State of Play in the Rideshare Wars — ft. David Risher, CEO of Lyft

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0:00:31 Today’s number, 6,600.
0:00:34 That’s how many Americans applied for UK citizenship last year.
0:00:36 A record high.
0:00:39 Ed, did you hear about that tragic auto accident
0:00:42 where Meghan Markle was disfigured and burnt alive?
0:00:43 I didn’t.
0:00:45 Well, we can wish, can’t we?
0:00:48 Listen to me.
0:00:49 Markets are bigger than us.
0:00:52 What you have here is a structural change in the world distribution.
0:00:53 Cash is trash.
0:00:55 Stocks look pretty attractive.
0:00:56 Something’s going to break.
0:00:57 Forget about it.
0:01:00 What did the Americans say when he was watching the British porno?
0:01:01 What?
0:01:02 The British are coming.
0:01:03 The British are coming.
0:01:04 I’ve heard that one.
0:01:04 You’ve heard that one?
0:01:05 I’ve heard that one.
0:01:06 You know what?
0:01:07 You and I have really never shared.
0:01:10 I don’t know how you feel about Harry and Meghan.
0:01:11 How do you feel about them?
0:01:12 I hate them.
0:01:14 I’m a huge, yeah.
0:01:16 I really do not like Meghan Markle.
0:01:21 I love the story of a 40-year-old divorcee saving a prince from the horrors of Buckingham Palace.
0:01:28 Do you remember when we were at the Soho House in Austin for South by Southwest, where your
0:01:33 very generous boss decided to take the whole Prop G Media team, just saying, and we saw Meghan
0:01:34 and Harry, they were eating next to us.
0:01:35 Were you at that?
0:01:37 That was the one dinner I did not make.
0:01:44 The entire team sat next to them, and I was, I think I was busy in my hotel room, anxiously
0:01:46 prepping to do my first live podcast.
0:01:48 So I didn’t see them, but the rest of the team did.
0:01:52 Okay, so let me just tell you, after seeing them, I 100% get it.
0:01:54 She is so scorching hot.
0:01:55 We all knew that.
0:01:59 I feel bad now making fun of them, because I just totally get it.
0:02:01 I 100% get it.
0:02:07 A few years ago, when you wrote a post about Harry and Meghan, and you had one line that
0:02:12 I think was my favorite line that you’ve written before, and you were talking about how, you
0:02:15 know, Meghan’s terrible for all these reasons, and then you were like, but we have to give
0:02:22 her credit for doing something that we all strive to do, and that is convince our spouse
0:02:29 that their family is terrible, which I totally, but I’ve never, I’ve never heard someone put
0:02:30 it that way.
0:02:31 It’s very true.
0:02:34 It’s, it’s like a, it’s a, it’s a favorite.
0:02:34 Yeah.
0:02:35 Your family’s awful.
0:02:38 Let me give you a little, little inside tip, little pro tip.
0:02:41 By the way, just, just to be clear, I love my girlfriend’s family.
0:02:43 I’m, I’m, I’m totally kidding.
0:02:45 If anyone’s listening, I love them.
0:02:46 You’re still working it.
0:02:47 I get it.
0:02:47 I get it.
0:02:48 You’re still trying.
0:02:52 Anyways, let me give you a little tip, because I get the sense you’re barreling
0:02:58 towards, towards marriage and kids and all that good stuff is that once the key to having
0:03:01 a great relationship, I have the best relationship with my in-laws.
0:03:03 There’s only two things you got to remember.
0:03:06 One, don’t communicate with them, right?
0:03:10 That is when it all comes off the rails is when you start talking to them.
0:03:16 And all of a sudden you’re, you’re sort of like, you’re interested to ask your father-in-law
0:03:17 why he likes Trump.
0:03:17 Okay.
0:03:22 Just don’t, don’t talk to them and hope they, hope they speak really poor English.
0:03:24 Actually, my in-laws speak pretty good English, but it’s not their first language.
0:03:28 And my father-in-law doesn’t, he doesn’t hear great.
0:03:29 It just works out so well.
0:03:32 And just buy the dad a Mercedes every three years.
0:03:33 Boom.
0:03:35 That’s not that great advice.
0:03:36 That’s not that actionable for me right now.
0:03:38 Aside from buying the Mercedes.
0:03:40 But what else, what else can I do?
0:03:41 I think that’s the key.
0:03:46 I remember, although I knew I liked her, I knew I liked my current partner’s mother when
0:03:53 I picked her up and I was going to basically taking her to New York with me.
0:03:56 And I heard her over saying to her husband, he didn’t even bring a goose.
0:04:00 Like I’m taking their daughter.
0:04:01 I should have brought a goose or something.
0:04:04 I thought that was funny.
0:04:08 Like your mom said, I should have brought a goose for you in exchange for you.
0:04:09 You’re worth a goose.
0:04:10 Anyways.
0:04:12 Dad, what’s going on?
0:04:15 Didn’t understand that one as much as I usually do.
0:04:16 But I rarely do.
0:04:17 The British are coming.
0:04:18 Anyways.
0:04:19 All right.
0:04:20 Get on to the headline.
0:04:20 Oh, wait.
0:04:22 We don’t have headlines today?
0:04:23 What’s going on?
0:04:24 No, we don’t have headlines today.
0:04:26 We’ve just got a conversation.
0:04:30 We’re speaking with David Risher, who is the CEO of Lyft.
0:04:31 What an amazing company.
0:04:32 They’re just dominating right here.
0:04:33 Oh, wait.
0:04:33 Never mind.
0:04:34 Never mind.
0:04:35 Sorry about that.
0:04:36 Sorry about that, Ed.
0:04:37 Careful.
0:04:38 He’s actually a really nice guy.
0:04:39 He texts me.
0:04:39 I know.
0:04:40 That’s the problem, though.
0:04:45 Just as someone who’s clearly strategically absconding my identity, pretty soon I’m going
0:04:48 to walk into my house and you’re going to be there with your socks off hitting my kids.
0:04:52 Like you are definitely usurping my identity right now.
0:04:56 Don’t get to know these people because you like them.
0:04:56 Right.
0:04:59 And you stop speaking openly and honestly about them.
0:05:01 And I’ve gotten to know David a little bit and I like him.
0:05:02 He’s a very nice guy.
0:05:03 Very thoughtful.
0:05:04 Should we bring him in?
0:05:04 Let’s bring him in.
0:05:05 Okay.
0:05:05 Let’s do it.
0:05:09 David, thank you for joining us on the program.
0:05:10 Super good to be here.
0:05:17 We’re going to start with, I mean, we have, I have a lot of questions to ask.
0:05:18 Okay.
0:05:19 Lay them on me.
0:05:25 We’re going to start with just Lyft and the ride sharing market specifically.
0:05:29 And then we’ll get into some broader topics about you and about your career.
0:05:30 We’re going to start with Lyft.
0:05:31 We’re just talking off mic earlier.
0:05:38 You wrote a senior thesis that was somehow more boring than mine, which we can maybe talk
0:05:38 about later.
0:05:40 But for now, let’s start with Lyft.
0:05:41 You are the CEO.
0:05:46 You became CEO back in 2023.
0:05:52 And at the time, Lyft had about 26% market share in the US.
0:05:53 The rest was Uber.
0:05:58 Today, Lyft’s market share is larger.
0:06:01 It’s around 30%, a little higher.
0:06:04 But the rest is still Uber.
0:06:09 And Uber’s at this gigantic $200 billion market cap.
0:06:11 Lyft is at $7 billion.
0:06:14 So I know I’m sure you get this question all the time, but it’s sort of the question that
0:06:16 we all have to ask.
0:06:21 And that is, how are you competing with Uber?
0:06:23 The other guys, they do their thing.
0:06:29 But I’m actually much more interested in the $160 billion rides that people take every year
0:06:32 in their car, in their own private car, just in North America.
0:06:37 My biggest competition is actually inertia, you know, and the couch and your own car.
0:06:38 Like, that’s the competition.
0:06:40 And so, I mean, it’s great that we picked up share.
0:06:41 I’ll tell you about that in a second.
0:06:45 But what has really driven our growth, and it’s been very significant growth.
0:06:52 You’re talking about 13%, well, 15%, 17%, 19%, 15%, 14% now, on sort of $16 billion of
0:06:56 booking, 800 million rides a year, 1.5 million drivers on the platform.
0:06:57 These are big numbers.
0:06:59 How do you grow such big numbers?
0:07:01 You don’t just compete against your competitor.
0:07:03 In fact, if you focus on that, you lose.
0:07:05 What you do is you focus on your riders and your drivers.
0:07:06 That’s how you win.
0:07:10 And that’s why we’re now, you know, making money, printing cash.
0:07:12 Service letters are better than ever, you know, and on and on and on.
0:07:15 And in a way, that’s the answer to how you compete with the other guys, too.
0:07:15 You just do better.
0:07:16 You just do better.
0:07:17 And that’s why we’ve picked up share.
0:07:19 Is this a question you get all the time?
0:07:20 I’m assuming it is.
0:07:22 I mean, it is and it isn’t.
0:07:24 So people talk a lot about the competition.
0:07:30 The funny thing is that I actually think it’s part of the problem of the ride share industry,
0:07:35 or maybe has been for a while, is I think it got people stuck in this sort of zero-sum mode.
0:07:37 You know, they win, you lose, you win, they lose.
0:07:42 And I think it sort of ignored the much bigger question, which is, this is a good product.
0:07:48 This is a product that’s part of people’s lives, at least from our perspective, two million times a day, 800 million times a year.
0:07:51 So for me, the bigger question is, why haven’t we all grown more?
0:07:53 And I think the answer is a lack of innovation.
0:07:58 And I think part of lack of innovation is because there’s been that whole competitive dynamic and so focused on each other instead of focusing on customers.
0:08:00 So that’s the big shift for me.
0:08:03 So what is that tangible differentiation?
0:08:08 Why do you think you’re able to grab share if you’re on a very basic level?
0:08:09 Is it a cost advantage?
0:08:12 Because is it a culture advantage?
0:08:17 You know, Coke and Pepsi, why is Pepsi different here?
0:08:20 Our purpose is to serve and connect.
0:08:23 That’s what we do every single day.
0:08:26 We wake up, we’ve got 3,000 employees, we’ve got 1.5 million drivers.
0:08:31 And the idea is, how can I serve riders and drivers better than they’ve ever been served before?
0:08:34 And how can we connect them to the people and places they love?
0:08:36 So that’s where we start.
0:08:40 Okay, so how does that manifest itself competitively?
0:08:42 Let’s look at drivers for a second.
0:08:49 Drivers right now have a 29-point preference for driving on our platform versus on the other guys.
0:08:50 29 points.
0:08:52 That’s internal data that we do every quarter.
0:08:53 We can share the data with you.
0:08:57 It’s been, and it’s been a remarkable sort of divergence over the last year in particular.
0:08:59 So that’s a form of competition, right?
0:09:01 We’re competing for the same driver base.
0:09:01 How are we winning?
0:09:04 Well, we have a 70% earnings guarantee.
0:09:08 We have an AI assistant that helps people plan their drives.
0:09:10 We have an accomplishment letter.
0:09:16 So you compete at sort of the street level, and you say, how can we grab more preference from drivers?
0:09:20 And when drivers drive more for you, it allows the marketplace to work better, you know, yada, yada.
0:09:22 Okay, how do you compete for riders?
0:09:24 We give better service.
0:09:27 Now, people don’t necessarily know that right now, and I grant you that.
0:09:28 I grant you that.
0:09:34 Right now, yes, we have a small price advantage, but frankly, that’s tiny, and we compete, frankly, on price sort of by matching.
0:09:37 Like, you know, that’s not really sort of a competition area as much for us.
0:09:39 We really want to compete on service.
