How a $200 Doorbell Became a $4B Business

0:00:01 – Jamie created Ring Doorbell.
0:00:03 – You sold it for like a billion dollars, right?
0:00:04 – 1.15.
0:00:06 – The part after his decimal point
0:00:09 is worth more than our entire career so far.
0:00:11 I wanna brainstorm business ideas with you.
0:00:12 I wanna see how you think.
0:00:15 – Is there a five or $10 billion company
0:00:16 hiding in the bug space?
0:00:17 Probably they’re it.
0:00:19 – You said, “I just don’t know how to stop.”
0:00:21 And sometimes it’s not smart and it costs me.
0:00:22 – Yeah.
0:00:23 You’re gonna make me cry, Sam?
0:00:25 You gonna do this?
0:00:27 – I feel like I can rule the world.
0:00:30 I know I could be what I want to.
0:00:32 I put my all in it like my days off.
0:00:34 On the road, let’s travel.
0:00:35 – So Sean, listen, if you’re like me,
0:00:37 you woke up this morning, you rolled out of bed,
0:00:39 you checked businessinsider.com
0:00:42 and you read this amazing article about Jamie.
0:00:46 And it just says, “I’m Jamie and I’m the CEO of Ring
0:00:48 and I have the world’s worst morning routine.”
0:00:52 And it’s a whole article about how he rolls out of bed,
0:00:55 he scrolls his phone for about four hours.
0:00:56 – Everything he said he shouldn’t do.
0:01:00 – Immediately like all the wrong shit, like everything.
0:01:01 – That was the whole article
0:01:04 about how Jamie has the world’s worst routine.
0:01:06 – Good PR strategy, right?
0:01:07 Like they sit down with you and they’re like,
0:01:09 “Hey, we need to get some cool
0:01:11 like tech billionaire weirdo stuff.
0:01:12 What do you got?”
0:01:13 And you’re like, “Nope, don’t have anything.”
0:01:15 So they’re like, “Okay, we gotta use that.”
0:01:17 – Yeah, I’m like the average guy from Missouri.
0:01:19 – Are you from Missouri?
0:01:19 – I’m from New Jersey,
0:01:21 but I tell people I’m from Missouri now
0:01:23 because I have this farm in Missouri.
0:01:26 And I’ve decided that there’s no reason why
0:01:28 you can’t just be from Missouri.
0:01:30 – Guess where I’m from, Jamie.
0:01:31 Can you just look at me and guess?
0:01:32 – Missouri.
0:01:33 – I’m from Missouri, my friend.
0:01:34 – Where?
0:01:35 – St. Louis.
0:01:38 – So I, my farm is in LaBelle, Missouri.
0:01:40 So I’m in, I’m from Missouri.
0:01:42 You’re from Missouri, you’re more like a city folk,
0:01:46 but we are two and a half hours north of St. Louis.
0:01:48 – Dude, I love how he just out-Missouried you,
0:01:50 even though you were actually born and raised there.
0:01:52 And he just actually was like, “You’re a city slicker,
0:01:55 not a real true Missourian.”
0:01:56 – We don’t like you folks.
0:01:57 – This is like, did you like that?
0:01:58 – Going to like Tony Soprano and being like,
0:02:00 “Actually, Tony, it’s brisketta.”
0:02:05 – So let me tee this up.
0:02:09 All right, so I did a call with Jamie and it was super fun.
0:02:12 Jamie created, if you’ve ever seen a doorbell
0:02:14 that has a camera on it, this is the inventor.
0:02:15 This is the man who did it.
0:02:18 He created Ring Doorbell, grew it,
0:02:20 sold it to Amazon for tons of money.
0:02:22 And I was like, “Hey, I wanna kinda have you on the podcast
0:02:24 and brainstorm business ideas with you.
0:02:27 I wanna see how you think, how do you approach businesses.”
0:02:30 And he’s like, I believe, I don’t know the exact quote,
0:02:32 but it was something like, you know,
0:02:34 “Ideas are like my drug of choice.”
0:02:36 And he’s like, “I have this list on my phone
0:02:39 of like thousands of ideas, which one do you want?”
0:02:41 – Exactly.
0:02:43 And so, I wanna do that.
0:02:45 Sam, you saw the doc that he sent over,
0:02:47 which gives us kinda bullet point ideas.
0:02:48 We don’t know what he’s gonna say, but bullet point ideas.
0:02:49 Where do you wanna start?
0:02:51 – Wait, wait, can I ask a question before we get in?
0:02:53 How much, you sold it for like a billion dollars, right?
0:02:56 – 1.15, but I mean, if you wanna,
0:02:58 you can round down if you want to, I mean.
0:02:59 – Okay, okay.
0:03:00 So we’re talking to a guy who,
0:03:02 you know, you have a billion dollar company.
0:03:03 – The part after his decimal point
0:03:06 is worth more than our entire career so far.
0:03:07 – I think you do have to point out,
0:03:10 I did sell it for a billion when a billion was a lot of money.
0:03:11 – Just back when a billion was cool?
0:03:13 – Back when a billion was actually like,
0:03:14 you could buy more than a cup of coffee with it.
0:03:16 – Well, can we actually go to that story?
0:03:18 Do you remember kind of where you,
0:03:20 I guess I’m always curious about two things.
0:03:22 One, was there a good negotiation story
0:03:24 or like a throw out a number story of like,
0:03:26 how do you arrive at that 1.15 billion?
0:03:28 And then like, how did that come about?
0:03:31 – I mean, what was cool with Amazon is,
0:03:34 you know, from the, we had been working with them
0:03:35 on stuff for years.
0:03:38 So I actually went to Amazon and showed this guy,
0:03:42 Nick Comoros, the ring before we launched ring,
0:03:43 because we had been talking to him.
0:03:44 They were with Alexa and stuff,
0:03:45 they were looking at sort of,
0:03:46 they were trying to reach out to all the small
0:03:48 IOT people at the time.
0:03:51 There was a lot of little hardware things bubbling up.
0:03:54 So I even like literally like brought them the first one
0:03:54 and showed it to him.
0:03:56 So we had been working together for a long time.
0:04:00 We were very like aligned on like mission,
0:04:01 what we’re trying to do.
0:04:04 They started to look at video realizing like with Alexa,
0:04:05 they had, you know, the kind of the,
0:04:07 call it the ears in the home.
0:04:08 And they started to see the eyes
0:04:10 and saw what we were doing.
0:04:13 We had this, you know, kind of like dating awkward,
0:04:15 because we would talk all the time.
0:04:16 We’d meet and, you know, Nick said,
0:04:18 let me come down and let’s have lunch,
0:04:21 which was kind of not that abnormal.
0:04:22 And we’re sitting there and Nick’s like,
0:04:24 you know, we should kind of go to the next level here.
0:04:26 And it was this like very funny,
0:04:28 like dating conversation of like,
0:04:30 you know, it’s like where you don’t want to just like jump out
0:04:31 and be like, okay, let’s do it.
0:04:32 You know, it’s like,
0:04:33 and it’s like, do what, you know?
0:04:35 So, so it’s like, we keep going back and forth.
0:04:38 We’re like, so you mean, and he’s like, yeah.
0:04:40 And I’m like, to, and like, we kept going back.
0:04:43 And then he finally said, yeah, like we, it’s time we should combine.
0:04:46 And, you know, not, not a merger of equals, by the way,
0:04:48 but that Amazon should buy you.
0:04:50 What was your revenue then?
0:04:50 Do you know?
0:04:53 Uh, we were, we, so that was 2017.
0:04:55 So we, we, that year we did 4, 480 million.
0:04:56 Okay.
0:04:58 So you guys were just huge.
0:05:00 Was it a profitable business or were you burning money
0:05:01 and you had to figure out?
0:05:07 Here’s what’s so interesting is like, it was the, like the, the, of each,
0:05:11 like the individual customer economics were insanely good.
0:05:14 So the, the, the fund, like the, the fundamentals of the business,
0:05:16 like the actual, like business was good.
0:05:20 It was growing so fast that like money was just being lit on fire everywhere.
0:05:24 And it’s not that we were like, we, we had crappy offices.
0:05:28 Like, it’s just, you have to hire so fast to get ahead.
0:05:29 It’s just about like customer service.
0:05:35 When you’re growing at like 500% a year, and if customer service takes three to six months,
0:05:41 like a person you hire to get up to speed, that means you’re hiring like two to three X,
0:05:42 what you need at that exact time.
0:05:43 Yeah.
0:05:47 Just so that you can like not blow up as people are buying and the growth.
0:05:51 So you’re just, you’re just like putting out all this cash to do this stuff.
0:05:54 So, I mean, you start to think about, it’s like, it sounds cool.
0:06:00 Like when you’re doing 170 million and you’re ordering for 480 million, it means like if
0:06:02 anything slows down, I mean, you are just like, you’re dead.
0:06:03 Right.
0:06:07 It’s like on one side, yeah, I’m sitting there with Nick and I have this, I have a 480 million
0:06:12 dollar a year business that’s growing, you know, triple digits still, like literally triple digits
0:06:14 at that, at that scale, which is insane.
0:06:20 And the other side is like, and I’m going out of business every day, like every day I’m facing
0:06:23 basically like the wall, like we’re going to hit the wall.
0:06:27 And the only way to stop that is you raise a little money, you get a little financing,
0:06:28 something else comes in.
0:06:32 Like, so it was getting to a point where I just couldn’t handle it.
0:06:35 Like I, I was, you know, I was sort of, the stress was getting to me.
0:06:38 I mean, it was, you know, it was years of just like that.
0:06:42 And then we, we kind of got into, you know, started to get in the negotiation during the
0:06:42 negotiation.
0:06:47 And so I wrote this book and part of why I wrote the book is like the story.
0:06:50 I mean, it’s a, it’s like a bit of a longer story, which is why a book is good.
0:06:57 But during the negotiation, I get sued by ADT, uh, probably for something that was a little
0:06:59 bit self-induced to be fair.
0:07:07 They win an injunction and literally, I mean, and this is like, you can’t make this up.
0:07:11 Nick calls me and he’s, you know, I’m going to send you a term sheet over, you know, tomorrow
0:07:12 morning, just FYI.
0:07:13 Great.
0:07:16 An hour later, the injunction hits us.
0:07:20 I have to call Nick back and be like, hey, just FYI, like not a big deal at all.
0:07:24 Doesn’t, you know, shouldn’t matter, like shouldn’t matter at all.
0:07:28 But like, just like as a FYI, we did get an injunction from ADT on this lawsuit.
0:07:30 And he’s like, dude, we’re out.
0:07:32 Wow.
0:07:33 And what does that mean?
0:07:35 So ADT was suing you for, for what?
0:07:37 So we had been building an alarm.
0:07:43 They had a, like a company that they had some part of that they were sort of invested in that
0:07:44 was building it.
0:07:45 They stopped funding it.
0:07:48 The company went out of, basically shut down.
0:07:50 I hired all the people from there.
0:07:54 They told me I couldn’t hire all the people from there.
0:07:56 I told them in a very respectful way.
0:07:59 You know, I said like, you know, please and thank yous.
0:08:01 No, I was like a total asshole.
0:08:02 And I was like, so dumb.
0:08:05 And I just like, I, again, I, I, you poked the bear.
