From Nonprofit Founder To Building A $300M Pilates Business

0:00:04 All right, everyone. Today’s episode is Anne Malume and started this company called Saladcore. Saladcore
0:00:08 is a Pilates studio where she bootstrapped it. In the first year, she did something like a million
0:00:13 and a half in revenue. It cost like $100,000 to start and she eventually sold this company in
0:00:18 year nine for something like $350 million. And she goes through this entire story. But if you’re
0:00:24 listening, I think the really amazing part is to copy some of her attributes because I get done
0:00:29 listening to her and I’m like, I need to step it up in terms of confidence or in terms of being
0:00:36 passionate about something. And in fact, there’s like, in minute 30, I honestly teared up hearing
0:00:40 some of her stories. So check it out. And by the way, if you are interested in Anne, I’m going to
0:00:45 give a plug for Money Wise, this podcast I did with her where she went deep on her finances. So how
0:00:49 much money she spends, how much money she made, everything. And because I liked her so much
0:00:53 on that podcast, I wanted her to come on here. So check it out. And I hope you guys enjoy this
0:01:07 episode and let me know in the comments. Let’s do a little background. So I think you had a normal
0:01:13 job, but then started a nonprofit called Back on My Feet. Is that right? Yeah. And what was the
0:01:17 original idea? I don’t know if you know much about how the homeless system works, but many of the
0:01:22 shelters in the major cities, you can go live there for 30 days and then you get kicked out.
0:01:27 They give you 30 days to get your crap together, which is not very much time for someone who isn’t
0:01:32 going through homelessness, to be honest, to sort of start over, go back in the city, get back in
0:01:39 the system. 95% of the folks we worked with were dealing with addiction on some level. So, you know,
0:01:42 Sam, I know a little bit of your background. And I think I mentioned on our last conversation,
0:01:49 my dad’s an addict. And when you ask my dad, Mark, what was your addiction? And he’ll kind of look
0:01:56 at you and say everything because my dad doesn’t understand moderation. You know, he had unfortunately
0:02:00 instances with drugs and alcohol. He went into inpatient program before it was five. So I don’t
0:02:07 really remember this, but that seemed to do the trick. He hasn’t had a drink or used drugs in 37,
0:02:13 eight years. Unfortunately gambling then surfaced for my dad when I was a teenager and he struggled
0:02:19 with that. And now my dad fishes, he fishes every day for hours a day. But you have to find some
0:02:26 place to put this thing. And I had felt like, if you can master the drugs and alcohol, you know,
0:02:33 and try to get away from the bad behaviors, having an addictive personality can actually be beneficial
0:02:38 because when you get into something, you know, you are in it and you kind of obsess over it.
0:02:45 So running was this great alternative because there is no end. You can always do more. It’s
0:02:51 there for you. You only need a pair of shoes. It was a really great substitute for a lot of these
0:02:55 guys who were still chasing the high. I don’t know if you know this, but there’s a correlation of
0:03:01 people who work out who actually tend to drink more because you’re chasing the dopamine. You’re
0:03:06 looking for these opportunities to get the elevated serotonin spikes. So that’s why, you know,
0:03:10 yeah, working out can be a great option for people who are struggling with addiction.
0:03:17 Marketing used to be fun. Content was simpler to create. The leads were easier to capture.
0:03:21 And now with HubSpot’s new marketing and content hub, you can generate more content,
0:03:25 more leads and next level results. So marketing can be fun again with content tools like
0:03:29 content remix, which will turn your existing content into all new assets. Lead scoring,
0:03:33 which shines a light on which leads are most likely to purchase. And the analytics suite,
0:03:36 which will give you out of the box reports and a goldmine of AI powered insights.
0:03:41 It’s quick to get your results. It’s easy to use and it connects all your data. So put the fun
0:03:45 back in your marketing funnel with HubSpot. Visit hubspot.com to get started for free.
0:03:50 Yeah, basically addictions. I mean, I don’t know shit. I just didn’t, I know my situation,
0:03:55 but addictions don’t go away. They just get transferred. You know what I mean?
0:04:02 And so our thought was, you know, we can really help to change the emotional identity and get them
0:04:07 to like themselves, believe in themselves, put them in a positive support network,
0:04:12 and turn them into somebody who is a runner and athlete, responsible, reliable,
0:04:19 and then we can go advocate for them at jobs that need employees who have those types of
0:04:25 characteristics. So Marriott became the largest employer of back on my feet, not because we were
0:04:30 a charity, Sam, but because we actually had good candidates for them who were so appreciative
0:04:38 to have a job in a respectable place where they got benefits, paid pretty well, and opportunity
0:04:43 for growth. By the way, what do you do like your first day? So you just quit your other job.
0:04:50 It’s a Monday. You just walked to the corner and like, Hey, everyone. Or I guess the night before,
0:04:55 like meet me here tomorrow at 530. Like I don’t know if you have running shoes or not, but like
0:04:58 make sure you know what I mean? Like what do you do like the first like five days?
0:05:03 Yeah. So I was a little more organized than, than that. I knew I needed the shelter to,
0:05:07 you know, work with me and give me permission. So I emailed the, I found the director of the
0:05:13 shelter online. I emailed him. He didn’t email me back. Took a little while for him to respond to
0:05:20 me, but I kept like badgering him. And, you know, he tries to think of the nicest way to tell me
0:05:24 that like, this isn’t going to work. These guys have bigger problems. They’re not like interested
0:05:30 in running. And I was very persuasive. I’m like, if you could please just meet me. Like I literally
0:05:35 have ran by this shelter for two years. I’m not a very religious person, even though the shelter
0:05:41 was religious, but like, I am being called to do this. Please meet with me and let me explain to
0:05:47 you why I feel so compelled. So he did. And Sam, the crazy thing was this shelter.
0:05:51 That’s such a great line. By the way, I’m being called to do this. That’s good.
0:05:55 Yeah, but it’s true. I mean, yeah, totally. But it’s also a good, like it’s like, that’s like a,
0:05:59 that’s like a great argument. Right. And so he met with me and this shelter, again,
0:06:03 I didn’t know anything about this shelter. It was called the Sunday Breakfast Rescue Mission.
0:06:07 But when people enter this shelter, they, the guys have rules and they are not supposed to
0:06:13 have any contact with women. Zero. They are there to, you know, no drugs, obviously, no alcohol,
0:06:19 they have a curfew, every rules, no women. And this guy, Mr. McMillan, like I owe a lot to him
0:06:25 because he trusted me, believed in me and was like, okay, I’m going to break our rules.
0:06:30 I’m going to allow this woman to come in here and build relationships with these guys. And he’s
0:06:35 like, I’m not going to tell them and that there’s some, you know, young woman who wants to come
0:06:39 run with them. I’m going to let them, the, the participant or the members of the shelter at the
0:06:44 time, ask them if they are interested in joining a running club. That’s it. And if they say yes,
0:06:50 I’ll let you do it. And, you know, I’m like waiting and waiting and a couple weeks go by and I finally
0:06:55 get a response that says, all right, here’s the names, nine guys. These guys want to run. And I’m
0:07:01 like, awesome. I need their shoe sizes. So I go to a local running store. I get the shoes donated.
0:07:07 Again, I can be very convincing. It’s one of my superpowers. I get them to give me all new shoes
0:07:12 because I don’t want that. I don’t want to show up there in my new shoes and then I give these guys,
0:07:17 you know, crappy old shoes because they’re homeless. I just felt like that’s going to say,
0:07:22 I’m better than you. And I didn’t want them to feel that way. So I got shoes, shirts, socks,
0:07:27 shorts. And I went up there and met them. I got to meet them in the chapel for the first time.
0:07:33 I introduced myself. And then I made them sign a contract. And it just said, if you’re going to
0:07:38 join the running club, you got to show up three days a week, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and you
0:07:43 have to be on time. You need to come up with a positive attitude and you need to be willing to
0:07:50 respect and support your teammates. And everybody like sat up straighter in their chair. They were
0:07:56 waiting, at least what it felt like for me. They were waiting for someone to tell them they were
0:08:01 capable of excellence and expecting. I didn’t say to them, you know, just show up if you can. It must
0:08:06 be tough living in here. Just, you know, do your best. If you’re, please try not to be too late.
