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0:01:41 Welcome to the final Prop G episode of 2024.
0:01:42 Can you believe that?
0:01:44 2025, really?
0:01:46 In today’s episode, we’re taking a look back
0:01:47 at some of our favorite conversations
0:01:48 throughout the past year.
0:01:50 We’ve been fortunate enough to have some
0:01:51 of the world’s leading experts
0:01:53 on all sorts of interesting topics,
0:01:55 including geopolitics, psychology, wellness,
0:01:56 and tech.
0:01:58 Let’s bust right into it.
0:02:00 So, an immediate Buster Rundo.
0:02:03 First up, we have a clip from Admiral James Stavridis,
0:02:05 a retired four-star US naval officer.
0:02:08 I’m a big fan of the admirals.
0:02:10 And 2024 certainly won’t be the last time
0:02:11 you’ll hear from him on this show.
0:02:14 Back in February, we discussed the state of global affairs
0:02:17 and what we can do about the fragmentation of the US.
0:02:18 Let’s have a listen.
0:02:23 We need to do more to incentivize and celebrate
0:02:25 the idea of service.
0:02:29 And by the way, this is not confined to the armed forces.
0:02:32 There are a lot of ways to serve this country.
0:02:35 And we need high-quality people who are diplomats,
0:02:39 CIA officers, peace corps volunteers,
0:02:43 Teach for America, Volunteer for America,
0:02:46 our police, firefighters, EMT.
0:02:49 There are a lot of ways to serve the country.
0:02:53 I think we are underweight in incentivizing that
0:02:56 with taxes, educational benefits.
0:02:59 But above all, we are underweight these days
0:03:03 in celebrating it, particularly the non-military.
0:03:06 We do a reasonably good job these days
0:03:08 with thank you for your service.
0:03:10 We ought to broaden that whole concept
0:03:15 and create more of an idea of what it means to be a citizen
0:03:17 and what are the positive incentives
0:03:18 that can come out of this.
0:03:21 Business can help at this.
0:03:23 Again, that was Admiral James DeVaritas,
0:03:24 a frequent guest on the pod
0:03:28 and one of the leading experts in geopolitics.
0:03:30 Next up, we have a clip from Bradley Tusk,
0:03:32 a venture capitalist, political strategist,
0:03:33 philanthropist and writer.
0:03:35 We discussed a number of topics,
0:03:36 including the state of politics
0:03:39 and why the public is fundamentally unhappy.
0:03:43 – Look, I think that we may be entering a world
0:03:48 of one term, presidents, governors, mayors,
0:03:51 because the public is fundamentally unhappy, right?
0:03:53 So a few things.
0:03:56 One is social media, I would argue,
0:03:58 is basically the unhappiness machine.
0:03:59 It does two things.
0:04:00 It forces you to compare your life
0:04:02 to someone’s a fictional life.
0:04:04 So you feel inadequate immediately
0:04:06 and then it shows you everything bad happening
0:04:08 everywhere in the world all at once,
0:04:10 compounded by the views of a million idiots.
0:04:12 So you feel bad about your own life,
0:04:13 you feel bad about yourself.
0:04:15 Then the next step is existential risk.
0:04:16 So when you and I were kids,
0:04:18 there was one major existential risk,
0:04:19 which was nuclear war.
0:04:20 That risk still remains.
0:04:21 It’s probably worse right now
0:04:23 because the proliferation of nukes is getting there
0:04:25 and eventually Iran’s gonna have it.
0:04:26 North Korea has it.
0:04:29 But that you lay on top of that climate change,
0:04:31 the risk of a real serious pandemic.
0:04:34 I mean, COVID had a major impact,
0:04:35 but while it’s highly transmissible,
0:04:37 it wasn’t that lethal.
0:04:39 But I am sure that a version of COVID
0:04:42 that is much more lethal exists in a lab in China
0:04:45 or the US or Russia or Israel or the UK or somewhere,
0:04:47 or more likely all of them.
0:04:48 And so the risk of any of those getting out.
0:04:50 And then with AI, I’m a believer in AI,
0:04:52 but none of us too early for any of us
0:04:54 to really know yet what it’s gonna be.
0:04:55 So the amount of existential risk
0:04:57 has increased significantly.
0:04:59 – That was Bradley Tusk,
0:05:01 a former deputy governor of Illinois
0:05:02 and campaign manager for Michael Bloomberg,
0:05:04 among many other things.
0:05:07 Next up, we have a clip from our good friend,
0:05:09 Jonathan Haidt, colleague at NYU,
0:05:11 who has taken the world by storm this year
0:05:13 with his book, “The Anxious Generation,”
0:05:15 how the great rewiring of childhood
0:05:18 is causing an epidemic of mental illness.
0:05:19 If you listen to this podcast,
0:05:22 you know, I’m an enormous fan of Professor Haidt’s
0:05:24 and his work surrounding the effects of social media
0:05:26 on young people’s mental health.
0:05:28 Here’s the clip.
0:05:29 – The solutions that I propose
0:05:31 are all things we can do together
0:05:34 to liberate our kids from the social action problems.
0:05:36 Very briefly, four steps, four norms.
0:05:38 No smartphone before high school.
0:05:39 Just give them a flip phone.
0:05:41 The millennials were fine with flip phones.
0:05:44 Two is no social media till 16.
0:05:47 Social media is just not suitable for minors, frankly.
0:05:49 It certainly isn’t suitable in early puberty.
0:05:51 Let them get most of the way through puberty
0:05:53 before you invite them to stick their head in a toilet bowl
0:05:56 and flush every day forever and ever.
0:05:58 Third norm is phone-free schools.
0:06:02 The phone is the greatest distraction device ever invented.
0:06:03 Kids text during class.
0:06:05 They watch videos during class.
0:06:06 They watch porn during class.
