Kat Norton: Niche to Riches, How I Made Millions Teaching Excel on TikTok | E316

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0:01:13 I started selling my first Excel course, and two months later, it was bringing in more
0:01:15 revenue than my day job.
0:01:20 I love dancing, I love helping people, and I love Excel, so I was like, what would happen
0:01:23 if I put all of that inside of one video?
0:01:26 And that polarity is what really helped the videos take off.
0:01:30 Excel’s kind of sneaky, where like most people don’t understand the capabilities that it
0:01:31 has.
0:01:33 But really, like, it is a machine.
0:01:36 Our biggest revenue driver is webinars.
0:01:39 What’s your best strategies to invite people to the webinar?
0:01:40 So we do the majority of it through…
0:02:01 Young and Profiters, welcome back to the show, and today we have a super inspiring episode
0:02:07 because my guest today has achieved success and a resulting lifestyle that many of us
0:02:10 young entrepreneurs out there could only dream about.
0:02:17 Cat Norton, aka Miss Excel, generated $2 million annually in her business by the time she was
0:02:19 just 29 years old.
0:02:24 She bought her first home, and she has a hugely satisfying career and fulfilling career while
0:02:28 only working just four hours a day.
0:02:29 So what was her secret?
0:02:35 It was combining two of her biggest passions with social media savvy and a contagious energy.
0:02:40 In today’s episode, we’ll learn about how Cat transformed her love and passion for dancing
0:02:46 and spreadsheets together to then turn into a viral sensation on TikTok and parlay that
0:02:50 into a successful online business and course sales.
0:02:52 And we’re going to get her insights on how you can do it too.
0:02:56 I’m going to pick her brain on how she went viral on TikTok and Instagram.
0:03:00 We’re going to learn how she promotes her courses and strategies through webinars and
0:03:01 so much more.
0:03:02 I can’t wait to get into it.
0:03:07 Without further ado, here’s my conversation with Miss Excel, Cat Norton.
0:03:10 Cat, welcome to Young and Profiting Podcast.
0:03:12 Thank you so much for having me.
0:03:14 I’m really excited for this conversation.
0:03:20 So your story is one that a lot of entrepreneurs would envy, but I came to find out that your
0:03:25 story actually started with $100,000 in student debt and a job in corporate America that you
0:03:28 weren’t quite satisfied with.
0:03:31 So can you walk us through your early career journey and where you thought you were headed
0:03:33 at that time?
0:03:34 Absolutely.
0:03:40 So I graduated college back in 2016 with my MBA and I went right into the corporate path.
0:03:47 I was at a consulting firm and really quickly from when I got there, I realized that I had
0:03:51 some enhanced Excel skills because people started just directing questions toward me
0:03:53 of, “Hey, how do I do this?”
0:03:58 So for fun on the side, when I was on the bench for a week in consulting terms, it’s
0:04:04 when you don’t have a client for a week, I built out the most fun, engaging Excel
0:04:07 training for fun just on my computer.
0:04:12 And a managing director looked over my shoulder and was like, “What are you doing over there?”
0:04:16 And I was like, “Oh, you know, I kept tabs on everyone’s Excel questions and I started
0:04:18 building out this class just for fun.”
0:04:22 And they totally backed me and had me flying around the US right when I started as a new
0:04:26 consultant on the side of my job hosting these Excel trainings.
0:04:29 So I did that for five years before I actually made the business.
0:04:34 Or so it’s a passion project and a way to really help people at the company I was at.
0:04:40 It’s awesome that you got to learn and hone your craft as an Excel trainer on somebody
0:04:41 else’s dime.
0:04:43 So you ended up becoming an entrepreneur.
0:04:44 We actually have something in common.
0:04:49 We’re both COVID entrepreneurs who started our businesses in 2020.
0:04:51 What changed for you during the lockdown?
0:04:54 Why did you decide, “Okay, I want to try to step out on my own now?”
0:04:59 It really brought down the amount of travel I was doing, which gave me a lot more time
0:05:00 to reflect.
0:05:04 So before this, with my consulting job every week, I was traveling to a new client in a
0:05:07 new state and I did that for years.
0:05:11 So I was just running, running, running, not really analyzing my life and what I wanted
0:05:17 and I was a very creative being, but I wasn’t really pursuing anything too creative.
0:05:22 And that is when I found myself back in my childhood bedroom of my parents’ house, no
0:05:24 longer traveling, just working remotely.
0:05:29 So I had a lot more time on my hands because I would spend a lot of hours per week traveling
0:05:34 and that’s why I started doing a ton of inner work because I knew the version of myself
0:05:37 that I was at that time was not my highest self.
0:05:41 And I was like, “Okay, there’s definitely some things I need to work on here.”
0:05:48 So I dove deep into inner child work, shadow work, meditation, Dr. Joe Dispenza’s work
0:05:54 and really throughout that, over a two month period, every single day, I was just finding
0:05:57 ways to keep working on myself, leveling up.
0:06:02 And I’ll never forget, it was about two months into that, had no business.
0:06:07 I was in my childhood bedroom, I came running out one day and I was like, “Mom, I’m going
0:06:11 to be rich and famous soon, so I need you to prepare your nervous system for that.”
0:06:15 And I was like dead serious and she was like, “What?”
0:06:18 Like, “Okay, Kathleen, go clean your room.”
0:06:23 But every cell in my body already knew I was on some other timeline even though my current
0:06:26 reality looked nothing like it at all.
0:06:30 And then within a few weeks from there, I got the intuitive hit from Ms. Excel.
0:06:33 I remember downloading the TikTok app for the first time.
0:06:37 I was so against it, I was like, “Oh, I’m not going to waste time on TikTok this early
0:06:38 pandemic days.
0:06:41 It’s like I’m going to read a book.”
0:06:46 And then I opened it up and I started looking and was like, “Oh, it’s kind of weird.
0:06:48 There’s no Excel on TikTok.
0:06:53 Do people not like Microsoft Excel here or could this be something?”
0:06:55 And I had no idea how to use that at all.
0:07:00 I watched a few YouTube videos and was like, “Okay, figure out the buttons here.”
0:07:06 And I had a vision of what the video would look like right when the idea had come up
0:07:10 where I saw the Excel screen above my head, but me dancing below it.
0:07:15 And it was to that Drake song, the Tuzi slide, you know, left, right foot slide, to the left
0:07:17 and the right function in Excel.
0:07:21 So that’s really where I was like, “Okay, I want to see this vision come to life.
0:07:22 I’m such a creative.
0:07:26 I want to get this out of my brain and into something.”
0:07:30 And I watched the video back and I was like, “Oh, this is actually pretty cool.
0:07:31 Maybe I’ll make an account.
0:07:32 Maybe I’ll post it.”
0:07:34 And that’s really where it all began.
0:07:39 So basically, you had this viral idea that you said you downloaded it and a lot of it
0:07:41 had to do with your mindset work.
0:07:43 Can you actually go a little deeper on that?
0:07:45 You mentioned Joe just spends up.
0:07:49 What kind of inner work did you actually do and how did your mindset change before you
0:07:52 actually started posting on social media?
0:07:55 There are three main tools that I use, and I always like to preface this with these are
0:07:58 the ones that I use, but there are so many out there.
0:08:01 It’s really just a matter of finding one that resonates with you.
0:08:04 For me, I was diving into the work of Dr. Joe Dispenza.
0:08:08 I’ve been to a few of his retreats now, but at the time I was just reading his book, Breaking
0:08:11 the Habit of Being Yourself.
0:08:16 And that for me brought my scientific logical brain on board with law of attraction, manifestation,
0:08:18 how all of that works.
0:08:23 Because naturally, I’ve always been a bit of a mystic with that stuff, but there was
0:08:27 still this conscious part of my mind that was having a little trouble grasping like,
0:08:28 “Oh, think positive.
0:08:29 Good things will happen.”
0:08:31 I need a little bit of that science.
0:08:33 So for me, that book opened up a ton.
0:08:38 And then I was also doing Kundalini yoga, which is powerful yogic technology with breakfast
0:08:40 work and mantra.
0:08:43 So that was keeping my energy in a really good spot.
0:08:48 And then I started doing Lacy Phillips has a program called Tubi Magnetic.
0:08:52 And it’s a really structured way to do inner child work and shadow work.
0:08:56 So for me, Capricorn, I like my structure out here.
0:09:01 So I had a very structured way where I knew every day I was going in and working on certain
0:09:02 parts of my brain.
0:09:06 And then over time, due to neuroplasticity, I was able to go in and change some of the
0:09:10 neural pathways that were creating my current reality.
0:09:14 Because I wasn’t as much of a fan of where I was and knew there was somewhere else I
0:09:15 wanted to go.
0:09:20 So for me, that was my little trifecta to get my conscious mind on board, to have a
0:09:25 yoga practice, and to be just overhauling a lot of the patterns and limiting beliefs
0:09:27 that were keeping me in place.
0:09:32 So basically, you didn’t realize that you could really break out and become something
0:09:33 more.
