Matt Abrahams: Think Faster, Talk Smarter

0:00:11 I’m Guy Kawasaki, and this is Remarkable People.
0:00:17 We’re on a mission to make you remarkable, and helping me in this episode is the remarkable
0:00:19 Matt Abraham’s.
0:00:24 Matt is a lecturer in organizational behavior at Stanford University’s Graduate School
0:00:25 of Business.
0:00:32 He teaches popular classes on strategic communications and effective virtual presenting.
0:00:35 Matt has been recognized for his teaching excellence.
0:00:40 He’s received the Stanford Graduate School of Business Alumni Teaching Award and the
0:00:43 Larson Lamb Family Lecturer Award.
0:00:49 Matt is the author of Speaking Up Without Freaking Out, 50 Techniques for Confident
0:00:54 Calm and Competent Presenting, and today we’ll be discussing his latest book, Think
0:01:00 Faster, Talk Smarter, How to Speak Successfully When You’re Put on the Spot.
0:01:04 So many people worry about speaking to large groups, but if you think about it, we speak
0:01:08 to just one person or smaller groups much more often.
0:01:13 This episode will help you be a better communicator in these circumstances.
0:01:20 I’m Guy Kawasaki, this is Remarkable People, and now here is the remarkable conversationalist
0:01:27 Matt Abraham’s.
0:01:35 My favorite moment in your book, and I think a moment that is going to reframe my thinking.
0:01:41 That powerful a moment is that I give a lot of presentations and a lot of them have Q&A,
0:01:46 and I have a love-hate relationship with Q&A because it’s kind of a crapshoot, right?
0:01:51 Inevitably somebody comes up and starts telling his 10-minute life story, and then finally
0:01:53 you say, “Is there a question here?”
0:01:59 And they often ask really difficult esoteric questions that need more like a psychiatrist
0:02:01 than a keynote speaker.
0:02:11 But when you said that think of Q&A as the person trying to have a good moment with you,
0:02:14 that just clarified everything for me.
0:02:16 I understand that now.
0:02:20 It has reframed my thinking about doing Q&A.
0:02:21 That’s wonderful.
0:02:24 I have had the same experience you do where you’re getting questions, you’re just, “What
0:02:25 is happening in front of me?”
0:02:30 And I had the same shift that I had to make and understand that the person is really trying
0:02:35 to connect with you, and they might not know how to do it, or they might not be able to
0:02:41 articulate it clearly, but it’s an opportunity to have that good moment, to have that connection,
0:02:45 to find a way to learn from each other and to collaborate.
0:02:50 And I now lean into Q&A because of that, because of the opportunity to see where it takes me,
0:02:51 and it’s a lot of fun.
0:02:53 And I hope you try it out and have good success with it.
0:02:57 I read your book last night, and so I’m trying to figure out when my next speech will be,
0:02:59 and I’m going to emphasize Q&A.
0:03:00 Good.
0:03:09 So, I realized that your book is about this kind of informal, unplanned, unscripted presentation,
0:03:11 but I’m not going to limit myself to that.
0:03:15 When I speak to a communications expert like you, I just want to ask everything I want
0:03:16 to ask.
0:03:17 Happy to take the questions.
0:03:18 All right.
0:03:27 Do you prefer as a format for fostering communication the formal speech or the fireside chat?
0:03:28 Which is better?
0:03:34 I think people vary on this, and it has to do with your openness and willingness to let
0:03:36 things be freeform or not.
0:03:40 Many of us, especially if we’re nervous or novice on the topic, we like to have a sense
0:03:44 of control if there’s a strict timeframe where we have to get the information across.
0:03:47 And a presentation affords us some of that.
0:03:51 I personally like conversation and fireside chats.
0:03:55 For the very reason that we talked about, it allows for a lot of good moments to happen.
0:04:02 I also really enjoy Q&A so much so that when I structure my formal presentations, I turn
0:04:04 them into self-Q&A.
0:04:08 So I’ll start by saying today, I’d like to discuss three questions with you.
0:04:12 And then I’ll ask the question, I’ll answer it, and then I’ll move on to the next question.
0:04:18 So for me, an interactive, inquiry-based communication works best.
0:04:20 Not everybody is that way.
0:04:24 So you have to be flexible so you can adjust and adapt between the two types.
0:04:25 Okay.
0:04:30 That is a second, scales remove from my eyes moment.
0:04:31 So I never thought of that.
0:04:36 I could say today I’m going to answer for you three questions and question number one
0:04:39 is this, I love that.
0:04:43 And so it allows you to be conversational.
0:04:48 You single-handedly in the last 24 hours have doubled the quality of my speeches.
0:04:49 I swear to God.
0:04:51 And I use a top 10 format.
0:04:55 So I’m going to just say, I’m going to answer 10 questions for you today.
0:04:57 And Guy, I’ve seen you speak, you’re an amazing speaker.
0:05:00 So anything I can do that you think will help you makes me feel really good.
0:05:05 Oh, thank you very much for the kind words, but that is brilliant.
0:05:08 I think a lot of people listening to this, they’re going to say, Guy, what the hell are
0:05:09 you talking about?
0:05:14 What’s such a big breakthrough about asking yourself questions in the keynote to make
0:05:15 your own Q&A.
0:05:18 But trust me, you listeners, that is a brilliant insight.
0:05:20 I wish more people would do that.
0:05:27 Now in this fireside chat situation, it seems to me a lot of it is dependent upon the host
0:05:32 and how do you influence the host to quit asking you the dumbass questions and do you
0:05:37 give them the question, what do you do to try to foster a better fireside chat?
0:05:42 I spend a lot of time helping people with panel presentations, formal presentations,
0:05:43 pitches, those kind of things.
0:05:45 And a lot of it has to do with the prep work.
0:05:50 So if you’re being a panelist or somebody who’s being interviewed in a fireside chat,
0:05:54 try to talk to the person in advance and understand what is their goal for the interaction?
0:05:59 What do they want to get out and what do they hope that their audience gets out of it?
0:06:00 And then I am pretty directive.
0:06:04 I say, well, if those are your goals, then here’s some things I think I can share that
0:06:05 would be helpful.
0:06:06 What do you think?
0:06:10 And so I try to direct them without saying, here are the five questions I want and I certainly
0:06:13 don’t want these five, but I try to guide them that way.
0:06:14 So that’s the work before.
0:06:18 Now if in the midst of it, and I’m sure you’ve been in these circumstances as if I, people
0:06:23 start asking you questions and you’re like, this is either not really a question or this
0:06:25 is something that really doesn’t make sense.
0:06:30 I’ll actually help them reframe the questions and I’ll say things like, another way I look
0:06:32 at what you’ve just asked is this.
0:06:35 And then I form the question and answer it myself.
0:06:41 So I try to do it politely through paraphrasing and reframing to help them get back on track.
0:06:46 But the pre-work is really where I think the goal is in helping in those situations.
0:06:52 And when you are actually in a fireside chat, do you believe that you should be looking
0:06:56 at the host or at the audience when you answer?
