AI transcript
I watched this grenade come over the wall and it’s like I can see it for a second.
It disappeared, I can see it for a second, and it was like time absolutely stood still.
And when I was in this blackness of not seeing and not hearing,
I knew absolutely that this is death.
I had mental issues, I had emotional issues, I had real physical issues.
I was a complete psychopath.
And when I got out, I thought social media and content creation was just kind of fascinating.
How did you decide that was a worthy way to spend your life?
If you create the right thing at the right time, it’s at a lottery ticket,
and it goes viral and then it’s your chance at that point to capitalize in whatever way you want to.
I was obsessed with it.
So despite the many failures over the course of probably six months or so,
maybe a year of just awful cringe videos that went nowhere on a whim,
I was like, you know what, I’m just going to shoot a quick video,
and I leave my phone in the room for a couple of hours, come back,
and I couldn’t even open my phone.
And it had over five million views in a matter of a few hours.
So you built this empire quickly.
I went into this feverish, like, constantly telling stories on TikTok,
three a day for 30 days, and then lived up to like seven million subscribers on TikTok,
and then shifted to YouTube, and here we are.
What’s one thing you teach me to make me a better storytelling?
It’s something that people love and hate, and you’re going to tell a story.
I feel like I can rule the world.
I know I could be what I want to.
I put my all in it like the days off on a roller coaster.
Sean, have you ever seen the Mr. Bullen channel before, like, I asked you if he should come on?
No, when I found out you were coming on as a guest,
that’s when the research started, and I went to your TikTok first,
and then I went to YouTube, and then I started watching some other stuff.
But I love the genre, but I’m not, like, crazy about it.
My brother-in-law is nuts about these spooky stories.
He does something I don’t even understand.
You got to explain this to me.
There’s apparently a YouTube channel that takes spooky stories from Reddit
and then reads it, like, text-to-speech, like, robotic text-to-speech,
and he’ll listen to this thing for like two hours straight.
I can’t believe that he does this, but when I saw that, I was like,
“Oh, that’s like people who are far on the deep end of loving this type of content.”
I’ve definitely have done, like, on a Saturday where I’ve got a due chores or something like that
and run errands.
I’ve done a six- to eight-hour marathon of Mr. Bolland.
What’s your consumption rate on your channel right now?
Is it just through the roof?
That’s a Nick question.
So Nick, Nick does everything with the exception of telling the stories on camera.
I’m, like, completely out of the loop with virtually everything else.
I just sit down and tell stories, and Nick is the guy for literally every other question
in terms of, like, growth of the channel, like, metrics.
That’s Nick. That’s Nick’s wheelhouse.
Dude, that’s nirvana for content.
Oh, dude.
Where you can just sit down, you just record, and then you disappear, and everything else
happens magically.
Yeah.
Every content creator wants that.
I will get to this, but he came in when I didn’t know how to, like, grow my channel
beyond just me, and, like, I was so burned out.
Nick came in when it was me, and I think I had an editor and maybe, like, a topic finder,
and that was overwhelming for me.
You know, it’s like, I was deleting all emails that came in.
People try to, like, do business with me.
I just delete everything, so I had no idea how to, like, figure out if it was good or
not.
And Nick came in and was like, “Yo, dude, I’ll help you.”
And he grew the business.
How big were you when that happened?
We were, like, significant on YouTube, but I personally was at a place where I was just
jumping in.
I mean, it took me about 26 hours, give or take, to make one video in the first six months
I was on YouTube, and I was doing anywhere from three to five videos a week.
And at the same time, you know, I’m married.
I have three young kids.
I completely was negligent in all duties besides content.
My wife is a saint and picked up everything else.
But I was doing, you know, I mean, do the math.
27, like, over 100 hours of just constant grinding, like, at all hours.
And so even though the channel was, you know, in the millions, and we were, you know, by
all accounts, had, like, made it as a YouTube channel, I was so close to being like, “Dude,
this ain’t worth it.
Like, I’m in my 30s.
I have a family.
Like, I’ve done well for myself.
But this is, like, the worst thing ever.”
And it was around that time that I’m like, “Maybe all those people that are emailing me, maybe
they can offer something that will help me, like, grow.”
Because I swear to God, I was just mass deleting emails because it was so stressful.
Like, people that were, like, trying to pitch me, and I saw an email come through that was
like, you know, “Fellow Combat Veteran Here to Health.”
And I had, like, I’m a military guy, and I’m immediately like, “Okay, this guy I could
talk to.
I don’t know who he is.
I don’t know what he means by health.”
But I opened his email and he’s like, “Yeah, you know, I’m a day-to-day manager with Mr.
Beast.
I have experience and traditional talent.
Yeah, I’m not looking to sign you, not looking to really do anything, but I just saw, you
know, your vet.
It’s rare in the space, and I’d be happy to help.”
And so, like, I immediately hit him up, and I’m like, “I don’t know you, but my life’s
falling apart here, man.
Like, I’ve got all this great stuff happening with YouTube, but I can’t manage it.
Like, I’m losing my mind.”
And so that began what turned out to be the reason that the Mr. Ball and Thing did not
fade into obscurity.
I mean, I’m a great storyteller, but I cannot grow a business.
I couldn’t have done this longer than, like, literally that month.
I remember talking to my wife and being like, “I just don’t know if this is worth it.”
But Nick came in, and I handed the reins of virtually everything over to Nick, and he
scaled the company.
We have, like, 50-plus employees now, we’ve got a slate of shows.
I show up to the studio, and just somebody else hits record, and I just tell stories,
and I leave because of Nick.
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The thing to Johnny, it’s like every creator on the planet, it’s like you start it all
by yourself.
Everything lives and dies on their shoulders, and so even just letting someone in to tweak
a title or give advice on a thumbnail is just like the highest level of anxiety that creators
can have, too.
Did he say that you were working with Mr. Beast before that?
Yeah, yeah.
So I got hired to be the right hand for the CEO over at Night Media.
And so Reid was Jimmy’s main manager, and I got recruited to go be Jimmy’s number two
or Reid’s number two, and I was running day to day with Mr. Beast.
And before that, I had no clue about anything on YouTube.
So I was learning everything from Michael Jordan of YouTube, and then I was applying
it in real time in real practice.
And before that, I was in law school, became a lawyer, did a military stand.
So Nick also, when he got out of the military, so he does 90 combat missions in Iraq as an
open turret gunner.
So I don’t know if you’re familiar with this nowadays.
When you’re overseas, you’re in an enclosed, bomb-proof, like M-Rap, this huge up-arward
60,000-ton vehicle with literally a remote-controlled gun that has a screen in front of you.
That’s how they do it now.
Nick was in Iraq when it’s an open turret.
Like it’s just you hanging out there, and the turret gunners are the number one target,
like as you’re rolling through on patrol.
So Nick is doing this extremely dangerous mission set, comes back from Iraq, gets out
of the military, goes to law school, which is the whole thing, and then he ends up deciding
he wants to get into entertainment law, but he has no idea how, so he just begins pestering
WME, one of the biggest talent agencies in the world, to let him work for them.
No one’s taking his calls.
He’s showing up in his one raggedy suit that he’s got, like trying to make an impression.
He’s just pre-goked to do with tattoos all over him.
No one wants him.
He finally gets the attention of one of the partners, he’s like, “All right, dude.
You come here all the time.
You can work in the mailroom pushing the mail car.”
And the dude quickly ascended and was like working with talent, like killing it.
So Nick is a highly persistent dude who just does what he wants.
It’s pretty amazing.
We got to know Jimmy because we do an event with him every year, we call it Camp MFM.
And I would say the first year we met him, his crew was a lot of like his friends or
like his cousin and that’s great because you get like high loyalty and like camaraderie
and all that.
But the operations were obviously like busting at the seams because he’s growing so fast
and every single person there has never done anything like this before.
And for a lot of them, never done anything before.
It’s like you’re all 23, you’re all 24, everybody was so young.
We went back this year and his right-hand man, Sean, is this guy who’s like-
Sean Hendricks.
It reminds of you already, Nick.
I think he is ex-military as well.
He was just like super operational, just an adult in the room and just had this like
grind mindset and like you, isn’t like enamored by the idea of Mr. Beast.
It’s not like, isn’t trying to be a part of the cool scene sees it as an operation that
needs to be run well.
And you could just tell his whole life got better by surrounding himself with more people
like that.
Sam, I don’t know if I ever told you the story, but we, for one of our companies, we
hired an ex-military guy to be like our kind of like head of customer service or something
like that.
It was like an at-home, it was a remote job.
He could do at home.
I think he had like a leg injury.
So this was like a good thing for him.
And this guy transformed our entire business.
Like first he started in customer service, but he would just notice everything is broken
because you know, it’s a Sean company if everything is broken.
And so he would find that the next thing’s broken and he would just be DMing me in Slack,
by the way.
The best part was he wouldn’t make you feel bad about fixing stuff.
He would just give me these like military phrases.
He’d be like, slow is smooth and smooth is fast.
He just hit me with that in the morning.
And then I would be like, I don’t really know where that applies, but I think it applies
to everything in my life now.
And he was like my guiding, you know, mentor basically from the customer service department.
It was amazing.
Well, I think John went on Chris Williamson’s pod and he told the story where I think a
grenade exploded near you and you almost died and it was a really bad situation.
And you’re like, it was kind of cool though, because I saw tens of millions of dollars
worth of elite training go into play because when I got hurt, my guys like did exactly
what they were supposed to do.
And it was like, it was like clockwork where you’re like, it’s so cool.
I can actually see all of this actually happening.
And I guess I mean, with a lot of the military guys, it seems that goes into play with business,
particularly when they’re like, dude, I’m used to grenades.
This shit’s easy.
It’s a grenade basically landed between myself and a few of my other teammates.
It detonates.
One of the things that happens in my limited experience in combat is you can get shot several
times.
You don’t just immediately collapse to the ground unless it’s a headshot or something.
You can get shot and become a superhuman for like 30 seconds.
It’s one of the most bizarre things.
And it’s like, we’re engaging these guys.
And in this absolute chaos, they lobbed the grenades over the wall to our side.
And I remember I watched this grenade come over the wall.
It’s like, I can see it for a second.
It disappeared.
I can see it for a second.
And it was like, time absolutely stood still.
It’s not some, I’m not making that up, but that’s, that was my experience.
It’s like, I’m witnessing my death.
Here comes this grenade.
I know it’s a grenade.
It’s like, my brain has become hyper focused on what’s happening.
And I remember thinking as it came closer to my head, this all happened in a fraction
of a second.
I remember thinking, boy, if it detonates here, it’s going to blow my head off.
And I won’t beat, my mom won’t be able to identify me.
Like, I just hope this falls below my head.
So even though it’s going to kill me, at least they can see my face.
I can have an open casket.
My family can see me, but you know, it reached my head and I’m just embracing for death.
And then, you know, it’s lights out, lights on, lights out, lights on.
It falls, it hits my shoulder and it goes and begins to travel down to the ground.
I remember having this thought of when it was at my torso, again, in this fraction of
a second, thinking, few, my face will be intact and now it’s going to blow me in half.
But at least my mom will see her son’s face, but it makes it to the ground.
And now I’m thinking, holy cow, like, it might just blow my legs off.
I might live through this.
It hits the ground and it detonates.
And I can only, I can only compare it to, first of all, I’m prepared to die at this
point.
So I was just ready for whatever happened.
There was no pain involved, but it felt like somebody took a handful of rocks and just
threw them as hard as they could at my back and my, my hips and my legs.
And it was zero pain.
