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0:00:59 Invest in productive assets, and the most lucrative asset you can invest in
0:00:59 is your own business.
0:01:03 It’s very difficult to be a successful entrepreneur, but it’s very important.
0:01:07 And if you succeed, you deserve all the money that you make.
0:01:10 And the more money you make, the more people you’ve helped.
0:01:13 In order to really make America great again, there’s going to be a…
0:01:32 Yeah, fam, welcome back to the show.
0:01:34 My guest today is Peter Schiff.
0:01:39 He’s a businessman, investment broker, author, and financial commentator.
0:01:43 He’s the CEO and chief global strategist of Euro-Pacific Capital.
0:01:47 And he is also the host of the very popular Peter Schiff podcast.
0:01:53 In this episode, we’re going to talk about the 1%, why they aren’t so bad,
0:01:56 and why capitalism really fuels the economy.
0:02:00 We’re going to be talking about real assets, what that means,
0:02:04 and the difference between Bitcoin, the dollar, gold,
0:02:08 how we should think about and be investing in each of those.
0:02:11 And we’re also going to talk about the potential recession that’s about to hit
0:02:13 in the upcoming year with this new presidency.
0:02:16 So I can’t wait for you guys to hear this.
0:02:19 I was really blown away by all of Peter’s knowledge.
0:02:22 This is one of my favorite episodes about the economy and finance
0:02:24 that we’ve had in a really long time.
0:02:30 So without further delay, this is my super insightful conversation with Peter Schiff.
0:02:32 Peter, welcome to Young and Profiting podcast.
0:02:34 Mahalo, thanks for inviting me on.
0:02:35 I’m happy to be here.
0:02:40 Yeah, I’m excited to talk about the economy, to talk about investing.
0:02:46 And to kick it off, I really wanted to get your POV related to some general topics,
0:02:47 the things that you talk a lot about.
0:02:51 And the first place I wanted to start was income inequality.
0:02:56 And income inequality has been a super hot topic in America for over a decade now.
0:03:02 So in 2011, if you guys don’t know, Occupy Wall Street movement was happening, right?
0:03:05 And their big slogan was, we are the 99%.
0:03:09 And I learned that you actually went down to the protests with a camera and a sign that
0:03:12 said, I am the 1%, let’s talk.
0:03:17 And wealth inequality has actually gotten a lot worse since 2011.
0:03:23 And I came across a recent stat that said the top 1% of American households held about 30%
0:03:25 of the nation’s total net worth.
0:03:28 So, first of all, do you think this is a problem?
0:03:34 Well, first of all, just about the Occupy Wall Street thing that I did, I went down there, it was,
0:03:35 I was working with Reason TV.
0:03:38 And so they initially sponsored it.
0:03:44 And the video ended up getting tens of millions of views on multiple channels.
0:03:47 And this is a while ago when that was a lot of views.
0:03:50 I mean, YouTube wasn’t as big back then as it is now.
0:03:52 So it did really well.
0:03:56 I mean, if you want to see it, I eventually, a few years ago, I just put a copy of it on my
0:03:57 YouTube channel.
0:04:00 And even there, I’ve got over 5 million views.
0:04:01 I put it up a few years ago.
0:04:03 But it’s a great video.
0:04:06 I think it’s about two hours if you have the time.
0:04:10 And it did make a big impact because I still get emails now.
0:04:15 I mean, every week, at least I get one from somebody, usually young people, who let me know
0:04:17 how influential this was.
0:04:21 It opened their eyes to a lot of things that they didn’t understand.
0:04:24 Now, getting to your income inequality question.
0:04:29 I mean, first of all, there’s always going to be income inequality in a free market, in
0:04:29 capitalism.
0:04:31 People are not equal.
0:04:33 I mean, they’re equal under the law, right?
0:04:38 That is a tenant of government that all everybody is equal under the eyes of the law.
0:04:44 But we’re all not equal in our abilities, in our intelligence, in our drive, in our goals.
0:04:48 And so there are going to be people that are more successful than other people.
0:04:49 And so they’re going to be wealthier.
0:04:51 I mean, that’s just what you’re going to have.
0:04:59 But under capitalism, the beauty of capitalism is even the poor people can be rich relative
0:05:01 to how they would be in another system.
0:05:06 And in fact, the poorest people in America today live better than the richest people did
0:05:07 hundreds of years ago.
0:05:14 If you look at all of the things that capitalism has produced that have increased the quality
0:05:19 of life, hundreds of years ago, if you wanted to listen to music, you had to be wealthy enough
0:05:22 to afford to have a live band play for you, right?
0:05:25 You couldn’t just, you know, go on the internet and, you know, and listen to stuff.
0:05:30 So a lot of things that you had to be rich to have, now everybody has them.
0:05:34 I mean, I remember when the first cell phone came out, I didn’t even want to buy one because
0:05:35 I couldn’t afford it.
0:05:41 I remember I went to a store and I saw this high def television in like a Best Buy or something.
0:05:46 And I was probably maybe in my thirties or like, I couldn’t believe the picture, how
0:05:48 great it was, but I couldn’t afford it.
0:05:51 It was like $10,000, which was a lot of money back then.
0:05:54 And Matt, you know, it’s still a lot of money, but it was a lot more money in the eighties.
0:05:59 But the reason that everybody’s got a television of, you know, high def television, the reason
0:06:05 that even people on welfare have cell phones now is because capitalism made them more abundant
0:06:06 and less expensive.
0:06:12 But income inequality today is actually higher than it’s ever been.
0:06:19 And the reason for that is because of the monetary policy that the Federal Reserve has pursued.
0:06:27 And as a result of that, we have an extreme income inequality that is not the natural byproduct
0:06:30 of capitalism and which is a problem.
0:06:35 But the solution isn’t for the government to try to redistribute the wealth from the rich
0:06:36 to the poor.
0:06:40 That always backfires and that will lead to even greater income inequality.
0:06:47 What we have to do is change the monetary policy that has enriched the few at the expense of
0:06:51 the many, because what the government has been doing is that they’ve been fueling inflation.
0:06:55 They’ve been running huge deficits, printing a lot of money, creating a lot of inflation.
0:07:03 The beneficiaries of that inflation are primarily the wealthy who own assets and who are able to
0:07:06 leverage those assets with cheap money to achieve more wealth.
0:07:13 But the middle class and the poor suffer because all they end up with is higher prices for the
0:07:14 goods and services that they buy.
0:07:19 And they’re also encouraged to go deeper into debt to afford to pay those bills.
0:07:22 And so instead of building wealth, they build debt.
0:07:26 They get poorer and poorer as they continue to borrow money to consume.
0:07:33 In the meantime, a lot of the money that should be invested productively that would result in
0:07:38 a higher standard of living for everybody that would create more goods and services and lower
0:07:43 prices, we end up just fueling speculative bubbles on Wall Street.
0:07:49 And so the policies that are being pursued are exacerbating the income inequality and they’re
0:07:51 undermining the collective standard of living.
0:07:57 And also the government perpetuates poverty with the welfare system that we have, where
0:08:03 people are paid basically not to be productive and it breeds a culture of dependency.
0:08:09 And we have a lot of things like the minimum wage law and occupational licensing and payroll
0:08:15 taxes and regulations that make it very difficult for people that don’t have skills to get jobs.
0:08:20 And the most important thing for somebody who doesn’t have a skill is to get a job because
0:08:23 on the job training is the best way to get skills.
0:08:26 And the more skills you have, the more money you can earn.
0:08:32 But if the government erects a lot of barriers to make it harder to get that first job, then
0:08:34 you never get on the economic ladder.
0:08:39 And so a lot of people have been trapped in poverty because of the welfare state and a lot
0:08:44 of these regulations that in some cases are well-intentioned, but they backfire.
0:08:49 I really love that you explained all this because I feel like it foreshadows our conversation
0:08:54 later because I’m going to ask you about why you feel we’re in a bubble economy and economic
0:08:59 policies and the Trump administration and what you foresee is going to happen with all of that.
0:09:04 But first, I really want to stick on this like high earner 1% topic.
0:09:12 And I want to understand what you think is misunderstood about 1%ers and also how do they bolster the
0:09:13 economy, these 1%ers?
0:09:22 Well, most people who get wealthy do it because they have created something of value.
0:09:25 The way you get rich, honestly, right?
0:09:29 I mean, obviously, there could be a thief that could just steal something and then he gets
0:09:30 rich dishonestly.
0:09:36 But if I start a business, and that’s the way most people achieve wealth, they start a business.
0:09:41 And when you have a business, you can’t force anybody to be your customer.
0:09:42 They have to choose.
0:09:45 They have to voluntarily buy whatever it is that you’re selling.
0:09:49 And people will always act in their own self-interest.
0:09:54 And so if I start a business and now people want to buy stuff from me, it’s because whatever I’m
0:09:56 selling makes their lives better.
0:10:01 And they value what I’m selling more than the money that they’re paying me to provide them with
0:10:01 that.
0:10:08 And so that’s a good thing because in capitalism, the more money you earn, by definition, the more
0:10:11 people that you’ve helped, you’ve improved their lives.
0:10:16 You’ve given them a better product at a higher quality or at a lower price.
0:10:21 And they voluntarily gave you their money that they worked hard to earn.
0:10:25 They gave you that money to buy your product or, you know, or utilize your service.
0:10:30 And generally, in the process, if I’m going to create a business, I usually can’t do it all
0:10:31 by myself.
0:10:32 I need help.
0:10:34 I have to hire some people to help me.
0:10:40 And so now I’m creating employment opportunities for people because a lot of people can’t start
0:10:41 their own business.
0:10:43 They don’t have the savings, the capital.
0:10:47 They don’t have the know-how and they can’t afford to take the risk.
0:10:50 When you start a business, you may not make any money.
0:10:54 I mean, there’s a lot of risk associated with setting up a business.
0:10:57 And usually you have to put up money in order to do it.
0:10:58 And you may lose.
0:11:00 You may, in fact, most businesses fail.
0:11:05 That means the people who start the businesses lose money, but their employees don’t lose money.
0:11:11 When you hire somebody to work, you got to give them a salary, a wage, whether you make
0:11:12 money or not.
0:11:16 If you rent office space, you got to pay the landlord, whether you make any money or
0:11:16 not.
0:11:21 So the business owner, the entrepreneur is the last person to get paid.
0:11:23 And he’s usually the hardest working.
0:11:27 I know when I, you know, and I started my business, I was the first one there and I turned off the
0:11:28 lights at night.
0:11:29 I worked harder than anybody.
0:11:32 And for the first several years, I made no money.
0:11:36 So there’s not a lot of people that are willing to put in that kind of effort.
0:11:39 People, some people don’t want to work 14 hour days.
0:11:41 They want to work for eight hours.
0:11:42 They want to take the weekends off.
0:11:45 When you own your own business, you never have a weekend off.
0:11:47 Even if you’re not at work, you’re still working.
0:11:51 So it’s very difficult to be a successful entrepreneur, but it’s very important.
0:11:56 And if you succeed, you deserve all the money that you make.
0:11:59 And the more money you make, the more people you’ve helped.
0:12:02 You’ve improved their lives or you wouldn’t make any money.
0:12:08 And the other beauty of capitalism is if I set up a business and I don’t make any money,
0:12:09 that means I’ve failed.
0:12:16 That means my efforts have not produced any real value, meaning I hired people to work
0:12:18 who could have worked someplace else.
0:12:20 I took that labor, which is not unlimited.
0:12:22 I took some scarce labor.
0:12:24 Maybe I rented some space.
0:12:25 I used some materials.
0:12:31 I used scarce resources and I couldn’t produce a product or service that I could sell at a profit.
0:12:37 That means the people don’t value what I’m doing as much as it’s costing me to produce it.
0:12:40 And so I’m net destroying value.
0:12:42 And so I go out of business.
0:12:45 But if I succeed, I stay in business and I make money.
0:12:47 But that’s how capitalism works.
0:12:50 That’s how resources get efficiently allocated.
0:12:53 That’s why socialist countries are broke.
0:12:54 Communist countries have nothing.
0:12:57 The people starve because you don’t have a profit motive.
0:12:58 You don’t have the right incentives.
0:13:04 When you have a bunch of bureaucrats in government trying to figure out what people want, it can’t work.
0:13:16 You need to have individual entrepreneurs incentivized by profit in order to have an efficient allocation of resources in order to create anything, in order to invent anything.
0:13:18 People operate in their own self-interest.
0:13:26 So if I know that if I start a business and I do something good, I could get rich, well, then I’m going to do it.
0:13:30 But if I don’t have that incentive, then why should I take the risk?
0:13:35 Why should I put in all the effort if I can’t benefit from that?
0:13:41 And so you can’t look at somebody who’s wealthy and think that, oh, they’re a bad person, they’re an evil person.
0:13:42 They’re not.
0:13:44 The people who have helped us the most.
0:13:47 I mean, everybody, you know, you look, oh, I’ve got this iPhone that I really like.
0:13:54 Well, you think you’d have an iPhone if Steve Jobs and his early investors couldn’t make any money creating those products?
0:13:58 The problem isn’t the wealthy people in the free market.
0:14:00 It’s the wealthy people in government.
0:14:07 It’s people who get rich off of government because that’s the problem, because government isn’t about voluntary transactions.
0:14:09 Government is about force.
0:14:12 A businessman can’t take your money away from you.
0:14:15 A businessman has to earn your money.
0:14:20 He has to convince you to spend your money at his business as opposed to somebody else’s.
0:14:23 And he can only do that by offering you a better deal.
0:14:25 Government takes your money by force.
0:14:28 Government says you have to give me your money whether you like it or not.
0:14:31 And so that’s what people have to be afraid of.
0:14:32 Big government.
0:14:34 Big government can harm you.
0:14:35 A big business can’t.
0:14:41 All they can do is try to earn your money by providing you things that make your life better.
0:14:42 You’re so right.
0:14:47 It’s the politicians and the government that get rich off our money.
0:14:50 That’s the bad thing because entrepreneurs, they’re taking risks.
0:14:52 They’re creating jobs.
0:14:58 They’re making our standard of living so much better through innovation and technology and better health care
0:14:59 and all these great things.
0:15:01 And entrepreneurs really push the world forward.
0:15:07 So sticking on that topic of government taking our money and taxes, when it comes to the one percenters,
0:15:11 a lot of people complain that it’s the middle class taking all the burden with the taxes.
0:15:16 And even Warren Buffett once said that he gets taxed less than his secretary.
0:15:19 So talk to us about that and what you think about that.
0:15:22 Well, he doesn’t get taxed less than his secretary.
0:15:26 But, I mean, one thing about Warren Buffett is he worked for free, right?
0:15:31 Warren Buffett didn’t take a salary because he owned so much stock in Berkshire Hathaway.
0:15:34 He was earning his money on dividends.
0:15:35 That was his choice.
0:15:42 But Berkshire Hathaway, the corporation, paid a corporate income tax before Warren Buffett got his dividend.
0:15:53 And so when Warren Buffett said, hey, I earned less than my secretary, that’s because he wasn’t counting the taxes that he paid on the corporate level before he got his personal dividend.
0:15:57 So when you add it together, he did pay a higher tax than his secretary.
0:16:02 But, you know, people like to use those soundbites as if we need to tax the rich more.
0:16:04 You know, the rich are already paying a lot of taxes.
0:16:07 They pay the majority of the taxes.
0:16:15 But the problem with higher taxes on the rich, and I’m talking about, you know, not somebody that makes 200, 300, 400,000 a year.
0:16:20 You’re talking about people that are making 10 million, 20, 50 million a year, you know, making a lot of money.
0:16:23 What do you think rich people do with their money?
0:16:25 Most of it is invested.
0:16:26 It’s not spent.
0:16:29 There’s only so much money you can blow.
0:16:33 And so most money that wealthy people earn, they invest.
0:16:43 And that money, assuming they invested productively, the problem is now they just, a lot of it is gambled on the stock on Wall Street and stuff, cryptocurrencies or nonsense like that.
0:16:55 But without the artificially low interest rates and the things the Fed does, most of the money that wealthy people earn and don’t spend is invested productively.
0:17:05 It goes to help new businesses start up, all these venture capitalists, all these companies, you know, they get funded, seeded by wealthy people that have the money to risk.
0:17:11 They put their money at risk to create new businesses, they put their money at risk to create new businesses, which come up with new products and new services.
0:17:16 And so when you tax the wealthy people, that’s what you reduce.
0:17:17 You reduce their investments.
0:17:21 You don’t reduce their consumption because they’re going to buy what they want to buy.
0:17:23 They just invest what’s left over.
0:17:32 So the marginal tax rate on the wealthy ends up reducing investment, which means less economic growth and lower prosperity.
0:17:35 So just take it from the rich is not going to do it.
0:17:41 Plus, the more you tax wealthy people, the less incentivized they have to make the investment.
0:17:42 They’ll screw it.
0:17:43 I’m just going to spend the money.
0:17:46 Why should I invest it when the government is going to take so much of it?
0:17:49 Because if you lose money, the government doesn’t share in the losses.
0:17:52 They just they just want a big chunk of the profits.
0:17:54 And so that’s not a good partner to have.
0:17:59 So it’s counterproductive to say, hey, just let’s raise taxes on the rich.
0:18:04 But I do think that in America today, the middle class pays a tax rate that much too high.
0:18:07 It’s not just the income tax that they’re paying.
0:18:10 It’s the payroll tax, the Social Security and Medicare tax.
0:18:12 And a lot of people don’t realize this.
0:18:14 They think they just pay their half.
0:18:19 They just think they pay half of the Social Security tax and the employer pays the rest.
0:18:21 No, the employer doesn’t pay any of it.
0:18:24 The employer just collects it from the worker.
0:18:30 So everybody is paid a little bit less so that their employer can send Social Security
0:18:31 payments to the government.
0:18:34 All the Social Security money comes from the worker.
0:18:40 That’s why if if you’re self-employed, if you’re driving an Uber and you’re an independent
0:18:43 contractor, you pay a 15 percent self-employment tax.
0:18:45 But everybody is paying that.
0:18:49 They don’t realize it because they don’t see it out of their paycheck because the employer
0:18:51 already factored that in into the wage.
0:18:54 The wage would be higher without that obligation.
0:18:57 So everybody is overtaxed, I think.
0:19:01 But the reason for that is that we have a huge government that’s spending much too much money.
0:19:07 And so the way to lower everybody’s taxes is to cut government spending substantially.
0:19:11 But right now we have a huge budget deficit, which means technically we’re not even taxed
0:19:12 enough.
0:19:17 Given how much government we have, we’re not paying enough taxes to finance it.
0:19:23 And the way we end up paying for that government is through inflation because inflation is really
0:19:28 a tax and the way the inflation tax comes into existence is let’s say the government collects
0:19:32 a dollar in taxes, but they spend a dollar 50.
0:19:33 Where do they get that 50 cents?
0:19:35 They didn’t get it in taxes.
0:19:36 So they have to create it.
0:19:39 The Fed creates it or they can borrow it.
0:19:42 But now the borrowing is financed by the Fed mostly.
0:19:46 So the government creates that extra 50 cents and they spend it in the circulation.
0:19:49 And now the people that get that money go out and spend it.
0:19:51 And that bids up prices.
0:19:54 And so the increase in price is the tax.
0:20:00 So instead of the government taking your money honestly, they take it dishonestly through inflation
0:20:02 by taking your purchasing power.
0:20:06 So when people are complaining that inflation is too high, it’s taxes that are too high.
0:20:10 And it’s government spending because that’s the real tax.
0:20:11 It’s how much government spends.
0:20:16 So that’s why even when Donald Trump, when he claimed that he had this big tax cut when
0:20:21 he was president, there was no tax cut because government spending went up every year that
0:20:22 Trump was president.
0:20:26 And it’s the amount that government spends that is the actual tax.
0:20:29 That is the burden that government puts on the economy.
0:20:36 And all those resources need to be paid for by the public, either through direct taxation or
0:20:41 sales taxes or income taxes, social security taxes, or they’re going to be paid for by
0:20:41 inflation.
0:20:46 And recently, more and more of our government is being paid for by inflation.
0:20:51 And that’s why inflation, despite what Trump had promised to get elected, inflation is going
0:20:53 to get worse over the next several years.
0:20:57 Prices are going to go up more, I think, this year than they did last.
0:21:03 I could definitely imagine that, especially considering how much we spent on defense and how much we’ve
0:21:05 sent to Ukraine and Israel.
0:21:08 It’s been absolutely insane in the past year.
0:21:12 So I could imagine that that’s going to trickle to inflation in the country this year.
0:21:14 Defense spending is going to go up.
0:21:18 But defense is really the only thing the federal government should be spending money on.
0:21:23 I think we should spend less on defense, but we need to get rid of almost everything else the
0:21:24 government does.
0:21:25 That is the problem.
0:21:29 The federal government is doing so many things that it has no business doing, that it has
0:21:31 no constitutional authority to do.
0:21:37 Donald Trump talks about how, you know, 100 years ago, we had no income taxes at all.
0:21:38 We just had tariffs.
0:21:43 And we had taxes on liquor and tobacco and firearms, stuff like that.
0:21:44 But that was it.
0:21:45 That’s all the federal government ran on.
0:21:47 Nobody paid an income tax.
0:21:48 Nobody paid a payroll tax.
0:21:49 We didn’t have Social Security.
0:21:53 And America prospered without those taxes.
0:21:58 We had faster economic growth in the 19th century than we did in the 20th century or now in the
0:22:00 21st when we had no income tax.
0:22:05 But the reason we were able to exist without an income tax is because the government was
0:22:05 tiny.
0:22:07 The government hardly did anything.
0:22:09 So it didn’t spend very much money.
0:22:11 So it didn’t need a lot of taxes.
0:22:14 And so it could afford to raise that revenue through tariffs.
0:22:19 But today the government is so big that it’s impossible to get the amount of money that they
0:22:22 need through indirect taxes like tariffs.
0:22:26 And so that’s why they they need the income tax, because they take that money right out
0:22:26 of your paycheck.
0:22:29 You never get a chance to see it before you even get it.
0:22:30 The government has it right.
0:22:32 Same thing with the payroll tax.
0:22:35 So without those type of taxes, the government couldn’t be this big.
0:22:40 But those taxes are very economically destructive and they destroy individual liberty.
0:22:45 I mean, I think it’s horrible that people have to even keep track of how much money they
0:22:45 earn.
0:22:50 My grandfather, my father’s father, came to this country as an immigrant.
0:22:52 He had no money, didn’t speak any English.
0:22:54 And he never became wealthy.
0:22:57 He was a middle class guy, but he had a he was self-employed.
0:22:58 He had a carpentry business.
0:23:00 He employed a few other carpenters.
0:23:04 You know, he worked his whole life, but he never kept track of what he earned.
0:23:05 He had a little business.
0:23:06 He paid his workers.
0:23:09 Whatever money was left over was what he had.
0:23:12 But he didn’t he didn’t write it down because there was no taxes to pay.
0:23:16 You know, you paid your bills and that was that you didn’t have to have accountants.
0:23:17 You didn’t have to have lawyers.
0:23:20 You just earn money and you spend that’s a free country today.
0:23:23 You know, every you know, you have to tell the government everything you do.
0:23:26 They want to know everything, you know, all the money you earn, everything you bought.
0:23:31 I mean, so we have a lot less freedom today than we did before we had an income tax.
0:23:36 Do you feel like this new department led by Elon Musk is going to change anything?
0:23:38 Doge, I think it’s called.
0:23:42 I don’t think there’ll be a substantial change such that it makes a difference.
0:23:44 I mean, it’s not really a department.
0:23:48 First, it was going to be a think tank, but now Donald Trump signed an order.
0:23:51 So now he’s kind of brought Doge into the White House.
0:23:55 So the people that work for Doge are actually going to be government employees.
0:23:58 So that’s more money we’re going to spend hiring these these workers.
0:24:05 But I think their mission is going to be more trying to make our IT systems more efficient,
0:24:06 up to date.
0:24:08 That might save some money.
0:24:10 But in the scheme of things, it’s not going to be enough.
0:24:16 I mean, we’re not going to be eliminating government agencies and departments, you know,
0:24:19 like Malay is doing down in Argentina.
0:24:20 I mean, that’s what we need.
0:24:22 We need that type of reform.
0:24:24 But I don’t think we’re going to get it.
0:24:29 I don’t think we’re we’re desperate enough yet that people aren’t it hasn’t been bad enough.
0:24:34 It took a long time for the Argentine people to be willing to swallow the bitter tasting medicine,
0:24:40 because in order to really make America great again, in order to go from a bubble economy to
0:24:45 a real economy that would really benefit everybody, there’s going to be a transition that’s going
0:24:46 to require a severe recession.
0:24:50 We’re going to have falling stock prices, falling real estate prices.
0:24:52 There’s going to be bankruptcies.
0:24:54 People are going to lose money.
0:25:00 All that is constructive, necessary, you know, restructure the economy the right way to go back
0:25:04 towards savings and production and away from debt and consumption.
0:25:06 They’re doing that in Argentina.
0:25:08 But we need to do that here.
0:25:10 But nobody is prepared for that.
0:25:11 Nobody wants to do it.
0:25:13 Donald Trump didn’t campaign on it.
0:25:17 And so all he can do is try to blow more air into the bubble.
0:25:20 That’s going to continue to exacerbate the income inequality.
0:25:23 It’s going to worsen the structural problems.
0:25:29 And it just exacerbates the ultimate financial crisis that we’re going to have.
0:25:30 I mean, there’s going to be a day of reckoning.
0:25:32 We haven’t had it yet.
0:25:35 We’ve been able to kick the can down the road every time we’ve gotten close.