0:07:03 I love this question because so many people, when they’re doing panels or fireside chats,
0:07:09 make it just a conversation between the moderator or interviewer and the panelist or fireside
0:07:10 chat guest.
0:07:12 It’s about the audience.
0:07:15 You don’t want the audience simply watching a tennis match where they’re just going back
0:07:16 and forth.
0:07:18 You need to engage them.
0:07:22 And I think the answer to your question comes from the words you use.
0:07:26 So when I answer questions, I’ll say things like, as everyone knows, or as many of you
0:07:31 have experienced, and when I use that language, it invites me to look at the audience and
0:07:34 even gesture towards them so I bring them into the conversation.
0:07:38 So if you ask me a very specific question, I might say, that’s something I’ve experienced
0:07:40 and I’m certain many people here have.
0:07:44 In fact, sometimes I’ll even take a poll, I’ll say, how many of you have had this experience?
0:07:46 So I get them engaged.
0:07:49 So it’s not them just watching the conversation, they’re part of it.
0:07:55 So the answer to your question is you use language, an inclusive language, to guide
0:07:56 where you look.
0:07:59 So I then am looking at the audience and when I’m done with my answer, I’ll come back to
0:08:02 the question asker or moderator and move on from there.
0:08:04 Okay, more brilliance.
0:08:10 When I’ve moderated panels, when I ask the panel a question, I purposely look out at
0:08:15 the audience and I don’t make eye contact with the panelists so that they cannot look
0:08:17 at me and answer to me.
0:08:21 I force them to not look at me because if they look at me, they’re going to just see
0:08:23 the side of my face.
0:08:24 I think that’s a great idea.
0:08:28 I think that’s very helpful and you as the moderator are guiding them where they should
0:08:30 put their attention.
0:08:31 And I think that’s great.
0:08:35 And I would, as the moderator or the interviewer beforehand, tell them, say, I want this to
0:08:38 be a connection with the audience, you don’t need to look at me.
0:08:42 And you can also, it’s where you position yourself as well, where you sit.
0:08:47 So if it’s a big panel, sitting perhaps on the end encourages them to look out because
0:08:51 it’s really hard to crane your head over to look at where you might be sitting.
0:08:52 Okay.
0:08:58 God, I love these kind of interviews where it’s so tactical and practical.
0:09:01 I hope people are taking notes.
0:09:08 What do you consider harder, a planned speech, a keynote speech or an extemporaneous answer?
0:09:15 To me today, where I am based on my experience in age, I actually like the more spontaneous
0:09:16 things.
0:09:18 And even a choice, I try to go in that direction.
0:09:23 But I realize that’s the result of a lot of practice that I’ve had and a lot of experimentation
0:09:26 and mistakes and growth.
0:09:30 For many people, a planned presentation is nerve-provoking enough.
0:09:33 And let’s work there where we have a bit more control.
0:09:37 But the reality is, most of our communication is spontaneous.
0:09:38 It’s impromptu.
0:09:39 It’s in the moment.
0:09:42 Someone asks a question, asks for feedback, we’re making small talk.
0:09:47 So learning to be more comfortable in those spontaneous moments helps you not just when
0:09:50 you’re up on a stage, but when you’re just interacting in life.
0:09:53 Most of our professional and personal interactions are spontaneous.
0:09:57 They’re not planned pitches, presentations or meetings with agendas.
0:09:58 So we all have to work on.
0:10:02 And the good news is, is that you can get better at the spontaneous stuff.
0:10:04 But you have to work at it.
0:10:06 Is there a kind of a superset?
0:10:10 If you’re good at formal presentations, you’ll be good at spontaneous.
0:10:13 Or if you’re good at spontaneous, you’ll be good at formal.
0:10:17 Or there are two distinct skills with very little overlap.
0:10:20 I think it’s a Venn diagram where there’s a fair amount of overlap, but it’s not always
0:10:21 the case.
0:10:27 I know some amazing speakers who can command a room, but when they go into Q&A or they’re
0:10:31 having one-on-one interactions and small talk, they are not very confident and they
0:10:36 don’t come off as professional and profound as they do on the stage.
0:10:40 So too, there are many people who just have that gift of gab and they’re able to really
0:10:43 connect in small talk and introducing themselves.
0:10:46 But when they get up on stage, it’s really challenging.
0:10:49 So there are a subset of skills that transfer to both.
0:10:52 But just because you’re good at one doesn’t mean you’re good at the other.
0:10:53 Okay.
0:10:55 That’s why we have to work on both.
0:10:58 Let’s say you gave a formal speech and then there was Q&A.
0:11:02 Now you’re done with the Q&A.
0:11:08 Do you just end with the answer to the last question or do you summarize and say, “Okay,
0:11:14 so I gave you a speech, I did this Q&A, now let me just rehash or let me summarize?”
0:11:17 Is there a closing statement or you answer the question and you say, “Thank you very
0:11:19 much,” and you walk off?
0:11:22 You absolutely need to wrap up.
0:11:23 I believe you start with gratitude.
0:11:24 Thank you for your time.
0:11:26 Thank you for your questions.
0:11:29 And then you have a one or two sentence wrap up.
0:11:33 You never know if your last answer is going to be a good one, nor do you know if the question
0:11:34 was a good one.
0:11:39 We know from science, specifically psychology about primacy and recency effects.
0:11:40 People remember what they hear last.
0:11:46 And if what they hear last is a mediocre answer to a mediocre question, they’re going to remember
0:11:47 that.
0:11:52 So really end with an exclamation point, express gratitude, say, “Thank you for those questions.
0:11:56 I hope you leave here with,” and then come back to that central point.
0:12:00 I think it’s a strong punctuation and it’s something you can prepare in advance.
0:12:11 You know what your key point was in the presentation, revisit it.
0:12:18 I want to know who is in the Matt Abrams Hall of Fame for spontaneous conversation?
0:12:23 Who do you point at and say, “My God, that guy or that gal has really got this wire?”
0:12:28 Clearly, I think the master, the grand master of spontaneous communication was Robin Williams,
0:12:31 just an amazing person, not just in his comedy.
0:12:35 I’ve spent a lot of time, I enjoy his comedy very much, and I’ve spent a lot of time looking
0:12:39 at and listening to his interviews, even the ones that were very serious.
0:12:43 And just the ability to formulate thoughts and support those thoughts, it was amazing.
0:12:44 But there are a lot of other people.
0:12:49 One of my favorite speakers is a young woman named Brittany Packnett.
0:12:55 She is a dynamo in plan speaking, but also just in Q&A skills, just brings herself fully,
0:13:00 has lots of confidence, and has an important message, which happens to be about confidence.
0:13:05 But there are many, many people, politicians, as hard as it can be to look at and listen
0:13:11 to them sometimes, they can be very good at that spontaneous speaking in a way of connecting.
0:13:13 So there are lots of good role models.
0:13:18 Oprah Winfrey is amazing in her question asking and answering.
0:13:22 So there’s some very accessible people that you can watch to see what they do.
0:13:26 But the one thing all of these folks do is they connect first.
0:13:28 It’s really about being present.
