AI transcript
0:00:07 Hey, I’m Jon Calan Hill, host of a brand new show from Vox called Explain It To Me.
0:00:10 This week, the ethical murkiness of zoos.
0:00:16 Do we as humans feel like we deserve to just be able to walk around and see these animals?
0:00:17 Maybe we don’t deserve that.
0:00:21 Maybe there’s just some animals we don’t get to see.
0:00:23 To zoo or not to zoo?
0:00:25 That’s this week on Explain It To Me.
0:00:32 Listen wherever you get your podcasts.
0:00:35 Support for PropG comes from NerdWallet.
0:00:38 Starting your credit card search with NerdWallet, smart.
0:00:44 Using their tools to finally find the card that works for you even smarter, you can filter for the features you care about.
0:00:49 Access the latest deals and add your top cards to a comparison table to make smarter decisions.
0:00:54 And it’s all powered by the nerd’s expert reviews of over 400 credit cards.
0:01:01 Head over to nerdwallet.com/learnmore to find smarter credit card savings accounts, mortgage rates, and more.
0:01:03 NerdWallet, finance smarter.
0:01:12 NerdWallet Compare Incorporated, NMLS 1617539.
0:01:16 Will the VP debate move the needle in what’s shaping up to be a neck-and-neck election?
0:01:21 You never know in advance what will be the thing that matters and the thing that doesn’t matter.
0:01:31 But Donald Trump will be almost 80, and J.D. Vance will be one cheeseburger away from the presidency should they win.
0:01:40 I’m Preet Bharara, and this week, The Atlantic magazine’s David Frum joins me on my podcast Stay Tuned With Preet to break down what happened at the debate.
0:01:42 The episode is out now.
0:01:50 Search and follow Stay Tuned With Preet wherever you get your podcasts.
0:01:54 I’m Scott Galloway, and this is No Mercy, No Malice.
0:01:57 Our information ecosystem has changed.
0:02:01 We’re changing too, but not for the better.
0:02:10 Online, offline, as read by George Hahn.
0:02:13 I celebrated my 50th birthday last weekend.
0:02:14 Just go with it.
0:02:20 It’s a milestone and an opportunity to reflect, which I do too much.
0:02:29 In the past 50 years, there may have been more technological innovation and disruption than in the previous 500.
0:02:33 The year my parents divorced, I spent the summer with my dad in Chicago.
0:02:42 On weekends, we’d journey to his downtown office where I could use the “whats” line, ask a boomer, to call my mom.
0:02:45 Long-distance calls were $4 a minute.
0:02:49 Well worth the hour-long train ride.
0:02:57 If the cycle time of innovation keeps contracting, we may register even greater changes in the next 15 years.
0:03:05 The net net of a jump to light speed in innovation is a mix of unprecedented prosperity and danger,
0:03:12 as god-like technology will collide with paleolithic instincts and medieval institutions.
0:03:19 66 million years ago, an asteroid the size of Everest slammed into Earth.
0:03:25 The impact unleashed an apocalyptic chain of events that changed the global ecosystem,
0:03:32 extinguishing dinosaurs, and setting the stage for homo habilis, i.e. us.
0:03:40 When a natural ecosystem changes, predators and prey adapt, or they die.
0:03:44 30 years ago, the internet slammed into our information ecosystem.
0:03:48 The internet is bigger and more devastating than the Chicksalub impactor.
0:03:52 Note, awesome name for a boy band.
0:03:55 Chicksalub didn’t kill off the dinosaurs immediately.
0:04:01 It took about 30,000 years before the last triceratops drew her final breath.
0:04:07 Newspaper revenue peaked in 2005 and has since declined 80%.
0:04:12 Traditional TV’s revenue has been halved since streaming began.
0:04:18 To call legacy media “dinosaur’s” is not fair to dinosaurs.
0:04:25 The new Apex predators, tech platforms, have evolved from amoebas to tyrannosaurus rexes
0:04:28 since the debut season of law and order.
0:04:36 How we ingest and digest the information that shapes our views and actions is changing, as are we.
0:04:43 I’m a better person offline, friendlier, more likely to find common ground.
0:04:50 Online, I’m defensive and angry as I’m constantly having to battle bots, anonymous trolls, and
0:04:53 people arguing in bad faith.
