AI transcript
0:00:07 What if there was an AI doctor that knew everything about you, your sleep, your history, your
0:00:11 habits, and could give you better advice than any human doctor ever could?
0:00:17 Today, I’m talking with Max Marchionne, founder of Superpower, a company using AI to help
0:00:20 people live longer, healthier lives.
0:00:22 It was a fascinating conversation.
0:00:26 We talked about how AI is changing medicine, how to actually live to 120 or, I don’t know,
0:00:32 maybe 200, and why Max thinks things like supplements are overrated, but he still takes 30 a day.
0:00:38 So if you care about living longer and staying healthy in the age of AI, this is the episode
0:00:39 for you.
0:00:47 Cutting your cell cycle in half sounds pretty impossible, but that’s exactly what Sandler
0:00:48 Training did with HubSpot.
0:00:53 They used Breeze, HubSpot’s AI tools, to tailor every customer interaction without losing their
0:00:54 personal touch.
0:00:56 And the results were pretty incredible.
0:00:59 Click-through rates jumped 25%.
0:01:03 And get this, qualified leads quadrupled.
0:01:04 Who doesn’t want that?
0:01:07 People spent three times longer on their landing pages.
0:01:08 It’s incredible.
0:01:13 Go to HubSpot.com to see how Breeze can help your business grow.
0:01:18 Max, thanks for coming on the show.
0:01:20 Nathan, thank you for having me here.
0:01:21 Yeah.
0:01:24 So this is kind of a, you know, unconventional episode for us.
0:01:28 Part of my motivation for starting this podcast in the first place was to help people thrive
0:01:30 in the age of AI and, you know, we’re going through this huge transitionary period.
0:01:35 Normally, we cover that more in like a business context of how you can use AI and help, you
0:01:37 know, help you in your work or how to get ahead in business.
0:01:40 But also, I feel like part of that is you also have to be healthy to actually live to see all
0:01:41 these things that are happening, right?
0:01:46 And I saw you guys post on Twitter when you first announced superpower and thought it was
0:01:50 fascinating that you guys are like actually using AI to help people know how to live a better
0:01:51 life and how to be healthier.
0:01:52 Is that kind of the general gist of it?
0:01:53 Totally.
0:01:58 So it’s my belief that every single person on earth will have an AI doctor and that doctor
0:02:02 will be so much better than any human doctor was ever able to be, right?
0:02:02 Right.
0:02:04 We won’t just replicate the best of medicine.
0:02:10 We’re actually going to enter into the golden age of medicine because now the millions of data
0:02:12 points about you can be processed.
0:02:16 The millions or thousands of papers about medicine can be processed.
0:02:17 We can discover new things.
0:02:20 We can start to detect things years in advance.
0:02:21 We can start to personalize medicine.
0:02:26 So all of these things, which were lofty goals, are now on the foreseeable horizon.
0:02:27 That’s awesome.
0:02:29 I’ve been interested in longevity for a long time.
0:02:32 Like I watched Andrew Huberman before that, Tim Ferriss.
0:02:35 I’ve met Aubrey de Grey in San Francisco before.
0:02:38 But honestly, I’ve just never really done much to track my own health.
0:02:40 Like besides like, oh, I try to eat healthy.
0:02:41 I take vitamin D.
0:02:43 I go for walks and exercise.
0:02:46 But I’ve never done any of the tracking or the sleep tracking stuff or anything.
0:02:50 Like my understanding is you’ve been tracking yourself since you were like 16 or so.
0:02:51 Is that correct?
0:02:52 Yes.
0:02:56 I went through a long period of misdiagnosis and tested and tracked everything.
0:02:59 It would take me three hours to get to sleep every night.
0:03:00 And I had no idea what was wrong with me.
0:03:04 And as you do, you start trying to learn.
0:03:06 So I remember wearing a big Gen 1 aura ring.
0:03:08 This was when it had just come out.
0:03:10 People used to make fun of me for tracking sleep.
0:03:11 You didn’t do it back then.
0:03:16 And I, every single day, wake up and score my sleep qualitatively.
0:03:16 How did I feel?
0:03:17 Yeah.
0:03:20 Then I score my sleep at the end of my day at the end and say, how did I feel?
0:03:24 And then I look at the quantitative data from the ring and from several other wearables to
0:03:26 see what was showing up in the quantitative data.
0:03:28 And then I said, here were all of the different things I did.
0:03:30 Here’s whether I drunk alcohol or not.
0:03:32 Here is the temperature in the room.
0:03:34 Whether I exercise when I last drank caffeine.
0:03:35 How much caffeine.
0:03:38 And I started to learn what works and what doesn’t.
0:03:42 And you start to get a really good sense of what works and what doesn’t.
0:03:43 What have you learned?
0:03:44 This is partially a selfish episode too.
0:03:46 I’m trying to learn as much to live as long as possible.
0:03:48 So all the obvious things we already know.
0:03:50 Exercise helps a cold room.
0:03:52 Helps a dark and quiet room.
0:03:53 Oh, I’m not going to bore you with that.
0:03:54 I’ll say the interesting things.
0:04:01 So half a glass of red wine, for me, three hours before bed is better than none if we’re
0:04:03 just looking at qualitative and quantitative sleep.
0:04:05 Again, that’s my personal experience.
0:04:06 It might not be true for everyone.
0:04:11 Of the different supplements, Pharmagabba is probably the most effective at increasing HRV.
0:04:14 Very few of the others increase HRV.
0:04:20 Doing either heart rate variability training before bed or meditation before bed has an enormous
0:04:27 impact for me, partially in quieting the mind and partially in lowering resting heart rate.
0:04:29 Lowering resting heart rate matters a lot.
0:04:35 If you want to force your heart rate to lower, do 10 seconds in, 20 seconds hold, 20 seconds out.
0:04:41 Like extreme, but that extreme hold, extreme outs will lower your resting heart rate, I find,
0:04:42 faster than other things.
0:04:44 That’s kind of like what Wim Hof does, right?
0:04:46 But in terms of like holding it in and letting it out?
0:04:48 His is a little bit different.
0:04:48 Is it?
0:04:54 Wims is you breathe vigorously in and out 30 times over, and then you exhale, and then
0:04:55 you hold your breath.
0:04:55 Right.
0:04:58 So that will increase resting heart rate rather than decrease it.
0:05:00 Okay, so it’s the opposite of what you want.
0:05:00 Okay.
0:05:00 Yeah.
0:05:01 Cool.
0:05:03 Yeah, I’ve actually tried to meditate in the morning.
0:05:05 I used to do it at night, and I stopped.
0:05:07 I’m not sure why I stopped.
0:05:11 I remember when I would do it, I would have like the best sleep ever, and I’d just instantly
0:05:14 go to sleep, you know, because otherwise I lay in bed and I’m just thinking about a thousand
0:05:15 different things.
0:05:16 It seemed like it really helped for that.
0:05:17 Yep.
0:05:18 A hundred percent.
0:05:18 Cool.
0:05:22 So my understanding is you had like a cool demo to show me of your company’s superpower.
0:05:23 Like, I’d love to see it.
0:05:24 Yeah, let’s do it.
0:05:26 I’ll share how the membership works today.
0:05:31 The idea is we want to create the one place people come to, to take control of their health.
0:05:34 And there’s three parts to our annual membership today.
0:05:38 Part number one is collecting as much data on someone as possible.
0:05:44 So at the start of the year, we’ll send a nurse to someone’s home, collect over a hundred plus
0:05:47 blood biomarkers, and then allow them to get all of these other tests as well.
0:05:50 Gut microbiome, environmental toxins, cancer screening.
0:05:56 We’ll pull all of that in to a data page where you can visualize all of your past results over
0:05:57 time as well.
0:05:59 We have these beautiful graphical ranges.
0:06:04 We’ve defined not just normal and out of range, but also an optimal range, right?
0:06:07 Which we’ve worked with a PhD out of Oxford to define.
0:06:11 And then we’ll pull in all of someone’s past medical records as well, integrating with the
0:06:11 EMRs.
0:06:17 And this is important because having full context on the person is important in AI-led
0:06:18 paradigm of medicine.
0:06:21 And then finally, we’ll integrate someone’s wearables too.
0:06:25 So that’s part number one, collect as much data as someone else as possible, test the whole
0:06:26 body, and people love that experience.
0:06:29 We’ll visualize and we’ll show biological age as well.
0:06:34 Part number two is now that we know so much about people, how do we actually connect the
0:06:35 dots, right?
0:06:38 How do we tell someone, look, here’s the thousands of data points, but here’s what’s really going
0:06:38 on.
0:06:40 Here are the issues you have today.
0:06:41 Here’s what might come up in the future.
0:06:45 So we build some of this, this big protocol, which is a combination of our medical team
0:06:46 and AI.
0:06:51 And people love this because they get to the end of it and they’re like, oh, whoa, now I
0:06:53 really see what’s going on in my body.
0:06:55 I never had any doctor connect the dots like this before.
0:06:58 And we’ll tell someone, here’s exactly what you should do.
0:07:03 And the final part, what I used to find frustrating about medicine is you’d leave the doctor’s office
0:07:05 and they’d say, good luck, you’re left to your own devices.
0:07:09 What we try to do is after we tell you what to do, we try to actually help you do it.
0:07:11 So any follow-up diagnostics are in one place.
0:07:15 At any given point in time, we’ll show you, here’s the exact next step.
0:07:17 You should never have to think about it.
0:07:18 Here’s the exact next step.
0:07:24 If you need access to a supplement or pharmaceutical, we’ve brought only our favorite, highest quality
0:07:28 products into one place, all 20% cheaper than Amazon or elsewhere.
0:07:35 The idea is if you’re a member, it should be cheaper and easier to access the best care within the ecosystem and hunting outside.
0:07:43 And then the final thing is if you have a health question, you can pull out your phone, you can message your health AI or send a text message to your concierge team.
0:07:43 Oh, that’s awesome.
0:07:45 So this is basically like your own AI doctor.
0:07:50 You give it all the data about yourself and then now it knows all it’s about you versus having to go into a doctor.
0:07:51 So this one here is the AI.
0:07:51 Okay.
0:07:52 Yeah.
0:07:53 And then this one here is a medical team.
