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0:01:12 So often we look at a person’s personality type and we think that tells us what kind
0:01:16 of job they should have, but Working Genius is what you do.
0:01:20 It actually allows us to avoid hiring people who are going to be miserable.
0:01:24 You’ve written in the past that it’s a mistake to think that A-level talent doesn’t need
0:01:26 to be managed.
0:01:29 Working Genius helps us understand how they might need to be managed, but the truth of
0:01:33 the matter is every person in the world benefits from management.
0:01:38 I don’t care if you’re running a $10 billion company and you’re managing the CMO.
0:01:40 Everybody needs to be managed.
0:01:45 The thing about a short meeting, it’s efficient, but it’s not necessarily effective.
0:01:47 Most organizations try to…
0:01:49 And that’s why people hate meetings.
0:02:13 Yeah, fam, welcome back to the show and today we are airing part two of my conversation with
0:02:15 Patrick Lenchoni.
0:02:19 We’re going to be talking all about working geniuses for teams.
0:02:24 Now, if you didn’t listen to part one of my episode with Patrick, I would go back now
0:02:25 and take a listen to that.
0:02:30 Part one of the episode is really the foundation of learning about working geniuses, working
0:02:33 competencies and working frustrations.
0:02:37 We go over the six different working geniuses and that part one episode is really focused
0:02:39 on the individual.
0:02:42 So how can we understand what our working geniuses are?
0:02:45 How can we understand what to do with our competencies and frustrations and how to
0:02:47 treat them?
0:02:52 How do all these different six core working geniuses work together to put on a project?
0:02:55 And we really focus on the individual with Patrick Lenchoni.
0:03:00 Now Patrick Lenchoni is an expert on team building and team efficiencies.
0:03:03 He wrote over 12 bestselling business books.
0:03:05 He’s one of the most famous business authors.
0:03:10 He has a consultancy group called the Table Group that helps companies improve their operations,
0:03:12 working culture and team efficiency.
0:03:17 So he knows all about how to have rockin’ teams, which is what we’re going to be talking
0:03:19 about today in part two.
0:03:21 Really focused on teams and organizations.
0:03:26 How do we roll out the working genius assessment to our teams?
0:03:29 How do we use that to identify gaps within our organization?
0:03:32 How do we use that to retain our employees better?
0:03:36 How do we use that to improve our meetings and productivity as a whole?
0:03:39 So I think you guys are going to learn a lot from this conversation.
0:03:45 Let’s jump into part two of my conversation with the amazing Patrick Lenchoni.
0:03:50 So I want to move on to more team effectiveness, productivity, talking about how we can roll
0:03:53 this out to our whole organization.
0:03:54 So let’s start there.
0:03:59 If we wanted to roll this out to our organization, what are the stages of actually doing that?
0:04:01 What should we think through?
0:04:03 We’re doing that more and more now.
0:04:09 The first thing is, and the good news about this is the results resonate with people so
0:04:12 quickly that there’s not a lot of organizing you have to do.
0:04:16 In other words, once a team, I think it’s good to do it in teams.
0:04:20 But we have organizations where everybody in the company does their working genius.
0:04:22 And suddenly people are, and they know what they are.
0:04:24 People remember what they are.
0:04:27 And so people are going around the office going, “Hey, could you come to this meeting?
0:04:28 Well, I’m not in your team.”
0:04:30 I know, but if you come to them, we really need some galvanizing.
0:04:31 We don’t have anybody on our team that does that.
0:04:35 So first of all, just get as many people in your organization to know what they are.
0:04:41 The language, the vocabulary, and the way people work together is going to change.
0:04:42 But then do the team map.
0:04:47 The team map is a piece of paper that shows you in all six geniuses where you have people
0:04:49 with geniuses or frustrations.
0:04:51 And so you can see the gaps.
0:04:53 And right away, literally, you look at it.
0:04:59 I had a team I worked with, Hala, and it was a technology company, but a big one.
0:05:03 And they had nobody on the executive team with invention, none, nobody.
0:05:04 And it was a technology company.
0:05:06 Wow, that’s terrible.
0:05:07 And they were frustrated.
0:05:09 For 10 years, they hadn’t had a new idea.
0:05:11 They were using their old products.
0:05:13 And they were like, “Why can’t we come up with a new product?”
0:05:16 Well, we looked at their type and it’s because they were all about implementation.
0:05:17 They were all like, “Well, we got to make our numbers.
0:05:19 We got to have our tight schedule.”
0:05:23 And nobody there liked to sit back and ask questions and come up with new ideas, except
0:05:25 for one guy on the team.
0:05:26 And he was their lawyer.
0:05:30 And they were like, “Why don’t you take over new technology acquisition?”
0:05:32 He’s like, “Well, I’m the chief legal counsel.”
0:05:33 And they’re like, “Yeah, but you like it, don’t you?
0:05:34 And you’re good at this.”
0:05:35 And he’s like, “I love it.
0:05:37 I would love to do that.”
0:05:39 Two years later, he was no longer even in the legal department.
0:05:41 He was running that part of their business.
0:05:45 So the answer to your question about how do you roll this out, get people to do this and
0:05:49 talk about it on their teams and they are going to solve problems.
0:05:52 Just looking at it and going, “Well, hell, I could do that.
0:05:53 I love that.”
0:05:55 And somebody else is going to go, “You love that?
0:05:56 Why?
0:05:57 I hate it.”
0:05:58 And they’re like, “Well, because I’m this.”
0:06:01 And they’re going to go, “Well, let’s change the way we’re getting this done.”
0:06:04 So there’s not a lot to do there, but there is this.
0:06:10 We have a program, which we call certification, which is you can take one person in an organization
0:06:13 and make them an expert in this in two days.
0:06:16 We have this training thing where you can do it online, it’s virtual.
0:06:19 And in two days, you can become an expert and then you can be the consultant to your organization
0:06:21 to help them figure out how to do this.
0:06:22 I love that.
0:06:24 We’ve had like 3,000 people get certified already.
0:06:26 Companies will say, “We’re sending three of our people through certification and they’re
0:06:29 going to teach everybody in the organization how to use this.”
0:06:33 I’m definitely rolling this out to my organization, because first of all, it’s so cost effective.
0:06:39 It’s $25, not expensive, and the amount of money that you’ll save from productivity and
0:06:42 not having to hire, it’s just a game changer.
0:06:47 And even just the activity itself, I feel is going to make my employees happy and feel
0:06:49 like we care about them.
0:06:54 And I’m just going to roll it out as an activity that we do across the company, and then everybody
0:07:00 has new language, which creates a deeper bond, because everyone’s talking about, “Are you
0:07:01 an innovator?
0:07:02 Do you have tenacity?”
0:07:06 It’s something else to bond everybody together as well.
0:07:10 And it’s not a judgment thing, because there are some things that people go, “I don’t want
0:07:11 to be put into a box.
0:07:12 I don’t want to be limited.”
0:07:16 They don’t respond to this like that very much at all, because it’s about joy and energy.
0:07:19 And everybody wants to be able to share it to people, “Hey, I really love doing this,
0:07:21 so if you could let me do this more, I’d be really happy.”
0:07:24 They don’t feel like they’re being judged, it’s really about revealing to other people
0:07:27 what their favorite things are.
0:07:33 So it doesn’t feel like any people get condemned, it feels like it’s people feeling understood.
0:07:38 The other thing is that I want to implement it as part of the hiring process.
0:07:40 Oh, I got to tell you a story.
0:07:45 So in hiring, there’s certain legal limitations about using assessments.
0:07:46 Oh, really?
0:07:49 Yeah, but it’s not as bad as people think.
0:07:53 But we actually had a lawyer come to our office, I would work with him and his team.
0:07:54 I didn’t know this.
0:07:59 He was the guy that argued the case before the Texas Supreme Court to not let them use
0:08:02 assessments in hiring, because they thought it could be biased and all those other things.
0:08:03 So he hated assessments.
0:08:05 I did not know this.
0:08:07 We did working genius with him and his team.
0:08:11 At the end of two days, I found out that he was that guy.
0:08:17 And he goes, “I think this one works,” because he was actually giving people feedback and
0:08:21 he goes, “I can’t believe how everybody is resonating with this,” and it makes sense
0:08:22 to me.
0:08:26 And I’m actually now talking to them using the working genius.
0:08:31 Because it’s related to work itself, it actually allows us to avoid hiring people who are going
0:08:35 to be miserable or hiring somebody and putting them in the wrong job.
0:08:41 So we’re developing, it’s almost done, an AI tool where you could type in one paragraph
0:08:42 job description.
0:08:46 We want this person to do this and this and this and this, and it’ll spit back to you the
0:08:52 most likely working geniuses that will help find the person that would do that.
0:08:53 And you know who loves it?
0:08:56 It’s employees who are getting hired and they’re like, “I don’t want a job I’m going to hate.”
0:08:57 Exactly.
0:09:02 So it’s a great matchmaking tool and we use it when we talk to people.
0:09:07 You can’t necessarily force people to, but a lot of staffing companies, they’re going
0:09:09 to get their candidates all to do it.
0:09:11 They’re staffing companies to do this now.
0:09:14 And then when their clients call and say, “Hey, we need somebody to do this job,” they look
0:09:17 at their working genius and they go, “Hey, I think this job would be great for you.”
0:09:19 Or, “I think I have a person who would love this.”
0:09:25 It’s taking staffing and hiring from a crapshoot where 50% of the time a person is like, “I
0:09:29 don’t know why I took this job,” to one where we’re getting a lot better at knowing who’s
0:09:31 going to succeed and who’s not.
0:09:34 I’m sort of disappointed because I was so excited that I was like, “Okay, I’m just going
0:09:38 to make this mandatory because, for example, I’m looking for an EA and I need to make sure
0:09:41 they can create and I need to make sure they have tenacity.
0:09:45 I need those two things, innovation and tenacity.”
0:09:46 I love it.
0:09:51 So, an EA is a perfect job because one EA is not the same as another.
0:09:54 Hey, one CEO is not the same as another, depends on what kind of company is.
0:09:56 So you’re looking for an EA.
0:10:00 What you can say to them is, “Hey, I would love for you to take this if you want to.
0:10:01 It’ll help you.
0:10:02 It’s a gift.
0:10:03 Here’s a gift for you to do this.”
0:10:07 Then I’m just going to describe what I want.
0:10:11 And if you think that it’s a good match for you, then that’s fantastic.
0:10:12 We’ll talk about that.
0:10:16 But oftentimes it’s the candidate who will look at it and go, “Oh, no, please don’t hire
0:10:17 me for this job.
0:10:18 This is going to be miserable for me.”
0:10:23 Because for you, you’re saying you want somebody with tenacity and you said somebody who can
0:10:24 create.
0:10:25 Yeah.
0:10:28 Invention and they’ve got to get stuff done.
0:10:29 Okay.
0:10:32 So that’s called the methodical architect.
0:10:37 If I had an administrative assistant and we’re hiring one for me right now because I’m moving
0:10:40 to a new place, I need a new one.
0:10:44 And I need a DT, which is discernment and tenacity.
0:10:45 You know why?
0:10:49 Because I will not give them detailed job descriptions.
0:10:51 They’re going to figure out how to help me.
0:10:56 Now, if I were a different personality as a CEO, I would tell somebody what to do it.
0:10:59 I might want them to be an ET, which is to do whatever I tell you.
0:11:03 But I’m going to say to them, “Could you figure out what you think I need?”
0:11:04 Because I don’t know.
0:11:05 And that’s really different.
0:11:09 And in your case, because of the work you do, you want somebody who’s actually creative.
0:11:12 Now, there’s a lot of people that don’t want an EA that has that.
0:11:17 So it’s not so much about every job with that title needs the same thing.
0:11:20 Frankly, one person’s executive assistant is different than another’s.
0:11:22 One person’s head of marketing is different.
0:11:24 People talk about this like, “What would be a good head of marketing?”
0:11:25 And I’m like, “I don’t know.
0:11:28 Do you want somebody who’s lead generation and closes deals or do you want somebody that’s
0:11:32 kind of with a new brand strategy and understands the market from a strategic standpoint?”
0:11:34 Those are two different roles.
0:11:38 Do you know how often, and you know, the CEOs hire a head of marketing and they don’t
0:11:39 even know what their working geniuses are?
0:11:41 And they say, “Well, they were good at marketing before.
0:11:44 Yeah, but they did a totally different job.”
0:11:49 So I think working genius, I don’t know how to make it mandatory for a candidate, but
0:11:53 usually you can say to the candidate, “If you want to figure out what you are, I’ll
0:11:55 tell you what we want.”
0:11:59 And then you can convince me that you think you could do that.
0:12:02 Let’s hold that thought and take a quick break with our sponsors.
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0:17:01 Another thing with teams is that you say that there’s sometimes genius gaps.
0:17:05 Can you talk to us about some of the common genius gaps and how we can actually figure
0:17:07 out if we have any gaps in our organization?
0:17:08 Yeah.
0:17:13 If there’s an organization that has no T, right, that you look like there’s five people
0:17:17 working on it and nobody has tenacity, they’re like, how come we have these great ideas?
0:17:21 We get motivated and then they never seem to get implemented or you only have one T
0:17:25 on your team and you’re killing her or you’re killing him because every time you get to
0:17:29 the last stage, we’re going to that person going, okay, can you finish this?
0:17:32 And the finishing stage often takes a long time and we’re crushing that person.
0:17:37 I did an organization once where I looked and they had like 10 people startup and one
0:17:40 person on the team had tenacity.
0:17:41 And I think her name was Laura.
0:17:43 And I said, hey, Laura, I just met them for the first time.
0:17:46 Do you ever think you’re going to get crushed and does everybody else think she might quit
0:17:47 because we make her do too much?
0:17:49 And they were like, oh my gosh, how did you know?
0:17:52 Because she’s the only one that finishes.
0:17:58 And they’re like, oh no, we got to hire more finishers or actually rethink about how we
0:18:00 do these things.
0:18:05 Or if you’re a company that has no W and I, you might be the most organized, efficient
0:18:10 company in the world, but nobody’s actually saying, maybe we need a new product or maybe
0:18:12 our customers aren’t happy.
0:18:16 So you’re not identifying the opportunities.
0:18:20 So any gap in the six things, if there’s an egregious gap, causes problems.
0:18:25 If there’s no enablement, I had an organization that I worked with that served churches.
0:18:28 So they’re very kind, but nobody had enablement.
0:18:32 And they were like, how come nobody helps?
0:18:33 Shouldn’t we be helpers?
0:18:34 We work with churches.
0:18:36 It’s like, oh, nobody has the genius of enablement.
0:18:39 Nobody comes along and says, yeah, I’ll volunteer to do that for you.
0:18:44 And so any gap is going to show up and usually teams look at the gap on the thing and in
0:18:47 five minutes they’re like, oh yeah, this is why that project failed or this is why we
0:18:50 were good at this thing, but why we’re not good at this thing.
0:18:51 So it’s pretty predictable.
0:18:54 It’s pretty self-explanatory.
0:18:58 And you say that the best way to identify these is by visualizing everything with the
0:19:00 team maps.
0:19:02 What’s that process like?
0:19:07 Everybody takes their assessment on an account and then they just say print the team map.
0:19:11 The piece of paper comes out and it says wonder and it shows the list of people that have
0:19:14 it as a genius and the list of the people that have it as a frustration.
0:19:16 And if there’s none, then they all have it as a thing in the middle.
0:19:17 It’s very easy to see.
0:19:18 And there’s green and red.
0:19:23 So you look at this thing and you go, oh my gosh, we have no green in discernment.
0:19:26 Or we have a whole bunch of reds.
0:19:32 In my organization, we had a whole bunch of reds in invention and I was the only green.
0:19:37 And so not only was I the only inventor, but the other people in my organization really
0:19:40 hated having to come up with new ideas.
0:19:42 And what that told us is two things.
0:19:47 One, we can’t be pulling me out of invention too much because there’s nobody else that’s
0:19:48 going to fill that gap.
0:19:52 And when we hired the next person, it would be sure to be nice if they had invention as
0:19:55 a genius or at least certainly as a competency.
0:19:59 So there was a little bit more of that in the atmosphere on the team.
0:20:02 Yeah, it reminds me of my organization so much.
0:20:08 I started with a social agency, super innovative, always going viral.
0:20:11 And then I launched my network, Kate’s running my agency.
0:20:15 She’s more of enablement, tenacity, and I’m always just, we’re using the same strategies
0:20:16 that I did.
0:20:20 And then I’m trying to figure out the new strategies and I’m getting mad at her because
0:20:26 I’m like, you’re not inventing, but now I realize that’s not what she’s good at.
0:20:29 I need to get somebody else that’s going to invent.
0:20:31 How great is that?
0:20:35 Because what happens is then people will say things like, so I don’t have enablement and
0:20:36 tenacity.
0:20:41 And it’s very easy for people to think that I or for me to think about myself that I’m
0:20:42 lazy.
0:20:46 Now, I work my ass off, but I’ll go like, I guess I’m kind of lazy because I don’t have
0:20:48 an enablement and tenacity.
0:20:52 It’s like, well, I’m just not an implementer, but I’ll work really hard in the things that
0:20:53 I do.
0:20:57 Or a person that doesn’t have invention, we can go, they’re not very smart.
0:20:58 And they’re like, what do you mean?
0:21:00 They’re like, well, gosh, I come up with these ideas.
0:21:01 Can’t they come up with an idea?
0:21:03 No, it’s just a different genius.
0:21:05 They’re smart, but in the thing that they do.
0:21:07 So it avoids judgmentalism.
0:21:12 Now, let me tell you, if a person is really lazy, you know, I have a book called The Ideal
0:21:16 Team Player and it’s about humble, hungry, smart, the three values of a good team player.
0:21:18 There are people that aren’t hungry.
0:21:19 They don’t work hard.
0:21:24 So there are people that are slackers and, yeah, they deserve to be recognized as such,
0:21:26 but that’s not about their skill set.
0:21:28 It’s about maybe they’re just not motivated.
0:21:29 Maybe they never learned how to work hard.
0:21:31 Maybe they don’t really care that much.
0:21:35 I’m not trying to say that there aren’t things that you should let somebody go from your
0:21:36 organization for.
0:21:38 There are.
0:21:43 But if it’s just that they’re wired differently, man, that’s a tragedy when we lose good people
0:21:46 because they’re just wired differently and we attribute it to something else.
0:21:50 I totally agree, and it’s really hard to hire people and it wastes a lot of time.
0:21:55 So if you could just plug people and switch roles and lateral moves, that’s going to save
0:21:57 a lot of money and time.
0:21:58 Yeah.
0:22:01 I really think in terms of productivity, if you have four people and you have them in
0:22:05 roles and you didn’t know why and you figure out they’re working genius and you make adjustments,
0:22:07 you’re going to save two hires.
0:22:10 There was a saying years ago, I remember when I first got out of school and they said, if
0:22:13 you have five engineers working on a project and it’s not getting done, get rid of two of
0:22:14 them.
0:22:17 What they meant is sometimes it’s just that there’s too many.
0:22:21 But I actually think when you tap in, if you have five engineers working on a team and you
0:22:25 actually help them understand their geniuses, they’re going to get the work of nine done.
0:22:26 Yeah.
0:22:28 I can’t wait to implement this.
0:22:30 Would you please let me know how that goes?
0:22:33 I can’t wait to hear what you guys learned.
0:22:38 It is so fun to get stories back from people who have rebirthed an employee by helping them
0:22:39 figure out their thing.
0:22:40 Of course.
0:22:44 I’m excited hiring the wrong person or letting go of the wrong.
0:22:46 I’d love to hear those stories.
0:22:47 Of course.
0:22:48 I’d love to tell you about it.
0:22:49 I’m very excited.
0:22:54 In terms of how you roll it out to an organization, is it a different process or are we still
0:22:58 going and taking the assessment individually or are we signing up our organization so we
0:23:00 can see all the results?
0:23:02 If you go on there, it’s very clear.
0:23:06 I know that because people do it all the time and I can also tell you, I don’t know.
0:23:08 As the inventor of this, I’m amazed.
0:23:12 I’ll be in some place and I’ll say, “Hey, you should take the assessment,” and then
0:23:15 I’ll go, “I have to find somebody that can get you on to do that because I don’t even
0:23:16 know how to do it.”
0:23:17 It’s very simple.
0:23:20 When you go on it and everybody fills it out, it’s just one person signs them all up and
0:23:22 they put it in the same account.
0:23:23 Got it.
0:23:28 Youngandprofiting.co/work, you guys can take the assessment individually or you can sign
0:23:29 up your organization.
0:23:30 We’ll make sure of it.
0:23:31 Call us if you want.
0:23:36 We’re at tablegroup.com and you can find us on the internet and you can call us and we’ll
0:23:37 walk you through it.
0:23:38 Okay, perfect.
0:23:42 Let’s get into some more tactical stuff because I know you’re really good about having good
0:23:43 meetings.
0:23:48 We talked about Zoom, just some productivity, team management type of stuff.
0:23:52 You’ve written in the past that it’s a mistake to think that A-level talent doesn’t need
0:23:54 to be managed.
0:23:58 What do we need to know about how much to manage someone and especially maybe in the
0:24:00 context of working geniuses?
0:24:04 I love that you asked in terms of working genius because I’ve been saying this for years,
0:24:08 that working genius helps us understand how they might need to be managed because not
0:24:10 everybody’s the same.
0:24:15 One of the things I find in organizations is a lot of CEOs, one of the things they don’t
0:24:18 do is they don’t manage their direct reports.
0:24:20 What they do is they say, “Well, I’m a CEO now and this person’s on my leadership team
0:24:22 so I shouldn’t have to manage them.
0:24:23 They’re an adult.”
0:24:28 Or they think that managing is micromanaging and so they say, “Well, I don’t want to micromanage
0:24:29 them.
0:24:30 I trust them.”
0:24:34 Another of the matter is every person in the world benefits from management and that’s
0:24:40 why being a CEO is so dang hard because it is unmanaged and a board does not manage a
0:24:41 CEO.
0:24:45 Oftentimes, boards need to be kind of humored and one of the hardest things about being the
0:24:49 CEO of an organization, it’s lonely and there really is no guidance.
0:24:55 You have to seek out advice but there’s nobody that says, “I own this and I will give you
0:24:56 direction.”
0:24:59 The buck stops with you when you’re the CEO so there’s something naked about that role
0:25:03 and it’s why it’s a very lonely and hard job.
0:25:08 But when leaders say, and I fall into this category too, I don’t like to manage people
0:25:11 by objectives and details and all these things.
0:25:18 Because I’m an ID, I hire people and I go, “Hey, I hired a guy recently who has ETs,
0:25:20 all implementation.”
0:25:23 But I said to him, “Hey, why don’t you just figure out what your job scope should be and
0:25:27 you tell me what success looks like and you tell me what your job should look like.
0:25:29 I want you to figure it out on your own.”
0:25:34 And he was mortified because that’s my ideal job by the way.
0:25:39 And he’s like, “I want measurables, I want structure, I want expectations set for me.”
0:25:43 And I realized I can’t manage him the way I would want to be managed.
0:25:50 I have to manage him to make him the best that he can be and too often CEOs abdicate
0:25:51 responsibility.
0:25:55 They don’t delegate and they don’t, I say at least be a good macro manager.
0:26:00 Know what they’re working on, know if they’re doing well, check in with them, provide what
0:26:06 they need based on their working genius and take responsibility for being their manager.
0:26:10 And I don’t care if you’re running a $10 billion company and you’re managing the CMO or if
0:26:15 you’re an entrepreneur and you have four employees, everybody needs to be managed.
0:26:18 It doesn’t mean that there’s a specific system for it, it doesn’t mean you’re checking in
0:26:20 every day on their deliverables.
0:26:24 It’s less about efficiency and it’s more about effectiveness.
0:26:29 And so even if you don’t necessarily like doing it, do it and do it for them based on
0:26:30 what they need.
0:26:31 Yeah.
0:26:36 Even just taking this assessment made me realize, even though I have employees that haven’t
0:26:40 taken it, I know what they are now and how I need to manage them.
0:26:41 Yeah.
0:26:43 It’s just so clear, it’s really clear.
0:26:45 And you know what you’re going to do with them?
0:26:51 You’re naturally going to go by their office and brainstorm and inspire them.
0:26:52 You’ll do that.
0:26:54 I don’t have to tell you to do that.
0:26:59 But what you might not do is go, “Okay, do you have enough information about whether
0:27:01 you’re succeeding or not?”
0:27:02 Exactly.
0:27:06 The management, the enablement stuff, how can I be a better enablement?
0:27:07 It’s chewing glass for me.
0:27:10 I don’t like it, but I have to do it.
0:27:11 You know what’s great, Hala?
0:27:13 When you go to them and you go, “Hey, you know me.
0:27:14 I’m an IG, by the way.
0:27:16 I want you to see this.”
0:27:17 And they’re going to go, “Of course you are.
0:27:18 That makes sense.”
0:27:20 But there’s things you need that I don’t do naturally.
0:27:24 So just know, though, I’m not saying that I don’t want to do them.
0:27:26 Just know that it’s not easy for me.
0:27:30 And if you come to me and say, “Hey, I need more clarity from you on something,” I’m
0:27:31 not going to take that as a complaint.
0:27:35 I’m going to take that as a compliment that you know I’m not good at it and you need to
0:27:36 provoke me to do it.
0:27:40 And that’ll give them permission to do it without going, “Hala, are you going to get
0:27:42 more specific with us?”
0:27:45 And you’re going to go, “Not naturally I won’t, but if you ask me to, I will.”
0:27:47 So they can coach you.
0:27:50 Your employees will be your best management coaches when you give them the language and
0:27:52 the permission to do that.
0:27:56 We’ll be right back after a quick break from our sponsors.
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0:32:14 So something that we agree upon is to have a successful meeting.
0:32:16 It doesn’t have to be short.
0:32:17 I’ve heard that.
0:32:22 And this is something that me and my business partner, Jason, disagree upon all the time,
0:32:23 where he just wants to have short, short meetings.
0:32:27 And I’m like, we had a short meeting, but what was accomplished?
0:32:28 We don’t know what to do.
0:32:29 We need to talk about it.
0:32:31 It’s not about just having short meetings.
0:32:35 We need to know what to do and have clarity, right?
0:32:39 So I’d love for you to just break down some of your best tips in terms of having good
0:32:40 meetings.
0:32:43 And also the fact that a lot of people tuning in right now are having Zoom meetings.
0:32:44 Let’s be honest.
0:32:45 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:32:46 Most of the meetings are Zoom.
0:32:48 So let’s talk about that.
0:32:52 And the hardest thing about Zoom meetings, Hala, is that, first of all, we learned this at
0:32:53 the beginning of COVID.
0:32:58 I just saw this movie called Hot Fuzz, and there’s this where they go, this shit just
0:32:59 got real.
0:33:00 You know, it’s like a cop movie.
0:33:02 And that was from Bad Boys or something like that.
0:33:08 But I remember when COVID started, when we were doing our third Zoom meeting, and I finally
0:33:13 provoked real conflict, and we said, I think this shit just got real because too often
0:33:16 on Zoom, it’s harder to go there because you’re not in the same room.
0:33:19 And after the meeting’s over, you’re not going to be able to recover and walk over to the
0:33:21 kitchen and talk to them about it.
0:33:26 So sometimes we don’t go deep and get messy during Zoom meetings the way we need to.
0:33:30 So that’s the thing I would say, first of all, is when we’re doing the stuff on Zoom,
0:33:34 we’ve got to get to that place where we’re being fully human, and it’s harder when it’s
0:33:39 two-dimensional and there’s not follow-up, and we don’t have incidental time.
0:33:41 So we need to do that.
0:33:45 But the other thing is, I would love to know what your partner’s working genius is, because
0:33:51 the thing about a short meeting, it’s efficient, but it’s not necessarily effective.
0:33:54 And I’m a believer in effectiveness over efficiency, okay?
0:33:59 And so sometimes a meeting wanders, but it needed to, and sometimes it takes 45 minutes
0:34:04 in a meeting before you finally realize, oh my gosh, we were talking about the wrong thing.
