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0:01:13 I started selling my first Excel course, and two months later, it was bringing in more
0:01:15 revenue than my day job.
0:01:20 I love dancing, I love helping people, and I love Excel, so I was like, what would happen
0:01:23 if I put all of that inside of one video?
0:01:26 And that polarity is what really helped the videos take off.
0:01:30 Excel’s kind of sneaky, where like most people don’t understand the capabilities that it
0:01:31 has.
0:01:33 But really, like, it is a machine.
0:01:36 Our biggest revenue driver is webinars.
0:01:39 What’s your best strategies to invite people to the webinar?
0:01:40 So we do the majority of it through…
0:02:01 Young and Profiters, welcome back to the show, and today we have a super inspiring episode
0:02:07 because my guest today has achieved success and a resulting lifestyle that many of us
0:02:10 young entrepreneurs out there could only dream about.
0:02:17 Cat Norton, aka Miss Excel, generated $2 million annually in her business by the time she was
0:02:19 just 29 years old.
0:02:24 She bought her first home, and she has a hugely satisfying career and fulfilling career while
0:02:28 only working just four hours a day.
0:02:29 So what was her secret?
0:02:35 It was combining two of her biggest passions with social media savvy and a contagious energy.
0:02:40 In today’s episode, we’ll learn about how Cat transformed her love and passion for dancing
0:02:46 and spreadsheets together to then turn into a viral sensation on TikTok and parlay that
0:02:50 into a successful online business and course sales.
0:02:52 And we’re going to get her insights on how you can do it too.
0:02:56 I’m going to pick her brain on how she went viral on TikTok and Instagram.
0:03:00 We’re going to learn how she promotes her courses and strategies through webinars and
0:03:01 so much more.
0:03:02 I can’t wait to get into it.
0:03:07 Without further ado, here’s my conversation with Miss Excel, Cat Norton.
0:03:10 Cat, welcome to Young and Profiting Podcast.
0:03:12 Thank you so much for having me.
0:03:14 I’m really excited for this conversation.
0:03:20 So your story is one that a lot of entrepreneurs would envy, but I came to find out that your
0:03:25 story actually started with $100,000 in student debt and a job in corporate America that you
0:03:28 weren’t quite satisfied with.
0:03:31 So can you walk us through your early career journey and where you thought you were headed
0:03:33 at that time?
0:03:34 Absolutely.
0:03:40 So I graduated college back in 2016 with my MBA and I went right into the corporate path.
0:03:47 I was at a consulting firm and really quickly from when I got there, I realized that I had
0:03:51 some enhanced Excel skills because people started just directing questions toward me
0:03:53 of, “Hey, how do I do this?”
0:03:58 So for fun on the side, when I was on the bench for a week in consulting terms, it’s
0:04:04 when you don’t have a client for a week, I built out the most fun, engaging Excel
0:04:07 training for fun just on my computer.
0:04:12 And a managing director looked over my shoulder and was like, “What are you doing over there?”
0:04:16 And I was like, “Oh, you know, I kept tabs on everyone’s Excel questions and I started
0:04:18 building out this class just for fun.”
0:04:22 And they totally backed me and had me flying around the US right when I started as a new
0:04:26 consultant on the side of my job hosting these Excel trainings.
0:04:29 So I did that for five years before I actually made the business.
0:04:34 Or so it’s a passion project and a way to really help people at the company I was at.
0:04:40 It’s awesome that you got to learn and hone your craft as an Excel trainer on somebody
0:04:41 else’s dime.
0:04:43 So you ended up becoming an entrepreneur.
0:04:44 We actually have something in common.
0:04:49 We’re both COVID entrepreneurs who started our businesses in 2020.
0:04:51 What changed for you during the lockdown?
0:04:54 Why did you decide, “Okay, I want to try to step out on my own now?”
0:04:59 It really brought down the amount of travel I was doing, which gave me a lot more time
0:05:00 to reflect.
0:05:04 So before this, with my consulting job every week, I was traveling to a new client in a
0:05:07 new state and I did that for years.
0:05:11 So I was just running, running, running, not really analyzing my life and what I wanted
0:05:17 and I was a very creative being, but I wasn’t really pursuing anything too creative.
0:05:22 And that is when I found myself back in my childhood bedroom of my parents’ house, no
0:05:24 longer traveling, just working remotely.
0:05:29 So I had a lot more time on my hands because I would spend a lot of hours per week traveling
0:05:34 and that’s why I started doing a ton of inner work because I knew the version of myself
0:05:37 that I was at that time was not my highest self.
0:05:41 And I was like, “Okay, there’s definitely some things I need to work on here.”
0:05:48 So I dove deep into inner child work, shadow work, meditation, Dr. Joe Dispenza’s work
0:05:54 and really throughout that, over a two month period, every single day, I was just finding
0:05:57 ways to keep working on myself, leveling up.
0:06:02 And I’ll never forget, it was about two months into that, had no business.
0:06:07 I was in my childhood bedroom, I came running out one day and I was like, “Mom, I’m going
0:06:11 to be rich and famous soon, so I need you to prepare your nervous system for that.”
0:06:15 And I was like dead serious and she was like, “What?”
0:06:18 Like, “Okay, Kathleen, go clean your room.”
0:06:23 But every cell in my body already knew I was on some other timeline even though my current
0:06:26 reality looked nothing like it at all.
0:06:30 And then within a few weeks from there, I got the intuitive hit from Ms. Excel.
0:06:33 I remember downloading the TikTok app for the first time.
0:06:37 I was so against it, I was like, “Oh, I’m not going to waste time on TikTok this early
0:06:38 pandemic days.
0:06:41 It’s like I’m going to read a book.”
0:06:46 And then I opened it up and I started looking and was like, “Oh, it’s kind of weird.
0:06:48 There’s no Excel on TikTok.
0:06:53 Do people not like Microsoft Excel here or could this be something?”
0:06:55 And I had no idea how to use that at all.
0:07:00 I watched a few YouTube videos and was like, “Okay, figure out the buttons here.”
0:07:06 And I had a vision of what the video would look like right when the idea had come up
0:07:10 where I saw the Excel screen above my head, but me dancing below it.
0:07:15 And it was to that Drake song, the Tuzi slide, you know, left, right foot slide, to the left
0:07:17 and the right function in Excel.
0:07:21 So that’s really where I was like, “Okay, I want to see this vision come to life.
0:07:22 I’m such a creative.
0:07:26 I want to get this out of my brain and into something.”
0:07:30 And I watched the video back and I was like, “Oh, this is actually pretty cool.
0:07:31 Maybe I’ll make an account.
0:07:32 Maybe I’ll post it.”
0:07:34 And that’s really where it all began.
0:07:39 So basically, you had this viral idea that you said you downloaded it and a lot of it
0:07:41 had to do with your mindset work.
0:07:43 Can you actually go a little deeper on that?
0:07:45 You mentioned Joe just spends up.
0:07:49 What kind of inner work did you actually do and how did your mindset change before you
0:07:52 actually started posting on social media?
0:07:55 There are three main tools that I use, and I always like to preface this with these are
0:07:58 the ones that I use, but there are so many out there.
0:08:01 It’s really just a matter of finding one that resonates with you.
0:08:04 For me, I was diving into the work of Dr. Joe Dispenza.
0:08:08 I’ve been to a few of his retreats now, but at the time I was just reading his book, Breaking
0:08:11 the Habit of Being Yourself.
0:08:16 And that for me brought my scientific logical brain on board with law of attraction, manifestation,
0:08:18 how all of that works.
0:08:23 Because naturally, I’ve always been a bit of a mystic with that stuff, but there was
0:08:27 still this conscious part of my mind that was having a little trouble grasping like,
0:08:28 “Oh, think positive.
0:08:29 Good things will happen.”
0:08:31 I need a little bit of that science.
0:08:33 So for me, that book opened up a ton.
0:08:38 And then I was also doing Kundalini yoga, which is powerful yogic technology with breakfast
0:08:40 work and mantra.
0:08:43 So that was keeping my energy in a really good spot.
0:08:48 And then I started doing Lacy Phillips has a program called Tubi Magnetic.
0:08:52 And it’s a really structured way to do inner child work and shadow work.
0:08:56 So for me, Capricorn, I like my structure out here.
0:09:01 So I had a very structured way where I knew every day I was going in and working on certain
0:09:02 parts of my brain.
0:09:06 And then over time, due to neuroplasticity, I was able to go in and change some of the
0:09:10 neural pathways that were creating my current reality.
0:09:14 Because I wasn’t as much of a fan of where I was and knew there was somewhere else I
0:09:15 wanted to go.
0:09:20 So for me, that was my little trifecta to get my conscious mind on board, to have a
0:09:25 yoga practice, and to be just overhauling a lot of the patterns and limiting beliefs
0:09:27 that were keeping me in place.
0:09:32 So basically, you didn’t realize that you could really break out and become something
0:09:33 more.
0:09:38 And after doing this mindset work, you’ve actually got confidence to go out and do it.
0:09:43 So did you have any previous social media experience before you first started posting
0:09:44 on TikTok?
0:09:46 None at all.
0:09:51 So if you looked at my personal pages, you’d be like, “Okay, this girl is not an influencer.”
0:09:54 So I was really just learning by the seat of my pants.
0:09:58 I would read the comments people had, and I’m like, “Okay, what do they like?
0:09:59 What do they not like?”
0:10:03 But also for me, it really came down to authenticity.
0:10:07 So I love dancing, I love helping people, and I love Excel.
0:10:12 So I was like, “What would happen if I put all of that inside of one video, right?”
0:10:14 So for me, it was just an authentic expression.
0:10:15 It was cool.
0:10:19 It was something I had never seen anybody do before in terms of the Excel space especially,
0:10:24 but also in a lot of learning spaces, integrating dance, which is more native to the TikTok
0:10:27 app, but then layering in the educational piece.
0:10:32 And that polarity is what really helped the videos take off because if I just posted Excel
0:10:36 tip videos, people would have been like, “Cool, I don’t use Excel,” and moved on.
0:10:40 But so many people were commenting because they were like, “What the heck is this girl
0:10:41 doing?
0:10:42 She is dancing.
0:10:45 She’s doing the Susie slide, left to right function.
0:10:47 What is going on here?”
0:10:49 And that’s really what helped it go through the algorithm.
0:10:51 And I want to laser in on something you said.
0:10:54 We’ll go deeper on it later, but you talked about polarity.
0:11:01 So the fact that you combined two things that are really uncommon together, dance and Excel,
0:11:02 it gets people talking.
0:11:06 It gets people complaining, “Why are you dancing talking about Excel?”
0:11:10 Or some people will love it, and it gets people talking, which really drives everything up
0:11:11 in the algorithm.
0:11:15 Do you have anything else to say about polarity and how important it is for social media?
0:11:20 I think it’s a combination of polarity, because obviously you want a healthy polarity, right?
0:11:22 You don’t just want to say things to create polarity.
0:11:26 It needs to be something that’s actually authentic to you.
0:11:30 So I think it’s important to make sure that your mental health is in a great spot to be
0:11:33 able to receive what comes with polarity.
0:11:34 Right?
0:11:39 Because a lot of times when a video goes viral, negative comments are the majority of the
0:11:43 ones in there, because it’s being shown to people, it’s being shared, and that’s just
0:11:44 the nature of the planet, right?
0:11:48 We live on a polarity planet, there’s always positive and negative forces.
0:11:54 So it comes to making sure that your nervous system is able to hold the energy of what
0:11:57 is going to come through from creating the polarity in that content.
0:11:59 So for me, that was my biggest work.
0:12:04 I was constantly working on myself, because easily some people get some negative comments
0:12:05 and it’ll take them out.
0:12:07 They’ll be like, “I don’t want to post anymore.
0:12:11 People think this,” or you start having certain limiting beliefs that then are adjusting the
0:12:13 actions you’ll take.
0:12:17 So instead of following your intuition, you’re following the actions that’ll please the most
0:12:19 people or things like that.
0:12:22 So it’s really important to keep coming back to yourself, come back to that intuition,
0:12:27 and know that the polarity is going to trigger some people, and that’s okay.
0:12:30 That was a big lesson for me as a former people pleaser.
0:12:31 I had to let that go.
0:12:34 So you’re really big on TikTok.
0:12:35 LinkedIn is my main platform.
0:12:39 I’m an influencer on LinkedIn, and you got me thinking.
0:12:43 One of my biggest viral posts was this post that had a lot of polarity, and I never really
0:12:45 put those words around it until right now.
0:12:52 But basically I was wearing a hot pink jumpsuit, and on the photograph it said, “I’m a female
0:12:54 CEO with female crossed out.”
0:12:58 And so there was a lot of polarity because I was wearing a hot pink jumpsuit, but I crossed
0:12:59 out female.
0:13:02 So like everybody was talking about it, and now I know why.
0:13:03 It went viral.
0:13:06 So how soon did things take off for you?
0:13:08 Did you go viral right away?
0:13:09 Did it take months, years?
0:13:11 What was it like for you?
0:13:16 The whole thing happened pretty quickly, and I do attribute a lot of that to the energetics
0:13:20 that happened behind the scene where I was able to actually show up fully authentically
0:13:26 in what I wanted to create, and was ready to receive the attention back, where normally
0:13:28 I grew up with an anxiety disorder.
0:13:30 I hated having any attention on me.
0:13:35 I had to do a lot of overhauling to get to a spot where I wasn’t going to subconsciously
0:13:38 limit what was able to come into my field.
0:13:42 So it was by the fourth video to that DMX song, “X gon’ give it to ya.”
0:13:47 I did the X lookup function, and that one, it was so good.
0:13:52 That one got 100,000 views right away, and I was like, “Oh my gosh,” because this at
0:13:56 the time was my secret TikTok account because I sold a corporate job.
0:13:58 I wasn’t really sure what I was allowed to do.
0:14:03 So for me, I wasn’t like, “Hey everybody, like my video.”
0:14:07 Only my mother and my boyfriend knew about this secret account, Miss Excel.
0:14:12 So for me, when that video hit, it got shown to all these people I work with.
0:14:13 It got shown to all these people I know.
0:14:15 I’m getting all these messages like, “Is this you?”
0:14:18 And I’m like, “Oh, maybe it’s me.”
0:14:25 And then within three weeks of that, I had my first video go viral on TikTok.
0:14:29 And next thing you know, I looked down at my phone, and within a couple days, I had
0:14:31 100,000 followers.
0:14:34 And that’s where I was like, “Whoa, now what do I do?”
0:14:37 Because everything was going on in the news, too, at this time.
0:14:42 This was like June, July of 2020, that TikTok’s getting banned, all the things.
0:14:45 So I was like, “Well, I got a hedge mark risk out here.
0:14:47 I’m going to create an Instagram account.”
0:14:50 So I created an Instagram, started posting on there.
0:14:54 And then within a few months, both accounts had gone viral various times, and we had a
0:14:57 few 100,000 followers across the different platforms.
0:14:59 That’s so amazing.
0:15:05 It’s so rare to have somebody who just skyrockets on social media right away.
0:15:10 You just alluded to the fact that you came on with really good energy, and energy is
0:15:11 really magnetic.
0:15:14 So can you talk to us about the importance of ensuring that you have the right type of
0:15:17 energy when you go film your videos?
0:15:20 I view content as simply an energy exchange.
0:15:26 My energy is coming through to you on your phone or vice versa, and you are the recipient
0:15:27 of that energy, right?
0:15:30 So my job as a creator is I want my energy through the roof.
0:15:35 I want it in its most heightened, sparkly, magnetic state, because, one, that’s what’s
0:15:36 going to stop someone.
0:15:38 Think about a bunch of people walking down the street.
0:15:43 If there is someone that is magnetic and pure joy and happiness, and that was something
0:15:47 I worked on myself, too, to get myself to that place, that’s the type of person and
0:15:50 that’s the type of energy where you’re going to stop and be like, “Whoa, what’s that person
0:15:51 doing?”
0:15:55 Why do I feel like attracted to them, not in a sexual way, but in an energetic way?
0:15:56 It’s magnetism.
0:16:01 So that’s something I was learning early on is practices I can do behind the scenes,
0:16:06 and a lot of that was where the Kundalini Yoga came into play, doing different yoga technologies
0:16:11 and breath work and things where my aura would become bigger, my energy would become bigger,
0:16:13 and that way it would stop you on the phone.
0:16:17 So whether it was the polarity of the video, like, “I’m looking at Excel and a girl dancing
0:16:21 at once, what is this?” or just the energy behind it, right?
0:16:24 Like if I looked really bored or like I was having a bad time, I wouldn’t want to hang
0:16:25 out.
0:16:28 It’s kind of like creating a little room with someone when you’re watching a piece of content
0:16:29 and you’re like entering their room.
0:16:31 It’s like, “Do I want to go in that person’s room?”
0:16:35 You want to make sure the energy is there, you’re inviting, and you’re actually providing
0:16:36 value.
0:16:39 So that was something, too, where I’d spend a lot of time researching the tips and tricks,
0:16:44 making sure that one, people were learning, but two, also that we were having that entertainment
0:16:49 factor because each video too can bring someone’s energy up or down.
0:16:53 So if you’re watching dark things that are going to bring down your frequency, bring down
0:16:58 your vibration, that’s something that’s going to create more negative feelings in the body.
0:17:01 My job is, I’m trying to lift that up on the planet.
0:17:02 I want to make you smile.
0:17:03 I want to make you laugh.
0:17:06 I want to brighten your day in any possible way that I can.
0:17:11 So that’s where with my content, I need to make sure that I’m in a good spot before I
0:17:18 go and actually make that peace because that energy translates every single time.
0:17:20 So I love actionable advice on the podcast.
0:17:25 Most of our listeners, they’re entrepreneurs, they might be creating content.
0:17:26 We’re on video right now.
0:17:28 What is something that we can do right now?
0:17:32 Because you heard me when we got on camera, I was a little upset because I have a new
0:17:36 makeup artist and she put way too much makeup on my face and I was like, “Oh, I don’t feel
0:17:37 like myself.
0:17:40 What would I do to get my energy up in a situation like that?”
0:17:45 Well, first off, I think you did an incredible job of one expressing that because so many
0:17:47 people internalize that.
0:17:51 So you just opened it up to the room, you were like, “Hey guys, this is how I’m feeling.”
0:17:55 And that openness is automatically releasing any type of shame you’re feeling around that
0:17:56 emotion.
0:17:58 So I had this a lot going on with acne.
0:18:02 I was trying so hard to hide my acne for years and years and makeup and things.
0:18:07 And the second I started talking about it, it releases the shadow aspect of it.
0:18:09 So then it just releases that electromagnetic charge.
0:18:10 So you did an amazing job.
0:18:13 You literally came out and you’re like, “Yo, guys, this is how I’m feeling.”
0:18:14 Right?
0:18:19 And then we were able to hype you the F up because your perception of that reality was
0:18:21 different than our perception of that reality.
0:18:23 We’re like, “Oh my gosh, she’s dropped that gorgeous look at her.”
0:18:26 And then that was your perception of the reality.
0:18:30 So we were able to merge that a little bit and get your vibration back up.
0:18:32 And now you’re so sparkly and magnetic as always.
0:18:36 So it’s really cool what you did was so on point.
0:18:37 Yeah.
0:18:38 I love that.
0:18:42 I love putting some real life situations into perspectives.
0:18:43 Okay.
0:18:48 So let’s talk about the different ways that you can trend on TikTok.
0:18:50 You talked about polarity.
0:18:53 You also talked about craftsmanship, creativity, and authenticity.
0:18:57 Can you break down those things and how they can help us do well on TikTok and Instagram
0:19:01 and all the other short form video content out there?
0:19:05 When it comes to authenticity, I do think that’s one of the biggest ones because I see
0:19:11 a lot of people trying to fit themselves into a certain box that’s not their box.
0:19:13 It’s not the box that feels good for them.
0:19:14 It’s not what they actually want to do.
0:19:19 I remember when TikTok back in like 2020 with it, everyone was like, “Oh, if I go on
0:19:21 TikTok, I have to dance.”
0:19:23 You absolutely do not have to dance.
0:19:26 And obviously we see that now in all the content that’s out there now.
0:19:32 But at the time for me, I was just dancing because I genuinely love to dance.
0:19:36 That is when I’m so sparkly and magnetic and I will do that behind the scenes to hype
0:19:37 myself up.
0:19:40 So for me, it was a very authentic expression.
0:19:45 I do think too, when it comes to actually creating that polarity, I like combining different
0:19:46 things.
0:19:50 I like having a unique spin on something that you haven’t seen before.
0:19:54 So I think when it comes to creating that authentically for you, what I like to do is
0:19:56 just literally make a list.
0:19:57 This is how I got started out.
0:19:58 I made a list of like, what do I like?
0:20:01 Because I remember this was back when I was at my corporate job.
0:20:05 I was just very much the dull version of myself.
0:20:09 And I was really contorting to be the way that I needed to be to fit in the corporate
0:20:10 box.
0:20:13 And I was doing securitization reviews for banks.
0:20:15 I had a marketing degree.
0:20:18 I always constantly felt like I was just not in the right room.
0:20:20 I was like, “Oh, finance.”
0:20:26 So it was one of those things where I needed to get clear on who I was and what I genuinely
0:20:29 authentically wanted to do and create.
0:20:33 So I literally made a list of what lights me up and what do I love.
0:20:37 And then you could take a step back and look at that list and be like, “Okay, is there
0:20:40 a way to branch these things together?”
0:20:44 And then if you feel like you have limiting beliefs popping up being like, “Well, you
0:20:45 don’t have time for that.
0:20:46 You can’t do that.
0:20:47 People think you’re weird.
0:20:48 You’re going to get fired.”
0:20:51 All the things, those are the biggest blessing, right?
0:20:56 Because that is when it is shining a flashlight on the limiting beliefs that are holding us
0:21:01 in place from getting to where we intuitively and authentically want to go.
0:21:06 So I think a big part of it is I view whenever I catch a limiting belief, I’m like, “Hell
0:21:07 yes.”
0:21:09 Because now I see it.
0:21:11 The biggest thing is having the gift of awareness.
0:21:13 And that’s the thing with the Kundalini Yoga technology.
0:21:15 It’s the Yoga of Awareness.
0:21:20 So I was constantly doing things to bring awareness to my own self because a lot of us go through
0:21:24 life trying to, and I did this for the longest time, just hide ourselves, hide our flaws,
0:21:25 hide things.
0:21:27 And I was like, “You know what?
0:21:32 I need to bring my own self-awareness to where my quote-unquote flaws are, if they’re even
0:21:33 flaws.”
0:21:34 People view everything different.
0:21:36 It’s all perception.
0:21:42 And be able to not stand in my own way when it comes to getting those goals, when it comes
0:21:46 to reaching what I actually want to do and what timeline I want to be on.
0:21:51 So I think it’s all just a game of authenticity, polarity, awareness, and just doing things
0:21:54 in your own way.
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0:26:14 At what point did you decide, okay, I’m going to start monetizing this thing?
0:26:18 At what point did you decide to put out a course and start making sales?
0:26:20 That was in October of 2020.
0:26:26 So at this point, I had a few hundred thousand followers on TikTok, on Instagram, and a business
0:26:32 coach slid into my DMs, as he should, and was like, hey, notice you have a few hundred
0:26:37 thousand followers, no lead magnet, no link in your bio, no mailing list, no product, what
0:26:39 to do it over here.
0:26:42 And I was brand new to the digital marketing space.
0:26:44 I did not know any of these things.
0:26:46 So I did a one-off session.
0:26:51 I ended up doing the class, like I had the Mailchimp, the Linktree, the little automation
0:26:53 going, and I started growing a mailing list.
0:26:55 And that happened pretty quickly.
0:27:01 And by November of 2020, so about a month later, is that Black Friday is when I started
0:27:03 selling my first Excel course.
0:27:06 So this course, I took two weeks off from my day job.
0:27:10 So at this point, I’m still working 50 hours a week at my day job.
0:27:13 Took two weeks off on vacation in my living room.
0:27:14 Yeah.
0:27:18 And I built the most fun, engaging Excel course I could possibly think of because if you see
0:27:21 my content, your girl could not have a boring Excel course after that.
0:27:24 I was like, this needs to be really cool and fun.
0:27:25 So I built the whole course.
0:27:27 I taught myself video editing.
0:27:30 I edited every single video. It was over a hundred videos.
0:27:33 And I started selling it Black Friday.
0:27:39 And two months later, by January, it was bringing in more revenue per month than my day job
0:27:40 was per month.
0:27:45 And I was like, well, my Excel takes me like 10 hours a week and my day job takes me 40
0:27:46 to 50.
0:27:49 I would be dangerous with those hours back in my week.
0:27:52 I would be able to just go off and really scale this thing.
0:27:57 So to everybody’s discontent, I was like, I’m going to quit my study.
0:28:00 Because she’s stable day job in order to make TikTok content courses.
0:28:03 And everyone was like, what?
0:28:06 But for me, it’s really just a game.
0:28:08 This is how I view entrepreneurship.
0:28:10 It is just taking the bet on you.
0:28:15 And I knew as long as I made that promise to myself, I am not going to give up on me.
0:28:18 There is no risk as long as I’m not giving up.
0:28:22 I will 100% be successful because I will not stop until I get there.
0:28:26 And I just went into it with that mentality with all the people who were like, what are
0:28:27 you doing?
0:28:30 And, you know, trying to like explain to your 30% team that you’re quitting.
0:28:32 Oh, what company are you going to?
0:28:33 My company.
0:28:34 What do you mean?
0:28:37 Have you seen me on TikTok, Steve?
0:28:38 It’s a very interesting time.
0:28:43 But really taking that bet on me is what opened everything up because from there I was able
0:28:47 to create nine more courses, started doing webinars and start bundling them together.
0:28:51 And once I got that price point higher, that’s when we scaled into a seven figure company.
0:28:52 Yeah, that’s awesome.
0:28:56 And I’m sure it was easy to quit your cushy job considering you were already making more
0:28:58 money in your side hustle.
0:28:59 I was the same way.
0:29:02 I was making way more money in my side hustle at one point than my corporate job.
0:29:07 And I was like, okay, it’s definitely time to release these golden handcuffs.
0:29:12 So something that you did that was really smart is that you went really niche.
0:29:15 You dominated Excel training.
0:29:17 There was a gap open on TikTok.
0:29:19 Nobody was talking about it.
0:29:21 You did it in a really fun, engaging way.
0:29:28 And you basically dominated that Excel space, which is a niche of a niche, right?
0:29:29 So it’s very, very niche.
0:29:33 And I do want to point out to everybody listening because I teach a lot about entrepreneurship
0:29:40 and social media is that it’s so much easier to dominate a small niche and then go broad.
0:29:42 So a lot of people try to go broad.
0:29:47 They might launch a general entrepreneurship show out of nowhere when it’s way better to
0:29:53 just laser in on one aspect and dominate that and compete there and then broaden out.
0:29:57 So do you ever think about how you’re going to broaden out your brand now that you’ve
0:29:59 really dominated Excel?
0:30:02 So we’ve done a little bit of it in the last year and a half.
0:30:07 So I went from just Excel courses, and now we teach across the Microsoft Office Suite.
0:30:09 So PowerPoint, Word, Outlook, OneNote.
0:30:11 We also do Google Sheets.
0:30:14 I also teach AI and kids courses.
0:30:18 So that’s really where we started going out more inside of the course space.
0:30:20 And then I’m always listening, right?
0:30:21 I’m listening to our audience.
0:30:22 I’m like, what do they want?
0:30:23 What do they need?
0:30:28 And then where does that line up with my talents and what I’m able to bring to the marketplace?
0:30:32 But yeah, when we scaled out to the other Microsoft Office products, that’s where we
0:30:34 went from six figures to seven figures.
