The TikTok strategy that’s printing MILLIONS right now… (ft. Rob The Bank)

0:00:04 The point of this conversation is this is a gold rush and who knows how often these come around.
0:00:08 How much revenue will your brands do using this TikTok model this year?
0:00:10 A hundred plus.
0:00:12 So five brands, you’re going to do over a hundred million this year
0:00:15 and this is the playbook you’re running across all of them.
0:00:16 Yeah.
0:00:17 So what’s an example of one of these videos?
0:00:21 I think this video had made this kid close to $50,000.
0:00:22 The single video.
0:00:24 What you said in this video will make people millions of dollars.
0:00:27 If all they did was just try to act on it.
0:00:28 Millions are being printed on TikTok shop.
0:00:30 What are the mistakes people make?
0:00:33 My advice is be an observer, not a consumer.
0:00:35 That’s the best thing you can do.
0:00:36 Let’s brainstorm live.
0:00:38 A hundred million dollars, TikTok.
0:00:40 Yeah, I’m going to show you something that the world is never going to see,
0:00:43 but I’m going to show how serious I take this.
0:00:55 Has anyone ever wore a cut off like this before?
0:00:57 The first one to bring the gun show to MFM?
0:01:02 So I was just thinking, I’ve watched a lot of these and I’ve seen a lot of guests
0:01:04 and I was like, I’m different in a lot of ways.
0:01:07 So I might as well visually capture that and make a statement.
0:01:12 You were early to the Amazon trend and you took $5,000.
0:01:15 You turned it into a $30 million company you sold.
0:01:21 And what you told me was basically that this now is the first and biggest thing
0:01:23 you’ve seen since that Amazon opportunity.
0:01:23 Is that right?
0:01:24 It is.
0:01:24 It is.
0:01:28 And I’ve looked for these, I didn’t appreciate it in the Amazon era,
0:01:32 but I look for these moments in time where you don’t need a ton of startup capital.
0:01:34 You don’t need to raise money.
0:01:36 And you can basically just find something that works.
0:01:42 A system, a platform latch onto that and create something of substantial enterprise value.
0:01:43 And TikTok represents that.
0:01:46 So what I want to do is I want to go through the big idea.
0:01:48 So why people should be caring about TikTok right now.
0:01:50 What you see is the big opportunity.
0:01:55 And then specifically, what are some examples of people that are crushing it?
0:01:55 How are they crushing it?
0:01:56 What’s the playbook?
0:02:01 And then where are the opportunities that you see that are still open that anyone could go do?
0:02:02 So that’s my game plan.
0:02:03 Absolutely.
0:02:08 So top of the funnel here, fundamentally, people don’t appreciate what’s actually happening with
0:02:08 TikTok.
0:02:10 Like shop is a component of that.
0:02:12 That’s the center of their model.
0:02:13 But you think about even restaurants.
0:02:14 You think about Google.
0:02:17 You think about Facebook, Meta ads.
0:02:19 Like all of the, there’s a paradigm shift.
0:02:25 So a good example, my now ex-wife and I went to Tokyo like a year and a half ago.
0:02:29 And if we went five years ago, she would have gone to Google to search for restaurants.
0:02:30 She would have yelped.
0:02:35 Now she goes on TikTok and wants to visually see what is going on, right?
0:02:37 The shopping is turning more live.
0:02:39 All of these things are fundamentally changing.
0:02:42 Even the creators of this last generation, the influencers,
0:02:45 they’re coming up off short form content.
0:02:48 We all know how important clipping and all of that stuff is.
0:02:54 By the way, I read that 30% of GenZ gets primary news source is TikTok.
0:02:58 And then same thing, primary search engines.
0:03:00 So in my company, we did a little poll there.
0:03:03 We were trying to work on our Google search result.
0:03:06 And I was asking our employees.
0:03:08 I was like, so when you Google for this, what do you do?
0:03:10 They go, I don’t really Google for that.
0:03:12 I just go to TikTok and type in the name.
0:03:14 And then whatever comes up on TikTok is what I use.
0:03:16 That blew my mind because I wasn’t using TikTok as a search engine.
0:03:18 Yep. And that’s the paradigm shift.
0:03:21 And that’s the opportunity because it’s so early.
0:03:23 And it’s, I don’t like the word like gamifiable,
0:03:25 but when you just think through these new models
0:03:28 and like how information is being shared,
0:03:30 that’s where the brands of the future are being created.
0:03:32 That’s where the artists of the future are being created.
0:03:34 That’s where like fashion design,
0:03:37 it’s all happening through this new means of distribution, right?
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0:04:13 By the way, this happens in everything.
0:04:14 So I don’t know if you ever heard the story
0:04:17 of why Obama was so successful when he did his first presidential run.
0:04:18 Do you know this story?
0:04:20 Just tapping into the social media and all that.
0:04:21 It was kind of social media,
0:04:24 but he got this big grassroots movement going from two reasons.
0:04:27 One, he was one of the first presidents to build a huge email list.
0:04:30 At the time, president, the people who were running,
0:04:32 they were doing, you know, fundraisers.
0:04:33 They were doing TV.
0:04:35 They were doing, you know, traditional interviews,
0:04:36 but they weren’t building an email list.
0:04:39 And he built a giant email machine before anybody else.
0:04:41 And then he started using social media on top
0:04:42 and he basically hired people.
0:04:43 Trump did the same thing.
0:04:47 When Trump won in 2016, even this year, when he won,
0:04:50 he raised way less money than his opponent, right?
0:04:51 The first time way less than Hillary,
0:04:53 this time way less than Kamala/Biden.
0:04:55 And in both cases, it was because
0:04:56 he was using a different marketing strategy.
0:04:59 His was all Facebook and online.
0:05:01 And the others were doing all like traditional TV buys,
0:05:03 commercials, stuff like that.
0:05:05 And so when you see this, like you said, paradigm shift,
0:05:09 it’s like the new marketing opportunity.
0:05:11 If you can pounce on that, that’s where you can get rich.
0:05:15 Can you quickly just say like what you saw in Amazon
0:05:17 and when that was back in 20, what was it, 14 or so?
0:05:19 Yeah, and I’ll go from that to now.
0:05:21 Like the numbers were seeing the difference
0:05:23 in terms of like ROAS, right?
0:05:26 And it’s challenging for people
0:05:27 because it’s happening so fast.
0:05:30 Like I think a lot of people still think that,
0:05:32 you know, digital marketing is the new paradigm.
0:05:35 And like, actually, it’s like all the way over here now.
0:05:37 And so Amazon’s a great example.
0:05:40 I remember seeing brands like billboards
0:05:41 were a huge strategy back then.
0:05:43 I’m like, I started by working with brands.
0:05:44 That’s how I got my starters.
0:05:46 Like a consultant helping them sell on Amazon.
0:05:49 And I’m going, guys, you’re spending $50,000
0:05:50 on a billboard campaign.
0:05:53 And when you give me five grand to spend on Amazon,
0:05:56 you’re having trouble tracking that.
0:05:59 But right here, we’re making $5 for every dollar spent.
0:06:00 And this is me as a 22-year-old kid.
0:06:02 They’re like, no, this is the way it is.
0:06:03 Or like, you know, we’re going to double,
0:06:04 bodybuilding.com needs these.
0:06:07 Or, you know, GNC needs these.
0:06:09 And by the time I finally, it probably took me like a year.
0:06:11 I’m going, these guys are slow.
0:06:13 At first, you think you’re dumb.
0:06:14 And then so you realize they’re dumb.
0:06:15 You’re like, yo, I keep putting a dollar
0:06:17 into this magic money machine, and $5 are coming out.
0:06:18 Which is a 5X.
0:06:19 This is cool.
0:06:20 Roaz, for people who don’t know,
0:06:21 Roaz is return on ad spend.
0:06:23 So it’s for every dollar I spend on marketing,
0:06:25 how many dollars do I get back out in revenue?
0:06:26 Yep.
0:06:28 TV, billboards, you don’t really know, right?
0:06:30 The famous advertising saying is,
0:06:31 half of our advertising doesn’t work.
0:06:33 Problem is, we just don’t know which half.
0:06:35 And like, and actually for a while,
0:06:36 CMOs didn’t mind that.
0:06:38 Because if you can’t track it,
0:06:39 you can’t be held accountable.
0:06:41 But then Facebook and all these guys came,
0:06:42 and all of a sudden every dollar you put in,
0:06:46 you get a verified amount of how much revenue
0:06:47 you’re getting out of it.
0:06:48 Now you’re held accountable.
0:06:49 But that also presents an opportunity.
0:06:50 Yep.
0:06:51 Just for a kid like you, you’re like, all right,
0:06:54 if this works, it’s inarguable.
0:06:56 This is working, and I’m getting 5X return on my money.
0:06:58 And so now what we’re seeing,
0:07:00 what happens over time is that compresses, right?
0:07:02 Enough guys like me do podcasts like this.
0:07:03 Facebook guys are great.
0:07:06 Goddamn podcasting.
0:07:07 It shrinks the margin.
0:07:10 And so like you look at like an Amazon now,
0:07:11 which has been my, you know,
0:07:14 I’ve been doing ads on there for 10 years now.
0:07:16 And like a one to one and a half ROAS
0:07:18 is like good in a hot category,
0:07:19 which is not profitable.
0:07:20 But you’re, you know, that’s where you’re like,
0:07:23 okay, repeat customers, building the brand.
0:07:25 And so you have that modeled
0:07:27 as like that was the last couple of years.
0:07:28 And then TikTok comes along.
0:07:31 And that organic algorithm is so damn good.
0:07:34 And then if you, this is where now it almost goes back
0:07:36 to the billboard era of like actually tracking
0:07:38 becomes a little more difficult.
0:07:41 But we’re seeing just money spent on this,
0:07:43 this system, which we can get into a little bit later,
0:07:47 but this system is like seven, eight X minimum return
0:07:49 versus a one X ROAS.
0:07:52 And upwards of like, when I first did this with,
0:07:56 you know, Jimmy 18 months ago, it was like 30 X, you know?
0:07:58 And then the question was how can we spend more?
0:08:00 I mean, it’s like PEDs for marketing, right?
0:08:01 It’s like, if you’re going to get,
0:08:04 I can use this channel that not everybody understands
0:08:05 this playbook that not everybody understands
0:08:06 and gets seven X.
0:08:09 Or I go to Facebook and Amazon, I get a one X, 1.5 X.
0:08:11 I mean, that’s like cheat codes in the game of business.
0:08:12 Can you give people a sense?
0:08:16 How much revenue will your brands do
0:08:18 using this TikTok model this year?
0:08:21 So directly attributed to like TikTok shop,
0:08:25 we modeled probably like 40 ish million.
0:08:27 And overall the halo effect of all that.
0:08:28 100 plus.
0:08:29 So your brands, which is what you have three,
0:08:32 four, four brands or how many are you running right now?
0:08:35 Five that I either own, you know, a majority of
0:08:37 or a meaningful, yeah.
0:08:39 So five brands, you’re going to do over a hundred million
0:08:40 this year.
0:08:42 And this is the playbook you’re running across all of them.
0:08:42 Yep.
0:08:43 Yep.
0:08:45 And by the way, how old are these brands?
0:08:46 One or two years old.
0:08:48 It’s actually, it’s unreal.
0:08:51 And it, I don’t want to say things stressed
0:08:52 or scare me at this point,
0:08:53 but it’s one of those things where it’s like,
0:08:55 all right, we got to see this through
0:08:57 because the point of this conversation
0:08:58 is this is a gold rush.
0:09:00 And who knows how often these come around, right?
0:09:02 And so I feel like I’m getting to go back
0:09:05 to my 22 year old self and saying,
0:09:06 hey, like this is going to be really big,
0:09:09 you know, focus right now, do the right things,
0:09:11 execute, you know, and that’s where we’re at.
0:09:12 Is that a conversation you had with yourself
0:09:16 back when you were 22 and the Amazon gold rush was happening?
0:09:17 I took it really seriously, but you don’t know
0:09:18 what you don’t know, right?
0:09:20 And just, I didn’t appreciate like who knew
0:09:22 private equity was going to come in
0:09:24 and value all these brands and who knew that
0:09:27 Amazon was going to grow to that extent.
0:09:28 It was still kind of a discount site
0:09:29 when I was first on there.
0:09:31 That’s why brands didn’t want to do it.
0:09:33 You were in the supplements category.
0:09:35 And you said, the way the supplement game worked
0:09:37 was you had GNC or these like retail stores.
0:09:40 If you wanted to win in supplements,
0:09:41 you had to win in retail.
0:09:43 And then you’re like, Amazon came around
0:09:45 and changed the game because now you have this online retailer
0:09:48 and suddenly new supplement brands could win there
0:09:50 where you couldn’t get on the shelf at GNC.
0:09:50 Exactly.
0:09:52 And you were saying now the same thing’s happening
0:09:53 to Amazon.
0:09:54 Basically, there’s a new one’s coming in
0:09:57 and sweeping the rug and creating the opportunity
0:09:58 where maybe you weren’t going to win on Amazon,
0:09:59 but now you can win in this new way.
0:10:00 Is that right?
0:10:01 No, that’s exactly right.
0:10:03 It’s these continual paradigm shifts.
0:10:06 Like Amazon, it was, you know, there’s this brand BPI Sports
0:10:08 who was number one in GNC.
0:10:10 And then I just remember seeing that flip
0:10:13 where Amazon all of a sudden was like 50% of their revenue.
0:10:15 And then they didn’t focus on Amazon.
0:10:17 And then there were brands passing them up, right?
0:10:19 And so the brands of the future were born
0:10:20 on that digital platform.
0:10:22 And Amazon was another Facebook ads.
0:10:23 There are other digital means,
0:10:25 but we’ll call it the e-commerce era.
0:10:27 And now it’s happening again
0:10:28 with like the short form discovery era.
0:10:31 So it’s much less about what does your website look like
0:10:32 or this and that.
0:10:36 It’s like, how are you optimizing for this means
0:10:38 of information dissemination?
0:10:41 And, you know, I think when most people say gold rush,
0:10:42 if you call 10 things a gold rush,
0:10:43 then what’s really a gold rush?
0:10:45 But I think like you genuinely believe
0:10:48 you’re like, yo, this I’m not fucking around.
0:10:48 I’m serious.
0:10:50 Right now there is a window where something can happen.
0:10:53 Could you like make your pitch not to me,
0:10:57 but to like the next Rob who is 23, 24, 25, 30 years old.
0:10:58 It doesn’t matter what age,
0:11:00 but like to be like, yo, take this seriously.
0:11:02 You can even just direct a camera.
0:11:03 Like what’s your message to that person
0:11:04 about this opportunity?
0:11:05 No, honestly, I’m going to hijack.
0:11:07 I’m going to hijack your friend here.
0:11:09 How many, how many businesses a day do you think Ben looks at?
0:11:10 Just in general.
0:11:12 10 to 15 a day.
0:11:12 A day.
0:11:12 Yeah.
0:11:13 A day.
0:11:15 So he’s constantly looking at opportunities
0:11:17 and he sent me a text and he goes, oh,
0:11:19 this TikTok thing really does seem to be
0:11:22 the best opportunity to go from like no net worth
0:11:24 to like one to five million with no skills,
0:11:26 no background, no tech, whatever.