0:09:38 And after doing this mindset work, you’ve actually got confidence to go out and do it.
0:09:43 So did you have any previous social media experience before you first started posting
0:09:44 on TikTok?
0:09:46 None at all.
0:09:51 So if you looked at my personal pages, you’d be like, “Okay, this girl is not an influencer.”
0:09:54 So I was really just learning by the seat of my pants.
0:09:58 I would read the comments people had, and I’m like, “Okay, what do they like?
0:09:59 What do they not like?”
0:10:03 But also for me, it really came down to authenticity.
0:10:07 So I love dancing, I love helping people, and I love Excel.
0:10:12 So I was like, “What would happen if I put all of that inside of one video, right?”
0:10:14 So for me, it was just an authentic expression.
0:10:15 It was cool.
0:10:19 It was something I had never seen anybody do before in terms of the Excel space especially,
0:10:24 but also in a lot of learning spaces, integrating dance, which is more native to the TikTok
0:10:27 app, but then layering in the educational piece.
0:10:32 And that polarity is what really helped the videos take off because if I just posted Excel
0:10:36 tip videos, people would have been like, “Cool, I don’t use Excel,” and moved on.
0:10:40 But so many people were commenting because they were like, “What the heck is this girl
0:10:41 doing?
0:10:42 She is dancing.
0:10:45 She’s doing the Susie slide, left to right function.
0:10:47 What is going on here?”
0:10:49 And that’s really what helped it go through the algorithm.
0:10:51 And I want to laser in on something you said.
0:10:54 We’ll go deeper on it later, but you talked about polarity.
0:11:01 So the fact that you combined two things that are really uncommon together, dance and Excel,
0:11:02 it gets people talking.
0:11:06 It gets people complaining, “Why are you dancing talking about Excel?”
0:11:10 Or some people will love it, and it gets people talking, which really drives everything up
0:11:11 in the algorithm.
0:11:15 Do you have anything else to say about polarity and how important it is for social media?
0:11:20 I think it’s a combination of polarity, because obviously you want a healthy polarity, right?
0:11:22 You don’t just want to say things to create polarity.
0:11:26 It needs to be something that’s actually authentic to you.
0:11:30 So I think it’s important to make sure that your mental health is in a great spot to be
0:11:33 able to receive what comes with polarity.
0:11:34 Right?
0:11:39 Because a lot of times when a video goes viral, negative comments are the majority of the
0:11:43 ones in there, because it’s being shown to people, it’s being shared, and that’s just
0:11:44 the nature of the planet, right?
0:11:48 We live on a polarity planet, there’s always positive and negative forces.
0:11:54 So it comes to making sure that your nervous system is able to hold the energy of what
0:11:57 is going to come through from creating the polarity in that content.
0:11:59 So for me, that was my biggest work.
0:12:04 I was constantly working on myself, because easily some people get some negative comments
0:12:05 and it’ll take them out.
0:12:07 They’ll be like, “I don’t want to post anymore.
0:12:11 People think this,” or you start having certain limiting beliefs that then are adjusting the
0:12:13 actions you’ll take.
0:12:17 So instead of following your intuition, you’re following the actions that’ll please the most
0:12:19 people or things like that.
0:12:22 So it’s really important to keep coming back to yourself, come back to that intuition,
0:12:27 and know that the polarity is going to trigger some people, and that’s okay.
0:12:30 That was a big lesson for me as a former people pleaser.
0:12:31 I had to let that go.
0:12:34 So you’re really big on TikTok.
0:12:35 LinkedIn is my main platform.
0:12:39 I’m an influencer on LinkedIn, and you got me thinking.
0:12:43 One of my biggest viral posts was this post that had a lot of polarity, and I never really
0:12:45 put those words around it until right now.
0:12:52 But basically I was wearing a hot pink jumpsuit, and on the photograph it said, “I’m a female
0:12:54 CEO with female crossed out.”
0:12:58 And so there was a lot of polarity because I was wearing a hot pink jumpsuit, but I crossed
0:12:59 out female.
0:13:02 So like everybody was talking about it, and now I know why.
0:13:03 It went viral.
0:13:06 So how soon did things take off for you?
0:13:08 Did you go viral right away?
0:13:09 Did it take months, years?
0:13:11 What was it like for you?
0:13:16 The whole thing happened pretty quickly, and I do attribute a lot of that to the energetics
0:13:20 that happened behind the scene where I was able to actually show up fully authentically
0:13:26 in what I wanted to create, and was ready to receive the attention back, where normally
0:13:28 I grew up with an anxiety disorder.
0:13:30 I hated having any attention on me.
0:13:35 I had to do a lot of overhauling to get to a spot where I wasn’t going to subconsciously
0:13:38 limit what was able to come into my field.
0:13:42 So it was by the fourth video to that DMX song, “X gon’ give it to ya.”
0:13:47 I did the X lookup function, and that one, it was so good.
0:13:52 That one got 100,000 views right away, and I was like, “Oh my gosh,” because this at
0:13:56 the time was my secret TikTok account because I sold a corporate job.
0:13:58 I wasn’t really sure what I was allowed to do.
0:14:03 So for me, I wasn’t like, “Hey everybody, like my video.”
0:14:07 Only my mother and my boyfriend knew about this secret account, Miss Excel.
0:14:12 So for me, when that video hit, it got shown to all these people I work with.
0:14:13 It got shown to all these people I know.
0:14:15 I’m getting all these messages like, “Is this you?”
0:14:18 And I’m like, “Oh, maybe it’s me.”
0:14:25 And then within three weeks of that, I had my first video go viral on TikTok.
0:14:29 And next thing you know, I looked down at my phone, and within a couple days, I had
0:14:31 100,000 followers.
0:14:34 And that’s where I was like, “Whoa, now what do I do?”
0:14:37 Because everything was going on in the news, too, at this time.
0:14:42 This was like June, July of 2020, that TikTok’s getting banned, all the things.
0:14:45 So I was like, “Well, I got a hedge mark risk out here.
0:14:47 I’m going to create an Instagram account.”
0:14:50 So I created an Instagram, started posting on there.
0:14:54 And then within a few months, both accounts had gone viral various times, and we had a
0:14:57 few 100,000 followers across the different platforms.
0:14:59 That’s so amazing.
0:15:05 It’s so rare to have somebody who just skyrockets on social media right away.
0:15:10 You just alluded to the fact that you came on with really good energy, and energy is
0:15:11 really magnetic.
0:15:14 So can you talk to us about the importance of ensuring that you have the right type of
0:15:17 energy when you go film your videos?
0:15:20 I view content as simply an energy exchange.
0:15:26 My energy is coming through to you on your phone or vice versa, and you are the recipient
0:15:27 of that energy, right?
0:15:30 So my job as a creator is I want my energy through the roof.
0:15:35 I want it in its most heightened, sparkly, magnetic state, because, one, that’s what’s
0:15:36 going to stop someone.
0:15:38 Think about a bunch of people walking down the street.
0:15:43 If there is someone that is magnetic and pure joy and happiness, and that was something
0:15:47 I worked on myself, too, to get myself to that place, that’s the type of person and
0:15:50 that’s the type of energy where you’re going to stop and be like, “Whoa, what’s that person
0:15:51 doing?”
0:15:55 Why do I feel like attracted to them, not in a sexual way, but in an energetic way?
0:15:56 It’s magnetism.
0:16:01 So that’s something I was learning early on is practices I can do behind the scenes,
0:16:06 and a lot of that was where the Kundalini Yoga came into play, doing different yoga technologies
0:16:11 and breath work and things where my aura would become bigger, my energy would become bigger,
0:16:13 and that way it would stop you on the phone.
0:16:17 So whether it was the polarity of the video, like, “I’m looking at Excel and a girl dancing
0:16:21 at once, what is this?” or just the energy behind it, right?
0:16:24 Like if I looked really bored or like I was having a bad time, I wouldn’t want to hang
0:16:25 out.
0:16:28 It’s kind of like creating a little room with someone when you’re watching a piece of content
0:16:29 and you’re like entering their room.
0:16:31 It’s like, “Do I want to go in that person’s room?”
0:16:35 You want to make sure the energy is there, you’re inviting, and you’re actually providing
0:16:36 value.
0:16:39 So that was something, too, where I’d spend a lot of time researching the tips and tricks,
0:16:44 making sure that one, people were learning, but two, also that we were having that entertainment
0:16:49 factor because each video too can bring someone’s energy up or down.
0:16:53 So if you’re watching dark things that are going to bring down your frequency, bring down
0:16:58 your vibration, that’s something that’s going to create more negative feelings in the body.
0:17:01 My job is, I’m trying to lift that up on the planet.
0:17:02 I want to make you smile.
0:17:03 I want to make you laugh.
0:17:06 I want to brighten your day in any possible way that I can.
0:17:11 So that’s where with my content, I need to make sure that I’m in a good spot before I
0:17:18 go and actually make that peace because that energy translates every single time.
0:17:20 So I love actionable advice on the podcast.