0:08:11 I poked the bear and it’s like looking back, it’s funny because it’s the same like insanity
0:08:17 and passion that like gets a company to go from 170 to 480 is also the person that blows it up.
0:08:22 It’s like, you know, it is like the demolition man of like, you know, it’s the, the, the same
0:08:26 person that can use the demolition to like clear the way for the road is also who can like blow
0:08:27 everything up for everyone.
0:08:29 It’s my favorite Elon thing of all time.
0:08:35 When he goes on Saturday Night Live and he goes, you know, I took all my money and I spent
0:08:39 it on trying to get rockets that will take us to Mars and electric cars.
0:08:41 And he’s like, what did you think?
0:08:42 I would just be a normal chill dude.
0:08:45 And it’s like, oh, actually that explains so much.
0:08:46 Of course we can’t have one.
0:08:48 We can’t have mad genius.
0:08:52 And then also, you know, stable, respectful, peaceful, reasonable man over here.
0:08:54 It can’t be unreasonable in one area and totally reasonable in the other.
0:08:58 And I think that’s the problem is like, it’s just true.
0:09:03 Like if you want to do something, I mean, ring is a one in a whatever generation company.
0:09:07 And like, I say that as someone who like looks at it and I can’t believe I’m even part of
0:09:07 it.
0:09:08 Like it’s incredible.
0:09:11 I mean, it’s, it’s avert, like people just call it a ring.
0:09:13 Like it’s, it’s, I mean, to build something like that is incredible.
0:09:19 And so, yes, like you, you probably have some traits that are very strong, but those can
0:09:20 cut both ways.
0:09:25 And so, you know, when the person from ADT calls you and you’re like, you know, like you’re
0:09:30 like in this sort of vortex of doing stuff, you know, maybe you don’t sort of take the
0:09:32 time to say like, why don’t I just come to you?
0:09:33 Why don’t we sit down?
0:09:36 Like we’re two humans and work this out.
0:09:39 And by the way, I am, it’d be funny to like now go back.
0:09:44 Like, I’m sure if I had just flown there, sat down for dinner with them, I really actually
0:09:46 feel like they probably just be like, like, fine, whatever.
0:09:47 We’re good.
0:09:50 Like we just wanted to like talk, you know, we just want to talk to you.
0:09:55 And instead I was like, you know, like lunatic, you know, doing stuff.
0:09:58 And they sort of said, well, why don’t we teach you some business?
0:10:00 And so they, they did.
0:10:01 And to be fair, like whatever.
0:10:04 And so that, that was very, you know, turned out to be fairly painful.
0:10:06 All right.
0:10:08 So you guys are about to get to the best part of the podcast.
0:10:12 This is the part where we asked Jamie how he comes up with new ideas for businesses, how
0:10:15 he came up with the idea of ring, but also a lot of the other projects that he’s looking
0:10:16 into starting.
0:10:18 And he’s got this amazing name.
0:10:22 It’s called the snowball method, meaning he likes to find very small ideas that can eventually
0:10:22 become big.
0:10:27 But the problem is that these ideas are so small that people don’t notice them or they forget
0:10:27 about them.
0:10:28 And so here’s what we did.
0:10:32 We went and looked at what he’s going to talk about on this podcast, which you’re going to hear
0:10:32 because you’re going to get to it.
0:10:35 But then he’s talking about the snowball method on a bunch of other podcasts.
0:10:37 And we went and broke it down into a really easy to understand methodology.
0:10:41 And so if you’re interested in solving these four questions, this guide, it’s for you.
0:10:43 So it’s how do you spot billion dollar ideas?
0:10:44 How do you get inside boring problems?
0:10:48 Number two, what early stage moves actually validated ring before it took off?
0:10:52 Number three, how do you keep momentum when your business feels stuck or you’re on the brink?
0:10:57 And number four, what critical decisions make or break a founder’s path from $200 to a billion
0:10:58 dollars?
0:11:01 And so if this type of thing interests you, which I think it does, because you’re listening
0:11:04 to My First Million, you can get the link in the description below.
0:11:11 So you call the guy, you’re like, hey, feel silly even bringing this up, but there’s a
0:11:12 little lawsuit you should probably know about.
0:11:15 And then they, he’s like, we’re out.
0:11:16 Out.
0:11:20 And you’re thinking, well, look, you drafted the term sheet.
0:11:21 Anyways, just go ahead and send it over.
0:11:22 And he’s like, no, no, no, we’re out.
0:11:23 How did it go back on?
0:11:25 I said, why don’t we just keep the negotiation going?
0:11:28 And like, you know, if I settle this thing out, then like, we’re good.
0:11:30 He’s like, dude, we’re not like, Amazon’s like, not done.
0:11:33 Like it’s like basically like pencils down until whatever.
0:11:36 On the flip side, which was great is I had a safety net.
0:11:37 So like, don’t worry.
0:11:39 I’m totally fine.
0:11:43 Like I’m going into this Amazon deal with a safety net, which is if we don’t do the Amazon
0:11:45 deal, I’m going to raise $200 million.
0:11:52 So I also had to call them and say, just FYI, like I know this deal, like we’re about to
0:11:53 close it for this money.
0:11:59 And just FYI, like we had this little injunction on that little thing that I kind of said that
0:12:01 was not going to be a big deal.
0:12:03 And they’re like, yeah, we’re out too.
0:12:08 It’s like the two doors I was looking at is like selling to Amazon or raising $200 million.
0:12:11 It was the first time I was going to take secondary money off.
0:12:15 So I was going to actually take some money off the table and meaningful money.
0:12:17 Like it would have been like real for me.
0:12:22 And so those are like the two things I was like sort of looking at going into the holidays,
0:12:26 basically, and all of a sudden both those doors evaporated.
0:12:32 And now we’re negative like $70 million in the bank because we didn’t plan the cash flow
0:12:34 because it was like one of these doors is going to happen.
0:12:36 You’re not going to raise more money.
0:12:39 Like, I mean, you’re not going to raise like a third set of money.
0:12:43 Like, you know, so all of a sudden we like go to like, basically we are like technically
0:12:47 like a bankrupt company almost immediately.
0:12:49 Okay, go on.
0:12:50 I’m hooked.
0:12:50 So what happens?
0:12:54 And more importantly, what’s the conversation you have with yourself in that moment?
0:12:58 Because I think, you know, there’s what you did, but there’s also what you said to yourself
0:13:00 before you figured out what to do.
0:13:00 Yeah.
0:13:05 So what’s like, so again, to traits that are good, like the one thing I do have, which is
0:13:09 probably, you know, has kept us from completely blowing the place up.
0:13:14 When things really happen, like when things are really, really bad, I go into like a pilot
0:13:15 checklist.
0:13:17 Like I am just like deadpan calm.
0:13:18 We got to do this.
0:13:19 We got to do this.
0:13:20 So I’m like, we have to, we’re going in the holidays.
0:13:21 We have to sell everything.
0:13:23 We have to like break every record.
0:13:27 We have to like, it’s like the only way to survive is just like, we got to like do this.
0:13:33 And we also have to stop paying our bills to anyone that can’t like, you know, actually
0:13:34 like tow us away.
0:13:35 Right.
0:13:40 And so we did that too, which was pretty, that was, and that’s, that’s not fun because
0:13:44 like you’re calling people that have worked, you know, vendors and you’re like, Hey, listen,
0:13:49 like I, I know, but if you, if you like stop shipping this, we’re dead.
0:13:51 If we’re dead, everything you’ve already sent is dead.
0:13:55 Like, you know, it’s just, it’s a bit of like, it’s, it’s, it’s not a conversation you want
0:13:55 to have.
0:13:57 It’s everyone’s problem at that point.
0:13:57 Yeah.
0:13:58 It’s horrible.
0:14:01 Like, it’s just, it’s just like a bad, it’s a bad situation.
0:14:03 And then did the lawsuit go away?
0:14:09 So we, like, we’re going through whatever we go, it’s crazy as we go through, um, you
0:14:13 know, black, black, black Friday, cyber Monday, like that whole sort of week, we literally blow
0:14:18 out like every, like everything’s like ring is just the, it’s the product of the holidays.
0:14:19 Like it’s the number one seller at Best Buy.
0:14:22 Like, it’s just literally like on fire.
0:14:27 So by the way, on that, if this wasn’t happening, how much less do you think in sales you would
0:14:30 have had, you know, like percent wise, how much do you think you’ve got extra just with
0:14:32 the forcing function of necessity?
0:14:39 At least there’s definitely like probably like low double, like 10%, 15% at least, at
0:14:39 least.
0:14:41 And was it just your intensity?
0:14:43 Cause it’s like, we have to, or did you come up with a new idea?
0:14:44 What’d you do?
0:14:45 We did everything.
0:14:49 Like every social post, every this, like, I mean, we just had people, like we did like,
0:14:51 yeah, you just like, you put it all in the field.
0:14:54 Like you just like send in your best to everybody.
0:14:55 And so we just went crazy.
0:14:59 Um, but it for sure, I think for sure that was a part of it.
0:15:03 Um, but we need, like, we needed to, like, we needed to like literally break every number,
0:15:04 blow everything out.
0:15:08 Um, and still with that, like, it wasn’t clear that we would live.
0:15:14 It just felt like it was going to be more likely you’d live if you were blowing it out
0:15:14 than not.
0:15:18 Um, and so we doing that.
0:15:23 And then all of a sudden ADT calls and says, Hey, would you like to talk, you know, settlement?
0:15:27 It’s like, it’s like, imagine, like, imagine if you had like, you know, someone’s like literally
0:15:29 like you have no oxygen, you know?
0:15:30 And they’re like, Hey, would you like a little oxygen?
0:15:31 You’re like, I’d love some oxygen.
0:15:37 And so we went and they were actually like pretty like fair.
0:15:42 And once we settled like that, like everything else was amazing.
0:15:46 It was this weird thing where like everything underneath was like the best ever.
0:15:50 And we had this just one cloud that, that, that moved everyone away.
0:15:55 And as soon as that dissipated and went away, like it was, you know, I mean, so we basically
0:16:02 it was like December 9th or something, you know, that we settle, um, which on that.
0:16:02 That’s pretty fast.
0:16:04 That’s, that’s really fast, right?
0:16:10 It was, you go to this, like, it’s this thing, you go to like this, um, um, this office where
0:16:14 there’s like two conference rooms in this, this judge, like a, uh, a retired judge who
0:16:17 walks back and forth between these like two conference rooms, like you’re in one there
0:16:17 and the other.
0:16:20 And just, they just keep going back and forth all day.
0:16:21 And then it’s the craziest thing.
0:16:22 Like finally they’re like, okay.
0:16:23 And you’re like, okay.
0:16:26 And then you sign it and you’re like, are you, this is done.
0:16:27 And they’re like, it’s done.
0:16:29 I’m like, done, done.
0:16:32 Like I kept like, it was like, like a, like, you know, like a Laurel and Hardy, like done,
0:16:33 done, done, done.
0:16:38 And then, you know, I called, I literally, I called Amazon and just said, just FYI, it
0:16:38 settled.
0:16:40 And they said, okay.
0:16:44 Like, it was like, you know, like that’s all, like, we love the business.
