Tom Bilyeu: The Billion-Dollar Entrepreneur Mindset That Turns Failures into Success | E327

0:00:03 – Meaning and purpose is ultimately all that matters.
0:00:04 If you have all the money in the world,
0:00:06 but you don’t believe in what you’re doing,
0:00:08 then it will be a very empty pursuit.
0:00:11 Progress is a foundational pillar to human happiness.
0:00:14 The average human is designed to get better.
0:00:15 So if you put time and attention
0:00:17 into getting good at something,
0:00:19 you will actually get good at that thing.
0:00:22 – How do we push through our emotions to achieve our goals?
0:00:23 – I think people should…
0:00:26 Don’t let anybody tell you something is impossible
0:00:29 unless it legitimately violates the laws of physics.
0:00:31 You’ve built a billion dollar companies
0:00:32 across different industries,
0:00:36 and right now money is really not a concern for you.
0:00:37 – Money only monetizes once.
0:00:38 You can only spend it one time,
0:00:41 but knowledge and connections monetize forever.
0:00:42 As long as you’re here,
0:00:44 then you can’t have everything you want.
0:00:51 (gentle music)
0:00:54 (gentle music)
0:01:02 Yap gang, hold onto your screens
0:01:05 and get ready for an inspiring and insightful episode
0:01:07 as we welcome Tom Billu,
0:01:09 the co-founder of Quest Nutrition
0:01:11 and the visionary behind Impact Theory.
0:01:13 Tom’s not just a successful entrepreneur.
0:01:16 He’s a master at transforming challenges into opportunities.
0:01:17 And in this episode,
0:01:20 he’ll share his journey from building a billion dollar business
0:01:24 to pivoting into the world of media and personal empowerment.
0:01:25 He’ll also share his thoughts on how AI
0:01:27 could transform the creator economy.
0:01:29 Tom is somebody that I’ve looked up to
0:01:30 for such a long time.
0:01:33 I’m so excited to have this conversation.
0:01:35 He’s been such an inspiration to me.
0:01:39 Impact Theory is a legendary platform.
0:01:42 And honestly, like he’s just inspired so much of my journey.
0:01:43 I can’t wait for this conversation.
0:01:45 So without further delay,
0:01:48 here’s my discussion with Tom Billu.
0:01:51 Tom, welcome to Young and Profiting Podcast.
0:01:52 – Thanks for having me.
0:01:55 – I’m so excited for this conversation.
0:01:56 You are somebody that I look up to
0:01:59 both as a podcaster and an entrepreneur.
0:02:01 You’ve built a multi-million dollar
0:02:04 and billion dollar companies across different industries.
0:02:08 And right now money is really not a concern for you.
0:02:10 And so I’m curious to understand
0:02:12 when you think about starting a new project
0:02:15 and a new company, which are always starting new things,
0:02:18 what are the considerations that you have?
0:02:22 – Impact, meaning and purpose is ultimately all that matters.
0:02:23 If you have all the money in the world,
0:02:25 but you don’t feel engaged,
0:02:27 you don’t believe in what you’re doing,
0:02:29 then it will be a very empty pursuit.
0:02:32 And I thankfully learned that lesson when I was quite young.
0:02:36 So yeah, when I had all the financial success at Quest,
0:02:38 I knew that whatever I do next
0:02:40 has to be grounded in meaning and purpose
0:02:41 just like Quest was.
0:02:43 So my last day at Quest was Monday
0:02:46 and my first day at Impact Theory was Tuesday
0:02:48 and just got right back to it.
0:02:50 ‘Cause that’s ultimately what feeds me
0:02:51 is that sense of, okay,
0:02:53 I’m doing something with my time that matters.
0:02:55 Obviously I’m very thoughtful to make sure
0:02:56 that I enjoy what I’m doing,
0:02:58 even when I’m failing that it’s a thing
0:03:01 that I not only care about the potential outcomes,
0:03:03 but that I enjoy the process.
0:03:06 So you got to fill your time somehow
0:03:08 and I’m not a retired to the beach kind of guy.
0:03:11 So Impact is to say it in a word.
0:03:13 – Yeah, and something that I love for you
0:03:16 is that you’ve got so many different like philosophies
0:03:18 and ways that you live your life.
0:03:19 And one of the things that you’ve said
0:03:22 is that the most crucial aspect of life
0:03:26 is what you think about yourself when you’re not alone.
0:03:28 – Now what you think about yourself when you’re by yourself.
0:03:30 So there’s no one there to hype you up.
0:03:31 No one there to tear you down.
0:03:34 What do you think about you?
0:03:36 And it’s normally in that quiet space
0:03:38 that people start beating themselves up
0:03:41 and they don’t feel they’re living up to their own ideals.
0:03:42 That matters.
0:03:45 I think ultimately we just were hardwired for it.
0:03:47 And so how do you feel self-respect
0:03:50 and having self-respect for yourself
0:03:52 is impacted by the work that we do
0:03:54 and the jobs that we have?
0:03:56 – Well, so we are a hungry species.
0:03:58 We are designed to pursue.
0:04:01 We’re designed to grow, to keep getting after things.
0:04:04 When you think about it from an evolutionary perspective,
0:04:07 you would be hardwired to do the things
0:04:09 that are gonna keep you alive long enough
0:04:10 to have kids that have kids.
0:04:13 And so hard work contributing to the group,
0:04:16 facing difficult tasks, making progress.
0:04:18 Like all of those things are hardwired.
0:04:22 So the things that you do either make good
0:04:23 on those evolutionary algorithms
0:04:26 that you have running in your brain that say like,
0:04:27 hey, you’ve just been lazy.
0:04:28 I don’t feel good about that.
0:04:30 Or whoa, like you really did something
0:04:32 and it helped a lot of people.
0:04:33 You’re gonna feel great about that.
0:04:38 So in that sense, what you do becomes a critical component.
0:04:40 So the way I like to explain it is
0:04:42 we are both the shout and the echo.
0:04:45 So we’re the things that we do, that’s the shout.
0:04:48 And then we’re what the world tells us they feel
0:04:49 about the thing that we did.
0:04:51 And anybody that thinks that they can escape,
0:04:55 that sense of like that feedback impacts me in some way
0:04:56 is delusional.
0:04:57 You are going to be impacted.
0:04:58 Now you wanna keep it in balance.
0:04:59 You don’t wanna let that get out of hand
0:05:02 where you only live for the validation of others.
0:05:03 But we are a social animal.
0:05:08 And so you will be impacted by what other people think.
0:05:10 – And so something that I know about your journey
0:05:12 is that at certain points in your journey,
0:05:17 you worked really hard, like 120 hours a week at some point.
0:05:19 And you didn’t really have so much work-life balance.
0:05:23 So how has your mindset changed regarding the way
0:05:26 that you prioritize work and life?
0:05:29 – To be honest, it hasn’t changed in a very long time.
0:05:31 And so when I was working the 120 hours a week,
0:05:33 which was a couple of years ago,
0:05:36 I knew that I was making a short-term error
0:05:38 for a long-term gain.
0:05:40 And it really did though get to the point
0:05:42 where I was beginning to damage my marriage.
0:05:44 And that’s always my barometer of, okay,
0:05:46 if my marriage is really the most important thing
0:05:48 in my life, simply because it is yielded,
0:05:50 the most return on my investment,
0:05:51 then I needed to make a change.
0:05:53 And so at the height of all that,
0:05:55 I pulled my wife aside and said,
0:05:57 “Look, I will find my way back to you.”
0:05:59 And it just became about putting business processes
0:06:01 in place that I could hand things off
0:06:02 that I wasn’t trying to do everything myself.
0:06:04 And so it’s like, look, at the same time,
0:06:06 it was, it’s the period in my life
0:06:09 that I’m probably the most proud because it,
0:06:11 if the world was ever going to break me,
0:06:13 that was going to be the moment.
0:06:15 And so it didn’t, and I kept pushing forward
0:06:17 and I got the business to where it needed to be.
0:06:21 And I got back into the rhythm of prioritizing my marriage.
0:06:24 And so look, it was not a period without its consequences.
0:06:27 But if you’re very cognizant of that,
0:06:29 if you engage in my case with both the business
0:06:33 and the marriage to communicate, okay, business,
0:06:34 this is what we’re gonna have to do.
0:06:35 We’re gonna have to get people in
0:06:37 that replace these different elements.
0:06:38 We’re gonna have to create new processes
0:06:40 so that this isn’t so manual.
0:06:42 And then dear wife,
0:06:44 we’re gonna need to start setting aside some time.
0:06:46 I need a couple more months
0:06:48 to like really put these processes in place.
0:06:50 But if you can just bear with me until this time,
0:06:52 I won’t be working these stupid hours anymore.
0:06:55 And so because I was able to make a promise,
0:06:57 make good on that promise,
0:06:59 and then she could see the results
0:07:00 that I was yielding in the business.
0:07:02 So it’s like through communication,
0:07:03 all things are possible.
0:07:06 So I don’t believe in balance.
0:07:09 The cheesiest way to say it is I believe in harmony.
0:07:13 The more accurate way to say it is goals make demands.
0:07:16 And as long as you’re executing in priority order,
0:07:18 then you can have everything you want,
0:07:23 but you can be very efficient in what you get done
0:07:25 by just saying, okay, this is the most important thing
0:07:26 that I can do based on my goals
0:07:27 and where I wanna end up.
0:07:29 This is the second most important,
0:07:31 so on and so forth down the list.
0:07:34 And if it’s integrated with a marriage and friendship
0:07:36 and things like that, you’ll be fine.
0:07:38 But most people, and this is really like,
0:07:40 hey, dear everybody listening,
0:07:42 if you wanna know one problem I see over and over and over
0:07:45 is people allow themselves to get overwhelmed.
0:07:50 There is not an amount of things barring a hot war
0:07:51 where people are literally getting shot
0:07:52 and dying around you.
0:07:56 There’s nothing that should be able to overwhelm you.
0:07:59 And so overwhelm is about an expectation
0:08:00 that you are putting on yourself
0:08:02 that you can carry an infinite load
0:08:06 that triggers a psychological revving up
0:08:08 of you trying to track every variable.
0:08:12 And the reality is that I don’t ever get overwhelmed
0:08:14 even when I was working 120 hours a week
0:08:16 and it was a massive physical toll.
