AI transcript
0:00:02 (upbeat music)
0:00:15 – Welcome to Hustling Tech.
0:00:19 The show that helps you if you have ambition and drive
0:00:21 and need to get started,
0:00:23 get into the tech world
0:00:27 and take advantage of the opportunities.
0:00:32 Today with us we have Iman who is CEO of Incredible Health
0:00:37 and Stephanie who is a hustler on the platform.
0:00:41 Now also with me is my co-host as always Shaka Senghor
0:00:43 who hustled his way out of the joint
0:00:46 and became a bestselling author
0:00:48 and all kinds of other stuff.
0:00:49 – So we’re excited to talk to you all today
0:00:52 about all the amazing things that you all have been doing.
0:00:55 I think that the first question I have is like,
0:00:56 what was your why?
0:00:59 So my why, so by background, I’m a medical doctor.
0:01:01 I don’t practice at all anymore.
0:01:02 A lot of my family members and friends
0:01:04 are doctors and surgeons
0:01:07 and they were often complaining about understaffing,
0:01:09 especially not having enough nurses on the floor,
0:01:13 not wanting to rely on travel nurses or contract nurses
0:01:14 to take care of their patients.
0:01:17 And then at the same time, my co-founder, Rome Portlock,
0:01:19 he’s a software engineer from MIT.
0:01:21 He’s been building software for 15, 20 years
0:01:23 with sisters or nurses.
0:01:25 And even though they’re experienced and qualified,
0:01:27 they’re saying it still takes me at least two,
0:01:29 three months to get my next job.
0:01:32 And we’re like, okay, this doesn’t make any sense.
0:01:35 And what we discovered is a lot of the processes,
0:01:39 the tools, the software that HR teams at hospitals
0:01:41 are using are very outdated.
0:01:43 They haven’t actually changed since,
0:01:45 I don’t know, late ’80s, early ’90s.
0:01:47 We figured there just has to be a better way.
0:01:51 Incredible Health is the fastest growing hiring platform
0:01:53 for nurses in the US today.
0:01:55 Hospitals and health systems use the platform
0:01:59 to hire nurses in permanent roles in less than 30 days
0:02:01 instead of it taking 90 days or longer.
0:02:05 – Wow, and why did you do it the way you did
0:02:06 instead of just saying, okay,
0:02:08 well, build software for hospitals
0:02:09 or something like that?
0:02:10 Why did you– – I think there were a couple
0:02:13 of reasons why we took a more comprehensive approach.
0:02:16 One is we understood the market
0:02:18 and there’s some fundamental problems
0:02:19 like the nursing shortage.
0:02:21 And to put it in context,
0:02:22 that shortage is three times bigger
0:02:24 than the software engineering shortage.
0:02:28 And so our demand for healthcare keeps going up,
0:02:29 but there are just simply not enough
0:02:31 healthcare workers in the system.
0:02:34 – How do we land here where, like, what is the–
0:02:35 – They’re not paying enough.
0:02:36 – Yeah, they’re not paying enough, yeah.
0:02:40 – Yeah, there’s probably two bottlenecks.
0:02:42 The first is the number of people
0:02:44 getting accepted to nursing schools.
0:02:46 – Nursing school is very competitive.
0:02:48 It has a lot of wait lists.
0:02:50 Once you apply to go into the nursing school,
0:02:53 you’re not guaranteed to get in immediately.
0:02:54 You have to go through some process.
0:02:55 You have to wait.
0:02:59 So that’s why we have such shortage.
0:03:00 – And then the other big huge bottleneck
0:03:03 is what happens right after nursing school.
0:03:06 So unlike doctors, we have residency programs,
0:03:10 honestly, that are mostly funded by the government.
0:03:11 But when it comes to training nurses,
0:03:14 it’s the hospitals that bear the majority of that cost.
0:03:18 And so they don’t always see a strong ROI
0:03:19 on those training programs
0:03:21 because nurses go through it
0:03:23 and then they often leave
0:03:26 because they’re next opportunity.
0:03:29 So it is actually quite hard for a new graduate nurse
0:03:30 to land their first job.
0:03:33 They have to be very geographically flexible
0:03:34 in order to do that.
0:03:36 No, once you’re at a Stephanie stage,
0:03:38 when you have a few years under your belt,
0:03:40 and that is a sweet spot,
0:03:44 where if you have one or two years of experience,
0:03:46 you’re pursuing a specialty already,
0:03:51 you will get a job very quickly on our platform.
0:03:52 – Oh, wow.
0:03:54 So how long have you been a nurse, Stephanie?
0:03:55 – For three years now.
0:03:57 – Well, it started at the beginning.
0:03:58 – Well, I’m Nigerian.
0:04:02 I grew up in Nigeria, most of my adulthood,
0:04:04 and I left Nigeria at the age of 19.
0:04:07 There are two reasons that pushed me to become a nurse today.
0:04:11 The first one was I was sick back home in Nigeria,
0:04:13 and I had surgery.
0:04:17 It was appendix, just a minor surgery,
0:04:19 but it ruptured.
0:04:23 And I developed sort of an infection,
0:04:26 and they were incapable of handling it,
0:04:29 and it went to a point where I almost lost my life.
0:04:32 So the reason why I’m actually sitting
0:04:35 and talking to you guys is because my mom actually
0:04:38 walked with a doctor that she could rely on,
0:04:41 and she had to look for him to perform the surgery for me.
0:04:44 And that’s really saved my life.
0:04:47 So that was one of the reasons I decided to become a nurse.
0:04:49 And the second reason was
0:04:51 I didn’t immediately push through the nursing career.
0:04:53 I went into business
0:04:56 because I wanted to help my dad out in his business.
0:04:59 So that’s why I went into business administration.
0:05:01 But I was like, I’m not doing this for myself.
0:05:03 I need to do something for me.
0:05:06 And what triggered it was when I was doing my dissertation
0:05:09 in one of the biggest hospitals in Malta.
0:05:11 It’s called Matter Day.
0:05:14 I was able to communicate with nurses and doctors,
0:05:18 and I was like, no, this is where I belong.
0:05:21 So that was where I decided I was going to go into nursing.
0:05:22 I called my brother.
0:05:23 My brother was here.
0:05:25 He’s been here in America for the longest.
0:05:27 So he told me, oh, if you want to do nursing,
0:05:29 come to America and do it.
0:05:31 And that was where I started.
0:05:34 Like I came over, I started with cancers
0:05:35 where I did my pre-nursing,
0:05:39 and then I moved over to Atlanta, Georgia,
0:05:41 where I finished up the nursing school,
0:05:44 and I started walking at Northside Hospital Atlanta.
0:05:47 And then I finally moved here to California.
0:05:50 And the nursing program, it was difficult to get in.
0:05:50 I will not lie.
0:05:53 It was very difficult to get into the program.
0:05:55 And what made it difficult?
0:05:58 Was it the process was difficult?
0:05:59 The process was difficult.
0:06:00 There are a lot of waiting lists.
0:06:04 So you can imagine applying Wednesday’s waiting list.
0:06:07 So they go for those who are in the waiting list before you.
0:06:12 I actually stayed home one more year after my prerequisites.
0:06:13 And then when it was time for me,
0:06:17 I started at Chamberlain College of Nursing in Atlanta, Georgia,
0:06:21 because I just moved to California three months ago.
0:06:24 And then I stayed there for two years.
0:06:26 It was very–
0:06:29 nursing school is very chaotic.
0:06:31 We go through a lot.
0:06:33 I nearly gave up.
0:06:36 I nearly gave up nursing school.
0:06:39 I don’t know how to explain it, but it’s difficult.
0:06:41 Not everybody goes in that comes out.
0:06:46 I started with a lot of friends, and a lot of them left.
0:06:48 So that could be another reason to get away.
0:06:50 We’re having the nursing shortage,
0:06:54 because they make it very, very rigorous.
0:06:57 It makes sense once you get into the nursing itself,
0:06:59 because they’re training you to take care
0:07:01 of these critically ill patients.
0:07:04 So you have to meet up to that standard.
0:07:07 That’s why they really screen us in school.
0:07:09 The other thing, it’s a regulated profession.
0:07:12 So just like many other health care professions,
0:07:16 you have to have licenses, you have to have certain certifications.
0:07:17 Makes sense.
0:07:21 Yeah, so the regulation part, who puts the cost of getting
0:07:22 the licenses and all that?
0:07:26 Is that on the student nurse, or is it some type of stipend?
0:07:28 How does that work out?
0:07:31 The hospital I applied to, where I got my first nursing job,
0:07:33 paid for it.
0:07:36 So that was OK by me.
0:07:39 I got the job before I graduated.
0:07:41 So they told me, oh, they’re going to pay for it,
0:07:43 as long as you pass the boards.
0:07:46 So I paid, and they funded it back to me.
0:07:48 But Stephanie was in the fortunate position
0:07:50 of having the job already lined up.
0:07:52 So now, if you don’t have a job lined up,
0:07:54 many nurses have to pay out of pocket.
0:07:58 So before I found incredible health,
0:08:00 I decided I was going to move to California
0:08:02 to be close to family.
0:08:07 I was putting in my application in so many hospitals,
0:08:09 and I didn’t get any callback.
0:08:11 I just get this automated email saying,
0:08:14 oh, unfortunately, we consider other candidates.
0:08:16 It’s not that you are not qualified,
0:08:19 but there were too many people that applied.
0:08:22 Which is pretty weird, given there’s a nursing school.
0:08:25 Those same hospitals, you find them looking for nurses
0:08:26 to work for them.
0:08:30 So I didn’t just understand why that was happening.
0:08:32 So it was my brother that told me to try it.
0:08:35 So I just filled in my application with incredible health,
0:08:39 and I just got a call immediately,
0:08:43 and they told me, oh, this is how it works.
0:08:45 And once any hospital is interested in you,
0:08:48 they will send a message, you just respond,
0:08:52 and it was kind of like an easy way
0:08:55 and different process applying to hospitals.
0:08:57 The employers are coming for you,
0:08:59 not you going to them, they’re chasing you.
0:09:01 – So you’re an NBA player at the end.
0:09:03 – Exactly, exactly.
0:09:05 The employers apply to the nurses
0:09:07 instead of waiting for the nurses to apply to them.
0:09:08 – Yes. – No, that’s awesome.
0:09:13 – So with that model, do you end up at different hospitals
0:09:17 or private practice, how does that work, the model itself?
0:09:20 – So you have a lot of hospitals applying to you.
0:09:22 So you have that opportunity to be like,
0:09:25 oh, no, I don’t want this one, I want this one.
0:09:26 That’s what I was doing.
0:09:28 I had lots of hospitals that wanted
0:09:29 to have an interview with me,
0:09:33 but I already had the list of hospitals I wanted to go for,
0:09:35 and those are the ones I selected.
0:09:40 So you just as an advantage to choose what you really want.
0:09:42 – Yeah, so when a nurse, we say,
0:09:45 when a nurse goes live on our platform,
0:09:46 means they’re actively looking,
0:09:48 actually within days,
0:09:50 they can get several interview requests
0:09:51 from multiple hospitals.
0:09:53 And then we give them three days,
0:09:56 which interviews to accept and which ones to decline.
0:09:58 For those that get accepted,
0:10:01 our software also facilitates that first phone screen
0:10:03 with a recruiter, and we also,
0:10:05 our customer support team supports both the nurse
0:10:07 and the recruiter through the end,
0:10:08 all the way to the end of the process.
