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  • Moment 211: Dr. Andrew Huberman: The Real Reason You’re Always Exhausted & Have No Dopamine!

    中文
    Tiếng Việt
    中文
    Tiếng Việt
    AI transcript
    0:00:03 we can, again, look at things through the lens of biology and say, well, what are we
    0:00:08 talking about when we’re talking about energy? What is this energy thing that people are talking
    0:00:14 about? And I think it largely boils down to these catecholamines, the dopamine, epinephrine,
    0:00:20 norepinephrine cocktail that is setting the brain into a mode of attention, of motivation. We now
    0:00:25 know dopamine is more about motivation to seek rewards as opposed to feeling of pleasure or
    0:00:31 reward. There’s a lot to be said about that. And keep in mind that these three neurochemicals,
    0:00:38 dopamine, norepinephrine, and epinephrine, have been the neurochemical cocktail by which humans and
    0:00:45 other mammals have set and pursued goals for hundreds of thousands of years. So we don’t have
    0:00:52 like a unique system, a unique neurochemical system for seeking out of mates versus food versus creating
    0:00:59 shelter versus creating technology and whole societies. And it’s not just these three
    0:01:03 neurochemicals. Certainly there are other things involved, acetylcholine and, you know, a bunch of
    0:01:09 other things, neuroplasticity for that matter. But it’s clearly the case that the currency that the
    0:01:15 brain has set around getting us into forward center of mass, as I say, to like envision something,
    0:01:22 explore. Nope, not down there, this way. Ah, there’s a scent here. And trade out an actual scent
    0:01:26 for, you know, oh, there’s something interesting here. There’s someone interesting here. And like
    0:01:32 exploring that, no, that’s a dead path to cul-de-sac, turn around, go, oh, here. And then connecting these
    0:01:37 nodes of progress. What’s progress? Ah, there’s kind of another surge of these catecholamines, which sets
    0:01:43 us in forward center of mass. You know, I don’t want to oversimplify the biology, but when we talk
    0:01:52 about energy, for instance, taking time to rest at night, sleep, taking time to maybe meditate a few
    0:01:57 minutes, or do this practice that I’m a huge fan of, non-sleep deep rest, which is kind of a body scan,
    0:02:04 deep relaxation, long exhales. It’s a practice very similar to an ancient practice called yoga nidra,
    0:02:08 which has been practiced for thousands of years. It’s a kind of pseudo-sleep. And we know from a
    0:02:17 really nice study that NSDR, non-sleep deep rest, aka yoga nidra, can increase the baseline levels of
    0:02:24 dopamine in a brain area called the basal ganglia, which is for action generation and also withholding
    0:02:31 action, by about 60% from baseline. Just a short period of doing this practice can kind of re-up
    0:02:35 dopamine levels to a considerable extent. It’s a remarkable study, and there are others like it.
    0:02:42 So what does that mean? Well, it means that in rest, we build up this capacity to be forward center of
    0:02:49 mass when we emerge from rest. That’s why I think we have to sleep every 24 hours. This is why practices
    0:02:55 where we deliberately calm ourselves and still ourselves allow us to be more forward center of
    0:02:59 mass mentally and physically afterwards. It’s kind of a duh when we hear it. We kind of go,
    0:03:05 oh, duh, of course, rest, action, rest, action. But there’s a lot more to it. If you start exploring
    0:03:10 the layers, you start realizing that excitement for things versus burnout. What’s burnout? It’s just
    0:03:20 trying to be forward center of mass for too long. It’s misuse of our dopamine circuitry. It’s ignoring
    0:03:26 the fact that these catecholamines and dopamine in particular, they are not infinite in their availability,
    0:03:33 right? There’s a reservoir of them that can be depleted, but it can be replenished as well. And one of the best
    0:03:38 analogies for this was actually explained to me by a guy named Dr. Kyle Gillette. He does some online work as a
    0:03:44 public-facing physician, endocrinology in particular. And he said, with dopamine, it’s kind of like a wave pool.
    0:03:48 You have this reservoir that can allow you to pursue things or scroll the internet or build businesses,
    0:03:54 whatever it is. If you are really forward center of mass very intensely, you start generating these waves.
    0:04:00 And if you get big waves of dopamine and they crash out of the pool, you start depleting the
    0:04:06 reservoir. So when I think about drugs of abuse like cocaine, which leads to huge surges in dopamine,
    0:04:12 or amphetamines, huge surges in dopamine, what do we know about huge surges in dopamine? Well,
    0:04:20 after those huge surges, you drop below your initial baseline to a state in which the same thing doesn’t
    0:04:24 feel as good anymore. You need so much more energy to get the same output.
    0:04:25 That’s what this is, right?
    0:04:26 That’s what this is.
    0:04:27 I’ll put this on the screen for anyone.
    0:04:34 Yeah. So my colleague at Stanford, Dr. Anna Lemke, who runs our dual diagnosis addiction clinic and wrote
    0:04:41 the wonderful book, Dopamine Nation, described this best. It’s sort of like a seesaw, but whereby you get
    0:04:48 a big peak in dopamine, let’s say from a drug of abuse like cocaine. People on cocaine, it’s all about
    0:04:52 ideas and what’s next. They’re not like, hey, let’s just kick back. It’s all about what’s they, in fact,
    0:04:56 they have a million ideas per second. Most of them are terrible ideas, but they’re very forward center
    0:05:02 of mass motivated. And then when the drug wears off, they feel very low and very depressed. The dopamine
    0:05:08 is actually depleted below baseline. People that work excessively, right? We all have different
    0:05:12 abilities to work out, but people that work excessively and abuse stimulants in order to do that
    0:05:19 achieve these peaks. Is that like, so what would be an everyday example of that working excessively?
    0:05:21 Do you mean like a pre-workout or something?
    0:05:28 Yeah, I’m not anti-pre-workout. Listen, I love to be well-rested, hydrated, have a nice pre-workout drink,
    0:05:35 maybe even a little shot of espresso, listen to some music and have an incredible leg day workout.
    0:05:40 It’s an amazing feeling, right? But if you do that every single time, you start stacking all these
    0:05:46 catecholamine release-inducing drugs, okay? So you’re getting adrenaline, you’re getting epinephrine,
    0:05:50 which is adrenaline, excuse me. You’re getting adrenaline, you’re getting noradrenaline,
    0:05:55 also called norepinephrine. You’re getting dopamine release. You’re highly motivated. You’re in that
    0:05:59 state that everyone is seeking. And you try and do that seven days a week, you’re not going to do it.
    0:06:03 And then you wonder why in the afternoon, you’re just completely cooked and you can’t do any cognitive
    0:06:09 work. Well, your dopamine and other things have crashed below baseline. So I think it’s important
    0:06:16 to understand that being, as I’m calling it, forward center of mass, like really kind of motivated and
    0:06:23 pursuing goals is great. But most of the time, we’re probably best off just coming off the gas pedal
    0:06:29 just a little bit to maintain that ability to continue to be forward center of mass.
    0:06:34 The same thing is true for stress. We hear stress is bad. Well, stress is bad,
    0:06:38 but it also sharpens your ability to learn. It creates energy. It actually boosts your immune
    0:06:46 system in the short term. I say tolerate as much stress as you can, provided you still behave like
    0:06:52 a kind person, right? Don’t say or do things that are unkind. And make sure that you still get great
    0:06:57 sleep at night. Most people stress, stress, stress, stress, run around, and then they can’t sleep at night.
    0:07:01 And then the next day they’re depleted. But a little bit of stress is healthy. Life is stressed.
    0:07:07 Things are stressful. But again, you’re going to be in your best state of mind if you’re calm and alert.
    0:07:13 Alert and calm is the magic recipe and the ability to sleep at night. If you want to take a bunch of
    0:07:19 pre-workout and you want to listen to some loud music and have a great crush it workout, great. But you
    0:07:25 should probably also be able to train without all of that. If you’re somebody who loves new goals and
    0:07:29 you’re, you know, you’re very excited about travel and this and that, great. But do you have to layer
    0:07:33 in 50 things? And then you’re sitting around at home and you’re wondering why you’re so bored when
    0:07:38 you’re back home and why life is so depressing and you need more travel, more stimulation. In every
    0:07:47 domain of life, we see whether or not it’s food or exercise or stimulants or sex or media. If you push
    0:07:54 things to the max, you’re going to feel depleted and understimulated afterwards. And this trough below
    0:08:01 baseline, as Anna Lemke taught us with Dopamine Nation, that trough is a state that can last a long
    0:08:08 time. And it’s how long it’s proportional to how high that peak in dopamine was. Not how long, but how high
    0:08:13 that peak in dopamine was. And when you’re in that trough, that dopamine depleted state, typically what
    0:08:22 is going to reactivate the dopamine circuitry. And all it does is drive them further and further and
    0:08:28 longer and longer into that trough. What’s needed is a period of waiting, of non-indulgence in any of
    0:08:35 these excesses that allows them to return to baseline. We know this from drugs of abuse. It takes more and
    0:08:41 more drug to try and get what turns out to be less and less of a high. Most all addiction, most all
    0:08:47 compulsive behavior can be cured, essentially, through a period of abstinence lasting somewhere
    0:08:52 between 30 and 60 days, which to somebody who’s highly motivated to seek that thing or do that
    0:08:59 thing sounds like an absolute horror. But that is highly effective. So for some people, it’s work and
    0:09:04 stimulants, you know, a number of people taking Adderall and work, work, work, work, work. I hear from
    0:09:08 these people all the time. Typically, they are from the tech and finance world. They’re like, why am I
    0:09:15 burnt out? Well, you’ve been blasting these catecholamine regulated circuits for years. You
    0:09:19 need to just accept you’re going to feel a little low for a week. Then you’re going to feel a little
    0:09:25 less low. Then you’re going to come back to baseline. And then, and only then, can you really get back
    0:09:31 into like full forward center of mass. But at that point, you can introduce, you know, I do think there
    0:09:37 is a clinical use case for certain ADHD meds, which are amphetamine. There are certain people that need
    0:09:42 those meds. Other people have driven themselves into this dopamine trough. And so they’re seeking
    0:09:47 out anything and everything to get them out of that trough when really what they need to do is stay away
    0:09:53 from all that stuff and just wait, just wait. Go on holiday or something. Go on holiday, try and find
    0:09:59 reward in smaller things. You know, this is why dogs are wonderful in simpler things. And if that sounds
    0:10:09 heavy and dull to you, chances are you’re a bit in the dopamine loop. I’ve been in these loops before.
    0:10:14 They’re hard to exit. But once you exit them, you look back on them, you go, what was I thinking? Well,
    0:10:17 you were in a different state. You’re kind of a different animal when you’re in pursuit.
    0:10:23 I think this is so unbelievably important because it really helps people to understand why they do what
    0:10:28 they do. And before doing a research on you coming here today and before understanding some of this stuff,
    0:10:33 I thought dopamine was, I don’t know, it was this thing that came in these hits maybe. And if I did
    0:10:37 something, I got ahead of it, then I returned to baseline. If I did something again, stimulating, I got
    0:10:42 ahead of it, then I returned to baseline. But what actually is happening is I’m doing something that’s
    0:10:47 stimulating in some way. I’m getting this huge peak, then I’m crashing below baseline for a while.
    0:10:52 And when I’m below baseline, that’s when I’m most likely to want to do something that’s going to
    0:10:57 give me a hit again. That’s right. And when I saw that, it reminded me of the CGI monitor,
    0:11:03 the continuous glucose monitor that I wore, because it was a very similar pattern. If I had a lot of
    0:11:06 sugar, I had a big peak, then I crashed below my baseline. Right. That’s a great observation.
    0:11:12 It’s the perfect analogy. Perfect analogy. Because these regulatory systems are all about trying to
    0:11:17 maintain homeostasis. We all hear about, we learn about homeostasis, like the desire for balance.
    0:11:21 That the human body and human physiology is actually geared more towards something called
    0:11:25 allostasis, which involves kind of stress modulation. But without getting into too many
    0:11:32 details, you know, these are dynamic systems, meaning brain systems that are designed to allow us to
    0:11:37 overcome challenges if need be, right? This is why I always push back on the idea that, you know,
    0:11:41 stress crashes your immune system. You know what crashes your immune system? Being very, very stressed,
    0:11:46 working a lot, a lot, caretaking for someone else, and then stopping. You always get sick when you
    0:11:51 stop. Why? Because actually stress activates the immune system. Makes sense that it would do that
    0:11:58 evolutionarily, right? And then when we rest, boom, our immune system kind of relaxes a little bit,
    0:12:03 and then we succumb to that, you know, the bacteria or virus. So what does it mean? It means that we
    0:12:09 should probably learn to modulate. It’s like driving a car. Anytime we feel that we’re headed toward or in a
    0:12:15 peak state, we should probably kind of like lean back off that state just a tiny bit, just a tiny bit,
    0:12:21 especially if that peak state is coming by way of pharmacology or some extreme circumstance. Just back
    0:12:28 off a little bit, maybe a lot, okay? So when we do that, we learn to master the transition states between
    0:12:33 these, what I’m referring to as forward center of mass, flat-footed, or back on my heels. It’s a term I
    0:12:38 learned from a former Navy SEAL operator. He said, with anything in life, you can either be back on your heels,
    0:12:43 like really challenged, flat-footed, kind of like calm and forward, or forward center of mass,
    0:12:48 like full tilt. I think most people would do very well to learn to master the transition states
    0:12:55 between waking and going to sleep, right? Many people can’t fall asleep. Many people just kind of
    0:12:59 can’t turn it off. You can learn how to do that by doing things like non-sleep deep rest,
    0:13:05 some long exhale breathing, simple, self-directed, zero-cost tools that help adjust your autonomic
    0:13:09 nervous system to be more what we call parasympathetic, more rest and digest, just long
    0:13:15 exhales. Might not work the first time, but over time, these become very effective tools to self-direct
    0:13:19 the shift from forward center of mass to flat-footed, to just kind of laying back, back on your heels,
    0:13:24 and there you go, you’re off to sleep. When you wake up in the morning, some people are just depleted.
    0:13:28 Maybe you didn’t sleep enough, but learning to get forward center of mass shouldn’t require,
    0:13:36 you know, excess caffeine and stimulants and super loud music and, you know, a shocking text or email.
    0:13:41 Ideally, you can transition pretty quickly into being forward center of mass, but not full tilt
    0:13:46 forward center of mass. And why do I say this? I think for anyone who seeks to be successful in any
    0:13:52 domain, academics, business, creative endeavors, whatever, if you want to have a long arc life and
    0:13:59 a long arc career, you really strive to control these transition states. And when I say control,
    0:14:04 all it really takes is paying attention to them and paying attention to the fact that, yes, some people
    0:14:09 just have inherently more energy. They can do every single workout at max output, then shower, they’re
    0:14:13 talking in the gym, then they’re off to that. Some people are like that. Some people, like myself,
    0:14:17 if I give a hundred percent to something in the morning, by the afternoon, I’m a little bit depleted.
    0:14:24 So I require a 10 or 20 minute non-sleep deep rest or a nap or just some quiet, long exhale breathing,
    0:14:28 maybe a little bit of caffeine, which I’m drinking now. I mean, there’s nothing wrong with healthy
    0:14:33 stimulants provided they’re consumed in moderation, maybe an energy drink. Those can be great too
    0:14:39 for some people. And then, you know, really going like full tilt, focusing one’s attention.
    0:14:45 And then afterwards, taking a few moments, just moments to downshift. I think we hear so much
    0:14:50 about the power of meditation or non-sleep deep rest or ice baths. What do cold plunges and cold
    0:14:55 showers do? They stimulate the release of what the catecholamines, dopamine, epinephrine, norepinephrine,
    0:15:00 long duration release. That’s why it’s useful in my opinion. For all the debate about deliberate cold
    0:15:05 exposure, does it increase metabolism? Does it not? The answer seems to be probably not much,
    0:15:14 but it’s absolutely clear that it causes a huge increase in adrenaline, dopamine, and norepinephrine
    0:15:19 that are very long lasting. And that makes you feel great, especially when you get out of the cold.
    0:15:23 And I think that’s the value of it. It also saves you on your heating bill. Like you don’t have to have
    0:15:27 a cold plunge. You take a cold shower. Nobody likes it, but the point is you get out and you feel
    0:15:34 different. It’s a state shift. So that’s great, but you don’t want to do it to excess because then,
    0:15:38 you know, for instance, people always say, how long should I go in the cold plunge or cold shower?
    0:15:42 And I say, do it the minimum amount so that you get the effect that you’re seeking, which is to be
    0:15:47 more alert and motivated. I have a friend, he did 30 minutes for some reason naked. He said,
    0:15:51 I did 30 minutes naked in the cold plunge. And then I got sick and I’m feeling really low. And I’m like,
    0:15:54 because you did 30 minutes. I mean, I don’t know about the naked part, what that had to do with it,
    0:16:00 but he had to throw that in there. He’s kind of an extreme guy. And I said, how about one minute?
    0:16:06 How about 30 seconds? How about don’t even pay attention to the time? Just get in and stay in
    0:16:12 as long as until you want to get out and then push through that barrier and then get out. That might be
    0:16:18 a minute, might be three minutes. You know, protect yourself, be safe, but just learn to overcome
    0:16:23 some challenge and then get out. You know, we have this fixation that more is better and
    0:16:28 more is not better. You want the minimal effective dose, maybe a little bit more because we don’t know
    0:16:33 where minimal is. People say, how many sets in the gym? Is it, you know, now it’s like all about the
    0:16:38 volume hypertrophy or like I’ve always fairly low recovery quotient. So for me, I like to do a couple
    0:16:43 of warmups, a few hard sets, two or three hard sets, another exercise, two or three hard sets.
    0:16:47 That’s it for that muscle group. Move on. People always say, well, volume is where it’s. Okay,
    0:16:53 great. But when I do 16 to 20 sets per week per muscle group, I’ll tell you, I’m depleted. It
    0:16:58 doesn’t work for me. And I sort of, well, I’ll just be honest. I kind of chuckle at the exercise
    0:17:03 scientists who say, well, this is the way it is in this study. Great. That’s not how it works for me.
    0:17:08 And even though I’m a scientist and I trust data, I also trust my own experience. And no one’s going
    0:17:12 to tell me that it’s placebo because it’s what’s worked for me. So I think that you have to
    0:17:17 find what your capabilities are. And I do think if you look at dog breeds of which I’m obsessed by,
    0:17:23 if you go to a dog show, which everyone should go to a dog show once, but don’t watch the show,
    0:17:27 go behind the show where you see all the different dog breeds. What you’ll see is what I saw the first
    0:17:32 time I did that. You have dogs where they’re wagging their tail all the time. They’re super excited.
    0:17:38 They’re alert. You can see their eyes, right? They’re just bright eyed. You can see the Great Danes.
    0:17:45 They’re super still. And then my favorite breed, and the reason I own them is the Bulldog. The
    0:17:51 essence of economy of effort. They don’t even lift their head off the ground. You walk over,
    0:17:56 you pet them, they’ll like look up at you and they might wink. Very still animals. Very powerful,
    0:18:00 but very still animals. Now I’m not wired like that as you’re probably getting the impression. I have a
    0:18:04 little bit more spontaneous movement, et cetera. So I need a lot of mental and physical stimulation
    0:18:10 in order to be happy, in order to feel fulfilled. So for me, there was a lot of work and I still do a
    0:18:14 lot of work in order to learn how to downshift, take it down, become a good sleeper, become a good
    0:18:19 resetter, reset myself during the middle of the day with things like non-sleep deep rest, which for me
    0:18:25 has been one of the most powerful tools or long exhale breathing to just bring myself down. Other
    0:18:29 people, they tend to have a little bit less energy than life demands of them. So they need to do a bit more
    0:18:35 cold shower, a little bit more caffeine, but then those people probably need a little bit more rest.
    0:18:39 They’re like the bulldogs of life. I think even though we’re all the same species, just like dogs,
    0:18:44 there’s a lot of variation there. So you have to know thyself, as the oracle said, understanding a
    0:18:50 little bit about the catecholamines, understanding that certain things like exercise, deliberate cold
    0:18:57 exposure, stimulants like caffeine and prescription drugs like Adderall, et cetera, powerfully cause the
    0:19:01 release of these catecholamines, dopamine, epinephrine, and norepinephrine, leading to big
    0:19:06 increases in energy and focus. But then always, always, always, there’s a cost, a trough that
    0:19:14 follows. Accept that, relax through it, then return to baseline and then go forward or avoid those
    0:19:18 things altogether. I’m not telling people what to do. Obviously the prescription drug thing in
    0:19:23 particular can be problematic for some people, even addictive. And certainly I’m not a fan of drugs of
    0:19:27 abuse like cocaine, amphetamine, absolutely categorically. Never done them, never will.
    0:19:35 And then other people who tend to veer toward, you know, being hyperactivated, a lot of spontaneous
    0:19:38 movement. These people tend to be a little bit thinner, a little bit leaner, or just have a ton
    0:19:45 of natural energy. These people should really learn to incorporate more kind of what I would call calming
    0:19:50 and relaxing practices. Maybe a bit more sauna than cold plunge. Maybe don’t crank the sauna to 220.
    0:19:56 You know, I find myself doing that. I’m like, just relax, like enjoy the sauna. And so I think
    0:20:00 the key to a good life and a productive life is again, to learn to master the transition states,
    0:20:08 understand some of the biology, and to really know yourself, not just your natural tendency,
    0:20:12 more bulldog-like versus, you know, I don’t know, pit bulls always have their tail going,
    0:20:17 a lot of spontaneous movement. There are other breeds as well. But also know that on any given day,
    0:20:23 you may be more or less rested. You might be more or less depleted from life experience and kind of
    0:20:28 recognize where you’re at and figure out what’s optimal for that day. In fact, I forget who the
    0:20:33 guy is. He’s on Instagram and there are a lot of self-help accounts. Then there are a lot of self-help
    0:20:38 accounts out there. But one of the best things that I’ve heard recently, and I try and incorporate it
    0:20:43 into my life. In fact, it’s in my notebook is when I wake up in the morning, I sort of take stock of where
    0:20:48 I am in terms of how rested I am. I certainly take stock of what I need to do that day. And then I
    0:20:57 ask, what’s something that I can do to make my life that day and the life of others better?
    0:21:02 Sometimes that means rest a little bit more. Sometimes that means push a little bit more.
    0:21:06 Sometimes that means call a relative that you haven’t spoken to. But thinking about how to make
    0:21:12 things better on the timescale of a day for oneself and for others, I think is what’s manageable. And
    0:21:17 it’s what’s realistic. And it takes this whole concept of protocols and biohacking and prescription
    0:21:23 drugs and supplements and workouts. And it brings a real world perspective to it. So I think we’re
    0:21:30 living in the time of kind of almost avatars of these different things. Like I think about David
    0:21:37 Goggins, who I know well, well, from the perspective of coworker, right? I consider him a friend, but
    0:21:42 we’ve never hung out outside of the work context. But I first met David back in 2016. And I’ll tell
    0:21:48 you, he’s always that way, at least when I’ve interacted with him. He’s always been, you know,
    0:21:54 forward center of mass. It was late in the day on a work. This was a thing in Silicon Valley. It was down
    0:22:00 in San Jose, Santa Clara, San Jose area in, I believe it was 2016. And we had been working all
    0:22:05 day in this part of this consult for this company. And in the afternoon, you know, there was like,
    0:22:09 do we take a break? Do we push? He’s like, no, we push. We’re going to do this. And I thought,
    0:22:13 whoa, like this guy’s intense. And he was changing because he was going to run to the airport, but not
    0:22:21 run to the airport in an Uber or drive to the airport. He meant run to the airport. And he did.
    0:22:25 So, you know, he’s forward center of mass. He clearly has the energy or he’s found the energy.
    0:22:29 Can you train that? Can you raise your sort of baseline dopamine level?
    0:22:31 Or are they two separate questions?
    0:22:36 It’s a great question. I don’t know that we have the answer. I think you can,
    0:22:43 if you become more economical about whatever dopamine or other neurochemicals you happen to
    0:22:48 harbor inside. We know there’s a lot of genetic and individual variation to these things.
    0:22:53 You know, there’s a joke among parents, right? Like how they come out is how they stay. Like the
    0:22:58 mellow kid, the mellow baby that didn’t cry much. The happy baby remains the happy person. You know,
    0:23:02 there are circumstances that can alter that versus the fussy baby that’s always fussy as even as an
    0:23:07 adult. You know, parents talk this way, but parents say all sorts of things. But, you know,
    0:23:17 I know people like Rick Rubin, for instance, who is very high energy, but very calm. It’s part of Rick’s
    0:23:23 magic. He knows how to regulate and control his energy. He has this uncanny capacity to get near
    0:23:34 to experience them, really feel them, but not get absorbed by it. Not feel, at least to my knowledge,
    0:23:38 depleted by it. Some people get kind of absorbed by things and then depleted.
    0:23:43 Is this like the introvert, extrovert conversation as well? Because two people can be in the same room.
    0:23:47 And I mean, I consider myself to be a bit of an extrovert, sorry, introvert, where if I stand in a
    0:23:53 room for two to three hours doing small talk, the way I describe it, it’s like my brain feels fried.
    0:23:58 Whereas my assistant, Sophie, it’s like you’ve poured fuel into her.
    0:24:04 Yeah. I’m similar to you. And I have an ex-girlfriend who loved parties. She would just
    0:24:09 get so much energy from parties. And I like certain parties, but I like the small conversation I might
    0:24:17 have at a party. So that resonates with me. I think we can shift. Well, to answer the introvert,
    0:24:22 extrovert question, I do think that some people get energy from social interactions, other people
    0:24:27 less so. But I know people who are quite quiet, who like social interactions. They’re just more
    0:24:33 an observer in those interactions as opposed to a participant. The introvert, extrovert thing also,
    0:24:38 at least my understanding of the science, is that it depends a bit on how quickly you fill up
    0:24:44 with social engagement. Like I like a good party, but after a couple hours, I’m like done. And other
    0:24:50 people, they can just go, go, go, go, go, go. They get more energy from it. I think, you know,
    0:24:57 we think of Goggins as kind of an iconic example because he is of somebody who is capable of pushing
    0:25:02 himself regardless of what the internal narratives might be. That’s my sense having spoken to him about
    0:25:07 it on my podcast and observed him on social media and other podcasts. Some people like Jocko Willink
    0:25:12 embody the, don’t even think about it. You do it because it’s 4.30 in the morning and at 4.30 in
    0:25:18 the morning, you work out. Like don’t think, do. Whereas when I think of David, I think of many
    0:25:24 things, but in particular about overcoming the voice in the mind that’s trying to pull you down
    0:25:28 and defeating that. In fact, having multiple representations of self in the brain, which is a
    0:25:34 fascinating thing unto itself. And then when I think about Rick, I think, you know, Rick is iconic
    0:25:42 in my mind for his sense of creativity, his ability to sense what is truly new and unique. He has
    0:25:47 incredible taste, right? To really be able to sense like this is new and different and exciting.
    0:25:54 And he seems to understand without trying to seek what people are going to like, what people inevitably
    0:26:02 love. So that’s his, one of his many superpowers and everyone has their superpower. Those are just so
    0:26:11 extremes. I think of Lex Friedman as somebody who is so thoughtful. And I mean, I don’t think people
    0:26:18 really understand just how hard Lex thinks about the tragedies of the world, the darkness in the world,
    0:26:24 but also the love that’s in the world. I mean, he really like hyper affiliates with what’s happening
    0:26:31 in his mind. And he’s able to really like absorb himself in that. And you can feel like his, like he
    0:26:39 gets right up next to the fire, like right up next to these things. And I think he represents a kind of
    0:26:46 iconic example of an explorer who will look anywhere, even if people are going to give him a hard time for it.
    0:26:50 But I think mostly people celebrate him for it. You know, so I think, you know, different people have
    0:26:56 different lenses on life and different capacities. I think if one wants to increase their baseline level of
    0:27:05 dopamine, I think it’s important to regulate those peaks and troughs. I’m not a believer in like never having
    0:27:09 peaks and dopamine, a great wedding party. Like I’ve been to some weddings where we just like partied all
    0:27:16 night or great concerts. I’m actually a huge fan. It’s kind of a genre of music. I don’t know much
    0:27:21 about, but I’ve always loved that band James. Do you know the band? We are James. Oh, it’s so good. Okay.
    0:27:28 I’m going to lose punk points for saying this, but best live shows ever. Just the best live shows I’ve
    0:27:32 ever seen. And I know there are, and I know there are a lot of different ideas about best live shows
    0:27:40 based on genres of music. I just, it’s like the best party you’ve ever been to. And I get a lift in
    0:27:47 energy that lasts two, three days from that. I don’t consume any substances at those shows. They happen
    0:27:52 very seldom, but when I’ve gone for two or three days, I feel like a changed person. It’s a marked shift in
    0:27:56 neurochemical state. And I don’t feel a trough afterwards. So I want to be very clear. There’s
    0:28:03 certain things like celebrations, concerts. They seem to give us these big surges in neurochemicals,
    0:28:09 but they don’t leave us depleted. And I’m very intrigued by these experiences because when I look
    0:28:14 to some examples, I have some friends who’ve been very successful in the tech sector and finance sector.
    0:28:20 They make a lot of money and I always worry about them afterwards. Inevitably, they end up depressed,
    0:28:24 not knowing what they want to do. So I always encourage them to keep working. In fact,
    0:28:29 the happiest people in tech and finance are the ones that keep working even after they get rich.
    0:28:36 So the people I see who are very happy are the people who take stock of their natural levels of
    0:28:42 energy, curiosity, motivation. You know, we could say dopamine, but that’s kind of a surrogate for a
    0:28:46 bunch of other things. And it’s incomplete, right? There are other chemicals involved, but for sake of
    0:28:52 conversation, we could say dopamine, catecholamines, epinephrine. And you sort of know what they’re
    0:28:56 capable of on a consistent basis. I think one of the best pieces of advice that I ever got was from
    0:29:01 a neurologist by the name of Bob Knight when I was a graduate student. He said, figure out how much work
    0:29:08 you can do over the course of the next four to five years on a consistent basis because it’s going to
    0:29:15 change as you get older, might not even go down. So for instance, I know that I can work a good solid 12 hours
    0:29:23 a day. That’s me, 12 hours a day, five, maybe six days a week, but I like one full day off per week. I just like
    0:29:30 that. Typically, it’s Sunday for me. I’ll do some exercise and some other things. But if I try and go 15 hours a
    0:29:36 day or 12 hours a day, seven days a week, I’m going to run aground. For other people, they need to work less.
    0:29:40 And now some people will say, okay, but do you have kids? And this and that. I’m not saying what
    0:29:45 work means. It could be career. It could be family or both. But I’m not somebody who has an infinite
    0:29:50 amount of energy, but I have a lot of energy. If you have less energy, you can do things like try and get
    0:29:56 great sleep, try and eat as well as you possibly can. You may have to do more to get more energy, but
    0:30:03 sort of have to accept your own kind of baseline state. And I think I certainly know many people who are
    0:30:09 like mellower, calmer, have quote unquote, less energy. They’re just more efficient with that
    0:30:15 energy. They place it correctly. They’re not wasting their energy. I know people that can scroll
    0:30:20 Instagram all the time, talk about what’s going on on Twitter, watch three podcasts, program and do a
    0:30:26 million things. I’m like, they’re fine. So I think we have to know where our groove is and that we can
    0:30:31 deviate from that about 15 to 20%. But anything more extreme than that, we’re going to end up in trouble.
    0:30:36 I think a lot of the reason why people are curious about dopamine is because ultimately they want to
    0:30:40 be more productive or effective at some goal they have in their life. So it might be building a
    0:30:45 business. It could be some, it could be a podcast, whatever. So taking everything you know about
    0:30:50 dopamine and how it works, if you were giving me advice on how I could be a better entrepreneur,
    0:30:55 podcaster, whatever, the first thing I got from you was really about this idea of transitioning between
    0:31:01 states and also allowing time for my reserves to replenish after a high dopamine activity.
    0:31:04 Is there anything else that I should be thinking about?
    0:31:08 Yeah. So we could operationalize this in a very clear way.
    0:31:13 Get enough sleep for you. For some people, it’s six hours. For some people, it’s eight hours. I’d like
    0:31:17 to dispel the myth, even though my friend, Matt Walker will probably get upset at me for saying
    0:31:22 this. Not everyone needs eight or nine hours of sleep. Okay. I got six last night. Okay. I actually
    0:31:26 went to bed at midnight last night. Oh, excuse me. I got six hours and 45 minutes last night. I went to
    0:31:33 bed at midnight, which is kind of late for me. Woke up at 645, but get enough sleep. If you wake up in the
    0:31:38 morning and you can’t get more sleep for whatever reason, can’t fall back asleep or you have to get
    0:31:45 out of bed. If you do not feel rested, I recommend doing a 10 or 20 minute non-sleep deep rest or yoga
    0:31:50 nidra protocol. They are available zero cost on YouTube. You could put NSDR my name. If you want
    0:31:56 to listen to me do one, you could put NSDR Kelly boys does wonderful yoga nidras. She has a very pleasant
    0:32:02 voice. If you prefer a female voice, there’s some wonderful yoga nidras by a woman named Kamini Desai.
    0:32:07 Anyway, these are all zero cost scripts that are available on YouTube. What is that? So non-sleep
    0:32:12 deep rest, similar to yoga nidra. Because you did one today. You did one today. I did one today on the
    0:32:17 way here. Okay. Yeah. Here’s what we know it does. Replenishes baseline levels of dopamine in the basal
    0:32:24 ganglia. Prepares you for action, both mental and physical action. Can indeed help offset some of the sleep
    0:32:30 that maybe you didn’t get, but you needed. We know that the brain goes into a kind of pseudo sleep in this
    0:32:37 state. And there’s also some evidence that yoga nidra and similar practices can improve rates of
    0:32:43 learning. Okay. So that’s sort of the benefits. What is it? It involves what most people will call
    0:32:48 meditation, but it’s different than meditation. You lie down, you could do it seated as well, but you lie
    0:32:54 down, eyes closed, and you do long exhale breathing. When we exhale, we actually slow our heart rate down.
    0:33:00 I could talk about how this is. This is through respiratory sinus arrhythmia. This is a relationship
    0:33:06 between the vagus nerve and the beating of the heart. But in any case, when we inhale, our heart actually
    0:33:12 speeds up, it’s beat slightly. And when we exhale, it slows down, it’s beat slightly. So it involves a lot
    0:33:20 of long exhale breathing. It involves a body scan where you deliberately relax different aspects of
    0:33:24 your body. So first your feet, then your legs, then your hands. It’s sort of a body scan of sorts with
    0:33:29 long exhale breathing. And it takes you into a state that’s pseudo sleep. You’re somewhere between sleep
    0:33:36 and awake. Now, the beauty of NSDR and yoga nidra is that part of the instruction at the beginning is
    0:33:41 to stay awake. Now, if you fall asleep, it’s okay. Just make sure you set an alarm if you have to go to
    0:33:49 work or do something else. But by staying awake while being very relaxed, it seems that the nervous system
    0:33:55 can continue to stay in a sleep-like state enough that you replenish some of these neurochemicals that
    0:34:01 prepare you for cognitive and physical action. Now, there are 10-minute NSDRs. There are 20-minute
    0:34:05 NSDRs. There are even hour-long yoga nidras and things of that sort. So it depends on how much time
    0:34:10 you have before you need to get up. So if you sleep well the night before, you wake up after six, eight
    0:34:16 hours, and you’re ready to go, boom, go. But if you’re not, I highly recommend doing a 10, 20, or 30-minute
    0:34:24 NSDR practice. You will find that you will be far more rested. You will feel far more mentally and
    0:34:28 physically vigorous when you emerge from that. It’s remarkable. And Matt Walker’s laboratory and I
    0:34:34 are gearing up to do some studies on this to figure out exactly what’s happening. Is the brain really
    0:34:39 going into sleep or is it something entirely different? We don’t quite know yet. In any event,
    0:34:47 it most certainly works. And soon we’ll know the exact mechanism in the brain, but this re-upping of
    0:34:52 dopamine is very, very clear from the existing studies. So what are you doing there? You’re
    0:34:58 essentially filling the reservoir for the day of activities, okay? Then I recommend hydration,
    0:35:06 which has a profound effect on energy levels. So 16 to 32 ounces of water. People debate, drink out of
    0:35:10 plastic or don’t drink out of plastic. Do you have to purify your water, et cetera? You know, listen,
    0:35:17 it depends on budget and interest and level of paranoia. I drink a filtered water. I tend to drink
    0:35:22 out of ceramic or glass, but I am somebody who will occasionally drink out of a plastic water bottle.
    0:35:28 I’m not neurotic about that sort of thing, but look, if you are, fine. And we could all do well to limit
    0:35:36 the amount of plastic waste in the oceans. So there you go. Hydrate. Then some people like myself do very well
    0:35:42 to get some exercise and sunlight, ideally simultaneously, but certainly get some sunlight
    0:35:50 and exercise prior to caffeine. Some people do, some people don’t, okay? I also understand and totally
    0:35:54 support people who just want their coffee or tea first thing in the morning. There’s no rule that says
    0:35:58 that you can’t do that. But for me, what I would do is I’d get up, use the restroom if you need to
    0:36:04 hydrate and then get some bright light in your eyes, ideally from sunlight first thing in the morning.
    0:36:10 Why? Well, there’s a whole story about circadian biology here that I could tell you, but I’ve done
    0:36:16 that many times before. Suffice to say that getting bright light, ideally from sunlight in your eyes,
    0:36:21 even through cloud cover. So if you’re in the UK, even through cloud cover increases the amount of
    0:36:28 cortisol release in your brain and body markedly. That is a good, healthy increase in cortisol that
    0:36:33 is associated with the transition to waking up. So we know that bright light in the morning,
    0:36:38 especially from sunlight, increases daytime mood focus and alertness, and it will improve your sleep
    0:36:39 later that night.
    Chúng ta có thể nhìn nhận mọi thứ qua lăng kính của sinh học và đặt câu hỏi, chúng ta đang nói về điều gì khi nói về năng lượng? Điều gì là cái khái niệm năng lượng mà mọi người đang đề cập đến? Tôi nghĩ rằng điều này chủ yếu liên quan đến các catecholamine, cocktail dopamine, epinephrine và norepinephrine đang khiến não bộ chuyển sang chế độ chú ý, động lực. Chúng ta hiện nay biết rằng dopamine liên quan nhiều hơn đến động lực để tìm kiếm phần thưởng chứ không chỉ là cảm giác vui sướng hay phần thưởng. Điều này có rất nhiều điều cần bàn luận. Và hãy nhớ rằng ba chất hóa học thần kinh này, dopamine, norepinephrine và epinephrine, đã là cocktail hóa học thần kinh mà con người và các loài động vật có vú khác đã thiết lập và theo đuổi mục tiêu trong hàng trăm nghìn năm. Vì vậy, chúng ta không có một hệ thống độc nhất, một hệ thống hóa học thần kinh độc nhất dành riêng cho việc tìm kiếm bạn tình, thức ăn, xây dựng nơi trú ẩn hay phát triển công nghệ và các xã hội. Và không chỉ có ba chất hóa học thần kinh này. Chắc chắn còn có nhiều yếu tố khác liên quan, acetylcholine và một số thứ khác, sự linh hoạt thần kinh cũng vậy. Nhưng rõ ràng là đồng tiền mà não bộ thiết lập để đưa chúng ta đến trung tâm khối lượng phía trước, như tôi nói, là để hình dung điều gì đó, khám phá. Không, không phải ở đó, mà là hướng này. À, có một mùi hương ở đây. Và trao đổi một mùi hương thực tế với, bạn biết đấy, oh, có điều gì thú vị ở đây. Có ai đó thú vị ở đây. Và như thế, khám phá điều đó, không, đó là một con đường chết, quay lại, đi, ồ, ở đây. Và sau đó kết nối những nút tiến bộ này. Tiến bộ là gì? À, lại có một làn sóng khác của các catecholamine, điều này đặt chúng ta vào vị trí trung tâm khối lượng phía trước. Bạn biết đấy, tôi không muốn đơn giản hóa sinh học, nhưng khi chúng ta nói về năng lượng, ví dụ, dành thời gian để nghỉ ngơi vào ban đêm, ngủ, hoặc dành thời gian để thiền trong vài phút, hoặc thực hiện bài tập mà tôi rất yêu thích, đó là nghỉ ngơi sâu không ngủ (NSDR), mà thực chất là quét cơ thể, thư giãn sâu, thở ra dài. Đây là một thực hành rất giống với một thực hành cổ xưa gọi là yoga nidra, đã được thực hành hàng nghìn năm. Đây là một dạng giả ngủ. Và chúng ta biết từ một nghiên cứu rất hay rằng NSDR, nghỉ ngơi sâu không ngủ, còn gọi là yoga nidra, có thể làm tăng mức dopamine cơ bản trong một khu vực não gọi là hạch nền – nơi tạo ra hành động và cũng kìm giữ hành động – tăng khoảng 60% so với mức cơ bản. Chỉ một khoảng thời gian ngắn thực hiện bài tập này có thể làm tăng mức dopamine đáng kể. Đây là một nghiên cứu đáng chú ý, và còn nhiều nghiên cứu khác như vậy.
    Vậy điều đó có nghĩa là gì? Nó có nghĩa là trong trạng thái nghỉ ngơi, chúng ta tích lũy được khả năng để trở về trung tâm khối lượng phía trước khi chúng ta thoát khỏi trạng thái nghỉ ngơi. Đó là lý do tại sao tôi nghĩ chúng ta cần ngủ mỗi 24 giờ. Đây cũng là lý do các thực hành mà chúng ta một cách có chủ đích làm dịu bản thân và giữ bình tĩnh cho phép chúng ta có thể trở thành trung tâm khối lượng phía trước cả về tinh thần lẫn thể chất sau đó. Nghe có vẻ đơn giản khi chúng ta nghe điều này. Chúng ta có thể nghĩ, ồ, rõ ràng rồi, nghỉ ngơi, hành động, nghỉ ngơi, hành động. Nhưng có rất nhiều điều hơn thế nữa. Nếu bạn bắt đầu khám phá các lớp, bạn bắt đầu nhận ra sự phấn khích với những điều khác nhau so với sự kiệt sức. Kiệt sức là gì? Đó là cố gắng trở thành trung tâm khối lượng phía trước quá lâu. Đó là việc lạm dụng mạch dopamine của chúng ta. Đó là việc không nhận ra rằng những catecholamine và đặc biệt là dopamine, chúng không vô hạn trong sự sẵn có của chúng, đúng không? Có một kho dự trữ chúng có thể bị cạn kiệt, nhưng cũng có thể được bổ sung. Và một trong những phép ẩn dụ tốt nhất cho điều này thực sự được một người tên là Dr. Kyle Gillette giải thích cho tôi. Ông ấy làm một số công việc trực tuyến với tư cách là một bác sĩ công, đặc biệt trong lĩnh vực nội tiết. Và ông ấy nói, với dopamine, nó giống như một bể sóng. Bạn có một kho dự trữ cho phép bạn theo đuổi những điều hoặc lướt internet hoặc xây dựng doanh nghiệp, dù là gì đi nữa. Nếu bạn thực sự là trung tâm khối lượng phía trước một cách rất mãnh liệt, bạn bắt đầu tạo ra những làn sóng này. Và nếu bạn bị những làn sóng dopamine lớn và chúng dội ra khỏi bể, bạn bắt đầu cạn kiệt kho dự trữ. Vậy khi tôi nghĩ về các chất kích thích gây nghiện như cocaine, dẫn đến sự gia tăng lớn trong dopamine, hoặc amphetamine, sự gia tăng lớn trong dopamine, thì chúng ta biết điều gì về sự gia tăng lớn trong dopamine? Sau những cơn gia tăng lớn đó, bạn giảm xuống dưới mức cơ bản ban đầu đến một trạng thái mà cùng một điều đó không còn cảm giác tốt nữa. Bạn cần quá nhiều năng lượng để có được cùng một kết quả.
    Đó chính là điều này, đúng không?
    Đó chính là điều này.
    Tôi sẽ đưa điều này lên màn hình cho bất kỳ ai.
    Vâng. Vậy đồng nghiệp của tôi tại Stanford, Dr. Anna Lemke, người điều hành phòng khám điều trị nghiện chẩn đoán kép và đã viết cuốn sách tuyệt vời, “Dopamine Nation”, mô tả điều này tốt nhất. Nó giống như một cái bập bênh, nhưng bạn có một đỉnh cao lớn về dopamine, giả sử từ một chất gây nghiện như cocaine. Những người đang dùng cocaine, họ luôn nghĩ về những ý tưởng và điều gì tiếp theo. Họ không nghĩ, hey, hãy thư giãn một chút. Tất cả đều liên quan đến điều gì đó, họ thực tế có hàng triệu ý tưởng mỗi giây. Hầu hết trong số đó là những ý tưởng tồi tệ, nhưng họ rất được truyền cảm hứng để tiến về phía trước. Và khi thuốc hết tác dụng, họ cảm thấy rất chán nản và thấp thỏm. Dopamine thực tế bị cạn kiệt dưới mức cơ bản. Những người làm việc quá sức, đúng không? Chúng ta đều có những khả năng khác nhau để tập luyện, nhưng những người làm việc quá sức và lạm dụng các chất kích thích để đạt được điều đó sẽ đạt được những đỉnh cao này. Vậy ví dụ hàng ngày nào về việc làm việc quá sức? Bạn có nghĩa là một loại thuốc bổ trước khi tập luyện hay gì đó?
    Vâng, tôi không chống lại việc dùng thuốc bổ trước khi tập luyện. Nghe này, tôi thích được nghỉ ngơi đầy đủ, được cung cấp nước, có một đồ uống bổ trước khi tập luyện, có thể là một chút espresso, nghe nhạc và có một buổi tập luyện đùi tuyệt vời. Đó là một cảm giác tuyệt vời, đúng không? Nhưng nếu bạn làm điều đó mỗi lần, bạn bắt đầu xếp chồng lên tất cả những chất gây ra sự giải phóng catecholamine này, được không? Vì vậy, bạn đang nhận được adrenaline, bạn đang nhận được epinephrine, mà thực tế là adrenaline, xin lỗi.
    Bạn đang trải qua sự tăng cường adrenaline, bạn đang nhận được noradrenaline, còn gọi là norepinephrine. Bạn đang có sự giải phóng dopamine. Bạn rất có động lực. Bạn đang ở trong trạng thái mà mọi người đều mong muốn. Và nếu bạn cố gắng duy trì trạng thái này bảy ngày một tuần, bạn sẽ không thể làm được. Rồi bạn tự hỏi tại sao vào buổi chiều, bạn lại cảm thấy mệt mỏi hoàn toàn và không thể làm việc tư duy. Thật ra, mức dopamine và các yếu tố khác của bạn đã giảm xuống dưới mức cơ bản. Vì vậy, tôi nghĩ rằng việc hiểu rằng, như tôi đang gọi, trạng thái tiên tiến về tâm lý, tức là thực sự có động lực và theo đuổi các mục tiêu là điều tuyệt vời. Nhưng hầu hết thời gian, có lẽ chúng ta nên giảm nhẹ một chút để duy trì khả năng tiếp tục là một tâm lý bình tĩnh và tích cực.
    Điều tương tự cũng đúng với căng thẳng. Chúng ta nghe nói rằng căng thẳng là xấu. Đúng, căng thẳng là xấu, nhưng nó cũng làm sắc bén khả năng học hỏi của bạn. Nó tạo ra năng lượng. Nó thực sự tăng cường hệ thống miễn dịch của bạn trong ngắn hạn. Tôi nói rằng hãy chịu đựng càng nhiều căng thẳng càng tốt, miễn là bạn vẫn cư xử như một người tốt, đúng không? Đừng nói hoặc làm những điều không tốt. Và hãy chắc chắn rằng bạn vẫn có giấc ngủ ngon vào ban đêm. Nhiều người liên tục căng thẳng, chạy đi chạy lại, rồi không thể ngủ vào ban đêm. Và đến ngày hôm sau, họ cảm thấy kiệt sức. Nhưng một chút căng thẳng là điều lành mạnh. Cuộc sống có căng thẳng. Có quá nhiều điều gây căng thẳng. Nhưng một lần nữa, bạn sẽ ở trong trạng thái tâm lý tốt nhất khi bạn bình tĩnh và tỉnh táo. Bình tĩnh và tỉnh táo là công thức kỳ diệu và khả năng ngủ ngon vào ban đêm. Nếu bạn muốn uống nhiều thuốc tăng năng lượng và nghe nhạc to để có một buổi tập mạnh mẽ, tuyệt vời. Nhưng bạn cũng nên có thể tập luyện mà không cần tất cả những điều đó. Nếu bạn là người yêu thích những mục tiêu mới và bạn rất phấn khích với việc du lịch và cái này cái kia, tuyệt vời. Nhưng bạn có cần phải thêm vào 50 điều không? Rồi bạn ngồi ở nhà và tự hỏi tại sao bạn lại cảm thấy chán khi về nhà và tại sao cuộc sống lại buồn tẻ và bạn cần nhiều du lịch hơn, nhiều sự kích thích hơn. Trong mọi lĩnh vực của cuộc sống, dù là thực phẩm hay tập thể dục hay các chất kích thích hoặc tình dục hoặc truyền thông. Nếu bạn đẩy mọi thứ đến giới hạn tối đa, bạn sẽ cảm thấy kiệt sức và thiếu kích thích sau này. Và cái đáy giảm xuống dưới mức cơ bản, như Anna Lemke đã dạy chúng ta trong cuốn “Dopamine Nation”, cái đáy đó là một trạng thái có thể kéo dài lâu. Thời gian kéo dài này phụ thuộc vào độ cao mà đỉnh dopamine đã đạt được. Không phải là thời gian, mà là độ cao mà đỉnh dopamine đã đạt được. Khi bạn ở trong cái đáy đó, trạng thái thiếu dopamine, điều gì thường tái kích hoạt mạch dopamine. Và tất cả những gì nó làm là đẩy chúng tiếp tục xa hơn và lâu hơn vào cái đáy đó. Điều cần thiết là một khoảng thời gian chờ đợi, không indulgence vào bất kỳ điều gì trong số những thứ dư thừa đó, cho phép chúng trở lại mức cơ bản. Chúng ta biết điều này từ các loại ma túy bị lạm dụng. Cần phải có nhiều ma túy hơn và hơn nữa để cố gắng đạt được thứ mà hóa ra lại là một trạng thái cảm giác thấp hơn. Hầu hết mọi dạng nghiện, hầu hết mọi hành vi cưỡng chế đều có thể được chữa trị, về cơ bản, thông qua một khoảng thời gian kiêng cữ kéo dài từ 30 đến 60 ngày, điều này đối với một người có động lực cao để tìm kiếm thứ đó hoặc làm điều đó nghe như một cơn ác mộng tuyệt đối. Nhưng điều đó thì cực kỳ hiệu quả. Vì vậy, đối với một số người, đó là công việc và các chất kích thích, bạn biết đấy, một số người đang dùng Adderall và làm việc, làm việc, làm việc. Tôi nghe từ những người này mọi lúc. Thông thường, họ đến từ thế giới công nghệ và tài chính. Họ thường hỏi, tại sao tôi lại cảm thấy kiệt sức? Ồ, bạn đã kích thích những mạch catecholamine này trong nhiều năm. Bạn cần phải chấp nhận rằng bạn sẽ cảm thấy hơi xuống trong một tuần. Sau đó bạn sẽ cảm thấy ít xuống hơn. Rồi bạn sẽ trở lại mức cơ bản. Và chỉ khi đó, bạn mới thực sự có thể trở lại trạng thái tiên tiến hoàn toàn. Nhưng vào thời điểm đó, bạn có thể giới thiệu, bạn biết đấy, tôi thực sự nghĩ rằng có một trường hợp sử dụng lâm sàng cho một số loại thuốc ADHD, là amphetamine. Có một số người cần những thuốc đó. Những người khác đã tự đẩy bản thân vào cái đáy dopamine này. Vì vậy, họ đang tìm kiếm bất kỳ điều gì và mọi thứ để đưa họ ra khỏi cái đáy đó khi thực sự điều họ cần làm là tránh xa tất cả những thứ đó và chỉ chờ đợi, chỉ chờ đợi. Hãy đi nghỉ mát hoặc điều gì đó. Đi nghỉ mát, cố gắng tìm kiếm phần thưởng trong những điều nhỏ nhặt hơn. Bạn biết đấy, đó là lý do tại sao chó là những sinh vật tuyệt vời trong những điều đơn giản. Và nếu điều đó nghe có vẻ nặng nề và buồn tẻ với bạn, có khả năng bạn đang ở trong một chu kỳ dopamine. Tôi đã từng ở trong những chu kỳ này trước đây. Chúng rất khó để thoát ra. Nhưng khi bạn thoát ra, bạn nhìn lại và tự hỏi, tôi đã nghĩ gì? Bạn đã ở trong một trạng thái khác. Bạn có thể nói là một con người khác khi bạn đuổi theo những điều đó.
    Tôi nghĩ điều này cực kỳ quan trọng vì nó thực sự giúp mọi người hiểu tại sao họ làm điều họ làm. Và trước khi nghiên cứu về bạn hôm nay và trước khi hiểu một số điều này, tôi đã nghĩ rằng dopamine là, tôi không biết, đó là thứ gì đó đến trong những cú sốc có lẽ. Và nếu tôi làm một điều gì đó, tôi tiến bộ vượt bậc và sau đó quay trở lại mức cơ bản. Nếu tôi làm một điều gì đó kích thích lần nữa, tôi lại tiến bộ vượt bậc và rồi quay trở lại mức cơ bản. Nhưng những gì thực sự đang xảy ra là tôi đang làm một điều gì đó kích thích theo một cách nào đó. Tôi đang trải qua một đỉnh cao lớn, rồi tôi lại rơi xuống dưới mức cơ bản trong một thời gian. Và khi tôi dưới mức cơ bản, đó là khi tôi có khả năng muốn làm điều gì đó sẽ mang lại cho tôi một cú sốc lần nữa. Đúng vậy. Và khi tôi thấy điều đó, nó làm tôi nhớ đến máy theo dõi đường huyết liên tục mà tôi đã đeo, vì nó có một mẫu rất tương tự. Nếu tôi ăn nhiều đường, tôi sẽ có một đỉnh lớn, rồi tôi lại rơi xuống dưới mức cơ bản của mình. Đúng vậy, đó là một quan sát tuyệt vời. Đó là một phép ẩn dụ hoàn hảo. Phép ẩn dụ hoàn hảo. Bởi vì những hệ thống điều chỉnh này đều nhằm cố gắng duy trì trạng thái ổn định. Chúng ta đều nghe nói về, chúng ta học về trạng thái ổn định, như sự khao khát cho sự cân bằng.
    Cơ thể con người và sinh lý học của con người thực sự hướng đến một cái gì đó gọi là allostasis, liên quan đến việc điều tiết stress. Nhưng không đi vào quá nhiều chi tiết, bạn biết đấy, đây là những hệ thống động, có nghĩa là các hệ thống não bộ được thiết kế để cho phép chúng ta vượt qua những thách thức nếu cần, đúng không? Đây là lý do tại sao tôi thường phản bác lại ý tưởng rằng, bạn biết đấy, stress làm suy giảm hệ miễn dịch của bạn. Bạn biết điều gì làm suy giảm hệ miễn dịch của bạn không? Là rất, rất căng thẳng, làm việc quá nhiều, chăm sóc người khác, và rồi dừng lại. Bạn luôn ốm khi dừng lại. Tại sao? Bởi vì thực ra stress kích hoạt hệ miễn dịch. Điều này có thể hiểu theo cách tiến hóa, đúng không? Và khi chúng ta nghỉ ngơi, bùm, hệ miễn dịch của chúng ta lại thư giãn một chút, và rồi chúng ta sẽ dễ bị nhiễm vi khuẩn hoặc virus. Vậy điều đó có nghĩa là gì? Nó có nghĩa là chúng ta có lẽ nên học cách điều hòa. Giống như lái xe. Bất cứ khi nào chúng ta cảm thấy mình đang hướng tới hoặc ở trong trạng thái cao trào, chúng ta có lẽ nên hơi lùi lại trạng thái đó một chút, chỉ một chút thôi, đặc biệt nếu trạng thái cao trào đó đến từ dược phẩm hoặc một hoàn cảnh cực đoan nào đó. Chỉ cần lùi lại một chút, có thể là khá nhiều, được chứ? Khi chúng ta làm như vậy, chúng ta học cách làm chủ các trạng thái chuyển tiếp giữa những gì tôi đang đề cập đến là trọng tâm khối lượng phía trước, đứng vững, hoặc lùi lại trên gót chân. Đây là một thuật ngữ tôi học từ một cựu chiến binh SEAL Hải quân. Ông ấy nói, với bất cứ điều gì trong đời, bạn có thể hoặc là lùi lại trên gót chân, như bị thách thức thực sự, đứng vững, kiểu như bình tĩnh và phía trước, hoặc trọng tâm khối lượng ở phía trước, như ở trạng thái đầy đủ. Tôi nghĩ phần lớn mọi người sẽ làm rất tốt nếu học cách làm chủ các trạng thái chuyển tiếp giữa việc thức và đi ngủ, đúng không? Nhiều người không thể đi vào giấc ngủ. Nhiều người không thể tắt được. Bạn có thể học cách làm điều đó bằng cách làm những việc như nghỉ ngơi sâu không ngủ, thở ra dài, những công cụ đơn giản, tự thực hiện, không tốn kém giúp điều chỉnh hệ thần kinh tự động của bạn về trạng thái parasympathetic nhiều hơn, nghỉ ngơi và tiêu hóa, chỉ cần thở ra dài. Có thể lần đầu tiên không hiệu quả, nhưng theo thời gian, những công cụ này trở nên rất hiệu quả để tự điều chỉnh chuyển đổi từ trọng tâm khối lượng phía trước sang đứng vững, chỉ cần lùi lại, trở lại với gót chân của bạn, và bạn sẽ đi vào giấc ngủ. Khi bạn thức dậy vào buổi sáng, một số người chỉ mệt mỏi. Có thể bạn đã không ngủ đủ, nhưng việc học cách có trọng tâm khối lượng phía trước không nên yêu cầu, bạn biết đấy, caffeine và chất kích thích quá mức, nhạc quá lớn và, bạn biết đấy, một tin nhắn hoặc email gây sốc. Lý tưởng là bạn có thể chuyển đổi khá nhanh vào trạng thái trọng tâm khối lượng phía trước, nhưng không phải là ở trạng thái đầy đủ. Và tại sao tôi lại nói như vậy? Tôi nghĩ rằng bất kỳ ai muốn thành công trong bất kỳ lĩnh vực nào, học thuật, kinh doanh, nỗ lực sáng tạo, bất cứ điều gì, nếu bạn muốn có một cuộc sống dài và sự nghiệp dài, bạn thực sự phải cố gắng kiểm soát những trạng thái chuyển tiếp này. Và khi tôi nói kiểm soát, tất cả những gì thực sự cần thiết là chú ý đến chúng và chú ý vào việc rằng, có, một số người vốn đã có nhiều năng lượng hơn. Họ có thể thực hiện mọi buổi tập với cường độ tối đa, sau đó tắm vòi sen, thì thầm ở phòng tập, sau đó họ đi đến đó. Một số người như vậy. Một số người, như tôi, nếu tôi dành 100% cho một việc vào buổi sáng, đến buổi chiều, tôi sẽ hơi mệt một chút. Vì vậy, tôi cần một phút nghỉ ngơi sâu không ngủ 10 hoặc 20 phút hoặc một giấc nap hoặc chỉ cần một chút yên tĩnh, thở ra dài, có thể một chút caffeine, mà tôi đang uống ngay bây giờ. Tôi có nghĩa là không có gì sai khi sử dụng các chất kích thích lành mạnh miễn là áp dụng chúng với mức độ vừa phải, có thể một đồ uống năng lượng. Những thứ đó cũng có thể tốt cho một số người. Và sau đó, bạn biết đấy, thực sự tập trung sức chú ý của mình. Và sau đó, dành một vài khoảnh khắc, chỉ là vài khoảnh khắc để chuyển sang trạng thái thấp hơn. Tôi nghĩ chúng ta nghe quá nhiều về sức mạnh của thiền định hoặc nghỉ ngơi sâu mà không ngủ hoặc ngâm nước lạnh. Những gì mà việc thả mình vào nước lạnh và tắm nước lạnh làm? Chúng kích thích việc giải phóng catecholamines, dopamine, epinephrine, norepinephrine, giải phóng kéo dài. Đó là lý do tại sao theo ý kiến của tôi, nó hữu ích. Đối với tất cả cuộc tranh luận về việc tiếp xúc với lạnh có chủ đích, liệu nó có tăng cường trao đổi chất hay không? Câu trả lời dường như không, nhưng rõ ràng là nó gây ra sự gia tăng lớn trong adrenaline, dopamine và norepinephrine mà kéo dài rất lâu. Và điều đó khiến bạn cảm thấy tuyệt vời, đặc biệt là khi bạn ra khỏi nước lạnh. Tôi nghĩ đó là giá trị của việc đó. Nó cũng giúp bạn tiết kiệm hóa đơn sưởi ấm của mình. Như vậy bạn không cần phải có một bể lạnh. Bạn tắm nước lạnh. Không ai thích điều đó, nhưng điều quan trọng là bạn ra ngoài và cảm thấy khác biệt. Đó là một sự chuyển đổi trạng thái. Vì vậy, điều đó thật tuyệt, nhưng bạn không muốn làm điều đó một cách thái quá vì sau đó, bạn biết đấy, mọi người luôn hỏi, tôi nên ở trong bể lạnh hoặc tắm nước lạnh bao lâu? Và tôi nói, hãy làm tối thiểu để bạn đạt được hiệu ứng bạn đang tìm kiếm, đó là trở nên tỉnh táo hơn và có động lực. Tôi có một người bạn, anh ấy đã ở trong bể lạnh 30 phút với lý do nào đó là khỏa thân. Anh ấy nói, tôi đã ở trong bể lạnh 30 phút mà không mặc gì, và sau đó tôi bị ốm và cảm thấy thực sự xuống tinh thần. Và tôi bảo, bởi vì bạn ở trong đó 30 phút. Tôi không biết phần khỏa thân có liên quan gì đến vấn đề đó, nhưng anh ấy đã phải thêm vào đó. Anh ấy là một người hơi cực đoan. Và tôi nói, sao không thử một phút? Hay 30 giây? Hay thậm chí không cần chú ý đến thời gian? Chỉ cần vào trong và ở lại cho đến khi bạn muốn ra ngoài và sau đó vượt qua rào cản đó và hãy ra ngoài. Có thể đó là một phút, cũng có thể là ba phút. Bạn biết đấy, bảo vệ bản thân, hãy an toàn, nhưng chỉ cần học cách vượt qua một thách thức nào đó rồi ra ngoài. Bạn biết đấy, chúng ta thường có sự ám ảnh rằng nhiều hơn là tốt hơn và nhiều hơn không phải lúc nào cũng tốt hơn. Bạn muốn liều lượng hiệu quả tối thiểu, có thể nhiều hơn một chút vì chúng ta không biết điểm tối thiểu là gì.
    Mọi người thường hỏi, có bao nhiêu set trong phòng gym? Bạn biết đấy, giờ đây nó giống như tất cả chỉ là về khối lượng phát triển cơ bắp hoặc tôi luôn có chỉ số phục hồi tương đối thấp. Đối với tôi, tôi thích thực hiện một vài bài khởi động, một vài set khó, hai hoặc ba set khó, rồi chuyển sang bài tập khác, lại hai hoặc ba set khó. Thế là xong cho nhóm cơ đó. Chuyển sang phần khác. Mọi người luôn nói, khối lượng là thứ quan trọng. Được rồi, tuyệt vời. Nhưng khi tôi thực hiện 16 đến 20 set mỗi tuần cho mỗi nhóm cơ, tôi sẽ nói cho bạn biết, tôi cảm thấy kiệt sức. Nó không hiệu quả với tôi. Và tôi sẽ thành thật mà nói, tôi cảm thấy hơi buồn cười khi nghe những nhà khoa học thể dục nói, “Đây là cách mà nó diễn ra trong nghiên cứu này”. Tuyệt vời. Nhưng đó không phải là cách nó hoạt động đối với tôi. Và mặc dù tôi là một nhà khoa học và tôi tin vào dữ liệu, tôi cũng tin vào kinh nghiệm của riêng mình. Không ai có thể nói với tôi rằng đó chỉ là hiệu ứng giả vì đây là những gì đã hiệu quả với tôi. Vì vậy, tôi nghĩ rằng bạn phải tìm hiểu khả năng của chính mình. Và tôi thực sự nghĩ rằng nếu bạn nhìn vào các giống chó, mà tôi rất mê mẩn, nếu bạn đến một buổi triển lãm chó, mà mọi người nên một lần tham gia, nhưng đừng xem chương trình, hãy đi ra phía sau buổi triển lãm nơi bạn thấy tất cả các giống chó khác nhau. Những gì bạn sẽ thấy là những chú chó vẫy đuôi suốt. Chúng rất phấn khích. Chúng rất cảnh giác. Bạn có thể thấy ánh mắt của chúng, đúng không? Chúng rất sáng. Bạn có thể thấy những chú Great Dane. Chúng rất thẳng thớm. Và giống chó mà tôi yêu thích, lý do tôi sở hữu chúng là Bulldog. Chúng tượng trưng cho sự tiết kiệm sức lực. Chúng thậm chí không nhấc đầu khỏi mặt đất. Bạn đi đến gần, vuốt ve chúng, chúng sẽ ngẩng đầu nhìn bạn và có thể nháy mắt. Những con vật rất trầm lặng, nhưng rất mạnh mẽ. Bây giờ, tôi không phải là kiểu người như vậy, như bạn có lẽ đã hiểu. Tôi có một chút vận động tự phát hơn, v.v. Vì vậy, tôi cần rất nhiều sự kích thích tinh thần và thể chất để cảm thấy hạnh phúc, để cảm thấy đủ đầy. Đối với tôi, có rất nhiều công việc mà tôi vẫn phải làm để học cách chậm lại, giảm tốc, trở thành một người ngủ ngon, trở thành một người có khả năng tự làm mới lại mình giữa ngày với những hoạt động như nghỉ ngơi sâu không ngủ, điều này đối với tôi đã trở thành một trong những công cụ mạnh mẽ nhất hoặc là kỹ thuật thở dài để hạ thấp nhịp độ của mình. Những người khác thì thường có ít năng lượng hơn so với những gì cuộc sống đòi hỏi từ họ. Họ cần làm nhiều hơn một chút, như tắm nước lạnh, uống thêm một chút caffeine, nhưng rồi những người đó có lẽ cần thêm một chút nghỉ ngơi. Họ giống như những chú bulldog của cuộc sống. Tôi nghĩ mặc dù tất cả chúng ta đều thuộc về một loài, giống như chó, nhưng vẫn có nhiều biến thể. Vì vậy, bạn phải biết chính mình, như lời của nhà tiên tri đã nói, hiểu một chút về catecholamines, hiểu rằng một số thứ như tập thể dục, tiếp xúc lạnh có chủ đích, các chất kích thích như caffeine và các loại thuốc theo đơn như Adderall, v.v., đều có khả năng gây ra sự giải phóng mạnh mẽ này của catecholamines, dopamine, epinephrine và norepinephrine, dẫn đến sự gia tăng lớn về năng lượng và sự tập trung. Nhưng luôn luôn, luôn luôn, luôn luôn, có một cái giá, một trạng thái tụt xuống theo sau. Chấp nhận điều đó, thư giãn qua nó, rồi trở về với mức cơ bản, và sau đó tiến lên hoặc hoàn toàn tránh xa những thứ đó. Tôi không nói cho mọi người biết phải làm gì. Rõ ràng, vấn đề thuốc theo đơn đặc biệt có thể gây rắc rối cho một số người, thậm chí gây nghiện. Và chắc chắn tôi không phải là người hâm mộ các loại thuốc gây nghiện như cocaine, amphetamine, chắc chắn là không. Và rồi những người khác có xu hướng nghiêng về việc, bạn biết đấy, trở nên bị kích thích quá mức, nhiều chuyển động tự phát. Những người này thường có phần gầy hơn, phần gầy hơn, hoặc chỉ đơn giản có nhiều năng lượng tự nhiên. Những người này thực sự nên học cách kết hợp nhiều hơn những gì tôi gọi là thực hành làm dịu và thư giãn. Có thể tắm sauna nhiều hơn là ngâm mình trong nước lạnh. Có lẽ không điều chỉnh sauna lên tới 220 độ. Bạn biết đấy, tôi thấy mình thường làm như vậy. Tôi tự nhắc mình, chỉ cần thư giãn, như thưởng thức sauna vậy. Và vì vậy, tôi nghĩ chìa khóa để có một cuộc sống tốt đẹp và sản xuất là một lần nữa, học cách làm chủ các trạng thái chuyển tiếp, hiểu một chút về sinh học, và thật sự hiểu rõ chính mình, không chỉ thiên hướng tự nhiên, kiểu bulldog hay kiểu nào đó, bạn biết đấy, pitbull luôn vẫy đuôi, có nhiều chuyển động tự phát. Cũng có những giống chó khác. Nhưng cũng hiểu rằng vào bất kỳ ngày nào, bạn có thể cảm thấy được nghỉ ngơi hơn hoặc ít hơn. Bạn có thể cảm thấy kiệt sức hơn hoặc ít hơn từ kinh nghiệm sống và kiểu nhận ra vị trí của mình và tìm ra điều gì là tối ưu cho ngày hôm đó. Thực tế, tôi không nhớ người đó là ai. Anh ấy có trên Instagram và có rất nhiều tài khoản tự giúp bản thân. Nhưng một trong những điều tốt nhất mà tôi đã nghe gần đây, và tôi cố gắng áp dụng vào cuộc sống của mình. Thực tế, nó ở trong sổ tay của tôi là khi tôi thức dậy vào buổi sáng, tôi sẽ xem xét tình trạng nghỉ ngơi của mình. Tôi chắc chắn sẽ xem xét những điều tôi cần làm trong ngày hôm đó. Và sau đó tôi hỏi, cái gì mà tôi có thể làm để cải thiện cuộc sống của tôi trong ngày hôm đó và cuộc sống của người khác? Đôi khi điều đó có nghĩa là nghỉ ngơi nhiều hơn một chút. Đôi khi điều đó có nghĩa là cố gắng một chút hơn. Đôi khi điều đó có nghĩa là gọi cho một người thân mà bạn chưa nói chuyện. Nhưng suy nghĩ về cách để cải thiện mọi thứ trong khung thời gian một ngày cho bản thân và cho người khác, tôi nghĩ đó là điều khả thi. Và đó là điều thực tế. Nó đưa toàn bộ khái niệm về các giao thức, biohacking, thuốc theo đơn và thực phẩm chức năng, và các bài tập vào một viễn cảnh thực tế. Vì vậy, tôi nghĩ rằng chúng ta đang sống trong thời đại của các “avatar” của những điều khác nhau. Như tôi suy nghĩ về David Goggins, người mà tôi biết rất rõ, bạn biết đấy, với tư cách là bạn đồng nghiệp, đúng không? Tôi xem anh ấy là một người bạn, nhưng chúng tôi chưa bao giờ gặp nhau ngoài bối cảnh công việc. Nhưng tôi lần đầu tiên gặp David vào năm 2016. Và tôi sẽ nói cho bạn biết, anh ấy luôn như vậy, ít nhất là khi tôi tương tác với anh ấy. Anh ấy luôn ở vị trí trung tâm của khối lượng.
    Vào cuối một ngày làm việc, điều này đã trở thành một việc khá phổ biến ở Silicon Valley. Nó diễn ra ở khu vực San Jose, Santa Clara, San Jose, mà tôi nhớ là vào năm 2016. Chúng tôi đã làm việc cả ngày trong một phần của dự án tư vấn cho công ty này. Vào buổi chiều, có những câu hỏi như: có nên nghỉ ngơi không? Hay tiếp tục làm việc? Anh ấy nói: không, chúng ta sẽ tiếp tục. Chúng ta sẽ làm điều này. Tôi nghĩ, ôi, người này thật quyết liệt. Anh ấy đang thay đồ vì anh ấy sẽ chạy đến sân bay, nhưng không phải bằng Uber hay lái xe đến sân bay. Anh ấy thực sự có ý định chạy đến đó. Và anh ấy đã làm. Bạn biết đấy, anh ấy rất năng động, rõ ràng là anh ấy có năng lượng hoặc đã tìm thấy năng lượng. Liệu bạn có thể rèn luyện điều đó không? Bạn có thể nâng cao mức dopamine cơ bản của mình không? Hay đây là hai câu hỏi riêng biệt?
    Đó là một câu hỏi tuyệt vời. Tôi không chắc chúng ta có câu trả lời cho điều đó không. Tôi nghĩ bạn có thể, nếu bạn trở nên hiệu quả hơn với bất kỳ dopamine hay các hóa chất thần kinh khác mà bạn có. Chúng ta biết rằng có rất nhiều biến thể gen và cá nhân đối với những điều này. Bạn biết đấy, có một câu đùa giữa các bậc phụ huynh, phải không? Rằng họ ra đời như thế nào thì sẽ như thế ấy. Như đứa trẻ trầm tính, đứa bé không khóc nhiều. Đứa bé vui vẻ sẽ vẫn là người vui vẻ. Bạn biết đấy, có những tình huống có thể thay đổi điều đó so với đứa bé khó chịu, mà vẫn khó chịu ngay cả khi đã trưởng thành. Các bậc phụ huynh thường nói như vậy, nhưng họ thường nói rất nhiều điều khác nhau. Nhưng bạn biết đấy, tôi biết những người như Rick Rubin, ví dụ, người rất năng động nhưng cũng rất bình tĩnh. Đó là một phần ma thuật của Rick. Anh ấy biết cách điều chỉnh và kiểm soát năng lượng của mình. Anh ấy có khả năng kỳ lạ để đến gần trải nghiệm đó, thật sự cảm nhận nó nhưng không bị cuốn theo. Ít nhất theo kinh nghiệm của tôi, anh ấy không cảm thấy kiệt sức bởi nó. Một số người bị cuốn theo mọi thứ và sau đó cảm thấy kiệt sức.
    Điều này có giống như cuộc trò chuyện về người hướng nội, người hướng ngoại không? Bởi vì hai người có thể ở trong cùng một căn phòng. Và tôi có thể coi mình là một người hơi hướng nội, xin lỗi, hướng ngoại, vì nếu tôi đứng trong một căn phòng trong hai đến ba giờ, với những cuộc trò chuyện tán gẫu, theo cách tôi mô tả, thì bộ não của tôi như bị cháy. Trong khi đó, trợ lý của tôi, Sophie, thì như thể bạn đã đổ nhiên liệu vào cô ấy.
    Vâng. Tôi cũng giống bạn. Tôi có một người bạn gái cũ rất thích tiệc tùng. Cô ấy nhận được rất nhiều năng lượng từ những buổi tiệc. Tôi thích một số buổi tiệc, nhưng tôi thích những cuộc trò chuyện nhỏ mà tôi có thể có ở một bữa tiệc. Điều đó thật sự phù hợp với tôi. Tôi nghĩ chúng ta có thể thay đổi. Để trả lời câu hỏi người hướng nội, người hướng ngoại, tôi thực sự nghĩ rằng một số người có được năng lượng từ các tương tác xã hội, trong khi những người khác thì ít hơn. Nhưng tôi biết những người khá trầm lặng, họ thích các tương tác xã hội. Họ chỉ là những người quan sát hơn là tham gia vào những tương tác đó. Về người hướng nội, người hướng ngoại, ít nhất là theo hiểu biết của tôi về khoa học, thì điều đó phụ thuộc phần nào vào tốc độ mà bạn cảm thấy no đủ với sự giao tiếp xã hội. Như tôi thích một bữa tiệc tốt, nhưng sau vài giờ, tôi cảm thấy đã mệt. Còn những người khác, họ có thể tiếp tục, tiếp tục, tiếp tục. Họ nhận thêm năng lượng từ điều đó. Tôi nghĩ, bạn biết đấy, chúng ta nghĩ về Goggins như một ví dụ biểu tượng vì anh ấy có khả năng tự thúc đẩy bản thân mặc cho những câu chuyện bên trong có thể là gì. Đó là cảm giác của tôi khi đã nói chuyện với anh ấy trong podcast của tôi và quan sát anh ấy trên mạng xã hội và các podcast khác. Một số người như Jocko Willink thể hiện điều đó, đừng nghĩ gì cả. Bạn làm vì đã 4:30 sáng và vào lúc 4:30 sáng, bạn phải tập thể dục. Đừng nghĩ, hãy làm. Trong khi khi nghĩ đến David, tôi nghĩ về nhiều điều, nhưng đặc biệt là về việc vượt qua giọng nói trong đầu đang cố kéo bạn xuống và đánh bại nó. Thực tế, có nhiều biểu hiện của bản thân trong não, điều này thật sự thú vị. Và khi tôi nghĩ về Rick, tôi nghĩ rằng Rick là hình mẫu trong tâm trí tôi về cảm giác sáng tạo, khả năng nhận ra những điều thực sự mới mẻ và độc đáo. Anh ấy có gu thẩm mỹ tuyệt vời, đúng không? Có khả năng thực sự cảm nhận rằng đây là điều mới và khác biệt và thú vị. Và anh ấy dường như hiểu mà không cần cố gắng tìm kiếm điều mà mọi người sẽ thích, điều mà mọi người chắc chắn yêu thích. Đó là một trong những siêu năng lực của anh ấy, và mỗi người đều có một siêu năng lực. Những điều đó chỉ là những điều cực đoan. Tôi nghĩ về Lex Friedman như một người rất chu đáo. Và tôi không nghĩ mọi người thực sự hiểu được Lex đã nghĩ về những bi kịch của thế giới, bóng tối trong thế giới khó khăn như thế nào, nhưng cũng có tình yêu trong thế giới. Ý tôi là, anh ấy thực sự có sự liên kết mạnh mẽ với những gì đang diễn ra trong tâm trí của anh ấy. Và anh ấy có khả năng thực sự đắm chìm trong điều đó. Bạn có thể cảm nhận được như thể anh ấy đứng sát cạnh lửa, như thể ở sát cận những điều đó. Và tôi nghĩ anh ấy đại diện cho một ví dụ biểu tượng của một nhà thám hiểm sẽ tìm kiếm ở bất kỳ đâu, ngay cả khi mọi người sẽ châm chọc anh ấy vì điều đó. Nhưng tôi nghĩ phần lớn mọi người đều ca ngợi anh ấy vì điều đó. Bạn biết đấy, vì vậy tôi nghĩ, những người khác nhau có những lăng kính khác nhau về cuộc sống và những khả năng khác nhau. Tôi nghĩ nếu ai đó muốn tăng cường mức dopamine cơ bản của mình, điều quan trọng là điều chỉnh những đỉnh cao và đáy. Tôi không tin vào việc không bao giờ có đỉnh cao dopamine, một bữa tiệc cưới tuyệt vời. Như tôi đã tham dự một số đám cưới mà chúng tôi đã tiệc tùng suốt đêm, hoặc những buổi hòa nhạc tuyệt vời. Tôi thực sự là một người hâm mộ lớn. Đó là một thể loại âm nhạc mà tôi không biết nhiều về, nhưng tôi luôn thích ban nhạc James. Bạn có biết ban nhạc đó không? Chúng tôi là James. Ồ, thật tuyệt vời. Được rồi. Tôi sẽ mất điểm punk khi nói điều này, nhưng đó là những buổi biểu diễn trực tiếp tuyệt vời nhất từ trước đến giờ. Chỉ đơn giản là những buổi biểu diễn trực tiếp tốt nhất mà tôi từng thấy. Và tôi biết có nhiều ý kiến khác nhau về những buổi biểu diễn trực tiếp tốt nhất dựa trên các thể loại âm nhạc. Tôi chỉ thấy, đó giống như bữa tiệc tuyệt vời nhất mà bạn từng tham dự. Và tôi có một nguồn năng lượng tăng cường kéo dài hai, ba ngày từ điều đó. Tôi không tiêu thụ bất kỳ chất nào trong những buổi biểu diễn đó.
    Chúng xảy ra rất hiếm khi, nhưng khi tôi đi vắng hai hoặc ba ngày, tôi cảm thấy như một con người đã thay đổi. Đó là một sự thay đổi rõ rệt trong trạng thái hoá sinh thần kinh. Và tôi không cảm thấy tụt dốc sau đó. Vì vậy, tôi muốn làm rõ. Có những thứ như các buổi lễ, các buổi hòa nhạc. Chúng dường như đem lại cho chúng ta những cú bùng nổ lớn về hoá chất thần kinh, nhưng chúng không để lại cho chúng ta cảm giác kiệt sức. Và tôi rất tò mò về những trải nghiệm này vì khi tôi nhìn vào một số ví dụ, tôi có một số người bạn đã rất thành công trong lĩnh vực công nghệ và tài chính. Họ kiếm được rất nhiều tiền và tôi luôn lo lắng về họ sau đó. Không thể tránh khỏi, họ cuối cùng cũng rơi vào trầm cảm, không biết họ muốn làm gì. Vì vậy, tôi luôn khuyến khích họ tiếp tục làm việc. Thực tế, những người hạnh phúc nhất trong lĩnh vực công nghệ và tài chính là những người tiếp tục làm việc ngay cả khi họ đã trở nên giàu có.
    Những người tôi thấy rất hạnh phúc là những người biết nhận thức về các mức năng lượng, sự tò mò và động lực tự nhiên của họ. Bạn biết đấy, chúng ta có thể nói về dopamine, nhưng đó chỉ là một hình thức đại diện cho một loạt các thứ khác. Và điều đó là chưa đầy đủ, đúng không? Còn nhiều hóa chất khác liên quan, nhưng vì lý do cuộc trò chuyện, chúng ta có thể nói về dopamine, catecholamines, epinephrine. Và bạn phần nào biết khả năng của chúng trên một cơ sở nhất quán. Tôi nghĩ một trong những lời khuyên tốt nhất mà tôi từng nhận được là từ một bác sĩ thần kinh tên là Bob Knight khi tôi còn là sinh viên sau đại học. Ông ấy nói, hãy xác định xem bạn có thể làm bao nhiêu việc trong bốn đến năm năm tới trên một cơ sở nhất quán vì điều đó sẽ thay đổi khi bạn lớn tuổi, có thể thậm chí không giảm xuống. Vì vậy, ví dụ, tôi biết rằng tôi có thể làm việc liên tục 12 giờ một ngày. Đó là tôi, 12 giờ một ngày, năm, có thể sáu ngày trong tuần, nhưng tôi thích một ngày nghỉ hoàn toàn trong tuần. Tôi chỉ thích điều đó. Thông thường, đó là chủ nhật đối với tôi. Tôi sẽ tập thể dục và làm một số điều khác. Nhưng nếu tôi cố gắng làm việc 15 giờ một ngày hoặc 12 giờ một ngày, bảy ngày một tuần, tôi sẽ gặp rắc rối. Với những người khác, họ cần làm việc ít hơn. Và bây giờ một số người sẽ nói, được rồi, nhưng bạn có con cái không? Và cái này cái kia. Tôi không nói làm việc nghĩa là gì. Nó có thể là sự nghiệp, có thể là gia đình hoặc cả hai. Nhưng tôi không phải là người có một lượng năng lượng vô hạn, nhưng tôi có rất nhiều năng lượng. Nếu bạn có ít năng lượng hơn, bạn có thể làm các điều như cố gắng ngủ đủ giấc, cố gắng ăn uống càng tốt càng tốt. Bạn có thể phải làm nhiều hơn để có thêm năng lượng, nhưng bạn phải chấp nhận trạng thái cơ bản của riêng mình. Và tôi chắc chắn biết nhiều người có tính cách điềm tĩnh hơn, bình tĩnh hơn, có thể nói là “ít năng lượng” hơn. Họ chỉ hiệu quả hơn với năng lượng đó. Họ sử dụng nó một cách chính xác. Họ không lãng phí năng lượng của mình. Tôi biết những người có thể cuộn Instagram cả ngày, nói về những gì đang diễn ra trên Twitter, nghe ba podcast, lập trình và làm hàng triệu thứ. Tôi nghĩ họ không sao cả. Vì vậy, tôi nghĩ chúng ta phải biết được nhịp điệu của mình và rằng chúng ta có thể lệch khỏi điều đó khoảng 15 đến 20%. Nhưng bất kỳ điều gì cực đoan hơn thì chúng ta sẽ gặp rắc rối.
    Tôi nghĩ một phần lớn lý do khiến mọi người tò mò về dopamine là bởi vì cuối cùng họ muốn trở nên sản xuất hơn hoặc hiệu quả hơn trong một mục tiêu nào đó trong cuộc sống của họ. Nó có thể là việc xây dựng một doanh nghiệp. Nó có thể là một podcast, bất cứ điều gì. Vì vậy, với tất cả những gì bạn biết về dopamine và cách nó hoạt động, nếu bạn đang cho tôi lời khuyên về cách tôi có thể trở thành một doanh nhân, podcaster tốt hơn, bất kỳ điều gì, điều đầu tiên tôi nhận được từ bạn là về ý tưởng chuyển tiếp giữa các trạng thái và cũng cho phép thời gian để các nguồn lực của tôi hồi phục sau một hoạt động có dopamine cao. Liệu có điều gì khác mà tôi nên nghĩ đến không?
    Vâng. Chúng ta có thể cụ thể hóa điều này một cách rõ ràng. Hãy ngủ đủ giấc cho bạn. Đối với một số người, đó là sáu giờ. Đối với một số người, đó là tám giờ. Tôi muốn đập tan huyền thoại, mặc dù bạn tôi, Matt Walker có thể sẽ tức giận với tôi vì đã nói điều này. Không phải ai cũng cần tám hoặc chín giờ ngủ. Được rồi. Tôi có sáu giờ tối qua. Tôi thực sự đi ngủ lúc nửa đêm tối qua. Ồ, xin lỗi. Tôi có sáu giờ và 45 phút tối qua. Tôi đi ngủ lúc nửa đêm, điều đó có vẻ hơi muộn với tôi. Tôi thức dậy lúc 6 giờ 45 phút. Nhưng hãy ngủ đủ giấc. Nếu bạn thức dậy vào buổi sáng và không thể ngủ thêm vì bất kỳ lý do gì, không thể ngủ lại hoặc phải ra khỏi giường. Nếu bạn không cảm thấy được nghỉ ngơi, tôi khuyên bạn nên thực hiện một bài tập nghỉ ngơi sâu không ngủ hoặc quy trình yoga nidra trong vòng 10 hoặc 20 phút. Chúng có sẵn miễn phí trên YouTube. Bạn có thể tìm kiếm NSDR tên tôi. Nếu bạn muốn nghe tôi làm một cái, bạn có thể tìm NSDR Kelly Boys, người có những bài yoga nidra tuyệt vời. Cô ấy có một giọng nói rất dễ chịu. Nếu bạn thích giọng nữ, có những bài yoga nidra tuyệt vời của một người phụ nữ tên là Kamini Desai. Dù sao, đây đều là những kịch bản miễn phí có sẵn trên YouTube. Thế nó là gì? Đó là nghỉ ngơi sâu không ngủ, tương tự như yoga nidra. Bởi vì bạn vừa thực hiện một cái hôm nay. Bạn đã làm một cái hôm nay trên đường đến đây. Được rồi. Đây là những gì chúng ta biết nó làm. Nó phục hồi các mức dopamine cơ bản trong hạch nền. Chuẩn bị cho bạn cho hành động, cả hành động tinh thần lẫn hành động thể chất. Thực sự có thể giúp bù đắp cho một số giấc ngủ mà có thể bạn đã không có, nhưng bạn cần. Chúng ta biết rằng não bộ đi vào một trạng thái ngủ giả trong trạng thái này. Và cũng có một số bằng chứng cho thấy yoga nidra và các thực hành tương tự có thể cải thiện tỷ lệ học tập. Được rồi. Đó là những lợi ích. Thế nó là gì? Nó liên quan đến những gì hầu hết mọi người gọi là thiền, nhưng nó khác với thiền. Bạn nằm xuống, bạn cũng có thể ngồi, nhưng bạn nằm xuống, nhắm mắt lại, và bạn thực hiện hơi thở dài hít ra. Khi chúng ta thở ra, chúng ta thực sự làm chậm nhịp tim của mình. Tôi có thể nói về điều này ra sao. Điều này xảy ra qua sự thay đổi nhịp thở. Đây là mối quan hệ giữa dây thần kinh phế vị và nhịp đập của tim. Nhưng trong mọi trường hợp, khi chúng ta hít vào, tim chúng ta thực sự tăng nhẹ nhịp đập. Và khi chúng ta thở ra, nó làm chậm nhẹ nhịp đập.
    Vì vậy, điều này liên quan đến việc thở ra dài và nhiều. Nó bao gồm việc quét cơ thể, nơi bạn cố ý thư giãn các khía cạnh khác nhau của cơ thể bạn. Đầu tiên là đôi chân của bạn, sau đó là chân, rồi đến tay. Đây có thể gọi là một kiểu quét cơ thể với việc thở ra dài. Và nó đưa bạn vào một trạng thái mà có thể gọi là giả ngủ. Bạn đang ở giữa trạng thái ngủ và thức. Giờ đây, điều tuyệt vời của NSDR và yoga nidra là phần hướng dẫn ở đầu buổi là hãy giữ cho mình tỉnh táo. Nếu bạn ngủ thiếp đi, không sao cả. Chỉ cần đảm bảo bạn đặt báo thức nếu bạn phải đi làm hoặc làm việc khác. Nhưng bằng cách giữ tỉnh táo trong khi rất thư giãn, dường như hệ thần kinh có thể tiếp tục duy trì trong một trạng thái như ngủ đủ để bạn bổ sung một số hóa chất thần kinh giúp chuẩn bị cho các hành động nhận thức và thể chất. Hiện tại có các buổi NSDR từ 10 phút, 20 phút. Còn có cả yoga nidra dài đến một giờ và những thứ tương tự. Vậy nên, điều này tùy thuộc vào thời gian bạn có trước khi cần phải dậy. Nếu bạn ngủ ngon vào đêm hôm trước, bạn thức dậy sau sáu, tám giờ và bạn đã sẵn sàng để bắt đầu, thì hãy đi thôi. Nhưng nếu không, tôi rất khuyên bạn nên thực hiện buổi NSDR từ 10, 20 hoặc 30 phút. Bạn sẽ thấy mình sẽ cảm thấy được nghỉ ngơi nhiều hơn. Bạn sẽ cảm thấy tỉnh táo và tràn đầy năng lượng hơn khi bạn ra khỏi trạng thái đó. Thật đáng kinh ngạc. Phòng thí nghiệm của Matt Walker và tôi đang chuẩn bị thực hiện một số nghiên cứu về điều này để tìm ra chính xác những gì đang xảy ra. Liệu bộ não có thật sự đi vào trạng thái ngủ hay đó là một điều hoàn toàn khác? Chúng tôi vẫn chưa biết rõ. Dù sao đi nữa, nó chắc chắn hiệu quả. Và sớm thôi chúng tôi sẽ biết cơ chế chính xác trong bộ não, nhưng việc tăng cường dopamine là rất rõ ràng từ các nghiên cứu hiện có. Vậy bạn đang làm gì ở đó? Bạn thực chất đang lấp đầy kho chứa cho một ngày hoạt động, được không? Sau đó, tôi khuyên bạn nên bổ sung nước, điều này có tác động sâu sắc đến mức năng lượng. Khoảng 16 đến 32 ounce nước. Một số người tranh luận về việc uống nước từ nhựa hay không. Bạn có phải lọc nước của mình không, và những thứ tương tự? Bạn biết đấy, điều này phụ thuộc vào ngân sách, sở thích và mức độ lo lắng. Tôi uống nước lọc. Tôi thường uống từ sứ hoặc thủy tinh, nhưng thỉnh thoảng tôi cũng uống từ chai nhựa. Tôi không quá lo lắng về những điều đó, nhưng nếu bạn lo lắng, cũng không sao. Và chúng ta đều nên hạn chế lượng rác thải nhựa trong đại dương. Vậy là bạn hãy nhớ cung cấp nước. Sau đó, một số người như tôi sẽ rất tốt nếu có một chút tập thể dục và ánh nắng mặt trời, tốt nhất là đồng thời, nhưng chắc chắn hãy có một chút ánh sáng mặt trời và tập thể dục trước khi uống caffeine. Một số người làm điều đó, một số người thì không. Tôi cũng hiểu và hoàn toàn ủng hộ những người muốn uống cà phê hoặc trà ngay khi buổi sáng. Không có quy tắc nào nói rằng bạn không thể làm điều đó. Nhưng với tôi, tôi sẽ dậy, sử dụng nhà vệ sinh nếu bạn cần, cung cấp nước và sau đó hãy để ánh sáng sáng chiếu vào mắt bạn, lý tưởng là từ ánh nắng mặt trời ngay vào buổi sáng. Tại sao? À, có một câu chuyện hoàn chỉnh về sinh học nhịp sinh học ở đây mà tôi có thể kể cho bạn, nhưng tôi đã nói về điều đó nhiều lần trước đây. Chỉ cần nói rằng ánh sáng sáng, lý tưởng từ ánh nắng mặt trời vào mắt bạn, thậm chí qua lớp mây, sẽ làm tăng đáng kể việc giải phóng cortisol trong não và cơ thể bạn. Đó là một sự tăng cường cortisol tốt, khỏe mạnh, liên quan đến sự chuyển giao sang trạng thái tỉnh dậy. Vì vậy, chúng ta biết rằng ánh sáng sáng vào buổi sáng, đặc biệt là từ ánh nắng mặt trời, làm tăng tâm trạng, sự tập trung và độ cảnh giác ban ngày, và nó sẽ cải thiện giấc ngủ của bạn vào đêm hôm đó.
    我們可以再次通過生物學的視角來看待事物,問自己,我們在談論能量時到底在談些什麼?這種人們所討論的能量到底是什麼?我認為,這主要可以歸結為這些酪胺類物質,即多巴胺、腎上腺素和去甲腎上腺素的混合物,這些物質使大腦進入一種注意力和動機的狀態。我們現在知道,多巴胺更多是與尋求獎勵的動機有關,而不是與快感或獎勵的感受有關。對此有很多可以提及的地方。還要記住,這三種神經化學物質,多巴胺、去甲腎上腺素和腎上腺素,已經成為了人類和其他哺乳動物在過去幾十萬年中設定和追求目標的神經化學雞尾酒。因此,我們並沒有一個獨特的系統或獨特的神經化學系統來尋找配偶、食物、建造庇護所或者創造技術以及整個社會。而不僅僅是這三種神經化學物質,肯定還有其他因素涉及,比如乙醯膽鹼等等,而神經可塑性也是至關重要的。但顯然,令大腦設定我們進入前進的質心的貨幣——例如,想像某些事物、探索——並不只是這些。不是在那里,這邊走。啊,這裡有一種氣味。而實際上用某種氣味來交換,例如,「哦,這裡有些有趣的東西,有趣的人」,然後探索那邊,不,這是一條死路,要轉身,哦,這裡。然後連接這些進展的節點。什麼是進展?啊,這樣我們又會感受到這些酪胺類物質的另一波激增,使我們保持前進的質心。你知道,我並不想過度簡化生物學,但例如,當我們談論能量時,晚上休息、睡眠、花幾分鐘冥想,或者做這個我極力推崇的非睡眠深度休息(NSDR)這種實踐,類似於身體掃描、深度放鬆和長時間的呼氣,這是一種與古老的實踐瑜伽尼德拉非常相似的做法,已經被實踐了幾千年。這是一種偽睡眠。我們從一個非常好的研究中知道,NSDR(非睡眠深度休息),也就是瑜伽尼德拉,可以將大腦一個名為基底神經節的區域中多巴胺的基線水平提高約60%。僅僅短時間內進行這種實踐就可以在相當大的程度上重新提高多巴胺水平。這是一項了不起的研究,還有其他類似的研究。
    那麼這意味著什麼呢?這意味著在休息中,我們積累了一種在休息後能夠向前出發的能力。因此,我認為我們每隔24小時必須睡覺。這就是為什麼我們故意讓自己冷靜下來和靜止下來的做法可以讓我們在心理和身體上更好地向前出發的原因。聽到這一點的時候,我們只會想,哦,當然是休息,行動,休息,行動。但是還有很多內容。如果你開始探索這些層次,你會開始意識到,對事物的興奮感與倦怠。什麼是倦怠?就是試圖過長時間地保持向前的質心。這是多巴胺回路的誤用。我們忽略了這些酪胺類物質,尤其是多巴胺,並不是無限可用的,對吧?它們是可以被消耗的儲備,但也可以被補充。其中一個最好的類比實際上是由一位名叫凱爾·吉萊特博士告訴我的。他從事一些公共醫療工作,尤其在內分泌學方面。他說,多巴胺就像一個波池。你有這個儲備,可以讓你去追尋事物或瀏覽互聯網或建立事業,無論是什麼。如果你非常強烈地處於向前的質心,你開始產生這些波。不過,如果你有很大的多巴胺波,並且它們從池中崩潰下來,你就會開始消耗儲備。因此,當我想到濫用藥物如可卡因,這會導致多巴胺的巨大激增或者安非他命,巨大的多巴胺激增時,我們知道巨大激增的多巴胺會發生什麼呢?在這些巨大的激增之後,你會掉到低於初始基線的狀態,在這種狀態下,相同的事物已經沒有那麼令人愉悅了。你需要更多的能量來獲得相同的成果。
    這就是這個意思,對吧?這就是這個意思。
    我會把這個放在屏幕上給大家看。
    是的。所以我在斯坦福的同事,安娜·倫克博士,她負責我們的雙重診斷成癮診所,並撰寫了精彩的書籍《多巴胺國度》,她對此做出了最好的描述。這有點像盪鞦韆,但你在可卡因等濫用藥物上得到了一個大峰值的多巴胺。吸食可卡因的人,他們全心全意都在想下一個點子。他們不是在說「好吧,我們就放鬆一下」。他們全心關注著接下來的事情,實際上,他們每秒都有一百萬個主意。大部分都是糟糕的主意,但他們的動機十分強烈。然而,當藥物效果消退時,他們會感到非常沮喪,情緒低落。多巴胺實際上已經低於基線。那些過度工作的人,對吧?我們每個人的運動能力各有不同,但那些過度工作並為此濫用興奮劑的人會達到這些峰值。那麼,過度工作的日常例子是什麼呢?
    你是指像預鍛這樣的東西嗎?
    是的,我並不是反對預鍛飲料。聽著,我喜歡休息好,保持水分,喝一杯不錯的預鍛飲料,甚至來一點濃縮咖啡,聽著音樂,並擁有一次驚人的腿部訓練工作。這是一種很棒的感覺,對吧?但如果你每次都這樣做,你就會開始堆疊這些誘導酪胺類物質釋放的藥物,好吧?所以你在獲得腎上腺素,還有引起腎上腺素的物質,對不起。
    你正在釋放腎上腺素和去甲腎上腺素,也稱為去甲腎上腺素。你正在釋放多巴胺。你高度激勵,進入了一種每個人都在尋求的狀態。如果你試圖每週七天都這樣,你是做不到的。然後你會想,為什麼在下午你會完全筋疲力盡,無法進行任何認知工作。事實上,你的多巴胺和其他物質已經下降到低於基線。我認為了解保持所謂的前移質量中心,真正激勵自己並追求目標是多麼重要。但大多數時間,我們其實最好的辦法是稍微減少油門,以保持繼續朝前移動的能力。
    壓力的情況也是如此。我們經常聽到壓力不好。確實,壓力不好,但它也能增強你學習的能力,帶來能量,短期內實際上增強你的免疫系統。我建議耐受你所能忍受的壓力,只要你仍然能表現得像一個善良的人,對吧?不要說或做不友善的事情,並確保你晚上的睡眠質量良好。大多數人壓力、壓力、不斷奔波,然後晚上卻睡不著。第二天他們就會精疲力竭。但一點點壓力是健康的,生活中充滿壓力,事情是有壓力的。但再說一次,如果你保持冷靜和警覺,你的心態會處於最佳狀態。冷靜和警覺是魔法配方,也是夜晚能夠入睡的能力。如果你想服用大量的預訓練補充品,並想聽一些大聲的音樂,享受一次出色的鍛煉,那很好。但你也應該能在沒有這些的情況下訓練。如果你是一個熱愛新目標的人,比如你對旅行、這個那個非常興奮,那好啊。但你是非得層層堆疊50件事情嗎?然後你坐在家裡,想知道為什麼你回家後如此無聊,生活為什麼如此抑鬱,為什麼需要更多的旅行和刺激。在生活的每個領域中,無論是食物、運動、刺激物、性愛還是媒體。如果把事情推到極限,你會感到精疲力竭和刺激不足。而這種低於基線的狀態,正如安娜·倫基在《多巴胺國度》中教導的那樣,這個低谷可以持續很長時間。這持續的時間與那個多巴胺的高峰有多高成正比,而不是持續的時間,而是那個多巴胺高峰有多高。而當你在那個低谷,多巴胺耗竭的狀態時,通常會激活多巴胺迴路的東西。所有它所做的只是讓他們進一步、進一步進入那個低谷。所需要的是一段等待的時間,避免任何這些過度的奢侈,讓他們恢復到基線。我們從濫用藥物中知道,想要得到高峰所需的藥物越來越多,卻總是只能獲得更少的快感。幾乎所有的成癮和強迫行為實質上可以通過30到60天的禁欲期來治癒,對於那些非常渴望尋找或從事某事的人來說,這聽起來簡直是一場噩夢。但這是非常有效的。有些人是在工作和刺激物上,許多人服用阿莫達非尼並不斷工作。我經常聽他們的分享。他們通常來自科技和金融界,他們常常在心裡想,為什麼我會感到筋疲力盡?哦,你這幾年一直在強化這些去甲腎上腺素調節的迴路。你需要接受自己會感到有點低迷一週,之後你會感覺好一些,然後你會回到基線。只有到了那時,你才能真正回到完全的前移質量中心。但在那時,你可以引入一些,我確實認為某些注意力缺陷過動症藥物(如安非他命)是有臨床用例的,有些人是需要這些藥物的。其他人則是把自己推進了這個多巴胺低谷,所以他們尋找任何能讓他們擺脫低谷的東西,實際上他們需要做的是遠離這些東西,並靜靜等待,靜靜等待。可以去度假,找到小事中的獎勵。這就是為什麼狗和簡單的事物是如此美好。如果這聽起來對你來說沉重而乏味,機率上你可能有點在多巴胺循環中。我以前也曾在這些循環中,難以脫離。但一旦你脫離它們,回頭一看,你會想,我到底在想什麼?你當時處於不同的狀態,當你在追求的時候,你是一種與眾不同的存在。
    我認為這是非常重要的,因為它讓人們理解他們為什麼會這樣做。在今天來這裡之前,並在了解了一些這些事情之前,我曾認為多巴胺,只是不知道,它是一種也許以這種衝擊的方式存在的東西。如果我做了某些事情,我就獲得多巴胺,然後又回到了基線。如果我再做一些刺激的事情,我就再次獲得多巴胺,然後又回到基線。但實際上發生的事情是,我正在進行某種刺激的行為,獲得了一個巨大的高峰,然後在一段時間內下降到基礎以下。在我低於基線的時候,正是我最有可能想做一些能再次有衝擊感的事情。沒錯。而當我看到這一點時,它讓我想起了我戴過的一個持續血糖監測器,因為這是一個非常相似的模式。如果我攝取大量糖分,我會出現一個巨大的峰值,然後下降到我的基線以下。這是一個很好的觀察。這是完美的類比。完美的類比。因為這些調節系統都是在努力維持體內平衡。我們都聽說過,我們學習到的平衡的渴望。
    人類的身體和生理實際上是更傾向於一種叫做「全穩態」(allostasis)的概念,這涉及到壓力調節。但不深入過多的細節,你知道,這些是動態系統,意味著大腦系統的設計是讓我們在需要時能夠克服挑戰,對吧?這就是為什麼我總是反對「壓力會崩潰你的免疫系統」這種想法。什麼會崩潰你的免疫系統呢?那就是非常非常壓力大、工作繁忙、照顧他人,然後突然停下來。當你停下來時,你總是會生病。為什麼?因為實際上,壓力會激活免疫系統。從進化的角度來看,這很有道理,對吧?然後當我們休息時,轟的一聲,我們的免疫系統稍微放鬆一下,然後我們就容易受到細菌或病毒的影響。所以這意味著什麼呢?這意味著我們應該學會調節自己的狀態。這就像開車一樣。每當我們感覺自己在接近或處於巔峰狀態時,我們應該適當地輕微減少這種狀態,尤其是當這種巔峰狀態是透過藥物或一些極端情況而來的時候。稍微退後一點,可能多一點,好嗎?所以當我們這麼做時,我們學會掌握這些所謂的“前重心、穩定或後腳跟”的過渡狀態。這是我從一位前海豹突擊隊成員那裡學到的術語。他說,在生活中的任何事情上,你可以選擇後腳跟的狀態,像真的受到挑戰一樣,穩定的狀態,就像冷靜地站著,或者是前重心的狀態,像是全力以赴。我認為大多數人都會非常適合學會掌握清醒與入睡之間的過渡狀態,對吧?許多人無法入睡。很多人根本無法關閉思緒。你可以通過做一些非睡眠深休息、長時間的呼氣、自我導向的零成本工具來學會這樣做,這些工具有助於調整你的自律神經系統,讓它更偏向於所謂的副交感神經系統,更多地進入休息和消化的狀態,單純的長呼氣。第一次可能不會起作用,但隨著時間的推移,這些會成為非常有效的工具,幫助你自我調整狀態,從前重心到穩定,然後像是稍微放鬆一下,回到後腳跟,然後你就能入睡了。早上醒來時,有些人會感到筋疲力盡。也許你睡得不夠,但學會前重心不應該需要過量的咖啡因、興奮劑、超大聲的音樂或一些震驚的短信或電子郵件。理想情況下,你可以快速過渡到前重心,但不會是全力以赴的前重心。為什麼我這麼說?我認為對於任何想要在任何領域中成功的人來說,無論是學術、商業、創意事業等等,如果你想有一個長期的生活和職業生涯,你真的需要控制這些過渡狀態。當我說控制時,實際上只是需要注意這些狀態,並注意到,確實有些人天生精力更多。他們可以在最大輸出下完成每一次鍛煉,然後洗澡,在健身房裡交談,然後進入其他活動。有些人就是這樣。有些人,比如我自己,如果早上全力以赴,到了下午會稍微感到疲憊。因此我需要10分鐘或20分鐘的非睡眠深休息,或者小睡一下,或者只是長時間的安靜呼氣,或許再加一點咖啡因,這是我現在正在喝的。健康的刺激劑沒什麼不妥,只要是適度消費,也許一杯能量飲料,對某些人來說也是不錯的選擇。然後,就是真正全力以赴,專注於自己的注意力。然後之後,花幾分鐘來減速。我們聽到很多有關冥想、非睡眠深休息或冰浴的力量的談論。冷水浸泡和冷水淋浴能做些什麼呢?它們會刺激釋放一些類似於去甲腎上腺素、多巴胺、腎上腺素的物質,這些物質持續的釋放。所以在我看來,這點很有用。對於所有關於故意冷暴露的辯論,它是否會增加新陳代謝?答案似乎是可能微乎其微,但毫無疑問,它會導致腎上腺素、多巴胺和去甲腎上腺素的劇增,而這些是非常持久的。這會讓你感覺良好,特別是在你從寒冷中出來時。我認為這正是它的價值。它還能幫助你省下取暖的費用。你不必有一個冷水浴缸,你可以洗冷水澡。沒有人喜歡這樣,但重點在於你出來時會感覺不同。這是一種狀態的轉變。這很棒,但你不想做得太過火,因為人們總是問,應該在冷水浸泡或冷水淋浴中停留多長時間?我會說做最少的時間,以獲得你想要的效果,也就是讓自己更清醒和有動力。我有一個朋友,他出於某種原因裸體在冷水浴缸裡待了30分鐘。他說,我在冷水浴缸裡裸體待了30分鐘,然後我生病了,感到非常低落。我說,因為你待了30分鐘。我不確定裸體與這有什麼關係,但他還是必須提到這一點,他是一個相對極端的人。我說,那麼1分鐘呢?30秒呢?或者根本不看時間?只要進去,待到你想出來為止,然後推過那個障礙,然後出來。那可能是一分鐘,也可能是三分鐘。你知道,保護自己,保持安全,但也要學會克服一些挑戰,然後出來。你知道,我們有一種執念,認為越多越好,但事實上,更多並不一定更好。你要尋求最小的有效劑量,或許多一點因為我們不知道最小的界限在哪裡。
    人們常常問,健身房裡做了多少組?你知道,現在似乎一切都關於訓練量和肌肉增長,或者我一直以來恢復能力都比較低。因此對我來說,我喜歡做幾組熱身,幾組艱難的重訓,兩到三組艱難的重訓,再做另一個動作,也做兩到三組艱難的重訓。就這樣,針對那個肌肉群。然後就轉向下一個。人們總是說,訓練量才是關鍵。好的,太棒了。但當我每週對每個肌肉群做 16 到 20 組時,我告訴你,我會感到筋疲力盡。這對我來說並不有效。老實說,我會對那些運動科學家發自內心地笑,他們說,這就是這項研究的結果。很好,但這對我來說並不奏效。即使我是一名科學家,並且相信數據,我也相信自己的經驗。沒有人能告訴我這是安慰劑,因為這對我有用。因此,我認為你必須找到自己的能力。還有,如果你看看我所著迷的狗品種,你會發現,如果你參加一次狗展——每個人都應該至少參加一次狗展,但不要只看比賽,去比賽後面看看不同的狗品種。你會看到我第一次看時所看到的。你會看到一些狗總是搖著尾巴,很興奮,很警覺。你可以看到他們的眼睛,很明亮。你可以看到大丹犬,它們非常安靜。而我最喜歡的品種,也是我擁有它們的原因,是斗牛犬。它們體現了效率的本質。它們甚至不會把頭抬離地面。你走過來,撫摸它們,它們會抬頭看你,甚至可能會眨眼。非常安靜的動物。非常強壯,但也非常安靜的動物。現在,你可能已經察覺到,我和它們不太一樣。我有點更衝動活動等等。因此,我需要很多心理和生理的刺激才能感到快樂,才能感到滿足。對我來說,有很多工作,我仍然在努力學習如何減速,放鬆自己,成為一個好睡眠者,成為一個在白天中間能夠重置自己的人,通過非睡眠深度休息,對我來說這是最有效的工具之一,或者通過長時間的呼氣來讓自己平靜下來。其他人往往能量比生活需求的要少,因此他們需要更多的冷水淋浴,更多的咖啡因,但這些人可能需要更多的休息。他們就像生活中的斗牛犬。我認為儘管我們都是同一物種,但就像狗一樣,存在著很大的變化。因此你必須認識自己,正如神諭所說,了解一些有關兒茶酚胺的知識,理解某些事物,例如運動、故意的冷暴露、咖啡因等興奮劑和處方藥,如阿莫達非尼等,能夠強有力地促使這些兒茶酚胺的釋放,多巴胺、腎上腺素和去甲腎上腺素,這會大幅增加能量和專注力。然而,總是有代價,隨之而來的低谷。接受它,放鬆適應,然後回到基準狀態,接著再前進或完全避免這些東西。我不是在告訴人們該怎麼做。顯然,尤其是處方藥的問題對某些人來說可能是有問題的,甚至可能上癮。絕對不喜歡像可卡因、安非他命等濫用藥物。從來沒有做過,以後也不會。而一些傾向於過度活躍的人,會有更多自發的運動。這些人往往輕薄一些,或天生就有很多活力。這些人真的需要學會融入更多我所謂的平靜和放鬆的練習。也許多用桑拿而不是冷水浴。也許不要把桑拿調到 220 度。我發現自己有時會這樣做,我會想:放鬆,享受桑拿。因此,我認為美好生活和高效生活的關鍵在於學會掌握過渡狀態,了解一些生物學知識,真正了解自己,不僅是你的自然傾向,像服從鬥牛犬一樣,而是我不知道,鬥牛犬總是有尾巴在搖,活動力更強。還有其他品種。但也要知道,在某一天,你的休息程度可能多或少,因生活經歷而感到的消耗會有所不同,並認識到自己當前的狀態,並找出當天的最佳狀態。事實上,我忘了那個男的是誰,他在 Instagram 上,有很多自助帳戶,而有很多自助帳戶存在。但最近我聽到的最好的事情之一,我嘗試將它融入我的生活。事實上,它在我的筆記本裡,當我早上醒來時,我會大致評估自己的疲憊程度。我會確定當天需要做的事情。然後我會問自己,有什麼我可以做的事情能使自己和他人的生活變得更好?有時這意味著多休息一點。有時,這意味著多推進一點。有時,這意味著給一個你已經很久沒說話的親戚打電話。但考慮到如何在一天的時間尺度上改善自己和他人的狀況,我認為這是可管理的,也是現實的。這使得整個協議、增強生物學、處方藥、補充劑和鍛鍊的概念更接地氣。因此,我認為我們生活在一個幾乎像這些不同事物的化身的時代。就像我想到大衛·戈金斯,我從同事的角度非常了解他,我把他當作朋友,但我們從未在工作以外的地方聚過。2016 年我第一次見到大衛。我告訴你,無論何時我與他互動,都是這樣的。他總是那樣,始終保持重心向前。
    這是在工作的一天中已經很晚的時候。這在矽谷是常有的事。這是在聖荷西、聖克拉拉、聖荷西地區,應該是2016年。我們整天都在這個公司的諮詢工作中,到了下午,大家在想:我們休息一下嗎?還是持續下去?他說,不,我們要推進。我們要做這件事。我心想,哇,這傢伙真有生命力。他要去機場,但不是搭Uber或自己開車去,而是說要跑去機場。結果他真的這樣做了。
    所以,他的重心在前方,顯然他有能量,或者說他找到能量了。這種能量可以訓練嗎?可以提高你所謂的多巴胺基線水平嗎?抑或這是兩個不同的問題?
    這是一個很好的問題。我不知道我們是否有確定的答案。我認為如果你對自己體內的多巴胺或其他神經化學物質變得更有效率,或許是可以的。我們知道這些東西有很大的基因和個體變異性。你知道,父母中間有個笑話,就是「他們的出生狀態決定了他們的成長狀態」。像是那個沉穩的孩子,沉穩的寶寶不怎麼哭,快樂的寶寶長大後仍然是快樂的人。你知道,有些情況可以改變這種情況,與那些總是煩躁的寶寶相比,他們即使長大了還是會這樣。父母有時這樣說,但父母總是會說各種各樣的事情。不過,我知道像Rick Rubin這樣的人,他的能量非常高,但卻又很冷靜,這是Rick的特質之一。他知道如何調節和控制自己的能量。他有一種超凡的能力,能夠接近並體驗那些情感,真正感受它們,但不會被它們所吞噬。至少在我知識範圍內,他似乎沒有因此而感到疲憊。有些人則會被事物吞噬,然後感到疲憊。
    這是否也類似於內向和外向的對話?因為兩個人可以在同一個房間內。我認為自己有點偏向於內向,抱歉,我是內向者。如果我在一個房間裡待上兩到三小時進行寒暄,我會覺得我的大腦快要炸了。與此相比,我的助理Sophie就像是你給她加了燃料。
    是的,我和你很相似。我有一位前女友特別喜歡派對。她可以從派對中獲得很多能量。我喜歡某些派對,但更喜歡在派對上進行小型對話。這和我很有共鳴。我認為我們可以改變。至於內向外向的問題,我認為有些人能從社交互動中獲得能量,而另一些人則不然。但我也知道一些相當安靜的人同樣喜歡社交互動。他們只是更像是觀察者,而不是參與者。內向外向的差別,我的理解是,這在於你從社交活動中充電的速度。像我喜歡熱鬧的派對,但幾個小時後我就會覺得疲憊。而其他人可以不斷地自由活動,從中獲得更多能量。我認為,我們認為Goggins是一個典型的例子,因為他能夠推動自己,而不管內心的詮釋如何。這是我與他在我的播客上談過這個話題以及在社交媒體和其他播客上觀察他的感受。像Jocko Willink之類的人則體現了「別想了,去做吧」。因為現在是凌晨4:30,凌晨4:30你要鍛鍊身體。不要思考,去做。而當我想到David的時候,我想到很多事情,但特別是要克服心中那個想要將你拉下來的聲音,並戰勝它。事實上,擁有多重自我的表現,在大腦中這是一個令人著迷的事情。
    然後當我想到Rick時,我認為Rick在我心目中是因為他的創造力而獨具代表性,他能夠感知什麼是真正的全新和獨特的。他擁有驚人的品味,對於能夠真正感知到這是新鮮和不同且令人興奮的事物,似乎他不試圖尋求別人會喜歡什麼。哪些是人們注定會喜愛的東西。所以這是他的眾多超能力之一,每個人都有自己的超能力,這些只是極端的例子。我認為Lex Friedman是一個非常有思想的人。我不認為人們真正明白Lex有多麼努力地思考世界上的悲劇、世界上的黑暗,但也思考著世界上的愛。我是說,他真的對自己心中發生的事情有著敏銳的感知能力。他可以真正地投入進去,讓你感覺到他的感受。他就像是緊緊靠近火焰,像是親密接觸那些東西。我認為他是那種典型的探險者,什麼地方都會去看,即使人們會因此批評他。但我認為大多數人都是在慶祝他。所以,我覺得不同的人對生活有不同的視角,擁有不同的能力。我認為如果人們想要提高自己基線的多巴胺水平,重要的是要調節那些高峰和低谷。我不相信永遠都不應該有多巴胺的高峰,像是在一個精彩的婚禮派對上。我參加過一些婚禮,真的是一整晚都在派對,或者一些精彩的演唱會。其實我是一個大粉絲,這是一種我不太了解的音樂風格,但我一直都很喜歡那支樂隊James。你知道那支樂隊嗎?我們是James。哦,真的太好了。好吧,我可能會因為這樣而失去朋克的身份,但那是我見過的最好的現場演出,只是我見過的最好的現場演出。我知道根據音樂流派的不同,對於最佳現場演出的看法有不少不同。我只是。所以,這就像你參加過的最好派對一樣。我從中得到的能量提升可以持續兩到三天,而在那些演出中我並沒有消耗任何物質。
    它們發生得非常少,但當我已經持續兩三天的時候,我感覺自己變成了一個不同的人。這是一種神經化學狀態的顯著變化。而且我之後並不感到一種低谷。所以我想非常明確地說,有些事情像是慶祝活動、音樂會,它們似乎會給我們帶來這些神經化學物質的大幅激增,但它們不會讓我們感到精疲力竭。我對這些經歷很感興趣,因為當我回顧一些例子時,我有一些朋友在科技界和金融界都非常成功。他們賺了很多錢,而我總是擔心他們之後的情況。不可避免地,他們最終會感到沮喪,不知道自己想做什麼。因此我總是鼓勵他們繼續工作。事實上,科技和金融領域中最快樂的人是那些即使在致富之後依然持續工作的人。
    所以我看到的非常快樂的人,是那些能夠檢視自己自然能量、好奇心和動機水平的人。你知道,我們可以說多巴胺,但那只是一種其他許多東西的替代品。而且這是不完整的,對吧?還有其他化學物質參與其中,但為了便於討論,我們可以說多巴胺、兒茶酚胺和腎上腺素。你大致知道它們在穩定狀態下的能量水平。我認為我曾經得到過的最好的建議來自一位名叫鮑勃·奈特的神經學家,當時我還是研究生。他說,弄清楚在接下來的四到五年裡,你能夠穩定地工作多少,因為隨著你年齡的增長,這一點可能會改變,甚至可能不會下降。因此,舉例來說,我知道我一天可以穩定地工作12個小時。就是我,一週五到六天,每天12個小時,但我喜歡每週有一天的完全休息。我就是喜歡這樣。通常是星期日,我會做一些運動和其他事情。但如果我硬要每天工作15個小時,或每天12個小時,每週七天,我會崩潰。對於其他人來說,他們需要減少工作時間。
    現在,有些人會說,好的,但你有孩子嗎?什麼的。我不是說工作意味著什麼,它可以是事業,也可以是家庭,或者兩者兼而有之。但我並不是那種擁有無限能量的人,但我有很多能量。如果你能量較少,你可以試著獲得良好的睡眠,盡可能地吃得健康。你可能需要做更多事情來獲得更多能量,但必須接受自己那種基線狀態。我確實認識許多人,他們更平靜、更冷靜,所謂的「能量較少」。他們只是更有效地使用那種能量。他們正確地運用能量,沒有浪費。我認識一些人,他們可以不斷地滑動Instagram,談論Twitter上的動態,看三個播客,編程並做各種事情。我會感覺那樣的人還好。因此,我們必須知道自己的節奏,並且能夠在那之上偏離15%到20%。但如果超過那個極限,我們會陷入麻煩。
    我認為人們之所以對多巴胺感到好奇,很大程度上是因為他們最終想在生活中某個目標上變得更加高效或有效。可能是建立一個生意,可能是製作播客,等等。因此,根據您對多巴胺及其運作方式的了解,如果你要給我建議,讓我成為更好的企業家、播客製作者,或者其他,首先我從你那裡得到的就是關於在不同狀態之間轉換的想法,並且讓我的儲備在高多巴胺活動後能夠得到補充。我還應該考慮其他什麼?
    是的,我們可以以非常明確的方式來操作這一點。獲得足夠的睡眠,對於一些人來說,可能是六個小時;對於另一些人來說,可能是八個小時。我想打破這個神話,即使我的朋友馬特·沃克聽到這句話可能會對我感到不滿。不是每個人都需要八到九個小時的睡眠。好吧,我昨晚睡了六個小時。其實我昨晚是午夜上床睡覺的。哦,抱歉,我昨晚睡了六小時四十五分鐘。我午夜上床,醒來的時候是六點四十五分,但要獲得足夠的睡眠。如果你早上醒來,出於某些原因無法再睡,無法再次入睡或必須起床。如果你感覺不夠休息,我建議做10到20分鐘的非睡眠深度休息或瑜伽尼德拉(yoga nidra)程序。這些在YouTube上是零成本的。你可以搜尋NSDR我的名字。如果你想聽我進行的,則可以輸入NSDR,凱利·博伊斯(Kelly Boys)做的瑜伽尼德拉非常棒。她的聲音非常悅耳。如果你更喜歡女性的聲音,有一位名叫卡米尼·德賽(Kamini Desai)的女性也有很棒的瑜伽尼德拉。總之,這些都是YouTube上可獲得的零成本腳本。那是什麼呢?非睡眠深度休息,類似於瑜伽尼德拉。因為你今天做了一個。你今天在來的路上做了一個。好吧,這告訴我們這是什麼。它補充基底神經節中的多巴胺基線水平。為您準備行動,無論是心理還是身體行動。的確可以幫助抵消一些您可能沒有獲得但需要的睡眠。我們知道大腦在這種狀態中會進入一種擬似睡眠的狀態。而且還有一些證據表明,瑜伽尼德拉和類似的實踐可以改善學習的速度。好的,這就是它的好處。那是什麼?它涉及大多數人所稱的冥想,但與冥想不同。你躺下,可以坐著,但你躺下,閉上眼睛,進行長時間的呼氣。當我們呼氣時,實際上會減慢心率。我可以談論這是如何實現的。這是通過呼吸性竇性心律不齊,這是迷走神經與心臟跳動之間的關係。但不管怎麼說,當我們吸氣時,我們的心臟實際上會稍微加速跳動;而當我們呼氣時,它的跳動則會稍微減慢。
    這涉及大量的長時間呼氣呼吸。它包括一種身體掃描,您故意放鬆身體的不同部位。首先是腳,然後是腿,接下來是手。這是一種帶有長時間呼氣呼吸的身體掃描。而且它能帶您進入一種類似睡眠的狀態。您正處於睡眠和清醒之間。現在,NSDR(非睡眠深度休息)和瑜伽尼德拉的美妙之處在於開始時的一部分指導是要保持清醒。如果您不小心睡著了,也沒關係。只是請確保您設置了鬧鐘,以防您需要去工作或做其他事情。但透過保持清醒同時又非常放鬆,似乎神經系統能夠持續保持在類似睡眠的狀態,足以補充一些這些神經化學物質,使您為認知和身體活動做準備。現在,有十分鐘的NSDR,也有二十分鐘的NSDR,甚至還有一小時的瑜伽尼德拉。這取決於您有多少時間在需要起床之前。如果您前一晚睡得好,早上醒來後六到八小時,然後準備好出門,馬上就去。但如果您沒有,我非常推薦您進行一個十分鐘、二十分鐘或三十分鐘的NSDR練習。您會發現您會感覺更有精神,心理上和身體上都會更加充沛。這是令人驚訝的。我和馬特·沃克的實驗室正在準備進行一些研究,以確定到底發生了什麼。大腦真的進入了睡眠,還是完全是不同的東西?我們還不太確定。但無論如何,它肯定有效。我們不久將知道大腦中的具體機制,但是從現有的研究來看,這種多巴胺的再補充是非常明確的。所以您在那裡做什麼?您基本上是在為每天的活動填補儲備,好的?然後,我推薦補充水分,這對能量水平有深遠的影響。16到32盎司的水。人們辯論是喝塑料瓶裝水還是不喝。您是否需要淨化水等問題?您知道,這取決於預算、興趣和偏執程度。我喝過濾水,通常使用陶瓷或玻璃杯,但我偶爾也會從塑料水瓶中喝水。我不會對這種事情過於神經質,但如果您是這樣的,那也很好。我們所有人都可以更好地限制海洋中的塑料廢物。所以就這樣吧,保持水分。然後有些像我這樣的人非常適合在早晨獲得一些運動和陽光,最好是同時進行,但在喝咖啡因之前確實要獲得一些陽光和運動。有些人這樣做,有些人則不這樣做,好嗎?我也理解並完全支持那些早上只想喝咖啡或茶的人。沒有規則說您不能這樣做。但對我來說,我的做法是起床,使用洗手間(如果您需要補水的話),然後讓明亮的光線進入您的眼睛,最好是從早晨的陽光獲得。為什麼?嗯,這裡有一整套關於晝夜生物學的故事可以告訴您,但我之前已經說過很多次了。簡而言之,從早晨的陽光中獲得明亮的光線,即使透過雲層,也是可以顯著增加您大腦和身體中的皮質醇釋放。這是良好、健康的皮質醇增加,與清醒的過渡有關。所以我們知道,早晨的明亮光線,特別是來自陽光的光線,提高了白天的情緒、專注力和警覺性,並且會改善您當晚的睡眠。

