommon to have 80% margins.
0:00:57 Of course, the other way to look at profitability is just in terms of
0:00:58 raw dollars.
0:01:00 Walmart is the perfect example here.
0:01:05 They are earning $10 to $15 billion in profit per year, but they got to sell
0:01:09 $500 to $600 billion worth of stuff to earn that profit.
0:01:15 Low margins, but huge, huge volume still can add up to a super profitable
0:01:16 business.
0:01:19 But in this episode, we’re mostly going to look at side hustles in the
0:01:24 first category, the higher margin, lean operation, lower overhead variety.
0:01:27 But number one on this list is one that actually checks both boxes.
0:01:28 High margin, high volume.
0:01:33 And that’s a recurring web design and web hosting service inspired by
0:01:40 Ryan Golgowski of 180sites.com and episode 550 of the side hustle show.
0:01:44 Ryan’s built an incredible business designing and hosting websites
0:01:47 primarily for the power washing industry.
0:01:51 If you can believe that, but rather than charging a few thousand dollars
0:01:54 upfront for the site, which most of his customers would say, yeah, no,
0:01:55 thanks, we’re good.
0:01:59 Instead, he charges around 200 bucks a month for 24 months and then has a
0:02:01 lower priced maintenance package after that.
0:02:08 And when we recorded, he’d just had his first $100,000 month all with a very
0:02:13 lean operation, volume plus margins, super inspiring business.
0:02:14 Here’s how he described it.
0:02:20 If having a better website that is going to offer a better user experience,
0:02:21 it’s going to better your SEO.
0:02:24 There’s going to be better conversion optimization on the site.
0:02:28 Even if it’s just generating for you one extra sale a month, you know,
0:02:31 that’s extremely conservative way to look at it.
0:02:34 It’s the service is already being paid for and then some.
0:02:37 It’s a pretty simple, easy sell.
0:02:42 Whereas like if I were to try to sell a website for five grand, a lot
0:02:46 of people sell websites for even more than that 10 grand for a company
0:02:49 that’s not doing millions of dollars in sales.
0:02:50 That’s like a huge number to them.
0:02:58 And it’s hard for them to justify, but 180, 220, 300 bucks a month and they’re
0:03:02 not only going to get more leads, they’re also going to look a lot better.
0:03:05 So there’s going to be so much more perceived value to their marketplace.
0:03:11 They’re going to be perceived as the high end, luxury, most professional
0:03:12 service provider.
0:03:15 And you’re doing several of these a week at this point.
0:03:16 Sounds like volume wise.
0:03:17 Yes.
0:03:17 Yeah.
0:03:21 So 20 a month, give or take, sometimes less.
0:03:29 But last year we did 211 new signups and this year shooting for 250.
0:03:29 Yeah.
0:03:35 Listeners can do the math on that and say, wow, that’s pretty substantial operation.
0:03:40 And now once it’s in on the developer’s desk, what’s their typical turnaround
0:03:44 time to get this thing up for approval or up for hosting?
0:03:44 Yeah.
0:03:49 So the initial stage of development, it should have about a week’s time max.
0:03:51 They could get it done quicker than that.
0:03:53 Then it will go to the project manager.
0:03:55 They’ll be going back and forth with the client.
0:03:58 If they need any revisions that will go back to the developer.
0:04:02 If we’re doing content that will take a little bit of extra time for us.
0:04:04 If they’re doing content, it could be fast.
0:04:06 It could take a year.
0:04:06 Who knows?
0:04:13 But we shoot for about a four week timeframe for the project from the time
0:04:15 they sign up to the time their site goes live.
0:04:16 Okay.
0:04:16 Okay.
0:04:20 Just to give yourself some buffer room in case there’s any back and forth.
0:04:21 Okay.
0:04:21 Cool.
0:04:26 And do you consider the upfront developer time and some of these other upfront costs?
0:04:29 Like, is there a sense of the break-even point?
0:04:31 Well, after three months, we’re good.
0:04:33 Or after six months, like it’s all gravy.
0:04:37 And so if we can keep that person on for six months and keep them happy.
0:04:40 Like, I mean, they, yeah, they signed the contract, but who knows?
0:04:43 I just try to get figured out for like, yeah, you’ve run some labor and some
0:04:45 other expenses upfront here.
0:04:45 Yeah.
0:04:45 Yeah.
0:04:47 Definitely starting out.
0:04:53 It is not as efficient or profitable, but over time, you’ll really refine your
0:04:57 systems and you should be able to at least your fixed costs should be covered by
0:05:00 about two months of the customer’s payments.
0:05:06 Fixed costs covered by two months of customer payments, meaning the next 22
0:05:08 months are almost pure profit.
0:05:11 Again, that’s episode 550 in your archives.
0:05:17 Definitely one that I refer back to quite a bit and likely replicable in tons of
0:05:17 different niches.
0:05:20 Again, Brian was focusing on power washing companies.
0:05:23 So that’s number one, starting a recurring web design service.
0:05:26 Number two is to start a content business.
0:05:31 What I mean by a content business is a helpful website, a podcast, a YouTube
0:05:33 channel, a social media following.
0:05:38 And the reason it makes this list is this combination of being super scalable
0:05:40 and having relatively low costs.
0:05:44 For example, it takes the same effort to write an article that a hundred people
0:05:47 read as it does to create one that a hundred thousand people read.
0:05:49 And it’s the same for other types of content as well.
0:05:54 And then on the other side, your costs are usually fixed or they’re tied to
0:05:58 performance in some way so that they scale with reach and revenue.
0:06:02 Some of the most successful business owners I know play in this space and
0:06:05 it’s where I spend most of my effort as well, creating episodes like this one
0:06:09 along with creating and maintaining the library of written content on
0:06:12 the Side Hustle Nation site as traffic increases, so does revenue.
0:06:16 Andrew Fiebert runs the affiliate tracking software Lasso and also
0:06:19 the gift ideas site giftlab.co.
0:06:24 Now, I’ve often talked about YouTube videos or blog posts as planting little
0:06:27 money seeds, these little digital assets, putting them out into the world.
0:06:30 And that’s really similar to how Andrew described running an online
0:06:33 content business in episode 537.
0:06:39 I kind of liken blogging to you have this like bag of seed and you’re
0:06:42 just grabbing fistfuls and you’re throwing the seed out there.
0:06:48 And when you start, 80% are landing on the street or the sidewalk or birds
0:06:49 eating it.
0:06:53 And as you get better, you’re like, oh, I need to put it on the grass or I
0:06:54 need to put it in dirt.
0:07:00 And so I think a lot of like the research and prep orient us towards that.
0:07:04 And then the more confidence we have in our publishing process for that
0:07:06 site and our ability to rank.
0:07:10 I feel like we’re able to pay more or rather scale the team better.
0:07:17 Some things are just going to miss and oftentimes things that miss are better
0:07:19 than the things that hit and rank.
0:07:26 We try and think less about like every articles ROI than how do we get more
0:07:32 hits and how do we make sure that 80% of what we create is profitable say
0:07:35 within the first like year, year and a half.
0:07:37 And then after that, I mean, it’s all margin.
0:07:42 So it’s really about like how do we land as many of those seeds as
0:07:45 possible in fertile soil?
0:07:46 Right.
0:07:47 That’s the other piece of the pie here.
0:07:51 It’s like, well, you can spend money creating all these articles that never
0:07:53 make it past the top of page two.
0:07:55 And you’re like, well, great.
0:07:56 Nobody sees those.
0:07:59 It’s like playing almost like mini venture capitalists.
0:08:02 Like, okay, I’m going to put a bunch of money on, you know, spread across 10
0:08:03 different bets.
0:08:07 Hopefully your odds are better than a typical VC and like you can land five
0:08:10 or eight of them on the first page and then you can kind of track
0:08:14 their revenue or affiliate commissions from there.
0:08:15 That was just, I don’t know.
0:08:16 You seem very dialed in on the numbers.
0:08:17 I was like, nope.
0:08:19 After six months, everything is gravy.
0:08:23 But it’s like, okay, after a year, year and a half, we have broken even on
0:08:23 that article.
0:08:27 And meanwhile, we already have our whole backlog of archive content that
0:08:30 is spinning and generating traffic and revenue for us.
