Moment 209: The Real Reason You’re Gaining Weight (Even If You’re Exercising!)

0:00:07 with my genetic makeup yep um how might there be differences in my genetic makeup that make
0:00:13 my relationship with food and eating and weight loss different from yours oh okay i i probably
0:00:20 don’t have as good an answer genetics does not have as good an answer about why different people
0:00:26 eat differently aside from cultural differences at the moment okay so so the genetics the reason
0:00:31 behind that is because it’s very difficult to accurately determine what someone has eaten
0:00:38 in order to do genetics what we do know because we can actually observe is how people of different
0:00:44 ethnicities have are susceptible to different diseases so famously um east asian people people
0:00:51 that look like me south asian people indian pakistanis uh bangladeshis cannot get as large
0:00:59 bmi wise before becoming at risk of type 2 diabetes right compared to white people polynesians
0:01:04 famously okay who can get pretty large before they actually end up getting diseases so that’s a
0:01:10 classic example where this is why south asian people east asian people have a higher predisposition of
0:01:18 diabetes even though obesity is not particularly a big thing in their um in in their cultures but then
0:01:23 you then begin to look at body shape that does that does matter as uh matter as well where do you put
0:01:29 your fat do you tend to put the fat on your bum on your tummy you know what is your um how tall are
0:01:36 you how short are you and all of these things which we can see visually we we we can see um there are
0:01:41 people who are then susceptible or not susceptible to specific diseases other things you can’t see
0:01:47 okay why um are african americans for example more likely to end up with cardiovascular heart disease
0:01:53 okay less likely with diabetes whereas why are indians you know more and so that you then begin to ask the
0:02:01 question and there we have genetics what about in terms of um this obese gene i read in chapter two of
0:02:08 your book that there is a gene for obesity there are more than a thousand genes for body weight the obese
0:02:14 gene in chapter two which i talk about is this leptin gene is this gene which lets your brain know how much
0:02:18 fat you have so that’s the exact gene leptin is the gene that i’m talking about in chapter two with the
0:02:23 obese it’s called the obese gene because the mouse was called obese there was a lack of imagination
0:02:29 um because big big because the mouse was a naturally occurring mouse um that that had a mutation in
0:02:34 the same gene scientists found out what that was and then found out that it was conserved in humans and
0:02:40 that’s where my boss steve rathley then came in and found that that gene was also mutated in in some
0:02:46 humans so that’s the obese gene it’s it’s the it’s the fat gene fat gene meaning gene from fat
0:02:53 that lets your brain know how much fat you have and is that possible to to be not just on or off but
0:02:59 slightly defective so some people can just get a little bit more hungry than others or is it a
0:03:07 binary thing where it can be on or off so leptin for whatever odd reason is pretty much binary so if
0:03:11 you have a little bit of it you’re fine if you have none of it you’re not however there is obviously
0:03:15 there is obviously a pathway leptin signals to the brain which signals to something else
0:03:22 and there is a another gene that i looked that i looked at called mc4r it’s part of the pathway
0:03:29 it’s part of the same fat sensing pathway that is a rare stat it’s like a thermostat and so for example
0:03:35 we have found thousands of different mutations in this in this gene and you can imagine that depending on
0:03:42 the severity of the dysfunction some are completely dead some are 70 functional you we can predict
0:03:50 how much someone will eat in a test buffet meal scenario if they have a 50 functioning gene versus
0:04:00 a zero functioning gene and we now know that 0.3 okay in this country at least so point so 200 000 people
0:04:06 in the uk a million people in the united states will carry mutations in this mc4r gene okay making them
0:04:13 more likely to end up with obesity so that at 18 years old at 18 years old if you carry a mutation
0:04:21 in this mc4r gene you are on average 18 kilos heavier 40 pounds heavier at 18 years old on average and
0:04:27 that’s 200 000 people in this country so it’s it’s it’s not super common right it’s still 99.7 percent of
0:04:32 the people’s body weight’s not determined by this but there are a lot of people’s body weights who are
0:04:37 dependent on this specific gene but it is a it is a tunable system so it’s a little bit or a lot means
0:04:41 that you are either slightly heavier or a lot heavier so i’m thinking of some you know families