0:13:32 It’s about connecting and listening, and then responding appropriately.
0:13:34 And you can find that in many people.
0:13:37 Okay, so two offshoot questions from that.
0:13:39 So first of all, you said politicians.
0:13:45 Tell me who you think is a politician or multiple ones that are good at this?
0:13:49 Bill Clinton, regardless of your politics, I think was very good at connecting with people
0:13:52 and making you feel like you were being directly spoken to.
0:13:57 Something that was being said was very immediate in that moment, regardless of if he’d said
0:13:59 it several times before.
0:14:03 And I don’t know if you counter as a politician or not, but Michelle Obama has an amazing
0:14:08 ability to connect and to be really present with people and to respond in a way that makes
0:14:11 you feel that special connection.
0:14:13 So those are two that I call out all the time.
0:14:17 Okay, so let me ask a very specific question.
0:14:21 Who is the best Republican at doing this?
0:14:24 Oh, you’re putting me on the spot.
0:14:29 I tend to shy away from politics and politicians.
0:14:34 And he used to be a Democrat, so maybe, but Mitt Romney, actually, I had the opportunity
0:14:40 to see him speak in person, and he has that same ability to just have this presence.
0:14:42 And he’s got a presence physically.
0:14:46 I mean, you feel him in the room because of his size and voice.
0:14:49 He’s really good at also connecting, and he does something that at least in the situation
0:14:51 I saw him.
0:14:57 Before he speaks and connects, he’ll pause and he really looks at you, and then he starts
0:14:58 speaking.
0:15:00 An amazing connection that happens in that fraction of a second.
0:15:01 A lot of us just start talking.
0:15:06 We feel this sense of urgency in these moments to start speaking, and there’s a slight pause,
0:15:07 a slight connection.
0:15:09 And I was really impressed by that.
0:15:12 And I’m going to ask you an opinion of something that I do.
0:15:15 I have followed many speakers.
0:15:22 I’ve seen many speakers, and the more famous you are, the more detached you are.
0:15:27 And to take an extreme example, I once saw Cheryl Sandberg.
0:15:31 And Cheryl Sandberg, she travels with practically the secret service.
0:15:33 She has a personal assistant, personal assistant.
0:15:34 She has a bodyguard.
0:15:35 She has a bodyguard.
0:15:36 A bodyguard.
0:15:38 She has a driver and a driver’s driver.
0:15:42 And she has a PR person and a PR person’s PR person.
0:15:46 There’s like a contingent of 25 people, and they tell you not to look into her eyes, don’t
0:15:47 make eye contact.
0:15:49 And it’s all this whole bullshit.
0:15:54 And I have the opposite attitude that when I make a keynote speech, I go into the audience
0:15:59 before the speech, and I’ll take selfies, I’ll sign autographs, I’ll do whatever they
0:16:00 want.
0:16:04 Because when I start my speech, I want to look down in the first few rows, and I want
0:16:10 to see people smiling at me and relating to me because I just took a selfie with them.
0:16:12 I have the same approach you do.
0:16:15 I like to talk to the people in the room.
0:16:17 I like to learn a lot about them.
0:16:21 This is also a way that I help manage the anxiety that I can feel.
0:16:26 When I connect with people, I realize, one, that these are good people who believe I have
0:16:28 some value to bring.
0:16:30 And it helps me be present oriented.
0:16:34 I am somebody who can get into my head and worry about this or worry about that when
0:16:35 I’m speaking.
0:16:38 And if I’m talking to somebody, I have to be very present oriented.
0:16:39 I am of your ilk.
0:16:41 I like to do the same thing.
0:16:44 Sometimes I’m precluded from doing that just because of the environment and the venue.
0:16:48 So I actually go backstage and talk to the stage hands and to the other people.
0:16:51 I really try to find people to connect with.
0:16:57 It puts me in a good present moment space and reminds me that there’s value in what
0:17:00 I have to bring, and that excites me.
0:17:07 I give you another something that I do and I did it particularly pre-pandemic when I
0:17:09 was making a lot of in-person speeches.
0:17:17 So I would carry my own Countryman E6 and I would go to the AVP people and I say, “Listen,
0:17:18 I brought my own Countryman.
0:17:20 I want to use a Countryman.”
0:17:26 And it’s not so much that I insisted on a Countryman or insisted on a Lavalier.
0:17:31 But I think that when you go to the back of the room and you go to those AVP people and
0:17:36 you bring your own Countryman in their minds, they’re thinking, “This guy really knows his
0:17:37 shit.
0:17:40 This guy wants a really good sound.
0:17:44 We should make them as successful as we can.”
0:17:47 And that’s why I carried a Countryman.
0:17:49 I really like that approach.
0:17:51 I have always appreciated theater.
0:17:52 I am not willing to perform.
0:17:56 I’m happy to get up and speak, but performing is not my thing.
0:17:59 So I used to do sound and lights when I was in high school and even in college.
0:18:03 So I always try to connect with these folks just because I like the people that do that.
0:18:09 I love this idea of bringing your own technology and signaling that, “Hey, I know this stuff
0:18:12 and I want to make this a great experience for everybody in the room.”
0:18:15 And you’re implicitly saying, “You can help me do that.”
0:18:16 I think that’s great.
0:18:18 I love that you do that.
0:18:23 Now, circling back to something you said about making a connection, Oprah Winfrey making
0:18:25 a connection, et cetera, et cetera.
0:18:29 So of course, the obvious question is, “How do you make that connection?”
0:18:30 Yeah.
0:18:32 You’re a good example of this.
0:18:34 You have to be curious.
0:18:36 It’s all about curiosity.
0:18:39 Curiosity and empathy are the way that we connect.
0:18:44 And through that curiosity, through that empathy, we understand what’s relevant and salient
0:18:46 to people.
0:18:47 That’s about the mindset and approach.
0:18:48 I’m curious.
0:18:49 I want to learn.
0:18:54 When I do a presentation, when I teach, it’s all about the learning and the learning exchange
0:18:55 that happens.
0:18:56 So it’s not just me teaching.
0:18:58 It’s me learning from the audience.
0:19:01 Tactically, there’s some things you can do to really connect.
0:19:03 Use people’s names.
0:19:06 Use inclusive language, you, us, we.
0:19:11 I worked with a very senior leader at a very large tech company that you would know.
0:19:16 And he was getting up to give a keynote and he started by saying, “Knowledge workers must
0:19:17 blah, blah, blah.”
0:19:18 And I stopped him, time out.
0:19:20 I said, “Who are you speaking to?”
0:19:21 And he said, “Knowledge workers.”
0:19:22 I said, “So why don’t you say you?”
0:19:23 Right?
0:19:24 Because you’re disconnecting.
0:19:30 So using inclusive language, using gestures, orienting your body towards the person.
0:19:34 Using language that invites people to co-create something with you.
0:19:37 So for example, say, “What would it be like if?”
0:19:38 Imagine.
0:19:39 Picture this.
0:19:41 That kind of language co-creates a connection.
0:19:43 We together are envisioning that same thing.