0:11:27 And when he sent me that,
0:11:30 because obviously I accept my opinion is going to be biased.
0:11:33 I do this every day, but when Ben sent me that,
0:11:35 I was like, oh, okay.
0:11:35 Yeah.
0:11:36 No, this is for real.
0:11:38 And then you look at our own, you know,
0:11:40 like we’re doing this, our company growth,
0:11:41 even though we have skills when we’ve been doing this a while,
0:11:44 but to go from zero to, you know,
0:11:48 100 plus million run rate is actually insane with no,
0:11:49 you know, it’s not raising, it’s more profitable.
0:11:50 Like super profitable.
0:11:50 Yeah.
0:11:52 You’ve bootstrapped these, right?
0:11:53 Like, you know, I’m a small investor on it,
0:11:55 but you didn’t take our money for the money.
0:11:55 You just.
0:11:56 No, we love you.
0:11:57 You just want us to be on board.
0:11:58 All right.
0:12:01 So let’s, let’s stop teasing.
0:12:02 What are the brands like?
0:12:03 Tell me some stories.
0:12:04 Like I don’t live in this world.
0:12:05 You do.
0:12:07 Tell me some stories of some brands that are crushing it.
0:12:08 What are some examples that make this real?
0:12:12 One that I think we can start with is this company,
0:12:13 Roos Research.
0:12:15 And this guy had a little Amazon experience.
0:12:16 He’s 27.
0:12:19 And this is like a nine figure play.
0:12:21 And I just couldn’t be more excited for him.
0:12:24 And so I’m like, you know, hyping it up here.
0:12:26 But he reaches out to me two and a half years ago
0:12:28 before TikTok’s even taken off.
0:12:29 And he’s like, hey, I’m thinking about starting
0:12:30 the supplement brand on Amazon.
0:12:32 He picked the right category.
0:12:33 He’s like longevity is getting bigger.
0:12:34 He gets on Amazon.
0:12:35 He’s doing all right.
0:12:39 And then TikTok comes around and he pours all in on it.
0:12:41 And two years later, I believe this month, you know,
0:12:45 he’ll do, he’ll do north of like $15 million between all online.
0:12:45 This month.
0:12:46 This month.
0:12:47 So what is the product?
0:12:48 What, what do they do?
0:12:49 Is it something research?
0:12:50 NAD, Roos Research.
0:12:53 And it’s that like, you know, it’s that every couple of years,
0:12:55 a new supplement category comes along where like,
0:12:57 this might have long-term staying power.
0:13:02 Collagen was the last huge one, you know, $4 billion exit,
0:13:04 vital proteins to Nestle.
0:13:05 And he’s betting on that.
0:13:08 And then he went all in, all bootstrapped, no raised money.
0:13:11 Not even like, he hasn’t revamped the brand yet.
0:13:13 If you go look at it, you’re like, oh, this looks a little like,
0:13:17 you know, it doesn’t look like a multi $100 million thing.
0:13:18 But that’s what he’s building.
0:13:19 So I’d say that one.
0:13:21 So he spotted the health trend early, early enough.
0:13:23 Not like the first guy, but early enough.
0:13:25 He built a good product in that space.
0:13:27 And you said, he went all in on TikTok.
0:13:28 Or, you know, figured out TikTok.
0:13:31 What did he actually do to make it work on TikTok?
0:13:33 He tapped into this creator model.
0:13:34 So should we go in detail on the–
0:13:35 Yeah, what’s the playbook?
0:13:37 So if I, for all these ideas, they have a playbook,
0:13:39 what’s the TikTok playbook?
0:13:41 So it’s important to preface it with this.
0:13:43 Everyone is used to YouTube, Instagram,
0:13:45 like where your followers matter, right?
0:13:48 Like you have an Instagram following of a million people.
0:13:49 That’s valuable.
0:13:51 TikTok shattered that.
0:13:52 And you have to look at everything
0:13:54 through the lens of views.
0:13:56 You start a brand new TikTok account.
0:13:57 I do. We walk out of here.
0:13:58 We start a new TikTok account together.
0:14:00 We start a video of dancing in the street.
0:14:03 That could get 10 million views, right?
0:14:06 And so that’s the center of this whole model.
0:14:07 Swings at bat.
0:14:09 Screw your brand page.
0:14:10 Like, Roos doesn’t have a brand page.
0:14:11 Right.
0:14:12 They might run ads.
0:14:15 But the key part of the model is how many people
0:14:19 can we get creating product specific content for the brand?
0:14:23 Like an army instead of one influencer becoming Kim Kardashian
0:14:24 or the rock or whatever,
0:14:26 instead of I will become famous and get a lot of followers
0:14:27 and then sell product.
0:14:31 What you’re saying is the new model is an army of people
0:14:32 need to create content.
0:14:34 And then it’s just the content wins.
0:14:36 One of those pieces of content needs to pop
0:14:37 in order for this to work.
0:14:38 Yep. Is that it?
0:14:39 Yeah, exactly.
0:14:43 And the first big use case of this before product was Android Tape.
0:14:44 Like that’s how he, can we say that?
0:14:45 Can we say that name?
0:14:47 That’s how he broke the internet.
0:14:48 Not even like intentionally,
0:14:51 but he had affiliates making Tape content.
0:14:51 Right.
0:14:53 And so he’s not taste on on TikTok,
0:14:57 but he has 500 hungry little minions who love him.
0:14:58 And he was paying them or they were just
0:14:59 inspired what was going on?
0:15:00 Yeah, there was an affiliate commission back
0:15:01 to make more videos for him.
0:15:04 So like, like you could get people paying $50 a month
0:15:06 by making this content.
0:15:08 He created basically like a content MLM almost.
0:15:08 Pretty much.
0:15:09 Yeah.
0:15:10 No, exactly.
0:15:12 So he, and what was his,
0:15:13 I mean, that’s kind of genius of him to do that
0:15:15 because no other, you know,
0:15:17 we were content creators, podcasters, whatever.
0:15:18 But if we created content,
0:15:21 we just put it on our channel and it was just us,
0:15:23 or like we would hire people to create clips for us.
0:15:26 But on our one channel, what he did was different.
0:15:28 He’s like, yo, here’s a bunch of raw material.
0:15:29 Send it, run it.
0:15:31 You figure out how to go viral.
0:15:33 And if you do, I’ll pay you what per view,
0:15:34 or what was he, what was he doing?
0:15:36 Per signup, they got back to the community
0:15:37 that would teach you how to do that.
0:15:38 Do you know what I mean?
0:15:41 And the end result was most googled man on the,
0:15:42 on the planet, right?
0:15:45 And so now you see that everywhere, streamers,
0:15:47 like Aiden Ross and those guys,
0:15:52 they spend six figures a month paying on a CPM metric,
0:15:55 paying people to chop up their streams
0:15:56 and put it out on new tips.
0:15:57 Like I do that, right?
0:15:59 With my, my stuff, like someone from my team
0:16:02 will chop this up and you might see it.
0:16:03 – Right. – Swings it back.
0:16:04 And so now take that same idea.
0:16:05 – But sorry, when you say my team,
0:16:07 do you literally mean like my employees
0:16:08 or you’re like, I just- – Both.
0:16:09 Like people out there. – Both.
0:16:11 We’re trying to hit it from everywhere.
0:16:12 And brands are too.
0:16:14 Like this is the fundamental thing.
0:16:17 How can you get as much good quality swings it back
0:16:18 as humanly possible?
0:16:20 And sometimes it’s freelance people.
0:16:21 And then sometimes it’s internally.
0:16:24 It’s a little harder on shops so beautiful
0:16:26 because the model itself incentivizes it
0:16:29 without us having to change hands.
0:16:31 You know, like internally, I’m trying to figure out metrics,
0:16:33 like, you know, see, like all that, right?
0:16:36 Whereas if you have talented creators, they just go.
0:16:37 And that, that was tapes too.
0:16:39 It worked, it fed itself.
0:16:40 The, the economics fed itself.
0:16:42 So shop feeds itself.
0:16:45 So just to explain, instead of just sending it
0:16:48 to famous people, influencers or random people,
0:16:50 what happened was certain people realized,
0:16:52 “Oh shit, I can make money doing this.”
0:16:53 So instead of just doing it once,
0:16:56 “What if I made five videos a day?
0:16:57 What if I started picking brands
0:16:58 that I thought would perform well?”
0:17:01 And they started making $500 a month and $5,000 a month.
0:17:02 You have creators that make-
0:17:04 How much does like the most successful creators
0:17:05 make per month?
0:17:06 Just creators.
0:17:06 They don’t own the brand.
0:17:08 They don’t buy inventory.
0:17:10 They don’t have to run the operations.
0:17:11 They’re just making TikToks.
0:17:12 – What do you think?
0:17:12 – What do you think?
0:17:15 I’ve heard that like,
0:17:16 there’s like 20 year olds
0:17:18 that are able to make a hundred grand a month.
0:17:19 – Yeah, like, yeah.
0:17:21 Like a lot, and way more than you’d think.
0:17:23 I was at an event for one of our,
0:17:25 with the, you know, the group that I own,
0:17:29 a little piece of, and we’ve had 27 people
0:17:33 make over $100,000 a month as freelance creators.
0:17:35 And the important part is these are not influencers.
0:17:38 Like Jacqueline, I have a YouTube video with,
0:17:41 she was working as a server eight months ago,
0:17:43 making 20 bucks an hour.
0:17:45 And she made like 180 grand last month.
0:17:48 – And what they did, they go in the lab
0:17:49 and they’re basically like, all right,
0:17:52 I have to figure out what content can I create
0:17:53 that will make this product, you know,
0:17:55 interesting, appealing to other people.
0:17:56 And then they get like,
0:17:59 they’re making like 30, 40, 50 videos a month.
0:18:00 Most of them don’t do well,
0:18:01 but a few of them start doing well.
0:18:02 And they’re studying and learning,
0:18:05 oh, if I do this hook, that grabs people,
0:18:06 but it’s not converting.
0:18:07 Okay, what can make it convert better?
0:18:08 And they’re just specializing
0:18:10 in the craft of short form content.
0:18:13 No, not too dissimilar than David Ogilvy in the past,
0:18:15 figuring out how to do print ads
0:18:16 that are going to convert.
0:18:17 All the great marketers in the past,
0:18:19 it’s just instead of going to an ad agency,
0:18:21 you’re going to these creator armies
0:18:23 where young people are specializing in
0:18:25 how to create short form content
0:18:26 that moves forward. – In direct response marketing.
0:18:28 Yeah, this means that’s exactly what it is.
0:18:30 And there’s varying degrees of it.
0:18:33 There’s like the innovators who can sit down.
0:18:34 The algorithm is the algorithm.
0:18:35 You have to capture attention.
0:18:36 You have to keep them watching.
0:18:39 And then, you know, something to convert.
0:18:40 And then there’s the second wave of that.
0:18:43 Whereas, you know, one of the innovators hits what’s works.
0:18:46 And then there’s literally 500 kids
0:18:47 that are going to copy that same idea.
0:18:50 Only make 20% of it.
0:18:52 But then what does that do for the brand?
0:18:54 Right? Then all of a sudden you have all these videos
0:18:55 going nuclear.
0:18:56 I bet you Ruth has. – So show me a video.
0:18:58 So what’s an example of one of these videos
0:18:59 that– – This is a great one.
0:19:01 I think this video, last I checked,
0:19:04 I think this video had made this kid close to $50,000.
0:19:06 – The creator. – The single video.
0:19:10 And he paired, you know, a modern thing, Trump,
0:19:13 like getting elected with conspiracy
0:19:14 and all this, whatever.
0:19:16 – And just got into office one day ago
0:19:18 and is already going after one of the most
0:19:20 predatory industries in the world.
0:19:21 Watch this.
0:19:22 – We have a public health system that does–
0:19:23 – So that was the hook.
0:19:26 So the hook was, first he’s writing the news trend, Trump,
0:19:27 instead of saying, “Hey, I have a product
0:19:28 I’d like to tell you about.”
0:19:30 No, no, no, he starts by talking about Trump
0:19:32 and then he has this curiosity.
0:19:33 What would you call it?
0:19:35 – It’s that information gap, right?
0:19:36 Where all of a sudden he went after
0:19:37 one of the biggest industries in the world.
0:19:39 What did he do? – Most predatory.
0:19:39 Which one?
0:19:41 What’s that industry and what did he do?
0:19:42 – And then you hear in the background
0:19:45 that mystery, it’s the trending sound, you know?
0:19:47 – This will change starting today.
0:19:48 – But you know what’s crazy?
0:19:51 His buddy, Donald White, was coming after the same thing.
0:19:51 – By the way, even how raw this is,
0:19:55 he’s taking a video of like an Android phone.
0:19:55 – Yeah.
0:19:57 – So it does, you don’t think this is an advertisement?
0:19:58 – No, exactly.
0:20:02 And everything nowadays is shifting to that
0:20:04 just raw, organic, like you don’t want to feel
0:20:06 like an influencer’s selling you.
0:20:07 And that’s not what he is.
0:20:10 You know, like this is like, this is a random dude
0:20:11 making- – Telling you a story.
0:20:12 – Yeah, okay, let’s see.
0:20:14 – Madison, you put the raw material-
0:20:16 – I can skip ahead a little bit here.
0:20:17 You know, it’s the Trump bit.
0:20:19 And then- – Got data white.
0:20:20 – More social proof.
0:20:22 – This is where it all gets interesting
0:20:24 because around the same time, they were trying to silence
0:20:26 this doctor- – Is this the scientist now?
0:20:29 – Yeah, yeah, Berg, it’s another famous scientist.
0:20:33 So they’re building, he’s building this case for something.
0:20:34 Still hasn’t told you about the product, right?
0:20:36 – Fungus problem that lives up in through here.
0:20:41 And oil of oregano is the absolute best remedy for that.
0:20:46 It’s antimicrobial, antibacterial, anti-fungal, anti-candida,
0:20:50 anti-viral, anti-parasites, and anti-mold.
0:20:52 – Now, I did some research and not only-
0:20:55 – So really, you get the idea, right?
0:20:56 And then he still hasn’t told you.
0:20:59 He’s building this idea of oil oregano.
0:21:01 And then at the end, I believe he-
0:21:03 – But I’ve been taking two of these pearls-
0:21:04 – Sells you. – I feel like I’m coming down
0:21:06 with something and it knocks that shit right out.
0:21:08 The only bad thing about this product
0:21:11 is how fast they sell out, especially around this season.
0:21:13 So if you’re sick of being sick
0:21:14 and you wanna try these out for yourself
0:21:16 and you see that orange cart right there,
0:21:17 that means they are still in stock
0:21:20 and the flash sale is still live.
0:21:21 – Masterful TikTok shop video.
0:21:23 That’s a masterful TikTok shop video.
0:21:25 And if you don’t market and you see it and you go, yeah,
0:21:26 but you forget like the average person sees that
0:21:29 and they’re like, you know, they’re going to the coffee table
0:21:31 at work the next day and talking about,
0:21:33 man, you know, like mold and fungus is everywhere.