0:30:37 We needed that higher price point because it’s interesting.
0:30:41 So Excel courses are actually one of the top selling courses.
0:30:43 It is a really popular course topic.
0:30:45 I didn’t know that, getting into it.
0:30:49 And what we brought to the Excel space, too, is different from what I’ve been there before.
0:30:52 Because a lot of people looked at it, and they’re like, oh, there were already a bunch
0:30:54 of Excel YouTubers and bloggers.
0:30:57 That was the space when I first came into it.
0:31:01 No one was really doing short form content on Excel.
0:31:04 So that’s where I came in with the differentiator, because a lot of people, too, look at even
0:31:07 like niche industries, and they’re like, oh, there’s so many people in there.
0:31:08 I can’t get in there.
0:31:12 There’s been people that have been teaching Excel since before I was born, but I was like,
0:31:16 I’m going to bring my own authentic spin to this and really make this topic fun because
0:31:18 it doesn’t have to suck.
0:31:22 A lot of people look at Excel, and they’re like, oh, and if you’re hanging out with me,
0:31:24 you best not be having those feelings.
0:31:27 I’m going to make sure you are having a good time.
0:31:31 And you’re actually learning things that are going to save you hours in your week.
0:31:33 And that is my big thing with it.
0:31:36 Not only we’re going to make this functional, but we’re going to have a good time together
0:31:39 because life is short, and we should all be having a good time.
0:31:42 And I would never want someone to sit through a course that was really boring.
0:31:47 And I can imagine in the future that you actually help people launch courses or explain how
0:31:52 to go viral on TikTok because you learned a whole set of skills, putting your expertise
0:31:56 out to the world, and you could probably help other people put their expertise out to the
0:31:57 world as well.
0:32:01 Yeah, that’s something I do think about a lot, potentially, for down the line.
0:32:07 I feel like there’s something really big coming on the Miss Excel side, and so I’ve been putting
0:32:11 my eggs in that basket, but I do think down the line, I’ve gotten pretty good at course
0:32:14 creation and webinars and selling.
0:32:17 So I do think that’s something I can help people with down the line.
0:32:20 Yeah, and I definitely want to pick your brain on that.
0:32:21 But first, let’s talk about spreadsheets.
0:32:26 So I figured this is primarily an audio podcast.
0:32:30 We’re not going to be able to get too nitty gritty in terms of spreadsheet tutorials.
0:32:35 But of course, you can go to Miss Excel’s channels and learn all that stuff yourself.
0:32:39 But I do want to just talk about the fact that spreadsheets sometimes get a bad rap.
0:32:42 People are always talking about, “We got to get out of spreadsheets.
0:32:45 We got to get out of spreadsheets and an air table out of spreadsheets, and then click
0:32:49 up out of spreadsheets and in whatever tool is out there.”
0:32:51 So what is your perspective?
0:32:55 What is Excel good for and what is Excel not so good for?
0:32:59 I think Excel is incredible for data analysis.
0:33:04 When you want some answers and you want to know those answers are accurate, Excel is
0:33:06 the way to go.
0:33:09 And it’s also great for bringing data together.
0:33:14 So much of business is really going in and analyzing the data, analyzing what’s happened,
0:33:18 analyzing what you’re doing, moving forward, and even just simple tasks from an entrepreneurial
0:33:23 perspective, cleaning your mailing list, analyzing your mailing list, doing the uploads, the
0:33:27 CSV files, things like having those Excel schools really, really help.
0:33:34 What I do see more of in the entrepreneurial space is moving into other platforms for more
0:33:36 collaboration type efforts.
0:33:39 So I’ve even seen that with Google Sheets too.
0:33:46 A lot of people do that for more simple collaboration, but I would say the hardcore data analysis
0:33:50 side, when you need to pull all that data out, pull out your customer data and start
0:33:54 looking at what people are buying, what they’re doing, and really getting to those answers.
0:33:56 That’s where Excel really stands strong.
0:34:01 And when you say data entry, the first thing that comes to my mind is, “Oh, all this manual
0:34:06 data entry,” but talk to us about the ways that we can use Excel to automate some common
0:34:08 repetitive tasks.
0:34:11 Exporting from systems, first of all.
0:34:15 Exporting all that data and then functions that you can use, like the lookup functions.
0:34:18 Those are great ones for combining those different data sets together.
0:34:22 And then when it comes to the automation space, that’s where learning VBA and macros and ways
0:34:27 to create basically little tiny programs like automations, that you can hit a button and
0:34:31 it’ll do the same things you may need done to your spreadsheet each time.
0:34:36 Are great ways to automate and save time too, but I really think a lot of it comes down
0:34:40 to just knowing Excel’s kind of sneaky.
0:34:43 Most people don’t understand the capabilities that it has.
0:34:44 It is like a Ferrari.
0:34:47 There’s so much you can do with it, and a lot of people treat it like, you know, it’s
0:34:48 like a Camry.
0:34:53 They’re like, “Oh, I’m just going to put the data in there and change the color to yellow.
0:34:54 Cool.”
0:34:56 But it is a machine.
0:35:01 So I try to inspire people too to actually open up the HUD, take a look and see how much
0:35:06 time you can be saving because so many people actually use it and waste time with it versus
0:35:07 saving time with it.
0:35:09 And that’s where I come in.
0:35:12 Does Google Sheets and Excel have generally the same capabilities?
0:35:13 Yeah.
0:35:18 I would say they’re pretty similar, but Excel is definitely better for the data analysis
0:35:19 side of things.
0:35:23 I would say Google is a little bit stronger in the collaborative features, like if you
0:35:26 all need to be working on the same spreadsheet at the same time.
0:35:30 But if it’s something where you’re going in and you’re analyzing stuff and you’re pulling
0:35:32 down different things, Excel’s where it’s at.
0:35:38 We use Google Sheets specifically all the time at Yap Media, and I made a joke the other
0:35:42 day to my business partner, “Man, we just made 50k from a row on a spreadsheet.”
0:35:47 You know, like we make so much money off just using Google Sheets.
0:35:52 It really is honestly what powers our business is using Sheets.
0:35:53 So it’s so important.
0:35:58 I would love my employees to take some of your trainings and level it up.
0:36:04 Is there anything that we can do for our daily lives, little known hacks that we can use
0:36:08 Excel for even for our own personal lives outside of business?
0:36:14 I typically use it in my own personal life for different tracking type things and then
0:36:16 also from the sense of templates.
0:36:21 So if you ever need to do similar tasks time and time again or also with SOPs, I’m trying
0:36:23 to think from more of the entrepreneurial perspective.
0:36:27 If you have SOPs for people on your team, where, you know, if there’s certain data points
0:36:31 or certain forms that you collect each time, for us, for example, every time we host our
0:36:36 webinars, there are certain metrics we want every single time to be pulled.
0:36:42 So having those places where you keep it consistent and you’re able to analyze it not only on
0:36:44 a narrow level, but on the broad level.
0:36:47 So you have monthly different sheets for different things you’re pulling in, but then
0:36:50 you also tie it together on a dashboard.
0:36:52 We have a dashboard course for that too.
0:36:56 So we are always talking about able to have that bird’s eye view when it comes to your
0:37:01 data and be able to zoom out and make those strategic business decisions because it really
0:37:04 depends to where in your business you are.
0:37:07 If you are a CEO, like you want to be looking at that bird’s eye view.
0:37:10 If you’re a data analyst, you want to be getting into the nitty-gritty of the number.
0:37:16 So it’s a matter of merging those two worlds so the data can actually be used to make those
0:37:17 decisions.
0:37:20 So like we talked about, this is an entrepreneurship podcast.
0:37:25 A lot of people have their own courses and you’ve done a phenomenal job promoting, creating
0:37:27 courses, selling your courses.
0:37:30 So let’s walk through some of your strategy there.
0:37:33 Can you talk to us about how you promote your courses today?
0:37:38 What are the things that you’re doing to drive people to your platform to buy your courses?
0:37:41 Our biggest revenue driver is webinars.
0:37:48 So I host typically every month, every couple of months, live sessions where I for 45 minutes
0:37:50 am teaching a full-blown Excel class.
0:37:54 We’re either going into data cleaning, pivot tables, lookup functions.
0:37:59 I have a little intro and then I go in and I teach a full-blown class because I want
0:38:03 them to get a taste of what I can do and how I can actually break these concepts down.
0:38:06 And on the other side of that, people are like, “Oh my gosh, what?
0:38:08 I just learned all these things.”
0:38:12 And then we give them an incredible deal to keep learning with us and a massive discount
0:38:14 and gift with purchases.
0:38:18 And I actually first learned this from, I was on Boss Babes webinar back in January
0:38:19 of 2021.
0:38:24 That’s how I found out about webinar jam, was through Natalie and Danielle.
0:38:28 And really from there, we do the webinar and then we have a closed-down sequence that goes
0:38:31 through and we also get a lot of sales on the back end.
0:38:35 And another huge driver of our webinars has been our affiliate program.
0:38:40 So we came up with an affiliate program where we do a 50/50 split, meaning if someone brings
0:38:46 in a lead to us, whether we have Morning Brew, we work with some of the huge Excel creators
0:38:50 where they get their own events, and then we have tons of people, if they’re smaller
0:38:55 creators, going into our webinars where if you send us that lead and they make a sale,
0:38:58 you get 50% of the revenue.
0:39:04 So that’s something where we have creators making $10, $15,000 a month to up to like $70,000
0:39:07 a month with us in commissions.
0:39:11 So that’s something where I wanted to create something like, you know, an affiliate program
0:39:15 with our courses, because there’s so many creators out there not making money and it
0:39:16 really upsets me.
0:39:18 They have huge followings and I’m like, what’s happening?
0:39:22 Because I feel like that’s where I was and a lot of people don’t have topics that are
0:39:26 as conducive to courses and they’re just doing more brand deals and stuff where I was like,
0:39:30 okay, I want to make something where they can make good money out of this too.
0:39:32 And they could quit their jobs too.
0:39:36 Like a lot of these Excel creators have like 8 million followers and no products.
0:39:38 So I was like, okay, let’s get in there.
0:39:39 We already built it.
0:39:40 We have a team of 17.
0:39:42 We’re running the backend.
0:39:45 Let’s create something where all they need to do is push a link and then everything’s
0:39:47 taking care of for them on the backend.
0:39:51 So that’s been a huge revenue generator for us too is bringing in all those affiliates.
0:39:53 And it’s a huge revenue generator for them.
0:39:54 So it’s been a win-win.
0:39:57 Yeah, I love that strategy of affiliates.
0:40:02 That’s one that I’ve never heard of before specifically driving people to your webinar
0:40:05 and then if it converts, they get a portion of the sale.
0:40:09 So I kind of want to like distill some of the things that you had mentioned.
0:40:11 Webinars are really important to me.
0:40:13 I use it to sell my LinkedIn courses.
0:40:18 I’m actually putting out a webinar about using webinars to launch info products or sell
0:40:21 info products sponsored by Teachable.
0:40:25 And so I’d love to get some of your perspective about this topic specifically.
0:40:31 So first of all, you mentioned that you retarget folks after the webinars over.
0:40:35 You said after the webinars over, there’s also sales that are happening afterwards.
0:40:39 So a lot of people don’t realize that when people are signing up to Zoom webinar, you
0:40:40 get to collect email.
0:40:45 So one of my favorite things about webinars and Zoom webinars is the fact that people
0:40:50 have to give you their email and it really helps to accelerate and grow your email list.
0:40:54 And then you can retarget those people on email afterwards, but talk to us about your
0:40:58 retargeting strategy after the webinars over what happens.
0:41:02 Our full process is on the front end, we’re getting the name, the email, and sometimes
0:41:04 we have an optional for phone number.
0:41:06 So we also have a text campaign that’s going out too.
0:41:09 We use those more so on the show upside.
0:41:13 So on the front end, you’re getting a five email drip for a show up sequence.
0:41:15 You have extra tickets, invite other people.
0:41:18 And then we also, right before the webinar, you get a little text.
0:41:22 If you signed up with your number, like, hey, reminder, it’s on there.
0:41:26 We also integrate with ad event to be able to give them little calendar links and they
0:41:30 can hit a button and boom, the events on their Google calendar, their Outlook calendar and
0:41:31 whatnot.
0:41:36 From there, after the webinar, once we hang up, we have all the email sequences going
0:41:37 out.
0:41:39 So people get gifts for attending live.
0:41:40 So we have those going out.
0:41:43 We have people who get gifts with purchases from their purchases.
0:41:49 And then we also have our traditional closed down sequence, which we do a six email sequence
0:41:54 and it goes through and gives them, you know, the discount code again, the replay link.
0:41:58 And then throughout those emails, we’re also just integrating different testimonials and
0:42:01 things that’ll go and work through to the base with the sale.
0:42:05 And then we have the last call on the bottom there too.
0:42:06 Got it.
0:42:09 Can you walk us through some examples of what you mean by gift for attending the first session?
0:42:10 Yeah.
0:42:13 So we have lots of presents when you come to our bed.
0:42:14 I never heard that before.
0:42:15 That’s why I’m like, tell me more.
0:42:16 Yeah.
0:42:17 So that helped with our show up.
0:42:23 So we essentially advertise that anyone who attends in person, well, in person virtually,
0:42:29 you know, our live event, you get a practice file that I worked through in the class or
0:42:33 you get an extra little bonus for coming live because the conversion of the people who come
0:42:37 live is obviously much higher than the people who watch the replay or the people who don’t
0:42:38 watch at all.
0:42:42 So our goal is to get you in the room, one, because you’re going to have the best experience
0:42:45 and actually learn the materials and dedicate that time to you.
0:42:50 And then two, it helps us from a marketing perspective and a business perspective.
0:42:53 So we add in bonuses for attending live.
0:42:55 And then we have tracking on that on the back end.
0:42:57 So right when we hang up, we send them those.
0:43:00 Give me an example, like a free download or something.
0:43:01 Yeah.
0:43:02 Yeah.
0:43:04 So it’s really, it’s more so free downloads, I’d say, in the broader entrepreneurial space.
0:43:06 For us, it’s an Excel workbook.
0:43:11 So you get a workbook to do further practice of the lessons that you learned today, because
0:43:15 I typically do not give out the spreadsheet that I’m working with, because it’s a huge
0:43:20 file with macros and we gamify the Excel experience in order to make things really entertaining.
0:43:24 We’ve built escape rooms inside our spreadsheet and there, you know, as we’re clicking and
0:43:28 doing it together, different rooms are unlocking and so they’re very big files.
0:43:33 So for our audience, we typically say, you’re not missing anything, sit back, relax, just
0:43:34 watch what’s on the screen.
0:43:38 But if you came here live, not to worry, we’ll get extra practice.
0:43:40 And that’s something that gets a lot more people in the room.
0:43:42 And then we also do big gift with purchases.
0:43:47 So for people who purchase on the live, they get a gift with purchase.
0:43:50 So that’s something we have tracked on the back end too.
0:43:54 So when we hang up, our team sends out all the different presents into the inbox.
0:43:56 I love these ideas.
0:43:59 These are such good ideas that I’ve really never heard before.
0:44:03 I’ve interviewed a lot of webinar experts like Jason Flatline and Russell Brunson.
0:44:06 So it’s cool to get your unique perspective.
0:44:10 So one of the things that I know that can scare people with webinars is providing too
0:44:12 much education.
0:44:16 If you teach them too much, oftentimes they feel overwhelmed and then they’re like, well,
0:44:17 I learned so much.
0:44:18 Why bother getting the course?
0:44:20 I have so much to implement just with today.
0:44:21 This is overwhelming.
0:44:22 This is a lot of work.
0:44:23 It can scare people away.
0:44:28 So what is too much and too little education for your webinar?
0:44:30 How do you think about that?
0:44:36 I look at our course and in a free webinar, I’ll give away maybe 5% of that course.
0:44:40 So if you take a look at it, our courses are roughly about 12 hours long.
0:44:46 Excel has so many different topics that I typically go to a core three because we realized
0:44:49 we did have a lot of people just always coming to our free classes because I was switching
0:44:50 them up all the time.
0:44:55 So now we keep it into three different topics where you don’t really get the other topic.
0:44:59 So having that repetitive nature, if you are doing tons of webinars does help.
0:45:03 We do have tons of our existing course members who joined our free webinars and it’s honestly,
0:45:07 it is a really big blessing too because they’ll type in the chat, like, yeah, I love my courses
0:45:08 so much.
0:45:11 It definitely does help with sales too.
0:45:16 But one, I try not to be afraid of doing that because there’s always just so much more you
0:45:20 can teach and things in the courses, but niching down into one topic is what we do.
0:45:24 I don’t just teach, here’s a little pivot tables, here’s a little lookup, here’s all
0:45:28 the different things because then someone might look at the course outline and be like,
0:45:31 I just learned all that, but they don’t realize you can go deeper.
0:45:32 So I niche it down.
0:45:37 So we just did, for example, data cleaning one, we have a lookup one coming up.
0:45:39 That’s something we niche it down.
0:45:43 So you’re saying you have three core topics that you rotate because people like to attend
0:45:46 multiple webinars before they actually make their choice.
0:45:47 That’s what I found.
0:45:51 People might attend my webinars two, three times and then they make a purchase.
0:45:56 Some people need more warming up, but they’re just not ready or they need to be sold more.
0:46:01 What kind of psychology and words are you using during your webinar to try to draw people
0:46:06 in, get them engaged, get them bought into wanting to take this course?
0:46:10 I think for me, it might be a little different than what other people do, but I just go from
0:46:16 a place of love because I feel like, especially in the Excel space, it can seem really cold
0:46:17 and really sterile.
0:46:19 That’s not me as a person.
0:46:22 So I go in there and just blast them.
0:46:25 I’m like, you are going to feel like your hand is being held because I know this experience
0:46:28 of learning Excel can feel really overwhelming.
0:46:33 And I’ll go through and just make sure that they understand once you’re in our ecosystem,
0:46:36 once you are in the Miss Excel family, you are taken care of.
0:46:40 And I make sure that everyone I hire is incredibly heart-centered and love-filled and just great
0:46:42 human beings.
0:46:46 So that way I know they’re being taken care of when they’re in our courses because that’s
0:46:50 something that worries a lot of people is when you’re teaching a topic that feels really
0:46:55 overwhelming, they might need that extra hand-holding to be able to feel comfortable.
0:46:58 So I always try to bridge that gap because that’s something especially in my space that’s
0:46:59 really missing.
0:47:03 If you’re maybe like a love coach or something, that might not be something that’s missing.
0:47:07 But for us in our space, I’ve found that that’s something really authentic to me and something
0:47:08 that works really well.
0:47:11 And then also I always speak to their pain points.
0:47:16 So I know what’s going on in their minds and I know how our product is the solution to
0:47:17 it.
0:47:18 So I bridge that gap.
0:47:19 A lot of people feel overwhelmed.
0:47:22 They feel anxiety and things around it.
0:47:26 And then our course members are saving hours in the week, getting promotions, getting raises,
0:47:28 feeling confident at work.
0:47:33 So making that messaging match up with what we’re delivering and what their pain points
0:47:35 are is really big too.
0:47:38 We’ll be right back after a quick break from our sponsors.
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0:52:45 Walk us through how you would communicate pain points and flip it on its head.
0:52:47 What would you say in the webinar?
0:52:52 If you open up your spreadsheet and you feel really overwhelmed, do you feel like the person
0:52:56 next to you knows so much more than you do and you might get passed up for the promotion
0:53:02 or things in that realm is what I’ll focus on where it’s like the overwhelm, the anxiety,
0:53:07 and then I explain, I have testimonials, we have 24,000 students and I show them our course
0:53:10 members and what they’re actually doing and I have their words.
0:53:15 I got the promotion, I got the raise, I showed my boss these tips and tricks and now they
0:53:20 want to bring on the courses for our whole team and that’s really where I’ll bring up
0:53:23 those points and then I’ll bring up these points and merge them together.
0:53:28 We do it through different slides, so we have a slide presentation that goes with it.
0:53:31 Do you talk about your own personal story in the webinar at all?
0:53:35 Do you intro with your own story, how Excel changed your life?
0:53:36 How do you intro everything?
0:53:39 I think it was, I forget who talks about it, it’s like the hero’s journey.
0:53:44 You essentially have, yeah, in the beginning, so I mean, I really do have a journey with
0:53:45 the product.
0:53:49 I talk about how my MBA program, our professor on the first day actually told me to drop
0:53:55 the class and told me I shouldn’t be studying data because I didn’t have the prerequisite
0:53:56 courses.
0:54:00 That was the first moment where I was like, you know what, I’m going to put in 110% every
0:54:04 day, I want to stay, I want to try my best, ends up the whole class is in Excel, whole
0:54:08 major is in Excel, so really in efforts past this class, that is how I ended up falling
0:54:10 in love with it.
0:54:13 And then when I got into corporate, I talked about the first presentation I gave in our
0:54:17 New York office where I thought like 10 people would come and it was the most packed training
0:54:19 room I’ve ever seen.
0:54:23 People carrying in chairs from the kitchen, they ran out of seats and I was like, why
0:54:26 do so many people care about learning Excel?
0:54:29 And that’s why I had my revelation about how being efficient Excel can help you X, Y,
0:54:34 Z, you know, and then it flows into the whole value promise.
0:54:35 I love that.
0:54:37 And how do you keep people engaged in the webinar?
0:54:41 What are you doing to get them to chat, to communicate and why is that so important throughout
0:54:42 the webinar?
0:54:44 They’re always chatting in the chat.
0:54:48 So we typically had two to 3000 people on each live event.
0:54:52 So the chat is constantly like the second I get on, I’m asking them where they’re from,
0:54:53 you know, it’s going so fast.
0:54:56 I like read as many as I can, but it’s too much.
0:55:02 And then as we go through the training, I don’t actually look in the chat until after
0:55:08 I’m done teaching the Excel part, because I am full screen Excel on the screen and I’m
0:55:10 in a flow state in my teaching zone.
0:55:14 And sometimes there’s some people being negative Nancy’s in the chat or like little things
0:55:18 where I don’t want that to ever throw off my energy and giving them that attention.
0:55:20 So I will go through the Excel class.
0:55:25 We do have my boyfriend Mike, he’s my CFO, he’s also my bouncer in the chats.
0:55:27 So things get weird.
0:55:32 We got Mike in there and my team is in there too as a backup for me, but we just keep me
0:55:36 in my high vibe bubble so I can make sure I’m performing at top capacity.
0:55:41 And then once we get to the pitch, that’s where I can then visually see the chat and
0:55:42 our slides.
0:55:48 And we just added things actually in our last set that were pretty cool, where I intentionally
0:55:51 ask them if I can pitch, which is something we’ve never done before where it’s like, guys,
0:55:53 if something really excited, can I show you?
0:55:57 And then we also ask them, can you let me know in the chat how you like the session?
0:56:01 Those are two things we actually just added, and it’s awesome for testimonials because
0:56:04 a lot of times people are putting it in there, but it’s more scattered.
0:56:09 Now I have thousands of people moving really quickly of all the different feedback.
0:56:13 So those two we integrated, and then I stay on an extra 30 minutes and I will answer any
0:56:16 questions they have literally as long as they need.
0:56:20 And something too with the chat that actually works really well, it kind of turns into almost
0:56:24 like auction vibes at the end, because all of people will be like, Nancy, be like, wait,
0:56:26 I’m getting my credit card.
0:56:27 Don’t shut it down.
0:56:28 I want the gift with purchase.
0:56:29 I’m like, okay, we got Nancy in the chat.
0:56:30 Anybody else?
0:56:31 Let me know your name.
0:56:32 I will keep it open for you.
0:56:36 And they’re like, wait, me, and then more people start going through.
0:56:40 So I usually stay on an extra 20 minutes where people are just like, but wait, I want it
0:56:41 too.
0:56:46 And that, you know, drags on longer, but we’re having fun, we’re having fun out there.
0:56:47 That’s amazing.
0:56:49 I love that you pointed out a couple of really cool things.
0:56:54 So asking for permission for you to sell, you’re probably saying like, hey, if I accomplish
0:56:58 XYZ, do I have permission to tell you about this new thing?
0:57:01 And then people are like more open to buy.
0:57:05 And the other thing that I love to do on webinars is get people to say yes, yes, I want them
0:57:07 to say yes throughout the whole webinar.
0:57:11 So at the end, when you’re selling, they feel like they’re in the mode of saying yes.
0:57:12 Right.
0:57:14 And I feel like that’s a strategy too.
0:57:19 So let’s talk about how you actually bring people to the webinar.
0:57:21 What’s your best strategies to invite people to the webinar?
0:57:25 You talked about affiliates, but what are you doing personally to get them to the webinar?
0:57:29 We do the majority of it through our organic channels and our mailing list.
0:57:30 So mailing list is number one.
0:57:31 Mailing list is the goal.
0:57:34 We do a five email drip to the mailing list.
0:57:36 We also have a newsletter that goes out every week.
0:57:39 So we have it like inside of our newsletter as well.
0:57:41 And then we also do a little bit of paid ads.
0:57:45 That’s something we’ve been ramping up over time, but we do have paid ads.
0:57:50 And then the affiliate programs, the other really big one and social content.
0:57:52 And I do like stories.
0:57:53 It’s so interesting.
0:57:55 My audience likes very specific stories.
0:58:00 It has to be like me far away doing something and a bunch of words on the screen.
0:58:03 And those will blast through the algorithm.
0:58:06 And then anything else just doesn’t, but I’m able to slip in the promotions on the bottom
0:58:07 of those posts.
0:58:10 So I let them in of like behind the scenes of what I’m actually like doing in my life
0:58:13 because I’m probably like the worst influencer.
0:58:18 I never post what I’m doing online, most people do not know where, what country I’m in, what
0:58:19 I’m doing.
0:58:24 I keep a very DL, but during webinar promotion, I open up the door and I’m just like, Hey,
0:58:28 we’re working on this behind the scenes and like kind of let them into that stuff.
0:58:33 And what’s the best way that you found to actually get people to go from TikTok or Instagram
0:58:36 to your actual website to purchase your course?
0:58:38 Is it a link in bio?
0:58:39 Is it many chat automations?
0:58:40 What are you doing?
0:58:41 We do it all.
0:58:44 So we usually do many chat into the webinar.
0:58:47 So we have like a funnel, they comment, level up, they get the link to the webinar.
0:58:49 And then I sell them on the webinar.
0:58:53 We don’t do as much direct to course sales unless it’s the Black Friday sale or something
0:58:54 like that.
0:58:57 And then we also always have the link in bio for that too.
0:58:59 So I would say those are the main ones.
0:59:03 Sometimes we’ll repost a viral piece of content with the call to action on it and that’ll
0:59:05 make it through the algorithm pretty far too.
0:59:06 Cool.
0:59:11 So your main strategy is social posts to webinar, email to webinar, and then everybody gets
0:59:13 converted on one big webinar.
0:59:14 Yeah.
0:59:15 I love it.
0:59:18 So what other revenue streams do you have outside of your courses?
0:59:22 In addition to the courses, we also have the B2B side of the business.
0:59:25 So that’s what my partner, Mike, he’s our CFO.
0:59:29 He runs that and we have a sales team now that goes out and sells the companies.
0:59:34 So we work with over 300 organizations now from like Kraft Heinz, Enterprise Rent-A-Car.
0:59:39 We work with all different schools, organizations, and we do a couple of different things there.
0:59:43 For some of them, they do bulk course purchases.
0:59:46 So we’ll either integrate with their learning management system or if they just want like
0:59:51 a small group, like five to 10, we give them discounts and we put them in the courses there.
0:59:55 And then we also do live custom one hour sessions.
1:00:00 So those are either with me or the demand for me got so high that I hired another trainer.
