AI transcript
0:00:12 what if building an ai agent were as simple as texting a friend this week on the next wave i sit
0:00:17 down with flo crevello founder and ceo of lindy the ai agent company everyone in silicon valley
0:00:23 is watching after a year in the lab lindy is unveiling lindy 3.0 and flow is ready to show
0:00:29 us why it could change how we work we demo agents that run your crm qa your product book groceries
0:00:35 block spammers and scout competitors all through natural language you’ll watch an agent take over
0:00:41 a browser click and scroll like a human and finish tasks in minutes imagine if every employee at your
0:00:48 company had an army of ai interns that’s actually possible today before we get started now we spend
0:00:52 a lot of time working on these episodes and getting on the best guests possible to help make sure that
0:00:57 you’re prepared for the age of ai but most of you who listen aren’t subscribed so if you can please
0:01:03 take a moment and subscribe it would mean a lot to me and the team now let’s dive in with flo crevello
0:01:11 cutting your sales cycle in half sounds pretty impossible but that’s exactly what sandler
0:01:17 training did with hubspot they used breeze hubspot’s ai tools to tailor every customer interaction without
0:01:23 losing their personal touch and the results were pretty incredible click-through rates jumped 25 percent
0:01:28 and qualified leads quadrupled and people spent three times longer on their landing pages
0:01:32 go to hubspot.com to see how breeze can help your business grow
0:01:37 hey flo thanks for coming on
0:01:40 hey nason yeah thanks for having me i was thinking about earlier today i was like i think you’re like
0:01:44 the third returning guest that’s ever been back on the next wave you know other ones are like greg
0:01:48 eisenberg and logan kilpatrick at google so you’re in great company okay
0:01:52 i am in really good company yeah it’s an honor to be here yeah so yesterday you showed me
0:01:58 two demos of new things that you’re building at lindy which i was just blown away by it i’m like okay
0:02:02 this is perfect for our audience and everyone’s gonna get a ton of value out of both of these
0:02:05 i don’t know if you’re calling them features or the new products but maybe you can just kind of explain
0:02:07 and then we can just jump right in
0:02:10 yeah it’s a revamp of the app really we’ve been working on it for like
0:02:16 six or nine months at this point like the entire team we call it like lindy 3.0 so it’s basically an
0:02:21 entire rewrite of the app the long-term vision of what we want to do is build an ai employee
0:02:29 and we are driving towards maximal capability and maximal ease of use ease of use is like we want it
0:02:34 to be as easy as like you just talk to it and you tell it what you want and just does it for you
0:02:39 right and the capability is like it should be able to do anything that anyone can do on a computer
0:02:44 yeah today like in order to build agents like you either have to code or like even like no code tools
0:02:48 like lindy it’s sort of a pain in the ass it’s a no code tool but you have to like drag and drop like
0:02:53 you need to have like a technical mindset and the capabilities like we’ve always been bottlenecked by
0:02:58 integrations like we made like a big announcement like six months ago we released like six thousand
0:03:01 integrations at once and we were like that’s it like we will never need integrations again
0:03:05 and it turns out we are always blocked by integrations and that’s why entropic is doing
0:03:10 mcp right it’s like ah like we’re gonna build this like universal protocol but it’s never going to be
0:03:16 enough and so uh what we’re releasing with 3.0 is we are releasing an agent builder so you can just
0:03:21 talk to it it’s just a prompt and you have a back and forth conversation and just builds the agent for
0:03:26 you it’s actually really cool because the agent builder is built with lindy so it’s like we don’t even
0:03:30 have an admin tool to build the agent builder we just use lindy ourselves and that’s the lindy
0:03:35 yeah and then we have computer use so the agent builder takes care of the usability ease of use
0:03:40 part of the house and computer use takes care of the capability side of the house so it’s like the
0:03:46 final integration basically like you can just see your computer and use it right and it works it’s
0:03:51 shocking it works like better than without that’s crazy so you just talk to lindy and like if i want
0:03:56 to agent for whatever check in my email or check in websites or whatever i want to do you just talk to
0:03:59 it creates the first version or something then you probably can go in there and tweak it i would
0:04:07 assume and things like that yeah no 100 that’s what it is it’s like i have created an agent to
0:04:12 manage my personal crm and it’s literally just like help me manage my personal crm and it’s like okay i’m
0:04:16 going to create an agent this is what it does if you want to add to your crm if you want to retrieve
0:04:21 from your crm and let me just create the agent for you and that’s what it created like first shot
0:04:26 wow right yeah and this is why i want to show video i want to be real with people like yeah people
0:04:30 who have like experience with like lovable or these like vibe coding applications they know that like
0:04:35 this actually takes like one or two minutes so it like it makes for like a pretty boring demo because
0:04:40 like we’re just gonna like see it for like a minute looking at it right but it creates this agent and
0:04:44 then i can be like okay who are ai founders i know and i pre-populated like this like fake crm like
0:04:49 a bunch of like fake names but it’s like hey these are the people you know or i can go like hey
0:04:54 add john do to my crm he’s the founder of acme corp and it has a role to my google sheets so right
0:04:58 now is this mainly with google sheets like in theory could you guys add you know connections
0:05:03 to hubspot or other crms in the future or how does that work we do have connections to hubspot it’s
0:05:08 actually like the most used crm on the platform oh great there no 100 so you can just use any
0:05:12 connection that you want like that’s what like the 6 000 connectors that we built are something to be
0:05:16 useful for and uh when are you guys launching this uh on monday hopefully i think by the time
0:05:21 this ails this should be live yeah awesome have you guys had people testing this like other people
0:05:26 yet but outside of lindy and like what are the main use cases that people are using it for oh yeah
0:05:31 we’ve been in private beta for like weeks at this point like maybe even months the main use cases are
0:05:36 i think like crm management is a really really big one like go-to-market applications are like a
0:05:42 really big one so it’s like sdr workflows account executive workflows like marketing and like content
0:05:46 production workflow like i can give you an example this is the new design of the app and i’m in love
0:05:50 with it i think it looks gorgeous but i can give you a super simple example like find me 10 software
0:05:59 engineers working at zapier and right here it’s like i found 10 software engineers i just like a
0:06:04 previous task but like i did the same it’s like boom these are the names and i can just click and these
0:06:10 are like actual people who work at zapier oh that’s amazing so like could it go the next step and help you
0:06:14 contact those people or could it not do that it will be able to do that right now it cannot connect
0:06:20 to your personal accounts just yet so like this is like an unauthenticated action like the prospecting
0:06:25 action but like the gmail action is going to be authenticated and we’re going to release that in a
0:06:30 couple of weeks awesome yeah so with a computer use could it just like go use your computer eventually
0:06:34 and use linkedin and like and how is linkedin ever going to deal with stuff like that it seems like
0:06:38 at some point that’s going to be crazy that is another really big use case so i can go like
0:06:46 uh reach out to uh i can go flocrivillo yeah who works at lindy on linkedin and it is going to
0:06:50 reach out i actually think for this one we also have an action and not a hundred percent sure
0:06:58 oh it’s going to use computer use let’s see right here so it has found the linkedin and now it is
0:07:03 starting a computer and so again like this is an example of of computer use like while it’s booting i can
0:07:09 like show this other demo it’s getting very meta because now we’re using lindy as a qa engineer
0:07:14 for lindy right so we have created this agent that like you can see it’s super simple it’s like okay
0:07:19 every hour you start a computer you log into lindy we’ve given it credentials you create an agent you
0:07:24 test the agent and then if it failed you send a message to the on call channel on slack and right
0:07:30 here like this is all completely automated like this is the agent that logs in and does the credential
0:07:34 create an agent and end-to-end like create an agent from scratch it’s like a pretty simple agent at
0:07:39 first it’s like yeah an agent that like sends and receives messages it tests it like hello can you
0:07:44 hear me so this is an agent talking to an agent and it works wow that’s amazing i would be remiss if
0:07:47 i didn’t mention i feel like at this point it’s a tradition every time anyone talks about computer use
0:07:53 agents like they talk about grocery and like flight booking you know is that i do have an agent that
0:07:58 does that for me yeah so you can see you know every week it wakes up it pulls maybe this is tmi
0:08:04 like this is my grocery list on uh door dash it’s pretty tame stuff like cucumber brussels sprouts all
0:08:08 of that stuff and then you see it it just goes on door dash and it’s searching for everything so it’s
0:08:14 like looking for brussels sprouts adding them to the cart like same for like steak salmon all of that stuff
0:08:19 and then in the end it just orders and i received the groceries like this is how i do my groceries now
0:08:23 and can you set up like a timer where it does it automatically and you don’t have to do anything
0:08:26 or do you have to kind of like approve it every time or like what’s the steps there is that is how
0:08:31 it is set up right now i’ll actually switch to the flow editor so yeah every friday at 5 pm it’s like
0:08:36 an end of week thing i’ve actually changed it so now it sends me an email to me and my girlfriend
0:08:42 and it’s like hey this is the grocery list do you guys want to add or remove anything and then it
0:08:46 waits like 10 hours basically and the morning after if we don’t reply it just assumes that like