0:09:40 I’ll tell you something.
0:09:47 Today, we will pick you up about 30 seconds faster than our competition does on average, which is very significant considering we’re a third their size.
0:09:51 I will tell you that our driver cancellation rate, and it’s a lot of data, but here we go.
0:09:53 When I started, it was about 14%.
0:09:55 So 14% of the time, a driver would cancel on you.
0:09:57 Now it’s down to 4.9%.
0:10:01 So we just over and over and over and over again provide better service.
0:10:11 And the reason that that, or the way that shows up, and the reason, therefore, it allows us to kind of claw back share is because it increases new rider activation, for sure, but frequency.
0:10:12 And that’s a huge part of it.
0:10:16 A lot of people know about ride share, but people only take it two or three times a month.
0:10:18 If we can do better service, they come back to us, they ride more.
0:10:20 And so that’s why we’ve been growing so much.
0:10:25 Fortunately or unfortunately for you, Uber’s become a verb or synonymous with ride hailing.
0:10:30 And so you have to, you know, you’re Avis, you need to try harder.
0:10:35 But you’re finding that consumers, are they more loyal?
0:10:43 Is it, that that, what sounds like a better offering or, and by the way, I think focusing on the drivers is actually a very smart thing to do.
0:10:57 But do you see in consumer survey data that, that your riders are more loyal and willing to pay a price premium or how does that manifest in terms of consumer feedback?
0:11:01 So the short answer is they are more loyal and they’re getting more loyal every day.
0:11:06 So our frequency has never been higher, but with our new riders and our frequency has never been higher.
0:11:08 I mean, I’m going to take a little bit of a side and I’ll come back.
0:11:10 I drive for a Lyft about every six weeks.
0:11:15 And one of the things that I hear, I hear a couple of, because I, and I always ask, I ask, why did you choose Lyft today?
0:11:19 And typically the responses come in a couple of categories.
0:11:20 Some are functional.
0:11:25 You know, you were faster than the other guys, you know, lower ETA, your price was lower.
0:11:26 Sure.
0:11:28 Then there’s what I might call partner driven.
0:11:31 You know, I’m a Chase Sapphire Reserve holder, says a rider.
0:11:35 And therefore, because I get points, I use you guys, you know, these, these sorts of things.
0:11:38 And we have a lot of partner, DoorDash is a huge partner of ours, a huge, huge partner of ours.
0:11:40 And that becomes a big, significant growth driver.
0:11:44 So those are, those are sort of semi-functional, kind of maybe, maybe functional adjacent.
0:11:46 Then you get stuff like, I like your values more.
0:11:48 I just think you’re a better company.
0:11:49 I can feel it.
0:11:51 I can feel the way your drivers talk about you versus the other guys.
0:11:52 Then you get a whole bunch of other things.
0:11:57 The way it shows up most consistently on the financials is growth.
0:11:59 And again, taking share.
0:12:04 As I mentioned, when I started out, we were 26%, then 27%, then 28%, then 29%, then 30%.
0:12:06 We’re touching 31%.
0:12:08 It’s not what motivates me every morning.
0:12:10 It’s a trailing indicator, but it shows that, you know, step by step.
0:12:11 By step, by step, by step.
0:12:14 And then there’ll be some step changes, which maybe we’ll talk about another time.
0:12:17 But things like lift silver and some other things that really expand the market.
0:12:18 So it’s tricky.
0:12:19 Look, it’s a, it’s a duopoly.
0:12:20 I mean, let’s use the word, right?
0:12:22 And there are two people who are fighting it out every single day.
0:12:25 And we, we, we, we, we, we fight super, super hard.
0:12:27 And it’s great for, frankly, the whole industry.
0:12:31 It, you know, grows the whole time because you’ve got two people who are fighting for every
0:12:31 single thing.
0:12:33 And then little by little, you pick up share.
0:12:36 And so, you know, start 26, then you go to 30, then maybe you go to 35, maybe you go to
0:12:36 40.
0:12:41 And maybe the market goes, you know, and doubles and doubles again as, as, as new things happen.
0:12:46 I think one of the big topics also right now in, in ride-sharing, one is delivery.
0:12:49 And that’s been a big investment from Uber.
0:12:53 And you mentioned that you, you have this partnership with DoorDash, which I would like to hear more
0:12:53 about.
0:12:58 Um, and the second is autonomous driving.
0:13:01 And, you know, you’ve obviously got Waymo, which is expanding.
0:13:04 You’ve got Tesla rolling out their RoboTaxi.
0:13:08 I know that Uber is also working on a lot of autonomous vehicle projects.
0:13:10 They’re partnering with Waymo.
0:13:17 Um, talk a bit about what you’re doing in terms of delivery and also after that, in terms
0:13:20 of autonomous driving.
0:13:26 Um, do you see, it seems as though that’s where ride-sharing is headed at this point, that
0:13:28 that’s, that’s how these companies will expand.
0:13:33 Um, I’m wondering if, if you view that, uh, the same way over at Lyft.
0:13:36 We decided a while ago, so as you mentioned, I’ve been in the job now about two and a half
0:13:37 years, a little less.
0:13:41 And, you know, my big focus right from the beginning is customer obsession is what’s
0:13:42 going to drive profitable growth.
0:13:44 And as you mentioned, when we, when I started, we were losing money.
0:13:45 Now we’re making money.
0:13:49 So the thesis is sort of being, um, uh, proven out.
0:13:53 One of the sort of, let’s say, corollaries to that is focus really helps.
0:13:56 And so we’re really focused on ride-share and doing a great ride-share experience.
0:14:01 And thus, for that reason, we’ve decided that partnership is a better strategy than trying
0:14:03 to incorporate food delivery ourselves.
0:14:05 We’ve partnered with the best in breed.
0:14:08 DoorDash actually dominates, uh, the other guys in food delivery, certainly in the United
0:14:10 States and in actually much of the world.
0:14:12 Um, and it’s a great partnership and it’s one of those partnerships.
0:14:13 It’s quite, it’s early.
0:14:16 It’s only been about six months, but gosh, man, you look at the number of, I mean, we
0:14:17 blew away.
0:14:20 So Tony, who’s the CEO of DoorDash and I were on sort of a daily email the first couple
0:14:21 of days.
0:14:24 We launched a partnership and we each had our own internal goals of how many people
0:14:26 would link their accounts over the first, you know, day, week, month.
0:14:28 And we, I mean, we blew them away.
0:14:31 We, we, we basically, you know, what we thought was going to be a six month project turns out
0:14:35 to be like a three week thing of activation and, you know, literally over a million riders
0:14:39 linking their accounts just in the first couple weeks because they got, um, points and rewards
0:14:40 on both platforms by doing so.
0:14:44 So long way of saying, I think partnering with the best of breed is great.
0:14:48 And if your riders, uh, can literally, you know, order DoorDash as they’re coming home
0:14:52 at night and get a bonus from it so that by the time it’s home, they’ve got, you know,
0:14:53 an extra perk.
0:14:55 They’ve maybe got a discount on their ride and their food’s been delivered.
0:15:00 Um, it’s great from a rider perspective and, um, and does everything you, you, you want it
0:15:00 to do.
0:15:05 I think that’s a good lead into the AV question, because I think one of my big questions about,
0:15:08 um, AVs is how is the business going to work?
0:15:15 And so far it has been largely a partnership, um, set up.
0:15:20 There are questions over how viable that is, especially when it comes to Uber, um, where
0:15:26 there are questions over, you know, does Uber lose some leverage if the, if the only way that
0:15:30 they’re getting into autonomous vehicles is through forming these partnerships where they’re
0:15:33 reliant on other companies to build those vehicles for them.
0:15:38 There was a time when they were maybe going to build those autonomous robotaxis themselves
0:15:41 and they decided, no, we’re going to take the partnership route, which is what you’ve
0:15:41 done as well.
0:15:44 You’ve decided we’re going to partner with DoorDash instead.
0:15:50 So I guess I’m interested in why does the partnership route make the most sense?
0:15:56 Um, and how will that play out in the robotaxi business in the longterm?
0:15:57 Is that the lift strategy?
0:16:04 The networks that create hybrids between human driven and machine driven, robot driven, um,
0:16:06 vehicles, they’re going to win.
0:16:11 And the reason they’re going to win is because from a customer perspective, of course, AVs are
0:16:14 novel right now, but eventually they just become commonplace.
0:16:15 They’re just another way to get around.
0:16:16 They have certain advantages.
0:16:17 They have certain disadvantages.
0:16:20 They don’t pick up your luggage for you, but they don’t, you know, listen to you while
0:16:21 you’re talking on the phone.
0:16:21 Okay.
0:16:24 So the, so, so you’re going to want them as part of your network.
0:16:25 Absolutely.
0:16:28 You are, but you can’t only have robotaxes.
0:16:29 You can’t, they’re just not enough.
0:16:31 They’re not enough at the end of the Taylor Swift concert.
0:16:34 They’re not enough at, at five o’clock at night or nine o’clock in the morning.
0:16:37 They’re not enough when it starts to pour down raining and everybody wants to take
0:16:38 ride share.
0:16:41 They’re not enough because in rural areas, um, they’re just, it’s going to take years and years
0:16:42 and years.
0:16:46 Even the most aggressive estimates, now I’m going to set Tesla aside for a second because
0:16:49 they’re very hard to model, but the most aggressive estimates, which is a funny understatement,
0:16:50 hard to model.
0:16:56 Anyway, uh, so like, but it’s, um, you know, maybe it’s 30,000 cars by 2030, something like
0:16:59 that in total on the, on the, in the U S that are, that are robotaxes.
0:16:59 Okay.
0:17:03 Again, we have 1.5 million drivers on the platform, each one has a car and the other guys
0:17:05 have, you know, called a similar number, maybe bigger.
0:17:09 So, so, so you, you’re going to want some sort of hybrid because most customers aren’t
0:17:12 going to want to have five different apps depending on what city they’re in or whether it’s raining
0:17:13 or not or whatever, whatever.
0:17:13 Okay.
0:17:19 So now the question becomes, well, do you want to sort of fully integrate or do you
0:17:20 want to partner?
0:17:23 And, and I’m going to get like, so Scott’s a professor.
0:17:24 I’m gonna get a little professorial for a second.
0:17:26 Apologize in advance.
0:17:27 But like, think of the whole value chain here.
0:17:30 Like you’ve got the OEMs, the people who make the cars.
0:17:30 Okay.
0:17:33 Then you’ve got the tech providers, the AB tech providers, right?
0:17:36 That might be a mobile eye or might be a Waymo.
0:17:39 Then you’ve got the whole financing thing.
0:17:40 Somebody has got to buy these things and own these things.
0:17:41 They’re expensive assets.
0:17:43 Then you’ve got, we call fleet management.
0:17:44 Someone’s got to keep them clean.
0:17:45 Someone’s got to keep them maintained.
0:17:47 Someone’s got to keep them ready to go on the road.
0:17:50 Then you’ve got all the, the, the, what we call marketplace.
0:17:52 So the supply demand matching stuff.
0:17:55 And then you have pricing and ETA, customer service, all these other things.
0:17:56 So each one of these is its own thing.
0:17:59 And you can try to do all of those things.
0:18:03 Sure you could, you know, that would be, that would be an unusual strategy because most people
0:18:07 aren’t great at everything from, you know, making cars and tech to the customer service
0:18:08 and marketplace and all the rest.
0:18:10 You can do it though if you tried, but it’s very, very expensive.
0:18:12 Or you can say, well, let me specialize.
0:18:15 So what we specialize is in the marketplace stuff and the demand management.
0:18:17 We’ve got 3 million people every day open up our app.
0:18:22 And then we have this whole thing called FlexDrive, which is a fleet management system that runs
0:18:24 about 15,000 cars on it right now.
