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0:02:02 Welcome to Prop G on Money, a special series where we’re joined by Morgan Housel,
0:02:06 best-selling author of The Psychology of Money, along with his latest, The Art of Spending Money.
0:02:12 This is the second and final episode where we’re taking your questions on all things money, saving, spending, and everything in between.
0:02:18 Anyways, if you’d like to submit a question for next time, you can send a voice recording to officehoursofpropgmedia.com.
0:02:20 Again, that’s officehoursofpropgmedia.com.
0:02:23 Or post your question on the Scott Galloway subreddit.
0:02:26 Morgan, you ready to chop some wood here?
0:02:27 Let’s do it.
0:02:31 Our first question comes from user DeliciousCoffee993 on Reddit.
0:02:32 They say,
0:02:39 At what liquid net worth should people consider just slowing down and enjoy time over continuing to build via paychecks?
0:02:44 Unless you start your own business, it is unlikely most people will hit Scott’s level of wealth.
0:02:46 So at what point should people consider it enough?
0:02:47 Or put another way,
0:02:52 at what point is another $1 million just not worth the loss of time with kids, parents, etc?
0:02:57 The difficulty of this question is how easy it is to tell yourself,
0:03:00 once I have $1 million, that will feel like it’s enough.
0:03:02 Or $5 million, or $10 million, whatever it might be.
0:03:04 And you genuinely tell yourself that.
0:03:05 You genuinely believe it.
0:03:08 That once you have that much, then you won’t feel any desire for more.
0:03:11 And if you are like 99.9% of people,
0:03:14 if you’re fortunate enough to get to $1 million, $5 million, $10 million, whatever it is,
0:03:17 then the right amount is going to be roughly double that.
0:03:19 There’s so much evidence from the research that shows that
0:03:21 no matter how much money you have or how much money you earn,
0:03:25 the amount that you think is enough is double of what you have right now.
0:03:28 People who have $100 say the right amount is $200.
0:03:31 People who have $100 million say the right amount is $200 million.
0:03:32 It tends to be that.
0:03:36 It’s always just this perpetual moving of the goalpost to do that.
0:03:43 Now, there is a thing where if you are satisfied with your relationships,
0:03:45 you’re satisfied with the work that you do,
0:03:47 you have a good marriage,
0:03:48 your kids admire you,
0:03:52 the city and the town that you live in really admires you,
0:03:54 then your desire to say,
0:03:56 I need so much more,
0:04:00 tends to be much less than it otherwise would be.
0:04:03 So I think if you are very confident in other aspects of your life,
0:04:08 then your desire to associate your net worth with your self-worth really diminishes.
0:04:10 And so I guess to answer the question,
0:04:12 there is no right amount for that.
0:04:15 I know people who have lived very good,
0:04:19 amazing lives pretty much in some form of retirement with half a million dollars.
0:04:23 There are also deca billionaires who wake up every single morning saying,
0:04:23 it’s not enough.
0:04:24 It is not enough.
0:04:27 This is the classic Chris Rock joke where he said,
0:04:28 if Bill Gates woke up with Oprah’s money,
0:04:29 he’d jump out the window.
0:04:33 And so there’s always a level at which it’s never going to feel like it’s enough.
0:04:40 Understanding your propensity to move the goalpost and your desire to find value in your life
0:04:43 outside of your net worth is one of the most important topics with money.
0:04:46 Yeah, I think about this a lot.
0:04:48 So you say something, Morgan, that really resonated with me,
0:04:51 and that is rich is the stuff you see.
0:04:53 Wealth are the things you don’t see, right?
0:04:55 The real wealth is a peace of mind.
0:04:57 You know you’re bulletproof.
0:04:59 You don’t need a flashy car.
0:05:03 And so I used to think of, I no longer say this is what rich is.
0:05:05 I say this is what wealth is.
0:05:08 And that is figure out how much money what your burn is.
0:05:11 Say you need $100,000 to live your life.
0:05:15 What wealth is, is you don’t have to do anything.
0:05:16 You don’t have to get up.
0:05:18 Whatever you do, you choose to do for money
0:05:21 because your passive income is $100,000 a year.
0:05:24 And generally speaking, a general benchmark is to say,
0:05:28 okay, if that number is $100,000 times it by 25,
0:05:31 that assumes that 4% post-tax return,
0:05:32 you’re pretty bulletproof,
0:05:35 which means that once you’ve managed to save $2.5 million,
0:05:38 which isn’t easy, you’re done, or you’re technically wealthy.
0:05:42 So the question then becomes, well, what is that number?
0:05:47 And for me, that number has gone up 100-fold,
0:05:48 and I’m not exaggerating.
0:05:50 I thought, when I was in college, I thought,
0:05:54 if I ever have a base of a million bucks of liquid net worth,
0:05:55 I’m kind of done.
0:05:56 And that is, I’ll be working just to work.
0:06:01 Then as I got older, and I thought about a family and a house,
0:06:03 it went to $10 million.
0:06:05 And then when I got to $10 million,
0:06:07 I decided I’d really like to have a plane.
0:06:10 I’d really like to give money away.
0:06:14 I’d really like to feel like I’m relevant.
0:06:18 And unfortunately, and I hate to say this at my age,
0:06:20 relevance for me is still strongly attached
0:06:22 not only to my professional relevance,
0:06:23 but how much money I make.
0:06:25 And I can’t snap out of it.
0:06:27 And I’ve said openly,
0:06:29 I think everyone has certain addictions,
0:06:30 and that is, what is an addiction?
0:06:31 Something you engage in,
0:06:33 despite it having negative ramifications
0:06:34 in other parts of your life.
0:06:37 I’m addicted to the affirmation of others.
0:06:40 If someone comes on on YouTube and says,
0:06:42 Morgan’s amazing, but Scott’s an awful human being,
0:06:44 it will bum me out and maybe take me away
0:06:46 from my kids for a few minutes.
0:06:46 That’s an addiction.
0:06:47 It shouldn’t matter.
0:06:49 I’m also addicted to money.
0:06:53 I got lucky again, and I’m done.
0:06:54 Theoretically, I’m done.
0:06:58 If I have a bad day in the market, it upsets me.
0:07:00 And it makes no difference in my life.
0:07:04 So my number went up a hundredfold.
0:07:06 When I hit, finally did hit that number,
0:07:10 I have consciously tried to have a practice of saying,
0:07:13 okay, get off the hamster wheel.
0:07:15 Money is the ink in your pen.
0:07:16 It can write new chapters.
0:07:18 It can make certain chapters burn brighter,
0:07:20 but it’s not who you are.
0:07:21 What is your purpose?
0:07:23 Like, what are you trying to achieve here?
0:07:24 Because my whole life,
0:07:27 my only purpose was economic security.
0:07:29 My mom got very sick, and we didn’t have money.
0:07:31 And when I had kids, as I told you,
0:07:33 I wasn’t in the place I wanted to be.
0:07:35 So it is just hardwired into me.
0:07:37 And it’s something I’ve always had.
0:07:40 I’ve never been able to fully snap out of it.
0:07:42 But I do think what Morgan’s talking about,
0:07:43 evaluate your relationships,
0:07:46 evaluate your health.
0:07:51 And once you have a point where you know you can survive an economic shock,
0:07:52 take your kids on a vacation,
0:07:54 have health care,
0:07:55 you know, they say that that is around,
0:07:57 they used to say that was $75,000 a year.
0:07:58 I think that’s bullshit.
0:08:02 I don’t think anyone can be economically stress-free at $75,000.
0:08:04 I think that’s more like $200,000 or $300,000 a year.
0:08:09 And I don’t know if you’ve read any Daniel Kahneman,
0:08:11 but his research was,
0:08:13 once you get to that certain point,
0:08:15 incremental money is no happiness.
0:08:17 Which says to me,
0:08:18 and I want to put this to you,
0:08:19 this goes back to public policy.
0:08:20 I don’t,
0:08:21 I believe that.
0:08:22 So for me,
0:08:23 pick a big number,
0:08:25 $2,000, $3 million a year.
0:08:28 I don’t understand why we wouldn’t have tax rates of 60,
0:08:29 70 or 80%
0:08:31 because it’s not making anyone any happier.
0:08:34 Whereas if you can redistribute that money to universal,
0:08:35 you know,
0:08:36 child care
0:08:38 or health care subsidies
0:08:39 or schools
0:08:40 or after school programs,
0:08:42 things that really make a difference in people’s lives.
0:08:44 And it’s not going to make any difference
0:08:46 in uber-wealthy households
0:08:47 if they have,
0:08:48 if they make $4 million a year
0:08:49 instead of $4.5 million.
0:08:51 Why wouldn’t we have
0:08:54 incredibly aggressive incremental tax rates
0:08:55 above a certain amount?
0:08:57 I realize this is a bit of an off-ramp here,
0:08:57 a diversion,
0:08:59 but I’m just curious to get your thoughts on this, Morgan.
0:09:01 Yeah, I mean,
0:09:03 that’s effectively what we did in the 1950s.
0:09:05 And in some aspects,
0:09:06 it did work out.
0:09:06 In many aspects,
0:09:07 it didn’t.
0:09:08 One little quirk on this
0:09:09 that I think is important
0:09:10 is what some of the research shows
0:09:11 is that
0:09:12 if you are already
0:09:15 a sad, depressed, glum person,
0:09:17 the evidence is that
0:09:17 earning more money.
0:09:18 It’s not going to change that.
0:09:19 It’s not going to change.
0:09:20 It’s not going to do anything for you.
0:09:21 And you can,
0:09:22 you can,
0:09:24 you can put a face on that
0:09:25 and when,
0:09:26 and really imagine someone
0:09:27 who is earning tons of money,
0:09:29 their income is doubling every year,
0:09:30 they’re promoted,
0:09:31 they get huge bonuses,
0:09:32 they’re making millions of dollars a year,
0:09:34 but their marriage is shot.
0:09:35 Their kids don’t talk to them.
0:09:36 They’re overweight.
0:09:37 They smoke.
0:09:37 They don’t sleep at night.
0:09:38 They have a dirty conscience.
0:09:39 Like, go on down the list.
0:09:41 Of course that person’s not happy.
0:09:42 But if you are starting out
0:09:44 as a happy,
0:09:45 content,
0:09:46 smiling person,
0:09:47 then earn,
0:09:48 then earning more money
0:09:49 is like an amazing thing.
0:09:50 Like it leverages who you are
0:09:51 in either direction.
0:09:53 And that’s what’s really important.
0:09:54 But it’s too easy
0:09:55 to tell yourself,
0:09:57 if only I earn twice as much money,
0:09:58 then these problems would go away.
0:09:59 If only I earn more money,
0:10:01 then my spouse would love me more.
0:10:02 My kids would talk to me more.
0:10:02 I would be in better health.
0:10:04 I think around the edges
0:10:05 that actually can be true
0:10:06 to some extent,
0:10:08 but dramatically less than
0:10:09 we assume that it will be.
0:10:11 Let’s go on to question two.
0:10:13 Question number two comes from user
0:10:15 to put it frankly on Reddit.
