AI transcript
0:00:08 Today, we’re joined by Ryza Mark. She helped build and shape Notebook LM at Google, one of the most
0:00:14 interesting AI products to come out in the past year. Now she’s working on Hux, a bold push towards
0:00:19 true personal AI. You know, most people still use AI like a static tool, but she’s aiming for the
0:00:25 next real breakthrough, which I’m excited about. A personalized AI that actually knows you and helps
0:00:29 you in your daily life. So let’s just jump right in, in my conversation with Ryza Mark.
0:00:36 Ryza, thank you for coming on the X way. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Yeah,
0:00:41 it’s great to finally kind of virtually meet you. You know, we’ve been talking on X, I think,
0:00:44 for a long time now. I’m trying to remember how I first got connected to you. I feel like it was
0:00:50 maybe Logan Kilpatrick at Google had shared something about Notebook LM with me and I started checking it
0:00:55 out. I was like hounding you trying to get you on the podcast because Notebook LM was like one of the
0:01:00 coolest things I’d ever seen. But yeah, now you’re doing a startup called Hux. So I guess I’m just
0:01:04 curious, you know, what’s that journey been like? And like, how did you go from doing Notebook LM at
0:01:09 Google and to now you’re doing this new startup? Yeah, such a great question. Thank you for asking.
0:01:15 I do think we did get connected right after Notebook LM kind of blew up, you know, towards the end of last
0:01:20 year. And coincidentally, that was around the same time that me and my co-founders, we were like, hey,
0:01:27 we’ve done it. This thing is, you know, gone big after working on it for about two and a half years.
0:01:33 And we were like, what do we want to do? You know, and I think a lot of folks honestly were like,
0:01:38 well, duh, right? Like, stay at Google. Your careers are going to take off. It was like the common
0:01:43 sense thing to do. But what was funny was like, I kept waking up in the middle of the night and I was
0:01:49 like, darn, like, I really want to do something else. I feel like if there was ever a time to do a
0:01:55 startup, it will be now. Yeah, totally. For obviously, like so many interesting reasons. And it’s so funny
0:02:00 because people are always like, wow, you must have had such a great idea to quit your job. But I’m like, I
0:02:07 don’t know who you think I am, but. You’re just like, I want to start something. Now’s the time. Yeah. I was like,
0:02:10 you don’t need an idea. You could just go do anything. Let me teach you something. How it
0:02:15 works in Silicon Valley is later you rewrite this story and you had a perfect, everything was figured
0:02:23 out. You knew what you were doing. And. A hundred percent. Love being a genius. But no, I mean,
0:02:28 like, honestly, we were just like, wow, if we could ever feel that there was a time to do anything new,
0:02:34 to do anything interesting and, you know, to just have the courage to do it, it was then. And so we quit
0:02:39 it. And we actually spent like a month, honestly, just like brainstorming, hanging out of my house
0:02:45 and just like drawing on pieces of paper that we would just like pass around to each other. And it was just
0:02:50 like a lot of fun. And so where we eventually ended up is actually not too different, I would say, from
0:02:55 like what helped Notebook LM take off. But we knew there was something interesting in the audio space. And
0:02:56 hence Hux was born.
0:02:59 Cool. And your co-founder, did he work with you at Google or?
0:03:05 Oh, yeah. So my two co-founders, Jason and Steven. Jason was a sole designer on Notebook LM.
0:03:11 Steven was one of the tech leads on Notebook LM. We’ve worked together, the three of us, for years.
0:03:16 And so we already had just like really, really good kind of like a working relationship. And,
0:03:21 you know, they’re my friends. And so it was actually really easy. The day that I was like,
0:03:25 wow, I really would like to do this. I was actually at breakfast with Steven. We usually
0:03:30 got breakfast together. I was like, hey, Steven, do you want to do a startup? And he was like,
0:03:32 he thought for a second. He was like, okay.
0:03:39 That was kind of it. And I think, you know, people also ask about that. They’re like, oh,
0:03:42 you know, how did you pitch your co-founders? And I’m like, wait till you hear it.
0:03:43 Yeah.
0:03:44 We had breakfast.
0:03:48 Went to coffee and said, hey, what do you think? Let’s just quit Google and go do something.
0:03:53 Yeah, that was pretty much it. And I think that was the best way to do it because we were like,
0:03:54 all right, we’ll figure it out later.
0:03:58 Yeah. So have you figured it out? Like I looked at your website a little bit, you know,
0:04:02 Hux, H-U-X-E dot com for anyone listening. And because when I heard Notebook LM, and for anyone
0:04:06 who’s not familiar, you know, you can throw a bunch of texts or documents or whatever into,
0:04:10 you know, an L&M and it generates podcast episodes, basically, where you actually hear two hosts
0:04:14 talking to one another. And it’s an amazing tech demo. Like when I heard it, I was like,
0:04:18 this is crazy. But I was also like, is Google ever actually going to figure out how to make
0:04:22 this go mainstream? I don’t think so. And so when I look at your website, I’m like, okay,
0:04:25 maybe that’s what she’s trying to do. Like she’s trying to find the right angle to actually make
0:04:28 something like that go mainstream. What’s the inspiration for it?
0:04:35 So I think it’s close. I think we’re still, I think collectively as people, software builders,
0:04:39 people who are interested in products, of which I think there are like lots of these people now,
0:04:44 especially with AI. I think we are still collectively kind of like feeling at the edges
0:04:49 of what actually is sort of the killer use case for AI. And there’s certainly a lot of these,
0:04:54 right? Like coding is a really big one. ChatGPT as your friend is like a huge one.
0:05:00 But I think we’re still trying to find like more of these mainstream use cases. And I think there
0:05:05 are many, but it requires a lot more product work. And so for something like Hux, our actual sort of
0:05:10 initial nugget that we led with was this, it was just like a really simple idea, which was like,
0:05:15 how come you always have to go first, right? Like how come the AI doesn’t go first? And it’s such a
0:05:20 simple provocation, but it’s actually hard to sort of bring it to life. And so when we walked through
0:05:25 the different ways we might do it, audio was just one of the most straightforward,
0:05:30 most fun ways to do it, where I always tell people about this analogy of like growing up,
0:05:34 one of my favorite things to do is I would wake up and I would turn the radio on like first thing in
0:05:38 the morning, right? And I would just listen to the broadcast. Mostly I just cared if school was
0:05:42 canceled, but then if it wasn’t, it was fine. I would listen to like whatever else I was saying.
0:05:47 And I was like, what is the analog to life today? Yeah. Right. And like with AI,
0:05:51 you can do something interesting, which is like personalized radio. Yeah. A broadcast that’s
0:05:57 made just for you. And so then we just started riffing on it and it’s actually caught on and become
0:06:02 quite interesting. Yeah. That makes me think of that feature that ChatsPT rolled out. Was it Pulse,
0:06:06 I think? Pulse. Which is cool. I’ve been seeing it. It’s like, you know, because I talk to ChatsPT
0:06:12 like daily, like about my business. I’m building, you know, Lorde.com right now in all these crazy
0:06:16 meetings, trying to keep track of all of it and what’s going on and what I’m learning. And Pulse has been
0:06:20 like really useful recently, but I still haven’t gotten in the habit of checking it. And like,
0:06:25 I definitely could see that audio could be great for that, where literally like in the morning when
0:06:29 I do my morning walks, instead of listening to someone else’s podcast, you know, if I had something
0:06:33 that was like relevant to like what I’m actually currently thinking about or doing would be awesome.
0:06:38 Yeah. When we talked to our users, you know, we had this sort of insight in the beginning,
0:06:42 we put it out there and ultimately we were like, people will tell us, right? Like what’s good about
0:06:45 this or what’s not good about this. And we’ll see if there’s actual legs to it.
0:06:49 I think one of the most fascinating things is once we started talking to the people
0:06:55 that are users of Hux, every person would start their stories with like, oh yeah, I love to use
0:06:59 it when I’m driving. I love to use it when I’m brushing my teeth. Actually one time, I think I
0:07:03 talked to nine people in a row that mentioned they use it while they’re brushing their teeth.
0:07:07 And I was like, whoa, it’s like, am I being pranked? It’s like, where did all these people come
0:07:13 from? Why did they tell me they were brushing their teeth? But it really sort of illuminated to me that
0:07:17 there is something interesting today, right? When you’re building products, you can start from a
0:07:20 technology perspective and say, okay, whatever. This technology is cool. I’m going to go build
0:07:26 something around it. Or you can just build around what people are already doing or their habits and try
0:07:33 to hook into it. And so for us, that’s largely like the morning routine. Like people want things in the
0:07:39 morning that help them feel like, all right, this is helping me start my day. And it’s really
0:07:42 interesting you brought up Pulse because we were like, okay, right? What is good about Pulse? What
0:07:46 is good about Hux? Like what are the things these products have in common that we can ultimately
0:07:50 learn from? And it really is just kind of like an idea of an AI that knows you.
0:07:55 Right. So it seems like you guys are taking more like a human centric approach to AI design,
0:07:59 which I love because like a lot of the AI tools, they’re great. They work. It’s really mechanical.
0:08:04 Does it feel very human? Does it fit seamlessly into my life? So anything that just like seamlessly
0:08:08 fits into your life? I love that. I’m curious, like how do you get data into Hux? Like how do
0:08:14 you learn about somebody? That’s a big question I have. Yeah. So there’s a couple of ways that we do
0:08:19 it. During onboarding, you can connect your email or you could connect your calendar. You could do both.
0:08:23 You can connect multiple emails, which was a really big feature request for a while. I’ve actually found
0:08:28 this has been super helpful for me just listening to my work and personal email while I am brushing my
0:08:34 teeth. Super useful. And we also have an interest picker. Just super simple. Just like tell us what
0:08:40 you’re interested in or just type it out. And the collection of kind of like the onboarding signals
0:08:45 along with like the things that you do listen to and engage within the app is what populates it
0:08:51 going forward. And so one of the things that we actually have started doing for people is when you
0:08:57 listen to something on Hux, like in the app, when you open the app again, it generates a totally new
0:09:03 episode of that show. Right. So today, like I was listening to one that was like interesting history,
0:09:08 particularly with food. And it was like episode two, here’s another food. And I was like, oh,
0:09:12 this is pretty great. And so I think it’s the same feeling you kind of get when you’re on Wikipedia and
0:09:16 you’re like clicking around the links and you’re like, wow, I’m getting smarter. It’s like creative.
