Dave Liniger: Top Leadership Principles to Achieve Extraordinary Entrepreneurship Success

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0:01:15 – How do you wanna change the world?
0:01:18 Why are you so passionate about this business
0:01:19 that you’re starting?
0:01:21 – What’s your advice to leaders
0:01:23 to get better at receiving feedback
0:01:24 no matter who it’s from?
0:01:27 Ignore it, everybody has an opinion.
0:01:29 That doesn’t mean everybody is right.
0:01:32 Loyalty is a two-way street
0:01:35 and loyalty starts at the top going down,
0:01:36 not the down going up.
0:01:39 Your job is to create an environment
0:01:41 where the people that work for you
0:01:45 can achieve the level of success they want.
0:01:48 The number one most important factor of a leader
0:01:49 is the leader sells hope.
0:01:50 – What does success mean to you?
0:01:53 – The best definition I have ever heard of success
0:01:54 is.
0:02:02 (upbeat music)
0:02:13 – Young and Profiters, welcome back to the show.
0:02:16 And today we have a true real estate icon joining us,
0:02:17 Dave Linniger.
0:02:20 Dave Linniger is the co-founder of Remax,
0:02:23 which he co-founded with his wife Gail in 1973.
0:02:27 Remax is now one of the largest real estate franchises
0:02:28 to have ever existed.
0:02:33 And he’s got over 8,000 offices, 125,000 sales agents.
0:02:36 He’s done an incredible job leading this organization
0:02:39 over the past five decades.
0:02:41 Dave is no longer the CEO at Remax,
0:02:44 but he still holds a leadership position as chairman.
0:02:47 And he was CEO for 45 years plus.
0:02:50 Dave is gonna tell us all about his leadership principles.
0:02:52 He’s got a new book called Perfect 10,
0:02:54 which we’re gonna be discussing.
0:02:55 So without further delay,
0:02:58 here’s my conversation with the real estate mogul,
0:02:59 Dave Linniger.
0:03:03 Dave, welcome to Young and Profiting Podcast.
0:03:04 – Hey, Howard, thank you very much.
0:03:06 It’s nice to join you today.
0:03:08 – I’m really looking forward to this interview
0:03:12 because we are speaking right now to a real estate legend.
0:03:13 You have built a remarkable legacy
0:03:15 in the real estate industry.
0:03:17 You’re the co-founder of Remax.
0:03:20 It’s one of the largest real estate franchises in the world.
0:03:24 And you led that company for 45 years plus a CEO.
0:03:26 You’re still involved 50 years later.
0:03:29 And that’s a long time in leadership.
0:03:31 So my first question to you is,
0:03:34 how your leadership style has evolved over the years?
0:03:37 ‘Cause I could imagine with all that experience
0:03:40 and so many years that it’s evolved several times.
0:03:41 So that’s my warm-up question to you.
0:03:44 How has your leadership style evolved?
0:03:49 – How I was very young when I tried to go to college.
0:03:52 I was just barely 17.
0:03:54 I wasn’t disciplined.
0:03:55 My mommy and daddy weren’t there
0:03:58 to tell me to study every night.
0:04:00 And I failed.
0:04:03 Not failed because I was stupid.
0:04:07 My ACT scores are out of the world.
0:04:08 I was undisciplined.
0:04:12 I didn’t have the maturity that I needed.
0:04:15 I finally gave up on this college route
0:04:18 and ended up joining the United States Air Force
0:04:20 and went to Vietnam.
0:04:22 I spent six years in the Air Force.
0:04:27 It bought me six years to mature as a young man.
0:04:30 So everybody knows young women,
0:04:32 they’re pretty mature at 18.
0:04:36 And young men, sometimes it takes them an extra 10 or 20
0:04:38 or 30 years to get there.
0:04:42 And that bought me the time to mature enough
0:04:45 to where I knew where I wanted to go.
0:04:47 – And so you actually started your career
0:04:49 and you started as an entrepreneur
0:04:51 before you even had a college degree.
0:04:52 You didn’t have a college degree
0:04:54 or a management degree.
0:04:57 Did you have some level of imposter syndrome
0:04:59 before you started Remax because of this?
0:05:03 – No, I was so confident in my abilities
0:05:06 being a combat vet that I just felt
0:05:08 I could pull my way through the China closet
0:05:09 and we’d be okay.
0:05:13 So the thing that was the defining moment
0:05:16 was I realized I was not sophisticated.
0:05:20 I did not have management experience to speak of.
0:05:23 And I looked for an administrative vice president.
0:05:26 Either way, they were all women.
0:05:28 I interviewed 27 people.
0:05:33 I said no to 27 and the 28th was magic.
0:05:35 It was a woman by the name of Gail Main.
0:05:40 She was a new bride, trailing spouse,
0:05:44 followed her husband to MayDNF stores from St. Louis
0:05:49 where she had had her college and her management experience.
0:05:52 And he brought her to Denver.
0:05:54 She really wasn’t serious
0:05:56 about being an administrative vice president,
0:06:00 but I told her, I said, look, she was charismatic.
0:06:02 She was confident.
0:06:03 She was well poised.
0:06:07 I said, I don’t know how to run a real estate business.
0:06:08 I can be a sales manager.
0:06:10 I can be a trainer,
0:06:13 but I need somebody that could find office space,
0:06:17 rent it, buy furniture, hire secretaries
0:06:21 and bookkeepers and receptionists and run the company.
0:06:23 And I got lucky.
0:06:25 I was so lucky.
0:06:26 She said yes.
0:06:27 I told her I was gonna build
0:06:29 the biggest real estate company in history
0:06:33 and she very naively believed it.
0:06:35 And so fast forward 10 years.
0:06:38 She ran the business.
0:06:42 I was on the road selling franchises, opening offices,
0:06:46 expanding the company and we both grew together,
0:06:49 but we complimented each other’s abilities
0:06:50 and lack of abilities.
0:06:53 And so I’m the super salesman.
0:06:55 She was a super leader
0:07:00 and she did end up becoming CEO of the company.
0:07:05 We were not romantically involved for 10 years.
0:07:08 And at the end of 10 years,
0:07:11 every officer I had had become divorced.
0:07:15 We fell in love with this crazy mistress called Remax
0:07:18 said, hey, stand up in front of a thousand,
0:07:22 10,000 people and it’s mesmerizing.
0:07:24 And so it was just natural
0:07:27 that we had no friends outside the company.
0:07:28 And she and I became incredibly close.
0:07:32 So I have to tell you, 51 years is my partner.
0:07:38 41 years is my wife and she was awesome.
0:07:42 And we made the perfect pair complimenting each other.
0:07:44 – Oh, I love that story.
0:07:46 And I love to hear how you were able
0:07:49 to create a successful business with your partner.
0:07:51 And I love to hear that it actually started
0:07:53 as a business relationship and evolved
0:07:56 into something more fulfilling and romantic.
0:07:59 So I’m going to get to hiring later on in the interview,
0:08:00 but first I want to focus
0:08:03 on your leadership management style.
0:08:05 When you first started at Remax,
0:08:06 how were you as a leader compared
0:08:09 to how you are as a leader now?
0:08:14 – Unfortunately, I was stubborn, I was too aggressive
0:08:18 and I thought I had all the answers in the world.
0:08:20 And fast forward 50 years,
0:08:27 growing up and maturing and figuring it out
0:08:30 is I look back on those days and think,
0:08:33 oh my God, how the hell did we succeed?
0:08:38 And in essence, I am the direct result of people,
0:08:45 mentors, managers, leaders, books, seminars,
0:08:48 of trying to find my way to success.
0:08:53 And I was blessed with the most amazing group
0:08:56 of people around me that when I was failing
0:08:59 the first two or three years, I sat down
0:09:02 and I said, I’m screwing up.
0:09:04 I know I’m not doing a good job.
0:09:05 What am I doing right?
0:09:07 What am I doing wrong?
0:09:10 And realtors will tell you the truth.
0:09:14 Our managers or our officers that Gail and I started
0:09:16 were 20 years older than us.
0:09:19 And they sat down and they took me to the wood shed.
0:09:21 And I said, I’m coachable.
0:09:24 I’m not smart, but I’m sure coachable.
0:09:28 Tell me how to be the leader you want me to be.
0:09:31 And those people and all the other things
0:09:33 that happened in 50 years,
0:09:38 changed me immensely as a leader and a human being.
0:09:40 – Feedback is so important.
0:09:42 And maybe we can start here when we’re thinking
0:09:46 about leadership and principles and things like that.
