Learn. Share. Evolve…

0:00:05 dude manifest is out there’s a new word uh what generative wait is high agency are we
0:00:11 selling high agency we’re selling high agency at the top right now we’re spacking high agency
0:00:18 it’s gone taking that cash and we’re plowing it into generative i feel like i can rule the world
0:00:24 i know i could be what i want to i put my all in it like no days off on the road let’s travel
0:00:30 never looking all right what i miss how was the week week was good uh what did we do we had chris
0:00:36 corner that episode’s popped off it’s over 100k on youtube so that’s going well and uh dude there
0:00:44 were so many replies to one idea that was in that episode i don’t know if you listened to the episode
0:00:51 the golfing one the golfing one yeah i got literally hundreds of replies of people who are like i could
0:00:54 do this right here in my hometown people are studying powerpoint decks people are doing drive
0:00:58 by sending me videos of the lake where they think they could do it they’re reaching out cold it’s
0:01:03 very intense uh how many people have replied to this and now we’re going and what was the idea was it
0:01:09 was about betting as to where you could hit it no so basically on the way there’s a place in new
0:01:14 zealand on the way to the golf course just kind of side of the road there’s like there’s a road that’s
0:01:18 driving by a body of water and if you just stop on the side of the road there’s this thing called
0:01:23 like whatever the hole-in-one challenge and you buy a bucket of balls and you’re going to try to hit
0:01:29 this hole-in-one of this little golf hole that’s floating out you know 100 100 yards away in the
0:01:35 water if you hit if you get it you get 10 grand and so it’s just like a fun thing for you to do with
0:01:40 your buddies like on the way or to or from a golf course and he was talking about like you know sort
0:01:46 of napkin mathing what he thinks it’s making based off of the available information he’s like i think this
0:01:51 thing does like 300 to 500k you know in revenue and now the costs are pretty marginal it’s like
0:01:55 person standing there with an ipad uh there’s a scuba diver that goes in once a week and fishes out
0:02:02 the balls like that’s it and so people got we we basically said hey i think this idea could work
0:02:08 in more places than just this random roadside thing in new zealand let’s bring this to life and who wants
0:02:13 to do this and a lot of people have come come out and so we’re gonna we’re gonna make it a mfm project
0:02:17 we’re gonna see what we can do with this so i like all the comments were like this is what i’ve
0:02:22 been missing with mfm because like we started a lot with that and then like our interests have grown and
0:02:26 so the content has grown to be or evolved to be a little bit different sometimes and one critique is
0:02:32 like um uh what is this my first billion because we talk about like uh like you know bigger ideas and
0:02:40 um i was thinking i uh you know we’ve become um acquaintances with joe lonsdale who uh because of
0:02:46 this podcast who’s worth i don’t know billions some amount of billions and i was uh with him recently
0:02:52 by the way if you need to pick that up let me know if you need to pick up that that name drop uh did i
0:02:58 drop did i drop that up here did i drop that name drop somewhere uh no but he uh and he was telling me
0:03:02 like oh man or i was with him when i got my twitter check like you know how you get like
0:03:07 twitter money now like you’re like right for example i for some reason my twitter was a thousand dollars
0:03:12 last payment and uh like the month before it was like six hundred dollars and i was like man this is
0:03:16 crazy i just got paid six hundred dollars for tweeting which is insane he’s like yeah i got like
0:03:22 four hundred dollars and he was joking about how it feels uh just as exciting every once in a while
0:03:27 to get like a four hundred dollar thing and it does however much money he’s created in his lifetime
0:03:32 and i was wondering do you feel like when you’re talking about these things like you just lit up
0:03:36 when you talked about three hundred four hundred thousand dollars when that may or may not i mean
0:03:40 i don’t think so that’s not going to really move the needle for you in your life um but it’s kind of
0:03:46 exciting isn’t it yeah not because of the money it’s just i think it’s awesome uh i think the idea
0:03:53 the idea itself is fun making it happen sounds like it’s going to be fun you know actually i was
0:03:59 just uh watching um an interview with a guy who they the nba finals just ended they had game seven
0:04:03 the thunder one and there was hey i watched it i watched it there was this interview with one of
0:04:06 the guys so they they asked jade up they’re like you know when you look back on this year what’s the
0:04:12 what are you going to remember what were the high points and he goes he’s like it’s weird dude he’s
0:04:17 like i remember if you think if i think about this year he’s like i remember me and chet we would go
0:04:21 to our hotel room we would do film sessions but back when he was coming back back from injury to get it
0:04:25 going or like these team dinners that we were having he’s like i couldn’t even tell he’s like i don’t
0:04:30 remember what happened last series like i don’t remember in the the recent games what happened but
0:04:37 those kind of like those inputs on the journey are like just like are so vivid to me and this has been a
0:04:42 very common thing where if you talk to pro players after their career is done and you’re like what do
0:04:48 you miss the most and you expect them to be like the big pressure moments that those big games and
0:04:53 of course they do like those but the thing they talk about always is the team bus rides the locker room
0:04:57 the it’s all of the like camaraderie stuff that happens along the way it’s like the kind of the
0:05:03 build-up is the stuff that they miss the most and um i think i think there’s that for entrepreneurship
0:05:10 too uh i think there’s that that’s a huge amount of the fun of it and it’s what you get excited about
0:05:16 you need the number to sort of justify it the number gives you some air cover for why you’re acting like a
0:05:21 little kid you’re so excited about something the numbers help because why are you taking this silly
0:05:27 thing so seriously but uh i think we would probably all do it without the numbers as well or if the numbers
0:05:32 are half as much or whatever yeah and i’ve noticed the best the the people who love mfm the most and
0:05:37 the guests who you and i love the most are folks who um uh you know i hung out with a friend of mine
0:05:41 um and she was like because she was from a bad neighborhood now she’s rich she’s like you know
0:05:46 i’m so good at going really high and going really low i was like what’s that mean she’s like i can hang
0:05:50 out with like my homies from where i grew up and we could just like shoot the shit and kind of be a
0:05:55 little like hood ratty or i can go hang out with a billionaire and i could i love that too i can i
0:06:00 have so much joy doing that as well and i can blend in and get along with everyone and i think that’s
0:06:05 like that’s like what the pot is it’s like you like talking about these smaller things as well as the big
0:06:10 things and it’s the same type of person who loves both yeah exactly also do you think about business as
0:06:17 like a sport because that’s more and more become my mental model is the way that because i you meet
0:06:22 people and a lot of people we know have now become successful but they’re still doing it and
0:06:29 obviously for many of them i i call it they’ve already made the last dollar they’ll ever spend
0:06:35 right let’s say you make 30 million dollars at that point you’ve already earned the last dollar you’ll
0:06:40 ever need to spend especially once you take into account that that 30 million could just sit in a
0:06:45 whether it’s a simple interest-bearing account or the s&p 500 and it’ll just keep it’ll double every
0:06:51 seven years so 30 becomes 60 60 becomes 120 120 becomes 240 and that just all happened over the
0:06:57 course of you know something like 25 years and so you’ve you don’t need to go earn the next dollar
0:07:02 but why do they anyways and part of it is i think it feels good to be good at something and if you’re
0:07:05 good at something it’s hard to stop doing it because the feedback loop of being good at something
0:07:12 is strong but i think in that same way if you think about business not as a mechanism to make money but
0:07:17 as a sport as uh as a sport you play then it’s like oh of course just because you’re great at
0:07:21 tennis and you won a tournament doesn’t mean you’ll stop playing tennis why would you do that that’s your
0:07:25 sport you love to play the sport you’ll basically play the sport till your body breaks down and doesn’t
0:07:29 let you play the sport anymore and it feels good to manifest it feels good to have an idea and to see
0:07:34 it in the reality into reality and it’s really fun flexing that model manifest is out there’s a new word
0:07:40 uh what generative generative what does that mean this is this has happened a few times to me now
0:07:45 i uh wait is high agency are we selling high agency we’re selling high agency at the top right now
0:07:52 we’re spacking high agency it’s gone taking that cash and we’re plowing it into generative
0:07:56 okay so generative i was on a podcast and i was like at the end i was like how was that and you
0:07:59 could tell me the truth because i do podcasts all the time with guests i know it’s sometimes hit or
0:08:06 miss like give me the from one podcaster to another what was that like for you and he’s like it was
0:08:12 great because you’re extremely generative he goes what and he goes it was also hard because you’re
0:08:17 extremely generative like what does that mean he goes i’ll say two things like i’ll give you one topic