0:07:57 There’s this three humans on it, assisted with technology and AI.
0:07:57 Right.
0:07:58 So you have both.
0:07:59 So basically that’s what we do today.
0:08:01 Test the whole body twice a year.
0:08:02 We’re a hundred plus labs.
0:08:08 Connect the dots, tell you what to do and make it really, really easy to take action with a lot of things in one place.
0:08:14 And that membership today we’re doing for $42 a month or $499 a year, which I think is like quite affordable.
0:08:18 So we’re growing quite quickly and having a lot of people wanting to sign up.
0:08:19 Yeah, it’s awesome.
0:08:28 I always thought it was so weird that you go into the doctor and you see them for like 15 minutes, 30 minutes, whatever, and they’re on to the next thing and they barely know who you are or anything about you.
0:08:38 They glance at this thing, you know, showing all your data and it seems like this will make it possible where, you know, the AI will actually understand who you are and what’s going on in your own body, like personalized.
0:08:39 How long have you guys been doing this?
0:08:41 Like what was the inspiration for starting it?
0:08:45 I, as I mentioned, went through a challenging personal health experience.
0:08:46 Yeah.
0:08:48 Chronic migraines, chronic sinusitis.
0:08:50 I had surgery, was taught to medicate for life.
0:08:55 Didn’t really know what was going on until I found a genius doctor who connected the dots.
0:09:02 And it made me realize there’s a big gap between the best of healthcare and what most people have access to.
0:09:09 And I’ve believed for the past decade or so that for as long as that gap exists, someone or some company has to come along and close it.
0:09:21 And I didn’t think that was possible until November, 2020, 2022, when ChatGBT was launched and started to show a path towards what was possible with these AI tools.
0:09:30 And we started the company with the belief that we could take the very best of medicine that today costs hundreds of thousands of dollars and make that accessible for a few hundred dollars.
0:09:32 So that was the initial impetus.
0:09:32 That’s awesome.
0:09:37 I think I have how many people that a lot of times with doctors, they’re not like checking for cancer or things like that ahead of time.
0:09:39 They’re just like telling you like, oh, you’ve got cancer.
0:09:41 They’re not doing a lot of preventive stuff.
0:09:43 And yeah, so it’s just like they’re going to be a game changer.
0:09:45 Yep, 100%.
0:09:48 How can people listening to this, how can they actually like live a longer life?
0:09:53 Just use superpower or is there any other like practical advice you can give people that they could just get started with today?
0:09:57 Oh man, if you want to live a longer life, we’re going to need biotech.
0:10:00 And biotech might be expensive.
0:10:03 It’s the unfortunate reality of where the future is going.
0:10:07 But biotech will define the future more than healthy eating.
0:10:10 And access to biotech might be unevenly distributed.
0:10:14 And insofar as AI can make us more productive, that’s interesting.
0:10:21 I think today, these foundational models, if it has full context, they’re very good at connecting the dots.
0:10:23 They’re very good at working out what’s going on.
0:10:26 There are ways to prompt it to make it more effective.
0:10:28 I find the reasoning models like O3 are the best.
0:10:33 I’ll prompt it with something like, you’re an elite integrative medicine doctor.
0:10:34 You’re the best in the world.
0:10:36 You know everything about medicine.
0:10:37 You know everything about me.
0:10:39 You know everything at the frontier.
0:10:42 You also understand traditional Chinese medicine and Ayurvedic medicine.
0:10:44 You’ve seen everything.
0:10:46 You think deeply about the root cause.
0:10:48 And my doctor, here’s what’s going on for me.
0:10:49 Explain everything.
0:10:50 I’ll give it everything.
0:10:53 My upbringing, my life, what I eat, what I do.
0:10:55 And if you give it all of that, it’s really damn good.
0:10:57 So that’s just ChatGPT.
0:11:01 Now, there’s a lot of other things you can do with prompting that make it far better.
0:11:04 We try to do a lot of that with the superpower AI.
0:11:06 But you can do a lot now with ChatGPT.
0:11:07 They’re pretty impressive.
0:11:08 Yeah, I’ve been surprised.
0:11:12 I had a hand injury and it was like lingering for like three or four months.
0:11:15 And I started chatting with ChatGPT about it.
0:11:17 And like, it told me exactly what was going on.
0:11:19 Now, I went to a doctor and they told me basically the same thing.
0:11:22 And so I’m like, oh, in theory, I could have just used ChatGPT.
0:11:24 I didn’t necessarily have to go to a doctor.
0:11:24 Oh, yeah.
0:11:27 These AIs are better than the doctors often now.
0:11:34 There was this paper that came out that showed doctor accuracy, doctor plus AI accuracy, and then just AI accuracy.
0:11:38 The just AI was better than the doctor plus the AI.
0:11:40 It was more accurate.
0:11:47 And that’s the model today with limited context, without being specialized or set up for medicine-specific use cases.
0:11:51 Where we’re going is models that are more specialized with more context.
0:11:51 Yeah.
0:11:56 We’re still holding on to humans as the practitioners of the art of medicine.
0:12:02 And I think anyone who does that is still reasoning from the past and reasoning from the current point in time we’re at.
0:12:06 Whereas I think what we need to consider is the rate of change and the directionality of change.
0:12:11 And if we think models today are impressive, well, in two years’ time, we’re going to be blown away.
0:12:12 Right.
0:12:12 Yeah.
0:12:18 I mean, if you think about, you know, doctors, they get paid so much because they go to school for a really long time and they remember lots of stuff.
0:12:24 And, you know, they read so many different books and they probably retain, like, I don’t know, 5% of the knowledge or something like that that’s actually out there.
0:12:27 With AI, obviously, they can, like, know every single paper that’s out there.
0:12:29 And then, like you said, even other stuff, you know, Chinese medicine, whatever.
0:12:34 You can look at the collective knowledge of humanity, you know, with health and actually apply that.
0:12:35 It’s a fascinating concept.
0:12:36 Yeah.
0:12:40 I think that’s such a good point, which is that a large part of medical school is remembering knowledge.
0:12:41 Right.
0:12:46 And one of the magical things about technology is we don’t have to remember knowledge anymore.
0:12:48 So, yeah, look, I tend to agree.
0:12:50 And we already implicitly know this is true.
0:12:53 There are people who hear this and be like, what do you mean he’s talking?
0:12:55 I’m like, we already implicitly know this is true.
0:12:58 When you have a health question, what do you do?
0:13:00 You go to Google or ChatGPT before the doctor.
0:13:01 Typically what people do.
0:13:04 Then you go to the doctor and they might say some things.
0:13:08 And then you go back to Google and ChatGPT after the doctor.
0:13:09 And you know what?
0:13:12 During the consult, the doctor’s using Google and ChatGPT as well.
0:13:17 We already implicitly know that people go to the algorithm a lot of the time before they go to the doctor.
0:13:18 Right.
0:13:21 It is like people are still going to want to see a doctor in a lot of cases, right?
0:13:24 They want to talk to a person and this will probably change over time.
0:13:27 I think as of right now, people want to talk to a doctor and be reassured, things like this.
0:13:30 And I guess also if you get like a bad diagnosis or something too, right?
0:13:34 Like that’s probably where you would want a human telling you, I guess, versus an AI.
0:13:36 But in the future, that will probably change.
0:13:37 Maybe in the future, it’s entirely AI.
0:13:40 You know, maybe it’s all superpower or other companies like superpower, right?
0:13:42 Today, 100%.
0:13:47 People, trust, humans, the opinion of a doctor validates or invalidates an AI.
0:13:50 It makes you more likely to follow a recommendation.
0:13:52 That’s all going to change.
0:13:53 It’s inevitable.
0:13:55 I’ll give you maybe a hypothetical.
0:13:57 Let’s say you’re boarding an airplane.
0:13:59 You’re going to do a 15-hour trip.
0:14:04 And over the loudspeaker, you hear, the autopilot and the technology is not working this flight.
0:14:06 The pilot’s just going to fly it.
0:14:09 You’re going to be like, get me out of here.
0:14:10 Where’s the parachute?
0:14:15 We’re sorry to tell you, but the AI and the technology is broken.
0:14:16 The pilot is going to be flying the rest.
0:14:19 You’re like, no, no, this is like, are you fearing for your life?
0:14:21 Especially if you’re going to turbulence or something, right?
0:14:22 You’d be like freaking out.
0:14:24 That’s where we’re going to get to, right?
0:14:24 Yeah.
0:14:30 And if you said to someone in 1940 that the AI is going to fly the plane, they would have been like,
0:14:31 no way, that’s so unsafe.
0:14:32 I need the human there.
0:14:34 Well, now it’s the opposite.
0:14:34 Yeah.
0:14:37 I think we’re going to see that now we need the AI there.
0:14:38 We’re going to see the same in healthcare.
0:14:40 Again, we’ll like deny it and then it will happen.
0:14:41 And yeah.
0:14:42 Yeah.
0:14:42 Yeah.
0:14:45 It feels like younger people embrace it, you know, faster.
0:14:49 I talked to people in my family recently who didn’t even know that AI helps fly the planes.
0:14:53 I think there’s actually a lot of people who don’t or aren’t even aware of that, actually.
0:14:54 Totally.
0:14:55 There’s a reason why there’s still a pilot in the cockpit.
0:14:56 Right.
0:14:58 The pilot maybe does a couple of things.
0:15:01 But if you chat with a commercial airline pilot, ask them about how much they actually do.
0:15:02 Right.
0:15:02 It’s not much.
0:15:03 Yeah.
0:15:04 I live here in Japan.
0:15:04 It’s even with the trains.
0:15:05 You notice that too.
0:15:06 I’m pretty sure most of it’s automated.
0:15:09 And you see the guy up there and he’s like, you’re just really casual.
0:15:12 He’s like sipping a coffee, not really paying much attention to anything.
0:15:15 He kind of makes sure there’s nothing on the track or like, you know, make sure people are
0:15:16 okay and stuff.
0:15:19 But it seems like it’s all just kind of ran by computer systems.
0:15:25 Hey, we’ll be right back to the show.
0:15:28 But first, I’m going to tell you about another podcast I know you’re going to love.
0:15:30 It’s called Marketing Against the Grain.
0:15:33 It’s hosted by Kip Bodner and Kieran Flanagan.