0:21:35 But I hear you take this oil oregano-
0:21:37 – Right, dude, I got cousins that will send me this.
0:21:39 And they’ll be like, yeah, you gotta start taking this.
0:21:40 Yeah, the government’s out to get you.
0:21:42 Yeah, whatever they have these like,
0:21:45 that conspiracy combined with, you know,
0:21:48 in ancient times, this used to be the way we do things.
0:21:50 And then, you know, his last like scarcity call to action
0:21:54 where he’s like, the only downside is they sell out so fast.
0:21:56 So if you see the button is orange,
0:21:57 that means they still have it.
0:21:58 Just get it while I’m still there.
0:22:00 – You better go and it’s on, it’s on flash sale right now.
0:22:03 You know, it’s like, did you see, you know,
0:22:04 the brand you’re invested in,
0:22:07 did you have anyone send you content from that at any point?
0:22:08 Like just-
0:22:10 – Not only did I have people send me content from that brand,
0:22:13 which we were, the founder of it doesn’t want us
0:22:14 talking about it, all right.
0:22:18 But then also he sent me a video of other people
0:22:22 creating videos being like, I’m tired of hearing about this,
0:22:24 which is like the ultimate sign of respect.
0:22:26 It means it dominated TikTok so much,
0:22:27 which is like, the video was like,
0:22:29 if I see one more video telling me about this,
0:22:31 I’m not going to buy your thing.
0:22:34 But like even that video had seven million views
0:22:36 of the person complaining about seeing this so much,
0:22:38 which means mission accomplished.
0:22:40 – We got 600 million views in a month.
0:22:43 Like that is an insane, insane number.
0:22:44 And that was before shop.
0:22:46 – How much did you spend that month
0:22:47 to get 600 million views?
0:22:50 – It was a little over a hundred grand.
0:22:51 That was before shop too.
0:22:54 So shop now is changing the unit economics.
0:22:56 I’d say like not in the favor of the brands,
0:22:58 but the end of the day, it adds a level of scale.
0:23:00 But now with commissions and stuff,
0:23:01 that was when we were like sending it to Amazon
0:23:03 and just, we’re not even tracking it.
0:23:05 We’re just like, if we can get 600 million views,
0:23:08 we’re going to be all right for a hundred grand.
0:23:10 – Well, it creates this amazing flywheel, right?
0:23:12 Because you hear about a brand a bunch on TikTok,
0:23:14 you go then Google it and click the link
0:23:17 or you go to Amazon and you search on Amazon.
0:23:19 It tells Google, it tells Amazon,
0:23:20 people are searching for this brand name.
0:23:22 It ups your rank there.
0:23:25 So now you get organic ranking off of this social,
0:23:27 in addition to the direct conversions on social.
0:23:28 – Yep, not exactly.
0:23:31 – Where do you go to find these brands that are crushing it?
0:23:33 – This tool, and this is the other crazy thing.
0:23:37 CalloData is directly plugged in to TikTok’s API.
0:23:38 – CalloData?
0:23:41 – CalloData, K-A-L-O data, D-A-T-A.
0:23:44 Like, so they, if you go to the homepage here,
0:23:47 you’re seeing top products, top videos.
0:23:48 So you can go look at like-
0:23:49 – You can study.
0:23:51 – You can study, that’s that kid’s video.
0:23:53 I know him, he’s in our group.
0:23:55 But that was like one of the top videos from last week.
0:23:58 – So if you go right now to like the top products,
0:23:59 what do you see?
0:24:02 And they just, it’s like rankings weekly,
0:24:03 or how do they do this?
0:24:06 – Yeah, so like beauty in personal care,
0:24:07 you can filter however you want.
0:24:08 So this is last-
0:24:09 – Are you in this list?
0:24:11 – This is last 30 days.
0:24:15 We are in this list.
0:24:18 Top five, and we’re not three, four, five.
0:24:20 (laughing)
0:24:26 – My friends, if you like MFM,
0:24:28 then you’re gonna like the following podcast.
0:24:30 It’s called Billion Dollar Moves.
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0:24:44 And with Billion Dollar Moves,
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0:25:08 Again, Billion Dollar Moves.
0:25:10 All right, back to the episode.
0:25:12 – And then I think if you expand it,
0:25:15 like we have a couple of products in the top 10.
0:25:16 – Can you talk about what your products are?
0:25:17 Which products can you talk about?
0:25:20 – Yeah, yeah, I mean, like a really good example has been–
0:25:21 – Are we gatekeeping here or are you–
0:25:22 – No, no, no, I don’t.
0:25:24 I mean, I yapp about stuff on Instagram all the time.
0:25:27 So Evil Goods has been a really good case study
0:25:31 of beef tallow in the skincare section.
0:25:33 – How’d you decide to do beef tallow?
0:25:35 – That was an investment.
0:25:37 And so one of our students or whatever
0:25:40 saw that category as similar to longevity.
0:25:44 Like, okay, holistic wellness is obviously becoming huge.
0:25:47 People don’t like toxic skincare.
0:25:48 This seems to have some good supporting.
0:25:51 Like it has this like grassroots Twitter movement
0:25:52 that lets bet on that.
0:25:54 And so, you know, that’s what we did.
0:25:57 And pretty much whenever you see the ability
0:26:00 to market to fear, like that big pharma
0:26:03 or whatever it might be or insecurities–
0:26:05 – Microplastics, whatever.
0:26:07 – Yeah, that will do well on this platform.
0:26:09 Like just period because people feel
0:26:10 like they’re learning something.
0:26:12 And so it checked all those boxes.
0:26:13 He came out with a crazy aggressive name.
0:26:17 Evil Goods is like, you know, we’ll see.
0:26:18 ‘Cause that could disrupt the ability
0:26:20 to like go to retail and stuff like that.
0:26:21 But at the same time–
0:26:22 – Liquid death.
0:26:23 – Yeah, so–
0:26:24 – Could be a liquid death or–
0:26:25 – Exactly, exactly.
0:26:26 So hopefully plan to flag on that.
0:26:29 But this thing has gone just nuclear.
0:26:31 – What’s your Cologne brand?
0:26:32 – Top Shelf.
0:26:35 And so this ties back to my thesis
0:26:38 that massive industries are overturned.
0:26:40 Like in these eras.
0:26:43 I want Top Shelf, it’s like a passion project of mine,
0:26:45 but I wanna build a creed for Gen Z.
0:26:47 You know, creed like fragrance.
0:26:50 And it presents the opportunity to do that.
0:26:51 So the way that Cologne,
0:26:54 like I don’t know much about Cologne,
0:26:57 but it seems like it’s kind of luxury
0:26:59 sold through retail traditionally.
0:27:02 Super high margin, like crazy margins is basically,
0:27:05 you know, watering a little bit of essential oil or whatever.
0:27:08 And so how do you sell that?
0:27:09 How do you make a popular,
0:27:11 how did you make a popular Cologne brand?
0:27:12 And can you say like revenue-wise
0:27:14 what that’s gonna do this year?
0:27:15 – We’ve been doing,
0:27:16 we’ve been doing close to a million bucks a month.
0:27:17 So it’s been,
0:27:19 but it’s a unique challenge for me that I like.
0:27:20 This ties back to,
0:27:22 I mean, seriously everyone in this world,
0:27:23 if you’re venturing into it,
0:27:26 pick something you like and see some area of disruption
0:27:28 and make stuff for yourself.
0:27:29 Like that’s really what I see.
0:27:31 And as I’ve gravitated more towards,
0:27:32 you know, we’ve talked about offline,
0:27:35 but I like high fashion, I like design.
0:27:38 And so this seems like the perfect segue for me
0:27:41 to go from consumable to something that can play
0:27:42 in that world, right?
0:27:43 – Fashion, culture.
0:27:44 – Yeah, exactly.
0:27:45 Exactly.
0:27:49 And so like like creed is relevant at like these big,
0:27:52 fragrance houses are relevant in Paris and stuff like that.
0:27:53 And so for me, it’s been a-
0:27:54 – I know it’s luxury
0:27:56 ’cause I have never heard of what you’re saying.
0:27:57 – Must be good.
0:27:59 – Have you seen creed or no?
0:28:00 You probably see a creed eventus.
0:28:03 It’s like a, you know, popular fragrance
0:28:05 that sells for $250 a bottle.
0:28:07 And so when I’m seeing that, I’m going,
0:28:09 I can, there’s a lot of margins for it.
0:28:10 – All right, so let’s walk through it.
0:28:12 So you’re like, all right, I want to go into Cologne.
0:28:13 You get it made, how?
0:28:14 Where’d you go to make it?
0:28:16 – So I had to hire a,
0:28:19 he called himself a professional nose, you know,
0:28:21 and there’s been like designing fragrances
0:28:22 for God knows how long.
0:28:23 – Okay.
0:28:24 – And so I’m learning-
0:28:26 – Did you Google this guy or how’d you find him?
0:28:27 – Relationship through our other business partner.
0:28:28 He had done skincare before
0:28:31 and this guy was like a known guy in the industry.
0:28:33 Charges an arm and a leg, made one good product.
0:28:35 Don’t think I like it, right?
0:28:37 So I’m like, how can we build this out internally?
0:28:40 And I’ve learned more about the industry.
0:28:42 Like, you know, what, smells actually fascinating.
0:28:44 Like, like how it makes people feel and-
0:28:45 – What’s fascinating about it?
0:28:48 – Just all the different, you know,
0:28:51 mechanisms and mixes and like, like,
0:28:53 you go to Abercrombie, you know exactly what it smells like.
0:28:55 It’s like, it can be a signature of branding.
0:28:58 It can be a signature of a, of a person, you know?
0:29:00 – Probably like the least used sense in marketing.
0:29:01 – So a thousand percent.
0:29:03 But do you think about like a fresh pair of Nike’s?
0:29:05 Like that, that’s intentional.
0:29:06 – Right.
0:29:06 New car smell.
0:29:07 – New car smell.
0:29:10 And so it’s just been a fun avenue to learn more.
0:29:12 And I’m far from an expert in it, just to be honest.
0:29:15 Like we have the one product we’re moving well with
0:29:16 and then we’re trying to build out-
0:29:17 – Oh wait, so tell me.
0:29:19 You went to the Nose, Nose makes something for you.
0:29:21 That’s what you use or you say you didn’t like it?
0:29:24 – So he actually made us eight different samples.
0:29:28 We, we chose the one he wanted to use.
0:29:29 We blow it up.
0:29:31 We did 700 grand in our first month.
0:29:34 It just gets murdered with bad reviews.
0:29:36 People hate it, like hate it.
0:29:36 And so now all of a sudden I got-
0:29:38 – You liked it or no?
0:29:39 – No.
0:29:40 – Yeah.
0:29:41 – You and yourself were like one star.
0:29:43 – Yeah. And I’m kind of, I didn’t hate it.
0:29:45 I didn’t hate it, but I wasn’t like, oh, I would,
0:29:46 I would wear this.
0:29:49 And, and, and at the time with Genius,
0:29:52 I was really big on making products for yourself
0:29:54 and like being all in on that.
0:29:55 And then we have all these things going nuclear
0:29:57 and some like money.
0:29:58 – Right, where’s the money?
0:29:59 – $90 bottle.
0:30:01 – I’m trying to make something for myself,
0:30:03 but this time it’s money instead of a product.
0:30:05 – And, and honestly I blew up in my face a little bit.
0:30:07 And so we revamped on the, the second one and had a,
0:30:09 you know, it’s a, it’s a winner.
0:30:10 And like it was very methodical.
0:30:13 And so that’s the one doing like a million bucks a month.
0:30:15 – But before he made a billion a month,
0:30:16 he must have made a dollar a month.
0:30:18 So how did it, what did you do initially
0:30:18 to get that to work?
0:30:19 So you go to the creators.
0:30:20 – That was the nice part.
0:30:23 The, the first fragrance, we got the playbook,
0:30:25 like the angles that worked and.
0:30:26 – So good marketing, bad product.
0:30:28 – Yeah, exactly.
0:30:29 – So what was the angles that work?
0:30:31 Give us an example for that.
0:30:31 – That’s another one.
0:30:34 It’s, it’s huge in this, this Gen Z era.
0:30:36 And I don’t like saying Gen Z actually,
0:30:40 it’s TikTok person and, and there’s a billion users
0:30:41 on there, right?
0:30:43 So it’s, it’s a disservice to the app to say
0:30:45 it’s just Gen Z.
0:30:48 Although that’s where a lot of these ideas percolate from,
0:30:51 but like the self-improvement and dating
0:30:54 and all these little boxes that this generation’s trying
0:30:57 to check are hyper relevant to smell.
0:30:58 Like, like that’s a thing in their world.
0:31:01 Like how do you smell around the girl you’re trying to,
0:31:02 to talk to?
0:31:03 Very easy fear.
0:31:04 – Yeah, what’s the name of your thing?
0:31:05 It’s like her loss.
0:31:06 – Her loss.
0:31:07 Where did that come from?
0:31:08 That’s genius.
0:31:10 – It’s actually, I went through this whole like Drake era
0:31:12 on my personal brand and he has an album called her loss.
0:31:15 It’s like, don’t reinvent the wheel.
0:31:17 They succeeded.
0:31:20 What would be like a killer hook to sell that cologne on?
0:31:22 – They do actual skits.
0:31:25 So actually, actually one that worked really well
0:31:27 is we had female creators do it
0:31:29 and they started calling it like pussy magnet juice.
0:31:32 If you gotta believe that.
0:31:34 My boyfriend came home and this or whatever, you know.
0:31:37 And really high converting stuff.
0:31:38 – There’s a story.
0:31:39 So I just did a podcast with this guy, Craig Clemens.
0:31:40 Do you know Craig?
0:31:41 So he-
0:31:42 – Monster.
0:31:43 – He told the story of like OG marketing.
0:31:44 That’s super relevant for this.
0:31:45 So I’m gonna retell it
0:31:47 ’cause his episode is gonna come out too.
0:31:51 But he talks about like one of the greatest headlines
0:31:52 he’s ever read in marketing.
0:31:54 He goes, I have four for you.
0:31:56 And the first one he told was he talked about this headline.
0:31:58 He goes, here’s the story.
0:31:59 This guy’s a famous marketer.
0:32:00 He’s one of the best.
0:32:02 He’s known as one of the best marketers on earth.
0:32:04 And this Hollywood actor hits him up
0:32:07 and he says, my wife wants to launch her own perfume brand.
0:32:10 Will you come and help us with the marketing of it?
0:32:11 So he goes, he meets the wife.
0:32:12 Wife says, I want to do this.
0:32:14 He goes, say no more.
0:32:16 I’ll make this happen.
0:32:18 And he goes and he starts studying fragrances
0:32:19 and he goes to a mall.
0:32:21 And you know, the guys at the mall who are like, you know,
0:32:23 is it like a make your own fragrance thing?
0:32:24 Or like, you know, you have all these oils
0:32:26 you can mix your own.
0:32:27 And he just asked the guy, he goes,
0:32:29 what’s the number one fragrance that women love?
0:32:32 And he goes, oh, sir, easy.