0:08:24 but you can almost like bloom that or expand that into like a story a framework of this a related idea
0:08:30 a simple example you just generated all that content off the cuff right away and he goes you
0:08:34 know biology is like that biology is extremely generative you give him one thing and he’s able
0:08:40 to like take it from like the origin of man to you know to 100 years in the future and he could connect
0:08:45 all those dots so i heard it once i was like okay that’s cool i don’t know if i just got insulted or
0:08:50 complimented being called generative but i’ll take it and then james courier said the same thing he goes
0:08:54 he’s like he’s like the reason we get along is because we’re both extremely generative he’s like
0:08:59 we like being around generative people and he’s like you know why do we admire elon it’s not because
0:09:03 he’s rich it was because he’s the most generative of all of us right and he’s the least fearful and
0:09:07 that’s why he’s able to be more generative he’s he’s like he literally generates businesses like
0:09:13 the boring company and neural link and spacex and tesla he’s like he’s generating kids he’s generating
0:09:18 ideas he generates a president he generates he’s just doing so much and that’s admirable to
0:09:23 somebody who is generative and so i started using that little lens i started looking at people being
0:09:27 like how generative is this person meaning if you would give them an inch could they take a mile
0:09:32 and what is their overall level of output in their life you know like how generative are they with
0:09:37 like for example james courier it’s not just businesses he’s generating he you know at one point
0:09:42 he also started a church in san francisco he like started a new religion and you know then he created
0:09:46 this uh like sort of incubator this fund then he created a podcast he’s just constantly
0:09:51 creating things because it’s extremely generative and it’s whether it’s with his kids life or it’s
0:09:56 his business life or whatever so i started to realize oh yeah i’m really attracted to that i like people
0:10:02 who are like that and i i want to be like that and figure out a way to make that work is um is a fun
0:10:04 challenge it’s a generative is the new word
0:10:10 all right this episode is brought to you by hubspot they’re doing a big conference this is their big
0:10:15 one they do called inbound they have a ton of great speakers that are coming to san francisco
0:10:19 september 3rd to september 5th and it’s got a pretty incredible lineup they have comedians like
0:10:26 amy poehler they have dario from anthropic dark cash sean evans from hot ones and if you’re somebody
0:10:30 who’s in marketing or sales or ai and you just want to know what’s going on what’s coming next
0:10:34 it’s a great event to go to and hey guess what i’m going to be there you can go to inbound.com
0:10:40 slash register to get your ticket to inbound 2025 again september 3rd through 5th in san francisco
0:10:46 hope to see you there have you ever heard of this book called the inner game of tennis
0:10:53 i’ve heard of it but i’ve never read it is it good yeah who’s the pro who’s it about okay so the inner
0:10:58 game of tennis i randomly discovered it because i was at the airport and i was just looking for a book
0:11:03 to read on my kindle and i wanted something short and i for some reason you’re like i’m in a bookstore
0:11:08 we’re looking for books to download separately no like i i don’t remember what i was just like i think
0:11:13 like i was on amazon on my phone and like a sports psychology book came up and i was like okay that’s
0:11:17 intriguing what are what’s like the top sports psychology book there is or something like that
0:11:22 and i randomly came across the inner game of tennis it’s about uh it’s written by a guy named timothy
0:11:29 galway and it’s one of these books that it’s about life and it just uses tennis tennis as the analogy
0:11:35 and the premise of the book is that you have two selves self one is your person so like when you say
0:11:42 like um uh when you’re playing tennis and you hit you do a bad hit you go uh why do i suck so much or
0:11:49 like like that is self one the critical self and then self two is like your animalistic self who doesn’t
0:11:54 um who doesn’t uh think too much and it’s just your body and that learns by observing and it’s all about
0:12:01 how to be generative uh and by by ignoring self one and letting self two do all the work and it gives you
0:12:06 all of these tips and tricks on how to listen to self too and this sounds very woo woo uh and it is
0:12:11 a little bit woo woo but the book was written in the 1970s and the coach of the seahawks writes the
0:12:16 forward what’s his name pete carroll p carroll yeah and like every new edition they still are like they’re
0:12:21 still releasing new editions where all these like who’s who of leaders are writing about it and i think
0:12:25 i i didn’t realize it but after i started reading it i was like oh wait tim ferris talked about this
0:12:30 book that’s one of his favorite books of all time and i’ve been reading it a whole lot and it applies
0:12:35 very much to business i think it’s only 150 page book i’ve been reading um i’m almost done i read it
0:12:41 in like two days uh the the it’s very similar or very applicable to business which is what you said
0:12:46 about elon of he’s not fearful and things like that this book actually gives you like a set of
0:12:50 frameworks and a way to communicate yourself in order to not be fearful when you are coming up with
0:12:56 new ideas this is incredibly fascinating dude this is awesome i love this type of book it says
0:13:00 the inner game of tennis the classic guide to peak performance introduction by bill gates and a forward
0:13:04 by pete carroll isn’t that crazy i didn’t know that that i didn’t i don’t have i don’t have the bill
0:13:10 gates one so i didn’t know that so he wrote the the introduction that’s wild and so have you used any
0:13:15 of this or give me like has it have you found a way to kind of apply any of these yet well so like
0:13:21 a very simple example is like for lifting weights or for going for a run when you lift weights you’re
0:13:24 like okay i have to lift this weight for three times and it’s the heaviest weight that i’ve ever
0:13:30 done so i’m really scared you don’t listen to that at all and instead you just get under it and you go
0:13:35 i’m gonna let self to do all the work i’m gonna trust self too and if i fail i will not be judgmental
0:13:42 i’m not gonna say you suck i’m said i’ll say uh you know your knee moved in a strange way so i’m just
0:13:47 going to objectively acknowledge what’s happening and then i put and then i when i want to lift
0:13:52 three times i get it up on me and i just observe the weight on me and i only go for one rep and i’ll
0:13:56 be like all right how does that feel self two let’s just do the second rep so i basically am talking to
0:14:01 myself sort of like an objective machine not an emotional person so the whole i’m fearful i’m
0:14:06 fearful i’m fearful you just set that aside and you go it’s self two time there is no room for that
0:14:11 it is only room for uh objectiveness all right i did something similar to this in this in this vein
0:14:16 that i didn’t even plan to talk about but i’ll just tell you this because i think it’s kind of similar
0:14:23 so one thing i noticed is anytime i go into a project uh you know i obviously have a lot of excitement
0:14:30 and i have a lot of hope at the beginning correct that’s obvious and then the second obvious thing is
0:14:36 that i’m going to hit some sort of obstacles walls plateaus something that i don’t want to happen is
0:14:41 for sure going to happen i’ve never once experienced a project that i just simply started everything went
0:14:45 as planned and it had a happy ending like this literally just never happened for me to expect that
0:14:50 to happen would honestly be a little bit foolish it’s like why would i think that that was the case
0:14:54 yet at the same time as soon as i hit those obstacles on those walls i’m like shit
0:15:00 like i wish this didn’t happen i don’t want this to happen why is this happening and i waste all this
0:15:04 energy on something that was inevitable it’s like playing mario and being like oh my god i can’t
0:15:09 believe these goombas are walking at me it’s like dude that’s the game like what do you mean like you
0:15:13 wanted to play this game without anybody like trying to bite you you know i don’t understand what you
0:15:19 thought this was going to be and so recently i was doing a project and uh last week i wrote out a thing
0:15:25 in advance i’m just going to kind of read you this so i basically wrote like a simple letter to self
0:15:31 for like two months down the road and by the way three months down the road according to tim according
0:15:36 to the inner game of tennis when you have that feeling you don’t you do not judge it as positive
0:15:42 or negative you say now this is a challenge okay noted and then you just keep going do you know what
0:15:48 i mean there is no why like this is horrible this is awful why me that that that that there are no
0:15:52 emotions you do not judge you think you don’t judge the the emotion you’re feeling you don’t judge
0:15:58 yourself for feeling it or you don’t judge the thing both so you uh you you only objectively acknowledge
0:16:06 it so you say like uh so the ball was out okay right noted the ball was hit too hard and then you’re
0:16:11 you trust self too to adjust but you don’t you know you know what i’m saying you do not acknowledge
0:16:18 or judge it as i hate this i suck this is bad it just the ball was out so i’m just going to give you
0:16:22 a little sense of how i wrote this so i was like i was like hey it’s me from the future i’m writing
0:16:27 this to you three months from now first congrats thing you did so good turned out amazing i’m really
0:16:32 proud of you slash me uh and i said this is a letter that is guiding you to some of the entirely