0:08:18 There was never the additional layer
0:08:21 of I’m mentally breaking because I just,
0:08:22 it’s all about priorities.
0:08:25 I have them in priority order, I draw a dotted line
0:08:26 and say the things below the dotted line
0:08:29 just are not going to be addressed right now.
0:08:31 And I’m able to just shut that door.
0:08:33 And what I find is people are not able to shut the door
0:08:36 on the things that exceed the number of hours
0:08:37 that they’re willing to work.
0:08:39 And so they’re trying to track everything,
0:08:42 even the things that are what I call dormant priorities.
0:08:43 And that’s the thing that drives them crazy.
0:08:46 And you literally just have to do what’s known
0:08:47 in behavioral cognitive therapy
0:08:50 as cognitive behavioral therapy, excuse me,
0:08:52 as a pattern interrupt.
0:08:55 And so like anybody, I get that initial impulse of like,
0:08:58 oh my God, like I can feel my brain speeding up.
0:09:00 And that’s when I say to myself, I don’t do overwhelm.
0:09:03 And then I do diaphragm breathing
0:09:06 and I slow down ironically and then slowing down
0:09:09 rather than trying to speed up to do everything.
0:09:10 It just dissipates.
0:09:13 And I thought this would be something
0:09:15 I could just tell people about, they would adopt it
0:09:16 and it would be great.
0:09:18 And I see people get overwhelmed all the time.
0:09:21 – I feel like so many entrepreneurs get overwhelmed
0:09:22 and it’s so true what you’re saying,
0:09:27 overwhelm is a feeling that is maybe not necessarily real.
0:09:29 We can only do so many things.
0:09:32 And so if we just prioritize what we’re doing
0:09:33 and set some boundaries,
0:09:36 then we shouldn’t necessarily get overwhelmed.
0:09:38 It also helps that you have a wife
0:09:42 where you guys are very communicative about your goals.
0:09:44 You both set out to be entrepreneurs.
0:09:47 You’ve decided to do things like not have children
0:09:49 so you can be successful entrepreneurs.
0:09:53 So do you feel like the relationship that you chose
0:09:57 with your wife also helps you be a better entrepreneur?
0:09:58 – No doubt about that.
0:10:01 My marriage has given me more of everything
0:10:03 that you could want than anything else.
0:10:05 So my wife has certainly made me a better person.
0:10:07 I do not know who I would be if I had not met her.
0:10:10 I met her in my early 20s.
0:10:13 And we’ve been together for 24 years, married for over 22.
0:10:15 It’s crazy.
0:10:16 Yeah, it’s extraordinary.
0:10:17 Absolutely.
0:10:18 And having somebody that supports you
0:10:19 and having somebody that sees things
0:10:21 that you would otherwise be blind to,
0:10:23 somebody that instead of getting on their knees
0:10:25 and crying with you when things are going rough,
0:10:26 they’re like picking you back up
0:10:29 and reminding you who you are and brushing your shoulders up.
0:10:33 My wife has given me the Jerry Maguire speech many times
0:10:36 to get me back in the game when you’re starting to flag.
0:10:39 So that’s really been incredible.
0:10:42 Being self-aware and having a partner
0:10:45 that is also self-aware and that can talk with you
0:10:48 and lay options out and help you problem solve,
0:10:52 that’s really the thing that I would give the credit to.
0:10:55 And so you don’t necessarily need a significant other.
0:10:58 It helps, it’s wonderful and I encourage it for everybody.
0:11:01 But I don’t want people to feel like that’s out of reach
0:11:03 simply because you don’t have a partner
0:11:04 ’cause it ultimately comes down to
0:11:07 what are the beliefs that you hold that are choices?
0:11:09 What are the values that you hold?
0:11:10 Those are choices.
0:11:13 And if you live by your beliefs and your values
0:11:16 and your beliefs and values are positive
0:11:17 and they move you in the right direction,
0:11:18 you’re gonna be fine.
0:11:20 Now, if you have a significant other
0:11:22 to reinforce it all even better,
0:11:24 that’s certainly not necessary.
0:11:27 So we were just talking about how entrepreneurship
0:11:29 can be a little bit overwhelming.
0:11:33 I mean, you were building a new virtual world, right?
0:11:34 That’s a very complex thing
0:11:36 that I’m sure took a lot of dedication.
0:11:39 There was a lot of experimentation, a lot of challenges.
0:11:42 And I’m sure a failure along the way.
0:11:44 So as a seasoned entrepreneur
0:11:46 who has built many different successful companies,
0:11:49 how are you approaching failure now?
0:11:52 – Well, so failure, the only right way to approach it
0:11:54 is to approach it like AI.
0:11:56 So when AI is trying to learn a pattern,
0:11:59 which is essentially what all of us are trying to do,
0:12:01 it tries a thing and it gets a result.
0:12:03 And it’s not like, I mean, you can’t imagine the AI
0:12:05 having like an emotional breakdown.
0:12:07 Oh my God, like I tried to play this video game
0:12:08 and it didn’t work.
0:12:09 It’s like the AI just goes,
0:12:11 okay, I’m trying to learn the rules of the game
0:12:12 and I move the paddle this way
0:12:14 and I don’t make contact with the ball.
0:12:15 I don’t get any points.
0:12:16 So what if I move over here
0:12:17 and then eventually it makes contact with the ball
0:12:19 and the ball bounces and scores a point.
0:12:20 It’s like, oh, okay, I see now.
0:12:23 I have to make contact with the paddle and the ball
0:12:24 and the ball will then hit this.
0:12:28 And so you’re just getting what are known in AI as samples.
0:12:30 So you try a thing, it gives you a piece of data.
0:12:32 This is a sample.
0:12:34 Now you know a little bit more about the world.
0:12:37 And if people understood that you’re running trial and error
0:12:39 as a way of building up a prediction engine
0:12:42 so that you know, oh, when I do this, I get this outcome.
0:12:43 And that really is all life is.
0:12:45 It’s what I call the physics of progress.
0:12:47 You’re trying to build a prediction engine
0:12:49 so that you know when I do this, I get this result.
0:12:52 And I wanna go to XYZ goal
0:12:54 and I see what I have to do in order to get there.
0:12:56 And I’ve got such an accurate prediction engine.
0:12:59 I can now do all the things that are gonna take me there.
0:13:02 Now, you can never be guaranteed to arrive at your goal
0:13:05 because the world is just changing so rapidly.
0:13:08 But at least if you’re running this exercise
0:13:10 of the physics of progress,
0:13:12 you always know what to try next.
0:13:13 Whether it will work or not
0:13:15 depends on a whole host of factors.
0:13:17 But that is really, really useful.
0:13:21 And failure is a necessary part of that sequence.
0:13:23 And there’s an amazing guy,
0:13:26 is the largest hedge fund manager in the world
0:13:27 named Ray Dalio.
0:13:28 He’s got a great quote,
0:13:32 which is pain plus reflection equals progress.
0:13:34 And so when you fail, it hurts,
0:13:37 but that sting causes you to reflect and say,
0:13:39 okay, I wanna feel this way again.
0:13:40 What did I do last time?
0:13:41 What was the outcome that I got?
0:13:44 Let me change my behavior so I can get where I wanna go.
0:13:46 And as long as you don’t let that emotionally break you,
0:13:49 then you can hit escape velocity.
0:13:51 – So something that I’m hearing you say
0:13:54 is that we need to kind of push past our emotions.
0:13:55 Like we might feel overwhelmed.
0:13:56 We might feel stressed.
0:14:00 We might feel like just everything is out of control.
0:14:04 How do we push through our emotions to achieve our goals?
0:14:05 – I would say it slightly differently.
0:14:08 So I think people should distrust their emotions.
0:14:09 So this is where you wanna ground
0:14:12 in the fact that you’re having a biological experience.
0:14:15 And so I’m gonna ask myself, okay, I feel some kind of way.
0:14:17 Why do I feel the way that I feel?
0:14:19 If you’re really gonna go macro,
0:14:21 this is evolution only has two levers.
0:14:22 Pleasure and pain.
0:14:23 Evolution has one goal.
0:14:25 To make sure that you survive long enough
0:14:26 to have kids and to have kids.
0:14:29 Okay, so I’m doing something right now that hurts.
0:14:30 That means I’m doing a thing
0:14:33 that evolution does not want me to keep doing.
0:14:34 Or I’m doing something pleasurable.
0:14:36 This is something that evolution wants me to keep doing.
0:14:39 Okay, now if my goal is not focused
0:14:41 on having kids that live long enough to have kids,
0:14:42 I have some different goal,
0:14:44 then those emotions might not be what I need
0:14:45 to reach my goal.
0:14:47 And this is what I see all the time.
0:14:51 People confuse feeling with thinking.
0:14:53 Don’t make that mistake, boys and girls.
0:14:54 Feeling is not thinking.
0:14:59 So feelings are literally a very high bandwidth communication
0:15:03 from the part of your body and your subconscious mind
0:15:07 that can read a lot of points of data very, very quickly.
0:15:10 But it’s hard to translate that into conscious thought,
0:15:14 into words, even more narrow of a data pipe.
0:15:16 And so you just get a feeling, right?
0:15:17 Tiger and bush run.
0:15:18 You don’t have to like think through it.
0:15:19 In fact, you may not even get to tiger.
0:15:20 You just have a sense.
0:15:22 I need to get out of here right now.
0:15:23 You don’t know why you don’t know what it is.
0:15:26 Maybe you picked up on a rustling in the bush,
0:15:28 certain way, you know, a stick cracked.
0:15:31 And the same is true in relationships, in business.
0:15:33 You just get this overwhelming feeling.
0:15:34 Now, if in that moment,
0:15:36 you realize my life isn’t actually in danger.
0:15:38 So the fact that I’m having this really strong emotion
0:15:42 should lead me to pause and go, why am I feeling this?
0:15:47 And if you can pull that very high bandwidth emotion
0:15:50 through that low bandwidth pipe into your conscious mind
0:15:53 and say, oh, this is what all of that is boiled down
0:15:54 to something very simple,
0:15:55 which is almost always,
0:15:57 if you’re having a negative emotion anyway,
0:15:58 it’s almost always an insecurity.
0:16:01 So I’m worried if I don’t get this right,
0:16:03 my business is gonna fail and then I’m gonna lose her.
