AI transcript
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– Episode 304304 is here.
America, belonging to West Virginia, in 1904,
the first subway line opened in New York City,
my favorite fast-food restaurant, True Story.
I found out that my penis is not as big as a subway sandwich.
Also, I’ve been banned from subway.
Go, go, go!
– Welcome to the 304th episode of the Prop G-Pod.
304?
I don’t remember any of this.
Like, I have a sensation, I have a feeling around this,
but I don’t, if someone said, “What happened in episode 285?”
I’d be like, “Geez, I just don’t know.”
In today’s episode, we speak with Kyla Scanlon,
a writer, video creator, and podcaster who focuses
on educating our audience about the economy
and the financial markets.
We hear all about Kyla’s new book in this economy,
“How Money and Markets Really Work.”
I love this conversation.
Kyla brings a refreshing perspective
that we think you’ll enjoy.
I’m also just inspired by these influencers
under the word of thought leaders that weaponize
or leverage new mediums, and one of the wonderful things
about these new mediums, including TikTok,
which is the ultimate propaganda tool
and should be divested, but having said that,
you do discover a lot of fascinating people,
and Kyla bubbled up in my feed.
TikTok, what bubbles up in my feed?
Great Danes, chiropractors aggressively adjusting
out of people.
Who do I be fascinated by that?
I didn’t know.
And then people talking about social justice issues
who also happen to be ridiculously hot.
I knew that one.
I knew that one.
Okay, what’s happening?
Back in London, but I’m headed to Cannes this weekend,
or Cannes, whatever it’s called, Nice.
So Cannes Lions is the creativity festival.
It’s where the less cool people,
but semi-cool sort of aspirational cool people go.
The true ballers go to the Cannes Film Festival.
That intimidates me.
I could never go to that.
I’m not dialed in.
I don’t love movies.
I just wouldn’t, I would not know what to do
at the Cannes Film Festival.
So fortunately, no one has invited me.
So the world, the world is at peace with these decisions.
Anyways, Cannes Lions used to be
where ad executives would go,
collect awards and then find other jobs.
And then the entire economy,
their entire ad world shifted to Google and Metta
and all the new guys.
And slowly, but surely they took over the beach
or the Quassats and you get these amazing parties.
The best parties are at Spotify.
I don’t get invited to the Metta parties.
Go figure, go figure.
I mean, I’m hoping I can go and see Sheryl Sandberg
figure out a way to at scale
depress tens of millions of teenage girls.
I think that would be a great event on the beach.
Maybe they could do that with like a barbecue or something.
Anyway, shocker, they don’t invite me.
Although I will say this, I will say this.
I stay at one of my favorite hotels in the world,
the Hotel Ducat, which has $34 lattes.
And I feel very European
and I put on a big black pair of sunglasses
and I go to that slim errands like beach or the pool.
And I put in an unlit cigarette in my mouth
and I put on a speedo, not true,
but anyways, I dream of putting on a speedo.
And anytime a woman walks by me, I go,
I take down my glasses and I’m like,
Jackie, marry me.
I make you very happy woman.
That’s my impression of Aristotle and Asos.
Ask your parents.
Anyways, what I also do for a total baller moment
is I Google Zodiac or boat rental
and I find some French guy who speaks modest English
and for like a hundred or 200 euros,
which is a lot of money, but it’s worth it.
He comes in some Zodiac,
usually almost always smoking a cigarette,
picks me up at the Hotel Ducat
and then bombs me in to the croissettes
and I always ask him to dump me at the pier
at or at the jetty, if you will,
of either Google or Metta Beach.
I am not invited to either of those places.
They know who I am and they don’t like me,
but I roll in like I’m fucking James Bond
in a tuxedo about to, I don’t know, crash a party
and kill some, I don’t know, nemesis uninvited.
That is how you roll at Cannes Lions.
By the way, if you’re at Cannes Lions
and you see me, please come up and say hi.
I’m desperate for other people’s affirmation.
I’m actually quite friendly, but I need to warn you,
I’m much less impressive in person.
On this show, you’re not really meeting me on this show.
You’re meeting a representative of me
that’s much more charming, interesting, smart,
and funny than I am in real life.
But if you’re looking to meet someone
who’s mildly depressed and angry and quite intense
and actually quite quiet, please come up and say hi.
Unfortunately, I will not be with my dog.
I used to take Leia almost everywhere
and now it is getting just too much
to kind of cart a great dane around continental Europe.
So the dog is staying here
and the big dog is headed to Cannes Lions.
So stop by and say hi.
Okay, moving on to some news.
Apple AI is finally here, but don’t call it AI.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
Call it Apple Intelligence,
which will be integrated throughout Apple’s ecosystem.
Devices, software, apps to do everything
that AI has promised, maybe not everything,
make our lives easier and more efficient.
Apple is even partnering with ChatGPT to answer
user queries that Siri can’t deliver.
By the way, if Apple doesn’t wanna call it Apple AI,
and we have to call it Apple Intelligence,
then I’m not calling ChatGPT, ChatGPT anymore.
I’m calling it what it really is, Microsoft AI.
Much of Apple’s forthcoming features are fairly basic
when you think about the grand scheme of AI,
sorting through notifications, generating images,
writing tools, assisting with personal tasks,
meeting schedules, et cetera.
And as per usual, Apple is playing up its commitment
to privacy.
So let me share my thoughts.
Let me share my thoughts.
The, I like this, it took me a while to get here,
but I’ve been processing here and I like this.
I think this is the exact opposite.
This is the zag to the zig of the mixed reality headset,
which was a bunch of jazz hands.
It’s gonna change the world.
Ooh, you’re gonna see a train set in 3D.
Who the fuck cares?
Ooh, a movie, a movie.
Wow, it’s a 3D movie.
Well, okay, do you really wanna put on a headset
to watch a movie and feel nauseous?
I just don’t get the whole headset thing.
At what point does someone ring a bell
and tell me I was right,
that these headsets are ridiculously stupid
and nothing but consensual hallucination
between the market and Mark Zuckerberg,
that he knew what the fuck he was doing
and he was a true visionary around hardware.
And in order to, in order to have a call option
in case he was right,
Tim Cook Greenlit, probably a billion dollars in spending
for the mixed reality headset,
they will let it die his slow death,
similar to the Hermes Apple Watch.
Isn’t that cute?
Isn’t that cute?
Makes no fucking sense.
Big press release.
And then we just kinda let it go away.
We let it go away.
And here’s the bottom line.
It’s the boring shit that moves shareholder value.
And I’m trying to coin a term, not generative AI,
but integrative AI.
What do I mean by that?
You have a lot of data on your phone.
You have a lot of contacts.
A lot of utility.
A lot of information that could be integrated into an LLM,
not to enhance your media experience
or answer every question,
but just do the following.
Make your life easier.
On Sunday, I was sending my dad a video
and I wanted to find this great picture of me
and his grandsons at the UEFA finals.
And I couldn’t find the goddamn thing.
And one of the things that Apple Intelligence is promising
is to make searching your photos much easier
and also to have a huge upgrade
to what is the front end of an LLM or AI
or in this case, Apple Intelligence.
See above Microsoft AI, not chat GBT,
is to make it much easier
and to integrate a billion people’s data
per their permission, right?
That’s a key consideration here.
I mean, they’ve done so much right here
as I think about it.
First off, they’ve said, okay,
the AI brand has gotten weird and dangerous
and oh, it’s gonna kill us.
Oh, it’s gonna save us.
Oh, it doesn’t know what it’s doing.
Oh, these answers make no goddamn sense.
Oh, wait, Scarlett, there’s just so much weird shit
surrounding AI.
Oh, this person who supposedly knows AI says
it’s gonna kill us.
It just feels kind of, oh, how am I using it?
I don’t know, I’m not using it,
but I’ll buy more Nvidia.
The whole space is getting,
I don’t know, it feels like you read too much about AI.
You kind of wanna shower or kill yourself
or find a time machine and go back in time
such that you can find yourself, kill yourself
and then do sort of like a murder suicide.
Is that dark?
That’s pretty fucking dark, isn’t it?
Anyway, anyway, how do I use AI?
I use it to plan weekends with my 13-year-old son.
Well, I said, what are we doing this weekend?
And we type in this crazy prompt
to try and find something fun to do in London.
And I gotta be honest, I think it does an amazing job.
I also love Adobe Firefly,
the AI that has taken a different approach
and this is smart.
