Learn. Share. Evolve…

0:00:12 I’m Guy Kawasaki and this is Remarkable People.
0:00:16 We’re on a mission to make you remarkable.
0:00:20 Helping me today is Thor Peterson.
0:00:23 I hope it’s Peterson, not Pedersen.
0:00:28 I should have asked him in an interview but I completely forgot and I cannot definitively
0:00:34 find the answer because all the YouTube videos in which he’s talking, he never says his
0:00:35 last name.
0:00:40 Alas, that is probably not the biggest problem we face in the world.
0:00:43 So let me tell you about Thor.
0:00:45 He is a Danish adventure.
0:00:51 He made history by visiting every country in the world without flying.
0:00:59 His decade-long journey is a testament to human connection and oh my god, the spirit
0:01:01 of exploration.
0:01:09 His blog, Once Upon a Saga, chronicles his adventures across all these countries, oceans,
0:01:10 war zones.
0:01:18 He even got married atop Mount Kenya in 2013 and throughout his travels, Thor engaged with
0:01:25 local communities, shared stories and really fostered cultural unity.
0:01:32 He also shone a light on the critical yet often unseen work of the Red Cross societies.
0:01:39 Thor’s Odyssey demonstrates our world’s deep interconnectedness and it echoes his belief
0:01:43 that a stranger is a friend you’ve never met before.
0:01:52 Join me, Guy Kawasaki, the Remarkable People podcast as we delve into the incredible, remarkable
0:01:59 journey of Thor, Peterson or Pedersen who visited every country in the world without
0:02:07 flying.
0:02:15 My wife is Danish so I’ve had many an evil skiver in my life.
0:02:17 What does that mean?
0:02:20 You don’t know what an evil skiver is?
0:02:21 Maybe I’m saying it wrong.
0:02:27 No, I’m sure you were saying it exactly as supposed to be said but I’m just not from
0:02:31 the US and I speak Danish on a day-to-day basis.
0:02:34 Wait, I’m having an out-of-body experience.
0:02:39 An evil skiver is that thing that’s like little donut pancakes.
0:02:41 That’s a Danish thing.
0:02:44 Okay, now I know what you’re saying.
0:02:47 No, your pronunciation is very good.
0:02:55 It might be a different dialect but where I come from I say evil skiver.
0:02:59 That’s Hawaiian pigeon saying evil skivers.
0:03:02 Yeah, I wasn’t ready for you speaking Danish just yet.
0:03:06 I’m very impressed.
0:03:12 First I want to start way back when and I read that you were the lifeguard at the Royal
0:03:14 Palace.
0:03:16 What the hell kind of job is that?
0:03:18 Tell me about that.
0:03:24 Denmark is a cute little country with a very small population and very old traditions in
0:03:31 some directions at least and within our military service you can get drafted or not and that’s
0:03:36 through a lottery so you put your hand into a box and you pick a number and if the number
0:03:40 is low then you have to do your military service and if the number is high you can
0:03:45 go out and get a job if that’s what you want and my number was really low and then I signed
0:03:50 up for what I thought would be the most interesting branch within the Danish military which is
0:03:57 to stand as a guard in front of the Queen’s Palace and that’s in an olden day outfit so
0:04:02 I think that uniform has not been updated certainly for a very long time.
0:04:07 It’s with the bare skin hat on top of your head and it wouldn’t be good for warfare.
0:04:10 They would spot you a mile away.
0:04:13 It looks nice though.
0:04:19 So you get drafted by the Danish army and they say you can either go fight the Russians
0:04:21 or you can stand in front of the palace.
0:04:23 You get that kind of choice.
0:04:30 So within our military service you can go Air Force, you can go Army, you can go Navy
0:04:36 and then if you feel like it you can do something a little bit more special so that’s actually
0:04:42 a 12 month military service duration which is longer than any of the others but that’s
0:04:46 the kind of country that they’re in lies the problem.
0:04:53 So when I read that in your bio I read Lifeguard when Madison and I or people basically in
0:04:59 California Hawaii when we read Lifeguard we think swimming pool or ocean.
0:05:01 You meant palace guard right?
0:05:03 Yes, it’s a palace guard.
0:05:09 Oh, I thought you were watching the Danish princesses swim for your military duty.
0:05:14 You were picturing Danish bay watch.
0:05:18 So you’re the Danish hassle wharf?
0:05:24 Yes, not as buff as him though.
0:05:32 First serious question is you’ve been all over the world obviously and I want you to
0:05:37 explain because I don’t think many people understand it’s not clear I understand.
0:05:41 What exactly does the Red Cross do around the world?
0:05:47 I’m very happy that you asked me that question because I’ve done a great deal of interviews
0:05:50 and most they skipped directly over that.
0:05:56 I was given the honor of traveling as a goodwill ambassador of the Danish Red Cross which
0:06:02 is the National Society of Denmark and the National Society of the US would be the American
0:06:06 Red Cross and the National Society in Syria would be the Syrian Red Crescent and so on
0:06:12 and so forth and the Red Cross is the world’s largest humanitarian organization and found
0:06:18 in 192 countries around the world so that’s basically every country and my job was to
0:06:24 promote the humanitarian efforts and raise money and awareness.
0:06:31 I donated blood, I shared as much as I possibly could about the Red Cross throughout the entire
0:06:36 journey and if you have any specific questions about the Red Cross then I’m more than happy
0:06:38 to answer them.
0:06:42 So let’s say there’s a tsunami or something.
0:06:45 What does the Red Cross do?
0:06:48 It would very much depend on the country.
0:06:54 So the Red Cross plays an auxiliary role to the government so in some countries the government
0:07:00 might be very strong and there would be less of a need for the Red Cross and in some countries
0:07:04 the Red Cross would take over the entire operation.
0:07:10 So the backbone of the Red Cross would be volunteers and within a tsunami for sure lots
0:07:17 and lots of volunteers would be sent in and they would immediately start to help those
0:07:20 that are affected by the tsunami.
0:07:24 Maybe people, they cannot return to their homes, maybe they need a hotel, maybe they
0:07:31 need a shelter, they would set up shelters, they would hand out food and blankets, clothing,
0:07:37 sanitary pads, toothbrushes, soap, anything that you can imagine to get people back on
0:07:38 their feet.
0:07:44 In some cases the Red Cross might contact your employer on your behalf and explain to your
0:07:49 employer that your life has been destroyed because you might be dealing with trauma or
0:07:54 something else and they might have arrangements with hotels and they would set you up and
0:07:57 they would contact insurance and help you.