0:16:06 I’m a loser and my parents are gonna disown me
0:16:08 or my girlfriend is gonna break up with me, whatever.
0:16:11 And it’s all happening again, based on that level of emotion.
0:16:14 If you can slow down and say, hold on, that’s overwrought,
0:16:15 that’s ridiculous.
0:16:18 This is one of many things that I need to think through.
0:16:20 I can make a lot of mistakes and still be fine.
0:16:21 I do need to be thoughtful.
0:16:24 I need to learn my lessons, but people don’t do that.
0:16:26 They get mad and they react mad
0:16:28 and then that makes things worse.
0:16:30 And they never take the time to say, why am I mad?
0:16:32 Oh, wow, this is an insecurity,
0:16:35 not anything positive or empowering.
0:16:39 This is an emotion designed to mask the underlying thing.
0:16:40 – I know a lot of entrepreneurs
0:16:41 that are tuning into the show.
0:16:46 Like we’re talking right now about challenges, failure,
0:16:50 trying to not trust our emotions, like you said.
0:16:52 And I know that you talk,
0:16:54 or at least in the past you’ve mentioned before,
0:16:57 you might have changed your approach to this,
0:17:00 but you take a first principles approach to thinking.
0:17:02 Can you talk to us about what that is?
0:17:05 – Yeah, and if I ever change my first principles approach,
0:17:07 you should be the first to come punch me in the mouth.
0:17:10 So first principles is quite literally
0:17:11 the only way to think.
0:17:13 It is at its simplest.
0:17:16 It is trying to get to the fundamental base reality
0:17:19 that we all live in, which we are shockingly bad at.
0:17:20 And I can explain why later,
0:17:23 but the idea is don’t reason from analogy,
0:17:25 reason up from physics.
0:17:29 So the great example of this is Elon Musk saying,
0:17:32 hey, for us to make a electric car
0:17:35 that is priced to a place
0:17:37 where the average person can afford it,
0:17:38 we have to completely reinvent
0:17:40 the way the batteries are made.
0:17:41 Now, when they went around to everybody,
0:17:43 everyone’s just like, but this is the cost of batteries.
0:17:44 And he was like, well,
0:17:46 does it violate the laws of physics
0:17:47 to lower the cost of batteries?
0:17:49 It might, if you go and look at what it costs
0:17:50 to get it out of the ground and all that stuff
0:17:53 and to mine it and you may be like, yeah,
0:17:55 this is just it and there’s no way to get any cheaper.
0:17:57 But when he looked at it, he realized, whoa,
0:17:58 there’s like all these markups along the way
0:18:00 we could actually get closer to the source.
0:18:01 We can do them for a lot cheaper.
0:18:03 Cool, same thing happened to me at Quest.
0:18:06 We took our formulation for a protein bar
0:18:09 to the manufacturers and they said, this bar can’t be made.
0:18:12 And we’re like, hold on, does manufacturing this bar
0:18:13 actually violate the laws of physics?
0:18:15 Like that doesn’t seem true.
0:18:18 And so we went and looked at it and long story short,
0:18:20 we realized what was happening is
0:18:23 because the government subsidized corn.
0:18:26 Everybody used high fructose corn syrup
0:18:27 in their products as a sweetener.
0:18:29 It’s cheap, it’s delicious.
0:18:32 So all the equipment that had been manufactured
0:18:35 over like the last 70 years could be made
0:18:37 with the assumption that all the products
0:18:39 that would run on it would have high fructose corn syrup.
0:18:41 So this government intervention
0:18:44 had all these downstream effects that nobody thought of.
0:18:45 So when we said, well, wait,
0:18:47 it’s not that the bar can’t be made,
0:18:49 it’s that we would have to engineer our own equipment.
0:18:52 And so by being willing to engineer our own equipment
0:18:53 and becoming our own manufacturer,
0:18:54 suddenly it wasn’t impossible,
0:18:57 it was just impossible with that equipment.
0:19:01 And so by thinking from first principles of, okay,
0:19:03 this bar only takes a certain amount of pressure
0:19:05 to put down, the bar has a certain viscosity,
0:19:08 the bar has a certain level of stickiness.
0:19:10 So what could we re-engineer on the equipment
0:19:14 to deal with the deviations from a standard product
0:19:15 to our product?
0:19:17 And once you engineer equipment
0:19:18 with those different tolerances,
0:19:19 now it produces just fine.
0:19:21 And that ends up being one of the reasons
0:19:22 that we are very successful.
0:19:24 So that’s thinking from first principles.
0:19:26 You’re not allowing anybody
0:19:28 to hand you a frame of reference.
0:19:30 When people say, think outside the box,
0:19:33 what they mean is you’ve been handed a frame of reference.
0:19:36 You see the entire world through that frame of reference.
0:19:39 And you don’t realize it’s artificially limited
0:19:42 because it’s all shorthand, it’s all analogy,
0:19:45 instead of saying, well, hold on,
0:19:46 this is just how we view the world.
0:19:50 It’s not necessarily how the world actually is.
0:19:53 And so let me, again, go back down to base physics
0:19:54 and build up from that.
0:19:57 And if you sell an info product or something like that,
0:20:00 start with human psychology and build up from that.
0:20:03 But don’t let anybody tell you something is impossible
0:20:06 unless it legitimately violates the laws of physics.
0:20:08 – What do you mean start with human psychology
0:20:09 for info products?
0:20:10 ‘Cause I think I have a lot
0:20:12 of like online entrepreneurs listening.
0:20:14 – So I don’t want people to feel like
0:20:16 this is an exercise where it’s like, oh my God,
0:20:20 do I really have to go back to quarks and bosons
0:20:21 and all that stuff,
0:20:23 which we don’t even fully understand anyway.
0:20:27 So most of the time when I’m running this experiment,
0:20:29 it’s for something for sales and marketing.
0:20:31 And so forget all the early stuff.
0:20:34 Just get to how does a human mind operate?
0:20:36 What do people look for in products?
0:20:37 Like what is the truth?
0:20:39 The inescapable truth of the human mind.
0:20:41 So like, for instance,
0:20:43 people don’t make decisions rationally,
0:20:44 they make them emotionally.
0:20:46 I mean, I can just tell you that from the architecture
0:20:49 of the human mind standpoint, that is true.
0:20:51 And so once you get to that, it’s like,
0:20:53 oh, well you may want to sell this product
0:20:54 on features and benefits,
0:20:56 but it won’t work because that’s not the architecture
0:20:57 of the human mind.
0:20:59 So now instead of like,
0:21:02 if you’re looking at somebody else in your field
0:21:03 and you think, well,
0:21:05 they’re doing it as good as it can be done.
0:21:06 Well, not necessarily.
0:21:09 What are they missing in terms of their approach?
0:21:12 That would allow you to get more bang for your buck.
0:21:15 If you go back to instead of the frame of reference
0:21:16 that they’re handing you and go,
0:21:17 what do I know to be true
0:21:19 about the way the human mind works?
0:21:22 Now you can do something better.
0:21:25 You can do something different and when,
0:21:28 because you’re building up from universal truths
0:21:29 about how people think.
0:21:31 – Let’s hold that thought
0:21:33 and take a quick break with our sponsors.
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0:26:12 So I want to move on to your personal journey.
0:26:14 I feel like a lot of your philosophies
0:26:17 about life came from your own struggles
0:26:19 and learning from them and things like that.
0:26:21 So when I did research about what you were like
0:26:24 as a child and a teen, it turns out
0:26:27 that you self-describe yourself as somebody
0:26:29 who is naturally lazy.
0:26:33 And I’d love to learn about what you were like
0:26:36 as a child and a teen and what kind of self-respect
0:26:40 or lack of self-respect that you had for yourself back then.
0:26:42 Okay, so that went in interesting waves.
0:26:46 So when I was young, I felt very confident in myself,
0:26:50 but I absolutely lacked self-awareness of any kind.
0:26:52 And then as I began to develop self-awareness,
0:26:56 I became incredibly self-conscious and very insecure
0:26:58 and then was afraid that I wasn’t gonna be able
0:27:01 to achieve the goals that I wanted to achieve
0:27:04 because I wasn’t good at the things I needed to be good at.
0:27:08 And I, at the time, just by default had a fixed mindset.
0:27:10 So I believe that my talent and intelligence
0:27:12 were fixed traits and life was just about
0:27:14 making the most of what I had.
0:27:17 Now, the honest answer is we are 50% hardwired.
0:27:20 Like half of what you’re gonna be able to achieve
0:27:24 is grounded by just the hand that you’ve been dealt,
0:27:25 but 50% is malleable.
0:27:29 And so I started really focusing on the part
0:27:31 that I could change and not worrying
0:27:34 about whatever was hardwired, it is what it is.
0:27:37 And so what can I do with that part that I could change?
0:27:39 And once I started leaning into that,
0:27:41 then it was like, okay, I didn’t need to believe
0:27:45 I was special, I just needed to believe that I was average
0:27:47 and that the average human is actually designed,
0:27:49 it’s what I call the only belief that matters.
0:27:51 The average human is designed to get better.
0:27:53 So if you put time and attention
0:27:55 into getting good at something,
0:27:57 you will actually get good at that thing.
0:27:59 You just have to put the time and attention in.
0:28:01 So then it’s like, okay, well, my goal makes a demand
0:28:03 that I be good at XYZ thing.
0:28:05 Am I willing to go get good at it?
0:28:07 Because I could certainly just assume
0:28:10 you can get a hundred times better at anything.
0:28:11 Am I willing to put the time and energy
0:28:13 to get a hundred times better
0:28:15 and is a hundred times better gonna be good enough?
0:28:17 And if it is and you’re willing,
0:28:18 then you go down that path.
0:28:20 And if it’s not, you either stop pursuing that thing
0:28:23 or you find a partner that can be good at the thing
0:28:25 that you’ve decided you’re not going to invest in.
0:28:28 But really getting the lay of the land
0:28:30 of how the human animal actually works
0:28:33 was freakishly liberating for me
0:28:35 because I didn’t have to believe I was born special,
0:28:38 but it was incredibly encouraging to know
0:28:42 that I could get better in any aspect of my life.
0:28:43 – I wanna dig on this a little bit
0:28:46 because I thought this was one of the most interesting things
0:28:49 that I learned about you is that you feel
0:28:52 that free will is an illusion
0:28:55 or you’ve at least said that before, right?