0:09:20 And it’s like for very little work. I feel like I was listening to something. I’d want some way to
0:09:24 signal to the AI what part of what I listened to was actually interesting to me. Is there any way to do
0:09:30 that yet? Or like, are you guys still figuring that out, I guess? Not yet. We don’t know the
0:09:34 best way to do this because a lot of our users are listening when they’re doing something. Can’t survey
0:09:41 them or whatever. Like, hey, stop brushing your teeth. Yeah. Just like tap it or something. And I think
0:09:47 there’s a little bit of signal we’re able to capture when people interrupt because the shows are fully
0:09:51 interactive. You can interrupt anytime. You can ask follow up questions. So we get a little bit of signal
0:09:55 there. But we think there’s probably better ways. There’s kind of like generically, we can identify
0:10:00 themes that you like, adjacent interests and things like that. And so we’ll probably start there first.
0:10:05 Yeah. I wonder if there’s any way to get data out of ChatsPT and put it into this.
0:10:06 I think that’s the holy grail.
0:10:11 But if you could figure out some way to get that data just right in, that would be phenomenal to figure
0:10:11 that out.
0:10:16 That is huge. I think there’s a lot of things like it, you know, between your browsing data,
0:10:24 your maps data, your Slack. We think about these as kind of very interesting data stores that some of
0:10:29 it, I think, is more directly related, right? So for example, with ChatsPT, like if I was asking about
0:10:34 some issue persistently, maybe like, I don’t know, I’m dealing with like this medical thing,
0:10:39 like that’s probably something that you can create content out of. But then one of the things we
0:10:43 actually talk about really frequently is the stuff you shouldn’t make content out of.
0:10:47 Either because it’s not interesting or it’s like not appropriate, the user doesn’t want to be
0:10:51 reminded of it. And so we think about that equally as much, right? Where I’m like…
0:10:53 You’re having some super personal conversation.
0:10:54 Yeah, yeah.
0:10:58 You’re suing someone, you get some family drama and it’s like, here’s a podcast about
0:11:01 your argument yesterday. You want to relive that? Like, oh, crap.
0:11:07 Exactly, exactly. And so I think that’s why these data stores are super interesting. And I’ll say on a final
0:11:12 note there, there is so much to like when you get a good picture of a person’s life where you can
0:11:17 connect the dots for them, right? Like maybe you don’t think the things you think about at work or
0:11:22 in your personal life or in your hobbies, right, are connected. But actually, when we’ve looked at,
0:11:26 for example, like my data, when we’ve started studying it with Hux, we were like, well, actually,
0:11:33 it turns out that like all of your interests kind of like can be hoovered up together as like history,
0:11:36 science, technology. And that’s kind of it.
0:11:37 Yeah, yeah.
0:11:41 And it’s really interesting where you’re like, oh, you know, these are kind of like the different
0:11:43 poles that make the person.
0:11:43 Right.
0:11:51 All right. You’ve heard how powerful Notebook LM is, but that’s just scratching the surface.
0:11:57 We created a complete guide showing you how to use Notebook LM and Gemini to do 10 hours of research
0:12:01 in 20 minutes. Whether you’re analyzing competitors, developing content strategies,
0:12:06 or learning a new market, this guide is gold. Scan the QR code or click the link in the description.
0:12:08 Now, let’s get back to the show.
0:12:15 Where do you see that going long term? And is this all about
0:12:20 somebody exploring their interests and learning more? Or is there something else that after you
0:12:24 have that data, you can help them do? Or like, how are you thinking about that if you are?
0:12:29 So the way that we’ve thought about this is that we don’t really know of anybody else that’s really
0:12:33 studying sort of like proactive AI. Right.
0:12:38 In the sense that like, it is actually really hard for like the machine to go first, right? Like you do
0:12:44 need a little bit of knowledge about the user. And then you have to sort of figure out how can I create
0:12:48 a title so interesting that they would click on it, which is like the first layer. And the second layer
0:12:54 is then getting them to listen to the whole thing. So we think about it as kind of like a funnel
0:13:01 of passive content is like a gateway to a totally different type of AI interaction that I don’t think
0:13:05 we’ve had much of an opportunity to learn about yet. Because everything we are learning about
0:13:12 with these AI tools is very much like dependent on the user’s intention. For example, like when I go to
0:13:17 cloud code, like I’m not randomly in cloud code, like I’m trying to get a job done. When I’m in chat
0:13:24 GPT, I’m asking this question. And it’s very much like I’m trying to pull value out of the tool versus
0:13:30 I’m here to be like delighted or I’m trying to get ready for the day, which is a much more broad goal.
0:13:35 And so I think that what we’ll probably learn is that users will probably want to take this one
0:13:39 of two ways. We think it’s either the content direction, which is fully like entertainment
0:13:45 focused, right? Kind of like TikTok, Netflix, whatever. Like I just want a personal kind of content
0:13:51 space. Or it will go in the direction of assistance, which is, hey, this is like next generation assistance,
0:13:56 which is passive content that is proactive is the first layer of it. And so I think we’re slowly
0:14:01 discovering it’s probably more likely the second one. Yeah, it makes sense. Especially if you know
0:14:05 like what I’m working on, what I care about, if you can start proactively suggesting things to me that I
0:14:10 could be doing, whether it’s learning something I need to learn or something I should be doing. And
0:14:15 then especially if you could help me in some way with that would be awesome. Yeah. And it’s interesting
0:14:21 too, because we talk a lot about like stuff that AI can do and we talk a lot about automation, but I think
0:14:28 that in real life, what most people find helpful is not really AI doing stuff for you yet. Right. It’s
0:14:34 actually interesting. We see a lot more of like summarization, catching up, explaining something
0:14:39 to me like we’re still there. And I think we still have a lot of opportunity to get that right. And like,
0:14:45 honestly, just like earn people’s trust. Because I think if you can get these tasks, you know, to a place
0:14:49 where it’s like, everybody is like doing it. And it’s like very normal to listen to like your AI
0:14:55 assistant, like summarize your emails for you. It becomes a lot easier for the next step, which is
0:15:00 like, okay, respond to this guy. Yeah. Right. Or pay that bill. Yeah. Trust is gonna be so important,
0:15:05 right? Because like, there’s a fine line there, right? Like, are you manipulating me? Like this thing
0:15:09 that’s helping run my life? Is it helping me? Or are you like manipulating me to extract more value out of
0:15:14 me? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I think like helpfulness here is like really interesting. Because for
0:15:20 example, whenever you make a suggestion to a user, I think it’s interesting to think about whether or
0:15:25 not that user would have done that anyway, if you hadn’t made the suggestion. And so that’s the type
0:15:29 of thing that we think about, which is like, hey, before we step in that territory of making suggestions,
0:15:33 let’s just help with like these really basic kind of like passive content tasks.
0:15:37 Where are you guys at with Hux right now? Like, is it private? Is it launched? And do you have like a
0:15:42 demo or anything you could share? Oh, yeah. I mean, right now, anybody can download the app. It’s available
0:15:49 on Android and iOS. You can go to hux.com. We do tell people it’s super early. And every version of
0:15:53 the app that we launch actually changes the app. I’ll show you a quick demo on my phone.