0:17:25 Most of our listeners, they’re entrepreneurs, they might be creating content.
0:17:26 We’re on video right now.
0:17:28 What is something that we can do right now?
0:17:32 Because you heard me when we got on camera, I was a little upset because I have a new
0:17:36 makeup artist and she put way too much makeup on my face and I was like, “Oh, I don’t feel
0:17:37 like myself.
0:17:40 What would I do to get my energy up in a situation like that?”
0:17:45 Well, first off, I think you did an incredible job of one expressing that because so many
0:17:47 people internalize that.
0:17:51 So you just opened it up to the room, you were like, “Hey guys, this is how I’m feeling.”
0:17:55 And that openness is automatically releasing any type of shame you’re feeling around that
0:17:56 emotion.
0:17:58 So I had this a lot going on with acne.
0:18:02 I was trying so hard to hide my acne for years and years and makeup and things.
0:18:07 And the second I started talking about it, it releases the shadow aspect of it.
0:18:09 So then it just releases that electromagnetic charge.
0:18:10 So you did an amazing job.
0:18:13 You literally came out and you’re like, “Yo, guys, this is how I’m feeling.”
0:18:14 Right?
0:18:19 And then we were able to hype you the F up because your perception of that reality was
0:18:21 different than our perception of that reality.
0:18:23 We’re like, “Oh my gosh, she’s dropped that gorgeous look at her.”
0:18:26 And then that was your perception of the reality.
0:18:30 So we were able to merge that a little bit and get your vibration back up.
0:18:32 And now you’re so sparkly and magnetic as always.
0:18:36 So it’s really cool what you did was so on point.
0:18:37 Yeah.
0:18:38 I love that.
0:18:42 I love putting some real life situations into perspectives.
0:18:43 Okay.
0:18:48 So let’s talk about the different ways that you can trend on TikTok.
0:18:50 You talked about polarity.
0:18:53 You also talked about craftsmanship, creativity, and authenticity.
0:18:57 Can you break down those things and how they can help us do well on TikTok and Instagram
0:19:01 and all the other short form video content out there?
0:19:05 When it comes to authenticity, I do think that’s one of the biggest ones because I see
0:19:11 a lot of people trying to fit themselves into a certain box that’s not their box.
0:19:13 It’s not the box that feels good for them.
0:19:14 It’s not what they actually want to do.
0:19:19 I remember when TikTok back in like 2020 with it, everyone was like, “Oh, if I go on
0:19:21 TikTok, I have to dance.”
0:19:23 You absolutely do not have to dance.
0:19:26 And obviously we see that now in all the content that’s out there now.
0:19:32 But at the time for me, I was just dancing because I genuinely love to dance.
0:19:36 That is when I’m so sparkly and magnetic and I will do that behind the scenes to hype
0:19:37 myself up.
0:19:40 So for me, it was a very authentic expression.
0:19:45 I do think too, when it comes to actually creating that polarity, I like combining different
0:19:46 things.
0:19:50 I like having a unique spin on something that you haven’t seen before.
0:19:54 So I think when it comes to creating that authentically for you, what I like to do is
0:19:56 just literally make a list.
0:19:57 This is how I got started out.
0:19:58 I made a list of like, what do I like?
0:20:01 Because I remember this was back when I was at my corporate job.
0:20:05 I was just very much the dull version of myself.
0:20:09 And I was really contorting to be the way that I needed to be to fit in the corporate
0:20:10 box.
0:20:13 And I was doing securitization reviews for banks.
0:20:15 I had a marketing degree.
0:20:18 I always constantly felt like I was just not in the right room.
0:20:20 I was like, “Oh, finance.”
0:20:26 So it was one of those things where I needed to get clear on who I was and what I genuinely
0:20:29 authentically wanted to do and create.
0:20:33 So I literally made a list of what lights me up and what do I love.
0:20:37 And then you could take a step back and look at that list and be like, “Okay, is there
0:20:40 a way to branch these things together?”
0:20:44 And then if you feel like you have limiting beliefs popping up being like, “Well, you
0:20:45 don’t have time for that.
0:20:46 You can’t do that.
0:20:47 People think you’re weird.
0:20:48 You’re going to get fired.”
0:20:51 All the things, those are the biggest blessing, right?
0:20:56 Because that is when it is shining a flashlight on the limiting beliefs that are holding us
0:21:01 in place from getting to where we intuitively and authentically want to go.
0:21:06 So I think a big part of it is I view whenever I catch a limiting belief, I’m like, “Hell
0:21:07 yes.”
0:21:09 Because now I see it.
0:21:11 The biggest thing is having the gift of awareness.
0:21:13 And that’s the thing with the Kundalini Yoga technology.
0:21:15 It’s the Yoga of Awareness.
0:21:20 So I was constantly doing things to bring awareness to my own self because a lot of us go through
0:21:24 life trying to, and I did this for the longest time, just hide ourselves, hide our flaws,
0:21:25 hide things.
0:21:27 And I was like, “You know what?
0:21:32 I need to bring my own self-awareness to where my quote-unquote flaws are, if they’re even
0:21:33 flaws.”
0:21:34 People view everything different.
0:21:36 It’s all perception.
0:21:42 And be able to not stand in my own way when it comes to getting those goals, when it comes
0:21:46 to reaching what I actually want to do and what timeline I want to be on.
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0:26:14 At what point did you decide, okay, I’m going to start monetizing this thing?
0:26:18 At what point did you decide to put out a course and start making sales?
0:26:20 That was in October of 2020.
0:26:26 So at this point, I had a few hundred thousand followers on TikTok, on Instagram, and a business
0:26:32 coach slid into my DMs, as he should, and was like, hey, notice you have a few hundred
0:26:37 thousand followers, no lead magnet, no link in your bio, no mailing list, no product, what
0:26:39 to do it over here.
0:26:42 And I was brand new to the digital marketing space.
0:26:44 I did not know any of these things.
0:26:46 So I did a one-off session.
0:26:51 I ended up doing the class, like I had the Mailchimp, the Linktree, the little automation
0:26:53 going, and I started growing a mailing list.
0:26:55 And that happened pretty quickly.
0:27:01 And by November of 2020, so about a month later, is that Black Friday is when I started
0:27:03 selling my first Excel course.
0:27:06 So this course, I took two weeks off from my day job.
0:27:10 So at this point, I’m still working 50 hours a week at my day job.
0:27:13 Took two weeks off on vacation in my living room.
0:27:14 Yeah.
0:27:18 And I built the most fun, engaging Excel course I could possibly think of because if you see
0:27:21 my content, your girl could not have a boring Excel course after that.
0:27:24 I was like, this needs to be really cool and fun.
0:27:25 So I built the whole course.
0:27:27 I taught myself video editing.
0:27:30 I edited every single video. It was over a hundred videos.
0:27:33 And I started selling it Black Friday.
0:27:39 And two months later, by January, it was bringing in more revenue per month than my day job
0:27:40 was per month.
0:27:45 And I was like, well, my Excel takes me like 10 hours a week and my day job takes me 40
0:27:46 to 50.
0:27:49 I would be dangerous with those hours back in my week.
0:27:52 I would be able to just go off and really scale this thing.
0:27:57 So to everybody’s discontent, I was like, I’m going to quit my study.
0:28:00 Because she’s stable day job in order to make TikTok content courses.
0:28:03 And everyone was like, what?
0:28:06 But for me, it’s really just a game.
0:28:08 This is how I view entrepreneurship.
0:28:10 It is just taking the bet on you.
0:28:15 And I knew as long as I made that promise to myself, I am not going to give up on me.
0:28:18 There is no risk as long as I’m not giving up.
0:28:22 I will 100% be successful because I will not stop until I get there.
0:28:26 And I just went into it with that mentality with all the people who were like, what are
0:28:27 you doing?
0:28:30 And, you know, trying to like explain to your 30% team that you’re quitting.
0:28:32 Oh, what company are you going to?
0:28:33 My company.
0:28:34 What do you mean?
0:28:37 Have you seen me on TikTok, Steve?
0:28:38 It’s a very interesting time.
0:28:43 But really taking that bet on me is what opened everything up because from there I was able
0:28:47 to create nine more courses, started doing webinars and start bundling them together.
0:28:51 And once I got that price point higher, that’s when we scaled into a seven figure company.
0:28:52 Yeah, that’s awesome.
0:28:56 And I’m sure it was easy to quit your cushy job considering you were already making more
0:28:58 money in your side hustle.
0:28:59 I was the same way.
0:29:02 I was making way more money in my side hustle at one point than my corporate job.
0:29:07 And I was like, okay, it’s definitely time to release these golden handcuffs.
0:29:12 So something that you did that was really smart is that you went really niche.
0:29:15 You dominated Excel training.
0:29:17 There was a gap open on TikTok.
0:29:19 Nobody was talking about it.
0:29:21 You did it in a really fun, engaging way.
0:29:28 And you basically dominated that Excel space, which is a niche of a niche, right?
0:29:29 So it’s very, very niche.