They have licensed all of the content
or it’s their own content
so they don’t have to worry about what happened at,
I think it was, I don’t know if it was Google or Llama
or Joey Bagadon, it’s AI where they typed in a prompt
and it literally brought a verbatim of Forbes article
and it’s like, well, okay, are you paying Forbes?
No, they’re not.
They’re not.
So they’ve said, we need to get away from this brand,
make it more about privacy, make it more about utility,
make it more about incremental change,
make it friendlier, upgrade Siri,
which is arguably one of the worst brands in tech
from Apple or more sub-brands, if you will,
and make it more, I don’t know, make it more UTEL,
so to speak.
Of course, Elon Musk had to weigh in
and say that he’s not gonna use it, who knows.
It was down 2% and then it was up 5% today,
so I don’t know exactly what that means.
I think people are starting to figure out
that the second mouse here
or the biggest second mouse in history is Apple,
what do I mean by that?
Innovation is actually a terrible shareholder strategy.
That’s right, that’s right, you heard it here.
My colleague at NYU is now at Dartmouth
at the Tuck School, did breakthrough research
that would just open my eyes,
that it’s not the innovator that makes money,
it’s the second or the third company that comes in
and lets them spend a ton of money and waste a ton,
and then says, oh, okay, you spent a ton of money
trying to come up with an MP3 player,
we’ll now come in and make it easier to use.
Oh, graphic, user interface, Xerox PARC,
thanks very much, this works great,
you don’t know how to use it, we’ll commercialize
and make a shit ton of money.
So that, I think, is what Apple’s trying to do here.
They’ve been thoughtful, they’ve been kind of laying
in the reeds and I said, okay, we’re ready,
this is what’s good about AI,
this is what’s bad about AI,
and they come in and said, okay, what’s bad about it
is the brand, what’s bad about it is promising
or over-promising and under-delivering,
we’re gonna start small and go incremental,
the absolute opposite of the mixed reality headset.
I like this, I think it makes sense, keep in mind,
keep in mind, it’s the boring stuff that makes you money,
it’s the mundane stuff that moves shareholder value.
We’ll be right back for our conversation
with Kyla Scanlon.
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– Welcome back.
Here’s our conversation with Kyla Scanlon,
a writer, video creator, podcaster, and author of,
In This Economy, How Money and Markets Really Work.
Kyla, where does this podcast find you?
– I’m in New York City right now.
– And you’re at a WeWork with a fan in the background.
Where’s Adam Newman?
– Yeah, oh, he’s not involved anymore.
He’s focused on real estate now, right?
– Yeah, I’ve heard he’s doing flow
or something right about this.
Okay, so we’re making an effort
to bring in young influencers.
I have a tendency to find people my age,
boomers who are on CNBC,
and so you’re one of our first outreach
to someone we found.
I think we found you on TikTok.
Anyways, your new book, In This Economy,
explores how money and markets really work.
Walk us through what you believe
are the biggest misconceptions about the U.S. economy.
– Yeah, I mean, I think that’s the issue
is that a lot of everything’s kind of
misconception right now.
I think a lot of people have a frustration
with how the economy is functioning,
like the labor market, inflation, et cetera.
A lot of people think that inflation going down
means that prices should go down,
but we’ve been dealing with a pressure
to curb inflation, so everybody wants prices to go down.
There’s rolling recessions in tech and finance,
so people extrapolate that
to the broader labor market as well.
So I think there’s a lot of misconceptions,
and the goal of the book is just to be a toolbox
to understand the economy.
Everything that you need to know about inflation, GDP,
all the terminology and how it applies to you
without all the theory that goes into it.
– What do most people get wrong
about money and the markets?
– One of my favorite charts is the chart
from the Federal Reserve.
It’s called the Distribution of Financial Assets,
and it shows that the bottom 50% have all of their wealth
inside of real estate,
and the top 10% have their wealth
inside of stocks and business ownership.
And so I think a lot of people think
that homeownership is sort of the path to wealth,
and I think historically, it could have been,
but we kind of need to rethink what homeownership means,
right?
It’s very confusing, though,
how to be both a speculative investment
and then also a place that you need to live.
And so I think that’s kind of,
it’s not necessarily what people get wrong
about the economy,
but I think it’s the thing that is most harmful
is we view housing as the way to wealth
when maybe it really shouldn’t be.
– But it’s an housing to a certain extent.
I’ve been thinking a lot about how to build wealth.
And one of the features of observations I would have
is that it is very difficult for people to build wealth
with anything they can get their hands on.
What do I mean by that?
99% of people, I believe,
will spend everything within their grasp.
And that’s why these four savings programs
or options where you get one big lumpy hit
or you sell a company,
the big hits you weren’t expecting
’cause regular cash in your hand is very hard to hold onto
given all the temptations that’s offered
by in a capitalist society to a certain extent
isn’t housing sort of forced savings
’cause people don’t want to be evicted.
So it forces them to make that kind of investment,
some of which goes into equity in the home.
– Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I think housing is definitely one path to that.
I think if you look at that chart, though,
like the clear answer to how to build wealth,
if you just are following the path
of what rich people have already done
is some form of stock ownership
and some form of building a business,
whether that be in place or option programs
or just actually building your own business.
So I think housing is great
in terms of the forced savings aspect, as you’ve mentioned.
But we have this expectation
that house prices always go up,
but from 1860 to 1960,
home prices went up by 0.06%.
And so I think we just kind of have a messy conception
and then it creates a lot of economic foreboding
when people feel like they can’t achieve
quote unquote American dream
because it’s the only way that they know how to build wealth.
– I think that’s a great point.
Actually, Philip Schiller of the K. Schiller index says
if you take into account maintenance
that the housing market has not been nearly the asset class
that the people claim it is.
In the book, you write people are not static entities
but dynamic beings with evolving needs and aspirations
and growing economy should reflect that.
When you look at our economy,
what areas do you think need the most attention right now?
– I mean, I think that we’ve done a really, really good job
at focusing on manufacturing,
the Chips Act, the IRA, the IAJA,
all of those have really invested in American manufacturing
and have enabled like, you know, fab factories
to be built in Arizona.
But I think like the big thing,
and you’ve done a very good job talking about this
is like sort of putting young people in a path.
I think that a lot of people feel stuck in their jobs
or feel like they’re not able to pursue
as you would say they’re telling.
But I think that’s kind of where we need help
is that we have a whole generation of people
that are stuck and the labor market is sort of funny.
Like there are these ruling recessions in tech and finance.
And so I think it’s just,
it’s a reallocation of capital
that will enable new jobs to come out.
I think that’s what needs to be done.
Yeah.
– You coined this great term, vibe session.
What is it and are we experiencing it?
– A vibe session is a disconnect between consumer sentiment
and economic data.
And I wrote this piece back in July, 2022
and it turned into a New York Times opinion piece.
And everybody kind of latched onto it
because, you know, the economic data was really good
during that time, like GDP was improving,
labor market was strong, inflation was going down,
but people were still feeling really bad
if you looked at sentiment metrics.
And so that term is meant to capture that idea.
And then since then it’s evolved to recognize
like structural affordability issues.
Like we have a housing crisis.
Child care costs have gone up like 32% since 2019
or something like that.
Elder care is $10,000 a month.
Education costs are sky high.
And so like there are reasons that people feel bad,
but then there’s this poll that came out
sort of detailing, you know, that 55% of people
think that we’re in our session,
49% of people think that the stock market
is at all time lows or is down on the year
and that 49% also think that unemployment
is at all time lows.
And so like there’s this aspect of the vibe session
where, okay, yes, there is an actual disconnect
between consumer sentiment and economic data
and some of that can be explained
by structural affordability.
And then I think another component of it
is explained by a lack of media literacy.
Like the stock market is up 12% on the year.
Unemployment is at a record low.
We’re not in our session.
I do think we are in a vibe session
just because it’s a rather tense time.
There’s a lot of uncertainty.
We’re going into an election.
Like it’s really hard to have quote unquote good vibes
during that.
I think another thing that I’ve been sort of thinking about
is like there’s this gap between online discourse
and then offline discourse.
So like air travel hit an all-time high
over Memorial Day weekend.
Like everybody’s flying everywhere.
People are out there spending money.
You can see it in the consumer spending metrics.
But if you go online, the discourse is negative.
People are feeling very bad.
And that’s kind of the other thing too.
It’s like there’s this bifurcation
between actual reality and then perceived reality
through the online sphere.
– There really is a disconnect.
And then I look at people of shitposting America.
You know, lowest inflation, biggest growth.
The factors are starting to growth.
And some of the factors that you talked about,
do you think our discourse has become more coarse?