0:09:47 I’m an entrepreneur.
0:09:51 I have 60 employees and I can easily take feedback
0:09:54 from the closest people that work with me.
0:09:56 But it’s really hard for me to hear feedback
0:10:00 from other employees that don’t work directly with me
0:10:02 because I feel like they don’t understand
0:10:05 how hard I’m working and everything going on
0:10:06 behind the scenes.
0:10:08 What’s your advice to leaders
0:10:10 to get better at receiving feedback
0:10:12 no matter who it’s from?
0:10:15 – Well, this isn’t the answer you want.
0:10:17 It’s ignore it.
0:10:21 Everybody has an opinion.
0:10:23 That doesn’t mean everybody is right.
0:10:26 If you’re succeeding at what you’re doing,
0:10:29 criticism comes with a job title.
0:10:31 And everybody’s gonna think,
0:10:34 I could do her job better than she can.
0:10:35 That’s nonsense.
0:10:38 If you’re the entrepreneur and you built the business,
0:10:42 some clerk in the mailroom is not got the ability
0:10:45 to tell you how the hell to run your business.
0:10:48 So I always tell everybody,
0:10:50 you will get advice from many sources.
0:10:53 Whatever you do, you’re the boss.
0:10:57 You own it, you live with it and you die with it.
0:11:01 Never let an attorney or an accountant
0:11:04 or a consultant run your business.
0:11:06 If they run into the ground,
0:11:08 they walk away and you pay their fee.
0:11:13 You are the person responsible for your corporation.
0:11:17 Believe in yourself and charge forward,
0:11:19 listen to your confidence
0:11:22 and be willing to accept criticism.
0:11:25 It’s okay because we all make mistakes,
0:11:29 but you just can’t take the people
0:11:32 that have no concept of what it’s like
0:11:34 to be responsible for an enterprise.
0:11:35 – I totally agree.
0:11:36 I’m happy you gave me that advice
0:11:39 ’cause that’s what I told my confidants.
0:11:41 I had a situation where somebody gave me
0:11:43 this book of feedback.
0:11:45 And when I read it, my heart sunk ’cause I was like,
0:11:49 man, she has no idea what she’s talking about.
0:11:50 I can’t listen to this feedback.
0:11:52 And I kind of just threw it away and moved on.
0:11:55 So I’m glad you’re on the same page here.
0:11:57 So Dave, you’ve got this new book.
0:11:59 It’s called Perfect 10.
0:12:00 10 Leadership Principles to Achieve
0:12:04 True Independence, Extreme Wealth and Huge Success.
0:12:06 Now I have a lot of people that come on the show
0:12:08 and especially lately,
0:12:11 a lot of people don’t define success with money
0:12:15 and working harder and independence
0:12:16 and things like that anymore.
0:12:18 So I wanna understand your perspective
0:12:20 of what success means.
0:12:21 What does success mean to you?
0:12:25 – Each individual has to determine success for themselves.
0:12:29 The best definition I have ever heard of success
0:12:34 is bannered about by three or four of the platform speakers.
0:12:36 And it’s very simple.
0:12:38 I wanna do what I wanna do,
0:12:40 when I wanna do it, where I wanna do it,
0:12:43 how I wanna do it and with who I wanna do it.
0:12:46 And that is success.
0:12:48 So I’m 79.
0:12:53 I had a critical injury 12, 13 years ago.
0:12:55 I have survived it.
0:12:57 I can’t do the things that I did before.
0:13:01 I drove NASCAR, I flew aerobatic jet planes,
0:13:03 I scuba-dived all over the world,
0:13:07 I sky-dived, I did all these things.
0:13:12 And all of a sudden, you wake up and you’re paralyzed.
0:13:15 I was a quad for almost a year.
0:13:19 And so then you start thinking, what is success?
0:13:24 And I realized doors open and doors close.
0:13:29 And as much as I’d love to be at Daytona in February,
0:13:33 leading the poll, ain’t never gonna happen
0:13:36 at a man my age with my reflexes
0:13:38 and my strength and my ability.
0:13:42 So the doors closed, but other doors open up.
0:13:45 So I was very fortunate one time.
0:13:50 I had a dinner with a marvelous actress.
0:13:53 She was 30 years older than me.
0:13:57 And I asked her about, well, you were young
0:13:58 and you were extraordinarily beautiful.
0:14:01 You were a screen star.
0:14:03 What’s it like now to be in your 60s?
0:14:08 And that dinner was a lasting impression to me.
0:14:11 She said, when I was young, I was like a vibrant,
0:14:15 young, wild, tasty wine.
0:14:19 And now 30, 40 years later,
0:14:22 I’m a different taste of wine.
0:14:25 I’ve mellowed, but I’m still strong.
0:14:27 And I’m happy with who I am.
0:14:29 I’ve never forgotten that conversation
0:14:31 because that’s our world.
0:14:34 We all will age.
0:14:39 And the starting quarterback that was MVP after 35
0:14:42 is never gonna be there again.
0:14:47 And so you have to come to a feeling of that was then,
0:14:50 this is now, who can I be now?
0:14:51 – I love that.
0:14:54 I love that concept of your goal posts always changing
0:14:56 and that there’s different goals
0:14:57 at different stages of life.
0:14:59 I think that’s really beautiful.
0:15:02 What was your goal in writing “The Perfect 10”?
0:15:04 Why did you write this book?
0:15:09 – A legacy, I was helped by dozens and dozens of people
0:15:14 building a real estate company with major conventions.
0:15:16 You hire the best speakers that are out there.
0:15:19 You become bosom buddies with them
0:15:23 and they accept their check and you get their advice.
0:15:27 But you grow and I made so many mistakes
0:15:32 because I was so immature and uneducated.
0:15:36 The college of hard knocks is a hell of an education.
0:15:38 Most people can’t afford the tuition.
0:15:43 And so there’s not an original thought in the book.
0:15:45 I try to put that in the forward of,
0:15:50 hey, I have learned from the shoulders of giants
0:15:53 of the very best in the world.
0:15:55 None of this is original to me.
0:16:00 It’s all been passed down over hundreds of years
0:16:05 and the knowledge Aristotle, anybody back in the time
0:16:09 is just as relevant today.
0:16:13 It’s 2000 years later and we still think the same way
0:16:17 they thought our abilities have changed because of education
0:16:21 but in reality, common sense is common sense.
0:16:24 And so every one of us should learn
0:16:27 everything we can from anybody else.
0:16:28 – Yeah, I totally agree.
0:16:31 And I know you’re such a proponent of reading
0:16:34 and I loved reading your book and hearing about the stories
0:16:37 from other entrepreneurs and writers and things like that.
0:16:40 So a lot of people who are tuning in, they are entrepreneurs
0:16:43 and I know that you invest in businesses.
0:16:45 And in your book, you say the most important question
0:16:47 that you ask an entrepreneur
0:16:49 when considering to invest in their business
0:16:52 is why are you starting this business?
0:16:54 And you say there’s just one right answer to this.
0:16:58 You’re not looking for any answer except for one right answer.
0:16:59 Can you tell us this answer
0:17:02 and why responding in this way is so important to you?
0:17:05 How do you wanna change the world?
0:17:08 Are you starting this thing to get rich?
0:17:11 Are you starting this thing to dump it in five years
0:17:15 and walk with a big paycheck and retire in Tahiti?
0:17:17 What’s your cause?
0:17:18 What’s your why?
0:17:23 Why are you so passionate about this business
0:17:25 that you’re starting?
0:17:27 – Why is passion so important to you?
0:17:30 Because a lot of people say don’t follow your passion.
0:17:31 Passion doesn’t make you money
0:17:34 but why do you feel like passion makes a good entrepreneur?
0:17:38 – If you’re dreaming, dream big.
0:17:39 Shoe fill the moon.
0:17:42 Don’t have little bitty goals.
0:17:44 Have a giant goal.
0:17:47 My goal was to build the largest, most successful
0:17:50 real estate company in the history of the world.
0:17:54 With big dreams come big obstacles.
0:17:57 If you have a passion and you believe it
0:17:59 and you go to sleep at night thinking about it
0:18:02 and you get up in the morning thinking about
0:18:03 I’ve gotta get to the office
0:18:06 ’cause this is my world, this is my passion.
0:18:11 You can get over the day-to-day mistakes
0:18:14 and problems that you will face.
0:18:15 You have to be a dreamer.
0:18:17 You’re an entrepreneur, you know that.
0:18:20 I can make the world a better place.