0:08:50 the grocery list is good and then it does the grocery for us and when it’s done it sends another
0:08:57 email to say it did it that is crazy i’ve got to set this something like this up yeah another one this
0:09:02 one is like so simple and it was also created with agent builder i’ll actually show you twitter
0:09:09 computer use this was like one of the very first things i tried with agent builder people ask me like
0:09:13 how did you create this agent i’m like with agent builder it’s literally just you talk to it and
0:09:18 literally it’s like i have a bunch of spam mills in my mentions on twitter i want you to create an
0:09:25 agent that wakes up every three hours and blocks them that’s it and you can see here wakes up i
0:09:31 changed it to every 12 hours because i’m not spammed that much but like 12 hours is good and then goes to
0:09:37 my mentions finds like this guy i met a blogger who releases awesome analysis like releases stock
0:09:43 information every day he is very good and deserves our attention rainbow emoji it’s like boom blocked
0:09:47 and so i i no longer have spam mills on twitter it’s just like oh that’s great that like blocks them for
0:09:53 me it’s amazing i have this account on twitter i have the name learn on twitter and uh i’m not really
0:09:58 using it right now but occasionally i check it and like it gets tagged by i don’t know hundreds of
0:10:03 people a day who are like just talking about random stuff and then tag at learn for some reason right
0:10:07 i would love to use this and just block all of them i mean now it’s literally you can just prompt
0:10:12 it just ask you to do it and i’ll do it for you how does that determine who’s a spammer like would it
0:10:15 possibly like block people they shouldn’t who were like just like leaving a comment underneath and it
0:10:21 was just kind of like a generic comment like lfg or something like that or you know so it happened once
0:10:25 i prompted it to like the ai grief tales you know like all the people who are like it’s completely
0:10:30 over opening i released the thing like nothing will be the same again yeah and it started blocking them
0:10:35 and i’m like hey don’t block mentions of ai grief tales hey i put out one of those like every month or
0:10:40 two so i mean hopefully you know you gotta feed the algorithm occasionally you know yeah they look
0:10:44 spammy but they’re harmless so look i’ve just i’ve just prompted it and i’m like hey like those are
0:10:50 examples of of spam emails yeah cool yeah i was thinking you know i’ve had elon must like respond
0:10:53 to some of my tweets before with like a crying emoji or something like maybe the ai will be like yeah
0:10:59 that’s definitely a spammer i’m blocking you don’t want to you don’t want to block that i mean like i
0:11:04 have been pleasantly surprised because i receive a lot of like cry emojis like lfg and all of that stuff
0:11:08 and i was like is it going to think it’s a spammer and i’ve been like keeping an eye on it and no i mean
0:11:13 like so far so good it’s awesome the new version of lindy you know lindy 3.0 like what’s the main
0:11:18 way you’re using it besides shopping like are you guys using it internally already a lot or like you
0:11:23 know we are using it quite a bit we’re using it a lot for well the qa stuff is awesome like it’s
0:11:28 basically replaced the qa engineer for us like this is the kind of thing we would have paid 180 000 a
0:11:34 year before you know um and now it’s just an agent prospecting is another awesome one we have built an
0:11:41 agent that goes on linkedin and um finds the posts there’s a lot of posts that are like i have built this
0:11:46 awesome agent like comment agent to get it in your dms and all of that stuff and so we cut it like
0:11:51 comment farming like when people do that we can see who’s commenting agent right and so we can reach out
0:11:56 to them by dms as well and we can be like hey you know like reach out to the person and we actually
0:12:01 reach out to them in a personalized fashion so like lindy goes on linkedin and clicks and like looks at
0:12:05 the profile and then sends them a message just like hey like we saw you commented agent do you want to
0:12:09 learn more about different agents that we could deploy for you are you doing tactics like that to
0:12:13 uh you know like see who’s following your competitors and and things like that and then interacting with
0:12:19 them somehow we do have an agent for uh competitive snooping absolutely and that’s the kind of thing i
0:12:24 think that’s like the beauty of ai agents i think people underestimate the extent to which they’re like
0:12:27 oh my god i’m gonna be able to save money because i can replace stuff that humans used to do but
0:12:33 actually what you can do is that you can ask these ai agents to go much deeper than humans did so for
0:12:38 example the competitor analysis uh agent right it is kind of shocking how open salespeople are
0:12:43 sometimes about numbers on their linkedin because i guess the numbers are like the resumes right but
0:12:48 like they can say hey bragging rights and yeah yeah i have closed like four million dollars of revenue in
0:12:53 one year i have closed like acv three hundred thousand dollars average contract value and whatnot
0:12:58 and i’m like this is interesting and i couldn’t ask a human on my team i would never ask a human on my
0:13:02 team to like every month go and open the linkedin profiles of every single salesperson of every
0:13:07 single one of my competitors and see what they’ve posted and all of that stuff i can ask the person
0:13:11 who you would ask to do that would probably be like a lower level employee who would do something like
0:13:15 that and maybe they’d make more mistakes and and whatnot if you did have someone do that yeah that’s
0:13:19 right so with the agents i feel no shame i can ask you to do this thing and it’s like an analysis that
0:13:24 would have taken a human i go so deep like this would have taken a human like two or three full
0:13:28 days like i’m never going to spend two or three full days doing competitor analysis as a startup
0:13:36 right i can do it with agents okay let’s be honest your ai prompts aren’t giving you the results you
0:13:43 deserve but with a little coaching you can transform from basic prompts to engineering conversations that
0:13:50 get you exactly what you want from chat gpt that’s what this playbook delivers not just random prompts but
0:13:56 a step-by-step system with the exact techniques top ai professionals use every day you’ll have your own
0:14:03 personalized prompt engineering system that delivers consistent results get it right now scan the qr code
0:14:09 or click the link in the description below now let’s get back to the show so content production
0:14:14 we are in the process of rolling out an agent this one is really good it’s a competition so agents can
0:14:19 work together so there is one agent that’s like a content strategist and there is one agent that’s
0:14:24 a content producer so the content strategist comes up with a bunch of ideas of videos okay and then it
0:14:30 forms them out to a bunch of content producers the content producer produces the content on vo3 and then
0:14:38 posts it on instagram and tiktok and youtube and then after it posted it a week later it wakes back
0:14:42 up it looks at the videos it posted and it’s like okay how did they do both in terms of views and in
0:14:47 terms of comments like what did people like and it reports the findings back to the content strategist
0:14:53 which then uses these learnings to plan the next batch of content that’s amazing i’m sorry but like
0:14:57 we’ve been working on this for like two and a half years like to me like the fact that i can describe
0:15:03 this workflow with this trade face just blows my mind like it’s just it’s insane and it’s crazy like
0:15:06 all this kind of stuff but like i know how amazing it is but i have to like try to like you know almost
0:15:11 like have like a beginner’s mindset to like remember like how amazing all this is you know you told me
0:15:14 like three years ago it’s like what the hell are you talking about there’s no you know that’s crazy
0:15:19 especially like five years ago i would have no idea that something like this was gonna be possible
0:15:23 but uh now it’s like every time i have a new guest on they tell me something that’s insane
0:15:27 and i’m just like i kind of get used to it and a lot of people you talk to they seem to get
0:15:31 completely used to it like oh yeah of course you can do that i agree we we feel this quite a bit in
0:15:36 the office like we were at the office last night at like 10 p.m and we were like whiteboarding like
0:15:39 it’s a plan basically it’s like okay we’re gonna do this we’re gonna ship that then like you’re gonna
0:15:43 work on that 24 and then 12 months from now we’re gonna have like basically something that
0:15:48 approaches agi right like approaches an ai employee you can just talk to it and it does it
0:15:53 and i’m like guys like how insane is that like we just thought it’s the plan like it’s not like a sci-fi
0:15:58 book it’s like no no it’s the roadmap right right i mean since the last time we talked this already
0:16:02 seems like half the way there compared to what you showed me last time you’ve already made the fact
0:16:07 that you can literally just talk to the ai and it helps you kind of create the agent versus you
0:16:11 having to go manually set everything up or use a template or whatever that’s that’s a huge step forward
0:16:16 yes yes i mean and this is us right like this is the application layer then there is the model layer
0:16:21 like imagine what’s happening right now inside the labs like i find it kind of strange that the labs
0:16:26 basically right now are doing victory laps like they are saying we’ve got like super intelligence is
0:16:31 coming guys like we’re in the takeoff right now we’ve basically got agi and now we’re like on our way
0:16:39 to asi it’s weird yeah and most people are just like yeah yeah no biggie you know yeah which is why
0:16:42 like i’m in these group chats and there was this conversation the other day i’m like in all of
0:16:48 these ai group chats and there was this one with like a bunch of founders and they will be moaning
0:16:53 the frenzy around ai these days they’re like i’m so tired of it and i totally get it it’s like i’m so
0:16:58 tired of it there’s so much like grandiloquence just like so much hucksterism so many people just
0:17:02 like promising the moon and all of that stuff and i’m like look there’s always going to be hucksters
0:17:09 but i believe that ai is actually under hyped and i’m saying that knowing full well how hyped it is
0:17:13 i’m like guys like brace yourselves because if you’re tired of it now like this is only the beginning