0:32:33 China musk.
0:32:34 And he goes, China musk?
0:32:35 And he goes, yes, China musk.
0:32:37 Smells good.
0:32:39 So he takes it and this is like, you know,
0:32:40 he’s only a couple of weeks in,
0:32:43 but he doesn’t go back to the Hollywood wife.
0:32:44 He sits on it.
0:32:46 He’s like, I need to make her wait for her to value this.
0:32:49 I need to make it feel more important.
0:32:51 So after three months, he comes back to her and he goes,
0:32:53 I’d like to meet you, I have something for you.
0:32:54 She goes, okay, what do you got?
0:32:56 He goes, I’ve traveled the world.
0:32:58 I’ve tested, you know, thousands of things I’ve studied.
0:33:00 I’ve talked to everybody and I found it.
0:33:02 I found the greatest fragrance for you.
0:33:03 She smells the China musk.
0:33:05 She’s like, this is perfect.
0:33:07 In the meantime, he goes to a jeweler.
0:33:09 And he goes, I need you to make me
0:33:11 the fanciest bottle you can come up with for this thing.
0:33:14 It’s like this, like whatever diamond shape or whatever.
0:33:15 And so he comes up with this beautiful bottle.
0:33:16 He’s got China musk.
0:33:19 And then he tells her, we’re going to do a launch.
0:33:21 And she goes, yeah, we could do it at this like small place.
0:33:25 And he goes, no, no, no, we need to do it somewhere bigger.
0:33:28 How about the crown plaza hotel?
0:33:29 And she’s like, that’s huge.
0:33:32 Like we would need a few thousand people to show up.
0:33:34 He goes, that’s my job.
0:33:36 So she, she begs the bet, she books the hotel.
0:33:38 And she’s like, you better not embarrass me.
0:33:39 So he goes home, he’s like, I gotta figure out a way
0:33:43 to get thousands of people to come to this grand launch.
0:33:45 And he goes home and he writes this headline
0:33:49 that says, wife of famous Hollywood star
0:33:52 swears under oath that her new perfume
0:33:56 does not contain illegal sexual stimulants.
0:33:59 And he goes, she is, and then the sub, the sub is,
0:34:02 he’s like to prove its safety
0:34:06 and that it is not made of, not what people are claiming.
0:34:08 She is doing a live testing
0:34:11 where she will prove without a shadow of a doubt
0:34:14 that this, that this fragrance works and is safe.
0:34:17 At the crown plaza hotel on this date
0:34:20 and like 10,000 people show up to this thing.
0:34:24 It’s like packed, he cut, he hires like armed security guards
0:34:27 to walk in with handcuffs to a briefcase
0:34:28 that contains the perfume.
0:34:29 So people see them walking in, they’re like,
0:34:31 holy shit, what is this thing
0:34:33 that’s being presented in this way?
0:34:34 And there’s this whole story,
0:34:36 it ends up becoming this best seller.
0:34:38 And he’s like that headline, but he’s like,
0:34:39 he broke down the elements.
0:34:42 He’s like, wife of Hollywood star, curiosity gap,
0:34:46 which, which Hollywood star swears under oath, right?
0:34:48 That’s kind of like the conspiracy, the seriousness,
0:34:50 the drama, the stakes of the situation.
0:34:51 – It hits every point.
0:34:53 – And then it doesn’t contain sexual stimulants.
0:34:54 So like, how good is it?
0:34:57 People think it’s so good, it should be illegal.
0:35:00 And, you know, evil goods or the stuff you’re talking about
0:35:02 with like your, your cologne is like, it’s those same notes.
0:35:04 Now that was back in the, I don’t know,
0:35:05 like the seventies or something like that.
0:35:07 It was a long time ago, but same playbook,
0:35:09 just read on today in 2025.
0:35:11 – And then Craig took it and put it in Facebook ads
0:35:12 and I’m taking it and putting it.
0:35:13 – Put it on TikTok.
0:35:15 – Quick side note too, for anyone,
0:35:18 I know there’s like a vast internet world of gurus
0:35:20 and people that talk about stuff.
0:35:24 And if a guru or like talking head in the marketing space
0:35:27 doesn’t know Craig, they’re not really tapped in on the world.
0:35:28 – Simple test.
0:35:30 – Yeah, like it’s actually like simple, very,
0:35:32 like anyone that like, I don’t know Craig personally.
0:35:34 I don’t know if he knows me,
0:35:38 but I know that operation is run like fucking Skunkworks.
0:35:41 And like he is, he has popularized a lot of things.
0:35:44 Like actually that framework has been seen on a Facebook ad
0:35:46 from him that his name’s, you know, that he’s,
0:35:47 you don’t, you don’t see him.
0:35:48 – You don’t know him, yeah.
0:35:49 – Exactly.
0:35:50 – He’s a mad man.
0:35:51 What else could you show me?
0:35:52 So give me a couple other stories
0:35:53 that you think are pretty badass
0:35:55 that we should know about the stuff that’s working on TikTok.
0:35:58 – Underbrush gum is another example
0:36:01 of really startup scrappy entrepreneur
0:36:03 that’s doing millions a month now
0:36:05 who makes this gum himself.
0:36:07 And they built their own factory
0:36:10 and he’s had a crazy rush over the last month,
0:36:14 but like brands will go like this and then down.
0:36:15 And you gotta find the new angles, right?
0:36:17 Like this, that Trump video I just showed you
0:36:19 will work for a month and then it’ll go away.
0:36:22 Underbrush just hit a huge one this last month
0:36:24 playing into TikToks going away.
0:36:26 My small family business is gonna get crushed.
0:36:30 And it was the founder doing like some ASMR video
0:36:32 of like how he’s making it.
0:36:33 – Right, while talking about that.
0:36:36 – Yeah, well, no, and then he just gave that out.
0:36:37 And then the army picked it up
0:36:39 and all put their own play on it.
0:36:40 – Gotcha.
0:36:41 – So it was the same angle over and over again
0:36:45 with different voices and some claiming just their business.
0:36:48 But that did millions for him over the last like 30 days.
0:36:49 – Can I put you on the spot?
0:36:50 – Yeah.
0:36:51 – Let’s do a little magic trick.
0:36:54 So let’s brainstorm live.
0:36:55 – Yeah.
0:36:56 – A hundred million dollar TikTok brand.
0:36:57 – Yep.
0:36:59 – So where do we start?
0:37:00 I’ll be your wingman.
0:37:01 I’ll be your brainstorming partner.
0:37:04 – Let’s go right into Gen Z and this younger generation
0:37:05 that there’s so much change.
0:37:07 Like we’ve talked about looks maxing, right?
0:37:09 – We’ll explain what that is so.
0:37:13 – Looks maxing, it’s interesting to say the least.
0:37:15 But there’s this subset of like young men
0:37:18 that are hyper focused on looks
0:37:21 almost to the point of like it being super feminine.
0:37:22 But like-
0:37:23 – They’re optimizing it.
0:37:24 – Yeah, exactly.
0:37:26 And it’s like, again, their hearts in a good place.
0:37:29 Most things can be boiled down to basic human desires
0:37:32 of like they want to reproduce, right?
0:37:34 But how they’re going about it is all of a sudden like,
0:37:37 have you seen those funny videos on morning routines now?
0:37:40 It’s almost like Patrick Bateman-esque, but-
0:37:41 – It’s just like so elaborate.
0:37:43 – Yeah, I can trim each.
0:37:45 Like that’s, but there’s a market there.
0:37:47 There’s not enough products there.
0:37:48 Like the-
0:37:49 – So it’s kind of like a community.
0:37:50 It sounds silly, right?
0:37:51 When you say it sounds superficial,
0:37:54 but you know, how different is that than, you know,
0:37:56 maybe the bodybuilding movement in the early days.
0:37:58 What’s like these guys who take it really seriously
0:37:59 and they’re counting the reps and the sets
0:38:01 and they’re figuring out, you know,
0:38:04 what type of training is going to lead to like, you know,
0:38:08 this muscle right back here, the lower head of the tricep.
0:38:09 And it’s to anyone else.
0:38:10 It sounds like overkill, but they got into it.
0:38:11 They got passionate about it.
0:38:12 And they wanted to like,
0:38:14 what if we took this to the end degree?
0:38:17 Brian Johnson doing that with longevity right now.
0:38:18 Yeah, it sounds crazy.
0:38:18 It’s easy to make fun of them.
0:38:22 But he’s like, I’m going to take it to the full money.
0:38:23 And there’s people who like rallied behind that.
0:38:24 And they think that that’s cool.
0:38:27 And you’re saying, look, Maxing is this early wave
0:38:28 where people are doing that.
0:38:31 They’re taking, the guys taking their looks
0:38:33 as seriously as women take their looks.
0:38:34 Yep.
0:38:35 Because we all know women have this huge, you know,
0:38:38 like tutorials on eyelash extensions
0:38:40 and every little, you know, nook and cranny.
0:38:41 Now you’re saying guys are doing it.
0:38:43 It’s happening exactly for guys.
0:38:44 Okay.
0:38:46 And there’s no, it’s an underserved market.
0:38:47 And you’ve seen products like,
0:38:48 there’s a product called jar size.
0:38:49 Have you seen that?
0:38:51 Oh, your size, like your jaw line?
0:38:52 Yeah, exactly.
0:38:54 That’s like the one of the core foundations of looks Maxing.
0:38:56 And so that product blew up.
0:38:57 Right.
0:38:58 Like exercising.
0:39:00 Literally just, you just, you just bite it.
0:39:01 He said, does it work?
0:39:02 Does it not?
0:39:03 I don’t know.
0:39:05 But then, you know, kids are viewing.
0:39:07 And so you’re just studying culture, it seems like.
0:39:08 Here’s watching.
0:39:11 And I want to point out one thing, which is,
0:39:13 I had a really early friend in Silicon Valley,
0:39:14 teach me this.
0:39:15 I never forgot it.
0:39:18 He was the first product manager at Twitter.
0:39:19 And if you remember, Twitter at the time
0:39:22 was really like made fun of when it came out.
0:39:24 Cause it was, you would text a phone number.
0:39:24 There was no app.
0:39:27 You just text a phone number, whatever you wanted.
0:39:29 And anybody who was subscribed to your phone number
0:39:32 would get a message that says like Sean’s eating.
0:39:34 Just like, it was just saying, I’m eating a ham sandwich.
0:39:35 And so it got made fun of.
0:39:37 If you go look up old tech crunch articles,
0:39:38 people make fun of it.
0:39:39 It’s this like frivolous, stupid thing.
0:39:43 But it turns out, you know,
0:39:45 now it’s like the beacon of free speech.
0:39:46 Like that’s what happens in the world, right?
0:39:49 And so at the time I go, why’d you take the job at Twitter?
0:39:51 Did it seem like the next big thing?
0:39:52 He goes, no.
0:39:54 But he goes, I had figured out that any time
0:39:56 there’s a phenomenon of behavior that you see as weird,
0:39:58 you don’t even understand why they’re doing it,
0:40:01 but they are undeniably, they are doing it.
0:40:05 You should lean in as an investor or like an entrepreneur.
0:40:06 That’s your signal to lean in.
0:40:08 Whereas most people use that same signal
0:40:11 and they point, they laugh or they push away.
0:40:12 – Yep.
0:40:14 And it gets harder the older you get.
0:40:16 But staying tapped in on that
0:40:20 and not being oblivious to like the change in the future.
0:40:22 Like, cause that was my dad with Instagram.
0:40:25 Like what a stupid platform people posting pictures.
0:40:28 And now everyone knows you have to have an Instagram.
0:40:29 And so that’s happening again.
0:40:31 And I think it’s great advice.
0:40:33 – Like we were hanging out with Mr. Beast last week
0:40:35 and he has this thing he says, which is,
0:40:38 you’re crazy until you’re successful, then you’re a genius.
0:40:39 – Yep.
0:40:41 – And he goes, I’ve been doing the same thing the whole time.
0:40:43 You know, I used to sit in my bedroom
0:40:44 and make ridiculous videos.
0:40:45 At the time I had no money.
0:40:47 So his ridiculous videos back then
0:40:49 were me counting to 100,000.
0:40:51 And it’s like a 19 hour video or something.
0:40:53 Or him taking a plastic knife
0:40:56 and cutting through a plastic table with just like a knife.
0:40:58 And he’s like, it was just a stunt.
0:41:01 Now it’s like taking a bulldozer
0:41:03 and cutting through the Eiffel Tower, right?
0:41:04 Like he just scaled it up.
0:41:07 But he’s like, at that time I was seen as stupid and crazy.
0:41:09 And why are you wasting all your time on this YouTube thing?
0:41:11 Go to school, get a degree, get a good job.
0:41:14 And now I’m this, you know, I used to be weird.
0:41:16 Now they call me passionate.
0:41:20 I used to be, you know, I used to be kind of like, you know,
0:41:22 crazy, now I’m obsessed.
0:41:24 And he’s like, I didn’t change the whole time.
0:41:27 And so kind of what you’re saying is
0:41:29 you see the culture doing something
0:41:30 that seems novel, seems new.
0:41:33 Instinct as somebody who’s a little bit older is.
0:41:34 That’s stupid.
0:41:35 That’s stupid.
0:41:37 And now you’re like, get curious instead.
0:41:39 Be, my advice is be an observer,
0:41:42 not a consumer on all of these platforms.
0:41:43 And so observe what’s actually happening.
0:41:45 Like hold your opinion to yourself.
0:41:48 Just be super matter of fact and observe.
0:41:52 ‘Cause if looks maxing views are going up month over month,
0:41:53 that just is.
0:41:55 I don’t really care what your opinion on it is.
0:41:58 Like that just is, that’s fact, right?
0:42:00 And work backwards from that.
0:42:02 But so looks maxing, I mean, with that,
0:42:04 all of a sudden it’s literally,
0:42:06 this is how broad it becomes.
0:42:08 Just like when pet supplements became a thing on Amazon,
0:42:12 it’s a category that becomes potential billions overnight
0:42:14 with nothing in it.
0:42:16 And so men, like who makes men’s skincare products well?
0:42:19 Like two or three brands that aren’t even focused on it.
0:42:22 And so, I mean, right there you can build anything.
0:42:24 So you would be like, look maxing trend,
0:42:27 go and then you would brainstorm maybe like skincare.
0:42:30 Mastic gum, like jawline stuff.
0:42:31 Yeah.
0:42:33 I like to look at exploding topics.
0:42:35 And I like to still look at Amazon data.
0:42:37 Like there’s different tools you can use
0:42:38 and you’ll see searches for those things.
0:42:39 And do you get afraid?
0:42:41 Oh, somebody’s already doing this or whatever.
0:42:44 No, it’s like more validation of the idea.
0:42:46 And then you’re gonna try to out horse power them
0:42:47 on the marketing.
0:42:49 And then you come up with the hooks.
0:42:51 So like, what would be like an example of a hook?
0:42:53 Let’s say, let’s just go looks maxing.
0:42:55 Now, what’s an example of the product?
0:42:57 It would be like a gum or like a jaw thing
0:42:59 or you think skincare, which one would you go into?
0:43:00 Let’s just say a gum.