0:10:10 So no one gets dropped in the funnel.
0:10:13 – So in my source, that means that on any given week,
0:10:15 you can be at different hospitals.
0:10:16 Like, is that how it works?
0:10:18 What I’m getting at is,
0:10:20 so once that process happens, you get accepted,
0:10:24 can you work for this hospital today, Tuesday, Wednesday?
0:10:26 Am I at another hospital next week?
0:10:27 Like, does it work like that?
0:10:29 Or is it like, this is my place,
0:10:30 this is where I’ll be working for?
0:10:31 – Yeah, great question.
0:10:33 The nurses on our platform are getting hired
0:10:36 for, you know, as employees at the hospitals.
0:10:40 We’ve intentionally stayed away from contract work
0:10:42 and temporary labor,
0:10:45 because honestly, that’s not what the hospitals want.
0:10:47 They’re urgently looking for permanent labor.
0:10:48 And then the other thing we guarantee,
0:10:50 both to the nurses and the hospitals,
0:10:52 is hires in less than 30 days.
0:10:55 The average on the market is 82 days.
0:10:59 So we really dramatically try to bring down
0:11:01 that days to fill to less than 30 days.
0:11:02 – That’s amazing.
0:11:04 – I mean, I just think it’s really so interesting
0:11:07 that because of the struggles that so many communities go to
0:11:09 just to get quality healthcare.
0:11:11 So I think, you know, having something that’s bridging
0:11:13 that gap, how has it been received in the industry though?
0:11:16 Like, what has the response and reaction been?
0:11:18 – It’s been extremely positive.
0:11:20 When we started, we were just in California
0:11:22 and we’re currently expanding nationally.
0:11:25 So we work with all the top academic medical centers
0:11:26 like Stanford and Cedar Sinai.
0:11:28 Stephanie actually got her job at Stanford.
0:11:30 She’s at the brand new hospital here.
0:11:31 – All right, all right.
0:11:35 Yeah, so they, you know, my partner, Mark Andreessen,
0:11:38 his wife donated the Stanford emergency room.
0:11:41 Andreessen Ariaga emergency room.
0:11:42 – That’s awesome.
0:11:44 We work with all the big health systems
0:11:47 like HCA and Tenant and Providence St. Joseph
0:11:50 and lots of community hospitals too.
0:11:53 And so we really perfected the platform
0:11:55 and our processes here in California first.
0:11:58 And then a few months ago started to expand nationally.
0:12:00 And so now we have help, academic medical centers,
0:12:02 big health systems and community hospitals
0:12:04 and other parts of the country too.
0:12:07 – Now that you’ve got kind of the marketplace up and running,
0:12:10 generally, you know, we analyze marketplaces.
0:12:13 We always talk in terms of kind of supply and demand.
0:12:15 And like, where do you have the bottleneck?
0:12:18 And it seems like given there’s a nursing shortage,
0:12:21 you’re gonna, getting nurses is always gonna be
0:12:24 a little harder than getting hospitals, I would think.
0:12:25 Is that right?
0:12:25 – That’s right, yeah.
0:12:28 – And so how do you think, you know,
0:12:30 how do you think about that as things evolve
0:12:34 and what your role is in kind of getting more nurses
0:12:35 into the market?
0:12:37 – Yeah, I mean, in terms of getting the nurses
0:12:40 on our platform, all of it really starts with our mission
0:12:42 and the mission is to help healthcare professionals
0:12:44 live better lives and help them find
0:12:45 and do their best work.
0:12:47 In general, this is a group that isn’t,
0:12:51 this group of workers that’s not treated particularly well.
0:12:52 You know, there’s a lot of burnout.
0:12:56 So we wanted to be the one company and service
0:12:58 and platform out there that’s giving them
0:13:00 the best experience possible.
0:13:03 And so really that’s like the core of what attracts
0:13:05 the nurses to the platform is that very strong value
0:13:08 proposition that, hey, create a profile,
0:13:10 sit back and relax, hospitals will apply to you.
0:13:14 And now in terms of that, that actual messaging
0:13:16 and how it gets out, it’s a really a combination
0:13:18 of marketing and product.
0:13:20 What we’re doing on our platform is we’re also providing
0:13:23 a whole suite of free tools and software for nurses too.
0:13:27 So salary calculators and, you know,
0:13:29 completely free continuing education
0:13:31 that’s paid for by Incredible Health.
0:13:32 Where they can–
0:13:34 – So you can go from being like an LVN to an RN
0:13:35 and that kind of thing.
0:13:38 – Yeah, so that’s, and then the other thing is really
0:13:39 building community around this,
0:13:43 both offline community of nurses and also, you know,
0:13:45 creating more of an online community for nurses as well.
0:13:47 So there’s one place that they can congregate.
0:13:49 – Yeah, Stephanie, when you first,
0:13:51 when your brother introduced you to it,
0:13:53 like, how did you approach it?
0:13:54 So he comes to you and is like,
0:13:57 hey, here’s an opportunity, let me get you in the game.
0:14:00 Like, what was that, what was your initial reaction
0:14:03 to the introduction to the platform?
0:14:06 – It was different and I was like,
0:14:09 I was like, I want to see what this is all about.
0:14:13 And that was where I got to see it’s a better way
0:14:17 to like get nurses to get job faster.
0:14:19 And I was really impressed with it.
0:14:22 So that’s why a lot of my friends, nurses,
0:14:25 that are in Atlanta, Georgia that have plans to come over,
0:14:28 everybody’s looking forward to using it
0:14:30 because it’s just easy.
0:14:34 And you don’t have to like deal with the long wait,
0:14:37 the rejection emails that are automated.
0:14:42 You’re not like communicating with the hospital
0:14:44 on how to get your interview set up.
0:14:46 They are doing it for you.
0:14:47 All you just need to do is to get the dates
0:14:49 that is convenient for you and just show up
0:14:50 for your interview.
0:14:52 It was stress free, hustle free.
0:14:53 – And what does that look like?
0:14:55 Like in terms of the continuing education,
0:14:58 I’m always interested in different ways to learn.
0:15:00 So what does that look like on a platform?
0:15:03 – Yeah, so nurses annually have to get
0:15:06 continuing education like credits or units.
0:15:09 And that’s to maintain their specialization
0:15:11 or maintain their experience.
0:15:15 And in some cases, to get a specific state license,
0:15:16 you need to have a certain number
0:15:18 of continuing education like credits basically.
0:15:21 And a lot of these are online courses actually,
0:15:23 and they’re across different topics.
0:15:26 You know, we can cost hundreds of dollars a year.
0:15:28 And so we’re just bearing that cost for nurses.
0:15:30 Whether they’re using our platform
0:15:31 for getting a job or not,
0:15:32 it’s gonna be available to all nurses.
0:15:34 – So it sounds like it’s almost like
0:15:39 you are kind of CAA for nurses.
0:15:43 Which is Creative Artist Agency,
0:15:46 which is one of the biggest talent agencies in the world.
0:15:49 And so when you do that,
0:15:54 do you start to think about an individual nurse’s profile
0:15:56 and reputation so that you can market them better?
0:15:57 Or how do you approach that?
0:16:00 – Yeah, we spend a lot of time thinking
0:16:02 and working on improving nurse profiles.
0:16:05 And it’s everything from the actual profile itself
0:16:07 and the different fields that we’re collecting,
0:16:11 ’cause we are automatically with a lot of software screening
0:16:12 and matching them as well.
0:16:15 So this isn’t humans doing it, it’s all software doing it.
0:16:16 ‘Cause if you’re a recruiter,
0:16:18 you don’t want to log in and see 200 nurses.
0:16:20 You want to see 14 that are the right fit
0:16:22 for you at that time.
0:16:24 And that saves them a considerable amount of time too.
0:16:28 – And ’cause a nurse has got to have a specialization
0:16:30 and a location and some kind of background
0:16:32 for that to be a fit, okay.
0:16:35 – We’re matching on probably 40 or 50 different attributes.
0:16:36 Some of the attributes are things
0:16:39 like specialty licenses, certifications,
0:16:42 location preference, commute times.
0:16:44 And then in addition to the profile,
0:16:46 we’re also providing interview preparation too.
0:16:49 – You also apply this to like dating apps.
0:16:51 – So it’s funny you say that.
0:16:53 So chief nursing officers refer to us
0:16:55 as the match.com of hospitals and nurses,
0:16:58 which is kind of embarrassing, but it’s accurate too.
0:17:02 – So Stephanie, so listen to like the kind of the profile
0:17:04 and breakdown of like the matching process.
0:17:06 Like what were some of the things specifically
0:17:08 that you had to kind of share to figure out
0:17:10 how you matched up with the people
0:17:12 who you was looking to be hired by?
0:17:16 – So I was looking at my commute and the,
0:17:18 ’cause I wanted something in the Bay Area.
0:17:23 So I chose something I can, a place I can drive to.
0:17:24 I don’t need to drive more than 30 minutes.
0:17:26 That was my goal.
0:17:29 And that was one of the reasons I chose Stanford.
0:17:33 And I also chose Stanford because of the reputation
0:17:35 and the experiences there too.
0:17:40 So those were part of the, those were part of my selections.
0:17:40 – Yeah, I mean,
0:17:42 one of our goals is the nurse has no idea
0:17:44 what’s going on behind the scenes
0:17:46 when it comes to screening and matching.
0:17:49 And it just seems like a magical process.
0:17:50 – Well, that’s why the rejection letters.
0:17:53 You’re rejected, you’re qualified,
0:17:57 but you don’t match on some criteria
0:17:59 that you don’t know about.
0:18:01 And so that’s, okay, so that’s really interesting.
0:18:04 And then if somebody does an interview
0:18:06 and doesn’t get the job,
0:18:09 is there a feedback process for how does that work?
0:18:11 – Anytime a nurse doesn’t proceed in the hiring process,
0:18:14 we, we’re, you know, recruiters are able to enter
0:18:16 the reasons why they were not hired.
0:18:19 And each nurse on our platform is paired
0:18:21 with what we call a talent advocate.
0:18:23 These are members of our team.
0:18:25 They are all RNs as well.
0:18:28 And I think of them as like advocates
0:18:30 or career coaches for every nurse.
0:18:32 So that’s like a, also like a free service
0:18:34 that we provide to the nurses too.
0:18:38 – So one day every hospital in America
0:18:40 and every nurse is going to be on the platform.
0:18:43 What can you do at that point?
0:18:45 – So number one we talked about was the shortage.
0:18:47 And then the other one is just the inefficiency
0:18:48 in the market, like the right, you know,
0:18:52 the hospitals and nurses aren’t even finding each other.
0:18:53 A lot of what we’ve built so far
0:18:55 and what we’ve worked on so far
0:18:57 is to solve the inefficiency problem, right?
0:18:58 How do we get the right nurses
0:19:00 at the right hospitals quickly?
0:19:03 – Right, and that actually addresses the shortage
0:19:06 in many ways in that it’s not just
0:19:09 that the nurses and theorists said you can’t find them.
0:19:12 – Correct, yeah, it’s like ships passing each other
0:19:15 through the night, like they just don’t find each other.
0:19:20 And in terms of solving the actual underlying
0:19:23 nursing shortage, honestly, I know it’s something
0:19:25 we want to tackle because it’s part of our mission
0:19:26 and our vision.
0:19:28 I don’t know exactly how that’s going to look like yet.