0:34:07 When a person’s sitting in that meeting going, checking their watch and going, well, I have
0:34:12 another meeting to go to, and I have real work to do, here’s how to help a person understand
0:34:13 that.
0:34:16 There’s four different kinds of meetings that a leadership team has to have, and you and
0:34:18 your partner have to have.
0:34:20 There’s four, and you can’t do them simultaneously.
0:34:22 When we do them simultaneously, they see it doesn’t work.
0:34:26 I call that meeting stew, where we toss out every ingredient in the cupboard into one
0:34:29 pot and stir it up and it just tastes bad.
0:34:32 And the four different kinds of meetings that need to be separated are, one is what I call
0:34:35 a check-in, a daily check-in.
0:34:37 And that’s five to 10 minutes, like what are you doing today?
0:34:38 What are you doing today?
0:34:39 Okay, great.
0:34:40 That’s great.
0:34:41 Okay, oh, I didn’t know you were going to be doing that.
0:34:42 Tell Fred I said hi.
0:34:43 Can you ask him about this thing?
0:34:44 Okay, I can take that off my list.
0:34:48 Totally administrative check-in, don’t sit down just every day.
0:34:52 This is the me saying to my wife, hey, who’s picking the kids up from school, what time
0:34:53 you coming home?
0:34:54 Here’s how I got this meeting today.
0:34:55 Okay, great.
0:34:58 The second meeting is called your weekly tactical, if you do it weekly.
0:35:01 And this is the running the business meeting where you sit down and you go, okay, these
0:35:02 are our goals.
0:35:03 Here’s how we’re doing.
0:35:06 Do we need to solve any near-term problems?
0:35:08 This one’s green, this one’s yellow, this one’s red.
0:35:11 Alan Mulally who ran Ford did it that way too, green, yellow and red.
0:35:12 We do that at our company too.
0:35:13 How are we doing?
0:35:15 These are our five big things we’re working on.
0:35:16 How are they going?
0:35:17 What do we need to do?
0:35:19 It’s probably an hour, maybe 90 minutes.
0:35:22 It’s pretty tactical and it’s focused on moving the ball forward.
0:35:26 The problem is there’s a third meeting and we usually combine it with the second meeting.
0:35:29 And we call this the strategic topical meeting.
0:35:33 This is like there’s some big new initiative or idea or problem.
0:35:38 And it’s really interesting and it’s really urgent.
0:35:42 And so we try to talk about it in the same breath where we’re going through our goals
0:35:44 and we never give it enough time.
0:35:48 This is the meeting where we need to go into a room, clear out two hours and say we have
0:35:52 a competitive threat or we have this new product idea or this new partnership.
0:35:55 Like you talked to me before about there’s new partnerships you’re developing.
0:35:58 You don’t have that during your regular weekly meeting.
0:36:02 Have a separate meeting and all we’re going to talk about is that partnership.
0:36:07 And go in there, roll up your sleeves, grab some food, get a whiteboard and argue and
0:36:10 debate and dream and do this.
0:36:13 That’s what people in business school call a case study.
0:36:16 It’s the most fun you can ever have.
0:36:20 And yet we kill that fun by having it in 10 minute increments in between going through
0:36:22 our checklists.
0:36:24 It robs our meetings.
0:36:26 It makes the tactical meetings confusing.
0:36:30 It makes the strategic meetings far too limited.
0:36:34 And when the leaders of an organization do that, they really lose their way.
0:36:39 So when somebody says, let’s have a short meeting, I say, yeah, make your daily check-in
0:36:40 short.
0:36:45 Hey, maybe make your weekly tactical fairly short, but never cut off a conversation that
0:36:49 needs to be explored and worked through and it’s messy.
0:36:52 And that’s the biggest problem I see in organizations, they combine their strategic conversations
0:36:57 and their tactical ones in the same meeting and it’s never good for anybody.
0:37:00 The fourth kind of meeting, I think it’s once a quarter, you should probably do it.
0:37:03 And maybe it takes two hours, maybe it takes a half a day.
0:37:06 And that’s just the quarterly check-in where you just get out of the office, you take a
0:37:09 breath and you say, is this working?
0:37:12 That’s probably a WI meeting where you just step back and go, is there anything we’re
0:37:14 not seeing?
0:37:15 What’s going on in the market?
0:37:18 How are we doing as a team behaviorally?
0:37:20 You just need to do that every once in a while.
0:37:25 Those four kinds of meetings, most organizations try to have all four in one meeting and they
0:37:29 call it their weekly meeting and that’s why people hate meetings.
0:37:33 I’m actually really proud of my company because we do all four.
0:37:34 You do?
0:37:35 We do all four.
0:37:38 So we call each other scrappy hustlers, that’s our name.
0:37:39 I love it.
0:37:41 And every morning we do a hustler huddle.
0:37:45 I do it with my executive team, I do it with my sales and marketing team 15 minutes.
0:37:46 What are we grateful for?
0:37:47 What are we working on?
0:37:49 Are there any blockers?
0:37:51 How do you feel now?
0:37:55 Every single morning, we do something called G90s where we talk for 90 minutes every week.
0:38:00 Me and my executive team about all of our problems called G90.
0:38:05 Then we do a monthly strategic meeting to talk about any strategies and then we do a
0:38:08 quarterly planning, which is the ideation stuff.
0:38:09 Wow.
0:38:11 So I feel like we’re really on track here.
0:38:12 You got it.
0:38:14 That is crazy.
0:38:18 Because you know that people have different contexts when they go into those meetings
0:38:19 and you can’t do them all together.
0:38:20 Good for you.
0:38:21 Yeah.
0:38:22 No wonder we’re doing so great.
0:38:23 Seriously.
0:38:24 Seriously.
0:38:25 Meetings are key.
0:38:27 I had such a great conversation with you.
0:38:29 I loved learning about the working genius.
0:38:33 I loved understanding how this is going to impact our teams.
0:38:37 I end my show with two questions that I ask all of my guests.
0:38:41 You can just think of this as not having to do with the topic necessarily, just whatever
0:38:43 comes from your heart.
0:38:48 The first one is what is one actionable thing our young and profitors can do today to become
0:38:50 more profiting tomorrow?
0:38:51 Wow.
0:38:53 I want to give a thoughtful answer to that.
0:38:58 I think that one of the things that people don’t do when they’re young is get very clear
0:39:04 about who they are and what their personal values are and we’re too opportunistic and
0:39:08 kind of reacting to whatever’s going on and actually sit down and write down this is the
0:39:10 person I want to be and this is what I want to do.
0:39:11 And it’s so crazy.
0:39:15 It’s so simple, but they say if you don’t know where you’re going, all roads lead there
0:39:17 or no road is right.
0:39:20 And so I just think people need to be a little clear about, yeah, this is what I’d kind of
0:39:23 like to do and who I’d like to be.
0:39:25 That contextualizes everything else.
0:39:27 So that’s a very general thing, but it’s so simple.
0:39:30 And most people are like, yeah, I haven’t really done that.
0:39:31 Yeah.
0:39:35 So actually step back and think about who you want to be in the future, your future you.
0:39:37 What do you want to grow into?
0:39:38 Yeah.
0:39:39 Absolutely.
0:39:44 What would you say is your secret to profiting in life and this can go beyond business?
0:39:45 Two things.
0:39:46 It’s healing.
0:39:49 It’s identifying the things that happened to me when I was young that I thought were
0:39:53 my superpowers, but they were actually wounds because I was working out of those.
0:39:58 And then every day I pray, I wake up and I pray, I’m Catholic Christian, I listen to
0:40:03 some Bible readings and I pray and that is all the difference between waking up and feeling
0:40:08 like scattered and lost and feeling like, oh yeah, yeah, everything’s good.
0:40:11 Just to dig deep on that just a bit.
0:40:14 Is that sort of a gratitude practice that you have?
0:40:18 Like what do you feel like that does to set the foundation for your day and how can people
0:40:19 mimic that?
0:40:20 Well, I think it’s everything.
0:40:21 It’s interesting that you asked that.
0:40:22 I have this app.
0:40:23 It’s called Amen.
0:40:27 It goes through the readings of the day, which is like seven minutes, eight minutes of the
0:40:31 readings, Old Testament, maybe Psalms in the gospel.
0:40:33 And then it asks you a series of questions.
0:40:37 And I think in those questions, it kind of gets at the four areas of prayer, which is
0:40:43 gratitude, what you’re grateful for, petition, what you want, what you need, praise, which
0:40:44 is God, you’re good.
0:40:45 This is great.
0:40:48 And then sorrow, hey, I want to be better and I’m sorry I did these things.
0:40:52 I think it touches on all four of those kinds of prayer.
0:40:53 Gratitude is the thing I need to work on the most.
0:40:58 I grew up, every time I accomplished something, I would go like, okay, what’s next?
0:41:01 And I never felt safe just going, oh, that was wonderful.
0:41:02 Thank you.
0:41:03 That’s great.
0:41:05 So gratitude is a deficiency area for me.
0:41:06 And I learned that from John Gordon.
0:41:07 I don’t know if you know who John Gordon is.
0:41:08 Yes.
0:41:09 So I had him on the show.
0:41:10 Yep.
0:41:12 Oh, he’s like one of my favorite human beings, my good dear friend.
0:41:14 And the gratitude thing is so critical.
0:41:20 Michael Jervis came on the show and he taught me this morning ritual where he says before
0:41:24 he even gets out of the covers, the first thing he does is what are three things I’m
0:41:25 grateful for.
0:41:26 Wow.
0:41:27 Before you get out of the covers.
0:41:30 So now every morning, before I even wake up, when I’m laying in my bed, before I get
0:41:33 out of bed, I just say, what am I grateful for?
0:41:34 And then I get up.
0:41:35 And it just helps a little bit.
0:41:39 Especially if I remember to do it, it’s always a better day.
0:41:40 That’s great.
0:41:41 I’ll remember that.
0:41:42 That’s fantastic.
0:41:46 Patrick, where can everybody learn more about you and everything that you do?
0:41:47 My company is called The Table Group.
0:41:51 So if you go to tablegroup.com, you can find us there.
0:41:54 The Working Genius stuff is at workinggenius.com.
0:41:56 They can get to that through your site.
0:41:58 You know, there’s one thing I have that I’ve started recently.
0:42:04 I do a morning three-minute devotional for professionals who are followers of Jesus.
0:42:08 But if you’re not, if you’re curious about Jesus, you can do it too because I love everyone.
0:42:09 But it’s a three-minutes.
0:42:10 It’s called the three-minute reset.
0:42:12 Me and a guy named Christophanic do it.
0:42:14 And I’ve found that a lot of people really like it.
0:42:16 And I just started doing this January 1 of this year.
0:42:20 And it’s every weekday because a lot of people are like, I don’t know what I want to do around
0:42:21 my faith.
0:42:22 And it’s like, well, here’s three minutes.
0:42:23 Maybe you can just start with three minutes.
0:42:27 And it’s combining stuff that I do in the work world with faith.
0:42:28 And so a lot of people really like that.
0:42:29 It’s grown.
0:42:31 How do you join it?
0:42:34 You just go wherever podcasts are and type in the three-minute reset in my name.
0:42:36 Oh, it’s a podcast that you can listen to every morning.
0:42:37 Yeah.
0:42:39 It’s essentially a podcast with a daily three-minute thing.
0:42:40 Oh, cool.
0:42:41 We’ll put the link in the show notes.
0:42:46 Again, guys, if you want to take the working genius assessment, go to youngandprofiting.co/work.
0:42:48 We’ll put that link in the show notes.
0:42:50 I can’t wait to hear what you guys think about that assessment.
0:42:52 If it helped you, let us know.
0:42:53 Write us a review.
0:42:57 Patrick, thank you so much for joining us on Young and Profiting Podcast.
0:42:59 It’s been a blast.
0:43:03 Thank you, Hala.
0:43:07 Thank you for tuning in for the second part of my wonderful conversation with Patrick
0:43:08 Lynchoni.
0:43:12 If you missed part one, you can find it right next to this episode in your Young and Profiting
0:43:13 feed.
0:43:14 It’s definitely worth going back for.
0:43:18 I really enjoyed learning more about how the different types of working genius can impact
0:43:20 teams and organizations.
0:43:24 I cannot wait to implement some of these takeaways with my own crew.
0:43:28 Every team is only as good as the sum of its individual pieces, and sometimes those individuals
0:43:32 are just in the wrong places, often through no fault of their own.
0:43:36 The best salesperson does not always make the best sales manager, and we shouldn’t
0:43:42 force them or incentivize them to fill a role that is wrong for them and wrong for the company.
0:43:46 Nor do you want to lose smart people just because they are not wired to do the job you
0:43:47 have given them.
0:43:51 A lot of young companies and startups suffer from lopsided teams.
0:43:56 They may have plenty of inventors and galvanizers, but lack employees who can get things done
0:43:58 or who can enable others to do the same.
0:44:02 Or they may have plenty of implementers, but few new ideas, and it’s just as important
0:44:07 to find the right mix of these skills as it is to find the right mix of subject expertise.
0:44:11 Patrick recommended creating a detailed team map to help identify where the genius gaps
0:44:13 are within your teams.
0:44:16 This can help you reassign tasks and reshape groups and roles.
0:44:19 It can also inform your hiring decisions.
0:44:23 The right person for the job might not be the one that you think based on conventional metrics.
0:44:26 Thanks for listening to this episode of Young and Profiting.
0:44:29 If you listened, learned and profited from this conversation, then why keep it all to
0:44:30 yourself?
0:44:34 Send it to a friend or colleague that you think could benefit from the same insights.
0:44:38 If you did enjoy this show and you learned something, then why not drop us a five-star
0:44:40 review on Apple Podcasts?
0:44:44 This is such a helpful way to show your support and also help us to reach more people and
0:44:45 keep climbing up the charts.
0:44:49 If you prefer watching your podcasts as videos, you can find us on YouTube.
0:44:53 Just look up Young and Profiting and you’ll find all our episodes there.
0:44:55 Looking to get in touch with me?
0:44:59 You can find me on Instagram or on LinkedIn by searching my name, Halla Taha.
0:45:04 Finally, a quick shout out my incredible production team and all the different types of working
0:45:05 genius they possess.
0:45:07 You guys are the best.
0:45:10 Before I sign off, I wanted to let you know that this is my AI voice.
0:45:15 At Yap Media, we’ve been experimenting with AI to see just how far we can push it.
0:45:20 Send me a DM on LinkedIn or Instagram, or send me an email to let me know what you think.
0:45:34 This is your host, Halla Taha, aka The Podcast Princess, signing off.
0:45:37 [MUSIC PLAYING]
0:45:47 [BLANK_AUDIO]

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0:01:20 Hey, yeah, fam.
0:01:25 I am beyond excited to bring you today’s episode with somebody who truly knows how to make
0:01:29 those neurons fire on all cylinders, Jim Quick.
0:01:35 We first played this episode in October 2022 and it was episode 190.
0:01:41 Jim Quick has been a huge influence in the world of memory improvement and brain optimization.
0:01:46 For over three decades, he has been the go-to expert for celebrities, CEOs, and even world
0:01:50 leaders who want to sharpen their minds and achieve more.
0:01:51 But here’s the kicker.
0:01:53 Jim wasn’t always a brainiac.
0:01:57 In fact, he started out as the boy with the broken brain.
0:02:02 And that’s because he struggled with a traumatic brain injury that left him learning challenged.
0:02:07 Fast forward to today and Jim is a living testament to the power of the human mind to
0:02:08 heal and grow.
0:02:11 Jim is one of the smartest people I know.
0:02:15 In this app classic, we talk about the techniques that you can use to improve your focus, boost
0:02:18 your memory, and learn anything faster.
0:02:25 Just like B-SWAV for remembering names, and I love his P times E times S formula, which
0:02:30 stands for purpose multiplied by energy and small simple steps.
0:02:33 That’s basically the secret sauce for limitless motivation.
0:02:37 Whether you’re trying to remember names at a networking event or simply want to keep
0:02:43 your mind sharp, this episode is packed with actionable tips that will help you get there.
0:02:51 So if you’re ready to make your brain your best asset, let’s get right into it.
0:02:55 Talk to us about those early years when you were the boy with the broken brain.
0:02:58 And tell us about this boy you were before you started your transformation.
0:02:59 Wow.
0:03:00 Okay.
0:03:01 Let’s go back.
0:03:05 You mentioned my traumatic brain injury when I was in kindergarten and I was rushed to the
0:03:08 emergency room and where it really showed up.
0:03:10 The effects was in school.
0:03:11 I had trouble learning.
0:03:12 I couldn’t focus.
0:03:14 I had a horrible memory.
0:03:17 I couldn’t process information like everybody else.
0:03:19 Teachers would repeat themselves over and over again.
0:03:23 And I learned to pretend to understand, but I really didn’t understand anything.
0:03:26 It took me a few years longer just to learn how to read.
0:03:29 And now those are really, there’s a lot of anxiety and stress for a kid.
0:03:33 You remember sitting in those reading circles, they would pass her on a book and, you know,
0:03:35 I have to read out loud when it came to you.
0:03:37 And I just have a look at the page and the words meant nothing.
0:03:42 Yeah, I thought I had the broken brain and every single time I did ballet on a test
0:03:47 or I wasn’t picked for sports in school, which was a very often, I would always say, “Oh,
0:03:49 because I have the broken brain.”
0:03:53 And adults have to be very careful with their external words because they become a child’s
0:03:54 internal words.
0:03:56 That became my self-talk.
0:04:00 Even when at events, when people see me do these demonstrations, I never do it to impress
0:04:01 them.
0:04:04 I really do them to just express to them what’s possible because the truth is every single
0:04:07 one of your listeners can do that and a whole lot more.
0:04:11 We just weren’t taught, if anything, we were taught a lie that somehow our potential, our
0:04:14 intelligence is somehow fixed, like maybe our shoe size.
0:04:16 And we’ve discovered more about the human brain.
0:04:17 Here’s the exciting news.
0:04:20 And more in the past 10 years than the previous 1,000 years combined that we found is we’re
0:04:25 grossly underestimating our own capabilities that really is not even the sky’s the limit.
0:04:27 It’s really, our minds are the limit.
0:04:30 And so my mission really is to build better, brighter brains.
0:04:31 No brain left behind.
0:04:36 And I know what it’s like to struggle, to be distracted, to not feel confident in your
0:04:37 own mind.
0:04:42 And I really feel that your brain is your number one wealth-building asset.
0:04:45 And the faster you can learn, the faster you can earn, because today, knowledge is not
0:04:48 only power, knowledge is a lot of what your show is about.
0:04:49 It’s about profit.
0:04:54 And I don’t just mean financial profit, I mean all the treasures of your life gets better.
0:04:57 When you understand how your brain works, you can work your brain.
0:05:03 And when you can learn and focus and remember and apply, you can apply that towards anything,
0:05:09 money, management, martial arts, music, Mandarin, everything in your life gets so much easier.
0:05:15 And so my message to everybody really is that limits are learned and that it’s just our
0:05:18 school system that really teaches us how our brain works.
0:05:21 There’s no class on focus or memory.
0:05:25 And so when we beat ourselves up, because we can’t concentrate or we can’t understand
0:05:30 something, it’s not, I realized after years of doing this, it’s not how smart we are.
0:05:32 It’s really how are we smart?
0:05:34 And we’re all smart in different ways.
0:05:38 And I think the most important skill for entrepreneurs or aspiring entrepreneurs or
0:05:43 people who really want to get to the next level is learning how to learn.
0:05:45 And then that’s really, really what we focus on.
0:05:49 I really relate to you and I was so excited to bring you on because I think this is such
0:05:50 an important topic.
0:05:54 And I think a lot of people have been through a similar struggle.
0:05:56 I remember like I wasn’t always good at math.
0:06:00 It would always put me in the poor math class when I was younger.
0:06:04 And then I had this stigma that I was always terrible at math, then I get to college and
0:06:05 I’m great at math.
0:06:09 And you just kind of have this transformation once you realize that these are actually just
0:06:13 labels and limitations and you can get over it as an adult.
0:06:19 But so many of us spend years believing this lie that adults told us when we were little
0:06:25 or like one thing happened and we go on believing forever that that’s just who we are.
0:06:30 The word you use is absolutely, I use it in the book Limitless Lie.
0:06:34 We believe these lies and a lie for me stands, everything’s kind of turned into an acronym
0:06:37 or some kind of mnemonic to make it easy to recall.
0:06:41 But lies for me stands for a limited idea entertained.
0:06:45 It’s not true that you’re not smart enough, it’s just a limited idea that we’re entertaining.
0:06:52 It’s not true that you’re not smart enough or that you don’t have the resourcefulness.
0:06:54 And so it’s really about transcending.
0:06:57 I think the nature of personal growth is about transcending.
0:07:02 It’s about ending the transcending this mass of gnosis, maybe through we got in there from
0:07:10 our parents or marketing or media that somehow that we’re broken, somehow that somehow we
0:07:17 could only have only a small amount or be a small amount or share a small amount.
0:07:23 And we found that we shouldn’t be eye-fine, especially of recent that the big mistake
0:07:28 people make is they shrink all that’s possible to fit their minds when maybe we should explore
0:07:32 expanding our minds to fit all that’s really possible.
0:07:33 I love that.
0:07:35 So let’s pass forward to your college years.
0:07:40 So your label became your limit from your age of five to 18.
0:07:42 You were sort of put in this box.
0:07:46 You didn’t believe you could be better necessarily or you didn’t have the tools.
0:07:50 And you were a freshman in college, you still had a difficult time learning like your peers
0:07:54 and you were actually ready to drop out of school, but you ended up meeting a mentor.
0:07:55 It was your friend’s dad.
0:07:59 He gave you a new direction and it was a very pivotal point in your life.
0:08:04 I’d love for you to share that story with us and why that moment in time was so eye-opening
0:08:06 for you.
0:08:10 So as you mentioned, I thought getting into school would give me a reset.
0:08:15 Like I thought freshmen meant fresh start as I took all these classes and I wanted to
0:08:20 show the world and show myself really, make people around me proud.
0:08:22 And I did worse.
0:08:26 And it was so difficult for me and I didn’t have the money to be in school to begin with.
0:08:28 And so I was ready to quit.
0:08:32 And when I had that thought, I was talking to friends and a friend said, “Hey, that’s
0:08:34 a big life decision.
0:08:36 Why don’t you get some perspective?”
0:08:41 And he invites me to visit his home over the weekend where he was going to just kind of
0:08:42 get some time off.
0:08:47 And I agree and when I get to this person’s home, it’s beautiful.
0:08:53 It’s on the water and the father walks me around his property and before dinner and
0:08:57 asked me a very innocent question and the question is, “How’s school?”
0:09:04 And I’m just getting choked up even thinking about it right now because that was the worst
0:09:05 question you could ask me.
0:09:10 And I started bawling in front of this stranger because I have so much pressure that I haven’t
0:09:16 told anybody and I told him my whole story about having my brain injury and not feeling
0:09:19 enough and like, “School’s not for me and I’m ready to quit.
0:09:21 I don’t know how to tell my folks.”
0:09:25 And he said, “Jim, in this question, one question changes everything.”
0:09:26 Right?
0:09:27 He said, “Why are you in school?
0:09:28 What do you want to be?
0:09:29 What do you want to do?
0:09:30 What do you want to have?
0:09:31 What do you want to share?”
0:09:35 And completely, completely honest, I didn’t have any answer because I didn’t know why
0:09:36 I was in school.
0:09:38 I just thought that’s what you do, right?
0:09:42 When I start thinking about it, I go to answer him and he says, “Stop.”
0:09:47 He reaches out in his back pocket, takes out a notepad and just asks me to write down all
0:09:48 the things I want.
0:09:51 If anything is possible, if you can’t fail, what would you do?
0:09:56 And I start writing these things down and I don’t know how much time goes by and kind
0:09:57 of lose track of time.
0:10:01 And when I’m done though, I start folding the sheets of paper to put in my pocket and
0:10:06 he rips them out of my hands and I’m freaking out because he starts reading them.
0:10:12 And I’ve never shared these things, my dreams or my desires, my goals with anybody.
0:10:16 I didn’t even realize some of these things I wanted until I went through this exercise
0:10:21 and I’m freaking out because I’m afraid of being judged like anybody.
0:10:22 You don’t want to be judged.
0:10:26 You don’t want to feel like, “Oh, that you’re not good enough for all these things.”
0:10:33 And when he’s done, he looks at me and he says, “Jim, you are this close to everything
0:10:38 on this list,” and for those of you watching on video, he’s spreading my index fingers
0:10:39 about a foot apart.
0:10:40 And I was like, “No way.
0:10:41 I’m not that close.
0:10:42 Give me 10 lifetimes.
0:10:44 I’m not going to crack that list.”
0:10:49 And he takes his index fingers and he puts them to the side of my head, meaning what’s
0:10:56 in between is the key that would unlock those achievements and meaning my brain.
0:11:00 And he walks me into his home, then into a room I’ve never seen before.
0:11:05 It is wall to wall, ceiling to floor, covering in books.
0:11:07 And at this point, I’ve never read a book cover to cover.
0:11:12 I still have some reading issues, ability issues, and I’m freaking out.
0:11:17 It’s like being in room full of snakes for people who are phobic and have anxiety around
0:11:18 something.
0:11:23 And what makes it worse is he starts going to the shelves and grabs these snakes, if
0:11:25 you will, and starts handing them to me.
0:11:30 And just book after book, and I started looking at the titles and there are these biographies
0:11:35 of some incredible women and men in history and some very early personal growth books.
0:11:39 I mean, the classics, Norman Vincent Peele, The Power of Positive Thinking, Thinking Girl
0:11:45 Rich, Napoleon Hill, and he says, Jim, he says, “Leaders or readers, I want you to read
0:11:47 one book a week.”
0:11:52 And my honest reaction was, “Have you not heard anything I’ve said to you this entire
0:11:53 time?
0:11:54 I have learning disabilities.
0:11:55 I have challenges.
0:11:56 I can’t read very well.
0:11:57 I have so much schoolwork.”
0:12:01 And when I said, “I have so much schoolwork,” he said, “Jim, don’t let school get in the
0:12:03 way of your education.”
0:12:07 And I didn’t realize it was a Mark Twain quote at the time, but I was like, “Wow, it’s really
0:12:11 profound, and I can’t promise to read a book a week.”
0:12:15 And then very smart man, he reaches into his pocket and he takes out my goals, like my
0:12:20 bucket list, and he starts reading every single one of my goals out loud.
0:12:26 And something about hearing your goals and your deepest desires said by a stranger, like
0:12:33 encanted out into the world and mess with my mind and my spirit, honestly, something fierce.
0:12:37 And a lot of the things on that list were things I wanted to do for my parents, things
0:12:42 that they could never, even if they could afford to, they wouldn’t do for themselves.
0:12:47 And with that motivation, in those reasons, I promised to read one book a week.
0:12:50 Well, fast forward, now I’m back at school and I have all these midterms.
0:12:51 I’m staying at my desk.
0:12:55 I have a pile of books I have to read for school and a pile of books I promise to read.
0:12:58 But I really couldn’t get through pile A. So what do I find the time?
0:12:59 So I don’t eat.
0:13:00 I don’t sleep.
0:13:01 I don’t socialize.
0:13:02 I don’t work out.
0:13:03 I don’t do anything.
0:13:07 I just live in the library day and night for weeks and weeks.
0:13:12 And one night, I pass out at the library, 2 a.m., I fall down a flight of stairs, I hit
0:13:18 my head again, and I woke up two full days later in the hospital.
0:13:23 And at this point, I was hooked up to all these IVs, that was malnourished, dehydrated.
0:13:29 I was down to 117 pounds, I was wasted away because I was just taking care of myself.
0:13:31 And it was the darkest point in my life.
0:13:35 And at that point, when I woke up, something else woke up inside of me also, and a kind
0:13:42 of renewed sense of purpose and I thought, and it’s interesting because I didn’t know
0:13:43 what to do.
0:13:50 And the nurse came in with a mug of tea and had a picture of Albert Einstein and a genius.
0:13:54 But the words, the quote was one you’ve heard before, it said, “The same level of thinking
0:13:57 that has created your problem won’t solve your problem.”
0:14:01 And it made me ask a new question, the power of questions again, “What’s my real problem?