0:08:02 The Red Cross is there in place to help people and the level of the Red Cross engagement
0:08:05 really depends on the country.
0:08:12 And let’s suppose that you’re with the Danish Red Cross and you’re sitting in, I don’t know,
0:08:17 Copenhagen and you’re drinking beer and then there’s a tsunami in Indonesia.
0:08:18 So what?
0:08:24 Does your phone ring and they say Thor get on a plane, we got to go to Indonesia, how
0:08:26 does it work?
0:08:32 That could happen actually because I was trained to be within the ERU, I was a logistics delegate
0:08:33 within the ERU.
0:08:37 The ERU is the emergency response unit.
0:08:42 So that’s a team of specialists that are trained to be deployed on short notice.
0:08:43 So that could very well happen.
0:08:51 Then I would get deployed along with some doctors, some engineers, some technicians, some nurses
0:08:58 probably and then we would set up camp near the area in Indonesia and then we would go
0:09:04 to work immediately rebuilding the country and supporting the national society of Indonesia.
0:09:10 In that case, the Danish Red Cross would be a PNS which is a participating national society.
0:09:14 But the more likely scenario I would imagine is that the Danish Red Cross would immediately
0:09:20 start raising funds within Denmark and then all these funds would be directed to Indonesia.
0:09:28 And who decides whether it’s the American Red Cross or the Danish Red Cross or the Finnish
0:09:31 Red Cross, who gets involved?
0:09:35 Does the people in Thailand say, let’s call our buddies in Denmark or let’s call our
0:09:39 buddies in New York, who gets the call?
0:09:41 Yeah, that’s another good question.
0:09:47 So the way it works is that if national society is not strong enough to handle the emergency
0:09:51 on its own, then it would put out an appeal.
0:09:56 And then participating national societies, PNS’s, they will answer that appeal.
0:10:01 So it might be whoever’s already within the country, it might be that in Indonesia, that
0:10:03 the American Red Cross is already there operating.
0:10:10 And then it’s easy for them to deploy or redirect some of their efforts to the tsunami.
0:10:14 It could also be that you would have a country traveling across half the planet to go and
0:10:15 help and assist.
0:10:20 So within the Red Cross, you have the IFRC, the International Federation of the Red Cross,
0:10:24 which is headquartered in Geneva in Switzerland.
0:10:27 And they help coordinate in these cases.
0:10:34 So when this appeal is raised, then the IFRC would probably reach out and find appropriate
0:10:37 national societies to go in and help and support.
0:10:39 And the IFRC also has its own funds.
0:10:46 Okay, you about quintupled my knowledge of how the Red Cross works in the last 60 seconds.
0:10:47 Okay.
0:10:49 Plus, I can tell you a fun fact.
0:10:56 If I wanted to pursue a Guinness World Record within the Red Cross, then I could probably
0:11:01 be awarded the one person on this planet who has visited the Red Cross in the most amount
0:11:07 of countries, because I did visit the Red Cross in 198 countries around the world throughout
0:11:08 this journey.
0:11:09 Wow.
0:11:11 So that’s a good segue.
0:11:14 So explain what you did.
0:11:15 Yes.
0:11:22 So back in 2013, I found out that no one in history had gone to every country in the world
0:11:24 completely without flying.
0:11:27 And that basically infected me.
0:11:31 I just couldn’t shake the idea when it grew and it grew within me.
0:11:36 And I spoke to friends and I spoke to family and no one I spoke to had the same interest
0:11:38 within the topic as I did.
0:11:43 But I was smitten and I eventually started planning.
0:11:45 There was a wonderful woman within my life.
0:11:48 I’m happy to say that today she’s my wife.
0:11:52 But back then she was my girlfriend and we had a talk about how long we thought this
0:11:53 would take.
0:11:54 And I planned it out.
0:12:00 I did the logistics, I raised the funds for it, partnered up with companies and set out
0:12:07 on the 10th of October 2013 at 10.10 am thinking it would take four years to visit every country
0:12:10 in the world completely without flying.
0:12:14 And it got very complicated, very fast.
0:12:15 And sometimes it was easy.
0:12:16 Sometimes it was hard.
0:12:22 It was by far the biggest ordeal I’ve ever had within my lifetime.
0:12:28 It ended up taking nine years, nine months and 16 days in part because of the global
0:12:34 pandemic, in part because conflict and strife broke out in certain countries and regions,
0:12:40 in part because I was sick, in part because of the Ebola epidemic, which I think most
0:12:45 people might have forgotten somewhere behind the global pandemic.
0:12:48 But yeah, I was delayed in many places around the world.
0:12:56 And when you were stuck in Hong Kong for two years, what did you do in Hong Kong for two
0:12:57 years?
0:12:58 Yeah.
0:13:04 So, I didn’t know it was going to be two years.
0:13:09 When the virus broke out in Wuhan, I was on board a container ship heading towards Hong
0:13:10 Kong.
0:13:14 And I was blissfully unaware about the outbreak.
0:13:17 And then when we reached Hong Kong, I went up on the bridge and I was standing next to
0:13:18 the captain.
0:13:21 And I saw the captain was wearing a face mask.
0:13:24 And I look at him and I asked what’s going on and he handed me a face mask and he said,
0:13:28 “You better put this on, there’s been a virus outbreak in Wuhan.”
0:13:29 And I say, “Okay.”
0:13:30 So, what’s Wuhan?
0:13:32 And he says, “That’s the city in China.”
0:13:35 And I say, “Okay, how far away is that?”
0:13:37 And he says, “That’s more than a thousand kilometers away.”
0:13:42 I’m sorry, you might have to calculate in two miles on that.
0:13:44 But so, it’s really far away.
0:13:49 And I figured, I think most people would, that would never have anything to do with me.
0:13:53 That would be a local incident in the city, very far away from where I was.
0:13:58 And I entered Hong Kong where I was supposed to be for four days, just for transit between
0:13:59 two ships.
0:14:03 And then eventually, those four days were extended to 11.
0:14:08 And then eventually, countries started closing their borders and I couldn’t get on board
0:14:09 ships.
0:14:12 And then I was in Hong Kong for a duration unknown.
0:14:16 And what I did was network, and I networked and I was shaking hands and meeting people
0:14:22 and sending emails and calling, trying to find out who could help me on a ship and get
0:14:24 me to the next country.