0:16:01 my phone yes um here we go we just launched a new version we shipped the shows and episodes that i
0:16:06 was telling you about earlier but you can see here at the top you have it’s called the daily brief
0:16:11 and when you play the daily brief it’ll just go through your emails your calendar and it goes
0:16:16 through all the topics that you’re interested in but then it also shows you you can see here there’s
0:16:21 like a feed of interesting shows that it thinks like you’ll be interested in so in this case it’s
0:16:25 actually it’s a funny title but it’s so niche and it’s something that i actually really care about
0:16:30 which is basically what’s the effect of ultra processed foods on your body it’s just like one
0:16:35 of those things where you’re like i don’t know if i would have like sought this out but it actually is
0:16:41 like a a digest of like the report on how ultra processed foods affects your body and i was like
0:16:45 wow this is like super interesting and it primarily knows that from your emails or it knows that from
0:16:49 like uh things you’ve told it or things you’ve listened to before so at this point it’s things
0:16:54 i’ve listened to before things like my news for example right like that’s very much informed by
0:16:59 like my emails and it knows like i’m a startup founder it knows i’m into ai but you can see that
0:17:03 pretty much all of this is like ai news yeah right that i could listen to and you can kind of see
0:17:09 there’s like more here and then every single one of these has like a show associated with it i wonder
0:17:15 if this is one of those companies where it could be smart to like highly target a specific first ideal
0:17:18 user or something right like it feels like this is one of those startups where it’s almost like you
0:17:23 know superhuman where they targeted vcs yeah and it helped them raise tons of money you know i can
0:17:28 imagine this being super useful for vcs because like they email a lot and then you can easily identify
0:17:35 what companies they’re looking to fund or interested in or categories stages and you could like give them
0:17:40 a podcast of like who raised money for these kind of companies this last week that way they know to ping
0:17:45 those people to at least initiate a conversation in a relationship right which is what all the best vcs do
0:17:49 is like monitor that and then try to reach out to people yeah that could be interesting if you could
0:17:54 like target someone like make it where they all use it and and then you expand to other kinds of people
0:18:00 that start with like just an idea yeah i think that’s right and i think that we actually at this current
0:18:06 stage we’re starting to see these cohorts emerge organically too which is you know what kind of person
0:18:11 wants to listen to a personalized radio show in the morning right right and it is it is like a specific
0:18:16 sort of people but i think that it’s right i think they are largely early adopters but i think that they
0:18:22 reflect like a broader user base for sure so uh you know let’s say uh hux is super successful you know
0:18:28 you’ve nailed personalized ai and you’re one of the leaders of personalized ai like where do you see the
0:18:31 future of the product you know i know there’s a lot of different ways it could go but like you know 10 years
0:18:37 from now hux is huge it’s helping a lot of people i mean 10 is kind of far yeah of course yeah a month
0:18:43 is far right now right like a month is far right now i mean honestly like i think a lot uh i actually go
0:18:48 back to a lot of like sci-fi right i mean i i love a lot of like science fiction like star trek
0:18:55 read a lot of books watch like every sci-fi movie right and i think about how so much of what we’ve
0:19:00 watched in these movies like that are actually like really positive sort of technological experiences
0:19:06 are still not here right today right even though we are kind of talking to our phones we’re kind of
0:19:11 talking to our computers ai is like the farthest we’ve ever gotten in terms of like this whole like
0:19:19 talking and audio thing it still is not quite there yeah and so if this goes well what i kind of imagine
0:19:25 is like a broader shift in how we use our devices right because today we are largely like on our screens
0:19:31 yeah and tapping on our keyboards and that’s how it’s been forever like it just hasn’t really changed
0:19:39 but i i imagine that what will actually be monumental and very very interesting is when we actually make
0:19:44 the shift from typing away at our computers to actually talking and listening yeah and that will
0:19:49 just be a very very different kind of like human computer interaction yeah i’m hoping that’s where things go
0:19:53 and then we end up more in the physical world like i don’t you know yeah people are like are we going
0:19:57 into the matrix you know and i’m like i don’t you know some people might but hopefully not everyone
0:20:02 like hopefully we you know actually ai enables us to actually go out and live our lives and helps me
0:20:06 solve a lot of the tedious work i don’t really want to deal with and helps me learn things i want to learn
0:20:11 meet new people do new things yeah that’s what i’m hoping for i actually largely agree and i think we
0:20:19 are correctly in that timeline right where it’s the more that i think about it that i sort of observed
0:20:25 for myself i really like it when i’m in the real world i like talking to people i like taking a walk
0:20:31 i like hiking i like driving i like you know playing music and doing my chores in the kitchen like this is
0:20:39 sort of what i think gives a lot of people joy but we are still you know largely living our lives on
0:20:43 screens for one reason or another so i think technology that sort of helps us embrace both
0:20:47 which is like look maybe the feeling is that i can’t walk away from this work or i want to be
0:20:53 productive something that sort of satisfies both of those i think is an interesting thing to pursue
0:21:00 and i feel like audio actually is one of the right solutions for that yeah it makes sense where do you
0:21:05 think ai is at right now today like you know there’s a lot of people who think that we’re in some kind
0:21:09 of bubble right now some people say progress is stalled which i haven’t seen but what is your
0:21:14 take on like ai overall right now and like outside of talks i mean i think it’s interesting because i
0:21:22 feel like if you based it off of what the people are saying on x right or on twitter you would think
0:21:27 that like we’re on this like sort of constant like roller coaster of like we’re on top of the world
0:21:34 or the cycle is ending no we’re on top of the world nvidia and it crashed again and it crashed again
0:21:39 but i think that in real life for most people it’s probably like a little more stable than that
0:21:45 to the extent that the products that you’re using out there as an everyday person is still just chat gpt
0:21:51 you know and i think about that a lot because when i think about the the emergence of things like
0:21:59 instagram right facebook google these were the apps that started to take up space on my phone and so
0:22:04 when i think about the cohort of ai apps that are going to take up space on somebody’s phone
0:22:09 to me it’s like there’s just one it’s just still chat gpt so what’s number two what’s number three
0:22:14 what’s number four right what does it do for the everyday person and so the utility has to be
0:22:22 so generalized that you can think about every kind of person consuming it and so yeah to me i think
0:22:27 we’re still very very early i do think we’re probably in some kind of bubble but hopefully
0:22:32 it’s the kind of bubble that just leads a lot of like infrastructure building that helps support you
0:22:37 know apps number two and three and four and so on yeah makes sense i think people hear a bubble they
0:22:41 think like there’s no substance behind it like there’s definitely substance behind everything in ai
0:22:46 so if people get carried away and like there’s some over investment that’s just part of the process in my
0:22:53 opinion yeah yeah i mean it’s just exuberance right i think yeah rightfully so many of us are excited
0:22:59 and i think just with anything that’s new like there’s just a lot of fumbling there’s a lot of
0:23:06 fumbling around as much as like we want to sound confident and say we know where we’re going i think the
0:23:12 truth about you know exploration is that we’re gonna make mistakes some of us are gonna get lost but
0:23:16 it’s gonna be okay in the long run right you’re talking about like how you know everyone just uses
0:23:21 chat bt which is totally true like i i’ve tried to be a person like on x before well like oh i’m trying
0:23:26 these new things and like you know the reality is i right now i literally use chat bt and the main way
0:23:32 i use ai and then for coding i primarily use factory i also have to use cloud code both great and there
0:23:39 that’s mainly it occasionally perplexity uh and that’s mainly it uh i do worry a little bit about
0:23:44 that like especially now that chats bt’s memory is so good you know you know google just had their their
0:23:50 new gemini 3 pro come out and it’s awesome it’s really good it doesn’t have my memory and so i just
0:23:55 haven’t used it besides like testing it you know after it was shared with me yeah i’m using the model
0:24:00 in factory now for coding like i had to update my website which i thought was just was mind-blowing to me
0:24:05 because usually ai has been so horrible at design i asked it hey uh what do you think about my website
0:24:10 are there any ways you could improve it and here are three brands i like you know well for me like
0:24:14 palantir and some others right like here’s yeah yeah and like and it just did like a facelift on my
0:24:21 website i’m like what yeah i think it’s pretty good design yeah yeah yeah but it’s crazy yeah but i’m
0:24:26 still not using gemini as my main ai app so i do wonder like how you know is everything going to be
0:24:29 chat bt hopefully there’s going to be things like hux and all these other apps and
0:24:35 chat bt doesn’t just eat everything you know well yeah i mean i i think it’s also because like there’s
0:24:40 just such a limited amount of time in my day right and even though all of these products have come out
0:24:47 it’s not like my days changed and so i think that the apps still have to map really closely to the thing
0:24:52 that i am doing or the thing that i am trying to do and i’m sure like some of these things will change
0:25:00 but until that time until the solution sort of squarely slots into something that majorly takes
0:25:05 up my life for my day like it’s probably just not going to happen yesterday actually the team and i
0:25:09 were talking about how good gemini 3 is we’re like wow this is like pretty impressive it’s like really
0:25:15 cool we played around with it and then we were like how many of us are going to use gemini like gemini
0:25:21 the app and we had a funny little debate where we were like why don’t we like does anybody know
0:25:27 and uh jason my uh my co-founder who’s a designer he was like because the background isn’t black and
0:25:32 i was like what and we all opened it and we had this like funny realization that it’s like an off
0:25:36 blue black background yeah i was like that’s so interesting is that it oh i noticed that immediately
0:25:41 well did you okay i yeah one of the things i tell people all the time is like i’m like worthless
0:25:48 you know at this i’m somebody who’s like kind of okay at design kind of okay at coding hopefully good
0:25:52 at business but you know i like so i have experience in a bunch of fields but uh yeah the first time i
0:25:55 looked at it i was like i should tell logan like this i don’t know you need to change it there is
0:25:59 something to it but i think we were we were saying like we’re not going to switch yeah but i do wonder
0:26:04 also if that’s a perception thing i do wonder if it’s because chat bt was the first one that people
0:26:10 used so it’s anchored in people’s mind that that’s what ai looks like yeah so anything that’s not that
0:26:16 is not standard i think that’s true i think there’s a lot to it i do think that even though
0:26:21 chat gpt is largely the same since it launched right it’s just like a text box that i press enter on
0:26:29 hasn’t changed very much it has um a very very high level of polish on the app yeah right it’s like
0:26:36 it never bungles when i press enter right the answer always renders correctly and so i i think
0:26:41 that there is a certain level of polish on the app that i’m just like i don’t really want to try another
0:26:46 thing because it’s not going to be this yeah totally like even like uh you know grok is getting pretty
0:26:51 good yeah and i’ve tried the app though i’m like just like in a daily usage the ui as well as the
0:26:57 memory features lacking it’s just like no i’m just chat gpt is my default still i have a an opinion
0:27:02 that i feel like is very unscientific but i swear that it’s also the personalities of the models
0:27:10 because i use chat gpt for my personal mobile use case but claude is kind of like my work friend
0:27:15 interesting right and it’s like you know i feel like we would normally never say these things about