0:08:12 It was like, these are the expectations. And if you can’t agree to them, then don’t join the club.
0:08:17 And if you can’t agree to them once you do join, you know, you’re going to get kicked off the team.
0:08:24 We have to adhere to principles. So everybody showed up day one. And we all ran a mile, like
0:08:29 some of the guys cruised and got it done really quickly. And then there was George, who took a
0:08:35 while, like he was struggling. But we made a rule that day that nobody finished the run on their own.
0:08:40 So everybody went back to get George. And we all like brought him into the finish line together.
0:08:46 And that like first day, it was like, okay, like this is the group. And all the media was there
0:08:51 for day one. Like I wanted to get the word out. Everybody had to come and see this for themselves.
0:08:56 So the Philadelphia Inquirer, the Daily News, the local ABC, NBC, every, I mean,
0:08:58 it was all of a sudden like this thing was everywhere.
0:09:01 All right, guys. So listen up. We’re doing something a little bit different here.
0:09:06 So we had this guy named Mr. Bollin. Mr. Bollin is one of my favorite people on earth.
0:09:09 If you have been on YouTube or Tik Tok, you probably know who Mr. Bollin is.
0:09:14 So he has tens of millions of followers and he’s built this massive business on it.
0:09:16 He’s probably the best storyteller I’ve ever heard of my life, to be honest.
0:09:20 And he did this amazing podcast with us that we’re going to release soon.
0:09:24 We’re not releasing the episode right away, but we are going to give it to our true fans.
0:09:28 And if you are one of those true fans and you do want this interview, we have a link below.
0:09:33 So check it out. Click the link in the description below and you can listen to it right away.
0:09:38 Now back to the show. Did people cover you because you’re like a charismatic,
0:09:41 like you got, I don’t know if you had your hair like that,
0:09:45 but like you look like a celebrity when you have your hair like your short blonde hair
0:09:49 and you look dope and you’re charismatic. Were they covering you because you were
0:09:53 charismatic and awesome or because this idea was so novel? Like how do you,
0:09:57 how does someone who’s not as cool get all this type of press?
0:10:00 Well, I think I’ll give you this, this, this straight answer and cause this is,
0:10:04 you know, probably no bullshit podcast. The video and the media was like,
0:10:07 here’s this white lawn girl from North Dakota,
0:10:15 putting herself in the middle of these homeless shelters, like running with all of these men.
0:10:20 Like the camera, the story, everything about it was like, wait, what?
0:10:24 They just kind of had to know the background. And then you add in the fact that my
0:10:29 dad is an addict and I’m so drawn to these guys and I could never help my dad and
0:10:33 running helped me. So now I feel like I can help people who remind me of my dad,
0:10:37 you know, through this. And yeah, so I think it all just worked. And then once they got to,
0:10:42 I mean, the homelessness itself, right? People are like, wait, the people who are homeless are
0:10:49 actually running that alone made people make their brains be like, wait, what? And then add in,
0:10:53 you know, the young white girl from North Dakota, like, what’s the connection here?
0:10:58 So the media truly ate it up. And it was coming from such a peer place for me of like, I’m trying
0:11:05 to heal myself from 10 years of nothing coming good from my dad’s addictions and tearing apart
0:11:12 my family. And now I get to use all that pain as fuel to help people. And, you know, meeting some
0:11:18 of the guys in our program, I really think about those first nine guys, because the majority of
0:11:24 them were charismatic and lovely. And like, you just can’t help but root for them. So once the
0:11:30 media started to talk to Mike and to George and to James and learn their stories and the fact that
0:11:35 they’re out there working hard, I mean, it’s the ultimate underdog story. And volunteers started
0:11:40 showing up, this group started to grow. And it was like, I’m like, this is an opportunity,
0:11:45 you know, Tony Robbins talks a lot about these windows that open. And like, this is my window.
0:11:50 And I had just taken a job at Comcast, I was supposed to go work there in their government
0:11:56 affairs department, six figure job, like, everything that my college degree, graduate
0:12:01 degree was setting me up for this Comcast opportunity was it. And I remember going,
0:12:07 they asked me to go to a baseball game with a lot of like some senators and people on the
0:12:12 political sort of world were in town and Comcast was hosting them. And I went that night and I
0:12:18 was like, I am so bored out of my mind, there’s no way that I can go take this job. Like, all I
0:12:23 want to be doing is hanging out with the back of my beat members. All I thinking about is like,
0:12:27 this organization and how I grow it and vision. And so I called them the day I was supposed to
0:12:32 start. And I thanked them for the six weeks that they gave me from time off of my other
0:12:37 nonprofit job before I was supposed to start. And I was like, I can’t take this job. Like,
0:12:43 I have found what I’m supposed to do with my life. And I’m really sorry, I know it’s the day
0:12:52 before, but like, I got to follow my gut on this. How old are you? I was 26. 26. Yeah. I mean, again,
0:12:57 I’m asking all adults in my life, I’m thinking of doing this, like, what do you think and
0:13:02 everybody’s like, are you nuts? Like for your job, like, you’re going to run with people in
0:13:08 homeless shelters for your job. And I’m like trying to explain the vision, you know, and nobody
0:13:12 got it. You know, my mom thinks I’m like, irresponsible. She’s worse. You know, like,
0:13:18 what are you thinking? My dad’s concerned for my safety. All my mentor boss people are like,
0:13:24 and you don’t even have any savings. I had, I had no money. Nothing. What was the first year’s revenue?
0:13:28 Or how are you? I’m sure I raised a million bucks in the first year. I was no shit,
0:13:33 really. So you’re a machine. Oh, yeah. And I would ask, I mean, I would ask anybody and
0:13:41 everybody for money. And I knew who to ask Sam. I figured out that I had to find the executives
0:13:48 who were runners in companies that could give. And so I would only meet, like Larry Solomon
0:13:52 was my first, I had a huge article in runners world. It was awesome. But but I’ll also send you
0:13:58 that. Larry lived in Philly. He was the COO of one of Accenture’s vertical businesses. He mailed
0:14:04 me amazing article, you know, rooting for you. Well, I took one look at Larry’s title and I was
0:14:11 like, can we please have coffee? I love to tell you more. Right. Larry is still a very good friend
0:14:17 today. But he, we met and I was just like, I need your help. I want you to sit on the board. Larry,
0:14:22 I just become a runner. And I’m like, you know, I really want to build this thing. And I want to
0:14:27 make it big and blah, blah, blah. So he came on board and Larry, like Accenture, right? They had
0:14:33 massive, Marriott was a client, Vivo Bakeries, AT&T. They had so many tentacles. And I’m just like,
0:14:38 I just need you to introduce me. I will go in and close the deal, but I need you to introduce me
0:14:44 to the big players so that they can write the check. And I don’t waste weeks or months climbing the
0:14:48 meeting with the marketing coordinator. And then the marketing director, and they just keep passing
0:14:54 me up the chain. Like, I’ll never be able to raise money fast enough. So, yeah. And every meeting I
0:15:01 went to, I made a specific ask whether it was like, I need $20,450. And here’s why. And I need you to
0:15:07 pick me to three more people. And then I would also learn that I would, that like letting me come and
0:15:12 speak at your corporate event or something, I was like, Oh, that’s, I did that one time. And I’m
0:15:17 like, Oh, this is really powerful. Like now I get the whole company, you know, excited about back on
0:15:23 my feet because it was just so innovative. So what’s your pitch to me? Let’s say, let’s say I’m an
0:15:28 executive, you know, I probably spent a few hundred grand a year giving it away to causes. I care
0:15:33 about single moms, I care about animals, homeless guys, I mean, I guess that’s like kind of important,
0:15:38 but like, why should I like give a shit about you? Well, for one, Sam, I would ask if you, you know,
0:15:43 are you a runner? And hopefully you would say yes. I would say so you, so you understand that, right?