0:14:30 And after a good 11 months of networking, Hong Kong immigration said that I had to get
0:14:36 a job or get married to someone in Hong Kong or start studying, but I couldn’t keep extending
0:14:37 my visa.
0:14:40 So I got a job and I worked for the Danish Siemens Church.
0:14:44 I was an assistant servicing container ships and seafarers.
0:14:45 They couldn’t leave the ships.
0:14:47 They were quarantined on board the ships.
0:14:51 So I could go shopping in Hong Kong for anything they needed and bring it to the ships.
0:14:54 I could also help and support the Danish community in Hong Kong.
0:14:59 There’s a bit more than a handful of Danish people, about 300 Danish people living in Hong
0:15:00 Kong.
0:15:03 And they were missing all sorts of Danish delicacies.
0:15:07 So I imported that and I was selling it out of the church to fund the activities.
0:15:11 And I did a lot of hiking, Hong Kong is 75% nature.
0:15:17 So I took to the mountains to get some fresh air and taken the view of the beautiful territory,
0:15:18 which is Hong Kong.
0:15:22 Yeah, I made a lot of good friends, a lot of collaborations, I’ve done many interviews
0:15:23 while in Hong Kong.
0:15:30 Suddenly press started taking interest in this man who was only nine countries from becoming
0:15:36 the first to reach every country in the world without flying, now stuck because of the pandemic.
0:15:44 And during these two years, but also all nine years, where is your fiance, girlfriend, wife?
0:15:47 Yeah, that’s the right order, actually.
0:15:52 When I left, she was my girlfriend, and she came out and visited me several times.
0:15:54 And on her 10th visit, she came to Kenya.
0:15:58 And I brought her up on top of Mount Kenya, which is the second highest mountain within
0:15:59 all of Africa.
0:16:04 And I got down on one knee, and I gave her a ring and asked her a question.
0:16:06 And she said, yes.
0:16:10 So beyond that, we were engaged and we thought we would have a nice wedding somewhere in
0:16:11 the world.
0:16:13 And then the global pandemic broke out.
0:16:19 And in order of having her come and visit me inside Hong Kong, was very tightly closed.
0:16:20 We had to be married.
0:16:25 And how do you get married when one person is in Hong Kong and the other one is in Denmark?
0:16:31 It just turns out that the USA came to the rescue that in Utah, you have an agency that
0:16:37 marries people online, so we were able to have an online wedding.
0:16:39 And that was good enough for Hong Kong.
0:16:43 And then we could arrange and she came to Hong Kong and hotel quarantine for three weeks.
0:16:48 And then on the other side of that, we were together for about 100 days in Hong Kong.
0:16:53 But Denmark didn’t accept this online wedding.
0:16:59 So at a later point, when she came to visit me in Vanuatu, we got married on the beach.
0:17:03 And what happened was that a German woman living in Vanuatu was helping us and she was
0:17:08 supposed to process this wedding with the government, with the registry.
0:17:13 And unfortunately, the government in Vanuatu was attacked by hackers.
0:17:18 So there was a ransomware attack and all their data was locked and they couldn’t move anything.
0:17:20 And it’s very close to a year now.
0:17:25 And we’re still not officially married in Vanuatu, so we can’t process the paperwork
0:17:26 in Denmark.
0:17:32 But we do know that we’re married in Utah, in Hong Kong, and in Vanuatu.
0:17:46 This organization in Utah.
0:17:48 Was it the Mormon Church?
0:17:50 No, that was my first thought as well.
0:17:56 I think that was my primary reference to Utah back in the day.
0:17:59 But now I know that they’re a bit of a Las Vegas organization.
0:18:01 And I don’t understand.
0:18:06 So you do this for 10 years or something.
0:18:11 Are you using the money that you raise from sponsors?
0:18:15 Or are you working in these countries?
0:18:18 How does it…
0:18:21 It turned into a big mix over time.
0:18:25 But initially, my thinking was that I wasn’t going to set out and do a thing like this
0:18:29 unless I could have the finances covered.
0:18:33 I was 34 years old when I left home, and I thought it would take four years.
0:18:37 So I didn’t want to come home as a 38-year-old and be in debt.
0:18:43 And some friends and I, we thought that there had to be a company out there that would take
0:18:46 interest in something of this magnitude.
0:18:51 And we were able to find a company that focuses on geothermal energy.
0:18:53 And they are called Ross Energy.
0:18:59 And they decided to fund the 20 US dollars per day, which was set as an average.
0:19:02 20 US dollars per day?
0:19:05 Two cappuccinos!
0:19:10 Yeah, in some countries, it’s two cappuccinos.
0:19:15 In other countries, it’s accommodation, a meal, and transportation.
0:19:17 So worked as an average.
0:19:20 And yes, it’s $20 a day for almost 10 years.
0:19:25 But what happened was a couple of years into the project, oil prices were real low.
0:19:28 And Ross Energy, they were hurting from that.
0:19:30 So they had to pull the sponsorship.
0:19:35 Then I started spending my own money until I had nothing left.
0:19:40 And then I did some crowdfunding campaigns, and I gained a little bit of finance that
0:19:41 way.
0:19:44 And I sold some articles, I did some speaking engagements.
0:19:47 And then when I got to Hong Kong, I was able to make some money back working at the Danish
0:19:48 Siemens Church.
0:19:52 And then eventually, Ross Engineering was strong again, and they were able to come back
0:19:53 on again.
0:19:59 So it’s been a mix of my personal funds and donations and corporate sponsorship.
0:20:00 Wow.
0:20:07 And literally, were you carrying cash, or was it like an ATM card or Apple Pay?
0:20:11 How did you literally spend the money?
0:20:12 All of the above.
0:20:20 So I would always have US dollar because it’s a universal currency that you can use in any
0:20:21 tough spot around the world.
0:20:25 I would also always have a Euro on me.
0:20:29 So Euro and US dollars, I would have that tucked away somewhere.
0:20:34 And then I would have a Mastercard and a Visa card, which I could use around the world.
0:20:42 And then somewhere between 2013 and now 2023, the world kept on developing.
0:20:47 And more and more countries would have access where you could use Apple Pay.
0:20:50 By the end of the project, I wasn’t using cash anywhere.
0:20:53 I was just tapping my phone.
0:21:08 And do you know what your wife’s parents’ opinion was of this son-in-law doing this?
0:21:10 Unfortunately, not.
0:21:13 My wife no longer has her parents.
0:21:16 She lost them before we got married.