0:08:31 It’s a multi-phase process.
0:08:35 So the first is you create, you publish, and then like, I don’t know,
0:08:37 hopefully the Google gods give it you traffic.
0:08:42 And then if it is getting traction, then it falls into our optimization
0:08:45 process where we’ll start to look at it.
0:08:47 What are the keywords that it is hitting?
0:08:49 Doesn’t need to be shifted slightly.
0:08:52 If it’s a gift list, we reorient items.
0:08:56 And so there are things that we create that I believe are excellent things
0:09:00 that we paid, you know, I’m listening to my Maris $450 for excellent.
0:09:05 And they get nothing ever that is relegated to the page 100 of Google.
0:09:08 And so then that was a bad bet clearly.
0:09:13 But if it starts to get traction, then it attracts our attention and we try
0:09:15 and lean into what is working.
0:09:19 Plant those seeds, give them the love and attention they need and pay attention
0:09:20 to what’s working.
0:09:23 Then go do more of that over its five year lifespan.
0:09:28 At the time we recorded gift lab had earned over $1.2 million in affiliate
0:09:32 commissions, but the interesting thing is that total was heavily weighted,
0:09:35 heavily back loaded to the final two years.
0:09:39 I think the first two years Andrew said it might have made a total of $50,000,
0:09:44 which is great, but it’s important to realize that this type of business
0:09:45 is a longer term play.
0:09:46 You got to stick with it.
0:09:50 And if you do, your efforts can really start to compound.
0:09:51 Now, I love content businesses.
0:09:53 I identify as a creator.
0:09:56 Like I know a lot of listeners do as well, which is why starting a content
0:10:00 business is number two on our list of the most profitable side hustles.
0:10:05 Number three can pair really nicely with a content business, but it can
0:10:06 also stand alone.
0:10:07 I’ll tell you more about it.
0:10:10 Plus the rest of our most profitable side hustles right after this.
0:10:15 That’s the sound of another sale on your online Shopify store.
0:10:18 But did you know Shopify powers in person selling too?
0:10:19 It’s true.
0:10:23 Shopify is the sound of selling everywhere online, in store, on social
0:10:24 media and beyond.
0:10:29 Shopify POS is your command center for your retail store.
0:10:33 That means you can accept payments, manage inventory and track every sale
0:10:35 across your business in one place.
0:10:38 With Shopify, you get a powerhouse selling partner that helps you drive
0:10:42 store traffic with plug and play tools built for marketing campaigns
0:10:44 from TikTok to Instagram and beyond.
0:10:47 You can take payments by smartphone, transform your tablet into
0:10:52 a point of sale system or use Shopify’s POS go mobile device for
0:10:53 a battle tested solution.
0:10:57 Plus Shopify’s award winning help is there to support your success
0:10:58 every step of the way.
0:11:01 So do retail right with Shopify.
0:11:07 Go ahead sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com/sidehustle.
0:11:08 That’s all lowercase.
0:11:13 Go to Shopify.com/sidehustle to take your retail business to the next
0:11:14 level today.
0:11:17 Shopify.com/sidehustle.
0:11:18 All right.
0:11:22 Number three is digital products and these compare really nicely
0:11:23 with a content business.
0:11:27 It’s another place to direct the attention that your content attracts
0:11:32 to a printable file, a digital download, an ebook, an online course.
0:11:35 And we’ve seen some fun examples of side hustlers taking these files
0:11:39 directly to the people on platforms like Etsy and teachers pay teachers,
0:11:42 both of which allow you to tap into some existing demand.
0:11:46 You can leverage an existing customer base on both of those sites.
0:11:48 You’ve got automated file delivery.
0:11:50 They’re handling payment processing for you.
0:11:54 Lots of cool stuff and because your cost of good sold is essentially zero.
0:11:56 It’s like a digital PDF or something.
0:11:58 It’s just your time to create the thing.
0:12:01 A digital products business can be really profitable as well.
0:12:04 And you may not even have to start completely from scratch either.
0:12:10 One of the most popular episodes of last year was number 582 with Becky
0:12:14 Beach on using AI to help create some of these digital products.
0:12:16 Well, the home planner bundle.
0:12:18 I’m selling it for like $17.
0:12:21 You get like a few other printables in that bundle as well.
0:12:27 Like you also get a 2023 goal planner and I saw also a coloring page pack
0:12:31 and that same bundle and that sells for like $17 and also have like
0:12:33 an upsell where you can pay like $27.
0:12:35 You get a few more printables too.
0:12:36 And that does very well.
0:12:38 That’s like one of my upsells I have.
0:12:42 Yeah, I’m just thinking about the margins on this like $17 because
0:12:44 she’s next to nothing to fulfill.
0:12:47 Just lather and repeat, create something once, sell it over and over again.
0:12:49 Those are the types of side hustles that I like.
0:12:50 Exactly.
0:12:54 I used to do drop shipping when I first started an online business and that
0:12:55 was really difficult to do.
0:13:00 There was a lot of problems with like fulfillment because you have to rely
0:13:02 on somebody else to fulfill your products for you have no control over
0:13:03 the shipping.
0:13:05 So a lot of times I would get charged backs, but that’s why I turned
0:13:06 to digital products only.
0:13:07 Gotcha.
0:13:09 All right, fair enough.
0:13:10 So I’m okay.
0:13:13 I have an understanding of okay, going where the demand already is trying
0:13:17 to create something that people want, maybe smaller niche products and then
0:13:21 a bundle of something that would appeal to that entire per se look just one
0:13:22 low price.
0:13:25 You get all this stuff at a slight discount plus some different bonuses
0:13:31 coming pages now specific to either this home planner or any of the
0:13:33 related products in there.
0:13:39 Talk to me about the chat GPT or the AI assistedness of coming up with
0:13:39 that.
0:13:40 I think that’s an interesting angle.
0:13:45 You can actually ask chat GPT to give you product suggestions based on
0:13:49 your niche so you can do a prompt, which could be please give me a guy.
0:13:50 I’m really polite to chat GPT.
0:13:55 So all of a sudden like please give me like 10 product ideas and the money
0:13:58 saving niche for printables or digital products or just whatever.
0:13:59 And it will spit it out.
0:14:02 It will give you like 10 different product ideas or you can even ask
0:14:05 for 20 ideas or just any amount you wouldn’t want.
0:14:09 And it gives you all these ideas, but then you can also take that data.
0:14:13 It gave you actually go on and research for yourself to see if it’s
0:14:13 trending on Google.
0:14:18 If any of it is doing well on Etsy or people on Etsy getting sales
0:14:18 with this topic.
0:14:19 Yeah.
0:14:22 Have they come up with any good ones that you hadn’t considered before?
0:14:26 I really like the checklist idea that you were saying about the routine
0:14:26 checklist like that.
0:14:28 I think that’d be better than a planner.
0:14:31 So I want to do that, but you help me come up with that idea.
0:14:32 I don’t know.
0:14:34 Yeah.
0:14:36 So I typed in this is probably not the best prompt in the world.
0:14:40 Please give me some digital product ideas for printables in the side
0:14:41 hustle niche.
0:14:45 And it came back with business planner, budget tracker, social media,
0:14:50 content calendar, productivity, worksheets, Etsy shop optimization
0:14:54 checklist, which could easily be repurposed to a website optimization
0:14:54 checklist.
0:14:57 Actually, I have a whole book on the small business website checklist
0:14:59 from like 2013 or something.
0:15:01 Business card templates, market research worksheets.
0:15:03 I think that’s a really interesting one.
0:15:06 Like if you’re evaluating a different niche, like, okay, here’s how you
0:15:08 ought to go about thinking about that.
0:15:11 I think that’s really creative inventory management sheets.
0:15:15 If you’ve got a physical product expense deduction worksheets.
0:15:18 Like if you’re in the finance accounting space, that’s really
0:15:20 interesting one client management templates.
0:15:24 If you’re in a service based business logo and branding templates,
0:15:26 content creation templates.
0:15:27 That’s an interesting one.
0:15:31 Like, oh, we’re creating product reviews as part of our side hustle.
0:15:34 Like, you know, here’s kind of like a fill-in-the-blank template
0:15:38 that is proven based on some level of SEO metrics or something.
0:15:39 That’s interesting.