0:14:03 My problem is I’m a slow learner.”
0:14:05 And I was like, “How do I think differently about it?
0:14:07 Maybe I can learn how to learn faster.”
0:14:12 So I put my schoolwork aside and I just started studying the art and science around learning.
0:14:15 I want to understand how my brain works, how I can work my brain.
0:14:17 How does my memory work so I can work my memory better?
0:14:19 How does focus work?
0:14:25 I started studying ancient methodologies of what did ancient civilizations do before
0:14:26 there were printing presses?
0:14:29 How do they remember things and new brain science?
0:14:34 And after a couple of months of studying this, a light switch just flipped on.
0:14:38 And I started in school understanding things for the very first time in my life.
0:14:42 I started to have this renewed focus and interest in learning.
0:14:47 I started to be able to read, be able to retain and do better.
0:14:48 My grades shot up.
0:14:51 But not only that, but my life got better.
0:14:55 And I started sharing some of the things I was doing with friends and I started tutoring.
0:14:59 And one of my very first students, I was teaching her how to speed reading.
0:15:01 She read 30 books in 30 days.
0:15:02 Can you imagine?
0:15:03 It’s a lot.
0:15:07 So many people are really good at buying books and that’s a different skill set than reading
0:15:08 those books.
0:15:13 People buy books, they sit on your shelf, they become shelf help, not self help.
0:15:18 And I started, I wanted to know not how she did it, but why.
0:15:21 And I found out that her motivation was her mom.
0:15:24 Her mom was diagnosed with terminal cancer.
0:15:28 Doctors gave her mom maybe two months to live and the books she was reading were books on
0:15:31 health and wellness, books to save her mom’s life.
0:15:35 And I find out six months later, she calls and she’s crying and crying.
0:15:39 And when she stops crying, I find out their tears of joy that her mother not only survived
0:15:40 but it’s getting better.
0:15:44 Doctors don’t know how or why, the doctors were calling it a miracle, but her mother
0:15:47 attributed the great advice she got from her daughter, Linda, from all these books.
0:15:48 Wow.
0:15:53 In that moment, I found my mission in life because I realized in that moment, if knowledge
0:15:58 is power, we hear that a lot than reading and learning is our superpower.
0:16:03 And I realized it’s the most important superpower and it’s a power we all have inside of us.
0:16:04 Wow.
0:16:06 Thank you so much for sharing that incredible story.
0:16:08 So I’m going to take us down a rabbit hole.
0:16:12 I wasn’t originally planning this, but as you were telling your story, I couldn’t help
0:16:16 but start thinking about immigrant parents and sort of like the pros and the cons of
0:16:17 immigrant parents.
0:16:19 So I came from immigrant parents.
0:16:22 I’m assuming you came from immigrant parents.
0:16:23 Am I correct?
0:16:24 Yes.
0:16:28 And I remember like all my friends, I actually had a sick, my dad was a doctor, but even
0:16:32 though my dad was a doctor, nobody helped me with homework when I was a kid.
0:16:37 Like I remember like I, it was kind of like on my own because my mom didn’t speak that
0:16:38 great of English.
0:16:41 My dad was busy at work providing for the family.
0:16:46 So I felt like I was always alone where I feel like other people, peers that might have
0:16:51 had American parents probably got help with their homework and things like that, or better
0:16:52 guidance.
0:16:55 Like you had that conversation with you when you were 18 and nobody ever told you to write
0:17:00 your goals down before because when you have immigrant parents, they’re kind of figuring
0:17:06 out how to navigate the world and provide and they’re kind of on this lower rung than
0:17:08 everyone else trying to figure it out.
0:17:11 I feel like sometimes you don’t get the advice that you need when you’re a kid.
0:17:12 Talk to us about that.
0:17:15 Does that ring any bells for you or I’d love to hear your thoughts.
0:17:17 Let’s go there.
0:17:20 My dad came to the United States when he was 13.
0:17:21 He’d lost both his parents.
0:17:27 And so I didn’t speak the language and have any money came and lived with his aunt who
0:17:31 I knew as my grandmother and mother grew up.
0:17:35 They lived in the back of the laundry mat that my grandmother worked at.
0:17:41 And it’s interesting because sometimes we think about resources and growing up, we didn’t
0:17:47 have any network or connections or money or education or those kind of things.
0:17:50 But I feel like a lot of it comes to the resources we have inside.
0:17:56 And I think, again, most important is the resource of our own mind is really, truly limitless.
0:18:00 My two biggest challenges growing up were learning for a long, for a decade and a half.
0:18:06 And because of it, my other challenge was public speaking because my superpower growing
0:18:07 up was shrinking down.
0:18:10 I didn’t want to be seen because I never had the answer.
0:18:11 Never.
0:18:16 If I was ever called on in class, I would never know what the solution was.
0:18:22 I never wanted the spotlight and my insecurities, my inadequacies kind of like seen by everybody.
0:18:25 And so my superpower was being invisible.
0:18:27 And the universe has a sense of humor because what do I do?
0:18:31 It’s like for a living, all I do is public speak on this thing called learning.
0:18:36 And so I really think that our disadvantages can be an advantage that through our struggles
0:18:41 lead to strengths, that through challenge leads to change.
0:18:43 My parents, they’re remarkable.
0:18:47 I attribute it in all fairness that anything that’s good that’s come out of me has come
0:18:51 from them and anything that’s fallen short is really on me.
0:18:57 I take that responsibility because they’re the reason why I learned to do what I say
0:19:02 that I’m going to do, discipline, kindness, working hard.
0:19:07 And I really do think that if somebody, they do the right things for the right reasons,
0:19:10 they’re kind, they’re willing to learn and make mistakes.
0:19:13 And then I feel like through our results, we’ll speak for themselves.
0:19:17 My challenge is sometimes where we give up our power outside of us.
0:19:21 We give up our agency by making an excuse or complaining.
0:19:26 And the truth is we can’t be upset by the results we didn’t get from the work we didn’t
0:19:27 do.
0:19:31 And so I feel like it’s so important that especially if somebody’s on the path of building
0:19:36 wealth or starting a business, in the beginning, it’s really hard because you’ve never done
0:19:37 this before.
0:19:39 There’s a learning curve.
0:19:41 The results don’t show up right away.
0:19:42 You’re right.
0:19:46 It detests your persistence, your patience, your commitment also, and you have to feed
0:19:47 your dreams.
0:19:52 You have to feed your business until your business or your dreams feed you back.
0:19:58 And then in the beginning, you’re grossly underpaid, if anything, but if you’re consistent and
0:20:03 you work hard, you’re always learning, then I feel like at some point it switches.
0:20:07 And you get overpaid for the things that you do because of all the work that you did before
0:20:08 the HUD.
0:20:13 And so I feel like Jim Rohn has this quote that would, “What you do, you’re rewarded in
0:20:16 public for the work you do in private.”
0:20:20 And I feel like everybody right now that’s struggling, that’s putting in the hours and
0:20:25 the early mornings or the late nights, I just feel like part of it is just taking care
0:20:27 of yourself and believing in yourself.
0:20:28 And we hear this all the time.
0:20:32 For me, believing in myself is, I saw this bird the other day and I realized while it’s
0:20:38 singing its song, its calm and its confidence, its calm and its confidence doesn’t come from
0:20:40 putting its trust in the tree branch.
0:20:44 The bird’s calm and confidence comes from putting its trust in its own wings.
0:20:50 And I feel like that when we have to know ourself and have the curiosity to know ourself,
0:20:52 but then also trust ourself.
0:20:57 And then having the courage to be ourself also, it’s just from practice.
0:21:01 Let’s hold that thought and take a quick break with our sponsors.
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0:22:44 Yeah fam, if you’re anything like me, you didn’t start your business to spend all your
0:22:45 time managing finances.
0:22:48 Budgeting, invoicing and tax prep?
0:22:51 Not exactly the fun part of entrepreneurship.
0:22:56 My CEO Jason on the other hand is great at finances, but even he doesn’t want to switch
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0:24:15 Hey, yeah, bam, launching my LinkedIn secrets masterclass was one of the best things I’ve
0:24:20 ever done for my business and I didn’t have to figure out all the nuts and bolts of creating
0:24:22 a website for my course.
0:24:24 I needed a lot of different features.
0:24:27 I needed chat capabilities in case anybody had questions.
0:24:30 I needed promo code discounts.
0:24:35 I needed a laundry list of features to enable what I was envisioning with my course.
0:24:36 But here’s the thing.
0:24:40 All I had to do was literally lift a finger to get it all done.
0:24:45 And that’s because I used Shopify.
0:24:51 Shopify is the easiest way to sell anything, to sell online or in person.
0:24:54 It’s the home of the number one checkout on the planet.
0:24:59 And Shopify is not so secret secret as Shoppay, which boosts conversions up to 50%.
0:25:05 That means way fewer cards get abandoned and way more sales get done.
0:25:09 So when students tell me that they can’t afford my course, I let them know about payment
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0:25:50 That’s Shopify.com/profit.
0:25:54 So let’s talk about the ability to unlimited ourselves, right?
0:25:58 So I think that’s really important, being able to believe in yourself like you were
0:25:59 just saying.
0:26:05 And so I’d love to understand the importance of motivation related to believing in yourself.
0:26:08 So motivation for me is not something that’s abstract.
0:26:10 It’s something very, very tangible.
0:26:16 This actually came from, I have a formula that I use to motivate myself and motivate
0:26:18 clients that I get to work with.
0:26:19 And it’s very simple.
0:26:23 And people, it turns into a little masterclass, I encourage everyone to take notes.
0:26:29 It’s P times E times S3, three factors for limitless motivation.
0:26:34 So if you struggle with getting yourself to do what you know you should do, because knowledge
0:26:38 by itself is not power, only because power when we apply it, when we implement it, right?
0:26:40 P times E times S3.
0:26:43 And so, well, we could do a thought experiment.
0:26:47 Everyone think about something that you’re not motivated to do, something that you know
0:26:50 you should do, but you’re not doing it.
0:26:54 Maybe it’s in meditation, or maybe it’s working out, maybe it’s reading each day, whatever
0:26:55 it happens to be.
0:26:58 So the P stands for purpose.
0:27:04 And I don’t mean our life’s purpose, we could talk about that, but I mean the reasons.
0:27:06 Without reasons, you won’t get the results.
0:27:10 Even if you want to remember names, which I think is one of the most important skills,
0:27:13 networking business skills, business advocate skills, because how are you going to show
0:27:17 somebody you’re in care for their future, their family, their health, their finances,
0:27:18 whatever it is you sell them.
0:27:21 If you don’t care enough just to remember their name, a lot of people will remember
0:27:26 names better if they just had a reason to remember their names, like ask yourself, “Why
0:27:28 do I want to remember the person’s name?”
0:27:32 Maybe it’s to show the person respect, maybe it’s to practice these things I learned from
0:27:33 this podcast, right?
0:27:38 And so, it has to go from your head to your heart, to your hands, meaning if you could
0:27:42 have visualization, if you visualize in your head, you have goals in your head, a bucket
0:27:46 list, KPIs, whatever in your head, and you’re not acting consistently with your head, check
0:27:52 in with your hands, check in with the second age, which is our heart, and the heart is
0:27:55 a symbol of emotions, because we are not logical.
0:27:59 Even people don’t buy logically, we know that, people buy emotionally, right?
0:28:03 Because we are not logical, we are biological.
0:28:05 You think we’re not logical, we’re biological.
0:28:10 You think about dopamine and oxytocin, serotonin, endorphins, we are this chemical feeling soup.
0:28:15 But we don’t do things unless we feel it, and that’s really the key to a long-term memory.
0:28:18 We tend to remember things that are charged with emotions.
0:28:21 There’s a song you could hear that could take you back to when you’re a teenager, or a
0:28:25 fragrance, or a food that could take you back to when you’re a child, right?
0:28:29 Because information by itself is very forgettable, and information when it’s combined with emotions
0:28:35 become unforgettable, because that part of your middle brain, your amygdala is processing
0:28:39 all these emotions, and it’s connected to your hippocampus, which is your memory.
0:28:42 And so, we remember things that make us feel a certain way, and when it comes to motivation,
0:28:43 we have to start with that feeling.
0:28:47 So, when I say purpose, it’s not intellectual purpose.
0:28:51 We all know we should do these things, but common sense is not common practice unless
0:28:53 we feel it.
0:28:58 And so, allow yourself to feel the sensations of who’s counting on you to play your A-game.
0:29:03 What are the rewards you’re going to be able to enjoy if you’re be able to follow through?
0:29:04 So, purpose.
0:29:09 Now, let’s say it’s to do something like reading each day.
0:29:14 Readers or readers, if anyone’s seen me on social media with Elon or Oprah or Bill Gates
0:29:18 or whoever, we bond it over books because you read to succeed.
0:29:22 If somebody has decades of experience and they put into a book and you sit down in a few
0:29:25 days and read that book, you could download decades into days.
0:29:27 That’s the biggest advantage there is in the world.
0:29:28 Yep.
0:29:29 Best ROI on your time.
0:29:30 Yep.
0:29:31 Absolutely.
0:29:33 And so, people intellectually know that, but if they’re not doing it, part of it is they
0:29:36 might not feel the benefits of doing it.
0:29:40 After that, though, somebody could have limitless purpose and still not read each day because
0:29:45 they need the E and the P times E times S3, the E stands for energy.
0:29:52 Such an important component and element of sustained motivation is sustained energy.
0:29:53 And here’s the thing.
0:29:55 Here’s a trick when it comes to energy.
0:29:57 Energy is not something you have.
0:29:59 And people are listening, “You’re right, Jim.
0:30:00 I have no energy.”
0:30:02 It’s something you do.
0:30:07 One of the principles I subscribe to for accelerated learning is get in the habit of taking your
0:30:14 nouns and transferring them into verbs, transforming them into verbs, meaning we hypnotize ourselves
0:30:16 with the language we’re using on a regular basis.
0:30:20 Your brain is this incredible supercomputer and your self-talk is the program it will
0:30:21 run.
0:30:25 If you tell yourself, “I’m not good at remembering people’s names,” you will not remember the
0:30:29 name of the next person you meet because you program your supercomputer not to.
0:30:31 Same thing with saying, “I don’t have energy.”
0:30:34 Because you don’t have energy, you do energy.
0:30:35 Just like you don’t have focus.
0:30:36 You’re like, “Jim, yes.
0:30:37 This is my problem.
0:30:38 I have no focus.”
0:30:39 You don’t have focus.
0:30:40 You do focus.
0:30:42 There’s a process for focusing.
0:30:44 There’s a process for generating energy.
0:30:46 You don’t have creativity.
0:30:48 There’s a process for being creative.
0:30:50 You don’t even have a memory.
0:30:53 There’s a three-step process for memorizing something.
0:30:58 And the benefit of taking some noun and turning them into a verb is all of a sudden you turn
0:30:59 into a process.
0:31:03 It’s the strategy now that you could execute on.
0:31:07 So that’s really my goal is to take these processes and show people there’s a method
0:31:09 behind what looks like magic.
0:31:13 When I can memorize in front of an audience 50 people’s names or 100 people’s names that
0:31:18 pass around a microphone, 100 random words, random numbers, or a shuffle deck of cards
0:31:23 or whatever, there’s a time obviously I couldn’t do that because I was worse off than most people
0:31:24 who are listening.
0:31:27 But there’s no such thing as a good or bad memory.
0:31:30 There’s a trained memory and untrained memory just like there’s no such thing as a good
0:31:31 or bad brain.
0:31:33 There’s a trained brain and an untrained brain.
0:31:36 So the second part for motivation is not just having purpose.
0:31:40 Yes, you have purpose to read, to succeed, to make more money, to have greater impact.
0:31:42 But if you’re not doing it, maybe you lack energy.
0:31:45 Maybe you ate a big processed meal and you’re in a food coma.
0:31:50 Maybe you’re waiting to read when you’re most tired in the day and you haven’t slept.
0:31:55 And so you’re depleted and you can’t get yourself to act because you lack the energy.
0:32:01 And so we talk about in our podcast, in the books, 10 different ways you can optimize.
0:32:03 What are the best brain foods?
0:32:05 What’s the best way to reduce stress?
0:32:07 Because stress uses up a whole lot of energy.
0:32:09 How do you optimize your sleep?
0:32:13 Now after purpose and energy, let’s say you have a limitless purpose, you feel it and
0:32:18 you have lots and lots of energy and you’re still not following through, working out,
0:32:21 our reading or whatever, making those sales calls, whatever.
0:32:27 In S3, the final part, 3S’s, small, simple steps.
0:32:28 Here’s the thing.
0:32:33 So a lot of times people are not motivated because this thing is too abstract and a confused
0:32:35 mind doesn’t do anything.
0:32:39 Just like even if you’re marketing to somebody and if you make it too intimidating, they’re
0:32:43 not going to do anything because you have to break it down into small, simple steps that
0:32:45 they could see themselves following through on.
0:32:49 So maybe working out an hour a day is too hard for someone.
0:32:51 That’s not what they normally do.
0:32:54 So maybe it’s putting on their running shoes.
0:32:55 Maybe it’s getting them getting to the gym.
0:32:58 That’s a small, simple step.
0:33:01 Maybe if you can’t get a kid to floss their teeth, maybe it’s getting them to floss one
0:33:04 tooth or clean their room is too difficult.
0:33:05 It’s too intimidating.
0:33:09 It’s like climbing a mountain but maybe putting one sock in the hamper.
0:33:11 So inch by inch, it’s a cinch.
0:33:15 Yard by yard, it’s way too hard and my thing is how do you find the small, simple step?
0:33:18 I ask myself a simple question.
0:33:20 What is the tiniest action?
0:33:21 People can write this down.
0:33:24 What is the tiniest action I could take right now that would give me progress towards this
0:33:27 goal so tiny that I can’t fail?
0:33:31 Because you eliminate the friction so then you can create that positive momentum.
0:33:34 So for me, you don’t have motivation.
0:33:35 You do it.
0:33:40 And the process is purpose, energy and small, simple steps.
0:33:44 I love that because I feel like you’re giving people ownership over their brain.
0:33:48 A lot of people feel like they’re born a genius, right?
0:33:52 That you’ve got to have these smarts and you’re born with it or you’re not.
0:33:53 They’re living with these labels.
0:33:56 So I think everything you’re saying is really impactful and also really practical.
0:34:00 You’re giving us steps that we can take to actually improve our brain.
0:34:06 So let’s talk about myths because a lot of people think that we only use 10% of our brain.
0:34:07 You say that’s not true.
0:34:09 I’ve heard that a thousand times.
0:34:13 And I’d love to hear some of the myths that you’ve heard over the years about learning
0:34:14 and our brain.
0:34:21 Yeah, let’s name a few of them, the lies or the BS, the BS stands for our belief systems.
0:34:24 So the limited ideas entertain.
0:34:27 One of them is exactly what you mentioned, that we use 10% of our brain.
0:34:31 The truth is that we actually use 100% of our brain.
0:34:33 And it’s just, but here’s the caveat.
0:34:37 Some people use that 100% differently than other people.
0:34:39 It’s kind of like we use 100% of our body.
0:34:42 Most people use 100% of their bodies throughout the day.
0:34:45 But some people are just more physically fit.
0:34:49 They have endurance, they have flexibility, they have a level of agility and strength
0:34:51 because they’ve trained those muscles.
0:34:55 Well, I think the most important muscle, which is an organ, but metaphorically, it’s
0:34:58 more like a muscle is the mind.
0:34:59 And it’s use it or lose it.
0:35:03 But if I put my arm in a sling for a year, in when it grows stronger, it wouldn’t even
0:35:04 stay the same.
0:35:06 What would happen to a muscle?
0:35:07 It would just atrophy.
0:35:08 We care weaker.
0:35:11 That’s a lot of what happens with our mental muscles.
0:35:12 We’re not utilizing them.
0:35:16 And so we actually use 100% of our brain, just to use 100% of our body.
0:35:22 But if somebody needed to climb, go for a hike, and it’s a pretty steep incline, some
0:35:25 people are just going to navigate that easier than others.
0:35:29 And same thing when people are reading, some people will navigate through a book with greater
0:35:35 speed, efficiency, focus, understanding, retention, enjoyment because they’re just mentally fit.
0:35:37 And so again, there’s no such thing as a good or bad brain.
0:35:40 There’s a trained brain and an untrained brain, that that’s the truth.
0:35:45 Another myth is that genius is, as you mentioned, genius is born.
0:35:48 You’re either born with it or you’re not born with it.
0:35:53 And the truth is that it’s not how smart you are, it’s how are you smart?
0:35:58 There’s a story in Limitless, and I don’t want to go and get all audible right now,
0:36:00 but maybe I could read this anecdote.
0:36:04 I talk about how genius is actually built.
0:36:09 So the story that I share in here says, “A king was watching a great magician perform
0:36:10 his act.
0:36:12 The crowd was enthralled, and so was the king.
0:36:18 At the end, the audience roared with approval, and the king said, ‘What a gift this man has!
0:36:20 A God-given talent!’
0:36:26 But a wise counselor said to the king, ‘My Lord, genius is built, not born.’
0:36:29 This magician skills the result of discipline and practice.
0:36:33 These talents have been learned and honed over time with determination and discipline.
0:36:35 The king was troubled by this message.
0:36:39 The counselor’s challenge had spoiled his pleasure in the magician’s arts.
0:36:43 Limited in spiteful man, how dare you criticize a true genius?
0:36:48 As I said, you either have it or you don’t, and you most certainly don’t.”
0:36:51 The king turned to his bodyguard and said, “Throw this man into the deepest dungeon.”
0:36:54 And he added, “For the counselor’s benefit, so you won’t be lonely.
0:36:57 You can have two of your kind to keep you company.
0:37:00 You shall have two piglets as cellmates.”
0:37:04 From the very first day of his imprisonment, the wise counselor practiced running up the
0:37:09 stairs of his cell to the prison door, carrying in each hand a piglet.
0:37:12 As the days turned into weeks and the weeks into months, the piglets steadily grew into
0:37:18 sturdy bores, and with every day of practice, the wise counselor increased in power and
0:37:19 strength.
0:37:23 One day, the king remembered the wise counselor and was curious to see how imprisonment has
0:37:24 humbled him.
0:37:26 He had the wise counselor summoned.
0:37:30 When the prisoner appeared, he was a man of powerful physique, carrying a boar on each
0:37:31 arm.
0:37:36 The king exclaimed, “What a gift this man has, a God-given talent.”
0:37:41 The wise counselor replied, “My Lord, genius is built, not born.
0:37:43 My skills result in discipline and practice.
0:37:48 These talents have been learned and honed over time with determination and discipline.”
0:37:50 Oh, I love that story.
0:37:53 It’s one of those ideas that people don’t see as we were talking about earlier, the
0:37:59 work that goes on behind the scenes, and what you’ve done to build your business, to build
0:38:00 your brand.
0:38:02 They don’t see that.
0:38:04 It’s the tip of the iceberg kind of theory.
0:38:09 The idea here is that people aren’t born that they are actually with genius.
0:38:10 It actually be built.
0:38:15 I believe genius leaves clues that when somebody is exceptional and you’ve had so many of these
0:38:21 guests that are exceptional in certain areas, that you’re helping them to deconstruct what
0:38:26 they do and making it the methods more clear, conscious for people who are listening and
0:38:31 helps them develop their fast track, their shortcuts, if you will.
0:38:35 I really do believe genius is something that’s available to all of us.
0:38:36 Yeah, 100%.
0:38:37 And doing is so important.
0:38:41 Like you’re saying, the reps, the repetition, the consistency, I feel like that’s really
0:38:43 the key to everything.
0:38:49 I always talk about this on my podcast, get the skills, get the experiences, do the things.
0:38:54 Like you said, it’s not an overnight success ever, it’s years and years, and then people
0:38:56 just see the tip of that iceberg usually.
0:38:58 So let’s talk about memory.
0:39:00 I love this.
0:39:02 Memory is so foundational to everything that you say.
0:39:08 You actually have said in the past that no learning is happening without memory.
0:39:12 So talk to us about how memory plays into everything that you teach.
0:39:17 So I believe two of the most costly words in life are, “I forgot.”
0:39:18 How often do we say these words?
0:39:19 Like, “I forgot to do it.
0:39:20 I forgot to bring it.
0:39:21 I forgot that meeting.
0:39:22 I forgot what I was going to say.
0:39:24 I forgot that conversation.
0:39:26 I forgot that person’s name.”
0:39:30 Every single time we have those thoughts, we could lose time.
0:39:31 We could lose trust.
0:39:34 We could lose, we could lose a sale even.
0:39:39 And so I believe on the other side that memory will actually make you money when you can
0:39:44 easily remember facts and figures and talking points, product information, client information,
0:39:45 right?
0:39:48 Remember your mental fingertips because everybody who’s listening here, nobody, it’s not like
0:39:52 it was 100 years ago or generations ago.
0:39:56 It’s not like you’re compensated for your brute strength.
0:39:58 Today it’s your brain strength.
0:40:02 It’s not like it was agricultural age where you’re paid for your muscle power.
0:40:04 Today it’s your mind power.
0:40:06 And so memory is foundational.
0:40:08 Socrates said learning is remembering.
0:40:11 The challenge is memory wasn’t a class back in school, right?
0:40:14 I always thought it should have been the fourth R, reading, writing, arithmetic, but what
0:40:15 about retention?
0:40:16 What about recall?
0:40:17 What about remembering?
0:40:22 And so there’s certain things we could do to be able to improve our memory.
0:40:27 And so a lot of times people come to me and say, “Jim, I want to get better at my memory.”
0:40:30 And I say, “That’s like saying I want to be better at sports.
0:40:33 What area specifically, what sport specifically?”
0:40:36 So let’s say, let’s go back to remembering names.
0:40:38 Yeah, I love that.
0:40:39 Yeah.
0:40:41 So I think there are three keys to remembering names.
0:40:47 The first one I mentioned already, and I use the acronym MOM, M-O-M, and it’s like the
0:40:49 mother of all memory techniques.
0:40:51 The M stands for motivation.
0:40:55 So just a reminder, when we forget something, we usually aren’t connected to the reason
0:40:57 why we want to remember it.
0:41:01 And here’s the thing, we don’t remember all names, but nobody listening to this forgets
0:41:02 all names either.
0:41:04 And remember, I said, “Genius leaves clues.”
0:41:08 And you’re probably motivated to remember those names that you did remember.
0:41:09 Maybe you’re attracted to that person.
0:41:12 Maybe that person can be good for your business or something.
0:41:14 Hiring manager or something, right?
0:41:15 Exactly.
0:41:19 And you can ask yourself, you can connect with that again by asking yourself, “Why?
0:41:20 Why do I remember this person’s name?”
0:41:24 And come up with just one reason, because if you come up with one reason, you won’t remember.
0:41:28 The O in MOM stands for observation.
0:41:33 And this is so simple, but it’s usually the simple stuff that people forget to do.
0:41:35 Observation means your attention.
0:41:39 A lot of people aren’t forgetting a name, they’re just not paying attention.
0:41:43 You could remember one or two words, a name, but most people, what are they doing?
0:41:48 They’re thinking about how they’re going to reply or what they’re going to say in response
0:41:50 or waiting for their turn to speak.
0:41:53 And so a lot of people, they’re not forgetting, they’re just not listening.
0:41:56 And the art of memory is the art of attention.
0:42:00 So I would remind you, imagine, and if you’re writing this down, write the word “listen.”
0:42:05 And here’s a brain exercise, kind of like a word will change the letters around, scramble
0:42:08 the letters, and what word does it spell perfectly?
0:42:12 Also like if you scramble the letters and listen, it spells another word.
0:42:13 Silent.
0:42:14 Silent.
0:42:17 And that’s all I would ask people to do if you want to improve their memory or memory
0:42:18 names.
0:42:21 Ask yourself why, come up with a couple of reasons, and then just be silent.
0:42:22 Right?
0:42:28 One of my favorite books by one of my mentors, Dr. Stephen Covey, he wrote “7 Habits of Highly
0:42:29 Effective People.”
0:42:34 And one of the habits is seek first to understand, then to be understood.