0:21:22 But I do know that her friends and the friends of her parents and extended family, they pretty
0:21:24 much all thought I was crazy.
0:21:29 I think very few people didn’t think that I was crazy to do this.
0:21:33 And even the ones that saw a little bit of light in what I was doing, that I was chasing
0:21:39 a difficult goal or that I was inspiring and motivating people around the world or that
0:21:43 I was trying to look for the positive to promote every country around the world or raising
0:21:45 funds and awareness for the Red Cross.
0:21:50 Even the people that could see some sanity within that, they saw absolutely no sanity
0:21:58 in hanging out in Hong Kong as the sand ran through the sand glass.
0:22:04 Now when you say most people thought you’re crazy, there’s two kinds of crazy, right?
0:22:07 There’s, oh my God, he’s crazy.
0:22:09 And there’s, oh my God, he’s crazy.
0:22:10 He’s an idiot.
0:22:14 Was it like the negative kind or the funny humorous kind?
0:22:20 Since you’re asking me, I would say that I’m the good crazy.
0:22:25 But pretty sure that plenty of people out there think it’s irresponsible that I should
0:22:30 have taken a job, I should have started a family, I should have contributed to society
0:22:32 in other ways.
0:22:37 And today I have about a quarter of a million followers online that are very supportive of
0:22:40 what I’ve done and are lovely.
0:22:44 So it really depends on who you ask.
0:22:50 We recently interviewed a woman who walked across the U.S. and she had similar things
0:22:51 to say.
0:22:53 Different strokes were different folks, right?
0:22:56 Yeah, absolutely, that’s a good way to put it.
0:23:03 I’ll tell you this, when I left in 2013 and when I reached 2015, two years in, I couldn’t
0:23:04 take it anymore.
0:23:09 I was recovering from cerebral malaria, I had lost the financial backing, the long distance
0:23:14 relationship to my then girlfriend, it wasn’t going well, we were really struggling.
0:23:20 I wasn’t getting the sleep I needed, malnutrition, mentally and physically, I just couldn’t cope
0:23:21 with it anymore.
0:23:24 Going out of a bag, going from a bus to a train, trying to deal with the bureaucracy,
0:23:30 I’ve been held at gunpoint, several of the ships that I traveled with had sank to the
0:23:32 bottom of the ocean by then.
0:23:40 There was a great deal of racism towards me in Central Africa, more than likely due to
0:23:42 hundreds of years of colonialism.
0:23:45 I really couldn’t take it anymore.
0:23:49 And at some point I just decided the system wasn’t going to beat me and I was going to
0:23:53 find a way and I was going to prove everyone wrong, everyone who said that I couldn’t get
0:23:57 the next visa or I couldn’t enter the next country, I wanted to prove them wrong.
0:24:03 And I kept fighting for it, but since 2015 I’ve always wanted to go home.
0:24:08 And I thought the final country was just around the corner, eventually it would get a bit
0:24:11 smoother, I’d have the support, I’d have the backing, it was just around the corner.
0:24:20 So imagine pushing since 2015 and only setting foot back home in 2023.
0:24:25 Didn’t you fly home twice and then fly back to where you flew from?
0:24:26 No.
0:24:36 So I left home on the 10th of October 2013 and I returned home on the 26th of July 2023
0:24:39 and in between I didn’t fly at any one point.
0:24:44 I didn’t return home and I spent more than 24 hours in every country around the world.
0:24:51 Oh, some place I read you had to fly to the UK twice for something, no?
0:24:57 I think you’re confusing me with a British gentleman, his name is Graham Hughes, he’s
0:25:04 from Liverpool and he attempted to visit every country in the world without flying prior
0:25:05 to me.
0:25:12 I think he must have started out in 2008 or 2009 and he had to fly back home several
0:25:13 times.
0:25:16 He also flew on holiday in Australia.
0:25:20 He spent four years and 31 days completing his project.
0:25:27 I met the guy, he’s a really nice guy, I met him in Panama, he’s good crazy too.
0:25:35 I read a report recently that said that of the 200 countries in the world, you can say
0:25:39 safely drink tap water in only 50 of them.
0:25:43 Now, did you find that to be true?
0:25:49 Did you drink tap water everywhere and get sick all the time or how does water work around
0:25:50 the world?
0:25:57 I can tell you this, I went to every country, every beautiful island nation within the Caribbean
0:26:01 and I believe that most of them told me that they have the purest drinking water in the
0:26:02 world.
0:26:08 So, you talk to locals and locals will say it’s fine because they’ve been living there
0:26:16 for their entire life and their bodies and their immune system got used to the water
0:26:20 and bacteria and this kind of stuff and you come as a foreigner and you might have to run
0:26:24 to the toilet for a few days but then in many cases, your stomach, your system will also
0:26:26 get ready for it.
0:26:32 I really wouldn’t recommend drinking tap water all around the world if it’s 50 countries
0:26:33 around the world.
0:26:35 I don’t know, that might be true.
0:26:43 I traveled with a water purification kit, a bottle called Life Saver and at a later
0:26:49 point I had a filter, a soft flask from Salomon that had a filter within that too and I just
0:26:53 made sure to filter all my water all around the world.
0:26:57 I say throughout all of Africa, if you can get to a borehole and you get water straight
0:27:01 from the underground, there’s no issue, you can just drink that.
0:27:06 If it comes from, let’s say, 100 feet below or something like that, no issues.
0:27:08 Wow.
0:27:13 So those filter things, I see them at REI, they really work.
0:27:21 Yeah, they must because here I am talking to you, I still have all my teeth and my liver
0:27:25 is functioning.
0:27:32 What’s the hairiest story you have about trying to clear customs into a country?
0:27:39 Trying to clear customs, that might have been between Ethiopia and Somalia, where they were
0:27:44 chewing cat, which is a leaf, a green leaf that you chew.
0:27:46 It’s a drug, basically, from nature.
0:27:50 You look at these people who are chewing cat and it looks like they had 40 cups of coffee
0:27:51 or something like that.
0:27:57 They seemed quite tense and they looked at me and they started taking my bags apart and
0:28:01 they found I had a GPS, which I was using to plot my route around the world and they
0:28:05 said that was military equipment and I said it was not.
0:28:10 They found a couple of knives, which I was traveling with and basically I have them to
0:28:14 cut rope or cut an apple or something.