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  • 670: $1000/mo Helping People Plan Trips: Inside the Travel Advising Side Hustle

    AI transcript
    0:00:04 A thousand bucks a month helping people plan epic trips.
    0:00:06 What’s up, what’s up, Nick Loper here.
    0:00:07 Welcome to the Science Hustle Show
    0:00:10 because your nine to five may make you a living,
    0:00:12 but your five to nine makes you alive.
    0:00:14 Another thing that certainly makes you alive
    0:00:16 is travel and adventure and exploring
    0:00:17 and experiencing new places.
    0:00:21 And today I wanna share how you can actually turn
    0:00:25 your interest in travel into an extra income stream.
    0:00:27 Today’s guest has done just that
    0:00:29 on top of some other online businesses
    0:00:33 from unlistedtravel.com and maketravelyourjob.com.
    0:00:36 After a nine year gap, Bailey Richard,
    0:00:38 welcome back to the Science Hustle Show.
    0:00:40 Thanks so much for having me back, Nick.
    0:00:41 It’s a pleasure to be here again.
    0:00:43 I can’t believe it’s been that long.
    0:00:43 I know.
    0:00:45 Of course, link up Bailey’s original episode.
    0:00:47 We’re talking about building an online course business
    0:00:49 at that point, but stick around in this one
    0:00:52 to learn how travel advisors make money,
    0:00:55 how to set yourself up for success in this field,
    0:00:56 maybe some scams to avoid,
    0:00:59 and creative ways to market your services,
    0:01:01 to go out there and get some business.
    0:01:03 And I wanna start with the,
    0:01:04 you know, what is possible?
    0:01:06 What one trip can make you?
    0:01:06 Because you mentioned,
    0:01:11 I recently planned a trip for two people going to London
    0:01:14 and between advisor fees and commissions,
    0:01:14 we’ll get into all this.
    0:01:19 It was over $600 to you for something that I take,
    0:01:20 you enjoy doing anyways.
    0:01:21 Absolutely.
    0:01:24 This is a particular trip I planned for two individuals,
    0:01:26 man and wife, traveling six days,
    0:01:29 five nights to London on a romantic getaway.
    0:01:32 So to start off, we have the planning fee.
    0:01:34 So the planning fee is an upfront fee
    0:01:37 that travel advisors will charge their clients
    0:01:40 to cover the cost of planning their epic itinerary.
    0:01:43 Some travel advisors choose not to charge a planning fee
    0:01:44 under some circumstances.
    0:01:47 Maybe you’re serving your friends or your family,
    0:01:49 but it’s definitely becoming more common
    0:01:51 to charge your clients a planning fee.
    0:01:53 Now, this isn’t something outrageous.
    0:01:55 It could be $50 a day.
    0:01:57 It could be $20 a day of travel,
    0:02:00 but it could also be a fixed fee,
    0:02:03 you know, maybe $100 a week of travel
    0:02:05 for up to two people, three people.
    0:02:08 You are the one that gets to determine your planning fee,
    0:02:10 but that’s approximately what we’re looking at.
    0:02:13 So for this particular trip, it was $100.
    0:02:16 Now, this was a little bit earlier on
    0:02:17 in my travel advising journey.
    0:02:19 So today I probably would have charged
    0:02:23 maybe even $200 for this particular trip,
    0:02:25 but we’re going off the numbers that we used here.
    0:02:28 So we’ve got a $100 planning fee upfront.
    0:02:31 This is a non-refundable upfront planning fee
    0:02:34 from the client to you.
    0:02:34 Got it.
    0:02:37 So then after the client pays the planning fee,
    0:02:39 you are going to get started
    0:02:41 planning their epic itinerary.
    0:02:43 There’s going to be some back and forth
    0:02:45 between you and the client to make it perfect.
    0:02:46 But after they’ve approved it,
    0:02:50 you’re going to book all of the elements of their trip.
    0:02:52 So you’re going to book their hotel,
    0:02:53 their tours,
    0:02:55 their rental car,
    0:02:56 their airport transfers,
    0:02:58 all of the things that make somebody’s trip
    0:03:00 actually happen.
    0:03:02 And how you get paid through that
    0:03:03 is by commissions.
    0:03:05 The travel vendor or supplier,
    0:03:06 like the hotel,
    0:03:07 for example,
    0:03:09 is going to pay you a commission.
    0:03:11 So for example,
    0:03:13 in this case study we’re talking about,
    0:03:17 I booked the Fleming’s Mayfair Hotel in central London,
    0:03:22 and the commission on this particular booking was 15%.
    0:03:24 Now this is a little bit higher than average
    0:03:27 because this particular hotel is a preferred partner
    0:03:29 with my host agency.
    0:03:30 Don’t worry,
    0:03:32 we’re going to get into all of that,
    0:03:36 but you can expect anywhere between 8% to 12%
    0:03:39 typically on a regular hotel commission.
    0:03:41 But if you are going to book with some of these
    0:03:43 preferred hotels where your host agency
    0:03:46 might have a special connection or relationship,
    0:03:49 you can get commissions that are even higher.
    0:03:49 Got it.
    0:03:50 In fact,
    0:03:53 I have seen a few hotels within my host agency
    0:03:55 have up to 20% commission,
    0:03:57 which is pretty crazy.
    0:03:57 Yeah.
    0:03:58 Because on a trip,
    0:04:01 the hotel is usually what you spend the most on,
    0:04:03 it’s important to make sure you’re looking
    0:04:04 at that commission number.
    0:04:06 So in this particular case,
    0:04:08 the commission value
    0:04:11 or the total amount that the client paid for the hotel
    0:04:13 for which you can earn commission
    0:04:16 was $2,442.
    0:04:21 So 15% of that is $366.
    0:04:22 Now,
    0:04:26 your host agency is going to take a small portion of that.
    0:04:29 How much you earn is dependent upon your relationship
    0:04:31 with your host agency.
    0:04:33 It might be a 70-30 split,
    0:04:34 80-20,
    0:04:35 or 90-10.
    0:04:37 If you’re starting out as a travel advisor,
    0:04:39 70-30 is pretty common,
    0:04:42 and that’s what I was earning at this point.
    0:04:45 Meaning they would give you 70% of the 360.
    0:04:46 Exactly.
    0:04:47 So you would be earning,
    0:04:48 as I did in this case,
    0:04:52 70% of the 15%.
    0:04:53 So in this case,
    0:04:55 that was $256.
    0:04:55 Okay.
    0:04:58 We already have a $100 planning fee
    0:05:00 and $256.
    0:05:05 So that’s $356 already on this trip.
    0:05:06 And so far,
    0:05:08 the only thing I’ve booked for them
    0:05:09 is the hotel.
    0:05:09 Right.
    0:05:11 Now for this particular trip,
    0:05:14 I offered them a private airport transfer.
    0:05:16 That wasn’t something they were interested in.
    0:05:17 They’re pretty frequent travelers.
    0:05:19 They wanted to use the tube,
    0:05:20 the Gatwick Express,
    0:05:22 or the Heathrow Express,
    0:05:22 whichever one it was,
    0:05:24 and things like that.
    0:05:25 they didn’t need a rental car.
    0:05:26 But I’m mentioning these things
    0:05:28 because you can get commissions
    0:05:29 on these as well.
    0:05:31 Your job as the travel advisor
    0:05:32 is to be thinking about
    0:05:34 all of the different elements
    0:05:35 that someone is going to need
    0:05:36 on their trip
    0:05:37 to make it actually happen
    0:05:39 and also to make it enjoyable.
    0:05:40 It doesn’t mean that the client
    0:05:41 is going to take everything
    0:05:42 that you propose.
    0:05:43 That’s why you’ll go back and forth
    0:05:45 with them on the itinerary
    0:05:46 to see what they want,
    0:05:47 what their budget is.
    0:05:48 But at the end of the day,
    0:05:50 you can be earning commissions
    0:05:51 on all these different things.
    0:05:54 Okay, so I could set up shop today
    0:05:56 and call myself a travel advisor
    0:05:58 and help book these itineraries
    0:06:00 and do the travel planning part
    0:06:01 for this upfront free.
    0:06:03 But if I want to get commissions,
    0:06:04 then I have to go through
    0:06:05 some registration.
    0:06:06 I got to find this host agency.
    0:06:09 And this is in lieu of becoming
    0:06:11 a certified travel agent,
    0:06:13 you know, going through hoops
    0:06:14 and requirements like to do that.
    0:06:15 Myself, this is kind of like
    0:06:18 an easier barrier to get into
    0:06:19 earning those types of commissions?
    0:06:20 Basically, yes.
    0:06:21 So essentially,
    0:06:23 in order to book on behalf
    0:06:25 of a client and get paid
    0:06:25 your commissions,
    0:06:26 you’re going to need something
    0:06:28 called an accreditation number.
    0:06:30 The most famous or most common
    0:06:31 is something called IATA,
    0:06:33 I-A-T-A.
    0:06:34 I think it stands for
    0:06:36 International Air Transport Association.
    0:06:38 But the reality is
    0:06:39 this particular number
    0:06:40 is something that you are going
    0:06:42 to use at time of booking
    0:06:44 to let the vendor,
    0:06:45 like the hotel,
    0:06:47 know that you’re a travel advisor
    0:06:48 or travel agent,
    0:06:49 we use those terms interchangeably,
    0:06:50 and you’re booking
    0:06:51 on behalf of a client.
    0:06:54 And this particular accreditation number
    0:06:56 is linked to the organization
    0:06:58 that’s going to get the commission.
    0:07:00 So you have two routes here.
    0:07:01 You can either choose
    0:07:03 to become an independent agent
    0:07:05 and go through the entire process
    0:07:08 yourself of becoming accredited,
    0:07:10 which is going to take many months
    0:07:12 and quite a significant amount of money.
    0:07:14 And it’s a very long process.
    0:07:16 Or you can do something else,
    0:07:17 which is what I recommend
    0:07:18 to all of my students and friends,
    0:07:20 which is that you should join
    0:07:21 a host agency.
    0:07:23 So a host agency is a company,
    0:07:24 a travel agency,
    0:07:26 that’s already gone through
    0:07:27 the time and effort
    0:07:28 and paid the fees
    0:07:29 to become accredited.
    0:07:31 They have one accreditation number,
    0:07:33 and they share that accreditation number
    0:07:35 with all of the travel advisors
    0:07:37 that come to work for them
    0:07:39 as 1099 and contractors.
    0:07:41 Essentially, you’ll be able to use
    0:07:42 their accreditation number
    0:07:43 when booking.
    0:07:44 When they go out
    0:07:45 and form the relationships
    0:07:47 with all of the hotels
    0:07:48 and tour providers
    0:07:49 and car rental services
    0:07:50 and all of the stuff.
    0:07:51 So you don’t have to do that.
    0:07:52 And in exchange,
    0:07:54 they take that 30% fee
    0:07:55 of the commissions.
    0:07:55 Absolutely.
    0:07:57 So the host agencies
    0:07:59 do so much work
    0:08:00 for the travel advisors up front.
    0:08:01 As you mentioned,
    0:08:02 forming those relationships
    0:08:04 is a huge part of it.
    0:08:05 But there’s also things like
    0:08:06 bringing the travel advisors
    0:08:08 together in a community,
    0:08:09 hosting trainings
    0:08:11 about how to run your business,
    0:08:12 how to do bookings,
    0:08:14 but also about suppliers
    0:08:14 or destinations.
    0:08:16 They offer support
    0:08:18 and they also chase down
    0:08:18 your commissions.
    0:08:20 So it’s a really great system
    0:08:21 because you are not going
    0:08:22 to be out there
    0:08:22 sending invoices
    0:08:23 and trying to chase down
    0:08:24 commissions from all
    0:08:26 of these different suppliers.
    0:08:27 The host agency
    0:08:28 is going to do that for you.
    0:08:29 And then when it comes,
    0:08:30 you know, time for taxes,
    0:08:31 it’s super easy
    0:08:33 because you’re just getting paid
    0:08:34 from one place.
    0:08:34 Got it.
    0:08:35 Got it.
    0:08:35 Okay.
    0:08:36 Any host agencies
    0:08:37 that you like
    0:08:38 or where should people
    0:08:39 begin their search here?
    0:08:41 Hostagencyreviews.com
    0:08:43 is a fantastic website.
    0:08:43 I know.
    0:08:44 It’s such a great name.
    0:08:46 It’s such a great website
    0:08:47 to learn more
    0:08:48 about the different
    0:08:49 host agencies available.
    0:08:51 The host agency
    0:08:52 I belong to
    0:08:53 is called Fora.
    0:08:54 And I think
    0:08:56 they’re a great host agency,
    0:08:57 especially for beginners,
    0:08:58 but that doesn’t mean
    0:08:59 that’s the only option.
    0:09:01 There are many things
    0:09:02 you need to consider
    0:09:03 when choosing
    0:09:04 your host agency.
    0:09:05 For example,
    0:09:06 what is that
    0:09:07 initial commission split?
    0:09:08 Are you comfortable
    0:09:10 with a 70-30 to start
    0:09:11 or do you need
    0:09:12 something higher?
    0:09:13 What type of support
    0:09:15 does the host agency
    0:09:16 offer
    0:09:17 in terms of
    0:09:18 a community trainings,
    0:09:19 but also tech?
    0:09:20 Of course,
    0:09:21 you’re running a business here,
    0:09:22 so there’s going to be
    0:09:23 some tech involved.
    0:09:24 Your host agency
    0:09:25 may provide
    0:09:26 some tools for you.
    0:09:28 They also may not.
    0:09:28 You might have to get
    0:09:29 those separately.
    0:09:30 So there are many
    0:09:31 different questions
    0:09:31 you’ll need to ask
    0:09:32 before you choose
    0:09:33 the right one
    0:09:33 for you.
    0:09:34 And I’m on
    0:09:36 ForaTravel.com.
    0:09:36 It looks like
    0:09:38 it’s $300 a year
    0:09:40 to request to join
    0:09:41 to apply
    0:09:44 under their host agency
    0:09:45 as a travel advisor.
    0:09:47 Is that fairly typical
    0:09:48 where they’re
    0:09:49 charging an upfront fee
    0:09:50 to be part of their network?
    0:09:51 Yes,
    0:09:52 that’s a membership fee.
    0:09:53 So to apply
    0:09:54 is free.
    0:09:55 When you are
    0:09:56 accepted
    0:09:57 or invited
    0:09:57 to come
    0:09:58 and join them
    0:09:59 as a travel advisor,
    0:10:00 then there is
    0:10:01 that $300
    0:10:02 is annual,
    0:10:03 but you could also
    0:10:03 pay monthly.
    0:10:04 So there’s a monthly
    0:10:05 or annual membership fee.
    0:10:07 And that’s not just
    0:10:07 with Fora.
    0:10:08 That’s pretty much
    0:10:09 with most
    0:10:10 or any host agency.
    0:10:10 There’s going to be
    0:10:11 that upfront fee
    0:10:12 to take care
    0:10:12 of the services
    0:10:13 they provide for you
    0:10:15 in addition to
    0:10:15 the commissions
    0:10:17 as we previously discussed.
    0:10:18 There’s somewhat common
    0:10:19 in the East Side Hustle
    0:10:20 they should Facebook group.
    0:10:22 It’s almost a network
    0:10:23 marketing pitch
    0:10:24 or a multi-level
    0:10:24 marketing pitch.
    0:10:24 Like,
    0:10:26 I book people’s travel
    0:10:27 from home
    0:10:28 and make
    0:10:28 this amount
    0:10:29 of commissions.
    0:10:29 Like,
    0:10:30 is there a network
    0:10:31 marketing component
    0:10:32 to this
    0:10:32 or is this
    0:10:34 something completely separate?
    0:10:36 With some host agencies,
    0:10:37 there is.
    0:10:38 In fact,
    0:10:39 I recommend
    0:10:39 that people
    0:10:40 stay away
    0:10:41 from those host agencies.
    0:10:43 Fora does not have
    0:10:44 a network marketing
    0:10:45 angle to it.
    0:10:46 They do have
    0:10:46 a sort of
    0:10:47 affiliate program
    0:10:48 where you can get
    0:10:49 a little bit
    0:10:49 off of your
    0:10:50 membership fee
    0:10:51 every year
    0:10:51 if you recommend
    0:10:52 a friend,
    0:10:53 but there is
    0:10:54 no requirement
    0:10:55 to bring in
    0:10:57 other individuals.
    0:10:58 There are
    0:10:58 some other
    0:10:59 host agencies
    0:11:00 that I shall
    0:11:00 not mention
    0:11:02 that do have
    0:11:02 these sort of
    0:11:03 requirements
    0:11:04 or a very hefty
    0:11:06 MLM-type arm.
    0:11:07 And you make
    0:11:07 a percentage
    0:11:08 of, you know,
    0:11:09 your referrals,
    0:11:10 bookings,
    0:11:10 and a percentage,
    0:11:10 you know,
    0:11:11 just on down.
    0:11:12 That’s one more
    0:11:13 thing you need
    0:11:13 to think about
    0:11:14 when joining
    0:11:15 the host agency.
    0:11:16 Is the focus
    0:11:17 really on supporting
    0:11:18 the travel advisors
    0:11:19 in their quest
    0:11:20 to serve their clients?
    0:11:21 I believe
    0:11:22 at Fora they are.
    0:11:23 Or is it
    0:11:24 more focused
    0:11:25 on just bringing
    0:11:26 more people in?
    0:11:27 So, yeah,
    0:11:28 there are definitely
    0:11:28 some host agencies
    0:11:29 out there like that,
    0:11:30 but they’re not
    0:11:31 all like that.
    0:11:32 Definitely not.
    0:11:32 Okay.
    0:11:33 So this is helpful
    0:11:34 to know host agency,
    0:11:35 love of travel,
    0:11:37 and now let’s talk
    0:11:38 about the client
    0:11:39 getting side.
    0:11:40 I imagine everybody
    0:11:40 has somebody
    0:11:41 in their network
    0:11:42 who’s like the
    0:11:43 travel person,
    0:11:44 the go-to person
    0:11:45 who, you know,
    0:11:45 knows about,
    0:11:46 you know,
    0:11:47 trips and hacks
    0:11:47 and travel planning.
    0:11:48 Like my sister-in-law
    0:11:49 is like the go-to
    0:11:50 Disney person
    0:11:51 in our house,
    0:11:52 and there’s got
    0:11:53 to be other people
    0:11:54 like that in your
    0:11:54 own network,
    0:11:55 or maybe that’s
    0:11:55 you to your own
    0:11:56 network.
    0:11:56 It’s like,
    0:11:56 well,
    0:11:57 start out with
    0:11:58 friends and family.
    0:11:59 I imagine this kind
    0:12:00 of starts with
    0:12:01 organizing perhaps
    0:12:02 family trips
    0:12:03 and earning a
    0:12:04 little bit of
    0:12:05 referral commissions
    0:12:06 on that or
    0:12:07 planning fees on
    0:12:07 that.
    0:12:08 What happens after
    0:12:09 that, like to get
    0:12:10 the client base
    0:12:11 spinning here?
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    0:14:38 You’re absolutely
    0:14:38 right.
    0:14:39 Pretty much everybody
    0:14:40 starts off either
    0:14:41 booking a trip for
    0:14:42 themselves or for
    0:14:42 their family and
    0:14:43 friends and I think
    0:14:44 that’s a great
    0:14:45 stepping stone because
    0:14:46 that’s how you really
    0:14:46 learn.
    0:14:47 Even if you’re
    0:14:48 someone like me who
    0:14:49 has decades of
    0:14:50 actual travel experience,
    0:14:51 doing it for other
    0:14:52 people and serving
    0:14:54 clients in that way is
    0:14:54 a little bit of a
    0:14:55 different ballgame.
    0:14:56 But once you have
    0:14:58 done that, there are
    0:14:58 many different ways.
    0:14:59 So the first way I
    0:15:00 always recommend to
    0:15:01 people is by creating
    0:15:03 some sort of referral
    0:15:03 incentive.
    0:15:05 So as I mentioned
    0:15:06 earlier, there are
    0:15:08 these planning fees and
    0:15:09 you can waive those
    0:15:10 planning fees under
    0:15:11 certain circumstances
    0:15:12 for any client.
    0:15:13 So for example, you
    0:15:14 could say to someone
    0:15:16 who was a successful
    0:15:17 client that might be
    0:15:18 interested in booking
    0:15:19 with you again, hey,
    0:15:21 you know, if you refer
    0:15:22 another person to me who
    0:15:23 ends up successfully
    0:15:25 booking a trip, I’ll
    0:15:26 waive your planning fee
    0:15:28 for your next trip.
    0:15:30 Yes, for that
    0:15:31 particular client who’s
    0:15:32 going to book with you
    0:15:33 a second time, you are
    0:15:34 losing a little bit of
    0:15:36 that planning fee, but
    0:15:37 in the long run, you’re
    0:15:38 going to gain another
    0:15:39 client, which could
    0:15:40 result in many trips
    0:15:41 down the road, you
    0:15:42 know, if they end up
    0:15:43 really liking working
    0:15:43 with you.
    0:15:44 So that’s the first
    0:15:44 thing.
    0:15:45 Got it.
    0:15:46 Yeah, it seems like you
    0:15:47 almost have to target a
    0:15:49 higher end clientele or
    0:15:51 a more complex trip than
    0:15:52 somebody going to Vegas
    0:15:54 for the weekend, where
    0:15:56 it’s just, I just go, you
    0:15:56 know, book to the hotel
    0:15:58 directly or go on
    0:15:58 Expedia or whatever.
    0:16:00 The DIY part of travel
    0:16:01 over the last 20 years
    0:16:03 has become easier in one
    0:16:03 sense and like
    0:16:04 overwhelming with choice
    0:16:06 on the other sense, but
    0:16:07 there’s the, there’s a
    0:16:08 sweet spot for, you
    0:16:09 know, helping somebody
    0:16:10 with a complex itinerary
    0:16:11 or it’s got to be almost
    0:16:12 a higher end travel
    0:16:13 experience.
    0:16:14 That’s a really great
    0:16:14 point.
    0:16:15 I think that there’s a
    0:16:16 couple of ways to look
    0:16:16 at that.
    0:16:17 So I do think that there
    0:16:18 are lots of travel
    0:16:19 advisors who choose to
    0:16:20 focus on luxury travel
    0:16:22 because ultimately if a
    0:16:23 client spends more on a
    0:16:24 trip, you’re going to
    0:16:25 make more commission, but
    0:16:26 that’s not everyone.
    0:16:27 There are plenty of
    0:16:28 people who are just
    0:16:29 serving their, you
    0:16:30 know, friends and
    0:16:31 family that don’t
    0:16:33 necessarily have $25,000
    0:16:35 per trip budgets, but
    0:16:36 the reason they might
    0:16:37 enjoy working with a
    0:16:39 travel advisor is
    0:16:40 because they don’t
    0:16:40 know anything about
    0:16:41 travel.
    0:16:43 They are unfamiliar with
    0:16:44 all of the DIY options.
    0:16:45 Like you said, they’re a
    0:16:46 little overwhelmed.
    0:16:47 They want someone who’s
    0:16:47 an expert.
    0:16:49 As you said, there might
    0:16:50 be just a go-to travel
    0:16:51 person.
    0:16:52 I’m that person in my
    0:16:53 family and friends group.
    0:16:54 People are constantly
    0:16:55 messaging me.
    0:16:56 Hey, you know, do you
    0:16:57 have any recommendations
    0:16:57 about this?
    0:16:58 I know you went to
    0:16:59 that country a couple
    0:16:59 years ago.
    0:17:00 What do you think?
    0:17:00 Yeah.
    0:17:02 And so there is this
    0:17:04 desire amongst people to
    0:17:06 hire people they trust for
    0:17:07 something like this.
    0:17:08 And so I just want to
    0:17:09 reassure people that it
    0:17:10 doesn’t mean that if you
    0:17:12 don’t know a very wealthy
    0:17:13 CEO to be your client that
    0:17:14 you can’t do this or be
    0:17:15 successful because I
    0:17:17 certainly, you know,
    0:17:17 didn’t start out that
    0:17:19 way and all my clients are
    0:17:20 not wealthy CEOs.
    0:17:20 Yeah.
    0:17:21 Well, that’s another angle
    0:17:23 is like business, maybe not
    0:17:24 business travel and it’s
    0:17:25 probably like built in
    0:17:26 processes for that, but
    0:17:29 some sort of, you know,
    0:17:30 incentive trips for
    0:17:30 companies.
    0:17:31 Like when I was working
    0:17:32 corporate, like that was
    0:17:33 a big part of it.
    0:17:34 Like how do we incentivize
    0:17:35 these people and organize
    0:17:36 these big trips that there
    0:17:37 was a whole agency involved
    0:17:38 with that, but like maybe
    0:17:39 for smaller companies,
    0:17:41 there’s a little niche or
    0:17:42 angle or to specialize in
    0:17:44 a specific location.
    0:17:45 Like I’m the go-to expert
    0:17:47 on Vietnam or whatever it
    0:17:47 may be.
    0:17:48 Absolutely.
    0:17:50 I mean, getting involved
    0:17:51 with your local business
    0:17:52 community group, chamber
    0:17:53 of commerce, you’re getting
    0:17:54 involved there and kind of
    0:17:55 letting local businesses
    0:17:56 know that this is a
    0:17:57 service you offer because
    0:17:59 surely that office down
    0:18:00 the road is not going to
    0:18:01 have an in-house full-time
    0:18:03 employee, you know, doing
    0:18:04 their, you know, travel for
    0:18:05 their organization, but
    0:18:06 they might be looking to
    0:18:08 do a company retreat for
    0:18:09 20 people and you would be
    0:18:10 able to help with that.
    0:18:12 That sounds perfect.
    0:18:13 Yeah, there’s a lot of
    0:18:14 different directions that
    0:18:15 you can go with here.
    0:18:16 So what else, as you’re
    0:18:16 opening up your marketing
    0:18:18 playbook, we’ve got the
    0:18:18 word of mouth, we’ve got
    0:18:19 the referral incentive.
    0:18:20 Hey, I’ll waive your
    0:18:21 planning fee on your next
    0:18:23 trip if you send me a new
    0:18:24 client and hopefully that
    0:18:25 starts to tap into your
    0:18:26 network’s network a little
    0:18:26 bit.
    0:18:27 What else have you found
    0:18:27 effective here?
    0:18:28 Events.
    0:18:30 So both going to and
    0:18:31 hosting your own.
    0:18:33 So I know of someone who
    0:18:35 specializes in planning
    0:18:36 honeymoons and romantic
    0:18:37 trips all over the world
    0:18:39 and she loves to work with
    0:18:42 newlyweds and brides and
    0:18:43 so she will actually go to
    0:18:45 these sort of bridal, you
    0:18:46 know, they have these
    0:18:47 bridal vendor shows where
    0:18:48 the brides are coming to
    0:18:50 learn about cake and other
    0:18:51 sorts of incredible things.
    0:18:53 but she doesn’t even set
    0:18:54 up a vendor booth herself.
    0:18:55 Certainly that’s an option
    0:18:57 but, you know, that’s
    0:18:57 costly.
    0:18:59 So she literally just goes
    0:19:01 and mingles with all of
    0:19:02 these brides and talks to
    0:19:03 them and just tells them
    0:19:04 the truth that, you know,
    0:19:05 I plan incredible
    0:19:07 honeymoons and romantic
    0:19:07 trips.
    0:19:09 So going to places where
    0:19:10 your ideal client, if you
    0:19:11 really have a focus niche,
    0:19:12 can help.
    0:19:14 But also hosting your own
    0:19:15 sort of events on a much
    0:19:16 smaller scale.
    0:19:17 You don’t have to host a
    0:19:18 gigantic conference or
    0:19:18 convention.
    0:19:19 but you could host, for
    0:19:22 example, a local, I don’t
    0:19:22 know, let’s pick a country,
    0:19:23 Japan.
    0:19:24 You could host a local
    0:19:26 Japanese themed evening
    0:19:28 where you serve foods
    0:19:30 traditional to Japan and
    0:19:31 you could, as the travel
    0:19:32 advisor and host, give a
    0:19:34 presentation on a few
    0:19:35 interesting facts about the
    0:19:37 country, highlight some
    0:19:38 places people might want to
    0:19:40 go, highlight a couple of
    0:19:41 the interesting resorts or
    0:19:43 hotels that you could book
    0:19:44 for them and the perks you
    0:19:45 could get them as a travel
    0:19:46 advisor, and of course,
    0:19:47 pass out your, you know,
    0:19:49 information business cards
    0:19:50 at the end, something like
    0:19:50 that.
    0:19:52 Okay, so I’m hearing the
    0:19:53 opportunity to focus on
    0:19:55 either a location-specific
    0:19:56 niche, like the Japan
    0:19:57 specialist, the Disneyland
    0:19:59 specialist, or the theme
    0:20:00 specific.
    0:20:01 Oh, I specialize in booking
    0:20:02 epic honeymoons to
    0:20:03 wherever you want to go.
    0:20:05 That’s a cool angle.
    0:20:06 I love the approach of
    0:20:07 going, you know, always
    0:20:08 that’s the marketing
    0:20:09 one-on-one question.
    0:20:10 Where are my target
    0:20:11 customers already hanging
    0:20:11 out?
    0:20:12 Well, these brides who are
    0:20:13 about to, you know, plan
    0:20:14 their wedding and
    0:20:14 eventually the honeymoon
    0:20:16 are hanging out at these,
    0:20:17 you know, bridal vendor
    0:20:18 shows, you know, they’re
    0:20:19 looking for photographers
    0:20:20 and caterers and DJs and
    0:20:21 venues.
    0:20:22 It’s like, okay, here’s a
    0:20:24 natural next step to get in
    0:20:25 front of those customers.
    0:20:26 I love that strategy.
    0:20:28 And then this, you know,
    0:20:30 themed dinner or location
    0:20:31 specific event.
    0:20:32 We see people do this
    0:20:33 online.
    0:20:33 We see people do this
    0:20:34 offline.
    0:20:35 The online strategy would
    0:20:36 be the, you know,
    0:20:38 partner workshop type of
    0:20:40 person where if you, you
    0:20:43 try to find some, some
    0:20:44 organization that already
    0:20:46 is catering to people who
    0:20:47 might be interested in
    0:20:48 traveling to Japan or
    0:20:48 something.
    0:20:49 I don’t know what
    0:20:50 organization that might be
    0:20:52 off the top of my head, but
    0:20:53 offer to host that
    0:20:53 workshop.
    0:20:55 Maybe it’s that hour long
    0:20:56 webinar presentation or
    0:20:57 maybe it’s that in-person
    0:20:59 dinner with the sushi and
    0:21:00 sake sampling or whatever it
    0:21:01 is.
    0:21:03 And you’ve cut through the
    0:21:05 clutter and now you’re the
    0:21:07 go-to expert on that topic
    0:21:08 and whether they end up
    0:21:10 hiring you or not, you’ve
    0:21:11 kind of jumped the line and
    0:21:12 say like, well, if we want
    0:21:13 to do this trip and you’ve
    0:21:15 got us all excited about
    0:21:17 it, like there’s a natural
    0:21:17 person that they’re going
    0:21:19 to call instead of going
    0:21:20 back to Google and looking
    0:21:22 for other travel advisors
    0:21:23 to help them out.
    0:21:25 And, you know, you might
    0:21:26 be thinking, well, somebody
    0:21:27 who’s going to be at this,
    0:21:28 you know, Japanese themed
    0:21:30 evening is maybe only
    0:21:31 considering planning a trip
    0:21:32 for themselves or their
    0:21:34 family, but that’s not
    0:21:34 necessarily true.
    0:21:36 When you plant that seed of
    0:21:37 excitement, you might find
    0:21:38 that that person you were
    0:21:40 talking to is in a book
    0:21:41 club and they just finished
    0:21:42 a book that was all
    0:21:44 about Ireland, maybe, or
    0:21:45 Scotland, they were reading
    0:21:46 about Outlander or
    0:21:46 something, right?
    0:21:47 And so now they want to
    0:21:49 plan an entire trip for
    0:21:50 the book club to go.
    0:21:51 Naturally, you’re the
    0:21:52 person that they’re going
    0:21:53 to come to and talk to
    0:21:54 about that, right?
    0:21:56 So you never know, you
    0:21:56 know, where these things
    0:21:57 are going to lead to.
    0:21:58 But one thing I also want
    0:21:59 to mention, you said that
    0:22:01 as far as picking a niche
    0:22:02 that you could do, you
    0:22:03 know, the location-based
    0:22:04 or you could do, you
    0:22:05 know, the activity-based.
    0:22:06 There are other very
    0:22:07 popular types of niches
    0:22:08 as well.
    0:22:09 I know some people that
    0:22:11 specialize in only cruises.
    0:22:13 I personally don’t really
    0:22:13 do cruises.
    0:22:15 I might add a river cruise
    0:22:16 or something to somebody’s
    0:22:16 expedition.
    0:22:18 But if somebody wants to,
    0:22:19 for example, just take,
    0:22:20 you know, a weekend-long,
    0:22:21 you know, princess cruise
    0:22:22 or Norwegian cruise, that’s
    0:22:24 not really my specialty
    0:22:26 because there is so much
    0:22:27 to learn about cruises.
    0:22:28 I mean, really, it is an
    0:22:29 entire market in and of
    0:22:30 itself.
    0:22:31 And so going to somebody
    0:22:32 who really knows everything
    0:22:34 about cruises, which type of
    0:22:35 ship you should take and
    0:22:36 what the different routes are
    0:22:37 and what the best pricing
    0:22:39 is, you know, we were
    0:22:40 talking earlier about why
    0:22:41 you’d want to hire a travel
    0:22:41 advisor.
    0:22:43 I don’t really go cruising
    0:22:44 ever.
    0:22:46 And so that’s something that I,
    0:22:47 you know, would want to talk
    0:22:48 to an expert about as well.
    0:22:49 Yeah, there’s a lot of
    0:22:49 pressure.
    0:22:50 If this is going to be a
    0:22:52 once-in-a-lifetime trip,
    0:22:53 and for a lot of people I’ve
    0:22:54 been saving for years to
    0:22:55 make this happen, I don’t
    0:22:56 want to screw it up.
    0:22:57 Like, I want to make sure it
    0:22:59 is done right and it’s
    0:23:00 absolutely worth it to hire
    0:23:02 the expert for the planning
    0:23:03 fee and make sure you pick
    0:23:04 the hotel in the right
    0:23:05 location from somebody who’s
    0:23:06 been there, done that,
    0:23:06 knows the area.
    0:23:08 it’s a long way to go
    0:23:08 depending on where you’re
    0:23:10 going to not have a great
    0:23:11 experience.
    0:23:12 And so if you could spend a
    0:23:13 little bit more up front, I
    0:23:14 think it makes a lot of sense
    0:23:15 on the client side.
    0:23:17 And to come to think of it, I
    0:23:18 feel like I’ve seen these
    0:23:20 flyers at the library for, you
    0:23:22 know, come listen to our talk
    0:23:25 about exploring, you know, the
    0:23:27 architecture of ancient Egypt
    0:23:27 or something.
    0:23:29 And I got to imagine it’s
    0:23:31 probably a travel advisor who’s
    0:23:31 putting that on.
    0:23:33 We had a guy who was doing
    0:23:35 a tutoring business and it
    0:23:36 was like workshops, you know,
    0:23:38 hosted at the local coffee
    0:23:39 shop or the library.
    0:23:40 Bonus points if you can have
    0:23:42 them promoted to their
    0:23:43 audience, their email list.
    0:23:44 Absolutely.
    0:23:45 You know, here’s the seven
    0:23:46 things you need to know about
    0:23:48 the new ACT changes for your
    0:23:50 high school student and totally
    0:23:51 free to attend.
    0:23:52 But by the way, if you need
    0:23:54 tutoring services, I’m your
    0:23:55 guy.
    0:23:56 It’s a very similar strategy
    0:23:57 here.
    0:23:58 Absolutely.
    0:23:59 And, you know, it’s funny that
    0:24:00 you mentioned the library and
    0:24:02 those info sessions because
    0:24:03 one other strategy that I’ve
    0:24:05 seen people do is it doesn’t
    0:24:06 even necessarily have to be
    0:24:07 location specific.
    0:24:09 It could just be focused on
    0:24:09 how to travel.
    0:24:11 You’d be amazed at how many
    0:24:13 people simply are not as
    0:24:14 familiar with the world of
    0:24:16 passports and visas and what
    0:24:18 is a WHO vaccination card and
    0:24:19 all of these different
    0:24:19 things.
    0:24:21 I have heard of people going
    0:24:23 to different countries.
    0:24:24 Let’s say Vietnam, I think.
    0:24:26 You have to apply many months
    0:24:28 in advance to get your visa.
    0:24:29 It’s not like just showing up
    0:24:30 in London where you can say,
    0:24:31 oh, I’m from the USA.
    0:24:32 I’m here for a week.
    0:24:33 I just want to be a tourist.
    0:24:35 The relationships with all
    0:24:36 countries are not like that.
    0:24:38 And so hosting some of these
    0:24:40 how to travel info sessions
    0:24:42 can be such a really great
    0:24:43 way to get clients because
    0:24:44 once people get into that
    0:24:45 info session, and you’re
    0:24:46 certainly not trying to scare
    0:24:48 anyone, but they realize that
    0:24:49 they just don’t know as much
    0:24:51 as they need to know in order
    0:24:52 to have a successful trip,
    0:24:54 they’re immediately going to
    0:24:55 think, I’m going to be a lot
    0:24:56 safer in the hands of this
    0:24:58 travel advisor who’s hosting
    0:24:58 this session.
    0:25:00 It’s not even an ageist
    0:25:01 thing, but certainly there
    0:25:02 are people as well that
    0:25:04 maybe are not as online as
    0:25:04 much, right?
    0:25:05 So they don’t know all of
    0:25:06 the different, you know,
    0:25:08 resources available to them.
    0:25:10 And so they would just
    0:25:11 benefit from doing, you know,
    0:25:12 work face-to-face with
    0:25:12 someone.
    0:25:13 Yeah, the amount of
    0:25:15 information out there is so
    0:25:16 overwhelming where it’s like
    0:25:17 if somebody could cut through
    0:25:19 the clutter and help
    0:25:21 streamline that process, it
    0:25:22 makes a lot of sense.
    0:25:23 I feel like my parents have
    0:25:24 gone to, you know, the
    0:25:26 Rick Steves info session and
    0:25:27 then they end up booking
    0:25:28 the Rick Steves tour.
    0:25:29 So it’s like, this is a
    0:25:31 strategy that clearly can
    0:25:31 work.
    0:25:31 Absolutely.
    0:25:32 And if you show them
    0:25:34 something that they don’t
    0:25:35 think they could have found
    0:25:36 on their own, so going back
    0:25:38 to that Japan info session we
    0:25:39 were talking about, if you
    0:25:41 show them, hey, here’s this
    0:25:42 incredible, you know,
    0:25:44 activity, tour, private
    0:25:45 cooking class, whatever it
    0:25:46 might be, they’ve never
    0:25:47 heard of before, right?
    0:25:49 You’re not going to give a
    0:25:50 talk and you’re not going to
    0:25:51 name the top five spots that
    0:25:53 they can easily find by just
    0:25:54 Googling what to see in
    0:25:54 Japan.
    0:25:55 Yeah, the insider
    0:25:56 knowledge, the off the
    0:25:57 beaten path stuff.
    0:25:59 Yes, that’s exactly what
    0:25:59 people want to know.
    0:26:00 That’s what I based my
    0:26:01 business around.
    0:26:02 You mentioned earlier
    0:26:03 Unlisted Travel.
    0:26:04 That is my bread and
    0:26:04 butter.
    0:26:06 I love, love, love to be
    0:26:07 able to delight my clients
    0:26:09 by saying, hey, I’m super
    0:26:10 excited you’re planning a
    0:26:10 trip to London.
    0:26:12 Did you know that I can get
    0:26:14 you this private tour of
    0:26:14 Stonehenge?
    0:26:15 Did you know I can do this
    0:26:16 private thing?
    0:26:18 And they’re always, what?
    0:26:18 You can?
    0:26:20 I’m so excited about this.
    0:26:21 Yeah, that’s very cool.
    0:26:23 And then through Fora, you
    0:26:25 have a relationship with that
    0:26:26 private tour provider and you
    0:26:27 get your finder’s fee, your
    0:26:28 referral commission on that.
    0:26:29 Oh, exactly.
    0:26:30 And that’s one of the other
    0:26:31 great things about working with
    0:26:33 these host agencies is that it’s
    0:26:34 not just about the
    0:26:35 relationships between, you
    0:26:37 know, the host agency and
    0:26:39 one hotel, but it’s also these
    0:26:41 other companies like a
    0:26:42 context travel.
    0:26:44 They’re a tour operator that
    0:26:45 Fora has a relationship with
    0:26:46 and they do, you know, these
    0:26:49 really authentic guided tours all
    0:26:49 over the world in all
    0:26:51 different cities or
    0:26:53 eatwith.com, which is a
    0:26:54 really great way that you can
    0:26:55 get, you know, cooking
    0:26:57 classes or group dining
    0:26:58 experiences, private dining
    0:27:00 experiences with local chefs
    0:27:00 and things like that.
    0:27:02 And so we can book all of
    0:27:03 those for our clients and
    0:27:04 all of these different
    0:27:06 companies and suppliers and
    0:27:08 resources that client that
    0:27:08 you’re working with, you
    0:27:09 know, they’ve, they’ve
    0:27:10 never heard of these things.
    0:27:11 They’re just not as plugged
    0:27:12 into the travel community.
    0:27:13 And also, you know, I
    0:27:15 mentioned community, your
    0:27:16 host agency likely is going
    0:27:17 to have something, whether
    0:27:18 it’s akin to a Facebook
    0:27:19 group or some sort of
    0:27:20 online community where
    0:27:21 you’re going to be able to
    0:27:22 mix and mingle with all of
    0:27:23 the other travel advisors
    0:27:24 that belong to that host
    0:27:25 agency as well.
    0:27:27 And it’s such a great
    0:27:28 resource because if the
    0:27:29 host agency is doing a
    0:27:30 good job, they’re going to
    0:27:31 foster collaboration.
    0:27:33 And so you can post in
    0:27:34 there, hey, I have some
    0:27:35 clients that want to go to
    0:27:35 Egypt.
    0:27:36 I’ve done my research.
    0:27:38 I found incredible things,
    0:27:39 but I’m just not really
    0:27:40 sure where I can find a
    0:27:42 private driver I can trust.
    0:27:43 Does anybody have a
    0:27:43 recommendation?
    0:27:44 Boom, boom, boom.
    0:27:45 You know, you’re going to
    0:27:46 see lots of
    0:27:47 recommendations.
    0:27:48 And that’s, you know, it’s
    0:27:49 a really great resource.
    0:27:51 Oh, this is inside of the
    0:27:53 Fora forums or the Fora
    0:27:54 Facebook group?
    0:27:55 Exactly.
    0:27:56 That’s what they call it.
    0:27:57 They call it the Fora
    0:27:58 forum, which is such a
    0:27:58 great name.
    0:27:59 I love that.
    0:27:59 Okay.
    0:28:00 Yeah.
    0:28:01 So be able to crowdsource
    0:28:02 a little bit of
    0:28:03 recommendation if it’s a
    0:28:04 place that you don’t have
    0:28:05 experience with on the
    0:28:06 ground per se.
    0:28:08 So that makes sense.
    0:28:10 One strategy that I want to
    0:28:11 highlight that just came to
    0:28:14 mind is Rob Petingalo runs a
    0:28:15 walking tour company in
    0:28:16 Washington, D.C.
    0:28:18 And the way that he drove
    0:28:19 business, I thought was
    0:28:20 really creative.
    0:28:22 It created a lot of Q&A
    0:28:24 content for future D.C.
    0:28:25 travelers.
    0:28:26 Like, how does the metro
    0:28:28 work in D.C.?
    0:28:29 Or what is the best time to
    0:28:30 visit the Lincoln Memorial?
    0:28:32 And come on and say, hey,
    0:28:33 I’m Rob.
    0:28:34 I, you know, I run this
    0:28:35 tour company or walking
    0:28:36 tours in D.C.
    0:28:38 And, and here’s the
    0:28:38 answer to your question.
    0:28:40 Like fill in the gap with
    0:28:41 that and really well done
    0:28:42 content.
    0:28:43 But, you know, like all
    0:28:45 things, uh, in content
    0:28:46 marketing, a certain
    0:28:47 percentage of those people
    0:28:48 were like, I really like
    0:28:48 Rob.
    0:28:49 I want to book his tour
    0:28:50 when I go on this trip.
    0:28:51 And so targeting these
    0:28:52 like future, you know,
    0:28:54 high buyer intent type of
    0:28:55 keywords, like beyond what
    0:28:56 are the best things to do
    0:28:57 or just, you could
    0:28:58 probably any number of
    0:28:59 different keyword tools or
    0:29:01 answer the public or
    0:29:02 something, something to
    0:29:02 figure out what questions
    0:29:04 are people asking on their
    0:29:05 way to, it probably works
    0:29:07 better if you’re targeting
    0:29:08 a specific location like
    0:29:10 he was, but an interesting
    0:29:11 way to get in front of
    0:29:11 new customers.
    0:29:12 You’re absolutely right.
    0:29:13 And again, it’s about
    0:29:14 just building that trust.
    0:29:15 I mean, when it comes
    0:29:16 down to booking that
    0:29:17 tour, are you going to
    0:29:18 book with this individual
    0:29:19 who gave you all the
    0:29:20 answers to your questions
    0:29:22 and seemed super helpful
    0:29:23 and honest and
    0:29:24 trustworthy, or are you
    0:29:25 going to book with kind
    0:29:27 of a faceless company
    0:29:29 that you’re not really
    0:29:29 sure if you can trust
    0:29:30 them because the reviews
    0:29:32 are only 3.5, you
    0:29:34 know, it’s a no
    0:29:34 brainer at the end of
    0:29:35 the day.
    0:29:36 Yeah, how do you
    0:29:37 break down those no
    0:29:38 like and trust barriers
    0:29:40 as quickly as you can?
    0:29:41 Anything else you found
    0:29:42 effective on the
    0:29:43 marketing side?
    0:29:44 Well, like you
    0:29:45 mentioned, there’s always
    0:29:46 the online strategies as
    0:29:47 well, creating a
    0:29:48 location specific Facebook
    0:29:50 group or, you know,
    0:29:52 travelers or people who
    0:29:53 want to travel to Japan
    0:29:54 type Facebook group or
    0:29:54 things like that, or
    0:29:55 even online events.
    0:29:56 If you’re not able to
    0:29:58 do them in person, you
    0:29:59 can host these sort of
    0:30:00 online info sessions that
    0:30:01 you can record and then
    0:30:02 post on your YouTube,
    0:30:03 things like that,
    0:30:05 creating this library of
    0:30:06 content are all going
    0:30:07 to ultimately, you know,
    0:30:08 help you.
    0:30:08 Got it.
    0:30:09 Actually, we were just on
    0:30:11 the Reddit forums about
    0:30:12 Japan last night.
    0:30:13 Like, how do the train
    0:30:14 cards work?
    0:30:15 Can you get the kids
    0:30:16 discounted train card at
    0:30:16 the airport?
    0:30:18 And there’s a lot of
    0:30:19 questions out there on the
    0:30:20 internet that are probably
    0:30:21 ripe for you to answer.
    0:30:22 if it’s a topic you’re
    0:30:23 knowledgeable on.
    0:30:24 I have seen a couple
    0:30:26 people who are actually
    0:30:27 American expats who have
    0:30:28 moved to different
    0:30:30 countries and they’re
    0:30:31 there for school or
    0:30:32 something, but they’ve
    0:30:33 ended up doing the travel
    0:30:35 advising thing on the
    0:30:37 side, I think, because
    0:30:39 people want someone in the
    0:30:40 country they can trust who
    0:30:42 knows exactly how it
    0:30:42 works.
    0:30:43 So those are some people
    0:30:44 that choose the location
    0:30:46 specific niche as well.
    0:30:46 Very good.
    0:30:48 More with Bailey in just a
    0:30:49 moment, including the tools
    0:30:50 and tech that might be
    0:30:51 helpful in running a
    0:30:52 travel advising business,
    0:30:54 the role AI can play, and
    0:30:55 how to potentially score
    0:30:56 your own discounted
    0:30:56 trips.
    0:30:58 Coming up right after
    0:30:58 this.
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    0:33:16 All right, that was a
    0:33:17 ton of different ideas
    0:33:18 on how to generate
    0:33:19 interest and potential
    0:33:20 clients in your
    0:33:21 services.
    0:33:21 I think those are
    0:33:22 great.
    0:33:23 I wanted to ask, you
    0:33:24 know, the percentage of
    0:33:24 people that you’re
    0:33:26 serving, you know,
    0:33:27 remotely, is this like
    0:33:28 an online only side
    0:33:28 hustle?
    0:33:29 Are people coming over
    0:33:30 to your house or the
    0:33:31 coffee shop and we’re
    0:33:31 hammering out the
    0:33:33 details of this itinerary?
    0:33:34 What does it typically
    0:33:34 look like?
    0:33:35 I think in the
    0:33:36 beginning it can be a
    0:33:37 little bit more face to
    0:33:38 face, especially as
    0:33:39 you’re working with those
    0:33:40 friends and family who
    0:33:42 likely live with, you
    0:33:44 know, within 10 miles of
    0:33:44 you probably, at least
    0:33:45 that’s how it definitely
    0:33:46 was for me.
    0:33:48 And I do enjoy that
    0:33:49 element of it, you know,
    0:33:51 working with my uncle who
    0:33:52 wants to go to Costa Rica,
    0:33:54 sitting down at his house
    0:33:55 and, you know, going over
    0:33:56 in person, all the
    0:33:56 different things.
    0:33:58 Because one of the
    0:33:59 greatest things we can do
    0:34:00 for our clients is help to
    0:34:01 get them excited, right?
    0:34:02 And say, don’t worry, I’ve
    0:34:03 got you, this is going to
    0:34:04 be so fun.
    0:34:05 Oh, I’m already thinking
    0:34:06 of all these great ideas,
    0:34:06 right?
    0:34:07 And make sure, again,
    0:34:08 you’re building that
    0:34:08 trust.
    0:34:10 But naturally, if you want
    0:34:10 to really grow your
    0:34:11 business, you’re going to
    0:34:12 end up working with
    0:34:13 clients who don’t live
    0:34:15 within 10 miles of you
    0:34:16 and who are not related
    0:34:17 to you or that you do
    0:34:17 not know.
    0:34:19 And so that’s when all of
    0:34:20 the online infrastructure
    0:34:22 really starts to come
    0:34:23 into play.
    0:34:24 And so for that, you’re
    0:34:26 going to need things like
    0:34:27 a website, scheduling
    0:34:29 software, you know, tools
    0:34:30 to be able to really run
    0:34:31 your online business.
    0:34:32 And we can go into
    0:34:33 those if you’d like.
    0:34:34 Yeah, if you’re doing,
    0:34:35 you know, onesie, twosie
    0:34:37 trips at a time, it’s
    0:34:38 probably relatively
    0:34:40 straightforward to keep
    0:34:41 track of in Google
    0:34:43 Docs or Google Sheets or
    0:34:43 something like that.
    0:34:45 But if all of a sudden
    0:34:46 you’re juggling multiple
    0:34:47 different itineraries,
    0:34:48 multiple different
    0:34:50 locations, now it gets
    0:34:51 a little bit more
    0:34:52 difficult to juggle in
    0:34:53 your mind.
    0:34:54 Anything you found
    0:34:55 useful on the tools
    0:34:56 tech organization side?
    0:34:57 Yeah, absolutely.
    0:34:59 There’s actually a large
    0:35:00 number of tools
    0:35:01 specifically designed
    0:35:03 for travel advisors.
    0:35:04 The most important one
    0:35:05 you’re going to need if
    0:35:06 your host agency, again,
    0:35:07 doesn’t provide something
    0:35:09 for you is a CRM, a
    0:35:10 customer relationship
    0:35:11 management software, which
    0:35:12 is where you’re going to
    0:35:13 keep track of all of your
    0:35:15 clients’ information and
    0:35:17 where they’re at in the
    0:35:18 process of working with
    0:35:19 you on their trip.
    0:35:21 And so a few famous ones
    0:35:23 are Travify, Travel Joy,
    0:35:26 or Tern, T-E-R-N, super
    0:35:28 popular, very common.
    0:35:29 But it should be noted
    0:35:31 that not all CRM
    0:35:33 softwares for travel
    0:35:35 advisors have an
    0:35:36 itinerary builder
    0:35:38 component, which is
    0:35:38 something you’ll
    0:35:39 definitely want to
    0:35:40 invest in as well.
    0:35:41 So if your CRM
    0:35:42 doesn’t, you might need
    0:35:43 to get that separately.
    0:35:45 A really popular one is
    0:35:47 Safari Portal creates
    0:35:48 beautiful online
    0:35:49 itineraries where you can
    0:35:50 upload lots of pictures,
    0:35:51 show people what they’re
    0:35:53 going to be doing day by
    0:35:54 day because when you
    0:35:55 deliver that first
    0:35:57 edition, that first
    0:35:58 version of the
    0:36:00 proposed itinerary, you
    0:36:00 really want to make it
    0:36:01 your best.
    0:36:02 You really want to knock
    0:36:03 their socks off and you
    0:36:04 want to make it visual.
    0:36:06 Show people exactly what
    0:36:07 they’re going to be doing.
    0:36:08 Oh, you’re going to be
    0:36:09 going to an ethical no
    0:36:11 touch observatory
    0:36:12 elephant sanctuary?
    0:36:13 Well, what are you going
    0:36:13 to do?
    0:36:14 You’re going to put
    0:36:15 pictures of these really
    0:36:16 cool elephants, you
    0:36:17 know, bathing in a
    0:36:18 local stream so people
    0:36:19 can start to visualize
    0:36:20 what their trip is
    0:36:21 really going to look
    0:36:21 like.
    0:36:22 So in the beginning,
    0:36:23 when you’re trying to
    0:36:24 do this all very
    0:36:26 inexpensively, I have
    0:36:28 even seen people build
    0:36:29 itineraries in Canva.
    0:36:31 Obviously, that’s not
    0:36:32 going to work at scale.
    0:36:33 You know, that would be
    0:36:34 very tiring to try to
    0:36:35 manage.
    0:36:35 Yeah, if you’re moving
    0:36:36 stuff around, like it
    0:36:37 could get a little
    0:36:38 trickier, but visually
    0:36:39 it’ll look nice.
    0:36:40 Yeah, exactly.
    0:36:41 Well, the CRM
    0:36:42 softwares and things
    0:36:43 allow you to have
    0:36:44 different features that
    0:36:45 you might really like.
    0:36:46 So, for example, if
    0:36:47 somebody goes in and
    0:36:49 requests a change to a
    0:36:49 certain part of the
    0:36:51 itinerary, you can make
    0:36:51 that change and then you
    0:36:52 can ask them to
    0:36:53 approve it in the
    0:36:55 CRM software so you
    0:36:55 have evidence that they
    0:36:56 approved the change,
    0:36:57 right?
    0:36:58 So these are some
    0:36:58 advanced things that
    0:36:59 would be really nice to
    0:37:00 have if you’re taking
    0:37:01 your business, you
    0:37:02 know, seriously and
    0:37:02 you’re looking to grow
    0:37:03 and expand and you’re
    0:37:04 trying to be efficient
    0:37:05 and keep track of all
    0:37:05 this stuff.
    0:37:07 In the beginning, when
    0:37:08 you have less capital
    0:37:08 and you’re really
    0:37:09 trying to do it
    0:37:11 inexpensively, use the
    0:37:11 tools that are
    0:37:12 available to you.
    0:37:14 imagine AI could be a
    0:37:15 helpful planning tool
    0:37:16 like, hey, give me a
    0:37:18 five-day itinerary to
    0:37:19 London that would be
    0:37:20 good for a
    0:37:21 honeymooning couple
    0:37:22 and, you know, fill in
    0:37:23 a few more qualifying
    0:37:24 prompts here.
    0:37:26 To what extent is AI a
    0:37:27 threat to the travel
    0:37:28 advising business?
    0:37:30 Well, if I just throw
    0:37:31 in a few prompts, it’s
    0:37:32 going to tell me where
    0:37:33 to go, what time, you
    0:37:34 know, where to stay.
    0:37:34 Like, it’s going to
    0:37:35 throw out all these
    0:37:36 recommendations and
    0:37:37 potentially cut you
    0:37:37 out of the picture.
    0:37:39 It’s possible, but I
    0:37:41 like to think that those
    0:37:42 people who are using
    0:37:43 AI are not really my
    0:37:44 ideal client anyway.
    0:37:45 The people that are
    0:37:47 going to work with me
    0:37:48 are either people that
    0:37:49 are not that tech
    0:37:50 savvy, people that
    0:37:51 don’t have the time to
    0:37:52 organize these trips, so
    0:37:53 even if they had an
    0:37:55 itinerary, they don’t
    0:37:56 know how or where to
    0:37:58 book it, they are not
    0:37:58 as experienced in
    0:37:59 travel, so they don’t
    0:38:00 know everything that
    0:38:01 can fall through the
    0:38:02 cracks, they want
    0:38:03 someone to guide them
    0:38:04 through the process of
    0:38:05 obtaining all their
    0:38:06 travel documents and
    0:38:07 things like that.
    0:38:08 My issues with AI
    0:38:10 aren’t that it can be a
    0:38:10 useful tool for
    0:38:11 people that want to
    0:38:12 discover interesting
    0:38:13 travel things, but
    0:38:16 AI doesn’t think, it’s
    0:38:17 not a human, it can
    0:38:18 only regurgitate the
    0:38:18 information that’s
    0:38:20 already inside of it,
    0:38:21 and so if you are
    0:38:23 going to want to have,
    0:38:23 as you said earlier,
    0:38:25 the best trip possible
    0:38:26 because you’re spending
    0:38:27 all this money, then
    0:38:28 you want to go with
    0:38:29 somebody who actually
    0:38:31 has been there or
    0:38:32 knows the area well or
    0:38:33 has all the
    0:38:34 connections because
    0:38:35 another thing that
    0:38:36 that AI is not going
    0:38:37 to do, just to give
    0:38:38 you an example, it’s
    0:38:39 not going to say, oh,
    0:38:41 I actually happen to
    0:38:42 know the name and
    0:38:43 the WhatsApp number of
    0:38:45 a private driver who
    0:38:46 I’ve actually worked
    0:38:47 with before in
    0:38:48 Colombia, totally
    0:38:49 trustworthy, I’m going
    0:38:50 to go and message him
    0:38:51 right now, right?
    0:38:52 The only thing that AI
    0:38:54 can really do is give
    0:38:55 you the name of a
    0:38:56 company that, you know,
    0:38:57 you might have already
    0:38:58 been able to find
    0:38:59 through Googling
    0:39:00 anyway, and again,
    0:39:00 you know, how do you
    0:39:01 know if that person is
    0:39:02 trustworthy or not,
    0:39:03 right?
    0:39:04 I use that example
    0:39:06 because I was
    0:39:07 recommended to somebody
    0:39:08 else to use a man
    0:39:09 named Oscar whenever I
    0:39:11 was traveling down in
    0:39:12 Colombia by myself and
    0:39:13 needed somebody to drive
    0:39:14 me around to show me the
    0:39:15 sites and who I could
    0:39:16 trust, and he was
    0:39:17 fantastic, would
    0:39:18 recommend him every time.
    0:39:19 You’re not going to get
    0:39:20 that from AI.
    0:39:21 Right, he’s not going to
    0:39:22 show up in a Google
    0:39:23 search.
    0:39:24 Right, no, he does not
    0:39:25 have a website, right?
    0:39:27 In all parts of the
    0:39:29 world, these, you know,
    0:39:30 travel services and
    0:39:31 suppliers aren’t
    0:39:32 necessarily as, you
    0:39:34 know, professional or
    0:39:35 as formal as we might
    0:39:35 like to think.
    0:39:36 Sometimes it is really
    0:39:37 built on those
    0:39:38 relationships.
    0:39:39 Yeah, those
    0:39:39 relationships are what
    0:39:41 can lead to hopefully
    0:39:42 recurring customers
    0:39:43 coming back for their
    0:39:45 vacation or their trip
    0:39:46 year after year, where
    0:39:47 it’s, you know, maybe
    0:39:49 you waive that planning
    0:39:51 fee up front to get
    0:39:54 some reps in and down
    0:39:55 the road, that can turn
    0:39:57 into a, I imagine the
    0:39:58 lifetime value of a
    0:39:58 customer in this
    0:39:59 business can be pretty
    0:40:00 big if people have, you
    0:40:01 know, 20, 30 years of
    0:40:02 their traveling life
    0:40:03 ahead of them.
    0:40:03 Absolutely.
    0:40:05 And one thing we haven’t
    0:40:06 really talked about yet
    0:40:07 as well, but really goes
    0:40:08 into why you would want
    0:40:09 to work with a travel
    0:40:10 advisor and making sure
    0:40:11 those clients come back
    0:40:13 is the support that you
    0:40:14 can provide to that
    0:40:15 person while they’re
    0:40:16 traveling.
    0:40:17 And so one of the
    0:40:18 things that we as
    0:40:19 travel advisors do
    0:40:20 before someone leaves
    0:40:21 for their trip is try
    0:40:23 to prepare them in
    0:40:24 every way possible so
    0:40:25 they don’t have to
    0:40:26 contact us as much
    0:40:27 because we want them
    0:40:28 to be able to
    0:40:30 resolve any issues on
    0:40:31 the ground immediately
    0:40:32 if we are not
    0:40:33 instantly available.
    0:40:35 But that being said,
    0:40:37 very often somebody
    0:40:39 will message us on
    0:40:40 the trip, you know,
    0:40:41 oh, my flight was
    0:40:42 just delayed, you
    0:40:43 know, I’ve already
    0:40:45 talked to the flight
    0:40:45 attendant or the
    0:40:47 person at the counter
    0:40:48 about it, but what
    0:40:49 happens when I get
    0:40:50 into country?
    0:40:50 Are they going to know
    0:40:51 my flight is delayed?
    0:40:52 You know, they just,
    0:40:53 they have these concerns
    0:40:55 and we give them
    0:40:56 documents, we give them
    0:40:57 phone numbers, we say,
    0:40:57 oh, well, if you
    0:40:58 need to call the
    0:40:59 airport pickup people,
    0:41:00 this is who you call.
    0:41:02 But so often they’re
    0:41:03 going to come back to
    0:41:04 us because we are the
    0:41:05 ones that they trust.
    0:41:05 Okay.
    0:41:07 It’s just a little bit
    0:41:07 of hand-holding.
    0:41:08 Somebody called it a
    0:41:09 handler where it’s like,
    0:41:10 I just, I want to show
    0:41:11 up and I want it to be
    0:41:13 the easy button where,
    0:41:13 you know, the person is
    0:41:14 waiting for me at the
    0:41:15 airport and just, just
    0:41:16 things work.
    0:41:17 And it’s like a
    0:41:18 different kind of travel
    0:41:19 than the more like
    0:41:20 adventure travel.
    0:41:20 We’re going to go
    0:41:21 figure out the public
    0:41:21 transport.
    0:41:22 It was like, you know,
    0:41:23 serving a different
    0:41:24 client base.
    0:41:25 So we mentioned the
    0:41:26 upfront travel fees,
    0:41:27 either, you know, flat
    0:41:28 fee based on the
    0:41:30 itinerary option, you
    0:41:31 know, to waive that if
    0:41:33 you want early on or a,
    0:41:34 you know, dollars per
    0:41:36 day, you know, $50 per
    0:41:38 day will help map out
    0:41:39 your, your two-week
    0:41:39 thing.
    0:41:41 The commissions on
    0:41:42 hotels, rental cars,
    0:41:43 tours, experiences,
    0:41:45 travel insurance,
    0:41:46 anything else on the
    0:41:47 revenue side that we
    0:41:48 missed or other
    0:41:49 opportunities that, that
    0:41:50 you see for travel
    0:41:50 advisors?
    0:41:51 Well, as far as the
    0:41:53 travel advising services
    0:41:54 go, that’s pretty much
    0:41:55 the main two revenue
    0:41:56 sources.
    0:41:57 But I will say that some
    0:41:59 travel advisors branch out
    0:42:00 beyond that into things
    0:42:02 like selling online
    0:42:03 guidebooks or, you know,
    0:42:05 travel coaching or
    0:42:06 something where they
    0:42:07 will actually teach or
    0:42:08 like charge for
    0:42:09 workshops about, you
    0:42:10 know, passports and all
    0:42:11 this sort of stuff.
    0:42:12 So there are other sort
    0:42:13 of tangential revenue
    0:42:15 streams related to being a
    0:42:17 travel expert, I’ll say.
    0:42:17 Got it.
    0:42:18 Got it.
    0:42:18 Okay.
    0:42:19 If you’re the go-to
    0:42:19 expert for this
    0:42:20 particular location,
    0:42:22 you know, just, you
    0:42:22 know, download my
    0:42:24 guidebook, you know,
    0:42:25 it’s, it’s the Rick
    0:42:26 Steves playbook.
    0:42:26 Yeah.
    0:42:27 You can book the tour
    0:42:28 or you can buy the, uh,
    0:42:29 the guidebook or, you
    0:42:30 know, watch the free
    0:42:32 content on PBS or
    0:42:33 YouTube or whatever it
    0:42:34 is in this case.
    0:42:36 What, what kind of
    0:42:38 mistakes or what, what
    0:42:40 separates the people
    0:42:41 who pay the $300 fee
    0:42:42 to Fora and then never
    0:42:43 do anything with it
    0:42:45 versus the people who
    0:42:45 start to see success
    0:42:46 with this business?
    0:42:48 It really all comes
    0:42:50 down to being willing to
    0:42:51 put yourself out there
    0:42:52 and willing to
    0:42:53 advertise and market
    0:42:54 yourself and get
    0:42:55 those clients.
    0:42:57 So I do often see in
    0:42:58 the community that
    0:43:00 people will say, you
    0:43:00 know, I, I just
    0:43:02 started with this, you
    0:43:03 know, three months
    0:43:04 ago, six months ago,
    0:43:05 and I’m having a little
    0:43:06 bit of trouble getting
    0:43:07 some clients.
    0:43:08 And when you dig a
    0:43:09 little deeper and you
    0:43:10 ask them, what have
    0:43:11 they done?
    0:43:12 Well, the truth is they
    0:43:13 really haven’t done
    0:43:13 much, right?
    0:43:14 They told their
    0:43:15 friends, they told
    0:43:16 their family, and
    0:43:17 that’s kind of it.
    0:43:18 So they haven’t
    0:43:19 bothered to set up
    0:43:20 any website, any
    0:43:22 social media pages.
    0:43:22 They’re not posting
    0:43:23 regular content.
    0:43:25 They haven’t tried to
    0:43:26 do any of these events
    0:43:27 like we were talking
    0:43:27 about.
    0:43:28 Maybe they haven’t,
    0:43:29 you know, waived that
    0:43:31 planning fee and done a
    0:43:32 couple of trips for free
    0:43:33 up front in order to get
    0:43:34 those testimonials.
    0:43:35 They don’t have any
    0:43:36 systems.
    0:43:37 They’re not doing any
    0:43:38 email marketing.
    0:43:38 You know, they don’t
    0:43:40 have a free travel guide
    0:43:42 PDF for people to get
    0:43:42 on their list.
    0:43:44 And they, in some
    0:43:45 cases, not all, but in
    0:43:46 some cases, people
    0:43:47 think that the host
    0:43:48 agency is just going to
    0:43:49 feed you the customers.
    0:43:50 And that’s not the
    0:43:51 case.
    0:43:51 That’s not what the
    0:43:53 host agency is there
    0:43:53 for.
    0:43:54 Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
    0:43:56 It is true that in
    0:43:57 some cases, and this
    0:43:58 isn’t for all host
    0:44:00 agencies, but it can be
    0:44:01 true that if you prove
    0:44:02 yourself to be one of
    0:44:04 the top earners, that
    0:44:05 sometimes host agencies
    0:44:06 get leads, and of
    0:44:07 course, they’re going to
    0:44:07 give them to their best
    0:44:09 agents because they want
    0:44:09 to have the best
    0:44:10 reputation.
    0:44:11 So if you have just
    0:44:12 started and you’ve
    0:44:13 really not made that
    0:44:15 many sales, ultimately,
    0:44:16 you’re not going to
    0:44:17 be getting a ton of
    0:44:18 leads from the host
    0:44:19 agency, so you can’t
    0:44:20 rely on them, and
    0:44:21 that’s an important
    0:44:22 thing to acknowledge.
    0:44:23 Are they going to
    0:44:23 kick you out if you
    0:44:25 don’t book anything, or
    0:44:26 if you only book your
    0:44:27 own travels, like, oh,
    0:44:28 could I just get an
    0:44:30 8% to 10% discount on
    0:44:31 my own stuff if I pay
    0:44:32 this membership and
    0:44:33 spend more than $300
    0:44:35 or whatever the math
    0:44:36 is on the commission
    0:44:37 on that?
    0:44:38 That’s a really great
    0:44:39 question, and we call
    0:44:40 that self-booking.
    0:44:41 Every host agency is
    0:44:42 going to have their own
    0:44:43 policy, so you’re going
    0:44:44 to have to refer to
    0:44:44 that.
    0:44:46 It’s not uncommon to
    0:44:46 book some travel for
    0:44:48 yourself, especially in
    0:44:48 the beginning.
    0:44:49 It’s a stepping stone to
    0:44:50 learning.
    0:44:51 If you’re booking your
    0:44:52 entire family’s vacation
    0:44:53 and you’re going, of
    0:44:55 course, you’re going to
    0:44:55 be the one that’s
    0:44:56 booking on your
    0:44:57 family’s behalf.
    0:44:58 There’s no problem with
    0:44:58 that, really.
    0:44:59 That’s not a big deal.
    0:45:01 But if you are only
    0:45:03 doing self-bookings,
    0:45:04 there’s usually going to
    0:45:05 be some sort of issue.
    0:45:06 So there might be a
    0:45:08 policy that says, look,
    0:45:09 within the first six
    0:45:10 months of you joining,
    0:45:11 you have to book for at
    0:45:12 least one other person.
    0:45:14 It can be your mom, but
    0:45:15 it just, it can’t be
    0:45:16 under your name.
    0:45:18 My experience has been
    0:45:20 that the policies are not
    0:45:21 difficult to adhere to.
    0:45:23 So I just want to
    0:45:24 reassure people that might
    0:45:26 be thinking, well, I
    0:45:27 can’t get started because
    0:45:28 I can’t guarantee I’m
    0:45:29 going to have 17 new
    0:45:30 clients in the first
    0:45:30 month.
    0:45:33 We’re not talking those
    0:45:33 big numbers here.
    0:45:34 Yeah.
    0:45:35 Do you get to write off
    0:45:36 every trip that you take
    0:45:37 as, you know, legit
    0:45:38 research for your
    0:45:38 business?
    0:45:40 That is a great
    0:45:41 question.
    0:45:43 Now, I am not a lawyer
    0:45:44 or tax expert, so I
    0:45:45 don’t want to say
    0:45:45 anything specific.
    0:45:47 But what I can point
    0:45:48 you to is a really
    0:45:48 great guy.
    0:45:49 He actually has a
    0:45:50 website called
    0:45:52 taxesfortravelagents.com.
    0:45:52 His name is Andy
    0:45:53 Rood.
    0:45:55 He specializes in
    0:45:56 doing this and that
    0:45:57 I’m in that Facebook
    0:45:57 group.
    0:45:58 He gets that question
    0:45:59 a lot.
    0:46:00 So you should
    0:46:01 definitely check with
    0:46:01 your tax professionals.
    0:46:02 Some of it may be,
    0:46:03 but I just want to let
    0:46:05 people know that if you
    0:46:05 are a frequent traveler
    0:46:06 thinking, oh, I can
    0:46:07 just write all of this
    0:46:07 off.
    0:46:09 In fact, Andy just
    0:46:10 shared a couple of
    0:46:11 weeks ago a blog post
    0:46:12 that he had written
    0:46:13 that was about an
    0:46:14 actual case.
    0:46:14 It was a case study
    0:46:15 that is going through
    0:46:16 right now where a
    0:46:17 U.S. citizen quit his
    0:46:19 job and went to travel
    0:46:19 around the world.
    0:46:20 I don’t think he was a
    0:46:21 travel advisor
    0:46:21 specifically, but he
    0:46:22 was going to write
    0:46:23 books and sell e-books
    0:46:25 and he really never
    0:46:26 really followed through
    0:46:27 with writing the books
    0:46:28 and making any money,
    0:46:30 but he tried to write
    0:46:30 off all these travel
    0:46:31 expenses and the IRS
    0:46:32 said no because you
    0:46:33 weren’t really running
    0:46:34 a business and it
    0:46:35 wasn’t really, you
    0:46:36 know, part of it.
    0:46:36 You’re like, maybe I
    0:46:37 just suck at running
    0:46:37 a business.
    0:46:39 It’s just, you know,
    0:46:40 there’s some startup
    0:46:41 costs involved, some
    0:46:42 market research involved.
    0:46:44 I had the best
    0:46:44 intentions.
    0:46:45 I don’t want to get
    0:46:46 anybody in trouble
    0:46:47 with tax law.
    0:46:48 The IRS really wants
    0:46:48 to know that you’re,
    0:46:49 you know, you’re taking
    0:46:50 your business seriously
    0:46:51 and not everything is
    0:46:52 going to be, you know,
    0:46:52 able to be written
    0:46:53 off just because it’s
    0:46:54 travel and you run a
    0:46:55 travel business, I
    0:46:55 think is the bottom
    0:46:56 line.
    0:46:57 But you bring up an
    0:46:58 interesting point and
    0:46:59 something I did want to
    0:47:00 mention here, which is
    0:47:01 FAM trips.
    0:47:03 so FAM trips, that’s
    0:47:05 short for familiarization
    0:47:06 trips and this is
    0:47:07 something that a travel
    0:47:09 advisor can go on in
    0:47:10 order to learn more
    0:47:12 about a specific vendor
    0:47:13 or location.
    0:47:15 And so these are trips
    0:47:16 that are sometimes, I
    0:47:17 want to say sometimes
    0:47:19 free, but often it’s
    0:47:19 usually that maybe your
    0:47:21 hotel gets comped or
    0:47:21 something and you still
    0:47:23 have to do the actual,
    0:47:24 like, you have to pay for
    0:47:24 the flight and stuff like
    0:47:25 that there.
    0:47:26 But ultimately these
    0:47:27 are going to be trips
    0:47:28 that you can take that
    0:47:29 are organized by the
    0:47:30 supplier or by something
    0:47:32 called a DMO, a
    0:47:32 destination marketing
    0:47:33 organization.
    0:47:34 You know, you’ve seen
    0:47:35 ads for like Tourism
    0:47:36 Cancun or whatever,
    0:47:36 right?
    0:47:38 So those types of
    0:47:39 organizations that are
    0:47:40 trying to increase
    0:47:41 tourism to an area,
    0:47:43 they might host these
    0:47:44 types of trips.
    0:47:44 Oh, okay.
    0:47:46 Sometimes they do them
    0:47:47 for cruises as well so
    0:47:49 that you can come and
    0:47:49 you can learn.
    0:47:50 Yeah, how do you get
    0:47:51 on the list for these?
    0:47:51 That’s a great
    0:47:52 question.
    0:47:53 So there’s a couple
    0:47:53 different ways.
    0:47:54 So there are some
    0:47:56 websites that just
    0:47:57 specialize in doing
    0:47:58 fam trips.
    0:47:59 So I forget what the
    0:48:01 exact website name is,
    0:48:01 but there’s like
    0:48:03 fam trips Mexico you
    0:48:04 can go to and you
    0:48:05 can see the different
    0:48:06 vendors and, you know,
    0:48:07 it might not be free,
    0:48:07 but it could be a
    0:48:08 reduced cost or
    0:48:09 something like that.
    0:48:10 And there’s usually
    0:48:11 some sort of itinerary
    0:48:12 where they’re going to
    0:48:13 do a hotel tour.
    0:48:14 They’re going to show
    0:48:14 you all of the
    0:48:15 different things and
    0:48:16 talk to you about the
    0:48:16 hotel and they might
    0:48:17 have one evening
    0:48:18 activity for you to
    0:48:19 mingle with other
    0:48:19 travel advisors.
    0:48:21 But you might also be
    0:48:22 able to get fam trips
    0:48:23 through your host agency.
    0:48:24 Again, you know,
    0:48:25 do not expect this
    0:48:26 if you just joined and
    0:48:27 you’ve not made any
    0:48:27 sales.
    0:48:28 You know, these are
    0:48:29 things that they’re
    0:48:29 going to be giving to
    0:48:30 people who have really
    0:48:32 dedicated themselves to
    0:48:32 growing their business
    0:48:33 and proven themselves.
    0:48:34 But you can also
    0:48:36 contact the DMOs
    0:48:37 directly.
    0:48:38 So you can contact
    0:48:38 vendors and you can
    0:48:40 contact DMOs and you
    0:48:40 can tell them who you
    0:48:41 are and what you
    0:48:42 specialize in and that
    0:48:43 this is something that
    0:48:44 you’d really like to
    0:48:44 pursue.
    0:48:46 Even if you’re not
    0:48:47 doing an official fam
    0:48:48 trip, you as a travel
    0:48:49 advisor, you can
    0:48:50 often contact the
    0:48:51 business development
    0:48:52 manager, the BDM,
    0:48:54 at a hotel or, you
    0:48:55 know, some sort of
    0:48:56 tour agency and you
    0:48:57 can say, I’m a travel
    0:48:58 advisor, this is my
    0:48:59 website, this is my
    0:49:01 business, I’m this is
    0:49:02 my I add a number, I’m
    0:49:03 with host agency, you
    0:49:05 know, this and I’m
    0:49:06 going to be planning a
    0:49:07 family trip to Cancun
    0:49:08 this weekend just
    0:49:10 because, but I and
    0:49:11 we’re you don’t even
    0:49:12 have to be staying at
    0:49:13 their hotel.
    0:49:13 You could say, you
    0:49:13 know, we’re staying
    0:49:15 down the street, but I
    0:49:16 know that you are a
    0:49:18 preferred partner with
    0:49:19 our host agency.
    0:49:20 I was wondering if you
    0:49:21 wouldn’t mind if I
    0:49:21 came over and you
    0:49:22 could give me a quick
    0:49:23 tour.
    0:49:24 This business is all
    0:49:25 about building
    0:49:25 relationships.
    0:49:28 And so if you can, you
    0:49:29 know, establish yourself
    0:49:29 as, hey, I’m going to be
    0:49:30 the Cancun expert.
    0:49:32 I want to I want my
    0:49:33 name to be known with
    0:49:34 all the hotels in
    0:49:35 Cancun so that when I
    0:49:37 call and I say I have a
    0:49:38 VIP client, what can we
    0:49:38 do for them?
    0:49:39 You know, they’re going
    0:49:40 to they’re going to want
    0:49:41 to up the perks and make
    0:49:42 sure it’s a really good
    0:49:43 experience for them.
    0:49:44 I like this strategy
    0:49:45 becoming known,
    0:49:47 becoming the go to
    0:49:48 person, you know,
    0:49:49 building relationships
    0:49:50 with the people on the
    0:49:50 ground.
    0:49:52 And even if it’s not
    0:49:53 a tax hack, sorry, that
    0:49:54 was a total tangent.
    0:49:55 But I was like, wait a
    0:49:56 minute, if I start an
    0:49:57 Instagram account about,
    0:49:59 you know, travel family
    0:50:00 stuff like is does that
    0:50:01 mean I could just write
    0:50:02 off everything?
    0:50:03 But yeah, if only
    0:50:04 that’s the wheels, the
    0:50:05 wheels get spinning here.
    0:50:05 Bailey, this has been
    0:50:06 this has been great.
    0:50:07 Anything that’s surprised
    0:50:08 you the most over the
    0:50:09 last couple of years of
    0:50:10 doing this?
    0:50:11 Well, to be honest, I
    0:50:12 was surprised you could
    0:50:13 get paid for doing this.
    0:50:15 I planned my best
    0:50:16 friend’s honeymoon.
    0:50:17 I planned my dad’s
    0:50:19 lifelong dream trip to
    0:50:19 Montana.
    0:50:20 I was with Engineers
    0:50:21 Without Borders for a
    0:50:22 while and I planned
    0:50:23 three different trips to
    0:50:23 Kenya.
    0:50:25 I got to go on one of
    0:50:25 those trips.
    0:50:27 So truthfully, it was an
    0:50:28 absolutely, you know,
    0:50:29 incredible way to
    0:50:30 practice these skills, but
    0:50:31 I wasn’t getting paid
    0:50:31 for them.
    0:50:33 I was just doing it
    0:50:33 because I love travel
    0:50:35 and I just I was like
    0:50:36 you had kept saying I
    0:50:37 was the go to travel
    0:50:38 person in my friends and
    0:50:38 family group.
    0:50:39 everyone always wanted
    0:50:40 my opinion because I
    0:50:42 was always even when I
    0:50:43 had no money, I was,
    0:50:43 you know, backpacking
    0:50:44 around Europe and I was
    0:50:45 trying to do things to
    0:50:47 feed that travel passion
    0:50:47 of mine.
    0:50:49 And so it wasn’t until
    0:50:51 2023 when I really
    0:50:52 learned about the travel
    0:50:53 advising industry.
    0:50:54 I knew what a travel
    0:50:55 agent was, of course,
    0:50:56 but sure, sure.
    0:50:57 I always talk about my
    0:50:58 big fat Greek wedding
    0:50:59 where Tula, you know,
    0:51:00 is becoming a travel
    0:51:02 advisor or travel agent
    0:51:02 at the time.
    0:51:04 And she’s like sitting
    0:51:05 in this little building
    0:51:05 with, you know, the
    0:51:06 big windows on Main
    0:51:07 Street and she’s got
    0:51:08 this huge desktop
    0:51:09 computer and she’s
    0:51:10 wearing a headset and
    0:51:11 she’s like talking to
    0:51:12 people about cruise
    0:51:12 packages.
    0:51:13 And I was like,
    0:51:14 that’s cool.
    0:51:15 That’s not really what
    0:51:17 I kind of want to do.
    0:51:19 And so I had no idea
    0:51:20 that the industry had
    0:51:21 changed so much, right?
    0:51:22 That we were
    0:51:23 independent contractors,
    0:51:24 not employees, that
    0:51:25 you could set up your
    0:51:26 own, you know, business
    0:51:27 identity even while
    0:51:28 you’re a part of this
    0:51:29 host agency.
    0:51:30 So I get to be a part
    0:51:31 of Fora, but I have
    0:51:32 unlisted travel.com,
    0:51:33 which is where I run
    0:51:34 everything in my
    0:51:34 business.
    0:51:35 They could be fully
    0:51:36 remote, that I can
    0:51:37 work with clients
    0:51:38 outside of who’s in
    0:51:39 my local town, that
    0:51:40 I can sell the travel
    0:51:41 that I want to.
    0:51:42 That’s what we call it
    0:51:42 sometimes is that we’re
    0:51:43 selling travel.
    0:51:44 You know, you get to
    0:51:45 focus on the types of
    0:51:47 trips and things that
    0:51:48 you’re passionate about.
    0:51:49 So all of this
    0:51:50 surprised me because I
    0:51:51 basically was like, I
    0:51:51 could have been getting
    0:51:52 paid for this for 10
    0:51:54 years and I didn’t know.
    0:51:57 And so when I kind of
    0:51:58 dived into it, I didn’t
    0:51:59 know how the industry
    0:52:00 worked at all.
    0:52:01 You know, I have been
    0:52:02 an online entrepreneur
    0:52:03 for a long time, but
    0:52:04 this was a totally new
    0:52:05 field.
    0:52:06 I think that’s a
    0:52:07 great marker.
    0:52:10 If you’re already doing
    0:52:11 something for free for
    0:52:12 friends and family, it’s
    0:52:13 like, wait, I can get
    0:52:14 paid to do this at no
    0:52:16 extra cost to the people
    0:52:18 that I’m serving that’s
    0:52:19 coming out of the hotel
    0:52:20 in a lot of cases.
    0:52:20 Yes.
    0:52:21 That’s always a good
    0:52:22 sign for potential side
    0:52:23 hustles.
    0:52:23 Like what are people
    0:52:24 already naturally coming
    0:52:26 to you for help with?
    0:52:27 If it happens to be
    0:52:28 travel, this seems like a
    0:52:29 natural next step.
    0:52:30 So you’ve got
    0:52:32 unlisted travel.com.
    0:52:33 If anybody wants help
    0:52:34 planning an awesome
    0:52:35 trip, go call Bailey.
    0:52:36 You’ve got make travel
    0:52:37 your job.com.
    0:52:39 What’s next for you?
    0:52:39 What are you excited
    0:52:40 about this year?
    0:52:41 I’m excited to keep
    0:52:43 growing unlisted travel.com.
    0:52:44 The truth is that’s kind
    0:52:45 of a pretty new brand that
    0:52:46 I’ve established because I
    0:52:48 was just kind of doing
    0:52:49 things inexpensively like
    0:52:50 we talked about in the
    0:52:51 beginning, serving the
    0:52:52 friends and family and
    0:52:53 realizing the niche that
    0:52:54 I’m most passionate about.
    0:52:56 So I’m excited to do
    0:52:56 more.
    0:52:57 I’d like to establish
    0:52:59 myself as a travel
    0:53:01 expert beyond my friends
    0:53:02 and family group.
    0:53:03 And so kind of teaching
    0:53:04 people a little bit more
    0:53:05 about travel through that
    0:53:07 brand and then bringing
    0:53:08 the world of travel
    0:53:09 advising to others through
    0:53:10 interviews like this,
    0:53:10 which I’m really grateful
    0:53:12 for to be able to show
    0:53:13 people this incredible
    0:53:13 industry.
    0:53:15 I truly believe that there
    0:53:16 are other people just
    0:53:17 like me.
    0:53:18 I mean, I’m a millennial,
    0:53:19 so I definitely know that
    0:53:20 there are other
    0:53:21 millennials out there and
    0:53:23 Gen Zers especially that
    0:53:24 love to travel, wish they
    0:53:25 could travel more maybe in
    0:53:27 their own lives and would
    0:53:28 love to find some way to
    0:53:30 make it more a part of
    0:53:30 their personal and
    0:53:31 professional life, even if
    0:53:33 they, like me, couldn’t
    0:53:34 just, you know, up and
    0:53:35 change careers and just
    0:53:37 dedicate themselves to
    0:53:37 flying around the world
    0:53:39 like a like a pilot or
    0:53:39 something like that.
    0:53:41 Yeah, to be able to live
    0:53:43 and breathe travel without
    0:53:44 fully committing to a
    0:53:46 digital nomad type of
    0:53:47 lifestyle, realizing, well,
    0:53:48 there’s constraints and
    0:53:49 commitments, you know,
    0:53:50 back here at home.
    0:53:52 But here’s a way to still
    0:53:53 make money from this
    0:53:53 travel passion.
    0:53:54 Well, this has been
    0:53:54 awesome.
    0:53:56 let’s wrap this thing
    0:53:57 up with your number one
    0:53:58 tip for Side Hustle
    0:54:00 Nation 2025 edition, then
    0:54:01 we’ll take a trip down
    0:54:02 memory lane and revisit the
    0:54:03 2016 advice.
    0:54:05 This one is simple, but I
    0:54:07 think it’s a good one.
    0:54:08 Don’t buy that premium
    0:54:09 domain.
    0:54:10 Don’t do it.
    0:54:11 It’s too expensive.
    0:54:12 I was looking over my
    0:54:13 books and I can’t even
    0:54:14 tell you how many
    0:54:16 thousands, thousands of
    0:54:17 dollars that I have
    0:54:19 wasted on not, I’m not
    0:54:20 talking about buying like
    0:54:21 20 domains that I
    0:54:21 ultimately didn’t use.
    0:54:22 I’m talking about buying
    0:54:24 one or two or three
    0:54:26 premium domains that
    0:54:27 were thousands of
    0:54:28 dollars for figures from
    0:54:30 GoDaddy that at the end
    0:54:31 of the day, I either
    0:54:33 didn’t end up using or it
    0:54:34 didn’t really pan out or
    0:54:35 after I had bought the
    0:54:36 domain, but then I got to
    0:54:38 writing the website copy and
    0:54:40 sort of realized the angle
    0:54:41 that I was kind of going
    0:54:42 for isn’t really going to
    0:54:42 work.
    0:54:43 What was your most
    0:54:44 expensive domain?
    0:54:46 My most expensive domain
    0:54:49 ever was evergreenmachine.com
    0:54:51 and I loved it so much
    0:54:53 because of the cool rhyme.
    0:54:54 It was simple and this is
    0:54:56 when I was doing
    0:54:57 evergreen marketing.
    0:54:58 Like evergreen webinars
    0:55:00 and like sales funnel type
    0:55:00 of stuff?
    0:55:01 Uh-huh, exactly.
    0:55:03 And it was a very, I don’t
    0:55:03 even want to tell you how
    0:55:04 much it was.
    0:55:05 It was so expensive.
    0:55:06 And I did use it for
    0:55:07 several years, but
    0:55:08 ultimately at the end of
    0:55:10 the day, like I just, I
    0:55:12 could have built the same
    0:55:14 platform on something else
    0:55:15 and it would have been, or
    0:55:15 I mean, could have just
    0:55:17 bought the non.com version.
    0:55:17 I could have just like
    0:55:19 bought the .net or .co,
    0:55:20 which I know, I know.
    0:55:22 Like we all want the .com.
    0:55:22 I do too.
    0:55:23 Yeah, it’s like premium
    0:55:24 digital real estate.
    0:55:26 I know, I know.
    0:55:26 But I think in the
    0:55:27 beginning though, before you
    0:55:28 have proof of concept,
    0:55:29 like before you’re really
    0:55:31 bring, you don’t even have
    0:55:31 necessarily a minimum
    0:55:32 viable product yet, or
    0:55:33 you haven’t tested the
    0:55:34 waters to like see if this
    0:55:35 is going to have it, you
    0:55:36 know, legs, if it’s
    0:55:37 really going to like
    0:55:39 actually stick with you
    0:55:40 for, for years or
    0:55:40 you’re really going to
    0:55:42 be able to monetize it.
    0:55:44 So my recommendation is
    0:55:45 think long and hard about
    0:55:46 the name and try to pick
    0:55:48 something that you can
    0:55:49 either get the .com
    0:55:49 version when it’s not
    0:55:51 premium 20 bucks, you
    0:55:52 know, a year is like what
    0:55:52 it should be, right?
    0:55:55 But if you can’t, don’t
    0:55:56 get so excited and buy
    0:55:58 that four figure domain
    0:55:59 before you’ve even ever
    0:56:00 sold something because
    0:56:01 now you’re just starting
    0:56:03 in the red before you’ve
    0:56:04 even really got up and
    0:56:05 going.
    0:56:06 That’s my opinion based
    0:56:07 on personal experience.
    0:56:09 I will, I will not be
    0:56:09 doing that again.
    0:56:11 No, this is, this is
    0:56:11 great.
    0:56:12 That came out of left
    0:56:13 field, but we could talk
    0:56:14 domain names in the
    0:56:15 graveyard of GoDaddy
    0:56:16 registrations.
    0:56:17 And it’s like, well, that
    0:56:18 project never went
    0:56:19 anywhere or just never
    0:56:20 dedicated the time to
    0:56:21 that.
    0:56:22 My most expensive is not
    0:56:23 thousands, but it was
    0:56:24 made two or three hundred
    0:56:26 for like start my
    0:56:27 side hustle.com or
    0:56:28 something, something
    0:56:28 side hustle related.
    0:56:30 Side hustle nation was
    0:56:30 already registered.
    0:56:32 And so I had to pay, it
    0:56:32 was only like a hundred
    0:56:33 bucks.
    0:56:34 Just approached the
    0:56:35 previous owner of it.
    0:56:36 But sometimes you get
    0:56:37 married to that idea and
    0:56:39 it is, it’s digital real
    0:56:40 estate.
    0:56:41 So, you know, hold on to
    0:56:42 it long enough and pay
    0:56:42 that registration fee.
    0:56:44 Somebody else with an
    0:56:45 evergreen machine, I
    0:56:45 thought it was going to
    0:56:47 be like a machine shop
    0:56:48 in the Pacific Northwest.
    0:56:49 Like we have like
    0:56:50 evergreen fill in the
    0:56:51 blank name of company.
    0:56:52 It’s like super common
    0:56:52 up here.
    0:56:54 So somebody in the
    0:56:55 Northwest will buy that
    0:56:55 from you at some point.
    0:56:56 Yeah.
    0:56:59 2016 tip was related to
    0:57:00 online courses and it was
    0:57:01 to provide value, make it
    0:57:04 a no brainer for, for
    0:57:05 customers was like, just
    0:57:07 I think it was in the
    0:57:09 context of giving away so
    0:57:09 much value for free.
    0:57:10 Well, I can’t wait to
    0:57:11 see what’s behind the
    0:57:12 paywall.
    0:57:13 I’ve built up so much
    0:57:13 trust and authority and
    0:57:15 credibility that, you
    0:57:16 know, it’s a no brainer
    0:57:16 for somebody to click that
    0:57:18 buy button and, uh, and
    0:57:19 keep doing business with
    0:57:19 you.
    0:57:20 I stand by it.
    0:57:21 That’s excellent advice.
    0:57:22 Pat myself on the back
    0:57:23 for that one.
    0:57:23 Yeah.
    0:57:25 2016 Bailey was smart.
    0:57:27 Well, I think it totally
    0:57:28 applies to our conversation
    0:57:29 here as well.
    0:57:29 You know, everything we’re
    0:57:30 talking about building the
    0:57:31 know, like, and trust.
    0:57:32 And I’ll just say this
    0:57:33 related to that.
    0:57:35 You know, so many
    0:57:36 people, I think in the
    0:57:37 travel advising space, I
    0:57:39 have heard do get a little
    0:57:40 frustrated sometimes that
    0:57:41 now that they haven’t been
    0:57:42 known as the go-to expert
    0:57:44 for so long, giving away
    0:57:45 their expertise, now
    0:57:46 they’re going to monetize
    0:57:46 it.
    0:57:48 People still come to them
    0:57:49 and say, oh, do you have
    0:57:50 any recommendations for
    0:57:51 Cancun or something like
    0:57:51 that?
    0:57:52 And then the travel
    0:57:53 advisor, now a new
    0:57:54 business owner, is kind
    0:57:56 of like, well, I want to
    0:57:57 gatekeep because if I just
    0:57:58 give everything to you,
    0:57:59 you’re going to book on
    0:58:00 your own and that’s not
    0:58:01 how this works anymore.
    0:58:02 And I’m, you know,
    0:58:02 creating a new business
    0:58:04 model and I need people
    0:58:04 around me to understand
    0:58:05 that.
    0:58:05 Yeah.
    0:58:06 I totally, I totally get
    0:58:07 that perspective.
    0:58:09 Here’s my view on it.
    0:58:10 I think two things.
    0:58:11 First of all, communicate
    0:58:13 how your business now
    0:58:14 works, right?
    0:58:15 And say, hey, you know, I’m
    0:58:16 more than happy to share
    0:58:18 with you everything I know
    0:58:20 about Cancun, but if you
    0:58:21 wouldn’t mind, you know,
    0:58:22 could I help you with your
    0:58:24 bookings because this is
    0:58:25 how I get paid?
    0:58:26 Because I just think
    0:58:26 sometimes people aren’t
    0:58:27 aware, right?
    0:58:28 So they don’t realize
    0:58:30 how you as the travel
    0:58:31 advisor are missing out.
    0:58:33 So I think that’s one
    0:58:33 thing.
    0:58:34 And then through that,
    0:58:36 you can delight them,
    0:58:36 right?
    0:58:37 You can get them that
    0:58:38 perks at the hotel they
    0:58:39 weren’t expecting, put a
    0:58:40 welcome, you know, gift of
    0:58:41 champagne or something if
    0:58:42 the hotel will work with
    0:58:43 you on doing something
    0:58:44 like that inside the room
    0:58:46 when they arrive, you
    0:58:47 know, those welcome
    0:58:48 gifts can go so far.
    0:58:48 And then make them
    0:58:50 realize how working with
    0:58:50 you in the future on
    0:58:52 every trip is a no-brainer.
    0:58:52 So I think that’s the
    0:58:53 first part.
    0:58:54 But the second part is,
    0:58:56 it’s just like advice I
    0:58:57 gave in 2016.
    0:58:59 Just give so much
    0:59:00 advice and value and
    0:59:02 make yourself known as
    0:59:03 the go-to person.
    0:59:04 I think people get
    0:59:05 hung up, especially
    0:59:07 service providers, on
    0:59:08 turning every lead into
    0:59:09 a client.
    0:59:10 Like they want a
    0:59:10 hundred percent
    0:59:12 conversion rate, right?
    0:59:13 And that, in any
    0:59:14 business, that’s not how
    0:59:14 it works.
    0:59:15 But in this business,
    0:59:16 it’s not how it works
    0:59:16 either.
    0:59:18 Some people are just
    0:59:19 ultimately, you know,
    0:59:20 not going to be a
    0:59:20 client.
    0:59:21 Give them advice anyway
    0:59:22 because word gets
    0:59:23 around, right?
    0:59:24 So you want, maybe
    0:59:25 they’ll refer you to
    0:59:27 somebody else and
    0:59:28 they’ll become your
    0:59:28 client.
    0:59:30 And it comes down to
    0:59:31 tapping into your
    0:59:32 network’s network in a
    0:59:32 lot of ways, especially
    0:59:33 early on, where you can
    0:59:35 occupy that little sliver
    0:59:36 of brain space.
    0:59:37 Or if somebody’s going
    0:59:38 to Cancun or Egypt or
    0:59:39 Japan or, you know,
    0:59:41 they know, like, oh, I
    0:59:42 know somebody who is
    0:59:43 great at that.
    0:59:44 They can help you.
    0:59:45 And like, you’re trying
    0:59:46 to get those referrals or
    0:59:47 that word-of-mouth engine
    0:59:48 spinning in your favor.
    0:59:49 So I really like this
    0:59:51 call to have some
    0:59:53 semi-well-defined niche
    0:59:54 or specialization where
    0:59:55 it becomes easy to
    0:59:56 make that referral and
    0:59:57 that goes for just
    0:59:58 about any service-based
    0:59:58 business.
    0:59:59 Different ways we
    1:00:00 talked about to
    1:00:01 establish that trust
    1:00:02 and credibility and
    1:00:04 meet your target
    1:00:04 customers in their
    1:00:06 natural habitat, hosting
    1:00:07 workshops, going to
    1:00:09 these bridal events
    1:00:09 targeting the honeymoon
    1:00:11 crowd, and then
    1:00:12 potentially targeting a
    1:00:13 higher-end, potentially
    1:00:14 older demographic that
    1:00:15 doesn’t want to do it
    1:00:15 themselves.
    1:00:16 They want that easy
    1:00:16 button.
    1:00:17 They want everything
    1:00:18 handled, taken care of.
    1:00:19 It’s like, I’ve been
    1:00:20 saving for this trip for
    1:00:20 a long time.
    1:00:21 I want to make sure
    1:00:23 that it goes well, or
    1:00:23 it’s a complicated
    1:00:24 itinerary, multiple
    1:00:26 family members coming
    1:00:27 in from multiple
    1:00:27 locations.
    1:00:28 There’s a lot of
    1:00:29 resources for the
    1:00:30 do-it-yourselfers, but
    1:00:31 it also takes a lot
    1:00:32 of time, as we’ve
    1:00:33 learned firsthand with
    1:00:34 this Japan planning
    1:00:35 trip, which thankfully
    1:00:36 my wife has taken
    1:00:37 most of the reins on
    1:00:37 that.
    1:00:39 But it’s like every
    1:00:40 evening, it’s like more
    1:00:40 and more trying to
    1:00:41 chip away at it.
    1:00:42 So lots of different
    1:00:43 ways you can go with
    1:00:44 the travel advising
    1:00:44 business.
    1:00:45 We’ll link up
    1:00:46 Bailey’s resources in
    1:00:47 the show notes for
    1:00:48 you for this episode.
    1:00:50 Your listener bonus
    1:00:51 for this week is my
    1:00:52 big list of 101 service
    1:00:53 business ideas that you
    1:00:55 can apply some of
    1:00:56 Bailey’s tactics to.
    1:00:57 Maybe travel’s not
    1:00:57 your thing.
    1:00:58 Well, hey, we just
    1:00:59 opened up the playbook
    1:01:00 for lots of different
    1:01:00 niches that you might
    1:01:02 be able to use some of
    1:01:02 these same marketing
    1:01:03 ideas for.
    1:01:04 You can follow the
    1:01:05 show notes link in the
    1:01:06 episode description and
    1:01:07 it’ll get you over there.
    1:01:09 Big thanks to Bailey for
    1:01:10 sharing her insight.
    1:01:11 Big thanks to our
    1:01:12 sponsors for helping
    1:01:13 make this content free
    1:01:13 for everyone.
    1:01:14 You can hit up
    1:01:15 sidehustlenation.com
    1:01:16 slash deals for all
    1:01:17 the latest offers from
    1:01:18 our sponsors in one
    1:01:18 place.
    1:01:19 That’s it for me.
    1:01:21 Thank you so much for
    1:01:21 tuning in.
    1:01:22 If you’re finding value
    1:01:24 in the show, help
    1:01:24 spread the word.
    1:01:25 Fire off that text
    1:01:26 message to that travel
    1:01:27 obsessed friend of
    1:01:27 yours.
    1:01:28 We all know that
    1:01:28 person, right?
    1:01:29 Let them know.
    1:01:30 Hey, here’s a way to
    1:01:31 get your next trip paid
    1:01:31 for.
    1:01:32 Until next time, let’s
    1:01:33 go out there and make
    1:01:34 something happen and
    1:01:35 I’ll catch you in the
    1:01:36 next edition of the
    1:01:36 Side Hustle Show.