0:15:38 And it’s brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business
0:15:38 professionals.
0:15:43 If you want to know what’s happening now in marketing, especially how to use AI marketing,
0:15:44 this is the podcast for you.
0:15:50 Kip and Kieran share their marketing expertise, unfiltered in the details, the truth, and like
0:15:51 nobody else will tell it to you.
0:15:58 They recently had a great episode called Using ChatTBT 03 to Plan Our 2025 Marketing Campaign.
0:16:05 It was full of like actual insights as well as just things I had not thought of about how
0:16:06 to apply AI to marketing.
0:16:08 I highly suggest you check it out.
0:16:11 Listen to Marketing Against the Grain wherever you get your podcasts.
0:16:15 Cool.
0:16:18 So I heard you had some controversial takes on supplements.
0:16:20 You know, I take a few supplements.
0:16:22 My co-host, Matt Wolfe, he’s super into supplements.
0:16:24 I think he takes like, I don’t know, 30 or so.
0:16:27 But yeah, I heard you had some controversial takes on supplements.
0:16:29 So like, should I be taking supplements?
0:16:29 Do they matter?
0:16:32 Or are they like, you know, are they BS or what?
0:16:35 I think supplements are overrated and many are likely BS.
0:16:36 Okay.
0:16:39 And at the same time, I take 30 to 50 a day.
0:16:41 In case, okay.
0:16:42 Kind of in case, I don’t know.
0:16:44 I think I’m like updating my views on it.
0:16:45 So there’s a few things.
0:16:53 One is that no amount of supplementation is going to solve for foundational problems that
0:16:56 should be addressed by attacking the root cause.
0:17:01 And no amount of supplementation is going to reliably guarantee you live past 100.
0:17:01 Right.
0:17:02 Right.
0:17:06 So right away, we know that even if supplements are marginally useful, they’re not that game
0:17:06 changing.
0:17:11 So we can already say, if they’re not that game changing, then I shouldn’t obsess about
0:17:11 them too much.
0:17:17 The next thing I’d say is that a lot of supplements are fake or dosed incorrectly or have other
0:17:21 sorts of additives or use the wrong part of the compound.
0:17:25 I was in the UAE last week and I was going to buy some vitamin D.
0:17:27 There are all these things in the pharmacy.
0:17:28 And you see this in the US as well.
0:17:31 There are all of these vitamin D in the pharmacy with like fancy branding.
0:17:33 I’m like, okay, but let’s actually look into it.
0:17:33 I look into it.
0:17:35 It’s like 300 I use.
0:17:38 And I’m like, well, no, I need like at least probably 5,000 for what I’m going for.
0:17:41 So 300, 5,000, that dosing doesn’t seem right.
0:17:46 The actual supplement itself has preservatives and colors and fake sugar and other shit in
0:17:46 it.
0:17:47 I’m like, well, I don’t want that.
0:17:49 Is that because it’s cheaper to make or something like that?
0:17:49 Is that why they do that?
0:17:50 I don’t know.
0:17:54 And then it didn’t have vitamin K, which is necessary for the absorption of vitamin D.
0:17:58 So it’s like, great, the marketing’s good, but the vitamin D is a negligible amount.
0:18:03 I’m adding all of this other shit to my body and there’s no vitamin K, which is a co-factor
0:18:04 necessary for the absorption of vitamin D.
0:18:11 Now take a correctly dosed vitamin D, really good source, purely encapsulated, no additives,
0:18:14 3,000 I use, maybe 5,000 I use.
0:18:16 They add vitamin K2.
0:18:20 Ideally, they add vitamin K2 as both forms, MK4 and MK7.
0:18:22 And maybe they add vitamin K1 as well.
0:18:26 All of those things now make a form of, that’s just vitamin D.
0:18:29 You can look across every other supplement and you have a similar thing.
0:18:32 So the second thing I’d say is like, not all supplements are created equal and there’s
0:18:33 a lot of junk out there.
0:18:37 And then the third thing I’d say, which is more speculative, and I don’t believe this
0:18:41 enough yet to stop taking supplements, but there might be something here, is that supplements
0:18:42 actually drain energy.
0:18:45 Our bodies are not used to processing the dry powder.
0:18:50 A lot of negative charge goes into actually creating the supplements in a big manufacturing.
0:18:50 lab.
0:18:55 And as a result, through mechanisms we don’t quite understand, supplements drain your body
0:18:56 of energy.
0:18:59 And again, I don’t believe that enough to have stopped taking them.
0:19:00 I took 30 last night.
0:19:02 But I think it’s interesting.
0:19:02 Right.
0:19:05 And some people hear this stuff and they’re like, no, that’s bullsh**.
0:19:09 Typically, when I hear someone say that’s bullsh**, my response is, this is interesting.
0:19:13 We don’t have evidence yet, but it might be worth pursuing and studying.
0:19:15 Because before there’s evidence, there’s always no evidence.
0:19:16 Yeah, totally.
0:19:16 Right?
0:19:17 It’s just a hypothesis.
0:19:22 Probably for the last two years, in terms of longevity, everyone thinks of Brian Johnson
0:19:22 now.
0:19:26 What do you think of Brian and what he’s doing and trying to live forever and all the crazy
0:19:27 stuff he’s doing on his body?
0:19:29 Look, I have a lot of respects for Brian.
0:19:30 Yeah.
0:19:32 I think that he’s a very good thinker.
0:19:35 I think that he’s creating a religion, which is non-trivial.
0:19:38 I think he cares about what he’s creating as a religion.
0:19:45 There are a set of very strong fundamental beliefs underlying it, which is that we need to follow
0:19:48 the algorithm because there’ll come a point in time where the algorithm knows more than
0:19:53 us, where the only thing we know is that at this very moment, I don’t want to die and
0:19:57 therefore don’t die is the most played game in a moniker or the religion.
0:19:57 Right.
0:19:58 So I really like that.
0:20:01 I think at the same time, he’s popularizing several health interventions.
0:20:03 I don’t think he’s at the frontier.
0:20:07 I see things he does and I’ll have doctor friends say, this is dumb.
0:20:08 He’s going to change this.
0:20:10 And then like three months later, he like changes it.
0:20:10 That’s fine.
0:20:11 He’s learning.
0:20:14 You got to remember, he’s been playing this game for five years.
0:20:17 There are doctors out there who have been playing this game of human optimization for
0:20:20 like 30 years, 40 years, 50 years.
0:20:24 So I still think there’s a lot he doesn’t know and he’s discovering it and sharing everything
0:20:24 he’s learning on the way.
0:20:26 So a lot of respect for Brian.
0:20:26 Right.
0:20:28 Yeah, I think that’s part that’s interesting.
0:20:32 And, you know, what I found fascinating in like a few interviews with him, he talked about
0:20:35 one of the reasons for him doing it was that, you know, it’s kind of like the whole thing
0:20:39 I was saying earlier, like we’re heading into the age of AI, like some of this technology
0:20:42 may unlock us to live an extra hundred years in the future.
0:20:47 And so, hey, try to make sure you can make it to that point so you can actually extend
0:20:47 your life.
0:20:49 I think that’s an interesting point.
0:20:49 Yeah.
0:20:52 And one thing I was thinking about, people always talk about their sleep, like monitoring
0:20:53 their sleep.
0:20:54 And I think you mentioned you used to do that.
0:20:56 Do you recommend monitoring your sleep?
0:20:59 Because that’s something I’ve always thought I probably should be doing that.
0:21:01 But I’m worried that I’m going to get super obsessed with it.
0:21:04 And maybe that’ll make me sleep, you know, less actually, because I’m worried about it.
0:21:07 I think most people should try and see whether they like it.
0:21:11 I think most people should do it for at least a couple of months because they’ll learn,
0:21:16 they’ll start to be able to develop a better interoception such that when they remove the ring
0:21:20 or the band, they still have a sense of what’s going on with their sleep.
0:21:25 I do think that it can end up making you more anxious about sleep and that will make your
0:21:26 sleep worse.
0:21:29 And that’s part of why I don’t open my Aura Ring app every morning now.
0:21:34 But I also think that even if you don’t want to look at the data, it could be worth collecting
0:21:37 the data because we’re into a world where we never have to look at the data.
0:21:39 The AI will just tell us what to do.
0:21:43 And in that world, I want to have a lot of data on myself to support the AI.
0:21:45 So that’s kind of how I think about the sleep question.
0:21:47 With Superpower, do you have something like that for now?
0:21:50 Do you like submit sleep data or is that something you guys have thought of doing?
0:21:53 Yeah, we integrate with Aura, several other wearables.
0:21:54 Yeah.
0:21:56 And that allows us to collect sleep data.
0:21:57 Awesome.
0:22:01 So you mentioned, you know, you already kind of shared like one controversial health belief
0:22:03 about the thing with supplements, they might drain energy.
0:22:06 Is that the most controversial health belief that you have?
0:22:08 Or is there anything else that’s even more controversial?
0:22:13 There are a lot of things that I think have a 5% probability, which most people call like
0:22:14 bulls**t.
0:22:16 And there are some that I think are higher probability.
0:22:17 Okay.
0:22:20 Now, my problem with all the 5% probability ones is I’ll say them and people say, this is
0:22:21 what he believes.
0:22:22 I’m like, no, no, no.
0:22:22 I believe the opposite.
0:22:24 But I think there’s a chance of this thing.
0:22:25 People have a hard time.
0:22:29 They’re like, have really binary mindsets of like, no, it’s got to be 100% true.
0:22:31 Or he’s saying it’s 100% false.
0:22:33 And people have a hard time in between.
0:22:33 Yeah.
0:22:33 Totally.
0:22:37 I guess like a classic example of this is vaccines.
0:22:43 I do think there’s somewhere between a 5% and probably 15% chance the vaccines are linked
0:22:45 to autoimmunity and maybe even autism.
0:22:46 There’s a low chance.
0:22:47 There’s a low but real chance.
0:22:51 I will say something like that and people will be like, he’s an anti-vax.
0:22:52 I’m like, no, I said there’s a low chance.
0:22:57 And therefore, we have to explore it and consider it versus just criticize and turn the blind
0:23:00 eye and hate and label, right?
0:23:00 Yeah.