0:04:58 And most people are a lesser version of themselves online.
0:05:01 Why the Jekyll and Hyde Act?
0:05:06 The frictionless experiences created by the digital revolution make it easy to post harmful
0:05:09 content without thinking first.
0:05:13 Social media companies have experimented with moderation tools that warn users before
0:05:18 they post something damaging, but the idea hasn’t caught on.
0:05:23 We dislike the coarseness of online culture, but we hate friction.
0:05:29 And just as there are cues to be civil offline, like traffic signs, handicapped parking, the
0:05:36 corporate titans of today have discovered that while sex sells, rage addicts.
0:05:43 Their algorithms elevate content that’s incendiary and novel, i.e. bullshit.
0:05:47 If only there was a way to exonerate them from the externalities of the emissions their
0:05:53 users are belching into society, which are, in my view, more damaging than carbon.
0:06:00 But wait, there is Section 230.
0:06:06 Halloween is my favorite holiday, something about getting to wear a wig and a green light
0:06:09 for women to dress like sluts works for me.
0:06:14 I tend to get drunk and behave more outrageously than society would accept, say, during midday
0:06:17 on a Wednesday in February.
0:06:23 The guys who dumped British tea in Boston Harbor dressed up like Native Americans as
0:06:27 a misdirect to dodge accountability.
0:06:32 The men behind the Declaration of Independence signed their names as they had the courage
0:06:34 of their convictions.
0:06:39 Anonymity’s value has been exaggerated for the benefit of the tech incumbents who don’t
0:06:44 want to be held responsible for the damage their firm’s actions cause.
0:06:50 We are more likely to post inflammatory or defamatory content when we know there are
0:06:52 no consequences.
0:06:58 As a famous 1993 cartoon in The New Yorker put it, “On the internet, nobody knows you’re
0:07:00 a dog.”
0:07:09 Today the caption would read, “On the internet, nobody knows you’re an asshole.”
0:07:11 Imagine I own a hotel.
0:07:19 The Scott boasts a California king in every room, James Percy pajamas, a decent pool scene,
0:07:24 a dog park and a taco truck that never closes.
0:07:30 It’s also a nexus for terrorism, child exploitation and illegal arms sales.
0:07:35 In the analog extremely offline world, the Scott would be shut down and Scott Galloway
0:07:38 imprisoned.
0:07:44 But our idolatry of the dollar and innovators has shapeshifted into an iron dome intercepting
0:07:49 all incoming accountability hurling toward emerging platforms.
0:07:54 If it’s digital, then it’s speech and immune.
0:08:01 The least greatest generation, tech bros, have convinced the media and lawmakers that
0:08:09 their crimes are speech and not subject to the same standards as similar activity in
0:08:12 the offline world.
0:08:17 Telegram is a communications platform with public channels, private chats that can be
0:08:21 encrypted and self-deleting messages.
0:08:23 One billion people use it.
0:08:28 The Russian military uses it on the battlefield in Ukraine.
0:08:33 Activists against the governments in authoritarian countries use it.
0:08:38 At one point, Telegram was the app of choice for ISIS.
0:08:43 Recently it’s become the go-to platform for domestic terrorists.
0:08:46 It’s also a must-have for criminal networks.
0:08:51 Telegram, which advertises itself as a free speech platform that doesn’t moderate content,
0:08:56 was instrumental for the right-wing groups that organized race riots in the UK this
0:08:59 summer.
0:09:05 Last month, French authorities arrested Telegram CEO Pavel Durov.
0:09:10 The charges included allegations that the platform is used to distribute child sexual
0:09:15 abuse material and facilitate drug trafficking, and that it refused to share information with
0:09:19 investigators as required by law.
0:09:26 These are serious allegations, and if proven, Telegram and its CEO will be punished.
0:09:28 That shouldn’t be controversial.
0:09:35 But as soon as news of Durov’s arrest broke, he was crowned a free speech martyr by Silicon
0:09:38 Valley’s usual suspects.
0:09:43 This isn’t about speech, but our decision to elevate billionaires and the platforms
0:09:48 that made them billionaires to deities.
0:09:55 Frequently, the internet’s most intractable problems hit a free speech dead-end.
