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0:01:15 (upbeat music)
0:01:26 – Hey, Young and Profiters.
0:01:27 You’re listening to episode two
0:01:31 of the Yap Creator series presented by OpusCliff.
0:01:32 In this series, we’ll dive deep
0:01:35 into the art and science of content creation.
0:01:37 We’ll unpack the secrets of capturing attention
0:01:40 and the psychology that fuels audience connection.
0:01:43 Today, we’re going to talk about two foundational pillars
0:01:47 for success in content creation, trust and authenticity.
0:01:48 Let me tell you, these two elements
0:01:51 can make or break your connection with your audience.
0:01:54 Trust is the foundation of any strong brand
0:01:57 and authenticity is the glue that holds it all together,
0:02:00 the force that keeps people coming back for more.
0:02:01 In today’s episode, we’re diving deep
0:02:05 into why trust is essential to building a loyal community.
0:02:08 I’ll also share insights on how to maintain authenticity
0:02:11 in everything you create, as well as some practical ways
0:02:14 that you can nurture both trust and authenticity over time.
0:02:16 You’ll get a ton of actionable advice
0:02:18 and I’ll even sprinkle in some great tips
0:02:22 from previous Yap guests to bring these concepts to light.
0:02:25 (whoosh)
0:02:27 Building trust online is crucial,
0:02:28 especially when you don’t interact
0:02:30 with your audience face to face.
0:02:33 In a digital world, trust transforms casual followers
0:02:36 into loyal supporters and eventually customers.
0:02:39 But how do you establish that trust from behind the screen?
0:02:41 The first step is to get personal.
0:02:44 That means being open about meaningful details from your life.
0:02:46 Sharing who you are behind the polished brand
0:02:49 makes you relatable, approachable and real.
0:02:51 Rory Vaiden, a brand-building expert,
0:02:53 explained to me why this personal connection
0:02:55 is so essential for building trust
0:02:57 and why it even made him change his mind
0:02:58 about the people on social media
0:03:01 who like to post about their every meal.
0:03:06 How do you best build trust online?
0:03:09 We would say how do you best build trust offline?
0:03:12 Well, if you made a list, okay,
0:03:15 so let’s first start with the people,
0:03:17 if you made a list of the top 10 people
0:03:18 you trust in your life,
0:03:22 like what trust with your life or with your kids, right?
0:03:23 Like I’ve got two toddlers.
0:03:26 So like, if you go, who would you trust?
0:03:29 There’s a good chance that the people on that list,
0:03:31 like you would trust with your banking information
0:03:34 or your, you know, like that kind of stuff.
0:03:37 There’s a good chance you know those people intimately.
0:03:40 You know where they eat.
0:03:42 You know where they live.
0:03:43 You know about their families.
0:03:45 You know where they went to college.
0:03:46 You know where they grew up.
0:03:48 You know about their siblings.
0:03:51 You know, like, you know maybe some of their fears.
0:03:52 You know some of their mistakes.
0:03:54 Like someone where they’re,
0:03:56 you know those people intimately.
0:03:59 And when I first got on social media, I was like,
0:04:00 oh my gosh, this is so stupid.
0:04:03 Why is everyone posting pictures of what they ate?
0:04:07 And then I realized, oh,
0:04:10 because we trust people
0:04:13 that we know intimate details about their life.
0:04:17 Now that doesn’t mean you have to post pictures
0:04:19 of your kids, right?
0:04:21 There’s a lot of reasons why not to
0:04:23 and a lot of fears why not to.
0:04:27 AJ and I happened to do it a lot.
0:04:30 AJ is my wife and she’s also my co-founder
0:04:32 and the CEO of Brand Builders Group, by the way.
0:04:34 So she was a, we were business partners
0:04:35 in our former company that we sold.
0:04:36 And then we started Brand Builders Group,
0:04:39 just the two of us and she’s the CEO and I’m the CMO.
0:04:40 So, and we’re married, right?
0:04:41 So we got two kids.
0:04:44 So we post, we happen to share those things occasionally.
0:04:48 So we know, we trust people
0:04:51 that we know details about their life, right?
0:04:53 If I see someone walking down the alley,
0:04:54 I’ve never seen them before.
0:04:56 I don’t know anything about the person.
0:04:58 I don’t care what the color of their skin is.
0:05:00 If it’s dark and it’s an alley
0:05:02 and I’ve never seen the person before,
0:05:05 I don’t care if it’s a man, a woman, or their age.
0:05:08 Like I’m, my spidey senses go up.
0:05:11 I’m in an alley with a stranger.
0:05:12 And that’s how it is, right?
0:05:14 Who’s gonna buy from a stranger?
0:05:15 Nobody.
0:05:18 So they gotta know something about you.
0:05:20 Who else do we trust in real life?
0:05:24 Well, we tend to trust people who we learn from.
0:05:25 We trust pastors.
0:05:26 We trust lawyers.
0:05:27 We trust accountants.
0:05:28 We trust doctors.
0:05:30 We trust experts.
0:05:31 We trust people.
0:05:32 We trust teachers.
0:05:33 We trust mentors.
0:05:35 We trust counselors.
0:05:38 We trust people who teach us things.
0:05:42 Who else do we trust in real life?
0:05:44 We tend to trust people who entertain us, right?
0:05:46 They make us laugh.
0:05:48 They make us inspired.
0:05:52 They’re musical, right?
0:05:54 Like they’re, or they’re entertaining.
0:05:55 Like we see them on movies.
0:05:56 I mean, think about that.
0:05:59 We trust movie stars who we’ve never met,
0:06:00 but we see them a lot.
0:06:05 Who else do we trust in real life?
0:06:07 We tend to trust people who encourage us
0:06:09 in our darkest moments.
0:06:11 The people who were there when you had your heartbreak.
0:06:13 When you didn’t get into that school
0:06:15 or you didn’t get that job
0:06:16 or the relationship fell apart
0:06:19 or you lost money on that deal.
0:06:22 The people who were there to encourage us in that moment.
0:06:23 Those are the people we trust
0:06:25 ’cause it’s like we’ve been through the fire, right?
0:06:27 I know you, you got my back.
0:06:32 So when you roll that forward to online,
0:06:35 we have three simple strategies that we teach.
0:06:38 We call them the three E’s for content marketing.
0:06:43 First of all, educate, encourage and entertain.
0:06:46 Educate, encourage and entertain.
0:06:49 And in your, we typically say, you know,
0:06:51 your feed is should be more of what you do
0:06:54 and it should educate, encourage or entertain.
0:06:56 ‘Cause strangers don’t care about your cat.
0:06:58 The only people who care about your cat typically
0:07:02 are gonna be once they’re intrigued by you
0:07:04 and they want to kind of really vet you out.
0:07:07 That’s where they go, who are you really, right?
0:07:10 (whooshing)
0:07:13 Rory talks about how trust comes from familiarity.
0:07:15 People trust those that they feel that they know
0:07:17 whether that’s through personal stories,
0:07:19 inspiration or education.
0:07:23 His three E’s framework, educate, encourage and entertain
0:07:24 is a simple yet powerful way
0:07:27 to build genuine relationships online.
0:07:30 But how can we take this trust building to the next level?
0:07:32 Well, some of you are looking at it right now
0:07:34 and that’s video.
0:07:36 I learned about the trust building power of video
0:07:39 from Sean Cannell, an expert on video marketing
0:07:40 and the founder of Think Media,
0:07:43 which has over three million YouTube subscribers.
0:07:46 Sean explained why video gives your audience
0:07:48 an instant sense of connection and trust.
0:07:51 Something that other content types struggle to match.
0:07:57 We do business with people we know, like and trust
0:08:00 and video is the best trust accelerator.
0:08:01 If people read something you’ve written,
0:08:03 they can get to know you a little bit.
0:08:05 If they hear your voice on audio, that’s great.
0:08:06 They can get to know you better.
0:08:08 But if they see you, they can get to know you best.
0:08:13 And so it’s kind of like old school, small town rules.
0:08:16 You know, we meet someone face to face for coffee.
0:08:18 You want to connect with your real estate agent in person,
0:08:20 look them in the eye, firm handshake.
0:08:22 What are you wearing?
0:08:25 You know, all those details speak something about you.
0:08:29 While in video, we are able to now communicate
0:08:30 those details.
0:08:34 And, you know, Google released a report years ago
0:08:38 called I believe the 3-11-4 rule, which was,
0:08:42 or the 7-11-4 rule, which was people need to consume
0:08:47 seven hours of your content over 11 different touch points
0:08:49 on four different platforms.
0:08:52 And depending on your ticket price of your offer
0:08:56 for there to be trust for them to become a lead
0:08:58 or even more so a customer.
0:09:03 And so the power of video is you’re giving people a chance
0:09:08 to get to know you pre-sale, pre-sales conversation
0:09:10 and get to know your expertise,
0:09:12 get to know some of your values and your principles.
0:09:14 In fact, this would kind of be like a checklist
0:09:17 of the types of buckets of content that you’d want to have.
0:09:19 It’s why that, yes, you want to establish your authority.
0:09:21 So you have videos that, oh, this person knows
0:09:22 what they’re talking about.
0:09:24 You established something that’ll help them.
0:09:28 Wow, this person got me results in advance.
0:09:31 So their content helped me solve a micro problem
0:09:33 compared to the big problem they solve.
0:09:35 Dang, I could see they’re good for it.
0:09:36 They know what they’re talking about
0:09:39 and they’ve already helped me for free.
0:09:42 But one of the missing pieces is they also maybe hear
0:09:44 bits and pieces of your story.
0:09:47 This whole idea of we do business with people
0:09:49 with shared beliefs and we do business with people
0:09:50 with similar values.
0:09:53 And sometimes we just go so logical and so practical,
0:09:55 like, okay, cool, this person can help me with Facebook ads.
0:09:57 This person can help me with my taxes.
0:10:00 But when you start weaving in bits and pieces
0:10:01 of your story, they start saying,
0:10:03 oh, wow, this person has family values.
0:10:05 Oh, wow, this person is of a particular faith.
0:10:09 Wow, this person is even maybe kind of leans this way
0:10:11 or that way in their ideology.
0:10:13 These things, you don’t have to put politics
0:10:15 and religion in your content necessarily.
0:10:19 However, a lot of times those will polarize people to you
0:10:22 as well as away from you, but the people polarized to you
0:10:23 will be even better customers
0:10:25 and will resonate with you even deeper.
0:10:28 So over seven hours of content consumed,
0:10:32 a lot of different touch points could include a YouTube video
0:10:35 seeing you on Instagram, connecting you within the DMs,
0:10:37 landing on your website and watching an explainer video.
0:10:40 And four platforms also speaks to the power
0:10:43 of being on LinkedIn, seeing a deeper dive training,
0:10:45 listening to you on an audio podcast.
0:10:47 When you start, this is the whole vision
0:10:51 of content marketing is then all of this trust has been built
0:10:53 and this familiarity has been built.
0:10:56 And so for a lot of listeners, they might have a sales team
0:10:59 or somebody eventually jumps on a sales call.
0:11:01 You’re not dealing with, if you will, cold traffic
0:11:04 or even just slightly warm traffic at that point.
0:11:06 You’re actually maybe dealing with somebody who’s like,
0:11:09 listen, I already really know and trust you.
0:11:10 I’ve seen this content.
0:11:13 I’m just curious the details of your offer.
0:11:17 And so conversions increase, impact increases,
0:11:19 sales increases, and you grow your brand
0:11:21 wider and wider in the process.
0:11:28 As Sean highlights, video gives your audience a chance
0:11:31 to know you behind written or audio content.
0:11:33 With repeated exposure across platforms,
0:11:36 your audience builds familiarity and confidence
0:11:39 in your brand, setting the stage for deeper engagement.
0:11:40 We talked about trust.
0:11:42 Now let’s move on to authenticity.
0:11:44 One of the best ways to appear authentic
0:11:47 is to embrace what makes you unique.
0:11:49 By incorporating your own interests and quirks,
0:11:52 you’re bringing more than just a polished image
0:11:53 to your brand.
0:11:55 You’re showing the real person behind it.
0:11:59 Kat Norton, aka Miss Excel, is a perfect example
0:12:01 of how authenticity and unique interests
0:12:03 can make content stand out.
0:12:06 With over 1.1 million followers on Instagram
0:12:09 and 2.3 million followers on TikTok,
0:12:12 Kat has mastered the art of capturing attention.
0:12:14 She told me how combining her distinctive passions
0:12:16 for dancing and Microsoft Excel
0:12:20 created an unexpected level of engagement from her audience.
0:12:24 (whoosh)
0:12:27 So I was really just learning by the seat of my pants.
0:12:29 Like I would read the comments people had
0:12:30 and I’m like, okay, what do they like?
0:12:31 What do they not like?
0:12:35 But also for me, it really came down to authenticity.
0:12:37 So I love dancing.
0:12:39 I love helping people and I love Excel.
0:12:40 So I was like, what would happen
0:12:44 if I put all of that inside of one video, right?
0:12:46 And so for me, it was just an authentic expression.
0:12:47 It was cool.
0:12:50 It was something I had never seen anybody do before.
0:12:52 In terms of the Excel space especially,
0:12:54 but also in a lot of learning spaces,
0:12:57 integrating dance, which is more native to the TikTok app,
0:13:00 but then layering in the educational piece.
0:13:03 And that polarity is what really helped the videos take off
0:13:05 because if I just posted Excel tip videos,
0:13:07 people would have been like, cool,
0:13:09 like I don’t use Excel and moved on.
0:13:10 But so many people were commenting
0:13:13 ’cause they were like, what the heck is this girl doing?
0:13:15 She is dancing.
0:13:17 She’s doing the 2Z slide, left to right function.
0:13:19 What is going on here?
0:13:22 And that’s really what helped it go through the algorithm.
0:13:24 – And I want to laser in on something you said
0:13:26 and we’ll go deeper on it later.
0:13:27 But you talked about polarity.
0:13:30 So the fact that you combined two things
0:13:34 that are really uncommon together, dance and Excel,
0:13:35 it gets people talking.
0:13:37 It gets people like complaining.
0:13:39 Why are you dancing, talking about Excel?
0:13:41 Or some people will love it.
0:13:42 And it gets people talking,
0:13:44 which really drives everything up in the algorithm.
0:13:46 Do you have anything else to say about polarity
0:13:49 and how important it is for social media?
0:13:52 – I think it’s a combination of polarity
0:13:54 ’cause obviously you want like a healthy polarity, right?
0:13:56 You don’t just want to like say things to create polarity.
0:13:59 It needs to be something that’s actually authentic to you.
0:14:02 So I think that’s like the nuance when it comes to polarity
0:14:06 because a lot of people too, when it comes to polarity,
0:14:08 it’s important to make sure that your mental health
0:14:11 is in a great spot to be able to receive
0:14:14 what comes with polarity, right?
0:14:16 ‘Cause a lot of times when a video goes viral,
0:14:20 negative comments are the majority of the ones in there
0:14:22 because it’s being shown to people, it’s being shared,
0:14:24 and that’s just the nature of the planet, right?
0:14:25 We live on a polarity planet,
0:14:28 there’s always positive and negative forces.
0:14:31 So it comes to making sure that your nervous system
0:14:35 is able to hold the energy of what is going to come through
0:14:37 from creating the polarity in that content.
0:14:40 So for me, that was my biggest work.
0:14:42 I was constantly working on myself
0:14:44 ’cause easily some people get some negative comments
0:14:46 and it’ll take them out.
0:14:47 I’ll be like, I don’t wanna post anymore.
0:14:51 People think this or you start having certain limiting beliefs
0:14:53 that then are adjusting the actions you’ll take.
0:14:55 So instead of following your intuition,
0:14:56 you’re following the actions
0:14:59 that’ll please the most people or things like that.
0:15:01 So it’s really important to keep coming back to yourself,
0:15:03 come back to that intuition
0:15:06 and know that the polarity is going to trigger some people
0:15:07 and that’s okay.
0:15:10 That was a big lesson for me as a former people pleaser.
0:15:12 I had to let that go.
0:15:16 (air whooshes)
0:15:18 As Kat Norton points out here,
0:15:21 combining contrasting elements in a genuine way,
0:15:22 what she calls polarity,
0:15:25 can drive engagement and deepen connections.
0:15:27 It’s a reminder that showing up authentically
0:15:30 may involve quirks or unique passions,
0:15:32 even if they seem unconventional.
0:15:35 When people see those real unfiltered sides of you,
0:15:38 they’re drawn into the person behind the brand,
0:15:39 not just the content.
0:15:41 Okay, speaking of drawing audiences,
0:15:44 audiences today crave authenticity.
0:15:45 They want to connect with somebody
0:15:47 who feels real and relatable,
0:15:50 not just some polished, perfect version of you.
0:15:53 So don’t shy away from sharing the ups and the downs.
0:15:55 True engagement comes when you share your failures,
0:15:57 your setbacks, your lessons in progress.
0:16:00 These raw, unpolished moments build authenticity
0:16:03 and foster deeper connections with your followers,
0:16:06 making them feel like they’re part of your growth story.
0:16:08 At YAP and on my personal profiles,
0:16:10 we blend polished visuals with everyday moments.
0:16:13 So for example, one day I might put up a photo
0:16:16 from a photo shoot that was professionally shot,
0:16:18 and the next day might be a selfie that I shot myself.
0:16:21 And tools like OpusClip make it incredibly easy
0:16:24 to create these authentic moments on video.
0:16:27 So for example, you can set up a tripod in your house
0:16:29 to take b-roll of your day-to-day activities.
0:16:33 So think cooking, cleaning, taking meetings,
0:16:35 working on the computer, whatever it is,
0:16:37 you want to take this b-roll footage.
0:16:39 Then you can upload that into OpusClip
0:16:41 and it will pick out the most exciting,
0:16:42 actionable parts of the videos,
0:16:44 and you can ask it to turn it
0:16:46 into a day-in-the-life montage video.
0:16:49 It can create multiple video clips for you like this,
0:16:52 and then you have real behind-the-scenes glimpses
0:16:54 of your life that helps your audience feel
0:16:56 like they’re truly getting to know you.
0:16:58 So we’ve talked about sharing personal details,
0:17:00 the power of video, and not being afraid
0:17:02 to be our unique and authentic selves,
0:17:05 even if that means leaning into being imperfect
0:17:06 and unpolished.
0:17:09 Another aspect of building trust with your audience
0:17:12 and establishing authenticity is consistency.
0:17:15 And by consistency, I’m not really talking
0:17:17 about posting frequently, which is important,
0:17:20 but I’m talking about aligning with your brand voice
0:17:23 and visual identity across every piece of content.
0:17:26 This alignment helps you reinforce your brand message,
0:17:29 making it recognizable and trustworthy.
0:17:30 This starts with visual identity.
0:17:32 Elements like colors, fonts, and logos
0:17:34 can help you create a cohesive
0:17:37 and instantly recognizable look.
0:17:39 For example, by choosing a color palette
0:17:42 that aligns with your brand’s values and personality,
0:17:43 you can differentiate yourself
0:17:46 and promote instant recognition with your followers.
0:17:48 And when it comes to branding, less is more.
0:17:50 If you stick with two to three colors,
0:17:52 max and two fonts max,
0:17:54 the more clear and the more memorable you’ll be.
0:17:57 And I don’t think anybody I’ve ever interviewed
0:17:58 is more memorable than the marketing
0:18:00 and paid ads king, Rudy Moore.
0:18:02 See if you can tell why.
0:18:05 (whooshing)
0:18:07 – My whole office is red,
0:18:09 so we grew a 12,000 square foot office in Tampa,
0:18:11 50 staff, everyone had to wear red.
0:18:14 They got sent home if they didn’t come in uniform,
0:18:16 which was red, the whole office was red,
0:18:19 the Miami offices are red, the brands all red,
0:18:21 the cars are red, and people even asked me
0:18:23 when I’m on stage, yes, my underwear is red,
0:18:24 if you’re wondering.
0:18:26 So all in on the red, all in.
0:18:28 – What has that done for your brands?
0:18:32 Like, how do you feel like it’s impacted your brand?
0:18:35 – Yeah, I would love to say I came in
0:18:37 with this exact plan, that wasn’t the case,
0:18:39 but I think one thing that made me successful
0:18:41 is I’m really good at looking and learning
0:18:44 and adapting and pivoting and then going all in.
0:18:47 So I started my personal brand when really when COVID hit,
0:18:49 I really wanted to grow my personal brand
0:18:51 in the business marketing world.
0:18:53 I had already done it in the fitness space,
0:18:55 I had a million followers there,
0:18:57 I’ve sold out events around the world,
0:18:59 had a Facebook group, 60,000 members,
0:19:01 and I saw the power of it.
0:19:02 And so I was like, okay, well now I’m moving
0:19:06 into the business space, I’m gonna do the same here.
0:19:08 So I brought someone in to run my agency,
0:19:10 I went all in with my personal brand
0:19:14 and we did $25 million in three years,
0:19:16 just selling courses, programs, coaching programs,
0:19:19 so we grew it super fast.
0:19:21 And I’m saying that because I think half of that
0:19:23 is because I went all in on the personal brand
0:19:26 and the social and the organic and stages
0:19:27 and all of that sort of stuff.
0:19:29 So it had a massive impact,
0:19:31 I don’t think I would have grown it to that,
0:19:33 the amount so quickly without the brand.
0:19:36 But during that time, we were just getting feedback,
0:19:38 people were buying courses, programs.
0:19:40 I had this like red backdrop,
0:19:42 nothing as extreme as I’ve got now,
0:19:43 but it was kind of similar to this
0:19:44 if you’re watching on video.
0:19:48 And people loved it, they were buying 20K masterminds,
0:19:49 saying I don’t even know who this guy is,
0:19:51 I just see his red ads everywhere
0:19:52 and his branding’s on point
0:19:54 and he clearly knows what he’s doing.
0:19:55 Luckily, touch wood in this industry,
0:19:57 I do feel I know what I’m doing,
0:20:00 it’s not just a facade like half the industry
0:20:04 we live in is and then I was going to events
0:20:05 when COVID lockdown ended
0:20:08 and all the friends that I’d known for five years
0:20:10 were like, dude, I love your branding now,
0:20:11 like how you did this whole red thing.
0:20:13 So it just got more and more and more
0:20:15 and I’m a very extreme person,
0:20:18 which is sometimes great and sometimes terrible.
0:20:21 So I just went all in, all my cars are red,
0:20:22 I made all the offices red,
0:20:24 I made all the staff wear red
0:20:27 and I played into it and now it’s very recognizable
0:20:29 and I’m well known for it.
0:20:30 – Yeah, I mean, the thing, the key thing
0:20:32 is that you’re memorable, right?
0:20:34 There’s so many other influencers out there
0:20:37 and you do have the knowledge to back it up
0:20:39 and the credentials to back it up,
0:20:40 but the red just makes it memorable
0:20:42 and makes you stand out,
0:20:45 whereas other people might have to be seen 10 times
0:20:47 to be remembered, maybe just once
0:20:49 is all you need to be remembered.
0:20:54 Rudy’s story perfectly highlights
0:20:56 the power of bold consistent branding
0:20:58 and making a lasting impression.
0:21:00 His commitment to his signature red theme
0:21:04 ensures his brand is instantly recognizable and memorable,
0:21:06 cutting through the noise in a crowded space.
0:21:08 In addition to visual identity,
0:21:10 a strong brand voice is key
0:21:13 for forming meaningful connections with your audience.
0:21:15 Your brand should not only represent who you are,
0:21:17 but also reflect and mirror the qualities
0:21:19 and interests of your audience.
0:21:21 And that’s because people connect
0:21:22 with those who are similar to them,
0:21:25 people like people who are like themselves.
0:21:28 A strong brand voice means consistent core messages.