0:19:32 One of the interesting pieces of the story of CAA is
0:19:36 before CAA, top actor or actress would make, you know,
0:19:39 maybe $500,000 on a film.
0:19:43 After CAA, 20 million, why?
0:19:48 Because every top actress and actor in the late 80s
0:19:51 was on the CAA platform.
0:19:54 So they could basically say you can’t make a movie
0:19:58 without us and the economics switched and flipped around
0:20:01 and put the power in the hands of the people
0:20:03 making the movies and in healthcare.
0:20:06 I mean, I know this just ’cause, you know,
0:20:10 my mother was a nurse, nurses are actually way more important
0:20:14 than the hospital hierarchy treats them often.
0:20:15 – Yeah.
0:20:16 – And that actually has more variance in your outcome
0:20:17 than anything.
0:20:22 So do you see a time in the future where by having
0:20:25 all the nurses collectively together,
0:20:29 you can actually make the profession more attractive?
0:20:29 – We’re already seeing that.
0:20:32 So on average on our platform,
0:20:35 the nurses salary increases by 17%
0:20:37 and commute time goes down by 15%.
0:20:41 There’s actually several reasons why nurses change jobs.
0:20:43 One reason is I want to get paid more.
0:20:45 Another is I want to shorten my commute time.
0:20:47 Another is I want to advance my career
0:20:48 and I want to get more skills
0:20:50 in a particular specialty area.
0:20:52 And then a fourth one is just I need to relocate
0:20:53 for whatever reason, like,
0:20:55 Stephanie probably had like, what,
0:20:56 two or three of those are valid.
0:20:57 – All of them.
0:20:59 All of the above.
0:21:01 – Advance my career I needed to experience too
0:21:02 and know that.
0:21:04 – So what we’re seeing in the marketplace dynamic is like,
0:21:07 yeah, overall, like the salaries are skewing higher
0:21:11 because well, if you’re an OR nurse in the Bay Area,
0:21:13 for example, or an LA,
0:21:16 every single hospital has that shortage.
0:21:18 So you can, you have the opportunity to optimize.
0:21:20 – And you can leverage that knowledge, right?
0:21:21 – Yeah, exactly.
0:21:21 – That’s incredible.
0:21:24 – And one of the things I’m always interested in
0:21:27 when, you know, talking to entrepreneurs is that leap,
0:21:28 that leap of faith.
0:21:31 What did it take for you to take that leap
0:21:34 from doctor to entrepreneur?
0:21:37 And were there moments where you were a little bit hesitant
0:21:39 or afraid or were you just like,
0:21:41 no, I want to just do this and make this thing happen?
0:21:45 – Yeah, and like dealing with, I’m going to build software.
0:21:46 – So we’re talking about 10 years
0:21:49 from the time I decided to not,
0:21:50 from the time I graduated from medical school
0:21:52 and decided not to do residency
0:21:54 to the time I founded Incredible Health.
0:21:57 So during that time, I had worked in management consulting.
0:22:00 I was exposed to hospital operations and strategy.
0:22:03 I had done my MBA at Wharton on the East Coast.
0:22:07 And then during that time in business schools,
0:22:09 where I was really starting to get more exposed
0:22:10 to entrepreneurs ’cause a lot of my classmates
0:22:13 were founders and CEOs.
0:22:15 And then the other thing is starting a business
0:22:18 is something I’ve always kind of had in the back of my mind
0:22:19 for a very long time.
0:22:21 Both my grandfathers are entrepreneurs.
0:22:23 I’m originally from Sudan.
0:22:27 And so yeah, I got some health hustlers in my family, right?
0:22:30 But I knew I needed to, like all the stars
0:22:33 need to align before you take the dive, right?
0:22:36 So I knew I needed to move to the Bay Area
0:22:37 because this is controversial,
0:22:39 but it still hands down the best place in the world
0:22:40 to build a technology company.
0:22:41 – No question, yeah.
0:22:43 – I needed to have the right co-founder.
0:22:45 When I moved out to the Bay Area,
0:22:47 I didn’t know anything about software.
0:22:49 I didn’t know anything about how to build a product
0:22:51 or ship or anything.
0:22:55 So I actually got, my first job was as a product manager
0:22:57 at an early stage healthcare technology company
0:22:58 in the Bay Area.
0:23:00 And that’s really where I learned to work
0:23:02 with software engineers and designers and data scientists
0:23:05 and what it takes to launch a product and grow a business.
0:23:06 And so after a couple of years of that,
0:23:09 left with one of the lead software engineers,
0:23:12 Rome, who’s my current co-founder, to work on this.
0:23:14 And so like multiple things had to come together
0:23:15 for me to make that decision.
0:23:17 So I needed to have the right co-founder.
0:23:19 I needs to be in the right location.
0:23:21 Honestly, I needed to have enough savings.
0:23:23 And of course I needed to have the right idea
0:23:24 and the right opportunity.
0:23:25 – Right.
0:23:29 Yeah, that’s a really great insight understanding
0:23:30 that you had.
0:23:35 You know, we see a lot of entrepreneurs who have an idea,
0:23:38 but not the skillset to go pursue that idea
0:23:42 and the fact that you recognized, okay.
0:23:44 Not only do I need the skillset,
0:23:45 and you not only got the skillset,
0:23:48 but you got the network to put together the team
0:23:50 to build the company that was gonna work.
0:23:52 That’s really impressive.
0:23:54 – So one of the things that when we started the conversation,
0:23:56 we talked about kind of like origins, right?
0:23:58 So you’re from your family’s from the Sudan
0:24:00 and your family’s from Nigeria.
0:24:02 I just came back from Makaragana.
0:24:06 And one of the things that I loved was just like the hustle
0:24:08 and just seeing people that was like,
0:24:09 no matter what the circumstance were,
0:24:11 they was gonna figure out how to get out there
0:24:12 and make it happen.
0:24:16 How much of that plays a role in where you are today?
0:24:17 And that’s for like both of y’all.
0:24:19 Like how much of that play a role?
0:24:22 – Well, I came from a hustling family.
0:24:26 My dad is a hustler and he brought us up to hustle.
0:24:28 Like you have to take care of yourself
0:24:30 and you have to take care of those around you.
0:24:32 So we always hustle.
0:24:34 And one of the way he taught us how to hustle
0:24:37 is by going to school.
0:24:40 He made sure we go to school and he always tells us,
0:24:42 you do not have to stop at the square cop,
0:24:44 you need the round cap.
0:24:49 So he was always bent on pushing us to advance our career
0:24:52 and do good for yourself.
0:24:54 – Similarly, my family, my Sudanese family
0:24:57 has had similar values in that you gotta pursue education,
0:24:59 you gotta do your best.
0:25:00 No matter what field you go into,
0:25:02 you just need to aim to be the best.
0:25:05 And no matter what it takes, whatever hurdles you face,
0:25:07 like you just have to overcome them.
0:25:10 And that has played out, I’m one of five siblings.
0:25:12 So that has definitely played out
0:25:14 and they’re all thankfully doing great.
0:25:17 You know, a lot of things that get people caught up,
0:25:19 a lot of just listening to your stories,
0:25:20 to have both of your stories,
0:25:23 you know, if something goes wrong
0:25:26 or you get rejected from a job and so forth,
0:25:29 a lot of times people here will interpret that as,
0:25:32 okay, that must have been something like,
0:25:35 you know, that systemically the country
0:25:37 is set up to stop me.
0:25:40 But neither of you had, I mean, whatever that was,
0:25:42 you just dusted it off.
0:25:43 How are you able to do that?
0:25:47 Because it is kind of a cultural outlier.
0:25:49 Yeah, great, that’s a good question.
0:25:51 Okay, so I’ll take the specific example
0:25:53 of raising venture capital.
0:25:56 When you look at the statistics,
0:26:00 it’s proven pretty much that the odds are stacked
0:26:02 against people who look like me, right?
0:26:03 And are your gender.
0:26:06 And yes, my gender and the fact that I’m a minority.
0:26:10 Black women raise 0.01% of the venture capital.
0:26:13 Yeah, that’s zero, that’s approximately zero.
0:26:17 Now, when I’m talking to other CEOs about this,
0:26:19 especially CEOs that look like me,
0:26:21 I’m like, okay, that’s what’s happening behind the scenes
0:26:23 and that’s what the data shows.
0:26:26 But you actually have to ignore that information.
0:26:28 You have to completely ignore it
0:26:30 and pretend it’s like not even there.
0:26:33 It’s a psychological web, right, and a trap.
0:26:38 So when you’re going into, you know, a fancy VC firm
0:26:41 and you walk in that room,
0:26:43 you have to be the way you communicate.
0:26:45 Your assertiveness needs to be the same
0:26:48 as your white male counterpart
0:26:51 that came in the room actually minutes before you probably,
0:26:54 right, and you have to match that level of confidence
0:26:58 and assertiveness in order to get like the term sheet.
0:27:00 So you really collect,
0:27:03 basically you just have to ignore all of that.
0:27:05 It’s still true, you know, like I still acknowledge
0:27:06 that it’s there, but.
0:27:08 But if you get it in your head,
0:27:09 then it’s definitely stopping you.
0:27:10 – Exactly.
0:27:13 – And what I see is that you need like a hundred percent
0:27:17 substance and competence
0:27:19 and then you also need a hundred percent confidence, right?
0:27:22 You need both, both are, both of those are required
0:27:24 if you’re going to do something that’s crazy ambitious
0:27:27 and probably the number one piece of advice
0:27:29 that I do give to minority CEOs is like, yeah,
0:27:31 you’ve got a hundred percent substance,
0:27:35 but like your confidence is only at like 40%.
0:27:37 That’s not, you’re not going to get that far.
0:27:39 You need to, you know, bump that up to a hundred percent.
0:27:42 – How do you teach people to get their confidence
0:27:43 where it needs to be?
0:27:46 Because that’s so easy to fall into that.
0:27:49 Well, they really didn’t understand me.
0:27:50 They really didn’t see me.
0:27:54 They, and like, how do you get people to get in that mindset
0:27:56 where they can cross that chasm?
0:28:00 And, and even racism aside,
0:28:03 just there is like a cultural bridge
0:28:05 that you have to cross getting into like high finance world.
0:28:08 – Yep, this is the hack I used.
0:28:11 I don’t need it anymore, but I used it in the beginning.
0:28:13 It’s very controversial.
0:28:14 (laughing)
0:28:15 – I love controversy.
0:28:16 Say more, say more.
0:28:17 – Let’s go with the controversy.
0:28:19 – So when I was first starting, you know,
0:28:21 raising that seed round or whatever,
0:28:24 I created like an alter ego for myself.
0:28:26 – Ah, all right.
0:28:27 – And the alter ego, okay.
0:28:28 – Who’s the alter ego?
0:28:30 – The alter ego is named Chad.
0:28:31 – That’s a very white name.
0:28:32 – Very. – Right.
0:28:35 – And Chad had a whole persona.
0:28:39 Like Chad was six feet tall, blonde hair, blue eyed.
0:28:42 Last four generations went to the Ivy League,
0:28:46 went to like Phillips Exeter or Hanover for high school.
0:28:46 – Yeah, yeah, I’ve heard of those.
0:28:49 – You know, just like the epitome of American privilege, right?
0:28:51 And when I was like, before I walk into that room,
0:28:55 and by the way, this is any situation where I’m selling
0:28:57 and CEOs have to sell a lot to investors,
0:28:59 to employees, to customers.