Like there wasn’t even really shock, even though we are all, the seven of us in the
lethal range of this grenade, we just think that it was basically muffled or dead and
slightly by being in sewage.
By the way, I got E. Coli as a result of this because sewage was shot into my body.
But yeah, I collapsed to the ground and then my, and then it all hell broke loose.
I mean, of the seven of us that were behind this wall, six become incapacitated down to
the ground, like unconscious or badly hurt.
Our medic, who also is a seal, he’s, he’s incredible.
His name is Kyle.
He, he would tell us later on that everybody goes down.
He knows that there’s multiple enemy, enemy combatants literally on the other side of
the wall.
And he’s like, I just went into flow.
You know, he began rescuing us under a hail of gunfire.
And so rounds are coming in, rockets are being fired overhead.
I’m barely conscious in our, and our medic just began pulling people out under the hail
of gunfire.
My memory, which it would take years to learn what actually happened because my memory was
not accurate was I felt like the rocks hitting me.
And then I kind of like looked up and was it waiting for a combatant to come into the,
the alley we were in and finish me off.
And then like somehow or another, I was pulled like 10, 20 feet away and brought into this
alleyway.
And then Kyle, the medic wound up putting tourniquets on my legs and saving my life.
But years after the fact, Kyle and I, we didn’t speak following this, this whole thing.
It was like so traumatic.
We, we came back to the United States separately.
We didn’t talk for four years, uh, it, it after with all of us.
But when I sat down with him, he would tell me that after the impact, after the, the detonation,
he said, I looked and I saw you on the ground and I thought at first you were on a sheet
of ice.
And he was like, that doesn’t make any sense because there’s, it’s not cold enough.
And he was like, that’s when I realized you were actually in a puddle of blood, you were
face down and I assumed you were dead.
And in terms of triaging the situation, I couldn’t work on you.
You were the lowest chance of survival.
And he was like, I left you to die.
You know, I thought you were dead already.
And then after the others had basically been pulled out, you know, somebody came back and
pulled me up.
And I remember like being sort of in and out of consciousness and this, this, my memory
of this, I think was fairly accurate because I got brought basically here’s the tea.
I got brought like to the stem of the tea, if you will, we’re still getting shot at.
And I have these, they’re called quick release tourniquets sitting on my kit.
They’re, they’re literally on you so that you can quickly access them to stop the bleeding
and you actually put them here to save your life.
And I didn’t have the strength to break the rubber bands because I’d lost so much blood.
And so I’m sitting there, no one’s with me yet.
I’ve just been dragged here and left and, you know, rounds are coming into the alleyway.
And I, I had this moment where I could see everything.
I could hear everything, but then my vision completely went.
I went blind.
I couldn’t see anything and I could only hear.
And then the hearing turned into what sounded like helicopter, like, then I went to nothing.
And I had this, this point where it’s, I’m in a void, can’t see anything, can’t hear
anything.
I know I’m alive still, but it’s, I compare it to when I was seven years old and I fell
rollerblading and I badly broke my collarbone.
And the second I hit the ground, I stood up and I said to my dad, I broke my collarbone.
And like I’m seven, I don’t think I ever, I ever even thought about the fact that I had
a collarbone or even knew that that was called a collarbone.
But it was like, your brain is like, yep, that’s what happened.
It’s something traumatic.
And you know it immediately.
And when I was in this blackness of not seeing and not hearing, I knew absolutely that this
is death.
Like, absolutely.
It was just matter of fact.
And I couldn’t believe it.
Like I just got married and me and my wife had put off the idea of having kids until
after this deployment.
And I’m like, I can’t believe that’s what’s going to happen.
I’m going to die here.
And one of my final thoughts was, I wonder if in the newspaper, will it say John B. Allen
like killed an action?
Or will it say Jonathan B. Allen?
It was like just weird thoughts of like, huh, you know, will my, will my obituary make a
national newspaper or just a local paper?
Like, when are they going to tell my wife?
It was just so weirdly matter of fact.
And it struck me that like, just as much as you know how to live without thinking too
hard about it, it’s the only thing we know.
You are ready to die.
You just don’t know it yet.
When you face that, I imagine you have some type of questioning of like, like, how do
I want to spend my time, life short, things like that?
Does that mental clarity kind of carry with you for a decade?
Honestly, it has oddly enough, even though I tried out and became a seal, I actually
felt like I was somebody that was constantly turning down opportunities in fear of failure.
And it was almost like overcompensation to go try out to be a seal to like internally
write that or balance that out.
Like I had shot down so many opportunities.
But after this near death experience, it’s like anytime there’s an opportunity, no matter
how big, no matter how scary, no matter the opportunity to fail, I do actively think about
the fact that like, bro, you’re going to die.
And it’s going to happen.
And it’s going to be matter of fact, and it’s going to feel like, holy shit, I can’t believe
I’m dying.
And that’s it.
That’s the end.
And that is the thing that I think about just like, not the fragility of life, but the matter
of factness of dying.
The same way we live every day, and we don’t think about it.
You don’t wake up and think, oh, I better live today, you just do it.
The same shit happens when you die, and it’s going to happen when you probably aren’t even
expecting it.
It’s like, there you go, you’re done.
And so I carry that.
And just to close the loop there, after I got metabactin was safe, they debrief you
after you’re taken out of country for an injury.
And they asked me like, so what are your takeaways now that you’ve survived this ordeal.
And I said to the commanding officer, I’m like, you know what, in real time, I watched what
Navy SEALs do under fire.
Not me.
I was completely worthless.
I’m like incapacitated on the ground.
But I watched millions and millions and millions of dollars in training, like in practice, and
it was beautiful.
It was like the training works.
And so that’s actually used as a quote by that guy.
He’s like, the training works.
This guy said so.
When you’re deciding to build Mr. Ballin, Mr. Ballin Studio, first of all, going into
business, going into content creation, and then building a media company, how did you
decide that was worthy, a worthy way to spend your life?
Actually I fell backwards into this.
I mean, I got out of the military in 2017.
It was a medical retirement that was due in large part to this injury I’ve just described.
I wound up deploying one more time in the team, but I had mental issues.
I had emotional issues.
I had real physical issues.
I was a complete psychopath.
By the time I was being effectively told, it’s time for you to wrap it up here in the Navy.
And when I got out, in an effort to get myself a civilian job, I wound up connecting with
this guy named Jordan Selic, who’s this investment banker in New York, turned on to Prenor, and
he’s like, man, you got a network.
And so I started going on LinkedIn and networking, didn’t even know what I was doing.
I was just randomly messaging random people.
But before long, I had met enough people that there was this idea to have a networking event
in New York.
And so I invited some people that were also leaving the SEAL teams to come with me to
meet some business people in New York.
It was pretty open-ended.
And I wound up giving a speech, if you will, at this weird event with 50 people.
We called it Elite Meet, was the name of the event.
And it was meant to just be this one-time event.
I gave this talk about, hey, in the room right now, we have these veterans, and here’s what
they bring to the table.
And Jordan, who was there with me, he talked about what the business people had and what
opportunities they were looking to fill.
And it was great.
A few people got hired as a result.
But ironically, nobody was asking me about getting a job, because the assumption was,
this is your job.
You run this networking event.
And so I ended up making that my job.
And for a couple of years, I was the CEO of Elite Meet.
But to shorten the story, the pandemic happened.
And our charity was largely event-based.
We literally had these big networking events that we would cultivate over many months.
And we couldn’t do events anymore, because no one could do anything, like the world shut
down.
And it was around that time that I was sort of looking at other pathways to live my life.
And I thought social media and content creation was just kind of fascinating as– I mean,
it’s one of the few places where it’s fairly obvious that, unless you really buy into this
idea that algorithms are totally leaning one way or the other, ultimately, content creation
is a big meritocracy.
Ultimately, you can create content with no platform, no nothing.
And if you create the right thing at the right time, it’s like a lottery ticket.
And it goes viral.
And then it’s your chance at that point to capitalize in whatever way you want to.
And I tried cashing that lottery ticket for a while, doing some cringe, like weird sketch
comedy on Instagram and LinkedIn.
And I was doing dance videos.
I’m like a middle-aged dude doing dance videos on TikTok, getting made fun of.
It was horrible.
It was like nothing worked.
I was like, boy, I got this.
I’m going to be a content creator.
But I had this document on my computer.
I had two documents that was like TikTok ideas or content ideas.
And on one document, it was like, I’m not kidding, like 50 pages of single space, just
bullets of ideas, of the types of content I could create.
And then I had this other document that had a single word on it, or it was like a single
bullet point.
And it just said Dyatlov Pass.
So Dyatlov Pass is this very famous mystery about these hikers in the 1950s who go missing
in the year old mountains.
And they’re very experienced hikers, and they wind up missing, and then they’re found.
And there’s these photos of their campsite, and it’s been desecrated, and their bodies
are found.
And they’re wearing each other’s clothes.
Body parts are missing.
They’re radioactive.
There was one person that was tucked up in a tree, and there was all these scratch marks
at the base of the tree.
This is like in the middle of the year old mountains.
It’s just snow and ice everywhere.
And that same night, there was a Soviet military movement happening, and one of the people
who was in charge who had no idea about these missing hikers made a report that he had never
made before that happened to coincide with the same time these hikers went missing, where
he said, “I see these lights that are basically coming up and down and flashing over this
section of the mountain pretty far away from our position, and that this guy was trying
to find out, is there another military movement happening, or is another country invading us?”
And so it turns out there wasn’t, and no one knows what those lights were, and no one knows
what happened to these hikers.
And so it’s this great mystery, and I thought it was fascinating, and that’s the content
that I like.
Like when I go on the internet to look at video, when I’m eating my lunch, that’s what
I’m going to watch.
I’m going to watch videos like that, and to date, I had been trying to mimic other people’s
content style.
I was just copying stuff and trying to hit it big on social media, and it was just not
going well at all.
How many other videos do you think you made before you had that kind of hit and you found
your lane?
Because I think this is really important.
A lot of people expect to just know they’re laying up front or hit early on, and even
if intellectually they realize, “I probably will have to do trial and error,” even failing
like seven, eight, nine times, eleven times in a row is completely demoralizing for the
average person.
So how many videos do you think you made before you popped off?
On TikTok specifically, there’s a slightly bigger version to this story because there
was a time where in between 2017, when I was medically retired and 2020, when I post this
video that goes viral, we were using social media specifically linked in to try to drum
up support for EliteMe.
We would basically tell stories in text format with a picture attached to it about veterans
that were leaving the military, and I would kind of like write stories about their experiences
and then anecdotally how they connected to why they’d be a good fit in these types of
industries.
It was very successful, not viral, but we raised half a million dollars on micro donations
that stemmed from these posts that we were doing, me and Jordan in particular, my co-founder.
And so I had gotten a taste of what social media can do.
Nothing like what Mr. Ballin is, but it was like using social media as a real tool, and
I remember sometime in 2018 and ’19, we’re doing all this content that’s really centered
on veterans and drawing donations for this charity.
And I decided to kind of selfishly in tandem begin posting very similar content, like anecdotal
military experience type of content, but my own, and with not the intention of drawing
support to EliteMe necessarily, although that was kind of like incidental.
It was more like building my own personal brand as like the Navy Seal.
And I drew the ire of the entire Navy Seal.
You know, dudes, seals hate that, don’t they?
Which is like super unfair because, you know, I’ve read the book about the guy who killed
bin Laden.
I forget his name.
And then there’s Goggins and a lot of these guys, my seal friends, they talk shit about
people who use Navy Seal as a story.
And I understand their perspective.
Their perspective is like, it’s us, like we don’t talk about this, we all did this together.