    What if you could turn your love of travel into an extra income stream and build a travel advising side hustle that fits your life?

    Bailey Richert is back on the show to pull back the curtain on how you can do it too.

    You might remember Bailey from one of our early episodes, where we talked about building an online course business. Today, we’re switching gears to talk about her newest side hustle: helping people plan epic trips as a travel advisor.

    Bailey runs UnlistedTravel.com and MakeTravelYourJob.com, and she’s managed to create a flexible, low-overhead business doing something she’s genuinely passionate about.

    Listen to Episode 670 of the Side Hustle Show to learn:

    • how travel advisors actually get paid
    • what it takes to set yourself up for success in this field
    • creative ways to find clients

    Full Show Notes: $1000/mo Helping People Plan Trips: Inside the Travel Advising Side Hustle

    New to the Show? Get your personalized money-making playlist here!

    Sponsors:

    Mint Mobile — Cut your wireless bill to $15 a month!

    Indeed – Start hiring NOW with a $75 sponsored job credit to upgrade your job post!

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  • What Happened to American Conservatism? — with David Brooks

    AI transcript
    0:00:03 Support for the show comes from BetterHelp. While mental health awareness is growing,
    0:00:07 there’s still a lot of progress to be made. This Mental Health Awareness Month, you can take steps
    0:00:11 to take care of your own well-being and help break the stigma. With BetterHelp, you can choose
    0:00:15 from over 30,000 therapists completely online, and you can easily switch therapists anytime at
    0:00:20 no extra cost. Serving over 5 million people, BetterHelp makes therapy affordable and convenient
    0:00:25 worldwide. We’re all better with help. You can visit betterhelp.com slash prop g to get 10%
    0:00:33 off your first month. That’s betterhelp.com slash prop g. It was a crisis, a fast-moving crisis,
    0:00:41 and so it’s not surprising in retrospect that the debate was truncated, but it is surprising the
    0:00:47 extent to which the decisions that were made in the early going of the pandemic departed from
    0:00:54 conventional wisdom about how to handle a pandemic. This week on The Gray Area, we’re talking about
    0:01:00 tough decisions that were made during the pandemic. New Gray Area episodes drop every Monday,
    0:01:01 available everywhere.
    0:01:09 Support for the show comes from NerdWallet. Your brain can hold around 2.5 million gigabytes of
    0:01:12 data, but that doesn’t mean you should waste any of it on something you don’t need to,
    0:01:18 like researching auto insurance. Because the nerds at NerdWallet have already done that for you.
    0:01:23 Looking for a lower rate? Just answer a few questions, and you’ll find the top insurance
    0:01:29 providers in your area right there. So get matched with the right rate for you at nerdwallet.com.
    0:01:35 Using NerdWallet is more than smart. It’s genius. Not all applicants will qualify for the lowest monthly
    0:01:41 payments, NerdWallet Insurance Services, and California resident license number OK92033.
    0:01:55 Episode 346. 346 is the area code belonging to Houston, Texas. In 1946, the first Cannes Film Festival was
    0:02:01 held in France. My friend claims he can speak German, French, and Scottish. When I said I didn’t believe him,
    0:02:06 he said, “Ya wee bastard!”
    0:02:09 That’s good.
    0:02:12 Go! Go! Go! Go!
    0:02:23 Welcome to the 346th episode of the Prop G-Pod. What’s happening?
    0:02:26 I am home in London. Is this my home?
    0:02:31 I guess home is where the heart is. My heart is mostly with my kids. Had a very British weekend.
    0:02:36 On Saturday night, I went to something called Bum Bum Train, which is this experiential experience
    0:02:39 where you sign an NDA. So I can’t talk about it. I can’t talk about it. It’s like when you go into these
    0:02:45 douchey members clubs and they ask you to put a sticker over your camera on your phone such that
    0:02:49 you’ll believe that there’s so many important people there that you’ll want to take pictures. It’s just such
    0:02:53 bullshit marketing. Anyways, like, and by the way, I went to school in Boston. I went to school in
    0:02:57 Cambridge. That’s kind of the ultimate douche and douchier move. Anyways, I’ve been here Saturday
    0:03:03 night, went to this fantastic experiential, I don’t know, thing. You should do it. Signed an NDA,
    0:03:07 respecting it. But if it ever comes to your town, you should absolutely do it. I really generally found
    0:03:14 it inspiring. And then on Sunday, went into the park, worked out with my son, which was beautiful. It is
    0:03:19 really strange here. I’m experiencing something entirely different in London, or I should say for
    0:03:23 the first time since I moved here two and a half years ago. And that is when I go outside,
    0:03:28 something happens to me I’m not used to. I start sweating. It is a sweltering 72 degrees here.
    0:03:32 And it is spectacular. Everybody is out. It’s like Chicago in the summer, at least what I imagined
    0:03:38 Chicago to be like in the summer. But it’s absolutely just breathtakingly beautiful to be here. And then
    0:03:44 last night I went and had about 11 pork bao buns with my son. I ordered a beer. He ordered a
    0:03:49 boba. And then every third sip we’d switch felt kind of naughty for both of us, came back,
    0:03:55 watched one and a half episodes of Game of Thrones. Boom! That’s what you call the ultimate dad weekend
    0:04:00 in London. And we watched part of the Chelsea game. Anyways, this is an exciting day. And that is,
    0:04:07 I believe the worm has turned. I wrote a No Mercy No Malice on this about how I think that the president,
    0:04:13 or as I like to think of them, the American fascist is hit rock bottom. And that is people are
    0:04:19 starting to rebel. And what’s so weird about this politically is that the things he is advocating
    0:04:27 for America largely agrees with, uh, deporting immigrants, um, a different approach to tariffs
    0:04:31 and international trade. The problem is it’s not what he does. It’s how he does it. And he’s gone
    0:04:37 way too far and revealed himself as being not only cruel, but kind of stupid. And that is the way they’ve
    0:04:42 gone about this. It’s like, let’s, let’s put village idiots in charge that, I don’t know, disseminate attack
    0:04:49 plans on an unsecure phone or type into chat GPT what the tariffs should be or constantly threaten
    0:04:56 and then blink. My favorite is the tariffs are 145% on China. And then three days later,
    0:05:01 the tariffs are too high. They must come down. Well, boss, you’re the one that put him that high.
    0:05:07 Uh, everyone claims he’s playing 40 chess. Uh, my joke is that I think the whole world thinks there’s a
    0:05:12 decent chance he’s going to start eating the pieces. He’s such a man child. What is going
    0:05:18 on? Let’s talk about real news. We have bottomed. I think we have hit a bottom. I wrote on Friday,
    0:05:23 the worm was turned. We’re going to see some leadership from fortune 500 CEOs, even Republicans
    0:05:28 who have said this makes no fucking sense. And they also sense weakness in a guy and a crocodile who’s
    0:05:33 decided to start biting and snapping at every other crocodile in the pond. And finally, the crocodile’s
    0:05:36 like, we’ve had it with this guy. We’re no longer scared of him. And what’s happened?
    0:05:41 He’s gotten someone elected prime minister of a country that has an economy that is bigger than
    0:05:46 Russia’s. He’s gotten someone elected who is our biggest trading partner or someone elected prime
    0:05:55 minister going into 2025. The conservative party in Canada had a get this 25 point lead on the liberal
    0:06:00 party because Justin Trudeau was so unpopular. And like a lot of nations in the world, they are looking
    0:06:05 for a change. Twenty five points down. And then what happened on the way to the voting booth?
    0:06:12 Trump. Essentially, the liberal party and Mark Carney were able to cling or, if you will, associate
    0:06:18 Trump and his policies with the conservative party and their candidate. And Mark Carney was forceful,
    0:06:22 yet dignified in his pushback. Also, by the way, it helps to have probably what is the best resume
    0:06:28 in geopolitics, was the first non-Brit to run the Bank of England, worked at Goldman Sachs,
    0:06:34 was the chairman of Brookfield, understands the economy, understands government, understands
    0:06:39 finance, monetary, fiscal policy. And also it helps that he’s tall and handsome and comes across.
    0:06:45 So he just kind of reeks the credibility. And what do you know? Boom. They won. Mark Carney’s election
    0:06:51 to prime minister of Canada shows that the worm has turned. The Trump is now electing people who are
    0:06:58 associated with anti-Trump movement. This will be the election strategy, the political operative strategy
    0:07:03 for the next 18 months going into the congressional elections in 26. And that is the following.
    0:07:10 Forceful, yet dignified pushback on the fascism, the cruelty and the stupidity demonstrated by this
    0:07:14 administration. And by the way, for those of you who show up in the comments and say I struggle with
    0:07:19 Trump derangement syndrome. No, I’ve just gotten really fucking fond of capitalism and democracy.
    0:07:25 I struggle with democracy addiction syndrome. All right. In today’s episode, we speak with David
    0:07:30 Brooks, an op-ed columnist for the New York Times and writer for the Atlantic. I think the world of David,
    0:07:35 I’ve been trying to get him on the show for about a year. I think he is this peanut butter and chocolate
    0:07:43 of compassion and empathy with just crazy high IQ. I just think the world of this guy.
    0:07:47 We discussed with David the decline of true conservatism, the failures of elite institutions,
    0:07:54 the moral decay driving our politics and the crisis of men and boys. Love this conversation. So with that,
    0:08:06 David, where does this podcast find you?
    0:08:08 David Brooks: I am actually at home in Washington, DC.
    0:08:14 David Brooks: In DC. Well, as I said off mic, I’m a big fan and it took us a while to get you on the pod,
    0:08:17 but really appreciate you being here. David Brooks: Very happy to be here. David Brooks:
    0:08:23 David Brooks: So let’s bust right into it. You’ve been a lifelong conservative. Is there a version
    0:08:30 of conservatism left that you still recognize or believe in? Like where it feels Democrats at least
    0:08:38 to have a common enemy? Where do true conservatives go right now for leadership or some sort of touchstone?
    0:08:44 David Brooks: Yeah, I became a conservative in my 20s after being a police reporter in Chicago.
    0:08:49 And the two heroes for me were Edmund Burke, who was an Irish conservative statesman, a philosopher,
    0:08:56 who believed that in epistemological modesty, the idea is the world is really complicated. And when we do
    0:09:01 change, we should do it constantly, but incrementally. And my other hero was Alexander Hamilton,
    0:09:07 who was a Puerto Rican hip hop artist from upper Manhattan. Now, and so Alexander Hamilton believed
    0:09:13 that progressives believe in government to enhance equality. And libertarians believe in limited
    0:09:18 government to enhance freedom. Hamiltonianism believes in limited but energetic government to
    0:09:24 enhance social mobility. And so those are the two North stars for me. And of course, over the course
    0:09:29 of the Trump administration, I’ve come to believe that whatever conservatism is, it’s not what Trump
    0:09:35 is producing. He’s producing reactionary politics, something completely different. And so I went back
    0:09:41 to those books that I used to read from Edmund Burke and people like Isaiah Berlin and a guy named Michael
    0:09:47 Oakeshott. And I loved them all over again. I think the essential conservative truths are still very profound.
    0:09:53 But they are nothing like what is called the conservatism today. There is nothing like Fox News.
    0:10:00 And I go back to one moment in my formation, where now in retrospect, it looks like there was a crucial
    0:10:06 fork in the road. I came out of the year of Chicago, and I read Burke and Adam Smith and these books.
    0:10:11 And I worked at National Review, the Wall Street Journal editorial page, the Weekly Standard.
    0:10:17 And we believed in promulgating conservative ideas. At the same time I graduated from Chicago,
    0:10:21 there were a couple of people graduating from Dartmouth who had worked at the Dartmouth Review.
    0:10:27 And people may recognize Laura Ingraham, Dinesh D’Souza. They were in this group. And I’ve come
    0:10:33 to see they were not pro-conservative. They were anti-left. They were in elite institutions,
    0:10:37 but they hated the progressive lean of those institutions. And so they were sort of the rebel
    0:10:44 bad boys. The defining feature of the Dartmouth Review was in 1986, some progressive students on
    0:10:49 Dartmouth’s campus erected a shantytown to protest apartheid. And in the middle of the night,
    0:10:54 the editors of Dartmouth Review, about a dozen of them, descended on the shantytown and took
    0:10:59 sledgehammers to them. And it was an attempt to dismantle the left, really. And to me,
    0:11:05 it was like Gestapo tactics. I was shocked and appalled, because apartheid really is worth protesting.
    0:11:10 But I’ve come to see that difference between being pro-conservative, which I would say John McCain was,
    0:11:17 Mitt Romney was, George W. Bush was, and anti-left, which is what Lauren Grimm is, which is what Pete
    0:11:21 Hexeth is, what is what Vivek Ramaswamy is. That, to me, is a crucial difference.
    0:11:27 You had a recent essay in The Atlantic titled “I Should Have Seen This Coming.” And you write about
    0:11:34 how people were once drawn to conservatism by a set of values, but now it’s about dominance and rage.
    0:11:40 It feels as if the right has conflated some perverted form or sense of masculinity with
    0:11:46 coarseness and cruelty. How did that come about from a group of people that has typically been
    0:11:53 more aligned with, I don’t want to say Christian values, but religious values that are meant to be
    0:11:59 more charitable than, quite frankly, these heathen hippies from the left? Like, how did it get so mean?
    0:12:07 Yeah, resentment, a sense of siege mentality. And then there’s something animistic deep in human
    0:12:14 nature. And so when humans first evolved, we were in a war of a struggle of all against all. Life was
    0:12:20 nasty, brutish and short. And then over the course of the centuries, we built civilization. And that
    0:12:26 civilization consisted of constitutions to restrain power. It consisted of international systems to try to
    0:12:33 promote peace, but it also consisted of humanistic values, literature, and art and poetry to soften
    0:12:39 human nature. It consisted of moral philosophies, either theological or secular, to answer the question,
    0:12:44 what is life for? And when I look at the Trump administration, I see a massive attempt to return
    0:12:51 us to the life of dog-eat-dog, the life of nasty, brutish and short, the life where gangsters have maximum
    0:12:57 freedom to do what they want to do. And that is the evisceration of all the values of civilization that
    0:13:03 conservatism is supposed to transmit and preserve. And I think the raw lust for power that Donald Trump embodies
    0:13:12 has not only eviscerated conservatism, it’s eviscerated Christianity. Christianity is a system designed around
    0:13:20 the meek, the meek, service to the poor. Jesus never embraced worldly power. Donald Trump is completely
    0:13:26 about worldly power. It’s about domination. And so it’s been interesting to me to watch a political leader
    0:13:31 eviscerate the two philosophies that he claims to stand for, both conservatism and Christianity,
    0:13:35 and such as the acidic power of nihilism.
    0:13:42 You summarized, I remember after January 20th, I think a lot of us on the left just felt sort of
    0:13:47 flummoxed and flat-footed. We did not even know how to describe or even process what we were feeling.
    0:13:54 And you summarized it perfectly. You said that you felt moral shame, that to watch the loss of your
    0:13:59 nation’s honor is embarrassing and painful. What do you think we lost that day?
    0:14:05 Yeah. You know, I quoted in that Atlantic essay, the first sentence of one of Charles de Gaulle’s
    0:14:10 memoirs. And he says, I’ve always had a certain idea about France. And I’ve always had a certain
    0:14:16 idea about America, that we’re a flawed nation that’s fundamentally a force for good. We, you know,
    0:14:23 Lincoln tried to uphold the dignity of man. FDR tried to defeat fascism. Ronald Reagan tried to defeat
    0:14:29 communism. George W. Bush, for all his flaws, created PEPFAR to save 25 million lives in Africa,
    0:14:34 who might’ve otherwise died of HIV. And so we made our mistakes like Vietnam and Iraq,
    0:14:39 but they were straight, uh, mistakes of stupidity, of arrogance, of naivete, but they were not out of
    0:14:45 evil intention. And when I look at Donald Trump, evil intention is part of the plan. And so when I
    0:14:52 saw him attack Zelensky and with J.D. Vance and that old office, I had experienced a blow to my
    0:14:59 patriotism, an emotion that I hadn’t really felt about America before. And then on Liberation Day,
    0:15:03 when the tariffs were announced, I felt it again, mixed with a horror of incompetence.
    0:15:07 These are new experiences, new and shocking experiences.
    0:15:12 Yeah. As I think a lot of moderates try and find their political home base. I think of,
    0:15:15 you know, I think I would have been a Rockefeller Republican if I’d been a little bit older. There’s
    0:15:20 a lot of things about conservatism I’m really drawn to. And I wonder as someone who’s, you know,
    0:15:26 I think a lot of progressives are like, we think, okay, we get, we Democrats get it wrong a lot. We
    0:15:32 take things too far. Identity politics, I think, is out of control. But the way you describe Americans,
    0:15:38 I would describe Democrats right now. Their heart’s in the right place. But we just often take things
    0:15:45 too far. We let 250,000 people across the border on December of 23rd, inspiring an overreaction where
    0:15:53 we start basically rounding up people with the wrong tattoos. We let DEI apparatus on campus go so far
    0:16:01 that it probably becomes unconsciously, accidentally racist itself and we inspire an overreaction. Do you
    0:16:06 think there’s any truth to the notion that we on the left, quite frankly, have a tendency to stick
    0:16:12 out our chin and just take things too far and quite frankly, create space for an overreaction? Is
    0:16:21 some of this our fault? Oh, absolutely. You know, I would say one flaw, and now where I position myself,
    0:16:25 I read one of my heroes is Isaiah Berlin, the British philosopher. And he said, I’m happy to
    0:16:29 be on the rightward edge of the leftward tendency. And that’s where I find myself these days on the
    0:16:34 rightward edge of the leftward tendency. I associate more with the, with moderate or to the Democrats,
    0:16:39 I guess, but I am the conservative version of that. And when I look at the progressive world,
    0:16:45 I think it was just a horrible mistake to buy into an ideology that defines all human relationships
    0:16:51 into oppressor oppressed groups. It was a horrible mistake to think that a person’s ideas, values,
    0:16:58 and worldviews are determined by their racial or gender identities. But the ultimate sin for me
    0:17:04 that progressives committed over the last 70 years is they created worlds in the universities and in
    0:17:10 the media and the cultural institutions and the nonprofits where there was no room for voices that
    0:17:17 were working-class voices and there was no room for conservative voices. So when I joined journalism as a
    0:17:24 police reporter, I worked around a lot of high school grads. Journalism had a strong working-class component
    0:17:29 in those days. And when I went to college, it was mostly progressives, but there were a lot of conservatives
    0:17:36 around. Over the ensuing 40 years, that’s been purged. And as far as I know, if you look at the editorial
    0:17:41 staff of the major mainstream media organizations, there’s not a single Trump supporter in an editorial
    0:17:48 position as far as I know. And so if you tell half the country that your voices are not worth hearing,
    0:17:54 they’re going to flip the table. And worse, if you create a meritocratic system where the children of
    0:18:01 the rich have advantages in getting to Ivy League schools over the children of the poor, and that goes on
    0:18:05 generation after generation, they’re going to flip the table. And one of the things that disturbs me most
    0:18:12 about American life is how we developed a caste system. So college educated people live 15 years longer than
    0:18:17 high school educated people. High school educated people are five times more likely to die of opioid addiction,
    0:18:24 five times more likely to have kids out of wedlock, 2.4 times more likely to say they have no friends. And so we’ve
    0:18:29 created this class divide on the basis of education. And it was mostly progressives who were in charge of our
    0:18:35 educational institutions. So that fixing that problem is one of the things I think progressives have to have
    0:18:36 to work on.
    0:18:41 Yeah, I think a lot about this. And the way I describe what you just described is this magic drug that does
    0:18:45 all the wonderful things you’re talking about if you take it. And yet we as progressives who run these
    0:18:51 institutions have decided to hoard this drug through artificial scarcity. That America has become a
    0:19:00 rejectionist kind of LVMH exclusionary culture that once I have a house, I get very concerned with traffic and show up and
    0:19:04 make sure no one else can build a house because the incentive is to see the value of my house go up.
    0:19:11 Once I have a college degree, I kind of enjoy hearing that the admissions rate has gone from 76% to 9%, which is my alma mater,
    0:19:17 UCLA. Do you think that there’s this virus that infects Democrats and Republicans where we’ve decided,
    0:19:24 once you get there, pull up the bridge behind you, that we’re more LVMH than what was originally envisioned for
    0:19:25 America?
    0:19:32 Yeah, I mean, I would say the one little activity that personifies what you just said is my daughter did okay
    0:19:40 in her SAT scores, and she started getting brochures from colleges. And she got big, expensive, glossy brochures
    0:19:45 from schools like Harvard. There is literally no student in my zip code who can get into Harvard who
    0:19:51 doesn’t know about Harvard. And so why did they send these fancy brochures? In order to induce students
    0:19:56 to apply so they can reject them. That way they can say we’re rejecting 96% of the kids who are applying
    0:20:03 to our school. And so that’s a bit of the cynicism of creating, not only creating scarcity, but bragging that
    0:20:09 you’ve become a rejection academy, rejecting 96% of the kids who apply. And so that to me is a bit of the segmentation.
    0:20:14 And then recruiters from the banks and the consulting groups, they recruit at various
    0:20:20 few schools. Somebody did a study of looking at who works in media, entertainment, corporations, law,
    0:20:30 science. And 54% in these various diverse fields went to the same 32 elite colleges. And so we have created
    0:20:38 a segregation system based on SAT scores and grades that divide society at a very early age. And a lot
    0:20:44 of kids know by age eight or nine, because they’re tested so often, whether the system thinks they’re
    0:20:51 dumb or smart. And the dumb ones are alienated. And they think the system is rigged against it, which is
    0:20:57 accurate. Uh, I had an interesting call with a friend of mine who lives in Ohio, who’s an electrician.
    0:21:03 And he, he said, you know, David, I saw you saying nice things about institutions that you really were
    0:21:07 through some really wonderful institutions that made you a better person. And I would include my summer
    0:21:13 camp, my high school, my college. He said, I’ve never felt that way about institutions. That was such a novel
    0:21:17 thought for me, because every institution I’ve been a part of is like a jackboot in my face.
    0:21:22 And that’s just a very different attitude than those of us who were fortunate enough to
    0:21:27 do reasonably well in these elite institutions. We’ll be right back after a quick break.
    0:21:42 Direwolves, not just a thing from Game of Thrones, not just Jon Snow’s best friend. Direwolves
    0:21:49 walked the Americas for millennia up until about 14,000 years ago when maybe their primary food
    0:21:54 source dried up or humans hunted them to extinction. No one was taking notes, but we know they were a bit
    0:22:02 bigger than gray wolves. They ate a lot of meat and their bite could crush bones. And now we know
    0:22:04 that apparently direwolves are back.
    0:22:14 A startup called Colossal says they’ve brought these pups back from extinction. They say they’ve got three of
    0:22:20 them. But are these direwolves they brought back actually direwolves? And whether they are or aren’t,
    0:22:31 should we be trying to bring direwolves back? Like why? Join us for answers over at Today Explained.
    0:22:38 Support for PropG comes from Vanta. Starting a company is incredibly gratifying. It can also be
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    0:25:02 You’re a thoughtful guy. I want to move to solutions. Do you think it’s one idea? I just spoke with David
    0:25:06 Axelrod at the University of Chicago. You’re a Chicago grad. Yeah, I’m a Chicago grad.
    0:25:11 Yeah. Okay. In the middle of the tour, I just did that college week, college tour with my son.
    0:25:17 And they keep talking in this very like warm tones. If we look at the full applicant, and then along the
    0:25:23 way, a parent. And of course, it’s only the parents asking questions. But I think they should pass a
    0:25:28 law that no parent is ever allowed to ask a question in these tours. Anyways, someone makes
    0:25:32 the mistake of asking the admissions rate. And the guy, this lovely high EQ guy goes, it’s 4%.
    0:25:40 So there’s 75 people on this tour, 25 kids, 50 parents. So one of them is getting in. And we’re
    0:25:44 all marching around the campus. And I say to my son, I said, let’s, let’s leave the tour. I just don’t
    0:25:48 want to get your hopes up here. You’re not getting into the University of Chicago with a 4% admissions
    0:25:53 rate. You’re just not. And I wonder if some of these schools should lose their tax
    0:25:56 three status that if you have, if you have an endowment over a billion dollars, you’re not
    0:26:01 growing your freshman class faster than population. You’re no longer a public servant. You’re a hedge
    0:26:06 fund with classes. What you’re a thoughtful guy. You’ve written on the topic. What do you think we
    0:26:10 do to try and break the caste system that has become higher education?
    0:26:16 You know, first on those college tours, I’ve never felt more invisible in my life than when I’m a
    0:26:22 parent on one of those college tours, because you realize you don’t matter at all. But I would say these
    0:26:26 schools, and I piss on them all the time, they’re still fantastic places.
    0:26:28 If you can get in, it’s amazing.
    0:26:33 If you can get in. They’re amazing places of deep learning. And what I’m hoping is the
    0:26:38 universities will do a couple things. First, expand, as you suggest, to allow more access.
    0:26:45 Second, do genuine intellectual diversity on campus. And so since I’m more conservative than the campus
    0:26:50 norm, I now talk politics, something I would never have done in the classroom. I’d say, look,
    0:26:53 I’m a conservative. I just want to explain to you what it feels like, why I became a conservative. So
    0:26:59 you have some access. You know what a conservative looks like. And so that’s strange to a lot of
    0:27:05 students. The third and most important thing is we need to redefine our definition of ability.
    0:27:10 Our whole system is based on the definition of ability, which is the ability to suck up to
    0:27:15 teachers between the ages of 15 and 18 and do well on standardized tests. That is not what genuine
    0:27:20 ability is. It doesn’t allow for curiosity. It doesn’t allow for determination, for drive,
    0:27:27 for social skills. And if we had a wider definition of ability that rich parents couldn’t gain as well
    0:27:33 to include those more humanistic traits, then it’s more widely dispersed across populations.
    0:27:38 And we would have a more democratic student body because we’d measure the things that really matter
    0:27:42 that don’t require you to go to a private school to get all the training.
    0:27:47 And so to me, the history of the meritocracy is the history of different definitions of ability.
    0:27:53 And it used to be, if you were in a military society, it was military courage. Then in the 19th
    0:27:59 century, it was social breeding. Did you come over from Mayflower? But in the 1930s to 1950s,
    0:28:05 the whole system switched over to IQ. And that’s just an incredibly narrow definition of ability. So
    0:28:10 the only way to really diversify and democratize the system is to redefine what ability is, what we’re
    0:28:15 going to measure, what criteria we’re going to use to accept or reject kids. And we’ll understand that
    0:28:23 the distinctions these days we draw between Princeton and, I don’t know, Penn State, these are ridiculous
    0:28:29 distinctions. Williams and Amherst, you know, these are ridiculous. But we’ve built this
    0:28:34 hierarchy of status, which perverts and distorts all of society.
    0:28:41 Do you think though, I wonder if the argument over the criteria for who gets in, whether it’s
    0:28:46 going from more analytical to more qualitative, that it’s the wrong argument, that it shouldn’t
    0:28:52 be who gets in. That’s a misdirect from the key argument, and that is how many. And that is DEI
    0:28:56 is an initiative. DEI has caused a lot of problems on campus. I actually am, I don’t want to call it
    0:29:00 conservative here, but I think the DEI apparatus on campus should be disassembled.
    0:29:07 You know, 60% of Harvard’s freshman class identifies as non-white. So what is the 140-person
    0:29:12 DEI apparatus actually doing? But at the same time, I think all of that is a misdirect from
    0:29:17 what we should be talking about, and that is how many get in. So junior colleges don’t have a DEI
    0:29:22 problem because you just show up, you pay the fee to get in. And there’s not all this manufactured
    0:29:28 stress over who gets in and then an argument over who deserves advantage. And my premise has always
    0:29:32 been at the age of 18, I don’t know about you, I was remarkably unremarkable. And I don’t believe
    0:29:37 any organization, test, or individual can be the arbiter of who’s going to be a success at 18.
    0:29:42 You know, I think a lot about men. Our prefrontal cortex just doesn’t fully develop until 25.
    0:29:47 And I didn’t get my act together until I was in graduate school. And fortunately,
    0:29:53 Berkeley let me into graduate school with a 2.27 undergraduate GPA. And so these institutions
    0:30:00 are amazing, but why would they sequester this drug? Anyways, I’m sorry, a bit of a speech there.
    0:30:04 I’m curious what you think about the idea of mandatory national service.
    0:30:11 I couldn’t be more enthusiastic about it. In part, because it would get kids from Berkeley
    0:30:18 to meet kids from Birmingham, Alabama. And so, and then it would give students a sense of
    0:30:23 what this country is like, what different kinds of people that are in it. But it would also give them
    0:30:29 a sense that life is really about offering. What are you offering? And you know, one of my favorite
    0:30:33 sayings about vocation is a famous one from the novelist Frederick Buechner. You find your calling
    0:30:39 where your deep gladness meets the world’s deep need. And how do you find the world’s deep need?
    0:30:44 You’re probably not going to find it at the office at McKinsey or on the campus of some fancy university.
    0:30:48 You have to go out to where the problems are. I’m also a fan of Viktor Frankl,
    0:30:54 whose book “Man’s Search for Meaning Everybody Should Read.” And he was an Austrian psychiatrist who was
    0:30:59 put in a Nazi concentration camp. And he realized the wrong question to ask about your life is,
    0:31:06 what do I want from life? The right question to ask is, what is life asking of me? What problems
    0:31:13 are in front of me that I am uniquely qualified to take part in addressing? And so to national service
    0:31:19 would give kids a chance to go out where the problems are. And they’ll be moved by the injustice
    0:31:25 of homelessness. So they’ll be moved by struggles in rural America. They’ll be moved by urban poverty.
    0:31:31 And it’s tapping into that calling will arouse tremendous energy levels. I just think it’s
    0:31:37 it’s become tremendously hard to be in your twenties these days, in part because we don’t give students
    0:31:42 enough avenues to find their purpose in life. And you can only do that by trying out a bunch of stuff
    0:31:48 in your twenties and figure out which touches your soul. I’m sort of like you. I graduated maybe halfway
    0:31:53 in my public high school class. I went to Chicago because in those days Chicago was accepting 74%.
    0:31:59 And just to underline something you said, I fervently agree with you that you can’t predict how a person’s
    0:32:07 going to do by anything they do at age 18. They have not been formed. And the key to success in
    0:32:12 life is not how smart you were at 18, but whether you’re capable of keep growing and learning all the
    0:32:18 days of your life. And I taught off and on at Yale for 20 years. And it’s a wonderful place. I think
    0:32:24 it’s a fantastic place. But I noticed this phenomenon with some of my students. They were electric at 21.
    0:32:30 But by the time I would have coffee with them 10 years after graduation, some light had gone out.
    0:32:38 They’d fallen into some career rut. They were not asking the big questions anymore. And so to me,
    0:32:43 me, I don’t want to know whether you’re shiny at 18. I want to know, are you capable of perpetual
    0:32:47 growth until you’re a hundred? And that, that is a skill that you can’t measure at 18.
    0:32:53 Talk about when, do you believe, do you buy into this thesis that the idolatry of money has kind
    0:33:00 of overwhelmed and crowded out character, service, patriotism? Where do you stand on the thesis that
    0:33:03 it’s the idolatry of money that has really, really hurt America?
    0:33:09 Yeah. I would say it’s, um, that’s a rhythm in American life where money becomes the dominant
    0:33:16 ethos. And you would say the 1880s, the 1890s, uh, we were incredibly, um, materialistic society.
    0:33:22 But what you need is a moral system that stands against capitalism. So you live in the, in the
    0:33:28 contest and the tension between capitalism, say, and Catholicism or capitalism and Judaism,
    0:33:34 or frankly, capitalism and progressivism. These are all systems or capitalism and environmentalism.
    0:33:42 These are all systems that push against some of the worst flaws of capitalism and, uh, give you a
    0:33:48 moral basis to make your decision, a sense of right and wrong, not just richer or poorer. And so I think
    0:33:52 creative people live in the tension between those two things. And I think what we’ve seen is the collapse
    0:33:58 of all rival systems. One of my favorite sayings from psychology is from a guy named John Bowlby,
    0:34:03 who does attachment research. He says, “All of life is a series of daring explorations from a secure
    0:34:08 base.” We need that secure base. And that secure base fundamentally is about your relationship with
    0:34:14 your parents, having secure attachments. But it’s also about, uh, having a secure home, hometown,
    0:34:20 a safe neighborhood. Uh, but it’s also about a moral order. The sense that you live within a coherent
    0:34:25 moral order and you can make the decisions of your life based on these. There was a historian named
    0:34:31 George Marsden who wrote once that what gave Martin Luther King’s rhetoric such power was his sense that
    0:34:36 there was a moral order woven into the fabric of universe. That segregation was not just wrong.
    0:34:41 Sometimes segregation was always wrong. Slavery is always wrong under all circumstances. And so that
    0:34:46 you, that gives you a sense of security if you have a sense that yes, that right and wrong are permanent.
    0:34:52 And we took that away. We privatized morality. We told people it’s up to you to come up with your own
    0:34:57 values. And if your name is Aristotle or Nietzsche, maybe you can do this. Most of us can’t come up with
    0:35:04 our own values and we’re left in sort of a formless world that gives no security. Way back in 1955,
    0:35:09 a great columnist named Walter Libman wrote a book in which he wrote that if what is right and wrong
    0:35:16 is just what each individual invents based on his or her feelings, we have left the bounds of civilization.
    0:35:23 And I think we have left those bounds. So it’s a loss of social security, friends, family are weakening,
    0:35:30 community base is weakening, and moral base is weakening. And that to me explains what I think is
    0:35:34 the deep root cause of our, a lot of our political problems, which is a spiritual and relational crisis.
    0:35:40 The rise of disconnection, the rise of loneliness, the rise of suicide. 45% of teenagers say they’re
    0:35:45 persistently hopeless and despondent. The number of Americans who say they have no close friends has
    0:35:50 gone up fourfold since 2000. And so we’ve just seen a decay at the foundations of society,
    0:35:53 and that has perverted our politics.
    0:36:01 Let’s try and move to solutions, a spiritual and personal disconnection. How do you think we repair
    0:36:07 this? If you, I imagine, get called a lot by probably not this White House, but you probably
    0:36:13 have a lot of influencing asked a lot. What, what are the two or three programs you believe warrant real
    0:36:16 investment and attention to try and heal this, this decay?
    0:36:21 Well, first on the political front, you know, I thought Joe Biden had one job,
    0:36:25 and his job was to redirect resources to the places that had been left behind.
    0:36:30 And I thought he basically succeeded at that. If you look at the people who received the money
    0:36:33 from the Build Back Better and the big infrastructure bills and all that stuff,
    0:36:37 they were mostly Republican rural places. And if you look at where the big,
    0:36:45 Rahm Emanuel, who was then our ambassador to Japan, produced a map where he showed where the big,
    0:36:49 massive investments are in chip plants and other kinds of manufacturing facilities. And the good news
    0:36:55 for me was like out of the top 100, only two were in California, but five or six or seven were in
    0:37:01 Illinois and five or six or seven were in Iowa, upstate New York. And as I travel around the country,
    0:37:06 I find a lot of those places, you go to Eastern Ohio, they’re happy because they got an Intel
    0:37:10 plant coming in there. You go around Syracuse, they’re happy because they got a Micron plant
    0:37:16 coming in. There really is some bit of economic renaissance. It did not bloom enough to reward Joe
    0:37:22 Biden. And the second mistake Biden made was you can’t fundamentally solve a problem of respect
    0:37:28 with economic resources. That it’s not only that these places have been left behind materially,
    0:37:33 but they’ve been left behind in terms of status and respect. And the Democrats still have not managed to
    0:37:39 find a way to show solidarity and respect to a lot of working class voters. And crossing that cultural
    0:37:45 divide is a chief challenge, I think, for the party. But then, if you’re talking about the social and
    0:37:51 relational crisis, you know, I do two things. I’ll just tell you what I do. I started a nonprofit called
    0:37:57 Weave, the Social Fabric Project. And we celebrate and reward and support people who are working in the
    0:38:03 neighborhoods where they live. And they’re rebuilding trust in those communities. And we give them money,
    0:38:09 we give them support, we give them platforms to tell their stories. And culture changes when a small
    0:38:13 group of people find a better way to live and the rest of us copy. So you pick the community leaders
    0:38:18 in your neighborhood and you hold them up and say, let’s be more like them. Let’s build connection.
    0:38:22 And then the final thing I did, I had a book come out a year ago called How to Know a Person.
    0:38:27 And that’s based on the idea that a lot of the disconnection is that people just don’t have skills.
    0:38:32 How do you sit with someone who’s suffering from depression? How do you sit with someone who’s
    0:38:36 grieving? How do you ask for an offer of forgiveness? How do you break up with somebody without crushing
    0:38:42 their heart? These are basic social skills. And for a couple generations, we simply have not taught them.
    0:38:47 And so to me, one of the reasons we have such high levels of distrust and disconnection
    0:38:50 is we haven’t taught people the practical skills of how to be considerate to each other in the
    0:38:56 concrete circumstances of life. And so these are at least the things I’ve chosen to try to work on
    0:39:00 as my piece of the larger challenge.
    0:39:07 Something that struck me in your work is that you advocate for putting moral formation at the center
    0:39:12 of society. What does that mean and how tactically does that become operationalized?
    0:39:16 Yeah, when our founders created this country, they took around, look around human nature
    0:39:21 and said, if we’re going to build a democracy out of these people, we have to work hard on moral
    0:39:29 formation. And moral formation is a pompous word, but my favorite definition comes from the gospel of
    0:39:35 Ted Lasso. And he says his job at coach of this football team he was coaching is to make these fellas
    0:39:41 better versions of themselves on and off the field. And schools, unions, civic organizations,
    0:39:45 they used to think that moral formation was part of their job. It was to perform the character of
    0:39:52 their kids. And there was a school called the Stowe School, and the headmaster said,
    0:39:57 “Our job is to turn out students who are acceptable at a dance, invaluable at a shipwreck.” They wanted to
    0:40:04 turn out students who were reliable when the chips were down. And sometime after the war, the whole ethos
    0:40:09 changed. And we went from an understanding of human nature is that we’re beautiful creatures, but we’re
    0:40:14 also deeply flawed. We went to a version of human nature is that we’re beautiful. People are good
    0:40:20 inside. There’s an angel inside. All you have to do is self-actualize yourself. And if you think you’re
    0:40:24 perfect inside, you don’t need to do moral formation. And so all sorts of institutions
    0:40:28 got out of the moral formation business and into the self-actualization business, including the Girl
    0:40:34 Scouts, including the schools. And then gradually, the schools became just more careerist. They’re not
    0:40:38 about moral formation. They’re about getting you into Harvard. They’re about getting you a job.
    0:40:44 And so to me, that whole side of human nature, the whole side of human activity, which to me is the
    0:40:50 most important side, how can we become slightly better versions of ourselves? We abandoned it. And
    0:40:54 we’re left with the consequences. And we left, frankly, with a country that can elect Donald Trump,
    0:41:01 because they look at him and they don’t see anything wrong. And that’s the consequences.
    0:41:07 The thing I struggle with, I think that makes a lot of sense, right? I think of Boy Scouts,
    0:41:12 which doesn’t exist anymore. There’s Scouts for America and the Girl Scouts get their own gender,
    0:41:19 but Boy Scouts no longer exist. I think I used to go to church, temple. My dad was married four times,
    0:41:25 so I was exposed to a lot of different institutions. And I recognize the importance there. Having said
    0:41:31 that, I worry that universities, like the one I teach at, offer a lot of courses in sustainability,
    0:41:35 leadership, ethics. And quite frankly, I find for the most part,
    0:41:40 very, just student debt and an opportunity to bring in what I’d call FIPS, formerly important
    0:41:46 people to basically over and over say one thing, do the right thing, even when it’s hard,
    0:41:54 such that we can charge kids more and more money. I just, I wonder if, again, Democrats have decided
    0:42:00 that we have decided in higher education that we’re no longer centers of excellence, we’re social engineers
    0:42:06 and evangelists of a certain orthodoxy. That again, it’s the right idea, but it’s gotten out of control
    0:42:08 at universities. Any thoughts?
    0:42:13 Yeah. Well, just to stick with universities, in the course of American history, universities have
    0:42:17 gone through different regimes. And the first regime was the piety regime. They were Christian
    0:42:22 institutions, and they were there to instill Christian virtues. Then in the 19th century, there was the
    0:42:27 humanistic ideal, which is we’re going to still create moral formation, but we’re not going to use
    0:42:31 the gospels. We’re going to use the, basically the great conversation, the European writers from
    0:42:38 Aristotle to Shakespeare, France to Bacon and all the way. Then in the middle of the 20th century,
    0:42:43 the ideal shifted to the research ideal. We’re a bunch of specialists here to advance knowledge.
    0:42:50 And then it shifted to the career ideal. Our job as universities is to get kids high-paying jobs.
    0:42:57 And then, because those last two ideals were so morally vacuous, the social justice ideal
    0:43:04 filled the moral vacuum and said, “Our job is to be activists and to help people who’ve been
    0:43:10 part of marginalized groups.” And that, of course, is a noble activity, but it’s not the right activity
    0:43:16 for the universities, in part because it turned teaching into a form of indoctrination. It turned
    0:43:23 students into a form of diplomats from their identity groups. But most, and what we’re seeing now is that
    0:43:28 if you affix your university to a political party and say, “We’re activists, we’re the activist wing of
    0:43:34 the Democratic Party,” well, guess what? The Republicans are going to take it out on you. And that’s what’s happening.
    0:43:40 And I’m hoping the universities will realize they’re a new ideal, which is to return to the humanistic
    0:43:46 ideal, which is character formation more than political activism, but then to return to a civic
    0:43:51 ideal. Our universities spend, and like a lot of institutions, spend a lot more time helping people
    0:43:58 prosper in their private lives without thinking carefully, what’s our role in our civic life?
    0:44:03 And why do we have so many universities that are blue bubbles in red neighborhoods or in red states?
    0:44:10 Because they’re not interacting with the civic life as a whole. They’ve withdrawn to the campus walls.
    0:44:15 And so to me, universities are great institutions. They are great, great institutions that are
    0:44:20 really one of the keys to America’s greatness. But they’ve lost their mission, and I’m hoping under
    0:44:25 challenge from Trump and the rest of them, that they’ll rediscover their mission and find out our
    0:44:32 job is really to form people and to create citizens and to be civic institutions that bind society across
    0:44:38 difference and across class difference. And that would be a noble mission and a real recovery for American
    0:44:46 universities. We’ll be right back.
    0:44:51 Support for the show comes from NerdWallet. We’re all juggling a lot in our day to day,
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    0:45:54 The regular season’s in the rear view, and now it’s time for the games that matter the most.
    0:45:59 This is Kenny Beecham, and playoff basketball is finally here. On Small Ball, we’re diving deep into
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    0:47:56 We’re back with more from David Brooks.
    0:48:04 You actually introduced me to someone who’s had a profound impact on my life because you basically wrote what was sort of an adjacent review of his book.
    0:48:14 Back in 2022, you wrote a piece for the New York Times called The Crisis of Men and Boys, and it introduced me to Richard Reeves. Richard’s become a good friend.
    0:48:24 And just the data was so overwhelming to me. And in a weird way, I felt like late in life, I’d found, you know, a sort of a purpose, and that was to talk about this issue.
    0:48:34 And we think about it a lot here. Most of our, 80% of our listenership is men. What are your thoughts on struggling young men and specifically masculinity?
    0:48:39 Yeah, well, I just took a hike with Richard two days ago, so he’s a very close friend of mine.
    0:48:46 I do think one of the beautiful things Richard has accomplished is to make sure this is not a zero-sum game.
    0:48:51 And he emphasized this over and over again, that what’s good for males is not bad for females.
    0:49:01 And that should be obvious, but Richard struggled to get the book published years ago because a lot of people had this zero-sum thinking in their head.
    0:49:08 And I think the crisis of masculinity is in part a system, as Richard says, where the schools are not designed for boys.
    0:49:15 But I think it’s primarily that loss of purpose, that loss of sense that how do I express—
    0:49:21 There’s a British philosopher named Shirley Robin Letwin who wrote a book about the vigorous virtues.
    0:49:29 That we want to be—we want people who are loyal to friends, tough on foes, dynamic, risk-taking, courageous, brave.
    0:49:38 And these virtues, some of these virtues have been shoved aside in the effort to create a more compassionate society, and that’s a beautiful effort.
    0:49:40 But people want to be courageous.
    0:49:48 They want to do things on behalf of some moral ideal that requires courage, force, strength, and frankly, self-mastery.
    0:49:56 And I look at all the podcasters who are now like gigantic buff-ripped guys, and they look like they swallowed a weight machine.
    0:50:00 And—but that’s discipline.
    0:50:04 It’s something you can relate to, and I’m not a buff guy by any means.
    0:50:09 But you could—you see why young men want that, because it gives them something that’s hard.
    0:50:13 And it gives—it fills the urge to self-improvement.
    0:50:26 And we went a few decades by saying the things a lot of guys want—not all guys, obviously—those things are toxic, or those things are bad, or those things are aggressive and destructive.
    0:50:30 But they’re aggressive and destructive only when used to serve evil ends.
    0:50:41 But to serve noble ends, the idea of self-improvement, the idea of being aggressive, the idea of being strong, is something we should celebrate and give people avenues toward.
    0:50:50 And just, you know, I hope I’m not violating your privacy, but Richard has a tradition of taking a camping trip on New Year’s Eve.
    0:50:53 And it can get cold in that 10, 9 degrees.
    0:50:59 And that’s what—that’s the kind of love of adventure that not only boys want.
    0:51:00 Girls want that, too.
    0:51:09 And we’ve reduced the ways young people can experience adventure, in part because of all the helicopter parenting.
    0:51:16 You talk about things around community and comity of man and care for your neighbors.
    0:51:19 I don’t hear you talk about your own family a lot.
    0:51:27 And to the extent you’re comfortable, I’d just be very interested to know—we have a lot of young men who listen, a lot of new dads, a lot of new husbands.
    0:51:32 Curious, you know, we’re—look, we’re on the back nine, right?
    0:51:38 And hopefully we’ve learned some stuff that we can impart on other people or share our mistakes so other people don’t make the same ones.
    0:51:43 What advice would you have for new dads, and what have you learned about being a dad?
    0:51:50 Yeah, well, I was—like a lot of guys, I had trouble expressing my emotions.
    0:51:55 I think I felt emotions, but there was no highway between my heart and my mouth, so I didn’t know how to talk about them.
    0:52:00 And I had a natural fear of them, I guess.
    0:52:05 And there’s a moment that represents the way I used to be to myself.
    0:52:06 I love baseball.
    0:52:07 I go to a lot of baseball games.
    0:52:09 I’ve never caught a foul ball.
    0:52:18 And I’m in Baltimore with my youngest son, and the batter loses control of the bat, and it flies into the stands and lands in my lap.
    0:52:22 And a normal human being, like getting a bat is a thousand times better than getting a ball.
    0:52:29 A normal human being is waving his trophy in the air, my bat, and I’m high-fiving everybody, and getting on the jumbo time, I’m hugging people.
    0:52:32 I took the bat and just put it on the ground and just sat there.
    0:52:37 And I look back on that guy, and I see, show a little moral joy.
    0:52:38 Show a little joy.
    0:52:39 Like, that’s a great event.
    0:52:41 You should be celebrating in public.
    0:52:45 But I was so inhibited that I didn’t know how to be emotionally open in public.
    0:52:49 And I went through a hard time after that.
    0:52:51 I went through divorce.
    0:52:53 My kids left for school.
    0:52:55 And I was living in a little apartment.
    0:52:57 I was lonely and fiercely lonely.
    0:53:05 And there’s a saying that when you’re in those hard times in your life, you can either be broken or broken open.
    0:53:10 And if you’re broken, you turn hard, you turn into a lobster shell, and nothing can touch you.
    0:53:13 But if you’re broken open, you get even more vulnerable.
    0:53:17 And you stay in the pain to learn what it has to teach you.
    0:53:24 And what my pain had to teach me was that I was misleading my life by not living from the depths of myself, but living from the shallows.
    0:53:28 It was very easy for me to use glibness and reason.
    0:53:37 To do fine in life without confronting the spiritual and, in some way, relational shortages and vacuums I’d created.
    0:53:40 And so I did it the way I do it.
    0:53:45 I read books about spirituality, and I came to faith in this time.
    0:53:51 But mostly I just became a lot more able to express my emotions, express vulnerability.
    0:53:55 And that can be an easy drug to express vulnerability, too easy.
    0:53:57 But I think I’m different.
    0:53:59 And my friends tell me that I’m different.
    0:54:04 And one of my wife, we’ve been married eight years, she looks at earlier versions of me on video.
    0:54:06 She says, well, I wouldn’t have married that guy.
    0:54:14 And so I guess my lesson is to become familiar with your emotional and spiritual life.
    0:54:17 And it will bring you greater pains and greater joys.
    0:54:21 But you have to do that either through spiritual practices.
    0:54:23 For me, it’s in the case of spiritual reading.
    0:54:25 That’s how I process.
    0:54:29 But it’s also through the process of deeper conversations.
    0:54:31 I’ll tell you one quick story.
    0:54:34 When I was in between marriages, I was dating.
    0:54:37 And I was talking to my daughter on the phone.
    0:54:40 And I asked her what she was doing that weekend.
    0:54:45 And she said, you know, I’m a little nervous because I’m going to meet my boyfriend’s parents for the first time.
    0:54:50 And I said to her, you know, I’m a little nervous because I’m going to meet my girlfriend’s parents for the first time.
    0:54:56 And in that moment, our relationship went from being adult to child to adult to adult.
    0:55:02 And we could talk about things that as a parent, sometimes you don’t want to open up too much to your kids.
    0:55:05 But when it’s adult to adult, you can open up a little more.
    0:55:06 Not totally, but open up a little more.
    0:55:12 And that was a beautiful shift in our relationship that to be able to just be adults and adults together working through crap.
    0:55:16 And I found that was, that’s a beautiful moment.
    0:55:20 And the overall lesson, I would say, is no matter what your age, it’s never too late to change.
    0:55:23 People change, not just in adolescence, they change through adulthood.
    0:55:27 And the emotional, the transformation I needed in my life was an emotional one.
    0:55:31 Thoughts on being a good partner, good husband?
    0:55:36 You know, there’s a guy named Tim Keller who wrote a book called The Meaning of Marriage.
    0:55:41 And he said, you get married and you married this wonderful person.
    0:55:49 And about six months in, you realize that she’s actually kind of selfish in some ways.
    0:55:53 And as you’re making this discovery about her, she’s making it about you.
    0:56:01 And marriage work when you realize, well, my kind of selfishness is the only selfishness I can work on.
    0:56:09 And he says, if you have two partners in a marriage who are working on their selfishness, then you’re probably going to have good marriage and not blaming the other.
    0:56:13 The other thing I’d say is who you marry is just tremendously important.
    0:56:18 And Nietzsche, who you don’t think of as a particularly romantic guy, said marriage is a 50-year conversation.
    0:56:22 Pick the person you can talk with for the rest of your life.
    0:56:26 And so if you find somebody who you can talk on the phone with for four hours, that’s a pretty good indicator.
    0:56:32 The second thing I’d add is that love comes and goes, but admiration stays.
    0:56:34 So stay with someone you admire.
    0:56:36 Pick someone you admire.
    0:56:37 And they will not let you down.
    0:56:48 And then the final bit of advice I give to college students in picking a marriage partner, which is, to me, one of the most important decisions in life, is there are three kinds of love, according to the Greeks.
    0:56:50 There’s eros, which is passion.
    0:56:53 There’s friendship.
    0:56:56 And then there’s agape love, which is selfish love.
    0:57:00 And if you’re going to marry someone, you should have all three kinds of love.
    0:57:03 If you just have eros, you have a hookup, but you don’t have a relationship.
    0:57:07 If you just have Philly, a friendship, you have a friendship, but you don’t have a romantic love.
    0:57:08 You should have all three.
    0:57:10 And so the bar should be pretty high.
    0:57:14 And so that’s some of the advice I give on making a marriage decision.
    0:57:17 I’m not sure anybody listens, but that’s my advice.
    0:57:20 So you’ve been very generous with your time.
    0:57:24 I’m going to do just a quick lightning round because, you know, you’re a busy dude.
    0:57:27 So real quick, best piece of advice you’ve ever received.
    0:57:30 I guess know something about something.
    0:57:34 When you get out of school, find some field of expertise that you can really study.
    0:57:36 And then you bring that to the table.
    0:57:41 A second bit of advice I would give to young people is build identity capital.
    0:57:46 There’s a Meg Jay who wrote a book called The Defining Decade about being in your 20s.
    0:57:51 And she had a patient who wanted to work at Starbucks, but had a job offer at Outward Bound.
    0:58:02 And she said, go to Outward Bound because at every job interview, at every dinner party, people want to know what it was like to work on Outward Bound.
    0:58:04 That will give you identity capital.
    0:58:07 And so I find that’s pretty good advice.
    0:58:10 Last piece of media that really moved you.
    0:58:17 Well, I’m now listening on audiobook to Andre Agassi’s memoir, which is one of the best modern memoirs I’ve ever read.
    0:58:19 He’s a guy who hated tennis.
    0:58:23 His dad was an absolute monster who forced him to do tennis.
    0:58:26 And Agassi hated tennis all the way through.
    0:58:28 And so to me, I found it tremendously moving.
    0:58:32 A guy who’s really good at an activity that he absolutely hates.
    0:58:42 And the way he struggles with this hatred and this really imprisonment, I find his courage and audacity really moving.
    0:58:45 And he’s just a beautiful writer for a guy who dropped out of high school in ninth grade.
    0:58:49 He didn’t have the benefits of an education, but he’s obviously a brilliant guy.
    0:58:57 And it’s just a tremendously moving look at mastery and finding the things that you really want to do.
    0:59:00 And I just can’t recommend that book enough.
    0:59:06 If you could go back in time and visit someone who’s gone, who would it be and what would you say to them?
    0:59:08 Well, I have a lot of questions for Jesus.
    0:59:11 That’s a pretty big ask.
    0:59:12 Yeah.
    0:59:13 All right.
    0:59:14 We’ll stop.
    0:59:17 And then you talked about finding a purpose.
    0:59:18 Last question.
    0:59:19 What is David Brooks’ purpose?
    0:59:26 Well, my purpose now is to, you know, there’s a concept I figured who came up with it called the lake.
    0:59:28 We all pour into the lake.
    0:59:30 The lake is our conversations.
    0:59:34 And we all are little tributaries pouring into the lake and we learn.
    0:59:39 We listen to your podcast and we learn and we improve our lives just because we’re all learning from each other.
    0:59:43 And so part of my job is just to pour into the lake, like everybody’s job.
    0:59:52 But I think my two core missions, if I ask, first is to try to defend a political ideology, a belief system, this conservatism of Alexander Hamilton.
    0:59:53 I try to embody that.
    0:59:57 Second, I try to embody just a civil way of being in the world.
    1:00:06 And third, I think American society is, as you can tell from my conversation in the last 45 minutes, is over-politicized and under-moralized.
    1:00:11 I think we think too much about politics and too little about our moral and relational growth.
    1:00:20 And so I try to write books that are sort of about that, giving people tips and pointers of how to be better friends, how to be better listeners, how to be better conversationalists.
    1:00:26 And I think it’s in those minute interactions of life that really the health of society is determined.
    1:00:30 David Brooks is one of the nation’s leading writers and commentators.
    1:00:34 He is an op-ed columnist for The New York Times and a writer for The Atlantic.
    1:00:45 He is the best-selling author of The Second Mountain, The Road to Character, The Social Animal, Bobos in Paradise, and on Paradise Drive, he joins us from Washington, D.C.
    1:00:49 David, I’ve admired you for so long from afar.
    1:00:51 I feel as if I know you and I realize we’ve never met in person.
    1:01:00 And you bring this peanut butter and chocolate combination of your commentary as puncturing, unafraid, analytical, very strong.
    1:01:04 But you always feel like at the end of the day, you’re a gentle soul.
    1:01:13 I think you’re a wonderful role model for young men and really appreciate your contribution, not only to your domain, but just to larger society.
    1:01:15 It was a real pleasure to meet you and I appreciate your time.
    1:01:16 Thank you.
    1:01:20 I’ve always, I’ve been a fan of yours and a huge honor to be on this, on this podcast.
    1:01:21 So I really appreciate the invitation.
    1:01:38 Algebra of happiness.
    1:01:40 When I was younger, I took pride.
    1:01:42 I’ve been exposed to a lot of religion.
    1:01:45 My father was married and divorced four times.
    1:01:48 So I went to temple, church, Presbyterian, then Methodist.
    1:02:05 And at a very young age, I decided that I was a quote-unquote pseudo-intellect slash scientist and basically mocked religion and religious people and felt that it was just sort of, I was very judgmental and got a lot of sort of, I don’t know, intellectual reward from thinking that,
    1:02:08 Oh, okay, religion is stupid and I don’t have an invisible friend.
    1:02:09 And it was very judgmental and disparaging.
    1:02:12 And not only religion, but people who were religious.
    1:02:31 And as I’ve gotten older, I’ve discovered that while the extremist part of any religion I find dangerous to society and a very negative force, that that represents an extreme niche and minority of religion and religious people.
    1:02:36 And that religion, for the most part, gives a great number of people a great deal of comfort.
    1:03:00 And while I’m a raging atheist, I find myself thinking that part of the solution to what ails us in terms of loneliness and a lack of comity of man and empathy is religious institutions to go to church or go to temple or to mosque and to be in the company and presence of other people in the agency of something bigger than yourselves.
    1:03:04 And that the majority of these institutions promote empathy and kindness and community.
    1:03:10 And I have someone in my life who’s worked with me for, I guess, the better part of 10 or 15 years.
    1:03:13 And she showed up with a new kid.
    1:03:15 And I thought, I didn’t even know she was pregnant.
    1:03:19 And someone told me, no, she adopted her sister’s kid.
    1:03:20 Her sister struggles with drug addiction.
    1:03:22 And then she showed up with a second kid.
    1:03:23 And the same thing happened.
    1:03:24 Her sister had another kid.
    1:03:28 And our firm went through an acquisition.
    1:03:37 And I suggested that she move to the corporate headquarters where they hosted the people who did or the professionals who were in her department.
    1:03:39 And she said, I don’t want to move.
    1:03:41 And I said, you’d be crazy not to move if you have two kids.
    1:03:42 You’re a single mother.
    1:03:43 You need economic security.
    1:03:47 And she said, yeah, but I don’t want to give up my church.
    1:03:50 And she gets a great deal of comfort and community from her church.
    1:03:56 And I think there’s a lot of people that get a great deal of comfort and community.
    1:04:10 And I’ve tried to become less judgmental and, quite frankly, just less of an asshole and recognize that whatever gives people a sense of grace, makes them feel closer, gives them contemplative moments, gives them mindfulness, is a good thing.
    1:04:14 And I know so many people that find so much comfort.
    1:04:23 And this notion I fell into that intellect was inversely correlated to how strongly you felt or how spiritual you were, I have found that is not the case.
    1:04:30 I have a lot of, I know a lot of people in my life who are exceptionally bright and are exceptionally spiritual.
    1:04:32 I am not a fan of the Catholic Church.
    1:04:40 I think in some, the Catholic Church for, you know, a couple decades figured out a way to institutionalize pedophilia.
    1:04:50 And that no organization would have survived that type of crime against or crimes against humanity had it not had the sort of religious, cult-like following of the Catholic Church.
    1:04:56 Now, having said that, I think there are a lot of good people in the Church.
    1:05:00 And one of them passed away, and that is Pope Francis.
    1:05:02 I think he was an exceptional man.
    1:05:09 And there is a statement circulating, and people aren’t sure if he said it or if it’s just being attributed to him.
    1:05:12 But I read it, and it really moved me, and it’s the following.
    1:05:16 And reportedly, he wrote this while he was in the hospital.
    1:05:21 The walls of hospitals have heard more honest prayers than churches.
    1:05:25 They have witnessed far more sincere kisses than those in airports.
    1:05:33 It is in hospitals that you see a homophobe being saved by a gay doctor, a privileged doctor saving the life of a beggar.
    1:05:42 In intensive care, you see a Jew taking care of a racist, a police officer and a prisoner in the same room receiving the same care,
    1:05:49 a wealthy patient waiting for a liver transplant ready to receive the organ from a poor donor.
    1:05:57 It is in these moments when the hospital touches the wounds of people that different worlds intersect according to divine design.
    1:06:02 And in this communion of destinies, we realize that alone, we are nothing.
    1:06:11 The absolute truth of people, most of the time, only reveals itself in moments of pain or in the real threat of an irreversible loss.
    1:06:18 A hospital is a place where human beings remove their masks and show themselves as they truly are,
    1:06:20 in their purest essence.
    1:06:25 This life will pass quickly, so do not waste it fighting with people.
    1:06:27 Do not criticize your body too much.
    1:06:29 Do not complain excessively.
    1:06:31 Do not lose sleep over bills.
    1:06:33 Make sure to hug your loved ones.
    1:06:37 Do not worry too much about keeping the house spotless.
    1:06:41 Material goods must be earned by each person.
    1:06:44 Do not dedicate yourself to accumulating an inheritance.
    1:06:47 You are waiting far too much.
    1:06:54 Christmas, Friday, next year, when you have money, when love arrives, when everything is perfect.
    1:06:58 Listen, perfection does not exist.
    1:07:04 A human being cannot attain it because we are simply not made to be fulfilled here.
    1:07:07 Here, we are given an opportunity to learn.
    1:07:11 So, make the most of this trial of life and do it now.
    1:07:13 Respect yourself.
    1:07:14 Respect others.
    1:07:20 Walk your own path and let go of the path others have chosen for you.
    1:07:21 Respect.
    1:07:22 Do not comment.
    1:07:24 Do not judge.
    1:07:25 Do not interfere.
    1:07:27 Love more.
    1:07:28 Forgive more.
    1:07:29 Embrace more.
    1:07:31 Live more intensely.
    1:07:34 And leave the rest in the hands of the creator.
    1:07:43 I just think that is so lovely and so meaningful and so instructive and actionable.
    1:07:51 In sum, Pope Francis was a wonderful man that had a really positive impact on a lot of people.
    1:07:59 And as I have gotten older, I have come to appreciate and respect any institution or any person who is providing comfort for people.
    1:08:04 Distinct of my own biases and my own need to feel smarter than other people.
    1:08:07 In sum, I am trying to figure out a way not to judge.
    1:08:12 This episode was produced by Jennifer Sanchez.
    1:08:14 Our intern is Dan Shallon.
    1:08:16 Drew Burroughs is our technical director.
    1:08:19 Thank you for listening to the Prop G pod from the Vox Media Podcast Network.
    1:08:24 We will catch you on Saturday for No Mercy, No Malice, as read by George Hahn.
    1:08:30 And please follow our Prop G Markets pod wherever you get your pods for new episodes every Monday and Thursday.
    1:08:44 Yeah, no, I was outstanding there.
    1:08:47 I was outstanding.
    1:08:48 I was outstanding.

    David Brooks, New York Times columnist and writer for The Atlantic, joins Scott to discuss the decline of true conservatism, the failures of elite institutions, the moral decay fueling American politics, and the crisis facing men and boys.

    Follow David Brooks, @nytdavidbrooks.

    Algebra of Happiness: reflections on religion. 