Or do you think as someone who just understands
of your generation, what do you think is causing this?
Is it a move to online where we have bots, trolls,
a lack of civility?
Do you think kids are more prone to,
I don’t know, being depressed or anxious
’cause of helicopter parenting and social media?
But what has created a situation
where 55% of people my age feel very proud to be American,
but it’s only 18% of people under the age of 25?
– It’s really sad.
And I think that poll,
and of course you always take all surveys
with a grain of salt,
but that poll where, you know,
people think we’re in our session, we’re not.
They think it’s not going to sound and it’s not.
They think unemployment is really high, but it’s not.
It’s just like what’s happening.
And so I think a big part of it
is the media that people consume.
So younger people get a lot of their news from TikTok.
There’s a lot of surveys pointing that out,
all of data sources.
And like TikTok, the algorithm totally incentivizes you
to post negative things.
Like if you are saying that the world is ending,
you’re much more likely to get a million views
and if you’re like, everything’s perfect and good
and you should be fine.
I also think there’s a pressure to be anxious.
And I think like anxiousness is very normal.
Like we do have a lot of information below,
but if you’re not freaking out,
it means that you don’t care, right?
And so like there’s almost this performative anxiety
that comes up and that’s a loaded term.
But I do think that’s what it is,
is like, ’cause I get yelled at in my comments too
for not caring about the state of affairs,
but like there’s an element of truth
that you have to recognize when you talk about the economy.
Like you can’t say the stock market is down and it’s not.
But if you’re saying that things are good,
people are like, well, you just don’t care about anything.
Like you’re just lying to us.
And it really creates this strange environment.
So I think it’s media,
the consumption of certain types of media,
and then how you have to be perceived
in the online world is in a state of anxiety.
– Well, you’re talking about,
I’m naturally fits me like a glove
’cause I’m a glass half empty kind of guy
and serve from anger and depression.
So I feed right into this, guys.
But whenever I talk about,
just the exceptional performance of a stock
or the markets touching all-time highs,
I was like, well, typical boomer who,
most the real economy,
most of us got don’t get to invest in stocks.
It’s like, you get shamed
and you’re sort of perceived as non empathetic
if you’re not catastrophizing all the time
and talking about the worst possible outcome for everybody.
Speaking of this type of,
I don’t know, looking through the world
with gray color glasses,
talk a little bit about dollar doomerism.
– Yeah, I mean, a lot of people think
that the U.S. dollar is no longer going
to be the reserve currency.
That discourse hasn’t been as popular
over the past few months,
it’s the U.S. is kind of the interaction
and many back turning in,
has been able to pass legislation finally.
But yeah, people are kind of like betting
on the downfall of the U.S.
by saying that the U.S. dollar
would be reserve currency more.
So you saw a lot of that kind of like post COVID,
the first few years after the pandemic,
there was a paper from the IMF that refuted that.
It was like, no, it’s not gonna switch over
to China or Russia as being the reserve currency
of the world, it’s probably just gonna be,
if anything, a basket of mixed currencies.
But yeah, I mean, it’s sort of going back
to like what you asked about
with like why do young people feel so bad
about like why are they not proud to be American?
Like you can kind of see that through people
being like the dollar is not gonna be the reserve currency.
Like that’s a bet against the United States.
– You brought up something
or you’re aware of something that we talk a lot about here
and that is inflation and a lack of prosperity.
We believe can be reverse engineered partially
to concentration and the sort of oligopolization
of our economy.
Four companies control 85% of the US beef market,
four companies control 80% of the soy market,
three companies, 70% of pasta,
three companies, 72% of the cereal market.
I mean, there’s more of a comment than a question.
I think you agree.
But it appears that people aren’t focusing enough on this.
How else should we be thinking about this
as it relates to inflation?
– Yeah, I mean, as a doctor,
Isabella Weber has written a really great research paper
on this, sort of like how companies
may be passing costs off to consumers through higher prices.
And monopolies are like the key way to do that, right?
Like if you don’t have any competition,
it’s much easier to push prices through.
And I think like to counter that example,
we’re kind of seeing that, you know,
McDonald’s is lowering the prices on their food.
Like they’re finally offering a $5 meal
because companies like Domino’s have had reward programs
that people have been flocking to.
And so that shows that if you do have competition
within the corporate space,
like companies are going to respond
and therefore lower their prices.
But I think a lot of the pain of the consumer
has been through companies like Kraft Heinz raising prices,
just putting a lot of Nestle raising prices
because they’re able to.
People have to buy the things that Nestle and Kraft
will more or less have to buy P&G.
They have to buy like paper towels and toothpaste.
And so those companies, I do think are responsible
for some elements of inflation that we’re experiencing.
And then I think they’re also responsible
for the quote unquote bad vibes.
Like when you, like I go to the grocery store
and I’m like, whoa, okay.
Like that was an expensive trip.
And I don’t feel great about that and it sucks.
And that like the grocery bill that you get
and then the gas price that you pay
are the two main ways that consumers interact
with the economy.
And so if corporations are able to raise prices
and do it without any thought other than profit,
it can be very harmful to the consumer.
– I’m just, I love, just as we wrap up here,
we’re trying to be, we’re purposefully,
or I would say I’m personally trying to be
a little bit more optimistic.
And I write a lot about the challenges facing young people
and how it warrants more attention and more investment,
but also believe that as kids come out of commencement
that they do have agency.
And I want to bring on more people like yourself
that have demonstrated that type of agency.
When I was getting out of college,
I knew I was interested in finance and economics.
You could either go to an investment bank
and get into an analyst program,
which is exceptionally competitive.
You could become a stockbroker.
I got my series seven and basically being a stockbroker
was calling all of your friends’ parents
and asking them to buy stocks through your ridiculous fees.
Or you could go back to graduate school
and try and become an economist.
I mean, there really weren’t that many on-ramps
to having influence in the markets.
Can you talk a little bit about how you,
you kind of your path and how you found agency
and became, I hate to use the word influencer,
became someone who is a strong voice in this
and appears to be making a nice living
and has developed a rewarding career.
Talk about your backstory and your path
to how you got where you are now.
– Yeah, I grew up in Kentucky
and I thought I’d be stuck in Kentucky forever.
And it’s not a bad place to be.
It just, you know, there wasn’t the opportunities
that I wanted there.
And so I went to school in Kentucky
for the scholarship program that I was on
and all throughout college, you know,
tutored in economics and had a blog
talking about my options trading.
And so I’d always been sort of in the online sphere.
And then I went out to a capital group in Los Angeles
and worked on the buy side for about a year and a half.
But six months after I graduated, COVID happened.
And so like the way that I thought about work
was it changed quite a bit.
‘Cause, you know, all of a sudden you’re faced with death
and you’re like, oh, well, what do I really want
to be doing?
And for me, it was education,
specifically economics education.
And so I started making videos around game shop.
And, you know, a lot of things sort of influence
like why I wanted to focus on economics education.
Number one is because I don’t think
we get people a fair shake at all
when it comes to understanding the economy.
Like it’s something that we all exist in.
Like, you know, I bought a coffee this morning,
like that’s an economic transaction.
The jobs that we have are economic, you know, interfaces.
Everything that we do is tied to the economy somehow,
but we pretend that we don’t need to understand it.
We pretend that we don’t need to know what the Fed does
and how it influences interest rates.
And we don’t need to know the depth of it,
but we need to at least understand how it could impact us.
I think that it creates a lot of confusion
and a lot of anger when people live in a system
that they don’t understand.
And so I kind of set off, you know, partly because I felt
like I wanted younger Kailas have access to the stuff.
And, you know, if there’s a younger Kaila out there
I want to help her.
But then I just think it’s really important
that we understand how the economy works and functions.
And that’s why I wrote the book and make the videos
is because I think it’s just, I think it’s super important.
– So what advice would you have for someone
whether it’s an economics or another domain,
they want to get kind of this five wheel going
that you have books, videos.
What has surprised you to the upside?
If you were advising yourself two or three years ago,
you leave the capital group, you’re not working
for a corporation, trying to build your own brand,
your own small media company, if you will.
What advice hacks would you give to somebody who says,
“All right, I really want to get into,
“I want to be an influencer or make money in child psychology.”
And what, what hacks, what advice can you give to people?
– I mean, I think the biggest hack is caring a lot.
That sounds so silly, but like you have to, you have to care.
I actually get stopped by my friends
if I talk about the economy too much
because it’s like, it’s something
that I’m really passionate about.