0:16:46 We just didn’t, you know, we didn’t want to get involved in that.
0:16:51 And so once it was settled, you know, that was like December 9th or whatever, December 31st,
0:16:54 we signed for 1.15 billion to sell it.
0:16:57 Wait, so the deal closed 30 days later?
0:17:02 Uh, so we signed the LOI, like the binding LOI, like literally like less than 30 days.
0:17:04 So did you, did you shop it around as well?
0:17:12 I, I, I didn’t, um, for a number of reasons that the biggest one was, I did not know of
0:17:15 another buyer that would back our mission.
0:17:18 So we were very missionary around making neighborhoods safer.
0:17:22 What were your interactions like with, uh, with Jeff Bezos?
0:17:29 Um, so Jeff loves entrepreneurs so much that they’ve learned not to have him, um, you know,
0:17:31 involved in the, in the purchasing.
0:17:33 Cause I think Jeff would just be like, I love you, man.
0:17:34 Like he’s like, Jeff’s so great.
0:17:40 And so, so I didn’t actually, I mean, I had met him like once before, but I didn’t really
0:17:41 kind of know him.
0:17:45 And so really it was post deal that I got to, you know, really start to spend some time with
0:17:46 him.
0:17:50 And he is just one of the greatest people ever, uh, for lots of reasons.
0:17:52 I’d say the number one is he’s just like a good human.
0:17:57 Do you have any good, um, Bezos stories of like, you know, it’s cause rare that you,
0:18:00 you know, get to actually interact with, or in your case work with, because there’s always
0:18:01 levels to the game, right?
0:18:04 I meet people who I think I’m doing great that I meet somebody.
0:18:08 I’m like, wow, that person’s got a different level of intensity or they’re a different level
0:18:10 of sharpness or they ask a different style of question.
0:18:13 And so you, but you don’t know until you meet them, right?
0:18:15 You don’t even know what level 12 looks like until you see level 12.
0:18:16 Yeah.
0:18:20 And so I’m just curious, like, do you have any moments like that with, uh, with, with Bezos?
0:18:21 Definitely many, many moments.
0:18:27 I’d say the biggest thing I took away from Jeff is he’s the most positive person I’ve
0:18:29 ever met in like the weirdest way.
0:18:30 Cause he gets shit done.
0:18:32 So it’s not like he’s like, just like, Hey, good job guys.
0:18:38 You know, it’s like, but he’s able to just like be so patient on things.
0:18:43 And I, and just like, he, he like sees the future and he’s just very patient and, and, and
0:18:44 very positive.
0:18:48 And so I’ve, I’ve tried to, it’s, it’s definitely different than my personality.
0:18:53 You know, I’m, I’m sort of more like, you know, punch a wall, kind of like run around and yell
0:18:53 a little bit more.
0:18:58 Like it’s just like, kind of like more like that, like maybe like inventor passion, but
0:19:04 he has taught me to sort of try to like, just be a little bit calmer and let things sort of
0:19:06 work themselves out versus like forcing everything.
0:19:09 I think maybe that’s the, the, the biggest learning.
0:19:10 And why have you stayed this?
0:19:12 I mean, how the deal was what?
0:19:12 10 years ago?
0:19:13 Five years ago?
0:19:14 It was 2018.
0:19:15 So seven, seven years ago.
0:19:16 Why are you still there?
0:19:21 I mean, obviously, I mean, money is probably a big part of it, but is there?
0:19:22 Oh dude, mission.
0:19:23 He’s going to say mission.
0:19:23 I can bet anything.
0:19:24 He’s going to say the mission.
0:19:27 Money.
0:19:35 No, you know, I actually, so in 2023, I ended up stepping down.
0:19:40 I was just, you know, I, I’d taken the company almost 10 X it from when we got to, uh, Amazon
0:19:41 brought a profitable.
0:19:43 Like, I felt like I had delivered like the package.
0:19:44 I’m like, here it is.
0:19:45 It’s pretty amazing.
0:19:47 So you grew it to 4 billion in revenue.
0:19:49 It’s that around there.
0:19:50 Yeah.
0:19:51 Oh my gosh.
0:19:51 Yeah.
0:19:52 That’s wild.
0:19:54 So it, it, you know, the thing just kept growing.
0:19:56 It just kept like, it’s just insane.
0:20:02 And so I, I finally was just like, I am, I’m feeling like super burnt out on just the,
0:20:03 like a whole thing.
0:20:04 I stepped back and I, and I did realize.
0:20:08 I missed just, I just missed like rank.
0:20:09 Like I missed the mission.
0:20:11 I missed what we’re building.
0:20:16 I love like, yeah, I’m an inventor at heart and being able to be at Amazon, you can invent
0:20:17 at scale.
0:20:22 So, you know, an inventor, the best thing for an inventor is like see your invention out
0:20:22 there.
0:20:23 Yeah.
0:20:26 But it’s pretty amazing that like most inventors, I mean, I mean, there’s many inventors that
0:20:27 are successful.
0:20:31 Dyson, there’s, you know, Edison was a good businessman, but, uh, you know, uh, maybe, maybe
0:20:32 must would be an inventor.
0:20:37 I’m not sure who else, but, but typically the stereotype of an, of an inventor is someone
0:20:41 who’s got like two different matching socks and like, they don’t like know how to do anything,
0:20:45 um, other than like invent and they’re a little bit messy and whatever, but it sounds like you
0:20:46 actually knew how to operate.
0:20:51 I would say I’ve used invention around operation, but I don’t operate.
0:20:53 I certainly don’t operate in a normal way.
0:20:56 So, um, like I’ve never had a staff meeting.
0:20:59 Like everyone’s always like, you know, what day do you do your, your staff meeting on?
0:21:00 I’m like, I’ve none.
0:21:02 Um, cause I’ve never had one.
0:21:05 We never had an all hands meeting at the company.
0:21:07 And like, so we, you do things when you need to.
0:21:11 So there’s a lot of things like, I don’t have those like processes of how to like run a business.
0:21:14 Dude, you are exactly like, you know who he’s like, Sean, 100%.
0:21:15 Who?
0:21:17 Alon, um, the card game.
0:21:18 Yeah.
0:21:19 Elon Lee.
0:21:19 Yeah.
0:21:19 Elon Lee.
0:21:20 Elon Lee.
0:21:20 Oh man.
0:21:25 He had the exact same mentality where he was like, yeah, we don’t do this at the company.
0:21:28 We’re, whereas Sean and I were like, wait, but I thought everyone had to do all hands.
0:21:30 He’s like, well, I thought about the reason why.
0:21:32 And we just invented a different way to do it.
0:21:33 Yeah.
0:21:33 Yeah.
0:21:36 And I think if you can turn like, again, like it’s still inventing, like it’s like, just
0:21:39 like, just cause it’s not a, like a physical product or just cause it’s internal doesn’t
0:21:40 mean it’s not an invention.
0:21:44 So I do love that, like you can use invention across the board.
0:21:47 Um, and especially like how you build the business.
0:21:51 I would say like, I mean, this is where Dyson, I think, and I don’t, I don’t know him, but
0:21:52 he’s like, he’s like my mentor.
0:21:54 I just, this is like the mentor I don’t know.
0:21:59 Um, but like, look at what Dyson has been able to do by having built a great business.
0:22:04 Like if he hadn’t built a great business, he’d just be a guy in a, a barn somewhere in like
0:22:05 Oxfordshire or some shit.
0:22:11 Um, and instead, you know, he’s like able to like build all this crazy good stuff and have
0:22:11 this company.
0:22:16 So I think I did feel like the business was something you needed in order to be able
0:22:19 to like get your inventions out there bigger.
0:22:21 And that’s, that’s kind of what ring has been.
0:22:25 And then being at Amazon, it’s like, that’s just like, you know, a thousand X that.
0:22:30 Was there a moment in those early days for ring where it went from not working, like it’s
0:22:35 not a thing to it’s a thing, like an inflection point where, you know, or did it take off right
0:22:36 away?
0:22:37 As soon as you had the product, people started buying it.
0:22:42 It’s certainly, you know, looking back, it probably took off more than I thought.
0:22:45 Cause like being inside of it, you’re sort of dealing with the problem.
0:22:47 So you don’t really see it as easily.
0:22:52 Um, like, again, when I wrote the book, I kind of like was able to like go back and like
0:22:55 think about all of what was happening and look at it in a different light.
0:22:59 And so, um, it was 2016.
0:23:01 My wife was out trick or treating.
0:23:07 Um, I was away on something and that was like the year she called and she’s like, this is your,
0:23:09 it’s like every house has a ring.
0:23:10 She’s like, this is insane.
0:23:13 Um, and I think you really felt it cause like they’re literally trick or treating and like,
0:23:15 they’re like hitting like the ring, like every house.
0:23:19 Um, so I think there was like some moments like that.
0:23:22 Dude, that’s gotta be like one of the most proud moments ever where you’re like, my wife
0:23:26 is seeing, uh, so, I mean like we, we would literally drive around, I mean, early like
0:23:30 and yell, like when we saw a ring on a house, like it was like, that was like a, and then
0:23:34 we kind of had to stop the ring game because it like, like it was like, you just became yelling
0:23:36 ring the whole time.
0:23:38 Um, but, but early on, yeah.
0:23:43 I mean, it’s like, and as an inventor, like that’s, that was, you know, if I, I, I never felt
0:23:47 like it was successful until we got the wire just because I felt like it could blow up,
0:23:53 but I did feel like I had created something meaningful and had that like satisfaction of
0:23:59 that just by seeing, like seeing these on everyone’s front door and, um, the stories that then they
0:24:03 created, like the, you know, stopping a crime, doing whatever, like those, those were the
0:24:04 things that were like, that was amazing.
0:24:08 I’m curious, the wire hits, we’ve asked a bunch of people about this on the podcast
0:24:12 cause it’s a, you know, it’s a moment you look forward to as a founder, like, like crazy,
0:24:15 but you know, it’s hard to actually get there.
0:24:18 And we’ve had some guys say, yeah, with the wire hit, you know, he’s like, I went to the
0:24:21 ATM the next five days just to print balance, you know, never pushed that button before,
0:24:22 but I was just so excited.
0:24:28 Or, um, you know, some people feel lost, you know, right afterwards, I guess like wire hits.
0:24:30 What, uh, where were you and what was going through your mind?
0:24:36 So I had booked, um, I don’t know if you know this company Task Us, but, um, the, the,
0:24:38 it’s a great public company now.
0:24:42 Um, the founders are friends that were, you know, kind of kids from Santa Monica that I
0:24:44 had known, uh, that started it.
0:24:47 And they asked me to speak at their customer conference like six months earlier.
0:24:52 And it was in New York, just like on whatever, some random day in April of 2018.
0:24:57 Um, because of how everything happens, like you sell, like you finally announced it and the
0:24:58 government has to inspect it.
0:25:01 And then even after that, there’s like, they have to like file stuff and whatever.
0:25:05 See, like the actual wire date is not like any of those dates.
0:25:08 It’s kind of a random time when it just comes.
0:25:15 And so it ended up being like, I’m at this event and I’m speaking in New York and I’m sitting
0:25:16 there and I’m like, I’m sorry, everyone.
0:25:18 Like I’m going to, I’m like, my phone’s out.