0:23:03 Hating and labeling sounds a lot like propaganda to me.
0:23:06 And there are certainly incentives to obstruction industry that way.
0:23:12 One belief that I am higher probability on is one of our advisors and doctors, she runs
0:23:14 one of the leading cancer clinics around the world.
0:23:18 And I asked her, what is the number one thing you can do to prevent cancer?
0:23:22 And she says, PMA, positive mental attitude.
0:23:23 It’s the number one thing.
0:23:24 And I actually agree with that.
0:23:30 I genuinely believe that how we think, the beliefs we have, the self-talk, the way we relate
0:23:35 to ourselves, the amount of gratitude we have, impacts all health outcomes, impacts cancer,
0:23:39 neurodegeneration, autoimmunity, pain, and other things in our body.
0:23:44 And I think that the relationship between the brain and thoughts and biology is not well
0:23:44 understood.
0:23:47 And we’ll increasingly get to a world where it is well understood.
0:23:50 Do you have any theories on if that’s true?
0:23:51 Like why it’s true?
0:23:55 Like why would positive thinking and things like that have a positive impact on your health?
0:23:57 Besides maybe like it lowers your stress or there’s something else more extreme?
0:24:01 Like, look, a lot of our biology is modified by our brain.
0:24:02 We know that.
0:24:06 Like we can, through our brain, choose to increase or decrease our heart rate.
0:24:07 Right.
0:24:07 Right.
0:24:09 We can choose to do a lot of things.
0:24:10 We can tense our muscles.
0:24:13 We can do a lot of things via our brain.
0:24:19 And we understand how thinking certain things changes biology and changing a biology changes.
0:24:20 We understand that mapping.
0:24:24 Now, what we don’t understand is the mapping when it gets to things like cancer.
0:24:29 But I think if the mapping exists for very simple things, I think that it’s likely and
0:24:32 completely possible that it exists for more complex things as well.
0:24:36 The exact mechanism I don’t understand, I don’t know if anyone understands, which is
0:24:38 why people still call this woo-woo and pseudoscience.
0:24:43 But throughout history, many of the things we now call science, we used to call pseudoscience.
0:24:45 So again, I think the right approach is curiosity.
0:24:50 And that’s the first step in the scientific method, curiosity and hypothesis, rather than just
0:24:50 being closed-minded.
0:24:51 Yeah, I agree.
0:24:54 In some ways, you know, science has become almost like a cult.
0:24:55 You know, everyone has to agree.
0:24:56 There’s, you know, what’s the paper?
0:25:00 And if it’s not a paper that their peers have reviewed, you can’t even discuss it.
0:25:02 And it’s like, no, you can still discuss it.
0:25:06 Like, it doesn’t mean it’s 100% true, but it doesn’t mean you should just like completely
0:25:08 shut the door and say it’s impossible.
0:25:09 That’s always kind of driven me crazy.
0:25:10 Okay.
0:25:13 So maybe I got a fun question to end things.
0:25:16 You know, imagine you have a time machine, you know, and you step out.
0:25:17 It’s 2050.
0:25:18 What’s different?
0:25:19 What’s changed?
0:25:21 You know, not just health, but maybe also talk about health.
0:25:24 Gosh, no one knows.
0:25:30 More than ever, no one knows because the rate of change is completely unprecedented.
0:25:35 I think that it’s going to be way different to what people think.
0:25:39 I suspect that we likely won’t think about what we do in our actions.
0:25:43 I think the AI will just tell us and we will blindly follow the AI.
0:25:49 I think that just about everything we today call work will no longer exist as jobs.
0:25:52 So you’re most thinking like, I mean, we almost become the robots.
0:25:53 Like the AI is powering us.
0:25:54 Well, potentially.
0:25:55 Yeah.
0:26:00 I think that in a world where the AI knows far, far, far more than us, we don’t have a choice
0:26:01 but to follow the algorithm.
0:26:05 So there’s totally a world where the AI determines our behaviors.
0:26:10 There’s also a world where the AI has merged with us and the AI is part of our thoughts.
0:26:15 And we are cyborgs and I think that cyborgs will be here far closer than we think.
0:26:21 Particularly because if someone who’s a cyborg has a survival advantage, then other humans
0:26:24 will have to become cyborgs because we’re reasonably Darwinistic creatures.
0:26:26 We care about survival advantages.
0:26:29 And as a result, I think cyborgs are here sooner than people think.
0:26:33 Like by 2050, are we like merging with AI by then?
0:26:35 Yeah, I think so.
0:26:37 Yeah, if I was doing an overrun.
0:26:37 Yeah, I think so.
0:26:40 Somebody’s listening right now like, what the hell are they talking about?
0:26:42 Yeah, I know.
0:26:42 Cool.
0:26:43 Oh, yeah.
0:26:44 One last question.
0:26:46 I always like to ask people, you know, my son is 11.
0:26:50 And, you know, now with AI, I’m always trying to think like, what should I be teaching him,
0:26:52 you know, to make sure he’s successful in the future?
0:26:54 If you had a child, what would you be teaching them right now?
0:26:55 Would you be teaching them to code?
0:26:58 Or would you, you know, something completely different?
0:27:01 No, no, no skills, no skills, no jobs, none of it’s relevant.
0:27:09 I would be teaching them people and relationships and how the world works and leverage and company
0:27:10 building.
0:27:13 Maybe I’d get them to like play around with AI and understanding it.
0:27:15 But like the AI is going to do the coding.
0:27:17 The AI is going to do the prompting.
0:27:19 I would focus very much on people.
0:27:23 I think that scarce resources will not be, can you code?
0:27:26 It’ll be, can you unlock a door that is gated by a person?
0:27:27 Right.
0:27:31 So I’d focus more on everything that’s innately human, rather than everything that is some
0:27:35 sort of skill that is constructed by the current nature of our world.
0:27:37 That makes a lot of sense.
0:27:37 Yeah.
0:27:41 So like teaching him more about culture, comedy, just all kinds of different things that would
0:27:43 be useful in personal relations, probably.
0:27:51 Psychology, biology, getting them to meet people, host dinners, sales, persuasion.
0:27:52 Interesting.
0:27:56 Like, I think the importance of networks likely become far greater.
0:27:59 This whole idea of like, it’s not what you know, it’s who you know.
0:28:04 I think that that is more true, likely in the next five years than it has been for the
0:28:06 past couple of decades.
0:28:06 I agree.
0:28:09 You know, I’ve had this conversation with my friend, Greg Eisenberg.
0:28:11 You know, it’s part of the reason we both have been doing more content.
0:28:13 We totally agree with it.
0:28:17 Like in the future, your networks and who you know is going to matter a whole lot, especially
0:28:19 when anyone can press a button and copy a product.
0:28:20 It’s going to matter a lot.
0:28:21 I think so.
0:28:26 But I also wonder at the same time, whether we’re going to just see AIs chatting with AIs.
0:28:32 For example, right now, if someone messages me on LinkedIn, my EA is responding most of
0:28:33 the time rather than me.
0:28:37 Now, in a year, that’s probably going to be my AI responding.
0:28:39 Is this the first time we’ve actually talked?
0:28:42 No.
0:28:45 That’d be hilarious.
0:28:46 I still got Twitter.
0:28:46 Twitter’s less noisy.
0:28:49 LinkedIn, I get like hundreds of messages a week.
0:28:51 Twitter’s still quite high signal.
0:28:52 So I’m on Twitter.
0:28:53 I’m using WhatsApp.
0:28:55 Emails are a mix.
0:28:55 Half, half.
0:29:00 And again, though, we’ll get to a world where the AI drafts our emails, where the AI liaises
0:29:01 with the other AI.
0:29:03 It’s just like AIs all the way down.
0:29:06 I think that the problem with the world today is we treat kids like they’re kids.
0:29:08 And we never used to do that.
0:29:11 Alexander the Great was 21 when he ran the army.
0:29:12 Napoleon Bonaparte was 22.
0:29:14 Julius Caesar was 23.
0:29:16 Joan of Arc was like 20.
0:29:19 I might be getting the ages off by a couple of years, but roughly that.
0:29:22 And that’s because when they were kids, they were not treated like kids.
0:29:27 And I think that gaming when we’re younger allows us to do something like this.
0:29:29 And then you can start creating your own businesses.
0:29:32 I kind of reflect back on myself when I was young.
0:29:37 I was like, I actually think I was better as a business person on Minecraft than I was
0:29:42 for the next five to 10 years in real life because I had zero, zero fear and no one told
0:29:43 me whether I could or couldn’t do something.
0:29:44 Yeah, totally.
0:29:48 There were so many strategies that worked to make money on Minecraft that honestly would
0:29:51 have worked really, really damn well in the real world.
0:29:51 Right.
0:29:53 I just didn’t realize I could do it in the real world.
0:29:54 And I think about that often.
0:29:55 Right.
0:29:56 Dude, this has been awesome, Max.
0:29:58 It’s been great getting to know you.
0:29:58 Yeah.
0:29:59 Likewise, Nathan.
0:30:01 Yeah, it’d be awesome to have you on again sometime in the future.
0:30:02 Thanks, Max.
0:30:02 Great.
0:30:03 Thanks, Nathan.
0:00:11 habits, and could give you better advice than any human doctor ever could?
0:00:17 Today, I’m talking with Max Marchionne, founder of Superpower, a company using AI to help
0:00:20 people live longer, healthier lives.
0:00:22 It was a fascinating conversation.
0:00:26 We talked about how AI is changing medicine, how to actually live to 120 or, I don’t know,
0:00:32 maybe 200, and why Max thinks things like supplements are overrated, but he still takes 30 a day.
0:00:38 So if you care about living longer and staying healthy in the age of AI, this is the episode
0:00:39 for you.
0:00:47 Cutting your cell cycle in half sounds pretty impossible, but that’s exactly what Sandler
0:00:48 Training did with HubSpot.
0:00:53 They used Breeze, HubSpot’s AI tools, to tailor every customer interaction without losing their
0:00:54 personal touch.
0:00:56 And the results were pretty incredible.
0:00:59 Click-through rates jumped 25%.
0:01:03 And get this, qualified leads quadrupled.
0:01:04 Who doesn’t want that?
0:01:07 People spent three times longer on their landing pages.