0:28:58 – Yes, free will is an illusion though.
0:29:00 And I mean, is an illusion.
0:29:03 And if you don’t believe me, read the book Determined,
0:29:05 it’s an unrefutable take.
0:29:07 People will try to refute it, but if you read the whole book,
0:29:09 I mean, he really does attack every answer.
0:29:10 – Is that Robert Sapolsky?
0:29:11 – It is.
0:29:14 – Yes, I had him on the show and we talked about it, yeah.
0:29:16 – So good, man, so good.
0:29:17 You’ve got good guests, I like it.
0:29:19 I’m in good company here.
0:29:21 So yeah, Robert Sapolsky, absolutely brilliant.
0:29:23 It’s just a horrifying truth
0:29:26 that we all think we have free will, but we really don’t.
0:29:28 But I don’t think it matters.
0:29:29 And I think if you let it influence your life,
0:29:30 it will drive you crazy.
0:29:33 You need to act as if you have free will.
0:29:34 It’s the only logical way
0:29:37 because here’s why that matters.
0:29:39 Even though we are a automata
0:29:41 that are just responding to things,
0:29:44 we do respond to ideas and we are changeable
0:29:45 and we are changed by our surroundings.
0:29:47 This is why culture just keeps getting
0:29:49 better and better and better
0:29:52 because as we learn more, we’re able to do more,
0:29:56 but there is no ability to escape your biology.
0:29:57 It’s just not possible.
0:29:59 Like even the most monk of monks
0:30:01 has not escaped their biology.
0:30:04 They’ve leveraged their biology in a pretty fascinating way,
0:30:06 but they have not escaped their biology.
0:30:08 And so just as nobody can will themselves to fly,
0:30:10 they cannot will themselves to think a thought
0:30:12 that they’ve never thought, if they could,
0:30:14 then I would say, please solve quantum physics
0:30:17 because that’s in need of a solve.
0:30:19 And if they then say, well, but I’m not smart enough,
0:30:20 it doesn’t have to do a free will.
0:30:21 Yes, it does.
0:30:24 You’re just telling me that you’re limited by your biology,
0:30:25 which we already agree on.
0:30:27 So I wouldn’t spend a lot of time there,
0:30:29 but it is true.
0:30:30 – Yeah.
0:30:31 So basically what you’re saying is that
0:30:34 even though there might be biological factors,
0:30:38 environmental factors are like our own personal history
0:30:39 that impacts all of our decisions,
0:30:42 we have the ability to change.
0:30:44 We have the ability to improve and things like that.
0:30:45 Yeah.
0:30:47 I was just gonna say, when I talked to Robert Sapolsky,
0:30:51 he was really adamant that like nothing is in our control.
0:30:53 And he basically was saying that,
0:30:56 if somebody’s poor and poor 20 years later,
0:30:57 it’s not their fault.
0:30:59 If somebody is obese and cannot lose weight,
0:31:00 it’s not their fault.
0:31:01 If somebody has a drug addiction, it’s not their fault.
0:31:02 It is their biology.
0:31:05 It is like out of their control.
0:31:07 Basically saying that anybody who’s successful
0:31:08 is basically lucky.
0:31:09 And to me, I was like,
0:31:11 I don’t know if I necessarily believe that.
0:31:14 I feel like everybody has the ability to change.
0:31:16 – You do have the ability to change.
0:31:16 The question is,
0:31:19 do you have the ability to direct that change?
0:31:22 And I think he is correct.
0:31:24 I know he is correct that we don’t.
0:31:26 But here’s the catch.
0:31:31 That idea is a worse idea for knowing
0:31:35 that people will respond and change based on ideas.
0:31:37 So it’s one of those, it is true
0:31:40 and I never fight against anything that’s true.
0:31:42 But part of the reason I don’t bang that drum a lot
0:31:44 is that it’s just not a super helpful idea.
0:31:47 So I have a goal and that’s human flourishing.
0:31:50 To get to human flourishing, you have to pursue fulfillment.
0:31:53 To pursue fulfillment, you need to act as if
0:31:57 you can change your circumstances and make your life better
0:31:59 and make the lives of others around you better.
0:32:03 And if you go down that path,
0:32:04 you will feel better about your life.
0:32:06 And if you don’t, you won’t.
0:32:07 Now, it is just true.
0:32:09 I can’t stop myself from saying that.
0:32:11 I am hardwired, I’ve encountered these other ideas
0:32:13 that make me want to say this.
0:32:16 But great, I’m still gonna act as if I’m in control
0:32:18 and it makes my life better.
0:32:20 And so I have a rule.
0:32:24 I only do and believe that which moves me towards my goals.
0:32:27 I’m not trying to create a false picture of the world.
0:32:30 In fact, I’m trying to get to ground truth.
0:32:32 However, I know that humans are ridiculously bad
0:32:35 at identifying what is actually true.
0:32:38 Therefore, I have to steer by something that I can tell
0:32:39 and that’s effectiveness.
0:32:44 So how useful is an idea in getting me where I wanna go?
0:32:46 And if I, going back to one of your earliest questions,
0:32:49 if I wanna feel good about myself when I’m by myself,
0:32:53 what do I need to believe in order to do that?
0:32:56 And so even though I know I’m just responding
0:32:58 to my environment and my biology,
0:33:00 that’s not a good overarching narrative
0:33:02 because it demotivates me.
0:33:05 And so it’s true, I just don’t think about it.
0:33:07 I think about things that motivate me.
0:33:09 And that has led me to where I wanna go.
0:33:11 – So free will is an illusion,
0:33:14 but we need to act as if we’re in control
0:33:15 and operate from there.
0:33:18 – As long as you understand need as it relates to,
0:33:22 it is a more efficient way to get to the goal I have stated,
0:33:24 which is human flourishing.
0:33:25 But if somebody has a different goal,
0:33:27 then it may not be as necessary.
0:33:30 Like obviously for Robert Sapolsky,
0:33:32 he’s got a goal that’s more in line with being,
0:33:37 he would probably sum it up as a moral compassionate being.
0:33:41 And so he to him, it is a moral violation
0:33:44 to hold people responsible for their lot in life.
0:33:47 Whereas for me, it is a moral violation
0:33:51 to let people roam around the streets, attack people.
0:33:54 Even though I’m like, sure, it’s not your fault,
0:33:57 but I don’t care, you can’t roam the streets hitting people.
0:34:01 So everything is an echo of somebody’s goal,
0:34:03 whether they realize it or not.
0:34:04 – Makes sense.
0:34:08 Okay, so you were saying that you’re naturally lazy
0:34:11 and you’ve been able to create a billion dollar company
0:34:14 with quests, you’ve built impact theory.
0:34:16 How can other people who might feel like
0:34:18 they’re naturally lazy,
0:34:21 that they don’t really feel like getting out of bed,
0:34:23 but they still feel ambitious?
0:34:26 What are some tips for them?
0:34:28 – All right, I was just talking about this
0:34:31 on my Twitch gaming stream this morning.
0:34:33 So, okay, it goes like this.
0:34:36 First, you need to know exactly what your goal is.
0:34:40 You need to care deeply about your goal.
0:34:42 Like you have to really want it.
0:34:44 And you can run something I call the loop of desire
0:34:47 to reinforce that, but you have to know what your goal is,
0:34:48 you have to really want your goal.
0:34:51 Then you have to make sure that you’re doing the things
0:34:54 that are causing you to actually progress towards that goal.
0:34:56 Tony Robbins talks about how progress
0:34:58 is a foundational pillar to human happiness.
0:35:00 Anytime you see something like that,
0:35:02 you know you’re tapping into those evolutionary algorithms
0:35:04 that are running in your brain.
0:35:05 So it just feels good.
0:35:07 And then on top of that,
0:35:09 this needs to be something that you have
0:35:12 a really strong why that you’re doing this.
0:35:14 So I’m doing this to help these people
0:35:16 is gonna be the most universal why.
0:35:18 There’s a group of people you care about
0:35:19 for whatever reason you care about them.
0:35:22 And you’re pursuing this thing to help them.
0:35:25 And now that taps into the evolutionary demand
0:35:27 that we have that we contribute to the group.
0:35:30 And so if you want to stop being lazy,
0:35:32 ironically, that’s the sequence.
0:35:35 And then one thing I’ll add is you need rules in your life
0:35:38 just so that you can demarcate whether you’re doing the thing
0:35:39 that you should be or not.
0:35:42 So the most important rule I ever put in my life
0:35:44 was that once I realized I’m awake,
0:35:46 I get out of bed in 10 minutes or less.
0:35:48 And I did that because I would lay in bed
0:35:51 four and five hours a day every day.
0:35:53 It was, I mean, looking back now, it’s really crazy.
0:35:57 The heartbreak I feel over how much time I lost.
0:35:59 So finally, I was just like, this is absurd.
0:36:01 I’m now ashamed of myself.
0:36:03 Shame actually ended up being helpful,
0:36:05 but it was not fun to go through.
0:36:07 And so once I finally built up enough shame,
0:36:10 I was like, okay, the only way I can think to break this
0:36:12 is to set a timer and be like, okay,
0:36:14 you have to get out of bed no matter what.
0:36:19 And that one simple rule has been one of the most
0:36:22 impactful things in my life.
0:36:23 Such good advice.
0:36:25 And I know Mel Robbins has that like rule
0:36:26 where it’s kind of like one, two, three,
0:36:29 jump out of bed, talking to her soon.
0:36:30 I’m looking forward to it.
0:36:31 – Oh, she’s amazing.
0:36:32 You’re gonna love her.
0:36:36 – So let’s talk about you joining film school.
0:36:40 So it’s no wonder that you’ve built this incredible video
0:36:43 podcast that has been pioneering the industry.
0:36:46 And film school was really a turning point in your life
0:36:50 where you started to really turn things around
0:36:53 and you got really motivated by being in film school.
0:36:56 But I did learn that you had sort of a catastrophe
0:37:00 in your senior year that really made you rethink
0:37:02 the way that you approach yourself and the world.
0:37:05 Can you share that story with us?
0:37:07 – Yeah, well, so the catastrophe was just realizing
0:37:08 that I didn’t have talent.
0:37:11 So that was gut wrenching.
0:37:13 So I had a fixed mindset.