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

  • Essentials: How Smell, Taste & Pheromones Shape Behavior

    中文
    Tiếng Việt
    AI transcript
    0:00:02 Welcome to Huberman Lab Essentials,
    0:00:04 where we revisit past episodes
    0:00:07 for the most potent and actionable science-based tools
    0:00:10 for mental health, physical health, and performance.
    0:00:12 I’m Andrew Huberman,
    0:00:15 and I’m a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology
    0:00:16 at Stanford School of Medicine.
    0:00:18 This podcast is separate
    0:00:20 from my teaching and research roles at Stanford.
    0:00:22 Today, we’re going to talk about chemical sensing.
    0:00:25 We’re going to talk about the sense of smell,
    0:00:28 our ability to detect odors in our environment.
    0:00:31 We’re also going to talk about taste,
    0:00:33 our ability to detect chemicals
    0:00:37 and make sense of chemicals that are put in our mouth
    0:00:39 and into our digestive tract.
    0:00:41 And we are going to talk about chemicals
    0:00:43 that are made by other human beings
    0:00:46 that powerfully modulate the way that we feel,
    0:00:48 our hormones, and our health.
    0:00:52 Now, that last category are sometimes called pheromones.
    0:00:55 However, whether or not pheromones exist in humans
    0:00:56 is rather controversial.
    0:00:59 There actually hasn’t been a clear example
    0:01:02 of a true human pheromonal effect,
    0:01:05 but what is absolutely clear, what is undeniable
    0:01:09 is that there are chemicals that human beings make
    0:01:13 and release in things like tears onto our skin
    0:01:18 and sweat and even breath that powerfully modulate
    0:01:21 or control the biology of other individuals.
    0:01:24 There are things floating around in the environment,
    0:01:26 which we call volatile chemicals.
    0:01:29 So when you actually smell something,
    0:01:34 like let’s say you smell a wonderfully smelling rose or cake,
    0:01:38 yes, you are inhaling the particles into your nose.
    0:01:41 There are literally little particles of those chemicals
    0:01:42 are going up into your nose
    0:01:45 and being detected by your brain.
    0:01:48 Other ways of getting chemicals into our system
    0:01:50 is by putting them in our mouth,
    0:01:55 by literally taking foods and chewing them
    0:01:57 or sucking on them and breaking them down
    0:01:59 into their component parts.
    0:02:01 And that’s one way that we sense chemicals
    0:02:03 with a thing, our tongue.
    0:02:08 So these chemicals, we sometimes bring into our body,
    0:02:10 into our biology through deliberate action.
    0:02:13 We select a food, we chew that food
    0:02:15 and we do it intentionally.
    0:02:17 Sometimes they’re coming into our body
    0:02:19 through non-deliberate action.
    0:02:21 We enter an environment and there’s smoke
    0:02:22 and we smell the smoke.
    0:02:24 And as a consequence, we take action.
    0:02:29 Sometimes, however, other people are actively making chemicals
    0:02:30 with their body.
    0:02:32 Typically, this would be with their breath,
    0:02:36 with their tears, or possibly,
    0:02:37 I want to underscore possibly,
    0:02:40 by making what are called pheromones,
    0:02:42 molecules that they release into the environment,
    0:02:43 typically through the breath,
    0:02:47 that enter our system through our nose,
    0:02:48 our eyes, or our mouth,
    0:02:51 that fundamentally change our biology.
    0:02:53 I’ll just give an example,
    0:02:56 which is a very salient and interesting one
    0:02:58 that was published about 10 years ago
    0:02:59 in the journal Science,
    0:03:01 showing that humans,
    0:03:03 men in particular in this study,
    0:03:05 have a strong biological response
    0:03:07 and hormonal response
    0:03:10 to the tears of women.
    0:03:13 What they did is they had women,
    0:03:14 and in this case,
    0:03:16 it was only women for whatever reason,
    0:03:17 cry,
    0:03:20 and they collected their tears.
    0:03:24 then those tears were smelled by male subjects
    0:03:28 or male subjects got what was essentially
    0:03:30 the control, which was the saline.
    0:03:33 Men that smelled these tears
    0:03:35 that were evoked by sadness
    0:03:39 had a reduction in their testosterone levels
    0:03:40 that was significant.
    0:03:43 They also had a reduction in brain areas
    0:03:45 that were associated with sexual arousal.
    0:03:47 They actually recruited subjects
    0:03:48 that had a high propensity
    0:03:50 for crying at sad movies,
    0:03:52 which was not all women.
    0:03:52 What they were really trying to do
    0:03:54 is just get tears
    0:03:56 that were authentically cried
    0:03:58 in response to sadness,
    0:04:00 as opposed to, you know,
    0:04:02 putting some irritant in the eye
    0:04:02 and collecting tears
    0:04:05 that were evoked by something else,
    0:04:07 like just having the eyes irritated.
    0:04:08 Nonetheless,
    0:04:11 what this study illustrates
    0:04:13 is that there are chemicals
    0:04:15 in tears
    0:04:16 that are evoking
    0:04:18 or changing the biology
    0:04:19 of other individuals.
    0:04:20 Now,
    0:04:21 I didn’t select this study
    0:04:22 as an example
    0:04:23 because I want to focus
    0:04:25 on the effects of tears
    0:04:26 on hormones per se,
    0:04:27 although I do find the results
    0:04:28 really interesting.
    0:04:30 I chose it because
    0:04:32 I wanted to just emphasize
    0:04:34 or underscore the fact
    0:04:35 that chemicals that are made
    0:04:36 by other individuals
    0:04:38 are powerfully modulating
    0:04:40 our internal state.
    0:04:42 And that’s something
    0:04:43 that most of us don’t appreciate.
    0:04:45 I think most of us
    0:04:46 can appreciate the fact
    0:04:48 that if we smell something putrid,
    0:04:49 we tend to retract
    0:04:51 or if we smell something delicious,
    0:04:52 we tend to lean into it.
    0:04:54 But there are all these ways
    0:04:55 in which chemicals
    0:04:56 are affecting our biology
    0:04:59 and interpersonal communication
    0:05:00 using chemicals
    0:05:01 is not something
    0:05:03 that we hear that often about,
    0:05:05 but it’s super interesting.
    0:05:06 So let’s talk about smell
    0:05:07 and what smell is
    0:05:08 and how it works.
    0:05:09 I’m going to make this very basic,
    0:05:11 but I am going to touch
    0:05:12 on some of the core elements
    0:05:13 of the neurobiology.
    0:05:15 So here’s how smell works.
    0:05:17 As many of you know,
    0:05:18 I’ve been taking AG1 daily
    0:05:20 for more than 13 years.
    0:05:20 However,
    0:05:22 I’ve now found
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    0:05:24 vitamin mineral probiotic drink.
    0:05:26 That new and better drink
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    0:05:30 which just launched this month.
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    0:05:32 from AG1
    0:05:33 is a more advanced,
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    0:05:36 that I’ve been taking
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    0:05:38 It includes
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    0:05:41 and enhanced probiotics.
    0:05:43 The next gen formula
    0:05:44 is based on exciting new research
    0:05:46 on the effects of probiotics
    0:05:47 on the gut microbiome.
    0:05:48 And it now includes
    0:05:49 several specific
    0:05:50 clinically studied
    0:05:51 probiotic strains
    0:05:51 that have been shown
    0:05:52 to support
    0:05:53 both digestive health
    0:05:54 and immune system health,
    0:05:55 as well as to improve
    0:05:56 bowel regularity
    0:05:57 and to reduce bloating.
    0:05:59 As someone who’s been involved
    0:06:00 in research science
    0:06:01 for more than three decades
    0:06:02 and in health and fitness
    0:06:03 for equally as long,
    0:06:04 I’m constantly looking
    0:06:05 for the best tools
    0:06:06 to improve my mental health,
    0:06:07 physical health,
    0:06:08 and performance.
    0:06:09 I discovered
    0:06:10 and started taking AG1
    0:06:11 way back in 2012,
    0:06:14 long before I ever had a podcast
    0:06:15 and I’ve been taking it
    0:06:16 every day since.
    0:06:18 I find that it greatly improves
    0:06:19 all aspects of my health.
    0:06:20 I just feel so much better
    0:06:21 when I take it
    0:06:22 and I attribute my ability
    0:06:24 to consistently work long hours
    0:06:25 over all these years
    0:06:26 while also maintaining
    0:06:27 a full life,
    0:06:28 having tons of energy,
    0:06:29 sleeping well,
    0:06:30 not getting sick,
    0:06:30 et cetera,
    0:06:32 in large part to AG1.
    0:06:33 And of course,
    0:06:34 I do a lot of things.
    0:06:34 I exercise,
    0:06:35 I eat right,
    0:06:35 et cetera,
    0:06:37 but with each passing year,
    0:06:37 and by the way,
    0:06:39 I’m turning 50 this September,
    0:06:40 I continue to feel better
    0:06:41 and better
    0:06:41 and I attribute
    0:06:43 a lot of that to AG1.
    0:06:44 AG1 uses the highest
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    0:06:46 in the right combinations
    0:06:47 and they’re constantly
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    0:06:50 without increasing the cost.
    0:06:51 So I’m honored to have them
    0:06:52 as a sponsor
    0:06:53 of this podcast.
    0:06:55 If you’d like to try AG1,
    0:06:55 you can go to
    0:06:57 drinkag1.com
    0:06:58 slash Huberman
    0:06:59 to claim a special offer.
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    0:07:17 Smell starts with sniffing.
    0:07:19 Now that might come
    0:07:20 as no surprise,
    0:07:22 but no volatile chemicals
    0:07:23 can enter our nose
    0:07:25 unless we inhale them.
    0:07:26 if our nose is occluded
    0:07:29 or if we’re actively exhaling,
    0:07:31 it’s much more difficult
    0:07:33 for smells to enter our nose,
    0:07:34 which is why people cover their nose
    0:07:36 when something smells bad.
    0:07:40 Now, the way that these volatile odors
    0:07:41 come into the nose
    0:07:41 is interesting.
    0:07:44 The nose has a mucosal lining,
    0:07:45 mucus,
    0:07:47 that is designed to trap things,
    0:07:48 to actually bring things in
    0:07:50 and get stuck there.
    0:07:52 At the base of your brain,
    0:07:54 so you could actually imagine this
    0:07:55 or if you wanted,
    0:07:57 you could touch the roof of your mouth
    0:07:58 but right above the mouth,
    0:08:01 about two centimeters
    0:08:02 is your olfactory bulb.
    0:08:03 The olfactory bulb
    0:08:04 is a collection of neurons
    0:08:05 and those neurons
    0:08:06 actually extend
    0:08:08 out of the skull,
    0:08:09 out of your skull,
    0:08:10 into your nose,
    0:08:12 into the mucosal lining.
    0:08:13 So what this means
    0:08:14 in kind of a literal sense
    0:08:16 is that you have neurons
    0:08:19 that extend their little dendrites
    0:08:21 and axillary-like things,
    0:08:22 their little processes,
    0:08:23 as we call them,
    0:08:24 out into the mucus
    0:08:26 and they respond
    0:08:28 to different odorant compounds.
    0:08:30 Now, the olfactory neurons
    0:08:32 also send a branch
    0:08:33 deeper into the brain
    0:08:35 and they split off
    0:08:38 into three different paths.
    0:08:40 So one path
    0:08:41 is for what we call
    0:08:43 innate odor responses.
    0:08:46 So you have some hardwired aspects
    0:08:47 to the way
    0:08:48 that you smell the world
    0:08:49 that were there
    0:08:51 from the day you were born
    0:08:52 and that will be there
    0:08:53 until the day you die.
    0:08:56 These are the pathways
    0:08:57 and the neurons
    0:08:58 that respond to things
    0:08:59 like smoke,
    0:09:01 which as you can imagine,
    0:09:03 there’s a highly adaptive function
    0:09:04 to being able to detect
    0:09:05 burning things
    0:09:07 because burning things
    0:09:08 generally means lack of safety
    0:09:10 or impending threat
    0:09:10 of some kind.
    0:09:13 It calls for action
    0:09:14 and indeed,
    0:09:15 these neurons project
    0:09:16 to a central area of the brain
    0:09:18 called the amygdala,
    0:09:19 which is often discussed
    0:09:20 in terms of fear,
    0:09:21 but it’s really fear
    0:09:22 and threat detection.
    0:09:24 You also have neurons
    0:09:25 in your nose
    0:09:26 that respond to odorants
    0:09:28 or combinations of odorants
    0:09:30 that evoke a sense
    0:09:31 of desire
    0:09:32 and what we call
    0:09:34 appetitive behaviors,
    0:09:35 approach behaviors
    0:09:35 that make you want
    0:09:37 to move toward something.
    0:09:38 So when you smell
    0:09:39 a delicious cookie
    0:09:42 or some dish
    0:09:43 that’s really savory
    0:09:44 that you really like,
    0:09:45 that’s because of these
    0:09:46 innate pathways,
    0:09:47 these pathways
    0:09:48 that require
    0:09:49 no learning whatsoever.
    0:09:50 Now,
    0:09:51 some of the pathways
    0:09:52 from the nose,
    0:09:53 these olfactory neurons
    0:09:54 into the brain
    0:09:55 are involved
    0:09:56 in learned associations
    0:09:58 with odors.
    0:09:59 Many people
    0:10:02 have this experience
    0:10:04 that they can remember
    0:10:05 the smell
    0:10:07 of their grandmother’s home
    0:10:08 or the smell
    0:10:10 of particular items
    0:10:10 baking
    0:10:13 or on the stove
    0:10:15 in a particular environment.
    0:10:16 Typically,
    0:10:16 these memories
    0:10:17 tend to be
    0:10:18 of a kind of nurturing sort
    0:10:19 of feeling safe
    0:10:20 and protected,
    0:10:22 but one of the reasons
    0:10:24 why olfaction,
    0:10:24 smell,
    0:10:26 is so closely tied
    0:10:26 to memory
    0:10:27 is because olfaction
    0:10:29 is the most ancient sense
    0:10:30 that we have.
    0:10:31 So we have pathway
    0:10:34 for innate responses
    0:10:34 and a pathway
    0:10:35 for learned responses.
    0:10:37 And then we have
    0:10:38 this other pathway
    0:10:39 and in humans,
    0:10:40 it’s a little bit controversial
    0:10:41 as to whether or not
    0:10:42 it sits truly separate
    0:10:44 from the standard
    0:10:45 olfactory system
    0:10:46 or whether or not
    0:10:47 it’s its own system
    0:10:49 embedded in there,
    0:10:49 but that they call
    0:10:50 the accessory
    0:10:52 olfactory pathway.
    0:10:54 Accessory olfactory pathway
    0:10:56 is what in other animals
    0:10:57 is responsible
    0:10:59 for true pheromone effects.
    0:11:00 For example,
    0:11:02 in rodents
    0:11:04 and in some primates
    0:11:06 including mandrills.
    0:11:07 If you’ve ever seen a mandrel,
    0:11:07 they have these like
    0:11:09 big beak noses things.
    0:11:09 You may have seen them
    0:11:10 at the zoo.
    0:11:10 Look them up
    0:11:11 if you haven’t seen them already.
    0:11:13 M-A-N-D-R-I-L-S.
    0:11:14 Mandrills.
    0:11:17 There are strong pheromone effects.
    0:11:18 Some of those include
    0:11:20 things like
    0:11:21 if you take
    0:11:23 a pregnant female rodent
    0:11:24 or mandrel,
    0:11:26 you take away
    0:11:26 the father
    0:11:28 that created
    0:11:30 those fetuses
    0:11:31 or fetus
    0:11:33 and you introduce
    0:11:34 the scent
    0:11:35 of the urine
    0:11:37 or the fur
    0:11:38 of a novel
    0:11:39 male,
    0:11:41 she will spontaneously
    0:11:41 abort
    0:11:42 or miscarry
    0:11:43 those fetuses.
    0:11:45 It’s a very powerful effect.
    0:11:46 Another example
    0:11:47 of a pheromone effect
    0:11:48 is called
    0:11:49 the Vandenberg effect
    0:11:50 named after
    0:11:50 the person
    0:11:52 who discovered this effect
    0:11:52 where you take
    0:11:54 a female
    0:11:55 of a given species
    0:11:56 that has not
    0:11:57 entered puberty,
    0:11:59 you expose her
    0:12:00 to the scent
    0:12:01 or the urine
    0:12:03 from a sexually
    0:12:04 competent,
    0:12:05 meaning post-pubertal
    0:12:05 male,
    0:12:08 and she spontaneously
    0:12:09 goes into
    0:12:10 puberty earlier.
    0:12:11 So something about
    0:12:11 the scent
    0:12:12 triggers something
    0:12:13 through this
    0:12:15 accessory olfactory system.
    0:12:15 This is a true
    0:12:16 pheromonal effect
    0:12:18 and creates
    0:12:19 ovulation,
    0:12:19 right,
    0:12:20 and menstruation
    0:12:21 or in rodents,
    0:12:22 it’s an estrous cycle,
    0:12:23 not a menstrual cycle.
    0:12:24 So
    0:12:26 this is
    0:12:27 not to say
    0:12:28 that the exact same
    0:12:28 things happen
    0:12:29 in humans.
    0:12:29 In humans,
    0:12:30 as I mentioned earlier,
    0:12:32 there are chemical sensing
    0:12:33 between individuals
    0:12:34 that may be
    0:12:34 independent
    0:12:35 of the nose,
    0:12:37 but those are
    0:12:38 basically the three paths
    0:12:39 by which smells,
    0:12:41 odors impact us.
    0:12:42 So I want to talk
    0:12:43 about the act
    0:12:44 of smelling.
    0:12:45 And if
    0:12:46 you are not somebody
    0:12:47 who’s very interested
    0:12:48 in smell,
    0:12:49 but you are somebody
    0:12:50 who’s interested
    0:12:51 interested in making
    0:12:52 your brain work better,
    0:12:53 learning faster,
    0:12:54 remembering more things,
    0:12:56 this next little segment
    0:12:57 is for you
    0:12:58 because it turns out
    0:12:59 that how you smell,
    0:13:00 meaning the act
    0:13:01 of smelling,
    0:13:02 not how good
    0:13:02 or bad you smell,
    0:13:04 but the act
    0:13:05 of smelling,
    0:13:06 sniffing,
    0:13:07 and inhalation
    0:13:08 powerfully impacts
    0:13:09 how your brain
    0:13:10 functions
    0:13:11 and what you can learn
    0:13:12 and what you can’t learn.
    0:13:13 Gnome Sobel’s group
    0:13:15 originally at UC Berkeley
    0:13:16 and then at the
    0:13:17 Weitzman Institute
    0:13:19 has published
    0:13:20 a number of papers
    0:13:21 that I’d like
    0:13:22 to discuss today.
    0:13:23 One of them,
    0:13:25 human non-olfactory
    0:13:26 cognition
    0:13:27 phase locked
    0:13:28 with inhalation.
    0:13:28 This was published
    0:13:30 in Nature Human Behavior,
    0:13:31 an excellent journal.
    0:13:33 As we inhale,
    0:13:35 what this paper shows
    0:13:35 is that
    0:13:37 the level of alertness
    0:13:39 goes up in the brain.
    0:13:40 and this makes sense
    0:13:42 because as the most primitive
    0:13:44 and primordial sense
    0:13:46 by which we interact
    0:13:46 with our environment
    0:13:47 and bring chemicals
    0:13:49 into our system
    0:13:51 and detect our environment,
    0:13:54 inhaling is a cue
    0:13:56 for the rest of the brain
    0:13:57 to essentially
    0:13:58 to pay attention
    0:13:59 to what’s happening,
    0:14:01 not just to the odors.
    0:14:03 As the name of this paper suggests,
    0:14:05 human non-olfactory
    0:14:06 cognition,
    0:14:07 phase locked
    0:14:08 with inhalation.
    0:14:09 What that means
    0:14:09 is that
    0:14:10 the act
    0:14:12 of inhaling itself
    0:14:13 wakes up the brain.
    0:14:14 It’s not about
    0:14:15 what you’re perceiving
    0:14:16 or what you’re smelling
    0:14:18 and indeed
    0:14:19 sniffing
    0:14:20 as an action,
    0:14:21 inhaling
    0:14:22 as an action
    0:14:23 has a powerful effect
    0:14:24 on your ability
    0:14:25 to be alert,
    0:14:26 your ability
    0:14:27 to attend,
    0:14:28 to focus,
    0:14:29 and your ability
    0:14:30 to remember information.
    0:14:32 When we exhale,
    0:14:34 the brain
    0:14:35 goes through
    0:14:35 a subtle
    0:14:36 but nonetheless
    0:14:37 significant dip
    0:14:38 in level
    0:14:39 of arousal
    0:14:40 and ability
    0:14:40 to learn.
    0:14:41 How should you
    0:14:42 use this knowledge?
    0:14:43 Well,
    0:14:45 you could imagine,
    0:14:45 and I think
    0:14:46 this would be beneficial
    0:14:48 for most people,
    0:14:50 to focus on nasal breathing
    0:14:51 while doing
    0:14:52 any kind of focused work
    0:14:53 that doesn’t require
    0:14:54 that you speak
    0:14:55 or eat
    0:14:56 or ingest something.
    0:14:58 There is a separate paper
    0:14:58 published in
    0:15:00 the Journal of Neuroscience
    0:15:01 that showed that
    0:15:01 indeed,
    0:15:02 if subjects,
    0:15:03 human subjects,
    0:15:03 are restricted
    0:15:04 connected to breathing
    0:15:05 through their nose,
    0:15:07 they learn better
    0:15:08 than if they
    0:15:09 have the option
    0:15:09 of breathing
    0:15:10 through their mouth
    0:15:12 or a combination
    0:15:12 of their nose
    0:15:13 and mouth.
    0:15:13 Now,
    0:15:14 there are other ways
    0:15:15 to wake up your brain
    0:15:16 more as well.
    0:15:17 For instance,
    0:15:18 the use of smelling salts.
    0:15:19 I’m not recommending
    0:15:20 that you do this necessarily,
    0:15:22 but there are excellent
    0:15:23 peer-reviewed data
    0:15:25 showing that indeed,
    0:15:27 if you use smelling salts,
    0:15:28 which are mostly
    0:15:28 of the sort
    0:15:31 that include ammonia.
    0:15:32 Ammonia is a very
    0:15:33 toxic scent,
    0:15:35 but it’s toxic
    0:15:35 in a way
    0:15:36 that triggers
    0:15:38 this innate pathway,
    0:15:39 the pathway
    0:15:39 from the nose
    0:15:40 to the amygdala
    0:15:41 and wakes up
    0:15:41 the brain and body
    0:15:42 in a major way.
    0:15:43 This is why
    0:15:44 they use smelling salts
    0:15:45 when people pass out.
    0:15:46 They work
    0:15:47 because they trigger
    0:15:48 the fear
    0:15:50 and kind of overall
    0:15:51 arousal systems
    0:15:51 of the brain.
    0:15:52 This is why
    0:15:52 I think most people
    0:15:53 probably shouldn’t use
    0:15:54 ammonia or smelling salts
    0:15:55 to try and wake up,
    0:15:56 but they really do work.
    0:15:58 Now, inhaling through your nose
    0:15:59 and doing nasal breathing,
    0:16:00 it’s going to be
    0:16:01 a more subtle version
    0:16:03 of waking up your system,
    0:16:05 of alerting your brain overall.
    0:16:08 And for those of you
    0:16:09 that are interested
    0:16:10 in having a richer,
    0:16:13 a more deep connection
    0:16:13 to the things
    0:16:15 that you smell and taste,
    0:16:16 practicing or enhancing
    0:16:17 your sense of sniffing,
    0:16:18 your ability to sniff
    0:16:19 might sound like
    0:16:20 a kind of ridiculous protocol,
    0:16:21 but it’s actually
    0:16:22 a kind of fun
    0:16:23 and cool experiment
    0:16:24 that you can do.
    0:16:24 You just do
    0:16:25 the simple experiment
    0:16:26 of taking,
    0:16:26 for instance,
    0:16:27 an orange,
    0:16:28 you smell it,
    0:16:30 do 10 or 15 inhales,
    0:16:32 followed by exhales,
    0:16:32 of course,
    0:16:33 or just through the nose.
    0:16:35 I’m not going to do
    0:16:35 all 10 or 15
    0:16:37 and then smell it again.
    0:16:37 And you’ll notice
    0:16:38 that your perception
    0:16:39 of that smell,
    0:16:40 the kind of richness
    0:16:41 of that smell
    0:16:43 will be significantly increased.
    0:16:44 So you can actually
    0:16:46 have a heightened experience
    0:16:47 of something.
    0:16:47 And that of course
    0:16:48 will also be true
    0:16:49 for the taste system.
    0:16:50 I’d like to take
    0:16:51 a quick break
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    0:17:23 that you’re getting
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    0:17:27 that I’m getting
    0:17:28 proper amounts of both,
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    0:17:33 in the morning
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    0:17:35 in the morning.
    0:17:36 I’ll also drink
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    0:18:07 You also can really
    0:18:09 train your sense of smell
    0:18:10 to get much, much better.
    0:18:12 No other system
    0:18:13 that I’m aware of
    0:18:14 in our body
    0:18:16 is as amenable
    0:18:17 to these kinds
    0:18:19 of behavioral training shifts
    0:18:19 and allow them
    0:18:20 to happen so quickly.
    0:18:21 In fact,
    0:18:22 how well we can smell
    0:18:23 and taste things
    0:18:24 is actually
    0:18:26 a very strong indication
    0:18:27 of our brain health.
    0:18:29 so our olfactory neurons,
    0:18:31 these neurons in our nose
    0:18:32 that detect odors
    0:18:34 are really unique
    0:18:36 among other brain neurons
    0:18:39 because they get replenished
    0:18:40 throughout life.
    0:18:42 They don’t just regenerate,
    0:18:44 but they get replenished.
    0:18:45 So regeneration
    0:18:47 is when something is damaged
    0:18:48 and it regrows.
    0:18:49 These neurons
    0:18:51 are constantly turning over
    0:18:52 throughout our lifespan.
    0:18:53 They’re constantly
    0:18:53 being replenished.
    0:18:54 they’re dying off
    0:18:55 and they’re being
    0:18:56 replaced by new ones.
    0:18:58 This is really interesting
    0:19:00 because other neurons
    0:19:01 in your cortex,
    0:19:02 in your retina,
    0:19:04 in your cerebellum,
    0:19:05 they do not do this.
    0:19:06 They are not continually
    0:19:07 replenished throughout life.
    0:19:08 But these neurons,
    0:19:10 these olfactory neurons are,
    0:19:11 they are special.
    0:19:13 and there are a number
    0:19:14 of things
    0:19:15 that seem to increase
    0:19:16 the amount
    0:19:18 of olfactory neuron neurogenesis.
    0:19:19 There is evidence
    0:19:21 that exercise,
    0:19:22 blood flow,
    0:19:23 can increase
    0:19:24 olfactory neuron neurogenesis.
    0:19:25 Although those data
    0:19:27 are fewer
    0:19:28 in comparison to things
    0:19:30 like social interactions
    0:19:32 or actually interacting
    0:19:34 with odorants
    0:19:35 of different kinds.
    0:19:36 But what I’d like to do
    0:19:36 is empower you
    0:19:37 with tools
    0:19:38 that will allow you
    0:19:39 to keep these systems
    0:19:39 tuned up.
    0:19:40 Last time we talked
    0:19:41 about tuning up
    0:19:42 and keeping your visual system
    0:19:43 tuned up and healthy
    0:19:45 regardless of age.
    0:19:46 Here we’re talking about
    0:19:47 really enhancing
    0:19:50 your olfactory abilities,
    0:19:51 your taste abilities
    0:19:53 as well by interacting
    0:19:55 a lot with odors,
    0:19:57 preferably positive odors
    0:19:59 and sniffing more,
    0:20:00 inhaling more,
    0:20:02 which almost sounds crazy.
    0:20:03 But now you understand why
    0:20:04 even though it might sound crazy,
    0:20:05 it’s grounded
    0:20:07 in real mechanistic biology
    0:20:08 of how the brain wakes up
    0:20:10 and responds to these chemicals.
    0:20:12 Now, speaking of brain injury,
    0:20:13 olfactory dysfunction
    0:20:15 is a common theme
    0:20:16 in traumatic brain injury
    0:20:17 for the following reason.
    0:20:18 These olfactory neurons,
    0:20:19 as I mentioned,
    0:20:20 extend wires
    0:20:21 into the mucosa
    0:20:23 of the nose,
    0:20:25 but they also extend
    0:20:26 a wire up into the skull
    0:20:27 and they extend
    0:20:28 up into the skull
    0:20:28 through what’s called
    0:20:29 the cribriform plate.
    0:20:30 It’s like a Swiss cheese
    0:20:31 type plate
    0:20:33 where they’re going through
    0:20:34 and if you get a head hit,
    0:20:36 that bone,
    0:20:37 the cribriform plate
    0:20:39 shears those little wires off
    0:20:41 and those neurons die.
    0:20:43 Now, eventually they’ll be replaced,
    0:20:45 but there’s a phenomenon
    0:20:46 by which concussion
    0:20:48 and the severity of concussion
    0:20:49 and the recovery
    0:20:49 from a head injury
    0:20:51 can actually be gauged
    0:20:52 in part,
    0:20:52 in part,
    0:20:53 not in whole,
    0:20:54 but in part
    0:20:55 by how well
    0:20:56 or fully
    0:20:57 one recovers
    0:20:58 their sense of smell.
    0:20:59 So if you’re somebody
    0:21:00 that unfortunately
    0:21:01 has suffered a concussion,
    0:21:02 your sense of smell
    0:21:04 is one readout
    0:21:05 by which you might evaluate
    0:21:06 whether or not
    0:21:06 you’re regaining
    0:21:08 some of your sensory performance.
    0:21:08 Of course,
    0:21:09 there will be others
    0:21:10 like balance and cognition
    0:21:11 and sleep, etc.
    0:21:12 But I’d like to refer you
    0:21:14 to a really nice paper
    0:21:16 which is entitled
    0:21:17 Olfactory Dysfunction
    0:21:18 in Traumatic Brain Injury,
    0:21:20 The Role of Neurogenesis.
    0:21:21 The first author
    0:21:21 is Marin,
    0:21:23 M-A-R-I-N.
    0:21:25 The paper was published
    0:21:26 in Current Allergy
    0:21:27 and Asthma Report.
    0:21:28 This is 2020.
    0:21:29 I spent some time
    0:21:29 with this paper.
    0:21:30 It’s quite good.
    0:21:31 It’s a review article.
    0:21:32 I like reviews
    0:21:34 if they’re peer-reviewed reviews.
    0:21:36 What they discuss is
    0:21:37 and I’ll just read here briefly
    0:21:38 because they said it
    0:21:38 better than I could.
    0:21:40 Olfactory functioning disturbances
    0:21:40 are common
    0:21:42 following traumatic brain injury,
    0:21:42 TBI
    0:21:44 and can have a significant impact
    0:21:45 on the quality of life
    0:21:46 although there’s no standard
    0:21:47 treatment for patients
    0:21:50 with the loss of smell.
    0:21:51 Now I’m paraphrasing
    0:21:53 post-injury.
    0:21:54 Olfactory training
    0:21:56 has shown promise
    0:21:58 for beneficial effects
    0:22:00 but what does this mean?
    0:22:01 This means that
    0:22:02 if you’ve had a head injury
    0:22:04 or repeated head injuries
    0:22:07 that enhancing your sense of smell
    0:22:07 is one way
    0:22:09 by which you can create
    0:22:10 new neurons
    0:22:10 and now you know
    0:22:11 how to enhance
    0:22:12 your sense of smell
    0:22:13 by interacting with things
    0:22:14 that have an odor
    0:22:15 very closely
    0:22:17 and by essentially
    0:22:18 inhaling more,
    0:22:19 focusing on the inhale
    0:22:20 to wake up the brain
    0:22:21 and to really focus
    0:22:22 on some of the nuance
    0:22:23 of those smells.
    0:22:24 as a last point
    0:22:25 about specific
    0:22:27 odors and compounds
    0:22:28 that can increase
    0:22:29 arousal and alertness
    0:22:30 and this was simply
    0:22:31 through sniffing them
    0:22:32 not through ingesting them.
    0:22:34 There are data,
    0:22:35 believe it or not,
    0:22:36 there are good data
    0:22:37 on peppermint
    0:22:39 and the smell of peppermint.
    0:22:41 Minty type scents,
    0:22:43 whether you like them or not,
    0:22:45 will increase attention
    0:22:47 and they can create
    0:22:49 the same sort of arousal response
    0:22:51 although not as intensely
    0:22:52 or as dramatically
    0:22:53 as ammonia salts can
    0:22:54 for instance.
    0:22:55 By the way,
    0:22:56 please don’t go sniff
    0:22:56 real ammonia.
    0:22:57 You could actually damage
    0:22:59 your olfactory epithelium
    0:22:59 if you do that
    0:23:01 too close to the ammonia.
    0:23:01 If you’re going to use
    0:23:02 smelling salts,
    0:23:03 be sure you work with someone
    0:23:05 or you know what you’re getting
    0:23:06 and how you’re using this.
    0:23:07 You can damage
    0:23:08 your olfactory pathway
    0:23:09 in ways that are pretty severe.
    0:23:11 You can also damage your vision.
    0:23:12 If you’ve ever teared up
    0:23:13 because you inhaled something
    0:23:14 that was really noxious,
    0:23:17 that is not a good thing
    0:23:18 but it means that
    0:23:19 you have irritated
    0:23:21 the mucosal lining
    0:23:23 and possibly even
    0:23:24 the surfaces of your eyes
    0:23:25 so please be very,
    0:23:25 very careful.
    0:23:28 Scents like peppermint,
    0:23:31 like these ammonia smelling salts,
    0:23:32 the reason they wake you up
    0:23:33 is because they trigger
    0:23:34 specific olfactory neurons
    0:23:36 that communicate
    0:23:37 with the specific centers
    0:23:37 of the brain,
    0:23:38 namely the amygdala
    0:23:40 and associated neural circuitry
    0:23:40 and pathways
    0:23:42 that trigger alertness
    0:23:43 of the same sort
    0:23:44 that a cold shower
    0:23:45 or an ice bath
    0:23:47 or a sudden surprise
    0:23:49 or a stressful text message
    0:23:49 would evoke.
    0:23:50 Remember,
    0:23:52 the systems of your body
    0:23:53 that produce arousal
    0:23:55 and alertness
    0:23:55 and attention
    0:23:56 and that cue you
    0:23:57 for optimal learning,
    0:23:58 aka focus,
    0:24:00 those are very general mechanisms.
    0:24:01 They involve
    0:24:02 very basic molecules
    0:24:03 like adrenaline
    0:24:03 and epinephrine.
    0:24:04 Same thing actually,
    0:24:05 adrenaline and epinephrine.
    0:24:08 The number of stimuli,
    0:24:09 whether it’s peppermint
    0:24:10 or ammonia
    0:24:12 or a loud blast,
    0:24:14 the number of stimuli
    0:24:15 that can evoke
    0:24:16 that adrenaline response
    0:24:18 and that wake-up response
    0:24:19 are near infinite
    0:24:21 and that’s the beauty
    0:24:22 of your nervous system.
    0:24:22 It was designed
    0:24:24 to take any variety
    0:24:25 of different stimuli,
    0:24:26 place them into categories
    0:24:27 and then evoke
    0:24:29 different categories
    0:24:31 of very general responses.
    0:24:32 Now you know a lot
    0:24:33 about olfaction
    0:24:33 and how the sense
    0:24:34 of smell works.
    0:24:35 Let’s talk about taste,
    0:24:37 meaning how we sense chemicals
    0:24:38 in food
    0:24:39 and in drink.
    0:24:42 there are essentially five,
    0:24:44 but scientists now believe
    0:24:45 there may be six
    0:24:47 things that we taste
    0:24:49 alone or in combination.
    0:24:52 They are sweet tastes,
    0:24:54 salty tastes,
    0:24:55 bitter tastes,
    0:24:57 sour tastes,
    0:25:00 and umami taste.
    0:25:01 Most of you have probably
    0:25:03 heard of umami by now.
    0:25:05 It’s U-M-A-M-I.
    0:25:08 Umami is actually
    0:25:09 the name for a particular
    0:25:10 receptor that you express
    0:25:11 on your tongue
    0:25:15 that detects savory tastes.
    0:25:17 Each one has a particular
    0:25:18 group of neurons
    0:25:19 in your mouth,
    0:25:21 in your tongue,
    0:25:22 believe it or not,
    0:25:23 that responds
    0:25:25 to particular chemicals
    0:25:26 and particular chemical structures.
    0:25:29 It is a total myth,
    0:25:30 complete fiction
    0:25:31 that different parts
    0:25:32 of your tongue
    0:25:33 harbor
    0:25:34 different taste receptors.
    0:25:35 You know,
    0:25:36 that high school
    0:25:37 textbook diagram
    0:25:37 that, you know,
    0:25:38 sweet is in one part
    0:25:39 of the tongue
    0:25:40 and sour is in another
    0:25:41 and bitter is in another.
    0:25:42 They are completely
    0:25:43 intermixed
    0:25:44 along your tongue.
    0:25:45 So all these receptors
    0:25:45 in your tongue
    0:25:46 make up what
    0:25:48 are called
    0:25:48 the neurons
    0:25:49 that give rise
    0:25:50 to a nerve,
    0:25:51 a collection
    0:25:52 of wires,
    0:25:52 nerve bundles
    0:25:54 of what’s called
    0:25:55 the gustatory nerve.
    0:25:56 The gustatory nerve
    0:25:57 from the tongue
    0:25:58 goes to the nucleus
    0:25:59 of the solitary tract
    0:26:01 and then to the thalamus
    0:26:02 and to insular cortex.
    0:26:03 And it is an insular cortex,
    0:26:04 this region of our cortex
    0:26:05 that we sort out
    0:26:07 and make sense of
    0:26:07 and perceive
    0:26:08 the various tastes.
    0:26:10 Now, it’s amazing
    0:26:12 because just taking
    0:26:13 a little bit of sugar
    0:26:14 or something sour,
    0:26:15 like a little bit
    0:26:15 of lemon juice
    0:26:16 and touching it
    0:26:17 to the tongue
    0:26:19 within 100 milliseconds,
    0:26:20 right?
    0:26:22 Just 100 milliseconds,
    0:26:23 far less than one second,
    0:26:25 you can immediately
    0:26:25 distinguish,
    0:26:26 ah, that’s sour,
    0:26:27 that’s sweet,
    0:26:28 that’s bitter,
    0:26:29 that’s umami.
    0:26:31 And that’s
    0:26:32 an assessment
    0:26:33 that’s made
    0:26:34 by the cortex.
    0:26:35 Now,
    0:26:36 what do these
    0:26:38 different five receptors
    0:26:39 encode for?
    0:26:40 Well, sweet, salty,
    0:26:41 bitter, umami, sour,
    0:26:41 but what are they
    0:26:43 really looking for?
    0:26:44 What are they sensing?
    0:26:45 Well, sweet stuff
    0:26:47 signals the presence
    0:26:47 of energy,
    0:26:48 of sugars.
    0:26:49 And while we’re all
    0:26:51 trying or we’re told
    0:26:51 that we should eat
    0:26:52 less sugar
    0:26:54 for a variety
    0:26:54 of reasons,
    0:26:57 the ability
    0:26:57 to sense
    0:26:58 whether or not
    0:26:58 a food
    0:27:00 has rapid
    0:27:01 energy source
    0:27:02 or could give rise
    0:27:02 to glucose
    0:27:03 is essential.
    0:27:03 So we have
    0:27:04 sweet receptors.
    0:27:05 The salty
    0:27:06 receptors,
    0:27:07 these neurons
    0:27:08 are trying to sense
    0:27:09 whether or not
    0:27:10 there are electrolytes
    0:27:12 in a given
    0:27:13 food or drink.
    0:27:14 Electrolytes
    0:27:15 are vitally important
    0:27:16 for the function
    0:27:17 of our nervous system
    0:27:17 and for our entire
    0:27:18 body.
    0:27:18 Bitter receptors
    0:27:20 are there
    0:27:21 to make sure
    0:27:22 we don’t ingest
    0:27:23 things that are
    0:27:23 poisonous.
    0:27:24 The bitter receptors
    0:27:26 create a,
    0:27:26 what we call
    0:27:27 labeled line,
    0:27:28 a unique trajectory
    0:27:30 to the neurons
    0:27:31 of the brainstem
    0:27:31 that control
    0:27:33 the gag reflex.
    0:27:35 If we taste
    0:27:36 something very bitter,
    0:27:38 it automatically
    0:27:39 triggers the gag reflex.
    0:27:41 Putrid smells
    0:27:42 will also evoke
    0:27:43 these same neurons.
    0:27:45 The umami receptor
    0:27:47 isn’t sensing
    0:27:48 savory
    0:27:49 because the body
    0:27:50 loves savory.
    0:27:51 It’s because
    0:27:51 savory
    0:27:52 is a signal
    0:27:53 for the presence
    0:27:54 of amino acids.
    0:27:55 The presence
    0:27:56 of amino acids
    0:27:58 in our gut
    0:27:58 and in our
    0:27:59 digestive system
    0:28:00 and the presence
    0:28:01 of fatty acids
    0:28:02 is essential.
    0:28:03 The sour receptor,
    0:28:04 why would we have
    0:28:05 a sour receptor?
    0:28:06 It’s there
    0:28:07 and we know
    0:28:08 it’s there
    0:28:09 to detect
    0:28:09 the presence
    0:28:10 of spoiled
    0:28:11 or fermented
    0:28:12 food.
    0:28:13 Fermented fruit
    0:28:14 can be poisonous,
    0:28:14 right?
    0:28:15 Alcohols
    0:28:16 are poisonous
    0:28:17 in many forms
    0:28:18 to our system
    0:28:19 and
    0:28:20 the sour
    0:28:21 receptor
    0:28:22 bearing neurons
    0:28:23 communicate
    0:28:24 to an area
    0:28:24 of the brainstem
    0:28:26 that evokes
    0:28:27 the pucker
    0:28:27 response,
    0:28:29 closing of the eyes
    0:28:29 and essentially
    0:28:31 shutting of the mouth
    0:28:32 and cringing away.
    0:28:33 Now,
    0:28:34 what’s the sixth
    0:28:35 sense
    0:28:36 within the taste system?
    0:28:37 Not sixth sense
    0:28:37 generally,
    0:28:38 but within the taste system.
    0:28:39 What’s this putative
    0:28:40 possible
    0:28:41 sixth receptor?
    0:28:43 There are now data
    0:28:44 to support
    0:28:45 the idea,
    0:28:46 although there’s still
    0:28:47 more work that needs
    0:28:47 to be done,
    0:28:48 that we also have
    0:28:49 receptors on our tongue
    0:28:51 that sense fat
    0:28:53 and that because fat
    0:28:54 is so vital
    0:28:56 for the function
    0:28:57 of our nervous system
    0:28:57 and the other organs
    0:28:58 of our body
    0:29:00 that we are sensing
    0:29:01 the fat content
    0:29:01 in food.
    0:29:02 I want to talk
    0:29:03 about the tongue
    0:29:04 and the mouth
    0:29:05 as an extension
    0:29:07 of your digestive tract.
    0:29:08 We are essentially
    0:29:09 a series of tubes
    0:29:10 and that tube
    0:29:11 starts with your mouth
    0:29:12 and heads down
    0:29:13 into your stomach
    0:29:14 and so
    0:29:16 that you would sense
    0:29:17 so much
    0:29:18 of the chemical
    0:29:18 constituents
    0:29:19 of the stuff
    0:29:20 that you might
    0:29:21 bring into your body
    0:29:22 or that you might
    0:29:22 want to expel
    0:29:23 and not swallow
    0:29:25 or not interact with
    0:29:25 by being able
    0:29:26 to smell it.
    0:29:27 Is it putrid?
    0:29:28 Does it smell good?
    0:29:30 Does it taste good?
    0:29:30 Is this safe?
    0:29:31 Is it salty?
    0:29:32 Is it so sour
    0:29:33 that it’s fermented
    0:29:34 and is going to poison me?
    0:29:35 Is it so bitter
    0:29:36 that it could poison me?
    0:29:38 Is it so savory
    0:29:40 that yes,
    0:29:40 I want more
    0:29:41 and more of this?
    0:29:42 Well, then you’d
    0:29:43 want to trigger dopamine.
    0:29:43 That’s all starting
    0:29:44 in the mouth.
    0:29:47 So you have to understand
    0:29:48 that you were equipped
    0:29:49 with this amazing
    0:29:51 chemical sensing apparatus
    0:29:53 we call your mouth
    0:29:54 and your tongue
    0:29:55 and those little bumps
    0:29:56 on your tongue
    0:29:56 that they call
    0:29:57 the papillae,
    0:29:58 those are not
    0:29:59 your taste buds.
    0:30:00 Surrounding those
    0:30:01 little papillae
    0:30:03 like little rivers
    0:30:04 are these little
    0:30:05 dents and indentations
    0:30:06 and what dents
    0:30:07 and indentations
    0:30:08 do in a tissue
    0:30:09 is they allow
    0:30:10 more surface area.
    0:30:10 They allow you
    0:30:12 to pack more receptors.
    0:30:13 So down in those grooves
    0:30:14 are where all
    0:30:15 these little neurons
    0:30:17 and their little processes
    0:30:18 are with these
    0:30:19 little receptors
    0:30:20 for sweet, salty,
    0:30:21 bitter, umami, sour
    0:30:22 and maybe fat as well.
    0:30:23 Remember,
    0:30:25 even though we can enjoy food
    0:30:26 and we can evolve
    0:30:27 our sense of what’s
    0:30:29 tasty or not tasty
    0:30:30 depending on life decisions,
    0:30:31 environmental changes,
    0:30:32 et cetera.
    0:30:33 The taste system,
    0:30:34 just like the olfactory system
    0:30:35 and the visual system
    0:30:36 was laid down
    0:30:38 for the purpose
    0:30:40 of moving towards
    0:30:40 things that are good
    0:30:41 for us
    0:30:41 and moving away
    0:30:42 from things
    0:30:43 that are bad for us.
    0:30:43 That’s the kind of
    0:30:44 core function
    0:30:45 of the nervous system.
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    0:32:39 Now I’d like to return
    0:32:41 to pheromones.
    0:32:42 As I mentioned earlier,
    0:32:44 true pheromonal effects
    0:32:45 are well-established
    0:32:45 in animals
    0:32:47 and one of the most
    0:32:49 remarkable pheromone effects
    0:32:50 that’s ever been described
    0:32:51 is one that actually
    0:32:51 I’ve mentioned before
    0:32:52 on this podcast,
    0:32:53 but I’ll mention again
    0:32:54 just briefly,
    0:32:55 which is the Coolidge effect.
    0:32:56 The Coolidge effect
    0:32:57 is the effect
    0:33:00 of a male
    0:33:00 of a given species.
    0:33:02 In most cases,
    0:33:03 it tended to be a rodent
    0:33:04 or a rooster
    0:33:06 mating
    0:33:08 and at some point
    0:33:10 reaching exhaustion
    0:33:11 or the inability
    0:33:12 to mate again
    0:33:13 because they just simply
    0:33:14 couldn’t for whatever reason.
    0:33:16 The Coolidge effect
    0:33:18 establishes that
    0:33:20 if you swap out
    0:33:21 the hen with a new hen
    0:33:23 or the female rat
    0:33:24 or mouse with a new one,
    0:33:26 then the rat
    0:33:27 or the rooster
    0:33:29 spontaneously regains
    0:33:30 their ability to mate.
    0:33:31 Somehow their vigor
    0:33:32 is returned.
    0:33:33 The refractory period
    0:33:34 after mating
    0:33:35 that normally occurs
    0:33:37 is abolished
    0:33:38 and they can mate again.
    0:33:39 But it turns out
    0:33:41 that females also will,
    0:33:43 female rodents
    0:33:44 will mate to exhaustion
    0:33:45 and at some point,
    0:33:46 at some point,
    0:33:46 excuse me,
    0:33:47 they will refuse
    0:33:48 to mate any longer
    0:33:50 unless you swap in
    0:33:50 a new male.
    0:33:52 And then because mating
    0:33:53 in rodents
    0:33:54 involves the female
    0:33:55 being receptive,
    0:33:55 there are a certain
    0:33:56 number of behaviors
    0:33:57 behaviors that mean
    0:33:57 that she,
    0:33:58 that tell you
    0:33:59 that she’s willing
    0:34:00 and wanting to mate,
    0:34:02 so-called lordosis reflex.
    0:34:06 Then if there’s a new male,
    0:34:08 she will spontaneously regain
    0:34:10 the lordosis reflex
    0:34:12 and the desire to mate.
    0:34:12 How do we know
    0:34:13 it’s a pheromonal effect?
    0:34:14 Well,
    0:34:15 this recovery
    0:34:16 of the desire
    0:34:17 and ability to mate
    0:34:18 both in males
    0:34:20 and in females
    0:34:21 can be evoked
    0:34:22 completely
    0:34:23 by the odor
    0:34:23 by the odor
    0:34:25 of a new male
    0:34:25 or female.
    0:34:26 It doesn’t even have
    0:34:27 to be the presentation
    0:34:28 of the actual animal.
    0:34:29 And that’s how you know
    0:34:29 that it’s not
    0:34:31 some visual interaction
    0:34:32 or some other interaction.
    0:34:33 It’s a pheromonal interaction.
    0:34:34 Now,
    0:34:35 as I mentioned earlier,
    0:34:36 pheromonal effects,
    0:34:39 humans have been debated
    0:34:40 for a long period of time.
    0:34:40 We are thought
    0:34:42 to have a vestigial,
    0:34:43 meaning a kind
    0:34:44 of shrunken down
    0:34:46 miniature
    0:34:48 accessory olfactory bulb
    0:34:49 called Jacobson’s organ
    0:34:51 or the vomeronasal organ.
    0:34:53 Some people don’t believe
    0:34:54 that Jacobson’s organ exists.
    0:34:55 Some people do.
    0:34:57 So there’s a little dents
    0:34:57 as you go up
    0:34:58 through your nasal passages
    0:34:59 and there is evidence
    0:35:00 of something
    0:35:02 that’s vomeronasal-like.
    0:35:04 Vomeronasal is the pheromonal organ.
    0:35:06 They call it Jacobson’s organ
    0:35:07 if it’s present in humans.
    0:35:09 Kind of tucked into
    0:35:10 some of the divots
    0:35:11 in the nasal passage.
    0:35:14 Even if that organ,
    0:35:15 Jacobson’s organ,
    0:35:16 isn’t there
    0:35:18 or is not responsible
    0:35:19 for the chemical signaling
    0:35:20 between individuals,
    0:35:22 there is chemical signaling
    0:35:23 between human beings.
    0:35:24 As I mentioned earlier,
    0:35:26 the effect of tears
    0:35:28 in suppressing
    0:35:29 the areas of the brain
    0:35:29 that are involved
    0:35:32 in sexual desire
    0:35:34 and testosterone of males.
    0:35:35 That’s a concrete result.
    0:35:37 It’s a very good result
    0:35:38 published by an excellent group.
    0:35:40 There is also evidence
    0:35:43 both for and against
    0:35:44 chemical signaling
    0:35:46 between females
    0:35:47 in terms of synchronization
    0:35:48 of menstrual cycles.
    0:35:50 Now, the original paper
    0:35:51 on this was published
    0:35:52 in the 1970s
    0:35:54 by McClintock.
    0:35:56 And it essentially said
    0:35:57 that when women
    0:35:58 live together
    0:35:59 in group housing,
    0:36:00 dormitories,
    0:36:01 and similar,
    0:36:02 that their menstrual cycles
    0:36:03 were synchronized
    0:36:04 and that was due to
    0:36:04 what was hypothesized
    0:36:06 to be pheromonal effects.
    0:36:07 over the years
    0:36:08 that study
    0:36:08 has been challenged
    0:36:09 many, many times.
    0:36:12 The more recent data
    0:36:13 point to the idea
    0:36:14 that there is
    0:36:15 chemical-chemical signaling
    0:36:16 between women
    0:36:18 in ways that impact
    0:36:18 the timing
    0:36:19 of the menstrual cycle.
    0:36:21 Is that a pheromonal effect?
    0:36:22 Well, by the strict definition
    0:36:23 of a pheromone,
    0:36:24 a molecule that’s released
    0:36:25 from one individual
    0:36:26 that impacts the biology
    0:36:27 of another individual,
    0:36:28 yes.
    0:36:28 It’s not clear
    0:36:30 what the chemical compound is.
    0:36:32 None of this surprises me.
    0:36:34 None of this should surprise you.
    0:36:35 it’s very clear
    0:36:35 that hormones
    0:36:36 have a profound effect
    0:36:37 on a large number
    0:36:39 of systems in our biology
    0:36:41 and that smell and taste
    0:36:42 and the ability
    0:36:43 to sense the chemical states
    0:36:44 of others,
    0:36:45 either consciously
    0:36:45 or subconsciously,
    0:36:47 have a profound influence
    0:36:47 on whether or not
    0:36:49 we might want to spend time
    0:36:49 with them,
    0:36:49 whether or not
    0:36:50 this is somebody
    0:36:51 that we’re pair-bonded with,
    0:36:52 whether or not
    0:36:52 this is somebody
    0:36:53 that we just met
    0:36:55 and don’t trust yet,
    0:36:56 things of this sort.
    0:36:58 And given what’s at stake
    0:37:00 in terms of reproductive biology,
    0:37:02 it makes so much sense
    0:37:04 that much of our biology
    0:37:06 is wired toward detecting
    0:37:07 and sensing whether or not
    0:37:08 things and people
    0:37:10 are things that we should
    0:37:11 approach or avoid.
    0:37:13 You and every other human
    0:37:14 from the time you’re born
    0:37:15 until the time you die
    0:37:18 are actively seeking out
    0:37:21 and sensing and evaluating
    0:37:23 the chemicals that come
    0:37:24 from other individuals.
    0:37:26 It’s a really nice study
    0:37:26 that was done
    0:37:29 by the Weitzman Institute,
    0:37:29 a group there,
    0:37:30 I think it was also
    0:37:31 Noam Sobel’s group,
    0:37:32 but another group as well,
    0:37:32 as I recall,
    0:37:35 looking at human-human interactions
    0:37:36 when they meet
    0:37:36 for the first time.
    0:37:38 It’s a remarkable study
    0:37:41 because what they found
    0:37:43 was people would reach out
    0:37:44 and shake hands.
    0:37:45 And what they observed
    0:37:48 was almost every time
    0:37:50 within just a few seconds
    0:37:52 of having shaken hands
    0:37:53 with this new individual,
    0:37:54 people will touch their eyes.
    0:37:56 they are taking chemicals
    0:37:58 from the skin contact
    0:37:59 and they are placing it
    0:38:01 on a mucosal membrane
    0:38:01 of some sort,
    0:38:02 typically not up their nose
    0:38:03 or in their mouth,
    0:38:04 typically on their eyes.
    0:38:05 Believe it or not,
    0:38:06 you’re marking other people
    0:38:07 when you shake their hand
    0:38:09 and they are then
    0:38:10 taking your mark
    0:38:11 and rubbing it
    0:38:13 on themselves subconsciously.
    0:38:14 So we all do
    0:38:15 these kinds of behaviors
    0:38:17 and now that you’re aware of it,
    0:38:18 you can watch for it
    0:38:18 in your environment,
    0:38:20 you can pay attention to people.
    0:38:21 We are evaluating
    0:38:23 the molecules on people’s breath.
    0:38:25 We are evaluating
    0:38:26 the molecules on people’s skin
    0:38:28 by actively rubbing it
    0:38:29 on ourselves.
    0:38:31 And we are actively involved
    0:38:33 in sensing the chemicals
    0:38:34 that they are emitting,
    0:38:35 their hormone status,
    0:38:36 how they smell.
    0:38:38 We’re detecting
    0:38:40 the pheromones possibly,
    0:38:42 but certainly the odors
    0:38:43 in their breath.
    0:38:44 So today we talked a lot
    0:38:46 about olfaction, taste
    0:38:47 and chemical sensing
    0:38:48 between individuals.
    0:38:49 I like to think
    0:38:50 that you now know a lot
    0:38:52 about how your smell system works
    0:38:53 and why inhaling
    0:38:55 is a really good thing to do
    0:38:56 in general
    0:38:57 for waking up your brain
    0:38:59 and for cognitive function
    0:39:00 and for enhancing
    0:39:00 your sense of smell.
    0:39:02 And we talked about
    0:39:03 chemical signaling
    0:39:03 between individuals
    0:39:05 as a way of communicating
    0:39:06 some important aspects
    0:39:07 about biology.
    0:39:08 People are shaping
    0:39:09 each other’s biology
    0:39:10 all the time
    0:39:11 by way of these chemicals
    0:39:12 that are being traded
    0:39:13 from one body to the next
    0:39:14 through air
    0:39:16 and skin-to-skin contact
    0:39:17 and tears.
    0:39:18 Last but not least,
    0:39:19 I want to thank you
    0:39:20 for your time and attention
    0:39:21 and your willingness
    0:39:22 to embrace new concepts
    0:39:23 and terms
    0:39:25 and to learn about science
    0:39:25 and biology
    0:39:26 and protocols
    0:39:28 that hopefully can benefit you
    0:39:28 and the people that you know.
    0:39:30 And of course,
    0:39:31 thank you for your interest
    0:39:32 in science.
    Chào mừng bạn đến với Huberman Lab Essentials, nơi chúng ta xem lại các tập trước để tìm ra những công cụ dựa trên khoa học mạnh mẽ và có thể hành động được nhất cho sức khỏe tâm thần, sức khỏe thể chất và hiệu suất. Tôi là Andrew Huberman, và tôi là giáo sư sinh lý học thần kinh và nhãn khoa tại Trường Y tế Stanford. Podcast này tách biệt với vai trò giảng dạy và nghiên cứu của tôi tại Stanford.
    Hôm nay, chúng ta sẽ nói về cảm nhận hóa học. Chúng ta sẽ nói về giác quan ngửi, khả năng của chúng ta để phát hiện mùi hương trong môi trường xung quanh. Chúng ta cũng sẽ nói về vị giác, khả năng của chúng ta trong việc phát hiện các hóa chất và hiểu về những hóa chất được đưa vào miệng và hệ tiêu hóa của chúng ta. Và chúng ta sẽ nói về những hóa chất được tạo ra bởi những con người khác, những hóa chất này có khả năng điều chỉnh mạnh mẽ cảm xúc của chúng ta, hormon và sức khỏe của chúng ta. Danh mục cuối cùng đó đôi khi được gọi là pheromone. Tuy nhiên, việc pheromone có tồn tại ở con người hay không thì khá gây tranh cãi. Thực tế là chưa có một ví dụ rõ ràng nào về một hiệu ứng pheromone thực sự ở con người, nhưng điều hoàn toàn rõ ràng, điều không thể phủ nhận là có những hóa chất mà con người tạo ra và phát tán như nước mắt lên da, mồ hôi và thậm chí là hơi thở, có khả năng điều chỉnh hoặc kiểm soát sinh học của các cá thể khác.
    Có những thứ đang bay xung quanh trong môi trường, mà chúng ta gọi là hóa chất dễ bay hơi. Vì vậy, khi bạn ngửi thấy một cái gì đó, như mùi của một bông hoa hồng hoặc một chiếc bánh ngon, vâng, bạn đang hít những hạt đó vào mũi. Thực sự có những hạt nhỏ của những hóa chất đó đang đi vào mũi của bạn và được phát hiện bởi não của bạn. Những cách khác để đưa hóa chất vào trong cơ thể của chúng ta là bằng cách đưa chúng vào miệng, thực sự ăn thức ăn và nhai chúng, hoặc mút chúng và phá vỡ chúng thành các phần tử cấu thành của chúng. Đó là một cách để chúng ta cảm nhận hóa chất bằng một bộ phận, đó là lưỡi của chúng ta.
    Vì vậy, những hóa chất này, đôi khi chúng ta đưa vào cơ thể chúng ta, vào sinh học của chúng ta thông qua hành động có chủ đích. Chúng ta chọn một loại thực phẩm, chúng ta nhai thực phẩm đó và chúng ta làm điều đó một cách có ý thức. Đôi khi, chúng đến trong cơ thể của chúng ta thông qua hành động không có chủ đích. Chúng ta bước vào một môi trường và có khói, và chúng ta ngửi thấy khói. Và kết quả là, chúng ta hành động. Tuy nhiên, đôi khi, những người khác đang chủ động tạo ra hóa chất với cơ thể của họ. Thông thường, điều này sẽ liên quan đến hơi thở của họ, với nước mắt của họ, hoặc có thể, tôi muốn nhấn mạnh là có thể, bằng cách tạo ra những gì được gọi là pheromone, các phân tử mà họ phát tán vào môi trường, thường thông qua hơi thở, vào hệ thống của chúng ta qua mũi, mắt hoặc miệng, điều này thay đổi cơ bản sinh học của chúng ta.
    Tôi chỉ muốn đưa ra một ví dụ, đó là một ví dụ rất nổi bật và thú vị được công bố khoảng 10 năm trước trong tạp chí Science, cho thấy rằng con người, đặc biệt là nam giới trong nghiên cứu này, có phản ứng sinh học mạnh mẽ và phản ứng hormon đối với nước mắt của phụ nữ. Những gì họ đã làm là họ có những phụ nữ, và trong trường hợp này, chỉ có phụ nữ vì lý do nào đó, khóc, và họ thu thập nước mắt của họ. Sau đó, những nước mắt đó được ngửi bởi các đối tượng nam hoặc các đối tượng nam nhận được điều mà về cơ bản là kiểm soát, đó là dung dịch muối. Những người đàn ông ngửi những nước mắt này, được khơi dậy bởi nỗi buồn, đã có sự giảm mức testosterone đáng kể. Họ cũng đã có sự giảm ở các vùng não liên quan đến kích thích tình dục. Họ thực sự đã tuyển chọn những đối tượng có xu hướng cao bị kích thích đến khóc khi xem phim buồn, điều này không phải là tất cả phụ nữ. Những gì họ thực sự cố gắng làm là chỉ thu thập nước mắt thật sự được khóc trong phản ứng với nỗi buồn, thay vì, bạn biết đấy, cho một số chất kích thích trong mắt và thu thập nước mắt được khơi dậy bởi một điều gì đó khác, chẳng hạn như chỉ là khi mắt bị kích thích.
    Tuy nhiên, nghiên cứu này minh họa rằng có các hóa chất trong nước mắt có tác dụng khơi dậy hoặc thay đổi sinh học của các cá thể khác. Bây giờ, tôi không chọn nghiên cứu này làm ví dụ vì tôi muốn tập trung vào tác động của nước mắt lên hormon per se, mặc dù tôi thấy kết quả thực sự thú vị. Tôi đã chọn nó vì tôi muốn nhấn mạnh hoặc nhấn mạnh thực tế rằng những hóa chất được tạo ra bởi những cá nhân khác đang điều chỉnh mạnh mẽ trạng thái bên trong của chúng ta. Và đó là điều mà hầu hết chúng ta không đánh giá đúng mức.
    Tôi nghĩ hầu hết chúng ta có thể đánh giá thực tế rằng nếu chúng ta ngửi thấy một cái gì đó hôi thối, chúng ta có xu hướng rút lui, hoặc nếu chúng ta ngửi thấy một cái gì đó ngon, chúng ta có xu hướng tiếp cận nó. Nhưng có rất nhiều cách mà hóa chất đang ảnh hưởng đến sinh học của chúng ta và giao tiếp giữa các cá nhân sử dụng hóa chất không phải là điều mà chúng ta thường nghe về, nhưng điều đó rất thú vị.
    Vậy hãy nói về mùi hương và mùi hương là gì và nó hoạt động như thế nào. Tôi sẽ làm điều này rất cơ bản, nhưng tôi sẽ chạm vào một số yếu tố cốt lõi của sinh lý học thần kinh. Vì vậy, đây là cách mùi hương hoạt động. Như nhiều người trong số các bạn đã biết, tôi đã dùng AG1 hàng ngày trong hơn 13 năm. Tuy nhiên, bây giờ tôi đã tìm thấy một loại đồ uống vitamin khoáng probiotic tốt hơn nữa. Đồ uống mới và tốt hơn này là AG1 cải tiến, vừa mới ra mắt trong tháng này. Công thức thế hệ tiếp theo này từ AG1 là một phiên bản nâng cao hơn, có tính lâm sàng hỗ trợ hơn của sản phẩm mà tôi đã sử dụng hàng ngày trong nhiều năm. Nó bao gồm các chất dinh dưỡng mới có khả năng sinh học cao và probiotic được cải thiện. Công thức thế hệ tiếp theo này dựa trên nghiên cứu mới thú vị về hiệu ứng của probiotic lên hệ vi sinh vật đường ruột. Và bây giờ nó bao gồm một số chủng probiotic cụ thể đã được nghiên cứu lâm sàng cho thấy hỗ trợ cả sức khỏe tiêu hóa và sức khỏe hệ thống miễn dịch, cũng như cải thiện việc đều đặn của ruột và giảm đầy hơi. Là người đã tham gia vào nghiên cứu khoa học trong hơn ba thập kỷ và trong sức khỏe và thể dục cùng thời gian dài, tôi luôn tìm kiếm những công cụ tốt nhất để cải thiện sức khỏe tâm thần, sức khỏe thể chất và hiệu suất của mình.
    Tôi đã phát hiện ra và bắt đầu dùng AG1 từ năm 2012, trước khi tôi có podcast và tôi đã dùng nó mỗi ngày kể từ đó. Tôi thấy rằng nó cải thiện rất nhiều khía cạnh sức khỏe của tôi. Tôi cảm thấy tốt hơn rất nhiều khi dùng nó và tôi gán cho khả năng của mình để làm việc lâu dài một cách liên tục trong suốt những năm qua, trong khi vẫn duy trì một cuộc sống trọn vẹn, có nhiều năng lượng, ngủ ngon, không bị bệnh,… phần lớn là nhờ vào AG1. Và tất nhiên, tôi làm rất nhiều thứ. Tôi tập thể dục, tôi ăn uống đúng cách,… nhưng qua mỗi năm trôi qua, nhân tiện, tôi sẽ tròn 50 tuổi vào tháng 9 này, tôi cảm thấy ngày càng tốt hơn và tôi coi điều đó nhiều phần là nhờ AG1. AG1 sử dụng những nguyên liệu chất lượng cao nhất trong những sự kết hợp đúng đắn và họ luôn cải thiện công thức mà không tăng chi phí. Vì vậy, tôi rất vinh dự có họ là nhà tài trợ của podcast này. Nếu bạn muốn thử AG1, bạn có thể vào drinkag1.com/Huberman để nhận một ưu đãi đặc biệt. Hiện tại, AG1 đang tặng một bộ chào mừng AG1 với năm gói du lịch miễn phí và một chai vitamin D3 K2 miễn phí. Một lần nữa, hãy vào drinkag1.com/Huberman để nhận bộ quà chào mừng đặc biệt với năm gói du lịch miễn phí và một chai vitamin D3 K2 miễn phí.
    Mùi bắt đầu từ việc ngửi. Điều này có thể không làm bạn bất ngờ, nhưng không có hóa chất dễ bay hơi nào có thể vào mũi của chúng ta nếu chúng ta không hít vào. Nếu mũi của chúng ta bị tắc nghẽn hay nếu chúng ta đang thở ra, sẽ rất khó khăn để mùi vào mũi của chúng ta, và đó là lý do tại sao mọi người lại bịt mũi khi có thứ gì đó có mùi khó chịu. Cách mà những mùi dễ bay hơi này vào mũi thì rất thú vị. Mũi có một lớp niêm mạc, chất nhầy, được thiết kế để giữ lại những thứ, thực sự đưa những thứ vào và giữ lại đó. Tại đáy não của bạn, bạn có thể tưởng tượng điều này hoặc nếu bạn muốn, bạn có thể chạm vào nó lên mái miệng của bạn nhưng ngay trên miệng, khoảng hai centimet là củ khứu giác của bạn. Củ khứu giác là một tập hợp các nơ-ron và những nơ-ron đó thực sự kéo dài ra ngoài hộp sọ, ra ngoài hộp sọ của bạn, vào mũi của bạn, vào lớp niêm mạc. Điều này có nghĩa là bạn có những nơ-ron kéo dài những nhánh nhỏ giống như sợi thần kinh và những quá trình nhỏ mà chúng tôi gọi là, vào trong chất nhầy và chúng phản ứng với những hợp chất mùi khác nhau. Các nơ-ron khứu giác cũng gửi một nhánh sâu hơn vào não và chúng chia ra thành ba con đường khác nhau. Một con đường là cho những gì chúng tôi gọi là phản ứng mùi bẩm sinh. Vì vậy, bạn có một số khía cạnh bị ‘các dây thần kinh’ về cách mà bạn ngửi thấy thế giới đã có từ ngày bạn được sinh ra và sẽ tồn tại cho đến ngày bạn chết. Đây là những con đường và các nơ-ron phản ứng với những thứ như khói, mà như bạn có thể tưởng tượng, có một chức năng thích ứng cao để có thể phát hiện ra những thứ đang cháy, vì những thứ đang cháy thường có nghĩa là thiếu an toàn hoặc mối đe dọa sắp xảy ra. Nó kêu gọi hành động và thực sự, những nơ-ron này dựa vào một khu vực trung tâm của não gọi là hạch hạnh nhân, thường được thảo luận theo cách liên quan đến nỗi sợ hãi, nhưng thực sự là sự phát hiện sợ hãi và đe dọa. Bạn cũng có những nơ-ron trong mũi của mình phản ứng với các hợp chất mùi hoặc các sự kết hợp của các hợp chất mùi tạo ra một cảm giác ham muốn và những gì chúng ta gọi là hành vi thèm muốn, hành vi tiếp cận mà khiến bạn muốn tiến về phía một cái gì đó. Vì vậy, khi bạn ngửi thấy một chiếc bánh quy ngon lành hoặc một món ăn nào đó thật sự hấp dẫn mà bạn thực sự thích, đó là nhờ vào những con đường bẩm sinh. Những con đường này không cần học hỏi chút nào.
    Bây giờ, một số con đường từ mũi, những nơ-ron khứu giác này vào não tham gia vào các liên kết học được với mùi. Nhiều người có trải nghiệm này rằng họ có thể nhớ lại mùi của nhà bà họ hoặc mùi của những món ăn đặc biệt đang nướng hoặc trên bếp trong một môi trường cụ thể. Thông thường, những kỷ niệm này thường có xu hướng mang lại cảm giác nuôi dưỡng, cảm giác an toàn và được bảo vệ, nhưng một trong những lý do khiến khứu giác, mùi, gắn bó sâu sắc với trí nhớ là vì khứu giác là giác quan cổ xưa nhất mà chúng ta có. Chúng ta có con đường cho những phản ứng bẩm sinh và một con đường cho những phản ứng học được. Và sau đó chúng ta có con đường khác, và ở con người, nó khá gây tranh cãi về việc liệu nó có thực sự tách biệt khỏi hệ thống khứu giác tiêu chuẩn hay không, hoặc liệu nó có phải là một hệ thống riêng được nhúng ở đó hay không, nhưng họ gọi nó là con đường khứu giác phụ trợ. Con đường khứu giác phụ trợ là những gì ở những động vật khác chịu trách nhiệm cho những hiệu ứng pheromone thực sự. Ví dụ, ở động vật gặm nhấm và một số loài linh trưởng bao gồm cả mandrils. Nếu bạn đã từng thấy một con mandril, chúng có những chiếc mũi lớn. Bạn có thể đã thấy chúng ở sở thú. Hãy tìm kiếm chúng nếu bạn chưa từng thấy. M-A-N-D-R-I-L-S. Mandrils. Có những hiệu ứng pheromone mạnh mẽ. Một số điều đó bao gồm việc nếu bạn lấy một con gặm nhấm cái mang thai hoặc mandril, bạn loại bỏ người cha đã tạo ra những phôi thai đó và bạn giới thiệu mùi nước tiểu hoặc lông của một con đực mới, cô ấy sẽ tự động sảy thai hoặc mất thai. Đó là một hiệu ứng rất mạnh mẽ. Một ví dụ khác về hiệu ứng pheromone được gọi là hiệu ứng Vandenberg, được đặt theo tên người đã phát hiện ra hiệu ứng này nơi bạn lấy một con cái của một loài nhất định chưa bước vào tuổi dậy thì, bạn đưa nó tiếp xúc với mùi hương hoặc nước tiểu từ một con đực có khả năng sinh dục, có nghĩa là đã qua tuổi dậy thì, và nó tự động bước vào tuổi dậy thì sớm hơn. Vì vậy, một điều gì đó về mùi hương khơi gợi điều gì đó thông qua hệ thống khứu giác phụ trợ này. Đây là một hiệu ứng pheromone thực sự và tạo ra quá trình rụng trứng, đúng không, và chu kỳ kinh nguyệt, hoặc ở động vật gặm nhấm, đó là chu kỳ estrous, không phải chu kỳ kinh nguyệt. Vì vậy, điều này không có nghĩa là những điều hoàn toàn giống nhau xảy ra ở con người.
    In con người, như tôi đã đề cập trước đó, có sự cảm nhận hóa học giữa các cá nhân mà có thể độc lập với mũi, nhưng đó thực sự là ba con đường cơ bản mà mùi hương và các loại mùi tác động đến chúng ta. Vì vậy, tôi muốn nói về hành động ngửi. Nếu bạn không phải là người rất quan tâm đến mùi, nhưng bạn là người muốn cải thiện hoạt động của não bộ, học nhanh hơn, nhớ nhiều thứ hơn, thì phần nhỏ tiếp theo này dành cho bạn, vì hóa ra cách bạn ngửi, có nghĩa là hành động ngửi, không phải cách bạn có mùi tốt hay xấu, mà là hành động ngửi, hít thở và năng lực hít vào có tác động mạnh mẽ đến cách mà não bộ của bạn hoạt động và những gì bạn có thể học được và những gì bạn không thể học được. Nhóm của Gnome Sobel ban đầu tại UC Berkeley và sau đó tại Viện Weitzman đã công bố một số bài báo mà tôi muốn thảo luận hôm nay. Một trong số đó, nhận thức phi khứu giác của con người được khóa pha với việc hít vào. Bài báo này đã được xuất bản trên tạp chí Nature Human Behavior, một tạp chí tuyệt vời. Khi chúng ta hít vào, điều mà bài báo này cho thấy là mức độ cảnh giác trong não tăng lên, và điều này có lý vì đây là giác quan nguyên thủy và cổ xưa nhất mà chúng ta tương tác với môi trường của mình và đưa các hóa chất vào trong hệ thống của chúng ta và phát hiện môi trường, việc hít vào là một tín hiệu cho phần còn lại của não bộ chú ý đến những gì đang xảy ra, không chỉ là các mùi hương. Như tên của bài báo này gợi ý, nhận thức phi khứu giác của con người được khóa pha với việc hít vào. Điều đó có nghĩa là hành động hít vào tự nó đánh thức não bộ. Nó không phải về những gì bạn đang cảm nhận hoặc những gì bạn đang ngửi và thực sự, hành động ngửi, hít vào như một hành động có tác động mạnh mẽ đến khả năng cảnh giác, khả năng chú ý, khả năng tập trung và khả năng nhớ thông tin của bạn. Khi chúng ta thở ra, não bộ trải qua một sự giảm nhẹ nhưng vẫn đáng kể trong mức độ sôi nổi và khả năng học hỏi. Bạn nên sử dụng kiến thức này như thế nào? Chà, bạn có thể tưởng tượng, và tôi nghĩ điều này sẽ có lợi cho hầu hết mọi người, là tập trung vào việc thở qua mũi khi thực hiện bất kỳ loại công việc tập trung nào không yêu cầu bạn nói hoặc ăn hoặc tiêu thụ một cái gì đó. Có một bài báo riêng biệt được xuất bản trong Tạp chí Khoa học Thần kinh cho thấy rằng thực sự, nếu các đối tượng, các đối tượng con người, bị hạn chế kết nối với việc thở qua mũi, thì họ học tốt hơn là nếu họ có tùy chọn thở qua miệng hoặc kết hợp giữa mũi và miệng. Bây giờ, có những cách khác để đánh thức não bộ của bạn hơn nữa. Ví dụ, việc sử dụng muối ngửi. Tôi không khuyên bạn nhất thiết phải làm điều này, nhưng có những dữ liệu được đánh giá ngang hàng xuất sắc cho thấy rằng thực sự, nếu bạn sử dụng muối ngửi, chủ yếu là loại bao gồm amoniac. Amoniac là một mùi rất độc, nhưng nó độc theo cách kích hoạt con đường bẩm sinh này, con đường từ mũi đến hạch hạnh nhân và đánh thức não bộ và cơ thể theo một cách lớn. Đây là lý do tại sao họ sử dụng muối ngửi khi mọi người ngất xỉu. Chúng hoạt động vì chúng kích hoạt hệ thống sợ hãi và kiểu hệ thống kích thích tổng thể của não bộ. Đây là lý do tại sao tôi nghĩ hầu hết mọi người có lẽ không nên sử dụng amoniac hay muối ngửi để cố gắng tỉnh táo, nhưng chúng thực sự hiệu quả. Bây giờ, hít vào qua mũi và thực hiện thở mũi, sẽ là một phiên bản tinh tế hơn để đánh thức hệ thống của bạn, để cảnh báo não bộ của bạn nói chung. Và đối với những bạn quan tâm đến việc có mối liên hệ phong phú, sâu sắc hơn với những thứ bạn ngửi và nếm, thực hành hoặc nâng cao khả năng ngửi của bạn có vẻ như là một cách diễn tập hơi kỳ quặc, nhưng thực sự nó là một thí nghiệm thú vị và thú vị mà bạn có thể thực hiện. Bạn chỉ cần thực hiện thí nghiệm đơn giản là lấy, ví dụ, một quả cam, bạn ngửi nó, thực hiện 10 hoặc 15 lần hít vào, tiếp theo là thở ra, tất nhiên, hoặc chỉ qua mũi. Tôi sẽ không thực hiện tất cả 10 hoặc 15 lần rồi lại ngửi nó. Và bạn sẽ nhận thấy rằng sự cảm nhận của bạn về mùi đó, độ phong phú của mùi đó sẽ tăng lên đáng kể. Vì vậy, bạn thực sự có thể có một trải nghiệm cao hơn về một thứ gì đó. Và điều đó dĩ nhiên sẽ đúng cho hệ thống vị giác. Tôi muốn tạm dừng một chút và cảm ơn một trong những nhà tài trợ của chúng tôi, Element. Element là một thức uống điện giải có tất cả những gì bạn cần và không có những gì bạn không cần. Điều đó có nghĩa là các điện giải, natri, magie và kali ở tỉ lệ chính xác, nhưng không có đường. Tất cả chúng ta nên biết rằng việc hydrat hóa đúng cách là rất quan trọng cho chức năng não và cơ thể tối ưu. Thực tế, chỉ cần một mức độ nhẹ của mất nước có thể làm giảm hiệu suất nhận thức và thể chất của bạn đến một mức độ đáng kể. Cũng quan trọng là bạn không chỉ được hydrat hóa, mà bạn còn nhận được đủ lượng điện giải với tỷ lệ đúng. Uống một gói Element hòa tan trong nước rất dễ dàng để đảm bảo rằng bạn nhận được đủ lượng nước và điện giải. Để đảm bảo rằng tôi nhận được lượng thích hợp của cả hai, tôi hòa tan một gói Element trong khoảng 16 đến 32 ounce nước khi tôi thức dậy vào buổi sáng và tôi uống điều đó, cơ bản là việc đầu tiên vào sáng. Tôi cũng sẽ uống một gói Element hòa tan trong nước trong bất kỳ loại bài tập thể chất nào mà tôi đang thực hiện, đặc biệt vào những ngày nóng khi tôi ra nhiều mồ hôi và mất nước và điện giải. Có rất nhiều hương vị khác nhau ngon của Element. Tôi thích vị dưa hấu, tôi thích vị mâm xôi, tôi thích vị cam chanh, nói chung tôi thích tất cả các vị. Nếu bạn muốn thử Element, bạn có thể vào drinkelement.com slash Huberman để nhận một gói mẫu Element khi mua bất kỳ loại hỗn hợp đồ uống Element nào. Một lần nữa, đó là drinkelement đánh vần là L-M-N-T, vì vậy là drinkelement.
    com
    gạch chéo Huberman
    để yêu cầu một gói mẫu miễn phí.
    Bạn cũng có thể thực sự
    đào tạo cảm giác khứu giác của bạn
    để trở nên tốt hơn rất nhiều.
    Không có hệ thống nào khác
    mà tôi biết
    trong cơ thể chúng ta
    có khả năng
    thích ứng với những loại
    biến đổi hành vi như vậy
    và cho phép chúng
    xảy ra nhanh chóng như vậy.
    Trên thực tế,
    cách mà chúng ta có thể ngửi
    và nếm những thứ
    thực sự là
    một dấu hiệu rất mạnh mẽ
    cho sức khỏe não bộ của chúng ta.
    Vì vậy, các nơ-ron khứu giác của chúng ta,
    các nơ-ron này trong mũi của chúng ta
    phát hiện mùi hương
    thực sự là độc đáo
    giữa các nơ-ron não khác
    vì chúng được tái tạo
    trong suốt cuộc đời.
    Chúng không chỉ tái sinh,
    mà còn được bổ sung.
    Vì vậy, sự tái sinh
    là khi một cái gì đó bị hỏng
    và nó mọc lại.
    Các nơ-ron này
    đang liên tục thay đổi
    trong suốt vòng đời của chúng ta.
    Chúng liên tục
    được bổ sung.
    Chúng đang chết đi
    và được
    thay thế bằng những cái mới.
    Điều này thật thú vị
    bởi vì các nơ-ron khác
    trong vỏ não của bạn,
    trong võng mạc của bạn,
    trong tiểu não của bạn,
    không làm như vậy.
    Chúng không được tái tạo liên tục
    trong suốt cuộc đời.
    Nhưng các nơ-ron này,
    các nơ-ron khứu giác này thì có,
    chúng đặc biệt.
    Và có một số
    điều có vẻ như làm tăng
    số lượng
    tái tạo nơ-ron khứu giác.
    Có bằng chứng
    rằng việc tập thể dục,
    lưu thông máu,
    có thể tăng cường
    tái tạo nơ-ron khứu giác.
    Mặc dù dữ liệu đó
    ít hơn
    so với những thứ
    như tương tác xã hội
    hoặc thực sự tương tác
    với các chất gây mùi
    khác nhau.
    Nhưng điều tôi muốn làm
    là trao quyền cho bạn
    các công cụ
    giúp bạn
    duy trì các hệ thống này
    được điều chỉnh tốt.
    Lần trước chúng ta đã nói
    về việc điều chỉnh
    và giữ cho hệ thống thị giác của bạn
    được điều chỉnh tốt và khỏe mạnh
    bất kể tuổi tác.
    Ở đây chúng ta đang nói về
    việc thực sự nâng cao
    các khả năng khứu giác của bạn,
    các khả năng nếm của bạn
    bằng cách tương tác
    nhiều với các mùi,
    tốt nhất là các mùi tích cực
    và ngửi nhiều hơn,
    hít vào nhiều hơn,
    điều này gần như nghe có vẻ điên rồ.
    Nhưng bây giờ bạn hiểu tại sao
    dù có thể nghe có vẻ điên rồ,
    nó lại dựa trên
    sinh học cơ chế thực sự
    của cách não thức dậy
    và phản ứng với những hóa chất này.
    Bây giờ, nói về chấn thương não,
    chức năng khứu giác kém
    là một chủ đề phổ biến
    trong chấn thương sọ não
    vì lý do sau đây.
    Các nơ-ron khứu giác này,
    như tôi đã đề cập,
    kéo dài dây vào niêm mạc
    của mũi,
    nhưng chúng cũng kéo dài
    một dây lên xương sọ
    và chúng kéo dài
    lên xương sọ
    thông qua cái gọi là
    mâm xương tịt.
    Nó giống như một cái đĩa kiểu phô mai Thụy Sĩ
    nơi mà chúng đi qua
    và nếu bạn bị va chạm vào đầu,
    xương đó,
    mâm xương tịt
    cắt đứt những sợi dây nhỏ đó
    và những nơ-ron đó chết đi.
    Bây giờ, cuối cùng chúng sẽ được thay thế,
    nhưng có một hiện tượng
    mà theo đó
    cú chấn và mức độ của cú chấn
    và sự hồi phục
    từ chấn thương đầu
    có thể được đo lường
    một phần,
    một phần,
    không phải hoàn toàn,
    mà một phần
    bằng cách mà
    một người hồi phục
    cảm giác khứu giác của họ.
    Vì vậy, nếu bạn là người
    đáng tiếc
    đã mắc phải một cú chấn,
    cảm giác khứu giác của bạn
    là một đầu ra
    mà bạn có thể đánh giá
    xem liệu bạn có
    đang phục hồi
    một số khả năng cảm giác của mình hay không.
    Tất nhiên,
    sẽ có những cảm giác khác
    như cân bằng và nhận thức
    và giấc ngủ, v.v.
    Nhưng tôi muốn giới thiệu cho bạn
    một bài báo rất hay
    có tiêu đề
    Chức Năng Khứu Giác Kém
    Trong Chấn Thương Sọ Não,
    Vai Trò của Tái Tạo Nơ-ron.
    Tác giả chính
    là Marin,
    M-A-R-I-N.
    Bài báo được xuất bản
    trong Current Allergy
    and Asthma Report.
    Đây là năm 2020.
    Tôi đã dành một chút thời gian
    với bài báo này.
    Nó khá tốt.
    Đó là một bài viết tổng quan.
    Tôi thích các bài tổng quan
    nếu đó là các bài tổng quan đã được đánh giá đồng nghiệp.
    Những gì họ thảo luận là
    và tôi sẽ chỉ đọc ở đây ngắn gọn
    bởi vì họ đã nói tốt hơn tôi có thể.
    Rối loạn chức năng khứu giác
    là phổ biến
    sau chấn thương sọ não,
    TBI
    và có thể có tác động đáng kể
    đến chất lượng cuộc sống
    mặc dù không có phương pháp điều trị tiêu chuẩn
    cho bệnh nhân
    mất khứu giác.
    Bây giờ tôi đang diễn đạt lại
    sau chấn thương.
    Đào tạo khứu giác
    đã cho thấy triển vọng
    cho các tác động có lợi
    nhưng điều này có nghĩa là gì?
    Điều này có nghĩa là
    nếu bạn đã bị chấn thương đầu
    hoặc chấn thương đầu lặp đi lặp lại,
    thì việc nâng cao cảm giác khứu giác của bạn
    là một cách
    để tạo ra
    các nơ-ron mới
    và nay bạn biết
    cách để nâng cao
    cảm giác khứu giác của bạn
    bằng cách tương tác với những thứ
    có mùi hương
    rất gần gũi
    và cơ bản là
    hít vào nhiều hơn,
    tập trung vào việc hít vào
    để đánh thức não
    và thực sự tập trung
    vào một số sắc thái
    của những mùi hương đó.
    Như một điểm cuối
    về các
    mùi hương và hợp chất cụ thể
    mà có thể tăng cường
    sự tỉnh táo và cảnh giác
    và điều này thực sự
    chỉ đơn giản là
    thông qua việc ngửi chúng
    không phải thông qua việc tiêu thụ chúng.
    Có dữ liệu,
    tin hay không,
    có dữ liệu tốt
    về hương bạc hà
    và mùi hương bạc hà.
    Các mùi hương giống như bạc hà,
    dù bạn có thích hay không,
    sẽ tăng cường sự chú ý
    và chúng có thể tạo ra
    phản ứng kích thích tương tự
    mặc dù không mạnh mẽ
    hoặc không kịch liệt
    như muối amoniac có thể,
    chẳng hạn.
    Nhân tiện,
    xin đừng ngửi
    amoniac thật.
    Bạn có thể thực sự làm hại
    biểu mô khứu giác của mình
    nếu bạn làm điều đó
    quá gần với amoniac.
    Nếu bạn định sử dụng
    muối hít,
    hãy đảm bảo bạn làm việc với ai đó
    hoặc bạn biết bạn đang sử dụng gì
    và cách sử dụng nó.
    Bạn có thể làm hại
    đường khứu giác của bạn
    theo những cách khá nghiêm trọng.
    Bạn cũng có thể làm hại thị lực của mình.
    Nếu bạn đã từng rơi lệ
    vì hít phải một cái gì đó
    thực sự độc hại,
    đó không phải là điều tốt
    nhưng nó có nghĩa là
    bạn đã làm kích thích
    niêm mạc và có thể thậm chí
    các bề mặt của mắt bạn
    vì vậy hãy rất, rất cẩn thận.
    Các mùi hương như bạc hà,
    như những muối amoniac này,
    lý do chúng làm bạn tỉnh táo
    là vì chúng kích hoạt
    các nơ-ron khứu giác đặc biệt
    liên lạc
    với các trung tâm cụ thể
    của não,
    cụ thể là hạch hạnh nhân
    và các mạch thần kinh liên quan
    và các con đường
    kích thích sự cảnh giác
    giống như một vòi hoa sen lạnh
    hay một bồn tắm nước đá
    hay một cú sốc bất ngờ
    hay một tin nhắn văn bản căng thẳng
    sẽ kích thích.
    Nhớ nhé,
    các hệ thống trong cơ thể bạn
    sản xuất ra sự kích thích,
    sự tỉnh táo
    và sự chú ý,
    và báo hiệu cho bạn
    để học tập tối ưu,
    còn được gọi là tập trung,
    đó là những cơ chế rất tổng quát.
    Chúng liên quan đến
    những phân tử rất cơ bản
    như adrenaline
    và epinephrine.
    Cùng một thứ thực sự,
    adrenaline và epinephrine.
    Số lượng kích thích,
    dù là bạc hà
    hay amoniac
    hay tiếng nổ lớn,
    số lượng kích thích
    có thể gợi lên
    phản ứng adrenaline
    và phản ứng tỉnh táo
    gần như vô hạn
    và đó là vẻ đẹp
    của hệ thần kinh của bạn.
    Nó được thiết kế
    để tiếp nhận bất kỳ sự kích thích
    khác nhau nào,
    phân loại chúng
    và sau đó gợi lên
    các loại phản ứng khác nhau
    vô cùng tổng quát.
    Bây giờ bạn đã biết nhiều
    về khứu giác
    và cách mà
    cảm giác
    ngửi hoạt động.
    Hãy nói về vị giác,
    có nghĩa là cách chúng ta cảm nhận các hóa chất
    trong thực phẩm
    và đồ uống.
    Cơ bản có năm vị,
    nhưng các nhà khoa học hiện nay tin rằng
    có thể có sáu
    thứ mà chúng ta nếm
    một mình hoặc kết hợp.
    Chúng là vị ngọt,
    vị mặn,
    vị đắng,
    vị chua,
    và vị umami.
    Có lẽ hầu hết các bạn đã
    nghe về umami đến giờ.
    Nó là U-M-A-M-I.
    Umami thực sự là
    tên của một loại
    thụ thể cụ thể mà bạn biểu hiện
    trên lưỡi của bạn
    nhận biết các vị ngon.
    Mỗi loại có một nhóm
    nơ-ron đặc biệt
    trong miệng của bạn,
    trong lưỡi của bạn,
    tin hay không thì tùy bạn,
    đáp ứng
    với các hóa chất cụ thể
    và các cấu trúc hóa học cụ thể.
    Đó là một huyền thoại hoàn toàn,
    một hư cấu hoàn toàn
    rằng các phần khác nhau
    của lưỡi bạn
    chứa đựng
    các thụ thể vị giác khác nhau.
    Bạn biết không,
    bản vẽ trong sách giáo khoa
    thời trung học đó
    cho thấy, bạn biết đấy,
    ngọt ở một phần
    của lưỡi
    và chua ở một phần khác
    và đắng ở một phần khác.
    Chúng hoàn toàn
    được trộn lẫn
    trên lưỡi của bạn.
    Vì vậy, tất cả những thụ thể này
    trong lưỡi của bạn
    tạo nên cái mà
    chúng ta gọi
    là các nơ-ron
    tạo ra
    một dây thần kinh,
    một tập hợp
    các dây,
    các bó dây thần kinh
    của cái mà gọi là
    dây thần kinh vị giác.
    Dây thần kinh vị giác
    từ lưỡi
    đi đến hạch
    của đường đơn độc
    và sau đó đến thalamus
    và đến vỏ não insula.
    Và chính là một vỏ não insula,
    vùng này trong vỏ não của chúng ta
    mà chúng ta phân loại
    và hiểu rõ
    và cảm nhận
    các vị khác nhau.
    Bây giờ, thật tuyệt vời
    bởi vì chỉ cần lấy
    một ít đường
    hoặc một thứ chua,
    như một ít
    nước chanh
    và chạm nó
    vào lưỡi
    trong vòng 100 mili giây,
    đúng không?
    Chỉ trong 100 mili giây,
    thậm chí không đến một giây,
    bạn có thể ngay lập tức
    phân biệt,
    à, đó là chua,
    đó là ngọt,
    đó là đắng,
    đó là umami.
    Và đó là
    một đánh giá
    được thực hiện
    bởi vỏ não.
    Bây giờ,
    những thụ thể khác nhau này
    mã hóa cho cái gì?
    Chà, ngọt, mặn,
    đắng, umami, chua,
    nhưng chúng thật sự đang tìm kiếm gì?
    Chúng đang cảm nhận điều gì?
    Chà, đồ ngọt
    báo hiệu sự hiện diện
    của năng lượng,
    của đường.
    Và trong khi tất cả chúng ta đều
    cố gắng hoặc được nói rằng
    chúng ta nên ăn
    ít đường hơn
    vì nhiều lý do,
    khả năng
    cảm nhận
    liệu thực phẩm
    có nguồn năng lượng
    nhanh hay không
    hoặc có thể tạo ra
    glucose
    là điều thiết yếu.
    Vì vậy, chúng ta có
    các thụ thể ngọt.
    Các thụ thể mặn,
    các nơ-ron này
    đang cố gắng cảm nhận
    liệu có hay không
    các điện giải
    trong một thực phẩm
    hoặc đồ uống nhất định.
    Các điện giải
    là điều cực kỳ quan trọng
    cho chức năng
    của hệ thần kinh chúng ta
    và cho toàn bộ
    cơ thể chúng ta.
    Các thụ thể đắng
    ở đó
    để đảm bảo
    chúng ta không tiêu thụ
    những thứ độc hại.
    Các thụ thể đắng
    tạo ra một,
    cái mà chúng ta gọi là
    đường dây được gán nhãn,
    một con đường độc đáo
    đến các nơ-ron
    của não giữa
    điều khiển
    phản xạ nôn.
    Nếu chúng ta nếm
    một thứ gì đó rất đắng,
    nó tự động
    kích hoạt phản xạ nôn.
    Mùi hôi thối
    cũng sẽ gợi lên
    các nơ-ron này.
    Thụ thể umami
    không cảm nhận
    món ngon
    bởi vì cơ thể
    yêu thích món ngon.
    Đó là vì
    món ngon
    là một tín hiệu
    cho sự hiện diện
    của các axit amin.
    Sự hiện diện
    của các axit amin
    trong ruột của chúng ta
    và trong
    hệ tiêu hóa của chúng ta
    và sự hiện diện
    của các axit béo
    là điều thiết yếu.
    Thụ thể chua,
    tại sao chúng ta lại có
    một thụ thể chua?
    Nó có mặt
    và chúng ta biết
    nó có mặt
    để phát hiện
    sự hiện diện
    của thực phẩm
    bị hỏng
    hoặc lên men.
    Trái cây lên men
    có thể độc,
    đúng không?
    Cồn
    là độc hại
    dưới nhiều hình thức
    đối với hệ thống
    của chúng ta

    các nơ-ron mang thụ thể chua
    giao tiếp
    với một khu vực
    của não giữa
    gợi lên
    phản ứng nhăn mặt,
    nhắm mắt lại
    và chủ yếu
    khép miệng
    và né tránh.
    Bây giờ,
    thụ quan thứ sáu
    trong hệ thống vị giác là gì?
    Không phải thụ quan thứ sáu
    thông thường,
    mà là trong hệ thống vị giác.
    Thụ thể thứ sáu
    được dự đoán này
    là gì?
    Hiện có dữ liệu
    hỗ trợ
    cho ý tưởng này,
    mặc dù còn nhiều công việc
    cần phải thực hiện,
    rằng chúng ta cũng có
    các thụ thể trên lưỡi của chúng ta
    nhận biết chất béo
    và rằng chính vì chất béo
    rất quan trọng
    cho chức năng
    của hệ thần kinh
    và các cơ quan khác
    của cơ thể chúng ta
    mà chúng ta đang cảm nhận
    nội dung chất béo
    trong thực phẩm.
    Tôi muốn nói
    về lưỡi
    và miệng
    như một phần mở rộng
    của ống tiêu hóa của bạn.
    Chúng ta thực chất
    là một chuỗi các ống
    và ống đó
    bắt đầu từ miệng của bạn
    và đi xuống
    dạ dày của bạn
    và vì vậy
    bạn sẽ cảm nhận
    cả lượng
    chất hóa học
    của những thứ
    mà bạn có thể
    mang vào cơ thể
    hoặc mà bạn có thể
    muốn thải ra
    và không nuốt
    hoặc không tương tác
    nó bằng cách
    có thể
    ngửi nó.
    Liệu nó có hôi thối không?
    Nó có mùi ngon không?
    Nó có vị ngon không?
    Điều này có an toàn không?
    Nó có mặn không?
    Nó có đủ chua
    đến mức đã bị lên men
    và sẽ đầu độc tôi không?
    Nó có đủ đắng
    đến mức có thể đầu độc tôi không?
    Nó có đủ ngon
    đến mức vâng,
    tôi muốn nhiều
    và nhiều hơn nữa?
    Vậy thì bạn sẽ
    muốn kích hoạt dopamine.
    Tất cả bắt đầu
    từ miệng.
    Vì vậy, bạn phải hiểu
    rằng bạn đã được trang bị
    với một
    máy cảm ứng hóa học tuyệt vời
    mà chúng ta gọi là miệng
    và lưỡi của bạn
    và những cái gồ nhỏ
    trên lưỡi của bạn
    mà họ gọi là
    các papillae,
    đó không phải là
    các nụ vị giác của bạn.
    Xung quanh những
    nhúg nhỏ đó
    như những dòng sông nhỏ
    là những cái
    vết lún và lõm
    và những cái vết lún
    và lõm
    trong mô
    cho phép
    diện tích bề mặt lớn hơn.
    Chúng cho phép bạn
    đóng gói nhiều thụ thể hơn.
    Vậy nên trong những rãnh đó
    là nơi mà tất cả
    các nơ-ron nhỏ này
    và các quá trình nhỏ của chúng
    có những
    thụ thể nhỏ này
    cho vị ngọt, mặn,
    đắng, umami, chua
    và có thể cả béo nữa.
    Nhớ rằng,
    mặc dù chúng ta có thể tận hưởng món ăn
    và chúng ta có thể phát triển
    cảm quan về việc
    cái gì là ngon hay không ngon
    tùy thuộc vào quyết định trong cuộc sống,
    thay đổi môi trường,
    v.v.
    Hệ thống vị giác,
    cũng giống như hệ thống khứu giác
    và hệ thống thị giác
    được hình thành
    để hướng tới
    những thứ tốt cho chúng ta
    và tránh xa
    những thứ xấu cho chúng ta.
    Đó là loại
    chức năng cốt lõi
    của hệ thần kinh.
    Tôi muốn nghỉ một chút
    và ghi nhận nhà tài trợ của chúng tôi,
    Our Place.
    Our Place sản xuất những
    nồi, chảo
    và các dụng cụ nấu ăn yêu thích của tôi.
    Thật ngạc nhiên,
    các hợp chất độc hại
    chẳng hạn như PFAS
    hay hóa chất vĩnh viễn
    vẫn được tìm thấy
    trong 80% chảo chống dính
    cũng như dụng cụ,
    thiết bị
    và vô số sản phẩm
    nhà bếp khác.
    Như tôi đã đề cập trước đó
    trong podcast này,
    những PFAS
    hay hóa chất vĩnh viễn
    như Teflon
    đã được liên kết
    với những vấn đề sức khỏe nghiêm trọng
    như rối loạn hormone,
    rối loạn vi sinh đường ruột,
    vấn đề sinh sản
    và nhiều vấn đề sức khỏe khác.
    Vì vậy, việc cố gắng tránh chúng
    là rất quan trọng.
    Đó là lý do tại sao tôi là một fan hâm mộ lớn
    của Our Place.
    Các sản phẩm của Our Place
    được làm từ
    các vật liệu chất lượng cao nhất
    và hoàn toàn
    không có PFAS và độc tố.
    Tôi đặc biệt thích
    chảo Titanium
    Always Pan Pro của họ.
    Đó là chiếc chảo chống dính đầu tiên
    được làm mà không có hóa chất
    và không có lớp phủ.
    Thay vào đó,
    nó sử dụng titani tinh khiết.
    Điều này có nghĩa là nó không có
    các hóa chất độc hại
    vĩnh viễn
    và không bị phân hủy
    hoặc mất đi hiệu ứng chống dính
    theo thời gian.
    Nó cũng rất đẹp
    để nhìn.
    Tôi nấu trứng
    trong chảo Titanium
    Always Pan Pro của tôi
    hầu như mỗi buổi sáng.
    Thiết kế cho phép
    trứng
    nấu hoàn hảo
    mà không bị dính vào chảo.
    Tôi cũng nấu burger
    và steak trong đó
    và nó tạo ra một lớp
    nướng rất tốt trên thịt.
    Nhưng một lần nữa,
    không có gì dính vào nó
    nên rất dễ dàng để làm sạch
    và nó còn an toàn với máy rửa bát.
    Tôi thích nó
    và tôi gần như sử dụng nó liên tục.
    Our Place bây giờ có
    một dòng sản phẩm
    dụng cụ nấu ăn Titanium Pro
    sử dụng công nghệ chống dính titanium
    đầu tiên của nó.
    Vì vậy, nếu bạn đang tìm kiếm
    nồi và chảo không độc hại,
    bền bỉ,
    hãy truy cập
    fromourplace.com
    slash Huberman
    và sử dụng mã
    Huberman
    khi thanh toán.
    Hiện tại,
    Our Place đang có
    đợt giảm giá lớn nhất
    của mùa.
    Bạn có thể tiết kiệm lên đến
    30% cho tất cả các sản phẩm
    từ bây giờ cho đến ngày 12 tháng 5,
    2025.
    Với một thử nghiệm
    không rủi ro trong 100 ngày,
    giao hàng miễn phí
    và hoàn trả miễn phí,
    bạn có thể thử
    Our Place mà không có rủi ro nào
    và xem tại sao hơn
    1 triệu người
    đã chuyển sang sử dụng
    dụng cụ nhà bếp Our Place.
    Một lần nữa,
    đó là fromourplace.com
    slash Huberman
    để được giảm giá lên đến
    30%.
    Bây giờ tôi muốn quay lại
    để nói về pheromone.
    Như tôi đã đề cập ở trên,
    các hiệu ứng pheromone thực sự
    đã được xác lập tốt
    trong động vật
    và một trong những hiệu ứng pheromone
    đáng chú ý nhất
    mà từng được mô tả
    là một mà thực ra
    tôi đã đề cập trước đây
    trong podcast này,
    nhưng tôi sẽ nhắc lại
    chỉ ngắn gọn,
    đó là hiệu ứng Coolidge.
    Hiệu ứng Coolidge
    là hiệu ứng
    của một con đực
    của một loài nhất định.
    Trong hầu hết các trường hợp,
    nó có xu hướng là một con gặm nhấm
    hoặc một con gà trống
    giao phối
    và ở một thời điểm nào đó
    đến mức kiệt sức
    hoặc không thể
    giao phối lần nữa
    bởi vì chúng đơn giản
    không thể vì lý do nào đó.
    Hiệu ứng Coolidge
    thiết lập rằng
    nếu bạn đổi gà mái
    với một con gà mái mới
    hoặc con rat
    hoặc chuột cái với một cái mới,
    thì con rat
    hoặc con gà trống
    tự nhiên lấy lại
    khả năng giao phối của chúng.
    Bằng cách nào đó, sức sống của chúng
    trở lại.
    Thời gian chờ
    sau khi giao phối
    thường xảy ra
    được xóa bỏ
    và chúng có thể giao phối lần nữa.
    Nhưng hóa ra
    rằng các con cái cũng vậy,
    các con gặm nhấm cái
    sẽ giao phối đến kiệt sức
    và tại một thời điểm nào đó,
    tại một thời điểm nào đó,
    xin lỗi,
    chúng sẽ từ chối
    giao phối nữa
    trừ khi bạn thay thế
    bằng một con đực mới.
    Và sau đó, vì giao phối
    trong các loài gặm nhấm
    liên quan đến việc con cái
    sẽ có sự tiếp nhận,
    có một số
    hành vi nhất định
    hành vi đó có nghĩa là
    nó,
    có nghĩa là cho bạn biết
    rằng nó sẵn sàng
    và muốn giao phối,
    được gọi là phản xạ lordosis.
    Sau đó, nếu có một con đực mới,
    nó sẽ tự động lấy lại
    phản xạ lordosis
    và mong muốn giao phối.
    Làm thế nào chúng ta biết
    đó là một hiệu ứng pheromone?
    Ừ,
    sự hồi phục
    của mong muốn
    và khả năng giao phối
    cả ở con đực
    và con cái
    có thể được gợi lên
    hoàn toàn
    bởi mùi hương
    của một con đực
    hoặc con cái mới.
    Nó thậm chí không cần
    phải là việc trình diện
    của động vật thực tế.
    Và đó là cách bạn biết
    rằng nó không phải
    là một tương tác nhìn
    hay một tương tác khác nào đó.
    Đó là một tương tác pheromone.
    Bây giờ,
    như tôi đã đề cập ở trên,
    các hiệu ứng pheromone,
    con người đã được bàn luận
    trong một khoảng thời gian dài.
    Chúng ta được cho là
    có một bộ phận
    chưa phát triển,
    có nghĩa là một loại
    bị thu nhỏ
    miniature
    của bộ phận khứu giác phụ
    gọi là cơ quan Jacobson
    hay cơ quan vomeronasal.
    Một số người không tin
    rằng cơ quan Jacobson tồn tại.
    Một số người thì có.
    Vì vậy, có một số vết lún
    khi bạn đi lên
    qua các lối đi mũi của bạn
    và có bằng chứng
    về một cái gì đó
    giống như vomeronasal.
    Vomeronasal là cơ quan pheromone.
    Họ gọi nó là cơ quan Jacobson
    nếu nó tồn tại ở con người.
    Nó như bị ẩn trong
    một số lỗ hổng
    trong lối đi mũi.
    Ngay cả khi cơ quan đó,
    cơ quan Jacobson,
    không tồn tại
    hoặc không chịu trách nhiệm
    cho tín hiệu hóa học
    giữa các cá thể,
    thì vẫn có tín hiệu hóa học
    giữa con người với nhau.
    Như tôi đã đề cập trước đó,
    hiệu ứng của nước mắt
    trong việc ức chế
    các vùng não
    liên quan đến mong muốn tình dục
    và testosterone của nam giới.
    Đó là một kết quả cụ thể.
    Đó là một kết quả rất tốt
    được công bố bởi một nhóm xuất sắc.
    Có bằng chứng cho cả hai khía cạnh về tín hiệu hóa học giữa phụ nữ liên quan đến sự đồng bộ hóa của chu kỳ kinh nguyệt. Bài báo gốc về vấn đề này được công bố vào những năm 1970 bởi McClintock. Bài báo đó cơ bản nói rằng khi phụ nữ sống cùng nhau trong nhà tập thể, ký túc xá và những nơi tương tự, chu kỳ kinh nguyệt của họ sẽ được đồng bộ hóa và điều đó là do những tác động mà người ta giả thuyết có liên quan đến pheromone. Theo năm tháng, nghiên cứu này đã bị thách thức rất nhiều lần. Dữ liệu gần đây chỉ ra rằng có tín hiệu hóa học giữa phụ nữ theo những cách ảnh hưởng đến thời gian của chu kỳ kinh nguyệt. Đó có phải là hiệu ứng pheromone không? Theo định nghĩa nghiêm ngặt về pheromone, là một phân tử được phát tán từ một cá thể ảnh hưởng đến sinh học của một cá thể khác, thì câu trả lời là có. Tuy nhiên, không rõ hợp chất hóa học đó là gì. Tất cả những điều này không làm tôi ngạc nhiên. Không có gì trong số này nên làm bạn ngạc nhiên. Rõ ràng là hormone có ảnh hưởng sâu sắc đến nhiều hệ thống trong sinh học của chúng ta và khả năng ngửi và nếm cũng như khả năng cảm nhận trạng thái hóa học của những người khác, dù là có ý thức hay tiềm thức, có ảnh hưởng sâu sắc đến việc liệu chúng ta có muốn dành thời gian với họ hay không, liệu đó có phải là người mà chúng ta đã gắn bó hay không, liệu đó có phải là người mà chúng ta vừa gặp và chưa tin tưởng hay không, và những vấn đề tương tự. Và với những gì đang được đặt ra trong lĩnh vực sinh học sinh sản, thật hợp lý khi nhiều phần trong sinh học của chúng ta được lập trình để phát hiện và cảm nhận liệu những điều và con người có phải là những thứ mà chúng ta nên tiếp cận hay tránh xa. Bạn và tất cả các con người khác từ khi bạn sinh ra cho đến khi bạn chết đều tìm kiếm và cảm nhận và đánh giá các hóa chất từ những cá thể khác. Đó là một nghiên cứu rất hay do Viện Weitzman thực hiện, một nhóm ở đó, tôi nghĩ cũng là nhóm của Noam Sobel, nhưng có một nhóm khác cũng tham gia, theo như tôi nhớ, nghiên cứu về tương tác giữa người với người khi họ gặp nhau lần đầu tiên. Đó là một nghiên cứu đáng chú ý bởi vì những gì họ phát hiện là mọi người sẽ tiến tới và bắt tay. Và những gì họ quan sát thấy là gần như mỗi lần, chỉ trong vài giây sau khi bắt tay với cá thể mới này, mọi người sẽ chạm vào mắt của họ. Họ đang tiếp nhận hóa chất từ sự tiếp xúc của da và đặt nó lên một màng nhầy nào đó, thường thì không phải ở mũi hay trong miệng, mà thường là lên mắt. Tin hay không thì tùy, nhưng bạn đang đánh dấu người khác khi bạn bắt tay và họ sau đó sẽ tiếp nhận dấu ấn của bạn và chà nó lên chính họ một cách tiềm thức. Vì vậy, tất cả chúng ta đều thực hiện những hành vi này và giờ đây khi bạn đã nhận thức được điều đó, bạn có thể quan sát nó trong môi trường của bạn, chú ý đến mọi người. Chúng ta đang đánh giá các phân tử trong hơi thở của mọi người. Chúng ta đang đánh giá các phân tử trên da của mọi người bằng cách tích cực chà xát lên chính mình. Và chúng ta đang tham gia tích cực vào việc cảm nhận các hóa chất mà họ phát ra, tình trạng hormone của họ, họ có mùi như thế nào. Chúng ta đang phát hiện ra có thể là pheromone, nhưng chắc chắn là các mùi trong hơi thở của họ. Hôm nay, chúng ta đã nói rất nhiều về khứu giác, vị giác và cảm nhận hóa học giữa các cá thể. Tôi thích nghĩ rằng bạn đã biết rất nhiều về cách hệ thống khứu giác của bạn hoạt động và tại sao việc hít vào là một điều tốt để làm, nói chung, để đánh thức não của bạn và để cải thiện chức năng nhận thức và nâng cao cảm giác mùi của bạn. Chúng ta đã thảo luận về tín hiệu hóa học giữa những cá nhân như một cách để giao tiếp về một số khía cạnh quan trọng của sinh học. Mọi người đang hình thành sinh học của nhau mọi lúc thông qua những hóa chất được trao đổi từ cơ thể này sang cơ thể khác qua không khí, tiếp xúc da và nước mắt. Cuối cùng nhưng không kém phần quan trọng, tôi muốn cảm ơn bạn vì thời gian và sự chú ý của bạn, cũng như sự sẵn lòng chấp nhận các khái niệm và thuật ngữ mới và học hỏi về khoa học và sinh học và các quy trình mà hy vọng có thể mang lại lợi ích cho bạn và những người mà bạn biết. Và chắc chắn, cảm ơn bạn vì sự quan tâm của bạn đối với khoa học.
    歡迎來到 Huberman Lab Essentials,
    在這裡我們重溫過去的節目,
    尋找最有效且可行的科學工具,
    用於心理健康、身體健康和表現。
    我是 Andrew Huberman,
    斯坦福醫學院神經生物學和眼科的教授。
    這個播客與我在斯坦福的教學和研究角色是分開的。
    今天,我們將討論化學感知。
    我們將談論嗅覺,
    我們在環境中檢測氣味的能力。
    我們還將談論味覺,
    我們檢測化學物質並理解放入嘴中
    以及進入消化道的化學物質的能力。
    我們也將談論其他人類產生的化學物質,
    這些化學物質強烈地調節我們的感覺、
    荷爾蒙和健康。
    現在,這最後一類有時被稱為費洛蒙。
    然而,費洛蒙是否存在於人類之中,
    這是相當有爭議的。
    實際上,並沒有清晰的例子
    來證明真正的人類費洛蒙效應,
    但可以肯定的是,
    人類製造並釋放出一些化學物質,
    例如通過眼淚釋放至皮膚、汗水甚至呼吸,
    這些化學物質強烈調節或控制他人身體的生物學。
    環境中有一些漂浮的東西,
    我們稱之為揮發性化學物質。
    所以當你實際上嗅到某種氣味時,
    比如說你嗅到一朵香氣四溢的玫瑰或蛋糕,
    是的,你正將這些顆粒吸入鼻子裡。
    這些化學物質的微小顆粒
    確實進入了你的鼻腔,
    並被你的大腦檢測到。
    進入我們系統的其他方式
    是將它們放入嘴裡,
    通過實際吃食物、咀嚼它們
    或吸吮並將其分解成組成部件。
    這是我們用舌頭感知化學物質的一種方式。
    所以這些化學物質有時候是通過故意的行為
    被引入我們的身體與生物學之中。
    我們選擇一種食物,然後咀嚼這種食物,
    而且我們是有意而為的。
    有時,它們則是通過非故意的行為
    進入我們的身體。
    我們進入一個環境,
    然後有煙霧,我們嗅到煙霧。
    因此,我們採取行動。
    然而,有時,其他人正在主動地用他們的身體製造化學物質。
    通常,這是通過他們的呼吸、淚水,
    或可能,我想強調可能,
    通過釋放所謂的費洛蒙,
    這些分子釋放到環境中,
    通常是通過呼吸,
    這些化學物質通過我們的鼻子、眼睛或嘴進入我們的系統,
    從而從根本上改變我們的生物學。
    我想舉一個例子,
    這是一個非常突出且有趣的例子,
    大約十年前發表在《科學》期刊上,
    顯示人類,特別是在這項研究中的男性,
    對女性的眼淚有強烈的生物反應
    和荷爾蒙反應。
    他們讓女性(在這個場合下,只有女性因為某種原因)哭泣,
    並收集她們的眼淚。
    然後這些眼淚被男性受試者嗅到,
    或者男性受試者得到的實際上是對照組,即生理鹽水。
    嗅到這些因悲傷而產生的眼淚的男性,
    其睪酮水平有明顯降低。
    他們在與性唤起相關的大腦區域的活躍度也有下降。
    他們實際上招募了對於悲劇電影有高哭泣傾向的受試者,
    而這並不全是女性。
    他們真正想做的
    是獲取那些因悲傷而真實哭泣產生的眼淚,
    而不是,譬如說,
    對眼睛施加某種刺激並收集因其他原因而引起的眼淚,如眼睛受到刺激。
    儘管如此,
    這項研究所表明的是,
    眼淚中存在某些化學物質,
    這些化學物質能夠喚起或改變
    其他個體的生物學。
    現在,
    我不選擇這項研究作為例子
    是因為我想專注於眼淚對荷爾蒙的影響,
    儘管我確實覺得這些結果
    非常有趣。
    我選擇它是因為
    我想強調或凸顯的事實是
    其他個體製造的化學物質
    強烈地調節著我們的內部狀態。
    這是大多數人不太會認識到的事情。
    我認為我們大多數人可以理解,
    如果我們聞到某種腐臭的氣味,
    我們往往會退縮,
    或者如果我們聞到某種美味的氣味,
    我們傾向於迎接它。
    但在這些方面,
    化學物質正在影響我們的生物學,
    而用化學物質進行人際溝通
    不是我們常常聽到的主題,
    但這確實是非常有趣的。
    所以讓我們談談嗅覺
    以及嗅覺是什麼,如何運作。
    我將這個解釋得非常基本,
    但我會觸及神經生物學的一些核心元素。
    所以嗅覺的運作方式如下。
    如你們中的許多人所知,
    我每天服用 AG1 已經超過 13 年。
    然而,
    我現在發現
    了一種更好的
    維生素礦物質益生菌飲品。
    這種新且更好的飲品
    是最近推出的全新改良版 AG1。
    這款 AG1 的下一代配方
    比我這幾年每天服用的產品
    更加先進,臨床支持版本。
    它包含新的生物可利用營養素
    和增強的益生菌。
    這款下一代配方是基於
    對益生菌影響腸道微生物組的新研究。
    現在它包含幾個特定的
    經過臨床研究的益生菌株,
    這些益生菌株已被證明
    支持消化健康和免疫系統健康,
    以及改善腸道規律性並減少脹氣。
    作為一名參與了超過三十年
    研究科學及健康與健身的專家,
    我不斷尋找
    改善我的心理健康、身體健康
    和表現的最佳工具。
    我發現並開始在2012年服用AG1,早在我擁有播客之前,自那以後我每天都在服用。我發現這大大改善了我健康的各個方面。當我服用它時,我感覺好得多,我認為自己能夠持續工作長時間這幾年,並在同時過著充實的生活,擁有大量的精力,良好的睡眠,沒有生病等等,很大程度上要歸功於AG1。當然,我還做許多其他事情。 我運動,飲食正確等等,但隨著每年歲月的流逝,順便說一句,我今年九月要滿50歲,我仍然感覺越來越好,而我將這一切歸功於AG1。AG1使用最高品質的原材料,並以正確的組合呈現,並持續改善其配方而不增加成本。因此,我很榮幸能夠將他們作為這個播客的贊助商。如果您想嘗試AG1,可以前往 drinkag1.com/huberman 來獲得特別優惠。現在,AG1正在贈送一個AG1歡迎包,其中包含五個免費旅行包和一瓶免費的維他命D3 K2。再次,請前往 drinkag1.com/huberman 以獲取這個特別的歡迎包,裡面有五個免費旅行包和一瓶免費的維他命D3 K2。
    嗅覺是從嗅聞開始的。這可能並不令人驚訝,但沒有揮發性化學物質能進入我們的鼻子,除非我們吸入它們。如果我們的鼻子被堵住,或者我們正在主動呼氣,氣味進入我們鼻子的難度就大大增加,這就是為什麼人們在遇到難聞的氣味時會捂住鼻子的原因。而這些揮發性氣味進入鼻子的方式是有趣的。鼻子有一層黏膜,黏液,旨在捕捉事物,實際上是將物質帶入並卡在那裡。在你大腦的基底,您可以想像這個位置,或者如果您願意,您可以觸摸您口腔的上方,但就在嘴巴上方約兩公分的地方是您的嗅球。嗅球是一群神經元,這些神經元實際上延伸出顱骨,進入您的鼻子,深入黏膜。因此,從字面意義上來說,這意味著您有神經元伸出它們的小樹突和軸突等,將它們的小過程伸進黏液中,並且對不同的氣味化合物做出反應。嗅覺神經元還向大腦更深處發送一個分支,並分成三條不同的路徑。因此,一條路徑是我們所謂的天然氣味反應。您對世界的嗅覺方式有一些天生的硬連接,從您出生的那一天起就存在,直到您去世的那一天都會存在。這些是反應於像煙霧這樣事物的通道,正如您可以想像的那樣,檢測燃燒物品是一種高度適應的功能,因為燃燒的東西通常意味著安全的缺失或某種即將來臨的威脅。這呼喚行動,確實這些神經元會投射到大腦的一個中央區域,稱為杏仁核,常常與恐懼有關,但實際上它是與恐懼和威脅檢測有關。您也有一些神經元在您的鼻子裡,對氣味或氣味的組合做出反應,這些氣味引起了欲望的感覺,以及我們所稱的食慾行為,接近行為,使您想要朝著某個方向移動。因此,當您嗅到美味的餅乾或特別可口的菜餚時,這是因為這些天生的通道,這些不需要學習的通道。
    現在,鼻子的某些通道,這些嗅覺神經元進入大腦,與氣味的學習聯繫有關。許多人有這種經歷,他們能記得他們祖母家的氣味,或者在特定環境下,某些東西在烘焙或鍋爐上的氣味。通常,這些記憶往往具有某種養護性的感覺,讓人感到安全和被保護,但嗅覺為什麼與記憶如此密切相關的原因之一是因為嗅覺是我們擁有的最古老的感官。因此,我們有對天然反應的通道和對學習反應的通道。然後我們還有另一種通道,對於人類來說,這有點有爭議,是否它真正獨立於標準的嗅覺系統,或者是否嵌入其中是一個自己的系統,但他們稱之為輔助嗅覺通道。輔助嗅覺通道對其他動物來說負責真正的信息素效應。例如,在啮齒動物和某些靈長類動物中,包括鰓猴。如果您見過鰓猴,它們有像大喙的鼻子。您可能在動物園見過它們。如果您還沒有見過,請搜尋一下。鰓猴有強烈的信息素效應。其中一些包括,如果您帶走一隻懷孕的雌性啮齒動物或鰓猴,然後帶走那隻製造這些胎兒的父親,並且您引入了一隻新雄性的尿液或毛髮的氣味,她會自動流產或流掉那些胎兒。這是一種非常強大的效應。另一例子是稱為Vandenberg效應,這是以發現這一效應的人命名的,當您帶走一隻尚未進入青春期的雌性來與來自一隻性成熟的雄性的尿液接觸時,她會自動提前進入青春期。因此,這種氣味觸發了一些東西,透過這個輔助嗅覺系統。這是真正的費洛蒙效應,並創造了排卵,對吧,而在啮齒動物中,是發情周期,而不是月經周期。因此,這並不是說人類會發生完全相同的事情。
    在人類中,正如我之前提到的,個體之間存在化學感知,這可能與鼻子無關,但基本上這就是氣味、嗅覺影響我們的三種途徑。所以我想談談嗅覺的行為。如果你不是對氣味特別感興趣的人,但你希望讓大腦運作得更好、學習得更快、記憶更多東西,那麼接下來這段小節就是為你準備的,因為事實證明,嗅覺的行為,也就是嗅氣味的動作,並不是你聞起來有多好或多壞,而是嗅的行為、嗅吸和吸入,強烈影響著你的大腦功能,以及你能學習什麼和不能學習什麼。戈納·索貝爾的團隊最初在加州大學伯克利分校,後來在魏茨曼研究所發表了多篇論文,今天我們將討論其中的一篇,其中一篇是關於“人類非嗅覺認知與吸入的相位鎖定”,這篇文章發表在《自然人類行為》這本優秀的期刊上。隨著我們的吸氣,這篇文章顯示大腦的警覺性水平會上升,這是可以理解的,因為吸入是我們與環境互動、將化學物質引入體內並感知環境的最原始的感官之一,吸氣是一個信號,提示大腦的其他部分基本上要注意正在發生什麼,而不僅僅是氣味。正如這篇論文的標題所示,“人類非嗅覺認知與吸入的相位鎖定”,這意味著吸入這一行為本身會喚醒大腦。這不是關於你感知到什麼或你聞到什麼,事實上,嗅的動作、吸入的動作對於你的警覺性、注意力、專注力以及記憶資訊的能力有著強大的影響。當我們呼氣時,大腦的興奮水平和學習能力會經歷一個微妙但卻顯著的下降。那麼你應該如何利用這一知識呢?好吧,你可以想像,我認為這對大多數人都有益,就是在做任何不需要說話、吃東西或攝入某種物質的專注工作時,專注於用鼻子呼吸。有一篇發表在《神經科學雜誌》的論文顯示,實際上,如果人類受試者被限制只能通過鼻子呼吸,他們的學習效果會比可以選擇通過嘴呼吸或同時通過鼻子和嘴呼吸要好。現在,還有其他一些方法可以進一步喚醒你的大腦。例如,使用嗅鹽。我並不一定推薦你這樣做,但是有很好的同行評審數據顯示,實際上,如果你使用嗅鹽,這主要是包含氨的嗅鹽,氨是一種非常有毒的氣味,但它以一種觸發這種內在通路的方式有毒,從鼻子到杏仁核,並以一種主要的方式喚醒大腦和身體。這就是為什麼在有人昏厥時會使用嗅鹽。它們有效,因為它們觸發大腦的恐懼和整體興奮系統。這就是為什麼我認為大多數人可能不應該使用氨或嗅鹽來試圖喚醒自己,但它們確實有效。現在,通過鼻子吸氣以及進行鼻呼吸,將是一種更微妙的喚醒你的系統,使整體大腦警覺的方法。對於那些對與氣味和味道之間的聯繫感興趣的人來說,練習或增強你的嗅覺能力可能聽起來有點荒謬,但它實際上是一種有趣且酷的實驗。你只需進行簡單的實驗,舉例來說,一個橘子,你先聞它,然後做10或15次吸氣,當然,然後再呼氣,或者僅僅通過鼻子吸。我要做的不是10或15次再聞一次。你會注意到你對那種氣味的感知,氣味的豐富性將顯著增加。因此,你實際上可以體驗到更深刻的感受。當然,這對味覺系統也會是如此。 我想稍作休息,感謝我們的一個贊助商,Element。Element是一種電解質飲料,包含你所需的一切,卻不含多餘的東西。這意味著電解質,包括鈉、鎂和鉀按正確的比例存在,但不含糖。我們都應該知道,適當的水合作用對於大腦和身體的最佳功能至關重要。事實上,即使是輕微的脫水,也可能在相當大程度上降低你的認知和體力表現。同樣重要的是,不僅要保持水分,還要獲得足夠的電解質,並以正確的比例攝入。將一包Element溶解在水中飲用,可以非常輕鬆地確保你獲得足夠的水分和電解質。為了確保我獲得足夠的水分和電解質,我早上醒來時會將一包Element溶解在大約16到32盎司的水中,然後基本上在早上第一件事就飲用它。任何時候我進行體力運動時,尤其是在熱天大量出汗並失去水分和電解質時,我也會飲用一包溶解在水中的Element。Element有很多美味的口味,我喜歡西瓜、我喜歡覆盆子、我喜歡柑橘,基本上我都喜歡。如果你想嘗試Element,可以訪問drinkelement.com斜線Huberman,通過購買任何Element飲料混合物來索取Element樣本包。再次強調,這是drinkelement,拼寫為L-M-N-T,所以是drinkelement。
    com
    斜線 Huberman
    以索取免費樣品包。
    您也可以真正訓練您的嗅覺,使其變得更好。
    在我所了解的身體系統中,
    沒有其他系統能如此適應
    這種類型的行為訓練改變,
    並且讓它們如此迅速地發生。
    事實上,
    我們嗅覺和味覺的好壞
    實際上是我們大腦健康的
    一個非常強的指標。
    所以我們的嗅覺神經元,
    這些在鼻子中的神經元
    用來檢測氣味,
    在其他大腦神經元中
    是非常獨特的,
    因為它們在整個生命過程中都會被補充。
    它們不僅僅是再生,
    而是不斷得到補充。
    所以再生
    是指當某樣東西受損後
    再生長的情況。
    這些神經元
    在我們的壽命中不斷翻新。
    它們不斷被補充,
    它們正在衰亡,
    並被新的神經元取代。
    這非常有趣,
    因為在你的大腦皮層中、
    在你的視網膜中、
    在你的小腦中,
    其他神經元則不這樣做。
    它們不會在整個生命中不斷被補充。
    但這些神經元,
    這些嗅覺神經元卻是,
    它們是特別的。
    有一些因素
    似乎能增加
    嗅覺神經元的神經再生。
    有證據顯示
    運動、血流
    可以增加
    嗅覺神經元的神經再生。
    雖然那些數據
    比起社交互動
    或實際接觸不同類型的氣味
    要少得多。
    但我希望能賦予你一些
    使你能保持這些系統
    運作正常的工具。
    上次我們談到了
    如何調整和保持你的視覺系統
    無論年齡增長始終健康。
    這裡我們談到的
    是通過與氣味進行多次互動
    來真正增強你的嗅覺能力
    和味覺能力,
    最好是與積極的氣味互動
    並多聞嗅、
    多吸入氣味,
    這聽起來幾乎有些瘋狂。
    但現在你明白為什麼
    即使這聽起來瘋狂,
    它是基於
    真實的機械生物學,
    說明了大腦如何甦醒
    並對這些化學物質作出反應。
    現在,談到腦部受傷,
    嗅覺功能障礙
    是在創傷性腦損傷中
    一個常見的主題,原因如下:
    這些嗅覺神經元,
    正如我所提到的,
    將纜線延伸進入
    鼻腔的粘膜中,
    而且它們也能延伸
    一根纜線進入顱腔。
    它們經由所謂的
    篩板進入顱腔。
    這就像一種瑞士奶酪
    類型的圓盤,
    當你受到頭部撞擊時,
    篩板那一塊骨頭
    會切斷那些小纜線,
    導致那些神經元死亡。
    當然,最終它們會被替換,
    但有一種現象
    可以衡量腦震盪的程度
    及其嚴重性,
    以及頭部受傷後的恢復,
    這部分取決於
    一個人在恢復嗅覺方面的表現。
    因此,如果你不幸
    遭受了腦震盪,
    你的嗅覺
    是一個你評估的
    指標之一,
    可以用來衡量
    你是否正在恢復
    某些感覺表現。
    當然,
    還有其他指標,如平衡、認知、睡眠等等。
    但我想向你推薦一篇非常好的論文,
    題為《創傷性腦損傷中的嗅覺功能障礙,神經再生的作用》。
    第一作者是 Marin,
    M-A-R-I-N。
    這篇論文發表在《當前過敏與哮喘報告》中。
    時間是2020年。
    我花了一些時間
    閱讀這篇論文。
    這篇論文非常好。
    它是一篇綜述文章。
    我喜歡綜述文章,
    如果它們是經過同行評審的綜述文章。
    他們討論的是,
    我在這裡簡要引用,
    因為他們表達得比我好。
    嗅覺功能障礙
    在創傷性腦損傷(TBI)後非常常見,
    並且會對生活質量產生重大影響,
    儘管對於失去嗅覺的患者
    並沒有標準的治療。
    我現在在引用
    受傷後的內容。
    嗅覺訓練
    顯示出有益的效果,
    但這意味著什麼?
    這意味著如果你曾經受過頭部傷害
    或反复受傷,
    那麼增強你的嗅覺
    是創造
    新神經元的一種方式,
    而現在你知道
    如何通過與有氣味的物體
    密切互動,
    以及實際上
    多吸入氣味,
    來增強你的嗅覺,
    專注於吸入,
    以喚醒大腦,
    並真正專注
    於那些氣味的一些細微之處。
    最後一點,
    關於可以提高
    覺醒和警覺的特定
    氣味和化合物,
    這只是通過聞嗅它們,
    而不是通過攝取它們。
    有數據,
    相信與否,
    有關於薄荷的好數據
    以及薄荷的氣味。
    薄荷類氣味,
    無論你是否喜歡,
    都將提高注意力,
    並能產生
    同樣的覺醒反應,
    儘管不如氨鹽
    那樣強烈或明顯。
    順便提一下,
    請不要去嗅真實的氨。
    如果你靠得太近氨,那麼你可能會真正損害
    你的嗅覺上皮。
    如果你打算使用
    嗅鹽,
    一定要與某人一起使用,
    或確保你知道你在獲得什麼
    和如何使用它。
    你可能會以相當嚴重的方式
    損害你的嗅覺通路。
    你也可能會損害你的視力。
    如果你曾因吸入某種真正有害的東西而流淚,
    那可不是好事情,
    但這意味著你
    刺激了粘膜內襯,
    甚至可能刺激了你的眼睛表面,
    所以請非常非常小心。
    像薄荷和這些氨氣嗅鹽的氣味,
    之所以能讓你清醒,
    是因為它們會激發
    特定的嗅覺神經元,
    這些神經元會與
    大腦中特定的中心交流,
    即杏仁核
    以及相關的神經路徑,
    這些路徑觸發警覺,
    跟冷水淋浴、冰浴,
    或突如其來的驚訝
    或壓力的簡訊會引發的警覺相同。
    記住,你身體內產生興奮、警覺和注意力的系統,以及能夠為最佳學習提供提示,即所謂的集中,那些都是非常一般的機制。它們涉及非常基本的分子,例如腎上腺素和腎上腺素。實際上是同一個東西,腎上腺素和腎上腺素。能引發這種腎上腺素反應和醒來反應的刺激數量,不論是薄荷、氨或是響亮的爆炸聲,都是幾乎無限的,這就是你神經系統的美妙之處。它被設計用來接受各種不同的刺激,將它們歸類,然後引發不同類別的非常一般的反應。
    現在,你對嗅覺和嗅覺如何運作已經知道很多了。讓我們來談談味覺,意思是我們如何感知食物和飲料中的化學物質。本質上有五種,但科學家現在認為可能有六種我們單獨或組合品嚐的味道。它們是甜味、鹹味、苦味、酸味和鮮味。你們中的大多數人可能已經聽過鮮味。它是U-M-A-M-I。鮮味實際上是你在舌頭上表達的特定受體的名稱,用來檢測美味的味道。每一種味道在你的口腔、在你的舌頭中,都有一組特定的神經元,信不信由你,它們會對特定的化學物質和特定的化學結構作出反應。關於你舌頭的不同部分擁有不同的味覺受體,這完全是一個神話,完全是虛構的。你知道,那張高中教科書上的圖示,說什麼甜味在舌頭的一部分,酸味在另一個部分,苦味在另一個部分。它們在你的舌頭上是完全混合在一起的。因此,舌頭上的所有這些受體構成了所謂的神經元,這些神經元形成了一條神經,一組神經纜線,叫做味覺神經。舌頭的味覺神經將信號傳遞到孤 tract 的核,然後到丘腦,再到島皮層。而這個島皮層,是我們大腦皮層的一個區域,在這裡我們將各種味道進行分類和理解、感知。
    現在,這是令人驚奇的,因為只需一小口糖或有些酸的東西,比如一小口檸檬汁,接觸你的舌頭,在100毫秒內,對吧?就100毫秒,遠少於一秒鐘,你就能立即分辨出,啊,那是酸的,那是甜的,那是苦的,那是鮮的。而這是由大腦皮層做出的評估。
    現在,這五種不同的受體編碼什麼呢?甜、鹹、苦、鮮、酸,但它們實際上在尋找什麼?它們在感知什麼?嗯,甜味的東西表示能量或糖的存在。儘管我們都在努力,或被告知應該減少糖的攝入,出於各種原因,但感知食物是否具有快速能源來源或可能產生葡萄糖的能力是至關重要的。所以我們有甜味受體。鹹味受體,這些神經元試圖感知給定食物或飲料中是否存在電解質。電解質對我們的神經系統和整個身體的功能至關重要。苦味受體則存在以確保我們不攝入有毒物質。苦味受體創造了一種我們稱之為標記線的感覺,這是一種獨特的軌跡,通向控制反胃反射的腦幹神經元。如果我們品嚐的東西非常苦,它會自動觸發反胃反射。腐臭的氣味也會激發這些相同的神經元。鮮味受體並不是因為身體喜愛美味而感知鮮味,而是因為鮮味是氨基酸存在的信號。在我們的腸道和消化系統中,氨基酸和脂肪酸的存在是至關重要的。酸味受體,我們為什麼會有酸味受體?它的存在是為了檢測腐壞或發酵的食物的存在。發酵的水果可能是有毒的,對吧?一些形式的酒精對我們的系統是有毒的,而酸味受體所擁有的神經元會與大腦幹的一個區域通信,該區域觸發了噘嘴反應,閉合眼睛,並本質上關閉嘴巴和縮起身體。
    現在,在味覺系統中,第六種感覺是什麼?不是一般的第六感,而是在味覺系統中。這個假設的可能的第六個受體是什麼?現在已有數據支持這個想法,儘管仍需更多的工作,但我們舌頭上也有感知脂肪的受體。因為脂肪對我們的神經系統和我們身體其他器官的功能至關重要,我們能夠感知食物中的脂肪含量。我想談談舌頭和口腔作為你消化道的延伸。我們本質上是一系列的管道,而這個管道始於你的口腔,然後向下延伸到你的胃,因此你能夠感知進入你身體或你可能想要排出的化學成分,通過嗅覺來感知。它是腐臭的嗎?它氣味好嗎?好吃嗎?這是安全的嗎?它是鹹的嗎?是那種酸到會發酵並會毒害我的嗎?是那種苦到可能會毒害我的嗎?是那種鮮到我會想要更多和更多的嗎?那麼你就會想要觸發多巴胺。這一切都是從口腔開始的。因此,你必須明白,你擁有這種令人驚嘆的化學感知裝置,我們稱之為你的口腔和舌頭,而那些被稱為乳頭的小突起,並不是你的味蕾。
    圍繞著那些小乳突的,就像小河流一樣,有這些小凹槽和凹陷,而這些凹槽和凹陷在組織中的作用是增加更多的表面積。它們讓你能夠容納更多的受體。在那些凹槽裡,所有這些小神經元及其小突起,還有這些針對甜、鹹、苦、鮮、酸,可能還有脂肪的小受體都在那裡。記住,儘管我們可以享受食物,我們的味覺也會根據生活選擇、環境變化等不斷演變, decide於什麼是好吃的,什麼不是。味覺系統,就像嗅覺系統和視覺系統一樣,建立的目的是讓我們朝著對我們有益的事物前進,遠離對我們有害的事物。這就是神經系統的核心功能。
    我想簡單休息一下,感謝我們的贊助商 Our Place。Our Place 製造我最喜愛的鍋具、炒鍋及其他廚具。令人驚訝的是,像 PFASs 或永遠化學物質等有毒化合物,仍然出現在 80% 的不沾鍋中,以及餐具、電器和無數其他廚房產品中。正如我之前在這個播客中提到的,這些 PFAS 或永久化學物質,如特氟龍,已被證實與主要的健康問題有關,如荷爾蒙干擾、腸道微生物群擾動、不孕不育以及許多其他健康問題。因此,儘量避免它們真的是非常重要的。這就是為什麼我非常喜愛 Our Place 的原因。Our Place 的產品使用最高品質的材料,並且完全不含 PFAS 和毒素。我特別喜愛他們的鈦金屬永不沾鍋 Pro。這是第一款不含任何化學物質和塗層的不沾鍋。相反,它使用純鈦。這意味著它不含有害的永遠化學物質,而且隨著時間的推移不會退化或失去不沾效果。它的外觀也非常美麗。我幾乎每個早晨都用我的鈦金屬永不沾鍋 Pro 煮蛋。其設計使得雞蛋能夠完美烹煮而不會粘鍋。我也用它煮漢堡和牛排,能讓肉表面形成一個很好的焦脆層。不過,什麼都不會粘在鍋上,這讓清洗變得非常容易,甚至可以放進洗碗機。我真的很喜歡它,幾乎是不停地使用。Our Place 現在有全系列的鈦金屬 Pro 廚具,使用獨一無二的鈦金屬不沾技術。所以如果你在尋找無毒且持久的鍋具,可以到 fromourplace.com/slash Huberman,並在結帳時使用代碼 Huberman。現在 Our Place 正在進行本季最大促銷。你可以在 2025 年 5 月 12 日之前享受所有產品最多 30% 的折扣。提供 100 天的無風險試用,免費運送和免運費退貨,你可以零風險地試用 Our Place,看看為什麼超過 100 萬人選擇了 Our Place 的廚具。再次強調,是 fromourplace.com/slash Huberman 來獲得最多 30% 的折扣。
    現在我想回到費洛蒙的話題。正如我之前提到的,真正的費洛蒙效應在動物中已經得到充分證實,而曾經描述過的最引人注目的費洛蒙效應之一,其實我在這個播客中已經提到過,但我將簡單再提一下,那就是酷立芝效應。酷立芝效應是指某一物種的雄性。在大多數情況下,它往往是某種囓齒類動物或公雞交配,並在某個時候達到疲憊或無法再交配的狀態,因為無論出於何種原因,它們就是無法。酷立芝效應確立了,如果你將母雞換成新的母雞,或將雌性老鼠換成新的雌鼠,然後老鼠或公雞會自發地恢復其交配能力。某種程度上,它們的活力被喚醒。交配後的 refractory 期通常會消失,它們可以再次交配。但事實上,雌性稍微也會,雌性囓齒類動物會交配到疲憊,並且在某些時刻,抱歉,在某些時刻,她們將拒絕再交配,除非你換上新的雄性。因為在囓齒類動物中,交配涉及到雌性必須是接受的,所以有一定數量的行為—這些行為意味著她願意想要交配,所謂的 Lordosis 反射。當有一隻新的雄性時,她將自動恢復 Lordosis 反射及交配的慾望。我們怎麼知道這是費洛蒙效應呢?因為,雄性和雌性交配的慾望和能力的恢復都可以完全通過新的雄性或雌性的氣味來誘發,甚至不需要實際動物的出現。這就是你知道這不是某種視覺互動或其他互動,而是費洛蒙互動的方式。
    正如我之前提到的,費洛蒙效應在人類中已經爭議了很長一段時間。據說我們擁有一種殘餘的、即一種縮小的迷你附加嗅球,稱為雅各布森器官或嗅鈴器。有些人不相信雅各布森器官存在,有些人則相信。因此,在你的鼻道上升的過程中會有一些凹槽,並且有證據顯示某種類似嗅鈴器的東西。嗅鈴器是參與費洛蒙的器官,假如它在人類中存在,就叫做雅各布森器官。它隱藏在鼻道的一些凹陷裡。即使那個器官,即使雅各布森器官不在,或不負責個體之間的化學信號傳遞,人類之間仍然存在著化學信號傳遞。正如我之前提到的,眼淚在抑制與性慾和男性睾酮相關的大腦區域方面的作用,這是一個具體的結果。這是一個由一個優秀團隊發表的非常好的結果。
    以下是翻譯成繁體中文的文本:
    也有證據顯示,
    在女性之間有化學信號
    的存在,支持和反對的論點
    有關月經週期的同步性。
    最初這方面的論文
    是由麥克林托克(McClintock)於1970年代發表的。
    它本質上指出,
    當女性一起居住
    在集體宿舍、宿舍
    等類似環境中時,
    她們的月經週期
    會同步,這被假設
    是由於類信息素的影響。
    多年間,
    這項研究
    遭到過多次質疑。
    最近的數據
    指向這樣的觀點:
    女性之間存在
    化學-化學信號,
    以影響
    月經週期的時間。
    這是信息素的影響嗎?
    根據對信息素的嚴格定義,
    即從個體釋放的分子
    影響另一個個體的生物學,
    是的。
    目前尚不清楚
    具體的化學化合物是什麼。
    這些都不讓我感到驚訝,
    也不應該讓你驚訝。
    顯而易見的是,
    激素對我們生物中的大量系統
    有深遠的影響,
    而嗅覺和味覺
    及感知他人化學狀態的能力,
    無論是有意識的
    還是潛意識的,
    都會深刻影響
    我們是否想要
    與他們共度時光,
    是否這是我們
    配對的對象,
    或是剛認識
    還不太信任的人,
    類似的事情。
    考慮到生殖生物學的風險,
    我們的生物學
    被設計成偵測
    和感知事物和人,
    這些應該是我們
    接近或避免的對象,
    這有很大的道理。
    從你出生的那一刻起,
    到你去世,
    你和每一個人類
    都在主動尋找、
    感知和評估
    來自其他個體的化學物質。
    這是一項非常好的研究,
    由維茲曼研究所(Weitzman Institute)
    的團隊進行,
    我想這也是
    諾姆·索貝爾(Noam Sobel)的團隊,
    但似乎還有其他團隊,
    據我記得,
    他們研究了人與人之間的互動
    在第一次見面時的情況。
    這是一項卓越的研究,
    因為他們發現人們會伸出手
    並握手。
    他們觀察到
    幾乎每次在握手後的幾秒鐘內,
    人們會觸摸自己的眼睛。
    他們在進行皮膚接觸後,
    將化學物質轉到某種黏膜膜上,
    通常不是放進鼻子或嘴裡,
    通常是在眼睛上。
    信不信由你,
    當你握手時,
    你在標記其他人,
    然後他們會
    潛意識地將你的標記
    擦在自己身上。
    所以我們都會
    做這種行為,
    現在你意識到這一點,
    可以在你的環境中觀察到它,
    可以注意到周圍的人。
    我們在評估
    人們呼吸中的分子。
    我們在通過主動摩擦
    來評估
    人們皮膚上的分子。
    我們積極參與
    感知他們所釋放的化學物質,
    他們的激素狀態,
    他們的氣味。
    我們可能在檢測
    信息素,但肯定是在檢查
    他們呼吸中的氣味。
    今天我們談了很多
    有關嗅覺、味覺
    和個體之間的化學感知。
    我喜歡認為
    你現在對
    你的嗅覺系統如何運作
    有了很多了解,
    以及為什麼吸氣
    對於喚醒大腦、
    認知功能
    及增強
    你的嗅覺能力
    是非常好的事情。
    我們還談到了
    個體之間的化學信號
    作為溝通
    一些重要生物學方面的方法。
    人們隨時隨地
    通過這些化學物質
    互相塑造著
    彼此的生物學,
    這些化學物質
    是通過空氣和皮膚接觸
    以及眼淚
    從一個身體轉移到下一個身體的。
    最後但同樣重要的是,
    我想感謝你
    花時間和精力
    並願意
    接受新概念
    和術語,
    並了解科學、
    生物學
    和希望能夠讓你受益
    以及你所認識的人的協議。
    當然,
    感謝你對科學的興趣。

    In this Huberman Lab Essentials episode, I explore how your sense of smell (olfaction), taste, and chemical sensing influence memory, alertness, focus, and even communication between people.

    I explain how these senses help us detect chemicals in the environment and respond to a variety of environmental cues. I discuss the connection between the olfactory system and cognitive performance, and I provide practical tools to enhance learning, sensory function, and brain health. Additionally, I examine how chemical signals exchanged between people subtly influence emotions, biology, and social bonds.

    Huberman Lab Essentials episodes are approximately 30 minutes long and focus on key science and protocol takeaways from past Huberman Lab episodes. Essentials are released every Thursday, while full-length episodes continue to air every Monday.

    Read the episode show notes at hubermanlab.com.

    Thank you to our sponsors

    AG1: https://drinkag1.com/huberman

    LMNT: https://drinklmnt.com/huberman

    Our Place: https://fromourplace.com/huberman

    Timestamps

    00:00:00 Huberman Lab Essentials; Smell & Taste

    00:02:04 Tears, Biological Response & Communication

    00:05:16 Sponsor: AG1

    00:07:16 Smell, Innate vs Learned Response, Memory

    00:10:31 Accessory Olfactory Pathway, Pheromones, Vandenbergh
    effect

    00:12:42 Smell & Alertness, Smelling Salts, Tool: Nasal
    Breathing & Learning

    00:16:06 Tool: Increase Sense of Smell

    00:16:51 Sponsor: LMNT

    00:18:07 Smell, Brain Health, Olfactory Neurons, Tool:
    Improve Smell

    00:20:11 Traumatic Brain Injury & Olfactory Dysfunction

    00:22:25 Smell, Alertness, Smelling Salts, Tool: Peppermint

    00:24:32 Taste Modalities & Functions; Taste &
    Digestive System

    00:30:47 Sponsor: Our Place

    00:32:39 Pheromones, Coolidge Effect, Humans & Chemical
    Communication

    00:38:44 Recap & Key Takeaways

    Disclaimer & Disclosures

  • Former First Lady (Michelle Obama): This Is A Scam! People Were Running From Us Because We Were Black! I Was Bitter About The Racism I Received!