1:00:05 So we have a sort of a miss excel trainer who I trained up and she’s incredible.
1:00:09 And so a lot of times too, we’ll book her out on jobs depending on what the client wants.
1:00:14 And then we’re also working on something this quarter where it’s essentially going to be
1:00:18 a simulive experience because I realized, for example, I do trainings for one of the
1:00:23 big four accounting firms and they like pre-produced events.
1:00:25 It’d be like 17,000 people on it once.
1:00:26 They don’t want me on a live.
1:00:28 They want to pre-produce it.
1:00:33 They got the videographers, everybody’s on camera and or on the Zoom meeting while I’m
1:00:34 recording it.
1:00:35 And that’s where I had a brain blast.
1:00:40 I was like, whoa, like they want to have the ability to have this video pre-recorded.
1:00:41 We know it’s perfect.
1:00:42 We know everything’s lined up.
1:00:45 And then they’re the ones who hit the go button.
1:00:50 So we’re working on our end to create a really cool experience that I honestly don’t think
1:00:54 the corporate space has seen before, where we’re integrating some things that we do in
1:00:55 our courses.
1:01:00 So for example, our courses, I refilmed my entire Excel one recently, where we leverage
1:01:03 AI to make them so cool and engaging.
1:01:05 I build worlds inside of Excel.
1:01:09 For example, with the Miss Excel Zoo, it is a zoo built inside of a spreadsheet where
1:01:11 I’m full blown dressed as a zookeeper.
1:01:15 With AI, I’m inside the zoo in my spreadsheet and we’re working on the animal data.
1:01:18 We have a kitchen one where we run a restaurant.
1:01:19 I’m in a chef outfit.
1:01:23 I’m literally recording it in my room here on a blank background, but I’m inside of
1:01:25 this kitchen world and we have that data.
1:01:30 So I’m now able to, if it’s pre-recorded, to be able to integrate those aspects to create
1:01:33 really cool simulated live experiences.
1:01:38 And then we’re someone on our team is running the Q&A live on the chat, but then I don’t
1:01:39 have to physically be there.
1:01:43 And then we could really scale this up because the demand for me has been really high.
1:01:47 So that’s something where we’re looking to alleviate some of my time, but then also just
1:01:49 make the corporate experience so much cooler.
1:01:51 Yeah, it sounds so fun.
1:01:53 You are so freaking creative.
1:01:59 You really are a true creative mind and you make what other people probably think is boring
1:02:00 so fun.
1:02:03 And I feel like that’s really one of your secret sauces.
1:02:10 In terms of how you bundle your packages and sell your courses, the price points, do you
1:02:11 have any thoughts?
1:02:13 You’ve been doing this for a while now.
1:02:16 How do you feel like people should sell their courses most effectively in terms of how they
1:02:18 bundle and price it?
1:02:26 For us, we did not pass the six figure mark until we got to the around $1,000 price mark
1:02:29 with creating more courses and then bundling them together.
1:02:35 For us, what works really well is I give them the most no-brainer deal where you are getting
1:02:38 nine courses for the price of one and a half.
1:02:41 So when you’re on a live webinar or when you’re getting that discount code plus gift with
1:02:47 purchases and things like that, I make it the most no-brainer situation for them.
1:02:51 And that has helped a lot with driving up our sales and getting to those higher price
1:02:57 points because our Excel courses start around $297 for a regular Excel course and then we
1:03:02 go up to a little over $1,000 to get our complete Microsoft Office suite, where you get lifetime
1:03:07 access to all the training, video supplies, all the things, and they’re continually updated.
1:03:12 So I kind of equate what our product is, is the Netflix of Microsoft Office.
1:03:16 And that’s how I get a lot of people to draw the connection because they’re like, “Wait,
1:03:18 I can watch whenever I want anywhere anytime.”
1:03:22 I’m like, “Yes, you have access to all of that in your back pocket.
1:03:23 Everything’s clearly labeled.
1:03:27 It’s like having me back there like, “Oh, what did Kat say about a VLOOKUP?
1:03:30 There she is, five to 10 minutes less than boom.”
1:03:32 So that’s something that’s really helped us, too.
1:03:34 I love all your tips that you shared.
1:03:39 I’m sure a lot of entrepreneurs that are tuning in are like, “How can I sell my expertise
1:03:41 like Kat?”
1:03:46 And some of them might be thinking, “Am I really a good enough expert to sell my expertise?
1:03:47 Like, am I ready?
1:03:52 What would you say qualifies somebody to be ready to do something like you did and start
1:03:54 selling their expertise?”
1:03:56 You’re ready before you think you’re ready.
1:03:57 That’s the biggest thing.
1:04:03 A lot of times people will stand in their own way and you know more than you think you know.
1:04:07 And especially if you are a teacher and you’re teaching something, you’re a really quick learner.
1:04:11 So if you feel like there are any gaps, I would say fill in the gaps with what you need to
1:04:13 do to get yourself to that level.
1:04:17 But a lot of the time you know already what you need to know, and it’s a matter of breaking
1:04:22 any subconscious patterns that are keeping you in that place where that’s telling you
1:04:23 that you’re not the expert.
1:04:26 Because it’s very easy to get intimidated by other people, especially if they have a
1:04:32 big audience, great website, they must be so official, like dig into those people.
1:04:37 I do a whole thing too, where instead of viewing, I don’t view anybody as competition, I view
1:04:41 them as expanders, where I can look at them and I’ll find a way that I can relate to that
1:04:45 person and be like, “Oh, like they did this for four years.
1:04:46 I did this for four years.”
1:04:51 Like little things where then you can create that connection to them, be like if they could
1:04:52 do it, I can do it too.
1:04:57 So using anyone that’s intimidating you as a way to expand your own subconscious, use
1:05:00 it as a tool to further your own development.
1:05:05 And then also just having that confidence in yourself, because there are so many people
1:05:08 that will go out there and just pitch their stuff.
1:05:11 I’ve seen this time and time again, they don’t even have experience in the thing.
1:05:14 Like some people are just really good at sales.
1:05:18 If there’s people out there doing that, trust me, if you’re to the point where you can make
1:05:21 a course on something, you know your stuff.
1:05:23 I know that authenticity is really important.
1:05:29 And I think why people are drawn to you is because you really do have a super deep expertise
1:05:32 in Excel and you really can teach a lot of different things.
1:05:37 So what advice do you have to other folks who want to become better experts?
1:05:41 What should they do to become a top expert in their field?
1:05:46 So I think it depends on what the field is, but I’m always a big fan of continued education,
1:05:47 obviously courses.
1:05:51 I’m in the course of business, so I love taking courses and learning things.
1:05:55 And then also, similar to what I said with expansion, finding people out there who are
1:05:58 doing what you want to do.
1:05:59 And that’s something to work.
1:06:01 It’s like the four-minute mile thing.
1:06:04 Like when people saw other people could do it, they could do it.
1:06:05 Same thing here.
1:06:09 If you feel like you can’t get to that next level, there’s something in your way.
1:06:13 Like finding people who are there in order to expand your own mind.
1:06:17 And then take a look at what they’re doing and start living and making decisions from
1:06:18 that place.
1:06:20 That’s something that’s been really big for me, too.
1:06:25 We hired a lot of people in the last eight-ish months.
1:06:28 We added like 10 more people to our team.
1:06:31 And I had this moment, I was listening to, it was a podcast episode, actually, with my
1:06:35 business coach, James Wedmore and Natalie Ellis.
1:06:40 And I was listening to that and they were talking about how they figured out when they
1:06:45 were spending too much time on certain tasks that needed to be outsourced.
1:06:49 For me, it was just like listening to a podcast episode, I was like, boom, wait, that’s me
1:06:50 right now.
1:06:51 I need to hire people.
1:06:52 I’m the one holding myself in place.
1:06:54 I’m the one, the bottleneck here.
1:06:57 From there, it just became super clear of what to do.
1:06:59 And then it’s following your intuition.
1:07:06 What I found for myself is that when I actually teach other people, it reinforces it in my
1:07:07 brain.
1:07:12 And even if I’m teaching something that is kind of new, if I teach it two, three times,
1:07:14 suddenly it’s like, I know it like the back of my hands.
1:07:19 I’m the expert on this specific topic, even if I learned it two weeks ago and I just taught
1:07:20 it a bunch of times recently, right?
1:07:25 So I feel like don’t be afraid to just learn something and teach it right away.
1:07:30 And you’ll actually get it reinforced and it will become part of your nomenclature like
1:07:32 just automatically if you do that.
1:07:33 Okay.
1:07:39 So last question for you, I found out that you only work three to four hours a day, which
1:07:40 is incredible.
1:07:43 I don’t know if this is true or not, but this is what I read in my research.
1:07:48 You work just a few hours a day, walk us through what your typical day looks like and why you’ve
1:07:51 decided that you’re going to have this four hour workday.
1:07:56 It’s even less now because I’ve outsourced pretty much like 90% of the stuff I had to
1:07:57 do.
1:08:01 I can work when I feel creative and when I want to do something.
1:08:04 And that was something when designing this business, I was not going to put myself back
1:08:07 in the same spot where I was working 50, 60 hours a week.
1:08:11 I did a little hustle in the beginning, got this thing off the ground, but I was like,
1:08:16 I’m not going to build something that’s entrapping me and I want to enjoy the journey.
1:08:20 I want to live my life as I’m growing this because Ms. Excel is a direct reflection of
1:08:21 my own energy.
1:08:26 So if I’m feeling contracted, if I’m feeling like I’m being forced to do something, it’s
1:08:28 not good energy for the business.
1:08:33 So really, it was a game of just hiring out certain things that I was doing where they
1:08:38 could do it so much faster than me too, things that their experts in and having the team
1:08:40 to back it up helped a lot.
1:08:44 But typically, our day-to-day looks totally different depending on what we’re doing.
1:08:48 We spent the summer living in Europe and just traveling and maybe we got on a team meeting
1:08:51 once a week, but the business is a well-oiled machine now.
1:08:53 We have systems in place.
1:08:55 We have an incredible team.
1:08:58 Being running smoothly, it doesn’t require much from me.
1:09:03 Where I come into play is more of strategy, visionary, partnerships.
1:09:05 Where are we taking this train?
1:09:07 And that’s something I take really seriously.
1:09:12 So even if it looks like on the outside, I’m not traditionally working sitting at a desk.
1:09:17 When I’m off-roading through the desert, riding on their quad, that puts me in a creative
1:09:21 flow state because my body is relaxed and I’ll start getting tons of ideas and then
1:09:22 I write them down.
1:09:27 I learn the way to work my body and to work my nervous system to be able to make myself
1:09:32 into a place where I can get the creative downloads because in the end, I am the one
1:09:36 making the decisions and being the visionary and it’s really important that I need to work
1:09:37 my intuition.
1:09:41 So typically, our day-to-day, I’ve been really into the biohacking space, so I’m getting
1:09:44 all crazy with optimizing my body and my health.
1:09:49 So I’m waking up, going out on the balcony, looking at the sunrise, helping with my circadian
1:09:54 rhythm, eating clean food and I just say yes to things that feel like a hell yes, like
1:09:57 this podcast talking to you and like, “Hell, yes.”
1:10:01 So things like that, things that light me up are the things I’m going to do.
1:10:05 And then sometimes webinar weeks, for example, I’m hustling during a webinar week.
1:10:12 I’m running six or seven 90-minute events where during those, it takes a ton of my energy.
1:10:16 If I was sitting there then doing all the emails myself and doing everything, that would
1:10:19 be really hard for me to spin it back around and do it again.
1:10:23 So that’s where I’m like, “Okay, I need to outsource that so I can hang up the webinar.”
1:10:28 And I have another one in an hour, I’m like laying on my PEMF mat with negative ions wrapped
1:10:29 in a crystal blanket.
1:10:31 Doing some meditation.
1:10:34 I got to do things to bring my nervous system back.
1:10:35 Yeah.
1:10:38 I love my PEMF mat, a higher dose.
1:10:39 Higher dose?
1:10:40 I love that.
1:10:43 Yes, it’s the best every day.
1:10:44 Okay.
1:10:48 So one thing that I found out is that you’re actually editing your own videos still.
1:10:52 Is that true because you were talking about outsourcing, but are you still editing your
1:10:53 own videos?
1:10:54 No.
1:10:55 Not anymore.
1:10:56 Okay.
1:11:00 No, we have a couple editors on deck now, one that does social, one that does courses.
1:11:02 We built like a full course studio in the house now.
1:11:03 So we have like a TikTok studio.
1:11:05 I got rid of all my guest rooms.
1:11:06 Amazing.
1:11:07 Yeah.
1:11:08 And like I built studios and offices.
1:11:10 So I’m like, “I want to utilize every room of this house.”
1:11:14 We bought our dream house in Sedona and I was like, “I want to just make sure we’re fully
1:11:16 utilizing this space.”
1:11:21 So we have course studio, we got TikTok studio, and then office down below now.
1:11:22 Amazing.
1:11:24 Well, congratulations on all your success.
1:11:27 I end my show with two questions that I ask all of my guests.
1:11:32 The first one is, what is one actionable thing our young and profitors can do today to become
1:11:34 more profitable tomorrow?
1:11:37 Taking messy action is what needs to be done.
1:11:41 So it’s one of those things where I would not have a business right now.
1:11:46 If I did not step past any perfectionist tendencies like in waiting for the right time and all
1:11:48 the things, all I did was take messy action.
1:11:51 That is all I continue to do.
1:11:53 Don’t be scared to fall flat on your face.
1:11:54 Most people are not even watching.
1:11:55 You pick yourself back up.
1:11:56 You’re good.
1:11:57 I love that advice.
1:12:01 And what would you say is your secret to profiting in life?
1:12:07 I would say the biggest secret is continually working on myself because I will only call
1:12:13 in the amount of abundance and the amount of opportunity that my nervous system can hold.
1:12:18 So I can actually tell in my body when I’m reaching that threshold, my eyes will start
1:12:19 twitching.
1:12:20 I’ll start having little bits of anxiety.
1:12:25 I can tell I’m reaching that limit where the amount I’m taking on, the amount of opportunities,
1:12:27 and I won’t receive any more than that.
1:12:31 My whole business pretty much has been inbound leads.
1:12:35 So all our corporate clients, all opportunities, all the things, the partnerships, they come
1:12:36 inbound.
1:12:39 So if my energy is repelling that, I’m like, “Ah, too much.”
1:12:41 They won’t come through.
1:12:46 So my job as an entrepreneur and CEO of the company is to keep working on me so that I
1:12:50 can grow the biggest business I can and the most profitable and most impactful business
1:12:54 I can because I can hold that opportunity.
1:12:57 So that’s something I’m always just working on myself.
1:13:02 Well, I’ve just thought of a new course idea, manifestation for entrepreneurs, you really
1:13:03 got it down.
1:13:04 Yeah.
1:13:05 So I love that, Kat.
1:13:07 It was such an awesome conversation that we had today.
1:13:09 I feel like it was really actionable.
1:13:10 I feel like your story is so inspiring.
1:13:12 Thank you so much for spending time with us today.
1:13:14 Thank you for having me.
1:13:15 This was awesome.
1:13:16 Yeah, it was super fun.
1:13:22 Thank you so much for having me.
1:13:26 Thank you so much for having me.
1:13:27 Thank you.
1:13:28 Thank you.
1:13:29 Thank you.
1:13:30 Thank you.
1:13:31 Thank you.

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0:01:21 Oh man, young and profitors.
0:01:25 If you’re trying to figure out how to market yourself through online video, you’re going
0:01:28 to want to tune into this YAP classic.
0:01:32 Today we’re taking it back to episode 230 from June 2023 and it’s an interview that
0:01:36 I did with marketing megastar Ken Okazaki.
0:01:40 It’s an absolute masterclass in how to post high-performing video content.
0:01:44 Ken is kind of the guy behind all the guys.
0:01:50 Like he is the mastermind behind so many popular influencers that you know and love.
0:01:53 Ken has been producing videos since he was a teenager.
0:01:57 And now he’s the head of Oz Media Global, where he helps his clients generate millions
0:02:00 of dollars from video marketing.
0:02:04 In this episode, Ken shares how to optimize video content to gain more views, leads and
0:02:05 sales.
0:02:11 He breaks down his seven-figure video funnel framework and also his famous toilet strategy.
0:02:14 And I shit you not, you’re going to want to stay tuned for that one.
0:02:18 So let’s stop procrastinating when it comes to online videos.
0:02:26 Take that plunge right now and start your education with the one and only Ken Okazaki.
0:02:28 So Ken, thank you so much for being here.
0:02:31 I definitely want to jump right into your story.
0:02:35 Through my research, I discovered that when you were 17, you left your home in Japan and
0:02:38 traveled to several different countries.
0:02:42 So tell us about that journey and how you first got interested into video marketing and
0:02:44 what led you to your career today.
0:02:46 Wow, you did do your research.
0:02:51 So 17 years old, this actually started when I was eight years old.
0:02:55 And I’m going to compress this as much as I possibly can to honor everybody’s time.
0:02:59 But there was a time I was sitting in the back of the classroom and I realized the teacher
0:03:02 was teaching the same thing that was being taught a week ago.
0:03:03 And I went to my dad.
0:03:05 I said, dad, why do they keep teaching the same stuff?
0:03:07 And he says, well, maybe someone in the class didn’t get it.
0:03:10 And at that moment, I realized that they’re teaching everything to the pace of the slowest
0:03:11 person.
0:03:13 And I started feeling claustrophobic.
0:03:15 I started feeling stressed about it.
0:03:17 And I said, how much more of this is there?
0:03:20 And he explained, you’re in elementary school, you know, then there’s junior high.
0:03:21 And I was like, then I’m done.
0:03:22 Right.
0:03:23 And he goes, well, then there’s high school.
0:03:24 I said, and then I’m done.
0:03:25 Right.
0:03:26 And he goes, well, you know, then there’s college.
0:03:29 And at that point, I was like, there’s got to be another way.
0:03:34 So long story short, he got me enrolled in American curriculum in Japan.
0:03:35 I’m Japanese.
0:03:36 I live in Japan.
0:03:39 I’ve never lived in the States, even though I sound kind of American.
0:03:42 It’s because I got enrolled in an American school.
0:03:46 So this allowed me, because it was a correspondence course to go at my own pace.
0:03:49 So by 17, I’d finished everything.
0:03:51 And I told my parents, I want to leave home.
0:03:55 And I literally did that thing where you take a globe and you spin it, you close your eyes
0:03:58 and you pop your finger down it, ended up in India.
0:04:01 I told my parents, I’m leaving home, I’m going to India.
0:04:03 And I did that.
0:04:07 And it was 11 years of, you know, after leaving home going to India that I traveled to multiple
0:04:12 countries, got married, had kids 11 years before I came back home to Japan.
0:04:13 Wow.
0:04:16 So that’s how we got started, the backstory.
0:04:17 That’s amazing.
0:04:20 And then what first got you intrigued with video marketing?
0:04:22 How did you first start dabbling in video marketing?
0:04:24 Yeah, really good.
0:04:26 After India, I was trying to figure out, hey, what’s next?
0:04:32 And I had a friend who was commissioned to create a documentary series in Uganda.
0:04:34 And he asked me, hey, I need some help.
0:04:35 You know how to like operate a camera and stuff, right?
0:04:37 And I was like, sure.
0:04:41 And I thought Uganda sounds like the next great stop for me.
0:04:46 So I went and borrowed a camera and just started playing with it, figuring out the settings.
0:04:50 And this is 1999 actually, so that shows you how old I am.
0:04:54 So I just figured it out because I wanted to get on this guy’s team and make documentaries
0:04:55 in Uganda.
0:04:58 So from there, I just always had a camera in my hand.
0:05:00 It was just second nature to me.
0:05:02 We got to fly Air Force One with the president.
0:05:03 We got to go silverback gorillas.
0:05:09 I went into war zones with the Congo at the time when there was a civil war going on.
0:05:14 So that was a lot of excitement and adrenaline kind of stuff I was looking for at that time.
0:05:15 That’s how it all started.
0:05:16 I love that.
0:05:20 And so also from our research, we found out that you used to put on really big events
0:05:23 with your dad for people like Tony Robbins.
0:05:26 And you actually completed Tony Robbins’ platinum partnership.
0:05:28 Tony hopefully is coming on the show soon.
0:05:31 He asked to come on my show, but we still haven’t booked it yet.
0:05:32 Excellent.
0:05:37 And I’d love to understand, did you learn anything from Tony Robbins or did he inspire
0:05:38 you in any way?
0:05:39 Let me just get this straight.
0:05:42 So Tony Robbins is asking you to come on this show, yet here I am beforehand.
0:05:45 So that’s a pretty big deal, right?
0:05:48 Tony Robbins asked to come on my show.
0:05:49 Amazing.
0:05:53 And then we’ve been trying to book it, and it hasn’t happened, but I’m like, hey, he
0:05:54 wants to come on.
0:05:55 We’re just…
0:05:56 He’s got a busy schedule.
0:05:57 Yeah.
0:06:00 But I’ve seen the caliber of guests that come on your show, so I’m not at all surprised
0:06:05 if in just a few short months you’ll have a U.S. president on here.
0:06:06 Aw, thanks, Ken.
0:06:08 That’s where I think this is going.
0:06:11 But about the events, I used to do large-scale events in Japan.
0:06:13 Tony Robbins is one of the speakers we hired at one point.
0:06:18 I did work with other partners, but people like Jordan Belfer, Les Brown, Nick Vujicic,
0:06:24 Robert Kiyosaki, these are the kind of people that if you hire them and you get them to be
0:06:29 the main draw of your event, you can put two to 8,000 people in a stadium.
0:06:32 And that’s what we do every other month, and that was the business we did.
0:06:34 And we did it primarily with video marketing.
0:06:40 So that’s why I got really confident what I do is I had the experience of putting butts
0:06:45 in seats by telling a compelling story with video on social media.
0:06:46 I love that.
0:06:48 So let’s get into the meat and potatoes of this interview.
0:06:52 We have the Video Marketing Guy, guys, on this podcast.
0:06:58 We all know how important video is, but to really give us some foundational knowledge
0:07:02 in terms of why video helps us convert more sales.
0:07:06 Why is video the best marketing tactic to actually convert leads?
0:07:09 Yeah, I’ll answer that a little slightly differently.
0:07:13 I don’t know if it is the best for everybody in every situation.
0:07:18 I’ve seen situations where people are running ad campaigns and they split test a video against
0:07:19 an image.
0:07:21 They split it against just text.
0:07:23 And I’ve seen it not perform the best.
0:07:27 So I’m not the guy who’s going to be shouting off the rooftop saying, “Everybody needs to
0:07:28 do video all the time.”
0:07:32 I think video is a great tool among a whole arsenal.
0:07:34 You need paid ads, right?
0:07:35 Sometimes it’s text.
0:07:38 Sometimes there’s a book people will be more attracted to than a video.
0:07:43 So I think video is great to have in your arsenal, but don’t make it the sole focus
0:07:46 and shut your eyes off to all the other great things that are out there.
0:07:52 Blogging is still, by the way, extremely effective for getting SEO and ranking on Google.
0:07:56 So now that I’ve made that disclaimer, I think the great thing about video, there’s this
0:07:58 thing about being human.
0:08:03 I think AI is getting pretty close to catching up, but when you can look someone in the eye
0:08:07 and you see the whites of their eye and you feel the passion they have in their voice,
0:08:13 that is something that a trained copywriter may be able to attain after a lot of experience.
0:08:17 But anybody who’s passionate about what they do personally on the other side can feel it.
0:08:22 And that’s why there’s this shortened gap of time from when someone starts making video
0:08:27 to when they can start effectively communicating not just the words that they’re saying, but
0:08:29 what they’re feeling to the viewer.
0:08:31 And that’s the magical thing about video.
0:08:32 I love that.
0:08:36 And I’m happy that you made that distinguishing factor because it’s true.
0:08:37 Everybody can…
0:08:41 Like there’s different things that work for everyone in different scenarios, and so you’ve
0:08:44 got to make sure that you use the right tool in your toolbox.
0:08:50 So speaking of having to sort of how people are on a spectrum when it comes to their video
0:08:51 skills.
0:08:52 You talk about this in your book.
0:08:56 You say that they’re either a dabbler, a part-timer, a pro, or a rock star.
0:09:01 So talk to us about from all the way to a dabbler to a rock star, what are the elements
0:09:02 of each person?
0:09:03 Yeah.
0:09:07 Well, a dabbler is the one who’s going to see somebody else, maybe a friend or an associate
0:09:11 on social media, and they’re going to pick up their phone and say, “I can do that.”
0:09:13 And they shoot a few videos, they get exhausted, and they…
0:09:17 What happens is they put in the effort, but they don’t do it consistently enough that
0:09:19 it becomes a habit and they start getting traction.
0:09:24 So they’ve got no money as a result of it, 99.99% of the time.
0:09:25 It’s not going to go anywhere.
0:09:29 Then at the next level, you’ve got people who actually do this consistently, but they’re
0:09:33 not at the point where they can get people to the point of a sale, like maybe you don’t
0:09:37 have a product, you don’t have a business setup, and you’re going to reach some success,
0:09:38 and we’ll call that bonus money.
0:09:42 Every now and then, somebody might pop up and they’ll Google you and find what you’ve
0:09:45 got to offer, and they’ll buy it, but it’s not consistent.
0:09:51 And anything above that, what’s happening is consistency, systems, and processes so
0:09:54 that it’s no longer when you feel like it.
0:09:57 You’re treating it like an occupation, a career, a job.
0:10:02 If you don’t show up, things don’t happen, and that’s when success builds on success,
0:10:06 and that’s when people start realizing, “Hey, this person is a pillar in this vertical,
0:10:11 in this niche, in this industry, and the more they hear you, the more they want to hear
0:10:12 about you.”
0:10:16 I’m not going to go into too much detail here for the sake of time, but the rock stars
0:10:21 are the people who, in a nutshell, you’re no longer pushing your content.
0:10:24 Your audience is pulling the content from you.
0:10:27 The demand for it is greater than your effort to push it out there.
0:10:29 You’re getting more people to share it.
0:10:31 You’re getting people requesting to be on your show.
0:10:35 You’re getting so much engagement that you’ll never run out of ideas because you can just
0:10:39 lick at the comments and use that for your content ideas.
0:10:45 And that’s that feeling of getting pulled, and once you reach that, there’s a lot of
0:10:51 people who just realize that there is this, I guess, it’s like the flywheel type of feeling,
0:10:54 and that’s flow, and that’s where I want all my clients to get.
0:10:55 I love that.
0:10:58 I hope that we all get to that place with our videos.
0:11:03 Let’s talk about how we can look pro without necessarily having pro equipment.
0:11:07 I know that you’re a big advocate of using our iPhone and that we shouldn’t really make
0:11:09 an excuse when it comes to equipment.
0:11:10 So can you talk to us about that?
0:11:11 Yeah.
0:11:12 It was like I chased Jarvis.
0:11:16 He’s the one who said that phrase, “The best camera is the one you’ve got with you,” right?
0:11:18 And we’ve all got phones.
0:11:21 Real quick, one of the things women always ask me is, “How can I look thinner?”
0:11:26 And the simplest way is to just raise your phone if it’s like here, just at a slightly
0:11:30 higher level than your eyes, what’s going to happen is going to taper your whole figure
0:11:34 down to more like a V where your eyes are going to pop a little bit bigger, your forehead’s
0:11:38 going to look hopefully ought too big.
0:11:44 But what happens is you get that really nice pointy jaw line and everything as it goes
0:11:46 further down looks a little bit slimmer.
0:11:48 And it’s just this working the angles, right?
0:11:49 Yeah.
0:11:52 Ideally, most people are going to want to be exactly at eye level.