0:28:18 But again, they looked at it and said that was military equipment and they got real suspicious,
0:28:23 real fast and they just took everything apart and then they guided me away from the road
0:28:29 and over to sit with some officers and they were sitting there chewing cat and they told
0:28:33 me to sit down next to them and I was sitting there in the shade, sitting next to them just
0:28:39 wondering what’s going to happen now and after 45 minutes they said okay, you’re good to
0:28:43 go and I just got up and I packed my bags again and I left.
0:28:51 I’d say the hairiest situation that I experienced wasn’t necessarily with customs.
0:28:56 It would have been a checkpoint in the middle of a jungle, in the middle of the night in
0:29:02 Central Africa and I’d been driving, just me and a taxi driver, we were driving throughout
0:29:06 the night and we got to these guys and they stopped the vehicle, there were three of them
0:29:12 and they were drunk out of their mind and they were armed to their teeth and they were
0:29:17 vicious and from the moment I stepped out the vehicle, I was commanded out of the vehicle
0:29:22 at gunpoint and from the moment I got out of the vehicle and they saw that I wasn’t
0:29:29 a local person but I was a North European, you could just feel the hate, you could absolutely
0:29:39 feel hate coming out of their eyes and the rage that from these men, they just had it
0:29:48 in for me and that was definitely the hairiest situation, being at gunpoint by angry, emotional,
0:29:57 highly drunk adults, that was terrifying and I was there for a good 45 minutes before,
0:30:01 for some reason one or the other and I’m not sure I understand why, they just let me go,
0:30:06 they let me and the driver go and the only thing I could do in this situation was try
0:30:14 to stay as calm as possible, no quick movements, be as compliant as I possibly could, agree
0:30:20 with them, anything hateful they would say about me, just agree with them but yeah, eventually
0:30:21 I got out of it.
0:30:25 And all of this is happening in English?
0:30:31 This is happening in broken French, I was doing my very best to survive with whatever
0:30:34 little French I know.
0:30:43 Wow, okay, so now let’s say step me through what happens, by the grace of God somehow
0:30:50 you get through customs and immigration, so now you’re in the country, do you go and
0:30:56 walk around, meet people or you just?
0:31:02 You always meet people, you always meet people, you meet people on one side of the border,
0:31:06 going through the border on the other side of the border and the buses and the trains,
0:31:11 this is a people project, this was not a country project, this was all about people all around
0:31:18 the world, people, cultures, handshakes, kindness, generosity, people are just amazing, I set
0:31:24 out with a motto when I left home which was a stranger is a friend you’ve never met before
0:31:31 and I thought it was a really nice motto but it wasn’t in any way proven and I probably
0:31:38 traveled for a couple of weeks before I had several stories that confirmed that little
0:31:43 a stranger is a friend you never met before, eventually I started saying people are just
0:31:48 people because this is what I believe, it doesn’t matter political affiliation or the
0:31:53 color of people’s eyes or which God they pray to or if they don’t pray to a God at
0:31:57 all or if they have children or not, if they’re working or unemployed, people are just people
0:32:03 all around the world and people are driven by much of the same, they dance to pretty
0:32:07 much the same songs, the same songs get trendy all around the world at the same time, they
0:32:15 watch the same TV shows, Netflix, they play the same games on their phones, they like barbecues,
0:32:18 they fall in love, they get married, they go to school, they go to work, people are just
0:32:23 people all around the world, so my standard operating procedure as someone once called
0:32:33 it my SOP would be to get a SIM card as fast as possible, this isn’t 1845, we’re living
0:32:36 in a world where one of the most important tools you can have when you’re traveling
0:32:42 is your smartphone and if you’re online then you have access to hotel bookings, communication,
0:32:46 you can call people, you have online maps, you have everything you need right there in
0:32:51 your hand, so I’d make my way to wherever I was going to spend the night often I would
0:32:54 have that pre-booked, sometimes I would work it out, sometimes I would just talk to someone
0:32:59 on the bus and they would bring me home with them and give me a couch to sleep on or a
0:33:04 guest bed, and then I would locate the Red Cross, I’d go and meet with the Red Cross,
0:33:09 and often I would be invited to do a speaking engagement somewhere at a school or a company,
0:33:14 I would have to apply for visas and various documents, invitation letters, sometimes I
0:33:19 would need to get new vaccines, yeah what else was going on, if I had any time left
0:33:23 for myself, I was blogging, I was updating social media, I was doing stuff like that,
0:33:28 if I had any time left for myself I would try to go to a national museum and see how
0:33:32 much I could learn about the country just sucking in information from the national
0:33:39 museum or if there’s a beautiful waterfall or a temple or anything nearby that I could
0:33:42 visit then I would go and see that.
0:33:53 And if I do the math, let’s say 10 years, that’s 3,650 days divided by 200 countries,
0:33:59 so you know on average you would have spent a couple weeks in each country, is that enough
0:34:03 to learn about a people in two weeks?
0:34:08 No, absolutely not, there’s less than 300 people who have gone to every country in the
0:34:15 world at this point and I would be surprised if any of those would sit down and say I have
0:34:17 seen the entire world.
0:34:21 In everybody’s case except me, they were flying so a lot of the time they would be looking
0:34:26 down at the planet from high above, even me being on the ground or being across the surface
0:34:32 of the ocean or a lake, you have to imagine a red line being drawn through a country.
0:34:39 So let’s say the US for a second, I came from Canada and then I entered through to Buffalo
0:34:44 and from Buffalo I made my way to Washington DC and from Washington DC I got on a train
0:34:49 and I went up to Chicago and from Chicago I went across the Mississippi River and the
0:34:54 Rocky Mountains and I made my way down to California and from California I headed into
0:34:55 Mexico.
0:35:00 Then at a later point I came back to the US from the Bahamas on a ferry and I entered
0:35:05 Fort Lauderdale I think it was and then so I’m in Florida and then I’m heading up north,
0:35:07 up to Norfolk.
0:35:14 So I visited 16 or 17 states within the US but in reality I’m just drawing this thin
0:35:20 red line wherever my bus or my train takes me and if I’m lucky I can maybe see a couple
0:35:25 of miles out the window so I’m really not seeing a lot.
0:35:29 But then at the same time I would say that imagine buying your first car, you don’t know
0:35:33 what you’re doing, you probably see if there’s a steering wheel and if there are four wheels
0:35:35 on it then you’re happy.
0:35:39 But if you’re buying your second car or your third car or your fourth car then you start
0:35:43 to know what to look for, you learn from your mistakes, you learn more and more.