0:27:20 the ai apps but i do really feel like i appreciate the way claude answers my questions and how else
0:27:25 would you describe it it’s friendly it’s like a personality nice guy it’s like a thing in the name
0:27:31 right it’s like a nice co-worker yeah so i appreciate it yeah that is interesting yeah maybe the future
0:27:34 that’s what it is like gemini needs like a personality what is gemini it’s almost like it’s
0:27:37 like it’s almost implies two personalities two with the name right it’s like maybe they need like a
0:27:42 different brand too because yeah because claude i can imagine like oh that’s like a friendly dude
0:27:47 or something like you know not intimidating guy just like easy to talk to person you know i genuinely
0:27:53 like i feel like if you’re like all right what does each of these you know apps look like as like a person
0:27:57 i think like it wouldn’t be hard i feel like it’s a good litmus test it wouldn’t be hard for people
0:28:02 to describe them you know like when you just said that like i didn’t even realize it but i’m like oh
0:28:08 yeah claude for sure has a beanie wears glasses like yeah yeah yeah yeah you know so it’s not hard
0:28:12 and i think that that definitely plays into it yeah i’ve actually kind of slight just my personal life
0:28:16 i’ve kind of slightly made fun of claude for that reason in the past but i do still like it in like
0:28:20 certain contexts like you just said like just like casual conversations about things yeah yeah it’s
0:28:27 like a great friend there exactly yeah cool uh one thing i like to ask a lot of guests i have a 12 year
0:28:32 old son and i always think about what should i be teaching him right now what would you be teaching
0:28:36 a child right now to like help them because it feels like things are changing so fast and it’s really
0:28:41 hard to know what to teach a child help them be more successful in the future yeah because like maybe
0:28:46 coding for logic but are they actually gonna be coding you know and yeah so maybe they need more like
0:28:52 interpersonal skills to talk to people and do yeah yeah business deals and like i don’t know what are
0:28:57 your thoughts on that oh my gosh this is a great question i just tweeted about this like last week
0:29:02 oh and it was because alexander wang was on tbpn right and he had said something like here’s the
0:29:09 advice i would give every 13 year old and he said learn vibe coding and i remember i was watching it and i
0:29:15 was like huh i don’t know i don’t know if i agree with it i probably don’t and i had tweeted about it
0:29:19 and i would say like 90 of the people who reacted to my tweet were like pretty supportive they were like
0:29:23 oh i agree with you and i’ll tell you my answer in like a second but then like 10 of people were like
0:29:29 you’re gonna be poor like the advice you’re giving to people is going to land them into you know poverty
0:29:36 and what i had said was and i still believe this and i do also have a 14 year old the thing that i would
0:29:44 encourage like every person in that age is to sort of study and absorb the things that i think make us
0:29:50 uniquely human and i had to really think about this about like hey what is it right especially
0:29:55 as we start to see these models become better and better at coding and even you know think about
0:30:00 the example we just gave about like gemini 3 making suggestions tasteful ones to your landing page
0:30:06 right like that you you kind of imagine is like wow that was tasteful right that could have been
0:30:11 uniquely human except now it’s doing it and so the thing that i had said was like go watch movies
0:30:18 play sports learn musical instruments yeah go look at art and see if you feel anything
0:30:22 read my son too i was like as long as you do it in moderation like it’s actually good to like play
0:30:27 games and watch movies as long as you’re not doing it all the time exclusively it’s good just like
0:30:31 culturally take this in and there’s also little lessons in a lot of kind of movies there’s little
0:30:36 lessons well i think it’s a good kind of foil right because it sort of challenges you to feel
0:30:40 one way or another and i think the reason why i would encourage this is like you also learn a lot
0:30:45 about yourself right like for example i hate the little mermaid but i don’t think i could have
0:30:49 learned it if i didn’t watch it and there’s a kind of like a weird reason why i don’t like it but i love
0:30:53 like all these other movies right that i watched when i was a kid that’s one of my favorites when i was a
0:31:03 like i was like yo how did you leave your family for some dude like you were looking at from like
0:31:08 down here like that makes no sense i was in love with ariel and i never understood why i was in love
0:31:13 with her i was like this is weird you know but whatever yeah so that’s what i’m saying imagine if
0:31:18 kids didn’t watch little mermaid they couldn’t have this fight right like 10 years from now so i think
0:31:23 like doing the things that make you uniquely like a person and gives you these like opportunities to
0:31:27 like connect with other people like if all we did was like vibe code when we were kids like what are
0:31:31 we going to talk about like how was your vibe coding when you were 13 right it’s just very uh one
0:31:36 dimensional and i understand that like you know a lot of people in the comments were like that’s like
0:31:41 one of the ways to sort of elevate your status in society and make money is like get a job and so i
0:31:47 definitely understand that but i think that’s like more than anything what will set you apart is like
0:31:51 who you are as a person so just like invest in that yeah totally i’m in japan right now probably
0:31:55 moving back to california but i’ve been out here for about three years and you know that’s one thing
0:32:00 about the schooling and stuff here is like people just push their kids to constantly be studying
0:32:06 and it’s like how do you have time to find out who you are yes all right that’s like really important
0:32:12 versus just like rote memorization of things that ai can do yeah my son obviously wants to like
0:32:16 spend more time like doing new things you know i’ve tried vibe coding stuff with him just to like so
0:32:20 he was aware of it existing so like we’ve tried replit we’ve tried uh factory and some other
0:32:26 stuff and and he thought it was so cool to see that but you know now he’s like wanting to make uh
0:32:31 you know like a roblox game and things like this exactly yeah and i was like okay but first like you
0:32:35 know and i’m not great at coding but i know enough that i can teach him some basics and so i’m like
0:32:39 okay first i think they use like lua for scripting or something so like let’s look the basics of lua and
0:32:44 like look up you know how do you make a basic script and then later if you use you know some kind of tool to
0:32:49 help you you know sure that’s cool but like learn the basics you know yeah yeah yeah no for sure ai for
0:32:54 everything for sure and i actually think you know this is i think the difference between like studying
0:33:01 just like coding or vibe coding versus like hey take the time to understand like computer science right
0:33:06 how do these things work where did they come from how should i think about building applications because
0:33:13 even today like you know we talk about this all the time ai coding is like a really great capability of
0:33:17 these models but it still requires like a person to put these things together yeah particularly for
0:33:23 complicated things and the real boost here is that we can build more and more complicated things that do
0:33:29 more sophisticated tasks you know but it’s like humans and ai together yeah i think even if kids end up
0:33:34 using ai for everything for coding in the future it’s really good for them to have some understanding of
0:33:37 like what’s actually going on under the hood even if they don’t understand all of it but
0:33:41 my son actually started with like explaining to him cpus and ram and things like this
0:33:45 and also showing him the command line too and he was like what that’s like you could actually move
0:33:49 around the folders and you can change stuff and it’s amazing it’s all just like a graphical interface
0:33:53 on top of that kind of and it’s like you know he was he was mind blown to like learn that you know
0:33:58 yeah yeah and so that’s that’s probably what i would tell every 13 year old is like go do things that are
0:34:07 fun follow your curiosity and you know take cs50 at the end at the end yeah yeah yeah one last uh fun
0:34:12 question i like to ask people so you know so you’re in san francisco you get into a time machine maybe it’s
0:34:16 like a bill and ted kind of time machine like a you know phone booth or something you get in you get
0:34:21 out you’re in san francisco it’s 2050 like what does it look like it’s like are things dramatically
0:34:27 different is all waymos and robots or is it you know the skyline looks different or is it all mostly
0:34:32 the same oh i love this question i just watched the matrix where i was like oh i hope it’s not that you
0:34:37 know i don’t know if you know actually the crazy story but like i actually partnered with the producer
0:34:42 of the matrix that’s how laura got started at barry osborne we were business partners for a year and a
0:34:46 half and we tried to do a crazy studio together didn’t work out covid and other things and movies
0:34:51 are very hard but yeah anyways i have a crazy connection to the matrix that’s crazy well it’s
0:34:55 one of my favorite movies i haven’t seen it in a while so i was re-watching it and i was like you know
0:35:00 easily right it could be this right just thinking about it and like right kind of thinking that far ahead
0:35:04 but then i thought about one of my other favorite movies which is big hero six and i don’t know if
0:35:11 you’ve seen it yes but big hero six is so cool because it’s like it’s easy you have young people
0:35:15 able to like go to schools that are dedicated to building cool technology that they’re interested
0:35:21 in you build machines that are just like super helpful and you know you just watch big hero six
0:35:27 and you feel great and i kind of imagine not that literally but just like how it feels right which
0:35:32 is like this is how i think it’s supposed to feel which is it’s exciting it’s optimistic yeah it’s a
0:35:36 great movie yeah everybody for the most part is like really helpful and collaborative towards each
0:35:40 other and you can tell like the fictional city they live in is called san francisco i think yeah
0:35:44 that’s why i’ve actually shown a bunch because like he grew up in san francisco but then he’s
0:35:49 been back and forth to japan yeah most of his life so like he loves it it’s like it’s a mixture of his
0:35:54 two worlds you know and it’s it’s a great movie yeah yeah and i think that to me if i could be in a
0:35:59 time machine and that’s what i stepped out of i’d be perfectly happy yeah totally me too well riza this
0:36:04 has been a great conversation i appreciate you coming on where should people find you online and uh and
0:36:09 also if you want to i mean obviously they should go to uh hux you know h-u-x-e.com and check it out
0:36:13 but uh where can they find you online and if there’s anything else you want to tell the audience as well
0:36:18 for you off here yeah i mean i would love it if folks want to try hux.com we also have a discord
0:36:24 server it’s got i think 6 000 people in it now but it’s pretty active and people are so helpful like i love
0:36:31 i always tell the people that we have five folks on our team and an extended crew of 6 000 more yeah that’s
0:36:36 amazing that’s a great community it’s really great it’s super cool yeah and on x where i primarily
0:36:42 say random things it’s riza martin yeah cool if you want my advice for 13 year olds that’s where you can
0:36:46 find it yeah awesome well riza it’s been awesome and thank you so much for coming on nathan thank you
0:36:48 so much thanks for having me yeah
0:00:14 interesting AI products to come out in the past year. Now she’s working on Hux, a bold push towards
0:00:19 true personal AI. You know, most people still use AI like a static tool, but she’s aiming for the
0:00:25 next real breakthrough, which I’m excited about. A personalized AI that actually knows you and helps
0:00:29 you in your daily life. So let’s just jump right in, in my conversation with Ryza Mark.
0:00:36 Ryza, thank you for coming on the X way. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Yeah,
0:00:41 it’s great to finally kind of virtually meet you. You know, we’ve been talking on X, I think,
0:00:44 for a long time now. I’m trying to remember how I first got connected to you. I feel like it was
0:00:50 maybe Logan Kilpatrick at Google had shared something about Notebook LM with me and I started checking it
0:00:55 out. I was like hounding you trying to get you on the podcast because Notebook LM was like one of the
0:01:00 coolest things I’d ever seen. But yeah, now you’re doing a startup called Hux. So I guess I’m just
0:01:04 curious, you know, what’s that journey been like? And like, how did you go from doing Notebook LM at
0:01:09 Google and to now you’re doing this new startup? Yeah, such a great question. Thank you for asking.