And so like, if we’re out to dinner,
I’ll just be like, “Did you all see the bed today?”
And they’re like, “Not right now.”
And so I do think you have to have like a deep care
for what you’re talking about.
And you have to really want it.
Like, you know, it’s really bumpy
starting your own business and it’s really scary.
Like if this didn’t work out for me,
there, you know, I would have failed
and like there was nowhere to go.
And so I think there’s an element of drive
that you have to have.
And you have, yeah, yeah, yeah, here’s a big part of it.
I was scared, I was scared silly.
I mean, it’s like funny now looking back on it
’cause everything worked out,
but I can think of exact moments where I could have quit
and like could have stopped and could have given up
and you just have to push through that.
And I would say that that would be the biggest advice
is like caring a lot and working through fear
the best you can.
– What about tactically?
What platforms have made money for you?
Where have you gotten the greatest return on investment
in terms of raising awareness?
Which platforms have had the lowest ROI?
– Previous Twitter before the new owner came in
was where I got a lot of traction
because there’s a lot of amazing finance
and economics people on there.
And Instagram has been very good with Reels and Discovery.
I’m really known for TikToks,
but I actually don’t have that big of a platform on TikTok.
And I think that TikTok is dying.
And then I have a newsletter as well.
– You think TikTok is dying?
– Yeah, I think it’s kind of good.
Oh, I think it’s just gonna be legislated away.
I think somebody’s gonna buy it maybe,
but I think that we’re slapping tariffs on China.
There’s no way they’re gonna let that app
continue to exist.
I think it’ll be a post-election thing,
like spending on who gets elected.
But yeah, yeah, I think that that’s gonna go away.
– So I’m off at Twitter, just ’cause I don’t,
I don’t wanna paint that guy’s fence.
What has happened for you at Twitter?
– It’s been sad.
I really loved Twitter and I still learn a lot on there,
but I work more than I post now.
They’re still like really amazing economists
and like really great thinkers,
but you can see the influence of Elon on the platform
and the algorithmic incentives are toward doomerism
and like the bad kind where people are questioning reality
and painting all sorts of colors on stuff
that maybe shouldn’t be painted, whatever.
But yeah, I think that’s a,
it’s been sad to watch the decay of a platform,
but it makes sense.
– And the internet age, everything turns over so quickly
that good times can only last for so long
in certain places.
– It’s interesting, I tell people,
I would have naturally gone to TikTok as a place
to over-invest and it’s interesting to hear your perspective.
If someone was gonna pick one platform
to over-invest in right now
to try and build a big brand footprint,
what platform would you suggest?
– I mean, I think TikTok still has discoverability,
but Reels is now trying to compete with TikTok
in a really big way
and I think their discoverability
has improved tremendously.
So I think Instagram actually has become
a very good app to build a following one.
– What about YouTube?
– YouTube’s hard.
I haven’t even really figured out YouTube actually.
I think that you have to kind of play
to the rules of the algorithm.
MrBeast is like very good at this
and which is why he has such a big platform,
but you have to have like the right titles
and the right thumbnail.
And I think that long form is just very hard
to capture people within.
And they are investing a lot in YouTube shorts
and you can post shorts and I think do pretty well.
But yeah, I think long form is just hard
to get discovered going.
– So Kyla, you know why we invited you on this podcast?
– Why was that?
– ‘Cause you’re very impressive.
(Kyla laughs)
– Oh, thanks.
– I’ve thought to myself,
we have all these financial experts on
and they all are the same goddamn person.
They’re all old guys on CMBC.
And I think it’s great
that you’ve managed to establish this following.
And when I hear you speak,
I’m like, “Gas, this person just gets it.”
So we’re hoping that you’re gonna come back on
and be a regular guest.
But you really are,
I was really inspired when I saw your content.
I just thought it was so puncturing
and I don’t know, down to earth and relatable.
So well done.
– Thank you.
Yeah, that’s the whole goal is to make accessible content.
Like that was the goal of the book.
Like there’s 60 illustrations in there.
Like it doesn’t need to be as complicated as we make it.
And I think that makes it so scary
is like we make it so scary.
And it is really just like nice, I think,
to have somebody talking at you, I guess,
about like the economy.
There isn’t a lot of that
because there’s a lot of gatekeeping as you know.
And yeah, I’m glad that it is helping people.
– Well, I think it is.
Kyla Scanlon is a writer,
video creator and podcaster who focuses
on educating her audience about the economy
and the financial markets.
Her debut book in this economy,
“How Money and Markets Really Work” is out now.
She joins us from a WeWork in,
are you in New York or in Brooklyn?
Where are you?
– No, I’m in New York City, Manhattan.
– Oh, nice.
Well, it’s great to be here.
And thanks for your good work, Kyla.
– Yeah, thank you so much.
– We’ll be right back.
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(upbeat music)
– I’m Claire Parker.
– And I’m Ashley Hamilton.
– And this is Celebrity Memoir Book Club.
– A podcast that says what if your must read book list
and your absolutely must not read book list got married?
If you’ve ever seen a celebrity memoir and thought,
what could they possibly write about?
– The answer a lot of times is nothing.
So we have to make up the jokes to fill in the blanks.
– Yeah, so if you want to know what’s in there,
but you don’t want to waste your eyeballs strength,
we’re going to tell you what’s in it.
So hop along for the ride.
– Who are we?
We are two best friends and two comedians
who had enough time to read a full book a week.
– We live in New York,
so we think we know everything about everything
and we’re going to tell you what’s what.
– And if we’re wrong, that’s part of the fun.
– So if you are interested in celebrities,
in literature, in a good time with your pals,
tune into Celebrity Memoir Book Club.
– The podcast where we read the book
so that you don’t have to.
– You can listen to Celebrity Memoir Book Club
wherever you get your podcasts.
– I mean, can’t wait to hang.
(upbeat music)
– Algebra of happiness, kissing.
I grew up in a household that had very little affection.
Occasionally my mom literally couldn’t help herself
and she would hug me and occasionally kiss me,
but they were both raised with an absence of affection.
They’re European and there just wasn’t a lot of that
in my household and my dad who was out of the house
and gone when I was eight after my parents split up.
He was never very affectionate.
Occasionally when he felt good about me,
he’d mess up my hair which was his way of being affectionate
and I don’t resent him for it
’cause I think he grew up in a household
with actually not only a lack of affection,
his sister told me later in life
that he was actually physically abused by his father
pretty severely and I thought to myself,
Jesus Christ, he never brought it up to me.
Can you imagine the person you’re supposed to trust the most
is supposed to be your protector, it abuses you?
Anyway, back to kissing.
I kiss my boys, I try to kiss my boys every day.
My youngest still lets me, my oldest does not,
that’s fine, he’s going through puberty,
doesn’t want his dad kissing him,
but there’s so many benefits to kissing.
The active kissing inspires the body to produce endorphins
which is kind of the happiness hormone,
meaning that both the kisser and the kiss
feel happy and relaxed.
Kissing also helps to reduce the body’s cortisol levels,
thus indirectly reducing stress.
And they’re even saying now there’s evidence showing
that married couples who kiss each other
whenever they see each other and say goodbye
are much less likely to get divorced
or much more likely to stay together.
Now whether it’s correlation or causation,
who knows maybe that people want to kiss each other,
stay together longer, but.
I’m trying to lean into that.
I’ve actually been kissing some of my male friends,
I kiss them on the cheek and they’re a little taken aback,
but I think they understand the gesture
and then I’m just trying to say I really like you.
So anyways, kiss your children as long as you can,
kiss your partner as often as you can,
but I’m gonna take back affection.
Men aren’t supposed to kiss, what bullshit?
It’s good for you, it’s good for them.
It says I love you, it says I care about you.
It says I want to express affection
in regard that you’re singular,
I don’t kiss a lot of people, but I choose you.
I choose to kiss you.
(upbeat music)
This episode was produced by Caroline Shagren.
Jennifer Sanchez is our associate producer
and Drew Burroughs is our technical director.
Thank you for listening to the Prop G Pod
from the Vox Media Podcast Network.
We will catch you on Saturday
for No Mercy, No Malice as read by George Hahn
and please follow our Prop G Markets Pod
wherever you get your pods for new episodes
every Monday and Thursday.
Please, if you can right now and you enjoyed the show,
go to Prop G Markets and subscribe.
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– Episode 304304 is here.
America, belonging to West Virginia, in 1904,
the first subway line opened in New York City,
my favorite fast-food restaurant, True Story.
I found out that my penis is not as big as a subway sandwich.