    中文
    Tiếng Việt
    AI transcript
    0:00:06 People in power who haven’t understood their why can lead us down some dark tunnels.
    0:00:09 We are in a really tough time right now.
    0:00:11 The one and only Michelle Obama.
    0:00:12 The former first lady.
    0:00:18 And her brother, Craig Robinson, are sharing their rare perspectives into a world very few ever gets to see.
    0:00:27 I grew up in a predominantly black neighborhood and we were taught foundational values so that we could function in our society.
    0:00:32 But growing up, I was just checking boxes and then I met Barack Obama.
    0:00:36 He showed up in my life as the opposite of a box checker.
    0:00:38 You rejected him at first, right?
    0:00:38 Yeah.
    0:00:41 I was even trying to introduce him to some of my friends.
    0:00:43 He said, well, why don’t we go out?
    0:00:44 And what did you think of him?
    0:00:48 Honestly, I was like, he may last two months.
    0:00:50 I remember my mom saying, well, at least he’s tall.
    0:00:55 But the next thing, you know, we were on our way to building our lives together.
    0:01:00 And my initial reaction was, don’t do this.
    0:01:01 There’d be death threats.
    0:01:03 How do you raise kids in the White House?
    0:01:05 How would we afford it?
    0:01:08 Did you ask for any promises if he were to win?
    0:01:14 I didn’t know what that journey was going to be and what I would need to negotiate for myself.
    0:01:18 And if I had known what I know now, I should have said.
    0:01:23 Michelle, I was watching the coverage of your decision to not go to Trump’s inauguration.
    0:01:24 What was the thinking behind that?
    0:01:27 The truth was, is that.
    0:01:34 I find it incredibly fascinating that when we look at the back end of Spotify and Apple
    0:01:39 and our audio channels, the majority of people that watch this podcast haven’t yet hit the
    0:01:41 follow button or the subscribe button, wherever you’re listening to this.
    0:01:43 I would like to make a deal with you.
    0:01:47 If you could do me a huge favor and hit that subscribe button, I will work tirelessly from
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    0:02:19 Michelle, Craig, what do I need to know about your earliest context to understand the adults?
    0:02:23 And I use that word intentionally because I know that’s what your parents were intent on
    0:02:26 raising, the adults that are in front of me today.
    0:02:33 It starts at 7436 South Euclid.
    0:02:35 You know, the hub of it all.
    0:02:40 That was the home that we grew up in on the south side of Chicago.
    0:02:43 And it was a teeny tiny house.
    0:02:46 We lived above our Aunt Robbie.
    0:02:51 It was a single family home, a bungalow on the south side of Chicago.
    0:02:57 And our Aunt Robbie was married to her husband, Terry.
    0:02:59 And they owned the home.
    0:03:07 And they had a little bitty, almost one-bedroom, two-bedroom apartment over the home.
    0:03:08 So it was a two-family home.
    0:03:12 We were surrounded by extended family.
    0:03:18 That community of people that you, probably because people didn’t have a lot of resources,
    0:03:19 people lived with each other.
    0:03:21 You know, you shared spaces.
    0:03:23 You lived next to one another.
    0:03:29 And we lived with our great-aunt because it helped our parents save some money and get
    0:03:30 us in a better neighborhood.
    0:03:32 Because my father was a city worker.
    0:03:35 He was a working-class guy, didn’t have a college education.
    0:03:41 And working for the city was a really stable job because it gave you benefits and some stability.
    0:03:46 And my mom wanted to stay home and raise kids.
    0:03:51 So in order to save that kind of money, we banded together and lived with our Aunt Robbie.
    0:03:59 And all of the adventures and the lessons learned, when I think about my foundational values,
    0:04:04 that house really, and all the experiences and conversations,
    0:04:09 the beginning of my kitchen table happened on 74th and Euclid.
    0:04:15 And I talk about it because you think it was a palace, but this was a little home.
    0:04:22 We shared a bedroom most of our lives because there just wasn’t room for us to each have our own room.
    0:04:25 And we shared the space, one bathroom.
    0:04:27 There was no dining room.
    0:04:28 There was just a kitchen.
    0:04:34 And the way it was set up, how it was supposed to be used, it was a one-bedroom apartment.
    0:04:39 And the living room was the room that we shared as a bedroom.
    0:04:42 And the one bedroom it had was where my mom and dad lived.
    0:04:47 And the whole thing could have been 700 square feet.
    0:04:50 You talked about foundational values.
    0:04:54 What were those foundational values that you learned in that location?
    0:04:58 And how did your parents teach you those foundational values?
    0:05:02 And I ask that with great curiosity because as I read through both of your books,
    0:05:10 there are moments in your career where, as adults in your late 20s, where those values show up so clearly over and over and over again.
    0:05:18 And as I was reading it, I was thinking, gosh, what did their parents do to orientate them in such a clear way?
    0:05:27 Where at key moments in both of your careers, you make decisions not to get a pay rise or not to go for the thing that is higher status and to do something else,
    0:05:32 either something that’s aligned with your passions and hobbies or something that’s in service of others.
    0:05:35 So what were those values?
    0:05:37 And how did your parents instill those in you?
    0:05:40 I think our parents modeled it.
    0:05:48 I mean, if I were to think of one word that would describe my father, he was just a decent man.
    0:05:52 Decent, honest, hardworking, and loyal, trustworthy.
    0:05:56 I mean, these were the kind of things that we talked about.
    0:05:59 We didn’t have material stuff.
    0:06:01 He couldn’t provide that.
    0:06:05 But he provided a set of lessons about what it meant to be a good friend.
    0:06:11 He was the elder in his family, the oldest of, what, five?
    0:06:14 And my mom was the middle child.
    0:06:25 And he took care of everyone, even though he had multiple sclerosis and walked with assistance.
    0:06:26 He had a cane when we were younger.
    0:06:30 I never knew my father to walk without the assistance of a cane.
    0:06:33 And MS was a progressive disease.
    0:06:37 So over the course of his life, he just got weaker and weaker and weaker.
    0:06:42 But he was the strongest person in our orbit with everyone.
    0:06:43 Never took a sick day.
    0:06:44 Never took a sick day.
    0:06:48 He was the father that fathered all the other kids in the neighborhood.
    0:06:55 You know, so when Craig was playing basketball, he was the person that was at most of the practices,
    0:06:57 if he could be, if his shift allowed.
    0:07:03 He was the dad in the neighborhood where a lot of kids didn’t have those kind of role models.
    0:07:13 And even though we didn’t have a lot, you know, there was never a time when my father wasn’t going to help somebody.
    0:07:21 So, you know, I guess those values where you take care of people, you know, money doesn’t really matter.
    0:07:23 That’s not the thing that makes you great.
    0:07:26 It’s how you show up in the world.
    0:07:27 It’s your word.
    0:07:30 It’s, you know, how you treat other people.
    0:07:38 To Misha’s point, he was the guy who was giving kids rides to practice and to games because their parents couldn’t go.
    0:07:42 And he would be sharing stories, sharing his values.
    0:07:49 It was just embedded in his being to pass on knowledge that he had.
    0:07:59 And with regard to my mom, you know, my mom, I think, is where, at least where I get my philanthropic gene from.
    0:08:06 Not with money, because we didn’t have any, but with our time and with our resources, whatever resources we had.
    0:08:10 What was behind all of this was unconditional love.
    0:08:16 It’s a tool in the toolbox that you sometimes don’t even realize is there if you’re privileged enough to.
    0:08:17 Right.
    0:08:27 Because it’s that tectonic plate that sits underneath you that you never can really see, but gives you a certain sense of, I guess, risk and go get it.
    0:08:33 Well, and knowing that, you know, it’s not just unconditional love, but our parents believed us.
    0:08:35 They valued our voices.
    0:08:39 I mean, they really liked to hear us talk.
    0:08:49 They encouraged us to think out loud and to problem solve and to come to us with their problems but not be the ones that were going to solve it.
    0:08:59 And this came in very handy when you’re a kid in public school, because, you know, in public school, south side of Chicago, teaching was kind of uneven.
    0:09:04 You know, one year you’d get a teacher that cared and invested in the kids.
    0:09:07 Another grade, you’d have a teacher that didn’t care.
    0:09:14 And I remember distinctly, I started second grade and I went to a classroom that was completely chaotic.
    0:09:17 The teacher clearly didn’t want to be there.
    0:09:19 And I knew this in second grade.
    0:09:21 And there was no order.
    0:09:22 We didn’t have homework.
    0:09:25 We weren’t doing regular lessons.
    0:09:27 And I knew that something was wrong.
    0:09:33 And I would come home at lunch and I’d complain about, nothing happened today at school, you know.
    0:09:40 And I don’t know what second grade is supposed to be, but I don’t feel like I’m getting what I need to get out of second grade.
    0:09:44 It took a month of coming home and complaining.
    0:09:47 And my mom was quietly listening, but she wasn’t just listening.
    0:09:49 She was plotting.
    0:10:00 And it was a month in, she went up to the school, watched herself, and saw that this teacher not only wasn’t teaching, but it appeared that she didn’t even like kids.
    0:10:04 So she went to the principal’s office and read them the riot act.
    0:10:10 I don’t know what she said or what she did, but three of us were pulled out of the class for testing.
    0:10:14 And I just remember, I just didn’t have to go into that class.
    0:10:17 And I spent a couple of weeks taking some specialized tests.
    0:10:19 We were just doing bubble tests.
    0:10:20 Didn’t know what it was.
    0:10:27 Got the results, and the results proved that I could skip second grade.
    0:10:30 And it was a lifesaver for me.
    0:10:34 But I’ll never forget, my mom finally did.
    0:10:38 I would hear a complaint of my dad, this teacher, you know, these teachers who don’t care about these kids.
    0:10:44 She had gotten us out, but she was worried about the kids who were stuck in that second grade class,
    0:10:53 who didn’t have parents who were their advocates, who, you know, were going to spend probably a wasted year in second grade missing whatever they were going to miss.
    0:11:03 But that was one of those instances where I knew that if a cry for help from me was heard by my mother and acted upon.
    0:11:06 She could have been one of those mothers who said, well, just, you know, life is life.
    0:11:07 Just get it together.
    0:11:12 But she knew there was something different and what I wanted and what I needed.
    0:11:14 And she, you know, she made it happen.
    0:11:18 Does that teach you to respond to others who cry for that help?
    0:11:19 It probably does.
    0:11:23 I mean, I still think about the kids who were left behind.
    0:11:34 I mean, there’s just something that really touches me about kids who are as bright as we are because we grew up with them.
    0:11:36 You know, my mother saw them.
    0:11:42 And the only difference between me and them was that they had a mother that cared.
    0:11:47 And a lot of their lives look totally different from ours because of that.
    0:11:56 And I find myself being that advocate for those kids, those, the kids who are underestimated and undersupported.
    0:12:01 And that turns out to be kids, most kids all over the world.
    0:12:15 So I do find that that moment for me was a defining in a pretty fundamental way about how I fight for kids in the way that I saw my mom fight for me.
    0:12:17 Race.
    0:12:28 One of the startling things with these two photos, mainly because I think it’s this way around, but this is, I believe, what, second grade or something?
    0:12:29 That was first grade.
    0:12:29 First grade.
    0:12:31 And then this is seventh or eighth grade?
    0:12:33 Seventh or eighth grade, yeah.
    0:12:41 There’s a lot less white people in the second photo, which means that, which assumes that white people started leaving your school.
    0:12:42 Oh, absolutely.
    0:12:45 They’re leaving the neighborhood, leaving the whole of South Shore.
    0:12:49 My question really is about what role did race play in your childhood?
    0:12:57 Because I think about my own childhood, and it’s quite a prominent persuasive force in who I became and what I thought about the world and really what I thought about myself.
    0:13:02 So race is an issue as young people in Chicago.
    0:13:03 What role did it play?
    0:13:08 I think there was a lot of race pride in our family.
    0:13:25 There was this feeling, this understanding that because of people’s prejudice, there would be a lot of white people that would underestimate you, that would mistreat you, that would assume things about you.
    0:13:38 Our family, our entire family on both sides, really smart, talented, gifted people to have a family that big, but all working class people, right?
    0:13:43 So we lived among sort of real, regular excellence, you know?
    0:13:52 I mean, people who were teachers and who were engineers, all of our cousins were people who were expected to do well in school.
    0:13:58 So we were taught, like, no one’s better, smarter than you.
    0:14:00 You know, you’re capable.
    0:14:06 My father was that voice for a lot of our cousins if they didn’t have that kind of energy in their lives.
    0:14:09 It was always like, you got this, and you know what you’re doing.
    0:14:12 So in our home, there was race pride.
    0:14:25 But when you, you know, live in a—when we moved into South Shore, into Robbie’s house, our Aunt Robbie’s house, most of my neighborhood friends were white kids.
    0:14:35 Rachel Dempsey and Susan Yacker and Sofinant Concepont, who was a Korean girl because we lived by a hospital when her mother was a nurse.
    0:14:43 So it was a very mixed—the stewards who were, you know, they were a black family but could pass for white.
    0:14:46 I mean, it was just sort of some of everyone in the neighborhood.
    0:14:54 Miss Mason, who was the little old white lady across the street, and our neighbors were the Mendozas, the Mexicans.
    0:14:58 You know, it was sort of everywhere, all around us.
    0:15:01 And everyone got along.
    0:15:02 Neighbors knew one another.
    0:15:04 We played with each other.
    0:15:16 I went to Rachel’s house and for lunch and, you know, but then one year, it was like the lights went off for the white people, and they were gone without a trace, you know?
    0:15:16 They called this white flight.
    0:15:19 This was white flight and action.
    0:15:20 Yeah, yeah.
    0:15:21 And so you—
    0:15:23 For anyone that doesn’t have context on white flight, what is that?
    0:15:37 It’s the sociological occurrence of what happens in communities when black people sort of start making their way up socioeconomically and can buy homes or rent homes in neighborhoods that are predominantly white.
    0:15:43 So instead of white people accepting it, they sell their homes en masse.
    0:15:53 There’s a sort of undercurrent of we better get out because these black families coming in are going to ruin the neighborhood and bring down property values.
    0:15:58 So you better sell now and go further south into the southern suburbs.
    0:16:03 And so when you’re young, you kind of know something is going on.
    0:16:07 You know, it’s not like we were sitting around the kitchen table talking about white flight.
    0:16:16 But what you do know and you take in as a child is, like, these people are running from us, you know?
    0:16:29 It’s like my dad, who is this, you know, amazingly kind and generous person who would have been good for a lot of these people’s kids,
    0:16:37 these white folks’ kids, to get to know and be around us, who turned out to be who we were, and we were always going to be that.
    0:16:39 You’re running for up from us.
    0:16:48 Well, our feeling was like, well, how stupid is racism and how stupid are you for not really looking and getting to know?
    0:16:57 So race to me and my household was just a dumb manifestation of ignorant people.
    0:17:01 But we were taught to keep moving through it.
    0:17:02 How do you stop it getting to you?
    0:17:06 One of the remarkable things I noticed, even when we spent some time together yesterday,
    0:17:10 is there is no apparent bitterness.
    0:17:14 And there’s, one would say that there’s reason to be.
    0:17:19 Because when you’re so powerful and so prominent and so well known, you’re exposed to everything.
    0:17:24 And going through that experience in those early years and then going through everything that happened thereafter,
    0:17:26 there doesn’t appear to be any bitterness.
    0:17:29 There doesn’t appear to be any chip on the shoulder, any anger.
    0:17:30 Yeah.
    0:17:31 Sometimes there is.
    0:17:32 Yeah.
    0:17:33 You just don’t show it.
    0:17:34 You just don’t show it.
    0:17:47 But I will say, at least from my standpoint, mom and dad, but mom especially, she taught us empathy.
    0:17:50 Almost to a fault, right?
    0:17:56 So she always said, you remember how she always said, put yourself in the other person’s shoes.
    0:18:01 And she would always say, you never know what’s going on in someone else’s home.
    0:18:10 And so I always approached negativity toward me with empathy.
    0:18:11 That was the first thing.
    0:18:14 It’s like, oh, what happened to you?
    0:18:18 What happened to you that made you so mean and evil?
    0:18:30 The other thing that our parents were really big on was, do not care what anybody else who’s not sitting at this table thinks.
    0:18:40 If we ever said somebody said something and it affected the way we behaved, that’s when you saw anger from my parents.
    0:18:41 That’s when you get into trouble.
    0:18:43 You got in trouble with my parents.
    0:18:46 I mean, it was crack back right away.
    0:18:47 What would they say back?
    0:19:00 They would be like, so you’re telling me that what whoever this is over here said is more important to you than what you hear around this table, then you can go live with so-and-so.
    0:19:08 I mean, you know, admonitions in our house were always conversations.
    0:19:09 It was discussions.
    0:19:12 And you knew when your parents were disappointed.
    0:19:14 You knew when you had struck a nerve.
    0:19:20 And it was never about, you know, just making a mistake or, you know.
    0:19:26 It was about thinking in a way that felt oppressive, internally oppressive.
    0:19:29 They didn’t like that kind of thinking in us.
    0:19:31 They wanted us to feel our own power.
    0:19:43 They never wanted us to surrender the way we thought about ourselves to the rest of the world because they probably understood that they couldn’t trust the way the rest of the world would treat us, right?
    0:19:53 They knew that we couldn’t be so locked into what the world would say because the world was grounded in racism.
    0:20:15 And that, you know, a little black boy, more so, even my brother, they were probably more concerned with him because he was going to encounter it every day as he got taller and bigger and smarter because all of the men in our lives had experienced someone trying to knock them down a peg or two.
    0:20:22 I think our parents understood that that was waiting for both of us, and it was waiting for my brother in particular.
    0:20:40 So they wanted to arm him with enough self-esteem to fill him up at the table where he was safe, to give him the tools to just embed in him a level of empathy so that he wouldn’t become angry because anger for a young black boy was dangerous, you know.
    0:20:54 So there was a real clever way of allowing us to have these conversations, but filling us up with empathy so that we could function in a racist society.
    0:20:56 Being underestimated.
    0:21:00 It’s a word that I saw throughout your book, and it’s a word you mentioned a second ago.
    0:21:09 You knew you were going into an underestimated world, if I can call it that, a world that was going to underestimate you because of your race and things like that.
    0:21:13 But it’s so clear to me that you had your shoulders back regardless.
    0:21:15 And I spoke to Valerie.
    0:21:17 Do you know Valerie?
    0:21:18 Of course you know Valerie.
    0:21:20 I’ve worked with Valerie for many decades.
    0:21:23 She was sort of an early mental figure in your life, Michelle.
    0:21:24 Yes, she was.
    0:21:26 And she actually wrote me a letter about you.
    0:21:36 She describes that she’s never met someone in her life that was so clear on what they wanted to achieve in the world in terms of the social good and the impact they wanted to have,
    0:21:39 but was so unbelievably confident in high conviction.
    0:21:46 And when I think about when you went to Harvard and studied law, there was, what, 30% of the people attending were women,
    0:21:49 and then a tinier percentage were black women.
    0:21:54 And you were aware, again, of being underestimated, but again, shoulders back, it seemed.
    0:21:56 Where does that come from in you?
    0:22:09 Living through the incorrectness of that underestimation, right?
    0:22:20 First of all, I grew up, you know, fortunately in a predominantly black neighborhood after white flight happened where everyone assumed I was smart, right?
    0:22:24 I grew up as the salutatorian in my grammar school.
    0:22:26 I went to a top high school.
    0:22:38 You know, so I had the fortune of growing up in a validating black environment, you know, which is, we talk about that a lot with black students,
    0:22:49 whether they should be going to HBCUs and what happens when you get pulled out into a mixed environment where you are so underestimated so early.
    0:22:53 You know, you start, we talked about the messages that you start telling yourself.
    0:23:13 I didn’t have that because when we were young, you know, my mentors, my teachers, the coaches, my dance teachers, they were all people who, if I made a mistake or if they doubted me, it was because, not because of my race, it was because I disappointed somebody in some other way, right?
    0:23:28 So by the time I hit Princeton, thankfully, I had enough internal data that I could do a lot of things, that I was better, smarter, sharper than they would give me credit for.
    0:23:43 And then it was confirmed when I walked onto Princeton’s campus as an undergrad, feeling a little intimidated because it was an Ivy League school and I wasn’t a great test taker, although I was an outstanding student.
    0:23:46 And I wasn’t a standardized, good standardized test taker.
    0:23:50 All those numbers said that I shouldn’t do well at Princeton.
    0:24:05 And so I came in as an affirmative action kid, sort of feeling like maybe I don’t belong in these ivory towers and maybe these kids coming from these other schools are really so much smarter and better than I am.
    0:24:10 And then I sat on that campus and I looked around and I was like, oh, my God.
    0:24:14 Well, there’s all kinds of affirmative action that I never talk about.
    0:24:16 You know, there’s wealth and legacy.
    0:24:20 There’s athletic affirmative action.
    0:24:31 There were a lot of kids that were on that campus and, as I learned, continue to gain access to these seats of power that have nothing to do with their raw academic ability.
    0:24:39 There are a lot of bright kids who go to these schools, but there are a lot of bright kids whose parents get them into these schools.
    0:24:48 And when I got on campus and I came out of my first semester with straight A’s, I was like, well, what’s the—what are you talking about?
    0:24:51 What are you—who are you?
    0:24:58 Why are you trying to mess with my head in this way when you guys are—you’re not even working as hard as me?
    0:25:04 But that was—it was infuriating, but it was freeing because I was like, I get it now.
    0:25:06 This—you’re just trying to get into my head.
    0:25:07 You’re scared of me.
    0:25:11 You know, you don’t want me competing with you.
    0:25:17 And I think it was at that period, going to one of the top schools, that I was like, I’m done.
    0:25:21 I am done worrying about whether I belong here.
    0:25:23 You know, this is a scam.
    0:25:32 So that—I think that really—I came out of Princeton just feeling like, rawr, you know, let me at them.
    0:25:35 You know, you know, forget all this stuff.
    0:25:38 And now I’m trying to tell other kids that.
    0:25:46 It’s like I’m coming down from the mountaintop with the tablet of truth and going, do not let these people scam you.
    0:25:48 This is all a racket.
    0:25:49 What’s the scam?
    0:25:57 That you don’t belong, that they’re smarter, that they work harder, that they know more, that they deserve this more than you do.
    0:25:59 That’s not—it’s just not true.
    0:26:06 And so from then on, I was like, you prove that I don’t belong here, you know.
    0:26:11 I’m going to sit at these tables, and I am going to run it from now on.
    0:26:13 Why am I listening to you?
    0:26:15 Why don’t you listen to me?
    0:26:19 I think that experience for me was freeing in an odd kind of way.
    0:26:22 And a lot of kids don’t get access.
    0:26:27 They’re just blocked out, and it’s sort of like they’re told, don’t look behind the curtain because you don’t belong.
    0:26:29 And they want us to think that way.
    0:26:32 I stopped thinking that way a long time ago.
    0:26:40 The journey you’ve both been on is really, really remarkable for so many reasons, but it’s also remarkable for the pivots along the way.
    0:26:49 And I was reading about a bit of an identity crisis that you had when you were 27, 28 years old, Michelle, when you were a lawyer.
    0:26:50 I was a lawyer, yeah.
    0:26:51 At Sidley in Austin.
    0:26:52 Yes.
    0:26:59 Beautiful, high-paid corporate attorney that allowed me to buy a nice Saab.
    0:27:00 Saab, drive an attorney.
    0:27:01 Drive an attorney.
    0:27:08 First real job I had had right out of Harvard because that’s what you did.
    0:27:16 You know, after you went to go to law school, top school, you’re recruited by the top firms in the country, and they offer you exorbitant salaries.
    0:27:26 So at that age, as I started as a first-year associate, I was making more than my parents made combined, which seemed like something you didn’t turn down.
    0:27:31 You know, if you have the opportunity to do that, it’s like, well, yeah, sure, I’m going to work for a firm.
    0:27:34 But that’s what I was really doing all my life.
    0:27:35 I was box-checking.
    0:27:40 I was just, because I was a good student and I could do certain things, that’s what I did.
    0:27:43 You know, I sort of understood that there was a formula.
    0:27:44 Be a good student.
    0:27:45 Show up.
    0:27:46 Do the work.
    0:27:46 Check.
    0:27:47 Got that.
    0:27:48 Get good grades.
    0:27:50 Go to a competitive high school.
    0:27:51 Went to a magnet high school.
    0:27:53 Was this class treasurer.
    0:27:54 Top of the class.
    0:27:54 Check.
    0:27:55 Got it.
    0:27:56 Because I can do this.
    0:27:58 I’m just marching through life.
    0:27:59 Check, check, check.
    0:28:01 Apply to top college.
    0:28:03 Got into Princeton.
    0:28:03 Right.
    0:28:04 I’m in.
    0:28:06 Graduated at the top of the class.
    0:28:07 Go to law school.
    0:28:07 Why?
    0:28:08 I don’t know.
    0:28:12 There wasn’t really a thought to why I went to law school.
    0:28:16 It was just, I don’t know what I’m going to do after graduate school.
    0:28:20 Not going to be a doctor because I don’t like science or math.
    0:28:21 I like to talk.
    0:28:22 I like to argue.
    0:28:26 And so, why not go to law school?
    0:28:27 So, I applied to Harvard.
    0:28:28 Get in.
    0:28:30 You go to Harvard.
    0:28:33 You know, that was just, that was my thought process.
    0:28:35 There wasn’t a, there wasn’t purpose.
    0:28:37 There wasn’t, what do I care about?
    0:28:40 I didn’t know what being a corporate lawyer meant.
    0:28:44 I was just checking boxes until I became a lawyer.
    0:28:52 And a lot of stuff happened in that year besides me just joining Sidley and Austin in that period
    0:28:54 of time, we lost our father.
    0:28:57 He died very suddenly.
    0:29:08 One of my best friends from college, Suzanne, died of lymphoma.
    0:29:09 And it was sudden.
    0:29:13 She was diagnosed in December and she died in May.
    0:29:19 Really, the first time in my life where people that weren’t expected to die, died.
    0:29:22 You know, we had lost grandparents and great-grandparents.
    0:29:29 And I was really having kind of an existential crisis sitting on the 47th floor of my, in my
    0:29:35 beautiful office with a secretary and a sob in the garage thinking, why me?
    0:29:39 Why am I here rather than Suzanne?
    0:29:44 Because she was, that friend was also the dreamer, the person who wasn’t box checking.
    0:29:47 She went to Princeton, but she traveled the world.
    0:29:50 She didn’t go to business school right away.
    0:29:52 And I always thought, you got to get your life together.
    0:29:53 You got to be on a path.
    0:29:59 And I thought, thank God she didn’t do that because she didn’t know she was going to die.
    0:30:06 But instead of sitting in some office building, she was living life and trying on new things.
    0:30:09 And I realized I hadn’t done that for myself.
    0:30:13 All I was doing was following a game plan.
    0:30:16 I wasn’t trying to figure out my purpose.
    0:30:19 And at the same time, I met Barack Obama.
    0:30:26 He showed up in my life as the opposite of a box checker, but somebody I describe in my
    0:30:28 book as an ultimate swerver.
    0:30:32 He did nothing by the book, but he was brilliant and interesting.
    0:30:35 You know, he didn’t go to law school right away.
    0:30:38 He worked as a community organizer.
    0:30:40 He lived in different parts of the world.
    0:30:48 He was really trying to unpack life in a way that people in my generation weren’t trying
    0:30:48 to do.
    0:30:53 You were just, you know, I was with the black bourgeois, right?
    0:30:58 And people were buying their homes and getting their cars together and trying to make partner
    0:30:59 at a firm.
    0:31:01 There was a very finite path.
    0:31:04 And I hadn’t explored anything else but that.
    0:31:10 And I thought, I have to do something more before I settle on this.
    0:31:13 And I think Barack helped give me the courage.
    0:31:21 You know, he was the person in my ear that said, why would you want to just stop here and settle
    0:31:24 on this career when there’s so much out there that you haven’t tried, right?
    0:31:26 You can do this.
    0:31:30 And I was like, but I’m loaded down with debt.
    0:31:34 And right around that time, we knew we were going to be together.
    0:31:36 We knew we were going to be engaged.
    0:31:39 And he was like, we’ll figure that out.
    0:31:43 He was like, don’t settle on becoming a partner at a law firm because of money.
    0:31:47 You know, it’s like, you need to see the world in a different way.
    0:31:50 And we’ll figure this out together.
    0:31:53 And so I started swerving.
    0:31:58 I started trying other things in life and never looked back.
    0:32:05 Craig, when was the first time you heard that your little sister had met a guy called Mr.
    0:32:05 Obama?
    0:32:09 Well, she called me up and said, hey, I met a guy.
    0:32:10 I want to bring him by.
    0:32:15 And my mom, my dad, and I were sitting on our front porch.
    0:32:20 And she pulls up in her Nysop 900 that you’ve heard a lot about.
    0:32:22 And he gets out of the car.
    0:32:23 And that was the first time we met him.
    0:32:25 And what did you think of him, honestly?
    0:32:40 Honestly, I was like, you know, he may last two months because he’d do something and be like, oh, that’s a deal breaker.
    0:32:41 And he’d be on his way.
    0:32:45 And my mom, I remember my mom saying, well, at least he’s tall.
    0:32:50 We were just meeting him like we would meet somebody she’d bring by.
    0:32:51 But I never brought.
    0:32:52 I didn’t bring a lot of boyfriends.
    0:32:53 She didn’t bring a lot of guys by.
    0:32:58 So that’s why we thought it wouldn’t last that long, because she didn’t bring too many guys by.
    0:33:00 Yeah, but why would you think it wouldn’t last?
    0:33:02 The people that didn’t last, you didn’t meet.
    0:33:04 But we heard about them.
    0:33:06 Yeah, but you never met them.
    0:33:10 Yeah, well, I have known my sister a long time.
    0:33:14 That’s one of those just where Michelle’s so hard on men, you know.
    0:33:15 So it’s like, yeah.
    0:33:17 I didn’t say she was hard.
    0:33:18 I brought them home.
    0:33:24 And I think there was one other boyfriend that you met, even though I had plenty of boyfriends.
    0:33:24 I just, you know.
    0:33:26 I had met more than two guys.
    0:33:28 Well, that’s because we went to school together.
    0:33:29 Yeah.
    0:33:29 Right?
    0:33:30 Right.
    0:33:31 Those guys didn’t last.
    0:33:32 But they didn’t come home.
    0:33:33 Well, okay.
    0:33:34 Well, I met them.
    0:33:35 Yeah.
    0:33:35 I met them.
    0:33:37 But they didn’t meet mom and dad.
    0:33:38 No, they didn’t meet mom and dad.
    0:33:39 But that’s because we weren’t in Chicago.
    0:33:41 Oh, anyway.
    0:33:43 Well, that matters is really how it turned out, right?
    0:33:45 So this is the sibling.
    0:33:47 It’s like, oh, you know.
    0:33:49 You rejected him at first, right?
    0:33:50 Yeah, yeah.
    0:33:55 Because he, Barack was, I was assigned to be his advisor.
    0:33:57 And that didn’t mean I was his boss.
    0:34:00 But every, I was a first year associate.
    0:34:06 So they tried to pair first years sort of with new summer associates just to help get them acclimated
    0:34:09 and to kind of give them advice to sort of mentor them for the summer.
    0:34:12 So I was his mentor, right?
    0:34:13 So he comes in.
    0:34:14 He’s late.
    0:34:17 So I’m thinking, okay, this guy’s trifling.
    0:34:20 Because we didn’t, in the Robinson family, we didn’t do late.
    0:34:23 But he was raining and he didn’t have an umbrella.
    0:34:24 And so he was a little wet.
    0:34:27 So I was a little annoyed.
    0:34:32 But he stood up and he was tall and he was more handsome than his picture.
    0:34:34 So I sort of thought, oh, okay.
    0:34:35 And not what I expected.
    0:34:42 So I took him around the office, got him settled into his office,
    0:34:45 took him out to lunch for that first day.
    0:34:47 And we talked for like hours.
    0:34:51 And I knew that we were going to be friends.
    0:34:52 He was smart.
    0:34:53 He was funny.
    0:34:54 Had a good sense of humor.
    0:34:56 Didn’t take himself too seriously.
    0:34:59 So we clicked right off the bat.
    0:35:04 And over the course of the summer, we actually became really good friends.
    0:35:09 I was even trying to introduce him to some of my friends, my girlfriends, saying, there’s
    0:35:11 this really cute guy who’s my advisor.
    0:35:20 Because in my mind, there wasn’t any way that the few black associates there who both went to
    0:35:21 Harvard were going to date.
    0:35:24 In my mind, I was like, that’s going to be tacky.
    0:35:25 That’s expected.
    0:35:25 Right?
    0:35:31 And I was just sort of into doing what wasn’t, not doing the expected.
    0:35:31 Right?
    0:35:33 So my mind went somewhere else.
    0:35:38 I was like, ah, meet all these wonderful, beautiful women that I know.
    0:35:44 And after a couple of outings, he said, well, why don’t we go out?
    0:35:48 And I was like, no way are we going to go out.
    0:35:50 That’s just not going to happen.
    0:35:51 We are friends.
    0:35:52 And he was sort of like, huh, well, why?
    0:35:53 And he made the case.
    0:35:56 I said, well, you know, I don’t think it looks right.
    0:35:59 And he said, who cares about how it looks?
    0:36:03 And so he made his Barack Obama case over a couple of weeks.
    0:36:07 And finally, I was like, OK, we’ll go out on one date.
    0:36:12 And so he planned, after that, it was over.
    0:36:17 It was a full day date where he pulled out all the stops.
    0:36:22 I’m sure I picked him up because I had the nice car.
    0:36:29 And we went to the Art Institute, where he showed me his suave, you know, view of art.
    0:36:31 And we had lunch at the museum.
    0:36:36 And then we walked from the Art Institute down Michigan Avenue north.
    0:36:40 So we walked hand in hand, talked slowly.
    0:36:47 And, you know, then we went and had dinner on top of Lake Point Tower, which was a beautiful view of the city.
    0:36:53 And then we, I think, ended the evening watching, going to Spike Lee’s, do the right thing.
    0:37:01 So, I mean, he had planned, you know, culture, you know, art, you know, a lovely stroll.
    0:37:08 And slowly I was like, OK, maybe I, you know, I spoke too soon.
    0:37:11 You know, maybe there is something more here.
    0:37:18 But, yes, that’s a long way of saying I did say no for a good month or two.
    0:37:22 But by the end of the summer, we were, I think, it was that summer.
    0:37:26 By the end of the summer, I was introducing him to my family.
    0:37:30 You both have that through line through your story of ticking the boxes.
    0:37:39 And then eventually, it’s kind of what we were talking about yesterday on your show, where you have sometimes your preconception has to fail you.
    0:37:40 Yeah, that’s right.
    0:37:44 You have to feel it for you to understand that maybe a pivot is needed in your life.
    0:37:46 And it was the same when I was talking about my early journey.
    0:37:49 Valerie, this very interesting character in your life.
    0:37:52 This is the letter, I found it, that Valerie wrote in to me.
    0:37:59 And she’s talking about the pivot you made from being a lawyer to leaving that law firm and going in pursuit of something else.
    0:38:03 What was the something else you were pursuing before I read what Valerie said to me?
    0:38:08 I had no idea because I didn’t know anything.
    0:38:16 But I started with what I, I had to spend some time thinking, journaling about what did I care about.
    0:38:17 What was the journal question?
    0:38:21 What brought me joy, you know, of all the things that I was doing in my life?
    0:38:29 What was the thing when I had it on my calendar that I would jump out of bed for, that would change my, the way I felt about the day?
    0:38:32 And it always had to, it went back to mentoring.
    0:38:44 Because while I was doing all this stuff in law, in my education, I was always finding ways to help younger kids understand how to get here.
    0:38:48 So it was the mentoring piece that Craig mentioned.
    0:38:52 You know, we never talked about that when we think about our parents.
    0:38:57 That brought me absolute joy, you know.
    0:39:02 So I started really trying to listen to that self-interested part of me, you know.
    0:39:04 It’s like, what made me happy?
    0:39:06 I never asked myself that.
    0:39:08 I always did what I thought I was supposed to do.
    0:39:17 And making money was one of the things that you were supposed to do if you were anyone who had an opportunity to get an Ivy League education.
    0:39:19 That was really all they talked about.
    0:39:20 That’s all they showed you.
    0:39:24 You know, there wasn’t a course or a major in helping people.
    0:39:29 You know, there wasn’t a course on working with young kids.
    0:39:33 You know, there’s no major for that, especially in the Ivy Leagues.
    0:39:36 So I know, I knew nothing about the nonprofit world.
    0:39:37 I knew nothing about NGOs.
    0:39:41 Well, Valerie said, she said the opposite.
    0:39:43 I’m joking, I’m joking, I’m joking.
    0:39:49 The day I met Michelle Obama changed my life forever.
    0:39:54 I’ll never forget the moment she strolled into my office for an interview, dressed in all black, hair elegantly pulled back.
    0:39:57 I was struck by the confidence that she carried herself with.
    0:40:00 She looked me right in the eye when she shook my hand.
    0:40:05 She was so poised and self-assured that it was hard to believe that she was only 27 years old.
    0:40:12 Michelle told me about her life, how she grew up in the South Side, how much love and support her parents poured into her and her brother, Craig.
    0:40:19 I asked her why she was considering public service rather than a much more lucrative path as a partner in a law firm.
    0:40:23 And she said that she had recently lost her dad and her best friend within a year.
    0:40:30 And their deaths were a painful reminder of the finiteness of life and the importance of making it purposeful.
    0:40:38 And how she knew that her abilities could lead her to make a difference in the lives of others, to serve and to give back to the city that she’d grown up.
    0:40:45 I was so in awe of her clarity of purpose, determination and vulnerability that I offered her a job on the spot.
    0:40:48 That was close, right?
    0:40:50 Yeah, it was the same.
    0:40:52 It was like, ooh, what did Valerie say?
    0:40:58 And at that time in your life, you know, those early 30s, what’s going on with Mr. Obama?
    0:41:07 Oh, by then he was, he had written his book because he was the president of the Harvard Law Review.
    0:41:13 The president of the Harvard Law Review is the top student at the top law school in the world.
    0:41:20 So, and he was the first black student to be elected president of the Harvard Law Review.
    0:41:23 And that garnered a lot of attention for him.
    0:41:24 We were dating at the time.
    0:41:33 And so he got a book contract to write a story, Dreams from My Father, which I thought was, who writes a book at your age, right?
    0:41:36 You know, but he was like, yeah, I might as well tell him a story.
    0:41:38 And, you know, and it was money, right?
    0:41:41 He got an advance and we were engaged.
    0:41:46 So he was working on that project, but he was still trying to figure out what he was going to do.
    0:41:52 And when you’re the president of the Harvard Law Review, basically the world of law is open to you.
    0:42:01 The normal path is that you clerk for an appellate judge for a year or two, and then you go on to clerk for the Supreme Court.
    0:42:12 Then, you know, you go on to do appellate work, you, you know, you have offers from every law firm, you are in demand, or you can do policy or whatever.
    0:42:13 That was the normal path.
    0:42:15 I was like, so are you going to clerk?
    0:42:16 He was like, why would I clerk?
    0:42:19 So he didn’t work at any of the big firms.
    0:42:23 He went to a very small firm that was doing public interest work.
    0:42:25 So he wasn’t making a lot of money.
    0:42:27 He was doing what I was doing.
    0:42:32 And he was going the opposite direction of all the things that were supposed to make us money.
    0:42:35 But he was like, money isn’t why I’m doing this.
    0:42:40 I’m trying to figure out how I can best use my skills to impact the most people.
    0:42:44 So he was doing 50 million jobs.
    0:42:50 And we were cobbling together our payments for our student loans at the time, which were more than our mortgage.
    0:42:52 We had bought a condominium.
    0:42:56 We were on our way to building our lives together, but we were in deep debt.
    0:43:05 So while we were both pursuing our deep love of being in the community, our incomes were going in the opposite direction of where they were supposed to go.
    0:43:07 But we were in this together.
    0:43:11 You know, politics hadn’t really come into the fold yet.
    0:43:13 It wasn’t a part of the conversation.
    0:43:23 But we were both kind of on these parallel paths, kind of figuring out how do we take all these skills and all this energy and help people.
    0:43:25 I was working in the city.
    0:43:29 He was working everywhere else and writing a book.
    0:43:34 And we were just kind of, you know, we were sort of plotting ahead.
    0:43:39 Business takes me all over the world and I travel about 50 weeks a year.
    0:43:45 And up until recently, one of the challenges I continue to face was staying connected as soon as I landed somewhere new.
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    0:44:43 I guess I’m seeking advice from both of you on love and romance and relationships because in your, you know, I’m in my early 30s now.
    0:44:49 And when I looked at both of your stories of love in your 30s, it’s not a straight line.
    0:44:50 Oh, no.
    0:44:51 Oh, no.
    0:44:53 It’s not a straight line to say the least.
    0:44:57 Michelle, you talk about going to marriage counseling with Brock.
    0:45:08 What does someone like me at 32 years old who is in a relationship, who is aggressively pursuing a career because I feel like I’ve got to build and build and build and set my family up for the future.
    0:45:16 What advice would you both give me about navigating love through that part of your career where it’s go, go, go, go, go?
    0:45:26 For somebody with your personality in particular, my advice would be that, you know,
    0:45:44 I could see you thinking, you know, if I’ve got my stuff together and I’ve got my path going over here and you’ve got your path going on over there, you know, as long as we’re both trudging along, you know, and pushing, we’re going to be good.
    0:45:55 And generally that can work because you can be two independent beings out there with, you know, basically slaying your own dragons, right?
    0:46:02 Making the choices about which dragons you slay and how, you know, how much armor you want to use, you know.
    0:46:15 You’re independent people and that feels good right now until your first and most important joint project happened, which you told me you want, you have kids, right?
    0:46:29 That’s oftentimes when the rub happens because when you, when you bring life into the world, you know, that’s the, that’s the project where you can’t do that independently.
    0:46:55 You can’t, you can’t, you can’t be on one path and your partner on another because raising those kids and making them as whole as, as you’d want them to be has so little to do with the dragon you’re slaying now than it does with how you partner and engage and, and, and make choices together on this, these little creatures that you’re going to love more than anything in the world.
    0:47:00 And you’re not going to want to get that project wrong, but you’ve got to work with your partner.
    0:47:01 You’ve got to communicate.
    0:47:03 And that’s when it gets really hard.
    0:47:05 Is that when it got hard for you?
    0:47:05 Yeah.
    0:47:06 Yeah.
    0:47:16 Because, you know, when you’re independent operators in the world, it, you know, he’s off, he’s traveling, I’m traveling, you know, maybe I don’t see him during the week.
    0:47:19 And then on Saturday, whoa, it’s great.
    0:47:19 I love you.
    0:47:20 I missed you.
    0:47:21 This was so cool.
    0:47:22 Tell me about your life.
    0:47:23 And, oh, this is, and it’s sexy.
    0:47:25 And it’s all of this.
    0:47:25 Right.
    0:47:30 And it feels, and you’re, you’re moving and, you know, and you also are okay having a break.
    0:47:33 It’s like, let me miss you for a little bit.
    0:47:35 So I don’t care that you’re traveling or that you’re everywhere.
    0:48:05 But the minute there’s a little baby that is waking someone up and if there’s one person that’s carrying the burden of that, you know, if one person’s dream stops because they’re taking on the lion’s share of things and you’re still going to the gym and you’re still slaying your dragons at the same rate and you haven’t looked over at your partner who maybe is now stuck at home because she’s breastfeeding or she made a set of choices to make this little creature work.
    0:48:14 And you guys haven’t had a conversation about that and what that balance looks like because you’re just slaying your dragon at the same rate.
    0:48:17 Oh, there’s going to be, oh, there’s going to be problems.
    0:48:20 You know, there’s going to be resentment.
    0:48:22 There’s going to be fatigue.
    0:48:26 There’s going to be measuring and counting and all the things.
    0:48:48 So I think it’s just important to communicate now to start doing the work of making sure that you guys are defining your one life together, that you’re deciding together now what dragons are going to be slaying and who gets to do what when, you know.
    0:48:52 And what does that feel like, you know, are you going to be working all the time?
    0:48:54 Are you going to be traveling all the time on the road?
    0:48:56 Is she coming with you?
    0:48:58 How does she feel about that?
    0:48:59 Did you have that conversation?
    0:49:00 No, no, we did not.
    0:49:01 You did not have that conversation?
    0:49:12 No, because I didn’t know that that was the thing that you had to worry about because when you’re in the midst of it, when you’re in the midst of pursuing your own independent journeys, it’s beautiful, right?
    0:49:13 It is.
    0:49:15 It’s like I’m independent.
    0:49:16 He’s independent.
    0:49:17 We get along.
    0:49:22 And then all of a sudden, someone’s legs are cut up from under them, you know.
    0:49:30 You know, someone is making a different set of sacrifices that wasn’t negotiated, that weren’t negotiated.
    0:49:31 Because of children.
    0:49:33 Because of children.
    0:49:34 Because of life.
    0:49:36 You had some pregnancy struggles.
    0:49:37 Yes.
    0:49:41 And I’ve spoken to many women on this show who have been through similar pregnancy struggles.
    0:49:49 And it’s something that I’ve, it’s actually a big conversation in my life at the moment, but also just some of my friends in my life around trying to get pregnant.
    0:49:53 And the IVF journey, which you went on.
    0:49:57 What do women who are struggling need to understand?
    0:50:07 And how did you feel when you were contemplating the IVF journey and when you started to have struggles conceiving without IVF?
    0:50:13 It’s the thing, you know, because we don’t talk about our bodies and women’s health.
    0:50:19 And there’s just not a lot of conversation about marriage or pregnancy or any of this.
    0:50:21 Our parents don’t talk about it.
    0:50:23 Their parents before them don’t talk about it.
    0:50:23 Right?
    0:50:27 So you imagine your life as you’re checking boxes.
    0:50:28 I’m waiting.
    0:50:30 I’ve delayed having kids.
    0:50:32 I found the love of my life.
    0:50:33 And now I’m going to get pregnant.
    0:50:38 And no one tells you that there is really a biological clock.
    0:50:40 Like, that’s not false.
    0:50:48 You know, we have partner in podcasts, Dr. Sharon Malone, who wrote a book, Grown Woman Talk, where she’s talking.
    0:50:53 She’s sort of ripping the curtain off of women’s health questions.
    0:51:00 And in a conversation with her, she reminded us that women, we are born with a finite set of eggs.
    0:51:02 And we don’t get any more.
    0:51:05 And every month we’re losing them.
    0:51:14 And so there is a period of time, usually, and it’s different for everyone, usually in your 30s, where you go from fertile to not.
    0:51:17 And it’s like falling off of a cliff.
    0:51:21 And I’m like, why didn’t anybody tell me this?
    0:51:21 I know.
    0:51:26 Why weren’t people talking about this?
    0:51:35 So by the time we started really trying, which worked perfectly for our careers and maturing and having everything set, right?
    0:51:37 Because that’s what we’re trying to get everything set.
    0:51:40 Unlike our parents who, you know, had us.
    0:51:41 We lived in a little bitty apartment.
    0:51:43 You know, one income.
    0:51:46 Our generation, we’re worrying about, I want everything set.
    0:51:53 I guarantee you, you have things way more set than any of our parents had before they started having kids.
    0:51:57 But we’re waiting for everything to be perfect, no friction.
    0:51:59 We don’t want any friction, right?
    0:52:04 And while we’re waiting for our lives to be perfect, that biological clock is ticking.
    0:52:07 So you start trying, and it’s not working.
    0:52:13 That’s when you go to the doctor, and they tell you, oh, you’re running out of eggs.
    0:52:14 This is normal.
    0:52:16 I mean, you’re going to have trouble getting pregnant.
    0:52:25 And so try a little bit, and then now it’s time for IVF, if you can afford it, which it wasn’t covered by insurance at the time.
    0:52:29 So, you know, it’s just a shock to the system.
    0:52:38 And as people who like learning and like knowledge, you really sort of feel gypped, you know, that why is this such a secret?
    0:52:43 Which is why I talk about it openly, and I talk about miscarriages.
    0:52:49 Because the other thing I learned is, like, most pregnancies, a good percentage of them end in miscarriage.
    0:52:53 That people have been having miscarriages for years, but not talking about it.
    0:53:08 So when it happens to you, a box checker, somebody that thought life was going to be so, and you did all the right things, to have things not work out and to know that it was going to be that way and nobody told you so that you could be prepared for it, it just, it was a blow.
    0:53:17 And then as a woman, you’re walking around owning the blow as if it’s your fault, you know, and so you’re carrying around that burden.
    0:53:35 And that can become the first pressure point in a marriage, because emotionally, you’ve got a woman that is carrying all of this, feeling like a failure, feeling not having anyone to talk about, having her hormones go up and down, literally, right?
    0:53:45 Probably dealing with depression and maybe some postpartum, still working, still slaying dragons, still on the path, but she’s carrying it all on her own.
    0:53:56 And then if you do IVF, the bulk of the work, the shots, we are the petri dish in the IVF process.
    0:54:01 You show up, you come in a cup, and ooh, yay, good for you, right?
    0:54:08 And you’re a little mad about that, too, because women have to get shots every week, and you have to go back and forth.
    0:54:20 In between having your job, your high-powered job, and keeping it all together, you’re at the doctor’s office every month trying to count your eggs and hoping that you’re producing eggs, and then you have to go through the procedure.
    0:54:32 And then you have to be pregnant for nine months as your partner is going to the gym and keeping his figure and, you know, all of that, you know?
    0:54:44 So it’s a long way of saying there are just many natural reasons why marriage, infertility, trying to have kids makes things difficult.
    0:54:49 It’s like I try to tell couples, of course it’s hard.
    0:54:52 Just listen to what I said, right?
    0:54:57 Like, if you’re having some issues in your marriage, it’s not you.
    0:55:00 It’s the process of marriage.
    0:55:01 It’s just all hard.
    0:55:04 Because guess what happens when it all works out right?
    0:55:05 You know what you end up with?
    0:55:07 Babies.
    0:55:13 Little people with their own sense of everything.
    0:55:15 They mess you up.
    0:55:26 You love them dearly, but they’re a hassle, and they’re demanding, and they have their own whims, and now they’re in your world, in your partnership.
    0:55:29 They are factored into everything.
    0:55:43 So even when everything works out and you have the 3.2 kids and you got everything right, it’s still going to be hard because now you’re developing a life, right?
    0:55:53 So I talk about these things because I think that people give up too quickly on marriage, right?
    0:55:57 Because there is so much friction built into the equation.
    0:56:09 And if you’re not getting help talking about it, going to therapy, just understanding how things are changing and how do you continuously renegotiate your relationship with your partner,
    0:56:17 I just see people quitting because they look at me and Barack and go, hashtag couple goals, you know?
    0:56:18 And I’m like, it’s hard.
    0:56:19 It’s hard for us, too.
    0:56:23 But I wouldn’t trade it, you know?
    0:56:26 He is, as the young people say, he is my person.
    0:56:28 Was there ever a moment where you thought?
    0:56:31 You know, there are the moments where I’m like, right?
    0:56:35 But was it real?
    0:56:36 No.
    0:56:37 No.
    0:56:38 No.
    0:56:40 There was never really a full moment.
    0:56:43 There were moments when I was resentful.
    0:56:45 There were moments when I was mad.
    0:56:49 There were moments when I didn’t feel like I got enough attention.
    0:56:54 But it’s like, don’t you feel that in your relationship right now?
    0:56:54 Yeah.
    0:56:55 You know?
    0:56:55 Yeah.
    0:57:01 So it’s just me understanding, yeah, I was mad, but I forgot even why I was mad, right?
    0:57:02 That’s okay.
    0:57:04 It’s like, was I really that mad?
    0:57:05 Oh, did I say that?
    0:57:06 I’m sorry.
    0:57:07 I didn’t really mean that.
    0:57:17 So no, in the end, you know, no, we’re, you know, and the beauty of my husband and my,
    0:57:24 our partnership is that neither one of us was ever really ever going to quit at it because
    0:57:25 that’s not who we are.
    0:57:26 And I know that about him.
    0:57:29 He knows that about me, you know?
    0:57:30 So no.
    0:57:38 Both of your lives change because of a decision that former President Barack Obama decides
    0:57:40 to make, which is to run for public office.
    0:57:45 And that is, has a profound impact on both of your lives because it’s the most powerful
    0:57:46 job in the world.
    0:57:49 It is, you become the most famous family in the world.
    0:57:57 When he said that he was going to do that, did you believe that he was capable of it?
    0:58:00 Yeah, that was the problem.
    0:58:10 It’s like, you know, I, I, I knew that in my heart, I knew that he would make a phenomenal
    0:58:11 president.
    0:58:20 And as I’ve written in, in, in the light, the, the truth was, is that my initial reaction
    0:58:23 was like, oh no, oh my God, don’t do this.
    0:58:29 It had everything to do with having the foresight of knowing what this would do to our lives.
    0:58:34 I mean, I was projecting that if you win, which I thought he could and should, he would be
    0:58:37 somebody that I would want as my president.
    0:58:42 It was all about, this is going to, you know, our kids are little, we’re going to have to
    0:58:43 move.
    0:58:45 How do you raise kids in the White House?
    0:58:47 It’s dangerous.
    0:58:51 It’s the first black potential president.
    0:58:52 We knew there’d be death threats.
    0:58:55 There was just all the, how would we afford it?
    0:58:58 Because it’s, it’s expensive to live in the White House.
    0:59:00 There’s many people don’t know.
    0:59:02 I mean, much is not covered.
    0:59:06 You’re paying for every food, every bit of food that you eat.
    0:59:11 You, you know, you’re not paying for housing and the staff in it, but everything, even travel.
    0:59:16 If you’re not traveling with the president, if your kids are coming on a bright star, which
    0:59:21 is the first lady’s plane, we had to pay for their travel to be on the plane.
    0:59:23 It is an expensive proposition.
    0:59:26 And you’re running for two years and not earning an income.
    0:59:30 So all of that was in my mind.
    0:59:32 How would we manage this?
    0:59:37 So my fears were, came from the fact that I thought he could win.
    0:59:44 You know, because if I, maybe way in the back of my mind, I was hoping that maybe he wouldn’t,
    0:59:47 you know, that this would be the last thing he would do.
    0:59:54 But I knew he had it in him to make this happen.
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    1:00:58 This has never been done before.
    1:01:03 A newsletter that is ran by 100 of the world’s top CEOs.
    1:01:05 All the time people say to me, they say,
    1:01:06 can you mentor me?
    1:01:07 Can you get this person to mentor me?
    1:01:08 How do I find a mentor?
    1:01:10 So here is what we’re going to do.
    1:01:12 You’re going to send me a question.
    1:01:14 And the most popular question you send me,
    1:01:21 I’m going to text it to 100 CEOs, some of which are the top CEOs in the world running $100 billion companies.
    1:01:26 And then I’m going to reply to you via email with how they answered that question.
    1:01:31 You might say, how do you hold on to a relationship when you’re building a startup?
    1:01:34 What is the most important thing if I’ve got an idea and don’t know where to start?
    1:01:35 We email it to the CEOs.
    1:01:36 They email back.
    1:01:38 We take the five, six top best answers.
    1:01:39 We email it to you.
    1:01:42 I was nervous because I thought the marketing might not match the reality.
    1:01:46 But then I saw what the founders were replying with and their willingness to reply.
    1:01:47 And I thought, actually, this is really good.
    1:01:51 And all you’ve got to do is sign up completely free.
    1:01:56 Did you ask for any commitments or promises if he were to win?
    1:02:02 I, you know, it wasn’t very thoughtful.
    1:02:08 I told him that he definitely had to quit smoking because he was still toying with smoking.
    1:02:10 He was in it and not in it.
    1:02:18 And we had to have enough of a nest egg so that, you know, we could, that we wouldn’t be just
    1:02:20 financially broke at the end of it.
    1:02:25 And, you know, I thought that that was going to cut it, right?
    1:02:32 Because we weren’t in really, we were just starting to make decision moves where we were
    1:02:37 covering the income that we lost, making our purposeful moves.
    1:02:39 So I kind of thought that was going to be the deal breaker.
    1:02:44 But then he was chosen to give the speech at the Democratic National Convention.
    1:02:46 And he just blew up.
    1:02:51 And as a result of that, and maybe I’m getting it out of order,
    1:02:55 Dreams for My Father went back on the bestsellers list.
    1:03:02 He wrote Audacity of Hope, you know, so there was all this income that was being generated from
    1:03:03 his book sales.
    1:03:07 And he kind of looked at me like, I think we’re okay.
    1:03:10 And I’m like, darn, drats.
    1:03:15 So I didn’t know enough to know what to ask for.
    1:03:17 I mean, we were flying blind.
    1:03:23 I didn’t know what that journey was going to be and what I would need to negotiate for myself.
    1:03:24 And that was a bit problematic.
    1:03:28 It was problematic not to know what I needed.
    1:03:29 What should you have said?
    1:03:45 Oh, I should have said that I needed his team to really, truly value that he had a family.
    1:03:53 You know, that I shouldn’t have just said, well, this is what it takes to get this done.
    1:03:56 I mean, it was almost like the consultants that sit around.
    1:03:58 It was almost like this is the way it has to be.
    1:04:06 And remember, the legacy of presidential office doesn’t recognize families.
    1:04:09 It is not designed, you know.
    1:04:15 You get in there and it all revolves around the commander-in-chief who has always been a man.
    1:04:27 And the whole system of it doesn’t really take into account that there’s a wife and kids and their needs and the demands on them.
    1:04:32 So I wound up having to fight for a lot of stuff on my own.
    1:04:41 So if I had known these things, and maybe Laura Bush knew more than I did because the Bushes had been in the White House.
    1:04:49 Maybe, you know, I think about maybe there’s some world where people knew more about this thing than we did to understand the impacts.
    1:04:51 But there are also generational differences.
    1:04:53 I was a very different first lady.
    1:04:58 Not terribly different from Hillary Clinton, but it was a different time.
    1:05:02 We had small kids in the White House, and that didn’t happen often.
    1:05:19 There were just accommodations and ways that the West Wing did not think about or work to fully protect all of us in the process as a unit.
    1:05:25 And so if I had known what I knew now, I would have asked for different things.
    1:05:32 But ultimately, I had to push to get the things that we needed to be able to operate as a family.
    1:05:42 Even when it came down to how the Secret Service protected little kids, you know, the girls had to have a detail, right?
    1:05:59 So they started school in second grade and fifth grade in armed cars with primarily men with guns going into a new school, strangers that they did not know.
    1:06:08 And the detail, they weren’t practiced on going to Sidwell’s second grade schoolyard.
    1:06:15 So we had to basically work on how do you do this for little kids, you know?
    1:06:18 So a lot of times details just flood through.
    1:06:20 They continuously move through.
    1:06:34 It was important for me that we find two detail leaders that stayed with the girls for most of their time until they became teenagers because it was sort of like you know these people, right?
    1:06:35 At least they get to know.
    1:06:41 They couldn’t just have strange men coming throughout, and we had to kind of fight for that.
    1:06:53 So that’s just one example of what living under those things and trying to raise small children, you know,
    1:07:02 the kind of things that the guys in the West Wing weren’t thinking about as they were fixing the financial crisis and dealing with Syria and on and on and on.
    1:07:10 I was trying to make sure that our kids came out of that process not crazy and whole.
    1:07:20 Being the first black first lady in the White House, the public scrutiny that that comes with is a unique type of scrutiny.
    1:07:25 Being the first lady anyway comes with tremendous scrutiny.
    1:07:25 Absolutely.
    1:07:37 Since stepping reluctantly into public life, I’ve been held up as the most powerful woman in the world and taken down as an angry black woman.
    1:07:43 I’ve wanted to ask my detractors which part of that phrase matters to them the most.
    1:07:47 Is it angry or black or woman?
    1:07:56 I’ve smiled for photos with people who call my husband horrible names on national television, but still want a framed keepsake for their mantle.
    1:08:05 I’ve heard about the swampy parts of the Internet that question everything about me, right down to whether I’m a woman or man.
    1:08:28 Craig, if that was my little sister, public scrutiny, elevated to the highest office in the land, I’ll ask you the question.
    1:08:30 How did you feel?
    1:08:34 So let me back up.
    1:08:44 Because I had been a basketball coach at a big conference, I always had to tell them, don’t worry about what people say in the newspaper.
    1:08:47 I’m doing exactly what I love to do.
    1:08:50 And that doesn’t bother me at all.
    1:08:50 Okay.
    1:08:58 But then once they got in the White House, I had to tell myself that.
    1:08:59 Yeah.
    1:09:10 Because I knew that they were doing the best that they could do for the most people, no matter what anybody said.
    1:09:30 But because it’s my little sister and brother-in-law and my mom’s in the White House and my nieces, there were times where I would find myself becoming enraged and I’d have to coach myself to, I know they’re doing the best they’re doing, they can do for the most people.
    1:09:36 And I would not want anybody else sitting in that seat but my sister and brother-in-law.
    1:09:39 And that’s how I got through eight years of that.
    1:09:41 Because it’s relentless.
    1:09:42 It is relentless.
    1:09:43 It’s relentless.
    1:09:44 It is global.
    1:09:45 It is unfair.
    1:09:47 And it’s mean.
    1:09:48 It’s just mean.
    1:09:55 And, you know, I lean back on the lessons I learned from my parents a long time ago.
    1:09:58 I wasn’t worried about what anybody said who wasn’t at this table.
    1:10:07 And I coached, counseled my family, my immediate family, the same thing.
    1:10:15 Because our older kids were old enough to read the papers and read the news and things online.
    1:10:18 But Misha always talks about this.
    1:10:25 In order to get through that, she always says she needed the village of her friends and family.
    1:10:28 And I just wanted to be a supportive piece of that.
    1:10:37 And we tried to get out there as much as we could and make it as normal as you can, you know, having Thanksgiving in the White House.
    1:10:43 You know, that’s an oxymoron almost, having a normal Thanksgiving in the White House.
    1:10:45 But we tried to make it as normal as we could.
    1:10:52 And yourself, how does one deal with such scrutiny?
    1:10:57 The scrutiny occurs for eight years as the, you know, the public are at war with different opinions and ideas.
    1:11:01 And often the president is seen as the villain or the hero in that context.
    1:11:03 And the family is obviously impacted by that.
    1:11:07 But then even beyond the White House, it’s relentless.
    1:11:10 What is the, is there a framework?
    1:11:11 Is there an underlying belief?
    1:11:12 Is there a set of values?
    1:11:16 You know, it goes back to what we learned earlier.
    1:11:19 I think I approach everything with empathy.
    1:11:21 And Barack does too.
    1:11:30 And he helps keep me in check because he is so smart and he believes in ideas and he understands context and history.
    1:11:37 You know, we are always putting these times, these moments into a greater context.
    1:11:46 We’re trying to understand where people’s rage, ignorance, hatred, whatever it is, where it comes from.
    1:11:49 And it usually doesn’t have anything to do with us.
    1:11:54 You know, it has to do with the state of the world, you know.
    1:12:01 And the world in this country is unfair for way more people than it is fair to.
    1:12:04 And it impacts people of all races.
    1:12:09 And folks are angry and they’re scared and they don’t have enough opportunity.
    1:12:13 And when people are put in that position, they lash out.
    1:12:14 They’re mean.
    1:12:22 That’s when they’re, you know, we otherize people because it gives us a sense of stability.
    1:12:24 We pick on someone.
    1:12:27 Someone has to be a little more oppressed than us.
    1:12:31 But that doesn’t make what they say or feel true, you know.
    1:12:43 That’s, you know, just because you say it or think it about me and the way that I had to overcome the racist low expectations of us in our childhood, it’s the same thing.
    1:12:46 It’s like, you’re not mad at me.
    1:12:49 You don’t understand a lot about the world.
    1:12:55 And you’ve been told a lot of things about who people of my skin color are.
    1:13:00 You’ve been taught to fear me because of the history of our country, because of what you’re going through.
    1:13:06 And when you put yourself in other people’s shoes, I do get why people are afraid.
    1:13:08 I do understand it.
    1:13:16 And also, Barack helps me remember, which I experienced myself, you know, he says this is still the country that elected Barack Obama twice.
    1:13:20 You know, and people in this country are proud of that.
    1:13:33 There is a very small percentage of people who would never, ever in their lifetime want a black man to tell them how to get down the street to the grocery store, right?
    1:13:34 They can’t hear it.
    1:13:39 But this country is bigger than that, right?
    1:13:41 And we saw it.
    1:13:42 We experienced it.
    1:13:59 As much hatred or, you know, conflict or ridicule, we had so much love, so much goodwill, you know, so many people who tell us even today we miss you guys, you know.
    1:14:07 And it doesn’t look like any, you’d be surprised at what corners of the world, and our daughters felt it and feel it, right?
    1:14:09 That is true, too.
    1:14:24 We are in a really tough time right now, and we are being led, sadly, by people who are not being, in my opinion, their best selves for whatever reasons they have,
    1:14:31 whatever is moving them to push this country in this direction, whatever hurts they have.
    1:14:33 Billionaires have their hurts, too.
    1:14:46 You know, business leaders, people in power who want power and haven’t understood their why, you know, can lead us down some dark tunnels, right?
    1:15:01 But it’s that empathy for me, that ability to kind of give it some perspective that allows me not to take all that hate in and to really, you know, see the light in people, you know?
    1:15:03 It’s just a better way to live.
    1:15:12 It keeps us from being embittered, and it keeps us hopeful, and it keeps us working for people, you know?
    1:15:16 So it’s kind of a necessity to get through it.
    1:15:20 Marion, your wonderful mother.
    1:15:23 She was a prominent figure throughout that time in the White House.
    1:15:24 Oh, yeah.
    1:15:35 What did she give you that helped you through that journey of being thrust into the very, very, very highest mountain in public service?
    1:15:37 What role did she play?
    1:15:39 What force was she at that time for you both?
    1:15:54 For me, she continued to be that soft place to land, you know, the place where she always saw me, always, always saw who I was.
    1:15:59 And she was that soft place for our girls.
    1:16:05 She was common sense right in the middle of the White House, you know, in that big house.
    1:16:16 People, you know, just with her sheer presence and her wisdom, you know, that old-fashioned wisdom, she was the center of that house.
    1:16:23 Everyone came to her door and sat in her room and sucked up her wisdom.
    1:16:35 The butlers, the, you know, the florists, the housekeepers, the chefs, you know, they were all mothered in some way by her.
    1:16:38 And so she was that for me, for sure.
    1:16:41 I can still see her in your face as you reflect.
    1:16:42 She’s there.
    1:16:44 She is there.
    1:16:45 I see it in his face more.
    1:16:50 You know, you don’t see yourself in your, like, I don’t think I look like him at all, right?
    1:16:52 But he looks just like my mother, right?
    1:16:54 How did that loss impact the family?
    1:16:57 It’s 2024, so it’s fairly recent.
    1:17:01 Yeah, yeah, it’s still painful.
    1:17:08 But, you know, I’ll go back to what I said at the very beginning when you talked about the values we had.
    1:17:13 The underlying value was unconditional love.
    1:17:17 And Misha and I knew that our mom loved us.
    1:17:23 And even more importantly, she knew we loved her.
    1:17:25 She knew her grandkids loved her.
    1:17:37 So while her dying was traumatic and disappointing and sad, I always feel like she knew where we stood.
    1:17:47 And she was, it was when she was, right before she passed away, and we knew she was going to be leaving us.
    1:17:51 And I said, you know, Misha and Barack are on our way.
    1:17:53 And she was like, oh, that’s nice.
    1:17:55 And she just said that.
    1:17:59 Yeah.
    1:18:03 There was nothing left unsaid.
    1:18:03 Yeah.
    1:18:04 Yeah.
    1:18:08 And there’s just a peace.
    1:18:09 Yeah.
    1:18:12 I just miss her, right?
    1:18:20 But I feel like she knows how we feel about her, and that’s always comforting.
    1:18:27 And speaking of comfort, that’s how I felt when she was in the White House, for them.
    1:18:31 Because I didn’t have to worry about them when she was there.
    1:18:34 Have you processed the grief?
    1:18:35 Have you been able to?
    1:18:41 I’m sure I have more than he does, because he doesn’t process stuff.
    1:18:44 He just keeps working through it.
    1:18:58 But, yeah, yeah, I think I, for me, making choices for me, I feel like now I have permission to do what I want to do.
    1:19:02 I think part of our podcast is part of that legacy.
    1:19:19 Because, at least for me as a woman, I think at 61, I’m finally owning my wisdom in a way that I don’t, you know, I think it takes women until we’re about 60 to be like, I think I know a thing or two.
    1:19:27 But that wisdom comes from her, and she’s our last line of elder wisdom.
    1:19:29 And so now we’re up.
    1:19:31 We’re next up, believe it or not.
    1:19:34 Me and Craig and our family, we’re the ones.
    1:19:42 So IMO, in my opinion, our podcast, is sort of that offering back.
    1:19:47 It’s like, all right, let’s keep up the mentoring that we were taught.
    1:19:58 You know, let’s create our table and be a place where people can come for the little bit of advice and conversation in the same way that you’re doing, Stephen.
    1:20:07 It’s like when you learn something, the way you hone in on it is that you keep teaching it to other people, right?
    1:20:09 You said that, right?
    1:20:23 And so this is sort of helping us continue to, you know, by helping others, which is a thing we both get great joy from, that mentoring, just being able to, you know, have this conversation here.
    1:20:28 And maybe somebody’s going to get something from it that I missed when I was their age.
    1:20:30 That brings us joy.
    1:20:38 It’s like we’re here for a reason other than making a bunch of money and, you know, living a nice life or being famous.
    1:20:40 It’s like maybe we can help somebody.
    1:20:41 Permission.
    1:20:48 I was watching the coverage over your decision, your decision to sort of take back some of your control and not go to Trump’s inauguration.
    1:20:53 Is that one of those key moments in your life where you did take back control?
    1:20:53 Absolutely.
    1:20:54 Absolutely.
    1:20:56 What was the thinking behind that decision?
    1:21:16 What do I want to do in this moment, you know, as a box checking, a person who has been box checking her whole life, doing the right thing, trying to always be an example, always going high.
    1:21:22 I think now I earned a little bit about, well, how do I feel, you know?
    1:21:31 Do I want to up in my life and take this trip and leave my peace and my children for this?
    1:21:34 I didn’t have to.
    1:21:35 That was my choice.
    1:21:39 And I was not—I would have never made that choice.
    1:21:47 I would have always done what I thought was the right thing to do for other people to set an example.
    1:21:53 And I think I just told myself, I think I’ve done enough of that.
    1:21:56 And if I haven’t, then I never will.
    1:21:57 It’ll never be enough.
    1:21:59 So let me start now.
    1:22:02 This is the perfect time to start.
    1:22:04 So, yeah.
    1:22:09 Obviously, off the back of that, people start to swell rumors that there’s an issue with you and Brock and there’s a divorce coming.
    1:22:14 I can—I mean, you can say it yourself, but I don’t think that needs to be addressed.
    1:22:24 But what I will say, you know me now well enough, Stephen, is if I were having problems with my husband, everybody would know about it.
    1:22:27 I’d be like, and let me tell you.
    1:22:29 And he would know it and everybody would know it.
    1:22:30 I’m not a martyr.
    1:22:32 I’m not, you know.
    1:22:38 And I would be problem-solving in public and be like, let me tell you what he did.
    1:22:39 Listen, if they were—
    1:22:40 He’s got a podcast now as well, so we were—
    1:22:44 Wait, but if they were having a problem, I’d be doing a podcast with him.
    1:22:52 Your podcast is incredible, and I highly recommend everybody goes and checks it out.
    1:22:53 I’m going to link it below on the screen.
    1:22:57 I was fortunate enough to be invited on it yesterday, and we had a wonderful conversation in there.
    1:22:57 We sure did.
    1:23:03 I-M-O, in my opinion, it’s a reflection of this kind of conversation.
    1:23:04 It’s human.
    1:23:05 It’s a discovery of life.
    1:23:12 You’re bringing people on there that have wisdom to share, but you’re passing through that to understand the world that we’re all living in and the struggles that we’re all contending with.
    1:23:14 So it’s a wonderful, wonderful space on the internet.
    1:23:18 I highly recommend my viewers go and check it out on Spotify, on YouTube, wherever you get your podcasts.
    1:23:29 It’s a must-listen, in my opinion, because it’s so rare that we get an insight and a window into the family, but also just the human story of everything that you’ve both been through in your lives.
    1:23:35 As a really successful coach, as a stockbroker, as the first lady, as a mother, and then everything you’re going to do thereafter.
    1:23:40 You’re helping me navigate the world, and you help other people navigate the world, because not everybody has that foundation.
    1:23:42 Not everybody has the parents at home.
    1:23:50 Not everybody has, especially in black communities, not everybody has the mentors, and you’re vicariously mentoring the world through that show.
    1:23:51 So please do continue.
    1:23:55 It’s a wonderful thing to get to podcast, and I was so happy to hear when you joined the industry.
    1:24:02 We have a closing tradition, and the closing tradition on this podcast is that the last guest leaves a question for the next guest, not knowing who they’re leaving it for.
    1:24:03 Okay.
    1:24:14 So the question that’s been left for you both is, if there is one person in your life that you have been afraid of putting up a boundary with, but know you need to, who would it be?
    1:24:19 Now, you don’t have to name them, but I guess this question is just about boundaries.
    1:24:24 The inauguration might have been the answer.
    1:24:26 Yeah, I think I’ve kind of done that.
    1:24:26 Yeah.
    1:24:31 Yeah, but at this age, we got our boundaries well set.
    1:24:44 I think that’s, because we’re not naming a who, I think it’s the act of practicing setting boundaries, period, right?
    1:24:48 And I’m having that conversation with my daughters now.
    1:25:00 I mean, it takes a lot of work to learn how to say no and how not to be people pleasers, which I think there are more of us out there than we’d like to admit.
    1:25:04 It takes practice and it takes decades of practice.
    1:25:20 And I am constantly giving my girls tips on how to do it, how to politely do it, how to, you know, how to not jam yourself up, how to not say yes right away, how to take a moment and say, let me think about that.
    1:25:28 You know, some of a boundary is just saying, wait, I don’t have to give you an answer right now.
    1:25:35 Let me go back and sit in it, in the request and figure out whether it works for me.
    1:25:41 And so many of us, as pleasers, we’re trying to give people an answer right away.
    1:25:45 And it’s hard to look someone in the face and say no.
    1:25:49 So I think it takes practice, even practice in the wording of it.
    1:25:52 And then the older you get, the easier it gets.
    1:25:53 Because guess what you realize?
    1:25:57 Your no doesn’t usually change anyone else’s life.
    1:26:00 You know, they might be disappointed, but guess what?
    1:26:05 It all, they will find the next, you know, person that they’ll ask.
    1:26:06 The world continues.
    1:26:08 None of us are that important.
    1:26:13 And people can deal with a little disappointment every now and then.
    1:26:15 And with that, I thank you both.
    1:26:19 It’s such an honor to get to meet you and to learn so much from you.
    1:26:26 And yeah, the rise of your family, the grace, the humility, and the way that you’ve conducted yourself has been a huge source of inspiration for me.
    1:26:30 As a young black man that’s navigating the world and that’s looking up to role models.
    1:26:35 That aren’t often as in close proximity in our lives.
    1:26:36 So thank you so much.
    1:26:40 I can’t tell you how much you had a profound impact on me.
    1:26:48 Thousands of miles away in a small little village in the southwest of England had a profound impact on me in shaping the man that I became in my life.
    1:26:50 And that’s a credit to your family.
    1:26:52 And it’s just the greatest honor that I got to speak to you both today.
    1:26:53 So thank you.
    1:26:55 It’s been a pleasure.
    1:26:58 Absolute treat to be spending time with you.
    1:26:59 Thanks for having us on.
    1:27:00 Hopefully it won’t be the last.
    1:27:01 I hope not.
    1:27:01 Yeah.
    1:27:14 I find it incredibly fascinating that when we look at the back end of Spotify and Apple and our audio channels, the majority of people that watch this podcast haven’t yet hit the follow button or the subscribe button.
    1:27:16 Wherever you’re listening to this, I would like to make a deal with you.
    1:27:24 If you could do me a huge favor and hit that subscribe button, I will work tirelessly from now until forever to make the show better and better and better and better.
    1:27:27 I can’t tell you how much it helps when you hit that subscribe button.
    1:27:33 The show gets bigger, which means we can expand the production, bring in all the guests you want to see and continue to do in this thing we love.
    1:27:37 If you could do me that small favor and hit the follow button, wherever you’re listening to this, that would mean the world to me.
    1:27:39 That is the only favor I will ever ask you.
    1:27:41 Thank you so much for your time.
    Những người có quyền lực mà không hiểu lý do của bản thân có thể dẫn dắt chúng ta xuống những con đường tối tăm. Chúng ta đang ở trong một thời điểm thực sự khó khăn hiện nay. Chỉ có một Michelle Obama duy nhất. Cựu Đệ nhất phu nhân. Và anh trai của cô, Craig Robinson, đang chia sẻ những góc nhìn hiếm hoi của họ vào một thế giới rất ít người có được trải nghiệm. Tôi lớn lên trong một khu phố chủ yếu là người da đen và chúng tôi được dạy những giá trị nền tảng để có thể hoạt động trong xã hội. Nhưng khi lớn lên, tôi chỉ làm cho có, và rồi tôi gặp Barack Obama. Anh ấy xuất hiện trong cuộc đời tôi như một người không phải là kẻ “điền vào ô”. Bạn đã từ chối anh ấy lúc đầu, đúng không? Ừ. Tôi thậm chí đã cố gắng giới thiệu anh ấy với một số bạn của tôi. Anh ấy nói, tại sao chúng ta không ra ngoài? Và bạn nghĩ gì về anh ấy? Thành thật mà nói, tôi nghĩ, có thể anh ấy sẽ chỉ ở lại được hai tháng. Tôi nhớ mẹ tôi đã nói, ít nhất thì anh ấy cũng cao. Nhưng điều tiếp theo bạn biết đấy, chúng tôi đã trên đường xây dựng cuộc sống cùng nhau. Phản ứng ban đầu của tôi là, đừng làm điều này. Sẽ có những mối đe dọa đến tính mạng. Làm thế nào để nuôi con trong Nhà Trắng? Chúng tôi sẽ chi trả như thế nào? Bạn có yêu cầu bất kỳ lời hứa nào nếu anh ấy thắng không? Tôi không biết hành trình đó sẽ như thế nào và tôi cần thương lượng điều gì cho bản thân. Và nếu tôi biết những gì tôi biết bây giờ, tôi nên nói. Michelle, tôi đã theo dõi tin tức về quyết định của bạn không tham dự lễ nhậm chức của Trump. Suy nghĩ đằng sau điều đó là gì? Sự thật là, tôi thấy thật thú vị khi khi chúng ta nhìn vào phía sau của Spotify và Apple và các kênh audio của chúng ta, đa số người xem podcast này chưa nhấn nút theo dõi hoặc nút đăng ký, dù bạn đang nghe ở đâu. Tôi muốn làm một thỏa thuận với bạn. Nếu bạn có thể giúp tôi một ơn lớn là nhấn nút đăng ký, tôi sẽ làm việc không ngừng nghỉ từ bây giờ cho đến mãi mãi để làm cho chương trình ngày càng tốt hơn. Tôi không thể nói cho bạn biết nó giúp ích bao nhiêu khi bạn nhấn nút đăng ký. Chương trình trở nên lớn hơn, có nghĩa là chúng tôi có thể mở rộng sản xuất, đưa vào tất cả các khách mời mà bạn muốn gặp và tiếp tục làm điều mà chúng tôi yêu thích. Nếu bạn có thể giúp tôi một ơn nhỏ và nhấn nút theo dõi, ở bất kỳ đâu bạn đang nghe điều này, điều đó sẽ có ý nghĩa lớn với tôi. Đó là ơn duy nhất mà tôi sẽ bao giờ yêu cầu bạn. Cảm ơn bạn rất nhiều vì đã dành thời gian. Michelle, Craig, tôi cần biết điều gì về bối cảnh ban đầu của bạn để hiểu người lớn. Và tôi sử dụng từ đó một cách cố ý bởi vì tôi biết đó là điều mà cha mẹ bạn mong muốn nuôi dưỡng, những người lớn đang đứng trước mặt tôi ngày hôm nay. Nó bắt đầu ở 7436 South Euclid. Bạn biết đấy, trung tâm của tất cả. Đó là ngôi nhà mà chúng tôi lớn lên ở phía nam Chicago. Và đó là một ngôi nhà rất nhỏ. Chúng tôi sống trên tầng của cô Robbie. Đó là một ngôi nhà gia đình, một bungalow ở phía nam Chicago. Và cô Robbie của chúng tôi đã kết hôn với chồng cô, Terry. Họ sở hữu ngôi nhà đó. Và họ có một căn hộ nhỏ, gần như một phòng ngủ, hai phòng ngủ trên ngôi nhà. Vì vậy, đó là một ngôi nhà hai gia đình. Chúng tôi sống chung với gia đình mở rộng. Đó là cộng đồng của những người mà bạn biết, có lẽ vì mọi người không có nhiều nguồn lực, nên mọi người sống cùng nhau. Bạn biết đấy, chúng tôi chia sẻ không gian. Chúng tôi sống cạnh nhau. Và chúng tôi sống với bà bác lớn của mình vì điều đó giúp bố mẹ chúng tôi tiết kiệm chút tiền và đưa chúng tôi vào một khu phố tốt hơn. Bởi vì cha tôi là một công nhân thành phố. Ông là một người lao động, không có bằng cấp đại học. Và làm việc cho thành phố là một công việc thực sự ổn định vì nó cho bạn những phúc lợi và một chút ổn định. Và mẹ tôi muốn ở nhà nuôi con. Vì vậy, để tiết kiệm tiền, chúng tôi đã đoàn kết lại và sống với cô Robbie. Tất cả những cuộc phiêu lưu và bài học mà tôi đã học được, khi tôi nghĩ về những giá trị nền tảng của mình, ngôi nhà đó thật sự, và tất cả những trải nghiệm và cuộc trò chuyện, bắt đầu từ bàn bếp của tôi ở 74th và Euclid. Tôi nói về điều này vì bạn nghĩ rằng đó là một cung điện, nhưng đây chỉ là một ngôi nhà nhỏ. Chúng tôi chia sẻ một phòng ngủ hầu hết cuộc đời của mình vì không đủ chỗ cho mỗi người có một phòng riêng. Chúng tôi chia sẻ không gian, một phòng tắm. Không có phòng ăn. Chỉ có một nhà bếp. Và cách nó được thiết lập, cách nó được sử dụng, đó là một căn hộ một phòng ngủ. Và phòng khách là căn phòng mà chúng tôi chia sẻ như một phòng ngủ. Và căn phòng một ngủ mà nó có là nơi bố mẹ tôi sống. Và toàn bộ không gian có thể chỉ 700 bộ vuông. Bạn đã nói về những giá trị nền tảng. Những giá trị nền tảng đó là gì mà bạn đã học được ở đó? Và bố mẹ bạn đã dạy bạn những giá trị nền tảng đó như thế nào? Và tôi hỏi điều đó với sự tò mò lớn bởi vì khi tôi đọc cả hai cuốn sách của bạn, có những khoảnh khắc trong sự nghiệp của bạn mà, như những người lớn ở độ tuổi cuối 20, những giá trị đó xuất hiện rất rõ ràng hết lần này đến lần khác. Và khi tôi đọc nó, tôi đã nghĩ, ôi, cha mẹ họ đã làm gì để định hướng cho họ một cách rõ ràng như vậy? Nơi tại những thời điểm then chốt trong cả hai sự nghiệp của bạn, bạn đưa ra quyết định không nhận tiền lương cao hơn hoặc không theo đuổi thứ gì đó có địa vị cao hơn và làm điều gì đó khác, hoặc là điều gì đó phù hợp với đam mê và sở thích của bạn hoặc điều gì đó phục vụ người khác. Vậy những giá trị đó là gì? Và cha mẹ bạn đã truyền đạt những điều đó cho bạn như thế nào? Tôi nghĩ rằng cha mẹ chúng tôi đã làm gương. Nếu tôi phải nghĩ về một từ để mô tả cha tôi, ông chỉ là một người đàn ông đàng hoàng. Đàng hoàng, trung thực, hardworking và trung thành, đáng tin cậy. Tôi có nghĩa là đây là những điều mà chúng tôi đã nói về. Chúng tôi không có những điều vật chất. Ông không thể cung cấp điều đó. Nhưng ông cung cấp một tập hợp các bài học về điều gì có nghĩa là trở thành một người bạn tốt. Ông là người lớn tuổi trong gia đình, lớn nhất trong, cái gì, năm? Và mẹ tôi là đứa giữa. Và ông đã chăm sóc mọi người, mặc dù ông đã mắc bệnh xơ cứng nhiều nơi và phải đi lại bằng sự hỗ trợ. Ông đã có một cây gậy khi chúng tôi còn nhỏ. Tôi chưa bao giờ biết cha tôi đi đứng mà không cần sự hỗ trợ của một cây gậy.
    Và bệnh MS là một bệnh tiến triển. Qua suốt cuộc đời của ông, ông ngày càng yếu đi. Nhưng ông là người mạnh mẽ nhất trong vòng tay của mọi người. Không bao giờ nghỉ việc vì ốm. Không bao giờ nghỉ việc vì ốm. Ông là người cha đã nuôi nấng tất cả những đứa trẻ khác trong khu phố. Bạn biết đấy, khi Craig chơi bóng rổ, ông là người có mặt trong hầu hết các buổi tập, nếu ông có thể, nếu ca làm việc của ông cho phép. Ông là người cha trong khu phố mà nhiều đứa trẻ không có những hình mẫu như vậy. Và dù chúng tôi không có nhiều, nhưng không bao giờ có thời điểm nào mà cha tôi không giúp đỡ ai đó. Vì vậy, bạn biết đấy, tôi đoán những giá trị đó, nơi bạn chăm sóc mọi người, bạn biết đấy, tiền bạc thực sự không quan trọng. Đó không phải là điều làm bạn vĩ đại. Đó là cách bạn thể hiện mình trong thế giới. Đó là lời hứa của bạn. Đó là, bạn biết đấy, cách bạn đối xử với người khác. Để nói như Misha, ông là người đã cho trẻ em đi xe đến buổi tập và các trận đấu vì cha mẹ chúng không thể đến. Và ông đã chia sẻ những câu chuyện, chia sẻ giá trị của mình. Đó đã trở thành một phần không thể tách rời trong con người ông để truyền lại kiến thức mà ông có. Và về mẹ tôi, bạn biết đấy, tôi nghĩ mẹ tôi là nơi, ít nhất là nơi tôi có được gen từ thiện. Không phải với tiền, vì chúng tôi không có, mà với thời gian và các nguồn lực của chúng tôi, bất cứ nguồn lực nào mà chúng tôi có. Điều đứng sau tất cả những điều này là tình yêu vô điều kiện. Đó là một công cụ trong hộp công cụ mà bạn đôi khi thậm chí không nhận ra nó có đó nếu bạn đủ may mắn để có. Đúng vậy. Bởi vì đó là tấm thạch quyển nằm dưới bạn mà bạn không bao giờ có thể nhìn thấy, nhưng cung cấp cho bạn một cảm giác nào đó về, tôi đoán, rủi ro và hành động. Và biết rằng, bạn biết đấy, không chỉ là tình yêu vô điều kiện, mà cha mẹ chúng ta tin tưởng vào chúng ta. Họ coi trọng tiếng nói của chúng ta. Ý tôi là, họ thực sự thích nghe chúng ta nói. Họ khuyến khích chúng ta suy nghĩ thành lời và giải quyết vấn đề và đến gặp họ với những vấn đề của họ nhưng không phải là người sẽ giải quyết nó. Và điều này rất hữu ích khi bạn là một đứa trẻ trong trường công lập, bởi vì, bạn biết đấy, ở trường công lập, phía nam Chicago, việc dạy học khá không đồng đều. Bạn biết đấy, năm này bạn có thể có một giáo viên quan tâm và đầu tư vào học sinh. Một lớp khác, bạn có thể có một giáo viên không quan tâm. Và tôi nhớ rất rõ, tôi bắt đầu lớp hai và tôi đã đến một lớp học hoàn toàn hỗn loạn. Giáo viên rõ ràng không muốn có mặt ở đó. Và tôi nhận ra điều này ở lớp hai. Và không có trật tự nào cả. Chúng tôi không có bài tập về nhà. Chúng tôi không thực hiện các bài học thông thường. Và tôi biết rằng có điều gì đó không ổn. Tôi đã về nhà vào giờ ăn trưa và tôi đã phàn nàn về việc, hôm nay không có gì xảy ra ở trường, bạn biết đấy. Và tôi không biết lớp hai nên là như thế nào, nhưng tôi không cảm thấy mình đang nhận được những gì tôi cần từ lớp hai. Phải mất một tháng tôi mới về nhà và phàn nàn. Và mẹ tôi đã lặng lẽ lắng nghe, nhưng bà không chỉ lắng nghe. Bà đang lập kế hoạch. Sau một tháng, bà đã lên trường, theo dõi và thấy rằng giáo viên này không chỉ không dạy mà có vẻ như bà ấy thậm chí không thích trẻ con. Vì vậy, bà đã vào văn phòng hiệu trưởng và đã chỉ trích họ. Tôi không biết bà đã nói gì hoặc làm gì, nhưng ba chúng tôi đã được gọi ra khỏi lớp để kiểm tra. Và tôi nhớ rõ, tôi chỉ không phải vào lớp đó. Và tôi đã dành một vài tuần để làm một số bài kiểm tra chuyên biệt. Chúng tôi chỉ làm các bài kiểm tra dạng ô. Không biết đó là cái gì. Có kết quả, và kết quả cho thấy tôi có thể bỏ qua lớp hai. Và đó là một phép màu cho tôi. Nhưng tôi sẽ không bao giờ quên, cuối cùng mẹ tôi đã làm. Tôi sẽ nghe thấy những phàn nàn từ cha tôi về giáo viên này, bạn biết đấy, những giáo viên không quan tâm đến những đứa trẻ này. Bà đã giúp chúng tôi ra ngoài, nhưng bà lo lắng cho những đứa trẻ bị mắc kẹt trong lớp hai đó, những đứa trẻ không có cha mẹ là người bảo vệ cho chúng, những người mà bạn biết đấy, sẽ trải qua một năm lãng phí ở lớp hai mà không nhận được những gì chúng sẽ mất. Nhưng đó là một trong những trường hợp mà tôi biết rằng nếu có kêu cứu từ tôi được mẹ tôi nghe thấy và hành động. Bà có thể đã là một trong những người mẹ nói rằng, ồ, bạn biết đấy, cuộc sống là cuộc sống. Hãy sắp xếp lại làm cho ổn định. Nhưng bà biết rằng có điều gì đó khác biệt và những gì tôi muốn và những gì tôi cần. Và bà, bạn biết đấy, đã biến điều đó thành hiện thực. Điều đó có dạy bạn cách đáp lại những người khác đang kêu gọi sự giúp đỡ không? Có lẽ là có. Ý tôi là, tôi vẫn nhớ những đứa trẻ bị bỏ lại phía sau. Ý tôi là, có điều gì đó thực sự chạm đến tôi về những đứa trẻ sáng dạ như chúng tôi, bởi vì chúng tôi lớn lên cùng nhau. Bạn biết đấy, mẹ tôi đã thấy chúng. Và sự khác biệt duy nhất giữa tôi và chúng là chúng có một người mẹ quan tâm. Và rất nhiều cuộc sống của chúng trông hoàn toàn khác với cuộc sống của chúng tôi vì điều đó. Và tôi thấy mình là người bảo vệ cho những đứa trẻ đó, những đứa trẻ bị đánh giá thấp và thiếu hỗ trợ. Và đó là những đứa trẻ, hầu hết trẻ em trên toàn thế giới. Vì vậy, tôi thấy rằng khoảnh khắc đó đối với tôi là một sự định hình theo cách khá cơ bản về cách tôi chiến đấu cho trẻ em theo cách tôi thấy mẹ tôi đã chiến đấu cho tôi. Chủng tộc. Một trong những điều đáng ngạc nhiên với hai bức ảnh này, chủ yếu vì tôi nghĩ nó theo cách này, nhưng đây là, tôi tin rằng, lớp hai hay điều gì đó? Đó là lớp một. Lớp một. Và đây là lớp bảy hay lớp tám? Lớp bảy hay lớp tám, đúng vậy. Có ít người da trắng hơn rất nhiều trong bức ảnh thứ hai, điều này có nghĩa là, điều này giả định rằng người da trắng bắt đầu rời khỏi trường của bạn. Ôi, hoàn toàn. Họ rời khỏi khu phố, rời khỏi toàn bộ South Shore. Câu hỏi của tôi thực sự là chủng tộc đã đóng vai trò gì trong tuổi thơ của bạn? Bởi vì tôi nghĩ về tuổi thơ của riêng tôi, và đó là một yếu tố rất nổi bật trong việc hình thành tôi trở thành ai và tôi nghĩ về thế giới như thế nào và thực sự tôi nghĩ về chính mình như thế nào. Vì vậy, chủng tộc là một vấn đề đối với những người trẻ tuổi ở Chicago.