0:25:36 But it’s coming.
0:25:38 You know, it’s long overdue.
0:25:40 And it’s going to be a lot worse because, you know, it took so long.
0:25:46 And so basically you’re saying until the American people get angry enough about what’s happening,
0:25:50 nothing’s going to change because nobody’s protesting in the streets about inflation right
0:25:50 now.
0:25:55 I mean, they protested to the point where they elected Trump, but Trump didn’t get elected
0:25:58 promising to take away anybody’s benefits.
0:26:00 The reality is Social Security needs to be cut.
0:26:04 Medicare, Obamacare, government pensions.
0:26:07 There needs to be cuts because there’s no money to make the payments.
0:26:09 But they don’t want to admit that.
0:26:10 So they’re just going to print money.
0:26:12 And then that just means more inflation.
0:26:16 But until we have substantive cuts, the inflation is not going to stop.
0:26:18 But we also need higher interest rates.
0:26:21 They’re still too low and the Fed is cutting them.
0:26:25 But if we get higher interest rates, well, that’s a huge problem for the leverage in the
0:26:26 economy.
0:26:31 And so they don’t want to let interest rates go to where they need to be because of the short
0:26:33 term pain that that will create.
0:26:34 But that’s what’s needed.
0:26:36 Now, the pain itself isn’t what’s needed.
0:26:41 But unfortunately, it’s necessary for us to get to where we need to be because it’s higher
0:26:43 interest rates that will encourage more savings.
0:26:49 And it’s savings that will result in more capital investment, more economic growth, better jobs.
0:26:51 All that stuff comes from savings and investment.
0:26:56 But we’re not going to get that if people are spending all their money, if people are buying
0:27:01 everything on credit cards and taking out student loans and all kinds of consumption-based
0:27:06 loans that starve the economy of the investment capital it needs to have real economic growth.
0:27:14 Why do you think America should spend billions of dollars on defense for other countries than
0:27:16 our old and six people in America?
0:27:18 I don’t understand that logic.
0:27:20 We shouldn’t really be doing either.
0:27:25 And it’s unfortunate that a lot of Americans can’t afford to take care of themselves because
0:27:27 they were overtaxed for so many years while they were working.
0:27:28 That’s the problem.
0:27:30 The government creates that dependency.
0:27:35 But the reason that we could actually get away with all this stuff is because the dollar
0:27:37 is still the primary reserve currency.
0:27:41 The world wants our dollars, even though it cost us nothing to create them.
0:27:48 And so we’re able to finance these massive deficits because of the unique status the dollar
0:27:48 has.
0:27:54 So we could create dollars out of thin air and use them to buy the goods that other people
0:27:56 work hard to produce.
0:27:57 And we get it basically for free.
0:28:02 So that’s really what’s allowing us to continue to live beyond our means.
0:28:05 There’s a point where we’re not going to be able to do that anymore.
0:28:07 And the dollar will collapse.
0:28:10 So we won’t be able to import all these products.
0:28:12 And we won’t be able to rely on foreign savings.
0:28:15 I mean, right now, the world loans us their savings.
0:28:17 The world buys our debt.
0:28:20 But when the world doesn’t want to do that anymore, we’re stuck.
0:28:25 OK, well, this is a good transition because you were just talking about how the dollar is
0:28:26 really worth nothing.
0:28:30 And something else that you always talk about is this concept of real assets.
0:28:34 So first of all, talk to us about what a real asset is, in your opinion.
0:28:40 Well, a real asset, something tangible or even intangible assets sometimes can be real,
0:28:42 intellectual property, things like that.
0:28:46 But a real asset, generally, you’re going to think about real estate.
0:28:51 You’re going to think about stocks that represent ownership in a business.
0:28:52 And you can own your own business, too.
0:28:54 You don’t have to own part of somebody else’s business.
0:28:58 But if you’re working for a living, you have a job, and you’re not going to start your own
0:29:04 company, pretty much investing in somebody else’s company is the best way to get that type of
0:29:05 equity.
0:29:09 But you own real things that the government can’t print as opposed to just having paper
0:29:10 like a bond.
0:29:13 If I just have a bond, I’ve loaned somebody money.
0:29:14 They’re going to pay me back.
0:29:20 That could be destroyed through inflation because if dollars lose value, I loaned somebody $1,000
0:29:23 and they pay me back in five years.
0:29:25 What’s the $1,000 going to buy?
0:29:25 I don’t know.
0:29:26 It may not buy very much.
0:29:27 We have a lot of inflation.
0:29:32 But if I take that $1,000 and buy a piece of property or into a piece of property or I
0:29:37 buy shares of a company, if there’s a lot of inflation, well, then the price of those
0:29:38 assets would go up.
0:29:40 It’s not like the price of the assets going up.
0:29:45 The value of the money is going down, but now you need more of the money to buy the assets.
0:29:51 So real assets can be a hedge against inflation, whereas paper assets just get destroyed by
0:29:51 inflation.
0:29:56 I feel like that’s so helpful for us when we’re thinking about what we should actually be investing
0:30:02 in tangible things, businesses via stocks or even buying a business, right?
0:30:03 Or investing in a business.
0:30:03 Go ahead.
0:30:07 It’s unfortunate because savings is still, it should be a good thing to do.
0:30:11 Putting money in a bank used to be not a bad place for your money.
0:30:14 And then the banks could take your money and loan it out.
0:30:15 They would make loans.
0:30:16 That’s how they paid you interest.
0:30:21 You used to back in the day before the government screwed it all up, you would go to the bank and
0:30:25 put your money in the bank and they’d pay you six, seven, 8% interest on your savings
0:30:28 account and how did the bank get the money to pay you that interest?
0:30:33 Well, they, they loaned it out to entrepreneurs who needed the money to start businesses and
0:30:36 then they charge them more and then you got paid.
0:30:41 And so people put their money in banks, but the problem is now you put your money to bank,
0:30:42 they pay you nothing, right?
0:30:44 There’s like no interest on a bank deposit.
0:30:49 Maybe you get a quarter of 1%, but inflation is many, many times that you’re punished.
0:30:52 If you put money in a bank, the government is punishing.
0:30:53 The government is taxing you.
0:30:57 You’re losing a value every year that you leave your money in the bank.
0:31:00 So you’re forced to do something else with it.
0:31:01 Otherwise you’re going to lose it.
0:31:07 But that’s unfortunate because those bank deposits could be vital to helping us grow the economy.
0:31:09 And we want to encourage savings.
0:31:11 We don’t want to punish people for saving.
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0:36:14 You also talk about investing in gold.
0:36:16 You’re known for showing off.
0:36:20 I don’t see any gold that you’re wearing right now, but you’re known for wearing gold all the
0:36:20 time.
0:36:21 Oh, no, I do.
0:36:22 I have a watch on.
0:36:23 It’s gold.
0:36:24 Oh, there you go.
0:36:25 You got a gold watch on.
0:36:27 So why do you invest in gold?
0:36:29 Why do you feel like it’s such a great store of value?
0:36:33 I look at gold not so much as an investment, but as a store of value.
0:36:35 So gold is money.
0:36:41 Gold constitutionally, if you know, in 1789, when they established the United States and
0:36:44 they wrote the Constitution, gold and silver were written in as money.
0:36:46 It’s the only lawful money in the country.
0:36:50 It’s the only thing that states can make legal tender is gold and silver.
0:36:55 The only thing the federal government was authorized to do was to take gold and make a coin out
0:36:56 of it, gold and silver.
0:36:58 So that’s money.
0:37:03 And when the country was started in 1789, the dollar, $20 was an ounce of gold.
0:37:06 By definition, that’s basically what it was.
0:37:08 If you had 20 paper, you know, $20, you had an ounce of gold.
0:37:14 And in 1913, 120 years later or so, it was exactly the same.
0:37:17 An ounce of gold was 20 bucks in 1913 when they created the Fed.
0:37:21 Now you need $2,750 to buy an ounce of gold.
0:37:26 The dollar has lost more than 99% of its value relative to gold because we’ve printed so many
0:37:27 of them.
0:37:30 Before we had a Federal Reserve, the dollar held its value.
0:37:35 So when you’re holding gold, you’re holding real money that doesn’t lose its value.
0:37:41 And in the future, gold is just like gold went up 100-fold, it’ll go up another 100-fold.
0:37:43 But it’s not gold going up.
0:37:47 It’s just the money going down because they keep printing it in order to fund the deficit
0:37:48 spending.
0:37:51 So gold is the way you can save your money.
0:37:56 Unfortunately, if I save in gold, it doesn’t have any real benefits for society because I’m
0:38:00 not putting my money in a bank where it can be loaned out, I’m putting it in a safe hidden
0:38:01 in my house somewhere.
0:38:04 But it’s unfortunate that people have to just buy gold.
0:38:08 Now you could loan out your gold, but nobody does that really.
0:38:09 I mean, you just save it.
0:38:13 But it’s still better than putting money in the bank and getting hardly any interest.
0:38:19 Gold, the US stock market over the last 25 years, even though it’s gone up fourfold, the
0:38:24 Dow Jones is four times what it was in the year 2000, gold is almost eight times.
0:38:28 So the stock market is actually going down if you price it in real money.
0:38:29 It’s only up.
0:38:32 It looks like it’s up when you price it in funny money.
0:38:36 But I don’t look at gold as an investment, more of just a store of wealth.
0:38:41 So if you want to get rich, buying gold is generally not how to do it.
0:38:46 But I like to invest, like you mentioned Warren Buffett, I like to invest in productive assets.
0:38:51 I have some gold and I recommend that everybody, you want to keep some gold, but you want to
0:38:52 invest in productive assets.
0:38:57 Now, probably the most lucrative asset you can invest in is your own business.
0:39:01 And again, I said earlier that the people who are really wealthy, that’s where their wealth
0:39:02 came from.
0:39:04 Now, yes, you could lose money in your own business too.
0:39:09 But if you’re successful and you do it well, generally investing in a successful business
0:39:14 that you own and control, the return will be better than just giving it to somebody else.
0:39:18 But if you don’t have your own business, you’re just working for wages, you’re not going to
0:39:22 get rich that way, but you can invest in other people’s businesses.
0:39:26 So you can invest in stocks, but you need to look at the companies.
0:39:30 You need to have some understanding of what you’re buying because a lot of people today
0:39:32 just buy a ticker symbol that’s going up.
0:39:37 And a lot of the stocks that people are buying are overpriced dramatically and that the people
0:39:42 who are buying them, ultimately someone’s going to get left holding the bag when the market
0:39:42 tanks.
0:39:48 So you have to look at undervalued companies that you could buy that pay good dividends and
0:39:52 have good earnings that may not be the sexy story that everybody’s talking about.
0:39:57 In fact, generally, if you want to buy something that has value, nobody’s talking about it.
0:39:59 When everybody’s talking about it, it’s expensive.
0:40:02 When all your friends are buying something, chances are they’re overpaying.
0:40:04 I mean, I do a lot of that.
0:40:09 I have in my company, Europe Pacific Asset Management, I have a team of portfolio managers and we’re looking
0:40:12 for these undervalued companies and we’re buying them for you.
0:40:18 I have five mutual funds that I run that people can buy a no load at any of the discount brokerage
0:40:23 firms or they can contact, you know, go to my website at europepack.com and get information
0:40:24 or talk to one of my representatives.
0:40:27 We can help you by buying the right companies.
0:40:32 I’m investing mostly outside the United States right now because most of the good companies
0:40:35 in America are very overpriced right now.
0:40:35 That’s a problem.
0:40:41 And so in order to get real value, a lot of times you’re in emerging markets to get that
0:40:41 value.
0:40:46 But long-term, and especially if you have a young audience, you got people in their
0:40:50 twenties and thirties and they’re trying to build a portfolio for when they get to be my
0:40:51 age, you know, I’m 61 or older.
0:40:57 I think the stocks that I’m buying are going to deliver much, much greater long-term returns
0:41:00 than people who are gambling on what’s hot right now.
0:41:04 And that would include anybody, you know, who’s been, you know, suckered into the crypto craze
0:41:09 because that’s the epitome of speculation because you’ve got absolutely nothing behind
0:41:09 it.
0:41:11 It’s just all air.
0:41:11 It’s all hype.
0:41:18 And so, yeah, people can make money off of other people’s greed and ignorance, but at some
0:41:19 point you run out of fools.
0:41:21 It’s called the greater fool theory.
0:41:26 Like you buy something because you expect some other fool to pay more and that fool buys it
0:41:30 because he thinks another fool will pay even more money than he did.
0:41:34 And so far that’s worked really well for the Bitcoin and some other things.
0:41:36 But it can’t go on forever.
0:41:38 Eventually, you run out of fools.
0:41:41 Now, right now, they’re trying to force the government to buy it.
0:41:47 Donald Trump was able to get a lot of campaign contributions and a lot of votes by pandering
0:41:48 to crypto.
0:41:51 Now they’re expecting, you know, something for that.
0:41:54 I don’t think Trump is going to deliver on those expectations.
0:41:56 I don’t think we’re going to have a Bitcoin reserve.
0:42:02 We may have some more regulation that is less obstructive, which is fine with me.
0:42:03 I don’t like regulation.
0:42:04 I mean, the less, the better.
0:42:05 And that would include crypto.
0:42:08 I just want less regulation and more freedom.
0:42:11 And that includes the freedom to lose your money.
0:42:12 People can do foolish things.
0:42:14 I don’t want to stop you.
0:42:16 You know, if you want to smoke cigarettes, smoke them.
0:42:17 I don’t advise it.
0:42:19 I don’t think it’s a healthy way to go.
0:42:20 But if you like it, go ahead and do it.
0:42:23 If you want to lose your money in crypto, go ahead.
0:42:26 It’s not up to me to tell you what to do with your money.
0:42:28 But the government shouldn’t buy any of it.
0:42:30 The government should encourage it.
0:42:39 Because, you know, the more resources, unfortunately, that go into crypto, the less resources that can go someplace else where they’re actually needed.
0:42:41 We want to produce things of real value.
0:42:43 We just don’t want to create worthless tokens.
0:42:45 That doesn’t give you anything.
0:42:50 I mean, yes, you can make money in crypto, but there’s no wealth that’s actually created.
0:42:56 All that happens is wealth is transferred from the people who buy the crypto to the people who are selling it.
0:42:57 You know, it’s like at a casino.
0:43:02 I mean, if I make money playing blackjack, I didn’t, you know, it’s because somebody lost money at the table.
0:43:05 There’s no wealth that’s created from that.
0:43:10 Now, maybe the casino makes a little money because they’re cutting the pot, but, you know, we’re not creating any wealth.
0:43:12 And that’s what’s going on with crypto.
0:43:20 I’d rather see people investing money productively, you know, so that we can have more goods and services to consume, not just more gambling.
0:43:24 There’s so much that I want to highlight and touch on and what you just said.
0:43:29 First of all, I feel like for my listeners tuning in, there’s a lot of people who want to be entrepreneurs.
0:43:36 And I want to highlight what you said about the fact that investing in your own business is probably the best investment that you can make.
0:43:39 I remember I started my business in 2020.
0:43:43 I took all my money out of the stock market because it was like tumbling.
0:43:47 And I decided I was just going to pour it into my social agency, my network.
0:43:50 I took all my podcaster sponsorship money.
0:43:51 My podcast was big back then.
0:43:54 And I just pumped it into hiring employees and all this stuff.
0:43:58 And I didn’t save any money, literally no money for like two years.
0:44:00 And I was just pumping it into my business.
0:44:04 My business made $7 million last year on track to make $10 million this year.
0:44:10 And I’m doing financially better than I ever would have if I like just put it in stocks.
0:44:10 Right.
0:44:11 I just invested in myself.
0:44:13 I mean, look, congratulations.
0:44:15 And that’s still what you’re saying.
0:44:16 You didn’t save any money.
0:44:20 You had savings and you invested those savings in your business.
0:44:27 But see, the way you get savings, and this is how it’s all upside down, you under consume, you earn money.
0:44:33 And instead of spending it on vacations or a fancy car or jewelry or handbags, right?
0:44:40 Like a lot of other gals might, you took that money and you forego those things, even though those things are fun.
0:44:47 I still bought a lot of handbags and clothes, but I’m sure you’re buying them now making $7 million a year.
0:44:49 You probably have a pretty nice closet there.
0:44:55 But the point is that years ago, instead of buying handbags, you invested in your business.
0:44:59 And so you delayed that gratification.
0:45:00 You under consumed.
0:45:02 You live beneath your means.
0:45:05 And that enabled you to grow your business.
0:45:07 And in the process, you hired other people.
0:45:09 You created other jobs.
0:45:18 And you’re also providing a service because people listen to your podcast because they enjoy it, because they gain something from the experience.
0:45:21 Either it’s entertainment or they get knowledge.
0:45:22 So you’re helping people.
0:45:25 And as a result of that, you’re making money.
0:45:29 And so, yeah, I mean, and you deserve what you’ve earned.
0:45:36 And if you probably look at all the people that are listening to your podcast, you’re not actually getting that much money from any one individual.
0:45:38 But you add them all up, right?
0:45:44 A lot of people, you make a little bit of money from a lot of people, and it turns into a pretty lucrative business.
0:45:46 But I’m sure you enjoy what you’re doing.
0:45:47 Yeah.
0:45:48 That is the key.
0:45:53 I mean, I tell a lot of people, look, you’ve got to go into business, but you’ve got to figure out what you enjoy.
0:46:00 Because in order to succeed at something, you have to spend a lot of time and devote a lot of efforts into doing it.
0:46:03 And if you don’t like it, it’s going to be very difficult to do.
0:46:07 Well, you’ve got to figure out what you’re good at, and you’ve got to figure out what you like.
0:46:09 And hopefully, they’re the same thing.
0:46:12 And then you have the ability to really grow a business.
0:46:17 And some people maybe don’t have a lot of the skills that might be required.
0:46:24 And so you might need to take in a partner or have somebody else that might be able to do parts of the business that maybe you can’t do on your own.
0:46:32 And I’m sure now, too, now that you’re bigger, you said, you know, you have employees that, you know, you have tasks to do certain things so that it frees up your time to do other things.
0:46:37 So I want to talk to you about Bitcoin, because I also was skeptical about Bitcoin.
0:46:43 I remember I did like basically a documentary series about Bitcoin in 2018.
0:46:45 I interviewed like all these experts.
0:46:48 It took me three months to put out the project.
0:46:49 And then what did I do?
0:46:52 I didn’t invest in Bitcoin after all of that.
0:46:59 And I am kicking myself now because I would have been so rich had I just done that in 2018 when I was doing all this research about it.
0:47:02 But I was always skeptical about Bitcoin, too.
0:47:07 But I just don’t understand really like logically how it’s actually that much different than gold.
0:47:09 Gold is a finite resource.
0:47:12 Bitcoin has a 21 million cap, right?
0:47:15 There’s only 21 million Bitcoin out there.
0:47:17 They both don’t really have that much utility.
0:47:19 So how are they much different?
0:47:24 Well, first of all, there’s a there’s a big difference between gold and Bitcoin.
0:47:42 But Bitcoin was modeled after gold in that they tried to replicate in Bitcoin some of the properties that made gold better money than salt or cattle or other things that have been used as money over the centuries.
0:47:48 That’s why Bitcoin is represented to look like a coin and its color is gold.
0:47:51 It’s not an accident that they chose gold, right?
0:47:52 They wanted to make it look like gold.
0:47:55 The way you create a Bitcoin is you mine it.
0:47:57 Well, there’s no mining.
0:47:58 There’s no picks and shovels.
0:47:59 Why do they call it mining?
0:48:00 Well, because you mine gold.
0:48:04 But the way you create a Bitcoin is you solve a mathematical equation.
0:48:07 So that’s not doing math problems isn’t mining.
0:48:11 So they try to kind of counterfeit the properties of gold.
0:48:12 They made it visible.
0:48:15 Yes, Bitcoin is scarce.
0:48:17 There’s 21 million Bitcoin.
0:48:20 But, you know, there’s 2.1 quadrillion Satoshis.
0:48:21 That’s the smallest unit.
0:48:24 So 2.1 quadrillion is a pretty big number, right?
0:48:27 So there’s plenty of Satoshis to go around, right?
0:48:30 Everybody can have several hundred thousand of those things.
0:48:33 So it’s not like it’s scarce in that sense because you can divide it.
0:48:39 You can’t divide gold into that small particles because they’d blow away.
0:48:40 You wouldn’t have any idea where they were.
0:48:42 And you need a certain amount of gold.
0:48:44 Like I showed you my gold watch.
0:48:46 I’m sure you have a lot of gold jewelry.
0:48:47 That is utility.
0:48:52 Gold is the most useful metal on the periodic table.
0:48:55 There’s more you can do with gold than any other metal.
0:49:00 The reason we don’t use gold more is because it’s too expensive, because it’s so valuable.
0:49:03 But for certain things, gold is used.
0:49:05 There’s gold in every cell phone.
0:49:14 Gold is a very useful metal in industry, in electronics, in medicine, in dentistry, in aerospace.
0:49:22 They’re constantly coming up with new uses for gold because there are things that you can do with gold that you can’t do with any other metal.
0:49:28 And so the reason that gold is a store of value is because, unlike other metals, gold doesn’t decay.
0:49:30 It doesn’t tarnish.
0:49:35 You find a wrecked ship that went down in the Caribbean 500 years ago.
0:49:40 If you could find that shipwreck, if there was some gold, it’s still there.
0:49:44 It looks exactly the way it looked, but the day it sunk, everything else is gone.
0:49:50 But the gold is still there, and it’s just as beautiful as it was 500 years ago when the ship sunk.
0:50:02 So if you have gold and you don’t use it to make a product, if I just hold a gold bar, a gold coin, in 1,000 years, somebody can take that gold coin and do whatever they want with it.
0:50:05 They can melt it back down, and they can use it for whatever they want.
0:50:11 So when you own gold, you are storing all of the things that you can do with gold in the future.
0:50:16 If I tried to do that with anything else in 1,000 years, it might not be there anymore.
0:50:17 It’s gone.
0:50:19 It’s disintegrated, decayed.
0:50:24 And gold is relatively inexpensive to store for all the value that you pack into a small place.
0:50:28 So Bitcoin isn’t a store of value because it doesn’t have any actual value.
0:50:30 You don’t do anything with a Bitcoin.
0:50:32 Nobody does anything with Bitcoin.
0:50:33 You just hold onto it.
0:50:37 You can trade it, but that doesn’t mean it has any intrinsic value.
0:50:38 You just buy it and selling it.
0:50:41 The person who buys it just turns around and sells it.
0:50:43 No one does anything with it.
0:50:50 Even if you don’t do anything with the gold that you buy, somebody in the future could do something with that gold, and that’s why it has value today.
0:50:55 Bitcoin has a price, and price and value are two totally different things.
0:51:02 And Bitcoin’s price has gone up dramatically since I first learned about it when it was under $10.
0:51:06 But it doesn’t have any more value because the value is zero, really.
0:51:10 But if the longest people want to buy it, the price can keep going up.
0:51:14 The problem is when people stop wanting to buy it, then the price crashes.
0:51:16 And why do people want to buy Bitcoin?
0:51:17 Because they think they’re going to get rich.
0:51:19 They think the price is going to go to the moon.
0:51:21 That’s why they’re holding onto it.
0:51:27 But the supply of cryptocurrencies continues to explode.
0:51:30 You know, now they’re creating like a million meme coins a day.
0:51:34 The Donald Trump meme coin, that has a limited supply, too.
0:51:36 I mean, it’s a billion of them.
0:51:40 But again, I said there’s 2.1 quadrillion Satoshis, so forget about the numbers.
0:51:43 And there’s a Melania coin, and who knows how many other coins.
0:51:50 But there’s all kinds of tokens before the coins that you could buy that all compete with Bitcoin.
0:51:56 There’s an unlimited supply of cryptos that could be created that are exactly like Bitcoin.
0:52:02 In fact, a lot of them are better in that they’re cheaper to transfer.
0:52:05 And so why not use those, right?
0:52:10 I mean, it costs less money to actually send them or try to use them for whatever.
0:52:11 They’re faster and cheaper.
0:52:14 So what’s so special about Bitcoin?
0:52:17 The only thing that’s special about it is that it was the first one.
0:52:21 And because it’s the first one, it’s got the most capacity behind it.
0:52:24 You have a lot of Bitcoin miners that are out there.
0:52:28 You have a bigger network that has been built up surrounding Bitcoin.
0:52:30 But that’s today.
0:52:33 Who knows what it’s going to be like tomorrow with Bitcoin and that?
0:52:36 I mean, the first is never the best.
0:52:37 I talked about cell phones.
0:52:41 The first cell phone is not the cell phone that people use today.
0:52:42 They made better cell phones.
0:52:43 They made cheaper cell phones.
0:52:46 The first car, the first television.
0:52:48 I mean, those are antiquated at this point.
0:52:50 I think it’s just a passing fad.
0:52:53 Yeah, it’s been around for 15 years or so.
0:52:58 But it hasn’t really been on most people’s radar until the last five years or so.
0:53:06 Really, 2017, it kind of like showed up and more people started to talk about it when it shot up to 20,000, you know, out of nowhere.
0:53:09 And then all of a sudden, people started talking about it.
0:53:12 It hasn’t really been around that long.
0:53:13 But it’s not money.
0:53:15 It’s not digital gold.
0:53:19 Any more than an image of a hamburger is digital food.
0:53:22 You can’t eat an image of a hamburger.
0:53:30 You can’t use a picture of a Bitcoin to make jewelry or to conduct electricity or any of the things that gold is used for.