0:17:19 like it’s gonna get wild out there i agree i actually have a presentation now that starts with ai is
0:17:23 underhyped massively underhyped yeah to me it’s kind of like if you’re like in the early 2000s
0:17:27 you know and there was like the dot-com bubble and you’re like i’m so tired of the of the internet
0:17:30 the internet like everyone’s talking about the internet like who’s going to use the internet
0:17:34 can’t wait for it to be over all the huck still talking about the internet can’t wait for it to
0:17:40 blow over i’m like yeah i knew it was a scam look they crashed it’s the internet’s done it was all yes
0:17:47 exactly exactly and then the entire world changed and yeah and people can’t realize that you know ai has
0:17:50 in my opinion has the potential to be way more impactful than the internet i mean you’re talking
0:17:54 about intelligence you’re talking about powering robots you’re talking about it’s so much bigger than
0:18:00 the internet i think the average person right now a lot of them would be comparing this to like crypto
0:18:04 or something like they think it’s just like okay it’s a you know it’s another new thing and it’s like
0:18:09 they’re not getting the paradigm shift that’s happening right now for all of humanity i think
0:18:14 some people compare it to the internet some people compare it to like the automobile or like electricity
0:18:19 like some people compare it to like the wheel or fire like again i’m gonna be one of these like
0:18:23 grandiloquent huckstails but okay go for it i compare it to life i compare it to like the
0:18:27 bills of life on the earth yeah yeah i think it’s a new life form basically and i think it’s going to
0:18:32 be that deeply transformative i agree i i say electricity because i feel like people can slightly
0:18:36 comprehend what i’m saying but like and maybe they think it’s like exaggeration but i i agree you know
0:18:41 we’re creating a form of life here yeah it feels weird sometimes you have somebody posted about this
0:18:45 other day where they’re talking about like how it feels like way less than one percent of people get
0:18:50 what’s happening right now and it’s just an odd time to be alive and understand what’s happening
0:18:55 i kind of find it funny now i guess just like all this is happening and most people just think this
0:19:02 is like a cool chatbot or something do you ever feel like vertigo like do you do you yourself like feel
0:19:09 overwhelmed they’re like this is wild like oh yeah totally especially because right now with ai i’m like
0:19:14 you know juggling four different little businesses they’re all cash flowing and getting involved in
0:19:18 more things and ai is just enabling that where in the past there’s no way i would have been able to
0:19:24 have done that and now you’re showing me this i’m like oh maybe i could be doing more yeah yeah and
0:19:29 with my personality it’s like why not do more of course i’ll do more yeah i feel like that’s that’s
0:19:33 a common journey that people are going through and like at first they’re ignorant and then they they
0:19:37 find out about it and like they’re skeptical then they’re really excited then they get so excited
0:19:41 that if anything it gives them vertigo they’re like this is insane like this is this is way bigger than
0:19:46 than anyone is realizing yeah and then i feel like the final stage is almost one of denial it’s
0:19:50 like once you get past the point of vertigo like some people like hang out there for like a while i
0:19:54 certainly was there for like a very long time and i feel like at some point you almost it turns almost
0:19:59 into a shrug it’s like yep i guess it’s coming it’s like i don’t know what else to do or say about it
0:20:04 you know i guess i’m just gonna keep living my life in a normal way until it happens right yeah well i mean
0:20:09 you know we had this conversation last time at the end it kind of slightly on a dark note you know i am
0:20:13 more on the optimistic side of where this all goes i think you’re kind of a bit more worried
0:20:18 about where the technology goes and uh not to say that i’m not worried at all but i’m definitely uh
0:20:23 more optimistic so for me i’m definitely on the side of let’s accelerate this as fast as possible
0:20:28 and for me the main thing is you know making sure that the us and its allies win at this right that’s
0:20:34 like my overall goal in life right now is like i’ve been trying to think like what can i possibly do in
0:20:38 my life it’s actually important any small little thing i can do to make sure that countries that care
0:20:43 about freedoms and civil rights actually win at this and that’s what spreads around the world that’s
0:20:49 what’s important to do and look like for the record like i am 90 optimistic i think there’s a 90 chance
0:20:54 that everything goes well i’m just saying like even if it’s 10 chance of literal extinction that’s very
0:20:58 high that’s much too high for comfort but yeah look even if things go well i think like to some extent
0:21:04 there is a degree of like instinctual mammal reaction where it’s like change is scary i think
0:21:09 it’s just like we currently live in the middle ages and we’re going to be catapulted into the year 3000
0:21:14 yeah it’s gonna be weird and fast and overwhelming yeah totally actually i was having this conversation
0:21:18 with my mom the other day if i talked to her like 20 years ago there’s no way she would imagine that
0:21:23 she’d be like on youtube all the time right and checking all these websites all the time i mean like
0:21:28 life for like people all ages is already like dramatically changed and it is amazing that we just
0:21:33 adapt so it feels like yeah we are going to be catapulted into this crazy new future
0:21:38 and i think people are just going to get used to things over and over you’re right i think you know
0:21:41 you’re totally right actually that’s why i’m saying just laugh about it it’s like things are going to get
0:21:48 humorous things are gonna be very unusual and that’s going to be just fun and so laugh about it i think
0:21:54 yeah as long as it goes well no i guess you’re right that like humans are very adaptable right
0:21:58 and it is true that like we’ve gone through many changes like waves of dramatic change like if you
0:22:03 think of covet right it was like all right i guess that’s life now you know we just get used to
0:22:07 whatever is going on like almost alarmingly quickly right
0:22:16 my first million hosted by sam parr and sean puri is brought to you by the hubspot podcast network
0:22:21 the audio destination for business professionals my first million features famous guests like alex
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0:22:32 and how to apply their learnings to capitalize on today’s business trends and opportunities
0:22:39 they recently had a fascinating episode about how you can scale a profitable agency with zero employees
0:22:44 using ai agents listen to my first million wherever you get your podcasts
0:22:51 one other thing i’ve been thinking about too is like to get back more on talking about like some
0:22:54 material things people who are listening like business owners and things like that who are listening
0:22:58 one thing that’s really crazy right now is like it’s getting really hard to predict where anything is
0:23:02 going with companies like i’ve seen like perplexity announced comments so they’ve got a browser now
0:23:05 and i feel like okay well maybe the browser is going to touch it’s like more like a new operating system
0:23:11 in a way with ai it’s going to touch everything you know you guys are like interacting with crm now
0:23:17 hubspot’s connecting to claud’s mcp claud announced that they’re going to be you know doing emails and
0:23:22 managing your contacts it’s like it feels like almost all of the different companies are like
0:23:26 stepping on each other’s toes in one way or another and i think in the past it feels like oh you know
0:23:30 google’s doing this and you can kind of predict what they’re going to do next and it feels like all the
0:23:35 major companies are all gonna are all fighting for you know things that have a lot of overlap
0:23:40 right now yeah i’ve thought a lot about it there is one friends that i argue with all the time about
0:23:46 this because you know look if it is true that code production is going to basically be free if it is
0:23:50 true that you’re going to be able to build any product you want in one prompt like there’s a very
0:23:55 big if here right but if you really believe that you can build something even perhaps as complex as
0:24:00 like a crm in the limit right like an email client with just a prompt then it is true that like the
0:24:07 last moat left and the last barrier to entry is distribution i think it really means that like
0:24:12 production and product is going to basically be worth zero and i think we’re going to have this like
0:24:18 immense conglomerates of mega apps you know and the kind of conglomerate that like so far right now
0:24:23 there’s like two mega apps there’s like the google ecosystem and like the microsoft ecosystem
0:24:27 right like the office suite like those are the two players right like they give you email they give
0:24:31 you documents to give you directory they give you file system all of that stuff right like like team
0:24:36 collaboration all of that stuff right it’s telling that the only two companies that have been able to
0:24:41 pull this off are today like two or three trillion dollar companies it’s just really hard to build that
0:24:47 much product you know and i think like salesforce has been trying to be this mega app as well but
0:24:51 they’re doing it in a different fashion they’re like they’re acquiring the quiet quip for like the office
0:24:56 suites acquired slack for like the collaboration and all of that stuff i think it is likely that we start
0:25:01 to see more mega apps now because product is going to be less of a differentiator and less of an
0:25:07 obstacle and as a result i do think that it is likely that the intensity of competition increases
0:25:12 dramatically over the next few years hmm you do angel invest in some startups correct yeah quite a
0:25:16 bit how do you think about that right now because like i recently invested in a uh i’m not gonna
0:25:20 say the name but like a startup that’s doing you know kind of mixture between like uh using ai for
0:25:26 email and crm and then i see what you’re doing i see what hubspot doing i see what uh cloud just
0:25:31 announced i’m like okay yeah so maybe they already have like 10 competitors i thought they had like
0:25:36 one yeah yeah how are you thinking about that with your angel investors i don’t um i i think like