0:29:33 And I do want to point out to everybody listening because I teach a lot about entrepreneurship
0:29:40 and social media is that it’s so much easier to dominate a small niche and then go broad.
0:29:42 So a lot of people try to go broad.
0:29:47 They might launch a general entrepreneurship show out of nowhere when it’s way better to
0:29:53 just laser in on one aspect and dominate that and compete there and then broaden out.
0:29:57 So do you ever think about how you’re going to broaden out your brand now that you’ve
0:29:59 really dominated Excel?
0:30:02 So we’ve done a little bit of it in the last year and a half.
0:30:07 So I went from just Excel courses, and now we teach across the Microsoft Office Suite.
0:30:09 So PowerPoint, Word, Outlook, OneNote.
0:30:11 We also do Google Sheets.
0:30:14 I also teach AI and kids courses.
0:30:18 So that’s really where we started going out more inside of the course space.
0:30:20 And then I’m always listening, right?
0:30:21 I’m listening to our audience.
0:30:22 I’m like, what do they want?
0:30:23 What do they need?
0:30:28 And then where does that line up with my talents and what I’m able to bring to the marketplace?
0:30:32 But yeah, when we scaled out to the other Microsoft Office products, that’s where we
0:30:34 went from six figures to seven figures.
0:30:37 We needed that higher price point because it’s interesting.
0:30:41 So Excel courses are actually one of the top selling courses.
0:30:43 It is a really popular course topic.
0:30:45 I didn’t know that, getting into it.
0:30:49 And what we brought to the Excel space, too, is different from what I’ve been there before.
0:30:52 Because a lot of people looked at it, and they’re like, oh, there were already a bunch
0:30:54 of Excel YouTubers and bloggers.
0:30:57 That was the space when I first came into it.
0:31:01 No one was really doing short form content on Excel.
0:31:04 So that’s where I came in with the differentiator, because a lot of people, too, look at even
0:31:07 like niche industries, and they’re like, oh, there’s so many people in there.
0:31:08 I can’t get in there.
0:31:12 There’s been people that have been teaching Excel since before I was born, but I was like,
0:31:16 I’m going to bring my own authentic spin to this and really make this topic fun because
0:31:18 it doesn’t have to suck.
0:31:22 A lot of people look at Excel, and they’re like, oh, and if you’re hanging out with me,
0:31:24 you best not be having those feelings.
0:31:27 I’m going to make sure you are having a good time.
0:31:31 And you’re actually learning things that are going to save you hours in your week.
0:31:33 And that is my big thing with it.
0:31:36 Not only we’re going to make this functional, but we’re going to have a good time together
0:31:39 because life is short, and we should all be having a good time.
0:31:42 And I would never want someone to sit through a course that was really boring.
0:31:47 And I can imagine in the future that you actually help people launch courses or explain how
0:31:52 to go viral on TikTok because you learned a whole set of skills, putting your expertise
0:31:56 out to the world, and you could probably help other people put their expertise out to the
0:31:57 world as well.
0:32:01 Yeah, that’s something I do think about a lot, potentially, for down the line.
0:32:07 I feel like there’s something really big coming on the Miss Excel side, and so I’ve been putting
0:32:11 my eggs in that basket, but I do think down the line, I’ve gotten pretty good at course
0:32:14 creation and webinars and selling.
0:32:17 So I do think that’s something I can help people with down the line.
0:32:20 Yeah, and I definitely want to pick your brain on that.
0:32:21 But first, let’s talk about spreadsheets.
0:32:26 So I figured this is primarily an audio podcast.
0:32:30 We’re not going to be able to get too nitty gritty in terms of spreadsheet tutorials.
0:32:35 But of course, you can go to Miss Excel’s channels and learn all that stuff yourself.
0:32:39 But I do want to just talk about the fact that spreadsheets sometimes get a bad rap.
0:32:42 People are always talking about, “We got to get out of spreadsheets.
0:32:45 We got to get out of spreadsheets and an air table out of spreadsheets, and then click
0:32:49 up out of spreadsheets and in whatever tool is out there.”
0:32:51 So what is your perspective?
0:32:55 What is Excel good for and what is Excel not so good for?
0:32:59 I think Excel is incredible for data analysis.
0:33:04 When you want some answers and you want to know those answers are accurate, Excel is
0:33:06 the way to go.
0:33:09 And it’s also great for bringing data together.
0:33:14 So much of business is really going in and analyzing the data, analyzing what’s happened,
0:33:18 analyzing what you’re doing, moving forward, and even just simple tasks from an entrepreneurial
0:33:23 perspective, cleaning your mailing list, analyzing your mailing list, doing the uploads, the
0:33:27 CSV files, things like having those Excel schools really, really help.
0:33:34 What I do see more of in the entrepreneurial space is moving into other platforms for more
0:33:36 collaboration type efforts.
0:33:39 So I’ve even seen that with Google Sheets too.
0:33:46 A lot of people do that for more simple collaboration, but I would say the hardcore data analysis
0:33:50 side, when you need to pull all that data out, pull out your customer data and start
0:33:54 looking at what people are buying, what they’re doing, and really getting to those answers.
0:33:56 That’s where Excel really stands strong.
0:34:01 And when you say data entry, the first thing that comes to my mind is, “Oh, all this manual
0:34:06 data entry,” but talk to us about the ways that we can use Excel to automate some common
0:34:08 repetitive tasks.
0:34:11 Exporting from systems, first of all.
0:34:15 Exporting all that data and then functions that you can use, like the lookup functions.
0:34:18 Those are great ones for combining those different data sets together.
0:34:22 And then when it comes to the automation space, that’s where learning VBA and macros and ways
0:34:27 to create basically little tiny programs like automations, that you can hit a button and
0:34:31 it’ll do the same things you may need done to your spreadsheet each time.
0:34:36 Are great ways to automate and save time too, but I really think a lot of it comes down
0:34:40 to just knowing Excel’s kind of sneaky.
0:34:43 Most people don’t understand the capabilities that it has.
0:34:44 It is like a Ferrari.
0:34:47 There’s so much you can do with it, and a lot of people treat it like, you know, it’s
0:34:48 like a Camry.
0:34:53 They’re like, “Oh, I’m just going to put the data in there and change the color to yellow.
0:34:54 Cool.”
0:34:56 But it is a machine.
0:35:01 So I try to inspire people too to actually open up the HUD, take a look and see how much
0:35:06 time you can be saving because so many people actually use it and waste time with it versus
0:35:07 saving time with it.
0:35:09 And that’s where I come in.
0:35:12 Does Google Sheets and Excel have generally the same capabilities?
0:35:13 Yeah.
0:35:18 I would say they’re pretty similar, but Excel is definitely better for the data analysis
0:35:19 side of things.
0:35:23 I would say Google is a little bit stronger in the collaborative features, like if you
0:35:26 all need to be working on the same spreadsheet at the same time.
0:35:30 But if it’s something where you’re going in and you’re analyzing stuff and you’re pulling
0:35:32 down different things, Excel’s where it’s at.
0:35:38 We use Google Sheets specifically all the time at Yap Media, and I made a joke the other
0:35:42 day to my business partner, “Man, we just made 50k from a row on a spreadsheet.”
0:35:47 You know, like we make so much money off just using Google Sheets.
0:35:52 It really is honestly what powers our business is using Sheets.
0:35:53 So it’s so important.
0:35:58 I would love my employees to take some of your trainings and level it up.
0:36:04 Is there anything that we can do for our daily lives, little known hacks that we can use
0:36:08 Excel for even for our own personal lives outside of business?
0:36:14 I typically use it in my own personal life for different tracking type things and then
0:36:16 also from the sense of templates.
0:36:21 So if you ever need to do similar tasks time and time again or also with SOPs, I’m trying
0:36:23 to think from more of the entrepreneurial perspective.
0:36:27 If you have SOPs for people on your team, where, you know, if there’s certain data points
0:36:31 or certain forms that you collect each time, for us, for example, every time we host our
0:36:36 webinars, there are certain metrics we want every single time to be pulled.
0:36:42 So having those places where you keep it consistent and you’re able to analyze it not only on
0:36:44 a narrow level, but on the broad level.
0:36:47 So you have monthly different sheets for different things you’re pulling in, but then
0:36:50 you also tie it together on a dashboard.
0:36:52 We have a dashboard course for that too.
0:36:56 So we are always talking about able to have that bird’s eye view when it comes to your
0:37:01 data and be able to zoom out and make those strategic business decisions because it really
0:37:04 depends to where in your business you are.
0:37:07 If you are a CEO, like you want to be looking at that bird’s eye view.
0:37:10 If you’re a data analyst, you want to be getting into the nitty-gritty of the number.
0:37:16 So it’s a matter of merging those two worlds so the data can actually be used to make those
0:37:17 decisions.
0:37:20 So like we talked about, this is an entrepreneurship podcast.
0:37:25 A lot of people have their own courses and you’ve done a phenomenal job promoting, creating
0:37:27 courses, selling your courses.
0:37:30 So let’s walk through some of your strategy there.