0:18:27 It’s garages, it’s maintenance, it’s all kinds of stuff.
0:18:28 It’s charging, it’s tire pressure.
0:18:30 It’s all this stuff to keep, oh, that’s an asset we have.
0:18:35 So we believe that our assets, all of our customers, all of our customer service, all of our demand
0:18:40 management, all of our pricing, all of our ETA estimation, gate codes for millions of planned
0:18:44 communities, pick up and drop off, all these things that take years and years to build plus
0:18:45 fleet management.
0:18:46 That’s what we bring to the table.
0:18:50 The last thing I’ll say is, and you kind of mentioned this before, of course, if there
0:18:55 were only one supplier of AV tech, that’d be awkward for us because then we’d be beholden
0:18:58 to somebody who’s got tech, which is pretty cool.
0:19:00 It’s safe and novel and all sorts of cool things.
0:19:01 But that’s not the case.
0:19:02 That’s not the case.
0:19:02 There’s so many.
0:19:05 You can’t even throw a stone without, of course, there’s Mobileye, of course, there’s
0:19:08 Tesla, of course, there’s Waymo, of course, there’s Zoox, of course, there’s, and then
0:19:09 you get to the Chinese guys.
0:19:12 Of course, there’s Pony AI, and there’s WeRide, and there’s Baidu, and there’s BYD.
0:19:14 And then you get to the people you haven’t even heard of yet.
0:19:15 Maybe NVIDIA gets into the space.
0:19:17 Maybe OpenAI gets into the space.
0:19:20 And then there are guys in the garage who are just thinking about it today who haven’t
0:19:22 even thought about it, how they’re going to solve all the problems.
0:19:27 So I think the chance of there being, let’s call it supply concentration, is very, very
0:19:27 low.
0:19:32 I think the chance of demand aggregation mattering a lot, and fleet management and pricing always
0:19:37 being important, plus a hybrid network of millions of drivers is very high.
0:19:38 And that’s what I think we win.
0:19:42 And I think we’ve become the best way for people to commercialize these very expensive
0:19:44 assets, put them on our network, and just go, go, go.
0:19:51 So you have about 24 million, my understanding is active users on your platform, which is a
0:19:51 lot of people.
0:19:56 And consumers are lazier, I find they are, and that is they’re used to your app, they’re
0:20:02 used to your interface, and so they’re just inclined to get their rides to Lyft.
0:20:10 Do you think, what’s your gut telling you, do the Waymos and the Teslas and potentially the
0:20:13 NVIDIAs and the other people that come in, do you think they sit back and say, okay, we want
0:20:18 to be the operating system and the technology and partner with the people who have already
0:20:22 acquired these people and are used to a certain user interface, the Lyfts and the
0:20:23 Ubers of the world?
0:20:25 Or do you see them going vertical?
0:20:32 Are you, and what is Tesla’s, to the extent you’ve had conversations with them or not, what
0:20:33 does your gut tell you?
0:20:37 Are these companies going to be suppliers or are they going to go vertical and then compete
0:20:38 against you?
0:20:43 I think you, right now, are sitting in the boardroom of Waymo and asking yourself that
0:20:44 question.
0:20:48 And I think the answer right now, and I’m not betraying confidences, I think you can just
0:20:53 see this as you look at what the different companies are doing, is people right now are going for
0:20:54 optionality.
0:20:59 It’s very, again, we can come back to Tesla because it’s a bit of a special case.
0:21:02 It’s more of a future possibility rather than a present day thing.
0:21:06 But if you look at the present day, and let’s just look at Waymo, who’s obviously very, very
0:21:08 advanced in this space.
0:21:14 They are simultaneously promoting Waymo One, which is their own product, as well as partnering
0:21:18 with others who can provide the demand for them and then their effect with the supplier.
0:21:21 And it’s possible that that is stable.
0:21:23 I mean, in other words, that you can do both, right?
0:21:23 Many companies have done this.
0:21:27 They have their first-party apps, and then they let their parties on the platform, right?
0:21:29 That’s a way that companies work sometimes.
0:21:37 I happen to believe, of course, I’m partisan, but I also think that there’s some data to back
0:21:42 this up, that the dominant strategy will be the partnership strategy because I think it’s
0:21:43 more capital efficient.
0:21:47 It’s very expensive to build and run a rideshare system.
0:21:48 It’s very, very expensive.
0:21:52 Again, you have to think, I’ll go down a little path for two seconds.
0:21:54 Three million people a day open your app.
0:21:59 Every single time they open an app, they’re seeing five different, then they put in a test
0:21:59 station.
0:22:01 They’re seeing a whole bunch of different prices.
0:22:02 Every one of those prices has to be calculated in real time.
0:22:04 Every one of those ETAs has to be calculated in real time.
0:22:07 Those routes have to get vended out to a bunch of different drivers.
0:22:11 And then depending on race dynamics, whatever, you got to click from, the supply is not constant.
0:22:13 Drivers are coming on and off the platform.
0:22:16 You say, well, maybe EVs aren’t, but they need to be because guess what?
0:22:18 Sometimes you’re going to have a lot of demand, sometimes not so.
0:22:20 The math problem is huge.
0:22:21 The compute is huge.
0:22:22 And then there’s all the customer service and all these other things.
0:22:27 The point is building and maintaining that and getting it better every single day for every
0:22:29 single airport and every single small town.
0:22:31 And now over in Europe as well, it’s expensive.
0:22:35 So I think if you’re, sorry for the long answer, but I think if you’re the rational player says,
0:22:41 I will mostly focus on building something that is unique and super high quality and super safe.
0:22:44 And I’m going to try to sell to as many people as possible.
0:22:47 Maybe I’ll experiment with a little first party self myself.
0:22:50 Maybe that’s so that I can understand, or hotels do this, right?
0:22:54 They own some properties and then they vend out a lot of the rest to franchisees.
0:22:56 Maybe it becomes a little like that, you know?
0:22:59 But so I think it’ll be a mixed model, but I think the dominant thing is going to be,
0:23:02 I want to sell and commercialize as many as possible, as much of my tech as possible.
0:23:07 And that’s best done to marketplaces like us who are willing, you know, buyers.
0:23:11 And we’ve got, you know, tens of millions of riders who, to your point,
0:23:14 are already used to a certain thing and trust a certain thing.
0:23:17 We’ll be right back after the break.
0:23:20 And if you’re enjoying the show so far, be sure to give ProfitU Market to follow
0:23:22 wherever you get your podcasts.
0:23:33 There’s a lot nobody tells you about running a small business,
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0:23:48 But having the right insurance can help protect you from many things.
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0:23:53 with BCAA Small Business Insurance.
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0:24:08 We’re back with ProfitU Markets.
0:24:11 So I think of you as the number two that needs to be,
0:24:14 in the way you continue to grab market share,
0:24:18 is through focus or just owning certain, I don’t know,
0:24:21 you become known as the company that has better service
0:24:25 or is better to your drivers or is especially strong in rural areas
0:24:26 versus urban or vice versa.
0:24:31 When you look at the different points of differentiation or growth,
0:24:34 it could be autonomous, it could be food delivery,
0:24:38 it could be a messenger service, it could be a luxury offering,
0:24:41 it could be partnering with new types of transportation,
0:24:44 vertical takeoff and landing, which I’ll come back to.
0:24:48 What growth channel are you most excited about and think,
0:24:51 okay, if I was going to double down on something in trying,
0:24:55 I mean, to be blunt, I’ve gotten to know you and I like you
0:24:56 and I’m rooting for you.
0:25:04 But I don’t immediately feel a point of differentiation from you guys.
0:25:06 I don’t immediately go, when I think of Lyft,
0:25:09 quite frankly, your brand association is you’re the number two.
0:25:11 That’s not the brand association you want.
0:25:15 If you were going to over-invest in an area and say,
0:25:18 in five years, I want Lyft to be known as the guys who are,
0:25:21 or the ride-hailing company that is really good at X, what is that?
0:25:23 I want to be known for great service.
0:25:23 I really do.
0:25:25 And I’m talking about exceptional service.
0:25:27 I’m talking about every single time you order a Lyft,
0:25:28 you know what you’re going to get.
0:25:29 It’s going to be fantastic.
0:25:30 Every single time.
0:25:32 And if you have a problem, we’re always going to make it right.
0:25:34 I’ll give you a tiny example of how we do it today.
0:25:37 Today, if you use us for a scheduled drive to the airport
0:25:38 and we’re more than 10 minutes late,
0:25:40 we pay you a hundred bucks, up to a hundred bucks,
0:25:41 even to take the competition.
0:25:41 I don’t care.
0:25:43 And no questions asked.
0:25:44 And guess what?
0:25:45 Guess what?
0:25:47 Our payout rate is 0.001%.
0:25:47 You know what I mean?
0:25:49 It’s like, we’ve gotten that really, really good.
0:25:52 Our black offering, our luxury offering,
0:25:53 it’s relatively small now.
0:25:54 It’s not been an area of investment,
0:25:56 but it’s doubled year on year just in the last year
0:25:57 as we’ve started to focus on it.
0:25:59 So if I have to say number one,
0:26:02 let me answer the question also a different way.
0:26:04 I think it’s not just about what we’re better at,
0:26:06 what we’re unique at,
0:26:08 but also how our customers think about us,
0:26:09 how they perceive us.
0:26:11 I want our customers to say,
0:26:11 you know what?
0:26:12 I’m talking about our riders now.
0:26:14 I’m not doing just the default.
0:26:15 I’m making my own decision.
0:26:16 I’m making my own decision.
0:26:19 I want to support a company that treats its drivers better.
0:26:21 I want to support a company where I know I’m going to get great service.
0:26:23 I want to support a company that has values like mine.
0:26:25 Totally agree with you,
0:26:27 because you can hear the number of words I’m having to use to answer your question,
0:26:31 that we continue to have work to do to refine that value prop.
0:26:34 And, you know, in my two and a half years,
0:26:36 the first focus has been getting the basics right.
0:26:39 And now, and now here’s finally the answer to your question,
0:26:42 an enormous focus on brand is going to be one of our big pushes.
0:26:43 It has to be.
0:26:43 It has to be.
0:26:45 There’s so many products out there in the world
0:26:47 where people are making the decision based on their heart,
0:26:50 based on what they think and love and fall in love with.
0:26:51 And of course, rationally,
0:26:53 I’ve had a great service to pick me up super fast,
0:26:54 but they also got to fall in love with us.
0:26:56 And so that’s my big thing over the next couple of years,
0:26:58 is how do you get, you know, love going?
0:27:03 I love your focus on customer obsession and on service.
0:27:07 And I think this is probably a good moment
0:27:11 to look at kind of your career path,
0:27:13 because I know that you were an early executive at Microsoft,
0:27:17 and then you were an early executive at Amazon, too.
0:27:20 In other words, you worked very closely
0:27:22 with two of the greatest entrepreneurs of all time,
0:27:25 and that is Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos.
0:27:30 And Bezos is sort of the king of customer obsession
0:27:36 and of just dialing in on service and how important that is.
0:27:39 So my question, what did you learn from those two
0:27:42 about entrepreneurship, about business,
0:27:44 or even just about life in general?
0:27:46 What I really learned at Microsoft,
0:27:47 and some of this really was,
0:27:49 I mean, I didn’t work for Bill, of course,
0:27:50 I worked for, you know, somebody who’s somebody,
0:27:52 somebody who’s somebody, but I saw him in action,
0:27:55 is just the focus of being a fierce competitor.
0:27:56 A fierce competitor.
0:27:58 Oh, my God, was he fierce.
0:27:59 And it’s so interesting,
0:28:01 because in the package software world,
0:28:05 so much of the, you have this crazy network effect, right?