Also, I’ve been banned from subway.
Go, go, go!
– Welcome to the 304th episode of the Prop G-Pod.
304?
I don’t remember any of this.
Like, I have a sensation, I have a feeling around this,
but I don’t, if someone said, “What happened in episode 285?”
I’d be like, “Geez, I just don’t know.”
In today’s episode, we speak with Kyla Scanlon,
a writer, video creator, and podcaster who focuses
on educating our audience about the economy
and the financial markets.
We hear all about Kyla’s new book in this economy,
“How Money and Markets Really Work.”
I love this conversation.
Kyla brings a refreshing perspective
that we think you’ll enjoy.
I’m also just inspired by these influencers
under the word of thought leaders that weaponize
or leverage new mediums, and one of the wonderful things
about these new mediums, including TikTok,
which is the ultimate propaganda tool
and should be divested, but having said that,
you do discover a lot of fascinating people,
and Kyla bubbled up in my feed.
TikTok, what bubbles up in my feed?
Great Danes, chiropractors aggressively adjusting
out of people.
Who do I be fascinated by that?
I didn’t know.
And then people talking about social justice issues
who also happen to be ridiculously hot.
I knew that one.
I knew that one.
Okay, what’s happening?
Back in London, but I’m headed to Cannes this weekend,
or Cannes, whatever it’s called, Nice.
So Cannes Lions is the creativity festival.
It’s where the less cool people,
but semi-cool sort of aspirational cool people go.
The true ballers go to the Cannes Film Festival.
That intimidates me.
I could never go to that.
I’m not dialed in.
I don’t love movies.
I just wouldn’t, I would not know what to do
at the Cannes Film Festival.
So fortunately, no one has invited me.
So the world, the world is at peace with these decisions.
Anyways, Cannes Lions used to be
where ad executives would go,
collect awards and then find other jobs.
And then the entire economy,
their entire ad world shifted to Google and Metta
and all the new guys.
And slowly, but surely they took over the beach
or the Quassats and you get these amazing parties.
The best parties are at Spotify.
I don’t get invited to the Metta parties.
Go figure, go figure.
I mean, I’m hoping I can go and see Sheryl Sandberg
figure out a way to at scale
depress tens of millions of teenage girls.
I think that would be a great event on the beach.
Maybe they could do that with like a barbecue or something.
Anyway, shocker, they don’t invite me.
Although I will say this, I will say this.
I stay at one of my favorite hotels in the world,
the Hotel Ducat, which has $34 lattes.
And I feel very European
and I put on a big black pair of sunglasses
and I go to that slim errands like beach or the pool.
And I put in an unlit cigarette in my mouth
and I put on a speedo, not true,
but anyways, I dream of putting on a speedo.
And anytime a woman walks by me, I go,
I take down my glasses and I’m like,
Jackie, marry me.
I make you very happy woman.
That’s my impression of Aristotle and Asos.
Ask your parents.
Anyways, what I also do for a total baller moment
is I Google Zodiac or boat rental
and I find some French guy who speaks modest English
and for like a hundred or 200 euros,
which is a lot of money, but it’s worth it.
He comes in some Zodiac,
usually almost always smoking a cigarette,
picks me up at the Hotel Ducat
and then bombs me in to the croissettes
and I always ask him to dump me at the pier
at or at the jetty, if you will,
of either Google or Metta Beach.
I am not invited to either of those places.
They know who I am and they don’t like me,
but I roll in like I’m fucking James Bond
in a tuxedo about to, I don’t know, crash a party
and kill some, I don’t know, nemesis uninvited.
That is how you roll at Cannes Lions.
By the way, if you’re at Cannes Lions
and you see me, please come up and say hi.
I’m desperate for other people’s affirmation.
I’m actually quite friendly, but I need to warn you,
I’m much less impressive in person.
On this show, you’re not really meeting me on this show.
You’re meeting a representative of me
that’s much more charming, interesting, smart,
and funny than I am in real life.
But if you’re looking to meet someone
who’s mildly depressed and angry and quite intense
and actually quite quiet, please come up and say hi.
Unfortunately, I will not be with my dog.
I used to take Leia almost everywhere
and now it is getting just too much
to kind of cart a great dane around continental Europe.
So the dog is staying here
and the big dog is headed to Cannes Lions.
So stop by and say hi.
Okay, moving on to some news.
Apple AI is finally here, but don’t call it AI.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
Call it Apple Intelligence,
which will be integrated throughout Apple’s ecosystem.
Devices, software, apps to do everything
that AI has promised, maybe not everything,
make our lives easier and more efficient.
Apple is even partnering with ChatGPT to answer
user queries that Siri can’t deliver.
By the way, if Apple doesn’t wanna call it Apple AI,
and we have to call it Apple Intelligence,
then I’m not calling ChatGPT, ChatGPT anymore.
I’m calling it what it really is, Microsoft AI.
Much of Apple’s forthcoming features are fairly basic
when you think about the grand scheme of AI,
sorting through notifications, generating images,
writing tools, assisting with personal tasks,
meeting schedules, et cetera.
And as per usual, Apple is playing up its commitment
to privacy.
So let me share my thoughts.
Let me share my thoughts.
The, I like this, it took me a while to get here,
but I’ve been processing here and I like this.
I think this is the exact opposite.
This is the zag to the zig of the mixed reality headset,
which was a bunch of jazz hands.
It’s gonna change the world.
Ooh, you’re gonna see a train set in 3D.
Who the fuck cares?
Ooh, a movie, a movie.
Wow, it’s a 3D movie.
Well, okay, do you really wanna put on a headset
to watch a movie and feel nauseous?
I just don’t get the whole headset thing.
At what point does someone ring a bell
and tell me I was right,
that these headsets are ridiculously stupid
and nothing but consensual hallucination
between the market and Mark Zuckerberg,
that he knew what the fuck he was doing
and he was a true visionary around hardware.
And in order to, in order to have a call option
in case he was right,
Tim Cook Greenlit, probably a billion dollars in spending
for the mixed reality headset,
they will let it die his slow death,
similar to the Hermes Apple Watch.
Isn’t that cute?
Isn’t that cute?
Makes no fucking sense.
Big press release.
And then we just kinda let it go away.
We let it go away.
And here’s the bottom line.
It’s the boring shit that moves shareholder value.
And I’m trying to coin a term, not generative AI,
but integrative AI.
What do I mean by that?
You have a lot of data on your phone.
You have a lot of contacts.
A lot of utility.
A lot of information that could be integrated into an LLM,
not to enhance your media experience
or answer every question,
but just do the following.
Make your life easier.
On Sunday, I was sending my dad a video
and I wanted to find this great picture of me
and his grandsons at the UEFA finals.
And I couldn’t find the goddamn thing.
And one of the things that Apple Intelligence is promising
is to make searching your photos much easier
and also to have a huge upgrade
to what is the front end of an LLM or AI
or in this case, Apple Intelligence.
See above Microsoft AI, not chat GBT,
is to make it much easier
and to integrate a billion people’s data
per their permission, right?
That’s a key consideration here.
I mean, they’ve done so much right here
as I think about it.
First off, they’ve said, okay,
the AI brand has gotten weird and dangerous
and oh, it’s gonna kill us.
Oh, it’s gonna save us.
Oh, it doesn’t know what it’s doing.
Oh, these answers make no goddamn sense.
Oh, wait, Scarlett, there’s just so much weird shit
surrounding AI.
Oh, this person who supposedly knows AI says
it’s gonna kill us.
It just feels kind of, oh, how am I using it?
I don’t know, I’m not using it,
but I’ll buy more Nvidia.
The whole space is getting,
I don’t know, it feels like you read too much about AI.
You kind of wanna shower or kill yourself
or find a time machine and go back in time
such that you can find yourself, kill yourself
and then do sort of like a murder suicide.
Is that dark?
That’s pretty fucking dark, isn’t it?
Anyway, anyway, how do I use AI?
I use it to plan weekends with my 13-year-old son.
Well, I said, what are we doing this weekend?
And we type in this crazy prompt
to try and find something fun to do in London.
And I gotta be honest, I think it does an amazing job.
I also love Adobe Firefly,
the AI that has taken a different approach
and this is smart.
They have licensed all of the content
or it’s their own content
so they don’t have to worry about what happened at,
I think it was, I don’t know if it was Google or Llama
or Joey Bagadon, it’s AI where they typed in a prompt
and it literally brought a verbatim of Forbes article
and it’s like, well, okay, are you paying Forbes?
No, they’re not.
They’re not.