0:37:14 So I believed however good I am now
0:37:16 is how good I will be forever.
0:37:18 And that was the mystique of film school was like,
0:37:21 hey, you’re finding the best of the best.
0:37:23 And it was like a whittling down process.
0:37:24 Like, could you get into film school?
0:37:26 That was the first thing.
0:37:29 ‘Cause when I went to USC film school,
0:37:32 it was easier statistically to get into Harvard Law
0:37:34 than it was to get into USC film school.
0:37:36 There were just that many people applying.
0:37:37 And so I got in and I was like,
0:37:40 oh, maybe I really am this brilliant filmmaker.
0:37:42 And then you go through these series of classes,
0:37:44 basically auditioning to see if you can be
0:37:47 one of the four people chosen to do a senior thesis.
0:37:49 And I ended up being one of the four.
0:37:50 And I was like, oh my God, I knew it.
0:37:51 Like this is my chance.
0:37:53 Like I’m just everything I’ve ever wanted
0:37:54 is gonna come true.
0:37:55 I’m gonna graduate.
0:37:56 I’m gonna get the three-picture deal.
0:37:58 I’m the next Steven Spielberg.
0:37:59 It’s gonna be incredible.
0:38:00 And I mean, I could taste it.
0:38:02 And then I made my senior thesis film
0:38:05 and it was terrible, just objectively terrible.
0:38:07 On every metric that a film can be terrible,
0:38:08 it was terrible.
0:38:10 And I didn’t think, oh, cool, let me break this down
0:38:12 to what are the things that I’m not good at yet
0:38:13 that I need to get better at?
0:38:15 Why was it that the earlier films
0:38:18 that got me to be one of the four chosen,
0:38:21 what did I understand about that style of filmmaking
0:38:22 that I didn’t understand?
0:38:23 ‘Cause this is actually a pretty big leap
0:38:25 in style of storytelling.
0:38:27 I would say naturally I had an intuition
0:38:30 for silent storytelling that I did not have
0:38:32 once you bring in dialogue and all of that.
0:38:34 But at the time I couldn’t understand that.
0:38:35 I was just like, oh my God,
0:38:36 like I’m actually not good at this.
0:38:38 I thought I was, but apparently I’m not.
0:38:42 And so that was as close to an existential crisis
0:38:45 as I have ever been.
0:38:47 Because I thought that was gonna be my whole life.
0:38:49 That was the death of a dream that I had.
0:38:51 I mean, when you’re, you know, whatever 22,
0:38:52 you feel like, wait,
0:38:55 my whole life has been pointed towards this.
0:38:57 I thought this was gonna be the next 60 years of my life
0:38:59 and it’s just dead.
0:39:02 And then you find yourself selling insurance door to door.
0:39:04 So I was like, whoa,
0:39:07 it was one of those my how the mighty have fallen
0:39:10 because I went from being celebrated at film school.
0:39:12 I graduated second in my class.
0:39:15 It was like, yo, this guy’s really gonna do something
0:39:19 to actually hold on, no embarrassing.
0:39:20 Everybody knew my film was bad.
0:39:22 It was not like, oh, this is me being hard on myself.
0:39:25 Everyone was like, oh God, that was like a train wreck.
0:39:28 So it was emotionally devastating
0:39:30 and I had no idea what to do.
0:39:33 And then thankfully between Tony Robbins
0:39:36 and some stuff about brain plasticity
0:39:39 and which now of course we would call a growth mindset
0:39:41 but Carol Dweck had not written that book yet.
0:39:43 Unfortunately for me.
0:39:46 So start reading about brain plasticity.
0:39:47 Realize, wait a second,
0:39:49 maybe it is possible to change and get better.
0:39:51 I start teaching film and I realized, wait,
0:39:54 I’m helping these students make their films better.
0:39:57 Why couldn’t I help myself make my own films better?
0:39:58 And so then I was like, oh my God,
0:40:01 this is a game of skill acquisition.
0:40:03 And so then the things we’ve been talking about now
0:40:06 start coming together as my belief system.
0:40:07 And I realized, okay, wait a second,
0:40:09 if I can get better then this is about
0:40:11 putting time and energy into getting better.
0:40:13 And so I just poured myself into that,
0:40:15 poured myself into it from a film perspective,
0:40:18 poured myself in from a business perspective
0:40:19 and the rest is history.
0:40:23 My life is what happens when you answer the question,
0:40:26 how far am I willing and able to go
0:40:28 if I get a hundred times better
0:40:31 at a small number of things that really matter to my goals.
0:40:32 – This is really interesting
0:40:36 because you basically got the motivation
0:40:37 to get better at film.
0:40:39 And earlier you were mentioning that
0:40:41 this is called the loop of desire.
0:40:43 Could you break down what that is exactly?
0:40:45 – Yeah, the loop of desire is really basic.
0:40:48 So you are having a biological experience.
0:40:52 Your brain responds to certain things in a certain way.
0:40:55 One very key thing to understand about your brain
0:40:57 is you become whatever you repeat
0:40:59 because of a process called myelination.
0:41:02 So myelination is the wrapping of fatty tissue
0:41:06 around the connections of the neurons in your brain.
0:41:09 So any emotions you feel, any thoughts you think,
0:41:11 they will become easier for you to think
0:41:14 and therefore will be the things you keep repeating.
0:41:16 So the more you repeat something,
0:41:17 the more you repeat something.
0:41:19 So be careful what you repeat.
0:41:21 So understanding that,
0:41:24 that whatever I repeat is going to solidify in my mind.
0:41:27 So what if I intentionally repeat something positive?
0:41:28 Cool, so let’s try that.
0:41:32 Then there is your brain will justify
0:41:36 whatever amplitude of emotion you display.
0:41:39 So if you freak out, your brain goes,
0:41:41 whoa, I guess this really matters.
0:41:44 So I was like, okay, well, then if I repeat
0:41:46 a really high emotional state,
0:41:48 every time I talk about my goal,
0:41:50 would it begin to myelinate?
0:41:54 Such that now whenever I talk about it,
0:41:55 I get that big emotional response.
0:41:58 So at first it felt like I was faking it.
0:41:59 And then six months later,
0:42:00 whenever I would talk about it,
0:42:03 I would feel that sense of like passion and excitement.
0:42:05 I was like, I can’t believe this works.
0:42:10 So be careful ’cause you can align yourself to dumb things.
0:42:12 So if you pick a goal that’s honorable,
0:42:14 that is legitimately exciting to you
0:42:17 and then talk to yourself about it,
0:42:19 what you’re gonna achieve, what you’re gonna do,
0:42:21 and like with that feeling of passion and excitement
0:42:24 that you hope one day you will feel naturally.
0:42:25 And then when you talk to other people,
0:42:27 which is even easier than talking to yourself,
0:42:31 same thing, you embody, embody the emotion you wanna feel
0:42:33 and do that over and over and over.
0:42:35 And then at least in my experience,
0:42:37 I would call it four to six months later.
0:42:38 Now you can just be talking about it normally
0:42:40 and you get that sense of like,
0:42:41 oh man, this is really important to me.
0:42:42 This is really exciting.
0:42:45 You’re like, wow, it’s so crazy because six months ago,
0:42:47 I was interested, like it was legitimate.
0:42:50 I didn’t try to tie it to like, I really love grass.
0:42:54 Like it’s something you already have an interest in.
0:42:55 But by doing that,
0:42:57 now you’ve got the impetus to gain the skills.
0:42:59 And by having that initial burst of energy
0:43:02 married with getting the actual skill set,
0:43:03 now you can make progress.
0:43:06 When you’re making progress, then passion kicks in.
0:43:07 But you’re not gonna get to passion
0:43:10 until you’re actually able to use that skill
0:43:12 in the real world to get feedback from other people.
0:43:14 You were the shout in the echo.
0:43:16 People are telling you, hey, you’re improving my life
0:43:17 by that thing you do.
0:43:19 That thing you do could be podcasting.
0:43:21 That thing you could do could be building a video game
0:43:22 like I’m doing now.
0:43:23 It could be accounting, whatever,
0:43:25 but people give you positive feedback.
0:43:29 This is why so often adults are pursuing something
0:43:32 that they first got that positive feedback on as a kid.
0:43:35 We’ll be right back after a quick break from our sponsors.
0:43:41 Okay, let’s talk about storytelling
0:43:44 because you went to film school,
0:43:46 now you are running Impact Theory,
0:43:48 which is a huge platform.
0:43:50 And I know a lot of what you do with Impact Theory
0:43:55 is really storytelling to bring about impact.
0:43:56 So talk to us about what you’ve learned
0:43:58 about storytelling both at school
0:43:59 and then of course in the real world,
0:44:01 building impact theory
0:44:03 and how we can use storytelling in our businesses
0:44:05 to attract customers.
0:44:10 – Okay, so at Quest, we had 3,000 employees
0:44:13 and 1,000 of them that grew up in the inner cities.
0:44:15 And I thought, hmm, these guys are smart.
0:44:17 Some of them smarter than me,
0:44:19 but they’re not doing anything with their lives.
0:44:20 And when I started asking them like,
0:44:22 hey, why aren’t you doing this out of the other?
0:44:24 The answers that came back were just ridiculous.
0:44:28 And so I was like, this is not a intelligence problem.
0:44:29 This is an idea problem.
0:44:33 So I started what I then called Quest University.
0:44:34 And I was like, let me teach you everything
0:44:36 I know about entrepreneurship.
0:44:37 One, it will just be good for your life.
0:44:39 You can go on to work for any company at that.
0:44:42 Like if you can master the skills that I’m teaching you guys,
0:44:43 you’ll be able to work anywhere.
0:44:45 Now, my hope of course is that you stay here
0:44:47 because you realize I care about your future
0:44:49 more than your own mother,
0:44:52 but you’ll be empowered, you can go anywhere that you want.
0:44:53 And I poured my heart and soul into it.
0:44:55 I came early, I stayed late.
0:44:58 And we’ve had people start other companies
0:45:02 that are still running to this day almost a decade later.
0:45:04 Absolutely incredible, I love it the most.
0:45:07 The only catch is it was only 2% of the people
0:45:12 that I brought those ideas to, 98% did nothing.
0:45:14 And so I really started to get obsessed with,
0:45:17 okay, what would we have to do to reach the 98%?