0:16:37 predictable upcoming road bumps that are headed your way um not only is it predictable that there will be
0:16:41 road bumps i could probably tell you right now what they’re going to be all right because like
0:16:46 that’s true so for example i was thinking about this isn’t what i was doing but just to make it a
0:16:52 simple example let’s say you’re trying to hire a head of sales there’s some entirely predict like you
0:16:55 know you want to do it you know you’ll you’ll be able to do it but there’s some entirely predictable
0:17:00 road bumps which is like um you know you’re probably going to procrastinate starting it a little
0:17:04 bit because it’s the idea of finding that perfect person’s a little bit hard and you might put it off a
0:17:09 little bit then then you’ll talk to some candidates who are disappointing you may even run into a
0:17:13 candidate who’s really great but the offer doesn’t work out maybe maybe they don’t take it maybe it’s
0:17:18 not the right time in their life etc etc so you can basically up front tell yourself yeah these four
0:17:22 obstacles are probably going to be here i’ve played this level of the game before or i could just see
0:17:27 what’s coming and so when they come it takes the emotional edge off of it because it’s like yeah i know
0:17:32 there’s no i don’t feel betrayed by this i don’t feel surprised by this like i knew you just say
0:17:38 hello to it here you are i thought i’d be seeing you soon and i also i had already kind of thought
0:17:42 about like what i would do to get around that before it hits me and i’m in like an emotional state so it’s
0:17:47 like yeah i’m probably gonna meet a bunch of people who are kind of disappointing and it’ll probably feel
0:17:51 in the moment like god am i ever gonna find somebody great but of course i will i only need one and it’s a
0:17:55 numbers game and i should i should probably just expect that i’m gonna talk to about you know 30 to
0:18:02 40 people and that 25 of those people are gonna be truly just a waste of time uh you know in terms of the
0:18:06 interview but that’s okay that’s that’s part of the process and you tell yourself that up front and then as it’s
0:18:10 happening you’re like yeah well i already i already addressed this i don’t need to like react to it again
0:18:12 because i already kind of pre-reacted to the whole thing
0:18:18 and what uh is this project that you’re doing like big or like do you recommend doing this for a small
0:18:23 thing or only a big thing i don’t know this is my first time actually doing it like the corny step of
0:18:30 like writing it out to myself i’m like dear sean yeah and it’s like p.s you’re pretty fucking lame for
0:18:35 write this yeah exactly it’s like all right that’s three pages now this was cool when it was a paragraph
0:18:44 um i think it was it was very helpful i will do it again um i will do it again i mean i don’t know
0:18:49 how much this actually like it doesn’t it sort of blunts the pain but the pain’s still there you know
0:18:52 what i mean it’s like when you get a shot at the doctor it’s like if you really are looking at it and
0:18:56 hyper fixated on it and you start hyperventilating about it yeah it’s kind of a worse experience if you
0:19:00 look away you might still feel a little prick but you know you took the edge off of it i think that’s
0:19:05 what this has done for me all right so we’re talking about like big and small do you want me
0:19:13 to tell you about a small thing and a big idea that are to me are equally fascinating okay go to
0:19:21 patronview.com so i was in view okay yeah so i was with nick gray this weekend so i did this amazing
0:19:27 or we did this amazing vacation where my friend david owns a home in utah and about eight of us
0:19:33 or maybe six of us plus our spouses and our kids all went and hung out and uh it was amazing and nick
0:19:39 was there and i was looking at his computer and i said nick what are you doing he goes let me tell you
0:19:46 and it was very fascinating and so it’s called patron view uh patronview.com and so nick used to own this
0:19:52 website or sorry own the service called museum hack where it was kind of amazing that it existed but you
0:19:59 would pay a hundred dollars and nick or one of his tour guides would take you to uh the met and give you
0:20:06 a sort of gorilla uh tour of the um of the museum and it was amazing and so that’s where he got really
0:20:12 into museums and he became buddies somehow or somehow got uh uh in with the guys who do the fundraising
0:20:17 and because he’s a business person he was like oh wow it’s so fascinating that one person is donating a million
0:20:22 dollars 10 million dollars 20 million dollars to these museums and they do it every year into tons
0:20:29 of different museums that’s really amazing and so recently with a mutual buddy stetson blake they
0:20:37 built this website where it’s pretty amazing where all he did was if you go to the met or one of a dozen
0:20:42 or hundreds of other museums they every year they have to put out a pdf that explains who donated money
0:20:48 and how much money that person donated and so he’s aggregated all of them hundreds or maybe even
0:20:56 thousands and he used ai to upload all of them into a database so if you are fundraising for a museum
0:21:01 i believe if i had to guess you’re going to be able to pay his service money to find out who the whales
0:21:07 are you know whatever and it’s crazy that because of ai he was able to make this he told me uh for two
0:21:14 thousand dollars i’m just going to read the about page it says uh we’re a research platform dedicated
0:21:18 to documenting cultural philanthropy i’ve never actually heard that before which just shows how
0:21:22 like much of a noob i am about philanthropy but that makes sense so people who donate to things that
0:21:27 are about culture and then it says where and then it says the data our research is pulling from annual
0:21:33 reports 990 tax filings institutional publications official documents and proprietary sources this lets us
0:21:37 present donor information that’s never before been displayed we like to think of it as celebrating
0:21:43 philanthropy and enabling development departments pretty cool right awesome it’s great right like
0:21:47 this is i was i was like nick what’s your deal here like you want to turn this into a business
0:21:52 and he’s very nick is happy like he’s not looking for anything he’s like i don’t know i’m just
0:21:58 tinkering and in my head as someone who is probably less uh you know uh content than him i was like
0:22:03 oh man like nick you could do this you could do this you could do this and that’s like how the entire
0:22:07 conversation uh came about but isn’t this pretty cool that he’s like building this and this is his
0:22:13 hobby and the fact that ai has made this so easy yeah dude this is great i mean nick i’ve already
0:22:18 you know really shouted him out on here a ton of times because he’s somebody who’s made a big impact
0:22:23 on me just seeing the way this guy rolls through life i’m like he just does things for his own amusement
0:22:29 he does things on his terms and i think he does things with high intentionality and he’s doesn’t
0:22:34 see and he basically resisted the rat race i think those are the people i admire the most of all is the
0:22:40 people that have resisted the rat race like i think he neither chases money nor status um and
0:22:44 if you think about the people who are talented and successful in your life how many do you think
0:22:51 actually truly are resisting money and status very very few i know probably two people him and jack
0:22:57 smith yes it’s pretty crazy and so you just sort of watch their moves and then you look at them and
0:23:01 you know you can kind of learn from them so this is this is extremely cool like and what’s funny about
0:23:08 nick is every two or three years or something like that he likes to uh find a publicly traded company that
0:23:13 he loves and he’ll make a big bet on it and right now his or for the past probably four or five years
0:23:17 actually his bet has been cloudflare like for some reason i don’t know he’s got all this analysis he
0:23:22 like loves it to the point where like when he hosted an event he specifically hosted his event in the
0:23:28 cloudflare uh event space because he’s like so loyal and he’ll wear cloudflare t-shirts whatever
0:23:34 um like one time there was a a race uh like a like a 5k or a marathon through austin and he’ll like
0:23:38 hold up a sign that says like cloudflare rules like this because he wants that you told me like
0:23:43 at his birthday party he had his birthday party at the cloudflare office and then midway through the
0:23:47 birthday party he ran upstairs and got like two like like a product manager like a marketing manager
0:23:54 to come down and be like hey everybody quick word from jack from the marketing department why don’t
0:23:59 you just tell us about the great things you got going on at cloudflare the guy’s like uh yeah so you
0:24:04 know before and before he brought that guy in he goes i need everyone to treat jack from cloudflare
0:24:09 like a celebrity and so when he walked in we go oh my god is that jack are you the vp of
0:24:15 engineering at cloudflare oh my god he’s here he’s here the stock is the stock is up 400 in the last
0:24:20 five years so he’s done pretty well he’s done well and if you click the about page i know for a fact
0:24:26 so he lists an area that says technology patron view patron view is built with modern web tech to
0:24:33 ensure fast reliable access to data and he only did that so he could list that he uses cloudflare i know
0:24:38 that’s exactly how he thought um but the reason i’m bringing this up is i think that if you’re like
0:24:43 just starting to build a business or something you should follow patron view or like go there like go
0:24:48 there once a week and i and i would bet that you’re gonna see like it evolve like uh you know it’s sort
0:24:53 of like measuring your kid on the wall like you’re gonna see like the measuring like like that’s what’s