0:25:40 one of the advantages of being an angel investor instead of a vc is that you get to be delightfully
0:25:45 undisciplined about your investments like you get to do like vibe based investment oh this is a smart
0:25:50 guy i like him and i like the you know yeah kind of his job or whatever the product is great like i
0:25:53 mostly like a product guy i’m like that makes total sense just a ride like look i was one of the first
0:25:58 checks in lovable i was like yeah i can type this thing and get a website yeah that sounds great you
0:26:04 know take my money i should have anton was messaging me and like i was busy oh no i started writing
0:26:08 checks of like maybe like three or four months after that actually my first angel checks
0:26:12 uh and i messaged him later i was like oh i’m so busy i’ll check it out sometime and just yeah
0:26:17 never checked it out i actually met recently a vc and this is my point about angels getting to be
0:26:23 undisciplined i met a vc who passed on them and uh they told me you know we couldn’t get to a point of
0:26:28 view on like the future of the category and who’s going to be the winner and what’s going to be the
0:26:32 most and i’m like i totally get it i get things from like their point of view because they signed like
0:26:37 huge checks you know and i’m i’m so glad i’m not in their shoes i’m like yeah the vibes were great i love the
0:26:42 product i love the guy i just i just put the check in yeah yeah and he was hustling on twitter like
0:26:46 super hard back then i remember he was putting out tons of videos like oh yeah i’m building this
0:26:50 i’m building this with it yeah so i i try to not overthink my angel investing and it’s working out so
0:26:56 far just vibe invest exactly you know the midweek curve i think that’s kind of that it’s like invest
0:27:02 in good people and good products and everything’s gonna work out right makes sense we probably should
0:27:06 end with like some key takeaways of like how can people you know anyone who’s listening to this right now uh
0:27:10 uh when can they try the new lindy and like what would you tell people like what are they gonna be able
0:27:15 to do this that maybe they couldn’t do before yeah try it now you go to lindy.ai there’s a big
0:27:19 text box and you type what you want in there and it’s gonna do it for you i think again that’s that’s
0:27:25 the beauty of it’s like ai agents are no longer like a cool thing that like you see a lot of people
0:27:29 hype about on twitter it’s like no it’s here you got a text box you type something you get it
0:27:34 it’s that simple what people are going to be able to do with it like think of it as a really smart
0:27:39 really cheap really fast intern and you have infinite interns now and so like that’s my point
0:27:43 about like the competitive analysis is like i have infinite interns and imagine i have like a full-time
0:27:49 intern doing like insane competitive analysis that’s what they’re doing anything that you find yourself
0:27:55 doing more than twice basically any task can now take you about five minutes to automate fully end to end
0:27:59 and so if you’re going to spend more than five minutes doing this task over the next month just
0:28:05 create an agent for it and basically if you do it well over time your job should consist more and more
0:28:11 of just operating your agents just orchestrating your entire agent ecosystem inside of an org who do you
0:28:15 think are the main people who do use lindy and like and do you think you should have someone who
0:28:19 like kind of manages all the agents or like everybody now that it’s simple everyone should just they’re
0:28:23 gonna have to do it on their own for whatever role they have i think it’s both we do see companies
0:28:28 there tends to be a champion inside the company like every company has got the ai guy right so like
0:28:32 that’s really helpful to have yeah yes you should have that person that creates a bunch of ai agents
0:28:37 but again if you fully embrace which we do like if you fully embrace the vision of the ai employee
0:28:42 should every employee report up to the same person inside the company i don’t think so right i think
0:28:46 you really want everyone in your company to turn them basically everybody got a promotion
0:28:52 congrats you’re a manager of like a an unlimited amount of interns that’s right the more creative
0:28:56 you can be the you know more productive you can be you can that’s right more and more of them yeah
0:29:01 that’s right and i think insofar as you have a centralized person that person’s job should be to
0:29:04 facilitate this transformation inside the company i really view it as it’s the same thing as digital
0:29:10 transformations like ah we’re moving from like pen and paper and faxes to computers and from computers on
0:29:14 prime to cloud like it’s the same things like you’re moving to from like humans to like an ai-filled
0:29:19 company and you expect everyone to pitch in and everyone to turn themselves into these managers
0:29:23 of ai agents and so you sort of need like a little bit of you need someone to like constantly be
0:29:28 like a wind in the backs of people because otherwise the status quo is going to win and people are going to
0:29:33 get stuck in their habits but yeah no i think like the functions i think again go to market i think
0:29:39 prospecting is a really big use case like sdr account executives like coaching people is a really
0:29:44 big use case like we’ve got ai agents now sitting in every meeting in the company and like they report
0:29:49 on meetings they coach people who are in meetings engineers like it’s really useful for like code
0:29:54 reviews for like qa as well to like test your application for recruiting is really helpful like
0:29:58 it’s basically a form of sales recruiting for accounting it’s more and more helpful for like
0:30:03 any like sort of like batch document processing like we’ve got a company that receives a lot of invoices
0:30:08 they have an agent it uses computer use because it uses quickbooks and the quickbooks api is not
0:30:12 good i don’t know if anyone from quickbooks is listening to us but like the api is bad and so
0:30:16 we were never able to make it work and so we just now we’re just going through the back door and
0:30:22 we’re using computer use and it just receives invoices by emails looks at like the invoice number
0:30:27 all of that stuff finds the vendor on quickbooks like enters all of the information again it’s a really
0:30:33 smart intel i was sitting there thinking about like what this is going to do to performance reviews
0:30:37 like i’ve successfully set up 10 lindies you know and someone comparing it to some else oh this other
0:30:41 one’s actually got this person’s got 30 lindies going and they’re all like producing results that
0:30:45 being like how you judge how well an employee is doing based on how many you know lindies they’re
0:30:50 properly you know have set up and operating you are kidding but we have one employee and like
0:30:53 they’re killing it everyone’s like oh my god like they’re the goat i don’t know how they do it
0:30:58 and we as a user of lindy you receive an email at the end of every week that’s like lindy saved you
0:31:03 x hours this week and this employee shared a screenshot of their report and their report goes
0:31:11 like lindy saved you like the equivalent of 40 full-time employees it’s like 2 000 hours it’s like
0:31:15 oh my god that’s how you do it like we basically have like a whole different org inside the company
0:31:19 that we didn’t even know about so like this person’s just got like a whole org of like 40 agents working
0:31:24 for them it’s actually much more than 40 agents like thousands of agents it’s like the equivalent
0:31:28 of 40 full-time employees worth of work yeah and it’s kind of like then do you pay them a lot more
0:31:33 money because of that or like the company owns the setup of the agent so it’s kind of complicated
0:31:39 the company does own the agents so don’t give them ideas like i want you saving you 40 times money
0:31:44 give me 10 times more money you know no it’s also costing us a pretty penny employees at lindy have
0:31:49 like unlimited lindy credits but like it’s very expensive actually the tokens are so expensive
0:31:55 and so our own lindy bill is outrageous and we’re very happy to do it because like in the end our
0:32:00 overall burn like compared to how fast for growing is actually really slow really small and that’s
0:32:04 because like i actually think we spend almost as much in tokens as we do in humans wow is most of
0:32:09 that money going to anthropic or open ai or anthropic is the default model today and yes most of it is
0:32:14 going to anthropic yeah one other thing when you were talking about the different use cases can you
0:32:18 create invoices and stuff with lindy yet i’m still using fresh books to send out invoices for a few
0:32:22 different things and like it’s such a pain it’s like why am i paying these people to just
0:32:27 generate an invoice and email it it can do anything that you can do on a computer okay awesome i gotta
0:32:33 try that so computer use man just try it and yes it will create invoices for you awesome cool well
0:32:37 it’s been great having you on here i think this has been a useful episode for people and anyone who’s
0:32:43 listening they should check out lindy and try it out yeah 100 yeah thanks for having me nathan yeah it’s
0:32:54 it’s been great thank you
0:00:17 down with flo crevello founder and ceo of lindy the ai agent company everyone in silicon valley
0:00:23 is watching after a year in the lab lindy is unveiling lindy 3.0 and flow is ready to show
0:00:29 us why it could change how we work we demo agents that run your crm qa your product book groceries
0:00:35 block spammers and scout competitors all through natural language you’ll watch an agent take over
0:00:41 a browser click and scroll like a human and finish tasks in minutes imagine if every employee at your
0:00:48 company had an army of ai interns that’s actually possible today before we get started now we spend
0:00:52 a lot of time working on these episodes and getting on the best guests possible to help make sure that
0:00:57 you’re prepared for the age of ai but most of you who listen aren’t subscribed so if you can please
0:01:03 take a moment and subscribe it would mean a lot to me and the team now let’s dive in with flo crevello
0:01:11 cutting your sales cycle in half sounds pretty impossible but that’s exactly what sandler
0:01:17 training did with hubspot they used breeze hubspot’s ai tools to tailor every customer interaction without
0:01:23 losing their personal touch and the results were pretty incredible click-through rates jumped 25 percent
0:01:28 and qualified leads quadrupled and people spent three times longer on their landing pages