0:25:21 I’m like, I’m like, I can barely even like, I’m like, just like, I’m like, I’m just going
0:25:25 to keep refreshing this because the wire is supposed to come in and everyone known, like they
0:25:26 knew I’d sold.
0:25:29 So I’m like, the wire hasn’t come in yet, but it’s supposed to come in right now.
0:25:30 And I just like, I’m sorry.
0:25:35 I keep, you know, Wells Fargo, you know, it’s like, and, um, you’re like on stage.
0:25:38 You’re like, look, I know I was talking about customer service, but today I’m going to get
0:25:40 a, I’m going to give a talk on how to get rich.
0:25:40 Yeah.
0:25:42 I’m like, you know, money doesn’t matter to me.
0:25:42 It’s all about mission.
0:25:45 But like, but like, you know, hold on the next hour.
0:25:45 Yeah.
0:25:50 It’s like, like it’s all, and, and literally like it, you know, it comes in and there’s
0:25:52 like just commas and commas and commas.
0:25:55 And it’s like, like, how many commas could this be?
0:25:58 Like, you know, it’s like, it’s like, like to run on sentence.
0:25:59 Yeah.
0:25:59 Like, yeah, exactly.
0:26:00 Commas and commas.
0:26:05 And I just, I, uh, yeah, I, it was the best.
0:26:10 I mean, especially I had just gone through the most traumatic thing ever.
0:26:15 And from a money side, like I, if, if ring had exploded at that point, which it, I mean,
0:26:20 it, it got right on the edge of, it would have been like really impactful to my family.
0:26:25 Like, and I, like, it was like, uh, just not broke, but like, were you just like, you
0:26:30 know, seven, it’s like 150, $250,000 a year salaried person.
0:26:31 Like that.
0:26:31 Yeah.
0:26:33 It was like 150, I think at that point.
0:26:34 And I prided myself.
0:26:39 And this was, if I’m looking back, a real mistake, I prided myself on being like the least paid
0:26:40 executive.
0:26:40 Yeah, man.
0:26:41 That makes you desperate.
0:26:44 I did the same thing on a much smaller scale, but it made me desperate.
0:26:46 And that’s exactly right.
0:26:47 So here’s the other problem.
0:26:51 When you’re making that kind of money and you’re at a company that’s doing 480 million, people
0:26:52 are like, Hey, come to this charity event.
0:26:54 Oh, it’s only $10,000 a table.
0:26:55 Uh, do this.
0:27:00 And you kind of have to like, you’re, it’s like, you have to sort of take part in some
0:27:01 of this stuff, but you don’t actually have the money.
0:27:06 So you’re, you’re, you’re spending even more than you would making that salary regardless.
0:27:13 So, yeah, I, I was like, I mean, I was basically $0 and I mean, you know, I wasn’t like, I wasn’t
0:27:16 like in debt debt, but I wasn’t, I didn’t have like a nest egg.
0:27:21 And so if ring all of a sudden went away, like that was all my like future money was in ring.
0:27:22 I love how honest you are.
0:27:27 Most people, the more successful they get and the more sort of, you know, these moments,
0:27:29 like they try to either downplay or they’re just less, less honest.
0:27:32 And I think I, and by the way, I think this is why when I called you, I was like, that dude’s
0:27:32 happy.
0:27:37 I was like, it’s not like you’re like, you know, some yogi or, you know, a monk who’s just
0:27:37 like, you know, at peace.
0:27:38 That’s not that.
0:27:41 But I was like, I, you, you seem free.
0:27:45 And I think that that’s something that we all hope success gives us, but it’s actually not
0:27:46 the success that gives you that.
0:27:48 It’s you have to decide how you’re going to be.
0:27:53 I think also like, yeah, when you’re facing, like when you see what the other side is that
0:27:59 clearly, I do remember, like, it’s like, I remember how lucky I am sort of every day.
0:28:01 Like, I wouldn’t call it like this.
0:28:06 I mean, it is success, like money, but like money, I think I have so many friends that
0:28:11 have a lot of money that are not free, which is a shame because like, that’s really what
0:28:14 this gives you is the freedom to do what you want.
0:28:19 Like I get to wake up and work on things that I want to work on and impact things that I want
0:28:24 to impact and be with my son and take him on college tours this past weekend.
0:28:27 And like, I get to do things because of that.
0:28:31 And that, yes, like I am like overall, I’d say like that is very happy.
0:28:37 I want to take the mindset that you used to build Ring, your approach as a, as a founder
0:28:41 and kind of break that down and then see what other ideas might fit that.
0:28:46 So one of them that you told me, you said rule number one, you know, I like to start with
0:28:48 the problem, not the solution or the technology.
0:28:51 And so, you know, what did that mean for Ring?
0:28:54 And then what’s another example of an idea where you could, where you could take that kind
0:28:55 of problem first approach?
0:28:58 Yeah. I mean, so, so Ring was, I was in my garage and I couldn’t hear the doorbell.
0:29:01 So like, like, what do you, what do you need to do is you need to hear the doorbell.
0:29:07 Now, when you find that problem, it turns out a lot of times new technology can help impact
0:29:10 it. Like, oh, there’s smartphones coming out.
0:29:11 Okay. Well, those have screens.
0:29:14 Like there’s wifi now in homes.
0:29:18 There’s like this. So it is that technology can assist the problem.
0:29:23 I think the problem, the issue is most, a lot of founders will say, I found this new chip
0:29:27 that’s out there. What can we do with this? And so they don’t find a real problem. They just
0:29:31 like, you know, it is a technology looking for a problem. I like to start with like actually
0:29:37 something that is a true problem. And then it doesn’t matter what the tech is. I mean, that’s
0:29:42 part of what built Ring into the, where it is today is, and again, you’re going to laugh
0:29:48 with mission, but by being a mission to make neighborhoods safer, we don’t follow any technology.
0:29:53 We’re not a camera company. We’re not a alarm company. We’re not a social network company.
0:29:58 Like we are just a making neighborhoods safer company, which means like, regardless what comes
0:30:02 out or what we can think of, it doesn’t matter what it is. If it’s a steam engine in the middle
0:30:04 of the neighborhood and that’s going to make things sure, I don’t care.
0:30:09 And so you take that. Now, if I’m you and I’m like, oh, I was in the garage. I couldn’t
0:30:13 hear the doorbell. I think there’s a part of me, the inner critic that would have been
0:30:16 like, this is too small. Like, you know, that doesn’t sound like a big fancy idea. I’m trying
0:30:21 to do big fancy. I’m trying to be a big success, not a small success. And, you know, is it that
0:30:25 you did napkin math on like how many doorbells I could sell? Is it that you just don’t care
0:30:27 about market size? Like, how do you think about that?
0:30:33 There’s a guy who’s like somewhat successful and said to me, it’s the most insulting thing,
0:30:37 like almost anyone could ever say. And right when I’m doing this, he said to me, I kind
0:30:41 of put his arm on my shoulder and he was much more successful than me at the time. I am
0:30:45 now much more successful than he has ever been. And he put his arm on my shoulder and said like,
0:30:49 I love you, man. Cause you just like to work on these like little things. And it’s like
0:30:55 so cute and fun to see. And I was like, Oh my God, like that was the most, like, it was like when
0:31:00 you’re finding these things, it’s, if they were obvious that they were huge problems, someone would
0:31:05 be doing it. So it’s like, you have to find these problems that are sort of not obviously huge, but
0:31:10 sort of have that have, again, I look at it as like, what is the, what could it be? And so like with the
0:31:15 doorbell, it was a small thing. Cause even people were like a $200 doorbell, like there’s doorbells
0:31:20 are $10. And it’s like, so that was the problem. But if you really looked at it and zoomed out,
0:31:24 it was like, everyone has a doorbell in their house across the world, like globally, like literally a
0:31:30 doorbells on every home. So was Nest popular at this point? So Nest was popular as a thermostat.
0:31:41 And they had it sold, they were just selling or sold to Google and drop cam was actually the wifi
0:31:45 camera that was out there that was doing well. And that Nest ended up, you know, that
0:31:48 Tony ended up buying at Google to bring into Nest.
0:31:53 So maybe there was some inspiration where it’s like, okay, not the same thing, but like a
0:31:54 household item.
0:31:58 For sure. Oh, for sure. Like, and I was actually like super, in fact, I actually have an email
0:32:02 to Matt Rogers, who is the co-founder of Nest. Like when the Nest came out, I was like one
0:32:06 of the first customers and just said like, it super inspires us this, like what you’re doing
0:32:10 here. So yeah, no, there was, there was stuff happening, but yeah, I think it’s, it is hard
0:32:13 though to see like at the time how big a market is. Cause again, if it was obvious,
0:32:16 like everyone would just be like, Oh, the door, Oh, we should just do a doorbell. Like
0:32:18 look at this guy’s doing a doorbell. Like, let’s just, it’s going to be huge. And no one
0:32:20 thought it was going to be huge.
0:32:23 Did you have like a dream where you’re laying in bed talking to your wife? You’re like, you
0:32:26 know, I think, I think we can make a hundred million dollars one year, one day.
0:32:32 I didn’t, I kind of like built it. My wife was the one who said like, so this is, and this
0:32:36 is where she’s like, it makes me feel safer at home. And that was like, Oh, this
0:32:39 is like, again, like, this is more than just like scratching my itch in the garage.
0:32:46 And that was when I realized that the security market, like the overall security market had
0:32:53 not yet started looking at how you could build and invent products around presence and sort
0:32:59 of like true crime prevention. Like it was, the alarm was built in the 1800s and kind of
0:33:06 was pretty much like very, the same thing, which is like trigger off of a trip and call, you
0:33:09 know, a central station. Like it was like, that was kind of like best in class still.
0:33:13 And we were like, we can look at this problem differently, which, which is again, that’s,
0:33:17 that was the superpower was the, not just the doorbell, but then we did the floodlight camera.
0:33:22 Then we did like, we did all these things that were sort of unique because we were looking at
0:33:27 even the neighbors app, which is a, you know, it’s a huge social network for crime and safety
0:33:33 in neighborhoods. Like all that stuff came out of looking at the problem and trying to solve
0:33:37 it. So what’s an example of an idea today? You see a problem out there that you’re like,
0:33:38 somebody could go try to solve that.
0:33:43 Bugs. Like I just hate bugs. Like I’ve never found anyone that likes bugs.
0:33:48 And it’s amazing that there’s like, no one has actually created with all the technology,
0:33:53 like we can launch rockets up in the air and land them on like a little barge. We can like
0:33:57 do all this stuff, but we can’t get rid of freaking flies at my house in Missouri.
0:34:05 And so I just, I just feel like there’s gotta be simple ways to do this between like solar and,
0:34:09 you know, there’s just gotta be like ways to look at this problem differently than just either hitting
0:34:15 it with some toxin that’s going to kill us all as well. Or these other products that just don’t work.
0:34:16 Is that your current obsession?
0:34:21 So I have realized over time, you have to work on like one thing. Like you can’t
0:34:25 work on 10 different products. When I meet a founder that’s like, or, you know,
0:34:29 an entrepreneur that’s, I’m doing this and this, and they’re all different. I’m, I’d say
0:34:33 not, you know, 99 out of a hundred times, like they’re going to fail because they’re just
0:34:34 splitting their energy.