0:29:02 I’d be like, okay, for the next 60 minutes,
0:29:04 I’m not gonna be a man with like 30 years of baggage and,
0:29:08 you know, I’m just gonna be Chad for the next 60 minutes.
0:29:10 And you walk in the room and just act, what would,
0:29:12 you know, what would Chad do?
0:29:13 What would Chad say?
0:29:14 – Of course you’re giving me the money.
0:29:15 I’m Chad.
0:29:16 – Yeah, exactly, like Chad walks.
0:29:17 – Do you know where I went to school, bro?
0:29:19 – Exactly, Chad walks into the room,
0:29:23 like not only does he have insane amount of confidence,
0:29:24 like he owns that entire room,
0:29:26 he owns the entire block, right?
0:29:30 And so, you know, now I don’t need,
0:29:32 now Chad and he man have become one, right?
0:29:34 Like I don’t need the alter ego anymore,
0:29:38 but like when I was starting out, like it helped.
0:29:40 – See what’s so amazing is that you said,
0:29:43 I need that, as opposed to, that’s unfair.
0:29:45 – Yeah, I mean, it’s, you know,
0:29:48 I think about my life choices,
0:29:50 I realized most of it was choices.
0:29:52 And like I can choose how I want to show up in the world.
0:29:54 And it’s one of the things that,
0:29:57 like we really connect around, it’s just like,
0:29:59 if you’re an entrepreneur, like you’re an entrepreneur,
0:30:01 it doesn’t matter if you’re a black, white, ex-convict,
0:30:03 whatever, like those are,
0:30:06 that’s like the core of like your driver.
0:30:08 And I mean, I ran into every type of this,
0:30:10 I literally have every built in excuse
0:30:14 you can imagine one human being having, right?
0:30:15 But for me, I always just saw that as like,
0:30:18 how do you just show up in the world?
0:30:19 Like my alter ego is a rapper.
0:30:22 I grew up with hip hop from the beginning, right?
0:30:24 So when you listen to like the Sugar Hill gang,
0:30:27 and they would tell these just fantastical ass stories,
0:30:30 and you know, they probably still sleeping
0:30:31 on their grandma’s couch.
0:30:34 And then that started becoming reality
0:30:38 as rappers began to understand they can, you know,
0:30:41 monetize their skill set in a different way, right?
0:30:44 And so for me, it’s just like in order to get from,
0:30:46 you know, just making a record to like,
0:30:49 turn it into a business and just hustling, you know,
0:30:51 you got to work in different ways.
0:30:53 Like I’m like, okay, that mentality works,
0:30:57 but also they were telling our story.
0:30:58 You know, if you listen to like the rappers
0:31:00 who are hustlers, they’re talking about
0:31:01 the guys in the streets, you know,
0:31:03 but they monetized it in a way
0:31:05 that accelerated beyond the street.
0:31:08 So for me, it was just like tapping into that identity
0:31:10 of like, okay, I’ve done this before.
0:31:12 I’ve done it, but it was all the wrong product.
0:31:13 You know, all the things that come with that.
0:31:16 So for me to walk into a meeting with somebody
0:31:18 and say, hey, I got this idea, you know,
0:31:20 here’s what I’m trying to create or whatever,
0:31:24 like that’s small things to overcome, you know,
0:31:27 but the conversation internally is,
0:31:29 ’cause those voices of doubt never go,
0:31:30 at least for me, they never go away.
0:31:32 So it’s always like, how do I counter it, right?
0:31:33 How do you counter the voice?
0:31:34 It’s like, you’re not good enough
0:31:36 for this is going to stand in your way
0:31:38 or that’s going to stop you.
0:31:39 Sometimes you got to get out of your own head.
0:31:43 You got to get out of how that internal dialogue
0:31:45 can be disruptive when it comes to like
0:31:47 stepping over those bridges and gaps.
0:31:49 And so Stephanie, what’s your alter ego?
0:31:50 (laughing)
0:31:51 Like super-nurse?
0:31:52 – I don’t need an alter ego.
0:31:54 But I don’t have an alter ego.
0:31:57 I just be like, I just bring myself out
0:31:59 and I don’t see the fact that I’m a black woman.
0:32:01 I just see myself as this human being
0:32:03 and I’m just going to have that confidence
0:32:06 and do what I want to do and that’s it.
0:32:10 Because I feel if we stop putting it in our head,
0:32:12 you can’t go where you want to go.
0:32:13 It’s going to come in your way
0:32:15 in being who you want to be.
0:32:18 – So Stephanie, like when you introduce a friend
0:32:21 to the platform, you know, do they believe you?
0:32:22 Are they skeptical?
0:32:23 What do they think?
0:32:25 – I would say they were shocked.
0:32:28 – Yeah, ’cause like four people right now
0:32:31 want to like know more about it and they called me,
0:32:32 I explained it to them and they were like,
0:32:35 wow, they didn’t know such a thing exists
0:32:37 because it’s easy.
0:32:40 Like I have a friend right now that sends an application in
0:32:41 and she has not heard from them.
0:32:43 It just shows still reviewing.
0:32:46 And she applied to four positions to already,
0:32:50 they’ve sent her an automated email saying, no.
0:32:52 But I know that place is short.
0:32:55 So I told her to just fill out the application.
0:32:56 She sent me a link.
0:32:59 She said, I need to refer her or something like that.
0:33:01 So I explained how it works.
0:33:03 I was like, once you fill out the application,
0:33:06 they’ll get back to you and tell you how it works more
0:33:10 and employers will apply to you
0:33:11 and you choose which one you want.
0:33:12 And she was like, oh, wow.
0:33:14 – So it’s interesting that you talked about going
0:33:18 to different hospital websites for the application
0:33:20 because there are other worlds where people are trying
0:33:22 to find employment like LinkedIn
0:33:26 and other social media or other online platforms
0:33:27 where people can apply.
0:33:32 – So LinkedIn and Indeed and even the own hospitals job board,
0:33:34 these are basically job boards, post a job
0:33:37 and then waiting for people to apply.
0:33:40 The issue is that from the hospital standpoint,
0:33:42 it’s quantity over quality.
0:33:43 So there’s a ton of applicants.
0:33:47 But there’s usually a very small in-house recruiting team
0:33:49 that’s sifting through all of that manually.
0:33:51 They don’t have a supportive software or anything.
0:33:54 And so what happens is a lot of people fall
0:33:56 through the cracks, like they’re doing all the screening
0:33:58 and the matching manually.
0:34:01 And because we use our software to do a lot
0:34:03 of that heavy lifting for the recruiter,
0:34:06 the screening piece, the matching piece,
0:34:08 they’re looking at a much smaller group
0:34:10 in order to hire, right?
0:34:12 That’s how we’re able to speed up the process
0:34:15 to less than 30 days and reduce the amount of work
0:34:17 and increase the efficiency by 25 times
0:34:20 for the recruiter compared to using a job board.
0:34:23 – And what about the age of nurses in the field?
0:34:26 Like have they all been consistently responsive
0:34:27 to the technology?
0:34:29 I know sometimes that can be a little bit intimidating
0:34:32 for people who are of a different generation.
0:34:36 Like how is that translated well to across generations?
0:34:37 – Great question.
0:34:40 I think the average number of years of experience
0:34:43 of nurses on our platform is about 12,
0:34:45 but we have everything from one year of experience
0:34:46 to 30 years.
0:34:50 So we have to cater to the entire demographic.
0:34:53 What that means, I mean, that just puts the onus on us
0:34:55 to make sure our software is incredibly easy to use
0:34:57 even if you’re not tech savvy.
0:35:01 So for example, we use a great service called Twilio, right?
0:35:03 For SMS.
0:35:06 We put a lot of emphasis on our iOS and Android apps
0:35:08 because nurses are on their phones.
0:35:10 They don’t really check email.
0:35:12 Many of them don’t even have laptops, right?
0:35:16 So it’s on us to accommodate all the different demographics.
0:35:20 So now that you made the leap and the platform is up
0:35:21 and it’s working and things are happening,
0:35:23 what are some of the biggest lessons learned
0:35:26 that you can look at the before and then after?
0:35:29 What are some of the lessons that you learn?
0:35:30 – That’s so many.
0:35:31 They’re all summarized in your book actually.
0:35:33 (laughing)
0:35:34 – Trauma.
0:35:35 – Yeah.
0:35:37 First one is one I referred to earlier
0:35:40 is just about the importance of confidence and assertiveness.
0:35:44 And that alone just helps you overcome a ton of obstacles.
0:35:49 The second lesson is CEOs to manage your own psychology.
0:35:54 I completely underestimated the mental impact
0:35:58 of starting a business from scratch,
0:36:02 especially one that has a big ambition and vision.
0:36:05 And so what I’ve, you know, I have a therapist
0:36:07 and that’s cool, right?
0:36:11 And I have an executive coach and I surround myself
0:36:13 by other CEOs who are also going through
0:36:15 similar issues.
0:36:18 So really paying attention to my own psychology
0:36:20 has been a really important lesson.
0:36:21 – Very important.
0:36:23 So Stephanie, with that in mind,
0:36:24 kind of like the same question.
0:36:27 Like you talked earlier about having this moment
0:36:29 where you almost quit.
0:36:31 Like what is the biggest lesson you’ve learned
0:36:33 from just forging through?
0:36:36 – Keep going and have the patience.
0:36:37 – Patience.
0:36:37 – Yes.
0:36:40 And I’ll say another lesson I learned was change.
0:36:44 I’m not the type that I don’t like change at all.
0:36:47 So coming to California is a huge change
0:36:49 and I don’t regret doing it.
0:36:52 So I’m always open now to change.
0:36:53 – Some major life lessons in life.
0:36:57 – From Nigeria to Europe to Atlanta to California.
0:36:58 – I mean, I think this is just really,
0:37:00 of all things, it’s incredible to hear.
0:37:04 And I’m always excited just about how they get to spaces
0:37:07 of success and how they overcome obstacles.
0:37:10 So this conversation has been really insightful
0:37:12 and I’m deeply appreciative of y’all being here.
0:37:12 – Yeah.
0:37:13 – Great, thank you.
0:37:14 – That was great conversation.
0:37:17 – I hope, you know, from listening to this episode
0:37:20 that it inspires more people to go into nursing,
0:37:22 especially more men.
0:37:24 So I hope we can get rid of some of the stigma
0:37:25 around nursing that it’s just for women.
0:37:28 Like we definitely need more men in nursing.
0:37:30 – Thank you so much for joining us on this episode
0:37:31 of “Hustling Tech.”
0:37:35 And thank you to our guests, Iman and Stephanie,
0:37:37 so much knowledge of this episode.
0:37:39 If you’re a real hustler, listen to it twice.
0:37:42 (upbeat music)
0:37:45 (upbeat music)
0:37:47 (sighs)
0:37:49 you
0:37:59 [BLANK_AUDIO]
0:00:15 – Welcome to Hustling Tech.
0:00:19 The show that helps you if you have ambition and drive
0:00:21 and need to get started,
0:00:23 get into the tech world
0:00:27 and take advantage of the opportunities.
0:00:32 Today with us we have Iman who is CEO of Incredible Health
0:00:37 and Stephanie who is a hustler on the platform.
0:00:41 Now also with me is my co-host as always Shaka Senghor
0:00:43 who hustled his way out of the joint
0:00:46 and became a bestselling author
0:00:48 and all kinds of other stuff.