0:37:33 Can you talk to us about how you promote your courses today?
0:37:38 What are the things that you’re doing to drive people to your platform to buy your courses?
0:37:41 Our biggest revenue driver is webinars.
0:37:48 So I host typically every month, every couple of months, live sessions where I for 45 minutes
0:37:50 am teaching a full-blown Excel class.
0:37:54 We’re either going into data cleaning, pivot tables, lookup functions.
0:37:59 I have a little intro and then I go in and I teach a full-blown class because I want
0:38:03 them to get a taste of what I can do and how I can actually break these concepts down.
0:38:06 And on the other side of that, people are like, “Oh my gosh, what?
0:38:08 I just learned all these things.”
0:38:12 And then we give them an incredible deal to keep learning with us and a massive discount
0:38:14 and gift with purchases.
0:38:18 And I actually first learned this from, I was on Boss Babes webinar back in January
0:38:19 of 2021.
0:38:24 That’s how I found out about webinar jam, was through Natalie and Danielle.
0:38:28 And really from there, we do the webinar and then we have a closed-down sequence that goes
0:38:31 through and we also get a lot of sales on the back end.
0:38:35 And another huge driver of our webinars has been our affiliate program.
0:38:40 So we came up with an affiliate program where we do a 50/50 split, meaning if someone brings
0:38:46 in a lead to us, whether we have Morning Brew, we work with some of the huge Excel creators
0:38:50 where they get their own events, and then we have tons of people, if they’re smaller
0:38:55 creators, going into our webinars where if you send us that lead and they make a sale,
0:38:58 you get 50% of the revenue.
0:39:04 So that’s something where we have creators making $10, $15,000 a month to up to like $70,000
0:39:07 a month with us in commissions.
0:39:11 So that’s something where I wanted to create something like, you know, an affiliate program
0:39:15 with our courses, because there’s so many creators out there not making money and it
0:39:16 really upsets me.
0:39:18 They have huge followings and I’m like, what’s happening?
0:39:22 Because I feel like that’s where I was and a lot of people don’t have topics that are
0:39:26 as conducive to courses and they’re just doing more brand deals and stuff where I was like,
0:39:30 okay, I want to make something where they can make good money out of this too.
0:39:32 And they could quit their jobs too.
0:39:36 Like a lot of these Excel creators have like 8 million followers and no products.
0:39:38 So I was like, okay, let’s get in there.
0:39:39 We already built it.
0:39:40 We have a team of 17.
0:39:42 We’re running the backend.
0:39:45 Let’s create something where all they need to do is push a link and then everything’s
0:39:47 taking care of for them on the backend.
0:39:51 So that’s been a huge revenue generator for us too is bringing in all those affiliates.
0:39:53 And it’s a huge revenue generator for them.
0:39:54 So it’s been a win-win.
0:39:57 Yeah, I love that strategy of affiliates.
0:40:02 That’s one that I’ve never heard of before specifically driving people to your webinar
0:40:05 and then if it converts, they get a portion of the sale.
0:40:09 So I kind of want to like distill some of the things that you had mentioned.
0:40:11 Webinars are really important to me.
0:40:13 I use it to sell my LinkedIn courses.
0:40:18 I’m actually putting out a webinar about using webinars to launch info products or sell
0:40:21 info products sponsored by Teachable.
0:40:25 And so I’d love to get some of your perspective about this topic specifically.
0:40:31 So first of all, you mentioned that you retarget folks after the webinars over.
0:40:35 You said after the webinars over, there’s also sales that are happening afterwards.
0:40:39 So a lot of people don’t realize that when people are signing up to Zoom webinar, you
0:40:40 get to collect email.
0:40:45 So one of my favorite things about webinars and Zoom webinars is the fact that people
0:40:50 have to give you their email and it really helps to accelerate and grow your email list.
0:40:54 And then you can retarget those people on email afterwards, but talk to us about your
0:40:58 retargeting strategy after the webinars over what happens.
0:41:02 Our full process is on the front end, we’re getting the name, the email, and sometimes
0:41:04 we have an optional for phone number.
0:41:06 So we also have a text campaign that’s going out too.
0:41:09 We use those more so on the show upside.
0:41:13 So on the front end, you’re getting a five email drip for a show up sequence.
0:41:15 You have extra tickets, invite other people.
0:41:18 And then we also, right before the webinar, you get a little text.
0:41:22 If you signed up with your number, like, hey, reminder, it’s on there.
0:41:26 We also integrate with ad event to be able to give them little calendar links and they
0:41:30 can hit a button and boom, the events on their Google calendar, their Outlook calendar and
0:41:31 whatnot.
0:41:36 From there, after the webinar, once we hang up, we have all the email sequences going
0:41:37 out.
0:41:39 So people get gifts for attending live.
0:41:40 So we have those going out.
0:41:43 We have people who get gifts with purchases from their purchases.
0:41:49 And then we also have our traditional closed down sequence, which we do a six email sequence
0:41:54 and it goes through and gives them, you know, the discount code again, the replay link.
0:41:58 And then throughout those emails, we’re also just integrating different testimonials and
0:42:01 things that’ll go and work through to the base with the sale.
0:42:05 And then we have the last call on the bottom there too.
0:42:06 Got it.
0:42:09 Can you walk us through some examples of what you mean by gift for attending the first session?
0:42:10 Yeah.
0:42:13 So we have lots of presents when you come to our bed.
0:42:14 I never heard that before.
0:42:15 That’s why I’m like, tell me more.
0:42:16 Yeah.
0:42:17 So that helped with our show up.
0:42:23 So we essentially advertise that anyone who attends in person, well, in person virtually,
0:42:29 you know, our live event, you get a practice file that I worked through in the class or
0:42:33 you get an extra little bonus for coming live because the conversion of the people who come
0:42:37 live is obviously much higher than the people who watch the replay or the people who don’t
0:42:38 watch at all.
0:42:42 So our goal is to get you in the room, one, because you’re going to have the best experience
0:42:45 and actually learn the materials and dedicate that time to you.
0:42:50 And then two, it helps us from a marketing perspective and a business perspective.
0:42:53 So we add in bonuses for attending live.
0:42:55 And then we have tracking on that on the back end.
0:42:57 So right when we hang up, we send them those.
0:43:00 Give me an example, like a free download or something.
0:43:01 Yeah.
0:43:02 Yeah.
0:43:04 So it’s really, it’s more so free downloads, I’d say, in the broader entrepreneurial space.
0:43:06 For us, it’s an Excel workbook.
0:43:11 So you get a workbook to do further practice of the lessons that you learned today, because
0:43:15 I typically do not give out the spreadsheet that I’m working with, because it’s a huge
0:43:20 file with macros and we gamify the Excel experience in order to make things really entertaining.
0:43:24 We’ve built escape rooms inside our spreadsheet and there, you know, as we’re clicking and
0:43:28 doing it together, different rooms are unlocking and so they’re very big files.
0:43:33 So for our audience, we typically say, you’re not missing anything, sit back, relax, just
0:43:34 watch what’s on the screen.
0:43:38 But if you came here live, not to worry, we’ll get extra practice.
0:43:40 And that’s something that gets a lot more people in the room.
0:43:42 And then we also do big gift with purchases.
0:43:47 So for people who purchase on the live, they get a gift with purchase.
0:43:50 So that’s something we have tracked on the back end too.
0:43:54 So when we hang up, our team sends out all the different presents into the inbox.
0:43:56 I love these ideas.
0:43:59 These are such good ideas that I’ve really never heard before.
0:44:03 I’ve interviewed a lot of webinar experts like Jason Flatline and Russell Brunson.
0:44:06 So it’s cool to get your unique perspective.
0:44:10 So one of the things that I know that can scare people with webinars is providing too
0:44:12 much education.
0:44:16 If you teach them too much, oftentimes they feel overwhelmed and then they’re like, well,
0:44:17 I learned so much.
0:44:18 Why bother getting the course?
0:44:20 I have so much to implement just with today.
0:44:21 This is overwhelming.
0:44:22 This is a lot of work.
0:44:23 It can scare people away.
0:44:28 So what is too much and too little education for your webinar?
0:44:30 How do you think about that?
0:44:36 I look at our course and in a free webinar, I’ll give away maybe 5% of that course.
0:44:40 So if you take a look at it, our courses are roughly about 12 hours long.
0:44:46 Excel has so many different topics that I typically go to a core three because we realized
0:44:49 we did have a lot of people just always coming to our free classes because I was switching
0:44:50 them up all the time.
0:44:55 So now we keep it into three different topics where you don’t really get the other topic.
0:44:59 So having that repetitive nature, if you are doing tons of webinars does help.
0:45:03 We do have tons of our existing course members who joined our free webinars and it’s honestly,
0:45:07 it is a really big blessing too because they’ll type in the chat, like, yeah, I love my courses
0:45:08 so much.
0:45:11 It definitely does help with sales too.
0:45:16 But one, I try not to be afraid of doing that because there’s always just so much more you
0:45:20 can teach and things in the courses, but niching down into one topic is what we do.