0:18:22 I’m not here to make more money.
0:18:25 I’m here to change people’s lives.
0:18:27 – It’s so true when building my company,
0:18:28 I pay attention to the numbers and stuff
0:18:31 but that’s definitely not what motivates me.
0:18:33 What motivates me is just keep building and innovating
0:18:36 and growing a team and making an impact.
0:18:38 So when it comes to entrepreneurship,
0:18:40 you obviously are literally one
0:18:43 of the most accomplished entrepreneurs in the world.
0:18:45 Can you talk about the personality traits
0:18:48 and the skills that you think are conducive
0:18:49 to entrepreneurship?
0:18:52 – I have a marketing background, sales background,
0:18:55 selling franchises and so on.
0:18:58 A lot of people say the marketing person
0:19:02 is not going to be a good manager.
0:19:04 Not gonna be a good leader.
0:19:05 I totally disagree.
0:19:09 If you’re an old state agent and you’re service oriented
0:19:12 and you give a damn about your customer
0:19:13 and you care more about them
0:19:15 than you do about your commission,
0:19:17 you couldn’t be a success.
0:19:20 Zig Ziglar, motivational speaker from,
0:19:23 God, 40 years ago.
0:19:25 And he said one time,
0:19:27 people don’t care how much you know
0:19:30 until they know how much you care.
0:19:34 And then even at age 20 as a real estate agent
0:19:39 in the military with a crew cut haircut and 130 pounds,
0:19:43 like I’m somebody’s teenage kid,
0:19:48 I succeeded because I’ve managed to convince the customer,
0:19:51 I will work my tail off for you
0:19:54 and I will never sell you something that’s not right.
0:19:56 And I don’t care if I make a commission or not,
0:19:58 I’m gonna solve your problem.
0:20:00 Once I had that reputation,
0:20:03 it made no difference if I was 20 or 30.
0:20:07 And so I think the most important aspect is,
0:20:09 you do have to have a passion.
0:20:12 You have to figure out what difference
0:20:14 am I going to make in the world?
0:20:18 Now, if I can say this very modestly,
0:20:22 for 10 years, I was the youngest person in remex.
0:20:26 Unfortunately, 50 years later,
0:20:31 many of my people I sold to in the ’70s and ’80s
0:20:33 have retired and passed away.
0:20:36 The biggest joy I have in my life
0:20:40 is having letters sent to me and my wife.
0:20:42 You changed my life.
0:20:44 I created wealth for my family.
0:20:48 I never had the life I thought I would have.
0:20:52 You have impacted me so immensely.
0:20:54 I want you to know that before I die.
0:20:56 That’s what leadership is.
0:20:58 Leadership is not stock options.
0:21:02 Leadership is not, I’m CEO, look at me.
0:21:06 Leadership is, did you turn around and put your hand down
0:21:08 to help the next person come up
0:21:10 with a couple more steps up the mountain?
0:21:14 And that is total gratification.
0:21:16 – I completely agree.
0:21:18 I feel like the impact you make on other people
0:21:20 is such a big part of leadership
0:21:23 and getting motivated as a leader.
0:21:25 Another aspect that you call out in your book
0:21:29 in terms of what makes a good leader is optimism.
0:21:31 And you highlight the power of optimism in a story
0:21:35 with Ernest Shackleton and his crew survival in Antarctica.
0:21:37 Can you share that story with us?
0:21:41 – Ernest Shackleton was a unique individual.
0:21:44 He was born in a family and I can’t remember.
0:21:48 Six daughters and him, the youngest.
0:21:53 And the daughters have a unique impression on him.
0:22:00 And in era 1907, 1910, where the general said jump
0:22:06 and the private had to say how high on the way up,
0:22:10 command and control, he was unique.
0:22:12 Women are unique business people.
0:22:16 And most of them are more compassionate.
0:22:21 Most of them like to ask everybody’s opinion
0:22:23 and how are we going to succeed at this
0:22:26 instead of a command and control situation.
0:22:30 So he was 100 years ahead of his time.
0:22:35 They get stuck in the ice near the South Pole.
0:22:37 They get frozen in.
0:22:41 The ice gets stronger and stronger.
0:22:43 They’re happy in their little boat.
0:22:48 They had food, the warmth and the boat starts to crumble
0:22:51 and they have to get out and live on the ice flow.
0:22:56 And so he had 27 men, they got out on the ice
0:23:00 and they had to live for over a year and a half.
0:23:05 At the end of their journey, every man wrote in their diary.
0:23:09 He was the single greatest leader
0:23:10 they’d ever met in their life.
0:23:15 He put people in tents, two and three people to a tent
0:23:18 and every day he visited each tent
0:23:21 and said, how are we doing?
0:23:22 What’s your thoughts?
0:23:24 What do you suggest we do?
0:23:28 Do we pull our lifeboats and try to get to land?
0:23:29 Do we do this?
0:23:30 Do we do that?
0:23:35 It was a very feminine management trait at that time,
0:23:37 which is very unusual.
0:23:40 And so he brought them all home alive.
0:23:44 By the way, in his diary, he wanted to kill them.
0:23:47 He literally had three or four people
0:23:50 he just wanted to shoot, but he didn’t.
0:23:52 He was one of the greatest leaders
0:23:55 we’ve ever seen in our lifetime.
0:23:59 And every man, and I’m sorry, it was all men,
0:24:01 every man said, this is the greatest leader
0:24:03 I’ve ever worked with.
0:24:08 That’s an amazing story of survival in desperate means,
0:24:11 with not enough food, not enough sunlight,
0:24:14 not enough warmth, and he brought them all home.
0:24:16 – And I know that one of the things that he did
0:24:19 was actually lead by example.
0:24:22 And he was helping them on the ground.
0:24:24 He was very hands-on in making sure
0:24:26 that everybody was gonna be okay
0:24:28 and everything got done that needed to get done
0:24:30 for survival, right?
0:24:33 But I know that bringing it back to modern times,
0:24:35 the more that you scale your business,
0:24:37 when you first start as an entrepreneur,
0:24:39 you’re more hands-on because you’re starting the business
0:24:42 from scratch, you’re involved in everything.
0:24:43 But then as you hire and scale
0:24:45 and hire and scale and hire and scale,
0:24:47 you naturally start to just get more strategic
0:24:48 and less hands-on.
0:24:51 So how can we actually lead by example
0:24:52 as our company scales?
0:24:57 – I have a concept I read about called,
0:24:59 we all carry the boxes.
0:25:04 I felt as a leader that I had to do everything
0:25:08 that my employees did to prove that I’ll work
0:25:09 just as hard as you will.
0:25:15 Had an interesting situation with a black gentleman
0:25:19 that became one of my best friends of my entire life.
0:25:22 I was going on speaking tours five days a week.
0:25:26 I always took some younger people with me
0:25:27 to set up the meeting rooms
0:25:30 and just help set up the autograph booths
0:25:31 and all that stuff.
0:25:35 Since this young gentleman, every place we stopped
0:25:40 and we flew in would grab my briefcase, grab my suitcase.
0:25:41 Let me get that for you, Mr. Linderger.
0:25:44 He was like, I finally looked at him and I said,
0:25:49 “Coron, I’m a man, I can carry my own damn briefcase.”
0:25:55 The last stop of the week was Washington, DC, Dulles.
0:26:00 We were at a Marriott and I had a whole bunch of stuff
0:26:04 I was carrying, briefcase, suitcase, overhead projector
0:26:07 and all this crap and I got to the door.
0:26:09 I said, “Coron, would you get the door for me?”
0:26:11 And he looked at me and he says,
0:26:13 “You’re a man, get your own damn door.”
0:26:19 I knew on that moment he was not scared of me.
0:26:23 I knew at that moment he had a sense of humor
0:26:25 and he just didn’t give a damn.
0:26:29 And he became one of my top officers in my life
0:26:34 and one of his friends because he showed the aptitude of,
0:26:38 “I’m not kissing your butt, you’ll be temperamental with me,
0:26:40 I’ll be temperamental back with you.”
0:26:43 And I was 30 years older than him.
0:26:47 And so when you look for leadership,
0:26:49 you look for people that aren’t afraid.
0:26:51 You look at people that are willing to just grab it
0:26:54 and go for it and he was.
0:26:56 – Let’s hold that thought and take a quick break
0:26:58 with our sponsors.
0:27:01 – Yeah, fam, when I first started this podcast,
0:27:04 my amazing volunteer team helped me out.
0:27:06 But as my business grew,
0:27:09 we needed to hire real talent with real experience.