0:10:15 They say,
0:10:17 Is it okay to hold
0:10:18 a higher cash balance,
0:10:19 for example,
0:10:21 35% of total portfolio,
0:10:22 at 4% yield
0:10:23 just to help me sleep at night?
0:10:24 I’m 31 years old,
0:10:26 but I worry with all the layoffs
0:10:27 in the tech scene,
0:10:27 I may be unemployed
0:10:28 for one to two years
0:10:30 and want to have that cash
0:10:31 for peace of mind,
0:10:31 even though I should
0:10:32 probably invest it.
0:10:32 Morgan?
0:10:34 Not only is it okay,
0:10:35 it’s what I do.
0:10:38 And I’m not recommending necessarily
0:10:39 that everybody does that,
0:10:41 but the biggest risk
0:10:42 in your personal life
0:10:43 and throughout the economy
0:10:45 are things that you are not
0:10:46 talking about
0:10:47 and nobody sees coming.
0:10:49 The biggest economic stories
0:10:50 in the last 25 years
0:10:50 were 9-11,
0:10:52 Lehman Brothers going bankrupt,
0:10:52 and COVID.
0:10:54 And the common denominator
0:10:55 of all three of those
0:10:56 is nobody saw them coming
0:10:57 until the moment
0:10:57 that they happened.
0:10:59 And same with Pearl Harbor,
0:11:00 same with like,
0:11:01 all the big events
0:11:02 are the ones that are unforeseeable.
0:11:03 And in your personal life,
0:11:04 your individual life,
0:11:05 nobody gets married
0:11:06 thinking they’re going
0:11:07 to be divorced.
0:11:08 No 25-year-old thinks
0:11:09 they’re going to die of cancer
0:11:09 in the next 10 years.
0:11:10 Go on down that list.
0:11:12 The biggest risk
0:11:13 in your personal life
0:11:14 are things that you are
0:11:15 not thinking about today.
0:11:16 Because of that,
0:11:17 the only thing that you can
0:11:18 really do financially
0:11:20 to guard yourself
0:11:20 and protect yourself
0:11:21 in that world
0:11:22 is have a level of savings
0:11:24 that seems like it’s too much.
0:11:25 Like if you are only saving
0:11:26 for the events
0:11:27 that you can foresee,
0:11:28 then by definition,
0:11:28 you’re not prepared
0:11:29 for the surprise.
0:11:30 And the surprise
0:11:31 is always the biggest risk.
0:11:34 And so when I save money
0:11:35 or if a financial advisor
0:11:36 were to look at my asset allocation,
0:11:37 they might say,
0:11:38 what are you saving for?
0:11:39 You saving for a house?
0:11:40 You saving for a new car?
0:11:42 And my answer would always be like,
0:11:43 no, I’m saving for a world
0:11:45 in which the biggest risk
0:11:46 is always what I don’t see coming.
0:11:47 I have no idea
0:11:49 what the next COVID is going to be,
0:11:51 what the next 9-11 is going to be.
0:11:54 And if I only have enough cash
0:11:54 for the risks
0:11:56 that I can foresee in front of me,
0:11:57 I’m going to be caught off guard.
0:11:59 And so the other thing about that
0:12:00 is that if you have
0:12:01 a higher cash balance,
0:12:03 it gives you a fighting chance
0:12:05 to keep invested
0:12:06 in the stocks that you own.
0:12:08 The only thing that’s going to matter
0:12:09 for the investments that you own
0:12:10 over the course of your life
0:12:11 is whether you can remain invested
0:12:12 when shit gets real,
0:12:13 when shit hits the fan.
0:12:15 That’s all that matters.
0:12:17 And if having 35% cash
0:12:18 means that when the stock market
0:12:19 falls 50%,
0:12:20 you’re able to leave it alone
0:12:22 because it’s not that big a deal
0:12:23 and you have this cash,
0:12:24 this liquid savings,
0:12:26 then actually the return on that cash
0:12:28 is much, much higher
0:12:29 than the 3% you’re getting
0:12:30 in your savings account.
0:12:32 If it prevents you from selling
0:12:34 and having this unbelievable
0:12:35 financial scar
0:12:36 from dumping your stocks
0:12:37 at the bottom,
0:12:38 then the actual return,
0:12:39 the implied return,
0:12:40 it’s a hidden return
0:12:41 that you earned on your cash
0:12:43 might be 10% or 20%.
0:12:47 And so that hidden return on cash
0:12:49 from letting you sleep at night,
0:12:50 from being there when you need it,
0:12:51 and preventing you
0:12:52 from dumping your stocks
0:12:54 at the worst possible time
0:12:54 can be enormous.
0:12:56 Yeah, I love that.
0:12:59 Like, money helps you
0:13:00 do wonderful things,
0:13:01 but money isn’t just about
0:13:02 the additional things
0:13:02 it gets you.
0:13:04 It’s about freeing you
0:13:06 from an absence of things,
0:13:07 an absence of stress
0:13:08 that you can’t afford healthcare.
0:13:10 It’s about taking things away.
0:13:11 It’s about knowing
0:13:13 that if someone in your life,
0:13:13 God forbid,
0:13:14 is diagnosed with lung cancer,
0:13:16 it doesn’t mean
0:13:16 you’re going to go bankrupt.
0:13:19 So it removes certain stressors.
0:13:20 And everybody,
0:13:21 at the end of the day,
0:13:22 has a different level
0:13:25 of emotional susceptibility
0:13:26 to stress.
0:13:28 Now, theoretically,
0:13:29 people will say
0:13:30 always be invested in the market,
0:13:31 just diversify,
0:13:32 that that’s usually the way to go.
0:13:34 There’s also people that say
0:13:35 always have six months
0:13:37 of kind of emergency funding.
0:13:39 Because to your point,
0:13:39 Morgan,
0:13:41 what you never want to be,
0:13:42 well, one,
0:13:43 you don’t ever want to be stressed,
0:13:44 but two,
0:13:45 you never want to be
0:13:46 a forced seller.
0:13:48 Because if you’re
0:13:49 a forced seller,
0:13:50 I can guarantee you,
0:13:52 basically,
0:13:53 when you get divorced,
0:13:54 you’re a forced seller.
0:13:55 And that is,
0:13:56 you’ve got to sell a house,
0:13:57 you’ve got to sell stocks,
0:13:58 you’ve got to divide stuff.
0:14:00 And I can guarantee you,
0:14:01 I don’t care when you get divorced,
0:14:02 it will be at exactly
0:14:03 the wrong moment
0:14:04 for the assets you have.
0:14:07 The forced seller,
0:14:09 if you’re a forced seller,
0:14:09 it usually means
0:14:10 other people are forced sellers
0:14:13 and buyers are swooping in
0:14:13 with,
0:14:14 they smell fear,
0:14:15 they’re swooping in
0:14:15 with ridiculous
0:14:16 below market offers.
0:14:18 So the great financial recession
0:14:19 where,
0:14:19 you know,
0:14:20 the markets got cut
0:14:21 in half or more,
0:14:23 they ripped back,
0:14:23 what,
0:14:24 in 14 months?
0:14:25 So you want to talk
0:14:26 about emotional stress.
0:14:28 If you had a burn
0:14:29 and not enough savings
0:14:30 to cover your burn
0:14:31 and you were a forced seller
0:14:32 of stocks
0:14:34 and then you saw them
0:14:35 rip back,
0:14:37 imagine the anxiety
0:14:38 you registered then.
0:14:39 So I,
0:14:41 I 100% agree with Morgan,
0:14:42 you don’t want to be
0:14:42 a forced seller.
0:14:44 A lot of it
0:14:44 is kind of up to you
0:14:45 around where you get
0:14:46 emotional comfort.
0:14:48 What I do is
0:14:50 I don’t have 35% in cash.
0:14:52 What I have tried to do
0:14:53 was make,
0:14:54 is make myself
0:14:56 somewhat bulletproof
0:14:57 by a massive amount
0:14:58 of diversification.
0:14:58 That is,
0:15:00 I don’t have 35% in cash.
0:15:01 What I have is
0:15:02 no more,
0:15:03 other than real estate
0:15:04 where I’m overinvested,
0:15:05 but outside of that,
0:15:06 I never have more than
0:15:07 3 or 4% of my net worth
0:15:08 in any one thing.
0:15:10 Because now,
0:15:11 it’s,
0:15:12 everything’s sort of
0:15:13 correlated now,
0:15:14 but it’s unlikely,
0:15:15 you know,
0:15:16 it’s unlikely,
0:15:17 I’m an investor
0:15:18 in a Chinese fast fashion
0:15:19 company,
0:15:21 in Japanese bonds,
0:15:22 and in a European
0:15:23 aerospace company,
0:15:24 and in tech stocks.
0:15:25 It’s unlikely
0:15:26 they’re all going to
0:15:27 go down together.
0:15:27 They might.
0:15:28 I also own some
0:15:29 Bitcoin,
0:15:30 which I never thought
0:15:30 I would own.
0:15:32 I also own some
0:15:34 pound sterling
0:15:35 in case the dollar
0:15:35 crashes.
0:15:37 because to be clear,
0:15:38 cash in the U.S. dollar
0:15:39 right now
0:15:40 is riskier
0:15:40 than it’s ever been.
0:15:41 It still,
0:15:43 it itself
0:15:44 is a decision.
0:15:45 It’s an investment decision.
0:15:46 So,
0:15:47 you know,
0:15:48 we have a
0:15:50 traditional sort of
0:15:50 comfort,
0:15:51 false cold comfort,
0:15:52 that if I have
0:15:54 savings in dollars,
0:15:55 I’m fine.
0:15:56 Well,
0:15:57 there’s a scenario
0:15:59 where those dollars
0:16:00 are not worth
0:16:01 nearly as much.
0:16:02 so I get comfort
0:16:03 and everyone has to
0:16:04 find their own
0:16:05 levels of comfort
0:16:05 and there’s
0:16:06 best practices,
0:16:08 but I get comfort,
0:16:09 the same comfort
0:16:10 that,
0:16:11 to put it frankly,
0:16:12 on Reddit gets,
0:16:13 I get that comfort
0:16:14 from massive
0:16:15 diversification.
0:16:17 Any final thoughts
0:16:17 here, Morgan?
0:16:18 No,
0:16:19 I think that’s good.
0:16:19 I mean,
0:16:20 all the stocks
0:16:21 that I own
0:16:21 is basically
0:16:22 mostly the Vanguard
0:16:23 Total Stock Market Index.
0:16:25 It’s 6,000 companies
0:16:26 that’s owned in there.
0:16:26 You’re right that
0:16:28 usually in the
0:16:29 heat of a crisis,
0:16:30 most correlations
0:16:30 go to one.
0:16:31 It doesn’t matter
0:16:32 whether you own
0:16:32 small caps,
0:16:33 large caps,
0:16:33 tax,
0:16:34 banking,
0:16:35 it doesn’t matter.
0:16:37 They’re all going down
0:16:38 indiscriminately.