0:28:07 Like, once people start to use Excel,
0:28:08 once it gets over 50 or 60% in your company,
0:28:10 it’s going to go to 90%.
0:28:11 And he knew that.
0:28:12 He was like, we got to, I mean,
0:28:13 this is not his words, but this is the vibe.
0:28:15 It’s like, you got to get to, you know,
0:28:16 you got to get to a critical mass.
0:28:18 And then you move on to the next thing.
0:28:19 I remember someone asking him this question,
0:28:20 you know, how much time do you spend thinking about Excel?
0:28:22 And he’s like, ah, not so much,
0:28:23 because they’ve kind of already won the thing.
0:28:24 So like, so the sort of, frankly,
0:28:25 winner-take-all mentality,
0:28:27 he was super aggressive.
0:28:28 And I learned a bunch from that.
0:28:30 I had a million pictures up in my office
0:28:32 of literally CEOs of competing companies.
0:28:34 And I would, you know, throw darts at him,
0:28:34 stuff like that.
0:28:36 From Jeff, customer obsession.
0:28:38 And, you know, and it sounds trite now,
0:28:39 because people have said it so many times,
0:28:41 but I mean, he really was a deep believer
0:28:43 that, you know, everything is one click away
0:28:44 from everything else on the internet.
0:28:47 And so if you don’t just fight every single day,
0:28:48 wake up every morning,
0:28:49 you’re terrified that your customer
0:28:50 is going to abandon you,
0:28:51 you know, you’re losing.
0:28:53 And I’ve really, you know,
0:28:54 I brought that to Lyft.
0:28:56 We talk about our values a lot.
0:28:58 Customer obsession is number one by far.
0:29:00 And then I want to say something else,
0:29:00 if you don’t mind.
0:29:02 So I then, I went on and did a bunch of other things,
0:29:04 including running a nonprofit for many years,
0:29:05 for about 12 years,
0:29:07 that I founded myself getting kids reading
0:29:07 called World Reader.
0:29:09 I bring that up because from there,
0:29:10 I really learned a sense of purpose.
0:29:12 And in that case, it was getting kids to read.
0:29:14 Now it’s serving and connecting at Lyft.
0:29:19 One of those principles that I really respect
0:29:21 that you mentioned that you do
0:29:22 is that you drive.
0:29:27 You are a Lyft driver and you do it regularly.
0:29:28 And I’m pretty sure Waffle House
0:29:33 has a similar system where I think they say
0:29:35 that the CEO has to be a Lyon cook
0:29:36 one day of the year.
0:29:38 And I think there are probably some other companies
0:29:39 that do this as well.
0:29:41 But in other words,
0:29:46 you know what it’s like to be a driver.
0:29:48 Tell us why that’s important to you
0:29:51 and tell us what that does
0:29:53 in terms of customer service
0:29:55 and how that benefits the company.
0:29:57 So, I mean, I have to say first,
0:29:57 almost selfishly,
0:29:58 I just love it.
0:29:59 I love it.
0:30:01 I do it every six weeks or so.
0:30:03 And it’s just super, super fun.
0:30:03 I literally go,
0:30:04 I don’t tell my comps team.
0:30:05 I don’t tell anyone else.
0:30:07 They all go bananas when this happens.
0:30:07 But I’m like, look,
0:30:08 I’m just going to get out there
0:30:10 and drive for two, three, four hours
0:30:11 in the Bay Area,
0:30:13 which is where I live.
0:30:15 And it’s so great.
0:30:16 So first, here are the things.
0:30:17 First of all,
0:30:18 you learn what it’s like to be a driver, right?
0:30:20 You learn the stress you’re under.
0:30:20 You learn the stress you’re under.
0:30:21 You’re simultaneously trying to figure out
0:30:23 what the person in the backseat wants,
0:30:24 where you’re going to go,
0:30:26 whether you’re going to take
0:30:27 another ride afterwards.
0:30:28 And you have all these
0:30:29 kind of interesting tools
0:30:30 which tell you where the demand is.
0:30:32 And you can sort of draw a circle
0:30:32 and say,
0:30:33 I only want to drive within this area
0:30:34 because I got to get home
0:30:35 by five o’clock
0:30:36 to see my wife
0:30:36 or whatever it is.
0:30:39 So it’s sort of more complicated
0:30:39 than people realize
0:30:40 to juggle all this stuff.
0:30:41 And so you get a real sense of that.
0:30:43 And so inevitably,
0:30:43 you know,
0:30:45 I come home just on the driver’s side
0:30:46 with a whole bunch of ideas
0:30:47 for the driver team
0:30:48 about ways we can make
0:30:49 this information
0:30:51 a little easier to understand,
0:30:51 you know,
0:30:52 make this a little bit bigger
0:30:53 or change this,
0:30:54 whatever it is.
0:30:56 Then from the driver’s side,
0:30:56 it’s great.
0:30:57 Excuse me,
0:30:57 from the rider’s side,
0:30:58 it’s great.
0:30:58 It’s great.
0:30:59 Like I always ask,
0:30:59 you know,
0:31:01 how come you chose this today?
0:31:01 How come you chose Lyft?
0:31:02 I don’t say us.
0:31:03 And, you know,
0:31:04 sometimes people are very precise.
0:31:05 Sometimes people are not.
0:31:06 By the way,
0:31:07 sometimes people don’t want to talk.
0:31:08 You can kind of tell that
0:31:09 like the first 10 or 15 seconds.
0:31:10 I think you might have drove Scott.
0:31:11 Yeah, that was Scott.
0:31:11 Yeah.
0:31:12 Oh yeah, shoot, shoot, shoot.
0:31:13 I think I drove you too.
0:31:14 Well,
0:31:14 but I’ll tell you
0:31:16 such a funny story about this.
0:31:16 I have a billion,
0:31:18 a lot of people get in
0:31:18 and you can tell
0:31:20 like their vibe is not like
0:31:20 I now want to have
0:31:21 a 15 minute conversation.
0:31:23 But if I ask,
0:31:24 how’s your day going?
0:31:25 Oh my God.
0:31:25 It’s like,
0:31:26 I’m the bartender.
0:31:28 I’m like frigging shaking drinks
0:31:29 up at the front of the car,
0:31:29 like talking about
0:31:30 their recent divorce.
0:31:31 There’s a woman I picked up
0:31:35 a guy’s house
0:31:35 and I said,
0:31:36 what’s going on?
0:31:36 She said,
0:31:36 well,
0:31:38 he broke up with me a year ago
0:31:39 but then my boyfriend
0:31:40 broke up with me last night
0:31:41 so I went over to his house.
0:31:41 Anyway,
0:31:42 we ended up having a conversation
0:31:43 about making wise choices
0:31:44 which was super fun.
0:31:45 Then another conversation
0:31:46 with a guy
0:31:47 that wanted career advice
0:31:49 when he found out who I was.
0:31:50 We spent another 15 minutes
0:31:50 in the car
0:31:51 after the thing was over.
0:31:52 My favorite ones
0:31:53 are ones where I really
0:31:54 learned something
0:31:55 about what the rider wants.
0:31:57 So there’s a woman named Anne
0:31:58 and I picked her up
0:31:58 in Sausalito
0:31:59 a couple of months ago.
0:31:59 Actually,
0:32:00 it was last year
0:32:00 at this point.
0:32:01 Time flies.
0:32:02 She was so stressed out
0:32:03 because she said
0:32:04 every morning I wake up
0:32:05 and the prices bounce around
0:32:07 between Sausalito
0:32:08 and San Francisco
0:32:09 a ton.
0:32:11 If it’s less than 20 bucks,
0:32:13 I’ll take a Lyft.
0:32:14 If it’s more than 40 bucks,
0:32:15 I’ll stay home.
0:32:15 If it’s 30 bucks,
0:32:16 it’s kind of a crapshoot.
0:32:17 But today,
0:32:18 it’s somebody’s birthday
0:32:18 in my office.
0:32:19 She had donuts.
0:32:20 So anyway,
0:32:20 literally,
0:32:21 so we have this whole conversation.
0:32:22 So at the end,
0:32:22 I’m like,
0:32:22 well,
0:32:23 I’m the CEO of Lyft
0:32:24 so she goes bananas
0:32:25 and all over the car
0:32:26 which is super fun.
0:32:27 And then we start
0:32:28 to develop this product
0:32:29 called Price Lock
0:32:29 and it really was for her.
0:32:30 It really was for her.
0:32:31 I wanted to lock the price in
0:32:32 so now for $2.99,
0:32:33 I’m going to always be closing.
0:32:34 $2.99,
0:32:35 you can lock in the price
0:32:36 for a certain route.
0:32:37 It stops all the bouncing around.
0:32:38 It’s a great product
0:32:38 and people love it.
0:32:40 I was actually just on the phone
0:32:40 with her a couple of weeks ago.
0:32:41 She actually,
0:32:41 you know,
0:32:42 we were talking about
0:32:42 some other stuff
0:32:43 because now she’s,
0:32:43 you know,
0:32:45 I use her to kind of
0:32:46 ping her from time to time.
0:32:47 And so that’s kind of
0:32:47 what happens.
0:32:48 So the,
0:32:49 you know,
0:32:50 the short answer is
0:32:51 not only do I learn a lot
0:32:52 but I,
0:32:53 and I get conviction
0:32:54 around certain things.
0:32:54 Conviction,
0:32:56 like we have to solve this problem
0:32:56 and we got to deal with it.
0:32:57 But I also,
0:32:58 and it gives me frankly
0:33:00 some sort of moral authority
0:33:00 you might say
0:33:01 beyond just I’m the CEO.
0:33:01 So,
0:33:02 you know,
0:33:02 that’s a,
0:33:03 so it’s,
0:33:03 that’s helpful.
0:33:05 But it also just reminds me
0:33:06 every single day
0:33:07 what an important part
0:33:08 of people’s lives we are.
0:33:08 So David,
0:33:10 as you were a driver,
0:33:11 if you’ve ever had a passenger
0:33:12 say one of the following things,
0:33:15 just drive please
0:33:16 or you’re,
0:33:19 or you’re going the wrong way
0:33:22 or just do what the fucking app says boss.
0:33:23 It’s not that hard.
0:33:23 Then,
0:33:24 then you may have driven me.
0:33:25 You may have driven me.
0:33:26 By the way,
0:33:27 I think I probably have the lowest,
0:33:29 I’m not one of those people
0:33:29 that’s really nice.
0:33:31 You’re probably banned from the app.
0:33:32 That’s why you use Lyft.
0:33:32 Yeah,
0:33:34 I don’t think you actually are allowed.
0:33:34 Yeah,
0:33:34 yeah,
0:33:34 yeah.
0:33:35 Maybe that’s it.
0:33:37 Anyways,
0:33:39 making friends wherever I go.
0:33:40 I can tell.
0:33:40 David,
0:33:42 I’m just sort of curious
0:33:44 to get your 30,000 foot view
0:33:45 on where do you think,
0:33:48 in generally transportation,
0:33:50 when you think about,
0:33:51 you know,
0:33:53 electric or rail
0:33:55 or a super app,
0:33:57 like what trends do you see
0:33:59 in transportation?
0:33:59 And you and I have had
0:34:01 some really interesting conversations
0:34:03 about trying to get people
0:34:04 out of their house
0:34:05 and get them connected.
0:34:06 But more broadly,
0:34:08 even beyond kind of ride hailing,
0:34:09 do you see any big,
0:34:11 big trends in transportation?
0:34:12 The rite of passage
0:34:13 of the 16-year-old
0:34:14 of getting his own,
0:34:15 her own driver,
0:34:16 their own driver’s license
0:34:17 is kind of done.
0:34:17 So strange,
0:34:18 isn’t it?
0:34:19 Where did you grow up?
0:34:20 It was everything
0:34:20 when I was growing up.