0:15:44 Self-care and work life balance planners, the product launch checklist.
0:15:46 I think I have a book launch checklist.
0:15:47 Like that’s an interesting one.
0:15:50 I think I just have as a freebie right now, but that could be a paid
0:15:55 product in certain spaces, customer feedback, surveys, printable coupons
0:15:57 and promotions affiliate marketing planner.
0:16:00 If you’re going out to recruit affiliates to sell your product,
0:16:03 here’s how you’re going to plan out your affiliate campaigns
0:16:05 and the skill development tracker.
0:16:06 Man, chat GPC.
0:16:10 I think these are pretty solid suggestions that it came up with just for that.
0:16:14 So you might try that prompt or a variation of it to see
0:16:15 what comes back in your space.
0:16:18 It just gives you so many really good product ideas.
0:16:21 Like, I like the launch checklist the best like that launch one, you know,
0:16:23 that show people how they could launch a product.
0:16:25 That’s a really solid idea right there.
0:16:26 Yeah.
0:16:28 The next stage would be like, cool.
0:16:31 Can you give me more details on number 18 or what steps would you
0:16:32 include in number 18?
0:16:37 Now you have the starter template for that eventual freebie or product.
0:16:41 Then of course, you’re going to add your own expertise and insight into.
0:16:44 You’re not probably going to just copy and paste this thing, but then go
0:16:45 out and create that thing.
0:16:46 So that’s all right.
0:16:49 Now you can start it a little bit, but more than that, it’s not just
0:16:51 copying and pasting into Microsoft Word.
0:16:56 Like you’re doing some level of beautification through Canva or through
0:16:58 some other graphic design to like, okay, you know, I’m going to make
0:17:01 these templates and spreadsheets look nice.
0:17:04 Look like something worth paying for rather than just the default fonts
0:17:08 in Excel or Google Sheets and saying, okay, hit print on this.
0:17:10 I do brand it into Canva.
0:17:11 I do like some formatting.
0:17:13 It’s really simple to use Canva.
0:17:15 Like it’s a very user friendly app.
0:17:18 I have a major in graphic design in college.
0:17:21 So it’s like probably easier for someone like me that knows design,
0:17:23 but sure, anybody could pick it up.
0:17:23 It’s like real simple.
0:17:26 There’s lots of free YouTube videos you could watch.
0:17:32 Again, that’s episode 582 with Becky Beach from mombeach.com, who when
0:17:36 we recorded reported earning around 30 grand a month, primarily from
0:17:37 her digital product sales.
0:17:41 Low overhead, create it once, sell it over and over again, adds up to
0:17:42 a very profitable business.
0:17:46 Another example of a digital product would be taking your knowledge
0:17:50 and experience in packaging it up into an online course like Jacques
0:17:55 Hopkins of piano in 21 days.com has done and he sold over $4 million
0:17:59 worth of that course through its various iterations over the last 10 plus
0:17:59 years.
0:18:04 Now at the top of his funnel, so to speak, is just a handful of well
0:18:09 made pieces of content that introduce new piano learners into his world.
0:18:13 There’s a lot that goes into an evergreen profitable online course
0:18:16 business, but it doesn’t need to be overly complicated either.
0:18:19 In fact, you might be closer than you think to getting in front of
0:18:20 your target students.
0:18:23 So I was already ranking on the first page of Google for terms like how
0:18:27 to play piano and learn piano fast and on YouTube as well.
0:18:31 And so people were searching for these things at an unprecedented rate.
0:18:35 And I was already there with an established working sales funnel and
0:18:38 a course that had proven results and testimonials.
0:18:45 For that time period, my record month was 145,000 in revenue.
0:18:45 Oh my God.
0:18:49 For one month from one course, we’ve obviously come back to Earth since
0:18:53 then, but that was amazing as far as my business goes.
0:18:58 I have a video on YouTube I made five years ago that still makes me tons
0:19:01 of sales every month because people are still finding that video and getting
0:19:02 value from that video.
0:19:06 Evergreen digital assets can be a really powerful engine in building
0:19:10 a profitable side hustle, especially if you got the systems in place to
0:19:12 capture and monetize that attention.
0:19:15 And in Jock’s case, it points to an Evergreen digital course, an Evergreen
0:19:19 online course, but you got to plant some seeds out there to find which
0:19:20 ones are going to work.
0:19:24 That’s number three on this list, digital products with tons of examples
0:19:27 in the podcast archives of side hustlers having success in that area.
0:19:32 We got a whole series with Jock who also runs the online course guy.com.
0:19:36 Definitely worth a follow if you want to build a course business.
0:19:40 Now, next on the list is kind of a unique one because it’s a physical
0:19:43 product business, which would typically mean lower margins.
0:19:47 The reason I’m including it here similar to a dropshipping business is you
0:19:49 don’t have to pay for the inventory until you sell it.
0:19:53 And that unique setup is made possible through an app called ShareTown,
0:19:55 which is number four on this list.
0:20:01 ShareTown specializes in these customer returns for bulky items like furniture,
0:20:05 mattresses, exercise equipment, pizza ovens from these direct to
0:20:06 consumer brands.
0:20:09 And in most cases, the reason for this is the brands can’t take
0:20:14 back these items on customer returns to resell as new because they’re
0:20:15 not new anymore.
0:20:20 It was a hundred night sleep trial satisfaction guarantee type of thing.
0:20:22 Customer decides, I don’t really like it.
0:20:24 So they want to get their money back.
0:20:29 The companies partner with ShareTown who intern partners with local reps,
0:20:33 including lots of side hustle show listeners at this point to go pick
0:20:35 up those items, clean them up and list them for resale.
0:20:39 After they sell, that’s when the reps pay ShareTown for the product,
0:20:44 pocketing 100 to $250 per item for their work.
0:20:45 And it definitely is work.
0:20:46 It’s, it’s driving.
0:20:47 It’s lifting.
0:20:47 It’s cleaning.
0:20:48 It’s marketing.
0:20:52 It’s communicating with customers, but it can add up to thousands of
0:20:55 dollars in extra income without a lot of risk.
0:21:00 This is Stacy Averto from Episode 501 explaining a bit more about
0:21:01 how it works.
0:21:05 When we get our item, we’ll schedule them out and we’ll usually
0:21:09 plan on two to three pickups per trip.
0:21:14 He’ll usually go out and pick up these items and then he brings them back.
0:21:19 And some need a little bit more TLC than others, but we’ll clean and
0:21:20 sanitize them and then we’ll flip them.
0:21:26 So ShareTown provides pictures for us, but we also are able to take our own.
0:21:30 So I think that’s a huge important part of selling is making sure
0:21:32 it looks good.
0:21:34 That’s good lighting, things like that.
0:21:38 The longer you do this, the more comfortable you are with each item and
0:21:42 the knowledge you have in the brands and things like that.
0:21:44 And so I’ll have a conversation with the customer and let them
0:21:46 know, answer their questions.
0:21:49 Sometimes they want to come and check out the item or they’re just like,
0:21:50 Hey, when can you deliver it?
0:21:55 And so whatever happens, we’ll go deliver that mattress or item.
0:22:00 And then once we get paid via Venmo or cash or, you know, all the different
0:22:06 options you can receive payment nowadays, once a week, we will pay ShareTown
0:22:09 for all of the items that we sold that week.
0:22:10 Okay.
0:22:15 So it’s on you to manage the profit margin or manage the spread there.
0:22:18 So let’s say, so you go out, you’ve batched these things.
0:22:20 I’m going to this area.
0:22:22 So I’m going to pick up two or three in the evening.
0:22:26 You bring them home, you clean them up, photograph them, list them on
0:22:31 marketplace on offer up on Craigslist, like whatever.
0:22:38 Is there a price floor that you know that you have to pay for this inventory
0:22:39 once it sells?
0:22:43 Like, and so you have to kind of mind your markups on top of that.
0:22:43 Yep.
0:22:48 So ShareTowns, they’ve created a minimalist price for areas like Phoenix
0:22:51 where there’s 15 plus of us within a five hour radius of each other.
0:22:56 They’ve created a minimum list price that we are required to list in
0:22:59 and then you’re provided with the amount that you owe to ShareTown.