0:01:15 I do think we did get connected right after Notebook LM kind of blew up, you know, towards the end of last
0:01:20 year. And coincidentally, that was around the same time that me and my co-founders, we were like, hey,
0:01:27 we’ve done it. This thing is, you know, gone big after working on it for about two and a half years.
0:01:33 And we were like, what do we want to do? You know, and I think a lot of folks honestly were like,
0:01:38 well, duh, right? Like, stay at Google. Your careers are going to take off. It was like the common
0:01:43 sense thing to do. But what was funny was like, I kept waking up in the middle of the night and I was
0:01:49 like, darn, like, I really want to do something else. I feel like if there was ever a time to do a
0:01:55 startup, it will be now. Yeah, totally. For obviously, like so many interesting reasons. And it’s so funny
0:02:00 because people are always like, wow, you must have had such a great idea to quit your job. But I’m like, I
0:02:07 don’t know who you think I am, but. You’re just like, I want to start something. Now’s the time. Yeah. I was like,
0:02:10 you don’t need an idea. You could just go do anything. Let me teach you something. How it
0:02:15 works in Silicon Valley is later you rewrite this story and you had a perfect, everything was figured
0:02:23 out. You knew what you were doing. And. A hundred percent. Love being a genius. But no, I mean,
0:02:28 like, honestly, we were just like, wow, if we could ever feel that there was a time to do anything new,
0:02:34 to do anything interesting and, you know, to just have the courage to do it, it was then. And so we quit
0:02:39 it. And we actually spent like a month, honestly, just like brainstorming, hanging out of my house
0:02:45 and just like drawing on pieces of paper that we would just like pass around to each other. And it was just
0:02:50 like a lot of fun. And so where we eventually ended up is actually not too different, I would say, from
0:02:55 like what helped Notebook LM take off. But we knew there was something interesting in the audio space. And
0:02:56 hence Hux was born.
0:02:59 Cool. And your co-founder, did he work with you at Google or?
0:03:05 Oh, yeah. So my two co-founders, Jason and Steven. Jason was a sole designer on Notebook LM.
0:03:11 Steven was one of the tech leads on Notebook LM. We’ve worked together, the three of us, for years.
0:03:16 And so we already had just like really, really good kind of like a working relationship. And,
0:03:21 you know, they’re my friends. And so it was actually really easy. The day that I was like,
0:03:25 wow, I really would like to do this. I was actually at breakfast with Steven. We usually
0:03:30 got breakfast together. I was like, hey, Steven, do you want to do a startup? And he was like,
0:03:32 he thought for a second. He was like, okay.
0:03:39 That was kind of it. And I think, you know, people also ask about that. They’re like, oh,
0:03:42 you know, how did you pitch your co-founders? And I’m like, wait till you hear it.
0:03:43 Yeah.
0:03:44 We had breakfast.
0:03:48 Went to coffee and said, hey, what do you think? Let’s just quit Google and go do something.
0:03:53 Yeah, that was pretty much it. And I think that was the best way to do it because we were like,
0:03:54 all right, we’ll figure it out later.
0:03:58 Yeah. So have you figured it out? Like I looked at your website a little bit, you know,
0:04:02 Hux, H-U-X-E dot com for anyone listening. And because when I heard Notebook LM, and for anyone
0:04:06 who’s not familiar, you know, you can throw a bunch of texts or documents or whatever into,
0:04:10 you know, an L&M and it generates podcast episodes, basically, where you actually hear two hosts
0:04:14 talking to one another. And it’s an amazing tech demo. Like when I heard it, I was like,
0:04:18 this is crazy. But I was also like, is Google ever actually going to figure out how to make
0:04:22 this go mainstream? I don’t think so. And so when I look at your website, I’m like, okay,
0:04:25 maybe that’s what she’s trying to do. Like she’s trying to find the right angle to actually make
0:04:28 something like that go mainstream. What’s the inspiration for it?
0:04:35 So I think it’s close. I think we’re still, I think collectively as people, software builders,
0:04:39 people who are interested in products, of which I think there are like lots of these people now,
0:04:44 especially with AI. I think we are still collectively kind of like feeling at the edges
0:04:49 of what actually is sort of the killer use case for AI. And there’s certainly a lot of these,
0:04:54 right? Like coding is a really big one. ChatGPT as your friend is like a huge one.
0:05:00 But I think we’re still trying to find like more of these mainstream use cases. And I think there
0:05:05 are many, but it requires a lot more product work. And so for something like Hux, our actual sort of
0:05:10 initial nugget that we led with was this, it was just like a really simple idea, which was like,
0:05:15 how come you always have to go first, right? Like how come the AI doesn’t go first? And it’s such a
0:05:20 simple provocation, but it’s actually hard to sort of bring it to life. And so when we walked through
0:05:25 the different ways we might do it, audio was just one of the most straightforward,
0:05:30 most fun ways to do it, where I always tell people about this analogy of like growing up,
0:05:34 one of my favorite things to do is I would wake up and I would turn the radio on like first thing in
0:05:38 the morning, right? And I would just listen to the broadcast. Mostly I just cared if school was
0:05:42 canceled, but then if it wasn’t, it was fine. I would listen to like whatever else I was saying.
0:05:47 And I was like, what is the analog to life today? Yeah. Right. And like with AI,
0:05:51 you can do something interesting, which is like personalized radio. Yeah. A broadcast that’s
0:05:57 made just for you. And so then we just started riffing on it and it’s actually caught on and become
0:06:02 quite interesting. Yeah. That makes me think of that feature that ChatsPT rolled out. Was it Pulse,
0:06:06 I think? Pulse. Which is cool. I’ve been seeing it. It’s like, you know, because I talk to ChatsPT
0:06:12 like daily, like about my business. I’m building, you know, Lorde.com right now in all these crazy
0:06:16 meetings, trying to keep track of all of it and what’s going on and what I’m learning. And Pulse has been
0:06:20 like really useful recently, but I still haven’t gotten in the habit of checking it. And like,
0:06:25 I definitely could see that audio could be great for that, where literally like in the morning when
0:06:29 I do my morning walks, instead of listening to someone else’s podcast, you know, if I had something
0:06:33 that was like relevant to like what I’m actually currently thinking about or doing would be awesome.
0:06:38 Yeah. When we talked to our users, you know, we had this sort of insight in the beginning,
0:06:42 we put it out there and ultimately we were like, people will tell us, right? Like what’s good about
0:06:45 this or what’s not good about this. And we’ll see if there’s actual legs to it.
0:06:49 I think one of the most fascinating things is once we started talking to the people
0:06:55 that are users of Hux, every person would start their stories with like, oh yeah, I love to use
0:06:59 it when I’m driving. I love to use it when I’m brushing my teeth. Actually one time, I think I
0:07:03 talked to nine people in a row that mentioned they use it while they’re brushing their teeth.
0:07:07 And I was like, whoa, it’s like, am I being pranked? It’s like, where did all these people come
0:07:13 from? Why did they tell me they were brushing their teeth? But it really sort of illuminated to me that
0:07:17 there is something interesting today, right? When you’re building products, you can start from a
0:07:20 technology perspective and say, okay, whatever. This technology is cool. I’m going to go build
0:07:26 something around it. Or you can just build around what people are already doing or their habits and try
0:07:33 to hook into it. And so for us, that’s largely like the morning routine. Like people want things in the
0:07:39 morning that help them feel like, all right, this is helping me start my day. And it’s really
0:07:42 interesting you brought up Pulse because we were like, okay, right? What is good about Pulse? What
0:07:46 is good about Hux? Like what are the things these products have in common that we can ultimately
0:07:50 learn from? And it really is just kind of like an idea of an AI that knows you.
0:07:55 Right. So it seems like you guys are taking more like a human centric approach to AI design,
0:07:59 which I love because like a lot of the AI tools, they’re great. They work. It’s really mechanical.
0:08:04 Does it feel very human? Does it fit seamlessly into my life? So anything that just like seamlessly
0:08:08 fits into your life? I love that. I’m curious, like how do you get data into Hux? Like how do
0:08:14 you learn about somebody? That’s a big question I have. Yeah. So there’s a couple of ways that we do
0:08:19 it. During onboarding, you can connect your email or you could connect your calendar. You could do both.
0:08:23 You can connect multiple emails, which was a really big feature request for a while. I’ve actually found
0:08:28 this has been super helpful for me just listening to my work and personal email while I am brushing my
0:08:34 teeth. Super useful. And we also have an interest picker. Just super simple. Just like tell us what
0:08:40 you’re interested in or just type it out. And the collection of kind of like the onboarding signals
0:08:45 along with like the things that you do listen to and engage within the app is what populates it
0:08:51 going forward. And so one of the things that we actually have started doing for people is when you
0:08:57 listen to something on Hux, like in the app, when you open the app again, it generates a totally new
0:09:03 episode of that show. Right. So today, like I was listening to one that was like interesting history,
0:09:08 particularly with food. And it was like episode two, here’s another food. And I was like, oh,
0:09:12 this is pretty great. And so I think it’s the same feeling you kind of get when you’re on Wikipedia and
0:09:16 you’re like clicking around the links and you’re like, wow, I’m getting smarter. It’s like creative.
0:09:20 And it’s like for very little work. I feel like I was listening to something. I’d want some way to
0:09:24 signal to the AI what part of what I listened to was actually interesting to me. Is there any way to do
0:09:30 that yet? Or like, are you guys still figuring that out, I guess? Not yet. We don’t know the
0:09:34 best way to do this because a lot of our users are listening when they’re doing something. Can’t survey
0:09:41 them or whatever. Like, hey, stop brushing your teeth. Yeah. Just like tap it or something. And I think
0:09:47 there’s a little bit of signal we’re able to capture when people interrupt because the shows are fully
0:09:51 interactive. You can interrupt anytime. You can ask follow up questions. So we get a little bit of signal
0:09:55 there. But we think there’s probably better ways. There’s kind of like generically, we can identify
0:10:00 themes that you like, adjacent interests and things like that. And so we’ll probably start there first.