0:16:39 That tends to be the case.
0:16:42 And so you can still
0:16:43 kind of fool yourself
0:16:44 even with big diversification,
0:16:45 particularly for short
0:16:46 periods of time
0:16:46 when everyone’s panicking.
0:16:48 But to that point,
0:16:49 I love this definition
0:16:50 from Napoleon.
0:16:50 He said,
0:16:51 the military genius
0:16:52 is the man
0:16:54 who can do the average thing
0:16:55 when everyone else
0:16:56 is losing his mind.
0:16:57 And I think it’s the exact same
0:16:58 in investing and finance.
0:17:00 If you can merely be average
0:17:01 when everyone else
0:17:01 is panicking,
0:17:03 you are top 1%.
0:17:05 And so it’s less too
0:17:07 about your financial diversification
0:17:08 and more about the behaviors
0:17:09 that you can maintain
0:17:11 once or twice per decade
0:17:11 when everyone’s losing
0:17:12 their mind.
0:17:14 I love that.
0:17:15 We’ll be right back
0:17:16 after a quick break.
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0:18:32 We say this all the time
0:18:32 on our show
0:18:33 but it bears repeating.
0:18:34 Running a small business
0:18:36 isn’t just a full-time job,
0:18:37 it’s about a dozen
0:18:37 full-time jobs
0:18:38 that you rarely
0:18:39 if ever
0:18:40 get to clock out of
0:18:41 at least until
0:18:42 you get to the point
0:18:42 where you can start
0:18:43 hiring the dream team
0:18:44 and if you’ve made it
0:18:44 that far
0:18:45 you already know
0:18:46 there’s no time
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0:19:05 LinkedIn says
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0:19:09 it’s all these
0:19:09 little things
0:19:10 that let you find
0:19:11 help fast
0:19:12 without compromising
0:19:13 on quality
0:19:13 which add up
0:19:14 to you finally
0:19:15 having extra time
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0:20:43 welcome back
0:20:45 onto our final question
0:20:46 user bowtender
0:20:47 OC says
0:20:49 a big fan of Morgan
0:20:50 I’d love to hear
0:20:50 some detailed
0:20:51 personal spending
0:20:52 from him
0:20:52 he’s discussed
0:20:53 his approach
0:20:54 and philosophy
0:20:54 but I’m curious
0:20:55 about specifics
0:20:56 like where does he skimp
0:20:57 and where does he splurge
0:20:59 is he financially
0:20:59 independent
0:21:00 does he put money
0:21:01 in plans for his
0:21:02 kids future education
0:21:04 private or public schools
0:21:05 does he fly first class
0:21:06 or private ever
0:21:07 are his friends
0:21:08 normal or wealthy
0:21:09 and what about you Scott
0:21:12 I could just
0:21:12 I could just share
0:21:12 my screen
0:21:13 and pull up my
0:21:14 my credit card statement
0:21:15 or something
0:21:15 I don’t know
0:21:17 no like look
0:21:18 my wife and I
0:21:18 have been together
0:21:19 since we were
0:21:20 very young
0:21:20 so we became
0:21:21 adults together
0:21:22 and when we met
0:21:22 we didn’t have any money
0:21:23 so we’ve gone
0:21:24 through this together
0:21:24 which has been
0:21:25 a good
0:21:26 a good experience
0:21:27 and my
0:21:27 our financial
0:21:28 change situation
0:21:29 changed very
0:21:30 dramatically
0:21:30 in the last
0:21:31 five years
0:21:32 when we had
0:21:32 two kids
0:21:32 and we’re
0:21:33 and we had
0:21:33 been already
0:21:34 been married
0:21:35 for for 10 years
0:21:36 as a big saver
0:21:37 and I still am
0:21:38 a very big saver
0:21:39 I don’t view it
0:21:40 as saving money
0:21:40 I view it
0:21:41 as purchasing
0:21:41 independence
0:21:42 and so
0:21:43 what is the
0:21:43 biggest expense
0:21:44 that I have
0:21:45 it’s independence
0:21:46 and that feels
0:21:46 like I’m cheating
0:21:47 on that question
0:21:48 I get it
0:21:48 but it’s the most
0:21:49 valuable thing
0:21:49 in the world
0:21:50 to me
0:21:50 to wake up
0:21:50 every morning
0:21:51 and be like
0:21:51 I can do
0:21:51 I can do
0:21:52 whatever I want
0:21:52 I can do
0:21:53 whatever the heck
0:21:53 I want today
0:21:55 and that is
0:21:56 that’s my prized
0:21:57 possession by far
0:21:58 people have
0:21:59 different personalities
0:21:59 on that
0:22:00 but to me
0:22:00 nothing has ever
0:22:01 meant more
0:22:02 than that
0:22:03 we do spend
0:22:04 on actually
0:22:05 spending stuff
0:22:06 quite a bit more
0:22:06 than we did
0:22:07 five years ago
0:22:08 we bought a new
0:22:08 house a year ago
0:22:09 we’ve got to
0:22:10 take awesome trips
0:22:11 the truth is
0:22:12 we buy anything
0:22:12 we want
0:22:13 there’s no budget
0:22:14 the truth too
0:22:15 is that that was
0:22:16 true 15 years ago
0:22:16 when we made
0:22:18 99% less money
0:22:19 and so
0:22:20 it’s always kind
0:22:21 of been like that
0:22:22 what’s important
0:22:22 to me
0:22:23 always been important
0:22:24 but very important
0:22:25 now that we make
0:22:25 a little bit more money
0:22:26 is that I’m not
0:22:28 beholden to the money
0:22:28 that the money
0:22:29 is not commanding
0:22:30 my personality
0:22:31 and that
0:22:32 I don’t say
0:22:33 oh because we make
0:22:33 this much money
0:22:35 we have to drive
0:22:35 this car
0:22:36 and have to
0:22:37 I have to own
0:22:37 this watch
0:22:38 and I have to
0:22:38 dress this way
0:22:39 even if I don’t
0:22:39 want to
0:22:40 that is when
0:22:41 you are just
0:22:41 a victim
0:22:42 you’re beholden
0:22:42 to what money
0:22:43 is telling you
0:22:43 to do
0:22:44 and so I want
0:22:44 to use it
0:22:45 as a tool
0:22:46 to become
0:22:47 the best version
0:22:47 of myself
0:22:48 but I don’t want
0:22:49 it to define
0:22:49 who I am
0:22:51 and so we travel
0:22:51 well
0:22:52 we eat well
0:22:54 I love hanging out
0:22:54 with my friends
0:22:55 I have one of my
0:22:56 best friends
0:22:56 in California
0:22:57 I’ve known him
0:22:58 for a quarter
0:22:58 of a century
0:22:59 he’s an awesome guy
0:23:00 I love paying
0:23:01 for his first class
0:23:02 ticket to fly up
0:23:02 and see me
0:23:03 and then we go out
0:23:04 to fancy restaurants
0:23:05 and nothing makes me
0:23:06 happier than doing
0:23:06 that for him
0:23:07 it’s the coolest
0:23:08 thing in the world
0:23:10 and so I want
0:23:10 to use money
0:23:11 as a tool
0:23:11 to do things
0:23:12 like that
0:23:13 rather than
0:23:14 being beholden
0:23:15 to what I’m
0:23:15 supposed to be
0:23:16 because I earn
0:23:17 X dollars per year
0:23:19 yeah we’re
0:23:19 of the same
0:23:20 mind here
0:23:21 I’m older
0:23:21 than you
0:23:23 how old
0:23:23 are you Morgan
0:23:24 41
0:23:25 so you’re way
0:23:26 ahead of where
0:23:26 I was
0:23:27 at your age
0:23:27 I’m 60
0:23:29 I got very lucky
0:23:29 there’s nothing
0:23:30 like 7 trillion
0:23:31 dollars in stimulus
0:23:32 pumped into
0:23:33 pumped into
0:23:34 the market
0:23:35 to keep
0:23:36 people who already
0:23:36 have assets
0:23:37 wealthy
0:23:38 and so I’ve
0:23:38 basically
0:23:40 vis-a-vis
0:23:40 our government
0:23:41 been using
0:23:42 the next generation’s
0:23:43 credit card
0:23:44 to see
0:23:45 my assets
0:23:46 which I were
0:23:47 able to acquire
0:23:47 I’m not humble
0:23:48 I’m a fucking
0:23:49 monster
0:23:49 I’m talented
0:23:50 I work hard
0:23:52 but it’s better
0:23:52 to be lucky
0:23:53 than good
0:23:54 and since 2008
0:23:55 my net worth
0:23:56 has absolutely
0:23:56 exploded
0:23:58 because what do
0:23:58 you know
0:23:58 we’ve been in
0:23:59 the biggest bull
0:24:00 market in the
0:24:00 history of any
0:24:01 economy anywhere
0:24:02 for 17 years
0:24:05 and I’m on
0:24:06 the back nine
0:24:06 and that is
0:24:08 I would say
0:24:08 the difference
0:24:09 between the U.S.
0:24:09 and Europe
0:24:10 is the U.S.