0:15:48 So if you’re an executive of this, perfect. So if you’re an executive of this company,
0:15:54 you understand how important culture is and how important culture is for performance and making
0:15:59 sure your people feel appreciated and valued here. A lot of our members grew up in households and
0:16:03 environments and neighbors where they didn’t have that before. And I can tell you being out there
0:16:09 firsthand with all of these guys, they are some of the hardest working individuals I have ever
0:16:14 met before, but no one’s given them a chance. And if you don’t have respect for people who are out
0:16:20 there at 530 in the morning trying to put their life on the right track and doing the work and the
0:16:25 effort, no one’s running their miles for them. They are doing it on their own. And it’s a pretty
0:16:34 compelling site to see. And I can guarantee you if you give us a check, not only will, you know,
0:16:37 the money go to helping these individuals in my life, but we’ll get your employees involved,
0:16:42 you know, talk about a cause where, you know, employees can get actually involved on the
0:16:48 ground floor running with us. We do a skill set training, right, where we teach these guys about
0:16:53 financial literacy, helping them train them for, you know, what their next opportunity could be.
0:16:58 But I can tell you from all the other companies we work with, we have higher employee engagement
0:17:01 with back on my feet than people have had in any other nonprofit that they’ve worked with.
0:17:11 You make me emotional, because like on this podcast and in my life, I care about making money,
0:17:15 you know, I care about businesses, and we’re going to talk about solid core and all the
0:17:22 traditional success that you’ve had. It just seems, you know, like, I remember being in the
0:17:26 hospital recently, because I had like a kidney stone and I felt like I was dying. And this like
0:17:30 Nigerian nurse was like taking care of me. And like in my head, I’m like,
0:17:35 you probably have seen five of me today. And like, you don’t even make that much money, whatever,
0:17:40 but like, you’re making my life so much better right now. Like you have, you’re calming me down.
0:17:45 And like, you are making this stay the best as opposed to the doctor who makes way more money,
0:17:51 but like he’s just in and out. And that’s sort of kind of like, how I feel when I talk about this
0:17:56 nonprofit stuff, which is making rich people richer is kind of insignificant compared to
0:17:59 giving someone a shot or like doing something that actually matters. And so
0:18:08 did you get equal fulfillment pursuing solid core for the sake of like wealth creation versus
0:18:16 what you were doing with back on my feet? I had a lot of fun building solid core. And I feel really
0:18:22 good about how I’ve made my wealth over the last 10 years. I mean, I get to make people’s lives
0:18:28 happier, healthier, and help people be more confident. And my team, you know, there are
0:18:36 thousands of people who work at solid core, who love their job, who, you know, we pay people really
0:18:42 well, I think we pay higher than any other fitness organization, our coaches on a per class basis,
0:18:47 like there are coaches who make over 300 bucks a class, because we’ve always done a revenue
0:18:53 share model. And I have just never believed Sam that it has to be a zero sum game. Like, yeah,
0:19:00 should I have made the most money? Sure, because I took all the risk, put all the money in. Like,
0:19:05 I have no problem saying that some people can disagree with me. That’s fine. But do I think
0:19:11 that my employees should have made zero? No, which is why I put a long term incentive plan in place
0:19:17 for them. A profit sharing plan when I sold the business and everybody got paid. Every full time
0:19:23 employee who had been with solid core for a year, got paid on that last transaction. And they’re
0:19:30 going to get paid on the next transaction as well. And I feel really good about that. So I would say
0:19:36 honestly, like a similar fulfilling, but like back in my feet made my life make sense. So when I
0:19:42 started to feel like it was time for my next thing, yes, I fought it. And I thought it out of a few
0:19:49 things. One, who am I, like my life is extraordinary. I get to help people all the time. Oh my God,
0:19:53 fear. Like what if I fail at my next thing, whatever that is, is all this going to be for nothing.
0:19:58 And people will just think I’m a one hit wonder that definitely was something I had to work through.
0:20:03 And I didn’t really know kind of how to top that thing, you know, all the attention that
0:20:11 it was receiving. I was receiving all the accolades. My ego was involved for sure. But I couldn’t
0:20:16 sit there and tell back on my feet members in our mission to push and challenge themselves,
0:20:22 you know, move, moving things forward one step at a time growing. If I wasn’t willing to do the
0:20:30 same. So I was like, listen, I have an incredible board of like 1314 C level people. There is an
0:20:36 amazing budget, the program, the systems, the processes, the team, everything had been set up.
0:20:42 Like I really felt like I did my job as the founder and the first CEO of the of the organization.
0:20:49 So it, it helped me to be able to move on to the next thing. And then you, you go on and you do
0:20:54 solid core, which if you don’t know for the listener, it’s a Pilates studio. That’s just
0:21:00 fucking badass. You scale that out and you get to sell it eventually for like 300 million dollars.
0:21:05 But you had this story and you could dive deep on the numbers and we went through a lot of the
0:21:08 numbers on money wise, but you can go through some of the numbers. But if I remember correctly,
0:21:13 your idea was basically like you were in LA, you, you went to a Pilates studio, you do the math and
0:21:18 you’re like, well, they have like eight reformers here, a reformer costs this much money. I think
0:21:23 I could do like a hundred grand a month if I make this in DC or New York or wherever you made the
0:21:28 first one. Is that, is that story right? Pretty close. I discovered it in LA and then I was back
0:21:33 in New York and found another Pilates studio that had the same machines as them. And I was,
0:21:37 then I started to do the math after, after I went for like 30 days and I was like,
0:21:43 I have never seen my body look like this and it’s only been 30 days and I feel so good and
0:21:47 I’m addicted to it. I was just bringing everybody I knew and then I did the math and I was like,
0:21:55 this is an incredible business and no one’s really doing it on a big scale yet.
0:22:00 What was the math? Well, so there’s 10 machines in there in this particular studio
0:22:06 and the per class was like $30 a class and you couldn’t buy membership. You had to buy every
0:22:14 time you went. And how many, how many people per class? 10, 10. Oh, sorry. Duh. And it was a full?
0:22:18 Yeah, 10 times. Well, yes, it’s 10. It was full every time you couldn’t get into these classes. So
0:22:25 there was 10 classes a day, right? Okay. So that’s $300 a session. Yeah. Times 10. So that’s
0:22:33 $3,000 a day and they’re full all the time or they were all the time, like impossible to get
0:22:40 into class. And you’re like $3,000 a day times 30. That’s $90,000. That would be cool. Yeah,
0:22:46 totally. And I was, and I also felt, you know, one of the things that I tell people a lot when I,
0:22:54 when I speak is like, play a game. You know, you can win. And so I knew after back on my feet,
0:22:59 I had to find another game I can win. I was the perfect person to start back on my feet because
0:23:05 of my story, my experience in nonprofits, my true authenticity for wanting to help these guys.
0:23:12 And I just had a knack for understanding systems, scalability and process. And so with solid core,
0:23:18 I knew I needed something that was authentically, authentically representative of who I was.
0:23:22 And I am the workout queen. I mean, out of all my friends, I’ve done so many marathons,
0:23:29 like fitness and wellness has always been a key, if not the key priority. And so when I discover
0:23:35 this, I’m like, nobody knows you can work out like this. We’re all out there jumping, pounding,
0:23:40 you know, getting injured because it’s a rite of passage to be fit. Like, this is so different.
0:23:47 And nobody knows about it. And, and I know, I know how to build community. I know how to scale.
0:23:52 I understand branding. And I understand how to give a really good experience.
0:23:57 Therefore, this is a game I think I can win. This is what I’m going to do next.
0:23:59 And how old were you for this one? 31, 30?
0:24:02 31, 32, 31, 32. Yeah.
0:24:09 And you had saved like, I think you said like 150 grand from five years, 175 from like five years
0:24:17 of running the nonprofit. And you put, didn’t you tell me you put all of it into a location and
0:24:22 reformers, like you like transferred the money, you like transferred it from like ants checking
0:24:25 account to solid cores, checking account, like all of it.