0:10:00 Last week, 42 state attorneys general called on Congress to mandate warning labels for
0:10:07 social media, citing a Surgeon General report detailing the link between social media and
0:10:10 anxiety and depression in teens.
0:10:17 Reporters, activists, and parents, including me, have highlighted this issue for years.
0:10:22 But it’s unlikely we’ll see a warning label, as social media companies will deploy lobbyists,
0:10:29 lawyers, and publicists to innovation wash, eyewash, their criminality.
0:10:35 Tying it to economic growth, free speech, youth, and a general sense that to constrain
0:10:40 them would be wrong, or worse, European.
0:10:46 When thousands of Americans were dying every day during the pandemic, public health officials
0:10:51 asked social media platforms to remove misinformation about COVID-19.
0:10:56 This was immediately framed as a conspiracy to control people.
0:11:00 Balancing public health and civil liberties is never easy.
0:11:03 In some cases, public health officials overreached.
0:11:09 In others, social media platforms voluntarily complied and likely saved lives.
0:11:14 Ultimately, the Supreme Court ruled in the government’s favor, though the decision was
0:11:17 made on procedural grounds.
0:11:24 But what should have been a free society’s shining moment devolved into a melee of conspiracy
0:11:32 theories, publicity stunts, and disingenuous accusations of censorship?
0:11:38 Earlier this year, sexually explicit AI-generated images of Taylor Swift went viral.
0:11:46 One image posted on X was shared 24,000 times and received 45 million views.
0:11:50 Deep fakes make the problem of revenge porn worse.
0:11:56 Revenge porn achieved scale long before Taylor Swift became a victim.
0:12:01 In the U.S., 49 states have laws against such behavior.
0:12:06 But at the federal level, where it counts, efforts to criminalize revenge porn, or at
0:12:13 least empower victims to seek civil remedies, have consistently stalled because of First
0:12:16 Amendment concerns.
0:12:22 What would happen if pornographic AI-generated images of Taylor Swift were shown on televisions,
0:12:30 in movie theaters, or in any other lame medium run by boomers?
0:12:36 Censorship is a problem in a free society, but it’s nowhere near our biggest problem,
0:12:40 and it’s become a misdirect from the greater perils we face.
0:12:46 We are raising the most obese, addicted, anxious generation in our nation’s history.
0:12:47 But censorship?
0:12:49 That’s the real threat?
0:12:52 Give me a fucking break.
0:12:58 Cries of censorship are a tell for someone who won’t shut up and is everywhere.
0:13:05 Our society has adopted a generally accepted myth that being offended or crying censorship
0:13:07 means you are right.
0:13:13 No, it just means you are offended and have become allergic to people pushing back on
0:13:16 your bullshit.
0:13:23 A much bigger threat is the belief that the internet and its zealots is all freedom, zero
0:13:25 responsibility.
0:13:31 Perhaps that sentiment is an echo of John Perry Barlow’s 1996 essay, A Declaration
0:13:35 of the Independence of Cyberspace.
0:13:42 Barlow, a techno-libertarian who co-founded the Electronic Frontier Foundation, wrote,
0:13:49 “Governments of the industrial world, you weary giants of flesh and steel, I come from
0:13:53 cyberspace, the new home of mind.
0:13:59 On behalf of the future, I ask you of the past to leave us alone.
0:14:01 You are not welcome among us.
0:14:06 You have no sovereignty where we gather.”
0:14:13 Barlow’s essay came in response to the passage of the Telecommunications Act of 1996 or what’s
0:14:17 known today as Section 230.
0:14:24 Immunizing online platforms from third-party speech, excused media platforms from the scrutiny,
0:14:30 accountability, and citizenship we demand from other media companies.
0:14:35 But it’s a false premise to suggest freedom is at odds with responsibility.
0:14:38 It’s not.
0:14:43 The freedoms we enjoy are a function of the responsibility embraced by people who see
0:14:46 themselves as part of something bigger.
0:14:52 When Durov was arrested, there was a cacophony of catastrophizing from the tech set, who
0:14:57 don’t want to give up their laminated stay out of jail cards.
0:15:02 This will send a chill throughout the tech world, lamented billionaire tech figures.
0:15:10 Yes, winter is coming, and it’s a good thing.
0:15:12 Life is so rich.