0:01:08 It’s incredible.
0:01:13 Go to HubSpot.com to see how Breeze can help your business grow.
0:01:18 Max, thanks for coming on the show.
0:01:20 Nathan, thank you for having me here.
0:01:21 Yeah.
0:01:24 So this is kind of a, you know, unconventional episode for us.
0:01:28 Part of my motivation for starting this podcast in the first place was to help people thrive
0:01:30 in the age of AI and, you know, we’re going through this huge transitionary period.
0:01:35 Normally, we cover that more in like a business context of how you can use AI and help, you
0:01:37 know, help you in your work or how to get ahead in business.
0:01:40 But also, I feel like part of that is you also have to be healthy to actually live to see all
0:01:41 these things that are happening, right?
0:01:46 And I saw you guys post on Twitter when you first announced superpower and thought it was
0:01:50 fascinating that you guys are like actually using AI to help people know how to live a better
0:01:51 life and how to be healthier.
0:01:52 Is that kind of the general gist of it?
0:01:53 Totally.
0:01:58 So it’s my belief that every single person on earth will have an AI doctor and that doctor
0:02:02 will be so much better than any human doctor was ever able to be, right?
0:02:02 Right.
0:02:04 We won’t just replicate the best of medicine.
0:02:10 We’re actually going to enter into the golden age of medicine because now the millions of data
0:02:12 points about you can be processed.
0:02:16 The millions or thousands of papers about medicine can be processed.
0:02:17 We can discover new things.
0:02:20 We can start to detect things years in advance.
0:02:21 We can start to personalize medicine.
0:02:26 So all of these things, which were lofty goals, are now on the foreseeable horizon.
0:02:27 That’s awesome.
0:02:29 I’ve been interested in longevity for a long time.
0:02:32 Like I watched Andrew Huberman before that, Tim Ferriss.
0:02:35 I’ve met Aubrey de Grey in San Francisco before.
0:02:38 But honestly, I’ve just never really done much to track my own health.
0:02:40 Like besides like, oh, I try to eat healthy.
0:02:41 I take vitamin D.
0:02:43 I go for walks and exercise.
0:02:46 But I’ve never done any of the tracking or the sleep tracking stuff or anything.
0:02:50 Like my understanding is you’ve been tracking yourself since you were like 16 or so.
0:02:51 Is that correct?
0:02:52 Yes.
0:02:56 I went through a long period of misdiagnosis and tested and tracked everything.
0:02:59 It would take me three hours to get to sleep every night.
0:03:00 And I had no idea what was wrong with me.
0:03:04 And as you do, you start trying to learn.
0:03:06 So I remember wearing a big Gen 1 aura ring.
0:03:08 This was when it had just come out.
0:03:10 People used to make fun of me for tracking sleep.
0:03:11 You didn’t do it back then.
0:03:16 And I, every single day, wake up and score my sleep qualitatively.
0:03:16 How did I feel?
0:03:17 Yeah.
0:03:20 Then I score my sleep at the end of my day at the end and say, how did I feel?
0:03:24 And then I look at the quantitative data from the ring and from several other wearables to
0:03:26 see what was showing up in the quantitative data.
0:03:28 And then I said, here were all of the different things I did.
0:03:30 Here’s whether I drunk alcohol or not.
0:03:32 Here is the temperature in the room.
0:03:34 Whether I exercise when I last drank caffeine.
0:03:35 How much caffeine.
0:03:38 And I started to learn what works and what doesn’t.
0:03:42 And you start to get a really good sense of what works and what doesn’t.
0:03:43 What have you learned?
0:03:44 This is partially a selfish episode too.
0:03:46 I’m trying to learn as much to live as long as possible.
0:03:48 So all the obvious things we already know.
0:03:50 Exercise helps a cold room.
0:03:52 Helps a dark and quiet room.
0:03:53 Oh, I’m not going to bore you with that.
0:03:54 I’ll say the interesting things.
0:04:01 So half a glass of red wine, for me, three hours before bed is better than none if we’re
0:04:03 just looking at qualitative and quantitative sleep.
0:04:05 Again, that’s my personal experience.
0:04:06 It might not be true for everyone.
0:04:11 Of the different supplements, Pharmagabba is probably the most effective at increasing HRV.
0:04:14 Very few of the others increase HRV.
0:04:20 Doing either heart rate variability training before bed or meditation before bed has an enormous
0:04:27 impact for me, partially in quieting the mind and partially in lowering resting heart rate.
0:04:29 Lowering resting heart rate matters a lot.
0:04:35 If you want to force your heart rate to lower, do 10 seconds in, 20 seconds hold, 20 seconds out.
0:04:41 Like extreme, but that extreme hold, extreme outs will lower your resting heart rate, I find,
0:04:42 faster than other things.
0:04:44 That’s kind of like what Wim Hof does, right?
0:04:46 But in terms of like holding it in and letting it out?
0:04:48 His is a little bit different.
0:04:48 Is it?
0:04:54 Wims is you breathe vigorously in and out 30 times over, and then you exhale, and then
0:04:55 you hold your breath.
0:04:55 Right.
0:04:58 So that will increase resting heart rate rather than decrease it.
0:05:00 Okay, so it’s the opposite of what you want.
0:05:00 Okay.
0:05:00 Yeah.
0:05:01 Cool.
0:05:03 Yeah, I’ve actually tried to meditate in the morning.
0:05:05 I used to do it at night, and I stopped.
0:05:07 I’m not sure why I stopped.
0:05:11 I remember when I would do it, I would have like the best sleep ever, and I’d just instantly
0:05:14 go to sleep, you know, because otherwise I lay in bed and I’m just thinking about a thousand
0:05:15 different things.
0:05:16 It seemed like it really helped for that.
0:05:17 Yep.
0:05:18 A hundred percent.
0:05:18 Cool.
0:05:22 So my understanding is you had like a cool demo to show me of your company’s superpower.
0:05:23 Like, I’d love to see it.
0:05:24 Yeah, let’s do it.
0:05:26 I’ll share how the membership works today.
0:05:31 The idea is we want to create the one place people come to, to take control of their health.
0:05:34 And there’s three parts to our annual membership today.
0:05:38 Part number one is collecting as much data on someone as possible.
0:05:44 So at the start of the year, we’ll send a nurse to someone’s home, collect over a hundred plus
0:05:47 blood biomarkers, and then allow them to get all of these other tests as well.
0:05:50 Gut microbiome, environmental toxins, cancer screening.
0:05:56 We’ll pull all of that in to a data page where you can visualize all of your past results over
0:05:57 time as well.
0:05:59 We have these beautiful graphical ranges.
0:06:04 We’ve defined not just normal and out of range, but also an optimal range, right?
0:06:07 Which we’ve worked with a PhD out of Oxford to define.
0:06:11 And then we’ll pull in all of someone’s past medical records as well, integrating with the
0:06:11 EMRs.
0:06:17 And this is important because having full context on the person is important in AI-led
0:06:18 paradigm of medicine.
0:06:21 And then finally, we’ll integrate someone’s wearables too.
0:06:25 So that’s part number one, collect as much data as someone else as possible, test the whole
0:06:26 body, and people love that experience.
0:06:29 We’ll visualize and we’ll show biological age as well.
0:06:34 Part number two is now that we know so much about people, how do we actually connect the
0:06:35 dots, right?
0:06:38 How do we tell someone, look, here’s the thousands of data points, but here’s what’s really going
0:06:38 on.
0:06:40 Here are the issues you have today.
0:06:41 Here’s what might come up in the future.
0:06:45 So we build some of this, this big protocol, which is a combination of our medical team
0:06:46 and AI.
0:06:51 And people love this because they get to the end of it and they’re like, oh, whoa, now I
0:06:53 really see what’s going on in my body.
0:06:55 I never had any doctor connect the dots like this before.
0:06:58 And we’ll tell someone, here’s exactly what you should do.
0:07:03 And the final part, what I used to find frustrating about medicine is you’d leave the doctor’s office
0:07:05 and they’d say, good luck, you’re left to your own devices.
0:07:09 What we try to do is after we tell you what to do, we try to actually help you do it.
0:07:11 So any follow-up diagnostics are in one place.
0:07:15 At any given point in time, we’ll show you, here’s the exact next step.
0:07:17 You should never have to think about it.
0:07:18 Here’s the exact next step.
0:07:24 If you need access to a supplement or pharmaceutical, we’ve brought only our favorite, highest quality
0:07:28 products into one place, all 20% cheaper than Amazon or elsewhere.
0:07:35 The idea is if you’re a member, it should be cheaper and easier to access the best care within the ecosystem and hunting outside.
0:07:43 And then the final thing is if you have a health question, you can pull out your phone, you can message your health AI or send a text message to your concierge team.
0:07:43 Oh, that’s awesome.
0:07:45 So this is basically like your own AI doctor.
0:07:50 You give it all the data about yourself and then now it knows all it’s about you versus having to go into a doctor.
0:07:51 So this one here is the AI.
0:07:51 Okay.
0:07:52 Yeah.
0:07:53 And then this one here is a medical team.
0:07:57 There’s this three humans on it, assisted with technology and AI.
0:07:57 Right.
0:07:58 So you have both.
0:07:59 So basically that’s what we do today.
0:08:01 Test the whole body twice a year.
0:08:02 We’re a hundred plus labs.
0:08:08 Connect the dots, tell you what to do and make it really, really easy to take action with a lot of things in one place.
0:08:14 And that membership today we’re doing for $42 a month or $499 a year, which I think is like quite affordable.
0:08:18 So we’re growing quite quickly and having a lot of people wanting to sign up.
0:08:19 Yeah, it’s awesome.
0:08:28 I always thought it was so weird that you go into the doctor and you see them for like 15 minutes, 30 minutes, whatever, and they’re on to the next thing and they barely know who you are or anything about you.
0:08:38 They glance at this thing, you know, showing all your data and it seems like this will make it possible where, you know, the AI will actually understand who you are and what’s going on in your own body, like personalized.
0:08:39 How long have you guys been doing this?
0:08:41 Like what was the inspiration for starting it?
0:08:45 I, as I mentioned, went through a challenging personal health experience.
0:08:46 Yeah.
0:08:48 Chronic migraines, chronic sinusitis.