But then I understand the other perspective of like, yeah, but like you just served a
country and you almost died and like, you’re probably likely looking at like not that awesome
of a life after you retire because you’re bummed out about what you experienced.
And there’s a whole bunch of shit why like, you know, it doesn’t look awesome once you
once you get out.
And so I understand that perspective of like, dude, take what you can get and get ahead.
So it’s a challenge.
You’re in a tough spot.
Yeah.
And unfortunately, you know, it was a blessing and a curse because in a way when I began
posting, you know, text stories of, you know, how I was, I wasn’t intending to come off as
like Mr. Navy Seal, but that’s entirely how it came off.
And once I made that shift, I was like, I’m going to delete all the seal content and start
anew and just try my hand at something that is completely divorced from being at Seal.
I posted, I had probably hundreds of videos that were like, I mean, some did relatively
well, get a couple hundred or a thousand views, but like, nothing was turning into anything.
And but I also, I have this sort of obsessive quality when I want to do something.
It’s definitely what, you know, allowed me to become a seal.
It’s like, you, if you want to be, if you want to be really good at something, you kind
of have to only do that.
And I had this idea that like, I really want to do something with social media.
And so I was obsessed with it.
So despite the many failures over the course of probably, you know, six months or so, maybe
a year of just like awful cringe videos that went nowhere, I had like reached a point where
my wife was like, dude, you got to like figure something else out here.
This is not really going anywhere.
She was very diplomatic about it, but we got three young kids or we had two at the time.
But I was at this water park in Pennsylvania, this indoor water park with my wife and kids.
And on a whim, I was like, you know what, I’m just going to shoot a quick video, the
60 second talk about the Dialog Pass.
And so I film it in my hotel room and I leave my phone in the room because we’re going down
to the water park and I didn’t have a way to waterproof it, leave my phone, me and my
wife and kids, we go down to the water park, we’re there for a couple of hours, come back
and I couldn’t even open my phone.
There were so many notifications pouring in for this one video on my TikTok account that
had no following.
It was like this brand new account basically, and it had over five million views in a matter
of a few hours.
And I was like, holy cow, like as you guys have seen in this podcast, I love to talk,
love to tell stories.
Maybe I can just keep doing this on TikTok.
And so I went into this feverish like constantly telling stories on TikTok, three a day for
30 days and then was up to like seven million subscribers on TikTok and then shifted to
YouTube and here we are.
Well, let me tell you one thing.
This is going to tell you a little bit about you and a lot about me.
You told two stories just now.
Yeah.
You told a story of you representing our country nearly dying in war, being saved by the Navy
Seals facing a life or death experience.
And I was like, I like this story.
Then you talked about how you came home, you got on LinkedIn, you started using the easy
button to try to post the content and then you admitted you’re like, I didn’t want to
be doing that, but I was doing that and I didn’t care.
I wanted to do it anyways.
And then people shit on before it and it felt really bad and they were right.
And I was like, I ride with this guy.
I love this guy because there are so few people on earth.
There are a few people on earth who have lived through war and survived.
There might be even fewer people who could look at their actions and say, yeah, I don’t
think and not give themselves the benefit of the doubt, right?
Everybody gives themselves the benefit of that.
Everyone gives themselves the charitable interpretation.
I really love how honest you were about what you were doing and how that might have been
like something that you’re not proud of how you did it and how you, you know, ultimately
where it landed you, which was like through doing that, you’re like, all right, I want
to do storytelling, social media, maybe you kind of had a taste of it, but then you tried
to make it by copying what others were doing on TikTok.
And only when you did the thing that was like the intersection of like, you know, what you’re
good at and what the world is interested in.
You found that authentic point where now, you know, there’s nobody else doing what you
were doing or very few people were doing what you were doing there.
So I think there’s a lot to learn from that.
How big is your guys’ company now?
I know you have 40 people and you’re like, just, what do you have, eight, nine million
on YouTube and then three million on Facebook and I don’t even know how much on TikTok now,
a shit load.
What’s the Mr. Ball with foundation and, you know, 1099 contractors that end up rolling
up into W twos were almost around 55.
And then I would say fan wise, you know, he’s got nine plus billion on YouTube, eight plus
billion on TikTok, three and a half on Facebook, Snapchat, you name it.
So I think, oh, and then you have the podcast, which does, you know, eight figures in downloads
a month.
So I mean, I would say the, the range is about 25 million in fans just for the strange dark
mysterious.
So you built this empire quickly.
And you know, when I do these podcasts, I wake up and I think, all right, what am I
excited to talk about and learn about genuinely?
What am I actually selfishly interested because that’s what makes for the best podcast on
honestly, because it’s, that’s the conversation I really want to have.
And the one thing I wanted to learn from you was like, you, you built this media company
and you do these kind of like strange, dark and mysterious stories.
I don’t do those stories.
I’m not necessarily trying to build a media company, but there was one thing you said
that really stood out to me when I was kind of going down the rabbit hole.
And it’s around what is the mindset that’s helped you become successful that I could
take even if I’m trying to do something completely different, right?
How can I learn from you guys?
How can I learn from a seal and the mindset that, that it took to be successful there,
that it took to be successful with your media company that I might use elsewhere?
And you said something that was great.
You were on our buddy Chris’s podcast and you said, he was asking you about, you know,
being in a rut or how do you not get stuck?
And you said, you know, one thing I’m good at is if I find something, I have a basic
outline of what I want to do.
As long as something checks enough of the boxes, I don’t overthink it because you said most
people or, you know, other people could sit there and question what, you know, we have
something that, that you think might work and you could sit there and question and say,
is there some alternative that’s slightly better?
Is there something that would check more boxes or how would this work and get caught up in
the details?
I really love that mindset because I think that is a, every entrepreneur has been guilty
of that once if not is stuck there.
Can you talk a little bit about that mindset?
What did you mean by that?
And any maybe examples of how you approach that?
Sure.
So I mean, to be clear, definitely in terms of getting the business to 55 employees with
a slate of shows, that wasn’t me.
I might be the face of it, but Nick is absolutely the architect and the guy who runs the business.
But just relative to like, you know, my role in this company.
Yeah.
I think that what I was getting at with Chris Williamson was this idea that, you know,
we are inundated.
We like anybody online are inundated oftentimes with like these pretty tropish messages like,
you know, you just got to outwork the competition, you just got to put in, you just got to grind
like hustle culture.
Like it’s, it’s this whole idea of like, just get out there and like, just do stuff.
And it’s like, but what do I do is oftentimes the unspoken question of most people listening
is like, I get it.
Like I need to work really hard.
I need to care a lot about what I’m doing.
People get that.
But where a lot of people stumble from my perspective is just sounds corny, but like taking action.
But the idea is like, there are so many things that anybody at any time could pursue, whether
it’s career, relationship, hobby, you name it.
Like there’s an infinite number of things in some ways that you could, you could do.
And people are like, well, is it, what’s the ROI if I do this, whatever it is?
And I don’t think that I set out to be this way out of strategy.
I think it’s just who I am, which is like, if it’s good enough, just start doing it.
And so for me, like I had this idea and so I have a baseline of things I care about.
I want something to be hard enough that if I do it, I’ll feel really proud of doing that
thing.
Like if it’s easy, it’s not going to make me excited at the end, like it needs to be
a challenge.
So something that’s hard, something that comes with some level of like, this is going to sound
vain, but I think we’re all pretty human here, some level of recognition for doing the thing.
It’s not the reason you do it, but you do want people to be aware that you struggled and
built this thing, you did this thing, you own this thing, whatever it is.
So it’s like, has to be hard, has to have some level of people being aware.
This is again, my baseline, people being aware of me accomplishing it.
And then also, I want to have some level of enjoyment doing it.
The Navy SEAL teams are a good example of one of those things that checked those boxes
for me.
Like prior to trying out for the SEAL teams, I had sort of got my act together and managed
to graduate college.
There was a time where I definitely was not on that path, my mom wrote my college essay
to the college that accepted me, my grades were so bad, but the essay was so good.
She’s a professional writer that the college actually contacted me and was like, your grades
are not enough, but boy, that essay, you’re in the door, buddy.
And I immediately like got, I got in all this trouble with my first, anyways, I was on this
path to like flunking out of college and being that guy that totally peaked in high school.
But when I was back home in Quincy, Massachusetts, just south of Boston mass, I was like in my
mom’s basement after basically flunking out of school and getting in trouble.
I wound up realizing that, hey, if you want to graduate college, you got to do it yourself.
You need to own your fuck up and go to school and do it.
And so I managed to graduate.
I took some local classes, went back to the old university, I graduated, I get my degree,
but I had no idea what I wanted to do after college.
Like none.
I majored in philosophy with a minor in English because there was no pre-law degree because
I sort of convinced myself that maybe I’ll be a lawyer.
I was like, what am I going to do?
And I just, I had this feeling of like, well, man, it was really cool to like pick myself
up by the bootstraps and like graduate on my own strength here.
And I began looking for opportunities to kind of continue doing stuff like that.
And that’s where I kind of developed this mindset of look for things that are hard, look for
things that come with some level of recognition and things that I might enjoy doing.
And I found the SEAL teams.
Like I had always been kind of enamored with the military.
A lot of my classmates in high school, they, after high school joined the Marines and went
off to fight in the wars.
And I actually always sort of felt a little bit guilty that I went to college on my mom’s
essay and pissed it all away and yeah, I graduated, but I always had this sort of like deep down
guilt that I didn’t, you know, volunteer at the time that many of my friends did.
And so I kind of idolized them.
I also looked at the SEAL teams as being this thing that like just about anybody, you know,
within reason can try out for the SEAL teams.
It’s not something that requires a whole lot to get in the door.
I’m generalizing, but it is relatively easy to try out.
But it is exceptionally hard to graduate.
And so perfect.
It’s got this incredible challenge.
And then if you become a SEAL, well, guess what?
No one’s going to be like, yeah, but John screwed up in college.
And it just felt like, wow, like that checks every box for me.
And I went that way.
And I became a SEAL.
And then, you know, after, after the military, I still had that kind of mindset of looking
for things that I wanted to do that would be hard, some level of recognition and enjoy
and have some enjoyment.
And I thought social media was it.
It just felt like a big challenge, you know, to, to like get noticed by the world.
So here’s the deal.
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It was called The Hustle.
And it was a daily newsletter at scale to millions of subscribers.
And it was the greatest business on earth.
The problem with it was that I had close to 40 employees and only three of them were actually
doing any writing.
The other employees were growing the newsletter, building out the tech for the platform and
selling ads.
And honestly, it was a huge pain in the butt.
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I know that like, I think your father is a, is a big shot journalist from the Boston
Globe, I think, and your, your mom and sister are as well.
Were you motivated by like just creating cool shit or were you motivated at all by money?
Cause I haven’t, I mean, there’s this phrase like king or rich, so it’s like, do you want
to be like famous?
Do you want to be like famous or do you want to be rich?
Um, I mean, to be honest, like when, for example, when I was trying really hard post deleting
all the seal stuff, like when I was trying to like find something on TikTok between dancing
and cringe stuff I was doing, I don’t think I necessarily had an exact goal in mind because
I truthfully didn’t know where it was going to take me.
I had low expectations.
I think that I looked at it because I was 30 at the time, you know, I’m not like an
18 year old.
I’m not throwing shade on 18 year olds, but when I was 18, if I was doing social media,
it was for fame, like be cool, like be the cool guy.
But when I was doing it, I actually was mostly probably leaning towards money in terms of
make this a livelihood.
I have kids.
I’m married.