0:11:57 And there’s this experiment I did where I sat people across from a diner table with me
0:11:58 and had conversations with them.
0:12:00 And then I met people in person.
0:12:06 And the thing is that people consistently told me they felt more connected to me when they’re
0:12:07 sitting across.
0:12:11 And I realized what’s happening is the length of your legs are canceled out.
0:12:14 And you’re much more likely to be seeing exactly eye to eye with someone.
0:12:18 Because when you’re standing, the height difference really makes you feel either short or tall,
0:12:20 inferior, superior, child, parent.
0:12:25 There’s these relationships that our psychological brains have already embedded in there.
0:12:29 But when you get the camera exactly at your eye level, then there’s that phrase, “Sing
0:12:30 eye to eye.”
0:12:34 And people no longer feel threatened by you or they don’t feel superior to you.
0:12:37 They feel like they could have a one-on-one conversation with you.
0:12:39 And right now, I’m looking at your camera setup.
0:12:40 You’re exactly eye to eye.
0:12:44 My camera is slightly higher simply because the way my room is set up, I can’t get it
0:12:46 lower.
0:12:48 But ideally, if you got a phone, then you don’t know where to start.
0:12:49 Get it right at eye level.
0:12:51 A lot of people have it low.
0:12:55 That’s what I call the nose hairs on, where people are literally seeing your nose hairs.
0:12:57 Not the most attractive angle.
0:13:00 So I think one really simple thing is just figure out your angles.
0:13:02 Do you want to look a little bit more petite, slim?
0:13:05 Do you want to look eye to eye like you’re having a conversation?
0:13:09 Or do you want to be a little bit more dominant looking, a bit of a bigger father figure?
0:13:11 Then you bring it a little bit lower.
0:13:12 Not too low.
0:13:14 You get stuck in the nose hairs on.
0:13:15 Yeah.
0:13:16 This is really great.
0:13:17 And I don’t remember who told me this.
0:13:22 But to your point, when you’re looking up in your video, you actually look like you’re
0:13:23 less authoritative.
0:13:27 If it’s slightly lower, you look more authoritative, but like you said, you don’t want to have
0:13:29 people look in your nose.
0:13:31 And here’s one small trick.
0:13:35 I’ve had so many female clients and they’re deathly afraid of showing a tiny bit of a
0:13:38 double chin, which I do sympathize with them.
0:13:41 And there’s this, I call it the chicken move.
0:13:45 And this is something that I learned because I watched it behind the scenes of Tom Cruise
0:13:47 at one of his debuts.
0:13:50 And from the front, they’re about to take the group photo, right?
0:13:51 And he’s standing there.
0:13:55 What he does is he cranes his chin out as far as he can toward the camera.
0:13:58 And I realized that when he was sitting natural, he had a tiny bit of a double chin.
0:14:01 And I only installed this because there was a side angle and someone shot a view from
0:14:05 this like three to what, and it goes like this.
0:14:09 But then here’s the thing from the front that actually you can’t really tell, right?
0:14:12 And if you’re looking right at the camera and you’re deathly afraid of the double chin,
0:14:15 you just kind of stick your head for like a chicken.
0:14:16 The turtle move.
0:14:18 Yeah, or a turtle.
0:14:21 And then I started seeing it everywhere in Hollywood photo shoots.
0:14:26 If you look from the side angle, all the women are doing that right before the photo or before
0:14:27 like a close-up shot.
0:14:28 I thought that is so brilliant.
0:14:30 Nobody even knows it happens because they’re not looking for it.
0:14:36 So it’s just a hack, especially because I know women are very conscious about how they
0:14:37 look and they should be.
0:14:39 It’s just a little trick that might help you.
0:14:41 Yeah, I love that.
0:14:43 And I know that you have this phrase, love the lens.
0:14:44 Yes.
0:14:46 What does that mean to you?
0:14:48 Right now I’m looking right at the camera.
0:14:49 I’m looking right at you.
0:14:53 And hopefully the viewer can see that I’m looking right at the camera.
0:14:55 If I were to look just a little bit off, then it feels different.
0:14:58 Right now I’m looking at the monitor where you are.
0:15:00 And I’ve tested conversions on this.
0:15:04 And when you’re looking right at the camera, and even if it’s the difference of looking
0:15:10 right at the camera here or at your own face, the conversions on the video will change.
0:15:14 I don’t know if you’ve heard of someone named Alex Hormozzi, but I audited his stuff on
0:15:16 Instagram and on TikTok.
0:15:19 And we look for the things that the algorithms can’t find because we manage a lot of people
0:15:22 in social media and we want to make sure we’re giving good advice.
0:15:23 I don’t make predictions.
0:15:27 I look at data and I look at how can we use that to help them move forward, right?
0:15:32 And we look for patterns in the top performing videos and the bottom performing videos.
0:15:33 And we look for the commonalities.
0:15:38 And one of the commonalities that we found is when he’s looking off camera, those are
0:15:42 like 80% of the videos that were in the bottom 10% here, he’s looking off camera.
0:15:46 And 80% of the videos in the top 10%, he’s looking straight into the camera.
0:15:50 And when I saw that, I was like, where else can we see this pattern?
0:15:52 And most people, it’s the same thing.
0:15:56 So loving the lens is disciplining yourself to look at the little black dot.
0:15:58 I call it black circle confidence.
0:16:01 That black circle is your audience.
0:16:04 It’s not looking at your own faces vanity, right?
0:16:08 So if you can get to that level, then, then without effort, you’re going to be getting
0:16:09 more engagement.
0:16:11 People will feel like they’re more connected to you on video.
0:16:12 Yeah.
0:16:15 And it makes sense because eye contact works in real life.
0:16:16 Of course, it’s going to work online.
0:16:20 The same things with human behavior transfer online or offline.
0:16:21 So makes sense.
0:16:23 How about having movement in your video?
0:16:24 What is the importance of that?
0:16:25 Yeah.
0:16:31 I took this from an evolutionary perspective where as hunter-gatherers, when we’re looking
0:16:35 for the prey, right, anything that moves is where our attention will go.
0:16:37 It could be danger or it could be food.
0:16:42 And our brains are tuned to snap to where the movement is.
0:16:44 And there are simple ways you can do this in your videos.
0:16:47 When I start my videos, a lot of times, I start with, hey guys, how’s it going?
0:16:49 I put my hand real close to the camera.
0:16:53 Every 15 seconds or so, if you’re holding your phone, I just pivot about 90 degrees,
0:16:56 which is the whole background, but I’m still in the frame.
0:17:01 A lot of videos that are really successful are the ones where there’s a monologue of
0:17:05 some inspirational quote, but then you just see someone doing something like laying bricks
0:17:09 or cutting lawns, but that movement is what keeps you engaged.
0:17:14 So whatever you do, keep resetting people’s attention with movement.
0:17:17 For example, in this podcast, I’m going to guess that there’s going to be cuts.
0:17:19 There’s going to show your face, my face, that’s movement, right?
0:17:22 But if you’re not going to be editing, you could do things like moving closer to the
0:17:26 camera, further from the camera, using hand gestures, there’s all kinds of ways you can
0:17:27 do that.
0:17:28 Yeah.
0:17:31 And I see lots of influencers walking with their phone outside and things like that.
0:17:35 So this really helps me because I’m thinking about a lot of my videos, I’m sitting down
0:17:38 on a couch, I should probably be moving around.
0:17:45 Well, what you do well, I’ve been researching you too, is you can either do the movement
0:17:49 with your hands and with the camera and get that uploaded right away, or you can send
0:17:52 it to an editor and they do the movement with titles, with emojis, with little animations
0:17:53 on screen.
0:17:54 All of that is movement.
0:18:00 So if you’re not at the level where you can edit like that, then use practical movement.
0:18:02 But if you have an editor, then they can do that for you.
0:18:03 Okay.
0:18:04 That makes sense.
0:18:07 And then in terms of lighting, using your iPhone, what do we need to know?
0:18:09 Well, there’s two things you got to know.
0:18:10 Number one, avoid direct sunlight.
0:18:13 It’s going to make you like 10 years older.
0:18:15 If that’s what you’re going for, then go for it.
0:18:21 Most people are not, but the most important thing is to just hold your camera up, look
0:18:27 at your face, and turn around 360 wherever you’re at, and then you’ll very quickly see
0:18:30 where there’s more light coming from in front than behind.
0:18:33 And that’s really the most basic tip you can keep that will be effective everywhere.
0:18:37 So you go into a hotel room, you want to make sure that you’re facing the big window
0:18:40 and you’re not having it as your background, because that’s going to make you either look
0:18:44 like a silhouette or make the background look like it’s totally white.
0:18:45 So face the light.
0:18:50 And if you got that, then I think that everything else falls into place pretty quickly.
0:18:54 Let’s hold that thought and take a quick break with our sponsors.
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0:23:51 So fun fact, and I’ve heard you talk about this a few times, 80% of men and 69% of women
0:23:55 use their phone while on the toilet, and you’ve taken this data and created something called
0:23:56 the toilet strategy.
0:24:00 So what is the toilet strategy and what does this data tell us about how we should be conducting
0:24:01 video marketing?
0:24:06 Yeah, I don’t know about you, but I happen to use my phone in the toilet.
0:24:11 And when I realized that there’s that huge percentage, because that’s kind of like literally
0:24:12 your downtime, right?
0:24:15 So that’s when you’re like, you know, you’re checking messages, looking at social media,
0:24:17 and there’s a couple of things going on here.
0:24:20 And right now it may seem obvious, but when I first presented this at a conference, there
0:24:23 was like, oh my, you know, smack my head, like, that’s so obvious, why didn’t I think
0:24:24 of it?
0:24:29 But when your audience is in the toilet, you have to, well, put it this way, tune your
0:24:31 videos as if you’re speaking to someone on the toilet.
0:24:32 So there’s a couple of things going on.
0:24:36 Number one, you want to make sure there’s captions on every single word, because when
0:24:40 you’re in a public bathroom, it’s very rare that you’re going to want the speakers blaring
0:24:41 while you’re in there, right?
0:24:42 So immediately someone’s going to mute.
0:24:46 If they can’t hear you or read you, then they’re going to skip off, right?
0:24:47 So that’s rule number one.
0:24:49 Rule number two about the toilet strategy is the length.
0:24:53 There are so many times on, uh, where I’ve seen a video and I thought this is great.
0:24:56 And then what we’ve done is eye tracking tests.
0:24:58 The first thing we look at is the title to see if we want to stop the second one is the
0:24:59 person’s eyes.
0:25:05 The third place we look, believe it or not, is the play bar to see how long it is.
0:25:07 And that’s through eye tracking data.
0:25:11 And if the video is too long, like you probably want to spend five minutes in the bathroom
0:25:12 max.
0:25:15 If it’s a 20 minute video, what happens is this is a great video, but I don’t have
0:25:20 20 minutes to see safer later, which by the way, nobody ever goes to the safer later video
0:25:21 and actually watches them.
0:25:25 It’s, it is a black hole where things go in and never come back out.
0:25:27 So you never want to get safer later.
0:25:28 There’s the length.
0:25:30 You want to keep it two minutes max nowadays.
0:25:31 It’s under a minute.
0:25:32 It keeps getting shorter.
0:25:35 The third thing is really the big title on top.
0:25:40 Now that’s kind of changed because nowadays with the way TikTok format videos have really
0:25:43 taken over the algorithm chooses what shows up.
0:25:45 It’s not what you subscribe to.
0:25:50 So it doesn’t matter quite as much, but I think it’s quite effective on some platforms
0:25:55 where the thumbnail is going to be much more prominent than the actual video itself.
0:25:56 For example, YouTube.
0:25:57 Yeah.
0:25:59 Let’s take it to LinkedIn for a second.
0:26:00 So you may not know this.
0:26:02 I’m one of the biggest influencers on LinkedIn.
0:26:03 I do know it.
0:26:04 You are everywhere.
0:26:05 Oh, thank you.
0:26:11 And I have a LinkedIn masterclass and one of the things that I discovered when I was preparing
0:26:17 this masterclass is that a lot of people are watching videos with the sound off.
0:26:22 And I realized that on LinkedIn, especially everyone has a job.
0:26:25 Everyone is college graduate, serious professional.
0:26:30 But the most engaging times on that platform is 10 a.m. and everyone’s time zone.
0:26:32 So they’re watching videos at work.
0:26:36 And I was like, duh, everyone’s watching videos at work.
0:26:41 That’s why any video that’s either super long or needs sound performs terrible on that platform.
0:26:43 It needs to look really different.
0:26:47 Pattern disruption needs to be engaging with the sound off and be short.
0:26:51 Otherwise, videos do not work on that platform unless they’re LinkedIn live and people are
0:26:53 treating them like an event.
0:26:54 That’s right.
0:26:59 So I would love to understand your perspective on the importance of engaging video with the
0:27:00 sound off.
0:27:05 I think that people have been fighting for, let’s say fighting against it for so long
0:27:08 because radio came up before TV, right?
0:27:13 There are silent films also where, but they had to have an orchestra right in there.
0:27:15 So sound has always been such a big part of it.
0:27:20 But sound is something that is most enjoyed as a group setting.
0:27:24 Now everything is going to individual entertainment where every single person, I have six kids,
0:27:25 by the way.
0:27:26 Oh, wow.
0:27:29 When I grew up, and it was movie night, we all sat together around the one tiny TV.
0:27:31 Like that was the whole family.
0:27:33 Now it’s like, let’s movie night, everybody’s just like, well, I’m watching this series and
0:27:34 I’m watching that series.
0:27:35 I’m on a phone.
0:27:36 I’m on my iPad.
0:27:37 We’re on the TV.
0:27:40 It’s like an individual experience.
0:27:43 And just like at work, you’re not going to get a group of coworkers to sit around and
0:27:45 watch a program.
0:27:49 Everybody’s like at the cubicle, in the bathroom, in the hall, you know, on there getting a
0:27:50 cup of coffee.
0:27:52 It’s an individual experience.
0:27:55 And as an individual experience, sound is becoming less and less prominent.
0:27:59 Now I know a podcast experience is completely different and we’re not, that’s a completely
0:28:00 different category.
0:28:05 But when it comes to the decoupling of the visual experience and the audio experience,
0:28:09 the main reason is because it’s becoming an individual experience where sound radiates
0:28:14 in all directions, whereas light can be directed just toward your eyes.
0:28:15 Yeah.
0:28:18 And so I think the moral of the story is that, especially on a platform like LinkedIn, I
0:28:21 don’t know if Instagram is necessarily the same.
0:28:25 You’ve got to make sure that your videos are engaging with and without the sound on.
0:28:28 It’s got to make sense with captions, whatever it is.
0:28:29 Very true.
0:28:32 You finish the edit, then watch it back without sound.
0:28:35 And if it’s not fun, then fix it.
0:28:36 That’s the quick hack around that.
0:28:38 If you’re not enjoying it without sound, then fix it.
0:28:39 Totally.
0:28:40 And that’s such a big hack.
0:28:41 Okay.
0:28:42 You already told me about the timing of videos.
0:28:47 I think it’s a good time to transition into your seven figure video marketing funnel.
0:28:49 So first of all, define video marketing funnel.
0:28:50 What does that even mean?
0:28:53 So a lot of people have looked at courses, right?
0:28:57 Like somebody teaches you, here’s how to make money and here’s how to get clients.
0:29:00 And I’ve gone through a lot of them myself and almost all the time, there’s going to
0:29:04 be some form of like, okay, you got excited to click funnels or high level or, you know,
0:29:06 whatever other platform there is.
0:29:08 And there are a lot of great ones out there.
0:29:13 And I’ve surveyed a whole bunch of people who actually went through courses.
0:29:16 And one of the frustrations is that every course or coaching program tells them they
0:29:21 got to sign up to this 300 to 500 or they’re buying thousands of dollars of SaaS products.
0:29:26 And I thought, what if I run an experiment on myself where all we’re doing is using free
0:29:32 tools, social media, the phone in your pocket and just a payment system, Stripe or PayPal
0:29:33 or something.
0:29:36 Can I actually convert leads and sales with that?
0:29:39 And I did an experiment and that was the premise of the book.
0:29:44 I scale something to over seven figures where all I did was shoot videos on social media,
0:29:49 engaged with my audience through the videos, directed people to a payment page and then
0:29:52 actually started coaching them on zoom.
0:29:56 And this is something that a lot of people don’t realize that like, if you don’t get
0:30:00 that messaging right, if you don’t understand how to connect with the audience, forget these
0:30:03 complicated funnels and tripwires and automations and SAPs.
0:30:07 That comes later because what you’re doing is you’re taking something that works and
0:30:11 interaction with your audience, something that works, that turns to money and systematizing
0:30:12 it.
0:30:16 But a lot of people go and create the system first and then try to connect with their audience.
0:30:20 And then they realize, wait, we built this domino tower in the wrong direction.
0:30:21 It’s a sad story I’ve seen over and over.
0:30:25 So that’s the concept is use what you have.
0:30:29 Don’t get into the tech and the craziness unless this is your third or fourth or fifth
0:30:31 time around then and go for it because you’ve done this.
0:30:36 If it’s your first time around, use your phone, use free social media, get clients.
0:30:41 And unless those three tick boxes are marked, then don’t go and buy fancy software.
0:30:42 Yeah, I love this approach.
0:30:43 I give the same advice.
0:30:48 I see a lot of people who are creating products and they don’t even know if people want these
0:30:52 products and they go down this whole rabbit hole, investing all this money, and then they
0:30:53 have no demand.
0:30:54 Right?
0:30:55 So that’s a problem.
0:30:59 I just actually interviewed the president of Shopify and we were talking about how things
0:31:04 are changing now where creators are sort of flipping the script on how businesses are
0:31:05 made.
0:31:09 They’re building an audience first, figuring out what they want, and then selling to them
0:31:11 rather than building something and then finding the audience.
0:31:12 Right?
0:31:16 So I feel like this really fits nicely with what you’re teaching.
0:31:21 And just to clarify, so you’re not suggesting that these videos are paid ads against them,
0:31:22 you’re just saying organically.
0:31:23 Organically, yes.
0:31:28 Now, when it comes to paid ads, here’s how I feel about it and this is what I do with
0:31:29 my clients.
0:31:33 And by the way, I have turned away a lot of clients or potential clients who said, “Hey,
0:31:34 I’ve got this stack of cash.
0:31:36 Could you build this thing for me?”
0:31:37 And I say, “Well, what have you sold so far?”
0:31:38 And they said, “Nothing.
0:31:39 It’s brand new.”
0:31:40 I said, “What have you done in the past?”
0:31:41 And they say, “Nothing.”
0:31:44 I said, “I think you’re too early because I don’t want to have a one-year relationship
0:31:48 with a client and then not get them results because I don’t have anything to build on
0:31:49 with them.”
0:31:51 So, you know, they say, “Well, you’re the expert.
0:31:55 I’m like an expert at blowing up what’s working, not at inventing something from scratch
0:31:56 for you.”
0:31:58 Yeah, you need product market fits, sir.
0:31:59 Exactly.
0:32:01 But let’s get back to the thing about ads.
0:32:02 Here’s what we do.
0:32:04 You’ve got a lot of videos that have gotten hundreds of thousands of views.
0:32:06 I feel that I’ve gotten millions.
0:32:12 And those videos have been tested organically and they’ve been proven to convert better
0:32:13 than anything else.
0:32:17 So what I tell my clients and what we do is we just push them out organically on social
0:32:18 media.
0:32:23 We come back a month later, see what the highest performers are, and then turn those into ads.
0:32:29 We don’t invent an ad from scratch because we want the most return on our ad spend.
0:32:32 So you’re going to get the most reach with the videos that do well organically.
0:32:36 So we go organic first, then convert them to ads, and it’s that simple.
0:32:37 That makes so much sense.
0:32:40 So put the money behind the things that get the high engagement because you know they work.
0:32:42 That have already been proven to work.
0:32:43 Yeah.
0:32:44 That makes a lot of sense.
0:32:45 Okay.
0:32:48 So let’s get into how we create this video funnel.
0:32:51 First step is coming up with a hockey puck title.
0:32:56 So what are hockey puck titles and why do we need to actually plan our content around
0:32:59 a title rather than do it the opposite way?
0:33:01 Really good question.
0:33:04 Hockey puck title, when I was a kid, I was really into hockey, ice hockey.
0:33:07 And Wayne Gretzky said that famous quote, “I don’t go to where the puck is.
0:33:09 I go to where it’s going to be.”
0:33:13 And when it comes to the title, it’s no longer thinking about like, “I’m going to create
0:33:16 some content and then figure out how to get people there.”
0:33:19 It says like, “No, I’m going to figure out how to get people’s attention, and then I’ll
0:33:20 put a tail end on it.”
0:33:23 And for me, the tail end is really the content.
0:33:26 So hockey puck title is about composing great titles.
0:33:30 It’s about researching and figuring out what words are going to rank, what kind of triggers
0:33:31 your audience.
0:33:34 When I say trigger, I don’t mean that in a negative way, but what’s going to get them
0:33:36 engaged psychologically.
0:33:38 And once you have a list of titles, you can talk to that.
0:33:43 For example, Hala, if I asked you, if there’s a title that says the two biggest mistakes
0:33:49 that first-time podcasters make that’s costing them thousands, I bet you could riff on that
0:33:54 for five minutes or an hour straight if you wanted to because that’s your expertise.
0:33:58 So we go into what’s people’s expertise, and then we make the eye-catching titles that
0:34:02 they can talk, speak to, or fill the space on.
0:34:03 Yeah.
0:34:06 And so this is relevant to YouTube, like you said.
0:34:09 It’d also be relevant for live streams, LinkedIn, live streams of titles.
0:34:13 Now Instagram, TikTok, you don’t really have titles.
0:34:16 So instead of a title, you just use that as your opening statement.
0:34:20 And if that doesn’t get people’s attention, then you’re doing something wrong.
0:34:24 So the title can be the opening statement, which other people would call the hook.
0:34:28 The actual visual title, it can be in the thumbnail, but just think of it as the first
0:34:31 information that hits your viewer.
0:34:32 Yeah.
0:34:36 And that example that you gave in that hook, you did some things that I know.
0:34:37 I noticed, right?
0:34:38 I’m a marketer too.
0:34:41 So use the superlative, the best, the worst.
0:34:42 Use numbers.
0:34:45 For some reason, people love numbers and hooks.
0:34:46 And you made it relevant to me.
0:34:50 It was about podcasters, and you even give monetary value, which also will pique people’s
0:34:51 interest.
0:34:53 The more numbers you can stuff in a hook, the better.
0:34:57 So let’s move on to Hilda, which is your framework for building a video.
0:34:59 What else do we need to know about hooks?
0:35:02 Let me tell you one real quick thing though about the title.
0:35:03 Yeah.
0:35:04 It’s the shortcut.
0:35:07 The left brain, right brain theory, everybody’s got their opinions on that.
0:35:12 But I’ll tell you what has effectively worked is you want to engage both sides.
0:35:13 You want big numbers.
0:35:18 And for some reason, even if it’s zero with .20 zeros, that’s a big number.
0:35:20 Psychological is going to look big, right?
0:35:22 And you want an emotional word.
0:35:27 And if you put an emotional, expressive word and a big number together, then you got to
0:35:29 wrap the context around that.
0:35:31 So I try to think of that first.
0:35:35 When you’re hitting the left brain, right brain, and whether the person is leading one
0:35:39 way or the other, what mood they are in that time of the day, hopefully it’s going to be
0:35:41 the biggest dragnet to get the most attention to your content.
0:35:45 Give us an example of doing that strategy.
0:35:48 Emotional word might be something like I quit, right?
0:35:49 That’s an emotional, like a statement, right?
0:35:54 And then a big number would be something, you give me a number and I’ll make up something
0:35:55 to go with that.
0:35:56 10 billion.
0:35:57 10 billion.
0:35:58 Okay.
0:36:01 So I say my path from zero to 10 billion dollars, I quit.
0:36:04 I’m just like, what the heck does that mean?
0:36:05 Now you’re laughing.
0:36:06 You might actually click that, right?
0:36:07 Yeah.
0:36:11 Now it’s got to be contextual to who you are as a person.
0:36:13 Don’t make up stuff that has nothing to do with you.
0:36:18 And if it was for me, 10 billion, I would, oh, I might like pick up a camera and say 10
0:36:20 billion pixels, I quit.
0:36:24 Like I might make some content on like, where are we going to go as far as, you know, like
0:36:27 the resolution and it doesn’t really matter at this point.
0:36:29 That could be something you talk about.
0:36:32 We’ll be right back after a quick break from our sponsors.
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0:41:31 So for hooks, lately I’ve been using chatGBT for anything that I have to come up with some
0:41:32 sort of title.
0:41:35 And like say this in 10 different ways, right?
0:41:37 Have you been using chatGBT for that kind of thing?
0:41:42 We have this one-on-one coaching with our clients because a lot of agencies, they actually
0:41:43 provide all the tools.
0:41:45 They say just send us the video and we’ll do everything else for you.
0:41:46 Send us the podcasts.
0:41:47 We’ll do everything.
0:41:48 Or we’ll give you all the gear.
0:41:53 The gap in the market is actually someone to show up and live direct and coach people.
0:41:56 A lot of people, they don’t create it because they don’t have the time, their schedule’s
0:42:01 too full or they get set up and then their hour turns into 15 minutes because of all the
0:42:03 other stuff they have to take care of.
0:42:04 But the accountability.
0:42:09 So our coaches actually now using some AI, using their own experience as marketers will
0:42:12 create all of the content plans and that’s the hook.
0:42:16 Whether it’s a question yes and that they can answer, whether it’s finish the sentence,
0:42:21 whether it’s a framework, I have a few frameworks like what I just showed you, the number and
0:42:25 the emotional word, there’s 100 others, but we’ll get them all planned out.
0:42:28 And then we’ll have a conversation for an hour and shoot anywhere from 10 to 30 videos
0:42:29 within that hour.
0:42:30 And that’s the short form content.
0:42:34 So the hooks nowadays using chat GPT does help us get there faster.
0:42:36 So we’re no longer starting from zero.
0:42:40 We’re starting from maybe 60 or 70 and then our coaches will finish the rest.
0:42:41 Yeah.
0:42:42 I love that.
0:42:44 So let’s talk about the acronym Hilda.
0:42:45 So this is how you break down your video steps.
0:42:50 We already covered hooks and I’m sure in your book you probably have like you said so many
0:42:52 different formulas for hooks.
0:42:54 I’ll run you through this as quickly as I can.
0:42:55 Okay.
0:42:56 Yeah.
0:42:57 So medium format content, this works really well.
0:43:01 Medium format is anywhere from 10 to 12 minutes and that’s my definition.
0:43:05 Start with a hook, introduce yourself, lead their anticipation into something you’re going
0:43:09 to deliver, and then finally ask them to do something at the end.
0:43:12 Hilda, hook, intro, lead, deliver, ask hook.
0:43:15 We explained that a bit earlier, but you’ve got about, for the time I wrote the book,
0:43:20 I think it was about seven seconds now, especially in the short form videos that are less than
0:43:21 a minute.
0:43:22 You got about three seconds.
0:43:25 And I can show you the numbers behind that, the data we have based that on.
0:43:26 Introduce yourself.
0:43:30 Now it’s not as necessary as it used to be, but if you must, if you feel like you must
0:43:33 say, “Hey, my name is Ken Okazaki and I’m blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.”
0:43:37 Always put that after the fact that they’re bought into what you’re about to say.
0:43:40 But the truth is nowadays, if they want to know who you are, they’ll just tap your little
0:43:43 profile, you know, face, and they could see that.
0:43:47 If you’re going to say it, keep it short, first name, we help what you do five seconds
0:43:48 or less.
0:43:50 And that sounds cruel, but it’s real.