0:45:20 And I very quickly realized you have to bypass
0:45:21 the logical centers of their brain.
0:45:24 You can’t just say, think like this, act like this.
0:45:27 You’ve got to really get into the storytelling of it all.
0:45:29 And I mean, look, when you see political campaigns
0:45:31 and stuff like that, that’s exactly what they’re doing.
0:45:32 They’re telling a story.
0:45:35 Stories simplify things and they focus attention.
0:45:38 And that is the magic of storytelling.
0:45:42 This is exactly how humans are able to come together
0:45:44 in these gigantic, flexible groups
0:45:46 with people they’ve never even met and cooperate.
0:45:47 You have shared stories.
0:45:49 It could be shared story of a nation state.
0:45:52 Could be shared story of a religion,
0:45:55 but you need some sort of shared story to pass on values,
0:45:59 to pass on identity, to give people a unified narrative.
0:46:03 So for better or worse, humans are a meaning making machine
0:46:07 and stories allow you to transmit meaning.
0:46:10 So they’re just a mechanism by which you simplify things
0:46:12 enough to extract meaning from.
0:46:13 So we do it all the time.
0:46:18 When we stub our toe on the coffee table, we tell a story.
0:46:20 We’re an idiot because we don’t pay attention enough
0:46:23 to our surroundings and that’s what stubbing our toe means.
0:46:25 Or you could tell yourself the story of,
0:46:27 man, I’m so hardcore.
0:46:29 I probably broke my toe just now, but I don’t stop.
0:46:30 I don’t quit.
0:46:32 I’m the kind of guy that keeps pushing forward.
0:46:34 So it all comes down to what’s the story
0:46:36 that you tell yourself about that thing.
0:46:39 So it isn’t what happens, it’s what it means.
0:46:41 And once people understand what it means,
0:46:43 you’re telling yourself that story.
0:46:44 Someone may have said it from the outside,
0:46:46 but you decided that that’s what you were gonna repeat.
0:46:48 That’s where you were going to adopt.
0:46:49 So whether you’re a marketer,
0:46:51 whether you’re just trying to lead your own team,
0:46:52 you’ve got to tell them a story.
0:46:54 This is why every company needs a mission.
0:46:57 Your mission statement is about galvanizing your team.
0:46:59 It’s about telling the consumer what it means
0:47:03 to buy your product, what they’re sort of becoming a part of.
0:47:05 And then in your marketing, you wanna tell something
0:47:07 that’s simple enough that people can remember it
0:47:08 like it’s a story.
0:47:11 And oftentimes just literally telling a story
0:47:15 inside of your marketing is one of the most
0:47:16 useful things that you could do.
0:47:18 A couple of times in this interview,
0:47:20 you’ve asked me to tell stories for my childhood or whatever.
0:47:23 And so we all just resonate to story.
0:47:26 So in the same way that when humans look at an image,
0:47:28 we look for eyes.
0:47:31 When people are hearing, okay, this thing happened,
0:47:32 they’re looking for the story in it.
0:47:34 And so if you reveal character through it,
0:47:35 if you reveal a moral through it,
0:47:37 people are gonna remember it way more
0:47:39 than if it’s just a list of facts.
0:47:42 This is why humans get so bored in high school history,
0:47:44 only to later discover through, you know,
0:47:46 like a hardcore history episode.
0:47:48 Actually, history is amazing,
0:47:51 but history is only amazing when you tell it like a story.
0:47:52 If you tell it like a story, it’s fascinating.
0:47:55 You tell it like disembodied facts and figures,
0:47:57 not interesting at all and hard to remember
0:48:00 because that’s not the architecture of the human mind.
0:48:02 – Storytelling is so powerful in business
0:48:03 and personal relationships.
0:48:06 I feel like storytelling is a skill that everybody
0:48:08 could improve and continually improve.
0:48:11 So speaking of stories, I wanna hear the story
0:48:13 of you becoming an entrepreneur.
0:48:14 Was it not being an entrepreneur something
0:48:18 that you always imagined or did it kind of just happen?
0:48:19 – Well, didn’t just happen,
0:48:21 but it was not something I ever thought I would do.
0:48:25 So you heard the story of me graduating film school
0:48:28 and things not going well.
0:48:32 I met these two entrepreneurs and they were bang on the money
0:48:33 and they said, look, you’re coming to the world
0:48:34 with your hand out.
0:48:36 And if you wanna control the art,
0:48:38 you have to control the resources.
0:48:40 So if you wanna build a studio,
0:48:41 you wanna tell your own stories,
0:48:44 you should get into business and get rich.
0:48:46 And I was like, oh man, that’s so smart.
0:48:49 I can’t believe I didn’t think about that before, brilliant.
0:48:53 And this is like right before the tech bubble burst.
0:48:56 So I was like, oh word, man, I’m gonna get into tech,
0:48:59 take 18 months, build a company, sell it, all’s good,
0:49:01 be able to make my own movies.
0:49:03 And that didn’t work.
0:49:07 So 18 months turned into 15 years, but it did work.
0:49:10 And so that obviously ends up being incredible.
0:49:14 And during that journey, I end up finding stroke,
0:49:18 constructing the reason that I was gonna make films.
0:49:20 So instead of just doing it ’cause I like stories,
0:49:24 it became who am I gonna help impact theory arises.
0:49:25 It’s literally called impact theory
0:49:27 because my theory on how to impact people
0:49:29 at scale is through story.
0:49:31 So putting empowerment at the center of it
0:49:33 becomes the whole jam.
0:49:35 So I got into business strictly
0:49:37 so that I could control my own destiny.
0:49:39 But I learned a very powerful lesson,
0:49:42 which is I can guarantee you’re gonna struggle,
0:49:44 but I cannot guarantee you’ll be successful.
0:49:46 And so you better struggle well.
0:49:48 And so I stopped asking myself
0:49:51 what I think is the worst question people could ask,
0:49:54 which is what would I do if I knew I couldn’t fail?
0:49:57 Because failure is the most likely outcome.
0:49:59 So I started asking myself,
0:50:03 what would I do and love every day, even if I were failing?
0:50:07 And so that’s why impact theory is literally architected
0:50:09 from the ground up to be the things that, man,
0:50:12 if I’m gonna fail at something, I wanna fail at this thing.
0:50:16 So that has improved my life immeasurably,
0:50:18 but do keep in mind I’m saying that
0:50:22 after having the gigantic financial success.
0:50:24 So if I had to do it all over again,
0:50:27 I would very much go straight into storytelling.
0:50:30 I would not go into business first, for sure,
0:50:34 because it really is true that your network is your net worth.
0:50:36 These are gonna be the people that open doors for you and stuff.
0:50:39 And so I’m having to completely reinvent myself,
0:50:41 meet all the new people, all that.
0:50:44 And it’s added a decade to my journey.
0:50:46 So I could have gotten it done a lot faster.
0:50:49 Now the problem is going into business
0:50:51 allowed me to learn all these principles.
0:50:54 So I don’t waste time lamenting that I didn’t do it,
0:50:57 but I am not somebody who’s like, I have no regrets.
0:51:00 Yeah, I would do it differently, but such is life.
0:51:03 – So you would have started impact theory first
0:51:05 before the software company, before Quest.
0:51:07 You would have just went straight to impact theory if you could.
0:51:09 – No, I would have gone to somebody
0:51:11 who was living the life I wanted to live,
0:51:14 which would have been at the time in filmmaking,
0:51:17 and said, I will work harder and smarter than anyone you know.
0:51:21 And all I ask in exchange is knowledge and connections.
0:51:25 So I would literally live in a hovel with five other guys,
0:51:27 eat the world’s cheapest food,
0:51:29 do whatever I had to do to get by,
0:51:32 but so that I could be as close to that person
0:51:34 as humanly possible.
0:51:36 I don’t want to work for somebody who works for them.
0:51:38 I want to be next to them all the time,
0:51:39 watching how they deal with the world.
0:51:42 That is insanely useful.
0:51:44 It’s all the in-between stuff that you would never even know.
0:51:46 It’s how a deal is structured.
0:51:48 It’s how to talk to somebody who’s being a dick
0:51:51 in a meeting, but doing it in a way where it’s like,
0:51:53 they’re not quite crossing the threshold
0:51:54 where you can just call it out.
0:51:56 Like how do you handle things like that?
0:51:58 Or somebody comes to you and asks for something
0:52:02 that is clearly they’re reaching beyond
0:52:04 what they have any right to ask for,
0:52:06 but they’re kind of in a tough spot.
0:52:07 And like, do you help them out?
0:52:08 Do you not?
0:52:09 Like all of those things,
0:52:11 when you’re in your early 20s, man,
0:52:13 you have no idea how to handle all that stuff.
0:52:14 You might be shooting from the hip,
0:52:16 but you really don’t have a sense
0:52:17 of how it’s all gonna play out.
0:52:19 And when you can watch somebody go through
0:52:21 all of that soft stuff that’s next to impossible
0:52:22 to teach in a business school,
0:52:25 then it’s like, if you can ask the occasional question,
0:52:27 like, hey, I was really surprised the way you handled that,
0:52:28 that you’re normally so hard on people,
0:52:30 but you were really nice just then.
0:52:32 Like, how do you know when to be hard
0:52:33 and how do you know when to be soft?
0:52:35 And if they’re a thoughtful person and can be like,
0:52:38 okay, well, let me explain why I was doing this here,
0:52:41 why I did something completely different here
0:52:43 and how I typically will make those decisions.
0:52:45 And then to some extent it’s just seeing the patterns
0:52:47 over and over and over and over and over.
0:52:48 But you’re not gonna get that when you start
0:52:51 as a junior, junior, junior, something in a corporation
0:52:53 where everybody’s afraid of losing their job
0:52:55 and they’re lying to each other and playing politics.
0:52:57 It’s all just stupidly nightmarish.
0:53:00 So what I always tell young people is, look,
0:53:01 money only monetizes once.
0:53:03 You can only spend it one time,
0:53:06 but knowledge and connections monetize forever.
0:53:09 – So good, I love that advice.
0:53:11 So Quest Nutrition is a company
0:53:13 that you started as a side hustle
0:53:16 and you ended up selling it for a billion dollars.
0:53:19 So I’m also growing a company called Yap Media
0:53:20 that’s doing really well.
0:53:21 We’re the number one business
0:53:23 and self-improvement podcast network.