0:34:21 It was everything.
0:34:22 I grew up in Bethesda, Maryland.
0:34:23 I’m not proud to say this,
0:34:25 but I failed my first driver test.
0:34:25 Me too.
0:34:26 Oh,
0:34:26 Ed,
0:34:27 what a mistake for Ed
0:34:28 to let me know that.
0:34:30 Oh my God.
0:34:31 Oh,
0:34:32 you’re going to regret that.
0:34:34 Me and the CEO of Lyft.
0:34:35 I’m in good company.
0:34:36 Oh my God.
0:34:37 I’m literally the GRU
0:34:39 that has the leverageable information
0:34:40 against Ed Elson now.
0:34:41 I’m sorry.
0:34:41 Go ahead, David.
0:34:43 And I got to tell the story
0:34:44 because I felt so misled.
0:34:45 It was,
0:34:46 and it’s a total trick.
0:34:46 It was a total trick.
0:34:48 It was one of those closed courses
0:34:49 and you finish,
0:34:50 you parallel park,
0:34:50 which was like,
0:34:51 that’s the thing.
0:34:51 I was like,
0:34:52 you got to get the parallel park.
0:34:52 And I say,
0:34:53 parallel park.
0:34:54 Then you pull up
0:34:55 and the instructor’s like,
0:34:56 that’s great.
0:34:57 Now just go over there
0:34:57 by the wall
0:34:58 and we’re all done.
0:34:59 And what you don’t see
0:35:00 is the stop sign
0:35:01 that’s right there.
0:35:02 And you don’t act,
0:35:03 you don’t do a full stop
0:35:04 because you’re just so excited.
0:35:05 Anyway,
0:35:05 I blew through it.
0:35:06 Bummer.
0:35:07 But anyway,
0:35:08 past the second time.
0:35:08 Long story.
0:35:09 So back to the thing.
0:35:11 I think freedom
0:35:12 is what that was all about,
0:35:13 right?
0:35:13 I can do my own thing.
0:35:14 I can make my own choices.
0:35:15 And now you have different ways
0:35:16 to have freedom.
0:35:17 Mostly, frankly,
0:35:18 you know,
0:35:19 us and the other guys.
0:35:19 You jump in the car
0:35:20 and whatever.
0:35:21 So that’s a big,
0:35:21 big shift.
0:35:23 Then the car ownership.
0:35:24 What’s your first car,
0:35:24 right?
0:35:25 I still remember my first car.
0:35:26 I was a Honda Accord.
0:35:27 My mom actually gave it to me.
0:35:28 It was used.
0:35:29 It was her boyfriends,
0:35:29 you know,
0:35:30 all this sort of stuff.
0:35:32 I drove it senior year in college.
0:35:32 You know,
0:35:33 it was kind of my thing.
0:35:34 Chick magnet.
0:35:34 I don’t want to brag,
0:35:35 but whatever.
0:35:36 Anyway,
0:35:37 that’s kind of gone too.
0:35:37 I mean,
0:35:38 of course,
0:35:39 people will eventually
0:35:39 buy their first car,
0:35:40 but it’ll be later in their life.
0:35:41 So these are sort of,
0:35:42 you know,
0:35:43 very foundational sorts of things.
0:35:45 Let me flip to the other side
0:35:45 for a second.
0:35:47 As you get closer
0:35:47 in your life,
0:35:48 we’re all getting older,
0:35:48 right?
0:35:49 It’s happening.
0:35:51 And demographically,
0:35:51 you know,
0:35:51 just also,
0:35:53 just laws of physics.
0:35:55 I’m going to promote a second.
0:35:56 We just launched a product
0:35:56 called Lift Silver
0:35:57 a couple of months ago.
0:35:58 It’s all about
0:35:59 getting older people out
0:36:01 and engaged
0:36:01 because that’s how
0:36:02 you live your best life
0:36:03 is when you’re out engaged
0:36:04 and you’re at your kid’s soccer game
0:36:06 or you’re at your doctor’s appointment
0:36:06 that you didn’t miss
0:36:07 because you don’t want
0:36:08 to drive yourself
0:36:08 because you’re worried
0:36:09 about driving,
0:36:09 whatever it is.
0:36:10 Anyway,
0:36:11 it’s been a massive hit.
0:36:12 Massive,
0:36:12 massive hit.
0:36:13 Taken off much faster
0:36:13 than I hoped
0:36:14 and I was hoping,
0:36:15 I had big hopes.
0:36:16 Little people hugged me
0:36:17 because of this product.
0:36:17 So I think
0:36:18 if you look at
0:36:18 the both ends
0:36:19 of people’s lives,
0:36:20 transportation is going
0:36:21 to play a new role
0:36:22 largely because
0:36:23 other people are doing
0:36:23 the driving
0:36:24 and you don’t have to.
0:36:25 You can text.
0:36:25 You can do whatever
0:36:26 the frig you want to.
0:36:26 You know,
0:36:28 you can enjoy your life
0:36:28 while this is happening.
0:36:29 So what does that mean?
0:36:30 That means car
0:36:31 and then autonomous,
0:36:31 of course.
0:36:32 So as autonomous happens,
0:36:33 it’s not just about
0:36:34 somebody else driving the car
0:36:35 or the car driving itself.
0:36:36 It’s about,
0:36:36 you know,
0:36:38 lounge mode.
0:36:39 You’re going to be reclining.
0:36:40 You’re going to be going to sleep.
0:36:40 You’re going to be
0:36:41 in your camper,
0:36:42 you know,
0:36:42 at night
0:36:43 and then it’s going to,
0:36:44 you wake up the next morning
0:36:45 and there you are at Yellowstone
0:36:46 and it’s driven you,
0:36:46 all this sort of stuff.
0:36:48 So I think,
0:36:48 and then when you think
0:36:49 even bigger,
0:36:50 you mentioned things like
0:36:51 vertical takeoff and landing.
0:36:52 Like that is going to happen.
0:36:52 You can’t,
0:36:54 I’m in New York City right now.
0:36:55 Already I’ve had a conversation
0:36:56 about some guy
0:36:57 who actually works for us,
0:36:58 he’s an amazing guy,
0:36:59 but he was frustrated
0:36:59 about how long it took him
0:37:02 to get to a vacation house
0:37:02 in the Hamptons
0:37:03 just like everybody does.
0:37:04 They’re frustrated by that
0:37:05 and inevitably he talks
0:37:07 to helicopters and drones
0:37:07 and all this sort of thing.
0:37:09 So I think maybe
0:37:10 a very long way of saying
0:37:11 the transportation,
0:37:12 I think for some period of time
0:37:13 was super novel,
0:37:13 right?
0:37:13 Model T,
0:37:14 oh my God,
0:37:14 it’s not a horse,
0:37:15 amazing.
0:37:16 And then it was kind of everywhere.
0:37:17 Oh and then there’s
0:37:17 the highway system,
0:37:18 right?
0:37:19 Then it’s big open road
0:37:19 and Route 66
0:37:20 and interstates
0:37:21 and all this sort of stuff.
0:37:22 And then,
0:37:22 you know,
0:37:23 trains were cool
0:37:23 and they were kind of
0:37:24 not cool in the United States
0:37:25 and then planes were cool
0:37:26 and then they’re kind of annoying.
0:37:27 And like all that stuff
0:37:28 is true
0:37:29 and I think there’s
0:37:30 another big thing
0:37:30 and I think it’s when
0:37:31 it becomes kind of cool
0:37:32 and fun again
0:37:33 because autonomous
0:37:34 drives you there
0:37:35 because you don’t have
0:37:35 to actually do a lot
0:37:36 of the work
0:37:37 and you can live
0:37:37 your best life
0:37:38 and it’s going to get
0:37:39 and my,
0:37:39 you know,
0:37:40 I will bring it back to that.
0:37:41 I want as many people
0:37:42 off their frigging couch
0:37:43 and not watching,
0:37:44 you know,
0:37:45 Netflix or getting food delivery
0:37:46 as much as I like that
0:37:47 and they’re great partners of ours
0:37:48 but man,
0:37:48 I want them out in the world,
0:37:49 out in the world.
0:37:50 That’s how we live
0:37:50 our best lives.
0:37:52 just from an organizational
0:37:52 perspective,
0:37:55 like how are you supposed
0:37:58 to maintain strong service
0:37:59 when you’re managing
0:38:01 a company of thousands
0:38:01 of employees?
0:38:03 Like, I mean,
0:38:04 just for context,
0:38:05 I’m reading this book
0:38:07 Unreasonable Hospitality
0:38:07 right now
0:38:08 which talks about
0:38:08 all this stuff
0:38:10 in terms of the restaurant industry
0:38:13 and, you know,
0:38:15 it’s hard to do that
0:38:16 at a restaurant
0:38:16 where you’re managing
0:38:18 like 20, 30, 40 people
0:38:22 and I can just assume
0:38:23 that as you scale,
0:38:25 it becomes increasingly difficult
0:38:27 not only to manage
0:38:27 but also just to have
0:38:29 any contact
0:38:30 with the customer experience.
0:38:31 Like, it just,
0:38:32 you become so detached
0:38:34 when you’re managing
0:38:35 this large of an organization.
0:38:37 So, just give us
0:38:38 some of your philosophy,
0:38:39 your management philosophies
0:38:42 on how you maintain service
0:38:43 as you scale
0:38:45 and as you build out
0:38:47 a company of literally
0:38:48 thousands of people.
0:38:50 I love every single thing
0:38:51 about this question.
0:38:51 First of all,
0:38:52 I read Unreasonable Hospitality
0:38:54 about a year ago
0:38:55 and it changed my life
0:38:56 because I started to think
0:38:57 about this very, very directly.
0:38:59 Let me give you
0:39:00 a little bit of data.
0:39:01 So, we have 3,000 people
0:39:02 who are employees at Lyft
0:39:04 but we have 1.5 million people
0:39:05 who drive on the platform.
0:39:06 They are independent contractors
0:39:07 and it’s not just
0:39:08 a legal distinction.
0:39:09 What it is
0:39:10 is an acknowledgement
0:39:11 of what you’re saying.
0:39:14 It is very, very distributed, right?
0:39:15 And people drive
0:39:16 for all sorts of reasons.
0:39:17 All sorts of reasons.
0:39:17 Okay.
0:39:20 So, I actually put this question
0:39:22 to two super interesting people
0:39:23 over the last six months.
0:39:24 One was Thomas Keller
0:39:25 who runs the French Laundry
0:39:26 as you know.
0:39:27 One was Eric Ruppart
0:39:28 who runs Le Bernardin
0:39:29 in New York City.
0:39:31 And both of those
0:39:31 and I asked the same question
0:39:33 about how would you create
0:39:34 the level of culture
0:39:35 around service
0:39:37 not just for the 30, 40, 50 people
0:39:37 who work for your restaurant
0:39:39 but for 1.5 million people
0:39:40 who don’t even work for it.
0:39:40 How would you do that?
0:39:41 And both of them
0:39:42 are so interesting.
0:39:42 I mean, they get thousands
0:39:43 of questions
0:39:43 and mostly like,
0:39:44 yeah, yeah, whatever, whatever.
0:39:45 Both of them
0:39:46 and I don’t think I’m speaking
0:39:46 out of school here
0:39:47 to say like they stopped
0:39:48 in their tracks.
0:39:48 They’re like,
0:39:50 that is a mind-blowing question.
0:39:50 That’s a mind-blowing question.
0:39:51 Like, let me help you
0:39:52 think about that.
0:39:53 And so, both of them
0:39:53 gave me some ideas
0:39:54 but I can tell you
0:39:55 that that is what I’m
0:39:57 hell-bent to solve that problem.
0:39:58 Hell-bent to solve that problem.