0:43:54 The longer you talk about yourself, I’m sure you’ve looked at those engagement graphs
0:43:55 on YouTube, right?
0:43:58 That’s where people drop off is when you’re talking about yourself.
0:43:59 But some people have got it.
0:44:01 So I say, if you must, make sure you hook them in, right?
0:44:02 Lead.
0:44:03 This is where you start telling a story.
0:44:05 This is where you start giving context.
0:44:08 Like I read this newspaper article the other day and it got me thinking about this.
0:44:12 I was talking to my friend or the way I discovered this, the importance of what I’m about to
0:44:13 share.
0:44:18 You’re just setting up the big reveal and that’s what you’re going to deliver next.
0:44:21 So this is where you actually spend the most time because the moment you release the tension
0:44:24 when you deliver something and release the dopamine.
0:44:26 So D can also be for dopamine.
0:44:28 That’s when people feel satisfied, satiate.
0:44:31 And you got to build this tension, release it.
0:44:35 It’s a classic Frank Capola strategy and video directing.
0:44:40 And then at the end, and this is a, there was a marriage counselor who was asked by this
0:44:44 woman, just like every time I asked my husband anything, he always says, no, I want to buy
0:44:45 a dress.
0:44:46 No, I want to go on vacation.
0:44:47 No, I want to buy this vacuum cleaner.
0:44:48 No.
0:44:49 And he says, well, here’s what you got to do.
0:44:55 You got to one day light some candles, cook them an amazing meal, put on your, your sexiest
0:44:57 negligee, give a mind blowing sex.
0:44:59 And then afterwards ask him, she goes, what?
0:45:01 He goes, just try it.
0:45:02 Did it absolutely work.
0:45:06 I’m like, and then she goes back and says, why did that work?
0:45:08 He goes, he’s got so much dopamine running through his brain.
0:45:10 It’s so easy to get a yes.
0:45:14 So I thought, well, if we get that level of dopamine, and I’m not sure if we can match
0:45:19 what she did for her husband, but we want to get some dopamine going where they feel
0:45:24 like they had an aha moment, right then is when you want to flip it and say, hey, would
0:45:28 you please join my group or download this or click a certain link?
0:45:30 And it’s the timing that’s so important.
0:45:31 This is so interesting.
0:45:34 So I want to, I want to ask some probing questions on each part.
0:45:37 So for the intro, based on what you said, it sounds like if it’s a cold audience, you
0:45:42 probably should, if it’s paid cold, probably should introduce yourself to show some sort
0:45:43 of social proof, right?
0:45:48 And if it’s warm or like on your own social media, maybe don’t do that because mostly
0:45:53 it’s going to be your followers seeing it unless it goes viral and then they’ll click
0:45:54 on your profile if they want to learn more.
0:45:56 Does that sound right?
0:45:59 It’s really hard for me to cover every situation because right now, like for example, I’m a
0:46:02 guest on your podcast, there’s YouTube videos, there’s super short form.
0:46:04 But generally, yes, I think that’s a good guideline.
0:46:05 Okay, cool.
0:46:09 Something that I thought was interesting is that you suggested don’t use your last name
0:46:11 from my understanding.
0:46:13 Why just first name in the intros?
0:46:15 You want people to feel friendly toward you.
0:46:19 And like, when I speak to you, I’ll probably just say Hala, you know, and you might say
0:46:20 Ken.
0:46:23 And while we’re having this conversation, we’re not consistently using full names because
0:46:25 we feel comfortable with each other.
0:46:30 And what we’re doing is assuming rapport, we’re not assuming formality.
0:46:34 And when you assume rapport, the other person’s more likely to get on board and assume report
0:46:35 back with you.
0:46:39 And then later on, they might feel more open to sending you a DM and say, “Hey, I checked
0:46:40 out your video.
0:46:41 Would love to learn more.”
0:46:45 It’s more likely to happen because they feel more rapport because that’s how you started
0:46:46 the conversation with them.
0:46:48 Oh, that’s so interesting.
0:46:51 I always say good branding is making people feel like you’re an old friend.
0:46:53 So that makes a lot of sense to me.
0:46:55 I think we’re on the same page.
0:46:56 Yeah.
0:47:02 Okay, so let’s talk about this step in terms of leading their anticipation.
0:47:03 This is where a lot of people get stuck.
0:47:05 Why do people get stuck in this part?
0:47:09 And can you give us some real tangible examples of how you can do this?
0:47:13 This part is more art than science because there are a million ways we can do it.
0:47:15 So let’s give a live example.
0:47:19 Let’s say the thing I want to teach someone is, well, with the Go-Box Studio, what you
0:47:24 have, there’s this cool feature where you can draw right over the video screen.
0:47:29 And a lot of people first saw that when I actually invented that process, couldn’t get
0:47:30 a patent too bad.
0:47:33 But there’s tons of people were asking me, “How do you do that?”
0:47:38 So I made a quick video about it and then leading up to showing the exact steps one,
0:47:43 two, and three, I talked about all the frustrations of the processes I tried.
0:47:46 I was like, “I really wanted to get this effect while I was drawing on the screen.”
0:47:50 So one was I actually bought this piece of glass and I had it lit like a lightboard,
0:47:53 but it was big and clunky and I couldn’t take it anywhere with me.
0:47:55 And it took a lot of time to build.
0:47:59 And then I tried this and I tell them about all the failures and people are bought into
0:48:00 this journey.
0:48:02 And then when I teach them how to do it, they’re just like, “Oh my God, compared to all the
0:48:05 effort that you went through, thank you so much for this cool hack.”
0:48:10 They gave more weight and gravitas and more value to what I actually taught them because
0:48:13 I gave them a bit of the journey to how we got there.
0:48:17 So that could be like a little bit of an origin story on something.
0:48:18 That’s one way.
0:48:24 One of the favorite ways that I see work effectively is how, because most of my clients are business
0:48:30 coaches, is they tell a story of the before and after of the transformation their client
0:48:34 had and then explain the process for how they do it.
0:48:38 You might say something, I worked with this man, he’s 55 years old, he’s got three beautiful
0:48:44 kids and a wife, but the wife was constantly stressed because he was never home and the
0:48:47 kids were not, he wasn’t going to see the kids grow up.
0:48:49 He was making good money, but his health was deteriorating.
0:48:53 He barely saw his wife and he never got to keep his promises for vacations.
0:48:57 He came to me saying, “I got to get this fixed, but I don’t want to sacrifice my income.”
0:49:01 So what I did is, and he teaches that one, two, three steps, now people are bought into
0:49:05 the steps because they might be that 50-year-old person who has their life out of balance and
0:49:06 they have money, but no time.
0:49:13 So those are some examples of how can you give context, tell a story, or paint a picture
0:49:15 that sets up what you’re about to share.
0:49:17 This is so good, Ken.
0:49:18 You are so brilliant.
0:49:22 I’ve had video marketers on the podcast before, but by far I feel like you are giving the
0:49:23 best advice.
0:49:25 Thank you.
0:49:26 You really know your stuff.
0:49:27 You really, really know your stuff.
0:49:30 So let’s talk about delivering value.
0:49:34 One thing that I just want to stress to my listeners is, from my understanding, what
0:49:38 you say in your hook is the value that you’re promising, right?
0:49:41 So you need to make sure you deliver on your hook.
0:49:45 Otherwise, people are going to leave your video and be like, “I watched this for no
0:49:46 reason.”
0:49:47 Clickbait, right?
0:49:48 That’s what clickbait is.
0:49:49 It is.
0:49:54 So talk to us about how we can frame up delivering our value and what we need to know about that.
0:49:55 Yeah.
0:49:56 Let me paint a quick picture for you.
0:49:58 Say you’re a drug dealer.
0:50:01 And social media, by the way, I see the closest analogy.
0:50:05 It’s like a farm, and you got to plow the land on the farm.
0:50:09 And the person who owns the farm is Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube.
0:50:12 They own the farm and you are leasing a plot.
0:50:17 Now what’s going on is when you create content, then the product is your content.
0:50:19 And they use that and they sell it.
0:50:24 The only thing on social media, the university across all platforms that is a universal currency
0:50:25 is time.
0:50:27 People buy time.
0:50:29 The advertisers buy it from the farmer.
0:50:34 And you’re just the person who’s volunteering to create, to work their farm for them, which
0:50:37 is amazing that they convinced us to do this.
0:50:42 So now that we’ve got this analogy where time is a monetizable product, it actually is money.
0:50:46 It’s bought and sold every single day, millions of times, billions of dollars.
0:50:51 And when you understand this, then what you got to think is like, well, if I am buying
0:50:54 and selling time, and that’s the currency of social media, when someone watches a video,
0:50:59 let’s say they spend three minutes, they pay you three units of time.
0:51:00 And what are you getting in return?
0:51:04 What you got to give them is a dopamine hit, because otherwise they will not get addicted.
0:51:05 They won’t come back.
0:51:08 They won’t feel like they got their money’s worth.
0:51:12 So if you say, hey, get over here, you know, spend three minutes with me and I’m going
0:51:16 to give you a dopamine hit, they come, they pay their three minutes and you don’t give
0:51:17 it.
0:51:18 Two things are going to happen.
0:51:20 Number one, they’re going to feel like, hey, you are scumbag.
0:51:24 And number two, I’m never coming back and I might even tell people to avoid you.
0:51:28 And that’s what happens when the promise doesn’t meet the delivery.
0:51:31 So what you want to do is give them a dopamine hit.
0:51:34 And I think another way to say this is aha moment.
0:51:37 If you could get people like right now, I see you’re nodding.
0:51:38 I love that.
0:51:40 When I see people nodding, I’m like, that’s, we’re on the same page.
0:51:42 They’re having an aha moment here.
0:51:44 And that transaction was successful.
0:51:45 Very likely they’ll come back.
0:51:48 So you just got to deliver what you say you’re going to deliver.
0:51:53 If you say I’m going to teach you the most mind blowing strategy to use chat GPT that
0:51:56 will earn me $12,000 in the next 30 days.
0:51:58 And then you actually show screenshots and demonstrate it.
0:51:59 That is a good fit.
0:52:03 But if you say it and then give some general advice without showing anything that’s actually
0:52:08 believable, not a high chance that people will continue coming back, they’ll be disappointed.
0:52:11 That’s the kind of the match you’re looking for there.
0:52:12 Yeah.
0:52:16 So the dopamine is actually what gets people coming back and addicted to our videos and
0:52:17 gets you super fans.
0:52:18 Okay.
0:52:21 So the last step is asking for the right thing.
0:52:24 How do we know what that right thing is?
0:52:29 A lot of people spend a lot of time talking about how, you know, really ballooning up
0:52:31 there, whatever their free thing is.
0:52:35 And a lot of times it’s, you know, it’s a PDF, maybe it’s a book or something, right?
0:52:38 All I say is there’s three columns.
0:52:40 There’s who, what, how.
0:52:45 And it’s just like, hey, if you’re a business coach and you’re looking to do a what, which
0:52:53 is use video more effectively in your business and you want the X thing cheat sheet or free
0:52:56 download or the 30 minute course on something.
0:53:00 And then I would usually, instead of saying click below for the link, because nowadays
0:53:06 people don’t like clicking link, I’d say comment X below or share this with a friend.
0:53:09 These are things that people are more likely to do.
0:53:13 And besides clicking a link, clicking links is, I don’t know, I think everybody has a
0:53:18 little bit of a phobia that they’re going to get shot down a rabbit hole or something.
0:53:23 So I usually get them to comment something that way they’re initiating their reach out
0:53:24 to me.
0:53:28 I use that comment as a starting point for what we call the smooth segue, where we segue
0:53:31 people from viewing to engaging.
0:53:35 And then you’ll retarget them in the DMs or something like that sounds like I have a conversation
0:53:38 with them, you know, I just chat and say, Hey, thanks for the comment.
0:53:40 I think you’re looking for X resource.
0:53:41 Is that right?
0:53:42 And they say yes.
0:53:43 I send it to them.
0:53:47 Then I’ll probe a little bit into whether I can help them with my business.
0:53:51 We’ll be right back after a quick break from our sponsors.
0:53:52 Got it.
0:54:00 Okay, so moving along your framework, the next piece is the missing link.
0:54:04 So in your book, you write you’ve got to offer something that’s priceless to your viewer,
0:54:05 free for you to give.
0:54:08 That is the missing link between where they are.
0:54:10 So tell us more about this concept.
0:54:12 Yeah, between where they are and where they want to be.
0:54:19 So a lot of times, like if I said to you all of that, you can absolutely earn enough money
0:54:22 to have a 500 foot yacht.
0:54:26 Now you might get a picture of yourself cruising this yacht, you know, hanging out with Elon
0:54:27 Musk and everything.
0:54:31 And I’m exaggerating here for demonstration purposes.
0:54:34 But then a lot of people will start dreaming about that.
0:54:38 But it’s really hard for people to actually identify what are the steps to get there.
0:54:42 And then I might say, but the thing you’re missing is the right connections to the people
0:54:46 who can make that happen, the vehicle, which is going to be your business.
0:54:50 And I’m not sure what I’m making stuff up here, I’m going a little bit farfetched here,
0:54:55 but you paint the picture of what’s possible and then remind them of where they’re at and
0:54:58 then talk about the few steps that are in between.
0:55:02 Now that the thing they never knew they ever always needed can be, for example, a software
0:55:03 tool.
0:55:07 It can be a free training or something that you can give infinitely for free without cost
0:55:08 to give money.
0:55:09 And that’s what’s important.
0:55:14 Otherwise, it’s very hard to manage a free marketing with physical products.
0:55:16 And there are people who have figured that out.
0:55:21 So an example I gave before was I give them new information.
0:55:23 And this is back when this is before TikTok really blew up.
0:55:24 I wrote this book.
0:55:28 So just for context, I used to say, with the toilet strategy, I said, you know what, when
0:55:32 60 to 70% of people are sitting on the toilet when they watch video number one, yes, number
0:55:33 two.
0:55:36 And I found that if you have captions on the video, then it’s going to make the engagement
0:55:38 go much higher.
0:55:39 And I give some stats around that.
0:55:43 And number three, and you want to put out these videos every single day in order to
0:55:45 build on that engagement.
0:55:49 Now they’re everybody’s thinking, I need to create videos with titles on top, captions,
0:55:51 and I need to make them every day.
0:55:54 And then I say, I’ve made a free tutorial that will show you how to use some free tools
0:55:58 and shoot this on your phone and get it done in under three minutes for one minute video.
0:55:59 Would you like it right now?
0:56:02 So I gave them information about where they want to be.
0:56:06 And then they get excited, but they don’t realize that there’s a free tool that’s going
0:56:07 to help them do it.
0:56:10 Now everybody wants to download this tool, and I give it to them for free.
0:56:13 Now you could just go to TikTok and that’ll do it for you pretty much.
0:56:18 But that’s an example of something that worked pretty well, and give them the information
0:56:22 and then reveal that there’s a gap and then offered it to them for free.
0:56:28 So if I was embarking on a video market strategy, I think I would start to think about all of
0:56:34 my customer pain points and then start to think of many free solutions that I could create.
0:56:39 I think you call them micro solutions that I could create for free, or it might cost
0:56:42 me a little money, but I could be able to give it away for free.
0:56:46 And then you would want to then upsell them to some higher ticket offer once they’re hooked
0:56:48 in and they got some value from you.
0:56:49 Exactly.
0:56:52 Or you just nurture them in your emails until at some point when they’re ready, they’ll
0:56:53 come to you.
0:56:56 Just keep writing them in your example.
0:57:01 What I would do is I would look for research data, like specific data that’s a little bit
0:57:04 obscure, but that you can apply to what you do.
0:57:08 You could say something like, did you know that videos that have this certain type of
0:57:11 animation in the beginning get higher conversions than others?
0:57:15 Or did you know that there’s four words I use toward the end of all of my call to actions
0:57:17 that makes the ads convert better?
0:57:18 I’m not sure what that’s going to be.
0:57:21 Did you know that when I wear the certain combination of colors, you know, or have this
0:57:25 kind of guess, or there’s a question I ask whenever I get stuck in a podcast that will
0:57:29 get the show back on track, then everybody’s just like, what is that question?
0:57:33 And you say, just DM me question down below, or comment question down below and I’ll send
0:57:38 you the free three step PDF for all the questions I ask to keep my podcast interviews on track.
0:57:39 People will go for that.
0:57:40 They will eat it up.
0:57:41 I love that.
0:57:45 And I love that you’re saying, don’t put a link because I’m doing this kind of stuff
0:57:48 all the time and I find the same thing.
0:57:52 When you just give somebody an action like comment, it’s less salesy, I guess, and people
0:57:54 get scared of the sales language.
0:57:58 Here’s what’s important is you give them a specific word to comment.
0:58:02 And if you say, you know, like if it’s a three step process, you say comment three below.
0:58:05 If it’s a conversion process, say comment, conversion below.
0:58:08 Now it’s meaningful and it’s intentional.
0:58:14 And when you DM them, then there’s no question about why they commented something like you
0:58:15 could jump right into that conversation.
0:58:19 Hey, great, it looks like you’re trying to come raise conversions and you’re looking
0:58:20 for my tool.
0:58:21 Is that right?
0:58:22 Yes.
0:58:23 Great.
0:58:24 Here it is for free.
0:58:25 And then you could start probing a bit.
0:58:26 Okay.
0:58:27 So let’s talk about smooth segues.
0:58:29 This is the last part of your funnel.
0:58:32 What do we need to know about this part of the process?
0:58:37 This is where you take people from passively viewing to actively engaging.
0:58:42 And we’re segueing from someone doom-scrolling, randomly fighting your video.
0:58:47 And just like we described earlier, they’re going to engage with you, but the conversation
0:58:49 has what I call three stoplights, right?
0:58:50 Three hills, right?
0:58:53 The first one is permission to share.
0:58:57 So first they’re going to have asked for something and you’re going to say, hey, confirm that
0:58:58 they actually want it.
0:59:01 Some people just randomly comment stuff and they’re not really engaging, right?
0:59:04 And you don’t go further until they say, yes, I want it.
0:59:05 Say, great, you give it to them.
0:59:08 Now it’s a bit of an uphill to get there.
0:59:10 Like you’re making a bit of effort.
0:59:13 Like, hey, Hala, thanks so much for the comment on the video.
0:59:14 Get them to respond.
0:59:15 Right?
0:59:16 If they don’t respond, then it’s a dead conversation.
0:59:18 I saw you commented three.
0:59:21 I think you want my three step resources to achieve play.
0:59:22 Is that right?
0:59:23 Yes.
0:59:24 So you take number one.
0:59:30 Number two is you want to share some examples of other people who are in the same boat as
0:59:31 a person you’re having a conversation with.
0:59:33 Hey, I worked with so-and-so and I had these kind of results.
0:59:36 Would you like to see a case study on that?
0:59:39 Now they’re starting to buy into the vision of what’s possible for them, but you’re doing
0:59:40 it indirectly with someone else.
0:59:42 If they say, yes, you send them some information.
0:59:48 And the third one is really getting permission to actually send them a way to have what I
0:59:52 want to conversation with if that is what your sales process is.
0:59:53 And that might be with your sales team.
0:59:56 It might be with somebody else who’s prospecting.
1:00:01 But you got to have a conversation flow that follows these three frameworks, because if
1:00:04 you don’t get permission at these three steps, a lot of people skip ahead and they, you know,
1:00:11 you’ve seen these DM pitches and man, that just nothing clogs up my, I call it constipation.
1:00:15 What you’re doing is clogging up their system with big chunks of lumpy text and it’s like,
1:00:16 come on.
1:00:17 And it’s copy pasted.
1:00:19 It’s not at all authentic.
1:00:23 So you want to break it up into small bits, have conversations, make sure that they’re
1:00:28 engaging back and then just remember what those three checkpoints are and you’re good
1:00:29 to go.
1:00:30 This is such great advice.
1:00:35 I’m actually really excited to dig deeper into your work and see what I can leverage
1:00:37 for my business.
1:00:41 So I know that we discussed different iPhone hacks and that’s great for people who are
1:00:45 on a budget, but in terms of people who have more budgets to spend and really want to level
1:00:48 up, they’re on the go video marketing.
1:00:52 I know you have go box studio, I just want to share a story in terms of how I found out
1:00:53 about it.
1:01:00 I was at a podcast conference and I see this like really cool suitcase looking thing with
1:01:03 two lights and a fancy camera.
1:01:07 And one of my friends was actually manning the booth and he helped build the studio.
1:01:11 And I walk up to him, his name’s Jeanade and I’m like, what is this?
1:01:17 This is the solution that I’ve been looking for as an influencer because historically to
1:01:22 record my podcast, if I was going to conferences and things like this, it was like lugging
1:01:28 around two mics, lights, stands for my mics, a computer.
1:01:33 It was just too much work and I would often avoid it, which meant that I would like have
1:01:37 breaks in my schedule and it would be really tough to travel as a podcaster and having a
1:01:38 number one show.
1:01:40 I can’t just like not put out an episode, right?
1:01:43 So I loved it and I was like, sign me up.
1:01:47 I want to be an ambassador, whatever I can do because I knew that this was a pain point
1:01:51 that a lot of people, especially business influencers, were probably experiencing.
1:01:56 So I’d love to understand the genesis of this and more about this product.
1:02:01 I’ve been creating digital media for my clients for several years since 2016.
1:02:06 And somebody who is in a lot of the same circles as me, he reached out to me.
1:02:10 His name is Alex Hormozzi and he said, can I hear you’re the guy who’s good at video?
1:02:14 And I said, yeah, I’ve heard that once or twice and he says, could you create something
1:02:16 for me where I can take my stuff on the go?
1:02:20 I’ve got a great studio set up at home, but I’m about to go on vacation, I need something
1:02:21 to take with me.
1:02:26 At first I said, no, he’s a very persuasive guy and that’s probably why he makes a hundred
1:02:28 million dollars.
1:02:34 And he got me to build him a prototype and I sent it over.
1:02:35 He loved it.
1:02:38 And this is about 18 months ago when he first started his YouTube channel.
1:02:42 I think it was already going, but not really as regularly as it is now.
1:02:43 He loved it.
1:02:44 He started using it.
1:02:48 He was shooting his YouTube videos with it and then he snapped a photo on Instagram and
1:02:51 he’s put it in his story and he got about 5,000 comments.
1:02:53 Most of them are saying, where can I buy one of these?
1:02:58 So he calls me up and he says, Ken, I think you should make a business out of this.
1:03:02 And at that point I had no intention of starting a hardware business, but he planted that seed
1:03:06 and then I started making more iterations on this, sending it to my clients.
1:03:09 The kind of people who are sending us videos and a lot of times the videos without due
1:03:14 respect were shit and we had to go and, you know, like get very creative about making
1:03:15 them look good.
1:03:20 But once we started sending these kits, they started sending us amazing 4k crisp video,
1:03:22 much like the quality you’re seeing with me right now.
1:03:23 So we just kept iterating.
1:03:28 Our clients gave us suggestions, ideas, requests, and we just kept adding or subtracting things
1:03:30 to make it what it is.
1:03:36 And in October, 2022, I’ve been working on this for almost a year and I had to decide
1:03:40 is this a hobby or is this business?
1:03:44 So I didn’t want to guess for the rest of my life if this was going to take off.
1:03:50 So I went and rented a sponsored booth at an event in San Diego, was targeted at agency
1:03:55 owners and our booth was completely packed the whole time.
1:03:57 Everybody around us was complaining that they had no foot traffic.
1:04:00 We had a crowd constantly.
1:04:06 We had sold, I think, 25 of these units and that’s like a quarter million dollars.
1:04:08 And I was like, okay, I think it’s a business.
1:04:12 So I went back and started restructuring things and thinking about how can I get this to more
1:04:14 people and help more people with this tool?
1:04:19 Yeah, it’s an amazing tool and I’m very excited to have my own Go-Box studio.
1:04:20 So thank you.
1:04:21 Okay.
1:04:27 So as we close out this interview, I thought it’d be really fun to do something quick fire.
1:04:31 So it turns out your video marketing funnel could be used as a diagnostic tool.
1:04:35 And so I’m going to list out some common problems that people face and you tell me where the
1:04:38 issue is in the funnel and what we can do about it.
1:04:39 Okay?
1:04:40 Oh boy.
1:04:41 You’re putting me on the spot.
1:04:42 Let’s see.
1:04:43 Let’s go for it.
1:04:44 Oh, you’re going to crush it.
1:04:45 Come on.
1:04:46 Views are low.
1:04:47 Well, that could be a whole number of things.
1:04:51 But the first thing I would look at is what’s the opening statement?
1:04:52 What’s going to get people in?
1:04:54 I’d look at the thumbnail, the hooks.
1:04:57 As a view, just three seconds counts as a view on most platforms.
1:05:00 So if they can’t keep them for three seconds, a lot of times it’s a title, it’s a thumbnail.
1:05:02 And that’s the first thing I’d go into tweaking.
1:05:07 So I would look historically at what did the best among your previous stuff and then look
1:05:11 at how can we use more of that and then expand on it.
1:05:12 Love it.
1:05:14 Retention is poor.
1:05:16 So that usually means that your hook sucks.
1:05:20 Like you didn’t promise them something later on to give them a reason to stay.
1:05:24 Watch Mr. Beast. He always talks about what is going to happen as a result of watching
1:05:27 his roughly 10-minute episodes.
1:05:31 So that’s pretty important is he set them up for a reward at the end, then they’ll stick
1:05:32 through.
1:05:33 Low engagements.
1:05:35 They don’t comment and like.
1:05:36 Yeah.
1:05:39 No compelling reason to engage.
1:05:41 Maybe you didn’t even tell them to.
1:05:43 So there’s two ways.
1:05:44 Outrageous content.
1:05:46 That’s humor or something shocking.
1:05:48 People love sharing that.
1:05:51 I don’t suggest doing that too much otherwise you could go down a rabbit hole there, a dark
1:05:55 rabbit hole, but just remind people why they should comment.
1:05:59 Hey, comment, agree down below if you think that this is something you agree with.
1:06:01 And if it’s something important you share, then they will.
1:06:03 No converting customers.
1:06:07 That’s your smooth segue, you know, like you got to take people from passive viewing
1:06:09 to active engagement.
1:06:12 And then that’s the segue point that would get people to convert.
1:06:13 Amazing.
1:06:16 Well, Ken, you dropped so many gems.
1:06:19 I think everybody’s going to have a page of notes after this interview.
1:06:21 Thank you so much for your time.
1:06:23 We asked two questions to all of our guests at the end of the show.
1:06:29 The first one is, what is one actionable thing our young and profitors can do today to become
1:06:31 more profiting tomorrow?
1:06:33 Pick up your phone, shoot a video, upload it.
1:06:38 Don’t even look at it because it’s the compounding effect of doing it daily.
1:06:39 That gets good.
1:06:41 I say it’s not quality or quantity.
1:06:43 It’s quantity that creates quality.
1:06:45 You put in the reps, you get good.
1:06:48 You get good at speaking by speaking, you get good at running by running, you get good
1:06:49 at video by doing video.
1:06:50 So that’s one.
1:06:51 There’s two.
1:06:56 I think the second thing is stop looking at your competition because everybody who’s
1:07:02 very successful, including you, Allah, didn’t start with where they’re at now.
1:07:04 They started with something else and they evolved to that.
1:07:09 And if you try to skip steps, your trip, I’ve seen it happen too many times, find your
1:07:14 own path, even though it may be a bit scary because there’s no blueprint.
1:07:17 But that’s the way every single person who’s doing it really well right now, they’ve done
1:07:18 it.
1:07:19 They found their own blueprint.
1:07:21 They created their own blueprint, found their own path.
1:07:24 So stop looking at the leaders and mimicking them.