0:23:03 So you’ll see the margin that you’ll be able to make and you’ll be able to
0:23:07 say, okay, I want to make at least this much on this mattress or item.
0:23:11 And I’ll say, hey, if you come pick it up, I can take $50 off.
0:23:15 My husband and I, we average about 250 ish per item.
0:23:17 We’re higher inventory reps.
0:23:22 And so if we’re kind of building up to the max, then we’ll be like, okay,
0:23:23 let’s just focus on turning over.
0:23:29 We’ll make 100 to 150 bucks per item and just get our inventory turned over.
0:23:31 Is your garage like filled with mattresses?
0:23:33 Yeah, it’s filled.
0:23:35 Well, and it’s not just mattresses.
0:23:40 Like we work with all our couches, beam bag things.
0:23:42 I mean, we work with lots of different items.
0:23:42 Okay.
0:23:43 Yeah.
0:23:45 Frames, bases.
0:23:49 So yeah, we started out with just our garage, which was a huge benefit for
0:23:52 us because we didn’t have to invest in a unit or anything like that.
0:23:55 Around a year-ish, we started talking.
0:23:58 We should invest in a unit so we can hold more inventory.
0:23:59 Okay.
0:23:59 Yeah.
0:24:04 I’m just thinking through the big bulky items, like having a vehicle to be able
0:24:08 to transport it, having the space to be able to store it while you’re waiting
0:24:11 for it to resell some things to consider here.
0:24:11 Definitely.
0:24:12 Yes.
0:24:14 How is share town tracking this stuff?
0:24:17 Or like, what happens if you have something that just isn’t moving that you
0:24:21 can’t resell and now you’re stuck with this inventory that you didn’t have to
0:24:25 pay for upfront, but ultimately is there a bill that comes do.
0:24:29 So there’s not, you won’t ever pay for an item until you’ve sold it.
0:24:34 And we’ve been doing it for almost three years and we’ve sold through every
0:24:35 item we’ve received.
0:24:38 I mean, I had those same concerns and questions.
0:24:42 You’ll see some brands like we have a waiting list for when we get a brand.
0:24:46 I just text or send out a message and say, Hey, we just got this in.
0:24:48 Did you find what you were looking for?
0:24:49 Are we still wanting it?
0:24:51 And it sold in a matter of seconds.
0:24:56 And then there are some brands that aren’t as well known and popular that we
0:25:00 kind of hang on to for a little bit longer, but everything has always sold.
0:25:03 Again, that was Stacy from episode 501.
0:25:06 If you want to learn a bit more, I’ll also link up our full share town
0:25:09 review and write up in the show notes for this episode.
0:25:12 If you’ve got a truck or a bigger SUV and want to give it a shot in your area,
0:25:17 be sure to hit up my referral link, side hustle nation dot com slash share town
0:25:19 to fast track your application.
0:25:22 Number five on this list is niche consulting.
0:25:26 And the reason it’s so profitable is there is essentially no overhead at all.
0:25:29 You’re just selling your own time and expertise.
0:25:34 We’ve heard from examples like Bradley Rice on his $200,000 plus per year income
0:25:36 working 18 hours a week.
0:25:40 It’s still trading time for money, but if you can trade time for a lot of money,
0:25:44 that’s a trade that might make sense to make depending on your goals, right?
0:25:48 So some of the highest paid consulting niches are those that piggyback
0:25:52 on a popular software tool like Bradley does with Salesforce.
0:25:55 Conversion copywriters can command really premium rates.
0:25:57 We’re talking lawyer money in some cases.
0:26:02 I mean, Liz Wilcox was on the show talking about landing a $20,000
0:26:03 copywriting project.
0:26:04 It’s no joke.
0:26:07 Some companies spend a ton of money on this stuff and it doesn’t have
0:26:09 to be a business niche either.
0:26:09 I want to point that out.
0:26:14 We heard from Jane Havens, who was earning 10 grand a month as a baby
0:26:19 and toddler sleep consultant where there is pain and uncertainty and a problem
0:26:20 to be solved.
0:26:22 There’s a business idea there.
0:26:24 I can link up that episode in the show notes as well.
0:26:26 It was 490, I want to say.
0:26:32 One of the interesting recent examples was Carter Osborne in episode 601.
0:26:37 Carter started out as an academic tutor, but found that market pretty crowded,
0:26:38 pretty saturated.
0:26:43 So he niched down to offer a college admissions essay consulting service.
0:26:45 Yes, this is a thing.
0:26:50 And by being so specialized, he was able to build a full-time income from it
0:26:51 on the side from his day job.
0:26:54 My flat rate right now is 225 an hour.
0:26:58 I think for the Seattle area for full suite college application consultants,
0:26:59 that’s a little bit on the low end.
0:27:02 Specialists tend to charge a little less than those full suite consultants
0:27:04 just because we don’t offer as many services.
0:27:07 So it’s a little bit on the low end mainly because I’m trying to scale up.
0:27:09 But the pricing question comes up a lot.
0:27:12 And I think in the interest of kind of sharing with listeners some
0:27:16 of the missteps that I took early on that hopefully they can avoid.
0:27:20 When I started out in this industry, I priced myself really, really low.
0:27:22 I priced myself at $75 an hour.
0:27:25 And at the time as a graduate student, that felt luxurious.
0:27:28 I didn’t really do a full market research to understand that in the world
0:27:30 of college admissions, that’s not only cheap.
0:27:32 That’s sort of suspiciously cheap.
0:27:35 That’s like what’s wrong with this guy that he’s not charged in $75.
0:27:38 And actually, I would not be surprised if a couple people saw my rate and said,
0:27:40 ooh, I don’t know if I really trust this.
0:27:41 I’m going to move on.
0:27:43 It’s like looking for the group on for skydiving.
0:27:47 You’re like, I don’t know if this is something I really want to discount on.
0:27:48 That’s exactly right.
0:27:49 That’s a great comparison.
0:27:50 Yeah.
0:27:51 Well, so that’s exactly it.
0:27:55 But I think my error back then is I remember thinking, okay, what am I worth?
0:27:58 You know, as a college admissions or as a college essay consultant,
0:27:59 what do I think I’m worth?
0:28:00 Well, I don’t have any experience.
0:28:04 And yes, I took some creative writing classes and I have Stanford on my resume.
0:28:08 But I don’t know if I’m really fully qualified to charge $200 an hour or something.
0:28:10 I think that was my error, right?
0:28:13 Because it’s not about what you internally think you’re worth.
0:28:15 It’s about what the market can handle, what they’re willing to respond to.
0:28:19 And that has nothing to do with your own self-worth or positionality or anything.
0:28:24 If I’d done proper market research and thought of it more as I’m an actor in this space
0:28:27 and less of what am I worth relative to other people in the field from
0:28:29 a sort of inherent emotional standpoint.
0:28:33 I think I pretty immediately would have seen you need to start out at over $100 an hour.
0:28:36 I would have started higher and it’s taken me a little while to scale to $225.
0:28:40 I think now I’m in a more comfortable place, but it was an interesting transition early on.
0:28:45 I like that note about starting out pricing too low, almost suspiciously low.
0:28:47 But again, that’s episode 601.
0:28:53 And the other thing that stood out from that call was that Carter does almost no proactive marketing.
0:28:56 All it took was one strategic partnership.
0:29:00 Another admissions consultant in this case who didn’t like doing the essay work
0:29:01 who started sending referrals his way.
0:29:05 And the reason I bring that up is you might be closer than you think.
0:29:09 I love geeking out on all the latest and greatest marketing strategies,
0:29:13 but to get off the ground, you might not need to do much of that at all.
0:29:17 So that’s number five, a high value niche consulting service,
0:29:19 which can be a super profitable side hustle.
0:29:22 The second half of this list is coming up right after this.
0:29:26 All right, we’ve done our first five most profitable side hustles.
0:29:30 And number six is a fun one where your product is almost free,
0:29:35 but people will pay a premium for it if it’s in the right location and that’s ice vending.
0:29:39 Now, the biggest drawback to this business is the machines can be pretty expensive
0:29:41 and depending on your location, it can be pretty seasonal.
0:29:45 But the raw margins are pretty enviable.
0:29:49 This is Steve Slagle from episode 579
0:29:52 on how the math shakes out in his ice vending business.