0:34:38 All right. Well, for the sake of entertainment, but also teaching our listeners and it’s fun.
0:34:41 Can we walk through this? Let’s say that you’re not at ring. And let’s say that this is like
0:34:46 actually the idea, which this idea potentially, I don’t know how it’s, I mean, now it’s obvious
0:34:49 that ring is awesome, but maybe in 2014, when you were offended someone, they’re like,
0:34:53 what? What? That sounds so stupid. And so maybe like a lot of people are going to think bugs,
0:34:58 flies. That’s it. That’s all you got. Like, let’s walk us through like this idea of like
0:35:01 why this is a big problem and like how you would attack or how you would go about solving this.
0:35:07 Yeah. So I would just like, literally, I would stick myself on the farm. I would get the soldering
0:35:12 iron out and I would just start like figuring it. I just be like, and also I immerse myself
0:35:16 in the problem. Like why are bugs going on the horses? Like, why are they, like, what are
0:35:19 they, like, what are they actually attracted to on this? Like, what are they doing? And I,
0:35:22 I would get on ChatGPT and I would be like trying to figure that out. And I’d be like
0:35:28 looking at everything. And I just figure out like what, like, and again, simplify, like,
0:35:32 like how do I go from a first principles approach? Like, what is the way to just get rid of these
0:35:38 damn things at scale? What would that be? How could you do it inexpensively? My feeling is it has
0:35:44 something to do with solar and either like some like kind of screw mechanism or suction just sort of
0:35:47 like, cause you got to, it’s like a big problem, right? Like it’s like a, it’s like a mass volume
0:35:51 problem. And so it’s like these, like, I keep thinking of these like little stations that you
0:35:57 just put all over your property and they’re just continually sort of like collecting and how to do
0:36:00 that. So that’s it. But I would just, and I just literally, I would just be like building this
0:36:05 stuff. Like I would start, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t do research. I wouldn’t ask friends if it’s
0:36:09 going to be a big business. I wouldn’t spend time on any of that stuff. I would be out there
0:36:16 like with solar panels and Dyson vacuum cleaners hooked up to lights and, you know, tubes. And
0:36:21 like, I’d just be like doing this stuff. Sam, have you seen our friend Julian’s obsession with bugs?
0:36:27 No. So we have this friend named Julian who’s like out of this world and like he’s, he’s only eaten
0:36:31 steak for like two years. And now he’s moved to Hawaii and he has a ranch and he’s doing crazy stuff.
0:36:36 So he moves to Hawaii, he buys a ranch and he starts building like, you know, a home and he’s,
0:36:40 he’s got this bug problem just like you. And because, you know, the big project he was doing
0:36:45 was the ranch. The big problem with the big project was the mosquitoes. And so he’s like,
0:36:50 he specifically focused on mosquitoes. And so he told me, he emailed me for like over a couple month
0:36:54 period that like just different things he was trying to do to what you were saying, like understand what
0:36:58 the hell’s going on with the mosquito. Where’s the root problems? Kind of first principles. And he’s
0:37:02 like, Oh, the problem is we try to kill the mosquito. No, you need to kill the eggs. Cause if you don’t
0:37:06 kill the eggs for every one mosquito you’re killing, there’s like whatever, a hundred mosquitoes that are
0:37:11 coming out. And then he tried, bought all the fancy contraptions. And then he realized like, Oh, they
0:37:15 lay their eggs in the water. And so what you need to do. And so I guess, I don’t know all the science
0:37:19 behind this, but he basically has this thing I got on the screen here. It’s like this, just a bucket
0:37:24 with water. And then you spray this, um, or you put this thing in the, in the water that’s going to
0:37:29 like kill the eggs when they try to lay them there. And so it like stops the cycle and he’s
0:37:34 like, I did it. I solved the problem with the mosquito. Um, the mosquito problem, which is that
0:37:38 they want to lay their eggs on stale water. So you put the dirt in their eyes, you make old stale water
0:37:42 as a trap for them. And then you put this thing in it. That’s going to, uh, it’s a harmless to human
0:37:47 bacteria, but it’s going to kill the eggs. And he’s, and he was like so pumped and like, look at this
0:37:53 thing. This thing has 11,000 bookmarks on a single tweet, which is like, you know, that’s pretty,
0:37:58 that’s pretty unusual, but it kind of shows a lot of people are like, you know, have this same itch,
0:38:01 the same problem and don’t really have a good solution. Yeah. And so it’s, and it’s like,
0:38:07 you know, is, is there a five or $10 billion company hiding in the bug space? Probably there
0:38:12 is like, probably like, I mean, it’s, it’s global, like every, like they’re everywhere. It’s, it’s also
0:38:17 like, I mean, it’s, it’s an issue on health, you know, mosquitoes cause health issues, flies cause
0:38:21 health issues. So it’s like, it actually like, there’s like real impact. So if you can figure something
0:38:25 out, like it actually, it, you know, it is probably, you know, a five or $10 billion thing.
0:38:30 It also seems like there might be like a branding thing that you did well with ring that like could
0:38:34 be applicable in the bug space. Like, I don’t know what all the big bug companies are, but I know raid.
0:38:39 It’s like, they all literally like, they look and sound like killing with like toxin basically.
0:38:44 And like the, you know, uh, it’s all branded and it look a monster energy looking can.
0:38:50 And you know, the way that these new, like Celsius and Alani new and prime, like a lot of the new
0:38:55 drinks came out and they’re literally like just energy drinks, but with a, like a different vibe.
0:38:59 I think that’s, that’s a good point is like, there’s like, it is the same thing where there’s
0:39:05 like a, there is a, probably a new brand in this that stands for, and it’s like, it’s not
0:39:10 environmentally safe because like, I’m like some eco warrior. It’s because like, you don’t want
0:39:14 to spray shit all over your house. Like you live in that. Like, it’s like, that’s not good.
0:39:19 Like we do these like bug bombs and stuff. Like there’s no way those are good for you. Like
0:39:19 it can’t be.
0:39:24 I thought the monster energy drink of a mosquito spray. It was a pretty good. Uh, that was pretty
0:39:25 good.
0:39:25 Yeah.
0:39:27 Right. Isn’t that what the can kind of looks like?
0:39:33 I wish someone would go do it. I wish it’d be amazing. And imagine in five years, someone
0:39:37 comes back and says like, I was listening to this thing. I had the same thing. I needed like
0:39:41 a little push. I got inspired and I built a $5 billion business out of it. Like that would
0:39:43 be the, like, that would be the coolest thing ever.
0:39:48 Ray, like we’re at war. We’re going to go to battle. I’d like the thing about these, this
0:39:52 weapon is if you don’t aim it in the right direction, there might be a, you know, there
0:39:54 might be a self-inflicted wound here.
0:39:58 Yeah. But you know, it’s bad when you’re using something, when you’re, when you’re, when you
0:40:03 say the name, I can taste that. Like, it’s not like I can smell it. Like I can taste what
0:40:07 that is like, because it’s like that toxin goes through your, it like blasts through your
0:40:07 skin.
0:40:12 My wife hates that stuff. Cause we have a dog, we have a baby. It’s like, she’s just like,
0:40:16 look, we can’t just spray this stuff all over. Like, yeah, I don’t know. It’s too risky.
0:40:20 Right. And so, I mean, what were you like using it as hairspray? Like why are you spraying
0:40:21 it all over the place?
0:40:24 Well, you know how it is when like, there’s a bug that it’s like that one episode of Breaking
0:40:28 Bad where there’s a fly in the, in the, in his like meth lab. I was meeting with a bug
0:40:33 the other day and like my house and I was like, okay, fine mission. I’m like suited up in a
0:40:38 hazard. Just going to war. But you know, you get carried away. One of the things you had
0:40:40 said I really liked was you called yourself a snowball.
0:40:43 Yeah. So there’s a snowball would be like, if you think about the fly thing, it would
0:40:49 be, I hate these flies. Okay. Like that’s the snowball starts going down the hill. And
0:40:53 then I’m just like taking stuff and soldering it together, doing it like it’s now it’s gathering
0:40:57 sort of it’s, and then it like hits something and like you lose a little bit off the snowball,
0:41:01 but it keeps going and just kind of roll down the hill. And by the way, some snowballs
0:41:04 when they’re rolling down the hill, they hits like a, they hit the tree and they just explode.
0:41:07 So like that could be the fly thing is you get to this point where you just can’t figure
0:41:12 it out. That totally happens. If you can see the finish line when you start, it’s usually
0:41:16 not a big, good thing. Like it’s, it’s like, that’s usually you’re, you’re not like, you’re
0:41:20 not inventing or you’re not changing the world typically if it’s like that clear how to get
0:41:23 from start to finish. And so, yeah, it’s like, I just kind of feel like I just kind of roll
0:41:28 down the hill and gather and you hope you don’t hit a tree. And as you get to the bottom
0:41:31 of the hill, you hope you’re like a bigger snowball. That’s, you know, I guess, you know,
0:41:35 hopefully good for the world. I guess snowball, if snowballs are good for the world, that you
0:41:36 are helpful.
0:41:41 When, when we got bought, we got bought by a Twitch and Emmett, the founder. Um, he’s this,
0:41:45 you know, great entrepreneur. And I was like, you know, my value of being there, I was there
0:41:49 to earn out my deal and, you know, be helpful, but I really wanted to learn from Emmett. I
0:41:52 was like, this is the one guy I want to learn from while I’m here. So I asked him, I said,
0:41:56 Hey, in the early days of Twitch, did you ever like send investor updates or anything? I’m
0:42:00 a little bit nosy. I was like, can I, would you share any of that with me? Like, I would
0:42:04 love to see that dude just as an entrepreneur. Like, what was it like 10 years ago? And he’s
0:42:07 like, sure. So he sent me this update. And one of the things he wrote in there, he goes, it
0:42:11 is one of his updates. Um, cause it was hard at the time, you know, they were doing a pretty
0:42:16 unproven thing. Uh, video game streaming, you know, what wasn’t clearly going to be a big
0:42:21 market, but he felt a sense of momentum. And he’s one of the investor updates. The title
0:42:26 was, we were a steamroller going through a field full of flowers. And he was like, just saying,
0:42:31 and they had gotten like 152 streamers that week. And he was like, yes. And so he was
0:42:35 just taking a lot of pride in the small stage. Cause if you just keep looking at the small
0:42:39 stage and poo pooing it, you never build up the momentum. Yeah. And the second thing he
0:42:42 said was like, same thing. He goes, you know, I really want to try to get into this like kind
0:42:46 of adjacent space. And I was like, why do you want to do that? Seems like there’s so much
0:42:49 more room to run still with game stream. And he goes, yeah, but he goes, you never want
0:42:52 to see the, the finish line. He’s like, if he’s like, cause I know he’s
0:42:56 like, I don’t want to be able to see the, like the horizon. Yeah. Um, at the end, he’s
0:42:59 like, even if that’s still five years away, I need to do something that’s going to push
0:43:04 the horizon out further so that we have more room to run. Um, and I’d really never thought
0:43:08 of it like that, but I guess, you know, as you play at scale, that’s obviously like an
0:43:12 important thing. It’s actually, I think I always think of goal. A lot of goals are actually
0:43:17 ceilings. Like you think of a goal and you want it to be something like you, you kind of
0:43:22 hitting a goal perfectly is probably means the goal wasn’t set, right? Like you, you
0:43:27 want to have these, uh, directional goals, like things that you could try to achieve that
0:43:32 are sort of tangible, but sort of in some ways unachievable so that you’re always like
0:43:36 to your point, like you’re just trying harder to get like, it’s, it’s the carrot on the stick
0:43:39 in front of you where like you can kind of never get the carrot, but you keep going for
0:43:39 it.