0:53:32 You can’t just substitute Bitcoin.
0:53:34 Now, there are a lot of people who say, well, you know, it’s digital gold.
0:53:36 It’s not digital anything.
0:53:39 They confuse, like, digital music.
0:53:47 I don’t need a record or even a cassette tape or a disc anymore to listen to music, right?
0:53:49 I don’t need to buy a physical object.
0:53:52 I can listen to music digitally.
0:53:55 And that’s fine because it’s the same experience.
0:53:57 I can dance to digital music.
0:53:58 I can sing along to it.
0:53:59 I can tap my foot to it.
0:54:05 So I don’t need the physical record and a phonograph or, you know, whatever, you know, to do it.
0:54:07 But it’s not the same thing with food.
0:54:09 And it’s not the same thing with gold.
0:54:11 Gold’s an actual metal.
0:54:14 I can’t just substitute an image of gold.
0:54:19 Like, I can substitute digital music for a record or even a book.
0:54:21 I can have a digital book that I can read.
0:54:23 So I don’t need a physical book.
0:54:25 I can just read the words on a computer.
0:54:27 But I can’t do that with gold.
0:54:28 So it doesn’t work.
0:54:30 Just because it works for some things.
0:54:35 People want to say, oh, you know, you have analog gold and Bitcoin is digital gold.
0:54:36 No, Bitcoin is nothing.
0:54:37 It’s digital fool’s gold.
0:54:40 It’s not actual, actual gold.
0:54:45 But, you know, initially, when if you go back and read the white paper from Bitcoin, it was
0:54:53 supposed to be money, a peer-to-peer monetary system that people would use in transactions to purchase goods and services.
0:54:57 But it doesn’t actually work for that because it’s so slow and so expensive and it’s volatile.
0:55:01 So nobody uses it for the purpose that was created.
0:55:04 Now, early on, it was used to some extent.
0:55:08 You know, they just let Albright out of jail and he did the Silk Road.
0:55:14 In the early days of Bitcoin, you did have people using Bitcoin to buy things that were illegal.
0:55:21 And it didn’t matter that the price was very volatile because, you know, whenever you’re laundering money, I mean, you’re always going to lose a bunch.
0:55:30 Right. And so if you lose 20 percent in the VIG because the guy that laundered your money charged you 20 points to clean it up, that was OK.
0:55:34 So people didn’t mind if they were drug dealers were selling drugs for Bitcoin.
0:55:38 If the Bitcoin went down 20 or 30 percent, it’s OK.
0:55:41 I still got 70 percent left, which is pretty good.
0:55:45 But nobody really used it for legal, ordinary transactions.
0:55:46 There was no reason to do that.
0:55:48 But now nobody does that.
0:55:51 They just hold it and all the all they do is trade it.
0:55:58 And now you have ETFs that own it and companies have been going into debt to buy it like Michael Saylor.
0:56:02 I mean, that’s one of the reasons that the price does not collapse is you got these big companies.
0:56:06 Michael Saylor is borrowing a billion dollars a week to buy Bitcoin.
0:56:08 Does that Bitcoin generate any real income?
0:56:09 No, it doesn’t generate anything.
0:56:13 He’s just propping up the price by going into debt to buy more of it.
0:56:15 Well, let me tell the listeners about this.
0:56:15 They probably don’t know.
0:56:17 It’s a micro strategy.
0:56:25 It’s a technology company and they are buying Bitcoin and they have two percent of the world’s Bitcoin as their investment.
0:56:28 They’ve like made Bitcoin their corporate strategy.
0:56:30 They used to be a software company.
0:56:36 And I suppose also tiny software company buried beneath all that debt and Bitcoin.
0:56:41 But for all practical purpose, they’re now just a Bitcoin, a levered Bitcoin company.
0:56:47 Their business model is to go into debt and issue shares to buy Bitcoin.
0:56:50 And then they try to encourage everybody else to buy Bitcoin.
0:56:51 That’s their business.
0:56:55 But the whole thing is going to collapse at some point.
0:56:56 The stock is going to implode.
0:56:58 I think it goes bankrupt eventually.
0:56:59 The question is when.
0:57:02 But Bitcoin is not digital gold.
0:57:04 It’s not real money.
0:57:08 It’s really a digital Ponzi, like a pyramid scheme, a chain letter.
0:57:10 I call it a blockchain letter.
0:57:14 The fact that it’s digital internet and all that, that’s what’s new.
0:57:17 But the idea of a pyramid, that’s old.
0:57:21 I was going to ask you, could it replace the dollar?
0:57:23 But you answered that because you said, no, it’s too volatile.
0:57:25 We’ll never just replace the dollar.
0:57:27 It’s not going to replace any currencies.
0:57:30 And it’s certainly not going to replace gold.
0:57:35 I mean, people are gambling on Bitcoin instead of gambling on other things.
0:57:40 It’s certainly a substitute for other ways that you could gamble with your money.
0:57:42 But that’s because Bitcoin has been hot.
0:57:43 People have been making money.
0:57:47 Once a lot of people lose a lot of money, it’s going to be a different story.
0:57:49 Bitcoin is at $100,000.
0:57:56 When it’s at $10,000 and people have lost 90% of their money, it’s not going to be so popular anymore.
0:58:01 And a lot of people who own Bitcoin now own it through these exchange-traded funds.
0:58:03 They’ve bought in their brokerage accounts.
0:58:07 They just bought it because it was going up and there was a lot of hype around it.
0:58:11 But when the price really starts to fall, they’re just going to sell.
0:58:12 They’re not going to hold on forever.
0:58:14 They’re going to move on to something else.
0:58:21 They’re going to cut their losses or take whatever profits they have left and move them to another casino.
0:58:30 And then the price is going to collapse instead of, you know, right now you have a lot of stories about people who bought Lamborghinis because they put a little bit of money into Bitcoin.
0:58:32 And, you know, now they’ve got all this stuff.
0:58:40 But they’re going to be replaced by stories of people who went bankrupt because they bought Bitcoin, because they borrowed money to buy Bitcoin.
0:58:44 And, you know, right now people are still trying to say that you’re getting in early.
0:58:47 Buy Bitcoin because you’re getting in early.
0:58:47 It’s still early.
0:58:48 It is not early.
0:58:50 Everybody knows about Bitcoin.
0:58:53 Every cab driver, every cocktail waitress.
0:58:57 You’re not getting in early when everybody knows about it.
0:59:00 There’s an old saying, you know, you’re at a poker player, poker table.
0:59:02 And, you know, if you don’t know who the sucker is, it’s you.
0:59:04 People buying now are the suckers.
0:59:10 But if everybody just keeps believing in it and nobody ever stops believing in it, then what will happen?
0:59:13 Yes, but people do stop believing in it.
0:59:15 It’s like if once people get nervous, it’s just going to crumble.
0:59:19 Nothing that can’t go on forever will.
0:59:26 I mean, that’s why Pyramids schemes, Ponzi schemes, they’re illegal and they’re illegal because they can’t go on forever.
0:59:32 Look, Bernie Madoff had a Ponzi and it went on for a long time, but they can’t go on forever.
0:59:33 They eventually collapse.
0:59:40 And so the same thing is going to happen with crypto, not just Bitcoin, the whole the whole thing, all these tokens.
0:59:44 Now, is there a future to tokenization?
0:59:44 Maybe.
0:59:47 I mean, they talked about this 10 years ago.
0:59:49 We can tokenize real assets.
0:59:55 You can take real estate and tokenize it so that ownership of real estate can be evidenced by a token.
1:00:02 And so instead of selling you a physical deed, I sell you the token that that represents ownership.
1:00:07 You can tokenize companies instead of having shares on an exchange.
1:00:14 A company can issue tokens and those tokens can trade on a blockchain and cut out the exchange and the brokers and all that.
1:00:18 So is there a potential to tokenize real things?
1:00:19 You could tokenize gold.
1:00:24 I mean, gold can be stored and then ownership can be evidenced by a token.
1:00:29 And now I can go into a Starbucks and pay for coffee with gold.
1:00:33 More importantly, Starbucks can receive real gold for their coffee, right?
1:00:36 We can tokenize gold and then it can circulate as money.
1:00:40 So is there a potential for blockchain and tokenization?
1:00:40 Sure.
1:00:47 But so far, nobody has even bothered to go in that direction because all everybody cares about is creating coins for nothing.
1:00:58 When you create a coin out of nothing and then sell it, why create a coin out of something that actually costs you money when I can create one from out of nothing that costs me nothing?
1:01:00 Now, Bitcoin doesn’t cost nothing.
1:01:03 You actually spend a lot of money to solve those math problems.
1:01:10 And that’s why people think Bitcoin is different than, let’s say, Trump coin because of the proof of work.
1:01:17 If you create a Bitcoin, you had to do the work of solving this problem to get that Bitcoin.
1:01:20 And so people think that that work gives it value.
1:01:23 Just like if I want to mine gold, that requires work.
1:01:25 I’ve got to physically get it out of the ground.
1:01:29 It takes a lot of effort and energy to produce that gold.
1:01:32 And it does take a lot of energy to produce a Bitcoin.
1:01:33 I’m not denying that.
1:01:40 The difference is when you use energy to produce Bitcoin, you’ve wasted all that energy because at the end of the day, you’ve produced nothing.
1:01:41 Right.
1:01:46 So proof of work doesn’t mean anything if my work didn’t create anything of any value.
1:02:05 If you think about it this way, if I have a piece of property and I spend $10,000 digging a gigantic hole in that property, and then I spend another $10,000 taking all that dirt and filling the hole back up so that I have exactly what I started with, a flat piece of ground.
1:02:07 But I spent $20,000.
1:02:08 What’s it worth?
1:02:09 What did I create?
1:02:10 I created nothing.
1:02:13 Also horrible for the environment with all the data centers that it takes.
1:02:14 Yeah, exactly.
1:02:21 I mean, Michael Saylor, again, says that Bitcoin is like digital energy because it takes energy to produce it.
1:02:22 Yes.
1:02:25 But once you’ve used that energy, it’s gone.
1:02:26 You waste energy.
1:02:33 It’s not like Bitcoin is a battery where if I own a Bitcoin, I can plug it into something and get that energy back out.
1:02:36 All the energy that was used to create Bitcoin is gone.
1:02:43 The energy that was used to create gold is still there in the gold because now I can use the gold for something.
1:02:45 Bitcoin isn’t used for anything.
1:02:56 So while using energy to mine an ounce of gold is a productive use of that energy, using energy to solve a math problem to create a Bitcoin is a complete waste.
1:02:59 That energy should be used for something that energy that energy should be used for something else.
1:03:02 But unfortunately, it’s being wasted on these digital tokens.
1:03:05 It’s really interesting to hear your thoughts about Bitcoin.
1:03:14 My main takeaway from this is don’t put my cash in the bank invested in gold because it’s not going to be impacted by inflation.
1:03:20 If you want to save your money in this nice, safe store of value, buy gold.
1:03:34 If you want to make investments, talk to my team at Europe Pacific Asset Management about finding good quality investments outside your own business, companies that pay good dividends, that are growing their earnings and I think will be a lot more valuable in the future.
1:03:43 If you want to gamble, right, if you just have some throwaway money, you want to gamble with it, you could bet on the Super Bowl or you could buy some Bitcoin.
1:03:50 I mean, I’m not telling people that you can’t buy it and you may make money as long as you sell it before the bottom drops out.
1:03:55 You could make money, people, you know, in Bitcoin and maybe it will go higher.
1:04:01 I can’t say for sure where the top is, but somebody is going to get stuck holding the bag.
1:04:06 The only way you make sure that it’s not you is not to buy it, but don’t think of it as investing.
1:04:11 If you buy it, you’re just, you’re just gambling and you’re hoping that you could sell out before the music stops.
1:04:12 That makes sense.
1:04:13 And we saw it with NFTs.
1:04:15 NFTs were like so hot.
1:04:17 Nobody’s even talking about them anymore.
1:04:19 Well, because it was just, again, it’s nothing.
1:04:20 I mean, what were they?
1:04:23 I mean, they, they created all the hype.
1:04:24 They did it with this Beeple.
1:04:32 They had some insiders in Ethereum, whatever, that paid 40 million worth of Ethereum to buy this Beeple.
1:04:34 And that set off the craze.
1:04:36 And everybody and their brother just launched NFTs.
1:04:41 I remember in Art Basel, I was there one year and they, they’re trying to show their NFTs.
1:04:45 Like it’s actual art because, oh, we got this image of it, of something.
1:04:49 I could just take a photograph of an NFT and I have the exact same thing, right?
1:04:55 A digital camera, just, you know, just because I own the original image, why not just own a copy?
1:05:03 And they would say, well, you know, you can own a copy of a Rembrandt, but yes, but that’s different than the actual Rembrandt that the, that he painted himself.
1:05:06 Like, you know, 500 years ago, that is actually rare.
1:05:09 No, I mean, so there’s somebody creating an NFT.
1:05:10 I mean, I was nothing.
1:05:15 It was a bunch of hype and people made some money on it really quickly.
1:05:23 They got in and they got out all that money, all the profits that people make in those things comes at the expense of the money.
1:05:27 Everybody else loses those zero sum games or negative sum games.
1:05:29 They’re not good for society.
1:05:38 If somebody creates a business and the shareholders get rich by investing early in that business, everybody wins.
1:05:42 The investors win, the customers win, the employees win.
1:05:44 It’s not a negative sum game.
1:05:53 It’s a productive use of money, unlike crypto, which doesn’t benefit anybody except the people who cash out at the expense of the people who buy in.
1:05:57 We’ll be right back after a quick break from our sponsors.
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1:09:07 Hey, young impropters.
1:09:10 I know so many of you are in your grind season.
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1:09:16 That’s how I started Yap Media.
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1:11:05 Okay, as we close this interview out, the last thing I want to talk about is the potential of a recession.
1:11:12 So I saw you on Tom Bilyeu’s show last year when you said 2025 might be the worst recession that we’ve ever seen.
1:11:15 You called it, I think, potentially a Great Depression.
1:11:18 I know that at that point you didn’t know Trump was going to be president.
1:11:21 So you are famous for predicting things.
1:11:23 You predicted the 2008 crash.
1:11:26 So what do you predict is going to happen with Trump’s presidency?
1:11:30 And do you still think we’re going to see a big recession?
1:11:33 Well, first of all, I did think that Trump was going to win.
1:11:37 I was one of the first people publicly to say he was going to win.
1:11:47 And the reason I knew Trump would win, or I was pretty confident, was that I knew that the economy was not nearly as good as the media claimed, as Biden and then Harris claimed.
1:11:51 I thought we were in a recession pretty much all of last year.
1:11:55 And I think beneath the rosy statistics, there was a recession.
1:12:00 And when they polled the voters and they asked, why did you vote Trump?
1:12:02 The number one response was the economy.
1:12:05 Now, that’s because the economy was bad, right?
1:12:09 If it was good, they would have voted for Harris because they would have wanted four more years.
1:12:11 They voted for Trump because the economy was bad.
1:12:17 All the jobs that were created that Biden was bragging about, they were all part-time jobs.
1:12:20 And they went to people who already had a job or two.
1:12:22 People were struggling to make ends meet.
1:12:25 They were working multiple jobs that they would rather not have.
1:12:27 People were living on debt.
1:12:30 You know, we have record high credit card debt and household debt.
1:12:31 That’s not a good sign.
1:12:34 And if the economy was good, you’d be paying off your debt.
1:12:40 You wouldn’t be putting on more and you wouldn’t be having record debt when credit card interest rates are at 24%.
1:12:46 And a record number of people right now are just making the minimum payment on those credit cards at 24%.
1:12:50 So I think we’ve had a weak economy and I think it’s going to get weaker.
1:12:55 But I want to tell you something about recessions and the business cycle.
1:12:59 Because recessions are actually good.
1:13:05 They may not feel good, just like sometimes medicine doesn’t taste good, but it can cure what ails you.
1:13:08 And the problem isn’t the recession.
1:13:11 The recession is part of the solution.
1:13:18 The problem is the artificial boom that precedes the recession and that makes the recession necessary.
1:13:27 So what happens is the government interferes in the economy by keeping interest rates artificially low and printing too much money, which is what we did.
1:13:31 As a result of that, resources become misallocated.
1:13:35 Capital is malinvested.
1:13:38 And so projects that shouldn’t be funded get funded.
1:13:42 So the economy gets all screwed up because of the government intervention.
1:13:52 And then, eventually, the market tries to fix everything that the government broke and put the resources back to where they need to go.
1:13:56 But that process always leads to a recession.
1:13:59 But the problem is the government tries to fight the recession.
1:14:01 They try to stop it.
1:14:03 What they’re really trying to do is stop the cure.
1:14:06 And the way they stop the cure is they make the disease worse.
1:14:12 They do more of what created the bubble that the recession is trying to cure.
1:14:16 You know, an example that I gave in my book, I’ve written several books.
1:14:18 I haven’t written one recently.
1:14:29 But in The Real Crash, which is the book that predicted the 2008 financial crisis and the recession, which came out in 07, I use the analogy of a circus.
1:14:32 And I don’t even know if you’re old enough to remember traveling circuses.
1:14:39 But when I was a kid, Ringling Brothers, Barnum & Bailey, they would come into town and they’d have a big tent and you’d go to the circus.
1:14:43 But the circus was there for a couple of weeks and then they left.
1:14:50 They pulled up the stakes and all the bearded lady and the elephants and everybody went to another town, right?
1:14:51 So in my book, I wrote an example.
1:14:53 Hey, let’s say a circus comes to town.
1:15:01 And now all the circus, all the performers that work at the circus start going to a local restaurant to eat.
1:15:05 And now this restaurant in this small town is really busy.
1:15:07 He’s got all, you know, oh, my God, look at this, all these people coming.
1:15:09 And he thinks, you know, I should expand.
1:15:12 Maybe I should take on, I should build out more space.
1:15:14 I should rent the place next to me.
1:15:15 Let me staff up.
1:15:16 I need more waiters.
1:15:19 I need more cooks because, you know, business is booming.
1:15:21 So he does this.
1:15:22 He does all that.
1:15:23 And then the circus leaves.
1:15:25 And now the business collapses.
1:15:27 Well, now what does he have to do?
1:15:29 Well, I got to lay people off.
1:15:30 I hired too many people.
1:15:31 I have excess space.
1:15:33 So now he has a recession.
1:15:40 The problem is that restaurant owner misinterpreted the information he was getting from the circus.
1:15:45 He looked at this increase in demand and he thought it was some permanent increase in demand.
1:15:51 And so he made investments based on that information that he misinterpreted.
1:15:53 He hired people he shouldn’t have hired.
1:15:55 He expanded when he shouldn’t have expanded.
1:15:59 So during the recession, he fixed what he got wrong.
1:16:00 And so that’s what the government does.
1:16:03 The government prints a bunch of money and people spend that money.
1:16:10 And businesses make decisions on who to hire, on where to invest based on what they think is a real increase in demand.
1:16:11 But it turns out it was all false.
1:16:12 It was all a bunch of inflation.
1:16:14 There was no real increase in demand.
1:16:16 People didn’t really have that.
1:16:18 There’s no savings to support that.
1:16:24 Because when interest rates go down in a free market economy, interest rates go down when savings go up.
1:16:27 When you have more savings, you have lower interest rates.
1:16:36 And people can afford to make long-term investments because people are expressing a preference to consume in the future and not in the present.
1:16:37 That’s why they’re saving their money.
1:16:41 And so businesses can invest in capacity that’s going to pay off in the future.
1:16:43 But the government comes in.
1:16:44 They artificially suppress interest rates.
1:16:46 Businesses misinterpret that.
1:16:48 They make investments they really can’t afford.
1:16:51 The economy just, they make all kinds of mistakes.
1:16:55 The recession is when the market tries to fix what the government broke.
1:17:04 So we need recessions and all of our policies that are made to prevent recessions, to mitigate recessions are all misguided.
1:17:09 And they end up just sowing the seeds of the next recession and making it worse.
1:17:19 And so when the dot-com bubble popped in 2001, the Fed cut interest rates to 1% and inflated the housing bubble.
1:17:27 Instead of allowing a deeper recession, we bought time by slashing interest rates and inflating a housing bubble.
1:17:31 And then that bubble popped and we had a worse recession than the one we had in 2001.
1:17:39 But instead of letting that recession run its course, they cut interest rates to zero and they did quantitative easing.
1:17:50 We haven’t even had the real crisis that is the result of these mistakes because they’ve been compounded and then they were compounded even more during COVID.
1:18:01 The problems are just so pronounced at this point that the collapse, I wrote a book in my last book, which I wrote in 2013, was called The Real Crash, America’s Coming Bankruptcy.
1:18:05 And that’s a book that people could still read, even though I wrote it a long time ago.
1:18:08 The crisis that I was predicting hasn’t happened yet, but it will.
1:18:13 Because all the problems that I laid out have just gotten worse since I wrote the book.
1:18:15 And so the piper is going to have to be paid.
1:18:16 And that’s coming.
1:18:18 I mean, there’s still some bright spots out there.
1:18:25 There’s a lot of promise with AI and the increases in productivity that will ultimately result from that.
1:18:31 But, you know, before we can get to that, we got a lot of stuff that we’re going to have to go through first.
1:18:41 And people should understand it, be prepared for it, understand the cause of the problems that, you know, so they don’t blame capitalism, the free market, you know, the rich.
1:18:43 It’s about too much government.
1:18:50 It’s about government central planning and central banking and regulating that that is screwed up at the economy.
1:18:53 And the solution is not going to be even more government.
1:19:00 The ultimate solution is what they’re doing in Argentina, which is to take a cleaver to government, not just to waste, fraud and abuse.
1:19:02 But you have to get into the meat, right?
1:19:02 Not just the fat.
1:19:09 You got to cut down to the bone to free up those resources and liberate the economy from the government.
1:19:14 In terms of entrepreneurs, how can we prepare for this type of recession?
1:19:19 And what is our role in terms of a capitalism to help boost the economy?
1:19:28 Definitely recognize that if your business is dependent on U.S. consumers, you need to recognize that you could see a big downturn.
1:19:33 Because Americans, many of them are broke, and they’re only consuming because they can keep going into debt.
1:19:35 And that’s going to come to a stop.
1:19:45 So I think that most businesses should try to focus on trying to find consumers that may be able to afford their products or their services in the future.
1:19:46 And so they may be abroad.
1:19:48 They may be in the emerging markets.
1:19:56 So to the extent that you can have a business that does some exports, that can tap into what I think is going to be an emerging market.
1:20:02 Because I think as the world stops buying our dollars and loaning us money, they’re going to have a lot more of their wealth for themselves.
1:20:07 And so I think as consumption goes down in the U.S., it’s going to go up in other parts of the world.
1:20:08 And so you could profit from that.
1:20:11 You can position yourself to profit.
1:20:13 You could also have savings.
1:20:16 Again, as I said, have some rainy day money in gold and silver.
1:20:20 You know, I’ve got a company, Shift Gold, that people can go to to buy gold and silver.
1:20:22 What are the problems in gold and silver?
1:20:30 And the reason that I ended up starting that company when I did is a lot of people were getting ripped off because they were getting talked into buying numismatics.
1:20:32 And most of them aren’t real collectibles.
1:20:41 They’re just pumped up, heavily marked up products that a lot of gold and silver companies push on their customers because that’s the only way to make any real money.
1:20:43 There’s not a lot of people buying gold and silver.
1:20:47 So if you get a customer, you just overcharge them for this nonsense.
1:20:49 And so we don’t sell any of that.
1:20:52 You know, so if you go to Shift Gold, you’re just going to get bullion.
1:20:57 You’re going to get bars or coins where the markup is very slim.
1:21:02 And so if gold goes up 20%, you can sell your coins back and make 18%.
1:21:04 The markup is very thin.
1:21:13 You go to a lot of these gold companies, you need the price of gold to go up 50% just to break even because that’s how much they marked up the coins that you bought.
1:21:18 So you want to just buy bullion so you have, you know, the liquidity and it’s a good rainy day fund.
1:21:23 But I also encourage people, I’ve been encouraging people to do this for years now.
1:21:24 And this is not just businesses.
1:21:26 This is just consumers.
1:21:30 And it’s unfortunate that this is the advice that I have to give.
1:21:47 But if you have extra money, one thing you can do with it is stock up on stuff that you’re going to need, stuff that doesn’t perish, things that have a long shelf life, whether it’s, you know, razor blades or batteries or a shaving cream or a toilet paper.
1:21:59 I mean, although toilet paper, you know, it takes up more room, but, you know, things that are expensive that, you know, you’re going to need, you might as well buy them now because they’re just going to be more expensive later and they could be a lot more expensive.
1:22:04 And what I’m worried about is price controls because they’ve already hinted at it.
1:22:06 Harris talked about it.
1:22:10 Even Trump talked about price controls when it comes to credit card interest.
1:22:11 He wanted to try to cap that.
1:22:23 But I think prices are going to start to rise so quickly that there’s going to be a lot of politicians looking for price controls to just prevent prices from going up.
1:22:30 And that doesn’t get to the source of inflation that gets to the consequence of it.
1:22:37 It’s like if you have a cancer and, you know, a skin cancer and you put a bandaid on the cancer, you’re not stopping it.
1:22:38 You’re just covering it up.
1:22:45 And if you try to control prices, but you keep creating inflation, expanding the money supply, you haven’t done anything about the problem.
1:22:48 You’re just trying to hide the consequences.
1:22:52 But what happens when the government has price controls is that you have shortages.
1:22:54 You just don’t have products.
1:22:55 You have rationing.
1:22:57 You have black markets.