0:45:24 I don’t just teach, here’s a little pivot tables, here’s a little lookup, here’s all
0:45:28 the different things because then someone might look at the course outline and be like,
0:45:31 I just learned all that, but they don’t realize you can go deeper.
0:45:32 So I niche it down.
0:45:37 So we just did, for example, data cleaning one, we have a lookup one coming up.
0:45:39 That’s something we niche it down.
0:45:43 So you’re saying you have three core topics that you rotate because people like to attend
0:45:46 multiple webinars before they actually make their choice.
0:45:47 That’s what I found.
0:45:51 People might attend my webinars two, three times and then they make a purchase.
0:45:56 Some people need more warming up, but they’re just not ready or they need to be sold more.
0:46:01 What kind of psychology and words are you using during your webinar to try to draw people
0:46:06 in, get them engaged, get them bought into wanting to take this course?
0:46:10 I think for me, it might be a little different than what other people do, but I just go from
0:46:16 a place of love because I feel like, especially in the Excel space, it can seem really cold
0:46:17 and really sterile.
0:46:19 That’s not me as a person.
0:46:22 So I go in there and just blast them.
0:46:25 I’m like, you are going to feel like your hand is being held because I know this experience
0:46:28 of learning Excel can feel really overwhelming.
0:46:33 And I’ll go through and just make sure that they understand once you’re in our ecosystem,
0:46:36 once you are in the Miss Excel family, you are taken care of.
0:46:40 And I make sure that everyone I hire is incredibly heart-centered and love-filled and just great
0:46:42 human beings.
0:46:46 So that way I know they’re being taken care of when they’re in our courses because that’s
0:46:50 something that worries a lot of people is when you’re teaching a topic that feels really
0:46:55 overwhelming, they might need that extra hand-holding to be able to feel comfortable.
0:46:58 So I always try to bridge that gap because that’s something especially in my space that’s
0:46:59 really missing.
0:47:03 If you’re maybe like a love coach or something, that might not be something that’s missing.
0:47:07 But for us in our space, I’ve found that that’s something really authentic to me and something
0:47:08 that works really well.
0:47:11 And then also I always speak to their pain points.
0:47:16 So I know what’s going on in their minds and I know how our product is the solution to
0:47:17 it.
0:47:18 So I bridge that gap.
0:47:19 A lot of people feel overwhelmed.
0:47:22 They feel anxiety and things around it.
0:47:26 And then our course members are saving hours in the week, getting promotions, getting raises,
0:47:28 feeling confident at work.
0:47:33 So making that messaging match up with what we’re delivering and what their pain points
0:47:35 are is really big too.
0:47:38 We’ll be right back after a quick break from our sponsors.
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0:52:45 Walk us through how you would communicate pain points and flip it on its head.
0:52:47 What would you say in the webinar?
0:52:52 If you open up your spreadsheet and you feel really overwhelmed, do you feel like the person
0:52:56 next to you knows so much more than you do and you might get passed up for the promotion
0:53:02 or things in that realm is what I’ll focus on where it’s like the overwhelm, the anxiety,
0:53:07 and then I explain, I have testimonials, we have 24,000 students and I show them our course
0:53:10 members and what they’re actually doing and I have their words.
0:53:15 I got the promotion, I got the raise, I showed my boss these tips and tricks and now they
0:53:20 want to bring on the courses for our whole team and that’s really where I’ll bring up
0:53:23 those points and then I’ll bring up these points and merge them together.
0:53:28 We do it through different slides, so we have a slide presentation that goes with it.
0:53:31 Do you talk about your own personal story in the webinar at all?
0:53:35 Do you intro with your own story, how Excel changed your life?
0:53:36 How do you intro everything?
0:53:39 I think it was, I forget who talks about it, it’s like the hero’s journey.
0:53:44 You essentially have, yeah, in the beginning, so I mean, I really do have a journey with
0:53:45 the product.
0:53:49 I talk about how my MBA program, our professor on the first day actually told me to drop
0:53:55 the class and told me I shouldn’t be studying data because I didn’t have the prerequisite
0:53:56 courses.
0:54:00 That was the first moment where I was like, you know what, I’m going to put in 110% every
0:54:04 day, I want to stay, I want to try my best, ends up the whole class is in Excel, whole
0:54:08 major is in Excel, so really in efforts past this class, that is how I ended up falling
0:54:10 in love with it.
0:54:13 And then when I got into corporate, I talked about the first presentation I gave in our
0:54:17 New York office where I thought like 10 people would come and it was the most packed training
0:54:19 room I’ve ever seen.
0:54:23 People carrying in chairs from the kitchen, they ran out of seats and I was like, why
0:54:26 do so many people care about learning Excel?
0:54:29 And that’s why I had my revelation about how being efficient Excel can help you X, Y,
0:54:34 Z, you know, and then it flows into the whole value promise.
0:54:35 I love that.
0:54:37 And how do you keep people engaged in the webinar?
0:54:41 What are you doing to get them to chat, to communicate and why is that so important throughout
0:54:42 the webinar?
0:54:44 They’re always chatting in the chat.
0:54:48 So we typically had two to 3000 people on each live event.
0:54:52 So the chat is constantly like the second I get on, I’m asking them where they’re from,
0:54:53 you know, it’s going so fast.
0:54:56 I like read as many as I can, but it’s too much.
0:55:02 And then as we go through the training, I don’t actually look in the chat until after
0:55:08 I’m done teaching the Excel part, because I am full screen Excel on the screen and I’m
0:55:10 in a flow state in my teaching zone.
0:55:14 And sometimes there’s some people being negative Nancy’s in the chat or like little things
0:55:18 where I don’t want that to ever throw off my energy and giving them that attention.
0:55:20 So I will go through the Excel class.
0:55:25 We do have my boyfriend Mike, he’s my CFO, he’s also my bouncer in the chats.
0:55:27 So things get weird.
0:55:32 We got Mike in there and my team is in there too as a backup for me, but we just keep me
0:55:36 in my high vibe bubble so I can make sure I’m performing at top capacity.
0:55:41 And then once we get to the pitch, that’s where I can then visually see the chat and
0:55:42 our slides.
0:55:48 And we just added things actually in our last set that were pretty cool, where I intentionally
0:55:51 ask them if I can pitch, which is something we’ve never done before where it’s like, guys,
0:55:53 if something really excited, can I show you?
0:55:57 And then we also ask them, can you let me know in the chat how you like the session?
0:56:01 Those are two things we actually just added, and it’s awesome for testimonials because
0:56:04 a lot of times people are putting it in there, but it’s more scattered.
0:56:09 Now I have thousands of people moving really quickly of all the different feedback.
0:56:13 So those two we integrated, and then I stay on an extra 30 minutes and I will answer any
0:56:16 questions they have literally as long as they need.
0:56:20 And something too with the chat that actually works really well, it kind of turns into almost
0:56:24 like auction vibes at the end, because all of people will be like, Nancy, be like, wait,
0:56:26 I’m getting my credit card.
0:56:27 Don’t shut it down.
0:56:28 I want the gift with purchase.
0:56:29 I’m like, okay, we got Nancy in the chat.
0:56:30 Anybody else?
0:56:31 Let me know your name.
0:56:32 I will keep it open for you.
0:56:36 And they’re like, wait, me, and then more people start going through.
0:56:40 So I usually stay on an extra 20 minutes where people are just like, but wait, I want it
0:56:41 too.
0:56:46 And that, you know, drags on longer, but we’re having fun, we’re having fun out there.
0:56:47 That’s amazing.
0:56:49 I love that you pointed out a couple of really cool things.
0:56:54 So asking for permission for you to sell, you’re probably saying like, hey, if I accomplish
0:56:58 XYZ, do I have permission to tell you about this new thing?
0:57:01 And then people are like more open to buy.
0:57:05 And the other thing that I love to do on webinars is get people to say yes, yes, I want them
0:57:07 to say yes throughout the whole webinar.
0:57:11 So at the end, when you’re selling, they feel like they’re in the mode of saying yes.
0:57:12 Right.
0:57:14 And I feel like that’s a strategy too.
0:57:19 So let’s talk about how you actually bring people to the webinar.
0:57:21 What’s your best strategies to invite people to the webinar?
0:57:25 You talked about affiliates, but what are you doing personally to get them to the webinar?
0:57:29 We do the majority of it through our organic channels and our mailing list.
0:57:30 So mailing list is number one.
0:57:31 Mailing list is the goal.
0:57:34 We do a five email drip to the mailing list.
0:57:36 We also have a newsletter that goes out every week.
0:57:39 So we have it like inside of our newsletter as well.
0:57:41 And then we also do a little bit of paid ads.
0:57:45 That’s something we’ve been ramping up over time, but we do have paid ads.
0:57:50 And then the affiliate programs, the other really big one and social content.
0:57:52 And I do like stories.
0:57:53 It’s so interesting.
0:57:55 My audience likes very specific stories.
0:58:00 It has to be like me far away doing something and a bunch of words on the screen.