0:10:05 Yeah. I wonder if there’s any way to get data out of ChatsPT and put it into this.
0:10:06 I think that’s the holy grail.
0:10:11 But if you could figure out some way to get that data just right in, that would be phenomenal to figure
0:10:11 that out.
0:10:16 That is huge. I think there’s a lot of things like it, you know, between your browsing data,
0:10:24 your maps data, your Slack. We think about these as kind of very interesting data stores that some of
0:10:29 it, I think, is more directly related, right? So for example, with ChatsPT, like if I was asking about
0:10:34 some issue persistently, maybe like, I don’t know, I’m dealing with like this medical thing,
0:10:39 like that’s probably something that you can create content out of. But then one of the things we
0:10:43 actually talk about really frequently is the stuff you shouldn’t make content out of.
0:10:47 Either because it’s not interesting or it’s like not appropriate, the user doesn’t want to be
0:10:51 reminded of it. And so we think about that equally as much, right? Where I’m like…
0:10:53 You’re having some super personal conversation.
0:10:54 Yeah, yeah.
0:10:58 You’re suing someone, you get some family drama and it’s like, here’s a podcast about
0:11:01 your argument yesterday. You want to relive that? Like, oh, crap.
0:11:07 Exactly, exactly. And so I think that’s why these data stores are super interesting. And I’ll say on a final
0:11:12 note there, there is so much to like when you get a good picture of a person’s life where you can
0:11:17 connect the dots for them, right? Like maybe you don’t think the things you think about at work or
0:11:22 in your personal life or in your hobbies, right, are connected. But actually, when we’ve looked at,
0:11:26 for example, like my data, when we’ve started studying it with Hux, we were like, well, actually,
0:11:33 it turns out that like all of your interests kind of like can be hoovered up together as like history,
0:11:36 science, technology. And that’s kind of it.
0:11:37 Yeah, yeah.
0:11:41 And it’s really interesting where you’re like, oh, you know, these are kind of like the different
0:11:43 poles that make the person.
0:11:43 Right.
0:11:51 All right. You’ve heard how powerful Notebook LM is, but that’s just scratching the surface.
0:11:57 We created a complete guide showing you how to use Notebook LM and Gemini to do 10 hours of research
0:12:01 in 20 minutes. Whether you’re analyzing competitors, developing content strategies,
0:12:06 or learning a new market, this guide is gold. Scan the QR code or click the link in the description.
0:12:08 Now, let’s get back to the show.
0:12:15 Where do you see that going long term? And is this all about
0:12:20 somebody exploring their interests and learning more? Or is there something else that after you
0:12:24 have that data, you can help them do? Or like, how are you thinking about that if you are?
0:12:29 So the way that we’ve thought about this is that we don’t really know of anybody else that’s really
0:12:33 studying sort of like proactive AI. Right.
0:12:38 In the sense that like, it is actually really hard for like the machine to go first, right? Like you do
0:12:44 need a little bit of knowledge about the user. And then you have to sort of figure out how can I create
0:12:48 a title so interesting that they would click on it, which is like the first layer. And the second layer
0:12:54 is then getting them to listen to the whole thing. So we think about it as kind of like a funnel
0:13:01 of passive content is like a gateway to a totally different type of AI interaction that I don’t think
0:13:05 we’ve had much of an opportunity to learn about yet. Because everything we are learning about
0:13:12 with these AI tools is very much like dependent on the user’s intention. For example, like when I go to
0:13:17 cloud code, like I’m not randomly in cloud code, like I’m trying to get a job done. When I’m in chat
0:13:24 GPT, I’m asking this question. And it’s very much like I’m trying to pull value out of the tool versus
0:13:30 I’m here to be like delighted or I’m trying to get ready for the day, which is a much more broad goal.
0:13:35 And so I think that what we’ll probably learn is that users will probably want to take this one
0:13:39 of two ways. We think it’s either the content direction, which is fully like entertainment
0:13:45 focused, right? Kind of like TikTok, Netflix, whatever. Like I just want a personal kind of content
0:13:51 space. Or it will go in the direction of assistance, which is, hey, this is like next generation assistance,
0:13:56 which is passive content that is proactive is the first layer of it. And so I think we’re slowly
0:14:01 discovering it’s probably more likely the second one. Yeah, it makes sense. Especially if you know
0:14:05 like what I’m working on, what I care about, if you can start proactively suggesting things to me that I
0:14:10 could be doing, whether it’s learning something I need to learn or something I should be doing. And
0:14:15 then especially if you could help me in some way with that would be awesome. Yeah. And it’s interesting
0:14:21 too, because we talk a lot about like stuff that AI can do and we talk a lot about automation, but I think
0:14:28 that in real life, what most people find helpful is not really AI doing stuff for you yet. Right. It’s
0:14:34 actually interesting. We see a lot more of like summarization, catching up, explaining something
0:14:39 to me like we’re still there. And I think we still have a lot of opportunity to get that right. And like,
0:14:45 honestly, just like earn people’s trust. Because I think if you can get these tasks, you know, to a place
0:14:49 where it’s like, everybody is like doing it. And it’s like very normal to listen to like your AI
0:14:55 assistant, like summarize your emails for you. It becomes a lot easier for the next step, which is
0:15:00 like, okay, respond to this guy. Yeah. Right. Or pay that bill. Yeah. Trust is gonna be so important,
0:15:05 right? Because like, there’s a fine line there, right? Like, are you manipulating me? Like this thing
0:15:09 that’s helping run my life? Is it helping me? Or are you like manipulating me to extract more value out of
0:15:14 me? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I think like helpfulness here is like really interesting. Because for
0:15:20 example, whenever you make a suggestion to a user, I think it’s interesting to think about whether or
0:15:25 not that user would have done that anyway, if you hadn’t made the suggestion. And so that’s the type
0:15:29 of thing that we think about, which is like, hey, before we step in that territory of making suggestions,
0:15:33 let’s just help with like these really basic kind of like passive content tasks.
0:15:37 Where are you guys at with Hux right now? Like, is it private? Is it launched? And do you have like a
0:15:42 demo or anything you could share? Oh, yeah. I mean, right now, anybody can download the app. It’s available
0:15:49 on Android and iOS. You can go to hux.com. We do tell people it’s super early. And every version of
0:15:53 the app that we launch actually changes the app. I’ll show you a quick demo on my phone.
0:16:01 my phone yes um here we go we just launched a new version we shipped the shows and episodes that i
0:16:06 was telling you about earlier but you can see here at the top you have it’s called the daily brief
0:16:11 and when you play the daily brief it’ll just go through your emails your calendar and it goes
0:16:16 through all the topics that you’re interested in but then it also shows you you can see here there’s
0:16:21 like a feed of interesting shows that it thinks like you’ll be interested in so in this case it’s
0:16:25 actually it’s a funny title but it’s so niche and it’s something that i actually really care about
0:16:30 which is basically what’s the effect of ultra processed foods on your body it’s just like one
0:16:35 of those things where you’re like i don’t know if i would have like sought this out but it actually is
0:16:41 like a a digest of like the report on how ultra processed foods affects your body and i was like
0:16:45 wow this is like super interesting and it primarily knows that from your emails or it knows that from
0:16:49 like uh things you’ve told it or things you’ve listened to before so at this point it’s things
0:16:54 i’ve listened to before things like my news for example right like that’s very much informed by
0:16:59 like my emails and it knows like i’m a startup founder it knows i’m into ai but you can see that
0:17:03 pretty much all of this is like ai news yeah right that i could listen to and you can kind of see
0:17:09 there’s like more here and then every single one of these has like a show associated with it i wonder
0:17:15 if this is one of those companies where it could be smart to like highly target a specific first ideal
0:17:18 user or something right like it feels like this is one of those startups where it’s almost like you
0:17:23 know superhuman where they targeted vcs yeah and it helped them raise tons of money you know i can
0:17:28 imagine this being super useful for vcs because like they email a lot and then you can easily identify
0:17:35 what companies they’re looking to fund or interested in or categories stages and you could like give them
0:17:40 a podcast of like who raised money for these kind of companies this last week that way they know to ping
0:17:45 those people to at least initiate a conversation in a relationship right which is what all the best vcs do
0:17:49 is like monitor that and then try to reach out to people yeah that could be interesting if you could
0:17:54 like target someone like make it where they all use it and and then you expand to other kinds of people
0:18:00 that start with like just an idea yeah i think that’s right and i think that we actually at this current
0:18:06 stage we’re starting to see these cohorts emerge organically too which is you know what kind of person
0:18:11 wants to listen to a personalized radio show in the morning right right and it is it is like a specific
0:18:16 sort of people but i think that it’s right i think they are largely early adopters but i think that they
0:18:22 reflect like a broader user base for sure so uh you know let’s say uh hux is super successful you know
0:18:28 you’ve nailed personalized ai and you’re one of the leaders of personalized ai like where do you see the
0:18:31 future of the product you know i know there’s a lot of different ways it could go but like you know 10 years
0:18:37 from now hux is huge it’s helping a lot of people i mean 10 is kind of far yeah of course yeah a month
0:18:43 is far right now right like a month is far right now i mean honestly like i think a lot uh i actually go
0:18:48 back to a lot of like sci-fi right i mean i i love a lot of like science fiction like star trek
0:18:55 read a lot of books watch like every sci-fi movie right and i think about how so much of what we’ve
0:19:00 watched in these movies like that are actually like really positive sort of technological experiences
0:19:06 are still not here right today right even though we are kind of talking to our phones we’re kind of
0:19:11 talking to our computers ai is like the farthest we’ve ever gotten in terms of like this whole like
0:19:19 talking and audio thing it still is not quite there yeah and so if this goes well what i kind of imagine
0:19:25 is like a broader shift in how we use our devices right because today we are largely like on our screens
0:19:31 yeah and tapping on our keyboards and that’s how it’s been forever like it just hasn’t really changed
0:19:39 but i i imagine that what will actually be monumental and very very interesting is when we actually make