0:40:00 And I hope 10 years from now
0:40:00 when people look back
0:40:01 and they say,
0:40:01 you know,
0:40:02 what did this guy do?
0:40:03 Oh my God,
0:40:03 he somehow figured out
0:40:06 how to crack the code
0:40:07 on getting 1.5 million drivers
0:40:08 to level up their service
0:40:09 to a level of consistency
0:40:10 and excellence
0:40:11 that you might typically see
0:40:13 in a high-end restaurant.
0:40:14 Let me say one last thing.
0:40:15 From a million miles away,
0:40:15 you think driving,
0:40:17 you have a certain sense
0:40:18 of what driving is.
0:40:19 And it may be
0:40:20 sort of a transactional sense
0:40:21 that people do it
0:40:22 when they can’t get another job
0:40:23 or when they need extra money,
0:40:23 whatever.
0:40:23 People drive
0:40:24 for all kinds of reasons
0:40:25 but here’s what’s true.
0:40:27 Drivers really like driving.
0:40:27 Most of them.
0:40:28 Some of them don’t.
0:40:29 But most of them really like it
0:40:29 and they actually have
0:40:30 a lot of pride.
0:40:32 So, what we try to do
0:40:33 is we try to say,
0:40:33 okay, drivers,
0:40:35 it’s not just about
0:40:35 how much money
0:40:36 we’re paying you.
0:40:37 It’s not just about,
0:40:38 it’s how can we help you
0:40:40 move through your life.
0:40:41 And so, we have
0:40:42 this accomplishment letter thing.
0:40:42 You can literally,
0:40:43 as a driver,
0:40:44 come in and push a button.
0:40:44 It says,
0:40:45 Scott started driving.
0:40:46 It’s AI-driven.
0:40:47 Scott started driving
0:40:48 18 months ago.
0:40:49 He’s a super grouchy driver.
0:40:50 You should never have,
0:40:51 no, that’s not at all.
0:40:52 But like he’s one
0:40:53 of our top 5% drivers.
0:40:54 You know,
0:40:55 he always shows up on time.
0:40:56 Here are three comments
0:40:57 that are sort of representative
0:40:58 of his driving skills.
0:40:59 And we have stories
0:40:59 and then, you know,
0:41:01 I would hire Scott
0:41:03 for any service-oriented job
0:41:04 you’re looking for.
0:41:05 So, that could be baggage handler.
0:41:07 It could be a front receptionist
0:41:08 at a hotel.
0:41:09 We have amazing stories.
0:41:10 There’s a guy who did this
0:41:10 and literally,
0:41:11 he couldn’t get a job.
0:41:12 Then he attached his reference letter
0:41:14 and now he’s working at Ikea
0:41:15 in exactly this way.
0:41:15 So,
0:41:17 such a long way of saying,
0:41:19 but I hope you’re getting the point.
0:41:20 If we invest in our drivers
0:41:21 and we help them understand
0:41:22 that they’re not just
0:41:23 in the driving industry,
0:41:24 they’re in the service industry.
0:41:25 And we help support them,
0:41:26 not just by paying them
0:41:27 in a certain way,
0:41:28 but actually by supporting
0:41:29 their life dreams.
0:41:30 And we do a bunch of other things
0:41:30 with them to upskill
0:41:31 and so forth and so on.
0:41:32 I think we have a shot.
0:41:33 And then we’re very clear
0:41:34 on what our values are
0:41:35 and what our expectations are
0:41:37 and take our incentive systems
0:41:37 and align them.
0:41:39 We have a driver loyalty program
0:41:40 that is now starting
0:41:41 to reward drivers
0:41:42 for exhibiting better service
0:41:44 and a new feedback mechanism
0:41:45 that allows riders
0:41:46 to help drivers see
0:41:48 how they can improve their service.
0:41:49 Then you can start to create
0:41:50 a sort of a flywheel ecosystem
0:41:52 that I think really does level up.
0:41:54 I just learned from your answer
0:41:54 that Thomas Keller,
0:41:56 one of the greatest chefs
0:41:57 of all time,
0:42:00 is advising Lyft
0:42:01 on how to run the business,
0:42:03 which I just love.
0:42:03 And yet,
0:42:06 we’re not hearing
0:42:07 any of the advice.
0:42:08 We can’t get a nugget.
0:42:09 We can’t get
0:42:10 just a little bit.
0:42:11 Did you see what I just did there?
0:42:12 I just completely
0:42:13 jumped over that.
0:42:13 100%.
0:42:14 We can’t hear anything.
0:42:15 Totally.
0:42:16 Totally.
0:42:17 100%.
0:42:18 All I can tell you
0:42:19 is he was very interested
0:42:20 and I do have an excellent selfie
0:42:21 of the two of us
0:42:21 standing together.
0:42:22 Oh, wow.
0:42:22 Okay.
0:42:24 Well, maybe you can send us
0:42:25 the selfie
0:42:27 because that in and of itself
0:42:28 is fascinating.
0:42:29 Happy to do.
0:42:30 He might be surprised
0:42:31 to hear that he’s advising us,
0:42:31 by the way.
0:42:32 I think it was a little bit
0:42:33 more of a one and done
0:42:34 type of conversation.
0:42:34 But anyway,
0:42:35 I’ll send you the selfie
0:42:36 and who knows, maybe.
0:42:36 You know, we’ll see.
0:42:40 We’ll be right back.
0:42:51 Workday knows
0:42:52 there are two kinds
0:42:53 of people in business.
0:42:54 Backward thinkers
0:42:56 and forward thinkers.
0:42:57 And when you’re
0:42:58 a forward thinker,
0:43:00 you need an AI platform
0:43:01 that thinks like you do.
0:43:02 Built to evolve
0:43:03 with your organization,
0:43:05 Workday reimagines
0:43:06 how you manage
0:43:07 your people, money,
0:43:08 and agents
0:43:09 for long-term success.
0:43:10 Bringing all your
0:43:12 most valuable resources
0:43:13 onto one powerful platform
0:43:15 so you can add value
0:43:16 even faster.
0:43:17 Workday.
0:43:18 Moving business
0:43:19 forever forward.
0:43:25 We’re back
0:43:26 with Profity Markets.
0:43:27 One of the things
0:43:28 that we have been talking
0:43:29 a lot about
0:43:29 on this podcast
0:43:30 in relation to
0:43:31 what has been happening
0:43:33 in politics,
0:43:35 we have been
0:43:37 somewhat surprised
0:43:38 at the lack
0:43:39 of pushback
0:43:41 from the business
0:43:42 leader community
0:43:44 against some
0:43:44 of the policies
0:43:45 that we’ve seen.
0:43:47 we could talk
0:43:49 about immigration
0:43:49 policies,
0:43:51 but more so
0:43:51 what we’re seeing
0:43:52 with tariffs
0:43:53 and the ways
0:43:54 that that is affecting
0:43:54 our economy
0:43:55 and the ways
0:43:56 that it is going
0:43:57 to affect our economy.
0:43:59 And we have been
0:44:00 surprised by
0:44:01 how many
0:44:02 public company
0:44:03 CEOs
0:44:06 are kind of
0:44:06 shrugging
0:44:09 or capitulating
0:44:09 or capitulating
0:44:10 or whatever
0:44:10 it is,
0:44:11 sucking up
0:44:11 to the president.
0:44:14 I’d just like
0:44:14 to get your
0:44:15 perspective
0:44:16 on that point.
0:44:19 How do you feel
0:44:21 about your role
0:44:22 as a public
0:44:23 company CEO?
0:44:26 As someone
0:44:26 who runs
0:44:28 just a very large
0:44:29 public company,
0:44:30 have you been
0:44:31 surprised by this
0:44:31 too?
0:44:33 And do you have
0:44:33 any thoughts
0:44:35 on this topic?
0:44:36 I have been
0:44:36 surprised.
0:44:37 I do have
0:44:37 thoughts.
0:44:40 I think the fear
0:44:40 of retaliation
0:44:41 is real.
0:44:43 And I think
0:44:43 that stops
0:44:44 a lot of people
0:44:44 from saying
0:44:44 anything.
0:44:45 You know,
0:44:45 I think there’s
0:44:46 a general view
0:44:47 of let’s not
0:44:48 be the tallest
0:44:48 poppy,
0:44:49 is sometimes
0:44:49 the term
0:44:49 people say,
0:44:51 so that I
0:44:51 don’t get
0:44:51 targeted,
0:44:52 frankly.
0:44:52 I think
0:44:53 that’s a big
0:44:53 part of it.
0:44:55 I will also
0:44:55 say I’ve been
0:44:55 disappointed.
0:44:56 I think there are
0:44:57 executives who
0:44:58 had the opportunity
0:44:58 to speak up
0:44:59 and chose not to,
0:45:00 and I think
0:45:00 they probably
0:45:00 could have.
0:45:01 And I think
0:45:02 that the world
0:45:03 would be a little
0:45:03 better as a result.
0:45:05 Now, I also have
0:45:06 to say, I’ve
0:45:07 spoken to people
0:45:07 in the current
0:45:08 administration,
0:45:08 and there are
0:45:09 some very,
0:45:09 very competent
0:45:10 people there.
0:45:11 That sounds
0:45:12 like a backhanded
0:45:12 compliment.
0:45:13 Very, very
0:45:13 passionate people
0:45:13 who are actually
0:45:14 really trying to
0:45:15 do, you know,
0:45:15 quote, the right
0:45:16 thing, unquote.
0:45:17 Trying to make
0:45:18 business easier to
0:45:18 get done,
0:45:19 trying to, you
0:45:20 know, reduce
0:45:20 stuff that probably
0:45:21 was, you know,
0:45:22 made sense
0:45:22 at a certain
0:45:23 time and no
0:45:23 longer does.
0:45:23 So I actually
0:45:24 think there’s
0:45:24 some genuine,
0:45:25 I’m talking about
0:45:26 a slightly different
0:45:27 level maybe from
0:45:27 what you’re
0:45:27 talking about,
0:45:28 but I think
0:45:28 there’s some
0:45:29 genuine desire
0:45:29 within the
0:45:30 administration to
0:45:31 do the thing
0:45:32 that sort of
0:45:32 everyone kind of
0:45:33 wants, which is
0:45:33 like, let’s get
0:45:34 rid of stuff that
0:45:34 doesn’t make sense
0:45:35 and let’s sort
0:45:36 of be, you know,
0:45:36 kind of a raging
0:45:37 centrist.
0:45:37 I think, Scott,
0:45:38 you say this
0:45:38 sometimes.
0:45:38 I’m talking
0:45:39 about from
0:45:39 kind of a
0:45:39 regulation
0:45:40 perspective and
0:45:40 whatever.
0:45:41 So anyway,
0:45:41 that’s a little
0:45:42 bit of a side
0:45:42 point, but I
0:45:42 just want to
0:45:43 make sure
0:45:44 that folks
0:45:44 heard that.
0:45:46 I did a little
0:45:47 video a couple
0:45:48 weeks ago where
0:45:49 I talked about
0:45:49 values and the
0:45:50 importance of
0:45:50 leading with
0:45:51 purpose and some
0:45:51 of the values
0:45:52 that we demonstrate
0:45:53 as a rideshare
0:45:53 business.
0:45:54 We have a
0:45:54 product called
0:45:55 Women Plus
0:45:55 Connect that
0:45:56 allows women to
0:45:58 preferentially choose
0:45:58 each other as
0:46:00 rider driver and
0:46:00 it makes them
0:46:01 feel safe, it
0:46:01 makes them feel
0:46:02 secure, it drives
0:46:03 our business, it’s
0:46:03 a very popular
0:46:03 feature.