1:07:25 Get inspired with them.
1:07:26 Don’t mimic them.
1:07:28 That’s great advice.
1:07:31 The last question is what is your secret to profiting in life?
1:07:34 And this can go beyond financial video.
1:07:36 It could just be anything.
1:07:39 I think you got to design your career around your non-negotiables.
1:07:43 I quit my seminar business because it wasn’t satisfying me.
1:07:47 So I decided on five non-negotiables and built my current agency around that.
1:07:49 Number one is I need to have cameras around me.
1:07:53 Number two, I wanted to have a very stable income.
1:07:55 So recurring revenue business.
1:07:57 Number three, I wanted to travel.
1:08:00 Number four, I wanted to continue hanging out with the caliber of speakers I had on my
1:08:02 stage by making them my clients.
1:08:07 And number five is I wanted the freedom to leave my family as much as I wanted.
1:08:11 So when I decided those, it was no longer what can I do that’s going to make money.
1:08:13 It’s like, what business can I invent?
1:08:16 That will satisfy these five non-negotiables.
1:08:19 So if you figure out your non-negotiables, design your business around those.
1:08:23 And then I think that you end up a lot happier in the long run.
1:08:24 That’s beautiful.
1:08:25 Thank you so much, Ken.
1:08:28 Where can our listeners find more about you and the things that you do?
1:08:31 I think the best place to find me on Facebook, Ken Okazaki.
1:08:35 But just look up at Ken Okazaki on any platform you’ll find me.
1:08:38 Or head on over to our website, 20xagency.com.
1:08:40 That’s where we do all the services for our clients.
1:08:44 If somebody wants to buy Go Box Studio, where can they go?
1:08:48 So we do have a special deal, which is only that you can only get with Hala.
1:08:49 Ooh.
1:08:52 Go to goboxstudio.com/yap.
1:08:56 And then you’ll see the special deal we created just for the listeners of this podcast.
1:08:57 Amazing.
1:08:59 And I’ll stick all those links in the show notes.
1:09:00 Thanks again.
1:09:01 Really appreciated having you on.
1:09:02 Amazing.
1:09:03 Thank you so much.
1:09:03 I enjoyed it.
1:09:04 Thanks.
1:09:05 Bye.
1:09:05 Bye.
1:09:15 [Music]
1:09:25 [BLANK_AUDIO]

0:00:05 Today’s episode is sponsored in part by Teachable, Fundrise, Mint Mobile, Working Genius, Indeed,
0:00:06 and Shopify.
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0:01:08 As always, you can find all of our incredible deals in the show notes.
0:01:12 You can use your body’s own regenerative abilities to turn back the clock.
0:01:16 It’s a concept called auto-juvenation, and there are five things really that if you
0:01:20 do really focus on that, you can look five to ten years younger.
0:01:22 Guess my age.
0:01:23 27?
0:01:24 Oh my gosh.
0:01:30 I feel like I have so much advantage in the business space because I look younger.
0:01:34 There are so many people who do find that when they look in the mirror and they feel better
0:01:37 about themselves, that that can really impact their job performance.
0:01:41 You are a huge TikTok star, so over 8 million followers.
0:01:45 How can we leverage social media without it being about what we look like?
0:01:46 What it comes down to is…
0:02:05 Young and Profiters, we have an amazing episode for you today.
0:02:06 It’s very unique.
0:02:10 We’re going to be talking about how we can be younger for life, how we can be young
0:02:13 and profiting forever.
0:02:17 And we’ve got the best guest to talk about it today, Dr. Anthony Yoon.
0:02:21 Dr. Anthony Yoon is a plastic surgeon, and he’s also a social media star.
0:02:25 He’s got over 10 million followers across all of his different platforms.
0:02:28 He’s got 8 million followers on TikTok alone.
0:02:33 So first, I’m going to pick his brain about how his personal brand really helped to expand
0:02:36 his business and create multiple revenue streams.
0:02:41 We’re going to learn about how he uses edutainment to attract new followers and how he expanded
0:02:46 his successful career as a doctor to now live a more fulfilling life for himself.
0:02:50 We’re also going to talk about how we can look younger from the inside out, the importance
0:02:56 of food and exercise, as well as the different topical treatments that we should be using
0:02:59 to look 5 to 10 years younger at any given time.
0:03:04 I can’t wait to dive into this topic because I personally have such a passion for skincare
0:03:05 and know a lot about it.
0:03:11 And Dr. Yoon does such a great job of giving really hard information in a fun and engaging
0:03:12 way.
0:03:13 So I think this is going to be a really enjoyable listen.
0:03:16 Without further ado, here’s my conversation with Dr. Yoon.
0:03:20 Anthony, welcome to Young and Profiting Podcast.
0:03:21 Thank you so much for having me, Hala.
0:03:23 I appreciate it.
0:03:26 I am so looking forward to this conversation.
0:03:28 I am a skincare fanatic.
0:03:30 So I love talking about skincare.
0:03:32 This podcast is Young and Profiting.
0:03:36 So we want to look as young as possible for as long as possible.
0:03:39 So you are the perfect guest to have on the show.
0:03:42 And so I really want to focus this episode on two main parts.
0:03:47 Number one is your career and your career journey as a holistic plastic surgeon, how
0:03:51 you got there, some of the lessons that you’ve learned along the way.
0:03:56 And then I want to talk about how we can look and feel our best, how we can be younger
0:03:57 for life.
0:03:58 Sounds great.
0:03:59 Okay.
0:04:02 So I loved learning how you first got interested in plastic surgery.
0:04:08 And I did find out that in your teenage years, you had a very personal experience with a major
0:04:10 plastic surgery makeover.
0:04:14 So tell us about what you were like in your teens and what that experience was like for
0:04:15 you.
0:04:16 Yeah, Hala.
0:04:17 So thank you.
0:04:19 Basically, I grew up in a small town in the middle of Michigan.
0:04:20 We’re the only Asian family.
0:04:22 So my parents immigrated from Korea.
0:04:23 My dad’s a physician.
0:04:26 He’s an obstetrician gynecologist.
0:04:30 And I developed and I think it was honestly a mutation because there’s nobody in my family
0:04:32 that’s ever had this before.
0:04:37 But when I got into high school, my jaw started growing and growing and growing and it wouldn’t
0:04:42 stop growing to the point where I graduated high school and my jaw stuck out so much that
0:04:46 I could stick my tongue through the gap between my bottom and my front teeth.
0:04:48 My jaw stuck out that far.
0:04:53 And so I ended up having orthognathic plastic reconstructive surgery where they broke my
0:04:55 jaw, set it back.
0:05:01 They wired it shut for six weeks and that profoundly changed how I looked.
0:05:03 And in the end, how I felt about myself.
0:05:09 And so that really was the starting point for me of my journey into realizing that making
0:05:15 changes to your appearance can really profoundly impact your self-esteem, your self-identity,
0:05:17 how you carry yourself.
0:05:21 And that set me on the path to going into the field of plastic surgery.
0:05:26 How do you feel that that surgery impacted your future career-wise?
0:05:30 Do you think you would be as successful as you are today had you not have gotten that
0:05:31 procedure?
0:05:35 No, because people would walk into my office, they would see me and go, “Well, if he didn’t
0:05:38 get anything done, why should I get something done?”
0:05:39 And they would leave.
0:05:41 It’s an unfortunate statement on society.
0:05:47 I mean, I joke about that, but there is truth to it in that how you look, especially as
0:05:52 a plastic surgeon, does make a difference in how your patients look at you.
0:05:58 And even if they decide to choose you as their doctor, that being said, being a male plastic
0:06:01 surgeon is very different than being a female plastic surgeon.
0:06:06 I go to my meetings and you see plastic surgeons who are in their 60s and 70s, they’ve had
0:06:08 male docs who’ve had nothing done.
0:06:10 They look kind of dumpy.
0:06:15 They may be wearing really baggy, loose clothing and then I’ve got tennis shoes on with suits.
0:06:21 And then you see their wives who sometimes are younger than them, who are very well made
0:06:22 up.
0:06:25 You see female plastic surgeons, they don’t show up looking like that.
0:06:31 There is definitely an unfortunate statement on society where men can let themselves go
0:06:37 to an extent and people overlook it in a very different way than if that happens to a woman.
0:06:38 Totally.
0:06:39 Yeah.
0:06:43 I mean, that’s a whole other conversation, but it’s so true.
0:06:47 It’s like women are judged so much harder, whereas men, you’re like, “Oh, he must be
0:06:50 really smart and I want this smart guy to do my surgery.
0:06:51 I don’t care what he looks like.”
0:06:52 Exactly.
0:06:56 You see some of the plastic surgeons I trained under and you just wonder, “Why don’t you
0:06:58 do some of your own medicine?”
0:07:02 Because man, but it’s just the way the world is right now.
0:07:03 Totally.
0:07:07 So for me, having that operation did really change how I looked at myself and so now I’ve
0:07:14 dedicated my life to helping people to feel good about themselves, but using invasive
0:07:17 procedures like that only as a last resort.
0:07:22 I can’t wait to pick your brain about holistic plastic surgery, what that all means.
0:07:24 But first, you are a huge TikTok star.
0:07:29 So over 8 million followers, you’ve got over a million followers on Instagram, we’ve done
0:07:31 such an incredible job.
0:07:35 At what point in your career where you’re like, “Okay, I’m going to just embrace social
0:07:37 media and make it a priority?”
0:07:40 My career has undergone a lot of different changes.
0:07:43 So when I first started my practice, I basically moved to Michigan.
0:07:46 I did a fellowship actually out in Beverly Hills, which is like an apprenticeship.
0:07:50 So I worked under one of the top plastic surgeons out there and he actually offered me a job
0:07:51 and said, “Hey, stay here.
0:07:52 We’re in Beverly Hills.
0:07:55 It’s one of the top practices here.
0:07:57 Join me and we’re going to take over the city.”
0:07:59 And honestly, it was quite enticing.
0:08:02 You look at it as such a great place to operate.
0:08:04 You got celebrities coming in all the time.
0:08:07 But the thing that I felt that I didn’t like was it really wasn’t me.
0:08:12 I grew up in a small town in the Midwest and honestly, Beverly Hills Plastic Surgery was
0:08:13 just all about the money.
0:08:16 And for me, I felt that there was more to it than that.
0:08:17 And so I ended up moving back to Michigan.
0:08:22 I started up my own practice in the outskirts of Detroit, suburbs of Detroit where my wife’s
0:08:26 parents live and my practice did not do well initially.
0:08:28 I had no patience.
0:08:32 And then all of a sudden, when I was out in Beverly Hills, we filmed an episode of Dr.
0:08:34 90210 back then.
0:08:38 Now, Dr. 90210, you may be too young to remember this, but this is one of the first plastic
0:08:40 surgery reality shows.
0:08:46 It was on the E Network and every episode that aired, they would re-air it hundreds of times.
0:08:50 And this was back before you were doing a lot on social media and stuff.
0:08:51 And so my practice started.
0:08:52 I had no patience.
0:08:53 Then this episode airs.
0:08:59 I’m literally in it for two minutes where they introduced me and then I leave.
0:09:03 And the doctor, though, in that literally two minutes I’m in, said that he’s moving
0:09:05 to Rochester, Michigan.
0:09:09 I made him an offer he couldn’t refuse and he refused it.
0:09:14 And the next day after that episode aired, my practice exploded and that buoyed my practice
0:09:15 for years.
0:09:20 And so then I parlayed that appearance on Dr. 90210, literally two minutes into eventually
0:09:24 doing a lot of national television shows like the Rachel Ray Show, Dr. Oz.
0:09:28 That was on those shows some of them dozens of times.
0:09:33 But kind of like an actor who starts realizing that the roles are going to younger, better-looking
0:09:35 people at some point.
0:09:38 I reached that point where the producers weren’t calling me as much.
0:09:42 They’re picking other doctors who are once again younger and better-looking than me.
0:09:46 And I realized I had to pivot because that was drying up.
0:09:48 And that’s when I started looking at social media.
0:09:50 I teach social media.
0:09:51 So I teach people how to grow on LinkedIn.
0:09:53 I’m a big LinkedIn influencer.
0:09:57 And one of the biggest pushpacks that I get is that they’re like, “Well, Holly, you’re
0:09:58 like a pretty girl.
0:10:01 Of course you have social media followers.
0:10:03 What about if we’re not attractive?”
0:10:07 And I always tell them it has nothing to do with what you look like.
0:10:11 So Anthony, you’re an attractive guy, but you’re not Bella Hadid, right?
0:10:13 And I’m not Bella Hadid either.
0:10:17 So talk to us about why it doesn’t really matter about your looks, and especially when
0:10:23 you are owning a business or you have a professional service, how can we leverage social media
0:10:26 without it being about what we look like?
0:10:33 I am 51 years old, and I know that there are a lot of better-looking, more muscular plastic
0:10:35 surgeons who are on social media than I am.
0:10:39 Yet why do I have more followers than any other plastic surgeon in the country?
0:10:40 It’s crazy.
0:10:42 That’s right, for God’s sakes.
0:10:46 And really, I think what it comes down to is I started focusing on social media probably
0:10:52 back in 2017, 2018, and I was doing Facebook and Twitter and that stuff, and it was doing
0:10:58 okay, but it wasn’t until 2019 and then 2020 when the pandemic hit.
0:11:03 I was one of the first OG kind of influencers, physicians on TikTok.
0:11:07 The pandemic hits, everybody is at home, and my practice closed for two and a half months.
0:11:10 Now, at the time, I had no idea how long it was going to be closed for.
0:11:14 I mean, it was a crazy, scary time for so many of us.
0:11:17 And I realized at that point that I needed to do something to help people.
0:11:22 I volunteered at my local hospital if they needed me, but God forbid if it’s a pandemic
0:11:26 and you need a plastic surgeon to come in to treat your patients, it’s got to be the
0:11:28 end of the world type of situation.
0:11:32 So thank God we didn’t get to that point, but I wanted to do something to help people,
0:11:36 and I realized that I don’t have to put stuff out there to try to get patients to come in
0:11:38 my office because it was closed.
0:11:43 So I just started creating content that for me, I thought was fun, that was entertaining,
0:11:46 that was interesting, that was maybe educational, but not always.
0:11:51 But that could even just help people pull themselves out of that horrible, crazy, scary
0:11:56 time for 10 seconds, 20 seconds, five minutes, whatever it was, that’s what I ended up trying
0:11:59 to create, and that was when everything exploded.
0:12:05 It was when I stopped worrying about being a “plastic surgeon” that everything really
0:12:06 exploded for me.
0:12:11 Part of it was that people saw, number one, I’m doing my own social media.
0:12:15 The posts weren’t made by somebody else, they were made by me.
0:12:16 It was obviously me doing it.
0:12:21 And then number two, I wasn’t worried about having to say certain things, say things the
0:12:22 right way.
0:12:26 I don’t curse much, but every once in a while you throw something like that in if that’s
0:12:30 really natural to you, and that’s really when things did really well.
0:12:34 I love it that you infuse humor into your content.
0:12:39 You have this fake feud with, I think, your best friend, Dr. Lee, which I just always think
0:12:42 is so hilarious when you do those posts.
0:12:47 So talk to us about the importance of infusing humor along with educating, because I know
0:12:51 a lot of people are learning from you, too, but they’re also laughing with you.
0:12:57 Yeah, I think really what it comes down to is you have to look at it as edutainment.
0:13:02 So anybody can follow 50 other plastic surgeons who will talk about where the scars go if you’re
0:13:06 going to get a tummy tuck, or what are the risks of having a face of surgery.
0:13:08 And it gets boring after a while.
0:13:11 So really, I think if you’re looking at it as a true creator, and I think there’s a
0:13:18 difference between being a content creator and a physician who has an Instagram account.
0:13:20 There’s a huge difference there.
0:13:22 The way I look at it is that I’m a content creator.
0:13:26 I’m creating content, and it is a creative process.
0:13:32 It’s not here, my before and after photos, or, hey, let me read basically a blog article
0:13:33 that I wrote.
0:13:34 It’s no.
0:13:38 Let me create content that’s going to cause you to be entertained, that’s going to actually
0:13:41 draw you in, and that maybe, yeah, you can learn a little bit from.
0:13:46 But honestly, sometimes the learning aspect of it is secondary to just engaging with somebody.
0:13:51 And so I think that really is key, is number one, looking at yourself as a content creator,
0:13:57 not as a business person who has an Instagram account or a TikTok account.
0:14:03 Totally. I love that advice, and I’d love to get a behind-the-scenes look at your huge
0:14:04 influencer.
0:14:06 You’re competing with huge celebrities.
0:14:07 It’s true, though.
0:14:09 Eight million followers on TikTok is nothing to sneeze on.
0:14:12 You are literally competing with top celebrities.
0:14:17 How has that actually impacted the finances of your business?
0:14:18 Have you been able to charge more?
0:14:20 Do you just have a waiting list of clients?
0:14:23 How has that impacted your business?
0:14:28 So the way I look at everything is we’re looking at it from a multiple streams of income and
0:14:33 looking at it as trying to develop streams of income that are passive, which you have
0:14:35 been great at teaching your followers about.
0:14:39 And so, yes, when you look at the streams of income that I have for myself personally,
0:14:43 I’ve got my own medical practice, so I still operate two days a week.
0:14:46 I have a full-time medical practice, so that’s one stream of income.
0:14:51 I also have extenders, physician assistants, nurses, aestheticians.
0:14:54 So that’s another stream of income for my practice.
0:14:57 I have a stream of income, then, for social media.
0:15:01 I get paid by certain social media companies like YouTube and TikTok.
0:15:03 Instagram literally pays me $20 a month.
0:15:04 It’s crazy.
0:15:05 That’s all they pay.
0:15:06 And that’s not as much as it used to be.
0:15:11 At one time, it was a lot more than that, but I also have my own skincare company, and
0:15:14 I do brand deals, so the brand deals have become a big part of it.
0:15:19 So where, let’s say, the social media companies maybe don’t pay like they used to, like TikTok.
0:15:23 I make up for that with the sponsored posts that I do.
0:15:25 And I turn down a lot more than I say yes to.
0:15:28 And so then I have, like I said, my own skincare line called You and Beauty.
0:15:30 We have skincare and supplements.
0:15:35 That’s a big part of another mode of income that we have, stream of income.
0:15:39 And then those are the main things that I can think of just offhand.
0:15:42 When most physicians, they look, and we go to our meetings, and they talk about you have
0:15:45 your practice consultants, and you know what they talk about?
0:15:47 They talk about how do you convert more patients to have surgery?
0:15:49 How do you get more patients in the door?
0:15:50 “Hella, I’ve got a two-year waiting list.
0:15:53 I don’t want more patients necessarily calling me.
0:15:56 I don’t need that, because it’s already a huge waiting list.
0:15:58 Then how do I impact people and help people?”
0:16:02 And then at the same time, profit myself off of that.
0:16:03 So good.
0:16:04 It’s so inspiring.
0:16:08 I’m sure there’s so many people out there that are doctors, lawyers, accountants.
0:16:14 They’ve got professional services, and it’s like you can parlay your experience into an
0:16:19 online brand and then monetize that online brand and have multiple revenue streams, like
0:16:20 you mentioned.
0:16:25 So I didn’t hear you say that you’re monetizing your podcast, and you are speaking to the
0:16:29 podcast princess, so if you need support monetizing your podcast, let’s definitely talk about
0:16:30 it.
0:16:31 We are working on that.
0:16:36 So yeah, what happened is I had my book come out in January, Younger for Life, and I’ve
0:16:40 had a podcast for many years, but honestly, when my YouTube and all my video stuff exploded,
0:16:43 I kind of put the podcast a little bit on the back burner.
0:16:45 I still did it here and there and stuff.
0:16:50 And then once my book came out, I started really looking at what media in general, what
0:16:54 was going on with the whole media landscape in general.
0:16:58 And I realized that I really need to refocus on the podcast because there’s so many people
0:16:59 that are listening.
0:17:00 I listen so much.
0:17:05 It’s just for years, I thought that maybe I could do better with the video stuff, but
0:17:06 now the video stuff is doing so well.
0:17:07 It’s like, “Hey, you know what?
0:17:09 I’ve got a little bit of extra time.
0:17:11 Let me focus more on the podcast.”
0:17:13 So we are looking now at monetizing it.
0:17:14 It’s been growing.
0:17:19 It’s back to much better than even where it was before I started taking time off of it.
0:17:20 And that’s a really exciting thing.
0:17:22 You just mentioned time.
0:17:23 You’ve got some time.
0:17:27 A lot of business owners who want to grow a personal brand online, they’re like, “Well,
0:17:28 I don’t have time for that.
0:17:29 I’m not an influencer.
0:17:30 I’m an entrepreneur.”
0:17:36 Talk to me about how you actually make time for your content while balancing being an author,
0:17:38 a podcaster, a doctor.
0:17:43 So I think that you have to look at it as these are things that you need to love to
0:17:44 do.
0:17:47 So for example, for me, I operate every Tuesday and Thursday.
0:17:49 I see patients every Monday and Wednesday.
0:17:51 And I used to operate Friday mornings.
0:17:52 Technically, I started my practice.
0:17:53 I used to operate all day Fridays.
0:17:58 And gradually I brought that down to the point where I was just operating a few hours in
0:18:02 the morning and then doing podcasting and social media and video creation and writing
0:18:04 books and all that stuff after that.
0:18:09 But then I realized in the end that if I get up an hour earlier on Thursday, that can make
0:18:12 up for some lost time on the time I’m operating on Friday.
0:18:14 I’ll just do a little bit more on a Thursday.
0:18:19 And now I dedicate all my Fridays to essentially podcasting and content creation.
0:18:24 And then at the same time, what I’m finding is as I’m doing more and more of the social
0:18:28 media and the podcasting and the YouTube and all that type of stuff, I’m able to charge
0:18:30 more for my surgeries.
0:18:35 I don’t take insurance anymore, and so I can really charge what I want.
0:18:39 And that has allowed me to operate less yet still make the same or more than I did when
0:18:42 I operated an extra day.
0:18:44 And now I spend that extra day doing other things.
0:18:45 I still love treating patients.
0:18:49 I love operating, but I also love a variety.
0:18:54 If I was one of those physicians that saw 60 patients a day, five days a week, year after
0:18:55 year after year, I would burn out.
0:18:57 It’s just not my thing.
0:19:00 I love doing a lot of different things, especially the creative stuff.
0:19:04 And so that’s allowed me to essentially add the creative parts in and actually in the
0:19:07 end make more money by doing that.
0:19:11 This is so great because I feel like a lot of people that are tuning in, they probably
0:19:17 feel like handcuffed to their great professional services job, but you show that you can explore
0:19:24 being creative, being a content creator, writing, podcasting, teaching others, and do stuff
0:19:27 outside what you went to school for for 10, 20 years.
0:19:31 The issue that people have, I think, is that there are so many bright lights out there.
0:19:34 There’s so many things that you can focus on.
0:19:38 And people then, they get inspired by listening to say, you know, a podcast and they say,
0:19:39 well, geez, I want to get on YouTube.
0:19:40 I want to start my podcast.
0:19:44 I want to, no, do one thing that you think you’re going to really love.
0:19:47 If you’re going to get into this, focus on that.
0:19:49 Do that really, really well.
0:19:53 And then when that’s successful, then start moving into the other things because I think
0:19:57 what happens to a lot of entrepreneurs, especially like a physician, is that they see all these
0:19:59 bright shiny objects.
0:20:01 They go after all of them at one time.
0:20:06 They do all of them not so well or half ass all of them, and then none of them really
0:20:09 become successful, then they get dejected.
0:20:13 And so my recommendation really for people who are thinking about going into something
0:20:16 a little bit different is to think about what you like to do.
0:20:18 And my first love was always video.
0:20:19 That’s why I focus on that.
0:20:23 Even though I’ve written four books and I’ve got the podcast, it’s always was a video.
0:20:26 And then once you really do that well and you’re really enjoying it, if you want to branch
0:20:32 out by all means do that, but you don’t want to be a jack of all trades master of none,
0:20:34 you want to start with that one thing that you know you’re going to love that you can
0:20:37 really excel at and then try to work your way out from there.
0:20:38 Totally.
0:20:40 And it’s so important with all these platforms.
0:20:44 They all have different features and you got to learn the algorithms.
0:20:48 You just have to figure out how you can get leverage and grow on one platform and focus
0:20:49 there.
0:20:50 And that’s a lot of hard work.
0:20:55 There are unlimited amounts of money and you can hire people, but to your point, you did
0:20:59 everything yourself and that comes off so authentically, especially for your first main
0:21:00 channel.
0:21:02 It’s so important, I think, to do it yourself.
0:21:03 Totally agree.
0:21:07 And I think too, as a physician and as a creator, you want to look at whether you are a B to
0:21:10 B person or a B to C person.
0:21:14 So for example, I’m very B to C. You know, I have some plastic surgeons that follow me.
0:21:20 I think they don’t comment on my stuff because I think that I’m kind of a bit of an outlier
0:21:23 and there’s some doctors who don’t like me, some of them are jealous of me, but I have
0:21:28 a good friend of mine and he is a B to B doctor where he has all the plastic surgeons and
0:21:29 nurses following him.
0:21:33 They comment on his stuff all the time, but he has literally one eighth, I think of the
0:21:37 followers that I have, but we create very different content.
0:21:42 And so when you’re looking as a physician or a professional, you’re creating content.
0:21:46 The first thing I encourage you to think about is, are you a B to B person or are you a B
0:21:48 to C person?
0:21:52 Once you figure which one of those out, then you want to create content for that person.
0:21:56 None of my content is B to B. You don’t see me creating any content for doctors.
0:22:01 It’s all for patients, lay people, maybe nurses, you know, maybe support staff, but almost
0:22:03 none of it is for doctors.
0:22:06 And I know now if I put something out that’s specifically for doctors, it’s going to crash
0:22:10 and burn because it’s such a small fraction of my audience.
0:22:16 I always say niche versus broad, but I really love the way that you put it B to B versus
0:22:17 B to C.
0:22:18 Okay.
0:22:20 So let’s talk about holistic medicine.
0:22:23 You call yourself a holistic plastic surgeon.
0:22:26 How does that differ from traditional cosmetic procedures?
0:22:27 This is a great question.
0:22:33 It’s something that I came up with many years ago as I hit this fork in the road with my
0:22:34 practice.
0:22:37 As plastic surgeons, we learn how to cut people open.
0:22:39 And the goal is always to bring people to surgery.
0:22:44 And I realized when I had a patient with a terrible complication that this was wrong
0:22:49 and that my goal for being a plastic surgeon should not be to try to bring as many people
0:22:54 to surgery as I can, but it should be, how do I keep them out of surgery yet still help
0:22:56 them to look and feel their best?
0:23:01 And so in my book, younger for life, the idea is it’s a concept called autojuvenation.
0:23:06 And it’s basically how you can use your body’s own natural rejuvenative abilities to turn
0:23:09 back the clock naturally.
0:23:12 But in order to do that, you have to give it the right tools and the right environment
0:23:13 to do so.
0:23:18 I definitely believe that if you incorporate those types of things, and it’s what you eat,
0:23:23 when you eat, nutritional supplements, skincare, and noninvasive treatments, when you focus
0:23:26 on those five things, the vast majority of people can look five, even up to 10 years
0:23:30 younger, and hopefully not feel the need to have to have surgery.
0:23:33 Because if anybody comes to see me and they say, “Hey, Dr. Yoon, I’m thinking of having
0:23:37 a tummy tuck or a facelift or breast lift.
0:23:39 What’s the worst thing that can happen to me?”
0:23:41 I answer, “You can die.
0:23:44 That’s the worst thing because you got to be honest with them.”