0:43:01 Because what?
0:43:03 Consumable, novel.
0:43:06 Repeat buys, probably relatively straightforward to do.
0:43:07 Okay.
0:43:08 And now you have a gum, right?
0:43:09 We got our product.
0:43:12 You wanna name it as part of our improv here?
0:43:13 Ooh.
0:43:14 (laughs)
0:43:15 Charge CPT.
0:43:16 Yeah.
0:43:18 It’s gonna be prompt, ’cause you use AI for a lot of stuff.
0:43:18 A ton.
0:43:19 I actually do.
0:43:20 Yeah, let’s do it.
0:43:21 Let’s go on and charge CPT.
0:43:22 Let me do it.
0:43:23 Yeah.
0:43:25 It’s actually gotten so, so good.
0:43:29 Do you think the jaw angle is the trick with the gum
0:43:31 or would it be breath or what do you think would be?
0:43:32 No, it would be jaw.
0:43:34 You’d call them feminine in some capacity
0:43:37 for not having a strong.
0:43:38 I like how your brain went there.
0:43:39 Like I have this phrase that I say,
0:43:42 which is the only positioning is counter positioning.
0:43:43 Yeah.
0:43:45 Like a lot of people just wanna say their position.
0:43:45 Oh, we’re healthy.
0:43:46 We’re good for you.
0:43:47 We don’t.
0:43:49 And it’s like everybody is saying those same things.
0:43:50 So you gotta be counter.
0:43:52 You gotta have something you’re, is the enemy
0:43:54 or you gotta call, you know, diagnose a problem
0:43:55 and then sell the solution.
0:43:56 So the only positioning is counter positioning.
0:43:59 So what you’re saying is if you’re not working on your jaw,
0:44:01 you probably have a feminine jaw.
0:44:01 Exactly.
0:44:02 And if you can live with that,
0:44:03 if you could sleep at night with that,
0:44:04 that’s on you.
0:44:05 Okay, yeah.
0:44:07 Okay, so I started by asking Charge CPT,
0:44:09 like do you understand looks maxing?
0:44:11 Yes, it’s about small, natural tweaks.
0:44:14 The goal is to maximize aesthetic appeal,
0:44:16 emphasis on facial harmetry, symmetry
0:44:18 and overall attractiveness.
0:44:24 I’m creating a product for a jaw line,
0:44:29 jaw line enhancement gum every day.
0:44:31 And I like, I like dual meanings and stuff too.
0:44:33 I love when names have like,
0:44:35 you know, I got like double entendres.
0:44:36 I like, I like stuff like that.
0:44:37 So that’s where I would probably go with this.
0:44:40 I would say that would consume every day.
0:44:45 I’m looking for a clever, powerful name
0:44:48 that has, you know, dual meaning, chisel.
0:44:51 So chisel’s a nice, I feel like that’s a nice name.
0:44:52 Is that what I gave you?
0:44:53 Yeah, chisel’s the first one.
0:44:58 Masticate is chewing, but also sounds intense and chad chew.
0:44:59 These are all great names, you know?
0:45:00 It’s hard to guess.
0:45:01 I like chisel though, chisel’s good.
0:45:02 Yeah, chisel’s my favorite so far.
0:45:04 All right, so we got chisel gum.
0:45:04 Yep.
0:45:06 And now you got to come up with
0:45:07 how we’re going to market this.
0:45:08 So you’re going to go to your creator army,
0:45:10 you tell them what you want to redo,
0:45:10 you just let them go.
0:45:11 No, let them go.
0:45:15 And this has been part of respecting the future,
0:45:18 but understanding that I’m not the person in that anymore.
0:45:19 Letting go.
0:45:20 Yeah, exactly.
0:45:21 So let’s pretend we’re those creators.
0:45:22 We’re not.
0:45:23 So we’re like, we’re going to be, you know,
0:45:26 white belts at this, whereas there’s black belts.
0:45:28 But like, I see videos trending on TikTok
0:45:29 all the time about transformation.
0:45:31 So it’s like weight loss, whatever.
0:45:32 And so you could almost make it where
0:45:34 you’re not talking about a gum, obviously.
0:45:37 It’s like, you know, somebody being like my, you know,
0:45:39 they use the trending music that people are using.
0:45:42 Take a fit just influencer and they would put them up there
0:45:43 and they would like highlight the different things
0:45:45 on the facial symmetry and this and that.
0:45:47 And then like, look at his jawline.
0:45:48 Right.
0:45:51 And why this, you’re saying why this person is attractive.
0:45:52 The human mind is attractive to symmetry,
0:45:54 the golden ratio, stuff like that.
0:45:58 You would use like, oh, I’m kind of teaching you a science
0:46:00 about why, or you could even do like,
0:46:03 why guys don’t think this guy is attractive, but girls do.
0:46:04 Yep.
0:46:05 And you’re like, oh, okay, what’s the difference there?
0:46:07 Or you could do a transformation and be like,
0:46:10 I did five things, I took creatine.
0:46:12 I did this.
0:46:14 The third thing is I started chewing this gum daily.
0:46:18 Honestly, I didn’t believe it, but look at this.
0:46:19 Boom, boom.
0:46:21 And then you’re like, it’s available on Amazon.
0:46:23 Back to my story about like, you know, my transformation.
0:46:24 It’d be a video like that.
0:46:25 Yep.
0:46:26 That was one of the first ones that blew up on Evil Goods
0:46:30 was literally that this girl had like hormonal acne.
0:46:33 And it was like, it was the three things that helped with that.
0:46:35 And she showed it before a picture and after
0:46:36 and that was part of it.
0:46:38 And it just went nuclear.
0:46:41 All right, so we got our hooks there.
0:46:42 We got our brand chiseled.
0:46:44 So what was the other one you said you’re like,
0:46:46 basically we can fund a startup right now.
0:46:48 We can find an operator.
0:46:49 It’s a request for operator.
0:46:50 Yes.
0:46:52 Luxury pet is screaming at me.
0:46:57 Like Louis Vuitton is doing full popups of $500 dog bowls.
0:46:59 And it just shows again, it’s like,
0:47:02 luxury is such an interesting world, right?
0:47:04 ‘Cause it’s just like signaling and status
0:47:06 and what are people willing to pay?
0:47:08 There’s no luxury pet brands yet.
0:47:10 Did you hit it again where my initial reaction is,
0:47:11 oh my God, that’s so stupid.
0:47:11 What a waste.
0:47:13 I can’t believe people are doing this.
0:47:16 But you’re saying people are doing this, period.
0:47:18 Louis Vuitton, that’s the important part.
0:47:19 Louis Vuitton validated it.
0:47:20 This is stupid.
0:47:21 It’s the second part of the sentence.
0:47:22 People are doing this.
0:47:23 That’s a fact, Jack.
0:47:25 You can’t deny that.
0:47:28 Well, I’ve just seen, so I had this idea
0:47:30 probably like 18 months ago when I was just hearing
0:47:32 what people spend on their pets.
0:47:36 Like it’s actually insane from like even the pet supplements.
0:47:38 It’s like they’re paying more for pet supplements
0:47:39 than human supplements.
0:47:40 And so I’m like, okay, there’s something here.
0:47:42 I wonder if you could ever do anything luxury.
0:47:45 And then Louis Vuitton rolls out literally like,
0:47:47 it’s like lovers, like pet lovers.
0:47:52 And they’re doing $500 dog bowls and $300 high-end leather
0:47:57 collars and I’m just like, oh, validated.
0:47:59 And how many do you have to sell in that area too
0:48:01 to have a successful business, you know?
0:48:02 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:48:06 Would you, so my initial hesitation would have been,
0:48:07 can you build luxury on TikTok?
0:48:10 Like, isn’t TikTok kind of like, you know,
0:48:12 it’s more like a Walmart than it is like a luxury,
0:48:13 but maybe I’m wrong.
0:48:14 Maybe it’s just, there’s a billion people on it.
0:48:17 And so you can’t generalize like that.
0:48:18 That, and that’s why I love that.
0:48:20 So I said, let’s not do a disservice to the app
0:48:22 and the platform they build.
0:48:24 That’s what I did on Amazon with Genius.
0:48:26 Genius is a very high-end supplement brand.
0:48:31 Like we were selling, you know, we had a $130 product
0:48:33 that was by all intents and purposes like luxury.
0:48:35 And like, oh, that would never work on Amazon,
0:48:36 it’s a discount site.
0:48:39 And TikTok has a lot of those components in it now too.
0:48:42 But again, you tie back to a billion people
0:48:44 and you tie back to, I mean, my cologne’s $90.
0:48:47 So that’s not cheap, right?
0:48:49 It’s not a $30 cologne.
0:48:50 $30 colognes outsell us,
0:48:53 but I only need to sell one of those for every three.
0:48:54 And it’s done well.
0:48:57 So I think it’s there.
0:48:59 And how would you, if you did this luxury thing,
0:49:02 like what would you do to make it, to build the brand?
0:49:04 Cause I think you study high fashion.
0:49:07 You study like kind of the cool stuff in culture.
0:49:09 What would you do if you were translating that
0:49:10 to the TikTok world?
0:49:13 What would you do for luxury pet brand?
0:49:14 Do you know René Girard?
0:49:15 Like Peter Thiel.
0:49:17 Yeah, yeah, like Mimetic Theory.
0:49:18 I love that.
0:49:19 And so I think-
0:49:21 Explain the simple explanation of that.
0:49:22 I mean, people don’t know what they want.
0:49:23 So they want what others want.
0:49:25 And so from our perspective as brand owners,
0:49:29 influencing influencers and finding, you know, those names,
0:49:33 I think the most straightforward way to run this one
0:49:38 is find one of these streamers or, you know,
0:49:41 if I could get a clip of Drake using my cologne
0:49:43 and then give it to the creator army,
0:49:44 we would do millions of dollars.
0:49:47 And I think you can do that in pet where I don’t know
0:49:49 if Kim Kardashian has a freaking poodle or whatever.
0:49:50 Sure she does.
0:49:53 But you don’t even need that big of a name.
0:49:55 Just someone in that space.
0:49:56 And then you feed it to the army.
0:49:59 And I think that’s the most straightforward thing.
0:50:01 And I think it would go overnight.
0:50:05 Yeah, I almost wonder if you could even just use the outrage.
0:50:06 So like-
0:50:07 Yeah, of the cost of it.
0:50:08 Of the cost of it.
0:50:08 I was thinking that too.
0:50:09 I can’t believe people are doing this.
0:50:11 This is the craziest thing I’ve seen.
0:50:12 Celebrities are doing this.
0:50:14 It makes me sick, whatever.
0:50:17 And some people in the, like, it’ll get to so many people.
0:50:20 And most of the comments will be negative about the idea,
0:50:21 but it’s just gonna get so much reach
0:50:23 that some people are gonna either just,
0:50:25 it’ll plant the seed that this exists.
0:50:26 That I’m not doing it.
0:50:27 That other people are doing it.
0:50:28 That, hey, maybe I would do that.
0:50:29 I do love my pet.
0:50:30 Yeah, or even like you could even play
0:50:32 into Louis Vuitton doing it.
0:50:34 Like with the, you know, there’s,
0:50:37 I think there’s a lot of different ways to approach it.
0:50:38 And I just like those areas
0:50:41 where there’s that much margin to play.
0:50:42 There’s just more.
0:50:44 And again, it ties back to like human nature.
0:50:47 We exist in a culture, in a world
0:50:49 where we’ve created so much abundance, like bottom line.
0:50:53 Like we could afford things like universal basic income
0:50:55 and we’re automating the hell out of everything
0:50:58 and anything and everything is, is freaking possible.
0:51:00 And so with that in mind, there’s really no shortage.
0:51:02 Like you see some of the services
0:51:03 that exist for billionaires.
0:51:07 Like it is just the most absurd hyper, but it exists.
0:51:09 And the people providing those do well.
0:51:10 Isn’t that like a Hermos-y thing?
0:51:11 He says, sell it.
0:51:13 I want to sell it to people with more money or whatever.
0:51:14 Yeah, yeah.
0:51:15 Something like that.
0:51:17 One of his genius insights.
0:51:19 Sell to the people with money.
0:51:22 But there is a, actually like business framework here,
0:51:25 which is if you take what the rich have,
0:51:26 but you find a way to democratize it,
0:51:27 you can build a huge business.
0:51:29 So Uber is a classic example of this.
0:51:32 Rich people had private drivers where, you know,
0:51:35 when they’re done with the meeting, they send a text, done.
0:51:37 Driver pulls up, they get in, they get out.
0:51:40 They don’t have to go worry about parking and gas.
0:51:41 There’s a guy who does that.
0:51:43 Uber democratized that private driver experience.
0:51:44 And it literally, that was their homepage
0:51:46 was a private driver for everyone.
0:51:49 And so like that became, that was the start of Uber.
0:51:52 Black cars, you know, even Airbnb’s.
0:51:53 What is an Airbnb?
0:51:54 It’s having a vacation home.
0:51:57 It’s being able to go and stay in a home in, you know,
0:51:59 Tahoe or in all these different places.
0:52:01 Airbnb became a thing that rich people have,
0:52:03 vacation homes in different cities,
0:52:06 but now everybody gets access to that in a different way.
0:52:08 Marquis jets was private, private flight.
0:52:10 So instead of buying a private jet, you know,
0:52:12 50 million, a hundred million dollars,
0:52:15 you would instead buy a fractional share
0:52:16 and get to ride certain hours.
0:52:18 And there was a huge market of people
0:52:19 that wanted to do that.
0:52:21 Even JSX now, probably to some extent.
0:52:22 JSX is exactly like that.
0:52:23 So, you know, that’s a bit,
0:52:25 if you can find a way to drop the cost
0:52:27 and that, you know, even do a lingo,
0:52:30 like we have rich people who will hire a Mandarin tutor
0:52:32 for their, for their kid.
0:52:34 But then if you have an app that can teach your kid,
0:52:36 you know, a foreign language in a way,
0:52:37 it’s doing the same thing.
0:52:41 And so I think that’s, that is just generally a business model.
0:52:43 What are the mistakes people make?
0:52:45 So like, if somebody was to go into this,
0:52:48 what are the common pitfalls someone could fall into
0:52:50 that you could just like save them?
0:52:52 – Super top of the funnel here,
0:52:54 how they treat those affiliates.
0:52:55 It’s very culture-based.
0:52:57 It’s, I’ve seen brands,
0:52:59 there’s so much money being made right now.
0:53:01 Brand owners need to be super generous
0:53:03 because, you know, a market’s a market.
0:53:05 And right now people are paying,
0:53:06 you talked about the goalie challenge.
0:53:08 – Yeah, explain this, ’cause that was in an old episode.
0:53:09 So explain what they were doing.
0:53:12 – This brand comes in and in an effort
0:53:13 to get as many creators as possible,
0:53:15 put together all these prizes.
0:53:16 With like the number one,
0:53:18 if you did a million dollars in sales for them in a month,
0:53:21 I believe they’d give you a condo and brickel
0:53:24 or the cash equivalent, which was like 600 grand
0:53:25 or something like that.
0:53:26 – Like Lamborghini was the next one.
0:53:29 And it was like this like rewards tier list.