0:53:26 We also have a social agency and it’s doing really well.
0:53:27 – Let’s go.
0:53:30 – Yeah, I represent a lot of top podcasters,
0:53:32 Jenna Kutcher, Amy Porterfield, John Lee Dumas,
0:53:33 Russell Brunson.
0:53:34 – That’s amazing.
0:53:36 That’s a stack of really cool people.
0:53:37 I love it.
0:53:39 – I couldn’t imagine selling my company,
0:53:42 but that’s because I think my company’s making impact
0:53:45 and it’s really aligned with my values and my future.
0:53:47 And it feels like everything just feels so aligned
0:53:49 and fun for me right now.
0:53:51 But you ended up selling a company.
0:53:52 That also had a great mission.
0:53:55 So I’m just curious from your standpoint,
0:53:56 what made you decide like, okay,
0:53:57 I’m just gonna sell the company
0:53:59 and work on something now?
0:54:02 – Well, the big thing was I only got into business
0:54:03 so that I could build impact theory.
0:54:05 So that was always self-evident,
0:54:08 but we had had so much success
0:54:10 and my partners and I no longer shared a vision
0:54:12 on how to grow the company.
0:54:14 And so I was like, well, we’ve been this successful.
0:54:17 So I had been building what’s now impact theory
0:54:18 inside of Quest.
0:54:19 It was literally called Inside Quest.
0:54:22 And I said, let me spin out this studio
0:54:24 into a standalone company.
0:54:26 They agreed, spun that out.
0:54:28 And like I said, left Quest on Monday
0:54:30 and on Tuesday was that impact theory.
0:54:32 But yeah, that was the whole thing from the beginning.
0:54:34 The guys that I was partners with back then
0:54:36 were the ones that had said,
0:54:37 hey, you’re coming to the world with your hand out.
0:54:38 You should get into business.
0:54:41 So it was not a surprise to them.
0:54:44 So it was a very simple transition.
0:54:47 And we’ve been at this now for almost a decade.
0:54:49 It’s crazy.
0:54:51 – So one of the things that I read
0:54:53 is that you say that content creation
0:54:55 is going to completely change.
0:54:56 You say the world, as you know it,
0:54:59 as a content creator will end in two years.
0:55:02 Now, as a content creator, that’s very scary.
0:55:04 Why do you believe that?
0:55:08 – So AI tools will make it such that all of the things
0:55:11 that we use as a moat are gonna go away.
0:55:14 So it takes a while to master all the tools.
0:55:16 It takes a while to get all the different people
0:55:18 on your podcast, all that stuff.
0:55:20 What’s going to end up happening
0:55:23 is all of this information is gonna fracture,
0:55:24 like hyper fracture.
0:55:26 And somebody will be able to have an idea for a video
0:55:28 with or without a guest.
0:55:30 I mean, you could post videos of like,
0:55:31 here’s my conversation,
0:55:34 my imagined conversation with Elon Musk, stuff like that.
0:55:36 And instead of actually needing to get that person
0:55:39 on your podcast, you just have the AI spin up
0:55:41 his personality, you ask a bunch of questions.
0:55:43 And if you do it in a way that the audience
0:55:45 finds more interesting than the next person,
0:55:47 then that’s gonna be what it’s gonna be.
0:55:49 So what’s gonna end up happening is right now,
0:55:52 it’s already changed so much, you’re so young,
0:55:53 you probably don’t have a sense
0:55:55 of just how much it’s already changed.
0:55:57 But like when I was growing up,
0:56:00 there was whatever five channels and that was it.
0:56:01 And they controlled the narrative.
0:56:04 And we didn’t even realize the narrative was being controlled.
0:56:07 And then as things have gone to social,
0:56:10 now you start seeing things break apart.
0:56:12 Now, when I started podcasting,
0:56:14 people literally like, Tom, why are you doing this?
0:56:15 It’s already played out.
0:56:17 All the players that are there, that are gonna be there,
0:56:20 it’s already decided, man, it’s too late.
0:56:22 When I started, there were 400 podcasts.
0:56:25 There’s now six million podcasts.
0:56:30 So it is just insane how many more podcasts,
0:56:32 I may have said 400,000 podcasts.
0:56:36 So the world has just changed absolutely dramatically.
0:56:37 And that’s gonna keep happening
0:56:40 where the format of a podcast itself
0:56:44 is gonna get disrupted by somebody alone with an AI
0:56:46 doing things that nobody’s ever thought of before.
0:56:49 And the difficulty of production,
0:56:52 the friction of going from idea to execution
0:56:53 is the current mode.
0:56:55 That’s gonna go away,
0:56:56 which means this will be more like TikTok.
0:57:01 So instead of there being a person that has a podcast,
0:57:03 take a Rogan or something like that,
0:57:06 instead of that person dominating the landscape,
0:57:07 you’re gonna have like,
0:57:09 oh, one of his episodes might pop off,
0:57:11 but somebody else is gonna release something else
0:57:14 that’s a totally unique format that nobody saw coming.
0:57:15 And it’ll just be like that.
0:57:17 And people will just be scrolling onto the next,
0:57:18 onto the next, onto the next.
0:57:20 And that’s gonna happen across everything.
0:57:22 It’s gonna happen across video game production,
0:57:24 which I trust me, I have just as much anxiety as you.
0:57:29 But the key is to adopt AI faster than the competition.
0:57:32 And then just remember that one,
0:57:35 we’re moving towards an abundance reality
0:57:39 where if AI does all of the wildly disruptive stuff
0:57:42 that people think it’s gonna do over the next, say, 10 years,
0:57:46 it’s also gonna be dropping the cost of virtually everything.
0:57:47 So everything is just getting cheaper.
0:57:50 Now this takes you into a post-capitalistic society
0:57:53 and there are big questions around what that looks like,
0:57:55 but people will have access to the things
0:57:57 that they want for far, far, far cheaper.
0:57:59 Now that doesn’t mean people won’t find a way to peacock
0:58:01 through other means, because we will.
0:58:04 But especially when you throw in the mix,
0:58:05 brain-computer interfaces,
0:58:08 this is all gonna get real weird.
0:58:10 There are already people that can play video games,
0:58:12 like proper video games,
0:58:15 using just their brain-computer interface.
0:58:16 It’s nuts.
0:58:18 – And you were just saying, when you first started,
0:58:21 400,000 podcasts and everyone was telling you,
0:58:23 there’s no chance, it’s already saturated.
0:58:26 AI is gonna make things even more saturated.
0:58:30 So what is your perspective about the increased competition
0:58:33 and if there’s even a point to participate
0:58:36 if there’s gonna be that much competition?
0:58:38 – So I think people make a mistake
0:58:41 when they do preemptive quitting or preemptive strikes.
0:58:43 The reality is you wanna pay attention,
0:58:44 you wanna be at the cutting edge,
0:58:46 you wanna be integrating AI right now.
0:58:49 AI is a phenomenal tool and it is a terrible master.
0:58:51 So it’s not gonna be able to do things
0:58:52 without humans yet.
0:58:54 So people should be excited right now for this phase.
0:58:57 It’s going to allow you to do more with less.
0:58:59 And so if you’re somebody like you that’s paying attention,
0:59:00 you’ve got a whole thesis,
0:59:02 you know what you’re moving towards.
0:59:04 AI is gonna help you keep costs down,
0:59:06 it help you stay really nimble.
0:59:09 Now, if AI starts changing the landscape,
0:59:10 then just pay attention.
0:59:12 Like, okay, what do we need to do to stand out?
0:59:14 How do we add value?
0:59:16 And yes, it’s going to change things and yes,
0:59:19 some people are going to get smashed into little pieces.
0:59:21 But if you’re really paying attention
0:59:24 and if you continue to look at
0:59:26 where’s the puck going to go,
0:59:27 then you’ll be in better shape.
0:59:30 Now, I’ve often made the quip that yes,
0:59:32 you should always skate to where the puck is going to go,
0:59:33 but it’s getting a little hard now
0:59:35 ’cause the puck is teleporting,
0:59:36 but it’s the right idea.
0:59:40 You wanna pay attention to, okay, predictive engine.
0:59:41 Where is this going?
0:59:43 What does this mean for content creation?
0:59:45 I think there is gonna be that hyper fragmentation.
0:59:48 I think this is really gonna be about deep communities.
0:59:50 So part of the reason that I’m on Twitch now
0:59:53 doing my video game streaming is that yes,
0:59:53 I’m building a video game,
0:59:56 so I need to build community around that.
0:59:59 But also historically, I built audiences, not communities.
1:00:02 And so this is a chance for me to really build
1:00:05 a deep community where the interactions are very different.
1:00:06 And that’s gonna be something that AI will have
1:00:08 a hard time with just because people know
1:00:11 on the other side of this is not a person, it’s AI.
1:00:13 And so I think there will be some things
1:00:16 that people just have a weird resonance
1:00:19 when it’s AI versus when it’s a real person.
1:00:21 So I’ll be looking for opportunities like that.
1:00:23 I’ll be looking for places where I wanna lean in
1:00:25 to the humanity of it all.
1:00:26 And I’ll be looking for places
1:00:28 where I wanna lean into the AI of it all.
1:00:29 But because I don’t push back
1:00:31 on the way the world actually is,
1:00:34 AI is here, AI will keep getting better.
1:00:37 AI may slow down, but I don’t think it’s gonna stop.
1:00:40 So I’m just paying attention to where it’s at
1:00:42 and how I can leverage it for now.
1:00:45 – And can you tell us more about Project Kaizen
1:00:47 and how it fits into your vision of impact theory
1:00:49 and the future of content creation?
1:00:53 – Yeah, so it is impact theory in the sense
1:00:55 that my theory on how to impact people at scale
1:00:56 is through entertainment.
1:00:58 The most dominant form of entertainment right now
1:00:59 is video games.
1:01:01 Also a core part of my thesis is that
1:01:04 who I’m focused on is 11 to 15 year olds.
1:01:07 So Project Kaizen is a game,
1:01:10 if anybody’s ever heard of Extraction Royale,
1:01:11 it’s an Extraction Royale game
1:01:14 that’s aimed at 11 to 15 year old demographic,
1:01:17 technically 13 and up because of SOPA laws.
1:01:19 But that’s that core demographic
1:01:21 that’s in what’s known as the age of imprinting.