1:23:02 And so if you want to buy something, you can’t buy it legally because there’s nothing there.
1:23:03 So you have to go to the black market.
1:23:06 And now it’s even more expensive than if there had never been a price control.
1:23:14 So rather than waiting for products to be illegal where you have to buy them on the black market, just buy them now.
1:23:25 Because if you buy something and a year from now it’s 10% more expensive, but you bought it now, that’s a 10% return tax-free on your investment in whatever product you bought.
1:23:27 So it’s better than just putting the money in the bank.
1:23:33 And, you know, what’s going to happen too, as prices really start to go up, people are going to start hoarding stuff.
1:23:36 So then the government says, okay, you can only buy one at a time.
1:23:38 And now people have to wait in a long line to get stuff.
1:23:44 And eventually you could barter some of these things, you know, so people, people need to buy real things, unfortunately.
1:23:46 So, and businesses, right?
1:23:55 If there’s certain inventory that you need in a business, you can buy that inventory now rather than waiting till you need it when it could be a lot more expensive.
1:24:02 If you can invest in your inventory, if you know you have a good that it isn’t going down in price, it’s just going to keep going up.
1:24:08 It’s better to buy the inventory than to leave the cash in the bank and buy the inventory later when it’s a lot more expensive.
1:24:10 Such good insight.
1:24:11 A little scary.
1:24:12 I’m not going to lie.
1:24:15 I’m like thinking about like, okay, what storage do I have?
1:24:18 I got to load up on this toilet paper or whatever I’m going to buy.
1:24:19 Right.
1:24:21 During COVID, toilet paper was valuable.
1:24:22 I know.
1:24:23 It was crazy.
1:24:24 It was absolutely nuts.
1:24:25 Well, I hope that doesn’t happen.
1:24:29 I hope AI saves us like you were mentioning, but we’ll see what happens.
1:24:31 So, Peter, this has been awesome.
1:24:33 I end my show with two questions that I ask all of my guests.
1:24:35 You can just answer from the heart.
1:24:37 It doesn’t have to be about anything that we talked about today.
1:24:43 So, what is one actionable thing that my young and profiters can do today to be more profitable tomorrow?
1:24:47 I think one thing they could do is start educating themselves.
1:24:50 You know, and they’re doing that now by listening to this program.
1:24:52 But, you know, I’ve got a lot of content online.
1:24:53 I have my own podcast.
1:24:55 I do one or two of them a week.
1:24:57 I put out a lot of stuff.
1:24:59 I put out a lot of interesting stuff just on X.
1:25:05 I mean, a lot of the news that people get from the conventional sources is inaccurate.
1:25:06 It’s more propaganda.
1:25:09 The news, there’s a lot of fake news out there.
1:25:14 And I think I do a pretty good job of distilling what’s actually going on and telling people the truth.
1:25:22 So, you know, they can make a point to, you know, start following me and listen to what I’m saying and get a better handle on what’s actually happening and having a better understanding.
1:25:25 And I think that probably could help in their business.
1:25:38 And apart from that, again, they can start investing the right way instead of just chasing what’s going up and hoping that it continues to really buy things of value that you can hold for the long run, knowing eventually you’re good.
1:25:43 What you’ve invested in will be worth more in the future because of the value that’s being created.
1:25:53 The business that’s growing, the income is growing, the dividends are growing, and people can do that themselves or they can hire my company to help them do that.
1:25:57 You know, my mutual funds, people can start buying my mutual funds, no load.
1:25:59 I think the minimums are maybe $2,500.
1:26:09 I forget it, you know, Schwab or Fidelity, but they could just go there and just all the information on those funds and the symbols, the ticker symbols for the funds they can find on my website.
1:26:12 In fact, you can actually buy the funds directly on the website.
1:26:17 If you don’t have a brokerage account, you could just buy them directly from EuropePAC.com.
1:26:18 Amazing.
1:26:22 And I’ll make sure I stick all your links in the show notes in terms of that.
1:26:24 You also have a really popular YouTube channel.
1:26:26 Like you mentioned, he’s on X, very active on X.
1:26:33 So my last question to you, and this can go beyond financial, what is your secret to profiting in life?
1:26:39 Well, as I said, I mentioned earlier, you know, you have to find something that you’re good at and something that you like.
1:26:46 And then I started my own brokerage firm years and years ago in the 1990s, and I built it up.
1:26:50 And, you know, for the first few years that I worked, I didn’t make any money.
1:26:53 I made less money than I worked when I had a job.
1:27:01 But the reason I even had the money to go a couple of years without any income is because when I had a job, I saved up some money.
1:27:08 I didn’t just spend everything I earned because if I did that, I wouldn’t have had the resources to be able to invest in my own business.
1:27:21 And so that’s important that people just not go out there and just buy whatever they can buy because they have the money or even worse, borrow money on a credit card to buy stuff they can’t afford.
1:27:30 People have to try to find a way to delay that instant gratification so that they have the resources to start a business.
1:27:37 But the rest of it, I mean, it’s good to marry right, you know, you know, have some kids and enjoy your life.
1:27:39 I mean, you got to have a mix.
1:27:43 And, you know, I have it now that I’m in my 60s.
1:27:49 I mean, I don’t spend nearly as much time working as I did when I was in my 30s and 40s.
1:27:52 So, you know, you got to stop and smell the roses.
1:27:54 But what I do do, I enjoy doing.
1:27:59 I think as I was younger, a lot of the stuff that I did wasn’t necessarily as enjoyable.
1:28:00 I had to do it.
1:28:02 It’s like the grunt work that you’ve got to do.
1:28:06 A lot of stuff that I used to do myself, I now pay other people to do.
1:28:11 I have the freedom now to just do the stuff that I like and pay other people to do the stuff that I don’t.
1:28:13 That’s the dream, Peter.
1:28:16 Well, thank you so much for joining us on Young and Profiting Podcast.
1:28:18 Where can everybody go find you, follow you?
1:28:21 Yeah, as I said, I’m on X, just Peter Schiff.
1:28:24 I’ve got almost 1.1 million followers now.
1:28:25 So it’s starting to grow.
1:28:27 I think that’s my biggest social media.
1:28:30 But I am on Facebook.
1:28:31 I’m on Instagram.
1:28:33 I’m on TikTok.
1:28:35 So, you know, you can find me, Peter Schiff, on all those.
1:28:39 My YouTube channel also, yeah, you know, that one I’ve got.
1:28:39 It’s growing.
1:28:42 It’s about 600,000 almost subscribers.
1:28:46 The podcast that I do, The Peter Schiff Show, I put it out on my YouTube channel.
1:28:48 But you can also listen to it at SchiffRadio.com.
1:28:53 It’s on iTunes and Spotify or Stitcher.
1:28:57 Wherever there’s podcasts, if you look for The Peter Schiff Show, it’s there.
1:28:59 When I do them, I do them live.
1:29:02 So you can listen to them or watch them on YouTube live.
1:29:05 So you can come and you can do it whenever you want.
1:29:05 I don’t like you.
1:29:06 Like, you’re interviewing.
1:29:07 You have guests.
1:29:08 I don’t do that.
1:29:12 I just kind of speak for an hour and then I, you know, that’s it.
1:29:14 I used to have guests.
1:29:19 I did a radio show for a couple of years, two hours a day.
1:29:23 And I’d have at least a half hour of a guest every time I did one.
1:29:24 I’d have, except for Fridays.
1:29:25 It was free form Fridays.
1:29:26 I just took calls.
1:29:29 But Monday through Thursday, I always had a guest.
1:29:31 You got enough to talk about yourself.
1:29:33 That was just me.
1:29:33 Yeah.
1:29:35 Now, but because now I only do it once or twice a week.
1:29:37 I don’t do it every day for two hours.
1:29:38 You know, I do it once.
1:29:40 So it’s hard to fill two hours every day.
1:29:45 So I needed, I needed guests to help me, but I talk about important stuff.
1:29:50 I talk about like, I’m going to do one tomorrow because we have a fed meeting tomorrow and pal
1:29:55 is going to give his press conference and he’s going to say a bunch of nonsense and the market
1:29:58 commentators are also going to repeat the nonsense.
1:30:03 And so then I’m going to do my podcast and tell the truth and about, you know, what should
1:30:04 have been said and what was said.
1:30:08 And, and so, yeah, so people, I don’t know when people are going to listen to this.
1:30:10 Maybe that one will, you know, the live one will be over.
1:30:13 But it’ll be up on, it’ll be up on the YouTube channel or the podcast.
1:30:16 So you can always go back and listen to the prior episodes.
1:30:18 You don’t have to just listen to the live one.
1:30:19 They’re all there.
1:30:19 I mean, I’ve been doing them.
1:30:25 In fact, I’m over a thousand now on my podcast because I think I just crossed a thousand episodes
1:30:26 like a month ago.
1:30:27 That’s a big deal.
1:30:27 Yeah.
1:30:29 Yeah.
1:30:31 Well, you’ve got a new subscriber and fan with me.
1:30:33 So I really enjoyed studying your work.
1:30:35 I really enjoyed this conversation.
1:30:38 I think my listeners probably like learned so much.
1:30:40 So you’ve got thousands of new fans.
1:30:45 So thank you so much, Peter, for coming on the show and for sharing your wisdom with us.
1:30:46 Yes, Hala.
1:30:51 I really appreciate the opportunity to talk to your audience and I wish you continued success
1:30:52 in building out this business.
1:30:59 And there you have it, folks.
1:31:04 Some great pointers from Peter Schiff about navigating today’s turbulent economic waters
1:31:05 and making smart investments.
1:31:11 Peter argues that by focusing on assets with intrinsic value, you’re better positioned to preserve
1:31:13 and grow your wealth in the long term.
1:31:17 While bright, shiny investments like crypto may be hot right now in some quarters, you need
1:31:20 to be wary of investments that don’t appear to create much value.
1:31:25 Don’t just invest in something because you think you can find a fool to buy it at a higher
1:31:26 price.
1:31:30 That may work for a while, but like Peter said, eventually, you’re going to run out of fools
1:31:32 and the whole thing will collapse.
1:31:36 Perhaps the best thing you can invest in as an entrepreneur, however, is yourself.
1:31:41 When I started my business in 2020, I took money out of the stock market and I put it in
1:31:42 my social agency.
1:31:45 I invested in hiring employees and building out my business.
1:31:49 I lived modestly and delayed my own personal gratification.
1:31:53 Now, sure, I may have made some money in the stock market over the past few years if I left
1:31:59 it in there, but I have so, so much more today because I invested in myself and my company.
1:32:04 I not only have a return on my investment, I have an asset that continues to grow even more
1:32:07 valuable and I’ve made millions of dollars in the process.
1:32:12 Remember, as Peter says, it’s not just about preserving your wealth, it’s about putting
1:32:16 yourself in a position to thrive regardless of what the future holds, whether that means
1:32:22 buying stocks, gold, or real estate, or maybe just investing in some spare batteries and toilet
1:32:22 paper.
1:32:25 Thanks for listening to this episode of Young and Profiting.
1:32:29 If you listened, learned, and profited from this conversation, then before you run out and
1:32:33 buy toilet paper, why not share this episode with somebody else who could benefit from it?
1:32:37 And if you did enjoy this show and you learned something, then drop us a five-star review
1:32:40 on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your podcasts.
1:32:43 I got to shout out the Yap production team for all their hard work.
1:32:49 As always, this is your host, Alataha, aka the Podcast Princess, signing off.

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0:01:57 What’s up, Yap fam? What if I told you everything you’ve been taught about sales is backwards? What if the
0:02:04 key to closing more deals was to stop trying to close and start giving instead? In this Yap Classic episode,
0:02:11 which first aired in 2022, I spoke with Bob Berg, host of the Go-Giver podcast about a radically
0:02:16 different approach to sales, one that’s not about pressure or persuasion, but about value, service,
0:02:22 and authenticity. In our conversation, he breaks down the five laws of stratospheric success,
0:02:27 the most common mistakes salespeople make, and how to build real trust and connection with every
0:02:32 prospect that you meet. Are you a Go-Giver when it comes to persuading and influencing others?
0:02:34 Stick around and find out.
0:02:41 Hey, Bob, welcome to Young and Profiting Podcast. So happy to have you here.
0:02:43 Hey, thank you, Holla. Great to be here.
0:02:48 Yeah, likewise. Before we get into all that good stuff and the meat and potatoes of the interview,
0:02:54 I do want to talk to you about your career path. Similar to me, you started in radio. So I started my
0:03:00 career at Hot 97 and then kind of evolved from there. So I’d love to hear about your broadcasting
0:03:04 background and how you ended up, you know, becoming such a popular writer.
0:03:12 Just began as a sportscaster for a local radio station where I grew up, got into TV. I was the
0:03:19 late night news guy for a very small ABC affiliate in the Midwestern United States. I wasn’t very good
0:03:23 at it, though. I was, yeah, I could read the news. Anyone can do that. But I certainly wasn’t a
0:03:30 journalist. And so it wasn’t long before I graduated into sales. And I stumbled and floundered for the first
0:03:36 few months because I had no formal sales training. And the company I was with apparently didn’t either.
0:03:42 So I was sort of left on my own. Fortunately, after a few months, I was in a bookstore and I saw there
0:03:47 were a couple of books on sales, which doesn’t seem like a big deal right now. But that was 40 years ago.
0:03:52 And sales books were just, they simply were not as prolific as they are now. So I didn’t even know
0:03:59 such a thing existed. So when I saw them, I picked them up, bought them, brought them home. And every night
0:04:04 I’d come home after work and I would study into the wee hours of the morning. And within a few weeks
0:04:10 of applying the information, my sales began to go through the roof. And it was really a great
0:04:14 experience for me. From there, I started to really get into the personal development aspect because I
0:04:21 quickly learned that sales was really about building yourself on the inside, right? And that that success
0:04:27 manifested outwardly, but it really was what you put into your mind and took into your heart. So I started
0:04:31 getting all the, you know, the classics of personal development from Dale Carnegie’s How to Win Friends
0:04:36 and Influence People to Think and Grow Rich to the Magic of Thinking Big and Psycho-Cybernetics and
0:04:42 As a Man Thinketh and Ogmandino’s books and all the great books. And I just, I became a, I guess,
0:04:48 an internal library. And, you know, so I really enjoyed it and eventually worked my way up to sales
0:04:53 manager of a company. And people began to ask me to show their sales team what was working for me and
0:04:56 eventually just morphed into a, into a speaking business.
0:05:01 I love the fact that you brought up that you’ve read so many books. I interviewed Stephen
0:05:07 Kotler pretty recently, and he told me that books have the best ROI on your time. And you can literally
0:05:15 time arbitrage with books because these authors are spending years of their lives researching and
0:05:20 pouring out their expertise that might’ve taken a decade to acquire. And then you get to read that book
0:05:22 in just a few hours and absorb all that information.
0:05:28 Exactly. And, you know, I think when you, and there were different types of books, there are the
0:05:33 books that really you’re just developing yourself personally and professionally. And then there are
0:05:39 the how-to books and, and they can provide in, in, in such as the ones I purchased and they were by
0:05:44 Zig Ziglar and Tom Hopkins, the two that I purchased when, the, when I first saw them, they were roadmaps for
0:05:50 me. They told me how to do what I needed to do. It was really, it was a methodology. It was a system.
0:05:59 And to this day, I personally define a system as the process of predictably achieving a goal based on a
0:06:06 logical and specific set of how-to principles. The key being predictability, right? If, if it’s been, if it’s
0:06:12 been documented that by doing A, you can get the desired results of B, then you know, all you need to do is A and
0:06:18 continue to do A and continue to do A and eventually you’ll get the desired results of B. So, yeah,
0:06:24 absolutely. And you think about how many years Mr. Hopkins and Mr. Ziglar spent learning their craft.
0:06:28 And then, as you said, they put it into book form and I got to read it within a few hours and,
0:06:34 and, and you apply the information. So, yeah, I think you really, you really hit it right on the head.
0:06:39 So, I know we don’t have that much time together. So, I do want to get into the bulk of the interview
0:06:47 and really understand what a go-giver is. So, go-giver is a very popular book series that you
0:06:51 wrote with your co-author and there’s four books in that series. I think it’s sales, leadership,
0:06:57 influence, and then the original. And let’s just understand what a go-giver is. I guess it’s
0:07:00 the difference and the difference between a go-getter and a go-giver.
0:07:07 Well, kind of. Let’s, let’s look at that. So, the basic premise of the go-giver is simply this,
0:07:12 that shifting your focus, and this is really where it all begins, shifting your focus from getting to
0:07:18 giving. Now, when we say giving in this context, we simply mean constantly and consistently providing
0:07:25 immense value to others, understanding that doing so is not only a more fulfilling way of conducting
0:07:31 business, it’s the most financially profitable way as well. And not for any way out there,
0:07:36 woo-woo type of magical, mystical reasons. It makes very logical, very rational sense.
0:07:43 When you’re that person, Hala, who can take your focus off yourself and place it on serving others,
0:07:49 on discovering what they need, what they want, what they desire, focusing on helping them solve
0:07:54 their challenge and problems, taking your focus off of yourself and making it about helping to bring
0:08:00 them closer to happiness. People feel good about you. People want to get to know you. They like you.
0:08:05 They trust you. They want to be part of your life, part of your business. They want to tell others about
0:08:11 you. Now, we would say in terms of go-giver and go-getter, it always depends upon how you define
0:08:17 terms, okay? So, what we like to say is we love go-getters because go-getters are people of action.
0:08:21 You know, you’re a go-getter as well as a go-giver. You’re a person of action, right?
0:08:26 You started in radio. You went into, you had your blog that you had. You led a whole group of teams.
0:08:31 As that died down, now you went into something. You’re a go-getter, but you’re always providing
0:08:37 value to others. You’re a go-giver. And so, we like people to be both go-getters, people of action,
0:08:43 and go-givers, people who are absolutely focused on providing immense value to others. We would say the
0:08:51 opposite of a go-giver is a go-taker. And that’s that person who feels almost entitled, if you will,
0:08:58 to take, take, take without having added value to the person, to the process, to the situation.
0:09:05 And they tend to be frustrated because they rarely have the kind of sustainable success
0:09:07 that they believe they have.
0:09:11 I love that. Go-takers. I think that’s really interesting. And I can’t wait to get into
0:09:17 manipulation later on. And I think that really ties nicely with manipulation as well. But before we get
0:09:22 into that, even though influence, persuasion, manipulation is literally my favorite topic
0:09:28 to talk about, let’s talk about your five laws for success that you talk about in go-giver.
0:09:30 What are those five laws at a high level?
0:09:36 Okay, so they’re the laws of value, compensation, influence, authenticity, and receptivity.
0:09:54 The law of value is all about making the experience so wonderful for the prospective customer and client and eventual customer and client that aside from just the intrinsic value of your product or service, it’s the excellence, it’s the consistency, it’s the empathy, it’s the attention, it’s the gratitude.
0:10:05 It’s everything you put into the entire experience that makes it so worthwhile for them that they feel as though they’re receiving much more in value than what they’re paying.
0:10:09 And they do, while you also make a very healthy profit.
0:10:20 In any free market-based exchange, there should always be two profits, the buyer profits and the seller profits, because each of them come away much better off afterwards than they were beforehand.
0:10:24 Let’s hold that thought and take a quick break with our sponsors.
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0:12:13 Hello, young improfiters.
0:12:16 Let’s talk about what drives a business’s success.
0:12:26 Sure, having a great product, a strong brand, and savvy marketing can set companies like Death Wish Coffee, Magic Spoon, or even a legacy brand like Heinz apart.
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0:15:19 So basically what you’re saying is we need to provide more value than just what we’re getting
0:15:21 paid for, if I understand correctly.
0:15:24 So how do you, like, give us some examples, some concrete examples.
0:15:27 How can you have an engagement with someone they’re paying you?
0:15:32 Give us examples of providing more than what they’re paying you for and going and providing
0:15:34 that extra value that they’ll remember you for.
0:15:35 Okay.
0:15:41 So let’s say you hire an accountant to do your taxes and she charges you, we’ll just name
0:15:42 a round figure, $1,000.
0:15:45 That’s her fee or her price, okay?
0:15:46 $1,000.
0:15:51 But what value does she give you in exchange that is so immense?
0:15:58 First, through her experience, her knowledge, her wisdom, her desire to find out about you
0:16:03 and what you’re looking to accomplish to get, she gets to know your business, okay?
0:16:07 She’s able to save you $5,000 in taxes.
0:16:10 She also saves you countless hours of time.
0:16:15 She also provides you and your family with the security and the peace of mind of knowing
0:16:17 what was done correctly, right?
0:16:26 So she’s just giving you well over $5,000 in value in exchange for a $1,000 payment of price.
0:16:27 So you feel great about it.
0:16:32 But she also made a very healthy profit because it’s worth her time.
0:16:42 It’s worth her while, okay, to sell or lease her time, her energy, her expertise, her caring,
0:16:43 you know what I’m saying?
0:16:43 Yeah, totally.
0:16:46 And so both of you come away much better off afterwards.
0:16:47 Awesome.
0:16:49 Okay, law of compensation.
0:16:55 Okay, so this says that your income is determined by how many people you serve as well as how well
0:16:55 you serve them.
0:17:01 So where law number one says give more in value than you take in payment, law number two tells
0:17:06 us that the more people whose lives you touch with the exceptional value you provide, the
0:17:08 more money with which you’ll be rewarded.
0:17:14 Nicole Martin, the CEO in that part of the story, told Joe, the protege, that law number
0:17:20 one, the law of value represents your potential income, but it’s law number two, the number of
0:17:24 lives you impact that represent your actual income.
0:17:29 So we could say exceptional value plus significant reach equals very high compensation.
0:17:30 Got it.
0:17:38 So my question for this law is really about referrals, because if we want to expand our sphere of people
0:17:43 that we help, I think the best way to do it is through referrals, and you are the guru when
0:17:45 it comes to getting referrals.
0:17:51 So tell us about some key strategies, and I know we’ve got to be a little bit quick, but like
0:17:53 what are your best strategies for getting referrals?
0:17:55 Well, it’s building the relationship.
0:18:00 You know, one of the things that I said, the premise of endless referrals and something
0:18:05 that was in the go-giver was that all things being equal, people will do business with and
0:18:09 refer business to those people they know, like, and trust.
0:18:14 So this is really where law number three of the go-giver comes into play, right?
0:18:15 The law of influence.
0:18:19 Your influence is determined by how abundantly you place other people’s interests first, which
0:18:23 isn’t to say in any way that you should be anyone’s doormat or a martyr or self-sacrifice.
0:18:28 It’s just that when you look at the all things being equal, the know, like, and trust, what
0:18:29 do we see?
0:18:36 That placing that other person’s interests first, okay, that is the way to develop that
0:18:39 know, like, and trust toward you in others.
0:18:43 And that’s how referrals will happen because you’re developing, you’re creating these great
0:18:44 relationships with people.
0:18:51 The way you begin doing it is from that very first conversation to make it not about you,
0:18:52 but about them.
0:18:58 It’s asking them questions about themselves and their business, not in a prospect-y type
0:19:00 of way, just in a way that creates a relationship.
0:19:05 It’s asking them how they got started in their business and what they enjoy most about it.
0:19:10 It’s asking that person what I call the one key question that will distinguish you from the
0:19:17 rest, which is how can I know if someone I’m speaking with is a good customer for you, which
0:19:23 totally reframes everything from being the typical, I’m out there trying to give my elevator speech
0:19:28 and sell you my product or service the first time I meet you, to I want to know how to help
0:19:28 you.
0:19:30 I want to know how to serve you.
0:19:33 I want to know how to bring value to you.
0:19:36 And it’s the same whether you’re in person or online.
0:19:38 You know, you’re really a LinkedIn expert.
0:19:42 You’re someone who’s so, you have such a huge audience on LinkedIn.
0:19:46 And how many times do you see when someone sends you a connection request, what’s the first
0:19:48 thing they do after you connect?
0:19:53 They send you a sales thing, right, to buy from them.
0:19:56 Well, are you going to create a relationship with that person?
0:19:57 Probably not.
0:20:04 But it’s probably the person who’s asking themselves the question, hmm, how do I add value to Hala’s
0:20:07 life, to her business?
0:20:10 How can I comment on one of her posts or one of her interviews?
0:20:14 You know, how can I share something that’s going to bring her value?
0:20:19 How can I get to know her in a way that she sees that my focus is on, right?
0:20:22 And that’s how we start the referral process.
0:20:28 Now, there’s certain questions we can ask once the know, like, and trust is there to create
0:20:31 the context where the person is probably going to give us great referrals.
0:20:34 But it always begins with the relationship.
0:20:38 I’m going to have to have you back on to just talk about referrals at some point.
0:20:40 We can do 30 minutes just on that.
0:20:41 I know, for real.
0:20:46 Okay, so let’s go on to, I think we got to law, we’re at the law of influence.
0:20:48 We kind of did law of influence.
0:20:50 We did that within that.
0:20:56 So we sort of snuck that in a little bit because it’s, again, it’s placing the other person’s
0:20:56 interest first.
0:21:01 Not in a self-sacrificial way, but in a way that benefits everyone concerned.
0:21:06 So I do want to dive a little deeper on this influence topic because I heard you saying
0:21:09 something on another interview, and I loved it.
0:21:14 And that’s the fact that when you’re a true person of influence, you’re not pushing, you’re
0:21:14 pulling.
0:21:17 Talk to us about that because I think that’s really powerful.
0:21:18 Sure.
0:21:23 So if we ask what influence is, because remember, you know, the word influence has been thrown
0:21:28 around so much now that people have lots of different definitions for it.