0:35:48 So by the time you’re buying your 10th car or your 20th car you do not need to spend
0:35:52 as much time in order to understand the conditions of that car.
0:35:56 You bring all the knowledge from all the other cars that you purchased throughout your life.
0:36:02 So imagine me going to 10 countries, 20 countries, 50 countries, 100 countries.
0:36:09 At some point you start removing all the noise, the stuff that people get dazzled by when
0:36:14 they enter a new country and you start to see specifics, you start to see are there
0:36:18 sidewalks or not, you start to see what kind of clothes people are wearing, are they wearing
0:36:24 shoes or not, or is public transportation, does it look good, does it go frequently,
0:36:28 does the health care system look like, what does this and that look like, you can start
0:36:33 to pinpoint what kind of country you’re in, you get adapt to understanding your environment
0:36:39 faster and faster as you get further and further down this tunnel of countries.
0:36:41 Up next on Remarkable People.
0:36:46 I’ve been to every country in the world that has war and what I found was that yes there
0:36:53 is hardship but not for everyone and what you find more than anything you will find
0:36:57 ordinary people living relatively ordinary lives.
0:37:02 They like music and dancing and food and family and they don’t like the rain too much and
0:37:05 they don’t like getting stuck in traffic.
0:37:11 People being people everywhere around the world.
0:37:15 Become a little more remarkable with each episode of Remarkable People.
0:37:21 It’s found on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
0:37:25 Welcome back to Remarkable People with Guy Kawasaki.
0:37:34 Arguably, you may be one of the top 300 people in the world to give advice on how to really
0:37:36 visit a new place.
0:37:39 Yeah, I don’t know.
0:37:41 I’m happy to give advice.
0:37:45 My advice is, so I’m an avid hiker.
0:37:51 I enjoy hiking and within the world of hiking, there’s the hiker’s creed.
0:37:55 And I do not know it word by word but I can paraphrase and the hiker’s creed would be
0:38:01 something along the line of that you should leave nothing behind but your footprints.
0:38:06 And I think we should take the hiker’s creed and bring it into the world of travelers.
0:38:11 So when you go somewhere, if you go on a business trip or you go on a holiday or you go for
0:38:17 one reason or the other, then remember leave nothing behind but your footprints.
0:38:20 Try to be as invisible as you possibly can.
0:38:23 Try to be a sponge when you go into a new environment.
0:38:27 Try to suck up everything you possibly can.
0:38:30 What are they eating and try to taste the food and what do they look like?
0:38:31 How do they dress?
0:38:38 What the bicycles, scooters, the cars, the fields, the buildings, the cities, the shops,
0:38:39 just suck it all up.
0:38:44 Learn as much as you possibly can about the culture and the history.
0:38:46 See if you can learn a little bit of the language.
0:38:50 Use it every time you possibly can because people love it.
0:38:54 If you can just say two or three words within a foreign language, people they love that
0:38:55 you try.
0:38:57 No one expects you to speak the full language.
0:39:00 Just give it a go.
0:39:05 And I want people who travel to remember and this is very important.
0:39:10 They have to remember that as soon as you leave your home, you become a guest.
0:39:13 So even just going over to your neighbor’s house, you’re a guest.
0:39:17 And especially if you go to someone else’s country, you’re a guest.
0:39:21 So you’re not supposed to come there and be opinionated and tell them how things are
0:39:25 done better, where you come from or they’re doing things wrong and you’re supposed to
0:39:29 come and be polite and you’re supposed to compliment people and you’re supposed to look
0:39:30 for the good and for the positive.
0:39:35 You’re not supposed to go somewhere and tear it apart.
0:39:36 Wow.
0:39:46 Okay, in these 10 years, what did you learn about yourself?
0:39:48 That’s a brilliant question.
0:39:54 I pushed my own personal borders in so many different directions.
0:40:00 I generally think that you can measure age in two different ways.
0:40:05 The conventional way is to look at the date that you were born and then look at the calendar
0:40:09 and then calculate how old is this person.
0:40:15 But we regularly experience that some people, in spite of their age, seem much older.
0:40:19 And I think that the way that works is life experience.
0:40:25 So generally, you get life experience as you age, so slowly from 10 to 20 years to 30
0:40:32 to 40 to 50 to 60 and beyond, and you would expect a certain life knowledge and life experience
0:40:37 from someone who’s 50 and from someone who’s 70 and from someone who’s a hundred.
0:40:39 But where does that life experience really come from?
0:40:43 How do you get on the fast track of life experience?
0:40:48 And I can’t help to wonder, that happens when we are challenged.
0:40:49 And where are you challenged?
0:40:53 You’re typically challenged when you’re brought out of your own environment where you know
0:40:58 everything and then put into a different environment where you have to work out, how do I get a
0:41:02 SIM card here or how do I activate it?
0:41:03 How do you get a bus ticket?
0:41:07 You buy the bus ticket online, do you do it from a window, do you do it on the bus?
0:41:11 You show up and you know nothing and you have to learn everything.
0:41:14 Then you accelerate within life experience.
0:41:21 So I wonder, I left home when I was 34 and according to the calendar, I’m 44 now.
0:41:28 But I wonder if I’m somehow much, much older than that on account of having built up much
0:41:33 more than 10 years of life experience within the duration of 10 years.
0:41:38 So that’s something that I’m still reflecting upon.
0:41:42 What do you do after you come back from such an adventure?
0:41:49 Luckily my wife is still around and we’re building a life together and that’s good fun.
0:41:51 And we’ve gotten to know each other really well.
0:41:57 She came out to visit me 27 times across the world and we were together ahead of this project.
0:42:00 And now we’re living together for the first time.
0:42:02 So that’s a really interesting adventure.
0:42:04 I have a book coming out next year.
0:42:07 I have a documentary coming out next year.
0:42:09 I’m doing speaking engagements.
0:42:17 I’m invited to events and to companies and whoever wants to listen to me is speaking.
0:42:23 Then we negotiate a price and I show up and I talk about these adventures and share about
0:42:25 culture and the world.
0:42:28 So that’s what’s going on right now and that’s what it looks like.
0:42:31 I have this adjustment period, which I’m still within.
0:42:37 I’ve been home for just about three months now from something that took almost 10 years.
0:42:42 And you can imagine that the soldiers that we deploy overseas, when they come back home,
0:42:45 some of them need some time to settle in.
0:42:47 They’ve been in a stressful environment.
0:42:52 They’ve been in a foreign culture and I’ve been in every foreign culture and I’ve been
0:42:55 in a stressful environment for a very long time.