0:42:38 Seek first to understand, then to be understood, that we don’t have to be the most interesting
0:42:44 person in the room, but I think to have greater impact, have greater income, certainly have
0:42:45 greater influence.
0:42:48 Instead of being the most interesting person in the room, try to be the most interested
0:42:49 person in the room.
0:42:50 Right?
0:42:51 That curiosity.
0:42:54 And then get seek first to understand, and it starts with the person’s name.
0:42:55 Right?
0:42:57 Because how are you going to, again, show you’re going to care if you don’t care enough just
0:42:58 to remember their name?
0:43:01 Because people don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care.
0:43:02 And so that’s so important.
0:43:03 So just pay attention.
0:43:08 And finally, final M and mom are the methods, you know, the things that we have in our
0:43:11 podcast and our book, and we could talk about some of them for remembering name, something
0:43:16 simple like B-SWAV, so six steps on how to remember names and faces.
0:43:22 If you see me do this, and they had a live event or on video, B-SWAV.
0:43:23 Very, very simple.
0:43:27 The B, believe, because if you believe you can or believe you can’t, either way, you’re
0:43:28 right.
0:43:31 And you want to limit the negative self-talk, because remember I said your brain is like
0:43:32 a supercomputer.
0:43:33 Your self-talk is the program of run.
0:43:37 So if you tell yourself I’m not good at remembering names, you won’t remember the name of the
0:43:38 next person you meet.
0:43:41 So many people at events come to me and they talk to me about their lives.
0:43:42 They say, “I’m too old.
0:43:43 I’m not smart enough.”
0:43:45 And I say, “Stop.
0:43:47 If you fight for your limitations, you get to keep them.”
0:43:48 That’s so good.
0:43:53 If people truly understood how powerful their mind is, they wouldn’t say or think something
0:43:55 they didn’t want to be true.
0:43:56 So you want to be able to keep it encouraging.
0:44:02 And so the B and B-SWAV, believe, the E, exercise.
0:44:05 And I don’t mean physical exercise, although people who are more physically active, like
0:44:09 if you’re listening to this podcast right now and you’re on an elliptical or you’re
0:44:12 going for a brisk walk, you’ll probably learn it better because as your body moves, your
0:44:13 brain grooves.
0:44:18 When you move your body, you create brain-derived neurotropic factors, BDNF, which is like fertilizer
0:44:21 for neuroplasticity, great for learning.
0:44:22 But I don’t mean exercise.
0:44:25 I mean practice, because practice makes progress.
0:44:32 And so I’m very good at remembering names, but after the first month or two of learning
0:44:36 how to do it, I haven’t improved a whole lot more because once you know how to do something,
0:44:40 you know how to tie your shoes, then you just know how to tie your shoes.
0:44:45 You know how to type, you know how to drive a car, and after 30 or 60 days, it’s a skill.
0:44:49 So I just want to just reaffirm that you don’t have a good or bad memory.
0:44:53 There’s a trained memory and untrained memory, and so I would say practice.
0:44:56 You don’t have to go out there and practice remembering 50 people’s names, but just start
0:45:01 with one, you know, and then one becomes two, and little by little, a little becomes a whole
0:45:02 lot.
0:45:05 We’ll be right back after a quick break from our sponsors.
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0:49:21 Then the second half of B-SWAV, BS and SWAVs say the name.
0:49:25 So when somebody introduces themselves, say the name back to them and just literally repeat
0:49:26 it.
0:49:29 And just by hearing it again, it will boost your retention.
0:49:30 You get to hear it from them.
0:49:32 You get to hear it from yourself.
0:49:34 You and SWAV stands for use it.
0:49:35 Now you want to use it.
0:49:36 You don’t want to abuse it.
0:49:41 So three or four times in the context of the conversation, we’ll help you retain it.
0:49:45 The A in BSWAV, ask.
0:49:49 And you can ask all kinds of things about a person’s name, who are you named after?
0:49:52 How do you, is that spelled with a Y or an I?
0:49:57 Especially for names that are unusual that you haven’t heard before, like your own.
0:49:58 Where did it come from?
0:50:00 It’s Arabic and it actually means welcome.
0:50:02 Oh, that’s beautiful.
0:50:05 And then you can ask somebody how they spell it and the origin and what’s it where it’s
0:50:06 from.
0:50:09 And all of a sudden asking about person’s name, right, they say a name is the sweetest
0:50:14 sound a person’s ears, a name will automatically trigger someone’s reticular activating system.
0:50:18 I know you’ve done shows on that also and had guests talk about the RAS and RAS.
0:50:21 But that’s one of the things that are programmed, it’s the sweetest sound, right?
0:50:23 So it gets your attention automatically.
0:50:26 And so compute by name, asking about their name.
0:50:32 So that’s the A. And finally, the V in the E in SWAV, the V is visualized.
0:50:33 And here’s the thing.
0:50:36 So many people are better with faces than they are with names because they could see
0:50:37 it, right?
0:50:41 You go to someone and say, “I recognize your face, but I forgot your name.”
0:50:43 You never go to someone and say the opposite.
0:50:46 You never go to someone and say, “I remember your name, but I forgot your face.”
0:50:47 Right?
0:50:48 So true.
0:50:49 That would make a lot of sense.
0:50:55 But we tend to remember what we see and because more of our nervous system, our brain is dedicated
0:50:58 to real estate towards visual processing.
0:51:01 And so there’s a proverb that says, “What I hear, I forget.
0:51:03 What I see, I remember.
0:51:04 What I do, I understand.
0:51:05 What I hear, I forget.
0:51:06 I heard the name.
0:51:07 I forgot it.
0:51:08 What I see, I remember.
0:51:09 I saw your face.
0:51:10 I’ll always remember your face.”
0:51:15 And going back to what I do, I understand through practice, makes progress.
0:51:19 So I would say if you tend to remember what you see, visualize, then try seeing what you
0:51:20 want to remember.
0:51:25 So if you meet somebody, name chase, then all of a sudden you can imagine it for a split
0:51:29 second that they might be chasing you, right, or something like that.
0:51:35 Or if somebody named Ben, imagine, and maybe they have a great head of hair, and you imagine
0:51:39 that their head is somehow associated with Big Ben, or something like that.
0:51:45 And then all of a sudden, and it sounds childish, but how fast are children and learning?
0:51:48 They make these images, and then that’s feeling to it too.
0:51:53 We already said that information, when time’s emotion, become a long-term memory.
0:51:57 And so how can you visualize a person’s name to make it more memorable?
0:51:58 A person’s name is Mary.
0:52:02 Imagine them carrying two lambs, or getting Mary to them, right?
0:52:04 And someone’s name, Mike, right?
0:52:09 You just imagine them jumping on the table and taking karaoke on a microphone.
0:52:15 And again, and these are temporary, it’s to overcome what I call the six-second syndrome.
0:52:16 Somebody tells you their name.
0:52:19 You have six seconds to do something with that, otherwise what happens?
0:52:23 As soon as the handshake breaks, it falls right through the floor.
0:52:24 So it grabs it.
0:52:28 It forces you to focus on the person, and it forces you to focus on the name.
0:52:31 And that focus will lead to remembrance.
0:52:34 And so remember what you want to see by seeing what you want to remember.
0:52:38 That’s the B. And then finally, the E and B suave is end.
0:52:43 When you leave somebody, you use their name, saying goodbye using their name.
0:52:48 Because if you could walk into a room of strangers, like 20 people, and then leave saying goodbye
0:52:53 to every single one of them by name, who are they all going to remember?
0:52:54 They’re all going to remember you, right?
0:52:59 And that’s a standout skill in a world where a lot of services are commoditized and you
0:53:02 need to be able to stand out and become unforgettable.
0:53:07 I think one of the easiest ways to stand out in a room is remembering people.
0:53:08 I 100% agree.
0:53:10 This is such a good hack.
0:53:15 I feel like everyone should rewind, take some notes down, and give yourself a homework assignment.
0:53:19 Start to practice B. suave when you’re at your next networking event or party or whatever
0:53:20 it is.
0:53:23 Don’t remember every single person’s name and give it a try.
0:53:25 I think it’s really cool.
0:53:26 And you know what?
0:53:30 Based on your work, I found out that we’re actually getting worse at stuff like this because
0:53:33 of digital dementia and some issues like this.
0:53:38 I’d love to move on to that as we start to close out the interview.
0:53:43 You call these supervillains, and this is all related to our relationship with technology.
0:53:48 You have four drivers of the digital age that reduce brain performance, digital deluge,
0:53:52 digital distraction, digital deduction, and digital dementia.
0:53:55 So I’d love to learn a little bit about those areas.
0:53:58 So these are the four horsemen of the mental apocalypse.
0:54:01 And it’s one of those things where, let’s start with digital deluge.
0:54:05 It’s one of those things where it’s overload, information overload, and how many people listening
0:54:10 feel like there’s too much information and not a lot of time to go through it all.
0:54:14 They were drowning in information, but we’re starving for that practical wisdom, if you
0:54:20 will, or the ability to learn how to swim in a world flooded with information and data.
0:54:23 So the amount of information is doubling at dizzying speeds.
0:54:31 They say that the amount of information, when you graduate school, the half-life information
0:54:34 is getting shorter and shorter because it could be outdated.
0:54:36 And it’s insane because it’s update.
0:54:41 I was doing a program at Google, and I heard somebody say there that the amount of information
0:54:47 that’s been created from the dawn of humanity to the year 2003, just a couple decades ago,
0:54:51 that amount of information, think about the Library of Congress, that amount of information
0:54:54 that was created every 48 hours online.
0:54:56 Oh my God, that’s crazy.
0:54:59 Think about all the podcasts and all the social media and all the blogs.
0:55:01 That’s insane to think about.
0:55:05 So the amount of information is doubling, but how we learn it and read it and retain it,
0:55:06 that hasn’t changed a whole lot.
0:55:10 But that growing gap creates digital deluge, information anxiety.
0:55:16 And that’s an actual, they call it information fatigue syndrome, higher blood pressure, compression
0:55:18 of leisure time, more sleeplessness.
0:55:19 I think we’d all identify.
0:55:23 So the goal is you upgrade your learning skills to keep up with that overload.
0:55:24 Then you have digital distraction.
0:55:28 And how do you maintain your concentration and overall flow of rings and pings and dings
0:55:31 and app notifications, social media alerts?
0:55:34 And again, I’m pro-technology.
0:55:37 It allows us to do this, right?
0:55:42 It allows us to inspire, to empower, to entertain, and there’s the other side of the coin or
0:55:46 the sword, where it’s driving us to distraction.
0:55:52 With every like, share, comment, cat video, whatever, we’re going to just dopamine flood.
0:55:56 And we wonder why we can’t concentrate when we’re on doing our screen time with work or
0:55:59 just having a conversation with somebody and our mind wanders.
0:56:04 And part of it is, I feel like our brain has been just distracted and overloaded and it’s
0:56:05 going all different ways.
0:56:10 That’s why we train in limitless chapters on focus and flow.
0:56:14 And then besides digital deluge and digital distraction, we have digital deduction.
0:56:15 And that’s the term I just coined.
0:56:21 Basically, I read the study where children, when they’re tested this generation, they’re
0:56:25 not showing the scores and the same kind of results as previous generations.
0:56:32 In fact, it’s lower in their ability to deduce and to rationalize, to apply logic.
0:56:38 And the study suggests it’s because of the technology is doing the thinking for us.
0:56:43 Remember, even like GPS, how would we know to get from here to there?
0:56:46 We’d have to use some kind of visual spatial intelligence.
0:56:51 But here, we’re just kind of on autopilot and technology with algorithms, it’ll teach
0:56:54 you not how to think, but teach you what to think, based on things.
0:56:56 And so that’s digital deduction.
0:57:00 And I feel like it’s so important for school not only to teach us what to learn, but how
0:57:01 to learn.
0:57:04 Not what to think, but how to think ourselves.
0:57:08 And then finally, the last one, as you mentioned, is this one called digital dementia.
0:57:10 And that’s the equivalent of us physically.
0:57:14 If we just took Uber and Lyft just to go five blocks and we didn’t walk it, then there’s
0:57:18 a physical, it’s convenient, but it could be crippling to our body.
0:57:22 If we rely on taking an elevator just to go to our apartment on the third floor every
0:57:26 day, then we lose an opportunity to exercise our muscles.
0:57:30 And this thing about something simple, like, I don’t know, phone numbers, like how many
0:57:33 phone numbers did you used to know growing up?
0:57:35 Yeah, so many.
0:57:38 Now I don’t even know my best friend’s phone number, but I couldn’t tell you my best friend’s
0:57:40 phone number by heart, her cell phone.
0:57:43 And your community came with that person every single day.
0:57:45 And so then that’s digital dementia.
0:57:49 And I have to say, again, I don’t want to memorize 500 phone numbers, but it should be
0:57:55 concerning we’ve lost the ability to remember one phone number or a passcode or a pin number
0:58:01 or a seed phrase or our hotel room or credit whatever it happens to be.
0:58:05 And so your memory is a muscle, it’s use it or lose it, just like the rest of our mind.
0:58:09 And again, technology is not good or bad, it’s just like fire, fire is a technology.
0:58:14 It could cook your food or it could burn down your home.
0:58:16 It’s just how it’s applied.
0:58:20 And I would just say, just like with anything, there’s a quote in Limitless that says, “Life
0:58:27 is the C between B and D.” Life is C between B and D. B stands for birth, D stands for
0:58:29 death, life C, choice.
0:58:34 That our life is a sum total of all the choices we made up to this point.
0:58:39 And these difficult times, they define us, these difficult times can distract us, these
0:58:43 difficult times can diminish us, or these difficult times, they actually can develop
0:58:44 us.
0:58:46 We ultimately decide every single day.
0:58:52 And I want to remind people that we always have that ability to decide to just to show
0:58:53 up for ourselves.
0:58:54 Right?
0:58:56 Because I think we’re all on this journey to reveal and realize our fullest potential.
0:59:01 I really do believe there’s a version of every single person who’s listening to this,
0:59:05 there’s a version of yourself that you haven’t met yet, there’s a version of your brain you
0:59:08 haven’t met yet, there’s a version of your business that you haven’t met yet.
0:59:12 And the goal is we show up every single day until we’re introduced.
0:59:13 Yeah.
0:59:15 And like you said, technology is not good or bad.
0:59:20 We just need to evolve with that technology and learn how to learn better.
0:59:23 And what a great conversation we had today about building a better brain.
0:59:27 So Jim, the way that we close out our show is I give two questions that I ask all my
0:59:28 guests at the end of the show.
0:59:31 We do something fun at the end of the year with them.
0:59:36 So the first one is what is one actionable thing our young and profitors can do today
0:59:39 to become more profiting tomorrow?
0:59:43 So I would say one of the most important things you do is to love your brain.
0:59:45 And what do I mean by that?
0:59:48 Let’s say when you reached the age of driving, you were given a car.
0:59:51 But this was just like the one car that you had for the rest of your life.
0:59:53 How well would you take care of that car?
0:59:57 Keep it spotless, I would take it to service, I would do everything right.
1:00:01 And we have this vehicle that we’re going through life with, which is our body and part
1:00:03 of our body is our brain.
1:00:07 So I would ask everybody, the one thing that you could do to be able to do that, to have
1:00:10 more purpose and profitability is to love your brain.
1:00:13 And then just the simple thing you could do is ask yourself, is this good for my brain
1:00:15 or is this bad for my brain?
1:00:19 Is watching this good for my brain or about eating this good for my brain or is it bad
1:00:20 for my brain?
1:00:24 And not that you have to be absolutely perfect, but the goal is progress.
1:00:27 And so love your brain because your brain controls everything.
1:00:30 It’s your number one wealth building asset.
1:00:31 I think that’s super smart.
1:00:34 A lot of people concentrate on their bodies and they forget about their brain.
1:00:36 So I think that’s great.
1:00:39 All right, what is your secret to profiting in life?
1:00:42 And profiting does not have to mean money.
1:00:45 So I think if you want your business to grow, your brand to grow, your book sales to grow,
1:00:49 your bank account to grow, then your brain has to grow.
1:00:51 And I say this because I always wear a brain on my shirt.
1:00:54 I’m always seen on social media pointing to my brain.
1:00:57 And I see, I think what you see, you take care of, you see your car, you take care of
1:00:59 it, you see your hair, you take care of it, your clothes, you take care of it.
1:01:03 But we don’t see the thing that controls everything, which is the human brain.
1:01:08 And so I would say that you want to be able to, just like with technology, we hear about,
1:01:12 you know, you upgrade your apps, you upgrade your phone, you get the upgrade your software,
1:01:13 your computers.
1:01:16 But one last time we upgraded the most important technology that has created all that other
1:01:19 technology, which is the human mind.
1:01:25 And so I would say the fastest way to grow, to get that area is you reach and then you
1:01:28 rest and then you repeat, right?
1:01:30 You stretch, you stabilize, right?
1:01:33 You count on an amount and you stretch yourself, then you stabilize and then you stretch some
1:01:35 more and then you stabilize.
1:01:39 And so I think that would be it, that you learn to earn, to return.
1:01:42 You learn, because the more you learn, the more you earn.
1:01:44 And the more you earn, the more you have the ability to return.
1:01:48 And I think that return is really important, because that sense of contribution, you train
1:01:53 your nervous system, your brain, that there’s more than enough.
1:01:58 We gave away 100% of the proceeds to limitless, to charity, to build schools, everywhere from
1:02:03 Ghana to Guatemala, to for teachers, to school buildings, to healthcare, clean water.
1:02:09 For the children, and also Alzheimer’s research for women, because women are twice as likely
1:02:11 to experience Alzheimer’s than men.
1:02:15 I lost my caregiver, my grandmother to Alzheimer’s, so we do it in her memory.
1:02:20 But I would say one of the best things you could do, chronic stress, shrinks your brain.
1:02:25 And one of the best ways to get out of stress is to contribute, is focus on somebody else.
1:02:30 And so how can you invest some of your time, your talent, your treasure, to making a difference?
1:02:33 Because it’s nice to make a dollar, and I think it’s better to make a difference.
1:02:37 And so, you know, when you could do both, I think it’s remarkable.
1:02:41 Be, do, have, and then share.
1:02:44 What a great way to end the interview, that was so powerful, Jim.
1:02:45 Amazing.
1:02:46 Be limitless, everybody.
1:02:58 [ Music ]

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0:01:13 The things you’re best at are the things that actually give you joy and energy that fill
0:01:14 you up.
0:01:18 But if you have a job where you’re called to do too many things you don’t like and you’re
0:01:21 not exercising your geniuses, that’s misery.
0:01:23 Let’s go over the six working geniuses.
0:01:24 What are they?
0:01:27 The first genius, it’s really important, it’s called the genius.
0:01:33 The second one is, after that comes, this is a really interesting one.
0:01:38 Too many people get fired from organizations where they’re good cultural fits, they’re
0:01:40 just in the wrong chair.
0:01:46 Are there certain working geniuses that make for better entrepreneurs than others?
0:01:47 Yes.
0:02:04 Yeah, fam, welcome back to the show.
0:02:08 I have to say, one of the most important things in life is to feel happy at work.
0:02:12 We spend so much time working and we need to make sure that we’re in jobs that bring
0:02:16 us joy, that bring us energy, and don’t suck the energy out of us.
0:02:22 Today, we’re going to be talking all about working geniuses and working frustrations.
0:02:25 If you’ve never heard of these phrases before, don’t worry about it because we have Patrick
0:02:31 Lenchoni, the inventor of these phrases, coming on the show today to break it down
0:02:32 for us.
0:02:35 Patrick Lenchoni is one of the most well-known business management authors.
0:02:40 He’s written over 12 best-selling business books, including his latest book called The
0:02:41 Six Working Geniuses.
0:02:45 We’re going to find out about all six working geniuses.
0:02:49 I’m sure as you guys are listening in, you’re going to be like, “Oh my god, that’s my working
0:02:50 genius.”
0:02:51 It’s pretty obvious once you listen.
0:02:56 If you want to find out for sure, you can go to youngandprofiting.co/work and take the
0:02:58 working genius assessment.
0:03:02 Patrick Lenchoni is an expert on team building, team efficiency.
0:03:08 He’s the CEO and founder of The Table Group, which is a consultancy that helps organizations
0:03:13 improve their operations, improve their company culture, as well as their team efficiencies.
0:03:16 Patrick is absolutely amazing.
0:03:17 I had such a great conversation with him.
0:03:21 We went for an hour and a half, so we’re actually splitting this episode into two parts.
0:03:24 Part one is going to be focused on the individual.
0:03:27 We really break down the definition of working geniuses.
0:03:33 We understand what competencies are, frustrations are, how we can deal with having to do the
0:03:38 things we don’t want to do at work, aka chew glass.
0:03:43 We talk about how these talents work together to put together a complete project.
0:03:48 We really focus on how, as individuals, we can leverage our working geniuses to elevate
0:03:51 our careers and be more happy at work.
0:03:54 Part two is really all about organizations and teams.
0:03:56 How is this relevant for teams?
0:03:58 How do we roll it out to organizations?
0:03:59 How do we identify gaps?
0:04:03 How do we improve our productivity, have better meetings, and so on?
0:04:04 I love this conversation.
0:04:05 It was so eye-opening.
0:04:09 I’m so excited to roll out working genius to my organization.
0:04:13 I took the assessment and I loved what I found out about myself.
0:04:18 It was really helpful for me to figure out where I really need to focus and outsource
0:04:21 and lean into the strengths that I have.
0:04:24 I think you guys are going to love this conversation as much as I did.
0:04:27 Without further ado, here’s part one with Patrick Lynchoni.
0:04:31 Patrick, welcome to Young and Profiting Podcast.
0:04:32 It’s great to be here.
0:04:33 Thanks.
0:04:34 It will be fun.
0:04:35 I am so excited.
0:04:37 You are a legend in the management space.
0:04:41 You’ve been writing, speaking, and consulting on organizational health and team effectiveness
0:04:45 for 25 years now with the table group.
0:04:46 You’re a founder.
0:04:48 You’re an entrepreneur.
0:04:53 Even though you love your job, you love your industry, you’ve still been frustrated at
0:04:55 times at work.
0:05:00 I can relate here because I’m the CEO and founder of a company that I love called Yap
0:05:01 Media.
0:05:05 I’ve been living my dream as a podcaster, selling sponsorships and running people’s
0:05:09 social media, but even me, it’s like a roller coaster.
0:05:14 Even in the same day, I might be finding joy, and then at the same time, I’m frustrated.
0:05:18 I know that I love my job, but it’s still frustrating.
0:05:19 Let’s talk about you.
0:05:25 Take us back to this time where you were frustrating as the CEO and founder of your organization.
0:05:30 What were you feeling and what were some of the insights that you gleaned from this experience?
0:05:35 Well, Hala, it only lasted for about 20 years, and I didn’t understand it because I loved
0:05:36 the people I worked with.
0:05:39 I loved what I did, and I’d come to work excited.
0:05:40 I didn’t have the Sunday blues.
0:05:46 I liked my work, but then I would get there and then I’d be really happy in one moment
0:05:47 and then frustrated another.
0:05:49 This went on for a long time and I never got it.
0:05:53 Finally, one day, one of my colleagues said, “What’s going on with you when that happens?”
0:05:56 I said, “I don’t know, but I want to figure it out.”
0:05:58 I sat there for the next four hours, God willing.
0:05:59 It was amazing.
0:06:02 I don’t quite remember what happened, but I was right in at a whiteboard.
0:06:03 That’s what I do.
0:06:08 I like to come up with things, and I realized that there were six different kinds of work
0:06:10 that needed to get done in our company.
0:06:15 I really loved two of them, and every day I came to work excited to do those, and then
0:06:18 I’d get dragged into doing something else that I didn’t really like.
0:06:22 People thought, “Well, you have to do that because you’re the leader and the CEO.”
0:06:26 But as it turned out, I didn’t, but I was constantly getting sucked into that.
0:06:29 That’s when I came up with this model, but I wasn’t trying to come up with the model.
0:06:32 I was just trying to explain my own frustration.
0:06:36 We had one of our consultants saw it, and then he met with the CEO the next day.
0:06:39 The CEO was complaining about something, and he was frustrated, and he explained the model
0:06:44 to him, and the guy had tears in his eyes, and he was like, “Oh, wow, this is my thing.”
0:06:48 We realized there’s something universally applicable here, and we built an assessment
0:06:51 in the next three months, and released it.
0:06:56 Without a lot of fanfare or advertising, it took off, and there was something universal
0:06:57 about that.
0:06:59 It’s like a million people take this assessment.
0:07:04 It’s growing faster than anything I’ve ever done, and we are hearing from people how it’s
0:07:08 changing their lives and allowing them to do what they’re meant to do, what God made
0:07:11 them to do, rather than the things that they thought they were supposed to be doing that
0:07:13 weren’t good for them.
0:07:14 That’s the story.
0:07:15 It was by accident.
0:07:18 Most of the things I do are by accident, just being out in the field.
0:07:19 That’s what happened.
0:07:25 Patrick’s referring to the working genius assessment, so it’s called working genius.
0:07:31 Talk to us about everybody’s God-given talents, and why you believe that people are more fulfilled
0:07:36 and successful when they’re leaning into their God-given talents.
0:07:37 It’s interesting because I take all the assessments.
0:07:39 Over the years, I’ve taken Myers-Briggs and disc.
0:07:40 I like them all.
0:07:44 We use them in our practice in consulting the CEOs and their teams, but there was never
0:07:46 any that was really about what you did.
0:07:52 There were more personality or perspective, and this is about the actual tasks you like
0:07:53 to do.
0:07:56 What it comes down to is joy and energy.
0:07:58 What fills you with joy and energy?
0:08:03 Sometimes we can get good at things we don’t actually like, and I did that in my life because
0:08:07 when you need to achieve, whether you do that because of wounds or because you really want
0:08:12 to, you get good at things you don’t like, but the things you’re best at are the things
0:08:16 that actually give you joy and energy that fill you up.
0:08:20 The things that you can spend 12 hours doing in a day and go home and feel like, “What
0:08:21 a great day.
0:08:22 I feel energized.”
0:08:27 And the other things that I don’t like, I can do for three hours in a day and get really
0:08:29 tired and really frustrated.
0:08:31 So that’s what this is about.
0:08:36 It’s about how to identify the things that we were put here to enjoy.
0:08:39 We still have to do things that we don’t love sometimes, but if you have a job where
0:08:45 you’re called to do too many things you don’t like, and you’re not exercising your geniuses,
0:08:46 that’s misery.
0:08:50 I don’t believe God put us here to be miserable in our work.
0:08:56 How do you feel like the pandemic made all of this more exacerbated?
0:09:01 How did it make it worse in terms of us with our working geniuses and talents and having
0:09:04 to work together as teams?
0:09:05 I love flexibility at work.
0:09:10 I do love flexibility work, but I think people are meant to be together.
0:09:14 And yes, there are some jobs that you can do remotely sometimes, and I love that people
0:09:18 can stay home with their kids sometimes or work from the road and all those things.
0:09:24 But the fact that we went all in on remote work, I think really deprived people of the
0:09:29 range of interactions that they needed to build relationships and to derive the sense
0:09:32 of fulfillment that they need from work.
0:09:36 And there are certain places that are still operating as though that exists, and morale
0:09:39 and productivity have not recovered in those places.
0:09:44 I think we are meant to spend a good portion of our working time together.
0:09:47 Now, that doesn’t mean that there are some jobs that have to be remote.
0:09:48 That’s great.
0:09:52 I have learned how to have productive Zoom calls and do things remotely, but there is
0:09:57 still no complete substitute for doing what you love and doing it in a room with other
0:09:59 people that you care about.
0:10:00 I agree.
0:10:05 I have a fully remote team, and I think it’s hard for some folks, and especially in this
0:10:08 day and age, we’ve got to learn how to work together online.
0:10:13 And a lot of things that I took away from this assessment, I feel like I can implement
0:10:15 even though I have a remote team.
0:10:17 I’m super excited about that.
0:10:18 Absolutely.
0:10:24 And there are healthier teams that work remotely than teams that are together that are dysfunctional.
0:10:28 So really becoming a functional team, which is what my career has been about, is helping
0:10:29 teams get more functional.