0:43:44 You have a life philosophy and a life outlook. That’s very different from mine, but frankly,
0:43:47 I’m envious of how you think about things, both like where you’re like, I start with
0:43:50 the problem and I’m an inventor, which sounds basic, but the way that you do it is quite
0:43:54 nice. You have a really good attitude. Uh, and then you just made this line about like
0:43:59 goals and ceilings, what people or what books do you think have influenced you? And if Sean
0:44:04 and I, or one of our listeners wanted to like kind of develop this Jamie mindset besides your
0:44:06 book, uh, shout out your book.
0:44:10 Yeah. I mean, I would of course read Ding Dong by Jamie Siminoff. I mean, I think that’s
0:44:16 the, the how to guide of, uh, uh, of business. No title by the way. Thank you. Thank you.
0:44:22 In all seriousness, no, I would, um, I think the book that stands out the most for me is
0:44:26 the Walt Disney biography. If you want to read this, like get ready, like you better clear
0:44:30 your calendar. Cause this thing is like, I think the audio books like 24 hours. I mean, it’s
0:44:34 whoever did that audio book died afterwards. Like it was like, that was like,
0:44:38 like of all the people that I’ve talked to and all the biographies that I’ve listened to
0:44:43 the Walt Disney biography might be the most cited version I’ve ever heard. And like, well, I’ve
0:44:49 never read it, but there’s all these stories, uh, where like on the small things, like apparently
0:44:53 someone was building like a train in Walt’s backyard for his kids or grandkids. I don’t know,
0:44:58 something like that. And he wasn’t there like a contractor that says like, well, we can’t make
0:45:02 the train curve. And he’s like, well, it has to curve because when someone’s on the train,
0:45:06 I don’t want them to know what’s coming up next. That is the embodiment of it. And it’s also,
0:45:12 he was so maniacal about every detail of every experience. And I was, what I was going to say
0:45:18 is when you read this book, you realize that he was tortured. He could never achieve what he wanted
0:45:24 to, which was like absolute perfection of this. And so when a movie would come out, like my, my,
0:45:28 the thing that I took out the most from his book was every movie that would come out. Cause you know,
0:45:33 he was pushing animation ahead, like, like the technology and animation. So like Snow White
0:45:38 and the Seven Dwarfs come out. He’s sitting in the theater in the back. Everyone’s watching it,
0:45:43 like literally mind blowing, like seeing what’s up there, but because he’s already working on the next
0:45:48 movie and the next iteration of animation, he knows that this is shit. Like he knows that like
0:45:53 that movie is not as good as the next one’s going to be. And he’s like literally like crying in the back
0:45:58 of this theater that he’s showing such a bad product to people. Cause it could be so much
0:46:02 better. And all he wants to show him is the next one. And I thought that’s like the struggle of a
0:46:09 true inventor and entrepreneur and like product person is like, you just like everything I put
0:46:13 out, I’m mad because I know I can be better. And it’s like that, just that constant thing.
0:46:17 And that’s like, that’s how you drive to be the best. And there’s definitely, you know,
0:46:20 like, I think you look at some of the greatest inventors and entrepreneurs out there,
0:46:26 you see that constant, just like that, that, that, that drive, like that engine that just,
0:46:32 they can’t stop. Yeah. You seem a lot happier than him, um, which is, uh, a good attribute to
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0:47:03 Another one of your, your philosophies as an entrepreneur that I really liked is you talked
0:47:09 about this idea of Tom Brady. I’ve used this, uh, you know, I did, we did this call before this pod,
0:47:14 uh, like a week ago or so I’ve already used it twice in my thinking in between. So that’s when,
0:47:17 you know, an idea sticks. So could you explain the Tom Brady, uh, hiring thing?
0:47:21 Yes. I mean, every team, like when you get to the, whatever, and I’m not that into sports,
0:47:24 but you know, they trade like the first trade pick for this. And like, they’re always trying
0:47:30 to get like the first pick of the, the, the, the, of like the, what is it called? The draft
0:47:39 is how much I’m into sports. So, but like every team, they, they had the chance to get Tom Brady
0:47:43 multiple times. Like, it’s actually insane. It’s like, they didn’t just have like one shot at him.
0:47:49 He was the 199th draft pick. Like everybody had the chance to get Tom Brady. And so while
0:47:53 everyone’s focused on like whatever the, the number one draft pick of that year, I don’t know,
0:47:58 the number top 10, I probably are unknown to us today. Um, but Tom Brady is one of the greatest
0:48:03 athletes of all time. And so to me as a, as a business, you have to find the Tom Brady’s.
0:48:08 They’re actually out there for you. Like everybody has access to Tom Brady or the Tom Brady of your
0:48:12 business of that area. It’s like, how do you find them? How do you incentivize them? How do
0:48:18 you let them become the Tom Brady? That is just the amazing thing. Whereas I meet with founders who
0:48:23 are like, Oh, I’m trying to get the person from the company of this. And it’s like, that’s the number
0:48:28 one draft pick. And you’re going to just probably pay too much. And honestly, they’re probably not
0:48:31 going to be known in 10 years. Great. Sounds good. How?
0:48:36 My, so there’s lots of people have lots of different methods for finding great people.
0:48:44 My thing is, uh, hire fast, fire faster. The mission really helps. So you sort of bring someone in,
0:48:48 like the interview is basically like, I mean, obviously like, do you have the skills to do the,
0:48:54 like the basic job? So like, it’s like, there’s like a sort of a light bar, but above that is just,
0:48:59 are you passionate? Do you want to work on this problem with us? Like, do you, and do you really
0:49:02 want to work on this problem with us? Like, do you want to wake up in the morning, excited about
0:49:07 this problem? If you’re passionate, you want to work on the problem and you have the minimum skillset
0:49:12 to do it. We’ll let you, we’ll let you try. Like, it’s just like, let, let, like, I don’t know,
0:49:17 go out there and throw the ball. Like, see how you do. And you give them massive autonomy in their
0:49:23 area. Like give them the ability to succeed or fail. I think another thing that a lot of companies do
0:49:30 is they so like wrap you in soft, like in, they don’t want you to fail. So they stop you from
0:49:34 succeeding. It’s like such a weird thing. It’s like, they, like, they, they’re so worried that
0:49:40 maybe you’re going to, you know, if you’re not able to do that level of the job. So we got to be careful.
0:49:44 Like, we don’t want you to be, be over your head versus like, let Tom Brady beat Tom Brady,
0:49:48 let him throw the ball. And, and, and when you let those people do it, it’s like, it’s incredible.
0:49:53 And yes, in the process of that, you’re going to have people that are just going to like, not be
0:49:58 able to, you know, succeed at those jobs and you, you know, you move on with them and you do it.
0:50:01 And by the way, you can be compassionate in that. It’s not, you don’t have to be.
0:50:07 How fast do you fire? Like when people say hire fast, fire fast, that’s, that’s a little bit vague.
0:50:11 So like, uh, let’s say you meet someone, how fast would you offer a job?
0:50:16 I would say at that time, like, I mean, you know, we’re probably not in that sort of like with Amazon now
0:50:20 and stuff. It’s like, obviously, and it is, as you get bigger, like things are a bit different.
0:50:22 Back in the start days, I’d say like three to six months.
0:50:27 Cause you certainly don’t want to like, it’s not like the first day someone comes in, you say like,
0:50:31 okay, you’re bad, like, or, or you’re good. I mean, it takes someone a little bit of time to get their,
0:50:33 like their feet wet to get sort of get their footing.
0:50:37 But you want to be pretty quick. It’s, it’s, I would say it’s very rare.
0:50:42 If you talk to almost anyone that, you know, an entrepreneur or leader that they say like,
0:50:47 I wish pretty much anyone that you say, like when they fired someone, it’s like, I wish I’d done it sooner.
0:50:50 So three to six months. What about hiring?
0:50:54 Hiring is like on the spot. I’m a, I’m a, I’m a, I’m a, like, I mean, again,
0:50:58 Amazon is a little bit different now. So I want to just be like, honest of like, yes,
0:51:01 like we have a bigger company and we have like some more like it, and you have to do that.
0:51:03 It’s like, that’s part of the, that’s par for the course.
0:51:08 But, but yeah, we were like, like Mimi, who is my chief revenue officer today.
0:51:14 She cold emailed me and said, I worked at Dyson. I now work at Sonos.
0:51:17 You know, I see what you guys are doing. I’m in the neighborhood. I’d love to stop by.
0:51:21 So great. Stop by. So she sits down with Don and I, Don runs our sales.
0:51:24 She starts talking. I look at Don, Don looks at me. I said, we should just hire her, right?
0:51:25 He goes, yeah. I said, okay, you’re hired.
0:51:29 And she’s like, she’s kind of like, like, are you two jokers serious? Like, this is like,
0:51:34 I was just coming to talk to you. And I’m like, Beth, done. I’m like, do you not want to work here?
0:51:38 And she’s like, no, no, I want to work here. I’m like, well, then, then just come into work here.
0:51:40 She’s like, what am I doing? I’m like, I don’t know. You just said,
0:51:44 you seem to like know all these problems we have. So like, go fix them. Like, I, like you just told
0:51:48 me that we’re doing all this stuff wrong. Like, why don’t you just take whatever that is, like make
0:51:51 that job title and go do it. And she’s our chief revenue officer today. So.
0:51:56 Have you ever heard Warren Buffett describe his, his thing with this, with people and the too hard
0:52:03 pile? No, I actually haven’t. So, um, this guy came on the podcast, Monish Pabrai. And he,
0:52:09 in the episode he described, he, he bought a charity lunch from Buffett for $650,000. He had learned so
0:52:14 much from Buffett. He had been super successful doing Buffett’s method basically. And he’s like,
0:52:19 this is my, my tuition is overdue. So he’s like, I’ll, I’ll do, I’ll buy the charity lunch and we’ll
0:52:24 go. And I have no expectations. So I said, what did you ask him? And he asked Warren Buffett, he goes,
0:52:28 Warren, you seem to be a really good judge of people. Like he hired some pretty great people
0:52:33 inside of Berkshire and you’ve avoided a lot of the kind of like doing the wrong acquisition. So you seem
0:52:38 to be a good judge of people. Um, what’s your, what’s the secret? And Warren Buffett goes,
0:52:43 no, I don’t think I’m that good at people. He goes, I think what I do is I’m a very harsh
0:52:52 grader. So he said, um, uh, he goes basically the cost of me saying no to a good person, to somebody
0:52:56 who actually turned out to be good. It’s not that consequential of say, if they turned out to be good
0:53:02 and I happened to say no, cause I couldn’t tell. But if I say yes to too many people who happen to be
0:53:06 really bad, that becomes a very costly and very hard for me to unwind. So he goes, if I was at a dinner
0:53:10 party and there was a hundred guests and you let me spend five minutes with each person,
0:53:15 he goes, I could, without a doubt, I could tell you these five, no doubt are fantastic.