0:21:30 Choose a few messages that you repeat
0:21:32 in different forms over and over again
0:21:35 so that your audience remembers what you stand for
0:21:38 and how you can transform and improve their lives.
0:21:40 For example, I have core messages
0:21:42 that I repeat over and over again.
0:21:44 I remind my audience that you’re never too young
0:21:47 or too old to learn something new
0:21:49 and that if a gatekeeper tells you no,
0:21:50 find another path.
0:21:53 These are messages that resonate deeply with them
0:21:56 because it reflects their own values of resilience,
0:21:57 growth, and empowerment.
0:22:01 By weaving in these messages into my content consistently,
0:22:04 whether it be through interviews, stories, or videos,
0:22:06 I help my audience know what to expect from me
0:22:10 and I reinforce the value proposition that I have for them.
0:22:12 Someone else with a super consistent brand
0:22:15 is Gary Vaynerchuk, aka Gary V.
0:22:17 He told me that consistent branding
0:22:19 requires more than just an effective message.
0:22:23 It means knowing exactly who you’re targeting with that message.
0:22:29 Speaking of niches, let’s talk about creating audiences
0:22:31 because like you just talked about,
0:22:33 we can talk about multiple topics.
0:22:34 We don’t have to be scared about that.
0:22:36 We can be a dynamic person on social media,
0:22:39 which means we’re gonna be speaking to multiple audiences.
0:22:42 And you say we should develop cohorts with teats.
0:22:44 So what do you mean by that?
0:22:46 When I make content, sometimes I’m like,
0:22:48 this piece of content that I’m gonna make
0:22:53 is gonna hit 45 to 55 year old first time moms
0:22:58 on the coasts, more New York LA mentality
0:23:02 than London, then Ohio, then Spain.
0:23:04 So if I know that I’m doing that,
0:23:06 don’t you think that my adjectives
0:23:08 and analogies tone intent, right?
0:23:10 So I want everyone who’s listening
0:23:12 to start thinking about cohorts.
0:23:14 Gary, what do you mean?
0:23:16 I just do sneaker content, okay?
0:23:18 Well, there’s a lot of different niches
0:23:19 within sneaker content.
0:23:21 There’s people of high net worth like myself
0:23:25 who can afford bougie fucking Nike Air Force One
0:23:26 collaborations.
0:23:29 There’s other people who just like really like new balance.
0:23:31 Like there’s the Reebok movement
0:23:32 that I’m getting into as well.
0:23:33 Like there’s a lot going on.
0:23:35 Crocs, if you wanna expand it a little bit.
0:23:38 Like, do you know who you’re making this video for?
0:23:41 Because everyone’s going to vanilla.
0:23:42 I make content for entrepreneurs.
0:23:44 I’m like, okay, knock yourself out.
0:23:48 Imagine how much better a piece of content is
0:23:50 is that you know that you’re gonna make,
0:23:55 I’m gonna make content for first generation Hispanic
0:23:57 entrepreneurs that are 18 to 22,
0:24:00 that came from immigrant parents that came from Mexico.
0:24:02 I’m gonna use analogies.
0:24:03 I’m gonna make reference to rigatone.
0:24:05 I’m gonna talk about San Antonio culture.
0:24:08 Use their slang and however they talk.
0:24:09 100%.
0:24:11 It’s called relevance, everyone.
0:24:12 If you’re not relevant to someone.
0:24:15 The second I make a long tail bar stool joke,
0:24:18 every bar stool dude is like fuck yeah.
0:24:20 Like it’s not super complicated.
0:24:23 And so because everyone gets so boring in vanilla
0:24:24 right away, people say to me all the time,
0:24:26 they’re like, it’s a really funny thing
0:24:27 that I fuck people up with.
0:24:28 Like because I’ve been so consistent
0:24:29 and growing and all this stuff.
0:24:30 But then like sometimes they’ll be like,
0:24:32 but Gary, you say the same shit.
0:24:34 I’m like, what do you want me to make up stuff
0:24:35 I don’t believe in?
0:24:38 And then they go in, like if they stick with me
0:24:39 in that combo, they start to realize,
0:24:42 ah, I say the same macro 15 things,
0:24:44 but the way I say it differently
0:24:49 and how and where and what and to whom, that’s the game.
0:24:52 So cohorts, these are consumer segmentations.
0:24:54 In old television talk, it was,
0:24:57 we’re trying to reach the 18 to 35 year old demo.
0:25:00 I like to think and I know I’m looking at your crew a lot
0:25:00 ’cause I like doing that.
0:25:03 Like I like to think everyone in here
0:25:04 is at a point in their lives where they realize
0:25:07 an 18 year old person and a 32 year old person
0:25:09 are very different.
0:25:10 So like, but that was television.
0:25:12 You didn’t have the internet.
0:25:14 Now that we have the internet,
0:25:15 like everybody who’s listening
0:25:16 should be posting on Facebook.
0:25:18 It’s huge, still.
0:25:22 I’m getting 25, 30 year old audience on Facebook.
0:25:23 Now they’re on there like once in a blue moon
0:25:25 compared to whatever, but like,
0:25:27 like you should be relevant to Facebook audience.
0:25:30 You should be relevant to TikTok audience.
0:25:33 Snapchat’s culture’s slightly different than TikToks
0:25:35 and TikToks, like it’s all different rooms out there
0:25:37 and you wanna be in every room.
0:25:40 (air whooshing)
0:25:41 There you go, folks.
0:25:44 As Gary puts it so well, you have to be in every room.
0:25:46 To have an effective brand message today,
0:25:47 you’ve gotta be relevant.
0:25:50 You need to know your audience and every cohort
0:25:52 and segment within that audience.
0:25:53 But where do you start?
0:25:55 How do you identify the audiences
0:25:57 that your brand will resonate with most?
0:25:59 Well, sometimes it’s as simple as focusing
0:26:01 on one very important person.
0:26:04 A powerful strategy for building a loyal community
0:26:07 is creating content with a single person in mind.
0:26:09 You’re a deal audience member.
0:26:12 Business strategist Jasmine Star calls this approach
0:26:15 the foundation of building your kingdom online.
0:26:16 By focusing on one person,
0:26:19 you can transform your content from simple broadcasts
0:26:22 into genuine personal connections.
0:26:25 Here’s Jasmine Star explaining how focusing on one person
0:26:28 and engaging authentically helps to build
0:26:30 a thriving loyal community around your brand.
0:26:33 (air whooshing)
0:26:34 You know, if you say, “Jasmine,
0:26:35 I’m not getting direct messages.”
0:26:38 Great, go to accounts where you can follow stories
0:26:41 and if you can vote on something, vote on something.
0:26:43 And if you can respond to a story, respond to a story.
0:26:46 We want to create a little tiny kingdom
0:26:49 that is your business and your kingdom is up on a hill.
0:26:51 And then there’s the villagers down below.
0:26:53 How do people know that your kingdom is on the hill?
0:26:54 You have to go down into the village,
0:26:57 tell everybody, “Hey, there’s a kingdom up there.”
0:26:59 And how you do that is by giving comments,
0:27:02 liking photos, sending DMs so people become aware.
0:27:04 So we go back to niching down.
0:27:07 This makes creating content so much easier.
0:27:09 If you feel frustrated, if you feel overwhelmed,
0:27:12 if you feel like creating content is taking so much time,
0:27:14 let’s narrow it down to not just a niche.
0:27:15 I’m actually gonna upload this.
0:27:18 I’m gonna say create content for one person.
0:27:21 Who is your dream customer?
0:27:22 What do they want?
0:27:23 What do they need?
0:27:24 What solutions are they looking for?
0:27:27 And when you just think about that one person
0:27:29 and you create content and you speak to that one person,
0:27:31 I know it’s natural for you to think,
0:27:33 well, if I create content for one person,
0:27:34 well, then nobody else is gonna buy.
0:27:35 It’s actually quite the opposite.
0:27:37 Studies have shown and business owners will tell you
0:27:40 that when you speak to the 34-year-old farmer
0:27:42 who wears flannel and likes hard hats
0:27:46 and listens to country music and drinks Budweiser,
0:27:48 like you create content for that person,
0:27:50 it’s very different than creating content
0:27:52 for the 56-year-old Manhattan woman
0:27:55 with four children who vacations in the Hamptons.
0:27:58 When you create content for those two separate people,
0:27:59 it will resonate differently.
0:28:01 So the big question is,
0:28:04 do you know who your dream customer is?
0:28:05 Because when you build that out,
0:28:08 your content becomes entirely different.
0:28:11 And then you get to glooping back to Catherine’s question,
0:28:13 give engagement to who you think your dream customers are.
0:28:15 That is how you scale.
0:28:21 – As Jasmine shared, when you speak to one person,
0:28:23 you make every follower feel like they’re part of something
0:28:25 personal and valuable.
0:28:27 This approach allows you to move beyond surface level
0:28:29 engagement and build deep connections
0:28:31 that resonate on a community level.
0:28:33 To add even more value,
0:28:35 think about ways to create touch points with your audience
0:28:38 that go beyond the usual interactions.
0:28:40 In the last section of this episode,
0:28:42 we talked about creating content
0:28:44 that resonates with a specific audience.
0:28:46 Now let’s take a step further,
0:28:49 monetizing those relationships authentically.
0:28:51 But this isn’t selling for the sake of selling,
0:28:53 it’s about listening to your audience,
0:28:56 understanding their needs and creating products or services
0:28:57 that genuinely serve them.
0:29:01 This is where the creator economy has totally changed the game.
0:29:04 As Harley Finkelstein, the president of Shopify told me,
0:29:06 creator entrepreneurs have a unique advantage.
0:29:08 They’re not starting with a product
0:29:10 and then searching for customers.
0:29:13 Instead, they’re building engaged audiences first
0:29:16 and then developing products that align directly
0:29:18 with their community’s interests.
0:29:20 Harley shared some great insights
0:29:22 on how brands both big and small
0:29:25 are leveraging personalization to connect with their audiences.
0:29:28 Even major companies like Haynes and Oreo
0:29:29 are creating customized products
0:29:32 and engaging more directly with their consumers.
0:29:34 But this approach isn’t just for big brands.
0:29:36 Creators have a unique opportunity
0:29:39 to build close, authentic relationships with their followers
0:29:42 and offer products that reflect those connections.
0:29:44 Here’s Harley explaining how this shift
0:29:46 towards creator-driven businesses
0:29:48 is creating a new wave of entrepreneurship.
0:29:55 So actually, I think this idea of the creator economy,
0:29:56 it’s just the economy,
0:29:59 except that there’s this really cool advantage,
0:30:02 which is that you have a built-in audience for your products.
0:30:03 And maybe third of all,
0:30:05 just sort of on the larger companies,
0:30:08 a lot of companies either never sold direct to consumer.
0:30:10 If you think about the CPGs, for example,
0:30:12 Haynes Ketchup has a store on Shopify.
0:30:14 Haynes Ketchup never sold direct to consumer.
0:30:16 Haynes would sell through a grocery store.
0:30:18 But there’s some people that really care about,
0:30:19 like they’re obsessed with Ketchup.
0:30:22 They love Ketchup and they want to buy direct from Haynes,
0:30:23 called Haynes at Home.
0:30:25 And for the first time ever,
0:30:28 those big brands are actually having direct relationship,
0:30:29 whether it’s through social media,
0:30:30 I don’t remember, years ago,
0:30:33 the Wendy’s account was like, had a real personality.
0:30:36 And a lot of these social media accounts of big brands
0:30:37 actually have personalities to the extent
0:30:40 that their fans, their consumers,
0:30:42 want to interact with them.
0:30:44 And so you have a couple of things happening
0:30:44 with the big companies.
0:30:46 One is the big companies are beginning to act
0:30:48 a lot more entrepreneurial.
0:30:50 They want to have a direct relationship with any consumer.
0:30:52 But also, they’re experimenting.
0:30:53 They’re trying new things.
0:30:54 A couple of years ago,
0:30:55 one of the cool things I thought that Oreo did,
0:30:57 which is owned by Mondalys,
0:31:00 is you can put, as a Christmas gift or holiday gift,
0:31:04 you can put, you can personalize Oreos.
0:31:07 So there’s someone in your life that loves Oreos.
0:31:10 You can make a, you know, Harley’s, you know,
0:31:13 Harley’s Oreos, Happy Holiday, something like that.
0:31:14 That is really interesting.
0:31:15 So when you come,
0:31:16 so each of those things on the road are kind of interesting.
0:31:18 When you combine those things,
0:31:20 you see big companies acting very entrepreneurial.
0:31:24 You think you see creators, just on the creator side,
0:31:26 think about these artists, like these musicians,
0:31:29 people like, you know, Drew House
0:31:31 with Justin Bieber’s brand that he built,
0:31:34 or OVO would Drake has built.
0:31:36 You see these traditional, you know,
0:31:38 what would be a traditional musician,
0:31:40 completely expand their scope
0:31:43 of what they’re actually building and selling and creating.
0:31:46 When I used to go to a concert when I was a kid,
0:31:47 I would go to the merch table.
0:31:50 It was usually some sort of like screen print
0:31:53 on some basic t-shirts, like Fruit of the Loom t-shirt.
0:31:54 And it said like, I don’t know,
0:31:57 the Rolling Stones on the back was a bunch of tour dates.
0:31:58 Well, now you go to these concerts
0:32:00 and you go to like a Drake concert
0:32:01 and they’re selling like Canada Goose,
0:32:04 OVO collaboration, collab jackets.
0:32:07 Or you go to, you know, a Pharrell concert
0:32:10 and you see some of the crazy stuff he’s selling that like,
0:32:13 you know, he’s selling like cosmetics at the concert
0:32:14 that he’s created himself.
0:32:16 So big companies are actually entrepreneurial.
0:32:18 Artists are now actually expanding
0:32:23 from just being artistic creators around music
0:32:25 and art and film to actually creating product.
0:32:28 And you can even look at the actors and actresses
0:32:29 that have done.
0:32:31 And then of course you have just more people
0:32:33 generally becoming entrepreneurs
0:32:37 and more people saying, I make amazing chicken soup
0:32:39 and now I’m gonna sell that chicken soup to the world.
0:32:41 And I think when you combine all those things,
0:32:42 you see people that traditionally
0:32:44 had not entered entrepreneurship doing so
0:32:46 and they’re scaling at a pace
0:32:48 that just has never been seen before.
0:32:50 And that’s why that’s a long answer
0:32:51 to a very short question,
0:32:54 but that’s why I think there’s an entrepreneurial
0:32:55 renaissance happening.
0:33:00 – Like Harley said, brands that connect
0:33:01 with their audience on a personal level
0:33:04 can build something much more impactful
0:33:06 than just a business transaction.
0:33:08 By focusing on what their community truly values,
0:33:10 creators can launch products
0:33:12 that feel like a natural extension of their brand,
0:33:16 fostering loyalty and long-term engagement.
0:33:17 And that’s a wrap for episode two
0:33:20 of the Yap Creator series presented by Opus Clip.
0:33:23 Today we explored why trust and authenticity
0:33:25 are critical to building a loyal audience
0:33:28 and creating content that connects on a deeper level.
0:33:31 Remember, audiences resonate most with the real you,
0:33:34 not the polished perfected facade of you.
0:33:35 It’s about embracing your quirks,
0:33:36 sharing your journey
0:33:38 and letting your personality shine through.
0:33:40 We also talked about how video
0:33:43 is one of the most powerful tools for building trust
0:33:46 and that’s where Opus Clip can be a total game changer.
0:33:49 Opus Clip uses advanced AI to help you extract
0:33:52 the most authentic and engaging moments from your content.
0:33:55 Whether it’s a heartfelt story, a quirky interaction
0:33:58 or an insightful tip, Opus Clip makes it easy
0:34:01 to transform those moments into shareable clips
0:34:03 that can truly connect with your audience.
0:34:06 Are you ready to take your content to the next level?
0:34:08 Then try Opus Clip for free
0:34:11 and see how it can elevate your storytelling.
0:34:14 Head to opus.pro/clipanything to get started today.
0:34:18 That’s opus.pro/clipanything to get started today.
0:34:19 Thanks for tuning in
0:34:21 and I can’t wait to connect with you all again
0:34:23 for episode three
0:34:24 where we’ll continue to unlock
0:34:26 the secrets of content creation.
0:34:29 (upbeat music)
0:34:31 (upbeat music)
0:34:34 (upbeat music)
0:34:36 (upbeat music)
0:34:40 [MUSIC PLAYING]
0:34:49 [BLANK_AUDIO]

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0:01:12 in the show notes or at youngandprofiting.com/deals.
0:01:16 – When you open your mouth, that is your brand
0:01:19 because what you say is what is reflected
0:01:20 about your business.
0:01:23 Emotion creates devotion and storytelling.
0:01:25 That’s what makes people feel something.
0:01:27 How do you infuse storytelling
0:01:30 to get people emotionally attached to you?
0:01:31 – The three R’s to be remembered.
0:01:34 The first R is, so if you constantly need
0:01:36 to practice your public speaking
0:01:38 just to feel good about yourself,
0:01:39 that’s not a public speaking issue.
0:01:41 That’s a self-esteem issue.
0:01:43 For a lot of people, the fear doesn’t come
0:01:44 from the speaking itself.
0:01:46 It’s how they perceive themselves.
0:01:48 – How can you tell if people are engaged or not?
0:01:50 – If you want to transport people
0:01:52 somewhere in your story,
0:01:54 one of the most powerful words you can use is.
0:02:02 (upbeat music)
0:02:13 – Yeah fam, welcome back to the show.
0:02:16 And today we are focused on public speaking.
0:02:18 Now communication, in my opinion,
0:02:20 is the backbone of entrepreneurship.
0:02:23 Whether you are on stage, in the boardroom,
0:02:25 or simply on a Zoom meeting,
0:02:27 you really got to know how to communicate
0:02:29 if you want to be a successful entrepreneur.
0:02:32 So joining us today to talk about this is Yastar Khan.
0:02:35 He’s a public speaking coach with years of experience
0:02:37 and helping individuals and organizations
0:02:41 improve their ability to connect, persuade, and influence.
0:02:44 Yastar Khan is the founder of Speak Like a CEO
0:02:45 and he’s going to give us a masterclass
0:02:48 on how to be a more effective speaker.
0:02:51 We’re going to learn about pacing, volume, storytelling,
0:02:53 body language, and so much more.
0:02:55 I can’t wait to dive into it.
0:02:56 So without further delay,
0:03:00 my conversation with Yastar Khan starts now.
0:03:03 Yastar, welcome to Young and Profiting Podcast.
0:03:05 – I’m really excited to be here, Hala.
0:03:08 And you might not know how I met you the first time
0:03:10 or how I found out about you.
0:03:11 It wasn’t about LinkedIn.
0:03:14 I was looking up how to start a podcast
0:03:17 and I stumbled on a speech of yours from MIT
0:03:19 from years ago.
0:03:21 And I thought it was going to be about
0:03:22 how to start a podcast,
0:03:25 but it ended up being about your personal story.
0:03:27 I watched the entire hour of it.
0:03:28 – Oh my God.
0:03:29 – And then I found you on LinkedIn.
0:03:31 And I still remember you had a quote in there.
0:03:33 You said something like,
0:03:35 “At the time I wasn’t young and profiting.
0:03:36 “I was young and pissed.”
0:03:39 And it just made me laugh in the moment.
0:03:41 And there was a connection I felt.
0:03:42 That’s why I went and looked you up on LinkedIn.
0:03:44 So it’s a pleasure to be here.
0:03:45 – Oh wow, what a compliment.
0:03:48 I mean, from somebody who’s such a great public speaker,
0:03:51 the fact that you listened to a whole hour of my speech,
0:03:52 that’s amazing.
0:03:54 That was one of my first speaking things
0:03:56 that I ever really did in front of a lot of people.
0:03:57 – And it worked.
0:03:58 You got my attention.
0:03:59 – Thank you.
0:04:03 So Yasser, you are an expert on public speaking
0:04:05 and this show is all for entrepreneurs.
0:04:09 And in today’s age, a lot of our communication is written.
0:04:12 So we’re writing in texts, we’re writing in emails,
0:04:14 we’re writing in DMs.
0:04:17 Why is verbal communication still so important,
0:04:19 especially for business owners now?
0:04:22 – Verbal communication is how you show up to the world.
0:04:26 When you open your mouth, that is your brand.
0:04:27 And you’ll be shocked, Hala.
0:04:28 In fact, you probably won’t be shocked
0:04:30 with the amount of people you talk to.
0:04:32 How many people are not careful
0:04:34 of the words that come out of their mouth?
0:04:37 Because what you say is what is reflected
0:04:38 about your business.
0:04:41 So if you knew that, wouldn’t you be a lot more careful
0:04:42 of what came out of your mouth,
0:04:43 what you said, what you wrote?
0:04:46 That’s why just having that finesse on your words,
0:04:49 making sure when you’re on stage, people remember you,
0:04:50 it’s more important than it’s ever been.
0:04:52 – And aside from speaking on stage,
0:04:54 because entrepreneurs, not all of us
0:04:57 are really gonna be on stage.
0:04:59 But there’s transferable skills
0:05:00 when it comes to public speaking.
0:05:02 Can you talk to us about that?
0:05:04 – Yeah, the definition of public speaking
0:05:05 isn’t just being on stage,
0:05:07 it’s talking to someone at some time.
0:05:08 If you are talking to someone,
0:05:10 which I imagine if your listeners are listening,
0:05:11 they’re talking to people, right?
0:05:14 Unless they’re locked in a basement somewhere,
0:05:15 you are going to do public speaking.
0:05:17 And every single time you do that,
0:05:19 you are representing yourself and your brand.
0:05:22 What do you want people to interpret about you?
0:05:23 How do you want them to perceive you?
0:05:25 How do you want them to perceive your company?
0:05:27 All of that is public speaking.
0:05:30 So you wanna treat the stage as your entire life.
0:05:32 Every single place you go, you’re performing.
0:05:34 So wouldn’t you wanna put up the best performance
0:05:35 wherever you go?
0:05:36 I think the answer is yes.
0:05:39 – I was really surprised to find out
0:05:42 because you come across very confident.
0:05:44 I was very surprised to find out that as a child,
0:05:47 even as a young adult, you were really introverted.
0:05:49 You were really shy.
0:05:53 You really struggled making connections and relationships.
0:05:55 And it wasn’t until your adulthood
0:05:56 that you actually cracked the code
0:05:58 when it came to public speaking.
0:06:01 So talk to us about how public speaking
0:06:03 is not something you’re necessarily born with
0:06:07 and share your story about how you became a public speaker.
0:06:09 – Yeah, I was the least likely person
0:06:11 to become a public speaker.
0:06:13 In fact, if you were in my classroom
0:06:15 when I was in third grade,
0:06:17 you would have seen me run to the bathroom
0:06:18 right before my presentation
0:06:20 and you wouldn’t see me come back out.
0:06:22 And that was a thing people knew.
0:06:23 Hey, Yasser’s turn, he’s not gonna show up.
0:06:25 And I started failing.
0:06:27 So it was really affecting my education.
0:06:29 And as I grew up, eventually my parents said,
0:06:32 this kid is just, he doesn’t say anything in meetings.
0:06:34 He doesn’t say anything in family gatherings.
0:06:35 What do we do?
0:06:36 Let’s send him to a different country.
0:06:38 That’ll open him up.
0:06:39 So now they spent thousands of dollars
0:06:40 sending me to Canada.
0:06:43 The only thing that opened up was their wallet
0:06:44 because I did not learn a thing.
0:06:46 I came all the way here in Canada.
0:06:49 I was still introverted, but now I had no friends.
0:06:53 So eventually you become so lonely
0:06:55 and the pain of it grows so much
0:06:56 that you become desperate.
0:06:57 You’re willing to do anything.
0:07:00 So I just Googled, how do I make friends?