Like this would be a really fun way to make a living, but I definitely did not have the
thought that this will be an empire worth millions of dollars.
I was thinking like, boy, wouldn’t it be great if this supplemented my income?
You know, and then only when, you know, this really frankly blew up.
I actually, I was somewhere in between recognition and money in the sense that I clearly saw.
This is when Nick comes into the picture and I’m like about to give it all up and we end
up kind of like sinking and we’re like, okay, we’re going to build this thing.
It was more like the fun of the challenge, which includes if you’re successful, you can
be famous.
If you’re successful, you can make lots of money.
You can have generational wealth.
But for me, like more than anything, it was this idea that like, I want to do something
that’s really fucking hard to do.
I would say of all the baseline elements I gave you, those are the things most drawn
to often times.
And so that is the thing.
If it was easy at a certain point to be Mr. Ballin and, and grow in notoriety and make
more money, I wouldn’t be interested in doing it.
Those are byproducts of the challenge that I often seek.
Sean, whenever I hang out with guys like these guys, these ex military guys, I feel inspired.
I also feel super fucking soft.
Do you, do you feel that same way?
Dude, that’s not just with military guys.
I feel that with the average guys.
This is of course.
Yes, I feel that way.
Well, I like what he said about like having a highest order bit, you know, like the orienting
function.
Like what is your true north?
And his true north is basically like, it sounds like you’re like looking for giant
mountains to go climb like summit.
You’re like, what’s the, what’s the hard thing that I would feel proud of myself if I did.
And then I know other people would be proud and respect me too if they did it.
And as a byproduct of doing the hard thing, I’m sure there’s reward.
Yes.
And John’s always been like that.
Yeah.
Exactly.
And it sounds like the seals like that’s conquering social media, although it sounds goofy like
TikTok or whatever.
It’s one of the most competitive merit based things you could go compete in.
What’s a race that a billion people are competing in, you know, that that’s one of the few.
And so like Sam, what is your, what’s your version of that?
What’s the highest order, you know, the orienting thing when you decide, what are you going
to, what are you going to devote your time and your talents to?
Do you know?
Mine was, mine’s empty.
It’s still empty, which is, it was just like money to provide for my family.
But once you get past that, like it is quite, you’re empty when you don’t have that.
And I still, I’m still oftentimes I’m like, I need this.
I need direction.
And so that’s why when I hear these guys, I’m like, I feel a sense of envy, a bit that
they have a direction, but I feel a slightly directionless to you.
At the beginning it was like prove myself early twenties, then like late twenties was
like, you know, I’d like to have like a million dollars in the bank, you know, like some money
became like the thing.
It’s a million, 10 million.
And the, the richer person I met, I would be like, Oh yeah, I need that much money.
Then early thirties popping out kids, I realized I went to lifestyles like, Oh, actually it’s
a certain amount of money, but actually it’s, I don’t want more money with more stress and
time.
I want like the maximum amount of time, least amount of stress, but still be able to do
whatever the hell I want.
So enough money to do that.
So that was what I would call lifestyle.
And now I’m 36 and in the last year, I basically shifted that north again.
And by the way, I don’t think it’s bad to shift to north.
I think you have seasons of life and chapters of life and you should eat.
They’re all not all the same, you know, like having a lot of fun was really important in
college for me.
And that was the true north.
Right now it’s basically enjoyment.
So what I’m trying to do is figure out what is the most me thing I could do.
Like you were saying, these are the stories I’m interested in and you come from background.
I think your parents are like storytellers and it’s probably something you learned through
osmosis.
I think about it like this.
What can I do that’s just simply me pushed out to the world?
That is my most my highest orienting function.
And then the filter is basically, am I doing this because doing it is the reward or am I
doing this for some future rewards?
And most of my life I did things for future rewards.
I went to college so I could get a good job and I got a good job so that I could make
some money.
And I got some money so that I could buy this thing.
Everything was this future payoff.
And now I’m like, oh wait, I don’t need to do that trade.
That’s a little silly.
Why don’t I just do things with the act of doing it as the reward?
If there happens to be other byproducts in the future, great.
But I can’t do things that I don’t really want to do or kind of suck today because I
think they might pay off in the future.
I don’t do those anymore.
This podcast is the best thing I’ve ever done.
And when I started it, I was basically like, I’m going to lose, I plan, I wrote down in
my plan, this should lose about $10,000 to $20,000 a year.
I’m comfortable with that.
So it’s like the only non, not only just won’t make me rich, I planned for it to make me slightly
poorer every year doing it.
And ironically, this is the thing that’s done the best.
It’s been the most successful of all the projects.
And I’m willing to do it forever.
This is the only thing I do that I’m not looking to exit, right?
Like I’m not looking to sell this and then I’ll be able to relax and retire.
It’s like, no, no, I kind of want to keep doing the pot.
You’d have to pay me to stop.
Do you guys have for Mr. Ball and Studios, do you guys have this North Star in terms
of how many people you’re going to reach or how big the company’s going to get?
Or is this a business that you’re like, man, one day we could sell this for like $200 million?
Yeah.
What do you label the top of the mountain or like what’s the height of the mountain you’re
trying to climb here?
The North Star I would say for the company as far as, you know, being a manager, it’s
always what’s your client’s North Star, that’s your North Star.
And then as CEO, it’s still that, but it’s what’s, you know, what’s John and I’s North
Star from the studio, his vision.
And I implement and execute.
Well, that’s the noble sounding thing.
John, what’s the dirty selfish, ego driven goal you have?
Yeah.
Surely you guys are, surely you guys are sit down and you’re like, man, I think in five
years we could do a hundred million in revenue.
Yeah.
My New Year’s resolution is to like, you know, build healthy habits, but there’s the dirty
selfish goal of like, I want to take my shirt off and see some abs, baby.
Like, come on, I won’t say that, but like, that’s what, that’s part of it for sure.
So I will say that before all of this happened, before I was in college, I always aspired
to be, I played baseball growing up, not like at a very high level.
I played through high school, but I was like really good in my hometown, you know, at
one point I, I really believed that I could potentially play for the Boston Red Sox.
That’s like my favorite team.
And I…
So now you want to own them?
There’s, I don’t think that is, in terms of a selfish goal, yeah.
Like that would be the thing.
I would want to own a piece of the Red Sox, but actually I was going to an analogy and
then I was going to double back to that.
When that dream was shattered, sometime I remember my senior year of high school, I just like
said it out loud.
I’m like, yeah, I’m probably not going to play for the Boston Red Sox.
And I was like, no, fuck, like, that’s true.
Like I’m not.
The dream is over.
But I always just like thought about, like that was the dream that, that was my childhood
dream, like pitch for the Boston Red Sox.
That was it.
And so now like that we’re at this place, you know, Ballin Studios is at this place
where, you know, when he’s talking about recruiting the best storytellers in the world, it’s actually
a little bit different than recruiting.
I look at us, and this is my, take my shirt off, show you the truth.
I look at us as like, I’ll put it this way, if you, if you’re a baseball player, you’re
an amateur baseball player like I was, you don’t aspire to be the best independent baseball
player in the world, that you’re going to be by yourself, just being the best.
You want to play for the fucking Boston Red Sox or the Yankees or whatever it is you want
to play for.
Like that’s, that’s the goal.
Like that’s the peak of baseball is playing for one of those teams for me, the Red Sox.
And so I love this idea of like thinking about that dream I had and kind of angling it so
it’s applicable to storytellers where there really isn’t like a really prominent like that’s
where the fucking storytellers go.
Like that’s the place, that’s the stamp of approval that is the ultimate place.
If you’re a storyteller in some capacity, if you are under the Ballin Studios umbrella,
boom, you’ve made it.
Like that’s the equivalent.
I want us to be that.
I want to be the Boston Red Sox equivalent for storytellers.
And so I don’t know how we’re going to get there, but I want that level of prestige assigned
to Ballin Studios relative to storytellers.
And then with that, I want to own a fucking piece of the Red Sox.
That’s a great, that’s a great goal.
All right.
So give me, give me something I can use today, meaning you’re a great storyteller.
You’re trying to build the team of the greatest storytellers.
Tell me, teach me something that will make me a better storyteller today.
What’s one thing you could teach me to make me a better storyteller?
It’s something that people love and hate that tune into my content.
This is like, it’s kind of a polarizing thing.
But one of the things that I’ll do when I’m telling a story, if it’s not my own, if it’s
somebody else’s story, which is like 99% of the stories I’ve done, is I don’t just resuscitate
the facts of the story.
I, and with a very incredible team of people, it’s not just me anymore, we will like inhabit
that story.
It’s, I don’t, I have scripts that sit next to me, but like as my producer who’s right
over here will attest to, I’m not reading the script.
It’s a matter of producing a script that I can then like become a part of.
I will begin espousing what people are thinking or what people could have been thinking or
what could have been said in certain situations that I have no way of knowing.
But I am so committed to telling that story that I have learned it both outside as much
as I can insides that when you’re hearing it, it would almost be like it was my story.
Like the level of commitment, if you’re going to tell a story, own the fucking story.
Like it enter the story and don’t leave until it’s done.
People that like tell you a story and it sounds like they’re just telling something
they heard.
That’s not storytelling.
That’s just regurgitating something you heard.
You want to be a fucking storyteller and habit the story full commitment to the point where
you are literally acting out pieces of that story for your audience.
Damn, I’m hyped up Sam.
You are the man.
Sam, are you feeling what I’m feeling right now?
Yeah.
John, I once fell in love with this girl in Australia.
It’s called love.
And I fell in love with this girl in Australia and she was a dancer.
She wanted you to come out dancing with her.
I said, no, no, no.
I’m not a dancer.
You’re a dancer.
You do that.
I’ll watch you over here on the side.
She said, no, go over here.
And she was like, okay.
Hand on my hip.
And I put my hand on her hip.
And she goes, let me stop you right there.
I was like, oh man, I already fucked up.
This dancer getting his move.
Oh, no.
And she goes, if you ever touch someone, touch them with intent.
And I feel like that’s what you just told me.
If you’re going to tell a story, tell the story with some intent.
You got to touch with intent.
You got to touch these stories.
I love that.
This woman sounds awesome.
She also told me she wanted to never get married and have a man in every port.
And I was like, I don’t know if that’s a figure of speech or just a lifestyle choice.
I don’t really know what’s going on, but I think you’re a little too adventurous for me.
Dude, you guys are awesome.
Your team’s saying you got to wrap up and we appreciate y’all.
I’ve really admired you guys from afar.
Come on.
Yep.
Thank you for having us.
This is great.
All right.
That’s the pod.
I feel like I can rule the world.
I know I could be what I want to put my all in it like no days off on the road.
Let’s travel.
Never looking back.
[BLANK_AUDIO]
It disappeared, I can see it for a second, and it was like time absolutely stood still.
And when I was in this blackness of not seeing and not hearing,
I knew absolutely that this is death.
I had mental issues, I had emotional issues, I had real physical issues.
I was a complete psychopath.
And when I got out, I thought social media and content creation was just kind of fascinating.
How did you decide that was a worthy way to spend your life?
If you create the right thing at the right time, it’s at a lottery ticket,
and it goes viral and then it’s your chance at that point to capitalize in whatever way you want to.
I was obsessed with it.
So despite the many failures over the course of probably six months or so,
maybe a year of just awful cringe videos that went nowhere on a whim,
I was like, you know what, I’m just going to shoot a quick video,
and I leave my phone in the room for a couple of hours, come back,
and I couldn’t even open my phone.
And it had over five million views in a matter of a few hours.
So you built this empire quickly.