0:04:49 often look quite similar yes in terms of body shape and size etc um i’m wondering how much like control
0:04:53 they have against fighting against those genes to to get us you know six pack abs not saying that’s a
0:04:59 sustainable healthy place to get to but is it significantly harder for certain people if their
0:05:05 family is maybe a little bit more larger to get to to fight against that and get to a different state
0:05:10 and then stay in that state yes undoubtedly so so there is certainly what we call it used to be called
0:05:16 a set point hypothesis meaning that each of us has a weight we actually protect it’s probably more nuanced
0:05:21 than that set range there’s a range that you can actually range that we find easy to keep to the
0:05:25 weight so in other words i’m not thinking about my body weight at the moment and this is the weight
0:05:30 that i am but i wish i was half a stone or a stone lighter but if i lost that half a stone i would
0:05:34 then have to think about food all the time to keep that half a stone off whereas i get half a stone
0:05:40 more and i don’t raise my weight anymore so that’s the idea where there’s a there is a a weight range is
0:05:46 easy to protect and each of us is different there are some people who are skinny there are some people
0:05:50 who just find it more difficult to say no to food than others that’s pretty much it so some people’s
0:05:56 thermostat and food is set a little higher than others and you defend that thermostat 25 degrees
0:06:02 versus 20 degrees and there’s really next to nothing you can do you can shift from 25 to 24 and a half
0:06:08 and maybe after christmas you’re 25 and 0.5 okay and so you shift around there but the likelihood of
0:06:13 you getting down to 20 and staying there you can get down to 20 okay if you do some stupid diet
0:06:20 but the moment you ping you ping back you ping right back up again so we do defend um there is
0:06:25 very very little choice in inverted commas in where we end up with the body weight over a lifetime
0:06:33 any given meal we have a choice you think right pizza or no pizza pizza or no pizza but over thousands
0:06:40 of feeding events there’s very little choice what then you reference age there do we get fatter with age
0:06:48 because generally i look at you know i’d say younger people typically have a slightly leaner physique
0:06:53 and then something seems to happen along the way is that just a false observation i have or is there
0:07:00 some science that supports the the gaining of weight as we age there’s science that a weight is inexorably
0:07:06 up okay even though we’ve stopped growing when we’re we’re 18 years old actually there’s some later science
0:07:10 i used to i used to if you would ask me the question five years ago i would have said that by the time we
0:07:16 hit 40 or 50 our metabolism starts to dip that’s part of the reason that’s not true as it turns out
0:07:22 our metabolism doesn’t start to dip till we’re 60 okay but what happens as we get older are a number of
0:07:27 different things first of all we tend to get richer we tend to get more money we tend to sit on our arse
0:07:33 more okay just in terms of the type of jobs we do okay and because of both of those things we tend to
0:07:39 exercise less because we’re busier and so we lose muscle mass those are all three things metabolically
0:07:44 the most active part of your body are the muscles so when you’re younger and you’re doing things and
0:07:49 you have more time to go to the gym first of all your metabolic rate is linked to the amount of muscle
0:07:53 you have and so as you get older you’re set on your arse you eat a bit more we don’t eat less we eat more
0:07:58 and we can buy richer food because we got more money and you begin to lose muscle mass so all of those
0:08:04 things put together means that you inexperably become larger then what happens at 60 years old
0:08:09 your metabolism then starts to drop as well and then you get even larger middle age spread etc
0:08:16 so on that point about the more muscles you have the higher your metabolism that means if i’m if i’ve got
0:08:20 big muscles then i’m burning my food faster yes fantastic news i’m gonna work out later
0:08:25 lift some weights um because i was really started started by that i i after i read it in your book
0:08:32 about us gaining more and more weight as we age i googled it and the health care research and quality
0:08:39 agency said that we naturally tend to gain weight as we age to the tune of one to two pounds per year
0:08:45 according to their review and that’s from the agency for health care research and quality
0:08:51 which i found quite startling but completely accurate so the numbers so what what the numbers