0:27:12 And it became overwhelming because I’d had to sort through
0:27:14 piles and piles of resumes and interviews.
0:27:17 And then I discovered the easy way to hire quickly.
0:27:18 And that’s Indeed.
0:27:21 Indeed is your go-to matching and hiring platform
0:27:23 where you can find, vet, and lock in the best talent
0:27:25 all in one place.
0:27:27 Stop bouncing around between different job sites
0:27:29 and let Indeed’s matching engine
0:27:31 help you build your dream team.
0:27:33 I’m glad I found Indeed when I did
0:27:34 because hiring now is a breeze.
0:27:36 In fact, in the minute I’ve been talking,
0:27:41 23 hires were made, according to Indeed data worldwide.
0:27:44 A recent survey found that 93% of employers agree
0:27:46 Indeed delivers the highest quality matches
0:27:48 compared to other job sites.
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0:27:57 And the more you use it, the better it gets.
0:27:59 Join the three million businesses worldwide
0:28:01 that use Indeed to hire A players.
0:28:05 And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit
0:28:10 to get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com/profiting.
0:28:13 Just go now to indeed.com/profiting and support our show
0:28:17 by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast.
0:28:20 Indeed.com/profiting, terms and conditions apply.
0:28:23 Need to hire, you need Indeed.
0:28:26 Hey app bam, launching my LinkedIn secrets masterclass
0:28:28 was one of the best decisions that I’ve ever made
0:28:30 for my business.
0:28:32 And I didn’t have to figure out all the nuts and bolts
0:28:35 of creating a website for my course.
0:28:38 I needed a monthly subscription option.
0:28:40 I needed chat capabilities.
0:28:42 I needed a laundry list of features
0:28:46 to enable what I was envisioning with my course.
0:28:47 But here’s the thing, all I had to do
0:28:51 was literally lift a finger to get it all done.
0:28:53 And that’s because I used Shopify.
0:28:59 Shopify is the easiest way to sell anything,
0:29:01 to sell online or in person.
0:29:04 It’s the home of the number one checkout on the planet.
0:29:07 And Shopify is not so secret secret as Shoppay,
0:29:10 which boosts conversions up to 50%.
0:29:12 That means way fewer cards get abandoned
0:29:14 and way more sales get done.
0:29:17 If you’re into growing your business,
0:29:19 your commerce platform better be ready to sell
0:29:23 wherever your customers are scrolling and strolling.
0:29:25 On the web, in your store, in the feed,
0:29:27 and everywhere in between.
0:29:32 Put simply, businesses that sell more sell with Shopify.
0:29:34 Upgrade your business and get the same checkout
0:29:36 we use at YAP Media with Shopify.
0:29:38 Sign up for your $1 per month trial period
0:29:41 at Shopify.com/profiting.
0:29:43 And that’s all lowercase young and profitors,
0:29:47 that’s Shopify.com/profiting.
0:29:51 Go to Shopify.com/profiting to upgrade your selling today,
0:29:53 Shopify.com/profiting.
0:29:55 (bell dings)
0:29:57 – Yeah, fam, if you’re anything like me,
0:29:59 you didn’t start your business
0:30:02 to spend all your time managing finances.
0:30:05 Budgeting, invoicing, and tax prep,
0:30:08 not exactly the fun part of entrepreneurship.
0:30:11 My COO Jason is great at the finance stuff,
0:30:14 but even he doesn’t wanna switch between five different apps
0:30:18 for banking, expense tracking, and contractor payments.
0:30:20 We wanted a tool that could just do it all
0:30:22 and save us our time.
0:30:23 And guess what?
0:30:27 We found that tool, and yes, it’s called Found.
0:30:29 Found is an all-in-one financial tool
0:30:30 made for entrepreneurs.
0:30:33 Found handles everything, business banking,
0:30:35 bookkeeping, invoicing, and vendor payments.
0:30:37 And even tax planning.
0:30:39 No more juggling multiple apps.
0:30:41 Found does it all in one place.
0:30:44 With smart features like automatic expense tracking,
0:30:46 virtual cards for specific budgets,
0:30:49 and no hidden fees or minimum balances,
0:30:52 Found helps us stay organized and save time.
0:30:54 Plus, signing up is quick and easy.
0:30:57 No paperwork or credit checks required.
0:31:01 Join the 500,000 small business owners who trust Found.
0:31:03 Get your business banking working for you.
0:31:06 Try Found for free at found.com/profiting.
0:31:09 Stop getting lost in countless finance apps
0:31:12 and try Found for free at found.com/profiting.
0:31:17 Sign up for Found for free at fond.com/profiting.
0:31:20 Found is a financial technology company, not a bank.
0:31:21 Banking services are provided
0:31:24 by Paramount Bank member FDIC.
0:31:25 Found’s core features are free.
0:31:29 They also offer an optional paid product, Found Plus.
0:31:34 I know building trust and credibility
0:31:37 is so important for team building
0:31:39 and for people to follow you.
0:31:41 What is your best advice for building trust
0:31:43 and credibility with your team?
0:31:45 – The first thing you have to understand is,
0:31:48 loyalty is a two-way street
0:31:52 and loyalty starts at the top going down,
0:31:55 not the down going up.
0:31:59 It is your responsibility to be totally 100% loyal
0:32:01 to your employees.
0:32:06 Herb Kellerher, founder of Southwest Airlines,
0:32:10 gave a speech, I was sitting in the front row,
0:32:14 and he said, “The customer is not always right.”
0:32:17 I said, “If you have a drunk passenger
0:32:20 who is harassing your flight attendants
0:32:22 and being just a mess,
0:32:25 throw him off your fucking airplane.”
0:32:28 He took the side of his employees and said,
0:32:32 “You’re valued to me more than that customer is.
0:32:34 The customer is not always right.
0:32:36 My employees are doing their job.
0:32:39 If they’re right, we don’t want that customer.”
0:32:42 Loyalty starts top down.
0:32:46 If you’re loyal to your employees, your vendors,
0:32:50 your customers, the loyalty will be replayed.
0:32:52 – I know that in your book, you also say,
0:32:54 you have to be fair and responsible
0:32:56 to all your stakeholders, right?
0:32:59 You can’t just only focus on your customers.
0:33:01 You’ve got to think if you’ve got shareholders,
0:33:04 board members, employees, vendors,
0:33:06 there’s so many other people to care about.
0:33:09 So I know there’s a lot of priority balancing.
0:33:12 How do you suggest we handle that?
0:33:15 – Oh, this is controversial.
0:33:18 I think that everybody needs to be treated fair,
0:33:20 but not equal.
0:33:25 So if I have a good franchisee in Canyon City, Colorado,
0:33:30 that has 15 agents,
0:33:33 and that individual calls me and says,
0:33:35 “Dave, will you come to my Christmas party?
0:33:39 Will you come to my New Year’s grand opening?”
0:33:41 And I have to say no.
0:33:44 I have 9,000 offices and I can’t be there,
0:33:49 but I can do a DVD or a hyperlink and say hi to everybody.
0:33:56 If my biggest broker in California has 100 remax offices
0:34:01 and he says, “Can you fly out to my meeting with my agents?”
0:34:04 The answer is, “Hell yes.”
0:34:09 I’m sorry, I can’t go to 15 agents.
0:34:11 I can go to 2,000 agents.
0:34:15 And so you have to start prioritizing the fact of
0:34:18 everybody’s valuable,
0:34:23 but you have such limited personal time
0:34:25 to care for the network.
0:34:27 You have to run the business.
0:34:31 You have to do all the things you have as an entrepreneur,
0:34:33 and you still have to try to have
0:34:36 friendships and personal relationships.
0:34:40 And so fair, but not necessarily equal.
0:34:41 – Such good advice.
0:34:45 You also highlight vulnerability as a leadership strength.
0:34:48 So how do you suggest we be more vulnerable?
0:34:53 – That’s easy, just be who you are.
0:34:56 If you make a mistake, admit it immediately.
0:34:58 Don’t be phony, don’t be false.
0:35:01 Don’t be superhero, don’t be wonder woman.
0:35:06 Just say, “Hey team, I screwed up, I made a mistake.
0:35:11 I’m sincerely sorry I will not make the same mistake twice.”
0:35:16 And it’s amazing, your employees will be very forgiving.
0:35:17 They don’t want you to be God.
0:35:20 They don’t want you to be different than them.
0:35:23 They want to know that you’re a human being.
0:35:25 – I learned something from Howard Behar.