0:07:00 That’s what I wanted.
0:07:02 I wanted friends.
0:07:03 And the first thing that popped up
0:07:05 was something called a Toastmasters Club.
0:07:06 Have you heard of that before?
0:07:07 – Yes, of course, of course.
0:07:09 – Okay, well, a kid from Pakistan, I hadn’t heard of it.
0:07:11 I thought it was one of two things.
0:07:13 One, a place where people sit in a circle
0:07:14 and make a toast or two,
0:07:15 a place to get a grilled cheese sandwich.
0:07:17 That’s what I thought it was gonna be.
0:07:21 So I show up, I walk in and there’s 35 people
0:07:23 all in their mid fifties.
0:07:25 And it says, Toastmasters, learn public speaking.
0:07:27 No, this is not what I signed.
0:07:29 I came here to make, no, no, no, no, no.
0:07:31 Public speaking, that’s not my,
0:07:34 I took the fastest U-turn you’ve ever seen in your life.
0:07:35 But then before I could leave,
0:07:37 the woman who was hosting the club
0:07:39 when it was Karen Knight, she saw me.
0:07:40 And she said, Hey, we’ve got a new guest.
0:07:42 Come on up and introduce yourself.
0:07:45 So there I am, new country, I don’t know anyone.
0:07:48 And you would have seen me sweating,
0:07:51 walking all the way to the front of the stage.
0:07:52 To this day, I don’t know what I said.
0:07:54 I blurt out four words.
0:07:55 I sat back down and I said, Yasser,
0:07:57 this is why you never leave the house.
0:07:59 This is why you should just get yourself a PlayStation.
0:08:01 And that’s it, that’s your personality.
0:08:03 But then Karen came back to the stage
0:08:05 and she looked at me and said, Yasser,
0:08:06 you’re in a new country.
0:08:07 You don’t know anyone.
0:08:09 This is the first time you’ve spoken
0:08:10 in front of an audience.
0:08:11 Congratulations.
0:08:13 And then everyone started clapping.
0:08:14 Now I’m new, so I’m thinking,
0:08:15 is this a Canadian thing?
0:08:16 I’ve heard these people are nice,
0:08:18 but did they listen to what I said?
0:08:20 ‘Cause that was pretty bad.
0:08:22 And afterwards, I’m still beating myself up over it.
0:08:24 And I’m gonna walk out the room,
0:08:25 never coming back.
0:08:28 And she just catches me right before I do.
0:08:30 And she says, Yasser, are you coming back?
0:08:34 And Hala, what do you say when we don’t want to say yes?
0:08:35 We also don’t want to say no.
0:08:36 We’re always in the middle.
0:08:39 I’ll think about it, I’ll let you know.
0:08:41 I’ll check my horoscope, ask my grandma,
0:08:43 check if the universe is perfectly aligned.
0:08:44 So I said all those things.
0:08:46 And she said, Yasser, when I was your age,
0:08:47 I was the exact same.
0:08:49 I was really afraid of public speaking too.
0:08:51 But if you come back next week,
0:08:54 I think one step at a time, it might change your life.
0:08:55 Now I didn’t have friends, Hala.
0:08:57 So I said, okay, you’re my only friend.
0:08:58 I’ll come back, why not?
0:09:00 So I came back the week, the next week,
0:09:02 and eventually she says, Yasser, you’re making progress.
0:09:05 You want to try out that public speaking contest?
0:09:07 Contest, are you trying to kill me here?
0:09:09 I’m just here to make friends.
0:09:11 And I won the contest.
0:09:13 And that’s where it clicked, Hala,
0:09:15 that this is not my personality.
0:09:18 It’s a skill that I did not have.
0:09:20 Months later, I had done 40 workshops.
0:09:23 I became a TEDx speaker 10 years from that moment.
0:09:25 Now I’m coaching some of the biggest CEOs in the world.
0:09:27 So how did all this happen?
0:09:28 Complete accident.
0:09:31 And you just shared how awesome
0:09:33 your storytelling capabilities are
0:09:35 because I was thoroughly engaged in that story.
0:09:38 So we’re gonna pick your brain on that later on.
0:09:40 So something I just wanted to talk about
0:09:43 is the importance of somebody’s voice, right?
0:09:46 I am dating right now.
0:09:49 And there’s literally people where I’ll hear their voice
0:09:52 and I’m like, I just can’t deal with that.
0:09:55 Their voice is not something I’m attracted to.
0:09:59 So talk to us about how people can actually be attracted
0:10:01 to one’s voice.
0:10:03 – This is a topic very personal to me, Hala,
0:10:05 because a big reason why I got into public speaking
0:10:08 was all the rejection that I got in my dating life.
0:10:11 I still remember I went on this one date.
0:10:13 And first of all, it was extremely hard for me
0:10:15 to get a match at all on Tinder.
0:10:17 It was just, I could not get.
0:10:18 So when I finally got it, I was like,
0:10:20 “Hey, she has two eyes and a mouth and ears.
0:10:22 I’ll take it.”
0:10:24 So I showed up on the date.
0:10:28 I’ll never forget, she met me, she looked at me up and down
0:10:31 and we sat down, within the first two minutes,
0:10:34 she looked at me said, “Yeah, this is not really working.
0:10:36 Listen, I’m just gonna go.”
0:10:37 – Wow.
0:10:41 – Can you imagine being lonely, not getting any validation
0:10:43 and just being hit with that?
0:10:46 I was just sitting there by myself the entire day,
0:10:49 sinking in on just hating myself,
0:10:50 loathing myself the entire time.
0:10:52 And I couldn’t figure out what it was.
0:10:55 And after I got on a lot of the other days,
0:10:57 they said, “Some of the days I even asked for feedback,
0:10:58 believe it or not.”
0:11:00 I said, “Hey, there’s a lot of curiosity.
0:11:01 Why don’t you wanna?”
0:11:04 But you asked her, “You sound like you’re trying too hard.
0:11:06 You sound way too eager.
0:11:07 You talk too much.
0:11:09 You’re trying to impress me with your stories
0:11:11 and it’s just too much information, too fast.”
0:11:13 Just slow it down a little bit.
0:11:15 And when you were talking with the voice,
0:11:16 sometimes what happens with people
0:11:19 is they’re so eager to impress that they talk a lot.
0:11:21 And when they talk a lot, they talk fast.
0:11:23 They mumble, they go high pitch,
0:11:25 and they’re trying to get your approval.
0:11:27 And because of that, you could almost sense it
0:11:28 and you back off a little bit.
0:11:30 Even now I talk on the faster side,
0:11:31 but I’ve had to train myself,
0:11:34 “Hey, slow it down and be more sure
0:11:36 of what you’re talking about.
0:11:39 Be as sure as you are as the color of your hair.”
0:11:40 I used to say things like,
0:11:41 “Hey, so this is what I did.
0:11:42 Isn’t that interesting?
0:11:45 Don’t you find that I’m seeking your approval?”
0:11:47 But if I said, “I went to this thing.
0:11:49 I did this thing and that’s how I feel,
0:11:51 I’m so sure of the fact that I’m talking about.
0:11:52 I don’t question myself.”
0:11:53 But sometimes you can feel it.
0:11:54 You can probably tell me more
0:11:56 about your dating experience than I can.
0:11:56 Maybe that’s what you felt.
0:11:58 Who knows?
0:11:59 – Yeah, 100%.
0:12:01 Some of it is just like the tonality.
0:12:03 I don’t wanna listen to that voice forever.
0:12:04 You know what I’m saying?
0:12:07 Like the tonality, like all of it.
0:12:08 I just feel like people don’t realize
0:12:12 how much voice impacts attraction
0:12:15 and your perception of somebody’s confidence
0:12:16 and all that stuff.
0:12:17 – Well, think of it like this.
0:12:19 Take your favorite song, Hala.
0:12:22 Pull up the lyrics and just read the lyrics.
0:12:23 How good will the song sound?
0:12:24 – Not great, no.
0:12:25 – Terrible.
0:12:26 But that’s what most people do with their voice.
0:12:28 They just show up and say the words.
0:12:30 They don’t use their tonality at all.
0:12:32 And they don’t realize how annoying it might be
0:12:33 until they go on a date with you
0:12:34 and then they’d realize,
0:12:36 “Hey, why isn’t she texting me back?
0:12:37 Maybe I’m annoying.”
0:12:39 – Okay, we got a little side check.
0:12:42 But let’s talk about some of the common fears
0:12:45 and anxieties that people have with public speaking.
0:12:46 – Where do you want me to start?
0:12:49 There’s all kinds of public speaking anxiety.
0:12:50 Most of the ones that I feel,
0:12:53 they have nothing to do with public speaking itself.
0:12:56 They have everything to do with how we view ourselves.
0:12:59 One of the most influential coaches I’ve ever had in my life.
0:13:02 He said, “A lion doesn’t need to sharpen his claws
0:13:04 to know he’s the king of the jungle.”
0:13:06 He just knows he is.
0:13:09 So if you constantly need to practice your public speaking
0:13:12 just to feel good about yourself,
0:13:13 that’s not a public speaking issue.
0:13:15 That’s a self-esteem issue.
0:13:17 And I realized this when for four years
0:13:19 I’m learning all these public speaking techniques
0:13:21 and I’m realizing, “Hey, I’m on stage.
0:13:22 I’m doing well.
0:13:24 Why don’t I feel more confident?
0:13:26 Why do I still feel less confident?
0:13:29 I just have less filler words now.”
0:13:32 And the missing ingredient was I did not have self-esteem.
0:13:33 I didn’t have self-confidence.
0:13:34 I didn’t believe in myself.
0:13:36 So for a lot of people,
0:13:38 the fear doesn’t come from the speaking itself.
0:13:40 It’s how they perceive themselves
0:13:44 and therefore project what other people feel about themselves.
0:13:46 I guarantee you, if someone feels good about themselves,
0:13:48 they’re not afraid what other people think about them
0:13:50 because their opinion about themselves
0:13:52 is more important than the opinions of other people.
0:13:53 So that’s one.
0:13:55 And two, it’s just a skill gap.
0:13:57 If you’ve never done something before,
0:13:59 it’s going to be inherently scary.
0:14:00 And if you ask the average person,
0:14:03 how often do you do public speaking twice a year,
0:14:05 once a year, I do one meeting,
0:14:09 of course it’s nerve-wracking because we just don’t do it.
0:14:11 – So how did you yourself get better at public speaking?
0:14:13 What were the steps that you took?
0:14:15 – One of my ex-girlfarms actually really helped me out with this.
0:14:18 I don’t know why we’re going on this dating direction.
0:14:22 I used to get really, really nasty comments
0:14:25 about my teeth in the comments, like really, really bad.
0:14:26 So I have fine teeth now.
0:14:28 Thank you and Vizaline please sponsor me.
0:14:31 But before that, I had these crooked teeth in the front.
0:14:34 And all of the comments were just about my teeth.
0:14:36 And they were so disheartening.
0:14:36 “Hello, I would wake up.
0:14:39 I would not want to post a video, check my comments.
0:14:41 I didn’t want to make any content.”
0:14:45 And she said, “Yasser, are you doing this for praise?
0:14:47 Or are you doing it because you’re passionate about it?
0:14:50 You have to do this for purpose over praise.
0:14:52 Purpose over praise.”
0:14:53 And that’s when I realized,
0:14:54 if I really want to talk about this stuff,
0:14:57 if I’m really passionate, I have to go through that.
0:14:59 I have to go through it with grit.
0:15:00 I don’t have to worry about getting the praise,
0:15:02 getting the compliments, just do it because I want to do it.
0:15:05 And once I became more passionate about it,
0:15:07 I forgot about what they thought of me.
0:15:09 My message was reaching the right people.
0:15:11 That’s why I continued on this journey.
0:15:12 – And I’m glad that you continued on this journey
0:15:16 because now you have over a million followers on TikTok,
0:15:18 which is really, really impressive.
0:15:19 You seem surprised about that.
0:15:22 Did you not know you made a million followers on TikTok?
0:15:24 – 2.4 on Instagram.
0:15:25 That’s my main platform.
0:15:26 – Oh, got it.
0:15:28 Three million across all platforms.
0:15:30 Three million across all platforms.
0:15:31 So I was checking out your TikTok before.
0:15:33 That’s why I knew that number.
0:15:35 So you’re crushing it on social media,
0:15:37 but I was really surprised to find out
0:15:38 that it took you five years
0:15:42 to get your first 1,000 followers on YouTube.
0:15:43 – Right.
0:15:44 – So what changed?
0:15:45 What happened?
0:15:47 How did you go from struggling content creator
0:15:51 to now just dominating on Instagram and TikTok?
0:15:52 – Yeah, that’s the other thing.
0:15:54 I’m really passionate about talking about content
0:15:56 just because I’ve learned a lot about it.
0:15:58 Before we go into YouTube, Hala,
0:16:00 my Instagram has 2.4 million right now.
0:16:04 I created that account from scratch in May of 2023.
0:16:05 – Wow. – From scratch.
0:16:06 That’s a year and a half, right?
0:16:07 – Incredible.
0:16:09 – And TikTok, I think, was a year and a half.
0:16:12 So on YouTube, when I started, I didn’t have confidence.
0:16:15 I was just vlogging my daily experiences
0:16:16 as a student in Canada.
0:16:19 I would talk about job searching for a bit.
0:16:22 Then I would talk about my journey, eating something.
0:16:25 It was all over the place, and that’s why I never learned.
0:16:27 And by the time I got to 1,000 subscribers,
0:16:29 I had some followers from this topic, from that topic,
0:16:31 and it was just all over the place.
0:16:33 So I started a brand new channel about four months ago,
0:16:36 and because of that one podcast
0:16:37 that I told one of your team members about,
0:16:39 I was on one podcast,
0:16:42 the guy had 4,000 followers on his channel.
0:16:44 The highest viewed video was 500.
0:16:45 I came onto the podcast.
0:16:47 It went live two weeks ago.
0:16:50 That video has 400,000 views on it now.
0:16:51 – Oh my God.
0:16:55 – And that got me 25,000 subscribers just from that podcast.
0:16:56 – Wow. – So Hala,
0:16:56 I know you’re getting excited.
0:16:59 Man, I can’t wait to upload this video.
0:17:01 Who knows, maybe that’s the same thing might happen.
0:17:03 But then now I know how to work social media,
0:17:04 so I’ve already worked on YouTube
0:17:06 and it’s working quite well now.
0:17:09 – Oh my gosh, yeah, you are doing an incredible job.
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0:21:53 (whooshing)
0:21:55 So let’s get into some actionable advice,
0:21:58 some fundamentals when it comes to public speaking.
0:22:00 Let’s talk about volume.
0:22:02 What do we need to know about volume
0:22:04 when it comes to the way that we talk?
0:22:06 – I’ve had a change of heart in this.
0:22:07 I used to think you have to talk louder
0:22:09 to be more confident, right?
0:22:12 But then I realized if you’re always loud
0:22:13 and just talking like this the entire time,
0:22:15 eventually it gets really annoying.
0:22:17 But if you’re always quiet like this all the time
0:22:18 and you look timid.
0:22:19 So the key is not just volume.
0:22:22 The key is variety in volume.
0:22:24 So you go up and down and up and down
0:22:25 and I do this exercise in my workshops
0:22:29 where I’ll ask people to give me any topic on the spot
0:22:30 and I’ll just start talking about it
0:22:31 and I’ll just tell them, okay,
0:22:34 I’m gonna vary my emotions and my volume
0:22:36 and you tell me if it sounds interesting.
0:22:38 So the best way we can do this is just do it right now.
0:22:40 You think you can prompt me with a quick topic?
0:22:42 – Sure, just any topic.
0:22:43 – Just give me the most boring topic
0:22:45 you can think of in the world, okay?
0:22:46 And before you do that,
0:22:47 just hold your thumb up like this
0:22:49 just so I can see it on camera.
0:22:51 When you do this, I have to be really high volume
0:22:53 and when you do that, I have to be really low volume.
0:22:55 And let’s see if I can make something boring
0:22:56 sound more interesting, okay?
0:22:57 We’ll do 30 seconds.
0:22:59 – Okay, washing dishes.
0:23:01 – Perfect, ready to go?
0:23:02 – Yes.
0:23:03 – Give me the thumb and I’ll know where to start.
0:23:06 Washing dishes is one of the most exciting things you can do
0:23:09 because every single day when I make dinner,
0:23:13 it makes me feel present in the moment
0:23:17 because I’m there feeling the water on my hands,
0:23:19 feeling the warmth on my hands.
0:23:22 And I love seeing all the little dirt go off,
0:23:25 the dishes down, the spiral.
0:23:27 And it makes me think for a moment,
0:23:30 how grateful I am to have that meal.
0:23:33 See what I mean?
0:23:34 – Yeah, I love that.
0:23:36 – So it’s the up and down and up and down
0:23:37 that’s what makes it interesting.
0:23:40 Not just high volume, not just low volume.
0:23:41 – Yeah, and speed is another one
0:23:43 where I think we need variety.
0:23:46 Now I have my own perspectives on speed.
0:23:48 I am a fast talker.
0:23:51 I do a lot of workshops and trainings
0:23:54 and my business partner, Kate, and I love her.
0:23:56 She’s not such a fast talker.
0:24:00 And I really truly feel that I’m more engaging
0:24:02 in terms of my enthusiasm.
0:24:05 I feel like people are just awake when I’m talking
0:24:07 and I can have like an eight hour session
0:24:10 and keep everybody engaged the entire time.
0:24:13 And I think a part of it is talking fast.
0:24:16 But I do feel like when public speaking folks come on,
0:24:19 they often say slow it down, you know?
0:24:21 So tell me, what do you think?
0:24:22 – Listen, I have ADHD.
0:24:24 I have a million thoughts running in my head
0:24:26 and all of them wanna come out at the same time.
0:24:29 So I’m just like you, I wanna talk fast.
0:24:31 I was once invited to do a seminar
0:24:33 on public speaking anxiety.
0:24:35 And I’ve done this seminar a million times.
0:24:37 So I show up with my 17 different things to do
0:24:39 to overcome your public speaking anxiety.
0:24:41 I present in front of 200 people
0:24:42 and immediately people say, wow, Yasha,
0:24:44 you covered so much information.
0:24:45 That was absolutely amazing.
0:24:47 One of the guys says, Yasha,
0:24:48 I’m about to go next after you.
0:24:50 That’s exactly what I needed
0:24:52 because I was so anxious in the moment.
0:24:53 I said, amazing.
0:24:56 So I went out, got some coffee, sat back in the room.
0:24:58 I’m waiting for him to pop up on stage.
0:24:59 He shows up on stage and Hala,
0:25:04 I can see the notes shaking in his hand in the moment.
0:25:06 So he slowly walks on to the lectern.
0:25:07 He puts his notes there.
0:25:09 He starts speaking, going through his slides
0:25:10 and he’s stuttering.
0:25:14 You know when you have this feeling in your stomach
0:25:16 where you know something bad is gonna happen?
0:25:18 The entire time I’m watching that,
0:25:21 my stomach is just turning inwards.
0:25:22 And then eventually he hits this word
0:25:24 that he can’t really pronounce properly.
0:25:25 – Oh God.
0:25:29 – And he just puts the clicker down and walks off stage.
0:25:33 And I’m seeing it and it’s just, I can’t understand why.
0:25:35 So afterwards I see him in the parking lot
0:25:36 and I say, hey, what happened?
0:25:38 You were just there in my presentation.
0:25:40 I said, oh man, I just, I got nervous.
0:25:40 I don’t know what happened.
0:25:43 You were in my presentation where I talked
0:25:46 about the 17 ways to overcome public speaking anxiety.
0:25:47 You were in front row.
0:25:48 What happened?
0:25:51 And Hala, he said, three words I’ll never forget.
0:25:53 I couldn’t remember.
0:25:54 I couldn’t remember.
0:25:57 And that’s when I realized what’s the point
0:25:59 of me talking fast, high energy,
0:26:00 covering these 17 points
0:26:03 when he couldn’t remember it when he needed it most.
0:26:05 That’s when I learned to slow it down.
0:26:07 So my coach has this great saying, Craig Valentine.
0:26:09 He says, I’d rather give you three things you remember
0:26:11 than 10 things you forget.
0:26:13 Three things you remember than 10 things you forget.
0:26:16 So I’ve really narrowed down the amount of material I share
0:26:19 but I also try to vary the pace a little bit as well
0:26:20 when I talk.
0:26:22 – So same thing with volume.
0:26:25 You also want to vary your pace.
0:26:28 So what is talking slow do versus talking fast?
0:26:31 Like what does it portray when people are listening to you?
0:26:33 – Talking fast builds momentum.
0:26:34 Like, okay, we’re going somewhere.
0:26:35 Come along with me.
0:26:39 I’m going, but then I want you to think about this for a second.
0:26:42 Then you slow the pace down.
0:26:44 And every time you want to make a point,
0:26:46 this is one of the biggest challenges people have
0:26:47 in storytelling.
0:26:49 This skip over the most important part of the story
0:26:51 because it’s going so fast.
0:26:54 So if you really want people to listen,
0:26:57 slow down and you whisper.
0:26:58 What happens when you slow down?
0:26:59 What happens when you whisper?
0:27:00 People immediately lean forward.
0:27:02 So if you look at any of my talks,
0:27:04 you’ll say I’m super high energy
0:27:05 and then I’ll immediately drop the energy
0:27:07 and then people feel it in that moment.
0:27:09 So you use pauses effectively,
0:27:11 but you know some people who are trying
0:27:12 to be good public speakers,
0:27:13 I’m sure you’ve seen them.
0:27:17 They are always trying to talk like this.
0:27:19 I have great pauses when I,
0:27:20 and then you’re listening to it.
0:27:22 You don’t sound like a human being.
0:27:25 It’s just a little too, too theatrical, too rehearsed for me.
0:27:28 So I’d rather you be real and have variety
0:27:30 than just try to be this choreographed speaker
0:27:31 that everyone wants to see.
0:27:35 And speaking of being authentic and real,
0:27:37 I know one of the things that you say
0:27:39 is that you shouldn’t really be memorizing your stuff.
0:27:41 You should just know your stuff.
0:27:42 So talk to us about that.
0:27:47 – Yeah, memorizing is you putting on a performance on stage.
0:27:50 I memorize every single word.
0:27:52 I’m here on stage just to say the word.
0:27:54 So I feel like I did a good job for myself
0:27:56 and then I can sit back in my chair.
0:27:57 You will be shocked.
0:27:59 Actually, you probably won’t be shocked
0:28:00 if you’ve ever been to college.
0:28:03 How many people are completely unaware
0:28:07 that their audience is uninterested in what they’re saying?
0:28:08 If you’re ever doing a pitch or a Zoom meeting,
0:28:12 the audience has been zoned out for half an hour,
0:28:13 but they’re still just going on and on
0:28:14 because where’s their focus, Hala?
0:28:16 I need you to get the words out.
0:28:17 That’s it.
0:28:20 So when you, instead of memorizing, you internalize,
0:28:23 meaning just say the words out loud.
0:28:25 And half the time when you do that, you realize,
0:28:27 oh, that didn’t come out, right?
0:28:28 That didn’t really sound good.
0:28:29 Even I can’t understand what I’m saying.
0:28:31 Let me rework that.
0:28:34 You know the structure and the flow of information,
0:28:36 but you don’t have every single word memorized.
0:28:38 So now what happens is, if I asked you, Hala,
0:28:40 tell me what you ate for breakfast, lunch,
0:28:42 and dinner yesterday.
0:28:43 If you remember, you can tell me.
0:28:45 You don’t have to memorize every single ingredient.
0:28:46 You can just tell me what you had.
0:28:50 So when you show up for your speech, you know the sequence.
0:28:52 And then what you’re able to do is you’re able
0:28:54 to be in the moment with the audience.