0:24:57 gonna happen with this cool too that i think another another cool thing about this is this fits
0:25:03 into like a genre that you know personal software so uh or maybe social software so basically
0:25:11 uh when the internet came out before pre-internet the only people that made media were media companies
0:25:17 you know you got your media from the new york times and the huffington post whatever like newspapers
0:25:23 magazines tv etc and then when the internet came out and you got facebook and twitter and instagram and
0:25:27 snapchat then social media became a thing and everybody became a little broadcaster right everybody
0:25:31 broadcasted little moments of their life or their content or their their interest whatever it was
0:25:38 and there was this explosion like you know a sort of like 1 billion x increase in the amount of media
0:25:43 that was created because everybody was doing it and like one clear thing i see that’s happening in the
0:25:47 world today is that that’s now happening with software so software used to be something that only
0:25:53 software companies and software engineers could make and you know there’s only like i don’t know
0:25:58 there’s less than a hundred million roughly software engineers like proper like professional software
0:26:04 engineers in the world so you know a hundred million out of eight billion people could do the thing and
0:26:08 you know if in terms of software companies there’s even less maybe a hundred thousand uh software
0:26:14 companies i don’t know it’s order of magnitude roughly and now with like replet and v0 and all these
0:26:19 different tools it’s going to be like social media we’re like oh i have i carry in my pocket a thing
0:26:23 that can make media it’s like i carry my pocket a thing that can make software so a guy like nick
0:26:29 who before this probably couldn’t have taken his idea and made it into an app because he would have to
0:26:34 either a learn to code or b go hire like expensive programmers to make this happen like he did most of
0:26:39 this with ai and so you see personal software this like you know this personal software category which was
0:26:45 like didn’t exist three years ago or five years ago um is now going to have the same sort of like
0:26:52 one billion x you know increase uh just because anybody who’s got an idea can now make their idea now
0:26:58 today it’s like broken three-fourths of the time doesn’t quite work but like every six months that number
0:27:03 goes down by 15 and so you know within two or three years that number is going to be like zero right
0:27:07 it’s going to be like when you have an idea you make your app everything that i’ve been making on
0:27:13 replet and lovable and cursor it’s basically just like a figma replacement like i’m just like it’s
0:27:17 basically just like drawing on paper yeah it’s just like a mock-up and you still need someone to like
0:27:20 actually do the work but it but it’s a sick mock-up
0:27:27 like it looks yeah somebody called it minimum viable promise so it’s a minimal viable product it’s
0:27:31 like it’s not really a product but it’s like it kind of has like you make a promise you can see the
0:27:34 promise of something and i think that’s what a lot of these tools are able to do today
0:27:42 this episode is brought to you by hubspot media they have a cool new podcast that’s for ai called
0:27:46 the next wave it’s by matt wolf and nathan lands and they’re basically talking about all the new tools
0:27:51 that are coming out how the landscape is changing what’s going on with ai tech so if you want to be
0:27:56 up to date on ai tech it’s a cool podcast you could check out listen to the next wave wherever you get
0:28:03 your podcast have you heard of a guy named edwin chen edwin chen i mean there’s like you probably
0:28:09 have there’s probably six thousand of them on my facebook feed yeah i went to school in beijing i
0:28:17 think i got a few edwin chens in my rolodex edwin chen might be the like if you uh did like a chart
0:28:23 of like richest slash unknown slash youngest person in the world i think it’s gonna be edwin chen is this
0:28:33 the guy who’s doing surge so yeah so edwin chen uh in like 2018 2019 he worked at facebook and the
0:28:40 story is is that he was tasked with like making some type of yelp style product and what that meant was
0:28:47 he had a list of 50 000 vendors and he needed to figure out which of those 50 000 was a restaurant
0:28:55 and which were uh a grocery store uh and so he went and hired a firm uh some company to like
0:29:00 parse it out and it’s like manual you you had to do it manually like you had to like hire some firm
0:29:05 that had a lot of uh offshore talents to go through and do it all manually by hand and he was like it took
0:29:10 us four months or six months something like that which basically just meant we had to sit and wait
0:29:13 like we couldn’t do anything until we had that data so i just had to sit and wait
0:29:21 and so he had this idea where he was going to make a better way to do data labeling and the data
0:29:27 data labeling is important now because that is what a lot of ai companies use which i had no idea they
0:29:32 did that and i’ll explain how they do that but basically when a company like open ai uh wants to
0:29:39 figure out if a certain reply is unethical so like for example asking like if it is it okay to like
0:29:44 hit someone or i don’t know like whatever like questions you would ask it a real person and
0:29:48 actually not just a real person but like a really smart person uh even someone who like does engineering
0:29:55 or uh philosophy needs to spend time going through all the potential answers and to tell open ai i think
0:30:00 this one sort of fits what you’re going for but anyway edwin had this idea of i’m going to create this
0:30:07 massive workforce of philosophers of engineers of ivy league grad grads who can go through and label all of
0:30:14 these answers as good or bad so ai companies can kind of i can be like their offshore talent and so
0:30:22 he’s done this uh and it started in 2020 now he has a hundred thousand people who are in the marketplace
0:30:27 working for him as these data labelers and this company is completely unknown so if you i think it’s
0:30:35 surge ai i believe is the url so if you go to surge ai it’s a landing page with one paragraph that’s an
0:30:39 amazing paragraph if you want you can read it you want to read it yeah i was just reading it what
0:30:44 made people like hemingway callow and von newman’s so extraordinary their life the books they read the
0:30:48 stumbles they had the reinforcement every time friends laughed at their jokes and every time they didn’t
0:30:53 it’s the people that met the police explored at every decision they made along the way data does for ai
0:30:59 what life does for humans it elevates the neural networks that know nothing about the world into the
0:31:05 intelligence capable of providing new art setting rocket ships to mars etc our mission is to shape
0:31:09 agi with the richness of human intelligence curious witty imaginative unexpected brilliance we wake up
0:31:14 every day trying to produce the data that makes this possible amazing right romantic it’s romantic
0:31:24 and then this guy made like a giant fleet of overseas data labelers sound like the the army from 300
0:31:31 yeah yeah it’s the it’s the best and the real website i believe is data annotation dot tech that’s the
0:31:38 website where the uh that’s the website where the uh where the annotators go to apply but the way the
0:31:44 business the way yeah it’s much more traditional and that one there’s like a brown dude staring at a
0:31:49 laptop with a reflection blurring his eyes and it says get paid to train ai on your schedule and so the
0:31:55 way the business model works is they have a hundred thousand of these folks and they train them on
0:32:01 different standards and whatever and then they’ve also made software so uh they can show the the the
0:32:07 basically homework or tasks to their folks and a company like open ai or uh google whatever whatever
0:32:13 is going to pay a surge millions and millions of dollars and surge is then going to take something like 30 or 40
0:32:19 percent of it and give it to the annotator to do the work so this company is only five years old
0:32:27 and it’s uh it was leaked that they did one billion dollars in revenue in the last 12 months and this
0:32:34 guy edwin chen he’s only 37 years old and he owns 100 of the company they have not taken any outside
0:32:41 funding now listen their biggest competitor is a company called scale scale is run by this guy named
0:32:47 alexander wang i think alex alex wang i think his name is and it recently sold for something like 30
0:32:52 times revenue i believe it they were doing like 800 900 million in revenue they just sold half of the
0:32:59 the company to facebook i think it was for 28 billion or 30 yeah 30 which means which means this guy uh edwin
0:33:08 who’s 37 and has a five-year-old company presumably is worth something like 30 billion dollars and you
0:33:14 can’t find him on twitter he has no blog you can’t find photos of him he used to have a blog but you have
0:33:19 to go to web archive in order to find it because he took it down and his customers are like edwin is not
0:33:24 online you can’t find him anywhere and we like it that way his born his business is very boring the
0:33:30 branding is basically non-existent and it just does a very good job and compared to scale who’s like you
0:33:35 know the hottest kid on the block like alex wang was just on theo von’s podcast he was at the inauguration
0:33:41 he’s kind of like kind of like uh the the it guy right now these guys are the exact opposite
0:33:44 you’re not going to find them anywhere they only have 100 employees they’re totally under the radar
0:33:54 and uh it’s super super fascinating dude this is uh this is wild uh i i did not know that he
0:33:59 bootstrapped the whole thing i i also had never heard this company until scale got bought i’d never