0:46:05 It’s the type of
0:46:05 thing that I
0:46:06 wanted to speak
0:46:06 very clearly about
0:46:07 and say this is
0:46:07 something that we’ll
0:46:08 continue to be
0:46:09 committed to and
0:46:09 continue to actually
0:46:10 invest in.
0:46:12 I could go on
0:46:13 and on.
0:46:14 We talk a lot
0:46:14 about how our
0:46:15 values show up in
0:46:16 the way we do
0:46:17 business and that
0:46:18 those values
0:46:18 strengthen our
0:46:18 business.
0:46:19 It’s one of the
0:46:20 reasons why we
0:46:20 are gaining share
0:46:21 on the other
0:46:21 guys is because
0:46:22 people respond to
0:46:23 it, we’re
0:46:24 targeting communities
0:46:24 that maybe other
0:46:25 folks are
0:46:25 overlooking.
0:46:27 I think if I
0:46:28 wanted to sum it
0:46:29 up, I might say
0:46:30 my surprise comes
0:46:31 both from a
0:46:31 little bit of a
0:46:32 values perspective
0:46:33 but also I think
0:46:33 there’s a way to
0:46:34 sort of, you
0:46:34 might say thread
0:46:35 the needle,
0:46:35 like really kind
0:46:36 of say I’m
0:46:36 going to stand
0:46:36 up for my
0:46:37 values and it’s
0:46:37 going to drive
0:46:38 my business
0:46:39 forward and
0:46:39 if you don’t
0:46:40 like it, challenge
0:46:40 me because I’m
0:46:41 okay with it.
0:46:42 I think I’m on
0:46:43 the right side of
0:46:43 this one.
0:46:44 You have a very
0:46:45 impressive background.
0:46:45 I don’t know the
0:46:46 many people who
0:46:46 started at
0:46:47 Microsoft, went
0:46:47 to Amazon and
0:46:48 then spent 12
0:46:49 years trying to
0:46:50 help encourage
0:46:51 kids to read and
0:46:52 then went back to
0:46:53 be the CEO of a
0:46:53 public company.
0:46:54 We’re the same
0:46:55 age.
0:46:56 You’re obviously
0:46:57 economically secure.
0:46:58 You’ve checked a
0:46:58 lot of boxes.
0:47:00 What’s left for you?
0:47:02 What does success
0:47:02 look like for you in
0:47:03 five or ten years?
0:47:04 If you think these
0:47:05 are the box or
0:47:06 boxes left for me
0:47:07 to check, what
0:47:07 are those things?
0:47:09 Look, I first
0:47:09 want to acknowledge
0:47:10 I have been super,
0:47:11 super lucky and
0:47:12 I’ve made some
0:47:12 good choices along
0:47:13 the way.
0:47:13 Of course, both
0:47:14 those things are
0:47:14 true.
0:47:15 I was the 37th
0:47:15 employee at
0:47:15 Amazon.
0:47:19 Not that many
0:47:19 people get to
0:47:19 say that,
0:47:20 actually.
0:47:20 I think just
0:47:20 one.
0:47:23 Okay, so I
0:47:24 don’t know that I
0:47:25 have a super
0:47:27 clear view of
0:47:27 what’s next.
0:47:28 I can tell you
0:47:28 I’m absolutely
0:47:29 loving my job.
0:47:29 I literally
0:47:30 jump out of bed
0:47:30 even on
0:47:31 Saturdays.
0:47:32 my wife is
0:47:33 like, David,
0:47:34 I’m like, I wish
0:47:34 it were Monday.
0:47:35 I was like, settle
0:47:36 down, David, just
0:47:36 settle down.
0:47:39 But now let’s
0:47:39 zoom out.
0:47:40 Every Saturday
0:47:41 morning I do
0:47:41 something.
0:47:41 I should do two
0:47:42 things Saturday
0:47:42 morning.
0:47:42 You might find
0:47:43 both these
0:47:43 interesting.
0:47:45 The second
0:47:45 thing I do is I
0:47:46 write a letter to
0:47:47 our board of
0:47:47 directors every
0:47:48 single week.
0:47:49 Email every
0:47:49 single week.
0:47:50 And it’s always
0:47:51 structured exactly
0:47:51 the same way.
0:47:52 The good, the
0:47:53 bad, that’s it.
0:47:54 Then there’s some
0:47:55 data that’s consistent
0:47:55 from week to week
0:47:56 and maybe a few
0:47:57 pictures to tell a
0:47:57 story.
0:47:58 But the good and
0:47:58 the bad, I find
0:47:59 it very grounding.
0:47:59 I think it kind
0:48:00 of helps me think
0:48:00 of what we
0:48:01 accomplished over
0:48:01 this week and
0:48:02 what we’re kind
0:48:02 of up to and
0:48:03 helps keep the
0:48:03 board very
0:48:04 involved.
0:48:04 And so the
0:48:05 board meeting
0:48:05 is going to be
0:48:05 much more
0:48:06 productive as
0:48:06 a result.
0:48:07 That’s a total
0:48:07 side comment,
0:48:07 but it’s just
0:48:09 Saturday morning.
0:48:10 The first thing
0:48:10 I do is more
0:48:11 important, which
0:48:12 is I write in a
0:48:13 physical journal for
0:48:13 about a half an
0:48:14 hour about
0:48:15 typically four
0:48:15 things.
0:48:16 I write, how’s
0:48:16 my work going?
0:48:18 How’s my
0:48:19 relationship with
0:48:19 my family?
0:48:21 I have two
0:48:21 daughters, I have
0:48:22 a wife, I have
0:48:23 brothers and so
0:48:23 on.
0:48:24 How’s my
0:48:24 relationship with
0:48:25 my friends?
0:48:26 Am I reaching out
0:48:26 to them?
0:48:27 Have I talked to
0:48:27 somebody this last
0:48:27 week?
0:48:28 Do I have plans to
0:48:28 talk to somebody
0:48:29 this next week?
0:48:30 Whatever it is.
0:48:30 And then how’s
0:48:31 my health?
0:48:31 And by health, I
0:48:32 mean not just
0:48:34 the basics, like
0:48:34 do I have a cold
0:48:35 or not or
0:48:35 whatever it is, but
0:48:37 if I got to
0:48:37 the gym, if I
0:48:38 kind of stayed
0:48:38 active.
0:48:40 So I don’t
0:48:40 know.
0:48:41 And on all
0:48:42 those, I don’t
0:48:42 want to give
0:48:42 myself a five
0:48:43 star rating or
0:48:43 whatever, but I
0:48:44 kind of just
0:48:45 reflect on each
0:48:45 of those things
0:48:46 for a little
0:48:46 bit.
0:48:47 And I suspect
0:48:47 that at age,
0:48:48 I’m better than
0:48:49 60 years old in
0:48:49 a couple of
0:48:50 days, then I’ll
0:48:51 be 70, then
0:48:51 I’ll be 80.
0:48:52 I have a goal
0:48:52 of living to
0:48:53 100, hopefully
0:48:53 healthily.
0:48:54 So I hope,
0:48:55 number one, I’m
0:48:56 alive and on
0:48:56 that path.
0:48:57 Number two, I
0:48:57 hope I’m still
0:48:57 thinking about
0:48:58 those four things
0:48:58 and that I’m
0:48:59 making progress
0:48:59 on all four
0:49:00 and still
0:49:00 loving all four.
0:49:01 So that’s
0:49:02 going to be the
0:49:03 framework.
0:49:03 I don’t know
0:49:04 the specifics.
0:49:05 Done with
0:49:05 questions, Scott?
0:49:06 I’ll wrap this
0:49:06 up.
0:49:07 Yeah, I am.
0:49:07 Okay.
0:49:08 Scott was taking
0:49:09 a moment to
0:49:10 reflect on that.
0:49:11 Scott was
0:49:12 reflecting on
0:49:12 his health.
0:49:13 He was
0:49:13 thinking, I
0:49:14 could see.
0:49:15 I was just
0:49:15 thinking, how
0:49:17 can you go to
0:49:18 Princeton and
0:49:19 fill your first
0:49:20 driver’s desk?
0:49:20 That’s what I
0:49:21 was thinking.
0:49:22 Well, you know
0:49:23 what?
0:49:24 I’m just
0:49:25 reading David’s
0:49:25 bio.
0:49:26 David is also a
0:49:27 tiger, so that’s
0:49:28 two for two.
0:49:29 Princeton, Harvard,
0:49:30 Amazon, Microsoft.
0:49:31 Yeah.
0:49:32 Jesus.
0:49:34 Before we close
0:49:36 here, David, any
0:49:37 advice that you
0:49:38 would give to
0:49:39 young people
0:49:40 starting their
0:49:40 careers?
0:49:41 I mean, a lot
0:49:42 of people look
0:49:42 up to you.
0:49:43 You kind of
0:49:45 reach the
0:49:46 heights in
0:49:46 business in a
0:49:47 lot of ways.
0:49:48 What advice
0:49:48 would you give
0:49:49 to a young
0:49:50 person who’s
0:49:50 just starting
0:49:51 out right now?
0:49:52 I mean, the
0:49:52 first thing I
0:49:53 would say is
0:49:53 don’t stress
0:49:54 about the future
0:49:55 so much.
0:49:55 Gosh, there
0:49:56 are all sorts
0:49:56 of reasons to
0:49:57 worry about the
0:49:57 world right now.
0:49:58 I think we’re
0:49:59 going to be
0:49:59 okay.
0:50:00 And I think
0:50:00 particularly when
0:50:01 you’re in your
0:50:01 20s, you’re
0:50:02 getting so much
0:50:03 incoming of all
0:50:03 the stuff going
0:50:04 on, and you
0:50:04 have so much
0:50:05 pressure to
0:50:05 sort of like,
0:50:06 what is my
0:50:06 thing going to
0:50:06 be?
0:50:06 What’s my
0:50:07 career?
0:50:07 Whatever.
0:50:07 And I’m
0:50:08 really like,
0:50:08 gosh, your
0:50:09 20s is your
0:50:09 time to
0:50:10 explore.
0:50:10 So the
0:50:11 first thing I
0:50:11 would say is
0:50:11 reduce the
0:50:12 stress because I
0:50:12 don’t think it’s
0:50:13 going to help
0:50:13 you.
0:50:13 And second
0:50:14 of all, take
0:50:14 your 20s to
0:50:15 just explore.
0:50:16 Don’t stress
0:50:16 about what is my
0:50:16 career.
0:50:19 In retrospect, I
0:50:19 can tell you what a
0:50:20 beautiful career
0:50:21 I’ve had and
0:50:21 I’ve done all
0:50:21 these.
0:50:22 But no, it was
0:50:23 just all like I
0:50:23 did a thing and
0:50:24 I was good at
0:50:24 that and another
0:50:25 thing, I was good
0:50:25 at that.
0:50:26 Phone call, I just
0:50:27 took the phone
0:50:28 call, I did a
0:50:28 thing.
0:50:29 So anyway, number
0:50:30 one, don’t worry
0:50:31 so much about a
0:50:32 master plan when
0:50:32 you’re a kid, just
0:50:33 explore.
0:50:34 The second thing I
0:50:35 think, and this is,
0:50:36 I mean, the whole
0:50:36 follow your passion
0:50:37 thing is so trite and
0:50:38 people have all
0:50:39 sorts of things about
0:50:40 that, which I get.
0:50:40 I’ve heard you talk
0:50:41 about this, Scott.
0:50:43 But I don’t talk
0:50:43 about it quite that
0:50:43 way.
0:50:44 What I do say
0:50:45 though is, don’t
0:50:45 follow the money.
0:50:46 Don’t follow the
0:50:47 money.
0:50:48 And it’s such a
0:50:49 mistake I see people
0:50:49 make because they
0:50:50 think, oh my God, I’m
0:50:50 going to take this
0:50:51 job because I’m
0:50:51 going to make more
0:50:52 money, effectively.