I went into this feverish, like, constantly telling stories on TikTok,
three a day for 30 days, and then lived up to like seven million subscribers on TikTok,
and then shifted to YouTube, and here we are.
What’s one thing you teach me to make me a better storytelling?
It’s something that people love and hate, and you’re going to tell a story.
I feel like I can rule the world.
I know I could be what I want to.
I put my all in it like the days off on a roller coaster.
Sean, have you ever seen the Mr. Bullen channel before, like, I asked you if he should come on?
No, when I found out you were coming on as a guest,
that’s when the research started, and I went to your TikTok first,
and then I went to YouTube, and then I started watching some other stuff.
But I love the genre, but I’m not, like, crazy about it.
My brother-in-law is nuts about these spooky stories.
He does something I don’t even understand.
You got to explain this to me.
There’s apparently a YouTube channel that takes spooky stories from Reddit
and then reads it, like, text-to-speech, like, robotic text-to-speech,
and he’ll listen to this thing for like two hours straight.
I can’t believe that he does this, but when I saw that, I was like,
“Oh, that’s like people who are far on the deep end of loving this type of content.”
I’ve definitely have done, like, on a Saturday where I’ve got a due chores or something like that
and run errands.
I’ve done a six- to eight-hour marathon of Mr. Bolland.
What’s your consumption rate on your channel right now?
Is it just through the roof?
That’s a Nick question.
So Nick, Nick does everything with the exception of telling the stories on camera.
I’m, like, completely out of the loop with virtually everything else.
I just sit down and tell stories, and Nick is the guy for literally every other question
in terms of, like, growth of the channel, like, metrics.
That’s Nick. That’s Nick’s wheelhouse.
Dude, that’s nirvana for content.
Oh, dude.
Where you can just sit down, you just record, and then you disappear, and everything else
happens magically.
Yeah.
Every content creator wants that.
I will get to this, but he came in when I didn’t know how to, like, grow my channel
beyond just me, and, like, I was so burned out.
Nick came in when it was me, and I think I had an editor and maybe, like, a topic finder,
and that was overwhelming for me.
You know, it’s like, I was deleting all emails that came in.
People try to, like, do business with me.
I just delete everything, so I had no idea how to, like, figure out if it was good or
not.
And Nick came in and was like, “Yo, dude, I’ll help you.”
And he grew the business.
How big were you when that happened?
We were, like, significant on YouTube, but I personally was at a place where I was just
jumping in.
I mean, it took me about 26 hours, give or take, to make one video in the first six months
I was on YouTube, and I was doing anywhere from three to five videos a week.
And at the same time, you know, I’m married.
I have three young kids.
I completely was negligent in all duties besides content.
My wife is a saint and picked up everything else.
But I was doing, you know, I mean, do the math.
27, like, over 100 hours of just constant grinding, like, at all hours.
And so even though the channel was, you know, in the millions, and we were, you know, by
all accounts, had, like, made it as a YouTube channel, I was so close to being like, “Dude,
this ain’t worth it.
Like, I’m in my 30s.
I have a family.
Like, I’ve done well for myself.
But this is, like, the worst thing ever.”
And it was around that time that I’m like, “Maybe all those people that are emailing me, maybe
they can offer something that will help me, like, grow.”
Because I swear to God, I was just mass deleting emails because it was so stressful.
Like, people that were, like, trying to pitch me, and I saw an email come through that was
like, you know, “Fellow Combat Veteran Here to Health.”
And I had, like, I’m a military guy, and I’m immediately like, “Okay, this guy I could
talk to.
I don’t know who he is.
I don’t know what he means by health.”
But I opened his email and he’s like, “Yeah, you know, I’m a day-to-day manager with Mr.
Beast.
I have experience and traditional talent.
Yeah, I’m not looking to sign you, not looking to really do anything, but I just saw, you
know, your vet.
It’s rare in the space, and I’d be happy to help.”
And so, like, I immediately hit him up, and I’m like, “I don’t know you, but my life’s
falling apart here, man.
Like, I’ve got all this great stuff happening with YouTube, but I can’t manage it.
Like, I’m losing my mind.”
And so that began what turned out to be the reason that the Mr. Ball and Thing did not
fade into obscurity.
I mean, I’m a great storyteller, but I cannot grow a business.
I couldn’t have done this longer than, like, literally that month.
I remember talking to my wife and being like, “I just don’t know if this is worth it.”
But Nick came in, and I handed the reins of virtually everything over to Nick, and he
scaled the company.
We have, like, 50-plus employees now, we’ve got a slate of shows.
I show up to the studio, and just somebody else hits record, and I just tell stories,
and I leave because of Nick.
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The thing to Johnny, it’s like every creator on the planet, it’s like you start it all
by yourself.
Everything lives and dies on their shoulders, and so even just letting someone in to tweak
a title or give advice on a thumbnail is just like the highest level of anxiety that creators
can have, too.
Did he say that you were working with Mr. Beast before that?
Yeah, yeah.
So I got hired to be the right hand for the CEO over at Night Media.
And so Reid was Jimmy’s main manager, and I got recruited to go be Jimmy’s number two
or Reid’s number two, and I was running day to day with Mr. Beast.
And before that, I had no clue about anything on YouTube.
So I was learning everything from Michael Jordan of YouTube, and then I was applying
it in real time in real practice.
And before that, I was in law school, became a lawyer, did a military stand.
So Nick also, when he got out of the military, so he does 90 combat missions in Iraq as an
open turret gunner.
So I don’t know if you’re familiar with this nowadays.
When you’re overseas, you’re in an enclosed, bomb-proof, like M-Rap, this huge up-arward
60,000-ton vehicle with literally a remote-controlled gun that has a screen in front of you.
That’s how they do it now.
Nick was in Iraq when it’s an open turret.
Like it’s just you hanging out there, and the turret gunners are the number one target,
like as you’re rolling through on patrol.
So Nick is doing this extremely dangerous mission set, comes back from Iraq, gets out
of the military, goes to law school, which is the whole thing, and then he ends up deciding
he wants to get into entertainment law, but he has no idea how, so he just begins pestering
WME, one of the biggest talent agencies in the world, to let him work for them.
No one’s taking his calls.
He’s showing up in his one raggedy suit that he’s got, like trying to make an impression.
He’s just pre-goked to do with tattoos all over him.
No one wants him.
He finally gets the attention of one of the partners, he’s like, “All right, dude.
You come here all the time.
You can work in the mailroom pushing the mail car.”
And the dude quickly ascended and was like working with talent, like killing it.
So Nick is a highly persistent dude who just does what he wants.
It’s pretty amazing.
We got to know Jimmy because we do an event with him every year, we call it Camp MFM.
And I would say the first year we met him, his crew was a lot of like his friends or
like his cousin and that’s great because you get like high loyalty and like camaraderie
and all that.
But the operations were obviously like busting at the seams because he’s growing so fast
and every single person there has never done anything like this before.
And for a lot of them, never done anything before.
It’s like you’re all 23, you’re all 24, everybody was so young.
We went back this year and his right-hand man, Sean, is this guy who’s like-
Sean Hendricks.
It reminds of you already, Nick.
I think he is ex-military as well.
He was just like super operational, just an adult in the room and just had this like
grind mindset and like you, isn’t like enamored by the idea of Mr. Beast.
It’s not like, isn’t trying to be a part of the cool scene sees it as an operation that
needs to be run well.
And you could just tell his whole life got better by surrounding himself with more people
like that.
Sam, I don’t know if I ever told you the story, but we, for one of our companies, we
hired an ex-military guy to be like our kind of like head of customer service or something
like that.
It was like an at-home, it was a remote job.
He could do at home.
I think he had like a leg injury.
So this was like a good thing for him.
And this guy transformed our entire business.
Like first he started in customer service, but he would just notice everything is broken
because you know, it’s a Sean company if everything is broken.
And so he would find that the next thing’s broken and he would just be DMing me in Slack,
by the way.
The best part was he wouldn’t make you feel bad about fixing stuff.
He would just give me these like military phrases.
He’d be like, slow is smooth and smooth is fast.
He just hit me with that in the morning.
And then I would be like, I don’t really know where that applies, but I think it applies
to everything in my life now.
And he was like my guiding, you know, mentor basically from the customer service department.
It was amazing.
Well, I think John went on Chris Williamson’s pod and he told the story where I think a
grenade exploded near you and you almost died and it was a really bad situation.
And you’re like, it was kind of cool though, because I saw tens of millions of dollars
worth of elite training go into play because when I got hurt, my guys like did exactly
what they were supposed to do.
And it was like, it was like clockwork where you’re like, it’s so cool.
I can actually see all of this actually happening.
And I guess I mean, with a lot of the military guys, it seems that goes into play with business,
particularly when they’re like, dude, I’m used to grenades.
This shit’s easy.
It’s a grenade basically landed between myself and a few of my other teammates.
It detonates.
One of the things that happens in my limited experience in combat is you can get shot several
times.
You don’t just immediately collapse to the ground unless it’s a headshot or something.
You can get shot and become a superhuman for like 30 seconds.
It’s one of the most bizarre things.
And it’s like, we’re engaging these guys.
And in this absolute chaos, they lobbed the grenades over the wall to our side.
And I remember I watched this grenade come over the wall.
It’s like, I can see it for a second.
It disappeared.
I can see it for a second.
And it was like, time absolutely stood still.
It’s not some, I’m not making that up, but that’s, that was my experience.
It’s like, I’m witnessing my death.
Here comes this grenade.
I know it’s a grenade.
It’s like, my brain has become hyper focused on what’s happening.
And I remember thinking as it came closer to my head, this all happened in a fraction
of a second.
I remember thinking, boy, if it detonates here, it’s going to blow my head off.
And I won’t beat, my mom won’t be able to identify me.
Like, I just hope this falls below my head.
So even though it’s going to kill me, at least they can see my face.
I can have an open casket.
My family can see me, but you know, it reached my head and I’m just embracing for death.
And then, you know, it’s lights out, lights on, lights out, lights on.
It falls, it hits my shoulder and it goes and begins to travel down to the ground.
I remember having this thought of when it was at my torso, again, in this fraction of
a second, thinking, few, my face will be intact and now it’s going to blow me in half.
But at least my mom will see her son’s face, but it makes it to the ground.
And now I’m thinking, holy cow, like, it might just blow my legs off.
I might live through this.
It hits the ground and it detonates.
And I can only, I can only compare it to, first of all, I’m prepared to die at this
point.
So I was just ready for whatever happened.
There was no pain involved, but it felt like somebody took a handful of rocks and just
threw them as hard as they could at my back and my, my hips and my legs.
And it was zero pain.
Like there wasn’t even really shock, even though we are all, the seven of us in the
lethal range of this grenade, we just think that it was basically muffled or dead and
slightly by being in sewage.
By the way, I got E. Coli as a result of this because sewage was shot into my body.
But yeah, I collapsed to the ground and then my, and then it all hell broke loose.
I mean, of the seven of us that were behind this wall, six become incapacitated down to
the ground, like unconscious or badly hurt.
Our medic, who also is a seal, he’s, he’s incredible.
His name is Kyle.
He, he would tell us later on that everybody goes down.
He knows that there’s multiple enemy, enemy combatants literally on the other side of
the wall.
And he’s like, I just went into flow.
You know, he began rescuing us under a hail of gunfire.
And so rounds are coming in, rockets are being fired overhead.
I’m barely conscious in our, and our medic just began pulling people out under the hail
of gunfire.
My memory, which it would take years to learn what actually happened because my memory was
not accurate was I felt like the rocks hitting me.