0:08:56 that we have is yeah i think that’s right actually so between 20 and 50 years old those 30 years
0:09:03 intervening the average person average will gain about 15 kilos in weight which is 32 point yes two
0:09:07 pounds a year one to two pounds a year 15 kilos in weight is gained over 30 years on average some gain
0:09:12 very little others gain a hell of a lot more we look at ourselves in a mirror i look at myself in a mirror
0:09:17 um but it’s true i don’t want to be that guy mate i don’t know how much choice you have
0:09:23 what can i do to to to try and stay because for me it’s not really about the weight thing or how
0:09:30 you look it’s more about like i i am i don’t know how to say this but there was this big set of stairs
0:09:35 the other day really really long set of stairs leading down to this lake i was in indonesia a couple
0:09:42 of months ago um and i i remember thinking about those stairs and thinking god if i wasn’t you know
0:09:48 athletic and strong and didn’t have good knees and things like that there’s no way i’d be able to get
0:09:55 down this long winding hand carved set of indonesian stairs so that i could go on this boat trip that i
0:09:59 was going to go on and i just thought about how it was a weird thing i know this is kind of a strange
0:10:03 story to tell but it crossed my mind i got to the bottom of the stairs and i turned to the person i was
0:10:06 with and was literally like you know that’s why i’ve got to stay in shape for as long as i can
0:10:10 because i want to do these boat trips and i want to go on this little rafting thing but i won’t even be
0:10:15 able to access it unless i can go down up and down those stairs like 200 meters of stairs down this cliff
0:10:21 um so that’s what i care about i care about being active and strong and fit for as long as i possibly
0:10:28 can and i from what you said about gravity and weight um being overweight is going to inhibit my chances
0:10:32 of being able to do those stairs so so that i think there are two elements there first of all there
0:10:38 is doing the things that we want to do okay like that because you’re exactly right these are the
0:10:42 things which i can still do that i can still walk up a mountain or down a mountain because i’m still
0:10:48 fit enough to do that and i want to stay as fit as long as i can to do that and weight will inhibit that
0:10:53 undoubtedly but then there’s a second element to actually consider now that’s healthy look none of
0:11:00 us are going to live longer we hopefully and anyway if we left lived longer but was unhealthy would you want
0:11:06 to live longer so you want to live longer but healthier for longer okay and undoubtedly the
0:11:12 thing that is closest related to health when you age is not your total weight there’s a role to play
0:11:19 there the amount of muscle you have it is your muscle mass as you age independent of how much fat you have
0:11:26 okay that will determine how healthy you are as you age so as so now the moment now i’m talking about
0:11:31 going into the 60s into the 70s rather than when one is able to go down a 200 meter set of steps okay
0:11:38 so now as you get older the most crucial bit of information is to maintain resistance training
0:11:43 not lifting and that’s not what i’m talking about sitting on a wall getting up and down a chair because
0:11:50 that the amount of muscle mass you have really really really marks the level of health that you’re going to
0:11:56 get and then the science is startling it is so so so related uh independent of independent of weight
0:12:01 you know from from from there so muscle mass is the most important for healthy aging the moment you get
0:12:08 60 70 plus interesting okay so i’ll keep i’ll keep doing resistance training correct always keep
0:12:12 resistance training and lifting weights as long as i can lifting weights as long as you can at some
0:12:17 point you won’t be able to live weights just because don’t write me off don’t write me off
0:12:23 the hubris of youth yeah that’s the naivety of youth yeah you just assume you’ll always be able
0:12:27 to do what you can do now i i yeah it’s something i think a lot about and i think a lot of people will
0:12:33 watch this podcast because probably especially this time of year we’re in january they’ll probably be
0:12:38 trying to find ways that they can cut fat they want to be a bit skinnier you said you think you said
0:12:42 half the stone you want to lose i’m in the same place i think most people want to lose a half a
0:12:48 stone or something what is the way that you would suggest to do that the simple way you know not the
0:12:54 like like in complicated go buy this guy’s course and do three million sit-ups whatever the simple
0:13:01 advice you would give someone that’s hoping to create sort of sustainable weight loss okay so this