0:08:50 I had surgery, was taught to medicate for life.
0:08:55 Didn’t really know what was going on until I found a genius doctor who connected the dots.
0:09:02 And it made me realize there’s a big gap between the best of healthcare and what most people have access to.
0:09:09 And I’ve believed for the past decade or so that for as long as that gap exists, someone or some company has to come along and close it.
0:09:21 And I didn’t think that was possible until November, 2020, 2022, when ChatGBT was launched and started to show a path towards what was possible with these AI tools.
0:09:30 And we started the company with the belief that we could take the very best of medicine that today costs hundreds of thousands of dollars and make that accessible for a few hundred dollars.
0:09:32 So that was the initial impetus.
0:09:32 That’s awesome.
0:09:37 I think I have how many people that a lot of times with doctors, they’re not like checking for cancer or things like that ahead of time.
0:09:39 They’re just like telling you like, oh, you’ve got cancer.
0:09:41 They’re not doing a lot of preventive stuff.
0:09:43 And yeah, so it’s just like they’re going to be a game changer.
0:09:45 Yep, 100%.
0:09:48 How can people listening to this, how can they actually like live a longer life?
0:09:53 Just use superpower or is there any other like practical advice you can give people that they could just get started with today?
0:09:57 Oh man, if you want to live a longer life, we’re going to need biotech.
0:10:00 And biotech might be expensive.
0:10:03 It’s the unfortunate reality of where the future is going.
0:10:07 But biotech will define the future more than healthy eating.
0:10:10 And access to biotech might be unevenly distributed.
0:10:14 And insofar as AI can make us more productive, that’s interesting.
0:10:21 I think today, these foundational models, if it has full context, they’re very good at connecting the dots.
0:10:23 They’re very good at working out what’s going on.
0:10:26 There are ways to prompt it to make it more effective.
0:10:28 I find the reasoning models like O3 are the best.
0:10:33 I’ll prompt it with something like, you’re an elite integrative medicine doctor.
0:10:34 You’re the best in the world.
0:10:36 You know everything about medicine.
0:10:37 You know everything about me.
0:10:39 You know everything at the frontier.
0:10:42 You also understand traditional Chinese medicine and Ayurvedic medicine.
0:10:44 You’ve seen everything.
0:10:46 You think deeply about the root cause.
0:10:48 And my doctor, here’s what’s going on for me.
0:10:49 Explain everything.
0:10:50 I’ll give it everything.
0:10:53 My upbringing, my life, what I eat, what I do.
0:10:55 And if you give it all of that, it’s really damn good.
0:10:57 So that’s just ChatGPT.
0:11:01 Now, there’s a lot of other things you can do with prompting that make it far better.
0:11:04 We try to do a lot of that with the superpower AI.
0:11:06 But you can do a lot now with ChatGPT.
0:11:07 They’re pretty impressive.
0:11:08 Yeah, I’ve been surprised.
0:11:12 I had a hand injury and it was like lingering for like three or four months.
0:11:15 And I started chatting with ChatGPT about it.
0:11:17 And like, it told me exactly what was going on.
0:11:19 Now, I went to a doctor and they told me basically the same thing.
0:11:22 And so I’m like, oh, in theory, I could have just used ChatGPT.
0:11:24 I didn’t necessarily have to go to a doctor.
0:11:24 Oh, yeah.
0:11:27 These AIs are better than the doctors often now.
0:11:34 There was this paper that came out that showed doctor accuracy, doctor plus AI accuracy, and then just AI accuracy.
0:11:38 The just AI was better than the doctor plus the AI.
0:11:40 It was more accurate.
0:11:47 And that’s the model today with limited context, without being specialized or set up for medicine-specific use cases.
0:11:51 Where we’re going is models that are more specialized with more context.
0:11:51 Yeah.
0:11:56 We’re still holding on to humans as the practitioners of the art of medicine.
0:12:02 And I think anyone who does that is still reasoning from the past and reasoning from the current point in time we’re at.
0:12:06 Whereas I think what we need to consider is the rate of change and the directionality of change.
0:12:11 And if we think models today are impressive, well, in two years’ time, we’re going to be blown away.
0:12:12 Right.
0:12:12 Yeah.
0:12:18 I mean, if you think about, you know, doctors, they get paid so much because they go to school for a really long time and they remember lots of stuff.
0:12:24 And, you know, they read so many different books and they probably retain, like, I don’t know, 5% of the knowledge or something like that that’s actually out there.
0:12:27 With AI, obviously, they can, like, know every single paper that’s out there.
0:12:29 And then, like you said, even other stuff, you know, Chinese medicine, whatever.
0:12:34 You can look at the collective knowledge of humanity, you know, with health and actually apply that.
0:12:35 It’s a fascinating concept.
0:12:36 Yeah.
0:12:40 I think that’s such a good point, which is that a large part of medical school is remembering knowledge.
0:12:41 Right.
0:12:46 And one of the magical things about technology is we don’t have to remember knowledge anymore.
0:12:48 So, yeah, look, I tend to agree.
0:12:50 And we already implicitly know this is true.
0:12:53 There are people who hear this and be like, what do you mean he’s talking?
0:12:55 I’m like, we already implicitly know this is true.
0:12:58 When you have a health question, what do you do?
0:13:00 You go to Google or ChatGPT before the doctor.
0:13:01 Typically what people do.
0:13:04 Then you go to the doctor and they might say some things.
0:13:08 And then you go back to Google and ChatGPT after the doctor.
0:13:09 And you know what?
0:13:12 During the consult, the doctor’s using Google and ChatGPT as well.
0:13:17 We already implicitly know that people go to the algorithm a lot of the time before they go to the doctor.
0:13:18 Right.
0:13:21 It is like people are still going to want to see a doctor in a lot of cases, right?
0:13:24 They want to talk to a person and this will probably change over time.
0:13:27 I think as of right now, people want to talk to a doctor and be reassured, things like this.
0:13:30 And I guess also if you get like a bad diagnosis or something too, right?
0:13:34 Like that’s probably where you would want a human telling you, I guess, versus an AI.
0:13:36 But in the future, that will probably change.
0:13:37 Maybe in the future, it’s entirely AI.
0:13:40 You know, maybe it’s all superpower or other companies like superpower, right?
0:13:42 Today, 100%.
0:13:47 People, trust, humans, the opinion of a doctor validates or invalidates an AI.
0:13:50 It makes you more likely to follow a recommendation.
0:13:52 That’s all going to change.
0:13:53 It’s inevitable.
0:13:55 I’ll give you maybe a hypothetical.
0:13:57 Let’s say you’re boarding an airplane.
0:13:59 You’re going to do a 15-hour trip.
0:14:04 And over the loudspeaker, you hear, the autopilot and the technology is not working this flight.
0:14:06 The pilot’s just going to fly it.
0:14:09 You’re going to be like, get me out of here.
0:14:10 Where’s the parachute?
0:14:15 We’re sorry to tell you, but the AI and the technology is broken.
0:14:16 The pilot is going to be flying the rest.
0:14:19 You’re like, no, no, this is like, are you fearing for your life?
0:14:21 Especially if you’re going to turbulence or something, right?
0:14:22 You’d be like freaking out.
0:14:24 That’s where we’re going to get to, right?
0:14:24 Yeah.
0:14:30 And if you said to someone in 1940 that the AI is going to fly the plane, they would have been like,
0:14:31 no way, that’s so unsafe.
0:14:32 I need the human there.
0:14:34 Well, now it’s the opposite.
0:14:34 Yeah.
0:14:37 I think we’re going to see that now we need the AI there.
0:14:38 We’re going to see the same in healthcare.
0:14:40 Again, we’ll like deny it and then it will happen.
0:14:41 And yeah.
0:14:42 Yeah.
0:14:42 Yeah.
0:14:45 It feels like younger people embrace it, you know, faster.
0:14:49 I talked to people in my family recently who didn’t even know that AI helps fly the planes.
0:14:53 I think there’s actually a lot of people who don’t or aren’t even aware of that, actually.
0:14:54 Totally.
0:14:55 There’s a reason why there’s still a pilot in the cockpit.
0:14:56 Right.
0:14:58 The pilot maybe does a couple of things.
0:15:01 But if you chat with a commercial airline pilot, ask them about how much they actually do.
0:15:02 Right.
0:15:02 It’s not much.
0:15:03 Yeah.
0:15:04 I live here in Japan.
0:15:04 It’s even with the trains.
0:15:05 You notice that too.
0:15:06 I’m pretty sure most of it’s automated.
0:15:09 And you see the guy up there and he’s like, you’re just really casual.
0:15:12 He’s like sipping a coffee, not really paying much attention to anything.
0:15:15 He kind of makes sure there’s nothing on the track or like, you know, make sure people are
0:15:16 okay and stuff.
0:15:19 But it seems like it’s all just kind of ran by computer systems.
0:15:25 Hey, we’ll be right back to the show.
0:15:28 But first, I’m going to tell you about another podcast I know you’re going to love.
0:15:30 It’s called Marketing Against the Grain.
0:15:33 It’s hosted by Kip Bodner and Kieran Flanagan.
0:15:38 And it’s brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business
0:15:38 professionals.
0:15:43 If you want to know what’s happening now in marketing, especially how to use AI marketing,
0:15:44 this is the podcast for you.
0:15:50 Kip and Kieran share their marketing expertise, unfiltered in the details, the truth, and like
0:15:51 nobody else will tell it to you.
0:15:58 They recently had a great episode called Using ChatTBT 03 to Plan Our 2025 Marketing Campaign.
0:16:05 It was full of like actual insights as well as just things I had not thought of about how
0:16:06 to apply AI to marketing.
0:16:08 I highly suggest you check it out.
0:16:11 Listen to Marketing Against the Grain wherever you get your podcasts.
0:16:15 Cool.
0:16:18 So I heard you had some controversial takes on supplements.
0:16:20 You know, I take a few supplements.
0:16:22 My co-host, Matt Wolfe, he’s super into supplements.
0:16:24 I think he takes like, I don’t know, 30 or so.
0:16:27 But yeah, I heard you had some controversial takes on supplements.
0:16:29 So like, should I be taking supplements?
0:16:29 Do they matter?