0:29:58 It costs about eight cents to make 10 pounds of ice, roughly.
0:30:04 Wow, let’s just say you’re selling that for $3 if your market supports that price.
0:30:09 So now you’re at $2.92 of profit back a little bit out of that for maybe
0:30:11 planned maintenance and some of those things.
0:30:16 But you’re probably going to land in the 240 range per bag.
0:30:19 It’s pretty tough to beat.
0:30:23 And if you can do, let’s say 20, 30, 40 bags a day,
0:30:29 you can see those profits start to rack up pretty quickly and your margin stays the same.
0:30:34 It doesn’t cost any more whether you produce 10 pounds of ice or 500 pounds of ice.
0:30:38 It’s still a kilowatt per hour usage on the power.
0:30:43 It’s still a certain amount of water coming into the machine and it’s almost fixed.
0:30:48 Now, obviously the power company is going to raise rates every year because everybody does,
0:30:56 but you’re still looking at a relatively low, low cost to produce a product that replenishes itself.
0:31:00 And that’s one of the nice things about the Everest machines is you don’t have to stock it.
0:31:07 It’s constantly running and replenishing itself, having an available product that you don’t have to go do anything for.
0:31:13 As long as the machine’s up and running, it’s making ice that’s ready to sell and then hopefully you’re making money.
0:31:20 It would be super seasonal in the Northwest, but a snack and drink vending machine at our local community pool would crush in the summer.
0:31:23 That’s on my side hustle wish list to see if we can make that happen.
0:31:26 Again, $579 on ice vending.
0:31:34 And if you want a broader view on vending machines and many employee-less markets in general, check out $599 with Mike Hoffman.
0:31:39 But ice vending makes our list as number six purely because those unit economics make me smile.
0:31:41 Oh, it costs eight cents to make this bag.
0:31:44 Number seven is a membership or community business.
0:31:51 Now, a lot of people are attracted to a membership model because of the recurring revenue component, which I get it.
0:31:52 That is attractive.
0:32:01 The most common membership structure that we see from side hustle show guests has two parts as a content or education component and a community component.
0:32:06 And the common logic there is that people come for the content, but they stay for the community.
0:32:13 And yes, it takes time and energy to foster and support that community and potentially to feed more content into the membership.
0:32:16 But it’s a model that can naturally scale pretty well.
0:32:22 If you’ve got 100 members and $100 a month, you’re at $10,000 a month.
0:32:29 And you’ve got some levers to play with there, too, on growth, on pricing, on retention, on add-on offers, where it can be really profitable.
0:32:33 So that’s the common membership model that we see, content plus community.
0:32:37 But I wanted to share a different example from years ago on the show.
0:32:41 And that’s Jack Spearcoe’s member support brigade.
0:32:41 I think he called it.
0:32:46 Jack’s been hosting the survival podcast probably 15 years at this point, maybe longer.
0:32:56 And when we spoke, the biggest piece of his revenue pie was from this unique membership model where it wasn’t about getting extra content or exclusive content.
0:33:08 It wasn’t necessarily about access to a forum or community, but it was about getting exclusive annual access to a bunch of deals and discounts that Jack had negotiated for his followers.
0:33:11 Here’s how he explained it way back on episode 319.
0:33:16 So the way it works is a listener will sign up 50 bucks a year.
0:33:19 Sometimes I run sales, sometimes I run a lifetime sale.
0:33:22 So I do that a couple of times, usually really once a year.
0:33:26 Like today I did that and we did $4,500 worth of sales in an hour.
0:33:30 That was a nice little bonus that we paid ourselves for Christmas.
0:33:37 So that listener signs up for whatever duration and they’re on an automatic renewal because that’s just smart from a business standpoint.
0:33:42 Of course, they can cancel anytime they want and they get a login to the private side of the site.
0:33:47 They log into there and the big value add again is we call it the benefits section.
0:33:51 They click on benefits and there’s about 70 companies that offer discounts.
0:33:57 Imagine if the AAA discounts, the AAA says they give you were actually discounts, right?
0:33:58 The stuff you actually use.
0:34:00 That’s kind of what our program is.
0:34:03 We have discounts on firearms, parts and components.
0:34:05 We have discounts on seeds.
0:34:07 We have discounts on plants.
0:34:12 We have a couple, they’re kind of like general store of prepping type that have everything and anything you think of.
0:34:17 Water filters, Berkey water filters are probably the premier water filters in the prepper space.
0:34:19 We have a discount on those.
0:34:22 So we have discounts on all these different products and some of them are not really even prepper products.
0:34:26 So we have one on a company called EcoSense and I’m like, people will dig that from there.
0:34:28 They don’t justify to their wives while they have this program.
0:34:29 That works.
0:34:30 We have one called Olive Basket.
0:34:32 Those infused olive oils and vinegar.
0:34:34 So cooking products, et cetera.
0:34:36 So any company thinks they’re good fit will look at them.
0:34:40 And if they are, we’ll say, okay, write your own blurb.
0:34:45 If you do a membership program and you do discounts, I really encourage you to come up with guidance like word count, whatever.
0:34:48 Make the customer write their own blurb.
0:34:51 That way, if anybody doesn’t understand something, it’s their fault, not yours.
0:34:52 You’ll change it.
0:34:53 You see what I’m saying?
0:34:57 Otherwise, like he crafted for them and the customer gets the wrong idea about what the discount means.
0:35:07 So you make the right your own blurb, we drop them in there and I shoot to add about six to 12 new partner companies a year and some of them are small businesses.
0:35:09 So you’ll have some turnover.
0:35:13 If you do this, either they’ll stop doing it or the guy will go off and do something else or just continue.
0:35:20 The only product you had discounted by requirement is one, I don’t do a contract, but I expect kind of a virtual handshake.
0:35:22 We agree to do this together for a year.
0:35:24 So there’s stability in my program.
0:35:26 If it really doesn’t work for you, I’ll shut it off.
0:35:33 But we go in with kind of the understanding that’s the goal and that the discount not be something you do all the time for everybody anyway.
0:35:39 It has to be something that’s exclusive doesn’t mean you can’t do it around the holidays or twice a year or something.
0:35:41 But my people get access to it 24/7.
0:35:45 And as long as they’re willing to do that, it’s a quality product and I trust the company.
0:35:51 I’ll bring them on board and that makes the sale easy because of the customer who listens to you every day.
0:35:55 Looks at the people doing the discounts and says, well, I buy from them already.
0:36:00 And I don’t buy from them, but I buy that product and I’m happy to buy from them since they support us.
0:36:09 And I use herbal supplements and I use this and I do the math in my head and I’m going to get 70 bucks in discounts to give this guy 50 bucks.
0:36:11 Do I like anyway?
0:36:13 Well, done.
0:36:16 And as long as they’re making a profit, they retain.
0:36:24 I’ve had customers that are eight years retained because if you had something that’s giving you a hundred dollars worth of discounts you’re paying 50 bucks for.
0:36:28 Like you have poor financial sense if you cancel that product.
0:36:29 Yeah, I like this a lot.
0:36:33 Actually, this is kind of a digital coupon book in a way.
0:36:37 I think in Seattle, they used to have like the entertainment book or something we used to get when we were kids.
0:36:40 It’s like a digital coupon book or even a Costco membership.
0:36:43 Yeah, I’m definitely going to get more than 50 bucks out of this.
0:36:43 So it’s a no brainer.
0:36:46 I really like that is the pitch just on air.
0:36:51 They joined the support brigade for 50 bucks a year and get access to all these exclusive deals.
0:36:55 And as you might imagine, this model scales really well.
0:37:01 The incremental cost of a new member is essentially zero and Jack keeps the whole operation really lean.
0:37:05 It’s me and my wife and my dogs and the ducks.
0:37:08 That’s that’s really the team here.
0:37:08 Right.
0:37:12 So the dog sits on the floor while I podcast and wants to feed up.
0:37:16 My wife does all my booking for me when a guest submits a form.
0:37:19 She takes it from there Wednesday morning like magic.
0:37:21 A form shows up on my desk.
0:37:26 I researched the guest and by the time we’re doing the interview at one o’clock, I know enough about him to do the show intelligently.
0:37:28 We stay very, very lean on it.