0:23:47 So anything you can do to prevent that, obviously, you want to do.
0:23:49 Anthony, I’d love for you to guess my age.
0:23:53 I never share my age, ever.
0:23:55 I never share my age.
0:23:58 And I’d love for you to guess my age.
0:23:59 27?
0:24:01 Oh, my gosh.
0:24:03 I’m 38.
0:24:04 Oh, look at you.
0:24:05 Oh, my gosh.
0:24:07 I really know how to stay looking young.
0:24:12 So I never announced my age, guys, because I really get away with looking really young.
0:24:13 Yeah, you do.
0:24:17 Well, but with what you’re doing, it’s good for people to know that you’re 38 because
0:24:24 I think that with age does come wisdom, and people believe that you have more wisdom if
0:24:25 you’re older, too.
0:24:28 Whether that’s two or not, I mean, I know people who are 50 who God knows they have
0:24:29 no wisdom.
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0:29:41 So, first, let’s talk about what is the difference between anti-aging and reverse aging, because
0:29:44 those are two different things.
0:29:48 Anti-aging basically means slowing down that aging process, because no matter what, it’s
0:29:50 going to keep moving forward.
0:29:54 Reversing aging is actually looking or being younger.
0:29:56 Now, there’s interesting things, okay?
0:30:00 There’s a difference between a biological age and a chronological age, okay?
0:30:05 So you cannot change your chronological age, you know, you’re, you said 38?
0:30:06 Yep.
0:30:07 I’m 51.
0:30:09 There’s no way I can be chronologically 50.
0:30:12 That ship has passed last year.
0:30:13 You can’t be 37.
0:30:14 That’s what you were last year.
0:30:19 But your biological age is basically the age of your body biologically on the inside, and
0:30:21 that you can change.
0:30:23 And those are those principles of auto-juvenation.
0:30:28 By changing what you eat, by exercising, by taking certain supplements, all that stuff
0:30:30 can actually reverse your biological age.
0:30:32 Now, how much can you reverse it by?
0:30:34 That’s a big question.
0:30:39 And there are people who claim to have a biological age nowhere near their chronological age.
0:30:44 You know, you got to wonder, there’s some people who use that as a marketing tactic as
0:30:45 well.
0:30:46 I know who you’re talking about.
0:30:51 And the fact is, is that you can look at somebody on the outside and have an idea of what their
0:30:55 biological age is, because what is on the inside will show on your skin.
0:30:57 The skin is our magic mirror.
0:30:58 I have a good friend of mine, Dr. Trevor Cates.
0:31:00 She said, our skin is our magic mirror.
0:31:03 It is what’s on the inside will show on your skin.
0:31:07 The interesting thing is that, and this is where my book is a little bit different than
0:31:13 some of the other anti-aging books by certain scientists, is that there are people who will
0:31:17 talk about different things you can do to anti-age your body and increase longevity.
0:31:21 But a lot of them don’t honestly look that young.
0:31:26 And there are studies that show that the younger you look, technically, the longer you will
0:31:27 live.
0:31:33 And there are actually twin studies that show that the identical twins, the younger looking
0:31:37 of the identical twin, typically lives longer than the older looking of the two.
0:31:38 Wow.
0:31:40 Yeah, even though genetically they’re the same.
0:31:41 That’s so interesting.
0:31:43 So I have a funny story about this.
0:31:46 So Dave Asprey, who’s coming on my show again in a couple of weeks.
0:31:47 I love Dave.
0:31:48 Dave’s a friend of mine.
0:31:49 Dave’s awesome.
0:31:53 So Dave came on my show a couple of years ago, and I remember when he came on the show,
0:31:54 he was like 48.
0:31:57 And so I was like, Dave, you’re 48 years old.
0:32:00 You say you’re going to live to 180 and he like cut me off.
0:32:02 And he was like, Hala, that’s agist.
0:32:05 He’s like, I don’t align with being 48.
0:32:07 He was like offended that I called him 48 years old.
0:32:13 And he’s like, I am 27% of my goal of being 180 years old.
0:32:15 I’m 27% years old.
0:32:19 And I always thought of that whenever I thought about my age, I was like, man, I don’t feel
0:32:20 38.
0:32:24 I feel like I’m like, you know, 25% of my goal.
0:32:30 So I feel with AI and all the advances in medicine and everything going on, I really
0:32:34 truly feel that people are going to start looking so much younger.
0:32:35 It’s already happening.
0:32:38 30 year olds look nothing like they used to.
0:32:43 I remember seeing 30 year olds and they looked so much older than what 30 and 40 year olds
0:32:44 look like now.
0:32:45 Yeah, yeah.
0:32:49 And I just feel like people are going to really start coming forward with their biological
0:32:55 age versus their chronological age, like, hey, medically, I’m actually this age.
0:32:59 And I just feel like that’s going to really be the future because right now I feel like
0:33:01 sometimes I look really young.
0:33:05 I go out and I feel like I look much younger than other 20 year olds who aren’t working
0:33:07 out and eating healthy.
0:33:09 I literally look younger than them.
0:33:12 Part of it is I think this generation are the millennials.
0:33:13 They take care of themselves so much better.
0:33:17 I mean, one of the shows I grew up watching was the Golden Girls.
0:33:21 And I’m sure you’ve seen those memes on social media where you see Ruma Klannahan from the
0:33:26 Golden Girls where she was like 53 and then JLo, who’s the same age.
0:33:28 And it’s insane when you think about it.
0:33:33 And JLo, as much as I personally, I’m not her doctor, so I have no evidence of any of
0:33:34 this.
0:33:39 I don’t think it’s just olive oil of why she looks so young, but I also don’t think it’s
0:33:40 all plastic surgery.
0:33:44 This is a woman who has taken a great, whether you love her or not, or dislike her.
0:33:46 She’s taken great care of herself.
0:33:47 She exercises regularly.
0:33:48 She washes what she eats.
0:33:51 I’m sure she uses great skincare.
0:33:54 She protects her skin and that can really make a difference.
0:33:55 There are genetics though.
0:34:00 Genetics do play a factor in it, but we believe that’s only about 20%.
0:34:05 It’s that 80/20 rule and that 20% of your Asian will be determined by your genetics.
0:34:09 The other 80% is what you do with them, is the epigenetics part of it.
0:34:12 And then there are some people who benefit a lot from that.
0:34:15 I think the 80/20 rule is pretty generalized.
0:34:20 If you are really light-skinned, you’re, let’s say, Irish, that’s going to be more than probably
0:34:22 20%, unfortunately, for you.
0:34:27 Same thing, if you are African-American or even Asian, we do get the benefit because
0:34:31 the melon in our skin of maybe being more than that 20% in genetics, having us age a
0:34:36 bit more slowly than somebody who’s Irish where that’s on the other side of it.
0:34:40 It’s interesting, but definitely what you see on the outside does project what’s on
0:34:41 the inside.
0:34:44 Not 100%, but a good portion of it.
0:34:49 Is it possible that if your insides are aging faster, that you actually look older than
0:34:50 your age?
0:34:54 If you’re going to us, what are some of the signs that your insides might not be as healthy
0:34:56 as they should be?
0:35:01 Some very simple thing that we know of is that the health of our gut, our microbiome,
0:35:02 will really show on the skin.
0:35:07 And there are early studies now showing that if you’ve got, let’s say, poor gut health,
0:35:12 if your microbiome is unhealthy, if you’re eating a lot of inflammatory-type foods, then
0:35:14 that will show on your skin as inflamed skin.
0:35:20 So there are connections between skin conditions like rosacea, like eczema, even acne that
0:35:23 do have a connection to the health of the gut.
0:35:28 And so anybody who’s truly looking at skin care and skin health from a truly holistic
0:35:32 perspective needs to do more than unfortunately what some of us have been doing for the last
0:35:36 50 years, which is just focusing on sunblock and creams.
0:35:40 Yes, that is an important part of it, but also the health of your gut is really going
0:35:41 to show in that manner.
0:35:45 And we have direct correlations and studies now showing that.
0:35:47 So let’s step back a minute.
0:35:52 Let’s talk about your career journey a bit, because you started as a traditional plastic
0:35:54 surgeon.
0:35:58 So how did you then switch gears to be like, “Okay, I just want to reset here and focus
0:36:00 more on holistic?”
0:36:01 What really reset you?
0:36:05 So I had this patient who I performed a facelift on.
0:36:09 And at this point in my career, I was probably, I don’t know, seven, eight, ten years into
0:36:10 my career.
0:36:13 And I thought that I’d hit the pinnacle of success.
0:36:14 I had over a year waiting list.
0:36:18 I had patients flying in from all over the country to have operations done by me.
0:36:23 In surgery, there are certain operations that we look at and we take pride in because we’re
0:36:24 able to do them.
0:36:29 And they’re typically the more difficult operations where the patients are very choosy on who
0:36:30 does their surgery.
0:36:34 So for example, if you’re a general surgeon, that operation is the Whipple.
0:36:40 The Whipple is like a 10-hour pancreatic cancer operation that when you’re in your training,
0:36:43 if you’re so lucky to see a Whipple, you’re very fortunate.
0:36:48 And those types of operations are only really done by the most experienced surgeons because
0:36:49 they’re so difficult.
0:36:53 In plastic surgery, that operation is probably the facelift.
0:36:57 Patients will pick almost anybody to do their lipo or even their BBL, but you know that
0:37:00 if they’re going to do a facelift on you, they’re going to cut open and lift up your
0:37:04 face and stuff that they’re going to be super choosy in their doctor.
0:37:09 So Holla for many years, I literally graded the success in my practice based off how many
0:37:15 facelift patients I had on the schedule as ridiculous as that may sound.
0:37:16 And I had a patient who flew in to see me.
0:37:17 She had a facelift done.
0:37:19 The surgery went perfectly.
0:37:22 And she developed some terrible complications afterwards.
0:37:25 And it really got me into thinking, am I doing the right thing?
0:37:30 And I hit this rock bottom and I started realizing what I’d mentioned earlier about the goal
0:37:31 of my practice.
0:37:37 And so I spent many, many months trying to really look at and rethink what I was doing.
0:37:42 When I started reading books, for example, in my training as a plastic surgeon, I got
0:37:43 almost no training on nutrition.
0:37:48 I never spent a single day with a dermatologist learning about skin.
0:37:50 We didn’t get this type of thing.
0:37:54 And so I realized that there was so much that I didn’t know that I needed to learn.
0:38:01 And I spent tens of thousands of hours basically reading books, studying, looking up studies,
0:38:05 creating my own supplement protocol for healing that since then has been pretty much co-apted
0:38:07 by a lot of other companies.
0:38:11 And I created this whole concept of auto-juvenation and holistic plastic surgery.
0:38:15 And I read books from people who I’d not heard of until I really started digging deep in
0:38:16 this books by Dave Asprey.
0:38:19 I read a couple of Dave Asprey’s books.
0:38:23 And all of these alternative holistic experts, whether they’re naturopaths, whether they’re
0:38:27 biohackers, whether they’re dermatologists, I was able to get a little bit from each of
0:38:31 them to really come up with what I’m doing in my career now.
0:38:32 So interesting.
0:38:35 And something that I want to call out for all of my listeners.
0:38:39 Some entrepreneurs, executives they’re listening in, and they’re like, “Well, what do I care
0:38:41 about looking younger?”
0:38:47 And I have to say that I feel like I have so much advantage in the business space looking
0:38:48 younger.
0:38:55 I literally feel like I have 10 years extra than everybody else because I look younger.
0:38:56 And that is such an advantage.
0:38:59 So I’d love to hear your thoughts about career-wise.
0:39:03 Why is it an important thing to try to look and feel your best?
0:39:07 For my career being a plastic surgeon, if I walked in the room and I had huge bags under
0:39:10 my eyes or something like that, then obviously that’s going to impact how people feel about
0:39:14 me, even though some of that may be subconsciously.
0:39:18 But also I think I see a lot of people who come into my office who are executives, who
0:39:21 are business people, who are entrepreneurs, and they are coming in to get little tweaks
0:39:27 because they know that what they see in the mirror doesn’t match how they feel on the inside.
0:39:31 So we talked a little bit about how what are inside is mirrored by what’s on the outside.
0:39:34 There’s only so much control you have over that.
0:39:38 And you could be feeling great and be in great shape for somebody who’s, let’s say, 60 years
0:39:41 old, but you’re still going to have that aging.
0:39:44 You can’t when you’re 60 look like you’re 35.
0:39:48 It’s just not possible unless you’re a freak of nature, okay?
0:39:49 And there’s very few people who are like that.
0:39:53 But if you’re like most people, if you are lucky, maybe you’re going to look 5, 10 years
0:39:55 younger and that’s great.
0:39:58 But sometimes no matter what you do, that’s going to be a part of it.
0:40:02 And so there are so many people who do find that when they look in the mirror and they
0:40:07 feel better about themselves, that that can really impact their job performance and how
0:40:09 they look at themselves as a business person, as an entrepreneur.
0:40:14 I’ve seen so many people in my practice, whether they have had surgery or not had surgery,
0:40:17 whether they have just done some of the things that I recommend, the auto-juvenative ways
0:40:22 to turn back the clock naturally, and it has profoundly impacted their life.
0:40:26 In some ways, they’re somewhat indirect, you know, it’s just by feeling good about yourself,
0:40:29 you’re going to come across differently to other people.
0:40:33 One way I think about it is we all know how it feels when we go to a store and we buy
0:40:35 a new outfit.
0:40:40 And we put that outfit on and we’re still the same person, okay, on the inside.
0:40:45 But wearing that outfit, we feel in some ways better about ourselves, whether you’re looking
0:40:50 for Jones and for compliments or not, just the fact that we’re wearing something new and
0:40:52 we kind of like it, it makes us feel good.
0:40:57 And that’s what we should be feeling all the time about ourselves in general.
0:40:59 And think about how you feel that way.
0:41:04 You’re going to project that whether it is subtly, subconsciously projecting it or projecting
0:41:06 it and knowing that you’re projecting that.
0:41:11 And I feel like it has nothing to do with being extremely attractive.
0:41:18 It’s almost just about being your best version of yourself and looking fresh and not tired
0:41:19 and things like that.
0:41:21 And I think it’s healthy too.
0:41:23 I think in the end, health is beauty.
0:41:27 There are people who are in their seventies who have a lot of wrinkles, but you know they’re
0:41:30 healthy and they’re beautiful and they project that that way.
0:41:33 You know, a good example of that is Audrey Hepburn.
0:41:35 She died, I think when she was in her late seventies.
0:41:38 And when she was at that age, she was still so beautiful.
0:41:42 I don’t think she had hardly any work done, but she was absolutely beautiful at that time.
0:41:49 I have to check out her pictures at 70, 70 years old so I can have some motivation.
0:41:53 She was one in breakfast at Tiffany’s and as she aged, she just aged so gracefully.
0:41:55 I don’t know if she’s had a little work done.
0:41:59 At that time, there wasn’t a lot of work being done specifically, but she just looked great.
0:42:02 And I think that we can project that it doesn’t have necessarily just be about the wrinkles
0:42:03 and stuff.
0:42:04 It truly is about the health.
0:42:09 So speaking of that, you talked about auto-juvenation, you threw that word out there.
0:42:11 Can you define that for us?
0:42:16 So auto-juvenation is how you can use your body’s own regenerative abilities to turn
0:42:17 back the clock.
0:42:23 And it was those five things I mentioned earlier of what you eat, when you eat, nutritional
0:42:27 supplements, skincare, and non-invasive treatments.
0:42:31 And so these are the five things I focus on in my book, Younger for Life, because those
0:42:35 are the five things really that if you do really focus on that, I strongly believe that
0:42:38 virtually everybody can look five to 10 years younger.
0:42:41 So what you eat is going to be eating an anti-inflammatory diet.
0:42:45 You want to make sure you get sufficient amounts of healthy protein, cutting out the
0:42:46 ultra-processed foods.
0:42:50 I’m sure Dave’s going to talk a lot about this type of stuff when he comes on.
0:42:54 When you eat, it’s going to be adding a little bit of intermittent fasting into it.
0:42:58 One thing that we do know is if you want to age more slowly, the number one thing you
0:43:03 can technically do is calorie restriction, but calorie restriction is no fun.
0:43:07 And so another option would be to do intermittent fasting or time-restricted eating.
0:43:11 So basically just giving your body short periods of time, whether it’s 12 hours, sometimes
0:43:17 16, where you give your gut a rest and you let your body’s natural, rejuvenative mechanisms
0:43:18 work itself.
0:43:19 It’s called autophagy.
0:43:21 I think that’s important.
0:43:22 And then supplements.
0:43:23 I’m a big fan of supplements.
0:43:25 Happy to talk about them if you like.
0:43:28 Skin care, and we can talk about a good skin care routine.
0:43:31 And then non-invasive treatments are so much out there that’s so exciting to turn back
0:43:35 the clock without getting injected or getting cut on.
0:43:36 I’m going to pick your brain on all of this.
0:43:40 So like you mentioned, you’ve got this book, Younger for Life.
0:43:44 In a minute, you have a two minutes, five years younger skin care routine.
0:43:46 Can you break that down for us?
0:43:51 If you are like so many people and you are confused about what to do with your skin and
0:43:54 you go to Sephora or Ulta and you’re like, what do I buy?
0:43:56 This is the basic thing that everybody should do.
0:43:59 And if you do this, you’re going to be way ahead of everybody else.
0:44:00 It takes just two minutes a day.
0:44:03 So you start in the morning, you cleanse your skin with a cleanser appropriate for your skin
0:44:04 type.
0:44:09 And so if you’ve got kind of drier, more mature skin, then going for a more milky or
0:44:12 hydrating cleanser is important.
0:44:16 If you’ve got more oily skin, if you’re sometimes on the younger side, then a more foaming
0:44:19 cleanser often is better for skin like that.
0:44:23 After that, you want to apply a vitamin C or antioxidant serum.
0:44:25 Vitamin C you can find most skin care lines have it.
0:44:29 We’ve got one called our CE antioxidant serum, but using a vitamin C serum in the morning
0:44:32 is going to help protect your skin from free radicals.
0:44:37 Free radicals are one of the main causes of our skin aging and using vitamin C will help
0:44:42 protect it from that as well as help with blemishes and collagen production as well.
0:44:45 And then the third thing in the morning is to apply a sunscreen.
0:44:47 I do recommend at least SPF 30.
0:44:49 If you’re going to be inside, do you have to wear it?
0:44:53 Not necessarily, but definitely you’re going to be out quite a bit then sunscreen is helpful.
0:44:58 That’s all you have to do in the morning, cleanse, vitamin C serum, and then a sunscreen.
0:45:01 In the evening, got to cleanse your skin.
0:45:04 If you only wash your skin once a day, make sure it’s in the evening because you got to
0:45:09 get rid of the days worth of dirt and grime and pollution and oil and all that type of
0:45:10 stuff.
0:45:11 And definitely makeup.
0:45:15 So wash your skin at night and then you want to apply an anti-aging cream.
0:45:19 The one I usually recommend as a starter is a retinol.
0:45:24 Retinol is a form of vitamin A. Most big skin care companies have a retinol moisturizer.
0:45:29 That’s a cornerstone for our Youn Beauty line, a retinol moisturizer.
0:45:33 Science shows that those are the most potent anti-aging creams out there if you don’t have
0:45:34 a prescription.
0:45:35 Okay.
0:45:37 So use a retinol at night.
0:45:41 If you have real sensitive skin, if you’ve got real sensitive skin, then use Bakuchyol.
0:45:45 Bakuchyol is a plant-based alternative to retinol.
0:45:49 Appears to work very similarly, but it’s more easily tolerated.
0:45:51 And technically that’s it.
0:45:56 Maybe once or twice a week, exfoliate your skin with a nice gentle exfoliating agent,
0:45:59 whether it’s an at-home peel or like a scrub.
0:46:00 That’s all you have to do.
0:46:01 So really that’s a two minutes, five years younger.
0:46:07 Cleansing, cleanse, vitamin C, sunscreen, night, cleanse, and a retinol.
0:46:11 If you want to apply a moisturizer on top of that, if it’s real dry, then feel free
0:46:12 to do that.
0:46:14 And then once or twice a week, exfoliate your skin.
0:46:16 And that’s all you have to technically do.
0:46:20 It sounds really easy, but I’m sure I have mostly male listeners, surprisingly, and I’m
0:46:24 sure they’re listening to this like, “I’m not doing all that.”
0:46:25 All right.
0:46:28 If you’re a guy and you want to say you want to limit what you’re doing, first thing is
0:46:32 definitely use a facial cleanser, not bar soap, because bar soap will definitely dry
0:46:34 your skin out.
0:46:35 Apply the sunscreen.
0:46:38 If you’re going to be out, if you’re not, then at least do a vitamin C serum.
0:46:40 And then at night, you just got to apply the retinol.
0:46:42 You can skip the exfoliating part of it.
0:46:43 That’s fine.
0:46:44 Just do those things.
0:46:48 You don’t want to get to that point where you’re 50, 60, 70 years old and you go, “Geez,
0:46:50 why didn’t I do any of this earlier?
0:46:52 Now what am I going to do?”
0:46:56 We’ll be right back after a quick break from our sponsors.
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0:51:12 You talk about sunscreen, and sunscreen gets a lot of hate lately.
0:51:15 People are like, “Oh, it’s a hormone disruptor.”
0:51:17 We think sunscreen prevents cancer.
0:51:20 Now people are saying it causes cancer with its harmful chemicals.
0:51:24 People are saying it’s the reason for everyone’s low vitamin D.
0:51:28 Can you talk to us about maybe what kind of sunscreen we should actually look for, and
0:51:32 then also how do you feel about these sunscreen naysayers?
0:51:36 As a plastic surgeon, I can’t tell you how many people have come into my office with
0:51:39 a tiny little lesion on their face.
0:51:40 It ends up being skin cancer.
0:51:41 They come back to see me.
0:51:46 They got a huge hole in their nose, or part of their eyelid is gone, or part of their
0:51:47 lip is gone.
0:51:51 You do not want to skin cancer on your face, period.
0:51:55 Anything that you can do within reason to prevent that, you really want to do, because
0:51:58 it can be absolutely devastating to your appearance.
0:52:02 There are certain camps out there that have certain beliefs, and really let me tell you
0:52:08 a more moderate approach to it, kind of middle-of-the-road approach, is that there are certain ingredients
0:52:11 in sunscreens that are considered by some to be hormone disruptors.
0:52:15 They are typically oxybenzone and octinoxate.
0:52:20 Oxybenzone and octinoxate are the ones that are primarily considered to be hormone disruptors
0:52:24 that also may be causing potential damage to the coral reefs.
0:52:27 If you go to Hawaii, maybe some islands in the Caribbean, they actually won’t let you
0:52:31 wear certain sunscreens that contain those ingredients because they’re concerned about
0:52:32 that.
0:52:35 I do recommend, in general, to avoid those.
0:52:37 They’re chemical sunscreens.
0:52:39 There’s chemical and there’s physical.
0:52:41 The chemical sunscreens basically are put onto your skin.
0:52:46 They absorb into your skin, and then they create a chemical reaction to help prevent
0:52:51 the damage from the UV rays of the sun from damaging your skin.
0:52:55 Physical sunblocks are made to sit on the surface of the skin and literally just block
0:52:58 the sun’s rays from getting to your skin.
0:53:00 Those are the ones that are going to be thicker.
0:53:04 Back in the day, there were lifeguards that would look like white paste on the surface
0:53:06 of their nose, zinc oxide.
0:53:09 That’s the main physical sunscreen ingredient.
0:53:11 That’s what it is.
0:53:14 There are some people who say, “If you’re going to wear sunscreen, use a physical blocker.”
0:53:18 I think, in general, especially for children, that’s what I recommend because they’re going
0:53:22 to physically block the sun and there’s no concern about endocrine or hormone disrupting
0:53:24 from them.
0:53:28 The problem with it is, if you are a person of color, then it can make your skin look
0:53:31 ashy, give your skin a whitish hue.
0:53:35 That’s not necessarily all that great cosmetically, then.
0:53:39 If you do have darker skin and you want to go with a chemical sunscreen, then I recommend
0:53:45 ones that have been shown to not be endocrine disruptors, like ones with Avobenzone, Megzoral
0:53:46 XL.
0:53:51 Those are two very popular ones that you can use, I think, very safely.
0:53:55 That’s the way I look at it is, number one, if you want to go out in the sun, you don’t
0:53:56 want to get burned.
0:54:00 You want to try to avoid, obviously, the rays from causing aging of your skin and eventual
0:54:03 skin cancer, so definitely protect your skin.
0:54:07 With your kids, use a physical blocker with zinc oxide or titanium dioxide.
0:54:11 If you can tolerate that and you’ve got skin color that will tolerate, then by all means,
0:54:12 use that too.
0:54:16 If, however, you want something that’s going to feel much lighter on your skin that’s not
0:54:21 going to leave that whitish hue, then go with the chemical sunscreens, but pick ones like
0:54:28 Avobenzone and Megzoral XL and try to stay away from oxybenzone and octinoxate.
0:54:33 Then answering your vitamin D question, yes, vitamin D is so essential, and there’s so
0:54:35 many of us who are deficient in it.
0:54:39 I, myself, 100% believe in the therapeutic qualities of the sun.
0:54:42 I live in Detroit for God’s sakes, and when we’re in the middle of the winter and you
0:54:46 get a sunny day, everybody’s outside and like, “Oh my gosh, it feels so good on our skin.”
0:54:47 Do that.
0:54:48 It’s fine.
0:54:53 Studies show that if you are Caucasian, you only need 15 minutes a day of direct sunlight
0:54:58 to your skin to create enough vitamin D so that you are not vitamin D deficient.
0:55:03 However, if you have darker skin, you need more time in the sun to get that.
0:55:05 I think that there’s a happy medium there somewhere.
0:55:08 I, myself, don’t wear sunscreen every day.
0:55:11 If I’m going to be out, a lot, then I will, but if I’m just going in and out from the
0:55:13 car and stuff, I don’t.
0:55:16 I think you need to find what you feel is appropriate for yourself and definitely for
0:55:17 your family.
0:55:18 I totally agree on that.
0:55:22 That was like a sunscreen masterclass, so thank you for that.
0:55:26 I love to do advanced treatments.
0:55:31 I’m taking my skin care very seriously, and so I used to go to the salon and do radio
0:55:34 frequency treatments, and they are phenomenal.
0:55:36 I love them so much.
0:55:41 I really don’t do Botox or anything like I’ve just been doing radio frequency, and I even
0:55:46 have at home machines now from this brand, Amiro, who I need to get a sponsorship from
0:55:51 them because I’m always shouting them out, but they have red light, radio frequency,
0:55:53 microcurrents.
0:55:58 It’s so awesome, and I use them all the time, and it’s saved me so much money, so I’d love
0:56:03 to just hear your thoughts about using these at home machines or even getting professional
0:56:07 spa treatments to actually build collagen.
0:56:10 I think it’s just a little bit more effective than the topical treatments.
0:56:14 Yeah, I think that those are great, and I think that right now we’re hitting a renaissance
0:56:17 where there’s so many at home devices that can be helpful.
0:56:20 I think the first thing for your listeners, if you say, “Hey, what should I start with?”
0:56:26 The easiest thing is to get a red light therapy, either a mask or a red light therapy handheld
0:56:27 or a tabletop device.
0:56:32 So red light therapy, we know the idea behind red light therapy is that the energy from
0:56:36 that red light gets taken up by the mitochondria of your cells, and mitochondria basically
0:56:42 are the powerhouses of our cells, and it causes our cells to create more ATP or more energy.
0:56:47 So essentially, the red light energizes your cells to be more youthful, and there are studies
0:56:50 that do show, not a lot of studies, but there are studies that do show that using red light
0:56:54 therapy can increase the elastin and the collagen content in your skin.