0:24:10 is the best place
0:24:11 to make money
0:24:12 Europe’s the best
0:24:13 place to spend it
0:24:14 I’m in Europe
0:24:15 for a reason
0:24:15 I’m in the part
0:24:16 of my life
0:24:16 where I’ve decided
0:24:17 I want to spend
0:24:17 a lot of money
0:24:19 I think in a capitalist
0:24:19 society
0:24:20 I can’t stand it
0:24:20 when people don’t
0:24:21 know how to spend
0:24:21 their money
0:24:22 I know a lot of people
0:24:23 and you just wrote
0:24:23 a book on this
0:24:24 who are really
0:24:25 really wealthy
0:24:26 and they don’t
0:24:26 they have
0:24:27 they have like
0:24:28 tacky homes
0:24:28 and they don’t
0:24:30 take nice vacations
0:24:30 and they worry
0:24:31 about money
0:24:31 I’m like
0:24:32 what’s
0:24:34 I’m of the mind
0:24:34 you don’t really
0:24:35 own money
0:24:35 you rent it
0:24:37 but if you rent
0:24:37 it out
0:24:38 you can do
0:24:38 just amazing
0:24:39 shit with it
0:24:40 and so
0:24:41 when I kind
0:24:41 of hit
0:24:42 my number
0:24:43 which is
0:24:43 and this is
0:24:44 a story
0:24:45 of extreme
0:24:45 privilege
0:24:46 very lucky
0:24:47 and very talented
0:24:49 and born
0:24:49 at the right
0:24:49 place
0:24:50 at the right
0:24:50 time
0:24:50 with the right
0:24:51 skin color
0:24:51 and the right
0:24:52 outdoor plumbing
0:24:53 disproportionate
0:24:53 advantage
0:24:54 has accreted in me
0:24:55 I want to do
0:24:55 my land
0:24:56 acknowledgement
0:24:58 but I spend
0:24:59 a shit ton
0:24:59 of money
0:25:03 and I spend
0:25:04 probably 50%
0:25:05 of it on what
0:25:05 I’ll call
0:25:06 experiences
0:25:08 and that is
0:25:09 I do amazing
0:25:11 amazing vacations
0:25:12 with friends
0:25:13 and family
0:25:14 and plan them
0:25:15 out
0:25:17 and live
0:25:17 in beautiful
0:25:18 homes
0:25:19 and I just
0:25:20 don’t let
0:25:20 I love what you
0:25:21 said about your
0:25:21 friend
0:25:22 I do the same
0:25:22 thing
0:25:24 what I’ve
0:25:24 done
0:25:25 what’s
0:25:25 changed
0:25:26 in the last
0:25:26 10 years
0:25:27 for me
0:25:28 is I don’t
0:25:28 think of
0:25:28 it as
0:25:29 philanthropy
0:25:29 I think
0:25:29 of it as
0:25:29 consumption
0:25:30 every year
0:25:30 I look at
0:25:31 how much
0:25:31 money I
0:25:31 spent
0:25:32 and I try
0:25:32 and match
0:25:33 it and give
0:25:33 it away
0:25:34 and I don’t
0:25:35 do it out
0:25:35 of guilt
0:25:35 I do it
0:25:36 because it
0:25:36 makes me feel
0:25:37 really masculine
0:25:38 it makes me
0:25:38 feel very
0:25:38 American
0:25:40 and I find
0:25:41 these amazing
0:25:43 non-profits
0:25:44 mostly in
0:25:45 public education
0:25:46 and in
0:25:47 teen suicide
0:25:47 prevention
0:25:48 that I just
0:25:48 think are
0:25:49 outstanding
0:25:50 organizations
0:25:50 and I can
0:25:51 have a real
0:25:52 impact
0:25:53 you know
0:25:54 I’m not a
0:25:54 billionaire
0:25:55 but I give
0:25:55 millions away
0:25:56 and I just
0:25:58 it’s one of
0:25:58 the most
0:26:01 rewarding things
0:26:01 that I do
0:26:02 and by the way
0:26:02 I didn’t give
0:26:03 a dime away
0:26:03 until I was
0:26:04 like 45
0:26:05 I’m not
0:26:06 I can’t
0:26:08 pretend to be
0:26:09 a philanthropic
0:26:09 person
0:26:10 I wasn’t born
0:26:10 that way
0:26:11 I find it
0:26:12 just very rewarding
0:26:12 and a lot of
0:26:13 fun now
0:26:15 but I mean
0:26:16 the learning
0:26:16 is the following
0:26:18 there’s an art
0:26:19 to spending money
0:26:20 I imagine
0:26:20 you feel this way
0:26:21 one of the most
0:26:22 rewarding things
0:26:22 in my life
0:26:23 is that when
0:26:24 I met my
0:26:24 partner
0:26:24 we didn’t
0:26:25 have any
0:26:25 money
0:26:26 she was just
0:26:26 out of graduate
0:26:27 school
0:26:27 all she had
0:26:28 was student
0:26:28 debt
0:26:29 and now we’re
0:26:30 wealthy
0:26:30 and having
0:26:31 built that
0:26:32 together
0:26:32 and getting
0:26:33 to spend
0:26:34 it and enjoy
0:26:34 it together
0:26:35 is so
0:26:36 rewarding
0:26:37 it’s so much
0:26:37 fun
0:26:39 we will be
0:26:40 somewhere
0:26:40 extraordinarily
0:26:41 beautiful
0:26:43 or get to
0:26:44 give money
0:26:44 away
0:26:45 and we can
0:26:45 just look
0:26:46 at each
0:26:46 other
0:26:46 and just
0:26:47 high-five
0:26:47 each
0:26:48 other
0:26:48 that
0:26:48 this
0:26:49 worked
0:26:49 out
0:26:49 and we
0:26:50 built
0:26:50 this
0:26:50 together
0:26:51 it’s so
0:26:53 rewarding
0:26:53 that
0:26:55 it’s like
0:26:55 I’ve always
0:26:56 said
0:26:56 it’s not
0:26:57 having the
0:26:58 money’s great
0:26:58 but it was
0:26:59 earning it
0:26:59 that was
0:26:59 fun
0:27:00 and what
0:27:00 was
0:27:01 remarkable
0:27:02 was earning
0:27:02 and building
0:27:03 it with
0:27:03 a partner
0:27:04 that was
0:27:04 just so
0:27:06 so much
0:27:07 fun
0:27:07 any closing
0:27:07 thoughts
0:27:08 here Morgan
0:27:09 I mean
0:27:10 what you’re
0:27:10 really getting
0:27:10 at is what
0:27:11 you really
0:27:11 value right
0:27:11 now
0:27:12 and what
0:27:12 compounded
0:27:12 over time
0:27:13 are those
0:27:13 experiences
0:27:14 in those
0:27:14 memories
0:27:16 and you
0:27:16 know
0:27:16 the
0:27:17 experience
0:27:17 of doing
0:27:17 it
0:27:17 together
0:27:18 and so
0:27:18 it’s
0:27:19 less
0:27:19 there’s
0:27:19 a great
0:27:20 Will Smith
0:27:20 quote
0:27:21 about fame
0:27:21 where he
0:27:21 said
0:27:22 becoming
0:27:23 famous
0:27:23 is the
0:27:23 most
0:27:24 amazing
0:27:24 feeling
0:27:24 in the
0:27:25 world
0:27:26 being
0:27:26 famous
0:27:27 is
0:27:27 merely
0:27:27 okay
0:27:28 and
0:27:29 losing
0:27:29 fame
0:27:30 is one
0:27:30 of life’s
0:27:30 great
0:27:31 tragedies
0:27:32 and I
0:27:32 think
0:27:32 inherent
0:27:33 in that
0:27:33 is like
0:27:33 what you
0:27:34 want
0:27:34 is the
0:27:35 growth
0:27:35 that’s
0:27:35 what
0:27:36 feels
0:27:36 good
0:27:36 and I
0:27:37 think
0:27:37 for a
0:27:37 lot
0:27:37 of
0:27:37 people
0:27:37 that’s
0:27:37 true
0:27:38 for
0:27:38 money
0:27:38 you
0:27:38 don’t
0:27:39 actually
0:27:39 want
0:27:39 to
0:27:39 be
0:27:40 rich
0:27:40 what
0:27:41 you
0:27:41 want
0:27:41 is
0:27:41 to
0:27:42 partake
0:27:42 in
0:27:42 the
0:27:43 process
0:27:43 of
0:27:43 becoming
0:27:44 rich
0:27:44 that’s
0:27:44 what
0:27:45 feels
0:27:45 great
0:27:45 and if
0:27:45 you’re
0:27:46 doing
0:27:46 that
0:27:46 with
0:27:47 somebody
0:27:47 else
0:27:47 along
0:27:48 the way
0:27:48 along
0:27:48 that
0:27:48 journey
0:27:49 100
0:27:49 times
0:27:49 better
0:27:51 I love
0:27:51 that
0:27:51 Morgan
0:27:52 Housel
0:27:52 is the
0:27:52 best
0:27:53 selling
0:27:53 author
0:27:53 of
0:27:53 the
0:27:53 psychology
0:27:54 of
0:27:54 money
0:27:54 and
0:27:54 a
0:27:55 partner
0:27:55 at
0:27:55 the
0:27:56 collaborative
0:27:56 fund
0:27:57 market
0:27:57 watch
0:27:57 named
0:27:57 him
0:27:58 one
0:27:58 of
0:27:58 the
0:27:58 50
0:27:58 most
0:27:59 influential
0:27:59 people
0:27:59 in
0:28:00 markets
0:28:00 his
0:28:00 new
0:28:00 book
0:28:00 the
0:28:01 art
0:28:01 of
0:28:01 spending
0:28:01 money
0:28:01 is
0:28:02 out
0:28:02 now
0:28:02 I
0:28:03 absolutely
0:28:03 love
0:28:04 Morgan
0:28:04 and
0:28:04 his
0:28:05 stuff
0:28:05 I
0:28:06 can
0:28:06 find
0:28:06 a lot
0:28:06 of
0:28:06 his
0:28:07 financial
0:28:07 advice
0:28:07 in
0:28:08 a lot
0:28:08 of
0:28:08 places
0:28:08 what
0:28:09 he’s
0:28:09 able
0:28:09 to
0:28:09 do
0:28:10 is
0:28:10 connected
0:28:10 to
0:28:11 humanity
0:28:11 and
0:28:12 happiness
0:28:12 that’s
0:28:12 his
0:28:13 superpower
0:28:14 is
0:28:14 you
0:28:14 just
0:28:14 get
0:28:15 the
0:28:15 sense
0:28:15 this
0:28:15 guy
0:28:18 knows
0:28:19 how
0:28:19 to
0:28:19 take
0:28:20 these
0:28:20 principles
0:28:21 and
0:28:21 once
0:28:21 you
0:28:21 get
0:28:22 there
0:28:22 enjoy
0:28:23 it
0:28:23 and
0:28:23 be
0:28:24 happy
0:28:24 and
0:28:24 have
0:28:24 really
0:28:25 strong
0:28:25 connective
0:28:26 tissue
0:28:26 with
0:28:26 yourself
0:28:27 your
0:28:27 health
0:28:28 your
0:28:28 relationships
0:28:29 it’s
0:28:29 as if
0:28:30 I
0:28:31 think
0:28:31 of you
0:28:32 more
0:28:32 as
0:28:32 a
0:28:33 psychologist
0:28:35 than
0:28:35 a
0:28:35 financial
0:28:36 person
0:28:36 but
0:28:36 you’ve
0:28:36 really
0:28:36 been
0:28:37 able
0:28:37 to
0:28:37 blend
0:28:37 the
0:28:37 two
0:28:38 and
0:28:39 you
0:28:39 have
0:28:39 the
0:28:39 best
0:28:40 quotes
0:28:40 ever
0:28:41 the
0:28:41 one
0:28:41 I’m
0:28:41 going
0:28:41 to
0:28:42 take
0:28:42 away
0:28:42 from
0:28:42 this
0:28:42 one
0:28:43 is
0:28:43 that
0:28:43 the
0:28:43 military
0:28:44 genius
0:28:44 is
0:28:44 the
0:28:44 person
0:28:44 that
0:28:44 can
0:28:45 just
0:28:45 do
0:28:46 something
0:28:46 at
0:28:46 average
0:28:47 while
0:28:47 everyone
0:28:47 else
0:28:47 around
0:28:48 them
0:28:48 loses
0:28:48 their
0:28:48 minds
0:28:49 anyways
0:28:49 Morgan
0:28:49 very much
0:28:50 enjoyed
0:28:50 this
0:28:50 thanks
0:28:50 for
0:28:51 being
0:28:51 with
0:28:51 us
0:28:51 today
0:28:52 thanks
0:28:52 Scott
0:28:53 fun
0:28:53 as
0:28:53 always
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0:00:41 This thought-provoking sequel from Robert J. Sawyer takes listeners on a captivating sci-fi journey.
0:00:47 A mind-bending must-listen that asks, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?