0:37:30 So we have no cost.
0:37:36 Our costs are all web hosting and anything else I can convince the government is related to the show.
0:37:40 Meals out or taking a vacation or something like that.
0:37:42 There’s no buddy to pay.
0:37:45 There’s no, you know, what’s your margin on a membership?
0:37:51 I don’t know the biggest expense is the buck 40 that PayPal or Stripe charges me to run the charge.
0:37:57 There is a cost to deliver that, but the cost is the same for a thousand members as it is for 10,000.
0:38:00 Could you set up something similar in your niche?
0:38:06 I thought it was a pretty creative example of creating value for all parties while doing a really profitable business as well.
0:38:09 That’s number seven, a membership business.
0:38:14 Number eight is another opportunity for recurring revenue and that’s product licensing.
0:38:17 This is where you come up with a product idea.
0:38:22 Usually it’s some iteration or evolution on something that’s already existing, that’s already out in the market.
0:38:29 And then you pitch it to bigger companies, companies with the production and distribution and marketing firepower to really bring it to life.
0:38:39 Rather than you trying to find a manufacturer to drum up support for a Kickstarter campaign to fund the thing and, you know, try and get the thing off the ground all on your own.
0:38:45 This is the side hustle that appeals to all the modern day inventors who look at products and think of all the ways they could be better.
0:38:53 And companies have a history of doing this and in a lot of cases have a built-in process for accepting submissions from outsiders like you and me.
0:38:59 It’s their way of crowdsourcing some innovation at a relatively low cost.
0:39:01 So what’s a typical licensing deal worth?
0:39:03 Well, here’s Stephen Key from Invent Right.
0:39:07 He’s a resident expert on this business and he explained it this way.
0:39:09 What is a good deal?
0:39:11 A good deal is when they’re selling a lot of product.
0:39:13 That’s a good deal.
0:39:15 An average royalty is about five percent.
0:39:21 What’s really more important is make sure it has minimum guarantees, meaning that they have to sell X amount.
0:39:23 If not, you get it back.
0:39:24 It’s your best protection.
0:39:25 What do you mean by that?
0:39:26 It’s really easy.
0:39:28 Most companies are going to want an exclusive.
0:39:29 All right.
0:39:30 We see your idea.
0:39:31 We’re going to take it.
0:39:33 We’re going to spend all our money, but we want an exclusive.
0:39:36 So make sure they’ve got a lot of stores, right?
0:39:38 Make sure they’re the right partner for you.
0:39:38 Okay.
0:39:41 So I sent my sell sheet out to five or 10 different companies.
0:39:43 You know, maybe I got a couple of responses.
0:39:45 The one person is pretty serious about it.
0:39:46 One company is pretty serious.
0:39:47 They say, okay, we want to do this.
0:39:49 We want an exclusive deal.
0:39:52 They’ll say we want a worldwide exclusive.
0:39:54 It’s amazing how greedy these guys get.
0:39:57 But basically you want them to be greedy.
0:39:58 Okay, so great.
0:40:02 Now, what you’re going to do is that you’re going to add up all the stores that they’re in and you’re going to do the math.
0:40:03 They’re going to sell one a week.
0:40:07 If they don’t sell one a week, it’s going to get kicked to the curb at retail.
0:40:09 So now you’ve done the math.
0:40:14 You know, they’re in 25,000 stores and they’re going to sell one a week.
0:40:17 So that’s, you know, 100,000 a month.
0:40:22 Would they tell you how many stores they’re expecting distribution in or you just have to guess?
0:40:23 Well, you don’t have to guess.
0:40:25 Just ask them what stores you’re in.
0:40:25 Okay.
0:40:32 So now you realize, well, they’re going to sell, you know, a couple of million units a year easy.
0:40:34 My royalty is on the wholesale price.
0:40:38 And so now I’ve got an estimate of what I’m going to make.
0:40:38 Right.
0:40:41 So now I’m going to give you an exclusive.
0:40:47 Now, if I give you an exclusive and I don’t have any type of performance clause, I just gave it to you for free.
0:40:47 Yeah.
0:40:51 So I have to have some type of minimum that you have to sell.
0:40:53 If you don’t sell it, maybe get bored with it.
0:40:54 Maybe do a lousy job.
0:40:56 Hey, I need to get it back.
0:40:59 So you set the minimum guarantees the first year, very, very low.
0:41:01 Second year is a little higher.
0:41:05 And then the third year is you hit them between the eyes with it, make sure they’re doing a good job.
0:41:09 And this is on, you know, number of unit sales or like money in your pocket.
0:41:16 So it really comes, the rotating label that I just mentioned, the minimum guarantees were $750,000 for me.
0:41:19 They had to sell with royalties coming to me.
0:41:20 They had to sell that much.
0:41:21 So that is okay.
0:41:23 Now this is free for you to license to somebody else.
0:41:24 Yes.
0:41:25 And guess what?
0:41:26 They paid for all the patents too.
0:41:27 Oh, okay.
0:41:29 So they paid for 13 patents.
0:41:31 They went in a different direction.
0:41:33 They gave it all back to me up to five years.
0:41:35 So then I licensed it to another company.
0:41:36 I’ve been doing that for 20 years.
0:41:37 Oh, okay.
0:41:38 It’s a fun game.
0:41:39 It’s really fun.
0:41:42 Even when they mess up, it’s even fun because then you get it back, find somebody else to take it.
0:41:43 It’s interesting.
0:41:47 But what I like about it, you can kind of design your life.
0:41:49 See, it’s a different mindset.
0:41:52 Live where you want to live and work as hard as you want to.
0:41:55 It takes time to get started.
0:41:58 And like anything else, you have to, you have to dive into it, right?
0:42:01 And there’s things to do to be successful.
0:42:02 You have to educate yourself.
0:42:08 But the trick is come out with a lot of ideas and submit them to a lot of companies.
0:42:13 It’s a fascinating side hustle one with super low risks and big upside potential.
0:42:16 If you’ve ever done a licensing deal, I would love to hear from you.
0:42:23 We’ve done a few of these inventors slash entrepreneur type of examples on the show who’ve gone down this path.
0:42:28 One was a Pictionary inspired card game that got licensed to Mattel.
0:42:36 One was like a drink Coosie with a frozen Bulbassey section on the bottom that would fit into the little dimple underneath an aluminum can.
0:42:43 And one I want to say was a pad you could wear under a baseball or softball glove to protect your hand from hard line drives or throws.
0:42:44 But it’s been a while.
0:42:46 We’d love to hear some new case studies.
0:42:49 That’s number eight, product licensing.
0:42:50 Let me know what you got.
0:42:53 Low risk, big upside potential, very profitable side hustle.
0:42:55 Number nine is reselling software.
0:43:02 And I wanted to include software on this list because as you know, software companies are some of the most profitable in the world, right?
0:43:04 Microsoft, Oracle, Adobe.
0:43:13 And while it’s definitely possible for side hustlers to develop your own app, your own software tool, especially now with the help of no code tools, with the help of chat.
0:43:15 GPT even even hiring developers.
0:43:19 It’s still a more intimidating process for a lot of people.
0:43:24 The episodes that we’ve done or did on building software just didn’t perform that well.
0:43:32 But there was an episode we did on reselling software or white labeling someone else’s software that did really well.
0:43:42 Because it comes with a lot of the benefits of a software business like recurring revenue, low overhead, without the upfront development cost or product market fit risks.
0:43:49 And in this case, the game plan is to find a tool that you like and you play matchmaker between companies who could benefit from it.
0:44:00 The example we used in episode 494 with Chris Lillini was a reputation management software that helped small businesses collect more positive reviews from their customers.
0:44:05 So they’d end up ranking better in Yelp, ranking better in Google and getting more business.
0:44:07 Here’s Chris on how the model works.
0:44:19 So for example, if I go to the reputation management software in here, I imagine, I don’t know if it’s one of these that you’re using, but there’s a handful of options there.
0:44:20 Yeah, I’m sure.
0:44:27 They’re charging you a set price per month per customer, and then you’re turning around and selling it at 97 a month.
0:44:32 Are you comfortable sharing like how that math works or how you approach those margins?
0:44:32 Absolutely.
0:44:33 Yeah.
0:44:35 So I mean, my lowest package is 97 bucks a month.