0:43:01 I don’t know how long it will take me to reenter society, certainly a lot more than these three
0:43:03 months that have passed.
0:43:04 Wow.
0:43:05 Wow.
0:43:13 Can you offer an opinion on where the happiest people in the world are?
0:43:18 I was listening to a podcast just yesterday and they were talking to the happiest person
0:43:20 in the happiest country.
0:43:26 And so the happiest country right now, according to some lists, is Finland.
0:43:32 And they found one person who gave the honor of being the happiest person within the happiest
0:43:33 country.
0:43:36 And that did sound like a very happy person.
0:43:40 But it’s an interesting thing because these Scandinavian countries in Northern Europe,
0:43:45 they often rank within the top four or five happiest countries in the world.
0:43:51 And then I was in the Pacific and I was in Vanuatu and in Vanuatu, they claim to be the
0:43:53 happiest country in the world.
0:43:57 And I said, hang on a minute, I thought that was in Scandinavia and I do some research
0:44:02 and I talk to some people and I found out that there are different lists, there are different
0:44:05 ways of ranking happiness.
0:44:11 And in some ways, in Vanuatu, they dance a lot, they’re very social, they enjoy music,
0:44:12 good food.
0:44:17 It feels like everybody knows everybody and they seem really happy.
0:44:25 Okay, because you have first-hand experience in 200 countries, I’d be very interested to
0:44:31 know what sources of news you trust.
0:44:36 Yeah, I have a little bit of difficulties with that.
0:44:44 I have found that whichever news media is reporting, maybe they send out a journalist
0:44:46 and a cameraman somewhere.
0:44:52 And the cameraman, he has his camera focused and pointing at the worst thing within the
0:44:53 vicinity of the camera.
0:45:01 So it might be a fire or a dead body or some sort of destruction or chaos or who knows what.
0:45:05 And in my experience, the cameraman is usually safe.
0:45:09 And what goes on behind the camera might be relatively normal.
0:45:14 So while the camera is pointing at absolute chaos, when you look behind the camera, often
0:45:20 you’ll find the taxis are driving, markets are open, school children are walking about.
0:45:28 So I have this connection from general media where I feel that these stories that are being
0:45:29 covered are important.
0:45:34 We need to know about the corruption and about the wars and the conflicts and the tsunamis
0:45:37 and the diseases and the list goes on.
0:45:38 We need to know about this.
0:45:45 But if this is the only thing that we hear about, then that will start to paint a picture
0:45:51 of a world that’s falling apart and that there’s nothing good left within the world.
0:45:53 And that’s simply not true.
0:45:58 I’ve been to every country in the world that has conflict areas, I’ve been to every country
0:46:00 in the world that has war.
0:46:05 And what I found was that, yes, there is hardship, but not for everyone.
0:46:12 And what you find more than anything, you will find ordinary people living relatively ordinary
0:46:13 lives.
0:46:18 They like music and dancing and food and family and they don’t like the rain too much and
0:46:20 they don’t like getting stuck in traffic.
0:46:23 People being people everywhere around the world.
0:46:25 So which news do I trust?
0:46:27 There’s nothing that’s really perfect.
0:46:29 I listened to BBC.
0:46:34 I listened to the BBC World podcast of BBC World News.
0:46:35 They broadcast twice daily.
0:46:40 And I think it’s a good update to understand what’s going around the world, but they’re
0:46:45 not covering everything and they’re slightly biased, let’s say all media is biased.
0:46:49 I think maybe BBC is less biased than others.
0:46:55 A real tactical question, vis-a-vis equipment.
0:47:03 I would love to know your sort of recommendations for shoes, phone, camera, computer.
0:47:05 Are you like Mr. R.E.I.?
0:47:07 Are you Mr. North Face?
0:47:10 Are you wearing alpaca jackets?
0:47:15 What’s the real tactics of equipping yourself to do this?
0:47:20 Or it’s all bullshit and you don’t need Gore-Tex to travel around the world.
0:47:23 Yeah, it’s probably the latter.
0:47:24 It’s all bullshit.
0:47:26 You need Gore-Tex to travel around the world.
0:47:28 I’m on Team Salomon.
0:47:29 That was a coincidence.
0:47:35 I went into a store in Denmark three days before leaving home and I said I needed some versatile
0:47:39 footwear, something that would hold up when it was warm, when it was cold, when it was
0:47:41 wet, when it was dry.
0:47:48 And the salesperson handed me a pair of Salomon shoes and they fit and I left home with those.
0:47:53 And then once I wore those out, I replaced them with a new set of Salomon’s.
0:47:56 And when I wore those out, a new set.
0:48:01 And then I started contacting Salomon and saying, “Look, guys, look at me.
0:48:05 I’m traveling every country in the world in your footwear.”
0:48:10 And when I reached about 170 countries, they teamed up with me and I became a brand ambassador
0:48:11 of Salomon.
0:48:17 I ended up visiting every country in the world only in their footwear.
0:48:21 Equipment breaks and it can be replaced and there’s a lot of good equipment, there are
0:48:23 a lot of good brands out there.
0:48:28 I generally think that if you’re traveling on a low budget and if you’re not hiring
0:48:32 guards and fixers everywhere and you’re on your own, then you don’t want to look too
0:48:39 flashy because you don’t want to make yourself a mark for those who have less than for those
0:48:40 who are desperate.
0:48:45 I try not to look my best always.
0:48:50 That doesn’t mean I go for the homeless look, but I just like when things are a little bit
0:48:56 worn and not too shiny and not wearing a wristwatch and stuff like that.
0:49:03 I left home with an iPhone and I was actually an Android person ahead of this project, but
0:49:08 I dropped my phone and broke it and I decided to replace it with the newest iPhone on the
0:49:15 market in 2013, which should put things in perspective because that was an iPhone 5.
0:49:18 So I left with an iPhone 5 and it held up pretty nicely.
0:49:23 Eventually it broke and then I got another iPhone and eventually it broke and then I
0:49:27 got the third and last iPhone for the project.
0:49:31 So as far as telephones and equipment, I was pretty happy with iPhone.
0:49:32 That worked for me.
0:49:38 I’m sure that there is Samsung and HTC if that still exists and what else is out there.
0:49:42 I’m sure they do just as well.
0:49:43 And what about a camera?
0:49:47 Were you taking pictures or are you just using your iPhone?
0:49:50 I used my phone for the most part.