0:24:30 Yeah. And then that didn’t feel so scary because I was 100% owner in the business. So it was like,
0:24:35 the scary part was that that it wasn’t moving the money. It was that the money is going to leave
0:24:42 that account. Yeah. Yeah. Did it all leave? Oh, I mean, a high majority. But the great news was as
0:24:50 soon as I opened, we started making money. So, you know, I had, I mean, Sam, like I was, I still
0:24:56 am, but especially back then, not a necessity. I was like a killer negotiator. I had to get
0:25:01 you to root for me. You know, so I’m talking to my general contractor, you know, and it’s like,
0:25:07 listen, can we do net 60 terms? Like if I can pay you sooner, I will. This is who I am. I started
0:25:12 this nonprofit. This is what I’m doing now. You know, I have this money, you know, I can pay you,
0:25:17 but I’m trying to make sure I don’t like get in front of my skis. And so like I would negotiate,
0:25:22 you know, that side of things. And the first landlord made me give four months of security
0:25:28 deposit, which killed me. I was like 30 grand that I have to give to you that like just gets to sit
0:25:33 there. And after that, I refused to do security deposits and was very successful in making that
0:25:39 happen. But yeah. And so as soon as like we opened and I started selling packages, I’ll never forget
0:25:44 my first my first sale. It was this woman named Amy, who I still know she was pregnant. And she
0:25:50 was like, I want to buy, you know, private sessions. And she went online and she bought
0:25:55 $2,500 worth of private sessions. And I was like, I can’t believe this woman just gave me all that
0:26:00 money. She’s never even done the work out. She doesn’t know anything. And so I trained her every
0:26:06 day at five a.m. Before the the studio, like we started class at six a.m. And then, you know,
0:26:12 once we opened, I got press. I leaned on my media contacts from back on my feet. I got an article
0:26:21 on the post. Yeah, it was DC. Yeah. And so how much was the start of costs? It was, oh gosh,
0:26:27 maybe a math, but I know the bill that was like 150 grand, right? I had to buy them. I had to pay
0:26:34 a licensing fee of $25,000 just to open the studio. That was just a licensing fee. That’s
0:26:38 insane, right? That’s an insane deal. Why can’t I just buy a machine? It’s my machine. Let me do
0:26:42 what I want. That’s why I ended that relationship in a couple of years and went through a lawsuit.
0:26:46 But then I had to buy the machines, which I financed because I couldn’t afford to buy them out,
0:26:52 right? And have all the cash. I had to finance them. And I was paying a monthly fee to do that.
0:26:59 And then, so those machines were $6,000 at that time, I don’t know, $7,000 a piece. So that was
0:27:06 70 grand, but I didn’t have to pay it all upfront. And then the rent was nine, no, sorry, seven grand,
0:27:13 seven grand a month. Damn. And what was your first month of sales? Oh, I like, we literally did over
0:27:20 a hundred grand in the first month. That’s insane. It was nuts. I mean, but I was betting big. And,
0:27:24 you know, I think I told this story a lot, but it’s still going to have to tell it. I was petrified,
0:27:27 you know, those moments where you have that you’re like, all in and you’re like, oh my god,
0:27:33 what am I doing? Larry, here comes Larry again, from back on my feet. And he’s like, and listen,
0:27:38 I’ll give you 75 grand for 30% of the business. If you don’t want to use all your capital, like,
0:27:42 listen, you grew this nonprofit, I know you’re going to be successful. You know,
0:27:47 if you want to keep a little cash, I’ll do this deal. And back then 75 grand, when all I had was
0:27:55 175 was a lot of money. And I, you know, I was beginning to think it was a responsible thing
0:28:00 to do to take this money. Maybe I should do this deal. And then I remember thinking I have the
0:28:06 money. And if I take his money, all I’m going to say is this is a massive doubt in myself. I’m
0:28:12 doubting myself. And when things really get hard, I am then going to lean into that 75k and convince
0:28:17 myself like, well, at least I have that, you know, like, you know, I don’t need to, this is too hard,
0:28:22 at least I have my 75k. And so I was like, I can’t, I can’t take that money. It’s just going to,
0:28:27 it’s going to take my drive away. It’s going to take the hunger. I need to feel like I’m being
0:28:32 chased by a bear. I need to figure this out. And that’s the way this is going to be successful.
0:28:38 So I just, I mean, every, every hour of, I was passing out solid core pamphlets, flyers, like
0:28:43 anything I could do to get you to come take a class. And then fortunately, what happened
0:28:47 was the same thing that happened to me when I took it. Everybody started telling their friends.
0:28:51 And Sam, after your first class, right, you said you were so sore.
0:28:56 Guess what? Everybody was not in a bad way, by the way, but, but everybody wants to tell everybody
0:29:00 how, oh my God, I’m so sore. I did this workout called solid core. You’ve got to go. They all
0:29:06 want to tell each other how much they’re working out. So, so it just snowballed. Did you create the
0:29:13 routine? That was part of the license. So I got trained on what was called this method called
0:29:19 degree. So we had someone come in and train me. And then I trained my trainers on how to do that.
0:29:26 I’m not a personal trainer. Like that’s not my background. And so we started again, using
0:29:32 their training program for us. And then soon realized that like we actually want to make this
0:29:38 more athletic. These names that they’re using were kind of silly. It was, it was like nothing
0:29:44 intuitive. And then the machine started breaking. And so I was like, this relationship is doing
0:29:50 nothing for me. I don’t know why I have to be associated with LaGrie. I want to like make my
0:29:56 own machines. I need to be in charge of manufacturing. Like the workouts don’t make sense. I had hired
0:30:01 somebody else to do the training who had a big background in MMA. And, and, and, you know, she
0:30:06 was certified and everything else. And we started playing around with the workout. She wrote a
0:30:14 massive training program. And then we separated from LaGrie. And he sued me like immediately.
0:30:19 Which you won, I think, right? Or sorry, you’re not a lot of say.
0:30:23 Well, I mean, it’s far enough down. But for all intents purposes, he had to buy back his
0:30:29 machines for me. And we agreed to never, to never talk again, which we haven’t. So, and, and frankly,
0:30:35 after we did that, all these other people who were part of LaGrie then also started to make
0:30:40 their own machines realizing like, why are we paying a massive premium on machines? This isn’t a
0:30:46 franchise. So we’re not getting the benefit of a national grant here. Like it just didn’t make
0:30:52 any business for any of the sense. So yeah, and then making my own machines, like, that was a huge
0:30:59 gamble. I didn’t know how to do that, obviously. And like tooling, engineering, manufacturing,
0:31:05 prototypes, I probably spent lost a couple hundred grand just because I didn’t know what I was doing.
0:31:10 Maybe probably even more than that. But like, we got a machine. It wasn’t right. I already,
0:31:14 like, it like, it didn’t work properly. Like we had to redo it. It was a mess.
0:31:20 What was your first year’s revenue? The first year revenue, I think you asked me this last time.
0:31:24 And then I had, I think you said a million dollars, right? Well, the first, it was more than
0:31:29 that because that was the first studio’s revenue. And then in the first year, you know, I had five
0:31:35 of these open. So you had, I didn’t know you had five at the end of the first year. Yeah. That’s
0:31:41 insane, right? Yeah, but same thing. I’m like, momentum, momentum, momentum. Have you ever
0:31:45 heard the funny story about subway? And I don’t know if it’s true or not, but like I just love it.
0:31:50 So I keep telling it, but subway had one location and they were like off the beaten path and they
0:31:54 weren’t doing that great. So they thought, you know, we need to open a second one because people
0:31:57 will think if we have two that we’re killing it. And I like remember hearing that story. I’m like,
0:32:03 that’s so brilliant. And even though we were killing it, I was like, I need to maximize on this
0:32:08 and get two and three and four open so that people start being like, I’m seeing this thing everywhere.
0:32:14 I must be missing out. They must be doing so well. This thing must work. And that really
0:32:19 like served us really well. So we just kept reinvesting the profits into the next studio.
0:32:25 I kept negotiating, you know, as long, like longer terms to pay back if I needed to.