0:58:03 And those will blast through the algorithm.
0:58:06 And then anything else just doesn’t, but I’m able to slip in the promotions on the bottom
0:58:07 of those posts.
0:58:10 So I let them in of like behind the scenes of what I’m actually like doing in my life
0:58:13 because I’m probably like the worst influencer.
0:58:18 I never post what I’m doing online, most people do not know where, what country I’m in, what
0:58:19 I’m doing.
0:58:24 I keep a very DL, but during webinar promotion, I open up the door and I’m just like, Hey,
0:58:28 we’re working on this behind the scenes and like kind of let them into that stuff.
0:58:33 And what’s the best way that you found to actually get people to go from TikTok or Instagram
0:58:36 to your actual website to purchase your course?
0:58:38 Is it a link in bio?
0:58:39 Is it many chat automations?
0:58:40 What are you doing?
0:58:41 We do it all.
0:58:44 So we usually do many chat into the webinar.
0:58:47 So we have like a funnel, they comment, level up, they get the link to the webinar.
0:58:49 And then I sell them on the webinar.
0:58:53 We don’t do as much direct to course sales unless it’s the Black Friday sale or something
0:58:54 like that.
0:58:57 And then we also always have the link in bio for that too.
0:58:59 So I would say those are the main ones.
0:59:03 Sometimes we’ll repost a viral piece of content with the call to action on it and that’ll
0:59:05 make it through the algorithm pretty far too.
0:59:06 Cool.
0:59:11 So your main strategy is social posts to webinar, email to webinar, and then everybody gets
0:59:13 converted on one big webinar.
0:59:14 Yeah.
0:59:15 I love it.
0:59:18 So what other revenue streams do you have outside of your courses?
0:59:22 In addition to the courses, we also have the B2B side of the business.
0:59:25 So that’s what my partner, Mike, he’s our CFO.
0:59:29 He runs that and we have a sales team now that goes out and sells the companies.
0:59:34 So we work with over 300 organizations now from like Kraft Heinz, Enterprise Rent-A-Car.
0:59:39 We work with all different schools, organizations, and we do a couple of different things there.
0:59:43 For some of them, they do bulk course purchases.
0:59:46 So we’ll either integrate with their learning management system or if they just want like
0:59:51 a small group, like five to 10, we give them discounts and we put them in the courses there.
0:59:55 And then we also do live custom one hour sessions.
1:00:00 So those are either with me or the demand for me got so high that I hired another trainer.
1:00:05 So we have a sort of a miss excel trainer who I trained up and she’s incredible.
1:00:09 And so a lot of times too, we’ll book her out on jobs depending on what the client wants.
1:00:14 And then we’re also working on something this quarter where it’s essentially going to be
1:00:18 a simulive experience because I realized, for example, I do trainings for one of the
1:00:23 big four accounting firms and they like pre-produced events.
1:00:25 It’d be like 17,000 people on it once.
1:00:26 They don’t want me on a live.
1:00:28 They want to pre-produce it.
1:00:33 They got the videographers, everybody’s on camera and or on the Zoom meeting while I’m
1:00:34 recording it.
1:00:35 And that’s where I had a brain blast.
1:00:40 I was like, whoa, like they want to have the ability to have this video pre-recorded.
1:00:41 We know it’s perfect.
1:00:42 We know everything’s lined up.
1:00:45 And then they’re the ones who hit the go button.
1:00:50 So we’re working on our end to create a really cool experience that I honestly don’t think
1:00:54 the corporate space has seen before, where we’re integrating some things that we do in
1:00:55 our courses.
1:01:00 So for example, our courses, I refilmed my entire Excel one recently, where we leverage
1:01:03 AI to make them so cool and engaging.
1:01:05 I build worlds inside of Excel.
1:01:09 For example, with the Miss Excel Zoo, it is a zoo built inside of a spreadsheet where
1:01:11 I’m full blown dressed as a zookeeper.
1:01:15 With AI, I’m inside the zoo in my spreadsheet and we’re working on the animal data.
1:01:18 We have a kitchen one where we run a restaurant.
1:01:19 I’m in a chef outfit.
1:01:23 I’m literally recording it in my room here on a blank background, but I’m inside of
1:01:25 this kitchen world and we have that data.
1:01:30 So I’m now able to, if it’s pre-recorded, to be able to integrate those aspects to create
1:01:33 really cool simulated live experiences.
1:01:38 And then we’re someone on our team is running the Q&A live on the chat, but then I don’t
1:01:39 have to physically be there.
1:01:43 And then we could really scale this up because the demand for me has been really high.
1:01:47 So that’s something where we’re looking to alleviate some of my time, but then also just
1:01:49 make the corporate experience so much cooler.
1:01:51 Yeah, it sounds so fun.
1:01:53 You are so freaking creative.
1:01:59 You really are a true creative mind and you make what other people probably think is boring
1:02:00 so fun.
1:02:03 And I feel like that’s really one of your secret sauces.
1:02:10 In terms of how you bundle your packages and sell your courses, the price points, do you
1:02:11 have any thoughts?
1:02:13 You’ve been doing this for a while now.
1:02:16 How do you feel like people should sell their courses most effectively in terms of how they
1:02:18 bundle and price it?
1:02:26 For us, we did not pass the six figure mark until we got to the around $1,000 price mark
1:02:29 with creating more courses and then bundling them together.
1:02:35 For us, what works really well is I give them the most no-brainer deal where you are getting
1:02:38 nine courses for the price of one and a half.
1:02:41 So when you’re on a live webinar or when you’re getting that discount code plus gift with
1:02:47 purchases and things like that, I make it the most no-brainer situation for them.
1:02:51 And that has helped a lot with driving up our sales and getting to those higher price
1:02:57 points because our Excel courses start around $297 for a regular Excel course and then we
1:03:02 go up to a little over $1,000 to get our complete Microsoft Office suite, where you get lifetime
1:03:07 access to all the training, video supplies, all the things, and they’re continually updated.
1:03:12 So I kind of equate what our product is, is the Netflix of Microsoft Office.
1:03:16 And that’s how I get a lot of people to draw the connection because they’re like, “Wait,
1:03:18 I can watch whenever I want anywhere anytime.”
1:03:22 I’m like, “Yes, you have access to all of that in your back pocket.
1:03:23 Everything’s clearly labeled.
1:03:27 It’s like having me back there like, “Oh, what did Kat say about a VLOOKUP?
1:03:30 There she is, five to 10 minutes less than boom.”
1:03:32 So that’s something that’s really helped us, too.
1:03:34 I love all your tips that you shared.
1:03:39 I’m sure a lot of entrepreneurs that are tuning in are like, “How can I sell my expertise
1:03:41 like Kat?”
1:03:46 And some of them might be thinking, “Am I really a good enough expert to sell my expertise?
1:03:47 Like, am I ready?
1:03:52 What would you say qualifies somebody to be ready to do something like you did and start
1:03:54 selling their expertise?”
1:03:56 You’re ready before you think you’re ready.
1:03:57 That’s the biggest thing.
1:04:03 A lot of times people will stand in their own way and you know more than you think you know.
1:04:07 And especially if you are a teacher and you’re teaching something, you’re a really quick learner.
1:04:11 So if you feel like there are any gaps, I would say fill in the gaps with what you need to
1:04:13 do to get yourself to that level.
1:04:17 But a lot of the time you know already what you need to know, and it’s a matter of breaking
1:04:22 any subconscious patterns that are keeping you in that place where that’s telling you
1:04:23 that you’re not the expert.
1:04:26 Because it’s very easy to get intimidated by other people, especially if they have a
1:04:32 big audience, great website, they must be so official, like dig into those people.
1:04:37 I do a whole thing too, where instead of viewing, I don’t view anybody as competition, I view
1:04:41 them as expanders, where I can look at them and I’ll find a way that I can relate to that
1:04:45 person and be like, “Oh, like they did this for four years.
1:04:46 I did this for four years.”
1:04:51 Like little things where then you can create that connection to them, be like if they could
1:04:52 do it, I can do it too.
1:04:57 So using anyone that’s intimidating you as a way to expand your own subconscious, use
1:05:00 it as a tool to further your own development.
1:05:05 And then also just having that confidence in yourself, because there are so many people
1:05:08 that will go out there and just pitch their stuff.
1:05:11 I’ve seen this time and time again, they don’t even have experience in the thing.
1:05:14 Like some people are just really good at sales.
1:05:18 If there’s people out there doing that, trust me, if you’re to the point where you can make
1:05:21 a course on something, you know your stuff.
1:05:23 I know that authenticity is really important.
1:05:29 And I think why people are drawn to you is because you really do have a super deep expertise
1:05:32 in Excel and you really can teach a lot of different things.
1:05:37 So what advice do you have to other folks who want to become better experts?
1:05:41 What should they do to become a top expert in their field?
1:05:46 So I think it depends on what the field is, but I’m always a big fan of continued education,
1:05:47 obviously courses.
1:05:51 I’m in the course of business, so I love taking courses and learning things.