    Nó đã đóng vai trò gì?
    Tôi nghĩ rằng trong gia đình chúng tôi có rất nhiều niềm tự hào về chủng tộc.
    Có một cảm giác này, một sự hiểu biết rằng do sự định kiến của mọi người, sẽ có rất nhiều người da trắng đánh giá thấp bạn, đối xử tồi tệ với bạn, và cho rằng những điều không đúng về bạn.
    Gia đình chúng tôi, toàn bộ gia đình hai bên, là những người thông minh, tài năng và có năng khiếu, một gia đình lớn như vậy nhưng tất cả đều là người lao động, đúng không?
    Vì vậy, chúng tôi sống giữa những xuất sắc thực sự, bình thường, bạn biết không?
    Ý tôi là, có những người là giáo viên và kỹ sư, tất cả anh chị em họ của chúng tôi đều là những người được kỳ vọng sẽ học tốt ở trường.
    Vì vậy, chúng tôi được dạy rằng không ai giỏi hơn, thông minh hơn bạn.
    Bạn biết đấy, bạn có khả năng.
    Cha tôi là người đã truyền đạt điều đó cho nhiều anh chị em họ của chúng tôi nếu họ không có loại năng lượng đó trong cuộc sống.
    Luôn luôn như vậy, bạn làm được, và bạn biết mình đang làm gì.
    Vì vậy, trong gia đình chúng tôi, có niềm tự hào về chủng tộc.
    Nhưng khi bạn sống trong—khi chúng tôi chuyển đến South Shore, vào nhà của Robbie, nhà dì Robbie của chúng tôi, hầu hết bạn bè trong khu phố của tôi là những đứa trẻ da trắng.
    Rachel Dempsey và Susan Yacker và Sofinant Concepont, một cô gái Hàn Quốc vì chúng tôi sống gần một bệnh viện khi mẹ cô ấy là y tá.
    Vì vậy, nơi đó rất đa dạng—những người quản lý là một gia đình da đen nhưng có thể trông như da trắng.
    Ý tôi là, có đủ mọi người trong khu phố.
    Bà Mason, người phụ nữ da trắng nhỏ tuổi ở bên kia đường, và hàng xóm của chúng tôi là gia đình Mendoza, người Mexico.
    Bạn biết đấy, có đủ mọi thứ xung quanh chúng tôi.
    Và mọi người đều hòa thuận.
    Hàng xóm quen biết nhau.
    Chúng tôi chơi với nhau.
    Tôi đã đến nhà Rachel và ăn trưa, và, bạn biết đấy, nhưng một năm nọ, như thể đèn đã tắt đối với người da trắng, và họ đã biến mất không dấu vết, bạn biết không?
    Họ gọi đây là sự bay biến của người da trắng.
    Đây là sự bay biến của người da trắng và hành động.
    Vâng, vâng.
    Và vì vậy bạn—
    Đối với bất kỳ ai không có bối cảnh về sự bay biến của người da trắng, đó là gì?
    Đó là hiện tượng xã hội học xảy ra trong các cộng đồng khi những người da đen bắt đầu cải thiện vị thế xã hội và có thể mua hoặc thuê nhà ở những khu phố chủ yếu là da trắng.
    Vì vậy, thay vì người da trắng chấp nhận nó, họ bán nhà hàng loạt.
    Có một loại cảm xúc thầm lặng rằng chúng ta cần phải ra ngoài vì những gia đình da đen đang đến sẽ làm hỏng khu phố và làm giảm giá trị bất động sản.
    Vì vậy, bạn nên bán ngay bây giờ và đi xa hơn về phía nam vào các vùng ngoại ô phía nam.
    Và vì vậy, khi bạn còn trẻ, bạn cảm thấy có điều gì đó đang xảy ra.
    Bạn biết không, không phải chúng tôi ngồi quanh bàn bếp nói về sự bay biến của người da trắng.
    Nhưng những gì bạn biết và cảm nhận khi còn là một đứa trẻ là, kiểu như, những người này đang chạy trốn khỏi chúng tôi, bạn biết đấy?
    Nó như cha tôi, người này, bạn biết đấy, là một người vô cùng tốt bụng và hào phóng, người mà chắc chắn sẽ tốt cho nhiều đứa trẻ của những người này, của những người da trắng, nếu họ biết và ở bên chúng tôi, những người đã trở thành chính mình, và chúng tôi luôn sẽ là như vậy.
    Bạn đang chạy trốn khỏi chúng tôi.
    Cảm giác của chúng tôi là, thật ngu ngốc khi có sự phân biệt chủng tộc và bạn thật ngu ngốc khi không thực sự nhìn nhận và tìm hiểu?
    Vì vậy, chủng tộc đối với tôi và gia đình tôi chỉ là một biểu hiện ngớ ngẩn của những người ngu dốt.
    Nhưng chúng tôi được dạy để tiếp tục vượt qua điều đó.
    Làm thế nào bạn ngăn nó ảnh hưởng đến bạn?
    Một trong những điều đặc biệt mà tôi nhận thấy, ngay cả khi chúng tôi dành một chút thời gian cùng nhau hôm qua, là không có sự đắng cay nào rõ ràng.
    Và một người có thể nói rằng có lý do để cảm thấy như vậy.
    Bởi vì khi bạn rất mạnh mẽ và nổi bật và rất nổi tiếng, bạn tiếp xúc với mọi thứ.
    Và trải qua những trải nghiệm đó trong những năm đầu đời và sau đó trải qua mọi thứ đã xảy ra sau đó, không có vẻ như có bất kỳ sự đắng cay nào.
    Không có vẻ như có bất kỳ tâm trạng khó chịu nào, bất kỳ sự tức giận nào.
    Vâng.
    Đôi khi có.
    Vâng.
    Bạn chỉ không thể hiện điều đó.
    Bạn chỉ không thể hiện điều đó.
    Nhưng tôi sẽ nói rằng, ít nhất từ quan điểm của tôi, mẹ và cha, nhưng mẹ đặc biệt, bà đã dạy chúng tôi sự cảm thông.
    Gần như đến mức quá mức, đúng không?
    Vì vậy, bà luôn nói, bạn nhớ bà luôn nói, hãy đặt mình vào vị trí của người khác.
    Và bà luôn nói, bạn không bao giờ biết điều gì đang xảy ra trong nhà của người khác.
    Vì vậy, tôi luôn tiếp cận sự tiêu cực đối với mình bằng sự cảm thông.
    Đó là điều đầu tiên.
    Kiểu như, ôi, chuyện gì đã xảy ra với bạn?
    Chuyện gì đã xảy ra với bạn khiến bạn trở nên xấu bụng và độc ác như vậy?
    Điều khác mà cha mẹ chúng tôi rất chú trọng là, đừng quan tâm đến bất cứ điều gì mà những người không ngồi ở bàn này nghĩ.
    Nếu chúng tôi từng nói ai đó đã nói gì và điều đó ảnh hưởng đến cách chúng tôi cư xử, đó là lúc bạn thấy sự tức giận từ cha mẹ tôi.
    Đó là lúc bạn gặp rắc rối.
    Bạn đã gặp rắc rối với cha mẹ tôi.
    Ý tôi là, họ sẽ phản ứng ngay lập tức.
    Họ sẽ nói lại như thế nào?
    Họ sẽ hỏi, vậy bạn đang nói rằng điều mà ai đó ở đây đã nói quan trọng hơn những gì bạn nghe quanh bàn này, thì bạn có thể đi sống với người đó.
    Ý tôi là, bạn biết đấy, những cảnh cáo trong nhà chúng tôi luôn là những cuộc trò chuyện.
    Đó là những cuộc thảo luận.
    Và bạn biết khi nào cha mẹ bạn thất vọng.
    Bạn biết khi nào bạn đã chạm vào một điểm nhạy cảm.
    Và điều đó không bao giờ liên quan đến việc, bạn biết đấy, chỉ là mắc sai lầm hoặc, bạn biết đấy.
    Điều đó liên quan đến việc suy nghĩ theo cách cảm thấy áp bức, áp lực bên trong.
    Họ không thích loại suy nghĩ đó trong chúng tôi.
    Họ muốn chúng tôi cảm nhận sức mạnh của chính mình.
    Họ không bao giờ muốn chúng tôi từ bỏ cách chúng tôi nghĩ về chính mình cho phần còn lại của thế giới vì họ có lẽ hiểu rằng họ không thể tin tưởng vào cách mà phần còn lại của thế giới sẽ đối xử với chúng tôi, đúng không?
    Họ biết rằng chúng tôi không thể bị khóa vào những gì thế giới sẽ nói vì thế giới bị ảnh hưởng bởi sự phân biệt chủng tộc.
    Và điều đó, bạn biết đấy, một cậu bé da đen nhỏ bé, nhiều hơn nữa, thậm chí là anh trai tôi, họ có lẽ quan tâm đến anh ấy hơn vì anh ấy sẽ phải đối mặt với điều đó mỗi ngày khi anh ấy cao lớn và thông minh hơn, vì tất cả những người đàn ông trong cuộc sống của chúng tôi đã từng trải qua ai đó cố gắng hạ thấp họ xuống một hai bậc.
    Tôi nghĩ rằng cha mẹ chúng tôi hiểu rằng điều đó đang chờ đợi cả hai chúng tôi, và nó đang chờ đợi anh trai tôi đặc biệt.
    Vì vậy, họ muốn trang bị cho anh ấy đủ sự tự tin để lấp đầy anh ấy tại bàn nơi anh ấy an toàn, để cho anh ấy những công cụ để chôn sâu vào anh ấy một mức độ đồng cảm để anh ấy không trở nên tức giận vì sự tức giận của một cậu bé da đen trẻ tuổi là rất nguy hiểm, bạn biết đấy.
    Vì vậy, có một cách thông minh thực sự để cho phép chúng tôi có những cuộc trò chuyện này, nhưng đồng thời cũng lấp đầy chúng tôi bằng sự đồng cảm để chúng tôi có thể hoạt động trong một xã hội có thành kiến.
    Bị đánh giá thấp.
    Đó là một từ mà tôi đã thấy suốt trong cuốn sách của bạn, và đó là một từ bạn đã đề cập cách đây vài giây.
    Bạn biết rằng bạn đang bước vào một thế giới bị đánh giá thấp, nếu tôi có thể gọi nó như vậy, một thế giới sẽ đánh giá thấp bạn vì chủng tộc và những thứ như vậy.
    Nhưng tôi thấy rất rõ rằng bạn đã giữ vai mình thẳng và tự tin.
    Và tôi đã nói chuyện với Valerie.
    Bạn có biết Valerie không?
    Tất nhiên là bạn biết Valerie.
    Tôi đã làm việc với Valerie trong nhiều thập kỷ.
    Cô ấy là một hình mẫu tinh thần ban đầu trong cuộc đời bạn, Michelle.
    Đúng vậy, cô ấy là.
    Và cô ấy thực sự đã viết cho tôi một bức thư về bạn.
    Cô ấy mô tả rằng cô ấy chưa bao giờ gặp ai trong đời mình có sự rõ ràng như vậy về những gì họ muốn đạt được trong thế giới về mặt xã hội và tác động mà họ muốn có, nhưng lại vô cùng tự tin với những niềm tin mạnh mẽ.
    Và khi tôi nghĩ về việc bạn nhập học Harvard và học luật, có khoảng 30% số người tham dự là phụ nữ, và một tỷ lệ rất nhỏ là phụ nữ da đen.
    Và bạn cũng nhận thức được, một lần nữa, việc bị đánh giá thấp, nhưng một lần nữa, vai thẳng, có vẻ như vậy.
    Điều đó đến từ đâu trong bạn?
    Sống qua sự sai lầm của việc bị đánh giá thấp đó, đúng không?
    Đầu tiên, tôi lớn lên trong một khu phố chủ yếu là người da đen sau khi xảy ra hiện tượng di cư của người da trắng, nơi mọi người đều cho rằng tôi thông minh, đúng không?
    Tôi đã lớn lên là người đứng thứ hai trong lớp ở trường tiểu học.
    Tôi vào một trường trung học hàng đầu.
    Bạn biết đấy, tôi thật may mắn khi lớn lên trong một môi trường đen xác thực, bạn biết đấy, mà chúng tôi thường nói rất nhiều với những sinh viên da đen, liệu họ có nên học tại các trường đại học HBCU hay điều gì sẽ xảy ra khi bạn được kéo ra một môi trường đa dạng nơi mà bạn bị đánh giá thấp từ rất sớm.
    Bạn biết đấy, chúng tôi đã nói về những thông điệp mà bạn bắt đầu tự nói với mình.
    Tôi không có điều đó vì khi chúng tôi còn trẻ, bạn biết đấy, những người thầy, các huấn luyện viên, các giáo viên nhảy múa, đều là những người mà nếu tôi mắc lỗi hoặc nếu họ nghi ngờ tôi, thì đó không phải vì chủng tộc của tôi, mà là vì tôi đã khiến ai đó thất vọng theo một cách nào đó, đúng không?
    Vì vậy, khi tôi vào Princeton, thật may mắn, tôi đã có đủ dữ liệu từ bên trong rằng tôi có thể làm nhiều việc, rằng tôi tốt hơn, thông minh hơn, sắc sảo hơn so với những gì họ đã đánh giá.
    Và sau đó điều đó được xác nhận khi tôi bước vào khuôn viên của Princeton với tư cách là sinh viên đại học, cảm thấy hơi bị áp lực vì đây là một trường Ivy League và tôi không phải là một người thi thử xuất sắc, mặc dù tôi là một sinh viên nổi bật.
    Và tôi không phải là một người thi thử tiêu chuẩn giỏi.
    Tất cả những con số đó đều nói rằng tôi không nên học tốt ở Princeton.
    Vì vậy, tôi vào theo diện ưu tiên hành động, cảm giác như có thể tôi không thuộc về những tháp ngà này và có thể những đứa trẻ đến từ những trường khác thực sự thông minh và tốt hơn tôi rất nhiều.
    Và rồi tôi đã ngồi trong khuôn viên đó và nhìn xung quanh và tôi đã nghĩ, ôi Chúa tôi.
    Thật ra có rất nhiều loại ưu tiên hành động mà tôi chưa bao giờ nói đến.
    Bạn biết đấy, có sự giàu có và di sản.
    Có cả ưu tiên hành động thể thao.
    Có rất nhiều đứa trẻ ở đó và, như tôi đã tìm hiểu, tiếp tục có quyền truy cập vào những chiếc ghế quyền lực này mà không liên quan gì đến khả năng học thuật của chúng.
    Có rất nhiều đứa trẻ thông minh đi học những trường này, nhưng còn rất nhiều đứa trẻ thông minh có bố mẹ đưa chúng vào những trường này.
    Và khi tôi đến khuôn viên và tôi kết thúc học kỳ đầu tiên với toàn điểm A, tôi đã nghĩ, vậy, những gì mà—bạn đang nói gì vậy?
    Ai là bạn?
    Tại sao bạn lại cố gắng làm rối sự suy nghĩ của tôi theo cách này khi các bạn—các bạn thậm chí không làm việc chăm chỉ bằng tôi?
    Nhưng điều đó—mặc dù nó thật là bực bội nhưng nó lại giải phóng vì tôi đã nghĩ, bây giờ tôi hiểu rồi.
    Bạn chỉ đang cố gắng vào đầu tôi.
    Bạn sợ tôi.
    Bạn biết đấy, bạn không muốn tôi cạnh tranh với bạn.
    Và tôi nghĩ rằng chính trong thời kỳ đó, khi vào một trong những trường hàng đầu, tôi đã nói, tôi đã xong.
    Tôi chấm dứt lo lắng về việc liệu tôi có thuộc về đây hay không.
    Bạn biết đấy, đây là một trò lừa đảo.
    Vì vậy, điều đó—tôi nghĩ rằng thực sự tôi đã ra khỏi Princeton chỉ với cảm giác, rawr, bạn biết đấy, để cho tôi tham gia.
    Bạn biết đấy, quên hết mọi thứ này đi.
    Và bây giờ tôi đang cố gắng nói với những đứa trẻ khác điều đó.
    Giống như tôi đang xuống từ đỉnh núi với bảng chân lý và bảo, đừng để những người này lừa bạn.
    Tất cả đều là một trò lừa đảo.
    Trò lừa đảo là gì?
    Rằng bạn không thuộc về đây, rằng họ thông minh hơn, rằng họ làm việc chăm chỉ hơn, rằng họ biết nhiều hơn, rằng họ xứng đáng hơn bạn.
    Điều đó không đúng—đơn giản là không đúng.
    Và vì vậy từ đó trở đi, tôi đã nói, bạn chứng minh rằng tôi không thuộc về đây, bạn biết đấy.
    Tôi sẽ ngồi ở những bàn này, và từ bây giờ tôi sẽ điều hành nó.
    Tại sao tôi phải nghe bạn?
    Tại sao bạn không nghe tôi?
    Tôi nghĩ rằng trải nghiệm đó với tôi thật sự giải phóng theo một cách kỳ lạ.
    Và nhiều trẻ em không có quyền truy cập.
    Chúng bị chặn lại, và có phần như chúng được bảo, đừng nhìn về phía sau bức màn vì bạn không thuộc về đó.
    Và họ muốn chúng tôi nghĩ theo cách đó.
    Tôi đã ngừng nghĩ theo cách đó từ lâu rồi.
    Cuộc hành trình mà cả hai bạn đã trải qua thực sự rất đáng chú ý vì rất nhiều lý do, nhưng cũng đáng chú ý vì những bước ngoặt trên đường đi. Và tôi đã đọc về một cuộc khủng hoảng danh tính mà bạn đã trải qua khi bạn 27, 28 tuổi, Michelle, khi bạn còn là một luật sư.
    Tôi là một luật sư, đúng vậy.
    Tại Sidley ở Austin.
    Đúng rồi.
    Một luật sư doanh nghiệp rất đẹp, được trả lương cao cho phép tôi mua một chiếc Saab đẹp.
    Saab, lái một luật sư.
    Lái một luật sư.
    Công việc thực sự đầu tiên mà tôi có ngay sau khi tốt nghiệp Harvard vì đó là những gì bạn nên làm. Bạn biết đấy, sau khi bạn đi học luật, tại trường tốt nhất, bạn được các công ty hàng đầu ở đất nước tuyển dụng, và họ sẽ đề nghị cho bạn những mức lương trên trời.
    Vì vậy, ở độ tuổi đó, khi tôi bắt đầu với tư cách là một luật sư tập sự năm đầu, tôi đã kiếm được nhiều hơn tổng thu nhập của cha mẹ tôi, điều này có vẻ như là điều không thể từ chối. Bạn biết đấy, nếu bạn có cơ hội làm điều đó, thì trời ạ, tôi sẽ làm việc cho một công ty.
    Nhưng thực sự, đó là những gì tôi đã làm suốt cuộc đời của mình. Tôi chỉ đang đánh dấu vào những ô.
    Bởi vì tôi là một học sinh giỏi và tôi có thể làm được những điều nhất định, đó là những gì tôi đã làm.
    Bạn biết đấy, tôi hiểu rằng có một công thức. Làm một học sinh giỏi. Xuất hiện. Làm việc. Đánh dấu. Có được điều đó. Đạt điểm tốt. Học ở một trường trung học cạnh tranh. Học ở một trường trung học nổi bật. Làm thủ quỹ của lớp. Top của lớp. Đánh dấu. Có được điều đó. Bởi vì tôi có thể làm điều này. Tôi chỉ đang đi qua cuộc sống. Đánh dấu, đánh dấu, đánh dấu.
    Nộp đơn vào trường đại học hàng đầu. Được nhận vào Princeton. Đúng rồi. Tôi đã vào.
    Tốt nghiệp đứng đầu lớp. Học trường luật. Tại sao? Tôi không biết. Thực sự không có suy nghĩ nào về lý do tại sao tôi học luật. Chỉ là, tôi không biết mình sẽ làm gì sau khi tốt nghiệp.
    Không đi học y vì tôi không thích khoa học hay toán. Tôi thích nói. Tôi thích tranh luận. Và vì vậy, tại sao không đi học luật?
    Vì vậy, tôi đã nộp đơn vào Harvard. Được nhận. Bạn đi Harvard. Bạn biết đấy, đó chỉ là quá trình suy nghĩ của tôi. Không có mục đích. Không có, tôi quan tâm đến điều gì? Tôi không biết việc trở thành một luật sư doanh nghiệp có ý nghĩa gì. Tôi chỉ đang đánh dấu các ô cho đến khi tôi trở thành luật sư.
    Và rất nhiều điều đã xảy ra trong năm đó ngoài việc tôi chỉ tham gia vào Sidley và Austin trong khoảng thời gian đó, chúng tôi đã mất cha mình. Ông đã qua đời rất đột ngột. Một trong những người bạn tốt nhất của tôi từ thời đại học, Suzanne, đã qua đời vì ung thư bạch huyết. Và điều đó xảy ra đột ngột. Cô ấy được chẩn đoán vào tháng 12 và qua đời vào tháng 5. Thực sự, đây là lần đầu tiên trong đời tôi, những người mà không ai ngờ sẽ chết, lại qua đời.
    Bạn biết đấy, chúng tôi đã mất ông bà và cụ tổ. Và tôi thực sự đã trải qua một cuộc khủng hoảng hiện sinh khi ngồi trên tầng 47 của văn phòng xinh đẹp của tôi với một thư ký và một chiếc Saab trong garage và nghĩ, tại sao là tôi? Tại sao tôi ở đây thay vì Suzanne? Bởi vì cô ấy, người bạn đó cũng là một người mơ mộng, người không chỉ đang đánh dấu ô. Cô ấy đã học ở Princeton, nhưng chị ấy đã đi du lịch khắp thế giới. Chị ấy không học trường kinh doanh ngay lập tức. Và tôi luôn nghĩ, bạn phải sắp xếp cuộc sống của mình. Bạn phải có một con đường. Và tôi đã nghĩ, cảm ơn Chúa vì cô ấy đã không làm như vậy bởi vì cô ấy không biết mình sẽ chết.
    Nhưng thay vì ngồi trong một tòa nhà văn phòng nào đó, cô ấy đang sống cuộc sống và thử nghiệm những điều mới. Và tôi nhận ra tôi chưa bao giờ làm điều đó cho chính mình. Tất cả những gì tôi làm là theo một kế hoạch. Tôi không cố gắng tìm hiểu mục đích của mình. Và cùng lúc đó, tôi đã gặp Barack Obama. Ông ấy xuất hiện trong đời tôi như một người không theo khuôn mẫu, nhưng là người mà tôi mô tả trong cuốn sách của mình như một người có thể biến động tối thượng.
    Ông ấy không làm gì theo sách vở, nhưng ông ấy rất thông minh và thú vị. Bạn biết đấy, ông ấy không đi học luật ngay lập tức. Ông ấy làm việc như một tổ chức cộng đồng. Ông ấy sống ở nhiều nơi khác nhau trên thế giới. Ông ấy thực sự đang cố gắng khám phá cuộc sống theo cách mà những người trong thế hệ của tôi không cố gắng làm.
    Bạn chỉ biết, tôi đã ở cùng với những người bourgeois da đen, đúng không? Và mọi người đã mua nhà, sắp xếp xe cộ và cố gắng trở thành đối tác tại một công ty. Có một con đường rất hạn chế. Và tôi đã không khám phá bất kỳ điều gì khác ngoài điều đó. Và tôi nghĩ, tôi phải làm điều gì đó nhiều hơn trước khi tôi chấp nhận điều này. Và tôi nghĩ Barack đã giúp tôi có can đảm. Bạn biết đấy, ông ấy là người bên tai tôi nói, tại sao bạn muốn dừng lại ở đây và chấp nhận sự nghiệp này khi có rất nhiều điều bên ngoài mà bạn chưa thử, đúng không? Bạn có thể làm điều này.
    Và tôi đã nói, nhưng tôi đang gánh nợ. Và vào khoảng thời gian đó, chúng tôi biết rằng chúng tôi sẽ ở bên nhau. Chúng tôi biết chúng tôi sẽ đính hôn. Và ông ấy đã nói, chúng ta sẽ tìm ra điều đó. Ông ấy đã nói, đừng chỉ chấp nhận trở thành đối tác tại một công ty luật vì tiền. Bạn biết đấy, bạn cần phải nhìn thế giới theo cách khác. Và chúng ta sẽ cùng nhau tìm ra điều này.
    Vì vậy, tôi đã bắt đầu chuyển hướng. Tôi đã bắt đầu thử những điều khác trong cuộc sống và không bao giờ quay lại. Craig, lần đầu tiên bạn nghe nói rằng em gái nhỏ của bạn đã gặp một người đàn ông tên là Mr. Obama là khi nào?
    Chà, cô ấy đã gọi điện cho tôi và nói, hey, mình đã gặp một người. Mình muốn đưa anh ấy đến. Và mẹ tôi, cha tôi và tôi đang ngồi ở hiên trước của nhà. Và cô ấy lái chiếc Nysop 900 mà bạn đã nghe nhiều. Và anh ấy xuống xe. Và đó là lần đầu tiên chúng tôi gặp anh ấy.
    Và bạn nghĩ gì về anh ấy, thành thật mà nói?
    Thành thật mà nói, tôi đã nghĩ, bạn biết đấy, anh ấy có thể chỉ tồn tại được hai tháng thôi bởi vì anh ấy sẽ làm điều gì đó và rồi tôi sẽ nghĩ, oh, điều đó không thể chấp nhận. Và anh ấy sẽ đi con đường của mình. Và mẹ tôi, tôi nhớ mẹ tôi đã nói, ít nhất thì anh ấy cũng cao. Chúng tôi chỉ đang gặp anh ấy như chúng tôi đã gặp ai đó mà cô ấy đưa đến. Nhưng tôi không phải là người thường xuyên đưa nhiều bạn trai về nhà. Cô ấy cũng không đưa nhiều anh chàng về nhà. Vì vậy, đó là lý do tại sao chúng tôi nghĩ rằng điều này sẽ không kéo dài lâu, bởi vì cô ấy không đưa quá nhiều người về.
    Vâng, nhưng tại sao bạn nghĩ rằng điều này sẽ không kéo dài? Những người không kéo dài, bạn không gặp.
    Nhưng chúng tôi đã nghe về họ.
    Vâng, nhưng bạn chưa bao giờ gặp họ.
    Chà, tôi đã biết em gái mình lâu rồi.
    Đó là một trong những lý do mà Michelle rất nghiêm khắc với đàn ông, bạn biết đấy. Nên cũng giống như, ừm. Tôi không nói là cô ấy khó tính. Tôi đã đưa họ về nhà. Và tôi nghĩ có một bạn trai khác mà bạn đã gặp, mặc dù tôi có rất nhiều bạn trai. Tôi chỉ, bạn biết đấy. Tôi đã gặp hơn hai chàng trai. Ồ, đó là vì chúng tôi học chung với nhau. Đúng không? Đúng. Những chàng trai đó không kéo dài. Nhưng họ không về nhà. Được rồi. Thì, tôi đã gặp họ. Vâng. Tôi đã gặp họ. Nhưng họ không gặp mẹ và bố. Không, họ không gặp mẹ và bố. Nhưng đó là vì chúng tôi không ở Chicago. Ồ, dù sao thì. Vậy điều quan trọng thực sự là kết quả như thế nào, đúng không? Đây là sự kết nối giữa các anh chị em. Giống như, ồ, bạn đã từ chối anh ấy lúc đầu, đúng không? Vâng, vâng. Bởi vì anh ấy, Barack, tôi được chỉ định làm cố vấn của anh ấy. Và điều đó không có nghĩa là tôi là sếp của anh ấy. Nhưng mỗi người, tôi là một cộng sự năm nhất. Nên họ cố gắng kết nối những người năm nhất với những sinh viên thực tập mới để giúp họ quen thuộc và cho họ một số lời khuyên để hướng dẫn họ trong mùa hè. Nên tôi là người hướng dẫn của anh ấy, đúng không? Nên anh ấy đến. Anh ấy đến muộn. Nên tôi nghĩ, được rồi, chàng trai này không nghiêm túc. Vì trong gia đình Robinson, chúng tôi không chấp nhận sự muộn màng. Nhưng trời mưa và anh ấy không có ô. Nên anh ấy hơi ướt. Nên tôi hơi khó chịu. Nhưng anh ấy đứng dậy và anh ấy cao và còn đẹp trai hơn trong hình. Nên tôi nghĩ, ồ, được rồi. Không phải là những gì tôi mong đợi. Nên tôi dẫn anh ấy quanh văn phòng, giúp anh ấy ổn định trong văn phòng của mình, đưa anh ấy đi ăn trưa vào ngày đầu tiên. Và chúng tôi đã nói chuyện hàng giờ trời. Và tôi biết rằng chúng tôi sẽ là bạn tốt. Anh ấy thông minh. Anh ấy hài hước. Có khiếu hài hước tốt. Không quá nghiêm túc với bản thân. Nên chúng tôi đã kết nối ngay từ đầu. Và trong suốt mùa hè, chúng tôi thực sự trở thành bạn tốt. Tôi thậm chí còn cố gắng giới thiệu anh ấy với một số bạn của tôi, các cô gái bạn, nói rằng, có một chàng trai rất dễ thương là cố vấn của tôi. Bởi vì trong tâm trí tôi, không có cách nào mà vài cộng sự da đen ở đó, cả hai đều học Harvard, lại có thể hẹn hò. Trong tâm trí tôi, tôi nghĩ, điều đó sẽ thật là không hợp lý. Điều đó là điều bình thường. Đúng không? Và tôi chỉ kiểu như muốn làm điều gì đó không bình thường. Đúng không? Nên tâm trí tôi đi về hướng khác. Tôi nghĩ, ồ, hãy gặp tất cả những người phụ nữ tuyệt vời, xinh đẹp mà tôi biết. Và sau một vài buổi hẹn, anh ấy nói, tại sao chúng ta không đi ra ngoài? Và tôi nói, không đời nào chúng ta đi ra ngoài. Điều đó sẽ không xảy ra. Chúng ta là bạn bè. Và anh ấy hơi như, ồ, tại sao? Và anh ấy đã lập luận. Tôi nói, tốt, bạn biết đấy, tôi không nghĩ rằng điều đó hợp lý. Và anh ấy nói, ai quan tâm đến nó trông như thế nào? Nên anh ấy đã trình bày trường hợp của mình rất tốt trong vài tuần. Và cuối cùng, tôi đã như, oke, chúng ta sẽ đi hẹn hò một lần. Và sau đó, anh ấy đã lên kế hoạch, sau đó, mọi thứ đã trở nên khác biệt. Đó là một cuộc hẹn dài cả ngày mà anh ấy đã làm mọi thứ có thể. Tôi chắc là tôi đã đón anh ấy vì tôi có chiếc xe đẹp. Và chúng tôi đã đến Viện Nghệ thuật, nơi anh ấy đã cho tôi thấy cách anh ấy nhìn nhận nghệ thuật một cách tinh tế. Và chúng tôi đã ăn trưa tại bảo tàng. Rồi chúng tôi đi bộ từ Viện Nghệ thuật xuống Đại lộ Michigan phía bắc. Chúng tôi đi bộ tay trong tay, nói chuyện từ từ. Và, bạn biết đấy, sau đó chúng tôi đã ăn tối ở trên đỉnh Lake Point Tower, nơi có một view đẹp của thành phố. Và rồi chúng tôi, tôi nghĩ, kết thúc buổi tối bằng cách xem, đi xem Spike Lee’s, làm điều đúng đắn. Nên, ý tôi là, anh ấy đã lên kế hoạch cho, bạn biết đấy, văn hóa, bạn biết đấy, nghệ thuật, bạn biết đấy, một cuộc đi dạo dễ thương. Và từ từ tôi như, ồ, có thể tôi đã nói quá sớm. Bạn biết đấy, có thể có điều gì đó hơn ở đây. Nhưng, vâng, đó là một cách dài để nói rằng tôi đã nói không trong một tháng hay hai tháng. Nhưng vào cuối mùa hè, tôi đã, tôi nghĩ, đó là mùa hè đó. Vào cuối mùa hè, tôi đã giới thiệu anh ấy với gia đình tôi. Hai bạn đều có dòng chảy đó trong câu chuyện của mình khi đánh dấu những tiêu chí. Và cuối cùng, đó là điều mà chúng ta đã nói hôm qua trong chương trình của bạn, nơi mà đôi khi những thành kiến của bạn phải thất bại. Vâng, đúng vậy. Bạn phải cảm nhận được điều đó để hiểu rằng có thể cần một sự thay đổi trong cuộc sống của bạn. Và điều đó cũng giống vậy khi tôi nói về hành trình ban đầu của tôi. Valerie, nhân vật rất thú vị trong cuộc đời bạn. Đây là bức thư, tôi đã tìm thấy nó, mà Valerie đã viết cho tôi. Và cô ấy nói về sự thay đổi mà bạn đã thực hiện từ việc là một luật sư đến việc rời khỏi công ty luật đó và theo đuổi một điều gì khác. Điều gì là điều mà bạn đang theo đuổi trước khi tôi đọc những gì Valerie đã nói với tôi? Tôi không biết gì cả vì tôi không biết gì. Nhưng tôi đã bắt đầu với những gì tôi, tôi đã phải dành một thời gian suy nghĩ, viết nhật ký về những gì tôi quan tâm. Câu hỏi trong nhật ký là gì? Điều gì mang lại cho tôi niềm vui, bạn biết đấy, trong tất cả những thứ mà tôi đang làm trong cuộc sống của mình? Điều gì là điều mà khi tôi có nó trong lịch trình, tôi sẽ bật dậy khỏi giường, điều đó sẽ thay đổi cảm giác của tôi về ngày hôm đó? Và nó luôn liên quan đến việc hướng dẫn. Bởi vì trong khi tôi đang làm tất cả những thứ này trong lĩnh vực luật pháp, trong nền giáo dục của mình, tôi luôn tìm cách giúp đỡ những đứa trẻ nhỏ hơn hiểu cách để đến đây. Nên chính phần hướng dẫn mà Craig đã đề cập. Bạn biết đấy, chúng tôi chưa bao giờ nói về điều đó khi chúng tôi nghĩ về cha mẹ của chúng tôi. Điều đó mang lại cho tôi niềm vui tuyệt đối, bạn biết đấy. Nên tôi bắt đầu thực sự cố gắng lắng nghe phần lợi ích cá nhân của mình, bạn biết đấy. Giống như, điều gì làm tôi hạnh phúc? Tôi chưa bao giờ tự hỏi điều đó. Tôi luôn làm những gì tôi nghĩ là tôi nên làm. Và kiếm tiền là một trong những điều mà bạn phải làm nếu bạn là bất cứ ai có cơ hội nhận một nền giáo dục Ivy League. Đó là điều mà họ đã nói nhiều nhất. Đó là điều duy nhất họ đã cho bạn thấy. Bạn biết đấy, không có khóa học hoặc chuyên ngành nào về việc giúp đỡ mọi người. Bạn biết đấy, không có khóa học nào về làm việc với trẻ nhỏ. Bạn biết đấy, không có chuyên ngành cho việc đó, đặc biệt là ở Ivy League. Nên tôi biết, tôi không biết gì về thế giới phi lợi nhuận. Tôi không biết gì về các tổ chức phi chính phủ.
    Chà, Valerie đã nói, cô ấy nói ngược lại.
    Tôi đùa thôi, tôi đùa thôi, tôi đùa thôi.
    Ngày tôi gặp Michelle Obama đã thay đổi cuộc đời tôi mãi mãi.
    Tôi sẽ không bao giờ quên khoảnh khắc cô ấy bước vào văn phòng của tôi để phỏng vấn, mặc đồ đen từ đầu đến chân, tóc được buộc gọn gàng.
    Tôi bị ấn tượng bởi sự tự tin mà cô ấy tỏa ra.
    Cô ấy nhìn thẳng vào mắt tôi khi bắt tay.
    Cô ấy tự tin và điềm đạm đến nỗi thật khó tin rằng cô ấy chỉ mới 27 tuổi.
    Michelle đã kể cho tôi về cuộc sống của cô ấy, cách cô ấy lớn lên ở phía Nam Chicago, và tình yêu, sự hỗ trợ mà cha mẹ đã dành cho cô và anh trai, Craig.
    Tôi hỏi cô ấy tại sao lại chọn phục vụ cộng đồng thay vì con đường hấp dẫn hơn nhiều là trở thành đối tác trong một công ty luật.
    Và cô ấy nói rằng cô vừa mất bố và người bạn thân trong vòng một năm.
    Cái chết của họ là một lời nhắc nhở đau đớn về sự hữu hạn của cuộc sống và tầm quan trọng của việc sống có mục đích.
    Và cô ấy biết rằng khả năng của mình có thể giúp cô tạo ra sự khác biệt trong cuộc sống của người khác, phục vụ và đền đáp cho thành phố nơi cô đã lớn lên.
    Tôi thật sự ngưỡng mộ sự rõ ràng về mục đích, quyết tâm và sự dễ bị tổn thương của cô ấy đến nỗi tôi đã đề nghị cô ấy một công việc ngay lập tức.
    Đó gần như là một quyết định đúng đắn, đúng không?
    Đúng vậy, nó cũng tương tự.
    Nó như kiểu, ôi, Valerie đã nói gì vậy?
    Và lúc đó trong cuộc sống của bạn, bạn biết đấy, vào đầu 30 tuổi, chuyện gì đang xảy ra với ông Obama?
    À, vào thời điểm đó, ông ấy đã viết sách vì ông là tổng biên tập của Harvard Law Review.
    Tổng biên tập của Harvard Law Review là sinh viên hàng đầu tại trường luật hàng đầu thế giới.
    Và ông ấy là sinh viên da màu đầu tiên được bầu làm tổng biên tập của Harvard Law Review.
    Điều đó đã thu hút rất nhiều sự chú ý về ông ấy.
    Chúng tôi đang hẹn hò vào thời điểm đó.
    Ông ấy đã có hợp đồng xuất bản để viết cuốn sách, “Giấc mơ từ cha tôi”, mà tôi nghĩ rằng, ai lại viết sách ở độ tuổi của bạn, phải không?
    Nhưng ông ấy nói, ừ, tôi có thể kể cho họ một câu chuyện.
    Và, bạn biết đấy, đó cũng là tiền, phải không?
    Ông ấy nhận được tiền ứng trước và chúng tôi đã đính hôn.
    Vì vậy, ông ấy đã làm việc trên dự án đó, nhưng vẫn đang cố gắng tìm ra mình sẽ làm gì.
    Khi bạn là tổng biên tập của Harvard Law Review, cơ hội trong lĩnh vực luật gần như mở ra cho bạn.
    Con đường thông thường là bạn sẽ làm thư ký cho một thẩm phán cấp cao trong một hoặc hai năm, sau đó bạn sẽ làm thư ký cho Tòa án Tối cao.
    Sau đó, bạn sẽ làm công việc kháng cáo, bạn biết đấy, bạn sẽ nhận được rất nhiều lời mời từ các công ty luật, bạn rất được săn đón, hoặc bạn có thể làm công tác chính sách hoặc bất cứ điều gì khác.
    Đó là con đường thông thường.
    Tôi đã hỏi, vậy bạn có định làm thư ký không?
    Ông ấy đã trả lời, tại sao tôi lại phải làm thư ký?
    Vì vậy, ông ấy không làm việc tại bất kỳ công ty lớn nào.
    Ông ấy đã đến một công ty nhỏ làm công việc phục vụ lợi ích công cộng.
    Vì vậy, ông ấy không kiếm được nhiều tiền.
    Ông ấy đang làm những việc tôi đang làm.
    Và ông ấy đi theo hướng ngược lại với tất cả những thứ đáng lẽ phải giúp chúng tôi kiếm tiền.
    Nhưng ông ấy nói, tiền không phải là lý do tôi làm việc này.
    Tôi đang cố gắng tìm cách tốt nhất để sử dụng kỹ năng của mình để ảnh hưởng đến nhiều người nhất.
    Vì vậy, ông ấy đã làm 50 triệu công việc.
    Chúng tôi đã phải gom góp tiền để trả nợ vay sinh viên, mà số tiền còn nhiều hơn cả khoản vay mua nhà của chúng tôi.
    Chúng tôi đã mua một căn hộ.
    Chúng tôi đang trên đường xây dựng cuộc sống của mình bên nhau, nhưng chúng tôi đang mắc khoản nợ nặng.
    Vì vậy, trong khi cả hai chúng tôi đều theo đuổi tình yêu sâu sắc dành cho cộng đồng, thu nhập của chúng tôi đang giảm đi so với nơi nó đáng lẽ phải hướng tới.
    Nhưng chúng tôi đã ở bên nhau trong điều này.
    Bạn biết đấy, chính trị chưa thực sự gia nhập cuộc trò chuyện.
    Nhưng chúng tôi vẫn đang đi trên những con đường song song này, cố gắng tìm ra cách nào để tận dụng tất cả những kỹ năng và năng lượng này để giúp đỡ mọi người.
    Tôi đã làm việc trong thành phố.
    Ông ấy làm việc ở khắp mọi nơi và viết sách.
    Và chúng tôi chỉ đang, bạn biết đấy, chúng tôi đang tiến lên phía trước.
    Công việc đưa tôi đi khắp thế giới và tôi đi công tác khoảng 50 tuần một năm.
    Và cho đến gần đây, một trong những thách thức mà tôi tiếp tục đối mặt là việc giữ kết nối ngay khi tôi đặt chân đến một nơi mới.
    Thực tế là tôi không có thời gian để chờ đợi và xử lý thẻ SIM khi tôi đang di chuyển.
    Vì vậy, một vài tháng trước, tôi đã thử một cái gọi là Airlo lần đầu tiên và họ hiện đang là nhà tài trợ cho tập phát sóng hôm nay.
    Airlo là cửa hàng e-SIM đầu tiên trên thế giới.
    Nó hoàn toàn kỹ thuật số.
    Không cần thẻ SIM nào cả.
    Và bạn có thể giữ số điện thoại mà bạn đang sử dụng hiện tại.
    Điều đó có nghĩa là bạn có thể nhận được dữ liệu đáng tin cậy và truy cập ngay vào hơn 200 địa điểm cùng với thẻ e-SIM kỹ thuật số chỉ bằng một cú nhấp chuột.
    Khi bạn mua e-SIM Airlo đầu tiên, bạn có thể được giảm 3 đô la bằng cách sử dụng mã DOAC3.
    Đối với tôi, việc có thể đáp xuống, bật điện thoại lên và quay lại công việc thực sự thay đổi cuộc chơi.
    Và Airlo làm điều này trở nên khả thi.
    Cài đặt Airlo hôm nay để được giảm 3 đô la khi mua e-SIM đầu tiên của bạn với mã DOAC3 khi thanh toán.
    Đó là D-O-A-C-3 khi bạn tải ứng dụng Airlo.
    Tôi nghĩ tôi cần lời khuyên từ cả hai bạn về tình yêu và lãng mạn cũng như các mối quan hệ, vì bạn biết đấy, tôi hiện đang ở đầu 30 tuổi.
    Và khi tôi nhìn vào những câu chuyện tình yêu của cả hai bạn ở độ tuổi 30, nó không phải là một đường thẳng.
    Ôi không.
    Ôi không.
    Nó không phải là một đường thẳng, đúng là như vậy.
    Michelle, bạn đã nói về việc đi tư vấn hôn nhân với Brock.
    Với một người như tôi, 32 tuổi, đang trong một mối quan hệ, đang tích cực theo đuổi sự nghiệp vì tôi cảm thấy mình phải xây dựng và xây dựng và duy trì gia đình cho tương lai, bạn sẽ cho tôi lời khuyên nào về việc điều hướng tình yêu trong giai đoạn sự nghiệp mà tôi đang đi?
    Đối với ai đó với tính cách của bạn, lời khuyên của tôi là, bạn biết đấy,
    Tôi thấy bạn đang nghĩ rằng, nếu tôi đã sắp xếp mọi thứ và có con đường của mình ở đây trong khi bạn có con đường của riêng bạn ở đó, bạn biết đấy, chỉ cần chúng tôi cùng nhau tiến bước, chúng tôi sẽ ổn thôi.
    Và nói chung, điều đó có thể hoạt động vì bạn có thể là hai thực thể độc lập ở ngoài kia, với, bạn biết đấy, cơ bản là chiến đấu với những con rồng của chính mình, đúng không? Bạn sẽ đưa ra những lựa chọn về việc bạn sẽ chiến đấu với con rồng nào và như thế nào, bạn biết đấy, muốn sử dụng bao nhiêu giáp, đúng không? Bạn là những người độc lập và cảm giác đó thật tốt cho đến khi dự án chung đầu tiên và quan trọng nhất của bạn xảy ra, mà bạn đã nói với tôi rằng bạn muốn, bạn có con, đúng không? Đó thường là lúc vấn đề xảy ra vì khi bạn mang sự sống vào thế giới, đó là, đó là dự án mà bạn không thể tự làm một mình. Bạn không thể, bạn không thể đi trên một con đường và đối tác của bạn trên một con đường khác bởi vì việc nuôi dưỡng những đứa trẻ đó và làm cho chúng trọn vẹn như bạn mong muốn ít liên quan đến con rồng mà bạn đang chiến đấu hơn là cách mà bạn hợp tác và tham gia và đưa ra những lựa chọn cùng nhau về những sinh linh nhỏ bé mà bạn sẽ yêu thương hơn bất kỳ điều gì trên thế giới. Và bạn không muốn làm sai dự án đó, nhưng bạn phải làm việc với đối tác của mình. Bạn phải giao tiếp. Và đó là khi mọi thứ trở nên thực sự khó khăn. Đó có phải là lúc khó khăn với bạn không? Ừ. Ừ. Bởi vì, bạn biết đấy, khi bạn là những người độc lập trong thế giới, bạn biết đấy, anh ấy đi đây đi đó, tôi đi đây đi đó, bạn biết đấy, có thể tôi không gặp anh ấy trong suốt tuần. Và sau đó vào thứ Bảy, ôi, thật tuyệt. Tôi yêu bạn. Tôi đã nhớ bạn. Điều này thật tuyệt vời. Hãy nói cho tôi về cuộc sống của bạn. Và, ôi, điều này thật hấp dẫn. Và tất cả mọi thứ. Đúng không. Và cảm giác đó, và bạn đang di chuyển và, bạn biết đấy, bạn cũng thấy ổn khi có một khoảng thời gian nghỉ ngơi. Nó giống như, hãy để tôi nhớ bạn một chút. Vì vậy, tôi không quan tâm rằng bạn đang đi du lịch hoặc rằng bạn đang ở khắp nơi. Nhưng ngay khi có một em bé nhỏ đang đánh thức ai đó và nếu có một người đang mang gánh nặng đó, bạn biết đấy, nếu giấc mơ của một người dừng lại vì họ phải gánh chịu phần lớn mọi thứ và bạn vẫn đến phòng tập thể dục và vẫn đang chém những con rồng của bạn với cùng một tốc độ trong khi bạn chưa nhìn sang đối tác của bạn người đang có thể bị kẹt ở nhà vì cô ấy đang cho con bú hoặc cô ấy đã đưa ra một loạt những lựa chọn để làm cho sinh linh nhỏ bé này tồn tại. Và các bạn chưa có cuộc trò chuyện nào về điều đó và về những gì mà sự cân bằng đó trông như thế nào vì bạn chỉ đang chém con rồng của bạn với cùng một tốc độ. Ôi, sẽ có, ôi sẽ có vấn đề. Bạn biết đấy, sẽ có sự oán hận. Sẽ có sự mệt mỏi. Sẽ có sự đo lường và đếm và tất cả mọi thứ. Vì vậy, tôi nghĩ thật quan trọng để giao tiếp ngay bây giờ để bắt đầu làm việc nhằm đảm bảo rằng bạn đang định hình một cuộc sống chung của mình, rằng bạn đang cùng nhau quyết định bây giờ những con rồng nào sẽ bị chém và ai sẽ làm gì và khi nào, bạn biết đấy. Và điều đó cảm thấy như thế nào, bạn biết đấy, bạn có đang làm việc suốt thời gian không? Bạn có đang đi du lịch suốt thời gian trên đường không? Cô ấy có đi cùng bạn không? Cô ấy cảm thấy thế nào về điều đó? Bạn đã có cuộc trò chuyện đó chưa? Không, không, chúng tôi đã không. Bạn chưa có cuộc trò chuyện đó? Không, bởi vì tôi không biết rằng đó là điều mà bạn phải lo lắng về, bởi vì khi bạn đang ở giữa nó, khi bạn đang ở giữa việc theo đuổi những hành trình độc lập của riêng bạn, nó thật tuyệt, đúng không? Đúng vậy. Giống như tôi là người độc lập. Anh ấy là người độc lập. Chúng tôi hòa hợp. Và đột nhiên, có người bị đánh bật khỏi chân họ, bạn biết đấy. Bạn biết đấy, có người đang đưa ra một loạt những hi sinh khác mà không được thương lượng, không được thương lượng. Vì trẻ em. Vì trẻ em. Vì cuộc sống. Bạn đã gặp phải một số khó khăn trong thai kỳ. Vâng. Và tôi đã nói chuyện với nhiều phụ nữ trong chương trình này, những người đã trải qua những khó khăn tương tự trong thai kỳ. Và đó là một điều mà tôi, thật sự, là một cuộc trò chuyện lớn trong cuộc sống của tôi hiện tại, nhưng cũng chỉ là một số bạn bè của tôi trong cuộc sống của tôi về việc cố gắng mang thai. Và hành trình IVF, mà bạn đã tham gia. Những người phụ nữ đang gặp khó khăn cần hiểu điều gì? Và bạn cảm thấy thế nào khi bạn đang cân nhắc hành trình IVF và khi bạn bắt đầu gặp khó khăn trong việc thụ thai mà không có IVF? Đó là điều, bạn biết đấy, bởi vì chúng ta không nói về cơ thể của chúng ta và sức khỏe của phụ nữ. Và không có nhiều cuộc trò chuyện về hôn nhân, hay thai kỳ, hay bất kỳ điều gì trong số này. Cha mẹ của chúng ta không nói về điều đó. Cha mẹ của họ trước đây không nói về điều đó. Đúng không? Vì vậy, bạn hình dung cuộc sống của mình như đang đánh dấu các ô. Tôi đang chờ đợi. Tôi đã trì hoãn việc có con. Tôi đã tìm thấy tình yêu của cuộc đời mình. Và bây giờ tôi sẽ mang thai. Và không ai cho bạn biết rằng thực sự có một chiếc đồng hồ sinh học. Điều đó không sai. Bạn biết đấy, chúng tôi có những đối tác trong podcast, Tiến sĩ Sharon Malone, người đã viết một cuốn sách, Grown Woman Talk, nơi cô ấy đang nói. Cô ấy như đang vén màn các câu hỏi về sức khỏe phụ nữ. Và trong một cuộc trò chuyện với cô ấy, cô đã nhắc nhở chúng tôi rằng phụ nữ, chúng ta được sinh ra với một tập hợp trứng hữu hạn. Và chúng ta không có thêm nữa. Và mỗi tháng chúng ta đang mất chúng. Và vì vậy có một khoảng thời gian, thường thì, và nó khác nhau cho mọi người, thường là trong độ tuổi 30 của bạn, nơi bạn đi từ khả năng sinh sản sang không còn. Và giống như ngã xuống từ vách đá. Và tôi tự hỏi, tại sao không ai nói với tôi điều này? Tôi biết. Tại sao mọi người không nói về điều này? Vì vậy, vào thời điểm chúng tôi bắt đầu thực sự cố gắng, điều đó hoàn toàn phù hợp với sự nghiệp của chúng tôi và trưởng thành và có tất cả mọi thứ được sắp xếp, đúng không? Bởi vì đó là những gì chúng tôi đang cố gắng để mọi thứ được sắp xếp. Khác với cha mẹ của chúng tôi, những người mà, bạn biết đấy, đã có chúng tôi. Chúng tôi sống trong một căn hộ rất nhỏ. Bạn biết đấy, một nguồn thu nhập. Thế hệ của chúng tôi, chúng tôi lo lắng về việc, tôi muốn mọi thứ được sắp xếp. Tôi đảm bảo rằng bạn có mọi thứ được sắp xếp hơn nhiều so với bất kỳ cha mẹ nào của chúng tôi trước khi họ bắt đầu có con. Nhưng chúng tôi đang đợi mọi thứ hoàn hảo, không có ma sát. Chúng tôi không muốn có bất kỳ sự ma sát nào, đúng không? Và trong khi chúng tôi đang chờ đợi cuộc sống của mình hoàn hảo, chiếc đồng hồ sinh học đó đang chạy. Vì vậy, bạn bắt đầu cố gắng và không có kết quả.
    Đó là lúc bạn đến gặp bác sĩ, và họ nói với bạn, ôi, bạn đang gần hết trứng rồi. Điều này là bình thường. Ý tôi là, bạn sẽ gặp khó khăn trong việc mang thai. Vậy nên hãy thử một chút, rồi bây giờ là lúc để thực hiện phương pháp thụ tinh trong ống nghiệm (IVF), nếu bạn có khả năng chi trả, mà bảo hiểm thì không chi trả vào thời điểm đó. Bạn biết đấy, thật sự thì đó là một cú sốc đối với hệ thống. Và là những người thích học hỏi và kiến thức, bạn thực sự cảm thấy bị lừa dối, bạn biết đấy, tại sao điều này lại là một bí mật như vậy? Đó là lý do tại sao tôi nói về nó một cách công khai, và tôi nói về các trường hợp sảy thai. Bởi vì điều khác mà tôi học được là, như, phần lớn các trường hợp mang thai, một tỷ lệ tốt trong số đó kết thúc bằng việc sảy thai. Rằng mọi người đã trải qua sảy thai trong nhiều năm, nhưng không nói về nó. Vì vậy, khi điều đó xảy ra với bạn, một người mà từng nghĩ rằng cuộc sống sẽ như thế nào, và bạn đã thực hiện tất cả các điều đúng đắn, nhưng mọi thứ lại không diễn ra như mong đợi và biết rằng điều đó sẽ xảy ra mà không ai nói với bạn để bạn có thể chuẩn bị cho điều đó, nó thực sự là một cú sốc. Và rồi là một người phụ nữ, bạn đi ngang qua, mang theo cú sốc như thể đó là lỗi của bạn, bạn biết đấy, và vì vậy bạn mang theo gánh nặng đó. Và điều đó có thể trở thành điểm áp lực đầu tiên trong một cuộc hôn nhân, bởi vì về mặt tình cảm, bạn có một người phụ nữ đang mang tất cả điều này, cảm thấy như một thất bại, cảm thấy không có ai để nói chuyện, hormone của cô ấy thì lên xuống, thực sự, đúng không? Có lẽ đang đối phó với trầm cảm và có thể một chút trầm cảm sau sinh, vẫn làm việc, vẫn chiến đấu với những khó khăn, vẫn trên con đường, nhưng cô ấy tự mình gánh vác tất cả. Và rồi nếu bạn thực hiện IVF, phần lớn công việc, những mũi tiêm, chúng ta là đĩa petri trong quá trình IVF. Bạn đến, bạn xuất hiện trong một cốc, và ôi, yay, thật tốt cho bạn, đúng không? Và bạn cũng hơi tức giận về điều đó, bởi vì phụ nữ phải tiêm thuốc mỗi tuần, và bạn phải đi lui đi tới. Giữa việc có công việc của bạn, công việc đầy quyền lực, và giữ mọi thứ cùng nhau, bạn ở phòng khám bác sĩ mỗi tháng cố gắng đếm trứng của mình và hy vọng rằng bạn đang sản xuất trứng, rồi bạn phải trải qua thủ tục. Và rồi bạn phải mang thai chín tháng trong khi bạn đời của bạn đang đến phòng gym và giữ dáng, và, bạn biết đấy, tất cả những điều đó, bạn biết không? Vì vậy, đây là cách dài giải thích rằng có rất nhiều lý do tự nhiên khiến hôn nhân, vô sinh, cố gắng có con trở nên khó khăn. Giống như, tôi cố gắng nói với các cặp đôi, dĩ nhiên là khó. Chỉ cần lắng nghe những gì tôi đã nói, đúng không? Như là, nếu bạn đang gặp vấn đề trong cuộc hôn nhân của mình, không phải lỗi của bạn. Đó là quá trình hôn nhân. Tất cả đều khó khăn. Bởi vì bạn biết điều gì xảy ra khi mọi thứ diễn ra suôn sẻ? Bạn biết bạn có gì không? Trẻ em. Những đứa trẻ nhỏ với cảm nhận riêng của chúng về mọi thứ. Chúng làm bạn rắc rối. Bạn yêu chúng một cách sâu sắc, nhưng chúng rất phiền phức, và chúng đòi hỏi, và chúng có những ý muốn riêng, và bây giờ chúng đã ở trong thế giới của bạn, trong mối quan hệ của bạn. Chúng được tính vào mọi thứ. Vì vậy ngay cả khi mọi thứ diễn ra đúng cách và bạn có 3,2 đứa trẻ và bạn đã làm mọi thứ đúng, thì vẫn sẽ khó khăn vì bây giờ bạn đang phát triển một cuộc sống, đúng không? Vì vậy, tôi nói về những điều này vì tôi nghĩ rằng mọi người từ bỏ quá nhanh trong hôn nhân, đúng không? Bởi vì có rất nhiều ma sát được đưa vào phương trình. Và nếu bạn không nhận được sự giúp đỡ khi nói về nó, đi đến liệu pháp, chỉ đơn giản là hiểu cách mọi thứ đang thay đổi và làm thế nào để bạn liên tục thương thuyết lại mối quan hệ của mình với bạn đời, tôi chỉ thấy mọi người từ bỏ bởi vì họ nhìn tôi và Barack và nói, hashtag couple goals, bạn biết không? Và tôi nói, thật khó. Đó cũng khó khăn với chúng tôi. Nhưng tôi sẽ không đổi chác điều đó, bạn biết không? Anh ấy, như các bạn trẻ nói, là người của tôi. Có phải có khoảnh khắc nào mà bạn nghĩ? Bạn biết đấy, có những khoảnh khắc mà tôi nghĩ, đúng không? Nhưng điều đó có thực không? Không. Không. Không. Thật sự không có một khoảnh khắc nào hoàn toàn. Có những khoảnh khắc khi tôi cảm thấy oán hận. Có những khoảnh khắc khi tôi tức giận. Có những khoảnh khắc khi tôi không cảm thấy như mình nhận được đủ sự chú ý. Nhưng giống như, bạn không cảm thấy điều đó trong mối quan hệ của bạn phải không? Có. Bạn biết không? Có. Vì vậy, đó chỉ là tôi hiểu rằng, vâng, tôi đã tức giận, nhưng tôi đã quên ngay cả lý do tại sao tôi tức giận, đúng không? Điều đó không sao cả. Giống như, tôi có thật sự giận dữ đến vậy không? Ôi, tôi đã nói vậy sao? Tôi xin lỗi. Tôi không thực sự có ý đó. Vì vậy, không, cuối cùng, bạn biết không, không, chúng tôi, bạn biết đấy, và vẻ đẹp trong mối quan hệ của tôi và chồng tôi là cả hai chúng tôi chưa bao giờ thực sự có ý định từ bỏ nó bởi vì đó không phải là con người của chúng tôi. Và tôi biết điều đó về anh ấy. Anh ấy biết điều đó về tôi, bạn biết không? Vì vậy, không. Cả hai cuộc đời của bạn thay đổi do một quyết định mà cựu Tổng thống Barack Obama quyết định thực hiện, đó là ra tranh cử. Và điều đó có ảnh hưởng sâu sắc đến cả hai cuộc đời của bạn vì đó là công việc quyền lực nhất trên thế giới. Bạn sẽ trở thành gia đình nổi tiếng nhất thế giới. Khi anh ấy nói rằng anh ấy sẽ làm điều đó, bạn có tin rằng anh ấy có khả năng làm điều đó không? Vâng, đó là vấn đề. Giống như, bạn biết đấy, tôi đã biết trong trái tim mình, tôi biết rằng anh ấy sẽ trở thành một tổng thống tuyệt vời. Và như tôi đã viết trong, trong ánh sáng, sự thật là, phản ứng ban đầu của tôi là, ôi không, ôi trời ơi, đừng làm điều này. Điều đó liên quan đến việc có tầm nhìn xa để biết điều này sẽ ảnh hưởng đến cuộc sống của chúng tôi như thế nào. Ý tôi là, tôi đã dự đoán rằng nếu anh ấy thắng, mà tôi nghĩ rằng anh ấy có thể và nên, anh ấy sẽ là người mà tôi muốn làm tổng thống. Tất cả đều vì điều này sẽ, bạn biết đấy, con cái chúng tôi còn nhỏ, chúng tôi sẽ phải chuyển nhà. Làm thế nào để nuôi dạy con cái trong Nhà Trắng? Nó nguy hiểm. Đây là Tổng thống da màu đầu tiên có khả năng. Chúng tôi biết sẽ có những đe dọa đến tính mạng. Còn tất cả những điều khác, chúng tôi sẽ xoay xở thế nào? Bởi vì ở Nhà Trắng rất đắt đỏ. Nhiều người không biết điều đó. Tôi mean, nhiều thứ không được chi trả. Bạn phải trả tiền cho mọi thứ mà bạn ăn.
    Bạn biết đấy, bạn không phải trả tiền cho chỗ ở và nhân viên ở đó, mà cho mọi thứ, thậm chí cả việc đi lại. Nếu bạn không đi du lịch cùng tổng thống, nếu con bạn đi trên một ngôi sao sáng, tức là máy bay của đệ nhất phu nhân, chúng tôi đã phải trả tiền cho việc đi lại của họ để có mặt trên máy bay. Đó là một khoản chi phí lớn. Và bạn hoạt động trong hai năm mà không kiếm được thu nhập. Vì vậy, tất cả những điều đó đều hiện hữu trong tâm trí tôi. Làm thế nào chúng tôi quản lý điều này? Nỗi lo của tôi đến từ thực tế là tôi nghĩ rằng ông ấy có thể chiến thắng. Bạn biết đấy, có thể ở một chỗ sâu trong tâm trí mình, tôi hy vọng rằng có thể ông ấy sẽ không, bạn biết đấy, rằng đây sẽ là điều cuối cùng ông ấy làm. Nhưng tôi biết ông ấy có khả năng làm điều này. Một sự thay đổi này đã biến đổi cách mà đội ngũ của tôi và tôi di chuyển, tập luyện và suy nghĩ về cơ thể của chúng tôi. Khi bác sĩ Daniel Lieberman xuất hiện trên chương trình Diary of a CEO, ông đã giải thích cách những đôi giày hiện đại, với sự đệm và hỗ trợ của chúng, khiến chân chúng ta yếu đi và kém khả năng thực hiện những gì tự nhiên đã mong đợi. Chúng ta đã mất đi sức mạnh và khả năng tự nhiên ở bàn chân, và điều này dẫn đến các vấn đề như đau lưng và đau đầu gối. Tôi đã mua một đôi giày Vivo Barefoot, nên tôi đã cho Daniel Lieberman xem, và ông nói rằng đó chính là loại giày sẽ giúp tôi phục hồi chuyển động tự nhiên của bàn chân và xây dựng lại sức mạnh của mình. Nhưng tôi nghĩ rằng tôi đã bị viêm gân chân (plantar fasciitis), khi mà đột nhiên bàn chân tôi bắt đầu đau mọi lúc. Và sau đó, tôi đã quyết định bắt đầu tăng cường sức mạnh cho bàn chân của mình bằng cách sử dụng Vivo Barefoots. Nghiên cứu từ Đại học Liverpool đã chứng minh điều này. Họ cho thấy việc mang giày Vivo Barefoot trong sáu tháng có thể tăng sức mạnh bàn chân lên đến 60%. Hãy truy cập VivoBarefoot.com/slashDOAC và sử dụng mã DIARY20 từ nhà tài trợ của tôi để được giảm giá 20%. Một cơ thể khỏe mạnh bắt đầu từ đôi chân khỏe mạnh. Điều này chưa từng được thực hiện trước đây. Một bản tin được điều hành bởi 100 CEO hàng đầu thế giới. Mọi người thường hỏi tôi, họ hỏi, có thể bạn chỉ dẫn cho tôi không? Bạn có thể giúp tôi tìm một người cố vấn không? Làm thế nào để tôi tìm một người cố vấn? Vậy đây là điều chúng ta sẽ làm. Bạn sẽ gửi cho tôi một câu hỏi. Và câu hỏi phổ biến nhất bạn gửi cho tôi, tôi sẽ gửi tin nhắn tới 100 CEO, một số trong số họ là những CEO hàng đầu thế giới điều hành các công ty trị giá 100 tỷ đô la. Và sau đó, tôi sẽ hồi âm cho bạn qua email với cách họ đã trả lời câu hỏi đó. Bạn có thể hỏi, làm thế nào để giữ một mối quan hệ khi bạn đang xây dựng một startup? Điều gì là quan trọng nhất nếu tôi có một ý tưởng nhưng không biết bắt đầu từ đâu? Chúng tôi sẽ gửi email cho các CEO. Họ sẽ gửi email trả lời. Chúng tôi sẽ chọn ra năm đến sáu câu trả lời tốt nhất. Chúng tôi sẽ gửi email cho bạn. Tôi đã cảm thấy lo lắng vì nghĩ rằng marketing có thể không khớp với thực tế. Nhưng sau đó tôi đã thấy những gì các nhà sáng lập trả lời và sự sẵn lòng của họ để phản hồi. Tôi nghĩ, thực ra, điều này thật tốt. Và tất cả những gì bạn phải làm là đăng ký hoàn toàn miễn phí. Bạn có hỏi về bất kỳ cam kết hay lời hứa nào nếu ông ấy chiến thắng không? Tôi, bạn biết đó, tôi đã không suy nghĩ thật kỹ. Tôi đã nói với ông ấy rằng ông nhất định phải bỏ thuốc lá vì ông vẫn đang đùa giỡn với việc hút thuốc. Ông vẫn đang làm và không làm. Và chúng tôi cần có đủ một khoản tiết kiệm để, bạn biết đấy, chúng tôi có thể không rơi vào tình cảnh tài chính kiệt quệ vào cuối việc này. Và, bạn biết đấy, tôi nghĩ rằng điều đó là đủ, đúng không? Bởi vì chúng tôi không thực sự, chúng tôi chỉ mới bắt đầu đưa ra quyết định trong khi bù đắp cho thu nhập mà chúng tôi đã mất, thực hiện các bước có chủ đích của chúng tôi. Vì vậy, tôi đã nghĩ rằng đó là điều kiện tiên quyết. Nhưng rồi ông ấy được chọn để phát biểu tại Đại hội Toàn quốc của Đảng Dân chủ. Và ông ấy đã nổi bật. Và do đó, và có thể tôi đang nói không đúng thứ tự, Những Giấc Mơ cho Cha Tôi đã trở lại danh sách sách bán chạy. Ông ấy đã viết Cuốn Sách Can Đảm của Hy Vọng, bạn biết đấy, vì vậy có tất cả những thu nhập này đang được tạo ra từ doanh số bán sách của ông ấy. Và ông ấy nhìn tôi như thể, tôi nghĩ chúng ta ổn cả. Và tôi nghĩ, thật đáng tiếc. Vì vậy, tôi không biết đủ để biết điều gì cần yêu cầu. Ý tôi là, chúng tôi đang bay trong bóng tối. Tôi không biết hành trình đó sẽ ra sao và những gì tôi cần đàm phán cho bản thân mình. Và đó là một chút vấn đề. Thật là vấn đề khi không biết điều tôi cần. Bạn nên nói gì? Ồ, tôi nên nói rằng tôi cần đội ngũ của ông ấy thực sự, thực sự đánh giá rằng ông có một gia đình. Bạn biết đấy, tôi không nên chỉ nói, này, đây là những gì cần làm để hoàn thành việc này. Ý tôi là, đó gần như giống như những nhà tư vấn ngồi xung quanh. Họ như kiểu đó là cách mọi thứ phải như vậy. Và hãy nhớ rằng, di sản của chức vụ tổng thống không công nhận các gia đình. Nó không được thiết kế như vậy, bạn biết đấy. Bạn vào đó và mọi thứ xoay quanh người tư lệnh, người luôn là đàn ông. Và cả hệ thống đó thực sự không tính đến rằng có một người vợ và trẻ em cùng với những nhu cầu và yêu cầu của họ. Vì vậy, tôi đã phải chiến đấu cho rất nhiều thứ một mình. Nếu tôi biết những điều này, và có thể Laura Bush biết nhiều hơn tôi vì gia đình Bush đã từng ở Nhà Trắng. Có thể, bạn biết đấy, tôi nghĩ về có thể có một thế giới nào đó mà mọi người biết nhiều hơn về điều này hơn chúng tôi để hiểu những ảnh hưởng. Nhưng cũng có sự khác biệt về thế hệ. Tôi đã là một đệ nhất phu nhân rất khác. Không khác nhiều so với Hillary Clinton, nhưng đó là một thời điểm khác. Chúng tôi có những đứa trẻ nhỏ trong Nhà Trắng, và điều đó không thường xảy ra. Chỉ có những điều kiện và cách mà West Wing không nghĩ đến hoặc làm việc để bảo vệ toàn bộ chúng tôi trong quá trình này như một đơn vị. Và vì vậy, nếu tôi biết những gì tôi biết bây giờ, tôi đã yêu cầu những điều khác. Nhưng cuối cùng, tôi đã phải thúc đẩy để có được những điều mà chúng tôi cần để có thể hoạt động như một gia đình.
    Ngay cả khi đến vấn đề Cơ quan Mật vụ bảo vệ trẻ nhỏ, bạn biết đấy, các cô gái cần phải có một đội hộ tống, đúng không? Vì vậy, họ bắt đầu vào trường lớp hai và lớp năm trong những chiếc xe có trang bị vũ khí với những người đàn ông mang súng vào một trường học mới, những người lạ mà họ không quen biết. Và đội hộ tống thì không có kinh nghiệm gì khi đến sân trường lớp hai của Sidwell. Vì vậy, chúng tôi đã phải làm việc rất nhiều để tìm ra cách làm điều này cho trẻ nhỏ, bạn biết đấy? Nhiều lần, các đội hộ tống chỉ đơn giản là vượt qua. Họ liên tục di chuyển qua lại. Đối với tôi, việc tìm hai đội trưởng hộ tống ở lại với các cô gái phần lớn thời gian cho đến khi họ trở thành thiếu niên là rất quan trọng bởi vì đó là kiểu mà bạn quen biết, đúng không? Ít nhất thì họ cũng biết nhau. Họ không thể có những người đàn ông lạ xuyên suốt, và chúng tôi đã phải chiến đấu cho điều đó. Đây chỉ là một ví dụ về việc sống dưới những điều như vậy và cố gắng nuôi dạy trẻ nhỏ, bạn biết đấy, những điều mà những người trong West Wing không nghĩ đến khi họ giải quyết cuộc khủng hoảng tài chính và xử lý vấn đề Syria, tiếp tục và tiếp tục. Tôi đã cố gắng đảm bảo rằng các con của chúng tôi không bị điên và vẫn khỏe mạnh ra khỏi quá trình đó.
    Việc trở thành đệ nhất phu nhân da đen đầu tiên trong Nhà Trắng, sự giám sát công khai đi kèm với điều đó là một loại giám sát đặc biệt. Để trở thành đệ nhất phu nhân nói chung đã đi kèm với sự giám sát đáng kể. Chắc chắn. Kể từ khi bước vào cuộc sống công khai một cách miễn cưỡng, tôi đã được coi là người phụ nữ quyền lực nhất thế giới và cũng bị chỉ trích như một người phụ nữ da đen tức giận. Tôi đã muốn hỏi những kẻ chỉ trích tôi rằng phần nào trong cụm từ đó quan trọng với họ nhất. Là tức giận hay da đen hay phụ nữ? Tôi đã cười trong những bức ảnh với những người gọi chồng tôi những cái tên khủng khiếp trên truyền hình quốc gia, nhưng vẫn muốn có một bức ảnh kỷ niệm để trưng bày trên mantel của họ. Tôi đã nghe về những góc tối của Internet mà hỏi tất cả mọi thứ về tôi, thậm chí là tôi là một người phụ nữ hay đàn ông. Craig, nếu đó là em gái nhỏ của tôi, sự giám sát công khai, được nâng lên vị trí cao nhất trong đất nước, tôi sẽ hỏi bạn câu hỏi. Bạn cảm thấy thế nào?
    Hãy để tôi quay ngược lại. Vì tôi đã từng là huấn luyện viên bóng rổ tại một hội nghị lớn, tôi luôn phải nói với họ, đừng lo lắng về những gì mọi người nói trên báo chí. Tôi đang làm điều tôi yêu thích. Và điều đó không làm phiền tôi chút nào. Được rồi. Nhưng một khi họ vào Nhà Trắng, tôi lại phải tự nhắc nhở bản thân điều đó. Ừ. Bởi vì tôi biết rằng họ đang làm điều tốt nhất họ có thể cho đại đa số mọi người, bất kể ai nói gì. Nhưng vì đó là em gái và anh rể của tôi, và mẹ tôi làm việc trong Nhà Trắng và các cháu gái tôi, có những lúc tôi thấy mình tức giận và tôi phải tự động viên rằng, tôi biết họ đang làm tốt nhất những gì họ có thể cho đại đa số mọi người. Và tôi không muốn bất kỳ ai khác ngồi trong vị trí đó ngoài em gái và anh rể của tôi. Và đó là cách tôi vượt qua tám năm đó. Bởi vì sự giám sát đó là không ngừng nghỉ. Đó là không ngừng nghỉ. Đó là không ngừng nghỉ. Nó là toàn cầu. Nó không công bằng. Và nó thật ác nghiệt. Nó chỉ đơn giản là ác nghiệt. Và, bạn biết đấy, tôi dựa vào những bài học mà tôi học được từ cha mẹ mình từ rất lâu rồi. Tôi không lo lắng về những gì bất cứ ai nói mà không có mặt ở bàn này. Và tôi đã hướng dẫn, tư vấn cho gia đình tôi, gia đình gần gũi của tôi, giống như vậy. Bởi vì những đứa trẻ lớn hơn của chúng tôi đủ tuổi để đọc báo và đọc tin tức và những thứ trên mạng. Nhưng Misha luôn nhắc đến điều này. Để vượt qua điều đó, cô ấy luôn nói rằng cô ấy cần “ngôi làng” của những người bạn và gia đình của mình. Và tôi chỉ muốn là một phần hỗ trợ trong đó. Và chúng tôi cố gắng ra ngoài càng nhiều càng tốt và làm cho mọi thứ trở nên bình thường nhất có thể, bạn biết đấy, tổ chức Lễ Tạ ơn trong Nhà Trắng. Bạn biết đấy, đó gần như là một mâu thuẫn, tổ chức một Lễ Tạ ơn bình thường trong Nhà Trắng. Nhưng chúng tôi đã cố gắng làm cho nó trở nên bình thường nhất có thể. Còn bạn, làm thế nào để một người đối diện với sự giám sát như vậy? Sự giám sát diễn ra trong tám năm khi, bạn biết đấy, công chúng đang tranh cãi về các ý kiến và ý tưởng khác nhau. Và thường thì tổng thống được coi là kẻ phản diện hoặc anh hùng trong bối cảnh đó. Gia đình rõ ràng bị ảnh hưởng bởi điều đó. Nhưng ngay cả bên ngoài Nhà Trắng, nó cũng không ngừng nghỉ. Có một khuôn khổ nào không? Có một niềm tin nào đó không? Có một tập hợp giá trị nào không? Bạn biết đấy, điều đó quay trở lại những gì chúng tôi đã học trước đây. Tôi nghĩ tôi tiếp cận mọi thứ với lòng đồng cảm. Và Barack cũng vậy. Và anh ấy giúp tôi giữ vững bản thân bởi vì anh ấy rất thông minh và anh ấy tin vào các ý tưởng và hiểu biết về bối cảnh và lịch sử. Bạn biết đấy, chúng tôi luôn đặt những khoảng thời gian, những khoảnh khắc này vào một bối cảnh lớn hơn. Chúng tôi cố gắng hiểu sự phẫn nộ, sự thiếu hiểu biết, sự thù hận của mọi người, bất kể đó là gì, đến từ đâu. Và thường thì điều đó không liên quan gì đến chúng tôi. Bạn biết đấy, nó liên quan đến tình trạng của thế giới, bạn biết đấy. Và thế giới ở quốc gia này không công bằng với nhiều người hơn nó công bằng. Và điều đó ảnh hưởng đến mọi người thuộc mọi chủng tộc. Và mọi người đang tức giận và sợ hãi và họ không có đủ cơ hội. Và khi mọi người bị đặt vào vị trí đó, họ sẽ phản ứng. Họ trở nên ác nghiệt. Đó là khi chúng tôi, bạn biết đấy, chúng tôi làm cho người khác trở thành kẻ khác biệt vì điều đó mang lại cho chúng tôi cảm giác ổn định. Chúng tôi châm chọc ai đó. Ai đó phải bị áp bức hơn chúng tôi một chút. Nhưng điều đó không làm gì mà họ nói hay cảm nhận là đúng, bạn biết đấy. Đó là, bạn biết đấy, chỉ vì bạn nói hay nghĩ như vậy về tôi và cách mà tôi đã phải vượt qua những kỳ vọng kỳ thị màu sắc mà chúng tôi phải chịu đựng trong thời thơ ấu của mình, thì cũng giống như vậy. Nó chỉ như thế này, bạn không tức giận với tôi. Bạn không hiểu nhiều về thế giới. Và bạn đã được dạy rất nhiều điều về những người có màu da như tôi. Bạn đã được dạy để sợ tôi vì lịch sử của đất nước chúng ta, vì những gì bạn đang trải qua. Và khi bạn đặt bản thân mình vào vị trí của người khác, tôi hiểu vì sao mọi người lại sợ hãi. Tôi thực sự hiểu điều đó. Và thêm vào đó, Barack giúp tôi nhớ rằng, điều mà tôi đã trải nghiệm, bạn biết đấy, anh ấy nói đây vẫn là đất nước đã bầu Barack Obama hai lần.
    Bạn biết đấy, và người dân trong đất nước này tự hào về điều đó.
    Có một tỷ lệ rất nhỏ người sẽ không bao giờ muốn một người đàn ông da đen chỉ bảo họ phải đi đến cửa hàng tạp hóa như thế nào, đúng không?
    Họ không thể nghe thấy điều đó.
    Nhưng đất nước này lớn hơn thế, đúng không?
    Và chúng ta đã thấy điều đó.
    Chúng ta đã trải nghiệm điều đó.
    Dù có bao nhiêu sự căm thù hay, bạn biết đấy, xung đột hay chế giễu, chúng ta cũng có rất nhiều tình yêu, rất nhiều thiện chí, bạn biết đấy, rất nhiều người nói với chúng ta ngay cả bây giờ rằng họ nhớ chúng ta.
    Và nó không giống như bất kỳ điều gì, bạn sẽ ngạc nhiên về những góc độ trên thế giới, và các con gái của chúng ta cảm nhận được điều đó và vẫn cảm nhận được, đúng không?
    Điều đó cũng đúng.
    Chúng ta đang trong một thời gian rất khó khăn ngay bây giờ, và thật buồn khi chúng ta đang được dẫn dắt bởi những người mà, theo ý kiến của tôi, không phải là bản thân tốt nhất của họ vì bất kỳ lý do nào,
    bất kỳ điều gì đang thúc đẩy họ đẩy đất nước này theo hướng này, bất kỳ nỗi đau nào mà họ có.
    Các tỷ phú cũng có nỗi đau của họ.
    Bạn biết đấy, những nhà lãnh đạo doanh nghiệp, những người có quyền lực mà muốn có quyền lực và chưa hiểu lý do của họ, bạn biết đấy, có thể dẫn dắt chúng ta vào những cái hầm tối tăm.
    Nhưng chính sự thông cảm đó đối với tôi, khả năng đưa ra một góc nhìn giúp tôi không nhận lấy tất cả sự căm thù đó và thực sự, bạn biết đấy, nhìn thấy ánh sáng trong mọi người, bạn biết không?
    Đó là một cách sống tốt hơn.
    Nó giữ cho chúng ta không bị chua chát, và nó giữ cho chúng ta có hy vọng, và nó giữ cho chúng ta làm việc vì mọi người, bạn biết không?
    Vì vậy, đó là một điều cần thiết để vượt qua.
    Marion, người mẹ tuyệt vời của bạn.
    Bà ấy đã là một nhân vật nổi bật trong suốt thời gian ở Nhà Trắng.
    Ôi, đúng vậy.
    Bà đã mang lại cho bạn điều gì giúp bạn vượt qua hành trình được đưa vào đỉnh cao nhất trong phục vụ công cộng?
    Bà đã đóng vai trò gì?
    Bà đã trở thành một lực lượng như thế nào đối với cả hai bạn lúc đó?
    Đối với tôi, bà tiếp tục là nơi an toàn mềm mại để đáp xuống, bạn biết đấy, nơi mà bà luôn nhìn thấy tôi, luôn, luôn thấy tôi là ai.
    Và bà ấy đã là nơi ấm áp đó cho các cô gái của chúng tôi.
    Bà là lý trí ngay giữa Nhà Trắng, bạn biết đấy, trong cái ngôi nhà lớn đó.
    Mọi người, bạn biết đấy, với sự hiện diện và trí tuệ của bà, bạn biết đấy, sự khôn ngoan kiểu cũ, bà là trung tâm của ngôi nhà đó.
    Mọi người đến gõ cửa bà và ngồi trong phòng của bà và hấp thụ trí tuệ của bà.
    Các bồi bàn, bạn biết đấy, những người làm hoa, những người dọn dẹp, các đầu bếp, bạn biết đấy, tất cả họ đều được bà chăm sóc theo một cách nào đó.
    Và vì vậy, bà là điều đó đối với tôi, chắc chắn rồi.
    Tôi vẫn có thể thấy bà trên khuôn mặt của bạn khi bạn suy ngẫm.
    Bà ấy có mặt ở đó.
    Bà ấy ở đó.
    Tôi thấy điều đó trên gương mặt của anh ấy nhiều hơn.
    Bạn biết đấy, bạn không thấy bản thân mình như, tôi không nghĩ mình giống anh ấy một chút nào, đúng không?
    Nhưng anh ấy trông giống hệt mẹ tôi, đúng không?
    Mất mát đó đã ảnh hưởng đến gia đình như thế nào?
    Bây giờ là năm 2024, vì vậy nó khá gần đây.
    Vâng, vâng, vẫn đau đớn.
    Nhưng, bạn biết đấy, tôi sẽ trở lại điều tôi đã nói ở đầu khi bạn nhắc đến các giá trị mà chúng ta có.
    Giá trị cơ bản là tình yêu vô điều kiện.
    Và Misha và tôi biết rằng mẹ chúng tôi yêu chúng tôi.
    Và thậm chí quan trọng hơn, bà biết rằng chúng tôi yêu bà.
    Bà biết rằng các cháu của bà yêu bà.
    Vì vậy, mặc dù cái chết của bà là điều đau thương và thất vọng và buồn bã, tôi luôn cảm thấy bà biết chúng tôi đứng ở đâu.
    Và bà đã, ngay trước khi bà qua đời, và chúng tôi biết rằng bà sẽ rời chúng tôi.
    Và tôi nói, bạn biết đấy, Misha và Barack đang trên đường đến.
    Và bà đã nói, ôi, điều đó thật tốt.
    Và bà chỉ nói điều đó.
    Vâng.
    Không có gì còn lại chưa được nói.
    Vâng.
    Và có một sự bình yên.
    Vâng.
    Tôi chỉ nhớ bà, đúng không?
    Nhưng tôi cảm thấy bà biết chúng tôi cảm thấy như thế nào về bà, và điều đó luôn mang lại sự an ủi.
    Và nói về sự an ủi, đó là cách tôi cảm thấy khi bà ở Nhà Trắng, vì họ.
    Bởi vì tôi không phải lo lắng về họ khi bà ở đó.
    Bạn đã xử lý nỗi đau chưa?
    Bạn có thể không?
    Tôi chắc chắn rằng tôi đã xử lý nhiều hơn anh ấy, vì anh ấy không xử lý mọi thứ.
    Anh ấy chỉ tiếp tục làm việc qua nó.
    Nhưng, vâng, vâng, tôi nghĩ rằng, đối với tôi, việc đưa ra lựa chọn cho bản thân mình, tôi cảm thấy bây giờ tôi có quyền làm những gì tôi muốn làm.
    Tôi nghĩ rằng một phần của podcast của chúng tôi là một phần của di sản đó.
    Bởi vì, ít nhất đối với tôi là một người phụ nữ, tôi nghĩ ở tuổi 61, tôi cuối cùng đã chiếm lĩnh trí tuệ của mình theo một cách mà tôi không, bạn biết đấy, tôi nghĩ rằng phụ nữ phải mất tới khoảng 60 tuổi để có thể nói, tôi nghĩ tôi biết một điều gì đó.
    Nhưng trí tuệ đó đến từ bà, và bà là dòng chữ cao nhất của sự khôn ngoan của người lớn.
    Và vì vậy bây giờ chúng tôi đã lên.
    Chúng tôi đang tiếp bước, tin hay không.
    Tôi và Craig cùng gia đình, chúng tôi là những người.
    Vì vậy, theo ý kiến của tôi, podcast của chúng tôi, một cách nào đó, là một sự hiến dâng trở lại.
    Giống như, được rồi, hãy duy trì sự hướng dẫn mà chúng tôi đã được dạy.
    Bạn biết đấy, hãy tạo ra bàn của chúng ta và trở thành một nơi mà mọi người có thể đến để tìm kiếm một chút lời khuyên và trò chuyện theo cách mà bạn đang làm, Stephen.
    Giống như khi bạn học được điều gì đó, cách bạn rèn giũa nó là bạn tiếp tục dạy điều đó cho những người khác, đúng không?
    Bạn đã nói điều đó, đúng không?
    Và vì vậy điều này là một phần giúp chúng tôi tiếp tục, bạn biết đấy, bằng cách giúp đỡ người khác, điều đó là điều mà cả hai chúng tôi đều tìm thấy niềm vui lớn từ đó, việc hướng dẫn, chỉ đơn giản là có thể, bạn biết đấy, có cuộc trò chuyện này ở đây.
    Và có thể ai đó sẽ nhận được điều gì đó từ nó mà tôi đã bỏ lỡ khi tôi ở tuổi của họ.
    Điều đó mang lại cho chúng tôi niềm vui.
    Giống như chúng tôi ở đây vì một lý do khác ngoài việc kiếm nhiều tiền và, bạn biết đấy, sống một cuộc sống tốt đẹp hoặc trở nên nổi tiếng.
    Giống như có lẽ chúng tôi có thể giúp ai đó.
    Sự cho phép.
    Tôi đã theo dõi sự kiện về quyết định của bạn, quyết định của bạn để lấy lại một phần quyền kiểm soát của mình và không tham dự lễ nhậm chức của Trump.
    Đó có phải là một trong những khoảnh khắc quan trọng trong cuộc đời của bạn mà bạn đã lấy lại quyền kiểm soát?
    Chắc chắn rồi.
    Chắc chắn rồi.
    Suy nghĩ phía sau quyết định đó là gì?
    Tôi muốn làm gì trong khoảnh khắc này, bạn biết đấy, như một người đã luôn kiểm tra các hộp suốt cuộc đời mình, làm điều đúng đắn, cố gắng luôn là một tấm gương, luôn đi lên.
    Tôi nghĩ bây giờ tôi đã đạt được một chút về, ừ, tôi cảm thấy như thế nào, bạn biết không?
    Tôi có muốn thay đổi cuộc đời mình và thực hiện chuyến đi này, bỏ lại sự bình yên và những đứa trẻ của tôi vì điều này không?
    Tôi không cần phải làm vậy.
    Đó là sự lựa chọn của tôi.
    Và tôi sẽ không – tôi sẽ không bao giờ đưa ra lựa chọn đó.
    Tôi sẽ luôn làm những gì tôi nghĩ là đúng đắn cho người khác để làm gương.
    Và tôi nghĩ tôi đã tự nhủ rằng, tôi nghĩ tôi đã làm đủ điều đó.
    Và nếu tôi chưa đủ, thì tôi sẽ không bao giờ làm.
    Nó sẽ không bao giờ đủ.
    Vậy nên hãy để tôi bắt đầu từ bây giờ.
    Đây là thời điểm hoàn hảo để bắt đầu.
    Vì vậy, đúng vậy.
    Rõ ràng, sau đó, mọi người bắt đầu dấy lên những tin đồn rằng có vấn đề với bạn và Brock và có một cuộc ly hôn đang đến.
    Tôi có thể – ý tôi là, bạn có thể tự nói điều đó, nhưng tôi không nghĩ điều đó cần được đề cập.
    Nhưng những gì tôi sẽ nói, bạn biết tôi đủ rồi, Stephen, là nếu tôi gặp vấn đề với chồng mình, mọi người sẽ biết điều đó.
    Tôi sẽ như vậy, và để tôi kể cho bạn nghe.
    Và anh ấy sẽ biết điều đó và mọi người sẽ biết điều đó.
    Tôi không phải là một người khổ hạnh.
    Tôi không phải vậy, bạn biết mà.
    Và tôi sẽ giải quyết vấn đề công khai và nói rằng, để tôi kể cho bạn nghe anh ấy đã làm gì.
    Nghe này, nếu họ đang –
    Anh ấy cũng có một podcast bây giờ, vì vậy chúng tôi đã –
    Chờ đã, nhưng nếu họ đang gặp vấn đề, tôi sẽ làm một podcast với anh ấy.
    Podcast của bạn thật tuyệt vời, và tôi rất khuyến khích mọi người hãy đi và xem nó.
    Tôi sẽ để liên kết dưới đây trên màn hình.
    Tôi đã may mắn được mời tham gia hôm qua, và chúng tôi đã có một cuộc trò chuyện tuyệt vời ở đó.
    Chúng tôi thực sự đã có.
    Theo quan điểm của tôi, đó là một phản ánh của cuộc trò chuyện loại này.
    Đó là con người.
    Đó là sự khám phá cuộc sống.
    Bạn đang đưa những người có nhiều sự khôn ngoan vào đó để chia sẻ, nhưng bạn đang vượt qua điều đó để hiểu thế giới mà tất cả chúng ta đang sống và những cuộc đấu tranh mà tất cả chúng ta đều đang phải đối mặt.
    Vì vậy, đó là một không gian tuyệt vời trên internet.
    Tôi rất khuyến khích những khán giả của mình hãy đi và kiểm tra nó trên Spotify, trên YouTube, bất cứ nơi nào bạn lấy podcast của mình.
    Đó là một điều nhất định phải nghe, theo quan điểm của tôi, vì rất hiếm khi chúng ta có được cái nhìn và cửa sổ vào gia đình, mà còn cả câu chuyện con người về mọi thứ mà cả hai bạn đã trải qua trong cuộc sống.
    Như một huấn luyện viên thành công, như một môi giới chứng khoán, như một đệ nhất phu nhân, như một người mẹ, và sau đó là mọi thứ bạn sẽ làm sau đó.
    Bạn đang giúp tôi điều hướng thế giới, và bạn giúp những người khác điều hướng thế giới, vì không phải ai cũng có nền tảng đó.
    Không phải ai cũng có cha mẹ ở nhà.
    Không phải ai cũng có, đặc biệt trong cộng đồng người da đen, không phải ai cũng có những người hướng dẫn, và bạn đang gián tiếp hướng dẫn thế giới qua chương trình đó.
    Vì vậy, xin hãy tiếp tục.
    Đó là một điều tuyệt vời khi được podcast, và tôi đã rất vui khi nghe tin bạn gia nhập ngành công nghiệp này.
    Chúng tôi có một truyền thống kết thúc, và truyền thống kết thúc trong podcast này là khách mời cuối cùng để lại một câu hỏi cho khách mời tiếp theo, mà không biết họ để lại cho ai.
    Được rồi.
    Vậy câu hỏi đã được để lại cho cả hai bạn là, nếu có một người trong cuộc đời bạn mà bạn đã sợ đặt ra ranh giới nhưng biết rằng bạn cần phải làm như vậy, thì đó sẽ là ai?
    Bây giờ, bạn không cần phải nêu tên họ, nhưng tôi đoán câu hỏi này chỉ nói về ranh giới.
    Lễ nhậm chức có thể đã là câu trả lời.
    Ừ, tôi nghĩ tôi đã làm điều đó một chút.
    Ừ.
    Đúng, nhưng ở độ tuổi này, chúng tôi đã xác định rõ ràng những ranh giới của mình.
    Tôi nghĩ, bởi vì chúng ta không nêu tên một ai đó, tôi nghĩ hành động thực hành thiết lập ranh giới là điều quan trọng, đúng không?
    Và tôi đang có cuộc trò chuyện đó với các con gái của mình bây giờ.
    Ý tôi là, mất rất nhiều công sức để học cách nói không và không trở thành những người làm hài lòng người khác, mà tôi nghĩ có nhiều người trong chúng ta hơn những gì chúng ta muốn thừa nhận.
    Nó cần thời gian thực hành và hàng thập kỷ thực hành.
    Và tôi liên tục đưa ra các mẹo cho các cô gái của mình về cách làm điều đó, cách làm điều đó một cách lịch sự, cách để không làm khó bản thân, cách không nói có ngay lập tức, cách dành thời gian và nói, để tôi suy nghĩ về điều đó.
    Bạn biết đấy, một phần của ranh giới là chỉ cần nói, chờ đã, tôi không phải đưa ra câu trả lời ngay bây giờ.
    Hãy để tôi quay lại và ngồi trong điều đó, trong yêu cầu và tìm hiểu xem liệu nó có phù hợp với tôi không.
    Và nhiều người trong chúng ta, là những người làm hài lòng, chúng ta cố gắng đưa cho mọi người câu trả lời ngay lập tức.
    Và thật khó để nhìn ai đó vào mắt và nói không.
    Vì vậy, tôi nghĩ rằng cần phải thực hành, thậm chí là thực hành trong ngôn từ.
    Và rồi càng lớn bạn càng cảm thấy dễ dàng hơn.
    Bởi vì bạn biết điều gì không?
    Lời không của bạn thường không làm thay đổi cuộc sống của người khác.
    Bạn biết đấy, họ có thể sẽ thất vọng, nhưng bạn biết không?
    Tất cả, họ sẽ tìm ra người tiếp theo, bạn biết đấy, mà họ sẽ hỏi.
    Thế giới vẫn tiếp diễn.
    Không ai trong chúng ta quan trọng đến mức đó.
    Và mọi người có thể chịu đựng một chút thất vọng mỗi khi.
    Và với điều đó, tôi cảm ơn cả hai bạn.
    Thật là một vinh dự lớn khi được gặp bạn và học hỏi rất nhiều từ bạn.
    Và đúng vậy, sự thăng tiến của gia đình bạn, sự duyên dáng, khiêm tốn, và cách mà bạn đã thể hiện bản thân đã là một nguồn cảm hứng lớn cho tôi.
    Như một người đàn ông da đen trẻ tuổi đang điều hướng thế giới và đang ngưỡng mộ các hình mẫu.
    Mà không thường xuyên ở gần trong cuộc sống của chúng tôi.
    Vì vậy, cảm ơn bạn rất nhiều.
    Tôi không thể nói với bạn rằng bạn đã ảnh hưởng sâu sắc đến tôi như thế nào.
    Hàng nghìn dặm xa xôi trong một ngôi làng nhỏ ở tây nam nước Anh đã có ảnh hưởng sâu sắc đến tôi trong việc hình thành người đàn ông mà tôi đã trở thành trong cuộc đời.
    Và đó là công lao của gia đình bạn.
    Và thật vinh dự lớn nhất khi tôi được nói chuyện với cả hai bạn hôm nay.
    Vì vậy, cảm ơn bạn.
    Thật vui khi được trò chuyện.
    Rất tuyệt khi được dành thời gian với bạn.
    Cảm ơn vì đã mời chúng tôi tham gia.
    Hy vọng đây không phải là lần cuối cùng.
    Tôi hy vọng vậy.
    Ừ.
    Tôi thấy thật thú vị rằng khi chúng ta nhìn vào phần phía sau của Spotify và Apple và các kênh âm thanh của chúng ta, phần lớn mọi người xem podcast này chưa nhấn nút theo dõi hoặc nút đăng ký.
    Dù bạn đang nghe điều này ở đâu, tôi muốn thỏa thuận với bạn.
    Nếu bạn có thể làm ơn giúp tôi một việc lớn bằng cách nhấn vào nút đăng ký, tôi sẽ làm việc cật lực từ giờ cho đến mãi mãi để làm cho chương trình ngày càng tốt hơn. Tôi không thể nói với bạn biết bao nhiêu điều nó giúp khi bạn nhấn vào nút đăng ký. Chương trình ngày càng phát triển, có nghĩa là chúng tôi có thể mở rộng sản xuất, mời tất cả các khách mời mà bạn muốn thấy và tiếp tục thực hiện điều mà chúng tôi yêu thích. Nếu bạn có thể giúp tôi một việc nhỏ đó và nhấn vào nút theo dõi, ở bất kỳ nơi nào bạn đang nghe điều này, điều đó sẽ có ý nghĩa rất lớn đối với tôi. Đó là sự giúp đỡ duy nhất mà tôi sẽ bao giờ yêu cầu bạn. Cảm ơn bạn rất nhiều vì đã dành thời gian.
    掌權者若未能理解自己的「為何」,可能會引導我們走入黑暗的隧道。我們現在正處於一個非常艱難的時期。只有一位,米歇爾·奧巴馬。前第一夫人。她的兄弟克雷格·羅賓遜,正在分享他們難得的觀點,帶我們進入少數人才能看到的世界。我在一個主要是黑人社區長大,我們被教導基本道德價值觀,以便能在社會中運作。但在成長的過程中,我只是做了些例行公事,然後遇見了巴拉克·奧巴馬。他出現在我的生命中,完全不是一個例行公事的檢查者。你一開始拒絕了他,對吧?是的。我甚至試圖把他介紹給我的一些朋友。他說,我們為什麼不出去一下?你對他有什麼看法?老實說,我覺得他可能只會持續兩個月。我記得我媽媽說,至少他很高。但接下來,我們就開始一起建立我們的生活了。我的最初反應是,不要這樣做。會有死亡威脅。如何在白宮養活孩子?我們又該怎麼負擔?如果他真的贏了,你要求過任何承諾嗎?我不知道那段旅程會是什麼樣子,我也不知道我需要為自己談判什麼。如果我知道現在所知道的,我應該早說出來。我在看你不參加特朗普就職典禮的報道時,米歇爾,想知道你背後的思考是什麼。實話是,我發現非常有趣的是,當我們查看Spotify和Apple以及我們的音頻頻道的後端時,大多數觀看這個播客的人還沒有點擊跟隨按鈕或訂閱按鈕,不管你在哪裡聽這個播客。我想和你達成一個協議。如果你能幫我一個大忙,點擊那個訂閱按鈕,我會不懈努力,讓這個節目變得越來越好。我告訴你,當你點擊那個訂閱按鈕時,對我們的幫助有多大。節目變得更大,這意味著我們可以擴大製作,邀請所有你想見的嘉賓,繼續做我們喜愛的這件事。如果你能幫我一個小忙,無論你在哪裡聽這個,都點擊跟隨按鈕,對我來說會是莫大的支持。這是我唯一會要求你的幫忙。非常感謝你的時間。米歇爾、克雷格,我需要了解你們早期的背景,以便理解眼前的成人。我特意這麼說,因為我知道你們的父母一直希望能養成今天在我面前的成人。它的起點是南尤克利德7436號。你知道的,這是所有事情的中心。那是我們在芝加哥南邊長大的家。那是一棟很小的房子。我們住在我們的阿姨羅比的房子上面。這是一棟單戶家庭住宅,位於芝加哥南邊。阿姨羅比與她的丈夫泰瑞結婚,並擁有這棟房子。他們在房子上面有一個非常小、幾乎是一個臥室的公寓。所以這是一棟雙戶家庭房。我們被大家庭圍繞著。那個社區的人們,你可能知道,因為人們資源不多,人們都是住在一起。你知道的,我們共享空間,彼此相鄰。我們與我們的曾姑姑同住,因為這樣可以幫助我們的父母節省一些費用,讓我們能住在更好的社區。因為我父親是一名城市工人。他是一個工人階級的人,沒上過大學。而為城市工作是一份非常穩定的工作,因為這樣會給你福利和一些穩定性。我媽媽想要待在家裡養孩子。因此,為了省下這筆錢,我們團結在一起,與阿姨羅比同住。而我想起的所有冒險和學到的教訓,當我思考我的基本道德價值觀時,那棟房子及其經歷和對話,都是在74街和尤克利德街啟動的。而我提到這一點,是因為你會以為這是一座宮殿,但這只是一個小家。我們大部分時間都共享一個臥室,因為我們根本沒有足夠的空間讓我們每個人都有自己的房間。我們共享空間,只有一個浴室。沒有餐廳,只有一個廚房。按照當時的設置,它實際上是一個一房公寓。客廳是我們共享的臥室,而那唯一的臥室是我父母住的地方。整個地方可能只有700平方英尺。你談到基本道德價值觀。你在那個地方學到的基本道德價值觀是什麼?你的父母又是如何教導你們這些基本道德價值觀的?我因為好奇而問這些問題,因為當我閱讀你們兩本書時,發現你們職業生涯中有一些時刻,作為你們二十多歲的成年人,那些價值觀一再地出現。當我在閱讀時,我在想,他們的父母做了什麼,以如此清晰的方式引導他們?在你們兩人的職業生涯中的關鍵時刻,你們做出不加薪的決定,或不去追求更高地位的事物,而是選擇做其他事情,要麼是與你們的熱情和愛好相一致的東西,要麼是為他人服務的事情。那麼那些價值觀是什麼?你的父母又是如何將它們灌輸給你的?我覺得我們的父母是以身作則。如果我想到一個字來形容我父親,那就是他是一個正直的人。正直、誠實、勤勞、忠誠、可靠。我們談過這些。我們沒什麼物質財富。他無法提供那些。可是他卻提供了一套關於成為好朋友的教訓。他是家裡的長輩,是五個孩子中的老大。而我媽媽是中間的孩子。他照顧著每個人,儘管他有多重硬化症,需要輔助行走。當我們小時候,他需要拐杖。我從來沒見過我父親不依賴拐杖走路。
    多發性硬化症是一種進行性疾病。
    在他的一生中,他變得越來越虛弱。
    但在我們的圈子裡,他是最堅強的人。
    從未請過病假。
    從未請過病假。
    他是那個在社區中培育所有其他孩子的父親。
    當克雷格在打籃球時,他是大多數練習的陪伴者,
    如果他能夠,他的班次允許的話。
    他是社區中許多孩子缺乏這種角色榜樣的父親。
    即使我們不富裕,但我父親從來不會不去幫助別人。
    所以,我想那些照顧別人的價值,那種金錢根本不重要。
    那不是讓你偉大的原因。
    而是你如何展現自己於這個世界。
    是你的承諾。
    是你對待他人的方式。
    正如米莎所說,他是那個會給孩子們搭便車去練習和比賽的人,因為他們的父母無法去。
    他會分享故事,傳遞他的價值觀。
    這似乎嵌入了他本質中,想要傳遞他擁有的知識。
    至於我的媽媽,我認為我從她身上得到了我的慈善基因。
    並不是用金錢,因為我們沒有,但用我們的時間和資源,无论我们有什么资源。
    這一切背後都是無條件的愛。
    這是一個工具,有時候你甚至不會意識到它的存在,如果你有幸擁有的話。
    因為它就是坐在你身下的那些構造板塊,你永遠無法真正看到,但給你某種風險和去追求它的感覺。
    而且,要知道,這不僅是無條件的愛,我們的父母還相信我們。
    他們重視我們的聲音。
    我意思是,他們真的很喜歡聽我們講話。
    他們鼓勵我們思考並解決問題,並主動告訴我們自己的問題,但不會親自解決。
    對於在公立學校上學的孩子來說,這一點非常有用,因為你知道,在公立學校,芝加哥南區的教學情況有些不均。
    有一年,你會遇到一位關心並投入於孩子的老師。
    但在另一個年級,你可能會遇到一位不關心的老師。
    我記得非常清楚,我在二年級開始上學的時候,進入了一個完全混亂的課堂。
    老師顯然不想在那裡。
    我在二年級就知道了這一點。
    課堂毫無秩序。
    我們沒有作業。
    我們沒有進行常規的課程。
    我知道有些地方是錯的。
    午餐回到家,我抱怨說「今天在學校什麼都沒發生」。
    我不知道二年級應該是什麼樣子,但我覺得我沒有從二年級獲得我需要的東西。
    這樣抱怨了一個月。
    我媽媽靜靜地聆聽,但她不僅僅是在聽。
    她在策劃。
    一個月後,她親自去學校觀察,並看到這位老師不僅沒有教學,似乎還不喜歡小孩子。
    所以她去了校長辦公室,發了一頓火。
    我不知道她說了什麼或做了什麼,但我們三個被調出班級做測試。
    我只記得我不必進那個班級。
    我花了幾個星期進行一些專業的測試。
    我們只是在做選擇題測試。
    不知道那是什麼。
    得到結果後,結果證明我可以跳過二年級。
    這對我來說簡直是救命恩人。
    但我永遠不會忘記,我媽媽最終執行了。
    我聽到我爸爸抱怨這位老師,這些不關心孩子的老師。
    她把我們調走了,但她擔心那些被困在二年級課堂的孩子,
    那些沒有父母支持的孩子。
    他們可能會在二年級浪費一年,錯過了他們本應得到的所有東西。
    但這是我知道如果我向媽媽呼救,她會聽見並採取行動的情況之一。
    她可以成為那種說「生活就是生活,振作起來吧」的媽媽。
    但她知道有些事情不同,我想要的和我需要的。
    她讓這一切成真。
    這是否教會你回應那些呼救的人的需求呢?
    可能是的。
    我依然在想那些被遺棄的孩子。
    有些事情對我來說真的很觸動,那些和我們一樣聰明的孩子,因為我們和他們一起長大。
    我媽媽注意到了他們。
    我和他們之間唯一的區別是他們有一位關心的母親。
    而他們的生活和我們的生活看起來因此完全不同。
    而我發現自己成為那些孩子的倡導者,尤其是那些被低估和缺乏支持的孩子。
    結果那是大多數世界各地的孩子。
    所以我確實覺得,對我來說那一刻是非常根本性的,關於我如何為孩子而戰,就像我看到我媽媽為我而戰一樣。
    種族。
    這兩張照片中讓人震驚的事情之一,主要是因為我認為這樣的排列,但這是,
    我相信,是什麼,二年級還是什麼?
    那是小學一年級。
    一年級。
    然後這是七年級還是八年級?
    七年級或八年級,對。
    第二張照片裡的白人少得多,這意味著這也假設了白人開始離開你的學校。
    哦,絕對如此。
    他們正在離開這個社區,離開整個南岸。
    我真正想問的是,種族在你的童年中扮演了什麼角色?
    因為我想到了我自己的童年,而這在我成為什麼樣的人以及我對世界的看法和我對自己的看法中是一個很突出的影響力。
    所以種族問題在芝加哥的年輕人當中是一個議題。
    它扮演了什麼角色?
    我認為我們家裡有很多種族自豪感。
    有一種感覺、一種理解,因為人們的偏見,有很多白人會低估你、會虐待你、會對你做出假設。
    我們的家庭,雙方的整個家庭,都是非常聰明、才華橫溢、天賦異稟的人,要有這麼大的一個家庭,但都是工人階級的人,對吧?
    所以我們生活在某種真正的日常卓越之中,你知道嗎?
    我的意思是,這些人是教師,也有工程師,我們所有的堂表兄弟姐妹都是被期望在學校表現良好的人。
    所以我們被教導,沒有人比你更優秀、更聰明。
    你知道,你是有能力的。
    如果我們的堂兄弟姐妹們沒有那種能量,我的父親對他們來說就是那個聲音。
    總是像是在說,你可以的,你知道自己在做什麼。
    所以在我們的家中,存在著種族的自豪感。
    但是當你知道,住在——當我們搬到南岸,進入羅比阿姨的家時,我周圍的大多數朋友都是白人孩子。
    瑞秋·登普西、蘇珊·雅克和索菲納特·康塞龐特,一個韓國女孩,因為我們住在醫院附近,她的母親是護士。
    所以那是個非常混合的社區——這些管家,他們是一個黑人家庭,但可以被當作白人。
    我的意思是,鄰居裡幾乎什麼樣的人都有。
    梅森小姐,是街對面的小白老太太,我們的鄰居是門多薩家族,墨西哥人。
    你知道,這種情況在我們周圍無處不在。
    而且每個人都相處得很好。
    鄰居彼此認識。
    我們玩在一起。
    我去瑞秋家吃午餐,然後呢,但有一年,就像白人的燈關掉了一樣,他們毫無跡象地消失了,你知道嗎?
    他們稱這為白人撤退。
    這是白人撤退的行動。
    是的,是的。
    那麼你——
    對於任何沒有背景的人,什麼是白人撤退?
    這是一種社會現象,當黑人社區開始在社會經濟上提升,能夠在主要是白人社區裡購屋或租屋時會發生的事情。
    所以白人選擇不接受,開始大規模賣出他們的房子。
    有一種潛在的情緒,認為我們最好趕快離開,因為這些進來的黑人家庭會破壞社區並降低房產價值。
    所以你最好現在就賣掉,往更南邊的郊區去。
    所以當你年輕的時候,你就知道發生了一些事情。
    你知道,我們不是在廚房桌前討論白人撤退的。
    但作為小孩,你知道的是,這些人在逃避我們,你知道嗎?
    就像我的爸爸,他是這樣的,這位非常善良和慷慨的人,對於這些人的孩子,這些白人的孩子,來認識我們、和我們在一起,是有好處的,而我們最終就是這樣的人,我們永遠會是這樣的人。
    你們是逃避我們。
    那我們的感覺是,種族歧視是多麼的愚蠢,而你又是多麼的愚蠢,竟然不去真正了解?
    所以對我和我的家來說,種族只是無知的人愚蠢的表現。
    但我們被教導要繼續前進,怎麼讓它不影響到你?
    我注意到的其中一件顯著的事情,即使我們昨天一起度過了一些時間,
    是毫無明顯的怨恨。
    有人會說這是有理由的。
    因為當你如此有權力、如此顯赫、如此著名時,你被暴露於一切之中。
    而經歷過那些早年的經歷,以及之後發生的一切,
    似乎並不存在任何怨恨。
    似乎也沒有任何心結,任何憤怒。
    是的。
    有時是有的。
    是的。
    但我會說,至少從我的角度來看,媽媽和爸爸,但特別是媽媽,她教會了我們同理心。
    幾乎到了過度的地步,對吧?
    所以她總是說,你要記得,總是把自己放在別人的鞋子里。
    她總是會說,你永遠不知道別人在他們的家中發生了什麼。
    所以我總是以同理心面對對我的負面情緒。
    這是第一件事。
    就像,哦,你發生了什麼?
    是什麼讓你如此兇狠和邪惡?
    我們的父母還非常強調,不要在乎任何不在這張桌子上的人的想法。
    如果我們曾經說過有人說過什麼影響了我們的行為,這時你會看到我父母的怒氣。
    這時你就麻煩了。
    你會惹上我父母的麻煩。
    我的意思是,立刻會有反擊。
    他們會怎麼回應?
    他們會說,那麼你是告訴我,這邊的某個人所說的對你來說比你在這張桌子上聽到的更重要,那麼你就去和某某人一起生活吧。
    我的意思是,我們家裡的懲戒總是一種對話。
    是一種討論。
    你知道你父母何時失望。
    你知道你何時觸動了他們的神經。
    這從來不是關於,嗯,犯了一個錯誤或什麼的。
    這是關於一種感覺上壓迫的思維,內心的壓迫。
    他們不喜歡我們這種思維方式。
    他們希望我們感受到自己的力量。
    他們永遠不希望我們向外界放棄對自己觀念的思考,因為他們可能明白,他們無法相信外界會怎麼對待我們,對吧?
    他們知道我們不能被困在外界的評價中,因為外界是根植於種族歧視的。
    而且,你知道,這位小黑男孩,尤其是我的兄弟,他們可能更擔心他,因為隨著他逐漸長高、變大、變聰明,每天都會面對這種情況,因為我們生活中的所有男性都曾經遇到過有人試圖將他們拉低一兩個檔次。我想我們的父母明白這種情況正等著我們兩個,而特別是我的兄弟。因此他們想要給他足夠的自尊心,讓他能在安全的場合裡充實自己,給他工具讓他埋下同理心的種子,這樣他就不會因此而生氣,因為對一個年輕的黑人男孩來說,憤怒是危險的,你知道的。所以他們以非常巧妙的方式讓我們能夠進行這些對話,並充實我們的同理心,讓我們能夠在一個充滿種族主義的社會中運作。
    被低估。
    這是一個我在你書中看到的詞,而這也是你剛才提到的。
    你知道自己正要進入一個被低估的世界,如果我可以這樣說,這是一個將因你的種族和其他因素而低估你的世界。
    但對我來說,你的肩膀無論如何都是挺直的。我和瓦萊麗談過。
    你知道瓦萊麗嗎?
    當然你認識瓦萊麗。
    我和瓦萊麗合作了很多年。
    她在你生命中算是一個早期的精神導師,蜜雪兒。
    是的,她是。
    她實際上寫過一封關於你的信給我。
    她描述說,她一生中從未遇到過如此清晰知道自己想在社會上實現什麼好事和希望產生的影響的人,但卻又對自己的信念無比自信。
    而當我想到你去哈佛學習法律的時候,那時,參加的人中有大約30%是女性,其中只有更小的一部分是黑人女性。
    你再次意識到被低估的存在,但又似乎肩膀依然挺直。這種情況從何而來?
    生活在這種錯誤低估的環境中,對吧?
    首先,我的成長環境相對較好,幸運地是在一個以黑人為主的社區,白人撤離後,每個人都認為我很聰明,對吧?
    我在小學時畢業時是優等生。
    我上了一所頂尖的高中。
    所以,我有幸在一個能夠肯定我的黑人環境中成長,這是我們常常和黑人學生討論的問題,無論他們是否應該去HBCU,還是當被拉入混合環境後會發生什麼,在那裡你太早被低估了。
    你知道,我們聊過開始對自己告訴自己的那些信息。我不曾有過那種情況,因為當我們年輕時,我的導師、老師、教練、舞蹈老師,都是如果我犯錯或如果他們對我有懷疑,那是因為我以其他方式令他們失望,而不是因為我的種族,對吧?
    因此,當我進入普林斯頓時,感謝上天,我有足夠的內部數據,我能做很多事,我比他們認為我更好、更聰明、更敏銳。
    當我作為本科生走進普林斯頓校園時這一點得到證實。雖然我感到有點緊張,因為這是一所常春藤盟校,而我不是考試的高手,儘管我是個傑出的學生,我並不是一個標準化考試的好手。
    所有那些數字都說我不應該在普林斯頓表現良好。
    因此,我作為一個平權行動的孩子進入,感覺可能我不屬於這些象牙塔,也許這些來自其他學校的孩子們真的比我聰明和優秀得多。
    然後我坐在校園中四處觀望,心想,天哪。
    還有各種我從未談論的平權措施。
    你知道,有財富和傳承。
    還有運動方面的平權行動。
    有很多孩子在那個校園裡,隨著我所學,繼續獲得進入這些權力座位的機會,這與他們的原始學業能力無關。
    有許多聰明的孩子進入這些學校,但也有許多聰明孩子的父母幫他們進入這些學校。
    當我進入校園,第一學期結束時取得全A的成績時,我心想,這是——你們在說什麼?
    你們——你們是誰?
    為什麼你們要這樣搞我的頭腦,而你們根本沒比我努力?
    但這讓人感到憤怒,但也解放了我,因為我明白了。
    這——你只是在試圖進入我的頭腦。
    你害怕我知道嗎?
    你知道,你不想我和你競爭。
    我想在那個時期,進入一所頂尖學校時,我想,夠了。
    我不想再擔心自己是否在這裡屬於這個地方。
    你知道,這是個騙局。
    所以我想,這真的讓我從普林斯頓出來就感到,嗷,讓我去面對他們。
    你知道,忘掉這些東西。
    而現在我試圖告訴其他孩子。
    就像我從山頂上帶著真理的石碑下來,告訴他們,千萬不要讓這些人騙了你。
    這完全是一個騙局。
    那個騙局是什麼?
    你不屬於這裡,他們更聰明,他們工作更努力,他們知道的更多,他們比你更應該擁有這些。
    這根本不是真實的。
    因此自那以後,我想,你證明我不屬於這裡。
    你知道,我要坐在這些桌子上,而從現在開始我要主導這一切。
    我為什麼要聽你的?
    為什麼你不聽我?
    我認為這對我來說是一種奇妙的解放。
    而且很多孩子沒有獲得進入社會的機會。
    他們只是被排除在外,大概就像他們被告知不要去看幕後的世界,因為你不屬於那裡。
    而他們希望我們這樣想。
    我很久以前就停止這樣思考了。
    你們兩人所經歷的旅程真的非常非凡,原因有很多,但沿途的轉折也同樣讓人驚豔。我讀到米歇爾在27、28歲時作為律師經歷的某種身份危機。
    我就是律師,是的。
    在奧斯汀的西德律師事務所。
    是的。
    優秀且薪水高的企業律師,讓我可以買得起一輛漂亮的薩博車。
    薩博,開著律師的車。
    開著律師的車。
    我在哈佛畢業後的第一份真正的工作,因為這就是你應該做的。
    你知道的,當你去頂尖法學院之後,會被國內頂尖律師事務所招募,他們會給你提供高得驚人的薪水。
    在那個年紀,作為一名初級律師,我的薪水比我父母兩人的薪水加起來還多,這似乎是無法拒絕的機會。
    你知道,如果有這個機會,會想,當然,我要為一個律師事務所工作。
    但這就是我一生中所做的事情。
    我只是逐步完成各項任務。
    因為我是個好學生,能做某些事情,所以我就這樣做。
    你知道,我了解這是一個公式。
    做個好學生。
    出席。
    完成工作。
    勾選。
    做到了。
    獲得好的成績。
    進入競爭激烈的高中。
    進入了一所特色高中。
    擔任班級財務。
    班上成績最好的。
    勾選。
    做到了。
    因為我能做到這些。
    我就是這樣在生活中行進。
    勾選、勾選、勾選。
    申請頂尖大學。
    進入普林斯頓。
    對,我進去了。
    以班上優異的成績畢業。
    上法學院。
    為什麼?
    我也不知道。
    其實我對上法學院並沒有特別的想法。
    只知道我對畢業後的生活沒有任何想法。
    不會成為醫生,因為我不喜歡科學或數學。
    我喜歡說話。
    我喜歡爭論。
    所以,為什麼不去上法學院呢?
    於是,我申請了哈佛。
    被錄取。
    進入哈佛。
    你知道,這就是我的思考過程。
    並沒有,並沒有明確的目的。
    我並不知道我在乎什麼。
    我也不知道成為企業律師意味著什麼。
    我只是盡責地完成各項任務,直到我成為一名律師。
    在那一年中,除了我加入西德律師事務所之外,還發生了很多事情。
    我們失去了父親。
    他去世得非常突然。
    我大學時期的摯友蘇珊,因淋巴瘤去世。
    這一切都很突然。
    她在12月被診斷出來,5月就去世了。
    那是我生命中第一次,意外失去那些不應該去世的人。
    你知道,我們曾經失去過祖父母和曾祖父母。
    我真的在47樓的美麗辦公室裡,帶著秘書和車庫裡的薩博,感受到了一種存在危機,心想,為什麼是我?
    我為什麼不是蘇珊呢?
    因為她,那位朋友的夢想不止於表面,她不是在完成任務。
    她上了普林斯頓,但她環遊世界。
    她並沒有立刻進商學院。
    我總是認為,你得把生活整理好。
    你得在一條路上。
    然後我想,謝天謝地,她沒有這麼做,因為她並不知道自己會去世。
    但她不是待在辦公室裡,而是活在生活中,嘗試新的事物。
    而我意識到我為自己並沒有這樣做。
    我所做的只是遵循一個計劃。
    我並沒有試圖找到我的人生目的。
    同時,我遇到了巴拉克·奧巴馬。
    他進入了我的生活,正好是那種不迎合框架的人,我在書中形容他為最終的轉折者。
    他完全不按照常規行事,但他才華橫溢且令人著迷。
    你知道,他並沒有立即上法學院。
    他曾是一名社區組織者。
    他生活在世界不同的地方。
    他真的在試圖以一種我這一代人並不在意的方式理解生活。
    你知道,我是在黑色中產階級裡成長的,對吧?
    人們購買自己的房子,整理自己的車子,試著在律師事務所裡晉升合夥人。
    這是一條非常明確的道路。
    我只探索了那條路以外的一切。
    我想,我必須在安定之前做點更多的事情。
    我想奧巴馬幫我鼓起了勇氣。
    你知道,他是我耳邊那個說,為什麼你要在這裡停下來,安於這份職業,而外面有這麼多你還沒有嘗試過的事物,對吧?
    你可以去做這些。
    我說,但我背負著債務。
    就在那個時候,我們知道我們會在一起。
    我們知道我們會訂婚。
    他說,我們會一起想辦法。
    他說,不要因為錢而安於成為律師事務所的合夥人。
    你知道,你需要以不同的方式看待世界。
    我們會一起想辦法的。
    於是我開始轉變,開始在生活中嘗試其他事物,從此不再回頭。
    克雷格,你第一次聽說你的小妹妹認識一位叫奧巴馬的男士是什麼時候?
    嗯,她打電話給我,說,嘿,我遇見了一個人,我想帶他過來。
    然後我、媽媽和爸爸坐在我們的門廊上。
    她開著她的Nysop 900,這輛車你聽過很多。
    他下了車。
    那是我們第一次見到他。
    你對他有什麼看法,說實話?
    說實話,我當時想,嗯,他可能會維持兩個月,因為他會做些什麼讓我想,哦,這是個難以接受的事。
    然後他就會離開。
    我記得我媽媽說,嗯,至少他很高。
    我們只是像見到她帶來的其他人一樣見到他。
    但我從來沒有帶來很多男朋友。
    她也沒有帶來太多男生。所以我們才會認為這不會持續太久,因為她沒有帶太多男生來。
    是啊,但你為什麼會認為這不會持續?
    那些不會持續的人,你們都沒有見過。
    但我們聽說過他們。
    是啊,但你們從未見過他們。
    是啊,我對我妹妹了解很長時間了。
    這就是為什麼米歇爾對男性很嚴厲的原因,你知道的。
    所以就像,對。
    我沒有說她很嚴厲。
    我把他們帶回家。
    我想你只見過我另一個男朋友,儘管我有很多男朋友。
    我只是,你知道。
    我見過不止兩個男孩。
    那是因為我們一起上學。
    對吧?
    對。
    那些男孩沒有持久下去。
    但他們沒有回家。
    好吧。
    那我見過他們。
    對。
    我見過他們。
    但他們沒有見過我爸媽。
    不,他們沒有見過我爸媽。
    但那是因為我們不在芝加哥。
    哦,無論如何。
    那麼,最重要的事其實是結果如何,對吧?
    所以這就是兄弟姐妹。
    就像,哦,你知道。
    你一開始拒絕了他,對嗎?
    對,對。
    因為他,巴拉克是,我被指派做他的顧問。
    這並不意味著我是他的上司。
    但每個人,我是一個一年的夥伴。
    所以他們試著讓一年級的新夥伴和新的暑期實習生配對,以幫助他們適應
    並給他們一些建議,以便在夏天指導他們。
    所以我是他的導師,對吧?
    他來了。
    他遲到了。
    所以我想,好吧,這家伙真不登大雅之堂。
    因為在羅賓遜家族,我們不接受遲到。
    但外面在下雨,他沒有帶雨傘。
    所以他有點濕。
    這讓我有點不悅。
    但他站起來了,他很高,而且比他的照片還要帥。
    所以我想,哦,好吧。
    有點出乎我的意料。
    所以我帶他四處看看,讓他安頓在他的辦公室,
    第一天帶他去吃午餐。
    我們聊了好幾個小時。
    我知道我們會成為朋友。
    他很聰明。
    他很有趣。
    有很好的幽默感。
    不太把自己當回事。
    所以我們馬上就合得來。
    在那個夏天的過程中,我們其實變得非常要好。
    我甚至試著把他介紹給我的一些朋友,我的女朋友們,說,有這個真的很帥的家伙是我的顧問。
    因為在我心中,幾位去哈佛的黑人同事不可能約會。
    在我心中,我想,這樣會很矯情。
    這是可以預見的。
    對吧?
    而我則有點想要做些不同的事情。
    對吧?
    所以我的想法是,啊,去認識我認識的所有精彩美麗的女人們。
    經過幾次出遊後,他說,為什麼我們不約會呢?
    我說,我們絕對不會約會。
    這是不可能的。
    我們是朋友。
    他有點困惑,為什麼?
    然後他陳述了他的理由。
    我說,好吧,你知道,我覺得這樣看起來不太對。
    他說,誰在乎這樣看起來怎麼樣?
    所以,他在接下來的幾週中提出了他的巴拉克·歐巴馬論點。
    最後,我說,好吧,我們約會一次。
    所以在那之後,他精心策劃了一整天的約會。
    我肯定是因為我有好車去接他的。
    然後我們去了藝術學院,他向我展示了他的優雅藝術觀。
    我們在博物館吃了午餐。
    然後我們從藝術學院沿密歇根大道向北走。
    我們手牽手、慢慢交談。
    然後我們去湖點大廈的餐廳共進晚餐,那是一個欣賞城市美景的美妙地點。
    然後,我想,我們結束了晚上,去看斯派克·李的《做對的事》。
    所以,我是說,他計劃了,知道文化,知道藝術,知道一次美妙的漫步。
    然後我漸漸地覺得,好的,也許我,知道,我說得太早了。
    你知道,也許這裡真的有些東西。
    但,是的,這一切都很長,我說我拒絕了大約一個月或兩個月。
    但到夏天結束時,我們,我想,正是那個夏天。
    到夏天結束時,我就在介紹他給我的家人。
    你們兩個都有這條在你們故事中的共同主題,都是為了滿足期望的條件。
    然後最終,這有點像我們昨天在你的節目裡談論的,有時你的先入為主必須讓你失望。
    對,沒錯。
    你必須親身感受才能理解,也許你的人生需要一些轉變。
    當我談到我的早期旅程時,也是如此。
    瓦萊麗,這個在你生活中非常有趣的角色。
    這是我找到的信,瓦萊麗寫給我的。
    她談到了你從一名律師轉變離開律所,去追尋其他事情的轉變。
    在我讀瓦萊麗對我說的之前,你追尋的其他事情是什麼?
    我沒有主意,因為我什麼都不知道。
    但我開始花些時間思考,寫日記,關於我在乎什麼。
    日記的問題是什麼?
    是什麼讓我快樂,你知道,在我生活中的所有事情中?
    有什麼事情是當我把它寫在日曆上時,我會跳下床,會改變我對這一天的感受?
    而這總是回到指導上。
    因為當我在法律、在我的教育中做這些事情時,我總是在找方法去幫助年輕人理解如何到達這裡。
    所以就是克雷格提到的那個指導的部分。
    你知道,我們從不談論這一點,當我們想到我們的父母時。
    這讓我感到絕對的快樂,你知道。
    所以我開始真正聽從那個以自我為中心的部分,知道。
    就像,是什麼讓我快樂?
    我從來沒有問過自己這個問題。
    我總是做我認為自己應該做的事情。
    賺錢是你若有機會接受常春藤教育就該做的事情之一。
    這真的是他們只談論的東西。
    這是他們所展示的一切。
    你知道,幫助別人的事情並沒有課程或專業。
    你知道,沒有針對與小孩合作的課程。
    你知道,尤其是在常春藤盟校,根本沒有這方面的專業。
    所以我知道,我對非營利世界一無所知。
    我對非政府組織毫無所知。
    好的,Valerie說,她說的正好是相反的。
    我在開玩笑,我在開玩笑,我在開玩笑。
    我遇見米歇爾·奧巴馬的那一天徹底改變了我的生活。
    我永遠不會忘記她一身黑衣,優雅地把頭髮梳起,走進我辦公室面試的那一刻。
    她所展現出的自信令我驚豔。
    她握手時直視我的眼睛。
    她如此穩重和自信,讓人難以相信她只有27歲。
    米歇爾告訴我她的生活,她在南區長大,她的父母對她和她的哥哥克雷格傾注了多少愛與支持。
    我問她,為什麼她考慮從事公共服務,而不是成為律師事務所的合夥人這條明顯更能賺錢的路徑。
    她說她在一年內失去了父親和最好的朋友。
    他們的去世讓她痛苦地意識到生命的有限性和讓生活更有意義的重要性。
    她知道自己的能力可以改變他人的生活,為她成長的城市服務並回饋。
    我對她堅定的目標、決心和脆弱感到敬畏,因此當場給她提供了一個工作機會。
    那真是太接近了,對吧?
    是的,完全是這樣。
    像是「哦,Valerie說了什麼?」
    在你那個時期,你知道的,三十出頭的時候,奧巴馬先生在忙什麼呢?
    哦,到了那時,他已經寫了書,因為他是哈佛法律評論的總編輯。
    哈佛法律評論的總編輯是世界頂尖法學院的頂尖學生。
    而且他是第一位被選為哈佛法律評論總編輯的黑人學生。
    這為他贏得了大量的關注。
    那時我們正在約會。
    因此他得到了寫一本故事書《來自我父親的夢想》的書約,我想,什麼年紀寫書啊,對吧?
    但他卻說,是的,我不如告訴他一個故事。
    而且,這也是一筆收入,對吧?
    他獲得了預付款,我們當時已經訂婚了。
    所以他在做這個項目,但仍在試圖弄清楚他接下來要做什麼。
    當你是哈佛法律評論的總編輯時,基本上法律界對你敞開大門。
    正常的路徑是為上訴法官實習一年或兩年,然後去最高法院實習。
    接下來,你會從事上訴工作,你會收到每家律師事務所的邀請,你會很搶手,或者你可以做政策等等。
    這是正常的路徑。
    我問他,那你會去實習嗎?
    他問,為什麼我要去實習呢?
    所以他沒有在任何大律師事務所工作。
    他去了非常小的律師事務所,從事公共利益工作。
    所以他的收入並不高。
    他做的事情和我一樣。
    而且他朝著所有應該讓我們賺錢的方向走的正好相反。
    但他卻說,賺錢不是我做這件事的原因。
    我在試圖弄清楚如何最好地利用我的技能,來影響最多的人。
    所以他做了五十萬份工作。
    而我們當時在攢學生貸款的還款,貸款的金額超過了我們的房貸。
    我們買了一個公寓。
    我們正在一起建立生活,但同時背負著沉重的債務。
    因此,雖然我們都在追求對社區的深厚熱愛,但我們的收入卻朝著應該去的相反方向發展。
    但我們是一起面對這一切。
    你知道,政治還沒有進入我們的生活。
    它不是對話的一部分。
    但是我們都有點在平行的道路上,試著弄清楚如何利用所有這些技能和精力幫助人們。
    我在城市工作。
    他在其他地方工作,同時也在寫書。
    我們只是,看看,籌劃著我們的未來。
    商業讓我走遍世界,我幾乎每年旅行50周。
    直到最近,我面臨的一個挑戰就是在抵達新地點後保持聯繫。
    事實是,我沒有時間等待並在旅途中處理SIM卡。
    所以幾個月前,我第一次試用了Airlo,現在它們是今天這一集的贊助商。
    Airlo是世界上第一家電子SIM卡商店。
    它完全是數字化的。
    根本不需要SIM卡。
    而且你可以保留你現在擁有的同一個電話號碼。
    這意味著你可以在超過200個目的地獲得可靠的數據,並可以通過點擊按鈕立即訪問數字電子SIM卡。
    當你購買第一張Airlo電子SIM時,可以使用代碼DOAC3獲得3美元的折扣。
    對我來說,能夠著陸、打開手機並重回工作是一個變革之舉。
    而Airlo讓這一切成為可能。
    今天安裝Airlo,使用代碼DOAC3能在結帳時獲得首張電子SIM卡的3美元折扣。
    當你下載Airlo應用程序時,代碼是D-O-A-C-3。
    我想我想從你們兩位那裡尋求有關愛情和浪漫及人際關係的建議,因為在我這個年紀,你知道的,我現在三十出頭。
    而當我回顧你們兩位在三十歲時的愛情故事,這並不是一條直線。
    哦,沒有。
    哦,沒有。
    這絕對不是一條直線。
    米歇爾,你提到過和布洛克一起去婚姻輔導。
    對我這樣一個32歲,正在處於一段關係中,積極追求職業生涯的人來說,意識到我需要建立和提升事業,以便為家庭的未來打下基礎。
    你們兩位會給我什麼建議,以幫助我在事業的進程中導航愛情呢?這是一段「去,去,去,去,去」的過程。
    對於像你這樣個性的人來說,我的建議是,當然,我能看出你會想,如果我已經理清了自己的事情,而你的路徑在那邊,只要我們兩個都在往前走,你知道,努力,我們就會好的。
    而通常這樣的情況是可行的,因為你們可以在外面作為兩個獨立的存在,基本上是在打擊自己的「龍」,對吧?做出關於你們要擊敗哪條龍和如何擊敗它的選擇,包括你想使用多少盔甲等等。你們是獨立的人,這在現在感覺很好,直到你們的第一個且最重要的共同項目來了,就是你所說的,你們想要小孩,對吧?這通常是困難的開始,因為當你們將生命帶到這個世界上時,這是一個無法獨立完成的項目。你們不能在一條路上而你的伴侶在另一條路上,因為養育這些孩子,並使他們成為你想要的完整的人,與你當前所打擊的龍相比,實際上有很少的關聯,更多的是關於你們如何合作、互相交流,以及如何共同對這些你們將愛得勝過世上一切的小生物做出選擇。你們不想在這個項目上犯錯,但你們必須與伴侶合作。你們必須溝通。這時事情變得非常困難。對你來說也是這樣嗎?是的。是的。因為當你們在世界上是獨立操作者時,他在外面旅行,我在旅行,也許我一週都見不到他。然後到了星期六,哇,太好了。我愛你。我想你了。這真是太棒了。告訴我你的生活。哦,這太性感了,全都是這樣。對吧。感覺很美好,然後你們也可以暫時休息一下。就像,讓我想念你一會兒。所以我不在乎你在外旅行或到處跑。但一旦有了小寶寶,某人必須被叫醒,如果有一個人承擔了這份重擔,如果某人的夢想因為承擔了大部分的責任而停止,而你仍然在健身房,仍然在以同樣的速度打擊你的龍,卻沒有注意到你的伴侶,可能她現在被困在家裡,因為她在哺乳,或她做出了一些選擇讓這個小生命運作。你們之間尚未討論過這個,以及這種平衡看起來如何,因為你們只是以同樣的速度打擊龍。哦,那麼會有問題的。你知道,會有怨恨,會有疲憊,會有計量和計算,各種各樣的事情。因此,我認為現在開始溝通非常重要,以確保你們共同界定生活,現在一起決定要打擊哪條龍,以及誰在什麼時候做什麼,你知道的。那感覺怎麼樣,你知道你會一直在工作嗎?你會一直在旅途中嗎?她會跟你一起去嗎?她怎麼想的?你們有過那樣的對話嗎?不,不,我們沒有。你們沒有進行那樣的對話?不,因為我不知道這是你需要擔心的事情,因為當你身處其中,當你忙著追尋自己的獨立旅程時,那是美好的,對吧?是的。就像我獨立,他獨立。我們相處得很好。而突然間,有人的腿被砍斷了,你知道的。有人正在做一組不同的犧牲,這些是未經協商的。因為孩子。因為孩子。因為生活。你有過一些懷孕的困難。是的。我在這個節目中與許多經歷過類似懷孕困難的女性交談過。這對我來說實際上是我生活中的一個重要話題,也是我身邊的一些朋友在考慮懷孕時,特別是在你經歷了試管嬰兒之旅時。那些在掙扎的女性需要了解什麼?當你在考慮試管嬰兒之旅並開始面對無法自然懷孕的困難時,你的感覺如何?這就是問題所在,你知道的,因為我們不談論我們的身體和女性健康。關於婚姻、懷孕或所有這些事情的對話實在太少。我們的父母不談論這些,他們的父母也不談論。對吧?所以你想像你的生活就像在打勾。我在等待。我延遲了生小孩。我找到了我生命中的摯愛,現在我要懷孕。沒有人告訴你真的有一個生物鐘。這不是假的。你知道,我們在播客中的搭檔,莎朗·馬隆博士,寫了一本書《成熟女性對話》,在裡面她談到了各種關於女性健康的問題。在和她的對話中,她提醒我們,女性天生擁有有限的卵子,我們不會得到更多。每個月我們都在失去它們。所以,通常會有一段時間,對每個人都不同,通常是在30多歲的時候,你會從肥沃轉變為不肥沃。就像從懸崖跌下來。我在想,為什麼沒有人告訴我這件事?我知道。為什麼沒有人在談論這個?所以在我們真正開始嘗試的時候,這對我們的職業發展和成熟以及將一切都準備好來說是再合適不過了,對吧?因為這就是我們試圖讓一切準備好。不同於我們的父母,他們,我們住在一間小公寓裡,只有一個收入。對於我們這一代人,我們擔心的是,我想一切都準備好。我保證,你們的生活比我們的父母在他們開始有孩子之前要更有條理。但我們卻在等待一切完美,沒有摩擦。我們不想要任何摩擦,對吧?而當我們在等著生活完美的同時,那個生物鐘卻在滴答作響。所以你開始嘗試,但沒有成功。
    這時你去看醫生,他告訴你,「哦,你的卵子快用完了。」這是正常的。我是說,你會發現懷孕會有困難。所以先嘗試一段時間,然後該進行試管嬰兒了,如果你能負擔得起,而當時保險並不涵蓋這一部分。這對身體來說真是個打擊。作為喜歡學習和知識的人,你真的會感到被欺騙,為什麼這會這麼秘密?所以我公開談論這些事情,包括流產。因為我還學到另一個事實,就是大部分懷孕,其實相當一部分都以流產告終。人們這些年來一直在經歷流產,但卻不談論它。因此,當它發生在你身上,一個遵循社會期待的人,一個認為生活會這樣走,一直採取正確做法的人,最終卻沒有成功,並且知道本來就會是這樣卻沒有人告訴你以便你能做好準備,這簡直就是一個打擊。
    作為一個女性,你在生活中承擔著這種打擊,彷彿這都是你的錯,你知道,所以你承擔著這份重擔。這可能會成為婚姻中的第一個壓力點,因為情感上,一個女性在承擔著如此多,感覺像是失敗者,感覺沒有人可以傾訴,且她的荷爾蒙實際上上下波動,對不對?大概要面對抑鬱,也許還有一些產後抑鬱,依然在工作,依然在打拼,依然在前行,但她卻獨自承擔著這一切。如果你進行試管嬰兒,絕大部分的工作,比如注射,我們就是試管嬰兒過程中的培養皿。你來到醫院,取樣在杯子裡,哦,好吧,為你開心,對吧?你也有點為此感到生氣,因為女性每週都要打針,反覆來回,以及在兼顧高壓工作的同時,還要每個月都在醫生辦公室裡,數著卵子,希望自己能夠產卵,然後你得接受程序。
    接著你還得懷孕九個月,而你的伴侶卻在健身房鍛鍊身材,這一切都是如此,你知道?所以我想說,婚姻、不孕、想要孩子讓事情變得困難,原因有很多自然因素。我試著告訴夫婦們,當然,這是困難的。聽聽我所說的對吧?如果你在婚姻中遇到一些問題,不是你。是婚姻的過程。這一切都很艱難。因為,當一切運作良好時,你知道發生了什麼?你得到的是什麼?嬰兒。小小的人,擁有自己的一切感知。他們讓你困擾。你愛他們至極,但他們卻是麻煩,要求很多,有自己的任性,而他們現在已經進入了你的世界,進入了你的伴侶關係。他們已經成為一切的考量。因此,即使一切都運作良好,生了 3.2 個孩子,所有事情都正確了,它仍然會很困難,因為你正在發展一個生活,對吧?所以我談論這些事情,因為我認為人們對婚姻放棄得太快,對吧?因為在這個方程中嵌入了太多的摩擦。如果你沒有得到幫助,談論這些事情,去諮詢,僅僅理解事情是如何變化的,以及如何不斷重新協商與伴侶的關係,我看到許多人因為看到我和巴拉克而放棄,然後說,#情侶目標,你知道?我想說,這是困難的。對我們來說也很困難。但我不會換掉這一切,你知道嗎?他,正如年輕人所說,他是我的人。
    有沒有過一刻你覺得?你知道,有時候我會這樣想,對吧?但那真的嗎?不。不是。我從來沒有真的有過完整的瞬間。有過怨恨的時刻。有過生氣的時刻。有過覺得自己沒有得到足夠注意的時刻。但就像,現在你不也感受到這些在你的關係中存在嗎?是的。你知道嗎?是的。所以我只是理解,是的,我在生氣,但我連為什麼生氣都忘了,對吧?這很正常。就像,我真的那麼生氣嗎?哦,我說了什麼?抱歉。我不是真的想那樣說。所以,最後,在結尾,我們並沒有,我們的美好在於我丈夫和我,我們的伴侶關係是沒有一方真的會放棄,因為那不是我們的本性。我知道他這一點,他也知道我這一點,你知道的?所以不。
    你們的生活因為前總統巴拉克·奧巴馬做出的決定而改變,那就是參選公職。而這對你們兩個人的生活產生了深遠的影響,因為這是世界上最有權力的工作。你成為世界上最著名的家庭。當他說他要這麼做時,你相信他有能力嗎?是的,那就是問題所在。就像,你知道,我心裡明白,他會成為一位卓越的總統。正如我在書中所寫的,實際上,我最初的反應是,「哦,不,天啊,不要這樣做。」這一切與預見這會對我們的生活產生什麼影響有關。我在推測,如果你贏了,我認為他可以也應該贏,那他將是我希望的總統。這一切都與,「這將會怎樣,我們的孩子年紀小,我們必須搬家,如何在白宮養活孩子?那會很危險。」因為他可能成為第一位黑人總統,我們知道會有死亡威脅。此外,其他一切,我們怎麼負擔這一切?因為住在白宮非常昂貴。很多人不知道,很多費用是不涵蓋的。你得為你吃的每一餐、每一份食物埋單。
    你知道,你並不是在為住房和其中的工作人員支付費用,而是為所有事情支付,包括旅行。如果你不是跟隨總統旅行,如果你的孩子是搭乘布萊特星(第一夫人的專機)的話,我們必須為他們搭乘飛機的旅行支付費用。這是一個昂貴的項目。而你還要在兩年內不賺取收入。這些都是我心中所想的。我們該如何應對這一切?所以我的擔憂來自於我認為他可能會勝選。你知道,因為也許在我心底深處,我希望他也許不會勝選,你知道,我希望這是他最後做的事情。但我知道他有能力讓這一切發生。這一次的改變徹底改變了我和我的團隊對於身體運動、訓練和思考的方式。當丹尼爾·利伯曼博士在《首席執行官日記》上出現時,他解釋了現代鞋子如何因其緩衝和支撐特性,使我們的腳變得更弱,無法完成自然應該完成的功能。我們在腳上失去了自然的力量和靈活性,這導致了背痛和膝蓋痛等問題。我已經購買了一雙Vivo Barefoot鞋,所以我把它們展示給丹尼爾·利伯曼,他告訴我這種鞋子正是可以幫助我恢復自然腳部運動和重建力量的類型。但我想我得的是足底筋膜炎,突然我的腳總是疼痛。在那之後,我決定開始用Vivo Barefoot鞋加強我的腳。而利物浦大學的研究已經證實了這一點。他們顯示穿著Vivo Barefoot鞋六個月可以提高腳部力量高達60%。請訪問VivoBarefoot.com slash DOAC,並使用我贊助商提供的代碼DIARY20獲得20%的折扣。一個強健的身體始於強健的雙腳。這從未有過。這是一個由100位世界頂尖CEO運營的通訊。人們時常對我說,他們問我,能夠指導我嗎?你能讓這位指導我嗎?我如何找到指導者?所以這就是我們要做的。你將給我發送一個問題。而你發送給我的最熱門問題,我會將它發送給100位CEO,其中一些是運營著1000億美元公司的世界頂尖CEO。然後我會通過電子郵件回覆你他們是如何回答這個問題的。你可能會問,當你創立一家初創公司時,如何保持一段關係?如果我有一個主意卻不知道從哪裡開始,最重要的事情是什麼?我們會把這個問題通過電子郵件發送給CEO。他們會回郵。然後我們會選擇五、六個最佳答案。最後我們會通過電子郵件發送給你。我感到緊張,因為我認為市場營銷可能與現實不符。但是我看到創始人的回應以及他們願意回覆的意願。我心想,其實這很好。你只需完全免費註冊即可。你是否要求過任何承諾或保證如果他贏了的話?我知道,那並不是很周到。我告訴他,他必須真的戒煙,因為他仍然在抽煙。他在這件事情上時而投入,時而不投入。我們需要有足夠的資金,以便不至於在最後時期財務困乏。而我認為這應該就能行得通,對吧?因為我們只是開始做決策,覆蓋我們失去的收入,做出有目的的行動。所以我當時以為這能成為決策的關鍵。但隨後他被選中在民主全國代表大會上發表演講。他突然聲名大噪。也許我有些順序搞錯了,《夢想之父》再次進入暢銷書榜。他寫了《希望的膽量》,所以他的書籍銷售帶來了很多收入。他看著我,似乎在說,我想我們沒問題。而我心中卻想,天哪,真糟糕。我當時並不知道該要求什麼。我想,我們是盲目飛行。我不知道這段旅程會如何,也不知道我需要為自己談判什麼。這有點麻煩。不知道我需要的是哪部分,這真的很麻煩。你本該說些什麼?哦,我應該說我需要他的團隊真正、真心地重視他擁有家庭的事實。你知道,我不應該只是說,這就是完成這件事所需的。我是說,這幾乎和那些坐在那裡的顧問一樣,幾乎就像是這必須這樣。要記住,總統的職責並不承認家庭。這並不是所設計的。你進入其中,一切都環繞著總司令,而總司令一直是一位男性,整個體系實際上沒有考慮到還有妻子和孩子的需求以及他們面臨的各種要求。所以我最終不得不為很多事情自己奮鬥。如果我當時知道這些,或許勞拉·布什比我了解得多,因為布什家族曾在白宮。或許,我想鬱思,或許有些世界裡的人們對這件事情的了解比我們更深,以理解其影響。但也有代溝。我作為第一夫人與以往非常不同。與希拉里·克林頓並沒有太大的不同,但那是個不同的時代。我們在白宮裡有小孩,而這並不常見。西翼對整個過程中我們作為一個團體的全面保護並沒有考慮到,這也沒有得到適當的安排和考慮。所以如果我當時知道現在所知的事情,我會要求不同的東西。但最終,我必須推動獲得我們需要的東西,以便能夠作為一個家庭運作。
    即使在保護小孩方面,祕密服務也有其特定的安排,對吧?女孩們必須有專責的保護人員,因此她們從二年級和五年級開始進入新的學校時,是由幾名持槍的男性乘坐武裝車輛帶著陌生的面孔去的。而且這些專責人員對於前往西德威爾的二年級校園並不熟練。因此我們基本上需要研擬如何處理小孩的安全。因此,許多時候保護團隊只是匆匆而過,持續地穿梭移動。對我來說,找到兩個能夠陪伴女孩們大部分時間,直到她們成為青少年,這一點非常重要,因為這種陪伴讓她們能夠認識這些人,對吧?至少這樣她們能夠稍微熟悉一下。不能讓陌生的男性頻繁出入,我們不得不為此奮鬥。這只是生活在這種情況下,並努力撫養小孩的一個例子,而那些在椭圓形辦公室裡的人們卻沒有考慮到這些,他們只關心財政危機和敘利亞等問題。我努力確保我們的孩子能夠安全度過那個過程,不會變得瘋狂和不完整。
    作為白宮首位非洲裔第一夫人,伴隨而來的公眾關注是一種特殊的檢視。身為第一夫人本來就充滿了巨大的關注。自從我不情願地踏入公共生活,我被稱為世界上最強大的女性,但同時也被指責為愤怒的黑女人。我想問我的批評者,這句話的哪一部分對他們來說最重要?是愤怒,還是黑,或者是女人?我曾經與在全國電視上對我的丈夫進行侮辱性言論的人微笑合影,但他們卻還是希望在他們的壁爐上擺放我與他們的合影。我聽說過互聯網上的陰暗角落,質疑一切關於我的問題,甚至討論我是否是一個女人或男人。克雷格,如果那是我的小妹妹,在這個國家最高的公職上接受公眾的審視,我想問你,你感覺如何?
    所以讓我回想一下。因為我曾在一個大型會議中擔任籃球教練,我總是告訴他們,不要在意報紙上人們的評論。我正在做我熱愛的事情,這一點完全不會困擾我。但當他們進入白宮後,我必須告訴自己這一點。因為我知道他們正在努力為最多的人做最好的事情,不論任何人說什麼。但是因為是我的小妹妹和妹夫,我的媽媽也在白宮,我的侄女們有時會讓我感到憤慨,我不得不告誡自己,我知道他們正在為最多的人做他們能做的最好,而我不會希望其他人坐在那個位置上,只有我的妹妹和妹夫。這就是我如何度過八年的過程。因為這是無情的。這是無情的。這是無情的。這是全球性的。這是不公平的。這是惡劣的。這真的很惡劣。
    你知道,我回想起很久以前從父母那裡學到的教訓。我不會在意那些不在這個桌子上的人對我說的話。我同樣告誡我的家人,我的直系親屬,因為我們的大孩子們已經可以閱讀報紙和在線新聞了。但米莎總是提到這一點。為了渡過這一切,她總是說她需要朋友和家人的村莊支持。我只是想成為其中支持的一部分。我們盡量多出門,使感恩節儘可能正常化。你知道,這幾乎是一種矛盾,在白宮過一個正常的感恩節。但我們努力使之儘可能正常化。
    那麼,對於你自己,怎樣才能應對這樣的審視呢?這種審視持續了八年,因為公眾之間存在著不同的意見和觀點的戰爭。在這種情況下,總統常常被視作反派或英雄。而家庭顯然受到影響。然而,即使在白宮之外,這也是無情的。那麼,看有沒有一種框架?有沒有潛在的信念?有沒有一套價值觀?你知道,這回到我們之前學過的東西。我想我用同理心看待一切,而巴拉克也是如此。他幫我保持理智,因為他非常聰明,他相信觀念,並理解背景和歷史。你知道,我們總是把這些時刻放入更大的背景中。我們試圖理解人們的憤怒、無知、仇恨,無論是什麼,源自何處。通常這和我們無關,這和世界的狀況有關。這個國家的世界對比公平的人多出得多的事情是不公平的。它影響了所有種族的人。人們感到憤怒,感到害怕,機會不足。當人們身處這種情況,他們會反抗,變得惡劣。這時,他們就會把別人異化,因為這給了我們某種穩定感。我們會找一個人來取笑,希望那個人比我們更受壓迫。但這並不意味著他們所說的或感覺的就是對的。你知道,僅僅因為你這樣說或者想著我,以及我在童年中必須克服的種族歧視低期望,其實是一樣的。就像,你並不是在對我生氣。你對世界的很多事情並不了解。你已被告知了許多關於我這種膚色人群的事。由於我們國家的歷史以及你所經歷的事情,你被教導要懼怕我。而當你把自己放在別人的鞋子裡,我理解人們為什麼會感到害怕。我真的理解這一點。而且,巴拉克幫我記住,這依然是那個兩次選舉巴拉克·奧巴馬的國家。
    你知道,這個國家的人為此感到驕傲。在這裡,有一小部分人一輩子都不會想要一位黑人告訴他們怎麼走到雜貨店,對吧?他們聽不進去。但這個國家的格局比這更大,對吧?我們看到了,我們體驗到了。儘管有很多仇恨、衝突或嘲笑,但我們也有那麼多的愛、那麼多的善意,現在依然有很多人告訴我們他們想念我們。這些在世界的不同角落,都讓我們的女兒感受到這一切,這是真的。我們現在正處於一個非常艱難的時期,而遺憾的是,我們被一些無法展現出最好自我的人所引導,無論他們出於何種原因,或是推動這個國家朝這個方向的東西,以及他們的痛苦。億萬富翁也有他們的痛苦。你知道,那些企業領導者、掌權者,他們想要權力卻沒有理解自己的初心,這樣的人可能會引導我們走入一些黑暗的隧道。但是,對我來說,就是那種同理心,那種能夠換個角度思考的能力,讓我不會將所有的仇恨吸收進來,並且真正地看到人們身上的光。這是更好的生活方式。它讓我們不會變得心懷怨恨,讓我們始終保持希望,為人們繼續努力。所以這是一種穿越困境的必要性。
    瑪莉安,你那可愛的母親。在白宮的那段時期,她是一位卓越的人物。哦,是的。她給了你什麼幫助你度過被推入公職最高峰的旅程?她對你們兩人的角色是什麼?對我來說,她依然是那個讓我能夠依靠的安全港,總是看見我的地方。她對我們的女兒同樣是一個柔軟的依靠。在那座大白宮裡,她是那一份常識的源泉。憑藉她的存在和智慧,那種傳統的智慧,她是那座房子的中心。每個人都來到她的門口,坐在她的房間裡,吸取她的智慧。管家、花商、女僕、廚師,他們都以某種方式被她照顧著。所以她對我而言,毫無疑問是這樣的。當你反思時,我依然能在你的臉上看見她。她就在那裡。她在他的臉上更明顯。你知道,你無法在自己的臉上看到自己,我不覺得自己看起來像他,但他看起來就和我的母親一樣。這種失去對家庭有什麼影響?已經是2024年,這是一個相對較近的事件。是的,是的,這依然是痛苦的。但你知道,我回到一開始的時候你提到的我們所擁有的價值觀。那種根本的價值是無條件的愛。米莎和我都知道我們的媽媽愛我們。更重要的是,她知道我們愛她。她知道她的孫子們愛她。因此,雖然她的去世是痛苦和失望的,我總是感到她知道我們的情感。那時在她去世前不久,我們知道她要離開我們了。我說,米莎和巴拉克馬上就要到了。她說,哦,這很好。她就這麼說了。是的。沒有遺漏的話語。是的。是的。那有一種平靜。我只是想念她,對吧?但我覺得她知道我們對她的感情,這總是讓我感到安慰。說到安慰,當她在白宮時,我對她的感受就是這樣。因為有她在,我不必擔心他們。你有處理過這種悲傷嗎?你能處理嗎?我相信我比他處理得更多,因為他不會處理事情。他只是繼續努力。但,是的,是的,我覺得,對我而言,為自己做選擇,我現在感覺自己有權去做我想做的事。我認為我們的播客是這份遺產的一部分。因為,至少對我這個婦女來說,我認為在61歲時,我終於以一種方式擁有了自己的智慧,我認為女性通常要到60歲左右才會意識到,我想我知道一些事情。但這份智慧來自於她,她是我們最後的長者智慧。所以現在輪到我們了,我們接下來的。不管你信不信,我和克雷格以及我們的家庭都是這樣的。因此在我看來,我們的播客算是一種回報。就像,是的,讓我們延續我們所學到的指導。 你知道,讓我們創建自己的桌子,成為人們可以來這裡獲得建議和對話的地方,就像你所做的,史蒂芬。就像當你學到一些事情時,磨練技能的方式就是不斷教導其他人,對吧?你這麼說過,對吧?所以這在某種程度上幫助我們繼續,透過幫助他人,這也是我們都能從中獲得巨大快樂的事情,這種指導,能夠在這裡開展對話。也許有些人會從中得到我在他們年齡時錯過的心得。這帶給我們快樂。這就像我們這里有一個除了賺很多錢、過著美好生活或成名的理由。我們可能可以幫助某個人。
    許可。我在看你決定不參加特朗普的就職典禮的報導。這是你人生中一個重要的時刻,也是你重新掌握一些控制權的時刻嗎?絕對是。絕對是。這個決定背後的思考是什麼?我想在這一刻我想做什麼,作為一個在生活中一直遵循規範、努力做正確事的人,嘗試始終樹立榜樣,總是向上。
    我想我現在明白了一些,嗯,我的感受是什麼,你知道嗎?
    我是否想在生活中有所改變,去這趟旅行,犧牲我的平靜和我的孩子們?
    我本不需要這樣做。
    這是我的選擇。
    我從來不會做出那樣的選擇。
    我總是會做我認為對他人有益的事情,以樹立榜樣。
    我覺得我告訴自己,我想我已經做夠了。
    如果我還沒做到,那我永遠也不會。
    這永遠不會夠。
    所以讓我現在開始。
    這是開始的完美時機。
    所以,對。
    顯然,在那之後,人們開始傳出你和布洛克之間有問題、即將離婚的謠言。
    我可以——我的意思是,你自己可以說,但我不覺得這需要被提及。
    但我會說,你現在很了解我,史蒂芬,如果我和我丈夫之間有問題,大家肯定會知道。
    我會說,讓我告訴你。
    他會知道,大家也會知道。
    我不是一個殉道者。
    我不是的,你知道。
    我會在公開場合解決問題,說,讓我告訴你他做了什麼。
    聽著,如果他們有——
    他現在也有一個播客,所以我們在——
    等等,但如果他們有問題,我會和他一起做播客。
    你的播客太棒了,我強烈建議大家去聽。
    我會在螢幕下方鏈接它。
    我很幸運昨天受邀參與其中,我們在裡面進行了一次精彩的對話。
    我們確實這樣做了。
    在我看來,這是一種這類對話的反映。
    這是人性的體現。
    這是對生活的探索。
    你帶來的受邀嘉賓都有智慧可以分享,但你更通過這些要理解我們所生活的世界及我們面對的掙扎。
    所以這是網絡上非常棒的空間。
    我強烈建議我的觀眾在Spotify、YouTube,或任意你收聽播客的地方去查看。
    在我看來,這是必聽的,因為我們很少能夠窺見家庭,更更不要提你們在生活中所經歷的一切的真實人性故事。
    作為一位成功的教練、股票經紀人、第一夫人、母親,以及你將來打算做的所有事情。
    你在幫助我導航這個世界,也幫助其他人導航這個世界,因為並不是每個人都有這樣的基礎。
    並不是每個人在家都有父母。
    尤其是在黑人社區,並不是每個人都有導師,而你正是通過那個節目間接指導著世界。
    所以請繼續。
    播客是一件美好的事情,我非常高興你加入了這個行業。
    我們有一個結束的傳統,而這個播客的結束傳統是,上個嘉賓要留下問題給下一位嘉賓,而不知道他們會留給誰。
    好的。
    所以留給你們的問題是,如果生活中有一個你一直害怕設立界限的人,但你知道你需要這麼做,那會是誰呢?
    現在你不需要說出他們的名字,但我想這個問題就是關於界限的。
    就職典禮可能是答案。
    是的,我想我已經做到這一點了。
    是的。
    是的,但在這個年紀,我們的界限已經設立得很好。
    我認為,因為我們不在談誰,所以我覺得這就是練習設立界限的行為,對吧?
    而我現在正在和我的女兒們進行這個對話。
    我的意思是,學會如何說「不」以及如何不讓別人高興需要很多努力,我覺得其中有比我們想象的更多人。
    這需要練習,這需要幾十年的練習。
    我不斷給我的女孩們提供如何做到這一點的提示,如何禮貌地做到這一點,如何,嗯,如何不讓自己陷入困境,如何不立即答應,如何花一點時間說,讓我考慮一下。
    你知道,界限的一部分就是說,等等,我不需要現在就給你答案。
    讓我返回去考慮一下這個請求,看看是否適合我。
    而我們許多像愉悅者一樣的人,正在試圖立即給別人答案。
    而直面某人並說「不」是很困難的。
    所以我覺得這需要練習,甚至在措辭上也需要練習。
    而且隨著年齡增長,這變得容易多了。
    因為你猜到了嗎?
    你的「不」通常不會改變別人的生活。
    你知道,他們可能會感到失望,但你猜怎麼著?
    事情會繼續發展。
    我們都沒有那麼重要。
    人們偶爾可以應付一下小小的失望。
    所以,在這裡,我感謝你們兩位。
    能夠認識你們並向你們學到這麼多是我的榮幸。
    對於你們的家庭的崛起、優雅、謙遜,以及你們的自我表現對我來說都是一個巨大的靈感來源。
    作為一名年輕的黑人男性,在這個世界中探索,並且在仰望榜樣。
    這些榜樣在我們的生活中往往並不容易接近。
    所以,非常感謝你們。
    我無法告訴你們,你們對我有多深遠的影響。
    在英格蘭西南部一個小村莊裡,相距數千英里,對塑造我生活中的我這個人有著深遠的影響。
    這是對你們家庭的贊美。
    今天能和你們說話是我最大的榮幸。
    所以,謝謝你們。
    能和你們共度時光真是一個愉悅的享受。
    謝謝你們的邀請。
    希望這不是最後一次。
    我希望不是。
    是的。
    當我們查看Spotify和Apple以及我們的音頻頻道的後端時,我發現一件非常有趣的事,觀看這個播客的大多數人尚未點擊關注按鈕或訂閱按鈕。
    無論你在什麼地方收聽這個,我想和你達成一個交易。
    如果你能幫我一個大忙,點擊那個訂閱按鈕,我會不懈地努力,讓這個節目變得越來越好、越來越好、越來越好,直到永遠。我無法形容你點擊訂閱按鈕對我有多大的幫助。節目變得更大,這意味著我們可以擴大製作,邀請你想要見的所有嘉賓,並繼續做我們熱愛的事情。如果你能在你收聽的地方幫我一個小忙,點擊關注按鈕,這對我來說意義重大。這是我唯一會要求你的幫忙。非常感謝你撥出時間來聽我說。