0:00:53 The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible.
0:01:02 Support for today’s show comes from Darktrace.
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0:02:02 Welcome to Prop G on Money, a special series where we’re joined by Morgan Housel,
0:02:06 best-selling author of The Psychology of Money, along with his latest, The Art of Spending Money.
0:02:12 This is the second and final episode where we’re taking your questions on all things money, saving, spending, and everything in between.
0:02:18 Anyways, if you’d like to submit a question for next time, you can send a voice recording to officehoursofpropgmedia.com.
0:02:20 Again, that’s officehoursofpropgmedia.com.
0:02:23 Or post your question on the Scott Galloway subreddit.
0:02:26 Morgan, you ready to chop some wood here?
0:02:27 Let’s do it.
0:02:31 Our first question comes from user DeliciousCoffee993 on Reddit.
0:02:32 They say,
0:02:39 At what liquid net worth should people consider just slowing down and enjoy time over continuing to build via paychecks?
0:02:44 Unless you start your own business, it is unlikely most people will hit Scott’s level of wealth.
0:02:46 So at what point should people consider it enough?
0:02:47 Or put another way,
0:02:52 at what point is another $1 million just not worth the loss of time with kids, parents, etc?
0:02:57 The difficulty of this question is how easy it is to tell yourself,
0:03:00 once I have $1 million, that will feel like it’s enough.
0:03:02 Or $5 million, or $10 million, whatever it might be.
0:03:04 And you genuinely tell yourself that.
0:03:05 You genuinely believe it.
0:03:08 That once you have that much, then you won’t feel any desire for more.
0:03:11 And if you are like 99.9% of people,
0:03:14 if you’re fortunate enough to get to $1 million, $5 million, $10 million, whatever it is,
0:03:17 then the right amount is going to be roughly double that.
0:03:19 There’s so much evidence from the research that shows that
0:03:21 no matter how much money you have or how much money you earn,
0:03:25 the amount that you think is enough is double of what you have right now.
0:03:28 People who have $100 say the right amount is $200.
0:03:31 People who have $100 million say the right amount is $200 million.
0:03:32 It tends to be that.
0:03:36 It’s always just this perpetual moving of the goalpost to do that.
0:03:43 Now, there is a thing where if you are satisfied with your relationships,
0:03:45 you’re satisfied with the work that you do,
0:03:47 you have a good marriage,
0:03:48 your kids admire you,
0:03:52 the city and the town that you live in really admires you,
0:03:54 then your desire to say,
0:03:56 I need so much more,
0:04:00 tends to be much less than it otherwise would be.
0:04:03 So I think if you are very confident in other aspects of your life,
0:04:08 then your desire to associate your net worth with your self-worth really diminishes.
0:04:10 And so I guess to answer the question,
0:04:12 there is no right amount for that.
0:04:15 I know people who have lived very good,
0:04:19 amazing lives pretty much in some form of retirement with half a million dollars.
0:04:23 There are also deca billionaires who wake up every single morning saying,
0:04:23 it’s not enough.
0:04:24 It is not enough.
0:04:27 This is the classic Chris Rock joke where he said,
0:04:28 if Bill Gates woke up with Oprah’s money,
0:04:29 he’d jump out the window.
0:04:33 And so there’s always a level at which it’s never going to feel like it’s enough.
0:04:40 Understanding your propensity to move the goalpost and your desire to find value in your life
0:04:43 outside of your net worth is one of the most important topics with money.
0:04:46 Yeah, I think about this a lot.
0:04:48 So you say something, Morgan, that really resonated with me,
0:04:51 and that is rich is the stuff you see.
0:04:53 Wealth are the things you don’t see, right?
0:04:55 The real wealth is a peace of mind.
0:04:57 You know you’re bulletproof.
0:04:59 You don’t need a flashy car.
0:05:03 And so I used to think of, I no longer say this is what rich is.
0:05:05 I say this is what wealth is.
0:05:08 And that is figure out how much money what your burn is.
0:05:11 Say you need $100,000 to live your life.
0:05:15 What wealth is, is you don’t have to do anything.
0:05:16 You don’t have to get up.
0:05:18 Whatever you do, you choose to do for money
0:05:21 because your passive income is $100,000 a year.
0:05:24 And generally speaking, a general benchmark is to say,
0:05:28 okay, if that number is $100,000 times it by 25,
0:05:31 that assumes that 4% post-tax return,
0:05:32 you’re pretty bulletproof,
0:05:35 which means that once you’ve managed to save $2.5 million,
0:05:38 which isn’t easy, you’re done, or you’re technically wealthy.
0:05:42 So the question then becomes, well, what is that number?
0:05:47 And for me, that number has gone up 100-fold,
0:05:48 and I’m not exaggerating.
0:05:50 I thought, when I was in college, I thought,
0:05:54 if I ever have a base of a million bucks of liquid net worth,
0:05:55 I’m kind of done.
0:05:56 And that is, I’ll be working just to work.
0:06:01 Then as I got older, and I thought about a family and a house,
0:06:03 it went to $10 million.
0:06:05 And then when I got to $10 million,
0:06:07 I decided I’d really like to have a plane.
0:06:10 I’d really like to give money away.
0:06:14 I’d really like to feel like I’m relevant.
0:06:18 And unfortunately, and I hate to say this at my age,
0:06:20 relevance for me is still strongly attached
0:06:22 not only to my professional relevance,
0:06:23 but how much money I make.
0:06:25 And I can’t snap out of it.
0:06:27 And I’ve said openly,
0:06:29 I think everyone has certain addictions,
0:06:30 and that is, what is an addiction?
0:06:31 Something you engage in,
0:06:33 despite it having negative ramifications
0:06:34 in other parts of your life.
0:06:37 I’m addicted to the affirmation of others.
0:06:40 If someone comes on on YouTube and says,
0:06:42 Morgan’s amazing, but Scott’s an awful human being,
0:06:44 it will bum me out and maybe take me away
0:06:46 from my kids for a few minutes.
0:06:46 That’s an addiction.
0:06:47 It shouldn’t matter.
0:06:49 I’m also addicted to money.
0:06:53 I got lucky again, and I’m done.
0:06:54 Theoretically, I’m done.
0:06:58 If I have a bad day in the market, it upsets me.
0:07:00 And it makes no difference in my life.
0:07:04 So my number went up a hundredfold.
0:07:06 When I hit, finally did hit that number,
0:07:10 I have consciously tried to have a practice of saying,
0:07:13 okay, get off the hamster wheel.
0:07:15 Money is the ink in your pen.
0:07:16 It can write new chapters.
0:07:18 It can make certain chapters burn brighter,
0:07:20 but it’s not who you are.
0:07:21 What is your purpose?
0:07:23 Like, what are you trying to achieve here?
0:07:24 Because my whole life,
0:07:27 my only purpose was economic security.
0:07:29 My mom got very sick, and we didn’t have money.
0:07:31 And when I had kids, as I told you,
0:07:33 I wasn’t in the place I wanted to be.
0:07:35 So it is just hardwired into me.
0:07:37 And it’s something I’ve always had.
0:07:40 I’ve never been able to fully snap out of it.
0:07:42 But I do think what Morgan’s talking about,
0:07:43 evaluate your relationships,
0:07:46 evaluate your health.
0:07:51 And once you have a point where you know you can survive an economic shock,
0:07:52 take your kids on a vacation,
0:07:54 have health care,
0:07:55 you know, they say that that is around,
0:07:57 they used to say that was $75,000 a year.
0:07:58 I think that’s bullshit.
0:08:02 I don’t think anyone can be economically stress-free at $75,000.
0:08:04 I think that’s more like $200,000 or $300,000 a year.
0:08:09 And I don’t know if you’ve read any Daniel Kahneman,
0:08:11 but his research was,
0:08:13 once you get to that certain point,
0:08:15 incremental money is no happiness.
0:08:17 Which says to me,
0:08:18 and I want to put this to you,
0:08:19 this goes back to public policy.
0:08:20 I don’t,
0:08:21 I believe that.
0:08:22 So for me,
0:08:23 pick a big number,
0:08:25 $2,000, $3 million a year.
0:08:28 I don’t understand why we wouldn’t have tax rates of 60,
0:08:29 70 or 80%
0:08:31 because it’s not making anyone any happier.
0:08:34 Whereas if you can redistribute that money to universal,
0:08:35 you know,
0:08:36 child care
0:08:38 or health care subsidies
0:08:39 or schools
0:08:40 or after school programs,
0:08:42 things that really make a difference in people’s lives.
0:08:44 And it’s not going to make any difference
0:08:46 in uber-wealthy households
0:08:47 if they have,
0:08:48 if they make $4 million a year
0:08:49 instead of $4.5 million.
0:08:51 Why wouldn’t we have
0:08:54 incredibly aggressive incremental tax rates
0:08:55 above a certain amount?
0:08:57 I realize this is a bit of an off-ramp here,
0:08:57 a diversion,
0:08:59 but I’m just curious to get your thoughts on this, Morgan.
0:09:01 Yeah, I mean,
0:09:03 that’s effectively what we did in the 1950s.
0:09:05 And in some aspects,
0:09:06 it did work out.
0:09:06 In many aspects,
0:09:07 it didn’t.
0:09:08 One little quirk on this
0:09:09 that I think is important
0:09:10 is what some of the research shows
0:09:11 is that
0:09:12 if you are already
0:09:15 a sad, depressed, glum person,
0:09:17 the evidence is that
0:09:17 earning more money.
0:09:18 It’s not going to change that.
0:09:19 It’s not going to change.
0:09:20 It’s not going to do anything for you.
0:09:21 And you can,
0:09:22 you can,
0:09:24 you can put a face on that
0:09:25 and when,
0:09:26 and really imagine someone
0:09:27 who is earning tons of money,
0:09:29 their income is doubling every year,
0:09:30 they’re promoted,
0:09:31 they get huge bonuses,
0:09:32 they’re making millions of dollars a year,
0:09:34 but their marriage is shot.
0:09:35 Their kids don’t talk to them.
0:09:36 They’re overweight.
0:09:37 They smoke.
0:09:37 They don’t sleep at night.
0:09:38 They have a dirty conscience.
0:09:39 Like, go on down the list.
0:09:41 Of course that person’s not happy.
0:09:42 But if you are starting out
0:09:44 as a happy,
0:09:45 content,
0:09:46 smiling person,
0:09:47 then earn,
0:09:48 then earning more money
0:09:49 is like an amazing thing.
0:09:50 Like it leverages who you are
0:09:51 in either direction.
0:09:53 And that’s what’s really important.
0:09:54 But it’s too easy
0:09:55 to tell yourself,
0:09:57 if only I earn twice as much money,
0:09:58 then these problems would go away.
0:09:59 If only I earn more money,
0:10:01 then my spouse would love me more.
0:10:02 My kids would talk to me more.
0:10:02 I would be in better health.
0:10:04 I think around the edges
0:10:05 that actually can be true
0:10:06 to some extent,
0:10:08 but dramatically less than
0:10:09 we assume that it will be.