0:21:34 And so I think if we look at it first on a very basic level, influence can be defined simply
0:21:41 as the ability to move a person or persons to a desired action, usually within the context
0:21:43 of a specific goal, okay?
0:21:46 That’s the definition, but it’s not its essence.
0:21:51 Because the essence of influence, as you said, is pull as opposed to push, right?
0:21:54 How far can you push a rope?
0:21:59 Well, not very, well, at least not very fast or very effectively, which is why great influencers
0:22:00 don’t push.
0:22:02 They don’t push their will on others.
0:22:03 They don’t push their ideas on others.
0:22:05 They’re not pushy, right?
0:22:09 You never hear someone say, wow, that David or that Mary, she is so influential.
0:22:12 She has a lot of push with people.
0:22:15 No, Mary’s influential.
0:22:18 She has a lot of pull with people.
0:22:22 So how does that pull manifest itself?
0:22:25 Well, again, this, and this is that law of influence.
0:22:28 It goes back to placing the other person’s interest first.
0:22:34 The genuine influencer asks themselves questions to make sure they’re facing the right way.
0:22:41 See, I believe that we need to be internally motivated, but outwardly focused.
0:22:45 Because remember, people don’t do things for our reasons.
0:22:46 They do it for their reasons.
0:22:51 I often, when I speak at sales conferences, I’ll often say, nobody’s going to buy from you
0:22:53 because you have a quota to meet.
0:22:54 Right.
0:22:57 They’re not going to buy from you because you need the money or even because you’re a really
0:22:58 nice person.
0:23:02 They’re going to buy from you because they believe they’ll be better off by doing so
0:23:06 than by not doing so, which is the only reason we could ever expect or should ever expect anyone
0:23:08 to buy from us.
0:23:16 So the genuine influencer asks questions of themselves to make sure they’re outwardly focused.
0:23:22 For example, how does what I’m asking this person to do, how does it align with their goals,
0:23:27 with their needs, with their wants, with their desires?
0:23:34 How does what I want this other person to do, how does it align with their values?
0:23:37 What problems am I helping them to solve?
0:23:42 How am I helping them to get to a direction or get to a place where they want to be?
0:23:50 Now, when we ask ourselves these questions thoughtfully, intelligently, genuinely, authentically,
0:23:57 not as a way to manipulate another human being into doing our will, but as a way of building
0:24:03 everyone in the process, now we’ve come a lot closer to earning that person’s commitment,
0:24:08 right, as opposed to trying to depend on some type of compliance or push.
0:24:13 The other thing I really want to cover for my listeners is the difference between influence,
0:24:18 persuasion, and manipulation, because I think they’re all slightly different,
0:24:22 and I think it will help us understand, you know, where on the spectrum we want to be.
0:24:23 Sure.
0:24:29 So, if influence is a matter of being able to move a person to a desired action, okay,
0:24:31 there are two ways to influence.
0:24:38 You could do it through persuading another human being, or you could do it through manipulating
0:24:39 another human being.
0:24:42 One’s positive, one’s negative, right?
0:24:50 Now, the interesting thing is both persuaders and manipulators understand human nature.
0:24:52 They understand what motivates people.
0:24:56 They understand how to move people to action.
0:25:00 In a sense, you could say persuasion and manipulation are cousins.
0:25:05 Now, one’s the good cousin, persuasion, and one’s the evil cousin, manipulation.
0:25:11 If we want to describe manipulation, I think the person who described it best was a guy by
0:25:16 the name of Paul W. Sweats, who wrote a book published in 1987 called The Art of Talking
0:25:20 So That People Will Listen, which was really more about listening than it was about talking,
0:25:21 but that was the title.
0:25:22 It was a wonderful book.
0:25:28 And in it, he said, manipulation aims at control, not cooperation.
0:25:36 It does not consider the good of the other party, and it results in a win-lose situation.
0:25:43 Now, in direct contrast to the manipulator, the persuader always seeks to enhance the self-esteem,
0:25:46 or I would say the position, of the other party.
0:25:54 People respond better because they’re treated as responsible, response-able, self-directing
0:25:55 individuals.
0:26:00 So it begins really with intent, though that’s not where it ends.
0:26:01 But here’s the thing.
0:26:06 See, a manipulator may not be trying to necessarily hurt the other person.
0:26:11 But if that’s what it takes to get their way, they’ll do so because it’s all about them and
0:26:12 their needs.
0:26:18 With a persuader, that can never happen because for a persuader to be happy with the situation
0:26:24 and with themselves, they have to know that not only has the other person benefited, but
0:26:27 that the other person feels good about the situation.
0:26:32 We’ll be right back after a quick break from our sponsors.
0:26:34 Hey, AppFam.
0:26:37 You know running a business means you’re juggling a million things.
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0:28:25 You know, the other day I was served an ad for a revolutionary dog grooming kit.
0:28:27 I don’t have a dog.
0:28:28 I don’t groom dogs.
0:28:32 And I’m not even sure what a revolutionary dog grooming looks like.
0:28:37 But that ad reminded me of something, that one of the hardest parts about B2B marketing
0:28:39 is reaching the right audience.
0:28:43 It doesn’t matter how clever your message is or how great your product is.
0:28:47 If it’s not landing with the people who actually need it, it’s just noise.
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0:29:48 Hey, young Improfters.
0:29:51 I know so many of you are in your grind season.
0:29:55 You’re working that nine to five and then you’re five to midnight building that dream.
0:29:57 That’s how I started Yap Media.
0:29:59 So keep going and hustling.
0:30:04 But I do want to give you some advice because if you’re a side hustler, I know personally how
0:30:07 hard it can be to find the right tools for your team without breaking the bank.
0:30:12 All those tools can get really expensive, but you need to collaborate with your team.
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0:30:38 I wish that I had Microsoft Teams Free back when I was first starting Yap.
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0:31:40 Okay.
0:31:47 So my last question on influence is really about the fact that people love to be the ones making
0:31:50 their own decisions, and they want to make their own decisions.
0:31:53 So tell us about the law of the back door.
0:31:54 I thought this was really interesting.
0:31:56 Well, thank you.
0:32:01 Yes, autonomy is a key aspect of human nature.
0:32:06 People want to feel they’re in control of their own lives, okay?
0:32:14 An out or a back door is an emotional escape hatch you give someone so that they never feel
0:32:17 as though they’re back into a corner, okay?
0:32:23 So Berg’s law of the out or back door simply says the bigger the out or back door you give
0:32:28 someone to take, the less they’ll feel the need to take it.
0:32:32 So you don’t necessarily give them that out so that they’ll take it, although if they
0:32:34 think they should, they will, which that would make sense.
0:32:41 But no, you do it so that they feel comfortable enough with you and the situation that they
0:32:44 don’t feel pressured and they don’t feel the need to take that out or back door.
0:32:51 So even saying something, let’s say you have a prospect, a sales prospect, and you’re in front
0:32:56 of that person and they kind of come to the table kind of defensive and it’s, well, you
0:32:59 know, don’t think I’m going to buy anything necessarily from you.
0:33:02 I, I, you know, I’m not some easy sell out that.
0:33:02 Why did they fit?
0:33:04 But who knows what their experience has been?
0:33:06 We never know what someone’s experience is.
0:33:11 Maybe that somebody took advantage of them and, or maybe they really are someone who doesn’t
0:33:13 trust themselves to make the set.
0:33:14 I don’t know.
0:33:18 But what we can do is reframe this using the out or back door.
0:33:23 So it might be something like, you know, Susan, while we’ve been fortunate to be able to
0:33:27 help a lot of people with this product, whether or not it’s the right fit for you.
0:33:32 We simply can’t know without exploring deeper and both of us discovering that.
0:33:37 So please know that, that this conversation is for both of us to determine whether this
0:33:38 would be right for you.
0:33:41 And if it is great, if not, that’s okay too.
0:33:44 And I bet you, you could even do that in a simpler manner.
0:33:48 Like if you just want to hop on a call with someone, you could be like, Hey, you’re probably
0:33:53 slammed this Friday, but if you have time, would you be able to hop on a call?
0:33:54 Like, does it work in, yeah.
0:33:57 It even works in simple situations like that.
0:33:58 Very, very much.
0:33:59 Okay.
0:34:02 So I know we have two more laws that we didn’t cover.
0:34:06 And so I just want to make sure my listeners understand them at least at a high level.
0:34:09 So I believe it’s the law of, yep, go ahead.
0:34:13 Most valuable gift you have to offer is yourself.
0:34:18 And in this law, Deborah, who was the mentor in this part of the story, explained that all
0:34:23 the skills in the world, the sales skills, technical skills, people skills, as important as they
0:34:25 are, and they are all very important.
0:34:30 They’re also all for naught if you don’t come at it from your true authentic core.
0:34:37 But when you do, when you show up as yourself, day after day, week after week, month after
0:34:39 month, people feel good about you.
0:34:40 People feel comfortable with you.
0:34:42 They feel safe with you.
0:34:43 And why not?
0:34:45 They know who it is they’re getting.
0:34:50 So authenticity is a very powerful part of building trust.
0:34:54 Now, I think, you know, today, authenticity, just like influence, it’s a word that gets bandied
0:34:55 about so much.
0:34:58 I think people kind of confuse aspects of it.
0:35:04 I think, you know, a lot of people, I believe, think authenticity means you have no boundaries.
0:35:05 Say whatever you want.
0:35:06 Do whatever you want.
0:35:07 This is how I am.
0:35:08 Take it or leave it.
0:35:13 Which, by the way, good philosophy if you want no happy relationships and you don’t feel like
0:35:15 being successful in business.
0:35:16 Then it’s a good philosophy.
0:35:17 But otherwise, no, it’s really not.
0:35:20 Authenticity does not mean you have no boundaries.
0:35:25 Authenticity simply means you act congruently with your values, okay?
0:35:31 It should never be used as an excuse for staying where you are.
0:35:35 It’s like the person who says, well, I have anger issues and I yell at people a lot and
0:35:36 I yell at people a lot.
0:35:39 And if I were to act any differently, that wouldn’t be authentic of me.
0:35:40 That’s baloney.
0:35:41 That’s hogwash.
0:35:46 It simply means that person has an authentic problem that that person needs to authentically
0:35:54 work on in order to become a better, more effective, higher version of their authentic selves.
0:35:56 Got it.
0:35:58 And so thank you so much for explaining that.
0:35:59 And then your last law.
0:36:07 Yeah, the law of receptivity says the key to effective giving is to stay open to receiving.
0:36:13 This means nothing more than understanding that, yeah, you breathe out, you also have to breathe in.
0:36:15 It’s not one or the other.
0:36:16 It’s both.
0:36:18 Breathe out carbon dioxide.
0:36:19 You breathe in oxygen.
0:36:21 You breathe out, which is giving.
0:36:23 You breathe in, which is receiving.
0:36:30 Giving and receiving, despite the many anti-prosperity messages we receive from the world around us,
0:36:35 which is really a shame, despite that, giving and receiving are not opposite concepts.
0:36:40 They’re simply two sides of the very same coin and they work in tandem.
0:36:48 The key is that you focus on the giving and you allow the receiving, which is why John David Mann and I say
0:36:51 that money is simply an echo of value.
0:36:58 So you focus on the giving and when you do this and you create such wonderful value for others,
0:37:08 you’ve created that benevolent context for success and then you allow yourself to receive as a natural result of the value you’ve given.
0:37:10 I think that’s a really important point.
0:37:16 A lot of people kind of block themselves off from receiving all the good that they put out for themselves.
0:37:17 So I totally agree there.
0:37:22 So the last question that I ask all my guests is what is your secret to profiting in life?
0:37:27 I think it goes back to a definition, as you can tell.
0:37:29 So many things go back to definitions, right?
0:37:34 And I think it’s when we, you know, we talked about authenticity, acting congruently with your values.
0:37:36 I think happiness, which is really what it’s all about.
0:37:38 When you think about it, the end of our life, what is it?
0:37:40 It’s how happy we were, right?
0:37:50 I would define, I personally define happiness as an ongoing and genuine feeling of joy and peace of mind,
0:37:54 the result of living congruently with one’s values.
0:38:03 So I think that with everything we do, if we’re able to check on this, is what I’m about to do congruent with my values,
0:38:11 congruent with the person who I believe I am and or want to become, then I think we create that context for happiness.
0:38:14 Which doesn’t mean life is, you know, rainbows and unicorns either.
0:38:16 Life is life, okay?
0:38:19 But it means that we have that ongoing sense of happiness.
0:38:21 Makes sense.
0:38:22 Thank you so much, Bob.
0:38:24 This was such a wonderful conversation.
0:38:28 Where can our listeners go to learn everything about you and what you do?
0:38:33 Best place is Berg, B-U-R-G.com.
0:38:34 Awesome.
0:38:35 Thank you so much.
0:38:36 My pleasure.
0:38:36 Thank you.

0:00:02 Today’s episode is sponsored in part by Airbnb,
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0:01:41 Sales isn’t a chase.
0:01:43 Sales isn’t a chase.
0:01:43 It’s a dance.
0:01:47 And when you chase somebody, they’re going to run away.
0:01:51 I like to say you have to be a complete, literal psychopath in sales.
0:01:55 You’re going to go call, call, call, door, door, door of no, no, no, no.
0:01:58 But you have to go into every single encounter thinking,
0:02:00 this is the person that’s going to buy from me.
0:02:01 And I got some stats.
0:02:06 Female reps are 11% more likely to win deals than men.
0:02:09 So talk to us about why women are so good at selling.
0:02:15 So this is what I’ve found is people believe 0% of the words
0:02:16 that come out of a salesperson’s mouth because,
0:02:18 duh, you’re a sales rep.
0:02:21 But they believe 100% of the words that come out of their own mouth.
0:02:24 So a lot of my job is asking the right questions
0:02:27 and getting them to say the words that they can’t go back on later.
0:02:30 So on Instagram, what do you feel like goes most viral?
0:02:31 There’s like two buckets.
0:02:32 One bucket is…
0:02:50 Yeah, fam, we get a lot of big names on the show
0:02:53 from Gary Vaynerchuk to Mel Robbins to Adam Grant.
0:02:56 And it turns out, even though this is Young and Profiting Podcast,
0:02:59 most of the people that I interview aren’t young at all.
0:03:01 And if you guys listen to the show, you know that.
0:03:05 But from time to time, I do like to keep my eyes open
0:03:07 for rising young stars that we could learn from.
0:03:09 This is all about actionable advice,
0:03:11 real advice that we can use in entrepreneurship.
0:03:15 And sometimes there’s a young person out there
0:03:16 that just really knows their stuff.
0:03:19 And even if they’re at the start of their entrepreneurial careers,
0:03:22 they understand a certain topic
0:03:24 and they understand how to teach that topic.
0:03:28 And that’s why I’m so happy to welcome Shelby Sapp to the show.
0:03:30 She’s 23 years old.
0:03:32 She’s taken the sales community by storm.
0:03:34 She’s a sales expert.
0:03:37 She’s completely dominated the female sales training space.
0:03:41 And she’s the founder and CEO of the She Sells Academy.
0:03:45 Her approach to sales training has garnered her hundreds of thousands of followers
0:03:46 on Instagram and TikTok.
0:03:49 In this episode, we’re really going to focus on two things.
0:03:50 Her sales strategies.
0:03:53 We’re going to talk about objections, mindset,
0:03:54 how to be a sales psychopath,
0:03:57 how to hot girl and hot guy sell.
0:04:01 We’re also going to talk about how to build an online community and sell to them.
0:04:05 If you guys want a masterclass in hot girl, hot guy sales training,
0:04:07 you guys are in for a treat today.
0:04:09 Without further delay, here’s Shelby.
0:04:12 Shelby, welcome to Young and Profiting Podcast.
0:04:14 Thank you for having me.
0:04:18 I’m so excited to talk to you today because I love sales.
0:04:21 I feel like I’m a natural salesperson.
0:04:23 Everything I do at my company right now,
0:04:24 the main focus is sales.
0:04:27 I’ve been selling since I was 10 years old, I would say.
0:04:31 But many people think that sales are scary.
0:04:33 And Jeremy Miner came on my show.
0:04:35 I know you talked to him recently.
0:04:40 And he says that nobody is born a salesperson and you’ve got to work at it.
0:04:42 So that’s my first question to you.
0:04:45 What kind of person do you think is cut out for sales?
0:04:47 Do you think everybody is cut out for sales?
0:04:51 You would never guess who’s going to be good at sales is what I’ve learned.
0:04:58 And that’s coming from my sales trainer background from different industries is I would put money
0:05:03 on like this guy that would come out and do door to door, top of the football team,
0:05:06 super extravagant, extroverted guy.
0:05:07 I’m like, you’re going to do so good.
0:05:09 He doesn’t at all.
0:05:15 But then like the shy person that just studies, knows the scripts, works hard, doesn’t sit down.
0:05:17 That person completely outsells the other one.
0:05:18 So you really just never know.
0:05:24 But I think the main trait of like what makes somebody good is intrinsic motivation.
0:05:29 And I think at the end of the day, no matter your personality type, shy, extroverted, outgoing,
0:05:34 if you know that you are so motivated that nothing else is going to stop you,
0:05:35 that’s what’s going to make you good.
0:05:39 Because at the end of the day, you can teach anybody sales, right?
0:05:41 But it’s like the work ethic.
0:05:47 And when you’re so down, going for that extra call, rolling that extra objection, you can’t really
0:05:48 teach somebody that.
0:05:55 So I always look for that in the girls that are in my academy and really try to instill the intrinsic
0:05:55 motivation in them.
0:06:02 And speaking of like mindset, motivation, what kind of limiting beliefs do you feel like people
0:06:06 usually have that’s holding them back from actually being good at selling?
0:06:09 I would say that people are scary.
0:06:11 People are not scary at all.
0:06:13 Especially I teach a lot of women.
0:06:17 The men, they’re like so scared to sell these alpha males.
0:06:20 And it’s like those guys are more than often the teddy bears.
0:06:25 And they kind of respect when you are a little bit pushy with them.
0:06:27 Like, they’re like, okay, like I respect this girl.
0:06:28 I respect the hustle.
0:06:34 So just kind of knowing that other people aren’t as scary as they seem, and they have
0:06:35 no idea what you’re saying.
0:06:41 So you can just have fun with it, bring back the human connection to sales rather than just
0:06:42 like selling with a script.
0:06:49 So you’re like blowing up on social media, you’re doing really well on Instagram and TikTok.
0:06:55 And I saw one of your videos and you were talking about how you need to be a sales psychopath.
0:06:57 Oh, yes, you do.
0:06:59 Talk to me about that.
0:07:04 I like to say you have to be a complete literal psychopath in sales, because a lot of people
0:07:08 think, you know, sales is super cool, the shiny thing, you can make a lot of money.
0:07:11 It’s like, yes, but you don’t get paid to show up.
0:07:13 You get paid to go the extra mile.
0:07:18 And sales is something to where it’s a direct reflection of your work ethic.
0:07:24 So if you really want to make it worth it, and to be that top 1% cream of the crop, you
0:07:30 have to be a little bit of a psycho, not only in your work ethic, but also in your ability
0:07:35 to just know how to regulate your emotions throughout the day.
0:07:40 Like, for example, you’re going to go call, call, call, door, door, door of no, no, no, no.
0:07:44 But you have to go into every single encounter thinking, this is the sale.
0:07:46 This is the person that’s going to buy from me.
0:07:49 When maybe the last 10 people told you to yourself.
0:07:53 So to me, that’s so psychotic, because that’s not normal.
0:07:55 That’s not normal human behavior.
0:08:01 You have to trick yourself into being this psychopathic mentality in order to really reap,
0:08:07 in my opinion, the true benefits of sales, because that really does come from the top of
0:08:08 the top, the best of the best.
0:08:13 It’s so true, because like, nobody really knows like what your track record is.
0:08:16 Nobody knows how many sales you made before that day.
0:08:18 The customer knows nothing about you.
0:08:19 They don’t know your ranking.
0:08:20 They don’t know anything about you.
0:08:26 So you can come there with good energy and just have the confidence and know your stuff.
0:08:29 And they have no idea how well you’ve done in the past.
0:08:29 Exactly.
0:08:32 And it sounds so simple, but it’s really not.
0:08:37 Because having that conviction in your voice and that sure tone and that confidence, that energy
0:08:44 and the aura, when you just got demolished by every single person before is so hard.
0:08:47 But like you said, they really have no clue.
0:08:53 So you almost have to like brainwash yourself into being like, this is the client that’s going
0:08:53 to buy.
0:08:57 And that one client that buys, that commission is going to make up for all of the no’s that
0:08:58 you had that day.
0:09:03 So all it takes is the one you can’t let the other people get to your one.
0:09:08 I feel like before I get on any big sales calls, I literally am telling myself like,
0:09:10 Hala, you’re the number one person at this.
0:09:12 You’ve crushed so and so.
0:09:14 Like I always like give myself like a little pep talk.
0:09:15 Like, listen, you’ve got this.
0:09:18 You’re the best expert at this.
0:09:24 And when I don’t come with that kind of energy, like if I’m having a bad day, or just like
0:09:28 tired or sick, I feel like totally go the other way.
0:09:31 I always say your energy is your currency.
0:09:34 And being sad will literally make you poor.
0:09:36 No matter what you do, especially in sales, though.
0:09:38 And that’s not saying you can’t be sad.
0:09:40 We’re all sad sometimes.
0:09:43 But you do have to almost just fake it sometimes.
0:09:47 And that’s the psycho is I like, it doesn’t matter.
0:09:51 Sales does not matter what’s going on in your life, what emotions you’re going through.
0:09:55 If you’re having a bad day, if you’re down, if your boyfriend broke up with you, like the
0:09:56 client has no idea.
0:09:57 They don’t care.
0:09:58 So it’s like, do you want to make money or not?
0:10:00 You can either turn it on or off.
0:10:04 So I know that you spent a lot of your time focused on selling to women.
0:10:09 And there’s been a lot of recent reporting saying that women are betting better at selling
0:10:09 than men.
0:10:14 And you’ve really built your whole brand around female sales reps.
0:10:15 And I got some stats.
0:10:19 Female reps are 11% more likely to win deals than men.
0:10:23 So talk to us about why women are so good at selling.
0:10:29 So this is what I’ve found is one, women get a little bit underestimated when they hop onto
0:10:30 a sales call.
0:10:32 And this can be either a really good or a really bad thing.
0:10:36 Because if you don’t know how to run the call, if you don’t know how to establish your
0:10:40 authority, your credibility, your respect, then you’re just going to get walked all over.
0:10:44 And then that’s why some women think, oh, well, I’m just, I’m just not good because they
0:10:45 don’t respect me.
0:10:47 It’s like you didn’t demand the respect.
0:10:51 So that’s kind of like the way it could go negatively.
0:10:54 Especially if you don’t know how to use your advantages to your advantage.
0:10:59 But the best way is you get a little bit underestimated in the beginning, but then you kind of like
0:11:03 take charge and put your foot down almost in the sale.
0:11:05 That way they’re like, oh, this girl knows her stuff.
0:11:06 Like I respect that.
0:11:08 So then it kind of almost becomes a positive.
0:11:14 And that’s what I train my girls on is how to use like, yes, we’re going to have a little
0:11:16 bit of a stereotype, no matter who you’re talking to.
0:11:19 Older women might look down on you.
0:11:20 Younger women might look up to you.
0:11:23 Older men might be like, oh, she has no idea what she’s talking about.
0:11:29 So using those different stereotypes as a way to actually be a plus side in sales.
0:11:37 Also, men, I’ve trained a lot of men, specifically more in door-to-door, they have that credibility.
0:11:40 Like as soon as they hop on a call, they have that authority.
0:11:41 They have a little bit more respect.
0:11:48 And so for them, it’s more about building the softer side throughout the sales process versus
0:11:48 girls.
0:11:53 I teach them to do a little bit of the opposite because people already want to open up to you.
0:11:54 That makes sense.
0:11:59 So it’s like women already have natural empathy and the men, you actually teach them how to
0:12:03 have better empathy so that they can be more like women in the sales process.
0:12:08 So it’s kind of like a blend of the soft side, but also like maintaining that respect and
0:12:14 credibility because that’s what sales is, is it’s perfectly teetering the line between let’s
0:12:15 get the deal done.
0:12:16 This is what makes sense.
0:12:20 Like the business side, the logical side of your brain, but then the other side of your
0:12:22 brain is emotions.
0:12:28 And I always tell my students that I teach, you can’t sell with logic because then a buyer
0:12:29 is going to make a logical decision.
0:12:34 They’re going to take your logical pitch and they’re going to make a logical decision, which
0:12:35 is, this sounds great.
0:12:37 Send it over and we’ll talk about it later.
0:12:39 That’s the logical thing to do, right?
0:12:43 Is not to spend thousands of dollars on a 30 minute call.
0:12:48 But what creates that buying atmosphere is using the logical side, but also pulling that
0:12:50 emotion in order to create the buying atmosphere.
0:12:52 So both sides.
0:12:53 I love that.
0:12:56 I’m going to get into the emotion part of it later with you.
0:13:00 But first I want to stick on this like hot girl concept, right?
0:13:05 So like you call your sales girls, hot girls, you yourself, very beautiful, blonde, skinny,
0:13:06 young.
0:13:10 So do you think that looks has anything to do with your success in sales?
0:13:17 I think it would be stupid to say that like looks have nothing to do with it, but I think
0:13:20 that it can go, like I said, a good way or a negative way.
0:13:26 I think you can be taken not as seriously if you’re a pretty girl and you don’t know your
0:13:26 stuff.