    Michelle Obama served as the First Lady of the United States, entering the White House alongside Barack Obama. In this candid conversation, she joins Steven with her brother Craig Robinson, a former college basketball coach turned executive, to open up about everything from Trump’s inauguration to marriage challenges, grief, and rediscovering her purpose.

    Widely regarded as one of today’s most influential voices on leadership, identity, and social progress, Michelle offers a rare, intimate look at her personal journey.

    Together, they discuss:

    • How their parents instilled empathy, discipline, and resilience growing up amid racial tension.

    • Michelle’s journey through elite schools and corporate law, driven by a need to tick society’s boxes.

    • The evolution of Michelle and Barack’s relationship, from colleagues to lifelong partners.

    • Fertility struggles, parenting tips, and what it really takes to sustain a long-term marriage.

  • Navigating life in the White House, grief, personal boundaries, and rediscovering her true calling.

    00:00 Intro

    02:11 Michelle and Craig’s Childhood

    04:48 Values Learned from Their Parents

    08:45 Michelle Skipping Second Grade

    12:16 The Role of Race in Their Childhood

    15:19 What “White Flight” Means

    17:01 Coping with Racism

    20:55 Overcoming Being Underestimated

    26:33 Michelle’s Search for Identity

    30:20 Meeting Barack

    31:59 Introducing Barack to the Family

    33:48 Why Michelle Initially Rejected Barack

    37:28 Michelle’s Career Change: Pursuing Joy

    40:52 Relationship with Barack

    41:25 [No Title Provided – Consider Adding One]

    44:56 Going to Counseling with Barack

    49:34 Pregnancy Struggles

    56:27 Hardest Moments in Their Marriage

    57:31 Barack Obama Runs for Public Office

    01:03:28 What I Should Have Said to Barack

    01:07:11 Being the First Black First Lady and Facing Scrutiny

    01:14:09 Reflections on a Sad Time

    01:15:17 Remembering Your Mother

    01:16:53 The Death of Your Mother

    01:18:36 Processing the Grief

    01:20:41 Not Attending Trump’s Inauguration

  • Follow Michelle:

    Instagram – https://bit.ly/3Ymxs7W 

    Twitter – https://bit.ly/4cYXiVC 

    In My Opinion Podcast – https://bit.ly/3YnxIUg 

    Follow Craig:

    Instagram – https://bit.ly/4lThkVB 

    Twitter – https://bit.ly/4lTGJ1f 

    You can purchase Michelle’s book, ‘Overcoming: A Workbook’, here: https://amzn.to/4jTqcsi (UK) / https://amzn.to/3SbbelM (US) 

    The 1% Diary is back – limited time only:

    https://bit.ly/1-Diary-Megaphone-ad-r… 

    The Diary Of A CEO Conversation Cards (Second Edition):

    https://g2ul0.app.link/f31dsUttKKb 

    100 CEOs: Ready to think like a CEO? Gain access to the 100 CEOs newsletter here: ⁠https://bit.ly/100-ceos-megaphone⁠

    Get email updates: https://bit.ly/diary-of-a-ceo-yt 

    Follow Steven: https://g2ul0.app.link/gnGqL4IsKKb 

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  • China’s Race to Dominate: Listen to Global Tech Wars

    AI transcript
    0:00:12 Hey, it’s Jacob.
    0:00:15 Today, we’re dropping an excerpt from a new audiobook.
    0:00:20 The audiobook is called Global Tech Wars, China’s Race to Dominate.
    0:00:28 It’s by James King, a journalist at the Financial Times, and it’s about China’s push to the
    0:00:33 technological frontier. And we see China’s technological rise today, of course, in everything
    0:00:40 from AI to electric cars. And this story of China’s technological rise, it goes beyond
    0:00:46 just technology. It goes beyond just business. It is a global geopolitical story that is going
    0:00:50 to change so much about how the world works. If you like the excerpt and want to hear more,
    0:00:58 you can get the full book at Pushkin.fm, at Audible, at Spotify, or wherever you get
    0:01:22 in the heart of Shenzhen, a city in southern China, is the district of Huaqiangbei, and it’s home to the
    0:01:32 biggest electronics market in the world. It’s a vast warren of stalls selling every kind of electronic
    0:01:34 component under the sun.
    0:01:44 So we’re standing in the middle of one of the Huaqiangbei electronics markets, and the scene is really
    0:01:50 quite impressive. It’s basically one stall after another. There’s hundreds of stalls here. I mean,
    0:01:56 there’s just piles of electronic components on top of each other in a very higgledy-piggledy way.
    0:02:01 It looks like a rather eccentric hardware shop where you know that you’re selling everything,
    0:02:03 but you’re not quite sure where anything is.
    0:02:14 So we have signal generators, we have multimeters, lots of different kinds of multimeters. Obviously,
    0:02:17 any microcontroller you could possibly want.
    0:02:26 In the market, I met Noah Zerkin. He’s a tech inventor from the US, and he’s chosen to innovate
    0:02:37 new products, not back home in America, but here in Shenzhen. For him, the electronics market is an
    0:02:40 Aladdin’s cave of potential treasures.
    0:02:45 USB connectors of every sort, including some rather exotic ones.
    0:02:51 And these ones over here with lots of, like, brass-looking nodules coming out of them?
    0:02:58 Or something that I’ve actually been looking for for close to a year. A suitable one. Yes.
    0:03:06 So what kind of products could you build with the components that we can find in these markets here?
    0:03:18 Everything from consumer electronics devices to robots, drones, military systems,
    0:03:26 systems to maybe even space systems, right? You can build anything using the components here.
    0:03:33 Yes. I mean, it’s such a tough question because you can literally build anything.
    0:03:40 For decades, this part of China was known as the electronics workshop of the world.
    0:03:49 But these days, Shenzhen doesn’t just make other people’s technology. It’s building its own Chinese tech.
    0:03:58 And in the process, China is emerging as a tech innovator on a course to overtake the US
    0:04:02 as the most important technology power in the world.
    0:04:16 Our excerpt of Global Tech Wars will continue in just a minute.
    0:04:32 We’re here in Shenzhen. We’re standing by a busy road intersection surrounded by a forest of
    0:04:38 enormous skyscrapers, glass and metal buildings reaching all the way down this long avenue.
    0:04:48 Cars, taxis, even motorbikes riding on the pavements around us, pretty much in the center of this vast metropolis.
    0:04:56 Shenzhen is known as the Silicon Valley of China, and it’s changed dramatically in the last few decades.
    0:05:01 About 20 years ago, Shenzhen and the cities around it in the Pearl River Delta made a name for
    0:05:09 themselves by mostly manufacturing other countries’ technologies and maybe copying it as well.
    0:05:15 But now we’re on the brink of a really totally different new era.
    0:05:21 These days, Chinese companies are making their own brands, innovating their own technology,
    0:05:26 and selling that to Europe, America, and all over the rest of the world.
    0:05:33 Shenzhen is home to some of the biggest names in Chinese technology.
    0:05:40 The internet giant Tencent is based here, as is Huawei, the tech behemoth that’s found itself
    0:05:45 at the center of US-China tensions over technology in recent years.
    0:05:53 There are newer trailblazers too. DJI, which essentially invented the consumer drone market,
    0:06:01 is a Shenzhen company, as is BYD, the Chinese carmaker that is fast becoming a dominant force
    0:06:09 in electric vehicles. It all points in one direction, something a think tank recently highlighted,
    0:06:17 that China is overtaking the US in its capacity to innovate. And it’s now ahead of the US in everything
    0:06:25 from advanced batteries to hypersonic aircraft, quantum communications, and supercomputers.
    0:06:32 To understand how that has happened, you need to look at China’s long history of manufacturing consumer
    0:06:43 technology. Okay, in this bin here, these are sort of ancient prototype parts, but let’s take this down.
    0:06:53 And this needs to go on the floor. In his workshop, a short walk away from Shenzhen’s electronics markets,
    0:07:00 the American inventor, Noah Zirkin, shows me what he’s building, an augmented reality headset.
    0:07:08 Okay, so there are, you see there are these three circuit boards up here, and that’s just for making
    0:07:15 the displays work. And there are these two sensors, each of which have two little cameras on them,
    0:07:24 little fisheye cameras to track your hands. Then there are these two big curved mirrors that rest in
    0:07:34 front of your eyes. And the electronics on this headset are basically all made from stuff that you can find
    0:07:36 in the market downstairs.
    0:07:44 Tech inventors like Noah have chosen to base themselves in Shenzhen rather than the United States,
    0:07:52 because being in Shenzhen means having instant access to a vast supply chain of components and
    0:08:00 factories. It means they can work quickly, develop prototype products, test them, and manufacture them,
    0:08:10 all at a rapid rate. Being able to source those components, I was able to order things mostly from
    0:08:16 places that have stalls representing them in the Huachang Bay markets, right, that are right here,
    0:08:24 and have them arrive at my doorstep, if not that day, the next day. Same with the PCBs,
    0:08:34 the circuit boards. Nowhere else can you get 24-hour turnaround. If I make a mistake on one of my prototypes,
    0:08:42 I can identify it, change it anywhere else. This is a big deal. So I can do a prototype iteration
    0:08:48 in 24 to 48 hours. That is not true anywhere else in the world.
    0:08:59 The ability to prototype and manufacture tech products rapidly is giving rise to some really exciting
    0:09:02 companies in Shenzhen.
    0:09:04 Very small factory.
    0:09:06 As a matter of fact, this is not a factory.
    0:09:07 Oh, right.
    0:09:13 It looks like an exhibition center, but it’s not. This is our R&D testing field.
    0:09:17 So where you can see along the windows, there are over 250 chairs.
    0:09:31 A few miles north of Huachang Bay are the offices of the robotic startup UI Bot. They design and build
    0:09:38 industrial robots. In their bright and spacious new research and development center,
    0:09:45 dozens of robots move around the vast open floor, guided by lasers and algorithms.
    0:09:55 The company is growing rapidly. Just a few years ago,
    0:10:01 it was a neighbor of Noah Zirkin’s in a small workshop above the electronics market.
    0:10:09 Guan Jian from UI Bot says access to supply chains and manufacturing expertise
    0:10:15 means startups here can operate at what he calls Shenzhen speed.
    0:10:23 For the most typical example, during the pandemic, we build an anti-pandemic robot with UVC
    0:10:32 lights and a zero-millimeter camera on top within 14 days. I’m not talking about 14 days to get the
    0:10:38 conception of a robot. I mean 14 days for the first prototype. From an idea to a prototype,
    0:10:41 two weeks. That’s supply chain. How were you able to do that?
    0:10:45 We can get every single component downstairs in Huachang North.
    0:10:53 This means UI Bot is rapidly catching up with more established U.S. and European competitors.
    0:10:58 Before the pandemic, there were several strong competitors globally.
    0:11:06 Like we look up to them and we try to study from them. After the pandemic, when we joined a conference
    0:11:12 in Germany, we strangely realized that the European players, they still
    0:11:19 trying to sell the same thing with the one before pandemic, three years earlier. And when we look at
    0:11:25 ourselves, everything’s totally different. So your R&D effort was moving at Shenzhen speed?
    0:11:38 For newer startups like UI Bot, there are plenty of examples around Shenzhen of the potential
    0:11:44 global success that Chinese companies can aspire to.
    0:11:50 We’ve come to a different part of Shenzhen. We’re now in one of the big tech centers of this city.
    0:11:57 We’re surrounded by huge buildings, mostly occupied by some of the biggest tech companies in China and in
    0:12:04 the world. There’s a sound of construction in the background. Three more huge blocks are going up,
    0:12:10 soon to be occupied by other Chinese tech companies. And we’re standing in front of the brand new
    0:12:20 headquarters of one of the companies that’s really put Shenzhen on the map in the last few years, and that’s DJI.
    0:12:28 If you want an example of a Chinese company totally dominating a sector, Shenzhen’s drone maker DJI is a
    0:12:36 good example. Over the last decade it effectively invented the consumer drone market. It now sells eight
    0:12:43 out of ten drones around the world. When it’s coming towards us, it really looks like an insect. I’d say
    0:12:50 a dragonfly or something like that. It’s now gone, I don’t know, that must be 20, 30 meters into the sky.
    0:12:58 It’s just hovering over the forecourt of this building. Now it’s going even higher. Oh my, it’s now outside.
    0:13:10 Success for DJI means a massive new headquarters. Two towers that appear to hover in the sky,
    0:13:15 called Sky City. Everywhere we go in Shenzhen, these enormous buildings.
    0:13:20 Yeah. So if you come here six years ago, now it’s seven years ago, there’s no this building.
    0:13:26 Yeah. But right now, because we got this piece of land in 2016. And in 2022, we moved into this
    0:13:31 building. So after six years, we have this beautiful twin building and campus here. And
    0:13:36 right now we live here more than one and a half years already. Christina Zhang showed us around the
    0:13:42 buildings and told us about the secret drone testing area housed inside one of the towers.
    0:13:49 Before, when we have the office that we rent, it’s so difficult to find a place to fly because people are
    0:13:55 going to walk around. We need to avoid the people. And also, some of the people, they try to know or
    0:14:02 try to find out what is DJI’s next product. So they try to steal and see the product that we’re testing fly.
    0:14:09 So we have the flying site inside this building. You may see off this toolbox, there are four floor high
    0:14:15 area. Oh, four floor high area. That’s the flight inside. Wow. Yeah. That’s very interesting. So they
    0:14:22 can fly it in there in peace. They know nobody is watching. You can maintain your intellectual property.
    0:14:28 nobody can see. Yeah. And also, even without the good condition, like if it’s raining,
    0:14:33 windy, you can still test inside. Yeah. Yeah. Have you got any really cool prototypes you’re
    0:14:36 working on at the moment? We have so many, but I cannot share now.
    0:14:53 A company like DJI represents something that 10 or 20 years ago, to observers in the West at least,
    0:14:59 would have been difficult to imagine. A Chinese company way out in front of the competition,
    0:15:06 setting the pace in the creation of leading tech products. But China’s tech ambitions are not
    0:15:15 limited to robots or drones. China wants to lead the world in all kinds of cutting edge technology.
    0:15:20 technologies. We’ll be back in just a minute.
    0:15:37 The drone maker DJI is one example of a Chinese tech company that’s leading its field in the development
    0:15:45 of technology. Huawei is another. And China might be leading in a multitude of other areas.
    0:15:53 last year, the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, a think tank, made waves when it concluded that
    0:16:03 China now leads the world in 37 out of 44 critical areas of technology. Another think tank,
    0:16:11 the Information Technology and Innovation Foundation, based in Washington, warned that China is evolving from
    0:16:20 from an imitator to an innovator. It’s easy to forget now just how far behind China was in technology and
    0:16:26 how dismissive most of us in the West were about China’s tech capabilities all the way up till pretty
    0:16:32 China’s tech companies. Matt Sheehan is a fellow in the Asia program of the Carnegie Endowment for
    0:16:41 international peace in the U.S. Where would you say China is right now? Is China catching up to the
    0:16:47 U.S. level in many technologies? Is it a peer competitor already? Is it on a trajectory to overtake?
    0:16:53 I think the term peer competitor captures it. I mean, there are some areas where the U.S. is
    0:16:59 clearly ahead in the frontiers of AI, in large language models, in generative AI. That’s an area
    0:17:03 where the U.S. can pretty comfortably say we are ahead. But if you look across other areas,
    0:17:09 if you look at renewable energy technologies, clean technologies, battery powered vehicles,
    0:17:15 electric vehicles, China is far and away the global leader in these. It has the supply chains,
    0:17:24 it has the deep manufacturing expertise, and it’s really on a trajectory currently to dominate those
    0:17:31 industries globally. Look at an area like quantum. It’s still a wide open field. We don’t know which
    0:17:38 sort of path is going to be the most promising, but China is showing results that are just as impressive
    0:17:44 or roughly on par with the U.S. across a few of those different approaches. If you look at, you know,
    0:17:50 the success of platform technology companies, obviously the U.S. has some of the global leaders in
    0:17:57 Google, Facebook, Amazon. But, you know, the most popular app in the world right now is a Chinese app.
    0:18:04 It’s TikTok. In recent years, China has overtaken the U.S. to become the biggest filer of patents
    0:18:12 in the world. But Xi’an says innovation is not just about coming up with new ideas. It’s about turning
    0:18:20 them into solutions and products at a scale that can reach a mass market. This is really an area where
    0:18:26 China’s manufacturing prowess is going to come into play. You know, the idea of China being the factory
    0:18:32 of the world just because it has cheap labor is way out of date. China’s advantage is not the cost of its
    0:18:39 labor. It’s the fact that it’s built up the most sophisticated, intricate manufacturing ecosystem in
    0:18:47 the world, that they have trained engineers who have spent 30, 40 years progressively building and
    0:18:51 refining more and more precise manufacturing technologies, and especially learning how to
    0:18:57 take a good idea and scale it up to the level of, you know, hundreds of thousands or millions of products.
    0:19:03 The Chinese government has technological progress at the center of its national ambitions.
    0:19:12 Matt Xi’an says it’s not clear that China will inevitably overtake the U.S. But he says China’s
    0:19:18 progress so far suggests that the U.S. cannot assume that it will always be in the lead.
    0:19:24 Matt Gi’an: Broadly, but I think especially if you zoom in on the United States and on Silicon Valley,
    0:19:32 we have this narrative that technological innovation, freedom of speech and democracy are all intimately
    0:19:38 intertwined, that you cannot have innovation unless you have free speech, free internet, political freedoms.
    0:19:46 And I think that was a nice story. It fit broadly with our perception of the way that creativity works and
    0:19:52 the way that business and markets work. I think what China has done over the last 10, 15 years,
    0:20:00 it’s essentially pulled apart that narrative that innovation depends on certain types of freedoms.
    0:20:06 You can have, you know, world leading apps come out of a country that doesn’t have a free internet.
    0:20:12 You can have some of the biggest and most successful technology companies in a country that has quite
    0:20:19 controlled markets and a very heavy-handed government. And I think it turned a lot of ideas that we had in
    0:20:21 the West on their head.
    0:20:30 Matt Gi’an: It’s a profound conclusion. It used to be an article of faith that you need a democracy to spur
    0:20:38 tech innovation. But China is turning that argument upside down. In an authoritarian state,
    0:20:45 you can still innovate tech products and sell them to the rest of the world via gloves-off,
    0:20:47 bare-knuckle capitalism.
    0:20:56 Matt Gi’an: So in your daily life, how many times do you feel surprised by new products
    0:20:59 being made and new innovations?
    0:21:03 Matt Gi’an: Almost every day. Almost every day.
    0:21:10 Matt Gi’an: Chi Zhou is a venture capitalist based in Shenzhen. He spent years working at Huawei and in
    0:21:17 Japanese tech companies before returning to China to capitalize on what he saw as a boom in Chinese
    0:21:18 innovation.
    0:21:25 Matt Gi’an: I forced myself to meet at least one company one day, at least one company one day,
    0:21:34 and read five to ten business plans one day, five to ten business every day, every day, almost.
    0:21:39 Matt Gi’an: Almost. So I can see a lot of innovative products.
    0:21:45 Matt Gi’an: Chi Zhou agrees that China’s expertise in manufacturing has helped tech companies develop,
    0:21:50 Matt Gi’an: But he says there’s another factor spurring Chinese firms on:
    0:21:57 Matt Gi’an: The intense competition between Chinese companies for Chinese tech consumers.
    0:22:03 Matt Gi’an: Chinese guys like to use new things like application, one app,
    0:22:08 Matt Gi’an: And they will give up one app very quickly too.
    0:22:18 Matt Gi’an: So if you can’t let them know the valuations of your app, they will give up very quickly.
    0:22:24 Matt Gi’an: This is one point. And another point is competition, competition.
    0:22:28 Matt Gi’an: This is a different culture, I think.
    0:22:33 Matt Gi’an: In Western countries, I do my business, you do yours.
    0:22:39 Matt Gi’an: But in China, I don’t think so. I do my business and I do your business too.
    0:22:48 Matt Gi’an: Zhou says Chinese companies think of it in terms of survival. Innovate or die?
    0:22:52 Matt Gi’an: Survive. Survive is a very important keyword in China.
    0:23:00 Matt Gi’an: China’s transformation into a global tech superpower to rival the US is an incredible story.
    0:23:13 Matt Gi’an: But the question now is whether China is going to maintain that momentum and power past the US and other countries to become the tech power in the world.
    0:23:19 Matt Gi’an: The global success of Shenzhen’s companies suggest it might, but it’s not a given.
    0:23:25 Matt Gi’an: I would say the most advanced technology is not in China, even now.
    0:23:37 Matt Gi’an: In some key industries, we need some time. We need time to develop, like semiconductors, like AIs.
    0:23:43 Matt Gi’an: So China is not the most advanced in terms of technology, but it’s catching up fast.
    0:23:52 Matt Gi’an: Do you think that China one day soon in the next few years could become the most advanced country for technology?
    0:23:57 Matt Gi’an: We developed very rapidly before today.
    0:24:02 Matt Gi’an: After that, I cannot predict. We are still working hard on catching up.
    0:24:06 Matt Gi’an: But when we overtake the US, we don’t know.
    0:24:14 Matt Gi’an: And I think from the point of government, we don’t think one day we have to.
    0:24:17 Matt Gi’an: We have to overtake America. I don’t think so.
    0:24:23 Matt Gi’an: But as a boss of a company, we have to overtake the other guys.
    0:24:27 Matt Gi’an: I am a businessman.
    0:24:34 Matt Gi’an: When I invest in a company, I hope they will be the first one in the world one day.
    0:24:43 Matt Gi’an: A changing of the guard when it comes to technology happens very rarely.
    0:24:51 Matt Gi’an: For the first time, we’re seeing global tech come out of an authoritarian state,
    0:24:54 Matt Gi’an: without free internet, without freedom of expression,
    0:24:58 Matt Gi’an: and where surveillance cameras monitor your every move.
    0:25:04 Matt Gi’an: If China wins the tech race, the impact on the rest of the world will be huge.
    0:25:08 Matt Gi’an: And we’re already starting to see it.
    0:25:20 Matt Gi’an: That was an excerpt from the new audiobook, Global Tech Wars: China’s Race to Dominate.
    0:25:23 Matt Gi’an: The full audiobook is available at Pushkin.fm,
    0:25:28 Matt Gi’an: at Audible, at Spotify, and everywhere else you can get audiobooks.
    0:25:33 Matt Gi’an: One last note: What’s Your Problem will be off for the next few weeks,
    0:25:36 Matt Gi’an: and then we’ll be back with more episodes.

    For decades, China’s economic rise has been symbolized by its unstoppable force of low-cost manufacturing. Now, it’s the leading country in cutting-edge industries like artificial intelligence, electric vehicles, surveillance technology, and more.

    In Global Tech Wars, Financial Times’ veteran journalist James Kynge analyzes China’s rapid technological ascent and what it means for the future.

    Enjoy this preview of Global Tech Wars: China’s Race to Dominate. If you like what you hear, find the full audiobook at Pushkin, Audible, Spotify, or wherever you get your audiobooks.

    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

  • #809: The 4-Hour Workweek Tools That Still Work — The Art of Refusal and The Low-Information Diet

    AI transcript
    0:00:04 Hello, boys and girls, ladies and germs. This is Tim Ferriss. Welcome to another episode of
    0:00:11 The Tim Ferriss Show. Ohayou gozaimasu. I am recording this from my hotel room in Tokyo,
    0:00:19 Japan, where I am in Jinkumai and headed on the road yet again for some more adventures
    0:00:25 and then back to the US. And when I’m doing this, aside from keeping in mind things like
    0:00:31 the mini retirement and setting up systems that persist beyond your return to your home,
    0:00:37 there are many tools that I still use to this day from the book that started it all,
    0:00:45 The 4-Hour Workweek. It came out in 2007, was revised in 2009, and yet it was one of Amazon’s
    0:00:51 top 10 most highlighted books of all time. Last time I checked in 2017. And what that means is
    0:00:58 many of the principles, many of the philosophies, many of the templates still work. There are certain
    0:01:04 tech tools and so on, of course, that have changed over time. Those things change nonstop. The rate
    0:01:10 of improvement, Moore’s Law, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All those things have changed, but there are
    0:01:17 certain through lines and tactics and strategies that still work. So readers and listeners alike often ask
    0:01:22 me, what would you change? What would you update? But an equally interesting question is what wouldn’t
    0:01:27 I change? What would I keep? What stands the test of time? What has already stood the test of time for
    0:01:34 nearly 20 years and hasn’t lost any potency whatsoever? So I’m going to share two chapters from
    0:01:42 the audiobook this week that highlight a lot that you can still use. These chapters push you to defend
    0:01:48 your scarcest resource attention as opposed to just time. One by saying no to people, the other by saying
    0:01:55 no to excess information, which has never had more relevance than today. So there’s a lot in here that
    0:02:00 you can copy and paste. They feature some of my favorite tools and frameworks, including polite but firm
    0:02:07 word-for-word scripts that I still use to this day. As I already mentioned with the tech, some examples may feel
    0:02:14 dated. A handful might seem prehistoric, but just ignore those or treat them as historic artifacts.
    0:02:22 Archaeological dig into 2007, 2009. There’s plenty that you can still borrow that’s effective and feel
    0:02:28 free to remix the rest with modern tools of your choosing, of course. The chapters are narrated by the
    0:02:33 great voice actor Ray Porter. If you are interested in checking out the rest of the audiobook, which is
    0:02:38 produced and copyrighted by Blackstone Publishing, you can find it on Audible, Apple, Google, Spotify,
    0:02:44 Downpour.com, or wherever you find your favorite audiobooks. We’re going to get right to it, but first,
    0:02:50 just a few words from the people who make this podcast possible. In the last handful of years, I’ve become
    0:02:58 very interested in environmental toxins, avoiding microplastics, and many other commonly found compounds
    0:03:04 all over the place. One place I looked is in the kitchen. Many people don’t realize just how toxic
    0:03:10 their cookware is or can be. A lot of nonstick pans, practically all of them, can release harmful
    0:03:16 forever chemicals, PFAS, in other words, spelled P-F-A-S, into your food, your home, and then ultimately
    0:03:22 that ends up in your body. Teflon is a prime example of this. It is still the forever chemical that most
    0:03:29 companies are using. So our place reached out to me as a potential sponsor, and the first thing I did
    0:03:36 was look at the reviews of their products and said, send me one, and that is the Titanium Always Pan
    0:03:42 Pro. And the claim is that it’s the first nonstick pan with zero coating. So that means zero forever
    0:03:48 chemicals and durability that’ll last forever. I was very skeptical. I was very busy. So I said,
    0:03:52 you know what? I want to test this thing quickly. It’s supposed to be nonstick. It’s supposed to be
    0:03:56 durable. I’m going to test it with two things. I’m going to test it with scrambled eggs in the morning
    0:04:03 because eggs are always a disaster in anything that isn’t nonstick with the toxic coating. And then I’m
    0:04:09 going to test it with a steak sear because I want to see how much it retains heat. And it worked
    0:04:18 perfectly in both cases, and I was frankly astonished how well it worked. The Titanium Always Pan Pro,
    0:04:22 has become my go-to pan in the kitchen. It replaces a lot of other things for searing,
    0:04:29 for eggs, for anything you can imagine. And the design is really clever. It does combine the best
    0:04:34 qualities of stainless steel, cast iron, and nonstick into one product. And now our place is
    0:04:40 expanding this first-of-its-kind technology to their Titanium Pro cookware sets, which are made in
    0:04:45 limited quantities. So if you’re looking for non-toxic, long-lasting pots and pans that outperform
    0:04:52 everything else in your kitchen, just head to fromourplace.com slash Tim and use code Tim for
    0:04:58 10% off of your order. You can enjoy a 100-day risk-free trial, free shipping, and free returns.
    0:05:01 Check it out, fromourplace.com slash Tim.
    0:05:08 I am always on the hunt for protein sources that don’t require sacrifices in taste or nutrition. I
    0:05:13 don’t want to eat sawdust. I also don’t want a candy bar that’s disguised as a protein bar.
    0:05:19 And that’s why I love the protein bars from today’s sponsor, David. They are my go-to protein source
    0:05:24 on the run. I throw them in my bag whenever I am in doubt that I might be able to get a good source
    0:05:29 protein. And with David protein bars, you get the fewest calories for the most protein ever. David
    0:05:35 has 28 grams of protein, 150 calories, and zero grams of sugar. I was actually first introduced to
    0:05:41 them by my friend, Peter Atiyah, MD, who is their chief science officer. Many of you know of Peter,
    0:05:47 and he really does his due diligence on everything. And on top of that, David tastes great. Their bars
    0:05:53 come in six delicious flavors. They’re all worth trying. And as I mentioned before, I will grab a few of
    0:05:58 those from running out the door if I think I might end up in a situation where I can’t get sufficient
    0:06:03 protein. And why is that important? Well, adequate protein intake is critical for building and preserving
    0:06:10 muscle mass, especially as we age. And one of the biggest things that you want to pay attention to
    0:06:15 is counteracting sarcopenia, age-related muscle loss. And for that, you need enough protein. When in
    0:06:21 doubt, up your protein. Protein is also the most satiating macronutrient. What does that mean? It means
    0:06:27 that protein out of carbohydrates, fat, and protein inhibits your appetite while also feeding all the
    0:06:30 things you want to feed, which helps you consume fewer calories throughout the day. You’re less
    0:06:36 inclined to eat garbage. All of that contributes to fat loss and reducing the risk of various diseases.
    0:06:42 And now, you guys, listeners of The Tim Ferriss Show, who buy four boxes, get a fifth box for free.
    0:06:48 You can check it out. You can also buy one box at a time. Try them for yourself at davidprotein.com
    0:06:53 slash tim. Learn all about it. That’s davidprotein.com slash tim to get a free box
    0:06:58 with a four-box purchase or simply learn more. Check it out. Davidprotein.com slash tim.
    0:07:05 Optimal minimal. At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking.
    0:07:09 Can I ask you a personal question? Now would it seem an appropriate time?
    0:07:14 What if I did the opposite? I’m a cybernetic organism living tissue over metal endoskeleton.
    0:07:31 6. The Low Information Diet. Cultivating Selective Ignorance.
    0:07:39 What information consumes is rather obvious. It consumes the attention of its recipients.
    0:07:46 Hence, a wealth of information creates a poverty of attention and a need to allocate that attention
    0:07:52 efficiently among the overabundance of information sources that might consume it.
    0:07:58 Herbert Simon, recipient of Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics and the A.M. Turing Award,
    0:08:07 the Nobel Prize of Computer Science. Simon received the Nobel Prize in 1978 for his contribution to
    0:08:13 organizational decision-making. It is impossible to have perfect and complete information at any
    0:08:21 given time to make a decision. Reading, after a certain age, diverts the mind too much from its
    0:08:28 creative pursuits. Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain too little falls into lazy habits
    0:08:36 of thinking. Albert Einstein. I hope you’re sitting down. Take that sandwich out of your mouth so you
    0:08:42 don’t choke. Cover the baby’s ears. I’m going to tell you something that upsets a lot of people.
    0:08:51 I never watch the news and have bought one single newspaper in the last five years in Stansted Airport
    0:08:58 in London and only because it gave me a discount on a Diet Pepsi. I would claim to be Amish, but last time
    0:09:07 I checked, Pepsi wasn’t on the menu. How obscene! I call myself an informed and responsible citizen?
    0:09:13 How do I stay up to date with current affairs? I’ll answer all of that, but wait, it gets better.
    0:09:20 I usually check business email for about an hour each Monday, and I never check voicemail when abroad.
    0:09:22 Never. Ever.
    0:09:26 But what if someone has an emergency? It doesn’t happen.
    0:09:33 My contacts now know that I don’t respond to emergencies, so the emergencies somehow don’t exist
    0:09:39 or don’t come to me. Problems, as a rule, solve themselves or disappear
    0:09:44 if you remove yourself as an information bottleneck and empower others.
    0:09:48 Cultivating Selective Ignorance
    0:09:53 There are many things of which a wise man might wish to be ignorant.
    0:09:57 Ralph Waldo Emerson, 1803-1882
    0:10:04 From this point forward, I’m going to propose that you develop an uncanny ability
    0:10:10 to be selectively ignorant. Ignorance may be bliss, but it is also practical.
    0:10:17 It is imperative that you learn to ignore or redirect all information and interruptions
    0:10:24 that are irrelevant, unimportant, or unactionable. Most are all three.
    0:10:29 The first step is to develop and maintain a low-information diet.
    0:10:36 Just as modern man consumes both too many calories and calories of no nutritional value,
    0:10:41 information workers eat data both in excess and from the wrong sources.
    0:10:46 Lifestyle design is based on massive action output.
    0:10:54 Increased output necessitates decreased input. Most information is time-consuming, negative,
    0:11:00 irrelevant to your goals, and outside of your influence. I challenge you to look at whatever
    0:11:05 you read or watched today and tell me that it wasn’t at least two of the four.
    0:11:11 I read the front-page headlines through the newspaper machines as I walk to lunch each day and nothing
    0:11:17 more. In five years, I haven’t had a single problem due to this selective ignorance. It gives you
    0:11:23 something new to ask the rest of the population in lieu of small talk. Tell me what’s new in the world.
    0:11:30 And if it’s that important, you’ll hear people talking about it. Using my crib notes approach to world
    0:11:37 affairs, I also retain more than someone who loses the forest for the trees in a sea of extraneous details.
    0:11:45 From an actionable information standpoint, I consume a maximum of one-third of one industry magazine,
    0:11:54 response magazine, and one business magazine, ink, per month, for a grand total of approximately four hours.
    0:12:00 That’s it for results-oriented reading. I read an hour of fiction prior to bed for relaxation.
    0:12:08 How on earth do I act responsibly? Let me give an example of how I and other NR both consider and
    0:12:16 obtain information. I voted in the last presidential election, 2004 at the time this was written,
    0:12:23 despite having been in Berlin. I made my decision in a matter of hours. First, I sent emails to educated
    0:12:28 friends in the U.S. who share my values and asked them who they were voting for and why.
    0:12:35 Second, I judge people based on actions and not words. Thus, I asked friends in Berlin,
    0:12:41 who had more perspective outside of U.S. media propaganda, how they judged the candidates based
    0:12:48 on their historical behavior. Last, I watched the presidential debates. That was it. I let other
    0:12:55 dependable people synthesize hundreds of hours and thousands of pages of media for me. It was like
    0:13:00 having dozens of personal information assistants, and I didn’t have to pay them a single cent.
    0:13:06 That’s a simple example, you say. But what if you needed to learn to do something your friends haven’t
    0:13:13 done, like, say, sell a book to the world’s largest publisher as a first-time author? Funny you should
    0:13:21 ask. There are two approaches I used. One, I picked one book out of dozens based on reader reviews and the
    0:13:27 fact that the authors had actually done what I wanted to do. If the task is how-to in nature,
    0:13:34 I only read accounts that are how I did it and autobiographical. No speculators or wannabes are
    0:13:41 worth the time. Two, using the book to generate intelligent and specific questions, I contacted
    0:13:48 10 of the top authors and agents in the world via email and phone, with a response rate of 80%.
    0:13:56 I only read the sections of the book that were relevant to immediate next steps, which took less
    0:14:03 than two hours. To develop a template email and call script took approximately four hours, and the actual
    0:14:09 emails and phone calls took less than an hour. This personal contact approach is not only more effective
    0:14:15 and more efficient than all-you-can-eat info buffets, it also provided me with the major league
    0:14:23 alliances and mentors necessary to sell this book. Rediscover the power of the forgotten skill called
    0:14:30 talking. It works. Once again, less is more.
    0:14:43 How to read 200% faster in 10 minutes. There will be times when, it’s true, you will have to read. Here are four
    0:14:49 simple tips that will lessen the damage and increase your speed at least 200% in 10 minutes with no
    0:14:50 comprehension loss.
    0:14:59 1. Two minutes. Use a pen or finger to trace under each line as you read as fast as possible.
    0:15:07 Reading is a series of jumping snapshots called saccades, and using a visual guide prevents regression.
    0:15:16 2. Three minutes. Begin each line focusing on the third word in from the first word and end each line
    0:15:23 focusing on the third word in from the last word. This makes use of peripheral vision that is otherwise
    0:15:29 wasted on margins. For example, even when the highlighted words in the next line are your
    0:15:35 beginning and ending focal points, the entire sentence is red, just with less eye movement.
    0:15:39 Once upon a time, an information addict decided to detox.
    0:15:44 Move in from both sides further and further as it gets easier.
    0:15:50 3. Two minutes. Once comfortable indenting three or four words from both sides,
    0:15:58 attempt to take only two snapshots, also known as fixations, per line on the first and last indented
    0:16:06 words. 4. Three minutes. Practice reading too fast for comprehension but with good technique,
    0:16:10 the above three techniques, for five pages prior to reading at a comfortable speed.
    0:16:17 This will heighten perception and reset your speed limit, much like how 50 miles per hour
    0:16:23 normally feels fast but seems like slow motion if you drop down from 70 miles per hour on the freeway.
    0:16:30 To calculate reading speed in words per minute, WPM, and thus progress in a given book,
    0:16:39 add up the number of words in 10 lines and divide by 10 to get the average words per line. Multiply this
    0:16:46 by the number of lines per page and you have the average words per page. Now it’s simple. If you
    0:16:56 initially read 1.25 pages in one minute at 330 average words per page, that’s 412.5 words per minute.
    0:17:06 If you then read 3.5 pages after training, it’s 1,155 words per minute and you’re in the top 1% of the
    0:17:17 world’s fastest readers. Q&A. Questions and actions. Learning to ignore things is one of the great paths to
    0:17:32 go on an immediate one-week media fast. The world doesn’t even hiccup, much less end when you cut the
    0:17:38 information umbilical cord. To realize this, it’s best to use the band-aid approach and do it quickly.
    0:17:46 A one-week media fast. Information is too much like ice cream to do otherwise. “Oh, I’ll just
    0:17:53 have half a spoonful” is about as realistic as “I just want to jump online for a minute.” Go cold turkey.
    0:18:01 If you want to go back to the 15,000 calorie potato chip information diet afterward, fine. But beginning
    0:18:09 tomorrow and for at least five full days, here are the rules: No newspapers, magazines, audio books,
    0:18:18 except for this audio book, or non-music radio. Music is permitted at all times. No news websites
    0:18:29 whatsoever. CNN.com, DrudgeReport.com, MSN.com, LOL, etc. No television at all, except for one hour of
    0:18:37 pleasure viewing each evening. No reading books, except for this book, and one hour of fiction pleasure
    0:18:44 reading prior to bed. As someone who read exclusively non-fiction for nearly 15 years, I can tell you two
    0:18:51 things. It’s not productive to read two fact-based books at the same time. This is one. And fiction
    0:18:58 is better than sleeping pills for putting the happenings of the day behind you. No web surfing
    0:19:05 at the desk unless it is necessary to complete a work task for that day. Necessary means necessary,
    0:19:13 not nice to have. Unnecessary reading is public enemy number one during this one-week fast.
    0:19:19 What do you do with all the extra time? Replace the newspaper at breakfast with speaking to your
    0:19:26 spouse, bonding with your children, or learning the principles in this audio book. Between nine
    0:19:32 to five, complete your top priorities as per the last chapter. If you complete them with time to spare,
    0:19:39 do the exercises in this audio book. Recommending this audio book might seem hypocritical,
    0:19:45 but it’s not. The information in this audio book is both important and to be applied now,
    0:19:52 not tomorrow or the day after. Each day at lunch break, and no earlier, get your five-minute news
    0:19:57 fix. Ask a well-informed colleague or a restaurant waiter, “Anything important happening in the world
    0:20:03 today? I couldn’t get the paper today.” Stop this as soon as you realize that the answer doesn’t affect your
    0:20:09 actions at all. Most people won’t even remember what they spent one to two hours absorbing that morning.
    0:20:14 Be strict with yourself. I can prescribe the medicine, but you need to take it.
    0:20:23 Download the Firefox web browser, firefox.com, and use LeechBlock to block certain sites entirely for set
    0:20:37 periods. From their site, www.progonosco.com/leechblock.html. You can specify up to six sets of sites to block,
    0:20:42 with different times and days for each set. You can block sites within fixed time periods,
    0:20:51 e.g. between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m., after a time limit, e.g. 10 minutes in every hour, or with a combination
    0:20:59 of time periods and time limit, e.g. 10 minutes in every hour between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m. You can also set
    0:21:04 a password for access to the extension options, just to slow you down in moments of weakness.
    0:21:12 2. Develop the habit of asking yourself, “Will I definitely use this information for something
    0:21:19 immediate and important?” It’s not enough to use information for something. It needs to be immediate
    0:21:27 and important. If no on either count, don’t consume it. Information is useless if it is not applied to
    0:21:33 something important, or if you will forget it before you have a chance to apply it. I used to have the
    0:21:40 habit of reading a book or site to prepare for an event weeks or months in the future, and I would then
    0:21:47 need to re-read the same material when the deadline for action was closer. This is stupid and redundant.
    0:21:55 Follow your to-do shortlist and fill in the information gaps as you go. Focus on what Digerati
    0:22:01 Cathy Sierra calls “just-in-time” information instead of “just-in-case” information.
    0:22:11 3. Practice the art of non-finishing. This is another one that took me a long time to learn.
    0:22:18 Starting something doesn’t automatically justify finishing it. If you are reading an article that
    0:22:25 sucks, put it down and don’t pick it back up. If you go to a movie and it’s worse than Matrix 3,
    0:22:31 get the hell out of there before more neurons die. And if you’re full, after half a plate of ribs,
    0:22:38 put the damn fork down and don’t order dessert. More is not better, and stopping something is often ten
    0:22:45 times better than finishing it. Develop the habit of non-finishing that which is boring or unproductive,
    0:22:50 if a boss isn’t demanding it. Comfort Challenge
    0:22:59 Get phone numbers. Two days. Being sure to maintain eye contact. Ask for the phone numbers of at least
    0:23:05 two, the more you attempt, the less stressful it will be, attractive members of the opposite sex
    0:23:12 on each day. Girls, this means you’re in the game as well, and it doesn’t matter if you’re 50 plus.
    0:23:18 Remember that the real goal is not to get numbers, but to get over the fear of asking,
    0:23:24 so the outcome is unimportant. If you’re in a relationship, sign up to or pretend to gather
    0:23:31 information for Greenpeace. Just toss the numbers if you get them. Go to a mall if you want to get
    0:23:37 some rapid-fire practice, my preference for getting over the discomfort quickly, and aim to ask three
    0:23:42 people in a row within five minutes. Feel free to use some variation of the following script.
    0:23:46 Excuse me. I know this is going to sound strange, but if I don’t ask you now,
    0:23:53 I’ll be kicking myself for the rest of the day. I’m running to meet a friend, i.e. I have friends,
    0:24:00 and I’m not a stalker. But I think you’re really extremely drop-dead, cute, gorgeous, hot. Could I
    0:24:05 have your phone number? I’m not a psycho, I promise. You can give me a fake one if you’re not interested.
    0:24:13 Just a quick thanks to one of our sponsors, and we’ll be right back to the show.
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    0:25:19 7. Interrupting Interruption and the Art of Refusal
    0:25:27 Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. Ralph Shirell
    0:25:35 Meetings are an addictive, highly self-indulgent activity that corporations and other organizations
    0:25:42 habitually engage in only because they cannot actually masturbate. Dave Berry, Pulitzer Prize-winning
    0:25:51 American humorist. Spring 2000, Princeton, New Jersey. 1:35 p.m.
    0:26:01 I think I understand. Moving on. In the next paragraph, it explains that I had detailed notes and didn’t
    0:26:11 want to miss a single point. 3:45 p.m. OK, that makes sense. But if we look at the following example…
    0:26:18 I paused for a moment, mid-sentence. The teaching assistant had both hands on his face.
    0:26:27 Tim, let’s end here for now. I’ll be sure to keep these points in mind. He had had enough. Me too.
    0:26:35 But I knew I’d only have to do it once. For all four years of school, I had a policy. If I received
    0:26:42 anything less than an A on the first paper or non-multiple-choice test in a given class, I would
    0:26:48 bring two to three hours of questions to the graders’ office hours and not leave until the other had answered
    0:26:57 them all or stopped out of exhaustion. This served two important purposes. One, I learned exactly how
    0:27:04 the grader evaluated work, including his or her prejudices and pet peeves. Two, the grader would
    0:27:11 think long and hard about ever giving me less than an A. He or she would never consider giving me a bad
    0:27:18 grade without exceptional reasons for doing so, as he or she knew I’d come a-knocking for another three-hour
    0:27:25 visit. Learn to be difficult when it counts. In school, as in life, having a reputation for
    0:27:31 being assertive will help you receive preferential treatment without having to beg or fight for it
    0:27:38 every time. Think back to your days on the playground. There was always a big bully and countless victims,
    0:27:45 But there was also that one small kid who fought like hell, thrashing and swinging for the fences. He or she
    0:27:52 might not have won, but after one or two exhausting exchanges, the bully chose not to bother him or her.
    0:28:00 It was easier to find someone else. Be that kid. Doing the important and ignoring the trivial is hard,
    0:28:08 Because so much of the world seems to conspire to force crap upon you. Fortunately, a few simple routine changes
    0:28:15 make bothering you much more painful than leaving you in peace. It’s time to stop taking information abuse.
    0:28:20 Not all evils are created equal.
    0:28:27 For our purposes, an interruption is anything that prevents the start to finish completion of a critical task,
    0:28:29 and there are three principal offenders:
    0:28:34 1. Time wasters – those things that can be ignored with little or no consequence.
    0:28:42 Common time wasters include meetings, discussions, phone calls, web, surfing, and email that are unimportant.
    0:28:52 2. Time consumers – repetitive tasks or requests that need to be completed, but often interrupt high-level work.
    0:28:59 Here are a few you might know intimately: reading and responding to email, making and returning
    0:29:07 phone calls, customer service, order status, product assistance, etc., financial or sales reporting,
    0:29:12 personal errands – all necessary repeated actions and tasks.
    0:29:20 3. Empowerment failures – instances where someone needs approval to make something small happen.
    0:29:24 Here are just a few: fixing customer problems, lost shipments,
    0:29:31 damaged shipments, malfunctions, etc., customer contact, cash expenditures of all types.
    0:29:35 Let’s look at the prescriptions for all three in turn.
    0:29:43 1. Time wasters – become an ignoramus – the best defense is a good offense.
    0:29:49 2. Dan Gable, Olympic gold medalist in wrestling and the most successful coach in history.
    0:29:58 2. Personal record: 299 wins, 6 losses, 3 draws, with 182 pins.
    0:30:02 2. Time wasters are the easiest to eliminate and deflect.
    0:30:08 2. It is a matter of limiting access and funneling all communication toward immediate action.
    0:30:16 1. Limit email consumption and production. This is the greatest single interruption in the modern world.
    0:30:24 1. Turn off the audible alert if you have one on Outlook or a similar program and turn off automatic
    0:30:29 3. Send/Receive, which delivers email to your inbox as soon as someone sends them.
    0:30:37 2. Check email twice per day, once at 12 noon or just prior to lunch and again at 4 o’clock pm.
    0:30:46 12 o’clock pm and 4 o’clock pm are times that ensure you will have the most responses from previously sent email.
    0:30:54 Never check email first thing in the morning. This habit alone can change your life. It seems small, but has an enormous effect.
    0:31:03 Instead, complete your most important task before 11 o’clock am to avoid using lunch or reading email as a postponement excuse.
    0:31:11 Before implementing the twice-daily routine, you must create an email auto-response that will train your boss,
    0:31:19 co-workers, suppliers and clients to be more effective. I would recommend that you do not ask to implement this.
    0:31:24 Remember one of our Ten Commandments. Beg for forgiveness. Don’t ask for permission.
    0:31:33 If this gives you heart palpitations, speak with your immediate supervisor and propose to trial the approach for 1 to 3 days.
    0:31:43 Sight pending projects and frustration with constant interruptions as the reason. Feel free to blame it on spam or someone outside of the office.
    0:31:46 Here is a simple email template that can be used.
    0:32:01 Greetings, friends or esteemed colleagues. Due to high workload, I am currently checking and responding to email twice daily at 12 o’clock pm Eastern Time, or your time zone, and 4 o’clock pm Eastern Time.
    0:32:15 If you require urgent assistance, please ensure it’s urgent, that cannot wait until either 12 o’clock pm or 4 o’clock pm, please contact me via phone at 555-555-5555.
    0:32:25 Thank you for understanding this move to more efficiency and effectiveness. It helps me accomplish more to serve you better. Sincerely, Tim Ferriss.
    0:32:37 Move to once per day as quickly as possible. Emergencies are seldom that. People are poor judges of importance and inflate minutiae to fill time and feel important.
    0:32:50 This auto-response is a tool that, far from decreasing collective effectiveness, forces people to re-evaluate their reason for interrupting you and helps them decrease meaningless and time-consuming contact.
    0:32:58 I was initially terrified of missing important requests and inviting disaster, just as you might be upon reading this recommendation.
    0:33:04 Nothing happened. Give it a shot and work out the small bumps as you progress.
    0:33:10 The second step is to screen incoming and limit outgoing phone calls.
    0:33:18 1. Use two telephone numbers if possible. One office line, non-urgent, and one cellular. Urgent.
    0:33:28 This could also be two cell phones, or the non-urgent line could be an internet phone number that routes calls to online voicemail, skype.com, for example.
    0:33:38 Use the cell number in the email auto-response and answer it at all times, unless it is an unknown caller or it is a call you don’t want to answer.
    0:33:45 If in doubt, allow the call to go to voicemail and listen to the voicemail immediately afterward to gauge importance.
    0:33:52 If it can wait, let it wait. The offending parties have to learn to wait.
    0:33:58 The office phone should be put on silent mode and allowed to go to voicemail at all times.
    0:34:00 The voicemail recording should sound familiar.
    0:34:02 You’ve reached the desk of Tim Ferriss.
    0:34:11 I am currently checking and responding to voicemail twice daily at 12:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, or your time zone, and 4:00 PM Eastern Time.
    0:34:24 If you require assistance with a truly urgent matter that cannot wait until either 12:00 PM or 4:00 PM, please contact me on my cell at 555-555-5555.
    0:34:29 Otherwise, please leave a message, and I will return it at the next of those two times.
    0:34:34 Be sure to leave your email address, as I am often able to respond faster that way.
    0:34:39 Thank you for understanding this move to more efficiency and effectiveness.
    0:34:42 It helps me accomplish more to serve you better.
    0:34:44 Have a wonderful day.
    0:34:46 2.
    0:34:52 If someone does call your cell phone, it is presumably urgent and should be treated as such.
    0:34:54 Do not allow them to consume time otherwise.
    0:34:56 It’s all in the greeting.
    0:34:57 Compare the following:
    0:34:59 Jane, Receiver.
    0:35:00 Hello?
    0:35:02 John, Caller.
    0:35:03 Hi.
    0:35:05 Is this Jane?
    0:35:06 Jane.
    0:35:07 This is Jane.
    0:35:08 John.
    0:35:09 Hi, Jane.
    0:35:10 It’s John.
    0:35:11 Jane.
    0:35:12 Oh, hi, John.
    0:35:13 How are you?
    0:35:14 Or, oh, hi, John.
    0:35:16 What’s going on?
    0:35:21 John will now digress and lead you into a conversation about nothing, from which you will
    0:35:25 have to recover and then fish out the ultimate purpose of the call.
    0:35:27 There is a better approach.
    0:35:28 Jane.
    0:35:29 This is Jane speaking.
    0:35:30 John.
    0:35:31 Hi, it’s John.
    0:35:32 Jane.
    0:35:33 Hi, John.
    0:35:34 I’m right in the middle of something.
    0:35:35 How can I help you out?
    0:35:37 Potential continuation.
    0:35:38 John.
    0:35:39 Oh, I can call back.
    0:35:40 Jane.
    0:35:41 No, I have a minute.
    0:35:42 What can I do for you?
    0:35:46 Don’t encourage people to chit-chat and don’t let them chit-chat.
    0:35:48 Get them to the point immediately.
    0:35:53 If they meander or try to postpone for a later, undefined call, reel them in and get them
    0:35:54 to come to the point.
    0:35:59 If they go into a long description of a problem cut in with, name, sorry to interrupt, but I
    0:36:01 have a call in five minutes.
    0:36:02 What can I do to help you out?
    0:36:07 You might instead say, name, sorry to interrupt, but I have a call in five minutes.
    0:36:09 Can you send me an email?
    0:36:14 The third step is to master the art of refusal and avoiding meetings.
    0:36:22 The first day our new sales VP arrived at TruSan in 2001, he came into the all-company meeting
    0:36:25 and made an announcement in just about this many words.
    0:36:27 I am not here to make friends.
    0:36:32 I have been hired to build a sales team and sell product, and that’s what I intend to do.
    0:36:33 Thanks.
    0:36:36 So much for small talk.
    0:36:39 He proceeded to deliver on his promise.
    0:36:44 The office socializers disliked him for his no-nonsense approach to communication, but
    0:36:46 everyone respected his time.
    0:36:51 He wasn’t rude without reason, but he was direct and kept the people around him focused.
    0:36:58 Some didn’t consider him charismatic, but no one considered him anything less than spectacularly
    0:36:59 effective.
    0:37:04 I remember sitting down in his office for our first one-on-one meeting.
    0:37:10 Fresh off four years of rigorous academic training, I immediately jumped into explaining the prospect
    0:37:16 profiles, elaborate planning I’d developed, responses to date, and so forth and so on.
    0:37:21 I had spent at least two hours preparing to make this first impression a good one.
    0:37:26 He listened with a smile on his face for no more than two minutes and then held up a hand.
    0:37:27 I stopped.
    0:37:31 He laughed in a kind-hearted manner and said, “Tim, I don’t want the story.
    0:37:34 Just tell me what we need to do.”
    0:37:40 Over the following weeks, he trained me to recognize when I was unfocused or focused on the wrong things, which
    0:37:46 meant anything that didn’t move the top two or three clients one step closer to signing a purchase order.
    0:37:49 Our meetings were now no more than five minutes long.
    0:38:01 From this moment forward, resolve to keep those around you focused and avoid all meetings, whether in person or remote, that do not have clear objectives.
    0:38:10 It is possible to do this tactfully, but expect that some time wasters will be offended the first few times their advances are rejected.
    0:38:18 Once it is clear that remaining on task is your policy and not subject to change, they will accept it and move on with life.
    0:38:19 Hard feelings pass.
    0:38:22 Don’t suffer fools or you’ll become one.
    0:38:28 It is your job to train those around you to be effective and efficient.
    0:38:30 No one else will do it for you.
    0:38:33 Here are a few recommendations:
    0:38:34 1.
    0:38:44 Decide that, given the non-urgent nature of most issues, you will steer people toward the following means of communication, in order of preference:
    0:38:47 Email, phone, and in-person meetings.
    0:38:54 If someone proposes a meeting, request an email instead and then use the phone as your fallback offer if need be.
    0:38:58 Cite other immediately pending work tasks as the reason.
    0:38:59 2.
    0:39:03 Respond to voicemail via email whenever possible.
    0:39:05 This trains people to be concise.
    0:39:08 Help them develop the habit.
    0:39:15 Similar to our opening greeting on the phone, email communication should be streamlined to prevent needless back and forth.
    0:39:23 Thus, an email with “Can you meet at 4:00 PM?” would become “Can you meet at 4:00 PM? If so?”
    0:39:27 If not, please advise three other times that work for you.
    0:39:34 This “if/then” structure becomes more important as you check email less often.
    0:39:44 Since I only check email once a week, it is critical that no one needs a “what if” answered or other information within seven days of a given email I send.
    0:39:54 If I suspect that a manufacturing order hasn’t arrived at the shipping facility, for example, I’ll send an email to my shipping facility manager along these lines.
    0:40:00 “Dear Susan, has the new manufacturing shipment arrived? If so, please advise me on…”
    0:40:09 If not, please contact John Doe at 555-5555 or via email at john@doe.com.
    0:40:13 He is also CC’d, and advise on delivery date and tracking.
    0:40:25 John, if there are any issues with the shipment, please coordinate with Susan, reachable at 555-4444, who has the authority to make decisions up to $500 on my behalf.
    0:40:32 “In case of emergency, call me on my cell phone, but I trust you to. Thanks.”
    0:40:40 This prevents most follow-up questions, avoids two separate dialogues, and takes me out of the problem-solving equation.
    0:40:48 “Get into the habit of considering what ‘if/then’ actions can be proposed in any email where you ask a question.”
    0:40:57 “Three. Meetings should only be held to make decisions about a predefined situation, not to define the problem.
    0:41:07 If someone proposes that you meet with them, or set a time to talk on the phone, ask that person to send you an email with an agenda to define the purpose.”
    0:41:16 “That sounds doable. So I can best prepare, can you please send me an email with an agenda, that is, the topics and questions we’ll need to address?
    0:41:19 That would be great. Thanks in advance.”
    0:41:26 “Don’t give them a chance to bail out. The ‘thanks in advance’ before a retort increases your chances of getting the email.”
    0:41:39 “The email medium forces people to define the desired outcome of a meeting or call. Nine times out of ten, a meeting is unnecessary and you can answer the questions, once defined, via email.”
    0:41:52 “Impose this habit on others. I haven’t had an in-person meeting for my business in more than five years, and have had fewer than a dozen conference calls, all lasting less than 30 minutes.”
    0:42:03 4. Speaking of 30 minutes, if you absolutely cannot stop a meeting or call from happening, define the end time.
    0:42:12 Do not leave these discussions open-ended and keep them short. If things are well defined, decisions should not take more than 30 minutes.
    0:42:26 Cite other commitments at odd times to make them more believable, e.g. 320 vs. 330, and force people to focus instead of socializing, commiserating, and digressing.
    0:42:39 If you must join a meeting that is scheduled to last a long time, or that is open-ended, inform the organizer that you would like permission to cover your portion first, as you have a commitment in 15 minutes.
    0:42:45 If you have to, feign an urgent phone call. Get the hell out of there and have someone else update you later.”
    0:42:59 The other option is to be completely transparent and voice your opinion of how unnecessary the meeting is. If you choose this route, be prepared to face fire and offer alternatives.
    0:43:05 5. The cubicle is your temple. Don’t permit casual visitors.
    0:43:13 Some suggest using a clear “do not disturb” sign of some type, but I have found that this is ignored unless you have an office.
    0:43:18 My approach was to put headphones on, even if I wasn’t listening to anything.
    0:43:23 If someone approached me, despite this discouragement, I would pretend to be on the phone.
    0:43:29 I’d put a finger to my lips, say something like, “I hear you,” and then say into the mic, “Can you hold on a second?”
    0:43:33 Next, I’d turn to the invader and say, “Hi, what can I do for you?”
    0:43:42 I wouldn’t let them “get back to me,” but rather force the person to give me a five-second summary and then send me an email if necessary.
    0:43:49 If headphone games aren’t your thing, the reflexive response to an invader should be the same as when answering the cell phone.
    0:43:53 “Hi, invader. I’m right in the middle of something. How can I be of help?”
    0:44:01 If it’s not clear within 30 seconds, ask the person to send you an email about the chosen issue. Do not offer to send them an email first.
    0:44:07 I’ll be happy to help, but I have to finish this first. Can you send me a quick email to remind me?
    0:44:16 If you still cannot deflect an invader, give the person a time limit on your availability, which can also be used for phone conversations.
    0:44:22 Okay, I only have two minutes before a call, but what’s the situation and what can I do to help?
    0:44:30 6. Use the puppy dog clothes to help your superiors and others develop the no-meeting habit.
    0:44:36 The puppy dog clothes in sales is so named because it is based on the pet store sales approach.
    0:44:46 If someone likes a puppy but is hesitant to make the life-altering purchase, just offer to let them take the pup home and bring it back if they change their minds.
    0:44:50 Of course, the return seldom happens.
    0:44:56 The puppy dog clothes is invaluable whenever you face resistance to permanent changes.
    0:45:01 Get your foot in the door with a “let’s just try it once” reversible trial.
    0:45:03 Compare the following:
    0:45:05 “I think you’d love this puppy.
    0:45:10 It will forever add to your responsibilities until he dies ten years from now.
    0:45:16 No more carefree vacations, and you’ll finally get to pick up poop all over the city.
    0:45:17 What do you think?”
    0:45:18 Versus,
    0:45:20 “I think you’d love this puppy.
    0:45:22 Why don’t you just take him home and see what you think?
    0:45:25 You can just bring him back if you change your mind.”
    0:45:30 Now, imagine walking up to your boss in the hallway and clapping a hand on her shoulder.
    0:45:33 “I’d like to go to the meeting, but I have a better idea.
    0:45:39 Let’s never have another one since all we do is waste time and not decide anything useful.”
    0:45:40 Versus,
    0:45:45 “I’d really like to go to the meeting, but I’m totally overwhelmed and really need to get a few important things done.
    0:45:48 Can I sit out just for today?
    0:45:50 I’d be distracted in the meeting otherwise.
    0:45:55 I promise I’ll catch up afterward by reviewing the meeting with colleague X.
    0:45:56 Is that okay?”
    0:46:01 The second set of alternatives seem less permanent, and they’re intended to appear so.
    0:46:08 Repeat this routine and ensure that you achieve more outside of the meeting than the attendees do within it.
    0:46:17 Repeat the disappearing act as often as possible and cite improved productivity to convert this slowly into a permanent routine change.
    0:46:21 “Learn to imitate any good child.
    0:46:23 Just this once.
    0:46:24 Please.
    0:46:26 I promise I’ll do X.”
    0:46:30 Parents fall for it because kids help adults to fool themselves.
    0:46:35 It works with bosses, suppliers, customers, and the rest of the world, too.
    0:46:38 Use it, but don’t fall for it.
    0:46:45 If a boss asks for overtime just this once, he or she will expect it in the future.
    0:46:49 Time consumers.
    0:46:52 Batch and do not falter.
    0:46:56 A schedule defends from chaos and whim.
    0:47:01 Annie Dillard, winner of Pulitzer Prize in Nonfiction, 1975.
    0:47:09 If you have never used a commercial printer before, the pricing and lead times could surprise you.
    0:47:18 Let’s assume it costs $310 and takes one week to print 20 customized t-shirts with four color logos.
    0:47:23 How much and how long does it take to print three of the same t-shirt?
    0:47:25 $110 in one week.
    0:47:27 How is that possible?
    0:47:29 Simple.
    0:47:30 The setup charges don’t change.
    0:47:40 It costs the printer the same amount in materials for plate preparation, $150, and the same in labor to man the press itself, $100.
    0:47:51 The setup is the real-time consumer, and thus the job, despite its small size, needs to be scheduled just like the other, resulting in the same one-week delivery date.
    0:47:54 The lower economy of scale picks up the rest.
    0:48:03 The cost for three shirts is $20 per shirt times three shirts instead of $3 per shirt times 20 shirts.
    0:48:11 The cost and time-effective solution, therefore, is to wait until you have a larger order, an approach called batching.
    0:48:21 Batching is also the solution to our distracting but necessary time consumers, those repetitive tasks that interrupt the most important.
    0:48:31 If you check mail and make bill payments five times a week, it might take 30 minutes per instance and you respond to a total of 20 letters in two and a half hours.
    0:48:39 If you do this once per week instead, it might take 60 minutes total and you still respond to a total of 20 letters.
    0:48:42 People do the former out of fear of emergencies.
    0:48:46 First, there are seldom real emergencies.
    0:48:55 Second, of the urgent communication you will receive, missing a deadline is usually reversible and otherwise costs a minimum to correct.
    0:49:02 There is an inescapable set-up time for all tasks, large or minuscule in scale.
    0:49:06 It is often the same for one as it is for a hundred.
    0:49:14 There is a psychological switching of gears that can require up to 45 minutes to resume a major task that has been interrupted.
    0:49:21 More than a quarter of each 9 to 5 period, 28%, is consumed by such interruptions.
    0:49:25 Jonathan B. Spira and Joshua B. Feintuch
    0:49:33 The Cost of Not Paying Attention: How Interruptions Impact Knowledge Worker Productivity
    0:49:46 This is true of all recurring tasks and is precisely why we have already decided to check email and phone calls twice per day at specific predetermined times, between which we let them accumulate.
    0:49:55 From mid-2004 to 2007, I checked mail no more than once a week, often not for up to four weeks at a time.
    0:50:00 Nothing was irreparable, and nothing cost more than $300 to fix.
    0:50:04 This batching has saved me hundreds of hours of redundant work.
    0:50:06 How much is your time worth?
    0:50:09 Let’s use a hypothetical example.
    0:50:15 1. $20 per hour is how much you are paid or value your time.
    0:50:22 This would be the case, for example, if you are paid $40,000 per year and get two weeks of vacation per year.
    0:50:30 $40,000 divided by 40 hours per week times 50 equals $2,000 equals $20 per hour.
    0:50:44 Estimate your hourly income by cutting the last three zeros off of your annual income and halving the remaining number, e.g., $50,000 a year becomes $25 an hour.
    0:50:59 2. Estimate the amount of time you will save by grouping similar tasks together and batching them, and calculate how much you have earned by multiplying this hour number by your per-hour rate, $20 here.
    0:51:03 One time per week, 10 hours equals $200.
    0:51:08 One time per two weeks, 20 hours equals $400.
    0:51:13 One time per month, 40 hours equals $800.
    0:51:21 3. Test each of the above batching frequencies and determine how much problems cost to fix in each period.
    0:51:26 If the cost is less than the above dollar amounts, batch even further apart.
    0:51:53 For example, using our above math, if I check email once per week and that results in an average loss of two sales per week, totaling $80 in lost profit, I will continue checking once per week because $200, 10 hours of time, minus $80 is still a $120 net gain, not to mention the enormous benefits of completing other main tasks in those 10 hours.
    0:52:07 If you calculate the financial and emotional benefits of completing just one main tasks, such as landing a major client or completing a life-changing trip, the value of batching is much more than the per-hour savings.
    0:52:15 If the problems cost more than hours saved, scale back to the next less frequent batch schedule.
    0:52:25 In this case, I would drop from once per week to twice per week, not daily, and attempt to fix the system so that I can return to once per week.
    0:52:29 Do not work harder when the solution is working smarter.
    0:52:37 I have batched both personal and business tasks further and further apart as I’ve realized just how few real problems come up.
    0:53:01 Some of my scheduled batches in 2007 were email, Mondays 10:00 AM, phone completely eliminated, laundry every other Sunday at 10:00 PM, credit cards and bills, most are on automatic payment, but I check balances every second Monday after email, strength training every fourth day for 30 minutes, etc.
    0:53:15 The vision is really about empowering workers, giving them all the information about what’s going on so they can do a lot more than they’ve done in the past.
    0:53:22 Bill Gates, co-founder of Microsoft, richest man in the world.
    0:53:31 Empowerment failure refers to being unable to accomplish a task without first obtaining permission or information.
    0:53:39 It is often a case of being micromanaged or micromanaging someone else, both of which consume your time.
    0:53:49 For the employee, the goal is to have full access to necessary information and as much independent decision-making ability as possible.
    0:54:00 For the entrepreneur, the goal is to grant as much information and independent decision-making ability to employees or contractors as possible.
    0:54:13 Customer service is often the epitome of empowerment failure, and a personal example from BrainQuicken illustrates just how serious, but easily solved, the problem can be.
    0:54:22 In 2002, I had outsourced customer service for order tracking and returns, but still handled product-related questions myself.
    0:54:23 The result?
    0:54:35 I received more than 200 emails per day, spending all hours between 9 to 5 responding to them, and the volume was growing at a rate of more than 10% per week.
    0:54:43 I had to cancel advertising and limit shipments, as additional customer service would have been the final nail in the coffin.
    0:54:45 It wasn’t a scalable model.
    0:54:48 Remember this word, as it will be important later.
    0:54:54 It wasn’t scalable, because there was an information and decision bottleneck.
    0:54:55 Me.
    0:54:56 The clincher?
    0:55:08 The bulk of the email that landed in my inbox was not product-related at all, but requests from the outsourced customer service reps seeking permission for different actions.
    0:55:12 The customer claims he didn’t receive the shipment.
    0:55:13 What should we do?
    0:55:16 The customer had a bottle held at customs.
    0:55:19 Can we reship to a U.S. address?
    0:55:23 The customer needs the product for a competition in two days.
    0:55:27 Can we ship overnight, and if so, how much should we charge?
    0:55:28 It was endless.
    0:55:38 Hundreds upon hundreds of different situations made it impractical to write a manual, and I didn’t have the time or experience to do so regardless.
    0:55:41 Fortunately, someone did have the experience.
    0:55:44 The outsourced reps themselves.
    0:55:54 I sent one single email to all the supervisors that immediately turned 200 emails per day into fewer than 20 emails per week.
    0:55:55 Hi, all.
    0:56:00 I would like to establish a new policy for my account that overrides all others.
    0:56:02 Keep the customer happy.
    0:56:09 If it is a problem that takes less than $100 to fix, use your judgment and fix it yourself.
    0:56:18 This is official written permission and a request to fix all problems that cost under $100 without contacting me.
    0:56:20 I am no longer your customer.
    0:56:23 My customers are your customer.
    0:56:25 Don’t ask me for permission.
    0:56:29 Do what you think is right, and we’ll make adjustments as we go along.
    0:56:30 Thank you.
    0:56:31 Tim
    0:56:41 Upon close analysis, it became clear that more than 90% of the issues that prompted email could be resolved for less than $20.
    0:56:52 I reviewed the financial results of their independent decision-making on a weekly basis for four weeks, then a monthly basis, and then on a quarterly basis.
    0:57:02 It’s amazing how someone’s IQ seems to double as soon as you give them responsibility and indicate that you trust them.
    0:57:07 The first month cost perhaps $200 more than if I had been micromanaging.
    0:57:32 In the meantime, I saved more than 100 hours of my own time per month, customers received faster service, returns dropped to less than 3%, the industry average is 10-15%, and outsourcers spent less time on my account, all of which resulted in rapid growth, higher profit margins, and happier people on all sides.
    0:57:34 People are smarter than you think.
    0:57:37 Give them a chance to prove themselves.
    0:57:46 If you are a micromanaged employee, have a heart-to-heart with your boss and explain that you want to be more productive and interrupt him or her less.
    0:57:53 I hate that I have to interrupt you so much and pull you away from more important things I know you have on your plate.
    0:57:58 I was doing some reading and had some thoughts on how I might be more productive.
    0:58:00 Do you have a second?
    0:58:10 Before this conversation, develop a number of “rules” like the previous example that would allow you to work more autonomously with less approval-seeking.
    0:58:16 The boss can review the outcome of your decisions on a daily or weekly basis in the initial stages.
    0:58:23 Suggest a one-week trial and end with, “I’d like to try it. Does that sound like something we could try for a week?”
    0:58:26 Or my personal favorite, “Is that reasonable?”
    0:58:30 It’s hard for people to label things unreasonable.
    0:58:35 Realize that bosses are supervisors, not slave masters.
    0:58:48 Establish yourself as a consistent challenger of the status quo and most people will learn to avoid challenging you, particularly if it is in the interest of higher per-hour productivity.
    0:59:00 If you are a micromanaging entrepreneur, realize that even if you can do something better than the rest of the world, it doesn’t mean that’s what you should be doing if it’s part of the minutia.
    0:59:04 “Empower others to act without interrupting you.”
    0:59:07 Set the rules in your favor.
    0:59:09 Limit access to your time.
    0:59:13 Force people to define the requests before spending time with them.
    0:59:19 And batch routine menial tasks to prevent postponement of more important projects.
    0:59:21 Do not let people interrupt you.
    0:59:25 Find your focus and you’ll find your lifestyle.
    0:59:30 The bottom line is that you have only the rights you fight for.
    0:59:42 In the next section, Automation, we’ll see how the new rich create management-free money and eliminate the largest remaining obstacle of all: themselves.
    0:59:44 Q&A.
    0:59:46 Questions and actions.
    0:59:53 People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don’t realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.
    0:59:56 Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes.
    1:00:03 Blaming idiots for interruptions is like blaming clowns for scaring children.
    1:00:04 They can’t help it.
    1:00:06 It’s their nature.
    1:00:13 Then again, I had, who am I kidding, and have, on occasion, been known to create interruptions out of thin air.
    1:00:18 If you’re anything like me, that makes us both occasional idiots.
    1:00:21 Learn to recognize and fight the interruption impulse.
    1:00:27 This is infinitely easier when you have a set of rules, responses, and routines to follow.
    1:00:37 It is your job to prevent yourself and others from letting the unnecessary and unimportant prevent the start-to-finish completion of the important.
    1:00:49 This chapter differs from the previous in that the necessary actions, due to the inclusion of examples and templates, have been presented throughout from start to finish.
    1:00:53 This Q&A will thus be a summary rather than a repetition.
    1:00:59 The devil is in the details, so be sure to re-listen to this chapter for the specifics.
    1:01:04 The 50,000-foot review is as follows:
    1:01:12 1. Create systems to limit your availability via email and phone and deflect inappropriate contact.
    1:01:19 2. Get the auto-response and voicemail script in place now and master the various methods of evasion.
    1:01:23 3. Replace the habit of “How are you?” with “How can I help you?”
    1:01:27 4. Get specific and remember “No stories.”
    1:01:29 5. Focus on immediate actions.
    1:01:32 6. Set and practice interruption-killing policies.
    1:01:35 7. Avoid meetings whenever possible.
    1:01:39 8. Use email instead of face-to-face meetings to solve problems.
    1:01:41 8. Beg off going.
    1:01:44 9. This can be accomplished through the puppy-dog close.
    1:01:48 9. If meetings are unavoidable, keep the following in mind:
    1:01:50 10. Go in with a clear set of objectives.
    1:01:53 10. Set and end time or leave early.
    1:02:01 2. Batch activities to limit setup cost and provide more time for dream-line milestones.
    1:02:05 What can I routinize by batching?
    1:02:12 That is, what tasks, whether laundry, groceries, mail, payments, or sales reporting, for example,
    1:02:18 can I allot to a specific time each day, week, month, quarter, or year,
    1:02:24 so that I don’t squander time repeating them more often than is absolutely necessary?
    1:02:32 3. Set or request autonomous rules and guidelines with occasional review of results.
    1:02:38 4. Eliminate the decision bottleneck for all things that are non-fatal if misperformed.
    1:02:44 5. If an employee, believe in yourself enough to ask for more independence on a trial basis,
    1:02:52 have practical rules prepared, and ask the boss for the sale after surprising him or her with an impromptu presentation.
    1:02:57 6. Remember the puppy-dog close. Make it a one-time trial and reversible.
    1:03:02 7. For the entrepreneur or manager, give others the chance to prove themselves.
    1:03:08 The likelihood of irreversible or expensive problems is minimal, and the time savings are guaranteed.
    1:03:14 7. Remember, profit is only profitable to the extent that you can use it.
    1:03:16 For that, you need time.
    1:03:25 8. Tools and tricks. Eliminating paper distractions. Capturing everything.
    1:03:28 8. Evernote. Evernote. Evernote.com
    1:03:37 This is perhaps the most impressive tool I’ve found in the last year, introduced to me by some of the most productive technologists in the world.
    1:03:50 Evernote has eliminated more than 90% of the paper in my life and eliminated nearly all of the multiple tabs I used to leave open in web browsers, both of which distracted me to no end.
    1:03:54 9. It can clear out your entire office clutter in one to three hours.
    1:04:05 10. Evernote allows you to easily capture information from anywhere using whatever device is at hand, and everything is then searchable, read findable, from anywhere.
    1:04:16 10. I use it to take photographs of everything I might want to remember or find later: business cards, handwritten notes, wine labels, receipts, whiteboard sessions, and more.
    1:04:25 11. Evernote identifies the text in all of these pictures automatically, so it’s all searchable, whether from an iPhone, your laptop, or the web.
    1:04:36 Just as one example, I can store and find the contact information from any business card in seconds, often using the built-in iSight camera on Mac to capture it,
    1:04:43 rather than spending hours inputting it all into contacts or searching through email for that lost phone number.
    1:04:48 It’s mind-numbing how much time this saves.
    1:04:55 Scan all agreements, paper articles, etc. that would otherwise sit in file folders or on my desk.
    1:05:12 The best I’ve found, which scans all of it directly to Evernote in seconds with one button.
    1:05:21 Take snapshots of websites, capturing all text and links, so that I can read them offline when traveling or doing later research.
    1:05:27 Get rid of all those scattered bookmarks, favorites, and open tabs.
    1:05:31 Screening and Avoiding Unwanted Calls
    1:05:35 Grand Central
    1:05:37 Grand Central
    1:05:49 In a world where your physical address will change more often than your cell phone number and email, it can be disastrous if your number becomes public or gets in the wrong hands.
    1:05:58 Enter Grand Central, which will give you a number with the area code of your choosing that then forwards to your own phone.
    1:06:03 I now give a Grand Central number to anyone besides family and close friends.
    1:06:05 Some of the benefits:
    1:06:12 Identify any incoming number as unwanted and that caller will then hear a “number not in service” message when attempting to call you.
    1:06:26 Customize your voicemail message to individual callers – spouse, boss, colleague, client, etc. – and listen in on messages as they’re being left so you can “pick up” if the message is worth the interruption.
    1:06:29 Call recording is also an option.
    1:06:38 Use an area code outside of your hometown to prevent people and companies from finding and misusing addresses you’d prefer to keep private.
    1:06:45 Establish “do not disturb” hours when calls are routed directly to voicemail with no ring.
    1:06:51 Have voicemails sent to your cell phone as SMS – text messages.
    1:06:59 U-mail – another option – can also transcribe voicemails and send them to your phone as text messages.
    1:07:03 Getting calls while stuck in a time-wasting meeting? No problem.
    1:07:09 Respond to voicemails via SMS during the meeting so you’re not stuck returning calls afterward.
    1:07:15 One shot, one kill scheduling without e-mail back and forth.
    1:07:20 Few things are as time-consuming as scheduling via e-mail.
    1:07:23 Person A – how about Tuesday at 3 p.m.?
    1:07:25 Person B – I can make it.
    1:07:28 Person C – I have a meeting. How about Thursday?
    1:07:32 Person D – I’m on a con call. How about 10 a.m. on Friday?
    1:07:38 Use these tools to make scheduling simple and fast instead of another part-time job.
    1:07:49 Doodle – doodle.com – the best free tool I’ve found for herding cats, multiple people, for scheduling without excessive e-mail.
    1:07:55 Create and poll in 30 seconds with the proposed options and forward a link to everyone invited.
    1:07:59 Check back a few hours later and you’ll have the best time for the most people.
    1:08:03 Time Driver – timedriver.com
    1:08:12 Let colleagues and clients self-schedule with you based on your availability, which is determined by integration with Outlook or Google Calendar.
    1:08:19 Embed a “Schedule Now” button in e-mail messages and you’ll never have to tell people when you can make a call or meeting.
    1:08:22 Let them see what’s open and choose.
    1:08:26 Choosing the best e-mail batching times.
    1:08:31 Zobni – zobni.com/special
    1:08:38 Zobni – inbox spelled backwards – is a free program for putting Outlook on steroids.
    1:08:45 It offers many features, but the most relevant to this chapter is its ability to identify hotspots,
    1:08:50 or periods of time when you receive the bulk of e-mail from your most important contacts.
    1:08:58 These “hotspots” are batching times that will enable you to keep critical contacts – clients, bosses, etc. – smiling,
    1:09:03 even while you reduce checking e-mail to one to three times per day.
    1:09:12 It will also populate your contacts automatically by pulling phone numbers, addresses, etc. from separate e-mail buried in the inbox.
    1:09:17 Emailing without entering the black hole of the inbox
    1:09:22 Don’t enter the black hole of the inbox off-hours because you’re afraid you’ll forget something.
    1:09:30 Use these services instead to keep focused, whether on completing a critical project or simply enjoying the weekend.
    1:09:40 Jot, J-O-T-T dot com. Capture thoughts, create to-dos, and set reminders with a simple, toll-free phone call.
    1:09:50 The service transcribes your message – 15 to 30 seconds – and e-mails it to whomever you want, including yourself, or to your Google Calendar for automatic scheduling.
    1:10:03 Jot also enables you to post voice message links to Twitter – twitter.com, Facebook – facebook.com, and other services that tend to consume hours if you visit the sites themselves.
    1:10:13 CopyTalk, copytalk, copytalk.com, Dictate any message up to four minutes and have the transcription e-mailed to you within hours.
    1:10:17 Excellent for brainstorming, and the accuracy is astounding.
    1:10:22 Preventing web browsing completely.
    1:10:24 Freedom.
    1:10:31 iBiblio.org/fred/freedom/
    1:10:42 Freedom is a free application that disables networking on an Apple computer for 1 to 480 minutes, up to 8 hours, at a time.
    1:10:49 Freedom will free you from the distractions of the Internet, allowing you the focus to get real work done.
    1:10:51 Freedom enforces freedom.
    1:10:57 A reboot is the only method for turning freedom off before the time limit you’ve set for yourself.
    1:11:02 The hassle of rebooting means you’re less likely to cheat, and you’ll be more productive.
    1:11:08 Experiment with the software for short periods of time at first – 30 to 60 minutes.
    1:11:11 Comfort Challenge.
    1:11:14 Revisit the terrible twos.
    1:11:15 Two days.
    1:11:22 For the next two days, do as all good two-year-olds do and say no to all requests.
    1:11:24 Don’t be selective.
    1:11:28 Refuse to do all things that won’t get you immediately fired.
    1:11:29 Be selfish.
    1:11:38 As with the last exercise, the objective isn’t an outcome – in this case, eliminating just those things that waste time – but the process.
    1:11:41 Getting comfortable with saying no.
    1:11:44 Potential questions to decline include the following:
    1:11:46 Do you have a minute?
    1:11:49 Do you want to see a movie tonight or tomorrow?
    1:11:51 Can you help me with “X”?
    1:11:55 No should be your default answer to all requests.
    1:11:58 Don’t make up elaborate lies, or you’ll get called on them.
    1:12:05 A simple “I really can’t, sorry, I’ve got too much on my plate right now” will do as a catch-all response.
    1:12:09 Lifestyle design in action.
    1:12:12 Batching Tool: P.O. Box
    1:12:21 This might be stating the obvious, but one easy way to encourage batching of your mail is to use a P.O. Box versus getting mail delivered to your house.
    1:12:32 We got our P.O. Box to limit access to our physical address online, but it also encourages you to get the mail less and deal with it in batch.
    1:12:39 Our post office has recycling bins, so at least 60% of the mail doesn’t even come home with us.
    1:12:53 For a while I was only getting and managing the mail once a week, and I found not only did it take less time overall, I did a better job managing it and getting it out of the way, versus looking at it and setting it aside for future follow-up.
    1:12:55 Laura Turner
    1:13:03 For families, the four-hour work week doesn’t have to mean four months on a sailboat in the Caribbean unless that’s their dream.
    1:13:13 But even the simple ideal of having time to take a walk in the park every evening, or spending weekends together, makes taking actions to implement this program worthwhile.
    1:13:16 There are many different approaches for making this work.
    1:13:22 Kids have to promise they won’t bother mommy in the evening while she works on the computer.
    1:13:25 My husband watches the kids in the evening.
    1:13:29 Both parents make plans once a week to have someone take care of the kids, etc.
    1:13:35 Then close with the huge payoff for the family of having more time to spend with each other.
    1:13:37 Adrienne Jenkins
    1:13:46 Why not combine a mini-retirement with dentistry or medical geo-arbitrage and finance your trip with the savings?
    1:13:54 I lived in Thailand for four months and got root canal treatment and a crown for one-third of the price that it costs in Australia.
    1:14:05 There are many upmarket clinics set up for expats and health travelers in Thailand, Philippines, Vietnam, Goa, etc., with English-speaking dentists.
    1:14:09 And in Europe, many people go to Poland or Hungary.
    1:14:17 To research, just Google “dentists” and the country and you will come across practices advertising to foreigners.
    1:14:23 Talk to expats when you’re in the country or on online chat forums for recommendations.
    1:14:31 Now I’m in Australia, I still combine my travels with annual dentist check-ups, and the savings often finance my airfare.
    1:14:36 Even between developed countries, there are significant cost differences.
    1:14:42 For example, France is far cheaper than the UK, and Australia is cheaper than the U.S.
    1:14:57 Note from Tim, learn more about the incredible world of medical tourism and geo-arbitrage at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/medical_tourism.
    1:15:03 Even large insurers like Aetna often cover overseas treatments and surgeries.
    1:15:05 Anonymous.
    1:15:12 Hey guys, this is Tim again, just one more thing before you take off, and that is Five Bullet Friday.
    1:15:17 Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little fun before the weekend?
    1:15:24 Between one and a half and two million people subscribe to my free newsletter, my super short newsletter, called Five Bullet Friday.
    1:15:26 And easy to cancel.
    1:15:34 It is basically a half page that I send out every Friday to share the coolest things I’ve found or discovered or have started exploring over that week.
    1:15:36 It’s kind of like my diary of cool things.
    1:15:48 It often includes articles I’m reading, books I’m reading, albums perhaps, gadgets, gizmos, all sorts of tech tricks and so on that get sent to me by my friends, including a lot of podcast guests.
    1:15:55 And these strange esoteric things end up in my field, and then I test them, and then I share them with you.
    1:16:03 So if that sounds fun, again, it’s very short, a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend, something to think about.
    1:16:13 If you’d like to try it out, just go to tim.blog/friday, type that into your browser, tim.blog/friday, drop in your email, and you’ll get the very next one.
    1:16:15 Thanks for listening.
    1:16:21 I am always on the hunt for protein sources that don’t require sacrifices in taste or nutrition.
    1:16:22 I don’t want to eat sawdust.
    1:16:26 I also don’t want a candy bar that’s disguised as a protein bar.
    1:16:29 And that’s why I love the protein bars from today’s sponsor, David.
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    1:16:37 I throw them in my bag whenever I am in doubt that I might be able to get a good source of protein.
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    1:16:53 I was actually first introduced to them by my friend Peter Atiyah, MD, who is their chief science officer.
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    1:17:00 And on top of that, David tastes great.
    1:17:02 Their bars come in six delicious flavors.
    1:17:03 They’re all worth trying.
    1:17:11 And as I mentioned before, I will grab a few of those from running out the door if I think I might end up in a situation where I can’t get sufficient protein.
    1:17:12 And why is that important?
    1:17:19 Well, adequate protein intake is critical for building and preserving muscle mass, especially as we age.
    1:17:26 And one of the biggest things that you want to pay attention to is counteracting sarcopenia, age-related muscle loss.
    1:17:28 And for that, you need enough protein.
    1:17:30 When in doubt, up your protein.
    1:17:32 Protein is also the most satiating macronutrient.
    1:17:33 What does that mean?
    1:17:40 It means that protein, carbohydrates, fat, and protein, inhibits your appetite while also feeding all the things you want to feed,
    1:17:43 which helps you consume fewer calories throughout the day.
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    1:18:23 In the last handful of years, I’ve become very interested in environmental toxins, avoiding microplastics, and many other commonly found compounds all over the place.
    1:18:25 One place I looked is in the kitchen.
    1:18:29 Many people don’t realize just how toxic their cookware is or can be.
    1:18:42 A lot of nonstick pans, practically all of them, can release harmful forever chemicals, PFAS, in other words, spelled P-F-A-S, into your food, your home, and then ultimately, that ends up in your body.
    1:18:43 Teflon is a prime example of this.
    1:18:47 It is still the forever chemical that most companies are using.
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    1:19:10 I was very skeptical.
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    1:19:15 It’s supposed to be nonstick.
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    1:19:17 I’m going to test it with two things.
    1:19:26 I’m going to test it with scrambled eggs in the morning, because eggs are always a disaster in anything that isn’t nonstick with the toxic coating.
    1:19:31 And then I’m going to test it with a steak sear, because I want to see how much it retains heat.
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    1:19:44 The Titanium Always Pan Pro has become my go to pan in the kitchen.
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    1:20:57 Transcription by CastingWords

    This time around, we have a bit of a different format, featuring the book that started it all for me, The 4-Hour Workweek. Readers and listeners often ask me what I would change or update, but an equally interesting question is: what wouldn’t I change? What stands the test of time and hasn’t lost any potency? This episode features two of the most important chapters from the audiobook of The 4-Hour Workweek. The chapters push you to defend your scarce attention—one by saying no to people, the other by saying no to excess information.