0:06:10 It’s completely insane that there are schools in this country,
0:06:12 namely most of them, almost all of them,
0:06:14 that allow kids to keep their phones in their pockets
0:06:15 during the day.
0:06:16 And they just say, “Don’t take it out during class,”
0:06:18 but they do take it out during class.
0:06:21 And the fourth norm is far more free play,
0:06:23 independence, and responsibility in the real world.
0:06:24 This is the harder word
0:06:26 because we have to overcome our own anxieties.
0:06:28 But if we’re gonna take away the phones
0:06:30 from, especially in middle school,
0:06:33 if we’re gonna reduce their time on screens,
0:06:34 we have to give them something to do.
0:06:36 And the healthiest thing they can do
0:06:40 is hang out, play with each other, unsupervised.
0:06:43 Let them learn how to work out conflicts
0:06:45 and choose activities.
0:06:48 If we do those, I am confident that we would see
0:06:50 these lines, these incredibly surging lines
0:06:52 of anxiety and depression, they just go up, up, up.
0:06:55 They never go down since 2012.
0:06:57 If we do these four things, I’m pretty confident
0:06:59 we’re gonna see those lines come down.
0:07:01 We’re gonna actually reverse the mental health epidemic.
0:07:05 – That was Total Gangster, Jonathan Haidt,
0:07:08 a professor of ethical leadership and bestselling author.
0:07:10 Moving along, we have a clip from another gangster.
0:07:13 This one in geopolitics, one of our favorites,
0:07:14 Fried Zakaria.
0:07:16 We discussed with Farid his latest book,
0:07:18 “Age of Revolutions, Progress and Backlash”
0:07:20 from 1600 to the present,
0:07:22 the effects of the industrial evolution
0:07:24 and modern geopolitics as a whole.
0:07:28 – The nature of the digital revolution,
0:07:30 if we can just call it that for a moment,
0:07:34 is that it has created a whole new economy
0:07:38 and a whole new mental world for us.
0:07:42 Mark Andreessen’s famous blog post where he talks
0:07:44 about software eating the world.
0:07:45 Gets it exactly right.
0:07:49 The world used to be run, it was a world of atoms.
0:07:52 And what happened is the digital revolution came
0:07:54 and it created a world of bits and bytes
0:07:57 that now control those atoms.
0:07:59 So actually the internal combustion engine
0:08:01 is kind of irrelevant now.
0:08:04 What a car is becoming is software on wheels.
0:08:06 And it’s the software that controls that.
0:08:08 And now what’s going to happen is,
0:08:11 you’re going to have AI that controls the software.
0:08:13 And those things become paramount.
0:08:15 And the point I’m trying to make in the book
0:08:18 is not so much about the economic effect.
0:08:21 It’s the sort of social and psychological consequences
0:08:24 of these changes, which you know and care a lot about.
0:08:27 It is mind-blowing in every way to think about that.
0:08:30 You know, human beings have never had the power
0:08:33 to multiply their minds
0:08:35 the way that AI is going to be able to allow them to do.
0:08:37 What does that do to our conceptions
0:08:39 of who we are as human beings?
0:08:42 – That was Fareed Zakaria, a close friend of the pod
0:08:45 and host of CNN’s flagship international fair show,
0:08:47 Fareed Zakaria GPS.
0:08:49 Now let’s listen to a clip of our episode
0:08:52 with Matthew Hussie, a leading dating expert
0:08:53 and author of the book, Love Life.
0:08:55 How to raise your standards, find your person
0:08:57 and live happily no matter what.
0:09:01 – For so many people I would argue universally
0:09:05 whatever form it comes in, we are looking for love.
0:09:09 We want that feeling of having a mate.
0:09:12 We want that feeling of being attractive
0:09:14 to the people we’re trying to attract.
0:09:16 We want to feel fulfilled in our love lives.
0:09:21 So that desire to find that becomes so,
0:09:24 in some cases, anxiously driven,
0:09:27 especially when time is running out
0:09:28 or it feels like time is running out.
0:09:31 That’s true from on a very literal level
0:09:33 for everyone who’s looking for a family
0:09:36 of their own biologically and for women more than men,
0:09:40 although for men too, more than a lot of them realize.
0:09:44 That fear of time running out amplifies this feeling of,
0:09:46 God, I have this really important position
0:09:47 that I want to fill in my life.
0:09:52 I’m trying to fill the position of my life partner.
0:09:55 And we get so obsessed with how important it is
0:09:58 to fill that position that the moment we go on a date
0:10:02 and we see even the faintest hope that this person
0:10:06 could represent a candidate for that position.
0:10:07 Which, by the way, Scott,
0:10:11 normally is not based on any deeper character traits
0:10:14 ’cause how many of people’s deeper character traits
0:10:17 can we really ascertain on a one-hour first date?
0:10:20 – Next up, we have Jesse Itzler,
0:10:22 a serial entrepreneur, best-selling author,
0:10:25 and part owner of The Atlantic Hawks,
0:10:27 and ultra marathon runner.
0:10:29 We had a great conversation about success,
0:10:32 fitness, and maintaining balance.
0:10:33 – I’ve been super lucky
0:10:36 and probably way more lucky than good,
0:10:38 but I’ve put myself in situations
0:10:40 where I can attract that luck.
0:10:42 I used to come home, Scott, from like,
0:10:43 you know, when I walk into Marquis Gen,
0:10:45 I’d be like, I got a sale last night.
0:10:47 We had a bell, I would ring the bell.
0:10:48 They’d be like, “What do you mean?
0:10:51 “You had the bar, same bar I was at.”
0:10:53 I’m like, “Yeah, but you left it 11 o’clock.”
0:10:56 I stayed till two and I got the sale.
0:10:59 Oh, you’re so lucky, the guy came, I was,
0:11:02 I’m not lucky, I put myself in that situation.