0:53:29 – Rolexes left and right.
0:53:31 – And you’re selling goalie gummies.
0:53:33 Like they just make these like apple cider vinegar gummies
0:53:35 basically, which also was a health,
0:53:37 kind of like a holistic health wellness things.
0:53:40 Apple cider vinegar has benefits in your gut and whatever.
0:53:41 – Maybe.
0:53:42 – Maybe, yeah.
0:53:43 Well, that at the time was the narrator.
0:53:44 – The creator said so.
0:53:45 (laughing)
0:53:48 – Yeah, this 22 year old who’s trying to win a condo
0:53:51 and told me that that’s how the world works.
0:53:52 – Oh man.
0:53:53 – Do you believe any advertising at this point?
0:53:54 – No.
0:53:55 (laughing)
0:53:57 – Once you’ve seen how the sausage is made.
0:53:58 – There’s a reason I hate supplements too.
0:54:01 I’m not launching new supplements.
0:54:02 I mean, there’s some good stuff out there,
0:54:05 but overall, when you really peel back all the,
0:54:08 like a really, like a decent amount of health advice
0:54:11 online nowadays is coming from 18 year olds
0:54:13 making conspiracy videos.
0:54:15 (laughing)
0:54:16 – That’s pretty wild.
0:54:17 – That’s just reality.
0:54:19 So a brand like goalie comes in though
0:54:23 and they set the stage for how creators are being treated.
0:54:24 And obviously they have a lot of money
0:54:26 and they’re trying to mess the game up for everyone else,
0:54:27 right?
0:54:28 They can afford that, maybe lose some money.
0:54:30 But then if you’re this startup brand owner
0:54:31 and you’re coming in and you’re,
0:54:33 no man, I don’t want to give you 25% commission.
0:54:35 I’m going to give you 20.
0:54:37 And that can be super off-putting.
0:54:40 And so in this current era, I would say,
0:54:43 and even the culture from like the group we own part of,
0:54:44 it’s like abundance.
0:54:47 It’s like, put it out there, it’s going to come back.
0:54:50 And I think as an owner of a brand,
0:54:53 like bringing that, not, you know,
0:54:55 accepting that we are a different generation
0:54:58 and not infringing on them.
0:55:00 I think that’s the best thing you can do.
0:55:00 – Right.
0:55:04 – All right, Sean here with a quick
0:55:08 public service announcement for any tech founders out there.
0:55:10 You know, listen, getting customers
0:55:11 is your number one priority.
0:55:12 And to land bigger customers,
0:55:14 one of the things that people don’t talk about
0:55:16 is that big customers need you
0:55:18 to pass security compliance checks.
0:55:20 That’s how you can bring in some of the big contracts,
0:55:22 but they take time and energy.
0:55:24 And one of the things I’ve seen over and over again
0:55:26 is a startup tries to do this all on their own.
0:55:28 They meet a customer, the customer asks them
0:55:31 about their SOC2, and then they start shifting
0:55:34 their whole dev team over to working on this.
0:55:35 And their features grind to a halt.
0:55:37 Well, that’s where Vanta comes in.
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0:56:09 Again, that’s Vanta, V-A-N-T-A.com/million.
0:56:10 All right, back to this episode.
0:56:13 (upbeat music)
0:56:16 – All right, give me your, just summarize.
0:56:18 If I tuned out and I just need to hear one thing
0:56:20 to summarize what your thoughts are
0:56:22 on this kind of TikTok opportunity.
0:56:23 Give me the summary, then I wanna ask you
0:56:23 about some other stuff.
0:56:25 – Millions are being printed on TikTok shop.
0:56:27 Like, what are you doing?
0:56:29 (laughs)
0:56:32 – I was starting brands and trying to get as many,
0:56:34 I’m trying to perfect short form content
0:56:36 and short form content distribution.
0:56:38 Like, period, from a brand-
0:56:40 – Why do you believe so much in short form content?
0:56:41 ‘Cause it’s-
0:56:42 – It’s changing the world in front of our eyes.
0:56:47 Like, it’s from personalities we know to songs we know.
0:56:49 Like, it’s so, like music even.
0:56:53 We’re hearing songs that are blowing up from this world.
0:56:55 And that’s just, it’s the future.
0:56:58 – Do we have this friend, Connor Price.
0:57:00 Have you seen what he does on TikTok?
0:57:00 – Who’s he again?
0:57:02 – He’s a rapper, white guy rapper.
0:57:03 – Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
0:57:06 – He used to work in Ramon’s warehouse,
0:57:07 like moving boxes.
0:57:08 – No shit.
0:57:11 – And he was like, and then during COVID,
0:57:12 warehouse shuts down.
0:57:13 He goes home.
0:57:15 His wife’s like, you should put your music out there.
0:57:16 Let’s do something.
0:57:17 We were just sitting at home.
0:57:19 And he was really shy about it.
0:57:21 And she’s like, you gotta start making content.
0:57:23 He puts out a YouTube video and it gets like, you know,
0:57:26 11 views like most YouTube videos do.
0:57:27 And then she had this genius.
0:57:29 She’s like, she’s the real mastermind behind it
0:57:32 because she was like, let’s make a TikTok.
0:57:34 And he was like, he had the same reaction, TikTok.
0:57:35 That’s stupid.
0:57:36 That’s not serious.
0:57:37 Like I’m an artist.
0:57:38 I’m a musician.
0:57:40 I’m not just one of these kids dancing.
0:57:42 And what he did was he started making these videos.
0:57:44 We’ll put one on the screen here so people can watch it,
0:57:47 but he created a little skit.
0:57:49 So his, instead of just saying what I would have done,
0:57:51 like a boomer is I would have been like,
0:57:53 hey guys, I got a new song here.
0:57:55 Or I would just make a video of like playing the song.
0:57:58 And guess what happens when you’re scrolling through TikTok,
0:58:00 you’re swiping every three seconds
0:58:02 and a song starts to play that you’ve never heard before,
0:58:03 you just keep swiping.
0:58:05 Like he doesn’t grab you right away.
0:58:07 So instead he started doing these funny skits
0:58:09 where he would, he was three characters,
0:58:11 almost like an Eddie Murphy movie.
0:58:11 He would open the door,
0:58:14 like every skit starts opening the door
0:58:16 and there’s, that’s the rapper coming into the studio.
0:58:18 He’s got the guy with the headphones on.
0:58:20 That’s him as the producer.
0:58:21 And then you have the weird brother.
0:58:23 And the weird brother is kind of the key
0:58:23 to make the whole thing work.
0:58:26 And so he would walk in and he’d be like,
0:58:27 yo, you ready for a session?
0:58:28 Whoa, what’s he doing?
0:58:29 And just immediately you want to know,
0:58:30 well, what’s he doing?
0:58:31 Why is he surprised?
0:58:33 And the weird brother is doing it like,
0:58:34 he has one where he’s taking a carrot
0:58:36 and he’s drilling holes in a carrot.
0:58:39 And you’re like, and it’s like the sound of a drill.
0:58:41 It’s the carrot, it’s visually weird.
0:58:43 And they’re both like,
0:58:44 he’s being weird again.
0:58:46 And then he’s like, let’s get down to work.
0:58:47 You want to play that song?
0:58:50 And then you hear this flute playing
0:58:51 and they both look at the brother
0:58:52 and he’s playing the carrot flute,
0:58:54 but it’s the beat of the song.
0:58:56 Like it just, he overlaid it that way
0:58:58 as if that was the beat.
0:59:00 And the producer’s like, go with it, go with it.
0:59:01 And then he starts rapping.
0:59:02 And then the song hits
0:59:05 and the song is almost the punchline of the skit.
0:59:09 And dude, he became like independently no record label.
0:59:11 Billions streams on Spotify.
0:59:14 Doing no marketing on Spotify, only on TikTok.
0:59:15 – Off that.
0:59:17 If I want to summarize all of this,
0:59:19 it almost seems dark for a second,
0:59:22 but one of my favorite quotes is,
0:59:25 if you tell a lie enough times, it becomes truth.
0:59:28 And that was obviously war propaganda back in the day,
0:59:29 but you take that idea
0:59:33 and then you just think purely in terms of views
0:59:36 and more specifically cost of acquisition of views.
0:59:37 So you have like a,
0:59:41 if you’re a tobacco company,
0:59:43 whenever and you’re getting doctors to promote it,
0:59:45 like you have the money to get the views
0:59:47 and control the narrative, right?
0:59:49 And the more you can do that,
0:59:52 it’s usually a pay to play game, except in these windows.
0:59:55 When all of a sudden an Andrew Tate burst on the scene,
0:59:57 does it matter what he’s saying is real or not?
0:59:59 He’s getting seen a billion times a month.
1:00:01 And so all of a sudden that become,
1:00:02 there’s some narrative there being formed
1:00:06 that he has serious impact on.
1:00:07 And these gold rush windows
1:00:10 are when there’s the ability for normal people
1:00:13 without, you know, multinational level marketing budgets
1:00:16 to form a mainstream narrative
1:00:19 or get a billion views on a Spotify
1:00:22 and, you know, become something because of these windows.
1:00:23 We couldn’t have done that.
1:00:25 He couldn’t have done that without TikTok.
1:00:26 Like he just, the old Instagram,
1:00:27 you wouldn’t have gone viral on,
1:00:29 there’s no means of connecting.
1:00:30 – Yes, it’s amazing circle.
1:00:33 Like 12 years ago, Instagram comes out
1:00:35 and imagine if you were like,
1:00:37 what are you doing all day today?
1:00:38 It’s like, oh, I’m filming myself.
1:00:42 I’m making, I’m cooking at home and taking pictures of it
1:00:43 or making videos of it.
1:00:43 – Yeah, you’re a weirdo.
1:00:44 – Dude, get a job.
1:00:45 What are you doing?
1:00:48 – So you go from weirdo wasting his time,
1:00:52 but you were early on the platform to now,
1:00:55 let’s say you wanted to go become a food creator.
1:00:57 Like do this too saturated, man.
1:00:58 It’s impossible to win.
1:00:59 It’s like, but now everybody’s accepted
1:01:02 that influencers are a thing and that they have,
1:01:03 they can, they can move product.
1:01:04 They can, they can become rich.
1:01:06 They can become famous doing this.
1:01:08 And what you’re saying is kind of like on TikTok,
1:01:10 it’s the same model,
1:01:13 but instead of you becoming a famous creator,
1:01:16 it’s your product can become famous
1:01:17 by putting it into the hands of talented people
1:01:19 who are going to make all kinds of videos,
1:01:21 taking literally like a thousand shots on goal a month.
1:01:24 And if they get the right story or the right premise
1:01:25 and they keep innovating on that,
1:01:28 your product gets famous that way.
1:01:29 Whereas, dude, you weren’t going to be able to walk
1:01:31 into Walmart or Target and get on the shelf.
1:01:33 You’re not even going to be able to really go
1:01:35 onto Amazon and just rank number one in these categories
1:01:36 because it’s just so competitive.
1:01:37 – Not anymore, right?
1:01:39 – You’re not going to be influential,
1:01:40 influential creator on Instagram.
1:01:41 It’s harder.
1:01:43 This is where the green field is.
1:01:46 My dad called me an idiot when I was pouring into Amazon.
1:01:49 Like actually, like, you know, like question my sanity
1:01:50 as like as a human, right?
1:01:52 Like it was like a crazy experience now.
1:01:54 And hindsight, it’s like, God, thank God.
1:01:55 – 30 million dollars later.
1:01:56 – Yeah, thank God.
1:01:57 It lists my parents, you know?
1:02:00 And it’s just, it’s just, that’s why I admire guys.
1:02:01 Elon’s a good example.
1:02:03 I think when you look through things,
1:02:05 look at things from like a very ground up perspective
1:02:07 and don’t take the common,
1:02:09 there’s so much arbitrage everywhere
1:02:12 because humans are narrative machines and we live off that.
1:02:15 So it’s like common knowledge becomes whatever.
1:02:19 And yet technology is reshaping everything.
1:02:20 That’s why I just want to keep leaning into that
1:02:23 and being, I think more people that aren’t afraid
1:02:27 to just send it with like that in mind in some capacity,
1:02:29 the more it gives others the confidence
1:02:32 to stand up on their own right and do their own thing,
1:02:33 you know?
1:02:33 – Right.
1:02:34 I like that you said send it.
1:02:36 You have this phrase I like.
1:02:38 So we talked about looks maxing.
1:02:40 You have said this phrase before, life maxing.
1:02:41 – Yeah.
1:02:43 – And I kind of like the philosophy
1:02:44 but I don’t really fully know it
1:02:46 ’cause we’ve only hung out in group settings
1:02:47 a bunch of times.
1:02:49 What is the life maxing philosophy?
1:02:52 Is this something that you think more people should be
1:02:54 kind of taken as a mantra?
1:02:55 – Yeah, I think so.
1:02:59 I think there’s a lot of existential dread
1:03:00 in today’s world.
1:03:03 And there’s also a lot of us trying to ascribe.
1:03:05 – Even among successful people, you mean?
1:03:07 – Especially among successful people.
1:03:09 Especially among successful people.
1:03:13 And it manifests in all sorts of weird ways, you know?
1:03:14 Look at Ryan Johnson.
1:03:16 I’m kidding.
1:03:17 That’s crazy take.
1:03:19 – Love your Brian.
1:03:19 – No, he’s awesome.
1:03:20 He really is.
1:03:21 He really is.
1:03:22 And I think he’s a good example of someone
1:03:25 that’s all in on life maxing.
1:03:27 ‘Cause everyone, my thing is we have this-
1:03:28 – He took it literally.
1:03:29 – He did.
1:03:30 – Yeah.
1:03:31 – Lifespan maxing.
1:03:31 – Lifespan maxing.
1:03:36 But we have this blank, you know, scorecard, right?
1:03:42 And we have this finite time here on the earth.
1:03:44 And I think the more you can fill it up
1:03:46 with things that you thoroughly enjoy
1:03:49 and then kind of like maxing out those stats, so to speak,
1:03:50 we’re capable of so much.
1:03:53 And instead we fall into this like,
1:03:54 oh, I’m only gonna chase money or oh,
1:03:58 I’m only gonna do this where living a well-rounded life-
1:04:01 – What’s the difference between just being well-rounded
1:04:02 and life maxing?
1:04:04 Are they the same thing with just a cool name?
1:04:05 Or is there a difference?
1:04:07 – I don’t see many people,
1:04:09 it ties back to that full sending it thing.
1:04:11 I don’t see many people that are really like,
1:04:14 yo, I’m living for this.
1:04:16 Like what was your shower thoughts this morning?
1:04:21 – My shower thought was I realized that the optimal way
1:04:25 in terms of how the optimal mindset for me is
1:04:29 to be ignorant of the past, realistic about the present
1:04:30 and delusional about the future.
1:04:31 – Yeah.
1:04:34 – Too many people are living in their past
1:04:36 or they vacation there all the time.
1:04:37 They just keep going to visit
1:04:40 and they tell themselves it’s for all kinds of reasons.
1:04:42 Maybe it’s therapies, tell them to go think about their
1:04:43 childhood, maybe it’s they’re saying,
1:04:44 I’m gonna go learn lessons.