And then I kind of like looked up and was it waiting for a combatant to come into the,
the alley we were in and finish me off.
And then like somehow or another, I was pulled like 10, 20 feet away and brought into this
alleyway.
And then Kyle, the medic wound up putting tourniquets on my legs and saving my life.
But years after the fact, Kyle and I, we didn’t speak following this, this whole thing.
It was like so traumatic.
We, we came back to the United States separately.
We didn’t talk for four years, uh, it, it after with all of us.
But when I sat down with him, he would tell me that after the impact, after the, the detonation,
he said, I looked and I saw you on the ground and I thought at first you were on a sheet
of ice.
And he was like, that doesn’t make any sense because there’s, it’s not cold enough.
And he was like, that’s when I realized you were actually in a puddle of blood, you were
face down and I assumed you were dead.
And in terms of triaging the situation, I couldn’t work on you.
You were the lowest chance of survival.
And he was like, I left you to die.
You know, I thought you were dead already.
And then after the others had basically been pulled out, you know, somebody came back and
pulled me up.
And I remember like being sort of in and out of consciousness and this, this, my memory
of this, I think was fairly accurate because I got brought basically here’s the tea.
I got brought like to the stem of the tea, if you will, we’re still getting shot at.
And I have these, they’re called quick release tourniquets sitting on my kit.
They’re, they’re literally on you so that you can quickly access them to stop the bleeding
and you actually put them here to save your life.
And I didn’t have the strength to break the rubber bands because I’d lost so much blood.
And so I’m sitting there, no one’s with me yet.
I’ve just been dragged here and left and, you know, rounds are coming into the alleyway.
And I, I had this moment where I could see everything.
I could hear everything, but then my vision completely went.
I went blind.
I couldn’t see anything and I could only hear.
And then the hearing turned into what sounded like helicopter, like, then I went to nothing.
And I had this, this point where it’s, I’m in a void, can’t see anything, can’t hear
anything.
I know I’m alive still, but it’s, I compare it to when I was seven years old and I fell
rollerblading and I badly broke my collarbone.
And the second I hit the ground, I stood up and I said to my dad, I broke my collarbone.
And like I’m seven, I don’t think I ever, I ever even thought about the fact that I had
a collarbone or even knew that that was called a collarbone.
But it was like, your brain is like, yep, that’s what happened.
It’s something traumatic.
And you know it immediately.
And when I was in this blackness of not seeing and not hearing, I knew absolutely that this
is death.
Like, absolutely.
It was just matter of fact.
And I couldn’t believe it.
Like I just got married and me and my wife had put off the idea of having kids until
after this deployment.
And I’m like, I can’t believe that’s what’s going to happen.
I’m going to die here.
And one of my final thoughts was, I wonder if in the newspaper, will it say John B. Allen
like killed an action?
Or will it say Jonathan B. Allen?
It was like just weird thoughts of like, huh, you know, will my, will my obituary make a
national newspaper or just a local paper?
Like, when are they going to tell my wife?
It was just so weirdly matter of fact.
And it struck me that like, just as much as you know how to live without thinking too
hard about it, it’s the only thing we know.
You are ready to die.
You just don’t know it yet.
When you face that, I imagine you have some type of questioning of like, like, how do
I want to spend my time, life short, things like that?
Does that mental clarity kind of carry with you for a decade?
Honestly, it has oddly enough, even though I tried out and became a seal, I actually
felt like I was somebody that was constantly turning down opportunities in fear of failure.
And it was almost like overcompensation to go try out to be a seal to like internally
write that or balance that out.
Like I had shot down so many opportunities.
But after this near death experience, it’s like anytime there’s an opportunity, no matter
how big, no matter how scary, no matter the opportunity to fail, I do actively think about
the fact that like, bro, you’re going to die.
And it’s going to happen.
And it’s going to be matter of fact, and it’s going to feel like, holy shit, I can’t believe
I’m dying.
And that’s it.
That’s the end.
And that is the thing that I think about just like, not the fragility of life, but the matter
of factness of dying.
The same way we live every day, and we don’t think about it.
You don’t wake up and think, oh, I better live today, you just do it.
The same shit happens when you die, and it’s going to happen when you probably aren’t even
expecting it.
It’s like, there you go, you’re done.
And so I carry that.
And just to close the loop there, after I got metabactin was safe, they debrief you
after you’re taken out of country for an injury.
And they asked me like, so what are your takeaways now that you’ve survived this ordeal.
And I said to the commanding officer, I’m like, you know what, in real time, I watched what
Navy SEALs do under fire.
Not me.
I was completely worthless.
I’m like incapacitated on the ground.
But I watched millions and millions and millions of dollars in training, like in practice, and
it was beautiful.
It was like the training works.
And so that’s actually used as a quote by that guy.
He’s like, the training works.
This guy said so.
When you’re deciding to build Mr. Ballin, Mr. Ballin Studio, first of all, going into
business, going into content creation, and then building a media company, how did you
decide that was worthy, a worthy way to spend your life?
Actually I fell backwards into this.
I mean, I got out of the military in 2017.
It was a medical retirement that was due in large part to this injury I’ve just described.
I wound up deploying one more time in the team, but I had mental issues.
I had emotional issues.
I had real physical issues.
I was a complete psychopath.
By the time I was being effectively told, it’s time for you to wrap it up here in the Navy.
And when I got out, in an effort to get myself a civilian job, I wound up connecting with
this guy named Jordan Selic, who’s this investment banker in New York, turned on to Prenor, and
he’s like, man, you got a network.
And so I started going on LinkedIn and networking, didn’t even know what I was doing.
I was just randomly messaging random people.
But before long, I had met enough people that there was this idea to have a networking event
in New York.
And so I invited some people that were also leaving the SEAL teams to come with me to
meet some business people in New York.
It was pretty open-ended.
And I wound up giving a speech, if you will, at this weird event with 50 people.
We called it Elite Meet, was the name of the event.
And it was meant to just be this one-time event.
I gave this talk about, hey, in the room right now, we have these veterans, and here’s what
they bring to the table.
And Jordan, who was there with me, he talked about what the business people had and what
opportunities they were looking to fill.
And it was great.
A few people got hired as a result.
But ironically, nobody was asking me about getting a job, because the assumption was,
this is your job.
You run this networking event.
And so I ended up making that my job.
And for a couple of years, I was the CEO of Elite Meet.
But to shorten the story, the pandemic happened.
And our charity was largely event-based.
We literally had these big networking events that we would cultivate over many months.
And we couldn’t do events anymore, because no one could do anything, like the world shut
down.
And it was around that time that I was sort of looking at other pathways to live my life.
And I thought social media and content creation was just kind of fascinating as– I mean,
it’s one of the few places where it’s fairly obvious that, unless you really buy into this
idea that algorithms are totally leaning one way or the other, ultimately, content creation
is a big meritocracy.
Ultimately, you can create content with no platform, no nothing.
And if you create the right thing at the right time, it’s like a lottery ticket.
And it goes viral.
And then it’s your chance at that point to capitalize in whatever way you want to.
And I tried cashing that lottery ticket for a while, doing some cringe, like weird sketch
comedy on Instagram and LinkedIn.
And I was doing dance videos.
I’m like a middle-aged dude doing dance videos on TikTok, getting made fun of.
It was horrible.
It was like nothing worked.
I was like, boy, I got this.
I’m going to be a content creator.
But I had this document on my computer.
I had two documents that was like TikTok ideas or content ideas.
And on one document, it was like, I’m not kidding, like 50 pages of single space, just
bullets of ideas, of the types of content I could create.
And then I had this other document that had a single word on it, or it was like a single
bullet point.
And it just said Dyatlov Pass.
So Dyatlov Pass is this very famous mystery about these hikers in the 1950s who go missing
in the year old mountains.
And they’re very experienced hikers, and they wind up missing, and then they’re found.
And there’s these photos of their campsite, and it’s been desecrated, and their bodies
are found.
And they’re wearing each other’s clothes.
Body parts are missing.
They’re radioactive.
There was one person that was tucked up in a tree, and there was all these scratch marks
at the base of the tree.
This is like in the middle of the year old mountains.
It’s just snow and ice everywhere.
And that same night, there was a Soviet military movement happening, and one of the people
who was in charge who had no idea about these missing hikers made a report that he had never
made before that happened to coincide with the same time these hikers went missing, where
he said, “I see these lights that are basically coming up and down and flashing over this
section of the mountain pretty far away from our position, and that this guy was trying
to find out, is there another military movement happening, or is another country invading us?”
And so it turns out there wasn’t, and no one knows what those lights were, and no one knows
what happened to these hikers.
And so it’s this great mystery, and I thought it was fascinating, and that’s the content
that I like.
Like when I go on the internet to look at video, when I’m eating my lunch, that’s what
I’m going to watch.
I’m going to watch videos like that, and to date, I had been trying to mimic other people’s
content style.
I was just copying stuff and trying to hit it big on social media, and it was just not
going well at all.
How many other videos do you think you made before you had that kind of hit and you found
your lane?
Because I think this is really important.
A lot of people expect to just know they’re laying up front or hit early on, and even
if intellectually they realize, “I probably will have to do trial and error,” even failing
like seven, eight, nine times, eleven times in a row is completely demoralizing for the
average person.
So how many videos do you think you made before you popped off?
On TikTok specifically, there’s a slightly bigger version to this story because there
was a time where in between 2017, when I was medically retired and 2020, when I post this
video that goes viral, we were using social media specifically linked in to try to drum
up support for EliteMe.
We would basically tell stories in text format with a picture attached to it about veterans
that were leaving the military, and I would kind of like write stories about their experiences
and then anecdotally how they connected to why they’d be a good fit in these types of
industries.
It was very successful, not viral, but we raised half a million dollars on micro donations
that stemmed from these posts that we were doing, me and Jordan in particular, my co-founder.
And so I had gotten a taste of what social media can do.
Nothing like what Mr. Ballin is, but it was like using social media as a real tool, and
I remember sometime in 2018 and ’19, we’re doing all this content that’s really centered
on veterans and drawing donations for this charity.
And I decided to kind of selfishly in tandem begin posting very similar content, like anecdotal
military experience type of content, but my own, and with not the intention of drawing
support to EliteMe necessarily, although that was kind of like incidental.
It was more like building my own personal brand as like the Navy Seal.
And I drew the ire of the entire Navy Seal.
You know, dudes, seals hate that, don’t they?
Which is like super unfair because, you know, I’ve read the book about the guy who killed
bin Laden.
I forget his name.
And then there’s Goggins and a lot of these guys, my seal friends, they talk shit about
people who use Navy Seal as a story.
And I understand their perspective.
Their perspective is like, it’s us, like we don’t talk about this, we all did this together.
But then I understand the other perspective of like, yeah, but like you just served a
country and you almost died and like, you’re probably likely looking at like not that awesome
of a life after you retire because you’re bummed out about what you experienced.
And there’s a whole bunch of shit why like, you know, it doesn’t look awesome once you
once you get out.
And so I understand that perspective of like, dude, take what you can get and get ahead.
So it’s a challenge.
You’re in a tough spot.
Yeah.
And unfortunately, you know, it was a blessing and a curse because in a way when I began
posting, you know, text stories of, you know, how I was, I wasn’t intending to come off as
like Mr. Navy Seal, but that’s entirely how it came off.
And once I made that shift, I was like, I’m going to delete all the seal content and start
anew and just try my hand at something that is completely divorced from being at Seal.
I posted, I had probably hundreds of videos that were like, I mean, some did relatively
well, get a couple hundred or a thousand views, but like, nothing was turning into anything.
And but I also, I have this sort of obsessive quality when I want to do something.