0:11:04 You know, luck doesn’t happen Sunday night
0:11:07 watching the Kardashians on your couch.
0:11:09 It happens when you put yourself in an environment
0:11:13 where the universe can reward you for deep near,
0:11:14 and then you have to be good at what you do
0:11:16 and take advantage of it.
0:11:20 So my 20s and 30s were built around
0:11:23 putting myself in environments where I could get lucky.
0:11:29 Next up is our conversation with Simon Sinek,
0:11:32 a world-renowned author, motivational speaker and friend.
0:11:35 He shares his wisdom surrounding leadership and mentorship.
0:11:37 Here’s a clip.
0:11:41 – I mean, first of all, I don’t believe leaders are the one.
0:11:43 I think that some people have an education
0:11:44 when they’re younger, they have a coach,
0:11:46 they have a parent, they have a guardian,
0:11:49 somebody in their life, a teacher who does something right.
0:11:52 They model themselves after that person
0:11:53 and they seem to learn it younger,
0:11:55 or they have some trials and tribulations
0:11:57 and they learn to overcome and rely on other people,
0:11:58 whatever it is.
0:12:00 But even some of the great leaders that we admire
0:12:03 if you look back, whether it’s Steve Jobs or Mahatma Gandhi,
0:12:06 like, you see that they were learning
0:12:08 and they didn’t get it right a lot of the time,
0:12:11 especially when they were younger, they learned those skills.
0:12:14 Young people, for me fundamentally,
0:12:15 the single best thing a young person can do
0:12:18 is really learn to be a friend.
0:12:22 – That was Simon Sinek, author of the books “Start With Why,”
0:12:25 “The Infinite Game,” and “Find Your Why.”
0:12:27 Up next, our conversation with Andrew Huberman.
0:12:30 Andrew is the host of the Huberman Lab Podcast
0:12:32 and a professor in the Department of Neurobiology
0:12:33 at Stanford University.
0:12:37 He shared his insights on all things physiological health.
0:12:42 – Optimization is something that we have to think about
0:12:43 on a day-to-day basis.
0:12:47 So it is true, I did rounds of sauna and cold this morning.
0:12:50 You know, I did, I got up really early,
0:12:51 a friend came over, I haven’t seen a while ago,
0:12:54 earlier than I would have liked and did sauna and cold.
0:12:55 And I did train yesterday.
0:12:58 But there are days, you know, I miss days, you know,
0:13:01 and it happens and, you know, life.
0:13:03 So I don’t want to give the impression
0:13:07 that my entire life is geared around protocols
0:13:08 to the point where I don’t do other things.
0:13:10 I went out to dinner with friends last night,
0:13:12 you know, I experienced stress in life,
0:13:14 we could talk about that, like anyone else.
0:13:19 So I would say this, figure out the minimum amount
0:13:21 of alcohol that you’re happy to drink
0:13:25 that makes you feel, you know, like you’re living life.
0:13:27 So maybe that’s a drink a night, maybe that’s two weeks,
0:13:30 maybe that’s stacking a few more toward the weekend,
0:13:32 whatever’s gonna work there.
0:13:34 And provided that your sleep is good,
0:13:36 meaning that we know it’s gonna disrupt
0:13:37 your sleep architecture somewhat,
0:13:39 but provided that you don’t have
0:13:41 excessive daytime sleepiness,
0:13:44 provided that you are not getting an increased frequency
0:13:47 of colds and flus, you’re accomplishing your work,
0:13:49 I would say you’re doing great.
0:13:52 Especially as you know, you’re visibly fit.
0:13:55 If you can do the three cardio vascular training sessions
0:13:57 and the two earth, this is the training sessions
0:14:01 that I just described without, you know, dissolving
0:14:04 into a pile of cells on the floor afterwards,
0:14:07 you know, even when you’re doing a 85% intensity
0:14:09 or let’s say 85% intensity of what you could do,
0:14:11 you’re doing great, you’re doing great.
0:14:14 – Fun fact, that was our most listened to episode
0:14:16 of the year, obviously, at Huberman Lab
0:14:18 is one of the 10 biggest podcasts in the world
0:14:22 and Andrew is having a huge impact.
0:14:24 Anyways, next up is a clip from our episode
0:14:25 with Dr. Ayanna Elizabeth Johnson,
0:14:28 a marine biologist, policy expert, writer,
0:14:32 and co-founder of the non-profit Think Tank Urban Ocean Lab.
0:14:36 – I personally don’t think any of this has to be political.
0:14:41 Like, we all actually want a good future for our children
0:14:45 and there’s polling that shows that the biggest motivator
0:14:49 for people to act on climate is love for future generations.
0:14:53 It’s actually not profit, which I found to be surprising.
0:14:55 It’s not any number of other things.
0:14:57 It really is like, I want to leave a better world
0:14:59 for my children and the biggest thing
0:15:02 that can convince conservative men
0:15:06 to care more about climate change is their daughters
0:15:09 saying, you’re setting our future on fire and I’m scared.
0:15:12 And that sort of instinct to protect our daughters,
0:15:15 our children kicks in in this way
0:15:18 that’s actually beneficial for the planet.
0:15:20 So there’s a lot of certainly like psychology
0:15:24 and economics and politics and policy, et cetera,
0:15:26 and culture all at play here.
0:15:29 – That was Dr. Ayanna Elizabeth Johnson,
0:15:31 author of the new book, What If We Get It Right?
0:15:34 Visions of Climate Futures.
0:15:35 Moving along, we have a clip from our interview
0:15:38 with Rory Stewart, the former UK Secretary of State
0:15:39 for International Development
0:15:42 and co-host of The Rest Is Politics.
0:15:46 Liberal democracies haven’t been delivering
0:15:47 well enough for people.