0:10:32 That is more important than whether you’re remote or not.
0:10:38 And we learned how to do some really amazing things on Zoom, like engage in healthy conflict,
0:10:42 like really have deep creative conversations.
0:10:46 It’s harder to do remotely, but it can be done.
0:10:51 But all things being equal, I think that spending time with each other, it is an advantage if
0:10:52 you can make it work.
0:10:53 It is.
0:10:54 Okay.
0:10:56 So like all good entrepreneurs, you had a problem yourself.
0:11:00 You went about to solve that problem, and then you decided you were going to scale it
0:11:03 out and give your learnings to other people.
0:11:07 So you put out this book called The Six Types of Working Genius, and you have this working
0:11:08 genius assessment.
0:11:11 I took the assessment, so I can’t wait to go over my results.
0:11:15 But first, I want to understand these six working geniuses.
0:11:17 I want to understand more about them.
0:11:20 Can you define what a working genius is exactly?
0:11:21 Right.
0:11:24 And there’s six of them, so there’s six possibilities.
0:11:28 But only two are what we call our own working genius, the ones where we get joy and energy.
0:11:33 I like to say, if you’re pouring coffee in a cup, and it wear a yeti mug, and you screw
0:11:36 the lid on tight, your working genius will hold that energy all day.
0:11:40 There’s two others that are in the middle, which we would call your working competencies.
0:11:42 And I know yours, because I look to your thing.
0:11:44 And those are things we don’t hate doing them.
0:11:46 We can do them fairly well.
0:11:48 They’re like pouring coffee into a cup and putting a little plastic lid on it.
0:11:51 It’ll stay warm for a while, and so we could do that.
0:11:55 But then there’s these two that are called our working frustrations, which is like pouring
0:11:58 coffee into a cup that has a hole in the bottom.
0:12:01 And our energy and our joy are just drained by those.
0:12:05 There’s these six categories, which I’ll explain in a second.
0:12:10 And everyone has two that they love, two that are okay, and two that they really struggle
0:12:11 with.
0:12:15 And if we don’t know what those are, then the best chance we have at enjoying our work
0:12:18 and fulfilling our potential is kind of a crapshoot.
0:12:22 The first job I took out of college was the best job in America at the time, and it was
0:12:24 totally wrong for me.
0:12:29 And I did not understand why I struggled, why I wasn’t happy, and why those two years
0:12:31 went by like 10 years.
0:12:35 And it was because I look back now and I realize I was doing exactly the things I wasn’t meant
0:12:36 to do.
0:12:37 It’s so interesting.
0:12:41 When I was looking at my assessment, I felt, we’ll go into this later, I actually felt
0:12:49 like some of my competencies and frustrations I used to be better at when I wasn’t necessarily
0:12:52 an entrepreneur with all of these responsibilities.
0:12:56 So I actually felt like they changed over time.
0:12:57 Here’s what we found.
0:13:03 We think you’re born with these, but I felt the same way you did because I used to be really
0:13:07 good at things that I would have preferred not to do, but in order to be successful,
0:13:09 I had to make myself.
0:13:14 And when we talk about these things, we had a guy once come on and one of the geniuses
0:13:17 is called tenacity, which is the finishing of things, okay?
0:13:20 And that’s neither your nor my genius.
0:13:24 We like to start things, but the last stage of things and finishing things and grinding
0:13:26 toward the end isn’t our favorite thing.
0:13:28 And this guy said, “Hey, I’m a doctor.
0:13:29 I went to med school.
0:13:32 If I got through med school, this must be one of my geniuses because I did really well.”
0:13:36 And we asked him one question that, “Did you like it?
0:13:37 Did you enjoy that?”
0:13:38 He goes, “No, I hated it.
0:13:39 I couldn’t wait for it to be over.”
0:13:43 We said, “Yeah, there’s a difference between succeeding at something, even if it drains
0:13:45 you of your joy and energy.”
0:13:47 And right away, he goes, “Oh yeah, it’s definitely not my genius.”
0:13:50 So sometimes people have to say, “Yeah, I did that.
0:13:52 I did it because I had a goal in mind.
0:13:56 I want to do accomplish something, but it didn’t really feed me.
0:13:58 And I think the things that feed us were born with.
0:14:03 I remember as a kid, my geniuses, I didn’t get to exercise them, and it frustrated me,
0:14:06 and I didn’t even realize it until I became an adult and came up with this.
0:14:07 I love it.
0:14:12 I feel like my assessment described me to a T. Let’s go over the six working geniuses.
0:14:13 What are they?
0:14:17 So the first one, we’re going to start with our head up in the clouds.
0:14:22 We’re going to go from the highest altitude down to the most practical on the ground.
0:14:24 And it’s kind of how the flow of work happens.
0:14:29 So the first genius, you and I don’t have this genius, but it’s really important.
0:14:33 It’s called the Genius of Wonder, and it happens at 60,000 feet ahead in the clouds.
0:14:36 And this is a genius that most people don’t even think of as a genius.
0:14:39 In fact, they were probably told not to do it most of their life.
0:14:41 And it’s called the Genius of Wonder.
0:14:44 And people with the Genius of Wonder ponder things.
0:14:48 They can sit and think about things and ask questions.
0:14:51 Without an answer, they’re like, “Is there a better solution out there?
0:14:53 Are our customers happy?
0:14:56 Why are things like this?
0:14:57 What’s the point of all this?”
0:15:03 Where every new idea ultimately starts is somebody asks the question, “Why is it like
0:15:04 this?”
0:15:08 This model came about because one of my colleagues who had wonder said, “Why are you like that,
0:15:09 Pat?
0:15:13 I’m curious as to why you get frustrated and why you’re happy.”
0:15:18 And somebody asks the question, “My wife is a wonderer, and she is constantly asking
0:15:20 the big questions.”
0:15:23 And when you’re young and you do this, your teachers tell you to stop, and they’re like,
0:15:26 “Why aren’t you on board, and why are you still asking questions?”
0:15:31 This is a critical genius, and most people that have it have never really been understood
0:15:32 or rewarded for it.
0:15:35 This is probably the most mysterious of them all.
0:15:36 That’s the first one.
0:15:39 The second one is the person who comes along, and this is you and I share this genius.
0:15:41 And that’s the Genius of Invention.
0:15:43 When somebody asks the question, “Why are things like this?”
0:15:45 We go, “I don’t know, but I’m going to figure it out.”
0:15:50 And we get a whiteboard and a pen and no restriction, and we love to come up with new ideas and
0:15:52 solutions out of nothing.
0:15:57 And what I thought is, everybody liked that, and there are people that hate that.
0:16:00 When I asked them to do that at work in my office, they’re like, “I hate that.
0:16:01 I have none.”
0:16:05 That’s their frustration, and that’s one of the things we realize is that one man or
0:16:08 woman’s trash is another man or woman’s treasure.
0:16:12 The very things I love, other people are like, “Please don’t make me ever do that.”
0:16:17 So wonder starts at the question, invention comes up with that new idea, and those two
0:16:20 are what’s called ideation, the first two.
0:16:23 After that comes what we call discernment.
0:16:25 This is a really interesting one.
0:16:30 Discernment is people that have the Genius of Instinct and Intuition and Gut Feel, and
0:16:33 they look at something, even something they don’t know about, and they have this way of
0:16:36 thinking that they can kind of identify the right thing.
0:16:40 It’s like those people that you ask for advice about everything.
0:16:41 We have one in my office.
0:16:42 Her name is Tracy.
0:16:44 She has great discernment.
0:16:46 People are constantly saying, “Well, ask Tracy.
0:16:47 Should you refinance your house?
0:16:48 Ask Tracy.
0:16:50 Should we go to Europe on vacation this year?
0:16:51 Well, ask Tracy what she thinks.”
0:16:54 My wife will say, “Dude, does this look good for this thing I’m doing?”
0:16:56 She goes, “Ask Tracy.”
0:16:59 Tracy said when she was a little girl, all of her friends did that too.
0:17:04 She just has this amazing gut feel about things that everybody trusts.
0:17:06 It’s pattern recognition.
0:17:07 It’s not linear thinking.
0:17:10 It’s being able to look at something and go, “Yeah, that’s the right answer.”
0:17:12 She’s the editor of my books.
0:17:13 She never studied that.
0:17:17 When I write a chapter in a book and I send it to her, if she says, “This is a great
0:17:18 chapter,” I know it’s true.
0:17:22 If she goes, “This doesn’t make any sense to me,” I’m like, “I’m going to rewrite
0:17:24 it even if I disagree.”
0:17:25 Discernment is the third one.
0:17:27 The next one after that is your other genius.
0:17:30 It’s called galvanizing.
0:17:33 Galvanizing is people that get joy and energy out of getting up in front of people and inspiring
0:17:39 them and encouraging them and exhorting them and rallying the troops.
0:17:41 Some people love to do that.
0:17:43 As it turns out, I don’t.
0:17:47 I can come on a podcast and talk about it once, but I’m not good at keep pushing and
0:17:50 keep people going.
0:17:53 That’s what led to this model because every day I’d come to work and my staff would go
0:17:54 galvanize us.
0:17:55 They didn’t use those words.
0:17:56 They would galvanize us.
0:18:00 I was like, “Oh, gosh, I’m so tired of this.”
0:18:04 Yet there’s people like you and there was a guy in my office who go, “Oh, I’ll do that
0:18:05 every day.”
0:18:09 I made him my chief galvanizing officer and said, “You’re going to do that.”
0:18:12 He’s like, “Do I really have the authority to do that?”
0:18:13 I said, “No, no, no.
0:18:14 It’s a gift.
0:18:16 It’s a gift that you’re good at.”
0:18:18 His job satisfaction went way up.
0:18:22 So did mine and the productivity of our office changed overnight.
0:18:24 Galvanizing is really important.
0:18:26 The next two are what we call implementation.
0:18:29 The next one is called enablement.
0:18:32 I don’t have this one and neither do you, according to your report.
0:18:34 It’s a working frustration for us.
0:18:35 That means this.
0:18:37 It’s really important to understand this.
0:18:41 Enablement, there are people who wake up in the morning and say, “I just want people
0:18:42 to ask me for help.”
0:18:46 Now, you and I love to give people advice and get them excited, but we don’t necessarily
0:18:48 want to help people on the terms that they need.
0:18:52 If my wife says, “I need your help,” the first thing I do is like, “Whoa, wait, wait.
0:18:53 What kind of help?”
0:18:56 And if it’s the kind of help that I love to do, then I’m like, “Yes.”
0:18:59 But she says, “I just want you to do what I ask you to do.”
0:19:04 I actually kind of willed and I feel really guilty like I’m supposed to be a good person,
0:19:09 but there are people in the world and they are glue on teams and you’ll know people in
0:19:14 your organization that are like this who just love, they get joy and energy of just being
0:19:16 asked to help.
0:19:18 And they say, “Yes, they’re the first to volunteer.
0:19:19 Whatever you need, I’ll do it.”
0:19:21 “Yep, I’m on board.
0:19:22 Let’s get started.”
0:19:23 And we love them.
0:19:26 We need them, but we don’t all have that.
0:19:33 So enablement is the fifth genius and the last one is tenacity.
0:19:34 And that is, it’s one thing to want to help.
0:19:36 It’s another thing to want to finish.
0:19:42 People with tenacity love to make their numbers and drive closure and hit the goal.
0:19:48 And in fact, they’re not actually happy unless they’re completing things.
0:19:52 And I’m actually only happy if I’m starting things.
0:19:55 And then I move on to the next thing before it’s finished.
0:19:56 So that’s the sixth one.
0:19:59 It spells widget, which was kind of an accident.
0:20:05 It goes from wonder to invention to discernment to galvanizing to enablement to tenacity.
0:20:09 And those are the six types of working genius.
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0:23:41 Young Improfiters, I spent years slaving away in so many different jobs trying to prove myself,
0:23:45 trying to figure out what gave me joy at work and trying to build productive teams.
0:23:48 Eventually, I figured it all out.
0:23:52 But what if you could learn that stuff about yourself and your team in a fraction of the
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0:24:18 what your working geniuses really are.
0:24:23 The working genius assessment only takes 10 minutes and the results can be applied immediately.
0:24:28 I took the assessment and my two primary working geniuses are inventing and galvanizing.
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0:25:22 So cool and I really do feel like it really describes people accurately.
0:25:25 Every time you’re saying that, I’m like, “Oh, that fits Kate, that fits Jason.”
0:25:30 You start to think, “Oh, she’s got these two,” and it makes a lot of sense.
0:25:34 Let’s go on to my results selfishly.
0:25:40 I was invention and galvanizing, which totally makes sense because my whole life I’ve been
0:25:45 inventing things, starting businesses since I was four, I’m president of everything.
0:25:51 My whole life started so many charity organizations and different companies, blog sites, you name
0:25:52 it.
0:25:55 I just always have a team of 50 around me, no matter what I’m doing, even if I’m not
0:25:56 paying people.
0:25:57 It’s crazy.
0:26:01 I’m just really good at motivating people and thinking of new ideas my whole life.
0:26:02 It’s your genius.
0:26:03 It’s me.
0:26:06 And I feel like it’s very entrepreneurial.
0:26:14 So I did want to ask you, are there certain working geniuses that are more entrepreneurial
0:26:18 or make for better entrepreneurs than others?
0:26:22 Entrepreneurship requires every genius, but the people that start things, the ones that
0:26:29 get it going right away, that serial entrepreneur that really sparks the idea, your type is
0:26:30 perfect for that.
0:26:35 But now, without people with tenacity around you, and that’s what a genius of yours is
0:26:39 surrounding yourself with people that do things well that you don’t.
0:26:41 So entrepreneurship, you need people who finish things.
0:26:43 You need people that come alongside and help.
0:26:45 You need people that ask the questions.
0:26:49 But your thing at the heart of entrepreneurship, it’s like, I have an idea and I’m going to
0:26:51 get out there and I’m going to share it with people.
0:26:54 And I’m going to ask people for their help.
0:26:59 So I would say your type is about the tip of the spear on entrepreneurship in many ways.
0:27:04 But you need to surround yourself by people that do the things that aren’t your favorite.
0:27:08 So when you think about a startup company, for instance, let’s say five people get together
0:27:09 to start a company.
0:27:11 If they’re all your type, it’s going to fail.
0:27:12 Yeah.
0:27:13 Right?
0:27:16 Because they’re all going to want to do the same things.
0:27:19 And I’ve seen this in the Silicon Valley before because I’ve done a lot of work there.
0:27:21 I live in the Bay Area.
0:27:24 And there’s these companies that get together and everybody wants to be an entrepreneur and
0:27:29 nobody wants to be the one to, no, I want to just crank.
0:27:32 I want to take inspiration from you and then deliver on that.
0:27:39 And if you don’t have that diversity on your team, it’s not going to work totally.
0:27:40 It’s like a band.
0:27:44 If everybody wants to be the songwriter and the lead singer, it doesn’t work.
0:27:47 And the drummer has a different thing and the keyboards do a different thing.
0:27:51 And usually that corresponds to some working genius.
0:27:54 So it’s a really interesting thing how we all need them.
0:27:58 But the tip of the spear and entrepreneurship in IG is perfect.
0:27:59 I love that.
0:28:00 I love hearing that.
0:28:03 I think it’s a good fit to be an entrepreneur because it’s what I’m doing.
0:28:06 So I have working competencies.
0:28:09 These are different than frustrations, different than my working genius.
0:28:13 And these are things that I actually feel like I’m really good at, to be honest.
0:28:19 So my working competencies were tenacity and discernment, which especially tenacity.
0:28:24 I get shit done, sorry for my language for like, I get my stuff done and I love getting
0:28:26 stuff done.
0:28:30 So I was curious to understand, why is it only two working geniuses?
0:28:32 And what are we supposed to do with our competencies?
0:28:33 Are we supposed to try to make them strengths?
0:28:35 Are we supposed to just leave them alone?
0:28:36 How should we handle it?
0:28:40 Don’t try to make them stronger than they are because people do that too often.
0:28:43 When Michael Jordan got out of college, he spent his first two years in the pros.
0:28:46 He was really good at defense and dunking the ball and going to the hoop.
0:28:49 And people said, well, should we then make him become a great shooter?
0:28:54 And people said, no, no, no, make him continue to work on his strengths.
0:28:57 He will become a great shooter because he won’t feel like that defines him and he’ll
0:29:00 do that without pressing.
0:29:02 So you’re going to be good at those things.
0:29:06 And the fact that those are your competencies is really important because you are not allergic
0:29:11 to finishing things and you’re not allergic to evaluating things in discernment.
0:29:16 But the thing is, if I made you do finish things and you had no input into the innovation
0:29:21 around it and getting people excited and your job was just to crank, you’d realize that
0:29:26 that would exhaust you after a while.
0:29:27 Got it.
0:29:28 That makes a lot of sense.
0:29:33 So it’s something that you don’t mind doing, especially if it’s in service of the idea
0:29:35 you came up with and helping people rally around it.
0:29:39 But to do that in a vacuum would be painful for you.
0:29:40 That makes a lot, a lot of sense.
0:29:41 Okay.
0:29:44 So my working frustrations were enablement and wonder.
0:29:51 The enablement part was so eye-opening for me because as of now, I have a 60-person team
0:29:56 and I’m still hands on managing my sales and marketing team, but I’m also the CEO and founder
0:29:57 of the company.
0:30:02 So I’m the CEO/CMO sales leader of my company.
0:30:10 Now I find that as of now, today in 2024, I’m a different type of leader where I just
0:30:13 can’t handhold anyone anymore.
0:30:18 And anybody who’s not a rock star, who’s not moving as fast as me, I’m just sorry, you’re
0:30:19 slowing me down.
0:30:25 I’m pulling you in now because you’re getting it and this person’s off to the side.
0:30:26 But I wasn’t always like that.
0:30:32 I started with a team of interns and volunteers and I used to handhold everyone and teach everybody
0:30:34 everything and be very, very patient.
0:30:36 And now it’s just have different responsibility.
0:30:39 I just can’t be that person anymore.
0:30:43 So it made me realize that I need to get some sort of middle manager between some of these
0:30:49 employees and made me realize how valuable my business partner Kate is, who is super
0:30:53 patient and I know if she took this assessment, she would have enablement.
0:30:54 Exactly.
0:30:57 And that’s the thing about this assessment is that 10 minutes after getting the results
0:30:59 back, you go, “I got it.”
0:31:01 It makes sense and you know what to do.
0:31:06 We’ve seen companies reorganize and I don’t just mean the titles and reorganize how work
0:31:07 gets done.
0:31:11 They look at this and they go, “Oh my gosh, we’re not even tapping into that genius of
0:31:12 yours.”
0:31:13 And the people are like, “I know.
0:31:15 I’d be so much happier.”
0:31:17 And you’re looking at your people going, “They have enablement.
0:31:21 That is allowing me to do what I do best and I know that I have somebody else who’s going
0:31:25 to be helpful and listening and patient with everybody and all that.”
0:31:29 But if everybody had that, you wouldn’t get things done either.
0:31:32 The word diversity in this is so critical.
0:31:37 Now the other genius that’s a frustration for you is wonder, which is if people just
0:31:42 sit around and ask questions and ponder things and don’t have a bias for getting something
0:31:44 done, that’s probably frustrating to you.
0:31:48 I was thinking through this and I was like, “Man, I hope I’m just not this egotistical
0:31:50 founder because I’m like, “I think I have all these.”
0:31:52 With wonder, I’m just like, “I know what to do.
0:31:53 I don’t need to wonder about it.
0:31:55 I know how to push my business forward.
0:31:57 I don’t need to wonder about everything.”
0:32:00 Yeah, or five minutes of wonder.
0:32:01 That’s enough.
0:32:02 Here we go.
0:32:03 Exactly, exactly.
0:32:08 Well, I will tell you something to go a little level deeper, which is a new book I’m working
0:32:13 on something right now, and that is sometimes because of the way we’re raised, we have this
0:32:15 desire to achieve.
0:32:21 I had this growing up, and I was actually really good at the things I hated.
0:32:26 The first job I got out of college was a job organized around the very things I liked least.
0:32:31 But because I had this achievement mentality, it was like, “Then I am going to do it.”
0:32:35 I’ve come to realize now that I have wounds, that I didn’t even know were wounds.
0:32:37 I thought they were my superpowers.
0:32:42 You’re young, and you’re like, “I can power through anything,” and that doesn’t mean we’re
0:32:44 meant to.
0:32:49 As you understand, your genius is more, “It’ll be nice for you to be able to go.
0:32:51 I don’t have to be good at that.”
0:32:54 But for the longest time, when I was young, I was doing all the things I didn’t necessarily
0:32:57 like, and I said, “See, I’m pretty good at this.”
0:32:58 Yeah.
0:33:01 Sometimes we have to to get the experiences.
0:33:02 Absolutely.
0:33:03 Absolutely.
0:33:06 And then you’re going to be a parent, and you’ve got to do everything.
0:33:09 I can’t go, “Well, my kid’s diapers need to be changed.
0:33:12 I’m not a T. I don’t finish things, so I guess I’m not going to do that.”
0:33:13 No, no.
0:33:17 There are certain things in life, and in fact, even in any job, every CEO, every leader has
0:33:19 to do all of them a little bit.
0:33:24 But if they overindex on the ones that drain them of energy and they don’t give themselves
0:33:30 the experience of spending a lot of time in their genius, it’s really bad.
0:33:34 It’s really bad burnout, and really, I think a lot of addiction comes from that, a lot
0:33:39 of really difficult things, because we are meant to exercise the gifts we’ve been given.
0:33:40 Yeah.
0:33:42 And entrepreneurs are more prone to burnout.
0:33:48 25% of entrepreneurs are more have burnout, more prone to depression, addiction to your
0:33:49 point, anxiety, stress.
0:33:54 So we do need to manage our energy levels, which is what this assessment is all about.
0:33:55 Yes.
0:34:01 And we need to not feel guilty about not loving every part of what we’re supposed to do.
0:34:04 One of the things on our assessment, a team of five people, like if you’re having a law
0:34:07 entrepreneurial organization, all five of them can take it and they can look at it and they’re
0:34:10 going to go, “Oh, my gosh, you mean you like that?
0:34:12 Oh, you do like that.
0:34:13 Would you do that instead of me?”
0:34:18 And I could take this off your plate, and literally, this is more of a productivity tool.
0:34:19 We didn’t design it that way.
0:34:24 We thought it was just a personal understanding insight, but we’ve seen that when five people
0:34:29 that work together each understand one another’s geniuses and frustrations and competencies,
0:34:34 they adjust and everybody gets to do more of what they love, and the productivity and
0:34:37 success goes through the roof, and that happens like in an hour.
0:34:41 They look at this and go, “Holy Toledo, I know what we need to do.”
0:34:44 So let’s talk about how people can take this assessment.
0:34:47 Young and Profiters, I highly encourage you guys to check this out.
0:34:48 It takes 10 to 15 minutes.
0:34:52 You can go to youngandprofiting.co/work to take it.
0:34:53 It’s a 42-question survey.
0:34:55 I literally did it in 10 minutes.
0:35:00 You get your results right away, and like I said, it’s eye-opening.
0:35:03 As soon as I read the report, I was like, “This sounds exactly like me, and I know exactly
0:35:05 what I need to do.”
0:35:09 Can you talk to us about how do people utilize their results typically?
0:35:14 Well, first of all, if anybody took math, I didn’t remember how to do permutations and
0:35:15 combinations.
0:35:19 Because there’s six geniuses, it means there’s 15 pairings.
0:35:22 Your pairing is what’s called the evangelistic innovator.
0:35:24 You like to come up with new ideas and evangelize them.
0:35:27 You have energy for those, and everyone has a two-word descriptor, and these are the things
0:35:31 people look at and go, “Oh, my gosh, that’s exactly who I am.”
0:35:32 And what should you do with that?
0:35:35 The first thing you should do is you should share it with the people you work with and
0:35:37 the people you live with.
0:35:42 Because it’s going to help them avoid what we call the fundamental attribution error.
0:35:45 And the fundamental attribution error is when you do something that I find annoying, Hala,
0:35:48 I will attribute to your character.
0:35:51 But if I do something that causes people to think I’m annoying, I’ll attribute it to
0:35:52 my environment.
0:35:53 And this is where relationships break down.
0:35:56 I need to go, “Oh, you’re wired that way.
0:36:02 You’re constantly excited and exuberant about all these ideas, not because there’s something
0:36:03 wrong with you, because that’s who you are.”
0:36:06 Whereas some people can go, “Gosh, that’s so annoying.”
0:36:10 Well, we all do things that are wonderful and annoying, and it’s because of how we’re
0:36:11 wired.
0:36:14 And when we understand that about each other, we actually start to under—the prayer of
0:36:17 St. Francis is to seek to understand more than to be understood.
0:36:18 So we seek to understand one another.
0:36:22 The other thing you should do is talk to your manager about it, or talk to your colleagues
0:36:23 about it.
0:36:28 We had a guy who called us and said he was going in for his performance review, and he
0:36:30 knew it was going to be bad.
0:36:32 He had had a bad year.
0:36:35 And the night before, he took his working genius and he looked at the results and he
0:36:36 was like, “Oh, wow.”
0:36:37 He walked into the room.
0:36:39 He handed it to his boss and his boss’s boss.
0:36:40 I think they’re both there.
0:36:43 And he said, “Would you guys look at this before we go over this?”
0:36:46 And they looked at it and they were like, “Oh, my gosh, you’re totally in the wrong job.”
0:36:47 And he goes, “Yeah, I think so too.”
0:36:51 And they’re like, “You know, we have another job that you’d be great at.”
0:36:56 And he said, “I spent $25 on this darn assessment.
0:36:58 Showed it to my boss and I got promoted instead of fired.”
0:36:59 Oh, my God.
0:37:04 Too many people get fired from organizations where they’re good cultural fits.
0:37:06 They’re just in the wrong chair.
0:37:10 And it’s so hard for managers to know, like, “What’s wrong with this person?”
0:37:15 We had a CEO, Hala, who was going to fire his head of sales, this wonderful woman, who
0:37:17 was a good cultural fit.
0:37:21 And she had made her numbers and her staff loved her and the customers loved her.
0:37:22 She was fantastic.
0:37:26 But then the market changed, as they always do, and entrepreneurs know this better than
0:37:27 anyone.
0:37:30 And when the market changed, he said to her, “Hey, we need a whole new sales strategy.”
0:37:32 And she was dumbfounded.
0:37:33 She was stumped.
0:37:34 And he kept going back to her.
0:37:35 So did you come up with it?
0:37:36 And she goes, “No, I got nothing.”
0:37:39 And he goes, “I was about to let her go.”
0:37:43 And we did the working genius and I realized she had no invention at all.
0:37:45 She was all about implementation.
0:37:46 She had enablement.
0:37:47 Her staff loved her.
0:37:50 Her customers loved her because she was always responsible.
0:37:54 She was a tenacity, so she made her numbers, delivered on what they said.
0:37:56 But she didn’t have invention.
0:37:59 So they borrowed a guy from marketing to come work with her.
0:38:01 And in three hours, they came up with a new sales strategy.
0:38:04 He said, “I almost fired one of my best people.”
0:38:08 And leaders do this all the time because I couldn’t understand that she’s not great
0:38:09 at everything.
0:38:15 And that we can borrow skills from other people or work across divisions or change people’s
0:38:17 roles to fit their geniuses.
0:38:23 So I think this could be such a good way to avoid losing good people, over hiring when
0:38:27 we have people in our organizations that aren’t being fully tapped.
0:38:32 And so we’re finding that this is growing faster than anything, Hala, that I’ve ever
0:38:33 done.
0:38:37 And it’s having a greater impact on organizations and people in their lives than anything we’ve
0:38:38 ever worked on.
0:38:39 That’s crazy.
0:38:44 We’ll be right back after a quick break from our sponsors.
0:38:47 Young and Profiters, when I started my podcast, I had a volunteer team.
0:38:51 I was able to just go on social media, put up a post, recruit some interns, and it was
0:38:53 no big deal.
0:38:56 But as we scaled as a company, I need real A players.
0:39:00 I need people with experience, but we’re a small company.
0:39:02 And so I don’t have an HR team.