0:13:29 People just assume like, oh, she’s just another pretty face.
0:13:31 Like I’m not going to trust her with my business.
0:13:35 Because what I found, especially with a lot of the girls that I would train, oh my gosh,
0:13:41 back in my door to door days, I would recruit all of my best friends from my sororities, all
0:13:42 pretty girls.
0:13:45 They would, some of them did terrible.
0:13:50 And it’s because like pretty girls haven’t had a lot of rejection before.
0:13:52 So it’s like people would waste their time.
0:13:55 And if you don’t know how to do it right, it’s kind of a negative.
0:13:58 So the looks things, I think everybody has advantages and disadvantages.
0:14:00 You just have to know what to use.
0:14:06 But the hot girl mentality that I always talk about in my content has nothing to do with looks.
0:14:09 It also has nothing to do with being a girl.
0:14:11 There’s so many guys that I’m like, you are a hot girl.
0:14:17 What it is, is this, I tell people that I want them to imagine like the hottest girl
0:14:19 they know walks into a room.
0:14:20 How does she walk in?
0:14:23 Is she hunched over looking at her phone?
0:14:25 Kind of like, oh my gosh, who should I talk to?
0:14:27 Should I go stand in the corner?
0:14:29 Or is she the girl that walks in?
0:14:31 Her energy is just so infectious.
0:14:35 And other people are like, oh, I want to figure out what she’s about.
0:14:36 I want to go ask her questions.
0:14:42 So it’s more about the aura and the energy that you have that you carry into every single
0:14:42 conversation.
0:14:47 So do you ever get people telling you like, you know, what do you know?
0:14:48 You’re 23 years old.
0:14:49 Why are you teaching sales?
0:14:52 All the time.
0:14:59 And it’s so funny because I like to say I’ve lived 30 years in the last probably four years.
0:15:03 So I feel like I’m like 60 years old, but I do get that.
0:15:06 And what I like to say is I don’t have kids.
0:15:07 I don’t have like, this is my thing.
0:15:11 This is every single piece of my energy goes into this.
0:15:19 And I also bring a different layer of I know what works to sales training and sales changes
0:15:23 every single day, especially with online, how people perceive things.
0:15:29 A lot of the sales techniques that a lot of the older sales trainers use, when I was
0:15:33 like a sales rep, I would listen to that, try it and get the door slammed in my face.
0:15:38 So it’s like there’s a lot of little things that you just have to know, like realistically,
0:15:39 would that work or not?
0:15:43 And I think that’s kind of where a lot of my content, people see it and they’re like, oh,
0:15:44 that would actually work.
0:15:45 Yeah.
0:15:46 And you have a track record.
0:15:48 You’ve done great in sales.
0:15:49 And here’s the thing.
0:15:49 You’re a good teacher.
0:15:55 So when I hear feedback about or if I’ve seen stuff when people are like kind of hating
0:15:57 on you, I’m like, she’s saying I’m a salesperson.
0:16:02 She’s talking the right stuff and she’s doing a good job teaching and like she’s she’s able
0:16:03 to teach it.
0:16:04 And I think that’s really the difference.
0:16:05 Right.
0:16:06 So kudos to you.
0:16:08 I’m really proud of everything that you’ve done.
0:16:09 And I think you’re awesome.
0:16:10 Thank you.
0:16:14 I remember I was talking to somebody and I couldn’t for the life of me remember who the person
0:16:15 was.
0:16:19 So if you guys are tuning in and you remember this conversation on the podcast, let me know.
0:16:22 But I remember I was telling a story on this podcast and I was talking to somebody super
0:16:27 credible and I was telling them how when I worked at Disney and corporate, everybody’s
0:16:29 I look much younger than I am.
0:16:32 And so everybody used to think I was like 10 years younger than I was.
0:16:36 And I was treated like an intern, even though I had all this experience.
0:16:38 And I ended up leaving corporate to be an entrepreneur.
0:16:43 One of the reasons why is because I look too young to be taken seriously.
0:16:49 And the guy told me that in business, the age you want to look like is 35.
0:16:51 I agree.
0:16:53 Whether you’re older or younger.
0:16:55 And to me, like, I always like remember that.
0:16:58 I was like, OK, I just need to look like 30, 35 forever.
0:17:04 That is so funny because I always tell my friends, I’m like, I feel like girls want to look younger.
0:17:11 I make myself try to look older, you know, like I put my hair up, glasses on, red nails.
0:17:16 Like I’m trying to make myself look a little bit more older because you’re so right.
0:17:24 I feel like that’s like the perfect age for respect, but also still being like somebody that people really are like, oh, my gosh, like I really want to talk to her.
0:17:29 Exactly. You’ve got experience, but you’re still young enough to be like hungry and tech savvy.
0:17:32 And so like 35 is the age that you want to emulate.
0:17:33 And I like never forgot that.
0:17:43 So when it comes to sales, I personally feel like my femininity, wearing makeup, dressing nice, grooming helps me close deals.
0:17:53 When I was saying before, like, if I’m ever like sick, tired, or like don’t have time to do my makeup or hair and I get on a sales call, I’m like 50% chance this is not going to close because like I don’t feel my best.
0:17:54 I don’t look my best.
0:17:56 Maybe the lighting is bad.
0:17:58 I’m like in a hotel or something.
0:18:03 And so I wanted to get your thoughts on that, like grooming men and women.
0:18:04 What do you think matters?
0:18:07 100%.
0:18:11 So the majority of the sales that I teach are like face to face.
0:18:13 So like you can see the other person.
0:18:20 And I straight up tell, well, I told my girls or my guys when I was doing door to door and I tell my girls now, you need to look good.
0:18:22 Like looks do matter in a sales process.
0:18:28 They make people want to talk to you, hear you out a little bit more, but also like yourself.
0:18:32 When you look and feel your best self, you’re going to be more open with people.
0:18:34 You’re going to have just a better energy.
0:18:41 And that kind of comes back to the hot girl mentality of I am that girl.
0:18:43 And when I show up, I’m going to look my best.
0:18:45 I’m going to feel my best and I’m going to act my best.
0:18:49 Cody Sanchez has been on the show a couple of times.
0:18:54 And she told me that women who wear makeup make 30% more on average.
0:18:57 Men who have better grooming make 15% more.
0:18:59 So it’s worth it.
0:19:00 And it’s not about your looks.
0:19:03 It’s not about like how actually like symmetrical your face is.
0:19:11 It’s really about the grooming, a good haircut, nice clothes, white teeth, like all that kind of stuff really matters.
0:19:11 Okay.
0:19:14 So let’s get into some more tactical stuff.
0:19:16 I want to stick on the gender topic a bit.
0:19:22 Talk to me about how a woman should sell to a man versus a man sell to a woman.
0:19:24 And I’ll give you some other scenarios.
0:19:30 The biggest difference is a woman really needs to establish frame super early on or else she’ll lose it.
0:19:40 And so what that basically means is you need to establish your credibility as somebody that knows her stuff, knows exactly why they’re on the call, isn’t getting on the call and saying,
0:19:42 Oh, where are you based out of?
0:19:43 Oh, my gosh, I love your outfit.
0:19:44 Oh, where is it from?
0:19:52 It’s like, no, just get to the actual point of the call first, or else the rapport can actually have a negative effect on you.
0:19:56 I like to teach my girls to really establish that credibility early on into the pitch.
0:20:01 And then you open up the rapport for the question-based selling.
0:20:07 And for women, this is the biggest part to let the other person talk a little bit more.
0:20:16 So asking really good questions in order to get somebody to open up and then also being super simple when it comes to closing.
0:20:27 A lot of women try to talk a lot when it comes to the close and almost like justify why the prices are there when somebody didn’t even ask.
0:20:30 You know, they could have been able to 100% afford it.
0:20:31 And they’re like, yo, so this is the price.
0:20:34 You know, it’s because there’s a lot that goes into it and blah, blah, blah.
0:20:36 It’s like, no, this is the price.
0:20:36 Shut up.
0:20:38 I always say, kiss them.
0:20:39 Keep it simple, stupid.
0:20:40 Just shut up.
0:20:46 So that’s more for the women is really leading with that respect, getting them to open up to you and then ending with the respect.
0:20:47 It’s like a little sandwich.
0:20:56 For the men, I like to have men be a little bit more warm in the beginning and then leading with the credibility and then a little bit more warm at the end.
0:21:06 So it’s almost a flip-flop just because I think, especially if they’re selling to another woman, if there’s a man on the other side of the screen, they’re almost like, oh, sales rep.
0:21:11 So they have the stigma of like, oh, this is just another sales bro, sales guy.
0:21:17 So when they kind of drop that boundary and they’re a little bit more human in the beginning, it’s a plus side for the men.
0:21:20 And how about a woman selling to a woman?
0:21:21 Okay.
0:21:23 So woman selling to a woman.
0:21:29 A lot of the girls that I trained in the beginning, they’re like, oh, girl, like they try to go the bestie route too soon.
0:21:31 And it comes off a little fake.
0:21:34 And women buyers have such good intuition.
0:21:38 So it’s really good to connect, but making sure that it’s not a fake connection.
0:21:42 So I always like to lead with like the business first.
0:21:49 And then if I genuinely like love her shirt or I genuinely love the way she carries herself or talks, I’m going to say that.
0:21:55 But I’m not just going to try to be all bestie bestie with her when it comes off fake because they can sniff that.
0:21:59 And as soon as that happens, it’s completely, completely done.
0:21:59 Okay.
0:22:02 How about selling to an alpha male versus a beta male?
0:22:04 I love this one.
0:22:08 So selling to an alpha male, you have to make him think that it’s his decision.
0:22:11 You can never tell him like, okay, yeah, this is your problem.
0:22:12 This is the solution.
0:22:13 Like this is how much it’s going to be.
0:22:13 Let’s go.
0:22:17 He’s going to be like, no, I think that it should be done this way.
0:22:20 Or in the back of his head, he’s going to be like, well, we’ve tried that before.
0:22:22 Or I need to look at this competitor first.
0:22:24 It’s his decision.
0:22:29 So I always like to say things kind of like, okay, well, I mean, you’re the one that’s been
0:22:30 dealing with this for so long.
0:22:32 Like, why do you think this is happening?
0:22:35 Or, I mean, I’m sure you guys have tried so many things.
0:22:37 I mean, you’ve been in business for quite some time.
0:22:38 Like, what else have you guys tried?
0:22:40 And like, why didn’t that work out?
0:22:43 And they, this is the point where they yap, yap, yap.
0:22:47 And they’re like, oh my gosh, well, Stacy tried to do this and that didn’t work.
0:22:48 And then we tried this and blah, blah, blah.
0:22:50 And then it’s perfect.
0:22:53 You’re giving me so much ammo that I’m going to use later on.
0:22:59 When I’m more of just the helper and the problem solver rather than a sales rep at the end.
0:23:09 So the alpha males, yeah, you have to like, put them up on a pedestal and make them feel all good about themselves in order to really let them be super comfortable buying from you.
0:23:13 Beta males, also some of my favorite sales ever.
0:23:15 I have a lot of vivid memories selling beta males.
0:23:16 Very funny.
0:23:23 I remember this one time when this was maybe my first year doing door-to-door sales.
0:23:31 I remember sitting down on a curb at a grown man’s house for him with 45 minutes going over everything, every question.
0:23:33 He just can’t make a decision.
0:23:37 And I just told him, I’m like, okay, Ben, like, it’s 830.
0:23:38 What’s your last name?
0:23:39 And he was like, let’s just say Blanco.
0:23:41 He’s like, Blanco, but why?
0:23:42 And I’m like, we’re signing you up.
0:23:43 That’s it.
0:23:44 We’ve been talking for way too long.
0:23:45 I’m going home.
0:23:46 Like, we’re just signing you up.
0:23:46 You need it.
0:23:49 And he was like, okay, if you’re going to make me do it.
0:23:57 Beta’s not that extreme of a case, but they like when you outline a game plan.
0:24:01 So they like when you listen to what they’re saying, you really get that problem.
0:24:06 And then you say, okay, a lot of people similar to that, what we’ve done with them is this, this, this, and this.
0:24:08 And then they’ve gotten this and this result.
0:24:14 So as soon as they know the game plan and the results that other people have, it makes it an easy yes for them.
0:24:18 Because they’re like, okay, I like being told what to do a little bit more.
0:24:22 Let’s hold that thought and take a quick break with our sponsors.
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0:29:34 And how can you tell if they’re alpha or beta to begin with, like, right at the start of the call?
0:29:35 Like, what’s your signals?
0:29:39 So I feel like it is kind of an intuition thing.
0:29:46 But a little bit more of alpha males, especially with a woman selling to them, will interrupt you a little bit.
0:29:49 Or they’ll kind of, like, dominate the conversation.
0:29:51 So it’s not, like, one specific cue or another.
0:29:56 It’s just, like, okay, this guy needs to have his input in pretty much everything.
0:29:59 Or they almost try to steer the call.
0:30:01 Or just super loud.
0:30:03 I hate when people call me, like, little lady.
0:30:06 I feel like that’s, like, a big cue that I get sometimes.
0:30:13 And then beta males, they are a little bit more timid, a little bit, like, they let you completely steer the call.
0:30:21 And with that person, I’m going to maintain that control, outline that control, and then they’re going to follow that control the whole way through.
0:30:23 Is it the same thing with selling to women?
0:30:25 Can there be alpha women and beta women?
0:30:26 Is it just basically the same?
0:30:28 For sure.
0:30:30 Yeah, it’s just the women-on-women dynamic.
0:30:38 You have to make sure that you’re being, like, genuine and relatable to this girl and not super, like, unrelatable or try to be fake besties with her.
0:30:43 Do you feel like, as a woman, you should tone down your hair and makeup?
0:30:44 If you’re going to sell to a woman?
0:30:45 Yes.
0:30:50 So I have had a couple girls experiment with this, and we had a little thread on it in my community.
0:30:51 Yes.
0:30:55 And I think that this makes you a little bit more relatable.
0:31:01 But also, like, you want the client to feel like the superstar the whole time.
0:31:06 You never want to be the one that’s, like, shiny, wearing all these fancy jewelry.
0:31:06 Like, no.
0:31:09 Nobody wants to buy from somebody that looks like that.
0:31:12 So people want to buy from somebody that, like, makes them feel good.
0:31:14 It’s the same thing with dating.
0:31:19 I always relate a lot of sales stuff back to dating is, like, you could go on a date with
0:31:21 a guy and you’re like, oh, my God, this guy is so cool.
0:31:22 He’s amazing.
0:31:24 He’s done all these things.
0:31:24 That’s so cool.
0:31:29 Or you could go on a date with a guy and you walk away and you’re like, he made me feel so
0:31:29 cool.
0:31:33 Like, he made me feel like the shining star.
0:31:36 And what you’re going to do is you’re probably going to go on a date with the guy that made you
0:31:38 feel amazing more than the other guy.
0:31:44 So that’s how I always like to treat that dynamic with my clients is I want you to feel like
0:31:45 that girl.
0:31:49 And I feel like especially after you close them, like, let’s say you have some sort of
0:31:51 an agency, you have to keep continuing to see that person.
0:31:54 You really don’t always want to be like so dolled up.
0:31:57 So they’re like, oh, here you are coming on the call again, like so dolled up.
0:31:59 And we’re just having a business meeting, you know?
0:32:02 So I try to be very casual in those situations.
0:32:03 Okay.
0:32:05 Last one, young versus old.
0:32:06 Okay.
0:32:07 So young people.
0:32:10 So you can either sell with pain or pleasure.
0:32:17 And everybody knows selling with pain is way better just because people buy with pain more
0:32:18 than they buy with pleasure.
0:32:21 People sell painkillers a lot easier than they sell vitamins, basically.
0:32:25 So you always want to look for the pain and pleasure with every single person.
0:32:27 So every single person is going to be different.
0:32:30 You might be on a call with a young person who has a lot of pain.
0:32:31 You’re going to sell with that.
0:32:37 But for the most part, generalization, young people are buying the dream and older people
0:32:38 are buying a pain point.
0:32:43 So you’re selling a little bit more with dream state questions with young people of like,
0:32:45 okay, you have so much potential.
0:32:46 Like, where do you want to get to?
0:32:49 I could see that for you versus older people.
0:32:54 It’s a lot of past stuff that you’re bringing up, which is going to be more provoking questions,
0:32:56 emotional pain.
0:33:00 And then I always like to say with old people, you need to let them
0:33:10 talk about their life, maybe their deceased wife or their grandkids or like whatever is
0:33:10 going on in their life.
0:33:15 But make sure that they’re not wasting your time and like bring them back into the sale
0:33:16 periodically.
0:33:22 That way you’re not stuck there talking about little Jimmy’s football game last Sunday.
0:33:24 And you’re like, okay, like I’m here for a sales call.
0:33:25 So like, let’s go.
0:33:30 I feel like older people, and I’m talking about like 60 and up, you know, like, they tend
0:33:32 to ask a lot of questions.
0:33:35 And I feel like the sales process just takes longer.
0:33:36 They ask a lot of questions.
0:33:38 They’re scared of salespeople.
0:33:41 And they don’t, they’re not as trustworthy.
0:33:43 And they seem to have a million questions.
0:33:44 That’s my experience.
0:33:45 A million questions.
0:33:48 They like to know every single scenario.
0:33:52 And old people, yes, that’s also a lot of the beta people too.
0:33:53 And a lot of women too.
0:33:56 Women love to know they buy comfort.
0:34:02 So they like to know every single detail, exactly what happens when you purchase all the next steps
0:34:02 and everything.
0:34:07 So if somebody needs a little bit more comfort, I would say you sit there with them and you give
0:34:12 them the comfort and those people will be your best customers because they ask every single
0:34:12 question in the book.
0:34:16 They won’t come to you later being like, oh, well, I didn’t know this.
0:34:16 I didn’t know this.
0:34:17 I didn’t know this.
0:34:21 You’re gonna be like, you asked me every single question, you know, like we went over everything.
0:34:26 So in my experience, they’re actually some of my favorite customers because they know what
0:34:26 they’re buying.
0:34:27 Yeah, I totally agree.
0:34:33 So Shelby, you started your sales career with door-to-door selling and I honestly couldn’t
0:34:38 think of a better sales training to get thicker skin, get comfortable with rejection.
0:34:44 So first off, tell us about your door-to-door selling experience and what kind of sales skills
0:34:45 did you learn?
0:34:47 Everything under the sun.
0:34:48 Oh my gosh.
0:34:52 So I started doing door-to-door sales when I was 18 years old.
0:34:56 I was working like all these different jobs in college and I just remember thinking I’m going
0:34:58 to be successful, I just don’t know how.
0:35:03 I was so scared of sales because that was the one like business internship that I haven’t
0:35:03 dabbled in.
0:35:08 And so I remember talking to one of my mentors and he’s like, yeah, I did door-to-door sales,
0:35:10 great skill set, made a lot of money.
0:35:11 And I’m like, okay, cool.
0:35:12 So I’ll go out and try it.
0:35:13 I went out there.
0:35:15 First of all, I almost quit before I went out there.
0:35:17 Thank God I didn’t quit because I wouldn’t be here.
0:35:20 But my first summer, it was amazing.
0:35:21 I was the only girl.
0:35:26 And I really kind of like what you were saying when you, what you felt at your corporate job,
0:35:33 that’s kind of what I felt is like, no matter how much I sold, no matter how top of the leaderboards
0:35:36 I was every single week, there’s just a level of like respect.
0:35:41 That’s hard to get when you work with either older people in a corporate setting or all guys,
0:35:42 all sales bros.
0:35:43 But I loved it.
0:35:48 I just love being able to walk up to a door and somebody opened the door and they’re like,
0:35:51 oh my gosh, how do I get this girl off of my door?
0:35:53 I’m cooking dinner right now.
0:35:57 Like I just put my kid to bed and then you say the right words and kind of like disarm them.
0:36:00 And then they’re giving you their Amex like 10 minutes later.
0:36:05 It’s the most confident building activity you could possibly do.
0:36:08 And that skill set carries over so well.
0:36:15 I always like to say door-to-door sales is like the number one sales skill set that you could
0:36:15 possibly get.
0:36:20 It’s the hardest because you have to go out to a market, obviously be in person, a lot
0:36:20 more rejection.
0:36:23 There’s a lot better opportunities than door-to-door.
0:36:27 But like starting out that skill set you’ll learn is insane.
0:36:32 Yeah, because it’s like kind of like cold calling, but in real life and nobody invited you to their
0:36:33 house.
0:36:33 No.
0:36:38 So it’s not like in a store, like I got my sales skills, like I worked in so many clothing
0:36:42 stores and that gave me a lot of experience, but people were coming into my house.
0:36:46 You’re like going to like, they’re like, we’re like busy right now.
0:36:47 Go away.
0:36:48 Oh my gosh.
0:36:48 Yeah.
0:36:49 Busy right now.
0:36:52 Sometimes like you even have to get them out of the house.
0:36:54 So like everybody has the ring cameras now.
0:36:58 So a lot of people see a door-to-door sales rep and they’re like, oh, they don’t even answer
0:36:59 the door.
0:37:04 So a lot of it is like the art of trying to get somebody out of the house and piquing their
0:37:06 curiosity within the first like five seconds.
0:37:08 That way they just at least listen.
0:37:14 Like a big thing with that industry is just getting people to listen to your sales pitch
0:37:16 versus like what you’re saying, warm leads.
0:37:20 This is why like my academy is for high ticket sales because it’s all warm leads.
0:37:25 And I try to tell the girls, I’m like, you have no idea how good you have it.
0:37:28 Like somebody’s actively coming to you.
0:37:30 I would have killed for that.
0:37:30 I know.
0:37:33 So it’s great skill set.
0:37:35 Well, now you know how to handle rejection.
0:37:39 And I know that you say we need to love rejection, not just like we need to love it.
0:37:42 We need to make sure not we’re not being soft girls.
0:37:43 So what do you mean by that?
0:37:44 Okay.
0:37:45 There’s a couple of things with that.
0:37:47 Number one, the rejection thing.
0:37:52 I always train people, especially with mindset because sales is a big with mindset is it’s
0:37:53 pretty much a math equation.
0:37:58 So if you’re closing ratios, let’s say 40%, that means every 10 people you talk to, you’re
0:37:59 going to close four of them.
0:38:05 If the first six that you talk to are just no, no, no, no, no, you should be so excited because
0:38:08 literally mathematically, the next four are going to buy from you.
0:38:10 They have to.
0:38:14 And so you know that not every single person is going to say no to you forever.
0:38:19 So the more knows you get, I look at it like you’re just sifting through the non-qualified
0:38:23 buyers and getting to the qualified buyers that are actually going to buy from you.
0:38:26 So it’s more like every time I get a no, I’m like, okay, for sure.
0:38:27 Like, thank you.
0:38:29 Like, I’ll never call you again.
0:38:33 Well, that’s false because I will be blowing up your phone, but it’s like, okay, done,
0:38:34 done, done, done.
0:38:38 And then I wait for the person that’s like actually sitting down serious, ready to go.
0:38:44 So yeah, old saying of every nose closer to yes is so true, but it’s more of like the mathematical
0:38:46 reasoning behind it is true.
0:38:50 So that and then the soft girl, I have a problem with the soft girl.
0:38:52 I can’t do it.
0:38:54 It’s a big trend right now.
0:39:01 And it’s like the soft girl, demure life, sitting back, relaxing, letting a man pay for your whole
0:39:08 life, not really working too hard, letting everything come to you, attracting, which I’m
0:39:09 all here for.
0:39:14 A lot of the things that I do with my girls is mindset, spirituality, law of attraction,
0:39:16 being delusional manifestation.
0:39:20 So I get that, but you can’t just do that.
0:39:21 You have to do that.
0:39:24 And then you have to put your actions behind that.
0:39:27 You have to put your money where your mouth is and actually show up.
0:39:30 Like you can’t show up to a sales call and be like, I’m going to manifest this person to
0:39:31 buy.
0:39:33 And then you get hit with one objection and you’re like, yeah, for sure.
0:39:34 I’ll follow up with you tomorrow.
0:39:38 It’s like, no, you’re going to sit there and you’re going to, it’s going to be uncomfortable
0:39:41 and it’s going to be, require a lot of effort, but you’re going to sit there.
0:39:45 You’re going to roll objection after objection after objection until they either buy from you
0:39:46 or literally want to kill you.
0:39:47 No, I’m kidding.
0:39:52 But I always tell my girls like, yes, you can be soft girl, but when it comes to sales and
0:39:55 when it comes to like work, you’re hard girl.
0:39:57 So you can like turn it on and off.
0:40:02 But if you want to make money, there’s literally no way around it when it comes to sales.
0:40:02 Yeah.
0:40:04 You got to just go after it.
0:40:06 You got to make sure that they know that you know your stuff.
0:40:08 And that’s not a passive thing.
0:40:10 That’s like an alpha attitude that you have to have.
0:40:11 It is.
0:40:12 Yeah.
0:40:13 So I see that trend.
0:40:15 I’m like, I don’t know about that.
0:40:16 Yeah.
0:40:19 And not to mention those girls that just get their lives paid for.
0:40:23 They have no control over their lives at the end of the day.
0:40:25 And that’s the thing is like money’s energy.
0:40:30 And so I totally get like you’re marrying somebody and they want to take care of you.
0:40:34 I love that because that’s like a protective energy of like, you’re good.
0:40:37 I got you, but it shouldn’t be the be all end all.
0:40:43 Because what if said person leaves, which is a true reality.
0:40:44 Nobody ever thinks they’re going to leave in the beginning.