0:13:08 this something’s like the last page of of the why calories don’t count book but it is a set of
0:13:13 numbers and i know i said not to count calories but it’s a set of numbers that is that you can apply
0:13:19 to whatever diet you like so the first is the amount of protein you eat and you need to try and focus on
0:13:26 trying to keep to about 16 of the energy in your day okay from protein 16 and there’s a sweet spot
0:13:31 so if you eat too much and you’re not lifting you’re stressing your kidneys because your kidneys
0:13:37 have to get rid of the nitrogen from the protein okay so 16 is a sweet spot and it doesn’t mean
0:13:45 steaks only it can mean beans tofu any kind of protein from anywhere 16 second is fiber we need to
0:13:51 eat as much fiber as physically possible okay 30 grams we want to aim for although we’re looking at the
0:13:55 moment on average in this country we’re probably only eating 15 grams we need to double the amount
0:14:02 of fiber we actually eat third we need to limit the amount of added sugars into our diet added sugars
0:14:11 meaning sugars not tied up in fiber powdered stuff uh um maple syrup algarve nectar all those are added
0:14:17 sugars you put in keep it to five percent or less of the of the energy content in your day and those are
0:14:23 the three numbers that that i want you to think about so 16 of protein 30 grams of fiber 5 or less
0:14:32 of added sugars apply that to whatever you want what keto um whatever you want to do apply that and i think
0:14:41 that will be a sustainable healthy way to eat now there’s been a lot said about exercise as a weight loss
0:14:45 strategy a lot of people think do you know what i will just run every day and i’ll lose weight in your
0:14:51 books you said um the problem with using exercise as a weight loss strategy is that doing exercise makes
0:14:59 you feel hungry you can’t outrun a bad diet is exercise a good strategy for weight loss it is a
0:15:04 good strategy for weight loss if you’re an olympic athlete or a tour de france rider what if you are
0:15:11 a muggle like me a muggle like you a muggle like me then exercise okay exercise you can never replace
0:15:18 the goodness and wonderfulness and health benefits of exercise is exercise a good weight loss strategy
0:15:25 for a muggle like steve no it’s a good weight maintenance tool though so in other words once
0:15:30 you’ve lost the weight which means you need to eat less somehow exercise helps you keep the weight off
0:15:35 so once you’ve actually lost the weight that you that you’re aiming for whatever whatever that might be
0:15:40 then do the exercise and that will help keep the weight off but it’s not going to help me get the
0:15:47 weight off in the first place no that seems to sit in contradiction to what my old personal trainer
0:15:53 only because we don’t do it enough so now if you had okay let’s put it this way let’s put it this way
0:15:58 the way that it would work is if you had a personal trainer and a chef then what would happen is your
0:16:04 personal trainer will make you work hard and your chef will make your meal okay therefore what happens
0:16:10 is it’s controlled on both sides that is not typically what happens in in the real world i go on my run my
0:16:14 cycle what have you i come back i’m ravenously hungry i open the fridge and i stuff my mouth full of carbs
0:16:21 that is that that that is my story right and so it is very difficult to control your diet after you’ve
0:16:26 done long hard exercise bouts because you get ravenously hungry so professional sports teams
0:16:32 a they exercise ridiculous they train three times a day so that there’s that but they still have chefs
0:16:37 and dietitians and they eat what they what what they you know the canteen puts up for them which is healthy
0:16:43 food so someone is looking after their diet for them but they are burning so much they don’t have to worry
0:16:49 too much about how much they eat whereas we we do it’s i know it’s counterintuitive in some sense but
0:16:54 it’s purely because we don’t exercise enough and is that also because ultimately because the brain is
0:17:00 controlling our feeding behavior so the brain is knows that we’ve just been for a run so it’s it’s
0:17:09 adding to our appetite yes uh a surplus to make us return to that that weight it’s trying to protect
0:17:15 there’s that and there’s also our own internal psychology on it because now you feel a bit smug you
0:17:20 oh i went for my run on sunday morning you know and then so i can eat what i want and there’s that
0:17:24 element too so suddenly when you normally would say oh i better not eat so much today i haven’t
0:17:29 there are some internal controls that we sometimes have those internal controls are weakened once we’ve
0:17:33 actually had our exercise because we feel that we have earned the food that’s in front of us
0:17:35 you