0:15:22 [Music]
0:15:30 [BLANK_AUDIO]
0:00:10 This week, the ethical murkiness of zoos.
0:00:16 Do we as humans feel like we deserve to just be able to walk around and see these animals?
0:00:17 Maybe we don’t deserve that.
0:00:21 Maybe there’s just some animals we don’t get to see.
0:00:23 To zoo or not to zoo?
0:00:25 That’s this week on Explain It To Me.
0:00:32 Listen wherever you get your podcasts.
0:00:35 Support for PropG comes from NerdWallet.
0:00:38 Starting your credit card search with NerdWallet, smart.
0:00:44 Using their tools to finally find the card that works for you even smarter, you can filter for the features you care about.
0:00:49 Access the latest deals and add your top cards to a comparison table to make smarter decisions.
0:00:54 And it’s all powered by the nerd’s expert reviews of over 400 credit cards.
0:01:01 Head over to nerdwallet.com/learnmore to find smarter credit card savings accounts, mortgage rates, and more.
0:01:03 NerdWallet, finance smarter.
0:01:12 NerdWallet Compare Incorporated, NMLS 1617539.
0:01:16 Will the VP debate move the needle in what’s shaping up to be a neck-and-neck election?
0:01:21 You never know in advance what will be the thing that matters and the thing that doesn’t matter.
0:01:31 But Donald Trump will be almost 80, and J.D. Vance will be one cheeseburger away from the presidency should they win.
0:01:40 I’m Preet Bharara, and this week, The Atlantic magazine’s David Frum joins me on my podcast Stay Tuned With Preet to break down what happened at the debate.
0:01:42 The episode is out now.
0:01:50 Search and follow Stay Tuned With Preet wherever you get your podcasts.
0:01:54 I’m Scott Galloway, and this is No Mercy, No Malice.
0:01:57 Our information ecosystem has changed.
0:02:01 We’re changing too, but not for the better.
0:02:10 Online, offline, as read by George Hahn.
0:02:13 I celebrated my 50th birthday last weekend.
0:02:14 Just go with it.
0:02:20 It’s a milestone and an opportunity to reflect, which I do too much.
0:02:29 In the past 50 years, there may have been more technological innovation and disruption than in the previous 500.
0:02:33 The year my parents divorced, I spent the summer with my dad in Chicago.
0:02:42 On weekends, we’d journey to his downtown office where I could use the “whats” line, ask a boomer, to call my mom.
0:02:45 Long-distance calls were $4 a minute.
0:02:49 Well worth the hour-long train ride.
0:02:57 If the cycle time of innovation keeps contracting, we may register even greater changes in the next 15 years.
0:03:05 The net net of a jump to light speed in innovation is a mix of unprecedented prosperity and danger,
0:03:12 as god-like technology will collide with paleolithic instincts and medieval institutions.
0:03:19 66 million years ago, an asteroid the size of Everest slammed into Earth.
0:03:25 The impact unleashed an apocalyptic chain of events that changed the global ecosystem,
0:03:32 extinguishing dinosaurs, and setting the stage for homo habilis, i.e. us.
0:03:40 When a natural ecosystem changes, predators and prey adapt, or they die.
0:03:44 30 years ago, the internet slammed into our information ecosystem.
0:03:48 The internet is bigger and more devastating than the Chicksalub impactor.
0:03:52 Note, awesome name for a boy band.
0:03:55 Chicksalub didn’t kill off the dinosaurs immediately.
0:04:01 It took about 30,000 years before the last triceratops drew her final breath.
0:04:07 Newspaper revenue peaked in 2005 and has since declined 80%.
0:04:12 Traditional TV’s revenue has been halved since streaming began.
0:04:18 To call legacy media “dinosaur’s” is not fair to dinosaurs.
0:04:25 The new Apex predators, tech platforms, have evolved from amoebas to tyrannosaurus rexes
0:04:28 since the debut season of law and order.
0:04:36 How we ingest and digest the information that shapes our views and actions is changing, as are we.
0:04:43 I’m a better person offline, friendlier, more likely to find common ground.
0:04:50 Online, I’m defensive and angry as I’m constantly having to battle bots, anonymous trolls, and
0:04:53 people arguing in bad faith.
0:04:58 And most people are a lesser version of themselves online.