0:16:32 Or are they like, you know, are they BS or what?
0:16:35 I think supplements are overrated and many are likely BS.
0:16:36 Okay.
0:16:39 And at the same time, I take 30 to 50 a day.
0:16:41 In case, okay.
0:16:42 Kind of in case, I don’t know.
0:16:44 I think I’m like updating my views on it.
0:16:45 So there’s a few things.
0:16:53 One is that no amount of supplementation is going to solve for foundational problems that
0:16:56 should be addressed by attacking the root cause.
0:17:01 And no amount of supplementation is going to reliably guarantee you live past 100.
0:17:01 Right.
0:17:02 Right.
0:17:06 So right away, we know that even if supplements are marginally useful, they’re not that game
0:17:06 changing.
0:17:11 So we can already say, if they’re not that game changing, then I shouldn’t obsess about
0:17:11 them too much.
0:17:17 The next thing I’d say is that a lot of supplements are fake or dosed incorrectly or have other
0:17:21 sorts of additives or use the wrong part of the compound.
0:17:25 I was in the UAE last week and I was going to buy some vitamin D.
0:17:27 There are all these things in the pharmacy.
0:17:28 And you see this in the US as well.
0:17:31 There are all of these vitamin D in the pharmacy with like fancy branding.
0:17:33 I’m like, okay, but let’s actually look into it.
0:17:33 I look into it.
0:17:35 It’s like 300 I use.
0:17:38 And I’m like, well, no, I need like at least probably 5,000 for what I’m going for.
0:17:41 So 300, 5,000, that dosing doesn’t seem right.
0:17:46 The actual supplement itself has preservatives and colors and fake sugar and other shit in
0:17:46 it.
0:17:47 I’m like, well, I don’t want that.
0:17:49 Is that because it’s cheaper to make or something like that?
0:17:49 Is that why they do that?
0:17:50 I don’t know.
0:17:54 And then it didn’t have vitamin K, which is necessary for the absorption of vitamin D.
0:17:58 So it’s like, great, the marketing’s good, but the vitamin D is a negligible amount.
0:18:03 I’m adding all of this other shit to my body and there’s no vitamin K, which is a co-factor
0:18:04 necessary for the absorption of vitamin D.
0:18:11 Now take a correctly dosed vitamin D, really good source, purely encapsulated, no additives,
0:18:14 3,000 I use, maybe 5,000 I use.
0:18:16 They add vitamin K2.
0:18:20 Ideally, they add vitamin K2 as both forms, MK4 and MK7.
0:18:22 And maybe they add vitamin K1 as well.
0:18:26 All of those things now make a form of, that’s just vitamin D.
0:18:29 You can look across every other supplement and you have a similar thing.
0:18:32 So the second thing I’d say is like, not all supplements are created equal and there’s
0:18:33 a lot of junk out there.
0:18:37 And then the third thing I’d say, which is more speculative, and I don’t believe this
0:18:41 enough yet to stop taking supplements, but there might be something here, is that supplements
0:18:42 actually drain energy.
0:18:45 Our bodies are not used to processing the dry powder.
0:18:50 A lot of negative charge goes into actually creating the supplements in a big manufacturing.
0:18:50 lab.
0:18:55 And as a result, through mechanisms we don’t quite understand, supplements drain your body
0:18:56 of energy.
0:18:59 And again, I don’t believe that enough to have stopped taking them.
0:19:00 I took 30 last night.
0:19:02 But I think it’s interesting.
0:19:02 Right.
0:19:05 And some people hear this stuff and they’re like, no, that’s bullsh**.
0:19:09 Typically, when I hear someone say that’s bullsh**, my response is, this is interesting.
0:19:13 We don’t have evidence yet, but it might be worth pursuing and studying.
0:19:15 Because before there’s evidence, there’s always no evidence.
0:19:16 Yeah, totally.
0:19:16 Right?
0:19:17 It’s just a hypothesis.
0:19:22 Probably for the last two years, in terms of longevity, everyone thinks of Brian Johnson
0:19:22 now.
0:19:26 What do you think of Brian and what he’s doing and trying to live forever and all the crazy
0:19:27 stuff he’s doing on his body?
0:19:29 Look, I have a lot of respects for Brian.
0:19:30 Yeah.
0:19:32 I think that he’s a very good thinker.
0:19:35 I think that he’s creating a religion, which is non-trivial.
0:19:38 I think he cares about what he’s creating as a religion.
0:19:45 There are a set of very strong fundamental beliefs underlying it, which is that we need to follow
0:19:48 the algorithm because there’ll come a point in time where the algorithm knows more than
0:19:53 us, where the only thing we know is that at this very moment, I don’t want to die and
0:19:57 therefore don’t die is the most played game in a moniker or the religion.
0:19:57 Right.
0:19:58 So I really like that.
0:20:01 I think at the same time, he’s popularizing several health interventions.
0:20:03 I don’t think he’s at the frontier.
0:20:07 I see things he does and I’ll have doctor friends say, this is dumb.
0:20:08 He’s going to change this.
0:20:10 And then like three months later, he like changes it.
0:20:10 That’s fine.
0:20:11 He’s learning.
0:20:14 You got to remember, he’s been playing this game for five years.
0:20:17 There are doctors out there who have been playing this game of human optimization for
0:20:20 like 30 years, 40 years, 50 years.
0:20:24 So I still think there’s a lot he doesn’t know and he’s discovering it and sharing everything
0:20:24 he’s learning on the way.
0:20:26 So a lot of respect for Brian.
0:20:26 Right.
0:20:28 Yeah, I think that’s part that’s interesting.
0:20:32 And, you know, what I found fascinating in like a few interviews with him, he talked about
0:20:35 one of the reasons for him doing it was that, you know, it’s kind of like the whole thing
0:20:39 I was saying earlier, like we’re heading into the age of AI, like some of this technology
0:20:42 may unlock us to live an extra hundred years in the future.
0:20:47 And so, hey, try to make sure you can make it to that point so you can actually extend
0:20:47 your life.
0:20:49 I think that’s an interesting point.
0:20:49 Yeah.
0:20:52 And one thing I was thinking about, people always talk about their sleep, like monitoring
0:20:53 their sleep.
0:20:54 And I think you mentioned you used to do that.
0:20:56 Do you recommend monitoring your sleep?
0:20:59 Because that’s something I’ve always thought I probably should be doing that.
0:21:01 But I’m worried that I’m going to get super obsessed with it.
0:21:04 And maybe that’ll make me sleep, you know, less actually, because I’m worried about it.
0:21:07 I think most people should try and see whether they like it.
0:21:11 I think most people should do it for at least a couple of months because they’ll learn,
0:21:16 they’ll start to be able to develop a better interoception such that when they remove the ring
0:21:20 or the band, they still have a sense of what’s going on with their sleep.
0:21:25 I do think that it can end up making you more anxious about sleep and that will make your
0:21:26 sleep worse.
0:21:29 And that’s part of why I don’t open my Aura Ring app every morning now.
0:21:34 But I also think that even if you don’t want to look at the data, it could be worth collecting
0:21:37 the data because we’re into a world where we never have to look at the data.
0:21:39 The AI will just tell us what to do.
0:21:43 And in that world, I want to have a lot of data on myself to support the AI.
0:21:45 So that’s kind of how I think about the sleep question.
0:21:47 With Superpower, do you have something like that for now?
0:21:50 Do you like submit sleep data or is that something you guys have thought of doing?
0:21:53 Yeah, we integrate with Aura, several other wearables.
0:21:54 Yeah.
0:21:56 And that allows us to collect sleep data.
0:21:57 Awesome.
0:22:01 So you mentioned, you know, you already kind of shared like one controversial health belief
0:22:03 about the thing with supplements, they might drain energy.
0:22:06 Is that the most controversial health belief that you have?
0:22:08 Or is there anything else that’s even more controversial?
0:22:13 There are a lot of things that I think have a 5% probability, which most people call like
0:22:14 bulls**t.
0:22:16 And there are some that I think are higher probability.
0:22:17 Okay.
0:22:20 Now, my problem with all the 5% probability ones is I’ll say them and people say, this is
0:22:21 what he believes.
0:22:22 I’m like, no, no, no.
0:22:22 I believe the opposite.
0:22:24 But I think there’s a chance of this thing.
0:22:25 People have a hard time.
0:22:29 They’re like, have really binary mindsets of like, no, it’s got to be 100% true.
0:22:31 Or he’s saying it’s 100% false.
0:22:33 And people have a hard time in between.
0:22:33 Yeah.
0:22:33 Totally.
0:22:37 I guess like a classic example of this is vaccines.
0:22:43 I do think there’s somewhere between a 5% and probably 15% chance the vaccines are linked
0:22:45 to autoimmunity and maybe even autism.
0:22:46 There’s a low chance.
0:22:47 There’s a low but real chance.
0:22:51 I will say something like that and people will be like, he’s an anti-vax.
0:22:52 I’m like, no, I said there’s a low chance.
0:22:57 And therefore, we have to explore it and consider it versus just criticize and turn the blind
0:23:00 eye and hate and label, right?
0:23:00 Yeah.
0:23:03 Hating and labeling sounds a lot like propaganda to me.
0:23:06 And there are certainly incentives to obstruction industry that way.
0:23:12 One belief that I am higher probability on is one of our advisors and doctors, she runs
0:23:14 one of the leading cancer clinics around the world.
0:23:18 And I asked her, what is the number one thing you can do to prevent cancer?
0:23:22 And she says, PMA, positive mental attitude.
0:23:23 It’s the number one thing.
0:23:24 And I actually agree with that.
0:23:30 I genuinely believe that how we think, the beliefs we have, the self-talk, the way we relate
0:23:35 to ourselves, the amount of gratitude we have, impacts all health outcomes, impacts cancer,
0:23:39 neurodegeneration, autoimmunity, pain, and other things in our body.
0:23:44 And I think that the relationship between the brain and thoughts and biology is not well
0:23:44 understood.
0:23:47 And we’ll increasingly get to a world where it is well understood.
0:23:50 Do you have any theories on if that’s true?
0:23:51 Like why it’s true?
0:23:55 Like why would positive thinking and things like that have a positive impact on your health?
0:23:57 Besides maybe like it lowers your stress or there’s something else more extreme?