0:35:28 So I interviewed Howard Behar years ago.
0:35:29 He’s the president of Starbucks,
0:35:32 former president of Starbucks for many years.
0:35:33 And he told me something
0:35:34 that I’ll never forget about leadership.
0:35:38 He said, “Only the truth sounds like the truth.”
0:35:40 So he had a period of time
0:35:43 where he had to lay off thousands of employees at once.
0:35:47 And he was debating on what he should tell people.
0:35:48 And his assistant told him,
0:35:51 “Howard, only the truth sounds like the truth.”
0:35:54 And he went into his team and he told them,
0:35:57 “We’ve got to lay people off because of X, Y, Z.”
0:35:58 He just told them the truth.
0:36:01 And everybody was really understanding.
0:36:02 And I never forgot that lesson
0:36:04 because I feel like as a leader,
0:36:06 sometimes you just got to tell the truth.
0:36:08 And people usually will accept it
0:36:12 and be kind about it and understand.
0:36:14 – People are incredibly kind.
0:36:16 They like transparency.
0:36:17 They like honesty.
0:36:20 And the hardest thing in the world is laying people off
0:36:23 because of the economy or whatever it might be.
0:36:25 You’re affecting their lives.
0:36:26 You can’t sugarcoat it.
0:36:32 And I had to do layoffs twice in Remax’s history.
0:36:34 And I’m sorry.
0:36:36 I’m a manly man.
0:36:38 I cried both times.
0:36:43 They knew that I hurt having to lay them off.
0:36:44 – So speaking of Remax,
0:36:46 let’s talk about Remax for a bit
0:36:48 and some of the entrepreneurial things
0:36:50 that you learned along the way.
0:36:52 Can you tell us about how you first came up
0:36:54 with the name of Remax?
0:36:59 – Well, we sat around having shots of tequila,
0:37:02 some salt and wine,
0:37:05 and nobody wanted to call it Dave Leniger real estate.
0:37:07 I thought that was pretty antistical.
0:37:12 And at the time, ESO had just changed the name to Exxon.
0:37:16 They had spent millions of dollars on this trademark,
0:37:19 only to find out it was the foul language
0:37:21 in a different country.
0:37:25 But anyway, it was five letters and a couple slashes
0:37:29 and we sat around, we said, well, Remax,
0:37:31 that’s real estate maximums.
0:37:33 Maximum commission to the agent,
0:37:34 maximum service to the customer
0:37:37 with no part timers or beginners,
0:37:39 maximum profit for the broker owner.
0:37:41 And we came up with RE Max.
0:37:42 And we looked at that and said,
0:37:47 “Yeah, somebody’s gonna think there’s a Mr. or Mrs. RE Max.”
0:37:52 We took the periods out through a slash and five Vietnam vets.
0:37:55 So we had a red, white and blue sign.
0:37:58 Oh, a lot of market research went into this.
0:38:03 – Your balloon logo is one of the most recognizable logos
0:38:04 in the world.
0:38:06 So you, as an entrepreneur,
0:38:08 were really good at recognizing opportunity.
0:38:12 Can you talk about how you disrupted the business model
0:38:14 that was traditionally in real estate
0:38:15 and how you disrupted it?
0:38:19 – In 1973, the traditional commission split
0:38:21 between the real estate agent
0:38:24 and the owner of the office was 50/50.
0:38:29 The owner of the office used their 50%
0:38:32 to pay overhead, marketing, secretaries, rent, et cetera,
0:38:34 and make a profit.
0:38:36 The agent, they had their 50%,
0:38:38 but they had to pay for their automobile.
0:38:42 Nobody pays for retirement for real estate agents.
0:38:46 Nobody pays for social security or insurance or whatever.
0:38:51 And so in reality, real estate agent never did make 50/50.
0:38:54 After paying their own personal expenses and stuff,
0:38:59 they were more like, I don’t know, 80/20 or 75/25.
0:39:02 And so we looked at it and said,
0:39:05 “Why not have an office like a group of doctors,
0:39:08 lawyers, architects, or dentists
0:39:12 that shares office space, pays their own personal expenses,
0:39:13 and they’re part of the office space
0:39:16 and keeps the majority for themselves.
0:39:18 Cheaper than going into business for yourself.”
0:39:23 And the end result was, as we started the company,
0:39:25 the split changed about 85/15.
0:39:29 So very controversial.
0:39:32 The industry hated it, they hated me.
0:39:37 Today I’m an icon, but I outlived everybody
0:39:40 because they were all in their 40s and 50s
0:39:42 when they were trying to drive me out of business.
0:39:44 And so as a model,
0:39:46 we changed the entire real estate industry’s
0:39:48 commission splits.
0:39:50 – Yeah, and something else that you did differently
0:39:54 is that your perspective of who the customer was changed.
0:39:57 So originally the customer was the buyer, the seller,
0:40:00 and now the customer was the agent.
0:40:02 Can you tell us more about that?
0:40:05 – I decided that I was not in the real estate business.
0:40:07 I was in the real estate agent business.
0:40:10 And my job was to create an environment
0:40:13 where real estate agents could be more successful
0:40:15 than any place else in the world.
0:40:18 They were in the real estate business.
0:40:21 They handled the buyers and sellers.
0:40:24 We stuck with that for 50-some years.
0:40:26 It is the backbone of our company.
0:40:30 Our average agent has twice experience
0:40:32 and three times the sales volume
0:40:34 of other full-time realtors in the world.
0:40:37 And it worked.
0:40:40 – Now, how can people outside of the real estate industry
0:40:44 took what you did and leverage it for their industry?
0:40:48 – As we started to expand remax from Colorado
0:40:52 with an amazing success story after five years,
0:40:54 and we went into the various markets,
0:40:57 and we went to Atlanta and they said,
0:41:00 “Well, we don’t steal each other’s agents down here.
0:41:02 “We’re kind of genteel.”
0:41:05 And we went to Chicago and they said,
0:41:06 “You guys are cowboys.
0:41:09 “You were cowboy clothes and blue jeans.
0:41:10 “We’re sophisticated.
0:41:12 “We have coats and ties.”
0:41:14 Went to Quebec.
0:41:17 They said, “You don’t even speak French.”
0:41:19 So everybody said, “We’re different.
0:41:21 “We’re different. We’re different.”
0:41:23 And as we went around the world,
0:41:26 every country is different.
0:41:27 We’re in socialist countries.
0:41:29 We’re in communist countries.
0:41:31 We’re in democracies.
0:41:35 We’re in countries that 80% of the countries
0:41:38 wherein don’t even have a multiple listening service
0:41:43 or realtors, and everybody keeps saying, “We’re different.”
0:41:45 And every country we went to,
0:41:47 we became incredibly successful.
0:41:50 And the thing that’s fascinating about the success was,
0:41:53 I couldn’t figure out why, with all the differences.
0:41:55 And it finally came down to,
0:41:58 human beings have some common,
0:42:02 commonalities, if you will, human beings want.
0:42:06 We want to raise our children to our moral standards
0:42:10 and our religious beliefs, not somebody else’s.
0:42:12 We want to make more money so that we can provide
0:42:17 elder care or childcare or provide for our children.
0:42:21 We want to do our business our way.
0:42:23 I want to do what I want to do,
0:42:24 when I want to do it, where I want to do it,
0:42:27 how I want to do it, and with who I want to do it.
0:42:30 So I had nothing to do with the commission split,
0:42:33 working in 110 countries.
0:42:37 It had everything to do with a leadership concept of,
0:42:40 I have one job in this real state office.
0:42:44 I’m not here to motivate you to become more successful.
0:42:46 I can put a gun to your head and say, stand up.
0:42:48 If you don’t stand up, you’re an idiot.
0:42:50 Minute the police take me away,
0:42:51 you never had to think about me again.
0:42:54 My job as a leader, for any person
0:42:57 that’s listening to this podcast,
0:43:00 your job is to create an environment
0:43:03 where the people that work for you
0:43:06 can achieve the level of success they want.
0:43:10 We had 100% Club 73 make $100,000 a year,
0:43:14 which is unreal figure at that time.
0:43:17 And I couldn’t figure out, why in the world
0:43:20 didn’t everybody want to work that hard?
0:43:22 It took me about 10 years to figure it out.
0:43:26 And there are people who are very happy at age 60
0:43:29 are not going to work 18 hour days anymore.
0:43:32 They’ve got good clients, they got referrals,
0:43:34 and they want to have time to golf
0:43:36 and be with the grandkids,
0:43:39 and they’re happy making $60,000 a year.