0:01:32 go to hubspot.com to see how breeze can help your business grow
0:01:37 hey flo thanks for coming on
0:01:40 hey nason yeah thanks for having me i was thinking about earlier today i was like i think you’re like
0:01:44 the third returning guest that’s ever been back on the next wave you know other ones are like greg
0:01:48 eisenberg and logan kilpatrick at google so you’re in great company okay
0:01:52 i am in really good company yeah it’s an honor to be here yeah so yesterday you showed me
0:01:58 two demos of new things that you’re building at lindy which i was just blown away by it i’m like okay
0:02:02 this is perfect for our audience and everyone’s gonna get a ton of value out of both of these
0:02:05 i don’t know if you’re calling them features or the new products but maybe you can just kind of explain
0:02:07 and then we can just jump right in
0:02:10 yeah it’s a revamp of the app really we’ve been working on it for like
0:02:16 six or nine months at this point like the entire team we call it like lindy 3.0 so it’s basically an
0:02:21 entire rewrite of the app the long-term vision of what we want to do is build an ai employee
0:02:29 and we are driving towards maximal capability and maximal ease of use ease of use is like we want it
0:02:34 to be as easy as like you just talk to it and you tell it what you want and just does it for you
0:02:39 right and the capability is like it should be able to do anything that anyone can do on a computer
0:02:44 yeah today like in order to build agents like you either have to code or like even like no code tools
0:02:48 like lindy it’s sort of a pain in the ass it’s a no code tool but you have to like drag and drop like
0:02:53 you need to have like a technical mindset and the capabilities like we’ve always been bottlenecked by
0:02:58 integrations like we made like a big announcement like six months ago we released like six thousand
0:03:01 integrations at once and we were like that’s it like we will never need integrations again
0:03:05 and it turns out we are always blocked by integrations and that’s why entropic is doing
0:03:10 mcp right it’s like ah like we’re gonna build this like universal protocol but it’s never going to be
0:03:16 enough and so uh what we’re releasing with 3.0 is we are releasing an agent builder so you can just
0:03:21 talk to it it’s just a prompt and you have a back and forth conversation and just builds the agent for
0:03:26 you it’s actually really cool because the agent builder is built with lindy so it’s like we don’t even
0:03:30 have an admin tool to build the agent builder we just use lindy ourselves and that’s the lindy
0:03:35 yeah and then we have computer use so the agent builder takes care of the usability ease of use
0:03:40 part of the house and computer use takes care of the capability side of the house so it’s like the
0:03:46 final integration basically like you can just see your computer and use it right and it works it’s
0:03:51 shocking it works like better than without that’s crazy so you just talk to lindy and like if i want
0:03:56 to agent for whatever check in my email or check in websites or whatever i want to do you just talk to
0:03:59 it creates the first version or something then you probably can go in there and tweak it i would
0:04:07 assume and things like that yeah no 100 that’s what it is it’s like i have created an agent to
0:04:12 manage my personal crm and it’s literally just like help me manage my personal crm and it’s like okay i’m
0:04:16 going to create an agent this is what it does if you want to add to your crm if you want to retrieve
0:04:21 from your crm and let me just create the agent for you and that’s what it created like first shot
0:04:26 wow right yeah and this is why i want to show video i want to be real with people like yeah people
0:04:30 who have like experience with like lovable or these like vibe coding applications they know that like
0:04:35 this actually takes like one or two minutes so it like it makes for like a pretty boring demo because
0:04:40 like we’re just gonna like see it for like a minute looking at it right but it creates this agent and
0:04:44 then i can be like okay who are ai founders i know and i pre-populated like this like fake crm like
0:04:49 a bunch of like fake names but it’s like hey these are the people you know or i can go like hey
0:04:54 add john do to my crm he’s the founder of acme corp and it has a role to my google sheets so right
0:04:58 now is this mainly with google sheets like in theory could you guys add you know connections
0:05:03 to hubspot or other crms in the future or how does that work we do have connections to hubspot it’s
0:05:08 actually like the most used crm on the platform oh great there no 100 so you can just use any
0:05:12 connection that you want like that’s what like the 6 000 connectors that we built are something to be
0:05:16 useful for and uh when are you guys launching this uh on monday hopefully i think by the time
0:05:21 this ails this should be live yeah awesome have you guys had people testing this like other people
0:05:26 yet but outside of lindy and like what are the main use cases that people are using it for oh yeah
0:05:31 we’ve been in private beta for like weeks at this point like maybe even months the main use cases are
0:05:36 i think like crm management is a really really big one like go-to-market applications are like a
0:05:42 really big one so it’s like sdr workflows account executive workflows like marketing and like content
0:05:46 production workflow like i can give you an example this is the new design of the app and i’m in love
0:05:50 with it i think it looks gorgeous but i can give you a super simple example like find me 10 software
0:05:59 engineers working at zapier and right here it’s like i found 10 software engineers i just like a
0:06:04 previous task but like i did the same it’s like boom these are the names and i can just click and these
0:06:10 are like actual people who work at zapier oh that’s amazing so like could it go the next step and help you
0:06:14 contact those people or could it not do that it will be able to do that right now it cannot connect
0:06:20 to your personal accounts just yet so like this is like an unauthenticated action like the prospecting
0:06:25 action but like the gmail action is going to be authenticated and we’re going to release that in a
0:06:30 couple of weeks awesome yeah so with a computer use could it just like go use your computer eventually
0:06:34 and use linkedin and like and how is linkedin ever going to deal with stuff like that it seems like
0:06:38 at some point that’s going to be crazy that is another really big use case so i can go like
0:06:46 uh reach out to uh i can go flocrivillo yeah who works at lindy on linkedin and it is going to
0:06:50 reach out i actually think for this one we also have an action and not a hundred percent sure
0:06:58 oh it’s going to use computer use let’s see right here so it has found the linkedin and now it is
0:07:03 starting a computer and so again like this is an example of of computer use like while it’s booting i can
0:07:09 like show this other demo it’s getting very meta because now we’re using lindy as a qa engineer
0:07:14 for lindy right so we have created this agent that like you can see it’s super simple it’s like okay
0:07:19 every hour you start a computer you log into lindy we’ve given it credentials you create an agent you
0:07:24 test the agent and then if it failed you send a message to the on call channel on slack and right
0:07:30 here like this is all completely automated like this is the agent that logs in and does the credential
0:07:34 create an agent and end-to-end like create an agent from scratch it’s like a pretty simple agent at
0:07:39 first it’s like yeah an agent that like sends and receives messages it tests it like hello can you
0:07:44 hear me so this is an agent talking to an agent and it works wow that’s amazing i would be remiss if
0:07:47 i didn’t mention i feel like at this point it’s a tradition every time anyone talks about computer use
0:07:53 agents like they talk about grocery and like flight booking you know is that i do have an agent that
0:07:58 does that for me yeah so you can see you know every week it wakes up it pulls maybe this is tmi
0:08:04 like this is my grocery list on uh door dash it’s pretty tame stuff like cucumber brussels sprouts all
0:08:08 of that stuff and then you see it it just goes on door dash and it’s searching for everything so it’s
0:08:14 like looking for brussels sprouts adding them to the cart like same for like steak salmon all of that stuff
0:08:19 and then in the end it just orders and i received the groceries like this is how i do my groceries now
0:08:23 and can you set up like a timer where it does it automatically and you don’t have to do anything
0:08:26 or do you have to kind of like approve it every time or like what’s the steps there is that is how
0:08:31 it is set up right now i’ll actually switch to the flow editor so yeah every friday at 5 pm it’s like
0:08:36 an end of week thing i’ve actually changed it so now it sends me an email to me and my girlfriend
0:08:42 and it’s like hey this is the grocery list do you guys want to add or remove anything and then it
0:08:46 waits like 10 hours basically and the morning after if we don’t reply it just assumes that like
0:08:50 the grocery list is good and then it does the grocery for us and when it’s done it sends another
0:08:57 email to say it did it that is crazy i’ve got to set this something like this up yeah another one this
0:09:02 one is like so simple and it was also created with agent builder i’ll actually show you twitter
0:09:09 computer use this was like one of the very first things i tried with agent builder people ask me like
0:09:13 how did you create this agent i’m like with agent builder it’s literally just you talk to it and
0:09:18 literally it’s like i have a bunch of spam mills in my mentions on twitter i want you to create an
0:09:25 agent that wakes up every three hours and blocks them that’s it and you can see here wakes up i
0:09:31 changed it to every 12 hours because i’m not spammed that much but like 12 hours is good and then goes to
0:09:37 my mentions finds like this guy i met a blogger who releases awesome analysis like releases stock
0:09:43 information every day he is very good and deserves our attention rainbow emoji it’s like boom blocked
0:09:47 and so i i no longer have spam mills on twitter it’s just like oh that’s great that like blocks them for
0:09:53 me it’s amazing i have this account on twitter i have the name learn on twitter and uh i’m not really
0:09:58 using it right now but occasionally i check it and like it gets tagged by i don’t know hundreds of
0:10:03 people a day who are like just talking about random stuff and then tag at learn for some reason right