0:10:11 Let’s go on to question two.
0:10:13 Question number two comes from user
0:10:15 to put it frankly on Reddit.
0:10:15 They say,
0:10:17 Is it okay to hold
0:10:18 a higher cash balance,
0:10:19 for example,
0:10:21 35% of total portfolio,
0:10:22 at 4% yield
0:10:23 just to help me sleep at night?
0:10:24 I’m 31 years old,
0:10:26 but I worry with all the layoffs
0:10:27 in the tech scene,
0:10:27 I may be unemployed
0:10:28 for one to two years
0:10:30 and want to have that cash
0:10:31 for peace of mind,
0:10:31 even though I should
0:10:32 probably invest it.
0:10:32 Morgan?
0:10:34 Not only is it okay,
0:10:35 it’s what I do.
0:10:38 And I’m not recommending necessarily
0:10:39 that everybody does that,
0:10:41 but the biggest risk
0:10:42 in your personal life
0:10:43 and throughout the economy
0:10:45 are things that you are not
0:10:46 talking about
0:10:47 and nobody sees coming.
0:10:49 The biggest economic stories
0:10:50 in the last 25 years
0:10:50 were 9-11,
0:10:52 Lehman Brothers going bankrupt,
0:10:52 and COVID.
0:10:54 And the common denominator
0:10:55 of all three of those
0:10:56 is nobody saw them coming
0:10:57 until the moment
0:10:57 that they happened.
0:10:59 And same with Pearl Harbor,
0:11:00 same with like,
0:11:01 all the big events
0:11:02 are the ones that are unforeseeable.
0:11:03 And in your personal life,
0:11:04 your individual life,
0:11:05 nobody gets married
0:11:06 thinking they’re going
0:11:07 to be divorced.
0:11:08 No 25-year-old thinks
0:11:09 they’re going to die of cancer
0:11:09 in the next 10 years.
0:11:10 Go on down that list.
0:11:12 The biggest risk
0:11:13 in your personal life
0:11:14 are things that you are
0:11:15 not thinking about today.
0:11:16 Because of that,
0:11:17 the only thing that you can
0:11:18 really do financially
0:11:20 to guard yourself
0:11:20 and protect yourself
0:11:21 in that world
0:11:22 is have a level of savings
0:11:24 that seems like it’s too much.
0:11:25 Like if you are only saving
0:11:26 for the events
0:11:27 that you can foresee,
0:11:28 then by definition,
0:11:28 you’re not prepared
0:11:29 for the surprise.
0:11:30 And the surprise
0:11:31 is always the biggest risk.
0:11:34 And so when I save money
0:11:35 or if a financial advisor
0:11:36 were to look at my asset allocation,
0:11:37 they might say,
0:11:38 what are you saving for?
0:11:39 You saving for a house?
0:11:40 You saving for a new car?
0:11:42 And my answer would always be like,
0:11:43 no, I’m saving for a world
0:11:45 in which the biggest risk
0:11:46 is always what I don’t see coming.
0:11:47 I have no idea
0:11:49 what the next COVID is going to be,
0:11:51 what the next 9-11 is going to be.
0:11:54 And if I only have enough cash
0:11:54 for the risks
0:11:56 that I can foresee in front of me,
0:11:57 I’m going to be caught off guard.
0:11:59 And so the other thing about that
0:12:00 is that if you have
0:12:01 a higher cash balance,
0:12:03 it gives you a fighting chance
0:12:05 to keep invested
0:12:06 in the stocks that you own.
0:12:08 The only thing that’s going to matter
0:12:09 for the investments that you own
0:12:10 over the course of your life
0:12:11 is whether you can remain invested
0:12:12 when shit gets real,
0:12:13 when shit hits the fan.
0:12:15 That’s all that matters.
0:12:17 And if having 35% cash
0:12:18 means that when the stock market
0:12:19 falls 50%,
0:12:20 you’re able to leave it alone
0:12:22 because it’s not that big a deal
0:12:23 and you have this cash,
0:12:24 this liquid savings,
0:12:26 then actually the return on that cash
0:12:28 is much, much higher
0:12:29 than the 3% you’re getting
0:12:30 in your savings account.
0:12:32 If it prevents you from selling
0:12:34 and having this unbelievable
0:12:35 financial scar
0:12:36 from dumping your stocks
0:12:37 at the bottom,
0:12:38 then the actual return,
0:12:39 the implied return,
0:12:40 it’s a hidden return
0:12:41 that you earned on your cash
0:12:43 might be 10% or 20%.
0:12:47 And so that hidden return on cash
0:12:49 from letting you sleep at night,
0:12:50 from being there when you need it,
0:12:51 and preventing you
0:12:52 from dumping your stocks
0:12:54 at the worst possible time
0:12:54 can be enormous.
0:12:56 Yeah, I love that.
0:12:59 Like, money helps you
0:13:00 do wonderful things,
0:13:01 but money isn’t just about
0:13:02 the additional things
0:13:02 it gets you.
0:13:04 It’s about freeing you
0:13:06 from an absence of things,
0:13:07 an absence of stress
0:13:08 that you can’t afford healthcare.
0:13:10 It’s about taking things away.
0:13:11 It’s about knowing
0:13:13 that if someone in your life,
0:13:13 God forbid,
0:13:14 is diagnosed with lung cancer,
0:13:16 it doesn’t mean
0:13:16 you’re going to go bankrupt.
0:13:19 So it removes certain stressors.
0:13:20 And everybody,
0:13:21 at the end of the day,
0:13:22 has a different level
0:13:25 of emotional susceptibility
0:13:26 to stress.
0:13:28 Now, theoretically,
0:13:29 people will say
0:13:30 always be invested in the market,
0:13:31 just diversify,
0:13:32 that that’s usually the way to go.
0:13:34 There’s also people that say
0:13:35 always have six months
0:13:37 of kind of emergency funding.
0:13:39 Because to your point,
0:13:39 Morgan,
0:13:41 what you never want to be,
0:13:42 well, one,
0:13:43 you don’t ever want to be stressed,
0:13:44 but two,
0:13:45 you never want to be
0:13:46 a forced seller.
0:13:48 Because if you’re
0:13:49 a forced seller,
0:13:50 I can guarantee you,
0:13:52 basically,
0:13:53 when you get divorced,
0:13:54 you’re a forced seller.
0:13:55 And that is,
0:13:56 you’ve got to sell a house,
0:13:57 you’ve got to sell stocks,
0:13:58 you’ve got to divide stuff.
0:14:00 And I can guarantee you,
0:14:01 I don’t care when you get divorced,
0:14:02 it will be at exactly
0:14:03 the wrong moment
0:14:04 for the assets you have.
0:14:07 The forced seller,
0:14:09 if you’re a forced seller,
0:14:09 it usually means
0:14:10 other people are forced sellers
0:14:13 and buyers are swooping in
0:14:13 with,
0:14:14 they smell fear,
0:14:15 they’re swooping in
0:14:15 with ridiculous
0:14:16 below market offers.
0:14:18 So the great financial recession
0:14:19 where,
0:14:19 you know,
0:14:20 the markets got cut
0:14:21 in half or more,
0:14:23 they ripped back,
0:14:23 what,
0:14:24 in 14 months?
0:14:25 So you want to talk
0:14:26 about emotional stress.
0:14:28 If you had a burn
0:14:29 and not enough savings
0:14:30 to cover your burn
0:14:31 and you were a forced seller
0:14:32 of stocks
0:14:34 and then you saw them
0:14:35 rip back,
0:14:37 imagine the anxiety
0:14:38 you registered then.
0:14:39 So I,
0:14:41 I 100% agree with Morgan,
0:14:42 you don’t want to be
0:14:42 a forced seller.
0:14:44 A lot of it
0:14:44 is kind of up to you
0:14:45 around where you get
0:14:46 emotional comfort.
0:14:48 What I do is
0:14:50 I don’t have 35% in cash.
0:14:52 What I have tried to do
0:14:53 was make,
0:14:54 is make myself
0:14:56 somewhat bulletproof
0:14:57 by a massive amount
0:14:58 of diversification.
0:14:58 That is,
0:15:00 I don’t have 35% in cash.
0:15:01 What I have is
0:15:02 no more,
0:15:03 other than real estate
0:15:04 where I’m overinvested,
0:15:05 but outside of that,
0:15:06 I never have more than
0:15:07 3 or 4% of my net worth
0:15:08 in any one thing.
0:15:10 Because now,
0:15:11 it’s,
0:15:12 everything’s sort of
0:15:13 correlated now,
0:15:14 but it’s unlikely,
0:15:15 you know,
0:15:16 it’s unlikely,
0:15:17 I’m an investor
0:15:18 in a Chinese fast fashion
0:15:19 company,
0:15:21 in Japanese bonds,
0:15:22 and in a European
0:15:23 aerospace company,
0:15:24 and in tech stocks.
0:15:25 It’s unlikely
0:15:26 they’re all going to
0:15:27 go down together.
0:15:27 They might.
0:15:28 I also own some
0:15:29 Bitcoin,
0:15:30 which I never thought
0:15:30 I would own.
0:15:32 I also own some
0:15:34 pound sterling
0:15:35 in case the dollar
0:15:35 crashes.
0:15:37 because to be clear,
0:15:38 cash in the U.S. dollar
0:15:39 right now
0:15:40 is riskier
0:15:40 than it’s ever been.
0:15:41 It still,
0:15:43 it itself
0:15:44 is a decision.
0:15:45 It’s an investment decision.
0:15:46 So,
0:15:47 you know,
0:15:48 we have a
0:15:50 traditional sort of
0:15:50 comfort,
0:15:51 false cold comfort,
0:15:52 that if I have
0:15:54 savings in dollars,
0:15:55 I’m fine.
0:15:56 Well,
0:15:57 there’s a scenario
0:15:59 where those dollars
0:16:00 are not worth
0:16:01 nearly as much.
0:16:02 so I get comfort
0:16:03 and everyone has to
0:16:04 find their own
0:16:05 levels of comfort
0:16:05 and there’s
0:16:06 best practices,
0:16:08 but I get comfort,
0:16:09 the same comfort
0:16:10 that,
0:16:11 to put it frankly,
0:16:12 on Reddit gets,
0:16:13 I get that comfort
0:16:14 from massive
0:16:15 diversification.
0:16:17 Any final thoughts
0:16:17 here, Morgan?
0:16:18 No,
0:16:19 I think that’s good.
0:16:19 I mean,
0:16:20 all the stocks
0:16:21 that I own
0:16:21 is basically
0:16:22 mostly the Vanguard
0:16:23 Total Stock Market Index.
0:16:25 It’s 6,000 companies
0:16:26 that’s owned in there.
0:16:26 You’re right that
0:16:28 usually in the
0:16:29 heat of a crisis,
0:16:30 most correlations
0:16:30 go to one.
0:16:31 It doesn’t matter
0:16:32 whether you own
0:16:32 small caps,
0:16:33 large caps,
0:16:33 tax,
0:16:34 banking,
0:16:35 it doesn’t matter.