0:00:49 – So we’re excited to talk to you all today
0:00:52 about all the amazing things that you all have been doing.
0:00:55 I think that the first question I have is like,
0:00:56 what was your why?
0:00:59 So my why, so by background, I’m a medical doctor.
0:01:01 I don’t practice at all anymore.
0:01:02 A lot of my family members and friends
0:01:04 are doctors and surgeons
0:01:07 and they were often complaining about understaffing,
0:01:09 especially not having enough nurses on the floor,
0:01:13 not wanting to rely on travel nurses or contract nurses
0:01:14 to take care of their patients.
0:01:17 And then at the same time, my co-founder, Rome Portlock,
0:01:19 he’s a software engineer from MIT.
0:01:21 He’s been building software for 15, 20 years
0:01:23 with sisters or nurses.
0:01:25 And even though they’re experienced and qualified,
0:01:27 they’re saying it still takes me at least two,
0:01:29 three months to get my next job.
0:01:32 And we’re like, okay, this doesn’t make any sense.
0:01:35 And what we discovered is a lot of the processes,
0:01:39 the tools, the software that HR teams at hospitals
0:01:41 are using are very outdated.
0:01:43 They haven’t actually changed since,
0:01:45 I don’t know, late ’80s, early ’90s.
0:01:47 We figured there just has to be a better way.
0:01:51 Incredible Health is the fastest growing hiring platform
0:01:53 for nurses in the US today.
0:01:55 Hospitals and health systems use the platform
0:01:59 to hire nurses in permanent roles in less than 30 days
0:02:01 instead of it taking 90 days or longer.
0:02:05 – Wow, and why did you do it the way you did
0:02:06 instead of just saying, okay,
0:02:08 well, build software for hospitals
0:02:09 or something like that?
0:02:10 Why did you– – I think there were a couple
0:02:13 of reasons why we took a more comprehensive approach.
0:02:16 One is we understood the market
0:02:18 and there’s some fundamental problems
0:02:19 like the nursing shortage.
0:02:21 And to put it in context,
0:02:22 that shortage is three times bigger
0:02:24 than the software engineering shortage.
0:02:28 And so our demand for healthcare keeps going up,
0:02:29 but there are just simply not enough
0:02:31 healthcare workers in the system.
0:02:34 – How do we land here where, like, what is the–
0:02:35 – They’re not paying enough.
0:02:36 – Yeah, they’re not paying enough, yeah.
0:02:40 – Yeah, there’s probably two bottlenecks.
0:02:42 The first is the number of people
0:02:44 getting accepted to nursing schools.
0:02:46 – Nursing school is very competitive.
0:02:48 It has a lot of wait lists.
0:02:50 Once you apply to go into the nursing school,
0:02:53 you’re not guaranteed to get in immediately.
0:02:54 You have to go through some process.
0:02:55 You have to wait.
0:02:59 So that’s why we have such shortage.
0:03:00 – And then the other big huge bottleneck
0:03:03 is what happens right after nursing school.
0:03:06 So unlike doctors, we have residency programs,
0:03:10 honestly, that are mostly funded by the government.
0:03:11 But when it comes to training nurses,
0:03:14 it’s the hospitals that bear the majority of that cost.
0:03:18 And so they don’t always see a strong ROI
0:03:19 on those training programs
0:03:21 because nurses go through it
0:03:23 and then they often leave
0:03:26 because they’re next opportunity.
0:03:29 So it is actually quite hard for a new graduate nurse
0:03:30 to land their first job.
0:03:33 They have to be very geographically flexible
0:03:34 in order to do that.
0:03:36 No, once you’re at a Stephanie stage,
0:03:38 when you have a few years under your belt,
0:03:40 and that is a sweet spot,
0:03:44 where if you have one or two years of experience,
0:03:46 you’re pursuing a specialty already,
0:03:51 you will get a job very quickly on our platform.
0:03:52 – Oh, wow.
0:03:54 So how long have you been a nurse, Stephanie?
0:03:55 – For three years now.
0:03:57 – Well, it started at the beginning.
0:03:58 – Well, I’m Nigerian.
0:04:02 I grew up in Nigeria, most of my adulthood,
0:04:04 and I left Nigeria at the age of 19.
0:04:07 There are two reasons that pushed me to become a nurse today.
0:04:11 The first one was I was sick back home in Nigeria,
0:04:13 and I had surgery.
0:04:17 It was appendix, just a minor surgery,
0:04:19 but it ruptured.
0:04:23 And I developed sort of an infection,
0:04:26 and they were incapable of handling it,
0:04:29 and it went to a point where I almost lost my life.
0:04:32 So the reason why I’m actually sitting
0:04:35 and talking to you guys is because my mom actually
0:04:38 walked with a doctor that she could rely on,
0:04:41 and she had to look for him to perform the surgery for me.
0:04:44 And that’s really saved my life.
0:04:47 So that was one of the reasons I decided to become a nurse.
0:04:49 And the second reason was
0:04:51 I didn’t immediately push through the nursing career.
0:04:53 I went into business
0:04:56 because I wanted to help my dad out in his business.
0:04:59 So that’s why I went into business administration.
0:05:01 But I was like, I’m not doing this for myself.
0:05:03 I need to do something for me.
0:05:06 And what triggered it was when I was doing my dissertation
0:05:09 in one of the biggest hospitals in Malta.
0:05:11 It’s called Matter Day.
0:05:14 I was able to communicate with nurses and doctors,
0:05:18 and I was like, no, this is where I belong.
0:05:21 So that was where I decided I was going to go into nursing.
0:05:22 I called my brother.
0:05:23 My brother was here.
0:05:25 He’s been here in America for the longest.
0:05:27 So he told me, oh, if you want to do nursing,
0:05:29 come to America and do it.
0:05:31 And that was where I started.
0:05:34 Like I came over, I started with cancers
0:05:35 where I did my pre-nursing,
0:05:39 and then I moved over to Atlanta, Georgia,
0:05:41 where I finished up the nursing school,
0:05:44 and I started walking at Northside Hospital Atlanta.
0:05:47 And then I finally moved here to California.
0:05:50 And the nursing program, it was difficult to get in.
0:05:50 I will not lie.
0:05:53 It was very difficult to get into the program.
0:05:55 And what made it difficult?
0:05:58 Was it the process was difficult?
0:05:59 The process was difficult.
0:06:00 There are a lot of waiting lists.
0:06:04 So you can imagine applying Wednesday’s waiting list.
0:06:07 So they go for those who are in the waiting list before you.
0:06:12 I actually stayed home one more year after my prerequisites.
0:06:13 And then when it was time for me,
0:06:17 I started at Chamberlain College of Nursing in Atlanta, Georgia,
0:06:21 because I just moved to California three months ago.
0:06:24 And then I stayed there for two years.
0:06:26 It was very–
0:06:29 nursing school is very chaotic.
0:06:31 We go through a lot.
0:06:33 I nearly gave up.
0:06:36 I nearly gave up nursing school.
0:06:39 I don’t know how to explain it, but it’s difficult.
0:06:41 Not everybody goes in that comes out.
0:06:46 I started with a lot of friends, and a lot of them left.
0:06:48 So that could be another reason to get away.
0:06:50 We’re having the nursing shortage,
0:06:54 because they make it very, very rigorous.
0:06:57 It makes sense once you get into the nursing itself,
0:06:59 because they’re training you to take care
0:07:01 of these critically ill patients.
0:07:04 So you have to meet up to that standard.
0:07:07 That’s why they really screen us in school.
0:07:09 The other thing, it’s a regulated profession.
0:07:12 So just like many other health care professions,
0:07:16 you have to have licenses, you have to have certain certifications.
0:07:17 Makes sense.
0:07:21 Yeah, so the regulation part, who puts the cost of getting
0:07:22 the licenses and all that?
0:07:26 Is that on the student nurse, or is it some type of stipend?
0:07:28 How does that work out?
0:07:31 The hospital I applied to, where I got my first nursing job,
0:07:33 paid for it.
0:07:36 So that was OK by me.
0:07:39 I got the job before I graduated.
0:07:41 So they told me, oh, they’re going to pay for it,
0:07:43 as long as you pass the boards.
0:07:46 So I paid, and they funded it back to me.
0:07:48 But Stephanie was in the fortunate position
0:07:50 of having the job already lined up.
0:07:52 So now, if you don’t have a job lined up,
0:07:54 many nurses have to pay out of pocket.
0:07:58 So before I found incredible health,
0:08:00 I decided I was going to move to California
0:08:02 to be close to family.
0:08:07 I was putting in my application in so many hospitals,
0:08:09 and I didn’t get any callback.
0:08:11 I just get this automated email saying,
0:08:14 oh, unfortunately, we consider other candidates.
0:08:16 It’s not that you are not qualified,
0:08:19 but there were too many people that applied.
0:08:22 Which is pretty weird, given there’s a nursing school.
0:08:25 Those same hospitals, you find them looking for nurses
0:08:26 to work for them.
0:08:30 So I didn’t just understand why that was happening.
0:08:32 So it was my brother that told me to try it.
0:08:35 So I just filled in my application with incredible health,
0:08:39 and I just got a call immediately,
0:08:43 and they told me, oh, this is how it works.
0:08:45 And once any hospital is interested in you,
0:08:48 they will send a message, you just respond,
0:08:52 and it was kind of like an easy way
0:08:55 and different process applying to hospitals.
0:08:57 The employers are coming for you,
0:08:59 not you going to them, they’re chasing you.
0:09:01 – So you’re an NBA player at the end.
0:09:03 – Exactly, exactly.
0:09:05 The employers apply to the nurses
0:09:07 instead of waiting for the nurses to apply to them.
0:09:08 – Yes. – No, that’s awesome.
0:09:13 – So with that model, do you end up at different hospitals
0:09:17 or private practice, how does that work, the model itself?
0:09:20 – So you have a lot of hospitals applying to you.
0:09:22 So you have that opportunity to be like,
0:09:25 oh, no, I don’t want this one, I want this one.
0:09:26 That’s what I was doing.
0:09:28 I had lots of hospitals that wanted
0:09:29 to have an interview with me,
0:09:33 but I already had the list of hospitals I wanted to go for,
0:09:35 and those are the ones I selected.
0:09:40 So you just as an advantage to choose what you really want.
0:09:42 – Yeah, so when a nurse, we say,
0:09:45 when a nurse goes live on our platform,
0:09:46 means they’re actively looking,
0:09:48 actually within days,
0:09:50 they can get several interview requests
0:09:51 from multiple hospitals.
0:09:53 And then we give them three days,
0:09:56 which interviews to accept and which ones to decline.
0:09:58 For those that get accepted,
0:10:01 our software also facilitates that first phone screen
0:10:03 with a recruiter, and we also,
0:10:05 our customer support team supports both the nurse
0:10:07 and the recruiter through the end,
0:10:08 all the way to the end of the process.
0:10:10 So no one gets dropped in the funnel.
0:10:13 – So in my source, that means that on any given week,
0:10:15 you can be at different hospitals.
0:10:16 Like, is that how it works?
0:10:18 What I’m getting at is,
0:10:20 so once that process happens, you get accepted,
0:10:24 can you work for this hospital today, Tuesday, Wednesday?
0:10:26 Am I at another hospital next week?
0:10:27 Like, does it work like that?
0:10:29 Or is it like, this is my place,
0:10:30 this is where I’ll be working for?