0:15:52 I mean, that for about 200 years from the early 1800s,
0:15:55 it, we could tell a story where we convinced ourselves
0:15:57 that democracies were naturally more prosperous
0:15:59 and as people became more prosperous,
0:16:01 they became more democratic.
0:16:04 And partly because of the rise of China,
0:16:06 but partly because the success
0:16:07 of other authoritarian regimes.
0:16:12 We’ve broken the link in which democracies
0:16:13 are not necessarily delivering for people.
0:16:15 And in certain years, it feels as though
0:16:18 non-democratic states are delivering quite effectively.
0:16:19 So that’s one problem.
0:16:22 I think second, and that is a big problem
0:16:25 because I think the reason why people buy into democracy
0:16:28 is not only because they believe in human rights
0:16:29 and liberal values, it’s also because
0:16:31 it was making them wealthier.
0:16:36 I think the second threat is, I’m afraid, social media.
0:16:40 I think it’s not a coincidence that the rise
0:16:42 of social media from 2003, four onwards
0:16:46 and its explosion with the Arab Spring in 2010, 2011
0:16:48 is part of the story of the rise of populism
0:16:50 and the rise of authoritarianism
0:16:52 because I think it, those are algorithms
0:16:56 that drive people into polarized states.
0:16:59 And I think they are, have been extremely bad
0:17:02 for the key bits of democratic discourse
0:17:06 in particular, compromise, meeting in the middle,
0:17:08 explaining, having a shared frame of reference.
0:17:13 – That was Rory Stewart and his thoughts on modern democracy.
0:17:15 And last but not least, let’s have a listen
0:17:17 to our episode with Angela Duckworth,
0:17:19 a professor of psychology at the University of Pennsylvania
0:17:22 and the author of The New York Times bestseller, GRIT,
0:17:24 The Power of Passion and Perseverance.
0:17:27 Angela shared the attributes of gritty people
0:17:29 and tips for raising resilient children.
0:17:33 – I think GRIT is forged in a crucible,
0:17:36 half of which is challenge.
0:17:37 I mean, what is challenge?
0:17:39 Challenge is being asked to do something
0:17:41 you cannot yet do, right?
0:17:43 You know, 2,000 meters instead of 800,
0:17:45 like whatever it is, right?
0:17:46 I can’t do it.
0:17:49 The challenges exceed my resources or my abilities.
0:17:51 So I think that is half of it.
0:17:52 But, you know, when Nietzsche said
0:17:55 “What doesn’t kill me makes me stronger,”
0:17:58 I mean, it does make you wonder, like, when you look around
0:18:03 and it does actually kill or seriously wound a lot of people.
0:18:06 And I think that’s because the other half of the crucible
0:18:09 and you can agree or disagree with me
0:18:11 is some kind of support.
0:18:16 Like, where does that inner self-talk come from
0:18:19 that says, you know, I’ll show you, right?
0:18:21 Because I think if there was one phrase
0:18:22 that I have heard over and over again
0:18:25 in interviews of the grittiest people,
0:18:29 it’s that when they describe confronting a major challenge,
0:18:32 especially when they’re doubted, right?
0:18:36 And someone else tells them, like, well, you can’t do this.
0:18:40 You know, there is this rage, this, like, voice that says,
0:18:41 I’ll show you.
0:18:45 And my theory is that being in one challenging situation
0:18:49 after another is not enough to give you the voice that says,
0:18:50 I’ll show you.
0:18:52 Somewhere, there has to be support.
0:18:54 Somewhere, there has to be a–
0:18:57 you know, like, I can’t remember Rocky’s coach,
0:18:58 like the guy with the, you know, the–
0:19:00 Burgess Meredith.
0:19:01 Exactly.
0:19:02 Right?
0:19:04 Sailor, you know, like the beanie on.
0:19:07 Like, I think I’ve seen it too often, you know,
0:19:09 that people who are in challenging situations
0:19:12 without support, you know, are not the ones to get up again,
0:19:15 dust themselves off, like, learn something, you know,
0:19:18 come back stronger than they were before.
0:19:21 All right, that’s a wrap on 2024.
0:19:25 Adios, Bente, Bente, Cuatro, 2024.
0:19:27 Jesus Christ, really?
0:19:27 It’s gone.
0:19:30 A big thank you to–
0:19:33 wait for it– you, our listeners,
0:19:35 for a great year.
0:19:39 This has been our best year ever on a number of dimensions.
0:19:41 But also, it’s been a rewarding year on a lot of levels.
0:19:43 A lot of nice people.
0:19:44 We’re paying our people well.
0:19:46 They’re doing well.
0:19:47 We’re growing.
0:19:49 Our people seem to appreciate our work.
0:19:50 I feel as if we’re having an impact.
0:19:52 I see people on the street, and they come up.
0:19:55 They’re super nice, made a bunch of new friends
0:19:56 because of the pod.
0:19:59 Anyways, emotional, psychological, economic reward,
0:20:01 having an impact, having purpose.
0:20:03 And it’s because people give us a shot.
0:20:04 People listen to us.
0:20:06 People provide us with thoughtful, civil feedback.
0:20:07 We get it wrong all the time.
0:20:10 I get it wrong more often than all the time.
0:20:12 And people are always generous with us.
0:20:15 And it’s very much appreciate not only your listenership
0:20:18 but your engagement and for the people who come up and say hi.
0:20:21 A special shout out is just wonderful for me.
0:20:22 It’s one of the nicest things that happens to me
0:20:24 on a regular basis.
0:20:25 Best to you and yours.
0:20:26 Thank you so much.
0:20:29 And here’s to a great 2024 and hoping for an even more
0:20:31 prosperous and healthy 2025.
0:20:34 [MUSIC PLAYING]
0:20:38 [MUSIC PLAYING]
0:20:41 [MUSIC PLAYING]
0:20:44 (gentle music)
0:20:54 [BLANK_AUDIO]
0:00:05 You’re building a business.