0:16:37 They’re all going down
0:16:38 indiscriminately.
0:16:39 That tends to be the case.
0:16:42 And so you can still
0:16:43 kind of fool yourself
0:16:44 even with big diversification,
0:16:45 particularly for short
0:16:46 periods of time
0:16:46 when everyone’s panicking.
0:16:48 But to that point,
0:16:49 I love this definition
0:16:50 from Napoleon.
0:16:50 He said,
0:16:51 the military genius
0:16:52 is the man
0:16:54 who can do the average thing
0:16:55 when everyone else
0:16:56 is losing his mind.
0:16:57 And I think it’s the exact same
0:16:58 in investing and finance.
0:17:00 If you can merely be average
0:17:01 when everyone else
0:17:01 is panicking,
0:17:03 you are top 1%.
0:17:05 And so it’s less too
0:17:07 about your financial diversification
0:17:08 and more about the behaviors
0:17:09 that you can maintain
0:17:11 once or twice per decade
0:17:11 when everyone’s losing
0:17:12 their mind.
0:17:14 I love that.
0:17:15 We’ll be right back
0:17:16 after a quick break.
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0:18:32 We say this all the time
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0:18:33 but it bears repeating.
0:18:34 Running a small business
0:18:36 isn’t just a full-time job,
0:18:37 it’s about a dozen
0:18:37 full-time jobs
0:18:38 that you rarely
0:18:39 if ever
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0:19:11 help fast
0:19:12 without compromising
0:19:13 on quality
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0:20:43 welcome back
0:20:45 onto our final question
0:20:46 user bowtender
0:20:47 OC says
0:20:49 a big fan of Morgan
0:20:50 I’d love to hear
0:20:50 some detailed
0:20:51 personal spending
0:20:52 from him
0:20:52 he’s discussed
0:20:53 his approach
0:20:54 and philosophy
0:20:54 but I’m curious
0:20:55 about specifics
0:20:56 like where does he skimp
0:20:57 and where does he splurge
0:20:59 is he financially
0:20:59 independent
0:21:00 does he put money
0:21:01 in plans for his
0:21:02 kids future education
0:21:04 private or public schools
0:21:05 does he fly first class
0:21:06 or private ever
0:21:07 are his friends
0:21:08 normal or wealthy
0:21:09 and what about you Scott
0:21:12 I could just
0:21:12 I could just share
0:21:12 my screen
0:21:13 and pull up my
0:21:14 my credit card statement
0:21:15 or something
0:21:15 I don’t know
0:21:17 no like look
0:21:18 my wife and I
0:21:18 have been together
0:21:19 since we were
0:21:20 very young
0:21:20 so we became
0:21:21 adults together
0:21:22 and when we met
0:21:22 we didn’t have any money
0:21:23 so we’ve gone
0:21:24 through this together
0:21:24 which has been
0:21:25 a good
0:21:26 a good experience
0:21:27 and my
0:21:27 our financial
0:21:28 change situation
0:21:29 changed very
0:21:30 dramatically
0:21:30 in the last
0:21:31 five years
0:21:32 when we had
0:21:32 two kids
0:21:32 and we’re
0:21:33 and we had
0:21:33 been already
0:21:34 been married
0:21:35 for for 10 years
0:21:36 as a big saver
0:21:37 and I still am
0:21:38 a very big saver
0:21:39 I don’t view it
0:21:40 as saving money
0:21:40 I view it
0:21:41 as purchasing
0:21:41 independence
0:21:42 and so
0:21:43 what is the
0:21:43 biggest expense
0:21:44 that I have
0:21:45 it’s independence
0:21:46 and that feels
0:21:46 like I’m cheating
0:21:47 on that question
0:21:48 I get it
0:21:48 but it’s the most
0:21:49 valuable thing
0:21:49 in the world
0:21:50 to me
0:21:50 to wake up
0:21:50 every morning
0:21:51 and be like
0:21:51 I can do
0:21:51 I can do
0:21:52 whatever I want
0:21:52 I can do
0:21:53 whatever the heck
0:21:53 I want today
0:21:55 and that is
0:21:56 that’s my prized
0:21:57 possession by far
0:21:58 people have
0:21:59 different personalities
0:21:59 on that
0:22:00 but to me
0:22:00 nothing has ever
0:22:01 meant more
0:22:02 than that
0:22:03 we do spend
0:22:04 on actually
0:22:05 spending stuff
0:22:06 quite a bit more
0:22:06 than we did
0:22:07 five years ago
0:22:08 we bought a new
0:22:08 house a year ago
0:22:09 we’ve got to
0:22:10 take awesome trips
0:22:11 the truth is
0:22:12 we buy anything
0:22:12 we want
0:22:13 there’s no budget
0:22:14 the truth too
0:22:15 is that that was
0:22:16 true 15 years ago
0:22:16 when we made
0:22:18 99% less money
0:22:19 and so
0:22:20 it’s always kind
0:22:21 of been like that
0:22:22 what’s important
0:22:22 to me
0:22:23 always been important
0:22:24 but very important
0:22:25 now that we make
0:22:25 a little bit more money
0:22:26 is that I’m not
0:22:28 beholden to the money
0:22:28 that the money
0:22:29 is not commanding
0:22:30 my personality
0:22:31 and that
0:22:32 I don’t say
0:22:33 oh because we make
0:22:33 this much money
0:22:35 we have to drive
0:22:35 this car
0:22:36 and have to
0:22:37 I have to own
0:22:37 this watch
0:22:38 and I have to
0:22:38 dress this way
0:22:39 even if I don’t
0:22:39 want to
0:22:40 that is when
0:22:41 you are just
0:22:41 a victim
0:22:42 you’re beholden
0:22:42 to what money
0:22:43 is telling you
0:22:43 to do
0:22:44 and so I want
0:22:44 to use it
0:22:45 as a tool
0:22:46 to become
0:22:47 the best version
0:22:47 of myself
0:22:48 but I don’t want
0:22:49 it to define
0:22:49 who I am
0:22:51 and so we travel
0:22:51 well
0:22:52 we eat well
0:22:54 I love hanging out
0:22:54 with my friends
0:22:55 I have one of my
0:22:56 best friends
0:22:56 in California
0:22:57 I’ve known him
0:22:58 for a quarter
0:22:58 of a century
0:22:59 he’s an awesome guy
0:23:00 I love paying
0:23:01 for his first class
0:23:02 ticket to fly up
0:23:02 and see me
0:23:03 and then we go out
0:23:04 to fancy restaurants
0:23:05 and nothing makes me
0:23:06 happier than doing
0:23:06 that for him
0:23:07 it’s the coolest
0:23:08 thing in the world
0:23:10 and so I want
0:23:10 to use money
0:23:11 as a tool
0:23:11 to do things
0:23:12 like that
0:23:13 rather than
0:23:14 being beholden
0:23:15 to what I’m
0:23:15 supposed to be
0:23:16 because I earn
0:23:17 X dollars per year
0:23:19 yeah we’re
0:23:19 of the same
0:23:20 mind here
0:23:21 I’m older
0:23:21 than you
0:23:23 how old
0:23:23 are you Morgan
0:23:24 41
0:23:25 so you’re way
0:23:26 ahead of where
0:23:26 I was
0:23:27 at your age
0:23:27 I’m 60
0:23:29 I got very lucky
0:23:29 there’s nothing
0:23:30 like 7 trillion
0:23:31 dollars in stimulus
0:23:32 pumped into
0:23:33 pumped into
0:23:34 the market
0:23:35 to keep
0:23:36 people who already
0:23:36 have assets
0:23:37 wealthy
0:23:38 and so I’ve
0:23:38 basically
0:23:40 vis-a-vis
0:23:40 our government
0:23:41 been using
0:23:42 the next generation’s
0:23:43 credit card
0:23:44 to see
0:23:45 my assets
0:23:46 which I were
0:23:47 able to acquire
0:23:47 I’m not humble
0:23:48 I’m a fucking
0:23:49 monster
0:23:49 I’m talented
0:23:50 I work hard
0:23:52 but it’s better
0:23:52 to be lucky
0:23:53 than good
0:23:54 and since 2008
0:23:55 my net worth
0:23:56 has absolutely
0:23:56 exploded
0:23:58 because what do
0:23:58 you know
0:23:58 we’ve been in
0:23:59 the biggest bull
0:24:00 market in the
0:24:00 history of any
0:24:01 economy anywhere
0:24:02 for 17 years
0:24:05 and I’m on
0:24:06 the back nine
0:24:06 and that is
0:24:08 I would say
0:24:08 the difference
0:24:09 between the U.S.
0:24:09 and Europe
0:24:10 is the U.S.