0:28:56 And when someone’s phone rings or someone makes a comment,
0:28:58 you’re able to go out of the speech,
0:29:00 interact with them, and come back in
0:29:01 and be present in the moment.
0:29:04 That’s the difference between internalizing and memorizing.
0:29:09 – I feel like that works in many most situations.
0:29:12 But sometimes, like for example,
0:29:14 I do this presentation called the IAB Up Runs.
0:29:17 It’s like the biggest podcast advertising event.
0:29:20 And I just have 10 minutes.
0:29:24 So for every other speech, I just know my stuff
0:29:26 and it’s really natural.
0:29:30 But for the 10 minute timed one, I need to memorize it
0:29:34 so that I can get every single point that I want to cross.
0:29:36 And I just memorize it and just do it
0:29:38 and try to be as engaging as possible.
0:29:39 What are your thoughts on that?
0:29:40 – Well, that depends on the goal.
0:29:43 If your goal is to get those specific words
0:29:46 in that specific order out, then yes, memorize it.
0:29:47 Like your elevator pitch, right?
0:29:48 – Exactly.
0:29:51 – If the goal is to engage in having a conversation
0:29:53 with the audience, which is most of public speaking,
0:29:55 then you should not memorize.
0:29:56 Imagine having a conversation with someone
0:29:58 who’s memorized every sentence of their conversation.
0:30:00 – Oh yeah, you could tell that in a sales pitch
0:30:02 and you’re like, oh my God, this guy is just so–
0:30:03 – Exactly, exactly.
0:30:06 So if there is a performance element to it, then absolutely.
0:30:08 As long as you don’t sound like you’ve rehearsed
0:30:09 every single word.
0:30:11 – Exactly, okay, cool.
0:30:12 Glad you’re aligned with that.
0:30:15 Pauses and breaths, how should we think about them?
0:30:17 – At the end of the sentence
0:30:21 and when you want to create anticipation.
0:30:22 So I try to use it at the end of a sentence
0:30:24 because if I don’t pause,
0:30:26 usually an um or a will stick in.
0:30:28 And you’ll find when most people have ums or us,
0:30:30 they don’t quite know what to say next
0:30:33 and they’re afraid of the silence in between.
0:30:36 So then they add a little um or a in there
0:30:38 and that buys them some time.
0:30:41 So that sounds a little bit like this.
0:30:45 Instead, so that sounds like this.
0:30:47 Just removing that and being comfortable
0:30:49 with silence really helps.
0:30:50 And then also what I like to do
0:30:52 is whenever I’m making a big point,
0:30:55 I’ll combine this with high volume
0:30:57 and then I will drop the energy and I’ll pause.
0:31:00 So for example, I was getting this birthday gift,
0:31:01 I was so excited about it,
0:31:04 I finally opened the gift and I couldn’t believe that.
0:31:08 It was a pair of socks, I always wanted.
0:31:13 High energy, pause, drop energy.
0:31:14 Can you see how much you felt that in that moment?
0:31:18 – Yeah, so let’s talk about working the stage, right?
0:31:21 How can we first of all tell
0:31:23 if people are unengaged and engaged?
0:31:26 And what are the ways that aside from what we’re saying
0:31:28 that we can engage people?
0:31:31 – The biggest mistake, or rather I’d say the biggest
0:31:34 missed opportunity for most people, Hala,
0:31:37 is getting off stage, on stage.
0:31:39 Now you might be thinking, what do you mean?
0:31:41 If you look at my last keynote,
0:31:44 I start the speech on stage, then I get off stage
0:31:47 and I start talking to people individually.
0:31:48 What happens then?
0:31:51 Now they know he’s not just gonna talk for an hour.
0:31:53 I am in his speech.
0:31:54 He’s going to ask me questions,
0:31:57 whether it’s raise your hand, nod your head.
0:31:59 What comes to mind when I say this word?
0:32:02 I’m having a conversation with them the entire time.
0:32:04 And you’ll notice no one else does that
0:32:05 because they come out of the stage,
0:32:06 they say their slides and then they hop off.
0:32:09 But the moment you step off the stage,
0:32:11 now you’re one of them.
0:32:12 Now you’re having a conversation,
0:32:14 you’re not, hey, I’m this mighty public speaker up here,
0:32:16 please listen to me, bow down to me.
0:32:19 You talk to them and then you go back up on stage.
0:32:21 So every single time I’ll talk about something,
0:32:24 I’ll ask a question, I’ll go off stage,
0:32:26 have a conversation, bring it back.
0:32:28 So for example, in one of my modules,
0:32:30 I’ll say, what do you think is the number one thing
0:32:33 or what mistake people make in their presentations?
0:32:35 Shout some words at me as I walk around.
0:32:37 I’ll get off stage, I’ll walk around
0:32:39 and I’ll collect all the words from them.
0:32:41 So I heard this, I heard that, I heard this.
0:32:42 All of those are great answers,
0:32:44 but that’s not number one thing.
0:32:46 And then I will go into my speech.
0:32:47 So how are they feeling?
0:32:50 Hey, everything that we said is contributing to his speech
0:32:53 and now it’s a conversation and not a performance.
0:32:57 – So let’s say this is a meeting or an investor’s pitch.
0:32:59 How can you tell if people are engaged or not?
0:33:02 And also talk to us about hand gestures,
0:33:05 like what can we do to make it more interesting?
0:33:07 – To answer your first question, do regular check-ins
0:33:09 and regular check-ins are just these quick questions.
0:33:11 Raise your hand if I’m on the right track
0:33:13 or nod your head if you’ve seen this before.
0:33:15 Just these really, really quick engagement points.
0:33:17 So you know they’re still with you.
0:33:19 If someone’s on their phone, at the very least
0:33:21 when they hear it, they know they have to be stuck back in.
0:33:25 Now a trick that I use is if I know the people in the room
0:33:27 and I wanna get their specific attention,
0:33:29 I’ll call them out by name.
0:33:30 So let’s say there’s 10 people there.
0:33:31 So for example, Michael, you remember
0:33:33 in our last meeting, right, we did XYZ.
0:33:36 So what I’m talking about here is immediately
0:33:38 when they hear their name, oh, okay.
0:33:40 Right like that. – I love that.
0:33:42 – You have to be attentive to people.
0:33:44 Now on Zoom, the way I would do this,
0:33:47 if I don’t know anyone, I see their names pop up.
0:33:49 So I showed up.
0:33:51 I had no idea who anyone was in the room.
0:33:52 I was really nervous.
0:33:54 Hala, what do you think I did in that moment?
0:33:56 Exactly, I was really nervous before my speech.
0:33:58 So I would just look at their name.
0:34:01 I would get their attention, I will place them into my speech.
0:34:03 That way they feel acknowledged throughout.
0:34:04 So if there’s 50 people in my Zoom call,
0:34:06 I will take many different names throughout it
0:34:09 so every single person feels recognized throughout it.
0:34:10 Remind me of your second question.
0:34:12 – Your body language in general.
0:34:14 Hand gestures, body language, what do you recommend?
0:34:15 – Yeah.
0:34:17 Does it aid the story?
0:34:19 Does it aid the purpose?
0:34:21 Body language can get very distracting as well.
0:34:23 I remember I used to do this entire play with my hands
0:34:26 and people had to tell me, hey, relax a little bit.
0:34:27 You’re putting on this.
0:34:29 It doesn’t contribute to your story.
0:34:31 So if it adds to the story, great.
0:34:33 I naturally use my hands a lot.
0:34:35 But in meeting specifically,
0:34:38 I’ve noticed that the more control your hands are,
0:34:40 the more confident you sound.
0:34:42 Because if you ask me a question,
0:34:46 Yasser, are you really a good public speaking coach?
0:34:48 Oh yeah, yeah, I’m a great public speaking coach.
0:34:49 I’ve done a lot.
0:34:53 You can see all this uncontrolled movement in the moment
0:34:56 and that shows you I’m not very confident.
0:34:59 Now, whereas if you asked me the same question
0:35:01 and I’d moved nothing about my body,
0:35:03 Yasser, why are you such a good public speaker?
0:35:05 I’m a really good public speaker because I’ve done this enough.
0:35:07 I didn’t move my body at all,
0:35:11 but that showed stability and calmness and composure.
0:35:12 So it really depends on the context.
0:35:14 It’s not just more or less.
0:35:15 It’s what’s the context?
0:35:17 What are you trying to communicate?
0:35:22 And I also heard you say the power of showing your palms.
0:35:24 Yeah.
0:35:26 What does that do for us psychologically?
0:35:28 Well, what happens when we can’t see someone’s hands?
0:35:30 Psychologically, we just don’t know
0:35:32 what they’re holding in their hands.
0:35:33 We don’t know if they’re holding a weapon
0:35:34 or what it might be.
0:35:36 If someone’s hands are under the desk
0:35:37 in their pocket behind their hands,
0:35:41 subconsciously, it creates uncertainty.
0:35:44 Hmm, I can’t see his hands or I can’t see her hands.
0:35:45 I wonder what they’re doing.
0:35:47 I wonder what they’re hiding, right?
0:35:49 So similarly, if someone puts on a hoodie
0:35:51 in the middle of the night and is walking down the street
0:35:53 and you’re walking towards them,
0:35:55 just because it’s dark, you can’t see them.
0:35:58 They’ve got a hoodie on, there’s uncertainty.
0:36:01 So that’s why when you reveal your palms,
0:36:02 it shows that you’re friendly.
0:36:05 It shows that there’s a lack of, I’m not hiding anything.
0:36:08 So open palm gestures tend to be much easier
0:36:10 in the eyes to perceive a message.
0:36:13 Okay, so we’re about to do a fun little segment.
0:36:15 It’s a quick fire segment.
0:36:18 It’s gonna be getting tips on delivering our content better.
0:36:21 I’m gonna rattle off a word like intelligence,
0:36:23 and then you can tell me how we can sound more intelligent.
0:36:26 I might even rattle off a celebrity name
0:36:27 or something like that, okay?
0:36:28 Let’s do it.
0:36:30 Persuasive.
0:36:32 Admit to your own limitations first
0:36:34 before you tell them what to do.
0:36:35 Give me an example.
0:36:38 So if I said, go vegan, it’ll change your life.
0:36:40 Your diet sucks.
0:36:41 You’re probably not gonna go vegan.
0:36:43 But if I said, man, I love eating meat,
0:36:46 but I for some reason when I would go to my jujitsu class,
0:36:48 my stamina would just run out.
0:36:50 Then I met this guy who said, hey, have you tried going vegan?
0:36:52 I said, are you out of your mind?
0:36:53 He said, I didn’t like it either,
0:36:55 but I tried going vegan, it really helped.
0:36:56 So I said, okay, I tried it for a month
0:36:58 and oh my God, did it help.
0:37:00 My stamina was through the roof.
0:37:02 So if your stamina’s an issue, give it a shot.
0:37:03 Which one was better? – Love that.
0:37:05 The second one for sure.
0:37:08 Okay, intelligence or smart?
0:37:11 – Count the number of things you will share.
0:37:13 So if I said, Hala, today I’m gonna share
0:37:14 a couple of things with you
0:37:15 that will help with public speaking.
0:37:18 Or, Hala, today I’m gonna share five things
0:37:20 that will help you with public speaking.
0:37:22 Which one sounds more intelligent?
0:37:23 – The five things.
0:37:24 – All I did was number it.
0:37:27 And it does so much because it makes you think,
0:37:29 oh, this person has thought about it enough
0:37:33 that they know how many numbers are tied to that equation.
0:37:35 Quick little tip.
0:37:36 – Love that.
0:37:38 Alex Hermosi.
0:37:40 – It’s funny, I was front row in his workshop,
0:37:42 so I got to see him live.
0:37:44 The one word that comes to mind with him
0:37:48 is he’s so real and authentic in the moment
0:37:50 that because he’s real,
0:37:53 whatever he says, it goes straight to our heart.
0:37:55 It’s not a performance.
0:37:56 He’s not reading off on his lies.
0:37:58 He genuinely feels anything.
0:38:01 And remember this, if they don’t feel it, they forget it.
0:38:02 If they don’t feel it, they forget it.
0:38:05 And every time Alex speaks, he feels.
0:38:06 And that’s why so many of us
0:38:08 remember so many of his quotes.
0:38:09 – Love that.
0:38:11 Imaginative.
0:38:13 – If you want to transport people
0:38:15 somewhere in your story,
0:38:17 one of the most powerful words you can use
0:38:19 is the word imagine.
0:38:22 And better yet, place them in your story
0:38:24 with a phrase so they can imagine themselves there.
0:38:26 Now, I don’t really know if you remember this, Hala,
0:38:29 but when I told you my story of when I came to Canada,
0:38:32 I said, if you were there in the room with me,
0:38:35 you would have seen me walk to the,
0:38:36 what are you doing when I say that?
0:38:37 You imagine. – Visualizing.
0:38:40 – Exactly, so when you’re telling a story,
0:38:42 don’t just say, I did this, then this, then this happened.
0:38:44 Now you’re telling a sequence of events.
0:38:46 Put the person in the room with you there.
0:38:47 Get them to imagine.
0:38:50 – Okay, last one, compassionate or empathetic?
0:38:52 How can we be more compassionate?
0:38:53 – I’ve got a TED talk on empathy,
0:38:55 so I’m gonna have to go empathy between the two of them.
0:38:58 But I had to run in with someone who,
0:39:00 it was a small town in Canada,
0:39:02 and I was doing door-to-door sales.
0:39:04 And I knocked their door and they opened the door.
0:39:06 And the first thing they said was,
0:39:09 get off my lawn, you effing Hindu.
0:39:10 – Oh my God.
0:39:12 – And that was four months in Canada.
0:39:14 Now you can imagine my reaction.
0:39:16 Now, at the time I was really traumatized by it,
0:39:18 but I heard it so much throughout the summer,
0:39:20 a lot of this racism that eventually just stopped
0:39:23 and asked him, hey, what happened?
0:39:24 Where did this come from?
0:39:26 And he told me a story about some guy
0:39:28 who looked like me, who broke into his car and stole it.
0:39:30 And about two hours later,
0:39:32 I ended up walking out of his house
0:39:33 selling him an alarm system.
0:39:35 And all of that happened because I was able to empathize
0:39:39 with someone who just hated the idea of my very existence.
0:39:41 So that’s how far empathy can take you
0:39:44 and expand more on that in my TED talk.
0:39:45 – Amazing.
0:39:46 So I’ll stick your TED talk link in the show notes.
0:39:49 Let’s double tap on intelligence.
0:39:51 I think people get a lot of things wrong
0:39:55 when it comes to trying to sound intelligent.
0:39:57 Can you talk to us about how we can make
0:40:01 really complex things easier to understand?
0:40:02 – I’ll give you a perfect example.
0:40:03 You mentioned Hermose earlier.
0:40:06 I was at Hermose’s workshop.
0:40:08 And one of the things they do in the workshop
0:40:09 is you have these round tables
0:40:11 where you sit with one of the people on his team
0:40:13 and you’ve got about 10 people.
0:40:15 And we have a minute to ask a question
0:40:18 and they give you a response and it’s the next person.
0:40:20 So I was noticing this person next to me,
0:40:22 he would ask a question.
0:40:23 So this is my business
0:40:25 and I’m trying to do this other thing.
0:40:27 And also, by the way, my wife does this.
0:40:28 And so five years ago,
0:40:31 he’s giving his entire life story
0:40:33 and then he gets the answer
0:40:34 and he’s not satisfied with the answer.
0:40:37 He does that two times and three times.
0:40:38 And I lean over to him and I say,
0:40:42 “Hey, listen, I don’t know what your question is.
0:40:45 I don’t know how he knows how to answer your question.
0:40:49 Why don’t you start by asking your question
0:40:52 and then providing the details and see if that helps?”
0:40:54 So the next round table he had was he said,
0:40:59 “Hey, I have a lot of followers, but they’re not converting.
0:41:02 For context, X, Y, Z, what do I do?”
0:41:03 And then he got a good answer.
0:41:06 And he said, “Man, what happened there?”
0:41:08 I said, “You know what happened?
0:41:10 You hadn’t processed your own thoughts.
0:41:13 You threw your unprocessed thoughts at the other person.
0:41:15 You were hoping they would untangle those thoughts,
0:41:18 find the question and somehow give you a good answer.
0:41:20 It does not make you sound intelligent.
0:41:22 Instead, it makes you sound lazy.”
0:41:24 So first think about what you want to ask.
0:41:27 Start with a point and then go into the details.
0:41:29 So if someone’s trying to sound more intelligent,
0:41:31 sound like you’ve thought about
0:41:33 what you’re about to say first.
0:41:35 – And then how about using big words?
0:41:36 Is that helpful at all?
0:41:37 – Not at all.
0:41:40 In fact, when I’m working with CEOs,
0:41:45 the number one thing I have to do is simplify everything.
0:41:48 I work with a lot of people in the web three crypto space
0:41:50 and they have so many terms
0:41:51 that they don’t want to throw at people.
0:41:52 And one of the clients just yesterday,
0:41:55 he was not even two minutes into the pitch.
0:41:56 I said, “Listen, you lost me.
0:41:58 I have no idea what you’re talking about.”
0:41:59 He said, “But these are important.”
0:42:02 I said, “Listen, do the people who are investing
0:42:04 in your business, do they understand this terminology?”
0:42:05 No.
0:42:08 Then simplify it, use analogies, use metaphors,
0:42:10 use stories to put me in the room.
0:42:12 That’s how you get their attention.
0:42:13 So yes, simplify it.
0:42:15 Don’t worry about the vocabulary.
0:42:16 – I know you have this great technique
0:42:18 called the PAM technique
0:42:21 to help people understand and simplify concepts.
0:42:23 Could you break that down for us?
0:42:25 – Phrases, analogies and metaphors.
0:42:27 So your phrases would be your one-liner.
0:42:30 So if I said, “I have a dream,”
0:42:32 who’s the person who comes to mind?
0:42:33 – Martin Luther King.
0:42:35 – If I said the name, Alex Hermose,
0:42:36 what’s the quote that comes to mind?
0:42:39 – Focus is more important than anything.
0:42:42 – So can you see how the moment you think of a person,
0:42:43 a quote comes to mind,
0:42:45 the moment you think of a quote, a person comes to mind?
0:42:48 – That’s the importance of having these repeatable quotes.
0:42:50 Most people don’t have them in their back pocket.
0:42:53 So earlier, like I said, purpose over praise.
0:42:55 That’s a quote, that’s a phrase.
0:42:58 So when you repeat these phrases enough times,
0:43:00 people associate that phrase with you.
0:43:02 So Neil Armstrong, first man on the moon,
0:43:04 one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind.
0:43:06 Tell me a single word
0:43:08 from the rest of his speech or transmission.
0:43:10 No one has any idea exactly.
0:43:11 Simon Sinek, start with why.
0:43:12 Tell me a single word.
0:43:14 No one knows.
0:43:16 So you have to have these phrases in your back pocket
0:43:17 and then you have to have analogies.
0:43:20 So for example, I like to tell people,
0:43:21 hey, if you’re gonna speak,
0:43:25 start with the gift, then the gift wrapped.
0:43:29 The analogy says, don’t tell me the 50,000 points
0:43:31 without the actual message and takeaway.
0:43:32 Tell me what the purpose is
0:43:34 and then give me the details.
0:43:37 Start with the gift, then find the gift wrap.
0:43:39 So can you see how the analogy
0:43:41 and the metaphor helps your understanding?
0:43:42 Take a familiar concept
0:43:45 and use that to explain an unfamiliar concept.
0:43:47 That would be your metaphor and analogies.
0:43:49 – So one other tip that you give
0:43:52 is actually listening to smart things,
0:43:54 listening to other smart people.
0:43:55 How does that help us,
0:43:57 especially in day-to-day communications?
0:44:00 – If you think about how we learn a language,
0:44:02 especially when we’re babies,
0:44:03 how do we learn?
0:44:04 We learn from our parents.
0:44:05 We learn from people around us.
0:44:08 We subconsciously absorb it.
0:44:11 How many toddlers are going to language classes?
0:44:12 I imagine not many.
0:44:14 Maybe Elon Musk did, I don’t know.
0:44:16 But we don’t learn through courses and classrooms.
0:44:18 We learn through exposure.
0:44:20 So similarly, what kind of material
0:44:23 are you exposing yourself to every single day?
0:44:24 What are you reading?
0:44:25 Who are you listening to?
0:44:26 If they’re listening to your podcast,
0:44:28 I imagine they have a very rich vocabulary.
0:44:31 The moment you start listening to all these things
0:44:32 and it’s sinking to your brain,
0:44:34 you won’t even realize,
0:44:36 you start saying things that you’ve heard in podcasts,
0:44:38 but you don’t even know you heard it somewhere.
0:44:40 Until someone says, oh, I’ve heard that somewhere.
0:44:41 Where did you say that from?
0:44:42 Because subconsciously,
0:44:44 all of this is sitting in your head.
0:44:48 So you have to really carefully guard what you allow in
0:44:51 and what you don’t allow in terms of your intellect.
0:44:52 – We’ll be right back
0:44:55 after a quick break from our sponsors.
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0:46:34 So something that I wanna talk to you about in detail
0:46:36 is storytelling.
0:46:38 Because I feel like storytelling is so important,
0:46:40 even when it comes to relationships,
0:46:42 we were just talking about dating.
0:46:44 I think being a good storyteller just makes you more
0:46:47 engaging, more interesting to people.
0:46:49 What are some of the ways that storytelling
0:46:51 helps us in our communication?
0:46:52 What does storytelling do?
0:46:55 How do people feel when they hear stories?
0:46:58 – The most important thing that I feel storytelling does
0:47:00 is just memorable.
0:47:02 People just remember for much longer.
0:47:05 So if I asked you, do you want people to remember
0:47:06 what you said?
0:47:07 – Yes, okay.
0:47:10 Do you want to share your message in a way
0:47:10 that people remember it?
0:47:13 Yes, then you must do it in a format of a story.
0:47:15 How many of your three-hour lectures do you remember
0:47:17 from college alone?
0:47:17 – Like none.
0:47:18 – Exactly.
0:47:21 How many movies since you were a child do you remember?
0:47:22 – A plenty.
0:47:23 – And all of those are stories.
0:47:25 I imagine none of those were 30 bullet points
0:47:26 from start to finish, right?
0:47:27 – No.
0:47:29 – So you have to learn to create imagery
0:47:31 and you have to get people to feel something.
0:47:34 If they don’t feel anything, they will not remember it.
0:47:36 I’ll give you a really strange example here.
0:47:39 When I was a kid, I had a costume party
0:47:41 when I was about seven years old at school
0:47:43 and I had this crush on a girl
0:47:45 and she was going to dress up as Pikachu.
0:47:47 So I said, okay, what goes well with Pikachu?
0:47:49 I’m thinking of all the best costumes
0:47:51 and for some reason I come up with Bugs Bunny, right?
0:47:53 So I show up as Bugs Bunny in the moment
0:47:56 and I’m trying to impress her and she says,
0:47:58 “Oh, Yasser, of course you’re Bugs Bunny.”
0:47:59 Like, oh, how did you know?
0:48:02 Oh, because of your two large ugly front teeth.
0:48:04 – Aw.
0:48:07 – And I didn’t forget that for 20 years, hello.
0:48:10 That one single sentence for 20 years
0:48:13 because of how she made me feel in that moment.
0:48:15 And the reason I say that is because that story,
0:48:17 I’ve told so many times to so many people
0:48:20 that, hey, the words that come out of your mouth,
0:48:21 they’re important.
0:48:24 What you say might not be what they hear.
0:48:26 You might say something as a joke to somebody
0:48:29 but they might remember it for a very, very long time.
0:48:31 That’s why when you’re telling a story,
0:48:33 similarly, you can have positive words,
0:48:35 positive phrases that people will remember
0:48:36 for a very, very long time.