0:56:56 So I’m a big fan of red light therapy.
0:57:01 I do it myself at home, not as much as I should, just because I always forget, honestly.
0:57:05 I do it a lot on my head because I have a laser helmet that I use because my hair, God
0:57:09 forbid, was thinning a bit, and so that definitely helps.
0:57:12 So the first thing I would recommend would be red light therapy.
0:57:15 There are at home, as you mentioned, radio frequency devices.
0:57:19 There are at home laser hair removal devices and stuff like that.
0:57:23 And I think more and more of those are becoming more and more powerful and safer and safer
0:57:24 to use.
0:57:27 But the first thing I would recommend would be red light therapy because I think that
0:57:32 one has the most science behind it and probably the most potential benefit.
0:57:36 And then if you’re going into an office setting, part of the reason why I don’t do red light
0:57:40 therapy too, in addition to forgetting about doing it, is I do do treatments in my office.
0:57:43 And those are obviously going to be more powerful than those.
0:57:47 And so whether it’s certain chemical peels, one of our most popular treatments is Morpheus
0:57:48 8.
0:57:51 That’s radio frequency combined with micro-needling.
0:57:54 And that’s a really good skin tightening, non-invasive skin tightening treatment.
0:57:56 There’s so much out there that’s really exciting.
0:57:57 Yeah.
0:57:59 Radio frequency to me, I think, is the future.
0:58:04 I feel like there’s going to be radio frequency spas that open up and so many people don’t
0:58:05 know about it.
0:58:08 And it’s, I think, the fountain of youth in my opinion.
0:58:09 Okay.
0:58:11 So you mentioned your hair loss.
0:58:12 I recently became single.
0:58:17 And so I am of the age where now I’m starting to go on dates with guys that are losing their
0:58:18 hair.
0:58:21 It’s a sad statement on us.
0:58:22 Yes.
0:58:24 And I could tell it’s affecting their self-esteem.
0:58:27 And I want to whisper like, just go to Turkey, you know, you’re rich.
0:58:30 But you actually did not do an invasive treatment.
0:58:34 So talk to us to all the guys out there that are having receding hairline problems, thinning
0:58:35 hair.
0:58:37 What are some options for them?
0:58:41 If you’re a male or even if you’re a female and you are noticing your hair thinning, there
0:58:44 is a very stepwise process I recommend you go through.
0:58:46 And I do put that in the “Younger for Life” book.
0:58:49 But the first thing you want to look at is stress, okay?
0:58:51 So stress will make your hair get thin.
0:58:53 Are you in a stressful time in your life?
0:58:56 And if you are, then that’s something you want to deal with, you know, meditation, yoga,
0:58:57 all those things are great.
0:58:58 Getting more sleep, okay?
0:59:04 But if you’re like, no, I’m actually not stressed, I’m happy and stress is not an issue for me.
0:59:08 Then the next thing you want to look at then is nutritional deficiencies.
0:59:12 Now you can see a functional medicine doctor and they can do a ton of labs on you and see
0:59:17 where you have a nutritional deficiency, because a lot of nutritional deficiencies can cost
0:59:21 thinning hair, whether it’s iron, vitamin D, zinc, a lot of different things can contribute
0:59:22 to it.
0:59:26 Once again, the lazy approach to it, which a lot of people will do is you get a nutritional
0:59:31 supplement like Nutrafol that basically has everything you need.
0:59:36 And so Nutrafol, not my company, but they basically have a men’s version.
0:59:41 They have a pre-menopausal women’s version, a post-menopausal women’s version, a vegan
0:59:45 women’s version and a postpartum women’s version as well.
0:59:48 And these are nutritional supplements that basically are all in one.
0:59:50 So whatever nutritional deficiency, they will take care of it.
0:59:54 So that would be the next thing I would recommend would be to getting on a nutritional supplement
0:59:56 in case it’s deficiency related.
1:00:01 The next thing after that is going to be red light therapy or a laser helmet.
1:00:02 That’s what I use.
1:00:07 Typically you wear those for anywhere from 15 to 30 minutes a few times a week.
1:00:08 And that can help.
1:00:11 After that, you want to look at topicals, okay?
1:00:15 So obviously the most popular topical is going to be minoxidil or Rogaine.
1:00:18 There’s men’s strength and women’s strength.
1:00:19 Here’s a little tip.
1:00:21 Women’s strength is BS.
1:00:24 If you’re a woman and you want to use minoxidil and they all have a men’s and women’s, they
1:00:28 charge more for women’s, but it’s weaker strength and women can use the men’s strength.
1:00:29 It’s so stupid.
1:00:34 So feel free to use the men’s version of minoxidil if you’re a female and you’re thinning your
1:00:35 hair.
1:00:39 If you don’t want to put yourself on a pharmaceutical, which that is a pharmaceutical, basically
1:00:44 it’s a medication that side effect is growing of the hair, then you can try topical rosemary
1:00:45 oil.
1:00:50 There’s a small study that shows topical rosemary oil may have very similar effects to thinning
1:00:55 hair as minoxidil, but with less skin irritation.
1:01:00 And so adding a topical like either rosemary oil or minoxil, definitely recommend.
1:01:04 If that’s not doing, you want to give yourself a good six months of doing all of those things.
1:01:09 If after six months you’re seeing no change at all, or it’s not enough of a change, then
1:01:14 the next step would be PRP injections where they draw your blood, they spin out the platelets,
1:01:19 which are chock full of growth factors, and then inject it into thin areas of your scalp.
1:01:22 That you do need to do a couple of times a year to keep it up, but that can really help
1:01:23 as well.
1:01:27 That’s going to be the stepwise progression that I recommend.
1:01:33 Treating your stress, treating your nutritional deficiencies, red light therapy, topicals,
1:01:36 and then none of that works, then you may want to go into some injections.
1:01:40 And then going to Turkey and getting a hair transplant is way down the list, unless, unless
1:01:44 in this situation, if you’ve got a bald area, then none of these are going to treat it.
1:01:48 It’s only for thinning hair, but if you’ve got like in the crown, you’ve got a big bald
1:01:52 patch in the crown, then yes, that’s going to be hair transplants.
1:01:54 Such good advice.
1:01:56 I’d love to stick on food for a bit.
1:02:01 So can you talk to us why it’s important to eat a variety of foods?
1:02:05 Well the number one thing with the variety is going to come with your fruits and vegetables.
1:02:10 One of the main ages of our skin, as I mentioned earlier, is free radicals, is oxidation.
1:02:16 So the way that happens basically is that because we are alive, our body has a metabolism.
1:02:20 It’s like a factory that’s creating energy and we’ve got byproducts of it, like the
1:02:22 exhaust from your car.
1:02:27 These byproducts are called free radicals and they can damage the DNA of our cells that
1:02:30 they build up to a too large of an extent.
1:02:34 So just the fact that we’re alive, our body creates as a consequence of being alive free
1:02:40 radicals and then our body will actually create antioxidants to neutralize these free radicals.
1:02:44 And if you’re in a very healthy state, if you’re like Dave Asprey, then the amount of
1:02:48 antioxidants that your body is creating is probably very similar to the amount of free
1:02:52 radicals your body is creating and you’re in a good homeostasis.
1:02:57 However, if you’re exposed to a lot of pollution, if you’re eating a lot of ultra process foods,
1:03:02 a lot of deep fried foods and things like that, if you’re smoking, then those free radicals
1:03:07 can be much greater than the antioxidants that your body is creating and that creates
1:03:10 a state we call oxidative stress.
1:03:14 Where those free radicals are so numerous that they’re now attacking the DNA of your
1:03:19 cells that can lead to premature aging and even potentially cancer down the line.
1:03:24 So what once again stops those free radicals, neutralize them antioxidants?
1:03:28 I mentioned earlier when we were talking about skincare vitamin C and vitamin C being an
1:03:34 antioxidant, antioxidants are basically in the pigment of the fruits and vegetables that
1:03:35 you eat.
1:03:40 And so if you eat only, let’s say orange fruits and vegetables and you only get a certain
1:03:43 type of those pigments, a certain type of antioxidants.
1:03:47 But if you eat the rainbow of colorful fruits and vegetables, now you’re getting a wide
1:03:52 variety of those antioxidants and hopefully a lot of them to neutralize the free radicals
1:03:56 and to slow down or stop that premature aging process.
1:04:01 I had a doctor on the show one time, Dr. Gundry, who told everybody to give fruit the
1:04:02 boot.
1:04:03 Yes.
1:04:09 And I remember for like six months I didn’t eat fruit and my mom was getting so mad at
1:04:10 me.
1:04:11 She’s like, “Eat your fruit.”
1:04:15 And I’d started and I was like, “Yeah, I feel much healthier eating fruit.”
1:04:16 Yeah.
1:04:23 The argument is that fruit is filled with fructose and fructose is a sugar and sugar is the great
1:04:24 age of our bodies.
1:04:30 And so I think you take that belief and then you can then project it into well, then don’t
1:04:31 eat any fruit at all.
1:04:36 But the fact is, is that there is so much more to fruit than the fructose.
1:04:41 There is a ton of fiber and fiber helps to slow down the digestion of that fruit and
1:04:45 the sugar that you get, the sugar spikes and the fructose and all of that.
1:04:49 And there’s a ton of antioxidants, there are vitamins and minerals.
1:04:53 And there are phytonutrients, which are even parts of the fruit that we don’t even understand
1:04:55 that are so good for our bodies.
1:05:02 My dad, he eats a big plate of fruit every morning and he’s Korean, he is 83 now.
1:05:06 And I swear to God that you take away some of the physical movement issues that he may
1:05:09 have as he’s getting older, but he’s going to live to like 100.
1:05:14 And part of it is because every day he is infusing his body with these antioxidants because fruits
1:05:20 are filled with antioxidants, as well as vitamins and minerals and phytonutrients and fiber
1:05:22 being so good for our body as well.
1:05:27 So I am not one to poo poo fruit, I’m not a fan of fruit juice and fruit juicing because
1:05:31 now you’re taking all that fiber out and so you are getting the sugar spikes.
1:05:38 But if you’re eating an apple or an orange or a pear or grapes or berries or grape, those
1:05:43 are grape fruits that, it just does not make sense to me as a physician that those would
1:05:45 be bad for you at all.
1:05:48 I totally agree, I totally agree with you.
1:05:49 And how about meats?
1:05:50 What is your perspective on meat?
1:05:55 Because sometimes I see vegans and they look beautiful.
1:05:58 Sometimes I see vegans and I’m like, you look sick, you know?
1:06:02 They actually look sick and tired, so I’d love to get your perspective on that.
1:06:07 I consider veganism to be a more of a moral choice than a health choice in general.
1:06:11 I admire vegans, I think that their hearts are in the right places and I have friends
1:06:16 of mine who are vegan and some people really, I think, do great with that.
1:06:19 But I think that there are a lot of people, myself included and I went, not vegan, but
1:06:24 I went vegetarian for a while and I found that I feel much better if I have some type of
1:06:27 animal protein, getting some type of meat for me.
1:06:30 There are different perspectives I think it’s important to bring up.
1:06:34 I have a good friend of mine, Dr. Gabrielle Lyons, she wrote a bestselling book about
1:06:39 how important protein is to muscles and how especially women as they get older don’t get
1:06:44 enough protein and that can be really harmful to the aging of their bodies and I do believe
1:06:45 that that is true.
1:06:50 But also when you look at anti-aging scientists, the more protein that you eat, the less long
1:06:54 you live essentially because you are in a state where you’re building up muscle and
1:06:58 that’s technically not the best thing for overall longevity in the end and so there
1:07:03 are confounding factors here and so the way I would look at it is physically as you get
1:07:08 older, you need to have sufficient amounts of protein for your skin because your skin
1:07:11 is filled with collagen and collagen is a protein, but also for your muscles because
1:07:16 you don’t want to have a situation where let’s say you fall, you break your hip and when
1:07:21 you break your hip over the age of 50, there’s like a 20 to 30% mortality rate in this first
1:07:22 several years afterwards.
1:07:26 So as you get older, you want to be strong and you want to be vibrant and you want to
1:07:30 have strong muscles because that’s going to keep you physically alive longer but at the
1:07:36 same time, you can overdo the protein to an extent where it maybe isn’t so good for you
1:07:40 because now you look at longevity genes and what these scientists are looking at.
1:07:44 So I think for me, when I look at protein, I look at getting sufficient amounts of protein
1:07:49 so that you feel strong, you feel healthy, definitely do weight training, resistance
1:07:53 training I think is so, so incredibly important as you get older, but at the same time, choose
1:07:55 your sources of protein very wisely.
1:07:58 Choose grass-fed beef, pastured pork and chicken.
1:08:04 You’re limiting the amount of these kind of factory farm types of meats and fish that
1:08:06 you know isn’t necessarily as good for you.
1:08:09 I’m totally agreeing with you on all these friends.
1:08:14 Fermented drinks is something that you bring up in your book, Younger for Life and I actually
1:08:18 eat yogurt every day and I have since I was younger and I’m like, maybe that is a factor
1:08:23 to why I look so young but why fermented foods?
1:08:25 So fermented foods are great for the microbiome.
1:08:30 So fermented foods are chock full of probiotics which are beneficial bacteria for your gut
1:08:33 and I mentioned earlier when we talked about gut health and skin health and there being
1:08:39 this direct correlation, you can take a daily probiotic and I do recommend that for everybody.
1:08:45 I recommend at least 3 billion colony forming units a day of a probiotic but you can ingest
1:08:48 that as well with drinks like kombucha.
1:08:51 One of my favorites is kimchi, you know I’m Korean so I love kimchi but eating these kind
1:08:55 of fermented foods and drinks I think are good because you can really help support the
1:09:00 microbiome and that’s something that I think it’s interesting Hala because 15 years ago
1:09:04 you’d ask doctors, oh what do you think about the microbiome and they would poo poo, traditional
1:09:07 physicians say, oh that’s all hogwash, what are you talking about?
1:09:12 And now we know that the microbiome is so incredibly important to the health of our
1:09:13 entire body.
1:09:17 We’re talking about skin but our whole body and so some of the best foods you can eat
1:09:19 are fermented foods.
1:09:26 Yeah, I feel like gut health in the last 10 years has just become so popular and well
1:09:31 known and shaping everything that we do even like brain health, I talk about it all the
1:09:33 time on my show.
1:09:41 So like I mentioned skin care fanatic, anastasia, fascia, beauty, have you heard of this girl?
1:09:42 I have, yes.
1:09:44 We’re all obsessed with this girl.
1:09:50 She does facial massages where basically she’s saying if you do these facial massages
1:09:53 you look young, she’s got really good results, we’re all hooked.
1:09:58 I spent $250 on her course, it expired, I never took it, I’ll spend another $250 to get
1:10:03 that course again because I want to know what she’s doing and I do learn a little bit from
1:10:06 her here and there and incorporate it and she seems really smart.
1:10:10 So what is your thoughts around these fascia, I don’t even know if I’m saying it right,
1:10:12 facial massages?
1:10:14 I think that there’s some good and some bad.
1:10:20 I think that doing facial massages is good for increasing circulation, it can help to
1:10:26 push out fluid and swelling, I think all of those, that is very, very good, but I also
1:10:32 think that physically it’s not going to change the structure of your face and so I do question
1:10:35 some of the results and whether those are some of the results when I see and I’m not
1:10:39 going to say specifically her, but in general when I see people say, oh, this is me before
1:10:45 face yoga and this is me after, look how snatched my jaw is, honestly, I can make my jaw look
1:10:49 snatched from the side literally by mewing, by lifting the tongue, my tongue up to the
1:10:53 roof of my mouth, take it before and after and people will be like, oh my gosh, look
1:10:56 how amazing that is, but it’s like, yeah, I’m just lifting the tongue up to the roof
1:10:57 of my mouth.
1:11:03 And so I think that there is definitely some short-term benefit for doing facial massage,
1:11:11 it’s relaxing once again, increases circulation, but when you’ve seen the actual physical structure
1:11:15 of the face like I have, I do a lot of facelifts, I lift the skin up to the face, I see the
1:11:20 facial muscles and the fat pads and all that, it makes zero sense to me that by just doing
1:11:24 a certain massage on the outside is going to physically change that.
1:11:27 It’s the same thing when you look at people who have what are called thread lifts where
1:11:31 these threads barbed sutures are placed under the skin and they claim it’s going to lift
1:11:36 everything up and yes, you may get a little temporary result, but it is not powerful enough
1:11:39 to actually change the architecture of your face.
1:11:44 So for example, some people have a jowl, which is fat that hangs down over their jawline,
1:11:47 and it’s a little fat pad and I, when I lift up the skin to a face, if I could see that
1:11:52 fat pad there, and sometimes what I’ll do is I will liposuction part of it away to reduce
1:11:53 the size of it.
1:11:58 Other people will try to suture it up higher and stuff, but it makes zero sense to me that
1:12:02 by massaging it, you could literally physically move it into a different position when there’s
1:12:07 so many fibrous connections and layers of the face and stuff like that.
1:12:11 Unfortunately, there’s a lot of information on social media that it sounds too good to
1:12:14 be true, but people believe it anyway.
1:12:18 I debunked a video recently where somebody said that fillers and we do fillers, but I’m
1:12:22 also one that’s about fillers, but in a very conservative manner where some guys says if
1:12:26 you get fillers in your lips, it can migrate all the way up to your forehead and then people
1:12:30 have taken it from their forehead and they pushed it back into their lips.
1:12:35 I don’t know what he’s talking about, but people believe this and it went viral.
1:12:40 Just think about it, just take a moment and think, “Can you actually move something from
1:12:41 your lips all the way to your forehead?”
1:12:46 There’s so many different things in the way, it makes no sense.
1:12:51 I think that’s where we have to think, with the facial massage, is that going to truly
1:12:54 get rid of facial fat by massaging it?
1:12:56 Are you going to cause fat to go away?
1:13:00 Are you going to take platysma muscle that has gotten droopy and excessive and make that
1:13:04 muscle suddenly shrink down in size?
1:13:07 It just doesn’t make sense when you really think about it.
1:13:11 There is some magical thinking, unfortunately, involved with some of these cases.
1:13:12 I don’t know.
1:13:15 I’m still a believer she does a good job.
1:13:19 I don’t want to say anything specifically about her because I don’t know her.
1:13:23 But in general, I think that there’s a lot out there where people make these claims.
1:13:27 For example, I saw this one video I debunked where a guy had a tattoo on his hand.
1:13:30 I said, “You want to know how to get rid of this tattoo?”
1:13:33 You take some sugar, and he just got that generic sugar, table sugar.
1:13:34 You put that on there.
1:13:38 You put a few drops of olive oil, and you rub it, and he rubs it, rubs it, and he goes
1:13:39 for five minutes.
1:13:44 Then afterwards, tattoo is gone, and he shows no tattoo there.
1:13:45 It went viral.
1:13:46 Oh my God.
1:13:50 It makes no sense because that pigment is in the dermis, it’s in the deeper part of
1:13:51 your skin.
1:13:56 The rubbing olive oil and sugar is not going to get rid of that, but people put makeup on
1:13:58 over it, and they try to … It’s silly.
1:13:59 Yeah.
1:14:00 There’s a lot of BS out there.
1:14:01 I agree.
1:14:02 Oh my gosh.
1:14:06 A couple last questions here on skincare.
1:14:12 Botox, now Botox has been going on for so long, and people are doing Botox in their
1:14:15 20s, their 30s.
1:14:20 I personally feel like Botox can make people look older, and that their skin gets very
1:14:24 thin-looking, and their eyebrows start to look very far apart, so I feel like people
1:14:26 really overdo it with Botox.
1:14:31 However, I’m not a plastic surgeon expert like you, so I’d love to get your perspective
1:14:32 on Botox.
1:14:36 Botox is probably the most popular cosmetic treatment in the history of the world.
1:14:38 We do a lot of Botox.
1:14:40 The first question people have is, “Is it safe?”
1:14:43 In my products, we’ve probably done 20,000 injections.
1:14:46 We’ve never had a major complication from it, so I think it’s good, but people can get
1:14:48 overdone by Botox.
1:14:51 I don’t think it’s going to thin your skin necessarily, but it can thin the muscles under
1:14:53 your skin.
1:14:54 Sometimes that’s a good thing.
1:14:57 When people have overgrowth of muscles, like the master muscles on the sides of your jaw,
1:15:01 you can cause those muscles to atrophy or to get thinner, and some people actually will
1:15:04 like that because it can thin the jaw a bit.
1:15:09 But I think really, in general, it’s a paralyzing agent, so it works well for the upper face,
1:15:11 so basically, crows feet on up, it can work really well for.
1:15:15 You’ve got to be very careful when you go below because it can also cause your face
1:15:17 to not move naturally.
1:15:20 You really want to use it in a conservative fashion, so I’m a big fan of it.
1:15:25 I get Botox myself done occasionally, but definitely, it’s something where the amount
1:15:26 is a big deal.
1:15:30 Yeah, and I’m not going to lie, I’ve done it a few times, I’ve done it a few times.
1:15:34 I just feel like the people that do it a lot, it can get a little crazy.
1:15:38 How do you feel about a jaw filler?
1:15:40 I do a little bit of jaw filler.
1:15:44 The issue with jaw filler, so the idea is that if you’ve got a real narrow jaw line,
1:15:49 I think jaw filler can be very helpful for some people to widen their jaw, and sometimes
1:15:53 by adding filler there, it can even simulate like your skin’s a little bit tighter because
1:15:55 it fills the area out a bit.
1:15:58 It’s not truly a lift as it’s more of a filling out.
1:16:01 The issue I have with jaw filler and why I encourage people to be very careful with
1:16:06 it is because we’ve got a certain blood vessel called the facial artery that comes along
1:16:10 the jaw line, and basically, it goes right underneath the jaw line, and then it curves
1:16:15 up right around where the jaw area is to go basically up to the nasal labial folder, your
1:16:17 smile lines up to your nose.
1:16:21 If somebody is not being real careful and they inject filler into that facial artery,
1:16:26 you can have major, major problems with what we call vascular occlusion.
1:16:29 That can cause areas of your skin to turn black.
1:16:33 It can cause people to even go blind, rare, rare, rare, but it can’t happen.
1:16:35 Just be very careful with fillers.
1:16:38 Botox, worst case scenario, you get a droopy eyelid or something like that, it goes away
1:16:39 after three or four months.
1:16:45 Other worst case scenario, you can go blind, you can necrosis or kill off parts of your
1:16:46 lip or your nose.
1:16:48 Just be very careful with filler.
1:16:51 Make sure it’s a hyaluronic acid filler if you get filler.
1:16:53 Don’t do any of these permanent or semi-permanent fillers.
1:16:56 There’s no antidotes to those, and they can be very dangerous.
1:16:59 Anthony, thank you so much for joining the show.
1:17:02 I end my show with two questions that I ask all my guests.
1:17:05 They don’t have to be related to the topic of the show.
1:17:09 The first one is, what is one piece of advice our young and profitors can do today to become
1:17:12 more profitable tomorrow?
1:17:17 Focus on one thing at a time, get that thing done, and then move on to the next thing.
1:17:21 Because once you get that source of income or whatever done, you’re going to start making
1:17:26 a profit off of that first, then go to the next thing versus having a bunch of projects
1:17:29 that are left undone where you’re making nothing off of them.
1:17:30 Love that advice.
1:17:33 What is your secret to profiting in life?
1:17:37 My secret to profiting in life is honestly thinking about other people, because in the
1:17:43 end, if you focus on the needs of other people, it will come back to you sometimes exponentially.
1:17:47 If you only focus on yourself, in the end, you’re going to end up alone.
1:17:50 Really focusing on the needs of others, it always works out in the end.
1:17:53 I do believe in karma, and I think what you put out there in the universe will come back
1:17:56 to you one way or another.
1:17:59 Where can our listeners learn about you and everything that you do?
1:18:00 Thank you.
1:18:04 I’ve got my book, Younger for Life, but I’ve got also my podcast, The Dr. Yoon Show, where
1:18:08 we cover all of these health topics that we’ve talked about in the podcast today.
1:18:10 Those are two great places to find me.
1:18:11 Amazing.
1:18:13 Thank you so much for your time.
1:18:15 Thank you, Hala.
1:18:21 Well, guys, I hope you loved that conversation as much as I did.
1:18:23 It was very entertaining for me.
1:18:28 Dr. Anthony Yoon is so inspiring, and I think that there’s so many people out there just
1:18:34 like him who are in a professional services job, who are just dying to be creative and
1:18:38 to share some of their wisdom with others in a fun way.
1:18:41 Anthony shows that even if you’re a busy surgeon, you can manage your time and your
1:18:46 schedule in a way that allows you to be an influencer and expert on the side and to make
1:18:48 money while doing it.
1:18:53 He dedicates every Friday for content creation, and he’s raised his profile so much that
1:18:56 he can now charge much more for his surgeries.
1:19:01 But Anthony’s goal is to help as many people as possible, and not just to operate on them.
1:19:04 And that makes him all the more credible and compelling.
1:19:09 I loved his concept of autojuvenation and tapping into our own body’s innate ability
1:19:11 to heal and rejuvenate.
1:19:16 You can look five to 10 years younger without any procedure or treatment.
1:19:20 And as Anthony put it, the younger you look, the longer you’ll live.
1:19:24 And quite frankly, the better you’ll do in business too, taking care of yourself and
1:19:26 looking your best really matters.
1:19:28 It just does.
1:19:30 And nowhere is that more apparent than our skin.
1:19:34 Our skin is that magic mirror that reveals how well we’re doing.
1:19:37 Not just on the outside, but on the inside as well.
1:19:41 And whether it’s red light therapy, wearing sunscreen, or switching from bar soap to a
1:19:45 facial cleanser, there’s some simple steps you can take to improve the health of your
1:19:49 skin and your body and improve your appearance in the process.
1:19:52 Thanks for listening to this episode of Young and Profiting.
1:19:56 If you listen, learn to profit it from this conversation with Dr. Anthony Yoon, then please
1:20:00 share this podcast with someone who wouldn’t want to learn how to look five or 10 years
1:20:01 younger.
1:20:05 And if you did enjoy this show and you learned something, then take a couple minutes to drop
1:20:08 us a review on Spotify or Apple podcasts.
1:20:11 Guys, I read these reviews every day.
1:20:13 They always make my day.
1:20:17 And if you enjoy this podcast, if you listen to it on your commute, if you listen to it
1:20:21 while you’re working out, if you listen to us every single week or every single day, let
1:20:25 us know how you feel about it, give us some feedback, let other people know how you feel
1:20:29 about the podcast so you can help us get more listeners.
1:20:33 And if you did enjoy the show and you learned something, then stop what you’re doing real
1:20:38 quick and drop us a five-star review on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen
1:20:39 to your podcast.
1:20:42 Guys, it is totally free to listen to this podcast.
1:20:48 You learn from it every day, every week, when you’re working out, when you’re driving or
1:20:51 however you tune into the show, you’re learning.
1:20:54 And the number one way to thank us is by dropping us a review.
1:20:55 Plus, I love to read them.
1:20:57 They make my day.
1:21:01 If you guys prefer to watch your podcast as videos, you can find us on YouTube.
1:21:06 You can also find me on Instagram @yappwithhalla or LinkedIn by searching my name.
1:21:07 It’s Hala Taha.
1:21:11 And before we go, I want to give a big shout out to my awesome Yap Media family.
1:21:17 Thank you so much for all that you guys do producing the show, booking the guests, preparing
1:21:21 the research, making the videos, writing the show notes.
1:21:23 You guys are just awesome.
1:21:24 Thank you for all that you do.
1:21:28 This is your host, Hala Taha, aka the podcast princess, signing off.
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