0:43:42 And so it finally dawned on me,
0:43:44 that’s not my responsibility to say,
0:43:47 everybody should make $100,000 or $200,000 a year.
0:43:50 I’m supposed to create an environment
0:43:54 where they can achieve the level of success they want.
0:43:55 Period.
0:43:57 – I love that you called that out.
0:43:59 I literally had in quotes to say next,
0:44:01 our job as a leader isn’t about getting everything
0:44:03 we can from somebody.
0:44:04 It’s about creating an environment
0:44:07 in which people can achieve as much as they want.
0:44:09 That is so powerful.
0:44:11 So aside from payment structure,
0:44:14 so I know that you really change the game
0:44:17 in terms of the amount of commission that people make,
0:44:19 where if they sell more, they make more.
0:44:21 Aside from the payment structure,
0:44:22 how are you creating an environment
0:44:25 in which people can achieve as much as they want?
0:44:29 – If he read the book, I talked about leadership.
0:44:33 And the number one most important factor of a leader
0:44:35 is the leader sells hope.
0:44:38 I don’t care if it’s Martin Luther King,
0:44:42 he’s talking to brown and white people
0:44:45 of our children can do better, they can be equal.
0:44:47 We can live in the same neighborhoods,
0:44:49 we can have the same advantages.
0:44:54 And he was nonviolent and he tried to preach,
0:44:56 there’s hope in the future for us.
0:44:58 If you go back to Reagan,
0:45:02 Reagan said, make America great.
0:45:04 The only thing Trump did was say,
0:45:06 make America great again.
0:45:09 Hillary said, stronger with Hillary.
0:45:10 Nobody gave a damn.
0:45:15 Obama had one word, hope, and he won.
0:45:19 And so great leaders have to be optimistic,
0:45:21 but they have to have a dream.
0:45:25 And they have to sell to their followers
0:45:30 that we together will have a better life together.
0:45:33 And so as an entrepreneur,
0:45:36 I had dozens of people who tried to hire
0:45:40 my officers away from me in the ’70s and ’80s and ’90s,
0:45:43 offering them twice what they could make.
0:45:46 And they never left ’cause we had our dream together.
0:45:52 And we had this optimism that we would change the world.
0:45:53 And we did.
0:45:56 – We’ll be right back after a quick break from our sponsors.
0:46:00 (whooshing)
0:46:06 So I know one of your mentors was Dave Stone.
0:46:08 And you said that his mentorship
0:46:10 was really instrumental in your early success.
0:46:13 What were some of the key lessons and strategies
0:46:14 that you learned from Dave
0:46:17 that you then carried on throughout your career?
0:46:19 – I had been licensed for six months.
0:46:23 I had no intention of being a real estate agent.
0:46:25 I was buying investment properties,
0:46:29 but I got a license to maybe save the commission.
0:46:32 And I looked around at these old people in my office.
0:46:35 I was still in the military, and they were old.
0:46:39 I mean, some of them, 40, 50, 60 years old,
0:46:42 and they’d make a deal once every three or four months.
0:46:44 And I thought, man, I could do this.
0:46:48 And six months into it, crew cut haircut, 130 pounds,
0:46:51 Volkswagen with a crack windshield
0:46:55 and no air conditioning in Phoenix.
0:46:59 And in the summer, and not one deal, I quit.
0:47:02 I got my little cardboard box.
0:47:03 My manager stood there and said,
0:47:05 “I didn’t think you would ever make it.”
0:47:08 And I said, “Well, why the hell did you hire me?”
0:47:10 And he says, “We’re in the real estate business.
0:47:11 “Everybody’s got a mother, a brother,
0:47:13 “a next door neighbor, and a best friend.
0:47:16 “You never know when you can get a deal.”
0:47:21 I’d paid to go to Dave Stone’s seminar, $25.
0:47:26 This is, God, 19, I don’t know, ’67, ’68, whatever it was,
0:47:30 Mountain Shadows, Country Club in Scottsdale.
0:47:34 I went, I sat in the front row, even though I’d quit.
0:47:36 And he was mesmerizing.
0:47:38 He was so smooth.
0:47:39 He was so cool.
0:47:42 He had a gift to gab for everything.
0:47:44 And he was talking about how to handle objections,
0:47:46 how to do this, how to do that.
0:47:48 And I’m sitting there, every break,
0:47:52 and I jumped up and grabbed his hand, like an idiot.
0:47:53 Groupie.
0:47:57 And I said, “Oh, oh my God, Mr. Stone, that’s fascinating.
0:48:02 “Man, if I had your gift, I could be a success.”
0:48:03 He says, “How long have you been trying?”
0:48:04 And I said, “Six months.”
0:48:06 And he says, “Well, how many deals have you got?”
0:48:08 And I said, “None.”
0:48:10 And he says, “If I were you, I’d quit.”
0:48:11 (laughing)
0:48:14 And I said, “I did, but I’m going back.
0:48:15 “I’m going back to work today.
0:48:18 “I can do this, strange world.
0:48:20 “I’m going home that night.
0:48:23 “My stupid Volkswagen with a cracked windshield
0:48:25 “and no air conditioning.”
0:48:29 Latino girl, probably about 20 or 21,
0:48:32 is talking to her father, half English, half Spanish.
0:48:35 I stopped in to get a gallon of milk for the kids.
0:48:38 And I said, “Excuse me, are you talking about real estate?”
0:48:41 She says, “My father’s moving to Albuquerque
0:48:43 “and we need to sell his house,
0:48:45 “but we don’t know how to do that.”
0:48:47 And I looked at him and I said, “Senor,
0:48:49 “do you know how much a real estate commission is?”
0:48:51 And he said, “No, Lord, come friend to me,
0:48:53 “or something, I don’t know what he said.”
0:48:55 I said, “Do you know what title insurance is?
0:48:57 “No, Lord, come friend to me.”
0:48:59 I said, “He needs me.
0:49:00 “I’m a realtor.”
0:49:02 I followed him home.
0:49:07 I listed the house on, this is terrible, $10,500.
0:49:10 That house today would be $207,000.
0:49:13 Two full price offers that night.
0:49:16 The next morning, I’m laying in bed with my wife,
0:49:19 slapped her on her bottom and say, “Wake up.”
0:49:20 And she says, “What?
0:49:23 “You’re sleeping with one hell of a fine realtor, man.
0:49:26 “100% of my listings have sold for full price
0:49:27 “in less than two hours.”
0:49:34 That day, I took the girl and her fiance
0:49:36 and sold them a house.
0:49:38 That afternoon, I sold their best friends a house.
0:49:42 And the next morning, I sold their friends a house.
0:49:44 So in basically 48 hours,
0:49:50 I had sold a single-angle person a house.
0:49:52 The girls hugged me and kissed me and said,
0:49:55 “Oh my God, my parents don’t even own a house
0:49:58 “and we now own a house.”
0:50:01 And the guys slapped me on the back and shook hands
0:50:04 and said, “Hey, amigo, this is fabulous.
0:50:06 “My parents don’t own a house.”
0:50:07 It was a set.
0:50:12 I did 365 transactions part-time,
0:50:16 still in the military in the next 365 days.
0:50:20 The only difference was those four customers
0:50:23 gave me the confidence to be able to look at the next customer
0:50:26 and say, “Well, I’ve made three deals this week.
0:50:30 “The same Volkswagen with a crack windshield,
0:50:34 “the same 135-pound combat soldier,
0:50:38 “and overnight, stone changed my life.”
0:50:40 He gave me the confidence.
0:50:42 I followed him.
0:50:44 He helped me design remax when I designed it.
0:50:49 He gave me a 300-page manual on why it would never work
0:50:51 and a 20-page attachment that said,
0:50:54 “But if you do this and this and this, you will.”
0:50:56 And I was very fortunate.
0:50:59 I had this unbelievable, remarkable man
0:51:01 that changed my life.
0:51:04 – And how did you get him to be your mentor
0:51:05 if you were struggling?
0:51:07 Like, what were the ways that you actually got him
0:51:08 to be your mentor?
0:51:10 – I was so aggressive.
0:51:13 I was just a groupie.
0:51:17 He had to look at me and think, “You idiots.”
0:51:21 But I pushed it, I pushed it, I pushed it,
0:51:25 and ended up becoming one of the best friends of my life.
0:51:27 – I have a similar story.
0:51:29 When I was first starting out in podcasting,
0:51:32 I went after literally the top podcaster in my field,
0:51:35 Jordan Harbinger, and I would just send him stuff.