0:48:40 For example, Karen in the first meeting that I ever met her
0:48:40 in Toastmasters, she said,
0:48:43 “It takes one small step to change your life.”
0:48:44 I still remember that.
0:48:46 It’s been more than a decade.
0:48:48 – So talk to us about how we can become
0:48:49 better story tellers.
0:48:51 Like, how can we start to infuse stories
0:48:54 and the things that we do and get better at it?
0:48:57 Is there a formula or like, how should we think about it?
0:48:59 – There are three things that I talk about.
0:49:01 The three R’s to be remembered.
0:49:04 The first R is your story has to be repeatable.
0:49:07 If I hear the story, can I hear it long enough
0:49:09 to then repeat it to someone else?
0:49:11 So if you’ve heard your favorite standup comedian,
0:49:12 you have this bit that you like.
0:49:15 Oh, he has a great bit on dating or great bit on whatever.
0:49:17 You can repeat it to other people.
0:49:20 If I can’t repeat it, I won’t remember it.
0:49:21 So first thing has to be repeatable.
0:49:24 Number two, does it relay emotion?
0:49:27 Do I feel something when I hear your story?
0:49:28 I can tell you about how I got into my car
0:49:31 and I got gas and I came back home.
0:49:32 What’s the point?
0:49:34 It’s a pointless story, but is there a point too?
0:49:36 And you’ll be shocked how many things
0:49:37 you can make sound emotional.
0:49:40 Like, earlier we talked about cleaning the dishes
0:49:41 and just with the volume,
0:49:43 we made it sound a little bit emotional, right?
0:49:46 Someone asked me in a conference of 500 loan officers,
0:49:48 napkins and we made napkins emotional.
0:49:51 So can you talk about that with emotion?
0:49:53 Can you resonate and relay your emotion?
0:49:56 And number three, I feel like this is the strongest thing
0:49:57 when it comes to storytelling.
0:50:00 Can you reframe an existing belief?
0:50:03 If your story tells me what I already know,
0:50:04 it’s not changing my belief.
0:50:06 Can you take me from point A to point B
0:50:09 and reframe how I look at the world?
0:50:11 That’s what a good story does.
0:50:13 So three things, it has to be repeatable.
0:50:14 You have to relay emotion
0:50:16 and it has to reframe your beliefs.
0:50:17 – It’s so true.
0:50:20 Stories really trigger our own emotions.
0:50:22 We feel more relatable to the person talking
0:50:26 and to your point, it helps us question our own beliefs.
0:50:29 And that’s the point, especially with social media,
0:50:31 gets people commenting and giving their thoughts
0:50:33 or agreeing, they’re disagreeing
0:50:35 and it causes a lot of engagement.
0:50:36 – Add one more quarter to that.
0:50:38 You said something really amazing there.
0:50:40 You said about how they change the belief.
0:50:43 A quote that I love, because I created it,
0:50:45 is good speakers tell you what to do.
0:50:48 Memorable speakers make you question what is true.
0:50:51 They make you change your beliefs.
0:50:52 And if they don’t make you change your beliefs
0:50:54 or you’re not gonna see the world any different.
0:50:55 – So I know we were just talking
0:50:58 about how you grew a great personal brand
0:51:01 on Instagram, on TikTok.
0:51:03 How do you infuse storytelling
0:51:06 to get people emotionally attached to you?
0:51:08 – I haven’t done a great job of that
0:51:10 to be very transparent with you.
0:51:11 I’m always talking about tips and tricks
0:51:12 and all of these things
0:51:14 that I never really talked about it much
0:51:15 until my clients started telling me,
0:51:18 hey, I love that one video you made
0:51:20 where you talked about your ADHD.
0:51:23 I love how you talk about, oh, you mean you actually like that?
0:51:24 That’s not filler content.
0:51:27 And then I started tapping into that quite a bit more.
0:51:28 I don’t know what it is with me, Hala.
0:51:29 Maybe it’s my childhood,
0:51:32 but I feel like if I tell people stories
0:51:34 where I struggled in the past,
0:51:37 it’s gonna be a downer and people will feel worse off.
0:51:40 But I’ve learned over time, if you share your pain,
0:51:43 it’s almost always in the audience’s game.
0:51:43 – Oh yeah.
0:51:46 – So now I’ve started leaning into it more and more.
0:51:48 So it’s only recently that I’ve been talking about
0:51:50 all the mess ups I’ve had with my clients,
0:51:52 all the terrible advice I’ve given them,
0:51:54 how I used to be anxious with my public speaking
0:51:57 and now people are starting to relate to it.
0:51:59 So I imagine my following might grow a little bit faster now,
0:52:01 but to give you an honest answer,
0:52:02 I didn’t use much storytelling
0:52:04 in all this content up until now.
0:52:05 – I love that you’re being honest about this.
0:52:07 Now, I also am very similar
0:52:10 where I’m always giving entrepreneurship advice
0:52:12 and interview clips of other people.
0:52:16 Now, whenever I replay something like my MIT speech
0:52:19 that you mentioned, where I’m giving my own personal story,
0:52:24 I get 10 times more DMs where people go out of their way.
0:52:27 Hey, I heard that and oh my gosh, I totally relate.
0:52:29 And I just want to say you’re doing such a great job.
0:52:33 So much more actionable things that people do,
0:52:34 like aside from just commenting,
0:52:36 they really go out of their way
0:52:37 and I get so much more engagement.
0:52:40 So it’s so important for you to share your story.
0:52:42 It makes people feel like they know you better,
0:52:43 you’re an old friend,
0:52:45 and then they support you more because of it.
0:52:47 – Emotion creates devotion.
0:52:48 – Mm.
0:52:51 – And it’s hard to relay emotion with tips and tricks.
0:52:53 When was the last time you gave your teacher
0:52:54 a standing ovation?
0:52:55 – I don’t know.
0:52:57 – Unless they share the story, never, right?
0:52:59 They’re giving you tips and tricks very helpful
0:53:00 that you won’t give them a standing ovation.
0:53:03 But when someone sings a song with their heart,
0:53:05 when someone delivers a performance, hell,
0:53:07 I’ve been in cinemas where a movie ended,
0:53:08 there’s no one there.
0:53:10 People will stand up and clap, why?
0:53:13 Because it’s the emotion that creates the devotion.
0:53:14 I was speaking with a coach
0:53:16 and I used to listen to his speech and I said,
0:53:18 “Listen, you always got a standing ovation at the end.
0:53:20 I’m doing all these workshops and public speaking.
0:53:21 I’m so valuable.
0:53:22 How come I don’t get it?”
0:53:24 He said, “Because people don’t feel anything.”
0:53:27 And storytelling, that’s what makes people feel something.
0:53:28 So try ending with a story,
0:53:31 end it with a story and guess what, standing ovation.
0:53:33 – So I’ve got some advice for you.
0:53:36 I teach personal branding and I help influencers
0:53:39 grow on social media and LinkedIn specifically.
0:53:41 And one of the things that I tell my students
0:53:43 is to create a story journal.
0:53:48 So everybody has 10, 20, 30 stories,
0:53:50 milestones that have happened in their life.
0:53:53 They got fired, they had a transformation,
0:53:54 they were an intern and they became a CEO.
0:53:55 Somebody died.
0:53:59 Everybody has big milestone stories.
0:54:01 But the problem is that when you tell them
0:54:03 to share their stories online,
0:54:05 they’re like, “Why don’t, I don’t have any stories.”
0:54:06 But everybody has stories.
0:54:08 You got to write them down
0:54:09 and then you’ve got to say them
0:54:11 in a million different ways.
0:54:12 So what are your thoughts about that?
0:54:15 Like how can people prepare their storytelling
0:54:16 and anything to add there?
0:54:18 – I love that, I love that.
0:54:21 So, okay, this is going to be a really weird example.
0:54:22 I’m going to tell you a really quick story.
0:54:24 I spent a month and a half
0:54:27 preparing the perfect intro for a keynote I had coming up.
0:54:30 I wanted to get, yeah, just the first sentence of it.
0:54:32 And the first sentence was going to be,
0:54:34 I have a confession to make.
0:54:36 You might have heard that I’ve got all these followers,
0:54:38 but there was a time that I wasn’t very confident.
0:54:41 And I was going to go into my speech about my journey.
0:54:43 Let’s start on a very somber note.
0:54:45 And the night before my keynote,
0:54:48 I’m having a dinner with the team
0:54:50 and they noticed that I’m not drinking.
0:54:51 I don’t drink.
0:54:52 They said, okay, you also, you don’t drink?
0:54:53 I said, no.
0:54:54 They said, oh, I also noticed
0:54:55 you didn’t drink any coffee in the morning.
0:54:56 How come you don’t drink coffee?
0:54:59 I said, oh, it was because it dehydrates me.
0:55:01 And then he said, so what?
0:55:03 And I was thinking, okay, how do I explain to them?
0:55:04 How do I say this?
0:55:05 So here’s the thing.
0:55:08 I make money with my mouth.
0:55:10 So it dehydrates me.
0:55:12 But before I could say the dehydration part,
0:55:14 everyone started laughing.
0:55:16 And then I realized what I had just said.
0:55:18 And they said, that’s what you should open your keynote with.
0:55:20 I said, are you out of your mind?
0:55:22 And they’re like, no, no, no, open with that.
0:55:25 So now I’ve spent a month and a half on that perfect line.
0:55:27 And the next day I said, okay, let me try it.
0:55:29 And I tried it and it killed.
0:55:31 It completely killed. – Amazing.
0:55:33 – So that was the story of just in the moment
0:55:36 how I came up with it because of what happened there.
0:55:37 And that was the story, right?
0:55:38 It was a quick little anecdote
0:55:40 that I pulled into the speech.
0:55:42 So every single day, like you’re saying,
0:55:44 you’re gonna have experiences that give you a story.
0:55:46 Lore the bar what a story is.
0:55:48 Yesterday I was in line for 15 minutes
0:55:50 for some new coffee shop that opened up.
0:55:51 That was terrible.
0:55:53 And I’m thinking, what’s the message?
0:55:54 Life’s too short to wait.
0:55:56 That’s the message.
0:55:58 You can just practice that with everything every day.
0:55:59 – Yeah.
0:56:00 And I love what you’re saying here
0:56:03 because you’re saying stories don’t have to be like long
0:56:04 and complicated.
0:56:07 Stories can actually be simple, right?
0:56:09 You’ve got this prep formula.
0:56:11 Can you go over what that is?
0:56:13 And then maybe can we do some role playing related to that?
0:56:14 – Sure.
0:56:15 And by the way, this is not my formula.
0:56:16 I learned it from Stanford.
0:56:17 So I want to give you the credit.
0:56:18 – Oh, okay.
0:56:20 So Stanford’s formula, but we’re learning it from yes.
0:56:22 – It’s point reason example point.
0:56:25 And it’s mainly for, let’s say you’ve got an impromptu speech
0:56:27 or you want to say something and make sense of it.
0:56:28 You give a point of something.
0:56:30 You provide an example of it.
0:56:32 Reason and example and then a point.
0:56:36 I do PRP or PSP point reason point point story point.
0:56:38 Just because I find that I naturally infuse
0:56:39 an example in there.
0:56:43 So why don’t you give me a random question
0:56:44 and I’m going to give you a terrible answer
0:56:46 and then we’ll try to implement it in there.
0:56:47 – Okay.
0:56:49 Why did you become a public speaker?
0:56:52 – Oh man, there’s so many reasons I became a public speaker.
0:56:54 You know, I always wanted to share my message
0:56:56 and there’s so many things I’m interested in
0:57:00 like a public speaking confidence and reading books
0:57:00 and mindful.
0:57:01 I wanted to share that with people.
0:57:04 And yeah, you know, it’s always been like a goal of mine
0:57:06 and yeah, that’s why I’m a public speaker.
0:57:07 – Pretty bad.
0:57:09 – All over the place.
0:57:11 Have you heard an answer like that before?
0:57:12 – Oh yeah.
0:57:13 – Nine times out of 10, right?
0:57:14 Now what I’m going to do,
0:57:15 I’m going to say the exact same thing.
0:57:17 I’m just going to structure it differently.
0:57:19 I’m going to pick one specific reason
0:57:20 and I’m going to go into that.
0:57:22 Okay, so ask me that question again.
0:57:24 – Why did you become a public speaker?
0:57:27 – I became a public speaker to show other people
0:57:29 how important their voice is.
0:57:32 Hello, when I grew up, I didn’t speak for 20 years
0:57:34 because there was a little girl who made fun of my teeth
0:57:37 and I was embarrassed to open my mouth.
0:57:39 But when I started practicing public speaking,
0:57:42 I realized how many more people were being affected
0:57:44 with the words that were coming out of my mouth.
0:57:47 So now it was my responsibility to open my mouth
0:57:49 and I want to show other people through my public speaking
0:57:51 that their voice matters as well.
0:57:53 That’s why I got into public speaking.
0:57:55 – I can imagine this could be really helpful
0:57:57 to prepare for networking events
0:57:59 ’cause everyone’s going to ask you the same questions,
0:58:00 like what do you do for a living
0:58:01 and what are you passionate about?
0:58:03 – Exactly.
0:58:07 If you just script three questions one time in your life,
0:58:10 it will make you successful in every single network.
0:58:11 Just what do you do?
0:58:12 Why are you here?
0:58:13 Tell me about yourself.
0:58:14 That’s it.
0:58:18 Just script them one time and then you will be good for life.
0:58:19 But you’ll be shocked how many times.
0:58:21 Like, so what brought you here?
0:58:23 You know, my wife dragged me down here.
0:58:25 I’m like, oh my God, why me?
0:58:27 And then you have to just move on to the next person.
0:58:29 And I’ve been to conferences
0:58:32 where people were representing their company Hala.
0:58:34 I said, hey, what are you finding interesting
0:58:35 about the event so far?
0:58:36 – Well, I guess it’s all right.
0:58:39 You know, I’m just here for a couple of hours.
0:58:40 – What, why are you here?
0:58:41 – Yeah.
0:58:42 – I didn’t understand somebody else.
0:58:43 – You’re fired.
0:58:44 – Exactly, exactly.
0:58:45 – Yeah.
0:58:48 So I know that you are coaching CEOs now
0:58:51 and I imagine that you are taking sales calls
0:58:53 and closing and pitching these CEOs.
0:58:56 What advice do you have for the entrepreneurs tuning in
0:58:57 for how to handle a sales call
0:59:00 and some communication tips around that?
0:59:02 – Hala, if you go to my website right now
0:59:04 and you go to coaching,
0:59:06 you will see one video of me that says,
0:59:08 I am completely booked.
0:59:09 I do not have time.
0:59:11 If you want to work with me,
0:59:13 here’s $2,000 an hour book a call.
0:59:15 That’s my funnel.
0:59:18 So there was a time where I was doing sales calls.
0:59:21 I’m no longer doing sales calls.
0:59:22 Fortunately, I have such demand
0:59:23 that I can’t afford to spend them.
0:59:24 – Yeah, content marketing is working for you.
0:59:27 – Yeah, you wanted two grand an hour, right?
0:59:29 But when I did have it,
0:59:31 I would often find that if someone’s in a position
0:59:33 where they want to work on a skill
0:59:34 that’s far in the future,
0:59:35 they have no urgency.
0:59:37 Yeah, I want to become a good public speaker.
0:59:40 Yeah, I’ll say with like 20 grand, I’ll let you know.
0:59:42 But if they have a presentation coming up,
0:59:45 hey, I’m pitching my product in front of 15,000 people.
0:59:46 I’ve never stepped on stage.
0:59:48 I don’t care how much you charge, let’s do it.
0:59:49 Now it’s a lot easier for me.
0:59:51 And I just prefer working with people
0:59:54 who have a specific end goal in mind
0:59:55 because skills take time.
0:59:56 There’s no urgency around it.
0:59:58 If you’ve got a specific presentation coming up,
0:59:59 it tends to be easy.
1:00:01 So I think the sales message here is,
1:00:03 find a way to add urgency into the process.
1:00:04 Full transparency,
1:00:07 I’m probably not the best salesperson in general to ask,
1:00:10 but my content does a lot of persuasion.
1:00:11 So by the time they’re on the call,
1:00:13 I don’t really have to do a whole lot.
1:00:16 – Gasser, this has been such an amazing conversation.
1:00:18 Do you have any last bit of advice for entrepreneurs
1:00:21 related to their communication and public speaking
1:00:24 that you feel like you didn’t get a chance to share?
1:00:25 – I’ll leave you with this.
1:00:28 I never wanted to implement any of the things
1:00:29 that we just talked about today.
1:00:30 I’ve heard them a million times,
1:00:31 but I never wanted to do them.
1:00:33 Oh yeah, sounds great, right?
1:00:35 A woman came to my workshop once
1:00:36 and she said, “Gasser, I’m not very confident
1:00:37 “teach me public speaking.”
1:00:39 And I got her to speak a little bit
1:00:41 and she said, “I’m a midwife and this is what I do.”
1:00:42 I said, “Okay.”
1:00:45 And then she stopped talking after 30 seconds.
1:00:47 But I said, “Okay, can you tell me something interesting
1:00:49 “that happened to you at work?”
1:00:50 And she said, “Yeah, as a midwife,
1:00:52 “I help with delivering babies.”
1:00:53 I said, “Okay.”
1:00:55 And one day a woman came in
1:00:56 and she was delivering a baby
1:00:57 and she delivered the baby.
1:00:59 But when the baby came out,
1:01:00 the baby wasn’t breathing.
1:01:03 So all the doctors immediately went,
1:01:05 they did CPR, tried to resuscitate the baby
1:01:06 over and over again.
1:01:09 They tried for 20 seconds, 30 seconds, 40 seconds.
1:01:10 Eventually they had to call it.
1:01:11 So they looked at her and they said,
1:01:13 “Hey, Mary, it’s up to you.
1:01:15 “We did what we could.
1:01:17 “I know tomorrow Saturday, Sunday, you’re off,
1:01:18 “but do whatever you gotta do, we’ll meet on Monday.”
1:01:21 So the doctors left and Mary’s standing there in the room
1:01:24 and on one side you see a mother who just gave birth.
1:01:26 On the other side, you’re seeing a baby boy
1:01:27 who’s not breathing.
1:01:29 So in that moment, she just goes to the mother
1:01:31 and says, “Hey, can I just continue giving CPR?
1:01:34 “Can I just, like, what do I have to lose, right?”
1:01:36 So she continues giving CPR,
1:01:38 continues 10 seconds, 20 seconds, 30 seconds
1:01:40 and the baby starts breathing.
1:01:41 – Wow.
1:01:44 – And immediately she wraps up the baby in a pink blanket,
1:01:46 runs down the pharmacist and says,
1:01:47 “Hey, I need medication right now
1:01:49 “to stabilize the baby’s condition.”
1:01:50 And the pharmacist says,
1:01:52 “Hey, you don’t have the authority for this.”
1:01:55 And she says, “Listen, this might not be my job
1:01:57 “but it’s my responsibility, give me the medication.”
1:01:58 She signed up with her own name,
1:02:00 brought the medication back.
1:02:02 Monday morning, all the doctors came in
1:02:05 and they see the baby breastfeeding.
1:02:07 And they’re like, “Did she deliver twins?
1:02:08 “What the heck happened there?”
1:02:10 And the mom just pointed at Mary and said,
1:02:12 “That’s the reason why my baby’s still alive.”
1:02:13 Because she was in the room.
1:02:17 She stayed Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday
1:02:19 to make sure my baby was still alive.
1:02:21 So I heard that story and I asked her,
1:02:22 “Listen, what made you stay there?
1:02:24 “You were off the weekend.”
1:02:26 Like, it was, everyone just made the decision.
1:02:31 She said, “Yasser, I realized that it was not my job.
1:02:33 “It was my responsibility.”
1:02:35 So the message I wanna give your audiences,
1:02:36 it’s not your job to rehearse.
1:02:37 It’s not your job to be prepared.
1:02:39 It’s not your job to have stories and messages.
1:02:41 But if what you’re talking about,
1:02:43 if what you say and do is important,
1:02:45 it is your responsibility to prepare
1:02:48 and rehearse for every single time you open your mouth.
1:02:50 – Oh my gosh, so good.
1:02:52 And such a great example of storytelling
1:02:53 and good storytelling.
1:02:54 Thank you, Yasser.
1:02:56 I end my show with two questions
1:02:58 and they ask all my guests.
1:03:01 The first one is what is one actionable thing
1:03:03 my young and profitors can do today
1:03:06 to become more profitable tomorrow?
1:03:08 – Tell the stories they wish they could have heard
1:03:10 when they were a child.
1:03:12 – Why when they were a child specifically?
1:03:14 – Because that’s where a lot of our trauma develops.
1:03:16 That’s where a lot of our needs and wants develops
1:03:18 and we don’t really visit them often.
1:03:20 If you look at public speaking anxiety specifically,
1:03:22 most of it happens because some teacher said something,
1:03:24 your parents were really scolding you.
1:03:26 So what would that person need to hear?
1:03:28 And then think of the stories that that person
1:03:30 would need to hear because all the adults
1:03:31 in the room you’re talking to,
1:03:33 they’re just growing up kids with the same exact drama.
1:03:35 So think of those stories and tell those stories.
1:03:37 – And what is your secret to profiting in life?
1:03:39 And this can go beyond business,
1:03:41 beyond the topic of today’s episode.
1:03:43 What is your secret to profiting in life?
1:03:45 – I’ll leave you with one last piece of advice
1:03:47 that my client gave me.
1:03:49 Are you familiar with the brand Lumi Deodorant Hala?
1:03:50 – Yes.
1:03:53 – The founder is one of our client of mine, Shannon Klingman.
1:03:54 She’s had the biggest impact on me.
1:03:58 In fact, I have her mail brand deodorant on my desk as well.
1:03:59 – Love it.
1:04:00 – When she got in a call with me,
1:04:02 I didn’t want to work with her because I was full.
1:04:04 I have no capacity.
1:04:06 And she said, whatever it is, let me know,
1:04:07 let’s just work together.
1:04:10 I said, listen, I just didn’t want to work with her.
1:04:12 It’s $5,000 a month.
1:04:14 I wanted to push her away.
1:04:16 And she said two words I will never forget.
1:04:18 She said, that’s it.
1:04:19 What do you mean?
1:04:19 It’s $5,000, that’s it?
1:04:21 That’s all you charge?
1:04:23 She was skeptical of me because of my price.
1:04:25 I have never in my life heard that.
1:04:26 After we worked together, she said,
1:04:28 Yasser, I would have paid you 25 grand
1:04:29 for the work we did together.
1:04:31 What the heck are you doing?
1:04:32 I said, listen, I’m on public speaking coach.
1:04:34 There’s a million of them out there.
1:04:35 Why would you pay me 25 grand?
1:04:38 She said, you know what made my brand successful?
1:04:40 I have the only full body deodorant in the world.
1:04:43 Everyone else has just the deodorant for the armpits.
1:04:45 The reason my brand was successful
1:04:47 is because I wasn’t trying to be better.
1:04:48 I was trying to be different.
1:04:51 So Yasser, be better at being different.
1:04:53 Be better at being different.
1:04:55 That’s why I went to working just with CEOs.
1:04:57 I bought the domain, speak like a CEO.
1:04:59 All my clients are just CEOs.
1:05:01 That’s how I profited in life.
1:05:03 So be better at being different.
1:05:05 – Yeah, so you dropped so many gems.
1:05:06 I feel like everyone learns so much.
1:05:08 Thank you for your time today.
1:05:09 Where can everybody learn more about you
1:05:11 and everything that you do?
1:05:12 – Speak like a CEO.com.
1:05:15 And if you wanna find me on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube,
1:05:16 it’s speaking with Yasser.