0:19:44 the shift from typing away at our computers to actually talking and listening yeah and that will
0:19:49 just be a very very different kind of like human computer interaction yeah i’m hoping that’s where things go
0:19:53 and then we end up more in the physical world like i don’t you know yeah people are like are we going
0:19:57 into the matrix you know and i’m like i don’t you know some people might but hopefully not everyone
0:20:02 like hopefully we you know actually ai enables us to actually go out and live our lives and helps me
0:20:06 solve a lot of the tedious work i don’t really want to deal with and helps me learn things i want to learn
0:20:11 meet new people do new things yeah that’s what i’m hoping for i actually largely agree and i think we
0:20:19 are correctly in that timeline right where it’s the more that i think about it that i sort of observed
0:20:25 for myself i really like it when i’m in the real world i like talking to people i like taking a walk
0:20:31 i like hiking i like driving i like you know playing music and doing my chores in the kitchen like this is
0:20:39 sort of what i think gives a lot of people joy but we are still you know largely living our lives on
0:20:43 screens for one reason or another so i think technology that sort of helps us embrace both
0:20:47 which is like look maybe the feeling is that i can’t walk away from this work or i want to be
0:20:53 productive something that sort of satisfies both of those i think is an interesting thing to pursue
0:21:00 and i feel like audio actually is one of the right solutions for that yeah it makes sense where do you
0:21:05 think ai is at right now today like you know there’s a lot of people who think that we’re in some kind
0:21:09 of bubble right now some people say progress is stalled which i haven’t seen but what is your
0:21:14 take on like ai overall right now and like outside of talks i mean i think it’s interesting because i
0:21:22 feel like if you based it off of what the people are saying on x right or on twitter you would think
0:21:27 that like we’re on this like sort of constant like roller coaster of like we’re on top of the world
0:21:34 or the cycle is ending no we’re on top of the world nvidia and it crashed again and it crashed again
0:21:39 but i think that in real life for most people it’s probably like a little more stable than that
0:21:45 to the extent that the products that you’re using out there as an everyday person is still just chat gpt
0:21:51 you know and i think about that a lot because when i think about the the emergence of things like
0:21:59 instagram right facebook google these were the apps that started to take up space on my phone and so
0:22:04 when i think about the cohort of ai apps that are going to take up space on somebody’s phone
0:22:09 to me it’s like there’s just one it’s just still chat gpt so what’s number two what’s number three
0:22:14 what’s number four right what does it do for the everyday person and so the utility has to be
0:22:22 so generalized that you can think about every kind of person consuming it and so yeah to me i think
0:22:27 we’re still very very early i do think we’re probably in some kind of bubble but hopefully
0:22:32 it’s the kind of bubble that just leads a lot of like infrastructure building that helps support you
0:22:37 know apps number two and three and four and so on yeah makes sense i think people hear a bubble they
0:22:41 think like there’s no substance behind it like there’s definitely substance behind everything in ai
0:22:46 so if people get carried away and like there’s some over investment that’s just part of the process in my
0:22:53 opinion yeah yeah i mean it’s just exuberance right i think yeah rightfully so many of us are excited
0:22:59 and i think just with anything that’s new like there’s just a lot of fumbling there’s a lot of
0:23:06 fumbling around as much as like we want to sound confident and say we know where we’re going i think the
0:23:12 truth about you know exploration is that we’re gonna make mistakes some of us are gonna get lost but
0:23:16 it’s gonna be okay in the long run right you’re talking about like how you know everyone just uses
0:23:21 chat bt which is totally true like i i’ve tried to be a person like on x before well like oh i’m trying
0:23:26 these new things and like you know the reality is i right now i literally use chat bt and the main way
0:23:32 i use ai and then for coding i primarily use factory i also have to use cloud code both great and there
0:23:39 that’s mainly it occasionally perplexity uh and that’s mainly it uh i do worry a little bit about
0:23:44 that like especially now that chats bt’s memory is so good you know you know google just had their their
0:23:50 new gemini 3 pro come out and it’s awesome it’s really good it doesn’t have my memory and so i just
0:23:55 haven’t used it besides like testing it you know after it was shared with me yeah i’m using the model
0:24:00 in factory now for coding like i had to update my website which i thought was just was mind-blowing to me
0:24:05 because usually ai has been so horrible at design i asked it hey uh what do you think about my website
0:24:10 are there any ways you could improve it and here are three brands i like you know well for me like
0:24:14 palantir and some others right like here’s yeah yeah and like and it just did like a facelift on my
0:24:21 website i’m like what yeah i think it’s pretty good design yeah yeah yeah but it’s crazy yeah but i’m
0:24:26 still not using gemini as my main ai app so i do wonder like how you know is everything going to be
0:24:29 chat bt hopefully there’s going to be things like hux and all these other apps and
0:24:35 chat bt doesn’t just eat everything you know well yeah i mean i i think it’s also because like there’s
0:24:40 just such a limited amount of time in my day right and even though all of these products have come out
0:24:47 it’s not like my days changed and so i think that the apps still have to map really closely to the thing
0:24:52 that i am doing or the thing that i am trying to do and i’m sure like some of these things will change
0:25:00 but until that time until the solution sort of squarely slots into something that majorly takes
0:25:05 up my life for my day like it’s probably just not going to happen yesterday actually the team and i
0:25:09 were talking about how good gemini 3 is we’re like wow this is like pretty impressive it’s like really
0:25:15 cool we played around with it and then we were like how many of us are going to use gemini like gemini
0:25:21 the app and we had a funny little debate where we were like why don’t we like does anybody know
0:25:27 and uh jason my uh my co-founder who’s a designer he was like because the background isn’t black and
0:25:32 i was like what and we all opened it and we had this like funny realization that it’s like an off
0:25:36 blue black background yeah i was like that’s so interesting is that it oh i noticed that immediately
0:25:41 well did you okay i yeah one of the things i tell people all the time is like i’m like worthless
0:25:48 you know at this i’m somebody who’s like kind of okay at design kind of okay at coding hopefully good
0:25:52 at business but you know i like so i have experience in a bunch of fields but uh yeah the first time i
0:25:55 looked at it i was like i should tell logan like this i don’t know you need to change it there is
0:25:59 something to it but i think we were we were saying like we’re not going to switch yeah but i do wonder
0:26:04 also if that’s a perception thing i do wonder if it’s because chat bt was the first one that people
0:26:10 used so it’s anchored in people’s mind that that’s what ai looks like yeah so anything that’s not that
0:26:16 is not standard i think that’s true i think there’s a lot to it i do think that even though
0:26:21 chat gpt is largely the same since it launched right it’s just like a text box that i press enter on
0:26:29 hasn’t changed very much it has um a very very high level of polish on the app yeah right it’s like
0:26:36 it never bungles when i press enter right the answer always renders correctly and so i i think
0:26:41 that there is a certain level of polish on the app that i’m just like i don’t really want to try another
0:26:46 thing because it’s not going to be this yeah totally like even like uh you know grok is getting pretty
0:26:51 good yeah and i’ve tried the app though i’m like just like in a daily usage the ui as well as the
0:26:57 memory features lacking it’s just like no i’m just chat gpt is my default still i have a an opinion
0:27:02 that i feel like is very unscientific but i swear that it’s also the personalities of the models
0:27:10 because i use chat gpt for my personal mobile use case but claude is kind of like my work friend
0:27:15 interesting right and it’s like you know i feel like we would normally never say these things about
0:27:20 the ai apps but i do really feel like i appreciate the way claude answers my questions and how else
0:27:25 would you describe it it’s friendly it’s like a personality nice guy it’s like a thing in the name
0:27:31 right it’s like a nice co-worker yeah so i appreciate it yeah that is interesting yeah maybe the future
0:27:34 that’s what it is like gemini needs like a personality what is gemini it’s almost like it’s
0:27:37 like it’s almost implies two personalities two with the name right it’s like maybe they need like a
0:27:42 different brand too because yeah because claude i can imagine like oh that’s like a friendly dude
0:27:47 or something like you know not intimidating guy just like easy to talk to person you know i genuinely
0:27:53 like i feel like if you’re like all right what does each of these you know apps look like as like a person
0:27:57 i think like it wouldn’t be hard i feel like it’s a good litmus test it wouldn’t be hard for people
0:28:02 to describe them you know like when you just said that like i didn’t even realize it but i’m like oh
0:28:08 yeah claude for sure has a beanie wears glasses like yeah yeah yeah yeah you know so it’s not hard
0:28:12 and i think that that definitely plays into it yeah i’ve actually kind of slight just my personal life
0:28:16 i’ve kind of slightly made fun of claude for that reason in the past but i do still like it in like
0:28:20 certain contexts like you just said like just like casual conversations about things yeah yeah it’s
0:28:27 like a great friend there exactly yeah cool uh one thing i like to ask a lot of guests i have a 12 year
0:28:32 old son and i always think about what should i be teaching him right now what would you be teaching
0:28:36 a child right now to like help them because it feels like things are changing so fast and it’s really
0:28:41 hard to know what to teach a child help them be more successful in the future yeah because like maybe
0:28:46 coding for logic but are they actually gonna be coding you know and yeah so maybe they need more like
0:28:52 interpersonal skills to talk to people and do yeah yeah business deals and like i don’t know what are
0:28:57 your thoughts on that oh my gosh this is a great question i just tweeted about this like last week
0:29:02 oh and it was because alexander wang was on tbpn right and he had said something like here’s the
0:29:09 advice i would give every 13 year old and he said learn vibe coding and i remember i was watching it and i
0:29:15 was like huh i don’t know i don’t know if i agree with it i probably don’t and i had tweeted about it
0:29:19 and i would say like 90 of the people who reacted to my tweet were like pretty supportive they were like
0:29:23 oh i agree with you and i’ll tell you my answer in like a second but then like 10 of people were like
0:29:29 you’re gonna be poor like the advice you’re giving to people is going to land them into you know poverty