0:40:49 So it’s always knowing that you either have a skill set that you could turn into money at
0:40:52 any point in time, which in my opinion, I could sell anything.
0:40:52 You could sell anything.
0:40:57 So it’s like learning skill sets that can never be taken away from you or having a business
0:41:01 that can never be taken away from you is always just the most confident building thing with
0:41:05 a woman to know that she could if she wanted to, but also just the smartest.
0:41:12 So you were bringing up objections before, and I know there’s like a limited number of things that
0:41:13 people can really say.
0:41:17 Like you can actually think through all the objections that somebody’s going to have for
0:41:18 your product or service.
0:41:23 So I’m going to rattle off an objection and then I want you to tell me how to respond.
0:41:24 Okay.
0:41:24 Okay.
0:41:24 For sure.
0:41:25 I love that.
0:41:25 Okay.
0:41:27 I need more time.
0:41:28 How much time do you need?
0:41:31 I don’t know, maybe a couple months, a couple months.
0:41:32 Okay.
0:41:33 Let’s double it.
0:41:35 I’ll give you, um, you said you want one month.
0:41:38 I’ll give you two months just because if we were to move forward, I would want to make sure
0:41:44 that you are super sure a hundred percent confident because in this program, these people are confident.
0:41:45 These people are ready to go.
0:41:49 And a big part of my job is making sure that everybody’s good to go when they get in that
0:41:51 way we have proper testimonials.
0:41:54 So if you’re not there yet, let’s just not make a decision.
0:41:58 And in the meantime, while you’re doing your job and kind of thinking about it, I’ll do
0:42:03 my job and send you over all of the information in order to make sure that when you do think
0:42:05 about it, you’ll have a really good educated decision.
0:42:09 So what are two things you would want me to include in those email flows?
0:42:11 That way you can make an educated decision.
0:42:12 I love that.
0:42:16 You’re taking it away and people want what they can’t have.
0:42:20 So suddenly they’re like, oh no, no, I really only need, maybe I only need a week.
0:42:21 You’re taking it away.
0:42:22 Now they can’t have it.
0:42:27 That’s what I say as like the hot girl is when it comes to a point, and normally this,
0:42:28 I need to think about it.
0:42:29 Objection is just a smokescreen.
0:42:33 So I handled it as it was a real objection, but most of the time it’s a smokescreen.
0:42:35 So it’s just kind of like, no, for sure.
0:42:38 And kind of like brush over it because people are just scared at the end of the day.
0:42:41 But when it’s a true, like you’ve done it a couple of times and they’re like, no, I need
0:42:42 to think about it.
0:42:45 It’s like, okay, give them the time then.
0:42:48 But you give them fake time, the illusion of that.
0:42:51 And then you can just get back into the sales pitch by giving them what they want, disarming
0:42:53 them and then getting back into the pitch.
0:42:57 So you’re saying by asking them, like, what do you need to see in their proposal?
0:43:01 You feel like that’s going to shorten up the time that they actually want it or just like
0:43:02 they didn’t really want the time.
0:43:03 They wanted the information.
0:43:04 Yes.
0:43:10 That was my point with that is you would then say, oh, well, can you send me over some reviews?
0:43:12 Can you send me over some testimonials?
0:43:15 Can you send me over everything that’s included, all the package options?
0:43:18 And then as you’re like typing up the email, you’re like, oh, my God, for sure.
0:43:20 Like, I actually have all of the testimonials pulled up here.
0:43:21 Let me just show you.
0:43:25 And then you’re just right back into the sales pitch and you’re showing them.
0:43:28 If that doesn’t work, another angle I like to use is convenience.
0:43:35 And this is something that you tie back in from earlier is, you know, if you’re a busy mom
0:43:39 or you’re a business owner, whatever you’re doing, I always like to say you can always think
0:43:40 about it.
0:43:42 But to be honest, like, do you want to think about it?
0:43:46 Like, you’re a busy mom, you’re a business owner, you’re never going to have intentional
0:43:48 time like we do right now to make a decision.
0:43:52 And when it comes with a decision, maybe you need time, but what you need is more information
0:43:53 in order to make a great decision.
0:43:57 So we have the time and we have the information, which is me.
0:43:58 So what are two things?
0:43:58 Yeah.
0:44:01 And depending on the solution, if they say they need more time, it could be like, well,
0:44:05 how much time have you wasted not making a decision or how much time and money you’re
0:44:09 going to lose if you wait two months to implement X, Y, Z, right?
0:44:13 One of my favorite things, too, is when people are like, let me sleep on it.
0:44:17 I always like to say, well, don’t you get the best sleep when you already made a decision?
0:44:18 It’s already good to go.
0:44:21 Like, you’re going to get the best sleep ever once we make that decision.
0:44:25 So do you want to wait a while and be thinking about this every night?
0:44:25 Oh, should I do this?
0:44:27 Or do you want to just do it?
0:44:28 We’ve been talking for like an hour.
0:44:28 Let’s just do it.
0:44:29 You’ll get the best sleep tonight.
0:44:29 Let’s go.
0:44:31 Okay.
0:44:32 How about it’s too expensive?
0:44:34 I mean, you get what you pay for.
0:44:36 Depends on what you’re selling.
0:44:39 But I always position myself as the most expensive person.
0:44:43 So I’m telling this person, like, for sure, there’s 40 other people lying down the street
0:44:45 that’ll take your business in a heartbeat.
0:44:49 But when it comes to a service-based business or when it comes to a fitness program, a health
0:44:52 program, whatever you’re selling, if you’re going to do it, you might as well do it right.
0:44:55 And so if you want cheap, that’s definitely not us.
0:44:55 There’s other people.
0:44:59 But if what you want is a great product or great service and a good reputation behind
0:45:02 that, that’s actually going to get you the results, then that’s what we do.
0:45:04 I love that.
0:45:06 So I know with me, like, I have two businesses.
0:45:08 I have my podcast network.
0:45:10 I have my social media agency.
0:45:13 And if somebody tells me my social media services are too expensive, we’re like the number one
0:45:14 LinkedIn marketing agency.
0:45:17 We charge $10,000 a month for LinkedIn.
0:45:19 So a lot of people are like, whoa, that’s expensive.
0:45:21 And I’ll be like, well, are you selling right now?
0:45:22 Yes.
0:45:29 If I made you an influencer on LinkedIn and you got 10x to 100x more leads every month,
0:45:32 you would make that $10,000 back right away, right?
0:45:32 Exactly.
0:45:35 Give them the track record of who stayed with you.
0:45:39 I’m like, you know, I’ve had these clients that have been with me for six years and they’re
0:45:40 happily paying the 10k.
0:45:42 I also like to do the inverse.
0:45:46 So you can do the positive of like, obviously, like it costs this much a month.
0:45:49 But I mean, let’s say we get you two clients to make that back in this, whatever.
0:45:50 So that’s the positive.
0:45:54 But also the negative, which is the opportunity cost of like, okay, so you’re right here.
0:45:57 What’s the cost of you not doing this?
0:45:58 Let’s say we can get you here and you’re here.
0:46:01 You’re actually losing all of this over the next two months.
0:46:04 So you can take that positive, which I love.
0:46:07 And then you can also do the negative if you want to get more mathematical and more granular
0:46:09 about it in like a make money offer.
0:46:10 So I love that.
0:46:14 And it’s really important to actually ask questions so that like, for example, I know
0:46:19 how much they’re charging for their offer, how they get leads, what are their typical way
0:46:19 of getting leads?
0:46:21 Do they close deals on their own?
0:46:26 So it’s important to know like whatever your business is, what questions do you need to ask
0:46:30 the person so that if they do give you the objection, you’re like, well, no, if you get two clients
0:46:33 that pays for the service, I’m going to get you 100 clients a month, you know?
0:46:37 Well, that’s the biggest thing with these objections that I try to teach my girls is
0:46:44 in door to door, it was like objection central, but in high ticket and anything that’s more warm
0:46:50 leads than anything, you can do so much front end work to where these objections shouldn’t even really
0:46:52 be that big of a deal towards the end.
0:46:54 I call this shutting doors.
0:46:59 So I basically say there’s about six different doors that are open, you know, time, price,
0:47:03 anything that they’ve done before, fear, priority, money.
0:47:07 And you need to shut every single door that way they can’t open it back up later into the
0:47:08 sales pitch.
0:47:12 So like, for example, the objection that, you know, you just gave me the first one of I need
0:47:14 to think about it or it’s not the right time.
0:47:19 I would ask a question in the beginning of the sale saying something like, okay, well, I mean,
0:47:23 you’ve been in this business for quite some time, like, why haven’t you done this before?
0:47:28 Or on a scale from one to 10, how ready are you in order to get real results with this?
0:47:33 And they’ll say maybe seven, okay, seven’s really high, but why not?
0:47:34 What would make you a 10?
0:47:39 And so those kind of like shutting the doors in the beginning will prevent them from saying
0:47:40 I need to think about it.
0:47:47 And even if they do, you can use the ammo that you got to the objection to like tailor to that
0:47:47 person.
0:47:48 So smart.
0:47:49 Yeah.
0:47:53 So it’s a little bit of a different way to train every industry, but I prefer the warm lead
0:47:59 one all the way because these cold hard objections, it’s like, if you do it right, you’ll have so
0:48:02 much ammo to where you’re actually excited to hear an objection.
0:48:04 So you’re like, girl, you just told me you were a nine.
0:48:07 Like, come on, let’s be fucking for real.
0:48:07 You know?
0:48:08 Yeah.
0:48:11 Basically, like the front end work of the sale.
0:48:14 Everybody’s like, when they see me, they’re like, oh, well, how do I roll this objection?
0:48:15 What do I say when they say this?
0:48:16 How do I close somebody?
0:48:19 It’s like, okay, the end should be the easiest part.
0:48:22 The beginning is the part that everybody overlooks.
0:48:25 Everybody just hops on is like, oh, nice to meet you.
0:48:26 Well, let me show you a little bit about what we do.
0:48:27 Price.
0:48:28 Oh, I need to think about it.
0:48:29 It’s expensive.
0:48:30 I’ve already done something like this before.
0:48:35 And it’s like, because you didn’t do the front part right.
0:48:36 Exactly.
0:48:41 Like, if you get them to tell you what their objections are or to like dismantle these objections
0:48:44 in the beginning with those doors that you mentioned, they’re not going to want to go
0:48:45 back on their word.
0:48:48 They’re not going to want to contradict themselves because people always want to be right.
0:48:53 Well, that’s what I always say is people believe 0% of the words that come out of a salesperson’s
0:48:57 mouth because duh, you’re a sales rep, but they believe a hundred percent of the words
0:48:58 that come out of their own mouth.
0:49:03 So a lot of my job is asking the right questions and getting them to say the words that they can’t
0:49:08 go back on later because it would feel so unnatural and it would make them, like you said, not right
0:49:10 and to go back on their word.
0:49:14 Also, I know a lot of the people watching are males.
0:49:20 So I have a little analogy that I like to relate to a lot of the guys, but a lot of people
0:49:22 underestimate the front end of the sale.
0:49:24 But if you think about it, I always like to relate it back to dating.
0:49:28 It’s like when you take a girl out on a date, you know, you’re going to do, you’re going
0:49:29 to set the date up, right?
0:49:33 You’re going to butter up, open up her chair, pay for the meal, tell her what to wear, all
0:49:35 this stuff, like send her a car.
0:49:39 That way the clothes at the end of the day is so much easier, right?
0:49:42 If you don’t do the whole date, right, then you’re just going to be digging yourself out
0:49:44 of a hole when you go to kiss her at the end of the night.
0:49:45 Yeah.
0:49:46 Good analogy.
0:49:47 Okay.
0:49:48 A couple more.
0:49:51 I tried something similar and it didn’t work out.
0:49:52 Are you married?
0:49:53 No.
0:49:54 Do you want to be married?
0:49:55 Yeah.
0:49:57 Have you had an ex-boyfriend before?
0:49:58 Yes, many.
0:50:00 Do we hate him?
0:50:02 No, I don’t hate anyone.
0:50:07 I know that was funny, but my point is, you know, if your goal is still the same, it doesn’t
0:50:09 matter what else you’ve tried before.
0:50:11 That shouldn’t stop you from still reaching that goal.
0:50:17 So same, like I hate my ex-boyfriends as well, but I still want to get married, have that
0:50:17 family and everything.
0:50:19 So that doesn’t stop me from going on dates.
0:50:24 So what should stop you from trying out a different avenue in order to get to XYZ, whatever
0:50:24 you’re selling?
0:50:28 That’s one of my favorite ones, just because as soon as I asked that, they’re like, I mean,
0:50:31 yes, or I mean, no, like it doesn’t matter what they say.
0:50:36 And then I like to use analogies to sell a lot just because it makes things come in people’s
0:50:36 brains.
0:50:40 So pretty much no matter what objection, you can use an analogy, like one with prices,
0:50:45 like organic groceries, you can do costs with different Starbucks drinks or gas tanks.
0:50:49 But I always like to bring it back to something that they know to where they’re like, oh, my
0:50:50 God, yeah, I get it.
0:50:55 And so the marriage one is easy because it’s like, OK, well, do you still want to get leads
0:50:55 for your business?
0:50:56 Do you still want to blah, blah, blah?
0:50:58 Yeah, the problem hasn’t gone away.
0:50:59 Right.
0:51:04 You can also ask them like, and this is something that I would ask in the beginning of the pitch
0:51:06 is what else have you tried before?
0:51:07 Why didn’t you like that?
0:51:08 What are you looking for?
0:51:12 That way, when they’re like at the end of the pitch, they’re not going to tell me, oh,
0:51:13 I’ve done something else.
0:51:14 It’s like we already talked about that, girl.
0:51:16 We’re already good on that.
0:51:17 And I love what you say.
0:51:19 You say like an objection is like an infection.
0:51:24 If you don’t resolve it, it just gets worse and worse down the down the pipeline.
0:51:28 And like the infection starts in the beginning.
0:51:33 So that would start, for example, like if you’re on a call with a girl and she has like
0:51:35 fat rock, she’s obviously married.
0:51:39 And if you don’t ask the proper questions and shut the door of the spouse objection in the
0:51:44 beginning, you’re going to get it at the end, like nine times out of 10.
0:51:51 And so you can either one save an hour of your time asking Stacey about, oh, like, has your
0:51:53 husband, have you guys ever talked about this before?
0:51:55 What does he think about this?
0:51:56 Does he even know that you’re on this call?
0:51:58 Do you guys have a budget set aside for this?
0:52:01 Not if she’s like, oh, yeah, no, he handles everything.
0:52:02 He doesn’t even know I’m on this call.
0:52:04 I would just be like, OK, no problem.
0:52:07 You go grab your husband and we’ll schedule a follow up call with your husband because I
0:52:13 want everybody to be in on the same position because you can just waste so much time if
0:52:15 you don’t resolve the spouse objection in the beginning.
0:52:20 But you want to be careful not to assume that the guy is bringing in all the money.
0:52:25 You would be surprised how many times the guys would give the spouse objections.
0:52:28 It’s pretty 50-50.
0:52:32 And the worst thing that all the guys that I would train a door to door is they would always
0:52:34 assume that the husbands would do it.
0:52:35 And I’m like, no, you don’t understand.
0:52:38 Like, a lot of the guys need their wife’s approval.
0:52:40 So you really do never know.
0:52:43 So that’s why it’s important to ask those questions in the beginning.
0:52:46 We’ll be right back after a quick break from our sponsors.
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0:54:38 This episode of Young and Profiting Podcast is brought to you by Mercury, the modern business
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0:56:25 Hello, young Improfiters.
0:56:28 Let’s talk about what drives a business’s success.
0:56:34 Sure, having a great product, a strong brand, and savvy marketing can set companies like Death
0:56:38 Wish Coffee, Magic Spoon, or even a legacy brand like Heinz apart.
0:56:42 But the real secret to skyrocketing sales often isn’t just what they sell.
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0:57:52 Do you feel like today’s buyers are different than the past?
0:57:55 Like how has today’s buyers changed over time?
0:58:01 Today’s buyers are super turned off by like scripts and salesy sales pitches.
0:58:06 And I think today’s sales process doesn’t even start with the sales call.
0:58:10 I think it starts with content of whatever you’re selling and those first points of contact.
0:58:12 So everything’s a sale.
0:58:13 It’s not just a sales call.
0:58:14 It’s not just a sales pitch.
0:58:19 It’s if you’re selling a program for a coach and they’re putting content out, that’s part
0:58:19 of the sale.
0:58:25 And so a lot of the times when, you know, we work with offers, I like to look at the offers
0:58:25 content.
0:58:30 It’s like, okay, are you using the marketing agencies that are just doing like the big neon
0:58:31 text?
0:58:33 And you sound like you’re scripted.
0:58:37 It’s like, okay, there’s a lead from that is probably not going to be as good of a lead
0:58:40 as somebody that’s just raw, genuine, real with their audience.
0:58:43 That’s super upfront with what they sell.
0:58:47 And they know exactly what they’re getting into before they get on to a sales call.
0:58:52 And so a lot of the training that we do with my girls is like, okay, once you finish my
0:58:57 training, we also coach you on like how to find the high ticket offers to sell for.
0:59:03 And so the girls, it’s like, okay, how do you evaluate how good the online coach is doing
0:59:04 with the sales?
0:59:07 It’s like, okay, you look at the content, you look at the lead flow, you look at how interactive
0:59:08 they are.
0:59:11 And so I think the sales starts with that.
0:59:16 And then that’s why it’s like the closing call is closing makes our job 10 times easier.
0:59:17 Yeah.
0:59:22 I really want to get into online selling with you and social media, but let’s actually talk
0:59:22 about close.
0:59:26 Like what’s your best guidance for closing a deal?
0:59:33 So I think that soft closing a deal multiple times throughout a sales pitch is the best way
0:59:34 to go before you get to a hard close.
0:59:37 So I always like to layer in, I do a couple of different soft closes.
0:59:40 A temperature gauge and then a hard close.
0:59:42 And this is for, this is for warmly.
0:59:47 It’s a lot different than if I were doing like cold calling door to door, but soft closing
0:59:51 is essentially any sort of close that makes it a little bit soft, a little bit contingent.
0:59:56 So I would say something like if, if we were to even set something up, would you want to
0:59:57 do this package or this package?
0:59:59 Would you want to do the calls on this day or this day?
1:00:02 What would be a priority for you if you were to be in the program?
1:00:05 What would be your commitment level if you were to join the program?
1:00:10 So it’s, you can kind of tell where somebody’s at before you hard close them rather than
1:00:11 just going in for the close.
1:00:13 And you tell that based off of their responses.
1:00:15 So they can respond one of two ways.
1:00:19 Number one is I would definitely want to do like the whole thing.
1:00:24 Or they could say like, if we were going to do it, then I would want to do this.
1:00:26 And that’s the contingent part.
1:00:31 And so with that person, you would sit there, build a lot more value before you go in for the
1:00:36 close because the worst thing you can do, my job is all preventing the objections.
1:00:40 The worst thing you can do is not know where the customer stands, go in for the hard close.
1:00:43 And then they just tell you some BS of like, yeah, for sure.
1:00:44 But I would need to think about it.
1:00:46 And then you’re just digging yourself out of a hole.
1:00:51 So it’s the layering, the soft closes in kind of getting that temperature gauge of where they’re
1:00:52 at.
1:00:55 And then the close once you know that this person’s like pretty good to go.
1:01:00 How do you feel about giving the price on the discovery call?
1:01:03 Do you like to wait to give the price or what’s your strategy there?
1:01:05 So I teach my girls.
1:01:11 So like, for example, like DM setting or the discovery calls, some setters, no price at all.
1:01:15 But it’s hard because you also want to make sure that this person’s a qualified buyer, that
1:01:19 they have some sort of money or else there’s no point in getting on a sales call.
1:01:24 So the rule of thumb that I always give my girls with their offers is whatever your lowest
1:01:27 package is, half of that has to be the minimum.
1:01:30 So because there’s payment plans a lot of the time.
1:01:32 So let’s say your lowest package is $3,000.
1:01:35 I would have the setters qualify them with $1,500.
1:01:39 Do you have at least $1,500 to get on the sales call?
1:01:43 Because if they have $1,500, then they can sell them the lowest package at a split.
1:01:48 But you never give the full price because there’s zero value built.
1:01:55 And also, this is very, very important with setting up follow-up calls with spouses is I
1:01:59 always tell them like, OK, for our sake, just because we built so much value, I don’t want
1:02:02 your husband to be like, oh, can I join this program for this amount?
1:02:03 Obviously, he’s going to say no.
1:02:05 So let’s just do this.
1:02:08 We’ll go over everything with your husband tomorrow at 5 p.m.
1:02:09 Do me a favor.
1:02:13 Let him come the same way that you came blank state just kind of to learn.
1:02:15 And then we can go over the packages.
1:02:20 So I don’t want them to talk about, even though they probably will, but I don’t want them to
1:02:22 say, oh, marketing agency for $5,000.
1:02:23 They’re just like, wait, what?
1:02:25 No, there’s no value built.
1:02:27 Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
1:02:32 So basically, the initial calls with call setters, not the expert, but once you actually go over
1:02:36 everything in detail, what they’re getting, ask them questions, whatever, you can then give
1:02:38 them the price at the end.
1:02:41 Yeah, so the price is going to be in the close at the end.
1:02:44 And the close for high ticket is so simple.
1:02:50 It’s just in the investment in order to get you to X, Y, Z is going to be blank.
1:02:51 Shut up.
1:02:52 It’s just a statement close.
1:02:53 It’s easy.
1:02:55 Or you could do an option close with packages.
1:02:55 Depends.
1:02:56 Yep.
1:02:57 And I love the language that you use.
1:02:58 You didn’t say cost.
1:03:01 You said the investment, which is way more positive.
1:03:02 Investment.
1:03:04 And then you add in the goal KPI.
1:03:11 So the investment in order to get you to those 10,000 leads a month, the investment in order
1:03:14 to get the 10 to 15 pounds lost that you were telling me about.
1:03:18 You remind them of what they’re buying before you give the cost.
1:03:19 Okay.
1:03:20 Last question on sales.
1:03:21 Then we’re going to get into social media.
1:03:23 Talk to me about reverse selling.
1:03:27 So I always say sales isn’t a chase.
1:03:27 It’s a dance.
1:03:33 And so 90% of salespeople are just product pushing, product pushing, objection, super aggressive.
1:03:36 And when you chase somebody, they’re going to run away.
1:03:42 So a dance is knowing when to push a little bit, but then when to pull back.
1:03:45 So when you ask me, you know, like, listen, she’ll be like, I really need to think about
1:03:46 it.
1:03:47 It’s like, okay, no problem.
1:03:49 At this point, they would have told me that a couple of times.
1:03:50 So it’s like, okay, no problem.
1:03:51 How long do you need?
1:03:52 They never really say a month.
1:03:56 They normally say like two days, but then that’s when you pull back a little bit because
1:03:59 you can’t give your energy too much.
1:04:03 You need to at some point reverse the energy and reverse sell.
1:04:10 Another way I love to reverse sell is what I call the hot potato technique.
1:04:14 So most sales reps, they’ll go, oh, well, why should I go with you guys?
1:04:17 And they’ll go, oh, because we have this, we have this, we have this.
1:04:18 We’re the best here, here, and here.
1:04:21 It’s like, no, your energy is going like this.
1:04:22 You’re just selling them.
1:04:22 You’re chasing them.
1:04:24 You’re selling yourself.
1:04:27 The hot potato sales technique is exactly what it sounds.
1:04:28 It’s like playing hot potato.
1:04:29 You get the potato.
1:04:29 It’s hot.
1:04:30 You throw it right back.
1:04:31 Same thing in sales.
1:04:35 So I teach my girls to say, okay, well, why should we go with you guys?
1:04:37 Well, what’s important to you?
1:04:39 Oh, well, this, this, and this.
1:04:41 Okay, well, why are those things important to you?
1:04:43 Oh, because in the past we’ve had this, this, and this.
1:04:48 Now they’re selling themselves on why they should be a part of your program or whatever you’re
1:04:53 selling, and it comes back to what you were saying of people believe 0% of the words that
1:04:56 come out of your mouth, but they’ll believe every word that they say.
1:04:59 So it’s about asking the right questions and making them sell themselves.
1:05:05 Something that I like to do on my sales calls is I try to like disqualify somebody from even
1:05:06 being able to work with me.
1:05:12 Like I’m so exclusive that actually I need to qualify you to be my client.
1:05:13 Talk to us about why that works.
1:05:14 Yeah.
1:05:16 So I actually call it the gatekeeper.
1:05:20 And so I tell my girls, this is something that could really only work for warm leads,
1:05:20 right?
1:05:25 Like I can’t, I could never go up to somebody’s door and act like I’m interviewing them, the
1:05:26 gatekeeper, right?
1:05:29 So it’s different, but in warm leads, a hundred percent.
1:05:34 And I tell them like, you have to have the mindset because in high ticket, this person’s
1:05:36 probably been following the creator for quite some time.
1:05:37 Finally wants to book a call, et cetera.
1:05:44 So you need to have the mindset of this person just took an hour out of their day to sit
1:05:45 on a sales call.
1:05:46 There’s a reason for that.
1:05:49 I don’t know about you, but I have to have a pretty big pain point in order to take an
1:05:55 hour out of my very busy day in order to talk about a sales pitch and getting sold a program.
1:06:01 So having that mindset of this person has a problem, our program is the best possible solution
1:06:02 for this person with this problem.
1:06:06 And we only let people in who are going to be good testimonials.