0:05:01 Why the Jekyll and Hyde Act?
0:05:06 The frictionless experiences created by the digital revolution make it easy to post harmful
0:05:09 content without thinking first.
0:05:13 Social media companies have experimented with moderation tools that warn users before
0:05:18 they post something damaging, but the idea hasn’t caught on.
0:05:23 We dislike the coarseness of online culture, but we hate friction.
0:05:29 And just as there are cues to be civil offline, like traffic signs, handicapped parking, the
0:05:36 corporate titans of today have discovered that while sex sells, rage addicts.
0:05:43 Their algorithms elevate content that’s incendiary and novel, i.e. bullshit.
0:05:47 If only there was a way to exonerate them from the externalities of the emissions their
0:05:53 users are belching into society, which are, in my view, more damaging than carbon.
0:06:00 But wait, there is Section 230.
0:06:06 Halloween is my favorite holiday, something about getting to wear a wig and a green light
0:06:09 for women to dress like sluts works for me.
0:06:14 I tend to get drunk and behave more outrageously than society would accept, say, during midday
0:06:17 on a Wednesday in February.
0:06:23 The guys who dumped British tea in Boston Harbor dressed up like Native Americans as
0:06:27 a misdirect to dodge accountability.
0:06:32 The men behind the Declaration of Independence signed their names as they had the courage
0:06:34 of their convictions.
0:06:39 Anonymity’s value has been exaggerated for the benefit of the tech incumbents who don’t
0:06:44 want to be held responsible for the damage their firm’s actions cause.
0:06:50 We are more likely to post inflammatory or defamatory content when we know there are
0:06:52 no consequences.
0:06:58 As a famous 1993 cartoon in The New Yorker put it, “On the internet, nobody knows you’re
0:07:00 a dog.”
0:07:09 Today the caption would read, “On the internet, nobody knows you’re an asshole.”
0:07:11 Imagine I own a hotel.
0:07:19 The Scott boasts a California king in every room, James Percy pajamas, a decent pool scene,
0:07:24 a dog park and a taco truck that never closes.
0:07:30 It’s also a nexus for terrorism, child exploitation and illegal arms sales.
0:07:35 In the analog extremely offline world, the Scott would be shut down and Scott Galloway
0:07:38 imprisoned.
0:07:44 But our idolatry of the dollar and innovators has shapeshifted into an iron dome intercepting
0:07:49 all incoming accountability hurling toward emerging platforms.
0:07:54 If it’s digital, then it’s speech and immune.
0:08:01 The least greatest generation, tech bros, have convinced the media and lawmakers that
0:08:09 their crimes are speech and not subject to the same standards as similar activity in
0:08:12 the offline world.
0:08:17 Telegram is a communications platform with public channels, private chats that can be
0:08:21 encrypted and self-deleting messages.
0:08:23 One billion people use it.
0:08:28 The Russian military uses it on the battlefield in Ukraine.
0:08:33 Activists against the governments in authoritarian countries use it.
0:08:38 At one point, Telegram was the app of choice for ISIS.
0:08:43 Recently it’s become the go-to platform for domestic terrorists.
0:08:46 It’s also a must-have for criminal networks.
0:08:51 Telegram, which advertises itself as a free speech platform that doesn’t moderate content,
0:08:56 was instrumental for the right-wing groups that organized race riots in the UK this
0:08:59 summer.
0:09:05 Last month, French authorities arrested Telegram CEO Pavel Durov.
0:09:10 The charges included allegations that the platform is used to distribute child sexual
0:09:15 abuse material and facilitate drug trafficking, and that it refused to share information with
0:09:19 investigators as required by law.
0:09:26 These are serious allegations, and if proven, Telegram and its CEO will be punished.
0:09:28 That shouldn’t be controversial.
0:09:35 But as soon as news of Durov’s arrest broke, he was crowned a free speech martyr by Silicon
0:09:38 Valley’s usual suspects.
0:09:43 This isn’t about speech, but our decision to elevate billionaires and the platforms
0:09:48 that made them billionaires to deities.
0:09:55 Frequently, the internet’s most intractable problems hit a free speech dead-end.
0:10:00 Last week, 42 state attorneys general called on Congress to mandate warning labels for
0:10:07 social media, citing a Surgeon General report detailing the link between social media and
0:10:10 anxiety and depression in teens.