0:34:04 heard of this company so they’re the company is is killing it now because scale got bought so because
0:34:09 scale got bought is now owned basically by facebook google and a bunch of other companies they go ah we
0:34:12 don’t want to we don’t have with you anymore we’re going straight to surge but they were already winning
0:34:19 they were at a billion in revenue and scale was at 750 billion and the reason why they’re winning is
0:34:25 because they are they charge a premium and they’re uh they he’s like i don’t we got scale but it’s like
0:34:31 i wasn’t trying to get scale meaning i wasn’t trying to grow big i was trying to hire the best people
0:34:37 and to train them really well and i charged for it i charged three times what scale charges and the
0:34:42 results have been better and people really like us because of it and this whole table data labeling
0:34:47 industry i had no idea about this i i didn’t know that people were behind the scenes making these
0:34:53 decisions it’s kind of wild i mean this is one of the best like uh picks and shovels businesses so if
0:34:59 you’ve never heard picks and shovels it’s a the idea is like anytime there’s a gold rush who makes the
0:35:04 money yeah it’s the the few people who find the gold but the more reliable way to make money is
0:35:09 just to sell picks and shovels to everybody else who’s rushing into the gold rush and scale and surge
0:35:15 were the best picks and shovels businesses maybe besides nvidia because what they were doing is
0:35:20 saying cool everybody everybody wants to compete to become the you you want to make agi you want to
0:35:25 make agi you’re all raising billions and billions of dollars well all of you have this same problem and i will
0:35:30 sell the data labeling service to all of you and this is so funny that now that facebook is buying
0:35:38 scale it’s like there’s all that revenue has to find a new home like this that is crazy that that’s
0:35:44 the best news ever for this guy and there’s another company called handshake so if you go to joinhandshake.com
0:35:51 previously or it still might be this but they were known as a company that helped recent college
0:36:00 graduates get jobs and so basically they’re a job board or job network for uh 22 year olds dude yeah
0:36:09 this was for college kids okay well listen to this they noticed a few months ago uh that surge and uh
0:36:19 scale were using their service to find these these data annotators and so they go ah we’re gonna do that now
0:36:26 and so in a very short amount of time they pivoted and that business that they have is gonna be at a
0:36:30 hundred million dollars a year in the next couple months in a very short amount of time because what
0:36:36 they did was they went and just said oh you are looking for a data uh annotation gig we got you
0:36:39 let’s uh let’s go ahead and get your training and we’re just gonna provide that service to folks
0:36:46 and so handshake is uh building that business now dude that’s so crazy i remember using this because
0:36:51 i was like oh it’s interesting that nobody’s really built the the kind of like one place to
0:36:57 go hire college interns or college like fresh grads and they built this like marketplace where you could
0:37:02 go post on a job board at my local college here and i could get but it was like kind of crappy dude it
0:37:07 was like it wasn’t great it was very like little liquidity in the market but i remember thinking like
0:37:11 this is an interesting idea somebody like it’s a marketplace i like marketplaces somebody should do this
0:37:16 right and um i remember they were kind of like puttering along for a while it seemed like
0:37:21 and uh this is so funny that they pivoted to this and now we’re going to just explode yeah and if you
0:37:28 google uh handshake data annotation you can find the blog posts that they uh that they wrote on them
0:37:32 announcing that they were doing this and so it basically just says that for the past decade
0:37:37 handshake has changed how college students started their careers and then it goes on to basically say
0:37:43 we’re changing the company to like just hire just do this thing and it’s already making and they don’t
0:37:46 actually say this but like it’s now making a hundred million dollars a year
0:37:51 and you know i don’t know how long this stuff will last like you know this might be a business that
0:37:57 i think in like seven to ten years you may not need this anymore like it seems like the way ai is going
0:38:05 you may not need this kind of human in the loop um to label all this data either either they label
0:38:11 they label enough data where then the model learns how to label data you don’t need humans doing this
0:38:17 or they use a thing that doesn’t have the rlhf right like you just do reinforcement learning without
0:38:23 human feedback and i think some people who are kind of pure believers in ai think you won’t need
0:38:29 the human feedback um at a certain point so this might be a get get while the getting’s good type of business
0:38:34 so let me let me tell you a a potential counter to that so tim westergen founded the company called
0:38:45 pandora and i think he started it in 1990 uh uh maybe 98 so it was like pre-iphone um wait when the
0:38:52 iphone come out oh wait oh six yeah so it was like probably like 2002 then and anyway uh he told me this
0:38:56 story because we had him talk at one of our events where he was like i raised seven million dollars
0:39:01 and all seven million dollars of that went to hiring basically ex-musicians or musicians who
0:39:07 were teachers and didn’t make a lot of money and for two years i had about 150 of them listening to music
0:39:13 and i gave them basically a scantron of all types of attributes that a song could potentially
0:39:17 have and so if you’re listening to the beatles you would fill out like okay it sounds like it’s at like
0:39:22 uh 90 beats per minute it sounds like there’s guitar like it’s melodic it’s light-hearted
0:39:28 whatever and after two years of doing this he put all the data basically scantrons into this algorithm
0:39:35 that he built and he started playing like uh uh he told me a beatle song and then and then he clicked
0:39:40 next and it would suggest new music that was similar to the one that the beatle song that he originally
0:39:44 played and he said the bg’s came up and he was like the bg’s and the beatles they’re not similar at
0:39:47 all what the hell and then he kept clicking next he’s like oh wait they have the same melody
0:39:52 or they had they all like have the same like they make me feel similar and he was like it’s working
0:39:57 it’s working and so originally his idea was i’m going to create kiosk at best buy so you could say
0:40:00 i’m interested in beatles but here’s like five other songs that best buy could show you and you
0:40:05 will buy those cds while you’re there and then the iphone came out and he was like oh my god this is
0:40:11 actually the exact way to apply this and so this idea of data data labeling has been around forever and i
0:40:15 didn’t when i was reading scale or about surge i was like oh my god this is exactly what tim was
0:40:20 explaining to me how pandora started and so this has been around for 20 years and so you say i don’t
0:40:25 know if it’s gonna be around or not but i don’t know it’s been around for 20 years so far yeah that’s
0:40:31 true but uh it’s kind of like like self-driving which is coming out now i’ve taken the waymos in san
0:40:38 francisco and robo taxi in austin the tesla the tesla self-driving just launched in austin um i think
0:40:43 like two days ago or something but they took two different approaches so waymo basically has this
0:40:50 really expensive car i forgot the all-in cost but it’s something like 150 to 300 000 is the cost of
0:40:57 the car with all the sensors on it right so they have this really expensive car with lidar and in
0:41:03 addition to the lidar they um hard code and hard map the road so you know for for years they would drive
0:41:09 around and basically like map the road physically and they could only launch in cities where they
0:41:16 had mapped the roads and tesla took this other approach which was basically cameras only no lidar
0:41:21 and we’re not gonna hard map the roads we’re gonna let people drive around and then the car
0:41:25 needs to have a brain that’s smart enough to figure out a road even if it’s never been on that road
0:41:32 before and uh it was this interesting bet because elon was like lidar is not only we’re not doing it
0:41:37 it’s stupid and that’s a dead-end path and everybody else was all in on lidar everyone’s like lidar makes
0:41:44 it safer it’s better you can’t do this without lidar and elon’s point was we humans drive with just
0:41:49 eyes we only have cameras we don’t i don’t have a lidar in my brain and i’m able to drive safely
0:41:57 right and lidar is what lidar is uh uh like you’re shooting some type of signal and it bounces back
0:42:01 you can see through things so i don’t know exactly what’s the difference with lidar radar and all these
0:42:06 different things but like it’s another version of basically scanning that allows you to do what a
0:42:10 camera can’t camera can’t see through an object lidar can it can sense that there’s another another
0:42:16 object behind it so let the classic example is like you know you know maybe you’re gonna do a turn
0:42:20 there’s something obstructing your view but then there’s a little old grandma walking on the crosswalk
0:42:24 but you couldn’t see the grandma until you started the turn visibly but lidar would know that there’s
0:42:30 something there’s an object there that’s that’s moving point is other sensors besides cameras whereas
0:42:34 elon was like no we’re just gonna put like whatever eight cameras on the car and that’s gonna make it work
0:42:39 and for a long time there was a big debate some experts thought elon is wrong some were
0:42:45 just like elon is correct and elon we trust and very smart people were on both sides of the debate
0:42:50 and it was like a very high stakes debate because self-driving cars is one of the most valuable prizes