0:49:56 I did have a GoPro camera and I was updating my GoPro’s throughout the year, so the quality
0:49:57 got better.
0:50:04 The iPhone 5 held up for maybe three years or something like that, so that was a great
0:50:05 deal of countries.
0:50:11 I mean, more than 100 countries with the iPhone 5, which unfortunately doesn’t have the camera
0:50:12 quality.
0:50:19 Now I have an iPhone 13 and there is a huge gap between the video quality and the photo
0:50:20 quality.
0:50:23 That’s just the direction of technology, right?
0:50:27 So I’m a little sad to look at the old photos and see the quality of that, knowing what
0:50:31 it could have been if I had left today.
0:50:36 And are these photos going to be published somewhere?
0:50:41 I ran social media throughout the entire project, so a lot of these photos certainly
0:50:48 were posted on Facebook and Instagram and X as it’s called today, and many other places
0:50:51 I was blogging throughout.
0:50:56 We’re making this documentary right now, so we’ll have this full feature film out next
0:50:57 year.
0:51:00 We’ve been working on that for four years and that’s going to include some of the photos
0:51:04 and some of the video that I have from going around the world.
0:51:08 I don’t know, maybe I’ll make a coffee table book at some point and I’ll pick my best photos
0:51:13 from around the world and see if anyone wants to have a look at those.
0:51:19 But in this documentary and this book, it’s not like you ever had a crew documenting you,
0:51:20 right?
0:51:21 This is all first person?
0:51:24 Yes, it’s all first person.
0:51:29 The last four years of the project, I was working in close collaboration with an award-winning
0:51:31 film director from Canada.
0:51:37 His name is Mike Douglas and he flew out to film me while I was in the Pacific.
0:51:43 I was in Marshall Islands and we spent three days together and then the pandemic broke
0:51:48 out so we didn’t see each other for a bit and he told me to film as much as I possibly
0:51:49 could.
0:51:53 He said, “Film when you’re frustrated, film when you’re angry, film when you’re happy,
0:51:55 just film, film, film.”
0:52:00 So I did that and then he came to see me in Fiji at a later point and then I went around
0:52:05 to several countries and returned to Fiji and he came to film me again and then he came
0:52:10 to Sri Lanka and film me and joined the ship with me from Sri Lanka to the final country
0:52:12 which was the Maldives.
0:52:15 So we have all of that covered really well.
0:52:19 The last four years of the project, we have everything we need and more.
0:52:24 It’s the first six years of the project where I really wasn’t filming a lot and I get a
0:52:27 lot of heat for that.
0:52:28 You were busy.
0:52:36 A friend of mine who’s also been on this podcast is Rick Smolin and Rick Smolin is the guy
0:52:41 who did the day in the life of US, Australia, Russia.
0:52:49 He followed the woman who was going across Australia with camels and he has experience
0:52:52 in this kind of stuff if you ever want to talk to him.
0:52:55 His name is Rick Smolin, S-M-O-L-A-N.
0:52:56 Check him out.
0:53:01 As it turns out, Denmark has an Adventurer’s Club.
0:53:04 So there are these Adventurer’s Club around the world and there’s a chapter in Denmark
0:53:10 called the Adventurer’s Club Denmark and I was recently invited to come and speak at
0:53:15 their clubhouse during one of their meetings and I’m hoping that one day I can become a
0:53:19 member and all of these guys, they don’t have much more than 100 people at one time.
0:53:25 That’s where they cap the membership and all of these guys are crazy people who go out
0:53:29 with kayaks or camels or this or that.
0:53:32 Rick Smolin, he sounds like he fits right in.
0:53:34 Yeah.
0:53:38 We’ve had crazy people and I mean that in a positive way.
0:53:42 It sounds like when you were making some of these border crossings, it was just as dangerous
0:53:45 as surfing a 100-foot wave.
0:53:50 And there was some crazy stuff out there but you have to consider the volume.
0:53:56 The distance that I covered within this journey is akin to going nine and a half times around
0:54:01 the planet or going once from the planet and all the way out to the moon.
0:54:09 So I traveled some considerable distance and if nothing is going to go wrong across such
0:54:14 a distance and every country in the world and over the course of almost 10 years, then
0:54:17 you have to be the luckiest person on the planet.
0:54:22 So of course I have some stories, but here’s the thing, if we were to talk about bad things
0:54:27 from the project, then we would maybe be talking for days because there’s a lot of volume and
0:54:29 I can certainly share some stories with you.
0:54:33 But if we were to talk about the good stuff, we would be talking for months and months
0:54:37 because there’s been so much more of that and I think that’s just the nature of people
0:54:40 around the world.
0:54:43 That’s a good way to end this podcast.
0:54:49 People upbeat about the goodness of people because as you say, media only covers the
0:54:50 bad stuff.
0:54:56 Nobody ever says, “Oh, family had a happy dinner, update at 11.”
0:54:58 Yeah, it is true.
0:55:02 There’s so much good stuff going around the world and the only cameras there are from
0:55:05 the phones that people are holding.
0:55:08 Holy cow.
0:55:10 That’s one hell of a story.
0:55:12 10 years.
0:55:19 No flying into the country, visiting every country in the world.
0:55:20 Wow.
0:55:22 I can’t say I could do that.
0:55:29 Let’s face it, we’re on this dot in the universe and we’re all interconnected.
0:55:32 By the way, Madison and I have a new book.
0:55:36 It’s called “Think Remarkable.”
0:55:43 That reflects what we’ve learned from interviewing over 200 remarkable people like Thor as well
0:55:46 as our own experiences in business.
0:55:50 In my case, 40 years in tech.
0:55:52 So please check it out.
0:55:54 Think Remarkable.
0:56:01 Let me thank the Remarkable People team, Jeff C. and Shannon Hernandez, incredible sound
0:56:03 engineers.
0:56:10 And as a Nismar, a co-author and producer of this show, not to mention the drop-in queen
0:56:20 of Santa Cruz, Tessa Nismar, ace researcher and writer, and backing us up, doing all kinds
0:56:28 of miscellaneous and important work because you have no idea how much work is involved
0:56:34 in making a podcast and transcripts and everything work.
0:56:43 Anyway, the rest of the team is Luis Magana, Alexis Nishimura and Fallon Yates.
0:56:45 This is the Remarkable People team.
0:56:49 We’re on a mission to make you remarkable.
0:56:55 Until next time, mahalo and aloha.
0:56:57 This is Remarkable People.