1:05:18 – Amazing, thank you so much.
1:05:19 – Thank you.
1:05:27 – While YAP gang, I hope you gained some valuable insights
1:05:29 into the art of public speaking
1:05:31 from my guest today, Yasser Khan.
1:05:34 Like he said, verbal communication is literally
1:05:36 how you show up to the world.
1:05:38 The words that come out of your mouth reflect on you
1:05:40 and your brand every day
1:05:43 and can have a profound impact on your success.
1:05:45 Yasser shared some great practical strategies
1:05:48 that can transform not just only how you communicate,
1:05:50 but also how you connect with your audience,
1:05:53 whether that’s in a boardroom or on a stage.
1:05:55 Here were some of my favorite pointers.
1:05:58 First, varying your volume and pace is essential
1:06:02 for capturing and maintaining your audience’s attention.
1:06:04 Slowing down your speaking pace allows your audience
1:06:07 to absorb information more effectively,
1:06:11 while fluctuations and volume can emphasize key points.
1:06:14 Next, make sure your body language and hand gestures
1:06:15 help the story that you’re telling.
1:06:18 Otherwise, it could just be distracting.
1:06:20 Often the less that you use your hands,
1:06:23 the more confident and in control you appear.
1:06:25 Also, when it comes to the words that you use,
1:06:28 internalize what you wanna say, don’t memorize it,
1:06:32 and avoid big words and overly complex language or jargon.
1:06:34 Keep things simple and use analogies and metaphors
1:06:37 to help others understand concepts.
1:06:39 By mastering basic techniques like this,
1:06:41 you can ensure that your message resonates
1:06:43 long after you finished speaking.
1:06:45 Thanks for listening to this episode
1:06:47 of Young and Profiting Podcast.
1:06:48 If you listened, learned, and profited
1:06:51 from the public speaking insights of Yostra Khan,
1:06:54 then why not let somebody else do the same?
1:06:57 And if you did enjoy this show and you learned something,
1:06:59 then please take a couple of minutes
1:07:02 to drop us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
1:07:04 or wherever you listen to this show.
1:07:06 I don’t think anything makes me happier
1:07:08 than getting a new review.
1:07:12 I read them every single day and they always make my day.
1:07:13 If you’re looking for me,
1:07:16 you can find me on Instagram @YapWithHala or LinkedIn
1:07:19 by searching my name, it’s Hala Taha.
1:07:22 If you like to watch your podcasts as videos,
1:07:25 you can find all of our episodes on YouTube.
1:07:26 And finally, a quick shout out
1:07:28 to my production team here at Yap Media.
1:07:30 You guys are all absolute rock stars.
1:07:32 Thank you for all that you do.
1:07:34 This is your host, Hala Taha,
1:07:37 AKA the podcast princess, signing off.
1:07:39 (upbeat music)
1:07:42 (upbeat music)
1:07:44 (upbeat music)
1:07:47 (upbeat music)
1:07:50 (upbeat music)
1:07:58 [BLANK_AUDIO]

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0:01:13 (upbeat music)
0:01:23 What’s up, YAP Fam?
0:01:26 Earlier this week, we aired my latest interview
0:01:28 with a remarkable investor, entrepreneur
0:01:31 and influencer, Cody Sanchez.
0:01:32 We talked about the gospel of ownership
0:01:35 and our new book, “Main Street Millionaire.”
0:01:38 It’s all about how you can become extraordinarily wealthy
0:01:40 from buying very ordinary businesses.
0:01:43 If you haven’t checked it out, then believe me,
0:01:46 you’ll want to do so, but why stop there?
0:01:47 Last year in episode 231,
0:01:49 I interviewed Cody for the first time
0:01:52 as you’re about to hear in this YAP Classic.
0:01:53 We talked about her background
0:01:55 as an award-winning journalist,
0:01:58 her jobs at places like Goldman Sachs and Vanguard,
0:02:01 and how she gave it all up to become an entrepreneur
0:02:03 and investor with her own portfolio
0:02:06 of what she calls boring businesses.
0:02:09 Cody shared some of her contrarian investment ideas
0:02:11 about how to earn horizontal income
0:02:13 and create multiple revenue streams,
0:02:15 as well as some tips for buying boring businesses
0:02:18 like laundromats, car washes or vending machines.
0:02:20 So young and profitors take some time this week
0:02:22 and listen to both of these conversations
0:02:24 with Cody Sanchez.
0:02:25 They’re packed full of insights
0:02:27 about how you can transform yourself
0:02:30 into a fully-fledged, financially independent business owner
0:02:33 by learning how to spot some awesome investment opportunities
0:02:35 that are right under your nose.
0:02:38 And here she is, Cody Sanchez.
0:02:43 Cody, thank you so much for being here today
0:02:44 on Young and Profiting Podcast.
0:02:45 Welcome to the show.
0:02:48 – Thanks, I’m excited to be here, finally, actually,
0:02:51 since we messed up earlier, but now we’re gonna crush it.
0:02:53 – Yeah, we had some technical difficulties,
0:02:55 but all that matters is that you’re here now.
0:02:58 So, ooh, Sal, let’s just have a great interview.
0:03:00 We’re very, very pumped to have you on the show.
0:03:03 I was telling you off camera how excited I was
0:03:05 to have you on the show because it’s not so often
0:03:08 I have such a great female business leader
0:03:11 on the podcast, really few and far between.
0:03:13 So I appreciate you coming on the show.
0:03:15 So you have an unorthodox background
0:03:16 for an entrepreneur and investor.
0:03:18 You actually started as a journalist.
0:03:21 You started back home in your state of Arizona
0:03:23 and not just any old journalist.
0:03:24 You were an award-winning journalist
0:03:26 that covered really important issues
0:03:28 like human trafficking, drug smuggling
0:03:30 and Mexico border issues.
0:03:34 So can you tell us what made you get into journalism
0:03:36 and why you ultimately left that field?
0:03:39 – Idealism, really, you’re young and you wanna save the world
0:03:42 but you haven’t even figured out your own life.
0:03:43 And I think that was me.
0:03:45 And so, if you’re young and listening,
0:03:48 I imagine there’s a moment in time where you think
0:03:50 everything’s screwed up, nothing’s the way it should be
0:03:52 and I’m gonna be the one to fix it.
0:03:54 That was me at a young age.
0:03:56 And I thought, it doesn’t seem right
0:04:00 that so many people don’t have while few have.
0:04:01 It doesn’t seem right that I’m Latina
0:04:03 and a bunch of Latinos are hanging out to dry
0:04:07 along the US Mexico border and maybe I could make an impact.
0:04:09 And I think that was a noble, beautiful idea
0:04:13 in a lot of ways, but also pretty ridiculous in some.
0:04:16 Which is that I really hadn’t figured out life in general
0:04:18 and it’s hard to give much if you don’t know much.
0:04:21 And so, at that time, I was in school,
0:04:24 I graduated about a year early from Harvard to the West
0:04:26 really, AKA Arizona State.
0:04:31 And I was looking for what my purpose was gonna be in life
0:04:32 and I needed to make some money
0:04:34 ’cause I didn’t have any either.
0:04:37 And so, I got a grant from the Howard Buffett Foundation
0:04:41 and decided that I was going to go cover border issues
0:04:42 along the US Mexico border.
0:04:46 And I did that for a while until I really realized
0:04:49 there is a difference between being the one
0:04:53 that tells the stories and getting someone’s story rewritten.
0:04:55 I wasn’t rewriting anyone’s story.
0:04:58 I was just telling them in an almost voyeuristic way
0:05:01 to avoid of humans that really didn’t make much change
0:05:02 and that didn’t sit well with me.
0:05:04 And so, I thought I better figure out
0:05:05 how to become something besides a journalist
0:05:08 or I’m gonna become very jaded, very young.
0:05:10 – So then, from my understanding,
0:05:11 you went into the finance world,
0:05:13 you ended up working at Vanguard,
0:05:16 Golden Sachs, you were head of Latin American investments
0:05:19 for First Trust, really exciting stuff.
0:05:21 And you were in corporate for 12 years
0:05:25 before you decided to take the golden handcuffs off.
0:05:27 So why do you feel like you were in golden handcuffs
0:05:30 and what made you ultimately leave the finance world?
0:05:32 – It’s amazing how fast 12 years flashes,
0:05:33 which is something only old people say,
0:05:34 which apparently I’m nearing.
0:05:38 But the beautiful part about working in corporate America
0:05:40 is you learn on somebody else’s dime.
0:05:44 And I’m a huge advocate for failing often
0:05:46 without the ability to bankrupt yourself.
0:05:49 These days, there’s so much entrepreneurship porn
0:05:51 about how you have to sleep on somebody’s couch
0:05:52 and you’ve gotta do it the hard way.
0:05:53 And if you weren’t homeless for a minute,
0:05:55 you’re never gonna make it.
0:05:56 And I don’t actually think that’s true.
0:05:59 I think you right now could be working in a corporate job
0:06:03 and feel like you are stuck because your lifestyle
0:06:05 has crept up to the point where it matches
0:06:08 or sometimes even exceeds what you’re making,
0:06:10 even if you’re making a decent amount of money.
0:06:13 And those handcuffs will tie you to a job you hate,
0:06:16 working for people you don’t like on things you don’t want
0:06:18 where you are no longer the architect of your life.
0:06:20 And that’s what happened to me
0:06:21 and what I mean by golden handcuffs.
0:06:24 They’re self-imposed, but they’re still there.
0:06:27 – Yeah, and I really like how you’re highlighting
0:06:29 that you didn’t feel that this 12 years was a waste.
0:06:32 You actually gained a lot of experiences.
0:06:33 And without those 12 years in corporate,
0:06:35 you wouldn’t have gained the skills that you know now
0:06:37 to buy all these businesses.
0:06:39 And I’m sure you learned a lot from private equity
0:06:42 and this area in the world in terms of how you’re investing
0:06:44 as an everyday person now, is that right?
0:06:45 – Absolutely.
0:06:49 I mean, I was a young idiot just like the rest of us.
0:06:51 When I was first investing, I thought I knew everything
0:06:53 until I lost my first dollar and then a couple dollars
0:06:55 and then a couple more dollars.
0:06:59 And so big corporations are soul-sucking in many ways.
0:07:02 But one thing they do well is they usually invest a lot
0:07:05 in their employees because they understand the numbers,
0:07:07 which is simply that if you hire somebody
0:07:09 and then that person doesn’t work out,
0:07:14 you typically spend at least twice the cost of anywhere
0:07:16 from three to six months of their salary.
0:07:18 In some companies, it could even be a year.
0:07:21 So you basically waste hundreds of thousands of dollars
0:07:24 for every employee you hire that doesn’t work out.
0:07:26 And so they do a lot to try to train the people
0:07:29 that they have in the seats that they need them.
0:07:31 And I benefited from that.
0:07:32 One of the companies that was at Vanguard,
0:07:35 they told us, who knows if that’s true,
0:07:37 that they spent about $100,000 on the training
0:07:39 of the group that I was in,
0:07:41 which was this accelerated development program.
0:07:43 So I actually think you can learn a ton
0:07:45 by working for somebody else.
0:07:46 And you’ve probably seen this too,
0:07:49 because in internet land, there are a bunch of people
0:07:51 that have never worked for anybody,
0:07:55 that have never been an employee, never had an employee,
0:07:57 never had a boss, never really been a boss,
0:08:01 except maybe to vendors or some one-off individuals.
0:08:04 And they’re almost kind of like these cute little morons
0:08:08 running around with no idea how real business works.
0:08:10 And I think it’s a huge disservice to them.
0:08:13 And if they had just spent like a few years working
0:08:15 for or with somebody else,
0:08:17 then they could go jump to the next level
0:08:19 and build something big as opposed to what happens
0:08:21 is they build something kind of big fast,
0:08:23 but then they don’t know how to sustain it,
0:08:24 what a business is, what a P&L is.
0:08:26 And that’s actually all hard to learn
0:08:28 while you’re on the rocket ship.
0:08:29 – I completely agree with you.
0:08:31 And I’ve seen that for myself.
0:08:33 So we both started in corporate.
0:08:35 And for me, I was at Hewlett Packard in Disney,
0:08:38 had leadership roles, I ended up leaving.
0:08:40 A lot of it had to do with COVID
0:08:42 and having more opportunity and starting a side hustle.
0:08:44 But at the same time, I also felt a little bit
0:08:46 like I didn’t get the same respect
0:08:48 like other people my age
0:08:51 with the same experience level of experience.
0:08:53 And so I decided to leave the corporate world.
0:08:54 I’m wondering from your perspective,
0:08:58 did you feel like any sort of patriarchy
0:08:59 in the corporate world
0:09:01 or were you treated differently as a woman?
0:09:03 – Yeah, I mean, I’ve had my,
0:09:04 I’ve had my ass grabbed more times
0:09:06 that I count finance for sure.
0:09:08 And that was 12 years ago.
0:09:10 So could you imagine like 20 or 30?
0:09:12 I mean, they must have just been,
0:09:14 no wonder those women are kind of hard.
0:09:15 I remember when I was coming up
0:09:19 and there were a few, very few women above me in finance.
0:09:20 You know, I was always like, oh,
0:09:21 I don’t want to turn into her.
0:09:23 She seems kind of mean and mad.
0:09:25 And I kind of get why, actually,
0:09:27 because there was always sort of, there was allowed to be one.
0:09:30 It wasn’t a real rule, but it was kind of there.
0:09:31 On the flip side though,
0:09:33 I do think you get to choose your reality.
0:09:35 And the reality that I chose was,
0:09:36 I look different than everybody else.
0:09:38 You look different than everybody else.
0:09:42 So every Chad, Brad, Tom, Matt, Larry
0:09:45 is gonna be forgotten in their gray, blue, or black suit.
0:09:48 And I’m gonna be probably remembered
0:09:50 just for having a name that’s a little bit different.
0:09:52 And I look slightly different than them.
0:09:54 And the way that I communicate my skill set
0:09:55 comes across differently.
0:09:58 So I think there’s huge benefit
0:10:01 to being slightly outside the norm.
0:10:03 And our lizard brains just don’t realize it
0:10:05 because we still think that we’re on the savannah
0:10:08 and could be eaten by a lion at any point
0:10:10 when it feels slightly uncomfortable to not fit in.
0:10:13 But it took me a long time to get that.
0:10:14 I mean, I remember one time,
0:10:15 I’m sure you have stories like this too,
0:10:17 but I remember one time,
0:10:19 I kind of was giving somebody a hard time
0:10:21 about the way they were acting at a company event
0:10:22 and they had been drinking.
0:10:25 And I thought that they were making some poor life choices.
0:10:28 And so I said something like that to one of them, a gentleman.
0:10:30 And he was like, and this is why we don’t hire women.
0:10:34 And I was like, whoa, oh God, there it is.
0:10:37 But on the same vein, at that point,
0:10:39 I was just kind of like, hey, fuck you, man.
0:10:40 Like what a dumb thing to say.
0:10:42 You’ve been drinking too much, go home.
0:10:43 And then the next day he comes in,
0:10:45 he’s like, I’m super embarrassed.
0:10:46 What a silly thing to say.
0:10:49 And so I think there’s always colors for shades of gray
0:10:51 to the fact that for a long time,
0:10:53 men have been in charge of much.
0:10:56 But I also have an incredible dad and an incredible husband
0:10:58 and incredible guy friends that have lifted me up.
0:11:00 And so I try not to paint paint too,
0:11:03 but broad of strokes for one particular sex or the other.
0:11:05 – I love that perspective.
0:11:07 I really, really agree with your approach.
0:11:09 It’s like, there are some downsides
0:11:10 and some things that you have to deal with,
0:11:12 but there’s also a lot of opportunity
0:11:15 and looking different and being different and standing out.
0:11:18 And a lot of people are really supportive
0:11:19 in the corporate world as well.
0:11:22 Okay, so let’s talk about contrarian thinking.
0:11:24 I really want to go deep on this and get an understanding.
0:11:27 So you have a blog called Contrarian Thinking.
0:11:29 You talk about this topic a lot
0:11:32 and the benefits of being a contrarian investor.
0:11:35 So what is the transformation that you take people through
0:11:38 in terms of gaining financial freedom
0:11:40 through this approach?
0:11:44 – It started in 2020 when what I really wanted to do
0:11:46 is I wanted humans to question any of the narratives
0:11:48 that were being thrown at them.
0:11:50 That point, I’m really big on one thing,
0:11:52 which is freedom for every human
0:11:56 to make their own personal life choices as often as they can.
0:11:59 And my understanding at a baseline
0:12:02 from starting in Latin America was
0:12:04 the difference between me, Last Name Sanchez
0:12:06 and all these other Last Name Sanchezes
0:12:08 was really that I had some economic freedom.
0:12:11 I was born like lower middle class in the U.S.
0:12:14 And so I had more opportunity than a lot of these people do.
0:12:18 And so I thought, gosh, if finance is the cornerstone
0:12:20 to financial freedom, if it’s at the bottom,
0:12:23 then the next level is physical freedom.
0:12:24 So like you can do what you want,
0:12:25 where you want with whom you want.
0:12:28 And then at the top of it is philosophical freedom,
0:12:32 AKA I can think what I want, I can do what I want.
0:12:34 I can’t get people to think for themselves
0:12:36 until they feel safe and secure for the most part.
0:12:38 It’s hard for most people to do that.
0:12:39 They need a roof over their head,
0:12:41 they need to know they can pay their rent.
0:12:43 And so contrarian thinking came from this idea of,
0:12:45 I want people to think differently,
0:12:47 but my Trojan horse is money.
0:12:50 It’s if I can tell you how to become
0:12:52 really ridiculously wealthy,
0:12:55 then, and I can kind of glean that towards humans
0:12:57 that I think are by and large good
0:12:59 because they also believe in freedom,
0:13:01 which I find is an underlying principle,
0:13:02 is really important.
0:13:04 Then that means finally,
0:13:06 once these people become financially free,
0:13:09 they can share this pervasive mentality I have,
0:13:10 which is we should question the world around us
0:13:12 and that should be okay.
0:13:13 And so at contrarian thinking, that’s what we do.
0:13:15 We talk about civilizing the mind,
0:13:17 we talk about building the bank account,
0:13:19 and we talk about making savage the body
0:13:22 because you need to have a strong bank account,
0:13:24 to have a strong mind,
0:13:27 and in order to have a strong mind and bank account,
0:13:29 it often really doesn’t make any sense
0:13:32 if you’re unhealthy and sick and overweight and fat.
0:13:36 And so let’s try to have this kind of third degree black belt
0:13:38 in three areas of our life.
0:13:41 And that is a life’s pursuit that I think is worthy.
0:13:41 – Interesting.
0:13:44 And then in terms of contrarian investing,
0:13:48 from my understanding, the basic definition of this
0:13:50 is basically going against market trends.
0:13:52 So you sell when other people buy,
0:13:53 you buy when other people sell,
0:13:56 but I think you’ve got a lot more that goes into this.
0:13:58 So can you elaborate more in terms of
0:14:00 what you mean by contrarian investments?
0:14:02 – Sure, I can’t remember.
0:14:04 It’s a famous investor, but I can’t remember which.
0:14:05 It might have been Carl Icahn
0:14:06 or it could have been Warren Buffett,
0:14:08 but one of them said,
0:14:09 in order to make a lot of money in investing,
0:14:11 you have to do two things.
0:14:13 You have to be contrarian and then you have to be right.
0:14:15 And that tends to be true,
0:14:19 but very hard to do, although simple to say.
0:14:22 And what I’ve found is that you don’t have to be
0:14:25 the most intelligent person out there
0:14:28 if you can find where the narrative is different
0:14:29 from the numbers.
0:14:30 And what do I mean by that?
0:14:34 These days, the narrative is what you hear on Twitter
0:14:37 and Instagram everywhere, which is AI is incredible.
0:14:41 And the next GPT launch and the, you know,
0:14:44 my new startup that’s raised $50 million
0:14:45 from these venture capitalists,
0:14:48 this is the altar at which we pray
0:14:51 as Americans in capitalism right now.
0:14:52 And so if that’s the narrative,
0:14:55 then I started looking at the numbers and I said, okay,
0:14:57 well, I kind of get it from a venture capitalist perspective,
0:14:59 the people given the cash out,
0:15:02 they make a lot of money because they give it
0:15:03 a lot of money to a lot of people
0:15:06 and like two out of 10 of every their portfolio companies
0:15:09 make it big and those two out of 10 have to hit 100X
0:15:13 to wipe out the fact that the other eight largely lost.
0:15:15 And so I was like, huh, that’s the truth.
0:15:17 Then we have eight founders in that mix
0:15:19 that spent on average three to 10 years
0:15:23 hating their life, sleeping on floors, making no money
0:15:26 and eventually failing in their startups.
0:15:27 And that is what it takes to innovate
0:15:29 at a venture capital level.
0:15:32 So I thought, well, where are the numbers different
0:15:33 for founders and entrepreneurs?
0:15:37 If that game has 80% potential failure rate,
0:15:39 where is there an 80% potential win rate?
0:15:42 And what I found is there in something called
0:15:43 boring everyday businesses.
0:15:46 When you buy a business that’s already profitable,
0:15:48 that is already operating as is
0:15:50 and that business has been in existence
0:15:53 for more than three years, in some cases, 20 years
0:15:55 and you know that that business has done X
0:15:58 for the past three or 20 years,
0:16:00 the likelihood of it can continue to do X
0:16:03 for the next three or 20 years is pretty high.
0:16:06 So as long as you don’t spend too much money acquiring it
0:16:08 and you structure the deal right
0:16:09 and you know how to analyze it,
0:16:11 you’re de-risked as opposed to a startup
0:16:13 where you have to pray, hopes and dreams
0:16:14 that you can succeed.
0:16:16 And so that’s the way we think about
0:16:18 can train investing right now.
0:16:22 I think the trade is in these boring everyday businesses
0:16:23 but it’s really finding that difference
0:16:25 between the noise and the narrative.
0:16:28 – I’m so excited for this conversation, Cody,
0:16:30 because even as me, I’m an entrepreneur,
0:16:32 my company is something that I founded,
0:16:35 it’s really innovative, but I’m really excited
0:16:38 about the idea of investing in boring businesses
0:16:40 that really might not be a lot of legwork
0:16:43 for me to start up and have some passive income.
0:16:45 So very excited about this episode
0:16:46 and I think a lot of our listeners
0:16:48 are gonna be really excited about this topic
0:16:50 ’cause nobody’s really talking about this
0:16:52 even though it’s bubbling up
0:16:55 with you sort of leading the charge honestly, so okay.
0:16:58 – Can I interrupt for one second?
0:16:59 – Of course.
0:17:00 – There’s two words you said there
0:17:03 that I’m so particular on these days, passive income.
0:17:06 I know you don’t actually live by the mantra
0:17:08 that so many people on the internet does
0:17:09 because you’re an entrepreneur,
0:17:11 you’ve built something, it’s a profitable thing,
0:17:13 you’ve been in businesses, you’ve been in exec
0:17:16 at high level companies, but I think these days,
0:17:19 those words used to not bother me and now they do
0:17:23 because what passive income meant back then was
0:17:25 your time wasn’t tied to making money
0:17:27 and so if you own a piece of real estate
0:17:29 and somebody lives in that but you don’t,
0:17:31 you could make money that is unrelated
0:17:33 to the work you are doing.
0:17:35 Now I like to use the word horizontal income
0:17:37 because passive income has become used
0:17:40 by a bunch of 20-year-olds on the internet
0:17:43 telling you you can get rich in 36 or 90 days
0:17:45 if you follow my foolproof plan.
0:17:46 Although oh, by the way, I only make money
0:17:48 by telling you about my foolproof plan,
0:17:50 not actually doing the thing.
0:17:52 Huge issue and you’ve seen them too.