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0:01:41 Welcome to the final Prop G episode of 2024.
0:01:42 Can you believe that?
0:01:44 2025, really?
0:01:46 In today’s episode, we’re taking a look back
0:01:47 at some of our favorite conversations
0:01:48 throughout the past year.
0:01:50 We’ve been fortunate enough to have some
0:01:51 of the world’s leading experts
0:01:53 on all sorts of interesting topics,
0:01:55 including geopolitics, psychology, wellness,
0:01:56 and tech.
0:01:58 Let’s bust right into it.
0:02:00 So, an immediate Buster Rundo.
0:02:03 First up, we have a clip from Admiral James Stavridis,
0:02:05 a retired four-star US naval officer.
0:02:08 I’m a big fan of the admirals.
0:02:10 And 2024 certainly won’t be the last time
0:02:11 you’ll hear from him on this show.
0:02:14 Back in February, we discussed the state of global affairs
0:02:17 and what we can do about the fragmentation of the US.
0:02:18 Let’s have a listen.
0:02:23 We need to do more to incentivize and celebrate
0:02:25 the idea of service.
0:02:29 And by the way, this is not confined to the armed forces.
0:02:32 There are a lot of ways to serve this country.
0:02:35 And we need high-quality people who are diplomats,
0:02:39 CIA officers, peace corps volunteers,
0:02:43 Teach for America, Volunteer for America,
0:02:46 our police, firefighters, EMT.
0:02:49 There are a lot of ways to serve the country.
0:02:53 I think we are underweight in incentivizing that
0:02:56 with taxes, educational benefits.
0:02:59 But above all, we are underweight these days
0:03:03 in celebrating it, particularly the non-military.
0:03:06 We do a reasonably good job these days
0:03:08 with thank you for your service.
0:03:10 We ought to broaden that whole concept
0:03:15 and create more of an idea of what it means to be a citizen
0:03:17 and what are the positive incentives
0:03:18 that can come out of this.
0:03:21 Business can help at this.
0:03:23 Again, that was Admiral James DeVaritas,
0:03:24 a frequent guest on the pod
0:03:28 and one of the leading experts in geopolitics.
0:03:30 Next up, we have a clip from Bradley Tusk,
0:03:32 a venture capitalist, political strategist,
0:03:33 philanthropist and writer.
0:03:35 We discussed a number of topics,
0:03:36 including the state of politics
0:03:39 and why the public is fundamentally unhappy.
0:03:43 – Look, I think that we may be entering a world
0:03:48 of one term, presidents, governors, mayors,
0:03:51 because the public is fundamentally unhappy, right?
0:03:53 So a few things.
0:03:56 One is social media, I would argue,
0:03:58 is basically the unhappiness machine.
0:03:59 It does two things.
0:04:00 It forces you to compare your life
0:04:02 to someone’s a fictional life.
0:04:04 So you feel inadequate immediately
0:04:06 and then it shows you everything bad happening
0:04:08 everywhere in the world all at once,
0:04:10 compounded by the views of a million idiots.
0:04:12 So you feel bad about your own life,
0:04:13 you feel bad about yourself.
0:04:15 Then the next step is existential risk.
0:04:16 So when you and I were kids,
0:04:18 there was one major existential risk,
0:04:19 which was nuclear war.
0:04:20 That risk still remains.
0:04:21 It’s probably worse right now
0:04:23 because the proliferation of nukes is getting there
0:04:25 and eventually Iran’s gonna have it.
0:04:26 North Korea has it.
0:04:29 But that you lay on top of that climate change,
0:04:31 the risk of a real serious pandemic.
0:04:34 I mean, COVID had a major impact,
0:04:35 but while it’s highly transmissible,
0:04:37 it wasn’t that lethal.
0:04:39 But I am sure that a version of COVID
0:04:42 that is much more lethal exists in a lab in China
0:04:45 or the US or Russia or Israel or the UK or somewhere,
0:04:47 or more likely all of them.
0:04:48 And so the risk of any of those getting out.
0:04:50 And then with AI, I’m a believer in AI,
0:04:52 but none of us too early for any of us
0:04:54 to really know yet what it’s gonna be.
0:04:55 So the amount of existential risk
0:04:57 has increased significantly.
0:04:59 – That was Bradley Tusk,
0:05:01 a former deputy governor of Illinois
0:05:02 and campaign manager for Michael Bloomberg,
0:05:04 among many other things.
0:05:07 Next up, we have a clip from our good friend,
0:05:09 Jonathan Haidt, colleague at NYU,
0:05:11 who has taken the world by storm this year
0:05:13 with his book, “The Anxious Generation,”
0:05:15 how the great rewiring of childhood
0:05:18 is causing an epidemic of mental illness.
0:05:19 If you listen to this podcast,
0:05:22 you know, I’m an enormous fan of Professor Haidt’s
0:05:24 and his work surrounding the effects of social media
0:05:26 on young people’s mental health.
0:05:28 Here’s the clip.
0:05:29 – The solutions that I propose
0:05:31 are all things we can do together
0:05:34 to liberate our kids from the social action problems.
0:05:36 Very briefly, four steps, four norms.
0:05:38 No smartphone before high school.
0:05:39 Just give them a flip phone.
0:05:41 The millennials were fine with flip phones.
0:05:44 Two is no social media till 16.
0:05:47 Social media is just not suitable for minors, frankly.
0:05:49 It certainly isn’t suitable in early puberty.
0:05:51 Let them get most of the way through puberty
0:05:53 before you invite them to stick their head in a toilet bowl
0:05:56 and flush every day forever and ever.
0:05:58 Third norm is phone-free schools.
0:06:02 The phone is the greatest distraction device ever invented.
0:06:03 Kids text during class.
0:06:05 They watch videos during class.
0:06:06 They watch porn during class.