1:04:46 Reality is the more you live in your past,
1:04:47 the less happy you are.
1:04:48 – Yeah.
1:04:52 – You wanna be delusional about the future, why not?
1:04:54 Why be realistic about the future?
1:04:56 ‘Cause you can be only when you’re a little bit delusional
1:04:59 about the future, do you actually like
1:05:00 kind of blow your own mind?
1:05:01 – Yeah.
1:05:03 – You get to do more than what you thought was reasonable.
1:05:05 But then you gotta be realistic about the present.
1:05:06 If you’re just delusional about the present,
1:05:08 you’re like, no, I am the best dad, but you’re not.
1:05:08 – Yeah, I’m not.
1:05:09 – Then you go nowhere, right?
1:05:12 Oh, I’m already uber-duber successful.
1:05:13 – Yeah.
1:05:14 – Bro, your bank accounts, you know, three digits right now.
1:05:16 It’s like, you gotta be realistic,
1:05:18 but just say like, all right, that’s where I am.
1:05:20 That’s not where I’m always gonna be.
1:05:21 Forget the past.
1:05:23 It don’t matter if I failed 10 times.
1:05:25 Like the most successful people when you talk to them,
1:05:26 they’re like, yeah, 10 years, you grind it.
1:05:28 If you ask them, you’re like, what was that like?
1:05:29 What were you doing?
1:05:31 It’s almost hard for them to even remember.
1:05:32 – Yeah.
1:05:33 – And it’s not because it was so long ago,
1:05:36 it was ’cause there’s actually like a useful part
1:05:37 of your brain that just blocks it out.
1:05:39 It’s like, it’s like my wife,
1:05:42 she did like natural delivery of birth like three times.
1:05:44 And if I ask her about it, it’s like,
1:05:46 her body has like a mechanism that’s like,
1:05:48 you never forgot that though, did you?
1:05:49 – I never forgot.
1:05:50 I’m traumatized.
1:05:52 I’m like, how could you do this to me?
1:05:54 She’s like, what are you talking about?
1:05:54 I’m with you.
1:05:55 – I’m fainting, right?
1:05:58 And then she’s like, forgot about it.
1:05:59 She’s like, only remembers the good.
1:06:00 It’s like, wow.
1:06:02 Your brain gave you a survival mechanism
1:06:03 that was actually really good for you,
1:06:05 that you don’t remember how bad it was,
1:06:06 how hard it was.
1:06:08 And I think ignorant of the past,
1:06:10 realistic about the present, delusional about the future.
1:06:12 I think that’s a good motto to live by.
1:06:14 – So I take that, there’s two things.
1:06:16 I’m obsessed with this idea of character design
1:06:18 and that’s what I’m living real time.
1:06:19 I think we have the ability,
1:06:22 when you zoom out long enough to create literally
1:06:24 whatever type of thing you want to be.
1:06:26 Like you can truly design that.
1:06:27 And so you have that,
1:06:29 and then you have another idea I’m obsessed with,
1:06:33 which is Bezos’ 80 year regret minimization framework,
1:06:35 where he wants to, that view of his death bed,
1:06:37 he wants as few regrets as possible.
1:06:40 And so when you work through those two avenues,
1:06:42 you can quite literally do anything.
1:06:43 – So explain the character design.
1:06:45 ‘Cause I’ve heard the regret minimization,
1:06:47 which is basically like, if I’m dying,
1:06:48 I want to have the least regrets possible.
1:06:51 So therefore today, which,
1:06:53 if I have a fork in the road,
1:06:56 do the one that will lead to the least regrets
1:06:57 when I’m 80, when I’m 90, when I’m 100.
1:06:59 – And that ties back to your piece.
1:07:01 Be relatively delusional about the future
1:07:03 while being very aware of where you’re at today,
1:07:06 while pretty much disregarding everything.
1:07:08 And so like when I look at like this,
1:07:11 you know, like I, this is music I’ve been working on, right?
1:07:15 And I remember going to a show in Puerto Rico,
1:07:17 John Summit, and I was like, you know,
1:07:19 in the booth right next to the DJ thing,
1:07:21 and just watching him command that crowd
1:07:23 and the energy and like the impact.
1:07:26 And I was like, you know, if I’m 80 years old
1:07:30 and I didn’t at least try to send it in this space,
1:07:31 I’ll regret it.
1:07:33 And then I start thinking through the character lens
1:07:35 of what does an artist look like and what is this?
1:07:36 Like things I have in me.
1:07:39 So I’m not like completely disconnected from reality,
1:07:42 but now taking all of the, hey, this is a business.
1:07:43 Hey, now the product’s music.
1:07:44 Hey, this is streaming.
1:07:46 Hey, you know, marketing.
1:07:48 And that’s where I’m at with it.
1:07:50 – One of the things that you’re reminding me of
1:07:52 when you’re talking about, let’s say the music production
1:07:54 or getting people to remember is
1:07:57 you were talking about whether it’s marketing or music
1:07:59 or if you have something good to say,
1:08:01 you almost owe it to yourself.
1:08:03 It’s like, do you believe in the thing you made?
1:08:05 The thing you have to say?
1:08:08 Because people are very bashful about marketing.
1:08:10 They’re bashful about putting it out there.
1:08:11 I know this, I would write things.
1:08:13 I wouldn’t even send it to my own friends and family.
1:08:15 I wouldn’t post on social media.
1:08:17 I wouldn’t promote my product.
1:08:19 I just kind of wanted it to be organic.
1:08:21 And when I look back at that, I’m like,
1:08:23 damn, I did myself a disservice.
1:08:25 Like, did I think the thing I did was good or not?
1:08:28 If I think it was good, then I owe it to that,
1:08:28 to do marketing.
1:08:29 – To send it.
1:08:30 – To fully send it.
1:08:31 – To send it.
1:08:35 – And you know, when you talk about storytelling, music,
1:08:36 you got to study the art
1:08:38 of how do you get your stuff out there?
1:08:40 – It’s a phenomenal skill.
1:08:43 It’s like a crazy, crazy, like that’s the vehicle.
1:08:44 You put the package in the trunk,
1:08:45 but you need the vehicle
1:08:47 that’s gonna actually get it out there to the masses.
1:08:49 It’s crazy, dude, we’re gonna watch this video.
1:08:52 This YouTube video right now, you just said it yourself.
1:08:54 What you said in this video
1:08:55 will make people millions of dollars.
1:08:58 If they, all they did was just try to act on it.
1:09:00 Give it two years, try to act on it.
1:09:01 You will become a millionaire
1:09:03 if you just follow what you just said.
1:09:05 And if I go look at the YouTube video stats,
1:09:07 the retention chart is gonna look like
1:09:08 it’s just a downhill slope.
1:09:11 Most people are gonna click off within 30 seconds.
1:09:12 And then by the end of this, there’s only gonna be,
1:09:16 you know, 25% of people are still watching this at the end.
1:09:19 I mean, 75% of people clicked on this
1:09:20 ’cause they wanted something out of their life
1:09:22 and then they’re not gonna even stick with it enough
1:09:23 to watch the video.
1:09:25 But that’s just the laws of nature.
1:09:27 – And don’t do that guy.
1:09:29 – But with that in mind, I think this last chunk
1:09:31 of the video where we’re talking about these stories
1:09:34 and the ability, like the model is becoming less important
1:09:36 the more I understand people.
1:09:40 And tapping into whatever that innate thing in all of us is,
1:09:41 is way more important.
1:09:42 And I wanna bring that out of more people
1:09:44 ’cause I’ve been through a lot of stuff
1:09:46 in a short period of time.
1:09:48 And I think the more I can bring that forward,
1:09:50 the more general impact there’ll be.
1:09:54 There’s one of my other favorite internet clips,
1:09:56 you know, for the Elon Musk’s and like what,
1:09:57 Brett Hancock, do you have him on?
1:09:59 – Adcock cab.
1:10:00 – Adcock, sorry.
1:10:03 There’s those minds that are just like obviously incredible
1:10:04 in their own space.
1:10:05 But then there’s that Elon interview
1:10:09 and it’s like, Elon, you inspire everyone in this room.
1:10:11 Who inspires you?
1:10:13 It’s like Kanye West, of course.
1:10:13 – You know, it’s just like–
1:10:14 – Is that what he said?
1:10:16 – Yeah, it’s hilarious.
1:10:19 And it’s, that’s the opposite side of that.
1:10:22 Like yeah, okay, Kanye’s nuts in every way,
1:10:26 but just that ability and desire to create
1:10:30 and stand up for new things and like have that confidence
1:10:32 in yourself, regardless of what people say,
1:10:36 is nothing short of not only incredible,
1:10:38 but necessary for people.
1:10:39 – I love the send it attitude.
1:10:41 I mean, I wanna make merch with the send it thing.
1:10:44 And also, I think you made me realize
1:10:46 there’s probably the way I used to think about it,
1:10:48 which is well-rounded.
1:10:50 You know, Mike Posner came on the podcast.
1:10:52 Famous musician.
1:10:54 He wrote, like, took a pill in the bees and all those songs.
1:10:56 First song went viral.
1:10:58 And he tells the stories like first song went viral.
1:11:00 I’m like, of course, that’s what I do.
1:11:01 You know, like, I guess that’s what I do.
1:11:04 I put out a song, I go triple platinum.
1:11:05 And then the second song went double platinum,
1:11:07 then single platinum, then no platinum.
1:11:08 And then he was on the shelf.
1:11:10 The record label was like, it’s not even worth
1:11:11 paying to produce your music
1:11:13 because we don’t think it’ll sell.
1:11:14 But also you can’t go do something else,
1:11:15 you’re under contract.
1:11:17 So he was like, dude, I’m shit out of luck.
1:11:18 He, like, went back to school
1:11:19 and started learning how to sing better.
1:11:21 He’s like, dude, I always work on my craft.
1:11:23 And then he came back and now he’s had,
1:11:24 he’s like, had this resurgence.
1:11:25 But he talked about, he goes,
1:11:28 I had to look at my life and realize,
1:11:33 yes, I was uber-duber successful in my career,
1:11:36 but I was a desert wasteland in relationships and health
1:11:37 and whatever.
1:11:39 He’s like, that I realized was just not success for me.
1:11:41 And so I was inspired by that.
1:11:43 And I started thinking, yeah, you do want it to be well-rounded.
1:11:45 You want to be the dad, the husband.
1:11:46 You also want to be having fun.
1:11:48 You also want to be, you know,
1:11:49 being creative and making cool shit,
1:11:51 being successful, making money.
1:11:54 But the well-rounded thing is more like a check the box.
1:11:56 It’s like, am I doing, you know,
1:11:58 a sufficient amount of X, Y and Z?
1:12:00 Whereas life maxing is saying,
1:12:03 what would it look like if I really sent it
1:12:04 in terms of my fitness?
1:12:06 Like, yeah, I’m going to work out anyways,
1:12:07 but like, I know you do Muay Thai, right?
1:12:10 You’re like, I’m going to work out for an hour anyways.
1:12:12 What could I do that makes me like,
1:12:14 what would be full send on this workout?
1:12:15 – Dramatically better.
1:12:16 And that’s the great example.
1:12:18 It’s like two years ago, I couldn’t fight it all.
1:12:20 And I feel pretty comfortable like in there
1:12:23 with a lot of people that aren’t named John Jones, you know?
1:12:26 But just taking things seriously
1:12:28 and really put that notch on your bell.
1:12:30 It’s like now music or even like learning Spanish
1:12:32 is one that I’m like going to do.
1:12:33 And I’m going to take it very seriously.
1:12:35 And it’s not going to be I’m half learning Spanish.
1:12:37 I’m going to be fluent in, you know.
1:12:38 – Do you do these one at a time?
1:12:41 Or how do you, how do you not stretch yourself?
1:12:42 – That’s what I’m discovering.
1:12:43 It’s like, like how much,
1:12:46 and I like that healthy balance of pushing yourself
1:12:47 to, we were capable of so much more
1:12:49 than we give ourselves credit for.
1:12:53 I’ve already seen that, but there is some line.
1:12:54 And so I don’t have a good answer for that.
1:12:57 But that’s, I’m trying to also be an open book
1:12:58 and show it all real time.
1:13:00 Like I want you to look back at my fighting clips
1:13:01 from two years ago.
1:13:03 And I want, you know, to meet like all of it.
1:13:07 I want to be an open story that is ongoing
1:13:08 and constantly iterating.
1:13:11 – So this year I, Jesse, it’s okay.
1:13:13 I’m on the podcast and gave this idea of a misogi.
1:13:14 He’s like, oh, this is Japanese tradition
1:13:17 in the way, kind of the American translation
1:13:19 or the way he translated the Japanese idea
1:13:23 is one grand challenge a year,
1:13:27 but specifically like do something so grand
1:13:28 that it changes you.
1:13:28 – Yeah.
1:13:29 – That it changes you.
1:13:31 So then it’s like, so he, for him, it was like,
1:13:33 he ran this 100 mile race.
1:13:34 Like, and he, every year he picks a different one.
1:13:37 One year was right a book, another year.
1:13:39 So he’s done this for like 15 years or so.
1:13:40 And I was like, damn,
1:13:41 I never really do something like that, right?
1:13:43 Like I have like New Year’s resolutions,
1:13:44 things I want to improve about myself,
1:13:46 but I never really like put out the misogi,
1:13:48 the grand challenge for the year.
1:13:50 And so I made one.
1:13:51 I was like, all right, I want to,
1:13:53 and I like that it’s one.
1:13:55 Cause I was like, oh, I want to do this and this and this.
1:13:55 All that was going to do
1:13:57 was guarantee none of them happened.
1:13:59 So all right, what’s the one for this year?
1:14:01 And I was like, I would love to be,
1:14:03 I was like, I want to have more fun in my life.
1:14:04 I have fun playing basketball.
1:14:05 I have fun doing the podcast.
1:14:07 I have fun, you know, in business, my kids.
1:14:09 Where can I, where can I dial up fun?
1:14:12 And I was like, I want to be able to jam out with music.
1:14:17 Cause music is like its own little like magic potion.
1:14:18 Music makes you feel good in 13 seconds.
1:14:21 I can play a song and change your mood in 13 seconds.
1:14:23 There’s not much I can say to you that’s going to do that.
1:14:25 Like to change your mood for the better.
1:14:26 And so I was like, all right,
1:14:29 I want to be able to jam out on a piano.
1:14:30 But then I was like, all right,
1:14:32 what’s the life maxing version of this?
1:14:33 So I was like, all right,
1:14:34 not only am I going to learn to,
1:14:35 not only just going to learn piano,
1:14:36 like I’m going to get good.
1:14:37 I’m going to be able to jam out
1:14:39 to any song I want on the piano.
1:14:41 That’s going to be my mission.
1:14:44 Two, what if I could also teach my daughter, she’s five.
1:14:45 I was like, what if she could do it with me?
1:14:47 Now I’m getting dad points
1:14:48 while I’m getting piano points at the same time.
1:14:50 Finding those synergies to weave it all together.
1:14:51 Oh, it’s integration.
1:14:54 I’m not choosing family or my piano hobby.