1:06:11 And so when I was rolling that one objection, I said, and part of my job is to make sure
1:06:14 that we’re screening the people that we let in the program, because we don’t want you to
1:06:15 not succeed.
1:06:18 So if you’re not that committed, take that time for sure.
1:06:23 And that kind of makes them pull back a little bit, the reverse selling of, oh, no, I am committed
1:06:23 though.
1:06:24 Like I would want to do this.
1:06:25 Yeah.
1:06:26 But yeah.
1:06:31 So gatekeeper of between this person who has a problem in this program that has their solution
1:06:36 and you’re interviewing them, asking them all the questions to see if they’re going to be
1:06:37 a great testimonial.
1:06:43 And when you tell them at the end, you know, more of a sincere close of, I really do see
1:06:48 you being one of our next testimonials, or when you’re on the testimonial side, telling them
1:06:49 this will be you.
1:06:51 Can you see that for yourself?
1:06:55 Can you see yourself being on the side in three months when you X, Y, Z, get all the rental
1:06:57 properties, kill it in this, whatever.
1:06:59 It comes off a lot more genuine when you treat it like that.
1:07:00 Yeah.
1:07:03 And it’s also good to have different programs for people who are at different levels.
1:07:08 Like, listen, you’re not ready for totally all the services that I can do for you with
1:07:08 the whole team.
1:07:13 And like, you’re not ready for that yet, because I don’t want you to spend money and not get
1:07:13 your ROI.
1:07:16 But why don’t you take my course and get started?
1:07:17 And you know what I mean?
1:07:19 So it’s like having different packages is really important.
1:07:20 For sure.
1:07:21 Okay.
1:07:23 So let’s talk about social media.
1:07:27 You’ve done an incredible job building Instagram and TikTok.
1:07:32 What is like your thought process behind building a community, building a brand?
1:07:35 Like, how are you able to just like kind of come out of nowhere in the last year and just
1:07:38 dominate the female sales persona?
1:07:40 I always get asked this question.
1:07:42 And my answer is very simple.
1:07:49 A lot of people try to do social media instead of just actually being the expert in something
1:07:50 that people want to watch.
1:07:55 Like, everybody’s always worried about what hashtags, what times should I post?
1:07:58 And it’s like, okay, people see through that nowadays.
1:08:01 Like you said, because social media is sales at the end of the day.
1:08:03 People see through that.
1:08:09 So I genuinely think the reason why this time last year I had less than 10,000 followers
1:08:14 and now I’m almost at 600,000 on Instagram is because I can pull out my camera and just
1:08:20 talk about some random closing tip or throughout my day, it’s all I think about.
1:08:21 I’m consumed by it.
1:08:25 So when I hear a sales pitch of somebody on the street trying to sell me something, I’m like,
1:08:27 oh, that was actually like pretty interesting.
1:08:28 I’m going to make a video about that.
1:08:33 So it’s actually being the thing before you like put that on social media.
1:08:37 That way, when people see it, they’re like, this girl actually knows what she’s talking
1:08:38 about and she loves it.
1:08:38 Yeah.
1:08:40 You’re like the go-to person for sales.
1:08:43 Everybody knows what to expect when they go to your page.
1:08:45 They know the energy you’re going to bring, the vibe.
1:08:50 They know you’re talking to women primarily, but anybody can learn from your page, which I’m
1:08:52 sure you’ve got a lot of male followers too.
1:08:53 So many males.
1:08:53 Yeah.
1:08:54 They always comment.
1:08:56 They’re like, I’m not a girl.
1:08:59 Also, I’m not even in sales, but you help me with my confidence.
1:09:00 I’m like, thank you.
1:09:01 But yeah, it’s funny.
1:09:06 And then like the second part about building a brand is super interesting.
1:09:12 So I had a video that I posted maybe like nine months ago, went mega viral.
1:09:17 It was all the girls want to live the rich Porsche Pilates mom lifestyle.
1:09:22 They want to go on walks, Pilates, drive a nice car and just kind of like have that be their
1:09:23 day.
1:09:25 You don’t have to marry an ugly, bald dude.
1:09:26 You can give it to yourself.
1:09:28 And the way that I give it to myself is sales.
1:09:36 And so that video kind of popped and created this brand of like Porsche Pilates, matcha sales,
1:09:37 hot girl sales.
1:09:39 And so it was awesome.
1:09:40 It was super fun.
1:09:42 And now that’s like all of my girls.
1:09:46 They all like wear their hair and ponytails, the gold hoops.
1:09:47 They post their matcha.
1:09:51 So it’s, it really is like a huge community and a real brand.
1:09:54 And it’s fun because that’s the life I live every single day.
1:09:58 So it’s fun posting my little matcha in the morning and the girls are like, love it.
1:09:59 Yeah.
1:10:02 You have built this, like everybody knows what to expect when they go to your page.
1:10:05 And you’re also showing different elements of you.
1:10:06 You’re talking about sales.
1:10:10 Everybody knows you’re going to teach them about sales, but then you’re into working out,
1:10:11 you’re into eating healthy.
1:10:13 And so you’ve got, you can be dynamic.
1:10:17 I always get this question, like, can I be a dynamic person on social media?
1:10:19 And it’s like, yeah, people want to know the real you.
1:10:25 One of the things people wish I was more dynamic about is my dating life.
1:10:28 People are always like, oh, can you do like day in the life?
1:10:31 Get ready with me is like debriefs about your dates.
1:10:36 I’m like, no, I already like guys probably already look at my social media and they’re like,
1:10:38 oh my gosh, like intimidated.
1:10:39 This girl’s loud.
1:10:40 She’s going to try to sell me on a date.
1:10:45 So I’m like, I can’t talk too much about my dating life on social media,
1:10:47 because then nobody’s going to want to date me, you know?
1:10:50 Well, let’s take a little tangent here.
1:10:52 Two very successful women.
1:10:54 How is dating for you?
1:10:56 Do are men just really intimidated, especially with your age?
1:11:00 Everybody thinks that everybody, the comments I get are like,
1:11:03 oh, it’s probably gonna be so hard for her to find a man, blah, blah, blah.
1:11:07 Like, I have never had more options.
1:11:12 And a lot like in the like, the least weird way to say that.
1:11:16 But options aren’t great, because I feel the same way.
1:11:18 But it’s like, it’s almost like I can’t make a choice.
1:11:20 I agree.
1:11:23 And I also don’t have the time to go on all these dates.
1:11:28 So I always like to say, being a successful woman that makes her own money,
1:11:31 it disqualifies all the people that wouldn’t make sense anyways.
1:11:36 Because like, the broke guy is never going to be like, oh, like, that’s my wife.
1:11:36 You know?
1:11:39 So it’s like, but I also don’t want somebody that doesn’t have goals.
1:11:42 So it kind of like disqualifies the people that wouldn’t work out anyways.
1:11:48 And then the options that you do have are like, okay, these are actually like, great, great guys.
1:11:53 And I want to be with somebody that wants their wife to be a badass and have her own thing.
1:11:55 And that I can have intellectual conversations with.
1:11:57 So I think it’s, it’s been going great.
1:12:00 But I also just don’t have a lot of time.
1:12:01 So yeah, I hear you.
1:12:02 All right.
1:12:03 Well, Shelby is single.
1:12:05 If you guys want to take her out on a date.
1:12:07 Yes, you have to live in Miami.
1:12:11 So on Instagram, what do you feel like goes most viral?
1:12:17 So B-roll videos do really well, which is just like the five to second videos with text on it.
1:12:18 Those ones do really well with me.
1:12:22 I like to say in another life, I was the best copywriter on the planet because I,
1:12:25 I do all my social media myself.
1:12:27 I don’t hire a single soul for it.
1:12:30 I was going to ask you, do you do, it looks like it’s all you.
1:12:31 Yes.
1:12:33 I hire, actually that’s false.
1:12:40 I have two like intern copywriters that help me out, but I only have them do bullet points for stories.
1:12:42 And then they only touch stories by the way.
1:12:45 Nobody touches my like actual videos, contents, broadcast channel.
1:12:50 And it’s because I’ve tried it before because it is a lot running the whole social media thing
1:12:52 with how much content I put out.
1:12:55 But when it’s not you, people can tell.
1:12:57 And it’s also not fun to post for me.
1:12:58 I don’t know.
1:13:01 And when it’s me, like it just does so much better.
1:13:04 So I’m like, I’d rather put out less stuff and it actually be me.
1:13:07 But yeah, I do literally everything myself.
1:13:12 The best stuff that does well on Instagram for me, there’s like two buckets.
1:13:15 One bucket is the B-roll with the funny copy on it.
1:13:19 But the other bucket is a really funny sales tip.
1:13:22 So I’ll start a video by saying something out of pocket.
1:13:25 Like you have to be a brat in sales.
1:13:26 And people are like, wait, what?
1:13:29 But then I follow it up with a really good sales tactic.
1:13:32 That’s like, okay, well, when somebody asks you a question, you ask them a question back.
1:13:33 That’s bratty.
1:13:35 But like, that’s how you get the deal done.
1:13:37 And people are like, okay, that makes sense.
1:13:40 And those videos get the most amount of followers.
1:13:43 The B-roll ones are like, no, they’re just like for fun.
1:13:46 But the sales tip ones are what really grow a page.
1:13:51 Yeah, so it’s like kind of shock them with something that they’re like, what is she talking about?
1:13:54 And then give them a really smart response.
1:13:56 And then they’re like, okay, that makes sense.
1:14:02 I’m so excited because I’ve been like heads down building my company for four years,
1:14:06 basically like creating other influencers, monetizing other influencers.
1:14:10 And for my brand, I just like kind of on autopilot.
1:14:11 I have a team.
1:14:11 I’ve got reels.
1:14:13 It’s not me, like you were saying.
1:14:17 And this year, I’m just like trying to get everything off my plate.
1:14:21 And I’m like going to just go super hard and just teach and just go back to my roots.
1:14:24 Because that’s how I started is like I blew up on LinkedIn, just teaching people.
1:14:26 I can’t wait to get back to it.
1:14:28 And you’ve been an inspiration because I’m like, damn, she’s so good at her videos.
1:14:31 Like I was like, I need to just do that.
1:14:37 No, you do make that your 2025 because you are such a badass.
1:14:40 I’m like, you just flip the camera up and start talking.
1:14:41 I guarantee that’s awesome.
1:14:42 Yeah, I can’t wait.
1:14:45 Okay, so a couple last questions here.
1:14:46 I know you’ve got a course.
1:14:48 I’m sure there’s so many people tuning in.
1:14:50 I know that you do webinars for your course.
1:14:53 You probably got a bunch of different sales funnels.
1:14:55 So just walk us through how you actually sell online.
1:14:57 What’s a good salesy type post?
1:14:59 Do you use many chat webinars?
1:15:00 Like what are you doing to sell?
1:15:01 What are your main ways to sell online?
1:15:07 So it’s funny because I guess this is like a sales tactic, but it’s actually true is we
1:15:09 I don’t let people just join.
1:15:13 Like you can’t book a call from my content, go to the link in bio, get on a call with the
1:15:15 team and get onboarded.
1:15:21 So I only open my program, which is called she sells at the end of masterclasses at the
1:15:22 end of webinars.
1:15:24 And I only open it for like 20 minutes.
1:15:28 And it’s a time where like I have girls that DM me all the time.
1:15:29 Hey, can you send me the link?
1:15:30 I want to join she sells.
1:15:32 And we’re like, nope, got to come to the masterclass.
1:15:33 Two reasons.
1:15:37 Number one, women are going to be successful when they know exactly what’s in it, when they’re
1:15:39 super hot, when they’re all going together.
1:15:43 And so I make them sit on a masterclass for an hour, learn the ins and outs of it for
1:15:44 free.
1:15:48 And then it’s like, okay, now that you know it, join and you only have 20 minutes to join.
1:15:49 So you got to, you got to join now.
1:15:51 So you’re like condensing their decision time.
1:15:54 They can’t talk themselves out of it.
1:15:57 If you only give them 20 minutes, they only have whatever’s fresh in their head.
1:15:58 They can’t go talk.
1:16:00 They can’t have their spouse talk them out of it.
1:16:01 They got to decide right there.
1:16:03 And they have to pay within that 20 minutes.
1:16:04 That’s genius.
1:16:04 Yes.
1:16:09 Like the reason is to, it is a sales tactic, but it also is more of a fulfillment reason
1:16:11 too, because they all get in at the same time.
1:16:15 The way that I do it is not cohort style, but kind of is.
1:16:19 And women love to do things with their girls.
1:16:21 Like we don’t even go to the bathroom alone.
1:16:26 So it’s like knowing that you’re alone on a call, but you’re also joining with all of the
1:16:30 girls at the same time from across the world is that’s how I built my community.
1:16:37 Like my community on social media is cool, whatever my community in my program is in
1:16:38 sane.
1:16:45 I will go to war with any other community in the world because my girls are so like they
1:16:46 bleed.
1:16:46 She sells.
1:16:47 It’s awesome.
1:16:49 That makes so much sense.
1:16:51 It’s like people want a shared identity.
1:16:53 They want to talk the same language.
1:16:55 They want to feel like they’re part of a group.
1:17:00 And so having them make that decision on the call together, it’s like they all like
1:17:04 kind of got like not hazed in a sorority together at the same time, but kind of, it’s like that
1:17:04 bond.
1:17:05 Yeah.
1:17:05 I love that.
1:17:10 When I tell them to like, I mean, when you’re purchasing anything and especially like getting
1:17:12 into sales, that’s something that’s scary.
1:17:15 And so that’s my time to kind of talk to them.
1:17:19 And a lot of it is like mental of like, okay, when a decision is scary, that’s how you know
1:17:20 it’s right.
1:17:21 Because that’s how you know you’re growing.
1:17:25 And so it’s scary for everybody on the call right now, but like if it’s calling you, like
1:17:26 I do invite you to join.
1:17:31 And it’s also just more fun for me because we get to onboard all the girls at the same
1:17:31 time.
1:17:33 There’s not people just trickling in.
1:17:37 We can kind of know like, okay, this group is going at this pace and this pace and this
1:17:37 pace.
1:17:38 So it is nice.
1:17:39 That’s really cool.
1:17:44 And are you collecting their emails and then retargeting them if they don’t sign up to join
1:17:45 the next webinar?
1:17:48 And like how cohesive is your strategy in that way?
1:17:49 Yeah.
1:17:51 So I have a whole team.
1:17:56 So I have a team of 22 and they handle a lot of like the backend emails, a lot of the sequences
1:18:01 and the stuff that I am not an expert on, but a lot of it is retargeting.
1:18:06 And what we found is that somebody doesn’t just join a class and then join at the end.
1:18:08 A lot of people join a couple classes.
1:18:10 And it’s funny because it’s the same class.
1:18:12 You would never think that.
1:18:15 But the way I run my webinars is super energetic.
1:18:16 I have caffeine.
1:18:18 I have mustaches.
1:18:19 I do role plays.
1:18:20 I handle objections live.
1:18:21 Like it’s fun.
1:18:22 And so I think people join for the energy.
1:18:26 But when they come like a couple of times, they’re like, okay, okay.
1:18:28 I finally feel like I’m going to do it now.
1:18:29 Okay, let’s do it.
1:18:29 Yeah.
1:18:30 It’s so true.
1:18:33 Some people need to go two, three times and then they’ll buy on the webinar.
1:18:35 And webinars are so smart people.
1:18:37 I’ve got lots of content on webinars, guys.
1:18:40 I interviewed Jason Fladline, Russell Brunson just on webinars.
1:18:46 So look those up if you’re interested because webinars to me are like the hottest way to sell
1:18:48 something low to high ticket.
1:18:49 It doesn’t even matter.
1:18:51 It’s just like the best way to sell in my opinion.
1:18:52 I agree.
1:18:54 And people are like, oh, why don’t you have sales?
1:18:55 You have so many sales girls.
1:18:57 Why don’t you have them take calls for you?
1:19:00 I’m the best sales girl to sell my product.
1:19:04 And I just, I genuinely feel like I was born for webinars.
1:19:07 I was born for it.
1:19:12 Like I’m sitting here selling one to many is so fun because the way I like to sell during
1:19:18 a webinar is I’ll take every sort of customer segment, every sort of target market of our
1:19:21 girls and overcome their objections.
1:19:24 So like you have the moms, but then you have the girls that are working part-time.
1:19:25 You have the students.
1:19:27 And so you’re like, well, if you’re a mom, I’m talking to you.
1:19:28 Handle that.
1:19:29 If you’re a student, I’m talking to you.
1:19:29 Handle that.
1:19:31 If you’re international, I’m talking to you.
1:19:31 Handle that.
1:19:33 So you kind of get the different angles.
1:19:35 You know what I think it is that I realized?
1:19:38 I think we’re just, we love sales so much.
1:19:40 And like webinar is like the ultimate sales challenge.
1:19:41 It is.
1:19:43 And so it’s just like so fun.
1:19:45 And it’s, it’s really fun.
1:19:47 I love to do what I look forward to them.
1:19:48 Same.
1:19:50 They’re my favorite part of the week.
1:19:51 Okay.
1:19:52 So last question.
1:19:58 You are living in Miami and you just moved there and you talked about the Miami effect.
1:20:00 So what is the Miami effect?
1:20:06 So the Miami effect is a pretty known thing, but it’s basically when you move to Miami, you
1:20:08 get hotter and richer.
1:20:10 No argument at all.
1:20:11 You just get hotter and richer.
1:20:14 And the reason is because everybody that lives in Miami.
1:20:18 And when I say Miami, I’m really talking about Brickell, which is where I live.
1:20:20 People are like, no, they’re not.
1:20:21 And I’m like, where are you from?
1:20:22 They’re like little Havana.
1:20:24 I’m like, okay, well, that’s not where I live.
1:20:25 So we’re talking about like Brickell, the city.
1:20:29 So where I live in Brickell, I mean, the rent is insane.
1:20:31 You buy a coffee.
1:20:31 It’s $15.
1:20:36 So like you have to make money in order to live there.
1:20:41 So everybody in the elevators, everybody at the coffee shops on your walks makes money
1:20:42 and is cool.
1:20:44 And in order to make money, you have to have good skill sets.
1:20:46 You have to have some sort of business.
1:20:47 You have to be a cool person.
1:20:51 So it’s like you move to Miami, you start meeting all these cool people.
1:20:54 Side note, Miami is the land of the fakers though.
1:20:58 So you kind of have to like, there are a lot of people that are like real awesome.
1:21:00 But that was one of the things where I first moved here.
1:21:02 I thought everybody was like so real.
1:21:03 They’re really not.
1:21:07 But for the most part, like people are making a lot of money.
1:21:10 People are walking outdoors because the weather is awesome.
1:21:12 Everybody here is so attractive.
1:21:13 So you need to become attractive too.
1:21:19 So it’s like you just rise to the level of the standard of Miami, which is your Miami effect.
1:21:20 Environment is so important.
1:21:22 People don’t realize it.
1:21:26 If something’s not working out for you, it could just be that you just need to move,
1:21:28 meet new people, get inspired.
1:21:34 Well, in Atomic Habits, that’s the biggest thing is you can change your habits like this
1:21:35 if you change your surroundings.
1:21:40 That’s why when somebody goes to rehab, they don’t send them right back to the same apartment,
1:21:44 same house, because you start associating your physical surroundings with your every single
1:21:44 daily habits.
1:21:49 So the best way to break your habits and literally change your life is to get into a different
1:21:51 house, a different apartment, or even better, a bigger city.
1:21:54 And I always like to explain it as like a fishbowl.
1:21:56 Like you’re a little fish in a normal fishbowl.
1:22:01 But then when you get a big fishbowl, you grow to fit the size of the bigger fishbowl.
1:22:05 And that’s why like a lot of people that have experienced something like this, if you can
1:22:11 relate, you go back to your hometown and you feel like a big fish and you’re like, oh my
1:22:14 gosh, like I don’t fit here anymore.
1:22:15 I don’t fit.
1:22:17 So and that’s the best thing to feel.
1:22:19 So Shelby, this has been such a great conversation.
1:22:23 Honestly, I feel like you spit so much game on sales.
1:22:25 I think everybody learns so much.
1:22:26 I end my show with two questions.
1:22:27 I ask all of my guests.
1:22:29 You can answer from the heart.
1:22:34 What is one actionable thing our young and profiters can do today to become more profitable
1:22:35 tomorrow?
1:22:36 Spirituality.
1:22:38 100% every single day spirituality.
1:22:43 When you have a why behind what you do, you’ll become more profitable and no matter what you
1:22:43 do.
1:22:45 And that was the biggest game changer for me.
1:22:51 As soon as I moved to Miami, weirdly enough, I got really into my faith as soon as I moved
1:22:56 here and what happened a year ago, my whole life completely.
1:23:01 And it’s not just because, you know, if you want to do that, then get in touch with God.
1:23:03 But I do genuinely think you just take more risks.
1:23:07 You know who you are when you truly believe in something that’s bigger than yourself.
1:23:11 So no matter what that is, like find out what kind of spirituality you like to go into
1:23:15 it and make sure that that’s the first thing you do in the morning and last thing you do
1:23:15 at night.
1:23:20 And don’t before that, don’t go on your phone, scroll on TikTok after you pray at night.
1:23:25 That’s like my biggest thing because your brain is so in like manifestation mode, dreaming
1:23:29 all this, you’re praying, and then you go to bed and that’s your subconscious mind.
1:23:32 So on a granular thing, spirituality will for sure.
1:23:33 Love that.
1:23:36 And what is your secret to profiting in life?
1:23:38 Energy.
1:23:43 I like to explain to people your energy will make your life better.
1:23:49 No matter if you’re a server, an accountant, if you’re in sales, a business owner, people
1:23:52 don’t want to be around you if you’re just sad and mopey all the time.
1:23:57 So the best thing that I do in order to be profitable in no matter what I do, whether that’s relationships,
1:24:03 business, even friendships, calling my mom, like people have these little interactions with
1:24:05 you and that makes up their story with you.
1:24:10 And their story with you determines what that relationship is going to be like and how much
1:24:12 you love your life because your life is all of your relationships.
1:24:18 So carrying that positive energy and genuine energy too with everything you do in life.
1:24:22 You are so positive and it kept the whole conversation so engaging.
1:24:25 I’d ask you a question and be like, oh my God, I can’t wait to answer this question.
1:24:28 I know this is so fun.
1:24:29 You have such good questions too.
1:24:31 I seriously enjoyed this.
1:24:31 Yeah.
1:24:32 Thank you so much, Shelby.
1:24:34 Where can everybody learn more about you and everything that you do?
1:24:35 Yeah.
1:24:37 So my Instagram is shelby.sap.
1:24:40 My TikTok is diary of a door-to-door saleswoman, which I will be changing.
1:24:44 So don’t go there, but go to my Instagram and then you can see my website link in my bio.
1:24:45 Amazing.
1:24:48 Thank you so much for joining us on the podcast.
1:24:49 Of course.
1:24:49 Bye, girl.
1:24:59 Well, guys, Shelby offered up such a wealth of great sales tips and strategies today.
1:25:03 So many things she said resonated with my own experience.
1:25:07 When you are in sales, like Shelby said, energy is your currency.
1:25:09 And some days you will have to fake it.
1:25:14 The customer doesn’t care if you are having a bad day or just broke up with your boyfriend
1:25:19 or if you’ve just received 20 no’s in a row before this meeting.
1:25:20 You have to rise above it.
1:25:27 And sometimes that means not behaving like a normal emotional human and maybe even acting
1:25:29 a bit like a psychopath.
1:25:32 And today’s buyers are not going to make it easy for you.
1:25:37 They have seen and heard it all and they hate being sold to.
1:25:40 So you have to be pretty savvy.
1:25:43 And I think Shelby had some ideas for how to do that.
1:25:46 Here are some of my favorite tips and tactics she shared.
1:25:50 When selling to an alpha male, make him think it’s his decision.
1:25:51 So true.
1:25:59 Women, on the other hand, like to buy comfort, answer their questions, take them through the
1:26:01 details and help them get comfortable.
1:26:08 Older people also respond to comfort, but younger buyers respond more to pain or pleasure, especially
1:26:09 pain.
1:26:15 Like Shelby said, it’s a lot easier to sell them pain killers than vitamins.
1:26:20 One more great sales tip, handle potential objections in advance.
1:26:21 Shelby calls this shutting doors.
1:26:27 And whether your buyer’s doors are time, price, fear, or something else, try to learn what
1:26:31 they are and shut them down early so they can’t open them back up later.
1:26:35 Ask the right questions and get them to make their own declarations.
1:26:42 Remember, people may believe nothing that comes out of a salesperson’s mouth, but they do believe
1:26:43 what they say themselves.
1:26:47 Well, thanks for listening to this episode of Young and Profiting.
1:26:51 If this conversation resonated with you today, be sure to share it with somebody who could use
1:26:54 a little extra light in their day.
1:26:57 And if you did enjoy this show, make sure you subscribe.
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1:27:04 listen to your podcasts.
1:27:09 In fact, if you guys like to watch your podcasts as videos, I’ve been doing a lot more in-person
1:27:10 content.
1:27:12 We’ve got more videos on YouTube than ever.
1:27:15 You can find all of our videos on Young and Profiting on YouTube.
1:27:16 Just search it.
1:27:17 You’ll find it.
1:27:21 You can also find me on Instagram at Yap with Hala or LinkedIn by searching my name.
1:27:22 It’s Hala Taha.
1:27:25 Of course, I got to shout out my Yap team.
1:27:27 I’ve got the best production team.
1:27:28 I appreciate your hard work.
1:27:33 This is your host, Hala Taha, aka the Podcast Princess, signing off.