0:06:10 It’s completely insane that there are schools in this country,
0:06:12 namely most of them, almost all of them,
0:06:14 that allow kids to keep their phones in their pockets
0:06:15 during the day.
0:06:16 And they just say, “Don’t take it out during class,”
0:06:18 but they do take it out during class.
0:06:21 And the fourth norm is far more free play,
0:06:23 independence, and responsibility in the real world.
0:06:24 This is the harder word
0:06:26 because we have to overcome our own anxieties.
0:06:28 But if we’re gonna take away the phones
0:06:30 from, especially in middle school,
0:06:33 if we’re gonna reduce their time on screens,
0:06:34 we have to give them something to do.
0:06:36 And the healthiest thing they can do
0:06:40 is hang out, play with each other, unsupervised.
0:06:43 Let them learn how to work out conflicts
0:06:45 and choose activities.
0:06:48 If we do those, I am confident that we would see
0:06:50 these lines, these incredibly surging lines
0:06:52 of anxiety and depression, they just go up, up, up.
0:06:55 They never go down since 2012.
0:06:57 If we do these four things, I’m pretty confident
0:06:59 we’re gonna see those lines come down.
0:07:01 We’re gonna actually reverse the mental health epidemic.
0:07:05 – That was Total Gangster, Jonathan Haidt,
0:07:08 a professor of ethical leadership and bestselling author.
0:07:10 Moving along, we have a clip from another gangster.
0:07:13 This one in geopolitics, one of our favorites,
0:07:14 Fried Zakaria.
0:07:16 We discussed with Farid his latest book,
0:07:18 “Age of Revolutions, Progress and Backlash”
0:07:20 from 1600 to the present,
0:07:22 the effects of the industrial evolution
0:07:24 and modern geopolitics as a whole.
0:07:28 – The nature of the digital revolution,
0:07:30 if we can just call it that for a moment,
0:07:34 is that it has created a whole new economy
0:07:38 and a whole new mental world for us.
0:07:42 Mark Andreessen’s famous blog post where he talks
0:07:44 about software eating the world.
0:07:45 Gets it exactly right.
0:07:49 The world used to be run, it was a world of atoms.
0:07:52 And what happened is the digital revolution came
0:07:54 and it created a world of bits and bytes
0:07:57 that now control those atoms.
0:07:59 So actually the internal combustion engine
0:08:01 is kind of irrelevant now.
0:08:04 What a car is becoming is software on wheels.
0:08:06 And it’s the software that controls that.
0:08:08 And now what’s going to happen is,
0:08:11 you’re going to have AI that controls the software.
0:08:13 And those things become paramount.
0:08:15 And the point I’m trying to make in the book
0:08:18 is not so much about the economic effect.
0:08:21 It’s the sort of social and psychological consequences
0:08:24 of these changes, which you know and care a lot about.
0:08:27 It is mind-blowing in every way to think about that.
0:08:30 You know, human beings have never had the power
0:08:33 to multiply their minds
0:08:35 the way that AI is going to be able to allow them to do.
0:08:37 What does that do to our conceptions
0:08:39 of who we are as human beings?
0:08:42 – That was Fareed Zakaria, a close friend of the pod
0:08:45 and host of CNN’s flagship international fair show,
0:08:47 Fareed Zakaria GPS.
0:08:49 Now let’s listen to a clip of our episode
0:08:52 with Matthew Hussie, a leading dating expert
0:08:53 and author of the book, Love Life.
0:08:55 How to raise your standards, find your person
0:08:57 and live happily no matter what.
0:09:01 – For so many people I would argue universally
0:09:05 whatever form it comes in, we are looking for love.
0:09:09 We want that feeling of having a mate.
0:09:12 We want that feeling of being attractive
0:09:14 to the people we’re trying to attract.
0:09:16 We want to feel fulfilled in our love lives.
0:09:21 So that desire to find that becomes so,
0:09:24 in some cases, anxiously driven,
0:09:27 especially when time is running out
0:09:28 or it feels like time is running out.
0:09:31 That’s true from on a very literal level
0:09:33 for everyone who’s looking for a family
0:09:36 of their own biologically and for women more than men,
0:09:40 although for men too, more than a lot of them realize.
0:09:44 That fear of time running out amplifies this feeling of,
0:09:46 God, I have this really important position
0:09:47 that I want to fill in my life.
0:09:52 I’m trying to fill the position of my life partner.
0:09:55 And we get so obsessed with how important it is
0:09:58 to fill that position that the moment we go on a date
0:10:02 and we see even the faintest hope that this person
0:10:06 could represent a candidate for that position.
0:10:07 Which, by the way, Scott,
0:10:11 normally is not based on any deeper character traits
0:10:14 ’cause how many of people’s deeper character traits
0:10:17 can we really ascertain on a one-hour first date?
0:10:20 – Next up, we have Jesse Itzler,
0:10:22 a serial entrepreneur, best-selling author,
0:10:25 and part owner of The Atlantic Hawks,
0:10:27 and ultra marathon runner.
0:10:29 We had a great conversation about success,
0:10:32 fitness, and maintaining balance.
0:10:33 – I’ve been super lucky
0:10:36 and probably way more lucky than good,
0:10:38 but I’ve put myself in situations
0:10:40 where I can attract that luck.
0:10:42 I used to come home, Scott, from like,
0:10:43 you know, when I walk into Marquis Gen,
0:10:45 I’d be like, I got a sale last night.
0:10:47 We had a bell, I would ring the bell.
0:10:48 They’d be like, “What do you mean?
0:10:51 “You had the bar, same bar I was at.”
0:10:53 I’m like, “Yeah, but you left it 11 o’clock.”
0:10:56 I stayed till two and I got the sale.
0:10:59 Oh, you’re so lucky, the guy came, I was,
0:11:02 I’m not lucky, I put myself in that situation.