0:39:06 However, I found the secret sauce to hiring effectively with no HR team.
0:39:08 And the secret is Indeed.
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0:43:03 I’ll put the link in our show notes so you guys can get access to it.
0:43:09 And I want to talk about what we should do when we have to chew glass as entrepreneurs.
0:43:13 Here’s this famous quote from Seth Godin, Elon Musk, nobody knows who really came up
0:43:14 with this.
0:43:19 He said, “Running a startup is like chewing glass and staring into the abyss.”
0:43:24 And basically what Elon and Seth meant is that as an entrepreneur, you want to work
0:43:25 on all these new shiny things.
0:43:30 A lot of us are inventors, but you end up having to work on the problems of your business.
0:43:33 You have to chew glass, do the things you don’t want to do.
0:43:38 Like you said, entrepreneurs have to do this, and especially people young in their careers,
0:43:42 which I think there’s a lot of young people listening where they’re having to chew glass.
0:43:47 They can’t pick and choose what they can work on yet because they haven’t built that foundation.
0:43:55 So how can we manage our energy levels and suck up and do our frustrations at work or
0:43:57 working frustrations?
0:44:02 So much of working genius is about alleviating guilt and judgment.
0:44:07 So when you have to chew glass, what’s worse than having to chew glass is feeling like
0:44:10 there’s something wrong with you for not liking it.
0:44:14 When you have to do something and you go, “Oh crap, I have to go do a performance for you
0:44:20 or do enablement or do tenacity for us, enablement would be a good one,” instead of saying, “What’s
0:44:21 wrong with me?
0:44:24 I guess I’m a fraud or I should like this.”
0:44:28 It’s good to go, “Hey, this isn’t the thing I love, but I know I have to do it.
0:44:31 I’m going to go in there and do it, and I’m not going to feel bad about myself for not
0:44:32 loving it.”
0:44:34 Like in our office here, my son works with me.
0:44:36 He doesn’t like tenacity.
0:44:39 And so he’ll go into an office and go, “Hey, I’m going into the T-cave, you guys.
0:44:41 I got three hours of tenacity work to do.
0:44:43 I’m going to roll up my sleeves and do it.
0:44:46 I’m probably going to be kind of grumpy, and when I come out, I’ll probably be exhausted.”
0:44:48 And it’s his way of saying, “It’s important.
0:44:51 I’m going to do it well, but I don’t like it.”
0:44:55 And when you know that you’re allowed to say that, it’s like, “Yeah, I can do stuff
0:44:58 that I don’t like,” but if people are like, “What’s wrong with you?
0:45:00 You’re supposed to like doing the accounting.”
0:45:05 If you’re an entrepreneur, you’re supposed to love every part of your job.
0:45:08 But when you can go, “No, I actually hate this, but it’s necessary, I’m going to go
0:45:09 push through it.”
0:45:11 And if you don’t do it perfectly, you should go, “Yeah, I’m probably never going to do
0:45:12 it perfectly.
0:45:14 Some people actually love this stuff.”
0:45:17 So I really think it’s taking that guilt.
0:45:20 So when we’re chewing the glass, we can go, “Man, I can’t wait till this is done, so
0:45:22 I can go back and do the stuff I love.”
0:45:26 I could also imagine that it will help us just become aware that, “Hey, this is probably
0:45:32 something I’m going to procrastinate because I hate doing it, and let me put some boundaries
0:45:33 on myself.
0:45:36 Let me do like a Pomodero technique and time myself to do it.
0:45:37 Let me gamify this.
0:45:39 Let me do something to get it done.”
0:45:40 Exactly.
0:45:42 And we don’t need to do those things with the stuff we love.
0:45:43 Exactly.
0:45:46 And in fact, when we do those things with the stuff we love, it’s kind of a bummer because
0:45:48 we’re like, “Oh, no, don’t limit this.
0:45:49 Let me just enjoy my work.”
0:45:52 So I love the way you said it.
0:45:55 Find ways to get through it without making yourself feel like there’s something wrong
0:45:57 with you for not loving it.
0:46:00 So how do personality traits interact with working geniuses?
0:46:03 How is it different than personality traits?
0:46:05 This is a great question.
0:46:07 We’re really working on this right now.
0:46:11 We like Myers-Briggs, Strengths Finder, and all those other things.
0:46:12 Strengths Finder is interesting.
0:46:13 There’s so many of them.
0:46:14 It’s hard to remember.
0:46:18 But your personality as the noun is what you bring.
0:46:19 We use Myers-Briggs a lot.
0:46:22 My Myers-Briggs type doesn’t say what I like to do.
0:46:28 It says what my preferences are about how I think and how I just approach the world.
0:46:29 Working genius is what you do.
0:46:31 It’s the verb that goes with the noun.
0:46:36 And what’s interesting is, I know people that have my same Myers-Briggs type, my same personality,
0:46:42 like we’re extroverted and we’re idealists and we like to keep our options open, but
0:46:44 they have a completely different working genius.
0:46:49 They take that personality and then they actually get crap done and they like details around
0:46:50 that.
0:46:56 Whereas I am an ENFP, but I like to invent and discern things.
0:47:00 And so what we’ve realized is, so often we look at a person’s personality type and we
0:47:03 think that tells us what kind of job they should have.
0:47:05 And it doesn’t, not at all.
0:47:11 It tells you what generally motivates them in life, but not what that translates to in
0:47:15 terms of the role and what you do every day.
0:47:18 Because when we used to use Myers-Briggs, we were like, “So should I be in marketing
0:47:19 if I’m an ENFP?”
0:47:22 And we’re like, “Well, first of all, what do you mean by being in marketing?
0:47:24 And secondly, what do you love to do?”
0:47:29 And so it’s a very different and the combination of the two is great, but the thing that’s
0:47:33 really lacking out there is people don’t know the tasks that they love.
0:47:36 So I’m an evangelistic innovator.
0:47:41 What are you and what are some of the common pairings out there that people should be aware
0:47:42 of?
0:47:47 I’m an ID, which means I like innovating and discerning, which means I’m what’s called
0:47:49 a discriminating ideator.
0:47:50 Discriminating means this.
0:47:53 When I write, I’m an author, I’ve written a lot of books.
0:47:59 My first draft is usually pretty good, because while I’m innovating, while I’m writing, I’m
0:48:03 actually editing myself too, because that doesn’t make sense.
0:48:04 That doesn’t make sense.
0:48:07 I have so many good friends that are your type, and I love working with them.
0:48:10 They have a hundred ideas.
0:48:13 They’re constantly come up to them and they’ll check in with me and go, “Hey, can you discern
0:48:14 this for me?”
0:48:18 And then the discernment part, what you have in your competency is what says, “Hey, those
0:48:20 are the three that you should pursue.
0:48:23 Those other seven are okay, or these two wouldn’t work.”
0:48:26 To check in with a discerner and go, “Check me on this.
0:48:27 Does this sound right?”
0:48:29 And they’ll go, “Those are the three that you should pursue with abandon.”
0:48:32 So I am pretty good at figuring things out quickly.
0:48:38 But what I don’t do is, I don’t do what you do, which is stick with evangelizing it.
0:48:40 I need people around me that love to do that.
0:48:43 And when they’ll look at my idea and they’ll go, “That’s a great idea.”
0:48:44 I’m going to go out and tell the world about it.
0:48:46 I’m like, “Thank you.”
0:48:49 And I’m going to tell them again and again and again.
0:48:54 So I’m what’s called the discriminating ideator, which is more about the judgment than the
0:48:55 action.
0:48:56 Interesting.
0:49:01 And what are some of the other pairings that you have in this assessment?
0:49:05 If you’re a WI, which my wife is and some close friends of mine are, which are the first
0:49:09 two, which is all ideator, they’re called the creative dreamer.
0:49:11 And they’re just like, “You know what would be cool?
0:49:13 I have this idea.”
0:49:16 And you’re like, “Yeah, but we got to go tell the world about this.”
0:49:18 They’re like, “Oh, I don’t know.”
0:49:19 And they change their mind a lot.
0:49:23 They just love to stay up there at 60,000 feet, where you’re galvanizing as closer to
0:49:25 landing the plane.
0:49:28 And then on the other end of the scale, there’s the E and the T that are the implementers.
0:49:30 And that’s the loyal finisher.
0:49:33 The ET is the loyal finisher.
0:49:38 They love other people to set the direction, other people to get things organized.
0:49:41 And then they’re like, “I will do what you asked me to do and I won’t stop until it’s
0:49:42 done.”
0:49:48 And let me tell you, I love WIs and I loved ETs, but in the same meeting, it can be really
0:49:55 frustrating because if I’m having a brainstorming meeting, the WI is so happy.
0:49:57 And the ET is like, “I got work to do.
0:49:59 Can we just get through this?”
0:50:01 Or you’re brainstorming and they’re like, “Well, that’ll never work because the budget
0:50:02 doesn’t.”
0:50:03 And you’re like, “No, no, no.
0:50:04 You don’t have to implement it yet.”
0:50:08 Or if you go to an implementation meeting and the WI is there and you’re like the day
0:50:11 before the launch and the people are like, “Okay, this is what we need to get done.”
0:50:14 And the WI says, “Hey, I have an idea.
0:50:15 Maybe we should…”
0:50:16 And you’re like, “No, no, no.
0:50:17 This is not the time for new ideas.
0:50:19 We have to actually do this.”
0:50:24 So one of the things we say is when you’re in a meeting, identify what kind of conversation
0:50:25 you’re having.
0:50:30 This isn’t a GT meeting, which is we’re going to get stuff done, or this is a WD meeting
0:50:33 where we’re going to actually just throw things against the wall and evaluate them so that
0:50:38 people can go, “Oh, okay, I’m not very good at this, so I’ll sit back and be patient.”
0:50:42 Otherwise, people come to meetings and the ET wants to drive things to closure.
0:50:48 The WI wants to brainstorm and everybody’s pissed off because we didn’t really know what
0:50:51 kind of discussion we were having and they were just bringing their best selves to the
0:50:52 table.
0:50:53 Totally makes sense.
0:50:54 And I love that.
0:50:58 I love the fact that this assessment allows you to know more about your coworkers so that
0:51:01 you can’t be proactive and be like, “Okay, I’ve got two people that are going to be
0:51:05 opposites in this meeting and I don’t want to just spiral out of control, so let me just
0:51:09 set some boundaries before we even get started.”
0:51:13 You know what I love about this, Hala, is that you can also have conversations that
0:51:17 seemed dangerous or even offensive before.
0:51:21 You’re in a meeting and somebody will go, “You know, I wonder if we should rethink this.”
0:51:24 And somebody will go, “That’s your W, huh?
0:51:25 That’s not a criticism.”
0:51:26 It’s like, “Oh, this is your W coming out.”
0:51:27 And they’re like, “Yeah.”
0:51:30 And they go, “You know, I don’t think that we’re in a W place right now.
0:51:32 I think we should do that another time.”
0:51:33 And it’s not offensive.
0:51:36 They’re like, “Oh, okay, we’re actually meeting them where they’re at.”
0:51:40 And there’s another meeting where you’ll turn to somebody and go, “Hey, we need your W.
0:51:42 Are we doing the right thing?”
0:51:47 So it’s so great to be able to have those conversations or sometimes somebody’s being
0:51:50 too E and they’re too much trying to please people.
0:51:53 And you’re like, “Hey, you’re managing this person.
0:51:54 They’re not meeting their numbers.
0:51:55 We’ve had a problem.
0:51:59 You’re really patient, but maybe you’re being too accommodating.”
0:52:02 And that’s probably your enablement.
0:52:05 And so rather than saying there’s something wrong with you, it’s like you’re naturally
0:52:06 inclined to this.
0:52:09 We usually love that, but maybe it’s not appropriate here.
0:52:11 And people receive that really well.
0:52:14 They’re like, “Hey, you’re just recognizing me for who I am.”
0:52:15 Yeah.
0:52:20 I could imagine that that would lead to a lot more employee satisfaction and retention.
0:52:22 People just being happier at work.
0:52:23 Absolutely.
0:52:26 And usually in an organization, there’s a place for everybody if you know what they
0:52:27 are.
0:52:31 And if you have a small organization and there’s only a few people there, you’re an entrepreneur
0:52:34 and somebody’s geniuses don’t line up with what you need, instead of rejecting them and
0:52:36 making them feel like a bad person.
0:52:41 What you say is, “Hey, you know, you really should use these skills, and we don’t have
0:52:44 a role for you here to do that, but you’re meant to use them.
0:52:47 So we’re not saying you’re not a good person.
0:52:51 We’re just going to help you find a place where you can be who you are, as opposed to
0:52:54 trying to justify it by saying, “Well, you didn’t deliver.
0:52:55 Like there’s something wrong with you.”
0:53:00 I will tell you, Hala, that first job I had for two years, which was right out of college,
0:53:02 and it was the number one job in America.
0:53:05 Somebody wrote a book that you’re the best places to work in America for college grads.
0:53:07 And this was listed as number one.
0:53:08 And I got the job.
0:53:10 I don’t know how.
0:53:13 And it was all wrong for me.
0:53:14 I didn’t know that.
0:53:16 I just thought I failed.
0:53:23 And 35 years later, I’m figuring all this stuff out, and I’m like, “Oh my, I didn’t fail.
0:53:26 I just took the wrong job.”
0:53:29 And probably had they known what my working…
0:53:30 It’s funny.
0:53:31 I don’t know if you know who Meg Whitman is.
0:53:32 Of course.
0:53:33 I worked at Hewlett Packard for five years.
0:53:34 Oh, okay.
0:53:37 Well, I worked with Meg in my first job at Bain and Company, right?
0:53:41 I really appreciated her because she pulled me aside after two years at Bain.
0:53:46 And she said, “Pat, you would be a good partner here, because that’s what I ended up doing.”
0:53:50 She goes, “But this analyst job that we hired you for, this isn’t for you.”
0:53:51 And I was like, “No, it’s not.
0:53:52 I hate it.”
0:53:56 But she said, “You’ll be a good partner one day, but this kind of work right here.”
0:54:01 And the problem sometimes in companies is we make somebody prove themselves in one kind
0:54:05 of work in order to get promoted into another kind of work when they were meant to just
0:54:06 do that one.
0:54:09 The best salesperson isn’t necessarily the best sales manager.
0:54:13 But Meg, even back then, said to me, “You’re going to do really well someday, but this
0:54:15 kind of job right here is not good for you.”
0:54:20 And honestly, as I’m thinking about my employees, I can already tell who’s in the right job
0:54:22 and who’s not.
0:54:23 Yes.
0:54:30 I need this so and so and so to take the assessment because I know in my gut that they’re not in
0:54:37 the right job because they’re great people, very smart, but not doing rock star work.
0:54:40 And when they get seen that way and you can say to them, “Hey, there’s nothing wrong
0:54:41 with you.
0:54:46 We just have you in the wrong role and you’re meant to work in the right role.
0:54:48 That’s so liberating.”
0:54:52 Something that helped me put this all together was really thinking about the working geniuses
0:54:56 as the recipe to actually complete a project.
0:54:58 And you have these three stages of work.
0:55:03 So I’d love for you to explain how all of these work together to actually complete a
0:55:07 single project because we need all of them to do so.
0:55:08 Yes.
0:55:13 So early stages in an organization, the W and the I are really at play.
0:55:18 And the D2 and the G a little bit, but that’s the ideation phase.
0:55:22 We talked to these guys at Nike a few years ago, and they talked about how they had people
0:55:25 that do product ideas, ideation.
0:55:26 So they come up with some idea.
0:55:30 We can put gel in a shoe or whatever they come up with their ideas.
0:55:32 And that’s called ideation and that’s early on.
0:55:34 But then somebody needs to take that idea.
0:55:37 The middle two are called activation.
0:55:42 And the discernment and the galvanizing is evaluating whether the idea is good and working
0:55:44 with the innovator to tweak it.
0:55:49 And then when it’s ready to go, galvanizing people and getting them on board.
0:55:53 And at Nike, they were talking about how they went from ideation, they skipped the middle
0:55:58 stage for a while, and then there were people in implementation, the E and the T. That’s
0:56:00 the later stage of work where you’re actually just getting it done.
0:56:05 The product’s been set, the plans are there, now we just have to execute.
0:56:11 And if you go straight from ideation to implementation, which is what they were doing, the people
0:56:14 in ideation are like, why don’t those people implement our ideas better?
0:56:17 And the people in implementation are, why don’t they send us better ideas?
0:56:22 Because nobody has tweaked them and rallied people around what needed to be done.
0:56:26 So the three stages go from ideation to activation to implementation.
0:56:30 Now, of course, you’re doing a little bit of each at every step.
0:56:35 It’s never completely linear, but when you move out of the ideation phase, it’s really
0:56:39 important that people realize that and they focus their efforts.
0:56:41 And there’s some people that have a harder time with that.
0:56:45 And so when you can talk to them about that and go, hey, listen, we have three weeks until
0:56:49 this launches, we really have to stop going back and questioning everything.
0:56:53 Or, hey, we’re at the early phase here and I know you want to implement things and you
0:56:55 want a timeline, but we’re not there yet.
0:56:59 So come to the meeting, but sit on your hands if you have to while we’re brainstorming this,
0:57:03 because we’re not ready to start putting the detailed plans in place.
0:57:07 Is this something that we should actually think through before our project?
0:57:11 Like who’s going to be responsible for each of these three phases?
0:57:14 How are we going to put this in a project plan?
0:57:17 Or is it just like a natural thing that happens?
0:57:21 I think the answer is somewhere in between and probably closer to yes, we should do what
0:57:24 you said originally, but it’s never going to be perfect that way.
0:57:28 But I do think we should go like, hey, we’re at the early stages of this.
0:57:32 We have to have a WID meeting where we’re going to get together, wonder, invent and discern.
0:57:34 That’s all we’re going to do.
0:57:37 So you’re probably best at leading that meeting.
0:57:42 For the next week, why don’t you realize that that’s what you’re going to help us do.
0:57:45 And if there’s other people that struggle with that, let’s be aware of that.
0:57:50 And it’s interesting because you have I, which is an ideation, but you have G, which is an
0:57:53 activation, which leads to implementation.
0:57:56 For you, this is an interesting thing, Hala.
0:57:58 I say this a lot.
0:58:03 I think that there are times when you’re innovating, you’re ideating, and you have to let people
0:58:07 know that you’re not galvanizing because you could probably go to people go, oh, this would
0:58:08 be a cool idea.
0:58:12 And the implementers are like, okay, you want us to start right now and you got to go,
0:58:13 no, no, no, no, no, I’m just ideating.
0:58:15 Yeah, this is so true.
0:58:21 So I often say to people, I’m not gene right now, I’m eyeing because otherwise they want
0:58:24 to go out and implement something and you’re like, oh, no, I’m just throwing it against
0:58:30 the wall for your discernment rather than galvanizing you for your enablement.
0:58:31 Does that make sense?
0:58:32 Totally makes sense.
0:58:35 And there’s other times when you’re like, okay, we should do this and people like, well,
0:58:36 I’m not really sure.
0:58:37 Oh, no, I’m not ideating right now.
0:58:38 I’m galvanizing you.
0:58:40 I need you to act.
0:58:43 We’ve already discerned this.
0:58:47 So it’s just the language and knowing what stage of the conversation you’re in or the
0:58:49 project you’re in or the work that you’re in.
0:58:54 And a lot of entrepreneurial companies are really comfortable with the ideation and then
0:58:56 they get frustrated when it comes to implementation.
0:59:01 That’s why even the most innovative young company in the world needs enablement and
0:59:02 tenacity.
0:59:10 All right, young and profitors, that was the first part of my conversation with Patrick
0:59:11 Lenchoni.
0:59:17 I’m so excited by this idea of working geniuses and it makes total sense when you think about
0:59:18 it.
0:59:22 We each possess a different bucket of skills and abilities and you’re going to be more
0:59:28 fulfilled and successful when you lean into, rather than away from, your true talents.
0:59:33 Sometimes we can get awfully good at things that we don’t actually like and we may be
0:59:37 able to get by doing those things, but we could be accomplishing so much more if we
0:59:41 spent that time doing things that actually bring us joy and energy.
0:59:46 And if you want to find out what activities bring you the most joy and energy and what
0:59:52 you’re working geniuses are, you can go to youngandprofiting.co/work and you can take
0:59:53 the assessment yourself.
0:59:59 It’s just $25 and when I took the assessment, I found out so much that I already knew deep
1:00:04 down inside, but it helped me describe it and verbalize it so that I could share that
1:00:07 information with my team.
1:00:13 And it totally described exactly what I like to do for work and it helps me understand
1:00:18 what areas I should lean into and what areas I should continue to outsource.
1:00:22 I’ve been doing it naturally, but it’s so good to get validation that I’ve been on
1:00:24 the right track.
1:00:28 Again if you want to learn how to use working geniuses for teams, check out part two next
1:00:31 week and thanks so much for listening to this episode.
1:00:35 If you listened and learned and profited from it, then why not share young and profiting
1:00:36 with a friend or a colleague?
1:00:41 Perhaps they would enjoy figuring out what type of working genius they possess as well.
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1:00:53 If you prefer to watch our videos, you can find us on YouTube, just look up young and
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1:01:00 If you want to reach out to me on social media, you can find me on Instagram @yappwithhalla
1:01:03 or LinkedIn by searching my name, it’s Halla Taha.
1:01:07 And of course, I’ve got to thank my amazing production team, thank you guys for all your
1:01:10 hard work, I’m so grateful for you all.
1:01:14 This is your host, Halla Taha, aka The Podcast Princess, signing off.
1:01:24 [MUSIC]
1:01:34 [BLANK_AUDIO]

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0:01:10 (upbeat music)
0:01:21 Hey, young in-profitters.
0:01:23 Do you have big money energy?
0:01:25 I know I certainly do.
0:01:28 And if you do too, you’re gonna love today’s episode.
0:01:31 I’m replaying episode 59 of the podcast
0:01:32 with Ryan Serhant.
0:01:35 Ryan is one of the most successful real estate brokers
0:01:36 in the world.
0:01:39 He’s the founder and CEO of Serhant,
0:01:40 a brokerage at the intersection
0:01:43 of media, entertainment and technology.
0:01:45 He’s also an entrepreneur, best-selling author
0:01:46 and star of TV shows,
0:01:49 Bravo’s Million Dollar Listing New York
0:01:51 and Owning Manhattan on Netflix.
0:01:53 In this episode you’re about to listen to,
0:01:54 we go deep on sales.
0:01:57 Something that Ryan is incredible at.
0:01:59 We learn the power of the follow-up
0:02:02 and Ryan shares the secret sauce to his sales success,
0:02:03 his three Fs.
0:02:05 Following up, following through
0:02:07 and following back with clients.
0:02:10 In fact, Ryan once closed an $8 million deal
0:02:13 just because he kept following up.
0:02:16 Ryan really opened my eyes in this conversation
0:02:18 and helped me reframe how I think about sales
0:02:22 with ideas like sales is the transfer of enthusiasm
0:02:25 and showing up is 75% of the battle.
0:02:26 He’s so good at what he does,
0:02:29 I can’t wait for you to hear this.
0:02:31 If you want more from Ryan after this,
0:02:33 check out my second conversation with him,
0:02:35 episode 281, where I spoke about
0:02:37 his three-part strategy to branding.
0:02:39 I’ll put the link in the show notes.
0:02:40 For now, I can’t wait for you guys
0:02:42 to learn from Ryan about sales,
0:02:44 so let’s jump right into it.
0:02:50 – Hey Ryan, welcome to Young and Profiting Podcast.
0:02:51 – Thank you for having me.
0:02:52 I’m so happy you’re here.
0:02:56 It’s not often that I get to interview a fellow New Yorker.
0:02:56 – Oh, really?
0:02:57 – Yeah.
0:03:01 So tell me, how did you decide to start living New York
0:03:03 and starting your family here in New York?
0:03:06 – Oh man, why New York City?
0:03:08 I graduated college in upstate New York
0:03:12 and I came here in 2006 with the little money saved up
0:03:13 ’cause I wanted to do theater
0:03:16 and I had never been to the West Coast really,
0:03:17 so I didn’t want to go to LA
0:03:21 and New York seemed like the best place to do that.
0:03:23 I got an apartment with two of my roommates
0:03:26 and we made a one bedroom into a three bedroom
0:03:30 on 66th and first and now I’m just still here.
0:03:32 – Oh, so it’s just my chance that you’re here.
0:03:34 – Yeah, I mean, listen, New York is,
0:03:35 and I say this all the time,
0:03:38 like I owe my life to New York City.
0:03:40 I mean, I owe my life to my mom,
0:03:42 but second to my mom, I owe my life to New York City
0:03:44 because without New York,
0:03:46 I wouldn’t have had all of the different opportunities
0:03:49 that I had ’cause I went from being like in the same city
0:03:51 on the same exact block.
0:03:55 I was passing out flyers, hand modeling,
0:03:58 modeling pants, doing a free piece of theater
0:04:01 and renting apartments at the same exact time
0:04:03 and meeting really, really, really interesting,
0:04:06 intellectually curious people across the street.
0:04:07 And you can do it all in New York City
0:04:09 because it’s a melting pot.
0:04:11 Everybody is here and there’s unlimited,
0:04:14 unlimited opportunity in this city.
0:04:16 So I thank New York every day.
0:04:18 – Yeah, New York is amazing, land of opportunity.
0:04:20 I totally agree.
0:04:22 You started off your career in New York City,
0:04:25 like you mentioned, you were a real estate agent,
0:04:29 only because your acting didn’t really work out right away.
0:04:33 I know that you got killed off of a soap series,
0:04:35 and you started off as an actor,
0:04:38 and then you went into real estate in your 20s,
0:04:41 and essentially you got this casting call
0:04:43 for a million-dollar listing, or you found out about it,
0:04:45 and you ended up auditioning for them,
0:04:48 and you got the part amongst thousands of other people
0:04:49 who tried out, right?
0:04:52 So tell me about that point in your life.
0:04:54 What was it like leading up to that point
0:04:56 where you got that information about that audition,
0:04:59 and how did you just take the plunge to go do it?
0:05:01 Even though you were just starting out,
0:05:03 you really weren’t an established real estate agent
0:05:05 at that point from my understanding.
0:05:07 – Oh yeah, no way.
0:05:08 It’s funny, right after you graduate,
0:05:12 you kind of don’t feel like you’re an adult yet.
0:05:15 It’s like this extended summer job that just keeps going.
0:05:17 And because I didn’t go to grad school
0:05:19 or go get a real job,
0:05:21 you know, I was just living off of savings,
0:05:24 which I’d done for the past four years in college anyway,
0:05:26 and I was making ends meet by doing odd jobs
0:05:31 and doing the soap opera for 500 bucks an episode type thing,
0:05:35 and it never really felt like, oh wow, I’m grown up,
0:05:36 I’m an adult, and now I’m in New York City,
0:05:39 and I have to pay bills and taxes and have my life.
0:05:42 Like it all just sort of slowly happens.
0:05:43 But I put acting to the side
0:05:44 because I just wasn’t happy anymore.
0:05:47 The business of being an actor in New York City
0:05:50 is brutal on your mental well-being, you know?
0:05:52 It’s just hard, like in you,
0:05:56 and I would see actors who were twice my age, you know,
0:05:59 in their 40s and 50s and 60s
0:06:01 who were still trying for their big break,
0:06:04 and they were still waiting tables or bartending
0:06:08 the same way they did when they were 19 or 20,
0:06:10 and it just, life goes on, you know?
0:06:13 And you get comfortable with that monthly budget you got,
0:06:14 and you get comfortable with that job,
0:06:18 and then, before you know it, 20 or 30 years flashes by,
0:06:21 and I was so terrified that that was gonna happen,
0:06:23 that I said, you know what, I gotta make something happen,
0:06:25 so I’m either gonna go to law school,
0:06:27 which I tried and totally bombed the LSAT,
0:06:30 or a friend told me, get your real estate license.
0:06:31 It’s basically acting.
0:06:33 You just have to turn it on with everybody,
0:06:36 and you memorize information about buildings and apartments,
0:06:38 and then just walk into apartments,
0:06:41 talk about how awesome they are, and that’s basically it.
