The Gray Area with Sean Illing
Games are fun. Aren’t they?
When we play games — board games, video games, any kind of game — something magical happens. Games allow us to explore, to create little worlds where we can be different versions of ourselves. But when we turn life into a game — where we have to get the best grade, or the most money, or the most “likes” — then games stop being fun. Why is that?
This week Sean speaks with philosopher C. Thi Nguyen about what a game really is, the difference between playing for enjoyment and playing to win, and why games lose their magic when the stakes become real.
Thi argues that the things we value in life are increasingly captured by grades and likes and downloads and step counts and a thousand other metrics that quietly rewrite what we want and what we think makes us happy.
Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling)
Guest: C. Thi Nguyen, author of The Score
We would love to hear from you. To tell us what you thought of this episode, email us at thegrayarea@vox.com or leave us a voicemail at 1-800-214-5749. Your comments and questions help us make a better show.
And you can watch new episodes of The Gray Area on YouTube.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A moment for silence
How often do you find silence? And do you know what to do with it when you do? Today’s guest is essayist and travel writer Pico Iyer. His latest book is Aflame: Learning From Silence,…
How to change your personality
If you could change anything about your personality, anything at all, what would it be? And why would you want to change it?Writer Olga Khazan spent a year trying to answer those questions, and documented…
Is ignorance truly bliss?
Are you ever happier not knowing something? As Aristotle famously claimed, “All human beings want to know.” But denial and avoidance are also human impulses. Sometimes they’re even more powerful than our curiosity. In this episode…
Is America broken?
What do you think of America’s institutions? Alana Newhouse, founder and editor-in-chief of Tablet Magazine, says that may be the most important political question in America. In an essay published more than two years ago,…
Do Americans have too much ‘me time?’
Americans are spending an historic amount of time alone, a phenomenon that is often referred to as an “epidemic of loneliness.” But are we actually lonely? Or do we prefer being by ourselves? And if…
Attention pays (with Chris Hayes)
Where is your attention right now? Where was it a minute ago? A second ago? Where will it be a minute from now? One of the primary features of this age — the age of…
How to be happy
What does it take to be happy? Professor of psychology Laurie Santos just might have the answer. This week The Gray Area takes a break from its regular programming to bring you an episode of…
The screens between us
What is the first thing that you touch in the morning? What about the last thing you touch before you go to sleep? For many of us, it’s our phone. Digital devices are with us…
The importance of failure
At the beginning of the new year, many of us make pledges to change ourselves. We want to work out more. Or read more. Or cook more. Within a few months, some of us will…
What to do with your sadness, pain, and grief
How can we find happiness? That’s an old question. Since the beginning of philosophy people have been wondering what makes us happy and how to get more of it. But if you’re a real person…