0:11:04 You know, luck doesn’t happen Sunday night
0:11:07 watching the Kardashians on your couch.
0:11:09 It happens when you put yourself in an environment
0:11:13 where the universe can reward you for deep near,
0:11:14 and then you have to be good at what you do
0:11:16 and take advantage of it.
0:11:20 So my 20s and 30s were built around
0:11:23 putting myself in environments where I could get lucky.
0:11:29 Next up is our conversation with Simon Sinek,
0:11:32 a world-renowned author, motivational speaker and friend.
0:11:35 He shares his wisdom surrounding leadership and mentorship.
0:11:37 Here’s a clip.
0:11:41 – I mean, first of all, I don’t believe leaders are the one.
0:11:43 I think that some people have an education
0:11:44 when they’re younger, they have a coach,
0:11:46 they have a parent, they have a guardian,
0:11:49 somebody in their life, a teacher who does something right.
0:11:52 They model themselves after that person
0:11:53 and they seem to learn it younger,
0:11:55 or they have some trials and tribulations
0:11:57 and they learn to overcome and rely on other people,
0:11:58 whatever it is.
0:12:00 But even some of the great leaders that we admire
0:12:03 if you look back, whether it’s Steve Jobs or Mahatma Gandhi,
0:12:06 like, you see that they were learning
0:12:08 and they didn’t get it right a lot of the time,
0:12:11 especially when they were younger, they learned those skills.
0:12:14 Young people, for me fundamentally,
0:12:15 the single best thing a young person can do
0:12:18 is really learn to be a friend.
0:12:22 – That was Simon Sinek, author of the books “Start With Why,”
0:12:25 “The Infinite Game,” and “Find Your Why.”
0:12:27 Up next, our conversation with Andrew Huberman.
0:12:30 Andrew is the host of the Huberman Lab Podcast
0:12:32 and a professor in the Department of Neurobiology
0:12:33 at Stanford University.
0:12:37 He shared his insights on all things physiological health.
0:12:42 – Optimization is something that we have to think about
0:12:43 on a day-to-day basis.
0:12:47 So it is true, I did rounds of sauna and cold this morning.
0:12:50 You know, I did, I got up really early,
0:12:51 a friend came over, I haven’t seen a while ago,
0:12:54 earlier than I would have liked and did sauna and cold.
0:12:55 And I did train yesterday.
0:12:58 But there are days, you know, I miss days, you know,
0:13:01 and it happens and, you know, life.
0:13:03 So I don’t want to give the impression
0:13:07 that my entire life is geared around protocols
0:13:08 to the point where I don’t do other things.
0:13:10 I went out to dinner with friends last night,
0:13:12 you know, I experienced stress in life,
0:13:14 we could talk about that, like anyone else.
0:13:19 So I would say this, figure out the minimum amount
0:13:21 of alcohol that you’re happy to drink
0:13:25 that makes you feel, you know, like you’re living life.
0:13:27 So maybe that’s a drink a night, maybe that’s two weeks,
0:13:30 maybe that’s stacking a few more toward the weekend,
0:13:32 whatever’s gonna work there.
0:13:34 And provided that your sleep is good,
0:13:36 meaning that we know it’s gonna disrupt
0:13:37 your sleep architecture somewhat,
0:13:39 but provided that you don’t have
0:13:41 excessive daytime sleepiness,
0:13:44 provided that you are not getting an increased frequency
0:13:47 of colds and flus, you’re accomplishing your work,
0:13:49 I would say you’re doing great.
0:13:52 Especially as you know, you’re visibly fit.
0:13:55 If you can do the three cardio vascular training sessions
0:13:57 and the two earth, this is the training sessions
0:14:01 that I just described without, you know, dissolving
0:14:04 into a pile of cells on the floor afterwards,
0:14:07 you know, even when you’re doing a 85% intensity
0:14:09 or let’s say 85% intensity of what you could do,
0:14:11 you’re doing great, you’re doing great.
0:14:14 – Fun fact, that was our most listened to episode
0:14:16 of the year, obviously, at Huberman Lab
0:14:18 is one of the 10 biggest podcasts in the world
0:14:22 and Andrew is having a huge impact.
0:14:24 Anyways, next up is a clip from our episode
0:14:25 with Dr. Ayanna Elizabeth Johnson,
0:14:28 a marine biologist, policy expert, writer,
0:14:32 and co-founder of the non-profit Think Tank Urban Ocean Lab.
0:14:36 – I personally don’t think any of this has to be political.
0:14:41 Like, we all actually want a good future for our children
0:14:45 and there’s polling that shows that the biggest motivator
0:14:49 for people to act on climate is love for future generations.
0:14:53 It’s actually not profit, which I found to be surprising.
0:14:55 It’s not any number of other things.
0:14:57 It really is like, I want to leave a better world
0:14:59 for my children and the biggest thing
0:15:02 that can convince conservative men
0:15:06 to care more about climate change is their daughters
0:15:09 saying, you’re setting our future on fire and I’m scared.
0:15:12 And that sort of instinct to protect our daughters,
0:15:15 our children kicks in in this way
0:15:18 that’s actually beneficial for the planet.
0:15:20 So there’s a lot of certainly like psychology
0:15:24 and economics and politics and policy, et cetera,
0:15:26 and culture all at play here.
0:15:29 – That was Dr. Ayanna Elizabeth Johnson,
0:15:31 author of the new book, What If We Get It Right?
0:15:34 Visions of Climate Futures.
0:15:35 Moving along, we have a clip from our interview
0:15:38 with Rory Stewart, the former UK Secretary of State
0:15:39 for International Development
0:15:42 and co-host of The Rest Is Politics.
0:15:46 Liberal democracies haven’t been delivering
0:15:47 well enough for people.
0:15:52 I mean, that for about 200 years from the early 1800s,
0:15:55 it, we could tell a story where we convinced ourselves
0:15:57 that democracies were naturally more prosperous
0:15:59 and as people became more prosperous,
0:16:01 they became more democratic.