0:10:31 – Yeah, great question.
0:10:33 The nurses on our platform are getting hired
0:10:36 for, you know, as employees at the hospitals.
0:10:40 We’ve intentionally stayed away from contract work
0:10:42 and temporary labor,
0:10:45 because honestly, that’s not what the hospitals want.
0:10:47 They’re urgently looking for permanent labor.
0:10:48 And then the other thing we guarantee,
0:10:50 both to the nurses and the hospitals,
0:10:52 is hires in less than 30 days.
0:10:55 The average on the market is 82 days.
0:10:59 So we really dramatically try to bring down
0:11:01 that days to fill to less than 30 days.
0:11:02 – That’s amazing.
0:11:04 – I mean, I just think it’s really so interesting
0:11:07 that because of the struggles that so many communities go to
0:11:09 just to get quality healthcare.
0:11:11 So I think, you know, having something that’s bridging
0:11:13 that gap, how has it been received in the industry though?
0:11:16 Like, what has the response and reaction been?
0:11:18 – It’s been extremely positive.
0:11:20 When we started, we were just in California
0:11:22 and we’re currently expanding nationally.
0:11:25 So we work with all the top academic medical centers
0:11:26 like Stanford and Cedar Sinai.
0:11:28 Stephanie actually got her job at Stanford.
0:11:30 She’s at the brand new hospital here.
0:11:31 – All right, all right.
0:11:35 Yeah, so they, you know, my partner, Mark Andreessen,
0:11:38 his wife donated the Stanford emergency room.
0:11:41 Andreessen Ariaga emergency room.
0:11:42 – That’s awesome.
0:11:44 We work with all the big health systems
0:11:47 like HCA and Tenant and Providence St. Joseph
0:11:50 and lots of community hospitals too.
0:11:53 And so we really perfected the platform
0:11:55 and our processes here in California first.
0:11:58 And then a few months ago started to expand nationally.
0:12:00 And so now we have help, academic medical centers,
0:12:02 big health systems and community hospitals
0:12:04 and other parts of the country too.
0:12:07 – Now that you’ve got kind of the marketplace up and running,
0:12:10 generally, you know, we analyze marketplaces.
0:12:13 We always talk in terms of kind of supply and demand.
0:12:15 And like, where do you have the bottleneck?
0:12:18 And it seems like given there’s a nursing shortage,
0:12:21 you’re gonna, getting nurses is always gonna be
0:12:24 a little harder than getting hospitals, I would think.
0:12:25 Is that right?
0:12:25 – That’s right, yeah.
0:12:28 – And so how do you think, you know,
0:12:30 how do you think about that as things evolve
0:12:34 and what your role is in kind of getting more nurses
0:12:35 into the market?
0:12:37 – Yeah, I mean, in terms of getting the nurses
0:12:40 on our platform, all of it really starts with our mission
0:12:42 and the mission is to help healthcare professionals
0:12:44 live better lives and help them find
0:12:45 and do their best work.
0:12:47 In general, this is a group that isn’t,
0:12:51 this group of workers that’s not treated particularly well.
0:12:52 You know, there’s a lot of burnout.
0:12:56 So we wanted to be the one company and service
0:12:58 and platform out there that’s giving them
0:13:00 the best experience possible.
0:13:03 And so really that’s like the core of what attracts
0:13:05 the nurses to the platform is that very strong value
0:13:08 proposition that, hey, create a profile,
0:13:10 sit back and relax, hospitals will apply to you.
0:13:14 And now in terms of that, that actual messaging
0:13:16 and how it gets out, it’s a really a combination
0:13:18 of marketing and product.
0:13:20 What we’re doing on our platform is we’re also providing
0:13:23 a whole suite of free tools and software for nurses too.
0:13:27 So salary calculators and, you know,
0:13:29 completely free continuing education
0:13:31 that’s paid for by Incredible Health.
0:13:32 Where they can–
0:13:34 – So you can go from being like an LVN to an RN
0:13:35 and that kind of thing.
0:13:38 – Yeah, so that’s, and then the other thing is really
0:13:39 building community around this,
0:13:43 both offline community of nurses and also, you know,
0:13:45 creating more of an online community for nurses as well.
0:13:47 So there’s one place that they can congregate.
0:13:49 – Yeah, Stephanie, when you first,
0:13:51 when your brother introduced you to it,
0:13:53 like, how did you approach it?
0:13:54 So he comes to you and is like,
0:13:57 hey, here’s an opportunity, let me get you in the game.
0:14:00 Like, what was that, what was your initial reaction
0:14:03 to the introduction to the platform?
0:14:06 – It was different and I was like,
0:14:09 I was like, I want to see what this is all about.
0:14:13 And that was where I got to see it’s a better way
0:14:17 to like get nurses to get job faster.
0:14:19 And I was really impressed with it.
0:14:22 So that’s why a lot of my friends, nurses,
0:14:25 that are in Atlanta, Georgia that have plans to come over,
0:14:28 everybody’s looking forward to using it
0:14:30 because it’s just easy.
0:14:34 And you don’t have to like deal with the long wait,
0:14:37 the rejection emails that are automated.
0:14:42 You’re not like communicating with the hospital
0:14:44 on how to get your interview set up.
0:14:46 They are doing it for you.
0:14:47 All you just need to do is to get the dates
0:14:49 that is convenient for you and just show up
0:14:50 for your interview.
0:14:52 It was stress free, hustle free.
0:14:53 – And what does that look like?
0:14:55 Like in terms of the continuing education,
0:14:58 I’m always interested in different ways to learn.
0:15:00 So what does that look like on a platform?
0:15:03 – Yeah, so nurses annually have to get
0:15:06 continuing education like credits or units.
0:15:09 And that’s to maintain their specialization
0:15:11 or maintain their experience.
0:15:15 And in some cases, to get a specific state license,
0:15:16 you need to have a certain number
0:15:18 of continuing education like credits basically.
0:15:21 And a lot of these are online courses actually,
0:15:23 and they’re across different topics.
0:15:26 You know, we can cost hundreds of dollars a year.
0:15:28 And so we’re just bearing that cost for nurses.
0:15:30 Whether they’re using our platform
0:15:31 for getting a job or not,
0:15:32 it’s gonna be available to all nurses.
0:15:34 – So it sounds like it’s almost like
0:15:39 you are kind of CAA for nurses.
0:15:43 Which is Creative Artist Agency,
0:15:46 which is one of the biggest talent agencies in the world.
0:15:49 And so when you do that,
0:15:54 do you start to think about an individual nurse’s profile
0:15:56 and reputation so that you can market them better?
0:15:57 Or how do you approach that?
0:16:00 – Yeah, we spend a lot of time thinking
0:16:02 and working on improving nurse profiles.
0:16:05 And it’s everything from the actual profile itself
0:16:07 and the different fields that we’re collecting,
0:16:11 ’cause we are automatically with a lot of software screening
0:16:12 and matching them as well.
0:16:15 So this isn’t humans doing it, it’s all software doing it.
0:16:16 ‘Cause if you’re a recruiter,
0:16:18 you don’t want to log in and see 200 nurses.
0:16:20 You want to see 14 that are the right fit
0:16:22 for you at that time.
0:16:24 And that saves them a considerable amount of time too.
0:16:28 – And ’cause a nurse has got to have a specialization
0:16:30 and a location and some kind of background
0:16:32 for that to be a fit, okay.
0:16:35 – We’re matching on probably 40 or 50 different attributes.
0:16:36 Some of the attributes are things
0:16:39 like specialty licenses, certifications,
0:16:42 location preference, commute times.
0:16:44 And then in addition to the profile,
0:16:46 we’re also providing interview preparation too.
0:16:49 – You also apply this to like dating apps.
0:16:51 – So it’s funny you say that.
0:16:53 So chief nursing officers refer to us
0:16:55 as the match.com of hospitals and nurses,
0:16:58 which is kind of embarrassing, but it’s accurate too.
0:17:02 – So Stephanie, so listen to like the kind of the profile
0:17:04 and breakdown of like the matching process.
0:17:06 Like what were some of the things specifically
0:17:08 that you had to kind of share to figure out
0:17:10 how you matched up with the people
0:17:12 who you was looking to be hired by?
0:17:16 – So I was looking at my commute and the,
0:17:18 ’cause I wanted something in the Bay Area.
0:17:23 So I chose something I can, a place I can drive to.
0:17:24 I don’t need to drive more than 30 minutes.
0:17:26 That was my goal.
0:17:29 And that was one of the reasons I chose Stanford.
0:17:33 And I also chose Stanford because of the reputation
0:17:35 and the experiences there too.
0:17:40 So those were part of the, those were part of my selections.
0:17:40 – Yeah, I mean,
0:17:42 one of our goals is the nurse has no idea
0:17:44 what’s going on behind the scenes
0:17:46 when it comes to screening and matching.
0:17:49 And it just seems like a magical process.
0:17:50 – Well, that’s why the rejection letters.
0:17:53 You’re rejected, you’re qualified,
0:17:57 but you don’t match on some criteria
0:17:59 that you don’t know about.
0:18:01 And so that’s, okay, so that’s really interesting.
0:18:04 And then if somebody does an interview
0:18:06 and doesn’t get the job,
0:18:09 is there a feedback process for how does that work?
0:18:11 – Anytime a nurse doesn’t proceed in the hiring process,
0:18:14 we, we’re, you know, recruiters are able to enter
0:18:16 the reasons why they were not hired.
0:18:19 And each nurse on our platform is paired
0:18:21 with what we call a talent advocate.
0:18:23 These are members of our team.
0:18:25 They are all RNs as well.
0:18:28 And I think of them as like advocates
0:18:30 or career coaches for every nurse.
0:18:32 So that’s like a, also like a free service
0:18:34 that we provide to the nurses too.
0:18:38 – So one day every hospital in America
0:18:40 and every nurse is going to be on the platform.
0:18:43 What can you do at that point?
0:18:45 – So number one we talked about was the shortage.
0:18:47 And then the other one is just the inefficiency
0:18:48 in the market, like the right, you know,
0:18:52 the hospitals and nurses aren’t even finding each other.
0:18:53 A lot of what we’ve built so far
0:18:55 and what we’ve worked on so far
0:18:57 is to solve the inefficiency problem, right?
0:18:58 How do we get the right nurses
0:19:00 at the right hospitals quickly?
0:19:03 – Right, and that actually addresses the shortage
0:19:06 in many ways in that it’s not just
0:19:09 that the nurses and theorists said you can’t find them.
0:19:12 – Correct, yeah, it’s like ships passing each other
0:19:15 through the night, like they just don’t find each other.
0:19:20 And in terms of solving the actual underlying
0:19:23 nursing shortage, honestly, I know it’s something
0:19:25 we want to tackle because it’s part of our mission
0:19:26 and our vision.
0:19:28 I don’t know exactly how that’s going to look like yet.
0:19:32 One of the interesting pieces of the story of CAA is
0:19:36 before CAA, top actor or actress would make, you know,
0:19:39 maybe $500,000 on a film.
0:19:43 After CAA, 20 million, why?
0:19:48 Because every top actress and actor in the late 80s
0:19:51 was on the CAA platform.
0:19:54 So they could basically say you can’t make a movie
0:19:58 without us and the economics switched and flipped around
0:20:01 and put the power in the hands of the people
0:20:03 making the movies and in healthcare.