0:50:53 And it’s like such a
0:50:53 dumbass thing to do.
0:50:54 First of all, there’s
0:50:54 never enough.
0:50:55 There’s literally
0:50:55 never enough.
0:50:57 Quick side thing, my
0:50:57 wife wrote a whole
0:50:58 book on this topic.
0:50:59 It’s called We Need
0:51:00 to Talk, a memoir
0:51:00 about wealth.
0:51:01 It’s been the impact
0:51:01 wealth has had on
0:51:02 our family.
0:51:03 It’s a very personal
0:51:03 story.
0:51:04 It’s a memoir.
0:51:05 I’m a small
0:51:06 supporting character.
0:51:06 You know, other
0:51:07 people are big in
0:51:08 but the point is
0:51:09 that one of the
0:51:09 things she talks about
0:51:10 is there is never
0:51:11 enough.
0:51:11 So don’t be done with
0:51:12 that because that’s a
0:51:12 dumb goal.
0:51:13 You’re setting yourself
0:51:14 up for failure.
0:51:15 On the other hand, do
0:51:16 do the things that
0:51:16 you’re good at.
0:51:17 You do do the things
0:51:17 that you’re good at.
0:51:18 The things that bring
0:51:19 you joy, of course, but
0:51:20 also what you’re good
0:51:20 at.
0:51:21 Because if you’re good
0:51:21 at something, you
0:51:22 will do better.
0:51:23 And if you do better,
0:51:24 you will get
0:51:24 compensated.
0:51:25 And if you’re
0:51:26 compensated, that’ll
0:51:27 make you not exactly
0:51:27 happy, but it’ll give
0:51:28 you more options to do
0:51:29 other things.
0:51:30 And so, you know, I
0:51:31 think probably every
0:51:32 word on this topic
0:51:32 has been said a
0:51:33 million times before,
0:51:34 but that’s just a
0:51:34 kind of my philosophy.
0:51:35 I’m a little bit of a
0:51:36 don’t overplan it.
0:51:37 Don’t overthink it.
0:51:38 Use a little bit of
0:51:38 expiration time in your
0:51:40 20s so you don’t get
0:51:41 on that too early.
0:51:42 But man, oh man, if
0:51:43 there’s one thing, don’t
0:51:44 follow the money because
0:51:45 it’s a loser.
0:51:46 You’ll never get there.
0:51:47 David Risher has
0:51:48 served as CEO of Lyft
0:51:50 since 2023 and as a
0:51:50 member of the board
0:51:51 since 2021.
0:51:52 Prior to Lyft, David
0:51:54 co-founded WorldReader,
0:51:54 a non-profit
0:51:55 organization that has
0:51:56 helped 21 million
0:51:58 people read, served as
0:51:59 a senior vice
0:51:59 president of U.S.
0:52:01 retail at Amazon, and
0:52:01 as a general
0:52:02 manager at
0:52:02 Microsoft.
0:52:04 He holds a B.A. in
0:52:05 comparative literature,
0:52:06 gosh, I can’t speak
0:52:07 today, from Princeton
0:52:09 University, and an
0:52:10 MBA from Harvard
0:52:11 Business School.
0:52:13 David, thank you
0:52:14 very much for joining
0:52:15 us.
0:52:16 This was great, and
0:52:17 go Tigers.
0:52:18 Go Tigers, there you
0:52:18 go.
0:52:19 That was a lot of fun,
0:52:20 you guys.
0:52:20 Thank you, Ed.
0:52:21 Thank you, Scott.
0:52:21 Yeah, that was fun.
0:52:22 Thank you for doing
0:52:22 that, David.
0:52:34 Scott, what did you
0:52:34 think of that?
0:52:35 So, a quantitative
0:52:36 observation and a
0:52:37 qualitative, the
0:52:38 quantitative one is, I
0:52:39 think he represents the
0:52:40 company really well.
0:52:41 I had no idea they had
0:52:42 that level of market
0:52:42 share.
0:52:44 I thought, quite
0:52:45 frankly, I thought, and
0:52:46 this speaks to probably,
0:52:47 yes, a problem with the
0:52:48 comms department, I
0:52:49 thought Lyft was dying a
0:52:49 slow death.
0:52:51 I did not think they were
0:52:52 grabbing market share, and
0:52:53 given that the market is
0:52:54 growing, I just didn’t
0:52:55 know that.
0:52:57 In the U.S., we should
0:52:58 clarify, the U.S.
0:52:59 market share, it’s still a
0:53:01 big deal, but, you know,
0:53:02 Uber is still taking over
0:53:03 the rest of the world.
0:53:04 I would not have thought
0:53:06 that Lyft was gaining
0:53:08 share against Uber in any
0:53:08 large market.
0:53:11 So, and I look at their
0:53:13 price to sales, it’s one,
0:53:15 Uber’s four, Uber’s more
0:53:17 diversified, has more
0:53:17 scale.
0:53:19 I think they still lack real
0:53:20 differentiation.
0:53:21 I think they’ve got to
0:53:21 make a big bet on
0:53:23 something, as opposed to
0:53:23 just being, right now,
0:53:24 they’re just known as a
0:53:25 number two, and I don’t
0:53:25 think they’ve solved that
0:53:26 problem.
0:53:28 And then, my other
0:53:29 observation is the reason
0:53:30 I’ve gotten to know David
0:53:31 accidentally, because he
0:53:32 shares a concern about
0:53:34 young men, and we’ve
0:53:34 gotten to know each other
0:53:35 a little bit, and it’s the
0:53:36 reason why I don’t get to
0:53:37 know these guys is you
0:53:37 like them.
0:53:39 This guy is really
0:53:39 likable.
0:53:40 They’re just starting…
0:53:41 We can’t have CEOs on
0:53:42 the podcast anymore.
0:53:42 We’re going to just
0:53:43 start, we’re going to
0:53:44 become sycophants.
0:53:45 Well, I’ve gotten to
0:53:46 know this guy.
0:53:48 He took 12 years off, I
0:53:50 think, to work on a
0:53:51 non-profit, trying to
0:53:52 encourage kids to read.
0:53:53 It’s like, I’m pretty
0:53:54 sure Mark Zuckerberg
0:53:55 will never do that, but
0:53:58 he’s very…
0:53:59 I mean, that guy’s
0:54:01 impossible not to like,
0:54:02 in my view.
0:54:03 And so, I think he’s in
0:54:04 the right seat.
0:54:04 I think they are
0:54:05 struggling.
0:54:06 They’ve got to make a
0:54:08 big bet and be more
0:54:09 than just the number
0:54:10 two when you hear their
0:54:11 brand name.
0:54:11 What do you think?
0:54:12 Yeah, I think it’s
0:54:13 really interesting what
0:54:14 you say about the price
0:54:15 of sales multiple there,
0:54:16 and that is…
0:54:17 I mean, I agree.
0:54:19 I really enjoyed that
0:54:19 conversation.
0:54:20 I really like him.
0:54:22 But the question, as a
0:54:24 CEO, is how can you
0:54:25 increase those multiples?
0:54:27 I mean, just as you
0:54:28 said there, you didn’t
0:54:30 know that they had as
0:54:31 large of a market share
0:54:32 as they do in America.
0:54:35 And whose fault is that?
0:54:37 Well, that’s comms.
0:54:38 That’s PR’s fault.
0:54:39 But it’s also kind of his
0:54:41 fault as the CEO by not
0:54:42 communicating that message
0:54:43 enough.
0:54:45 And so I think that I
0:54:47 would like to see more
0:54:50 from him in communicating
0:54:53 actually we are taking
0:54:55 over the market in a lot
0:54:56 of ways.
0:54:57 And I also think that this
0:54:58 was an opportunity.
0:54:59 You asked him, you know,
0:55:00 what are your big, bold
0:55:01 bets?
0:55:03 And he said customer
0:55:04 service, which, you know,
0:55:05 fair enough.
0:55:07 And I really appreciate his
0:55:08 obsession with that.
0:55:09 I do think that is
0:55:10 important.
0:55:11 But I also think that
0:55:14 these podcasts are the
0:55:15 moment to make that
0:55:16 giant pitch.
0:55:19 And sure, maybe Uber’s
0:55:19 going to start getting
0:55:20 worried about it.
0:55:22 And management will start,
0:55:23 you know, looking at this
0:55:24 podcast and say, OK,
0:55:25 Lyft is getting into this.
0:55:27 But you also need to make
0:55:28 the pitch to Wall Street
0:55:29 and say, this is the
0:55:30 future.
0:55:31 You know, we’re getting
0:55:32 into robotaxis and it’s
0:55:33 going to be massive.
0:55:35 Yeah, he’s the anti-Musk.
0:55:37 Musk, like, basically
0:55:38 strings together, like,
0:55:39 bullshit and fairy dust.
0:55:40 And the market
0:55:41 believes it.
0:55:43 And he’s, quite frankly,
0:55:45 kind of honest and
0:55:46 reserved to a fault.
0:55:47 He’s kind of reeks of
0:55:48 integrity and doesn’t want
0:55:49 to get out over his
0:55:49 skis.
0:55:52 Whereas Musk is like, oh,
0:55:53 yeah, I’m putting people
0:55:55 on Uranus.
0:55:57 While I’m high on ketamine,
0:55:58 I’m going to enjoy it.
0:56:00 That seems to be the
0:56:01 problem, right?
0:56:03 I mean, the problem isn’t
0:56:04 really the underlying
0:56:04 business.
0:56:06 They’re actually doing a
0:56:07 credible job there.
0:56:10 The problem is selling to
0:56:11 Wall Street to investors.
0:56:13 That’s why the stock’s
0:56:13 down.
0:56:15 He’s the CEO of a bygone
0:56:16 era, and that is he’s
0:56:18 under-promising and
0:56:18 over-delivering.
0:56:21 And that used to be what
0:56:22 CEOs acted like up until
0:56:23 about 15 years ago.
0:56:25 And now CEOs over-promise,
0:56:27 hoping that their stock will
0:56:28 go up and they can use
0:56:29 cheap capital to pull the
0:56:29 future forward.
0:56:31 And he just, he kind of
0:56:32 reeks of integrity.
0:56:33 I don’t know.
0:56:34 I’m rooting for the guy.
0:56:36 I may even download the
0:56:37 Lyft app.
0:56:37 Who knows?
0:56:39 I just might get fucking
0:56:39 crazy.
0:56:40 I might go crazy tonight.
0:56:42 I’m switching to Lyft.
0:56:44 I’m a fan of David.
0:56:45 I’m going to switch to Lyft
0:56:46 as soon as we get off this
0:56:46 podcast.
0:56:48 Maybe that’s just because,
0:56:51 as you say, I like the guy
0:56:53 and I’m becoming a victim of
0:56:55 this, of the likability of
0:56:55 these people.
0:56:56 Good.
0:56:58 We need to stop having CEOs
0:56:58 on the pod.
0:56:59 There you go.
0:56:59 No more.
0:57:00 No mas.
0:57:07 This episode was produced
0:57:08 by Claire Miller and Alison
0:57:09 Weiss and engineered by
0:57:10 Benjamin Spencer.
0:57:11 Mia Silverio is our
0:57:11 research lead.
0:57:12 Isabella Kinsel and Dan
0:57:14 Shalon are our research
0:57:14 associates.
0:57:16 Drew Burrows is our
0:57:16 technical director and
0:57:18 Catherine Dillon is our
0:57:19 executive producer.
0:57:20 Thank you for listening to
0:57:21 Profity Markets from the
0:57:22 Vox Media Podcast Network.
0:57:23 If you liked what you heard,
0:57:25 give us a follow and join us
0:57:26 for a fresh take on markets
0:57:27 on Monday.
0:57:59 We’ll see you next time.
0:57:59 you