0:42:55 that there is uh like self-driving cars i don’t think people really realize it i think because it’s
0:43:01 i think because people talked about it for a while they got kind of numb to it this actually happened
0:43:06 with ai too people have been talking about ai maybe machine learning deep learning for a long
0:43:11 time people didn’t really realize when something actually had changed and then suddenly like wait
0:43:15 it’s actually here and the same people who had been tracking it for a long time were almost
0:43:21 late to the party because they mistakenly wrote it off as yeah yeah yeah i’ve heard this before
0:43:24 and so the same things happening with self-driving cars were sort of like a yeah yeah yeah but it’s like
0:43:30 wait a minute it’s actually happening now um it’s because it’s an extreme game changer both like
0:43:33 for society for tesla’s business right like tesla’s business is now going to be
0:43:39 if you own a tesla when you’re instead of 95 of the time your car just sits parked you’re going to
0:43:44 just tap a button say go make me some money please and like a dog it’s going to go fetch it’s just going
0:43:47 to go out there and it’s going to start doing rides for people and it’s going to start earning
0:43:53 you money passively uh all the time dude i think uh i think morgan stanley or chase one of the big
0:43:59 banks like last week was like wrote wrote this report where they had to say what the world’s
0:44:06 going to look like with self-driving and it wasn’t like um it was far more grand they’re like the
0:44:12 economy is going to look radically different because people are going to have so much more time like it
0:44:17 was like at a macro scale it was like oh like the world will change because of this but it was also like
0:44:23 there’s 60 i think thousand car deaths a year like what’s the world gonna look like with with more
0:44:27 people like like it was like a pretty meaningful like it was like a very grand way of thinking about
0:44:31 it wasn’t just like oh wow i could play on my phone while i’m walking or driving to work right it was
0:44:36 like no everything changes i i asked last night i asked grok i said what are the second order effects
0:44:41 of self-driving cars here’s what it said so it’s like cities are going to look completely different
0:44:48 right now parking lots itself occupy 30 of all urban land um in some cities and this is gonna
0:44:51 you’re not going to need parking lots because the cars aren’t going to just sit parked they’re going
0:44:55 to be rolling around you’re going to need way less cars in a city plus they don’t they’re not going to
0:45:00 sit still so you don’t need all of the space just look around a city how much space is dedicated just
0:45:04 to parking like we’re going to look back and that’s going to look sort of like a cavemen style
0:45:08 thing it’s like because in the future those are going to be parks and yeah it’s going to be
0:45:13 it’s going to be smoking in a restaurant yeah exactly and so like the good version of this is
0:45:18 that’s like you know green spaces and affordable housing but like who knows maybe maybe it actually
0:45:23 gets co-opted for some other purpose they all just become like you know drone delivery uh you know
0:45:31 parking units where amazon keeps like 10 million delivery drones um the next one is labor so right now
0:45:36 there’s three and a half million truck drivers alone let alone all of the like uber and taxi drivers
0:45:43 and you’re just not going to need that job period like and i don’t know what happens to that but
0:45:50 there we go uh the next one is you know basically i think the average person spends something like 90
0:45:58 minutes a day just commuting and so you get you know of your wake time let’s say you’re awake for 16 hours
0:46:02 you’re going to add you know what is that so let’s just pretend it’s two out of 16 you’re going to add
0:46:09 like you know 13 more time to everybody’s day where they can now sleep eat work play right you’re
0:46:12 going to sit in a car and you’re not going to have to think about the car you’re just going to be able
0:46:18 to do one of those things which also means the car becomes a new place for entrepreneurs to build
0:46:24 experiences right like today there’s no one out there being like i build car games right there’s
0:46:27 there’s people who build mobile games and xbox games but there’s nobody builds car games well
0:46:30 car games is going to be become a thing because people are going to sit in cars and play video
0:46:34 games people are going to sit in cars and they’re going to relax recover they’re going to work and
0:46:39 so you’re going to build tools that that go in them uh another one is insurance it’s like the whole
0:46:45 insurance system like you know buffets big bets and geico and all those things it’s all based on
0:46:50 human driving and so if humans aren’t driving anymore like both the risk and the the risk reward
0:46:57 ratios change but also who are you insuring you’re insuring the software company versus like individuals
0:47:02 like how’s this all going to work and so that whole and all the whole insurance industry uh changes um
0:47:09 and then basically like car ownership so today owning a car is both like utility but also status symbol
0:47:13 so it’s going to be kind of interesting like you’re a car guy like i wonder when they’re self-driving
0:47:18 cars and basically transportation is just on tap like flowing like water right you just
0:47:22 you push a button and in 30 seconds a little car the car of your liking pulls it’s just going to be
0:47:26 like uh it’s going to be like people who like horses now like it’s going to be a small group of people
0:47:31 who are passionate yeah it’s just like oh you’re passionate about it and you are lucky enough to
0:47:35 have enough room or enough money to like afford it but uh like maybe i would like buy a groupon and
0:47:40 can go experience that once in my life like that’s what it’s going to be yeah or like you know like
0:47:43 horseback riding is like therapeutic people like to like brush a horse or pet a horse it’s
0:47:48 going to be like that with a car it’s going to be like male therapy to just like get in there and
0:47:53 just be behind the wheel have control over something in your life yeah it’s good or like it’s like punk
0:47:58 yeah you could like feel the noise and like smell the gas like it’s going to be um it’s going to be
0:48:01 like a hobby yeah it’s not gonna it’s not going to exist i don’t think i think it’s going to be a lot
0:48:07 longer um but like in 20 it could be 20 years 25 years it’s not going to be in the next five years
0:48:10 but yeah it’s going to be a hobby are you sure about that why do you think it’s not gonna be in
0:48:18 the next five years waybos are now doing 20 of all the rides in san francisco because that was zero
0:48:25 have you like have you ever like a large percentage of people of americans have to
0:48:34 have to drive um let’s say 60 miles one way to to work or they have to like pull stuff or carry stuff
0:48:39 i just don’t think i think that for the urban there’s it’s not um oh um there’s good there’s
0:48:44 going to be like a there’s probably going to be like four sections of users so it’s like young urbanites
0:48:47 and it’s like yeah you guys don’t need a car at all like you’re you’re doing probably already there
0:48:53 with uber yeah and then like the far end of that spectrum is like uh rural people who have to actually
0:48:57 tow stuff you know even though everyone has a truck very few actually use it but there’s like that section
0:49:01 and there’s like the people in between and there’s going to be like a timeline because like if you ever
0:49:07 you can’t really tow anything on an electric car right now uh it’s like it’s they you say you can but
0:49:10 go talk to someone who lives in rural texas when you have to like be driving shit around all day it’s
0:49:14 like impossible so i think that there’s going to be like um it’s going to be like for
0:49:17 um you know what’s that early but when you say it’s not going to be five years are you saying it’s
0:49:22 not going to be meaning self-driving is not going to work it’s not no it’s going to work it’s just not
0:49:27 going to just the user adoption it’s like it’s going to it’s going to take a minute for that for the
0:49:31 whole spectrum of people i think for the urbanites and people like that it’s it’s tomorrow we’re
0:49:36 going to do it i think yeah i mean that guy towing probably still doesn’t he still has an aol
0:49:41 email address right yeah yeah like so i think it’s pretty safe to say that that person’s not
0:49:46 yeah it might be 40 years before that person it’s going to be a long time but then like you
0:49:52 know there’s like a lot of you know people like i’m one of them like i’m romantic about my gas vehicle
0:49:57 i had an electric car and i got rid of it and i’m like in my head i’m like i acknowledge it’s better
0:50:03 i acknowledge that like it’s the future but it sucks i want it’s like our vegan friends it’s like
0:50:09 i get it yeah we shouldn’t kill creatures but it just tastes so good yeah but when you dip them in
0:50:11 ranch it’s fantastic
0:50:19 uh but i’m excited too what’s crazy is in austin i think or sf people are actually paying more for
0:50:25 the waymos yeah yeah it’s not it’s not that much cheaper yet that was but people are people want to
0:50:31 not be around someone and uh that was unexpected so like when i was when i drive my my i have a b&w that
0:50:36 has self-driving stuff i feel way safer on that than if it were just me uh and i think that there’s
0:50:42 like 20 of people and it’s usually men i’ve noticed i’ve noticed women tend to hate everyone i’ve talked
0:50:48 to hate self-driving and every man i’ve talked to likes it and uh like have you have you do you have
0:50:54 any self-driving now um no well i don’t i don’t have it so i haven’t had that that level of uh i
0:50:59 haven’t had a sample size to no i’ve noticed that i’m curious if that’s common or if you’re just like