0:19:48 So there are very tactical things you can do in terms of body posturing language you
0:19:51 use that foster that connection.
0:19:54 But it comes from the approach of curiosity and empathy.
0:19:58 One thing when I first started reading the book, I was scratching my head a little bit
0:20:05 because saying to myself, “Wow, he’s making you so much preparation work and so much planning
0:20:08 for something that’s supposed to be spontaneous.”
0:20:09 Yes.
0:20:13 You’re telling me I have to go through all of this in the off chance that I go to a staff
0:20:18 meeting and the off chance that my boss asked me to answer a question.
0:20:19 Are you serious?
0:20:23 Are you supposed to do all that just in case something happens?
0:20:27 I’d like to address the second part of your question and then the first part.
0:20:29 This will absolutely happen.
0:20:33 Every day, you are experiencing many, many spontaneous speaking situations.
0:20:35 So this is not the one-off.
0:20:38 This is, yeah, maybe your boss will ask you a question and that has high significance.
0:20:42 But the colleague that you walked to the meeting with who asked for feedback about the previous
0:20:44 meeting, same situation.
0:20:48 Maybe the stakes are different, but it sure would be good to feel comfortable in that moment.
0:20:50 We are always spontaneously speaking.
0:20:53 So preparing to do that, I think, makes sense.
0:20:57 Now the book lays out a six step methodology.
0:21:01 It is ideal if you go through all six steps, but any single one of those steps will help
0:21:03 you be more comfortable and confident.
0:21:08 So at first it can seem like that’s a lot of work and it seems counterintuitive to prepare
0:21:09 to be spontaneous.
0:21:15 But think of this, any sport you’ve ever played, any athlete spends a lot of time doing drills
0:21:22 and working out so that in the game that happens spontaneously, they can respond well.
0:21:27 And I firmly believe that the investment time you put up front saves you tremendous amount
0:21:32 of time on the back end where you have to fix your faux pas, say it again because people
0:21:34 didn’t get it and you weren’t clear.
0:21:37 So there is an investment just like in any skill.
0:21:40 If you learn to play an instrument, learn to play a new sport, but it is well worth it
0:21:43 and helps save time on the back end.
0:21:49 So why don’t you give us the gist of this preparation work, this six steps?
0:21:50 Sure.
0:21:51 Happy to do so.
0:21:55 The six steps fall into two major categories, mindset and messaging.
0:21:58 When it comes to mindset, there are really four things we have to do.
0:21:59 First we have to manage our anxiety.
0:22:04 And I provide lots of techniques that are based on academic research to actually calm
0:22:06 ourselves down.
0:22:09 Most people feel anxiety in communication.
0:22:14 The level of intensity and the type of communication varies, but there are things we can do to
0:22:15 manage that anxiety.
0:22:21 Second, we have to see these circumstances as opportunities, not threats.
0:22:25 When you go into a meeting and you know your boss is going to ask you questions, many of
0:22:29 us feel very threatened by that, like I have to defend my position.
0:22:33 We can reframe that and say this is an opportunity to show what I’ve done, to connect, to learn
0:22:34 from my boss.
0:22:36 That mental shift can really help.
0:22:41 Many times in these circumstances, in all communications, we want to be perfect.
0:22:44 We want to communicate perfectly.
0:22:46 I’ve been doing this for many, many decades.
0:22:48 There is no right way to communicate.
0:22:51 There are better ways and worse ways, but there’s no one right way.
0:22:56 And putting all this pressure on ourselves makes it harder to actually get the communication
0:22:57 across.
0:23:02 We are taking that limited cognitive bandwidth we have, and we’re splitting it to pay attention
0:23:06 to what we’re saying, how we’re saying it and judging, versus investing it all and actually
0:23:09 connecting and getting our information across.
0:23:13 And then the final mindset portion is listening.
0:23:16 Listening is critical to effective communication.
0:23:20 If we don’t listen well, which many of us don’t, we only listen for the top line.
0:23:22 We need to listen for the bottom line.
0:23:25 That can help us then respond appropriately.
0:23:27 So that’s mindset.
0:23:30 Messaging, from my perspective, is about two things.
0:23:35 Sure, having a clear framework rather than just listing and itemizing information.
0:23:40 Our brains don’t do well when they’re overloaded with information, so structuring it, packaging
0:23:42 it up can really help.
0:23:45 And then the last part of this is making it focused.
0:23:47 Many of us say much more than we need to.
0:23:51 I believe the most precious commodity in the world today is attention.
0:23:58 And if I ramble on in an unfocused way, I’m making it very hard for you to focus your attention.
0:24:00 My mom has this famous saying.
0:24:04 I know she didn’t create it, but it’s tell the time, don’t build the clock.
0:24:08 And many of us, when we communicate, are clock builders.
0:24:12 And so having a structure helps you focus and makes it easier for your audience to understand.
0:24:17 So if you take any one of those steps, I firmly believe you will be better in your communication.
0:24:34 If you apply multiple steps, you’ll even be better.
0:24:38 Yesterday I reviewed somebody’s pitch.
0:24:44 And I have this famous Guy Kawasaki 10-20-30 rule of powerpoint, 10 slides, 20 minutes,
0:24:46 30 point font minimum.
0:24:53 And I gotta tell you, man, everybody who I review their pitch, they say, I love 10-20-30
0:24:54 rule.
0:25:02 And then they show up with 25 slides, 60 minutes, and 12 point font complete sentences.
0:25:05 And I’m saying to myself, what the hell is happening?
0:25:11 You told me you read 10-20-30, you show up with 50, 50, 70.
0:25:13 What is the problem?
0:25:14 That’s about structure, right?
0:25:17 I think people don’t understand that structure sets you free.
0:25:20 It doesn’t hem you in.
0:25:22 Absolutely, 100%.
0:25:24 I’ve learned this in many areas of my life.
0:25:29 If you’ve ever done anything with improvisation, you know that improv is not a free for all.
0:25:31 They’re following very specific rules.
0:25:35 I have been fascinated by this notion of how structure sets us free.
0:25:38 I’ve looked into jazz musicians, two things that were fascinating.
0:25:43 I talked to a playground designer, somebody who designs playgrounds.
0:25:48 And they literally have play structures, but they structure the play structures in such
0:25:52 a way to guide the kids through the experience.
0:25:54 So it’s not just a free for all.
0:25:56 They actually have a logic to it.
0:26:02 I interviewed the gentleman who is in charge of Lego, the bricks, their manuals.
0:26:06 I’ve been fascinated by Lego manuals forever because they have no words.
0:26:13 And yet, when you compare them to other manuals from countries nearby, like Ikea, night and
0:26:18 day, the power of a clearly well-structured document.
0:26:23 And what he told me, which I found fascinating is Lego manuals have a structure to them.
0:26:28 If you think about it, each step in a Lego manual could be exactly the same thing.
0:26:30 Same number of bricks, same number of steps.
0:26:32 But instead, they vary that.
0:26:35 So you have an emotional experience as you go through it.
0:26:40 The structure sets the person building it free to do these creative things rather than
0:26:43 being very regimented, saying you will do this number of steps along the way.