It’s definitely what, you know, allowed me to become a seal.
It’s like, you, if you want to be, if you want to be really good at something, you kind
of have to only do that.
And I had this idea that like, I really want to do something with social media.
And so I was obsessed with it.
So despite the many failures over the course of probably, you know, six months or so, maybe
a year of just like awful cringe videos that went nowhere, I had like reached a point where
my wife was like, dude, you got to like figure something else out here.
This is not really going anywhere.
She was very diplomatic about it, but we got three young kids or we had two at the time.
But I was at this water park in Pennsylvania, this indoor water park with my wife and kids.
And on a whim, I was like, you know what, I’m just going to shoot a quick video, the
60 second talk about the Dialog Pass.
And so I film it in my hotel room and I leave my phone in the room because we’re going down
to the water park and I didn’t have a way to waterproof it, leave my phone, me and my
wife and kids, we go down to the water park, we’re there for a couple of hours, come back
and I couldn’t even open my phone.
There were so many notifications pouring in for this one video on my TikTok account that
had no following.
It was like this brand new account basically, and it had over five million views in a matter
of a few hours.
And I was like, holy cow, like as you guys have seen in this podcast, I love to talk,
love to tell stories.
Maybe I can just keep doing this on TikTok.
And so I went into this feverish like constantly telling stories on TikTok, three a day for
30 days and then was up to like seven million subscribers on TikTok and then shifted to
YouTube and here we are.
Well, let me tell you one thing.
This is going to tell you a little bit about you and a lot about me.
You told two stories just now.
Yeah.
You told a story of you representing our country nearly dying in war, being saved by the Navy
Seals facing a life or death experience.
And I was like, I like this story.
Then you talked about how you came home, you got on LinkedIn, you started using the easy
button to try to post the content and then you admitted you’re like, I didn’t want to
be doing that, but I was doing that and I didn’t care.
I wanted to do it anyways.
And then people shit on before it and it felt really bad and they were right.
And I was like, I ride with this guy.
I love this guy because there are so few people on earth.
There are a few people on earth who have lived through war and survived.
There might be even fewer people who could look at their actions and say, yeah, I don’t
think and not give themselves the benefit of the doubt, right?
Everybody gives themselves the benefit of that.
Everyone gives themselves the charitable interpretation.
I really love how honest you were about what you were doing and how that might have been
like something that you’re not proud of how you did it and how you, you know, ultimately
where it landed you, which was like through doing that, you’re like, all right, I want
to do storytelling, social media, maybe you kind of had a taste of it, but then you tried
to make it by copying what others were doing on TikTok.
And only when you did the thing that was like the intersection of like, you know, what you’re
good at and what the world is interested in.
You found that authentic point where now, you know, there’s nobody else doing what you
were doing or very few people were doing what you were doing there.
So I think there’s a lot to learn from that.
How big is your guys’ company now?
I know you have 40 people and you’re like, just, what do you have, eight, nine million
on YouTube and then three million on Facebook and I don’t even know how much on TikTok now,
a shit load.
What’s the Mr. Ball with foundation and, you know, 1099 contractors that end up rolling
up into W twos were almost around 55.
And then I would say fan wise, you know, he’s got nine plus billion on YouTube, eight plus
billion on TikTok, three and a half on Facebook, Snapchat, you name it.
So I think, oh, and then you have the podcast, which does, you know, eight figures in downloads
a month.
So I mean, I would say the, the range is about 25 million in fans just for the strange dark
mysterious.
So you built this empire quickly.
And you know, when I do these podcasts, I wake up and I think, all right, what am I
excited to talk about and learn about genuinely?
What am I actually selfishly interested because that’s what makes for the best podcast on
honestly, because it’s, that’s the conversation I really want to have.
And the one thing I wanted to learn from you was like, you, you built this media company
and you do these kind of like strange, dark and mysterious stories.
I don’t do those stories.
I’m not necessarily trying to build a media company, but there was one thing you said
that really stood out to me when I was kind of going down the rabbit hole.
And it’s around what is the mindset that’s helped you become successful that I could
take even if I’m trying to do something completely different, right?
How can I learn from you guys?
How can I learn from a seal and the mindset that, that it took to be successful there,
that it took to be successful with your media company that I might use elsewhere?
And you said something that was great.
You were on our buddy Chris’s podcast and you said, he was asking you about, you know,
being in a rut or how do you not get stuck?
And you said, you know, one thing I’m good at is if I find something, I have a basic
outline of what I want to do.
As long as something checks enough of the boxes, I don’t overthink it because you said most
people or, you know, other people could sit there and question what, you know, we have
something that, that you think might work and you could sit there and question and say,
is there some alternative that’s slightly better?
Is there something that would check more boxes or how would this work and get caught up in
the details?
I really love that mindset because I think that is a, every entrepreneur has been guilty
of that once if not is stuck there.
Can you talk a little bit about that mindset?
What did you mean by that?
And any maybe examples of how you approach that?
Sure.
So I mean, to be clear, definitely in terms of getting the business to 55 employees with
a slate of shows, that wasn’t me.
I might be the face of it, but Nick is absolutely the architect and the guy who runs the business.
But just relative to like, you know, my role in this company.
Yeah.
I think that what I was getting at with Chris Williamson was this idea that, you know,
we are inundated.
We like anybody online are inundated oftentimes with like these pretty tropish messages like,
you know, you just got to outwork the competition, you just got to put in, you just got to grind
like hustle culture.
Like it’s, it’s this whole idea of like, just get out there and like, just do stuff.
And it’s like, but what do I do is oftentimes the unspoken question of most people listening
is like, I get it.
Like I need to work really hard.
I need to care a lot about what I’m doing.
People get that.
But where a lot of people stumble from my perspective is just sounds corny, but like taking action.
But the idea is like, there are so many things that anybody at any time could pursue, whether
it’s career, relationship, hobby, you name it.
Like there’s an infinite number of things in some ways that you could, you could do.
And people are like, well, is it, what’s the ROI if I do this, whatever it is?
And I don’t think that I set out to be this way out of strategy.
I think it’s just who I am, which is like, if it’s good enough, just start doing it.
And so for me, like I had this idea and so I have a baseline of things I care about.
I want something to be hard enough that if I do it, I’ll feel really proud of doing that
thing.
Like if it’s easy, it’s not going to make me excited at the end, like it needs to be
a challenge.
So something that’s hard, something that comes with some level of like, this is going to sound
vain, but I think we’re all pretty human here, some level of recognition for doing the thing.
It’s not the reason you do it, but you do want people to be aware that you struggled and
built this thing, you did this thing, you own this thing, whatever it is.
So it’s like, has to be hard, has to have some level of people being aware.
This is again, my baseline, people being aware of me accomplishing it.
And then also, I want to have some level of enjoyment doing it.
The Navy SEAL teams are a good example of one of those things that checked those boxes
for me.
Like prior to trying out for the SEAL teams, I had sort of got my act together and managed
to graduate college.
There was a time where I definitely was not on that path, my mom wrote my college essay
to the college that accepted me, my grades were so bad, but the essay was so good.
She’s a professional writer that the college actually contacted me and was like, your grades
are not enough, but boy, that essay, you’re in the door, buddy.
And I immediately like got, I got in all this trouble with my first, anyways, I was on this
path to like flunking out of college and being that guy that totally peaked in high school.
But when I was back home in Quincy, Massachusetts, just south of Boston mass, I was like in my
mom’s basement after basically flunking out of school and getting in trouble.
I wound up realizing that, hey, if you want to graduate college, you got to do it yourself.
You need to own your fuck up and go to school and do it.
And so I managed to graduate.
I took some local classes, went back to the old university, I graduated, I get my degree,
but I had no idea what I wanted to do after college.
Like none.
I majored in philosophy with a minor in English because there was no pre-law degree because
I sort of convinced myself that maybe I’ll be a lawyer.
I was like, what am I going to do?
And I just, I had this feeling of like, well, man, it was really cool to like pick myself
up by the bootstraps and like graduate on my own strength here.
And I began looking for opportunities to kind of continue doing stuff like that.
And that’s where I kind of developed this mindset of look for things that are hard, look for
things that come with some level of recognition and things that I might enjoy doing.
And I found the SEAL teams.
Like I had always been kind of enamored with the military.
A lot of my classmates in high school, they, after high school joined the Marines and went
off to fight in the wars.
And I actually always sort of felt a little bit guilty that I went to college on my mom’s
essay and pissed it all away and yeah, I graduated, but I always had this sort of like deep down
guilt that I didn’t, you know, volunteer at the time that many of my friends did.
And so I kind of idolized them.
I also looked at the SEAL teams as being this thing that like just about anybody, you know,
within reason can try out for the SEAL teams.
It’s not something that requires a whole lot to get in the door.
I’m generalizing, but it is relatively easy to try out.
But it is exceptionally hard to graduate.
And so perfect.
It’s got this incredible challenge.
And then if you become a SEAL, well, guess what?
No one’s going to be like, yeah, but John screwed up in college.
And it just felt like, wow, like that checks every box for me.
And I went that way.
And I became a SEAL.
And then, you know, after, after the military, I still had that kind of mindset of looking
for things that I wanted to do that would be hard, some level of recognition and enjoy
and have some enjoyment.
And I thought social media was it.
It just felt like a big challenge, you know, to, to like get noticed by the world.
So here’s the deal.
I made most of my money from a newsletter business.
It was called The Hustle.
And it was a daily newsletter at scale to millions of subscribers.
And it was the greatest business on earth.
The problem with it was that I had close to 40 employees and only three of them were actually
doing any writing.
The other employees were growing the newsletter, building out the tech for the platform and
selling ads.
And honestly, it was a huge pain in the butt.
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I know that like, I think your father is a, is a big shot journalist from the Boston
Globe, I think, and your, your mom and sister are as well.
Were you motivated by like just creating cool shit or were you motivated at all by money?
Cause I haven’t, I mean, there’s this phrase like king or rich, so it’s like, do you want
to be like famous?
Do you want to be like famous or do you want to be rich?
Um, I mean, to be honest, like when, for example, when I was trying really hard post deleting
all the seal stuff, like when I was trying to like find something on TikTok between dancing
and cringe stuff I was doing, I don’t think I necessarily had an exact goal in mind because
I truthfully didn’t know where it was going to take me.
I had low expectations.
I think that I looked at it because I was 30 at the time, you know, I’m not like an
18 year old.
I’m not throwing shade on 18 year olds, but when I was 18, if I was doing social media,
it was for fame, like be cool, like be the cool guy.
But when I was doing it, I actually was mostly probably leaning towards money in terms of
make this a livelihood.
I have kids.
I’m married.
Like this would be a really fun way to make a living, but I definitely did not have the
thought that this will be an empire worth millions of dollars.
I was thinking like, boy, wouldn’t it be great if this supplemented my income?
You know, and then only when, you know, this really frankly blew up.
I actually, I was somewhere in between recognition and money in the sense that I clearly saw.
This is when Nick comes into the picture and I’m like about to give it all up and we end
up kind of like sinking and we’re like, okay, we’re going to build this thing.
It was more like the fun of the challenge, which includes if you’re successful, you can
be famous.
If you’re successful, you can make lots of money.
You can have generational wealth.
But for me, like more than anything, it was this idea that like, I want to do something
that’s really fucking hard to do.
I would say of all the baseline elements I gave you, those are the things most drawn
to often times.
And so that is the thing.
If it was easy at a certain point to be Mr. Ballin and, and grow in notoriety and make
more money, I wouldn’t be interested in doing it.
Those are byproducts of the challenge that I often seek.
