OpenAI’s Video Capabilities EXPOSED (Sora Leak)

0:00:01 I don’t know if you’ve heard about this one yet,
0:00:03 but Sora got leaked.
0:00:07 This actually probably benefited OpenAI more than anything,
0:00:09 which I find really, really fascinating.
0:00:11 – Yeah, it’s interesting to see like OpenAI
0:00:13 really go about product development differently.
0:00:15 – Yeah, it looked the most realistic and consistent to me
0:00:17 out of anything I’ve seen.
0:00:19 – And so if they were better and from the turbo model,
0:00:20 that’s quite impressive.
0:00:23 (upbeat music)
0:00:25 – Hey, welcome to the Next Wave podcast.
0:00:27 I’m Matt Wolf, I’m here with Nathan Lanz,
0:00:31 and there has been a lot of craziness in the AI world
0:00:34 over the last few weeks, a lot of big things happening.
0:00:36 And in this episode,
0:00:37 we’re gonna just break it all down for you,
0:00:39 share our thoughts and opinions,
0:00:41 and let’s just go ahead and dive right into it.
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0:01:31 – We’re going to set the stage
0:01:33 and tell you a little bit about what’s been going on
0:01:36 in the world of AI over the last couple of weeks.
0:01:38 Last year around November,
0:01:40 AI news just sort of died off, right?
0:01:41 When you get around the holidays,
0:01:43 you don’t really get a ton of news
0:01:45 ’cause even all the AI companies
0:01:47 sort of take the time off as well.
0:01:50 The biggest news that came out of November of 2023
0:01:53 was Sam Altman getting booted from open AI
0:01:55 and then a few days later coming back to open AI.
0:01:56 But other than that,
0:01:58 there was really nothing going on in November
0:01:59 around the world of AI.
0:02:02 That doesn’t feel like the case this year in November.
0:02:04 It seems like there’s really been
0:02:06 not much of a slowdown at all.
0:02:07 Like there’s a lot to talk about.
0:02:10 We wanted to start with a very interesting thing
0:02:12 that happened with open AI and Sora
0:02:15 because Sora got leaked.
0:02:16 And I use leaked in air quotes
0:02:18 ’cause I don’t really feel like it got leaked.
0:02:21 Like somebody made a Python script essentially
0:02:23 that linked to Sora’s API.
0:02:25 And a bunch of people were able to basically
0:02:27 generate videos really quickly
0:02:31 while it was online for like the two hours that it was online.
0:02:34 So basically a group of like artists
0:02:36 that got early access to Sora,
0:02:39 at least according to this like write up that they did here,
0:02:41 they got early access to Sora,
0:02:43 but they were frustrated by the fact
0:02:45 that open AI was telling them
0:02:47 what videos they could share with the world,
0:02:49 what videos they couldn’t share with the world.
0:02:53 And they felt like open AI was taking advantage of them.
0:02:56 They basically said that you gave us access to this stuff,
0:02:57 you let us play with it.
0:02:59 But if we want to publish a video,
0:03:01 it’s only videos that open AI essentially cherry picks
0:03:03 and lets us put out.
0:03:04 We’re here testing it for you.
0:03:06 We’re red teaming it for you.
0:03:08 We’re doing all this work for you for free.
0:03:12 And all we’re getting in return is access to Sora,
0:03:14 which we can’t share anything we make
0:03:15 without your permission first.
0:03:18 Therefore, that’s why we’re leaking it.
0:03:20 But again, the leak was really just like,
0:03:23 they went on hugging face, they put up a Python file,
0:03:26 the Python file had an API endpoint that pointed to Sora,
0:03:29 which means people were able to go on hugging face
0:03:31 for like a two or three hour window,
0:03:34 generate videos with Sora and, you know,
0:03:36 kind of share them around.
0:03:37 But then pretty quickly,
0:03:39 because they were just sharing an API endpoint,
0:03:42 open AI was able to go and shut down that endpoint
0:03:43 and nobody was able to generate videos anymore.
0:03:47 So the loophole was closed pretty, pretty quickly.
0:03:52 But in my opinion, this had like the reverse effect
0:03:55 of what these people that leaked it were going for, right?
0:03:58 Because they leaked it.
0:03:59 It didn’t stay online for very long.
0:04:02 So not many people got access to play with Sora,
0:04:05 but everybody’s talking about Sora again, right?
0:04:07 So it’s like, this actually probably
0:04:09 benefited open AI more than anything.
0:04:11 – Actually, I saw a lot more negative sentiment
0:04:13 towards the leaker than I would expect it.