0:26:46 I totally agree that structure sets you free.
0:26:48 And I love your rule.
0:26:52 And I encourage people to apply that rule to their slides and to their pitches.
0:26:54 I think people can appreciate it, Guy, but when they get in front of you, they want to
0:26:58 show more detail than they probably need to.
0:27:02 I keep telling people, it’s the glance test.
0:27:08 And the glance test I learned from Nancy Duarte, which is people should glance at your slide,
0:27:13 understand it, and then start looking back at you, not stare at the slide.
0:27:20 And then yesterday, I told this guy, you gave me Microsoft Word, the whizzy wig print format.
0:27:23 I want you to switch to outline.
0:27:25 I just want to see the outline.
0:27:27 I don’t want to see the whole text.
0:27:33 And then when I read your book, I read that page about how Google can describe their business
0:27:35 in 12 words, right?
0:27:38 So I took a picture of your book of that page.
0:27:39 I sent it to him.
0:27:45 If Google can describe their entire business in 12 words, how the hell is it that you need
0:27:47 20 slides to describe your business?
0:27:51 I don’t understand that, but we’ll see what he says.
0:27:53 I actually had a similar circumstance.
0:27:55 So I teach at Stanford’s Business School.
0:27:59 And I sometimes work in these programs where they bring in groups of entrepreneurs.
0:28:03 So I was doing this program where there were 25 entrepreneurial teams.
0:28:07 And they gave me 30 minutes with each team to help them in their communication.
0:28:09 And I would ask these teams, I would say, we got 30 minutes.
0:28:12 Help me understand what you do, because I’d never met these people.
0:28:15 And it would take them 20, 25 minutes to explain.
0:28:18 So I’d end up with five minutes to coach them.
0:28:21 So I finally came up with this way to do a quick elevator pitch.
0:28:24 It’s four sentence starters.
0:28:28 And if they just answer those four sentence starters, it gives me enough information to
0:28:29 help.
0:28:30 So I asked them to finish these sentences.
0:28:35 What if you could sew that, for example, and that’s not all?
0:28:40 And I think anybody pitching a business or pitching an idea, if you answer those four
0:28:43 prompts, you give a tight, clear answer.
0:28:44 Yeah.
0:28:45 I love that.
0:28:48 What if you could sew that, for example, and that’s not all?
0:28:52 And it can really help give clarity.
0:28:53 Because you’re right.
0:28:55 The glance test, I call it the billboard test, like you’re driving down the freeway and you
0:28:58 look at a billboard, you should be able to tell what it means quickly.
0:29:02 You got to be able to do that with your pitches, with your ideas and meetings.
0:29:04 Otherwise, people tune out.
0:29:06 I’m going to rip that off from you, too.
0:29:11 The metaphor that I use, I tell people that you are in an airplane.
0:29:13 There are two kinds of airplanes.
0:29:16 One airplane is an A380 or a 787.
0:29:20 Another is an F16 on a carrier deck.
0:29:24 And I want you to be Tom Cruise taking off from that carrier deck.
0:29:28 And if you don’t get off the deck in 150 meters, you fall in the ocean and you die.
0:29:33 But you are that guy, Captain Sully, and he couldn’t get the airplane off.
0:29:35 So he had to land in the East River.
0:29:36 That’s what you do.
0:29:39 You need two miles of runway and you land in the river.
0:29:40 So be Tom Cruise.
0:29:42 I think they tack it as an example.
0:29:43 Excellent.
0:29:44 I love it.
0:29:45 Top Gun is what it’s all about.
0:29:47 Instead of taking that long launch time.
0:29:48 Absolutely.
0:29:49 Absolutely.
0:29:50 I love the analogy.
0:29:51 You can take my pitch formula.
0:29:55 I’m going to take that analogy because that’s exactly what we need.
0:29:56 Good trade.
0:30:01 You know, one thing I learned from Steve Jobs is you have to know what to steal.
0:30:06 That in itself is a skill that people don’t appreciate.
0:30:07 That’s right.
0:30:12 And I think AI is an interesting venue for people to practice that lesson.
0:30:13 What do you take and what don’t you take?
0:30:15 Oh, tell me more.
0:30:16 How would you…
0:30:17 Okay.
0:30:18 This is a very good question.
0:30:23 How would you use an LLM to improve your spontaneity in conversations?
0:30:24 Great question.
0:30:25 Great question.
0:30:28 And I actually instruct and encourage my students to do this.
0:30:29 Let’s imagine.
0:30:31 We’ll just take a job interview, for example.
0:30:33 Let’s imagine you’re going to interview with a company.
0:30:38 Go to your favorite LLM and type in interviewing for this role at this company with somebody
0:30:40 in this position.
0:30:47 Give me five questions that allow me to demonstrate my capabilities in X, whatever it is, and
0:30:48 it’ll spit out questions.
0:30:51 And as it does, practice answering the questions.
0:30:56 Not to memorize, but just to get agile at answering questions.
0:31:01 An athlete has an opponent who will do the defensive moves or the offensive moves so
0:31:02 they can practice defense.
0:31:04 Use an LLM in the same way.
0:31:10 If you’re a non-native speaker to the language that you’re going to go to a cocktail party
0:31:16 in, maybe ask it to generate some questions for a cocktail party following a keynote address
0:31:21 by Guy Kawasaki, and it’ll come up with some interesting questions that you can answer.
0:31:23 I think an LLM can really help.
0:31:26 Again, the goal, though, isn’t to memorize your answers.
0:31:29 The goal is to drill the answering.
0:31:33 Oh, that’s another thing worth ripping off from you.
0:31:37 You have the highest quotient of stuff to rip off in anybody I’ve interviewed.
0:31:38 I don’t consider it ripping off.
0:31:39 I’m a teacher.
0:31:40 I want people to use these skills.
0:31:41 Go for it.
0:31:45 Yeah, but ripping off is more dramatic term.
0:31:50 I’m curious, Guy, how would you use an LLM to help in your communication?
0:31:52 You do so much communication and you’re so creative.
0:31:53 I’m curious.
0:31:56 How would you use it to help?
0:32:01 Until 60 seconds ago, I never even considered using it to help.
0:32:02 Okay.
0:32:03 All right.
0:32:04 I swear to God.
0:32:06 That question just popped into my brain.
0:32:07 I never considered an LLM.
0:32:11 I’m going to give you homework because I would love to get your insight into how you could
0:32:15 use it and to hear from you because I’d love to be able to get up in front of my class
0:32:21 and be able to say, “Hey, Guy does this with an LLM to help in his communication.”
0:32:26 I could think offhand that, let’s say that I was giving a speech about innovation and
0:32:32 I went to chat GPT and I said, “Give me examples of companies who did not embrace the future
0:32:34 and died because of it.”
0:32:35 Yeah.
0:32:41 Then the LLM will say Kodak, Blockbuster, Smith Corona, Remington Rand, and then it
0:32:45 would come up with some example you never heard of and I would take that.
0:32:46 Exactly.
0:32:50 And actually you’re highlighting another really effective use of it that I encourage
0:32:51 for my students.