0:24:01 Like, look, a lot of our biology is modified by our brain.
0:24:02 We know that.
0:24:06 Like we can, through our brain, choose to increase or decrease our heart rate.
0:24:07 Right.
0:24:07 Right.
0:24:09 We can choose to do a lot of things.
0:24:10 We can tense our muscles.
0:24:13 We can do a lot of things via our brain.
0:24:19 And we understand how thinking certain things changes biology and changing a biology changes.
0:24:20 We understand that mapping.
0:24:24 Now, what we don’t understand is the mapping when it gets to things like cancer.
0:24:29 But I think if the mapping exists for very simple things, I think that it’s likely and
0:24:32 completely possible that it exists for more complex things as well.
0:24:36 The exact mechanism I don’t understand, I don’t know if anyone understands, which is
0:24:38 why people still call this woo-woo and pseudoscience.
0:24:43 But throughout history, many of the things we now call science, we used to call pseudoscience.
0:24:45 So again, I think the right approach is curiosity.
0:24:50 And that’s the first step in the scientific method, curiosity and hypothesis, rather than just
0:24:50 being closed-minded.
0:24:51 Yeah, I agree.
0:24:54 In some ways, you know, science has become almost like a cult.
0:24:55 You know, everyone has to agree.
0:24:56 There’s, you know, what’s the paper?
0:25:00 And if it’s not a paper that their peers have reviewed, you can’t even discuss it.
0:25:02 And it’s like, no, you can still discuss it.
0:25:06 Like, it doesn’t mean it’s 100% true, but it doesn’t mean you should just like completely
0:25:08 shut the door and say it’s impossible.
0:25:09 That’s always kind of driven me crazy.
0:25:10 Okay.
0:25:13 So maybe I got a fun question to end things.
0:25:16 You know, imagine you have a time machine, you know, and you step out.
0:25:17 It’s 2050.
0:25:18 What’s different?
0:25:19 What’s changed?
0:25:21 You know, not just health, but maybe also talk about health.
0:25:24 Gosh, no one knows.
0:25:30 More than ever, no one knows because the rate of change is completely unprecedented.
0:25:35 I think that it’s going to be way different to what people think.
0:25:39 I suspect that we likely won’t think about what we do in our actions.
0:25:43 I think the AI will just tell us and we will blindly follow the AI.
0:25:49 I think that just about everything we today call work will no longer exist as jobs.
0:25:52 So you’re most thinking like, I mean, we almost become the robots.
0:25:53 Like the AI is powering us.
0:25:54 Well, potentially.
0:25:55 Yeah.
0:26:00 I think that in a world where the AI knows far, far, far more than us, we don’t have a choice
0:26:01 but to follow the algorithm.
0:26:05 So there’s totally a world where the AI determines our behaviors.
0:26:10 There’s also a world where the AI has merged with us and the AI is part of our thoughts.
0:26:15 And we are cyborgs and I think that cyborgs will be here far closer than we think.
0:26:21 Particularly because if someone who’s a cyborg has a survival advantage, then other humans
0:26:24 will have to become cyborgs because we’re reasonably Darwinistic creatures.
0:26:26 We care about survival advantages.
0:26:29 And as a result, I think cyborgs are here sooner than people think.
0:26:33 Like by 2050, are we like merging with AI by then?
0:26:35 Yeah, I think so.
0:26:37 Yeah, if I was doing an overrun.
0:26:37 Yeah, I think so.
0:26:40 Somebody’s listening right now like, what the hell are they talking about?
0:26:42 Yeah, I know.
0:26:42 Cool.
0:26:43 Oh, yeah.
0:26:44 One last question.
0:26:46 I always like to ask people, you know, my son is 11.
0:26:50 And, you know, now with AI, I’m always trying to think like, what should I be teaching him,
0:26:52 you know, to make sure he’s successful in the future?
0:26:54 If you had a child, what would you be teaching them right now?
0:26:55 Would you be teaching them to code?
0:26:58 Or would you, you know, something completely different?
0:27:01 No, no, no skills, no skills, no jobs, none of it’s relevant.
0:27:09 I would be teaching them people and relationships and how the world works and leverage and company
0:27:10 building.
0:27:13 Maybe I’d get them to like play around with AI and understanding it.
0:27:15 But like the AI is going to do the coding.
0:27:17 The AI is going to do the prompting.
0:27:19 I would focus very much on people.
0:27:23 I think that scarce resources will not be, can you code?
0:27:26 It’ll be, can you unlock a door that is gated by a person?
0:27:27 Right.
0:27:31 So I’d focus more on everything that’s innately human, rather than everything that is some
0:27:35 sort of skill that is constructed by the current nature of our world.
0:27:37 That makes a lot of sense.
0:27:37 Yeah.
0:27:41 So like teaching him more about culture, comedy, just all kinds of different things that would
0:27:43 be useful in personal relations, probably.
0:27:51 Psychology, biology, getting them to meet people, host dinners, sales, persuasion.
0:27:52 Interesting.
0:27:56 Like, I think the importance of networks likely become far greater.
0:27:59 This whole idea of like, it’s not what you know, it’s who you know.
0:28:04 I think that that is more true, likely in the next five years than it has been for the
0:28:06 past couple of decades.
0:28:06 I agree.
0:28:09 You know, I’ve had this conversation with my friend, Greg Eisenberg.
0:28:11 You know, it’s part of the reason we both have been doing more content.
0:28:13 We totally agree with it.
0:28:17 Like in the future, your networks and who you know is going to matter a whole lot, especially
0:28:19 when anyone can press a button and copy a product.
0:28:20 It’s going to matter a lot.
0:28:21 I think so.
0:28:26 But I also wonder at the same time, whether we’re going to just see AIs chatting with AIs.
0:28:32 For example, right now, if someone messages me on LinkedIn, my EA is responding most of
0:28:33 the time rather than me.
0:28:37 Now, in a year, that’s probably going to be my AI responding.
0:28:39 Is this the first time we’ve actually talked?
0:28:42 No.
0:28:45 That’d be hilarious.
0:28:46 I still got Twitter.
0:28:46 Twitter’s less noisy.
0:28:49 LinkedIn, I get like hundreds of messages a week.
0:28:51 Twitter’s still quite high signal.
0:28:52 So I’m on Twitter.
0:28:53 I’m using WhatsApp.
0:28:55 Emails are a mix.
0:28:55 Half, half.
0:29:00 And again, though, we’ll get to a world where the AI drafts our emails, where the AI liaises
0:29:01 with the other AI.
0:29:03 It’s just like AIs all the way down.
0:29:06 I think that the problem with the world today is we treat kids like they’re kids.
0:29:08 And we never used to do that.
0:29:11 Alexander the Great was 21 when he ran the army.
0:29:12 Napoleon Bonaparte was 22.
0:29:14 Julius Caesar was 23.
0:29:16 Joan of Arc was like 20.
0:29:19 I might be getting the ages off by a couple of years, but roughly that.
0:29:22 And that’s because when they were kids, they were not treated like kids.
0:29:27 And I think that gaming when we’re younger allows us to do something like this.
0:29:29 And then you can start creating your own businesses.
0:29:32 I kind of reflect back on myself when I was young.
0:29:37 I was like, I actually think I was better as a business person on Minecraft than I was
0:29:42 for the next five to 10 years in real life because I had zero, zero fear and no one told
0:29:43 me whether I could or couldn’t do something.
0:29:44 Yeah, totally.
0:29:48 There were so many strategies that worked to make money on Minecraft that honestly would
0:29:51 have worked really, really damn well in the real world.
0:29:51 Right.
0:29:53 I just didn’t realize I could do it in the real world.
0:29:54 And I think about that often.
0:29:55 Right.
0:29:56 Dude, this has been awesome, Max.
0:29:58 It’s been great getting to know you.
0:29:58 Yeah.
0:29:59 Likewise, Nathan.
0:30:01 Yeah, it’d be awesome to have you on again sometime in the future.
0:30:02 Thanks, Max.
0:30:02 Great.
0:30:03 Thanks, Nathan.
Episode 62: Could an AI that knows everything about your health help you live to an extreme age? Nathan Lands (https://x.com/NathanLands) sits down with Max Marchione (https://x.com/maxmarchione), founder of Superpower, to explore the future of AI-powered longevity.
In this episode, Nathan and Max dive deep into how artificial intelligence is transforming the field of medicine—making personal health tracking, diagnostics, and preventative care more accessible than ever. Max explains why he believes everyone will soon have an AI doctor more knowledgeable than any human, how Superpower integrates wearables and biomarker data into actionable protocols, and why supplements might be overrated, even if he still takes dozens each day. If you want to live longer, thrive in the age of AI, and get practical longevity tips, you won’t want to miss this conversation.
Check out The Next Wave YouTube Channel if you want to see Matt and Nathan on screen: https://lnk.to/thenextwavepd
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Show Notes:
-
(00:00) AI Doctors are the Future
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(05:44) Comprehensive Health Data Analysis
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(08:04) Closing Healthcare Gaps with AI
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(11:58) Technology’s Role in Medical Knowledge
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(12:40) Preferring Doctors Over AI
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(16:56) Supplements: Not All Beneficial?
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(19:30) Trial Data Gathering Sleep Devices
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(24:23) Impending Cyborg Reality
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(25:28) Focus on People, Not Skills
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(28:21) Discovering Real-World Potential
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Mentions:
- Want Matt’s favorite AI Tools? Get it here: https://clickhubspot.com/klw
-
Max Marchione: https://www.maxmarchione.com/
-
superpower: https://superpower.com/
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Bryan Johnson: https://blueprint.bryanjohnson.com/
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ChatGPT: https://chatgpt.com/
Get the guide to build your own Custom GPT: https://clickhubspot.com/tnw
—
Check Out Matt’s Stuff:
• Future Tools – https://futuretools.beehiiv.com/
• Blog – https://www.mattwolfe.com/
• YouTube- https://www.youtube.com/@mreflow
—
Check Out Nathan’s Stuff:
-
Newsletter: https://news.lore.com/
-
Blog – https://lore.com/
The Next Wave is a HubSpot Original Podcast // Brought to you by Hubspot Media // Production by Darren Clarke // Editing by Ezra Bakker Trupiano
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