0:51:04 indexing on three people no it’s well yeah i am but uh yeah it’s like five of my friends like the
0:51:08 husbands use it and the wives are like nope i don’t mess with that i don’t use it right but i feel way
0:51:15 safer with it so you guys know this but i have a company called hampton joinhampton.com it’s a vetted
0:51:20 community for founders and ceos well we have this member named lavon and lavon saw a bunch
0:51:25 of members talking about the same problem within hampton which is that they spent hours manually
0:51:30 moving data into a pdf it’s tedious it’s annoying and it’s a waste of time and so lavon like any great
0:51:36 entrepreneur he built a solution and that solution is called molku molku uses ai to automatically
0:51:41 transfer data from any document into a pdf and so if you need to turn a supplier invoice into a customer
0:51:46 quote or move info from an application into a contract you just put a file into molku and it
0:51:51 auto fills the output pdf in seconds and a little backstory for all the techners out there
0:51:56 lavon built the entire web app without using a line of code he used something called bubble io
0:52:01 they’ve added ai tools that can generate an entire app from one prompt it’s pretty amazing and it means
0:52:07 you can build tools like molku very fast without knowing how to code and so if you’re tired of copying
0:52:15 and pasting between documents or paying people to do that for you check out molku dot ai m-o-l-k-u dot
0:52:21 ai all right back to the pod you want to do one more thing or you have something well i have a
0:52:26 so i tweeted something out that elon replied to over the weekend and how did that make you feel did you
0:52:34 like did you like clap and like scream no so i first of all i played it so cool you wouldn’t if you had
0:52:39 seen me you would have thought i might be under the weather that’s how cool i was playing it
0:52:46 and actually what happened is um i just texted my wife and i was like oh not elon replying to me
0:52:53 and uh and then i just i forgot about it next day i didn’t even think about it i moved on my mom calls
0:53:00 me she’s like sean what did you say i’m like what she’s like sean what did you say elon what did you say
0:53:05 say to elon and i was like what my wife put it up on her instagram story and i was like oh my god
0:53:10 i’m trying to play it cool over here and then you made it like you know lame city so that felt
0:53:14 interesting that i got like multiple phone calls from people and i was like that’s like the only time
0:53:21 your wife has shared something that is when another person replied to you yeah exactly and so i thought
0:53:27 that was interesting how big of the reaction was but the thing i had said was i wrote within a couple
0:53:33 years not using ai while you’re doing your job will be the equivalent of coming to work without a
0:53:37 computer like if someone just turned up and they’re like no i didn’t bring it today you’d be like what
0:53:43 the hell dude like what are you planning to do what is the what’s the plan here that’s how it’s going to be
0:53:49 if you’re if you’re trying to do your job and you’re not using ai constantly to do your job yeah
0:53:56 that was good he was like you know sooner probably and um and so that was like and so i started thinking
0:54:02 about that and i started thinking about um somebody else said this thing they go pretty soon being a
0:54:07 doctor who’s not using ai as a co-pilot like you let’s say you’re radiologist and you’re just trying
0:54:12 to eyeball every every mri and you’re not also running it through ai that’ll be considered
0:54:20 malpractice because like you put the patient at risk by not at least including the second layer
0:54:24 of ai diagnostics and i thought that’s pretty interesting it’s like the flip is going to go
0:54:29 so much from this doesn’t work you know something we don’t do we don’t even use it to if you’re not
0:54:34 using it it’s considered malpractice whether it’s my corporate malpractice or medical malpractice
0:54:39 my doctor friend admitted to me the other day he goes open ai is a better doctor than me
0:54:45 and uh he was like and i knew this was going to be popular because for years he’s been a doctor for
0:54:52 10 years patients come to me and said well google says this or web md says this and he says over the
0:54:58 last six months the only people who have used that reasoning is with open ai and i said well according
0:55:04 to open ai yeah chachapiti said this uh and he goes and they’re right a lot of times the diagnosis
0:55:08 is right dude i got in a fight with a doctor recently about this did i tell you this what
0:55:14 did they say my mom had to have a surgery and but she was on a trip and so i’m like calling in
0:55:19 to the doctor every time the doctor would make her rounds she would like facetime me in
0:55:24 um because she’s on the other side of the country and so the doctor would come in and like doctors
0:55:29 doctors are very hit or miss i love some doctors but a lot of doctors i’m like wow this is an extremely
0:55:36 underwhelming experience and so this one doctor comes in and she’s like yeah your levels were fine
0:55:42 and then i’m like i actually read the test through chat gpt and the levels were like high for this
0:55:45 and she’s like well which level and i’m like i tell her i’m like whatever the thing
0:55:53 whatever the term was and she’s like yeah that was high but you know um it depends on the exact number so i go
0:55:59 what was the number i i would have to check i’m like you’re the doctor so yeah you would have to
0:56:03 check like you know what are you what are you talking about and i’m like you know they basically
0:56:08 chat gpt said if it’s above this then you should consider doing this like additional additional step
0:56:12 like do you believe that that’s like do you agree with that like do you think we should do that
0:56:17 that step she’s like well i mean you’re putting me on the spot here and i don’t have the number
0:56:22 and i’m like and she basically was getting pissed and she’s like well if you’re going to ask me
0:56:26 questions that i’m going to need to go look at the number and i literally was like yeah you are going
0:56:31 to need to go look at the number then what are we doing here i don’t understand like why are you
0:56:39 offended by me asking if you if you have seen the data from the test the test you just said to run
0:56:42 and now you’re coming back to discuss the test results and you don’t want to look at the test
0:56:46 result i don’t really understand what’s happening here well i think what’s going to happen is that
0:56:52 you know how have you noticed so uh have you ever been to a doctor now with an ai scribe so like they
0:56:58 have like okay so for a long time oh i was humiliating her in front of her ai scribe is that what
0:57:02 happened well for a long time they could have been human scribes and so like have you been to
0:57:06 a doctor and seen like a person on an ipad like literally it looks like the doctor’s facetiming
0:57:10 typing notes yeah yeah and that’s like a scribe now they have ai scribes and i think what’s going to
0:57:17 happen is like the i the ai is going to like talk up and be like actually ma’am he’s right uh like
0:57:22 like i think that’s what’s going to happen and if i was an entrepreneurial doctor i would 100
0:57:31 start a new practice all centered around we are ai first so we work with our ai you know and i don’t
0:57:35 think that you we are we aren’t at the point and maybe we’ll never be at the point where you totally
0:57:41 trust it just like you always want the pilot even if autopilot is still a thing right but i would like
0:57:46 go heavy on that uh of leaning into like we have all of the context here uh we have all of your files
0:57:51 uploaded to our chat gpt or whatever it is and have an ai first because i think that a lot of people
0:57:55 like you and me and people listen to this podcast they have a similar sentiment where they’re like
0:58:00 oh no i trust a computer way more than a human being but i would also want the human being to
0:58:05 put their stamp on it it’s also and i want to sue them if i’m wrong because it’s not even that like oh
0:58:10 the ai found the problem and the doctor didn’t sometimes it’s just as simple as like cool the
0:58:15 doctor came in they talked kind of fast they didn’t fully explain i still have more questions
0:58:19 and so you go and you ask chat gpt to explain it to you maybe simpler or you ask some follow-up
0:58:23 questions maybe you’re not as embarrassed to ask questions you feel like you’re not like
0:58:27 you know the person’s not like in a rush to get out of there like a lot of doctors are
0:58:32 and so sometimes it’s not even that the ai doctor is better because it’s smarter sometimes it’s because
0:58:38 it’s infinitely patient or it’s an infinitely better communicator or you know it knows um you know maybe
0:58:41 other things about you or you know you could ask some follow-up questions you don’t feel silly doing
0:58:48 it like those are other components of the doctor experience essentially bedside manner that ai is
0:58:56 better at yeah and uh so i’m like very eager to see how this works i go to um i go to a doctor now a
0:59:02 concierge doctor and it’s not very expensive but the reason i go there is the average at most doctors
0:59:07 they have to see four patients an hour so they’re at 15 minutes right and is that insane i remember i
0:59:13 went to a doctor and like i had an earache i’m like guys my ear is killing me and uh like he spent no
0:59:17 time like trying to like help me like figure this out and i went to a concierge doctor and the average
0:59:22 time is 45 minutes so we can like thoroughly walk through things and so if i can just use all the
0:59:28 information that they have and then go and ping chat gpt to further the conversation it is pretty brilliant
0:59:32 um i’m very eager to see what’s going to happen i like people act like ai is amazing for a bunch of
0:59:37 different stuff and it is but what they’re doing with medicine and drugs and cancer and things like