0:33:00 One of the things that can help you in spontaneous speaking is to stockpile ideas, stories, anecdotes,
0:33:02 facts that you can then pull in.
0:33:07 At the highest level, the analogy I will often use for what my approach to spontaneous speaking
0:33:08 is all about.
0:33:09 It’s like cooking.
0:33:14 A structure is a recipe and the best chefs in the best restaurants can prepare their
0:33:18 meals quickly because they prepared a bunch of stuff in advance.
0:33:21 They have everything chopped and sauteed and ready.
0:33:22 They have the recipe.
0:33:23 They just assemble it.
0:33:30 So you can use an LLM to help you come up with examples and anecdotes that you can then,
0:33:33 when appropriate, not memorized, not like I’m always going to say this, but when appropriate,
0:33:37 I can pull from that stockpile and that can really help you.
0:33:40 So I think that’s a great idea.
0:33:41 Okay.
0:33:45 What do you tell people about how to appear spontaneous virtually?
0:33:51 How does the game change when it’s virtual?
0:33:53 Virtual communication makes it really hard.
0:33:58 What I like to do is add interactivity that necessitates spontaneity.
0:34:03 When I’m on a Zoom team, Meet, WebEx, whatever, I might say, “Hey, give me a quick thumbs
0:34:09 up if you’ve ever done this,” or, “How many of you have given an introduction to yourself
0:34:10 that you felt went really well?
0:34:11 Give me that little party horn.”
0:34:16 So I’m asking people to use the reaction buttons, which I then respond to.
0:34:19 So I say, “Wow, that’s everybody,” or, “I’m surprised, I thought there’d be more.”
0:34:24 So I’m making it interactive, which gets their attention, right?
0:34:28 Because when you’re on these virtual sessions, it is tempting to check your TikTok, your
0:34:29 email.
0:34:34 So by having them interact and engaging and giving feedback on that interaction, it involves
0:34:38 them more and it clearly demonstrates spontaneity because I didn’t know what those responses
0:34:39 were going to be.
0:34:44 When I have people type into the chat, I’ll invite other people to take the stage and
0:34:47 I’ll pin them and they can talk a little bit and then I bring them back.
0:34:51 So there are lots of things that you can do to engage people.
0:34:55 You have to be more conscious of it and you have to do them more frequently than you might
0:34:56 do in person.
0:35:01 So when I teach virtually every six to eight minutes, I try to do some kind of interactive
0:35:06 piece, even if it’s simply saying, “Are there questions or give me a quick thumbs up,”
0:35:11 try to keep the intention engaged just because there’s some research that says every eight
0:35:13 to 10 minutes, you need to shift things up.
0:35:16 I like to do a little more frequently than that, just to keep people focused.
0:35:20 Okay, that’s another thing I’m going to rip off from you.
0:35:21 I never even thought of that.
0:35:25 I never asked for interaction in a Zoom speech.
0:35:27 Okay, that’s another thing.
0:35:28 All right.
0:35:31 Up next, unremarkable people.
0:35:33 When people say, “Matt, how do you know if your book was successful?”
0:35:37 To me, my book will be successful if people are dog-earing pages.
0:35:38 They’re underlighting, highlighting.
0:35:44 They’re going back to it before they have a situation because that’s how you need to
0:35:46 prepare for communication.
0:35:49 The best way to help people do that is to have a clear, concise structure so they can
0:35:53 get back to it quickly.
0:35:56 Thank you to all our regular podcast listeners.
0:35:59 It’s our pleasure and honor to make the show for you.
0:36:04 If you find our show valuable, please do us a favor and subscribe, rate, and review it.
0:36:11 Even better, forward it to a friend, a big mahalo to you for doing this.
0:36:16 You’re listening to Remarkable People with Guy Kawasaki.
0:36:17 Next topic, man.
0:36:23 I feel like I have my personal speech coach and psychiatrist helping me right now.
0:36:27 I feel more comfortable and confident being a speech coach than a psychiatrist, but happy
0:36:28 to.
0:36:34 Well, there’s a fine line between those two things, man.
0:36:35 That’s probably true.
0:36:36 That’s true.
0:36:37 That’s true.
0:36:38 All right.
0:36:40 Now, how do you feel about profanity?
0:36:42 Hello, good.
0:36:44 Let me share a couple of thoughts about profanity.
0:36:48 I have worked with some people, you and I have both worked with people in common who
0:36:49 swear a lot.
0:36:53 In fact, there’s this one executive, the way I knew I was really getting through is the
0:36:57 more F-bombs he would drop in our interactions.
0:36:59 Let me share a couple of things about profanity.
0:37:04 One, there is research around anxiety management that says swearing actually helps you feel
0:37:05 more confident.
0:37:09 It has to do with the neurochemicals that we release when we swear.
0:37:15 When we cuss, it actually releases a cascade of neurochemicals that blunt cortisol, and
0:37:18 cortisol is the big pusher of the anxiety symptoms that we feel.
0:37:23 I’m not saying you should go out on stage and cuss and curse, but maybe before you go
0:37:27 out on stage, it can help you feel less nervous.
0:37:34 Cursing can serve to add in the actual speaking emphasis, but it can also be very off-putting.
0:37:38 You have to read the room and you have to know what’s appropriate, and certainly it’s
0:37:39 not binary.
0:37:42 There are some swear words that are probably more appropriate.
0:37:47 I say crap all the time and hell all the time, but I might not drop an F-bomb, right?
0:37:49 It really depends.
0:37:52 It’s your personality, and it depends what’s appropriate.
0:37:54 You want it to add emphasis.
0:37:58 You don’t want it to take people out of the conversations because they’re so shocked or
0:37:59 surprised by it.
0:38:05 I once had this conversation with Gary Vaynerchuk, and I said, “Gary, if I were you, I would
0:38:10 stop dropping the F-bomb so often,” and he gave this whole explanation about authenticity
0:38:13 and being himself and all that.
0:38:17 At the end, I said to Gary, “Gary, you have kids in 10 years from now.
0:38:18 They’re going to watch videos of you.
0:38:24 You want them to see you doing that,” and I think I made him pause for a second there,
0:38:25 but we’ll see.
0:38:28 I’ll tell you a funny story.
0:38:35 The first person to drop the F-bomb in my podcast was of all people, Margaret Atwood.
0:38:41 I often tell this story because that is such a shocker to people, right?
0:38:42 I’m very cognizant.
0:38:45 I don’t want to come off as a profane person.
0:38:51 I think that profanity often shows that this person is not that smart.
0:38:57 They cannot think of any other way to do something than to swear, so I don’t want to look stupid,
0:38:59 not on purpose anyway.
0:39:04 I often say, “Listen, Margaret Atwood was the first person to drop an F-bomb on my
0:39:11 podcast,” and I’ll tell you the whole story if you are willing to tolerate me saying the
0:39:15 F-bomb twice, and then the audience always says, “Yeah, okay, go for it,” and then I
0:39:19 tell them the story, and it works very well.