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    For show notes and past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast.

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  • Yum! Brands, the World’s Largest Restaurant Company, Advances AI Adoption – Ep. 254

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  • The Software Crisis Behind America’s Infrastructure

    AI transcript
    0:00:02 – We have a software crisis.
    0:00:04 – There’s just no time to wait.
    0:00:05 If you don’t have that sense of urgency,
    0:00:07 we’re not gonna accomplish what we need to do.
    0:00:09 – You can build the most advanced equipment,
    0:00:12 you can produce it at the largest scale possible,
    0:00:14 but if you can’t get it where it’s needed,
    0:00:16 when it’s needed, it doesn’t exist.
    0:00:18 – There’s always been collective defense,
    0:00:20 but not necessarily collective logistics.
    0:00:22 Any one nation can’t do it alone.
    0:00:24 – Whatever we’re modernizing now,
    0:00:25 this is not gonna be the last update.
    0:00:26 Software’s never complete.
    0:00:29 Software is moving incredibly fast.
    0:00:30 The best type of board you fight
    0:00:33 is one that you don’t have to fight at all.
    0:00:35 – The largest companies in the world today
    0:00:37 are software companies.
    0:00:39 And many of these companies have become household names
    0:00:42 for developing fun software.
    0:00:44 Software that powers the games we play,
    0:00:45 the apps we scroll,
    0:00:48 software that helps run our lives and manage our work.
    0:00:52 But the world also needs serious software.
    0:00:54 The kind of software that runs the autonomous vehicles
    0:00:55 in San Francisco,
    0:00:58 the software that ensures planes take off and land safely,
    0:01:00 the software that ensures critical supplies,
    0:01:03 make it to our shores and equally the front lines
    0:01:06 of our military, even in contested environments.
    0:01:09 The challenge, across the commercial sector
    0:01:10 and the public sector,
    0:01:14 much of this serious software is built on legacy technology.
    0:01:17 And with the world moving at the speed of software,
    0:01:20 our infrastructure gets more brittle with each passing year.
    0:01:23 When it breaks, it causes inconveniences at best,
    0:01:26 and tragedies at worst.
    0:01:27 But here is the good news.
    0:01:29 Software continues to eat the world,
    0:01:32 and the brightest minds are increasingly interested
    0:01:35 in solving these serious problems.
    0:01:36 So in today’s episode,
    0:01:38 recorded live at our American Dynamism Summit
    0:01:41 in the heart of Washington, DC,
    0:01:43 we sit down with Philip Buchendorf,
    0:01:45 and recently retired Lieutenant General,
    0:01:47 Leonard J. Kaczynski.
    0:01:50 Philip is the co-founder and CEO of Airspace Intelligence,
    0:01:54 a company working to address the software crisis across some
    0:01:58 of the country’s most critical public and private sector institutions,
    0:02:00 from air traffic to defense.
    0:02:04 Lieutenant General Kaczynski is ASI’s Chief Strategy Officer
    0:02:08 and the former Director of Logistics for the Joint Staff,
    0:02:12 spending over three decades of leadership in air mobility and logistics,
    0:02:16 seeing firsthand what consequences we face if logistics are overlooked.
    0:02:17 It’s just like oxygen.
    0:02:21 It’s fine up until you don’t have it and then it becomes a concern.
    0:02:23 Together with our very own Leila Hay,
    0:02:27 A16Z’s go-to-market partner focused on American dynamism,
    0:02:31 the group explores the challenge of hardening America’s logistical network,
    0:02:36 but also how the public and private sectors can join forces via dual-use software,
    0:02:41 and the modernization and risk posture that we need from governing agencies.
    0:02:44 So what’s at stake if we don’t get this right?
    0:02:47 Listen in to find out.
    0:02:51 As a reminder, the content here is for informational purposes only,
    0:02:54 should not be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice,
    0:02:56 or be used to evaluate any investment or security,
    0:03:01 and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any A16Z fund.
    0:03:06 Please note that A16Z and its affiliates may also maintain investments in the companies discussed
    0:03:07 in this podcast.
    0:03:09 For more details, including a link to our investments,
    0:03:12 please see A16Z.com/disclosures.
    0:03:20 Philip, I’d love to start things off with your story.
    0:03:24 On your ASI company page, and I quote, it says,
    0:03:29 “12 years ago you were frustrated by Germany’s stagnant approach to national security and its
    0:03:33 economic degrowth mindset.” Tell us about that moment in your life and why you came to America.
    0:03:38 Grew up in Germany, spent some time in the UK, and then pretty much after college.
    0:03:43 So this is about 2011, 2012. I learned to basically figure out like,
    0:03:44 “Hey, what am I going to do in my twenties?”
    0:03:48 I knew I want to be in a fast-paced, demanding environment.
    0:03:53 But what I found in Europe was most of my friends just wanted to party.
    0:03:59 Germany just decided to pull out a nuclear energy to become fully dependent on cheap Russian gas.
    0:04:05 And then the top 5% in my friends and social network glorified consulting to go into consulting.
    0:04:11 At the same time, the government made it as hard as possible to build anything from starting a company
    0:04:18 to venture capital. At the same time, while all that kind of happened and while I observed that and
    0:04:23 internalized it, I heard about Silicon Valley. And I was like, that sounds like an interesting place.
    0:04:29 It sounds like everyone is just obsessed with building and technology. And so a friend of mine and I,
    0:04:34 we basically traveled to Palo Alto, stayed in a hacker house for the first three years.
    0:04:41 I slept on bunk beds and ate frozen food from Trader Joe’s, but it was the most exciting environment
    0:04:45 to be in. Everyone was building in that hacker house. Everyone was thinking startups and technology.
    0:04:51 And fast forward, I now probably spend nearly as much time or even more time in the US than I did in
    0:04:58 Germany. Our second daughter was just born here in DC last week. In many ways, I lived the American dream.
    0:05:03 Everything that I did, everything that I learned, none of this could have been built, I would say,
    0:05:09 somewhere else. It was the ecosystem, the ethos, the energy, the people that enabled that. And I’m very,
    0:05:16 very grateful, but also determined that that was very much the right decision on where to go.
    0:05:21 I love that. You actually started your career in the world of autonomy and autonomous vehicles.
    0:05:24 Can you talk about your career journey there and what brought you to ASI?
    0:05:30 Yeah. I mean, when KD, Lucas and I started ASI, I would say we were kind of the ultimate outsiders.
    0:05:36 We weren’t pilots. We were not in defense before. We were not logisticians. We worked on autonomous
    0:05:43 driving. And so this is around 2017, 2018. Autonomous driving was very popular, very hot. And while many
    0:05:48 liked that, we didn’t. It felt overly crowded. And we started this company with a simple question,
    0:05:54 which is what are other modes of transportation that require better software. And the first six
    0:05:58 months of ASI, we went to operation centers and wanted to understand what’s the state of software,
    0:06:03 what’s the state of technology, no matter if that is in maritime or in air operation centers.
    0:06:08 And I would say to some extent we expected or hope to see science fiction. What we saw was like the most
    0:06:15 ancient software possible. And that very much made it very, very obvious to start this company. It was a
    0:06:22 mission to enable the kind of world’s most critical operations and optimize the most valuable assets and
    0:06:25 infrastructure that we have as a country. And that’s how we got started.
    0:06:32 Fascinating. Leo, I’d love to hear about you. I know that recently in the Joint Chiefs serving as
    0:06:36 the Director of Logistics, Three Star General, you just retired. What brought you to ASI?
    0:06:43 Yeah. So I spent over 30 years of my career in the military, starting with air mobility operations,
    0:06:47 and then the last seven years, really logistics. So after I retired, I got the advice to kind of give
    0:06:51 yourself about six months to figure out what’s next after doing something for that long. Although I knew
    0:06:55 what I was passionate about, national security, logistics optimization type things. And I had a
    0:07:00 chance over that six months to meet different companies, see different technologies, and see
    0:07:06 a lot of things going on there. But when I met Philip and the team at ASI, something unique and something,
    0:07:12 I guess, compelling to me. One was, while distribution platforms and planes and ships are all quite
    0:07:17 important, it really comes down to the data. To be able to access that data, to be able to optimize and
    0:07:20 figure out what we need to do. That was something I’d say struggled with in the Department of Defense,
    0:07:25 to be able to just access and then to be able to understand and be able to really optimize the
    0:07:30 things we need to do now in the future. So the combination of that piece being an exciting startup,
    0:07:35 being exciting, not just support the military, but also the whole commercial sector, which is
    0:07:40 hugely important for both. Absolutely. And can you tell us a little bit more about your career prior
    0:07:45 to ASI? Sure. I started off actually was initially going to be an engineer. I went to graduate school
    0:07:50 for industrial engineering, optimization type things, neural networks back 30 plus years ago,
    0:07:56 before we really had processing power to do that. Then quickly went into pilot training and then flew
    0:08:02 mobility planes for many years. But last really seven years or eight years ago, my first real foray into
    0:08:07 like really broader logistics, I was a director of logistics for US Africa Command out of Stuttgart,
    0:08:12 Germany. And that was also during the pandemic. But just working with Department of Defense logistics
    0:08:16 and infrastructure, trying to move around Africa, just the size and scope. And then you add on the
    0:08:21 pandemic and then went to Japan for command assignment, then came back to the joint staff as a director for
    0:08:28 logistics with Ukraine going on, support for Israel, everything else, and just realizing challenges with
    0:08:33 our defense industrial-based challenges with what we have. And really one of the main efforts there was really that data
    0:08:39 software piece, which we just weren’t very good at trying hard, but had a lot of catching up to do in the
    0:08:45 Department of Defense. Makes a lot of sense. So you’ve been all over the world, and we’re just seeing these common core
    0:08:53 challenges across everywhere you were. A lot of it is around data and software. Well, I’d love to kick off and first talk about the air
    0:08:59 domain. So obviously, ASI got its start in the aviation space. It’s an area where we’ve seen a lot of
    0:09:05 challenges. On the one hand, we as consumers are told that flying is the safest mode of transport, and
    0:09:11 statistically that’s correct. On the other hand, we’re seeing headlines every day. We’re seeing news about air
    0:09:18 traffic control shortages, staffing challenges. Can you just help us paint a picture of the aviation industry and what this
    0:09:22 data play is? First of all, it is definitely by far still the safest domain, right? And mode of
    0:09:29 transportation. But we’re fundamentally looking at three different problems. First one is staffing. So
    0:09:34 there’s a significant staffing shortage right now in the industry. Why is that? You’ve seen a lot of
    0:09:41 retirements throughout the COVID pandemic. Training was not happening at the same speed during the COVID
    0:09:47 pandemic. I would say in general, more broadly beyond air traffic control, the industry might have also lost
    0:09:52 the ability to attract the very, very best talent. And we can talk more about what that also meant for
    0:09:58 software. So we have a staffing shortage on one hand, then we equally have a software crisis. We got
    0:10:04 legacy software that is filtering, that is falling apart. Whenever it happens, you have these massive
    0:10:11 outages that are incredibly consequential to the entire industry. And then you got very outdated
    0:10:17 infrastructure. I would say what is not talked about enough is how they are actually all interconnected.
    0:10:23 Let me give you an example. Staffing on software go hand in hand. If you have better software that is
    0:10:29 much more intuitive, you can train people much faster. Even more, if you have software that is
    0:10:35 supporting the operator, that operator is a lot more productive. You’re minimizing workload. If you
    0:10:41 don’t have to do 10,000 clicks, but just a few, or you have AI that is assisting you in your decision-making,
    0:10:46 it can be much, much more productive. And then, even more, that is leading to second-order consequences.
    0:10:49 If you’re increasing productivity, that means you can actually pay people more,
    0:10:55 right? And that means more people want to operate or work in the field. And so I think what is not
    0:11:02 considered enough is how staffing and infrastructure are fundamentally actually software problems. You can’t
    0:11:08 separate these three areas and look at them in a kind of an isolated way. Software is eating the world,
    0:11:14 and that is very much true for this domain. And I think internalizing that, and as there’s a mandate
    0:11:20 to modernize now, and pull this sector and this industry forward, like looking at it through the
    0:11:23 software lens is absolutely critical. And I think some of that is happening.
    0:11:28 And it sounds like there are all of these challenges, but they’re sort of being looked at in silos. It’s like
    0:11:32 people are trying to say there’s a people problem here, there’s an infrastructure problem here,
    0:11:37 there’s a tech problem here, but actually these things are all connected. And if we can modernize
    0:11:39 them, that’s how we’re going to be able to move faster.
    0:11:44 Absolutely. And you’re training a new generation, right? If you’re training a 25-year-old
    0:11:50 air traffic controller, like that individual grew up with iPad, Snapchat, etc., right? Google is using
    0:11:55 Google Maps when they drive a car, right? The generation that has retired or is about to retire,
    0:11:59 they grew up with IBM green screens. Like they are familiar on how to use that technology. They used
    0:12:05 that technology for the last 30 years. But the new generation that is being trained now,
    0:12:10 they’re not familiar with those legacy tools. And I think it’s absolutely essential that software
    0:12:16 is being modernized and is being brought up to speed what people are used to use from a software
    0:12:17 quality perspective.
    0:12:22 And actually, I’d love to double-click on that. We’re here at the American Dynamism Summit in
    0:12:28 Washington, D.C. We all are grappling with the fact that there was a tragic accident here in our
    0:12:32 city just a couple months ago. A commercial airline collided with a military copter. Philip,
    0:12:38 I believe you were at Reagan National Airport at the moment that that happened. People assume that good
    0:12:42 safety records equate with good technology, but it sounds like we’re actually dealing with a lot of legacy
    0:12:45 technology. Can you help us understand what that looks like today?
    0:12:50 The way I would frame it is it’s very much a philosophy problem. The philosophy on
    0:12:55 what software should look like might be a bit broken. And I think it boils down to three issues.
    0:13:02 The first one is software and compute are very much connected. So what does that mean? If you have
    0:13:08 software systems that are deeply coupled with the compute power, it’s very hard to modernize anything.
    0:13:14 Specifically, if you’re dealing with an industry where you have facilities all over the country.
    0:13:20 So you cannot just launch an update over the year and all the software is updated. That doesn’t work.
    0:13:26 No, you would literally have to go from facility to update the software or patch things if that is needed.
    0:13:30 And then every single time you’re running at risk, it’s like, okay, can compute actually handle that
    0:13:35 new software update? So the first part that really has to happen is when we think about modernization,
    0:13:40 it’s like, how do we separate software and compute? It’s essential. Because again, whatever we’re
    0:13:44 modernizing now, this is not going to be the last update. Software is never complete. Software is
    0:13:48 moving incredibly fast. So the separation of software and compute, absolutely essential.
    0:13:55 The second part is, historically, software in this domain has been built as if it would be hardware,
    0:13:59 while the entire world is moving towards a direction where even the hardware companies build
    0:14:03 hardware as if it would be software. So it’s in many ways, the inverse, all right? So whenever there’s
    0:14:07 a modernization effort and no matter if this is with the government or on the commercial side and
    0:14:13 air operations, there’s usually a need, a program is started, it’s being funded. The first thing that
    0:14:17 happens is like a thousand page documentation is written, already tens of millions of dollars are
    0:14:22 spent on just writing the documentation, no software built yet, nothing shipped, nothing works yet.
    0:14:27 It’s just a documentation, right? So now we’re already tens of millions of dollars into just documentation.
    0:14:32 And then over the next 10 years, for hundreds of millions of dollars, like software is being written
    0:14:37 from scratch for that particular problem area or against those requirements. And then like 10 years
    0:14:43 later, all that is magically considered working and finished and it’s being rolled out. Obviously,
    0:14:47 by that time, it’s already out of date and antiquated because the state of technology has changed a lot
    0:14:51 over those 10 years. And then it’s somewhat maintained for the next 20 years, right? But I mean,
    0:14:56 we all know this is not how software is built given how fast it’s changing, how fast it’s moving.
    0:15:03 And then the third one is that the companies that historically participated in the space can no
    0:15:09 longer attract the very best software engineers. Like the very best software engineers do not want to
    0:15:16 work in that ecosystem and with those structures. They want to build rapidly, right? They want to build
    0:15:21 close to the user. They don’t want to be handed a list of like 10,000 requirements and then just write
    0:15:25 code against that. But the combination of what all these things meant is like, you are basically
    0:15:31 in the setup that does not produce a software that should be produced. And then if you wrap all of that
    0:15:36 into an acquisition framework that is incentivizing those philosophies, you’ve got a really big problem
    0:15:40 at hand. And that is where we are right now. But I think things are about to change.
    0:15:43 We may talk about this later, but when I just think about the Department of Defense,
    0:15:48 the way you describe that ecosystem and our challenge is exactly the same, especially in the logistics business,
    0:15:52 within each service, like the Army and Marine Corps, Air Force. Within each subunit,
    0:15:58 as you go down, legacy systems are programmed by great people decades ago that weren’t designed to be
    0:16:04 able to connect and to do that. And we spend so much time trying to ad hoc systems to put together where
    0:16:08 we really should be thinking forward to have that clean sheet type of software that can be iterative.
    0:16:13 There’s just no time to wait. I mean, you have to move fast. And even moving fast, it still takes
    0:16:16 some time. But if you don’t have that sense of urgency, we’re not going to accomplish what we need to do.
    0:16:23 On that point around urgency, we have to fix the status quo. It’s exciting that this administration
    0:16:29 seems very committed to moving fast. Would love your perspective on how fast we can solve some of these
    0:16:30 big challenges.
    0:16:35 Yeah, I think things will only change if the momentum kind of stays what it is right now,
    0:16:40 if there’s a real urgency for change. I think President Trump, Secretary Duffy set the direction
    0:16:47 and the mandate. I think the next step is for Congress to fund the modernization efforts at the
    0:16:52 FAA. I would argue that in many ways, it’s one of those areas where there’s strong bipartisan support for
    0:16:57 this. It’s very hard to argue like why not to modernize air traffic control systems and why the U.S. should not
    0:17:03 have the very best software in that field. I think everyone agrees that it’s the very best what we should
    0:17:09 have. Right. But then I would say at the same time, it’s important that the guidelines are put in place
    0:17:17 on how to spend that money and how to not repeat the same mistakes from the past. We don’t need to spend
    0:17:23 10 years on custom development if we can actually purchase software that already works in the private
    0:17:28 sector, that is already commercially deployed, that we can literally just purchase and use as is. Maybe
    0:17:33 make a few modifications, but it’s already stuff that is available. That is a lot more efficient,
    0:17:38 that allows for much faster modernization, and it’s also the safest because it’s already proven.
    0:17:43 So I think the next two steps here is like making sure the resources are there. I think it’s fair to
    0:17:47 say the FAA has historically not had, or most recently has not had the resources that they
    0:17:52 need to modernize, but then making sure the structures are done the right way so we’re not
    0:17:58 repeating the same mistakes over again. Absolutely. And when you say proven software,
    0:18:04 we’d love to understand what exactly you mean by that. How has ASI worked with the commercial sector
    0:18:09 and the DOD already to help provide some of these capabilities? Absolutely. I mean, to give you some
    0:18:15 examples, right? So when it comes to some of the modernization efforts that the FAA will pursue around,
    0:18:19 for example, air traffic management, like a lot of that software that is needed and a lot of the
    0:18:24 capabilities, we already have commercially deployed with the airlines, right? In many ways, a lot of the
    0:18:30 airlines are advocating they would love the FAA to use this type of software. So instead of building
    0:18:35 that capability from scratch for hundreds of millions of dollars, and that has historically been the idea,
    0:18:41 right? Why not use something that already is deployed, that already is used by some of the
    0:18:45 largest airlines in the country? Like, why not use that? Because it already works. And the same has
    0:18:49 been true when we started working with the U.S. Air Force. The reason why we were able to deploy within
    0:18:54 months and have seen our software being used in live operations was simply because it already worked in
    0:19:01 the commercial sector. It was already deployed there in kind of 24/7, 365 days a year type of fashion. I think
    0:19:06 there are certain areas where dual use is a good idea and there are certain areas where dual use is
    0:19:11 not a good idea. But when it comes to some of these industries where the private sector and the public
    0:19:17 sector have to collaborate very closely together, dual use is a phenomenally good idea. Not just because
    0:19:22 it’s more efficient, but it also enables more collaboration. And when it comes to the national
    0:19:27 airspace system, it’s a system that is managed by the government, but it’s used by the private sector,
    0:19:28 meaning Bay Airlines.
    0:19:32 Yeah, at the risk of really bringing a Silicon Valley term to the table, like there’s a network
    0:19:33 effect here, right?
    0:19:34 A hundred percent.
    0:19:39 You want everybody singing to the same tune. And if you have a platform where everyone has access to
    0:19:41 the same data, then everything can be more efficient.
    0:19:42 Yep.
    0:19:46 Just adding from my experience in the Department of Defense aspect, and maybe people don’t realize,
    0:19:53 but day-to-day that U.S. military uses commercial transport, whether it’s trucking, rail, air,
    0:19:59 sea, and then any kind of contingent or disaster type of escalation, we would have to actually use
    0:20:04 more. So it’s really the same resources, the same need for that collaboration and when we need to be
    0:20:07 able to really work well together on the same system and platforms.
    0:20:13 Absolutely. And that brings me to the next thing I wanted to double click on with how ASI has been
    0:20:20 expanding into areas like logistics. Can you maybe just walk us through what exactly that looks like
    0:20:25 with the DOD? It feels like a black box for many folks. And when we say contested logistics,
    0:20:26 what does that exactly mean?
    0:20:30 So contested logistics, that’s actually a military term. Every military term, we have to like
    0:20:37 definitions and doctrine and even secret stuff that we discuss. But just to understand the concept of
    0:20:41 it. And most of us order things online. I’m sure you may have done that within the last week. So when
    0:20:45 you order it, you worry about the price, maybe when it might get there. But most people have no concern
    0:20:49 about where it’s built or the supply chain when it gets there, unless it’s going to be delayed or you
    0:20:54 realize that there’s some weather system in that. Any given day, you have contested logistics. It’s just
    0:21:00 that the consumer and actually even the CEOs of some companies or even senior four-star generals may
    0:21:06 not think about logistics day to day because it hasn’t been a problem in the past. The idea of contested
    0:21:11 logistics is that whether it’s weather, whether it’s maintenance, whether it’s other situations, you’re
    0:21:15 going to have challenges. And how do you understand that, predict, and optimize? And that’s what ASI, that type
    0:21:20 software. But on the other side, from the military perspective, is that the contested logistics from
    0:21:26 adversaries will look for your vulnerabilities, which would be in our supply chain and logistics
    0:21:32 pieces. So that’s where you really to be able to outdo them and to maintain to be able to do what you need to do is to be able
    0:21:38 to understand where your vulnerabilities might be, have that resiliency in there and predictive to go around.
    0:21:44 Another one, we, in the military, move an aircraft carrier or a group of soldiers somewhere.
    0:21:50 You make that decision, but people don’t often think about the whole supply chain, the tail, I guess, of that you’d call it. The food supply,
    0:21:56 munitions, everything else to get them there and get them back. But that’s hugely important, because no matter what great weapon system you have,
    0:22:02 if you can’t supply and sustain it and move it where you need to, it’s not effective. And I really think logistics and
    0:22:07 experts do think of it as a weapon system itself. I mean, it’s your competitive advantage if you can leverage
    0:22:13 it. If you can’t and you don’t see it, it becomes your greatest weakness and vulnerability. So we want
    0:22:16 it to be your competitive advantage by providing this capability.
    0:22:21 It’s almost like electricity or water. You don’t think about it working or not working until you flip
    0:22:25 the switch and your light doesn’t come on or you turn the faucet and the water doesn’t run. So it’s
    0:22:26 really the backbone of everything.
    0:22:32 We’ve seen that from, I think, day to day, the pandemic when face masks or toilet paper, things like
    0:22:37 that. But for the military, I saw that with support to Ukraine, where there’s just munitions and things
    0:22:43 we are moving and just the resources to do that, the supply chain to be able to replenish those. And as you
    0:22:47 start thinking through and potential crises as things escalate, you’d want to be able to
    0:22:52 predict that and to understand that better. It’s just like oxygen. It’s fine up until you don’t have
    0:22:53 it and then it becomes a concern.
    0:22:55 Yeah. Philip, what’s your perspective?
    0:22:59 To echo very much what Leo shared, we talked about
    0:23:03 air traffic control and air operations before. Same there, right? You just assume things are working
    0:23:08 until they don’t, right? That’s why I think sometimes those sectors are a little harder to
    0:23:13 gather everyone’s interest for it or to make sure the funding is there, right? It’s very easy to
    0:23:18 spend money on the fancy weapon system, the autonomous drone, the new kind of high tech
    0:23:23 equipment, whatever it is, because it’s like physical, it’s like visible, etc. But when it comes to the,
    0:23:27 I would say, quote unquote, the silent software that runs in the background that enables all of this to
    0:23:33 work, that allows the most advanced equipment to go where it’s needed, when it’s needed. I think that’s
    0:23:38 sometimes too much of an afterthought. And I think in many ways you could argue you can build the most
    0:23:44 advanced equipment, you can produce it at the largest scale possible, but if you can’t get it where it’s
    0:23:50 needed, when it’s needed, it doesn’t exist. Why has that been such an underserved topic? Because to
    0:23:55 your exact point, when we think about defense and some of these new capabilities, we’re talking about
    0:24:00 autonomous drones and counter UIS capabilities and electronic warfare. We haven’t been talking nearly
    0:24:06 enough about logistics, but we have just been through the pandemic. Like we’ve seen the disruption
    0:24:08 in our personal lives. Why do we still have this disconnect?
    0:24:13 I think human nature wanting to go back to the status quo. I mean, you have all this stress and
    0:24:16 you just want to take a deep breath and go back to what seems comfortable. But we’ve been able to be
    0:24:23 comfortable for the last few decades because we haven’t had a global war, fortunately. And so it takes
    0:24:27 pressure points like the pandemic to really see, here’s where our vulnerabilities. And that’s where
    0:24:32 there was a lot of investment going, taking place. But then that human nature of just easing back,
    0:24:37 same with air traffic control. You know, great people working on that, but they deserve a much better
    0:24:42 system, software system, at least the 21st century to do that. And you hope it doesn’t have to come to
    0:24:47 something where there’s almost a crisis or something. And the other is we’ve been over the last several
    0:24:52 decades just accustomed to just in time. Logistics has just been a cost area. You’re worried
    0:24:57 about cost, reducing that. It’s all well and good if there’s nothing out there threatening that supply
    0:25:01 chain. But you realize that just in time isn’t in time at all if you can’t get that part or that
    0:25:06 supply in need. Companies that I talk to and others are realizing this, that really their competitive
    0:25:11 advantage can be in that resilient and that understanding that supply chain and logistics piece.
    0:25:15 But instead of thinking of the cost, it should be something that’s their competitive advantage,
    0:25:21 something that provides profit or in this for the military, more deterrence and capability.
    0:25:22 We’ve been talking a lot about this.
    0:25:27 I love it. Well, I want to go back to the dual use topic. That’s an area where we spend a lot of time.
    0:25:33 We think about companies that are, have an existing commercial capability that is doing great work in
    0:25:39 the commercial sector. They can take that exact same capability to the DOD. Walk us through how ASI fits
    0:25:43 into that puzzle and some of the areas where you all are going to be able to lean in.
    0:25:51 I think there are certain domains, certain capabilities where building something specific for one sector is
    0:25:56 absolutely the right way to go, right? A new missile or an aircraft carrier, there’s not much commercial
    0:26:03 applicability for that, right? Logistics is one of those domains where I would argue that it’s like the
    0:26:09 flagship example where you want to have dual use. And why is that? Leo to some extent already alluded to it.
    0:26:16 From a defense perspective, a lot of the capacity resides in the private sector on the commercial
    0:26:21 side. And that goes way beyond the civil reserve fleet, right? It’s the same infrastructure that
    0:26:27 are used, the same ports, right? And guess what? Our adversaries are actually trying to deploy their
    0:26:34 software into allied ports. Like the Chinese are really good in making sure their software runs in
    0:26:37 ports. They’re giving it away for free. And there’s a reason why they do that, right?
    0:26:44 And then from the other side, let’s say the private sector, like if you’re providing mission-critical
    0:26:49 infrastructure, like transportation, you want to make sure using military-grade software because
    0:26:55 the stakes are just so high, right? So you want these two sectors to be very close. Yes,
    0:26:59 there needs to be separation, but there’s nothing better than actually running very similar to the
    0:27:05 the same software stack on both sides so that these two sectors can communicate, can collaborate,
    0:27:12 can share data when it’s needed. And that it doesn’t feel in the moment of crisis, oh,
    0:27:17 shoot, now we need to understand like what does a software stack, what does the data structures look
    0:27:22 like on the other side so we can actually coordinate. You don’t want to figure that out when you’re in the
    0:27:28 moment of a crisis. You want to have that done before, right? And that’s very much, I think,
    0:27:32 what we’re trying to do at ASI. We want to make sure that the very best logistics software is the very
    0:27:38 best software to operate mission-critical operations is deployed with the companies that are doing that
    0:27:44 in the private sector as well as with the government, and then enable these two sectors to collaborate.
    0:27:49 So in many ways, it’s like I’m always saying it’s like the truest form of dual use because we’re not
    0:27:54 only sharing technology, but we’re also enabling collaboration and communication between these two
    0:27:59 sectors. And I think then to some extent you can make the argument of you want to use similar ideas
    0:28:04 or a similar mental model when it comes to the collaboration between the US and its allies,
    0:28:10 specifically on the side of military logistics, Contessa logistics. It is always about the
    0:28:15 integration with our allied partners. How can we tap their infrastructure? How can we use some of the
    0:28:20 capacity that they have? How can that all be coordinated? And there are times where you want to have more
    0:28:25 separation, and then there are times where you want to have tighter collaboration and more sharing,
    0:28:27 and you need to have the infrastructure in place that allows for that.
    0:28:32 So in my previous job, I was a US rep for the NATO Logistics Committee. Over the last few years in
    0:28:37 NATO, there’s always been collective defense, but not necessarily collective logistics. Logistics was on
    0:28:43 the nation to do things, but the realization is that any one nation can’t do it alone. So this idea of
    0:28:48 collective logistics across NATO, which the US is a member of NATO, is all common sense, but they finally
    0:28:53 put it into not only an understanding, common understanding, but planning and other things to
    0:28:58 how best to utilize our collective logistics capabilities and plan for that in the future.
    0:29:05 If we talk about modernizing logistics for the DOD, what exactly needs to change? Is this a policy issue?
    0:29:10 Is it a culture issue? Is it an experimentation issue? What do we need to fix here?
    0:29:16 I think it’s really thinking very differently about the software. And when I say software,
    0:29:20 in this case, I don’t mean like just the legacy software, but I think also what we deployed in
    0:29:26 recent years. I think the last five, 10 years, a lot of the modernization that happened was just like
    0:29:30 putting up new dashboards that are running in these operation centers on like bigger TVs,
    0:29:35 but we haven’t really deployed software to the warfighter, to the operator. David Yulevich is
    0:29:40 putting it very well when he’s saying the world is getting a lot more spicy. It’s much spicier now.
    0:29:46 And what that means is we actually need different software. When the world is stable, you can operate
    0:29:50 off like near real-time displays. That means the human operator is seeing problems as they happen,
    0:29:56 and then they react to it. But that’s not necessarily the world we’re living in. The world is a lot more
    0:30:01 uncertain now. And I think that means we need to have software that is showing the operator what is
    0:30:06 about to happen in the operating domain. How do they need to adjust? I would say anticipation in
    0:30:11 many ways is a new high ground. When it comes to software, we’ve seen three evolution steps. The
    0:30:17 first evolution was we have compute. This is in the 1970s, 1980s. We had workstations. They were not
    0:30:23 connected. You input some data, and there’s some optimization process or some form of processing
    0:30:27 that is happening, and then you have an output. The next evolution was when all those workstations
    0:30:33 became connected, right? The internet. So now a lot more data became online, and the next step from
    0:30:37 there was like, oh great, now we can extend that to the internet of syncs. A lot more sensors became
    0:30:41 online. So the big challenge was like, how do we fuse all that data, right? How do we make sure
    0:30:46 we have a great common operating picture? I think that was very much kind of the focus over the last
    0:30:53 15 years or so. So data fusion and like displaying that data and making it accessible very often to these
    0:30:59 critical industries and the military. I think now we’re at the very beginning of a new revolution,
    0:31:05 which is prediction machines, right? How do we actually build interfaces that are predicting what
    0:31:09 is about to happen? What is the state of the operating domain? What is the state of the supply chain? What
    0:31:15 is the state of the assets we’re operating, not just right now, but over the next hours, over the next
    0:31:21 days, over the next weeks? And how can we forward simulate that? And that is an enormous advantage for
    0:31:26 an organization if you have that capability. And now we need to make sure we’re rolling that out,
    0:31:31 and we’re embedding it in our operations. From an ASI perspective, we pioneered some of that work,
    0:31:36 very specifically in the air domain. But we need to do that more broadly now, across all domains,
    0:31:43 across both sectors, private and public. And then I think the second part is like we need to enable
    0:31:47 much tighter collaboration between the two sectors. We talked about that already a little bit, but the
    0:31:56 key issue is going to be how do we get more capacity ASAP, right? And yes, we can think about how do we
    0:32:00 build more ships and all of that, and there are clear needs for that. But again, all those things take
    0:32:05 time. But at the same time, there is already a lot of capacity within the Western Hemisphere, between
    0:32:11 the US and its partners and allies, as well as between the private and the public sector. Like how do we
    0:32:17 enable collaboration communication to make sure that capacity can be used, and can be used effectively or
    0:32:24 efficiently. And then lastly, I think it’s important that these sectors are not just an afterthought. How do we
    0:32:30 make sure that these sectors get the funding and the care and the attention, not just when
    0:32:35 things fall apart? Because that means it’s too late, but how do we make sure we invest in these
    0:32:41 sectors proactively before things fall apart? I think the last point about just the funding
    0:32:44 and prioritization, I think from policy, that logistics is just fundamental to everything we
    0:32:49 do and to fund it and prioritize it. The other is, and this came from your air traffic controller
    0:32:55 explanation about just the skill sets that it took in the past to get proficient maybe with older
    0:33:00 systems. And so I had a big challenge in the joint staff as a director for logistics in creating
    0:33:06 joint logisticians. So in the military term, joint means you’ve got the Army, Air Force, Navy, Marines,
    0:33:10 and each of those have perspectives. If Air Force wants to move something, they think about doing it by
    0:33:15 air, Navy, by sea, for example, or maybe Army by ground. First, you have to be an expert in that kind
    0:33:20 of logistics, the air logistics. That takes several years and not a decade. And then opportunities to
    0:33:24 become a joint logistics expert, which means you have to understand all of those. That takes a lot of time,
    0:33:29 and we’re challenged to do that. Not that we shouldn’t strive to do that, but when you have AI
    0:33:36 decision-making tools that can enable individuals to make decisions, just to facilitate, instead of
    0:33:40 taking 20 years to train someone to do this, you have software that you can be trained and still learn,
    0:33:45 but can give you the option of multimodal, just send it by ship or air or what the best decision is.
    0:33:50 And I think that’s really an accelerator from what we need to do, because not that we still
    0:33:56 shouldn’t train and achieve that, but in today’s technology, we should be leveraging that technology
    0:34:01 as opposed to struggling to try to provide this one person that can do everything. And if that person’s
    0:34:07 not there, then you can’t succeed. Exactly. If I’m a developer, I don’t need to go out and buy
    0:34:11 a bunch of servers and rack and stack them in my garage. I can swipe my credit card with one of the
    0:34:16 cloud providers and focus on higher level efforts, actually build the software. So it sounds like
    0:34:21 there’s a similar opportunity here for acceleration. Philip, I’d love to ask you one more question,
    0:34:26 because you started to touch on the intersection of AI and logistics. If we’re doing all this right,
    0:34:31 and we get in a time machine 10 years from now, what are some of the problems that we’re going to be able
    0:34:39 to solve with getting that right? One is we will be able to do a lot more with the capacity that we
    0:34:48 have available. So that’s one. I think two is we will be able to harden our logistic networks in an
    0:34:54 uncertain world or uncertain state of the world. I think no matter how some of these crises are going
    0:34:59 to pan out, I think the probability is very high that the next few decades are going to be a bit more
    0:35:06 dynamic and uncertain than the last two decades were. And that means that every form of supply chain,
    0:35:15 any piece of mission critical infrastructure will be in one form or shape be disrupted. And how do we
    0:35:22 have software that allows us to very quickly reroute stuff so that the impact of that uncertainty doesn’t
    0:35:30 impact the warfighter doesn’t impact us, the civilian infrastructure, because we have the software
    0:35:36 systems in place that are able to kind of balance that out and reroute things. And again, I think the
    0:35:41 uncertainty we have a obviously from geopolitical tensions, but equally from sanctions, also from a
    0:35:47 climate perspective, like increasingly more volatile weather has a huge implication, for example, to the
    0:35:53 national airspace system and travel. And so how can we have logistic systems that are able to anticipate
    0:35:58 these challenges and then balance things out when needed because you have that predictive capability?
    0:36:03 No one I know wants to fight a war, but we want to be able to prevent that. Philip already alluded to, no matter what
    0:36:09 ships and aircraft and high tech weapons you have, if you can’t sustain them, you can move them where they need to be,
    0:36:14 the adversary knows that. Or even if you can move them where they need to be, but you can’t keep them sustained for any given
    0:36:20 amount of time, that doesn’t provide that deterrence. And that’s something fundamental that we’ve, I think, maybe not had to
    0:36:26 think about as a nation for many decades, but having that ability to do that, to provide that deterrence
    0:36:33 based on understanding and really fully taking advantage of the logistics capability allows us to be
    0:36:37 stronger. And hopefully, fast forward 10 years from now, I can’t tell you everything that will happen that
    0:36:42 time, but we will still be able to deter and make sure that it’s a free and open world because of that.
    0:36:47 If we don’t have that capability, it makes anything we do from the national security perspective that much
    0:36:51 harder. And I don’t want it to be that much harder for our military men and women out there.
    0:36:56 What are the risks if we don’t get this right? If we don’t modernize, what’s at stake?
    0:37:00 There should be a sense of urging because there’s no time. There’s a book out there called The 100-Year
    0:37:03 Marathon by Michael Pillsbury. And some of the background and the premise of the book is that
    0:37:09 adversaries like China have been looking at our vulnerabilities and supply chains for quite some
    0:37:14 time. And in a marathon, even if Philip’s a much faster runner, but if I start running today,
    0:37:19 he doesn’t start to tomorrow, I probably will win. And this is where the sense of urgency to catch up
    0:37:26 with our risks. Our risks lie in our ports, lie within our supply chain. You’ll see news releases
    0:37:32 about hacking into water supply systems in places in Texas. And you’re under, why is that all happening?
    0:37:37 If you look at Sun Tzu ancient strategy, the best type of war you fight is one that you don’t have to
    0:37:42 fight at all. We just, as a nation, we have been able to power project and do things from everywhere
    0:37:46 around the world. And it’s been great for the United States to do that. And we have an amazing capability,
    0:37:52 but in this age of contested logistics with hypersonic missiles and cyber and space threats,
    0:37:57 our ability, not just to operate abroad, but just to be able to leave our own ports and to be able to
    0:38:03 move rail and everything uncontested, no longer exists. It probably hasn’t existed for a few years
    0:38:09 or more. And so that’s really where the risk is. So that’s why the risk of not really taking action,
    0:38:14 not drastically updating your system to the way that cutting industry operates at the Department of
    0:38:20 Defense with logistics has built a system 40 years ago and done minor updates to it. That’s not the way
    0:38:24 we need to operate in the future. And also from a geography perspective, I mean, this stuff is so
    0:38:29 important, right? I mean, in many ways, the greatest asset for the U.S. is you’ve got a massive ocean
    0:38:34 to the west, you’ve got a massive ocean to the east, right? It’s actually very, very hard for any
    0:38:41 adversary to attack the U.S. on its homeland, given you have the oceans. But at the same time,
    0:38:46 from a global power projection, we need to be able to overcome these vast distances over the oceans.
    0:38:52 And that requires logistics, right? And our adversaries know that. And like their strategies
    0:38:56 are very much like, okay, how do we cripple key logistic infrastructure, no matter if it’s
    0:39:05 in the homeland or with allies and partners, to make sure the U.S. is limited in its capability
    0:39:10 to make sure the equipment can go where it’s needed, when it’s needed, right? And that requires software
    0:39:16 as much as a physical infrastructure to allow that we maintain the ability to project power globally.
    0:39:20 Just some tangible examples. If you look back to the colonial pipeline,
    0:39:25 for those who are in the east coast, couldn’t get gas for quite some time. You look at the Suez Canal
    0:39:30 back in 2021, you had a ship that was trying to parallel the park. It stuck there for six days,
    0:39:36 just the billions almost of dollars of trade that were affected by that. Those are things that had
    0:39:42 different reasons to do it, no nefarious actions in particular. But you could just imagine those
    0:39:46 vulnerabilities that we have. And you just can’t stop if we’re in a crisis. You’re going to have to
    0:39:51 be able to overcome that. And that’s why this predictive logistics capability, AI enabled,
    0:39:56 is a way that we would have to be able to look and think to come up with solutions. I think that’s so key.
    0:40:01 And then how do we understand the threat profile for every single node in the system, right? How do we
    0:40:06 understand the threats that might impact key infrastructure? We see a lot how underwater sea
    0:40:13 cables are being attacked, right? Like every key node in the system is a vulnerability. And like,
    0:40:19 how do we make sure we have the technology in place to detect any threats, no matter in what form or
    0:40:24 shape they are coming? And then how do we quickly counter that by relying on other nodes more than
    0:40:31 maybe particular nodes that are impacted in their capacity and efficiency. Now, if you made it this
    0:40:36 far, a reminder that this was recorded live at our third annual American Dynamism Summit in the heart of
    0:40:41 Washington, D.C. And if you’d like to see more exclusive content from the summit, head on over
    0:40:54 to a16z.com/american-dynamism-summit, or you can click the link in our description.

    Today’s critical infrastructure—air traffic, logistics, defense—is powered by legacy software. And that’s a problem.

    In this episode, recorded live at the a16z American Dynamism Summit, a16z partner Leila Hay sits down with Phillip Buckendorf, CEO of Air Space Intelligence, and Lt. Gen. Leonard J. Kosinski (Ret.), ASI’s Chief Strategy Officer and former Director for Logistics on the Joint Staff for the Pentagon. 

    They explore why software is now a weapon system, how dual-use tech can harden both civilian and military infrastructure, and what happens if we don’t modernize fast enough.

     

    Resources:

    Find Phillip on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/phillipbuckendorf/?locale=en_US

    Find Lieutenant General Leonard J Kosinsk on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ljkosinski/

    Find Leila on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leilahay/

     

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  • Rita McGrath: Inflection Points and the Future of Strategic Advantage

    AI transcript
    0:00:04 In my years of entrepreneurship, I’ve seen countless startups.
    0:00:06 And here’s the truth.
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    0:00:39 Go to brex.com slash grow to learn more.
    0:00:42 The team that was studying the company said,
    0:00:45 you know, the average age of our user is between 18 and 22,
    0:00:48 and the median age of our employees is 48.
    0:00:51 And the whole room kind of went quiet.
    0:00:53 It was like, what are we maybe missing?
    0:00:56 And that started our really fruitful conversation about
    0:01:00 what is changing among those 22-year-olds that we should be paying attention to.
    0:01:04 I’m Guy Kawasaki.
    0:01:09 The remarkable person who is my guest today is Rita McGrath.
    0:01:14 And she is one of the foremost thinkers in strategy and innovation.
    0:01:17 She’s a professor at Columbia Business School.
    0:01:23 We have a mutual admiration for Clayton Christensen, you know, the innovator’s dilemma.
    0:01:34 So she’s going to talk about strategy and inflection points and innovation and stupidity and all kinds of stuff like that.
    0:01:36 So welcome to the show, Rita.
    0:01:38 Such a pleasure to be here.
    0:01:39 Thank you for inviting me.
    0:01:52 First question for you is today, 2025, is there such a thing as a large, singular, semi-permanent, at least, competitive advantage?
    0:01:53 Is there such a thing anymore?
    0:02:03 The closest to it would be what I’d call network effects, which is when you’re running a platform and you have the two sides that are connected because each one is there for the other.
    0:02:11 So if you think about something like Google’s business model, it’s a virtuous circle in that they get the views, they get the searches, therefore they get the advertisers.
    0:02:15 But you can see storm clouds on the horizon even for that model, which is a very powerful one.
    0:02:29 Talking about that as a competitive advantage, I have now made a Chrome extension that makes whenever I search in the Chrome search bar, it’s actually searching chat GPT.
    0:02:42 So now instead of getting a Google search with its, you know, the paid stuff on top and then 250,000 links to YouTube videos, now I just get an answer, right?
    0:02:45 And the answers are much better than their search results.
    0:02:50 If you’re saying that’s a competitive advantage for Google, I would be worried if that’s the best example.
    0:02:53 It’s been a really good example for a long time.
    0:02:59 I don’t know how long you would give a long-term competitive advantage, but certainly that would carry Google for many, many years.
    0:03:02 What do you think Apple’s competitive advantages are?
    0:03:06 Well, Apple is a platform slash product company.
    0:03:11 I’ve always thought that their competitive advantage was their focus on product rather than content.
    0:03:18 And they’ve built this whole platform around everything being connected to everything, but they’re physical things and they’re beautiful physical things.
    0:03:22 And people that are loyal to Apple are really, really, really loyal to Apple.
    0:03:27 So I think it’s that notion of design, the way the products just work together.
    0:03:28 You don’t have to think about them.
    0:03:32 The design is intuitive, which isn’t to say Apple hasn’t had missteps over the years.
    0:03:39 But I think the Apple that people really love is that one that produces these delightful experiences we didn’t even know we wanted.
    0:03:42 That’s what we call evangelism.
    0:03:45 I know a thing or two about this.
    0:03:46 I bet you do.
    0:04:04 So, you know, I read your book, Seeing Around Corners, and it, correct me if I’m wrong, but I got the impression, and this book is five years, six years old now, I got the impression that you were saying that there were big storm clouds on the horizon for Facebook.
    0:04:13 And you go into this list of everything they’re doing wrong, and here we are, 2025, and it seems like none of that bad stuff happened.
    0:04:15 Yeah, I was surprised.
    0:04:17 How do you explain that?
    0:04:21 I think they’ve been super smart in the acquisitions that they’ve done.
    0:04:32 They’ve taken real advantage of a lack of Department of Justice activity in terms of being allowed to acquire their competitors, certainly WhatsApp, certainly Instagram, genius.
    0:04:33 I have to hand it to Mark Zuckerberg.
    0:04:42 He really saw that inflection point that Instagram was going through when they first opened up to Android phones, and they had a million subscribers like day one.
    0:04:47 And he said, whoa, whoa, whoa, company in our space starting right at the beginning of that inflection point.
    0:04:50 And that’s why he was willing to pay so much for that company.
    0:04:57 The thing about inflection points, and I’d be a super billionaire if I got this right, the thing about inflection points that’s difficult is the timing.
    0:05:00 So if I think about our friend Paul Krugman, right?
    0:05:04 So in 2004, he said, you know, there’s a dangerous bubble building up in the housing market.
    0:05:08 And then he said in 2005, he said, you know, there’s a really dangerous bubble bursting up in the housing market.
    0:05:12 2006, you know, there’s a dangerous bubble bursting up in the housing market.
    0:05:15 And everybody’s like, Paul, for God’s sake, let it go.
    0:05:18 And then, of course, 2007, 2008 happened.
    0:05:20 And he was right, but it’s hard to tell about time.
    0:05:29 If you’re saying that the lack of enforcement of the Department of Justice six years ago, it’s open season now, right?
    0:05:31 There is no Department of Justice.
    0:05:34 They’re so busy looking for terrorists attacking Tesla dealers.
    0:05:36 How can they address meta?
    0:05:39 They’re bigger fish to fry like Tesla dealerships.
    0:05:40 What can I say?
    0:05:49 So listen, you draw a really great distinction I never thought of before, which is what is the difference between an arena and a market?
    0:05:57 So an arena is basically surrounding the resources that you need to run your business effectively.
    0:06:03 And when you think about it, there’s many, many, many other players that could potentially be in that arena.
    0:06:10 So as opposed to thinking about a market or an industry, which is the way we normally think about things, you need to really broaden your aperture.
    0:06:11 So I’ll give an example.
    0:06:16 I’m working right now with a company that’s very much in the logistics area, you know, moving stuff from place to place.
    0:06:20 And they think of their arena as logistics or trucking or whatever.
    0:06:22 And yet I said to them, I don’t think so.
    0:06:25 I think your arena is really enabling consumption.
    0:06:32 And so anything that shifts consumption patterns, reduces consumption, this whole idea of dematerialization, right?
    0:06:33 Where we take songs, right?
    0:06:36 We used to have to buy albums and then we had to buy CDs.
    0:06:38 And now we don’t even buy songs.
    0:06:40 We rent them and they fly through the air and land on a device.
    0:06:47 All those trucks that used to ship CDs from ports to record stores and, you know, dematerialization is going to be a real thing.
    0:06:55 So the concept behind arena is that your competition may not actually people or organizations that do similar things to yourself.
    0:06:59 They might be people that are just going after the resources that you’re going after.
    0:07:01 So one of my favorite examples at the moment is weddings.
    0:07:02 Weddings.
    0:07:03 Weddings.
    0:07:13 I don’t know about your circles, but in my circles, I have two kids who have literally spent like just about two or three times a quarter at weddings since 2021.
    0:07:18 So in 2020, right, the pandemic, a lot of weddings got scaled back or didn’t happen or whatever.
    0:07:24 And then come the end of the pandemic, all of a sudden the floodgates opened and then we had every and every other month there’s a wedding.
    0:07:33 But if you think about it, if you’re trying to sell something to anybody between the ages of about 22 and call it 40, you’re competing with weddings because every wedding is what?
    0:07:34 It’s a trip.
    0:07:35 It’s an outfit.
    0:07:36 It’s a gift.
    0:07:36 It’s expensive.
    0:07:41 And the people that are that age often don’t have a huge amount of wealth built up yet.
    0:07:44 So, you know, they’re going to be cutting back their spending on other things.
    0:07:51 I got to ask you, since I have such a academically respected person on the line, I’ve read the story of Kodak.
    0:07:56 And in 1975, Steve Sesson invented the digital camera.
    0:08:02 But obviously, Kodak did not exactly penetrate the digital camera market.
    0:08:10 And so is that a case of Kodak was looking at competition in terms of chemical companies putting chemicals on film?
    0:08:14 And really, they were in the arena of preserving memories.
    0:08:21 So they got just absolutely slaughtered by something they didn’t see, even though they invented it.
    0:08:25 I think there’s a few wrinkles on the Kodak story that often get overlooked.
    0:08:28 The first wrinkle is that they overlooked digital.
    0:08:29 They didn’t.
    0:08:32 Kodak was for many years in the mid-0s.
    0:08:35 The number one selling digital cameras were Kodak cameras.
    0:08:38 The trouble is, Guy, that it was an awful business.
    0:08:47 I think their CEO is quoted as saying this is a really crappy business because the way that the digital images were captured was basically off-the-shelf parts.
    0:08:51 And this is why, like, an 18-year-old surfboarder could start a company called GoPro.
    0:08:54 And all of a sudden, he’s disrupting the electronic digital market.
    0:09:05 But the bigger problem for Kodak to me was that in politics, what happened was there was a gentleman called Antonio Perez, who was very famous for having built up the printer business at Hewlett-Packard.
    0:09:11 And he did not get selected as that company’s CEO because they picked Carly Fiorina instead.
    0:09:13 And now Carly’s got a problem and he’s got a problem.
    0:09:16 He’s feeling nose out of joint that he should have gotten that job.
    0:09:17 She needs to do something with him.
    0:09:21 And so she sort of sends him off to do this joint venture with Kodak.
    0:09:23 He tried to talk HP into buying Kodak.
    0:09:24 The board said no.
    0:09:29 And then eventually, when the CEO role opened up at Kodak, he was given that job.
    0:09:37 And what he missed, I think, was that screens and pixels were getting so good that nobody needed to print anymore.
    0:09:44 And what he did was he aimed that company directly at the printing business, even as the need for printing was beginning to go into decline.
    0:09:54 And I suspect observers at the time said this was a political move to try to reclaim his former glory is the guy who legitimately built up HP’s printer business, which was magnificent.
    0:09:57 So I think there’s a piece of the Kodak story that we don’t hear.
    0:10:01 And a really interesting counter example is what Fujifilm did.
    0:10:06 And Fuji was in the same business, same problem, which is the need to print was getting less and less and less.
    0:10:08 Demand was just dropping by leaps and bounds.
    0:10:11 But what Fuji did instead was they said, hey, wait a minute.
    0:10:13 We are a capability-centered company.
    0:10:14 There’s stuff we know how to do.
    0:10:20 And they created a special task force to go and find new markets where those capabilities would be relevant.
    0:10:23 So they got into imaging in healthcare.
    0:10:34 They got into cosmetics because apparently if you are really good at putting goop on thin pieces of film to make a smart image, it also is relevant to things like your skin and your hair.
    0:10:37 And so Fuji today is a thriving company.
    0:10:40 Kodak, the shadow of what it once was.
    0:10:41 But I think it was a strategic decision.
    0:10:46 And I don’t think it was just sort of the standard things, poor, dumb, stupid company that missed digital.
    0:10:49 I think what they missed was something quite different.
    0:11:09 So wait, are you saying that it’s not as black and white as Kodak was just wanting to stick with film as much as they didn’t understand that printing was not necessary at all because the quality of displays, people would just share pictures.
    0:11:11 They would never print pictures.
    0:11:13 Well, and they tried to get into that business.
    0:11:15 If you remember, they bought a website called Ophoto.
    0:11:21 You may recall that, which was, if you look at it through the lens of today, in its day, it was the Instagram, right?
    0:11:23 The place you went to share photographs.
    0:11:28 But they never really succeeded at figuring out what the consumer use case was.
    0:11:29 And it didn’t last that long.
    0:11:42 It seems to me that depending on which book you last read, one book says focus on the customer.
    0:11:45 The other says don’t focus on the customer.
    0:11:50 They can only describe better film as opposed to digital camera.
    0:11:55 Some people say you focus on your competition to see what they’re doing.
    0:11:57 Other people say ignore your competition.
    0:11:59 So what are the dangers here?
    0:12:00 What are you supposed to do?
    0:12:02 There’s so many possibilities here.
    0:12:09 Well, I think one of the biggest strategic choices that company leaders have to make is what are you going to center your company on?
    0:12:11 And there’s many different candidates for that.
    0:12:19 So some companies, George Stalk years ago wrote a book called Hardball about companies that were really centered on we are going to clean our competitors’ clocks.
    0:12:25 Other companies, I mean, Amazon in its original incarnations would be famous for its focus on the customer.
    0:12:28 Fuji, very focused on what its capabilities are.
    0:12:31 Now, I don’t think you can apply equal focus to all those things.
    0:12:37 So I think one of the big strategic choices you have to make is what are we going to center this company on?
    0:12:37 What’s our mission?
    0:12:41 How is that supported by what we do, by our brand, by our behavior?
    0:12:47 And so I think once you’ve made that choice, then a whole series of other consistent choices flow from that.
    0:12:54 So if you’re Fuji and you’re focused on where are all the places where our technology is useful, you honestly don’t care that much about the competition.
    0:12:59 Because what you’re looking for is a technical buyer who’s looking for a technical solution to a problem they haven’t been able to solve yet.
    0:13:04 And that’s a completely different conversation than, hey, what’s Fujitsu or somebody doing?
    0:13:09 And if you’re focused on the customer, right, everything you do goes through this lens of is this better for the customer?
    0:13:10 Does it provide a better experience?
    0:13:12 Is it going to lead to something?
    0:13:18 And a framework I like to use to think about that is something that, in fact, it was Clay who used this a lot.
    0:13:19 It was called the jobs to be done theory.
    0:13:28 And he said, if you think about it, any customer, any partner, any supplier does business with you because there’s something they’re trying to get accomplished in their lives.
    0:13:33 And honestly, for many companies, if they could accomplish that thing, they would prefer not to do business with you.
    0:13:37 I had a conversation the other day with somebody from, oh, they make filters.
    0:13:39 This company makes filters.
    0:13:40 They’re a very well-known maker of filters.
    0:13:44 And we’re having this whole conversation about what the future of filters look like.
    0:13:46 And I said, you do understand nobody wants your product.
    0:13:48 And they were like, what?
    0:13:49 Of course they do.
    0:13:49 They want that.
    0:13:54 And I said, no, what they want is the impurities to be removed and they want the outcome.
    0:13:55 Yes, absolutely.
    0:14:02 But if there was some different way of getting that outcome, you guys that are so anchored on selling filters, that could be a problem for you, right?
    0:14:09 So are you essentially saying that there is no single path to success?
    0:14:12 Sometimes you focus on the competitor.
    0:14:13 You want to clean their clock.
    0:14:15 Sometimes you want to make the customer happy.
    0:14:22 I mean, you’re supposed to simplify things for my listeners and just say, this is the way, the McGrath way.
    0:14:24 What is the McGrath way?
    0:14:30 I like to talk about five Cs that I take into account when I’m trying to do a strategic situation analysis.
    0:14:33 And so the customer is the top one.
    0:14:34 Then your complementors.
    0:14:40 So who is in your ecosystem that makes what you do more valuable in terms of customer willingness to pay?
    0:14:41 Then obviously your competition.
    0:14:44 Then your own company and its capabilities.
    0:14:46 And lastly, the strategic context.
    0:14:53 So what I try to do is I go through the five Cs and I say, what are the big patterns in each of those that we should be paying attention to?
    0:14:58 And what you find, Guy, when you pull them all together, there’s a gestalt that starts to emerge.
    0:15:06 It says, wait a minute, this thing over here on customers connects to that thing over there on competition, connects to this over here in our own company.
    0:15:07 So I’ll give you an example.
    0:15:10 I was working with a company that does a lot of software for college campuses.
    0:15:14 So they do behind the scenes learning management systems and stuff like that.
    0:15:18 And the company team, I had them break into teams around each of these Cs.
    0:15:23 And the team that was studying the company said, the average age of our user is between 18 and 22.
    0:15:26 And the median age of our employees is 48.
    0:15:28 And the whole room went quiet.
    0:15:30 It was like, what are we maybe missing?
    0:15:37 And that started a really fruitful conversation about what is changing among those 22-year-olds that we should be paying attention to.
    0:15:41 You’re saying that the customer is on top of this heap.
    0:15:47 But what if you truly believe you are creating customers that don’t exist yet?
    0:15:51 You could make that case, although AI is, I don’t know, 100 years old.
    0:15:58 But five years ago, you would have said that chat GPT created customers who never knew they wanted an LLM.
    0:15:59 That’s true.
    0:16:00 Yeah, that’s true.
    0:16:05 So how do you run a company when you’re trying to create something out of thin air?
    0:16:11 I think what you’re trying to do in that case is anticipate, and this is really an inflection point story.
    0:16:18 So what’s the boundary condition that gets shifted given shifts in the state of what’s possible in technology?
    0:16:24 You remember back in 2011, 2012, everybody was all about, oh, my God, the direct-to-consumer revolution.
    0:16:25 Do you remember that?
    0:16:34 And it was Harry’s, and it was Dollar Shave Club, and it was Glossier, and everybody was selling everything direct-to-consumer from mattresses to dog food to you name it.
    0:16:37 And this went on for about 10 years.
    0:16:39 And then everybody figured out, well, wait a minute.
    0:16:41 There’s something to be said for going direct-to-consumer.
    0:16:46 And consumers started to say, hang on, I want to be able to try on that pair of pants before I click buy.
    0:16:54 And so what we came to realize was direct-to-consumer was great and had its advantages, but it wasn’t going to be a long-lived advantage.
    0:17:03 One of the co-founders of Warby Parker said, it’s never been easier to start a company, and it’s never been harder to scale it, which I thought was a great quote.
    0:17:10 The bottom line is, I love this concept of an inflection point, but Rita, how do I spot this thing?
    0:17:14 Oh, that’s a great question, and one that I spent years mulling over.
    0:17:18 So you remember Ante Grove, right, and his fabulous book, Only the Paranoids Survive, back in the 90s.
    0:17:22 And it was about Intel’s journey through this inflection point.
    0:17:27 So his book was, the inflection point has happened, and now here’s all the things we had to do to navigate through it.
    0:17:32 And I was tortured by this because I thought, oh, it’s such a powerful concept.
    0:17:38 If an inflection point comes out of nowhere and bops you on the side of the head and you didn’t see it coming, what do you do with this as a strategist, right?
    0:17:45 And then a friend, saved my life, sent me this wonderful article, and it was called, What If You Changed the World and Nobody Noticed?
    0:17:52 And the article, the central story in the article, is about the Wright brothers and their initial flight at Kitty Hawk.
    0:18:02 And you would think, discovering manned flight, like if you’d said to somebody 150 years ago, in the future, human beings are going to put themselves in metal tubes and hurtle through the air,
    0:18:10 and you’re going to be able to get from Australia to New Zealand or Australia to Alaska in a matter of hours, people would have looked at you as though you had two heads and said,
    0:18:13 This person’s delusional or possibly even dangerous.
    0:18:17 And so you would think, the Wright brothers, this breakthrough, next day in the newspaper, nothing.
    0:18:20 Following month, nothing.
    0:18:21 Next year, nothing.
    0:18:28 It took five full years before any serious newspaper went out and started covering what the Wright brothers were doing.
    0:18:37 And I think this is a fascinating innovation story because the smart money was on Langley, right, who got his craft up in the Potomac and then it crashed 20 seconds after takeoff.
    0:18:38 Who were the Wright brothers?
    0:18:42 They were these bicycle repair guys out in the middle of nowhere in Akron, Ohio.
    0:18:47 So they weren’t plugged into these social networks where the smart money was spending and all that kind of thing.
    0:18:49 And I think a lot of innovation happens like that.
    0:18:52 It happens when nobody’s really looking and paying attention.
    0:18:55 And it happens because people are tinkering, not just having great thoughts, but tinkering.
    0:19:03 Anyway, so what it made me realize was the whole process of inflection points coming to be was a lot like the line in the old Hemingway book,
    0:19:06 The sun also rises when one character says to another, well, how did you go bankrupt?
    0:19:10 And the answer was, well, two ways, gradually and then suddenly.
    0:19:17 So I think to answer your question more directly, all these things are burbling along for years, sometimes decades.
    0:19:18 Think about it, Guy.
    0:19:25 We had the Jetsons in 1962 and we’re still sitting around waiting for robot servants and flying cars and stuff like that.
    0:19:27 And so it takes a really long time before these things matter.
    0:19:30 And then when they matter, they start mattering a lot.
    0:19:41 So you could look at ChatGPT, for example, as an accumulative function of learning about human machine interaction that finally reached a tipping point when these guys,
    0:19:43 I mean, this clearly was not the marketing department.
    0:19:46 Who in the marketing department released a product called ChatGPT?
    0:19:52 It was clearly just an experiment they were doing to see how human beings interacted with these large models.
    0:19:54 And that opened the floodgates.
    0:19:55 And here we are now.
    0:20:03 In your book, you talk about the initial hype and then the dismissal and then the emergence and then the maturity.
    0:20:13 We often mention cases where in the dismissal stage, people will make fools of themselves because they dismissed something that became very true.
    0:20:22 But I got to also believe, Rita, that everything that people dismiss isn’t going to be a success.
    0:20:25 So some people dismiss stuff and they are right.
    0:20:32 So what do you think the percentage is of false positive dismissal or false negative dismissal?
    0:20:35 I think it depends on the nature of the inflection point.
    0:20:46 So I think things that are truly changing the boundary conditions of what’s possible are going to be much less successful dismissing those.
    0:20:53 Things that are more like a manufacturer’s wet dream are the things that I think are much more likely to be dismissed.
    0:20:57 And remember when we were all going to be sitting watching television with 3D glasses on our faces?
    0:21:00 And that was supposed to be this major innovation.
    0:21:01 And a lot of people said, no way.
    0:21:03 And the people that said, no way, we’re actually right.
    0:21:16 But when you think about something that fundamentally changes almost the physics or the possibilities, if you think about the major advances in capitalism that we’ve had, so the original industrial revolution changed everything, right?
    0:21:21 It changed how we made the agricultural patterns that changed the agricultural patterns that changed property rights.
    0:21:26 If you think about steel railroads that expanded the world, it really did change things.
    0:21:33 So I think part of the skill of knowing when to be dismissive and not is really understanding how deep this transformation could be.
    0:21:43 And I’m in the camp that believes that we’re just at the very, very earliest stages of figuring out what digital is going to create in our economy, in our society.
    0:22:03 So if you think about the post-World War II consensus between government, business, ordinary people, then what we really wanted as a society was to create a rich, prosperous middle class.
    0:22:07 And tax rates at the time were upwards of 90 percent.
    0:22:11 You could support a family on a manufacturing job throughout much of that post-war period.
    0:22:12 We had suburbs.
    0:22:13 We had highways.
    0:22:15 We had oil and plastic and all that stuff.
    0:22:18 We were kind of getting to the end of that era.
    0:22:29 And now what we’re looking at is a real inflection point towards what does a truly digital, oil-free, non-petroleum-based, potentially even not free trade, what does that all look like?
    0:22:30 We’re just beginning to figure that out.
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    0:23:32 I would love to hear your analysis of the crypto arena.
    0:23:35 We have definitely gone through the hype stage.
    0:23:38 It seems we’re in the dismissal stage.
    0:23:44 But is this going to be emerging, or you think it’s going to really crater?
    0:23:48 I am not a believer in crypto, so I may regret saying that.
    0:23:51 But I don’t understand crypto.
    0:23:52 Do you understand crypto?
    0:23:54 I can’t claim to understand it.
    0:23:54 Not at all.
    0:24:02 But I think a lot of what you’re seeing now is the crazy capital went into that because it looked like one of those high, high, high upside opportunities.
    0:24:03 And it’s a gambling thing.
    0:24:05 You can think of it as the casino economy stage.
    0:24:07 That hype stage is like a casino.
    0:24:08 But here’s the thing.
    0:24:14 I think if you think about money and you connect crypto to the idea of money, cash is pretty stupid, right?
    0:24:22 Like the cash you’ve got in your pocket doesn’t know where it’s been, doesn’t know what it’s been used for, can’t report on who is doing good or badly with it.
    0:24:36 And so if you think about money as we’ve traditionally had it in terms of just cash, what you’re seeing now is we’re laying layers of intelligence on that original kind of concept of gold coins or whatever.
    0:24:44 So now we’ve got we can track transactions, you can pay for things seamlessly, your credit card knows a lot about you, your bank knows a lot about you.
    0:24:55 And so if you think about crypto as being this distributed, smarter way of understanding what’s being done with money and who’s doing it, there could be some very interesting future applications for that.
    0:25:01 Blockchain more broadly, I think we’re, again, at the early stages of figuring out where that’s going to fit into our lives as well.
    0:25:04 How do we know when we’re in the middle of this?
    0:25:09 I think you don’t, but there are smart ways of not knowing and there’s not so smart ways of not knowing, right?
    0:25:12 So I think a smart way of not knowing is to say, what is my hypothesis?
    0:25:15 So let’s take a hypothesis about crypto, right?
    0:25:21 So crypto is going to represent, I’ll call it 2% of the world’s transactions in X, Y, Z time.
    0:25:24 Before that could be true, what would we have to see, right?
    0:25:26 We’d have to see regimes of trust around crypto.
    0:25:33 We’d have to see efficient trading with transparent rules around it so that people didn’t fear getting ripped off.
    0:25:38 We’d have to see some kind of authority sign on and say, yes, this is legit.
    0:25:39 Why does money work?
    0:25:44 Money works because governments have agreed that this is how we’re going to do business and this is what its value is.
    0:25:49 And, you know, there’s a lot of social and institutional things that have to be in place before that thing could be.
    0:25:59 So what you can do then is start to do some experiments and you can say, okay, before I measure this whole global effect of crypto, let me see if I can use crypto at a lemonade stand.
    0:26:04 And if I can make that work, then maybe it’s got some possible applications after that, right?
    0:26:13 So I think the smart way of approaching these vast unknowns is to try to learn your way into them, but in small steps and with hypotheses that could be right or you could be wrong.
    0:26:15 Let me tell you something.
    0:26:21 If crypto succeeds, they used to say you’ll eat your hat, but that doesn’t work anymore.
    0:26:23 I will start using Windows computers.
    0:26:25 Oh, wow.
    0:26:26 That’s a penance.
    0:26:27 That is a penance.
    0:26:30 That is hell.
    0:26:32 Yes, yes, yes, yes.
    0:26:43 I would love to hear, speaking of hell, what are the predictive and telltale signs that your company is too stuck on the market?
    0:26:45 It’s not considering the arena.
    0:26:49 It’s not noticing the snow melting around the edges.
    0:26:53 What are the signs that I’m setting myself for a big failure?
    0:27:02 I think the first thing I would point to is that you don’t have a reliable, repeatable innovation proficiency.
    0:27:04 I think that’s the first thing.
    0:27:08 And so one of the early questions I always ask companies is tell me what your innovation governance process is.
    0:27:12 And, you know, eight times out of 10, I get what innovation governance process?
    0:27:13 There isn’t one.
    0:27:24 And you’ve kicked around enough companies to know what happens over time is the real core innovators eventually get outnumbered by the operators and the people that keep the wheels turning.
    0:27:26 And to some extent, that’s unavoidable as you scale.
    0:27:33 But what ends up happening is sometimes those folks just take the company and over-index it on just what’s working today.
    0:27:38 And if you think about it, that’s where their library is, that’s where their expertise is, that’s what they’re famous for.
    0:27:40 And the innovators often end up getting shut out.
    0:27:52 And the pleasures of having a reliable source of revenue today really outweigh the uncertainties of saying, maybe we should take some of that revenue and put it into something that’s uncertain but might tend us toward the future.
    0:28:00 So I think the big Uber theme is when you’re looking so hard at the market that you’ve got, and especially if things are going really well, what ends up happening is you end up like BlackBerry.
    0:28:01 That’s it.
    0:28:02 That’s the sign.
    0:28:05 There’s got to be more signs than that, Rita.
    0:28:06 Well, that’s the big one.
    0:28:07 That’s the one I look for.
    0:28:09 Maybe I’m just biased by that.
    0:28:16 I think others are that there’s too many layers and that the senior folks are not connected to what’s really going on in the markets.
    0:28:18 I have this image of them all looking at each other.
    0:28:24 They’re all talking to each other in their corner offices, and they’re not getting that input from what’s going on at the front lines.
    0:28:36 So if you look at what’s happening at Bayer right now, an 18-layer bureaucracy that their CEO is now trying to hack his way through to get at least a little bit more decision rights and a little bit more what’s going on.
    0:28:46 The other thing that I look at is when you look at the sort of percentage of time people are spending at work, how much of that is externally focused and how much of that is internally focused?
    0:28:57 Because if, again, over time companies accumulate these layers of stuff just to keep the wheels turning in the company, it doesn’t keep them focused on the external environment.
    0:29:08 And one of the things that’s a consequence of that, and I’m sure you’ll have seen this in your career, is the messages from outside get turned down and the messages from the hierarchy kind of get turned up.
    0:29:19 So more and more people in the company are doing what important people in the company think is valuable, and they’re not really as clued into what’s going on at the edges as I talk about in the book.
    0:29:33 And so that sort of sense of serving itself, when Lou Gerstner, very famously, came into IBM in one of its near-death experience moments, he said what he found was a whole circle of decision makers with their face pointed to the office of the CEO.
    0:29:40 And one of his famous sayings was, well, if your face is pointed to the office of the CEO, what part of your anatomy is pointed at the customer?
    0:29:48 Of all Gerstner’s quotes, that’s one of the most memorable to me.
    0:29:59 Okay, so maybe you’re not Lou Gerstner, and I hope people are old enough to know who Lou Gerstner is, but maybe it’s only me and you.
    0:30:03 I bet you Madison has no idea who Lou Gerstner is.
    0:30:08 We did interview Ginny Rometty on this show, the first female Lou Gerstner.
    0:30:20 But let’s say I’m running a 10,000-person organization, and you’ve convinced me, I’ve got to think of the arena, I’ve got to watch the snow melt, and I’ve got to watch my competition.
    0:30:24 I’ve got that, I take that whole checklist, but Rita, what do I do?
    0:30:28 I’ve got 30 senior VPs and executives around me.
    0:30:30 What do you want me to do?
    0:30:33 You want me to go to a Coachella music festival?
    0:30:37 What am I doing, actually, if I buy into your concept?
    0:30:49 Well, I think one of the things I’m observing with a lot of these digitally-oriented leadership teams that is different than you might have seen in a more industrial era is they’re quite broad spans of control.
    0:30:53 They’re not even called spans of control, but quite broad connections among people.
    0:31:04 So if you look at, for example, the way NVIDIA is run or the way Airbnb is being run by Brian Chesky, they’ll have leadership groups that could be 30, 40 people, and they spend a lot of time together.
    0:31:10 And they spend a lot of time looking at issues that are coming up at what I would call the edges.
    0:31:14 So Airbnb very famously recently broke apart their product management function.
    0:31:22 And so what they’ve got now is somebody, one set of people whose job is, by quarter three, this has to be delivered and shipped, and it’s got to be good quality, and it’s got to be compliant.
    0:31:24 So that’s what the product management job is.
    0:31:32 But there’s another parallel track, which is what’s going on in the outside world, and how do we think about plugging into our ecosystem, and how do we think about doing that?
    0:31:39 So what I’m seeing these leaders doing is spending a lot of time sense-making with the groups of people around them.
    0:31:44 And it’s not micromanaging, and I think this is where a lot of people get this wrong.
    0:31:46 It’s asking questions together.
    0:31:47 It’s sense-making together.
    0:31:53 It’s getting to a good decision, not by telling people what to do, but by saying, hey, if this is our objective, what are our options?
    0:32:00 What are the best ways we could go there, and how do we now collectively bring the organization along with us to do that?
    0:32:02 So I think it’s a different kind of leadership.
    0:32:19 And if you imagine a railroad or something, right, the classical mass market production company, those were run as hierarchies because the dominant competitive advantage in many of those sectors was you do mass market stuff incredibly well, really cheaply, and with levels of quality.
    0:32:23 So what you’re trying to do is you’re trying to drive out variability in the system as a leader.
    0:32:25 So that’s where command and control is very useful.
    0:32:27 That’s where having a well-owned bureaucracy is great.
    0:32:38 And if you’ve got a stable, growing market that you can count on, again, go back to my post-World War II example, if you were an appliance maker in 1955 in the U.S., you were going to sell every refrigerator that you could produce.
    0:32:46 And so the operating principle was do that very well, do it precisely, do it with quality, clean out all of human variation, and so forth.
    0:32:49 Digital companies are really different.
    0:32:50 Every day is different.
    0:32:51 Every day is changing.
    0:32:56 And what you need is almost a company that can adapt and morph as stimuli come from the environment.
    0:32:58 So it’s a different kind of leadership.
    0:33:05 So to come back to the short answer, you need to make time to really align your senior leadership team around your thought processes.
    0:33:08 You need to be very clear on what your purpose is, what your objectives are.
    0:33:13 The greater clarity you can bring to things, the more decisions can be made without you having to make them.
    0:33:14 I think that’s one big thing.
    0:33:23 And I think you need to leave space and time to take in information that may not seem at first to be important, but might well be.
    0:33:30 So one of my CEOs that I really admire is a guy named David Cody, who ran Honeywell for many years, 17 years.
    0:33:33 And what he used to do is he had X time, he called it.
    0:33:37 He would have a paper calendar and he would put a big X in his calendar proactively.
    0:33:43 And that time was for visiting plants, for talking to customers, for just thinking.
    0:33:48 And he made sure to put, I think he said, 25% of his personal time as a leader.
    0:33:52 I was in that kind of moment where he was making sense of things, not doing stuff.
    0:34:03 So I want to know, Rita, what is in the Rita McGrath Hall of Fame of Leading Indicators at a very tactical level?
    0:34:08 What are the leading indicators I should be watching for?
    0:34:14 Well, I think change in customer behavior or preferences is one that is very important.
    0:34:23 So if I take Estee Lauder, just as an example, three years ago, I was talking to them about the younger generation is looking at this whole idea of makeup very differently.
    0:34:24 They think differently about brands.
    0:34:27 They’re looking for authentic voices.
    0:34:31 The lady in the department store that chases you around with a perfume and it’s not the experience they want.
    0:34:39 And, you know, so you really need to be thinking about what are those customer segments and how are they changing?
    0:34:42 So if you look at Estee Lauder, they’re in deep, dark trouble right now.
    0:34:43 And yet, who’s on the upswing?
    0:34:45 It’s companies like ELF.
    0:34:46 It’s companies ultra makeup.
    0:34:57 And so the leading indicator is once you start to see small behavioral changes in what your customers are looking to accomplish with you, that to me is always a big kind of blaring, whoa, whoa, whoa, pay attention to this.
    0:35:01 And a lot of companies have set themselves up so that they miss those signals.
    0:35:03 They just don’t, they don’t see them.
    0:35:05 So changing customer behavior would be a really uber one.
    0:35:10 Second one is a change in the fundamental basics of what holds your business together.
    0:35:24 So if I take a company like Gillette, right, and they had, and you are asking about durable competitive advantages, these guys had a 70-year, 70% market share dominant position because making razors at scale is really hard.
    0:35:25 They had a lot of patents.
    0:35:27 They invested a lot of R&D into it.
    0:35:30 And then other companies that kind of looked at it went, oh, too difficult.
    0:35:31 We’ll just leave Gillette there.
    0:35:33 So they had this great business model.
    0:35:36 It was invest in R&D, allows us to make better products.
    0:35:40 We can then use our armies of people to get those products into the retail channels.
    0:35:43 And it worked like a clockwork for decades and decades.
    0:35:53 But, right, just as an idea of proportion, when Procter & Gamble bought Gillette in 2005, they paid $57 billion for it.
    0:36:00 When Unilever bought Dollar Shave Club in 2016, so not that long later, they paid a billion for it.
    0:36:03 And, you know, with Dollar Shave Club, what was it?
    0:36:06 It was razors made by a Korean manufacturer.
    0:36:12 But what they did was they took all the infrastructure that Gillette had built around mass market advertising and brand building and all that stuff.
    0:36:15 And they said, no, we can use YouTube for that.
    0:36:16 We can use Facebook for that.
    0:36:17 We don’t have to buy servers.
    0:36:18 We’ll just run our stuff on the cloud.
    0:36:24 At the time they started, which was in 2012, I believe, you could buy off-the-shelf e-commerce software at that point.
    0:36:27 There was no need to hire programmers and do all that stuff.
    0:36:34 So another big sort of inflection point is when the cost of doing the same thing shifts by an order of magnitude because of what’s now possible.
    0:36:37 My ears perk up when I see something like that happening.
    0:36:45 I’m so glad that I’m the podcaster, not the CEO.
    0:36:49 It’s so hard to be a CEO these days.
    0:36:56 Well, you know, what’s interesting, too, is there’s this whole new trend about Gen Z people not wanting to take managerial jobs.
    0:36:57 I think that’s fascinating.
    0:37:02 Well, I’m a baby boomer, and I don’t want to take a managerial jobs.
    0:37:05 I think you saved your dues like that.
    0:37:12 In a sense, the bigger picture you were talking about is, Rita, how do I keep my company agile?
    0:37:14 Good news, bad news.
    0:37:15 Good news, we’re successful.
    0:37:16 We’re growing.
    0:37:18 We have lots of cash, blah, blah, blah.
    0:37:21 Bad news is we’re growing.
    0:37:22 We’re successful.
    0:37:23 We have lots of cash.
    0:37:26 What’s the Rita McGrath agility plan?
    0:37:33 Well, I think it really starts with the agenda of the CEO, and it’s almost that simple.
    0:37:41 It’s like if you don’t have innovation in the future as item number one, two, or three, literally on your agenda, which is what do you talk about in meetings?
    0:37:43 What meetings do you go to?
    0:37:44 Who do you meet with?
    0:37:52 If it’s not in that top bucket of priorities, then you’re very much at risk of eventually the success formula runs out and you become obsolete.
    0:37:57 So if you think about Goodnight that founded the Zas Institute, they were big data before big data was big data.
    0:38:03 Every Tuesday, he and his senior team got together to talk about what the next innovation was going to be.
    0:38:12 Now, a lot of other stuff happened behind the scenes at that company, consistently ranked best place to work, incredibly high employee retention, beautiful campus, great lifestyle.
    0:38:14 I mean, it was a lot of other supporting stuff.
    0:38:18 But every Tuesday, without fail, and everybody in the company knew it.
    0:38:20 So it was literally on the agenda.
    0:38:25 And with a lot of companies, I find CEOs come in and they’re just all about exploiting.
    0:38:32 But if you just do a STEM education, those skills go obsolete.
    0:38:34 Technology changes all the time.
    0:38:39 So unless you’re continually bringing yourself to the cutting edge of whatever it is you’re in, you’re going to get obsolete.
    0:38:44 Whereas the liberal arts folks, OK, so they spend their first three years standing by the copy machine.
    0:38:53 But it’s the soft skills, the political skills, the ability to influence people, sort of sensing what’s going on in the organization, that as you get more senior, you become more rewarded.
    0:38:57 And I think that’s an interesting thing to reflect on when you think about what are we educating kids for?
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    0:40:04 You’re listening to Remarkable People with Guy Kawasaki.
    0:40:10 I want to really shift gears on you, Riva.
    0:40:17 So let’s pretend that the United States is an organization.
    0:40:33 And I want to know from your kind of perspective, is the United States focusing too much on its competition, if you consider that Russia or China, or is it not looking at its customers enough?
    0:40:43 If you were to do an assessment of the United States, what would you say to this company called the United States about what it’s doing right now?
    0:40:47 I think, and we’re back to how do you center an organization.
    0:41:01 And really since the end of World War II, the U.S. made a very conscious decision that it was going to be Pax Americana, that it would pay to have other countries within our sphere of influence.
    0:41:18 And if that meant supporting Europe militarily, if that meant forging these very tight trade bonds, whatever that was, there was a very clear idea that America was going to take over from, if you think about the economies prior to, call it prior to the Second World War.
    0:41:23 So, you know, America was up there, but a lot of other countries were very, very influential as well.
    0:41:24 I mean, China was really nowhere.
    0:41:25 India was nowhere.
    0:41:29 So you have really European countries that were quite dominant.
    0:41:35 And after World War II, America made a very conscious decision that we’re going to be at the center of this fulcrum.
    0:41:40 And the Marshall Plan, we’re going to spend money to rebuild our competition.
    0:41:41 Imagine that, right?
    0:41:51 We’re going to spend money in Japan to not only help them recover, but we’re going to create a whole new governmental system, which is a democracy that was unheard of before.
    0:41:56 So the decision was very consciously to be at the center of an ecosystem.
    0:42:04 And with the financial and other burdens that meant, that implied, because we said, look, if we do this well, we’re going to generate a lot of wealth.
    0:42:09 And some of that wealth is going to have to go into creating the ecosystem, protecting the ecosystem.
    0:42:12 And where I think we are now is a couple of things.
    0:42:19 The old ecosystem, petroleum, highways, suburbs, appliances, all that stuff, is starting to lose its power.
    0:42:24 It’s starting to not be able to deliver the same productivity gains that we’ve gotten accustomed to.
    0:42:27 And the new ecosystem, we’re not sure what that looks like.
    0:42:36 And where I think America’s been really smart is having a fairly light regulatory touch relative to, say, Europe, in things like digital.
    0:42:39 Well, there’s a reason so many of the tech giants come from America.
    0:42:44 So I think it’s done a good job kind of supporting entrepreneurship, entrepreneurialism.
    0:42:48 People come from all over the world to go to our schools and start our businesses.
    0:42:53 Now, where that goes at risk is if we’re not continuing to make investments in the universities,
    0:43:06 if we mess up the entrepreneurial ecosystems that have emerged because of inconsistent policies that make it very hard to have confidence in what the next set of business decisions are going to make, that could be very dangerous.
    0:43:15 So I think we’re on the brink of seeing is you certainly got China wanting to supplant the U.S. as that sort of dominant player.
    0:43:17 You’ve got the U.S. not really wanting to give up its position.
    0:43:22 You’ve got the other large countries rattling their chains about protectionism.
    0:43:28 And this free trade assumption that we’ve been operating under for quite a long time is now being up for grabs.
    0:43:36 So if I were and I’m not a particularly political person, but I would be inclined to say, let’s understand what are the incentives we’re creating.
    0:43:41 And I’ll draw here on the work of a wonderful late economist called William Baumol.
    0:43:50 And what Baumol said is if you think about the structure of incentives that you’re creating in your society, and that could be your society, that could be your company, that could be your team.
    0:43:51 There are three kinds, right?
    0:43:54 There’s productive incentives where you’re rewarding productive entrepreneurship.
    0:43:57 People can win big.
    0:44:00 People who seek to better themselves start a company.
    0:44:01 It succeeds.
    0:44:02 That’s what they’re driven to do.
    0:44:03 That’s productive entrepreneurship.
    0:44:04 It’s creating value.
    0:44:06 Then you’ve got what you can think of as unproductive entrepreneurship.
    0:44:14 So if I were to compare Bill Gates and Warren Buffett as an example, right, you could make the argument that Warren Buffett just moves value around.
    0:44:20 Like he’s a brilliant, brilliant investor, but he’s not inventing the next generation of software that’s going to put a computer on every desk.
    0:44:21 That’s a different thing.
    0:44:22 That’s not bad.
    0:44:23 It doesn’t create new value.
    0:44:26 Then you’ve got destructive entrepreneurship.
    0:44:39 And destructive entrepreneurship happens when you have a set of incentives that reward things like gangs, that reward drug smuggling, that reward cybercrime, that reward scams.
    0:44:49 And if you imagine that the level of entrepreneurial talent you have in any society is about the same, your structure of incentives is going to determine where that talent gets applied.
    0:44:52 So why is it we have so many scammers from Eastern Europe?
    0:44:57 Because there’s no place for them to use those skills except in illicit activities.
    0:45:07 So if I were to think about doing a real analysis of the U.S., I’d really want to be thinking through, for the different sectors of the society we’re trying to create, what in fact is the structure of incentives?
    0:45:17 Because historically, where the U.S. has really excelled is individualism, entrepreneurship, being willing to start stuff, being willing to take risks, being to some extent tolerant to failure.
    0:45:19 We love a comeback story.
    0:45:23 We love it when somebody’s screwed up and then gets rescued and then eventually triumphs.
    0:45:25 And a lot of parts of the world, that would never happen.
    0:45:26 That would not be enough.
    0:45:29 So I think there’s a lot that we have that’s really strong.
    0:45:33 I just don’t think we’ve been clear-headed enough about what it is we’re trying to drive here.
    0:45:41 If we love a comeback story, we’re certainly setting ourselves up for the necessity of a comeback story, let’s just say.
    0:45:44 I wish we wouldn’t have to come back so far.
    0:45:46 So let’s say it’s 20 years.
    0:45:49 Let’s say it’s 100 years from now.
    0:45:53 What will historians say, well, the United States was just blindsided.
    0:45:59 It was like digital cameras blindsided Kodak.
    0:46:04 But, you know, the U.S. could have been Kodak or it could have been Fuji, but it stayed Kodak.
    0:46:10 What ended the American century, if you can put yourself in a place like to look back?
    0:46:12 So let’s say there are different scenarios, right?
    0:46:16 So one scenario would be American century ends and what caused that.
    0:46:19 But there are other scenarios I’d want to think about.
    0:46:20 What ended it?
    0:46:29 I’d say not making fundamental investments in the core human capital that we depend on for innovation and growth.
    0:46:34 And here I’m thinking of public education, health care, housing.
    0:46:41 If you look at inflation in those sectors, they’re all much more expensive and much less quality than they have been historically.
    0:46:51 So if we were to blow it, I would say we did not really build that human capital that would need to be successful in the future.
    0:46:52 That’s where I would start.
    0:46:55 So an interesting counter example would be a country like Ireland.
    0:46:57 So if you think about Ireland, what does Ireland have?
    0:46:57 Nothing.
    0:46:58 It’s got people.
    0:46:58 That’s about it.
    0:47:00 It’s this tiny little country.
    0:47:09 And after the Second World War, they made very conscious decisions about providing really high quality education to a very large young population of young people.
    0:47:15 And they made a very clear decision to be an open country and to attract foreign direct investment.
    0:47:17 So they were very strategic about that.
    0:47:22 So I think part of our issue is if you think of us as an organization, first of all, we think always of the federal government.
    0:47:25 We keep forgetting it’s the United States.
    0:47:27 So we have 50 flavors of everything here.
    0:47:31 So the good news about that is it fosters experimentation and it can be good for innovation.
    0:47:34 But the bad news is it’s very hard to get everybody moving in the same direction.
    0:47:39 And so that’s where the federal government perhaps can provide some leadership.
    0:47:45 But education, human capital, if you start ignoring those things, that’s really the beginning of the end.
    0:47:53 I cannot make the case that I believe that the United States is investing in education when it closes the Department of Education.
    0:47:55 How do you put two and two together there?
    0:48:02 I think part of what is constructive and, you know, I mean, I have a lot of I’m in New York, right?
    0:48:03 So I have a lot of friends that are liberal leaning.
    0:48:08 And yet if you get them in a quiet corner and sort of say, well, so what do you think of what’s going on?
    0:48:15 I literally had a very, very oat crunchy, barefoot lefty saying, well, the Department of Education did need reform.
    0:48:22 So part of what I struggle with is clearly we need to rethink how we’re educating young people.
    0:48:33 And I think one of the promising things about AI is we now have a platform which perhaps could help us open some really interesting ways of helping people gain skill and knowledge.
    0:48:37 But I think we need a way of looking at that that isn’t wedded to our current system.
    0:48:38 So what’s our current system built on?
    0:48:49 Our current system was built in the 1800s to basically create a knowledgeable enough society to work in factories, to work agrarian models and stuff like that.
    0:48:53 And so the idea of basic literacy was that was what we were trying to achieve.
    0:48:56 So our goals for education today are quite different.
    0:48:58 We need people who have soft skills.
    0:48:59 We need people who can reason.
    0:49:02 We need people who can think through prompts.
    0:49:08 We need people who can not just do calculations, but actually become the directors and guides of the future.
    0:49:11 It was a really interesting study I ran across just a couple of days ago.
    0:49:18 And those researchers were looking at the career prospects of people studying STEM, so science, technology, engineering and math,
    0:49:20 as opposed to liberal arts.
    0:49:26 And what they found was in terms of earnings, the first few years, the STEM people nailed it.
    0:49:26 They were great.
    0:49:31 But then at about five to 10 years in, the liberal arts people started to overtake them.
    0:49:37 And the hypothesis behind this research, which validated at that point, was that in the early years of your career,
    0:49:40 you’re kind of rewarded and promoted for what you can do.
    0:49:44 But if you just do a STEM education, those skills go obsolete.
    0:49:46 Technology changes all the time.
    0:49:51 So unless you’re continually bringing yourself to the cutting edge of whatever it is you’re in, you’re going to get obsolete.
    0:49:56 Whereas the liberal arts folks, OK, so they spend their first three years standing by the copy machine.
    0:50:00 But it’s the soft skills, the political skills, the ability to influence people,
    0:50:05 sort of sensing what’s going on in the organization, that as you get more senior, become more rewarded.
    0:50:10 And I think that’s an interesting thing you reflect on when you think about, what are we educating kids for?
    0:50:19 I’ve heard this theory and it’s hard to argue against a really robust STEM education system,
    0:50:30 but it is also hard to argue against a system of empathy and a system of social psychology and behavioral economics and all that.
    0:50:32 Ultimately, that’s what it comes down to, right?
    0:50:41 Well, if you think about what’s going to get automated, and I’m not an AI expert, but it’s pretty astonishing some of the things that are being automated right now.
    0:50:46 But the people that are really taking great loops forward are people who are already experts.
    0:50:49 So they’re using the technology to enhance their capability.
    0:50:53 And I think we have some big questions about where do the younger people get their training?
    0:50:58 If the AI is writing all the press releases, where does the intern get their training and how to do that?
    0:51:01 So I think we’ve got some really interesting skill questions coming up.
    0:51:07 So you must get this question quite often from CEOs you’re talking to, which is,
    0:51:12 Rita, how do I prepare my organization for an AI world?
    0:51:17 Yeah, I think the way to do it is to do it.
    0:51:19 You have to get people using the technology.
    0:51:21 You have to have them experimenting.
    0:51:25 AI right now, to me, is just such an interesting example.
    0:51:27 Go back to inflection points, right?
    0:51:30 We definitely have been through like hype, hype, hype, hype, hype.
    0:51:33 And there’s a whole bunch of people saying, oh, AI, it’s never going to be anything.
    0:51:35 People saying, oh, it’s going to save me costs.
    0:51:36 It’s going to save me this.
    0:51:40 A lot of that just hasn’t come true yet because we’re still at the early stages of doing it.
    0:51:47 So my advice would be set up some experimental time, encourage people to try stuff out, share
    0:51:50 what they’re learning, give people time to experiment.
    0:51:55 The thing that I think prevents people from picking up new skills or picking up new capabilities
    0:51:59 is that they’re under such time pressure in many, many roles that they just don’t feel
    0:52:01 they have the time or the permission to learn.
    0:52:05 And what I think we need to embed in companies is this learning permission.
    0:52:10 So one of the projects I worked with was with Fidelity Private Insurance, private investment.
    0:52:13 And they decided to go to a really different way of working.
    0:52:16 We would think of that as lean, agile, however you want to call that.
    0:52:21 But they really reformatted their organization, formatted around the customer rather than their
    0:52:25 products and broke people into these small teams where every team had everything it needed
    0:52:30 to accomplish, say, an update to the website or whatever, and started working in shorter
    0:52:30 chunks.
    0:52:32 So breaking down the bureaucracy, doing things very differently.
    0:52:38 But one of the things they did as well as all this was they said every Tuesday, it’s a
    0:52:38 learning day.
    0:52:40 So that could be book learning.
    0:52:42 It could be an online course.
    0:52:45 It could be you go off and get yourself educated at a place like Columbia.
    0:52:48 It could be spending a day doing a ride by ride with the customer.
    0:52:49 But you block off that time.
    0:52:51 That is not time to be doing your job.
    0:52:53 That is time to be learning something new.
    0:52:57 And I think that’s a model that we’re going to see more and more forward thinking companies
    0:52:57 adopt.
    0:52:59 That’s great.
    0:52:59 That’s great.
    0:53:01 So this is my last question.
    0:53:06 So now that we solve the problems for the United States and we solve the problems for
    0:53:11 all these large companies, let’s say that I’m listening to this and I want to know how do
    0:53:20 I, a person, not a company, not a CEO, for my own personal career, my own personal benefit,
    0:53:27 my own personal development, how do I, as a person, see around corners?
    0:53:28 Great question.
    0:53:30 You need to make the time for it.
    0:53:33 And I think that’s the first watchword.
    0:53:37 Even if it’s just a couple of hours a week, stop with the treadmill, stop with the to-do lists,
    0:53:41 take a step back and say, what are some things I should be paying attention to?
    0:53:43 For me personal, that might matter to me.
    0:53:44 So that’s one.
    0:53:51 Second is, I think people struggle with feeling powerless and feeling like they couldn’t possibly
    0:53:51 make a difference.
    0:53:57 And yet, if you think about it, there are things in your community, in your surroundings, in
    0:54:01 your world that you can elect to make a difference in.
    0:54:07 So, you know, there was a great story about a retired couple that retired to a community,
    0:54:08 which was not a retirement community.
    0:54:11 And when they got there, they noticed that there were no real walking.
    0:54:13 The area was beautiful and full of woods and everything.
    0:54:18 And so they decided to start a walking trail club and people that were interested, they had
    0:54:19 regular meetings.
    0:54:24 And then what started to happen was people who were artisans had skills that were able
    0:54:25 to make these trails happen.
    0:54:28 People who were carpenters, people who were gardeners.
    0:54:32 They started this little mini movement and today there are walking trails where there weren’t
    0:54:33 any before.
    0:54:40 And so I think giving yourself a sense of agency with whatever it is you care about is, first
    0:54:41 of all, it’s an antidote to despair.
    0:54:46 I think all of us sometimes feel like we’re just too insignificant to make a difference.
    0:54:51 But finding something that you care about and that you think you can make an impact in with
    0:54:54 the people that are fellow travelers that are like you.
    0:54:57 And so, you know, Guy, you talk about planting oak trees, right?
    0:54:59 You’re not doing that alone, right?
    0:55:03 There’s people that are interested in this for the long term.
    0:55:08 And so I think thinking about how you can create some agency and some ownership with
    0:55:11 yourself and with the people who you draw into your community, I think that’s a really
    0:55:17 super way of helping yourself feel that you’ve got connection to something that matters.
    0:55:25 You mentioned in your book what I thought was a really clever idea, which is to write the
    0:55:26 article.
    0:55:30 So this is the last, I promise you, this is the last question.
    0:55:37 And tell me why writing an article about yourself is a good idea.
    0:55:38 Yeah.
    0:55:43 So what that idea is, is to say, and it was put in a business context, but you could do
    0:55:44 it in a personal context, too.
    0:55:47 You say, OK, it’s five years from now or 10 years from now, you pick.
    0:55:49 But sometime in the future.
    0:55:51 And there’s an article being written about you.
    0:55:54 So if it’s a business context, it’s like cover of Fortune magazine.
    0:55:57 If it’s a more personal context, maybe it’s USA Today.
    0:56:02 But somebody is writing about you and what they are writing with great admiration about
    0:56:03 is what did you accomplish?
    0:56:06 What were the critical decisions you made along the way?
    0:56:07 Who did you bring with you?
    0:56:10 What happened to your family while you were doing all these great things?
    0:56:13 And what are the lessons the rest of us could learn?
    0:56:17 And if you really force yourself to do that and take it seriously, what you will uncover
    0:56:20 in that process is what really are your values?
    0:56:21 What is it that you care about?
    0:56:24 What is the impact you want to have in the world?
    0:56:27 How do you want to think about that and who should be in that picture?
    0:56:28 For example, are you ignoring your family?
    0:56:32 Are you not paying attention to what is the useful thing?
    0:56:33 In a way, it’s very similar.
    0:56:34 And I’ll come back to Clay again.
    0:56:39 He had a wonderful speech book series of articles called How Will You Measure Your Life?
    0:56:44 And the way he kicks off that book is by talking about coming back to successive Harvard
    0:56:45 NBA reunions.
    0:56:48 And the fifth reunion, everybody’s doing great.
    0:56:49 They’re all masters of the universe.
    0:56:51 Tenth reunion, we’re all some cracks are starting to show.
    0:56:55 Twentieth reunion, we’ve got divorces, we’ve got people from their kids.
    0:57:00 And he said, was that their strategy to get divorced and be estranged from their kids?
    0:57:00 No.
    0:57:04 But they never took that time, which is what I’m recommending you do in the article, to
    0:57:07 really think through what would be satisfying for me.
    0:57:10 And I’m not saying make me happy necessarily, but what do I think would be fulfilling and
    0:57:14 satisfying and meaningful in that period going forward?
    0:57:21 Not to be morbid or anything, but I think every day about what people will say in my obituary.
    0:57:22 Oh, do you?
    0:57:28 Seriously, I want people to say that I empowered people with my podcasting, my writing, my speaking,
    0:57:31 my investing, my advising.
    0:57:33 All righty, Rita McGrath.
    0:57:36 Thank you very much for a most remarkable interview.
    0:57:41 And we’re going to just have a little sign off here and then we’re going to let you go.
    0:57:42 And thank you very much.
    0:57:45 And please come visit us in San Francisco if you’re here.
    0:57:46 I’d love to.
    0:57:50 I’m going to be out there with a very large tech company that we both know and love a couple
    0:57:50 of times.
    0:57:52 So perhaps I’ll give you a ring.
    0:57:53 Please do.
    0:57:54 Please do.
    0:57:54 All right.
    0:57:57 So this is the end of this episode of Remarkable People.
    0:58:01 And as you’ve heard, we’ve had the remarkable Rita McGrath.
    0:58:08 And now you learned about strategy and implementation and inflection and all these I words.
    0:58:10 And what a wonderful episode.
    0:58:11 Thank you very much.
    0:58:15 I’m going to go write an article about myself right now and see what it comes out.
    0:58:22 So I just want to thank Madison Nismer, the future titan of industry, her sister Tessa Nismer,
    0:58:24 Jeff C. and Shannon Hernandez.
    0:58:27 And this is the Remarkable People team.
    0:58:29 And we’re on a mission to make you remarkable.
    0:58:33 And someday you look back and you say, I heard Guy and Rita.
    0:58:35 And that was a turning point in my life.
    0:58:38 Yeah, that would be very satisfying.
    0:58:40 Thank you, Rita.
    0:58:41 Take care.
    0:58:42 You too.
    0:58:42 Thanks very much.
    0:58:48 This is Remarkable People.

    Is there such a thing as a sustainable competitive advantage anymore? Step into the strategic mind of Rita McGrath, one of the foremost thinkers in innovation and strategy. In this eye-opening conversation, the Columbia Business School professor challenges conventional thinking about market disruption, inflection points, and how organizations can stay agile in rapidly changing environments. From dissecting the true story behind Kodak’s downfall to examining what makes companies like Apple thrive, Rita reveals how business leaders can anticipate change before it’s too late. Discover why focusing solely on your competition might be your biggest strategic mistake and why understanding your “arena” rather than your market could be the key to future success.

    Guy Kawasaki is on a mission to make you remarkable. His Remarkable People podcast features interviews with remarkable people such as Jane Goodall, Marc Benioff, Woz, Kristi Yamaguchi, and Bob Cialdini. Every episode will make you more remarkable.

    With his decades of experience in Silicon Valley as a Venture Capitalist and advisor to the top entrepreneurs in the world, Guy’s questions come from a place of curiosity and passion for technology, start-ups, entrepreneurship, and marketing. If you love society and culture, documentaries, and business podcasts, take a second to follow Remarkable People.

    Listeners of the Remarkable People podcast will learn from some of the most successful people in the world with practical tips and inspiring stories that will help you be more remarkable.

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