So they’ve said, we need to get away from this brand,
make it more about privacy, make it more about utility,
make it more about incremental change,
make it friendlier, upgrade Siri,
which is arguably one of the worst brands in tech
from Apple or more sub-brands, if you will,
and make it more, I don’t know, make it more UTEL,
so to speak.
Of course, Elon Musk had to weigh in
and say that he’s not gonna use it, who knows.
It was down 2% and then it was up 5% today,
so I don’t know exactly what that means.
I think people are starting to figure out
that the second mouse here
or the biggest second mouse in history is Apple,
what do I mean by that?
Innovation is actually a terrible shareholder strategy.
That’s right, that’s right, you heard it here.
My colleague at NYU is now at Dartmouth
at the Tuck School, did breakthrough research
that would just open my eyes,
that it’s not the innovator that makes money,
it’s the second or the third company that comes in
and lets them spend a ton of money and waste a ton,
and then says, oh, okay, you spent a ton of money
trying to come up with an MP3 player,
we’ll now come in and make it easier to use.
Oh, graphic, user interface, Xerox PARC,
thanks very much, this works great,
you don’t know how to use it, we’ll commercialize
and make a shit ton of money.
So that, I think, is what Apple’s trying to do here.
They’ve been thoughtful, they’ve been kind of laying
in the reeds and I said, okay, we’re ready,
this is what’s good about AI,
this is what’s bad about AI,
and they come in and said, okay, what’s bad about it
is the brand, what’s bad about it is promising
or over-promising and under-delivering,
we’re gonna start small and go incremental,
the absolute opposite of the mixed reality headset.
I like this, I think it makes sense, keep in mind,
keep in mind, it’s the boring stuff that makes you money,
it’s the mundane stuff that moves shareholder value.
We’ll be right back for our conversation
with Kyla Scanlon.
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– Welcome back.
Here’s our conversation with Kyla Scanlon,
a writer, video creator, podcaster, and author of,
In This Economy, How Money and Markets Really Work.
Kyla, where does this podcast find you?
– I’m in New York City right now.
– And you’re at a WeWork with a fan in the background.
Where’s Adam Newman?
– Yeah, oh, he’s not involved anymore.
He’s focused on real estate now, right?
– Yeah, I’ve heard he’s doing flow
or something right about this.
Okay, so we’re making an effort
to bring in young influencers.
I have a tendency to find people my age,
boomers who are on CNBC,
and so you’re one of our first outreach
to someone we found.
I think we found you on TikTok.
Anyways, your new book, In This Economy,
explores how money and markets really work.
Walk us through what you believe
are the biggest misconceptions about the U.S. economy.
– Yeah, I mean, I think that’s the issue
is that a lot of everything’s kind of
misconception right now.
I think a lot of people have a frustration
with how the economy is functioning,
like the labor market, inflation, et cetera.
A lot of people think that inflation going down
means that prices should go down,
but we’ve been dealing with a pressure
to curb inflation, so everybody wants prices to go down.
There’s rolling recessions in tech and finance,
so people extrapolate that
to the broader labor market as well.
So I think there’s a lot of misconceptions,
and the goal of the book is just to be a toolbox
to understand the economy.
Everything that you need to know about inflation, GDP,
all the terminology and how it applies to you
without all the theory that goes into it.
– What do most people get wrong
about money and the markets?
– One of my favorite charts is the chart
from the Federal Reserve.
It’s called the Distribution of Financial Assets,
and it shows that the bottom 50% have all of their wealth
inside of real estate,
and the top 10% have their wealth
inside of stocks and business ownership.
And so I think a lot of people think
that homeownership is sort of the path to wealth,
and I think historically, it could have been,
but we kind of need to rethink what homeownership means,
right?
It’s very confusing, though,
how to be both a speculative investment
and then also a place that you need to live.
And so I think that’s kind of,
it’s not necessarily what people get wrong
about the economy,
but I think it’s the thing that is most harmful
is we view housing as the way to wealth
when maybe it really shouldn’t be.
– But it’s an housing to a certain extent.
I’ve been thinking a lot about how to build wealth.
And one of the features of observations I would have
is that it is very difficult for people to build wealth
with anything they can get their hands on.
What do I mean by that?
99% of people, I believe,
will spend everything within their grasp.
And that’s why these four savings programs
or options where you get one big lumpy hit
or you sell a company,
the big hits you weren’t expecting
’cause regular cash in your hand is very hard to hold onto
given all the temptations that’s offered
by in a capitalist society to a certain extent
isn’t housing sort of forced savings
’cause people don’t want to be evicted.
So it forces them to make that kind of investment,
some of which goes into equity in the home.
– Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I think housing is definitely one path to that.
I think if you look at that chart, though,
like the clear answer to how to build wealth,
if you just are following the path
of what rich people have already done
is some form of stock ownership
and some form of building a business,
whether that be in place or option programs
or just actually building your own business.
So I think housing is great
in terms of the forced savings aspect, as you’ve mentioned.
But we have this expectation
that house prices always go up,
but from 1860 to 1960,
home prices went up by 0.06%.
And so I think we just kind of have a messy conception
and then it creates a lot of economic foreboding
when people feel like they can’t achieve
quote unquote American dream
because it’s the only way that they know how to build wealth.
– I think that’s a great point.
Actually, Philip Schiller of the K. Schiller index says
if you take into account maintenance
that the housing market has not been nearly the asset class
that the people claim it is.
In the book, you write people are not static entities
but dynamic beings with evolving needs and aspirations
and growing economy should reflect that.
When you look at our economy,
what areas do you think need the most attention right now?
– I mean, I think that we’ve done a really, really good job
at focusing on manufacturing,
the Chips Act, the IRA, the IAJA,
all of those have really invested in American manufacturing
and have enabled like, you know, fab factories
to be built in Arizona.
But I think like the big thing,
and you’ve done a very good job talking about this
is like sort of putting young people in a path.
I think that a lot of people feel stuck in their jobs
or feel like they’re not able to pursue
as you would say they’re telling.
But I think that’s kind of where we need help
is that we have a whole generation of people
that are stuck and the labor market is sort of funny.
Like there are these ruling recessions in tech and finance.
And so I think it’s just,
it’s a reallocation of capital
that will enable new jobs to come out.
I think that’s what needs to be done.
Yeah.
– You coined this great term, vibe session.
What is it and are we experiencing it?
– A vibe session is a disconnect between consumer sentiment
and economic data.
And I wrote this piece back in July, 2022
and it turned into a New York Times opinion piece.
And everybody kind of latched onto it
because, you know, the economic data was really good
during that time, like GDP was improving,
labor market was strong, inflation was going down,
but people were still feeling really bad
if you looked at sentiment metrics.
And so that term is meant to capture that idea.
And then since then it’s evolved to recognize
like structural affordability issues.
Like we have a housing crisis.
Child care costs have gone up like 32% since 2019
or something like that.
Elder care is $10,000 a month.
Education costs are sky high.
And so like there are reasons that people feel bad,
but then there’s this poll that came out
sort of detailing, you know, that 55% of people
think that we’re in our session,
49% of people think that the stock market
is at all time lows or is down on the year
and that 49% also think that unemployment
is at all time lows.
And so like there’s this aspect of the vibe session
where, okay, yes, there is an actual disconnect
between consumer sentiment and economic data
and some of that can be explained
by structural affordability.
And then I think another component of it
is explained by a lack of media literacy.
Like the stock market is up 12% on the year.
Unemployment is at a record low.
We’re not in our session.
I do think we are in a vibe session
just because it’s a rather tense time.
There’s a lot of uncertainty.
We’re going into an election.
Like it’s really hard to have quote unquote good vibes
during that.
I think another thing that I’ve been sort of thinking about
is like there’s this gap between online discourse
and then offline discourse.
So like air travel hit an all-time high
over Memorial Day weekend.
Like everybody’s flying everywhere.
People are out there spending money.
You can see it in the consumer spending metrics.
But if you go online, the discourse is negative.
People are feeling very bad.
And that’s kind of the other thing too.
It’s like there’s this bifurcation
between actual reality and then perceived reality
through the online sphere.
– There really is a disconnect.
And then I look at people of shitposting America.
You know, lowest inflation, biggest growth.
The factors are starting to growth.
And some of the factors that you talked about,
do you think our discourse has become more coarse?
Or do you think as someone who just understands
of your generation, what do you think is causing this?
Is it a move to online where we have bots, trolls,
a lack of civility?
Do you think kids are more prone to,
I don’t know, being depressed or anxious
’cause of helicopter parenting and social media?