1:05:55 And then also, similar to what I said with expansion, finding people out there who are
1:05:58 doing what you want to do.
1:05:59 And that’s something to work.
1:06:01 It’s like the four-minute mile thing.
1:06:04 Like when people saw other people could do it, they could do it.
1:06:05 Same thing here.
1:06:09 If you feel like you can’t get to that next level, there’s something in your way.
1:06:13 Like finding people who are there in order to expand your own mind.
1:06:17 And then take a look at what they’re doing and start living and making decisions from
1:06:18 that place.
1:06:20 That’s something that’s been really big for me, too.
1:06:25 We hired a lot of people in the last eight-ish months.
1:06:28 We added like 10 more people to our team.
1:06:31 And I had this moment, I was listening to, it was a podcast episode, actually, with my
1:06:35 business coach, James Wedmore and Natalie Ellis.
1:06:40 And I was listening to that and they were talking about how they figured out when they
1:06:45 were spending too much time on certain tasks that needed to be outsourced.
1:06:49 For me, it was just like listening to a podcast episode, I was like, boom, wait, that’s me
1:06:50 right now.
1:06:51 I need to hire people.
1:06:52 I’m the one holding myself in place.
1:06:54 I’m the one, the bottleneck here.
1:06:57 From there, it just became super clear of what to do.
1:06:59 And then it’s following your intuition.
1:07:06 What I found for myself is that when I actually teach other people, it reinforces it in my
1:07:07 brain.
1:07:12 And even if I’m teaching something that is kind of new, if I teach it two, three times,
1:07:14 suddenly it’s like, I know it like the back of my hands.
1:07:19 I’m the expert on this specific topic, even if I learned it two weeks ago and I just taught
1:07:20 it a bunch of times recently, right?
1:07:25 So I feel like don’t be afraid to just learn something and teach it right away.
1:07:30 And you’ll actually get it reinforced and it will become part of your nomenclature like
1:07:32 just automatically if you do that.
1:07:33 Okay.
1:07:39 So last question for you, I found out that you only work three to four hours a day, which
1:07:40 is incredible.
1:07:43 I don’t know if this is true or not, but this is what I read in my research.
1:07:48 You work just a few hours a day, walk us through what your typical day looks like and why you’ve
1:07:51 decided that you’re going to have this four hour workday.
1:07:56 It’s even less now because I’ve outsourced pretty much like 90% of the stuff I had to
1:07:57 do.
1:08:01 I can work when I feel creative and when I want to do something.
1:08:04 And that was something when designing this business, I was not going to put myself back
1:08:07 in the same spot where I was working 50, 60 hours a week.
1:08:11 I did a little hustle in the beginning, got this thing off the ground, but I was like,
1:08:16 I’m not going to build something that’s entrapping me and I want to enjoy the journey.
1:08:20 I want to live my life as I’m growing this because Ms. Excel is a direct reflection of
1:08:21 my own energy.
1:08:26 So if I’m feeling contracted, if I’m feeling like I’m being forced to do something, it’s
1:08:28 not good energy for the business.
1:08:33 So really, it was a game of just hiring out certain things that I was doing where they
1:08:38 could do it so much faster than me too, things that their experts in and having the team
1:08:40 to back it up helped a lot.
1:08:44 But typically, our day-to-day looks totally different depending on what we’re doing.
1:08:48 We spent the summer living in Europe and just traveling and maybe we got on a team meeting
1:08:51 once a week, but the business is a well-oiled machine now.
1:08:53 We have systems in place.
1:08:55 We have an incredible team.
1:08:58 Being running smoothly, it doesn’t require much from me.
1:09:03 Where I come into play is more of strategy, visionary, partnerships.
1:09:05 Where are we taking this train?
1:09:07 And that’s something I take really seriously.
1:09:12 So even if it looks like on the outside, I’m not traditionally working sitting at a desk.
1:09:17 When I’m off-roading through the desert, riding on their quad, that puts me in a creative
1:09:21 flow state because my body is relaxed and I’ll start getting tons of ideas and then
1:09:22 I write them down.
1:09:27 I learn the way to work my body and to work my nervous system to be able to make myself
1:09:32 into a place where I can get the creative downloads because in the end, I am the one
1:09:36 making the decisions and being the visionary and it’s really important that I need to work
1:09:37 my intuition.
1:09:41 So typically, our day-to-day, I’ve been really into the biohacking space, so I’m getting
1:09:44 all crazy with optimizing my body and my health.
1:09:49 So I’m waking up, going out on the balcony, looking at the sunrise, helping with my circadian
1:09:54 rhythm, eating clean food and I just say yes to things that feel like a hell yes, like
1:09:57 this podcast talking to you and like, “Hell, yes.”
1:10:01 So things like that, things that light me up are the things I’m going to do.
1:10:05 And then sometimes webinar weeks, for example, I’m hustling during a webinar week.
1:10:12 I’m running six or seven 90-minute events where during those, it takes a ton of my energy.
1:10:16 If I was sitting there then doing all the emails myself and doing everything, that would
1:10:19 be really hard for me to spin it back around and do it again.
1:10:23 So that’s where I’m like, “Okay, I need to outsource that so I can hang up the webinar.”
1:10:28 And I have another one in an hour, I’m like laying on my PEMF mat with negative ions wrapped
1:10:29 in a crystal blanket.
1:10:31 Doing some meditation.
1:10:34 I got to do things to bring my nervous system back.
1:10:35 Yeah.
1:10:38 I love my PEMF mat, a higher dose.
1:10:39 Higher dose?
1:10:40 I love that.
1:10:43 Yes, it’s the best every day.
1:10:44 Okay.
1:10:48 So one thing that I found out is that you’re actually editing your own videos still.
1:10:52 Is that true because you were talking about outsourcing, but are you still editing your
1:10:53 own videos?
1:10:54 No.
1:10:55 Not anymore.
1:10:56 Okay.
1:11:00 No, we have a couple editors on deck now, one that does social, one that does courses.
1:11:02 We built like a full course studio in the house now.
1:11:03 So we have like a TikTok studio.
1:11:05 I got rid of all my guest rooms.
1:11:06 Amazing.
1:11:07 Yeah.
1:11:08 And like I built studios and offices.
1:11:10 So I’m like, “I want to utilize every room of this house.”
1:11:14 We bought our dream house in Sedona and I was like, “I want to just make sure we’re fully
1:11:16 utilizing this space.”
1:11:21 So we have course studio, we got TikTok studio, and then office down below now.
1:11:22 Amazing.
1:11:24 Well, congratulations on all your success.
1:11:27 I end my show with two questions that I ask all of my guests.
1:11:32 The first one is, what is one actionable thing our young and profitors can do today to become
1:11:34 more profitable tomorrow?
1:11:37 Taking messy action is what needs to be done.
1:11:41 So it’s one of those things where I would not have a business right now.
1:11:46 If I did not step past any perfectionist tendencies like in waiting for the right time and all
1:11:48 the things, all I did was take messy action.
1:11:51 That is all I continue to do.
1:11:53 Don’t be scared to fall flat on your face.
1:11:54 Most people are not even watching.
1:11:55 You pick yourself back up.
1:11:56 You’re good.
1:11:57 I love that advice.
1:12:01 And what would you say is your secret to profiting in life?
1:12:07 I would say the biggest secret is continually working on myself because I will only call
1:12:13 in the amount of abundance and the amount of opportunity that my nervous system can hold.
1:12:18 So I can actually tell in my body when I’m reaching that threshold, my eyes will start
1:12:19 twitching.
1:12:20 I’ll start having little bits of anxiety.
1:12:25 I can tell I’m reaching that limit where the amount I’m taking on, the amount of opportunities,
1:12:27 and I won’t receive any more than that.
1:12:31 My whole business pretty much has been inbound leads.
1:12:35 So all our corporate clients, all opportunities, all the things, the partnerships, they come
1:12:36 inbound.
1:12:39 So if my energy is repelling that, I’m like, “Ah, too much.”
1:12:41 They won’t come through.
1:12:46 So my job as an entrepreneur and CEO of the company is to keep working on me so that I
1:12:50 can grow the biggest business I can and the most profitable and most impactful business
1:12:54 I can because I can hold that opportunity.
1:12:57 So that’s something I’m always just working on myself.
1:13:02 Well, I’ve just thought of a new course idea, manifestation for entrepreneurs, you really
1:13:03 got it down.
1:13:04 Yeah.
1:13:05 So I love that, Kat.
1:13:07 It was such an awesome conversation that we had today.
1:13:09 I feel like it was really actionable.
1:13:10 I feel like your story is so inspiring.
1:13:12 Thank you so much for spending time with us today.
1:13:14 Thank you for having me.
1:13:15 This was awesome.
1:13:16 Yeah, it was super fun.
1:13:22 Thank you so much for having me.
1:13:26 Thank you so much for having me.
1:13:27 Thank you.
1:13:28 Thank you.
1:13:29 Thank you.
1:13:30 Thank you.
1:13:31 Thank you.