0:10:07 i would love to use this and just block all of them i mean now it’s literally you can just prompt
0:10:12 it just ask you to do it and i’ll do it for you how does that determine who’s a spammer like would it
0:10:15 possibly like block people they shouldn’t who were like just like leaving a comment underneath and it
0:10:21 was just kind of like a generic comment like lfg or something like that or you know so it happened once
0:10:25 i prompted it to like the ai grief tales you know like all the people who are like it’s completely
0:10:30 over opening i released the thing like nothing will be the same again yeah and it started blocking them
0:10:35 and i’m like hey don’t block mentions of ai grief tales hey i put out one of those like every month or
0:10:40 two so i mean hopefully you know you gotta feed the algorithm occasionally you know yeah they look
0:10:44 spammy but they’re harmless so look i’ve just i’ve just prompted it and i’m like hey like those are
0:10:50 examples of of spam emails yeah cool yeah i was thinking you know i’ve had elon must like respond
0:10:53 to some of my tweets before with like a crying emoji or something like maybe the ai will be like yeah
0:10:59 that’s definitely a spammer i’m blocking you don’t want to you don’t want to block that i mean like i
0:11:04 have been pleasantly surprised because i receive a lot of like cry emojis like lfg and all of that stuff
0:11:08 and i was like is it going to think it’s a spammer and i’ve been like keeping an eye on it and no i mean
0:11:13 like so far so good it’s awesome the new version of lindy you know lindy 3.0 like what’s the main
0:11:18 way you’re using it besides shopping like are you guys using it internally already a lot or like you
0:11:23 know we are using it quite a bit we’re using it a lot for well the qa stuff is awesome like it’s
0:11:28 basically replaced the qa engineer for us like this is the kind of thing we would have paid 180 000 a
0:11:34 year before you know um and now it’s just an agent prospecting is another awesome one we have built an
0:11:41 agent that goes on linkedin and um finds the posts there’s a lot of posts that are like i have built this
0:11:46 awesome agent like comment agent to get it in your dms and all of that stuff and so we cut it like
0:11:51 comment farming like when people do that we can see who’s commenting agent right and so we can reach out
0:11:56 to them by dms as well and we can be like hey you know like reach out to the person and we actually
0:12:01 reach out to them in a personalized fashion so like lindy goes on linkedin and clicks and like looks at
0:12:05 the profile and then sends them a message just like hey like we saw you commented agent do you want to
0:12:09 learn more about different agents that we could deploy for you are you doing tactics like that to
0:12:13 uh you know like see who’s following your competitors and and things like that and then interacting with
0:12:19 them somehow we do have an agent for uh competitive snooping absolutely and that’s the kind of thing i
0:12:24 think that’s like the beauty of ai agents i think people underestimate the extent to which they’re like
0:12:27 oh my god i’m gonna be able to save money because i can replace stuff that humans used to do but
0:12:33 actually what you can do is that you can ask these ai agents to go much deeper than humans did so for
0:12:38 example the competitor analysis uh agent right it is kind of shocking how open salespeople are
0:12:43 sometimes about numbers on their linkedin because i guess the numbers are like the resumes right but
0:12:48 like they can say hey bragging rights and yeah yeah i have closed like four million dollars of revenue in
0:12:53 one year i have closed like acv three hundred thousand dollars average contract value and whatnot
0:12:58 and i’m like this is interesting and i couldn’t ask a human on my team i would never ask a human on my
0:13:02 team to like every month go and open the linkedin profiles of every single salesperson of every
0:13:07 single one of my competitors and see what they’ve posted and all of that stuff i can ask the person
0:13:11 who you would ask to do that would probably be like a lower level employee who would do something like
0:13:15 that and maybe they’d make more mistakes and and whatnot if you did have someone do that yeah that’s
0:13:19 right so with the agents i feel no shame i can ask you to do this thing and it’s like an analysis that
0:13:24 would have taken a human i go so deep like this would have taken a human like two or three full
0:13:28 days like i’m never going to spend two or three full days doing competitor analysis as a startup
0:13:36 right i can do it with agents okay let’s be honest your ai prompts aren’t giving you the results you
0:13:43 deserve but with a little coaching you can transform from basic prompts to engineering conversations that
0:13:50 get you exactly what you want from chat gpt that’s what this playbook delivers not just random prompts but
0:13:56 a step-by-step system with the exact techniques top ai professionals use every day you’ll have your own
0:14:03 personalized prompt engineering system that delivers consistent results get it right now scan the qr code
0:14:09 or click the link in the description below now let’s get back to the show so content production
0:14:14 we are in the process of rolling out an agent this one is really good it’s a competition so agents can
0:14:19 work together so there is one agent that’s like a content strategist and there is one agent that’s
0:14:24 a content producer so the content strategist comes up with a bunch of ideas of videos okay and then it
0:14:30 forms them out to a bunch of content producers the content producer produces the content on vo3 and then
0:14:38 posts it on instagram and tiktok and youtube and then after it posted it a week later it wakes back
0:14:42 up it looks at the videos it posted and it’s like okay how did they do both in terms of views and in
0:14:47 terms of comments like what did people like and it reports the findings back to the content strategist
0:14:53 which then uses these learnings to plan the next batch of content that’s amazing i’m sorry but like
0:14:57 we’ve been working on this for like two and a half years like to me like the fact that i can describe
0:15:03 this workflow with this trade face just blows my mind like it’s just it’s insane and it’s crazy like
0:15:06 all this kind of stuff but like i know how amazing it is but i have to like try to like you know almost
0:15:11 like have like a beginner’s mindset to like remember like how amazing all this is you know you told me
0:15:14 like three years ago it’s like what the hell are you talking about there’s no you know that’s crazy
0:15:19 especially like five years ago i would have no idea that something like this was gonna be possible
0:15:23 but uh now it’s like every time i have a new guest on they tell me something that’s insane
0:15:27 and i’m just like i kind of get used to it and a lot of people you talk to they seem to get
0:15:31 completely used to it like oh yeah of course you can do that i agree we we feel this quite a bit in
0:15:36 the office like we were at the office last night at like 10 p.m and we were like whiteboarding like
0:15:39 it’s a plan basically it’s like okay we’re gonna do this we’re gonna ship that then like you’re gonna
0:15:43 work on that 24 and then 12 months from now we’re gonna have like basically something that
0:15:48 approaches agi right like approaches an ai employee you can just talk to it and it does it
0:15:53 and i’m like guys like how insane is that like we just thought it’s the plan like it’s not like a sci-fi
0:15:58 book it’s like no no it’s the roadmap right right i mean since the last time we talked this already
0:16:02 seems like half the way there compared to what you showed me last time you’ve already made the fact
0:16:07 that you can literally just talk to the ai and it helps you kind of create the agent versus you
0:16:11 having to go manually set everything up or use a template or whatever that’s that’s a huge step forward
0:16:16 yes yes i mean and this is us right like this is the application layer then there is the model layer
0:16:21 like imagine what’s happening right now inside the labs like i find it kind of strange that the labs
0:16:26 basically right now are doing victory laps like they are saying we’ve got like super intelligence is
0:16:31 coming guys like we’re in the takeoff right now we’ve basically got agi and now we’re like on our way
0:16:39 to asi it’s weird yeah and most people are just like yeah yeah no biggie you know yeah which is why
0:16:42 like i’m in these group chats and there was this conversation the other day i’m like in all of
0:16:48 these ai group chats and there was this one with like a bunch of founders and they will be moaning
0:16:53 the frenzy around ai these days they’re like i’m so tired of it and i totally get it it’s like i’m so
0:16:58 tired of it there’s so much like grandiloquence just like so much hucksterism so many people just
0:17:02 like promising the moon and all of that stuff and i’m like look there’s always going to be hucksters
0:17:09 but i believe that ai is actually under hyped and i’m saying that knowing full well how hyped it is
0:17:13 i’m like guys like brace yourselves because if you’re tired of it now like this is only the beginning
0:17:19 like it’s gonna get wild out there i agree i actually have a presentation now that starts with ai is
0:17:23 underhyped massively underhyped yeah to me it’s kind of like if you’re like in the early 2000s
0:17:27 you know and there was like the dot-com bubble and you’re like i’m so tired of the of the internet
0:17:30 the internet like everyone’s talking about the internet like who’s going to use the internet
0:17:34 can’t wait for it to be over all the huck still talking about the internet can’t wait for it to
0:17:40 blow over i’m like yeah i knew it was a scam look they crashed it’s the internet’s done it was all yes
0:17:47 exactly exactly and then the entire world changed and yeah and people can’t realize that you know ai has
0:17:50 in my opinion has the potential to be way more impactful than the internet i mean you’re talking
0:17:54 about intelligence you’re talking about powering robots you’re talking about it’s so much bigger than
0:18:00 the internet i think the average person right now a lot of them would be comparing this to like crypto
0:18:04 or something like they think it’s just like okay it’s a you know it’s another new thing and it’s like
0:18:09 they’re not getting the paradigm shift that’s happening right now for all of humanity i think
0:18:14 some people compare it to the internet some people compare it to like the automobile or like electricity