But what has created a situation
where 55% of people my age feel very proud to be American,
but it’s only 18% of people under the age of 25?
– It’s really sad.
And I think that poll,
and of course you always take all surveys
with a grain of salt,
but that poll where, you know,
people think we’re in our session, we’re not.
They think it’s not going to sound and it’s not.
They think unemployment is really high, but it’s not.
It’s just like what’s happening.
And so I think a big part of it
is the media that people consume.
So younger people get a lot of their news from TikTok.
There’s a lot of surveys pointing that out,
all of data sources.
And like TikTok, the algorithm totally incentivizes you
to post negative things.
Like if you are saying that the world is ending,
you’re much more likely to get a million views
and if you’re like, everything’s perfect and good
and you should be fine.
I also think there’s a pressure to be anxious.
And I think like anxiousness is very normal.
Like we do have a lot of information below,
but if you’re not freaking out,
it means that you don’t care, right?
And so like there’s almost this performative anxiety
that comes up and that’s a loaded term.
But I do think that’s what it is,
is like, ’cause I get yelled at in my comments too
for not caring about the state of affairs,
but like there’s an element of truth
that you have to recognize when you talk about the economy.
Like you can’t say the stock market is down and it’s not.
But if you’re saying that things are good,
people are like, well, you just don’t care about anything.
Like you’re just lying to us.
And it really creates this strange environment.
So I think it’s media,
the consumption of certain types of media,
and then how you have to be perceived
in the online world is in a state of anxiety.
– Well, you’re talking about,
I’m naturally fits me like a glove
’cause I’m a glass half empty kind of guy
and serve from anger and depression.
So I feed right into this, guys.
But whenever I talk about,
just the exceptional performance of a stock
or the markets touching all-time highs,
I was like, well, typical boomer who,
most the real economy,
most of us got don’t get to invest in stocks.
It’s like, you get shamed
and you’re sort of perceived as non empathetic
if you’re not catastrophizing all the time
and talking about the worst possible outcome for everybody.
Speaking of this type of,
I don’t know, looking through the world
with gray color glasses,
talk a little bit about dollar doomerism.
– Yeah, I mean, a lot of people think
that the U.S. dollar is no longer going
to be the reserve currency.
That discourse hasn’t been as popular
over the past few months,
it’s the U.S. is kind of the interaction
and many back turning in,
has been able to pass legislation finally.
But yeah, people are kind of like betting
on the downfall of the U.S.
by saying that the U.S. dollar
would be reserve currency more.
So you saw a lot of that kind of like post COVID,
the first few years after the pandemic,
there was a paper from the IMF that refuted that.
It was like, no, it’s not gonna switch over
to China or Russia as being the reserve currency
of the world, it’s probably just gonna be,
if anything, a basket of mixed currencies.
But yeah, I mean, it’s sort of going back
to like what you asked about
with like why do young people feel so bad
about like why are they not proud to be American?
Like you can kind of see that through people
being like the dollar is not gonna be the reserve currency.
Like that’s a bet against the United States.
– You brought up something
or you’re aware of something that we talk a lot about here
and that is inflation and a lack of prosperity.
We believe can be reverse engineered partially
to concentration and the sort of oligopolization
of our economy.
Four companies control 85% of the US beef market,
four companies control 80% of the soy market,
three companies, 70% of pasta,
three companies, 72% of the cereal market.
I mean, there’s more of a comment than a question.
I think you agree.
But it appears that people aren’t focusing enough on this.
How else should we be thinking about this
as it relates to inflation?
– Yeah, I mean, as a doctor,
Isabella Weber has written a really great research paper
on this, sort of like how companies
may be passing costs off to consumers through higher prices.
And monopolies are like the key way to do that, right?
Like if you don’t have any competition,
it’s much easier to push prices through.
And I think like to counter that example,
we’re kind of seeing that, you know,
McDonald’s is lowering the prices on their food.
Like they’re finally offering a $5 meal
because companies like Domino’s have had reward programs
that people have been flocking to.
And so that shows that if you do have competition
within the corporate space,
like companies are going to respond
and therefore lower their prices.
But I think a lot of the pain of the consumer
has been through companies like Kraft Heinz raising prices,
just putting a lot of Nestle raising prices
because they’re able to.
People have to buy the things that Nestle and Kraft
will more or less have to buy P&G.
They have to buy like paper towels and toothpaste.
And so those companies, I do think are responsible
for some elements of inflation that we’re experiencing.
And then I think they’re also responsible
for the quote unquote bad vibes.
Like when you, like I go to the grocery store
and I’m like, whoa, okay.
Like that was an expensive trip.
And I don’t feel great about that and it sucks.
And that like the grocery bill that you get
and then the gas price that you pay
are the two main ways that consumers interact
with the economy.
And so if corporations are able to raise prices
and do it without any thought other than profit,
it can be very harmful to the consumer.
– I’m just, I love, just as we wrap up here,
we’re trying to be, we’re purposefully,
or I would say I’m personally trying to be
a little bit more optimistic.
And I write a lot about the challenges facing young people
and how it warrants more attention and more investment,
but also believe that as kids come out of commencement
that they do have agency.
And I want to bring on more people like yourself
that have demonstrated that type of agency.
When I was getting out of college,
I knew I was interested in finance and economics.
You could either go to an investment bank
and get into an analyst program,
which is exceptionally competitive.
You could become a stockbroker.
I got my series seven and basically being a stockbroker
was calling all of your friends’ parents
and asking them to buy stocks through your ridiculous fees.
Or you could go back to graduate school
and try and become an economist.
I mean, there really weren’t that many on-ramps
to having influence in the markets.
Can you talk a little bit about how you,
you kind of your path and how you found agency
and became, I hate to use the word influencer,
became someone who is a strong voice in this
and appears to be making a nice living
and has developed a rewarding career.
Talk about your backstory and your path
to how you got where you are now.
– Yeah, I grew up in Kentucky
and I thought I’d be stuck in Kentucky forever.
And it’s not a bad place to be.
It just, you know, there wasn’t the opportunities
that I wanted there.
And so I went to school in Kentucky
for the scholarship program that I was on
and all throughout college, you know,
tutored in economics and had a blog
talking about my options trading.
And so I’d always been sort of in the online sphere.
And then I went out to a capital group in Los Angeles
and worked on the buy side for about a year and a half.
But six months after I graduated, COVID happened.
And so like the way that I thought about work
was it changed quite a bit.
‘Cause, you know, all of a sudden you’re faced with death
and you’re like, oh, well, what do I really want
to be doing?
And for me, it was education,
specifically economics education.
And so I started making videos around game shop.
And, you know, a lot of things sort of influence
like why I wanted to focus on economics education.
Number one is because I don’t think
we get people a fair shake at all
when it comes to understanding the economy.
Like it’s something that we all exist in.
Like, you know, I bought a coffee this morning,
like that’s an economic transaction.
The jobs that we have are economic, you know, interfaces.
Everything that we do is tied to the economy somehow,
but we pretend that we don’t need to understand it.
We pretend that we don’t need to know what the Fed does
and how it influences interest rates.
And we don’t need to know the depth of it,
but we need to at least understand how it could impact us.
I think that it creates a lot of confusion
and a lot of anger when people live in a system
that they don’t understand.
And so I kind of set off, you know, partly because I felt
like I wanted younger Kailas have access to the stuff.
And, you know, if there’s a younger Kaila out there
I want to help her.
But then I just think it’s really important
that we understand how the economy works and functions.
And that’s why I wrote the book and make the videos
is because I think it’s just, I think it’s super important.
– So what advice would you have for someone
whether it’s an economics or another domain,
they want to get kind of this five wheel going
that you have books, videos.
What has surprised you to the upside?
If you were advising yourself two or three years ago,
you leave the capital group, you’re not working
for a corporation, trying to build your own brand,
your own small media company, if you will.
What advice hacks would you give to somebody who says,
“All right, I really want to get into,
“I want to be an influencer or make money in child psychology.”
And what, what hacks, what advice can you give to people?
– I mean, I think the biggest hack is caring a lot.
That sounds so silly, but like you have to, you have to care.
I actually get stopped by my friends
if I talk about the economy too much
because it’s like, it’s something
that I’m really passionate about.
And so like, if we’re out to dinner,
I’ll just be like, “Did you all see the bed today?”
And they’re like, “Not right now.”
And so I do think you have to have like a deep care
for what you’re talking about.
And you have to really want it.
Like, you know, it’s really bumpy
starting your own business and it’s really scary.