0:32:29 And I just stopped doing security deposits with landlords.
0:32:33 How old was the business when you sold each different chunk? Because you sold it a couple
0:32:40 times, right? Yeah. So I did a minority deal in 2017. So the business was four years old at that
0:32:47 point. And we had 27 locations on an annualized basis. Each one of those studios was doing about
0:32:57 700 grand. Okay. So 27 times 700. That’s roughly $19 million in revenue. Yeah. You sold the business
0:33:02 for what valuation or you sold a chunk for what valuation? I did a pretty big valuation back then.
0:33:10 So the valuation was like close to 60 million. Wow. Yeah. And people, people, the firms definitely
0:33:14 balked at that. And I just said, listen, it’s not so much about the number. It’s about the terms.
0:33:20 And I know how much money I need to get to 100 studios. And that’s $12 million because I’m going
0:33:25 to continue to use the profits. And I also want to take secondary off of the table. And
0:33:29 obviously no one like that, especially that early. And I was like, listen, these are those are the
0:33:35 terms. Like, don’t don’t get so freaked out about the terms. Tell me what you need in order to do
0:33:43 this deal. And so there was a healthy preff on the minority deal that I agreed to. And I had no
0:33:47 problem doing that. And I remember two people were like, you know, and well, how do we know you’re
0:33:52 not going to walk away for six million? And I’m like, I was like, I would just sell the whole
0:33:56 business if that was the case. Like, you think I’m in this for $6 million? Like,
0:34:00 which is such a good way to like approach it. You are good. I’m really bad at negotiating.
0:34:06 Like all my staff knows that like, don’t come to Sam about salary discussions because my default
0:34:11 is like, I just say, I just say, you got to talk to this for other person about that because I
0:34:14 just say yes to, I just say yes to everything. So I’ve like removed myself from negotiation
0:34:19 because I’m too nice. And like, how do you think I did on this podcast? I know. Well,
0:34:25 I don’t know. That would sound like a back-handed couple, but it’s not. But I’m just, I’m soft as
0:34:30 fuck. Like I just, I just, I’m like, yeah, I’ll do whatever you want. I’ll do. But to approach
0:34:36 like a negotiation of like, well, don’t say no, just tell me what you need to win. And I’ll see
0:34:42 if I can actually make that happen for you. But then in order for you to win, it has to take
0:34:47 it to account. Here’s what I need. Exactly. And so I did that with landlords and, you know,
0:34:51 and private equity. It’s like, you know, landlord would always block that. We always
0:34:54 do security deposits. I’m like, that’s not really a response, right? Like, what are you
0:34:59 trying to protect against, right? You have a corporate guarantee, you have X, like help me
0:35:06 understand this and I can try to solve the problem a different way. So I, I solved the
0:35:09 private equity problem with the preferred return, you know, it’s like your downside is,
0:35:14 I’m not going to see another dime until you make, you know, the 2.5 X your money.
0:35:18 That’s just such a funny response. We always, well, why do I have to give a deposit? Because
0:35:25 we’ve always do deposit. That’s not a good reply. Give me a different reply. That’s the
0:35:30 best. That is the best. And it really, it really does work because you make them articulate what’s
0:35:34 important to them. And usually what’s important to landlords is, you know, the ledger, the balance
0:35:39 sheet of the total, you know, term of the deal. And I’m, you know, so that’s why we were able
0:35:44 to push rent a little bit further down the road and like increase the rent in year five or six.
0:35:49 And, you know, okay, you’re protected on the corporate guarantee, you know, front. So like,
0:35:53 you know, you have three years, I’m not going to do a security deposit. And let me tell you why
0:35:58 that’s important for me and why it benefits you because the more I get open, the bigger the brand
0:36:04 is, you know, it’s going to get more brand equity and, and, you know, this location will do better.
0:36:09 So yeah, I think people, all people can do a better job of, of negotiating. And it’s one of a
0:36:14 really amazing skill sets to, to learn. Chris Voss never split the difference. I love that book.
0:36:18 I read that book during COVID because I really had to get good at negotiation. And what’s the,
0:36:22 what’s like the, the, the summary of that? Well, he just goes through these different
0:36:28 strategies, right? About like mirroring. And he gives this, one of my favorite examples was he
0:36:34 gives this of a car, he goes in, he’s like, listen, I have, call it $10,300. You know, that’s the car
0:36:40 that I want. And just say it was like 15 grand or something. And then I comes back and like, okay,
0:36:44 great news. I add down to 14. He’s like, wow, thank you so much. I really appreciate you advocating
0:36:49 for me. But the number of the amount of money I have right now hasn’t, hasn’t changed. I still
0:36:56 have $10,300. If you can do the deal for that, you know, I’m here, goes back, comes down more,
0:37:02 gets to like, call it 11 three. And at that point, he knows, right? Cause he hasn’t moved.
0:37:07 He knows you’re not walking away. You are, you’re so close. The guy’s going to do the deal.
0:37:11 And I remember using that strategy a lot as well and negotiating. You get people to come,
0:37:15 come, come. And now they’re just too close that they’re not going to move away. So the whole
0:37:21 point is like not meeting in the middle. Wait. So as the point is, then do you go to 11,000 or do
0:37:26 you stick at 10, five? He stuck, he stuck because that guy is so close now. He’s not going to walk
0:37:30 away when it’s like, you know, used to be five grand away. Now you’re just 800 grand or sorry,
0:37:36 $800 away. So he like, ends up getting, you know, the deal done. And he just goes through
0:37:41 different strategies in there on how you can mirror, you know, this is what I hear you’re
0:37:44 saying. Yes. You know, and like, don’t walk away when you hear and know, like the note
0:37:50 doesn’t have to be a bad thing. So me and my lawyer, who I had on staff at that point,
0:37:55 who’s just a jack of all trades and unbelievable, you know, we read that book, Sam, because during
0:37:59 COVID we knew it’s like, what’s going to kill us? What’s going to kill this company is not that
0:38:05 we don’t have revenue coming in right now. It’s if these landlords sue us and make us pay rent.
0:38:09 And no one really understood who was right or wrong then, you know, it’s like, well, this is a
0:38:13 force was sure. It’s like, well, we don’t have any money coming in. How do you expect us to pay rent?
0:38:18 So we just said, we just have to get the landlords on our side. We have to figure out a way to
0:38:23 restructure the deal that doesn’t allow us to pay rent when we are closed. And we also can’t kick
0:38:28 the can down the road. You know, so we came up with strategies like, how about we lengthen the
0:38:34 term of the lease? We’ll add another year or two to the back end of the lease, you know, so that
0:38:39 you have a longer tenant. Like if you force us to pay rent, you’re not going to get another dime
0:38:44 from us, you know, because we’re going to go bankrupt. But if you work with us, or maybe we
0:38:49 increase the rent, you know, year eight, nine and 10 to make up some of the difference for this.
0:38:54 But we know that we couldn’t in a year from now have this like, okay, you owe rent for those three
0:38:58 months and give us a check for 90 K, but it’s 75 studios. Like there was just no way we were going
0:39:05 to recover from that. So anyway, those kinds of things, you know, people talk about how COVID
0:39:10 killed so many gyms. And a lot of that was not just because of COVID, it was because of these
0:39:17 operational and financial decisions that weren’t like made as smartly as maybe some other companies
0:39:20 could have made and not understanding what was going to be the demise of them.
0:39:25 When you when you completely got out was like, what, $300 million valuation?
0:39:30 Yeah, a little more than that. But yeah. And that was last April. I got I sold out my shares.
0:39:32 How old was the business then?
0:39:34 Nine and a half years.
0:39:39 That’s a great run. And when you look at like what made you guys great, was it operational
0:39:44 excellence? Was it because your brand was cool? Was it because the workout was better than anywhere
0:39:48 else? Like what’s like the honest assessment of like these were the one or two factors that set
0:39:54 us apart from berries boot camp or whoever else is you consider to be competition or all the
0:39:55 mom and pops out there?