0:16:04 And partly because of the rise of China,
0:16:06 but partly because the success
0:16:07 of other authoritarian regimes.
0:16:12 We’ve broken the link in which democracies
0:16:13 are not necessarily delivering for people.
0:16:15 And in certain years, it feels as though
0:16:18 non-democratic states are delivering quite effectively.
0:16:19 So that’s one problem.
0:16:22 I think second, and that is a big problem
0:16:25 because I think the reason why people buy into democracy
0:16:28 is not only because they believe in human rights
0:16:29 and liberal values, it’s also because
0:16:31 it was making them wealthier.
0:16:36 I think the second threat is, I’m afraid, social media.
0:16:40 I think it’s not a coincidence that the rise
0:16:42 of social media from 2003, four onwards
0:16:46 and its explosion with the Arab Spring in 2010, 2011
0:16:48 is part of the story of the rise of populism
0:16:50 and the rise of authoritarianism
0:16:52 because I think it, those are algorithms
0:16:56 that drive people into polarized states.
0:16:59 And I think they are, have been extremely bad
0:17:02 for the key bits of democratic discourse
0:17:06 in particular, compromise, meeting in the middle,
0:17:08 explaining, having a shared frame of reference.
0:17:13 – That was Rory Stewart and his thoughts on modern democracy.
0:17:15 And last but not least, let’s have a listen
0:17:17 to our episode with Angela Duckworth,
0:17:19 a professor of psychology at the University of Pennsylvania
0:17:22 and the author of The New York Times bestseller, GRIT,
0:17:24 The Power of Passion and Perseverance.
0:17:27 Angela shared the attributes of gritty people
0:17:29 and tips for raising resilient children.
0:17:33 – I think GRIT is forged in a crucible,
0:17:36 half of which is challenge.
0:17:37 I mean, what is challenge?
0:17:39 Challenge is being asked to do something
0:17:41 you cannot yet do, right?
0:17:43 You know, 2,000 meters instead of 800,
0:17:45 like whatever it is, right?
0:17:46 I can’t do it.
0:17:49 The challenges exceed my resources or my abilities.
0:17:51 So I think that is half of it.
0:17:52 But, you know, when Nietzsche said
0:17:55 “What doesn’t kill me makes me stronger,”
0:17:58 I mean, it does make you wonder, like, when you look around
0:18:03 and it does actually kill or seriously wound a lot of people.
0:18:06 And I think that’s because the other half of the crucible
0:18:09 and you can agree or disagree with me
0:18:11 is some kind of support.
0:18:16 Like, where does that inner self-talk come from
0:18:19 that says, you know, I’ll show you, right?
0:18:21 Because I think if there was one phrase
0:18:22 that I have heard over and over again
0:18:25 in interviews of the grittiest people,
0:18:29 it’s that when they describe confronting a major challenge,
0:18:32 especially when they’re doubted, right?
0:18:36 And someone else tells them, like, well, you can’t do this.
0:18:40 You know, there is this rage, this, like, voice that says,
0:18:41 I’ll show you.
0:18:45 And my theory is that being in one challenging situation
0:18:49 after another is not enough to give you the voice that says,
0:18:50 I’ll show you.
0:18:52 Somewhere, there has to be support.
0:18:54 Somewhere, there has to be a–
0:18:57 you know, like, I can’t remember Rocky’s coach,
0:18:58 like the guy with the, you know, the–
0:19:00 Burgess Meredith.
0:19:01 Exactly.
0:19:02 Right?
0:19:04 Sailor, you know, like the beanie on.
0:19:07 Like, I think I’ve seen it too often, you know,
0:19:09 that people who are in challenging situations
0:19:12 without support, you know, are not the ones to get up again,
0:19:15 dust themselves off, like, learn something, you know,
0:19:18 come back stronger than they were before.
0:19:21 All right, that’s a wrap on 2024.
0:19:25 Adios, Bente, Bente, Cuatro, 2024.
0:19:27 Jesus Christ, really?
0:19:27 It’s gone.
0:19:30 A big thank you to–
0:19:33 wait for it– you, our listeners,
0:19:35 for a great year.
0:19:39 This has been our best year ever on a number of dimensions.
0:19:41 But also, it’s been a rewarding year on a lot of levels.
0:19:43 A lot of nice people.
0:19:44 We’re paying our people well.
0:19:46 They’re doing well.
0:19:47 We’re growing.
0:19:49 Our people seem to appreciate our work.
0:19:50 I feel as if we’re having an impact.
0:19:52 I see people on the street, and they come up.
0:19:55 They’re super nice, made a bunch of new friends
0:19:56 because of the pod.
0:19:59 Anyways, emotional, psychological, economic reward,
0:20:01 having an impact, having purpose.
0:20:03 And it’s because people give us a shot.
0:20:04 People listen to us.
0:20:06 People provide us with thoughtful, civil feedback.
0:20:07 We get it wrong all the time.
0:20:10 I get it wrong more often than all the time.
0:20:12 And people are always generous with us.
0:20:15 And it’s very much appreciate not only your listenership
0:20:18 but your engagement and for the people who come up and say hi.
0:20:21 A special shout out is just wonderful for me.
0:20:22 It’s one of the nicest things that happens to me
0:20:24 on a regular basis.
0:20:25 Best to you and yours.
0:20:26 Thank you so much.
0:20:29 And here’s to a great 2024 and hoping for an even more
0:20:31 prosperous and healthy 2025.
0:20:34 [MUSIC PLAYING]
0:20:38 [MUSIC PLAYING]
0:20:41 [MUSIC PLAYING]
0:20:44 (gentle music)
0:20:54 [BLANK_AUDIO]
We’re listening back to some of our favorite conversations from the past year.
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