0:39:23 Right, but you’re asking permission and you’re preparing them for it, which is different
0:39:25 than just dropping it right away.
0:39:26 I like that.
0:39:27 I would agree.
0:39:33 I equate swearing in speaking to using a laser pointer when referring to a slide.
0:39:36 It is the easy way to highlight something.
0:39:41 I think, as you well know, that you can design a slide with a lot of subtle things that can
0:39:45 highlight what you want without using the laser pointer.
0:39:49 I think in your communication, you can highlight and accomplish what you want without using
0:39:51 swearing.
0:39:55 That’s not to say that occasionally it doesn’t make sense for authenticity or in the moment,
0:39:59 but it’s a blunt instrument, and I think we can do the same thing in a more subtle,
0:40:00 artful way if we choose.
0:40:05 Okay, so now, God, you are just a fountain of wisdom.
0:40:12 So, I never use a laser pointer, and after that conversation, I never will, because you
0:40:17 essentially said, “If you need a laser pointer, something’s wrong with your presentation.”
0:40:18 I love that.
0:40:23 There are not words that describe how much I hate and disdain laser pointers.
0:40:26 No one uses them well, and you’re using it because you didn’t design the slide right
0:40:28 or structure your content right.
0:40:30 I do not like laser pointers.
0:40:34 I think there are far better ways to highlight what you’re trying to do, and I encourage people
0:40:35 to do that.
0:40:38 If I got anybody listening to this to stop using a laser pointer, I feel very good about
0:40:40 my success today.
0:40:42 Maybe somebody at Logitech is listening.
0:40:46 They’ll take the laser pointer out of the Logitech remote, and then we’ll solve the
0:40:48 problem for the whole industry.
0:40:55 So, at the second half of your book, you talk about specific situations, and I got to tell
0:41:02 you, I love the one about small talk, and if I may paraphrase this, you said when you’re
0:41:09 having small talk, there’s a structure to it, which is you address what, so what, and
0:41:10 now what.
0:41:15 So, can you explain that concept because I loved it.
0:41:16 Thank you.
0:41:17 So, a lot of people dread small talk.
0:41:20 I actually think you and I together, you could help me.
0:41:21 We need to rebrand small talk.
0:41:22 Good stuff.
0:41:24 Big things happen in small talk.
0:41:29 In fact, if you think about your friends, chances are somebody in your immediate friendship
0:41:31 network, you met through small talk.
0:41:37 You do good things in small talk, but we feel really awkward and uncomfortable in those situations,
0:41:40 and it’s often around, “What do I say, and how do I say it?”
0:41:44 As I mentioned earlier, I’m a big fan of structure, and one of my favorite structures
0:41:45 is what you mentioned.
0:41:48 It’s three simple questions, what, so what, and now what.
0:41:51 You can use this in myriad situations.
0:41:53 I call it the Swiss Army Knife of Structures.
0:41:57 I can use it giving an update, the what is my update, the so what is why my update’s
0:42:00 important, and now what is what the contingencies are for moving forward.
0:42:05 I can give you feedback in this format, the what is my feedback, the so what is why my
0:42:07 feedback’s important, and my now what is what I’d like to see differently.
0:42:11 I can write emails in it, I can introduce myself in it, but it works really well for
0:42:18 small talk, both as the initiator of small talk and the responder to small talk.
0:42:22 If I come up to you at a party and I don’t know you, I can simply say, “Hey, what brings
0:42:23 you here?”
0:42:24 That’s the what.
0:42:26 Then when you respond, I’ll say, “Oh, why is that important to you?”
0:42:27 That’s the so what.
0:42:28 Then I can say, “Now what?
0:42:29 What are we going to talk about next?
0:42:31 What are we going to do?”
0:42:35 Simply asking the three questions, get the conversation going.
0:42:39 The secret of small talk is to get the other person talking.
0:42:41 It makes it less awkward.
0:42:44 My mother-in-law had a black belt in small talk.
0:42:46 She was amazing.
0:42:50 Her secret was three words, “Tell me more.”
0:42:53 When somebody would say something, she’d pause and say, “Tell me more,” and she’d get
0:42:54 the person speaking more.
0:42:57 What so what now what is a way of doing that?
0:43:02 When somebody asks you something in small talk, you can answer or respond in what so
0:43:03 what now what.
0:43:06 If you ask me a question, I can answer, “That’s my what.”
0:43:09 I can then tell you why I think it’s important.
0:43:13 The now what might be a question back to you or connecting it to somebody else or something
0:43:14 else that happened.
0:43:19 It’s a tool that you can use in many circumstances, but for small talk, what so what now what
0:43:23 can be how you initiate or how you respond?
0:43:25 That is a brilliant structure.
0:43:29 I’ve never really asked myself if I’m good at small talk.
0:43:33 I think I am, but now that I have this structure, I will be better in small talk.
0:43:38 You’ll start to see people using it and you’ll say, “I see what they’re doing there.”
0:43:41 We enjoy small talk and we just have the experience of it, but if we get meta for a moment and
0:43:46 look at what they’re doing, you’ll see that they’re typically inviting us to participate.
0:43:51 They are continuing the conversation that we initiated, so they’re keeping it moving
0:43:52 and that’s the key.
0:43:59 You also specifically address pitching and you talk about the three components which
0:44:04 is bring up the problem, the solution, and the benefit.
0:44:09 Here is something that I question you because I have heard thousands of pitches.
0:44:15 In fact, I think that I am deaf because of all the shitty pitches I’ve listened to.
0:44:20 It’s a byproduct of being a venture capitalist and a tech executive, but let’s not violate
0:44:21 HIPAA too much.
0:44:27 Now, you say in your section about pitching that you start by describing the problem.
0:44:35 My experience, Matt, is that people waste way too much time describing the problem and
0:44:36 they just go on and on.
0:44:41 They want to talk about, “Okay, so climate change is a problem and blah, blah, blah.”
0:44:46 Like 15 minutes later, everybody knows climate change is a problem.
0:44:52 That’s the right amount of discussion of the problem because I think people do it too much.
0:44:58 It makes them into Evan Solley in their 737 in the East River, not Tom Cruise.
0:45:02 I absolutely see the same thing you do.
0:45:05 Problem solution benefit is a very useful structure when you’re trying to persuade or
0:45:07 influence anybody.
0:45:10 If you think about it, most television advertisements use that structure as well.
0:45:13 Here’s some challenge issue or opportunity.
0:45:16 Here’s how our product or service solves it and here’s the benefit to you.
0:45:17 A couple of things.
0:45:18 You’re right.
0:45:22 You have to figure out how much depth to go into each of the sections, not just the problem
0:45:23 section.
0:45:27 You need to give people enough to orient them so that they can understand and appreciate
0:45:30 the relevance and value of your solution.
0:45:34 Sometimes it’s simply through an analogy, so it can be very quick.
0:45:37 You can launch out that aircraft carrier very quickly.
0:45:39 Other times it needs to be more detailed.
0:45:45 The mistake many people make and I think you’ve been victimized by it many times is in describing
0:45:50 the problem what people are trying to do is demonstrate their competence in the area.