0:04:15 I kind of expected to be kind of like both sides,
0:04:17 kind of stuff, at least on X.
0:04:18 I didn’t see that.
0:04:19 It was all like pretty much one-sided.
0:04:20 Like this is kind of petty.
0:04:23 Like they give you access to this really cool tool,
0:04:25 which you could have personally and professionally benefited
0:04:27 from by having early access.
0:04:30 And you decided to do what?
0:04:32 Like do it in the middle finger
0:04:35 and like illegally leak the videos.
0:04:36 – Yeah, and they were all under NDA too.
0:04:37 So they all broke.
0:04:40 So whoever leaked this broke NDA to do it.
0:04:43 And then basically open AI shut down
0:04:45 the Sora like creator program.
0:04:48 So all of the creators that had access to Sora
0:04:51 that were able to use it behind the scenes all lost access.
0:04:54 No, but it’s like, all right, since somebody leaked it,
0:04:56 we don’t know the exact source of the leak.
0:04:57 We’re closing it for everybody.
0:04:59 Nobody gets to use Sora anymore, right?
0:05:02 So it’s like all of the creators
0:05:03 that got access behind the scenes,
0:05:05 most of them were frustrated that this happened
0:05:08 ’cause they lost access to Sora for themselves.
0:05:10 And yeah, it does feel kind of petty.
0:05:13 I mean, you got access to this tool.
0:05:16 I think more of what the negative sentiment around it
0:05:19 was that open AI was trying to super strongly control
0:05:21 the narrative of like what gets shared.
0:05:23 So like all the videos you’re seeing
0:05:25 are only the cherry-picked videos.
0:05:28 And this leak kind of showed that
0:05:29 Sora has a lot of the same flaws
0:05:32 that some of the other video generators have, right?
0:05:34 But at the end of the day,
0:05:35 we’re on a podcast talking about Sora
0:05:37 and we hadn’t talked about Sora in months
0:05:38 ’cause it’s been irrelevant.
0:05:41 Well, now all of a sudden Sora is relevant again, so.
0:05:42 – Oh yeah, that was a conspiracy theory, right?
0:05:43 It’s like they did it on purpose,
0:05:46 but I’m like, I just don’t really believe that.
0:05:48 I don’t see why they would do that,
0:05:49 but maybe you believe that, I don’t know.
0:05:52 – No, I do not believe that this was open AI,
0:05:56 like leaking Sora to get people talking about it again.
0:05:57 That wouldn’t really make any sense.
0:05:59 I also think, you know,
0:06:01 open AI probably lost a little bit of money.
0:06:02 I mean, in the grand scheme of things,
0:06:03 probably not too much money,
0:06:05 but like, you know, making an open,
0:06:08 like putting this API endpoint on the web
0:06:09 where anybody could use it for hugging face,
0:06:12 I don’t know what it cost to generate one of these videos,
0:06:14 but people were able to do a whole bunch of them
0:06:16 for free in this small window that it was open, right?
0:06:20 So it’s like, it definitely had a slight negative impact.
0:06:23 – Yeah, one thing worth noting is I think someone showed
0:06:25 from the API calls that it was actually a model,
0:06:28 a turbo model, which likely means
0:06:32 that it was a slightly lower quality, faster model.
0:06:34 So I would say that if that’s the case,
0:06:37 all the videos that I saw, the examples,
0:06:40 they were not dramatically better than the models out there
0:06:41 that I’ve seen, like from Runway and others,
0:06:43 but they were better.
0:06:44 And so if they were better and the turbo
0:06:47 from the turbo model, that’s quite impressive.
0:06:50 – I mean, I think when it comes to people,
0:06:52 I think it is probably the best model
0:06:54 for generating people like walking.
0:06:56 It looked the most realistic and consistent to me
0:06:57 out of anything I’ve seen, you know,
0:06:59 that already exists out there.
0:07:01 So, and I agree that the turbo model,
0:07:03 supposedly it’s a lot faster to generate.
0:07:06 It can only generate up to like one minute videos total.
0:07:08 Maybe it was only 10 seconds, I don’t know.
0:07:10 But it had like a shorter generation time
0:07:13 than like the main Sora model.
0:07:14 But yeah, at the end of the day,
0:07:18 I don’t think it was actually smart by the leaker.
0:07:21 It pissed off more people than like,
0:07:23 than people actually liked it.
0:07:25 I think the only people that are really happy about it
0:07:28 were like the, you know, the AI art community
0:07:31 that is super anti-AI, right?
0:07:32 There’s been a few new announcements
0:07:34 that came out of Anthropic this week.
0:07:39 They introduced their new model context protocol,
0:07:42 says today we’re open sourcing the model context protocol,
0:07:44 a new standard for connecting AI assistance
0:07:46 to the systems where data lives,
0:07:48 including content repositories,
0:07:50 business tools and development environments.
0:07:52 It aims to help frontier models produce
0:07:55 better, more relevant responses.
0:07:58 So kind of what I’m taking away from this
0:08:02 is that it’s sort of like a enterprise feature, I guess,
0:08:04 or like a feature to use like internally
0:08:06 in your company to sort of connect it
0:08:09 to your data sources so that Claude has that context
0:08:12 of your data sources connected to it.
0:08:14 Is that kind of what you’re taking away from this as well?
0:08:16 – Yeah, well, I mean, I haven’t had time
0:08:17 to like really deep dive into it yet,
0:08:21 but like from reading on Reddit and like X on places,
0:08:23 the big takeaway seems to be that,
0:08:24 yeah, you could kind of do this stuff before,
0:08:26 but you need to create a lot of custom software
0:08:29 to connect the LLM to your private databases
0:08:30 and information.
0:08:32 And it sounds like now it’s dramatically easier
0:08:34 ’cause it kind of just takes care of that for you.
0:08:35 – Yeah, I mean, honestly,
0:08:36 this is a little out of my wheelhouse.
0:08:39 It’s not something that like I personally use
0:08:42 or know a whole lot about, you know,
0:08:44 I tend to play more on the creativity side
0:08:47 and the like large language model side of like,
0:08:50 you know, getting it to generate stuff that’s useful for me.
0:08:53 I don’t really have any extra like data stores
0:08:54 I’m trying to connect to right now.
0:08:57 So it’s not something I’ve personally tested.
0:09:00 There is another announcement that came out of Anthropic,
0:09:01 which I have tried.
0:09:04 So I can talk a little bit more intelligently about that.
0:09:06 They just rolled out a new feature
0:09:09 where you can create your own personal style.
0:09:12 And so what this is, is if you go into Claude,
0:09:15 there’s a dropdown that says choose style.
0:09:17 And under the choose style,
0:09:19 you have the ability to create a custom style.
0:09:21 And the way you create a custom style
0:09:24 is by uploading a whole bunch of texts that you’ve written.
0:09:27 So if you have written articles or written a book
0:09:30 or have blog posts or even if you take transcripts
0:09:32 from your videos or something like that,
0:09:34 you can load all of this text in there
0:09:37 and it learns your speaking style,
0:09:39 your typing style, whatever you wanna call it.
0:09:41 It basically learns on that text
0:09:43 to try to duplicate your style.
0:09:46 So now when you go to Claude and you give it a prompt,
0:09:49 you can actually select make it sound like me essentially
0:09:51 and the response it’ll give you
0:09:55 will be sort of in the style of how you would write.
0:09:57 Or if you put transcripts,
0:10:00 it would be sort of in the style of how you’d talk, right?
0:10:02 I played with it, it’s really easy to use.
0:10:06 It’s pretty cool, but I didn’t really feel like it sounded
0:10:08 like me when I had it generate.
0:10:11 Like I gave it three of my YouTube video transcripts.
0:10:14 So I basically gave it 90 minutes worth of transcripts
0:10:17 to try to learn how I talk and what it gave back to me
0:10:20 had a whole bunch of like emojis integrated in it.
0:10:23 And it said stuff like, what’s up guys?
0:10:25 I got something killer for you today
0:10:28 that you’re gonna think is really spicy.
0:10:29 And then it had like a rocket emoji.
0:10:31 And it was like, what?
0:10:34 Like this, like there was no emojis
0:10:35 in the transcripts that I uploaded.
0:10:39 Why are there emojis in the style that I got back?
0:10:40 But the cool thing about it
0:10:43 is you can actually sort of continue to fine tune it.
0:10:46 So when it gives you a style back,
0:10:48 you can go and click edit style.
0:10:49 And there’s a little chat window,
0:10:52 just like if you’re using a custom GPT
0:10:53 where you could give it feedback.
0:10:55 So I gave it the feedback like,
0:10:57 I never put emojis in my text.
0:11:01 And like it’s a little more casual than I actually speak.
0:11:04 I speak casually, but this is too casual.
0:11:06 And it actually sort of tweaks it
0:11:09 and tries to get it even closer and closer to your voice.
0:11:10 But right out of the box, the first time I did it,
0:11:13 it was not amazing,
0:11:14 but you can actually sort of continue
0:11:16 to fine tune it a little bit.
0:11:18 – Yeah, it’s interesting to see like anthropic
0:11:21 and open AI really go about product development differently.
0:11:25 Like recently, anthropics been releasing things faster,
0:11:26 but some of them are kind of half-baked,
0:11:29 like the computer use thing and whatnot, right?
0:11:30 Where it’s like, cool, you did it first,
0:11:32 but people already heard that open AI
0:11:35 was building something similar for a while.
0:11:36 And they haven’t released it.
0:11:39 So it’s interesting that they are releasing cool things
0:11:40 that don’t always perfectly work.
0:11:43 And it does seem that open AI is kind of taking the path
0:11:44 of like be more like Apple,
0:11:46 where you try to wait until things are very good.
0:11:48 Same thing when they’re doing a Sora.
0:11:49 Apparently you got a great AI video model,
0:11:50 but they’re waiting to release it
0:11:52 where they feel like it’s actually the right time
0:11:54 when it’s actually super useful for people.
0:11:56 – Yeah, it makes me wonder if they,
0:11:57 like if they’re just kind of taking
0:11:58 two different business approaches, right?
0:12:01 Like anthropic is like, let’s put it out before it’s ready,
0:12:03 but collect a ton of feedback.
0:12:04 Let’s find out what people like about it,
0:12:06 what people don’t like about it.
0:12:08 Like, I mean, that’s been a practice a lot of,
0:12:10 I mean, Microsoft is actually pretty known
0:12:11 for doing that, right?
0:12:14 Like the first version of the Xbox they came out with
0:12:16 like was not, didn’t work very well,
0:12:18 and they waited for feedback
0:12:21 and then like made better versions based on feedback.
0:12:23 So I mean, like the big tech companies
0:12:25 have been doing this kind of thing forever.
0:12:27 Like let’s put something out that we know is not ready yet,
0:12:29 but let’s see what people say about it.
0:12:33 – I ended up meeting Kevin Bacchus from Microsoft
0:12:35 because of the Xbox one thing.
0:12:38 Because I seen him emails about the red ring or whatever.
0:12:40 I got like, I got that like two times in a row.
0:12:42 I was living in Florida and when you buy the Xbox
0:12:45 every time you’d buy it, like it get hot one day.
0:12:47 And then the thing would just permanently die.
0:12:49 – Yeah, I agree too.
0:12:51 But like, I feel like it’s slightly different
0:12:52 with software versus hardware, right?
0:12:54 Like if you buy an Xbox one
0:12:55 and it’s like broken out of the box,
0:12:56 you’re pissed off, right?
0:13:00 Cause it’s not like, like, you probably have to replace it.
0:13:03 It’s, if it’s like red ring of death,
0:13:04 a firmware update is not going to fix that.
0:13:05 Cause you can’t boot it up
0:13:08 to get the firmware update installed, right?
0:13:13 A software thing like Anthropic can push out a new feature
0:13:16 and know that it’s not fully what they want it to be,
0:13:19 but then pretty quickly like push out new updates
0:13:22 to get it up to where people want it, right?
0:13:24 – Yeah, but both approaches make sense
0:13:25 for like their current states, right?
0:13:26 Like open AI is the leader.
0:13:28 They have more eyes on them.
0:13:29 If you release something bad,
0:13:31 people could in theory not come back
0:13:32 or just have a horrible experience
0:13:34 and it’s like, I’ve never gone try that again.
0:13:35 – Yeah.
0:13:37 – Whereas Anthropics in catch up mode
0:13:39 to anything they can do for attention is smart.
0:13:39 – I agree. Yeah.
0:13:41 I think that’s kind of the thing right now
0:13:45 is that I feel like the narrative among AI people, right?
0:13:46 The people that are sort of paying attention
0:13:48 and talking about AI all the time,
0:13:50 the sort of narrative is that like open AI
0:13:54 shares a lot of cool stuff, but never really ships, right?
0:13:56 And I think Anthropic might be seeing that going,
0:13:57 all right, let’s be the company that ships
0:13:59 if we really want to compete with open AI.
0:14:00 – The feature sounds awesome.
0:14:02 I mean, like the idea to personalize,
0:14:05 I want to try one thing that’s really been annoying me
0:14:08 with Claude is that, you know, I typed really fast
0:14:09 and I used to be way more accurate.
0:14:11 I feel like as I’ve gotten older,
0:14:13 I still type incredibly fast, but I do make more errors.
0:14:14 – Right.
0:14:15 – And I liked with Chatcha BT
0:14:17 that I could still type incredibly fast.
0:14:18 And if there’s typo, who cares?
0:14:21 Because it would always just, it would know what you meant.
0:14:22 And I love that.
0:14:24 It’s like, that’s like a magical thing for me.
0:14:27 ‘Cause like type super fast, make a mistake, who cares?
0:14:29 – And you feel like Claude doesn’t do that?
0:14:31 – Claude corrects me.
0:14:33 And I find it super annoying.
0:14:35 I’m like, I didn’t know why.
0:14:36 It’s like, I don’t want this thing called Claude,
0:14:38 like correcting me.
0:14:40 Like, oh, by the way, you typed, you know,
0:14:41 you spelled it this way or whatever.
0:14:42 It’s like, I don’t know, whatever.
0:14:44 But Google’s been doing that forever.
0:14:44 Right?
0:14:45 Like, did you mean?
0:14:46 – Yeah.
0:14:47 – And then like.
0:14:48 – Yeah.
0:14:49 But open-ag does not do that, right?
0:14:50 So I just, like,
0:14:51 Chatcha BT does not do that.
0:14:53 So I think that’s actually been a really annoying thing
0:14:54 for me with Claude.
0:14:56 Like literally, like, when that happens,
0:14:57 I’m like, screw this program.
0:14:58 I know what it is.
0:14:59 – That’s funny.
0:15:00 ‘Cause I’ve actually never noticed that.
0:15:01 I don’t know if I’ve ever seen it,
0:15:02 like correct me like that.
0:15:07 But like moving along, I know V zero has some updates.
0:15:10 In fact, the last episode we put out,
0:15:11 we actually played around with V zero
0:15:16 a little bit, but I don’t know much about the update.
0:15:17 But you mentioned before we hit record
0:15:19 that V zero has some new updates.
0:15:20 So.
0:15:22 – And this shows you how fast things are moving AI.
0:15:25 Like probably 30 minutes after we recorded our episode,
0:15:27 they released a new update to V zero
0:15:29 that everyone’s been talking about.
0:15:31 And it, you know, we showed in the last episode
0:15:33 that you could clone a website pretty easily with V zero,
0:15:34 but it wasn’t perfect.
0:15:36 There’s a lot of things that were different.
0:15:39 You know, it was probably like a 70% match
0:15:40 or something like that.
0:15:41 I would say they’re like in the realm
0:15:46 of like a 95% match now, which just, you know,
0:15:48 like for anyone who’s creating a new website now,
0:15:52 you could go to V zero and show it a UI that you like
0:15:53 or design.
0:15:54 – I think you can just give it a URL too.
0:15:57 Can’t you just say, I want a site that looks like this URL
0:15:58 and it’ll actually look at the URL for you?
0:16:01 – Well, what it’s doing is it looks at the URL
0:16:02 and it takes a screenshot.
0:16:03 – Yeah.
0:16:05 – And then it puts that into the system,
0:16:06 into the LLM or whatever.
0:16:07 And so that’s what they’re doing.
0:16:09 So like you could do it, if you did a design,
0:16:11 then obviously the same thing would work.
0:16:12 You design it, you put it in there
0:16:13 and it would give you the basic code
0:16:15 for that design as a website.
0:16:17 So like it’s unlocked so many new opportunities
0:16:20 and you know, you could have people copying people,
0:16:21 which you know, I’m not really a big fan of,
0:16:23 but that will definitely be happening.
0:16:25 So if you’re in business, be aware that people
0:16:27 will now be able to just literally type in your URL
0:16:29 and say, I want that, give me that.
0:16:31 And I don’t want to pay anyone for it.
0:16:33 I don’t want to hire the developer or anything.
0:16:35 I just want that.
0:16:37 And you’ll get like 95% of the way there.
0:16:40 The other big thing that, and the design is pretty good.
0:16:42 I would say VZero has got the best UI and design
0:16:43 out of any of them.
0:16:44 Yeah, I agree with that.
0:16:45 Yeah, I mean, it makes sense.
0:16:47 Like the founder I’ve actually met him,
0:16:49 I know him, Guillermo Roche, he’s a great guy.
0:16:51 And he’s really design focused.
0:16:53 You know, he’s always been like a huge fan of like Apple
0:16:55 and he loves Steve Jobs.
0:16:58 And so it makes sense that he’s super UI and design focused.
0:16:59 So they definitely have the best design
0:17:02 out of any of the like code generators with AI.
0:17:05 But also apparently it got way better on the back end.
0:17:06 Like apparently now when it,
0:17:08 not only is it like creating the landing page for you,
0:17:09 but if you want some kind of back end,
0:17:10 I don’t think it does everything yet,
0:17:12 but apparently it makes it way easier
0:17:13 to connect it to something right now.
0:17:14 And you could even,
0:17:16 it’ll help you to generate a database as well.
0:17:17 And you could connect it yourself.
0:17:19 And it does things even like,
0:17:21 like see, you know, secret keys and stuff like that.
0:17:24 If you know, if you have like a password for a database,
0:17:26 you can even store the environment variables
0:17:28 and stuff like that, which is the kind of thing
0:17:29 where when you’re coding, you might want something in there,
0:17:32 but you don’t want to put the password in the code.
0:17:34 You would have like a secret that handles all that
0:17:36 for you now and helps you do it.
0:17:38 Yeah, I wonder how many times people just put an API key
0:17:41 directly into their code and then throw that software
0:17:43 on GitHub and now everybody has your API key.
0:17:46 It happens pretty often, I’m pretty sure.
0:17:48 Yeah, I mean, so if they keep improving this fast,
0:17:50 I mean, it seems like it’s totally possible
0:17:52 that within like three months,
0:17:55 you’re going to be able to, like basic SaaS apps,
0:17:58 probably copy most of their features,
0:18:01 including the back end and everything and the UI.
0:18:04 And so that’s a, it’s a new world to be in.
0:18:05 I mean, you’ll definitely see, you know,
0:18:08 there used to be those guys that forgot the guy’s name,
0:18:09 the two brothers in Russia.
0:18:11 They used to be the two guys who were notorious,
0:18:12 like Silicon Valley hated them
0:18:14 ’cause they literally, like they just watched,
0:18:17 like they’d read TechCrunch and like any cool startup
0:18:19 that was like seemed to be getting traction,
0:18:20 they just copy them.
0:18:22 Oh, I remember hearing about that story a while ago.
0:18:25 I forgot their names, but they were like notorious.
0:18:27 And so you’ll probably say this, like even,
0:18:28 like at a larger scale, right?
0:18:30 ‘Cause you’ll, you’ll be able to copy anything
0:18:31 and put it in another language or whatever.
0:18:32 Yeah, yeah.
0:18:34 I mean, I don’t really see anything wrong
0:18:37 with like using another website for inspiration, right?
0:18:38 Like use it as a starting point,
0:18:40 but then like completely overhaul it, right?
0:18:44 Like, okay, I really like the way that, you know,
0:18:47 TechCrunch’s blog looks, make it look like that.
0:18:49 Okay, now I’m going to go change the colors.
0:18:51 Now I’m going to go change the font a little bit.
0:18:54 I’m going to go, and next thing you know, it, you know,
0:18:57 it has similarities, but it’s not the same website anymore.
0:18:59 Like I feel like that’s what it was designed for,
0:19:02 but I don’t think that’s what is going to be used for.
0:19:04 – Yeah, but I mean, the reality is though,
0:19:06 like web designers have been doing that for a long time,
0:19:08 right, there’s like, you pay them a ton of money
0:19:10 and then like you actually hang out with designers
0:19:12 and see what they do and a lot of it is like,
0:19:14 they got a bunch of samples of things they like,
0:19:16 they put it into a Figma and then they copy little bits
0:19:18 of pieces and edit some stuff
0:19:19 and then that’s kind of what they do, right?
0:19:21 – I’ve hired a whole bunch of designers myself
0:19:22 over the years, right?
0:19:23 And they always send you a questionnaire
0:19:26 and one of the questions on the questionnaire is like,
0:19:29 give me two or three websites that you really, really like
0:19:30 so that we could like, you know,
0:19:32 use that as a starting point, right?
0:19:33 So they’re always asking you like,
0:19:36 what sites do you want your site to be inspired by?
0:19:37 – So, I mean–
0:19:39 – Yeah, so on the positive side, like if you’re a company
0:19:42 or an individual looking to create like a new project
0:19:44 to test it out, especially look, you know,
0:19:47 we’re both like creators with decent followings.
0:19:48 I think like creators in a great spot
0:19:51 because if you want to test out a concept
0:19:53 and then share it and just see what happens,
0:19:54 it’s gonna be easier than ever.
0:19:56 It’s gonna be easier than even like Framer
0:19:56 and stuff like that.
0:19:59 ‘Cause at some point you’ll be able to do like AI voice too,
0:20:00 right?
0:20:01 And just like, just chatting with you like,
0:20:02 oh, I want to make something like this.
0:20:04 And like, oh cool, it’s done five minutes later,
0:20:06 tweet it out, see if people are interested.
0:20:07 They’re not, who cares?
0:20:09 You know, there’s like people forget a week later anyway.
0:20:12 So it’s gonna really change
0:20:14 how people create new products, I think.
0:20:15 – Yeah, for sure.
0:20:17 I don’t know if you’ve heard about this one yet or not,
0:20:22 but like Uber is getting into the game of AI labeling,
0:20:24 which, you know, is what scale AI does, right?
0:20:29 So basically they’re trying to start like
0:20:33 side hustle kind of thing where anybody can go
0:20:36 and look at a whole bunch of AI-generated images
0:20:40 and then label them or go read a whole bunch of dialogues
0:20:44 from chat transcripts and, you know, rank them
0:20:46 of like how good it did.
0:20:49 And you can actually get paid by Uber
0:20:51 to actually go and do that.
0:20:54 So Uber is getting into the like data labeling business
0:20:59 as a side hustle gig economy thing,
0:21:01 which I find really, really fascinating.
0:21:03 – Yeah, yeah, well, I mean, I think Uber
0:21:05 is in a very odd position.
0:21:08 They haven’t been really innovative in a long time.
0:21:10 You know, they fired Travis, the founder,
0:21:12 who very controversial figure.
0:21:14 I think I told you I met him before
0:21:17 and had a pretty negative interaction with him,
0:21:19 but he did do an amazing job at leading the company.
0:21:21 And ever since he’d been gone,
0:21:22 like they haven’t really done that many
0:21:24 new innovative things.
0:21:27 And now with, you know, the rise of like Tesla
0:21:30 and, you know, you’re gonna have like AI taxis,
0:21:32 you know, driverless taxis are coming.
0:21:33 Like they’re definitely coming,
0:21:37 especially now with like the new Elon Trump buddy party,
0:21:39 you know, whatever’s going on there,
0:21:42 like they’re definitely coming now.
0:21:43 And so since that’s happening now,
0:21:47 if I was Uber, I would be kind of terrified, honestly,
0:21:51 because they’re obviously behind in AI compared to Tesla,
0:21:53 like probably like dramatically behind.
0:21:56 And so this may be an effort to kind of do two things at once.
0:21:57 There are a few things.
0:21:59 I mean, one is you’re like kind of hedging your bed.
0:22:01 So if one of your business, you know,
0:22:04 units fall off when you’ve got this new business unit.
0:22:06 Another thing is you’re building up technical talent
0:22:08 for AI, which they’re gonna need for driverless.
0:22:11 And then at the same time, backup plan,
0:22:13 maybe Tesla or someone buys you.
0:22:16 Like he made yourself a more attractive acquisition target
0:22:18 because you have a better AI unit
0:22:20 and something that could be useful for them.
0:22:22 So that’s why I think it’s going on.
0:22:24 – Well, I also think, you know, on the flip side of it,
0:22:28 the sort of like side hustle, make money side of it,
0:22:31 it kind of pushes a little towards like a theory
0:22:33 I’ve talked about in the past of like,
0:22:36 I don’t know if the government is gonna offer
0:22:38 like a UBI kind of thing in the future.
0:22:39 I think what we might see,
0:22:42 at least in like a nearer term future
0:22:44 is like a lot of these companies
0:22:47 are going to figure out ways to do this like gig work
0:22:50 where people are making money doing stuff like this.
0:22:53 So if you’re like out of your accountancy job
0:22:56 because AI does accountant work now,
0:22:58 well now maybe you were making money by,
0:22:59 you know, driving people around
0:23:01 until the cars just do it for you
0:23:05 or labeling AI data for some of these companies, right?
0:23:08 I feel like that might be where that’s like
0:23:11 the sort of next like economical shift
0:23:13 is a lot more like people taking on a whole bunch
0:23:16 of like gig work to make their money
0:23:18 versus having like a traditional career path.
0:23:21 And I feel like this is sort of like a step
0:23:23 in that direction in my opinion.
0:23:24 – Yeah, that makes sense.
0:23:26 You know, it is interesting that
0:23:28 Elon Musk has been a proponent of UBI,
0:23:30 but now he’s really, you know,
0:23:31 more on the Republican side,
0:23:34 which is very like sees UBI as like a socialist concept
0:23:36 that you have to avoid.
0:23:38 I think the reality is gonna be somewhere in the middle,
0:23:40 probably like what people actually have to do
0:23:41 where like you probably,
0:23:43 eventually with AI when things become more abundant,
0:23:45 it probably will make sense for there to be something
0:23:48 where people’s basic living expenses are covered in some way.
0:23:51 But then maybe you do also have a gig economy on top of that
0:23:52 where there’s like actual extra incentives.
0:23:54 Like, okay, if you don’t wanna just like sit around
0:23:56 and play video games,
0:23:57 well like here’s extra incentive to go off
0:24:00 and actually do something productive, right?
0:24:01 – Well, I mean, even saying all that though,
0:24:04 like the sort of conservative,
0:24:05 like the Republican party,
0:24:08 almost all of the top people in the Republican party
0:24:10 were at one time Democrats, right?
0:24:13 So it’s just like a sort of like shifting
0:24:14 of that sort of line.
0:24:17 – Yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s just a label
0:24:19 and the label that what it means has changed.
0:24:21 – Yeah, for sure.
0:24:23 You know, and speaking of Elon Musk,
0:24:25 this is another news story that just came out
0:24:28 is that the rumor has it,
0:24:32 he wants to create an app to go head to head with chat GPT.
0:24:35 Now, obviously we’ve got Grock inside of X
0:24:38 and you can open up the X app on your phone
0:24:41 and use Grock directly inside of your phone.
0:24:45 But it sounds like he wants to make a standalone XAI app
0:24:47 that is like basically chat GPT,
0:24:52 but using the XAI technology and supposedly unbiased
0:24:55 and all the kind of stuff that he stands for.
0:24:57 – Yeah, I mean, we talked about this a little bit off camera,
0:25:00 but like, my take on it is he wanted X
0:25:02 to be the everything app,
0:25:04 which he clearly stated was
0:25:07 because he saw WeChat in China
0:25:08 and he realized that WeChat in China
0:25:10 is an app where you do everything.
0:25:11 There’s games in there,
0:25:13 there’s shopping, there’s social media,
0:25:16 there’s your banking, it’s all in one.
0:25:19 I think one thing that he probably didn’t really realize
0:25:22 is like the way users interact with apps in China
0:25:24 and America and Europe and everything,
0:25:26 it’s all very different.
0:25:28 And like in Japan, websites here,
0:25:30 like there’s some websites that are so,
0:25:31 there’s so much data on the website.
0:25:33 They’re like a, America would be like,
0:25:35 what is this horribly ugly website?
0:25:36 This is horrible.
0:25:38 What is all this nonsense on there?
0:25:39 There’s too much stuff.
0:25:41 I don’t know what to focus on.
0:25:43 For whatever reason, people in Japan love that.
0:25:47 They love there to be information dense.
0:25:49 Joe Yido from MIT, he’s talked a lot about this.
0:25:51 So like Japanese people, whatever reason,
0:25:53 they love UIs where things are information dense,
0:25:55 tons of information.
0:25:57 And I think that’s a kind of problem you run into
0:26:00 is like most Americans for whatever reason,
0:26:03 with X, they’re gonna think of it doing one thing.
0:26:04 You tweet on there.
0:26:05 I think he’s gonna have a hard time convincing people
0:26:07 that it’s a YouTube too.
0:26:08 – Yeah.
0:26:08 – Right?
0:26:10 ‘Cause like, no, they’ve got one thing in mind.
0:26:12 – Well, I mean, he’s trying to convince people
0:26:15 that it’s YouTube, it’s the next PayPal,
0:26:18 the next payment platform, it’s the next chat GPT,
0:26:21 it’s the, you know, the list goes on and on and on,
0:26:22 like literally the everything app,
0:26:25 like he wants you to just live on X eventually.
0:26:26 – Yeah, yeah.
0:26:28 He’s like I said, he’s modeling off of, you know,
0:26:31 China’s WeChat and people are different,
0:26:32 have different things that they want.
0:26:33 I don’t think it’ll work in America.
0:26:36 – Yeah, yeah, I think that’s a tough sell.
0:26:37 – Yeah, as a standalone, maybe it could work.
0:26:39 Like if he makes it cool, especially if he died,
0:26:42 like I could see it working ’cause like we said in the past,
0:26:45 GROC is really good at doing like funny images and stuff,
0:26:48 stuff that like the other ones won’t let you do.
0:26:50 So like if he does a good standalone app,
0:26:52 that now is all of a sudden the best one
0:26:56 at generating, you know, funny AI art, right?
0:26:57 Like memes or whatever.
0:26:59 I can see that being super successful.
0:27:00 – Yeah, yeah.
0:27:03 And I mean, right now GROC, it uses the FlexOne Pro,
0:27:05 which is probably the best one out there
0:27:08 at generating funny memes and, you know, realistic images.
0:27:10 So. – Yep, yep.
0:27:11 – So lots of interesting stuff going on
0:27:13 in the world of AI right now.
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