0:20:06 I mean, I know this just ’cause, you know,
0:20:10 my mother was a nurse, nurses are actually way more important
0:20:14 than the hospital hierarchy treats them often.
0:20:15 – Yeah.
0:20:16 – And that actually has more variance in your outcome
0:20:17 than anything.
0:20:22 So do you see a time in the future where by having
0:20:25 all the nurses collectively together,
0:20:29 you can actually make the profession more attractive?
0:20:29 – We’re already seeing that.
0:20:32 So on average on our platform,
0:20:35 the nurses salary increases by 17%
0:20:37 and commute time goes down by 15%.
0:20:41 There’s actually several reasons why nurses change jobs.
0:20:43 One reason is I want to get paid more.
0:20:45 Another is I want to shorten my commute time.
0:20:47 Another is I want to advance my career
0:20:48 and I want to get more skills
0:20:50 in a particular specialty area.
0:20:52 And then a fourth one is just I need to relocate
0:20:53 for whatever reason, like,
0:20:55 Stephanie probably had like, what,
0:20:56 two or three of those are valid.
0:20:57 – All of them.
0:20:59 All of the above.
0:21:01 – Advance my career I needed to experience too
0:21:02 and know that.
0:21:04 – So what we’re seeing in the marketplace dynamic is like,
0:21:07 yeah, overall, like the salaries are skewing higher
0:21:11 because well, if you’re an OR nurse in the Bay Area,
0:21:13 for example, or an LA,
0:21:16 every single hospital has that shortage.
0:21:18 So you can, you have the opportunity to optimize.
0:21:20 – And you can leverage that knowledge, right?
0:21:21 – Yeah, exactly.
0:21:21 – That’s incredible.
0:21:24 – And one of the things I’m always interested in
0:21:27 when, you know, talking to entrepreneurs is that leap,
0:21:28 that leap of faith.
0:21:31 What did it take for you to take that leap
0:21:34 from doctor to entrepreneur?
0:21:37 And were there moments where you were a little bit hesitant
0:21:39 or afraid or were you just like,
0:21:41 no, I want to just do this and make this thing happen?
0:21:45 – Yeah, and like dealing with, I’m going to build software.
0:21:46 – So we’re talking about 10 years
0:21:49 from the time I decided to not,
0:21:50 from the time I graduated from medical school
0:21:52 and decided not to do residency
0:21:54 to the time I founded Incredible Health.
0:21:57 So during that time, I had worked in management consulting.
0:22:00 I was exposed to hospital operations and strategy.
0:22:03 I had done my MBA at Wharton on the East Coast.
0:22:07 And then during that time in business schools,
0:22:09 where I was really starting to get more exposed
0:22:10 to entrepreneurs ’cause a lot of my classmates
0:22:13 were founders and CEOs.
0:22:15 And then the other thing is starting a business
0:22:18 is something I’ve always kind of had in the back of my mind
0:22:19 for a very long time.
0:22:21 Both my grandfathers are entrepreneurs.
0:22:23 I’m originally from Sudan.
0:22:27 And so yeah, I got some health hustlers in my family, right?
0:22:30 But I knew I needed to, like all the stars
0:22:33 need to align before you take the dive, right?
0:22:36 So I knew I needed to move to the Bay Area
0:22:37 because this is controversial,
0:22:39 but it still hands down the best place in the world
0:22:40 to build a technology company.
0:22:41 – No question, yeah.
0:22:43 – I needed to have the right co-founder.
0:22:45 When I moved out to the Bay Area,
0:22:47 I didn’t know anything about software.
0:22:49 I didn’t know anything about how to build a product
0:22:51 or ship or anything.
0:22:55 So I actually got, my first job was as a product manager
0:22:57 at an early stage healthcare technology company
0:22:58 in the Bay Area.
0:23:00 And that’s really where I learned to work
0:23:02 with software engineers and designers and data scientists
0:23:05 and what it takes to launch a product and grow a business.
0:23:06 And so after a couple of years of that,
0:23:09 left with one of the lead software engineers,
0:23:12 Rome, who’s my current co-founder, to work on this.
0:23:14 And so like multiple things had to come together
0:23:15 for me to make that decision.
0:23:17 So I needed to have the right co-founder.
0:23:19 I needs to be in the right location.
0:23:21 Honestly, I needed to have enough savings.
0:23:23 And of course I needed to have the right idea
0:23:24 and the right opportunity.
0:23:25 – Right.
0:23:29 Yeah, that’s a really great insight understanding
0:23:30 that you had.
0:23:35 You know, we see a lot of entrepreneurs who have an idea,
0:23:38 but not the skillset to go pursue that idea
0:23:42 and the fact that you recognized, okay.
0:23:44 Not only do I need the skillset,
0:23:45 and you not only got the skillset,
0:23:48 but you got the network to put together the team
0:23:50 to build the company that was gonna work.
0:23:52 That’s really impressive.
0:23:54 – So one of the things that when we started the conversation,
0:23:56 we talked about kind of like origins, right?
0:23:58 So you’re from your family’s from the Sudan
0:24:00 and your family’s from Nigeria.
0:24:02 I just came back from Makaragana.
0:24:06 And one of the things that I loved was just like the hustle
0:24:08 and just seeing people that was like,
0:24:09 no matter what the circumstance were,
0:24:11 they was gonna figure out how to get out there
0:24:12 and make it happen.
0:24:16 How much of that plays a role in where you are today?
0:24:17 And that’s for like both of y’all.
0:24:19 Like how much of that play a role?
0:24:22 – Well, I came from a hustling family.
0:24:26 My dad is a hustler and he brought us up to hustle.
0:24:28 Like you have to take care of yourself
0:24:30 and you have to take care of those around you.
0:24:32 So we always hustle.
0:24:34 And one of the way he taught us how to hustle
0:24:37 is by going to school.
0:24:40 He made sure we go to school and he always tells us,
0:24:42 you do not have to stop at the square cop,
0:24:44 you need the round cap.
0:24:49 So he was always bent on pushing us to advance our career
0:24:52 and do good for yourself.
0:24:54 – Similarly, my family, my Sudanese family
0:24:57 has had similar values in that you gotta pursue education,
0:24:59 you gotta do your best.
0:25:00 No matter what field you go into,
0:25:02 you just need to aim to be the best.
0:25:05 And no matter what it takes, whatever hurdles you face,
0:25:07 like you just have to overcome them.
0:25:10 And that has played out, I’m one of five siblings.
0:25:12 So that has definitely played out
0:25:14 and they’re all thankfully doing great.
0:25:17 You know, a lot of things that get people caught up,
0:25:19 a lot of just listening to your stories,
0:25:20 to have both of your stories,
0:25:23 you know, if something goes wrong
0:25:26 or you get rejected from a job and so forth,
0:25:29 a lot of times people here will interpret that as,
0:25:32 okay, that must have been something like,
0:25:35 you know, that systemically the country
0:25:37 is set up to stop me.
0:25:40 But neither of you had, I mean, whatever that was,
0:25:42 you just dusted it off.
0:25:43 How are you able to do that?
0:25:47 Because it is kind of a cultural outlier.
0:25:49 Yeah, great, that’s a good question.
0:25:51 Okay, so I’ll take the specific example
0:25:53 of raising venture capital.
0:25:56 When you look at the statistics,
0:26:00 it’s proven pretty much that the odds are stacked
0:26:02 against people who look like me, right?
0:26:03 And are your gender.
0:26:06 And yes, my gender and the fact that I’m a minority.
0:26:10 Black women raise 0.01% of the venture capital.
0:26:13 Yeah, that’s zero, that’s approximately zero.
0:26:17 Now, when I’m talking to other CEOs about this,
0:26:19 especially CEOs that look like me,
0:26:21 I’m like, okay, that’s what’s happening behind the scenes
0:26:23 and that’s what the data shows.
0:26:26 But you actually have to ignore that information.
0:26:28 You have to completely ignore it
0:26:30 and pretend it’s like not even there.
0:26:33 It’s a psychological web, right, and a trap.
0:26:38 So when you’re going into, you know, a fancy VC firm
0:26:41 and you walk in that room,
0:26:43 you have to be the way you communicate.
0:26:45 Your assertiveness needs to be the same
0:26:48 as your white male counterpart
0:26:51 that came in the room actually minutes before you probably,
0:26:54 right, and you have to match that level of confidence
0:26:58 and assertiveness in order to get like the term sheet.
0:27:00 So you really collect,
0:27:03 basically you just have to ignore all of that.
0:27:05 It’s still true, you know, like I still acknowledge
0:27:06 that it’s there, but.
0:27:08 But if you get it in your head,
0:27:09 then it’s definitely stopping you.
0:27:10 – Exactly.
0:27:13 – And what I see is that you need like a hundred percent
0:27:17 substance and competence
0:27:19 and then you also need a hundred percent confidence, right?
0:27:22 You need both, both are, both of those are required
0:27:24 if you’re going to do something that’s crazy ambitious
0:27:27 and probably the number one piece of advice
0:27:29 that I do give to minority CEOs is like, yeah,
0:27:31 you’ve got a hundred percent substance,
0:27:35 but like your confidence is only at like 40%.
0:27:37 That’s not, you’re not going to get that far.
0:27:39 You need to, you know, bump that up to a hundred percent.
0:27:42 – How do you teach people to get their confidence
0:27:43 where it needs to be?
0:27:46 Because that’s so easy to fall into that.
0:27:49 Well, they really didn’t understand me.
0:27:50 They really didn’t see me.
0:27:54 They, and like, how do you get people to get in that mindset
0:27:56 where they can cross that chasm?
0:28:00 And, and even racism aside,
0:28:03 just there is like a cultural bridge
0:28:05 that you have to cross getting into like high finance world.
0:28:08 – Yep, this is the hack I used.
0:28:11 I don’t need it anymore, but I used it in the beginning.
0:28:13 It’s very controversial.
0:28:14 (laughing)
0:28:15 – I love controversy.
0:28:16 Say more, say more.
0:28:17 – Let’s go with the controversy.
0:28:19 – So when I was first starting, you know,
0:28:21 raising that seed round or whatever,
0:28:24 I created like an alter ego for myself.
0:28:26 – Ah, all right.
0:28:27 – And the alter ego, okay.
0:28:28 – Who’s the alter ego?
0:28:30 – The alter ego is named Chad.
0:28:31 – That’s a very white name.
0:28:32 – Very. – Right.
0:28:35 – And Chad had a whole persona.
0:28:39 Like Chad was six feet tall, blonde hair, blue eyed.
0:28:42 Last four generations went to the Ivy League,
0:28:46 went to like Phillips Exeter or Hanover for high school.
0:28:46 – Yeah, yeah, I’ve heard of those.
0:28:49 – You know, just like the epitome of American privilege, right?
0:28:51 And when I was like, before I walk into that room,
0:28:55 and by the way, this is any situation where I’m selling
0:28:57 and CEOs have to sell a lot to investors,
0:28:59 to employees, to customers.
0:29:02 I’d be like, okay, for the next 60 minutes,
0:29:04 I’m not gonna be a man with like 30 years of baggage and,
0:29:08 you know, I’m just gonna be Chad for the next 60 minutes.
0:29:10 And you walk in the room and just act, what would,
0:29:12 you know, what would Chad do?
0:29:13 What would Chad say?
0:29:14 – Of course you’re giving me the money.
0:29:15 I’m Chad.
0:29:16 – Yeah, exactly, like Chad walks.