0:45:55 I think there are many other ways to demonstrate your competence that doesn’t come in your
0:45:56 description of the problem.
0:46:03 For anybody pitching anything to VCs, if you’re an entrepreneur or just to your PTA, if you’re
0:46:08 a parent, think about what is the least amount of information I need to give to orient people
0:46:13 to the problem or opportunity that I am presenting and start there.
0:46:16 Instead of thinking, “What are all the things I have to say?”
0:46:20 Think to yourself, “What is the least I have to say to orient people?”
0:46:24 Because otherwise, you’re going to get overwhelmed and people are going to get bored.
0:46:27 Tell the time, don’t build the clock when you’re establishing the problem.
0:46:32 I just want to make a general comment that you have my book, so you know how organized
0:46:37 it is and everything starts with a verb and it’s very structured.
0:46:39 Your book is also very structured.
0:46:41 I truly appreciate it.
0:46:47 I read so many business books and they go on for five, six pages without any headings
0:46:52 or subheadings or bullets and it just drives me crazy.
0:46:55 I think your book is just structured so well.
0:46:57 I love your structure of your book.
0:46:58 I love the tips.
0:47:02 I love to try this and these case studies and stuff.
0:47:03 Thank you.
0:47:06 The way to learn communication is to do communication.
0:47:10 That’s why in the very end of the book, I have a QR code that takes people to a bunch of videos
0:47:14 because again, you can learn a lot by reading something but when it comes to communication,
0:47:16 you have to see it.
0:47:20 You have to experience it and I’m somebody who believes very firmly in structure so it
0:47:21 was important to me to structure it.
0:47:24 When people say, “Matt, how do you know if your book was successful?”
0:47:28 To me, my book will be successful if people are dog-earing pages.
0:47:29 They’re underlighting, highlighting.
0:47:34 They’re going back to it before they have a situation because that’s how you need to
0:47:36 prepare for communication.
0:47:40 The best way to help people do that is to have a clear, concise structure so they can
0:47:42 get back to it quickly.
0:47:44 One last question here.
0:47:51 It’s a question that I think many people don’t know how to do and it is how to apologize.
0:47:56 Give us the Matt Abrams analysis of what makes a remarkable apology.
0:47:57 Yeah.
0:48:03 First, I don’t think we have to strive for being remarkable but I know we do in your
0:48:06 approach to things but that puts a lot of pressure on people.
0:48:11 I think we just have to start from a place of saying, “I made a mistake.
0:48:12 There’s a faux pas.
0:48:15 There’s something that needs to be addressed and adjusted.”
0:48:22 We start by simply acknowledging what it is that we’ve done and we have to be very clear.
0:48:26 What many people do when they apologize is they apologize for how we’ve made someone
0:48:27 feel.
0:48:30 We say, “I’m sorry you feel bad.”
0:48:31 That’s not an apology.
0:48:34 That’s not for the behavior that you did.
0:48:39 The first thing we have to do is we have to acknowledge what it is that we did.
0:48:42 The first step is acknowledgement, being very clear.
0:48:47 It might be something like, “I’m sorry that I over spoke when you were speaking.
0:48:50 I stepped in and spoke and cut you off.”
0:48:53 That’s the acknowledgement of the offending behavior.
0:48:58 The second thing we have to do is we have to appreciate how that behavior might have
0:49:00 impacted the person.
0:49:04 I understand that that might have made you feel like I didn’t value your thoughts and
0:49:08 that put you in a bad light with the rest of us around it.
0:49:09 We acknowledge and then we appreciate.
0:49:14 The most important part is to make an amend to say what you’re going to do differently.
0:49:18 In this case, I might say, “The next time we’re in a meeting together, I will make sure
0:49:24 to speak last and to paraphrase what I have heard others say before I share my contribution.”
0:49:25 It’s AAA.
0:49:26 I like structures.
0:49:28 I like acronyms to help people remember.
0:49:32 AAA, just like roadside service, helps you when you’re in a bad situation.
0:49:36 You acknowledge, you appreciate, and then you make amends.
0:49:42 If you invoke AAA, you can be in a much better position for helping you to get through an
0:49:43 apology.
0:49:50 I have to say that I don’t know anybody who uses acronyms as well as you do, man.
0:49:51 You are Mr. Acronym.
0:49:52 Oh my God.
0:49:55 There are more acronyms in your book.
0:49:56 I love your acronyms.
0:49:59 I’ll take time to define them because too many acronyms can be overwhelming, but I do
0:50:04 try to define it because I want people to be able to easily access the information.
0:50:10 I have found that chat GPT is actually quite helpful for something like that.
0:50:11 That’s great.
0:50:15 I’m going to rip that off from you because I have never used chat GPT to help me and
0:50:18 I can see how that would be really helpful.
0:50:20 Oh yeah, absolutely.
0:50:24 When I was structuring my book, my book is growth, grit, and grace.
0:50:28 I love tricholins and I love alliteration.
0:50:34 So I had growth and grit and then I asked chat GPT, I need another thing that’s one
0:50:42 syllable starts with GR and it came up with grace and then I thought, but grace is more
0:50:49 about athleticism and really the word I want is graciousness took my artistic license and
0:50:54 now grace is the same thing as gracious in my mind.
0:50:55 Absolutely.
0:50:56 No, I like it.
0:50:59 I’m a big fan of alliteration and rhyme and when I talk about listening in my book, I
0:51:03 borrowed from a colleague of mine, Pace Space Grace as well.
0:51:06 So yes, things that are memorable are really important.
0:51:08 When you’re in the moment, that’s what can help you.
0:51:12 As I reach the end of my life, I may have to write a book that has like growth, grit,
0:51:18 and grave because that’s another GR alliteration.
0:51:19 That’ll be on the tombstone.
0:51:23 That’s all right, growth, grit, and grave.
0:51:28 With an arrow pointing down, right?
0:51:30 I’m finally centered.
0:51:31 Yeah.
0:51:32 Yes, exactly.
0:51:33 Exactly.
0:51:38 Well positioned.
0:51:45 I hope you learned how to communicate remarkably from Matt Abraham’s communicating one to
0:51:51 one or one to few is a key skill if you want to make a difference and be remarkable.
0:51:57 Yes, I know all about making pictures and making keynote speeches, but I’m telling you, the
0:52:02 real rubber meets the road when you’re in a small group or one on one.
0:52:04 I’m Guy Kawasaki.
0:52:10 This is Remarkable People and if you see me speak and there’s Q&A, let me know if I’m
0:52:16 doing it better than I used to before and now let me thank the Remarkable People team
0:52:21 because we are all aligned behind you trying to help you make a difference and change the
0:52:24 world and be remarkable.
0:52:29 So we have Matt as a Nismar, who’s the producer and the co-author of Think Remarkable.
0:52:35 Tessa Nismar, a researcher, Luis Magana, Fallon Yates, and Alexis Nishimura.
0:52:40 We are the Remarkable People team and we got your back.
0:52:43 We are going to help you make a difference and be remarkable.
0:52:53 Until next time, mahalo and aloha.