1:01:23 And so trying to reach them
1:01:25 so that we can introduce empowering ideas.
1:01:27 So one of the characters in the game right now,
1:01:28 which is out right now by the way,
1:01:29 if anybody wants to play it,
1:01:33 it’s a free to play game at projectkaizen.io.
1:01:36 And Bruce Lee is one of the characters in the game.
1:01:38 And it’s an official collaboration
1:01:39 with the Bruce Lee family.
1:01:42 And the reason I wanted Bruce to be our launch partner
1:01:45 was he had a tremendous impact on my life,
1:01:47 even though he had passed away before I was born,
1:01:50 but he wrote a book called The Dow of Jeet Kune Do,
1:01:52 which was about his style of martial arts.
1:01:53 And some of the ideas in there,
1:01:55 even though I didn’t train in the martial art,
1:01:58 the ideas were profoundly shaping
1:02:00 for the way that I think now about mindset
1:02:02 and getting better and all of that stuff.
1:02:06 So we wanted him to be a character in the game
1:02:09 who’s like our Morpheus or our Obi-Wan Kenobi,
1:02:13 is the mentor character that’s giving the players advice.
1:02:16 So yeah, really excited for people to get into it.
1:02:18 And then the other part is the UGC aspect.
1:02:21 So players can come in and build their own maps.
1:02:24 And this is the very beginning of a much deeper set of tools
1:02:28 that we’ll build for players to build their own content.
1:02:31 – And you say that projectkaizen is the blueprint
1:02:32 of the creator economy.
1:02:35 Can you help explain what you mean by that
1:02:36 and how it could help build communities
1:02:38 and things like that?
1:02:40 – Yeah, so I think the way that creators need to think
1:02:43 is your job is to create a container
1:02:45 for your community to come in and create.
1:02:48 So because I think in IP, the way that we look at it is
1:02:52 we’ve created projectkaizen, it’s this gigantic sci-fi world
1:02:55 and inside that world, there’s characters and stories
1:02:58 and physics, if you will, rules of the game,
1:03:01 the way that it all works, the conceit of our story
1:03:05 is that everything you’ve ever known is a simulation.
1:03:07 So imagine the matrix, but there’s no real world.
1:03:09 The matrix is the real world.
1:03:10 There’s nothing else.
1:03:14 And in that story, that means that we’re connected
1:03:16 to other dimensions and all that kind of stuff.
1:03:20 And that way, as players spin up their own story lines,
1:03:23 they can be like, oh, we’re from this,
1:03:25 what we call instance, a server instance
1:03:27 or a universe, if you wanna think of it in those terms.
1:03:30 So we’re from this universe, these are our people.
1:03:32 This is what our world looks like
1:03:34 and they can literally build that up as much as they want.
1:03:37 It could be as simple as one little floating island.
1:03:40 It could be all the way to a planet, not yet, but one day.
1:03:43 And them being able to tell their own stories
1:03:46 and then giving the community the ability to say,
1:03:50 hey, this person’s storyline follows all
1:03:52 of your guidelines impact theory.
1:03:56 We love it and want this to be canon in your world.
1:03:59 And so when a story meets certain criteria,
1:04:01 players can vote for it.
1:04:03 And then if we approve it,
1:04:05 then it becomes official canon within our world.
1:04:08 And so our goal is for them, if you know UEFN,
1:04:11 this is what Fortnite’s doing is absolutely brilliant,
1:04:14 giving the players the tools from the game
1:04:17 to build their own sort of mini games inside of it.
1:04:19 And so we’re doing a very similar thing,
1:04:21 much smaller scale compared to Epic,
1:04:23 which is absolutely gigantic.
1:04:24 But I think this is just the future.
1:04:26 I think everybody’s gonna be doing this.
1:04:29 So it’s not like, oh, we’re trying to be some pale shadow
1:04:30 of what Epic is doing.
1:04:33 I just think this is the future in the same way
1:04:35 that if you were gonna launch a video site,
1:04:37 of course you’re gonna let people upload to it.
1:04:38 There would be no other way.
1:04:41 That is our plan now is to give players the ability
1:04:45 to create unique experiences within our container.
1:04:46 – Amazing.
1:04:49 Well, it sounds super fascinating and very exciting.
1:04:51 And I can hear the passion in your voice about it.
1:04:54 Tom, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast.
1:04:56 I was very nervous to time.
1:04:57 I never get nervous.
1:05:00 And I was so nervous in the beginning for some reason.
1:05:03 Like, so I just have looked up to you for a long time.
1:05:04 So I just appreciate your time.
1:05:06 I end the show with two questions
1:05:08 that I ask all of my guests.
1:05:09 And this can just come from your heart.
1:05:12 It doesn’t have to be anything that we talked about today.
1:05:14 What is one actionable thing our young and profitors
1:05:19 can do today to become more profitable tomorrow?
1:05:20 – Always be learning.
1:05:22 Always be learning.
1:05:24 So it should cue off of your goal.
1:05:25 So again, your goals make demands.
1:05:28 But I spend on average two hours a day,
1:05:32 365 days a year every day for the last 15 years,
1:05:34 maybe more, learning.
1:05:37 Be a relentless learning machine.
1:05:38 – Amazing.
1:05:41 And what is your secret to profiting in life?
1:05:44 – So for me, I know that nothing matters more
1:05:46 than reciprocated love.
1:05:49 So I make sure that I put a ton of time
1:05:50 and attention into that.
1:05:52 And then also I manage my biology.
1:05:56 So I get sleep, I eat healthy, I exercise, I work out.
1:05:59 I maintain loving relationships beyond just my wife.
1:06:01 The things are incredibly important.
1:06:03 And then if I can really ground this for people,
1:06:05 guys, you have to learn how business works.
1:06:07 Like business has physics.
1:06:08 And if you really want to get good,
1:06:10 you need to learn those physics.
1:06:13 And they are available for anybody to learn,
1:06:14 anyone to master.
1:06:16 The game is really relatively simple.
1:06:17 Learn it, learn the game.
1:06:19 Do not let yourself get overwhelmed.
1:06:21 Just one piece at a time.
1:06:23 Pick apart the skill set, learn it.
1:06:24 – And when you say physics,
1:06:26 do you mean like sales, marketing, finance,
1:06:28 those kinds of things?
1:06:30 – Yes, and where it interfaces with leadership
1:06:32 and human psychology?
1:06:33 – Yes.
1:06:35 – And where can everybody learn more about you
1:06:37 and everything that you do?
1:06:38 – At Tom Dillew, Across the Socials,
1:06:40 Best Places, Probably YouTube.
1:06:41 – Amazing.
1:06:43 Thank you so much for all of your time.
1:06:44 Really appreciate it.
1:06:46 – Absolutely, thank you.
1:06:48 (upbeat music)
1:06:53 – Well, guys, this was such an important interview for me.
1:06:56 And I was kind of nervous as I think you could tell.
1:07:00 I’ve admired Tom as a leader, as an entrepreneur,
1:07:02 as a podcaster.
1:07:05 I love his brain and the way he approaches the world.
1:07:08 And I’ve just been a fan for so long.
1:07:11 And I consider him to be a podcast king.
1:07:14 And now, even though I’m a podcast princess,
1:07:16 I still have to bow down to the king, you know?
1:07:18 Like I was nervous.
1:07:21 And one of the things that I found most inspiring from today
1:07:23 was his approach to failure.
1:07:26 Tom says he tries to approach failure
1:07:28 in the way that AI might do it
1:07:30 as a pure learning experience.
1:07:32 In other words, you try something new,
1:07:34 you experiment, it works, it doesn’t.
1:07:36 And you go back to the drawing board
1:07:38 with that new knowledge in hand.
1:07:41 There’s no energy wasted on being frustrated
1:07:42 or getting emotional.
1:07:46 And the key ingredient in that process is failure.
1:07:48 Along these lines, Tom also advises us
1:07:51 to distrust our emotions.
1:07:53 Evolution developed emotions to push us
1:07:55 in certain directions that improve our chances
1:07:58 for survival, for having kids.
1:08:01 But those same emotions can be extremely counterproductive
1:08:03 when it comes to achieving our goals.
1:08:05 So if you’re feeling a strong emotion,
1:08:07 then step back and ask yourself
1:08:09 why you are feeling that strong emotion
1:08:13 and whether it’s pushing you in the right direction or not.
1:08:16 Tom also believes that we should work on what we can change.
1:08:19 We all come hardwired to be a certain way,
1:08:20 but there’s still plenty of room
1:08:21 for us to play the cards we’re dealt with
1:08:24 and focus on the things we can change about ourselves
1:08:26 and our circumstances.
1:08:27 For example, one of the things
1:08:30 that we’re most hardwired to be is lazy,
1:08:31 but we can address that.
1:08:33 And one of the best ways to do that
1:08:36 is by tapping into another evolutionary demand
1:08:38 like helping your tribe or your group.
1:08:41 Nothing seems to energize us more
1:08:44 than pursuing a goal that is in service of others.
1:08:47 Thanks for listening to this episode of Young and Profiting.
1:08:50 Are you ready to do something in service of others
1:08:52 that will make you feel good and full of energy?
1:08:54 Do you know somebody who would love to hear
1:08:57 what Tom Billu has to say about failure
1:08:59 or the future of content?
1:09:02 Then why not share this episode with somebody right now?
1:09:04 And if you did enjoy this show and you learned something,
1:09:08 then why not drop us a five-star review on Apple Podcast?
1:09:10 Nothing helps us reach more people
1:09:12 than a good review from you.
1:09:14 And if you prefer to watch your podcast as videos,
1:09:16 you can find us on YouTube,
1:09:17 just look up Young and Profiting
1:09:19 and you’ll find all of our episodes there.
1:09:22 You can also find me on Instagram @yappwithhalla
1:09:24 or LinkedIn by searching my name.
1:09:26 It’s Hala Taha.
1:09:28 And thanks to my incredible YAP team
1:09:29 for helping me put this episode together,
1:09:32 you guys are the absolute best.
1:09:33 This is your host, Hala Taha,
1:09:36 AKA The Podcast Princess, signing off.
1:09:39 (upbeat music)
1:09:41 (upbeat music)
1:09:44 (upbeat music)
1:09:47 (upbeat music)
1:09:57 [BLANK_AUDIO]