0:10:17 Reporters, activists, and parents, including me, have highlighted this issue for years.
0:10:22 But it’s unlikely we’ll see a warning label, as social media companies will deploy lobbyists,
0:10:29 lawyers, and publicists to innovation wash, eyewash, their criminality.
0:10:35 Tying it to economic growth, free speech, youth, and a general sense that to constrain
0:10:40 them would be wrong, or worse, European.
0:10:46 When thousands of Americans were dying every day during the pandemic, public health officials
0:10:51 asked social media platforms to remove misinformation about COVID-19.
0:10:56 This was immediately framed as a conspiracy to control people.
0:11:00 Balancing public health and civil liberties is never easy.
0:11:03 In some cases, public health officials overreached.
0:11:09 In others, social media platforms voluntarily complied and likely saved lives.
0:11:14 Ultimately, the Supreme Court ruled in the government’s favor, though the decision was
0:11:17 made on procedural grounds.
0:11:24 But what should have been a free society’s shining moment devolved into a melee of conspiracy
0:11:32 theories, publicity stunts, and disingenuous accusations of censorship?
0:11:38 Earlier this year, sexually explicit AI-generated images of Taylor Swift went viral.
0:11:46 One image posted on X was shared 24,000 times and received 45 million views.
0:11:50 Deep fakes make the problem of revenge porn worse.
0:11:56 Revenge porn achieved scale long before Taylor Swift became a victim.
0:12:01 In the U.S., 49 states have laws against such behavior.
0:12:06 But at the federal level, where it counts, efforts to criminalize revenge porn, or at
0:12:13 least empower victims to seek civil remedies, have consistently stalled because of First
0:12:16 Amendment concerns.
0:12:22 What would happen if pornographic AI-generated images of Taylor Swift were shown on televisions,
0:12:30 in movie theaters, or in any other lame medium run by boomers?
0:12:36 Censorship is a problem in a free society, but it’s nowhere near our biggest problem,
0:12:40 and it’s become a misdirect from the greater perils we face.
0:12:46 We are raising the most obese, addicted, anxious generation in our nation’s history.
0:12:47 But censorship?
0:12:49 That’s the real threat?
0:12:52 Give me a fucking break.
0:12:58 Cries of censorship are a tell for someone who won’t shut up and is everywhere.
0:13:05 Our society has adopted a generally accepted myth that being offended or crying censorship
0:13:07 means you are right.
0:13:13 No, it just means you are offended and have become allergic to people pushing back on
0:13:16 your bullshit.
0:13:23 A much bigger threat is the belief that the internet and its zealots is all freedom, zero
0:13:25 responsibility.
0:13:31 Perhaps that sentiment is an echo of John Perry Barlow’s 1996 essay, A Declaration
0:13:35 of the Independence of Cyberspace.
0:13:42 Barlow, a techno-libertarian who co-founded the Electronic Frontier Foundation, wrote,
0:13:49 “Governments of the industrial world, you weary giants of flesh and steel, I come from
0:13:53 cyberspace, the new home of mind.
0:13:59 On behalf of the future, I ask you of the past to leave us alone.
0:14:01 You are not welcome among us.
0:14:06 You have no sovereignty where we gather.”
0:14:13 Barlow’s essay came in response to the passage of the Telecommunications Act of 1996 or what’s
0:14:17 known today as Section 230.
0:14:24 Immunizing online platforms from third-party speech, excused media platforms from the scrutiny,
0:14:30 accountability, and citizenship we demand from other media companies.
0:14:35 But it’s a false premise to suggest freedom is at odds with responsibility.
0:14:38 It’s not.
0:14:43 The freedoms we enjoy are a function of the responsibility embraced by people who see
0:14:46 themselves as part of something bigger.
0:14:52 When Durov was arrested, there was a cacophony of catastrophizing from the tech set, who
0:14:57 don’t want to give up their laminated stay out of jail cards.
0:15:02 This will send a chill throughout the tech world, lamented billionaire tech figures.
0:15:10 Yes, winter is coming, and it’s a good thing.
0:15:12 Life is so rich.
0:15:22 [Music]
0:15:30 [BLANK_AUDIO]
As read by George Hahn.
Online / Offline
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices