AI transcript
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0:00:38 – Hey, I’m John Glenn Hill,
0:00:41 host of a brand new show from Vox called “Explain It To Me.”
0:00:45 This week, the ethical murkiness of zoos.
0:00:47 – Do we as humans feel like we deserve
0:00:49 to just be able to walk around and see these animals?
0:00:52 Like, maybe we don’t deserve that.
0:00:55 Maybe there’s just some animals we don’t get to see.
0:00:57 – To zoo or not to zoo?
0:01:00 That’s this week on “Explain It To Me.”
0:01:02 Listen wherever you get your podcasts.
0:01:09 – An experimental procedure that is giving hope to–
0:01:11 – To get a heart transplant
0:01:13 from a genetically modified pig.
0:01:15 – There’s over 100,000 people
0:01:17 on the organ transplant wait list.
0:01:21 And some scientists think the answer might be pigs.
0:01:24 – Nobody in the world knew how a human
0:01:27 would react to a pig heart, right?
0:01:29 The next day when we asked him,
0:01:30 “You know, how are you feeling?”
0:01:31 He said, “Oink, oink.”
0:01:34 – This week on “Unexplainable,”
0:01:37 are pig hearts really the answer?
0:01:40 Follow “Unexplainable” for new episodes every Wednesday.
0:01:45 – Welcome to “Raging Moderates.”
0:01:46 I’m Scott Galloway.
0:01:48 – And I’m Jessica Tarlev.
0:01:49 – Jessica, where are you today?
0:01:50 What are you up to?
0:01:51 What are you doing?
0:01:52 – I’m at my mom’s house.
0:01:56 Like all good 40-year-old women who need a fireplace.
0:01:57 So they go to their mom’s apartment
0:01:59 to escape a potty training codler.
0:02:00 – I think the way you’re supposed to do it
0:02:03 is you have mom come over and watch the kids
0:02:04 and you go to the spa
0:02:06 or go to your friend’s house and eat ice cream
0:02:08 and smoke cigarettes.
0:02:10 I’m making a bunch of gender stereotypes here.
0:02:11 – I get it.
0:02:12 I’d like to continue with that, though,
0:02:15 to add to it that when my mom started dating again
0:02:18 after my dad passed away, when we were gonna put her online,
0:02:19 the joke was that her tagline
0:02:22 should be not that kind of grandma.
0:02:24 So she would not be the one coming over
0:02:28 to take care of the toddler and to do the potty training.
0:02:31 No, I mean, she’s into it, but she needs assistance.
0:02:34 She’s not a solo rider when it comes to that stuff,
0:02:37 but I’m appreciative of the apartment.
0:02:40 – Today, in today’s episode of “Raging Moderates,”
0:02:42 we’re previewing the VP debate.
0:02:44 Kamala Harris’ trip to the border
0:02:46 and her new economic plan, we’re gonna talk about it.
0:02:49 We’re gonna discuss NYC Mayor Eric Adams’ indictment
0:02:52 and to wrap up the episode, former Maryland governor,
0:02:54 Larry Hogan joins us for a quick discussion
0:02:56 on how the Republican Party feels about the election
0:02:59 and what it takes to govern across party lines.
0:03:02 All right, let’s light this candle.
0:03:03 The VP debate is here.
0:03:06 J.D. Vance and Tim Walls are going head to head
0:03:08 with just a month to go before election day.
0:03:10 Vance has been reviewing footage of Walls’ previous speeches
0:03:13 and studying his past policies.
0:03:14 Meanwhile, Walls spent the weekend
0:03:16 hunkered down in debate camp in Michigan
0:03:19 with Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg
0:03:21 playing the role of Vance in mock debates.
0:03:23 Jess, what’s your take here?
0:03:25 What should we expect on stage
0:03:26 and is this really going to move the needle?
0:03:28 Doesn’t matter.
0:03:30 – I think that it could matter.
0:03:33 I mean, historically, they don’t matter as much,
0:03:34 but there are a few instances
0:03:36 where I think people really got the message,
0:03:39 including the Joe Biden debate with Paul Ryan,
0:03:42 where I feel like really solidified things
0:03:45 for the ticket there in 2012.
0:03:46 – You think he beat Paul Ryan?
0:03:48 – I do, yeah.
0:03:50 I think Paul Ryan came off as wonky and detached
0:03:53 and Joe Biden was wonky and attached,
0:03:55 which made a big difference.
0:03:59 But I think this, similarly to the first debate,
0:04:03 I think this matters a lot more for the Democratic side
0:04:06 than it does for the Republican side.
0:04:08 I think that folks that are dug in
0:04:11 and they’re voting Trump Vance are voting Trump Vance
0:04:13 and there’s a lot more room to grow on the Democratic side
0:04:16 in terms of getting to know this ticket.
0:04:19 And something that I think Politico covered it,
0:04:22 but that has just been kind of ruminating in my circle,
0:04:25 is that one of the main reasons walls was picked
0:04:27 was that he was really good in interviews.
0:04:28 Remember, he was the first guy to say,
0:04:29 “They’re just really weird.”
0:04:31 I think he was on with Stephanie Ruhle.
0:04:34 And he was constantly on air.
0:04:36 And he was on our air on Fox, he was on CNN,
0:04:39 he was on MSNBC, doing every radio show.
0:04:42 And he’s disappeared a bit.
0:04:44 People haven’t seen him really since he became the VP
0:04:46 in the same way.
0:04:49 And so I think that this is a big opportunity
0:04:53 for him to remind people, like I’m good at this.
0:04:56 I may not be as wonky, but I know my shit.
0:04:58 I can talk to you about my record
0:05:00 and I don’t think you should apologize.
0:05:03 I know that the summer of the Black Lives Matter riots
0:05:06 is gonna come up and Minneapolis burning, et cetera.
0:05:08 I think he can make a really clear case
0:05:09 for why he’s been a great governor.
0:05:13 He won re-election in 2022 by an even larger margin.
0:05:14 He can talk about all of that.
0:05:16 But I think that he needs to remind people
0:05:19 that we are the normal ones.
0:05:23 He can do the job and that they’re ready on day one for this.
0:05:27 And someone smarter than me said to me,
0:05:29 “If you look at the transcript after the debate,
0:05:32 “don’t be surprised if it looks like JD Vance won,
0:05:34 “but in reality, Tim Walls did.”
0:05:36 Which I thought was an interesting way of looking at it.
0:05:37 What are you expecting?
0:05:40 And are you gonna stay up through the middle of the night
0:05:40 to watch?
0:05:41 – What time is it?
0:05:42 Is it 9 p.m.?
0:05:44 – 9 p.m., I don’t know why they do this all so late.
0:05:46 It should be like a 7.30 start, but.
0:05:48 – Well, yeah, but there’s this terrible thing called
0:05:50 California with 35 million people in it.
0:05:53 So it’s 6 p.m., I think it’s the best they can do.
0:05:55 And I’m not sure they’re catering
0:05:58 to the angry depressed people that relocated
0:06:01 from Delray Beach to London.
0:06:02 – Small demo.
0:06:05 – Yeah, I don’t know if we’re critical here.
0:06:09 Anyways, I was going to this a bit.
0:06:11 I think JD Vance is very intelligent.
0:06:13 I just think fundamentally, he’s a mythogenist
0:06:16 and also quite strange and has very fucked up views
0:06:18 on the relationship or the intersection
0:06:21 between government and civil liberties and women.
0:06:24 I think there’s something off there.
0:06:27 At the same time, if you’ve read his book,
0:06:29 I just don’t think there’s anything getting around it.
0:06:32 I think he’s brilliant, I think he’s very intelligent.
0:06:37 Also, there’s a certain sociopathy that he has demonstrated
0:06:40 given just how poorly he’s done, given that he’s probably
0:06:43 the least, I believe he’s the least popular VP pick
0:06:46 in history at this point in terms of his negatives.
0:06:48 It doesn’t seem to have phased him.
0:06:50 I bet he’s thinking this is a chance for me
0:06:54 to really kind of go hard and pick apart on arguments.
0:06:57 I think he’s going to be a formidable debating opponent.
0:07:02 Now, I would imagine if I had to project or speculate,
0:07:03 my guess is a lot of people are going to tune in
0:07:06 because they’re hoping for a total food fight.
0:07:10 But I just wouldn’t, I think Senator Vance is strange.
0:07:13 He is, I mean, we had Anthony Scaramucci
0:07:15 on the prop cheap pod and he described Steve Bannon
0:07:17 as one of the smartest people he knows.
0:07:20 And there’s something wrong there.
0:07:22 I think Steve is, I can’t even figure out
0:07:24 how he’s gotten to the place he’s gotten to
0:07:25 in terms of what he believes about America
0:07:28 and being an apologist for the insurrection.
0:07:30 I think J.D. Vance has cut from that cloth.
0:07:34 He’s one of those people that you know is just so bright,
0:07:36 but you can’t quite square the circle
0:07:39 on why he would decide to say that our country
0:07:40 is run by a bunch of people in New York
0:07:45 living in $5,000 a month, one bedroom apartments
0:07:48 who are childless and deeply unhappy.
0:07:50 I mean, I’m sure those people exist in New York.
0:07:52 The most of the people I know in New York are loving life,
0:07:54 are pretty happy.
0:07:57 And it’s like, where does he get this stuff
0:07:59 and what happened?
0:08:02 If there’s more of that, walls will win,
0:08:04 but I think he’s more disciplined than that.
0:08:06 I think walls right out of the gates
0:08:09 needs to do with Vice President Harris did
0:08:11 and try and put him on his heels
0:08:14 and talk a lot about some of the just ridiculous things
0:08:16 he said, what are your followup thoughts?
0:08:20 – I think he’s taking the culture war too far
0:08:23 and people who tend to live and die by the culture war,
0:08:26 it often doesn’t marry up with actually being super smart.
0:08:28 And that’s where JD Vance is,
0:08:31 the intersection of that.
0:08:34 He’s obviously wrong about New York and I grew up here
0:08:38 and most people here are what you describe,
0:08:43 but if he manages to rise above the fray
0:08:45 and I feel like walls will be throwing a lot
0:08:47 of this childless cat lady stuff at him,
0:08:50 eating the cats, eating the dogs,
0:08:52 they’re gonna be met with a very different response
0:08:55 than Trump who just starts sputtering
0:08:56 whatever he’s seen online
0:08:59 or what he’s seen from his favorite commentators.
0:09:02 And it is a bigger uphill battle,
0:09:04 I think than it would be in a debate with Trump.
0:09:07 And during the vetting process,
0:09:10 apparently walls voiced concern to Harris’s team
0:09:12 that he’s not a great debater.
0:09:15 He did say, I can do it, I have done it,
0:09:17 I don’t believe it’s one of my key strengths
0:09:20 and it’ll be interesting to see how nervous he is.
0:09:21 I mean, this is by far and away
0:09:24 gonna be the biggest night of his political life
0:09:27 and he’s the governor of a major state, right?
0:09:30 The sixth best state in the country to do business
0:09:33 and tomorrow night is going to be even bigger for him.
0:09:37 So I hope he just goes ahead with his game plan.
0:09:40 I think Pete Buttigieg knowing JD Vance,
0:09:42 like he’s got his number, right?
0:09:45 He knows exactly who he is, both have served,
0:09:48 talk about the same kind of values with Pete Buttigieg
0:09:50 actually living them versus JD Vance,
0:09:53 purporting to live by them.
0:09:57 And I think they will talk about really personal stuff
0:10:00 like immigrants with JD Vance married
0:10:03 to the child of Indian immigrants, talk about religion.
0:10:07 He was out over the weekend with a Christian nationalist
0:10:10 on his tour, the courage tour.
0:10:13 Someone who has said that Kamala Harris is possessed
0:10:14 by demons.
0:10:16 I think that all of these kinds of themes will be coming up
0:10:19 and if JD Vance can steer clear of a lot of it,
0:10:22 I think his favorability will still be negative 13,
0:10:23 but nothing will be hurt.
0:10:26 All the room to gain is really on walls aside.
0:10:28 – Yeah, I think the surprise issue here,
0:10:31 everyone’s expecting them to bring up immigration,
0:10:33 kind of the two eyes immigration inflation.
0:10:35 I think the third eye is going to play
0:10:38 perhaps a surprise role here and that’s Israel.
0:10:40 And there’s been so many, in my view,
0:10:43 really positive developments around debilitating,
0:10:47 defenestrating, decapitating, kneecapping,
0:10:49 whatever other terms I can come up with
0:10:52 for the largest terrorist organization in the world.
0:10:55 And I wonder who’s going to bring up Israel
0:10:59 and I think they’re going to try and out Israel each other.
0:11:03 I think both think, okay, I need to be to show anomalous
0:11:07 to the support or lack thereof or milk toast language
0:11:10 we’ve heard out of the White House regarding support Israel.
0:11:12 I think they’re both going to be trying to outmatch
0:11:15 each other and show even more and more resolute support
0:11:16 for Israel.
0:11:17 What are your thoughts?
0:11:18 – I wouldn’t be surprised.
0:11:20 It probably will be a question as well,
0:11:22 just since it’s so in the news
0:11:25 with, you know, dismantling Hezbollah.
0:11:30 And last night, I went to Douglas Murray,
0:11:33 who is a conservative commentator and journalist,
0:11:35 has something called the Save the West tour.
0:11:37 And he was at the Beacon Theater
0:11:41 and my husband and I went to see what it was all about.
0:11:45 And I disagree with a ton of Douglas Murray’s beliefs,
0:11:47 especially when it comes to Islam.
0:11:52 But he did go and embed in Israel right after 10/7.
0:11:53 He was embedded with the Ukrainians as well
0:11:55 after Putin invaded and he’s done a lot
0:11:58 of really interesting journalistic work.
0:12:02 And I mean, I could do hours on my takeaways from it.
0:12:05 But what really stuck out to me is that this room
0:12:09 that was full of Jews and Jewish allies
0:12:14 as far as the state of Israel really needed to be in a place
0:12:19 where they didn’t have to counter their feelings
0:12:21 about the Israeli offensive with,
0:12:24 of course, any loss of innocent life is a tragedy
0:12:26 or where they wouldn’t be called genocidal
0:12:29 for supporting BB’s actions.
0:12:33 And I felt that very strongly and he made one comment,
0:12:35 you know, whether you lean left
0:12:36 and no one really said anything
0:12:40 or whether you lean right and there was booming applause.
0:12:43 Now, that does not mean New York is going for Trump
0:12:45 or that Jews are going for Trump,
0:12:48 but you can see a desire on the behalf of people
0:12:53 who support Israel to not have to sugarcoat things,
0:12:58 especially in this moment, to just be damn proud of the IDF
0:13:00 and what they’ve been able to pull off.
0:13:03 You know, people wearing T-shirts that say bring them home,
0:13:06 saying I want to talk about the hostages every single day
0:13:09 until these people are back with their families.
0:13:13 It was moving in that respect on a very deep level
0:13:17 and I saw something that I had kind of read about firsthand
0:13:20 and was very thankful for the experience.
0:13:24 – I do think that the, what I’ll call the precise,
0:13:25 I mean, I would argue what’s happened
0:13:26 over the last couple of weeks
0:13:31 is the most precise anti-terrorist action taken in history.
0:13:35 And I do think that the Gulf nations,
0:13:38 the world do respect strength and that kind of expertise
0:13:41 and that kind of unapologetic defense.
0:13:43 And I’d like to think that this weird anti-American,
0:13:47 anti-Israel sentiment, largely or kind of the tip
0:13:49 of the spear has been the zombie apocalypse
0:13:52 that’s taking place in my industry on campuses
0:13:55 or the zombie apocalypse of useful idiots.
0:13:57 I would like to think that it’s bottomed,
0:13:59 that people see okay.
0:14:02 They are taking out people who were killing Americans
0:14:05 and thousands of Syrians and thousands of Lebanese
0:14:08 and have just invoked and created
0:14:12 so much despair and tragedy across Lebanon.
0:14:14 And there were people celebrating in the streets
0:14:16 across the Gulf at this guy’s death.
0:14:19 So I’m hoping this is a turning point
0:14:20 and just to bring it back,
0:14:23 I’d be shocked if it didn’t become
0:14:26 a pretty significant piece of content tonight.
0:14:28 – Yep, agreed.
0:14:31 And I will say, I thought that Kamala’s statement
0:14:34 on the murder or taking out of a Nuzrola
0:14:35 was very strong.
0:14:38 She called him a terrorist in the opening line.
0:14:41 And that’s exactly the kind of spirit
0:14:44 that we need to take to this fight.
0:14:47 And a crazy couple of weeks,
0:14:51 but I think that everyone is moving in the same direction
0:14:53 to your point about what’s going on on the campuses,
0:14:56 what commentators are saying, et cetera.
0:15:00 And BB’s kind of said, I’m gonna do this no matter what.
0:15:02 So are you coming with me?
0:15:05 Or I’m gonna take out someone that killed two,
0:15:10 it was a 250 Americans have been murdered by Nuzrola too.
0:15:13 – Yeah, yeah, well, it was a U.S. ordinance.
0:15:14 It was a U.S. missile.
0:15:16 They took out Hezbollah headquarters.
0:15:19 Okay, so anyways, we’ll be back after a quick break.
0:15:28 – When Kamala Harris and Donald Trump met
0:15:30 on the debate stage, it was obvious
0:15:33 that these were two very different people.
0:15:36 – But JD Vance and Tim Walls actually have a lot in common.
0:15:38 They’re both white men from the Midwest.
0:15:40 They’re both family men, and they were both in the service.
0:15:43 – But they disagree on what it means to be a man.
0:15:45 – Here’s my light pack.
0:15:47 Surround yourself with smart women and listen to ’em,
0:15:49 and you’ll do just fine.
0:15:51 – Today explained, every weekday,
0:15:52 wherever you get your podcasts.
0:15:58 – This week on Prophogy Markets,
0:16:00 we speak with Lena Kahn,
0:16:02 chair of the Federal Trade Commission.
0:16:04 We discuss ongoing antitrust cases,
0:16:06 how to measure consumer harm,
0:16:08 and her take on monopolies in big tech.
0:16:11 – We went through a 20-year period
0:16:14 where the Big Five technology companies,
0:16:17 Apple, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, and Amazon
0:16:20 collectively made over 800 acquisitions,
0:16:23 and not a single one of which was challenged at the time.
0:16:25 And now there are lawsuits
0:16:27 kind of retroactively identifying
0:16:30 that some of those were missed opportunities
0:16:32 and failing to stop those deals
0:16:34 had a really negative impact on the market.
0:16:37 – You can find that conversation and many others
0:16:39 exclusively on the Prophogy Markets podcast.
0:16:44 – Moving on, Harris made her first trip
0:16:45 to the US-Mexico border
0:16:47 since becoming her party’s presidential nominee.
0:16:49 This was only her second time there
0:16:51 as Vice President during her visit.
0:16:53 She criticized Trump’s immigration efforts.
0:16:55 Let’s have a listen.
0:16:59 – He made the challenges at the border worse.
0:17:01 And he is still,
0:17:06 and he is still fanning the flames of fear and division.
0:17:10 – The visit comes at a time when polls show voters trust
0:17:12 Trump and Republicans more in immigration.
0:17:13 And to no one’s surprise,
0:17:16 Trump called it a political stunt,
0:17:17 saying it’s too little, too late.
0:17:19 Jess, is there any truth to that?
0:17:21 Should Harris have made this move earlier,
0:17:24 or is this, you know, good campaigning?
0:17:26 I think it’s both.
0:17:29 I think that she has missed numerous opportunities
0:17:32 to be stronger on the border, to appear stronger.
0:17:35 And we can’t change the fact that we’re a visual species.
0:17:39 And seeing somebody at the crisis point
0:17:41 is different than hearing somebody talk about it
0:17:45 in an air conditioned room, in DC or Michigan,
0:17:48 wherever else you might be campaigning.
0:17:50 So I think there are missed opportunities.
0:17:52 I think it is also good policy for her to do it.
0:17:55 And we’re seeing like the latest Quinnipiac poll,
0:17:58 Trump’s advantage on immigration is down to eight points.
0:18:00 So you’re getting closer and closer
0:18:02 to a jump ball on the issue.
0:18:03 And I think that what she has been able to do
0:18:06 is not only emphasize the bipartisan border deal,
0:18:09 which Trump personally destroyed.
0:18:10 Right, he said, “I want a campaign on this.”
0:18:12 And Mitch McConnell said publicly that he did this.
0:18:15 James Langford met Romney.
0:18:19 But she is also offering people a bit of an offer.
0:18:21 And we say, it’s okay to like some of the things
0:18:23 that Trump is supportive of,
0:18:27 but you don’t need to pick Trump in order to get there.
0:18:29 So I will talk to you about more agents.
0:18:32 I will talk to you about more border wall,
0:18:34 something that she used to be very opposed to,
0:18:39 if it means that you will take this kind of more humane approach
0:18:41 to our immigration policy, like tough but humane,
0:18:44 I feel like is the tagline.
0:18:45 What did you think about it?
0:18:47 – I couldn’t decide if it was a good move or a bad move.
0:18:48 I don’t know how many people who believe
0:18:50 she’s been bad on the border
0:18:52 are gonna be swayed by her going down to the border,
0:18:54 or if she’s just bringing attention to an issue
0:18:58 that she’s fairly or unfairly considered weak on.
0:19:00 If I were her, I would just be hammering
0:19:02 around inflation at this point.
0:19:04 I think at the end of the day, I think most people
0:19:05 or a lot of people go into the voting booth
0:19:07 and says, “Who’s gonna put more money in my pockets?”
0:19:08 I’m fed up with government.
0:19:10 I just wanna know who’s gonna keep prices down
0:19:12 and get my salary up, what have you.
0:19:14 And I think his weakest, the soft tissue
0:19:19 or his Achilles heel is a combination of tariffs
0:19:21 and this weird anti-immigration policy
0:19:24 is just gonna absolutely bring inflation roaring back.
0:19:27 I would be doing that 25 hours a day.
0:19:31 And it’s, I don’t know, it just felt to me like,
0:19:32 I saw her down there and I thought
0:19:36 there’s gonna be a lot of eye rolls.
0:19:39 All right, Jess, let’s pivot to something,
0:19:42 I would say it’s less serious, but compelling.
0:19:45 We’re gonna talk about New York City Mayor Eric Adams.
0:19:47 He’s been indicted on federal corruption charges.
0:19:49 The feds are accusing him of taking bribes
0:19:51 from Turkish officials to push through permits
0:19:53 for their consulate, even though the building
0:19:54 didn’t pass inspection.
0:19:57 Plus, he allegedly scored massive discounts
0:20:00 on business class flights to Turkey.
0:20:03 I mean, it’s like, you know, when they say academics,
0:20:05 the reason we’re so vicious with each other
0:20:08 is because there’s so little to fight over.
0:20:09 It’s like, if you’re gonna go down,
0:20:11 you’re gonna go down over business class seats.
0:20:14 Anyways, I’m making light of something.
0:20:16 These are heavy charges ’cause they are in fact
0:20:18 corruption charges.
0:20:20 What is your read on the situation?
0:20:21 – Well, with the amount of buildup,
0:20:24 the number of phones that have been seized
0:20:27 from his top lieutenants, I think it’s up to six people,
0:20:29 six aides that they have their phones
0:20:32 and how long we’ve been talking about this,
0:20:37 I did expect bigger numbers, I guess,
0:20:39 for the scale of corruption.
0:20:41 But clearly the Southern District
0:20:44 wanted to air all of his dirty laundry
0:20:46 because they didn’t have to put everything
0:20:49 in the indictment, it was 56, 57 pages long,
0:20:52 including text messages, note to self,
0:20:54 obviously we’re gonna be doing crimes, don’t text,
0:20:56 like let’s do a crime now with a smiley face,
0:20:58 those kinds of things.
0:21:03 But they definitely wanted, they want him, right?
0:21:07 They think that he is somebody who has been doing this
0:21:09 for a very, very long time.
0:21:14 And I was thinking back to July when the fire chief
0:21:16 randomly resigned.
0:21:19 She’d only been in the job for a couple of years
0:21:22 and she just kind of popped up and was like, I’m out.
0:21:24 And I thought, well, that’s kind of weird, right?
0:21:26 ‘Cause the indictment story had been swirling
0:21:29 and they had been looking into people in Adams’ orbit,
0:21:30 but there was nothing about her.
0:21:33 And now, I mean, maybe it’s not a straight line,
0:21:37 I’m not sure between the Turkish building
0:21:40 that they wanted the fire assessment
0:21:41 to be changed on, right?
0:21:42 That wasn’t up to code.
0:21:46 And this woman saying, I’m tapping out.
0:21:49 But clearly something sinister was going on.
0:21:54 And I think as a New Yorker, what my main focus is,
0:21:57 whether he goes or not, and Huckle is not doing it
0:22:01 as of today, what does the next iteration
0:22:04 of the New York City mayoralty look like?
0:22:07 So if there’s a special election, Cuomo is eyeing that.
0:22:09 So then you’re gonna have someone that a lot of people
0:22:12 see as well as a gangster, but an effective one.
0:22:14 And is that the line now?
0:22:17 Like, we’re okay with corruption
0:22:18 if you’re good at your job,
0:22:20 but when you’re not so good at your job
0:22:23 and you’re corrupt, we’re not having it.
0:22:26 And I’m curious if you were paying attention to this angle.
0:22:29 Adams had spoken out against the Biden administration
0:22:30 for the migrant crisis.
0:22:33 And he gave a very stirring speech where he said,
0:22:35 like, help us out.
0:22:37 You can’t just do this.
0:22:39 You can’t saddle us with billions of dollars
0:22:40 in resources that we have to spend
0:22:43 without giving us the aid that we need
0:22:45 and also stopping this crisis.
0:22:46 It’s not just on the border.
0:22:48 It’s all across the country.
0:22:50 And do you think that that was part of this?
0:22:53 ‘Cause a lot of people do think they’re linked.
0:22:54 – The worst call you can get in the world,
0:22:56 other than obviously something regarding
0:22:57 the health of loved ones,
0:22:59 I think would be from the person
0:23:01 who runs the Southern District.
0:23:05 They’re just so smart and so fucking scary
0:23:07 and so aggressive.
0:23:09 And I think that part of what they do is,
0:23:11 one of the reasons you prosecute people
0:23:14 is obviously justice, that they’ll uphold the law.
0:23:15 But also, I think the Southern District
0:23:17 is really big on sending messages
0:23:19 to people in the finance industry.
0:23:22 They go after, they pick a target
0:23:25 and they’re unafraid, they’re unrelenting.
0:23:28 It’s just a call you don’t wanna get.
0:23:30 But when I read through it,
0:23:33 I quite frankly thought it was pretty underwhelming.
0:23:35 And it takes me to a couple of places.
0:23:40 One, his mistake, taking money from a group
0:23:43 and then using that to influence government actions
0:23:47 that favor them is kinda how the US government works.
0:23:48 For a small amount of money,
0:23:50 you give to a senator, to a representative,
0:23:53 you get access and if you need help
0:23:57 getting something approved, they’re there for you.
0:23:59 It’s always struck me with just a little bit of money
0:24:02 in Washington, how much access you can get.
0:24:04 – Even with foreign influence though,
0:24:06 I feel like that is a line in the hand with this.
0:24:09 – You stole my thunder, you stole my thunder.
0:24:10 – I give it back.
0:24:13 – The problem here is you’re not allowed to do it
0:24:15 from foreign nationals.
0:24:17 That is a bright red line,
0:24:19 especially a place like Turkey
0:24:21 where a lot of people would argue that
0:24:24 they’re not an ally of the US,
0:24:26 even though they weren’t, you wasn’t spying for them
0:24:28 or it wasn’t influencing,
0:24:32 this was fire safety at their consulate.
0:24:35 But nonetheless, you are not supposed to take money
0:24:39 from a foreign nation, much less a foreign nation
0:24:41 that we’re on sort of strange terms with.
0:24:43 So that’s where, quite frankly,
0:24:44 that’s where he really fucked up.
0:24:47 Where it takes me though,
0:24:51 is that this is a guy who grew up son of a single mother.
0:24:54 Never, you know, police chief probably made a good living
0:24:56 but living in Brooklyn probably never had,
0:24:58 you know, a ton of money.
0:25:01 And I think it’s very easy for these officials
0:25:03 to be seduced and start to rationalize.
0:25:07 I’m not excusing it, but I can see how this happens.
0:25:08 Oh, it’s a plane fare.
0:25:11 I get to stay at a nice hotel.
0:25:13 I’m not gonna do anything that damages America, the city,
0:25:16 but oh my God, fire safety, fuck yeah, just get it done,
0:25:18 right, they’re gonna create jobs or whatever,
0:25:20 we wanna be welcoming.
0:25:23 I can see how in his mind, he rationalized this.
0:25:25 And I’m not entirely sure.
0:25:26 When I read about this,
0:25:29 corruption charges Southern District,
0:25:31 I thought it was gonna be a lot worse.
0:25:33 And where I go though,
0:25:36 is that I think we should adopt Singapore’s model.
0:25:38 And that is, I think we should pay our elected officials
0:25:40 a million to $2 million a year
0:25:42 and have much tighter standards.
0:25:45 And just say, look, because the bottom line is,
0:25:46 they don’t make a lot of money.
0:25:50 So I believe the mayor makes around $258,000 a year.
0:25:52 Do you think we should increase the compensation
0:25:53 for our elected representatives?
0:25:55 I’m worried, let me preface this by saying,
0:25:57 I’m worried that the mayor of New York and other places
0:26:01 is basically gonna be these freakishly anomalous,
0:26:03 remarkable people focused on public service
0:26:05 and millionaires and billionaires.
0:26:07 And there’ll be no one in the middle.
0:26:10 – Yeah, I think that this is something that you would get,
0:26:12 you know, one of those 90% approvals for.
0:26:15 And the people who often say that elected officials
0:26:17 are not making enough have their own acts to grind.
0:26:19 And it’s not really about understanding
0:26:22 what the job entails and how important it is.
0:26:26 And I’m always struck by the fact that tons of members
0:26:28 of Congress in DC, they have roommates,
0:26:30 they share apartments.
0:26:32 You know, this is one of the most important jobs
0:26:33 in the country.
0:26:35 And I’m not saying it isn’t fun to have a roomy,
0:26:40 but you should be able to afford your own studio apartment
0:26:44 near Capitol Hill and also be able to afford to get home
0:26:46 to do your constituent work.
0:26:47 And you’re totally right.
0:26:49 Like Dan Goldman is my congressman.
0:26:52 He’s amazing, speaking of, you know, Southern District
0:26:56 prowess, but he’s also the heir to Levi’s fortune, right?
0:26:59 He can afford to be doing this,
0:27:03 whereas a lot of fantastic people can’t
0:27:05 or simply don’t want to because it’s not gonna have
0:27:08 the same kind of remunerative benefits for them, you know,
0:27:10 then going to work at a McKinsey.
0:27:11 – What do you think?
0:27:13 Do you think it’s gonna have to resign over this?
0:27:17 – I’m clear, but he’s definitely not out of the woods on it.
0:27:22 I think a lot will matter what Hockel signals about it.
0:27:24 I mean, she’s the only one who can remove him,
0:27:28 but certainly if she kind of Nancy Pelosi’s him, you know.
0:27:31 – Wouldn’t she just say, wouldn’t she just punt on it
0:27:34 and go let the voters decide in two and a half years
0:27:35 whenever it is, two years?
0:27:37 – Well, the primary thing goes in June.
0:27:39 – Oh, it’s coming up that quickly.
0:27:40 Oh, why would she do that?
0:27:45 – Well, it might be because there’s a corruption level
0:27:47 and we haven’t seen everything that’s to come.
0:27:49 I mean, they see someone else’s phones
0:27:51 even since this came down, but I don’t know,
0:27:53 Kathy Hockel also probably has a vested interest
0:27:57 in keeping Andrew Cuomo away from the mayoral race
0:28:01 and he’s kind of chomping at the bit to get back in there.
0:28:02 So.
0:28:03 – You stole my thunder again.
0:28:05 My prediction was Andrew Cuomo.
0:28:07 So what do you think his prospects would be
0:28:10 for winning mayoral race if for whatever reason,
0:28:13 Mayor Adams decides not to run again in 2025?
0:28:14 – I think they’d be pretty good.
0:28:18 I think that there are people who would feel
0:28:21 like they wanna choose competency
0:28:25 and that if it comes with a side of corruption
0:28:27 and a little bit of kissing
0:28:31 when you didn’t want it, Italian style as he put it,
0:28:34 like what was this defense, I’m just Italian,
0:28:36 that they might be able to look past that
0:28:38 because I think the field will be crowded
0:28:41 with a lot of very progressive people,
0:28:43 like the Scott Stringers of the world.
0:28:47 And I don’t know if that’s where New Yorkers wanna go.
0:28:51 If my Bloomberg is the gold standard for a majority.
0:28:52 I’m not saying there weren’t problems
0:28:53 with the Bloomberg administration
0:28:56 or there aren’t some lefties who didn’t really like him,
0:29:00 but in general, the city was cleaner, it was safer,
0:29:01 it was better run.
0:29:07 And I think that if Cuomo can try to grab that mantle back
0:29:10 that he would have a very viable shot.
0:29:12 And there are also a contingent of people
0:29:15 who just don’t think that he should have had
0:29:19 to leave Albany, that this was kind of trumped up
0:29:22 because of what happened with the nursing home deaths,
0:29:25 which is regrettable, and I wish that he would apologize,
0:29:26 just accept some responsibility.
0:29:29 And people wouldn’t even personally blame him,
0:29:31 say like you killed my grandpa,
0:29:34 but just to say there’s a chain of accountability
0:29:35 for these decisions.
0:29:38 And some of these decisions were not correct.
0:29:40 And I think that he would be in much better position.
0:29:42 (gentle music)
0:29:43 We’ll be right back to hear
0:29:46 from former Maryland governor, Larry Hogan.
0:29:46 Stay with us.
0:29:58 Welcome back, we’re joined by former Maryland governor,
0:30:01 Larry Hogan, a politician who has never been afraid
0:30:04 to buck the party line from leading Maryland
0:30:06 through two terms with bipartisan support
0:30:09 to his current bid for the U.S. Senate.
0:30:11 Hogan has shown a knack
0:30:13 for connecting with voters across the spectrum.
0:30:16 Governor Hogan, welcome to the show.
0:30:17 – Well, thank you very much.
0:30:19 Thanks for having me.
0:30:21 – We’re super excited to have you.
0:30:22 Thank you for joining.
0:30:25 And I paid particular interest to your campaign
0:30:29 as someone who is also not a fan of Donald Trump.
0:30:31 You’ve been a vocal critic and have distanced yourself
0:30:33 from much of the national GOP platform,
0:30:35 including Project 2025.
0:30:37 Just yesterday, you made some news
0:30:39 saying that you won’t be voting for Trump.
0:30:42 You haven’t in the past, but talking about it again.
0:30:44 So how do you see the future of the Republican party
0:30:46 and what role do you think moderates like yourself
0:30:48 are going to be playing in it?
0:30:49 – What a great question.
0:30:53 Yeah, I think I’ve been probably over the last eight years
0:30:57 or so one of the leading outspoken critics
0:30:59 about the direction of the party
0:31:01 and about Donald Trump in particular.
0:31:03 I’ve never been afraid to stand up.
0:31:05 I really didn’t break much news yesterday
0:31:07 because I’ve said over and over and over again.
0:31:10 That’s important, but it’s like every,
0:31:12 once a month, there’s a whole bunch of headlines
0:31:14 that say, “Hogan’s not gonna vote for Trump,”
0:31:16 which is what I’ve said for eight years,
0:31:21 but it’s, look, I’m concerned about the direction
0:31:23 of both parties, quite frankly,
0:31:26 but the Republican party moving off in this direction
0:31:27 of more of a MAGA party.
0:31:31 I’m kind of a traditional, I would say Reagan Republican.
0:31:35 I say I come from the Republican wing of the Republican party
0:31:36 and I want to see us get back
0:31:39 to a more hopeful vision for America
0:31:43 and a party that can appeal broadly to more people
0:31:46 and I want to see us focused on issues and solving problems.
0:31:49 And I know that some people say,
0:31:53 “Well, it seems as if you should just give up on that.”
0:31:55 And I’m just a guy that doesn’t like to give up
0:31:57 and I’ve been successful at winning
0:32:00 and arguably one of the bluest states in America
0:32:02 by convincing independents and Democrats
0:32:04 to cross over and vote for me
0:32:08 because I think most people really just want to see folks
0:32:10 work together and solve problems.
0:32:12 They want to see people reach across the aisle
0:32:15 in a bipartisan way and find common ground
0:32:16 for the common good.
0:32:18 And I’m not sure that we’re seeing a lot of that,
0:32:19 actually out of both parties.
0:32:22 We see a lot of finger pointing and name calling
0:32:26 and people more interested in just saying something outrageous
0:32:31 on cable news or online, in social media.
0:32:36 And I don’t come from the performative art school of politics.
0:32:39 I just want to try to see if we can find a way
0:32:40 to come up with solutions.
0:32:44 – It does feel as if there used to be
0:32:48 a lot of sort of Reagan Republicans in the Senate
0:32:50 and it seems one by one are moderates
0:32:52 who took pride in reaching across the aisle
0:32:55 and more pragmatists and ideologues.
0:32:56 And it feels as if the Republican party
0:32:58 said, “You’re not welcome here.”
0:32:59 It just feels like there’s fewer and fewer.
0:33:02 And I think it’s true on the Democratic side as well.
0:33:04 One, would you agree that it just feels like
0:33:08 there’s no place for moderates to hang their hats anymore?
0:33:11 And if you agree with that, why do you think that’s happened?
0:33:14 – Well, I agree that it’s happening in both parties.
0:33:18 I mean, if you just look at the folks that have left
0:33:20 and let’s focus on the Senate right now,
0:33:23 you have Kirsten Sinema and Joe Manchin
0:33:27 and Mitt Romney all leaving, and we’re,
0:33:30 there’s not a lot of folks kind of in that center,
0:33:33 problem solver, caucus kind of the folks
0:33:35 that were trying to work together across the aisle.
0:33:39 I was co-chairman of No Labels with Joe Lieberman
0:33:42 for three and a half years and our whole focus was on,
0:33:45 how do we find ways to govern from the middle
0:33:46 and get people to talk to one another?
0:33:51 And those three were a big part of the group in the Senate
0:33:54 that was trying to focus on that and now they’re gone.
0:33:59 And so I feel like there’s a huge void in the Senate
0:34:01 for that type of leadership.
0:34:03 And that’s one of the reasons why I stepped up to run.
0:34:07 I mean, I really didn’t need a job
0:34:08 and I wasn’t looking for a title,
0:34:11 but I’m concerned about the direction of the country
0:34:13 and I’m concerned that the Congress continues
0:34:17 to just become more divisive and more dysfunctional.
0:34:22 But whether there’s, I think there’s a huge demand
0:34:24 among the public and I’ve proven that
0:34:27 because I left office last January,
0:34:30 after eight years in a deep blue state
0:34:32 after getting things done over and over and over again
0:34:37 with 70% legislature cutting taxes
0:34:39 and cutting the cost of healthcare
0:34:41 and passing criminal justice reform
0:34:43 with Democrats and Republicans together.
0:34:47 I left office with a 77% job approval
0:34:50 and over 70 with every demographic, 79 with Democrats
0:34:54 and 81 with black voters and young voters and old voters.
0:34:57 So there’s a demand, people do like it
0:35:01 when you talk about common sense solutions
0:35:03 and they do like it when you work across the aisle
0:35:05 and when you have a different tone
0:35:09 and you’re willing to just disagree on the issues
0:35:11 without demeaning the other side.
0:35:13 I think it’s what they desperately want.
0:35:16 However, you’re right, that’s not what we have.
0:35:21 And so it’s, I think the elected leaders
0:35:25 do not really represent where most of the voters are.
0:35:28 40% of the people in America are now independent.
0:35:31 They’re far more than there are Democrats or Republicans
0:35:33 and it’s because they’re getting turned off
0:35:38 by the divisive rhetoric and by the more extreme positions
0:35:42 and they just want us to come together and fix things.
0:35:43 – Yeah, I wanna pick up on that.
0:35:45 So you’re in a competitive race.
0:35:47 I think the real clear politics average is six, seven points.
0:35:51 Lead for Angela also Brooks, who you’re running against.
0:35:54 We know Maryland is a deep blue state.
0:35:57 What issues are you finding are resonating
0:35:58 with your voters most?
0:36:01 And what do you say to people who have anxiety
0:36:04 about electing you who will be part
0:36:06 of the Republican infrastructure?
0:36:08 So let’s say Donald Trump does win
0:36:11 or even if he doesn’t win and majority of the party
0:36:14 has been overtaken kind of by the MAGA wing of things.
0:36:16 How will you serve as a backstop
0:36:19 against some of their more dangerous positions?
0:36:20 – Well, that’s exactly what I hope to do.
0:36:23 And I do have to convince some voters of that
0:36:26 because my opponent’s campaign is basically
0:36:28 just talking about red versus blue.
0:36:30 Like you have to vote Democrat
0:36:35 because I’m going to be somehow empowering the MAGA agenda
0:36:37 when I’ve been one of the leading voices against it.
0:36:40 And I think I can be that key voice in the middle
0:36:42 that’s willing to stand up.
0:36:45 Joe Manchin didn’t empower the far left
0:36:46 of the Democratic Party.
0:36:48 He stopped the crazy things from happening
0:36:52 and worked with Republicans to get things done.
0:36:56 I think, look at John McCain when John McCain called me
0:36:58 before he walked out on the Senate floor
0:37:01 to give the thumbs down on repealing Obamacare
0:37:03 ’cause he and I shared the same position
0:37:06 and I wanted to continue to cover the people in Maryland.
0:37:09 Sometimes one person can make a difference.
0:37:12 And I believe that I have the ability to do that.
0:37:14 I mean, I’m not naive enough to think I can fix everything
0:37:18 but I’m not going there to empower one party or another.
0:37:20 I’m going there to represent all the people of Maryland
0:37:23 and I’m gonna do whatever I think is best for the country.
0:37:26 And I think I’ve proven over and over and over again
0:37:29 that I’m willing to stand up to my party
0:37:31 and to the other party when I think they’re wrong.
0:37:33 I’ve stood up to the former president,
0:37:35 to the current president and I’m not gonna be afraid
0:37:38 to stand up to the next president, whoever that is.
0:37:41 I’ll work with them when I agree with them on an issue
0:37:43 and I’m gonna stand up and stop them when I don’t.
0:37:46 And so the people of Maryland know me,
0:37:49 that there are some, my opponent is saying,
0:37:50 even if you like Larry Hogan
0:37:53 and even if you voted for him twice for governor,
0:37:55 that’s 79% of Democrats that approved of the job
0:37:57 that I’m doing, I’m not winning all of them
0:37:59 because some of them are saying, we really like them.
0:38:01 We wish he was still governor
0:38:03 or we wish he had run for president
0:38:03 but we don’t wanna,
0:38:06 and we’re afraid of all those other Republicans in the Senate
0:38:09 and that’s the campaign we’re having to overcome right now.
0:38:12 And there are Democrats who say,
0:38:14 I wish I could vote for you.
0:38:17 Or they say, convince me that you’re gonna continue
0:38:20 to be the same kind of strong independent leader
0:38:21 that you’ll continue to stand up.
0:38:23 And so when I talk to them one-on-one,
0:38:24 I usually win them over,
0:38:27 but it’s hard to do that in a 30-second commercial
0:38:29 when you’re trying to reach millions of people.
0:38:30 – You sort of read my mind, Governor,
0:38:33 you’re literally out of central casting
0:38:38 for who moderates want more of NDC.
0:38:40 – I just think there’s such a huge base of people
0:38:41 who want somebody,
0:38:43 even if they don’t agree with them on every issue,
0:38:46 they say, this is a reasonable person
0:38:49 that isn’t trying to say inflammatory things
0:38:50 and make personal attacks
0:38:54 that get a ton of viral distribution on TikTok
0:38:57 that then raises a bunch of small dollar money,
0:38:58 never actually pass any laws
0:39:01 ’cause no one wants to deal with them
0:39:02 and wash, rinse and repeat.
0:39:05 It feels like there’s just so much of that in DC
0:39:08 and that we need this solvent called moderates.
0:39:10 At the same time,
0:39:14 I think that there’s probably some real fear
0:39:16 on the Democratic side,
0:39:18 if you say your center left,
0:39:22 that with SCOTUS going so far right
0:39:24 and with the Senate playing such an important role
0:39:26 around approving justices,
0:39:28 specifically I think around issues
0:39:30 including bodily autonomy,
0:39:34 that they’re gonna think, yeah, I really like this guy,
0:39:39 but I can’t risk the Supreme Court going further right
0:39:42 and even less representing people in the middle,
0:39:44 including moderate Republicans.
0:39:47 What would you say to give some of those people comfort?
0:39:49 – Well, yeah, I think people are concerned
0:39:51 about politicizing the court
0:39:54 and most people don’t want it to be politicized
0:39:56 to the right or to the left.
0:39:58 And it seems as if that’s the way we’ve been doing it.
0:39:59 Whoever has the power,
0:40:04 we’re trying to push through the most conservative judge
0:40:05 or the most progressive judge.
0:40:09 And look, I probably have more experience with judges
0:40:11 than most of the people or all the people in the Senate.
0:40:14 I appointed more judges in Maryland
0:40:17 than any governor in history, over 190 judges.
0:40:20 I appointed six out of the seven members
0:40:23 of our Supreme Court in Maryland.
0:40:27 It was the most diverse, most bipartisan judicial selections
0:40:30 in ever in history in our state.
0:40:34 I had all of my Supreme Court justices unanimously confirmed
0:40:37 by all the Republicans and all the Democrats in our Senate.
0:40:39 And it seems as if in Washington now,
0:40:43 we can’t even get one person to cross over,
0:40:46 to cross over and say, this is a qualified person.
0:40:48 I tried to make the best decisions
0:40:50 about did people have the right judicial temperament?
0:40:52 Did they have the right experience?
0:40:54 Were they gonna follow the letter of the law
0:40:56 as opposed to saying we have to have someone
0:40:58 that’ll take this position or that position.
0:41:01 They have to stand up for the left or the right.
0:41:03 I think it’s gotten out of control.
0:41:06 And I think, look, I think we need to make sure
0:41:08 that we have good judges appointed,
0:41:10 whether it’s Kamala Harris is the president
0:41:11 and she appoints a judge that I believe
0:41:13 is a qualified and decent judge.
0:41:15 I’m gonna vote for that judge.
0:41:18 If Donald Trump happens to get elected,
0:41:20 we’ll hope he appoints some decent judges
0:41:21 that I can support there too.
0:41:25 But I just don’t think we ought to continue
0:41:28 to try to jam through or change the rules
0:41:30 or have it swing back and forth every two years
0:41:33 or every four years, depending on who takes over
0:41:36 the House or the Senate or who’s in the White House.
0:41:38 We’re hopelessly divided right now.
0:41:40 And we need, it’s the same thing
0:41:42 on everything else we’re talking about.
0:41:47 We need common sense, compromise in the middle.
0:41:50 Not how do we jam through things on an extreme basis
0:41:51 to the left or the right?
0:41:53 And we need bipartisan buy-in.
0:41:55 We should have judges, we should have people
0:41:58 that senators on both sides of the aisle say,
0:42:01 this person’s obviously qualified to be on the bench.
0:42:03 – So just to double click on that,
0:42:05 based on your success and experience
0:42:07 appointing judges and betting judges,
0:42:09 the three most recent appointments,
0:42:11 Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, Barrett,
0:42:12 do you think the three of them,
0:42:14 had you been in the Senate at that time,
0:42:17 would you have advocated for their approval
0:42:19 and appointment to the Supreme Court?
0:42:21 – Well, I don’t wanna go back and look at past history
0:42:22 about what would have happened.
0:42:25 But I know that I spoke up when I thought,
0:42:27 against Mitch McConnell,
0:42:29 when I thought he was trying to jam through appointments
0:42:31 right before the election.
0:42:34 And I also stood up on Justice Kavanaugh
0:42:38 and said, we ought to have a full hearing of the facts of.
0:42:42 So I wasn’t there in the Senate, didn’t see all of it,
0:42:43 wasn’t part of all the hearings
0:42:45 and didn’t have to be in a position to make those decisions.
0:42:48 But in both cases, I stood up and said,
0:42:49 I stood up to my party.
0:42:51 I’ve stood up to my party when it’s hard.
0:42:54 And I’ll continue to do that.
0:42:57 – I guess Scott led with, people know you, right?
0:42:59 You’ve been around, I’ll figure a long time.
0:43:03 What is something that you wanna communicate
0:43:05 to your potential voters
0:43:06 that you don’t think they know about you
0:43:11 or how you would govern if you were able to win the seat?
0:43:14 – Well, I think that what I’d like to communicate is,
0:43:15 I’m running for the right reasons.
0:43:17 I only stepped up
0:43:19 because I’m very concerned about the country.
0:43:22 I’m concerned about making sure I get my party back on track
0:43:25 that we have a healthy and competitive two-party system.
0:43:26 And I want them to know
0:43:29 that I’m going to be the exact kind of leader
0:43:31 that I was for eight years as governor.
0:43:34 And I think we’ve developed a better track record
0:43:36 than almost anyone in America
0:43:39 for centrist common sense by partisan governing,
0:43:41 by for reaching across the aisle
0:43:44 and that I’m going to be the exact,
0:43:47 it’s a different job that Senator is.
0:43:50 And I know I’ve got to work with 99 other people,
0:43:52 but I’m going to continue to stand up
0:43:53 for whatever I think is right
0:43:55 for the people of my state and for the country.
0:43:58 And I’m not going to be towing the line
0:44:01 or being a rubber stamp for one party or another.
0:44:04 – Are you gonna vote for Kamala?
0:44:05 – No, I’ve said I wasn’t,
0:44:07 neither one of them has really earned my vote,
0:44:10 but I certainly am very pleased
0:44:15 that we have a lot of Harris Hogan split ticket folks
0:44:16 across the state of Maryland.
0:44:17 We currently have about 30% of them.
0:44:22 And interestingly, you’ll see sometimes a Harris
0:44:24 and Hogan yard sign in front of somebody’s house.
0:44:28 So I have to try to earn the support of people
0:44:30 on both sides of the aisle from the right and the left.
0:44:33 And that’s what I’ve always been able to do.
0:44:36 – Yeah, we should point out that polling shows
0:44:38 that a significant percentage of Harris voters
0:44:40 are backing you for the Senate.
0:44:44 And I think that speaks to your reputation as a moderate.
0:44:45 – Well, I need a few more of them.
0:44:46 So we’re still working hard.
0:44:47 – We need more of them?
0:44:50 – Over the next several weeks.
0:44:52 – My sense is that’s why you’re here.
0:44:55 So look, you’ve been in this game a while.
0:44:58 You obviously have really strong political instincts.
0:45:01 Handicap, we’ve been talking about the debate tonight,
0:45:02 the state of the election.
0:45:04 It feels like the polls are almost meaningless noise
0:45:05 at this point.
0:45:07 Any observations or insight you have about
0:45:10 the current state of the race or anything that surprised you
0:45:11 or you think the media is not covering?
0:45:14 – I’m just hoping on the vice presidential debate
0:45:18 that we’ll finally hear some honest discussion of the issues.
0:45:20 I think that’s been lacking in the campaign,
0:45:22 quite frankly, from the presidential candidates
0:45:25 and from the vice presidential candidates.
0:45:28 And I’m hoping it’s not just a food fight
0:45:31 and talking about crazy things,
0:45:33 but we’ll actually hear what each person has to say
0:45:35 about what their positions are.
0:45:38 On the race, I think it’s very close.
0:45:42 Just, I’m not a pundit or a political expert,
0:45:45 but I think the presidential race
0:45:47 is gonna go down to the wire.
0:45:51 And I think that people are really gonna have to get out there
0:45:54 and make their decision and I have no idea
0:45:55 what’s gonna happen in November.
0:45:58 I’m hoping that we’re gonna be able to get in there
0:46:00 and try to make a difference in the Senate.
0:46:04 And I’ll work with whoever is elected president.
0:46:06 I was governor through three presidents
0:46:08 and I worked with President Obama,
0:46:10 with the Trump administration for four years
0:46:11 and then with President Biden.
0:46:14 And whether it’s Donald Trump or Kamala Harris,
0:46:16 I’ll try to work with them when I agree
0:46:18 and help them get things done.
0:46:21 And when I disagree, I don’t think there’s any,
0:46:24 and nobody doubts that I’ll stand up and push back
0:46:28 and do what I think is right.
0:46:30 – Governor, you’re part of a rare species
0:46:31 we hardly see anymore
0:46:34 and we would like to see repopulate the earth.
0:46:36 We really appreciate.
0:46:38 – Well, I thought we were extinct,
0:46:41 but there’s one left, I guess, I’m a unicorn,
0:46:43 but I’m gonna try to find some more people
0:46:44 to come hang out with me.
0:46:45 And I really do believe
0:46:48 that sometimes one person can make a difference.
0:46:51 And there are at least a handful on both sides of the aisle
0:46:52 that kind of agree with me.
0:46:55 Maybe they’re not always speaking out quite as much,
0:46:59 but I’m hoping I can get a centrist caucus
0:47:01 in the United States Senate that’s willing to work together.
0:47:04 – Great, thanks, governor, and stay safe on the trail.
0:47:10 All right, last thing, prediction on tonight.
0:47:13 – Everybody will get to say that their guy won
0:47:17 and that it matters more for the democratic side,
0:47:19 that we need this more for walls
0:47:20 than we do necessarily for vans
0:47:25 who will continue to be reviled to some degree.
0:47:27 Yup.
0:47:30 – I’m gonna punt and just read funny jokes about Tim Walls.
0:47:32 My real concern with Governor Tim Walls
0:47:33 is that he seems like the kind of guy
0:47:35 if you leave your car unlocked in the summer,
0:47:38 he’s going to leave you six zucchini’s on your front seat.
0:47:40 That was pretty good.
0:47:42 Walls has the vibes of a man who makes short helpful videos
0:47:45 on how to fix garbage disposals in his spare time,
0:47:47 like that one.
0:47:49 Last one, Tim Walls is the kind of guy
0:47:51 who tells you to watch for deer
0:47:54 and call us when you get home before you depart his house.
0:47:55 Like that one, that’s my favorite.
0:47:57 – I love that guy.
0:47:59 Like the guy who’s like cares if you got home.
0:48:01 – One more, Tim Walls 1000% says,
0:48:05 “What’s the damage when the waiter hands him the check?”
0:48:06 I like that one too.
0:48:07 – Yeah.
0:48:08 – Okay, good stuff.
0:48:09 – Very cute.
0:48:10 – That’s all for this episode.
0:48:12 Thank you for listening to Raging Moderates,
0:48:15 our producers are Caroline Shagren and David Toledo,
0:48:17 our technical producers, Drew Burroughs.
0:48:18 You can find Raging Moderates
0:48:21 on the Prop G pod every Tuesday.
0:48:22 Please subscribe.
0:48:23 Right now we’re in the Prop G feed,
0:48:25 but soon we’re gonna be going to our own feed.
0:48:28 So please subscribe and download.
0:48:31 (upbeat music)
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0:00:38 – Hey, I’m John Glenn Hill,
0:00:41 host of a brand new show from Vox called “Explain It To Me.”
0:00:45 This week, the ethical murkiness of zoos.
0:00:47 – Do we as humans feel like we deserve
0:00:49 to just be able to walk around and see these animals?
0:00:52 Like, maybe we don’t deserve that.
0:00:55 Maybe there’s just some animals we don’t get to see.
0:00:57 – To zoo or not to zoo?
0:01:00 That’s this week on “Explain It To Me.”
0:01:02 Listen wherever you get your podcasts.
0:01:09 – An experimental procedure that is giving hope to–
0:01:11 – To get a heart transplant
0:01:13 from a genetically modified pig.
0:01:15 – There’s over 100,000 people
0:01:17 on the organ transplant wait list.
0:01:21 And some scientists think the answer might be pigs.
0:01:24 – Nobody in the world knew how a human
0:01:27 would react to a pig heart, right?
0:01:29 The next day when we asked him,
0:01:30 “You know, how are you feeling?”
0:01:31 He said, “Oink, oink.”
0:01:34 – This week on “Unexplainable,”
0:01:37 are pig hearts really the answer?
0:01:40 Follow “Unexplainable” for new episodes every Wednesday.
0:01:45 – Welcome to “Raging Moderates.”
0:01:46 I’m Scott Galloway.
0:01:48 – And I’m Jessica Tarlev.
0:01:49 – Jessica, where are you today?
0:01:50 What are you up to?
0:01:51 What are you doing?
0:01:52 – I’m at my mom’s house.
0:01:56 Like all good 40-year-old women who need a fireplace.
0:01:57 So they go to their mom’s apartment
0:01:59 to escape a potty training codler.
0:02:00 – I think the way you’re supposed to do it
0:02:03 is you have mom come over and watch the kids
0:02:04 and you go to the spa
0:02:06 or go to your friend’s house and eat ice cream
0:02:08 and smoke cigarettes.
0:02:10 I’m making a bunch of gender stereotypes here.
0:02:11 – I get it.
0:02:12 I’d like to continue with that, though,
0:02:15 to add to it that when my mom started dating again
0:02:18 after my dad passed away, when we were gonna put her online,
0:02:19 the joke was that her tagline
0:02:22 should be not that kind of grandma.
0:02:24 So she would not be the one coming over
0:02:28 to take care of the toddler and to do the potty training.
0:02:31 No, I mean, she’s into it, but she needs assistance.
0:02:34 She’s not a solo rider when it comes to that stuff,
0:02:37 but I’m appreciative of the apartment.
0:02:40 – Today, in today’s episode of “Raging Moderates,”
0:02:42 we’re previewing the VP debate.
0:02:44 Kamala Harris’ trip to the border
0:02:46 and her new economic plan, we’re gonna talk about it.
0:02:49 We’re gonna discuss NYC Mayor Eric Adams’ indictment
0:02:52 and to wrap up the episode, former Maryland governor,
0:02:54 Larry Hogan joins us for a quick discussion
0:02:56 on how the Republican Party feels about the election
0:02:59 and what it takes to govern across party lines.
0:03:02 All right, let’s light this candle.
0:03:03 The VP debate is here.
0:03:06 J.D. Vance and Tim Walls are going head to head
0:03:08 with just a month to go before election day.
0:03:10 Vance has been reviewing footage of Walls’ previous speeches
0:03:13 and studying his past policies.
0:03:14 Meanwhile, Walls spent the weekend
0:03:16 hunkered down in debate camp in Michigan
0:03:19 with Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg
0:03:21 playing the role of Vance in mock debates.
0:03:23 Jess, what’s your take here?
0:03:25 What should we expect on stage
0:03:26 and is this really going to move the needle?
0:03:28 Doesn’t matter.
0:03:30 – I think that it could matter.
0:03:33 I mean, historically, they don’t matter as much,
0:03:34 but there are a few instances
0:03:36 where I think people really got the message,
0:03:39 including the Joe Biden debate with Paul Ryan,
0:03:42 where I feel like really solidified things
0:03:45 for the ticket there in 2012.
0:03:46 – You think he beat Paul Ryan?
0:03:48 – I do, yeah.
0:03:50 I think Paul Ryan came off as wonky and detached
0:03:53 and Joe Biden was wonky and attached,
0:03:55 which made a big difference.
0:03:59 But I think this, similarly to the first debate,
0:04:03 I think this matters a lot more for the Democratic side
0:04:06 than it does for the Republican side.
0:04:08 I think that folks that are dug in
0:04:11 and they’re voting Trump Vance are voting Trump Vance
0:04:13 and there’s a lot more room to grow on the Democratic side
0:04:16 in terms of getting to know this ticket.
0:04:19 And something that I think Politico covered it,
0:04:22 but that has just been kind of ruminating in my circle,
0:04:25 is that one of the main reasons walls was picked
0:04:27 was that he was really good in interviews.
0:04:28 Remember, he was the first guy to say,
0:04:29 “They’re just really weird.”
0:04:31 I think he was on with Stephanie Ruhle.
0:04:34 And he was constantly on air.
0:04:36 And he was on our air on Fox, he was on CNN,
0:04:39 he was on MSNBC, doing every radio show.
0:04:42 And he’s disappeared a bit.
0:04:44 People haven’t seen him really since he became the VP
0:04:46 in the same way.
0:04:49 And so I think that this is a big opportunity
0:04:53 for him to remind people, like I’m good at this.
0:04:56 I may not be as wonky, but I know my shit.
0:04:58 I can talk to you about my record
0:05:00 and I don’t think you should apologize.
0:05:03 I know that the summer of the Black Lives Matter riots
0:05:06 is gonna come up and Minneapolis burning, et cetera.
0:05:08 I think he can make a really clear case
0:05:09 for why he’s been a great governor.
0:05:13 He won re-election in 2022 by an even larger margin.
0:05:14 He can talk about all of that.
0:05:16 But I think that he needs to remind people
0:05:19 that we are the normal ones.
0:05:23 He can do the job and that they’re ready on day one for this.
0:05:27 And someone smarter than me said to me,
0:05:29 “If you look at the transcript after the debate,
0:05:32 “don’t be surprised if it looks like JD Vance won,
0:05:34 “but in reality, Tim Walls did.”
0:05:36 Which I thought was an interesting way of looking at it.
0:05:37 What are you expecting?
0:05:40 And are you gonna stay up through the middle of the night
0:05:40 to watch?
0:05:41 – What time is it?
0:05:42 Is it 9 p.m.?
0:05:44 – 9 p.m., I don’t know why they do this all so late.
0:05:46 It should be like a 7.30 start, but.
0:05:48 – Well, yeah, but there’s this terrible thing called
0:05:50 California with 35 million people in it.
0:05:53 So it’s 6 p.m., I think it’s the best they can do.
0:05:55 And I’m not sure they’re catering
0:05:58 to the angry depressed people that relocated
0:06:01 from Delray Beach to London.
0:06:02 – Small demo.
0:06:05 – Yeah, I don’t know if we’re critical here.
0:06:09 Anyways, I was going to this a bit.
0:06:11 I think JD Vance is very intelligent.
0:06:13 I just think fundamentally, he’s a mythogenist
0:06:16 and also quite strange and has very fucked up views
0:06:18 on the relationship or the intersection
0:06:21 between government and civil liberties and women.
0:06:24 I think there’s something off there.
0:06:27 At the same time, if you’ve read his book,
0:06:29 I just don’t think there’s anything getting around it.
0:06:32 I think he’s brilliant, I think he’s very intelligent.
0:06:37 Also, there’s a certain sociopathy that he has demonstrated
0:06:40 given just how poorly he’s done, given that he’s probably
0:06:43 the least, I believe he’s the least popular VP pick
0:06:46 in history at this point in terms of his negatives.
0:06:48 It doesn’t seem to have phased him.
0:06:50 I bet he’s thinking this is a chance for me
0:06:54 to really kind of go hard and pick apart on arguments.
0:06:57 I think he’s going to be a formidable debating opponent.
0:07:02 Now, I would imagine if I had to project or speculate,
0:07:03 my guess is a lot of people are going to tune in
0:07:06 because they’re hoping for a total food fight.
0:07:10 But I just wouldn’t, I think Senator Vance is strange.
0:07:13 He is, I mean, we had Anthony Scaramucci
0:07:15 on the prop cheap pod and he described Steve Bannon
0:07:17 as one of the smartest people he knows.
0:07:20 And there’s something wrong there.
0:07:22 I think Steve is, I can’t even figure out
0:07:24 how he’s gotten to the place he’s gotten to
0:07:25 in terms of what he believes about America
0:07:28 and being an apologist for the insurrection.
0:07:30 I think J.D. Vance has cut from that cloth.
0:07:34 He’s one of those people that you know is just so bright,
0:07:36 but you can’t quite square the circle
0:07:39 on why he would decide to say that our country
0:07:40 is run by a bunch of people in New York
0:07:45 living in $5,000 a month, one bedroom apartments
0:07:48 who are childless and deeply unhappy.
0:07:50 I mean, I’m sure those people exist in New York.
0:07:52 The most of the people I know in New York are loving life,
0:07:54 are pretty happy.
0:07:57 And it’s like, where does he get this stuff
0:07:59 and what happened?
0:08:02 If there’s more of that, walls will win,
0:08:04 but I think he’s more disciplined than that.
0:08:06 I think walls right out of the gates
0:08:09 needs to do with Vice President Harris did
0:08:11 and try and put him on his heels
0:08:14 and talk a lot about some of the just ridiculous things
0:08:16 he said, what are your followup thoughts?
0:08:20 – I think he’s taking the culture war too far
0:08:23 and people who tend to live and die by the culture war,
0:08:26 it often doesn’t marry up with actually being super smart.
0:08:28 And that’s where JD Vance is,
0:08:31 the intersection of that.
0:08:34 He’s obviously wrong about New York and I grew up here
0:08:38 and most people here are what you describe,
0:08:43 but if he manages to rise above the fray
0:08:45 and I feel like walls will be throwing a lot
0:08:47 of this childless cat lady stuff at him,
0:08:50 eating the cats, eating the dogs,
0:08:52 they’re gonna be met with a very different response
0:08:55 than Trump who just starts sputtering
0:08:56 whatever he’s seen online
0:08:59 or what he’s seen from his favorite commentators.
0:09:02 And it is a bigger uphill battle,
0:09:04 I think than it would be in a debate with Trump.
0:09:07 And during the vetting process,
0:09:10 apparently walls voiced concern to Harris’s team
0:09:12 that he’s not a great debater.
0:09:15 He did say, I can do it, I have done it,
0:09:17 I don’t believe it’s one of my key strengths
0:09:20 and it’ll be interesting to see how nervous he is.
0:09:21 I mean, this is by far and away
0:09:24 gonna be the biggest night of his political life
0:09:27 and he’s the governor of a major state, right?
0:09:30 The sixth best state in the country to do business
0:09:33 and tomorrow night is going to be even bigger for him.
0:09:37 So I hope he just goes ahead with his game plan.
0:09:40 I think Pete Buttigieg knowing JD Vance,
0:09:42 like he’s got his number, right?
0:09:45 He knows exactly who he is, both have served,
0:09:48 talk about the same kind of values with Pete Buttigieg
0:09:50 actually living them versus JD Vance,
0:09:53 purporting to live by them.
0:09:57 And I think they will talk about really personal stuff
0:10:00 like immigrants with JD Vance married
0:10:03 to the child of Indian immigrants, talk about religion.
0:10:07 He was out over the weekend with a Christian nationalist
0:10:10 on his tour, the courage tour.
0:10:13 Someone who has said that Kamala Harris is possessed
0:10:14 by demons.
0:10:16 I think that all of these kinds of themes will be coming up
0:10:19 and if JD Vance can steer clear of a lot of it,
0:10:22 I think his favorability will still be negative 13,
0:10:23 but nothing will be hurt.
0:10:26 All the room to gain is really on walls aside.
0:10:28 – Yeah, I think the surprise issue here,
0:10:31 everyone’s expecting them to bring up immigration,
0:10:33 kind of the two eyes immigration inflation.
0:10:35 I think the third eye is going to play
0:10:38 perhaps a surprise role here and that’s Israel.
0:10:40 And there’s been so many, in my view,
0:10:43 really positive developments around debilitating,
0:10:47 defenestrating, decapitating, kneecapping,
0:10:49 whatever other terms I can come up with
0:10:52 for the largest terrorist organization in the world.
0:10:55 And I wonder who’s going to bring up Israel
0:10:59 and I think they’re going to try and out Israel each other.
0:11:03 I think both think, okay, I need to be to show anomalous
0:11:07 to the support or lack thereof or milk toast language
0:11:10 we’ve heard out of the White House regarding support Israel.
0:11:12 I think they’re both going to be trying to outmatch
0:11:15 each other and show even more and more resolute support
0:11:16 for Israel.
0:11:17 What are your thoughts?
0:11:18 – I wouldn’t be surprised.
0:11:20 It probably will be a question as well,
0:11:22 just since it’s so in the news
0:11:25 with, you know, dismantling Hezbollah.
0:11:30 And last night, I went to Douglas Murray,
0:11:33 who is a conservative commentator and journalist,
0:11:35 has something called the Save the West tour.
0:11:37 And he was at the Beacon Theater
0:11:41 and my husband and I went to see what it was all about.
0:11:45 And I disagree with a ton of Douglas Murray’s beliefs,
0:11:47 especially when it comes to Islam.
0:11:52 But he did go and embed in Israel right after 10/7.
0:11:53 He was embedded with the Ukrainians as well
0:11:55 after Putin invaded and he’s done a lot
0:11:58 of really interesting journalistic work.
0:12:02 And I mean, I could do hours on my takeaways from it.
0:12:05 But what really stuck out to me is that this room
0:12:09 that was full of Jews and Jewish allies
0:12:14 as far as the state of Israel really needed to be in a place
0:12:19 where they didn’t have to counter their feelings
0:12:21 about the Israeli offensive with,
0:12:24 of course, any loss of innocent life is a tragedy
0:12:26 or where they wouldn’t be called genocidal
0:12:29 for supporting BB’s actions.
0:12:33 And I felt that very strongly and he made one comment,
0:12:35 you know, whether you lean left
0:12:36 and no one really said anything
0:12:40 or whether you lean right and there was booming applause.
0:12:43 Now, that does not mean New York is going for Trump
0:12:45 or that Jews are going for Trump,
0:12:48 but you can see a desire on the behalf of people
0:12:53 who support Israel to not have to sugarcoat things,
0:12:58 especially in this moment, to just be damn proud of the IDF
0:13:00 and what they’ve been able to pull off.
0:13:03 You know, people wearing T-shirts that say bring them home,
0:13:06 saying I want to talk about the hostages every single day
0:13:09 until these people are back with their families.
0:13:13 It was moving in that respect on a very deep level
0:13:17 and I saw something that I had kind of read about firsthand
0:13:20 and was very thankful for the experience.
0:13:24 – I do think that the, what I’ll call the precise,
0:13:25 I mean, I would argue what’s happened
0:13:26 over the last couple of weeks
0:13:31 is the most precise anti-terrorist action taken in history.
0:13:35 And I do think that the Gulf nations,
0:13:38 the world do respect strength and that kind of expertise
0:13:41 and that kind of unapologetic defense.
0:13:43 And I’d like to think that this weird anti-American,
0:13:47 anti-Israel sentiment, largely or kind of the tip
0:13:49 of the spear has been the zombie apocalypse
0:13:52 that’s taking place in my industry on campuses
0:13:55 or the zombie apocalypse of useful idiots.
0:13:57 I would like to think that it’s bottomed,
0:13:59 that people see okay.
0:14:02 They are taking out people who were killing Americans
0:14:05 and thousands of Syrians and thousands of Lebanese
0:14:08 and have just invoked and created
0:14:12 so much despair and tragedy across Lebanon.
0:14:14 And there were people celebrating in the streets
0:14:16 across the Gulf at this guy’s death.
0:14:19 So I’m hoping this is a turning point
0:14:20 and just to bring it back,
0:14:23 I’d be shocked if it didn’t become
0:14:26 a pretty significant piece of content tonight.
0:14:28 – Yep, agreed.
0:14:31 And I will say, I thought that Kamala’s statement
0:14:34 on the murder or taking out of a Nuzrola
0:14:35 was very strong.
0:14:38 She called him a terrorist in the opening line.
0:14:41 And that’s exactly the kind of spirit
0:14:44 that we need to take to this fight.
0:14:47 And a crazy couple of weeks,
0:14:51 but I think that everyone is moving in the same direction
0:14:53 to your point about what’s going on on the campuses,
0:14:56 what commentators are saying, et cetera.
0:15:00 And BB’s kind of said, I’m gonna do this no matter what.
0:15:02 So are you coming with me?
0:15:05 Or I’m gonna take out someone that killed two,
0:15:10 it was a 250 Americans have been murdered by Nuzrola too.
0:15:13 – Yeah, yeah, well, it was a U.S. ordinance.
0:15:14 It was a U.S. missile.
0:15:16 They took out Hezbollah headquarters.
0:15:19 Okay, so anyways, we’ll be back after a quick break.
0:15:28 – When Kamala Harris and Donald Trump met
0:15:30 on the debate stage, it was obvious
0:15:33 that these were two very different people.
0:15:36 – But JD Vance and Tim Walls actually have a lot in common.
0:15:38 They’re both white men from the Midwest.
0:15:40 They’re both family men, and they were both in the service.
0:15:43 – But they disagree on what it means to be a man.
0:15:45 – Here’s my light pack.
0:15:47 Surround yourself with smart women and listen to ’em,
0:15:49 and you’ll do just fine.
0:15:51 – Today explained, every weekday,
0:15:52 wherever you get your podcasts.
0:15:58 – This week on Prophogy Markets,
0:16:00 we speak with Lena Kahn,
0:16:02 chair of the Federal Trade Commission.
0:16:04 We discuss ongoing antitrust cases,
0:16:06 how to measure consumer harm,
0:16:08 and her take on monopolies in big tech.
0:16:11 – We went through a 20-year period
0:16:14 where the Big Five technology companies,
0:16:17 Apple, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, and Amazon
0:16:20 collectively made over 800 acquisitions,
0:16:23 and not a single one of which was challenged at the time.
0:16:25 And now there are lawsuits
0:16:27 kind of retroactively identifying
0:16:30 that some of those were missed opportunities
0:16:32 and failing to stop those deals
0:16:34 had a really negative impact on the market.
0:16:37 – You can find that conversation and many others
0:16:39 exclusively on the Prophogy Markets podcast.
0:16:44 – Moving on, Harris made her first trip
0:16:45 to the US-Mexico border
0:16:47 since becoming her party’s presidential nominee.
0:16:49 This was only her second time there
0:16:51 as Vice President during her visit.
0:16:53 She criticized Trump’s immigration efforts.
0:16:55 Let’s have a listen.
0:16:59 – He made the challenges at the border worse.
0:17:01 And he is still,
0:17:06 and he is still fanning the flames of fear and division.
0:17:10 – The visit comes at a time when polls show voters trust
0:17:12 Trump and Republicans more in immigration.
0:17:13 And to no one’s surprise,
0:17:16 Trump called it a political stunt,
0:17:17 saying it’s too little, too late.
0:17:19 Jess, is there any truth to that?
0:17:21 Should Harris have made this move earlier,
0:17:24 or is this, you know, good campaigning?
0:17:26 I think it’s both.
0:17:29 I think that she has missed numerous opportunities
0:17:32 to be stronger on the border, to appear stronger.
0:17:35 And we can’t change the fact that we’re a visual species.
0:17:39 And seeing somebody at the crisis point
0:17:41 is different than hearing somebody talk about it
0:17:45 in an air conditioned room, in DC or Michigan,
0:17:48 wherever else you might be campaigning.
0:17:50 So I think there are missed opportunities.
0:17:52 I think it is also good policy for her to do it.
0:17:55 And we’re seeing like the latest Quinnipiac poll,
0:17:58 Trump’s advantage on immigration is down to eight points.
0:18:00 So you’re getting closer and closer
0:18:02 to a jump ball on the issue.
0:18:03 And I think that what she has been able to do
0:18:06 is not only emphasize the bipartisan border deal,
0:18:09 which Trump personally destroyed.
0:18:10 Right, he said, “I want a campaign on this.”
0:18:12 And Mitch McConnell said publicly that he did this.
0:18:15 James Langford met Romney.
0:18:19 But she is also offering people a bit of an offer.
0:18:21 And we say, it’s okay to like some of the things
0:18:23 that Trump is supportive of,
0:18:27 but you don’t need to pick Trump in order to get there.
0:18:29 So I will talk to you about more agents.
0:18:32 I will talk to you about more border wall,
0:18:34 something that she used to be very opposed to,
0:18:39 if it means that you will take this kind of more humane approach
0:18:41 to our immigration policy, like tough but humane,
0:18:44 I feel like is the tagline.
0:18:45 What did you think about it?
0:18:47 – I couldn’t decide if it was a good move or a bad move.
0:18:48 I don’t know how many people who believe
0:18:50 she’s been bad on the border
0:18:52 are gonna be swayed by her going down to the border,
0:18:54 or if she’s just bringing attention to an issue
0:18:58 that she’s fairly or unfairly considered weak on.
0:19:00 If I were her, I would just be hammering
0:19:02 around inflation at this point.
0:19:04 I think at the end of the day, I think most people
0:19:05 or a lot of people go into the voting booth
0:19:07 and says, “Who’s gonna put more money in my pockets?”
0:19:08 I’m fed up with government.
0:19:10 I just wanna know who’s gonna keep prices down
0:19:12 and get my salary up, what have you.
0:19:14 And I think his weakest, the soft tissue
0:19:19 or his Achilles heel is a combination of tariffs
0:19:21 and this weird anti-immigration policy
0:19:24 is just gonna absolutely bring inflation roaring back.
0:19:27 I would be doing that 25 hours a day.
0:19:31 And it’s, I don’t know, it just felt to me like,
0:19:32 I saw her down there and I thought
0:19:36 there’s gonna be a lot of eye rolls.
0:19:39 All right, Jess, let’s pivot to something,
0:19:42 I would say it’s less serious, but compelling.
0:19:45 We’re gonna talk about New York City Mayor Eric Adams.
0:19:47 He’s been indicted on federal corruption charges.
0:19:49 The feds are accusing him of taking bribes
0:19:51 from Turkish officials to push through permits
0:19:53 for their consulate, even though the building
0:19:54 didn’t pass inspection.
0:19:57 Plus, he allegedly scored massive discounts
0:20:00 on business class flights to Turkey.
0:20:03 I mean, it’s like, you know, when they say academics,
0:20:05 the reason we’re so vicious with each other
0:20:08 is because there’s so little to fight over.
0:20:09 It’s like, if you’re gonna go down,
0:20:11 you’re gonna go down over business class seats.
0:20:14 Anyways, I’m making light of something.
0:20:16 These are heavy charges ’cause they are in fact
0:20:18 corruption charges.
0:20:20 What is your read on the situation?
0:20:21 – Well, with the amount of buildup,
0:20:24 the number of phones that have been seized
0:20:27 from his top lieutenants, I think it’s up to six people,
0:20:29 six aides that they have their phones
0:20:32 and how long we’ve been talking about this,
0:20:37 I did expect bigger numbers, I guess,
0:20:39 for the scale of corruption.
0:20:41 But clearly the Southern District
0:20:44 wanted to air all of his dirty laundry
0:20:46 because they didn’t have to put everything
0:20:49 in the indictment, it was 56, 57 pages long,
0:20:52 including text messages, note to self,
0:20:54 obviously we’re gonna be doing crimes, don’t text,
0:20:56 like let’s do a crime now with a smiley face,
0:20:58 those kinds of things.
0:21:03 But they definitely wanted, they want him, right?
0:21:07 They think that he is somebody who has been doing this
0:21:09 for a very, very long time.
0:21:14 And I was thinking back to July when the fire chief
0:21:16 randomly resigned.
0:21:19 She’d only been in the job for a couple of years
0:21:22 and she just kind of popped up and was like, I’m out.
0:21:24 And I thought, well, that’s kind of weird, right?
0:21:26 ‘Cause the indictment story had been swirling
0:21:29 and they had been looking into people in Adams’ orbit,
0:21:30 but there was nothing about her.
0:21:33 And now, I mean, maybe it’s not a straight line,
0:21:37 I’m not sure between the Turkish building
0:21:40 that they wanted the fire assessment
0:21:41 to be changed on, right?
0:21:42 That wasn’t up to code.
0:21:46 And this woman saying, I’m tapping out.
0:21:49 But clearly something sinister was going on.
0:21:54 And I think as a New Yorker, what my main focus is,
0:21:57 whether he goes or not, and Huckle is not doing it
0:22:01 as of today, what does the next iteration
0:22:04 of the New York City mayoralty look like?
0:22:07 So if there’s a special election, Cuomo is eyeing that.
0:22:09 So then you’re gonna have someone that a lot of people
0:22:12 see as well as a gangster, but an effective one.
0:22:14 And is that the line now?
0:22:17 Like, we’re okay with corruption
0:22:18 if you’re good at your job,
0:22:20 but when you’re not so good at your job
0:22:23 and you’re corrupt, we’re not having it.
0:22:26 And I’m curious if you were paying attention to this angle.
0:22:29 Adams had spoken out against the Biden administration
0:22:30 for the migrant crisis.
0:22:33 And he gave a very stirring speech where he said,
0:22:35 like, help us out.
0:22:37 You can’t just do this.
0:22:39 You can’t saddle us with billions of dollars
0:22:40 in resources that we have to spend
0:22:43 without giving us the aid that we need
0:22:45 and also stopping this crisis.
0:22:46 It’s not just on the border.
0:22:48 It’s all across the country.
0:22:50 And do you think that that was part of this?
0:22:53 ‘Cause a lot of people do think they’re linked.
0:22:54 – The worst call you can get in the world,
0:22:56 other than obviously something regarding
0:22:57 the health of loved ones,
0:22:59 I think would be from the person
0:23:01 who runs the Southern District.
0:23:05 They’re just so smart and so fucking scary
0:23:07 and so aggressive.
0:23:09 And I think that part of what they do is,
0:23:11 one of the reasons you prosecute people
0:23:14 is obviously justice, that they’ll uphold the law.
0:23:15 But also, I think the Southern District
0:23:17 is really big on sending messages
0:23:19 to people in the finance industry.
0:23:22 They go after, they pick a target
0:23:25 and they’re unafraid, they’re unrelenting.
0:23:28 It’s just a call you don’t wanna get.
0:23:30 But when I read through it,
0:23:33 I quite frankly thought it was pretty underwhelming.
0:23:35 And it takes me to a couple of places.
0:23:40 One, his mistake, taking money from a group
0:23:43 and then using that to influence government actions
0:23:47 that favor them is kinda how the US government works.
0:23:48 For a small amount of money,
0:23:50 you give to a senator, to a representative,
0:23:53 you get access and if you need help
0:23:57 getting something approved, they’re there for you.
0:23:59 It’s always struck me with just a little bit of money
0:24:02 in Washington, how much access you can get.
0:24:04 – Even with foreign influence though,
0:24:06 I feel like that is a line in the hand with this.
0:24:09 – You stole my thunder, you stole my thunder.
0:24:10 – I give it back.
0:24:13 – The problem here is you’re not allowed to do it
0:24:15 from foreign nationals.
0:24:17 That is a bright red line,
0:24:19 especially a place like Turkey
0:24:21 where a lot of people would argue that
0:24:24 they’re not an ally of the US,
0:24:26 even though they weren’t, you wasn’t spying for them
0:24:28 or it wasn’t influencing,
0:24:32 this was fire safety at their consulate.
0:24:35 But nonetheless, you are not supposed to take money
0:24:39 from a foreign nation, much less a foreign nation
0:24:41 that we’re on sort of strange terms with.
0:24:43 So that’s where, quite frankly,
0:24:44 that’s where he really fucked up.
0:24:47 Where it takes me though,
0:24:51 is that this is a guy who grew up son of a single mother.
0:24:54 Never, you know, police chief probably made a good living
0:24:56 but living in Brooklyn probably never had,
0:24:58 you know, a ton of money.
0:25:01 And I think it’s very easy for these officials
0:25:03 to be seduced and start to rationalize.
0:25:07 I’m not excusing it, but I can see how this happens.
0:25:08 Oh, it’s a plane fare.
0:25:11 I get to stay at a nice hotel.
0:25:13 I’m not gonna do anything that damages America, the city,
0:25:16 but oh my God, fire safety, fuck yeah, just get it done,
0:25:18 right, they’re gonna create jobs or whatever,
0:25:20 we wanna be welcoming.
0:25:23 I can see how in his mind, he rationalized this.
0:25:25 And I’m not entirely sure.
0:25:26 When I read about this,
0:25:29 corruption charges Southern District,
0:25:31 I thought it was gonna be a lot worse.
0:25:33 And where I go though,
0:25:36 is that I think we should adopt Singapore’s model.
0:25:38 And that is, I think we should pay our elected officials
0:25:40 a million to $2 million a year
0:25:42 and have much tighter standards.
0:25:45 And just say, look, because the bottom line is,
0:25:46 they don’t make a lot of money.
0:25:50 So I believe the mayor makes around $258,000 a year.
0:25:52 Do you think we should increase the compensation
0:25:53 for our elected representatives?
0:25:55 I’m worried, let me preface this by saying,
0:25:57 I’m worried that the mayor of New York and other places
0:26:01 is basically gonna be these freakishly anomalous,
0:26:03 remarkable people focused on public service
0:26:05 and millionaires and billionaires.
0:26:07 And there’ll be no one in the middle.
0:26:10 – Yeah, I think that this is something that you would get,
0:26:12 you know, one of those 90% approvals for.
0:26:15 And the people who often say that elected officials
0:26:17 are not making enough have their own acts to grind.
0:26:19 And it’s not really about understanding
0:26:22 what the job entails and how important it is.
0:26:26 And I’m always struck by the fact that tons of members
0:26:28 of Congress in DC, they have roommates,
0:26:30 they share apartments.
0:26:32 You know, this is one of the most important jobs
0:26:33 in the country.
0:26:35 And I’m not saying it isn’t fun to have a roomy,
0:26:40 but you should be able to afford your own studio apartment
0:26:44 near Capitol Hill and also be able to afford to get home
0:26:46 to do your constituent work.
0:26:47 And you’re totally right.
0:26:49 Like Dan Goldman is my congressman.
0:26:52 He’s amazing, speaking of, you know, Southern District
0:26:56 prowess, but he’s also the heir to Levi’s fortune, right?
0:26:59 He can afford to be doing this,
0:27:03 whereas a lot of fantastic people can’t
0:27:05 or simply don’t want to because it’s not gonna have
0:27:08 the same kind of remunerative benefits for them, you know,
0:27:10 then going to work at a McKinsey.
0:27:11 – What do you think?
0:27:13 Do you think it’s gonna have to resign over this?
0:27:17 – I’m clear, but he’s definitely not out of the woods on it.
0:27:22 I think a lot will matter what Hockel signals about it.
0:27:24 I mean, she’s the only one who can remove him,
0:27:28 but certainly if she kind of Nancy Pelosi’s him, you know.
0:27:31 – Wouldn’t she just say, wouldn’t she just punt on it
0:27:34 and go let the voters decide in two and a half years
0:27:35 whenever it is, two years?
0:27:37 – Well, the primary thing goes in June.
0:27:39 – Oh, it’s coming up that quickly.
0:27:40 Oh, why would she do that?
0:27:45 – Well, it might be because there’s a corruption level
0:27:47 and we haven’t seen everything that’s to come.
0:27:49 I mean, they see someone else’s phones
0:27:51 even since this came down, but I don’t know,
0:27:53 Kathy Hockel also probably has a vested interest
0:27:57 in keeping Andrew Cuomo away from the mayoral race
0:28:01 and he’s kind of chomping at the bit to get back in there.
0:28:02 So.
0:28:03 – You stole my thunder again.
0:28:05 My prediction was Andrew Cuomo.
0:28:07 So what do you think his prospects would be
0:28:10 for winning mayoral race if for whatever reason,
0:28:13 Mayor Adams decides not to run again in 2025?
0:28:14 – I think they’d be pretty good.
0:28:18 I think that there are people who would feel
0:28:21 like they wanna choose competency
0:28:25 and that if it comes with a side of corruption
0:28:27 and a little bit of kissing
0:28:31 when you didn’t want it, Italian style as he put it,
0:28:34 like what was this defense, I’m just Italian,
0:28:36 that they might be able to look past that
0:28:38 because I think the field will be crowded
0:28:41 with a lot of very progressive people,
0:28:43 like the Scott Stringers of the world.
0:28:47 And I don’t know if that’s where New Yorkers wanna go.
0:28:51 If my Bloomberg is the gold standard for a majority.
0:28:52 I’m not saying there weren’t problems
0:28:53 with the Bloomberg administration
0:28:56 or there aren’t some lefties who didn’t really like him,
0:29:00 but in general, the city was cleaner, it was safer,
0:29:01 it was better run.
0:29:07 And I think that if Cuomo can try to grab that mantle back
0:29:10 that he would have a very viable shot.
0:29:12 And there are also a contingent of people
0:29:15 who just don’t think that he should have had
0:29:19 to leave Albany, that this was kind of trumped up
0:29:22 because of what happened with the nursing home deaths,
0:29:25 which is regrettable, and I wish that he would apologize,
0:29:26 just accept some responsibility.
0:29:29 And people wouldn’t even personally blame him,
0:29:31 say like you killed my grandpa,
0:29:34 but just to say there’s a chain of accountability
0:29:35 for these decisions.
0:29:38 And some of these decisions were not correct.
0:29:40 And I think that he would be in much better position.
0:29:42 (gentle music)
0:29:43 We’ll be right back to hear
0:29:46 from former Maryland governor, Larry Hogan.
0:29:46 Stay with us.
0:29:58 Welcome back, we’re joined by former Maryland governor,
0:30:01 Larry Hogan, a politician who has never been afraid
0:30:04 to buck the party line from leading Maryland
0:30:06 through two terms with bipartisan support
0:30:09 to his current bid for the U.S. Senate.
0:30:11 Hogan has shown a knack
0:30:13 for connecting with voters across the spectrum.
0:30:16 Governor Hogan, welcome to the show.
0:30:17 – Well, thank you very much.
0:30:19 Thanks for having me.
0:30:21 – We’re super excited to have you.
0:30:22 Thank you for joining.
0:30:25 And I paid particular interest to your campaign
0:30:29 as someone who is also not a fan of Donald Trump.
0:30:31 You’ve been a vocal critic and have distanced yourself
0:30:33 from much of the national GOP platform,
0:30:35 including Project 2025.
0:30:37 Just yesterday, you made some news
0:30:39 saying that you won’t be voting for Trump.
0:30:42 You haven’t in the past, but talking about it again.
0:30:44 So how do you see the future of the Republican party
0:30:46 and what role do you think moderates like yourself
0:30:48 are going to be playing in it?
0:30:49 – What a great question.
0:30:53 Yeah, I think I’ve been probably over the last eight years
0:30:57 or so one of the leading outspoken critics
0:30:59 about the direction of the party
0:31:01 and about Donald Trump in particular.
0:31:03 I’ve never been afraid to stand up.
0:31:05 I really didn’t break much news yesterday
0:31:07 because I’ve said over and over and over again.
0:31:10 That’s important, but it’s like every,
0:31:12 once a month, there’s a whole bunch of headlines
0:31:14 that say, “Hogan’s not gonna vote for Trump,”
0:31:16 which is what I’ve said for eight years,
0:31:21 but it’s, look, I’m concerned about the direction
0:31:23 of both parties, quite frankly,
0:31:26 but the Republican party moving off in this direction
0:31:27 of more of a MAGA party.
0:31:31 I’m kind of a traditional, I would say Reagan Republican.
0:31:35 I say I come from the Republican wing of the Republican party
0:31:36 and I want to see us get back
0:31:39 to a more hopeful vision for America
0:31:43 and a party that can appeal broadly to more people
0:31:46 and I want to see us focused on issues and solving problems.
0:31:49 And I know that some people say,
0:31:53 “Well, it seems as if you should just give up on that.”
0:31:55 And I’m just a guy that doesn’t like to give up
0:31:57 and I’ve been successful at winning
0:32:00 and arguably one of the bluest states in America
0:32:02 by convincing independents and Democrats
0:32:04 to cross over and vote for me
0:32:08 because I think most people really just want to see folks
0:32:10 work together and solve problems.
0:32:12 They want to see people reach across the aisle
0:32:15 in a bipartisan way and find common ground
0:32:16 for the common good.
0:32:18 And I’m not sure that we’re seeing a lot of that,
0:32:19 actually out of both parties.
0:32:22 We see a lot of finger pointing and name calling
0:32:26 and people more interested in just saying something outrageous
0:32:31 on cable news or online, in social media.
0:32:36 And I don’t come from the performative art school of politics.
0:32:39 I just want to try to see if we can find a way
0:32:40 to come up with solutions.
0:32:44 – It does feel as if there used to be
0:32:48 a lot of sort of Reagan Republicans in the Senate
0:32:50 and it seems one by one are moderates
0:32:52 who took pride in reaching across the aisle
0:32:55 and more pragmatists and ideologues.
0:32:56 And it feels as if the Republican party
0:32:58 said, “You’re not welcome here.”
0:32:59 It just feels like there’s fewer and fewer.
0:33:02 And I think it’s true on the Democratic side as well.
0:33:04 One, would you agree that it just feels like
0:33:08 there’s no place for moderates to hang their hats anymore?
0:33:11 And if you agree with that, why do you think that’s happened?
0:33:14 – Well, I agree that it’s happening in both parties.
0:33:18 I mean, if you just look at the folks that have left
0:33:20 and let’s focus on the Senate right now,
0:33:23 you have Kirsten Sinema and Joe Manchin
0:33:27 and Mitt Romney all leaving, and we’re,
0:33:30 there’s not a lot of folks kind of in that center,
0:33:33 problem solver, caucus kind of the folks
0:33:35 that were trying to work together across the aisle.
0:33:39 I was co-chairman of No Labels with Joe Lieberman
0:33:42 for three and a half years and our whole focus was on,
0:33:45 how do we find ways to govern from the middle
0:33:46 and get people to talk to one another?
0:33:51 And those three were a big part of the group in the Senate
0:33:54 that was trying to focus on that and now they’re gone.
0:33:59 And so I feel like there’s a huge void in the Senate
0:34:01 for that type of leadership.
0:34:03 And that’s one of the reasons why I stepped up to run.
0:34:07 I mean, I really didn’t need a job
0:34:08 and I wasn’t looking for a title,
0:34:11 but I’m concerned about the direction of the country
0:34:13 and I’m concerned that the Congress continues
0:34:17 to just become more divisive and more dysfunctional.
0:34:22 But whether there’s, I think there’s a huge demand
0:34:24 among the public and I’ve proven that
0:34:27 because I left office last January,
0:34:30 after eight years in a deep blue state
0:34:32 after getting things done over and over and over again
0:34:37 with 70% legislature cutting taxes
0:34:39 and cutting the cost of healthcare
0:34:41 and passing criminal justice reform
0:34:43 with Democrats and Republicans together.
0:34:47 I left office with a 77% job approval
0:34:50 and over 70 with every demographic, 79 with Democrats
0:34:54 and 81 with black voters and young voters and old voters.
0:34:57 So there’s a demand, people do like it
0:35:01 when you talk about common sense solutions
0:35:03 and they do like it when you work across the aisle
0:35:05 and when you have a different tone
0:35:09 and you’re willing to just disagree on the issues
0:35:11 without demeaning the other side.
0:35:13 I think it’s what they desperately want.
0:35:16 However, you’re right, that’s not what we have.
0:35:21 And so it’s, I think the elected leaders
0:35:25 do not really represent where most of the voters are.
0:35:28 40% of the people in America are now independent.
0:35:31 They’re far more than there are Democrats or Republicans
0:35:33 and it’s because they’re getting turned off
0:35:38 by the divisive rhetoric and by the more extreme positions
0:35:42 and they just want us to come together and fix things.
0:35:43 – Yeah, I wanna pick up on that.
0:35:45 So you’re in a competitive race.
0:35:47 I think the real clear politics average is six, seven points.
0:35:51 Lead for Angela also Brooks, who you’re running against.
0:35:54 We know Maryland is a deep blue state.
0:35:57 What issues are you finding are resonating
0:35:58 with your voters most?
0:36:01 And what do you say to people who have anxiety
0:36:04 about electing you who will be part
0:36:06 of the Republican infrastructure?
0:36:08 So let’s say Donald Trump does win
0:36:11 or even if he doesn’t win and majority of the party
0:36:14 has been overtaken kind of by the MAGA wing of things.
0:36:16 How will you serve as a backstop
0:36:19 against some of their more dangerous positions?
0:36:20 – Well, that’s exactly what I hope to do.
0:36:23 And I do have to convince some voters of that
0:36:26 because my opponent’s campaign is basically
0:36:28 just talking about red versus blue.
0:36:30 Like you have to vote Democrat
0:36:35 because I’m going to be somehow empowering the MAGA agenda
0:36:37 when I’ve been one of the leading voices against it.
0:36:40 And I think I can be that key voice in the middle
0:36:42 that’s willing to stand up.
0:36:45 Joe Manchin didn’t empower the far left
0:36:46 of the Democratic Party.
0:36:48 He stopped the crazy things from happening
0:36:52 and worked with Republicans to get things done.
0:36:56 I think, look at John McCain when John McCain called me
0:36:58 before he walked out on the Senate floor
0:37:01 to give the thumbs down on repealing Obamacare
0:37:03 ’cause he and I shared the same position
0:37:06 and I wanted to continue to cover the people in Maryland.
0:37:09 Sometimes one person can make a difference.
0:37:12 And I believe that I have the ability to do that.
0:37:14 I mean, I’m not naive enough to think I can fix everything
0:37:18 but I’m not going there to empower one party or another.
0:37:20 I’m going there to represent all the people of Maryland
0:37:23 and I’m gonna do whatever I think is best for the country.
0:37:26 And I think I’ve proven over and over and over again
0:37:29 that I’m willing to stand up to my party
0:37:31 and to the other party when I think they’re wrong.
0:37:33 I’ve stood up to the former president,
0:37:35 to the current president and I’m not gonna be afraid
0:37:38 to stand up to the next president, whoever that is.
0:37:41 I’ll work with them when I agree with them on an issue
0:37:43 and I’m gonna stand up and stop them when I don’t.
0:37:46 And so the people of Maryland know me,
0:37:49 that there are some, my opponent is saying,
0:37:50 even if you like Larry Hogan
0:37:53 and even if you voted for him twice for governor,
0:37:55 that’s 79% of Democrats that approved of the job
0:37:57 that I’m doing, I’m not winning all of them
0:37:59 because some of them are saying, we really like them.
0:38:01 We wish he was still governor
0:38:03 or we wish he had run for president
0:38:03 but we don’t wanna,
0:38:06 and we’re afraid of all those other Republicans in the Senate
0:38:09 and that’s the campaign we’re having to overcome right now.
0:38:12 And there are Democrats who say,
0:38:14 I wish I could vote for you.
0:38:17 Or they say, convince me that you’re gonna continue
0:38:20 to be the same kind of strong independent leader
0:38:21 that you’ll continue to stand up.
0:38:23 And so when I talk to them one-on-one,
0:38:24 I usually win them over,
0:38:27 but it’s hard to do that in a 30-second commercial
0:38:29 when you’re trying to reach millions of people.
0:38:30 – You sort of read my mind, Governor,
0:38:33 you’re literally out of central casting
0:38:38 for who moderates want more of NDC.
0:38:40 – I just think there’s such a huge base of people
0:38:41 who want somebody,
0:38:43 even if they don’t agree with them on every issue,
0:38:46 they say, this is a reasonable person
0:38:49 that isn’t trying to say inflammatory things
0:38:50 and make personal attacks
0:38:54 that get a ton of viral distribution on TikTok
0:38:57 that then raises a bunch of small dollar money,
0:38:58 never actually pass any laws
0:39:01 ’cause no one wants to deal with them
0:39:02 and wash, rinse and repeat.
0:39:05 It feels like there’s just so much of that in DC
0:39:08 and that we need this solvent called moderates.
0:39:10 At the same time,
0:39:14 I think that there’s probably some real fear
0:39:16 on the Democratic side,
0:39:18 if you say your center left,
0:39:22 that with SCOTUS going so far right
0:39:24 and with the Senate playing such an important role
0:39:26 around approving justices,
0:39:28 specifically I think around issues
0:39:30 including bodily autonomy,
0:39:34 that they’re gonna think, yeah, I really like this guy,
0:39:39 but I can’t risk the Supreme Court going further right
0:39:42 and even less representing people in the middle,
0:39:44 including moderate Republicans.
0:39:47 What would you say to give some of those people comfort?
0:39:49 – Well, yeah, I think people are concerned
0:39:51 about politicizing the court
0:39:54 and most people don’t want it to be politicized
0:39:56 to the right or to the left.
0:39:58 And it seems as if that’s the way we’ve been doing it.
0:39:59 Whoever has the power,
0:40:04 we’re trying to push through the most conservative judge
0:40:05 or the most progressive judge.
0:40:09 And look, I probably have more experience with judges
0:40:11 than most of the people or all the people in the Senate.
0:40:14 I appointed more judges in Maryland
0:40:17 than any governor in history, over 190 judges.
0:40:20 I appointed six out of the seven members
0:40:23 of our Supreme Court in Maryland.
0:40:27 It was the most diverse, most bipartisan judicial selections
0:40:30 in ever in history in our state.
0:40:34 I had all of my Supreme Court justices unanimously confirmed
0:40:37 by all the Republicans and all the Democrats in our Senate.
0:40:39 And it seems as if in Washington now,
0:40:43 we can’t even get one person to cross over,
0:40:46 to cross over and say, this is a qualified person.
0:40:48 I tried to make the best decisions
0:40:50 about did people have the right judicial temperament?
0:40:52 Did they have the right experience?
0:40:54 Were they gonna follow the letter of the law
0:40:56 as opposed to saying we have to have someone
0:40:58 that’ll take this position or that position.
0:41:01 They have to stand up for the left or the right.
0:41:03 I think it’s gotten out of control.
0:41:06 And I think, look, I think we need to make sure
0:41:08 that we have good judges appointed,
0:41:10 whether it’s Kamala Harris is the president
0:41:11 and she appoints a judge that I believe
0:41:13 is a qualified and decent judge.
0:41:15 I’m gonna vote for that judge.
0:41:18 If Donald Trump happens to get elected,
0:41:20 we’ll hope he appoints some decent judges
0:41:21 that I can support there too.
0:41:25 But I just don’t think we ought to continue
0:41:28 to try to jam through or change the rules
0:41:30 or have it swing back and forth every two years
0:41:33 or every four years, depending on who takes over
0:41:36 the House or the Senate or who’s in the White House.
0:41:38 We’re hopelessly divided right now.
0:41:40 And we need, it’s the same thing
0:41:42 on everything else we’re talking about.
0:41:47 We need common sense, compromise in the middle.
0:41:50 Not how do we jam through things on an extreme basis
0:41:51 to the left or the right?
0:41:53 And we need bipartisan buy-in.
0:41:55 We should have judges, we should have people
0:41:58 that senators on both sides of the aisle say,
0:42:01 this person’s obviously qualified to be on the bench.
0:42:03 – So just to double click on that,
0:42:05 based on your success and experience
0:42:07 appointing judges and betting judges,
0:42:09 the three most recent appointments,
0:42:11 Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, Barrett,
0:42:12 do you think the three of them,
0:42:14 had you been in the Senate at that time,
0:42:17 would you have advocated for their approval
0:42:19 and appointment to the Supreme Court?
0:42:21 – Well, I don’t wanna go back and look at past history
0:42:22 about what would have happened.
0:42:25 But I know that I spoke up when I thought,
0:42:27 against Mitch McConnell,
0:42:29 when I thought he was trying to jam through appointments
0:42:31 right before the election.
0:42:34 And I also stood up on Justice Kavanaugh
0:42:38 and said, we ought to have a full hearing of the facts of.
0:42:42 So I wasn’t there in the Senate, didn’t see all of it,
0:42:43 wasn’t part of all the hearings
0:42:45 and didn’t have to be in a position to make those decisions.
0:42:48 But in both cases, I stood up and said,
0:42:49 I stood up to my party.
0:42:51 I’ve stood up to my party when it’s hard.
0:42:54 And I’ll continue to do that.
0:42:57 – I guess Scott led with, people know you, right?
0:42:59 You’ve been around, I’ll figure a long time.
0:43:03 What is something that you wanna communicate
0:43:05 to your potential voters
0:43:06 that you don’t think they know about you
0:43:11 or how you would govern if you were able to win the seat?
0:43:14 – Well, I think that what I’d like to communicate is,
0:43:15 I’m running for the right reasons.
0:43:17 I only stepped up
0:43:19 because I’m very concerned about the country.
0:43:22 I’m concerned about making sure I get my party back on track
0:43:25 that we have a healthy and competitive two-party system.
0:43:26 And I want them to know
0:43:29 that I’m going to be the exact kind of leader
0:43:31 that I was for eight years as governor.
0:43:34 And I think we’ve developed a better track record
0:43:36 than almost anyone in America
0:43:39 for centrist common sense by partisan governing,
0:43:41 by for reaching across the aisle
0:43:44 and that I’m going to be the exact,
0:43:47 it’s a different job that Senator is.
0:43:50 And I know I’ve got to work with 99 other people,
0:43:52 but I’m going to continue to stand up
0:43:53 for whatever I think is right
0:43:55 for the people of my state and for the country.
0:43:58 And I’m not going to be towing the line
0:44:01 or being a rubber stamp for one party or another.
0:44:04 – Are you gonna vote for Kamala?
0:44:05 – No, I’ve said I wasn’t,
0:44:07 neither one of them has really earned my vote,
0:44:10 but I certainly am very pleased
0:44:15 that we have a lot of Harris Hogan split ticket folks
0:44:16 across the state of Maryland.
0:44:17 We currently have about 30% of them.
0:44:22 And interestingly, you’ll see sometimes a Harris
0:44:24 and Hogan yard sign in front of somebody’s house.
0:44:28 So I have to try to earn the support of people
0:44:30 on both sides of the aisle from the right and the left.
0:44:33 And that’s what I’ve always been able to do.
0:44:36 – Yeah, we should point out that polling shows
0:44:38 that a significant percentage of Harris voters
0:44:40 are backing you for the Senate.
0:44:44 And I think that speaks to your reputation as a moderate.
0:44:45 – Well, I need a few more of them.
0:44:46 So we’re still working hard.
0:44:47 – We need more of them?
0:44:50 – Over the next several weeks.
0:44:52 – My sense is that’s why you’re here.
0:44:55 So look, you’ve been in this game a while.
0:44:58 You obviously have really strong political instincts.
0:45:01 Handicap, we’ve been talking about the debate tonight,
0:45:02 the state of the election.
0:45:04 It feels like the polls are almost meaningless noise
0:45:05 at this point.
0:45:07 Any observations or insight you have about
0:45:10 the current state of the race or anything that surprised you
0:45:11 or you think the media is not covering?
0:45:14 – I’m just hoping on the vice presidential debate
0:45:18 that we’ll finally hear some honest discussion of the issues.
0:45:20 I think that’s been lacking in the campaign,
0:45:22 quite frankly, from the presidential candidates
0:45:25 and from the vice presidential candidates.
0:45:28 And I’m hoping it’s not just a food fight
0:45:31 and talking about crazy things,
0:45:33 but we’ll actually hear what each person has to say
0:45:35 about what their positions are.
0:45:38 On the race, I think it’s very close.
0:45:42 Just, I’m not a pundit or a political expert,
0:45:45 but I think the presidential race
0:45:47 is gonna go down to the wire.
0:45:51 And I think that people are really gonna have to get out there
0:45:54 and make their decision and I have no idea
0:45:55 what’s gonna happen in November.
0:45:58 I’m hoping that we’re gonna be able to get in there
0:46:00 and try to make a difference in the Senate.
0:46:04 And I’ll work with whoever is elected president.
0:46:06 I was governor through three presidents
0:46:08 and I worked with President Obama,
0:46:10 with the Trump administration for four years
0:46:11 and then with President Biden.
0:46:14 And whether it’s Donald Trump or Kamala Harris,
0:46:16 I’ll try to work with them when I agree
0:46:18 and help them get things done.
0:46:21 And when I disagree, I don’t think there’s any,
0:46:24 and nobody doubts that I’ll stand up and push back
0:46:28 and do what I think is right.
0:46:30 – Governor, you’re part of a rare species
0:46:31 we hardly see anymore
0:46:34 and we would like to see repopulate the earth.
0:46:36 We really appreciate.
0:46:38 – Well, I thought we were extinct,
0:46:41 but there’s one left, I guess, I’m a unicorn,
0:46:43 but I’m gonna try to find some more people
0:46:44 to come hang out with me.
0:46:45 And I really do believe
0:46:48 that sometimes one person can make a difference.
0:46:51 And there are at least a handful on both sides of the aisle
0:46:52 that kind of agree with me.
0:46:55 Maybe they’re not always speaking out quite as much,
0:46:59 but I’m hoping I can get a centrist caucus
0:47:01 in the United States Senate that’s willing to work together.
0:47:04 – Great, thanks, governor, and stay safe on the trail.
0:47:10 All right, last thing, prediction on tonight.
0:47:13 – Everybody will get to say that their guy won
0:47:17 and that it matters more for the democratic side,
0:47:19 that we need this more for walls
0:47:20 than we do necessarily for vans
0:47:25 who will continue to be reviled to some degree.
0:47:27 Yup.
0:47:30 – I’m gonna punt and just read funny jokes about Tim Walls.
0:47:32 My real concern with Governor Tim Walls
0:47:33 is that he seems like the kind of guy
0:47:35 if you leave your car unlocked in the summer,
0:47:38 he’s going to leave you six zucchini’s on your front seat.
0:47:40 That was pretty good.
0:47:42 Walls has the vibes of a man who makes short helpful videos
0:47:45 on how to fix garbage disposals in his spare time,
0:47:47 like that one.
0:47:49 Last one, Tim Walls is the kind of guy
0:47:51 who tells you to watch for deer
0:47:54 and call us when you get home before you depart his house.
0:47:55 Like that one, that’s my favorite.
0:47:57 – I love that guy.
0:47:59 Like the guy who’s like cares if you got home.
0:48:01 – One more, Tim Walls 1000% says,
0:48:05 “What’s the damage when the waiter hands him the check?”
0:48:06 I like that one too.
0:48:07 – Yeah.
0:48:08 – Okay, good stuff.
0:48:09 – Very cute.
0:48:10 – That’s all for this episode.
0:48:12 Thank you for listening to Raging Moderates,
0:48:15 our producers are Caroline Shagren and David Toledo,
0:48:17 our technical producers, Drew Burroughs.
0:48:18 You can find Raging Moderates
0:48:21 on the Prop G pod every Tuesday.
0:48:22 Please subscribe.
0:48:23 Right now we’re in the Prop G feed,
0:48:25 but soon we’re gonna be going to our own feed.
0:48:28 So please subscribe and download.
0:48:31 (upbeat music)
0:48:33 (upbeat music)
0:48:36 (upbeat music)
0:48:39 (upbeat music)
Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov preview the much-anticipated VP debate between J.D. Vance and Tim Walz. They also break down Kamala Harris’s recent trip to the U.S.-Mexico border and the federal indictment of NYC Mayor Eric Adams over bribery allegations. Then, former Maryland Governor Larry Hogan joins the show for a candid conversation on the Republican Party’s direction, his bipartisan legacy, and how moderates can shape the future of governance.
Follow Jessica Tarlov, @JessicaTarlov.
Follow Prof G, @profgalloway.
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