0:24:10 is the best place
0:24:11 to make money
0:24:12 Europe’s the best
0:24:13 place to spend it
0:24:14 I’m in Europe
0:24:15 for a reason
0:24:15 I’m in the part
0:24:16 of my life
0:24:16 where I’ve decided
0:24:17 I want to spend
0:24:17 a lot of money
0:24:19 I think in a capitalist
0:24:19 society
0:24:20 I can’t stand it
0:24:20 when people don’t
0:24:21 know how to spend
0:24:21 their money
0:24:22 I know a lot of people
0:24:23 and you just wrote
0:24:23 a book on this
0:24:24 who are really
0:24:25 really wealthy
0:24:26 and they don’t
0:24:26 they have
0:24:27 they have like
0:24:28 tacky homes
0:24:28 and they don’t
0:24:30 take nice vacations
0:24:30 and they worry
0:24:31 about money
0:24:31 I’m like
0:24:32 what’s
0:24:34 I’m of the mind
0:24:34 you don’t really
0:24:35 own money
0:24:35 you rent it
0:24:37 but if you rent
0:24:37 it out
0:24:38 you can do
0:24:38 just amazing
0:24:39 shit with it
0:24:40 and so
0:24:41 when I kind
0:24:41 of hit
0:24:42 my number
0:24:43 which is
0:24:43 and this is
0:24:44 a story
0:24:45 of extreme
0:24:45 privilege
0:24:46 very lucky
0:24:47 and very talented
0:24:49 and born
0:24:49 at the right
0:24:49 place
0:24:50 at the right
0:24:50 time
0:24:50 with the right
0:24:51 skin color
0:24:51 and the right
0:24:52 outdoor plumbing
0:24:53 disproportionate
0:24:53 advantage
0:24:54 has accreted in me
0:24:55 I want to do
0:24:55 my land
0:24:56 acknowledgement
0:24:58 but I spend
0:24:59 a shit ton
0:24:59 of money
0:25:03 and I spend
0:25:04 probably 50%
0:25:05 of it on what
0:25:05 I’ll call
0:25:06 experiences
0:25:08 and that is
0:25:09 I do amazing
0:25:11 amazing vacations
0:25:12 with friends
0:25:13 and family
0:25:14 and plan them
0:25:15 out
0:25:17 and live
0:25:17 in beautiful
0:25:18 homes
0:25:19 and I just
0:25:20 don’t let
0:25:20 I love what you
0:25:21 said about your
0:25:21 friend
0:25:22 I do the same
0:25:22 thing
0:25:24 what I’ve
0:25:24 done
0:25:25 what’s
0:25:25 changed
0:25:26 in the last
0:25:26 10 years
0:25:27 for me
0:25:28 is I don’t
0:25:28 think of
0:25:28 it as
0:25:29 philanthropy
0:25:29 I think
0:25:29 of it as
0:25:29 consumption
0:25:30 every year
0:25:30 I look at
0:25:31 how much
0:25:31 money I
0:25:31 spent
0:25:32 and I try
0:25:32 and match
0:25:33 it and give
0:25:33 it away
0:25:34 and I don’t
0:25:35 do it out
0:25:35 of guilt
0:25:35 I do it
0:25:36 because it
0:25:36 makes me feel
0:25:37 really masculine
0:25:38 it makes me
0:25:38 feel very
0:25:38 American
0:25:40 and I find
0:25:41 these amazing
0:25:43 non-profits
0:25:44 mostly in
0:25:45 public education
0:25:46 and in
0:25:47 teen suicide
0:25:47 prevention
0:25:48 that I just
0:25:48 think are
0:25:49 outstanding
0:25:50 organizations
0:25:50 and I can
0:25:51 have a real
0:25:52 impact
0:25:53 you know
0:25:54 I’m not a
0:25:54 billionaire
0:25:55 but I give
0:25:55 millions away
0:25:56 and I just
0:25:58 it’s one of
0:25:58 the most
0:26:01 rewarding things
0:26:01 that I do
0:26:02 and by the way
0:26:02 I didn’t give
0:26:03 a dime away
0:26:03 until I was
0:26:04 like 45
0:26:05 I’m not
0:26:06 I can’t
0:26:08 pretend to be
0:26:09 a philanthropic
0:26:09 person
0:26:10 I wasn’t born
0:26:10 that way
0:26:11 I find it
0:26:12 just very rewarding
0:26:12 and a lot of
0:26:13 fun now
0:26:15 but I mean
0:26:16 the learning
0:26:16 is the following
0:26:18 there’s an art
0:26:19 to spending money
0:26:20 I imagine
0:26:20 you feel this way
0:26:21 one of the most
0:26:22 rewarding things
0:26:22 in my life
0:26:23 is that when
0:26:24 I met my
0:26:24 partner
0:26:24 we didn’t
0:26:25 have any
0:26:25 money
0:26:26 she was just
0:26:26 out of graduate
0:26:27 school
0:26:27 all she had
0:26:28 was student
0:26:28 debt
0:26:29 and now we’re
0:26:30 wealthy
0:26:30 and having
0:26:31 built that
0:26:32 together
0:26:32 and getting
0:26:33 to spend
0:26:34 it and enjoy
0:26:34 it together
0:26:35 is so
0:26:36 rewarding
0:26:37 it’s so much
0:26:37 fun
0:26:39 we will be
0:26:40 somewhere
0:26:40 extraordinarily
0:26:41 beautiful
0:26:43 or get to
0:26:44 give money
0:26:44 away
0:26:45 and we can
0:26:45 just look
0:26:46 at each
0:26:46 other
0:26:46 and just
0:26:47 high-five
0:26:47 each
0:26:48 other
0:26:48 that
0:26:48 this
0:26:49 worked
0:26:49 out
0:26:49 and we
0:26:50 built
0:26:50 this
0:26:50 together
0:26:51 it’s so
0:26:53 rewarding
0:26:53 that
0:26:55 it’s like
0:26:55 I’ve always
0:26:56 said
0:26:56 it’s not
0:26:57 having the
0:26:58 money’s great
0:26:58 but it was
0:26:59 earning it
0:26:59 that was
0:26:59 fun
0:27:00 and what
0:27:00 was
0:27:01 remarkable
0:27:02 was earning
0:27:02 and building
0:27:03 it with
0:27:03 a partner
0:27:04 that was
0:27:04 just so
0:27:06 so much
0:27:07 fun
0:27:07 any closing
0:27:07 thoughts
0:27:08 here Morgan
0:27:09 I mean
0:27:10 what you’re
0:27:10 really getting
0:27:10 at is what
0:27:11 you really
0:27:11 value right
0:27:11 now
0:27:12 and what
0:27:12 compounded
0:27:12 over time
0:27:13 are those
0:27:13 experiences
0:27:14 in those
0:27:14 memories
0:27:16 and you
0:27:16 know
0:27:16 the
0:27:17 experience
0:27:17 of doing
0:27:17 it
0:27:17 together
0:27:18 and so
0:27:18 it’s
0:27:19 less
0:27:19 there’s
0:27:19 a great
0:27:20 Will Smith
0:27:20 quote
0:27:21 about fame
0:27:21 where he
0:27:21 said
0:27:22 becoming
0:27:23 famous
0:27:23 is the
0:27:23 most
0:27:24 amazing
0:27:24 feeling
0:27:24 in the
0:27:25 world
0:27:26 being
0:27:26 famous
0:27:27 is
0:27:27 merely
0:27:27 okay
0:27:28 and
0:27:29 losing
0:27:29 fame
0:27:30 is one
0:27:30 of life’s
0:27:30 great
0:27:31 tragedies
0:27:32 and I
0:27:32 think
0:27:32 inherent
0:27:33 in that
0:27:33 is like
0:27:33 what you
0:27:34 want
0:27:34 is the
0:27:35 growth
0:27:35 that’s
0:27:35 what
0:27:36 feels
0:27:36 good
0:27:36 and I
0:27:37 think
0:27:37 for a
0:27:37 lot
0:27:37 of
0:27:37 people
0:27:37 that’s
0:27:37 true
0:27:38 for
0:27:38 money
0:27:38 you
0:27:38 don’t
0:27:39 actually
0:27:39 want
0:27:39 to
0:27:39 be
0:27:40 rich
0:27:40 what
0:27:41 you
0:27:41 want
0:27:41 is
0:27:41 to
0:27:42 partake
0:27:42 in
0:27:42 the
0:27:43 process
0:27:43 of
0:27:43 becoming
0:27:44 rich
0:27:44 that’s
0:27:44 what
0:27:45 feels
0:27:45 great
0:27:45 and if
0:27:45 you’re
0:27:46 doing
0:27:46 that
0:27:46 with
0:27:47 somebody
0:27:47 else
0:27:47 along
0:27:48 the way
0:27:48 along
0:27:48 that
0:27:48 journey
0:27:49 100
0:27:49 times
0:27:49 better
0:27:51 I love
0:27:51 that
0:27:51 Morgan
0:27:52 Housel
0:27:52 is the
0:27:52 best
0:27:53 selling
0:27:53 author
0:27:53 of
0:27:53 the
0:27:53 psychology
0:27:54 of
0:27:54 money
0:27:54 and
0:27:54 a
0:27:55 partner
0:27:55 at
0:27:55 the
0:27:56 collaborative
0:27:56 fund
0:27:57 market
0:27:57 watch
0:27:57 named
0:27:57 him
0:27:58 one
0:27:58 of
0:27:58 the
0:27:58 50
0:27:58 most
0:27:59 influential
0:27:59 people
0:27:59 in
0:28:00 markets
0:28:00 his
0:28:00 new
0:28:00 book
0:28:00 the
0:28:01 art
0:28:01 of
0:28:01 spending
0:28:01 money
0:28:01 is
0:28:02 out
0:28:02 now
0:28:02 I
0:28:03 absolutely
0:28:03 love
0:28:04 Morgan
0:28:04 and
0:28:04 his
0:28:05 stuff
0:28:05 I
0:28:06 can
0:28:06 find
0:28:06 a lot
0:28:06 of
0:28:06 his
0:28:07 financial
0:28:07 advice
0:28:07 in
0:28:08 a lot
0:28:08 of
0:28:08 places
0:28:08 what
0:28:09 he’s
0:28:09 able
0:28:09 to
0:28:09 do
0:28:10 is
0:28:10 connected
0:28:10 to
0:28:11 humanity
0:28:11 and
0:28:12 happiness
0:28:12 that’s
0:28:12 his
0:28:13 superpower
0:28:14 is
0:28:14 you
0:28:14 just
0:28:14 get
0:28:15 the
0:28:15 sense
0:28:15 this
0:28:15 guy
0:28:18 knows
0:28:19 how
0:28:19 to
0:28:19 take
0:28:20 these
0:28:20 principles
0:28:21 and
0:28:21 once
0:28:21 you
0:28:21 get
0:28:22 there
0:28:22 enjoy
0:28:23 it
0:28:23 and
0:28:23 be
0:28:24 happy
0:28:24 and
0:28:24 have
0:28:24 really
0:28:25 strong
0:28:25 connective
0:28:26 tissue
0:28:26 with
0:28:26 yourself
0:28:27 your
0:28:27 health
0:28:28 your
0:28:28 relationships
0:28:29 it’s
0:28:29 as if
0:28:30 I
0:28:31 think
0:28:31 of you
0:28:32 more
0:28:32 as
0:28:32 a
0:28:33 psychologist
0:28:35 than
0:28:35 a
0:28:35 financial
0:28:36 person
0:28:36 but
0:28:36 you’ve
0:28:36 really
0:28:36 been
0:28:37 able
0:28:37 to
0:28:37 blend
0:28:37 the
0:28:37 two
0:28:38 and
0:28:39 you
0:28:39 have
0:28:39 the
0:28:39 best
0:28:40 quotes
0:28:40 ever
0:28:41 the
0:28:41 one
0:28:41 I’m
0:28:41 going
0:28:41 to
0:28:42 take
0:28:42 away
0:28:42 from
0:28:42 this
0:28:42 one
0:28:43 is
0:28:43 that
0:28:43 the
0:28:43 military
0:28:44 genius
0:28:44 is
0:28:44 the
0:28:44 person
0:28:44 that
0:28:44 can
0:28:45 just
0:28:45 do
0:28:46 something
0:28:46 at
0:28:46 average
0:28:47 while
0:28:47 everyone
0:28:47 else
0:28:47 around
0:28:48 them
0:28:48 loses
0:28:48 their
0:28:48 minds
0:28:49 anyways
0:28:49 Morgan
0:28:49 very much
0:28:50 enjoyed
0:28:50 this
0:28:50 thanks
0:28:50 for
0:28:51 being
0:28:51 with
0:28:51 us
0:28:51 today
0:28:52 thanks
0:28:52 Scott
0:28:53 fun
0:28:53 as
0:28:53 always
In this special episode of Office Hours, Scott Galloway brings back Morgan Housel to answer your questions on “enough,” financial independence, and the art of spending. They discuss why our money goals keep moving, how to know when you can slow down, and why saving is really about buying independence, not things. Morgan also explains why holding extra cash can be a smart emotional hedge, while Scott shares how he spends today and what he wishes he’d known earlier.
Morgan’s latest book, The Art of Spending Money: Simple Choices for a Richer Life, is out now.
Want to be featured in a future episode? Send a voice recording to officehours@profgmedia.com, or drop your question in the r/ScottGalloway subreddit.
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