0:44:43 I mean, that’s that’s kind of a mom and pop shop who’s like, you know, we don’t use any other software like you’re the first software we use.
0:44:47 Other way, you know, and they’re like, but, you know, we do get phone numbers and name and emails occasionally, right?
0:44:50 And so they’re like manually typing it in, right?
0:44:54 I would say that more so I’m at least at 150 bucks a month.
0:44:59 Most times, I would say what I’m selling more of now is about 300 bucks a month.
0:45:07 And that’s just because there’s, you know, different components to the technology now that’s making it more of like an all in one sort of solution for people.
0:45:10 And so how does the math work out?
0:45:14 Well, first off, usually what it works is you have to buy a kind of and this is just my own experience.
0:45:16 You have to buy a minimum of so many seats.
0:45:24 That number of seats is usually like, you know, you got to buy 10 seats at 40 bucks a seat, right?
0:45:32 And then usually there’s discounts as you go beyond that because they want to incentivize you obviously to grow your agency and allow you a more and more profit margin, right?
0:45:37 But your markup is really whatever you can charge, you know, whatever the perceived value is to the client, right?
0:45:47 So for me, if it’s a client where I’m kind of like, well, I don’t know if I necessarily want to do a lot for this person and there’s maybe not as much marketing budget than maybe it’s a 97 bucks a month.
0:45:57 But if I just give you an example, I just recently signed up an ENT doc out of Houston and they’ve been kind of struggling for years to get more reviews.
0:46:04 And within, you know, their first 30 days, they got 34, five star reviews and they were like, this thing is incredible.
0:46:05 I don’t know what you’re doing or how you’re doing it, right?
0:46:11 That’s a lot of value, especially when, you know, a sinus surgery can cost, you know, 10, 10, 15 grand.
0:46:12 It’s like a roofer, right?
0:46:12 Kind of thing.
0:46:15 But they’ve actually, they’re actually doing volume to justify that stuff.
0:46:20 So yeah, it’s just, it’s based off of the seats and the more that you do, the cheaper that they are.
0:46:24 I mean, sometimes people will do, you know, hey, for 300 bucks a month, it’s unlimited.
0:46:26 I mean, that’s really where I started.
0:46:36 And then, you know, what I would say, Nick, you know, if I was going to have a word to the wise of somebody doing something like this is I would make sure that you focus on building relationships with your clients.
0:46:45 Them understanding that you have a certain level of expertise enough that they trust you that, you know, let’s say that the platform you’re using gets sunsetted.
0:46:48 Because somebody else buys them because that’s what’s happening out there, right?
0:46:51 As a lot of these little things are being consolidated on these bigger brands.
0:46:53 It’s just the nature of the beast out there.
0:47:04 And so, you know, that was a lesson that I, I learned maybe midway through my sort of business where my initial software got bought up by a bigger company.
0:47:06 And I mean, that’s, let’s just say there’s a lot of sleepless nights there.
0:47:15 So, and it was just because I hadn’t necessarily prepared or positioned myself in a way that, hey, this is a newer platform that we’re moving to.
0:47:16 And it would be super awesome.
0:47:19 And it’s going to be way better and more efficient than people would be like, oh, yeah, I’m totally on board.
0:47:23 Whatever you, whatever you think, Chris, like you’ve been doing right by us for years, right?
0:47:28 I would just make sure that you’re, you’re keeping and maintaining that relationship and that capacity.
0:47:30 And if not you, you’re your account managers.
0:47:36 Just so they don’t just one day log in and see that the interface is all changed.
0:47:37 And they say, what’s going on?
0:47:39 Like it just creates questions for you.
0:47:40 Yeah, exactly.
0:47:41 Right.
0:47:43 Like, hey, what, what happened?
0:47:44 Or what is this?
0:47:45 Or, you know, I can’t log in, right?
0:47:52 Like, because there’s got to be a transition period of moving to that new one and learning the ropes of the new software and stuff like that.
0:47:54 So yeah, that would be my only emphasis.
0:48:00 And I use, I use a couple of softwares that I provide for my clients just based on what their needs are.
0:48:07 And so I guess in a way, I’m somewhat platform agnostic because if something were to happen again, I could, I could move everybody to this platform.
0:48:13 I can move everybody to this other platform or I know a couple of others that I might explore that are always kind of on the radar.
0:48:17 Potentially, if, if something were to go, you know, weird or screwy, right?
0:48:22 Because I would say the biggest thing is I’m moving off that $300 a month unlimited platform.
0:48:27 I moved to a platform that was like, okay, that’s cool for the first year since we bought these guys.
0:48:30 But now we’re actually going to charge you 20 bucks per seat.
0:48:39 And I’m like, okay, guys, you realize that my monthly bill for you just went from 300 bucks to about 2400 a month.
0:48:41 And I was like, yeah, that would just cripple my agency.
0:48:45 Right? But instead, I was able to talk it down to $10 a month.
0:48:51 Now, I think I was the cheapest one because I had the best relationship with the people and I was able to kind of get through that somewhat unscathed.
0:48:52 So yeah.
0:48:56 Okay. Yeah. Maintaining those relationships, everything is negotiable in some way.
0:49:01 And when things shift, you know, the customer, you’ve sold the solution.
0:49:06 The customer is kind of convinced that this is a problem at this point and they trust you to provide the solution.
0:49:13 If the back end of that solution needs to change slightly from one provider to another, as long as they’re still getting the results, like you said,
0:49:18 I think that’s still going to be okay versus completely being married to one solution.
0:49:24 And then all of a sudden it stops being effective anymore and then you’re kind of in trouble there.
0:49:30 What’s the conversation like with prospective customers?
0:49:40 Because it’s like, well, they could go directly to this software and pay $14 a month versus $97 to $300 for you to run it for them.
0:49:44 Or, I don’t know, like, what’s the value add layer?
0:49:48 I don’t know. I’m curious about it. I’m curious like, well, where does the margin come from?
0:49:56 So they sell it to us, right? At, you know, $10 or let’s just say what’s more reasonable, right? $40 a seat, right?
0:50:00 Well, their retail pricing at a minimum is $117, right?
0:50:08 So that’s what they’re selling retail because they realize like their cost for, you know, client acquisition or customer acquisition is X, right?
0:50:11 That they’re putting a lot of money on that side, right?
0:50:18 A lot of these guys will do contracts. So when you sign with them, and this is how really, to be honest with you, as a, you know, a solopreneur,
0:50:21 you know, a side hustle, apreneur, whatever you want to kind of call yourself,
0:50:26 where you can create value that makes your offer more attractive is that I don’t do contracts.
0:50:27 Mine’s all month to month, right?
0:50:33 So nobody has like, feels like they’re being pressured. And I always jokingly say in our kind of our sales call, if you will,
0:50:38 I said, hey, look, you know, my goal is to make you so delighted with the results that we’re providing that you kind of,
0:50:42 you kind of look at your bill every month and you kind of laugh and you, I can’t believe that’s all I pay this guy, right?
0:50:44 That’s sort of my approach to it, right?
0:50:50 And I also say at the same time, like, hey, if it’s not a good fit and we’re not, we’re not having a good relationship, like,
0:50:53 let’s become friends amicably, like, I don’t, I don’t want to sour the relationship.
0:50:55 I don’t want you stuck in a relationship that you don’t like.
0:50:59 Also, you know, if you’re not a good client, I don’t want to be in a relationship with you either, right?
0:50:59 Kind of thing.
0:51:04 And I say jokingly, obviously, but the idea there is like, hey, this is an open conversation, right?
0:51:05 In that realm.
0:51:10 And so where the margin is, is in what they will retail or charge it for, right?
0:51:12 So I’m always kind of keeping an eye on what that is.
0:51:15 The powerful thing is, is that I don’t have a lot of bloated overhead, right?
0:51:18 I’m not paying for the software development costs, right?
0:51:22 That’s the thing that really would eat up because I’ve, I’d thought back when I was a naive entrepreneur,
0:51:24 I was like, well, I’ll just build this software myself.
0:51:26 And then I went out and got it quoted.
0:51:30 And I was like, just to get a baseline platform is going to cost me about 300 grand.
0:51:32 And that was to like, just get something to stand up.