0:40:00 Yeah, the workout is incredible. And I’m glad you’ve gone to it because you can understand
0:40:03 a little bit what I’m saying. It’s just like unlike anything that was ever out there. And now
0:40:08 there’s a lot more Pilates out there. But we had speed to market. We are the dominant player,
0:40:17 you know, in the space. And we have a pretty cool brand. So I think the aesthetics, we know what
0:40:22 our brand is, right? The whole tagline is create the strongest version of yourself. And I think
0:40:27 the company is still doing a really good job of leaning into that. One of my favorite campaigns
0:40:32 we did was it’s not for everyone. And we really went in and like this doesn’t this may not be
0:40:36 for you, but it’s for somebody, you know, it was almost like a Nike commercial. It’s like,
0:40:41 if you like to push yourself, those are great commercials. Yeah, yeah. And the night you’re
0:40:47 talking about the Nike Olympic ones. Yes, exactly. Yeah, those are great. Winning when I’m not for
0:40:52 everyone. So we did we did this campaign a few years ago. And it really like people people
0:40:56 watch that and it’s like, I want that to be for me. I’m tough. I’m strong. I like to push
0:41:02 myself. I want to grow. I can handle tough things. And so I think there is this aura of if you know
0:41:07 somebody who does solid core, you’re like, I know who you are. Like I know exactly the type of person
0:41:11 you are, you’re driven, you’re ambitious, you like to work hard, you’re not afraid of the work,
0:41:17 you’re not the work is actually the joy for you. You want to feel good at the end of the day knowing
0:41:22 you put your all and tried your best at like everything you did. So I think the brand ethos
0:41:28 is definitely a big part of our success. And don’t get me wrong. Again, operationally, I’m a
0:41:32 pretty good operator. Are you like pretty good where you’re like, you’re actually the best,
0:41:37 like your top or are you like, that’s like, I’m pretty good at it, but it’s maybe not the best
0:41:42 the thing that I’m best at. Yeah, I’m great at putting systems, processes in place. But like,
0:41:47 I’m not the right person to run solid core today. If that makes sense, like it’s too big, it’s too
0:41:53 monolithic. It’s like, I just I move quickly. And that’s not actually what you need. You need
0:42:00 somebody like Brian, who’s much more methodical, analytical, patient. I think that for most
0:42:05 entrepreneurs who are like new, I think that branding and some of these exercises aren’t
0:42:09 terribly important. But I think that if you have a proven track record, where you’re like,
0:42:16 this person executes well, and they execute when you have that tracker track record, which I think
0:42:22 I do. Like for all my businesses now, I spent a lot of time on branding, where I’m like, what is
0:42:28 this? How does this make someone feel like the colors, the name, things like that. And that,
0:42:31 like I said, that’s I don’t think that’s important for most people when they’re just starting out,
0:42:35 because it’s like, you just got to get started and get some traction with you guys. You
0:42:39 kind of it seems like you came out the gate with good branding. And you’re kind of in that
0:42:43 that boat, by the way, where like, this is your second company. And you like, it’s like, no,
0:42:47 you execute it. So it’s okay to like kind of sweat the stuff or think this stuff through.
0:42:51 Who inspired you for your branding? And where what was the exercise that you went through?
0:42:58 Yeah, we’re similar there. I love the branding and marketing as as well. So I I did that for
0:43:04 back of my feet and and and solid core in the beginning. You know, like, with back on my feet,
0:43:08 it just that the name itself, I remember someone telling me like, oh, we should call this thing
0:43:13 the homeless runners Association of America. And I was like, that alone will make the thing fail,
0:43:18 because it doesn’t sound cool. It doesn’t you know what I mean, it sounds like one of these every
0:43:24 other organization that just like, you know, and I wanted us to be cool. And coming up with the name
0:43:29 for solid core, it was just like reiterating a bunch of names. I’m like, Oh, that just has it,
0:43:34 that just makes you sound badass. Like, you know, people like, Oh, that’s solid. Like, obviously,
0:43:39 like the core piece has, you know, lots of double meanings and whatever. And then the brackets,
0:43:46 I thought could indicate like your obliques and the tightness and community and together. And so
0:43:50 I was like, this is it, it just, it just kind of looks cool. And they, you know, we haven’t done
0:43:56 a redo of the logo or anything, like it just kind of stuck around and the brackets. I mean,
0:43:59 I have, I don’t know if you can see, but I have like a bracket. Now I lifted up my shirt for you
0:44:07 too. I have a bracket tattoo. Again, I just, I just always feel like things need to be cool
0:44:14 for people to want to want to be a part of them. And so I didn’t want to spend a ton of like stupid
0:44:20 money on branding and marketing for another idea that probably would have worked also. But
0:44:24 one of my mantras is that there’s more than one right answer. And this was like a right enough
0:44:33 answer to move. So here’s the deal. I made most of my money from a newsletter business. It was
0:44:37 called the hustle. And it was a daily newsletter at scale to millions of subscribers. And it was
0:44:43 the greatest business on earth. The problem with it was that I had close to 40 employees and only
0:44:48 three of them were actually doing any writing. The other employees were growing the newsletter,
0:44:53 building out the tech for the platform and selling ads. And honestly, it was a huge pain in the butt.
0:44:59 Today’s episode is brought to you by Beehive. They are a platform that is built exactly for this.
0:45:03 If you want to grow your newsletter, if you want to monetize a newsletter, they do all of the stuff
0:45:11 that I had to hire dozens of employees to do. So check it out. Beehive.com. That’s B-E-E-H-I-I-V.com.
0:45:21 I want to ask you about some ideas, but you kind of caught the Pilates thing at the right.
0:45:27 You timed that one well. What fitness-related businesses excite you right now? When you were
0:45:34 talking about something, and I started thinking of Hydrax. It’s called Hydrax. Have you seen Hydrax?
0:45:40 H-Y-D-R-O-X. Hydrox, I think it’s called. Hydrox? Yeah. Is it Hydrox? Sorry, am I saying it wrong?
0:45:44 Like the competition? Yes, the competition in New York. I went and saw it.
0:45:49 It’s awesome. It is awesome. I saw that and I’m like, “Oh, this is going to be a thing.
0:45:54 Maybe it’s already a thing.” But this is really going to be a thing. Are there any things that you
0:46:00 see where you’re like, “This is going to pop?” Well, I will talk about what you finished in a
0:46:05 second, but one of the things that my husband and I went to Friends just did is 29029. Have you
0:46:10 heard of this event? Yes. The founder’s in Hampton. Did you talk to him, Mark? Yeah, I did talk to Mark.
0:46:15 Yes. They’re releasing the schedule soon. I’m going to one of them.
0:46:23 You got to go. We just did it. 29029 is the elevation of Everest. They created this event
0:46:29 where they partner with ski mountains for the most part around the country. You have to climb
0:46:33 whatever the number of times up that mountain, that’s the equivalent of Everest. We were in
0:46:41 Mount Tremblant, which is in Canada. Our mountain was about 2,200 elevation. We had to climb this
0:46:49 thing 15 times, 1.7 mile, and it was steep. I’m like a marathoner. I’ve done these things. I really
0:46:56 was like, “I’m just walking up a hill. I’ll be fine.” Completely different than anything I’ve
0:47:02 ever done before for the pure duration. If you think it takes you 60 to 90 minutes to get up
0:47:08 these things, you’re out there for 15 to 20 hours. Some people longer. Some people literally had to
0:47:14 be on their feet for 30 hours to get the 15 hikes in for the time that you’re allotted because you
0:47:20 have 36 hours. It is unbelievably inspiring the people that are there because most people are
0:47:25 there because they’re going through a divorce. They’re fighting some health battle. They’ve lost
0:47:30 100 pounds. They’ve got something bigger going on in their life and they need to show themselves
0:47:36 that they can climb the Effen Mountain physically so that they can go back and do it emotionally,
0:47:42 mentally, spiritually, whatever. It’s just awesome. It’s awesome.