0:29:36 and what i had said was and i still believe this and i do also have a 14 year old the thing that i would
0:29:44 encourage like every person in that age is to sort of study and absorb the things that i think make us
0:29:50 uniquely human and i had to really think about this about like hey what is it right especially
0:29:55 as we start to see these models become better and better at coding and even you know think about
0:30:00 the example we just gave about like gemini 3 making suggestions tasteful ones to your landing page
0:30:06 right like that you you kind of imagine is like wow that was tasteful right that could have been
0:30:11 uniquely human except now it’s doing it and so the thing that i had said was like go watch movies
0:30:18 play sports learn musical instruments yeah go look at art and see if you feel anything
0:30:22 read my son too i was like as long as you do it in moderation like it’s actually good to like play
0:30:27 games and watch movies as long as you’re not doing it all the time exclusively it’s good just like
0:30:31 culturally take this in and there’s also little lessons in a lot of kind of movies there’s little
0:30:36 lessons well i think it’s a good kind of foil right because it sort of challenges you to feel
0:30:40 one way or another and i think the reason why i would encourage this is like you also learn a lot
0:30:45 about yourself right like for example i hate the little mermaid but i don’t think i could have
0:30:49 learned it if i didn’t watch it and there’s a kind of like a weird reason why i don’t like it but i love
0:30:53 like all these other movies right that i watched when i was a kid that’s one of my favorites when i was a
0:31:03 like i was like yo how did you leave your family for some dude like you were looking at from like
0:31:08 down here like that makes no sense i was in love with ariel and i never understood why i was in love
0:31:13 with her i was like this is weird you know but whatever yeah so that’s what i’m saying imagine if
0:31:18 kids didn’t watch little mermaid they couldn’t have this fight right like 10 years from now so i think
0:31:23 like doing the things that make you uniquely like a person and gives you these like opportunities to
0:31:27 like connect with other people like if all we did was like vibe code when we were kids like what are
0:31:31 we going to talk about like how was your vibe coding when you were 13 right it’s just very uh one
0:31:36 dimensional and i understand that like you know a lot of people in the comments were like that’s like
0:31:41 one of the ways to sort of elevate your status in society and make money is like get a job and so i
0:31:47 definitely understand that but i think that’s like more than anything what will set you apart is like
0:31:51 who you are as a person so just like invest in that yeah totally i’m in japan right now probably
0:31:55 moving back to california but i’ve been out here for about three years and you know that’s one thing
0:32:00 about the schooling and stuff here is like people just push their kids to constantly be studying
0:32:06 and it’s like how do you have time to find out who you are yes all right that’s like really important
0:32:12 versus just like rote memorization of things that ai can do yeah my son obviously wants to like
0:32:16 spend more time like doing new things you know i’ve tried vibe coding stuff with him just to like so
0:32:20 he was aware of it existing so like we’ve tried replit we’ve tried uh factory and some other
0:32:26 stuff and and he thought it was so cool to see that but you know now he’s like wanting to make uh
0:32:31 you know like a roblox game and things like this exactly yeah and i was like okay but first like you
0:32:35 know and i’m not great at coding but i know enough that i can teach him some basics and so i’m like
0:32:39 okay first i think they use like lua for scripting or something so like let’s look the basics of lua and
0:32:44 like look up you know how do you make a basic script and then later if you use you know some kind of tool to
0:32:49 help you you know sure that’s cool but like learn the basics you know yeah yeah yeah no for sure ai for
0:32:54 everything for sure and i actually think you know this is i think the difference between like studying
0:33:01 just like coding or vibe coding versus like hey take the time to understand like computer science right
0:33:06 how do these things work where did they come from how should i think about building applications because
0:33:13 even today like you know we talk about this all the time ai coding is like a really great capability of
0:33:17 these models but it still requires like a person to put these things together yeah particularly for
0:33:23 complicated things and the real boost here is that we can build more and more complicated things that do
0:33:29 more sophisticated tasks you know but it’s like humans and ai together yeah i think even if kids end up
0:33:34 using ai for everything for coding in the future it’s really good for them to have some understanding of
0:33:37 like what’s actually going on under the hood even if they don’t understand all of it but
0:33:41 my son actually started with like explaining to him cpus and ram and things like this
0:33:45 and also showing him the command line too and he was like what that’s like you could actually move
0:33:49 around the folders and you can change stuff and it’s amazing it’s all just like a graphical interface
0:33:53 on top of that kind of and it’s like you know he was he was mind blown to like learn that you know
0:33:58 yeah yeah and so that’s that’s probably what i would tell every 13 year old is like go do things that are
0:34:07 fun follow your curiosity and you know take cs50 at the end at the end yeah yeah yeah one last uh fun
0:34:12 question i like to ask people so you know so you’re in san francisco you get into a time machine maybe it’s
0:34:16 like a bill and ted kind of time machine like a you know phone booth or something you get in you get
0:34:21 out you’re in san francisco it’s 2050 like what does it look like it’s like are things dramatically
0:34:27 different is all waymos and robots or is it you know the skyline looks different or is it all mostly
0:34:32 the same oh i love this question i just watched the matrix where i was like oh i hope it’s not that you
0:34:37 know i don’t know if you know actually the crazy story but like i actually partnered with the producer
0:34:42 of the matrix that’s how laura got started at barry osborne we were business partners for a year and a
0:34:46 half and we tried to do a crazy studio together didn’t work out covid and other things and movies
0:34:51 are very hard but yeah anyways i have a crazy connection to the matrix that’s crazy well it’s
0:34:55 one of my favorite movies i haven’t seen it in a while so i was re-watching it and i was like you know
0:35:00 easily right it could be this right just thinking about it and like right kind of thinking that far ahead
0:35:04 but then i thought about one of my other favorite movies which is big hero six and i don’t know if
0:35:11 you’ve seen it yes but big hero six is so cool because it’s like it’s easy you have young people
0:35:15 able to like go to schools that are dedicated to building cool technology that they’re interested
0:35:21 in you build machines that are just like super helpful and you know you just watch big hero six
0:35:27 and you feel great and i kind of imagine not that literally but just like how it feels right which
0:35:32 is like this is how i think it’s supposed to feel which is it’s exciting it’s optimistic yeah it’s a
0:35:36 great movie yeah everybody for the most part is like really helpful and collaborative towards each
0:35:40 other and you can tell like the fictional city they live in is called san francisco i think yeah
0:35:44 that’s why i’ve actually shown a bunch because like he grew up in san francisco but then he’s
0:35:49 been back and forth to japan yeah most of his life so like he loves it it’s like it’s a mixture of his
0:35:54 two worlds you know and it’s it’s a great movie yeah yeah and i think that to me if i could be in a
0:35:59 time machine and that’s what i stepped out of i’d be perfectly happy yeah totally me too well riza this
0:36:04 has been a great conversation i appreciate you coming on where should people find you online and uh and
0:36:09 also if you want to i mean obviously they should go to uh hux you know h-u-x-e.com and check it out
0:36:13 but uh where can they find you online and if there’s anything else you want to tell the audience as well
0:36:18 for you off here yeah i mean i would love it if folks want to try hux.com we also have a discord
0:36:24 server it’s got i think 6 000 people in it now but it’s pretty active and people are so helpful like i love
0:36:31 i always tell the people that we have five folks on our team and an extended crew of 6 000 more yeah that’s
0:36:36 amazing that’s a great community it’s really great it’s super cool yeah and on x where i primarily
0:36:42 say random things it’s riza martin yeah cool if you want my advice for 13 year olds that’s where you can
0:36:46 find it yeah awesome well riza it’s been awesome and thank you so much for coming on nathan thank you
0:36:48 so much thanks for having me yeah
Get the free NotebookLM guide: https://clickhubspot.com/wph
Episode 87: Can AI know you well enough to create audio content tailored to your interests—without you ever prompting it? Nathan Lands (https://x.com/NathanLands) is joined by Raiza Martin (https://x.com/raizamrtn), one of the creators behind Google’s NotebookLM and now co-founder of Huxe, a new startup carving the path toward truly personal AI.
Raiza shares her unconventional journey from leading innovation at Google to building Huxe, an app that generates personalized audio (think “AI radio made just for you”) driven by your daily habits and interests—without you having to initiate the conversation. The episode dives into what it means to design AI for real human needs, the balancing act of privacy and helpfulness, and the vision for a future where your AI assistant proactively enhances your everyday life. They also discuss where AI products are succeeding, how creating trust is an overlooked challenge, and why the next breakthrough will be more about fitting seamlessly into our routines than about being “smarter.”
Check out The Next Wave YouTube Channel if you want to see Matt and Nathan on screen: https://lnk.to/thenextwavepd
—
Show Notes:
-
(00:00) From NotebookLM to Huxe
-
(04:29) Finding AI’s Killer Use Case
-
(06:33) Users’ Unique Huxe Usage Insights
-
(12:24) Proactive AI: A New Approach
-
(16:02) Daily Brief Insights
-
(17:21) VCs Monitoring Funding Opportunities
-
(21:33) ChatGPT’s Role in Everyday AI
-
(24:43) App Adoption and Design Insights
-
(29:20) Uniquely Human Skills Matter
-
(31:11) Modern Childhood and Connection
-
(33:27) Understanding Tech Basics for Kids
—
Mentions:
-
Raiza Martin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/whatsaraiza
-
Huxe: https://www.huxe.com/
-
NotebookLM: https://notebooklm.google/
-
ChatGPT Pulse: https://openai.com/index/introducing-chatgpt-pulse/
-
Factory: https://factory.ai/
Get the guide to build your own Custom GPT: https://clickhubspot.com/tnw
—
Check Out Matt’s Stuff:
• Future Tools – https://futuretools.beehiiv.com/
• Blog – https://www.mattwolfe.com/
• YouTube- https://www.youtube.com/@mreflow
—
Check Out Nathan’s Stuff:
-
Newsletter: https://news.lore.com/
-
Blog – https://lore.com/
The Next Wave is a HubSpot Original Podcast // Brought to you by Hubspot Media // Production by Darren Clarke // Editing by Ezra Bakker Trupiano
Leave a Reply
You must be logged in to post a comment.