0:18:19 like some people compare it to like the wheel or fire like again i’m gonna be one of these like
0:18:23 grandiloquent huckstails but okay go for it i compare it to life i compare it to like the
0:18:27 bills of life on the earth yeah yeah i think it’s a new life form basically and i think it’s going to
0:18:32 be that deeply transformative i agree i i say electricity because i feel like people can slightly
0:18:36 comprehend what i’m saying but like and maybe they think it’s like exaggeration but i i agree you know
0:18:41 we’re creating a form of life here yeah it feels weird sometimes you have somebody posted about this
0:18:45 other day where they’re talking about like how it feels like way less than one percent of people get
0:18:50 what’s happening right now and it’s just an odd time to be alive and understand what’s happening
0:18:55 i kind of find it funny now i guess just like all this is happening and most people just think this
0:19:02 is like a cool chatbot or something do you ever feel like vertigo like do you do you yourself like feel
0:19:09 overwhelmed they’re like this is wild like oh yeah totally especially because right now with ai i’m like
0:19:14 you know juggling four different little businesses they’re all cash flowing and getting involved in
0:19:18 more things and ai is just enabling that where in the past there’s no way i would have been able to
0:19:24 have done that and now you’re showing me this i’m like oh maybe i could be doing more yeah yeah and
0:19:29 with my personality it’s like why not do more of course i’ll do more yeah i feel like that’s that’s
0:19:33 a common journey that people are going through and like at first they’re ignorant and then they they
0:19:37 find out about it and like they’re skeptical then they’re really excited then they get so excited
0:19:41 that if anything it gives them vertigo they’re like this is insane like this is this is way bigger than
0:19:46 than anyone is realizing yeah and then i feel like the final stage is almost one of denial it’s
0:19:50 like once you get past the point of vertigo like some people like hang out there for like a while i
0:19:54 certainly was there for like a very long time and i feel like at some point you almost it turns almost
0:19:59 into a shrug it’s like yep i guess it’s coming it’s like i don’t know what else to do or say about it
0:20:04 you know i guess i’m just gonna keep living my life in a normal way until it happens right yeah well i mean
0:20:09 you know we had this conversation last time at the end it kind of slightly on a dark note you know i am
0:20:13 more on the optimistic side of where this all goes i think you’re kind of a bit more worried
0:20:18 about where the technology goes and uh not to say that i’m not worried at all but i’m definitely uh
0:20:23 more optimistic so for me i’m definitely on the side of let’s accelerate this as fast as possible
0:20:28 and for me the main thing is you know making sure that the us and its allies win at this right that’s
0:20:34 like my overall goal in life right now is like i’ve been trying to think like what can i possibly do in
0:20:38 my life it’s actually important any small little thing i can do to make sure that countries that care
0:20:43 about freedoms and civil rights actually win at this and that’s what spreads around the world that’s
0:20:49 what’s important to do and look like for the record like i am 90 optimistic i think there’s a 90 chance
0:20:54 that everything goes well i’m just saying like even if it’s 10 chance of literal extinction that’s very
0:20:58 high that’s much too high for comfort but yeah look even if things go well i think like to some extent
0:21:04 there is a degree of like instinctual mammal reaction where it’s like change is scary i think
0:21:09 it’s just like we currently live in the middle ages and we’re going to be catapulted into the year 3000
0:21:14 yeah it’s gonna be weird and fast and overwhelming yeah totally actually i was having this conversation
0:21:18 with my mom the other day if i talked to her like 20 years ago there’s no way she would imagine that
0:21:23 she’d be like on youtube all the time right and checking all these websites all the time i mean like
0:21:28 life for like people all ages is already like dramatically changed and it is amazing that we just
0:21:33 adapt so it feels like yeah we are going to be catapulted into this crazy new future
0:21:38 and i think people are just going to get used to things over and over you’re right i think you know
0:21:41 you’re totally right actually that’s why i’m saying just laugh about it it’s like things are going to get
0:21:48 humorous things are gonna be very unusual and that’s going to be just fun and so laugh about it i think
0:21:54 yeah as long as it goes well no i guess you’re right that like humans are very adaptable right
0:21:58 and it is true that like we’ve gone through many changes like waves of dramatic change like if you
0:22:03 think of covet right it was like all right i guess that’s life now you know we just get used to
0:22:07 whatever is going on like almost alarmingly quickly right
0:22:16 my first million hosted by sam parr and sean puri is brought to you by the hubspot podcast network
0:22:21 the audio destination for business professionals my first million features famous guests like alex
0:22:27 formozzi sofia amoroso and hassan minhaj sharing their secrets for how they made their first million
0:22:32 and how to apply their learnings to capitalize on today’s business trends and opportunities
0:22:39 they recently had a fascinating episode about how you can scale a profitable agency with zero employees
0:22:44 using ai agents listen to my first million wherever you get your podcasts
0:22:51 one other thing i’ve been thinking about too is like to get back more on talking about like some
0:22:54 material things people who are listening like business owners and things like that who are listening
0:22:58 one thing that’s really crazy right now is like it’s getting really hard to predict where anything is
0:23:02 going with companies like i’ve seen like perplexity announced comments so they’ve got a browser now
0:23:05 and i feel like okay well maybe the browser is going to touch it’s like more like a new operating system
0:23:11 in a way with ai it’s going to touch everything you know you guys are like interacting with crm now
0:23:17 hubspot’s connecting to claud’s mcp claud announced that they’re going to be you know doing emails and
0:23:22 managing your contacts it’s like it feels like almost all of the different companies are like
0:23:26 stepping on each other’s toes in one way or another and i think in the past it feels like oh you know
0:23:30 google’s doing this and you can kind of predict what they’re going to do next and it feels like all the
0:23:35 major companies are all gonna are all fighting for you know things that have a lot of overlap
0:23:40 right now yeah i’ve thought a lot about it there is one friends that i argue with all the time about
0:23:46 this because you know look if it is true that code production is going to basically be free if it is
0:23:50 true that you’re going to be able to build any product you want in one prompt like there’s a very
0:23:55 big if here right but if you really believe that you can build something even perhaps as complex as
0:24:00 like a crm in the limit right like an email client with just a prompt then it is true that like the
0:24:07 last moat left and the last barrier to entry is distribution i think it really means that like
0:24:12 production and product is going to basically be worth zero and i think we’re going to have this like
0:24:18 immense conglomerates of mega apps you know and the kind of conglomerate that like so far right now
0:24:23 there’s like two mega apps there’s like the google ecosystem and like the microsoft ecosystem
0:24:27 right like the office suite like those are the two players right like they give you email they give
0:24:31 you documents to give you directory they give you file system all of that stuff right like like team
0:24:36 collaboration all of that stuff right it’s telling that the only two companies that have been able to
0:24:41 pull this off are today like two or three trillion dollar companies it’s just really hard to build that
0:24:47 much product you know and i think like salesforce has been trying to be this mega app as well but
0:24:51 they’re doing it in a different fashion they’re like they’re acquiring the quiet quip for like the office
0:24:56 suites acquired slack for like the collaboration and all of that stuff i think it is likely that we start
0:25:01 to see more mega apps now because product is going to be less of a differentiator and less of an
0:25:07 obstacle and as a result i do think that it is likely that the intensity of competition increases
0:25:12 dramatically over the next few years hmm you do angel invest in some startups correct yeah quite a
0:25:16 bit how do you think about that right now because like i recently invested in a uh i’m not gonna
0:25:20 say the name but like a startup that’s doing you know kind of mixture between like uh using ai for
0:25:26 email and crm and then i see what you’re doing i see what hubspot doing i see what uh cloud just
0:25:31 announced i’m like okay yeah so maybe they already have like 10 competitors i thought they had like
0:25:36 one yeah yeah how are you thinking about that with your angel investors i don’t um i i think like
0:25:40 one of the advantages of being an angel investor instead of a vc is that you get to be delightfully
0:25:45 undisciplined about your investments like you get to do like vibe based investment oh this is a smart
0:25:50 guy i like him and i like the you know yeah kind of his job or whatever the product is great like i
0:25:53 mostly like a product guy i’m like that makes total sense just a ride like look i was one of the first
0:25:58 checks in lovable i was like yeah i can type this thing and get a website yeah that sounds great you
0:26:04 know take my money i should have anton was messaging me and like i was busy oh no i started writing
0:26:08 checks of like maybe like three or four months after that actually my first angel checks
0:26:12 uh and i messaged him later i was like oh i’m so busy i’ll check it out sometime and just yeah
0:26:17 never checked it out i actually met recently a vc and this is my point about angels getting to be
0:26:23 undisciplined i met a vc who passed on them and uh they told me you know we couldn’t get to a point of
0:26:28 view on like the future of the category and who’s going to be the winner and what’s going to be the
0:26:32 most and i’m like i totally get it i get things from like their point of view because they signed like
0:26:37 huge checks you know and i’m i’m so glad i’m not in their shoes i’m like yeah the vibes were great i love the