0:47:48 Yeah. His business is wild. Basically, I think they sell out most of their events now. I think
0:47:54 it’s like $5,000 to go and they provide the accommodations. You’re not slumming it. It’s
0:47:59 like really nice stuff. You think that’s going to take off?
0:48:03 I think things like that. I think there’s going to be high rocks. I love it. Innovation.
0:48:08 There was a crop this across the games. I think you’re going to start to see more events. Remember
0:48:15 when Ragnar and some of the Ragnar relay? No. What’s that? Oh my gosh. Ragnar used to have
0:48:21 it. How do you spell it? R-A-G-N-A-R. It might still be going on. I just don’t know anybody who
0:48:27 does it anymore, but it was these relays where you had two vans and you had 24 hours to run
0:48:34 hundreds of miles. You’re literally driving through the night. Your vans are moving on.
0:48:38 There’s stations. It was just, again, so cool. I don’t really know if it’s still going on.
0:48:45 It is. It is. The company that owns it, I think they own a bunch of different events now.
0:48:53 Yeah. I really think that there’s this continued movement. I know you don’t drink. I really don’t
0:48:59 drink. A lot of my friends don’t want to be partying. Everybody is looking, at least in my group, for
0:49:08 physical fun activities to be doing with their time. I think these endurance challenge events
0:49:14 of all sorts are going to continue to grow and pop up all over the place because that’s how
0:49:17 I think a lot of people want to spend their times. I’ll tell you, I didn’t have my phone with me
0:49:25 for the entire time I hiked. I refuse to bring it with. I’m craving being out in nature,
0:49:28 challenging myself physically. I think a lot of other people are too. You’re going to see more
0:49:34 of that, I think a lot. Then from the critique- By the way, Mark told me, I was like, “What makes
0:49:39 you guys special?” He was like, “Well, you have a big breakdown,” but he was like, “One of the
0:49:44 things is that we make it so most of the people are going to fail. We want it to be hard enough
0:49:49 to where if you get done with it, it’s a big deal to you, and you’re going to want to talk about it.”
0:49:53 He’s like, “Most events, they actually make it where too many people succeed.”
0:49:57 And so he was talking about how the mindset behind making that event.
0:50:03 But you know what they do really well? They list different mountains, so you actually don’t feel
0:50:08 like you’re failing. So even though you may have not made it to Everest, if you climbed 10 of those,
0:50:13 you made it to Kilimanjaro. So they give you a medal, a Kilimanjaro medal, instead of-
0:50:18 Did you get all to all of it? Did you almost quit at all, or were you like, “No, I’m getting this
0:50:22 no matter what?” Well, Mark will tell you. So I didn’t get any sleep the night before, and I
0:50:27 actually had a mini meltdown. I’m like, “I don’t do well with sleep deprivation. I’m not going to be
0:50:33 able to do this.” And so I was on three hours of sleep, and my strategy was, I’m just going to do as
0:50:39 many as I can as fast as I can before I hit a wall. So I was on pace to probably finish
0:50:46 within the top five. And my 11th lap, it just, you know, like if you’ve ever done an endurance
0:50:53 event and like the wall, it just happens, and it happened. And I made it up the mountain halfway
0:50:57 in the time that it was taking me to reach the whole thing. I had to sit in the med tent for 45
0:51:03 minutes. I’m asking them, I’m like, “I can’t keep going. I need to go down to the mountain.
0:51:08 There’s my half of lap count so I can come back tomorrow.” And they’re like, “No.” And I was like,
0:51:14 I’m like, “What?” And now I really can’t go down. And I just couldn’t get myself together. And along
0:51:20 comes Mark, and he gives me Coke, not that kind of Coke. He gives me Coca-Cola. Coca-Cola, yeah.
0:51:24 And he was like, “Yeah, he’s like, “You’re going to do this. I’m going to walk up the second half
0:51:30 of the mountain with you. You’re not going to go back down. I can see it in your eyes. You’re not
0:51:35 somebody who needs to go back down.” So like, yeah, I took that shot of Coca-Cola and like
0:51:41 got up and we made it up the second half of the mountain. And then I went down and went to bed
0:51:45 and finished my next four in the morning. But yeah, Mark came along and saved me.
0:51:50 You put in the notes. You said, “The number one reason we had to let people go was because they
0:51:54 lacked proper judgment and critical thinking skills.” You said, “What I discovered was that the
0:51:59 best critical thinkers are great at taboo because you have to think on your feet and be strategic
0:52:03 when you describe the word you want to get people to say. What’s taboo? I don’t even know what that
0:52:08 is.” Yeah. So taboo is a game where you have teams and you get a card. And at the top of the
0:52:13 card says a word. Let’s say it says, “Book.” And you have to get your team to say that word. But
0:52:19 underneath that word book is five words that you can’t say to get them to say it. So I say like
0:52:25 “page” or “reading” or things like that. So you have to think creatively. And I have to know who’s
0:52:33 on my team. So how would I get Sam to say this word? And there are people who fresh that game.
0:52:39 And from my experience, whenever we’ve played on a retreat or something, the people who get stuck
0:52:44 or flustered or can’t think on their feet, whatever, usually don’t work there very much longer. And
0:52:52 I’m like, there has to be a correlation between this game, the ability to figure it out of like,
0:52:56 who’s on your team? How do you make this happen? Thinking on their feet. And some of the smartest
0:53:00 people that I think are my friend group are also excellent at that game. So there’s something there.
0:53:07 You also said something like, well, AI is taking over fitness. And you can personalize data,
0:53:13 supplements, exercise, food based on individuals. So for example, if you’re a 44-year-old woman who
0:53:16 wants to gain 10 pounds of muscle, we know your blood work. We know this about you. We know that
0:53:22 about you. Here’s the program that you’re going to be using or you should be using. Is there anyone
0:53:28 in the space who you like who’s taking advantage of that insight? Yeah. So I’m an advisor and an
0:53:33 investor. So I will disclose that to a company called Oxfit. And they are an ad home. It’s sort
0:53:38 of like tonal, but I think it’s much more comprehensive and better. And their AI game is
0:53:43 really progressing to do just that. It knows when you’re tired, it knows certain things,
0:53:47 how you’re lifting the weight, you’re in balance, whatever. And they are really investing in the
0:53:53 AI so that they can partner and you can add your blood work in and you can add every sort of data
0:53:59 point that you have about yourself and then what your goals are. And it will design, again, exactly
0:54:04 what you need to be doing. And I think that’s going to start to take off in a lot of different
0:54:09 areas. But listen, there’s a lot of people who are still just checking the box. And I think that’s
0:54:13 why they get frustrated because they’re not doing the right things for the results that they want.
0:54:19 And it’s a little bit of a guessing game, not knowing your metabolism, not knowing your deficiencies,
0:54:25 not knowing, again, your age or hormones and how all these things are affecting the workouts that
0:54:31 you do. So I think that’s just going to continue to, within five years, I think it’ll be kind of
0:54:38 foolish to just be like guessing on what you should be doing to work out. I’ve had a handful
0:54:44 of friends get diagnosed with cancer recently. And one of my friends detected it because he did
0:54:50 one of these pre-novo or something like that, one of those scans that you just pay money for.
0:54:56 And in 50 years or some amount of decades, we’re going to look back and we’re going to think,
0:55:01 it’s insane that you had cancer growing inside of your body and it could have been okay had you
0:55:09 just been told that it was there. And it’s like you’ve got this foreign thing in your body that
0:55:14 you don’t know about it. And we accept that that’s normal now, but I think that in some time in the
0:55:20 future, we’re not going to be unwilling to accept that. And so I’m personally really interested
0:55:26 in that. I am also personally quite interested in like figuring out exactly the fitness or diet
0:55:31 that works for me. I can’t, based off of blood work, I don’t think I’ve seen a product out there
0:55:37 that’s doing it that’s nailing that though yet. I think a lot of it’s like pseudoscience. I just,
0:55:42 I think it’s none of it’s like awesome at the moment. You know what I mean? Yeah, I agree. And
0:55:50 I think it will get there because if people can figure that out, and again, imagine if you’ve
0:55:55 been so frustrated your entire life to not see the results when you’re willing to do the work,
0:56:00 when you’re willing to put in the effort, and like it’s still not happening. I just think it’s
0:56:06 only a matter of time with where we are with the AI stuff and the demand for it, frankly.