0:06:43 I was like, that sounds stupid.
0:06:45 And so I got my real estate license,
0:06:46 and I was just doing rentals,
0:06:48 and so I put acting to the side,
0:06:50 even though I’d trained to do it my whole life,
0:06:53 so it was kind of like, oh man, failure.
0:06:56 Now I’m a rental real estate agent in Koreatown,
0:06:59 in New York City, like, is this why I went to college?
0:07:01 And then there was a casting call from a new listing
0:07:02 that said they were looking for the best real estate agents
0:07:05 under the age of 35, come to an open call,
0:07:08 basically at the Hudson Hotel in Times Square,
0:07:10 and I went with 3,000 people,
0:07:12 and until I went to that audition,
0:07:15 I basically was kind of treating real estate
0:07:19 almost like my make ends meet business.
0:07:22 I wanna be able to figure out how to pay rent,
0:07:24 and not be stressed about money all the time,
0:07:27 and make my own hours, and I was still,
0:07:29 I was kind of like in a limbo period, I guess I could say,
0:07:31 up until I got cast on the show.
0:07:35 Yeah, set the stage in terms of how successful you are today.
0:07:37 Let’s talk in terms of numbers.
0:07:42 I don’t know, I work 16 hours a day, seven days a week.
0:07:44 I don’t know if that’s really successful,
0:07:45 or if that’s terrible,
0:07:48 because there’s a big price to pay, right, with success.
0:07:54 I would say that I sell about 2.7 to 2.8 million dollars
0:07:56 worth of homes every day.
0:07:59 We do just about a billion dollars a year,
0:08:03 and that’s between residential homes and commercial sales.
0:08:05 I lead a team of about 64 people.
0:08:09 We sell majority of our real estate in New York City,
0:08:11 but we do a lot in the Hamptons, Miami, Chicago,
0:08:14 Boston, Dallas, Houston, and Los Angeles.
0:08:16 We do some stuff internationally,
0:08:17 but it’s super complicated,
0:08:19 so I try to keep things based here.
0:08:21 That’s amazing, congratulations.
0:08:24 So let’s take it back to your time,
0:08:26 you just started on a million dollar listing.
0:08:29 You were an inexperienced real estate agent.
0:08:33 How did you use acting to boost yourself confidence,
0:08:35 to make sure that you had the right skills
0:08:36 as a real estate agent?
0:08:38 How did you use your previous experiences
0:08:41 to then become a professional real estate agent
0:08:43 or sales person, as you like to say?
0:08:46 – Big money energy, like that’s kind of what I call it.
0:08:49 Like I didn’t have the experience,
0:08:51 but I knew I had to be confident in a room,
0:08:54 even if I didn’t feel confident, you know,
0:08:56 and that all comes down to the energy that you have.
0:08:58 So like when I went into that audition,
0:09:00 I told them what they needed to hear,
0:09:03 and I wasn’t uncomfortable, I wasn’t nervous.
0:09:05 I wasn’t like, oh man they’re seeing right through me.
0:09:08 You know, I walked in there as if I was somebody
0:09:10 who was in an audition, right?
0:09:12 When you go and go to offer an audition,
0:09:14 you know, you’re 22, but you’re gonna go audition
0:09:16 to pay a millionaire real estate broker
0:09:19 or an investment banker.
0:09:21 You put on a nice tie and suit and you go in there
0:09:23 and you read the lines and you’re a confident
0:09:25 investment banker, so I did the same thing.
0:09:27 Like I wore my best suit and walked in there
0:09:29 and said I’m the greatest real estate agent
0:09:32 that’s ever lived, I’m 25 years old.
0:09:34 I don’t know why you’re still looking.
0:09:37 They’re like, wow, this guy’s maybe too confident.
0:09:38 And it just sort of went from there.
0:09:41 And then I, you know, Bravo and NBCUniversal,
0:09:46 basically it was like a metaphorical shotgun to the head
0:09:48 where they said, you’ve got to sell real estate,
0:09:51 otherwise we are gonna shame you to the entire world.
0:09:52 (laughing)
0:09:53 Since you had to do well.
0:09:55 If you fail, you know, at listings and everything,
0:09:58 then we’re gonna put you on TV as a failure.
0:10:01 And so that was, you know, like fear is a real thing.
0:10:03 So the last thing I wanted to do
0:10:05 was be a loser real estate agent
0:10:06 who couldn’t sell anything.
0:10:09 So I worked my ass off to sell all that stuff.
0:10:12 That first season I lost like 10 pounds from stress.
0:10:13 Running around the city, cold calling.
0:10:16 And all that changed was the fear of shame.
0:10:18 But I sold a lot.
0:10:20 And from then I’ve used that as like my wall,
0:10:24 my fear of public failure is really what drives me, I guess.
0:10:27 So something that’s stuck to me when you were talking
0:10:29 is that essentially you had an affirmation
0:10:32 like I’m the best real estate sales person, right?
0:10:34 So how important is the law of attraction to you
0:10:36 in terms of your success
0:10:38 and ensuring that you hit your goals?
0:10:40 I’m a big believer in positive energy.
0:10:42 You know, that’s why I said big money energy.
0:10:45 I think that there are two types of people in the world.
0:10:47 There are the people who get into a car
0:10:50 and look out the window and see rain and clouds.
0:10:51 And there are people that get into the car
0:10:54 and look out a window and see sun shining.
0:10:56 And even if it’s raining, you get excited about the rain
0:10:58 because you know, it makes things grow.
0:10:59 And I’ve always been one of those people like
0:11:03 life is just too short to be negative and to be upset.
0:11:04 Like you can have bad days.
0:11:05 I definitely have bad days.
0:11:06 I get stressed out.
0:11:08 I get angry all the time.
0:11:09 But at the end of the day,
0:11:11 those are fleeting emotional moments that I have
0:11:13 that are in response to certain things
0:11:14 that are happening to me.
0:11:17 But I am super pumped that I’m alive today, right?
0:11:19 I don’t have coronavirus.
0:11:21 Everything’s gonna be okay.
0:11:23 You know, like life is gonna go on.
0:11:24 And we, I live in New York city.
0:11:27 I sell $20 million homes for a living.
0:11:29 Like what, like, I don’t, I’m not a roofer.
0:11:31 You know, I’m not working on the ranch.
0:11:36 I’m not in a country where my rights get taken away from me.
0:11:38 Like life is great, life’s okay.
0:11:40 So I put out that positive energy as much as possible.
0:11:44 And selling is the transfer of enthusiasm, right?
0:11:46 Like I don’t sell homes ever.
0:11:47 I don’t think I’ve ever actually sold a home.
0:11:51 I think the homes that I sell are the skeleton
0:11:54 around the excitement that I transfer to people.
0:11:57 So my enthusiasm for a home is really what I’m selling
0:11:59 because you’re gonna buy a house anyway.
0:12:01 Like you’re looking for a house, right?
0:12:03 And so I’m gonna show you homes
0:12:06 if you’re on the buyer side with me that I think are great.
0:12:09 And this one that you like, I like it too.
0:12:09 This is awesome.
0:12:10 Let’s imagine you living here
0:12:13 and your kids’ baby footsteps are gonna be here
0:12:15 and your dinner parties and blah, blah, blah, blah.
0:12:16 And let’s talk about the deal
0:12:17 and you’re gonna get a great deal.
0:12:20 That’s excitement and you get excited about that.
0:12:21 And that’s when people open up their wallet.
0:12:25 It is very hard for me to negotiate with someone’s wallet
0:12:27 but I can negotiate with people’s feelings all day long.
0:12:30 – Oh, I love that, selling your enthusiasm.
0:12:32 – Yeah, sales is the transfer of enthusiasm.
0:12:33 That is all it is.
0:12:34 – Very cool.
0:12:35 So let’s talk about your work ethic.
0:12:38 Previously you said you work 16-hour days.
0:12:40 I think you wake up at like 4.50 a.m.,
0:12:43 you go to sleep at 11 p.m., something like that.
0:12:45 Or you keep working until 11 p.m.
0:12:47 if I remember correctly.
0:12:48 Where did you get your work ethic from?
0:12:52 Because I read that you didn’t really grow up poor
0:12:52 or anything like that.
0:12:54 You were upper middle class
0:12:56 and oftentimes I was the same thing.
0:12:59 Like people think that you don’t have a strong work ethic
0:13:01 if you didn’t grow up poor.
0:13:03 So tell me, where did you get your work ethic from?
0:13:04 – My dad, for sure.
0:13:07 He made me do, me and my little brother,
0:13:09 we had to do manual labor jobs
0:13:11 since the day I can remember.
0:13:13 If we wanted anything, we had to pay for it ourselves.
0:13:14 There was no allowance.
0:13:17 You know, my first video camera I had to save for
0:13:19 on my own, like, and literally, you know,
0:13:21 what he would say is you can make money doing anything.
0:13:23 You just figure it out.
0:13:25 And so I would do like the smallest things,
0:13:27 like he paid me to pick up sticks, right?
0:13:30 We in outside Boston, there’s a lot of trees.
0:13:31 And, you know, instead of getting,
0:13:34 hiring a yard guy to come and rake up the yard
0:13:36 and rake up all the sticks and branches,
0:13:38 I would do that and pick it all up.
0:13:39 And he paid me per stick.
0:13:42 And I just knew, I was like, wow, there’s endless sticks.
0:13:43 Like I could pick up all these sticks
0:13:44 and my dad will pay me.
0:13:45 And I can’t remember what it was.
0:13:49 It was like, I don’t know, 10 cents a stick or something,
0:13:50 but it added up, right?
0:13:51 You pick up enough sticks.
0:13:54 You can make some real money.
0:13:56 And that’s kind of the same idea that I have now.
0:14:00 Like I look at people like sticks.
0:14:01 Like when I go out into New York City
0:14:03 and I see millions of people on the street,
0:14:06 like, man, if I just picked up 10 of those, you know,
0:14:09 my dad will pay me, except now it’s not my dad.
0:14:13 And he was always, I like, he made me write an essay
0:14:16 on the power of not being lazy when I was 10 years old.
0:14:18 Like he really, really drilled into me
0:14:20 the power of hard work because he,
0:14:22 my dad had his first baby when he was 18 years old.
0:14:24 His mom died when he was 13.
0:14:27 His dad died, sorry, his brother died when he was 21.
0:14:29 He raised his family basically on his own,
0:14:33 put himself through college, figured out finance,
0:14:35 got himself a job, put himself through everything.
0:14:38 And if he could do that, like anything is possible.
0:14:39 Yeah, you’ve got it easy then.
0:14:41 I totally have it easy.
0:14:42 That’s awesome.
0:14:44 Hard work is literally a talent, I think.
0:14:45 So kudos to you.
0:14:47 It’s hard to teach, you know.
0:14:49 So there’s a very popular saying that reminds me of you
0:14:52 that showing up is half the battle.
0:14:54 Can you talk to us about the lessons you’ve learned
0:14:55 in terms of showing up
0:14:58 and how that’s helped you become so successful?
0:15:01 Yeah, you can’t do anything if you’re not there.
0:15:03 I tell that to my team members all the time,
0:15:04 my agents who come to me and they’re like,
0:15:05 well, I need more business.
0:15:07 I’m like, I haven’t seen you in two days.
0:15:08 What have you been doing?
0:15:09 Like, oh, I’ve been busy.
0:15:10 What have you been busy with?
0:15:12 And I like will really drill into it.
0:15:13 And people get embarrassed and nervous
0:15:15 because they haven’t actually been busy.
0:15:18 Showing up is 75% of the battle.
0:15:21 The other 20% is luck.
0:15:25 And the other 5% is you’ve got to be there.
0:15:26 You got to be in the room.
0:15:28 You got to be part of the conversation.
0:15:29 You got to put yourself out there.
0:15:31 People have to see your face, hear your voice,
0:15:32 shake your hand.
0:15:35 Like that’s what the world is all about.
0:15:38 The deals that I do today are based on relationships
0:15:41 that I started by being in the room 10 years ago.
0:15:42 And the room that I’m in today
0:15:46 will hopefully open up doors for me 10 years from now
0:15:49 when I’m 45, you know, I’ll look back to 2020
0:15:52 and say, thank God, I actually went to work that day.
0:15:53 Yeah.
0:15:54 You know, like I went to a meeting yesterday
0:15:57 as an example, and I didn’t really want to go to it.
0:15:59 So I was like, why am I going to this meeting?
0:16:01 It’s like for some tech thing platform
0:16:02 and they asked me to come.
0:16:05 And so a couple of people on my media team are like,
0:16:05 hey, let’s go.
0:16:07 I got so much other stuff to do.
0:16:09 I just want to like clean email.
0:16:10 And I got to make all these calls.
0:16:12 But I went and at the end of the meeting,
0:16:16 I was like, holy shit, but I take back not wanting to go
0:16:17 because I met three other people there.
0:16:19 I got connected to two other people
0:16:21 that are looking to buy apartments.
0:16:22 The CEO is actually somebody
0:16:25 that I definitely, definitely should know.
0:16:26 I just didn’t pay attention to it, you know?
0:16:29 And I feel like people pass those opportunities
0:16:30 by all the time because they’re like,
0:16:33 either why should I go and waste my time?
0:16:34 Or I don’t know, it’s not for me
0:16:35 or oh, it’s not going to work out.
0:16:39 So I put myself in as many different positions
0:16:40 to have opportunities as possible
0:16:42 because you never, ever, ever know.
0:16:43 You never know.
0:16:45 – That reminds me of something that you talk about often
0:16:47 and it’s some of your sales advice
0:16:50 to have as many balls in the air as possible.
0:16:51 But you actually have a lot of rules
0:16:53 when it comes to these balls and the ball throwing.
0:16:57 So could you just share this analogy with our listeners?
0:16:59 – You did the book, “Sell It Like Sir Hand”
0:17:01 was initially called “Balls Up.”
0:17:03 I sold it to the publisher as “Balls Up.”
0:17:05 And then once they bought it and we were writing it,
0:17:08 they came to me and they’re like, listen, we need to talk.
0:17:09 I don’t think these are the times
0:17:11 when we’re going to put a book on the shelves
0:17:13 that says “Balls Up.”
0:17:15 But the idea is it’s kind of like my game theory
0:17:16 for sales, right?
0:17:18 Instead of spending all of your time
0:17:19 on trying to do one deal,
0:17:21 sales is all about having a pipeline.
0:17:22 It’s a volume business.
0:17:23 I’m selling things right now
0:17:25 and I’m sitting here at this table with you
0:17:27 because I figured out how to leverage myself
0:17:28 and how to continue to sell things.
0:17:30 And I sell lots of different things now.
0:17:31 But you want to have as many balls
0:17:32 in the air as you possibly can
0:17:36 and then figure out a system, an actual system, right?
0:17:38 A system for follow-up, a system for discipline,
0:17:40 a system for your daily routine
0:17:44 that enables you to catch as many of those balls as possible.
0:17:47 That way, when balls fall, which is like a deal dying
0:17:49 or you don’t get that job
0:17:51 or that interview doesn’t happen,
0:17:54 it’s okay because you have 16 others in the works.
0:17:55 And if you do that,
0:17:58 then you’re always driven by positive momentum.
0:18:00 And then you’re living in the river, right?
0:18:02 And it’s like, like I grew up outside Boston.
0:18:04 There are running rivers that are great.
0:18:06 And then there are these stagnant ponds
0:18:07 that are gross and smelly
0:18:09 and have like dead things in them.
0:18:11 You know, that’s what you are
0:18:14 if you don’t have things in the fire
0:18:15 and if you’re not in constant motion.
0:18:18 And so that’s kind of how it works.
0:18:20 And there’s a whole system for it.
0:18:21 – Let’s hold that thought
0:18:23 and take a quick break with our sponsors.
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0:19:26 Yeah, fam, if you’re anything like me,
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0:19:30 to spend all your time managing finances,
0:19:33 budgeting, invoicing and tax prep,
0:19:36 not exactly the fun part of entrepreneurship.
0:19:40 My CEO, Jason, on the other hand, is great at finances,
0:19:41 but even he doesn’t want to switch
0:19:43 between five different apps for banking,
0:19:46 expense tracking and contractor payments.
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0:20:57 Hey, yeah, bam.
0:20:59 Launching my LinkedIn secrets masterclass
0:21:02 was one of the best things I’ve ever done for my business.
0:21:04 And I didn’t have to figure out all the nuts and bolts
0:21:07 of creating a website for my course.
0:21:08 I needed a lot of different features.
0:21:12 I needed chat capabilities in case anybody had questions.
0:21:14 I needed promo code discounts.
0:21:17 I needed a laundry list of features
0:21:20 to enable what I was envisioning with my course.
0:21:21 But here’s the thing.
0:21:24 All I had to do was literally lift a finger
0:21:25 to get it all done.
0:21:28 And that’s because I used Shopify.
0:21:30 (bell dings)
0:21:34 Shopify is the easiest way to sell anything,
0:21:36 to sell online or in person.
0:21:39 It’s the home of the number one checkout on the planet.
0:21:41 And Shopify is not so secret secret as Shoppay,
0:21:44 which boosts conversions up to 50%.
0:21:46 That means way fewer cards get abandoned
0:21:48 and way more sales get done.
0:21:50 (bell dings)
0:21:52 So when students tell me that they can’t afford my course,
0:21:55 I let them know about payment plans with Shoppay.
0:21:57 It is a game changer.
0:21:58 If you’re into growing your business,
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0:22:23 at Shopify.com/profiting and that’s all lowercase.
0:22:27 Go to Shopify.com/profiting to upgrade your selling today.
0:22:30 That’s Shopify.com/profiting.
0:22:32 (bell dings)
0:22:37 How do you ensure that you always have
0:22:38 like a stream of opportunities?
0:22:39 What do you do?
0:22:42 I meet five new people every single day.
0:22:44 At least minimum, that is my job.
0:22:45 I am not a real estate broker.
0:22:47 I don’t sell homes.
0:22:48 My main job when I think about it,
0:22:52 like what’s my job today is to meet five new people,
0:22:55 get their contact information, put it into my phone.
0:22:56 That’s it.
0:22:58 So those five people will then get my newsletters.
0:23:01 I will follow them on social or they’ll follow me.
0:23:02 We will follow up with each other.
0:23:04 We’ll see how we can make different opportunities
0:23:07 together for each other ’cause the world is short, small
0:23:09 and we’ll see what happens and you never know.
0:23:12 And five times 365 times the last 12 years
0:23:15 is a lot of people and I’m not going anywhere.
0:23:19 And so those people and oftentimes it’s more people,
0:23:21 but if I haven’t hit five because I’ve been stuck
0:23:22 in the office all day or something,
0:23:24 I will literally like go to the deli
0:23:28 and just meet two new people or like go to Starbucks.
0:23:30 And I will literally tell people,
0:23:32 hey, I’m a real estate broker.
0:23:33 I have a personal quota that I got to meet
0:23:34 five new people every day.
0:23:35 I’ve only met four.
0:23:37 Can you be my number five?
0:23:40 And when you say it, when you’re dead honest with people,
0:23:43 people are like, sure, I guess, weird.
0:23:43 Why do you do that?
0:23:45 And then it opens up a conversation
0:23:46 and now you’re talking to somebody
0:23:47 about your work ethic and this and they’re like,
0:23:50 oh, actually my son is doing up, up, up, up, up, up, up.
0:23:52 Do people recognize you now when you go up to them?
0:23:54 Now it’s slightly easier, but no.
0:23:56 Not all the time.
0:23:57 Sometimes halfway through a conversation,
0:23:59 people will be like, you look familiar.
0:24:00 I’m like, yeah, maybe.
0:24:02 They’ve seen Million Dollar Listing
0:24:05 maybe on like a jet blue flight five years ago.
0:24:07 They’re like, you kind of look like that guy
0:24:09 kind of from that real estate show,
0:24:11 but you also kind of look a little bit like Tom Brady,
0:24:14 but not really, I don’t know, did we date?
0:24:17 I’m like, no, we definitely did not date, dude.
0:24:18 That’s funny.
0:24:20 Well, at least you still are like approachable enough
0:24:24 and you can still approach people randomly on the street.
0:24:25 So from what I remember,
0:24:28 you actually were a very shy child, right?
0:24:32 You grew up with a little awkwardness, social anxiety,
0:24:33 a little overweight.
0:24:36 I have some younger listeners who listen to the podcast.
0:24:39 What’s your advice in terms of getting out of your shell
0:24:41 and becoming the confident person that you are today?
0:24:42 Like you’re super confident now.
0:24:44 How did you change that?
0:24:46 Yeah, big money energy.
0:24:48 I mean, I’m a big believer, like I said,
0:24:52 in the power of positive energy and like a vision board.
0:24:54 So who do you want to be?
0:24:55 What is that image of?
0:24:56 Even maybe it’s somebody you know,
0:24:58 maybe it’s that cool kid in school
0:25:01 or maybe it’s an actor or someone on YouTube,
0:25:03 like print out that person’s face
0:25:06 and put it by your bed or in your journal
0:25:09 or in your locker or in your car
0:25:12 and just imagine like you can be that person
0:25:14 or you can be even better than that person
0:25:17 and position yourself out there just that way
0:25:19 and know that no one cares.
0:25:21 No one cares about the way you feel.
0:25:22 And if you are uncomfortable,
0:25:25 and so for me, like I was overweight,
0:25:27 I had really, really bad skin.
0:25:31 I had premature gray hair from when I was 16 years old
0:25:34 and I was super pale to combat the gray hair
0:25:35 because I was really embarrassed about it.
0:25:39 I would dye it and then dark brown hair dye
0:25:41 from the pharmacy is actually black.
0:25:45 So I’d be like super white with really jet black hair,
0:25:47 you know, riddled with acne, you know,
0:25:49 with my little belly running around.
0:25:51 And what I realized later on
0:25:53 is all the things that I was nervous about,
0:25:55 no one else was paying attention to
0:25:56 because all they were caring about
0:25:59 was I paying attention to their crooked teeth.
0:26:01 I’m nervous that they were paying attention to my skin
0:26:03 but they’re concerned that I’m paying attention
0:26:06 to their really bad haircut that they got yesterday.
0:26:07 And to me, I just mentioned to you,
0:26:09 your hair looks great, I don’t understand.
0:26:12 And so, you know, it’s remembering that no one cares
0:26:13 and what’s the worst that can happen?
0:26:16 Something my dad told me that really opened me up
0:26:17 when I was growing up
0:26:19 so I was too nervous to ask out.
0:26:21 Girls or anything is like,
0:26:22 are you afraid that any of these girls
0:26:24 are gonna punch you in the nose?
0:26:27 And I was like, I mean, I don’t think so.
0:26:29 He’s like, okay, that’s probably the worst thing
0:26:31 that can happen is someone punches you in the face
0:26:34 ’cause that’ll physically hurt or try to like harm you.
0:26:37 Are you afraid any of these girls carry knives?
0:26:39 Like, no, it’s like North Shore Boston,
0:26:40 none of these girls carry knives.
0:26:43 He’s like, okay, so what’s your problem?
0:26:45 Just ask, what are they gonna do?
0:26:47 You say no, at least you know, right?
0:26:49 And then move on, there’s lots of other people.
0:26:52 And that’s what the sales business is for me today.
0:26:54 Like I ask everybody, can I sell you a home?
0:26:56 No, okay, great, I’ll keep you posted.
0:26:57 Next, like it’s–
0:26:58 That’s solid advice.
0:27:00 Yeah, what is like there’s,
0:27:02 the worst thing someone can do
0:27:06 is punch you in the face or send you to jail, right?
0:27:09 Or kill you, like those are the three terrible things
0:27:10 that could happen to you.
0:27:13 Everything else doesn’t matter, no one cares.
0:27:15 Like you carry yourself with the confidence
0:27:18 of the person you know you can be, it’s inside you.
0:27:21 You have it already, just pull it out there
0:27:23 and people are gonna be excited about it.
0:27:24 Put a smile on your face,
0:27:26 sell enthusiasm for who you are
0:27:28 and people will be attracted to it.
0:27:31 Okay, so let’s move on to your sales methodologies.
0:27:33 You wrote a whole book on sales you mentioned before,
0:27:35 sell it like Sir Hunt.
0:27:37 And you currently run one of the top sales teams
0:27:41 in New York and in the nation, Nest Seekers.
0:27:44 Tell us how do you effectively run that sales teams?
0:27:45 Like what are your general principles
0:27:47 to be so successful with them?
0:27:51 No man, just cry all day long.
0:27:52 Managing people is really hard.
0:27:56 What I would say is I don’t have an exact system.
0:27:59 My best system is I talk to every single person
0:28:01 who works for me every day.
0:28:03 Like that’s the simplest piece of advice that I could give.
0:28:05 And it’s not on the phone, some of them it’s on the phone,
0:28:08 some of it’s by text, some of it’s just by social.
0:28:10 You know, like an agent of mine posts a listening,
0:28:12 a double type comment.
0:28:15 They need to hear from me as a leader every day.
0:28:18 Where leaders make mistakes is they don’t touch base.
0:28:21 Like you have to think about everyone who works with you
0:28:24 in some way shape or form, like or any regular relationship.
0:28:28 Imagine if I went home and saw my wife every day,
0:28:30 but didn’t talk to her because I was just too busy.
0:28:31 Didn’t say anything.
0:28:34 But deep down I love her, but she would know
0:28:35 something’s up, something’s weird.
0:28:36 How come he’s not talking to me?
0:28:38 Same thing goes for all your employees.
0:28:39 You know, it’s a little bit different,
0:28:41 but it is actually kind of the same.
0:28:44 And it’s easy, you know, even just sending an email
0:28:47 like that says you in the subject line
0:28:49 and in the body of the email says are awesome.
0:28:51 Hope you’re having a great day.
0:28:52 People appreciate that.
0:28:55 It’s like, and then you’re good for like the week
0:28:57 with that person and then you can touch base the next day,
0:28:59 little things, you know, little comments.
0:29:01 Like it goes a long, long way.
0:29:02 And then on top of that, like I have great people
0:29:04 who work for me that manage,
0:29:06 that help me manage problems and issues, you know,
0:29:09 at the end of the day, like your issues as a leader
0:29:12 and as a manager are never dealing with good things.
0:29:15 No one ever comes to me with good problems, right?
0:29:16 Like if someone comes to me,
0:29:18 it’s because they couldn’t figure it out on their own
0:29:19 and it’s typically something bad.
0:29:22 So most of my day is managing 60 plus agents
0:29:25 and all of their bad issues, right?
0:29:27 And figuring out how to deal with it and keeping them calm
0:29:29 and staying calm yourself and trying to manage
0:29:32 and then trying to quarterback as much as I possibly can.
0:29:33 That’s great advice.
0:29:35 I think being a manager, like you said,
0:29:38 is all about like showing your appreciation
0:29:39 and enthusiasm towards them
0:29:42 and ensuring that they’re feeling great to do their job
0:29:44 and feeling appreciated.
0:29:45 And knowing too, and not to cut you off, sorry,
0:29:49 but knowing too that it is like you’re all in it together.
0:29:50 Like listen, if you’re the boss, right?
0:29:52 Or you’re a manager,
0:29:54 even if you have just one person underneath you,
0:29:56 they know that you’re the boss.
0:29:57 Like you don’t have to remind them.
0:29:58 Like they get it, right?
0:29:59 They know they work for you.
0:30:01 They understand what the pecking order is.
0:30:03 It’s up to you to remind them
0:30:05 that they work with you, not for you.
0:30:08 No one who’s ever worked for me has done a great job
0:30:12 because who wants to work for anybody, right?
0:30:13 Especially in sales.
0:30:14 Yeah, they want to be part of the team.
0:30:16 They want to be part of the process.
0:30:20 Everything that everyone underneath you does for you,
0:30:21 you make them feel like they’re doing it with you
0:30:24 and it’s together, they’ll work 10 times harder.
0:30:25 Completely.
0:30:29 I know you have a lot of stories.
0:30:32 You have a story that really showcases the value
0:30:36 of saying yes with Mr. X.
0:30:36 Oh God.
0:30:41 Essentially you followed this mystery man to Paris
0:30:43 to land one of your first and biggest deals.
0:30:45 Would you share that story with our listeners?
0:30:47 Oh man, how much time do we have?