1:14:54 It’s both.
1:14:56 So she comes with me to every single lesson.
1:14:58 She begs me to do piano now every night.
1:14:59 I’m like, okay, that’s cool.
1:15:00 Then I was like, all right,
1:15:01 what would be like the max out,
1:15:03 the full send version of this?
1:15:04 If I really was to send it, what would I do?
1:15:06 And at first I was like, what would I make a song?
1:15:08 Would I perform at a theater?
1:15:10 And I felt like that’s kind of playing
1:15:11 somebody else’s game.
1:15:16 So I think a key part is like, pick what’s real for you.
1:15:18 Don’t just like take somebody else’s scorecard
1:15:20 and be like, that’s now how I’m going to judge myself.
1:15:22 So I had this idea from my cousin
1:15:27 of go play a recital at an old folks home.
1:15:28 Okay.
1:15:28 I was like, oh, that’d be just like more fun.
1:15:30 Like that would just be more fun for me,
1:15:32 more meaningful for three versus like posted online
1:15:33 and get a bunch of views
1:15:35 or perform in front of other people.
1:15:36 It’s like, dude, go to this place
1:15:39 where I’ve been to a bunch of like senior centers.
1:15:40 Not a lot is happening there.
1:15:42 Like I could go be their Kanye
1:15:43 ’cause there’s nobody else there.
1:15:44 And for me, that would be meaningful.
1:15:47 Like I made other people’s day brighter if I did that.
1:15:50 So I was like, to me, that was a real learning lesson
1:15:53 of like how to choose these side quests,
1:15:55 how to choose these misogies,
1:15:57 these one year challenges in a way that
1:15:59 I’m going to use now going forward.
1:16:00 Absolutely.
1:16:01 I think you hit the nail on the head
1:16:03 with it being hyper individualized.
1:16:06 Like my life maxing scorecard is not yours
1:16:07 and it shouldn’t be.
1:16:09 We’re all drawn to different things
1:16:12 and I think keeping it individual is important
1:16:14 while keeping that, like my main framework
1:16:17 is like don’t let anyone else dictate it for you
1:16:19 or don’t let anyone tell you what you can’t be
1:16:20 or can’t do.
1:16:20 Right.
1:16:21 What’s yours?
1:16:24 Like what is that scorecard look like for you?
1:16:26 So I’m like, more time starting to take
1:16:27 like a back burner thing.
1:16:31 I’m putting, you know, being a dad at the top of that,
1:16:33 which has been, so that’s like reshuffling everything.
1:16:36 ‘Cause I’m learning what it means to be present
1:16:38 as an individual and that means like, you know,
1:16:40 way less phone, which inherently means,
1:16:43 like it starts to crumble some of the other pieces,
1:16:45 but the beautiful part of this is when you put your priorities
1:16:47 in place, things start to handle themselves.
1:16:49 Like then all of a sudden you start thinking smarter
1:16:52 just naturally, like, okay, like that still has to get done.
1:16:55 So I have to trust, you know, my team for that
1:16:56 and this and that.
1:16:57 So that’s at the top of it.
1:17:01 The music is the second, second piece
1:17:04 and then still the other, you know,
1:17:07 it’s like I’m taking content as one of these things now,
1:17:09 like just from a storytelling.
1:17:10 Some of the stuff I’m gonna do on YouTube,
1:17:13 I think is gonna, is gonna.
1:17:14 Well, let’s talk about content real quick.
1:17:18 ‘Cause when I first met you through a mutual friend,
1:17:21 you showed up and you had this like, again,
1:17:24 you always have a different like crazy outfit on.
1:17:26 And somebody was like, oh, you gotta check out his Instagram.
1:17:28 And I go and I was like, bro, like,
1:17:29 I was having a great conversation with you.
1:17:30 And then I went to your Instagram.
1:17:32 Like that’s not a nice guy.
1:17:34 I was like, I would never talk to this guy.
1:17:37 Your brand name was like the genius CEO.
1:17:42 Every video was like Dan Bilzerian meets like Instagram,
1:17:44 meets like a drop shipper.
1:17:47 It was like, oh man, this guy’s selling courses
1:17:49 and every video was like over the top.
1:17:50 He’s talking about how you can make millions instantly.
1:17:52 It was a get rich, quick vibes.
1:17:53 But I met you.
1:17:55 I was like, dude, you, you, yeah.
1:17:57 And you were like, I’m like, you’re like,
1:17:59 is an experiment like I’m being intention,
1:18:02 I’m intentionally turning that knob up that way.
1:18:03 Cause I want to see what happens.
1:18:04 And you were into that at the time.
1:18:06 I think now you’re, you’re making a shift.
1:18:08 But like, could you just describe what you, what you did there?
1:18:10 Cause I almost was, once I met you and I was like,
1:18:13 Oh, that’s, he created a character.
1:18:16 So my, that’s actually respectable in a way.
1:18:17 I’m huge.
1:18:19 Like one of my core things is obviously intense ownership
1:18:21 of like oneself.
1:18:24 And one of my problems after I sold that business with Genius,
1:18:26 I had my first daughter and I was really frustrated
1:18:27 with the world.
1:18:27 I just was.
1:18:31 And it started to become like a cope and like a, you know,
1:18:34 other people have weird ways of ducking ownership
1:18:37 and responsibility and like disconnecting
1:18:38 from their own unhappiness.
1:18:39 And I remember just thinking like,
1:18:41 okay, I don’t like where the world’s headed.
1:18:44 And so I could sit there and keep crying about it.
1:18:47 Or I could try to have some influence or some dent on it.
1:18:51 And that’s what kind of drew me to intentional social media.
1:18:53 I had tried to do like this cool health content.
1:18:57 Like I was doing not, not full Brian Johnson,
1:19:00 but like Dave Asprey level stuff like seven, eight years ago,
1:19:02 like hyperbaric chamber, red light,
1:19:06 and like literally nobody cared, nobody cared.
1:19:07 And now in hindsight,
1:19:08 – The nice guy was finishing last.
1:19:09 – Yeah.
1:19:10 And then hindsight was that I didn’t know how to make
1:19:13 the content yet, right?
1:19:15 But I saw this like clear formula of,
1:19:18 Oh my God, if I post a car, like I am actually rich.
1:19:19 I still have business.
1:19:21 And if you post a car or watch or whatever,
1:19:23 people respond.
1:19:24 And so as that started to work,
1:19:28 I started doubling down on those, those things.
1:19:31 And it wasn’t until like,
1:19:32 like you kind of got to play the game
1:19:34 to change the game a little bit.
1:19:35 It was, was my opinion.
1:19:38 And that’s when you met me kind of in that wave
1:19:43 where like pseudo relevant,
1:19:45 even if maybe not in the right, right lens.
1:19:48 But until you have learned those skills
1:19:50 and learned to kind of, you know, develop a platform,
1:19:51 then, then literally nobody cares.
1:19:53 Like nice guy does finish last.
1:19:55 And so I guess that’s just been my personal evolution.
1:19:56 Like it’s been fun.
1:19:57 Cause I got, I’ll be the first to say,
1:19:59 I got way too far in that stuff.
1:20:00 Like I got lost in it.
1:20:01 Like that actually does happen.
1:20:05 Ben, your, your partner flagged that for me
1:20:06 like seven or eight months ago
1:20:09 in a really casual Ben way, but like,
1:20:10 – Ben’s non-confrontational.
1:20:11 What did he say to you?
1:20:12 – It was just something along the lines of like,
1:20:14 well, if you, if you do that stuff enough,
1:20:17 don’t you start to kind of believe it or become it.
1:20:18 And that stuck with me.
1:20:19 And I don’t think he knows that stuck with me.
1:20:21 I don’t even know if he remembers he said that,
1:20:23 but there were a lot of little things like that
1:20:24 that prompted me to go.
1:20:24 – It’s like an actor.
1:20:26 You stay in character because you’re doing it for the role,
1:20:27 but then at some point-
1:20:28 – It’s method acting.
1:20:30 – Yeah, you lose yourself in the, you get lost in the song.
1:20:32 – And actually that happened to me.
1:20:33 And, and unfortunately,
1:20:35 like a lot of the things I was leaning into
1:20:37 do make you like cool or whatever.
1:20:39 So now there’s this, this audience that looks up to you
1:20:41 in a very specific light.
1:20:42 So you have two choices.
1:20:44 You keep down the same path or you say,
1:20:46 whoops, you know, like this is what I actually am.
1:20:47 And so in fact,
1:20:49 I did a lot of the negative parts while stuff like,
1:20:51 I love fashion, I love design.
1:20:52 Like I genuinely do.
1:20:53 I think it’s individualism.
1:20:56 I think there’s like, you know.
1:20:57 – Can we do the fashion?
1:20:59 Okay, so, so here’s me.
1:21:00 I have Nike shoes.
1:21:03 It should have been this new balance to go full dad mode.
1:21:05 I’m wearing sweatpants and a plain black shirt.
1:21:06 – Those Kobe’s are?
1:21:07 – No, these are not Kobe’s.
1:21:09 These are $90 Nike’s.
1:21:10 I just like this color of green.
1:21:12 So let’s go head to toe.
1:21:13 Teach me what you got on here.
1:21:14 – Full San Francisco.
1:21:15 This is full.
1:21:16 – And I love it.
1:21:17 – I’m matching socks today.
1:21:19 That’s only because I knew I had to step my game up for you.
1:21:21 Normally it’d be mismatched socks.
1:21:23 It’d be more sweat jeans.
1:21:24 These are Lulu’s at least.
1:21:26 And then like, this might be my daughter’s,
1:21:27 but I was like, oh, hold on.
1:21:28 He’s going to have hella accessories.
1:21:30 Let me come strong with the wrist.
1:21:31 – I have less accessories than you do.
1:21:32 So let’s start with the wrist.
1:21:33 How much do you think this is?
1:21:34 – You start with the wrist.
1:21:34 Is that like part of the fashion?
1:21:37 – No, no, I just, I don’t want to talk about Louis Vuitton.
1:21:38 – Okay.
1:21:40 That looks fancy to me.
1:21:42 All right, my honest guess would have been
1:21:43 that that’s a $20,000 watch.
1:21:47 This is a vintage Oakley from like the 90s.
1:21:48 And it was like $3,500.
1:21:49 – Okay.
1:21:52 – So I don’t believe that like expense and costs.
1:21:53 I have some expensive stuff,
1:21:56 but I think like it’s way cooler to put together
1:21:58 like unique kind of stuff.
1:22:02 This shirt is this gentleman, the brand’s URL.
1:22:03 I can’t pronounce his name,
1:22:05 but he’s like the head photographer for Vogue.
1:22:07 And like he did all of Kendrick Lamar’s stuff.
1:22:09 And again, not super expensive,
1:22:11 but like very on the come up.
1:22:15 The jeans were from Kanye’s, like this was probably,
1:22:18 like he’s not cheap, like probably 300 bucks or something,
1:22:20 but not mind blowing.
1:22:24 Kanye’s free Larry Hoover tour with Drake.
1:22:26 These were probably like 150 bucks, like two bucks,
1:22:29 not expensive Louis Vuitton boots,
1:22:31 which were expensive at $2,500.
1:22:34 I love what Pharrell is one of my business idols.
1:22:39 I think there’s a huge gap between like artistry culture
1:22:40 and actual business.
1:22:41 Pharrell has that quote.
1:22:46 It’s creativity without business is victimization
1:22:49 and business without creativity is just dumb.
1:22:51 And I think he stepping into the head of Louis Vuitton,
1:22:55 like a brand I would typically never wear or care about
1:22:58 is the perfect example of those two things merging,
1:23:01 creativity with meaningful enterprise.
1:23:04 Bernardo knows top three richest people because of that.
1:23:07 – All right, I got a little bit,
1:23:08 I got a little bit cooler.
1:23:09 I don’t think I could pull it off.
1:23:10 – I think you could pull it off.
1:23:11 – Maybe, I don’t know.
1:23:15 You got to give me like the dad baby steps version of these.
1:23:17 I’m going to start at the wrist.
1:23:20 Take a simple, and then we’ll go from there.
1:23:22 Actually, I should just show up for,
1:23:24 we should have done a thing where it’s like,
1:23:25 I don’t know if you’ve seen Rick Glassman.
1:23:27 He does these interviews where he does a podcast,
1:23:30 but he’ll go and then it’ll cut and they’ll switch outfits.
1:23:31 – Oh, that’s funny.
1:23:33 – It’s so funny when they do shit like that.
1:23:35 But we’ll just pretend I did that.
1:23:36 – That’s awesome.
1:23:37 – Rob, thanks for coming on, man.
1:23:39 You, everybody should find you.
1:23:40 Rob the Bank,
1:23:42 which is one of the greatest handles of all time.
1:23:44 – Thank you for that.
1:23:45 – Well, you were already saying it.
1:23:46 I didn’t come up with it,
1:23:48 but I was like, dude, that should be your handle.
1:23:49 – Wait a minute, huh?
1:23:49 – That should be your brand.
1:23:50 What is this, the genius CEO?
1:23:51 No, no, no, no.
1:23:53 You should be Rob the Bank.
1:23:54 – And just wait, full disclaimer before we,
1:23:56 you know, my last company was the genius brand.
1:23:58 So I didn’t just, you know, it just looked bad.
1:23:59 It looked bad.
1:24:00 But no, thank you for having me.
1:24:01 Seriously, this means the world.
1:24:03 Now I really appreciate it.
1:24:04 – Thanks for doing it.
1:24:06 ♪ I feel like I can rule the world ♪
1:24:08 ♪ I know I could be what I want to ♪
1:24:11 ♪ I put my all in it like no days off ♪
1:24:15 ♪ On the road, let’s travel, never looking back ♪
1:24:19 – Hey, Sean here.
1:24:21 I want to take a minute to tell you a David Ogilvy story.
1:24:22 One of the great ad men.
1:24:25 He said, “Remember, the consumer is not a moron.
1:24:26 She’s your wife.
1:24:28 You wouldn’t lie to your own wife.”
1:24:29 Said, “Don’t lie to mine.”
1:24:30 And I love that.
1:24:31 You guys, you’re my family.
1:24:32 You’re like my wife.
1:24:33 And I won’t lie to you either.
1:24:35 So I’ll tell you the truth.
1:24:36 For every company I own right now,
1:24:39 six companies, I use Mercury for all of them.
1:24:41 So I’m proud to partner with Mercury
1:24:43 because I use it for all of my banking needs
1:24:46 across my personal account, my business accounts,
1:24:47 and anytime I start a new company,
1:24:49 this is my first move, I go open up a Mercury account.
1:24:50 I’m very confident in recommending it
1:24:51 because I actually use it.
1:24:52 I’ve used it for years.
1:24:54 It is the best product on the market.
1:24:56 So if you want to be like me
1:24:58 and 200,000 other ambitious founders,
1:25:01 go to mercury.com and apply in minutes.
1:25:03 And remember, Mercury is a financial technology company,
1:25:04 not a bank.
1:25:06 This service is provided by Choice Financial Group
1:25:09 and Evolve Bank and Trust members, FDIC.
1:25:10 All right, back to the episode.