0:56:08 Are you going to start another company?
0:56:14 No, sir. Not right now. Not right now. I know too much. I know too much. Like the beauty of
0:56:20 starting companies is I think a lot of times is naivety. And I’ll also be truly honest that like
0:56:27 some, the financial motivation is a little bit gone, of course. You know, I really felt with
0:56:32 back in my feet in solid core that I’m like doing a certain, one, I was very into them both, but two,
0:56:37 it was like, I’m going to make people’s lives better. I felt like I’m the perfect person to do
0:56:43 that. So I haven’t had, I’m also not looking for it right now. But if I have that experience again,
0:56:49 where I come across something or I moved or I’m like, I have to do this. Like that is when I will,
0:56:56 that is when I will do it. But for now, I just feel like I’m giving myself some freedom, some time
0:57:03 to feel this new chapter. Are you like seeking anything? Or you’re just like, like, because
0:57:09 that’s like an interesting mindset that I’ve been in before. And I don’t know if I approached it the
0:57:15 best way, but it’s like the mindset, I’m just going to go out and live and I’m going to be, my
0:57:24 ears are open if I get called. Yes, I’m just going to live right now. And yeah, I think even if I got
0:57:28 called right now, Sam, I wouldn’t, I don’t know if I could, if I could do it. Like because you’re
0:57:33 tired or you’re happy. Exactly. It’s not tired. I’m actually very energized. But you’ve read the
0:57:38 book die was zero. Yeah, I think we talked about that. Right. So I’m just, you know, I want to be
0:57:44 playing like I’m trying to stay in my feminine, because I’ve been in my masculine a lot in my life.
0:57:52 And like I want to have room and prioritizing playing. And for me, that is beach volleyball,
0:57:57 it’s any kind of sports, it’s connecting with friends and family, and being able to be a little
0:58:04 bit carefree. And I don’t want to put so much rigid structure back in my schedule. And I just
0:58:08 feel like I need a breather from that. And I, and I’m not willing, I’m not willing to do it.
0:58:13 All right. So we are about to wrap up. And Anne was like, you got to talk about this idea. All
0:58:16 right. What’s this idea? I read it, but I need you to explain it better. So you got this idea.
0:58:22 Tell me about jump seat. Yeah. So I, so you’ve all been at the airport, right? And like your flight
0:58:25 gets canceled or delayed and you’re desperate to get home. And you, of course, like you go up to
0:58:29 the airlines and they can’t do anything because they’re not going to kick anybody else off of
0:58:34 the flight. They don’t care about your status and whatever. And so the idea for jump seat is
0:58:38 very much like ticket master or something else where there’s a platform where let’s just say
0:58:43 Sam, again, if I got canceled and you’re like, dammit, I have to get home, you go on jump seat
0:58:50 and you offer a thousand dollars for any seat on any flight going back to where do you live?
0:58:56 Let’s say I’m going back to New York. Okay. So you’re going back to New York and like
0:59:01 you put the offer out there and all someone has to do is accept your offer. You trade seats,
0:59:05 they now are on your flight whenever that flight gets rescheduled, but they don’t have the same
0:59:10 timeline that you do to get home. So it’s like no problem. And it can work in reverse where if I’m
0:59:15 at the airport and I’m like, you know, I have a flight back to Miami, but like I’m in no rush,
0:59:20 I’m going to put my seat up for sale. And if someone else wants to get home sooner, they can buy my
0:59:26 seat. Well, it’s like seat geek for play tickets where it’s like, someone owns them. But if you
0:59:31 own it, you can auction off your auction off. But think about, think about how much happier
0:59:35 customers would be in the airlines where you could build in the airline to take a little bit of the
0:59:40 cut. So now I’m a happier Delta customer because I solved my own problem, even though Delta couldn’t
0:59:44 solve it, but they’re allowing this platform and you can even do it for seats. So let’s just say
0:59:49 I’m on a flight and I’m sitting in 32 a and I’m like, I really want to buy first class.
0:59:54 This person has first class. They don’t really care. They put up their seat for like 500 bucks and
0:59:58 they’ll come back and take my economy seat. And now I get to sit in first class. Would you ever pursue
1:00:04 this? No, because I don’t think this is a game I can win. I’m not like a tech person or something.
1:00:09 That’s why I want like, I want this product so I can use it. So that’s why I want somebody who’s
1:00:15 like, Oh my God, this makes so much sense. And you fell in love with the name jump seat. That’s a good
1:00:20 name. Yeah. It’s a great name. And I have a logo and everything like someone. Do you really?
1:00:25 It’s so good. I’ll send it to Ari. You can see it. How could someone, wait, would you actually
1:00:29 work with someone if they wanted to, if someone wanted to, how would you want to give away? How
1:00:35 could someone contact you? Like at least DM you on Instagram? Yeah. Yeah. If you can figure out
1:00:43 how to find me, you’re not the right person to totally. So yeah. How much do you think? Well,
1:00:48 whoever owns jump seat.com, they’re just sitting there. They’re not using it. You own jump seat.com?
1:00:53 Yeah. Of course they own it. How much did you pay for this? Like $5 or something? Not much.
1:01:00 Jump seat.com was $5. I bought it years ago. I’ve literally had, I’ve had this idea for such a
1:01:05 long time and I’m like, just make the logo. You know, like I had my friend make the logo and
1:01:10 it’s, it’s really good. It’s, it’s, the name is so perfect. It’s like what I can just trade seats
1:01:14 and people are like, Oh my God, airlines are never going to allow that. And like they already
1:01:19 allow aggregates like Expedia and, you know, they’re already in their back end system and this
1:01:25 solves a problem for them. And they can make more money by just taking $5 off of every time
1:01:30 someone switched sheets. Why would, you know, why would they care? This is so funny. I thought this
1:01:36 was a half big thing. So you’re, you’re in. I mean, I would love for someone to do it. I’ll give
1:01:40 you the, I won’t give it for you. You can, you can give me a little bit of equity in the company
1:01:43 and you can, you can run with it, but you’re going to have to convince me why you’re the right
1:01:48 person to do it. What would they have to say to convince you? Well, I’d have to know again,
1:01:52 why it’s a game they can win. What’s their background? Do they have the tech? Do they have
1:01:56 any, you know, connections in the airline industry? Have they ever built anything like this before?
1:02:01 You know, why would this be interesting to them? Do they know how to scale and, and build something?
1:02:06 Like, do they have the tech experience, which I don’t have at all. That’s so funny. I like went
1:02:11 to jumpseat.com and I’m like, Oh, hey, it’s registered, but no one’s using it. I did not
1:02:15 realize you’re this, you’re this far down. All right. So they’re going to, well, here’s what I
1:02:19 want to know. You’re going to have to message me and I’ll have to do a, I’ll do a shout out, like,
1:02:23 if there ever are any results, but you have to let me know how many people message you. And if
1:02:28 anyone’s actually promising. Okay, I will. I said it last time, it felt like I was like,
1:02:35 like being not genuine because I was so happy, but you’re, you inspire the sh*t out of me. And
1:02:40 you’re one of my favorite people on earth. I have found myself since we last talked, like,
1:02:44 approaching a situation. I mean, like, what would Anne think about this? And so I just want to thank
1:02:50 you for being part of my life and doing these podcasts. You’re the best. You mean a lot to me.
1:02:55 That’s really sweet. We’ll get you a t-shirt, Sam, that says what would you do? Just kidding.
1:03:00 That would be great. That would be great as long as it’s a crop top. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, as long
1:03:06 as it’s a crop top, then it’s good. And it must be at least two sizes too small. Yeah. I appreciate
1:03:19 you. Thank you very much. That’s the pod.
1:03:19 you
1:03:20 you
1:03:21 you
1:03:22 you
1:03:23 you
1:03:24 you
1:03:34 [BLANK_AUDIO]