0:17:55 This shit is not easy but it is simple.
0:17:58 There is a road to follow but nothing I talk about
0:17:59 is like click a button and oh, by the way,
0:18:01 you’ve got an Airbnb arbitrage model
0:18:03 and you’re just off to making hundreds of thousands
0:18:05 that doesn’t work, it doesn’t work.
0:18:07 If it worked, nobody would tell you about it,
0:18:09 they would just do it all by themselves
0:18:11 and so I talk about horizontal income.
0:18:13 Vertical income is like your salary.
0:18:15 So you work at a company, you’re there eight to five,
0:18:16 you make money when you’re there.
0:18:19 Horizontal income means you might have a little bit
0:18:21 of your time along the top, kind of like this.
0:18:25 Sometime always involved basically no matter what
0:18:27 but you could stack lots of them
0:18:30 because you could have a real estate portfolio over here,
0:18:32 you could have a stock portfolio over here,
0:18:34 you could have a boring business that you find
0:18:37 and operate or run so it only takes you a few hours a week
0:18:39 but there will be an upfront cost.
0:18:41 All right, thanks for coming to my TED Talk,
0:18:43 that’s my rant on passive income.
0:18:46 – I appreciate you differentiating that
0:18:48 and I agree with you 100%.
0:18:51 By passive income, I basically meant like instead of,
0:18:53 I’m always having to think of new processes,
0:18:55 how do I build this, how do I do this?
0:18:57 Whereas when you buy a boring business,
0:19:00 according to stuff that I read from you,
0:19:02 you need SOPs, you need to make sure
0:19:03 that everything’s already in place
0:19:06 so you can kind of take it and scale it, right?
0:19:08 Instead of having to create everything from scratch.
0:19:10 So I just meant it’s sort of easier
0:19:13 than having to reinvent the wheel every single time
0:19:14 starting your own business.
0:19:17 – Totally, you know, my father said something
0:19:19 that always sticks with me, which he was like,
0:19:23 you haven’t actually been an entrepreneur or run a company
0:19:26 until you’ve woken up at two in the morning
0:19:30 in the middle of the night and sat in your living room
0:19:33 on your couch in the absolute darkness
0:19:35 and wondered, how are you gonna figure any of this out?
0:19:37 And until you’ve had that moment
0:19:40 where you just are not sure,
0:19:43 you are living in a cloud of uncertainty
0:19:46 and that uncertainty feels catastrophic,
0:19:48 you’ve probably never run something
0:19:51 and you’ve probably never built something.
0:19:53 I think we can decrease that likelihood,
0:19:56 but at some point for almost anybody who’s willing
0:19:58 to do a hard thing, like own their life
0:20:01 and own their outcome and own their own business,
0:20:02 there will be a moment.
0:20:04 And so I think you’re exactly right.
0:20:06 It’s like, can we ready people for that?
0:20:08 But tell them that it’s so worth it.
0:20:11 Just like you’re gonna feel sore after you do a workout,
0:20:12 but you’re gonna be glad you did it.
0:20:14 – I totally agree with you, Cody.
0:20:16 Let’s hold that thought
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0:25:10 So let’s talk about this idea
0:25:12 of having multiple income streams.
0:25:14 I’ve been running this podcast for five years
0:25:17 and I always see like trends in and out, right?
0:25:18 So like when I first started,
0:25:20 everyone was like multiple income streams.
0:25:24 And then lately, lots of talk about focus on one thing.
0:25:26 Like just how to Alex Ramosian, Layla Hermose.
0:25:28 Their whole thing is like focus on one thing,
0:25:30 Matt Higgins, former shark.
0:25:31 Also said the same thing,
0:25:33 like really just focus on one thing.
0:25:35 Later on, once you’re rich,
0:25:37 you can diversify your portfolio.
0:25:39 But in the beginning, focus on one thing
0:25:41 and get really good at it and get rich from it.
0:25:45 So I know that you suggest you have multiple income streams.
0:25:46 Do you wanna give your perspective
0:25:49 on what you think about this topic?
0:25:49 – Yeah.
0:25:52 Well, I’m friends with Alex and Layla, so I love them.
0:25:54 I think there’s multiple things.
0:25:56 One, I just don’t like risk.
0:25:58 I want to never have a likelihood
0:26:01 where I can’t pay my mortgage or pay my rent.
0:26:03 I don’t want you to sit there wondering
0:26:05 if you’re going to have to pack up and move the kids out
0:26:07 because you have taken one huge swing
0:26:09 and you have fallen down short.
0:26:12 What we forget is what the numbers tell us.
0:26:13 I go back to the numbers.
0:26:17 And the numbers tell us that most small businesses fail,
0:26:19 that most startups never even make it
0:26:21 to their first million dollars.
0:26:22 For every case on Twitter,
0:26:25 showing you how easy it is to start something,
0:26:27 if you go to the numbers,
0:26:31 it tells you that that is an anomaly by and large.
0:26:34 And so for me, somebody asked me the other day
0:26:36 in one of our groups where we talk about buying businesses,
0:26:38 they were like, I have a $250,000 job,
0:26:40 I’m working at a company,
0:26:42 but I really want to focus on buying a small business.
0:26:44 I don’t know if I can do both at once,
0:26:45 should I quit my job?
0:26:48 I was like, absolutely not, absolutely not.
0:26:49 You should keep that income
0:26:52 and take a small incremental risk
0:26:54 that allows you to get to the next step.
0:26:57 The hard work is like, yeah,
0:26:58 why don’t you work two jobs for a period?
0:27:00 I’m not saying there’s like a free lunch thing,
0:27:02 but don’t put yourself in a position
0:27:04 where you’re not able to feed your family or yourself.
0:27:06 I don’t think that’s necessary.
0:27:07 Now, to their point,
0:27:10 there’s something called the 80/20 rule or Pareto’s law,
0:27:13 which is basically that 80% of your outcomes
0:27:15 will come from the 20% of the things that you do
0:27:16 and almost everything in life.
0:27:18 And so I do think they’re right
0:27:21 in that focus is critical.
0:27:24 In my business right now, I own 26 businesses,
0:27:27 but 80% of my time goes to one business.
0:27:29 And the rest of those businesses
0:27:32 are operating with independent operators
0:27:33 like a private equity model.
0:27:36 If I had to split focus between 26 businesses,
0:27:38 I wouldn’t be here.
0:27:40 And so there’s this balance
0:27:42 where two things can be true and have nuance,
0:27:45 which is if you feel something so strongly
0:27:47 that you couldn’t sleep for the want of it,
0:27:49 you have to build it, then do it
0:27:51 and focus on that thing exclusively.
0:27:52 But for a lot of people, they’re like,
0:27:55 man, I just wanna spend three more weeks this summer
0:27:59 with my kids, or I just wanna go on one more vacation
0:28:01 that I can, or like, I’d like to just not have to worry
0:28:05 about the price of guacamole and avocados on the side.
0:28:07 And so for me, wouldn’t it be nice
0:28:09 if I could just have this little extra?
0:28:12 And so anytime anybody’s listening to anyone,
0:28:14 including me, I think you should be asking yourself,
0:28:17 do I just want this because that’s what she is saying,
0:28:19 as that’s what he is saying,
0:28:21 or do I actually want this myself?
0:28:23 And where can I question everything
0:28:24 and find the truth for me?
0:28:25 Because there is no one truth.
0:28:28 There is just what is appropriate for you.
0:28:29 – Exactly.
0:28:31 We talk about that a lot on this show,
0:28:32 like defining your rich life.
0:28:35 We had Ramit Sadion, and he was talking about
0:28:37 defining your rich life, what that means to you.
0:28:39 Okay, unconventional acquisitions.
0:28:40 So you have this program.
0:28:41 And by the end of it,
0:28:44 you hope that these people have 12 different
0:28:47 income streams after one year.
0:28:49 And I read that the average millionaire
0:28:50 has seven to 10 income streams.
0:28:52 So it’s no wonder why you want people
0:28:54 to have these multiple income streams.
0:28:57 Can you help us understand what this might look like
0:28:59 having 12 different income streams?
0:29:00 How is that manageable?
0:29:01 I know you mentioned, you know,
0:29:04 some things previously in terms of having operators
0:29:05 for some of them.
0:29:07 But can you just walk us through how that’s manageable
0:29:10 and give us an example of what that looks like?
0:29:11 – Yeah, so what I really want people to do
0:29:12 is learn the framework.
0:29:16 So I want you to be able to buy your first business
0:29:18 that either supplements your salary
0:29:20 if you want to exit your company
0:29:22 or supplements your expenses.
0:29:23 And so I want to teach people,
0:29:25 how do you buy a small business
0:29:27 that can either replace what I’m making right now
0:29:29 or that can replace my expenses
0:29:31 so that I can continue to do the work
0:29:33 if I want to at my job.
0:29:34 But I never have to.
0:29:36 I can have my fuck you fund
0:29:38 that’s funded from something else.
0:29:40 And so that’s the first step.
0:29:41 And then what you’ll quickly realize
0:29:43 is once you buy a business
0:29:45 and the average person who goes through our program
0:29:47 buys a business typically in 11 months
0:29:50 and that business is somewhere between $100,000
0:29:52 to $10 million in total revenue.
0:29:53 And we screen people
0:29:55 because not everybody should do this.
0:29:58 And so we screen them to kind of make sure,
0:30:00 are you sure you’re ready for this?
0:30:02 And what I’ve found is what happens
0:30:04 is you’ll buy your first business
0:30:07 and then you’ll spend anywhere from 90 days
0:30:09 to a year, a year and a half
0:30:11 kind of stabilizing that business, running through it.
0:30:13 But then you’re going to add different
0:30:15 what I call revenue lines
0:30:18 that could be income lines to an individual
0:30:19 through your business.
0:30:22 So you’re going to say, all right, I bought a laundromat
0:30:24 and now I want to increase the revenue of the laundromat.
0:30:26 So I’m going to add vending machines
0:30:28 as another revenue line.
0:30:30 And then because I see how that works,
0:30:32 I’m going to add vending machines for soap.
0:30:33 And then because I see how that works,
0:30:35 I’m going to add a wash and fold service.
0:30:37 And then I’m going to add a delivery service.
0:30:38 And what you’re basically doing is you’re diversifying
0:30:41 your revenue streams through one business.
0:30:44 So there is a focus or a through line to your business,
0:30:45 but you’re being really smart
0:30:48 in acquiring your new profit centers.
0:30:49 That’s something I wish I learned earlier
0:30:52 because I always thought you had to grow organically.
0:30:55 Like I’ve got to go and I’ve got to get this one customer
0:30:56 or this one client,
0:30:59 but what if instead you could acquire the clients
0:31:01 and wrap them up inside of your business?
0:31:04 And that’s what I tend to do again and again.
0:31:06 But the only caveat I would say there
0:31:11 is that I do think you need to focus on skills early
0:31:12 as opposed to income.
0:31:16 So I have a model that says, learn, earn, invest.
0:31:18 Most people go, I want to invest.
0:31:20 I want to invest and make money.
0:31:21 But really what you have to do is first you have to,
0:31:24 let’s say you wanted to buy a boring business,
0:31:26 you need to spend a minute learning
0:31:28 about buying a boring business.
0:31:31 90 days, some people take a year,
0:31:34 but let’s say that one year trial period
0:31:36 of really learning how to execute on deal making.
0:31:39 And while you’re doing that, I want you to earn money
0:31:39 and I want you to learn
0:31:41 how to increase your earnings potential.
0:31:43 So whether that’s negotiating for a higher salary
0:31:46 or whether that’s getting a better job with a better salary
0:31:48 or whether that’s doing commissions.
0:31:50 And after you’ve done those two things,
0:31:51 then I want you to use that money
0:31:54 and I want you to invest it in something
0:31:56 or invest your time or expertise.
0:31:57 And that’s kind of how I push people
0:32:01 to start thinking about diversification of revenue lines.
0:32:03 – That seems like a really, really smart framework.
0:32:04 Something that I want to follow up on
0:32:07 is you mentioned that you’re screening people
0:32:08 and making sure they’re ready for this.
0:32:11 So what is a typical profile of someone
0:32:13 who might be ready to have a boring business look like?
0:32:15 – I was counting them the other day.
0:32:19 I think there’s six paths to buy a business with $0.
0:32:20 So let me share that with you first
0:32:22 and then it’ll kind of tell you
0:32:25 what type of person can do what.
0:32:26 Because it differs.
0:32:28 So if you want to buy a business with $0,
0:32:30 you can buy a business basically
0:32:32 by using seller financing.
0:32:36 So you can say, hey, I’d really love to buy your podcast.
0:32:38 You don’t want to do it anymore.
0:32:39 How about I take over the business,
0:32:41 your business makes 100K a year,
0:32:44 I’ll pay you 300K for the business over the next three years.
0:32:47 You take all the profits, I’ll grow the business,
0:32:48 anything that’s the Delta’s mine
0:32:50 and I own the business at the end of the year.
0:32:52 So that’s called seller financing, super common.
0:32:54 Then you have revenue share.
0:32:58 So you might say, hey, your podcast is doing awesome
0:33:00 but I bet you could monetize it better.
0:33:01 What if I came on board
0:33:03 and whatever your podcast is making right now,
0:33:04 I don’t want any of that.
0:33:09 But if your podcast, if I could make you an extra 20%
0:33:11 or an extra $200,000 a year,
0:33:14 I’d like 25% of that in perpetuity
0:33:17 and maybe we could negotiate for a percentage of your business,
0:33:18 like 5% of your business.
0:33:20 And so I don’t have to put any money in
0:33:23 but I’ve just given you $200,000 more
0:33:25 for just my sweat equity and revenue share.
0:33:27 And you could do that same thing with profit share.
0:33:28 You could be like,
0:33:30 I’m not gonna do it from top line revenue.
0:33:34 Instead, only when you put dollars in your actual pocket
0:33:38 will I take 20% of the profits that I grow you.
0:33:40 And I’d like to take a small piece of equity
0:33:41 in the business too.
0:33:43 So I get to continue to be paid in perpetuity.
0:33:45 And then you could also say, okay,
0:33:49 what about if you are a business right now
0:33:51 and you have assets.
0:33:53 So let’s say you have a trucking company
0:33:55 or something you have a bunch of trucks.
0:33:56 Why don’t I go get a loan on the trucks?
0:33:58 And because I do a loan on the trucks,
0:34:01 I can buy your business with this capital.
0:34:02 And then the fifth way would be like, I go raise money.
0:34:04 I hear Cody’s got some money.
0:34:06 I hear Alex and Layla are flush with cash.
0:34:07 So I’m gonna go ask them for some money.
0:34:08 I’m gonna buy your business.
0:34:09 They’re gonna take a part of it.
0:34:11 I’m gonna take a part of it.
0:34:13 And then the last one is like an asset sale.
0:34:15 So like, oh man, a bunch of businesses
0:34:17 are going over under with COVID.
0:34:22 What if I reached out to my other podcast friends
0:34:25 that aren’t gonna do their podcasts anymore.
0:34:27 And they actually had some sponsors and info products
0:34:29 that they’re just shutting down.
0:34:31 What if instead I kept those going
0:34:32 and I just paid them a commission on them.
0:34:35 So I’m gonna let them have 10% of those products
0:34:36 for the next three years.
0:34:38 And the rest goes to me and I’ll run it all.
0:34:39 Don’t worry about it.
0:34:42 And so we could do an asset purchase.
0:34:45 And so when the people come into the group,
0:34:47 what I say to them is it really depends
0:34:49 on what type of purchase you’re gonna do.
0:34:51 You could buy a business tomorrow
0:34:54 with very little risk if you do a revenue share,
0:34:57 a profit share, an asset sale.
0:34:58 There’s no skin in the game.
0:35:01 And if you go bankrupt or the company fails or anything,
0:35:02 you’re not gonna go bankrupt.
0:35:03 You’re gonna be fine.
0:35:05 Now, if you’re gonna put your own money on the line
0:35:07 or get a loan, we need to make sure
0:35:09 that you have enough money and understanding
0:35:11 of running a business so you’re not gonna go under.
0:35:14 And those are the things that I try to talk people into.
0:35:16 Typically, if you’ve run a business before,
0:35:18 you should be able to buy a business.
0:35:20 If you’ve been an executive company before,
0:35:22 you should be able to buy a business.
0:35:23 If you’ve done real estate before,
0:35:26 you should be able to buy a business.
0:35:29 And if you have some excess cash so that no deal
0:35:31 can ever go sideways enough and ruin
0:35:33 what your momentum you already have,
0:35:34 you could buy a business.
0:35:37 But I’m really conservative again, ’cause I hate risk.
0:35:39 So I’m always like, please, dear Lord,
0:35:40 just don’t come over even and talk to me
0:35:42 if you’re not ready to do the work,
0:35:43 because it does take some.
0:35:45 – Yeah, and I know that a lot of my listeners
0:35:48 are entrepreneurs and as an entrepreneur
0:35:49 and a founder of a company,
0:35:52 you can also use some of these strategies to your advantage.
0:35:55 So for example, all of my executive team,
0:35:56 they’ve just put in sweat equity
0:35:58 or have taken a reduced salary
0:35:59 and they’ve got equity in my company.
0:36:03 But as a result, I have four other really smart people
0:36:05 helping me build my company.
0:36:07 And I go so much further with my team members.
0:36:10 So it’s like a win-win for both parties.
0:36:12 – Exactly, and then what you want them to do,
0:36:14 this is where it’s fun and we can always talk about this later
0:36:16 in case this is too technical for all your people.
0:36:18 But what’s really fun is for somebody like you,
0:36:21 you also have a different type of purchase you can do,
0:36:22 which is audience.
0:36:25 So lots of people like you do sponsorship deals
0:36:27 or add deals and that’s great.
0:36:29 You have a high level of integrity,
0:36:31 so you only do things that are great for your audience.
0:36:33 But you know what a better play would be?
0:36:36 Is you look for a few companies that you really like
0:36:40 and you say, I wanna do distributing equity deal with you.
0:36:41 I’m not gonna take any cash upfront
0:36:43 or I’m gonna take a decreased cash rate.
0:36:47 And instead, I don’t know, I love this notebook company.
0:36:51 And so notebook company, I wanna put you as the sponsor
0:36:55 for all of our podcasts or for some of our podcasts.
0:36:59 And that would typically cost you $100,000 in ad spend.
0:37:03 Instead of that, you’re going to give me $100,000
0:37:07 in value in the company as I drive X, Y, Z metric.
0:37:11 And I want a percentage payout every quarter
0:37:14 based on the ownership percentage I have in the company.
0:37:16 So I wanna profit share or a rev share.
0:37:18 ‘Cause you don’t really wanna do just an equity deal
0:37:20 because then you end up not making any money
0:37:22 and you still gotta pay your employees and everything.
0:37:24 You need some cash to come in.
0:37:25 And so distributing equity is a really cool way
0:37:27 to do a deal if you have an audience.
0:37:28 – Oh, that’s really creative.
0:37:30 And I have a podcast network,
0:37:32 so I will definitely keep that in mind.
0:37:35 Can you give us some insight into how much money
0:37:38 it actually costs to start one of these boring business?
0:37:41 Like what does this investment typically look like
0:37:43 for some of the popular ones?
0:37:43 – Really varies.
0:37:45 I mean, the cool thing about businesses
0:37:47 is you can go as big as you want.
0:37:50 I mean, I was doing deals when I was in private equity
0:37:52 and running my own funds that were hundreds
0:37:52 of millions of dollars.
0:37:55 And I’ve been a part of billion dollar deals,
0:37:57 although I didn’t lead that deal.
0:37:58 So it can totally vary.
0:38:01 What I would say is if you wanna use your own cash,
0:38:03 it’s a good metric to think,
0:38:04 I’m probably gonna have to put something
0:38:09 like at least 10 to 25K down to buy a small business.
0:38:11 Can I put 10 to 25K down?
0:38:13 Then I can use my cash and I can buy a small business
0:38:15 using seller finance.
0:38:17 Like you can do that for sure.
0:38:19 If you want to get creative
0:38:20 and not use any of your own cash,
0:38:24 which I was just talking to Alex and Layla about,
0:38:25 how do we do more transactions
0:38:27 without a bunch of cash up front,
0:38:30 then technically you don’t have to have cash.
0:38:33 You could just do a deal using sweat equity, rev share,
0:38:37 or the fact there are these 11 million small businesses
0:38:39 and they’re looking for homes.
0:38:41 Like these people need to sell.
0:38:43 We had a guy the other day actually
0:38:45 who was in unconventional acquisitions, it was so cool.
0:38:47 So he worked in Phoenix, Arizona
0:38:51 and he was a general contractor.
0:38:52 He was in the construction trade.
0:38:54 I can’t remember if he was general contractor or not.
0:38:57 And he worked for a guy and he’d worked for a guy
0:38:58 for 10 years in this construction business.
0:39:01 But the gentleman who headed the company was getting old
0:39:02 and he listened to one of my things
0:39:04 and then on our next Monday call,
0:39:06 ’cause we do a call every Monday, he got on
0:39:09 and he’s like, I went to my boss essentially
0:39:10 and I sat him down and I said,
0:39:13 “Hey, I don’t know if you were ever thinking about this,
0:39:16 but if you ever were gonna retire from the business
0:39:18 or think about selling the business,
0:39:19 I’d love to talk to you about it
0:39:23 because I would love to buy this business from you
0:39:24 and I’d have to figure out a creative way
0:39:27 to get cash to do it ’cause I don’t have a lot.
0:39:28 But if you’re ever looking for somebody
0:39:29 to take over your business,
0:39:31 I’d love to have that conversation.
0:39:35 And his boss basically was like, oh, this is great.
0:39:36 Like, I’m ready to retire.
0:39:38 I just, none of my kids wanted this.
0:39:39 I didn’t really have any idea.
0:39:41 Would you wanna start figuring out a plan
0:39:42 inside the next 30 days?
0:39:43 He’s like, I only really,
0:39:44 I wanna work like two days a week,
0:39:46 but I don’t wanna work five.
0:39:48 You could just use the profits from the business
0:39:49 to buy it from me.
0:39:51 I can watch and make sure you’re doing a good job.
0:39:53 And if you hit all your metrics within 90 days,
0:39:53 we start to transition over.
0:39:56 He literally had the whole plan for his employee.
0:39:58 And that doesn’t happen every time,
0:39:59 but you’d be so surprised.
0:40:01 Or actually, you wouldn’t probably,
0:40:03 but people listening would be surprised
0:40:06 how often running a business is so tiring
0:40:10 after 10, 20, 30, 40 years.
0:40:12 They’re like, please dear God, take the thing.
0:40:15 But I don’t wanna just shut it because it’s my baby too.
0:40:17 – Yeah, seller financing is something
0:40:19 that we really don’t think about often.
0:40:20 So it’s very interesting.
0:40:22 And something else to your point right now
0:40:25 is finding a highly motivated
0:40:27 person who wants to sell their business.
0:40:29 So talk to us about what we should look for
0:40:31 and why it’s so important to find somebody
0:40:34 who’s actually highly motivated to sell their business.
0:40:34 – It’s so true.
0:40:36 I think you never sell anyone at anything.
0:40:39 You only find people who are already predisposed
0:40:40 to want what you’re selling.
0:40:43 You find people who are ready to sell.
0:40:45 You don’t teach people that they need to sell.
0:40:47 In that case, they kind of look like this.
0:40:49 There’s two archetypes, if you could think about it.
0:40:50 There’s you.
0:40:52 You are young, entrepreneur.
0:40:56 You’ve only been doing it for five years or less.
0:40:58 You’re excited, your business is growing.
0:40:59 It’s in a cool industry.
0:41:01 Your brand’s associated with it.
0:41:03 There’s all this optionality.