0:30:50 I’ll try to make it as succinct as possible.
0:30:52 Like one of my first listings I ever got
0:30:54 was really, really overpriced.
0:30:56 It was a listing on the Upper West Side,
0:30:58 45 West 67th Street.
0:31:01 No other agent would take it because it was so overpriced.
0:31:02 So that’s probably why I got it.
0:31:04 It was worth like $6 million
0:31:07 and I listed it for eight and a half, right?
0:31:08 So nice and high.
0:31:10 But that’s how a lot of agents get business in New York City.
0:31:12 You’re the one who talks to a seller
0:31:14 and you’re like, yeah, all those other agents are stupid.
0:31:16 Eight and a half for sure, let’s do it.
0:31:18 And if you have no listings, you know,
0:31:19 like I did at the time, that’s what I did.
0:31:21 And then you put the listing online,
0:31:22 you put it on the internet,
0:31:23 you put it out there to the world
0:31:24 and our company’s always been really good
0:31:26 at marketing internationally
0:31:28 so that people could see listings all over the world.
0:31:30 And I got an email from somebody that said
0:31:32 they wanted to buy that apartment
0:31:34 and where could they send the money?
0:31:38 I was like, oh, this seems weird and scammy,
0:31:40 but I had no other business at the time.
0:31:41 I didn’t know what to do.
0:31:44 So I wrote back, well, that’s not really how we do it here
0:31:46 but happy to talk to you if you want to make an offer.
0:31:48 And then he called me and I talked to him on the phone.
0:31:50 So he had a real voice who sounded real.
0:31:51 I mean, he said he wanted to make an offer
0:31:52 and he can’t remember,
0:31:55 but he made an offer of like $8 million.
0:31:57 And I had no idea who he was or where he was from.
0:31:59 He definitely was not from the United States.
0:32:01 He said he was gonna send me a proof of funds
0:32:05 which showed up the next day as a DHL piece of paper
0:32:08 with a photo of his accountant on it.
0:32:10 That just said Mr, I call him Mr. X
0:32:11 ’cause I can’t give out his name,
0:32:13 but Mr. X does not commit to things
0:32:16 that Mr. X will not commit to.
0:32:19 And I was like, all right, good enough for me, sure.
0:32:20 I’ve been $8 million offer.
0:32:22 And I presented it to the seller.
0:32:24 And as a real estate agent,
0:32:26 you have a fiduciary responsibility to vet all your clients
0:32:28 and make sure you’re presenting real offers
0:32:30 and kind of went out on a little bit of a limb
0:32:32 and the seller was like, well, is this a real buyer?
0:32:33 I’m like, yep, yep, how do you know?
0:32:34 They sent me a proof of funds.
0:32:37 All checks out, all’s good, $8 million, we should counter.
0:32:40 So we countered, we got the deal done at 8.3
0:32:42 and I connected him to an attorney
0:32:43 at the whole while being like,
0:32:44 this is the weirdest thing ever.
0:32:46 Some random dude on the internet
0:32:49 from this other country just contacted me
0:32:50 because he wanted access to my bank account
0:32:53 to send me $8 million.
0:32:54 And now maybe he’s gonna buy an apartment.
0:32:56 This is what New York is all about.
0:32:59 And he signed a contract and then disappeared.
0:33:02 And I had no idea what happened until, you know,
0:33:04 everyone got really, really upset and really angry
0:33:05 and what happened to this guy?
0:33:06 Where’s the money?
0:33:07 There’s no deposit.
0:33:10 And people kept telling me, listen, this is what people do.
0:33:11 Right?
0:33:12 They take contracts out for properties in New York City.
0:33:14 They sign contracts and then they go
0:33:16 and they scam people out of money.
0:33:17 So they go to people in different countries
0:33:18 all around the world and they say, listen,
0:33:21 I got a $10 million apartment in New York City.
0:33:23 I have a contract for $8.3 million.
0:33:25 Give me $10,000, come in on it with me.
0:33:27 We’re gonna make tons of money.
0:33:28 And they do that to like a hundred people.
0:33:29 Oh, wow.
0:33:30 Right?
0:33:32 And they make a lot of money that way.
0:33:34 And fast forward like, I don’t know,
0:33:37 four or five months or so, I’m on the West Side Highway
0:33:39 and his attorney that I introduced him to calls me
0:33:40 and says, you’re not gonna believe this,
0:33:44 but I just got a wire for $830,000.
0:33:48 You are officially in contract on 45 West 67th Street.
0:33:51 It’s like, holy moly.
0:33:54 We’re in contract on the biggest deal of my entire life.
0:33:55 This is insane.
0:33:56 The seller, they couldn’t believe it.
0:33:59 They thought this guy totally just disappeared.
0:34:00 And then he disappeared again.
0:34:01 So we had no idea what was going on.
0:34:04 Signed a contract and then sent money and then disappeared.
0:34:06 And so then we couldn’t close.
0:34:07 We didn’t know what to do.
0:34:09 And in New York City, you have to sign applications.
0:34:10 You have to do board packages, right?
0:34:12 To fill out applications to get approved
0:34:13 by the condo board and all that.
0:34:15 And he wouldn’t do it.
0:34:16 He literally wouldn’t respond.
0:34:18 And months and months go by
0:34:20 and I’m trying to figure out how to stay on top of them,
0:34:20 how to follow up.
0:34:22 And I sent him a BBM back in the day
0:34:24 when we all had blackberries.
0:34:27 It said something like, hey, I know you mentioned
0:34:29 you have a home in Paris.
0:34:30 I’m actually going to be there tomorrow
0:34:32 if you want to meet and go through the application
0:34:34 and schedule a closing date.
0:34:35 Not thinking you would reply,
0:34:37 but just like, just trying to find ways.
0:34:39 Anything, just like, dude, please respond.
0:34:40 Like, you’re my biggest deal ever.
0:34:41 I need this closing.
0:34:42 Why please don’t be a con artist
0:34:44 who’s stealing money from everybody.
0:34:45 And he wrote back right away.
0:34:48 He’s like, okay, that sounds good tomorrow, 8 p.m.
0:34:49 And gave me an address.
0:34:51 I was like, oh, shit.
0:34:52 I’m not in Paris.
0:34:53 I’m in New York City.
0:34:54 I don’t plan to go to Paris whatsoever.
0:34:56 And I have no money to get there.
0:34:58 So I scraped together like some savings
0:35:01 and figured out how to get to Paris literally
0:35:05 in like 18 hours notice by flying, what was it?
0:35:07 Like air lingus to Dublin.
0:35:11 And then Ryan air, I think it was from Dublin to Paris.
0:35:13 And I went to the location that he told me to go to,
0:35:15 which was a bar.
0:35:18 And then he didn’t show up for hours and hours and hours
0:35:21 and like crying into my bugget.
0:35:22 And I didn’t know what to do
0:35:23 ’cause I was leaving in the morning.
0:35:25 And then he walked in the door
0:35:28 with like an entourage of people that was just totally crazy.
0:35:29 And he didn’t want to talk about the apartments.
0:35:31 But so that at least I knew he was real,
0:35:33 but he was a bit scary.
0:35:35 And all of his friends were very scary people.
0:35:36 And he didn’t want to talk about the apartment.
0:35:37 He’s like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:35:39 He just wanted to see me drink.
0:35:41 Shot after shot after shot of tequila.
0:35:43 And I’m like texting my mom on the side.
0:35:44 I’m like, I’m sorry, I didn’t tell you.
0:35:46 I went to Paris to meet a mystery man.
0:35:48 I met on the internet.
0:35:49 Now getting drunk.
0:35:53 I’m gonna be sold into slavery or I’m gonna be killed.
0:35:55 I don’t know what’s going on.
0:35:58 And eventually I got him to like look at the application.
0:36:01 He like scribbled some stuff down and then he left.
0:36:02 Somehow I got to the airport.
0:36:04 That whole evening is a total blur.
0:36:07 Came back, submitted the application sort of.
0:36:08 The board didn’t want to accept it
0:36:11 because it was like half done kind of,
0:36:14 but they had no choice because in a condo you have to,
0:36:15 you just had the first right of refusal.
0:36:17 So the condo board then either had to buy the apartment
0:36:20 from the sellers or accept it,
0:36:21 but then he disappeared again
0:36:23 and we couldn’t find him until one day.
0:36:24 And this is the end of the story.
0:36:27 One day early in the morning, he calls me.
0:36:29 This is like a year after that first email and call
0:36:31 and says to me, I’m in New York.
0:36:33 I want to close.
0:36:34 That’s not how it happens here.
0:36:36 But okay, sure, no problem.
0:36:37 Called all the attorneys.
0:36:38 Got everyone together, said he’s here.
0:36:40 I’m sorry, let’s just do this, do this.
0:36:44 And this was 2000, I want to say 2011, I want to say.
0:36:47 So the market was, or 2010, the market was awful, right?
0:36:48 We were in the middle of the recession.
0:36:51 So it’s not like anyone else was buying this apartment.
0:36:52 Today it would be a little bit different.
0:36:55 He said he’s at the Mandarin Oriental on Central Park.
0:36:59 I ran up there, waited, never came down,
0:37:01 waited for hours again, all the attorneys there.
0:37:03 Totally think that this whole thing is still a scam.
0:37:04 I’m like, no, you don’t understand.
0:37:06 I met him, I met him, I met him.
0:37:10 Finally, he comes down with a whole entourage of people,
0:37:15 a fleet of black, like bulletproof tinted escalades,
0:37:18 like flies, like literally out of a Michael Bay movie
0:37:20 out in front of the Mandarin Oriental.
0:37:22 He says, sorry, I’m late, let’s get in.
0:37:23 We get in, I’m like 67th Street Department,
0:37:24 you’re buying this right over here.
0:37:26 Do you want to go check on it in the United States?
0:37:28 We do walkthroughs, maybe a punch list,
0:37:29 like let’s get to closing.
0:37:31 He’s like, no, no, no, we go to JFK.
0:37:34 So I started texting my mom again,
0:37:35 and I’m like, I’m an idiot again.
0:37:38 Now I’m with that same mystery man in one of his cars
0:37:41 heading to JFK, we go to the back of JFK
0:37:42 where I’ve never even been before,
0:37:44 and there’s this massive airplane.
0:37:47 I don’t know what it was, like a 737 or something.
0:37:50 He gets out, signs papers, buys it, gets back in the car,
0:37:53 says, now we go close, goes to the closing,
0:37:57 pays in cash, gets a photo of me and him for his BBM,
0:38:02 and turns out that he makes like a billion dollars a month.
0:38:04 Wow.
0:38:07 And he’s in the energy business, I’ll leave it at that.
0:38:11 And he was drunk one night, somewhere in the world,
0:38:13 and thought it would be fun to buy an apartment
0:38:15 in New York City ’cause one of his friends had
0:38:18 and found the pretty photos and saw my picture
0:38:20 and he sent me an email and then called me,
0:38:22 and then he wasn’t really taking it seriously
0:38:24 until I followed up with him over and over and over,
0:38:28 and then he felt bad for me, and so he bought it.
0:38:33 And since then, we’ve done like 300 million together,
0:38:35 every deal is painful, it’s all awful,
0:38:38 but he’s very, very real and it’s worth it every time,
0:38:40 but that deal taught me the power of follow-up,
0:38:43 the power of follow-up and the power of valuable persistence
0:38:45 because I never harassed him, right?
0:38:48 I wasn’t annoying, I was always just checking in,
0:38:50 sending him information, hey, this thing closed over here,
0:38:52 you’re getting a great deal, hey, this is what’s happening,
0:38:55 this is what’s happening, and he also said later on,
0:38:57 he’s like, and I knew you weren’t,
0:38:58 you didn’t have plans to come to Paris.
0:38:59 Oh, he knew.
0:39:02 But you actually, I cannot believe you actually did that,
0:39:03 I was so surprised when you said you were there,
0:39:05 that’s why I bought that apartment.
0:39:06 That’s amazing, and so many other people
0:39:09 would have initially just ignored the email.
0:39:11 Today, I would probably ignore it, yeah.
0:39:13 Oh yeah, I’d rather than lose.
0:39:15 Yeah, you had nothing to lose, and you just,
0:39:16 Other than my life.
0:39:19 He just decided to say yes, and that’s super important.
0:39:23 We’ll be right back after a quick break from our sponsors.
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0:44:14 – So let’s stick on follow up.
0:44:17 I know that there’s three different kinds of follow up.
0:44:19 Follow back, follow through and follow up.
0:44:21 Could you explain that to our listeners?
0:44:24 – Yeah, it is basically like my secret sauce
0:44:25 because when I came to New York City
0:44:27 I didn’t know anybody, I’m not from here.
0:44:29 I grew up outside Boston.
0:44:30 So I knew some people there,
0:44:32 but like my parents aren’t helping me.
0:44:33 You know, I didn’t go to school here
0:44:35 and have all my school friends.
0:44:37 I knew like Midtown.
0:44:40 I knew where all the hand modeling castings were.
0:44:41 That was it.
0:44:43 So I had to meet new people every day, like I told you.
0:44:45 And then I had to follow up with them
0:44:46 to one day get their business.
0:44:48 And that’s what the system is.
0:44:51 So it’s called follow up, follow through, follow back.
0:44:53 It’s my three F’s and I do it every single day
0:44:54 and it’s in my calendar.
0:44:55 In the morning, first thing,
0:44:58 I follow up with everybody from either yesterday
0:45:00 or the week or everybody that I need to follow up with.
0:45:02 Hey, you said you were gonna do this.
0:45:02 Hey, this is happening.
0:45:04 Hey, just wanted to touch base.
0:45:06 Hey, there’s this listing, whatever it might be.
0:45:08 Follow through is doing what you say you’re gonna do.
0:45:09 So if I tell someone
0:45:10 I’m gonna send them something by noon,
0:45:12 you actually do it.
0:45:13 Something my dad taught me really well.
0:45:14 Like you’re only as good as your word.
0:45:16 And if you say you’re gonna do something and you don’t do it,
0:45:19 you are forever banned in people’s minds.
0:45:21 If you say you’re gonna be there on time, be there on time.
0:45:23 If you say you’re gonna be late, then okay.
0:45:25 And just be honest, be upfront
0:45:27 and follow through with what you say you’re gonna do.
0:45:29 And then follow back, which is really important,
0:45:31 is every day I follow back with past clients.
0:45:33 Clients I sold things to 10 years ago.
0:45:36 People I met last week who aren’t even interested.
0:45:38 Just touch and base saying, hey, what’s up?
0:45:40 Following back with deals that died.
0:45:42 Maybe I could put it back together
0:45:45 and that it is the lifeblood of my career
0:45:47 and the way that my team does our deals.
0:45:51 Nonstop, important, valuable follow up.
0:45:53 – Do you think the time investment
0:45:55 that you put into follow up is worth it?
0:45:56 – Oh my God, yes.
0:45:58 Follow up, it’s free.
0:45:59 That’s the thing.
0:45:59 We’re in a service business.
0:46:01 Everybody’s in a service industry.
0:46:02 So it’s all free.
0:46:05 It’s just, I’m gonna have a phone, email and a calendar anyway.
0:46:07 So it’s just putting things in my calendar
0:46:08 and then actually doing it.
0:46:11 It’s in sending an email, sending, especially in 2020.
0:46:14 Like sending an email, a text, a quick phone call or a DM
0:46:15 is all free.
0:46:17 You’re gonna do it anyway.
0:46:19 So it’s absolutely worth it.
0:46:21 Like the amount of money that I have made,
0:46:23 the amount of things that I’ve sold.
0:46:26 When I put some in the book too, like just from follow up
0:46:28 that deals that never, ever, ever, ever, ever
0:46:30 would have happened otherwise,
0:46:32 whether it’s the Mr. X story or people that I followed up
0:46:34 with for, there’s a deal I’m doing today.
0:46:36 I was just telling you about before we started the podcast
0:46:38 because the closing costs are so high, right?
0:46:41 All together it’s like a million dollars in taxes.
0:46:42 The deal is for $12 million.
0:46:45 I have followed back with them ever since I rented
0:46:50 their daughter an apartment in 2010, 10 years ago.
0:46:52 For $2,200 a month.
0:46:54 Just with the parents, just not, just touch base,
0:46:56 following up happy holidays.
0:46:56 I don’t have to.
0:46:58 I didn’t really deal with them before,
0:47:00 but I knew that one day maybe they’d wanna buy a place, right?
0:47:02 And they’d mentioned it to me.
0:47:03 So they dropped the seed.
0:47:07 10 years later, future Ryan is super excited.
0:47:09 I’m happy to sell them an apartment for $12 million.
0:47:10 – Wow, right?
0:47:12 – It’s amazing.
0:47:14 Just that little time investment can go so far
0:47:15 if you do it right.
0:47:16 – Yeah, little bits of time.
0:47:19 Like I, you have 1,000 minutes every day.
0:47:21 You have 1,440 minutes every day actually,
0:47:25 but like 440 of those you’re eating, sleeping,
0:47:26 go to the bathroom.
0:47:28 And so you have 1,000 minutes every day in your bank of time.
0:47:30 Like you are the CEO of your own bank of time.
0:47:32 What are you gonna do with those 1,000 minutes?
0:47:33 How are you gonna use them?
0:47:34 How are you gonna milk them?
0:47:35 How are you gonna get the most out of them
0:47:36 that you possibly can?
0:47:37 And how are you gonna make sure
0:47:40 that you spend them wisely as an investment
0:47:42 into tomorrow’s 1,000 minutes, you know?
0:47:43 – Totally.
0:47:45 – That’s what I think about every day.
0:47:46 – So let’s talk about salespeople.
0:47:49 Salespeople often get a bad rep, you know?
0:47:51 They’re known to be like very pushy.
0:47:53 Before you were saying that you sell enthusiasm.
0:47:55 So you obviously don’t take that approach.
0:47:59 What’s your advice to salespeople who are just too pushy?
0:48:00 – Don’t sell.
0:48:02 You don’t focus on the sell.
0:48:06 Bad salespeople are people who watch a pot boil water.
0:48:08 You know how they say a watch pot never boils?
0:48:09 Have you heard that?
0:48:10 If you sit there and you’re waiting
0:48:13 for the water to boil, it’s like it takes forever, right?
0:48:15 Don’t focus on the sell, okay?
0:48:17 I think that when you are selling,
0:48:19 no one likes to be sold.
0:48:22 Everybody loves to go shopping with friends.
0:48:23 It’s why people like internet shopping
0:48:24 ’cause they don’t want to be sold.
0:48:25 They don’t want to go into that store
0:48:27 and have someone force them to try on shoes.
0:48:29 But if they go into a store and someone comes up
0:48:32 and says, “Yo, that jacket’s awesome.”
0:48:33 You look great.
0:48:34 Let me know if you need anything.
0:48:35 Also the huge sale right over there,
0:48:37 those shoes are insane, crazy.
0:48:39 They were 200 bucks yesterday, today they were 125.
0:48:40 You’d look sick in them.
0:48:42 All of a sudden you’re like,
0:48:45 you’re kind of selling me,
0:48:47 but now I feel good about my jacket choice today.
0:48:50 So that was nice of you and wait, do you have a deal?
0:48:51 Yeah, I guess I could try those.
0:48:53 And then all of a sudden you’re in conversation
0:48:56 and then you’re finding things in common with people, right?
0:49:00 If you literally can be, you both hate the cold or damn,
0:49:02 you don’t have coronavirus, me neither, dude.
0:49:05 Let’s elbow, you know, like literally it’s just conversation.
0:49:07 It’s the power of improv.
0:49:09 That’s why I tell everyone to take improv classes.
0:49:12 You know, if you are gonna live life
0:49:15 talking to other human beings, go take an improv class.
0:49:16 It’ll help you open up.
0:49:18 Like that’s the biggest advice I have for, you know,
0:49:21 that other question you asked in terms of like how you go
0:49:24 from being a shy, overweight kid with really bad skin,
0:49:26 who didn’t wanna talk to anybody.
0:49:29 You take an improv class and you learn how to be a dog
0:49:33 on fire giving birth to your grandmother on Mars
0:49:35 in front of 20 other people.
0:49:37 If you can do that, you can talk to a stranger
0:49:40 on the street about the weather.
0:49:42 And that opens you up, right?
0:49:46 Because no other situation is ever more ridiculous than that.
0:49:48 – Okay, so I wanna spend the next couple of minutes
0:49:50 just talking about the market in general.
0:49:53 How do you typically price a home?
0:49:55 What are the factors that you look into?
0:49:57 – I just pull a number out of a hat, really.
0:50:01 You, listen, you look at, I mean, there’s a lot of things.
0:50:03 First thing, you look at comparable sales.
0:50:07 What else like this home has sold recently?
0:50:08 All right, so that’s the first thing we look at.
0:50:11 So if your house is similar to the house across the street
0:50:14 and that house sold for $500,000,
0:50:17 your house, okay, just based on comparable sales,
0:50:20 probably worth plus minus $500,000,
0:50:21 not because it’s worth that,
0:50:25 but because no buyer wants to ever overpay.
0:50:27 And so your buyer is gonna look at that house
0:50:29 and say, well, that house sold for $500,
0:50:31 I’m not spending more or only spend a little bit more
0:50:34 because you did these value adds to it.
0:50:37 The next thing you look at is what is actively on the market.
0:50:38 So what else is my buyer gonna see?
0:50:40 That is like my house.
0:50:42 So if the house across the street sold for $500,
0:50:43 that’s great for them.
0:50:45 But if now the market’s a little bit different
0:50:47 and now there’s eight other houses on the same block
0:50:50 that are all on the market at 400,
0:50:51 you’re not gonna get $500,000.
0:50:54 You should have sold a year ago, right?
0:50:55 And then we look at condition.
0:50:57 Like, is this house moving ready?
0:50:58 Can someone come in today?
0:50:59 That’s valuable to people.
0:51:03 Not much paint costs and all that stuff.
0:51:04 Are you selling it fully furnished?
0:51:06 Like how much would that cost
0:51:07 somebody to fully furnish your house?
0:51:10 Maybe that’s a great value add.
0:51:11 Do you have a bigger lot?
0:51:12 Do you have a pool?
0:51:13 What are all the different amenities
0:51:16 that you get to offer that other houses don’t?
0:51:17 And then it’s lastly,
0:51:20 based on how people search for real estate these days.
0:51:22 And it’s all starts on the phone now, right?
0:51:23 Or at least on the computer.
0:51:25 It’s all about the search bracket.
0:51:27 You price in the bracket.
0:51:28 You have to.
0:51:30 If you price outside the bracket.
0:51:32 So if your home is worth,
0:51:33 I don’t know, it’s to be simple.
0:51:38 If your home is you think really worth $550,000, right?
0:51:42 You don’t price it at 650 to negotiate anymore.
0:51:43 That’s the way the world used to work, right?
0:51:46 With the hope of maybe getting somebody to make an offer.
0:51:48 ‘Cause that buyer who can afford that house
0:51:50 is not looking up to 650
0:51:53 because the bracket keeps them up to 600.
0:51:55 So you’re saying like in the app itself?
0:51:57 I always, you got to price within search brackets.
0:52:00 And so within the MLS, within the app,
0:52:03 within Zillow, Realtor.org, Trulia, all that stuff,
0:52:04 price within your bracket.
0:52:09 You want to be a heavyweight fighter in a lightweight fight.
0:52:10 Not the other way around.
0:52:13 If you overprice and if you’re at 650,000,
0:52:15 now you’re dealing with somebody who’s senior listing,
0:52:19 who’s forced to look at homes up to 700,000
0:52:21 because that’s the way the search brackets work.
0:52:23 And if you’re your home can’t compete
0:52:27 with an $800,000 home that then reduced to 700,000,
0:52:29 then you don’t want to be in that fight, right?
0:52:30 You’re going to lose every time.
0:52:31 And yeah, you might get people to come by
0:52:34 and come and see it, but they’re going to pass on you
0:52:36 because they’re just using you to shop.
0:52:38 You know, agents and buyers are going to say,
0:52:40 yeah, that home at 650 is nice, probably worth less,
0:52:43 but this house over here that I’m forced to see
0:52:44 is much, much better.
0:52:46 So that’s a really good perspective.
0:52:47 How about location?
0:52:49 Does location matter so much anymore?
0:52:50 Yeah, yeah, that’s, I mean, that’s part of it
0:52:52 with the comparable sales, right?
0:52:54 What just sold and what is currently on the market.
0:52:56 Take New York City, for example.
0:52:59 You know, if you are in Battery Park City,
0:53:00 as much as you think your home is amazing,
0:53:02 I can’t comp it to Tribeca.
0:53:04 It’s just a different neighborhood.
0:53:05 It’s close.
0:53:07 And if there’s no other apartments on the market
0:53:09 for some weird reason, then sure,
0:53:11 but there’s probably other homes on the market
0:53:12 and other things that have sold
0:53:15 and you have to comp within your own neighborhood.
0:53:16 And if you’re in a condo building,
0:53:18 you have to comp in your neighborhood, right?
0:53:20 And then you have to comp within your own vertical
0:53:21 neighborhood, which is your building.
0:53:22 Yeah.
0:53:25 You know, just because the building across the street
0:53:27 got a great deal for their 20th floor apartment
0:53:30 and you’re on the 20th floor of your building,
0:53:31 your building might not be worth as much
0:53:33 for the brand of that building.
0:53:35 So you have to keep all that stuff in mind,
0:53:37 but yeah, location, location, location.
0:53:40 So another question that I have in terms of financials
0:53:42 and buying a home.
0:53:45 For first time home buyers, a big question people have
0:53:47 is like, how much should I put for my down payment, right?
0:53:50 A lot of people say 20%, but then there’s some people
0:53:53 who say 10% or even 3%.
0:53:55 So what’s your advice on that?
0:53:57 So somebody who’s buying a home like less than a million
0:54:01 dollars, I know that’s not your ball game anymore, but.
0:54:02 Yeah, no, we do.
0:54:03 Listen, we are doing a deal right now
0:54:05 for $299,000 in Brooklyn.
0:54:06 We do everything.
0:54:08 I’m balls up, right?
0:54:10 I wanna do as many deals as I possibly can.
0:54:12 You wanna put down at least 20%, okay?
0:54:14 And if you can, you wanna put down 30.
0:54:15 Oh, wow.
0:54:17 30% is healthy.
0:54:18 It’s not about what you put down.
0:54:19 It’s not about the purchase price.
0:54:21 It’s about your monthly payments.
0:54:23 You live in your monthly payment.
0:54:25 That is your budget, that’s your bills.
0:54:28 It affects your Netflix budget, it affects your dinners.
0:54:29 You live in the monthly payment.
0:54:32 You don’t live in a million dollar house.
0:54:36 You live in a house that costs you $4,500 a month, right?
0:54:38 Or a house that costs you $2,000 a month.
0:54:41 And so, whatever way you can skin the cat
0:54:43 to get your payments the lowest possible,
0:54:44 that’s what you wanna do.
0:54:46 But you wanna be smart about it, right?
0:54:48 You don’t wanna over leverage yourself
0:54:50 because the payments are small,
0:54:51 but then you don’t know what to do
0:54:53 and you can’t sell it and then you’re stuck
0:54:54 ’cause you lose your job and what have you, right?
0:54:56 That’s what happened in 2008.
0:54:59 But you always remember you live in your monthly payment
0:55:01 and you always wanna put down at least 30%.
0:55:02 Yeah.
0:55:05 So something that we ask all our guests
0:55:08 is what is your secret to profiting in life?
0:55:10 My secret to profiting.
0:55:13 And it doesn’t have to be financial, it can be anything.
0:55:15 It’s the five new people every day.
0:55:18 Like that’s my whipped cream.
0:55:20 Like that’s my profit every day.
0:55:22 The deals that I do every day,
0:55:24 the time I spend with my family,
0:55:26 the workouts I have in the morning,
0:55:28 my connection to my own wellbeing.
0:55:31 Like that’s all, I’m gonna do it anyway.
0:55:32 Like that’s all part of my win.
0:55:35 Like I know when I wake up, what I’m doing that day.
0:55:36 I’m doing all that.
0:55:39 But going out and meeting those new people,
0:55:40 that’s what the world’s all about.
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