Sean, whenever I hang out with guys like these guys, these ex military guys, I feel inspired.
I also feel super fucking soft.
Do you, do you feel that same way?
Dude, that’s not just with military guys.
I feel that with the average guys.
This is of course.
Yes, I feel that way.
Well, I like what he said about like having a highest order bit, you know, like the orienting
function.
Like what is your true north?
And his true north is basically like, it sounds like you’re like looking for giant
mountains to go climb like summit.
You’re like, what’s the, what’s the hard thing that I would feel proud of myself if I did.
And then I know other people would be proud and respect me too if they did it.
And as a byproduct of doing the hard thing, I’m sure there’s reward.
Yes.
And John’s always been like that.
Yeah.
Exactly.
And it sounds like the seals like that’s conquering social media, although it sounds goofy like
TikTok or whatever.
It’s one of the most competitive merit based things you could go compete in.
What’s a race that a billion people are competing in, you know, that that’s one of the few.
And so like Sam, what is your, what’s your version of that?
What’s the highest order, you know, the orienting thing when you decide, what are you going
to, what are you going to devote your time and your talents to?
Do you know?
Mine was, mine’s empty.
It’s still empty, which is, it was just like money to provide for my family.
But once you get past that, like it is quite, you’re empty when you don’t have that.
And I still, I’m still oftentimes I’m like, I need this.
I need direction.
And so that’s why when I hear these guys, I’m like, I feel a sense of envy, a bit that
they have a direction, but I feel a slightly directionless to you.
At the beginning it was like prove myself early twenties, then like late twenties was
like, you know, I’d like to have like a million dollars in the bank, you know, like some money
became like the thing.
It’s a million, 10 million.
And the, the richer person I met, I would be like, Oh yeah, I need that much money.
Then early thirties popping out kids, I realized I went to lifestyles like, Oh, actually it’s
a certain amount of money, but actually it’s, I don’t want more money with more stress and
time.
I want like the maximum amount of time, least amount of stress, but still be able to do
whatever the hell I want.
So enough money to do that.
So that was what I would call lifestyle.
And now I’m 36 and in the last year, I basically shifted that north again.
And by the way, I don’t think it’s bad to shift to north.
I think you have seasons of life and chapters of life and you should eat.
They’re all not all the same, you know, like having a lot of fun was really important in
college for me.
And that was the true north.
Right now it’s basically enjoyment.
So what I’m trying to do is figure out what is the most me thing I could do.
Like you were saying, these are the stories I’m interested in and you come from background.
I think your parents are like storytellers and it’s probably something you learned through
osmosis.
I think about it like this.
What can I do that’s just simply me pushed out to the world?
That is my most my highest orienting function.
And then the filter is basically, am I doing this because doing it is the reward or am I
doing this for some future rewards?
And most of my life I did things for future rewards.
I went to college so I could get a good job and I got a good job so that I could make
some money.
And I got some money so that I could buy this thing.
Everything was this future payoff.
And now I’m like, oh wait, I don’t need to do that trade.
That’s a little silly.
Why don’t I just do things with the act of doing it as the reward?
If there happens to be other byproducts in the future, great.
But I can’t do things that I don’t really want to do or kind of suck today because I
think they might pay off in the future.
I don’t do those anymore.
This podcast is the best thing I’ve ever done.
And when I started it, I was basically like, I’m going to lose, I plan, I wrote down in
my plan, this should lose about $10,000 to $20,000 a year.
I’m comfortable with that.
So it’s like the only non, not only just won’t make me rich, I planned for it to make me slightly
poorer every year doing it.
And ironically, this is the thing that’s done the best.
It’s been the most successful of all the projects.
And I’m willing to do it forever.
This is the only thing I do that I’m not looking to exit, right?
Like I’m not looking to sell this and then I’ll be able to relax and retire.
It’s like, no, no, I kind of want to keep doing the pot.
You’d have to pay me to stop.
Do you guys have for Mr. Ball and Studios, do you guys have this North Star in terms
of how many people you’re going to reach or how big the company’s going to get?
Or is this a business that you’re like, man, one day we could sell this for like $200 million?
Yeah.
What do you label the top of the mountain or like what’s the height of the mountain you’re
trying to climb here?
The North Star I would say for the company as far as, you know, being a manager, it’s
always what’s your client’s North Star, that’s your North Star.
And then as CEO, it’s still that, but it’s what’s, you know, what’s John and I’s North
Star from the studio, his vision.
And I implement and execute.
Well, that’s the noble sounding thing.
John, what’s the dirty selfish, ego driven goal you have?
Yeah.
Surely you guys are, surely you guys are sit down and you’re like, man, I think in five
years we could do a hundred million in revenue.
Yeah.
My New Year’s resolution is to like, you know, build healthy habits, but there’s the dirty
selfish goal of like, I want to take my shirt off and see some abs, baby.
Like, come on, I won’t say that, but like, that’s what, that’s part of it for sure.
So I will say that before all of this happened, before I was in college, I always aspired
to be, I played baseball growing up, not like at a very high level.
I played through high school, but I was like really good in my hometown, you know, at
one point I, I really believed that I could potentially play for the Boston Red Sox.
That’s like my favorite team.
And I…
So now you want to own them?
There’s, I don’t think that is, in terms of a selfish goal, yeah.
Like that would be the thing.
I would want to own a piece of the Red Sox, but actually I was going to an analogy and
then I was going to double back to that.
When that dream was shattered, sometime I remember my senior year of high school, I just like
said it out loud.
I’m like, yeah, I’m probably not going to play for the Boston Red Sox.
And I was like, no, fuck, like, that’s true.
Like I’m not.
The dream is over.
But I always just like thought about, like that was the dream that, that was my childhood
dream, like pitch for the Boston Red Sox.
That was it.
And so now like that we’re at this place, you know, Ballin Studios is at this place
where, you know, when he’s talking about recruiting the best storytellers in the world, it’s actually
a little bit different than recruiting.
I look at us, and this is my, take my shirt off, show you the truth.
I look at us as like, I’ll put it this way, if you, if you’re a baseball player, you’re
an amateur baseball player like I was, you don’t aspire to be the best independent baseball
player in the world, that you’re going to be by yourself, just being the best.
You want to play for the fucking Boston Red Sox or the Yankees or whatever it is you want
to play for.
Like that’s, that’s the goal.
Like that’s the peak of baseball is playing for one of those teams for me, the Red Sox.
And so I love this idea of like thinking about that dream I had and kind of angling it so
it’s applicable to storytellers where there really isn’t like a really prominent like that’s
where the fucking storytellers go.
Like that’s the place, that’s the stamp of approval that is the ultimate place.
If you’re a storyteller in some capacity, if you are under the Ballin Studios umbrella,
boom, you’ve made it.
Like that’s the equivalent.
I want us to be that.
I want to be the Boston Red Sox equivalent for storytellers.
And so I don’t know how we’re going to get there, but I want that level of prestige assigned
to Ballin Studios relative to storytellers.
And then with that, I want to own a fucking piece of the Red Sox.
That’s a great, that’s a great goal.
All right.
So give me, give me something I can use today, meaning you’re a great storyteller.
You’re trying to build the team of the greatest storytellers.
Tell me, teach me something that will make me a better storyteller today.
What’s one thing you could teach me to make me a better storyteller?
It’s something that people love and hate that tune into my content.
This is like, it’s kind of a polarizing thing.
But one of the things that I’ll do when I’m telling a story, if it’s not my own, if it’s
somebody else’s story, which is like 99% of the stories I’ve done, is I don’t just resuscitate
the facts of the story.
I, and with a very incredible team of people, it’s not just me anymore, we will like inhabit
that story.
It’s, I don’t, I have scripts that sit next to me, but like as my producer who’s right
over here will attest to, I’m not reading the script.
It’s a matter of producing a script that I can then like become a part of.
I will begin espousing what people are thinking or what people could have been thinking or
what could have been said in certain situations that I have no way of knowing.
But I am so committed to telling that story that I have learned it both outside as much
as I can insides that when you’re hearing it, it would almost be like it was my story.
Like the level of commitment, if you’re going to tell a story, own the fucking story.
Like it enter the story and don’t leave until it’s done.
People that like tell you a story and it sounds like they’re just telling something
they heard.
That’s not storytelling.
That’s just regurgitating something you heard.
You want to be a fucking storyteller and habit the story full commitment to the point where
you are literally acting out pieces of that story for your audience.
Damn, I’m hyped up Sam.
You are the man.
Sam, are you feeling what I’m feeling right now?
Yeah.
John, I once fell in love with this girl in Australia.
It’s called love.
And I fell in love with this girl in Australia and she was a dancer.
She wanted you to come out dancing with her.
I said, no, no, no.
I’m not a dancer.
You’re a dancer.
You do that.
I’ll watch you over here on the side.
She said, no, go over here.
And she was like, okay.
Hand on my hip.
And I put my hand on her hip.
And she goes, let me stop you right there.
I was like, oh man, I already fucked up.
This dancer getting his move.
Oh, no.
And she goes, if you ever touch someone, touch them with intent.
And I feel like that’s what you just told me.
If you’re going to tell a story, tell the story with some intent.
You got to touch with intent.
You got to touch these stories.
I love that.
This woman sounds awesome.
She also told me she wanted to never get married and have a man in every port.
And I was like, I don’t know if that’s a figure of speech or just a lifestyle choice.
I don’t really know what’s going on, but I think you’re a little too adventurous for me.
Dude, you guys are awesome.
Your team’s saying you got to wrap up and we appreciate y’all.
I’ve really admired you guys from afar.
Come on.
Yep.
Thank you for having us.
This is great.
All right.
That’s the pod.
I feel like I can rule the world.
I know I could be what I want to put my all in it like no days off on the road.
Let’s travel.
Never looking back.
[BLANK_AUDIO]
Episode 632: Sam Parr ( https://x.com/theSamParr ) and Shaan Puri ( https://x.com/ShaanVP ) talk to John Allen ( https://x.com/MrBallen ) and Nick Witters ( https://x.com/themrwitters ), the minds behind MrBallen and Ballen Studios.
—
Show Notes:
(0:00) Being a creator on hard mode
(7:19) Slow is smooth and smooth is fast
(8:44) Being hit by a grenade in combat
(17:03) Elite Meet
(18:29) John’s TikTok ideas bank
(21:42) The SEALs turn on John
(25:02) How telling 1 story launched MrBallen
(28:18) Getting unstuck
(35:02) Be rich or be a king?
(40:44) The North Star for Ballen
(44:00) 1 thing to be a better storyteller
—
Links:
• MrBallen on YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/c/MrBallen
• MrBallen on TikTok – https://www.tiktok.com/@mrballen
• Ballen Studios – https://ballenstudios.com/
• Elite Meet – https://elitemeetus.org/
• Dyaltov Pass TikTok – https://www.tiktok.com/@mrballen/video/6799049964937809157
—
Check Out Sam’s Stuff:
• Hampton – https://www.joinhampton.com/
• Ideation Bootcamp – https://www.ideationbootcamp.co/
• Copy That – https://copythat.com
• Hampton Wealth Survey – https://joinhampton.com/wealth
• Sam’s List – http://samslist.co/
—
Check Out Shaan’s Stuff:
Need to hire? You should use the same service Shaan uses to hire developers, designers, & Virtual Assistants → it’s called Shepherd (tell ‘em Shaan sent you): https://bit.ly/SupportShepherd
My First Million is a HubSpot Original Podcast // Brought to you by The HubSpot Podcast Network // Production by Arie Desormeaux // Editing by Ezra Bakker Trupiano