0:26:42 product i love the guy i just i just put the check in yeah yeah and he was hustling on twitter like
0:26:46 super hard back then i remember he was putting out tons of videos like oh yeah i’m building this
0:26:50 i’m building this with it yeah so i i try to not overthink my angel investing and it’s working out so
0:26:56 far just vibe invest exactly you know the midweek curve i think that’s kind of that it’s like invest
0:27:02 in good people and good products and everything’s gonna work out right makes sense we probably should
0:27:06 end with like some key takeaways of like how can people you know anyone who’s listening to this right now uh
0:27:10 uh when can they try the new lindy and like what would you tell people like what are they gonna be able
0:27:15 to do this that maybe they couldn’t do before yeah try it now you go to lindy.ai there’s a big
0:27:19 text box and you type what you want in there and it’s gonna do it for you i think again that’s that’s
0:27:25 the beauty of it’s like ai agents are no longer like a cool thing that like you see a lot of people
0:27:29 hype about on twitter it’s like no it’s here you got a text box you type something you get it
0:27:34 it’s that simple what people are going to be able to do with it like think of it as a really smart
0:27:39 really cheap really fast intern and you have infinite interns now and so like that’s my point
0:27:43 about like the competitive analysis is like i have infinite interns and imagine i have like a full-time
0:27:49 intern doing like insane competitive analysis that’s what they’re doing anything that you find yourself
0:27:55 doing more than twice basically any task can now take you about five minutes to automate fully end to end
0:27:59 and so if you’re going to spend more than five minutes doing this task over the next month just
0:28:05 create an agent for it and basically if you do it well over time your job should consist more and more
0:28:11 of just operating your agents just orchestrating your entire agent ecosystem inside of an org who do you
0:28:15 think are the main people who do use lindy and like and do you think you should have someone who
0:28:19 like kind of manages all the agents or like everybody now that it’s simple everyone should just they’re
0:28:23 gonna have to do it on their own for whatever role they have i think it’s both we do see companies
0:28:28 there tends to be a champion inside the company like every company has got the ai guy right so like
0:28:32 that’s really helpful to have yeah yes you should have that person that creates a bunch of ai agents
0:28:37 but again if you fully embrace which we do like if you fully embrace the vision of the ai employee
0:28:42 should every employee report up to the same person inside the company i don’t think so right i think
0:28:46 you really want everyone in your company to turn them basically everybody got a promotion
0:28:52 congrats you’re a manager of like a an unlimited amount of interns that’s right the more creative
0:28:56 you can be the you know more productive you can be you can that’s right more and more of them yeah
0:29:01 that’s right and i think insofar as you have a centralized person that person’s job should be to
0:29:04 facilitate this transformation inside the company i really view it as it’s the same thing as digital
0:29:10 transformations like ah we’re moving from like pen and paper and faxes to computers and from computers on
0:29:14 prime to cloud like it’s the same things like you’re moving to from like humans to like an ai-filled
0:29:19 company and you expect everyone to pitch in and everyone to turn themselves into these managers
0:29:23 of ai agents and so you sort of need like a little bit of you need someone to like constantly be
0:29:28 like a wind in the backs of people because otherwise the status quo is going to win and people are going to
0:29:33 get stuck in their habits but yeah no i think like the functions i think again go to market i think
0:29:39 prospecting is a really big use case like sdr account executives like coaching people is a really
0:29:44 big use case like we’ve got ai agents now sitting in every meeting in the company and like they report
0:29:49 on meetings they coach people who are in meetings engineers like it’s really useful for like code
0:29:54 reviews for like qa as well to like test your application for recruiting is really helpful like
0:29:58 it’s basically a form of sales recruiting for accounting it’s more and more helpful for like
0:30:03 any like sort of like batch document processing like we’ve got a company that receives a lot of invoices
0:30:08 they have an agent it uses computer use because it uses quickbooks and the quickbooks api is not
0:30:12 good i don’t know if anyone from quickbooks is listening to us but like the api is bad and so
0:30:16 we were never able to make it work and so we just now we’re just going through the back door and
0:30:22 we’re using computer use and it just receives invoices by emails looks at like the invoice number
0:30:27 all of that stuff finds the vendor on quickbooks like enters all of the information again it’s a really
0:30:33 smart intel i was sitting there thinking about like what this is going to do to performance reviews
0:30:37 like i’ve successfully set up 10 lindies you know and someone comparing it to some else oh this other
0:30:41 one’s actually got this person’s got 30 lindies going and they’re all like producing results that
0:30:45 being like how you judge how well an employee is doing based on how many you know lindies they’re
0:30:50 properly you know have set up and operating you are kidding but we have one employee and like
0:30:53 they’re killing it everyone’s like oh my god like they’re the goat i don’t know how they do it
0:30:58 and we as a user of lindy you receive an email at the end of every week that’s like lindy saved you
0:31:03 x hours this week and this employee shared a screenshot of their report and their report goes
0:31:11 like lindy saved you like the equivalent of 40 full-time employees it’s like 2 000 hours it’s like
0:31:15 oh my god that’s how you do it like we basically have like a whole different org inside the company
0:31:19 that we didn’t even know about so like this person’s just got like a whole org of like 40 agents working
0:31:24 for them it’s actually much more than 40 agents like thousands of agents it’s like the equivalent
0:31:28 of 40 full-time employees worth of work yeah and it’s kind of like then do you pay them a lot more
0:31:33 money because of that or like the company owns the setup of the agent so it’s kind of complicated
0:31:39 the company does own the agents so don’t give them ideas like i want you saving you 40 times money
0:31:44 give me 10 times more money you know no it’s also costing us a pretty penny employees at lindy have
0:31:49 like unlimited lindy credits but like it’s very expensive actually the tokens are so expensive
0:31:55 and so our own lindy bill is outrageous and we’re very happy to do it because like in the end our
0:32:00 overall burn like compared to how fast for growing is actually really slow really small and that’s
0:32:04 because like i actually think we spend almost as much in tokens as we do in humans wow is most of
0:32:09 that money going to anthropic or open ai or anthropic is the default model today and yes most of it is
0:32:14 going to anthropic yeah one other thing when you were talking about the different use cases can you
0:32:18 create invoices and stuff with lindy yet i’m still using fresh books to send out invoices for a few
0:32:22 different things and like it’s such a pain it’s like why am i paying these people to just
0:32:27 generate an invoice and email it it can do anything that you can do on a computer okay awesome i gotta
0:32:33 try that so computer use man just try it and yes it will create invoices for you awesome cool well
0:32:37 it’s been great having you on here i think this has been a useful episode for people and anyone who’s
0:32:43 listening they should check out lindy and try it out yeah 100 yeah thanks for having me nathan yeah it’s
0:32:54 it’s been great thank you
Want better results from your prompts? Get the Advanced Prompt Engineering guide: https://clickhubspot.com/wrm
Episode 72: What if building an AI agent was as easy as texting a friend? Nathan Lands (https://x.com/NathanLands) sits down with repeat guest Flo Crivello (https://x.com/Altimor), founder and CEO of Lindy—the AI agent platform taking Silicon Valley by storm.
Flo shares the debut of Lindy 3.0, a major revamp aimed at maximum ease-of-use and capability—aiming for nothing less than a full “AI employee.” This episode dives into real-world demos where Lindy automates CRM management, prospecting, content creation, QA testing, grocery shopping, spam blocking, and even competitor research—all with natural language prompts and no technical skills needed. Flo explains the vision for an infinite army of AI “interns,” transformative workflow upgrades, and why he believes we’re just scratching the surface of the coming AI wave.
Check out The Next Wave YouTube Channel if you want to see Matt and Nathan on screen: https://lnk.to/thenextwavepd
—
Show Notes:
-
(00:00) AI Agents: Effortless Workplace Revolution
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(03:53) Quick COD App Demo Insight
-
(06:31) Automated Lindy QA Demo
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(11:35) AI Agents for Competitor Analysis
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(13:30) Automated Content Strategy System
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(17:58) Understanding New Life in AI
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(19:33) Optimism for Tech Advancement
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(22:25) Future of Code: Free Production Debate
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(27:45) AI Transformation Leadership
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(28:49) QuickBooks Invoice Processing Struggles
—
Mentions:
-
Flo Crivello: http://linkedin.com/in/florentcrivello/
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Lindy: https://www.lindy.ai/
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Lovable: https://lovable.dev/
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Zapier: https://zapier.com/
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QuickBooks: https://quickbooks.intuit.com/
Get the guide to build your own Custom GPT: https://clickhubspot.com/tnw
—
Check Out Matt’s Stuff:
• Future Tools – https://futuretools.beehiiv.com/
• Blog – https://www.mattwolfe.com/
• YouTube- https://www.youtube.com/@mreflow
—
Check Out Nathan’s Stuff:
-
Newsletter: https://news.lore.com/
-
Blog – https://lore.com/
The Next Wave is a HubSpot Original Podcast // Brought to you by Hubspot Media // Production by Darren Clarke // Editing by Ezra Bakker Trupiano