0:29:17 – Do you know where I went to school, bro?
0:29:19 – Exactly, Chad walks into the room,
0:29:23 like not only does he have insane amount of confidence,
0:29:24 like he owns that entire room,
0:29:26 he owns the entire block, right?
0:29:30 And so, you know, now I don’t need,
0:29:32 now Chad and he man have become one, right?
0:29:34 Like I don’t need the alter ego anymore,
0:29:38 but like when I was starting out, like it helped.
0:29:40 – See what’s so amazing is that you said,
0:29:43 I need that, as opposed to, that’s unfair.
0:29:45 – Yeah, I mean, it’s, you know,
0:29:48 I think about my life choices,
0:29:50 I realized most of it was choices.
0:29:52 And like I can choose how I want to show up in the world.
0:29:54 And it’s one of the things that,
0:29:57 like we really connect around, it’s just like,
0:29:59 if you’re an entrepreneur, like you’re an entrepreneur,
0:30:01 it doesn’t matter if you’re a black, white, ex-convict,
0:30:03 whatever, like those are,
0:30:06 that’s like the core of like your driver.
0:30:08 And I mean, I ran into every type of this,
0:30:10 I literally have every built in excuse
0:30:14 you can imagine one human being having, right?
0:30:15 But for me, I always just saw that as like,
0:30:18 how do you just show up in the world?
0:30:19 Like my alter ego is a rapper.
0:30:22 I grew up with hip hop from the beginning, right?
0:30:24 So when you listen to like the Sugar Hill gang,
0:30:27 and they would tell these just fantastical ass stories,
0:30:30 and you know, they probably still sleeping
0:30:31 on their grandma’s couch.
0:30:34 And then that started becoming reality
0:30:38 as rappers began to understand they can, you know,
0:30:41 monetize their skill set in a different way, right?
0:30:44 And so for me, it’s just like in order to get from,
0:30:46 you know, just making a record to like,
0:30:49 turn it into a business and just hustling, you know,
0:30:51 you got to work in different ways.
0:30:53 Like I’m like, okay, that mentality works,
0:30:57 but also they were telling our story.
0:30:58 You know, if you listen to like the rappers
0:31:00 who are hustlers, they’re talking about
0:31:01 the guys in the streets, you know,
0:31:03 but they monetized it in a way
0:31:05 that accelerated beyond the street.
0:31:08 So for me, it was just like tapping into that identity
0:31:10 of like, okay, I’ve done this before.
0:31:12 I’ve done it, but it was all the wrong product.
0:31:13 You know, all the things that come with that.
0:31:16 So for me to walk into a meeting with somebody
0:31:18 and say, hey, I got this idea, you know,
0:31:20 here’s what I’m trying to create or whatever,
0:31:24 like that’s small things to overcome, you know,
0:31:27 but the conversation internally is,
0:31:29 ’cause those voices of doubt never go,
0:31:30 at least for me, they never go away.
0:31:32 So it’s always like, how do I counter it, right?
0:31:33 How do you counter the voice?
0:31:34 It’s like, you’re not good enough
0:31:36 for this is going to stand in your way
0:31:38 or that’s going to stop you.
0:31:39 Sometimes you got to get out of your own head.
0:31:43 You got to get out of how that internal dialogue
0:31:45 can be disruptive when it comes to like
0:31:47 stepping over those bridges and gaps.
0:31:49 And so Stephanie, what’s your alter ego?
0:31:50 (laughing)
0:31:51 Like super-nurse?
0:31:52 – I don’t need an alter ego.
0:31:54 But I don’t have an alter ego.
0:31:57 I just be like, I just bring myself out
0:31:59 and I don’t see the fact that I’m a black woman.
0:32:01 I just see myself as this human being
0:32:03 and I’m just going to have that confidence
0:32:06 and do what I want to do and that’s it.
0:32:10 Because I feel if we stop putting it in our head,
0:32:12 you can’t go where you want to go.
0:32:13 It’s going to come in your way
0:32:15 in being who you want to be.
0:32:18 – So Stephanie, like when you introduce a friend
0:32:21 to the platform, you know, do they believe you?
0:32:22 Are they skeptical?
0:32:23 What do they think?
0:32:25 – I would say they were shocked.
0:32:28 – Yeah, ’cause like four people right now
0:32:31 want to like know more about it and they called me,
0:32:32 I explained it to them and they were like,
0:32:35 wow, they didn’t know such a thing exists
0:32:37 because it’s easy.
0:32:40 Like I have a friend right now that sends an application in
0:32:41 and she has not heard from them.
0:32:43 It just shows still reviewing.
0:32:46 And she applied to four positions to already,
0:32:50 they’ve sent her an automated email saying, no.
0:32:52 But I know that place is short.
0:32:55 So I told her to just fill out the application.
0:32:56 She sent me a link.
0:32:59 She said, I need to refer her or something like that.
0:33:01 So I explained how it works.
0:33:03 I was like, once you fill out the application,
0:33:06 they’ll get back to you and tell you how it works more
0:33:10 and employers will apply to you
0:33:11 and you choose which one you want.
0:33:12 And she was like, oh, wow.
0:33:14 – So it’s interesting that you talked about going
0:33:18 to different hospital websites for the application
0:33:20 because there are other worlds where people are trying
0:33:22 to find employment like LinkedIn
0:33:26 and other social media or other online platforms
0:33:27 where people can apply.
0:33:32 – So LinkedIn and Indeed and even the own hospitals job board,
0:33:34 these are basically job boards, post a job
0:33:37 and then waiting for people to apply.
0:33:40 The issue is that from the hospital standpoint,
0:33:42 it’s quantity over quality.
0:33:43 So there’s a ton of applicants.
0:33:47 But there’s usually a very small in-house recruiting team
0:33:49 that’s sifting through all of that manually.
0:33:51 They don’t have a supportive software or anything.
0:33:54 And so what happens is a lot of people fall
0:33:56 through the cracks, like they’re doing all the screening
0:33:58 and the matching manually.
0:34:01 And because we use our software to do a lot
0:34:03 of that heavy lifting for the recruiter,
0:34:06 the screening piece, the matching piece,
0:34:08 they’re looking at a much smaller group
0:34:10 in order to hire, right?
0:34:12 That’s how we’re able to speed up the process
0:34:15 to less than 30 days and reduce the amount of work
0:34:17 and increase the efficiency by 25 times
0:34:20 for the recruiter compared to using a job board.
0:34:23 – And what about the age of nurses in the field?
0:34:26 Like have they all been consistently responsive
0:34:27 to the technology?
0:34:29 I know sometimes that can be a little bit intimidating
0:34:32 for people who are of a different generation.
0:34:36 Like how is that translated well to across generations?
0:34:37 – Great question.
0:34:40 I think the average number of years of experience
0:34:43 of nurses on our platform is about 12,
0:34:45 but we have everything from one year of experience
0:34:46 to 30 years.
0:34:50 So we have to cater to the entire demographic.
0:34:53 What that means, I mean, that just puts the onus on us
0:34:55 to make sure our software is incredibly easy to use
0:34:57 even if you’re not tech savvy.
0:35:01 So for example, we use a great service called Twilio, right?
0:35:03 For SMS.
0:35:06 We put a lot of emphasis on our iOS and Android apps
0:35:08 because nurses are on their phones.
0:35:10 They don’t really check email.
0:35:12 Many of them don’t even have laptops, right?
0:35:16 So it’s on us to accommodate all the different demographics.
0:35:20 So now that you made the leap and the platform is up
0:35:21 and it’s working and things are happening,
0:35:23 what are some of the biggest lessons learned
0:35:26 that you can look at the before and then after?
0:35:29 What are some of the lessons that you learn?
0:35:30 – That’s so many.
0:35:31 They’re all summarized in your book actually.
0:35:33 (laughing)
0:35:34 – Trauma.
0:35:35 – Yeah.
0:35:37 First one is one I referred to earlier
0:35:40 is just about the importance of confidence and assertiveness.
0:35:44 And that alone just helps you overcome a ton of obstacles.
0:35:49 The second lesson is CEOs to manage your own psychology.
0:35:54 I completely underestimated the mental impact
0:35:58 of starting a business from scratch,
0:36:02 especially one that has a big ambition and vision.
0:36:05 And so what I’ve, you know, I have a therapist
0:36:07 and that’s cool, right?
0:36:11 And I have an executive coach and I surround myself
0:36:13 by other CEOs who are also going through
0:36:15 similar issues.
0:36:18 So really paying attention to my own psychology
0:36:20 has been a really important lesson.
0:36:21 – Very important.
0:36:23 So Stephanie, with that in mind,
0:36:24 kind of like the same question.
0:36:27 Like you talked earlier about having this moment
0:36:29 where you almost quit.
0:36:31 Like what is the biggest lesson you’ve learned
0:36:33 from just forging through?
0:36:36 – Keep going and have the patience.
0:36:37 – Patience.
0:36:37 – Yes.
0:36:40 And I’ll say another lesson I learned was change.
0:36:44 I’m not the type that I don’t like change at all.
0:36:47 So coming to California is a huge change
0:36:49 and I don’t regret doing it.
0:36:52 So I’m always open now to change.
0:36:53 – Some major life lessons in life.
0:36:57 – From Nigeria to Europe to Atlanta to California.
0:36:58 – I mean, I think this is just really,
0:37:00 of all things, it’s incredible to hear.
0:37:04 And I’m always excited just about how they get to spaces
0:37:07 of success and how they overcome obstacles.
0:37:10 So this conversation has been really insightful
0:37:12 and I’m deeply appreciative of y’all being here.
0:37:12 – Yeah.
0:37:13 – Great, thank you.
0:37:14 – That was great conversation.
0:37:17 – I hope, you know, from listening to this episode
0:37:20 that it inspires more people to go into nursing,
0:37:22 especially more men.
0:37:24 So I hope we can get rid of some of the stigma
0:37:25 around nursing that it’s just for women.
0:37:28 Like we definitely need more men in nursing.
0:37:30 – Thank you so much for joining us on this episode
0:37:31 of “Hustling Tech.”
0:37:35 And thank you to our guests, Iman and Stephanie,
0:37:37 so much knowledge of this episode.
0:37:39 If you’re a real hustler, listen to it twice.
0:37:42 (upbeat music)
0:37:45 (upbeat music)
0:37:47 (sighs)
0:37:49 you
0:37:59 [BLANK_AUDIO]
This is the next cycle (Q1 2020) of Hustlin’ Tech, a podcast series (from the a16z Podcast) about technology platforms that create opportunities for people. Recorded right before the coronavirus pandemic, these next 3 episodes touch on many things that are top of mind right now: from the profession of nursing; to taking care of the elderly; to fighting bureaucracy to get money and time back (and to get help delaying utility bills and rent payments that are eligible for an extension or waiver of late fees due to the coronavirus crisis).
Episode #4, “The Hustler’s Guide to Nursing Jobs” features:
- Iman Abuzeid, MD, CEO and co-founder of Incredible Health, a hiring platform for nurses in the U.S. used by hospitals and health systems that helps hospitals find nurses faster, offers free continuing education to nurses everywhere, and puts nurses at the center.
- Stephanie Anyanwu, RN, who found her nursing job on the platform and also journeyed to the U.S. from abroad;
…both interviewed by Ben Horowitz and Shaka Senghor.
You can find the first cycle of this series (Q4 2019) — including more about the what and the why — here.