0:53:20 These five definitely stay away. They’re sort of toxic or there’s something, you know, uh, that I
0:53:24 don’t trust about them. And then there’s 90 people who I don’t know, I can’t tell in five minutes and
0:53:29 they all go in what I call the too hard pile. It’s just too hard to tell. And he goes, a lot of life
0:53:33 just works by putting everything else in the too hard pile and just focusing on the five things that you
0:53:37 were pretty clear and pretty sure about in a very small amount of time. And everybody wastes their
0:53:42 time trying to get clarity on that 90%. That’s very hard to figure out. It takes a lot of time and
0:53:47 energy and you’re going to get it wrong a lot. Yeah. And I say, I, so, and so kind of my method
0:53:53 has been on the hiring is the too hard pile is I’m aware that I’m not that good at figuring out
0:53:58 who’s in that pile always. And so if it, if I’m wrong, I’m just going to be very quick to sort of
0:54:01 pull the trigger. And by the way, like you can also be wrong pulling the trigger. Like if you’re
0:54:05 pulling the trigger after three to six months, like you can be wrong. Um, I’ll also say like,
0:54:11 there’s lots of people who didn’t fit our culture who went on to do incredible things and are incredibly
0:54:17 successful. So it’s not that like failing at ring was failing in life. It was, you just didn’t fit what
0:54:23 we were doing. And we are a unique lock and you want a unique key to work in that lock. And that’s where
0:54:28 I would say the empathy side, like I didn’t fire them being like, you’re terrible. Get out of here.
0:54:33 Like, it was like, it just doesn’t like, we’re not working out together. Um, and I would feel bad
0:54:37 for every single one of them that they have to go back to their family or whatever. Like that,
0:54:42 what is a, that did weigh on me, but I also wanted the business to have this clarity and to move fast
0:54:48 and to, uh, you know, and from the above it, they, like, I will say the wrong people are really,
0:54:50 really could be like, that’s bad.
0:54:54 Can I ask you about one thing here? You said, um, I just don’t know how to stop.
0:54:57 And sometimes it’s not smart and it costs me.
0:55:02 Yeah. It’s like, this is like the, this is like the, uh, Jerry Maguire. Like you’re going to make
0:55:07 me cry, Sam. You’re going to do this. Yeah. I mean, I think if I, if I look at like part of,
0:55:12 you know, it’s, it’s even like, we talked about that ADT thing. It’s like, I just keep going.
0:55:20 Like I just don’t stop. And, you know, overall that’s probably like, you know, I think it’s what
0:55:24 I keep telling you. Young people keep asking me, like, what should I do? You know, AI is coming out.
0:55:28 Like, I don’t know where I should go to college or what should I do? And it’s like, just put yourself
0:55:33 in a position where you can just grind, like just go grind because you just got to get out. Like
0:55:37 it’s, it’s, no one knows where the world’s going to go. No one knows what’s happening. You can’t
0:55:42 control the world. Everyone like acts as if they can. Luck has to be your co-pilot. And so just go
0:55:46 out there and just, just keep grinding. And a lot of those times when you’re grinding, it’s hard because
0:55:52 when you can’t actually see where it’s getting you to, you talk to entrepreneurs that have already
0:55:56 made it. So it’s like people say that the average business takes seven years to be successful.
0:55:59 So we’ll say to me, so you’re like, it’s kind of like you knew when you started that you had seven
0:56:03 years. It’s like, no, you don’t ever know that it’s going to be successful. Like it’s the average.
0:56:11 It’s just, so I do think the grinding thing is it’s underestimated how hard that is to keep grinding
0:56:17 because it’s, you don’t see where it’s going. And you need sometimes to have these weird other
0:56:22 factors happen that are out of outside of your control to make your success happen. Just like
0:56:27 Instagram coming out while we’re building a camera at your front door. You know, that’s super powered
0:56:34 our message. I didn’t build Instagram. I didn’t like push it out there. I didn’t help it. I didn’t know
0:56:39 it was coming, but I kept grinding on my side and got lucky on some of these other things.
0:56:45 This is for the folks out there who have a business that does at least $3 million a year in revenue,
0:56:49 because around this point, that’s when you’re able to look up after being heads down for years
0:56:54 building your company and you realize two things. One, you’ve done something great, but you’re still
0:56:59 a long way from your final destination. And two, you look around and you realize, I am all alone.
0:57:06 I’ve outrun my peers, which means you’re now making $10 million decisions alone by yourself. And that is
0:57:12 when mediocrity can creep in. My company, Hampton, we solved this problem by giving a room of vetted peers,
0:57:17 of other entrepreneurs who are going to hold you accountable, call you out on your nonsense and
0:57:22 help show you the way. Because the fact is, is that there’s only a tiny number of people in your town
0:57:27 who know what you’re going through and who have been there. And they’re hard to find. The biggest risk is
0:57:32 not failing. You have a company and it’s working. You’re going to be fine. But the biggest risk is waking
0:57:38 up 10 years from now and saying, shit, I barely grew in business and in life. And for people like you who are
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0:57:55 your life. It changed mine. And I know it will change yours. So check it out. Joinhampton.com.
0:58:02 One of the things I liked that you told me was you look for products where 90% of the marketing is
0:58:07 already done. And I called it last mile marketing. And you were describing how this worked in your
0:58:12 favor at ring and how sometimes an entrepreneur can go wrong if you, if you really need to like educate
0:58:17 the market about something completely from scratch. Yeah. So it’s, it’s, and I, so I would call it
0:58:23 pre-awareness. So if you can, if you can try to like give a little bit of invention, a little bit
0:58:29 of differentiation to something that has pre-awareness, it’s incredible because if you look
0:58:35 at the, there’s a cost, just look at like the cost, like a new to world product, you have the cost to
0:58:41 tell someone about it is incredibly expensive. Like if I have to tell you about some products and
0:58:45 everything I have to tell you about it is, is new to world, it’s very hard for you to understand it.
0:58:50 And they like go to the film business. Like when it’s a completely new film, it costs more to market
0:58:54 it than Top Gun too. Because Top Gun too, like, you know, everything, like, you know, Top Gun, you
0:58:59 know, you know, Tom Cruise, like there’s so much pre-awareness in that. The doorbell, putting a camera
0:59:04 on a doorbell. And again, I sort of got lucky to learn this thing is everyone knew where the doorbell
0:59:09 was mounted. They knew what the doorbell did. They knew like the functionality of it. I just added
0:59:13 like a piece to that. I did the same thing with a floodlight camera. You knew what a floodlight
0:59:17 looked like, you knew where it goes, like, you know, what it does for you. And now you add a
0:59:21 camera to it. And so wherever you can use this pre-awareness, I mean, like liquid death, like
0:59:26 it’s water. Like you didn’t have to tell someone like what this drink was or like, it’s like,
0:59:31 but they changed like a piece of it. And so I just think like changing a piece of it, getting your edge
0:59:37 on it in something where there’s pre-awareness, great, great way to start because you get billions
0:59:40 or hundreds of billions of dollars, like in my case, like the doorbell. Think about how much
0:59:47 like advertising sort of dollars or whatever, like you want to call it, you know, come from
0:59:50 the doorbell just being known for the last hundred years.
0:59:55 All right. So I told everyone that, you know, we give a list. We were like, let’s start with ideas.
1:00:00 Let’s start with strong opinions and cool stories. You have one on here that actually was probably one
1:00:05 of the most eye-catching things I’ve ever read. You bought a town in Missouri. Is that right?
1:00:11 Well, I went to a town in Missouri that had, in a lot of these small towns now, if you go out into
1:00:17 the Midwest and to some of these areas between like the opioid issues, industrial farming, like these
1:00:23 towns have just been just pummeled. And this town, LaBelle, Missouri, when I went there was really like,
1:00:26 I would say it was in, it was in pretty tough shape.
1:00:31 You’re actually, you’re actually the second guest that we’ve had that has bought a town
1:00:37 in Missouri. The first is Al Doan. He bought a small town, him and his mom own a knitting company
1:00:38 that is a multi-hit.
1:00:41 Totally know that town. Yeah. That’s amazing.
1:00:46 So, so basically Al and his mom, his mom started it and then Al, I guess is like running it where
1:00:51 it’s like a knitting company and he has bought a town in Missouri and he calls it like a Disneyland,
1:00:52 but for knitters.
1:00:57 Yeah. I think, I think it is, but it’s become this, this place has become like the Mecca, like people go
1:00:58 there. It’s amazing.
1:01:04 Oh, by the way, Al, I’m so sorry. It’s called Missouri Quilting Company. It’s, I totally missed it.
1:01:08 I actually, I do want to talk, I got to talk to him at some point because I, he’s done some amazing
1:01:12 stuff. What I tried to do though, is just a little different. So they, they’ve made it like it is,
1:01:16 it is an incredible destination and they’ve done an incredible, like from what I’ve seen, like an
1:01:23 incredible job. My thing was, I really just wanted to help bring this town. Again, I’m an inventor.
1:01:28 I look at things that I see that are sort of not where I believe they should be or a problem. Again,
1:01:32 we go to our problem, right? Like what’s the problem? The problem is that this cute little town
1:01:38 no longer has any business. The sidewalks are broken. And also people’s perspective had changed.
1:01:40 How did you show up there though?
1:01:44 So I invested in a business off of Shark Tank. I went back on Shark Tank as a shark,
1:01:49 invested in a business called Moink, this woman, Lucinda Cramsey from LaBelle, Missouri.
1:01:56 And, and she has this direct to consumer meat company where we buy from small farmers and send
1:02:02 it out very missionary, really cool little business. And I go there and visit with my family. And
1:02:07 I just like fall in love with the place. My son’s running around on hay bales. He doesn’t even know
1:02:11 what his phone is at that point. Like, it’s just like, you know, we’re coming from Los Angeles
1:02:18 and like, it’s just amazing. And I ended up buying a little farm there and fixing up the house and
1:02:24 getting involved with the community. The town was really in sort of a tough place. And so we started
1:02:29 fixing up the sidewalks and like kind of the broken windows theory of like, if you kind of start fixing
1:02:34 some stuff up, you know, when other people join in, there was a lot of like kind of trash on some
1:02:38 lots and like kind of that kind of stuff. And so people started cleaning up their stuff. We cleaned
1:02:43 up the streets and the, and the sidewalks. We then took the building that was broken on the side of the
1:02:48 thing and fixed it up and made it into a beautiful coffee shop. There was no place. It’s like crazy. There
1:02:53 was no place within an hour to sit with someone during the day and talk to them about anything
1:02:59 except the bar. And I like going to a bar, but a bar is not a great place to have like a civil discussion about
1:03:04 things. And so like the coffee shop is an important fabric of the community. So we brought the coffee shop
1:03:11 there and it’s like, that became cool and actually became successful. And then we helped fix up the tavern in
1:03:17 town and made it this awesome, it’s like the coolest bar ever, but it’s like farm to table with organic grass fed
1:03:21 beef from my ranch. No one even cares because out there they just like, they’re like, well, whatever.