0:51:36 Information that I had showed him
0:51:37 that I was working hard, working hard.
0:51:40 And finally, he started helping me.
0:51:41 So that’s how you have to do it.
0:51:44 You have to show that you’re really, really eager
0:51:46 and you really, really want the help
0:51:48 and you’re willing to work hard for it.
0:51:51 – Lots of people will ask me to mentor them.
0:51:54 And as you get older, you’re very young.
0:51:59 But as you get older, you start measuring your hours
0:52:01 and saying, “What’s important to me?”
0:52:04 And what’s important to me is giving a hand down
0:52:07 to help the next person get up the mountain.
0:52:10 And so many people have been kind to me in my life.
0:52:15 And so that becomes part of what do you want to do as a mentor?
0:52:19 The problem with being a mentor is nine out of 10 people
0:52:24 would nod and take notes and smile, but they won’t execute.
0:52:28 They’ll ask you for advice and you tell them the advice
0:52:30 and they say, “Oh, that’s wonderful.”
0:52:32 And they won’t execute the next day.
0:52:34 And so you get to the point
0:52:36 where you don’t want to mentor people
0:52:38 because you’re wasting my time.
0:52:41 – I prefer for people to intern for me now
0:52:43 if they want my mentorship
0:52:45 because I feel like that’s the way that I can teach them
0:52:47 and it’s mutually valuable.
0:52:48 And then they can move on if they want to move on
0:52:50 or get hired if they want to get hired.
0:52:53 That’s my preference now.
0:52:55 Let’s move on to strategy, hiring and firing.
0:52:57 I know we don’t have that much time left,
0:52:58 but I definitely want to understand
0:53:02 what is your strategy around hiring and firing at Remax?
0:53:05 – Firing is tough.
0:53:09 I used to brag for 38 years,
0:53:12 not one individual had left Remax
0:53:15 as one of my officers on their own.
0:53:18 I didn’t fire anybody.
0:53:22 I took a seminar, can’t remember where,
0:53:26 and it was the first time we think
0:53:28 that you ought to fire somebody
0:53:30 is the day you should fire them.
0:53:32 And yet if you’re a rotor
0:53:34 or you’re a salesperson or an entrepreneur,
0:53:36 you want to be liked.
0:53:40 And so you’ll tolerate nonsense from idiots.
0:53:45 And the day you finally have the guts to fire somebody,
0:53:47 the next morning you get up and say,
0:53:50 “Why the hell didn’t I do that 10 years ago?”
0:53:53 So the problem with me was my officers
0:53:56 traveled with me constantly.
0:53:59 We did 200 and some speaking days a year
0:54:01 and officers went with me.
0:54:03 We had breakfast together, lunch together,
0:54:06 dinner and flights together and cocktails.
0:54:09 And we went to each other’s marriages and divorces
0:54:14 and cancer with their parents and our funerals and whatever.
0:54:18 It’s hard when you’re close friends with everybody.
0:54:22 So I took this course and I came home to Gale
0:54:25 and I said, “We got four of these guys
0:54:27 that I’ve worked with for years
0:54:32 and they don’t have fire on the belly anymore.
0:54:35 They feel entitled, they’ve been here 25 years.
0:54:37 I don’t have to work that hard.”
0:54:40 And I said, “You and I still work this hard.
0:54:42 I’ve got to solve this problem.”
0:54:46 She and I brainstormed and role played.
0:54:49 And I called each one in individually and I said,
0:54:52 “Hi, it’s time for a serious conversation.
0:54:54 I’ve talked to you for two years
0:54:56 about I don’t think you’ve got the fire on the belly
0:54:59 and I don’t think you care about the network like we do.”
0:55:04 And so I’ve made a decision and that decision is,
0:55:08 I can fire you and give you a two week severance package
0:55:12 or you can resign and I’ll give you
0:55:15 a one year severance package, which do you want?
0:55:19 And that starts the argument of, “No, no, no, no.
0:55:20 You don’t understand me.
0:55:21 I really work hard.”
0:55:23 I said, “Nope, I’m sorry.
0:55:25 My decision has been made.
0:55:26 I’m done.”
0:55:29 This is your decision.
0:55:31 Two week severance and I fire you
0:55:37 or you resign and I’ll give you a year severance.
0:55:38 All four of them took it.
0:55:42 The next day was a company-wide meeting
0:55:45 for the employees at headquarters, 400 people.
0:55:48 We do the meeting, we put out the awards
0:55:50 and talk about the updates and the end.
0:55:54 I always said, “Are there any questions for me?”
0:55:56 So I’m fairly conservative.
0:56:00 I have a very liberal left-wing Democrat
0:56:05 in the editorial staff and he stood up and he says,
0:56:09 “Dave, what the hell did he have on you
0:56:11 that you didn’t fire him 10 years ago?”
0:56:15 And now I’m in front of 400 people and I said,
0:56:18 “I didn’t have the personal courage
0:56:20 to be the leader that you deserved.”
0:56:23 And that I finally realized
0:56:27 that when I don’t fire somebody that’s incompetent,
0:56:29 I hire three groups of people.
0:56:31 I hired the individual ’cause they’re pigeonholed.
0:56:32 I’m never gonna promote them
0:56:34 or I give them another pay raise.
0:56:36 I hired the people that worked for them
0:56:39 ’cause they know that person’s an idiot.
0:56:41 And I heard myself and my shareholders
0:56:44 because I didn’t have the personal courage
0:56:47 to face up to a friendship challenge
0:56:50 of we were no longer a good fit together
0:56:52 and the room applauded.
0:56:54 I was vulnerable.
0:56:55 I said it was my mistake.
0:56:58 It’s my fault and they accepted it.
0:57:02 So when you talk about leadership concepts,
0:57:05 firing is the most important thing you can do.
0:57:10 If you have somebody that’s abusing, nasty,
0:57:15 just unkind to their employees, you’re tolerating that.
0:57:19 The fact that you don’t make a decision
0:57:20 is you made the decision.
0:57:22 If you can’t make the decision, fire ’em.
0:57:26 You’ve made the decision, I’ll put up with her crap.
0:57:27 – It’s so true.
0:57:29 – It’s a tough deal.
0:57:32 That’s why we get paid the big paycheck, right?
0:57:36 And so when you talk about leadership,
0:57:38 that’s the hardest thing.
0:57:43 Hiring, you should hire very, very slow
0:57:45 and fire very, very fast.
0:57:47 – Yeah, with hiring, I love something
0:57:50 that you mentioned in the book about hiring salespeople
0:57:52 that I just wanted to touch on before we go.
0:57:56 You said to hire both hunters and farmers, which I love.
0:57:58 So tell us about that.
0:58:02 – In the sales field, there are hunters and farmers.
0:58:04 The hunters live for the kill.
0:58:06 They wanna go out, kill something,
0:58:09 put it over their shoulder, bring it back to TP
0:58:10 and put it on the ground and say,
0:58:12 “Hey, let’s have some food.”
0:58:14 And they wanna go out and hunt again.
0:58:19 Farmers, they are slow, methodical.
0:58:21 They wanna build relationships.
0:58:24 They wanna a lifetime experience with this individual.
0:58:27 You need both salespeople.
0:58:31 You need farmers that will have the patience
0:58:36 to build relationships over periods and periods of years.
0:58:37 But you still gotta have the hunters
0:58:40 that can go out and score the kill.
0:58:42 – Dave, this was such an awesome conversation.
0:58:43 I feel like we learned so much
0:58:46 about your own personal entrepreneurship journey
0:58:48 and as well as your leadership principles
0:58:49 and everything like that.
0:58:51 I always end my show with two questions
0:58:52 that I ask all of my guests
0:58:55 and this can be outside of everything
0:58:55 that we talked about today.
0:58:58 Just answer from your heart.
0:59:01 The first one is what is one actionable thing
0:59:03 our young and profitors can do today
0:59:06 to become more profitable tomorrow?
0:59:08 – I think the most actionable thing is
0:59:11 you have to be a lifelong learner.
0:59:13 One of the biggest deficiencies I’ve seen
0:59:16 and many of the officers that I’ve hired
0:59:18 is they got their college degree.
0:59:19 They know it all.
0:59:20 They don’t buy a book.
0:59:22 If they buy a book, it’s fiction
0:59:24 and they don’t continue to study
0:59:27 and find out how do I build my business?
0:59:30 How do I build my life?
0:59:33 That’s the most important aspect of
0:59:36 the most successful people I’ve mentored are sponges.