0:41:05 You might take some cash as investment
0:41:07 if you wanted to accelerate your company,
0:41:09 but you’re probably not ready to sell your business
0:41:11 because you’re still excited
0:41:12 and there’s all this room for growth
0:41:14 and you have a cool curve.
0:41:15 The opposite and what we’re looking for
0:41:18 is somebody who’s probably over 50.
0:41:21 They’ve run the business for five years or more.
0:41:23 The business has very marginal growth,
0:41:25 three to 5% growth a year.
0:41:27 They’ve been running this business in an area
0:41:29 that’s pretty commoditized.
0:41:33 Think roofing companies, landscaping, the counting,
0:41:37 and they don’t have a big growth plan for the business.
0:41:41 They work a lot typically or they’re looking for change
0:41:46 because of death, divorce, disease, unhappiness.
0:41:48 There’s a different word for it
0:41:51 but I always forget the D for it and also disaster.
0:41:54 They call them like the five Ds of selling
0:41:56 and if one of those is happening,
0:42:00 then you are primed and ready as a motivated seller.
0:42:02 – And then once we find a motivated seller
0:42:04 and we’re evaluating their business,
0:42:07 I’m assuming we need to look at profit and loss statements
0:42:09 but what other things should we look at?
0:42:11 – I think there’s three things you need
0:42:13 to get 80% of the way to a deal
0:42:15 and the devil is in the 20%
0:42:17 but if you wanna get 80% of the way
0:42:19 to figuring out what a business is worth
0:42:22 and maybe should you buy it, you need these three things.
0:42:24 And they are first, you need a profit and loss statement.
0:42:26 So what does the business make
0:42:28 and what does the business spend each month?
0:42:31 And typically you want that to be expanded
0:42:34 so you can look at it weekly and monthly.
0:42:35 You don’t just want an annual one
0:42:38 ’cause some businesses have a lot of what’s called seasonality
0:42:41 so variability in their sales or expenses.
0:42:43 Then the second thing you want is their tax return
0:42:45 because they put together the P&L
0:42:48 but the IRS puts together the tax return
0:42:50 and so very seldom is a small business owner
0:42:53 going to pay the IRS more because they lied
0:42:56 about their business making more than it really did.
0:42:58 So you wanna match those two up.
0:43:00 And then the third thing that you typically need
0:43:03 is there’s in almost all businesses,
0:43:05 there is some, there’s that 80/20 rule again.
0:43:08 There’s like the 20% that really matter.
0:43:10 So let’s do an example of like a car wash.
0:43:12 Your lease really matters
0:43:14 or the cost of the real estate really matters
0:43:16 ’cause that’s one of your biggest expenses.
0:43:18 The utilities really matter
0:43:20 because electricity and water
0:43:22 are one of your biggest expenses.
0:43:24 So you wanna find out what is the other 20%
0:43:28 that is gonna drive 80% of the success of your purchase.
0:43:30 – That makes total sense.
0:43:33 I heard you say before that you should really only
0:43:36 consider businesses that are easy to understand
0:43:38 or that you already understand.
0:43:40 Why is that so important?
0:43:43 – We’re learning a new skill as is here, right?
0:43:46 We’re learning deal making, how to buy a business,
0:43:47 how to do a deal.
0:43:49 If we don’t have to layer on another skill
0:43:52 which is an industry specific skill
0:43:54 and an industry that’s hyper complicated, that’s a win.
0:43:57 Keeping deals simple wins deals.
0:44:00 I think the worst thing that you can do
0:44:02 is allow a really fancy PowerPoint
0:44:04 to come into the mix here
0:44:06 and give you a bunch of false hope in projections
0:44:09 about what could be as opposed to what is.
0:44:11 And so I like really simple businesses
0:44:13 because then it’s easy for me to understand.
0:44:15 I think most deals go wrong
0:44:17 because if the deals doesn’t make sense
0:44:21 on the back of a piece of paper or on a napkin,
0:44:25 then the deal probably doesn’t make sense in general.
0:44:28 So most people in our world in finance, you know this too,
0:44:31 people in finance want things to seem complicated
0:44:34 so they can charge you a lot of money for them to solve it.
0:44:37 But the truth of it is, it’s usually a lot simpler
0:44:38 than we talk about.
0:44:39 Nobody’s curing cancer here.
0:44:41 You can understand how a laundromat works,
0:44:44 how a car wash works, how a roofing company works.
0:44:46 It just takes some work to understand it.
0:44:48 So that’s why I don’t like anything
0:44:52 that says proprietary on it or bioengineering
0:44:57 or complex patents or even complex attorney companies
0:44:59 because there’s too much ability
0:45:01 for me to not understand what’s happening.
0:45:02 Keep it stupid simple.
0:45:04 – Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
0:45:08 We’ll be right back after a quick break from our sponsors.
0:45:10 – Yeah, fam, when I first started this podcast,
0:45:13 my amazing volunteer team helped me out.
0:45:15 But as my business grew,
0:45:18 we needed to hire real talent with real experience
0:45:19 and it became overwhelming
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0:46:39 Something else that I’ve heard you say before is
0:46:41 you’ve got to really look at the profitability
0:46:43 and not just at potential for growth
0:46:46 because everybody could say, we’re projected to do this
0:46:50 or it’s such a fast-growing space or whatever it is.
0:46:53 Why do we actually have to look at the actual profitability
0:46:55 and only really consider that?
0:46:58 I believe in buying companies based on realities,
0:46:59 not hopes and dreams.
0:47:01 That’s the difference, really, if you think about it,
0:47:03 private equity versus venture capital.
0:47:05 Private equity, which is what I do,
0:47:06 sort of buy these boring businesses.
0:47:09 Private equity buys businesses based on the money
0:47:13 they make today, and they apply a very small idea
0:47:15 to the money they think they could make in the future,
0:47:16 but they buy it based on what it makes today.
0:47:19 Venture capitalists invest in a company now
0:47:22 with the hope that the company becomes something else
0:47:23 in the future.
0:47:26 If the company that a venture capitalist invests in
0:47:29 stays the same, the day that they invest in it,
0:47:33 as the day they go to sell the company, big, huge issue.
0:47:35 That means the investor is not going to make any money.
0:47:38 If a small business stays the same,
0:47:41 the day that I bought it as the day that I sell it,
0:47:43 that’s okay, because I anticipated that.
0:47:46 And I just cash flow on that bad boy for some amount of time.
0:47:48 And that’s really the difference between the two.
0:47:49 – Yeah.
0:47:51 Another tip here that I’ve heard you say
0:47:54 is look for a business that doesn’t do a lot of marketing
0:47:56 or advertising and still is profitable.
0:47:57 Why is that?
0:47:59 – I always call it the fax machine test.
0:48:01 Every time I see a fax machine, I get all tingly
0:48:05 because it basically means that they haven’t spent much money
0:48:08 on technology, probably haven’t done much marketing.
0:48:10 And that’s something that’s called value add.
0:48:13 It basically is just the same as a piece of real estate
0:48:16 in which you’re like, oh, look at this awful shag carpet.
0:48:17 And then you peel up the corner and you’re like,
0:48:20 beautiful original hardwoods, awesome.
0:48:23 Like they don’t even realize what they have.
0:48:26 Oh, they boarded up this room and made it
0:48:28 into something ridiculous when in fact,
0:48:30 when I peel it back, the room’s way bigger.
0:48:31 Look, there’s a window underneath here.
0:48:33 I don’t even have to add the window.
0:48:35 That’s what a lot of these boring businesses are.
0:48:37 They’re kind of a pain when you first take them over
0:48:40 because there’s nothing systematized, right?
0:48:43 You know, a lot of these guys have their tax returns
0:48:46 in paper folders, scattered around their office.
0:48:48 So it’s like not hard to do,
0:48:51 but it’s a lot of work to systematize that.
0:48:54 And then you get to layer on the fun stuff like,
0:48:57 gosh, could you imagine if a company
0:48:59 actually paid attention to reviews
0:49:02 and had software to get them at the top of Google reviews,
0:49:03 I could instigate that.
0:49:05 This company’s never once tried to get a review
0:49:07 and I think we could change the company.
0:49:09 And so we have something called the 3M’s,
0:49:11 which basically talks about,
0:49:15 it talks about markets, marketing and measurements.
0:49:18 And those three things all have
0:49:20 all of these different variables in them.
0:49:23 So like markets, if you own a business
0:49:26 and you are located in, I don’t know,
0:49:29 you’re a baby, you’re a toddler,
0:49:30 what are those called where you go
0:49:32 and you like take kids, daycare.
0:49:34 So say you’re a daycare for toddlers
0:49:36 and you’re like, okay, at this point,
0:49:37 we don’t take newborns.
0:49:39 Well, a new market might be,
0:49:40 you start to take newborns.
0:49:43 Another market might be that you add a preschool in the back.
0:49:48 Another market might be you just add another one 25 miles away
0:49:49 in a new location.
0:49:51 So you think about what are all the different markets
0:49:53 we’re not serving that we could get revenue lines on.
0:49:55 And then you go to marketing,
0:49:57 which might be like, we don’t use Facebook ads,
0:50:00 we don’t use TikTok, why don’t we have a YouTube?
0:50:02 What about if we had cold call outreach?
0:50:04 And then measurements is what inside the business
0:50:05 are we not actually measuring right now?
0:50:08 Where if we measured something,
0:50:11 then we actually usually outperform in it.
0:50:13 And so we apply this three M strategy
0:50:14 to all the businesses that we run.
0:50:16 – This information is still good.
0:50:17 So I wanna give you a moment to tell us
0:50:20 where we can find more information
0:50:23 for unconventional acquisitions, your program,
0:50:25 any sort of free resources that you have,
0:50:27 ’cause I personally wanna learn more.
0:50:29 – Well, if you can spell unconventional acquisitions,
0:50:31 which is actually harder than you think,
0:50:33 there’s a lot of eyes in that.
0:50:35 Then you can go to unconventionalacquisitions.com
0:50:37 and there’s a free blog.
0:50:38 I think everybody should get on.
0:50:39 It’s called The Boring Business Brief.
0:50:42 And every week we basically break down
0:50:46 a different idea of business to buy, a deal done,
0:50:48 lessons learned, that one’s really good.
0:50:53 And then if you also go to contraintthinking.co/recession,
0:50:55 there’s a really good piece that we have.
0:50:56 I think you download it.
0:50:58 It’s basically all the ways to make money
0:51:01 on buying businesses, starting businesses,
0:51:03 in recession, and both of those I think are really useful.
0:51:04 – Amazing.
0:51:06 So we’ll stick those links in the show notes, guys.
0:51:09 All right, so I wanna do a quick-fire segment.
0:51:11 We’ve got about 10 minutes left of the interview,
0:51:13 and I do wanna get some of your day-to-day
0:51:15 conventional wisdom at the end.
0:51:17 So right now I wanna do a quick-fire segment.
0:51:20 I’m gonna name some boring businesses.
0:51:23 And I’d love for you to tell me what’s the upfront cost,
0:51:25 typically, if you have, if that makes sense,
0:51:28 pros and cons, basically, a data dump for us.
0:51:31 So let’s start with a laundromat.
0:51:33 – Laundromat?
0:51:33 Well, how about this?
0:51:35 I bought my first laundromat for 100K,
0:51:38 made me 67K a year,
0:51:40 then ended up buying two more laundromats,
0:51:43 rolling those up, and we sold that for close to a million bucks.
0:51:45 You can buy a laundromat,
0:51:47 typically for less than $100,000,
0:51:48 all the way up to a million dollars.
0:51:52 And you can do seller financing on these as well.
0:51:55 You typically pay three to six X the profit
0:51:57 of the business for a laundromat.
0:51:58 They’re what I call the gateway drug,
0:52:00 good business to start with and learn with.
0:52:02 For you, I’d say, don’t buy a laundromat.
0:52:06 You can do a higher ROI and a higher returning deal,
0:52:08 but a good one for a person who’s just like,
0:52:09 I wanna do this for the first time ever
0:52:11 without a big, huge business.
0:52:12 – And what are the cons of a laundromat?
0:52:14 Like, what do we have to look out for?
0:52:17 – The biggest con, I think, is that you can’t typically
0:52:19 make like tens of millions of dollars with a laundromat.
0:52:22 You can make a couple hundred K to maybe a million or two.
0:52:26 The second con is the customer that you’re serving,
0:52:28 can be challenging.
0:52:29 You’ve been to laundromats before.
0:52:32 They’re typically not in the nicest neighborhoods.
0:52:35 You typically have machinery that can get broken into.
0:52:38 I haven’t really had any vandalized, but that can happen.
0:52:41 So your customer segment is not Tiffany’s.
0:52:43 This is a different customer segment.
0:52:44 So you have to be thoughtful on that.
0:52:46 And then the other thing about laundromats
0:52:51 that’s just worth noting is they take a lot of equipment.
0:52:52 And so if you’re gonna buy one,
0:52:54 you really gotta make sure you understand
0:52:55 what that equipment is worth.
0:52:56 Otherwise you could get into a point
0:52:58 where you buy a laundromat with all these machines,
0:52:59 but the machines are all old
0:53:00 and they’re not gonna work anymore.
0:53:02 So you gotta do some work on the equipment
0:53:03 and get an appraisal.
0:53:04 – Got it.
0:53:07 Okay, so the next one is vending machines.
0:53:09 So I’d love to understand the pros and the cons
0:53:11 of buying this type of business.
0:53:12 – Vending machines are great
0:53:15 because this is a very cheap business to start or buy.
0:53:17 I see people buy vending machine businesses
0:53:21 for anywhere from 3,000 to maybe $300,000.
0:53:24 So it’s a really good, again, entry-level business.
0:53:28 The problem with vending machines
0:53:31 is that you can’t sell very much out of one location.
0:53:33 So they’re not very efficient.
0:53:35 You might make a couple hundred bucks per day
0:53:37 per vending machine, but you’d have to travel all around
0:53:41 to go both fill them up again and collect the money.
0:53:42 So they’re not a very efficient business
0:53:44 where you can just go to one location.
0:53:45 They require some logistics,
0:53:48 putting money in, taking gear out.
0:53:50 The second problem with vending machines
0:53:53 is they don’t scale very well for reason one.
0:53:56 So there are some companies that have scaled vending machines,
0:53:57 but not very many.
0:54:01 And then the third issue with vending machine businesses,
0:54:04 I think, is it’s basically like a mini real estate place.
0:54:06 You have to go negotiate deals
0:54:08 with every single location that you go to,
0:54:10 and they could take those deals away
0:54:11 or they could require more cash.
0:54:14 So you have to make sure you know how to negotiate
0:54:17 and the right way to talk to a seller of the location.
0:54:18 The good parts about vending machines though
0:54:20 are they’re very cheap to start.
0:54:22 They’re really easy to run.
0:54:26 Again, easy, not simple, important caveat between the two.
0:54:28 And there’s a bunch of technology now
0:54:31 that’ll allow you to track your expenses,
0:54:33 your inventory and all of that remote,
0:54:34 which didn’t use to exist.
0:54:36 So that makes them a lot easier.
0:54:37 – So interesting.
0:54:40 Okay, the last one is car washes.
0:54:42 What are the pros and cons?
0:54:44 – So if I had to look at these three in order,
0:54:46 I’d say vending machine easiest business,
0:54:49 least cost, probably the least profitable.
0:54:51 These are all averages.
0:54:53 Second business would be laundromats,
0:54:58 medium cost, medium expenses, medium revenue.
0:55:00 The car wash is most expensive,
0:55:03 potentially the highest revenue of the three.
0:55:05 And so the good part about car wash
0:55:07 is all three of these businesses
0:55:10 can be relatively automated businesses.
0:55:13 And you don’t have to be on location all day
0:55:15 in all of those businesses, which is really nice.
0:55:17 The car wash has that same characteristic.
0:55:20 They also can scale pretty easy.
0:55:24 So car washes, you can add multiple bays to them.
0:55:26 You can offer in-person service.
0:55:27 I don’t do that with mine.
0:55:30 I like it better when it’s just a location
0:55:31 and you can self-serve,
0:55:33 which also means you make less money, obviously.
0:55:35 The thing to know about car washes
0:55:36 is the equipment’s extremely expensive.
0:55:38 It’s the most expensive of any of them.
0:55:40 So you really have to make sure you analyze the equipment
0:55:42 and make sure that it’s in working order.
0:55:43 And then it’s really real estate.
0:55:45 You’ve got to just look at the location,
0:55:46 location, location, equation.
0:55:50 Do you have at least 10,000 cars that drive by per day?
0:55:52 That’s called your car count.
0:55:55 Do you also understand your utilities and water bill?
0:55:58 ‘Cause that’ll be really big for a car wash.
0:55:59 And also, are there any taxes?
0:56:02 Sometimes they levy taxes on those types of businesses.
0:56:05 But I’ve owned all three,
0:56:07 and I think all three have a place,
0:56:09 maybe not for everybody, but to start.
0:56:10 – And I have to ask you,
0:56:13 are there any boring businesses that you want to mention
0:56:15 that are getting you really excited right now?
0:56:18 – Right now, the businesses that are most exciting for me
0:56:22 are probably, I really like buying professional services.
0:56:24 Like right now I’m buying accounting firms,
0:56:26 typically just bookkeeping.
0:56:28 I like the recurring revenue component of them.
0:56:31 So every single month, you pay somebody to do your books.
0:56:32 I like that.
0:56:35 I also like businesses and professional services
0:56:38 that do things like insurance.
0:56:40 Again, recurring revenue.
0:56:42 It also has something that’s, this is like very nerdy,
0:56:45 but if any of these terms you guys don’t know them,
0:56:47 I think of money has its own language.
0:56:49 You teach people this all day long.
0:56:50 Money has its own language.
0:56:52 And if you don’t learn to speak it,
0:56:54 you’re certainly never gonna get much of it.
0:56:57 And so if you don’t know words like recurring revenue,
0:57:00 or what I was gonna say is CAPX,
0:57:01 which means capital expenditures,
0:57:05 AKA the cost to build a car wash.
0:57:08 Things like insurance companies and accounting firms
0:57:09 or bookkeeping have less of that.
0:57:11 And so for somebody that doesn’t have a bunch of cash
0:57:14 to throw around, those businesses are kind of nice.
0:57:15 So I’ve been playing a lot
0:57:17 in the professional services realm right now.
0:57:18 Really cool.
0:57:20 All right, so let’s move on to some
0:57:23 of your conventional wisdom for entrepreneurship.
0:57:26 I saw you on Instagram and you’re making so much noise
0:57:27 in the digital space.
0:57:29 Congratulations on all your influence
0:57:32 that you’re going on Instagram, especially in other channels.
0:57:34 You talk about mirror selfies,
0:57:37 and basically you started taking mirror selfies every day
0:57:39 with your to-dos.
0:57:40 Can you tell us about that
0:57:42 and how it helps you stay accountable?
0:57:47 So I found that the most critical person to you
0:57:50 will be that person you see in the mirror every day.
0:57:51 And most people try to compete
0:57:54 based on follower account or bank account.
0:57:57 And I think the only account that actually matters
0:57:59 is the one that stairs right back at you.
0:58:01 So about maybe a year ago,
0:58:04 I started realizing that I was letting my days
0:58:07 slip away from me and that I was going along
0:58:08 with whatever was happening
0:58:11 as opposed to what I wanted to happen.
0:58:13 And so I started posting a selfie each day.
0:58:15 And the selfie was just me in the mirror.
0:58:17 And then it was my outline of things
0:58:19 that I have going on that day.
0:58:20 And the reason that I did it was a little bit
0:58:21 of accountability.
0:58:24 So am I actually going to do the thing I try to do,
0:58:26 which is 1% better every day
0:58:28 because compounding is magical.
0:58:29 And I thought maybe this is a good way to do it.
0:58:31 People do it a lot for working out,
0:58:34 but I don’t see very many people hold themselves accountable
0:58:35 to what do they do with their time,
0:58:37 their most precious commodity.
0:58:39 And that’s my idea.
0:58:40 – It’s really cute.
0:58:43 Steve, another exercise you call the one in 60 rule.
0:58:44 Can you tell us about that ritual
0:58:47 and how it helps you stay on the right path?
0:58:50 – So there’s a saying among pilots
0:58:53 that basically for every one degree
0:58:56 that you go off course at any given time,
0:58:59 at the end you’ll end up 60 miles away
0:59:01 from the course of destination.
0:59:02 And so when I heard about this,
0:59:06 I started thinking about it from a daily action perspective.
0:59:08 What if that’s also true in the things we do each day?
0:59:10 What if we have a plan,
0:59:12 but every day we just get slightly moved off course,
0:59:14 one degree off course,
0:59:17 would we also end up tens of miles or hundreds of miles away
0:59:18 from where we want it to be?
0:59:20 And I think the answer that we all know inside
0:59:22 is that yes, that actually is what happens.
0:59:24 And so when I realized that,
0:59:26 I like to put things into practice
0:59:27 by putting them on my calendar.
0:59:31 So I put on my calendar pretty much every week that I can,
0:59:34 a little time for me to sit down with a notebook
0:59:36 and I talk about what are my outcomes
0:59:37 that I wanna have happen that week.
0:59:39 And I ask myself a series of questions
0:59:41 and those questions lead me
0:59:43 to hopefully steer myself straight each week.
0:59:46 I think it’s less important what questions you ask
0:59:49 and how you do it and what day of the week that you do it,
0:59:51 but that you have a practice where each week
0:59:53 you’re gonna course correct slightly
0:59:55 for every degree that you get off.
0:59:56 – Young and Profiters,
0:59:59 this was an amazing episode with Cody Sanchez.
1:00:01 Cody, thank you so much for joining us here on YAP.
1:00:03 I really appreciated all your knowledge
1:00:07 about contrarian investing, unconventional acquisitions,
1:00:10 boring businesses, it was really, really interesting stuff.
1:00:12 So I end my show with two questions.
1:00:16 The first one is what is one piece of actionable advice
1:00:18 that our Young and Profiters can do today
1:00:21 to become more profitable tomorrow?
1:00:22 – You know what it actually is?
1:00:24 The piece of advice I would give is that
1:00:25 you don’t actually need advice,
1:00:28 you need to figure out your to-do list.
1:00:32 And most people spend so much time listening
1:00:34 to what other people say they should do with their lives.
1:00:37 When they know inside the things one through 10
1:00:39 they need to do to have a different outcome.
1:00:42 And instead of trying to perfect,
1:00:44 why don’t you try to do?
1:00:47 And I’ll listen to my own advice on that too.
1:00:48 – I think that’s brilliant.
1:00:50 And what is your secret to profiting in life?
1:00:52 And this can be beyond financial.
1:00:54 – The best deal I ever did was my partner.
1:00:55 It was my husband.
1:00:58 It’s also the deal that was the most costly to me ever
1:00:59 with my ex-husband.
1:01:02 So when you’re still young and you have this option,
1:01:06 be really careful who you tie your life to.
1:01:08 Because whether that person is your significant other
1:01:10 or that person is your business partner
1:01:14 or that person is a senior executive that you bring on
1:01:16 or somebody you decide to do a startup with,
1:01:20 your partner will be the single largest impact
1:01:22 on the human that you become.
1:01:26 And most people don’t pay enough attention to that.
1:01:29 So choose your partners carefully.
1:01:30 – I love that.
1:01:32 Well, Cody, where can everybody learn more about you
1:01:33 and everything that you do?
1:01:35 – ContrarianThinking.co.
1:01:38 Join the newsletter that’s the hands down the best place.
1:01:40 And then I’m Cody Sanchez, C-O-D-I-E
1:01:42 on all the internet of things.
1:01:45 Whether you like Twitter, TikTok, Instagram or YouTube,
1:01:46 we’re on every single one.
1:01:47 – Amazing.
1:01:48 Thank you so much.
1:01:49 – Thank you.
1:01:50 This is fun.
1:01:52 (upbeat music)
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