0:51:36 And then I was like, yeah, but then what’s the ongoing maintenance to keep that thing relevant,
0:51:41 especially in the digital world where like, you know, browsers are changing all the time.
0:51:43 All these review platforms are changing all the time.
0:51:45 I was like, yeah, you know what?
0:51:49 The 10 bucks a month I’m spending per account seems like a fair shake, you know?
0:51:52 And I’ll just deal with the limitations of the platform.
0:51:53 Super interesting business.
0:51:58 Again, that’s $494 in your archives to learn more about how it all works and how Chris
0:52:01 is getting his messaging in front of his target customers.
0:52:06 At that time, he reported earning a multi six-figure income from the software reselling business
0:52:10 number nine on our list of the most profitable side hustles.
0:52:11 I want to bring it home with number 10.
0:52:15 And it’s another example of creating something once and selling it over and over again.
0:52:17 And that’s self publishing.
0:52:24 My self publishing experience started in 2012 with a book called virtual assistant assistant.
0:52:30 And this was the project that opened my eyes to the power of Amazon as a buy buttons marketplace
0:52:36 to put your work up for sale on the world’s largest store for a very low cost that people
0:52:41 can search for and buy over and over again and not making a ton on any individual book.
0:52:42 But over the years, it can definitely add up.
0:52:44 I’ll share some of those numbers in a second.
0:52:49 But it was interesting because I was running the virtual assistant website at the time.
0:52:54 My thought was people would come to the website, forgive the less than amazing looking design
0:52:58 of the site, see that I’d written a book on the topic and click over to Amazon to buy
0:53:00 it to learn more about outsourcing.
0:53:05 Instead, the exact opposite happened through the magic of affiliate link tracking.
0:53:09 I can see almost no one went through the link on the website to go buy the book, but instead
0:53:12 people were searching for virtual assistant information on Amazon.
0:53:16 They found the book and they came over to the website afterwards, but self-publishing
0:53:18 is one of my longest running side hustles.
0:53:24 I’ve added several books since then, since 2012, including work smarter, which was 2015
0:53:29 buy buttons in 2016, the side hustle in 2019, which should still be free on Kindle if you’re
0:53:31 in the U.S. SideHustleNation.com/book.
0:53:37 We’ll get you over there, 1K 100 Ways in 2021, crowdsourcing a bunch of stories from the
0:53:43 SideHustleNation community in that one and then the three-question journal in 2023.
0:53:49 In total, those books and a few others have earned over $84,000 in lifetime royalties,
0:53:55 which given an estimated maybe two grand in total production costs between editing, cover
0:54:01 design, maybe audiobook production, very, very low production costs, that’s a 97% margin.
0:54:05 It’s hard to find something with a better profit margin than something like that.
0:54:09 Now, that doesn’t even include audiobook sales, doesn’t even include the other benefits
0:54:14 of self-publishing, like brand awareness, like building an email list, like increased
0:54:18 podcast listenership, all that other good stuff that comes from putting your work out
0:54:19 into the world.
0:54:25 On the show, we’ve covered a variety of self-publishing related topics, including low content publishing,
0:54:27 which would be journals and notebooks.
0:54:31 We covered children’s publishing, which is still on the back burner for me.
0:54:34 I need to review the illustrations and hopefully bring that one to market.
0:54:36 I think that’ll be a fun project.
0:54:39 We covered public domain publishing.
0:54:43 This was Aaron Kerr in episode 364.
0:54:48 He described earning over $100,000 in royalties from public domain books.
0:54:53 I think his biggest seller was like an Anne of Green Gables collection, but this is basically
0:54:57 taking a free text where the copyright has expired.
0:55:01 The work has entered the public domain, which I want to say is anything older than 95 years
0:55:02 in the US.
0:55:07 You format it for Kindle, you put it up for sale on Amazon, and I’ve got to imagine there’s
0:55:11 a bit of competition of other people doing this, but it’s just another example of tapping
0:55:16 into the power of Amazon in a creative way, creating something once that you can sell
0:55:19 over and over again and making some side hustle money.
0:55:23 Those were my top 10 most profitable side hustles to recap.
0:55:27 It was number one, the recurring web design service inspired by Ryan Golgowski.
0:55:32 Number two is to start a content business, something that scales really well, same effort
0:55:36 to create that YouTube video that 100 people watch or 100,000 people watch can be really
0:55:37 powerful that way.
0:55:43 Number three was digital products and perhaps even AI assisted digital products.
0:55:47 Number four was ShareTown, any physical product business where you got no upfront inventory
0:55:49 cost is interesting to me.
0:55:51 Number five was niche consulting.
0:55:56 Is there a service that you could offer that you have some subject matter expertise in where
0:56:00 you could command a high hourly rate or high effective hourly rate?
0:56:03 Number six was ice vending just because I love the unit economics on that.
0:56:08 Number seven was memberships, we talked both about the content plus community membership,
0:56:14 but also the creating a digital Costco where people join for discounts in a specific industry
0:56:15 or niche.
0:56:16 I thought that was really interesting.
0:56:21 Number eight is product licensing where you can get paid over and over again from sending
0:56:26 an idea off to a particular company and letting them do the heavy lifting there, really, really
0:56:30 interesting, low risk, low overhead, high upside.
0:56:32 Number nine was reselling software.
0:56:36 We could include software in general, but sometimes maybe a little more intimidating
0:56:39 or a little more difficult to build a software product from scratch.
0:56:44 Instead, one option to resell or white label a software product that already exists.
0:56:50 And number 10, self publishing with those 97% margins over the last 12 years of doing
0:56:51 that.
0:56:56 So that’s my list complete with real life examples and some actual margin numbers.
0:57:00 Now for the sake of curiosity, I had to ask, well, chat GPT, what are the most profitable
0:57:01 side hustles?
0:57:02 And I was really surprised.
0:57:06 There is a shockingly little overlap here.
0:57:07 They did include content creation.
0:57:10 They did include freelancing, which I’ll give them some credit, I’ll bucket my recurring
0:57:14 web design service and niche consulting under that umbrella.
0:57:18 But I was surprisingly, they included options like ride share and delivery, well documented
0:57:20 to be not very profitable.
0:57:24 They included stock photography, which is you can make money doing it, but it’s like
0:57:25 such a volume game.
0:57:28 You got to take thousands of pictures and upload all this stuff.
0:57:31 And dog walking was another one on their list.
0:57:35 They’re all totally viable side hustles and some of them do have really low overhead,
0:57:38 but pretty limited in terms of the hourly rates.
0:57:42 You can earn, maybe if you take six dogs at once, then it starts to explode.
0:57:46 So moral of the story, as with all things AI, as with all things on the internet in general,
0:57:50 take it with a grain of salt, do your own due diligence, find a side hustle you’re excited
0:57:51 about.
0:57:53 Find one that you’re excited to take action on.
0:57:56 If you’re not pumped about it, if you’re not excited to explore it, you’re never going
0:57:59 to prioritize the time and attention it needs.
0:58:04 Big thanks to all our past guests who shared their insight to make this episode possible.
0:58:08 I will do my best to link up all of those episodes in the show notes for this one so
0:58:11 you can easily find those and add them to your device.
0:58:15 Or if you want to go a little deeper, you can actually build yourself a personalized
0:58:19 side hustle show playlist at hustle.show.
0:58:24 Just answer a few short multiple choice questions and we’ll recommend a handful of episodes
0:58:26 to start with based on your responses.
0:58:28 Again, that’s hustle.show.
0:58:32 Thousands of listeners have already claimed their playlist and I want to invite you to
0:58:33 be next.
0:58:37 Big thanks to our sponsors for helping make this content free for everyone.
0:58:42 You can hit upsidehustlenation.com/deals for all the latest offers from our sponsors in
0:58:43 one place.
0:58:44 That’s it for me.
0:58:46 Thank you so much for tuning in.
0:58:50 If you’re finding value in the show, the greatest compliment is to share it with a friend.
0:58:52 So fire off that text message.
0:58:54 Hey, what do you think of these ideas?
0:58:57 Until next time, let’s go out there and make something happen and I’ll catch you in the
0:59:00 next edition of the Side Hustle Show.
0:59:00 Hustle on.
0:59:10 [BLANK_AUDIO]