Like if this didn’t work out for me,
there, you know, I would have failed
and like there was nowhere to go.
And so I think there’s an element of drive
that you have to have.
And you have, yeah, yeah, yeah, here’s a big part of it.
I was scared, I was scared silly.
I mean, it’s like funny now looking back on it
’cause everything worked out,
but I can think of exact moments where I could have quit
and like could have stopped and could have given up
and you just have to push through that.
And I would say that that would be the biggest advice
is like caring a lot and working through fear
the best you can.
– What about tactically?
What platforms have made money for you?
Where have you gotten the greatest return on investment
in terms of raising awareness?
Which platforms have had the lowest ROI?
– Previous Twitter before the new owner came in
was where I got a lot of traction
because there’s a lot of amazing finance
and economics people on there.
And Instagram has been very good with Reels and Discovery.
I’m really known for TikToks,
but I actually don’t have that big of a platform on TikTok.
And I think that TikTok is dying.
And then I have a newsletter as well.
– You think TikTok is dying?
– Yeah, I think it’s kind of good.
Oh, I think it’s just gonna be legislated away.
I think somebody’s gonna buy it maybe,
but I think that we’re slapping tariffs on China.
There’s no way they’re gonna let that app
continue to exist.
I think it’ll be a post-election thing,
like spending on who gets elected.
But yeah, yeah, I think that that’s gonna go away.
– So I’m off at Twitter, just ’cause I don’t,
I don’t wanna paint that guy’s fence.
What has happened for you at Twitter?
– It’s been sad.
I really loved Twitter and I still learn a lot on there,
but I work more than I post now.
They’re still like really amazing economists
and like really great thinkers,
but you can see the influence of Elon on the platform
and the algorithmic incentives are toward doomerism
and like the bad kind where people are questioning reality
and painting all sorts of colors on stuff
that maybe shouldn’t be painted, whatever.
But yeah, I think that’s a,
it’s been sad to watch the decay of a platform,
but it makes sense.
– And the internet age, everything turns over so quickly
that good times can only last for so long
in certain places.
– It’s interesting, I tell people,
I would have naturally gone to TikTok as a place
to over-invest and it’s interesting to hear your perspective.
If someone was gonna pick one platform
to over-invest in right now
to try and build a big brand footprint,
what platform would you suggest?
– I mean, I think TikTok still has discoverability,
but Reels is now trying to compete with TikTok
in a really big way
and I think their discoverability
has improved tremendously.
So I think Instagram actually has become
a very good app to build a following one.
– What about YouTube?
– YouTube’s hard.
I haven’t even really figured out YouTube actually.
I think that you have to kind of play
to the rules of the algorithm.
MrBeast is like very good at this
and which is why he has such a big platform,
but you have to have like the right titles
and the right thumbnail.
And I think that long form is just very hard
to capture people within.
And they are investing a lot in YouTube shorts
and you can post shorts and I think do pretty well.
But yeah, I think long form is just hard
to get discovered going.
– So Kyla, you know why we invited you on this podcast?
– Why was that?
– ‘Cause you’re very impressive.
(Kyla laughs)
– Oh, thanks.
– I’ve thought to myself,
we have all these financial experts on
and they all are the same goddamn person.
They’re all old guys on CMBC.
And I think it’s great
that you’ve managed to establish this following.
And when I hear you speak,
I’m like, “Gas, this person just gets it.”
So we’re hoping that you’re gonna come back on
and be a regular guest.
But you really are,
I was really inspired when I saw your content.
I just thought it was so puncturing
and I don’t know, down to earth and relatable.
So well done.
– Thank you.
Yeah, that’s the whole goal is to make accessible content.
Like that was the goal of the book.
Like there’s 60 illustrations in there.
Like it doesn’t need to be as complicated as we make it.
And I think that makes it so scary
is like we make it so scary.
And it is really just like nice, I think,
to have somebody talking at you, I guess,
about like the economy.
There isn’t a lot of that
because there’s a lot of gatekeeping as you know.
And yeah, I’m glad that it is helping people.
– Well, I think it is.
Kyla Scanlon is a writer,
video creator and podcaster who focuses
on educating her audience about the economy
and the financial markets.
Her debut book in this economy,
“How Money and Markets Really Work” is out now.
She joins us from a WeWork in,
are you in New York or in Brooklyn?
Where are you?
– No, I’m in New York City, Manhattan.
– Oh, nice.
Well, it’s great to be here.
And thanks for your good work, Kyla.
– Yeah, thank you so much.
– We’ll be right back.
Support for this show comes from Funrise.
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(upbeat music)
– I’m Claire Parker.
– And I’m Ashley Hamilton.
– And this is Celebrity Memoir Book Club.
– A podcast that says what if your must read book list
and your absolutely must not read book list got married?
If you’ve ever seen a celebrity memoir and thought,
what could they possibly write about?
– The answer a lot of times is nothing.
So we have to make up the jokes to fill in the blanks.
– Yeah, so if you want to know what’s in there,
but you don’t want to waste your eyeballs strength,
we’re going to tell you what’s in it.
So hop along for the ride.
– Who are we?
We are two best friends and two comedians
who had enough time to read a full book a week.
– We live in New York,
so we think we know everything about everything
and we’re going to tell you what’s what.
– And if we’re wrong, that’s part of the fun.
– So if you are interested in celebrities,
in literature, in a good time with your pals,
tune into Celebrity Memoir Book Club.
– The podcast where we read the book
so that you don’t have to.
– You can listen to Celebrity Memoir Book Club
wherever you get your podcasts.
– I mean, can’t wait to hang.
(upbeat music)
– Algebra of happiness, kissing.
I grew up in a household that had very little affection.
Occasionally my mom literally couldn’t help herself
and she would hug me and occasionally kiss me,
but they were both raised with an absence of affection.
They’re European and there just wasn’t a lot of that
in my household and my dad who was out of the house
and gone when I was eight after my parents split up.
He was never very affectionate.
Occasionally when he felt good about me,
he’d mess up my hair which was his way of being affectionate
and I don’t resent him for it
’cause I think he grew up in a household
with actually not only a lack of affection,
his sister told me later in life
that he was actually physically abused by his father
pretty severely and I thought to myself,
Jesus Christ, he never brought it up to me.
Can you imagine the person you’re supposed to trust the most
is supposed to be your protector, it abuses you?
Anyway, back to kissing.
I kiss my boys, I try to kiss my boys every day.
My youngest still lets me, my oldest does not,
that’s fine, he’s going through puberty,
doesn’t want his dad kissing him,
but there’s so many benefits to kissing.
The active kissing inspires the body to produce endorphins
which is kind of the happiness hormone,
meaning that both the kisser and the kiss
feel happy and relaxed.
Kissing also helps to reduce the body’s cortisol levels,
thus indirectly reducing stress.
And they’re even saying now there’s evidence showing
that married couples who kiss each other
whenever they see each other and say goodbye
are much less likely to get divorced
or much more likely to stay together.
Now whether it’s correlation or causation,
who knows maybe that people want to kiss each other,
stay together longer, but.
I’m trying to lean into that.
I’ve actually been kissing some of my male friends,
I kiss them on the cheek and they’re a little taken aback,
but I think they understand the gesture
and then I’m just trying to say I really like you.
So anyways, kiss your children as long as you can,
kiss your partner as often as you can,
but I’m gonna take back affection.
Men aren’t supposed to kiss, what bullshit?
It’s good for you, it’s good for them.
It says I love you, it says I care about you.
It says I want to express affection
in regard that you’re singular,
I don’t kiss a lot of people, but I choose you.
I choose to kiss you.
(upbeat music)
This episode was produced by Caroline Shagren.
Jennifer Sanchez is our associate producer
and Drew Burroughs is our technical director.
Thank you for listening to the Prop G Pod
from the Vox Media Podcast Network.
We will catch you on Saturday
for No Mercy, No Malice as read by George Hahn
and please follow our Prop G Markets Pod
wherever you get your pods for new episodes
every Monday and Thursday.
Please, if you can right now and you enjoyed the show,
go to Prop G Markets and subscribe.
[BLANK_AUDIO]
Kyla Scanlon, a writer, video creator, and podcaster, joins Scott to discuss her debut book, “In This Economy? How Money & Markets Really Work.” We hear about the term she coined, dollar doomerism, and why there is such a disconnect between what’s really happening and consumer sentiment.
Scott opens with his thoughts on Apple Intelligence.
Algebra of Happiness: take affection back.
Follow our podcast across socials @profgpod:
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