1:03:25 But it’s like literally the best food you’ll ever have. Like anywhere. It’s like incredible. It’s like
1:03:30 literally probably the best like beef in the world. And then a doctor put an office there and a health
1:03:35 clinic now, and that’s been helping and the town’s gotten healthier. And as that happens, people, so it’s
1:03:41 like this, again, this is the snowball factor. Like the, the, the, the incredible flywheel of you get
1:03:45 things going and then people sort of take it from there. They also are like, I don’t want this,
1:03:50 you know, Jamie, this city slicker from LA. Why is he making all the money? Like I want to, I, you know,
1:03:53 it’s great. Like have the greed be there. Someone started building apartments, like little apartments
1:04:00 there. Um, it’s a town of 700. It’s amazing. That’s badass. So what, what do you think makes,
1:04:04 um, like there’s all those like levers that you talked about, like, you know, the coffee shop. So the
1:04:09 people have this third place, there’s fixing the sidewalks and the broken windows. I imagine like,
1:04:13 I don’t know, sports or church, there’s like other things that kind of like revitalize the community.
1:04:17 Was there anything that surprised you that like how, how much of a difference it made? Like it
1:04:21 seems small, but actually it’s pretty big. What surprised me, or I should say should,
1:04:25 didn’t surprise me. So when I went to it, I’m like, I’ll just buy, like you said, like I bought a town,
1:04:31 like, and I, I did not, like I, I took part with others in the town to change the perspective. And so I
1:04:36 was a catalyst, but like, it turned out you needed everyone. So would you be comfortable revealing how
1:04:38 much like you had to invest or how much money?
1:04:45 It’s, it’s, it’s quite a bit, but I’d say the, the, what really needed though, was everyone to join
1:04:49 in. Like, it wasn’t like you could, this is actually what’s interesting is it wasn’t the money. Like
1:04:53 when I went there, it’s like, I would like, I saw the town. I’m like, I’ll write a check, you know,
1:04:56 it’s like, sadly, like I was like, I’ll write a check and I’ll like, just fix this whole place up.
1:05:00 And it’ll be nice. Like, I’ll just do that. Like, and then no one would even sell me any
1:05:05 properties. Everyone was like, ah, like it. And then I just started to get involved in the town.
1:05:10 I drive my backhoe into town, you know, like with a Bud Light and the cup holder and like,
1:05:14 you know, talking to everyone. And like, they realized that I’m just one of, like, I am one
1:05:15 of them. And like, we’re just all friends.
1:05:18 This is like a movie, man. And this is the scene where like,
1:05:19 Totally.
1:05:20 This guy, you might be all right.
1:05:26 Yeah. And I did because I, I am, I love sitting out with them at the side of a pickup truck,
1:05:31 watching this sunset on the farm and having a beer. Like I, that’s my happiest place to be.
1:05:35 So, and then I started, we started fixing up the sidewalks and I went out there and like,
1:05:39 I was part of it. That was the other thing is truly being part of it. It wasn’t the money. It was like
1:05:44 showing that support. And then another guy in town’s like, I’m going to help fix this up. And I’m like,
1:05:48 great. And we just, it was, you know, it’s like also what created ring. It’s like a thousand
1:05:53 things that we did. It’s not one thing. And so it’s like, there was nothing that surprised me.
1:05:59 That was like one thing we did. I am surprised. I mean, the coffee shop I thought would lose money.
1:06:03 I just didn’t want it to lose too much money. It actually makes money. So that was surprising.
1:06:11 But I’d say what the, the unsurprising thing is, it’s like, it’s just, it’s, it’s also a long thing.
1:06:15 Like it’s been seven years that I’ve been working on this now with the, with the people there.
1:06:20 I’d say we’re like now turning the corner, but it’s probably another seven years to get it
1:06:25 really where you’d hope it to be. Because it just, it’s like every year you do another project,
1:06:27 every year you do another thing. Like you can’t just do it all at once.
1:06:34 Every four months in this podcast, here’s what happens. You see Sean and I sit on our hands like
1:06:40 this. If we just stare at you because we’re in, you got us.
1:06:45 If you guys are in, let’s do a podcast from LaBelle, Missouri. Sam, I mean, you can, you know,
1:06:48 you can go visit home and then, and then come up. So.
1:06:52 Well, I’ve been for that. That’s what I was saying was I’m in on Jamie.
1:06:55 I think it’s so cool. I mean, even the way we said it was wrong. It’s not that you bought a town,
1:07:01 you invested time and energy and money into a town. You invested kind of a piece of soul into it.
1:07:07 And the idea is kind of like some places just need a little bit of that, like CPR just to bring them
1:07:11 back to life and get that, you know, it takes a little bit of pumping.
1:07:19 A catalyst. Like I was a catalyst, but I was not the, again, it’s like, it is a business, right? Like
1:07:24 it takes a team. It takes everyone being on board. Everyone really, like it’s all these things are the
1:07:29 same thing. Like it’s, it’s not just like getting venture capital money and you just make it like,
1:07:35 you don’t just like, you know, do that. It’s like, it’s very, it’s hard to build something great.
1:07:40 The, uh, the TripAdvisor page is pretty cool. You guys named stuff, uh, really well. It’s called
1:07:49 the top places, the milk weed in the Tik TOK motel, Tippi’s bar and grill, Stanley’s diner. I’m in,
1:07:52 I want to say, I want to stay and eat at all those places.
1:07:59 Awesome. I think, you know, in the sort of like, I don’t like the idea of legacy. I think legacy is
1:08:06 just sort of like a, um, ego thing, but I do think, uh, we do get remembered for certain things by
1:08:10 others and it’s not always what we expected. It’s not always in our control. And I think what you’re
1:08:16 doing here is, is really cool. This would be, if you’re on a Ted talk, I, you know, I actually want
1:08:20 to hear this story more than the ring story. I think it’s, it’s such a cool life resume,
1:08:24 you know, when, and I’m sure it’s been very like satisfying and fulfilling in a way that
1:08:29 just doing another company or hitting another like quarterly sales goal would never do for you at this
1:08:33 stage. And so I think it’s pretty awesome to hear that. Cause I think, you know, we all want to,
1:08:39 we’re in the game of entrepreneurship initially for the success and then satisfy some insecurity,
1:08:43 get some financial independence, but then why do you stay in the game? Well,
1:08:48 it’s cause it’s fun to play. And to like, these projects are just vehicles. It’s just like workout
1:08:53 equipment. Um, it’s, you’re, you’re there to have to like, to go for a ride. You’re there to grow a
1:08:57 little bit. And so I think this is a really cool project that, that you did. The entrepreneurs should
1:09:01 be making the world better. And so like, whether it’s on a big scale, small scale, whatever, like we
1:09:05 should just be like working to do that. Is this going to be like a second act for you? I mean, this is
1:09:09 like, first of all, this is like, you know, I don’t, we have to figure out how the story ends and
1:09:13 like, hopefully there’s like a good, like a fairytale ending of it. Like the town thrives or whatever,
1:09:16 but like, is there like a book here? Is there a movie here? Because it seems like a pretty,
1:09:20 like a pretty funny and like interesting tale.
1:09:26 I, I mean, maybe, I don’t know. I, I, I kind of just would hope that I just wish more people would
1:09:31 go do this. Like, I just think like we need to, like, it’s like, I, if we could use, if all the
1:09:37 people that have learned so much could use their brains and a little bit of their capital to do this,
1:09:41 like we would solve so many problems because it is going to the root of the problem. Like,
1:09:47 like we look, we keep, we always treat the output of the problems. Like we have hospitals to treat
1:09:52 people that have had sugar all their lives, but we don’t stop people from eating sugar. And then we try
1:09:56 to tell them not to eat sugar, but we actually don’t like do things to make sure that like,
1:10:01 they understand why. And so it’s like, I think like part of this is like, if you look at this,
1:10:05 this area now, it’s like healthier. Like, it’s like all these things. And so how do you like,
1:10:09 how do you figure out like the root of problems in fixing this? So I, I’d say like,
1:10:14 LaBelle is just like one of, I don’t even know, 5,000 towns in the U.S. that have the same thing.
1:10:21 And if you grew up like that, you know, there’s going to be like societal issues that come from
1:10:26 if we leave areas behind. And so we think that like, I’m in New York city right now. I’m from
1:10:31 Missouri. I’m in New York city right now. And there’s the Langone, um, hospital nearby. And
1:10:34 it’s just, you know, the guy who started home Depot probably donated a billion dollars to this
1:10:37 hospital, but then like a four blocks away, there’s this other hospital, this other hospital,
1:10:43 this other hospital, all rich guys. And that’s wonderful, you know, great. But what is not
1:10:48 talked about is like middle America or like, you know, instead of like donating to different
1:10:53 countries, like it’s, it’s not particularly accessible in terms of it’s top of mind or it’s
1:10:58 even thought of as a thing of like investing into a small town, but it seems like a really
1:11:04 awesome way to give directly to the recipients, but also the T the teaching them how to fish
1:11:10 kind of idea of like, look, I’m, I’m helping. It’s our town. It’s your town. And I’m just
1:11:15 here as a part of it. And it makes it just a little bit better, which snowballs into something
1:11:20 bigger. And that, and that’s really fascinating because every rich person or a lot of rich
1:11:25 brewers, they want to do dope shit. They do want legacy. And like, it seems like a really
1:11:25 great option.
1:11:30 I think it is. And it’s where you can also use like your superpower of what you’ve learned.
1:11:34 Like you can actually like impart your knowledge. It’s not, it’s not just money. It’s like money
1:11:39 obviously does help, but you need a little bit of that like spark to help, but it’s not cash.
1:11:44 It’s like actually more about using your brain and helping. And by the way, what you learn from it,
1:11:48 like what I’ve learned from being there is incredible. Like that’s the other side. Like we,
1:11:51 which is they just share more. A lot of the tech guys, it’s like, you know,
1:11:58 cool to be in politics right now. And I’ve, that is not my personal inspiration. And I hear a story
1:12:02 like this and I’m like, man, that sounds so much more helpful and very fascinating.
1:12:07 Yeah. Very cool, Jamie. Well, I appreciate you coming on, telling the story. Shout out the book.
1:12:11 It just came out two days ago. So shout out the book. People should read it to hear,
1:12:14 to get the full story. What’s it called? Where do people get it?
1:12:20 So it’s a ding dong. Um, how a shark tank reject went to everyone’s front door. It’s available on
1:12:26 amazon.com. Man, you’re the best. We, um, you know, Sean and I have a bunch of favorite people. I think
1:12:32 Jesse Itzler, Rob Dyrdek, we’ve had on about four or five other guys. Uh, you have just made our Mount
1:12:37 Rushmore. Thank you for doing this. Thank you. I’ll see you in Missouri. We’ll be doing a follow-up
1:12:41 podcast from there. There we go. I’m in, I don’t know about Sean. I’m in, I’m in, I’m in,
1:12:46 I’m in. How can you say no after, after such a great story? Well, thanks for doing it. That’s the
1:13:00 pod. Hey, let’s take a quick break. I want to tell you about a podcast that you could check out. It is
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1:13:31 Listen to the science of scaling wherever you get your podcasts.