0:59:41 that is like pretty astounding and i think that’s going to be the major breakthrough in the next couple
0:59:49 years dude the other one lazy ass parenting so your kid’s a little young for this but it is amazing
0:59:56 dude i’ll open up gemini and it has like a camera mode but why do you use different ones you’ve said
1:00:01 claude or sorry you’ve said uh grok and now you’re saying gemini and then we also refer to
1:00:04 you use different ones it’s like you know you go to your different friends for different questions you
1:00:08 only ask me certain questions sometimes you go to jack smith and sometimes you go to your you know
1:00:13 you go to joe you go to different people for different things so like if you want to be if you
1:00:19 want something that’s a little bit more real and objective i think grok is better if you want something
1:00:26 that’s uh either code or creative writing claude is better you know they the catch-all is chat gpt
1:00:29 and then gemini has some like advanced features so this is what i’m saying like gemini has the thing
1:00:35 where you just turn your camera on like facetime and i think it’s for like maybe you’re supposed to like
1:00:38 show it your car and be like how do i repair this and it like tells you what to do
1:00:44 but i just pointed at my kids and i’m like hey we’re playing charades guess what they’re doing and
1:00:49 then my kids will like get on the ground and start like crawling and it’s like hmm seems to be a boy
1:00:55 crawling maybe it’s a snake is are you a worm and it like tries to guess it and they love it dude and so
1:01:01 i’m able to just straight up chill and let them play with ai it is amazing another one i’ll do is i’ll just
1:01:07 be like hey i have a five-year-old and a four-year-old here and they want trivia questions they like animals
1:01:12 they like paw patrol they like um you know they know a little bit about pokemon but nothing too complicated
1:01:16 um ask them a bunch of questions cheer them on when they get it right if they get it wrong tell
1:01:21 them the right answer keep track of the score here’s their names go that’s the prompt and it plays trivia
1:01:25 endlessly with my kids and they love it because it’s all audio which kids can do they don’t have to like
1:01:32 be on screens to be able to do this and uh so i’m just discovering like game after game i can play with
1:01:39 them like i’ll do like basically replaced kuman with hey i need um advanced kindergarten math which like
1:01:43 i don’t even know what that means but it like gets you for whatever reason those three words give me
1:01:49 the sweet spot of like the question that that kind of works for my kids and um it’s like a tutor right
1:01:54 it’s an infinitely patient tutor with them and it’s not perfect in the sense of like you know sometimes it
1:01:59 like starts and stops it’s audio because if you make any sound it thinks you’re talking but damn it’s
1:02:07 pretty it’s pretty good and uh it’s like already usable for us i’ve not seen i didn’t even i didn’t know much
1:02:12 much about gemini gemini live i had no idea what this was is this google this google gemini is like
1:02:17 after summer break you know that one kid who comes back it’s like they’re kind of like hot now but you
1:02:24 still have the old image of them like their reputation is still being like not hot yeah but objectively
1:02:30 they’re hot now yeah nobody’s really on it yet that’s what gemini is gemini was basically out of
1:02:35 the game this google’s ai tools out of the game it’s like i was just chat gpt grok she changed yeah
1:02:41 and then she changed and she like it’s like wait like she got contacts and like she learned how to do
1:02:45 her hair she like walked it watched the makeup tutorial it’s like start rollerblading which was
1:02:51 like surprisingly good cardio and now like suddenly gemini could do things that like the other ones
1:02:56 can’t do but nobody’s on it yet which doesn’t really actually give you any benefits wait so gemini is
1:03:03 hot now gemini’s hot now google’s hot google’s hot yeah i don’t know man that’s hard for me to buy
1:03:09 into but yeah because you’re one of those jocks at school who’s just stuck in seventh grade you forgot
1:03:15 what happened over seventh grade summer all right i’ll use this yeah i’m just stuck on chat gpt
1:03:20 uh and i don’t use gronk because i i’m shocked when people say they use gronk i’m like wait so you go to
1:03:27 like twitter.com to use a rock.com that’s just is that the same thing as that’s the twitter one
1:03:33 yeah because steph smith just got a job at this other one what was that other one called oh no she
1:03:39 got it at grok with a q that’s stupid naming unfortunate unfortunate i’m a shareholder
1:03:47 of grok with a q also but unfortunate naming situation yeah and it’s ai as well they’re making chips
1:03:57 okay well they should change their name because yeah that doesn’t make sense or at least the
1:04:02 pronunciation right like i don’t know like i don’t know how you also used to be grok or something like
1:04:07 that i don’t know what they’re gonna do they could be grok i guess but they yeah grok is so it’s the
1:04:13 same i love how you’re putting the n in there like it’s rob gronkowski wait what did i say you’re
1:04:24 saying grok oh what is it grok grok yeah like the shoes crocs uh yeah like crocs yeah wait and so
1:04:29 what is the twitter thing what do you mean what is it that’s all that’s not oh that’s not grok oh i
1:04:37 i thought it was grok yeah there’s no n any of them that guy’s a football player he’s a retired
1:04:38 football player
1:04:45 dude i went to montana to visit a friend last week and i wore overalls because they’re like the best
1:04:52 i saw a photo of that and i just thought to myself holy shit this guy has gotten this guy’s got no no
1:04:59 limits he’s just wearing overalls as standard standard wear it’s the best clothing because
1:05:03 you could put your phone in your wallet right there on the chest and so you’re like holy kids
1:05:06 and like you just have so many pockets that you have like this right here and i love it and she’s
1:05:11 like oh you got these did you think that we’re all cowboys here and i was like huh but she’s like
1:05:14 you wore your overalls to montana are you trying to make fun of us i was like what are you talking
1:05:25 about i uh i’ve worn these for years like i am not pretending uh no i actually just got it by the
1:05:30 way i was very inspired by your instagram post you wrote something uh the caption of your post you go
1:05:36 from now on i’m only taking photos that if my kid looked at it 20 years from now they’d be like
1:05:43 my dad was pretty cool i thought that was great that’s that’s because you have that photo of your
1:05:48 father right of him when he was in his 30s and you’re uh a baby and he’s like doing something
1:05:53 cool he’s wearing a cool shirt and you’re like oh wow dad was sick or like oh yeah you don’t see them
1:05:57 like that anymore right like they don’t have hair anymore they’re like fat now or whatever and so
1:06:01 you don’t you don’t see that side of them but like it lets you put a little respect on their name when
1:06:04 you see like oh damn yeah young they were actually kind of that’s actually kind of fly what they’re
1:06:11 wearing so i was smoking a cigar and uh uh they were uh which i never do but i like was smoking a cigar
1:06:15 and like they were gonna take a photo with my kid or someone had a camera i was like go take photos
1:06:20 and i put the cigar i used to hide it i would hide it behind my back and i’m like no fuck this she’s
1:06:27 gonna be proud like so i put it back in dude you think smoking is gonna be cool in 30 years
1:06:33 that’s gonna be like you had like a slave with you or something it’s gonna be crazy that you were just
1:06:39 smoking with a baby on your shoulder brother have you seen the photo of the eight guys sitting on the
1:06:45 beam off the like empire state building that’s a great picture i think i think to myself those guys
1:06:52 are crazy they’re dangerous but they’re fucking hard that is awesome and so i will never be on the beam
1:06:56 of the empire state building a thousand feet above the air but at least i could smoke a cigar and look
1:07:03 look remotely cool dude we should print this out i want this framed dude three of them have overalls
1:07:10 very similar to the ones you were wearing yeah what’s up same make and model yeah you just need
1:07:13 this like beret hat you probably have this what am i talking about of course you have this hat
1:07:21 yeah and the courage to eat lunch a thousand feet above uh the ground which is like even back then
1:07:25 the co-workers were like guys what are you doing there’s a cafeteria like right here
1:07:32 like what the fuck all right that’s it that’s about i feel like i can rule the world i know i could be
1:07:50 what i want to all right so when my employees join hampton we have them do a whole bunch of
1:07:55 onboarding stuff but the most important thing that they do is they go through this thing i made called
1:07:58 copy that copy that is a thing that i made that teaches people how to write better and the reason
1:08:04 this is important is because at work or even just in life we communicate mostly via text right now
1:08:10 whether we’re emailing slacking blogging texting whatever most of the ways that we’re communicating
1:08:15 is by the written word and so i made this thing called copy that that’s guaranteed to make you
1:08:20 write better you can check it out copy that dot com i post every single person who leaves a review
1:08:24 whether it’s good or bad i post it on the website and you’re going to see a trend which is that this is a
1:08:28 very very very simple exercise something that’s so simple that they laugh at they think how is this
1:08:32 going to actually impact us and make us write better but i promise you it does you got to try
1:08:39 it at copy that dot com i guarantee it’s going to change the way you write again copy that dot com