0:59:39 They won’t learn from everybody, everything they can
0:59:41 and they will execute.
0:59:43 – And I know you’re a huge, huge reader.
0:59:45 So what recommendations do you have
0:59:48 in terms of books that us entrepreneurs read?
0:59:51 The old classic is “Think and Grow Rich”
0:59:53 – Yeah, I love it. – by Napoleon Hill.
0:59:57 It is tried, it’s tired.
0:59:59 Half the book is worthless.
1:00:01 The first half is pretty darn good.
1:00:05 I think the best book out there
1:00:09 is “Success Principles” by Jack Canfield
1:00:12 and it is a fabulous book.
1:00:15 It’s big, it’s six, 700 pages,
1:00:18 but it’s three to four page chapters
1:00:21 that you can pick and choose what you wanna learn from.
1:00:23 It’s very motivational.
1:00:28 The other thing is “The Compound Effect” by Darren Hardy
1:00:33 and it is little steps done repeatedly over years
1:00:37 gives you amazing results.
1:00:40 And the final one would be “Kaizen”
1:00:44 and that’s the Japanese concept of 1% improvement
1:00:47 of 100 things every day
1:00:50 and not 100% improvement once a year.
1:00:52 – I’m gonna make it my mission
1:00:55 to read all four of those books by the end of the year.
1:00:56 Thanks to you.
1:00:57 And what would you say?
1:01:00 This is the last and final question.
1:01:03 What is your secret to profiting in life?
1:01:08 – Profiting in life is what is your goal?
1:01:13 And so if your goal was to reach 65 and retire
1:01:17 and go fishing, then you’ve been successful.
1:01:19 I have an interesting company right now.
1:01:22 It’s called PortaSubs.
1:01:25 It’s a sub sandwich company.
1:01:29 The highest best quality sub sandwich in the world
1:01:33 is based really in Nevada with a couple of joining states.
1:01:36 And I bought it from the guy that retired
1:01:40 but I’m developing it very rapidly.
1:01:43 And regional developer model, we get 20-some regions sold,
1:01:46 we’re gonna expand, we’ll be worldwide in no time at all.
1:01:50 The thing that was fascinating to me about it
1:01:54 was in the real estate business, I change,
1:01:57 I should say Gail and I change the world
1:01:58 because we hired women.
1:02:02 And in ’73, that was not popular.
1:02:04 The part-time housewife was like,
1:02:06 “Well, they’re not serious about the business.
1:02:08 “They’re taking jobs away from a white man.”
1:02:09 All of the crap.
1:02:13 It was an old white man’s white-haired deal.
1:02:15 So we changed a lot of lives,
1:02:17 but we changed it with women.
1:02:20 Eventually, we changed it multicultural
1:02:23 as we became big and successful.
1:02:25 PortaSubs is amazing.
1:02:30 It’s much less expensive to start a sub sandwich shop
1:02:33 than it is to start a McDonald’s for $10 million.
1:02:37 And it is a chance for multiculturals
1:02:42 to get their foot into private ownership of an enterprise.
1:02:47 And so 65% of our franchisees are multicultural.
1:02:52 In most cases, the first person in the family
1:02:56 to own a business, and it’s been around 50 years.
1:03:00 And so we have multicultural people whose children
1:03:03 are the first children in their family to go to college
1:03:06 and are now taking over the business.
1:03:10 And so to me, entrepreneurship is about
1:03:12 getting a chance to get your foot in the door.
1:03:17 And so a lot of times, the first generation are immigrants.
1:03:20 They may be a teacher or a doctor in a foreign country
1:03:22 that can’t do that here.
1:03:27 And so they become a janitor or whatever or a carpenter.
1:03:30 Second generation usually is one of the trades.
1:03:34 And the third generation are small business owners
1:03:35 that are hiring the trades.
1:03:38 It is a wonderful evolution of people
1:03:41 having a chance to build family wealth.
1:03:43 – Well, Dave, thank you so much.
1:03:46 I feel like you gave so much information,
1:03:47 your wealth of knowledge.
1:03:48 I’m so happy that you’re giving back
1:03:50 and building this legacy.
1:03:51 Your book was so wonderful.
1:03:53 Where can everybody learn more about you
1:03:54 and everything that you do?
1:03:56 – DaveLenniger.com.
1:03:58 You can follow me along there.
1:04:01 There’s all kinds of things like God knows what,
1:04:03 Facebook, Instagram, et cetera, et cetera.
1:04:06 But it’s a pleasure to be able to give back
1:04:10 and maybe help the next person one more step up.
1:04:12 – Thank you so much, Dave.
1:04:13 – You’re a delight.
1:04:14 Thank you, FOMOX.
1:04:17 (upbeat music)
1:04:21 – Yeah, bam, I really am blessed to have this job.
1:04:24 I love my job because it’s so amazing to speak
1:04:28 with true business legends like Dave Lenniger.
1:04:31 I got to hear the story behind a company like Remax,
1:04:33 how it got its start, how it’s scaled,
1:04:36 and how it’s turned itself into an iconic brand.
1:04:38 Dave has lived and breathed
1:04:40 being an entrepreneur for decades now
1:04:44 and has experienced the highs and the lows that go with that.
1:04:45 I loved hearing the question he likes
1:04:47 to ask other entrepreneurs
1:04:49 when he’s considering to invest in their company.
1:04:52 Why are you starting this business?
1:04:54 It’s a simple question, but it’s an answer
1:04:56 that can tell you everything you need to know
1:04:59 about somebody’s motivations, their drive,
1:05:01 and whether they have a chance at succeeding.
1:05:05 Like Simon Sinek always says, “What’s your why?”
1:05:08 Dave also knows a few things about when and when not to
1:05:10 take feedback as a leader.
1:05:12 Be willing to accept criticism,
1:05:14 but also be strong enough to believe in yourself
1:05:17 and discard feedback that’s not helpful.
1:05:19 Dave also learned the hard way
1:05:22 why sometimes you have to fire a low-performing employee.
1:05:25 If you don’t, you’re hurting three groups of people,
1:05:27 that employee who you will never promote,
1:05:29 the people who work with them
1:05:31 and who know that that person can’t do their job
1:05:33 and so it brings them down.
1:05:35 And finally, yourself and your company,
1:05:38 because their continued presence at your company
1:05:40 shows you that you don’t have the courage
1:05:42 to make a tough decision.
1:05:46 And that will definitely impact your confidence.
1:05:48 After all, leadership, as Dave put it,
1:05:51 is really the impact that you have on others.
1:05:53 It’s not about getting everything that you want,
1:05:55 it’s about creating an environment
1:05:58 in which others can achieve what they want.
1:06:01 Thanks for listening to this episode of Young and Profiting.
1:06:03 If you wanna have an impact on others
1:06:05 by sharing some of these leadership lessons
1:06:07 that you learned today on the podcast,
1:06:09 then please share this episode with somebody
1:06:14 who could use it, spread this podcast by word of mouth.
1:06:16 And if you did enjoy this show and you learned something,
1:06:18 then take a couple minutes and drop us a review
1:06:22 on Apple Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcast.
1:06:24 Guys, I’m not lying when I say
1:06:26 that I check my reviews every day.
1:06:30 This is a platform that does not have two-way communication.
1:06:32 It’s not like social media where you guys can DM me
1:06:33 or comment.
1:06:35 The only way that I know that you guys are really listening
1:06:39 and appreciating the show is by writing me a review.
1:06:40 I check them out all the time.
1:06:43 I wanna know the good, I wanna know the bad.
1:06:45 Tell me what you think about the show.
1:06:48 And if you prefer to watch your podcasts as videos,
1:06:49 you can find me on YouTube.
1:06:51 Just look up the show, Young and Profiting.
1:06:53 You’ll find all of our episodes on there.
1:06:54 If you wanna find me on Instagram,
1:06:58 it’s Yap with Hala, Y-A-P with Hala.
1:07:00 Or LinkedIn, search my name, it’s Hala Taha.
1:07:02 And I, of course, wanna take a minute
1:07:05 to shout out my amazing production team.
1:07:07 Thank you guys so much for all your hard work,
1:07:08 all your dedication.
1:07:10 You make the show what it is.
1:07:11 This is your host, Hala Taha,
1:07:14 AKA The Podcast Princess, signing off.
1:07:17 (upbeat music)
1:07:20 (upbeat music)
1:07:22 (upbeat music)
1:07:26 (upbeat music)
1:07:35 [BLANK_AUDIO]